**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 19 02:59:57 2010
May 19 05:48:54 <Guest32134> MeeGo Using Btrfs As Default File-System
May 19 05:49:12 <Guest32134> the same file-system to the nand?
May 19 05:49:54 <Stskeeps> doubt it
May 19 05:50:08 <Stskeeps> besides that, we don't really run on nand
May 19 05:51:40 <Guest32134> the handset device will usually be based on nand flash,so which file-system is the suitable one?
May 19 05:52:00 <Stskeeps> actually, most handsets are moving to be SD based these days
May 19 05:52:20 <Stskeeps> as 256mb is too constrained for smartphone like systems
May 19 05:52:23 <Stskeeps> with apps and so on
May 19 05:53:05 <TSCHAKeee> i tried to get mer running on a geode gx
May 19 05:53:08 <TSCHAKeee> that was a disaster
May 19 05:53:13 <TSCHAKeee> hahahahahaha
May 19 05:53:17 <Stskeeps> really?
May 19 05:53:27 <sankar> Hi All, I have a few questions on the ofono framework in meego
May 19 05:53:32 <TSCHAKeee> i am trying to squeeze it onto a system with 512 megs of flash
May 19 05:53:40 <TSCHAKeee> and without reworking all the plumbing to use a squashfs
May 19 05:53:42 <TSCHAKeee> and aufs
May 19 05:53:43 <markatto> isn't geode x86?
May 19 05:53:48 <TSCHAKeee> i dunno how i am gonna pull it off
May 19 05:53:54 <TSCHAKeee> markatto, geode gx is basically i486
May 19 05:53:58 <Stskeeps> ah
May 19 05:54:00 <TSCHAKeee> there is some i586
May 19 05:54:03 <Stskeeps> so ubuntu probably doesn't like it
May 19 05:54:04 <sankar> I downloaded the source code from the web site and tried to build it.
May 19 05:54:08 <TSCHAKeee> but it is one hell of a landmine
May 19 05:54:18 <TSCHAKeee> illegal instructions where you least expect it
May 19 05:54:26 <sankar> the build is happening succesfully, but the drivers /plugins are not getting loaded
May 19 05:54:35 <sankar> can some one proivide help
May 19 05:54:50 <TSCHAKeee> now if the device were geode LX
May 19 05:54:54 <TSCHAKeee> i would not have this problem
May 19 05:55:14 <TSCHAKeee> i'm going to go drill holes in my skull with an ice pick now, to relieve the stress
May 19 05:55:15 <TSCHAKeee> :P
May 19 05:55:47 <markatto> What is really the point of geode these days? I know some embedded systems use them, but wouldn't mips or arm be better choices in most cases?
May 19 05:56:29 <TSCHAKeee> markatto, i am trying to make one last release of LMCE PadOrbiter for the WebDT 366
May 19 05:56:39 <TSCHAKeee> and wanted to shift it to a nice tablet UI
May 19 05:56:50 <TSCHAKeee> but i'm just going to drop it
May 19 05:56:56 <TSCHAKeee> i can't push the hardware any further
May 19 05:57:10 <TSCHAKeee> geode is a flaming pile of donkey dung.
May 19 05:57:36 <markatto> well I know that geode got popular because it is cheap and runs windows
May 19 05:57:54 <markatto> but most of the time you don't really want to run windows
May 19 05:58:02 <TSCHAKeee> you can short ram sockets with dead rats and run windows, what's your point? ;)
May 19 05:58:11 <TSCHAKeee> i'm kidding
May 19 05:58:11 <TSCHAKeee> ;)
May 19 05:58:20 <markatto> arm is faster, mips is cheaper
May 19 05:58:29 <TSCHAKeee> yes and yes
May 19 05:58:31 <markatto> I rarely understand hardware companies though
May 19 05:58:44 <TSCHAKeee> but all the tablets that are palatable
May 19 05:58:51 <TSCHAKeee> are 3-6 months away
May 19 05:59:02 <TSCHAKeee> and that's assuming i can get enough drivers to use all the features
May 19 05:59:30 <markatto> but hopefully cortex-a9 stuff is worth waiting for
May 19 05:59:41 <TSCHAKeee> i hope so, I love OMAP
May 19 06:00:13 <TSCHAKeee> I am wanting to get enough reference hardware to do tablet UX research work on them.
May 19 06:00:24 <markatto> i read that global foundries is going to be doing an a9 chip on 28 nm
May 19 06:00:30 <markatto> sexy
May 19 06:00:30 <TSCHAKeee> nice
May 19 06:00:45 <jysky> thats tight ass!
May 19 06:01:02 <markatto> yeah
May 19 06:01:11 <markatto> tegra 250 should be hitting pretty soon
May 19 06:01:18 <TSCHAKeee> really, as long as we can get decent hardware, with drivers that don't require us to sell too much of our souls...i'll be happy.
May 19 06:01:20 <markatto> i dunno about omap4 stuff
May 19 06:01:34 <TSCHAKeee> omap4 stuff is still in the vendor eval stages at most places
May 19 06:01:38 <markatto> i'm hoping for an omap4 beagleboard
May 19 06:01:46 <TSCHAKeee> that will be sometime after the XM
May 19 06:02:31 <markatto> the other exciting thing is of course meego ;)
May 19 06:02:52 <markatto> a mobile linux os without all the java crap and bizzare security model
May 19 06:03:40 <markatto> I tried to get excited about android, but it's not the unix that I know and love
May 19 06:04:07 <TSCHAKeee> would kill for a good eval board with an a8, touchscreen/display controller, wifi/nic...
May 19 06:04:12 <TSCHAKeee> to base a tablet on.
May 19 06:04:43 <markatto> TSCHAKeee: The touchbook people sound like they're open to sharing their designs
May 19 06:04:57 <TSCHAKeee> i am glad that the touchbook people have a really sound design
May 19 06:05:15 <TSCHAKeee> right now, they're at a standstill while they are doing the production work on their "next big thing"
May 19 06:05:23 <markatto> the touchbook looks very innovative, i hear bad things about the execution
May 19 06:05:24 <Stskeeps> sound design? bullcrap
May 19 06:05:24 <Stskeeps> :P
May 19 06:05:37 <TSCHAKeee> Stskeeps, am I missing something? most likely.
May 19 06:05:53 <markatto> TSCHAKeee: hopefully "next big thing" means tegra 2 + actually works?
May 19 06:06:23 <TSCHAKeee> i hadn't seen a touchbook
May 19 06:06:30 <TSCHAKeee> so i do not know how well it actually works
May 19 06:06:36 <Stskeeps> TSCHAKeee: it is a bit amateurishly made and breaks a little too easily :P
May 19 06:06:43 <TSCHAKeee> ah
May 19 06:06:57 <sankar> when I build the ofono telephony stack, does the driver components get built?
May 19 06:07:09 <sankar> and loaded as a shared library?
May 19 06:07:11 <TSCHAKeee> industrial design is a tough nut.
May 19 06:07:32 <Stskeeps> sankar: #ofono might be able to help too :)
May 19 06:12:01 <TSCHAKeee> holy mother, that PR 1.2 thread is going to break 6,000 by the end of the weekend
May 19 06:12:03 <TSCHAKeee> *shake-head*
May 19 06:12:51 <jysky> :D
May 19 06:13:00 <jysky> and still no timetable for release?
May 19 06:14:56 <TSCHAKeee> hahahaha
May 19 06:15:04 <TSCHAKeee> no, it's been said over and over again,
May 19 06:15:14 <TSCHAKeee> but if you want to piss off the nokia people in here, go ahead
May 19 06:15:15 <TSCHAKeee> ;)
May 19 06:15:23 <jysky> :D
May 19 06:15:39 <jysky> i like their attitude. "when it's done"
May 19 06:16:08 <Stskeeps> testing takes time and bugs are more bad press than delays
May 19 06:16:14 <jysky> ofcourse the child in me is waiting it like xmas, but still, they want to make it good
May 19 06:29:25 <thiago> TSCHAKeee: let's bet on how big it will be when PR1.2 is released
May 19 06:30:13 <TSCHAKeee> 8,800 posts
May 19 06:30:49 <thiago> where is it now?
May 19 06:39:44 <TSCHAKeee> th0br0, 5,915
May 19 06:39:52 <TSCHAKeee> thiago, 5,915
May 19 06:39:57 <TSCHAKeee> it went up 15 posts in the last 20 minutes
May 19 06:52:41 <stefan99> alot of people waiting for patches just for the waiting :), when pr1.2 comes out and if 1.3 is announced, the same people will start all over again, forgetting 1.2 and wanting 1.3
May 19 06:52:48 <stefan99> pretty fun actually :)
May 19 07:00:36 <TSCHAKeee> thiago, http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=82177 ... it's all a matter of perspective.
