**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 04 03:00:01 2010
May 04 06:05:57 <Guest88263> is there any document about how to setup the OBS for the meego? tks
May 04 06:06:50 <pupnik> what's OBS?
May 04 06:08:25 <tekojo> Guest88263: not that I know of
May 04 06:08:58 <Guest88263> OBS is short for openSUSE Build Service
May 04 06:13:59 <pupnik> The pipeline will consist of: a community build system (OBS), a community repository, application
May 04 06:14:02 <pupnik> clients for MeeGo devices, the web backend for the clients and the backend that manages the repo
May 04 06:18:01 <tekojo> pupinik, yes that is the idea
May 04 06:18:09 <pupnik> Guest88263: here's some related discussion http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.meego.devel/1352
May 04 06:18:18 <pupnik> well i'm quoting you :D
May 04 06:20:04 <Guest88263> thk
May 04 08:00:01 <pinchartl> hi
May 04 08:00:12 <thiago> hi
May 04 08:35:24 <maclaver> hi
May 04 08:36:06 <maclaver> Thiago, do you know if Qt Creator has any constraints on the documentation format for help files etc.?
May 04 08:39:56 <thiago> maclaver: qch containing HTML only
May 04 08:40:24 <lcuk> thiago, where should i file bugs in the qt nokia sdk beta?
May 04 08:40:40 <thiago> lcuk: bugreports.qt.nokia.com, component Nokia Qt SDK Installer
May 04 08:40:49 <lcuk> ok ta :)
May 04 08:41:03 <maclaver> lcuk, what problems are you having with it?
May 04 08:42:22 <lcuk> maclaver, wasnt a problem per say, but on the installer EULA, theres a couple of callout links to list the OSS licenses and the UELA specifics themselves - whilst installing i clicked them to read and got a blank editor - thereby allowing me to accept the EULA in all its terms without ever reading or being knowedgable about the advanced portions thereof
May 04 08:42:55 <maclaver> Oops, good thing it's a beta.
May 04 08:43:27 <lcuk> yeah :) and whilst there are terms and conditions to it, at present i have a fully installed and accepted only a bare minimum EULA
May 04 08:43:40 <lcuk> which obviously isnt the desired effect
May 04 08:44:26 <lcuk> mind you maclaver i guess im probably one of the first to try and read them ;)
May 04 08:45:06 <maclaver> True (working for Nokia I do not really have to).
May 04 08:45:16 <lcuk> sure you do
May 04 08:45:23 <lcuk> everyone has rules :)
May 04 08:45:50 <lcuk> and working for a company should make you even more observent of them :P
May 04 08:49:53 <maclaver> :( Ok, I will make a point of reading them (when they are available).
May 04 08:50:06 <maclaver> Not that I like reading the legalese....
May 04 08:50:57 <lcuk> maclaver, nobody does
May 04 08:51:08 <lcuk> legalese should be put to music
May 04 08:51:15 <lcuk> if the lawyers can sing it, it can be included
May 04 08:52:39 <maclaver> (Maybe not, a bunch of tone-deaf lawyers singing the Microsoft EULA could be a traumatic experience).
May 04 08:54:15 <lcuk> my point exactly
May 04 08:54:42 <lcuk> rewrite them until they are tuneful and memorable :D
May 04 08:57:08 <markatto> I don't think that lawyers much care for our ears
May 04 08:57:31 <markatto> they would be unlikely to change their stuff
May 04 08:58:41 <markatto> I love how they always define things at the beginning
May 04 08:58:52 <markatto> "yes" is defined to mean no.
May 04 09:01:13 <lcuk> thiago, maclaver http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTSDK-24 :)
May 04 09:08:16 <Stskeeps> morning
May 04 09:09:26 <Corsac> hey Sts
May 04 10:40:33 <slaine> So
May 04 10:40:41 <slaine> how's everyone doing
May 04 10:43:08 <slaine> nice a quiet I see
May 04 10:49:46 <Stskeeps> yeah, returning from denmark atm
May 04 10:49:51 <Stskeeps> 4 hours to go
May 04 10:54:29 <slaine> Stskeeps: was it a good break ?
May 04 10:55:48 <Stskeeps> slaine: yeah, cleared my head and now got a craving to code
May 04 10:56:16 <slaine> cool
May 04 12:46:38 <TheBootroo> hello ! any date for the meego 1.0 for N900 release ?
May 04 12:48:23 <Stskeeps> sometime in may i guess
May 04 12:48:36 <TheBootroo> "Also, we are planning to enable dual booting of Maemo 5 and MeeGo for the upcoming release. So that will be offered as 3rd way to setup MeeGo to N900, including the existing “native” MeeGo only on N900 and chroot based MeeGo on Maemo 5 setups. Taking the dual boot mode into use likely includes upgrade to Maemo5 kernel as well, but that should not be big issue in the process of enabling that."
May 04 12:48:53 <TheBootroo> is this meaning we need Maemo5 1.2 to dual boot meego ?
May 04 12:49:44 <Stskeeps> nah
May 04 12:50:02 <Stskeeps> kexec kernels exist for pr1.1.1
May 04 12:50:12 <TheBootroo> source : http://www.nokian900applications.com/dual-boot-with-meego-and-maemo-5-in-nokia-n900/
May 04 12:50:40 <TheBootroo> yes but it requires manual compilation of kernel + patches + flashing to work in 1.1.1 ?
