**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 22 02:59:58 2010 Feb 22 07:31:05 cd .. Feb 22 07:31:09 Oops Feb 22 07:31:43 www.search2.net Feb 22 07:49:01 http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-February/000014.html Feb 22 07:49:16 "The aim is to have only one official API based on Qt and Web Runtime." Feb 22 07:52:41 nice freudian slip there too ;-) "In order to be successfuk, MeeGo needs to make life easy both for app Feb 22 07:52:41 developers and device vendors." Feb 22 07:53:08 k is very close to l ;) Feb 22 07:53:18 Stskeeps, Freud used Dvorak Feb 22 07:53:32 * villemv is on dvorak as well Feb 22 07:53:32 okay, I made that up Feb 22 07:53:36 not on my n900 though Feb 22 07:53:45 villemv, friends keep telling me I should, but I haven't taken the plunge... Feb 22 07:54:08 jaem: you need a short holiday for that Feb 22 07:54:23 I took the plunge on a winter holiday Feb 22 08:39:17 NEED PEOPLE FOR A (WHITEHAT) SEO DEVELOPMENT TEAM!! WWW.BINGSEOFORUM.COM + WWW.BARELYLEGAL.COM Feb 22 08:39:28 #xbox720 on EFNET Feb 22 08:39:36 #xbox720 on EFNET Feb 22 08:44:28 do any actual developers use meego-dev for actual development? or is it just for the "app developers" Feb 22 08:45:15 ali1234: a significant number of developers are reading it Feb 22 08:45:51 related: when qgil says things like "We will be able to answer with precision this question once we have a first release out since both Harmattan and MeeGo are being fine tuned still." - where is this work taking place? Feb 22 08:46:02 robsta: but why are they reading it? Feb 22 08:46:25 the question is not "are they reading it?" but "are they using it to openly discuss the development of meego?" Feb 22 08:46:27 ali1234: harmattan work is being done in nokia offices and contract offices :) Feb 22 08:46:37 ali1234: 'no' :) Feb 22 08:46:49 * timeless_mbp is using irc to discuss meego Feb 22 08:47:05 timeless_mbp: i don't understand your question i'm afraid Feb 22 08:47:06 discussing stuff on a list w/ 1000 people is stupid Feb 22 08:47:15 it works for lkml Feb 22 08:47:29 robsta: if you are accidentally signed up for spam Feb 22 08:47:31 imagine if linus & co did everything through private emails Feb 22 08:47:36 you're reading the spam because someone signed you up for it Feb 22 08:47:41 not because you really want to Feb 22 08:47:44 developers are reading it to answer serious technical questions that come up, Feb 22 08:47:58 WWW.WINDOWS.COM Feb 22 08:48:06 dude I got an HP Feb 22 08:48:08 timeless_mbp: this does obviously not include things like rpm vs deb Feb 22 08:48:15 dude I got a HewellPackard Feb 22 08:48:30 www.bing.com Feb 22 08:48:30 dude: you can't spell Feb 22 08:48:34 www.bing.com Feb 22 08:48:41 * timeless_mbp rotfl Feb 22 08:49:13 * rwhitby wonders what the number of users threshold is for the spam-bots Feb 22 08:49:41 fwiw, a bot eventually killed claviceps Feb 22 08:50:33 bot on bot violence Feb 22 08:50:36 tsk. tsk. Feb 22 08:50:54 lucent: well, it means fewer humans lose fewer limbs Feb 22 08:51:06 but it ends with SkyNet Feb 22 08:51:10 (or even use fewer limbs/digits) Feb 22 08:51:25 rwhitby: yeah, but that's our children's generation's problem :) Feb 22 08:51:37 Morning Feb 22 08:55:04 ali1234, timeless_mbp: obviously you have to make yourself known with good work before people will listen, just as with any sane foss project Feb 22 08:55:20 robsta: once again, that is not the question i am asking Feb 22 08:55:50 ali1234: from my side, i'm pretty i can confidently say 'no' Feb 22 08:55:59 robsta: on "open" projects, developer discussions are done on public mailing lists Feb 22 08:56:09 and i claim bollocks on the lkml counter argument Feb 22 08:56:15 robsta: that does not mean they aren't moderated, but anyone is free to read them Feb 22 08:56:41 lkml has only one subject (kernel) Feb 22 08:57:01 and a much more focussed audience / membership / active contributors Feb 22 08:57:26 timeless_mbp: ok then, compare ubuntu-devel Feb 22 08:57:33 ali1234: better example Feb 22 08:57:41 does it do something? does it work? Feb 22 08:57:57 they discuss what will be done in the next release for the whole world to see Feb 22 08:58:11 does that include api discussions? Feb 22 08:58:19 it includes everything Feb 22 08:58:25 and it works? Feb 22 08:58:33 well, ubuntu seems pretty popular Feb 22 08:58:36 * timeless_mbp asks incredulously Feb 22 08:58:49 they also post minutes from irc meetings Feb 22 08:58:53 just because foo is popular doesn't mean that foo-bar works or is the reason that foo is popular Feb 22 08:58:54 *everything* is public Feb 22 08:59:12 firefox is popular, but not everything that is done for firefox works out properly Feb 22 09:00:41 the question is not "does it work?" but "can you seriously call meego 'open' without making a lot more of the internal process public?" Feb 22 09:01:09 ali1234: ah Feb 22 09:01:18 you're asserting there's a process at all Feb 22 09:01:21 let alone an internal process Feb 22 09:01:39 meego is an announcement, of plans to do something Feb 22 09:01:49 it will be open once enough pieces are in place Feb 22 09:01:50 well, whenever anyone asks a serious question the answer is always "we're working on it" but i don't *see* anyone working on it Feb 22 09:01:53 until then, it's just that Feb 22 09:02:13 * timeless_mbp ponders Feb 22 09:02:26 do you remember no-name-yet? Feb 22 09:02:52 no Feb 22 09:03:05 look it up :) Feb 22 09:03:37 ali1234: how long did it take for redhat to come out with fedora and be really open? i really think you should be a bit more patient Feb 22 09:04:12 was it more or less than 3 years? Feb 22 09:05:23 ali1234: redhat founded 1993, fedora 2003 Feb 22 09:06:03 i am not talking about openness of code, but openness of process Feb 22 09:06:17 i know that is what i'm saying Feb 22 09:06:23 apart from anything else, red hat code was open long before fedora Feb 22 09:06:37 meego code is open now too Feb 22 09:06:42 fedora is really just "get the community to bug test for us for free" Feb 22 09:06:50 but governance and everything takes time to set up Feb 22 09:07:20 and should be documented Feb 22 09:07:36 to be fair, very few groups are able to to open source transitions quickly Feb 22 09:07:42 netscape was relatively good w/ mozilla Feb 22 09:07:55 and sun hasn't been too bad w/ solaris and was pretty good w/ netbeans Feb 22 09:08:02 sun wasn't great w/ java or openoffice Feb 22 09:08:11 symbian is definitely on the slow side Feb 22 09:08:22 (and yes, i've dabbled in all of these) Feb 22 09:08:26 ali1234: Fedora is where the innovation for RHEL happens ;-) Feb 22 09:08:52 Last time I met with RHEL "innovation" it took a third of my PhD thesis Feb 22 09:09:14 So, I hope you understand why I do not see RHEL innovation as a feature Feb 22 09:09:14 RST38h: eh? Feb 22 09:10:41 where'd the rumor that meego is slated to use RPM package management, what's that about exactly? Feb 22 09:10:57 lucent: moblin uses rpm, meego will use rpm Feb 22 09:10:58 RST38h: that was not what I said .... I said that the innovation happens in Fedora, and is then moved over to RHEL Feb 22 09:10:59 Is moblin using RPM-package management and it trickles down to meego Feb 22 09:11:01 oh okay Feb 22 09:11:14 ali1234: no chance for deb then hm? Feb 22 09:11:19 lucent: no Feb 22 09:11:38 lucent: given the choice between moblin's version of rpm and maemo's broken version of deb, i pick rpm any day Feb 22 09:12:00 rpm is also part of LSB :) Feb 22 09:12:04 yeah I think people take it personally but I'm just interested in the lineage here Feb 22 09:12:09 answers my question perfectly :) Feb 22 09:12:36 lucent: it's in the FAQ Feb 22 09:12:40 next time, please read it :) Feb 22 09:12:46 * lucent /topic's Feb 22 09:13:00 dazo: That was RH Enterprise Edition. With corporate support, which installed a cutting edge kernel that did not like NFS, document gone. Feb 22 09:13:23 dazo: I can only imagine how well Fedora works, if RHEL Enterprise can do something like that Feb 22 09:13:29 actually there's something better in the wiki about it Feb 22 09:13:39 RST38h: i installed F12 yesterday and package management was broken ootb Feb 22 09:13:51 so, yeah, fedora sucks Feb 22 09:13:52 ali1234: nice Feb 22 09:13:56 otoh Feb 22 09:14:11 i spent some time yesterday w/ a team who had managed to break ubuntu package installation terribly Feb 22 09:14:18 /usr/share/doc was a file instead of a directory Feb 22 09:14:27 there were a couple of other similar critters Feb 22 09:14:30 very impressive Feb 22 09:14:38 also, timeless_mbp the reference to moblin using rpm and it being superior to maemo's deb, that is not listed in the FAQ? Feb 22 09:14:39 ubuntu was totally unhappy Feb 22 09:14:44 anything can be broken Feb 22 09:14:47 lucent: there's a second faq for that Feb 22 09:14:50 ali1234: Updating Python on Centos kill the packaging system dead. Feb 22 09:14:55 it takes a special kind of retardation to ship it in a broken state Feb 22 09:14:56 I missed the second faq then Feb 22 09:15:17 timeless_mbp: would you enlighten me? Feb 22 09:15:17 ali1234: Apparently, the gus are so cutting edge that they forgot to keep a "safe" copy of the original Python with which packaging works Feb 22 09:15:27 * timeless_mbp grumbles Feb 22 09:15:32 * timeless_mbp kicks meego search Feb 22 09:15:33 RST38h: I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences ... I mostly find RHEL (and even CentOS) a lot more stable .... but Fedora is a more fast moving target, where things might not always work as well ... but which RHEL version was that? Of course, nobody is perfect and errors can happen ... but with RHEL you should have possibility for good support and get it resolved reasonably quickly Feb 22 09:15:51 robsta: ok how the **** does one search the meego wiki? Feb 22 09:16:17 nice Feb 22 09:16:18 http://wiki.meego.com/index.php?title=Rpm&action=edit Feb 22 09:16:24 trying to *search* for something gives me: Feb 22 09:16:31 dazo: I do not remember. Have not been sysadmining for money for years now Feb 22 09:16:34 Permission error [pagediscussion] Feb 22 09:16:34 You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reasons: Feb 22 09:17:02 nice Feb 22 09:17:03 http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging Feb 22 09:17:07 * timeless_mbp sighs Feb 22 09:17:10 dazo: When I was a sysadmin, we had a FreeBSD box. And RedHat went into kernel panic any time gethostbyname() failed, if I remember correctly Feb 22 09:17:11 thank you timeless_mbp Feb 22 09:17:16 whichever stupid wiki meego is using is well... stupid Feb 22 09:17:43 timeless_mbp: Standard mediawiki. Feb 22 09:17:57 lucent: be warned: that document was written by a Frenchman Feb 22 09:18:00 X-Fade: Autobuilder. Dput fails. Feb 22 09:18:02 using french whitespace style Feb 22 09:18:09 X-Fade: SSH authentication again, it seems. Feb 22 09:18:09 please feel free to correct the document Feb 22 09:18:23 what is french whitespace style?? Feb 22 09:18:24 (French includes random superfluous whitespace around punctuation) Feb 22 09:18:25 RST38h: using drop? Feb 22 09:18:28 timeless_mbp: If I wanted military victories... ;) Feb 22 09:18:39 X-Fade: no, standard Feb 22 09:18:46 RST38h: use drop.maemo.org Feb 22 09:18:54 RST38h: That changed a while a go. Feb 22 09:19:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_spacing_at_the_end_of_sentences#Historical_overview Feb 22 09:19:15 ali1234: for lack of a better reference Feb 22 09:19:19 X-Fade: acknowledged Feb 22 09:19:33 cool, i never knew that Feb 22 09:19:43 ali1234: it's basically hell Feb 22 09:19:56 because it's not a standard whitespace Feb 22 09:20:08 there's typically a non breaking whitespace