**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Mar 02 02:59:58 2010 Mar 02 03:43:58 are there existing devices that meego will support when it becomes available? Mar 02 04:08:17 Tobarja: since meego is roughly speaking vaporware Mar 02 04:08:25 and comes in an unknown number of flavors Mar 02 04:09:19 Tobarja: the most likely candidates are devices which currently run either moblin 2.1 or maemo 5 Mar 02 04:09:26 however that's definitely not a guarantee Mar 02 04:10:12 timeless_mbp: ok, thanks. Mar 02 06:29:52 evening. Mar 02 06:30:05 is there any code anywhere yet? Mar 02 06:30:49 there's moblin code in mxr.moego.org Mar 02 06:30:56 there's maemo code in mxr.maemo.org Mar 02 06:31:05 there's maemo code in maemo.gitorious.org Mar 02 06:31:20 okay, I already have those noted. Mar 02 06:31:21 there's moblin code in git.moblin.org Mar 02 06:31:31 there's code all over the world Mar 02 06:31:32 I get the point. Mar 02 06:31:49 sorry, I should have been more specifci :) Mar 02 06:31:55 s/fci/fic/ Mar 02 06:32:13 i think it's a safe bet that when the answer changes, it'll make news in various places Mar 02 06:32:24 I understand Mar 02 06:32:30 it just makes me wonder what companies like OpenPeak are using Mar 02 06:33:28 apache?, at least openpeak.org seems to be =b Mar 02 06:33:40 ;) Mar 02 06:33:54 i mean, you get my point, I see announcements for LOTS of different devices Mar 02 06:33:59 supposedly "based on meego" Mar 02 06:34:04 all for the second half of 2010 Mar 02 06:34:19 what, are these guys all at the starting line in Feb? or are they using hacked together toolchains, or? Mar 02 06:34:36 They took the code from above, printed it out, double sided, soy-based ink, put it in a blender, added 49 eggs, activated blender for 15 minutes, baked in oven for 20 minutes. Delicious cake Mar 02 06:34:48 i'd assume moblin Mar 02 06:35:00 hm ok Mar 02 06:35:07 just a random guess Mar 02 06:35:15 i don't have much experience w/ moblin, i've run it in one vm Mar 02 06:35:42 <-- lead developer of LinuxMCE, as well as a hardware/industrial designer. Mar 02 06:35:53 and i picked up an eeepc (701) which i'd like to run moblin on Mar 02 06:35:55 (among other things) Mar 02 06:36:00 ouch, not gonna happen Mar 02 06:36:03 (i know it isn't supported, but there was a blog about it) Mar 02 06:42:45 701's are sloooooow Mar 02 06:42:59 they underclocked the cpu on those guys Mar 02 06:43:04 to fit in the power envelope Mar 02 06:50:31 arjan: yeah, i know you warned me, but i imported the 701 for a friend a while ago Mar 02 06:50:46 and it hasn't been used much, so it was lying around Mar 02 07:56:16 morn Mar 02 07:56:21 morning mirv Mar 02 08:14:25 ohai peeps Mar 02 08:20:23 ohai Myrtti Mar 02 09:58:53 There are I think three battery-powered powered USB hubs, all of which are hard to find nowadays. Mar 02 09:59:04 whoops, wrong room. Mar 02 09:59:21 why not just get a normal usb hub, a battery back and a 5v regulator? Mar 02 09:59:54 at some point I will try that with a wifi webcam Mar 02 10:00:15 Please post results methodology and results somewhere google will index it. Mar 02 10:00:28 man i can't even compose sentences. I should go to bed. Mar 02 10:00:32 ? Mar 02 10:00:41 wanna give that one another go? Mar 02 10:01:05 Please post results and methodology somewhere Google will index it. Mar 02 10:01:26 i think my website is already indexed Mar 02 10:52:57 i have a quastion about meego...will meego work on the n900? Mar 02 10:53:13 most likely Mar 02 10:56:08 hmm...so it's better to wait to buy a n900? Mar 02 10:56:36 there is stuff about the n900 on the wiki Mar 02 11:06:34 fantomas: or wait for a new meego device Mar 02 11:17:29 fantomas, you