May 04 12:50:41 <Stskeeps> yes, i know
May 04 12:50:54 <Stskeeps> hopefully not
May 04 12:51:12 <TheBootroo> does it work with Titan's kenrel ?
May 04 12:51:19 <TheBootroo> *kernel
May 04 12:51:27 <Stskeeps> B[B[Byes
May 04 12:51:41 <TheBootroo> ok
May 04 12:51:44 <TheBootroo> thats cool
May 04 12:52:10 <TheBootroo> will the preview meego release be upgraded on the air to the 1.0 release ?
May 04 12:52:51 <Stskeeps> hard expectations there :)
May 04 12:52:58 <slaine> TheBootroo: probably better to fresh install
May 04 12:53:03 <TheBootroo> ok
May 04 12:53:14 <slaine> current image is for testing infrastructure and drivers
May 04 12:53:20 <TheBootroo> so RPM is really far behind APT ?
May 04 12:53:25 <slaine> No
May 04 12:53:32 <TheBootroo> cause maemo CAN be updated OTA ....
May 04 12:53:35 <Stskeeps> TheBootroo: they're not comparable
May 04 12:53:46 <TheBootroo> thats what i said
May 04 12:53:48 <Stskeeps> rpm is comparable with dpkg
May 04 12:53:56 <Stskeeps> and yum/zypper with apt
May 04 12:54:16 <TheBootroo> and what tool is used in meego ?  yum, apt-rpm ?
May 04 12:54:21 <slaine> yum
May 04 12:54:26 <TheBootroo> :-'
May 04 12:54:32 <TheBootroo> :-(
May 04 12:54:50 <suihkulokki> mmh.. I thought it was going to be zypper?
May 04 12:54:57 <Stskeeps> slaine: not sure which one actually is supposed to be used
May 04 12:55:01 <TheBootroo> i would prefer apt-rpm
May 04 12:55:18 <Stskeeps> zypper makes more sense
May 04 12:55:18 <slaine> you can upgrade over the air if you wish, but there's a high chance that a lot of pre/post processing that gets covered by the kickstart scripts will be missing
May 04 12:55:30 <slaine> never used zypper
May 04 12:55:58 <slaine> Moblin used yum, so I'm basing it on that
May 04 12:56:04 <TheBootroo> at least, does yum have a smaller cache disk consumption ? cause maemo extra + devel + testing  =  60 MB cache file !!
May 04 12:56:19 <slaine> won't be the same repo
May 04 12:57:48 <suihkulokki> iirc maemo extras repos cache is so big since it's poorly organized
May 04 12:58:06 <TheBootroo> and will DuiHome be compilable on Meego 1.0 ? cause i tried to compile it on my Ubuntu but it failed ...;
May 04 12:58:07 <suihkulokki> ie. the old versions stick in the package database indefinetly
May 04 12:59:50 <slaine> TheBootroo: You'll find out this and much more, when meego 1.0 is actually released
May 04 13:00:14 <slaine> we're still in the dark to a lot of the basics
May 04 13:00:21 <TheBootroo> i can't wait  :-|
May 04 13:01:03 <TheBootroo> i'm a big Nokia/Qt/Maemo/Meego/Linux/N900 fan !!!
May 04 13:01:41 * thiago OTA-upgraded his N900 last week
May 04 13:01:52 <thiago> I had to figure out that I needed to free up some disk space though
May 04 13:01:52 <slaine> my enthusiasm has waned somewhat with the info/public-progress drought. Though I'm sure I'll get excited once it's out.
May 04 13:05:10 <Stskeeps> i'm sure theres material for a couple of blog posts about this process and lessons learned when things are better
May 04 13:08:36 * Stskeeps can see a lot of things done right but is a bit bugged when things could be a lot better without big effort :
May 04 13:08:39 <Stskeeps> :)
May 04 13:09:09 <TheBootroo> why is there nothing in the Handheld UX part of the meego gitorious repos ?
May 04 13:09:29 <TheBootroo> will the 1.0 release have no UX ?
May 04 13:09:35 <thiago> it will
May 04 13:09:47 <thiago> but not for handheld, I think
May 04 13:09:53 <Stskeeps> so for now, i hope the best on the tendancies i see
May 04 13:10:01 <TheBootroo> have one ? ok but not the moblin netbook one i hope ?
May 04 13:10:43 * TheBootroo doesnt see files in Netbook UX nor
May 04 13:10:59 <Stskeeps> thiago: no ux for handset? ..
May 04 13:11:12 <Stskeeps> are they trying to kill this project?
May 04 13:19:46 <TheBootroo> qt messaging and qcontact are working in meego ?
May 04 13:20:04 <pinchartl> does anyone know if the May Meego release for the N900 is supposed to include support for the camera ?
May 04 13:20:25 <Stskeeps> pinchartl: what kind of support would you like?
May 04 13:20:40 <pinchartl> Stskeeps: the ability to use the camera from userspace applications
May 04 13:20:55 <Stskeeps> pinchartl: ie, v4lv2?
