**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 29 02:59:57 2010 Mar 29 03:03:25 is the moblin project dead ? (in leiu of meego) Mar 29 03:46:35 privatehuff, not dead Mar 29 03:46:38 more renamed Mar 29 03:46:55 Since MeeGo is way more Moblin than it is Maemo. Mar 29 06:26:31 is there a possibility of meego becoming a distro for desktops or laptops? Mar 29 06:27:09 well, netbooks are a target Mar 29 07:07:57 morning Mar 29 07:08:40 morning Mar 29 07:16:31 morning Mar 29 07:16:54 rwg thoughts anyone Mar 29 07:25:13 lbt900, planning on presenting rwg to tsg this wednesday? Mar 29 07:57:53 polac: that's the idea :) Mar 29 07:59:21 ugh, need coffee Mar 29 08:04:41 lbt, Good! waiting is killing me. At least something is happening. :) Mar 29 08:09:47 I've been prodding people to provide feedback - qgil had some arguments that the RWG is a part of the CWG. I disagree and I'd like to make sure we address his points Mar 29 08:14:03 please be clear if you're talking about the DEB repository only, or the RPM one, or both Mar 29 08:14:16 and whether you mean the core MeeGo or just the open source "Extras" Mar 29 08:14:39 hi Mar 29 08:17:04 thiago: is that at me? Mar 29 08:17:13 yes Mar 29 08:17:21 did you read the ml posts? Mar 29 08:17:26 and the wiki page? Mar 29 08:17:31 ML yes, wiki no Mar 29 08:17:36 http://wiki.meego.com/Proposal_for_a_Repository_working_group Mar 29 08:17:47 100% rpm... nothing to do with Deb Mar 29 08:18:32 a separate deb repo has been jeremiah's proposal Mar 29 08:19:05 indeed - and there would be assistance and support as there would be to any community members/projects Mar 29 08:19:38 but I expect they would track the RWG and it's unlikely indeed to mention debs anywhere Mar 29 08:24:11 thiago: ping me with questions/comments - this has to be finalised today for a wed meeting Mar 29 09:15:03 qgil is not online, hmph Mar 29 09:19:14 work day Mar 29 09:21:09 * Tm_T huggles thiago instead Mar 29 09:21:50 This is the week Mar 29 09:21:57 yes, it's the Easter week Mar 29 09:22:00 Hope everyones excited Mar 29 09:22:18 Yeah, nail'em up friday and Zombie sunday Mar 29 09:22:33 slaine: for incoming april 1st ? Mar 29 09:22:46 Day 1 is March 31st Mar 29 09:22:55 day one being april first would be comical ;) Mar 29 09:23:03 hehe Mar 29 09:23:03 "yes, we decided to go with android" Mar 29 09:23:33 Stskeeps: no need to curse |; Mar 29 09:24:20 that a-word always reminds me of one dead phone... Mar 29 09:30:06 hello Mar 29 09:30:11 hello Mar 29 09:30:42 hello from stockholm (kista) Mar 29 09:31:15 how's the weather? Mar 29 09:31:44 it was very foggy on Saturday, it's sunny now, and there are nice windows in the office here :) Mar 29 09:31:55 oh, and instead of having a really stupid floorplan, they have a sensible one Mar 29 09:32:14 it is possible to actually navigate sanely there? Mar 29 09:32:14 :P Mar 29 09:32:30 two desks side by side, with two desks facing them... repeated in rows and columns Mar 29 09:32:42 in this office? yeah, in the city? kinda Mar 29 09:33:21 arg. i can't find any qt people :( Mar 29 09:33:29 yeah, we hide Mar 29 09:33:37 ok, tag, you're it. Mar 29 09:33:44 i see code that looks like this: Mar 29 09:33:46 QApplication::postEvent(this, new QKeyEvent(QEvent::KeyPress, Qt::Key_Enter, 0)); Mar 29 09:33:48 * thiago points out the existence of #qt and #qt-labs Mar 29 09:34:07 Coverity complains about the fact that the QKeyEvent created there doesn't get deleted anywhere Mar 29 09:34:20 already asked