**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 07 02:59:57 2010 Apr 07 03:54:32 hi guys. I've downloaded the netbook imgae from http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/images/ , dd'ed it to a SD disk, boot up, & select an option from the ment: run or install. neither option work & I'm missing /usr/bin/liveint Apr 07 03:57:10 is anyone online, or just otherwise distracted? Apr 07 05:46:41 hi Apr 07 05:47:07 are there a developer for Meego? Apr 07 05:53:26 it's not the best time to ask for people Apr 07 07:28:27 hey all Apr 07 07:29:04 is possible to run custom build image for mmego to run on qemu? Apr 07 07:29:22 x86 or arm Apr 07 07:29:43 Stskeeps: try to build for arm Apr 07 07:30:07 we have a n900 one at least Apr 07 07:30:44 I try to follow wiki to run image on qemu but I'm not N900 owner so I don't have IMEI and I can't download it Apr 07 07:30:52 so I try to build it by myself Apr 07 07:31:03 strange is that result image has 4G Apr 07 07:31:06 it's normal? Apr 07 07:31:42 I used arm-n900.ks Apr 07 07:33:39 that's for loop images Apr 07 07:33:56 ok and how can I create image for qemu? Apr 07 07:34:03 other input option? Apr 07 07:35:40 Stskeeps: anyway mic-image-creator and also mic-check-alldep has a problems on opensuse Apr 07 07:35:47 can I send somewhere path? Apr 07 09:36:00 morning Apr 07 09:36:41 morn dneary__ Apr 07 09:37:06 dneary__: good morning Apr 07 10:45:11 hello, anybody know if TSG meeting agenda on the wiki (http://wiki.meego.com/TSG_meetings) is up to date? Just trying to decide if I'll hang around tonight or not, currently there doesn't seem to be much of interest Apr 07 10:45:56 i'd say those are actually quite big :P Apr 07 10:46:10 as in, for work Apr 07 10:48:29 how? there doesn't seem to be any specific decisions to be taken other than documentation license (which is not terribly exciting, even if it is necessary) Apr 07 10:48:47 well, knowing how the WG's and work is supposed to be structured and who is put in as initial roles Apr 07 10:48:59 i personally would like who to poke over issues, instead of bothering the TSG Apr 07 10:51:06 well, since I've not been asked for any role, I assume I won't have one, so I can just read the outcome tomorrow, no need to attend in person Apr 07 10:52:04 :nod: Apr 07 10:52:12 yeah, i read minutes these days too unless i have some items Apr 07 10:54:08 Uh, who is in charge of putting the forum on meego.com? Apparently, some link is wrong, as after clicking log in (from the forum page) and logging in successfully, you're redirected to meego.com/forum and not forum.meego.com Apr 07 10:54:16 or should that find its way to bugzilla? Apr 07 10:54:32 Reggie Apr 07 10:54:38 Stskeeps: ? Apr 07 10:54:44 th0br0: Bug raised Apr 07 10:54:48 the guy in charge, Reggie Suplido or something :) Apr 07 10:54:52 th0br0: http://bugzilla.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=551 Apr 07 10:54:54 ah. Apr 07 10:54:55 thanks Jaffa Apr 07 10:55:00 th0br0: Going to be fixed today, apparently. Apr 07 10:55:39 ok. Apr 07 14:57:05 Just a quick reminder that we are having a TSG meeting in 4 hours: Wednesday 19:00 UTC in #meego-meeting, questions in #meego-meeting-questions Apr 07 14:57:23 Agenda & other logistics: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings Apr 07 14:58:48 looking forward to see the two first, organisation is a bit of a blur atm :P Apr 07 15:35:08 yep Stskeeps Apr 07 17:12:14 what is meego using for boot splash Apr 07 17:13:23 is it plymouth? Apr 07 17:26:49 yes Apr 07 17:26:54 plymouth-lite Apr 07 17:37:38 what is plymouth? Apr 07 17:38:13 it's a car Apr 07 17:38:42 ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok Apr 07 17:40:39 * TSCHAKeee got bored... http://www.localeconcept.com/pub/SmartQV7/orbiter-glamour-shot-smartq-v7.png Apr 07 17:41:13 is it v7 or q7? Apr 07 17:43:04 Stskeeps: V7 Apr 07 17:43:22 they both look the same from the front Apr 07 17:44:43 what kernel does that have? version wise Apr 07 17:57:50 Stskeeps: good question, let me see :D Apr 07 17:59:14 Stskeeps: looks like a vanilla 2.6.28 with PREEMPT enabled, built for armv6l Apr 07 17:59:30 k Apr 07 18:00:08 built in chinese fashion, slam the hardware together, does it turn on, okay, port the most basic linux we can think of, does it boot up and launch apps? okay? SHIP IT! Apr 07 18:00:11 :P Apr 07 18:01:48 well, sortof, the guys behind are actually fairly nice :) Apr 07 18:02:01 have you talked with them? Apr 07 18:02:12 i'm frustrated there is no Mali200 support :((( Apr 07 18:02:53 a few of us have been able to use the BSP to do OpenGL-ES support, but no X Apr 07 18:02:58 and getting it to that point, was absolutely painful Apr 07 18:03:09 they push their kernel to us once in a while still Apr 07 18:03:30 good Apr 07 18:03:41 Stskeeps: this hardware has some great potential Apr 07 18:03:58 Stskeeps: but the lack of device drivers for the interesting chips is a real choke point. Apr 07 18:04:04 of course Apr 07 18:04:10 but mali's as bad situation as SGX i think Apr 07 18:04:19 yeah Apr 07 18:04:27 i understand and yet i do not understand why Apr 07 18:04:47 it is this idiocy that will ultimately give intel breathing