May 04 13:20:58 <TheBootroo> it would be a fully integrated release, according to this : http://www.nokian900applications.com/dual-boot-with-meego-and-maemo-5-in-nokia-n900/
May 04 13:21:14 <pinchartl> Stskeeps: yes, with auto white balance, auto exposure, ...
May 04 13:21:30 <pinchartl> TheBootroo: I've read that, but the camera isn't mentioned. it could be included in the "..." thoguh
May 04 13:21:35 <pinchartl> s/thoguh/though/
May 04 13:21:36 <infobot> pinchartl meant: TheBootroo: I've read that, but the camera isn't mentioned. it could be included in the "..." though
May 04 13:21:51 <pinchartl> nice bot :-)
May 04 13:23:25 <TheBootroo> yes really nice bot  O.o
May 04 13:24:30 <pinchartl> would be better if he could answer my question ;-)
May 04 13:25:39 <TheBootroo> :D
May 04 13:25:46 <TheBootroo> mine too
May 04 13:26:44 <pinchartl> is anyone here part of one of the adaptation teams working on the meego on n900 project ?
May 04 13:26:49 <Stskeeps> pinchartl: not sure, but the idea is full hw support over time i guess
May 04 13:27:11 <pupnik> ty for the link TheBootroo
May 04 13:29:01 <TheBootroo> ur welcome ;-)
May 04 13:29:52 <TheBootroo> i hardly foudn orginal version cause french google translation is really bad, and i really prefer english one even if i'm french ;-)
May 04 13:35:38 <TheBootroo> will meego be a good gaming platform, with Qt3D support and OpenGL acceleration ?
May 04 13:38:24 <TheBootroo> i mean, are we goign to get many beautiful full 3D games like 'Asphalt' or 'GTA' on iPhone ?
May 04 13:39:02 <TheBootroo> s/goign/going
May 04 13:39:04 <PolarFox> TheBootroo: You really haven't seen Maemo 3D stuff? ;)
May 04 13:39:30 <PolarFox> I don't think that Meego is going to be a downgrade from Maemo..
May 04 13:39:40 <TheBootroo> yes i saw but excepted Bounce and TuxRacer, there are no 3D games
May 04 13:40:02 <TheBootroo> and no 'Need for speed' or 'Asphalt' ....
May 04 13:40:06 <Termana> TheBootroo, EA Games and Gameloft have said they support MeeGo
May 04 13:40:17 <TheBootroo> source ?
May 04 13:40:38 <slaine> linux foundation
May 04 13:40:38 <PolarFox> TheBootroo: How do you define 3D game then, if Bounce Evolution isn't one.. :)
May 04 13:40:53 <X-Fade> TheBootroo: With PR1.2 on Maemo, OVI finally seem to have fixed their payment issue and more games will be available.
May 04 13:40:56 <Termana> TheBootroo, eh, hold on a tic if you really need a link
May 04 13:41:10 <X-Fade> Looking forward to the 3d rollercoaster one.
May 04 13:41:32 <PolarFox> TheBootroo: http://linux-foundation.org/weblogs/press/2010/04/12/public-support-for-the-meego-project/
May 04 13:41:37 <TheBootroo> bounce is almost the only real 3D game for maemo5 ...
May 04 13:41:52 <Termana> PolarFox, thanks for finding the link, so I didn't have to :P
May 04 13:41:59 <Termana> TheBootroo, PolarFox's link ^^
May 04 13:42:06 <slaine> I was just about to paste it, damn he's fast
May 04 13:42:16 <TheBootroo> thx 4 the link
May 04 13:42:17 <PolarFox> Yeah, because there has been a shortage in payment system for maemo5.. They don't make those games for free you know ;)
May 04 13:42:30 <PolarFox> slaine: I have a black belt in Google search.
May 04 13:42:51 <PolarFox> slaine: and 3 monitors to work with..
May 04 13:42:52 <slaine> Wow, you can actually google for information like that ?
May 04 13:43:01 <slaine> Who know
May 04 13:43:03 <slaine> ;)
May 04 13:43:11 <slaine> s/know/knew
May 04 13:43:31 <TheBootroo> lmgtfy.com  :D lol
May 04 13:43:44 <PolarFox> slaine: People usually expect links in irc, no one likes to googling. Except me
May 04 13:44:18 <slaine> irc is a direct search of peoples brains.
May 04 13:44:32 <slaine> most of them are off line though :P
May 04 13:44:49 <jusliukk> there is still the optical link which introduces latency
May 04 13:45:06 <PolarFox> TheBootroo: Oh, I can run Quake3 engine on my N900. How is that for a 3D game for you? :)
May 04 13:45:34 <TheBootroo> yes
May 04 13:45:51 <TheBootroo> but what i mean is that there is too few 3D games
May 04 13:45:59 <pupnik> tuxracer is 3d
May 04 13:46:05 <TheBootroo> no not at all, but too few
May 04 13:46:09 <TheBootroo> ;-)
May 04 13:46:36 <PolarFox> TheBootroo: But you asked if MeeGo is going to be a good platform for games.. :)
May 04 13:46:40 <TheBootroo> pupnik: tuwracer is good but too few maps,
May 04 13:47:09 <pupnik> that is kind of a meaningless statement
May 04 13:47:15 <pupnik> "too few"
May 04 13:47:22 <slaine> Most meego hardware won't be an ideal 3d platform anyways
May 04 13:47:33 <TheBootroo> 5 maybe 6 maps is 'few' for me ;-)
May 04 13:47:38 <slaine> my 945GME isn't exactly a screamer with 3D performance
May 04 13:47:53 <slaine> it's good enough for compositing effects on a desktop though
May 04 13:48:17 <slaine> (actually, I think it plays tuxracer just fine, but why would I want to play that on a netbook)
May 04 13:48:17 <TheBootroo> slaine: i'm mainly speaking about Meego For N900
May 04 13:48:28 <pupnik> also a 3" screen doesn't work with many game types, imo.  the fps games are particularly unsatisfying.
