**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 17 02:59:57 2010 Mar 17 03:27:52 * DocScrutinizer has a scary soccer/football/american football/rugby deja vu Mar 17 07:01:39 morning Mar 17 07:05:20 Robert Pattinson dies at the end of Remember Me? In the TWIN TOWERS? Mar 17 07:05:38 this isn't #litterature Mar 17 07:05:38 :P Mar 17 07:47:10 morning Mar 17 07:53:03 good morning Mar 17 10:22:03 * X-Fade is still annoyed that he can't mail to any meego list Mar 17 10:24:07 X-Fade: why can't you? Mar 17 10:24:48 burchr: Mailserver is blocking my mail because there is no reverse dns for my host or something like that. Mar 17 10:25:04 that's odd Mar 17 10:25:16 4.7.1 Client host rejected: cannot find your hostname Mar 17 10:25:52 So the server is a bit too strict. As it really is the only list server I have issues with. Mar 17 10:26:04 tried talking to .. is it mshaver? Mar 17 10:26:25 Yeah, reported it a month ago or so. Mar 17 10:26:55 Pretty funny as I manage all the maemo.org equivalents ;) Mar 17 10:27:10 my guess is it slipped someone's mind, waiting that long Mar 17 10:32:45 I keep hearing people use MeeGo's supposed "open source purity" as a reason not to use anything closed-source on the infra. Mar 17 10:33:00 I dunno what fantasy land they're living in, but MeeGo sure aint 100% open. Mar 17 10:33:18 and it's branding is already more confusing than Maemo/maemo.org's. Mar 17 10:33:29 Let's see if we can get the TSG meeting out in the open first. Mar 17 10:36:15 And I hope the them, they will get us soon(ish) :) Mar 17 10:36:36 s/get/change to/ Mar 17 10:36:36 X-Fade meant: And I hope the them, they will change to us soon(ish) :) Mar 17 10:37:10 i'll personally be a bit pissy if an mentioned meeting will be private Mar 17 10:37:49 Will hardly be surprising, though. ;) Mar 17 10:38:31 It'd've been nice to get some of the community folks involved in that little Intel/Nokia MeeGo powwow they had. Mar 17 10:39:07 well, it's a meritocracy and well, commuity doesn't always have merits in some areas :P Mar 17 10:40:10 Stskeeps, duh. Mar 17 10:40:29 (fwiw, it will be interesting to see how this works out) Mar 17 10:40:29 Stskeeps, however we do have at least have a paid staff that probably qualifies. Mar 17 10:40:58 yeah Mar 17 10:42:04 doesn't the TSG have just 2 people in it atm Mar 17 10:42:10 No other big projects have bootstrapped in public like this, so it will be interesting anyway :) Mar 17 10:42:23 A little abused cynical part of me says this is Nokia's grand opportunity to distance themselves that weird open source thing and those pesky communities that keep popping up around it. Mar 17 10:42:32 * lbt still thinks his idea of adding a certain someone to the TSG makes sense Mar 17 10:42:42 maemo.org does a decent job of straddling the two worlds Mar 17 10:42:44 X-Fade: you think? Mar 17 10:42:54 It'll be interesting to see whether vendor stuff actually ends up at meego.com Mar 17 10:43:34 regarding machinery for meego: is this viable to use as install for meego: http://liqbase.net/liq.concepting.cambridge.jlp.20091215_014.jpg Mar 17 10:43:50 and can i keep it with windows and just put qt ontop with meego apps? Mar 17 10:43:57 /or Mar 17 10:43:58 GeneralAntilles: you're being far too sensible, fyi Mar 17 10:44:32 * lcuk will purchase one at weekend if its a viable machine Mar 17 10:44:35 lcuk, surely you're not buying brick'n'mortar? Mar 17 10:44:42 of course Mar 17 10:44:50 i have no qualms with that Mar 17 10:44:56 w00t, fyog? :P Mar 17 10:45:04 hehe Mar 17 10:45:20 lcuk, sounds expensive Mar 17 10:45:43 In the US you're talking at least a 10% price difference for most things. Mar 17 10:45:55 More, depending on your state and its sales tax laws. Mar 17 10:46:56 GeneralAntilles, theres something about buying something and having great service when you do :) Mar 17 10:47:03 * lcuk likes shopping in john lewis Mar 17 10:47:14 lcuk, yeah, which is why I buy online. :P Mar 17 10:47:37 thats cos you are a basement dweller :p Mar 17 10:48:31 What's a "basement"? Mar 17 10:48:55 s/basement/dungeon/ ;D Mar 17 10:49:20 (There are no basements in Florida) Mar 17 10:49:29 Unless you're talking about a below-ground indoor swimming pool. Mar 17 10:49:36 heh Mar 17 11:01:52 :D Mar 17 11:49:50 * GeneralAntilles wonders why qgil is the one announcing the TSG meeting. Mar 17 11:52:45 i am wondering that is meego going to be the new symbian Mar 17 11:53:59 Anssi__, no, afaik, Symbian is a completely different thing, and has future plans (at least atm) Mar 17 11:56:50 GeneralAntilles, probably he will become part of the TSG, the other guys are too busy, ... :D Mar 17 11:57:37 * timeless_mbp wonders what tsg Mar 17 11:57:44 ... is Mar 17 11:59:03 technical steering group Mar 17 12:00:49 hopefully meego is going to be open enough to be extended. Mar 17 12:02:10 Anssi__: anything can be extended Mar 17 12:02:13 I heard that meego will be 100% OS (the problem is that there are a not of definitions for meego) Mar 17 12:02:37 so the name confusion Mar 17 12:03:10 timeless_mbp, sure it is possible, but is it allowed. Mar 17 12:03:30 i would consider these two things as different cases. Mar 17 12:03:32 Anssi__: by end users on their own devices? Mar 17 12:03:42 typically yes, unless there's a local law that contravenes :) Mar 17 12:04:02 (you're asking the wrong question) Mar 17 12:04:22 meego + Nokia UI = meego Mar 17 12:04:23 would stg allow apple specific extensions or amd specific super optimizations Mar 17 12:04:23 meego + xpto UI = meego Mar 17 12:04:32 thats diff from the user POV Mar 17 12:08:08 what's stg? Mar 17 12:08:26 