room to push ahead. Apr 07 18:05:03 of course, now intel is putting SGX cores in their stuff too now Apr 07 18:05:07 :/ Apr 07 18:05:09 hm Apr 07 18:05:21 *facepalm* Apr 07 18:05:42 i mean, even in this configuration, I get about 12 hours of battery use out of this tablet Apr 07 18:05:53 as a simple orbiter Apr 07 18:05:55 that is fantastic Apr 07 18:06:15 and that's without pushing the cpu into suspend Apr 07 18:07:27 TSCHAKeee: wasn't the GMA500 the only chip they put the PowerVR in? Apr 07 18:07:44 i know that one for sure Apr 07 18:07:47 hm Apr 07 18:08:07 i liked the gma500 from a systems design standpoint Apr 07 18:08:29 but again..getting drivers required me to sell a pound of flesh Apr 07 18:39:02 The TSG meeting is in about 20 minutes: Wednesday 19:00 UTC in #meego-meeting, questions in #meego-meeting-questions. Agenda & other logistics: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings Apr 07 18:53:06 single signon the the forum software results in being slightly misleading. i did not know where the foum configuration options were. is there any mechanism to tie in the preferences too (or provide a link) Apr 07 18:53:36 (i wanted to change my forum sofware thread subscriptions and email on reply settings) Apr 07 18:53:48 found it in the end, but it wasnt where i expected it to be Apr 07 18:54:22 Well, at least you can use the same account. Apr 07 18:54:29 That is a good start. Apr 07 18:54:49 yes X-Fade of course, just highlighting one of the difficulties with principles Apr 07 19:09:34 join #meego-meeting-questions Apr 07 19:22:42 i'm wondering if it is a bit of a problem there's not many questions.. Apr 07 19:23:33 Stskeeps, how? Apr 07 19:23:33 There was very little to discuss, we are all waiting for an update blog post. Apr 07 19:24:01 tekojo_: worrying that things might be fizzing out :P Apr 07 19:24:12 since there's normally a lot of relevant or even non-relevant questions :) Apr 07 19:24:28 The documentation license seems like a done deal.... Apr 07 19:24:31 but i guess cruising altitude might also have been reached Apr 07 19:24:31 'big' holidays :) Apr 07 19:25:09 but isn't it just good to default to CC? Apr 07 19:25:09 Well it was about only 3 working days since the last meeting. Apr 07 19:25:33 true, true Apr 07 19:26:46 Maybe it is me, but I feel meetings like this are only useful when things are prepared ahead. If there is nothing prepared, skip it. Apr 07 19:26:52 Don't have a meeting to have a meeting. Apr 07 19:26:53 They should have canceled this meeting, then. So far it is pretty uninformative IMHO Apr 07 19:27:23 So far two WG proposals have been rejected based on the structure of the Meego projects etc., so there is no real point to propose anything until more information is known. Apr 07 19:27:37 oh right, the meeting Apr 07 19:27:40 this license thing is useless Apr 07 19:27:49 table the proposal and make it come back when it's more defined Apr 07 19:28:14 I'm no expert, but is including CC documentation in GPL software a good idea? Apr 07 19:28:29 The documentation license thingy might be important, currently all the input in wiki.meego.com is not licensed (so somebody could claim it). Apr 07 19:28:32 X-Fade: maybe maybe not.. but a TSG meeting ought not find out Apr 07 19:28:38 should have been done in the proposal Apr 07 19:28:41 arjan, +1 confusion requires clarification first Apr 07 19:28:46 arjan: That is why I said it needed preparation. Apr 07 19:28:54 pretty empty today huh? Apr 07 19:28:55 Not just, do you like the sound of it :) Apr 07 19:29:06 * GeneralAntilles expects contributors are still having trouble getting involved. Apr 07 19:29:17 the flames on the list are fun tho :0 Apr 07 19:29:23 Enthusiasm has been slowly fizzing away since the announcement. . . . Apr 07 19:29:25 why should it be different, after all, GeneralAntilles? Apr 07 19:29:27 random people pissing off other people ;) Apr 07 19:30:20 GeneralAntilles, only a shell, what do you expected :P Apr 07 19:30:35 GeneralAntilles: i mean, things haven't been different from google's android codedump so far, although, clearly, attempts are made to bring the community closer to the real development. Apr 07 19:31:02 I feel this thing needs to be decentralized as soon as possible so actual work can get started. Apr 07 19:31:20 Explain the projects concept and set them up. Apr 07 19:32:14 yep. Apr 07 19:32:24 Yep. Apr 07 19:33:38 th0br0, I feel a bit like roadblocks are being setup to non-Nokia/Intel contribution Apr 07 19:33:42 Whether intentional or not Apr 07 19:33:48 and whether they're only perceived or not Apr 07 19:33:57 It's a sentiment I've heard from a lot of people and I think it's hurting the project. Apr 07 19:34:14 oh i just loved percieved barriers Apr 07 19:34:16 point them out as people who work within the processes may be blind to them Apr 07 19:34:22 I think the story has not yet got upto speed.. Apr 07 19:34:24 whether or not they actually exist or not :P Apr 07 19:34:27 GeneralAntilles: rephrase please Apr 07 19:35:10 th0br0, it's feels like its tough for people not from Nokia or Intel to actually get input noticed or accepted. Apr 07 19:35:34 i second that. Apr 07 19:35:51 