May 04 13:48:44 <slaine> TheBootroo: well, meego will run on a myriad devices, so your questions is even more diluted then.
May 04 13:48:49 <Termana> And then theres a new problem with MeeGo that I've seen no one talk about
May 04 13:49:08 <slaine> Termana: which is ?
May 04 13:49:38 <TheBootroo> ?
May 04 13:49:49 <Termana> AFAIK, Intel is going to have their little App Store type thing for x86, and Nokia will have the Ovi Store, but will other ARM based manufactures get the Ovi Store to? Otherwise, watch out you may be in for App Store fragmentation
May 04 13:49:50 <slaine> He can't talk about it
May 04 13:50:06 <Stskeeps> Termana: their headache
May 04 13:50:23 <slaine> Termana: the whole point of their design of the app store is that it's fragmented
May 04 13:50:49 <Termana> Stskeeps, Their headache will become end user problems
May 04 13:51:15 <slaine> however, it's my understanding that Intel will provide support for setting up a vendor app store (hosted ???)
May 04 13:51:30 <TheBootroo> mine too
May 04 13:51:33 <slaine> Termana: thats the price of freedom to a certain degree
May 04 13:51:56 <Zeikko> Get rid of the OS fragmention and introduce store fragmentation
May 04 13:52:07 <Termana> slaine, I don't think you understand what I mean by fragmentation. I mean the Ovi Store will only have a certain app in it, another manufactures app store will only have some certain app in it, no one will be able to access each others app stores that have certain apps in them
May 04 13:52:28 <slaine> Yes, that's what I understood
May 04 13:52:39 <TheBootroo> just add repos no ?
May 04 13:52:49 <slaine> I'm sure Nokia wouldn't want LG phones having access to the Ovi store
May 04 13:52:54 <TheBootroo> they will all be supported and compliants no ?
May 04 13:53:12 <Termana> TheBootroo, not if the app store is not setup like a traditional repo - which it wouldn't be.
May 04 13:53:33 <Termana> AFAIK - the current Ovi Store has you just download a .deb file
May 04 13:53:38 <TheBootroo> and will meego have traditionnal repos or just fuckin stores ?
May 04 13:53:49 <slaine> both
May 04 13:53:54 <TigerTael> ;I
May 04 13:54:02 <Termana> TheBootroo, I'm sure there will be traditional repos, but then we have this added layer of app stores
May 04 13:54:43 <Stskeeps> slaine: still think there might be a benefit of licensing out your app store
May 04 13:54:50 <bfree> and then there is also the question of where the drm will fit in :-/
May 04 13:55:36 <Termana> With Android, theres the Android Marketplace and everything else is pretty insignificant - but with MeeGo it may become that every app store is significant, and you don't get access to every app developed for the platform
May 04 13:55:42 <slaine> Stskeeps: yes, which is what I think Intel are intending on doing
May 04 13:56:10 <slaine> I can picture vendor specific app stores being quite significant.
May 04 13:56:30 <Stskeeps> well, as long as they dont block other app stores on their devices
May 04 13:56:30 <slaine> i.e. when I buy my Dell Mini 10 with meego installed and it has access to the Dell App Store
May 04 13:56:42 <Termana> slaine, Lets be real here - Intel (quite frankly) does things for Intel. Which is fine, thats how a business is suppose to be run. Intel will only probably do a store for x86
May 04 13:57:14 <slaine> Nod, but there's a whole bunch of OEM's in that space that can and will sell MeeGo preloaded on devices
May 04 13:57:26 <slaine> a hell of a lot more than in the arm space
May 04 13:57:35 <Termana> slaine, So you think its good that Dell have its own app store and people just develop for that app store, and then other manufactures and end users are unable to use those apps?
May 04 13:57:49 <slaine> I never said it was good or bad
May 04 13:58:02 <Stskeeps> Termana: typically they would develop towards platform, not app store
May 04 13:58:05 <slaine> I said that's likely who things will end up, with Vendor app stores being significant
May 04 13:58:27 <slaine> And the chances are that they'll just be a thin wrapper around the intel app store
May 04 13:59:17 <Termana> Stskeeps, right, of course you develop for the platform, but whats the chance that developers are going to want to submit their apps to EVERY store that might be made. Vendor X, Y, Z and 10 other manufacture stores accounted for
May 04 13:59:33 <jacquesdupontd> hi guys
May 04 13:59:45 <Termana> jacquesdupontd, hello
May 04 13:59:45 <Stskeeps> Termana: increase income, sounds nice
May 04 14:00:01 <PolarFox> I'll bet that if Intel let's things fragment that much.. there will be services that will let developer do just that... for a fee ;)
May 04 14:00:07 <Stskeeps> same sw, publish many
May 04 14:00:13 <jacquesdupontd> sorry to disturb you but i'm sadly searching a good shop to find a multi touch capacitive screen for the tablet i'm building
May 04 14:00:17 <jacquesdupontd> and it seems there's no
May 04 14:01:09 <Termana> Stskeeps, even if that is the case - doesn't it seem like a waste of time. Shouldn't a centralised app store (maybe ran by the Linux Foundation?) be made?