May 19 07:04:06 <jysky> naturally, that's evolution
May 19 07:12:43 <jysky> hmm. btw. has anyone idea why n900 filemanager can't remove files on microsd card
May 19 07:39:32 <slaine> morning all
May 19 07:40:07 <Stskeeps> morn slaine
May 19 08:09:16 <Stskeeps> morn dneary
May 19 08:09:29 <dneary> moin
May 19 08:13:15 <pupnik> who thinks Intel has any chance at designing an x86 cpu that can compete with TI/Arm in performance / power consumption
May 19 08:13:28 <pupnik> and why..
May 19 08:14:03 <jysky> i don't think x86 compatiple processor can truly compete with modern mobile processor
May 19 08:15:12 <pupnik> seems to be the consensus opinon
May 19 08:15:20 <pupnik> just wondering if any Intel folks here want to challenge that
May 19 08:15:52 <thiago> pupnik: I think intel folks here are sleeping
May 19 08:16:05 <jysky> well. maybe they know something that we don't. as i'm no processor expert, i might not be the best judge if it is possible
May 19 08:16:11 <thiago> besides, Intel obviously think they can
May 19 08:16:18 <thiago> otherwise they wouldn't have started down this path
May 19 08:16:31 <thiago> and if they know something you don't, they're not going to tell you
May 19 08:17:20 <pupnik> http://www.google.com/search?q=%22who+gave+us%22+segment%2Foffset+8088
May 19 08:17:35 <pupnik> they have a lot to answer for
May 19 08:17:48 <jysky> maybe they just believe that power consumption with mobile devices is just going to grow, and at somepoint they can have more performance out of same power consumption
May 19 08:17:51 <pupnik> and they are awake
May 19 08:18:18 <RST38h> Nooo, we are not going to tell you! Never!
May 19 08:18:24 * RST38h cackles evilly
May 19 08:18:26 <jysky> :D
May 19 08:18:59 <thiago> pupnik: that google search's first result is an IRC log of #maemo of you asking this question
May 19 08:19:06 <pupnik> funny, eh
May 19 08:19:17 <thiago> in other words, there is nothing to answer for
May 19 08:19:28 <jysky> i mean what's with n900. sunday i went to sport bar watch monaco gp. i took ssh connection to my linux box and atached a screen where i have this irssi running. i got barely 2,5h usage with 3,5G network
May 19 08:19:40 <RST38h> Frankly, given the latest trend in Cortex SoCs power consumption, I believe that ARM will meet Intel half-the way toward power meltdown
May 19 08:19:54 <thiago> jysky: that's not the processor
May 19 08:20:03 <thiago> that's the radio turned on
May 19 08:20:14 <RST38h> Where OMAP2 phone can stay up for weeks (with radios off), OMAP3 based N900 only makes it through 1-1.5 days (radios off)
May 19 08:20:22 * pupnik passes fruity oaty bars around to make-up.
May 19 08:20:36 <jysky> yeah. but still. devices just use more and more power without any good advances in battery capasity
May 19 08:21:01 <RST38h> So, while Intel SoCs will go down in power consumption, CortexA* SoC will go up
May 19 08:21:09 <jysky> i've done easily over 2 days with n900 with 3G on, but no data connections at all
May 19 08:21:27 <RST38h> jysky: Kinda hard to believe
May 19 08:21:37 <pupnik> RST38h: yeah, no argument there
May 19 08:21:48 <jysky> basicly i really didn't touch the phone. but it did last that long
May 19 08:21:58 * RST38h cannot test as he uses his N900 on regular basis. Cannot put it down and leave it for 2 days
May 19 08:22:02 * thiago keeps 3G off
May 19 08:22:10 <thiago> RST38h: weekends
May 19 08:22:14 <pupnik> jysky: that is not repeatable by me.  worst i can get is 4 hours
May 19 08:22:28 <RST38h> thiago: Yea, right...
May 19 08:22:32 <thiago> during the week, my N900 battery lasts a day and a half, maybe less if I'm in conference calls
May 19 08:22:33 <jysky> strange how much variation there is
May 19 08:22:40 <thiago> during the weekend, it seems to last without a problem
May 19 08:22:48 <thiago> after turning off the auto-login to wifi
May 19 08:22:59 <pupnik> jysky: there's a battery monitor script - you can log your usage in millamps and see what triggers it
May 19 08:23:12 <RST38h> Use BatteryGraph
May 19 08:23:18 <RST38h> It is mighty cool
May 19 08:23:50 <jysky> data connection's seem to be the killer. there is noticable difference between radio on but no data connection and with data connection. even though all the device does it is idling
May 19 08:25:02 <jysky> it's like nokia E51 all over again. simple firmware upgrade made huge differences with that device. on idling dataconnection power consumption
May 19 08:25:52 <thiago> I'd rather it turned wifi off
May 19 08:26:00 <thiago> if there's nothing being transmitted, turn it off
May 19 08:42:51 <Tumi_> anyone have idea how to record a phone call on meego, or is there a way to do it?
May 19 08:45:39 <Tumi_> my comment about n900 and battery life : if you are offline and have no applications running, you should be able to get 2-3 days battery life easily
May 19 08:46:31 <pupnik> thiago: it does
May 19 08:46:36 <Tumi_> if you are online and messaging application plugins on (worst case skype or msn) then you're doomed
May 19 08:47:46 <Tumi_> and there are huge amount of variation in power consumption in different networks. where I live the consumption is much higher than in helsinki for example.
May 19 08:48:03 <thiago> I'm not online anywhere
May 19 08:48:12 <thiago> there's nothing visible doing networking
May 19 08:48:23 <thiago> so I don't know why it doesn't power the wifi off
May 19 08:51:58 <pupnik> thiago: just because wifi icon is on doesn't mean it is using power or transmitting
May 19 08:53:33 <Tumi_> thiago: but you have "Network connection: not connected" ?
May 19 08:55:20 <thiago> Tumi_: no, it shows my wifi's SSID
May 19 08:57:29 <jysky> yeah it's transmiting. keeping connection alive
May 19 09:03:02 <Tumi_> thiago: wifi is not familiar to me... but if you disconnect it, nothing happens?
May 19 10:07:31 <thiago> Tumi_: it disconnects
May 19 10:07:33 <thiago> but comes back on later
May 19 10:34:38 <Tumi_> thiago: well that's weird.. what software version you have?
May 19 10:35:28 <Tumi_> settings / about product
May 19 10:37:37 <Tumi_> I guess you must disable it from  settings / Internet connections / connect automatically
May 19 10:38:24 <Tumi_> for me wlan is not taking that much current if power options are enabled
May 19 10:39:06 <jysky> yeah, wlan is not the powerhog as 3G is
May 19 10:39:07 <Tumi_> but that also might depend on the wireless router you have
May 19 10:39:53 <jysky> and afaik 4G will be even worse for batterylife
May 19 10:40:26 <Tumi_> the problem with 3g is that there are hundreds of old 3g stations that do not implement power saving proprerly and that leads to radio staying on for long periods even if you transfer few bytes of data
May 19 10:41:02 <Tumi_> so like skype plugin causes it to be on almost all the time, as it is periodically sending small packages
May 19 10:41:24 <Tumi_> jysky: depends on which 4g technology you talk about
May 19 10:41:33 <Tumi_> LTE should be very scalable in power-efficiency
May 19 10:42:16 <Tumi_> but again it might be that not all stations support everything so time will show
May 19 10:42:32 <jysky> well. atleast those experimental 4G networks that teliasonera has built in stockholm and helsinki?
May 19 10:43:27 <Tumi_> I can imagine =)
May 19 10:43:45 <Tumi_> you know. it's all about the throughput ;)
May 19 10:44:20 <Tumi_> even latencies don't matter to most even if it's the most crucial (imho) in most networking operations people do
May 19 10:44:41 <Tumi_> well. for warez people it might not be. :D
May 19 14:01:54 <XS3> how can i contribute to meego?is there a sdk?
May 19 14:02:30 <macron> What do you want to do?
May 19 14:02:39 <XS3> create apps
May 19 14:02:47 <XS3> do we do it using qt itself?
May 19 14:03:19 <macron> Qt is the application framework, so get started you can get familiar with the Qt SDK
May 19 14:03:32 <XS3> after that?
May 19 14:03:54 <XS3> i know a bit of Qt programming.
May 19 14:04:08 <macron> If you want to get more into embedded development there is the Nokia Qt SDK - Beta available from forum.nokia.com.  It has most of the elements that will be in the Meego Qt SDK for application developers.
May 19 14:04:37 <XS3> not very interested in embedded
May 19 14:04:56 <macron> (You can choose not to install the Symbian elements at the start by selecting the custom installation).
May 19 14:05:15 <XS3> while installing Qt?
May 19 14:05:21 <macron> The embedded in this case = mobile handset (such as the Meego Handset, or N900).