tsg i meant. Mar 17 12:09:17 or some other authoritative organ :) Mar 17 12:10:24 timeless_mbp, basically TSG is a guy from Nokia and one from Intel Mar 17 12:10:47 it's a good thing we aren't driving very fast :) Mar 17 12:11:25 lol Mar 17 12:14:36 timeless_mbp, you are driving? :) Mar 17 12:14:50 i don't have a license ;) Mar 17 12:15:10 * timeless_mbp sticks to back seat driving Mar 17 12:15:15 it's much more fun this way Mar 17 12:15:57 sure, i just don't have capital for hired driver ^o^ Mar 17 12:16:52 timeless_mbp, you need a license plus the extra skills to drive in the frozen streets of HEL :D :D Mar 17 12:17:10 VDVsx: i have enough trouble just *walking* them Mar 17 12:17:16 * timeless_mbp points to bruises Mar 17 12:17:20 hehe Mar 17 12:17:21 Lol, me too ;) Mar 17 12:17:29 Wiped out quite badly.. Mar 17 12:17:43 i lost 1 / 6 of my bottles walking ~5 blocks Mar 17 12:17:52 eheh Mar 17 12:17:59 lol Mar 17 12:18:00 Ice Mar 17 12:18:03 Stskeeps saw me fly. Mar 17 12:18:06 * GeneralAntilles would fall and crack his skull open. Mar 17 12:18:22 the ice was purple after i fell... Mar 17 12:18:43 * GeneralAntilles has only seen snow twice Mar 17 12:18:54 and, really, only 1 of those actually counts. Mar 17 12:19:33 Well, plenty of snow in HEL this year. Mar 17 12:20:28 * VDVsx survived without falling back in Feb :) Mar 17 12:21:33 I almost slipped once this winter Mar 17 12:22:19 inz: Almost doesn't count :) Mar 17 12:23:09 X-Fade, it does for a Finn. Mar 17 12:23:17 lol Mar 17 12:23:34 hehe Mar 17 12:25:29 when walking on ice you must be able to stop your walking in any phase of the step, that way you aren't counting on your inertia and the friction between shoe and surface for maintaining balance Mar 17 12:25:46 * ShadowJK makes walking sound like science Mar 17 12:25:49 + good shoes Mar 17 12:26:02 good shoes++ Mar 17 12:26:10 That was where I messed up ;) Mar 17 12:26:33 ShadowJK, no, when walkin on ice, you need to slide! Mar 17 12:28:02 it was -20C this morning when I went to work, the risk of shoes getting stuck to ice was greater than slipping ;D Mar 17 12:28:28 Why were your shoes wet? Mar 17 12:29:08 inz: huge pressure melts ice ;) Mar 17 12:29:18 because the snow from the dayefor had melted so they stood in a puddle of water :p Mar 17 12:29:44 and im too lazy to put them somewhere sensible when I get in.. Mar 17 12:47:28 yeps, but gladly spring is not faraway. Mar 17 12:47:45 i get my motorcycle on the road :P Mar 17 12:49:04 Reached above 15C today for us. Getting there ;) Mar 17 12:49:42 :( Mar 17 12:49:57 Spring is dangerous. Felipe Massa got hit by a spring and nearly died. Mar 17 12:50:41 heh Mar 17 12:51:32 i remember that, it was nasty accident. Mar 17 12:51:41 hrm, i was wondering what a water well could do to nearly kill someone Mar 17 12:51:55 i mean, sure water can come out @high pressure, but... Mar 17 12:52:15 you can drown in it Mar 17 12:52:15 :P Mar 17 12:52:15 Saw a nice fountain in the streets of HEL btw ;) Mar 17 12:52:41 where? do you mean the one by the inner harbor? Mar 17 12:53:28 The one at a corner of Hietalahdenkatu, last week. Mar 17 12:53:53 Took pictures with my N900 of course. Mar 17 12:53:57 ofc Mar 17 12:54:07 i dont' have one. :( Mar 17 12:54:19 * timeless_mbp ponders Mar 17 12:55:57 I hope u geeks all use a green wallpaper today! Mar 17 12:56:40 no, i use recycled newspaper ;) Mar 17 12:56:51 it is more like gray Mar 17 12:56:53 then u better paint it green :P Mar 17 13:00:56 Fountain: http://share.ovi.com/media/xfade.Random/xfade.10006 Mar 17 13:01:43 X-Fade, so weren't kidding. Mar 17 13:01:59 hopefully underground train still works. Mar 17 13:02:08 No, that was quite a lot of water ;) Mar 17 13:04:06 X-Fade: oh Mar 17 13:04:18 i was going to say, there isn't supposed to be a fountain there Mar 17 13:05:19 Talk about ice btw ;) Mar 17 13:05:52 It was below 0 degrees C already. Mar 17 13:16:11 hi, a short question: Mar 17 13:16:14 #: ../src/mnp-alarm-dialog.c:175 Mar 17 13:16:16 msgid "Alarm settings" Mar 17 13:16:18 msgstr "Paramètres d'alarme Mar 17 13:17:14 or #: ../src/mnp-alarm-dialog.c:175 Mar 17 13:17:16 msgid "Alarm settings" Mar 17 13:17:18 msgstr "Param\303\250tres d'alarme Mar 17 13:17:22 * timeless_mbp ponders Mar 17 13:17:28 koupsa: whose repository is that? Mar 17 13:17:57 it's neither moblin2.1, nor the git repo i have, nor fremantle sdk Mar 17 13:18:15 offhand, it looks like moblin style, because it isn't maemo style Mar 17 13:18:58 moblin 2.x i suppose i will be the next meego ? Mar 17 13:19:24 why? Mar 17 13:19:55 koupsa: Bit of this, bit of that. Stir for a while.. Mar 17 13:20:36 but the first meego doesnt exist officially Mar 17 13:21:03 so it could be maemo 6 or moblin 2 or a combination Mar 17 13:22:06 anyone heard anything specific? Mar 17 13:22:16 is this channel dead now? Mar 17 13:22:25 WeAllAre: Wait for day 1. Mar 17 13:22:48 Basically 14 days away. Mar 17 13:23:01 not much opinion here. We dont ave knowledge anyhow Mar 17 13:23:17 Day 14 beofre Meepoch Mar 17 13:23:35 X-Fade: you have a link? Mar 17 13:23:54 in channel title Mar 17 13:24:16 the meego site? Mar 17 13:24:38 http://meego.com/community/blogs/valhalla/2010/towards-day-one Mar 17 13:24:47 Not really hard to find :) Mar 17 13:25:02 so meego will use rpm, any idea which version of rpm i am assuming it is 4.8.0 Mar 17 13:26:45 * timeless_mbp sighs Mar 17 13:26:47 blogs are stupid Mar 17 13:27:00 i doubt the rpm version is very critical. no advanced featurees will prob be supported in the beginning Mar 17 13:27:06 why is there a russian complaining that someone in russia is ripping