on at least one side of each punctuation mark Feb 22 09:20:14 especially quotation marks Feb 22 09:20:16 it's an unbreakable space Feb 22 09:20:25 * timeless_mbp grumbles about stupid french testers and stupid demands from stupid stupids Feb 22 09:20:31 because you don't exactly want them on a separate line :) Feb 22 09:20:44 Corsac: i'd rather not have them at all Feb 22 09:21:04 well, there shouldn't be any when using “” Feb 22 09:21:06 no punctuation is better than punctuation that randomly breaks across lines because french linguists can't get it right Feb 22 09:21:11 but if using «» there should be :) Feb 22 09:21:18 * timeless_mbp nods Feb 22 09:21:29 sadly the linguists in question used «» Feb 22 09:21:42 which is wrong in an english text indeed Feb 22 09:21:53 oh, this was firefox-fr Feb 22 09:21:58 * timeless_mbp has a huge changeset to fix that Feb 22 09:22:15 which page was it? Feb 22 09:22:16 anyway, would someone *please* fix the referenced wiki page? Feb 22 09:22:31 the Packaging one? Feb 22 09:22:35 yeah Feb 22 09:22:45 fwiw, i don't actually hate the french Feb 22 09:23:02 although i did vomit on my last visit to France, for which i do blame France :) Feb 22 09:23:08 (but the health care wasn't bad) Feb 22 09:23:12 meego.com takes openid right? Feb 22 09:23:20 in theory Feb 22 09:23:45 well let's see if my launchpad works Feb 22 09:23:55 indeed it does Feb 22 09:24:21 but i still have to create an account? Feb 22 09:24:32 actually the result is confusing. i can't tell if it worked or not Feb 22 09:24:38 way to go website developers :) Feb 22 09:24:55 way to go openid, never know what is logging in with what else Feb 22 09:25:07 ali1234: three cheers! Feb 22 09:25:08 i like openid Feb 22 09:25:14 that's not a simple task to express in user interface. Feb 22 09:25:23 lucent: universal login? Feb 22 09:25:26 morning townxelliot Feb 22 09:25:35 morning Stskeeps Feb 22 09:25:45 i think i know what happened Feb 22 09:25:56 normally it would autogenerate an account based on by openin Feb 22 09:26:04 but my openid contains -'s so it can't Feb 22 09:26:52 dunno why it couldn't take my email address Feb 22 09:27:07 morn andre__ Feb 22 09:28:12 heja Feb 22 09:28:29 hi andre__ Feb 22 09:28:34 and Stskeeps Feb 22 09:35:53 my meego rebuild is up to gdb btw Feb 22 09:36:02 rebuilding all rpms in alphabetical order Feb 22 09:36:09 so much less than half way Feb 22 09:39:49 ali1234: where did you get meego? Feb 22 09:40:02 rebuild for? Feb 22 09:40:21 i have an mxr of moblin: http://ec2-72-44-51-255.compute-1.amazonaws.com/repo.moblin.org/ Feb 22 09:40:29 sorry i meant moblin Feb 22 09:40:38 Stskeeps: rebuild for "not atom cpus" Feb 22 09:41:10 ah, cool Feb 22 09:41:37 i just hope i did it right, it's kind of hard to tell Feb 22 09:41:58 specifically i hope the mock "arch" option is really what it passes to gcc, and not something hardcoded into the srpms Feb 22 09:42:06 but i doubt they'd do anything like that :) Feb 22 09:45:33 check gcc spec? Feb 22 09:47:38 Morning, all Feb 22 09:49:31 Morning Jaffa Feb 22 09:51:02 any idea where i might get a hold of the meego logo? Feb 22 09:51:10 noooo! no rpm please Feb 22 09:51:24 these have hardcoded package deps afaicr Feb 22 09:51:44 wrt versions Feb 22 09:53:35 leinir: why? Feb 22 09:53:50 AstralStorm: you prefer non reproducible builds? Feb 22 09:53:51 maemo has that Feb 22 09:53:53 they're awesome Feb 22 09:53:58 never the same binary twice Feb 22 09:54:16 ? Feb 22 09:54:27 AstralStorm, as long as a utopia is created.... i couldn't care less about the chosen package management Feb 22 09:54:32 a binary built from .deb doesn't specify which versions of dependencies it used Feb 22 09:54:35 I mean you can't upgrade any single package Feb 22 09:54:38 which means if you try to rebuild a .deb Feb 22 09:54:44 you are unlikely to get the same result Feb 22 09:54:49 so? Feb 22 09:54:51 timeless_mbp: so i can put the logo on a document i am creating, which relates to MeeGo as a development platform :) Feb 22 09:54:58 as long as it works, it's fine Feb 22 09:55:11 leinir: you could steal the logo from meego.com Feb 22 09:55:35 be[a]ware that the terms and conditions for using the logo are probably not well defined or friendly :) Feb 22 09:55:39 * timeless_mbp is using it Feb 22 09:55:42 the whole problem is when there are deps like foo-0.1 is compatible with 0.2 Feb 22 09:55:50 AstralStorm: hrm Feb 22 09:56:00 so you prefer when nokia releases a .deb for a translation of e.g. modest Feb 22 09:56:03 and then foo update is available and you can't use it with old bind Feb 22 09:56:09 but the deb doesn't say "btw, i will crash your older modest binary" Feb 22 09:56:12 nah, that's splitting Feb 22 09:56:25 ok, the 20 other .deb's nokia produced for 1.2 which do this? Feb 22 09:56:27 the real problem is when some rpm has a dependency on foo-0.1-patchedbysomedude-sourcenotavailable Feb 22 09:56:28 it should have a >=0.666 dep Feb 22 09:56:29 is this bundling? Feb 22 09:56:33 timeless_mbp: that would work, except that somebody decided it would be a great idea to not use an image tag for it :P Feb 22 09:56:35 ali1234, :) Feb 22 09:56:43 leinir: tools>page info Feb 22 09:57:00 also, the problems with maemo and debs were caused by nokia not doing it right Feb 22 09:57:11 ali1234, I've seen some scarier-looking version suffixes Feb 22 09:57:12 ali1234: well Feb 22 09:57:18 there's no way to do the rebuild bit 'right' Feb 22 09:57:19 although some weren't actually as scary as they sounded Feb 22 09:57:27 .deb binaries *never* encode enough information Feb 22 09:57:40 the l10n stuff is because nokia doesn't have a proper l10n policy Feb 22 09:57:46 let alone proper deb versioning rules Feb 22 09:57:53 ali1234, some of Kubuntu's Qt packages were something like "4.5.3really4.5.2blahblahblah" or some such at one point Feb 22 09:58:04 jaem: ubuntu had that too Feb 22 09:58:07 those were awesome Feb 22 09:58:25 FWIW, today's MWKN is a "MeeGo special" - http://www.mwkn.net/ Feb 22 09:58:27 (not for Qt, for something else) Feb 22 09:58:29 timeless_mbp, why do you need binary rebuild reproducibility? Feb 22 09:58:38 timeless_mbp, :) I did see one in the Ubuntu repos that was about twice as long as that Feb 22 09:58:44 if you need a rebuild, you likely don't want to reproduce anyway Feb 22 09:58:46 and made me raise an eyebrow Feb 22 09:58:51 because something is broken Feb 22 09:58:58 AstralStorm: well, to get binary symbols for instance Feb 22 09:59:11 when they put qualifiers (in the language sense) in the middle of a version number... *shakes head* Feb 22 09:59:13 Heya AstralStorm Feb 22 09:59:19 ahh, some hard dep? Feb 22 09:59:31 AstralStorm: or to be able to figure out why a code path is behaving strangely Feb 22 09:59:34 actually, use --as-needed Feb 22 09:59:44 "did some stupid dependency #define XXX_UNSTABLE" ? Feb 22 09:59:51 :) Feb 22 09:59:52 timeless_mbp: Aah right, thanks :) Feb 22 10:00:05 true, but rpm goes the other way wrong Feb 22 10:00:15 AstralStorm: fine by me Feb 22 10:00:18 better strict than sorry Feb 22 10:00:20 i've been sorry Feb 22 10:00:21 where you always have to rebuild Feb 22 10:00:32 Astral: Got attracted by the Meego News? :) Feb 22 10:00:35 if a fly farts, for instance Feb 22 10:00:48 AstralStorm: i think you are thinking of gentoo Feb 22 10:00:58 RST38h, more like by mer inactivity and switch to opengl Feb 22 10:01:20 ali1234, nah, you usually don't have to rebuilds deps in gentoo Feb 22 10:01:30 *rebuild Feb 22 10:01:31 Astral: Ah =) Feb 22 10:01:42 you did last time i used it Feb 22 10:01:50 AstralStorm: i'm not saying .rpm or .deb are great Feb 22 10:01:51 almost any upgrade also required a revdep-rbuild Feb 22 10:01:58 however, i do know where the skeletons live in .deb Feb 22 10:02:11 i'm pretty sure i've hit most of them (not listed here, but hit nonetheless) Feb 22 10:02:19 * openstandards likes arch's package system.....but seriously rpm isn't so bad :) Feb 22 10:02:23 ali1234, in how many packages? Feb 22 10:02:29 timeless_mbp: I'm sure buxy would be interested by skeletons :) Feb 22 10:02:37 AstralStorm: any package that has deps Feb 22 10:02:46 ali1234, you didn't use --as-needed then Feb 22 10:02:51 Corsac: i'm around most of the time, people are free to poll me Feb 22 10:02:58 this should really be a required linker option Feb 22 10:03:16 and some skeletons are recorded in my blog (albeit unpublished, you get to go digging through it yourself) Feb 22 10:03:17 or else you get "non-dynamic" linking Feb 22 10:03:20 timeless_mbp: tell me/us Feb 22 10:03:30 better yet, file bugs :) Feb 22 10:30:14 for the record. i've tried filing bugs against dpkg Feb 22 10:30:29 the turnaround for a bug was 24 months. the question was "is this still happening" Feb 22 10:30:39 ouch! Feb 22 10:30:41 at 24 months, you should expect the reporter to tell you to take a flying leap Feb 22 10:31:33 as for debbugs. roughly around then, i decided that i'd file bugs downstream and let someone else deal w/ it Feb 22 10:31:41 it was a chance for me to retain some semblance of sanity Feb 22 10:32:11 timeless_mbp, Sanity?! Bwuhaha... mm... sanity... yes... sanity good... ahahuh Feb 22 10:32:14 (i've also filed bugs against dpkg which were fixed) Feb 22 10:32:21 * jaem is insane Feb 22 10:38:41 * w00t_ yawns Feb 22 10:39:36 w00t_, darn - now you made me do it >:( Feb 22 10:39:38 lol Feb 22 10:40:47 jaem: :-) Feb 22 10:40:52 * Basstard` breathes Feb 22 10:40:55 monday morning itis has struck me Feb 22 10:41:23 bwha? It's Monday? Feb 22 10:41:35 oh right, that happened just about the time I should have gone to bed Feb 22 10:41:36 lol Feb 22 10:43:02 *g* Feb 22 10:45:12 timeless_mbp: you are a firefox dev, right? do you think that something like fennec can still be used on netbook-like devices? or is it re-focused on phones only? Feb 22 10:45:46 timeless_mbp, why limit yourself between bad and worse? Feb 22 10:46:15 AstralStorm: because os x licensing costs too much Feb 22 10:46:37 blino, right now fennec is unusable... can't search in page, follow anchors, download xpis... slow and memory grubbing too Feb 22 10:46:51 oh, and can't select text or have manual zoom Feb 22 10:47:02 blino: i don't see any reason it couldn't be Feb 22 10:47:11 if you look at the OLPC sugar browser or the moblin browser Feb 22 10:47:18 they all basically look like fennec done wrong Feb 22 10:47:28 ui is fine in fennec, yeah Feb 22 10:47:35 * timeless_mbp thinks that even the eeepc browser would count in this area Feb 22 10:47:36 but features, even basics... not Feb 22 10:47:38 :( Feb 22 10:47:44 timeless_mbp, yeah, the OLPC browser is kind of... annoying Feb 22 10:47:51 then again, it's also a pretty slow machine Feb 22 10:47:56 timeless_mbp: well, recently, most of the communication around fennec has been done for phone devices, exclusively Feb 22 10:47:57 blino: remember that fennec was originally designed against the n800 Feb 22 10:47:59 what's it based on? Feb 22 10:48:00 which doesn't have a phone Feb 22 10:48:10 I haven't poked at my OLPC XO much yet Feb 22 10:48:12 jaem: it was gecko something Feb 22 10:48:15 timeless_mbp: for example Mark's conf at FOSDEM, totally phone-centric Feb 22 10:48:15 ...and it's actually on loan Feb 22 10:48:16 ah Feb 22 10:48:17 i don't remember the something Feb 22 10:48:26 probably 1.8 Feb 22 10:48:32 is the UI in Python like most of the other apps? Feb 22 10:48:46 blino: sadly i was in paris, throwing up, for a mercurial sprint instead of @fosdem Feb 22 10:48:55 i presume you mean mfinkle Feb 22 10:49:00 yep Feb 22 10:49:06 because 'mark' in my community has horrible name collisions Feb 22 10:49:21 not nearly as bad as 'mike', or oddly enough 