May 04 14:01:27 <jacquesdupontd> i'm only website proposing me directly tablet already made but i'm making my own
May 04 14:01:27 <TheBootroo> capacitive is the wrong way, sensitive is better : you can use a pen if you want, finger(s) if you want and far more precise ....
May 04 14:01:33 <jacquesdupontd> sensitive then
May 04 14:01:59 <jacquesdupontd> i was going to check what's the best but first i have to find a shop showing some hehe :)
May 04 14:02:02 <Termana> jacquesdupontd, if your looking for a 7 inch touchscreen, maybe look at what people were doing with turning the EEE PCs screen into touchscreens?
May 04 14:02:18 <jacquesdupontd> nope i already have that
May 04 14:02:21 <jacquesdupontd> that's only panel kit
May 04 14:02:23 <Stskeeps> Termana: i like many app stores over one dictatorial app store. let users decide
May 04 14:02:31 <Stskeeps>  / consumers
May 04 14:02:32 <jacquesdupontd> that transform your screen to touch screen then
May 04 14:02:53 <Stskeeps> (ie, meegopornapps.com will be a major app store)
May 04 14:03:03 <jacquesdupontd> i already got one, that's a cool product but really far from being as good as a professional device like the one i wanna build
May 04 14:03:13 <jacquesdupontd> and it's not multitouchable
May 04 14:03:30 <Termana> Stskeeps, But how are consumers going to be able to choose anything if they get locked into one store that MAY NOT (reread: MAY NOT) have all the apps that all the other stores have
May 04 14:03:43 <jacquesdupontd> i guess apple is buying already multitouchable screen, they are not buying little screen and then put a surface to make it toucable am i right ?
May 04 14:04:25 <Termana> If we were to centralise the process as well as do app approval, there could even be a community team to do that
May 04 14:05:05 <slaine> like I said, I'd imagine that the vendor app store is a wrapper around a global intel one
May 04 14:05:10 <jacquesdupontd> but i already got all the idea and things for my tablet to be built and i think it's gonna be interesting first for me and i think it could also be for other but i just need the screen now and i wanna have the best as possible
May 04 14:05:13 <slaine> target the intel if you're an app developer
May 04 14:05:38 <Stskeeps> Termana: i dont know how business models will  like
May 04 14:06:04 <TheBootroo> jacquesdupontd: try to buy an N900 replacement screen ...    (and are you french ?)
May 04 14:06:14 <slaine> OEM's will provide apps for their own partners, dvd players for example
May 04 14:06:14 <Stskeeps> look
May 04 14:06:18 <jacquesdupontd> ive already built my own debian modified distrib that is either using a finger touchable interface composite made and another for when you come back home that changes automaticly and receive keyboard and mouse bluetooth signal, i hope you get me
May 04 14:06:25 <jacquesdupontd> yes i am
May 04 14:06:27 <Termana> Stskeeps, right I don't expect you to, I'm not shooting anyone here, I'm just discussing
May 04 14:07:10 <pupnik> http://www.google.com/products?q=7"+touchscreen+lcd  jacquesdupontd
May 04 14:07:14 <TheBootroo> jacquesdupontd: why don't you speak in private mode with me in FR ?
May 04 14:07:48 <jacquesdupontd> hm if i wanna sell a product i'm not always going to buy another screen product (i thought about it) and then build the stuff, i'm sure i can directly get a screen from the constructor + my tablet is a tablet that gonna be fast evoluating open sources and bigger than an N900 like 10 to 13 inch i think
May 04 14:08:33 <TheBootroo> an ipad ?  :-(
May 04 14:09:16 <jacquesdupontd> the thing is that everybody's gonna make the same stupid thing like for the netbook revolution, it will be all same products for all to be the cheapeast but then you need , a tablet, a personnal computer, a netbook, a professional computer, i would like to reduce all that device in building a really fast nvidia ion plateform tablet that would be more expensive than the ipad but far better
May 04 14:09:41 <TheBootroo> ok
May 04 14:09:52 <pupnik> lenovo x200t is a good tablet
May 04 14:10:22 <pupnik> anyone here working on alsa drivers for .33 meego kernel (n900?)
May 04 14:10:23 <TheBootroo> so a 7" fullHD touch screen with ion+3ghz dual core ARM would be fine
May 04 14:10:59 <TheBootroo> and obvioulsy 128go of ssd ;-)
May 04 14:11:08 <TheBootroo> and 2gb ram
May 04 14:11:09 <PolarFox> And still it wouldn't do all the stuff it needs to do.. Like have a battery life of more than 10 minutes.. :)
May 04 14:11:21 <TheBootroo> true
May 04 14:11:23 <TheBootroo> :D
May 04 14:12:28 <TheBootroo> jacquesdupontd: will you be shipping this tablet ?
