**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 07 02:59:58 2010 Mar 07 07:49:28 heya Mar 07 08:02:19 +i+? Mar 07 10:27:30 does meego use the devtmpfs? or moblin? Mar 07 10:31:39 what would you prefer? Mar 07 11:14:00 is there a discussion of rpm vs deb anywhere? Mar 07 11:14:46 there were some here Mar 07 11:14:47 no Mar 07 11:14:48 On the community list, and it's been discussed to death a few times already :) Mar 07 11:14:50 the discussion is over Mar 07 11:15:07 So, as thiago_home said, you're too late if you have anything to add ;) Mar 07 11:15:39 did deb win? Mar 07 11:15:46 no Mar 07 11:15:53 no, I am interested in how hard Nokia and Intel listened Mar 07 11:16:00 sgbirch: not very hard Mar 07 11:16:04 but its over Mar 07 11:16:05 done Mar 07 11:16:15 there is a deb team however to make a debian compatable version of meego Mar 07 11:16:20 seperate project Mar 07 11:16:30 I am trying to decide about buying a Nexus Mar 07 11:16:42 the argument is not rpm vs deb. it's organisational. valhalla pretty much stated the reasons in blog comments Mar 07 11:17:08 and if you don't have tunnnel vision you would accept that argument as sane Mar 07 11:17:37 ok .. do you have a link to the argument pls? Mar 07 11:17:47 hag on Mar 07 11:17:51 thx Mar 07 11:18:13 id hate to go back to rpms Mar 07 11:18:38 puuh. i haven't read my lists for a week. there is some catching up to do :) Mar 07 11:18:42 i like debs but i understand the minusses with it. especially trying out image building and packaging in spec afterwards Mar 07 11:19:27 http://meego.com/community/blogs/valhalla/2010/towards-day-one Mar 07 11:19:42 trying out image bulding and packaging in spec? Mar 07 11:19:44 scroll down to 'the thinking process went between? Mar 07 11:19:49 ok Mar 07 11:19:58 brill thx ... brb Mar 07 11:20:32 i have to board a plane soon but i must say the tool and organsational arguments are sound Mar 07 11:20:43 another Q. is it now accepter that meego will run on n900? Mar 07 11:20:55 yes, it will be refference platform for arm Mar 07 11:21:29 ok ... but its never over in open source. If the majority want deb the deb fork will win Mar 07 11:21:43 minshare Mar 07 11:21:50 mindshare Mar 07 11:22:43 well, i'd say commercial investment tips the weight the other wy.. Mar 07 11:23:22 in the end, it is about how compelling a platform it is Mar 07 11:24:04 ok, boarding Mar 07 11:24:11 bbl Mar 07 11:26:30 is rpm supposed to be more user friendly or something? Mar 07 11:27:21 no Mar 07 11:27:27 it just is what it is Mar 07 11:29:14 have a great flight Mar 07 11:29:50 Stskeeps: right Mar 07 11:30:11 anyone using xchat? Mar 07 11:31:47 sgbirch, yep Mar 07 11:35:15 sgbirch: yea? Mar 07 11:36:39 how do you make xchat direct a message to a specific person? Mar 07 11:37:11 sgbirch: begin typing their name, press tab Mar 07 11:37:11 ? Mar 07 11:37:31 sgbirch, press shift+space to nick complete Mar 07 11:37:37 oh Mar 07 11:37:42 its different in xchat than it is in irssi? Mar 07 11:37:52 on n900 Mar 07 11:38:02 fnordian900, thanks. that was what I needed Mar 07 11:38:32 how about colors, I have to have brightess fullup to see some text Mar 07 11:38:56 Blice, I dont know irssi Mar 07 11:39:15 irssi is The irc client. Mar 07 11:39:15 sgbirch: settings->preferences->colours Mar 07 11:39:36 er, without the 'u' unfortunately. Mar 07 11:40:15 the language file needs to be fixed Mar 07 11:40:16 :) Mar 07 11:40:20 soembody ought to do a an English localisation of xchat that puts the 'u' in 'color' Mar 07 11:40:48 fnordian900, I spend half my life in the USA. I