**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 22 02:59:57 2010
May 22 07:48:30 <gxenusmil> Good morning guys!!
May 22 07:52:02 <gxenusmil> I'm trying install Meego on a Asus EEEPC 900 but I can not start the livecd
May 22 07:52:18 <gxenusmil> the X server doesn't start
May 22 07:52:22 <gxenusmil> any clues ?
May 22 08:14:18 <pupnik> xserver log gxenusmil
May 22 10:21:52 <vincenzo> Hi I'm a lecturer at "Università degli Studi di Siena", I would like to compare about meego/android at the kernel+stack level... but I can't find anything about meego's kernel
May 22 10:22:25 <thiago_home> it's a stock Linux kernel
May 22 10:23:02 <vincenzo> thiago_home: aren't there any android like PM patches?
May 22 10:23:31 <vincenzo> thiago_home: I mean, no optimizations needed to make the devices last longer?
May 22 10:23:44 <vincenzo> (s/device/battery/g)
May 22 10:23:57 <thiago_home> if android submitted them upstream to the kernel, then they are in meego's too
May 22 10:25:07 <vincenzo> thiago_home: that is the point... android did, but they have not been accepted (yet, but some bits I doubt will)...
May 22 10:25:22 <thiago_home> when they are, they'll be in meego's too
May 22 10:25:31 <thiago_home> Nokia has submitted its patches upstream
May 22 10:25:47 <thiago_home> OMAP3 multimedia, GPRS/3G support, etc.
May 22 10:26:08 <Stskeeps> a lot of PM stuff on omap3..
May 22 10:26:37 <vincenzo> thiago_home, Stskeeps: is there any reference anywhere about the patches?
May 22 10:26:58 <thiago_home> all in LKML
May 22 10:27:21 <thiago_home> it's only a quarter million emails per year to sift through
May 22 10:27:34 <vincenzo> hehe, indeed!
May 22 10:27:56 <thiago_home> you can also search the kernel's Git log
May 22 10:28:21 <thiago_home> Nokia is the 4th contributor to the kernel
May 22 10:28:42 <vincenzo> any hint about the developer names or maybe a copyright notice I can search for?
May 22 10:28:54 <thiago_home> well, Nokia's and Intel's
May 22 10:29:00 <thiago_home> and Intel is the 2nd
May 22 10:29:08 <thiago_home> so you're in for a lot of data
May 22 10:29:25 <vincenzo> hehe, that would make >=50% of kernel patches :-)
May 22 10:30:24 <vincenzo> maybe knowing the name of the relevant submitters would help a little bit more :-)
May 22 10:30:41 <thiago_home> I'd say search for recent contributions and anything related to ARM
May 22 10:31:35 <Stskeeps> vincenzo: nokia.com
May 22 10:32:30 <vincenzo> thiago_home, Stskeeps: tnx... I will do my homework :-)
May 22 10:32:50 <thiago_home> as for the rest of the stack, in MeeGo it's a standard Linux distribution
May 22 10:32:54 <thiago_home> in Android, it isn't
May 22 10:33:34 <vincenzo> thiago_home: yes, meego stack looks great with Qt on top of it ;-)
May 22 10:35:04 <vincenzo> thiago_home: in principle, if android patches gets merged upstream, one could run android apps on meego... the other way around looks more problematic to me...
May 22 10:35:50 <pupnik___> vincenzo: there are some good posts explaining why that is difficult
May 22 10:35:50 <thiago_home> it looks like you skipped half a dozen steps in the stack in that statement
May 22 10:36:18 <thiago_home> android apps ara Java, compiled into Dalvik bytecode, and they use Skia for a graphics system and WM
May 22 10:36:31 <thiago_home> that has nothing to do with the kernel patches
May 22 10:36:33 <vincenzo> thiago_home: I'm in the pre-homework-done phase yet :-)
May 22 10:37:13 <vincenzo> thiago_home: but I read that android exposes a lot of PM and Binder stuff to the userspace.
May 22 10:37:48 <vincenzo> pupnik___: do you have any link handy?
