**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 18 02:59:57 2010 Apr 18 04:54:23 hey hey **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Apr 18 07:53:18 2010 Apr 18 08:56:58 heya Apr 18 08:57:32 morning th0br0 Apr 18 08:57:59 :) Apr 18 10:45:11 * lbt tries another "osc build mic2-image.kiwi" Apr 18 11:08:26 :) lbt Apr 18 11:08:52 * Stskeeps continues hacking his joggler with meego Apr 18 11:09:32 is the netbook UI ready? Apr 18 11:10:03 no idea Apr 18 11:11:19 i'd like to give it a try Apr 18 11:11:46 i'd like to try out handset UX personally Apr 18 11:11:48 on my joggler Apr 18 11:17:22 if it's not been released, it's not ready Apr 18 11:17:28 that is not to say that it will be ready when it is released Apr 18 11:18:38 thiago_home: ah. "Available when ready".... that's the kind of habit we need to break Apr 18 11:18:51 that's exactly what I said Apr 18 11:19:24 out is a necessary condition for being ready Apr 18 11:19:28 it's not a sufficient condition Apr 18 11:20:20 ready is a sufficient condition for being out. It's not a required condition. Apr 18 11:20:45 the problem is that Meego is treating "ready" as being required for "out" Apr 18 11:20:55 which != open enough Apr 18 11:22:06 yes, ready is a sufficient condition for being out Apr 18 11:22:12 but it can be out before it's ready Apr 18 11:22:16 and well it should Apr 18 11:22:41 I think you guys are playing on words here, I'm pretty sure dgegne was implying ready as in available to use, not ready as in good usability Apr 18 11:23:16 yes Apr 18 11:23:23 and I pointed out that, if it's not even out yet, it's not ready Apr 18 11:25:53 I didn't say you weren't making a valid point :P I just meant that I think that you may confuse someone that doesn't know what your talking about if you expand their question into another one, without giving them a clear answer first. Apr 18 11:26:14 I guess his beef is that if MeeGo is supposed to be open development, but things still mostly get created inside hidden repositories or on harddrives somewhere, and only appear in big chunks to MeeGo when "ready", as if each commit into MeeGo was a release of the software in question, that such a model doesn't meet his expetations of what open dev means :) Apr 18 11:28:15 ShadowJK: :P again, I'm not saying he didn't have a valid point, I'm just saying that someones question was expanded past the scope of the question, and someone could get confused if you don't offer them a clear answer to their question before doing that. Apr 18 11:28:15 * thiago_home agrees Apr 18 11:28:15 There certainly are projects where developers work on a feature entirely on a local repo on his PC until it's functional, and then commit it as a huge blob. Sometimes with the dev history, sometimes not Apr 18 11:31:56 thiago_home they showed netbook UI at IDF Apr 18 11:32:14 so there's something ready Apr 18 11:32:38 demos != ready Apr 18 11:32:39 :P Apr 18 11:33:10 dgegne: I didn't know that Apr 18 11:33:14 but yeah, it's a bit of a bad situation when a project's supposed to be open, except now hardware vendors is showing it off, instead of everyone having the ability.. Apr 18 11:33:35 you know what the problem is, right? Apr 18 11:33:47 if you start releasing code that is not good enough, the press will kill us Apr 18 11:33:52 that too Apr 18 11:33:53 thiago_home: you know about sparc computers right? Apr 18 11:33:59 CosmoHill: somewhat, yes Apr 18 11:34:09 CosmoHill: I have access to one 16-CPU UltraSparc and one with 24 Apr 18 11:34:25 I'm looking at getting a SunFire V240 for about $192 USB Apr 18 11:34:28 *USD Apr 18 11:34:34 thiago_home: except in a open project, these risks have to be taken - nokia will base on a stable meego release anyway most likely Apr 18 11:34:37 not the intermediate