can compile and install whatever os you want on the n900, and with meego supporting arm + x86 you will be able to install meego on it...if your question is: will nokia provide a fully supported meego os for your n900, then the answer is unknown currently even to a lot of people inside nokia Mar 02 11:21:51 hi , will meego be up for Google summer of Code 2010 Mar 02 11:21:52 ? Mar 02 11:29:57 MAheSHGondi410: I doubt it Mar 02 11:30:06 though I might be completely wrong :-) Mar 02 11:30:38 wiki.meego.com search field Go-button gives permission error if not logged in. search button works as expected. Mar 02 11:36:01 MAheSHGondi410: Valerio Valerion (http://www.valeriovalerio.org/) is trying to get something moving on the Summer of Code issue, Maemo participated last year. Mar 02 11:49:11 hkivela: can't reproduce that on the wiki Mar 02 11:50:20 hkivela: issue occurs if you Go to a page which doesn't exist, as you get redirected to the "Create" page; which you can't edit unless you're logged in Mar 02 11:59:10 I can reproduce ... with n900 browser and firefox under mac + linux Mar 02 11:59:21 go to wiki.meego.com, enter "n900" in search box, press Go Mar 02 11:59:29 and be sure you have not logged in Mar 02 11:59:52 "You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reasons: " Mar 02 12:00:14 I think it's user friendly to have search working without registering :) Mar 02 12:00:16 guess that means there isn't a page at the moment and you can't create a new one Mar 02 12:00:31 that happens when pressing Go or enter (keyboard) ... Search button works Mar 02 12:00:32 * CosmoHill hasn't registered Mar 02 12:00:32 I just tried it here on a Mac and it worked Mar 02 12:00:33 hkivela: That means the page with that exact name doesn't exist. Mar 02 12:00:41 hkivela: Go != Search. Mar 02 12:01:06 what should the Go then do? Mar 02 12:01:09 it's in the search form Mar 02 12:01:26 why are there two buttons :) Mar 02 12:01:27 hkivela: If you know the name of a wiki page, you can directly 'GO' to it. Mar 02 12:02:04 ah ok. I guess many users wont get that, they'll just think search is broken Mar 02 12:02:39 hkivela: That is why I removed it in the wiki.maemo.org template. Mar 02 12:07:55 it's a matter of taste - it's pretty much a stock MediaWiki install at the moment - anything which people want to change can be argued for/against (I turned on file uploads last week, for example) Mar 02 12:08:14 meego-community mailing list is most likely to reach the right people Mar 02 12:10:42 would be nice to have a wiki or other page listing all moblin/maemo/meego devices and their characteristics? Mar 02 12:11:02 hkivela: go ahead and make it ;) Mar 02 12:12:24 was expecting that answer ;) Mar 02 12:15:11 It already does at the moment, i.e. it's empty ;) Mar 02 12:19:01 hi Mar 02 12:19:08 why this link is broken http://meego.com/downloads/trunk/repo/ia32/os/image-config/ Mar 02 12:19:36 The meego repo's aren't online yet Mar 02 12:19:47 it'sprobably a place holder Mar 02 12:19:59 originally, when the how to make a meego trunk image where made, they where just a copy of the moblin trunk repo's Mar 02 12:20:27 ok Mar 02 12:24:38 maclaver: where did you get that link from? Mar 02 12:24:41 hmhmh Mar 02 12:24:49 s/maclaver/niqt/ Mar 02 12:25:16 http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation Mar 02 12:26:18 yeah, repo.meego.com is not available anymore Mar 02 12:26:31 and redirects to www.meego.com/download, but no files there Mar 02 12:26:40 the wikipage should probably edited Mar 02 12:58:27 todles Mar 02 13:44:59 Hello meego Mar 02 13:47:21 bye maemo Mar 02 13:48:08 Not so fast I guess :) Mar 02 13:48:30 Maemo is not a code or a trademark