Lot of talk about openness, but it's yet to be matched with a whole lot of action. Apr 07 19:36:15 lol lcuk Apr 07 19:36:15 * TSCHAKeee facepalms Apr 07 19:36:16 lcuk, ohnoes! Buuuurn. Apr 07 19:36:26 yeap GeneralAntilles Apr 07 19:36:41 :) just an open discussion Apr 07 19:36:55 maybe I should post a patch to meego-dev Apr 07 19:37:03 like wow an actual contribution on the mailing list ;) Apr 07 19:37:07 * GeneralAntilles is off to errands. Apr 07 19:37:17 bye GeneralAntilles Apr 07 19:37:18 arjan, -developers sucks in Maemo, too. Apr 07 19:38:02 don't complain on not being able to contribute if you haven't even tried sending a patch ;) Apr 07 19:38:07 because it's used as a "development questions" ml Apr 07 19:38:13 Well, it seems 2 months too early for outside contributors. Hopefully it will get better when the bootstrapping phase is over. Apr 07 19:38:34 stuff really just started Apr 07 19:38:35 except people claimed day one was the thing we should wait for :/ Apr 07 19:38:49 i'm wondering where all this percieved negative sentiment is coming from Apr 07 19:38:50 Yes, but that is just too optimistic :) Apr 07 19:38:50 TSCHAKeee: "just" is 2 months ago Apr 07 19:39:20 * javispedro makes iPopcorn Apr 07 19:39:21 this is silly. Apr 07 19:39:28 has "tgis" actually "started" yet? Apr 07 19:39:44 arjan: Well, last time I asked about architecture discussions on the ML, I was told "go upstream"; so I assume that's where everyone is sending patches :-p Apr 07 19:40:48 arjan: on a sidenote, do you have any opinions on least-capabilities of devices? GLES2 and GL? Apr 07 19:41:08 gles2 is really the minimum Apr 07 19:41:12 opengl gives you more Apr 07 19:41:18 :nod: Apr 07 19:41:19 it also depends on the specific device Apr 07 19:41:24 wouldn't that depend on the ux used too Apr 07 19:41:25 ouch 13 devices, it reminds someone that I know :P Apr 07 19:41:28 netbook/slate/etc I expect a GL stack Apr 07 19:41:38 while on really small devices GLES2 might be more appropriate Apr 07 19:41:42 javispedro: but even for qt we'd need to say 'use gles2' Apr 07 19:42:14 small is beautifull in handsets -> GLES Apr 07 19:42:27 dunno Apr 07 19:42:41 the amoutn of visual things you do on a 3.5" handset screen is different than what you do on a 7" or 11" screen Apr 07 19:42:51 on a 3.5" screen you only do one app at a time etc Apr 07 19:42:54 for example Apr 07 19:43:09 I would also argue that on larger pad displays as well Apr 07 19:43:19 pads are interesting question Apr 07 19:43:23 apple scaled up their phone UI Apr 07 19:43:28 not sure if that is the right answer Apr 07 19:43:31 arjan: Yes and no. It is proportional to size too. Larger screened devices usually have a bit more powerful harware. Apr 07 19:43:40 X-Fade: yup.. Apr 07 19:43:55 it was partially right Apr 07 19:44:14 i do think something like Maemo's Fremantle or Harmattan UI on a large tablet would be a good start. Apr 07 19:44:34 arjan, I'm not a developer. :) Apr 07 19:44:43 TSCHAKeee: I'll put money on that there will be many of these, and each variation will be tried Apr 07 19:44:56 arjan, don't play the "you can only contrbute through code" game. :) Apr 07 19:45:10 TSCHAKeee: we'll see over time which answers will stick and which will suck Apr 07 19:45:21 arjan: i will be one of the one trying. One of the key aspects of my work with LinuxMCE is designing a universal UI to be used throughout an entire house. Apr 07 19:45:40 across many embedded devices Apr 07 19:45:40 GAN900: I'm not a code-ist ;) Apr 07 19:46:20 I wonder when the roles and nominations come in calendarwise. Apr 07 19:47:01 haataja: =) Apr 07 19:47:32 haataja: I am guessing within the next 2 weeks... Apr 07 19:48:23 th0br0: it is tough thing to set up, lot of "proprietary inheritance" in there. (at least on mindset) Apr 07 19:49:04 * RST38h loudly wonders why the amount of visual things matters Apr 07 19:49:26 patience would be a virtue.. Apr 07 19:49:27 Eyecandy does not make device more useful Apr 07 19:50:13 Jaffa: ta Apr 07 19:51:03 TSCHAKeee: jogglers arrived Apr 07 19:51:46 haataja: patience is present; however, given the roadmap (meego 1.0 release in 2 months) and our current condition, i don't know whether the community will have much influence on the first release Apr 07 19:51:47 Joggler fun. It's use as a pretty clock has become pretty limited :-) Apr 07 19:52:51 RST38h: sigh. but it does not mean it should not be attempted at all Apr 07 19:52:52 qgil might be about to get frustrated :-) Apr 07 19:52:58 this is why honestly, i can't stand stand the open source/free software people sometimes Apr 07 19:53:12 (and yes, I can comment on it, I've been in this world for almost two decades) Apr 07 19:53:24 TSCHAKeee: be more pragmatic! duh! ;) Apr 07 19:54:07 heh - I guess I missed the meeting Apr 07 19:54:14 th0br0: it took fedora, opensuse etc all a long time to really open up Apr 07 19:54:23 but really what influence do you want? Apr 07 19:54:24 Ah, the good old "you can't expect things to change overnight". I've heard that before somewhere ;-) Apr 07 19:54:36 TSHAKeee: It means eyecandy should not be attempted at the cost of usability Apr 07 19:54:37 Jaffa: so what do you really