**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 28 02:59:56 2010
Apr 28 07:13:52 <miblon> Hi people! I came from moblin and can't wait to see meego in action. My wishlist? Get meego running on my eee 1005HA and buy the first available nokia phone that runs meego. Can I order one already :D?
Apr 28 07:14:06 <miblon> pre-order?
Apr 28 08:15:23 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Apr 28 08:15:29 <Stskeeps> morning
Apr 28 08:22:46 <Anss|> m0rn1ng.
Apr 28 08:36:54 <Stskeeps> morning slaine
Apr 28 08:37:48 <slaine> It's not officially morning 'til I have some coffee
Apr 28 08:38:19 <Stskeeps> indeed
Apr 28 08:49:43 * lbt sends a haiku to -dev...
Apr 28 08:50:57 <slaine> lbt, limericks are funnier
Apr 28 08:51:11 <lbt> this was a sad one ....
Apr 28 08:51:48 <Termana|AFK> People on mailing list
Apr 28 08:52:07 <Termana|AFK> Are stupider than me
Apr 28 08:52:10 <Termana|AFK> I will kill them nao
Apr 28 08:52:50 <Termana|AFK> They are*
Apr 28 08:52:57 <Termana|AFK> It has to be 7 in the middle :P
Apr 28 08:53:04 <lbt> and 5 in the 1st
Apr 28 08:53:24 * lbt points Termana|AFK to an online haiku-checker
Apr 28 08:53:39 <Termana|AFK> ahh shit I thought that was 5, oh well :P Remind me not to try haiku's again :P
Apr 28 08:53:41 <lbt> QA'ed poetry
Apr 28 09:06:51 <Wunderkind> :D
Apr 28 09:06:54 <Wunderkind> hola \o/
Apr 28 09:07:09 <Stskeeps> hola
Apr 28 09:08:57 <slaine> an eulogy ?
Apr 28 09:09:13 <Wunderkind> an what what?
Apr 28 09:09:20 <slaine> I would have said "a eulogy"
Apr 28 09:09:35 <slaine> regardless, nice haiku lbt
Apr 28 11:38:54 <Mirv> hi. I wrote this deb -> rpm example page http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Deb_conversion_example, modifications welcome
Apr 28 11:39:25 <Mirv> note that I've strong deb background and I learned rpm myself while writing that, so rpm experts definitely have stuff to improve there
Apr 28 11:40:01 <Mirv> also initiated a discussion page over there
Apr 28 11:42:02 <w00t_> Mirv: useful
Apr 28 11:44:09 * CosmoHill might not have the computer's he wanted for his cluster :(
Apr 28 11:44:56 <Anss|> Mirv, thanks,  looks really good!
Apr 28 11:48:30 <Mirv> Anss|: no prob, and thank Nokia for having me do that :P
Apr 28 12:21:12 <WAHa_06x36> ok, I think I figured out my watchdog problems from yesterday.
Apr 28 12:21:31 <WAHa_06x36> the ångström kernel has the watchdog enabled and NOWAYOUT set, so that once it is opened it will never shut off.
Apr 28 12:21:44 <WAHa_06x36> Ångström however never touches /dev/watchdog, so it does not start.
Apr 28 12:21:49 <Stskeeps> makes sense
Apr 28 12:21:51 <WAHa_06x36> but meego does touch it
Apr 28 12:21:55 <Stskeeps> really?
Apr 28 12:21:57 <WAHa_06x36> I can't figure out why, though.
Apr 28 12:22:08 <WAHa_06x36> yeah, that's what the "not stopping" error at bootup is.
Apr 28 12:22:23 <WAHa_06x36> that's what heppens when you close /dev/watchdog.
Apr 28 12:22:25 <Stskeeps> hmm
Apr 28 12:22:40 <WAHa_06x36> any clue what would be touching it? grep -R watchdog in /etc/ finds nothing obvious.
Apr 28 12:23:53 <WAHa_06x36> except for one line in makedev.d/01linux-2.6.x
Apr 28 12:23:59 <WAHa_06x36> which I don't know what it is, and it just says:
Apr 28 12:24:08 <WAHa_06x36> c $ROOT                 10 130  1   1 watchdog
Apr 28 12:31:48 <WAHa_06x36> commenting it out changes nothing.
Apr 28 12:36:03 <WAHa_06x36> rtkit seems to do something with watchdogs?
Apr 28 12:36:24 <Stskeeps> rtkit?
Apr 28 12:38:25 <WAHa_06x36> whatever that is. something to do with dbus.
Apr 28 12:38:29 <Stskeeps> :nod:
Apr 28 12:38:41 <Stskeeps> ask on meego-dev@ and see if anything touches the watchdog
Apr 28 12:39:07 <Stskeeps> ask, i mean
Apr 28 12:48:43 <Anss|> realtime kit
Apr 28 13:16:18 <slaine> WAHa_06x36: you could try and do something like
Apr 28 13:16:27 <slaine> watch -n 1 lsof /dev/watchdog
Apr 28 13:16:42 <slaine> and see if you can spot what process is writing to it
Apr 28 13:18:43 <WAHa_06x36> well, lsof isn't installed, but more importantly, I know it happens just once, towards the end of the boot process.
Apr 28 13:18:56 <WAHa_06x36> because every time someone writes to it, the kernel throws some debug output.
Apr 28 13:19:07 <WAHa_06x36> (or rather, every time someone closes it)
Apr 28 13:19:40 <slaine> WAHa_06x36: that could simply happen by doing
Apr 28 13:19:48 <slaine> echo -n "1" /dev/watchdog
Apr 28 13:20:00 <slaine> you'll get the same unexpected close, still counting type message
Apr 28 13:22:05 <slaine> and lsof rpms should be available, no reason why you can't include it on your image.
Apr 28 13:22:19 <slaine> btw, the above echo -n ... will pat the watchdog
Apr 28 13:22:29 <slaine> if you had that in a loop, it'd keep your box up
Apr 28 13:22:34 <slaine> but I'm sure you knew that
Apr 28 13:24:09 <WAHa_06x36> yes, I've been doing it by hand to test things with the system running.
Apr 28 13:24:32 <WAHa_06x36> (this is just as bad an idea as it sounds)
Apr 28 14:12:10 <Votan> still no unofficial official word on a gui-enabled atom-based meego iso ß
Apr 28 14:12:12 <Votan> ?
Apr 28 14:12:31 <slaine> Votan, release due for May
Apr 28 14:12:50 <Votan> i hoped for something a little more specific
Apr 28 14:13:57 <slaine> As would the rest of us
Apr 28 14:22:01 <zaheerm> assume may 31
Apr 28 14:22:15 <zaheerm> if it comes earlier, you are happy :)
Apr 28 15:04:29 <WAHa_06x36> http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-il10n ..."il10n"?