'mike shaver' in this community Feb 22 10:49:21 but Feb 22 10:49:43 blino: if you're concerned about focus, i'd suggest you visit irc.mozilla.org #mobile Feb 22 10:50:36 well now, I thought things like anchors, search and select were showstopper bugs :) Feb 22 10:50:37 timeless_mbp: I'm there actually, tried to ask the question already, maybe I should give it another try :) Feb 22 10:50:49 or at least critical Feb 22 10:51:00 blino: sorry, i'm mostly on the outskirts of #mobile Feb 22 10:51:15 i'm trying to be upstream of it mostly Feb 22 10:52:16 as would be ability to copy an url/link Feb 22 10:52:35 i suppose they haven't figured out the ui for these Feb 22 10:52:48 why? what would you do w/ it? Feb 22 10:52:58 with the url? Feb 22 10:53:01 yes Feb 22 10:53:07 all things considered, you probably need an action set Feb 22 10:53:08 or at least "download link" Feb 22 10:53:11 put it on the moblin pasteboard :) Feb 22 10:53:17 'tweet link', 'download link', 'bookmark link' Feb 22 10:53:21 paste it to some IM discussion? mail ? Feb 22 10:53:22 yeah Feb 22 10:53:41 the trick is... how to do it Feb 22 10:53:45 keep in mind that 'copy' is pretty much a useless and undiscoverable action for most end users Feb 22 10:53:45 long tap is so-so Feb 22 10:54:15 and double-tap is hijacked by zoom Feb 22 10:54:17 personally i want a smart toolbar Feb 22 10:54:39 some sort of cross between pie menus/toolbar and a context menu Feb 22 10:54:45 well personally i want generic tools where i don't have to rely on somebody to make a button for every little thing i want to do Feb 22 10:54:55 yeah, that'd do Feb 22 10:55:10 "oh yeah, you can put the url on twitter, but not identica, because we didn't make a button for that!" Feb 22 10:55:24 "when are you going to make a button for it?" Feb 22 10:55:27 "in the next device" Feb 22 10:55:38 actually, replacing double-tap zoom with long-tap zoom sounds like a good idea Feb 22 10:55:56 I manage to zoom in by accident Feb 22 10:56:06 "how can i get involved in the design of the next device?" Feb 22 10:56:11 "you can't until we release it" Feb 22 10:56:25 ali1234, extensions... Feb 22 10:57:39 ali1234: so Feb 22 10:57:44 the nice thing about firefox Feb 22 10:57:50 is you don't have to play vendor games Feb 22 10:57:58 hop over to irc://moznet/mobile Feb 22 10:58:22 the maemo browser ui was always hobbled Feb 22 10:58:44 nokia has always considered ui its market differentiation value or something Feb 22 10:58:48 the not-nice thing about firefox... is that it requires a lot of time to write anything really useful Feb 22 10:58:59 AstralStorm: jetpack Feb 22 10:59:02 esp.with all that js flying Feb 22 10:59:04 i think because all cell phone vendors have always thought that Feb 22 10:59:05 extensions are actually pretty easy i think, at least for the desktop Feb 22 10:59:11 if you know javascript and dom anyway Feb 22 10:59:13 they aren't harder for mobile Feb 22 10:59:15 jetpack I haven't looked into Feb 22 10:59:21 unless you don't have a device Feb 22 10:59:25 well i never tried for mobile Feb 22 10:59:25 in which case testing is problematic Feb 22 10:59:44 the only new problem w/ mobile is picking reasonable ui hooks and interactions given space constraints Feb 22 10:59:51 presumably the maemo browseer doesn't use chrome? Feb 22 10:59:59 and so extensions can't add menus/buttons Feb 22 11:00:01 ali1234: historically it didn't Feb 22 11:00:11 you can today write stuff in chrome Feb 22 11:00:18 about:config in maemo5 is chrome Feb 22 11:00:21 with some speed tax Feb 22 11:00:29 the addons manager is chrome Feb 22 11:00:43 but what if i want to change the toolbars? Feb 22 11:00:44 but yeah, the ability to hook the default browser window is limited in tablet-browser-ui Feb 22 11:01:14 ali1234: forget about tablet-browser-ui and just look into fennec Feb 22 11:01:49 moblin build is on glibc Feb 22 11:01:57 so? Feb 22 11:02:03 might take a while Feb 22 11:02:07 ali1234: how do you build it bt? Feb 22 11:02:07 btw Feb 22 11:02:16 Stskeeps: using mock on ubuntu Feb 22 11:02:16 pen and paper Feb 22 11:02:22 I'd prefer uclibc, hehe Feb 22 11:02:34 pity its locale support is lacking Feb 22 11:05:07 pitty unix/linux locale support is a disaster Feb 22 11:05:12 (osx is special there) Feb 22 11:05:25 s/pitty/pity/ Feb 22 11:05:28 my mock notes so far: http://pastebin.com/f5a7543dd Feb 22 11:05:47 timeless_mbp: isn't the old jetpack way almost dead? to be replaced by jetpack reboot, closer to normal extensions Feb 22 11:05:59 blino: probably Feb 22 11:06:02 * timeless_mbp shrugs Feb 22 11:06:13 it's still the right 'magic' answer Feb 22 11:06:39 yep, short-term, it's nice, but could disappear soon :/ Feb 22 11:06:42 that's a work in progress anyway, probably has errors Feb 22 11:06:58 you mean bugs? Feb 22 11:07:09 wow. extra extra! software has bugs. Feb 22 11:07:19 no i mean what i just pastebinned Feb 22 11:07:34 dont be surprised if it doesn't work Feb 22 11:08:03 is mock like sb2? Feb 22 11:08:09 er, no? Feb 22 11:08:17 ali1234: does it build things in dependancy order btw? Feb 22 11:08:28 Stskeeps: no, it builds things one at a time Feb 22 11:08:30 k Feb 22 11:08:44 Stskeeps: and it doesn't use what you just built to build the next thing either Feb 22 11:08:45 you should check for SSE3(?) things in the binaries afterwards then Feb 22 11:08:47 ali1234: so when something fails, what do you do? Feb 22 11:09:15 Stskeeps: yeah, this may be a problem Feb 22 11:09:32 timeless_mbp: i report a bug? Feb 22 11:09:57 Stskeeps: As someone corrected, SSSE3 Feb 22 11:10:19 Stskeeps: It is not exactly the same as SSE3, and pretty much requires Merom or later ia32 CPU Feb 22 11:13:15 hmm... how can i automatically check a few hundred rpms for binaries that need SSSE3? Feb 22 11:14:45 ali1234, trained monkeys? Feb 22 11:18:48 ali1234: but what about package dependencies? Feb 22 11:18:55 i know of 3 dependencies in moblin Feb 22 11:18:56 timeless_mbp: what about it? Feb 22 11:18:58 you need cabextract Feb 22 11:19:07 and dos2unix Feb 22 11:19:12 i am really curious, there was a version of moblin scheduled for march, with the meego merge we will still have that version? Feb 22 11:19:16 ali1234: well, if you're trying to build things Feb 22 11:19:23 but aren't keeping things after you build them Feb 22 11:19:29 won't all dependencies fail? Feb 22 11:19:35 timeless_mbp: mock fetches all build deps from the originating repo automatically Feb 22 11:19:49 zinho: wouldn't that be a question for #moblin? :) Feb 22 11:20:07 ali1234: hrm Feb 22 11:20:22 that's not going to do the right thing (tm) Feb 22 11:20:27 timeless_mbp: this means all my rpms are compiled against the original SSSE3 using dependencies Feb 22 11:20:42 if a build dep includes a .a which isn't compiled w/ the cpu arch you want Feb 22 11:20:50 however, this should not matter unless something gets static linked or something odd like that Feb 22 11:20:51 dont realy know, dont realy understand if the 2 projects, maemo and moblin will continue after the merge or not Feb 22 11:20:52 then you're going to get that .a linked into your .so Feb 22 11:21:43 ali1234: it happens often enough Feb 22 11:21:54 i'd really suggest you use your own repository for things instead Feb 22 11:22:04 then i have a chicken and egg problem Feb 22 11:22:08 you're already building everything, i don't see why you wouldn't want to Feb 22 11:22:11 not really Feb 22 11:22:22 you have all the .srpm's right? Feb 22 11:22:25 right Feb 22 11:22:39 for each package, ask "can i satisfy build deps from *my* repository" Feb 22 11:22:41 i can't build any of them without a chroot Feb 22 11:22:44 if not, goto next: Feb 22 11:22:57 since my repository contains zero things, the answer is always "no" Feb 22 11:24:37 * timeless_mbp ponders Feb 22 11:25:05 toss in gcc + glibc, try to build glibc, toss out glibc, toss in your glibc, try to build gcc, toss out gcc, toss in your gcc Feb 22 11:25:09 i would have to build my own toolchain and bring up a chroot from scratch Feb 22 11:25:32 you need to build gcc twice to bootstrap Feb 22 11:25:48 thiago: doesn't gcc do that by itself? Feb 22 11:25:59 no Feb 22 11:26:08 you need to build gcc, then build glibc, then build gcc with C++ supprot Feb 22 11:26:30 gcc C++ support includes building a library that depends on libc Feb 22 11:26:34 so basically, i can't use mock for this at all... Feb 22 11:26:40 ah sorry, got the wrong order Feb 22 11:26:46 ali1234: you really should use sb2 :) Feb 22 11:26:53 * timeless_mbp is still unsure what mock does Feb 22 11:26:53 scratchbox can eat it Feb 22 11:26:59 i don't need an emulator Feb 22 11:27:03 what's wrong w/ sb2? Feb 22 11:27:03 to bootstrap a toolchain, you first build gcc and binutils, then libc, then gcc again Feb 22 11:27:04 using a chroot is fine Feb 22 11:27:22 what *isn't* wrong with sb2? Feb 22 11:27:30 timeless_mbp, tell me how to use it :) Feb 22 11:27:35 in a page Feb 22 11:27:58 and without installing a Debian-based distro Feb 22 11:28:06 timeless_mbp: mock fetches rpms, builds a chroot, and then runs rpmbuild inside it Feb 22 11:28:26 * thiago knows people who are running Linux inside Linux in the office just because of SB Feb 22 11:29:08 http://rotateright.com/forum/index.php?topic=42.0 Feb 22 11:29:57 thiago: i use vbox instead :) Feb 22 11:30:03 * timeless_mbp avoids sbox Feb 22 11:31:27 I prefer a regular cross-compilation Feb 22 11:32:17 thing is, i don't actually need to recompile gcc Feb 22 11:32:33 because it can already produce vanilla i386 bins if i ask it to Feb 22 11:32:42 i am not using a different arch Feb 22 11:32:59 i might need to recompile the support libraries Feb 22 11:33:11 but isn't that what i am doing? Feb 22 11:33:27 eg if i take the gcc rpm i just compiled and tell mock to use it for the chroot... Feb 22 11:33:48 the thing is you aren't using the other rpm's you've built Feb 22 11:33:52 at least, you said you weren't Feb 22 11:33:57 or rather, the gcc and glibc i just compiled, then use that to rebuild gcc Feb 22 11:34:04 i'm not *yet* Feb 22 11:34:14 yeah, that should work Feb 22 11:34:29 from there, build everything in dep order Feb 22 11:34:46 why isn't there a tool to do this for me? Feb 22 11:37:42 OBS? Feb 22 11:37:42 :P Feb 22 11:37:49 heh Feb 22 11:38:01 i think obs is really the answer Feb 22 11:38:21 how would obs help me? Feb 22 11:38:41 you would be able to bootstrap your own gcc version at first, then ask OBS to build all your packages against that Feb 22 11:40:15 "To make real use of your server, you need base distros to build against." Feb 22 11:40:23 similar way they bootstrap MeeGo for ARM Feb 22 11:40:33 right, and that'd be the original meego Feb 22 11:40:45 then you make a project that builds against meego, drop in your own gcc Feb 22 11:41:01 when that is built, drop in all your packages Feb 22 11:41:14 the result is then same project build against your gcc Feb 22 11:41:48 and it builds in dependency order? Feb 22 11:41:50 right Feb 22 11:41:56 that seems to be the only advantage Feb 22 11:42:45 actually, the ability to run lots of workers is another Feb 22 11:43:03 that too Feb 22 11:43:08 looks rather complex to set up though Feb 22 11:52:46 so how am i supposed to install OBS? i don't have a big enough usb drive for it, and in any case don't want to dedicate my computer to compiling for 3 days Feb 22 11:53:40 the installation guide is talking about making LVMs Feb 22 11:55:35 ah, i see mer has a guide, nice Feb 22 11:58:49 i need a novell.com username/password to use obs? Feb 22 11:59:23 or this guide is only for setting up the tools to access novell's obs instance? Feb 22 12:05:58 either instance works Feb 22 12:06:44 what do you mean "either instance works" Feb 22 12:06:53 i want to run my own local instance Feb 22 12:07:11 as in you can indicate in .oscrc what your default target is :) Feb 22 12:07:46 installing OBS from source looks harder than just bootstrapping by hand Feb 22 12:07:53 and no packages for ubuntu Feb 22 12:08:08 windows keyboard + mac = little confusing Feb 22 13:35:10 what is the deal with livecds that don't work? Feb 22 13:35:37 the OBS live CD tells me to use the web interface, but the web interface just returns a 404 error Feb 22 13:35:38 nice one Feb 22 13:47:51 hi Feb 22 13:48:01 i have builded livecd image Feb 22 13:48:41 but a bott i have: cerate symlink /dev/root/ and them exit to shell to continue Feb 22 13:48:48 is normally? Feb 22 14:06:09 * CosmoHill stabs his assignment Feb 22 14:06:51 how do i display the build deps on a srpm? Feb 22 14:06:56 at least you don't have to practice polish numbers Feb 22 14:07:35 ? there's no such thing Feb 22 14:07:47 Is the meego community irc meeting resheduled? I thought it was at 17UTC? Feb 22 14:08:00 meeting? Feb 22 14:08:10 Events says its 20:00 UTC now Feb 22 14:08:17 http://meego.com/community/events Feb 22 14:08:23 ali1234: i think you have to use the package manager to tell you Feb 22 14:08:26 not rpm itself Feb 22 14:08:45 fine, so how do i do that? Feb 22 14:08:48 bva: it's 15:00 utc+2 atm, so i highly doubt it is Feb 22 14:08:59 no idea myself Feb 22 14:09:26 * bva is confused now Feb 22 14:09:37 bva: and isn't it on wednesday ? :P Feb 22 14:10:03 Yes Feb 22 14:10:05 24th of februari Feb 22 14:10:19 As far as I remember 20:00 UTC was the first seriously proposed time. Feb 22 14:10:51 20 UTC is better for me :) tahn I dont have to rush home after work Feb 22 14:11:08 no traffic fines Feb 22 14:11:10 :p Feb 22 14:11:39 Home for an IRC meeting? Feb 22 14:11:49 You're clearly not from the Maemo Community. :P Feb 22 14:12:02 Yeah they are not so happy about me chatting at work Feb 22 14:12:11 I'm not indeed Feb 22 14:12:23 There's your problem. Feb 22 14:12:27 Might I recommend an N900. ;) Feb 22 14:12:39 You want to pay it for me? :D Feb 22 14:14:15 TBH I'm verry new to this community happenings and stuff. Altough interested and following meego from day 1 (that I heard of it :p) Feb 22 14:14:35 GeneralAntilles: to be fair, I want to stab things after typing on my n900 for too long Feb 22 14:14:44 it's workable, just too slow considering my usual typing speed Feb 22 14:14:58 w00t, yeah, I've developed a mindset for it over the years. Feb 22 14:15:01 I demand a neural interface with the n1000. Feb 22 14:15:14 w00t, however I never felt as frustrated with the 770 and the N800 as I get with the N900. Feb 22 14:15:20 * w00t nods Feb 22 14:15:36 w00t: hook up a bluetooth keyboard ;) Feb 22 14:15:38 the keyboard is quite small. I do sort of miss my XDA Exec keyboard in that sense. ;) Feb 22 14:15:40 hello there! I just tried the MeeGo image posted here: http://www.madeo.co.uk/?p=373 . Is it a known problem that the power button of my Dell Mini 9 does not respond? I can only shutdown via console. Feb 22 14:15:49 It's difficult to use sub-standard inputs when a Dvorak Model M is your primary. ;) Feb 22 14:15:50 ...and hook the thing up to your flatpanel... ;) Feb 22 14:16:11 leinir, the Stowaway is too small and the Apple one has terrible key action. Feb 22 14:16:11 (http://pakawat.212cafe.com/user_blog/pakawat/picture/1170691818.jpg if you don't know what an Exec looks like!) Feb 22 14:16:14 i find the onscreen keyboard more relaxing to type on, bigger keys i think is the ...key Feb 22 14:16:32 I'm amazed at how the whole market manages to make keyboard worse every generation. Feb 22 14:16:54 Dvoid, sadly Nokia decided to fscking break it for PR1.1. Feb 22 14:16:55 w00t: Oooh that one! Damn, that thing makes you look awesomely idiotic when making calls ;) Feb 22 14:17:03 leinir: in what way? Feb 22 14:17:05 GeneralAntilles, they dod? Feb 22 14:17:23 w00t: You're holding a device up to your face the size of a small netbook ;) Feb 22 14:17:27 haha, nah Feb 22 14:17:35 i really hope they fix onscreenkeyboard support in portraitmode for the next update Feb 22 14:17:37 It's like that phone guy from The Fast Show ;) Feb 22 14:17:37 they aren't small I suppose but it's not like a brick size Feb 22 14:17:40 Didn't knew there was a Unofficial build of meego? Feb 22 14:17:58 it still always fit into my hand fine, so that was good enough Feb 22 14:18:08 sorry, THTV, not Fast Show :) Feb 22 14:18:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYLMk8xplqw Feb 22 14:20:06 Dvoid, yeah, they dropped the gestures. Feb 22 14:21:15 after 1 week i yet cannot to install meego... ;( Feb 22 14:21:25 i want scretchbox Feb 22 14:21:39 famous last words Feb 22 14:21:59 GeneralAntilles, oh, never used. what did you use them fore? Feb 22 14:22:01 *for Feb 22 14:22:23 Dvoid, after tapping you could swipe to shift, delete, and newline. Feb 22 14:23:06 Is there any sort of release period planned for pre-alpha 0.1 on MeeGo? I might, right now the initial release date is "Before April, for reals" Feb 22 14:23:14 mkay, why did they remove that :S Feb 22 14:23:21 ...maybe noone used it Feb 22 14:23:40 Lots of people used it Feb 22 14:24:03 They removed it to make it more iPhone-esque Feb 22 14:24:15 :o Feb 22 14:24:47 i'd rather make my product better than the iphone than copy it Feb 22 14:25:03 Hrm, think I'm still faster on the N800 keyboard than the N900. Feb 22 14:25:15 if you're going to buy something that copies the iphone you might as well get the real things Feb 22 14:25:21 the N800 on-screen keyboard, you mean? Feb 22 14:25:31 the N800 didn't have a physical keyboard Feb 22 14:26:19 CosmoHill, are you indicating that iPhone is indeed a better product? Feb 22 14:26:48 it's shiny and comes with a free fanboy Feb 22 14:27:02 Steve <3 Feb 22 14:27:09 thiago, thus why I didn't feel the need to specify. :) Feb 22 14:27:28 GeneralAntilles: good point :-) Feb 22 14:28:00 Man I miss the kickstand Feb 22 14:28:08 Fun to play with and useful. Feb 22 14:28:10 Yes. Feb 22 14:28:12 yeah, same here Feb 22 14:28:18 That's what I miss most about the n800 Feb 22 14:28:32 * CosmoHill hates his assignment Feb 22 14:29:00 * thiago looks at the N800 sitting on his desk Feb 22 14:29:02 yeah, good times Feb 22 14:29:15 i wonder how many potential customers come onto the website and go "omfg wtf" and leave Feb 22 14:29:24 I dunno why people always hate on the N800's looks. Feb 22 14:29:30 link me Feb 22 14:29:40 no wait, I'll go to wikipedia Feb 22 14:31:17 Be nice if Nokia rehashed the N800 with an OMAP3 Feb 22 14:31:19 i've not heard the term "internet tablet" Feb 22 14:31:41 CosmoHill, it's closer to a Nokia trademark than a generic industry term. Feb 22 14:32:13 i thought it was a smartphone Feb 22 14:32:21 there's no phone in n800 Feb 22 14:32:25 so it's just smart Feb 22 14:32:30 Um, "MID" is the closest "generic" term. Feb 22 14:32:30 hehe Feb 22 14:32:52 Although originally a "MID" was a 4-5" toucscreen device with an Atom processor. . . . Feb 22 14:33:06 MID is defined by Intel Feb 22 14:33:15 the n900 is a smart phone right? Feb 22 14:33:17 same as UMPC is defined by Microsoft Feb 22 14:33:32 General: The word you are looking for is probably "comlog" =) Feb 22 14:33:36 CosmoHill: No, they use a different term in the document they released... Feb 22 14:33:52 General: A device for communicating and logging your life Feb 22 14:34:17 logging? :/ Feb 22 14:35:18 RST38h, MID's been genericized, though. Feb 22 14:37:15 General: Intel staunchily insists that MID is bla bla bla Feb 22 14:37:18 With the MeeGo project, is Nokia opening up any of the Maemo code? user-space, I mean, not drivers. Feb 22 14:37:25 err, any *more* I mean Feb 22 14:37:32 RST38h, do they? Feb 22 14:37:34 Interesting Feb 22 14:37:35 So, especially given that it is just an abbreviation, I would not go there Feb 22 14:38:00 MID also means many other things, so it is bad to google for :) Feb 22 14:38:08 mukiex_: noone knows yet Feb 22 14:38:27 but they will have to open most of platform i think Feb 22 14:38:50 RST38h, I'd note that wikipedia doesn't really agree, but as I had a hand in the formation of the article. . . . *eg* Feb 22 14:39:06 like, no closed apis in platform base Feb 22 14:39:07 the N900 looks nice Feb 22 14:39:18 general: I just checked the article by myself, and it seems to be awfully heavy on Intel specific stuff Feb 22 14:39:48 CosmoHill: Yes, the problem is the word "nice" though ;) Feb 22 14:40:02 however it's more than my car..≥ Feb 22 14:40:07 "nice" is the sort of word you use when you want to say something positive, but can't think of something really good ;) Feb 22 14:40:22 Stskeeps: got a question Feb 22 14:40:45 Stskeeps: I cannot seem to find mce package in fremantle autobuilder. What is the story? Feb 22 14:41:11 i mean, as for innards, i'm a big, big fan- but it does look only "nice" :) It doesn't really have that spark of awesome that you need to really hit it home :) Feb 22 14:41:21 should be there, but look at why the closed packages wiki page Feb 22 14:41:30 its closed source Feb 22 14:41:42 thiago is saying that the n900+1 will have that, though, so i'm confident that they'll pull that one off nicely :) Feb 22 14:41:59 Stskeeps: really just need the headers and they do not seem to be there Feb 22 14:42:00 what am I saying? Feb 22 14:42:14 RST38h: mce-dev Feb 22 14:42:22 they are there, for sure Feb 22 14:42:24 oss Feb 22 14:43:24 CosmoHill, what in the world are you driving? Feb 22 14:43:29 if i where to buy a device for meego, how easy is it to flash and how easy to recover if it was bricked Feb 22 14:43:34 GeneralAntilles: 1995 Nissan Almera Feb 22 14:43:52 it's insured for £500 and the N900 is about £480 ish Feb 22 14:44:47 wow, they still sell nokia 3310s Feb 22 14:46:44 Stskeeps: thanks =) Feb 22 14:47:01 np Feb 22 14:48:31 someone has a link for download meego image? Feb 22 14:48:39 Ok, this does not help Feb 22 14:48:48 Autobuilder does not seem to have it installed =( Feb 22 14:48:55 megabast: what download image? :p Feb 22 14:49:53 a meego image to try it on my computer Feb 22 14:50:02 moblin 2.2 Feb 22 14:50:38 it seems to be an image at this link, but it doesn t work http://www.madeo.co.uk/?p=371 Feb 22 14:50:39 RST38h: it is in SDK, build-dep on it? Feb 22 14:51:11 CosmoHill: USB image Feb 22 14:51:16 hmm ok Feb 22 14:51:25 as far as i know there are no offical images yet Feb 22 14:51:30 not sure it wil help =( Feb 22 14:51:43 i'm sure Feb 22 14:53:11 that's right Feb 22 14:58:18 meego is hosted in the US right? Feb 22 14:59:10 Seems likely Feb 22 15:00:56 the US has this thing about allowed kids under 13 on forums Feb 22 15:01:06 s does the UK Feb 22 15:01:12 it does? Feb 22 15:01:28 yes, the UK has all the same stupid laws as the US Feb 22 15:03:30 I didn't know that Feb 22 15:04:46 And a few more in addition Feb 22 15:04:57 can i have a link? Feb 22 15:05:07 (for example that one with priests being allowed to shoot Welsh people if spotted on holy ground in the UK ;) ) Feb 22 15:05:11 CosmoHill, the US doesn't have a monopoly on screwing over its citizens. ;) Feb 22 15:06:28 it's not where some scare, missinformed parents have kicked up a fuss and a law has been made Feb 22 15:08:52 So many peeps in this channel! Feb 22 15:09:27 multiple personalities for the win Feb 22 15:09:39 heh Feb 22 15:10:46 well I've not found anything about uk laws Feb 22 15:10:54 but I;ve found a site for parents about kids on the internet Feb 22 15:11:28 CosmoHill: websites are not allowed to store any details about minors in the UK without parental consent Feb 22 15:12:13 that applies to having an account on a forum Feb 22 15:12:39 because getting parental consent is near impossible, they just ban minors entirely Feb 22 15:12:43 minors being under 12 Feb 22 15:12:50 *13 Feb 22 15:12:53 dunno Feb 22 15:13:07 i am not a lawyer Feb 22 15:13:31 thats why you have to check that radio button when you register on forums Feb 22 15:13:55 yeah, the whole thing is damn near impossible to enforce anyway Feb 22 15:13:59 which is why it is so stupid Feb 22 15:14:12 ah well ... gotta love Samsung! Feb 22 15:14:30 my NC10 broke down, as it still had warratny, it got send in for repair Feb 22 15:14:44 now I got it back, guess what. moblin is gone, but they installed win XP again ... Feb 22 15:15:03 Votan, Linux is a virus. Feb 22 15:15:11 They're just trying to help you out. ;) Feb 22 15:15:11 i once sent my powerbook away and they repalced the hard drive without even a phone call Feb 22 15:15:36 Welcome to OS X, please enter you details O.O Feb 22 15:15:49 Your lucky they didnt even tell you installing moblin was the couse of the proble Feb 22 15:16:01 dito, now call, no eMail, nothing. The letter that was in the box didnt even mention what was wrong with the netbook in the first place ... well it works again, but thx for deleting my entire stuf -.