only Mar 02 13:48:43 not so fast for meego as well :) Mar 02 13:48:44 yeah true Mar 02 13:50:00 I, personaly, can't be rebranded that fast :P Mar 02 14:00:38 Does meego run on EEE Pc ? Mar 02 14:01:34 I have just tried moblin on my eee its very usable. I have seen that meego is the future ! Mar 02 14:06:35 Pavi: I suppose meego doesn't run now even in intel/nokia's heads :) Mar 02 14:06:47 Pavi: too early to judge or test Mar 02 14:07:25 wazd_e63, ahh ok . I heard something about meego on N900 Mar 02 14:08:41 Pavi: but since moblin runs well on Eeee(e) - I think meego will do the same Mar 02 14:09:39 wazd, ok . Is there a test version which I can try out ? Mar 02 14:09:51 no Mar 02 14:10:32 Pavi: there's no test version yet Mar 02 14:10:35 pavi: read the FAQ, it answers some common questions Mar 02 14:10:55 slaine, hank you Mar 02 14:11:01 *t Mar 02 14:11:03 np Mar 02 14:17:11 sumanah, meet heffer. heffer, sumanah Mar 02 14:17:22 hi heffer Mar 02 14:17:22 hi sumanah \o/ Mar 02 14:17:31 sumanah: heffer is the fellow from Fedora who's trying to pull together (along with a few others) resources for learning RPM packaging Mar 02 14:17:34 which might be helpful to the folks in here Mar 02 14:17:39 right Mar 02 14:17:43 great idea! Mar 02 14:17:57 heffer: sumanah has been around the mobile FOSS world and was the one who tipped me off to the project potentially needing RPM learnin'-fu Mar 02 14:18:06 okay Mar 02 14:18:23 yeah, the day of the meego announcement, people here & in #maemo were all Mar 02 14:18:29 "but how?" Mar 02 14:18:36 so what's our target audience here? people that are developers already? Mar 02 14:18:46 yeah, that's what I'd say Mar 02 14:18:48 at least at first Mar 02 14:18:59 especially people coming from Maemo Mar 02 14:19:01 i feel a little like reading a play atm cos your talk seems very coordinated ;) Mar 02 14:19:12 * sumanah moves stage left Mar 02 14:19:37 sumanah: followed by a bear? Mar 02 14:19:43 :) Mar 02 14:19:54 hi sumana! Mar 02 14:20:01 okay. i think we'll do this as (what we in Fedora call) a FAD (Fedora Activity Day) Mar 02 14:20:31 hi Hydroxide! Mar 02 14:20:34 From what I gathered earlier, people who were doing deb packaging were also doing it via some sort of script helper, so there may be people who may not have directly hand-made packages before. Mar 02 14:20:46 i was thinking of having a IRC Classroom as a basic introduction to RPM Packaging and after that have people package some apps and have folks from Fedora around to do Q&A Mar 02 14:20:49 But I am not sure if this is correct - poor memory + little context = possible misinterpretation ;) Mar 02 14:21:35 we'll be concentrating beautifully hand-crafted spec files :D Mar 02 14:21:40 +on Mar 02 14:21:40 btw, if you want a sense of how people were writing apps for Maemo 5 (Fremantle, runs on the N900): http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman/2009/09/06/n900-tutorial-contents/ Mar 02 14:21:56 heffer: so when I was in Raleigh and asked a couple packagers (who happened to be in the same room at the time for a FAD) how they'd teach packaging, they actually suggested the reverse Mar 02 14:21:56 okay Mar 02 14:22:04 espec http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman/2009/09/06/writing-apps-for-the-n900-part-2-packaging/ on .deb packaging Mar 02 14:22:30 i don't own a N900 unfortunately. but that is still on the todo list. they seem to be out of stock everywhere in germany atm. Mar 02 14:22:53 I don't actually know whether Meego will end up running on the N900 or just on future devices Mar 02 14:23:13 mchua, first Q&A then the Classroom? Mar 02 14:23:46 heffer: I think the Q&A and IRC classroom on RPM packaging sounds like a fine idea; Quim Gil might have more ideas http://flors.