in #qt Mar 29 09:34:32 the event loop deletes it Mar 29 09:34:41 ok Mar 29 09:34:57 so, probably coverity found the idiotic STUB implementations which do not Mar 29 09:35:02 * timeless grumbles Mar 29 09:35:19 timeless: that code works on s60 phones at least Mar 29 09:35:21 no, it's probably that coverity can't follow the event queue Mar 29 09:35:48 deletion happens in QCoreApplicationPrivate::sendPostedEvents(QObject*, int, QThread*) Mar 29 09:36:24 I should put my Qt code to github too, I also had some issues with postevent's, but I can't remember the case Mar 29 09:36:26 qcoreapplication.cpp:1361 or thereabouts Mar 29 09:36:29 thiago: coverity is supposed to be able to recognize whether a variable escapes Mar 29 09:36:49 * thiago recommends gitorious for various reasons Mar 29 09:36:54 yeah Mar 29 09:37:03 foremost among them that it's hosted in Oslo, so it's very fast for me :-) Mar 29 09:37:09 this is a case where coverity found a bogus stub impl Mar 29 09:37:39 is dui open enough that it can be found in gitorious? Mar 29 09:37:45 dui is on gitorious Mar 29 09:37:50 yeah, it's on qt.gitorious.org Mar 29 09:37:58 right next to its "competitor" Mar 29 09:38:09 nothing competes with dead code Mar 29 09:38:12 why bother? Mar 29 09:38:15 just more dead code Mar 29 09:38:30 stskeeps: so how do i find a file in it? Mar 29 09:39:17 as in "I don't know where this file is, search it for me" or "let me browse the tree" ? Mar 29 09:39:36 i don't want to have to figure out which stupid repository is hiding this stupid file Mar 29 09:39:57 and if you don't think it's stupid, well, see pastebin :) Mar 29 09:40:15 as i said, coverity is good at finding crappy stubs Mar 29 09:40:16 :) Mar 29 09:40:22 we have this idiotic approach to unit testing Mar 29 09:40:30 ouch Mar 29 09:40:32 where people are encouraged to write crappy stubs for everything Mar 29 09:40:45 which makes coverity incredibly noisy Mar 29 09:40:54 because why shouldn't it follow a path from real code into a stub? Mar 29 09:41:00 seems perfectly reasonable to me :/ Mar 29 09:41:16 the link you're looking for is: http://qt.gitorious.org/maemo-6-ui-framework/libdui/blobs/master/tests/ut_duipannablewidget/ut_duipannablewidget.cpp#line178 Mar 29 09:41:29 (i.e. coverity's logic is logical, the management approach is insane) Mar 29 09:41:53 thanks :) Mar 29 09:42:09 now everyone can poke their eyes out :) Mar 29 09:42:15 those function-hijacking... they are bound to break Mar 29 09:42:22 Qt is often compiled with -Bsymbolic-functions Mar 29 09:43:07 timeless: I lost my appetite... Mar 29 09:43:16 i think i tried to warn you Mar 29 09:43:17 or is it daylight savings.... Mar 29 09:44:24 well, since i flew from HEL to ARN on Friday and the time zones moved around on Sun Mar 29 09:44:30 i'm not sure i really noticed :) Mar 29 09:45:50 timeless: I can probably accept .mht, sorry, I had to run off the other day Mar 29 09:48:23 sorry, i'm ok Mar 29 09:48:35 well, if i ignore a headache Mar 29 09:48:45 someone a few rows away is playing some piano/classical? music Mar 29 09:48:54 * timeless doesn't think the headache is related Mar 29 09:49:10 probably flu Mar 29 09:49:10 :P Mar 29 09:51:20 stskeeps: yeah, quite likely, i'm still taking medicine for it :( Mar 29 10:03:01 thiago: how familiar are you w/ gcc's optimization support? Mar 29 10:03:09 (actually, this question is really for anyone) Mar 29 10:03:13 http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/gfx/thebes/src/gfxPangoFonts.cpp?mark=2563-2564,2568,2570,2572-2597#2563 