can speak American as well as English Mar 07 11:40:58 buddy Mar 07 11:41:59 i spent 6 hours on the phone dictating linux command lines to an american noob. what to call # took up a huge argument, and he kept thinking i'd said "z" when i said "c" Mar 07 11:42:21 fnordian900, cool, thats the one. thanks Mar 07 11:43:15 sgbirch: cool. xchat works really nicely on n900, with flashing lights,vibrations and stuff Mar 07 11:46:03 fnordian900, I dont understand the settings screen. how would I change the colow of my own text, for example Mar 07 11:47:42 by the words "Foreground" and "Background", there are two colour boxes. Touch one, and a colour chooser pops up. I use the dropper tool to choose a colour. Mar 07 11:49:14 i've just gone for white on black background to match my theme. all the nicks are in colour, as are highlights Mar 07 12:00:36 fnordian900, thx, chnaging now Mar 07 12:01:51 fnordian900, what are all the color boxes for? Mar 07 12:02:59 sgbirch, dunno, i invested minimal time setting it up :) Mar 07 12:05:05 fnordian900, it doesnt make sense to me. oh well Mar 07 12:05:07 cool. just ordered a bluetooth-rs232 adapter. should now be able to use my n900 with my ham radio gear, although i may need to build a custom kernel Mar 07 12:06:17 oops Mar 07 12:07:04 finger trouble on phone :) Mar 07 14:00:20 kernel recompilation: success. new boot time: 2.8 seconds. Mar 07 14:00:37 2099 miliseconds of that is towards the HDD spinning up, or at least thats what I assume takes hd_init so long. Mar 07 14:00:48 need ssd... 0.8second grub->X would be impressive Mar 07 14:02:01 I assume, no networking? =) Mar 07 14:02:48 (btw, can't say much about ssd, but when using sd cards, they require a few seconds to check for bad blocks on bootup) Mar 07 14:05:20 it brings up eth0 and wlan0 on boot, yeah Mar 07 14:05:27 doesn't try to connect to any profiles though, just brings them up Mar 07 14:05:42 but it does that after X has been started Mar 07 14:06:19 so, you think the 2second hd_init would stay the same with an SSD? :( Mar 07 14:06:54 No idea frankly, but it well may Mar 07 14:22:59 Blice: i once made a really slim system with custom init scripts, entierly in initrd Mar 07 14:23:47 Blice: it booted in about 5 seconds and a significant part of it was spent in reading and unpacking the initrd Mar 07 14:24:03 arachnist: yeah I never use initrds Mar 07 14:24:20 well, that was before i got a laptop with ssd Mar 07 14:24:25 ah Mar 07 14:24:37 and after? Mar 07 14:25:05 comparable Mar 07 14:25:25 ssd is slower than ram, but i cut the initrd reading time Mar 07 14:25:45 I don't worry about init. Mar 07 14:25:57 my init is as fast as it can be, so, really all I care about it kernel time Mar 07 14:27:10 you can do a nifty trick and bring up xdm/slim/kdm/whatever before just about everything else Mar 07 14:27:21 and start everything else in background Mar 07 14:28:02 most users won't notice Mar 07 14:28:13 and they'll say "wooow, graphics so early!" Mar 07 14:35:19 I've never used one of those login managers before, do they require X or no? Mar 07 14:36:38 oh they do Mar 07 14:36:39 hrm Mar 07 14:36:51 So they wouldn't be any faster to start up than just normally starting X then, neh? Mar 07 14:49:59 hi all Mar 07 14:50:10 hey Mar 07 14:50:21 anyone from iceland? Mar 07 14:50:41 i'm not Mar 07 14:50:51 :9 Mar 07 14:50:53 :) Mar 07 20:17:13 o hi Mar 07 20:17:32 hello Mar 07 20:17:59 is there a roadmap planned out for meego? Mar 07 20:18:13 think we'll get told more at day one Mar 07 20:18:23 hey Stskeeps Mar 07 20:18:29 good thing you