**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 21 02:59:56 2010 Apr 21 07:46:32 hi Apr 21 07:48:28 hello Apr 21 08:51:53 morning slaine Apr 21 08:55:02 Dear god its started already Apr 21 08:55:19 what has? Apr 21 08:55:23 I only sat down and I'm being told I've non scheduled work to do that's been promised to a customer Apr 21 08:55:34 heh Apr 21 08:55:41 who keeps making these promises is what I want to know Apr 21 08:55:55 the things we do for money.. Apr 21 08:55:56 :P Apr 21 09:01:10 * Stskeeps glances at his scratchbox session Apr 21 09:06:42 slaine: happens almost every day to me but you get used to it =) Apr 21 09:06:52 Tumi_: no you don't Apr 21 09:07:23 it's about planning the allocation.. Apr 21 09:07:59 I could have my team working on scheduled roadmaps 20% of the time and still get screwed over by these guys Apr 21 09:11:15 I'm used to plan time tables loose because I know there will be extra work, but if that was not expected, it sucks Apr 21 09:12:45 slaine: what are you working on anyway? Apr 21 09:14:29 I work for a company that sells software into hospitals, "Patient Infotainment" for the marketoid term. Touchscreen LCD PC that's used for iptv, Vod, Aod, internet, patient medical records by hospital staff etc. Apr 21 09:16:21 nice! and you're now targetting meego as base platform? Apr 21 09:19:38 Tumi_: I'd like to, too many barriers to entry at the moment Apr 21 09:20:28 slaine, principally patients cannot work the command line :D Apr 21 09:21:00 lcuk, lol, yes, I can't get my touchscreen keyboard to show in 80x24 mode Apr 21 09:22:29 slaine: yep, could be that for a while, still.. Apr 21 09:22:48 but you're running own qt software? Apr 21 09:32:41 hi Apr 21 09:37:49 how to play meego? Apr 21 09:38:41 you have to have some a bottle of vodka, a sauna and snow Apr 21 09:39:11 Stskeeps: i thougt that was Jocke? ;) Apr 21 10:38:26 i want to create a generic meego image for arm target Apr 21 10:38:41 do i require to use livecd or live usb option? Apr 21 10:38:49 i want to create the rootfs Apr 21 10:39:12 deepa, I think there's a raw option too for a rootfs Apr 21 10:39:25 deepa_: in newer mic2, there's a -f fs Apr 21 10:39:31 which puts it a directory Apr 21 10:39:35 perfect Apr 21 10:39:49 that option was really needed :P Apr 21 10:40:49 u mean to say --format=liveusb Apr 21 10:40:50 ? Apr 21 10:41:07 no, --format=fs Apr 21 10:41:22 ok Apr 21 10:41:29 thanks Apr 21 10:41:32 let me try Apr 21 10:41:35 :) Apr 21 10:41:43 you need to get git head of mic2 for that Apr 21 10:41:55 am curious, what ARM version is the device you're trying to target? Apr 21 10:46:04 which config file I have to use to create image? Apr 21 10:46:27 start with the arm-n900 one Apr 21 10:48:00 am using this cmd sudo mic-image-creator --config=default.ks --format=fs --cache=mycache Apr 21 10:48:09 :nod: Apr 21 10:48:15 remember -a armv5tel too Apr 21 10:48:15 where can I get .ks file? Apr 21 10:48:19 repo.meego.com Apr 21 10:58:13 any specific path in repo.meego Apr 21 10:58:16 ? Apr 21 10:59:30 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/n900/images/ Apr 21 11:00:45 am looking for.ks file Apr 21 11:01:28 it's there Apr 21 11:01:28 :P Apr 21 11:08:12 yello Apr 21 11:18:40 when am tryingto create image with this options Apr 21 11:18:42 udo mic-image-creator --config=arm-n900.ks --format=fs --cache=mycache Apr 21 11:18:55 it says image format fs not supported Apr 21 11:19:04 try format=loop Apr 21 11:19:24 deepa_: as i said, you need to grab the git release version Apr 21 11:20:40 i didn't get you Apr 21 11:22:15 you need to get the latest version from the development tree of image creator Apr 21 12:51:34 I am trying to run qemu-system-arm -M n900 with meego_qemu_nand.img and get qemu: hardware error: onenand_reset: Loading the BootRAM failed. Any hints? Is there a place I should check or report this? Apr 21 13:08:00 hmmm, interesting Apr 21 13:08:14 will iPad be an IVI killer Apr 21 13:08:46 i wouldn't want to use a ipad interface in the car Apr 21 13:09:06 for passengers Apr 21 13:09:10 a round device covering the centre of steering wheel would be neat Apr 21 13:09:25 article on cars.com about it Apr 21 13:10:24 IVI needs oil slick and rocket launcher deployment functionality Apr 21 13:10:32 http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/chi-ipad-car-dvd-system-042010,0,7902449,print.story Apr 21 13:10:41 not quiet ivi Apr 21 13:10:41 is there a qt interface for those components? Apr 21 13:11:58 lcuk: Round lcd: http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/hardware/circular-lcd-debuts Apr 21 13:12:06 Could fit nicely ;) Apr 21 13:13:35 hahah X-Fade Apr 21 13:13:37 neato Apr 21 13:13:48 ive done some work on a circular ui :) Apr 21 13:14:12 Could be quite cool for IVI though. Apr 21 13:14:13 and dynamic rotation works better with circles (tho a cluster of them in a rectangular window works nicer) Apr 21 13:16:19 hi spyro \o Apr 21 13:17:42 X-Fade, that circular lcd ui - it has "tmo" in it :D Apr 21 13:18:01 lcuk: tmd ;) Apr 21 13:18:31 * lcuk gets eyes tested Apr 21 13:19:56 there seem to be some community SIGs appearing in meego.com, should there be an index page for them on the site, perhaps? Apr 21 13:20:09 SIGs? Apr 21 13:20:24 special interest groups Apr 21 13:20:43 url? Apr 21 13:20:53 http://wiki.meego.com/Security_interest_group Apr 21 13:21:18 wiki.meego.com usually i guess Apr 21 13:23:44 Okay, I can't install the qt-demos on chrooted meego on my N900. Just says packages not available. Should I configure some extra repository, or what? Apr 21 13:24:36 yum search demos ? Apr 21 13:24:42 ah, no Apr 21 13:24:45 look at /etc/yum.repos.d Apr 21 13:24:50 it says ia32 there instead of arm Apr 21 13:25:07 Yes it does Apr 21 13:26:26 I tried changing trunk/repo/ia32 to n900/repo/arm, but that didn't help Apr 21 13:26:53 ah, no, change to trunk/repo/arm Apr 21 13:27:08 Ok, I'll try that Apr 21 13:31:20 jusliukk: That's the Secuity group Apr 21 13:31:27 not special interest group Apr 21 13:31:37 though we should probably have something like that Apr 21 13:33:00 slaine, someone had put up the SIG wiki page so I added my name to the interested-parties list :) Apr 21 13:33:04 didn't know how official it was Apr 21 13:33:28 afaik there were no maemo6 security developers on that list Apr 21 13:33:50 I guess they're not interested Apr 21 13:33:52 :) Apr 21 13:33:57 :) Apr 21 13:34:02 good to see the community is, though Apr 21 13:41:51 Well, changing the repos to arm, didn't help either. Apr 21 13:42:01 resolv.conf set right? Apr 21 13:42:31 Yes, server names are found ok Apr 21 13:43:36 Oh, my bad. I thought I had checked that. Apr 21 13:51:43 hello Apr 21 13:52:34 No one running meego_qemu_nand.img in qemu? Apr 21 14:08:04 Yeah, name resolving is not functioning in my meego. Have to take a deeper look tomorrow. Thanks for the help anyway! Apr 21 15:09:27 seems like at the moment everybody is rushing to declare ipad an "everything" killer Apr 