him off wrt the price of an n900? Mar 17 13:27:24 we used to have specs no there are only blogs and scrumms Mar 17 13:27:26 ripping people off is part of what russia does... Mar 17 13:27:29 *now Mar 17 13:27:32 what is the price of an N900 where you are? Mar 17 13:29:06 how is that specific to Russia? :S Mar 17 13:29:28 549.90 € Mar 17 13:29:36 iss: charging 1000$ for an n900 is specific to russia Mar 17 13:29:42 midori gets 100% on http://acid3.acidtests.org/ firefox 3 doesn't Mar 17 13:29:45 most other places don't commit armed robbery while ripping you off Mar 17 13:30:33 I can think of a few places Mar 17 13:30:39 seems to be 533 € here at its cheapest Mar 17 13:30:40 WeAllAre: so a browser released in of 2008 (Based on code finalized much earlier) gets a low score on a test Mar 17 13:30:42 so what? Mar 17 13:31:07 midori os much older isnt it? Mar 17 13:31:11 the test was released in march of 2008 Mar 17 13:31:13 midori is... Mar 17 13:31:46 what is that test worth is my question Mar 17 13:32:49 if you don't know you're wasting my time Mar 17 13:33:01 the test is designed to test interesting edge cases Mar 17 13:33:11 it only seems to test animation Mar 17 13:33:22 and classically it was written in such a way to test edge cases known to fail in major browsers Mar 17 13:33:26 why is asking a question wasting your time ???? Mar 17 13:33:30 to point out areas that browsers needed to fix Mar 17 13:33:46 because you're obviously expecting an answer from someone who knows Mar 17 13:33:50 and sadly, at this time, that's me Mar 17 13:49:27 hi Mar 17 13:49:56 hi VorTechS Mar 17 13:49:58 lo Mar 17 13:51:24 amjad, cycle please Mar 17 13:51:32 and tell us if you get a pm from info Mar 17 13:51:47 its sending me a message on join to join a random irc network Mar 17 13:52:49 Stskeeps, and ? Mar 17 13:52:55 VorTechS, can kill it Mar 17 13:53:38 I guess thats a confirmation Mar 17 13:53:43 okay, can you guys PM me the spam pease? Mar 17 13:53:45 er please Mar 17 13:54:03 sure do it now Mar 17 13:54:38 okay thanks Mar 17 13:54:41 np Mar 17 13:54:44 thanks mate Mar 17 13:55:09 * satmd waves at Stskeeps :) Mar 17 13:55:28 * satmd is stalking you, hehe Mar 17 13:55:40 satmd: well, not a giant leap from #maemo. Mar 17 13:55:40 :P Mar 17 13:56:21 ;) Mar 17 13:56:54 lo, satmd Mar 17 13:57:08 ;) Mar 17 13:57:19 'lo ;) Mar 17 14:01:03 hello, one question Mar 17 14:01:10 shoot Mar 17 14:01:41 duck and cover Mar 17 14:01:48 are we gonna be able to load all meego images in netbooks or do we need specific ATOM kit? Mar 17 14:02:24 not sure but atom i suppose Mar 17 14:02:40 atom and arm Mar 17 14:02:50 ok Mar 17 14:03:02 probably first ARM will be beagleboard Mar 17 14:03:20 but not sure, just trying to have the correct hardware Mar 17 14:03:32 reference implementation is the n900 Mar 17 14:03:32 thanks Mar 17 14:03:52 and n900 has a OMAP3 uC Mar 17 14:03:54 maemo 6 is probably going to be first meego instance, what that ever means according jaaksi's blog. Mar 17 14:04:01 i doubt there's going to be much hassle putting it on other arm devices though Mar 17 14:04:17 yeah... Mar 17 14:04:33 GLES is always going to be interesting Mar 17 14:04:34 :P Mar 17 14:04:48 Stskeeps, so there is a chance we could run meego on N900s ? Mar 17 14:05:18 uhm.. Mar 17 14:05:18 :P Mar 17 14:05:23 lol Mar 17 14:05:26 http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/ Mar 17 14:05:28 n900 is going to be reference device for meego arm Mar 17 14:05:31 how can it not Mar 17 14:05:31 ? Mar 17 14:05:32 :P Mar 17 14:05:34 k Mar 17 14:05:39 just double checking Mar 17 14:07:55 blog quote "We will absolutely not forget N900 users and developers. If you are a developer, develop on N900 with Qt and your apps will run on MeeGo devices." Mar 17 14:08:08 awesome Mar 17 14:08:11 @Stskeeps, any MeeGo group you aware of that needs some people for its activities? Mar 17 14:08:31 thats not awesome? Mar 17 14:09:03 actually, no Mar 17 14:09:27 abraham: wiki.meego.com has some bootstrap things, but after friday things should be clearer Mar 17 14:10:00 ok, thanks Mar 17 14:10:35 Anssi__: the above quote is nothing beyond a "if you're msdos devel, be assured your apps will run under XP" Mar 17 14:10:53 means nothing Mar 17 14:10:57 for the user Mar 17 14:13:10 maybe it is just matter of hardware capability then, not an api issue. Mar 17 14:13:47 DocScrutinizer: where do you get off with this negativity? Mar 17 14:13:55 do you work for apple? Mar 17 14:14:18 lbt: that's not negativity, that objectivity Mar 17 14:14:41 and given the code's not out I'd call it pure speculation Mar 17 14:14:53 I'm just not reading things into statements that aren't really there Mar 17 14:15:28 you are making negative statements as facts with no justification Mar 17 14:15:36 it's just not helpful Mar 17 14:15:37 [2010-03-17 15:05:29] n900 is going to be reference device for meego arm Mar 17 14:15:46 THAT'S a statement Mar 17 14:16:00 and? Mar 17 14:16:55 DocScrutinizer: Not something that is new? Mar 17 14:17:18 come on - I know it's frustrating but give everything some breathing room Mar 17 14:17:19 gah, phone... l8r Mar 17 14:17:28 lbt: you're blaming me for paraphrasing a statement just to make clear the meaning to an enthusiastic Anssi__ - why? Mar 17 14:17:29 that's NOT a negative statement Mar 17 14:23:07 juergbi, o/ Mar 17 14:27:34 X-Fade: I never claimed my contribution contained any new bits. Just trying to make clear to Anssi__ that the quote he posted isn't so exciting as it may sound on first read Mar 17 14:28:32 of course it's nice, but honestly to N900 owners it means little, compared