know what you're talking about Mar 07 20:18:54 CosmoHill: i never claimed that Mar 07 20:18:54 :P Mar 07 20:19:18 at least you give that illusion Mar 07 20:19:25 yes, it's great isn't it? ;) Mar 07 20:19:34 most of the time Mar 07 20:19:36 * Stskeeps is wondering when it all collapses on him, etc ;) Mar 07 20:19:46 that is when it's not Mar 07 20:19:54 that said, this particular piece of info was put in various sources Mar 07 20:21:04 zchydem: +1 for your comment on valhalla's post Mar 07 20:22:37 wb Mar 07 20:25:15 * thiago_home wonders why valhalla is blogging Mar 07 20:25:22 he sent an email a week ago saying he was going on vacation Mar 07 20:25:24 :-P Mar 07 20:26:39 that means he only has access to one computer Mar 07 20:28:22 thiago_home: probably cos the whole project would melt down without some kind of hint of being alive :P Mar 07 20:28:36 and we all know a n900 is difficult to keep your hands off, even on vacation :) Mar 07 21:35:03 was the meego announcement on feb 17? Mar 07 21:47:18 dotblank: No, Monday 15th Feb. Mar 07 21:49:34 I've just purchased a netbook (dell mini 10) as I've been pretty interested in moblin for a while (and even more now it's merged with maemo) and will be installing meego as soon as it arrives, as for developing on meego I need to learn C++ and QT correct? Mar 07 21:50:25 yep Mar 07 21:50:43 and for packaging it will use RPM? Mar 07 21:50:44 * CosmoHill is learning C++ Mar 07 21:50:47 yes Mar 07 21:51:00 not sure if it's RPM or RPM5 Mar 07 21:51:27 brilliant, seems like fedora with KDE is the perfect platform to be running on the desktop then Mar 07 21:51:37 Will there be a repo of software? considering it is now RPM based Mar 07 21:51:48 * descendent87 has also just started learning C++ Mar 07 21:52:48 I would say going DEBs are the way to go but my n900 takes about 2 mins to load all the packages Mar 07 21:53:02 so it might be better to go rpm Mar 07 21:53:22 *That was a very end-user opinion Mar 07 21:54:16 dotblank: Why do you think the package format would make a difference? Mar 07 21:55:25 dotblank: It's not clear if there'll be any value in a "MeeGo" repository. Announcements from Nokia and Intel have focused on vendor-specific app stores, whereas the community is saying things like "but maemo.org Extras is better than Ovi, has more software, is easier to publish to and has higher quality s/w for end-users" Mar 07 21:57:29 I see a lot of value in a community maintained repo. Mar 07 21:57:48 I really enjoy maemo extras Mar 07 21:58:24 will meego run portal/alf life etc? Mar 07 21:58:26 half Mar 07 21:58:32 in wine? Mar 07 21:58:41 lcuk, um, not likely Mar 07 21:59:00 note, on windows i ran halflife at 640*480 on the poorest graphics card ever Mar 07 21:59:15 dotblank, what would be the blocker Mar 07 21:59:26 i have heard wine works for most things Mar 07 21:59:30 well for one Meego will run on arm Mar 07 21:59:34 or whatever the gaming version is Mar 07 21:59:44 dotblank, INTEL dont make arm Mar 07 21:59:51 meego is cross platform Mar 07 21:59:53 I don't think it is possible to run wine on arm Mar 07 21:59:56 some of the devices will be intel Mar 07 22:00:11 Right.. Maybe the intel side of things Mar 07 22:00:27 right Mar 07 22:00:42 so will the OS be compatible enough with mainstream linux to allow mainstream linux apps to run Mar 07 22:00:46 Is wine available on moblin? Mar 07 22:01:39 http://moblin.cnr.com/products/overview/wine Mar 07 22:02:34 cool Mar 07 22:03:14 Maemo seems compatible enough to run most mainstream linux software. There are a ton of ported apps