May 22 10:38:58 <thiago_home> whatever they do, it must go through a layer of adaptation
May 22 10:39:28 <thiago_home> which could be done in any other distribution too
May 22 10:39:37 <thiago_home> I have no idea what Binder is
May 22 10:49:27 <vincenzo> thiago_home: binder is an in-kernel IPC facility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBinder
May 22 10:59:01 <tmzt> the actual android patches to the kernel are very minor, but there are hardware-specific interfaces that are only used by the android userspace
May 22 11:18:52 <vincenzo> tmzt: reading this http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2009/11/04/#20091104-android_mythbusters looks like android kernel changes are bigger than "minor"
May 22 11:24:02 <tmzt> he mixed userspace and kernel issues (udev is a userspace issue)
May 22 11:24:23 <tmzt> by minor I mean that adding them to a kernel doesn't really affect it, there's no incompatibility
May 22 11:24:42 <tmzt> that's not the case with the hardware related api changes, even fbdev is changed in an incompatible way
May 22 11:29:50 <write__erase> Did you see any official anouncement for the meego Conference 2010 in Dublin ? http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010 is not really explicit . Thx
May 22 12:31:07 <summel> are there any instructions on how to install/upgrad successfully
May 22 12:31:32 <summel> everytime i try an update i get an IO error and then i have to rewrite the image to my usb stick :o
May 22 12:48:44 <Cosmo[PB]> :D
May 22 15:11:57 * Cosmo[PB] sniffles 
May 22 15:12:19 <Stskeeps> your lecturer found these logs?
May 22 15:12:19 <Stskeeps> :P
May 22 15:12:58 <CosmoHill> my hayfever is playing up today
May 22 15:20:42 <ZogG> DocScrutinizer, you are
May 22 15:31:35 <TurboVomit> hi
May 22 15:31:43 <CosmoHill> eww
May 22 15:31:55 <TurboVomit> i tried meego on my eeepc 1008HA
May 22 15:32:11 <TurboVomit> but after login, nothing happen
May 22 15:32:28 <CosmoHill> you have text only?
May 22 15:32:32 <TurboVomit> yes
May 22 15:32:36 <Stskeeps> coderop release?
May 22 15:32:37 <CosmoHill> that sounds right
May 22 15:32:49 <TurboVomit> no graphical interface
May 22 15:32:54 <CosmoHill> that sounds right
May 22 15:33:00 <happyblob> there isnt a GUI at the mo
May 22 15:33:04 <TurboVomit> ok
May 22 15:33:16 <TurboVomit> nice splash screen
May 22 15:33:20 <happyblob> should be coming the end of this month i think
May 22 15:33:25 <TurboVomit> ok
May 22 15:33:29 <TurboVomit> i will wait
May 22 15:33:37 <happyblob> s'what im doing :)
May 22 15:34:12 <happyblob> open question- can you easily put xfce on top of the current meego image?
May 22 15:34:30 <Stskeeps> once the :Extra ARM repos are publisehd
May 22 15:35:16 <happyblob> so your m0 for n810 is graphical while the official version isn't, i'm impressed :-)
May 22 15:36:30 <happyblob> by which i mean i am genuinely impressed by your efforts, wasn't being sarcastic about the official project!
May 22 15:37:40 <Stskeeps> hopefully official one would have a handset UX, which is not out yet..
May 22 15:38:37 <happyblob> ah i meant to ask if the n810 is going with the handset or netbook ux
May 22 15:38:54 <happyblob> i assumed netbook
May 22 15:39:56 <Stskeeps> netbook UX requires opengl, i think
May 22 15:40:01 <Stskeeps> if we can get handset working, sure, but no bets
May 22 15:40:29 <happyblob> ah ok. I thought open gl on the n810 did happen in the end, i.e. you guys got hold of the right drivers?
May 22 15:40:42 <happyblob> i'm punching above my weight here, never really understood quite what was happened
May 22 15:40:57 <Stskeeps> we did, but they're broken on our funky framebuffer etup
May 22 15:40:58 <Stskeeps> setup
May 22 15:41:30 <happyblob> righto :)
May 22 15:41:32 <TurboVomit> meego don't use moblin interface?