Apr 18 11:35:24 thiago_home, I think you need to readjust the standards by habitually comtting uncompilable code on friday afternoons, fixing it next thursday evening but breaking the build system, fixing build system again shortly after comitting uncompilable code again on friday. Apr 18 11:35:49 ShadowJK: BAU Apr 18 11:36:26 thiago_home: does that sound like a good price? Apr 18 11:36:54 CosmoHill: that's shipping. How much is it to upgrade your house elecy supply? Apr 18 11:37:03 You can have my Sparcstation5 and Netra for free if you pay shipping ;p Apr 18 11:37:06 lbt: it uses kettle leads Apr 18 11:37:20 and that price includes shipping Apr 18 11:38:28 ShadowJK: sounds like Qt development Apr 18 11:38:37 ShadowJK: all 8 staging branches were broken on Friday afternoon Apr 18 11:38:51 CosmoHill: I have no idea about prices, sorry Apr 18 11:39:06 that's okay Apr 18 11:39:25 I'm just thinking, my 500Mhz Sublade 100 was £50 Apr 18 11:39:54 for a little over double the price I'm getting two 1.2Ghz processors and a load of RAM + HDD space Apr 18 11:40:04 (yes I realise I'm basically talking myself into a buy) Apr 18 11:42:00 I have to ask: why? Apr 18 11:42:00 * ShadowJK switched from buying sparc crap to buying arm crap Apr 18 11:42:07 takes up less space Apr 18 11:42:27 thiago_home, sssshhh, the guy's in love Apr 18 11:43:09 cos my subblade 100 takes a week to do a CLFS build Apr 18 11:43:20 32 general-purpose registers, 24 of which rotate Apr 18 11:43:27 but they rotate in 16 increments Apr 18 11:44:48 I've just seen a military helicopter fly over :o Apr 18 11:45:04 flights allowed? Apr 18 11:45:09 airspace is still closed here Apr 18 11:45:20 * thiago_home is somewhat glad he didn't go to LCS Apr 18 11:45:43 thiago_home, i think i commented on a qt bug from 2004 Apr 18 11:45:49 accidentally Apr 18 11:45:52 :D Apr 18 11:46:04 thiago_home: nope, still closed Apr 18 11:46:08 lcuk: I thought we had closed all of those :-) Apr 18 11:46:18 you did, but i commented anyway Apr 18 11:46:26 with a big block of info Apr 18 11:46:27 it took my a moment to go "wait,uk airspace is closed so what are you doing in the sky?" Apr 18 11:46:32 i wanted a qt native method of doing something Apr 18 11:46:43 and the only way i could do it was to make OS specific callouts Apr 18 11:46:47 doing what? Apr 18 11:46:55 multicast networking Apr 18 11:47:04 ah, right Apr 18 11:47:07 QTBUG-9 or 11 Apr 18 11:47:25 you have me to thank for it being imported in the first place into JIRA Apr 18 11:47:30 http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-7 Apr 18 11:47:36 of course Apr 18 11:47:36 it's not very hard to do it Apr 18 11:47:43 just a couple of extra functions in QUdpSocket Apr 18 11:47:44 and some of the google results i found led to there Apr 18 11:47:48 and thats a dead end \@/ Apr 18 11:47:57 of course its not hard Apr 18 11:48:07 i posted a load of places where people have answered it for various OSes Apr 18 11:48:19 some even from qt faq and stuff Apr 18 11:48:39 like I said, not hard Apr 18 11:48:49 it's basically adding the methods to add and remove group memberships Apr 18 11:48:53 but as it stands i cannot use pyqt or pyside to do native qt cross platform multicast Apr 18 11:48:57 plus setting a couple of options Apr 18 11:49:08 the issue is that UDP behaves differently on each OS Apr 18 11:49:10 i could easy step outside the walled garden Apr 18 11:49:15 but then it will break elsewhere Apr 18 11:49:26 we have an open issue on Solaris that the "reuse socket" flag works the opposite of what it's supposed to Apr 18 11:49:40 * lcuk nods Apr 18 11:49:49 you can get the socketDescriptor from the QUdpSocket and add your membership Apr 18 11:50:17 and then when i run that code on windows or something it will fail Apr 