21 15:09:57 even with all the work people have put into appropriate medical devices, Apr 21 15:09:59 could we declare it a whale killer then? Apr 21 15:10:08 now the press think ipad will sweep all that away Apr 21 15:10:23 it probably kills baby seals, too, right :) Apr 21 15:10:59 I personally think that ipad is a nice opening for low-cost, simpler (and more open) ebook readers that can do something more than just connect to a single gateway and accept payment Apr 21 15:11:15 competition is a good thing Apr 21 15:13:24 dead tree books have one strong positive side vs all other electronic readers Apr 21 15:13:32 you dont fry yourself if you drop book in bath Apr 21 15:14:05 convenience, relative weight, no need for batteries, ... Apr 21 15:14:25 yeah but needing a pickup truck for your entire library is the downside Apr 21 15:14:37 * lcuk does see some benefits of electronics ;) Apr 21 15:14:51 books and music are different beasts in that regard, really Apr 21 15:15:06 with music, you *want* to have as much with you as possible Apr 21 15:15:14 really? Apr 21 15:15:22 with books, you really need only a couple at a time Apr 21 15:16:15 well... how often do you jump from playlist to another? how often do you find yourself looking for something different? Apr 21 15:16:29 i rarely listen to music Apr 21 15:16:40 i prefer to make my own tune Apr 21 15:16:41 :) Apr 21 15:17:08 ah, a creative spirit with musical talents Apr 21 15:17:26 nope - creative spirit who finds music distracting Apr 21 15:33:42 I'd be more like Bostik Apr 21 15:33:54 I have music on the majority of the day Apr 21 15:35:03 slaine, theres a few times when i have music but mostly prefer to concentrate Apr 21 15:50:47 it s also a matter of music style Apr 21 15:51:18 what music should a meego advert have Apr 21 15:51:26 something like Amon Amarth - Guardians of Asgaard help a lot to concentrate at office Apr 21 15:51:27 Khertan: I don't think so Apr 21 15:51:37 It's about what YOU like Apr 21 15:51:41 as it s avoid other to stay in your desktop Apr 21 15:51:47 :) Apr 21 15:51:58 lol Apr 21 15:52:01 and prevents people to talk you Apr 21 15:52:56 dneary: good evening sir Apr 21 15:53:03 will you remember to be around tonight ? Apr 21 15:53:05 hi Apr 21 15:53:17 I just asked a few minutes ago (in limbo) Apr 21 15:53:25 in how many hours is the meeting? Apr 21 15:53:32 slaine, I'm stranded in SFO Apr 21 15:53:56 dneary: oh no, disaster Apr 21 15:54:01 ash cloud ? Apr 21 15:54:10 Meego music should be : Leftfield : Open up! Apr 21 15:54:24 lcuk, lmao Apr 21 15:55:01 Yeah Apr 21 15:55:03 a suggestions thread would be good on forum Apr 21 15:55:09 Catashtrophy Apr 21 15:55:11 dneary, 19:00 UTC Apr 21 15:55:22 slaine, I don't know this time zone Apr 21 15:55:33 How many hours from now? Apr 21 15:55:33 2? Apr 21 15:55:37 or 1? Apr 21 15:55:37 3 Apr 21 15:55:40 Ah Apr 21 15:55:48 5pm here Apr 21 15:55:53 That doesn't sound right... Apr 21 15:55:56 19:00 UTC == 20:00 IST Apr 21 15:56:03 dneary - bummer to hear that your stranded Apr 21 15:56:15 DawnFoster, Yeah Apr 21 15:56:18 the TSG is at noon San Francisco time (3 hours) Apr 21 15:56:37 If I'd acted faster I could've come up to Portland to visit Intel for a few days Apr 21 15:56:43 OK, thanks Apr 21 15:56:46 I heard that Quim got out but that Ronan was maybe still stuck there? Apr 21 15:56:46 I plan to attend Apr 21 15:56:57 coolage Apr 21 15:57:02 DawnFoster, I saw them on Sunday, but no news since Apr 21 15:57:03 cool. Hopefully, you can get a flight back home soon Apr 21 15:57:08 Saturday Apr 21 15:57:19 Nick is still trapped abroad too Apr 21 15:57:26 as is one of my support guys Apr 21 15:57:28 hi Apr 21 15:57:29 I don't have a big corporate account to wave at people, I just needed to rebook my flight Apr 21 15:59:01 :( dneary Apr 21 16:05:43 twitted about the musical score for the adverts http://twitter.com/lcuk/status/12584002685 Apr 21 16:05:51 retweet or suggest your own :P Apr 21 16:08:58 Thanks lcuk Apr 21 16:09:10 how long till you are back dneary Apr 21 16:09:17 I get home on Sunday Apr 21 16:10:00 jeez as you say knowing that you couldv planned around it - its the same story for lots of folks Apr 21 16:10:21 lcuck: you don't want my suggestions - I have terrible taste in music :) Apr 21 16:10:38 DawnFoster, everybody has a voice! Apr 21 16:11:01 :D isnt that one of the key things of meego, good bad indifferent - speak up and get involved Apr 21 16:11:40 but having said that, if your music is that bad, perhaps you should stay quiet :p :D Apr 21 16:12:49 lcuk: my music library is mostly a combination of foul mouthed heavy metal and 80's pop music - it's pretty embarrassing :) Apr 21 16:13:03 heh Apr 21 16:13:45 DawnFoster, at least you have hair long enough to rock out with :D Apr 21 16:14:02 can you do the spinny round your head thing? (when very drunk obviously) Apr 21 16:14:25 DawnFoster: if I wasn't married ...... Apr 21 16:14:26 I'm going to stop answering questions now to avoid incriminating myself :P Apr 21 16:14:35 haha Apr 21 16:14:41 you guys are funny Apr 21 16:14:44 That's pretty much my musical collection too Apr 21 16:15:03 * slaine is listening to Static-X atm and Talking Heads 10 mins ago Apr 21 16:15:05 DawnFoster, pick anybody in the audience and the music collections will be similar Apr 21 16:15:48 slaine: how funny, I have several static-x cds. I didn't think anyone else listened to them Apr 21 16:15:55 the bikers riding round on harleys might have cheesy pop on too Apr 21 16:16:43 DawnFoster: saw them a few years ago supporting Korn. They blew korn away. So ended up getting most of their stuff since Apr 21 16:17:10 whenever i go to concerts its amusing to look around at the sheer range of people music touches Apr 21 16:17:22 any TSG news? Apr 21 16:17:46 lbt: the TSG should be in 2.75 hours Apr 21 16:17:57 ta... Apr 21 16:18:01 * thiago_home confirms Valtteri is at home, not lost somewhere in the world Apr 21 16:18:02 no big news - the agenda is posted Apr 21 16:18:08 however, his DSL connection was quite bad this morning Apr 21 16:18:36 thoughts on the "Repository Working Group - next steps" email anyone? Apr 21 16:18:47 we need a new name for it ... Apr 21 16:18:55 Packages Working Group Apr 21 16:18:58 "Downloads Group" Apr 21 16:19:13 * lbt favours calling it "Surrounds" Apr 21 16:19:39 since it covers garage, Extras and something like Universe Apr 21 16:19:53 lbt, was thinking about that earlier Apr 21 16:20:19 we're probably looking at something more akin to Fedora's SIG's and community driven spins Apr 21 16:20:33 not spins, no Apr 21 16:20:53 AFAIUI spins are almost distros in their own right? Apr 21 16:20:56 with images ? Apr 21 16:21:23 kind of. They're the same distro with different packages Apr 21 16:21:47 I don't think that's in the scope for this group. Apr 21 16:21:47 Fedora ships with Gnome by default. But there's an Xfce spin of Fedora, a KDE spin of fedora etc. Apr 21 16:22:09 I don't think the scope of