Apr 28 15:05:11 <Fatal> wonder that the l stands for
Apr 28 15:05:30 <Fatal> s/that/what/
Apr 28 15:05:31 <infobot> Fatal meant: wonder what the l stands for
Apr 28 15:31:58 <Stskeeps> random question, am i too militant with all this open development stuff? :P
Apr 28 15:32:12 <DawnFoster> yes :)
Apr 28 15:32:23 <DawnFoster> we will get there
Apr 28 15:32:42 <DawnFoster> it takes time to merge code bases where some of it was open and some wasn't.
Apr 28 15:33:25 <DawnFoster> we've been pretty clear about the timelines for getting things opened up.
Apr 28 15:34:08 <DawnFoster> I know people are frustrated with the process (including me)
Apr 28 15:34:10 <mikeleib> everybody is eager, nobody is dragging thier feet
Apr 28 15:35:19 <DawnFoster> on the Intel side (can't speak for Nokia) the people working on MeeGo are also active contributors to many open source projects (linux kernel and more)
Apr 28 15:35:44 <DawnFoster> they really get the process of operating in the open and will get there.
Apr 28 15:36:58 <DawnFoster> right now, some of the discussions are proving to be more of a distraction
Apr 28 15:37:09 <DawnFoster> stskeeps: does this help?
Apr 28 15:38:30 <Termana> DawnFoster, I'm not exactly sure I would call the timeline very clear. In fact theres a big thread on the mailing list still discussing it. The topic seems to be avoided rather than made clear. At least in my opinion anyway
Apr 28 15:39:40 <mikeleib> /query tripzero
Apr 28 15:41:01 <DawnFoster> Termana: we've tried to be clear that the first release will be in May with some code being released earlier for people to start working on
Apr 28 15:41:53 <Termana> DawnFoster, Right, but I mean no one seems to of been real clear about when everything is suppose to be fully opened up for everyone to start participating on open development of the code
Apr 28 15:42:49 <DawnFoster> Right now, people can participate openly for the code that has been released - people are submitting patches to the mailing list and bugs
Apr 28 15:43:26 <DawnFoster> In May, when the code is released, people can participate openly on that code, too
Apr 28 15:43:59 <w00t_> "in the next few days, we will post the next steps leading to the first release of MeeGo in May" - from 'day one is here' post
Apr 28 15:44:03 <w00t_> did that ever actually happen?
Apr 28 15:44:18 <dazo> DawnFoster: so before the summer, it will be possible to flash Nokia N900 with MeeGo?
Apr 28 15:44:20 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: thanks for the view, hope i do seem to try to be understanding of the situation too. the problems i point at is things there should be no issue whatsoever working in the open
Apr 28 15:44:41 <tripzero> dazo: it's possible now. but not very useful
Apr 28 15:44:49 <slaine> DawnFoster: What wasn't made clear, imo, was that we'd not be allowed participate fully until MeeGo 1.0 was released. And that all the code wasn't going to be released until the software was deemed ready for consumption internally by Intel/Nokia project managers
Apr 28 15:44:50 <DawnFoster> dazo: you'll need to ask someone at Nokia
Apr 28 15:45:09 <Termana> Thats not open development. Thats "we'll give you a code drop and you can work on that code, and we'll keep this code to ourselves here and give you another code drop and let the cycle go round and round"
Apr 28 15:45:29 <w00t_> slaine: that actually was mentioned, though not worded in the best possible manner
Apr 28 15:45:49 <DawnFoster> Termana: please understand that this is a temporary situation, not a permanent one
Apr 28 15:45:52 <dazo> DawnFoster: fair enough, but the base platform would be ready for real day-to-day usage at that point?  Or will the UI stack need to be implemented first?
Apr 28 15:46:05 <slaine> We where led to believe that the missing projects would be opened in the short term, that it was logistical issues of merging things and having everyone on the same page
Apr 28 15:46:06 <DawnFoster> I remind people that I don't make the decisions on timelines
Apr 28 15:46:12 <slaine> w00t_: I disagree
Apr 28 15:46:32 <slaine> even last week it was answered that yes, we should be involved pre 1.0 release
Apr 28 15:46:41 <slaine> But that was never the intention it seems
Apr 28 15:46:46 <tripzero> dazo: iirc, it's supposed to be a development release first. so unless you like pain, it won't be good for day-to-day usage
Apr 28 15:46:49 <Termana> DawnFoster, Right, I understand this, but what I'm saying is I don't think people are quite a clear on whats going on and when this stops.
Apr 28 15:46:57 <w00t_> slaine: and you can get as involved as you like, provided you're not working on UX
Apr 28 15:46:58 <DawnFoster> we're doing the best that we can under tough circumstances, and we *will* get to a point where the development is happening completely in the open soon
Apr 28 15:47:16 <DawnFoster> I ask that people be a little patient with us - we're working very hard to make this happen
Apr 28 15:47:38 <dazo> tripzero: I'm willing to handle some pain ... but to loose basic phone and calendar features completely is not an option :)
Apr 28 15:47:42 <Stskeeps> and let's not try to shoot the messenger here :P
Apr 28 15:47:46 <w00t_> (meaning that yes, it is a bit of a damp squib, but it was mentioned back before day one that it was going to be pretty basic)
Apr 28 15:47:46 <DawnFoster> and we're being as honest as we can be by sharing what we know and trying to be as clear as possible about the timelines
Apr 28 15:48:03 <slaine> DawnFoster: I don't think that's entirely true
Apr 28 15:48:03 <DawnFoster> stskeeps: thanks :)
Apr 28 15:48:07 <slaine> we're getting mixed messages
Apr 28 15:48:39 <dazo> DawnFoster: tbh ... this merge is not a tiny merge ... and having just followed it from the side line, I do see it has moved quite a lot in reasonable time! ... So I'm looking fwd to the future of MeeGo!
Apr 28 15:48:45 <slaine> I think if it was clearly stated that we wouldn't get access to the fully opened code until after Intel/Nokia had prepared a 1.0 release, then we'd have alot less misundertandings, alot less noise
Apr 28 15:48:53 <DawnFoster> slaine: I know this has not been a smooth process, but we are human beings who aren't always as clear as we should be, but we're trying very hard to make things work
Apr 28 15:49:04 <slaine> nod
Apr 28 15:49:22 <Stskeeps> i guess we can all agree meego 1.0 will cure a lot of things
Apr 28 15:49:28 <w00t_> maybe
Apr 28 15:49:35 <dazo> Stskeeps: +1
Apr 28 15:49:37 <DawnFoster> where is data from Star Trek when you need him :)
Apr 28 15:49:40 <Termana> Wasn't Day 1 suppose to cure a lot of things? :P
Apr 28 15:49:51 <slaine> I would have been less disgruntled if something like Quim's email had come out around Day 1
Apr 28 15:51:08 <slaine> Having a clearer understanding on what the state of play is, I'm quite happy to sit it out and wait for 1.0
Apr 28 15:51:19 <slaine> I'd have preferred to have some involvement
Apr 28 15:51:55 <slaine> Don't forget, most of the netbook UX was already available for my patching and experimentation up to late February
Apr 28 15:51:58 <Stskeeps> okay, i'm officially confused with how meego kernel is run now.