to Stskeeps statement Mar 17 14:28:39 mmm? Mar 17 14:29:03 DocScrutinizer: Reference platform means hacking place for developers. Not end-user product. Mar 17 14:29:15 DocScrutinizer, yep, it did not promise actually nothing else than if application developer uses qt, it _should_work in meego device. Mar 17 14:29:17 sure Mar 17 14:29:45 N900 has enough memory etc.. Mar 17 14:29:49 ;/ Mar 17 14:30:03 Hi, just want to ask a question regarding moblin and maemo. Does maemo crash a lot, or is it much more stable than moblin (I can only speak for moblin, although it has a good interface, it kinda randomly crashes apps on me)? Just asking because from what I understand, the best of both worlds from maemo and moblin will form meego. Mar 17 14:30:19 Maemo is stable for me. Mar 17 14:30:21 clintcan: well, maemo5 is pretty solid on the n900 :P Mar 17 14:30:27 +1 Mar 17 14:30:34 yep Mar 17 14:30:37 even on the N810 its stable Mar 17 14:30:47 so there is a track record there Mar 17 14:31:09 though my N810 itelf starts to act unstable :P Mar 17 14:31:19 i have use n900 only for few times but there seems to be lot of bug like feature still left. :) Mar 17 14:31:26 DocScrutinizer: ah, didn't know you had a n810 Mar 17 14:31:31 * Stskeeps will keep that in mind Mar 17 14:31:34 two Mar 17 14:31:48 There are quite a few features that I miss, BUT... Maemo 5 is new so I can live with it. Mar 17 14:32:07 ctrl+shift+x <3 Mar 17 14:32:13 yep Mar 17 14:32:51 [14:31] though my N810 itelf starts to act unstable :P Mar 17 14:32:53 fine here mate Mar 17 14:33:01 Thanks. I think that going with Qt then would be good for the moblin codebase. Mar 17 14:33:59 WOW Mar 17 14:34:25 LinuxCode: I managed to bork my charger receptacle Mar 17 14:34:48 maybe that causes the random reboots Mar 17 14:35:05 could be mate Mar 17 14:37:58 Anssi__: s/what that ever means/whatever that means/ Mar 17 14:38:48 timeless_mbp, that i don't know what it means. Mar 17 14:38:55 Any news on the N900 to be possibly being flashed with meego firmware when it arrives? I just can't keep up with the mailing list at all; simply overwhelming. Mar 17 14:39:16 clintcan: it's supposed to be the reference device for meego, don't worr Mar 17 14:39:16 y Mar 17 14:39:21 if it means corporate support is another thing Mar 17 14:39:37 Anssi__: s/replace bad text/correction to bad text/ Mar 17 14:40:23 timeless_mbp, thanks for your comment Mar 17 14:40:27 :) Mar 17 14:43:14 Stskeeps, thanks. :) Mar 17 14:44:29 Stskeeps: one of both 810 actully originally packaged and untouched Mar 17 14:46:08 got it a year ago for a spare, if ever my favourite (back when) device might brake :-) Mar 17 14:52:40 hey, did anyone tried to install meego on N900? Mar 17 14:53:52 Ddorda: there is no meego yet Mar 17 14:54:55 janneg: I mean, I heard it will be possible to install it, but I wanna make sure it will be possible without sending the device to nokia or something Mar 17 14:55:17 janneg: good to know, I was sure there is at least an alpha or something... Mar 17 14:55:41 source repositories open at the end of the month by all accounts Mar 17 14:56:12 once it's out, I desire something that will tar up my maemo rootfs and switch in a meego one Mar 17 14:57:22 lupine_85: do you think meego is going to be as good as maemo? Mar 17 14:57:41 TBH, it can't be that hard Mar 17 14:57:46 lupine_85: :D Mar 17 14:57:56 maemo is great because it's linux, not because it's particularly exceptional linux Mar 17 14:58:15 IMO, anyway Mar 17 14:59:06 * lupine_85 is hard to please ;) Mar 17 15:03:34 QUESTION: Testing custom highlighting Mar 17 15:03:41 Anyone else care to try help me test? Mar 17 15:04:05 Sorry - let me try that again Mar 17 15:04:15 QUESTION: Anyone else care to try help me test? Mar 17 15:04:25 Hmmm Mar 17 15:07:17 test what? Mar 17 15:09:05 Stskeeps: problems might be related to this action :-P http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/N810-disassembly/ Mar 17 15:26:12 thiago, X-Chat highlighting phrases that start with QUESRION: Mar 17 15:28:02 oh Mar 17 15:28:06 because nothing happened for me here Mar 17 15:28:09 (irssi) Mar 17 15:42:09 dneary: you won't get a hilight off your own messages fyi Mar 17 15:42:46 yup Mar 17 15:43:03 It was QUESTION: not QUESRION: Mar 17 15:43:12 thiago, It's a personal preference you set Mar 17 15:43:50 QUESTION: does dave notice my question? Mar 17 15:48:36 ~say QUESTION: Mar 17 15:48:37 QUESTION: Mar 17 15:48:52 ~say ~say ~say Mar 17 15:48:53 ~say ~say Mar 17 15:48:59 :( Mar 17 15:49:11 lol, infobot not that stupid Mar 17 15:49:34 you need a second bot to play that game ;-P Mar 17 15:50:39 ~say !say ~say !say bullshit Mar 17 15:50:40 !say ~say !say bullshit Mar 17 15:52:54 this one works to some extent though: Mar 17 15:52:57 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Mar 17 15:53:17 s/x/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=0=/g Mar 17 15:53:17 DocScrutinizer meant: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=0=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=0=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=0=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=0=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=0=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=0=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=0=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=0=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=0=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=0=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=0=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=0=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=0=xxxxxxxx... Mar 