May 22 15:41:46 <happyblob> the netbook ux is very similar
May 22 15:42:00 <happyblob> but yeah the phone ux is something new i think
May 22 15:42:57 <DocScrutinizer> ZogG: no, DocScrutinizer51 isn't
May 22 15:42:57 <happyblob> on your eeepc, it'll look quite a lot like moblin
May 22 15:43:23 <TSCHAKeee> Stskeeps, i've been following the work being done on the n810, i'm actually amazed you guys have gotten as far as you have...
May 22 15:44:30 <happyblob> +1 keep up the good work!
May 22 15:46:05 <happyblob> oh sorry, one more thing.. is meego netbook on the joggler going to happen? i'm worried- due to the GMA thing
May 22 15:46:47 <vincenzo>  the netbook UX will look like moblin, but using qt. right?
May 22 15:47:03 <Stskeeps> happyblob: no idea, but does netbook really apply well to that?.
May 22 15:47:27 <happyblob> tbh better than UNR IMO :-)
May 22 15:47:45 <Stskeeps> a slate or handset / MID is prolly better
May 22 15:48:38 <happyblob> yeah i guess so. Although strictly speaking meego doesn't have a MID UX and i kinda assumed tablets/MIDs would lean more toward netbook
May 22 15:48:58 <TSCHAKeee> the handset UX is the mid UX
May 22 15:49:06 <happyblob> oh okay pardon me
May 22 15:49:14 <happyblob> didn't know how scalable it was going to be
May 22 15:49:23 <happyblob> but i guess phones these days have similar resolutions anyway :)
May 22 15:49:36 <happyblob> similar to slates/PCs i mean
May 22 15:50:09 <happyblob> thats a handy piece of knowledge actually, looking forward to seeing that UX in all its glory :)
May 22 16:06:13 <th0br0> heya fellas.
May 22 16:07:41 <happyblob> howdy
May 22 16:39:17 <vincenzo> after some investigation about the mergo kernel... I just discovered that it is indeed really a plain kernel! It is great that all the effort is pushed upstream...
May 22 16:40:16 <vincenzo> but it leaves me with a question: is meego more a new distro or a new (desk/mobile/*pad)top?
May 22 16:40:50 <berserker>  every file in kernel source is a patch
May 22 16:41:00 <ml-mobile> new distro intended for such devices
May 22 16:45:14 <vincenzo> What I meant is: will the meego project be carried on like *buntu, i.e. they provide the structure and a couple default UIs for others to extend it with new UIs [e.g. (x/l/edu/*)buntu] or...
May 22 16:45:48 <vincenzo> like, say, KDE: they provide the user experience for distros to ship it?
May 22 16:52:57 <th0br0> vincenzo: meego is a distribution of its
May 22 16:52:58 <th0br0> own
May 22 16:56:34 <berserker> meego provides resources for others to do real distribution, like system integration companies
May 22 16:57:08 <vincenzo> but it also brings a (some actually) new UI shells...
May 22 16:59:45 <vincenzo> I'm trying to undestand if it is beeing built with the idea that other UI's could be shipped by other parties on top of meego's (greatly standard) stack...
May 22 17:00:25 <Tm_T> I think that's the point
May 22 17:00:46 <vincenzo> E.g: could I buy a future N9xx and yum install plasma-mid on it?
May 22 17:01:21 <Tm_T> you mean plasma-mobile
May 22 17:01:44 <vincenzo> yup... I'm not good at rememberimg names :-(
May 22 17:02:04 <Tm_T> there was plasma-mid in the distant past (:
May 22 17:06:29 <berserker> the middleware part may be the point if other UIs could be applied, if it acts just like android to bundles dalvik Java VM and application framework then chances are little
May 22 17:24:56 <summel> so are there any installation isntructions?
May 22 17:27:26 <FatalSaint> on what?