Apr 28 15:52:47 <w00t_> apparantly it's not meego's kernel, it's intel's
Apr 28 15:53:03 <slaine> What have Novell got to do with MeeGo ?
Apr 28 15:53:21 <slaine> It seems that Novell are dictating how intel manage the kernel ???
Apr 28 15:53:34 <w00t_> no
Apr 28 15:54:08 <tripzero> who said anything about novell?
Apr 28 15:54:20 <w00t_> read the -dev ML
Apr 28 15:54:24 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: if it would be possible to get some kind of indication how the meego kernel process is run, and by who, it would be really great :/
Apr 28 15:54:46 <Stskeeps> because there's some really weird statements out there now.
Apr 28 15:55:16 <DawnFoster> The TSG today at 19:00 UTC will talk more about project structure.
Apr 28 15:55:28 <Stskeeps> thanks - looking forward to it
Apr 28 15:55:36 <DawnFoster> Details: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings
Apr 28 15:55:58 <Stskeeps> yep, saw agenda earlier, hoping this time it comes with content
Apr 28 15:56:14 <w00t_> on the bright side: at least it's staying on the agenda this time
Apr 28 15:56:25 <Termana> 4:30AM
Apr 28 15:56:33 <Termana> for me :P
Apr 28 15:56:44 <DawnFoster> Termana: where are you located?
Apr 28 15:56:53 <Termana> DawnFoster, South Australia
Apr 28 15:57:42 <slaine> I'll have to skip the TSG meeting tonight I'm afraid
Apr 28 15:57:43 * Stskeeps is looking forward to his vacation trip to denmark
Apr 28 15:58:05 <DawnFoster> Yeah, I'm not sure that I understand Greg's most recent comments about the kernel process. Let me ping Arjan and get him to chime in
Apr 28 15:58:51 <Stskeeps> i'll send a mail where i back off until project structure is more known, probably for the best
Apr 28 15:59:55 <Stskeeps> as having different perceptions about what the thing discussed is, never made for constructive discussion :)
Apr 28 16:09:17 <Termana> I'm going to head off to bed (nearly 2am here :P). Good night everyone
Apr 28 16:09:46 <slaine> night
Apr 28 16:11:47 <lcuk2> amazing short video showing the dancing around euro airspace as it rebooted: http://vimeo.com/11205494
Apr 28 16:13:59 <PostmanPechk> hi
Apr 28 16:57:32 <Stskeeps> so, what are people hacking on this minute?
Apr 28 16:59:02 <Zeikko> Pasta, tuna and cottage cheese, you?
Apr 28 16:59:11 <Stskeeps> i wish i was hacking at beef :P
Apr 28 16:59:42 <Zeikko> That'd be good, i'm on a protein hunt atm
Apr 28 16:59:44 <leinir> Not hacking as much as playing around with building behavior trees to describe the player in The Quantum Sea... relevant because Gluon, which TQS is being built with, will have a player on MeeGo ;)
Apr 28 17:01:01 * Stskeeps notes to himself printing a blog with a lot of comments does not save the rain forest.
Apr 28 17:01:50 <Zeikko> Why are you printing blog comments?
Apr 28 17:04:19 <slaine> Zeikko: To take on a road trip I'd guess
Apr 28 17:04:45 <Zeikko> would he go on a roadtrip without a laptop?
Apr 28 17:05:01 <Stskeeps> sure, laptops causes a lot of car-related deaths
Apr 28 17:05:01 <Stskeeps> :P
Apr 28 17:06:22 <Zeikko> umm, how come?
Apr 28 17:06:39 <Stskeeps> what happens when you have a laptop on your lap and you crash into a car? :P
Apr 28 17:06:45 <lcuk2> Zeikko, the laptop keeps sliding off the steering wheel when turning
Apr 28 17:06:54 <frals> lol lcuk2
Apr 28 17:07:22 <lcuk2> http://www.amazon.com/Mobile-Office-WM-01-Laptop-Steering/dp/B000IZGIA8
Apr 28 17:08:03 <lcuk2> (comments are classy on that one)
Apr 28 17:08:14 <Zeikko> What a heck, that's sick
Apr 28 17:08:50 <VDVsx> "I use it as a "mini-bar" when the friends and I go out to the bars"
Apr 28 17:08:51 <VDVsx> lol
Apr 28 17:19:43 <hans1> hi all
Apr 28 17:19:48 <hans1> jemand deutsch
Apr 28 17:20:34 <VDVsx> hans1, English please
Apr 28 17:21:05 <hans1> give es a german chatroom for maemo/meego ?
Apr 28 17:21:57 <Votan> i doubt it
Apr 28 17:22:33 <DawnFoster> We only have an English channel for the chatrooms.
Apr 28 17:22:50 <hans1> ok
Apr 28 17:22:56 <DawnFoster> hans1: Do you have a question about maemo / meego?
Apr 28 17:23:37 <hans1> im cann not english
Apr 28 17:26:15 <DawnFoster> Quick reminder that we have a MeeGo Technical Steering Group meeting in 1.5 hours (19:00 UTC). Agenda here: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings
Apr 28 17:27:14 <Cosmo|Uni> thanks DawnFoster
Apr 28 17:27:38 <Stskeeps> thanks - think the TSG meetings are actually running quite well by now, always a nice sync point
Apr 28 17:30:01 * GAN900 thinks some overhead should be figured in for when important discussions run over.
Apr 28 17:30:32 <Stskeeps> otoh, meetings that last forever kill the spirit
Apr 28 17:31:03 <Cosmo> like christmas
Apr 28 17:31:11 <Stskeeps> timeslotting might be good or even a vote on how important people consider items, so they get allocated more time ;)
Apr 28 17:31:28 <Stskeeps> but there's a lot of different forms things could be in
Apr 28 17:31:35 <DawnFoster> we have decided to keep the meeting to an hour
Apr 28 17:32:12 <DawnFoster> however, we need to do better about continuing the discussion on mailing lists or in upcoming TSG meetings
Apr 28 17:32:39 <w00t_> DawnFoster: sending minutes to the ML and kicking threads off there after the meeting perhaps?