- Feb 22 15:16:02 and just returned it as sended Feb 22 15:16:42 the thing was dead, ... nothing happened when u pushed the power button. so I guess the harddrive was not the issue, still funny they killed it :/ Feb 22 15:17:00 * arjan wonders if someone from the maemo tracker team is here Feb 22 15:17:44 * CosmoHill wonders off to watch tv Feb 22 15:17:45 arjan: pvanhoof should know. Feb 22 15:17:59 anyways, does someone have a MeeGo trunk .img/.iso somwehre hosted ? Otherwise i'd need to install moblin 2.1 again and hope u can upgrade to meego 1.0 later on Feb 22 15:18:48 arjan, im here Feb 22 15:19:06 arjan, juergbi is also here Feb 22 15:20:08 arjan, we don't read this channel very often, so use our nicknames if you have a question. Or just join #tracker on gimpnet Feb 22 15:21:05 pvanhoof: are you here still in about 30 minutes? Feb 22 15:21:10 * arjan needs to drive to the office first Feb 22 15:21:14 damn updating a wndws computer in afrika trough rdp takes like a full day! Feb 22 15:21:40 arjan, yes Feb 22 15:22:09 arjan, but for tracker related questions you should probably joint the tracker channel on gimpnet Feb 22 15:22:15 -t :) Feb 22 15:23:27 I suppose no answer means publicly available MeeGo built for netbooks ? :> Feb 22 15:23:35 will be back in a bit Feb 22 15:28:45 Votan: for instance there is no meego img available Feb 22 15:29:13 yeah well i thought maybe someone made one out of the trunk stuff Feb 22 15:41:01 http://www.madeo.co.uk/?p=371 but it doesn't work for me Feb 22 15:42:22 mh, gonna give it a shot as the hdd is wiped now anyways Feb 22 15:43:09 good luck Votan Feb 22 15:43:15 If you want to test an image you can try using Moblin 2.1 http://moblin.org/downloads Feb 22 15:43:34 I don't know how much MeeGo is in there, but there should be some. Feb 22 15:44:07 jeremiah i've been using moblin for months now. Problem is I dunno how easy u can upgrad moblin 2.1 to MeeGo 1.0 once an official img is available Feb 22 15:44:34 Votan: I suspect the upgrade path from Moblin -> MeeGo won't be too painful Feb 22 15:44:34 and as Samsung kindly killed my HDD upon repairing my netbook, I figured why not start with some early MeeGo build instead of the old moblin 2.1 img Feb 22 15:44:58 I wonder how an interface could be useful on a netbook and on a mobile phone, Feb 22 15:45:40 the are different ux Feb 22 15:45:57 megabast anyways, seems the images are gone :> so.... guess it is the old moblin 2.1 then Feb 22 15:46:30 Votan: I think that is your best bet for right now. Feb 22 15:46:38 kebax: ok Feb 22 15:47:16 megabast: I don't think MeeGo is really one single interface, it most likely will support two window managers, at least in the short term Feb 22 15:47:46 http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture Feb 22 15:47:48 MeeGo is smaller than a distribution, but bigger than a Window Manager Feb 22 15:48:02 jeremiah: ? Feb 22 15:48:27 ux is on top Feb 22 15:48:31 ok thx for answers Feb 22 15:49:48 * kebax wonders what are the other ux Feb 22 15:50:04 kebax, probably worth waiting for the non-PR-people architecture. Feb 22 15:50:20 okay Feb 22 15:50:46 I would suspect that the IVI is on UX Feb 22 15:50:54 Or rather, IVI is one UX Feb 22 15:51:15 I think Visteon presented an IVI demo at CES, I think it is on YouTube Feb 22 15:52:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=SE&feature=youtube_gdata&v=2y6Y-bBw54M Feb 22 15:54:25 so when/where this non-PR-people architecture will be? Feb 22 15:54:48 jeremiah, man that looks bad. Feb 22 15:57:29 is there a moblin netbook that I can go buy? Feb 22 15:57:41 Dell, MSI, Samsung apparently. Feb 22 15:57:54 link or it didn't happen :) Feb 22 15:58:02 like I found this http://www.moblinzone.com/blog/861/10/37/MSI_Ships_First_Netbook_with_SUSE_Moblin Feb 22 15:58:16 and it says the MSI U135 will have SUSE Moblin Feb 22 15:58:25 but then I google for it... they all have windows 7 starter Feb 22 15:58:31 You know you can run Windows on all these netbooks... Feb 22 15:58:45 Not sure why you would want to run Moblin on them Feb 22 15:59:36 my mom wants it, she doesn't want to deal with the drama of maintaining windows Feb 22 15:59:45 also, have you seen windows 7 starter? :D Feb 22 16:00:09 Windows needs maintenance? Feb 22 16:00:29 I thought Linux needed regular maintenance... Feb 22 16:00:41 only maemo Feb 22 16:00:55 I'm looking for some info, not trolls :S Feb 22 16:01:35 Ok, info: you can install Linux on pretty much every netbook out there Feb 22 16:01:54 yea I can, my mom can't. Feb 22 16:01:56 But do keep in mind that once you install it for your mom, you will be maintaining it for your mom. Feb 22 16:02:02 i have yet to see anyone link to an actual purchasable device that has moblin, but it isn't particularly hard to install it Feb 22 16:02:53 dell has one, I guess Feb 22 16:02:59 everyone guesses Feb 22 16:03:00 :) Feb 22 16:03:12 everyone say "dell dell dell" but they don't provide a link to where i can order it Feb 22 16:03:29 http://dell.com/ubuntu Feb 22 16:03:50 ubuntu moblin remix != moblin Feb 22 16:04:06 thats true Feb 22 16:04:25 well I can at least tell u that everything works on a Samsung NC10 Feb 22 16:04:28 however, that is the closest i've seen so far Feb 22 16:04:35 but u'd still have to get rid of xp and isntall moblin urself Feb 22 16:12:38 hey all Feb 22 16:12:48 so my msgs to maemo-devel are rejected, how to fix that? Feb 22 16:12:56 is the guy about the twitter client here? Feb 22 16:14:44 sivang, subscribe the list ? Feb 22 16:14:46 change your adress mail Feb 22 16:15:20 VDVsx: moo Feb 22 16:15:43 RST38h, hey Feb 22 16:15:57 ali1234: looks like the Dell website advertize Moblin as well, but I don't find a way to actually buy it Feb 22 16:36:52 VDVsx: done, I just hit the reply button and it sent it to maemo-devel so it bounced off apparently. Feb 22 16:42:04 http://yuki.idleentity.net/ie4/index.php?p=blog&a=42 Feb 22 16:45:11 yo Feb 22 16:53:41 hi Feb 22 16:57:09 hello Feb 22 16:57:49 hallo Feb 22 16:57:53 moin Feb 22 16:57:58 grüezi Feb 22 16:58:08 servus Feb 22 16:58:23 hm. nobody home Feb 22 16:59:16 err Feb 22 16:59:23 i'm there Feb 22 16:59:32 did someone manage to build moblin out of source ? Feb 22 16:59:52 hello Feb 22 17:00:04 I did say hi, must have said it in the wrong window Feb 22 17:00:07 moblin or meego ? Feb 22 17:00:17 moblin Feb 22 17:00:38 i did, but that was pre 2.0, so quite a few months back Feb 22 17:00:43 i'd like to build against the trunk Feb 22 17:00:50 but i don't know how to "start" Feb 22 17:01:12 I mean, what to build, how to put everything together... Feb 22 17:02:15 there is no tutorial Feb 22 17:03:01 sec, trying to find the tutorial i used back then. was pretty general, but got me thru :) Feb 22 17:03:37 thx Feb 22 17:04:00 VLJ: i am doing it now Feb 22 17:04:16 meego tutoial? Feb 22 17:04:53 there is no meego tutorial, isn't it ? Feb 22 17:04:58 btw, the trunk of moblin, is it still updated, like in the current 2.2 moblin aka MeeGo files ? I thought they trunk off moblin is dicontinued as they moved to meego Feb 22 17:05:30 I have no idea Feb 22 17:05:39 but it's more up to date than the moblin 2.1 live image Feb 22 17:05:58 (clutter doesnt work by me) Feb 22 17:06:00 VLJ: but i am using the srpms from 2.1 Feb 22 17:06:01 kebax: that "meego" tutorial is just using the moblin image creator to make an image out of some random binary rpms Feb 22 17:06:11 Votan: yes, we are still updating our Trunk (moblin 2.2 aka Meego 1.0 (for Netbook)) Feb 22 17:06:16 hi all Feb 22 17:07:03 anyone know if with meego the n900 support multi touch? Feb 22 17:07:09 VLJ: are you using OBS to compile moblin/meego? Feb 22 17:07:14 no Feb 22 17:07:26 the n900 hardware isn't capable? Feb 22 17:07:28 aw Feb 22 17:07:34 I tried the ymp one click install Feb 22 17:07:37 it didnot work Feb 22 17:07:47 (missing dependencies...) Feb 22 17:07:52 ymp? Feb 22 17:07:53 but it was no compilation at all Feb 22 17:08:09 the format from opensuse to install package and dependencies at once Feb 22 17:08:16 oh, i don't use opensuse Feb 22 17:08:28 i'm trying to figure out how to set up a OBS instance Feb 22 17:08:39 but it seems to be almost impossible to do so Feb 22 17:08:45 even the livecds do not work Feb 22 17:09:04 OBS=Opensuse Build Service ? Feb 22 17:09:06 damien_l that's great! then I need to get it working aswell, I wanna try MeeGo as it uses chrome instead of that mozilla thing :) Feb 22 17:09:07 yes Feb 22 17:09:45 I don't know how well non opensuse platform are supported Feb 22 17:10:01 so u gus are trying to use http://en.opensuse.org/Moblin/Build_Service to build atm ? Feb 22 17:10:07 they have a livecd which is supposed to be a server and worker but it doesn't work. at all. Feb 22 17:10:12 no I don't Feb 22 17:10:22 ali1234 are u trying to use that one ? Feb 22 17:10:32 Votan: no, that is for moblin on top of suse Feb 22 17:10:38 Votan: see there's two "moblins" Feb 22 17:10:39 err if you just want a "worker" you should use osc Feb 22 17:10:54 VLJ: i want the full thing Feb 22 17:11:01 VLJ: i want everything to run on my local machine Feb 22 17:11:12 VLJ: i want to not have to make a login on novell.com Feb 22 17:11:13 aaah I see, that's the GUI running on top of suse Feb 22 17:11:14 mh Feb 22 17:11:32 I don't know if it's possible to run OBS without any novell login Feb 22 17:11:37 Votan: yeah, exactly. and also those instructions are only good for building it on the opensuse servers Feb 22 17:11:53 VLJ: it is, supposedly with the livecd Feb 22 17:11:54 ali1234 yeah, I tried that a few weeks back and didnt get anywhere with it Feb 22 17:11:57 osc is a free software however, you could download it if it's available for your distro Feb 22 17:12:11 osc is just the client for the server Feb 22 17:12:15 yes Feb 22 17:12:17 it's useless alone Feb 22 17:12:22 err Feb 22 17:12:29 you can build things localy Feb 22 17:12:31 I mean Feb 22 17:12:39 osc can do update to server, such thing Feb 22 17:12:47 but you can "try locally" Feb 22 17:12:56 dunno what that means Feb 22 17:13:01 with "osc build" command, osc will seek every dependencies Feb 22 17:13:07 download them on your hard drive Feb 22 17:13:12 and build the thing on your host Feb 22 17:13:20 damien_l as you can see, we are kinda stuck :) How are you guys building ur images ? I suppose you do build ur trunk every now and then to test it on some test hardware ? Feb 22 17:13:42 VLJ: so osc can