want? Apr 07 19:54:40 If we take 2 years to open up, this project is doomed. Apr 07 19:54:41 please be specific ;) Apr 07 19:54:47 (and may we remember Clutter here? =)) Apr 07 19:54:57 * Stskeeps had the impression day 1 was where things were supposed to 'switch' to open mode, as well Apr 07 19:55:02 arjan: Difficult to know without knowing what the decisions are ;-) Apr 07 19:55:09 because sending an email or bugzilla is a good way to get people influenced Apr 07 19:55:09 arjan, then don't say you need to contribute a patch before you can complain. ;) Apr 07 19:55:24 Jaffa: you've seen the current code Apr 07 19:55:30 is there anything you want different? Apr 07 19:55:36 arjan: Actually, based on the maemo.org experience, I can pretty much tell you exactly what *I* would want (can't say for Jaffa) Apr 07 19:55:42 RST38h: Go on Apr 07 19:55:48 please speak up Apr 07 19:56:01 what kind of change do you want in the os Apr 07 19:56:03 * Jaffa is trying to sort out build problems at work whilst trying to come up with a winning, simple, example ;-) Apr 07 19:56:03 GAN900, i expect regular patches from you if the documentation stored on the git repository needs updating or templates for the wiki or process notes for dealing with xyz need updating Apr 07 19:56:05 lets discuss it in the open ;) Apr 07 19:56:20 I'm not trying to be defensive here Apr 07 19:56:21 arjan: btw, meego-arch@ mailing list might be good, to seperate out from -dev Apr 07 19:56:30 but I am fishing for things that we can improve Apr 07 19:56:30 1. Mobile version of the OS running on actual easily available hardware (N900 would be nice, but any readily available stuff like HTC would do) Apr 07 19:56:45 arjan: well, i wasn't active back when fedora opened up... i might have used bad wording, i'm just talking about the fact that (at least from my pov) there is hardly anything constructive going on... i mean, there are 2 ppl who spread information once a week but not much else is really going on... at least, hardly anything public. i'm missing transparency and clear project structures; I find it hard to understand, that these are not present. Apr 07 19:56:47 i pretty much expected, even with meego..that there would be the value added stuff on top of the open stuff. Apr 07 19:56:50 Every week without #1 reduces the number of people interested in Meego Apr 07 19:57:32 RST38h: so we have n900 images Apr 07 19:57:33 2. Extras-like repository for MeeGo, but without the red tape that is asphyxiating Maemo5 Extras right now Apr 07 19:57:34 Novell guys? Apr 07 19:57:40 Something like Maemo4 Extras more or less Apr 07 19:57:42 I understand that the release was due to the congress, but the project was and still is sort of immature regarding organization etc... well,... Apr 07 19:57:49 arjan: Last meeting (or whichever it was you participated in) you said something like "we're still trying to work out how [that] will [work/fit together]". Something gstreamer based IIRC, regarding integration with the rest of MeeGo. Apr 07 19:58:01 arjan: the images you have show an xterm window. Apr 07 19:58:14 arjan: Who needs an OS that opens an xterm window and stays there? Apr 07 19:58:26 th0br0: couldn't agree more.. Apr 07 19:58:27 RST38h: extras will need always some legal review.. that's just the current reality in the world Apr 07 19:58:28 RST38h: lbt and i were told to discuss that on the ml further, but without much organization-wise info there isn't much we can do... alas, the last meeting was kinda rushed. Apr 07 19:58:32 (even debian does that in practice) Apr 07 19:58:51 3. Lively forum that caters to both Meego Developers and the current Maemo users Apr 07 19:58:53 arjan: Where's that conversation happening? It's not gstreamer specific, so it doesn't seem likely that it's going to be gstreamer-dev@gstreamer.org (or whatever). It's the kind of thing which that Stskeeps' suggestion of meego-arch@ would deal with. Apr 07 19:59:03 (should I explain why Maemo users are important here?) Apr 07 19:59:04 arjan: Debian has no formal legal review Apr 07 19:59:15 We just make sure we can assign copyright. Apr 07 19:59:26 nor does fedora actually; if the reviewer has legal doubts, he can tag the review request and fedora legal will take a look at it ... Apr 07 19:59:28 jeremiah: for 3rd party packages? there's a list of approved licenses etc Apr 07 19:59:30 4. The usual subsections of the site: Developer Documentation, News, Bugtracker Apr 07 19:59:38 th0br0: Yeah, same in Debian. Apr 07 19:59:40 arjan: that's not really legal review though... Apr 07 19:59:53 if we're enumerating what we want... i'm not interested in having "influence" over someone else's project... i require nothing more or less than the ability to make my own functionally equivalent fork Apr 07 20:00:01 arjan: There is the debian free software guidlines and a legal mailing list, that's it Apr 07 20:00:07 5. Let normal users (which you will get by implementing #1) participate in making Meego better Apr 07 20:00:15 * lcuk vanishes again \o Apr 07 20:00:17 arjan: I think I am done. Apr 07 20:00:22 ali1234: Building an N900 image based on Mer which boots to xterm should be pretty straight forward ;-) Apr 07 20:00:25 RST38h: =) i agree with you. Apr 07 20:00:33 RST38h, pink ponies ? no ? Apr 07 20:00:34 arjan: on a sidenote, the four of you are the 'official' meego top level architects? Apr 07 20:00:36 Jaffa: straight forward yes, functionally equivalent no Apr 07 20:00:36 :P Apr 07 20:00:38 Jaffa: Have I listed all the important points? Apr 07 20:00:46 VDVsx: Nah, you can save on the ponies =) Apr 07 20:00:53 :( Apr 07 20:01:13 VDVsx: Ok, I will take half the cash saved on the ponies. Apr 07 20:01:14 Stskeeps: yes, so ? Apr 07 20:01:16 It would be great if Imad or valhalla could actually get in here once and actively participate in discussion... so far, they've mostly just been around from meeting begin to meeting end ... Apr 07 20:01:26 RST38h: Long term ones, yeah. As th0br0 says, lbt's repo working group stuff was shot down/shelved pending "project structure" and/or CWG responsibility Apr 07 20:01:38 Jaffa: How familiar... Apr 07 20:02:14 evening thiago_home Apr 07 20:02:35 RST38h, agree with almost everything apart from n. 2, some moderation is needed if you're catering regular users Apr 07 20:02:37 Jaffa: the answer we were given wasn't too precise tbh... "# AGREED: the discussion will follow in meego-dev. This topic is considered important and there is not common understanding to decide now (qgil, 20:40:44)" Apr 07 20:02:55 VDVsx: Yes, but we have been discussion this one with javispedro today Apr 07 20:03:03 spoussa: was an extension on the discussion of a meego-arch mailing list - because many of the questions TSG is getting asked (technical) is actually closer to architecture questions. and my curiousity was how architect group will be working within the project Apr 07 20:03:13 VDVsx: I would actually prefer gradual limits on what new users can do to moderation Apr 07 20:03:25 VDVsx: that could be solved by doing sth like fedora's bodhi (packages need karma to be accepted into the official extras repository) Apr 07 20:03:28 th0br0: X-Fade's point about TSG meeting prep again being germane. Apr 07 20:03:32 w00t_: hey Apr 07 20:03:40 Jaffa: rephrase please. Apr 07 20:03:46 VDVsx: Moderators are human and thus tend to fall into unwanted behavioral patterns Apr 07 20:03:48 Stskeeps: I think the meego-arch mailing list proposal is not bad... Apr 07 20:03:53 Or rather, what do you mean? :) Apr 07 20:04:07 VDVsx: software can be tuned once and work the same forever Apr 07 20:04:11 RST38h, that's true, then you should complain :) Apr 07 20:04:20 are there transcribed minutes? Apr 07 20:04:36 yes Apr 07 20:04:39 ok Apr 07 20:04:40 VDVsx: You complain and get blown off. You whine then and start a war. Nobody wants THAT. Apr 07 20:04:46 TSCHAKeee: http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/ Apr 07 20:04:55 groovy Apr 07 20:04:55 TSCHAKeee: http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-04-07-18.58.html Apr 07 20:04:59 thanks :D Apr 07 20:05:21 VDVsx: Simply limiting new users to 3 comments a day (no new threads) and then raising this threshold with time will do 75% of the job. Moderators can take care of the rest Apr 07 20:05:40 isn't that more of a maemo topic? Apr 07 20:05:49 th0br0: X-Fade made the point that the TSG meetings seem like they've not had the necessary level of preparation; possibly from imad and valhalla. I think the Repo WG problems were a perfect example of that. No common understanding of what "garage" meant or what Extras was. Apr 07 20:05:55 Stskeeps: Applies to any forum, maemo or meego Apr 07 20:06:02 Jaffa: ah yeah, i do agree with that. Apr 07 20:06:11 i noticed sth similar back then... but ... :S Apr 07 20:06:20 Stskeeps: Meego forums will get exactly the same problem as soon as there are Meego devices sold to general populace Apr 07 20:06:27 * thiago_home likes "QUESTION: Imad, we found out you have an iphone earlier this week" Apr 07 20:06:39 lcuk, ++ :P Apr 07 20:06:40 if only those two guys would get in actualy contact with us :) no xenophobia please! Apr 07 20:06:41 thiago_home: heh Apr 07 20:06:56 thiago: "...can we interest you in switching to N900"? =) Apr 07 20:06:57 th0br0: Ain't gonna happen Apr 07 20:07:02 Yeah, but there is something to say for eating your own dogfood. Apr 07 20:07:03 jeremiah_: but why ...? Apr 07 20:07:07 RST38h: he did say he had an N900 Apr 07 20:07:08 th0br0: ideally TSG would be the last people we'd have to talk to, though Apr 07 20:07:14 th0br0: They have 'important' stuff to do Apr 07 20:07:17 So he should have sent that from pine from his MeeGo xterm :) Apr 07 20:07:18 thiago: Ah, but did he...eh...use? Apr 07 20:07:28 X-Fade: lol! Apr 07 20:07:31 lol Apr 07 20:07:31 :) Apr 07 20:07:32 Stskeeps: well, true. but how else is the community supposed to provide input if they aren't talking to us and available to us? Apr 07 20:07:35 but does ANYBODY know all about meego? Apr 07 20:07:39 X-Fade: You mean there is networking? Apr 07 20:07:46 th0br0: we should have exact people to contact, hence why the whole roles thing is a bit bad it is not figured out yet Apr 07 20:07:47 javispedro, no!!! Apr 07 20:07:48 javispedro: i don't think there is an "all", not yet... Apr 07 20:07:58 Stskeeps: yeah. and those ppl should