17 16:00:54 Ive seen many n900's in ebay for $150, is it possible? sounds kinda odd =\ Mar 17 16:04:01 Ddorda: uhh... you must be seeing fake ones Mar 17 16:04:22 Ddorda: ive seen chinese knockoffs that arent even phones - they just look like n900's Mar 17 16:05:15 lirakis: I see.. sounds sense to me Mar 17 16:07:04 lol ... for instance this one .. currently at $1.25 Mar 17 16:07:07 http://cgi.ebay.com/N900-PDA-Side-Slip-Map-Touch-Querty-GSM-Quad-Band_W0QQitemZ220572848622QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCell_Phones?hash=item335b2a91ee Mar 17 16:07:40 lirakis: This phone is made in China, not original. It is high copy, good quality! Mar 17 16:07:51 nice right?! Mar 17 16:08:14 heck .. for $1.25 Mar 17 16:08:25 who cares what it is ha ha Mar 17 16:08:54 lirakis: most of the time, the manufactures shred the original rom to pieces Mar 17 16:09:21 http://www.diytrade.com/china/4/products/6359337/NOKIA_N900_1_1_Copy_phone_with_QWERTY_sliding_keyboard.html lirakis although that looks interesting indeed Mar 17 16:09:22 Check the specs, it may look like it but nothing else matches. Mar 17 16:09:42 So for all we know this runs windows mobile. Mar 17 16:09:51 Yeah. Mar 17 16:10:11 And the image in the picture is of a Nokia marketing sheet. Mar 17 16:10:16 even comes with a knock off luois vitton phone case Mar 17 16:10:19 http://www.diytrade.com/china/4/products/6343742/NOKIA_N900_1_1_Copy_phone_with_QWERTY_sliding_keyboard.html this one's only got a 1.3mp camera btw Mar 17 16:10:21 So that is dubious anyway, Mar 17 16:10:35 nice! now i dont have to go down to bowling green and hustle the guys with giant bindles of knock off bags Mar 17 16:10:56 i'm wondering about the os on that one tho... any idea? Mar 17 16:11:13 At least it has MMS :) Mar 17 16:11:28 Will it run Meego? =) Mar 17 16:11:32 * RST38h hides Mar 17 16:11:37 http://www.diytrade.com/china/4/products/6359337/NOKIA_N900_1_1_Copy_phone_with_QWERTY_sliding_keyboard.html or java 2.0 ;) Mar 17 16:11:39 RST38h: lol Mar 17 16:11:51 OMG IT HAS GOT JAVA Mar 17 16:12:00 i also don't want to know how much of the data you store on it ends up in china Mar 17 16:12:24 Probably none, but not excatly because China did not want it Mar 17 16:12:38 but i just don't understand why they don't copy the exact device... it should cost the same Mar 17 16:12:41 anyway I wish to buy an nokia n900 soon Mar 17 16:13:43 th0br0: This one has a 320x240 screen etc. All very low cost parts. Mar 17 16:13:46 yep Mar 17 16:14:03 Making a plastic mold is not the problem for them. Mar 17 16:14:08 and specs like * STANDBY TIME : About 240-360Hours Mar 17 16:14:08 * TALKING TIME : About 3-5Hours Mar 17 16:14:15 They do not copy the exact device because they cannot Mar 17 16:14:30 It is done differently than what you imagine Mar 17 16:15:01 There is a cellphone-on-a-chip chipset from MTK, I think Mar 17 16:15:13 mh Mar 17 16:15:15 It is cheap and will drive a standard 320x240 screen and run Java Mar 17 16:15:46 These shed-based companies buy chips from MTK and make the outer casing look more or less like a brandname phone Mar 17 16:16:08 They put the MTK chip inside, sometimes even do localization (Chinese Russian localization is especially funny BTW) Mar 17 16:16:38 http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/730289/11862010/0/1264828280/Nokia_N900_Rover_Quad_Band_Dual_SIM_Card_Dual_Camera_GSM_Mobile_Phone.jpg now that is a funny thing though Mar 17 16:16:44 So, in effect, all these pseudo-nokias and pseudo-sonys run the same firmware provided by the chip manufacturer Mar 17 16:17:04 Copying N900 would be way more expensive and require expertise these Chinese guys lack Mar 17 16:17:19 Same goes for copying N95, N97, E71, etc etc Mar 17 16:17:28 true Mar 17 16:19:25 does mtk have any homepage? Mar 17 16:22:51 ah it's mediatek Mar 17 16:38:18 Silly forum software thread. Mar 17 16:40:31 isn't that a catch 22? Mar 17 17:06:14 * zhuyanming1 slaps zhuyanming1 around a bit with a large trout Mar 17 17:06:26 hehe Mar 17 19:15:43 anaZ: ping Mar 17 19:16:55 bong Mar 17 19:56:16 hi Mar 17 19:58:48 I'm a member of the Canola project and atm almost the only person working on Canola.. I need more people here at #canola to improve the code.. the player is great and many plugins are available.. please help. the developters that where working on it in the past were paied to work on it - now they have other priorities so - we need you! Mar 17 20:01:21 does it run under meego yet? Mar 17 20:01:22 :P Mar 17 20:01:47 Stskeeps: hint you can also use "Imagine a cluster of meegos!" =) Mar 17 20:02:46 thopiekar: aren't the profusion guys working on it ? have you sent any e-mail to the canola development mailing list ? Mar 17 20:05:38 not atm Mar 17 20:06:04 but you can help us get it work Mar 17 20:07:39 wb jebba Mar 17 20:12:42 * thopiekar is now going to send that message in other channels , too Mar 17 20:12:51 spamming? Mar 17 20:12:51 :P Mar 17 20:13:28 :o Mar 17 20:14:21 meh Mar 17 20:14:51 thopiekar: you just lost your brownie points Mar 17 20:15:07 and brownies Mar 17 20:15:20 Myrtti: Will you REALLY take his brownie? Mar 17 20:15:32 Cruel! Mar 17 20:15:58 Maybe thopiekar manages to make Canola start faster than 40sec Mar 17 20:23:10 hhartz: morgen Mar 17 20:23:28 thiago_home: mornmorn :) Mar 17 20:43:46 thopiekar: are you stupid or just stubborn? Mar 17 20:48:07 What do you want from me?, Myrtti Mar 17 20:48:25 to stop spamming. You're being reported to the Freenode staff by now. Mar 17 20:48:44 not by me, mind you Mar 17 20:49:23 o.O' ouch Mar 17 20:56:56 hi jebba Mar 17 20:57:01 hows things? Mar 17 20:57:24 hey lbt Mar 17 20:57:30 hi CosmoHill Mar 17 20:58:18 i have no idea what has happened to the mail server i use Mar 17 20:58:32 but apparently i need a bigger penis -.