run without a server? Feb 22 17:14:04 you still need opensuse server somewhere to provide the dependencies Feb 22 17:14:11 the repository? Feb 22 17:14:13 but the building can occur localy Feb 22 17:14:27 opensuse server isn't going to provide any deps cos i'm not building opensuse packages Feb 22 17:14:31 ok Feb 22 17:14:43 so it should work without opensuse server Feb 22 17:14:51 not quite Feb 22 17:15:01 the deps come from the project setup Feb 22 17:15:04 but you still need an image of the things on moblin repository Feb 22 17:15:28 i have a mirror of moblin 2.1 repo Feb 22 17:15:42 also, you won't need a novell login for the meego obs Feb 22 17:15:51 there is a meego obs ? Feb 22 17:16:04 lbt: i am not interested in using someone else's server. it all runs locally, or i don't use it Feb 22 17:16:05 not yet Feb 22 17:16:12 it runs locally Feb 22 17:16:32 you know how debian provide an http server that you don't mind using ... :) Feb 22 17:16:33 so what, exactly, do i need to install? Feb 22 17:16:40 you install osc and build Feb 22 17:16:56 and it then downloads all the rpms needed to build your package Feb 22 17:17:06 based on a recursive analysis Feb 22 17:17:09 of the build-depends Feb 22 17:17:19 (moreless like emerge ?) Feb 22 17:17:24 less Feb 22 17:17:26 more like mock Feb 22 17:17:29 Feb 22 17:17:31 yes Feb 22 17:17:36 except with the recursive analysis Feb 22 17:17:39 mock ? Feb 22 17:17:43 except it works for rpm and deb Feb 22 17:17:50 and it has multi-arch Feb 22 17:17:54 I am kinda losing it here now :> Feb 22 17:17:57 and shedloads more good stuff Feb 22 17:18:00 and it's GPL Feb 22 17:18:05 (like mock etc) Feb 22 17:18:23 lbt: so, there's that Mer page about setting up OBS? Feb 22 17:18:23 err OBS is the only way to build moblin from source ? Feb 22 17:18:30 ali1234: yep Feb 22 17:18:36 lbt: the one that says i need a novell login? Feb 22 17:18:36 VLJ: no Feb 22 17:18:55 but it's the easiest way ? Feb 22 17:18:59 lbt: if i follow those instructions for ubuntu, do i *really* need a novell login, will i be able to do what you just said? Feb 22 17:19:02 ali1234: for Mer you do.... Novell/openSuse graciously provide Mer with a shitload of CPUs Feb 22 17:19:21 and they want you to login Feb 22 17:19:36 lbt: basically, does that suse repo for ubuntu contain everything i need for local building? Feb 22 17:19:40 you *really* need a login to use it for Mer Feb 22 17:19:43 yes Feb 22 17:19:53 what is Mer ? Feb 22 17:20:13 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Feb 22 17:20:27 community free port of maemo Feb 22 17:20:31 lbt: just out of interest, why? just because mer is so big? Feb 22 17:20:41 why what? Feb 22 17:20:49 why i *really* need a login for mer Feb 22 17:20:56 but not other things Feb 22 17:21:10 you need a login if you want to build for Mer using the OBS (which is the only way) Feb 22 17:21:35 what if i want to build for mer... locally Feb 22 17:21:41 ok Feb 22 17:21:45 you need a login if you want to build locally for Mer using the OBS (which is the only way) Feb 22 17:21:45 i still don't get it Feb 22 17:22:04 heh Feb 22 17:22:12 what if i grab all the mer source, make a project, and build that locally? Feb 22 17:22:19 feel free Feb 22 17:22:20 i need a login for that? Feb 22 17:22:29 actually, right now, yes :) Feb 22 17:22:34 doh. why? Feb 22 17:22:42 since we don't have all the source externally in a sane place Feb 22 17:22:48 ok, i see Feb 22 17:22:51 WIP Feb 22 17:22:51 i think, anyway Feb 22 17:23:08 there were 2 of us.... Feb 22 17:23:11 to build moblin trunk with osc Feb 22 17:23:14 we had priorities... Feb 22 17:23:16 lbt, is there a read only login you could leave on wiki page Feb 22 17:23:17 i need the login to get mer specific files, which i *could* in theory build myself, but it would be much easier just to have a login Feb 22 17:23:23 lcuk: no Feb 22 17:23:38 I need to type "osc co moblin ; osc build" dont I ? Feb 22 17:23:43 lbt: not criticizing, just trying to understand how it fits together Feb 22 17:23:57 ali1234: yep -- frankly we didn't have the bandwidth to deal with "I don't want an account" people Feb 22 17:24:02 ali1234, even if you wanted to build everything locally, to access and download the files you need a login Feb 22 17:24:58 lbt where are you storing the other mer stuff - mp3 stuff? Feb 22 17:25:07 or is that simply not a part of mer at this time Feb 22 17:25:18 it's not Feb 22 17:26:25 i guess that restriction hits quite a number of packages Feb 22 17:26:33 will meego have the same issue? Feb 22 17:26:39 since that will be based on obs Feb 22 17:27:43 these are all issues with the free service Feb 22 17:27:45 no, it is a polciy issue Feb 22 17:27:47 policy decisions Feb 22 17:27:50 heh Feb 22 17:27:52 lbt > is the last moblin trunk in OBS ? or is there only opensuse customized image of moblin there ? Feb 22 17:27:59 due to legalities in germany Feb 22 17:28:11 VLJ: only opensuse Feb 22 17:28:32 I don't know the plans around meego obs Feb 22 17:28:44 if I want to build vanilla moblin, what is the procedure ? Feb 22 17:28:57 so big company can push the packages that free ones cannot? Feb 22 17:29:22 lcuk you pay for software from big company Feb 22 17:29:31 licencees fee are included in the price Feb 22 17:29:32 VLJ, same open source packages Feb 22 17:29:38 mplayer Feb 22 17:29:42 mp3 codecs etc Feb 22 17:29:49 mplayer is not legal in germany I think Feb 22 17:30:20 mp3 encoding is protected by patents Feb 22 17:30:28 and mp3 decoding too Feb 22 17:30:30 so will meego have problems building a complete stack using the obs servers Feb 22 17:30:36 is what i am wondering Feb 22 17:30:40 not at all Feb 22 17:30:52 it won't use the Novell service Feb 22 17:31:08 so will be free to decide policy Feb 22 17:31:23 and I think Intel can handle hosting mplayer :) Feb 22 17:31:37 that makes sense now Feb 22 17:31:38 mp3 is not the only available audio format out there anyway... Feb 22 17:31:51 VLJ, was just an example Feb 22 17:32:06 from what i understand theres a whole swath of open source stuff that cannot be built in obs Feb 22 17:32:10 you can convert all your media files to free ones Feb 22 17:33:16 VLJ, you can, but how do you tell someone who has bought 3000 tracks from amazon that work everywhere else they cannot use them here Feb 22 17:33:25 errr there Feb 22 17:33:34 we are i nthe wrong chan for htis Feb 22 17:33:58 you can tell him that he paid for "everywhere else" ;) Feb 22 17:34:18 every device manufacturers pay licences fee Feb 22 17:34:57 I think that boxed version of opensuse ship with mp3 codecs Feb 22 17:35:10 lcuk: people have to learn why patents are bad at some point Feb 22 17:35:23 Votan did you find the tutorial ? Feb 22 17:36:03 ali1234, yes, but it wont be in meego if the build doesnt have the restriction Feb 22 17:36:35 generic meego is unlikely to have mp3 support, but i guess device manufacturers will add it (after paying the licence) Feb 22 17:37:35 lbt: one last question, do i need to install the debian qemu on ubuntu, if i'm only building for x86? Feb 22 17:37:42 no Feb 22 17:37:50 thanks Feb 22 17:37:59 although if you follow the Mer build tutorial Feb 22 17:38:12 you may find you're building for arm without realising it :) Feb 22 17:38:12 Mer can run on a desktop pc ? Feb 22 17:38:16 yes Feb 22 17:38:21 with xorg ? Feb 22 17:38:23 and hildon ? Feb 22 17:38:28 lbt: i only want to build moblin... Feb 22 17:38:29 not really the target though Feb 22 17:39:08 btw what will happen to hildon, as meego interface is the one from moblin ? Feb 22 17:39:25 VLJ: meego will have multiple interfaces Feb 22 17:39:59 ux? Feb 22 17:40:32 what happened to hildon in maemo 6 ? Feb 22 17:44:21 arjan, past tense when Maemo 6 is not released yet? :) Feb 22 17:45:36 arjan, who the hell knows. ;) Feb 22 17:45:43 nobody Feb 22 17:45:47 er, maemo 6 is not meego? Feb 22 17:45:54 kebax, . . . sort of? Feb 22 17:46:14 how up to date are packages in opensuse moblin tree ? Feb 22 17:46:25 kebax: maemo6 is vaporware until it ships Feb 22 17:46:31 and meego is vaporware until it ships Feb 22 17:46:43 so, there's no way to know until they both ship Feb 22 17:46:49 the maemo6 schedule is unknown Feb 22 17:46:55 but moblin 2.2 is not vaporware? Feb 22 17:47:00 collectively, that means the answers are entirely unknown Feb 22 17:47:33 http://moblin.org/downloads doesn't list moblin 2.1 Feb 22 17:47:43 kebax: what we heard was that maemo6 will be re-branded as meego, that's all Feb 22 17:47:53 kebax: we didn't know when it'd be out, we still don't know :) Feb 22 17:47:54 so by the powers vested in me as a native English speaker, i do hereby claim that moblin 2.2 is also vaporware Feb 22 17:48:24 and actually, i'm under the (possibly mistaken) impression that moblin 2.2 will never exist, and will instead be meego something x.y Feb 22 17:48:27 er, moblin 2.1 is there alright Feb 22 17:48:35 where something, x, and y are all unknown to me at this time :) Feb 22 17:48:37 I have even ran it Feb 22 17:48:51 i've used moblin 2.1 too Feb 22 17:48:53 but you asked about 2.2 Feb 22 17:49:29 My guess is something like: Meego 1.0 for handelds (M6) and Meego 1.0 for netbooks (M2.2) Feb 22 17:49:42 now your turn Feb 22 17:49:47 guessing is expensive Feb 22 17:49:54 naaah Feb 22 17:49:56 i'd rather let someone else read the tea leaves Feb 22 17:49:59 mine is pretty cheap Feb 22 17:50:09 but I use random guesses Feb 22 17:50:21 personally, i'd hope their initial release would be 0.x Feb 22 17:50:37 and what about Meego 1.0 for workgroups? Feb 22 17:50:38 19:47 < timeless_mbp> http://moblin.org/downloads doesn't list moblin 2.1 Feb 22 17:50:38 :) Feb 22 17:50:49 gah Feb 22 17:50:55 lbt: hmm... so if i don't have a novell login, what do i enter when i run osc? Feb 22 17:50:57 kebax: sorry, thought transference failure Feb 22 17:51:06 kebax: the power vested in him as a native English speaker allow him to do typos Feb 22 17:51:11 i obviously meant to say 'doesn't list 2.2' in response to your question about 2.2 Feb 22 17:51:12 ali1234: whatever you like, it won't work Feb 22 17:51:25 okay Feb 22 17:51:27 lbt: so then i must run build directly? Feb 22 17:51:36 BTW how can I run moblin image creator 2 under opensuse ? Feb 22 17:52:06 the package in the git repo of mic2 miss some dependencies Feb 22 17:52:10 ali1234: seriously... how much of my time do you want to waste because you don't want a novell login? Please don't be so selfish :) Feb 22 17:52:28 lbt: i do not understand why i need one Feb 22 17:52:40 lbt: i do not want to compile any project which exists on a opensuse server Feb 22 17:52:47 Because we're using the novell service at the moment Feb 22 17:53:03 when you use another OBS, you'lll need a login for that Feb 22 17:53:27 lbt: so the osc / build tools cannot in fact be used without a remote server? Feb 22 17:53:30 if you want to support anonymous usage then work with us on the OBS and help design a solution Feb 22 17:53:58 ali1234: they need to work with an OBS at setup time Feb 22 17:54:14 just like you can't use apt-get without a remote http server Feb 22 17:54:26 i can use it with my local http server... Feb 22 17:54:32 lbt > the moblin image from obs will erase all the disk ? Feb 22 17:54:35 you can setup a local OBS Feb 22 17:54:38 I have one here Feb 22 17:54:45 in fact i can use it with the local apt-cache Feb 22 17:54:45 I need to login to it Feb 22 17:54:58 so, when you said i don't need a login, that actually wasn't true :) Feb 22 17:55:08 anyway, afk for a bit Feb 22 17:55:10 context? Feb 22 17:55:14 apt-get can use local server alright Feb 22 17:55:44 kebax: no? really? Feb 22 17:55:47 yeah, windows breaks lines on non-breakable