what we're hoping is going to happen though Apr 21 16:22:20 we'll find out later perhaps Apr 21 16:22:24 arent spins called remixes? Apr 21 16:22:25 MeeGo will not ship any of those Apr 21 16:22:27 ah, now, the group *would* support Xfce packages in an area Apr 21 16:22:33 or has there been a new email ive missed Apr 21 16:22:46 thiago_home: indeed - so the community needs somewhere to jointly manage them Apr 21 16:22:52 No, this was just my thoughts on it Apr 21 16:23:03 rather than fragmenting into non-meego repos Apr 21 16:23:07 wait, that was my handset/touch mindset at play Apr 21 16:23:10 exactly Apr 21 16:23:15 I keep forgetting the netbooks Apr 21 16:23:33 thiago_home: specifics don't matter Apr 21 16:23:48 they do Apr 21 16:23:52 it's how to manage the variations on the MeeGo theme's that's the problem Apr 21 16:23:55 Apr 21 16:23:58 applications not suited for a particular form-factor shouldn't be included Apr 21 16:24:02 no, they don't Apr 21 16:24:28 the specifics of Xfce doesn't matter. It is an example application that the community may choose to support Apr 21 16:24:36 it may be fvwm-touch Apr 21 16:24:57 right Apr 21 16:25:01 the point is there *will* be packages not in MeeGo :) Apr 21 16:25:07 thiago_home: agreed, but the point of an open project is that if someone wants open office on their mobile phone, and there's packages, then they should be allowed to run with it. If others of like minds all pitch in, they could have a pre-rolled spin that does what they want Apr 21 16:25:08 right Apr 21 16:25:20 and we want to provide a professional place to manage them ... Apr 21 16:25:25 Surrounds is that place Apr 21 16:25:40 some packages are part of a greater suite Apr 21 16:25:41 It doesn't mean that Nokia will be shipping open office on the n900 image though Apr 21 16:26:13 eg gtk-touch may eventually not be part of MeeGo.... but it could be community supported in Surrounds Apr 21 16:26:32 lbt, so I don't think the idea of the spins and special interest groups is that far from the core of what the RWG was about Apr 21 16:26:39 the maemo compatibility libraries may live in Surrounds Apr 21 16:27:11 how about making this separation explicit Apr 21 16:27:18 slaine: I think spins would be out of scope but would be projects managed by other groups according to the policy set for Surrounds Apr 21 16:27:31 core packages, form-factor-specific packages, official Extras and "whatever else" ? Apr 21 16:27:31 spins would be Surrounds compliant :) Apr 21 16:27:43 thiago_home: pretty much Apr 21 16:27:59 lbt, yes, but at the last meeting the TSG didn't see the need for a RWG at all Apr 21 16:28:01 thiago_home: essentialy !Core Apr 21 16:28:29 the last meeting? or the one where it was proposed Apr 21 16:28:40 wasn't that the last one ? Apr 21 16:28:47 no, last but 2 Apr 21 16:28:55 Oh no, I missed the last one due to illness Apr 21 16:29:17 the comments asked for ml discussion Apr 21 16:29:35 and I didn't initiate any :( Apr 21 16:30:25 yeah, but they had their own ideas on how to operate and manage the garage/extras repo and didn't seem to see the need for a RWG. Like I said, they where open to discussing further, but my impression was more that they'd be open to discussing how the community could participate in their idea of a garage/extras setup Apr 21 16:30:38 icbw though, but that was what I read into it Apr 21 16:31:13 slaine: I know. I think we need some community commentary on what community means. Apr 21 16:31:26 I think there is a miscommunication about what a "working group" should be. Apr 21 16:31:33 as a redneck ski-instructor says "that ain't it" Apr 21 16:31:36 DawnFoster: possibly Apr 21 16:31:49 DawnFoster: not worried about the WG moniker Apr 21 16:32:01 for example, localization working group was turned down because it was a core part of the project. Apr 21 16:32:10 One of the questions I'd like to ask tonight is, What in the TSG's understanding, is the scope of the meego communities involvement. Apr 21 16:32:13 as you can see, still tons of community involvement Apr 21 16:32:25 but it sits in the project infrastructure, not as a working group Apr 21 16:32:34 yeah, but DawnFoster, a core part of a community project with no open or community involvment ? Apr 21 16:32:52 There is open community involvement lbt Apr 21 16:32:53 there is a ton of community involvement in localization Apr 21 16:32:58 the point is that the group should exist... Apr 21 16:33:08 all of the translations are being done by the community Apr 21 16:33:14 it's just not holistic at the moment. Apr 21 16:33:28 lbt: but, should it be part of the core project, maybe? Apr 21 16:33:36 not something separate. Apr 21 16:33:55 look at how working groups have been defined: verticals and community. Apr 21 16:33:59 well, I made the argument that it isn't part of BAU for publishing a distro Apr 21 16:34:07 it is part of the surrounding ecosystem Apr 21 16:34:08 almost everything else sits in the project Apr 21 16:34:18 OTOH it is essential for survival Apr 21 16:34:22 and that is core :) Apr 21 16:34:23 the issue is that they are still defining the project structure Apr 21 16:34:30 nail... head Apr 21 16:34:33 "they" Apr 21 16:34:38 "they are defining" Apr 21 16:34:42 the TSG Apr 21 16:34:46 they Apr 21 16:34:49 exactly who should be defining it Apr 21 16:34:52 on the mailing list? Apr 21 16:34:57 listening? Apr 21 16:35:22 so, this proposal is food for their thought. Apr 21 16:35:39 Sadly it is a one-way conversation at the moment Apr 21 16:35:46 I'm not going to argue timelines here. We've been clear that some things are happening between Intel / Nokia / LF and not everything is 100% transparent now. Apr 21 16:35:50 this is a process. Apr 21 16:36:05 I know. I'm clearly being constructive though :) Apr 21 16:36:21 although perhaps a tad frustrated from time to time Apr 21 16:36:26 even the Linux kernel started with Linus pulling together a first chunk of code without any community involvement. Apr 21 16:36:27 sorry Apr 21 16:37:06 these passionate rants are for people (like you) to distil and propogate Apr 21 16:37:13 hammering on us for not being completely open yet, when all of our communications have explained our process for getting everything out in the open isn't constructive Apr 21 16:37:45 Every time I talk to Imad, I remind him of the things the community is waiting on. Apr 21 16:38:00 *nod* Apr 21 16:38:00 is anyone openly trying to get a graphical qt onto the meego base openly Apr 21 16:38:16 hammering on us constantly sucks up our time when we could be focused on getting things moving Apr 21 16:38:18 as in sat with base and qt and trying to gel them together? Apr 21 16:38:40 DawnFoster: which is why it was 3 weeks from proposal to followup Apr 21 16:38:43 3 weeks Apr 21 16:38:50 not constant hammering Apr 21 16:38:54 be fair Apr 21 16:39:28 OK, but you won't get an answer until the project structure is defined Apr 21 16:39:33 lcuk, you mean take the base image and run something