- Mar 17 20:58:41 who doesn't Mar 17 20:58:50 * CosmoHill looks down, looks up Mar 17 20:58:51 :) Mar 17 21:07:45 heya lbt Stskeeps :) Mar 17 21:09:38 best way to confuse someone, run php from the command line Mar 17 21:10:59 http://forums.kustompcs.co.uk/showpost.php?p=469761&postcount=5 Mar 17 21:12:11 so jebba, hows things? been playing with OBS anymore? Mar 17 21:30:11 * CosmoHill growls at adobe cos firefox crashes Mar 17 21:57:55 lbt: no, i havent. Im not very anxious to do anything for meego, honestyl. Mar 17 22:01:13 oh, fair enough. Any special reason? Mar 17 22:01:46 meewhat? Mar 17 22:02:41 jebba: ^ Mar 17 22:02:57 so many people in here Mar 17 22:03:05 steady around 350 Mar 17 22:03:08 seems like nothing but PR yet Mar 17 22:03:14 we passed the 300 mark on the first day Mar 17 22:03:16 because nobody is talking business :) Mar 17 22:03:24 I saw two jokes about Sparta that day Mar 17 22:03:30 dcordes: what's your interest? Mar 17 22:03:58 lbt, that sparta thing seems quite interesting Mar 17 22:04:09 about the only thing the project has done so far publicly is to decide to use non-free software, yay! Mar 17 22:04:19 I would like to discuss synergies between sparta and the meego technical steering manager Mar 17 22:04:35 jebba: yeah - but that's a decision I support :) Mar 17 22:05:01 frankly I don't care *that* much about OSS forum software Mar 17 22:05:02 jebba, where does it say that it decided that? Mar 17 22:05:11 well, i dont. I'm not going to through my energy and some lame project that acts like a free software project, but isnt Mar 17 22:05:18 dcordes: on meego-community ml Mar 17 22:05:28 any link to archives? Mar 17 22:05:33 jebba: OTOH the focus is on making the device SW as free as possible Mar 17 22:05:41 Dawn Foster, Quim Gil, Mike Shaver and Tero Kojo made finaly decision. Mar 17 22:06:06 jebba: I'd rather we spent the OSS forum credits on opening device HW modules Mar 17 22:06:08 lbt: bullshit. If they wont even put up a free *forum*.... It's certain they aren't going to have a free device. Mar 17 22:06:11 wouldn't you? Mar 17 22:06:33 nope - economics Mar 17 22:06:44 which is indeed bullshit if you have limited cash :) Mar 17 22:06:46 no, the whole stack should be free. anyway. taht's why i dont want any part of it, because shit like this is going to come up all the time. The non-free forums is going to be a thorn in the project for the entire time they are up. Mar 17 22:06:58 yes it is going to come up the whole time Mar 17 22:07:16 and there are people out there who won't do shit to help until it's all free and handed to them on a plate Mar 17 22:07:24 and its an indicator that the project leaders are perfectly fine with it, since they decided. Mar 17 22:07:33 by the people who work like stink to make sure it is free :) Mar 17 22:07:50 and we have to deal with the crap and it sucks Mar 17 22:07:52 I have no problem with an "unfree" forum Mar 17 22:07:54 they are working like stink to make it not free. They just added a big non-free chunk today. Mar 17 22:08:00 most websites you use are not OSS anyway Mar 17 22:08:12 yes, most websites arent FLOSS projects either. Mar 17 22:08:32 nope, they took a realistic assesment and said they'd rather focus effort on free device SW than spend community resource on free forum S Mar 17 22:08:33 SWE Mar 17 22:08:55 BTW - I'm only arguing with you 'cos I want you to stick around :D Mar 17 22:10:05 however, the meego area is sure as hell going to be a pit of compromises... Mar 17 22:10:18 who wants to bow down to some technical steering manager? Mar 17 22:10:40 but if you don't work with it and within it then you can't influence it Mar 17 22:10:57 and *I* believe the people involved do want it to be free Mar 17 22:11:18 dcordes: if it's my project then you bow down to me. Mar 17 22:11:32 until you earn the right to hold your head up... Mar 17 22:11:48 i understand the rpm/deb type compromises. It just has to be done either/or. But FLOSS projects should be using FLOSS, and this shows that they are more than happy to compromise there too. Mar 17 22:11:55 feel free to pop onto lkml and give them your opinion from cold Mar 17 22:12:05 jebba: I am not happy about it Mar 17 22:12:09 but I understand it Mar 17 22:12:45 and honestly I'd rather they kept the squealing masses on the forum happy Mar 17 22:12:53 i mean, WTF was the big rush to get the forums up anyway? There's already places on talk.maemo.org for meego. We dont even have code yet. They certainly could have put a week into tracking down some phpBB admins (e.g. asking on their MLs) instead of rushing off to some non-free shit. Mar 17 22:13:07 what's LKML have to do with it? Mar 17 22:13:17 talking to dcordes, sorry Mar 17 22:13:49 they could have tracked down some php dude Mar 17 22:14:05 but Reggie has sweated blood for maemo for years Mar 17 22:14:11 My answer is: Not me. I won't be the donkey for some economists who are trying to make me do what is best for their customers Mar 17 22:14:12 should he be dumped? Mar 17 22:14:45 not him, the nonfree software should be dumped for sure though. It is the perfect oportunity to switch. Mar 17 22:15:00 Sadly Reggie is responsible for making the forums work. Mar 17 22:15:12 for maemo, not meego. Mar 17 22:15:14 and he's got to assess the risk of a switch Mar 17 22:15:21 well, now he is for meego