Mar 29 10:03:16 then make the question :-) Mar 29 10:03:44 will the compiler recognize that the last green block is unreachable if MOZ_GFX_OPTIMIZE_MOBILE is defined Mar 29 10:04:07 no Mar 29 10:04:07 (and by recognizing it, manage to drop that blob) Mar 29 10:04:12 hinting isn't always true Mar 29 10:04:21 it's only true if that function returns FcResultMatch Mar 29 10:08:54 lbt: i know i'm lagging behind, just writing everything :D will have it done by this evening. Mar 29 10:13:30 hi Mar 29 10:40:47 thiago: i'm interested in the case where MOZ_GFX_OPTIMIZE_MOBILE is defined Mar 29 10:41:01 if it's defined, then the block you're reading won't be compiled Mar 29 10:45:49 * thiago misread it then Mar 29 10:46:09 right, then the compiler optimises out dead code Mar 29 15:32:17 lbt: ping Mar 29 15:32:35 lbt: I would like to set up my own OBS - do you have any docs? Mar 29 15:32:43 The site is kinda lacking :/ Mar 29 15:32:53 jeremiah_: No kidding ;) Mar 29 15:32:56 moo jeremiah Mar 29 15:33:21 :) Mar 29 15:33:51 jeremiah_: installed openSUSE 11.2 already? Mar 29 15:34:30 if not, that's a start :P Mar 29 15:34:49 Seems quite hard to do without it. Mar 29 15:35:01 X-Fade: Ick. I hope I don't have to Mar 29 15:35:04 you do Mar 29 15:35:15 So much for no vendor lock-in Mar 29 15:35:17 i mean, technically it can run without, but the guides are for opensuse Mar 29 15:35:18 well Mar 29 15:35:34 considering that you can build debian -and- rpm systems on there, it is a bit opposite vendor lock in Mar 29 15:35:38 :P Mar 29 15:35:54 they probably just need people packaging it up for debian Mar 29 15:35:55 :P Mar 29 15:35:59 jeremiah_: if you want, please do try it without - and while you're at it, i'd suggest you write a non-distribution-specific guide so others can follow your example ;) Mar 29 15:36:01 Only the lock in is with the build system itself :P Mar 29 15:36:17 leinir: Sure. I'm stupid enough to try. :) Mar 29 15:36:28 Can someone point me to relevant docs? Mar 29 15:36:33 Hard to negotiate the site. Mar 29 15:36:37 Hey, this is open source - you got an itch? Scratch it! ;) Mar 29 15:36:59 I'm itchy all over. Mar 29 15:37:13 Feel like I fell in poison ivy Mar 29 15:38:36 Guess it is time to drop into #opensuse-buildservice Mar 29 15:51:10 Hmm, Gitorious looks down. Mar 29 15:51:13 That's interesting. Mar 29 16:18:11 jeremiah_: ping me in an hour... I have cut'n'paste for you Mar 29 16:18:30 do minimal server only 11.2 install on a VM Mar 29 16:18:44 or google "OBS appliance" Mar 29 16:18:46 l8r Mar 29 17:11:17 lbt_: ping Mar 29 17:13:55 lbt_: i'm just wondering if there is much that we need anyway after (i guess you?) updated the wiki page so niceley... Mar 29 17:48:02 well yeah, i just read your mail now. good work lbt_ and sorry for not being around to help... Mar 29 18:00:22 Hi, I have a query regarding maemo, moblin / meego - do you have root access to the device as standard? Mar 29 18:02:07 svscvsc: you have root access to Maemo devices Mar 29 18:02:21 there are currently no MeeGo devices. When they ship, we'll see. Mar 29 18:02:44 guys, will meego access camera via gstreamer like maemo? Mar 29 18:02:48 I see. To me that makes maemo the platform that can win between iPhone / Android Mar 29 18:03:10 trumee: probabbly, generally they request to have the v4l2 implemented by the hardware vendor Mar 29 18:03:25 then they can use gstreamer normally to access the camera, take pictures and so on