qt on top? Apr 21 16:39:40 unfortunately, I can't speed up that process. Apr 21 16:40:03 agreed. But this is key and we are worried that we'll get "you didn't follow up to the proposal so we decided" Apr 21 16:40:09 trust me when I say that I am just as frustrated by this process as everyone else. Apr 21 16:40:36 given the lack of (much) feedback all we can do is keep asking. Apr 21 16:41:19 bear in mind that this proposal covers the majority of community development Apr 21 16:41:21 I can tell you that I keep bugging people inside to get these things moving, and I've been following up with Bob to see if we can get some feedback out to you. Apr 21 16:41:39 it got several minutes of response 3 weeks ago from the TSG Apr 21 16:41:41 DawnFoster, ahem, "Throw it over the wall" :D Apr 21 16:41:45 and nothing (from them since) Apr 21 16:42:21 I emailed Bob yesterday in the thread Apr 21 16:42:30 lbt: there are so many things that people are trying to sort out right now. We just can't get to everything immediately Apr 21 16:42:52 DawnFoster: Why do you have to do it all though. We're here to help Apr 21 16:42:53 You guys have to be a little patient with us. Apr 21 16:42:56 I know it sucks Apr 21 16:43:10 That's what a community project is for, leveraging a community Apr 21 16:43:42 however, when you are taking 2 projects, merging them together and re-architecting an entire system - you need to focus Apr 21 16:43:57 I'm not going to argue about the timelines or the process. Apr 21 16:44:10 We want to be leveraged, we're not being leveraged, we're being told we could be leveraged 'cause it's open. The only community leverage that's happening at all seems to the the localisation stuff Apr 21 16:44:20 slaine, you are just a sadist Apr 21 16:44:22 It was decided before I joined, it has been communication, and we need to work with what we have Apr 21 16:44:32 :nod: Apr 21 16:45:08 hrm Apr 21 16:45:10 we have been clear that the next release will be in May - until then - things are going to be difficult Apr 21 16:45:50 I think we should probably save all this for the TSG to be honest Apr 21 16:45:57 probably Apr 21 16:45:58 DawnFoster knows how we feel Apr 21 16:46:13 ok, is there an rpg or whatever kind of packaging weapon it needs for qt on the meego base? Apr 21 16:46:23 i want to play with x11+qt Apr 21 16:46:38 i dont care if its out of date Apr 21 16:46:45 i just want to run hello world thats not a terminal app Apr 21 16:46:57 yum install at4-devel? Apr 21 16:47:01 if you have the Qt package, install its demos and examples Apr 21 16:47:05 err.. qt4-devel? Apr 21 16:47:16 ok, so thats available now on the meego base? Apr 21 16:47:17 there's an app called qtdemo Apr 21 16:47:23 and will work on the n900 one? Apr 21 16:47:31 * tripzero has no clue Apr 21 16:47:38 * lcuk is asking thiago_home Apr 21 16:47:51 I don't know the packages, sorry Apr 21 16:47:56 I never use Qt from packages, from any distro Apr 21 16:47:59 you can search your yum repos... Apr 21 16:47:59 not even on the N900 Apr 21 16:48:18 i nearly pasted dogfood Apr 21 16:48:20 100 times Apr 21 16:48:36 why dont you try what your developers will be using? Apr 21 16:48:38 not everyone has a compile farm to compile qt on everything like thiago_home ;) Apr 21 16:48:56 so, does anyone like "Surrounds" :) Apr 21 16:49:10 I'd love some Surrounds speakers :) Apr 21 16:49:25 right, commute time Apr 21 16:49:27 we may as well bikeshed Apr 21 16:49:35 lcuk: not my job to try that actually :-) Apr 21 16:49:39 we have people who make packages Apr 21 16:49:42 I'll catch you all at the meeting later Apr 21 16:49:52 my job is to make bugs Apr 21 16:49:56 thiago_home !!! Apr 21 16:49:56 oops, I shouldn't have said that Apr 21 16:50:02 :-P Apr 21 16:50:04 lol Apr 21 16:50:11 bug #1 - my downstream developers cant do F.A. Apr 21 16:50:29 * thiago_home made his first Qt 4.8 commit today Apr 21 16:50:32 what a negative channel this morning... Apr 21 16:51:06 lcuk: anyway, another reason is that any packages from anyone are, by definition, old for me Apr 21 16:51:29 aside from when we test the packages we're making, that is (and that's not my job, I haven't been in Black Team in a year) Apr 21 16:51:34 thiago_home, in a completely open environment i should be on the same version as you Apr 21 16:51:38 "old" would not exist Apr 21 16:51:52 unless you keep building from Git, you won't be as new Apr 21 16:52:26 of course Apr 21 16:52:38 but if you lose touch with what people on the ground are doing its bad Apr 21 16:52:44 I know Apr 21 16:52:47 long-standing problem Apr 21 16:52:57 and, i am totally aware of exactly the same problem with pr1.2 in fremantle.. Apr 21 16:53:00 for example, none of the Qt developers actually run "make install" Apr 21 16:53:31 Qt 4.6.2 in PR 1.2 is old because we froze it in Week 6 Apr 21 16:53:35 we're in Week 16 Apr 21 16:53:39 thiago_home: isn't that partly because of the seperation of "developing" and "packaging" Apr 21 16:53:40 yeah i know Apr 21 16:53:59 maemo.org repository maintainers have actually come upwith a really novel system Apr 21 16:54:02 lcuk: sorry, but what is "that" in that context? Apr 21 16:54:08 the autobuilder creates backwards compatible packages Apr 21 16:54:11 its amazing to see Apr 21 16:54:56 "that" ? whih line Apr 21 16:55:08 oops Apr 21 16:55:11 ah Apr 21 16:55:12 lbt: that was for you Apr 21 16:55:16 18:53 < lbt> thiago_home: isn't that partly because of the seperation of "developing" and "packaging" Apr 21 16:55:22 ahh Apr 21 16:55:23 no-one runs make install Apr 21 16:55:33 i used to on my 810!" Apr 21 16:55:43 since i couldnt package :D Apr 21 16:55:47 lcuk: that's a historic reason, actually Apr 21 16:55:51 Qt 3 couldn't make install Apr 21 16:55:56 the developers throw it over the wall to the packagers Apr 21 16:56:04 Qt 4 can, but the culture is that you don't Apr 21 16:56:09 ok thiago_home but thats bikeshedding Apr 21 16:56:14 building with -prefix $PWD is the norm Apr 21 16:56:24 most people dont build qt core Apr 21 16:56:30 * lbt suggests it's not finished until it's in a pkg Apr 21 16:56:33 our packages are developers Apr 21 16:56:57 thiago_home, historical situation for any platform Apr 21 16:57:02 well, the Symbian, Maemo, Mac and Windows packages at least Apr 21 16:57:19 the ones for Linux distributions not so, but each distro does it their own way Apr 21 16:57:49 Qt is heavily multi-pkged though... so that's quite different I guess Apr 21 16:57:56 yeah Apr 21 16:58:05 you'd be surprised if you knew what the OpenSUSE people did Apr 21 16:58:08 I was Apr 21 16:58:10 so, whilst it may be old Apr 21 16:58:14 are there working packages Apr 21 16:58:19 yes Apr 21 16:58:28 why arent they part of the base then Apr 21 16:58:32 so people dont have to mess Apr 21 16:58:36 meego? they should be there Apr 21 16:58:44 i thought it was just a console? Apr 21 16:58:45 lcuk, did you look? Apr 21 16:58:53 they're probably not in the image you got Apr 21 16:58:56 but the packages