May 04 14:12:33 <jacquesdupontd> why not
May 04 14:12:39 <jacquesdupontd> sorry didn't see your private
May 04 14:55:20 <jedix> isn't there an x201t now?
May 04 14:59:20 <pupnik> delivery in like 3 weeks in germany, 1700+ euro.  core i7... mmmmm
May 04 15:01:03 <pupnik> i really hope we get decent meego devices that can fit in a coat pocket
May 04 15:01:25 <pupnik> or a ladies' purse
May 04 15:01:47 <TheBootroo> :D
May 04 15:04:45 <TheBootroo> bye all
May 04 15:09:12 * pupnik wants something like the "Fujitsu-Siemens Lifebook P1610 Ultra-Portable Tablet PC" at 1/3 the price
May 04 15:17:59 <pupnik> Or the Lifebook U2010....
May 04 15:43:17 <slaine> can't wait to update moblin 2.1 on my netbook
May 04 15:43:22 <slaine> sigh
May 04 18:16:39 <jedix> how can I sign up for a login to build.meego.com?
May 04 18:17:04 <Stskeeps> only open to team members / those who need it
May 04 18:17:14 <Stskeeps> there's a community obs in the works as well
May 04 18:17:38 <jedix> what's the eta on that?
May 04 18:17:58 <Stskeeps> meego-dev mailing list had details
May 04 18:17:58 <jedix> I've been trying to setup my own obs for the time being but it's kinda difficult to get setup
May 04 18:18:31 <Stskeeps> but basically i think the build.meego.com 'resource' is for the people who are included in the various project teams, which makes sense
May 04 18:19:07 <Stskeeps> so when you gain membership status/committer status, you gain access
May 04 18:19:19 <Stskeeps> and then a community obs for playground / etc
May 04 18:19:51 <Stskeeps> or staging area for talents, depending on perspective :)
May 04 18:20:33 <jedix> I'm trying to get my obs setup to build for an omap4
May 04 18:21:24 <Stskeeps> armv5/armv7 should work fine though
May 04 18:21:53 <Stskeeps> i hope there'll be instructions how to set up your own meego obs eventually
May 04 18:22:02 <jedix> yeah
May 04 18:22:03 <jedix> me too
May 04 18:22:14 <jedix> I don't really understand obs
May 04 18:22:24 <jedix> specifically how to create/use your own repo
May 04 18:22:31 <Stskeeps> ah, that part is easy :)
May 04 18:22:37 <jedix> really?
May 04 18:22:43 <Stskeeps> go make an account on build.opensuse.org and play around
May 04 18:22:53 <jedix> well, I was trying to do it locally
May 04 18:22:58 <jedix> I have a build vm running
May 04 18:23:07 <Stskeeps> yeah, but getting a feel for it first is a good thing
May 04 18:23:23 <jedix> I think I have a grasp of what it's supposed to do
May 04 18:23:51 <jedix> but all the instructions are for creating one package that pulls stuff from a pre-defined repo
May 04 18:24:10 <jedix> I want to mirror the srpms from meego and get them all to be built into a repo and then create a distro
May 04 18:24:26 <timeless> stskeeps: did i mention that you build didn't work for me?
May 04 18:24:45 <timeless> somethinh about libc and the kernel being too old
May 04 18:25:04 <timeless> s/nh/ng/
May 04 18:25:05 <infobot> timeless meant: something about libc and the kernel being too old
May 04 18:25:05 <jedix> I have my project osc checked out, and added all the source rpm's..but apparently that's wrong
May 04 18:25:30 * timeless loves ... linux
May 04 18:25:49 <timeless> especially gnu linux
May 04 18:25:56 <jedix> as apposed to?
May 04 18:26:09 <pupnik> http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/01/12/sony-vaio-p-doesnt-quite-fit-gets-ridiculed-by-japanese-geeks/
May 04 18:26:26 <timeless> jedix: any platform that actually works
May 04 18:26:45 <RST38h> expected...
May 04 18:27:08 <Stskeeps> timeless: yes, even a ubuntu rootfs might do that :P
May 04 18:27:09 <timeless> especially with a toolchain where you can build apps and have them run  .. elsewhere
May 04 18:27:27 <Stskeeps> jedix: there's a importsrcpkg thing in osc
May 04 18:27:34 <RST38h> BTW...
May 04 18:27:40 <Stskeeps> jedix: so you want to build it all optimized for omap4?
May 04 18:27:46 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Willing to help with an unusual problem?
May 04 18:28:01 <Stskeeps> RST38h: is it something your doctor would normally advise about?
May 04 18:28:15 <jedix> Stskeeps: to start, probably just for armv7a
May 04 18:28:18 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Almost inclined to agree...