Mar 29 18:03:35 svscvsc: root access is *usually* not part of the win criteria Mar 29 18:03:51 maemo 5 is using the camerabin, so I think that they will work on a similar solution at the future Mar 29 18:03:59 rsalveti: great. so what is the role of qt-mobility project? Mar 29 18:04:04 thiago, but it connotes a lot of flexibility that will allow the platform to thrive and adapt and basically meet more peoples needs more of the time Mar 29 18:04:31 trumee: thiago can say more about it, but I believe that it's just an abstraction layer on top of different components Mar 29 18:04:32 svscvsc: sorry, but no Mar 29 18:04:39 The open philosophy, it's my phone. If I want an encrypted contact book, I could get it on maemo, but not on android / iPhone as you cannot tinker with the contact list apps Mar 29 18:04:44 svscvsc: the goal of the project is to have flexibility and be very, very open Mar 29 18:04:49 svscvsc: unlike those other two platforms Mar 29 18:04:59 svscvsc: but that doesn't mean all devices need to have root access Mar 29 18:05:01 thiago, that is what I just said... Mar 29 18:05:14 trumee: so in the end I would say that qt-mobility will use gstreamer to access the camera device Mar 29 18:05:14 thiago: what will change once qt-mobility is ready for maemo5/6 Mar 29 18:05:24 svscvsc, I mean, having root access, as a philosophy, being able to change the contact list app for instance, that is what I mean Mar 29 18:05:33 but, they could use the v4l2 directly, so I not 100% sure about it Mar 29 18:06:08 thiago: will qt-mobility support N900? Mar 29 18:06:09 trumee: nothing will change Mar 29 18:06:17 Is anyone here working for Nokia? Mar 29 18:06:21 qt-mobility will probably support Harmattan first Mar 29 18:06:25 a lot of people :-) Mar 29 18:06:26 Fremantle soon thereafter Mar 29 18:06:37 thiago: but how about the camera devices? Mar 29 18:06:40 svscvsc: fairly good guess that there are, yes ;) Mar 29 18:06:51 rsalveti: I have no idea about them Mar 29 18:07:02 the Camera API is being implemented as part of the Multimedia module Mar 29 18:07:07 I think they will keep using gstreamer, but I not that sure about it Mar 29 18:07:14 that doesn't mean it will stay there. That doesn't mean it needs to be gstreamer either. Mar 29 18:07:27 they could use v4l2 with OMX directly, but I guess that this is a lot of work Mar 29 18:07:29 making assumptions about the underlying technology is bad anyway Mar 29 18:08:17 yeah, but needs to be flexible in a way the hardware vendors can implement different multimedia support easily Mar 29 18:08:22 I have one final, kinda big question (since I am still grokking the sites) - the development kit - is it all native, or is there a Java layer on top of this, exposing things like accellerometer / camera / other features (and you can develop in this, or natice) Mar 29 18:08:23 thiago: is there any way to access the camera for a qt app in N900 presently? Mar 29 18:08:30 s/natice/native Mar 29 18:08:32 trumee: the Camera API is not ready Mar 29 18:08:44 trumee: you can access via non-Qt API Mar 29 18:08:45 no java afaik Mar 29 18:08:50 evening DawnFoster Mar 29 18:08:56 thiago: ah! ok Mar 29 18:08:59 yeah, at the moment you can use the gstreamer or v4l2 directly Mar 29 18:09:10 need to go, meeting :-( Mar 29 18:10:07 thiago: is there any example of a qt app accessing camera via a non-qt api? Mar 29 18:10:16 trumee: I have no clue Mar 29 18:10:18 probably not Mar 29 18:10:57 I am confused, isn't qt just a windowing