are in the repo Apr 21 16:59:08 it was a 4.6.1 I think Apr 21 16:59:14 4.6.2 prolly Apr 21 16:59:18 ok, any reason why its not in the image Apr 21 16:59:21 whichever version Apr 21 16:59:22 no, I think it was 4.6.1 Apr 21 16:59:28 4.6.X Apr 21 16:59:31 4.0.X Apr 21 16:59:34 lcuk: I don't know Apr 21 16:59:34 it doesnt matter Apr 21 16:59:46 I guess it's because it's not in use yet by any app Apr 21 16:59:59 I mean, xterm ... Apr 21 17:00:10 :) Apr 21 17:00:50 Qt 4.0 is coming up on its 5 year anniversary Apr 21 17:00:56 this June Apr 21 17:00:59 i couldnt download from the repo because my wifi network wont connect Apr 21 17:01:03 and i dont know console stuff Apr 21 17:01:12 hence me asking about it being in the default Apr 21 17:01:29 cool - so its finally properly feature complete! :D Apr 21 17:01:29 I don't know Apr 21 17:01:50 * lcuk worked on a 25 year old app! Apr 21 17:01:52 lcuk: we keep adding features... Apr 21 17:02:01 I think we'll have a 4.10 even Apr 21 17:02:24 adding features is nice - i spent last year building liqbase to do the same Apr 21 17:02:53 but there has to be an ABI freeze sometime Apr 21 17:03:00 or API freeze or whatever it is Apr 21 17:03:03 yes, it's "feature freeze" Apr 21 17:03:17 pr1.2 is in that state now :) Apr 21 17:03:21 Qt goes through "feature freeze", "message freeze", "soft API freeze" and "API freeze" Apr 21 17:03:50 it shouldn't be surprising that a develepment image is incomplete Apr 21 17:03:51 so which version of qt is rock solid reliable and best to use to develop future stable apps for? Apr 21 17:03:52 we're in "soft API freeze" now, with the 4.7 beta to be released, as soon as we get it to compile on Symbian Apr 21 17:04:04 latest stable qt is 4.6.2 Apr 21 17:04:10 lcuk: 4.6.2 Apr 21 17:04:18 tripzero, no, it is surprising that a development image for a qt based distro is incomplete from its primary component Apr 21 17:04:33 so i should not build against the baseline 4.0 api? Apr 21 17:04:43 or have all the basic things changed drastically? Apr 21 17:04:59 4.0 API? no no Apr 21 17:05:04 10 times no Apr 21 17:05:13 lcuk, you've got to start somewhere. It's not even considered alpha. Apr 21 17:05:19 why not? isnt there only realistically 1 way to create a button or textbox Apr 21 17:05:29 for one thing, we consider that Qt4 was really born with 4.2 Apr 21 17:05:37 QPainter.* seems pretty complete Apr 21 17:05:45 i was using the 3.X docs to learn from Apr 21 17:05:47 i think Apr 21 17:05:52 if you want to work with Qt, the current stable or the previous one are the only tolerated Apr 21 17:06:04 nahhh every api has its roots somewhere Apr 21 17:06:04 if you ask about 4.4 or earlier in a Qt IRC channel, you'll be told to upgrade Apr 21 17:06:14 for 99% of things compatability is retained Apr 21 17:06:16 it's like pulling qt 4.8 from git and complaining that it doesn't have the feature you want in it Apr 21 17:06:19 its only if you go down a bad path Apr 21 17:06:28 Qt roots lie in HÃ¥vard Nord's master thesis, published in 1993 Apr 21 17:06:45 his thesis had QObject, signals and slots, QWidget, QPainter Apr 21 17:07:10 yeah Apr 21 17:07:15 so if i use those i cant go wrong Apr 21 17:07:23 somewhat Apr 21 17:07:36 if you want fancy graphics, you want QGraphicsView and its supporting classes, not Qwidget Apr 21 17:07:36 but if i start going for extreme dui stuff and specific methods on newly formed objects im screwed Apr 21 17:07:38 understoof Apr 21 17:08:09 Qt has a strong API compatibility promise Apr 21 17:08:18 if you use anything in 4.6, it should be good Apr 21 17:08:24 then theres no problem with me thinking against a simpler api Apr 21 17:08:46 less methods == less learning == less problems Apr 21 17:08:51 no Apr 21 17:08:54 lego brick syndrome Apr 21 17:09:09 i can build anything with baseline square bricks Apr 21 17:09:19 but im screwed if everything i do requires a red spaceman Apr 21 17:09:24 those damn things are rare Apr 21 17:10:21 * thiago_home is now lost in the lego analogy Apr 21 17:10:25 :D Apr 21 17:10:40 (i wanted a red spaceman when i was a kid) Apr 21 17:10:45 time for shower anyway Apr 21 17:10:52 no worries thiago_home we all get lost when lcuk starts with his analogies Apr 21 17:11:00 ;) Apr 21 17:11:17 now, how can i get meego base + qt without networking other than a flashable image Apr 21 17:11:33 which was my original thing Apr 21 17:11:45 lcuk should have been in the meeting I was this morning, with Valtteri Apr 21 17:11:53 my boss's boss came up with several analogies Apr 21 17:12:08 id rather he came up with some images including qt Apr 21 17:12:12 from "charging phasers" to "chicken and the pig" Apr 21 17:12:31 bbq ? Apr 21 17:12:35 breakfast Apr 21 17:12:47 phased chicken Apr 21 17:13:03 no Apr 21 17:13:11 it's the chicken's and the pig's contribution to breakfast Apr 21 17:13:15 nb != fazed chicken.... altogether different Apr 21 17:13:25 yeah :) Apr 21 17:13:44 * lbt feels like a pig Apr 21 17:13:59 we were talking about how much we can contribute to MeeGo Apr 21 17:14:32 and talking about pig, I said I was going for a shower, so cya Apr 21 17:14:41 l8r Apr 21 17:27:51 hey Apr 21 17:42:10 DawnFoster: how bad is it? does it extend as far as John Cooper Clarke? Apr 21 17:43:15 * TSCHAKee loves John Cooper Clarke Apr 21 17:44:02 mwichmann: not yet, but I'm going to have to check him out :) Apr 21 17:44:12 enjoy Apr 21 17:45:17 my music collection contains a whole category that the boyfriend has dubbed "only suitable for car chase movies" and not suitable for playing while we make dinner :) Apr 21 17:45:31 lol Apr 21 17:46:08 I've been known to make dinner with tuxedomoon playing (admittedly 20-some years ago) Apr 21 17:46:50 static-x, motograter, godsmack and disturbed all fall into that category Apr 21 17:50:48 ehlo, all Apr 21 17:51:39 hi Apr 21 17:51:54 DawnFoster: oo static-x, I've not listen to them in a while Apr 21 17:52:27 hey CosmoHill Apr 21 17:52:30 which static-x track would a new listener tollerate? Apr 21 17:52:44 push it, dirthouse or something else? Apr 21 17:52:49 depends on their preference and music history Apr 21 17:53:04 but then I've just shown a UK techno mix to a 50+ year old french guy Apr 21 17:53:09 and he liked it Apr 21 17:53:30 oh my, the lead guitarist appears to have something growing out from his head! Apr 21 17:53:43 :D Apr 21 17:53:52 * CosmoHill almost lent onto his camera :o Apr 21 17:53:55 lcuk: Shadow Zone might be a good starter track? Apr 21 17:54:07 i think that was what I had Apr 21 17:54:14 DawnFoster: that was on need for speed IIRC Apr 21 17:54:23 youtube has a piano cover! Apr 21 17:54:28 and misheard lyrics Apr 21 17:54:45 ew, all these atom based MIDs that I'm finding suuck Apr 21 17:54:51 i think the london orcaster did a cover of the klaxons Apr 21 17:56:45 so on youtube i get silent videos - on dailymotion i audio but no video Apr 21 17:56:59 you need youmotion Apr 21 17:57:02 or dailytube Apr 21 17:57:02 done anyone have news from