May 04 18:28:19 <jedix> or armv7
May 04 18:28:21 <timeless> stskeeps: my guess is i'd need someone to set up an older toolchain plus older kernel headers
May 04 18:29:03 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Anyway, as you remember, the SDK dependency on the PR1.2 libs has been fixed by addig Squeeze tools to the Scratchbox
May 04 18:29:10 <RST38h> Stskeeps: and the symbols database
May 04 18:29:27 <Stskeeps> jedix: 1.0 will be built for armv7 as well
May 04 18:29:42 <Stskeeps> jedix: so i wouldn't do the effort :P
May 04 18:29:57 <jedix> Stskeeps: yeah, I just want to get a proof of concept that the build works before trying optomizations
May 04 18:29:59 <RST38h> Stskeeps: And now the problem: there is no Squeeze tools distribution for the SB2
May 04 18:30:20 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Is there any way I can persuade SB1 Squeeze to install on SB2?
May 04 18:30:25 <Stskeeps> RST38h: no idea, gave up on sb2 when it died for me :/
May 04 18:30:30 <RST38h> eh
May 04 18:30:44 <Stskeeps> you can possible use a real squeeze rootfs as tools
May 04 18:31:07 <RST38h> I would rather use host tools
May 04 18:31:13 <RST38h> But have no idea how to do that
May 04 18:31:22 <Stskeeps> jedix: right - i would wait a bit for 1.0 (or whatever it's called) and do your experiment there
May 04 18:32:33 <Stskeeps> it would probably make your life a lot easier if there's no deadline for it
May 04 18:32:33 <Stskeeps> :P
May 04 18:32:51 <jedix> yeah
May 04 18:33:04 <jedix> sadly I don't think I can just wait
May 04 18:33:57 <Stskeeps> see if you can set up a simple obs with a remote link to a build.opensuse.org project, and go from there i guess
May 04 18:36:23 <Stskeeps> or see if you can catch some of the builder guys around :)
May 04 18:37:18 <jedix> thanks for the help Stskeeps
May 04 18:37:51 <Stskeeps> or start a conversation on meego-dev as your scenario probably won't be a unique one
May 04 18:38:04 <Stskeeps> good luck :)
May 04 18:38:07 * Stskeeps heads off
May 04 18:38:16 <pupnik> cu Stskeeps
May 04 18:42:19 <TSCHAKeee> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=171014&id=716957114&l=4e3c848e48 <-- frying my evil southern fried chicken :)
May 04 18:43:39 <anotnac> #meego-meeting
May 04 20:13:09 <pupnik> If anyone here hasn't created an account at http://meego.com yet, please try now.  I am not receiving my password.
May 04 20:20:20 <DawnFoster> pupnik: if you don't get it in a few minutes, ping us and we'll look into it
May 04 20:41:05 <pinchartl> hi
May 04 21:03:04 <pinchartl> is there a meego kernel developer here ? why does http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/kernel-source store patches in a quilt series instead of using a normal kernel tree ?
May 04 21:06:18 <drizztbsd> pinchartl: ?
May 04 21:08:10 <pinchartl> drizztbsd: http://wiki.meego.com/Kernel_Process points to the meego kernel repository on gitorious where "all the development happens". that's basically a quilt series with a bunch of scripts. I can't believe development really happens there
May 04 21:09:32 <drizztbsd>  I noticed it too, maybe quilt tree is faster to manager
May 04 21:09:36 <drizztbsd> or easyer
May 04 21:09:40 <janneg> pinchartl: the goal for meego is it to use a vanilla upstream kernel
May 04 21:10:43 <drizztbsd> janneg: and the n900 binary blobs?
May 04 21:11:02 <pinchartl> janneg: that's a goal we probably all agree with, but the truth is kernel development is still required. patches should be pushed to mainline, but they need to be developed somewhere
May 04 21:11:19 <pinchartl> drizztbsd: are there n900 binary blobs in the kernel ?
May 04 21:11:31 <pinchartl> drizztbsd: if so, do you know which ones ?
May 04 21:11:39 <drizztbsd> the battery controller
May 04 21:11:47 <tripzero> gps?
May 04 21:11:57 <pinchartl> drizztbsd: do you know the module name ?
May 04 21:13:12 <drizztbsd> http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_images_for_N900
May 04 21:13:19 <drizztbsd> BME, WLAN, BT
May 04 21:14:23 <drizztbsd> the /lib/firware directory
May 04 21:14:26 <drizztbsd> firmware*
May 04 21:14:59 <pinchartl> ah, firmware is another issue, yes
May 04 21:15:12 <pinchartl> but WLAN is open-source as far as I can tell
May 04 21:15:17 <pinchartl> checking bluetooth and BME
May 04 21:16:40 <pinchartl> the BT driver seems to be open-source too
May 04 21:20:20 <pinchartl> so, if I understand things correctly, product vendors (Intel, Nokia and others) need to push their kernel patches to mainline before they get accepted into Meego ?
May 04 21:20:54 <pupnik> i will donate money to fixed alsa
May 04 21:36:21 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
May 04 21:36:43 <tripzero> pinchartl, yes, it has been intel's policy to push upstream first instead of forking upstream and dabbling in your own mess like other platforms do.
May 04 21:40:21 <thiago_home> pupnik: that will be a lot of money...
May 04 21:44:42 <pinchartl> tripzero: does that work in practice ? there's the upstreaming delays on one side, and the time to market on the other side. I can't believe vendors won't release products with non-upstream code :-)
May 04 21:45:31 <tripzero> pinchartl, i think it works very well.  development cycles in meego are generally longer than the kernel dev cycle so any upstream patches intel pushes are usually stable by the time we need to release.