May 19 14:05:41 <XS3> oh okay
May 19 14:06:10 <macron> If you install Qt SDK you do not get MADDE and the tools used to stimulate the handset, or the tools used for on-device-debugging for the handset.
May 19 14:06:20 <macron> The Nokia Qt SDK - Beta has these tools.
May 19 14:06:23 <XS3> okay
May 19 14:06:31 <XS3> http://qt.nokia.com/products/platform/qt-for-embedded-linux
May 19 14:06:39 <XS3> i download it from here?
May 19 14:07:05 <macron> 1 sec.
May 19 14:07:18 <XS3> which version do i download?the embedded one or the linux/x11 version?
May 19 14:08:54 <macron> Get it from here: http://www.forum.nokia.com/Tools_Docs_and_Code/Tools/IDEs/Nokia_Qt_SDK/
May 19 14:09:23 <macron> It does not come with the desktop Qt, so if you want to use it then you need to get it separately.
May 19 14:09:29 <XS3> thanks a bunch
May 19 14:09:37 <macron> You're welcome.
May 19 14:09:54 <XS3> can i do a install even if after having Qt 4 already installed
May 19 14:09:55 <XS3> ?
May 19 14:10:28 <macron> Yes, AFAIK it just means that it should find the Qt libraries you already have installed.
May 19 14:10:49 <XS3> oh okay
May 19 14:11:01 <XS3> its got an inbuilt simulator too?
May 19 14:11:08 <XS3> can the projects be exported?
May 19 14:11:34 <macron> It simulates the Qt APIs for the device, so it is not a full device simulator - only Qt API simulator.
May 19 14:11:56 <macron> What do you mean exported? Do you mean packaged for a device?
May 19 14:12:07 <XS3> i didnt get the API part
May 19 14:12:21 <XS3> and yes,was talking about packaging it for a device
May 19 14:12:53 <macron> The simulator only "fakes" the device Qt APIs, there are some of the internal APIs, such as gstreamer which are not part of the simulator.
May 19 14:13:07 <XS3> okay.got it
May 19 14:13:28 <macron> There is no support for device packaging yet, for the N900 there is some documentation on maemo.org.
May 19 14:13:57 <XS3> okay.once the stable release comes out,it will work fine then?
May 19 14:14:05 <macron> You can however install software on the device from your PC, AFAIK it requires using a MADDE terminal.
May 19 14:14:22 <XS3> device as in N900 right?
May 19 14:14:34 <macron> Yes, it is the one I know.
May 19 14:14:42 <XS3> okay
May 19 14:14:44 <XS3> thanks again
May 19 14:14:55 <XS3> will check it out and get back if i have any doubts
May 19 14:15:02 <macron> I will have to check out about the "Make Package" button, it will take some time though.
May 19 14:15:13 <macron> (The development I mean).
May 19 14:15:24 <XS3> okay
May 19 14:17:07 <macron> XS3: I have to go know, but good luck, I hope to see/hear you later.
May 19 16:05:00 <th0br0> mh, is it wise to use RHBLs?
May 19 16:05:04 <th0br0> *RHSBLs?
May 19 16:16:14 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: no agenda yet?
May 19 16:17:38 <th0br0> heya Stskeeps
May 19 16:17:50 <Stskeeps> moo
May 19 16:18:24 <DawnFoster> Stskeeps - I think we're going to push the TSG out a week, but I'm waiting on confirmation.
May 19 16:18:34 <th0br0> again? o.O
May 19 16:19:20 <Stskeeps> fair enough
May 19 16:24:03 <GAN900> lol
May 19 16:24:22 <GAN900> Nokia can't make meetings, Intel can't make meetings
May 19 16:25:14 <Stskeeps> at least i have a shot at being fresh for the 8am n900 meeting then
May 19 16:26:22 <lcuk> DawnFoster, could we try to ensure that meetings are finalised 24 hours before the date
May 19 16:27:03 <DawnFoster> lcuk: you would not believe how hard I try to make that happen
May 19 16:27:29 <DawnFoster> I started working on the agenda last Friday, but ultimately Imad & Valtteri make the final decision on the agenda and the meeting
May 19 16:31:58 * lcuk watches the google io webcast instead
May 19 16:32:48 * frals googles lcuks webcast instead of io
May 19 16:35:27 * lcuk ios frals instead the webcast watch
May 19 16:46:22 <PocketIRC> meego
May 19 16:55:24 <tripzero> meeego
May 19 16:56:41 <DawnFoster> Random trivia: Most common search misspellings of MeeGo include: megoo (777), meegoo (444), mee go (297), mmego (90)
May 19 16:57:12 <DawnFoster> numbers in parentheses are the times that people misspelled it in search queries for April
May 19 16:59:10 <mmeeks> anaZ: dudie ?
May 19 16:59:52 <anaZ> huh
May 19 17:00:54 <mmeeks> anaZ: msg :-)
May 19 17:06:19 <lcuk> DawnFoster, :D where did the search results come from?
May 19 17:06:46 <CosmoHill> hey lcuk and DawnFoster
May 19 17:06:52 <lcuk> hey CosmoHill \o
May 19 17:07:11 <CosmoHill> after dinner someone's gonna have to force me to go back to work :/
May 19 17:07:18 <DawnFoster> lcuk: from google analytics on the main website.
May 19 17:07:28 <lcuk> ahh cool beans
May 19 17:08:34 <CosmoHill> I seem to have missed something interesting
May 19 17:11:56 <CosmoHill> hehe "me goo"
May 19 17:13:19 <PocketIRC> meegle
May 19 17:14:14 <lbt> world of meegoo
May 19 17:15:55 <fiferboy> lbt: World of Goo should be ported to meego just on the basis of that awesome name
May 19 17:16:14 <lbt> hi fiferboy....  how's things :)
May 19 17:16:33 <fiferboy> lbt: Things are going very well right now. You?
May 19 17:16:49 <lbt> good to hear ... :D     yep, really happy
May 19 17:16:56 <lbt> just landed from Hel though
May 19 17:17:04 <lbt> hey, who do you work for now?
May 19 17:17:17 <lbt> did the nomovok thing come through?
May 19 17:17:27 <panaggio> amigo (friend in Portuguese, it's something like "a meego")
May 19 17:17:55 <lbt> fiferboy: back l8r... Denise is calling
May 19 18:19:48 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: is the idea to have two consecutive meetings (ie, two wednesday in a row)?
May 19 18:20:01 <Stskeeps> (if everything goes well, you never know with meetings :)
May 19 18:20:10 <DawnFoster> Stskeeps: honestly, I have no idea :)
May 19 18:20:16 <Stskeeps> :nod:
May 19 18:20:41 <DawnFoster> I'm going to try to figure out a better process for the TSGs when we have Imad & Valtteri together here in Portland next week.
May 19 18:21:25 <Stskeeps> hopefully much of the load would be diverted downwards to WGs and such soon
May 19 18:21:48 <Stskeeps> so they can go back to steering and providing direction and resolving disputes :)
May 19 18:22:19 <DawnFoster> exactly. In absence of a documented project structure, people are trying to push way to many decisions up to the TSG that belong at a lower level in the project
May 19 18:22:29 <DawnFoster> TSG should be for big decisions and escalations
May 19 18:22:38 <DawnFoster> not approval for every little thing
May 19 18:22:44 <DawnFoster> (my opinion) :)
May 19 18:22:52 <Stskeeps> yeah, i agree
May 19 18:26:09 <lbt> *nod* ... I would like a simple statement saying "of course policy as described on the wiki is mandatory - go deal with it"
May 19 18:26:44 <Stskeeps> i get beaten by anas if i don't do proper packaging, at least, so it does exist to some extent
May 19 18:26:51 <lbt> good anaZ
May 19 18:27:00 <Stskeeps> (in a good way)
May 19 18:27:20 <lbt> hmmm it should be a fairly severe beating... I'll have to talk to him
May 19 18:27:50 <lbt> the problem is that you have no way of knowing what's good or bad
May 19 18:28:17 <lbt> I'm trying to write an rpm-lintian type thing ... but I need a specification
May 19 18:28:49 <Stskeeps> why not extend upon rpmlint?
May 19 18:28:58 <lbt> that's the plan
May 19 18:29:29 <Stskeeps> not having your package build if you mess up is a pretty good motivator :)
May 19 18:29:47 <lbt> this is all laying groundwork to support some QA frameworks
May 19 18:30:00 <DawnFoster> In general, when we have the project structure better defined with the names of people responsible, we'll be in a better position to finalize and enforce our policies / processes
May 19 18:31:14 <Stskeeps> hopefully it's soon - it's been underway for so long
May 19 18:31:33 * lbt is going for the "JFDI" approach :)
May 19 18:32:25 <Stskeeps> i think 'hope' is actually one of the top scorers of words in here if we cut away the typical words
May 19 18:32:48 * lbt just went into #m-m....   and read the topic...