qgil? Apr 21 17:57:23 has he been stranded cos of the ash? Apr 21 17:57:33 http://www.little-gamers.com/ Apr 21 17:58:53 * thiago_home sends an SMS Apr 21 17:58:56 I'm not used to having my laptop plugged into my speakers Apr 21 17:58:59 thiago_home haven't heard anything from qgil. I'm assuming he still trying to get home Apr 21 17:59:25 i heard (here?) he was on a flight to europe - so just in motion? Apr 21 17:59:46 rumor was that he made a flight from SFO -> Frankfurt yesterday Apr 21 17:59:46 that was close to 24 hours ago Apr 21 17:59:50 if he is he'll get thiago_home's text when he gets off Apr 21 18:01:01 He should have made it to Frankfurt this morning. No updates since then Apr 21 18:01:19 hi _Sky_ Apr 21 18:01:30 <_Sky_> hi CosmoHill :) Apr 21 18:02:18 I hope he has my number in his address book Apr 21 18:02:28 otherwise he'll have to guess that the +47 is me. I forgot to write my name. Apr 21 18:02:45 I confused a tech at uni cos he didn't know how I got his number Apr 21 18:05:39 I tend to ignore +358 calls outside of work hours Apr 21 18:06:59 ? Apr 21 18:07:06 Finland Apr 21 18:07:15 ah Apr 21 18:07:21 what is +47? Apr 21 18:07:27 / you Apr 21 18:07:27 Norway Apr 21 18:08:01 44 = UK, 45 = Denmark, 46 = Sweden, 47 = Norway, 48 = no idea, 49 = Germany Apr 21 18:08:22 48 = spain i think Apr 21 18:08:58 that's 34 Apr 21 18:09:02 if there is anything over than +44 I'll be suspicious Apr 21 18:09:28 other* Apr 21 18:10:52 hi V-PV! Apr 21 18:11:09 Hi, how is it going? Apr 21 18:11:27 missed the TSG I think.. Apr 21 18:11:41 Ok, was it already? Apr 21 18:11:44 haataja: today's one? Apr 21 18:11:49 48 Poland ;) Apr 21 18:12:13 umm...or is it just in an hour? Apr 21 18:12:14 I expected it to be 22:00 (GTM+2) Apr 21 18:12:27 got me there.. :) Apr 21 18:12:30 V-PV: it's 20:00 at GMT+2 now Apr 21 18:12:41 and the meeting is 21:00 GMT+2 (19:00 UTC) Apr 21 18:12:47 so 22:00 UTC? Apr 21 18:12:51 no Apr 21 18:12:57 18:00 UTC? Apr 21 18:13:21 19 UTC Apr 21 18:13:50 the meeting is in 2 hours? Apr 21 18:13:54 no Apr 21 18:13:55 45 minutes Apr 21 18:13:57 47 Apr 21 18:14:02 damn time zones Apr 21 18:14:19 it's sometime in the future :) Apr 21 18:14:28 :-) Apr 21 18:14:36 So I did not miss a thing yet Apr 21 18:14:47 no Apr 21 18:15:28 V-PV, no - I think i did.. Apr 21 18:15:45 or thought I did.. Apr 21 18:23:38 \o/ win! Apr 21 18:23:47 tracy has ebayed me red legomen Apr 21 18:24:01 lol Apr 21 18:24:13 damn ebay Apr 21 18:24:27 and yellow ones and blue ones Apr 21 18:24:35 * lcuk will glue em to top of monitor Apr 21 18:25:03 to we mill about here drinking tea and chatting before we go into the meego and sit quietly? Apr 21 18:25:14 meego igloo? Apr 21 18:25:15 like the seminar that made me an hour and a half late yesterday Apr 21 18:25:28 I read that as "I go loo" Apr 21 18:26:09 i forgot about meeting - has it started or is it cancelled or soon? Apr 21 18:26:15 35 minutes Apr 21 18:26:38 I should say, the TSG starts in 35 minutes Apr 21 18:28:17 *meeting ;) Apr 21 18:31:06 30 mins Apr 21 18:32:41 * CosmoHill offers dough balls Apr 21 18:38:36 Quim replied Apr 21 18:38:43 yay Apr 21 18:38:47 he's somewhere in Poland, on a bus from Frankfurt to Talinn Apr 21 18:38:47 but you texted someone else Apr 21 18:39:21 "in... europe... need... technology... must... get.. back... to.. finlARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" Apr 21 18:40:08 he should have just stayed in the SF area... we have half a dozen people stranded there, who are working out of the Redwood City office Apr 21 18:40:13 there's another one in Mountain View too Apr 21 18:40:37 homing signal kicks in Apr 21 18:42:01 arent most airports open now anyway? Apr 21 18:42:25 yeah but once you are on the way and actually heading in the right direction Apr 21 18:42:38 do you want to stop and change plans again to delay in airport for however long? Apr 21 18:46:35 and airport open != getting a seat on a flight Apr 21 18:47:38 yeah Apr 21 18:48:04 Eurostar and P&O ferries are fully booked Apr 21 18:56:14 CosmoHill, good job quim isnt coming to the uk then Apr 21 18:56:21 but likely tale everywhere Apr 21 18:56:51 I'm sure europe to UK would have seats Apr 21 18:57:24 he doesnt need uk at all Apr 21 18:57:41 so is TSG in 3mins ? Apr 21 18:58:00 5 Apr 21 18:58:03 * thiago_home updates his clock Apr 21 18:58:24 2 Apr 21 18:58:33 wtf, why isn't plasma updating the clock Apr 21 18:58:34 ntp is a wonderful thing Apr 21 18:58:57 wtf Apr 21 18:59:00 my server is 20 mins off Apr 21 18:59:10 Wed Apr 21 19:33:51 BST 2010 Apr 21 18:59:14 better than being off for 20 mins :) Apr 21 18:59:18 better grab a cuppa Apr 21 18:59:23 hehe Apr 21 19:00:15 I think i have a RPM NPT package somewhere Apr 21 19:01:56 DawnFoster: good timing Apr 21 19:03:08 * GeneralAntilles fires off an email about bugs.meego.com Apr 21 19:04:48 there was a summit? Apr 21 19:04:50 :D Apr 21 19:04:57 can we talk in #meego-meeting Apr 21 19:05:04 yes Apr 21 19:05:09 :o Apr 21 19:05:09 CosmoHill, no Apr 21 19:05:11 On topic Apr 21 19:05:18 dneary: yes, for once Apr 21 19:05:18 dneary: yes Apr 21 19:05:25 lbt don't you need voice? Apr 21 19:05:27 [20:03] * DawnFoster sets mode -m #meego-meeting Apr 21 19:05:31 oh Apr 21 19:05:39 stay on topic, people :) Apr 21 19:05:48 is there a summary from the collab ? Apr 21 19:06:08 will the video be available to download? Apr 21 19:06:10 DawnFoster: do you think it'd be appropriate to ask the tsg about terminology? Apr 21 19:06:33 we need to stick to the agenda, so maybe not this time Apr 21 19:06:51 I'm still confused about the various usages I've seen& heard of working group, project & team Apr 21 19:06:52 lbt, not that I know of. Apr 21 19:07:04 dneary, I didn't manage to get an answer about that from anybody. Apr 21 19:07:11 They seem to be 3 different things in people's minds, with different rules governing them Apr 21 19:07:11 dneary, in summary: I don't think anybody actually knows. Apr 21 19:07:15 Stskeeps: has the agenda changed since this morning ? Apr 21 19:07:28 GeneralAntilles: ta... makes it a bit hard Apr 21 19:07:44 lbt, well, goodnews is that 90% of it was recorded. Apr 21 19:07:47 dneary: what terminology are you confused about? Apr 21 19:08:19 What the hell a Working Group actually is. Apr 21 19:09:00 we need a WGWG for that Apr 21 19:09:05 GeneralAntilles: I think qgil has given up on that - see recent RWG thread in -dev Apr 21 19:09:18 lbt, I maid the point to Quim that a large part of the negative reaction to the Repository Working Group discussion stems from the nebulous definition of the WGs. . . . Apr 21 19:09:26 * GeneralAntilles isn't caught up on the mailing lists. Apr 21 19:09:36 np Apr 21 19:11:19 thiago_home, One person said "I'm not sure if there's going to be a documentation working group, it makes more sense to have a documentation project" Apr 21 19:11:24 And I didn't understand Apr 21 19:11:29 * lbt saw the keynotes on day 1 ... nice marketing but nothing new to people here. The