Apr 28 17:33:10 * Cosmo is trying to steal a room from uni
Apr 28 17:33:25 <DawnFoster> I'd rather have the individual people attending who have remaining questions post their own questions in the mailing list
Apr 28 17:33:45 <DawnFoster> otherwise, I become the bottleneck
Apr 28 17:34:06 <Cosmo> you could take them from the mailing list and put them on a wiki page with numbers
Apr 28 17:34:13 <Cosmo> then add the answers to them after thhe meeting
Apr 28 17:34:29 <w00t_> I wasn't necessarily saying you :) but a link to the minutes to remind the forgetful (like me, who sometimes even forgets there *is* a meeting) might generate more discussion
Apr 28 17:34:32 <w00t_> I don't know
Apr 28 17:34:35 <DawnFoster> I'd still rather have questions in the mailing list
Apr 28 17:35:06 <DawnFoster> Ah, I'm trying to get better about posting the agenda to the mailing list, now I need to get better about posting the minutes after the meeting :)
Apr 28 17:35:56 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, don't gotta tell me twice. ;)
Apr 28 17:36:10 <Stskeeps> if need be i could probably hack the bot to send it's information somewhere
Apr 28 17:36:12 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, but I think adding 10 or 15 minutes if there's an involved discussion taking place couldn't hurt
Apr 28 17:36:19 <GeneralAntilles> Rather than just saying, "OK, times up!"
Apr 28 17:36:36 <w00t_> GeneralAntilles: the problem is that 10-15 more minutes drags on and on and on
Apr 28 17:36:41 <w00t_> (I speak from experience there unfortunately)
Apr 28 17:36:46 <DawnFoster> yeah, the first TSG was over 2 hours
Apr 28 17:37:07 <DawnFoster> it's just doesn't work to try to extend it because there is never a "good" time to cut people off
Apr 28 17:37:31 <DawnFoster> at least this way, we are being consistent, everyone knows when it will end, and people can plan meetings after the TSG :)
Apr 28 17:37:35 <w00t_> I once had a 6 hour meeting, that was not pleasant
Apr 28 17:38:10 <slaine> unfortunately, there's not been a lot of followup on the ml with questions
Apr 28 17:38:13 <DawnFoster> w00t_ ouch
Apr 28 17:38:21 <GeneralAntilles> I think it would be easier if we could get more engagement from the TSG on issues outside of the meetings, too.
Apr 28 17:38:22 <Stskeeps> we can all be happy this is not a telco.
Apr 28 17:38:37 <w00t_> Stskeeps: this was a face to face one where we flew most of the company together for it
Apr 28 17:38:48 <lcuk2> long meetings where people arent engaged is somewhat unrewarding - however once people get in a flow they can communicate and desimate information nicely and hours go on without noticing
Apr 28 17:38:49 <Stskeeps> w00t_: well, at least that includes dinner usually
Apr 28 17:38:52 <w00t_> (my previous employer, obviously)
Apr 28 17:39:02 <Cosmo> damn you firefox
Apr 28 17:39:08 <DawnFoster> generalantilles: I agree. I'm trying to get more participation from the TSG in the mailing lists
Apr 28 17:39:09 <w00t_> lcuk2: yes, that was the primary problem
Apr 28 17:39:30 <lcuk2> w00t_, yesterday for instance, the discussion about testing and build processes was rewarding
Apr 28 17:39:38 <w00t_> indeed
Apr 28 17:39:48 <w00t_> thiago is always good to talk to tho :)
Apr 28 17:40:19 <thiago> about?
Apr 28 17:40:23 <lcuk2> +1
Apr 28 17:40:30 <lcuk2> heh thiago
Apr 28 17:42:58 <w00t_> thiago: anything, but lcuk and I were just saying that last night's chat was productive and useful
Apr 28 17:43:01 <Cosmo> hi thiago
Apr 28 17:43:50 <slaine> DawnFoster: that would be good
Apr 28 17:44:12 * thiago needs to go home to be in time for the TSG meeting today
Apr 28 17:44:16 <slaine> I followed up my final question on the ml but go feedback 'til today from Quim
Apr 28 17:47:35 <Cosmo> hi slaine
Apr 28 17:47:46 <slaine> yo
Apr 28 17:55:53 <lcuk2> at the first tsg valhalla said his n900 was running the Maemo6 UI framework on qt on X.  he mentioned the widget gallery was running fine and that it was stable etc
Apr 28 17:56:11 <lcuk2> (quite stable at least)
Apr 28 17:57:20 <Stskeeps> and ze kvestion iz?
Apr 28 17:57:24 <lcuk2> are any of these packages available yet in an easy to test form?  i have seen the hyperUI example UI on my n900 (its in extras-devel)
Apr 28 17:57:32 <Stskeeps> qt is
Apr 28 17:57:38 <Stskeeps> demos are retrievable
Apr 28 17:57:59 <tripzero> hyberUI?
Apr 28 17:58:07 <lcuk2> thats not the same - somethng like hyperui can be easily installed on your fremantle system
Apr 28 17:58:08 <tripzero> hyper*UI?
Apr 28 17:58:42 <tripzero> what is this hyperUI of which you speak?
Apr 28 17:59:16 <lcuk2> tripzero, an example qt based UI that comes from symbian side afaik
Apr 28 17:59:30 <lcuk2> its got a dialer and sortof dashboard
Apr 28 17:59:33 <tripzero> ahh. okay.
Apr 28 17:59:53 <tripzero> so it's different than the harmattan UI stuff?
Apr 28 18:00:19 <lcuk2> well yeah in one important respect i think - thats available for download and play with
Apr 28 18:00:27 <thiago> hyperui is a the name of a demo
Apr 28 18:00:37 <thiago> see http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-labs/mobile-demos
Apr 28 18:00:43 <lcuk2> thats all we expect from meego tho
Apr 28 18:01:00 <lcuk2> i dont think anybody expects a fully working final product immediately
Apr 28 18:01:21 <tripzero> ah, the qt mobile-demos... okay. i've seen those :)
Apr 28 18:39:15 <Cosmo> 20 mins until the meeting
Apr 28 18:39:48 * Stskeeps should go shower before
Apr 28 18:41:24 <Cosmo> Stskeeps: yeah, we can smell you from here
Apr 28 18:43:17 <DawnFoster> OK, due to unforeseen logisitical challenges, we need to cancel the TSG
Apr 28 18:43:41 <DawnFoster> Valtteri is without Internet and Imad got stuck in a meeting with Intel executives.
Apr 28 18:43:51 <DawnFoster> We'll be pushing the agenda to next week
Apr 28 18:44:09 <DawnFoster> Sorry for all of the confusion and last minute cancelation.
Apr 28 18:44:17 <DawnFoster> I just got the phone call to cancel it.
Apr 28 18:44:53 <Stskeeps> would it be possible to push some of the structure info out possibly? unless it needs commentary by TSG so people put it in context
Apr 28 18:45:29 <Stskeeps> (as in, not now, but eventually, before next meeting)
Apr 28 18:45:50 <Stskeeps> if not, perfectly OK :)
Apr 28 18:46:38 <Cosmo> DawnFoster: isn't that what the N900 is for?