toolkit? Mar 29 18:11:04 buttons, scrollers, components, events et al? Mar 29 18:11:15 nope. its more than that Mar 29 18:11:16 svscvsc: no, it's an application development framework Mar 29 18:11:22 ah. I see Mar 29 18:11:39 the UI part of Qt is, pardon the pun, the most visible part Mar 29 18:11:41 http://qt.nokia.com/doc/4.7-snapshot/index.html <- wander around that Mar 29 18:11:48 so a qt app cannot use a camera at all then. too bad. Mar 29 18:11:49 but there's a lot more Mar 29 18:12:03 trumee: 20:08 < thiago> trumee: you can access via non-Qt API Mar 29 18:12:07 trumee, but can't a qt app just make the call to get the data, and paint it onto a panel? Mar 29 18:12:16 trumee: from "you can access" you concluded that "you cannot access", how? Mar 29 18:12:19 or am I being naive here Mar 29 18:12:48 thiago: well couldnt find example of any code Mar 29 18:13:01 trumee: just because it has not been done does not mean it isn't possible Mar 29 18:13:08 it simply means that nobody has done it Mar 29 18:13:36 trumee: ok, so from "no one has done it before" you concluded "it cannot be done" ? Mar 29 18:13:48 thiago: yes :) Mar 29 18:13:53 that's a bit defeatist Mar 29 18:14:13 you don't get anything without some effort. So put some brainpower into it. Mar 29 18:14:40 thiago, where is the source code for the non-qt stuff? Mar 29 18:15:03 i.e. where would the 'native' (or non-qt... what do we call 'non-qt'?) code for camera access be? Mar 29 18:15:07 is it possible to write code for the camera using the SDK but which uses the desktop webcam. The intention is not to use the N900 for development. Mar 29 18:15:22 svscvsc: s/native/platform-specific/ Mar 29 18:15:28 ah. ah. ouch Mar 29 18:15:53 How much platform specific work do android phones go through? I think they are all pretty standardized right? Mar 29 18:16:14 lbt: You rock my world. Mar 29 18:16:26 But it's been two hours and you're not here Mar 29 18:16:54 svscvsc: they are entirely platform-specific Mar 29 18:17:04 svscvsc: as in "Android-specific" Mar 29 18:17:19 Android has very, very little that is cross-platform, even to other Linux-based devices Mar 29 18:17:22 I thought you mean 'platform specific' meaning hardware-specific Mar 29 18:17:31 no, I meant software platform Mar 29 18:17:51 thiago is (afaik) mostly a software guy - so he's biased :P Mar 29 18:17:53 Right. OK. So, where is the 'platform' code for meego / maemo - or whichever the person is asking about the camera for :-) Mar 29 18:17:54 Android vs standard Linux vs other platforms (Solaris, Windows, Mac, Symbian, whatever) Mar 29 18:18:26 Android == kernel + VM + APIs, quite a nice layer IMHO Mar 29 18:19:27 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components/Camera_API_Usage <- I presume this is related, as far as Maemo is concerned Mar 29 18:19:50 So, which is the base /linux/ being used for meego? Or is it just a kernel version plus a few low level libs / daemons ? Mar 29 18:19:55 MeeGo will probably prefer QtMobility, or alternatively, whatever specific interfaces vendors have Mar 29 18:19:59 svscvsc: meego itself Mar 29 18:20:01 svscvsc: MeeGo is the base Mar 29 18:20:28 ... so what is meego? is it a linux kernel + userspace derrivative of linux? Mar 29 18:20:39 meego is a full linux stack Mar 29 18:20:58 ah ok, so you are saying it is its own distro, I get it Mar 29 18:21:01 * w00t_ would say: a Linux distribution for mobile devices Mar 29 18:21:05 yeah Mar 29 18:21:18 several (confusing) ways of