rest wasn't broadcast Apr 21 19:11:42 makes it hard to give feedback or ask anything meaningful Apr 21 19:11:45 lbt, Myrtti recorded the stuff from Thursday. Apr 21 19:11:57 * CosmoHill wonders if the SSSE3 requirements will be dropped Apr 21 19:12:12 lbt, Someone was recording talks in the meego sessions Apr 21 19:12:51 yeah, not published yet though Apr 21 19:12:54 is it? Apr 21 19:12:58 lbt, don't think so. Apr 21 19:13:43 thiago_home, Re. your question on out-of-track stuff, there is always lots of conversation, over dinner tables & coffee Apr 21 19:13:48 * GeneralAntilles facepalms. Apr 21 19:14:03 CosmoHill: doubtful Apr 21 19:14:14 I asked at the start and was slamed Apr 21 19:14:18 dneary: of course Apr 21 19:14:26 wondering if there were anything of relevance Apr 21 19:14:42 or burning topic that popped up Apr 21 19:14:44 thiago_home, off the top of my head: social news, and MeeGo Community Council proposal were both discussed out-of-track. Apr 21 19:14:48 Which might be relevant Apr 21 19:14:53 although no conclusions were reached. Apr 21 19:15:03 well, at least started, which is good Apr 21 19:15:46 Also discussed bugs/bugzilla.meego.com Apr 21 19:15:50 But I just pushed that to -community. Apr 21 19:16:39 * GeneralAntilles is off to go kayaking. Apr 21 19:16:40 Later, all. Apr 21 19:16:56 have fun GeneralAntilles Apr 21 19:18:57 Only a kernel developer could call a mailing list with over 100 messages a month "low traffic" :) Apr 21 19:19:30 DawnFoster: could you add a note about #meego-devel Apr 21 19:19:38 #info thingy Apr 21 19:19:45 anything less than 25/day is low traffic ;) Apr 21 19:20:00 arjan, That's what I'm saying :) Apr 21 19:20:11 arjan, And we're not far off the 25/day recently Apr 21 19:27:14 fiferboy: congrats on the job offer! Apr 21 19:27:51 fiferboy: ? Apr 21 19:28:18 fiferboy? job? :D Apr 21 19:28:37 what's a job? Apr 21 19:29:14 Stskeeps: Thanks! Apr 21 19:29:38 lcuk: Never thought you would hear the two together? Apr 21 19:30:05 just not heard from you in a couple of weeks :) tell all Apr 21 19:30:20 fiferboy, are you coming to .fi ? :D Apr 21 19:30:20 * lbt mutters.... so the feedback on the LF collab from those who were there is "there were various meetings and discussions" Apr 21 19:34:00 I was on a self-imposed hiatus while focusing on family and finding a job Apr 21 19:34:23 It is just a programmer/systems analyst job at a local company, but it is what I wanted to get into Apr 21 19:35:13 fiferboy, :) totally understand stance, and am chuffed you seem to found something Apr 21 19:35:16 at least near to your home, thats good for your family ;) Apr 21 19:35:30 are you thinking of accepting this one? Apr 21 19:35:39 VDVsx: Yeah, but I was looking in Finland too ;) Apr 21 19:35:54 lcuk: Yes, if I don't get any other offers today... Apr 21 19:36:02 * lcuk nods Apr 21 19:37:04 fiferboy, lol, don't "believe the lies", Finland is not a paradise :D Apr 21 19:37:07 * VDVsx hides Apr 21 19:37:48 I'm happy to get out of Finland soon :) Apr 21 19:38:33 * VDVsx suggests hawaii to Zeikko :D Apr 21 19:40:20 we have Imad and Valherri here and we discuss a conference with them Apr 21 19:40:23 WTF? Apr 21 19:40:34 VDVsx: Why Hawaii? I'm going to Canada Apr 21 19:40:37 after all the bitching and moaning about openness? Apr 21 19:41:15 So, what has gone on in the last two months? Any new PRs? ;) Apr 21 19:41:17 lbt, and I get blamed for conspiracy theories. The agenda mentioned openness earlier today, all trace gone now Apr 21 19:42:05 Zeikko, because Hawaii seems a nice place :) relaxing, good weather, cheap beer?, ... Apr 21 19:42:48 fiferboy, there's 1.1.1 :D Apr 21 19:43:04 * VDVsx waits for pr 1.1.1.1.1.1 :D Apr 21 19:43:09 slaine, with a wiki it's pretty easy to see who changed what and when Apr 21 19:43:26 * lcuk slaps VDVsx Apr 21 19:43:26 Can't go wrong with Canada :) Apr 21 19:43:37 hence my question Apr 21 19:43:53 * VDVsx drops a piano at lcuk Apr 21 19:44:24 * thiago_home wonders what to make of his plans for PR 1.4 Apr 21 19:44:44 * lcuk plays a tune Apr 21 19:46:58 dneary: topic has changed Apr 21 19:47:09 dneary: Dawn said that the place and date would be finalised at the latest next week Apr 21 19:47:52 costs? Apr 21 19:47:58 cost to what? Apr 21 19:48:12 the erm dammit what is it called Apr 21 19:48:16 it's not summit Apr 21 19:48:19 conference Apr 21 19:48:38 thank you Apr 21 19:51:44 dneary: somewhere in Europe Apr 21 19:51:59 thiago_home, Yeah, I know, but I just want it to be clear when someone is working on things behind closed doors, so that I don't start working on it Apr 21 19:52:30 I thought it was clear that Dawn and Quim would take point in that Apr 21 20:00:39 damn, should have asked that one sooner Apr 21 20:02:50 slaine - ask again on the mailing list & I'll help you poke people. Apr 21 20:03:18 OK, what did everyone think? Was this better or worse as an unmoderated meeting vs. moderated? Apr 21 20:03:30 better in some ways Apr 21 20:03:49 it did understandable get busy, people asking very long detailed quesitons Apr 21 20:04:01 DawnFoster: maybe a semi-moderated meeting where people ask for turns to talk Apr 21 20:04:04 it's hard to know when it's gone dead as people spend minutes composing long answers Apr 21 20:04:06 I felt more involved than in the previous two I've attended Apr 21 20:04:07 could be done with +'s Apr 21 20:04:09 * CosmoHill really should pay more attention when in the meeting Apr 21 20:04:12 yes lbt Apr 21 20:04:31 the ? Apr 21 20:04:32 stskeeps: Imad and I were just talking about that. Apr 21 20:04:34 . Apr 21 20:04:38 method seemed to work Apr 21 20:04:38 * lbt suggests that when people have long answers they type in fragments so people see activity Apr 21 20:04:55 Maybe moderating while they communicate info and flipping to unmoderated at different points for questions. Apr 21 20:05:05 keeps the focus, but leaves much of the meeting open Apr 21 20:05:09 sounds reasonable Apr 21 20:05:17 and then when they're done Apr 21 20:05:17 . Apr 21 20:05:18 we'll probably have to decide on a per topic basis. Apr 21 20:05:20 we need a "raise hand" feature Apr 21 20:05:31 videochat! Apr 21 20:05:34 lcuk, I think I would prefer somewhere intermediate - the meeting tonight seemed to be too chatty, not very focussed Apr 21 20:05:36 on your meego device Apr 21 20:05:39 more communication focused topics can be moderated and then we can also have open discussions. Apr 21 20:05:41 And in the end of the day, no great insighhts Apr 21 20:05:43 yes dneary Apr 21 20:05:43 # APPEARS AS airplane Apr 21 20:05:47 Imad liked the format Apr 21 20:05:48 but this whole week has been chatty Apr 21 20:06:01 anyone remember MS Comic Chat? Apr 21 20:06:10 DawnFoster, we all liked it better than unmoderated Apr 21 20:06:19 yes better Apr 21 20:06:22 errr sorry Apr 21 20:06:23 locked Apr 21 20:06:40 lcuk: you liked this one better than previous formats? Apr 21 20:06:44 yes Apr 21 20:06:49 immensely - communal Apr 21 20:06:49 