May 22 17:27:27 <FatalSaint> http://wiki.meego.com/ARM
May 22 17:27:32 <summel> netbook
May 22 17:28:11 <TSCHAKeee> i love it
May 22 17:28:13 <TSCHAKeee> when people
May 22 17:28:17 <TSCHAKeee> don't even bother
May 22 17:28:19 <TSCHAKeee> looking
May 22 17:28:41 <summel> i looked :O
May 22 17:28:48 <TSCHAKeee> where?
May 22 17:29:20 <FatalSaint> Im actually not seeing a netbook instruction on the wiki (just a quick search tho) either...
May 22 17:29:30 <FatalSaint> Im pretty sure you use a usb image
May 22 17:29:31 <summel> in the wiki and on google :o
May 22 17:29:39 <summel> yes i did but there is no installer
May 22 17:29:46 <summel> also updating doe not work :/
May 22 17:30:02 <FatalSaint> did you search the forum?
May 22 17:30:08 <summel> when i update it braks with an IO error and then i have to rewrite the image to the usb stick
May 22 17:30:23 <summel> i didnt notice there were forums
May 22 17:30:28 <summel> also i dont like forums :P
May 22 17:30:49 <FatalSaint> http://forum.meego.com
May 22 17:32:03 <FatalSaint> although even then all I'm seeing is people mentioning the USB image.
May 22 17:32:15 <summel> and complaining that there is no UI xD
May 22 17:32:26 <FatalSaint> that too.
May 22 17:32:26 <Stskeeps> any released image except for IVI boots into either a xterm or a console prompt
May 22 17:32:41 <summel> yes i know that
May 22 17:32:46 <FatalSaint> I think he wants how to install it to his internal drive tho skeeps
May 22 17:32:46 <summel> but still i would love to install it
May 22 17:32:52 <summel> and succesfully update it
May 22 17:32:54 <summel> :o
May 22 17:32:56 <FatalSaint> instead of running from the USB
May 22 17:32:58 <summel> no
May 22 17:33:01 <summel> arr
May 22 17:33:02 <summel> yes
May 22 17:33:05 <Stskeeps> think installer is broken in codedrop
May 22 17:33:17 <summel> no there isnt even an installer in the image
May 22 17:33:27 <summel> there is an entry in grub but it says file nout found
May 22 17:33:27 <summel> :D
May 22 17:37:23 <summel> so there is no way to install meego on the hard drive atm?
May 22 17:40:09 <FatalSaint> I can't say for certain.. but it sounds like no if the installer is broken.
May 22 17:40:50 <FatalSaint> could probably do it yourself by copying the files over and setting up grub properly..
May 22 17:40:51 <FatalSaint> :D
May 22 17:43:14 <summel> hmm ok... but how would i fix updating?
May 22 17:43:18 <summel> :O
May 22 17:45:09 <FatalSaint> I don't know.  But an I/O error sounds like a USB Stick problem..
May 22 17:48:04 <summel> i tried different ones
May 22 17:48:05 <summel> ;o
May 22 17:49:38 <FatalSaint> not sure then.  Have to wait till someone that uses it all the time wakes up.  I haven't booted MeeGo in a while.  Waiting for the UI/UX release.
May 22 17:50:18 <summel> yes that would be better :)
May 22 17:50:31 <summel> but the image that is availeable now at least has wifi and screen :)
May 22 17:50:45 <Stskeeps> FatalSaint: still have a n810 btw?
May 22 18:12:16 <Stskeeps> summel: you still have your codedrop USB stick?
May 22 18:12:23 <summel> codedrop?
May 22 18:12:29 <Stskeeps> well, the one you were trying to boot
May 22 18:12:44 <summel> yes but i would have to rewrite the image onto it
May 22 18:12:48 <summel> so in 1-2 minutes :)
May 22 18:12:51 <Stskeeps> ok
May 22 18:13:19 <Stskeeps> when you have booted it up, could you ls -l /home for me?
May 22 18:13:26 <summel> sure :)
May 22 18:14:19 <Stskeeps> i am wondering if i've spotted mic2 bug, so
May 22 18:15:08 <th0br0> why?