too Mar 17 22:15:31 yeah - but they're merging, not closing Mar 17 22:15:44 It's a big factor Mar 17 22:15:45 all of those arguments mean 0 to me though, you know? Mar 17 22:15:55 it's not a merge, its a new forum. Mar 17 22:16:08 yeah, it's a forum.... woop-de-doo Mar 17 22:16:26 * lbt counts the # forums on the internet Mar 17 22:16:29 exactly. Whoop de doo. A fucking forum. Something that could *so easily* be done freely. Mar 17 22:16:40 * lbt counts the number of OSS mobile device stacks Mar 17 22:16:44 it's not easy Mar 17 22:16:47 i'm sick of this shit. anyway, good luck. Mar 17 22:20:58 Yeah! Who needs pragmatism anyway! ;) Mar 17 22:21:28 sigh Mar 17 22:22:12 add a "le" in front of that and you're there Mar 17 22:24:31 * RST38h yawns Mar 17 22:25:01 * RST38h wonders what the hell prevented the maemo/meego management from maintaining meego forums at tmo Mar 17 22:25:35 ack Mar 17 22:26:02 except for the 770 farm :-P Mar 17 22:27:30 RST38h: the fact that it would look like Nokia is running the show, I'd guess. It's a gentle balance. Mar 17 22:28:36 Myrtti: You can have two completely separate themes for Maemo and Meego, it is all cosmetic =) Mar 17 22:29:05 And with Reggie administering it anyway... :) Mar 17 22:30:16 just put the boards on ezboards and be done with it :P Mar 17 22:30:43 Google Groups! Mar 17 22:30:45 * RST38h ducks Mar 17 22:31:18 blargh Mar 17 22:34:28 RST38h, hahaha I opened a wave do you want an invite ? Mar 17 22:38:51 hell, if that's the problems we got with meego, than I really hope that's all the problems we got Mar 17 22:53:56 Nokia would almost certainly like to avoid significant disruption until Maemo 6 is out the door, which is why meego is long on planning and short on action. Mar 17 22:55:20 It is, at the moment, a means of getting community input such that Intel/Nokia can't be accused of excluding the community from planning when Maemo shuts winds down and Meego winds up. Mar 17 22:56:34 How cunning! Mar 17 22:56:38 and? Mar 17 22:57:05 can see the Evil Plan clearly now! Mar 17 22:59:12 * lbt squints and realises that the world is in fact blurry Mar 17 23:00:39 I'm just a little concerned about this attitude that Meego is evil because of various reasonings involving it 1) not being maemo and 2) not really doing much yet are really only serving to convince people in charge that the community are not safe to make sane decisions for the future of the platform. Mar 17 23:01:09 *nod* Mar 17 23:01:50 although I think "the people in charge" are making a reasonable case for community control Mar 17 23:02:37 Announcing meego months ago instead of a year from now has been massively inconvenient for development and marketing momentum, and was really only done to get the community involved *very early*. Mar 17 23:03:19 * lbt is part of the choir Mar 17 23:11:46 lbt, what is yon role in the meego ? Mar 17 23:14:33 Concluding that Meego isn't listening to the community because things aren't getting done the way you'd like is rather childish at this point given the trouble and expense they've gone to to involve us. Mar 17 23:14:50 This isn't directed at you or anything lbt, just the attitude of some of the loudest community members. Mar 17 23:16:12 jrayhawk: Let me guess: you have not been part of the maemo community? Mar 17 23:16:22 A new guy? Mar 17 23:17:29 get him! Mar 17 23:18:57 I've been on the periphery since getting an N810; why? Mar 17 23:18:58 dcordes: I am one of the Mer devs and Nokia asked me to work for them setting up some build infrastructure. Mar 17 23:19:36 jrayhawk: 'cause you seem to be so eagerly optimistic, very unusual for someone who has been with the maemo community for a long time Mar 17 23:21:10 I'm an incredibly bitter person and even I can see that folks like Arjan give more of a shit about open development than Maemo ever did. Mar 17 23:21:50 lbt, git clone git://git.openembedded.org/openembedded.git openembedded Mar 17 23:21:51 Oh well, you will have your chance to get bitter all over again :) Mar 17 23:22:01 lbt, job done !!!!1 Mar 17 23:23:24 dcordes: I used to use OE and considered it for Mer Mar 17 23:23:48 in the end OBS was a better choice as a build manager Mar 17 23:23:53 lbt, why? Mar 17 23:24:04 Mer=Meego ? Mar 17 23:24:04 it uses native build tools Mar 17 23:24:27 and it does dependency based builds in a clean chroot Mar 17 23:24:51 Mer != Meego although Meego seems to promise most of Mer's aspirations Mar 17 23:25:02 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Mar 17 23:25:57 old terminology. new project Mar 17 23:25:58 confusing Mar 17 23:26:13 but openembedded so clean, so complete, so well maintained. Mar 17 23:26:25 so... unique Mar 17 23:26:31 it is the best in class cross build system Mar 17 23:26:43 so.... too late Mar 17 23:27:25 we don't want/need a cross build system Mar 17 23:27:39 we needed a build system manager/scheduler Mar 17 23:27:47 oe isn't Mar 17 23:27:48 hä? Mar 17 23:28:00 sorry let me read the wiki page. Mar 17 23:28:27 you have to click on community on the meego frontpage. but the frontpage should be community in a FOSS project Mar 17 23:28:30 imho Mar 17 23:28:46 and not what technical steering manager thought today Mar 17 23:31:30 I suspect that one reason for not choosing openembedded is that it's important to reinvent the wheel in such a project in order to not feel small Mar 17 23:34:02 night night Mar 17 23:34:11 night Mar 17 23:34:22 Too bad the CMS issue never had any actual discussion Mar 17 23:34:30 * GeneralAntilles isn't particularly looking forward to the Drupal future. Mar 17 23:35:17 lbt, so you are