describing what it is :) Mar 29 18:21:28 ok. Nice. So, where are the sources for meego (or whichever flavor has video access) Mar 29 18:21:44 they aren't yet available, first code release is this week Mar 29 18:21:45 w00t_: can that camera C api be called from within qt? Mar 29 18:21:56 And, those video drivers need to be added for each available hardware camera? Mar 29 18:22:11 trumee: given that Qt is a C++ library, and C++ is a subset of C, yes Mar 29 18:22:30 so when XYZ company makes a 1 petapixel mobile phone camera, they'll add a driver for it that gets loaded into meego, and exposed through a standard mechnism? Mar 29 18:22:30 svscvsc: what camera drivers are you interested in? Mar 29 18:22:53 auke, none in specifics, just getting an idea how far alone the concept of having augmented reality apps in a meego store is :-) Mar 29 18:22:59 if said camera driver gets merged into the linux kernel, it's all that is really needed Mar 29 18:22:59 s/alone/along Mar 29 18:23:11 right, gotcha Mar 29 18:23:41 auke++ Mar 29 18:23:53 also, s/sub/super/ Mar 29 18:23:53 bah. Mar 29 18:24:58 unfortunately, i have used qt only. it will be helpfull if somebody can point to using gstreamer code like above in a qt app. Mar 29 18:25:00 Thanks for the code release info w00t_ . I guess the code will support any camera drivers that exist, and the code forms the platform APIs that are exposed to meego developers? Mar 29 18:25:49 trumee, not knowing the code or specifics, it looks like you want to retreive frame data, and display it onto a paintable area (creating your own video display) this of course has no acceleration. Mar 29 18:25:51 hardware drivers ideally will all be merged in the linux kernel, and meego will build on the standard kernel API's Mar 29 18:25:58 it may be a bit early to be expecting camera stuff to be mature right now be.. what auke said Mar 29 18:25:59 so, V4L, etc Mar 29 18:26:08 "ideally" :) Mar 29 18:26:14 auke: you type too quickly Mar 29 18:26:15 :) Mar 29 18:26:35 I see. So you could also just code directly into V4L? Mar 29 18:26:50 (on a side note, is anyone here based on Berlin right now?) Mar 29 18:27:32 s/on/in - hey, my MacBook was pre-13"Pro and doesn't have backlit keyboard, and my office is dark! :-) Mar 29 18:28:41 trumee: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1873113/how-to-implement-a-video-widget-in-qt-that-builds-upon-gstreamer may be relevant, I really don't know :) Mar 29 18:29:07 you can probably use gstreamer to grab video frames, though V4L, yes Mar 29 18:29:13 that would be a nicely layered design Mar 29 18:29:49 w00t_: thanks Mar 29 18:30:31 auke, I've developed some security systems that process video frames, graph changes, store millions of HD frames a day across servers, it worked well, was written in Java, exposed all the camera information through http to reduce any native code issues and platform issues across the other clients Mar 29 18:31:12 sure, sounds like it was an interesting project :) Mar 29 18:32:18 I watched the TED talk which showed the photosynth / GPS / streetview matching 'demo', a live mobile video broadcast that gets remapped to the static image Mar 29 18:33:29 It was something I've been wanting to do for a while, using either google data sets, or some others (there are other companies doing street mapping data). Imagine a video call that zooms in on the globe to the person you are talking to, and allows them to use a shared local context when talking to you Mar 29 18:33:56 