18 11:50:23 then you continue using the sendDatagram and receiveDatagram functions Apr 18 11:50:34 yeah Apr 18 11:50:38 unless i put heavy defines in (can you use ifdef in python?) Apr 18 12:30:45 thiago_home: http://forums.kustompcs.co.uk/album.php?albumid=8&pictureid=114 :) Apr 18 12:31:43 :) Apr 18 12:31:52 our Sparc are running Solaris though Apr 18 12:32:25 solaris doesn't like my sunblade Apr 18 12:32:43 "your kernel"? Apr 18 12:33:00 for a start the sunblade gives an error about the IPROM checksum being weird and I have to boot it via keyboard / serial Apr 18 12:33:11 I built a custom linux kernel Apr 18 12:33:18 the rest of the system is ubuntu Apr 18 12:33:30 kk Apr 18 12:33:44 "audio assignment" _> ? Apr 18 12:34:04 "Introduction to sound" is a module I had to do in my first year Apr 18 12:34:15 ah ok Apr 18 12:34:19 what are you studying? Apr 18 12:34:23 I basically chose the wrong story todo and got a C Apr 18 12:34:31 Computer Science / Computing Apr 18 12:35:08 :) that subject sucks here in germany kinda, mostly theoretical if studying at some university. Apr 18 12:36:09 if you graduate, you'll rather have some administrative role, no real programming, but are well paid... Apr 18 12:36:14 as it turns out I'm actually doing computing Apr 18 12:36:19 :) Apr 18 12:41:39 which involes a lot more pratical things Apr 18 12:41:51 tbh i got out of bed 2 hours ago with the intention of working on my C++ assignment Apr 18 12:43:11 CosmoHill: thanks for reminding about those :S Apr 18 12:43:28 I have 4 and will be panicing soon Apr 18 12:43:59 When is the deadline? Tomorrow? Apr 18 12:44:12 3 and a bit weeks Apr 18 12:44:28 Huh, they must be large assignments then Apr 18 12:44:55 they were set in late feb / early march Apr 18 12:45:03 plus I have todo the right up for them all Apr 18 12:45:20 GAN900: http://forums.kustompcs.co.uk/album.php?albumid=8&pictureid=220 Apr 18 12:45:22 "What is a protected abstract virtual base pure virtual private destructor ?" Apr 18 12:45:35 * CosmoHill explodes Apr 18 12:46:04 That is someone using Bjarne Stroustrup's book for smoking rather than reading Apr 18 12:46:10 protected means that you can't access it directly but it can be inherited Apr 18 12:46:26 virtual means that you need to implement it later in the child class Apr 18 12:46:36 there are two "virtual" in the sentence Apr 18 12:46:50 both of them are qualified Apr 18 12:46:52 Cosmo: Actually, no. Apr 18 12:47:00 Cosmo: That would be "pure" Apr 18 12:47:27 But, to simplify things, any time you see something like that, RUN. Apr 18 12:47:32 pure virtual, which is one of the two qualifications Apr 18 12:47:32 a destructor is something that is ran when the object goes out of scope Apr 18 12:47:42 ok, so destructor Apr 18 12:47:47 what's a private destructor? Apr 18 12:47:56 A destructor that is private? Apr 18 12:48:04 what's a pure virtual private destructor? Apr 18 12:48:10 something you do away from the pubic? Apr 18 12:48:19 bad programming? Apr 18 12:48:29 if it's private can't inherit it Apr 18 12:48:46 but it's also pure virtual which means you must implement it in the inherited class Apr 18 12:48:51 you forgot "C++, where your friends can see your privates" Apr 18 12:49:10 I have never heard that before but I am glad I have my legs crossed Apr 18 12:49:22 anyway, yeah Apr 18 12:49:26 now what's a virtual base? Apr 18 12:49:56 a base datatype? Apr 18 12:50:10 yes, it's a base. What's a virtual base? Apr 18 12:50:35 is it a custom datatype that you will implement later Apr 18 12:50:38 like a class Apr 18 12:50:48 no Apr 18 12:51:03 thiago: May I ask about the reason for your inquiry? =) Apr 18 12:51:10 just making fun Apr 18 12:51:19 * CosmoHill thinks he's doing well Apr 18 12:51:26 that question about "protected