spaces Feb 22 17:57:04 I'd like to have a moblin partition, and not a one partition disk for moblin Feb 22 17:57:39 the goblin image from novell forge did not allow several partitions Feb 22 17:58:53 VLJ apparently the tut got pulled off the site ... i tried with google cache, but wasnt able to find it either, sry :( Feb 22 17:59:40 so obs is the only way atm to build moblin Feb 22 18:00:23 hello everyone Feb 22 18:04:24 it would be nice to go from ethernet to wifi without having to reconenct Feb 22 18:04:40 no git.meego.org yet? Feb 22 18:05:15 blino you know how to build moblin ? Feb 22 18:06:09 in some very peculiar way, yes Feb 22 18:06:34 how ? Feb 22 18:06:37 :) Feb 22 18:07:09 well, I work at Mandriva, and we do not rebuild the Moblin packages directly, but we merge the packages in our distribution Feb 22 18:07:26 ho k Feb 22 18:12:45 Votan: sorry, was in a meeting, yes we do, no official announcement has been made for public images yet Feb 22 18:14:51 damien_l: are the public packages and git repos going to be put back online soon? Feb 22 18:17:07 blino: git repos have always been there, as for the official public packages I think some time is still needed Feb 22 18:17:38 damien_l: git.meego.org is unreachable right now, transient issue maybe... Feb 22 18:17:51 damien_l: well, the packages used to be online for a few hours, this week-end :) Feb 22 18:19:36 blino: I'm talking about http://git.moblin.org/, no one uses git.meego.org AFAIK Feb 22 18:20:14 you can see commits in the last hours on git.moblin.org Feb 22 18:20:44 damien_l: the MeeGo website already points to git.meego.org :) Feb 22 18:21:15 that's future-proof but it's not reality as we speak :p Feb 22 18:22:39 could someone please poke the irc log host? the search doesn't exist Feb 22 18:23:36 damien_l no official statement on public builds means u could unofficial link to one ? :> Feb 22 18:27:51 that does not mean anything else than "not ready yet" : Feb 22 18:28:07 salut damien :) Feb 22 18:28:40 hello Feb 22 18:29:38 megabast: salut (I guess I know you?) Feb 22 18:30:17 damien_l: I just suppose that you're french as I am Feb 22 18:30:25 anyone familiar with molbin? Feb 22 18:30:56 megabast: ooh, then you're right :p Feb 22 18:31:16 molbin? doesn't ring a bell :) Feb 22 18:31:20 damien_l: hehe ;) Feb 22 18:31:48 zaizafoon: molbin = moblin? Feb 22 18:31:56 molbin is a linux dist Feb 22 18:32:00 moreblin Feb 22 18:32:31 i know they have a room on this server Feb 22 18:33:00 ask you're question zaizafoon Feb 22 18:33:03 rumours! Feb 22 18:33:07 it's easier Feb 22 18:33:12 lol Votan Feb 22 18:33:21 ;> Feb 22 18:33:21 No, this server does not support AOL rooms. You should check on AOL Feb 22 18:34:01 mega i want to add a language support Feb 22 18:34:09 you can ask stuff about moblin in here, just like you can ask stuff about maemo here Feb 22 18:34:29 auke thanks Feb 22 18:34:46 there's an l10n mailinglist, and there is the existing translation projects for moblin and maemo Feb 22 18:35:10 zaizafoon: l10n@moblin.org is the mailing list Feb 22 18:35:12 http://moblin.org/projects/localization-l10n Feb 22 18:35:18 there ya go :) Feb 22 18:35:28 translations.moblin.org Feb 22 18:35:53 err Feb 22 18:35:55 that's wrong Feb 22 18:35:57 http://translate.moblin.org/projects/ Feb 22 18:37:13 lbt: context: http://fpaste.org/zyGP/ <- you forgot to mention the part where a login on a OBS server is mandatory Feb 22 18:38:55 although i'm not clear on what purpose it serves if "it runs locally" as you say Feb 22 18:43:51 so whats the problem getting a login if you want it done? Feb 22 18:44:52 well, there's also openid which is sort of made for people who don't like to have logins everywhere... Feb 22 18:45:11 kebax: getting it done is less important to me than knowing how to do it Feb 22 18:45:33 leinir that's why one should use keepasss:) Feb 22 18:51:11 so it looks like to use OBS to compile moblin, i need to: setup an OBS server, create an account on it, create a new project, upload all moblin source, then check out my project with osc, and only then can i actually use osc to build something Feb 22 18:51:36 you make it sound complicated ;) Feb 22 18:51:39 if i use the opensuse server, i get to skip the first step. woohoo Feb 22 18:52:34 ali where r u from? Feb 22 18:53:19 zaizafoon: united kingdom Feb 22 18:54:53 iam from kuwait Feb 22 18:56:10 the main problem i have with using the opensuse server is that i doubt they will give me as much CPU time as i have sitting idle here Feb 22 18:57:03 but i suppose if i am building locally that doesn't matter Feb 22 19:03:02 * Cosmo[PB] wonders if meego will run on a PII with a Nvidia 6200 Feb 22 19:04:32 PII? wow Feb 22 19:04:36 currently won't Feb 22 19:04:50 not unless you rebuild Feb 22 19:04:51 need SSSE3 instructions Feb 22 19:06:16 Hi all... Feb 22 19:06:53 Pls don't shoot but i'm just joining for a quick question.... Feb 22 19:07:21 oh "please" Feb 22 19:07:27 i thought you meant pentium 1 for a second Feb 22 19:08:05 mutrax, yes, meego is really the new name Feb 22 19:08:17 ;) Feb 22 19:09:10 hehehe.. naah , probeabely heared it a few times... but will the N900 be still worth buying, meego upgradable? Feb 22 19:09:40 dang, i was going to answer that one too Feb 22 19:09:57 btw.. meego is pretty cool for a name.. good thing intel & nokia partnering up instead of compeeting... Feb 22 19:09:58 mutrax, no official word, however, there will likely be a community port if not Feb 22 19:10:21 at least there's been talk of a community maintained port Feb 22 19:10:49 I, too, am thinking about buying N900, but thought I better wait till things are clear Feb 22 19:11:07 ah.... thanks for the answer... I was guessing to.. I just needed a portable linux device.. better to wait a bit and go about with the laptop ;) Feb 22 19:11:08 i just bought one Feb 22 19:11:09 ;) Feb 22 19:11:54 evrything they say it is? can you install .deb apps? Feb 22 19:12:09 well at least if they are ported Feb 22 19:12:10 meego will use rpm Feb 22 19:13:07 well a rpm or a deb is just a packeged software Feb 22 19:13:26 so if the question is, can i install other apps, the answer is yet Feb 22 19:13:28 yes8 Feb 22 19:13:37 yah.. so I heared... guess Intel won that discussion ..... ;) I'm a big Debian / ubuntu convert.. to much frills on RH/suse Feb 22 19:14:10 nicenice.. I need it mostly for openvpn and ssh sessions Feb 22 19:14:26 mutrax: you're not missing anything with the switch to rpm, nokia completely screwed up the implementation of debs anyway Feb 22 19:14:33 lol Feb 22 19:14:42 if you are used to debian/ubuntu you will hate how maemo uses debs Feb 22 19:15:24 hmmmm.. good to know... So its defenitly worth the wait for the first meego device. Feb 22 19:15:48 unless you want to gamble on meego getting ported to the N900, which there is currently no definitive answer on Feb 22 19:16:22 ali1234: Nokia didn't screw the debs, but their contents Feb 22 19:16:36 they also screwed the versions and the depends Feb 22 19:17:28 naah.. not that big of a spender on cell phones to be buiny 2 600€ phones in one year... I just need *nix phone that can load openvpn, surf a bit and do some ssh'in.. the rest will be just for fun (Moehahaha) Feb 22 19:17:30 Maybe Stskeeps can try porting MeeGo to N900 ;) Feb 22 19:17:32 ali1234: the used outdated version. rpm/deb is not relevant. the dependencies and the package policies are Feb 22 19:17:48 Although, based on my experience it may be problematic Feb 22 19:17:55 t-tan: agreed. using deb or rpm is meaningless if you don't use them properly Feb 22 19:18:07 the question is not whether Nokia will port MeeGo but whether they will port or open the proprietary drivers Feb 22 19:18:33 descent package manager are the only thing that make *nix devices/system idiot proof and for the masses Feb 22 19:19:15 * tripzero isn't worried Feb 22 19:19:17 t-tan: kernel is open and userland is a matter of asking the right people. Feb 22 19:19:33 i am not worried either. Feb 22 19:19:56 well, i created a OBS account Feb 22 19:20:09 t-tan: titan on tmo? Feb 22 19:20:20 Stskeeps: correct :) Feb 22 19:20:21 i can't use it to build moblin, because the moblin repo isn't one of the available build repositories Feb 22 19:21:20 t-tan: can we sit at some point and talk debian mobile so i can keep you from shooting yourself in the foot on many issues? not now, but an hour one on one at some point Feb 22 19:21:41 (this is not a rpm vs deb talk) Feb 22 19:21:42 Anyhuew.. thanks for taking the time answering my questions.. goodnight... Feb 22 19:22:08 hi all Feb 22 19:22:17 it's no a "binary" problem but matter of how difficult it is, e.g. to update the 3D driver Feb 22 19:22:42 Stskeeps: thanks. we should meet together with yoush Feb 22 19:23:06 t-tan: 3d driver doesn't care about anything than libc and x linking Feb 22 19:23:45 this is a big channel considering meego is relatively new Feb 22 19:23:47 :D Feb 22 19:24:01 im hoping the hardware on n900 can cope with it Feb 22 19:24:03 Stskeeps: so, the Fedora port could have 3D working pretty easily? meaning clutter-based UI ? Feb 22 19:24:37 blino: check my blip.tv video on twitter.com/stskeeps Feb 22 19:24:47 Stskeeps: that's what I expected and that's why I believe that it should be feasible to replace the outdate Maemo based with a more recent Debian base Feb 22 19:25:36 t-tan: right, except it's deeper than that.. but lemme get to my laptop before i can explain further Feb 22 19:26:18 t-tan: check out Maemo:Mer:Devel:2.0:Test2 project on build.opensuse.org Feb 22 19:26:27 ... but sometime in the future we might get some incompatibilities with new X.org versions Feb 22 19:26:37 Stskeeps: ok, thanks. I will wait. Feb 22 19:26:54 check out that project meanwhile Feb 22 19:27:13 if meego is just software packaged configured in a specific way, you should be able to port it by recompiling the packaged Feb 22 19:31:03 hmm build seems almost exactly the same as mock... maybe i can use it directly and skip this OBS nonsense Feb 22 19:32:45 t-tan: what you are looking at is m5 free parts plus some closed dependancy replacements/packages Feb 22 19:32:52 built on top of lenny Feb 22 19:32:58 with some tricks Feb 22 19:33:27 Stskeeps: I'm just creating an account to access the page Feb 22 19:33:31 you need to really rape your debootstrapped chroot but it works and is api compatible Feb 22 19:33:57 Stskeeps: our plans is to keep and to repackage the original Nokia binaries for now Feb 22 19:34:08 yes, i know Feb 22 19:34:28 same here, but not the base system Feb 22 19:34:50 remember to not change the paths of the libraries the closed software depends on Feb 22 19:35:52 thiago_home: if it doesnt work with more recent free libraries, we just keep the original libraries somewhere else and apply chrpath Feb 22 19:36:34 t-tan: and change all the strings inside the binary that contain paths? Feb 22 19:36:40 also patch any code that concatenates paths? Feb 22 19:37:15 thiago_home: I'm refering to paths of library dependencies Feb 22 19:37:40 and I'm referring to paths that the binary may have hardcoded Feb 22 19:37:52 including paths coming from dependencies Feb 22 19:38:23 thiago_home: do you have concrete examples of paths we would have to change? Feb 22 19:38:37 no, but I can conjure up examples Feb 22 19:38:57 the Qt plugin dir, for example Feb 22 19:39:01 it would be easier to create symlinks Feb 22 19:39:14 yes, but you have to find them all in the first place Feb 22 19:39:20 which is why "don't move" is easier Feb 22 19:39:53 we'll see whether moving is necessary at all Feb 22 19:43:05 Stskeeps: ok, I finally got access to the project page... Feb 22 19:44:49 Stskeeps: I'm not sure