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/maemo-moblin-meego-join-us/ Mar 02 14:24:34 sumanah, great. thanks for the links. Mar 02 14:24:58 heffer: Yeah, 4-step process Mar 02 14:25:08 1) read general rpm-intro docs to get an idea of what this "packaging" thing is Mar 02 14:25:26 heffer: also, http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-February/thread.html includes mega-discussion about "RPMs vs DEB" in case you want to pick up possible helpers or sample questions there Mar 02 14:25:39 or go insane in the process Mar 02 14:25:40 2) have a set of existing (already-packaged) simple packages - don't look at the spec files, but try to package those items, then do a diff between your spec file and the "real" one to "check your work" and ask questions on the diffs Mar 02 14:25:45 sumanah, yeah. i followed that thread for a while :) Mar 02 14:26:00 mchua, that sounds like a good idea Mar 02 14:26:15 3) once that's comfy, then pick a package (meego package, in this case I suppose) that *hasn't* been packaged, and go through it as far as possible before you get stuck, before the classroom Mar 02 14:26:31 4) go to the classroom, now knowing which specific parts of the process you need to watch for, and what things you need to be unstuck on Mar 02 14:26:51 * sumanah likes that process Mar 02 14:27:01 you'd need mentors to guide people through those steps Mar 02 14:27:11 heffer: requires a lot more advance prep... we'd have to curate resources and pick out some simple packages the meego folks would be interested in looking at (i mean, bookmarks.html is nice but not... related to mobile in any way) Mar 02 14:27:17 and yeah, like sumanah said, mentors Mar 02 14:27:20 Stskeeps: seem a little less coordinated and play-like now? :) Mar 02 14:27:37 i do support what you're planning, :) Mar 02 14:28:56 mchua, right. so i think it would be okay to say we need at least that next week while im on holiday to prepare stuff Mar 02 14:29:36 is there already a meego wiki page or email list thread with at least some barebones "here are some resources for learning RPM" links? Mar 02 14:29:50 also i'm not really sure about the day to do such event. i'd assume the weekend is more suitable for most of the devs? Mar 02 14:31:43 heffer: actually it's unclear to me Mar 02 14:32:17 376 folks here -- you could do a doodle poll Mar 02 14:32:26 sounds like an idea Mar 02 14:32:29 http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-March/000634.html - you wanna join the packaging working group? Mar 02 14:33:05 but first we need to determine which week we want to do it Mar 02 14:33:21 but is it a "Debian Packaging Meego Working Group"? Mar 02 14:33:39 because that would exclude RPM :) i don't have much knowledge about dpkg Mar 02 14:35:53 if you have a couple good links on HOWTO learn RPM on your own, putting them on http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging could be a good first step so people aren't just hanging till the workshop/Q&A/classroom Mar 02 14:36:29 okay. i'll compile a little collection on howtos and stuff so people can get started Mar 02 14:36:32 right Mar 02 14:38:03 sumanah: we have a workgroup for repository which is less specific Mar 02 14:38:45 heffer: and for completeness's sake: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44597 is the Maemo.org community thread re the switch to RPMs Mar 02 14:41:05 hard to use built-in search to search the maemo.org site for "rpm" since it's too short & the search engine treats it as a stopword! Mar 02 14:41:15 but http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/dist/creating-rpms.html