be active on irc, too... Apr 07 20:08:14 th0br0: the problem is that besides quim and dawnfoster and TSG, noone's official yet Apr 07 20:08:19 * RST38h goes off to watch a movie Apr 07 20:08:20 Stskeeps: true. Apr 07 20:08:22 well, and the architects Apr 07 20:08:41 Stskeeps: and them http://wiki.meego.com/Whos_who Apr 07 20:08:43 eeh Apr 07 20:08:46 http://wiki.meego.com/Whos_who#MeeGo_developers Apr 07 20:08:58 we do run into those though Apr 07 20:08:59 However, as we all know, there is but one Architect =) Apr 07 20:09:01 "sent by mute from my MeeGo system" :P Apr 07 20:09:09 Stskeeps: yes, we do, but ... Apr 07 20:10:02 * thiago_home puts the TSG meeting on his N900 calendar Apr 07 20:10:06 I was away eating pizza Apr 07 20:10:32 thiago_home: That was actually a better way to spend your time. Apr 07 20:10:47 Indedd Apr 07 20:10:51 thiago_home: Missed nothing this time. Apr 07 20:10:51 Or indeed even Apr 07 20:10:52 And most importantly, as we can see now, there are tons and tons of questions the community has... the meeting was just 55min long... ... ... well, we'll see how it works out in the future. Apr 07 20:11:02 I am just giong to read the minutes from now on Apr 07 20:11:13 (ok, that was because the ppl weren't asking the questions but, most questions were answered rather shortly anyway) Apr 07 20:11:19 th0br0: Once there are WGs and projects, questions can be redirected. Apr 07 20:11:31 X-Fade: sure. but when will we have them? :S Apr 07 20:11:34 * javispedro ponders how both maemo and moblin came to life. Apr 07 20:11:43 th0br0: Don't ask me ;) Apr 07 20:11:44 well, there is hardly anything we can do right now except to exercise patience. Apr 07 20:11:54 X-Fade: we did find out that Imad has more devices than the iPhone his 4-year-old kid plays with :-) Apr 07 20:12:00 therefore, i'm going back to reading some more WoT (wheel of time)... so long. Apr 07 20:12:10 javispedro, i bet it starts with "twas a dark night in oulu..." Apr 07 20:12:11 thiago_home: Did we? What did you find out? Apr 07 20:12:17 jeremiah_: check the minutes Apr 07 20:12:24 under AOB Apr 07 20:12:38 lcuk: and "thou the lord said ' let there be light!' and the rants ended" Apr 07 20:13:17 thiago_home, and valhalla has 13 devices :D Apr 07 20:13:18 jeremiah_: that's only after he said "make light" and got error "make: Don't know how to make light. Stop." Apr 07 20:13:25 Ah, a Blackberry. :) Apr 07 20:13:53 i added a new desk last night and have more space for toys Apr 07 20:14:09 lcuk: W00t Apr 07 20:14:09 ive got my big MT monitor and my 810s are even back out :) Apr 07 20:14:24 I can't get my 810 away from my wife Apr 07 20:14:28 surprisingly the 810 screen is better to write on than the upright Apr 07 20:14:31 * thiago_home has an N800 Apr 07 20:14:39 and a collegue has an 770 on his desk Apr 07 20:14:58 i can just reach out and touch apps Apr 07 20:15:03 <@valhalla_> 13 PC:s, Droid, Nexus, 3 N900:s, E71 Apr 07 20:15:11 ^^ pretty impressive Apr 07 20:15:14 im gonna have em running communal apps Apr 07 20:15:20 For a managerial type :) Apr 07 20:15:50 well, the question is whether it's the us or eu nexus version Apr 07 20:15:53 i wonder how he knows 13 Apr 07 20:15:55 eeh droid, not nexus Apr 07 20:15:57 jeremiah_: there was a while back last year when high-ups in Nokia had N900s (still branded N00) before we developers could get them... Apr 07 20:15:58 its a mental calculation Apr 07 20:16:25 "3 in my office, 2 in the bedroom, one downstairs, 3 more in the library, oh and 1 in the bathroom" Apr 07 20:16:27 thiago_home: Really? Cool Apr 07 20:16:43 Wonder what they have now Apr 07 20:16:44 at least this time they sent some prototypes to us Apr 07 20:17:02 * thiago_home has a couple of N900++ in his office, so he has to lock the door every time he leaves Apr 07 20:17:09 N900++? Apr 07 20:17:22 lcuk: he lied. he only counted those he takes with him, but didn't count the 5000 he has downstairs! Apr 07 20:17:25 no, don't answer, i guess that's under nda anyway. Apr 07 20:17:34 I have no clue what the official branding will be Apr 07 20:17:38 thiago_home: Send them to me. I look after them. Apr 07 20:17:39 k Apr 07 20:17:43 thiago_home: N900++? Apr 07 20:17:44 and I can't tell you anything about it, besides what is already public Apr 07 20:17:47 what be that beast? Apr 07 20:17:49 thats possibly >nda by the sounds of it Apr 07 20:17:50 capacitive, multitouch Apr 07 20:18:04 * javispedro grabs the popcorn again Apr 07 20:18:09 OMAP3430, eMMC, NAND Apr 07 20:18:10 heh Apr 07 20:18:14 Jari mentioned it was going to have a capacitive screen at the summit Apr 07 20:18:22 lcuk: yeah, we had to get someone to *bring* it from Finland Apr 07 20:18:33 yeah, I'm just a parrot now Apr 07 20:18:37 I repeat what others have said Apr 07 20:18:40 * Jaffa really struggles to not use his finger nail on the capacitive Joggler. I'm hardwired for it. Apr 07 20:18:48 lol jaffa Apr 07 20:18:57 i use the side of my finger - the hard skin next to nail Apr 07 20:19:03 works same on n900 as on iphone Apr 07 20:19:07 lcuk: Sexy Apr 07 20:19:12 meh Apr 07 20:19:17 thiago_home, :) Apr 07 20:19:21 gotta use gammy figner for something Apr 07 20:19:26 