May 04 21:46:13 <tripzero> getting them in the kernel mainline also helps get additional eyes and testers on the code that wouldn't have access to it normally
May 04 21:47:06 <pinchartl> tripzero: so your kernel has absolutely no hack ?
May 04 21:47:17 <pinchartl> tripzero: not a single patch that hasn't been pushed upstream ? :-)
May 04 21:47:19 <tripzero> finally, pushing enhancements to upstream benefits IA across most segments, not just moblin/meego
May 04 21:48:00 <pinchartl> I fully agree that enhancements need to be pushed upstream
May 04 21:48:08 <pinchartl> but what about security frameworks for instance ?
May 04 21:48:16 <tripzero> pinchartl, honestly, i have no clue if we have any non-upstream patches or if it's pure vanilla atm
May 04 21:48:17 <pinchartl> like the one developped for maemo 6
May 04 21:48:29 <pinchartl> I doubt it will ever get mainstreamed
May 04 21:48:46 <tripzero> iirc, that hasn't landed in the open world at all
May 04 21:49:20 <thiago_home> pinchartl: it's not contradictory
May 04 21:49:25 <thiago_home> patches should go upstream first
May 04 21:49:26 <thiago_home> that's the rule
May 04 21:49:30 <tripzero> pinchartl, it could very well be mainstremed. just a non-default option is all
May 04 21:49:31 <tripzero> idk
May 04 21:49:34 <thiago_home> branching and patching is the exception
May 04 21:52:31 <pinchartl> thiago_home: you think the maemo6 security framework has a change to get upstream ?
May 04 21:53:57 <thiago_home> I have no idea what the framework is or does
May 04 21:54:36 <thiago_home> the only thing I ever heard that might be remotely related was the attempt to make the D-Bus daemon block and ask the user for permissions when passing messages
May 04 21:54:51 <thiago_home> and I told them specifically for that case that the chances were "no way in hell"
May 04 21:54:56 <thiago_home> and I'm a D-Bus maintainer
May 04 21:56:07 <pupnik> :)
May 04 21:57:43 <pinchartl> :-)
May 04 21:58:10 <pinchartl> the kernel security framework adds hooks to various core subsystems. google did the same with android, and the patches got rejected
May 04 21:58:18 <pinchartl> but maybe they didn't do it right
May 04 22:04:12 <pinchartl> anyway, time for bed
May 04 22:04:19 <pinchartl> g'night
May 04 22:36:26 * CosmoHill  got home at 11:20pm :o
May 04 22:45:45 <slaine> CosmoHill: I feel your pain
May 04 22:45:48 <slaine> I'm still working
May 04 22:47:18 <CosmoHill> I have a class diagram now :D
May 04 22:52:42 <CosmoHill> I can't get IRC at uni
May 04 22:52:48 <CosmoHill> not without a ssh tunnel
May 04 22:54:25 <CosmoHill> it's cool cos it was just me and simon
May 04 22:54:32 <CosmoHill> so we got a far bit done
May 04 22:55:43 <e-yes> Hello all. I've a little question about N900-Meego image. After flashing it, is it possible to charge battery? Is it possible somehow to check/display current battery status?
May 04 22:56:30 <CosmoHill> hmm
May 04 22:56:37 <CosmoHill> i think there are two n900 images
May 04 22:56:49 <CosmoHill> and they handle the battery in different ways
May 04 23:00:40 <e-yes> yes. is it possible for open source image? or, at least, for closed img?
May 04 23:02:09 <CosmoHill> the open source image you should be able to get the src.rpm files from the repo
May 04 23:03:46 <e-yes> is there any open source 'replacement' for BME? and how much is it functional?
May 04 23:05:32 <CosmoHill> i have no idea
May 04 23:05:40 <CosmoHill> but I'm sure someone else
May 04 23:05:41 <CosmoHill> does
May 04 23:05:49 <CosmoHill> night night e-yes and slingr
May 04 23:05:54 <CosmoHill> slaine*
May 04 23:06:20 <slaine> yeah, time I hit the hay too
May 04 23:06:30 <CosmoHill> you at home or work?
May 04 23:06:37 <slaine> worked from home today
May 04 23:06:44 <slaine> i'm right beside my bed
May 04 23:06:46 <slaine> it's calling me
May 04 23:06:55 <slaine> 3 more files to edit and then I'm done
May 04 23:08:14 <e-yes> I work at home always. So I don't know where am I:)
May 04 23:08:46 <CosmoHill> I'm staying late at uni
May 04 23:08:54 <CosmoHill> i get more work done with simon :)
May 04 23:12:02 <slaine> night then
May 04 23:27:56 <TSCHAK> damn
May 04 23:28:05 <TSCHAK> no Netbook UX code
May 05 00:33:51 <Termana> good morning
May 05 00:35:55 <tripzero> hi
May 05 01:17:04 * TSCHAK bummed that none of the UX code is checked in
May 05 01:20:42 <sandsmark> I can only get a-z working when typing in the qemu image
May 05 01:20:51 <sandsmark> (no uppercase, numbers, or -'s)
May 05 01:21:31 <Termana> TSCHAK, I think it will be checked in with the 1.0 release. Don't quote me on that though, cause I might be wrong.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 05 02:59:56 2010