abstract virtual base pure virtual private destructor" is well-known Apr 18 12:51:34 virtual base -> template ? Apr 18 12:51:51 class B: virtual public A {}; Apr 18 12:51:52 (I mean, are you really unfortunate enough to deal with the fallout from some "C++ hacker" employment or is it somethign you are going to introduce yourself?] Apr 18 12:51:54 A is a virtual base of B Apr 18 12:52:44 I think I've missed placed one of my keyboards Apr 18 12:52:56 oh no i found it Apr 18 12:53:06 yeah, i saw the solution.. .crazy... Apr 18 12:54:11 I have to load data from a file into my program Apr 18 12:54:22 I'd like to use XML but i duno where to start Apr 18 12:54:36 tinyxml is your friend Apr 18 12:54:43 is there a standard c++ library that i could use or would I be looking at something l iike boost Apr 18 12:54:46 you need a base node ofc. to facilitate stuff. Apr 18 12:54:53 tinyxml++ likely. Apr 18 12:55:16 there's the Standard Template Library Apr 18 12:55:22 not for xml tho Apr 18 12:55:29 that's the only thing they'll allow you to use in classes, though Apr 18 12:55:57 I have other things todo before I get there so I'll ask Apr 18 12:56:08 write an xml parser yourself... Apr 18 12:56:21 that sounds kinda big Apr 18 12:56:24 well... Apr 18 12:56:26 2 classes? Apr 18 12:56:44 i meant in terms of work Apr 18 12:56:57 mmh... it's mostly recrusively parsing everything... Apr 18 12:58:20 a map for every node's parameters and a list for all the subnodes Apr 18 12:58:38 ofc, reading stuff out of that might be difficult ;) Apr 18 12:58:52 depends on how deep you recurse / xml structure. Apr 18 12:58:57 imho Apr 18 12:59:05 CosmoHill: We ended up writing a tiny xml parser Apr 18 12:59:18 that's loading the entire XML into memory Apr 18 12:59:20 Only handles a subset of XML, but that is sufficient for reading config Apr 18 12:59:38 thiago_home: well, yeah, in case that he wants to save the xml later on. Apr 18 12:59:51 on mo Apr 18 13:00:17 that's not the point... Apr 18 13:00:26 the point is that the XML file could be big Apr 18 13:00:38 excluding main, I have 8 classes Apr 18 13:01:20 thiago_home: unlikely for a config file though, but you're right Apr 18 13:01:24 what are you writing, CosmoHill? Apr 18 13:01:49 I'd stream-parse the file and store the data in my own config structure Apr 18 13:02:05 if you need to save, re-generate the XML from the config Apr 18 13:02:17 a text based RPG game with linked lists Apr 18 13:02:41 what do you need the linked lists for? Apr 18 13:02:59 linked lists for the win :D Apr 18 13:03:08 mapClass has a linked list of locationClass Apr 18 13:03:10 i think maps would be easier but ;) Apr 18 13:03:24 nvm that, maps aren't that different actually... Apr 18 13:03:27 locationClass has a linked list of items and people Apr 18 13:03:40 are you using polymorphism? Apr 18 13:03:45 plus it's a requirment Apr 18 13:03:59 you are required to separate between items and people? Apr 18 13:04:00 I'm probably not but remind me what that word means again Apr 18 13:04:14 inheritance... Apr 18 13:04:24 you have a basic class Actor which both, Items and People, share. Apr 18 13:04:28 May I suggest using dynamic arrays rather than linked lists? Apr 18 13:04:32 we have a characterclass that is inherited into player and nonplayer Apr 18 13:04:45 do you have a basic actor class? :) Apr 18 13:05:00 RST38h: probably not, it is a requirement that I used a linked list Apr 18 13:05:01 dynamic arrays need reallocating and copying for extending dont they? Apr 18 13:05:09 th0br0: that is character class Apr 18 13:05:11 linked lists win Apr 18 13:05:16 Whose requirement? =) Apr 18 13:05:19 CosmoHill: do the items use that too? Apr 18 13:05:23 my lecturer's Apr 18 13:05:45 hold on a mo, I'll draw a diagram Apr 18 13:05:50 lcuk: Cause all kinds of malloc bottlenecks and give you a plenty of opportunity to leak memory, if you are careless Apr 18 13:06:07 can everyone see blue? Apr 18 13:06:28 lcuk: A secret weapon against them is a dynamic array that never shrinks its storage, just grows Apr 18 13:06:32 RST38h, same with anything Apr 18 13:06:38 if malloc fails you are pretty much screwed Apr 18 13:06:47 lcuk: malloc does not "fail" Apr 18 13:06:56 sure it does Apr 18 13:06:57 RST38h: you'd normally iterate through the vector though (for drawing, collision checks, etc.) so why would a vector be more useful here? Apr 18 13:06:59 lcuk: it is just way to slow for fast repeated allocation Apr 18 13:07:13 to be expected, CosmoHill Apr 18 13:07:33 cache hits Apr 18 13:07:41 th0br0: query-wise, array and linked lists are pretty much the same, except that arrays give you better data locality Apr 18 13:08:02 mh, so a small speed-boost Apr 18 13:08:06 th0br0: deletion-wise, arrays are bitches of course, but in a lot of cases you never delete or do it rarely Apr 18 13:08:14 true. Apr 18 13:08:31 th0br0: *or* can express your list as a stack or a queue (deletion from these is easy) Apr 18 13:08:41 do you hold the array contents byval or byref Apr 18 13:08:56 but if he's writing a rpg, he might have to remove entries when, e.g. an item is picked up or an actor dies Apr 18 13:08:58 th0br0: Now, addition to the end of the list or array is the same, except that for a list you always have to malloc Apr 18 13:09:19 linked lists allow self walking and knowing neighbour relations from the object itself Apr 18 13:09:31 you cannot make that assumption with an array Apr 18 13:09:32 th0br0: Yes, but he wont be deleting hundreds of items from the lists of thousands every second Apr 18 13:09:33 lcuk: wouldn't byref be faster? Apr 18 13:09:36 true RST38h :) Apr 18 13:09:52 byref linked lists still have fragmentation Apr 18 13:09:59 and the objects know nothing about their neighbours Apr 18 13:10:23 th0br0: Important thing array gives you is control over memory allocation. You allocate at one spot, in a very controlled way Apr 18 13:10:25 removing an item from the middle of an array is a ballache Apr 18 13:10:45 malloc works on similar slabs already RST38h Apr 18 13:11:02 th0br0: So, if you can get away with defficiencies (and in many cases you can), then arrays are a way to go Apr 18 13:11:26 mh Apr 18 13:11:34 For other cases, there are lists (in which case you should allocate in Add() and free in Delete() and nowhere else) Apr 18 13:12:00 lcuk: The problem is, you do not know how malloc() works Apr 18 13:12:17 lcuk: I suggest you try figuring out how Windows malloc() works, for an eyeopening experience Apr 18 13:12:29 wheres the code? Apr 18 13:12:32 lcuk: Starting with AllocMem() and below Apr 18 13:12:34 * CosmoHill glares at the 2" gap between his laptop and cable Apr 18 13:12:44 lcuk: Why? In Windows of course! NTDLL Apr 18 13:12:52 What's so bad about window's malloc? Apr 18 13:13:03 lcuk: start up ollydbg or ida and start reading ntdll ;) Apr 18 13:13:12 th0br0: Takes enormous, uncontrollable amounts of time Apr 18 13:13:39 and linux's doesn't? Apr 18 13:13:44 does c++ object creation directly use malloc then? Apr 18 13:13:45 th0br0: Unix malloc is not perfect either of course, but it is quick by comparison Apr 18 13:13:49 ok Apr 18 13:13:55 lcuk: new does Apr 18 13:13:56 or does it have its own intermediate slab allocator Apr 18 13:14:04 lcuk: Depends on implementation Apr 18 13:14:17 lcuk: But there is no "ideal" malloc implementation, slab or no slab Apr 18 13:14:28 in our benchmarks, the linux malloc is much better than mac or windows Apr 18 13:14:30 as there is no ideal dynamic array method Apr 18 13:14:39 thiago: Of course it is Apr 18 13:14:59 thiago: But still a pig, when you rely on dynamic allocation everywhere in your code Apr 18 13:15:10 lcuk: For modest use, there is Apr 18 13:15:45 * lcuk has dynamic arrays in some liqbase components - there is still the point where in new you have to do the same thing malloc would do Apr 18 13:15:55 almost htere Apr 18 13:16:02 "if usedelements+1 > availableelements realloc(arraY) Apr 18 13:16:05 lcuk: The limiting factor for slab allocators is knowing the selection of object sizes you will be allocating. For arrays, the limitign factor is knowing the average array size. This one is way easier to predict. Apr 18 13:16:18 http://black-flag.co.uk/files/class-map.png Apr 18 13:16:28 realloc causes god to kill kittens Apr 18 13:16:40 lcuk: that is why I am not using it. Apr 18 13:16:43 because if your array is 4000 items byval, you have to coy the entire thing Apr 18 13:16:57 my friend almost hit a fessent the other day Apr 18 13:17:15 and then make sure all the pointers your functions might have held are changed over Apr 18 13:17:19 lcuk: But my array is never 4000 items and it is rarely byval (or it contains ints) Apr 18 13:17:22 and any references are updated Apr 18 13:17:40 And no, I am not giving anyone references directly to array elements Apr 18 13:17:41 RST38h, so your array is not an object collection Apr 18 13:17:50 lcuk: It is an array. Apr 18 13:17:59 lcuk: I do not know what "object collection" is. Apr 18 13:18:04 of course its an array Apr 18 13:18:09 but its not a collection of actors in a game Apr 18 13:18:15 It may be Apr 18 13:18:59 kudos to anyone who understands my class map Apr 18 13:20:11 I can't even see the picture Apr 18 13:20:20 oh Apr 18 13:20:25 i can Apr 18 13:20:49 Firefox says there are errors in the file :o Apr 18 13:21:01 Now it started rendering slowly Apr 18 13:21:15 http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/class-map.png Apr 18 13:21:16 So nvm, works now Apr 18 13:21:41 hmm, it's 2MB Apr 18 13:22:13 looks kinda messy Apr 18 13:22:52 maybe draw class relations and data relations in separate graphs? Apr 18 13:26:31 Grah, studying for an UML exam is dead boring :S Apr 18 13:27:31 * CosmoHill pets Zeikko Apr 18 13:27:59 lecturer B goes "lecturer A has taught you about this in UML" and we all go "ermm, no" Apr 18 13:28:35 That happens every now and then when teachers don't know what each other are teaching :P Apr 18 13:28:55 and assuming students actually learnt something Apr 18 13:28:55 :P Apr 18 13:30:56 I got an A for UML but i have no idea how Apr 18 13:31:00 Our UML lecturer gave us an assignment to create multiple UML graphs of a coding project we're doing on another course. Too bad he didn't know we are coding robots in the course nowadays. So here we are making use case graphs of a robot Apr 18 13:31:17 sex bot UML? Apr 18 13:32:05 that would explain the hour and hours of out of school studying Apr 18 13:32:31 and blindness/hairy palms etc Apr 18 13:42:37 I have been working with C++ for over 4 years now Apr 18 13:42:45 the last time I used UML was in the University Apr 18 13:43:40 lol thiago_home im sure you mean, "we use best design practices every day and i happily construct and modify UML diagrams during my coffee break" :D Apr 18 13:43:41 Way to go :) Apr 18 13:43:56 thiago_home: you have people who do UML for you instead? ;) Apr 18 13:44:32 I use UML at work sometimes though. Apr 18 13:45:26 Stskeeps: no Apr 18 13:45:28 Stskeeps: there is no UML Apr 18 13:46:56 thiago_home: I've been working with C++ since febuary Apr 18 13:47:22 UML is for consultants to show that they are doing some work Apr 18 13:47:37 Well, i'm a consultant :D Apr 18 13:49:28 * thiago_home was a consultant too Apr 18 13:49:40 but I only did powerpoints and shareholder valuation analyses Apr 