lol Apr 07 20:19:41 I don't want to know how it got gammy Apr 07 20:19:55 nokia did it Apr 07 20:20:03 he speaks the truth Apr 07 20:20:05 finger friendly Apr 07 20:20:06 :P Apr 07 20:20:13 lcuk has the first capacitive screen friendly finger in the world! Apr 07 20:20:20 all hail Nokia! Apr 07 20:20:48 :D Apr 07 20:21:10 http://slashdot.org/journal/229097/Nokia-ovi---finger-friendly Apr 07 20:21:40 * javispedro wonders if they sell that "finger friendlyrizer machine" to us poor resistive screen users Apr 07 20:21:45 s/they/they'd Apr 07 20:21:55 lcuk, that door much be avoided :D Apr 07 20:22:13 * lcuk prefers using the fob Apr 07 20:22:32 * X-Fade looked at the door and really wondered what lcuk was thinking ;) Apr 07 20:22:50 X-Fade, i have photos now and explain it properly Apr 07 20:22:52 X-Fade, same here :) Apr 07 20:23:07 lcuk at least you were an instant legend ;) Apr 07 20:23:21 :D Apr 07 20:24:44 fact: on Finland, ALWAYS wear gloves Apr 07 20:24:57 javispedro, interesting Apr 07 20:25:01 ;P Apr 07 20:25:11 javispedro: Let others open the door for you ;) Apr 07 20:25:30 X-Fade ++ Apr 07 20:25:54 do imad and valhalla have twitter accounts? Apr 07 20:35:45 is there any way to get things like mesa-libGL-IEGD that was in moblin 2.1 IVI btw? the 'accept' link doesn't work anymore Apr 07 20:41:06 * TSCHAKeee has yet to SEE an IVI board. :/ Apr 07 20:41:41 TSCHAKeee: Congatech Apr 07 20:41:47 they make one Apr 07 20:42:10 And IVI just means "In Vehicle Infotainment" so they are not very special boards Apr 07 20:42:19 yeah, i've been trying to get one. :/ Apr 07 20:42:31 They sometimes have support for CAN and MOST but other than that they are regular ATOM, or similar Apr 07 20:43:26 Well, GENIVI, the automotive IVI consortium is going to have two reference platforms Apr 07 20:43:37 And one of them might be the beagle board Apr 07 20:43:50 So if you can get ahold of one of those, you're on your way. Apr 07 20:44:02 They're actually hard to find all of a sudden Apr 07 20:44:10 I found tracking mail list and irc is really hard for people like me who need to write code for living most of the day :-( Now forum comes ... Apr 07 20:44:11 digikey was out Apr 07 20:44:24 yeah, i was about to get a beagleboard Apr 07 20:44:43 i just wish they had a built on controller for touch displays Apr 07 20:44:44 TSCHAKeee: I think it is a good investment, they're about 150 US $ Apr 07 20:45:15 * TSCHAKeee also has some Fenglisu FriendlyARM boards (all S3C2440 based) Apr 07 20:45:16 I hope the next revision of the beagleboard comes with ethernet integrated Apr 07 20:45:37 Me too, but I think it won't to keep the price down. :/ Apr 07 20:45:56 i want moorestown hardware!!! :P :) Apr 07 20:46:06 atom bleh :P Apr 07 20:46:47 oh okay, i guess i'll use a Telechips 8902 based SoC board with its wonderful Mali200 3D accellerator for graphics... Apr 07 20:46:51 ...wait... Apr 07 20:46:53 ...damn... :P Apr 07 21:00:22 Wee, useless meeting. Apr 07 21:12:39 what, has it just ended now? Apr 07 21:12:59 :) Apr 07 21:15:09 DawnFoster: btw, i think it would be good to publish the url of the minutes to mailing list and/or forum so people who cannot participate get notified Apr 07 21:15:32 Stskeeps++ Apr 07 21:15:53 (presumably also put it visibly, on the topic, while on a meeting) Apr 07 21:16:01 stskeeps good idea - can I start with the next one? This was a little chaotic :) Apr 07 21:16:04 I'm kidding Apr 07 21:16:08 we'll post it Apr 07 21:17:10 sounds good :) Apr 07 21:17:13 btw, you can always find the minutes by visiting the tsg page: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings Apr 07 21:17:29 but it doesn't notify you, which is stskeeps point Apr 07 21:17:45 yeah - except it refers to the generic log url, which intermixes with all meetings held Apr 07 21:18:10 we're working on a better page for that - just haven't finished it Apr 07 21:18:28 :nod: just suggestions not criticism :) Apr 07 21:18:31 bbl sleep Apr 07 21:18:46 it's an excellent suggestion :) Apr 07 21:20:16 actually, we could build a page on the wiki for TSG Meeting Minutes, instead of the main drupal site. Apr 07 21:20:24 anyone want to have a go at it? Apr 07 21:37:22 when i boot meego on my asus 1000ha, it drops me to terminal, how can i get it to load the GUI? Apr 07 21:37:50 what GUI? Apr 07 21:39:23 well, it looked like it was loading a window manager Apr 07 21:39:30 does it not have one? Apr 07 21:39:32 it did, twm Apr 07 21:39:54 this is an early developer release Apr 07 21:39:56 there is no GUI Apr 07 21:40:10 there's just an xterm, for you to run whichever commands and further programs you mway want to Apr 07 21:40:20 oh ok, i was just wanting to check it out, was looking at some of the GSoC applications Apr 07 21:40:45 and one was integrating Ubuntu One/Dropbox into MeeGo Apr 07 21:40:58 that may be enough for you already Apr 07 21:41:31 the project mentioned gnome integration Apr 07 21:41:38 so i wasnt sure Apr 07 21:41:46 MeeGo doesn't have GNOME (or KDE) Apr 07 21:41:57 it contains some projects that started in GNOME, though Apr 07 21:42:17 yeah Apr 07 21:42:18 gnome and kde aren't the main focus of meego Apr 07 21:42:34 i wasnt sure