has some guidance Mar 02 14:45:06 heffer: and https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9067 shows that you might be able to grab Bartosz Taudul as one of those mentors :) Mar 02 14:45:08 Bug 9067: Consider using RPM Package Manager instead of dpkg Mar 02 14:46:22 interesting, I don't remember telling povbot to react to bug numbers on #meego Mar 02 14:57:09 mchua, heffer - I'm gonna pop out of this channel now but it sounds like you have a plan and are basically all set; happy to provide more advice if you want it :) Mar 02 14:57:24 sumanah, okay. thanks for your help so far Mar 02 14:57:40 * sumanah bows, exits Mar 02 15:09:02 mgedmin: povbot is self aware Mar 02 15:09:11 mgedmin: btw, easy to enable searching on #meego irc logs? Mar 02 15:11:32 let me see, I wasn't aware that it was broken Mar 02 15:11:40 oh, right, I need to fiddle with apache config a bit Mar 02 15:14:49 javispedro, fixed Mar 02 15:14:58 mgedmin: thanks. Mar 02 15:40:23 hello, Mar 02 16:38:07 hi Mar 02 16:54:16 * GeneralAntilles sees lots of energy being invested in Drupal and no discussion about the basic assumptions made about the CMS. . . . Mar 02 16:55:46 * CosmoHill could do with a lot of energy (in the form of motivation) Mar 02 17:02:35 * GeneralAntilles sent an email. Mar 02 17:03:08 * CosmoHill listens to Death In Vagas Mar 02 17:03:52 * slonopotamus reads gobject docs Mar 02 17:04:44 * nid0 is glad his screens work properly at long last Mar 02 17:05:18 * CosmoHill does his C++ tutorial Mar 02 17:07:02 CosmoHill > it appears that old nvidia drivers (pre 185.36.18) work with moblin Mar 02 17:07:16 interesting Mar 02 17:07:22 but i didnt manage to make them compiling, there is a bug with kernel headers Mar 02 17:07:33 ah Mar 02 17:07:39 compiling is overrated Mar 02 17:08:13 i hope meego image will be available soon Mar 02 17:08:17 VLJ: I had to reboot mine because yum updated my kernel Mar 02 17:08:20 or at least "moblin 2.2 preview" Mar 02 17:09:05 * CosmoHill hopes he understands what his lecturers want soon Mar 02 17:24:45 nooooooooooo Mar 02 17:24:49 bus error >.< Mar 02 21:35:32 mine if i ask a quick CPP question Mar 02 21:37:43 #ifdef reason Mar 02 21:40:37 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1COcy40b_c&feature=sub Demonstration of instant loading of games from SD card, abiword, pdf, filebrowser, battery life looking to be 10 hours plus (pandora) Mar 02 21:40:54 yes, but is it in the hands of those who preordered yet? Mar 02 21:40:54 :P Mar 02 21:41:04 suggest using .pnd for install-less applications on meego Mar 02 21:41:34 no that will take a while Mar 02 21:42:02 can i go "nodeClass myNode" and then define the "nodeClass" later on? Mar 02 21:42:09 as in 20 lines down the page Mar 02 21:42:34 install-less applications can only come when they have no dependencies. Mar 02 21:42:47 class nodeClass; beforehand and it might work :P Mar 02 21:43:36 thanks Mar 02 21:43:38 * CosmoHill sighs Mar 02 21:43:43 i need to repair my laptop Mar 02 21:43:57 screen casing is coming undone and the dent is getting worse Mar 02 21:44:54 arjan, will meego have nouveau enabled in the kernel? Mar 02 21:45:25 and will btrfs have compression on by default? Mar 02 21:48:13 Stskeeps: this is the problem when you expand a program each week Mar 02 21:49:51 CosmoHill, normally app expansion does not make the pysical screen dent or bulge! Mar 02 21:50:01 thats one hell of a patch if it does Mar 02 21:51:15 tripzero: unknown on nouveau yet... needs to work well enough Mar 02 21:51:33 btrfs compression on normal netbooks we'd likely not use, but I suspect it'll depend on the speed of storage (vs speed of cpu) Mar 02 21:51:46 