whether we'll start with a fully debootstrapped chroot or with selectively installing packages from lenny in a Maemo5 chroot Feb 22 19:50:22 t-tan: also, i have to ask the golden question.. Why are you doing it? :P Feb 22 19:51:32 Stskeeps: I want to have the same distribution on my differences machines. I want to be able to install all software availble in the repositories Feb 22 19:51:33 i mean, yes, debian repos is interesting but jebba's build of etch solves a lot of issues Feb 22 19:52:21 jebba's work is nice but still based on etch and still an ugly workaround Feb 22 19:52:30 :nod: Feb 22 19:53:14 the whole /optification is a mess and I believe I know how to do things better than Maemo5 Feb 22 19:53:30 right, guess where i started out? Feb 22 19:53:31 :P Feb 22 19:53:48 :) the improvements should not be too difficult to implement Feb 22 19:54:09 please keep that as quote :D Feb 22 19:54:16 ...years later Feb 22 19:55:17 right, so your goal is to have, basically, maemo5 on top of debian, right? Feb 22 19:55:28 and use some closed packages to fill the void, to have a proper OS Feb 22 19:55:43 the eMMC size cannot be changed Feb 22 19:56:06 correct. so that I can continue using all functions + get Easy Debian integrated. Feb 22 19:56:07 you mean NAND Feb 22 19:56:17 it can however be mounted in a different place Feb 22 19:56:20 neither can be changed :) Feb 22 19:56:33 ali1234: where else other than / would you want it? Feb 22 19:56:35 yes, mounting is trick Feb 22 19:56:55 thiago_home: eMMC on /? that's exactly what i *would* have done :) Feb 22 19:56:56 say unionfs/aufs\ and i'll have to beat you with a stick Feb 22 19:57:14 anyway, t-tan, let's take this in #mer since it's closer to mer^2, not meego Feb 22 19:57:30 I'm using symlinks to NAND for now. (ch)root is on eMMC Feb 22 19:58:17 Stskeeps: ok, maybe lets schedule a meeting together with other people involved Feb 22 19:58:18 t-tan: so the fast memory is not the boot device? Feb 22 19:59:01 thiago: there are two options: eMMC is boot or chroot very early to eMMC Feb 22 19:59:15 don't know whether the latter is feasible Feb 22 19:59:34 t-tan: but if your goal is to put maemo5 stack on top of debian5, then you want mer^2 which has that as goal. it is closer in terms of init scripts, bootup sequence, to fremantle than to debian. Feb 22 19:59:36 early = during boot Feb 22 19:59:44 t-tan: no need to duplicate work in that regard Feb 22 20:00:23 the fremantle initscripts are pretty lame Feb 22 20:00:27 Stskeeps: I know that there is large overlap interests and we are still in planning phase Feb 22 20:00:32 one missing file = endless reboot Feb 22 20:00:35 but then it's no longer 'debian mobile' and it's centered around a certain type of devices Feb 22 20:00:56 and all services are started by X Feb 22 20:01:02 we definitely don't want to reinvent the wheel - that's why want to use as much Debian as possible Feb 22 20:01:02 cos it will be lightyears before you replace all items of maemo5 Feb 22 20:01:18 with open parts Feb 22 20:01:19 t-tan: I see. Boot to NAND, then chroot to a special dir that has the rest of the system, with /bin, /lib, /sbin, /etc, etc. bind-mounted? Feb 22 20:01:56 I'm pretty sure you can live with the rootfs not being in NAND, if that's your primary motivation. Feb 22 20:02:01 thiago_home: exactly. ideally dual boot so that you can always fall-back to Maemo5 Feb 22 20:02:07 t-tan: but anyway, mer^2 works on x86 too. so it should work on n900 too. Feb 22 20:02:22 The speed hit shouldn't be that much noticeable if you either disable swap or move it somewhere else. Feb 22 20:02:34 t-tan: most applications live in /usr, so you'd want the most often-used apps to be in the faster memory. Feb 22 20:02:35 t-tan: please keep in mind it is a lot of effort for no visible user effect :P Feb 22 20:02:36 Stskeeps: yes, for now its N900 specific but the N900 changes should be kept separate Feb 22 20:02:50 t-tan: of course, they'd have to be for x86, n8x0 too Feb 22 20:02:51 :P Feb 22 20:03:45 Stskeeps: the most visible user effect is the absense of the /opt problem Feb 22 20:04:07 how is that a user problem? Feb 22 20:04:12 the user doesn't care or see /opt Feb 22 20:04:16 t-tan: that's solvable with a maemo fix easily. look at lcuk's boottime opt Feb 22 20:04:23 unless the user wants to install something that hasn't been packaged for them Feb 22 20:04:44 t-tan: and to add more fuel to the fire, clone to SD has been done for ages by people Feb 22 20:04:47 :P Feb 22 20:05:01 ali1234: which is something he shouldn't be doing in the first place. Feb 22 20:05:06 i think the biggest win would be switching to a sane init that supports console fallback and proper services Feb 22 20:05:52 ability to install a toolchain on the device is just extra payoff Feb 22 20:06:14 all those solutions can be reused. we don't need to reinvent. that's why I hope it's no too much effort Feb 22 20:06:36 t-tan: anyway, i'm doing mer^2 for three reasons, n8x0 backport, fremantle afterlife on n900 and harmattan on n900 if it turns out nokia isn't bringing it back. that's visible user effect. Feb 22 20:06:42 javispedro: all Debian packages are not packaged for the user Feb 22 20:06:43 it's a foundation to do easy backports Feb 22 20:07:06 Stskeeps: and I fully support that Feb 22 20:07:13 t-tan: most debian etch packages are packaged actually. Feb 22 20:07:17 if anyone wants to apply tricks on top of that, be my guest Feb 22 20:07:34 javispedro: rebuild, but send through QA? Feb 22 20:08:33 t-tan: but optified Feb 22 20:08:54 t-tan: but anyway, i'm just saying it's stupid to run two seperate projects :) Feb 22 20:08:56 another advantage is that I could install test selective modifications to core firmware packages (e.g ke-recv) without breaking the device Feb 22 20:09:11 There's no chance we can apply the currently required testing by the Maemo QA on each and every Debian package. Feb 22 20:09:44 my goal is to install the original Debian packages Feb 22 20:09:52 which are not Maemo' QA'd either. Feb 22 20:10:21 sure. because the system will be Debian with a Maemo compatibilty layer Feb 22 20:11:12 * lbt looks ack at the easy-debian references... Feb 22 20:11:26 Stskeeps: if we can somehow tweak Mer to suit our needs that would be best solution Feb 22 20:11:46 t-tan: saw my screenshot of how realistic the goal actually is? Feb 22 20:12:01 Stskeeps: which one? Feb 22 20:12:25 http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer2-imageviewer.png Feb 22 20:14:03 Stskeeps: I'm missing the context. you mean the Nokia image viewer wont work, or does already work? Feb 22 20:14:09 t-tan: works. Feb 22 20:14:13 strings is just a small issue :) Feb 22 20:14:44 so my optimism is justified :) Feb 22 20:15:11 yes, but to say it in the nicest way posible, i said "Yes, do as I say!" at least once while building the image Feb 22 20:16:07 the N900 is a nice device to talk you :D. We'll convince it! Feb 22 20:16:13 s/you/to/ Feb 22 20:16:13 t-tan meant: the N900 is a nice device to talk to :D. We'll convince it! Feb 22 20:16:26 oh, hello infobot Feb 22 20:16:30 offer it candy? Feb 22 20:23:52 * leinir is looking forward to Mer/MeeGo on the touchbook ;) Feb 22 20:24:49 collaberative maps for n900 owners: where in the world are you? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45094&page=9 Feb 22 21:03:07 t-tan: no evenings UTC+2 for me, mon-wed-fri, always at polish classes there :P Feb 22 21:04:29 Stskeeps: I see. (and we need a IRC<->TMO translator :) Feb 22 21:04:41 i can post on tmo but it's past my bedtime ;) Feb 22 21:06:56 hmm, lots schedule conflicts. maybe should stick to the tmo thread for now? Feb 22 21:07:02 maybe Feb 22 21:07:11 i hope to have some real demos out of mer^2 sooner or later Feb 22 21:08:01 Stskeeps: it would be nice if you could just drop a few lines in thread Feb 22 21:09:22 ...when you have time (but please not in polish :) Feb 22 21:09:31 i'm danish :P Feb 22 21:09:41 just living abroad :) Feb 22 21:10:10 I know, but you're learning it. danish would be difficult to understand as well Feb 22 21:12:13 Maemo is Finnished, Mer is Polished.. :) Feb 22 21:14:39 t-tan: come on, polish is not bad. and if you redirect all sibilance to /dev/null, you can even enjoy a quiet afternoon.. Feb 22 21:15:27 heinz: who claimed that Mer would be bad? Feb 22 21:16:24 surely not me... Feb 22 21:17:05 * heinz looks around in despair. Feb 22 21:22:14 wb zerojay, ezjd and anaZ Feb 22 21:25:36 lo Stskeeps Feb 22 21:26:32 Stskeeps: I guess it was a busy week for you guys with the emails, IRC, forum posts ... :) Feb 22 21:26:59 damn straight Feb 22 21:27:00 :P Feb 22 22:02:57 err Feb 22 22:03:13 the repo for moblin image creator dont work anymore Feb 22 23:30:48 * timeless_mbp ponders Feb 22 23:31:12 * tripzero prays Feb 22 23:31:55 * lainwir3d dies Feb 22 23:32:05 * tripzero morns Feb 22 23:32:32 hi all Feb 22 23:33:00 hey timeless_mbp , how's you? Feb 22 23:33:04 hey timeless_mbp how goes? I havent looked at that server. Happily doing what u want now? Feb 22 23:33:06 * timeless_mbp is looking for someone Feb 22 23:33:09 heh Feb 22 23:33:15 u found 2 Feb 22 23:33:15 jebba900: it seems to work Feb 22 23:33:20 cool Feb 22 23:34:37 that's more than i can say for my irc client Feb 22 23:35:23 jebba900: i could probably use a dns entry somewhere Feb 22 23:36:04 ok, i'll map it to something in freemoe if you want. suggestions welcome. Feb 22 23:36:12 mxr. Feb 22 23:36:46 i'm on an airplane getting ready to take off for argentina... so ping me later this week if i dont ping u first. Feb 22 23:37:06 mxr it shall be Feb 22 23:39:01 hey Feb 22 23:39:26 i know this has come up a 100 times but has there been anything official about meego on n900 Feb 22 23:39:45 i want to buy an n900 but i dont want to get stuck with a device that will get no updates Feb 22 23:40:26 bashir, i just bought the n900 Feb 22 23:41:14 tripzero it looks likea great device Feb 22 23:41:16 bashir: so, there is at least one big update coming Feb 22 23:41:22 because A, i doubt meego will replace anything anytime soon. B, there will likely be community provided updates for the n900, C, i can port stuff myself if i have to Feb 22 23:41:26 and it's likely there's going to be another one after that Feb 22 23:41:41 but meego isn't likely to be relevant to any nokia hardware for a really long time Feb 22 23:41:51 timeless_mbp, +1 :) Feb 22 23:41:51 hmm i see Feb 22 23:41:53 and your n900 will work for a long time w/ or w/o the update Feb 22 23:41:54 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45213 Feb 22 23:41:57 or any updates Feb 22 23:41:58 this post talk about it Feb 22 23:42:17 yeah, that url is a better writeup Feb 22 23:42:36 awesome becaue this was the first time i saw one for under $400 and was seriously interested Feb 22 23:42:52 because i love linux and i am a software developer Feb 22 23:43:02 under 400? blast... :( Feb 22 23:43:15 under 400? :o where? Feb 22 23:43:29 ebay Feb 22 23:43:40 do buy it now and sort cheapest first Feb 22 23:45:29 ok i think i will buy it Feb 22 23:45:45 my lastphone purchase was 2 years ago an iphone 2g for $250 Feb 22 23:45:58 which was crazy cheap at the time Feb 22 23:46:52 just bought it Feb 23 00:25:48 * Cosmo[PB] wonders what he's missed Feb 23 00:43:47 now I'm thinking of Big Dick from the Carry On film Feb 23 00:44:43 Thought you all might like these: Feb 23 00:44:44 http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/devotion_to_duty.png Feb 23 00:44:50 http://www.iamboredr.com/files/88d43c91a3bf.jpg Feb 23 00:45:08 rofl Feb 23 00:54:12 night night Feb 23 02:57:23 hi **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 23 02:59:58 2010