18 13:51:16 * CosmoHill goes out shopping Apr 18 13:51:34 "French is for chefs to show that they are doing some work" Apr 18 13:52:20 UML can be used to convey something, just as any other language that both speaker and listener understand. Apr 18 13:52:50 true Apr 18 13:53:09 but in my work experience, I've never seen it used to convey any message Apr 18 13:54:21 I have seen plenty of messages in UML. Apr 18 13:54:54 But I guess that's not something you can argue about. :-) Apr 18 14:57:34 Still no MeeGo image for Netbooks with enabled GUI available ? Apr 18 14:59:35 I haven't seen any announcements Apr 18 14:59:39 have you? Apr 18 15:00:47 I hereby announce that: Apr 18 15:00:51 i have nothing to announce! Apr 18 15:01:07 Yay, nonannouncements! :D Apr 18 15:01:13 a paradox! Apr 18 15:01:17 hey, that was an announcement Apr 18 15:01:17 They're almost as good as announcements that you'll be making an announcement ;) Apr 18 15:01:20 doesn't compute! doesn't compute! Apr 18 15:01:28 roger roger Apr 18 15:04:39 Ok, so no announcmment, no img :( I hoped there might be an onofficial dogfood link :> Apr 18 15:23:18 s/onofficial/unofficial/ Apr 18 15:23:29 well, meego uses rpm Apr 18 15:23:38 so you can squat on the repo and watch it for updates Apr 18 15:26:02 are serial / console ports RJ11 or RJ54? Apr 18 16:08:34 Hello, does anybody know if meego is looking the same as moblin or is a new concept in plan? Apr 18 16:10:59 phil2211, define "MeeGo" Apr 18 16:11:02 and "looking" Apr 18 16:11:43 Sorry i mean MeeGo for Atom based Netbooks Apr 18 16:11:57 Mostly, yes, apparently. Apr 18 16:12:30 The current builds are marked for internal use only, however, so only NDA people can really say. Apr 18 16:12:44 I ask because i'm currently in love with moblin Apr 18 16:13:09 Open . . . open . . . open. Not--not--not. Apr 18 16:13:20 OK, thanks for this answer. Apr 18 16:15:43 GAN900: so overall, what was your feeling about the show? Apr 18 16:15:55 just a bunch of suits stroking each other? Apr 18 16:16:44 TSCHAKeee, mixed Apr 18 16:16:49 Very few suits Apr 18 16:16:57 ok Apr 18 16:17:21 I may not have done any work today Apr 18 16:17:25 but I got new shoes :) Apr 18 16:17:32 the whole vibe is just Apr 18 16:17:34 Mostly engineers and community types. Apr 18 16:17:34 weird Apr 18 16:17:39 Yeah Apr 18 16:17:56 Lot of talk about open that's backed up by very little substantive. Apr 18 16:18:01 yup Apr 18 16:18:15 Even in areas where it should be easy. Like the website. Apr 18 16:18:18 yeah Apr 18 16:18:31 did anyone notice Apr 18 16:18:35 they made the forum hard to get to? Apr 18 16:18:49 Imad said arch discussions are open during his talk on Wednesday Apr 18 16:18:50 there's a forum ? Apr 18 16:18:59 case...and....point.... Apr 18 16:19:06 The technical panel on Thursday says that's not the case Apr 18 16:19:17 and probably wont be until November Apr 18 16:19:18 *facepalm* Apr 18 16:19:36 Votan, http://forum.meego.com Apr 18 16:19:47 try getting to the forum from the main site Apr 18 16:20:07 it's buried on a page under community, in a link in the middle of the page. Apr 18 16:20:16 they gave it a forum page, yup Apr 18 16:20:22 with a useless blurb Apr 18 16:20:27 and a link to the actual forum Apr 18 16:20:32 *scratch-head* Apr 18 16:20:36 ohhhkay Apr 18 16:21:31 TSCHAKeee, I heard a lot of the same things I've been hearing in Maemo for the past 5 years Apr 18 16:21:52 ok so the same things i've been hearing too Apr 18 16:21:55 ok Apr 18 16:21:59 * TSCHAKeee takes a deep breath Apr 18 16:22:00 "It'll be better soon", "Just wait a bit", "That'll change RSN". . . . Apr 18 16:22:33 i have a very distinct feeling that the community people are being stopped by corporate flypaper Apr 18 16:22:50 TSCHAKeee, yeah. . . . Apr 18 16:22:58