Apr 28 18:46:56 <Stskeeps> well, for the internet part, but for executives, doubt it :P
Apr 28 18:47:01 <Cosmo> sure Imad will be looking down a lot of the time instead of paying attention to the meeting
Apr 28 18:47:10 <Stskeeps> even though it is possible to attend with a n900 ;p
Apr 28 18:47:19 <V-PV> Valtteri without Internet connection :-) He should have N900 and this XChat works just fine...
Apr 28 18:47:36 <w00t_> cancelled? great
Apr 28 18:47:41 <w00t_> thiago_home: you didn't need to rush home after all
Apr 28 18:48:07 <thiago_home> w00t_: too late
Apr 28 18:48:09 <Stskeeps> instead, we'll be organising a pubcrawl
Apr 28 18:48:17 <thiago_home> I'm home
Apr 28 18:48:30 <w00t_> stskeeps++
Apr 28 18:48:38 <Cosmo> thiago_home: your nick gives it away :)
Apr 28 18:48:50 <lbt> hi tekojo
Apr 28 18:48:57 <w00t_> thiago_home: good thing too, otherwise i'd say you were an imposter :-)
Apr 28 18:48:57 <thiago_home> Cosmo: :-)
Apr 28 18:49:11 <lbt> no tsg tonight... now, if I had some IPs....
Apr 28 18:49:24 <Cosmo> DawnFoster: so if he got a phone call, he could have dial up internet?
Apr 28 18:49:26 <Cosmo> ^.^
Apr 28 18:50:13 <tekojo> hi lbt
Apr 28 18:50:21 <Cosmo> hey tekojo
Apr 28 18:50:22 * w00t_ waves at tekojo
Apr 28 18:50:28 <thiago_home> so topic update?
Apr 28 18:50:34 <w00t_> Stskeeps: ^^
Apr 28 18:50:35 <tekojo> hi all
Apr 28 18:50:58 <Cosmo> DawnFoster: in #meego-meeting set the topic to "meeting canceled, sorry"
Apr 28 18:50:59 <slaine> hmm, better get some coffee
Apr 28 18:51:32 <tekojo> no tsg, what's up?
Apr 28 18:51:53 <w00t_> one has no internet, the other sounds to be in the meeting from hell
Apr 28 18:51:56 <w00t_> apparantly
Apr 28 18:52:03 <lbt> [19:43] <DawnFoster> OK, due to unforeseen logisitical challenges, we need to cancel the TSG
Apr 28 18:52:04 <lbt> [19:43] <DawnFoster> Valtteri is without Internet and Imad got stuck in a meeting with Intel executives.
Apr 28 18:52:21 <tekojo> lbt :D sounds so like them
Apr 28 18:53:25 <lcuk> why dont we have a go at threshing out some of the points anyway - since people are in a frame of mind for talking :p
Apr 28 18:54:43 <lbt> lcuk: nah, we should prove quim wrong and compose haiku ;)
Apr 28 18:55:19 * thiago_home blames elisa.fi
Apr 28 18:59:09 <Stskeeps> what's wrong with going out in the snow to search for open wifi anyay ;p
Apr 28 18:59:11 <Stskeeps> way
Apr 28 19:00:39 <alexbez> Stskeeps,: one doesn't even need to go out and search for a public WiFi - mobile Internet from your cellphone works just fine in Finland
Apr 28 19:01:41 <Stskeeps> oh well - more time to do other things tonight then :)
Apr 28 19:01:46 <Cosmo> thiago_home: that's a very pretty website
Apr 28 19:02:09 <Cosmo> I can't read it bit it's still very pretty
Apr 28 19:02:50 * Cosmo spots "in english" at the bottom
Apr 28 19:03:22 <GeneralAntilles> Internet access isn't particularly difficult to come by these days.
Apr 28 19:03:43 <alexbez> Cosmo: pretty site is the only good thing about Elisa - one of the biggest telecom operators here  :-)
Apr 28 19:03:44 <Cosmo> sometimes I can pick up my friend's wireless and he lives down the road
Apr 28 19:03:51 <Stskeeps> nah, but if you're in a meeting with executives, you're not going to be playing bullshit bingo on your n900..
Apr 28 19:03:54 <Stskeeps> :P
Apr 28 19:04:05 <w00t_> (why on earth not?)
Apr 28 19:04:09 <RST38h> Moo, Sts
Apr 28 19:04:17 <alexbez> w00t_, exactly!
Apr 28 19:04:18 <RST38h> Sts: How is life?
Apr 28 19:04:26 <Stskeeps> RST38h: good good, travelling to denmark tomorrow
Apr 28 19:04:40 <RST38h> Ah, visiting home? =)
Apr 28 19:04:57 <Cosmo> alexbez: wait, ADSL broad band and cable tv?
Apr 28 19:05:05 <Stskeeps> well, my home is warsaw at the moment
Apr 28 19:05:05 <Stskeeps> :P
Apr 28 19:05:06 <Cosmo> but not cable broadband?
Apr 28 19:05:21 <DawnFoster> Stskeeps: have fun in Denmark
Apr 28 19:05:39 <alexbez> Cosmo: Elisa used to be a fixed telephone lines operator
Apr 28 19:06:00 <alexbez> Nowadays they have it all- IP TV, broadband, GSM
Apr 28 19:06:11 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: thanks - i'm getting the whole experience. rain all days while we're there
Apr 28 19:06:14 <Stskeeps> :P
Apr 28 19:07:00 <alexbez> Cosmo: they do have ADSL broadband, too. In fact, we are talking with you through one of those Elisa ADSL lines
Apr 28 19:07:14 <Cosmo> cool
Apr 28 19:07:31 <Cosmo> my ISP are alright as long as you never have to phone them
Apr 28 19:07:49 <alexbez> same here!
Apr 28 19:08:16 <RST38h> Stskeeps: how familiar...
Apr 28 19:08:21 <Cosmo> basically going "it's your fault that your line is broken in an area the public are not allowed"
Apr 28 19:08:22 <rontti> I don't know my ISP
Apr 28 19:08:52 <Cosmo> Hustler TV  	8,20 €/month
Apr 28 19:08:54 <Cosmo> >.>
Apr 28 19:08:54 <Cosmo> <.<
Apr 28 19:09:07 <alexbez> rontti: this is the best reference any ISP can have! When customers do not have to care who the heck is their ISP
Apr 28 19:09:09 <lcuk> Cosmo, are you surprised its so cheap, or so expensive?
Apr 28 19:09:13 <Cosmo> cheap
Apr 28 19:09:23 <Cosmo> Russia is 15 € / month
Apr 28 19:09:52 <lcuk> in soviet russia, models pay you to watch
Apr 28 19:09:54 <rontti> My employer will pay so I don't care
Apr 28 19:10:38 <Cosmo> even if they're paying for crap?
Apr 28 19:11:12 <rontti> My connection is good enough for me so its not crap
Apr 28 19:11:13 * alexbez wonders why his employer doesn't pay for him to watch Russian models?... perhaps, because I'm Russian?