May 19 18:33:11 <lbt> and doesn't know what to say
May 19 18:33:23 <DawnFoster> lbt: don't shoot the messenger :)
May 19 18:33:34 <lbt> "more time for ice-cream" springs to mind...
May 19 18:34:05 <DawnFoster> it means that I can actually take a lunch break - not that I'll actually leave my desk, but I *could* :)
May 19 18:35:08 * lbt notes... gently... that a fair few other people - volunteers - make plans to be here for this meeting
May 19 18:35:24 <TSCHAKeee> when is it?
May 19 18:35:30 <TSCHAKeee> i'm bad with time zones
May 19 18:35:31 <TSCHAKeee> :P
May 19 18:35:46 <Stskeeps> next week
May 19 18:35:47 <lbt> <grin> ... not this bad !
May 19 18:36:37 <DawnFoster> lbt: I know - I drove for 45 minutes to come into the office despite being sick just for the TSG
May 19 18:36:49 <slaine> and it's canceled ?
May 19 18:36:51 * Stskeeps passes DawnFoster some hot tea
May 19 18:37:15 <lbt> DawnFoster: I am not shooting you... sorry if it read that way :)
May 19 18:38:01 <slaine> lbt, we've probably been given a nice clue as to when 1.0 for netbooks will be released ;)
May 19 18:38:14 <lbt> mrs lbt says "no, no no....." as her mouse pointer fails to respond
May 19 18:38:34 <lbt> then, in desperation, she lifts up the mouse to see if it's glowing red
May 19 18:38:35 <DawnFoster> Stskeeps: at least we have free tea here in the office (not as good as my tea at home, but pretty good)
May 19 18:38:35 <Stskeeps> slaine: 'may' is running out of time isn't it? :P
May 19 18:38:46 <lbt> it is... <slump>
May 19 18:38:53 <slaine> and 26th is a nice date
May 19 18:39:49 <Stskeeps> i wouldn't mind time slowing down a bit, the last 4 months have just flown away on meego and maemo
May 19 18:40:41 <slaine> awe well, if there's no meeting, I'll go and spend some time with my kids
May 19 18:40:50 <slaine> catch you all tomorrow
May 19 18:45:47 <fiferboy> lbt: No, Nomovok seemed interested and then stopped contacting me after weeks of follow-ups
May 19 18:46:05 <Stskeeps> glad to see you have a job though
May 19 18:46:54 <Tm_T> fiferboy: uh, not nice
May 19 18:46:57 <fiferboy> Stskeeps: Me too!
May 19 18:47:47 <Tm_T> fiferboy: from what location your were supposed to work for them btw?
May 19 18:48:15 <fiferboy> Tm_T: Well I'm in Canada, but discussion didn't get too far
May 19 18:48:24 <Tm_T> ah, roger
May 19 18:48:40 * Tm_T happens to know that company from somewhere
May 19 18:50:54 * Stskeeps 's pretty happy with nomovok but getting in in the first place is always difficult
May 19 18:51:22 <thiago_home> Stskeeps: you work for novomok?
May 19 18:51:26 <Tm_T> Stskeeps: they have great workers, I have noticed (;
May 19 18:52:16 * thiago_home has noticed too
May 19 18:52:20 <Stskeeps> thiago_home: no, subcontracting
May 19 18:52:23 <thiago_home> I have a couple of patches left to review
May 19 18:52:31 <thiago_home> Stskeeps: you're subcontracting to novomok?
May 19 18:52:36 <RST38h> wazd: Fringe at 3C next month
May 19 18:53:31 <Stskeeps> evening tekojo
May 19 18:53:53 <tekojo> evening Stskeeps!
May 19 18:53:53 <lbt> hey tekojo ... whens the OBS coming?  ;)
May 19 18:54:04 <tekojo> lbt which one :D
May 19 18:54:16 <wazd> RST38h: where? :)
May 19 18:54:23 <lbt> we need more than one? .... oh yes...
May 19 18:54:37 <Stskeeps> lbt: bug 615 bugs.meego.com could need some input btw
May 19 18:54:46 <tekojo> I need to call a meeting on that topic, figure out the server topology
May 19 18:54:49 <wazd> hello people btw
May 19 18:54:54 <Stskeeps> lo wazd
May 19 18:55:07 * Tm_T bows
May 19 18:55:11 <tekojo> hello
May 19 18:55:11 <lbt> Stskeeps: the #meego bot needs work...
May 19 18:55:18 <Stskeeps> indeed
May 19 18:55:48 <fiferboy> Hi wazd
May 19 18:56:05 <wazd> fiferboy: wow! long time no see Andrew :)
May 19 18:56:14 <wazd> fiferboy: how's it going? :)
May 19 18:56:17 <tekojo> lbt seriously the hardware is still on it's way, 2-3 weeks is the guess
May 19 18:56:37 <fiferboy> wazd, I am still alive and everything is going very well right now
May 19 18:56:49 * lbt hunts...
May 19 18:57:09 <lbt> tekojo: http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/School
May 19 18:57:17 <lbt> we haven't got long...
May 19 18:57:37 <wazd> fiferboy: any new crazy maemo apps to design? :)
May 19 18:58:30 <lbt> that's a "train the community to use the community OBS" event BTW...
May 19 18:58:32 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: on a sidenote, i'm tracking #meego-meeting with logs now too, so we can make the statistics on participants/etc
May 19 18:58:44 <tekojo> lbt hardware could just make it I guess
May 19 18:58:46 <fiferboy> wazd: I uploaded a couple of new versions of my old apps today
May 19 18:58:52 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: and see how the build up to a meeting happens, etc
May 19 18:58:56 <lbt> so the community OBS is a bit of a pre-req ;)
May 19 18:59:02 <fiferboy> wazd: If they ever release PR 1.2 I might have some Qt apps to upload as well
May 19 18:59:06 <tekojo> kind of :)
May 19 18:59:11 <lbt> tekojo: it was a stake in the ground and a target.
May 19 18:59:30 <lbt> it's a wiki... we can edit the date
May 19 18:59:34 <tekojo> lbt good stake, but hardware delivery is a tricky business
May 19 19:00:08 <dneary> DawnFoster, Do you also have capitalisation stats for misspellings?
May 19 19:00:10 <dneary> My bet is that Meego's more popular than the correct MeeGo
May 19 19:00:12 <thiago_home> DawnFoster: TSG is every 2 weeks. The next one is moved to next week.
May 19 19:00:12 <tekojo> I mean this time we actually went out and bought blades, now apparently someone is melting sand to make silicon...
May 19 19:00:17 <wazd> fiferboy: shhhh, don't disturb gods :D
May 19 19:00:20 <thiago_home> is the one after that in 2 weeks, or 3?
May 19 19:00:26 <lbt> Ramez has been working on getting the nokia internal 'training' material public
May 19 19:00:28 <DawnFoster> Thiago_home: the next TSG will be on May 26. We're still working on process and schedule for the meetings.
May 19 19:00:41 <DawnFoster> not sure when the next one after May 26 will be.
May 19 19:01:01 <lbt> dneary: woohoo ... more capiTaliSation nitpicking \o/
May 19 19:01:03 <tekojo> lbt that sounds good, no sense keeping it inside
May 19 19:01:04 <thiago_home> ok
May 19 19:01:16 * thiago_home leaves his calendar entry for every 2 weeks
May 19 19:01:33 * lbt spots an off-by-one issue for thiago_home
May 19 19:01:59 <dneary> tekojo, Do you have any suggestions to make for the brainstorm, by the way?
May 19 19:02:11 <dneary> It'd be great to get your input on where things should be in 6 months
May 19 19:02:30 <dneary> Oops - sorry - wrong channel :)
May 19 19:02:39 <tekojo> dneary was locked in a meeting room all day, not really in the place to read those
May 19 19:02:45 <dneary> Yeah
May 19 19:02:45 <V-PV> So, what is reason for moving TSG?
May 19 19:03:00 <thiago_home> lbt: right, oops
May 19 19:03:05 * thiago_home moves back to every week
May 19 19:03:06 <dneary> V-PV, Presumably, to have community office & TSG meeting on alternate weeks?
May 19 19:03:49 <dneary> DawnFoster, I won't be available this time next week - moving house (for a few weeks, but still)
May 19 19:04:04 <V-PV> dneary: OK, sounds fair...
May 19 19:04:14 <lcuk> dneary, wheres the new house?