basing on opensuse Mar 17 23:35:47 dcordes: yes, that's right. It's a plot. Mar 17 23:36:12 General: At least it is not Midgard Mar 17 23:36:16 I thought mer was based on ubuntu...? Mar 17 23:36:29 RST38h, quite honestly, I prefer Midgard to Drupal. Mar 17 23:36:31 Myrtti: he had a clue but lost it ;) Mar 17 23:36:40 General: Drupal is THAT bad? Mar 17 23:36:53 RST38h, I've never enjoyed using it. Mar 17 23:36:59 I can't much say that I LIKE Midgard Mar 17 23:37:03 But I prefer it to Drupal. Mar 17 23:37:10 lbt: right, so it wasn't me who had lost my marbles then. good to know Mar 17 23:37:20 not even close Mar 17 23:37:22 lbt, it seems bloated Mar 17 23:37:24 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/09/opensuse_build_service_arm/ is decent background. Mar 17 23:37:26 who likes CMS's anyway Mar 17 23:37:30 Myrtti: ^^ see Mar 17 23:37:30 they're ALL crap Mar 17 23:37:48 true Mar 17 23:38:11 dcordes: you want to fight bloated? try this: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.html Mar 17 23:38:39 RST38h, a big part of it though is that I'm really not happy to see us inherit a bug of Moblin infrastructure sans discussion. Mar 17 23:38:39 lbt, I don't want to fight anything. but it's sad you folks don't seem very interested in any criticism Mar 17 23:38:46 RPM vs deb is one thing Mar 17 23:38:50 and a thing I can understand Mar 17 23:39:00 dcordes: you're not criticising. You're ranting without becoming informed Mar 17 23:39:19 OE is not the right tool. You were not here when the decision was made Mar 17 23:39:26 Status-quoing the CMS because moblin.org admins had more/better NDAs isn't a good way to start out a cohesive community. Mar 17 23:39:42 For a Debian based system to pick a tool from an RPM distro shows a certain open-mindedness no? Mar 17 23:40:06 dcordes, you sound like a troll, quite honestly. Mar 17 23:40:09 I don't understand where he picked up the OpenSuse thing Mar 17 23:40:21 OBS was written by opensuse guys Mar 17 23:40:26 "7:28:47 PM dcordes: I suspect that one reason for not choosing openembedded is that it's important to reinvent the wheel in such a project in order to not feel small" Mar 17 23:40:34 Just, FYI, that's not language that generally leads towards productive discussions. Mar 17 23:40:38 * RST38h gets some popcorn Mar 17 23:40:40 and we use it for Mer... so he thinks Meego is opensuse based... Mar 17 23:40:59 quite confused.... explains why he likes OE Mar 17 23:41:07 * lbt ducks Mar 17 23:41:08 GeneralAntilles, did I announce I want to be productive? Mar 17 23:41:10 lbt: so because Mer uses OBS to build Ubuntu packages, Meego is built on OpenSuse? Mar 17 23:41:17 yup Mar 17 23:41:27 ... Mar 17 23:41:27 I'm just lurking around and ranting a bit Mar 17 23:41:33 we noticed... Mar 17 23:41:35 dcordes, so you don't? Then kindly take your ranting elsewhere. Mar 17 23:41:44 before there were only sparta discussions so I thought I would give some thoughts Mar 17 23:42:01 meh, he's kinda learning... but not getting much cred... Mar 17 23:42:04 the logic is impeccable! I have to hand it to you guys Mar 17 23:42:10 great fortitude Mar 17 23:42:18 we try to be welcoming.... Mar 17 23:42:23 although at times... Mar 17 23:42:28 lbt, GeneralAntilles: you get 100 brownie points! Mar 17 23:42:36 ONE HUNDRED! Mar 17 23:42:42 \o/ Mar 17 23:42:43 three hundred Mar 17 23:42:57 <3 Mar 17 23:43:02 Myrtti, can it be 101? I'm hungry. :( Mar 17 23:43:04 you, Sir, have won the internets! Mar 17 23:43:14 * RST38h wonders if there is anyone interested in getting a watch made of coprolite, on a bracelet made of american cane toad skin Mar 17 23:43:45 RST38h, I'm quite certain there's at least one. Mar 17 23:43:51 GeneralAntilles, who are you to ask me to leave? Mar 17 23:44:05 GeneralAntilles: I've got some nice salad if you're intrested. Romaine, rocket, frisé, normal lettuce, carrot, feta cheese... ranch dressing Mar 17 23:44:13 mmm Mar 17 23:44:15 Ranch Mar 17 23:44:16 Ha Mar 17 23:44:31 What is "normal" lettuce? Mar 17 23:44:36 green Mar 17 23:44:40 I've got some ingredients for italian dressing but no oil or vinegar :-/ Mar 17 23:44:53 wine + butter? Mar 17 23:45:04 kinda close Mar 17 23:45:09 lbt, it's all good didn't want to hurt any feelings. actually I'm looking quite interested forward to the meego output. so godspeed. Mar 17 23:45:16 could taste quite nice actually Mar 17 23:45:42 GeneralAntilles: I'm not sure, I just bought some premixed stuff from Whole Foods Market Mar 17 23:45:47 dcordes: :) and we did think carefully. Mar 17 23:45:55 the highly critical attitude is caused by the economic interests behind things Mar 17 23:46:11 * lbt has to go and hands his baton to GeneralAntilles....night all Mar 17 23:46:49 dcordes: Skip to the main subject: Is ZOG involved? =) Mar 17 23:46:49 * GeneralAntilles is economically interested in not wasting eye-ball juice reading rants. Mar 17 23:47:17 iä iä shubniggurath Mar 17 23:49:42 well well have fun everybody Mar 17 23:50:21 Gotta love when they save the vitriolic stuff for /msg. Mar 17 23:51:12 I still don't understand how he made the logical leap to "Meego is based on OpenSuse". It's intellectually not valid. Mar 17 23:51:43 Myrtti, as far as I can tell, many people need new Linux distributions to be based on other, bigger ones. Mar 17 23:51:55 Makes it easier to understand, I guess. Mar 17 23:52:05 Even when it doesn't actually help understanding reality. Mar 18 00:14:52 XP Mar 18 00:43:50 Oh, Intel Mar 18 00:43:55 So unfaithful to MeeGo already. Mar 18 00:44:03 oh? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 18 02:59:56 2010