Apr 28 19:11:45 <Cosmo> I assumed Russia was just a russian channel package
Apr 28 19:13:06 <rontti> Heh, my ISP seems to be nebula
Apr 28 19:13:13 * alexbez watches DawnFoster 's twits on his other laptop and enjoys a stereoscopic effect
Apr 28 19:14:00 <DawnFoster> alexbez: and now, I really am going to go take that walk during my newly free lunch hour :)
Apr 28 19:14:05 <lcuk> DawnFoster, how far can you get in your dinner walk?   i used to go wandering round local park at old spot
Apr 28 19:14:16 <lcuk> now its commonly round supermarket with tracy for dinner
Apr 28 19:14:22 <alexbez> DawnFoster: It's good to be you, indeed :-)
Apr 28 19:15:40 <DawnFoster> lcuk: depends. This is going to be a short walk around the building (maybe a mile). I like to do 3-4 mile runs over lunch, but I've slipped out of that habit recently.
Apr 28 19:16:10 <lcuk> wow even a mile walk around a building is big
Apr 28 19:16:31 <lcuk> you could almost do internal marathons :D
Apr 28 19:16:55 <lcuk> and are there enough people in your building to make a mile long looping conga line :D
Apr 28 19:17:01 <cure`> runs over lunch wow
Apr 28 19:17:18 <cure`> every day?
Apr 28 19:17:21 <DawnFoster> Well, it's actually a 5 building Intel campus that I walk around :)
Apr 28 19:17:53 <DawnFoster> cure: This summer I was  - I'm going to try to get back in the habit now that spring is approaching.
Apr 28 19:18:16 <DawnFoster> ok, no more questions. I'm walking away from my desk and out the door :)
Apr 28 19:18:26 <cure`> 3-4 miles a day is alot in a week
Apr 28 19:18:29 <cure`> run a bit myself
Apr 28 19:18:35 <lcuk> tekojo, are you keeping up with your running?  how have the 5finger toe boots done now the snow has gone?
Apr 28 19:19:01 <tekojo> lcuk yes, getting better all the time :)
Apr 28 19:19:20 <tekojo> I talked danielwilms into barefoot running too
Apr 28 19:19:34 <lcuk> i bet a run around the NRC would do a mile without going outside
Apr 28 19:19:34 <tekojo> but he has a proper background in running
Apr 28 19:19:37 <lcuk> haha cool
Apr 28 19:20:23 <tekojo> anyway, now I can do 10 km with 5:20 mins/km without being completely drained at the end
Apr 28 19:20:29 <rontti> I thought that for example bike was invented so that people don't have to run :)¨
Apr 28 19:20:43 <GAN900> DawnFoster, that's what N900s are for, you iPhone user!
Apr 28 19:20:45 <lcuk> wow tekojo impressive
Apr 28 19:20:59 <tekojo> rontti I'm going the other way round :)
Apr 28 19:21:00 <lcuk> do you just do road running, or cross country?
Apr 28 19:21:15 <tekojo> still road, the forest is really wet still :(
Apr 28 19:21:30 <Cosmo> tekojo: where are you?
Apr 28 19:21:37 <tekojo> Helsinki
Apr 28 19:21:38 <lcuk> my missus is doing a charity fun run this year again :)
Apr 28 19:22:01 <tekojo> those are good targets, keep people going
Apr 28 19:22:26 <Cosmo> after my assignments I want to bike more
Apr 28 19:22:27 <rontti> Now when blue busses won't drive in Helsinki running is quite good option
Apr 28 19:22:30 <lcuk> yeah indeed
Apr 28 19:22:31 <Cosmo> I like biking :)
Apr 28 19:22:59 <lcuk> Cosmo, biking is fun, but people give you funny looks when you ride down the corridors
Apr 28 19:23:13 <tekojo> Cosmo me too, the current way is to bike one morning to work, run home, run to work next morning and bike home
Apr 28 19:23:48 <Cosmo> I go onto google maps and plan out routes
Apr 28 19:23:59 <Cosmo> I'll do my regular route and then see how to extend it
Apr 28 19:24:13 <Cosmo> google maps doesn't tell you it's a bloody steep hill :(
Apr 28 19:24:49 <tekojo> :D
Apr 28 19:25:04 <lcuk> Cosmo, they should publish chuck norris's cycling routes
Apr 28 19:25:06 <Cosmo> coming down is fun but stopping is an issule
Apr 28 19:25:12 <lcuk> god forbid any mountain gets in his way
Apr 28 19:25:25 <Cosmo> especailly when the van coming towards you doesn't slow
Apr 28 19:30:41 <RST38h> You do know there is an OpenCycleMap?
Apr 28 19:31:04 <RST38h> and Maep even supports it
Apr 28 19:31:13 <puffin> bikely.com will show you elevation.
Apr 28 19:32:23 <Cosmo> I've done 3Km in 12 mins one time on the way home from uni
Apr 28 19:34:25 <tekojo> Good night
Apr 28 19:34:29 <Stskeeps> nite
Apr 28 19:38:20 <Cosmo> bye oh dammit
Apr 28 19:41:51 <brbrr> hi
Apr 28 19:42:13 <brbrr> how can i use liveusb to look on meego?
Apr 28 19:42:33 <Cosmo> hello
Apr 28 19:42:37 <Cosmo> how do you mean?
Apr 28 19:42:51 <Cosmo> you mean you want to put the liveusb image onto a usb stick to try it on your computer?
Apr 28 19:43:16 <brbrr> i had made lifeusb but when i load it and select to boot livecd it just start conslose and no gui
Apr 28 19:44:03 <brbrr> Cosmo:  yes. i did it. but when i load form usb stick it just drop me to console login screen
Apr 28 19:44:04 <Cosmo> that is correct
Apr 28 19:44:15 <Cosmo> the username is "root" and the password is "meego"
Apr 28 19:44:27 <brbrr> ok
Apr 28 19:44:36 <brbrr> and how to start gui?
Apr 28 19:44:40 <Cosmo> i think there is a way to install a GUI but I'm not sure
Apr 28 19:45:41 <brbrr> what comand i can use to start/install gui?
Apr 28 19:45:44 <Cosmo> sudo yum groupinstall "Development Tools" "Moblin Desktop Development"
Apr 28 19:46:01 <Cosmo> the latter is the desktop
Apr 28 19:46:07 <Cosmo> i think
Apr 28 19:46:57 <slaine> yum groupinstall "MeeGo Desktop" I'd imagine
Apr 28 19:47:35 <Cosmo> I'll try it on my VM
Apr 28 19:48:18 <slaine> Cosmo: there's nothing there atm to the best of my knowledge
Apr 28 19:48:25 <brbrr> so i need to download pakages for look on moblin?
Apr 28 19:48:50 <slaine> brbrr: what are you trying to do ?