May 19 19:04:16 <DawnFoster> dneary: I'm not sure exactly where we stand on the licensing issue. I know the LF provided a recommendation, but not sure if it's finalized yet
May 19 19:04:17 <RST38h> wazd: http://www.kinopoisk.ru/level/1/film/412342/
May 19 19:04:17 <dneary> V-PV, I'm only guessing
May 19 19:04:19 <lcuk> same country or bigggggg move
May 19 19:04:23 <RST38h> wazd: Actually, starts in May
May 19 19:04:27 <dneary> Perhaps Dawn has more info
May 19 19:04:33 <DawnFoster> I think we can finalize it on the mailing list or outside of the meeting
May 19 19:04:36 <dneary> lcuk, To Ireland
May 19 19:04:47 <DawnFoster> sorry - more info on which topic
May 19 19:04:48 <wazd> RST38h: no, I know what fringe is, but what's 3C? :)
May 19 19:04:58 <wazd> aaaah
May 19 19:05:02 <lcuk> dneary, :) great stuff, bigger house?
May 19 19:05:03 <dneary> DawnFoster, Well, several people in SFO said "we'll do whatever LF Legal says"
May 19 19:05:11 <RST38h> yep
May 19 19:05:13 <dneary> lcuk, House, for a start - not appartment
May 19 19:05:20 <wazd> RST38h: got it :)
May 19 19:05:23 <lcuk> :) grand
May 19 19:05:50 * RST38h suddenly figures it is #meego
May 19 19:05:58 <DawnFoster> dneary: I suspect that we're good on licensing; however, I do not make that decision, so I can't give you a definite answer on whether to proceed or not
May 19 19:06:02 <wazd> RST38h: so many series but no time for all of them :(
May 19 19:06:13 <wazd> RST38h: thank god lost is ending next week :D
May 19 19:06:29 <RST38h> wazd: Only three are worth watching (and two of them just barely =))
May 19 19:06:36 <dneary> DawnFoster, So rubber-stamping the proposal & getting the wheels in motion with Nokia for relicensing docs is something that we need to get done pretty quickly, because it'll take a while
May 19 19:07:03 <DawnFoster> I know
May 19 19:07:34 <dneary> DawnFoster, And since I'll be missing next week, I'd appreciate if it stayed on the agenda for next week (or could get agreed outside the meetings, perhaps on a mailing list?)
May 19 19:08:47 <dneary> DawnFoster, Happy to see the feedback from Ibrahim, thoughh
May 19 19:09:25 <DawnFoster> dneary: keep in mind that Imad and Valtteri make the decisions on agenda items. I can't guarantee any particular agenda item
May 19 19:09:37 <dneary> Although I really don't understand why the drafts need to be prepared, reviewed & approved in private before being published :)
May 19 19:10:00 <dneary> DawnFoster, OK - I'm hoping that the ground work has been done sufficiently on this one to allow a simple decision
May 19 19:10:16 <DawnFoster> dneary: legal stuff always works this way
May 19 19:10:25 <Stskeeps> dneary: i will be astonished the day meego lawyers work in the open
May 19 19:10:38 <dneary> DawnFoster, I don't expect the lawyers to work in the open
May 19 19:10:50 <dneary> s/DawnFoster/Stskeeps
May 19 19:11:35 <dneary> Stskeeps, What I would hope is that the initial drafts (or lists of questions we want answers to) get drawn up in the open, and submitted to the lawyers, and then we hear the feedback from the lawyers later
May 19 19:11:45 <dneary> Stskeeps, This is what we've done in GNOME for years
May 19 19:11:53 <Stskeeps> :nod:
May 19 19:12:44 <DawnFoster> dneary: since you work with Nokia - you can always prod Valtteri and see if you can get a decision on the mailing list
May 19 19:13:06 <dneary> DawnFoster, The operative word is "with" - I don't actually have any contact with Valhalla
May 19 19:13:19 <dneary> But sure, I don't mind bringing it up
May 19 19:13:27 <GAN900> fiferboy, too bad you weren't here for me to make fun of Toronto. :P
May 19 19:13:32 <Stskeeps> could always ask some people to escalate it if need be, or mail directly
May 19 19:13:35 <GAN900> fiferboy, how's the jon search?
May 19 19:13:46 <dneary> I think Valtteri and Imad are both on meego-dev, right?both
May 19 19:13:56 <fiferboy> GAN900: I'm in my third week of my new job :)
May 19 19:13:59 <Stskeeps> dneary: they're not that active currently, which is a shame :/
May 19 19:14:04 <fiferboy> GAN900: What Toronto bashing?
May 19 19:14:07 <GAN900> fiferboy, like it?
May 19 19:14:12 <dneary> Stskeeps, As long as they're reading :)
May 19 19:14:32 <GAN900> fiferboy, after I went to a couple of the early season games here and we creamed the Jays to a fine pulp. :P
May 19 19:14:43 <fiferboy> GAN900: On my first day I was given a desktop with Windows 7 and told to put Linux on it.  That was a good sign
May 19 19:15:11 <Stskeeps> dneary: i would be happy if they read anything prefixed with TSG
May 19 19:15:30 <dneary> Stskeeps, A proposal to make informally next week?
May 19 19:15:39 <Stskeeps> like we have our N900 prefix
May 19 19:15:44 <GAN900> fiferboy, nice.
May 19 19:15:45 <Stskeeps> could help with metrics too
May 19 19:15:56 <fiferboy> GAN900: I don't think the Jays and Rays have played regular season yet, have they?
May 19 19:16:20 <fiferboy> GAN900: But the Rays are off to another great start
May 19 19:17:33 <GAN900> fiferboy, well, I hope they have, as I've been to three games here. :P
May 19 19:18:00 <fiferboy> GAN900: Regular season?  I stand corrected!
May 19 19:18:07 <GAN900> fiferboy, yeah, good season, don't think we'll see a team this good again for a long while.
May 19 19:18:11 <fiferboy> The Jays aren't doing so bad themselves right now, though
May 19 19:18:17 <GAN900> Nope
May 19 19:18:26 <GAN900> Poor Orioles, though.
May 19 19:18:36 <GAN900> and the Red Sox are looking a little weak.
May 19 19:18:55 <fiferboy> Yeah, the Orioles didn't see it coming.  They thought the Rays were supposed to be the bottom-dwellers
May 19 19:19:15 <GAN900> I went to both home openners here
May 19 19:19:28 <GAN900> First against the Orioles, second against the Yankees. :D
May 19 19:19:43 <fiferboy> I haven't gotten out to a Jays game yet this year.  Hopefully in June
May 19 19:19:46 <fiferboy> GAN900: LOL!
May 19 19:20:16 <GAN900> We beat the Yankees 9 to 3 in that first game
May 19 19:20:22 <GAN900> Wonderfully satisfying.
May 19 19:20:38 <GAN900> fiferboy, glad to hear you're not still searching for a jo.
May 19 19:20:40 <GAN900> b
May 19 19:20:48 <GAN900> What terrible timing. . . .
May 19 19:21:25 <fiferboy> GAN900: Yeah, the timing wasn't great with the 3 month-old, but I guess there is never a good time to lose your job
May 19 19:21:42 <GAN900> On that note, how's the kid?
May 19 19:21:55 <GAN900> No, but it can't get much worse than that. . . .
May 19 19:22:19 <GAN900> Maybe if it were twins and your life found a better man, or something. :P
May 19 19:22:25 <fiferboy> He's huge.  6 months old and the size of a 9 month old. 99th percentile for height, weight, and head circumference
May 19 19:22:39 <GAN900> Haha
May 19 19:22:58 <GAN900> fiferboy 2.0: Bigger, Stronger, Faster?
May 19 19:23:16 <Tm_T> fiferboy: it's normal in that age, size matters not
May 19 19:24:36 <fiferboy> I know he will slow down at some point, but it is nice to know he is obviously getting nutrition
May 19 19:24:37 <lcuk> fiferboy, STOP FEEDING BABY RADIOACTIVE FOOD! :D
May 19 19:24:43 <lcuk> hope you are enjoying her
May 19 19:24:47 <lcuk> /him
May 19 19:25:14 <fiferboy> lcuk: Him.  The one good thing about losing my job was I got to spend three month with the wife and boys
May 19 19:25:35 <fiferboy> Of course, there is a whole whack of uncertainty hanging around that kind of taints it at the time...
May 19 19:25:43 <lcuk> yup
May 19 19:26:28 * lbt projects fiferboy's kid forward using an amazing bit of morphing sw he knocked up in 43 random keystrokes...
May 19 19:26:29 <lcuk> so fiferboy have you got him his first computer yet
May 19 19:26:58 <mikhas> does a babyphone count?
May 19 19:27:00 <fiferboy> lbt: 43 keystrokes?  Must be perl...
May 19 19:27:14 <lbt> of course
May 19 19:27:25 <Tm_T> mikhas: only if it's smartphone
May 19 19:27:25 <fiferboy> lcuk: I'm waiting for a Harmattan/Meego device to come out first
May 19 19:27:46 <lbt> oh your teaching him the turn blue trick then?