Like, pointing the phone, giving you directions to where they exactly are. Seems a natural API for sharing how to get here info. Mar 29 20:25:56 * lbt looks around at the hive of activity leading up to day 1.... Mar 29 20:26:05 WAKE UP EVERYONE!!! Mar 29 20:26:08 gah Mar 29 20:26:17 * CosmoHill falls out of bed Mar 29 20:26:22 or we could talk about hifi Mar 29 20:26:28 :) Mar 29 20:26:47 does meego use pulseaudio... Mar 29 20:27:01 can we install jack ? Mar 29 20:27:13 touch screen mixing desks! Mar 29 20:27:23 oo, i have a little idea of what you're talking about Mar 29 20:27:39 google is your friend Mar 29 20:27:58 http://www.mixxx.org/ Mar 29 20:28:28 lbt: a cluster of jogglers for mixing Mar 29 20:28:47 I was just eyeing mine Mar 29 20:28:56 the capacitive screen might come in handy Mar 29 20:28:57 :P Mar 29 20:29:19 actually that interface is almost touchable as-os Mar 29 20:29:21 is Mar 29 20:31:05 interesting Mar 29 20:32:48 lbt: we've not got a cable yet Mar 29 20:32:55 so we're gonna have to go out tomorrow and get one :) Mar 29 20:33:47 shoulda ordered one - cpc ship fast Mar 29 20:33:57 and miles better than Richer Sounds Mar 29 20:35:12 postage is 1/2 the price of the cable Mar 29 20:35:39 oh Mar 29 20:35:41 nm Mar 29 20:35:59 £10 cable, £5 postage Mar 29 20:40:01 lbt: good night :P Mar 29 20:40:35 night th0br0 - seen the updates to the page Mar 29 20:40:41 lbt: sure. Mar 29 20:40:43 and I put it on the proposals Mar 29 20:40:48 yep. Mar 29 20:40:54 we're getting a little argument in the ml Mar 29 20:41:00 yeah, i read that... Mar 29 20:41:04 although i don't really see qgil's point Mar 29 20:41:25 no, me neither... by that arg "there can be only one" Mar 29 20:41:49 * lbt wasn't sure if qgil has the throat to pull that off ;) Mar 29 20:41:52 ;) Mar 29 20:42:31 was going to prod DawnFoster again... Mar 29 20:42:44 hi lbt :) Mar 29 20:42:59 hey there :) Mar 29 20:43:27 :D Mar 29 20:43:28 CRWG proposal and debates on the ml... Mar 29 20:44:16 Tero said my email was long and confusing :( Mar 29 20:44:30 he's finnish though :) Mar 29 20:44:50 verbosity is a curse sometimes Mar 29 20:44:51 :P Mar 29 20:45:07 I found it explanative. Mar 29 20:45:29 I'm still trying to figure out the WGs in general. Mar 29 20:45:45 the finns never use 3 words when 17 is a bare minimum for comprehension! Mar 29 20:45:52 my preference is to push as much of the work into the main projects the way we did with localization Mar 29 20:46:28 I think the argument here depends on whether meego has a 'supported' core Mar 29 20:46:38 until we get a little more clarity on the overall meego project structure, I'm not sure how the individual WGs fit in Mar 29 20:46:52 hey people Mar 29 20:46:55 define 'supported core'? Mar 29 20:47:03 but why is qgil always ripping those threads apart... thunderbird mostly makes his messages new posts... Mar 29 20:47:04 and I think it has to have that - ie packages where Meego takes responsibility for the maintainer Mar 29 20:47:23 and finds a new one if the maintainer goes MIA Mar 29 20:47:43 and defining 'supported' is indeed important Mar 29 20:48:01 I assume that some packages *won't* be in Meego Mar 29 20:48:10 these are "unsupported" :) Mar 29 20:48:29 * Stskeeps liked his own 'company' analogy Mar 29 20:48:32 defining 'supported' is more or less up to the TSG imho. there's only so much that the community can do on its own "behind the scenes"... Mar 29 20:48:47 yep... but whatever they decide Mar 29 20:49:01 we're