we're working with the btrfs guys to have a per file compression flag Mar 02 21:51:50 so we can do it selective Mar 02 21:52:24 lol Mar 02 21:52:59 nouveau sucks on ubuntu 10.04 Mar 02 21:53:10 the dent is from when i feel off my bike Mar 02 21:53:19 at least on my ION board. but they are using 2.6.32 not 33 Mar 02 21:54:04 arjan, compression on by default on handsets? Mar 02 21:54:54 i want to run meego in my car Mar 02 21:55:16 I want to run meego in my citrus press Mar 02 21:55:46 i want to run meego on my joggler Mar 02 21:55:55 didn't e2compr had a perfile flag already? :) Mar 02 21:55:59 i want my wife to run meego Mar 02 21:56:12 you would, wouldn't you Mar 02 21:56:21 tripzero: default for compression.. undecided. again it depends on storage speed and cpu speed (and storage size) Mar 02 21:56:23 javispedro, e2compr? Mar 02 21:56:40 tripzero: the older ext2 transparent compression "hell-of-a-patch" Mar 02 21:56:49 lol, nice Mar 02 21:56:58 e2compr was scary. Mar 02 21:57:04 cute, but scary Mar 02 21:57:19 ext2 was *really* not designed to deal with compression Mar 02 21:57:22 (unlike btrfs) Mar 02 21:57:52 arjan: like the rabiits from monty python? Mar 02 22:04:16 drivespace :-) Mar 02 22:07:03 hi Mar 02 22:07:23 there is no more jhbuild Mar 02 22:07:33 for moblin Mar 02 22:07:33 :/ Mar 02 22:28:04 Hi Mar 02 22:28:21 hey Mar 02 22:28:41 Looking for a great vidéo of my feet ? Mar 02 22:29:26 136 views !! Mar 02 22:29:27 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycoK7zGjt7g Mar 02 22:29:43 arjan ! Mar 02 22:30:05 if I say no will you be offended? Mar 02 22:30:28 yes i will Mar 02 22:30:38 okay Mar 02 22:30:45 the answer still isn't yes Mar 02 22:31:29 well it wasn't a bot... Mar 03 00:08:03 Is there code yet Mar 03 00:08:03 ? Mar 03 00:08:04 :( Mar 03 00:11:25 nope Mar 03 00:11:32 probably not Mar 03 00:11:44 but it is expected in the first week or two (i think) Mar 03 00:15:09 so, why meego and not android? Mar 03 00:15:47 sorry if this is a dead argument. I'm debating with a guy that thinks that intel/nokia is burning money developing just-another-platform when android already exists to fill the same need Mar 03 00:15:56 ie, what need to meego fill that android does not Mar 03 00:18:38 I believe moblin and maemo existed first before android... Mar 03 00:18:53 so you should really ask.. why android? Mar 03 00:19:00 lpotter, +10 Mar 03 00:19:36 :) Mar 03 00:24:17 nigth night Mar 03 00:46:57 tripzero: Android's entire userspace is bespoke and does not use or contribute to the existing mountain of userspace effort. Its kernel modifications are also unsuitable to be contributed back to the community. Mar 03 00:48:15 It is unlikely to see much life outside of Google. Mar 03 00:52:05 Or, rather, its development effort is going to be consistently dwarfed by communities that are actually willing to cooperate with outside projects, such as almost every other distribution. Mar 03 00:53:08 Plus the fact that Android's purpose has nothing at all to do with freedom. Mar 03 00:56:27 I get the impression that the control exerted by Google and the walled garden environment is a side effect of market pressures rather than an anti-freedom sentiment. Mar 03 00:56:54 Which is to say Android is orthogonal to freedom, not necessarily anti. Mar 03 00:58:08 jrayhawk, they've caved to carrier demands. Mar 03 00:59:44 But that means, not only is contributing to Android essentially like contributing to a black hole as far as the rest of the Linux and open source sphere is concerned, it also means you're not exactly working to forward software freedom on mobile devices. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Mar 03 02:59:58 2010