May 19 19:27:47 <mikhas> Tm_T, I know of someone who used two N900 for the job
May 19 19:29:08 <lbt> DawnFoster: whilst I remember.... why is meego-dev subscriber only now?
May 19 19:29:34 <Stskeeps> it has always been?
May 19 19:29:48 <DawnFoster> lbt: you have to be a subscriber to post - always has been. It's for spam reduction
May 19 19:30:02 <DawnFoster> if you leave it open, it becomes a haven for spam / bots
May 19 19:30:16 <lbt> mmmm
May 19 19:30:21 <DawnFoster> anyone can subscribe
May 19 19:30:33 <lcuk> isnt this one of the open until needed things?
May 19 19:30:43 <Stskeeps> i'd say sane policy
May 19 19:30:56 <lbt> I get almost no spam via lkml
May 19 19:31:10 <lbt> it's not exactly small/unknown
May 19 19:31:17 <DawnFoster> it's completely open - anyone can subscribe & you can subscribe with multiple email addresses if that makes it easier
May 19 19:32:00 <DawnFoster> I think lkml has a similar config - almost all mailing lists do
May 19 19:32:04 <lbt> in general I think that making people subscribe to a list to eg, report a problem, is a bad idea
May 19 19:32:12 <lbt> not at all
May 19 19:32:26 <DawnFoster> lbt: with spam the way it is, you really don't have a choice.
May 19 19:32:32 <mikhas> meego-dev is a bugreporting ML?
May 19 19:32:39 <DawnFoster> spam has been a big enough issue on MeeGo already
May 19 19:32:52 <mikhas> we have bugtrackers for that, and even those require registration
May 19 19:32:52 <lbt> in fact having a subscriber only mailing list is a good way to get you kicked out of the kernel maintainer list
May 19 19:34:25 <GAN900> lbt, same for the Maemo lists and same for Bugzilla. Hush. :P
May 19 19:39:34 <lbt> DawnFoster: so who moderates it?
May 19 19:39:45 <DawnFoster> lbt: honestly, no one
May 19 19:40:04 <lbt> so that needs fixing.... :)
May 19 19:40:26 <lbt> I sent an email last night and got a "your message is awaiting moderation"
May 19 19:40:29 <GAN900> I hear the sound of volunteer.
May 19 19:40:31 <GAN900> ing
May 19 19:40:42 <lbt> not "your message is rejected"
May 19 19:40:44 <DawnFoster> lbt: we assume that you'll resend from the right email address :)
May 19 19:40:51 <lbt> uh huh ;)
May 19 19:40:58 <lbt> I did
May 19 19:41:04 <DawnFoster> exactly
May 19 19:41:40 <lbt> but seriously... it should either be moderated or configured as closed
May 19 19:42:03 <Stskeeps> there's a setting for subscriber-only?
May 19 19:42:15 <Stskeeps> ie, like, it rejects your message if you don't do it from right place
May 19 19:42:49 <lbt> mmm. well it rejects if "from:" is not subscribed
May 19 19:42:56 <Stskeeps> (and not into a queue)
May 19 19:43:53 <lbt> http://www.list.org/features.html
May 19 19:44:21 <lbt> right now it is configured to 'mislead'
May 19 19:44:45 <lbt> it says your mail is in a queue when it's actually in /dev/null
May 19 19:44:53 <Stskeeps> file a bug?
May 19 19:45:46 <lbt> does b.m.c not use SSO?
May 19 19:46:54 <lbt> http://meego.com/user/register => Access Denied
May 19 19:48:33 <DawnFoster> lbt: you get that message because you are already logged in :)
May 19 19:48:46 <DawnFoster> If you log out, that link works
May 19 19:48:51 <lbt> ah, that makes sense :D
May 19 19:49:15 <Tm_T> "access denied" is not very descriptive message though
May 19 19:49:41 <DawnFoster> agreed. That's something in Drupal
May 19 19:49:45 * lbt is British Tm_T.... that was british humour...
May 19 20:03:22 <berndhs> TSG meet next week ?
May 19 20:03:23 <lbt> DawnFoster: MeeGo.com ... Planet MeeGo ... is that manual?
May 19 20:03:48 <GAN900> berndhs, supposedly.
May 19 20:03:52 <GAN900> I guess we shall see.
May 19 20:04:12 <berndhs> reminds me of signs in taverns "free beer tomorrow" :)
May 19 20:09:25 <DawnFoster> lbt: manual in what sense. We manually approve and add the feeds, but anything from the feed gets automatically populated
May 19 20:09:47 <DawnFoster> we're in the process of overhauling the planet with something bergie set up
May 19 20:10:06 <lbt> my 2 posts have the same link
May 19 20:10:12 <lbt> if it's automated it's a bug
May 19 20:10:19 <lbt> if manual just a typo :)
May 19 20:10:35 <DawnFoster> let me check
May 19 20:11:02 <TSCHAKeee> music break: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqcizZebcaU
May 19 20:11:13 <lbt> either way, if you're replacing it I won't file a bug
May 19 20:13:25 <DawnFoster> exactly.
May 19 20:13:33 <DawnFoster> I just deleted and re-added your feed
May 19 20:13:44 <lbt> ta
May 19 20:14:08 <DawnFoster> I think it has problems updating your feed. I had some issues getting it to update your feed before.
May 19 20:15:03 <CosmoHill> bare skin + powerbook = aaaaahhhhh!
May 19 20:15:06 <lbt> hmm. I think it's blog.com ... not sure now
May 19 20:15:14 <lbt> In other news my emails don't seem to be getting to -dev .... :(
May 19 20:15:22 <DawnFoster> weird
May 19 20:15:31 <DawnFoster> what email address are yuo subscribed under?
May 19 20:15:38 <lbt> david@dgreaves.com
May 19 20:15:53 <lbt> I sent one out at 7:30am BST
May 19 20:16:00 <CosmoHill> lbt: should you of said that in the channel?
May 19 20:16:12 <Stskeeps> a real man has a spam filter anyway :P
May 19 20:16:13 <lbt> ahhh.... spam!!!
May 19 20:16:22 <CosmoHill> hold on a second
May 19 20:16:24 * lbt has been on lkml for years...
May 19 20:16:30 <lbt> spam is an illusion
May 19 20:16:47 <lbt> DawnFoster: it had several cc's and at least one of them isn't a subscriber
May 19 20:16:52 <DawnFoster> hmmm, can you check your mail server for errors?
May 19 20:16:56 <lbt> sure
May 19 20:16:59 <DawnFoster> lbt, that wouldn't do it
May 19 20:17:10 <lbt> just mentioning in case
May 19 20:17:13 <CosmoHill> Stskeeps: my junk folder: http://black-flag.co.uk/files/spam.png
May 19 20:17:19 <DawnFoster> I suspect it's the stubborn reverse dns issue we've been trying to resolve
May 19 20:18:15 <DawnFoster> it's been trashing messages if the dns entry for your outbound smtp server doesn't resolve
May 19 20:18:31 <DawnFoster> we thought we had it fixed, but now I'm not sure
May 19 20:19:13 <lbt> OK
May 19 20:19:34 <DawnFoster> btw, your message isn't trapped in moderation (except for the other message from your nokia email address)
May 19 20:19:55 <thiago_home> subscribe both addresses and turn off delivery for one of them
May 19 20:20:34 <lbt> I can't subscribe the nokia one :(
May 19 20:20:45 <lbt> I use webmail and can't set filters/rules
May 19 20:20:53 <thiago_home> you can
May 19 20:20:54 <lbt> they'd all hit the inbox
May 19 20:21:00 <thiago_home> but you need to use IE to configure them
May 19 20:21:07 <lbt> ah
May 19 20:21:12 <lbt> I don't have one of those
May 19 20:21:21 <thiago_home> nor do I
May 19 20:21:26 <lcuk> friends dont let friends use IE
May 19 20:21:37 <thiago_home> I VNC into one of the test machines to manipulate my rules
May 19 20:21:43 <lbt> <grin>
May 19 20:21:45 <w00t_> lol
May 19 20:21:58 <DawnFoster> or you can borrow IE from your least tech savvy relative :)
May 19 20:22:22 <lbt> heh... the house is pure
May 19 20:22:34 <thiago_home> we also have a "kiosk PC" in the hallway with the standard Nokia Windows image
May 19 20:22:35 <lcuk> lol DawnFoster sorry, but i wouldnt enter any important information on the machine of an unsavvy user
May 19 20:22:43 <DawnFoster> second-cousin, granny, whatever :)
May 19 20:22:55 <thiago_home> the expense approval tool for example doesn't work on Linux
May 19 20:23:02 <thiago_home> .xls that has macros that run Outlook
May 19 20:23:15 <DawnFoster> I have a desktop at home running windows that I boot up a couple times a year for IE-related issues :)
May 19 20:23:52 <DawnFoster> thiago_home - same issue here. There are a few work-related things that require IE. *shudder*
May 19 20:24:16 <lbt> it's nice isn't it :)
May 19 20:24:27 <Stskeeps> only thing i use my XP vm for is, strangely enough, to unpack the linux drivers within intel EGD :/
May 19 20:24:37 <lbt> shut up bsd-boy
May 19 20:24:44 <lbt> or is it solaris... ?