lcuk, I'd like it more moderated than tonight, less rigid than usual Apr 21 20:07:05 yeah, me too. It worked better than I thought even though it got a little chaotic at times Apr 21 20:07:07 And thanks for letting the Openess discussion happen, even if it was only for a few mins Apr 21 20:07:24 * thiago_home didn't feel it was chaotic Apr 21 20:07:28 dneary - I think we can experiment to find a happy medium Apr 21 20:07:28 but I'm used to IRC, though Apr 21 20:07:31 not too bad Apr 21 20:07:38 it was chaotic to manage :) Apr 21 20:07:46 Yeah, I was about to say Apr 21 20:08:01 DawnFoster: you may find a separate chan for the meetingbot Apr 21 20:08:09 if I'd just been a participant, it wouldn't have seemed as chaotic Apr 21 20:08:18 or people should just use it with #info Apr 21 20:09:16 the best meeting I've been in had a moderator who called on people to ask questions Apr 21 20:09:28 so you raised your hand with an ! Apr 21 20:09:38 that's fine as long as the question queue is short Apr 21 20:09:45 yes lbt - we tried that format a few weeks ago afaik Apr 21 20:09:50 i liked it Apr 21 20:10:13 cog ? doesnt pollute and lets q&a work Apr 21 20:10:13 maybe only allow first few questions ? Apr 21 20:10:20 cos ^ Apr 21 20:11:02 DawnFoster: are you actively backing up the meeting logs/minutes btw? I back them up myself, but would be good to know if you people do too :) Apr 21 20:11:32 stskeeps the plan is to start doing that, but I don't think that Mike has gotten around to it yet. Apr 21 20:11:51 We want to keep a copy on meego.com so that people can find them through search. Apr 21 20:11:56 :nod: Apr 21 20:11:58 DawnFoster: mlstats gives you a mysql database of every message sent to the list, from a URL of private archives Apr 21 20:12:23 dneary: oh cool Apr 21 20:12:58 You can re-run it every month (or every day) with cron, and get the info you're looking for with simple mysql queries Apr 21 20:13:14 right guys, time to put the kids to bed Apr 21 20:13:21 I'll catch you all tomorrow Apr 21 20:13:21 do you have a link to it? Assume it needs to run on the mailing list server? Apr 21 20:13:28 later slaine! Apr 21 20:13:49 DawnFoster: No, it downloads publoic archives Apr 21 20:13:59 DawnFoster: Your mysql database can be anywhere Apr 21 20:14:04 dneary: yes, just to have internal teams reporting that up to their management would make them think about it Apr 21 20:14:08 oh cool, so I can just run it locally on a mysql db Apr 21 20:14:22 And then some simple php to query & mark up or graph Apr 21 20:14:57 right, time to get ready for a full day of hacking tomorrow :) Apr 21 20:14:59 * Stskeeps heads to bed Apr 21 20:15:06 o/ Apr 21 20:15:25 * thiago_home has a day full of meetings, again Apr 21 20:16:08 Then getting the threads is as simple as (!): "select subject,monthname(first_date) as m,count(*) as c from messages group by subject, month(first_date) order by m, c;" Apr 21 20:16:36 95 posts in the "N900 questions" thread Apr 21 20:16:39 in March Apr 21 20:17:11 do you have a link to the instructions for install / use? Apr 21 20:18:57 DawnFoster: mlstats-0.4 on https://forge.morfeo-project.org/frs/?group_id=33 Apr 21 20:20:06 After setting up the DB user, I "just" ran: "mlstats --db-user=mlstats --db-password=pwd --db-admin-user=root --db-admin-password=pwd http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/" Apr 21 20:20:59 And every mail from the list gets parsed & inserted into the mlstats database Apr 21 20:23:02 From there it's just a question of massaging things Apr 21 20:23:15 and finding the right query to extract the data you want Apr 21 20:29:52 * CosmoHill is watching The ButterFly Effect Apr 21 20:31:22 good movie Apr 21 20:31:28 dneary: thanks so much! *goes off to install stuff and remember how to use mysql* :) Apr 21 20:33:06 hey all, anyone know if there's a yum or zypper repo that has man in it? Apr 21 20:33:11 missing man is so annoying :) Apr 21 20:40:54 * lbt considers a patch for date to understand "day after tomorrow" Apr 21 20:45:26 DawnFoster: :) Apr 21 20:45:40 i might be able to help you with the mysql thingy Apr 21 20:46:29 thiago_home: i've not seen it before but I am enjoying it in a weird way Apr 21 20:46:51 CosmoHill: I've used mysql for local wordpress sandboxes and reporting from dbs, but it's been a year or so, and I was never much of a db expert, so I might take you up on that :) Apr 21 20:47:00 I'm installing stuff now Apr 21 20:47:23 * CosmoHill goes for a shower Apr 21 21:06:36 back Apr 21 21:06:46 just been chasing my hamster around Apr 21 21:12:38 * lbt sees the meego-community list is agreeing some groundbreaking stuff.... Apr 21 21:13:46 lbt: can't paint bike sheds without a few colours to choose between ;) Apr 21 21:14:33 :) Apr 21 22:40:04 typing an email to follow up on openness and transparency Apr 21 22:40:30 think of the worst word you can Apr 21 22:40:39 but the words "Netgear is" infront of it Apr 21 22:41:00 "Netgear Norton Antivirus" Apr 21 22:41:22 that's two words but I'll give you that Apr 21 22:41:45 Netgear Bollocectomy Apr 21 22:41:52 just "Norton" works, but i was trying to clarify Apr 21 22:42:10 I liked norton back in the DOS days Apr 21 22:42:23 was it bigger than the OS? Apr 21 22:42:24 yes Apr 21 22:42:29 (1st q) Apr 21 22:42:44 it then got worse than the viruses it was protecting against Apr 21 22:43:01 Well, I was thinking more of the utilities Apr 21 22:43:14 norton disk doctor? Apr 21 22:43:33 yeah, and speed disk Apr 21 22:43:44 I remember them :) Apr 21 22:43:54 I uninstalled norton at a lan party Apr 21 22:44:17 made my dev box ( a Pentium 50Mhz ) run like a charm Apr 21 22:44:26 90, sorry Apr 21 22:44:43 like I'd tell the difference Apr 21 22:44:58 actually, no, that box was a 486DX 50Mhz Apr 21 22:45:08 my PC at home was the Pentium 90 Apr 21 22:45:11 I've used Windows 3.1 on a 66Mhz laptop Apr 21 22:45:24 wb DawnFoster Apr 21 22:45:32 that was the uber machine of choice when 3.1 came out Apr 21 22:45:46 slaine: this was in 2006... Apr 21 22:45:55 this was 1995 :) Apr 21 22:46:06 if you opened the laptop wrong the keyboard went up with the screen Apr 21 22:46:08 hey CosmoHill Apr 21 22:47:38 Cosmo[PB]: lol, sounds like my old Vaio Apr 21 22:48:23 i don't know why we still had laptops with windows 3.1 on Apr 21 22:52:36 the floor isn't the best place for my DSLR Apr 21 22:52:47 ns identify santa572june Apr 21 23:17:42 cyas Apr 21 23:17:59 lol gys im on my sisters ipod kind of irionc how its not banned on macosx olo Apr 21 23:51:19 hey all, I've built a product that allows for real-time, brandable, communities to be created on the web and I was curious if you guys would like to take a look at what we have to offer. We've been working with a lot of communities on IRC and Freenode to get their feedback. Apr 22 00:30:24 * Openfree is away: I'm busy Apr 22 00:38:40 * Openfree is back (gone 00:08:25) Apr 22 02:35:57 hey hey **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 22 02:59:57 2010