what the goal of this project would be Apr 07 21:42:46 not desktop, that's for sure Apr 07 21:43:07 excid3: yes, don't treat this as a desktop. it isn't. not gonna be. Apr 07 21:43:52 ok, so...would you guys have any idea on what they are looking for if the project would be to integrate dropbox/ubuntu one into meego? I'm kind of lost now Apr 07 21:45:26 DawnFoster, something like: http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting Apr 07 21:46:28 GeneralAntilles, yeah something like that would work. Apr 07 21:46:42 and hopefully have them hosted on meego.com Apr 07 21:46:45 So where's the forum/email integration then? Apr 07 21:46:48 Going offsite for logs is a bit strange. Apr 07 21:46:56 lbt, presumably it's being worked on. Apr 07 21:47:08 yeah - we want to pull those onto meego.com Apr 07 21:47:13 lbt, although from the sounds of things it's actually, "Kill the mailing list, use the forums." Apr 07 21:47:25 and not have them externally hosted. Apr 07 21:47:31 GeneralAntilles: yeah - I heard that Apr 07 21:47:56 we need to figure out the email integration if that's going to work. Apr 07 21:48:00 DawnFoster: can you confirm that you won't move to the forums until it's "inclusive" Apr 07 21:48:05 and it's only for the community forum Apr 07 21:48:18 not core dev / SDK - those stay as mailing lists. Apr 07 21:48:21 yeah, we developers are part of the community too Apr 07 21:48:34 those of us who hack into the night Apr 07 21:48:36 our marketing people has wanted to move us to forums instead of MLs for years Apr 07 21:48:50 really don't like being told we're being ignored Apr 07 21:48:52 the main developer stuff stays as mailing lists Apr 07 21:48:52 they don't understand how useful/easy MLs are for people with good MUAs Apr 07 21:49:23 We *want* to interact with users Apr 07 21:49:26 we need to Apr 07 21:49:36 users aren't comfortable with mailing lists Apr 07 21:49:49 you won't get solid user participation on mailing lists Apr 07 21:49:53 I'm not saying move them to forums Apr 07 21:50:06 I'm saying that a forum post generates a mailing list post Apr 07 21:50:08 which is why we need to get mail integration figured out Apr 07 21:50:12 and vice-versa Apr 07 21:50:14 yes Apr 07 21:50:18 DawnFoster: it's also hard to get developers to participate in forums :) Apr 07 21:50:21 I know Apr 07 21:50:23 but somehow it's not high priority Apr 07 21:50:26 and that's bad Apr 07 21:50:47 we *HAVE* to make it high priority (for the forum mgmt) Apr 07 21:50:52 we're trying to get this figured out Apr 07 21:50:56 DawnFoster, have you seen maemo-users? :P Apr 07 21:51:07 productive suggestions for how to fix it will be the most help right now Apr 07 21:51:17 use what works on t.m.o Apr 07 21:51:31 DawnFoster: you have read the forum wiki page ;) Apr 07 21:52:17 We're trying to get everything to work together - SSO, forums, Drupal, etc. You guys know this ins't a trivial task. Apr 07 21:52:53 I'd think that "allow everyone to talk together" is more important than many other features, colour schemes etc Apr 07 21:53:42 ah yes, DawnFoster : http://wiki.meego.com/Forum_/_Talk Apr 07 21:53:49 see the second line in the table Apr 07 21:54:02 link to : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=28924 Apr 07 21:54:24 which is the implementation I had hoped for on "day zero" Apr 07 21:55:12 DawnFoster: well, you asked for productive suggestions ;) Apr 07 21:56:21 thank you - but they will get lost in IRC, and I don't do the forum config, Reggie does. Apr 07 21:57:00 I suggest talking to Reggie about it Apr 07 21:57:07 DawnFoster: it's on the wiki page... Apr 07 21:57:15 I don't see how it can get lost Apr 07 21:57:25 not heeded.... yes Apr 07 21:57:31 I still recommend talking to Reggie Apr 07 21:57:57 OK Apr 07 22:03:38 hello Apr 07 22:12:49 hello bef0rd Apr 07 22:17:35 Jaffa: ping.... I've had enough of this lack of attention on the forum/email thing... Apr 07 22:17:49 lbt: Indeed. Just saw your email. Apr 07 22:18:18 * Jaffa thinks he has a problem with his email system though: ones I send never get read; otherwise *surely* the people would reply? Apr 07 22:18:19 Bat signal! Apr 07 22:18:29 Jaffa, ehehe Apr 07 22:19:07 I was just creating a meego vmware image, but it doesn't seems to boot :/ Apr 07 22:39:23 night all Apr 07 22:46:31 <_Sky_> bef0rd: try to replacing the kernel http://www.sundtek.de/meego/index.txt Apr 07 22:47:47 <_Sky_> it's an ubuntu kernel but i ported also the correct kernel to x86 , but i'm still waiting for CosmoHill to upload it Apr 07 22:49:11 * arjan wonders why one would want the ubuntu kernel on meego Apr 07 22:49:20 is there something wrong with the meego kernel ? Apr 07 22:51:28 it's not overclocked enough >:) Apr 07 22:52:57 * thiago_home used to build his own kernel just because he could Apr 07 22:53:02 that was in the 90s, though Apr 07 22:53:15 for a while I used to build my own kernels as well Apr 07 22:53:23 but that was because my kernel was the RHL/Fedora kernel ;-) Apr 07 22:53:45 small difference :-P Apr 08 00:16:46 hello Apr 08 02:10:34 is there a version of mer that would run okay on a SmartQ ? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 08 02:59:56 2010