May 19 20:24:44 <Stskeeps> oi
May 19 20:24:45 <Stskeeps> :P
May 19 20:24:52 <Stskeeps> opensolaris, close enough
May 19 20:24:56 <lbt> yeah
May 19 20:25:35 <thiago_home> have a couple of those too
May 19 20:26:09 <lcuk> throught choice or contract tho :D
May 19 20:26:33 <lcuk> qt is ported to solaris isnt it
May 19 20:26:39 <thiago_home> yeah
May 19 20:26:42 <thiago_home> all Unix
May 19 20:27:10 * CosmoHill pets thiago_home 
May 19 20:27:21 <CosmoHill> I have no idea why I just did that but enjoy it anyway
May 19 20:27:22 <thiago_home> though we don't support IRIX anymore
May 19 20:27:26 <thiago_home> may IRIX RIP
May 19 20:27:34 <w00t_> rest in pieces?
May 19 20:27:39 <w00t_> :-)
May 19 20:27:44 <thiago_home> that too
May 19 20:27:50 <thiago_home> we have some pieces and parts left over
May 19 20:28:01 <Stskeeps> we had some irix machines at my uni, while the fancy PCs were used by older students
May 19 20:28:18 <thiago_home> Stskeeps: yeah, my uni had some too
May 19 20:28:25 <lcuk> i think the mainframe i found a family of dead mice in was an irix one
May 19 20:28:34 <lcuk> the name sounds familiar
May 19 20:28:49 <thiago_home> the interesting thing is that the machines we had were stuff a local uni threw away
May 19 20:28:54 <thiago_home> :-)
May 19 20:29:04 <Stskeeps> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SGI_O2
May 19 20:29:18 <CosmoHill> dead mice? eww
May 19 20:29:25 * lbt has an Indy briefcase
May 19 20:29:37 <lbt> and an SGI Tag Heur
May 19 20:30:01 <lbt> and a T-shirt that says "My other computer is a Cray" on the back
May 19 20:30:14 <lbt> and "My other computer is an SGI" on the front
May 19 20:30:30 <lbt> I love that T-shirt...
May 19 20:30:35 <dneary> lbt, Tell me if I'm being too hard or unrealistic here: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1303#c8
May 19 20:30:45 <dneary> lbt, What do you think?
May 19 20:30:50 <lbt> reading
May 19 20:31:42 <mikhas> regarding "cross-platform" ... the latest project templates from Qt Creator dont look cross-platform at all =)
May 19 20:32:11 <lcuk> mikhas, ?
May 19 20:32:19 <mikhas> lcuk, try it
May 19 20:32:31 <CosmoHill> wb DawnFoster
May 19 20:32:35 <lcuk> ides are fickle, whats it saying to you
May 19 20:32:40 <dneary> hi DawnFoster
May 19 20:32:40 <mikhas> it includes some #ifdefs in main.cpp by default
May 19 20:32:43 <lbt> dneary: I call bullshit
May 19 20:32:59 <lcuk> mikhas, that sounds normal
May 19 20:33:00 <mikhas> err, #if/#else I mean
May 19 20:33:03 <dneary> I'd be interested in your opinion too... either I'm being unrealistic, or you can help :)
May 19 20:33:06 <lcuk> you should see the boilerplate required for gtk
May 19 20:33:15 <w00t_> mikhas: reported it to the creator people?
May 19 20:33:20 <thiago_home> mikhas: the ones with #ifdef Q_OS_SYMBIAN showFullscreen() ?
May 19 20:33:23 <w00t_> (and asked about it?)
May 19 20:33:26 <dneary> DawnFoster, http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1303 (esp. comment 8)
May 19 20:33:27 <w00t_> ah, good
May 19 20:33:56 <mikhas> thiago_home, yup, "#if defined(Q_WS_S60) || defined(Q_WS_MAEMO_5)"
May 19 20:34:09 <dneary> lbt, On me?
May 19 20:34:10 <lbt> a legal document is a formal expression of a layperson's wishes
May 19 20:34:14 <lbt> no, on them
May 19 20:34:22 <thiago_home> mikhas: right
May 19 20:34:42 <dneary> lbt, Having dealt with lawyers, I know that lawyers do not work in public, they work with their client
May 19 20:34:46 <thiago_home> mikhas: we're fixing that inside the show() method now, but we didn't fix it in time. Behaviour change.
May 19 20:34:50 <lcuk> thiago_home, i think hes meaning it could be done internal to the api itself
May 19 20:34:54 <dneary> But their client is free to do with that work what they will
May 19 20:35:00 <lcuk> ^-^
May 19 20:35:00 <thiago_home> lcuk: it can and it will be fixed.
May 19 20:35:06 <lbt> yes, but discussing the objectives of the document is reasonable
May 19 20:35:08 <w00t_> thiago_home: "in time" for 4.7? or the latest Creator release
May 19 20:35:09 <thiago_home> it's just that it didn't occur to us
May 19 20:35:10 <lcuk> yup just read :D cool stuff thiago_home
May 19 20:35:17 <lbt> and the draft is pretty much just that
May 19 20:35:22 <thiago_home> besides, MAemo 5 doesn't have non-maximised windows
May 19 20:35:22 <mikhas> lcuk, what I mean is that the abstraction is leaky, once more
May 19 20:35:29 <lcuk> thiago_home, actually..
May 19 20:35:32 <mikhas> thiago_home, oh *I* know that
May 19 20:35:38 <dneary> lbt, It just feels to me (like I said) as if the LF feels like they need Intel & Nokia approval for anything official
May 19 20:35:42 <lbt> getting community input on the draft is also reasonable
May 19 20:35:54 <lcuk> mikhas, sure theres a LOT to encapsulate and hold mikhas
May 19 20:36:02 <lbt> (unless the LF is just a rubber stamp...)
May 19 20:36:17 <lcuk> the new n900 appears to have floating HWR app
May 19 20:36:23 <lcuk> the hong kong one
May 19 20:36:34 <lcuk> and theres floating notificaitons
May 19 20:36:43 <lcuk> etc
May 19 20:38:12 <frals> floating notifications?
May 19 20:38:22 <thiago_home> lcuk: PR1.2?
May 19 20:38:26 <lcuk> yeah the little popups that come
May 19 20:38:33 <lcuk> when you get a new message
May 19 20:38:43 <frals> lcuk: got a link?
May 19 20:39:02 <lcuk> thiago_home, yeah but it includes a custom HWR app for asian handwriting
May 19 20:39:08 <javispedro> the floating HWR windows are unredirected
May 19 20:39:16 <javispedro> a bit ugly
May 19 20:39:29 * thiago_home needs to upgrade to the new PR1.2 again
May 19 20:39:35 <javispedro> well, not really ugly from a user pov.
May 19 20:42:10 <lcuk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkRJPJnKmJU
May 19 20:42:18 <lcuk> frals, example of HWR
May 19 20:42:38 <lcuk> anyway, the point being, not all uses of n900 require full screen windows
May 19 20:42:38 <frals> lcuk: im interested in "floating notifications" and whats different from current one :D
May 19 20:43:31 <lcuk> frals, that was just an indicator that its possible, you could make your own if so desired just people usually dont because they take device ala cart
May 19 20:43:50 <lcuk> e ^ ;)
May 19 21:10:30 <lbt> DawnFoster: FYI I can't find any problems my end ... but I send via my ISP as an exim smtp smart-host
May 19 21:11:15 <thiago_home> lbt: you don't get any bounces back from your ISP?
May 19 21:11:42 <lbt> I do
May 19 21:11:45 <lbt> but I didn't
May 19 21:13:46 <DawnFoster> these don't come as bouncebacks
May 19 21:13:51 <DawnFoster> usually in the mail server logs
May 19 21:14:10 <DawnFoster> it gets rejected with no notice to the user
May 19 21:14:47 <lbt> my client -> local exim which sends to ISP smtp...
May 19 21:15:06 <lbt> so I only really see my local exim logs - I don't try to send to the ml myself
May 19 21:15:38 <DawnFoster> do you have another outbound smtp server you can use while we finish tracking this down?