on the other side of the line (at least with RWG hats on) Mar 29 20:49:11 That's exactly why I want to see the project stucture before we make too many assumptions about what is / is not supported Mar 29 20:49:45 we've seen it though Mar 29 20:49:48 it's moblin Mar 29 20:49:54 dammit, i search for "RCA cable" and got four vacuum cleaners! Mar 29 20:50:00 or so close as makes no difference Mar 29 20:50:07 lbt: like what? :P Mar 29 20:50:08 true more or less Mar 29 20:50:10 give or take 50% Mar 29 20:50:11 I'm going to try to get all of this into the TSG agenda for Wednesday Mar 29 20:50:36 so long as they read the wiki and probably that thread Mar 29 20:51:08 i just hope with day one that things start running more smoothly :P Mar 29 20:51:09 DawnFoster: if you don't mind my asking, what's your background? do you have a profile anywhere? Mar 29 20:51:20 wasn't day one supposed to be today or sth like that? Mar 29 20:51:21 lbt - put a link to the thread in the wiki, and I'll do what I can to make sure they read the wiki proposals :) Mar 29 20:51:33 crack the whip on them! Mar 29 20:51:44 lbt sure: http://fastwonderblog.com/about/ Mar 29 20:51:49 th0br0: hopefully not Mar 29 20:51:49 :P Mar 29 20:51:58 * Stskeeps is relaxing way too much then Mar 29 20:52:00 Stskeeps: no idea, i can't remember really Mar 29 20:52:11 i've done everything from unix sys admin to marketing, but lately focused on community management Mar 29 20:52:43 it just helps to know what area you understand - I can't tell if you have that glazed look I so often see ;) Mar 29 20:52:44 th0br0: a good guess would be 31st Mar 29 20:52:48 yep Mar 29 20:53:23 th0br0: a better guess would be 23:59 on 31st at GMT+13 Mar 29 20:53:28 ;) Mar 29 20:53:32 ah, a longer deadline Mar 29 20:53:32 or Mar 29 20:53:33 i'm in Mar 29 20:53:34 :P Mar 29 20:53:41 00:00 on 1st at GMT+13 Mar 29 20:53:42 ;) Mar 29 20:53:49 But then, given that it'll be april fool's day... Mar 29 20:56:43 th0br0: I use tbird - but you're right the thread is pooched Mar 29 20:56:47 ^^ Mar 29 20:56:51 i use tbird too Mar 29 20:57:06 that is, if tbird == the bird with the thunder. Mar 29 20:57:06 it'll be interesting to see if the merit thing will work for employees too, as in, to gain access/commits you'll need to have merit as well Mar 29 20:57:18 it's a shame that it makes such blunders. Mar 29 20:57:20 ;) Mar 29 20:57:32 Stskeeps: likely not... Mar 29 20:57:45 there will probably be some funny situations :P Mar 29 20:57:56 and it's most often the actualy employees's packages that are in a horrible condition ;) Mar 29 20:59:04 i see it as a bit of a problem if people can 'jump the line' because of the people in charge of a WG/team is in same company, but that's just me :) Mar 29 20:59:25 Stskeeps: we're always careful in Collabora to hold each other to the same standards we do outsiders Mar 29 20:59:36 * Stskeeps nods Mar 29 21:00:13 Robot101: thoughts on the Repo WG ? Mar 29 21:00:15 Stskeeps: the problem is, it cuts both ways. we are incredibly pedantic and thorough at code reviews, and it can be a bit of a shock/surprise to would-be external contributors Mar 29 21:00:50 Robot101: externals (my god, the nokia terminology..) also need to know that there are hard demands if you want to push out an actual consumer product Mar 29 21:01:13 Stskeeps: I've been ext-Robert McQueen for the past 5 years, I'm surprised they let us drink the coffee... :) Mar 29 21:01:16 crap code doesn't work on either side :) Mar 29 21:01:33