Mar 07 22:03:56 yeah but the low resolution prevents the ui from working seemlessly usually and because those fat apps dont expect low cpu they run poorly Mar 07 22:04:10 or rather, not optimally Mar 07 22:04:29 and as you pointed out, wine wouldnt run on arm Mar 07 22:09:07 * CosmoHill needs to program a text based game Mar 07 22:10:44 CosmoHill, isnt irc a text based game? Mar 07 22:10:52 meego is just the next level we unlocked Mar 07 22:11:23 it needs an edit undo button Mar 07 22:11:29 (especially with some of the stuff I say) Mar 07 22:11:53 nahhh, but respawn points would be handy sometimes Mar 07 22:22:10 once i know how /where to start I'l be fine Mar 07 22:38:42 quick question, on a nokia how do i turn on predictive text? Mar 07 23:06:57 nokia's running meego will come with ovi maps right? Mar 07 23:09:00 so is this place a for random questions or is it somehow dev related? Mar 07 23:10:53 random i think Mar 07 23:11:11 i thought google maps for mobile was like ovi maps Mar 07 23:12:12 CosmoHill: yes, that's right Mar 07 23:12:18 Nokia devices will come with Ovi Maps Mar 07 23:12:38 i was thinking non-nokia meego devices could use google maps Mar 07 23:12:46 Whether MeeGo for N900 will be "productized" by Nokia or not, is another question :) Mar 07 23:13:34 does that matter? Mar 07 23:15:06 Only for people who want to run the proprietary nokia stuff. Offtopic for #meego, I know. Mar 07 23:15:59 well, graphics drivers and gps might be quite important for some people Mar 07 23:16:05 OT: looking for project ideas for summer of code '10, feel free to add some here: http://wiki.maemo.org/GSoC_2010/Project_ideas#Ideas_List ;) Mar 07 23:16:15 ah, what kind of stuff is that? the proprietary stuff Mar 07 23:16:17 we need mentors as well, Pm me for more info :) Mar 07 23:16:50 VDVsx: finally, a simple working media player for Maemo5 Mar 07 23:17:16 VDVsx: Barcode reader + google (froogle?) app that can be used by mere mortals Mar 07 23:17:24 RST38h, vlc port ? :D Mar 07 23:17:29 VDVsx: Any augmented reality shit Mar 07 23:17:35 QMplayer :D Mar 07 23:17:42 VDVsx: Well someone has to do it, properly, until then it is not Mar 07 23:18:11 * VDVsx doesn't know the state of VLC on maemo Mar 07 23:18:55 how does the GSoC work? Mar 07 23:18:55 VDVsx: A 3D game, possibly space simulator (candidates: Elite, Oolite, that gl-based game pupnik dug out, etc) Mar 07 23:19:24 VDVsx: Working version of Maemo Mapper (current one still sucks, alas) Mar 07 23:19:32 dalvik port to maemo? Mar 07 23:19:47 arachnist: who needs it? Mar 07 23:20:12 RST38h, write these in the wiki, you lazy :D Mar 07 23:20:20 VDVsx: I lazy Mar 07 23:20:43 dockside, http://code.google.com/soc/ Mar 07 23:21:15 RST38h, anyway, that helped, need to investigate a few things Mar 07 23:21:25 VDVsx: actually, yes, embedded Android inside Maemo5 (also usable by mere mortals, deb, desktop icon, and all) Mar 07 23:22:40 VDVsx: Working Google Widgets inside Maemo5 (project has been started but not finished) Mar 07 23:23:36 RST38h, humm, I think that would be too easy now :) Mar 07 23:34:21 ffs Mar 07 23:34:22 damn thing Mar 07 23:35:05 VDVsx: some nice ideas here :) Mar 07 23:35:14 GSoC seems way more nice than how i remember it from the first time i heard about it Mar 07 23:36:09 dockside, I participated as a Student and also as a mentor, both were great experiences Mar 07 23:36:10 :) Mar 07 23:36:56 i bet, going to register as a student this year Mar 07 23:43:11 me too Mar 08 02:31:48 night night **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 08 02:59:57 2010