May 19 21:15:42 <lbt> smtp.ukfsn.org FWIW
May 19 21:16:30 <lbt> I sent a mail on 16/May which got through
May 19 21:16:51 <DawnFoster> weird
May 19 21:20:34 <DawnFoster> was it just one message that was rejected? can you try sending it again and see if it goes through
May 19 21:21:29 <lbt> OK
May 19 21:23:01 <lbt> hmm, actually I sent 2 at around that time
May 19 21:25:12 <lbt> sent
May 19 21:26:27 <thiago_home> SMTP delay in bouncing undelivered messages is 96 hours, usually
May 19 21:26:44 <thiago_home> but that would mean your ISP is facing temporary delivery failures to meego.com
May 19 21:27:00 <lbt> honestly I've given up looking at bounces due to back-scatter
May 19 21:27:12 <lbt> I get thousands of false ones
May 19 21:28:51 <DawnFoster> lbt: just received one of your posts to the ml
May 19 21:29:33 <lbt> DawnFoster: does it say resent twice?
May 19 21:30:04 <DawnFoster> 2nd resend
May 19 21:30:59 <lbt> OK, so we can assume a glitch this morning - hmmm and I wonder... it could have been my fault.... I was tunnelling
May 19 21:31:23 <DawnFoster> who knows - could be on our end, too.
May 19 21:31:34 <lbt> I'll dig - it may turn out that you've helped my uncover a but in my tunnel setup :)
May 19 21:31:58 <DawnFoster> things aren't as stable on our end as I would like (again waiting on servers to arrive at OSU) :)
May 19 21:32:15 <lbt> FYI, follow up to add some support for dneary's issue: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1303
May 19 21:32:19 <DawnFoster> let me know if you find out where the issue originated.
May 19 21:32:32 <lbt> will do
May 19 21:38:22 <lbt> 'night all
May 19 21:41:03 <DawnFoster> later lbt
May 19 22:21:24 <wazd> oh, maybe I can find some skilled 3D modellers in here? :)
May 19 22:22:51 <pupnik> hey wazd
May 19 22:23:02 <pupnik> what's schluppin
May 19 22:23:09 <wazd>  pupnik: hello-hello :)
May 19 22:24:11 <wazd> pupnik: http://conversations.nokia.com/design-by-community/
May 19 22:25:37 <pupnik> whoah!
May 19 22:25:46 <pupnik> when's deadline?
May 19 22:26:10 <pupnik> 'may'?
May 19 22:26:48 <wazd> pupnik: well, I don't think that there is any deadline for what I want to do since it's all just for fun :)
May 19 22:27:29 <pupnik> for me it is openpandora with a swivel/tablet lid.  boom. done.
May 19 22:27:31 <wazd> pupnik: just to design own concept out of these specs (well, throwing away crap like optical zoom and stuff) and compare it to nokias
May 19 22:27:35 <pupnik> ah
May 19 22:27:49 <pupnik> <- a man of simple tastes
May 19 22:28:03 <wazd> pupnik: :) me too actually :)
May 19 22:28:31 <pupnik> check out N8 - beautiful device
May 19 22:28:49 <pupnik> makes me want to put it in my pants
May 19 22:29:22 <pupnik> add a keyboard and i'll be 500 euro poorer next year
May 19 22:30:01 <thiago_home> N8 is Symbian
May 19 22:30:26 * pupnik claps slowly
May 19 22:31:39 <pupnik> or how about n97 mini design?  that swivel action is hot
May 19 22:31:51 <pupnik> or tilt, whatever
May 19 22:31:54 <wazd> pupnik: maybe but for me it moved too close to SE design guidelines :)
May 19 22:31:57 <thiago_home> I like that better than the N900
May 19 22:32:21 <wazd> pupnik: n97/mini tilt keyboard is hot indeed. Too bad that that's the only hot thing in it :D
May 19 22:33:40 <pupnik> i like the n97/mini camera, excepting the video.  http://www.flickr.com/photos/arnim-s/4586759473/in/photostream/
May 19 22:35:25 <bogart_> there's a rumour device out there that looks like a cross between the N8 and the N900
May 19 22:36:54 <pupnik> n900 is pretty darn close to perfect for me
May 19 22:38:37 <tripzero> just set your expectations low, and you'll love it
May 19 22:38:56 <wazd> pupnik: a bit thick imo :)
May 19 22:39:02 <wazd> pupnik: tiny bit
May 19 22:39:41 <wazd> pupnik: even for my gargantuan hands :D
May 19 22:39:44 <pupnik> could we build sensors/buttons around the front edge bezel?  on the left and right?
May 19 22:39:59 <pupnik> 'we', what am i saying...
May 19 22:40:33 <wazd> pupnik: well, usually there is a sreen parts under the bezel
May 19 22:41:17 <wazd> are*
May 19 22:41:18 <pupnik> just looking at thumbs, holding ipod touch, n900, and other phones
May 19 22:41:51 <lcuk> pupnik, that would be uber cool and somewhere where a capacity reactioin would be amazing on
May 19 22:42:02 <wazd> pupnik: oh, there can be extended touchscreen area, like in Pre for example
May 19 22:42:15 <lcuk> to actually get touch/direction feedback from the bexel itself to use it like joystick
May 19 22:42:21 <lcuk> bezel
May 19 22:42:24 <pupnik> bingo lcuk
May 19 22:42:33 <lcuk> i see what you are getting at :)
May 19 22:43:02 <lcuk> would have to have underbezel lighting to be supercool
May 19 22:43:08 <lcuk> running strip around the edge :D
May 19 22:43:15 <pupnik> creative idea - nice
May 19 22:43:36 <lcuk> you could then highlight different pieces in different colors ;)
May 19 22:43:45 <lcuk> just takes some fairy lights
May 19 22:43:46 <pupnik> i love looking at the ipod touch -- when it is OFF
May 19 22:45:23 <wazd> oh, and 16x optical zoom would be nice :)
May 19 22:45:42 <lcuk> pupnik, you seen the knight rider keyboard mod?
May 19 22:45:54 <lcuk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3pvdFpA1II
May 19 22:45:55 <lcuk> if not
May 19 22:46:00 <pupnik> ty
May 19 22:47:22 <pupnik> oh yeah i heard about it
May 19 22:47:31 <pupnik> looks fun :)
May 19 22:47:54 <lcuk> its a shame they arent colored
May 19 22:48:05 <lcuk> you have 6 big keypads
May 19 22:48:37 <pupnik> could be useful to hilight key groups if you are using one as a d-pad for a game
May 19 22:48:40 <lcuk> you can map the closest keys to turn on each led and use the group like an easy use macro
May 19 22:48:46 <pupnik> hmmmm
May 19 22:49:05 <pupnik> did i tell you i wore through the n900 keyboard?
May 19 22:49:17 <lcuk> haha
May 19 22:49:18 <pupnik> a,s,d m and k
May 19 22:49:22 <lcuk> its your sandpaper fingers dude
May 19 22:49:31 <lcuk> you did same to your 810
May 19 22:49:37 * pupnik nods sadly
May 19 22:49:54 <lcuk> i think you are amongst the first lol
May 19 22:50:04 <lcuk> ive seen a couple of other 810s that look similar to yours
May 19 22:50:33 <pupnik> well visiting finland got me motivated a bit again
May 19 22:51:01 <pupnik> maybe some fun things will happen
May 19 22:51:16 <pupnik> what's news with you
May 19 22:56:23 <lcuk> pupnik, been busy @ work as usual, went shopping today for tracys bday pressie
May 19 22:56:47 <pupnik> hope that went well
May 19 22:56:57 <lcuk> better than expected lol
May 19 22:57:09 <lcuk> parking outside john lewis saved trek through many more shops ;)
May 19 22:57:21 <lcuk> thankfully they have enough pretty things lol
May 19 22:57:26 * pupnik googles that
May 19 22:58:36 <lcuk> pupnik, it was almost bad tho, they put the shoes near the doors
May 19 22:58:55 <lcuk> not content with looking on the way in she had to spend a few hours on the way out too :D
May 19 22:59:42 <pupnik> my gal wants a vaio-p, in purple/magenta
May 19 23:00:07 <lcuk> has she got a pocket big enough
May 19 23:00:11 <pupnik> purse
May 19 23:00:24 <lcuk> mary poppins bag!
May 19 23:00:36 <lcuk> im surprised at the stuff tracy pulls out of hers
May 19 23:00:50 <pupnik> i'm rather jealous of purses
May 19 23:01:01 <lcuk> you would suit one
May 19 23:01:04 <pupnik> lol
May 19 23:01:06 <lcuk> :D
May 19 23:01:42 <pupnik> one guy i know carries a fanny pack.  i tend to prefer coats with lots of pockets
May 19 23:02:31 <lcuk> im quite happy with my laptop bag atm hen i need extra pockets
May 19 23:02:53 <pupnik> mhm yep
May 19 23:03:46 <lcuk> im vanishing anyway, gnite arnim \o
May 19 23:04:14 <pupnik> chintoe
May 19 23:57:03 <Termana> good morning
May 20 00:01:11 <CosmoHill> night night Termana
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 20 03:00:00 2010