Apr 28 19:49:31 <brbrr> slaine: i try to look from liveusb on meego gui.just try it
Apr 28 19:49:44 <slaine> brbrr: There is none
Apr 28 19:49:54 <slaine> It's not available in public yet
Apr 28 19:50:01 <slaine> the GUI that is
Apr 28 19:50:02 <brbrr> but moblin&
Apr 28 19:50:05 <brbrr> ?
Apr 28 19:50:16 <slaine> meego != moblin
Apr 28 19:50:27 <slaine> it's moblin + maemo
Apr 28 19:50:44 <slaine> GUI will probably be the same from moblin, but further refined, at least on the netbook release
Apr 28 19:51:04 <Cosmo> I think 1.0 will have the moblin interface since they are working on the core / backend
Apr 28 19:51:23 <slaine> What would have been Moblin 2.2
Apr 28 19:51:34 <brbrr> so at this moment meego haven any GUI?
Apr 28 19:51:42 <brbrr> as default
Apr 28 19:52:06 <Stskeeps> xterm's a gui
Apr 28 19:52:06 <Stskeeps> :P
Apr 28 19:52:27 <brbrr> nice :D
Apr 28 19:53:00 <slaine> Stskeeps: last I tried, xterm didn't even work on the x86 release
Apr 28 19:53:05 <Cosmo> I go
Apr 28 19:53:11 <DawnFoster> lcuk: btw, I was wrong, that big loop around the Intel campus is 1.6 miles. It was a nice walk :)
Apr 28 19:53:13 <Cosmo> I forgot, meego doesn't like my VM
Apr 28 19:53:13 <slaine> and i don't think they've updated the released images
Apr 28 19:53:17 <brbrr> then will wait for future releases
Apr 28 19:53:46 <slaine> brbrr, hopefully there'll be something in the next 33 days ;)
Apr 28 19:54:03 <slaine> Right, I'm gonna head home, been here far far too long
Apr 28 19:54:26 <slaine> catch you all tomorrow, except Stskeeps, 'cause he's on a road trip
Apr 28 19:54:32 <Cosmo> 9pm already
Apr 28 19:54:54 <slaine> I'm gonna miss the bus, damn
Apr 28 19:54:57 <Corsac> road trips rock
Apr 28 19:55:04 <brbrr> 33 looks not so bad. but realy now is too many netbook oriented distros
Apr 28 19:55:06 <lcuk> haha DawnFoster
Apr 28 19:55:25 <lcuk> whats the official name for the little meego characters?
Apr 28 19:55:41 <thiago_home> "dudes"
Apr 28 19:55:43 <lcuk> i think of them as meegoids
Apr 28 19:55:44 <thiago_home> :-P
Apr 28 19:55:45 <brbrr> ;D
Apr 28 19:55:56 <lcuk> thiago_home, i just had someone say they have to be female
Apr 28 19:55:59 <lcuk> so dudes doesnt work
Apr 28 19:56:07 <thiago_home> dudettes?
Apr 28 19:56:17 <thiago_home> how about the one with eyepatch?
Apr 28 19:56:24 <lcuk> generic term required
Apr 28 19:56:34 <lcuk> "animated 3d meego characters" is a bit long winded
Apr 28 19:56:39 <lcuk> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=632078#post632078
Apr 28 19:56:48 <lcuk> i cross posted what im trying to do on meego and maemo
Apr 28 19:57:00 <lcuk> so far i nthe 5 minutes since posting on maemo ive had 100% more response!!!
Apr 28 20:34:04 <w00t_> Jaffa: thankyou, for being one of the few sane people on that ML today!
Apr 28 20:34:05 <w00t_> :)
Apr 28 20:34:18 <Jaffa> :)
Apr 28 20:34:38 <Jaffa> w00t_: The threrad didn't seem to be going anywhere sensible :)
Apr 28 20:35:40 * Jaffa had had a feew drinks and is typing over sSH on a dodgy 2.5G connection.
Apr 28 20:35:57 <w00t_> which is responsible for the typos? *g*
Apr 28 20:37:37 <Jaffa> Both. Honest.
Apr 28 20:37:57 <Jaffa> Oh, and on an N900 keyboard!
Apr 28 20:43:17 <lbt> Jaffa: nod... +1
Apr 28 20:44:28 <Jaffa> Two positive replies on meego-* in one day. I must be cooking on gas...
Apr 28 20:45:37 * lbt is pleased that there's movement on the RWG.... but I still think "Surrounds" is a nice name
Apr 28 20:45:56 <thiago_home> Souds?
Apr 28 20:46:10 <lbt> Souds?
Apr 28 20:46:35 <Cosmo> cheesecake?
Apr 28 20:46:52 <Jaffa> Jemima?
Apr 28 20:46:53 * lbt wonders if thiago_home has got an N900...
Apr 28 20:47:04 <Jaffa> Is this word association? ;)
Apr 28 20:47:08 <thiago_home> I meant Sounds
Apr 28 20:47:11 <Jartza> I have N800 :)
Apr 28 20:47:30 <lbt> thiago_home: I wonder if you misread Surrounds
Apr 28 20:47:53 <lbt> ah...
Apr 28 20:47:54 <thiago_home> Surrounds Sounds :-P
Apr 28 20:48:00 <lbt> <groan>
Apr 28 20:48:17 <lbt> when I realised I was hoping it would never be said..
Apr 28 20:48:18 <Jaffa> Oh dear.
Apr 28 20:48:39 <lbt> in protest GAN900 ?
Apr 28 20:48:44 <w00t_> hahah
Apr 28 20:49:20 <GeneralAntilles> Switching to the irssi proxy. . . .
Apr 28 20:49:43 * GeneralAntilles needs to move the proxy to another machine.
Apr 28 20:53:23 <lbt> shit
Apr 28 20:53:47 <lbt> I think I just took down the eth0 on a remote host
Apr 28 20:53:59 <w00t_> I hate when that happens
Apr 28 20:54:38 <lbt> what time is it in finland...
Apr 28 20:54:54 <lbt> I wonder if they have alarms and pagers....
Apr 28 20:55:12 <w00t_> that kind of server, eh
Apr 28 20:55:23 <lbt> it wasn't commissioned yet
Apr 28 20:55:36 <thiago_home> 23:55 now
Apr 28 20:57:54 <lbt> ah well, I'll do something else then
Apr 28 21:13:44 <DawnFoster> interesting http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/28/hp-buys-palm/
Apr 28 21:14:38 <Cosmo> :o
Apr 28 21:28:32 <jrayhawk> This means we need to trick bdale into porting Debian to the Pre.
Apr 28 21:48:23 <Cosmo> there's a magical way measure how much memory is used by a program?
Apr 28 21:48:37 <thiago_home> no
Apr 28 21:48:57 <thiago_home> modern VM systems are far too complex
Apr 28 21:49:06 <thiago_home> there isn't a number of "how much memory" a program uses
Apr 28 21:49:13 <Cosmo> VM?
Apr 28 21:49:19 <Cosmo> I was talking about a program I just compiled
Apr 28 21:49:21 <thiago_home> Virtual Memory
Apr 28 21:49:25 <thiago_home> yes
Apr 28 21:49:36 <Cosmo> I was thinking virtual machine
Apr 28 21:49:50 <Cosmo> I'm using top
Apr 28 21:49:53 <thiago_home> you can measure the total virtual addressable memory
Apr 28 21:50:07 <thiago_home> you can measure the resident set size (the amount of RAM used)
Apr 28 21:50:15 <thiago_home> those both include shared memory, mapped files, etc.
Apr 28 21:50:29 <thiago_home> you can measure heap usage, you can measure private (non-shared) memory
Apr 28 21:50:33 <thiago_home> what do you want?
Apr 28 21:50:56 <Cosmo> to test that my destructor works and deallocates memory
Apr 28 21:51:02 <thiago_home> ah
Apr 28 21:51:09 <thiago_home> then you want valgrind --leak-check=full
Apr 28 21:51:13 <Cosmo> thank you
Apr 28 21:51:22 <thiago_home> you don't want to measure memory, you want to check for leaks :-)
Apr 28 21:51:26 <Cosmo> I knew it began with a V
Apr 28 21:53:11 <Cosmo> don't I have to compile it with a special flag?
Apr 28 21:54:41 <thiago_home> no
Apr 28 21:55:18 <Cosmo> thank you
Apr 28 21:58:10 <Cosmo> erm
Apr 28 21:58:17 <Cosmo> maybe i shouldn't test it on my server
Apr 28 21:58:22 <Cosmo> if it leaks it wills up the RAM
Apr 28 21:58:33 <Cosmo> take up*
Apr 28 21:58:49 <Cosmo> and then the system will come to a hault
Apr 28 21:59:08 <jrayhawk> The OOM killer will take care of it at that point.
Apr 28 21:59:12 <thiago_home> the OOM killer will do something
Apr 28 21:59:15 <Cosmo> ?
Apr 28 21:59:23 <thiago_home> you can also limit the amount of addressable memory. See man ulimit.
Apr 28 21:59:41 <jrayhawk> http://linux-mm.org/OOM_Killer
Apr 28 22:00:00 <Cosmo> damn
Apr 28 22:00:16 <Cosmo> just throught, I have a constructor in a sub class
Apr 28 22:00:22 <Cosmo> but it';s not ran in the super class
Apr 28 22:01:08 <thiago_home> constructors are run from least derived to most derived
Apr 28 22:01:46 <thiago_home> depth-first, pre-order graph walking
Apr 28 22:01:46 <Cosmo> *destructor
Apr 28 22:01:54 <thiago_home> destructors are run in the inverse order
Apr 28 22:01:57 <Cosmo> ==8385== LEAK SUMMARY:
Apr 28 22:01:57 <Cosmo> ==8385==    definitely lost: 28 bytes in 1 blocks.
Apr 28 22:01:57 <Cosmo> ==8385==    indirectly lost: 621 bytes in 22 blocks.
Apr 28 22:02:50 <thiago_home> valgrind should have told you where those 28 bytes were allocated
Apr 28 22:02:57 <thiago_home> it doesn't tell you where they were leaked, though
Apr 28 22:03:34 <Cosmo> I think it was at the end
Apr 28 22:04:14 <Cosmo> damn, where is my metal class map
Apr 28 22:07:13 <Cosmo> so memory leakage is bad, but the OS will deal with it instead of crashing?
Apr 28 22:08:15 <thiago_home> well, depends
Apr 28 22:08:33 <thiago_home> a leakage can be something that causes a long-running program to balloon in size
Apr 28 22:08:37 <lcuk> Cosmo, whats the operating system to do with leaky memory from your own app?  can't you tidy up after yourself?  how would it know difference between leaky code and high use?
Apr 28 22:08:50 <thiago_home> you will have adverse effects, because it will cause swapping
Apr 28 22:09:05 <Cosmo> lcuk: I'm dealing with it]
Apr 28 22:09:11 <thiago_home> not all leaks are like that
Apr 28 22:09:29 <thiago_home> there are leaks that only leaked because the app exited. They aren't real leaks.
Apr 28 22:09:46 <Cosmo> okay I have fake leaks
Apr 28 22:36:39 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
Apr 28 22:43:46 <Cosmo> say I have: exitClass *temp = nextExit
Apr 28 22:44:08 <Cosmo> is there a way i could delete that variable and then return temp witrh another class
Apr 28 22:44:16 <Cosmo> so redefine it as   nonplayingClass *temp = firstPerson;
Apr 28 22:57:01 <Cosmo> is there a valgrind for windows?
Apr 28 23:47:30 * Cosmo gets in bed, realises he's left his drink in the kitchen then gets out of bed
Apr 29 00:13:40 <Jartza> what's up?
Apr 29 00:25:14 <dl9pf> can I disable omap wdt on kernel cmdline somwhow ?
Apr 29 00:34:20 * Cosmo dances
Apr 29 00:34:28 <Cosmo> I only lose 14 blocks of memory now, not 22
Apr 29 00:34:32 <Cosmo> so my new code worek
Apr 29 00:43:56 <Cosmo> ==8663==  Address 0x427d7c0 is 24 bytes inside a block of size 28 free'd
Apr 29 00:44:00 <Cosmo> how bad is this?
Apr 29 00:44:40 <b-man17> what is that from?
Apr 29 00:44:48 <Cosmo> valgruad
Apr 29 00:45:59 <Cosmo> *valgrind
Apr 29 00:46:53 <b-man17> ah
Apr 29 00:47:10 <b-man17> hmm
Apr 29 00:47:37 <Cosmo> I'm pleased that I don't have a memory leak tho
Apr 29 00:55:15 * Cosmo flushes his cache :)
Apr 29 00:55:42 <Cosmo> week 11 of 12 we get told that our programs will almost certainly have a memory leak
Apr 29 00:56:03 <Cosmo> so the longer we work on them the more RAM it will eat
Apr 29 00:56:38 <Cosmo> however my program leaks abnout 650 bytes per go
Apr 29 01:00:14 <Cosmo> cyas
Apr 29 01:00:39 <Cosmo> b-man17: nothing's on fire so I can figure it out another day :)
Apr 29 01:01:55 <Jartza> Cosmo: you are freeing the same block twice?
Apr 29 01:08:13 <dl9pf> did someone test beagleboard already  ?
Apr 29 01:25:01 <SharonG> I went
Apr 29 02:46:52 <Stskeeps> morning
Apr 29 02:48:39 <III> morning Stskeeps
Apr 29 02:54:44 * Stskeeps is on n900 on way to .dk
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 29 02:59:56 2010