May 22 18:15:19 <Stskeeps> my /home/meego is owned by root :)
May 22 18:15:59 <th0br0> o.O
May 22 18:16:28 <CosmoHill> hey th0br0
May 22 18:16:33 <th0br0> heya CosmoHill
May 22 18:26:41 <summel> Stskeeps: its owned by meego
May 22 18:27:19 <Stskeeps> hmm
May 22 18:27:27 <Stskeeps> what image are you on?
May 22 18:27:31 <Stskeeps> ie, which did you download
May 22 18:27:54 <neopsis> can meego run on vmware???
May 22 18:28:25 <thiago_home> yes, provided vmware can emulate OpenGL and Atom instructions
May 22 18:28:27 <thiago_home> can it?
May 22 18:28:42 <Stskeeps> it can if the host does atom stuff i guess
May 22 18:28:48 <neopsis> how?
May 22 18:29:20 <neopsis> i don't think there is an option that I can emulate OpenGL and Atom instructions...
May 22 18:29:26 <neopsis> or none that I know of
May 22 18:30:02 <summel> Stskeeps: the one from the download page? :D
May 22 18:30:27 <summel> http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/images/
May 22 18:30:36 <summel> netbook core usbimg
May 22 18:30:54 <summel> what is ivi?
May 22 18:30:56 <Stskeeps> k
May 22 18:31:09 <summel> and what is aava?
May 22 18:31:18 <summel> or shcdk?
May 22 18:31:34 <thiago_home> www.aavamobile.com
May 22 18:31:46 <thiago_home> ivi = in-vehicle infotainment
May 22 18:31:57 <summel> i see
May 22 18:32:04 <thiago_home> shcdk I have no clue
May 22 18:32:16 <summel> so aava is a good lookin frerunner?
May 22 18:32:16 <summel> :D
May 22 18:32:31 <thiago_home> with Atom processors
May 22 18:32:35 <summel> <3
May 22 19:54:55 <ak> hi
May 22 19:55:15 <Stskeeps> hi
May 22 19:55:46 <ak> when is meego coming out for N900
May 22 19:56:22 <Stskeeps> such a multi-faceted question :)
May 22 19:56:44 <Stskeeps> if you mean the first meego OS, ie, not the harmattan one, running on N900, it already came out with the first meego codedrop
May 22 19:57:15 <ak> no :P i mean the harmattan one
May 22 19:57:32 <Stskeeps> don't know, ask nokia :)
May 22 19:57:34 <Tm_T> "when ready"
May 22 19:57:40 <Stskeeps> "if ever", too
May 22 19:57:55 <ak> and what do you mean it already came out
May 22 19:57:58 <Tm_T> "when ready" applies to that too, I guess
May 22 19:58:46 <ak> what about nokia's maemo 5 pr 1.2
May 22 19:58:52 <ak> is it released
May 22 19:59:08 <Stskeeps> nop
May 22 19:59:25 <ak> how come there are leaked ones all over the web
May 22 19:59:44 <ak> and it is confirmed to be the one
May 22 20:00:33 <leinir> ak: that's because the people behind those "confirmations" are talking out of their arse :)
May 22 20:00:49 <leinir> Because what that image is is a release candidate, and not the final image :)
May 22 20:01:00 <ak> oh
May 22 20:01:14 <ak> i thought it was the full one
May 22 20:01:17 <ak> my bad
May 22 20:01:35 <leinir> That's what you get for believing things written about nokia on anywhere that isn't nokia.com ;)
May 22 20:01:56 <ShadowJK> actually some of the stuff on nokia.com is wrong too
May 22 20:01:57 <ak> when do you expect meego harmattan to be released to n900 with full gui
May 22 20:02:02 <leinir> well, about maemo that isn't written by people with a maemo or nokia email address ;)
May 22 20:02:14 <leinir> ShadowJK: Of course :)
May 22 20:02:22 <ShadowJK> ak: there has been no confirmation that N900 will ever get Harmattan.
May 22 20:02:31 <leinir> ShadowJK: i didn't want to write "believing things written on the internet", but... yeah ;)
May 22 20:02:34 <ak> Nooooooooooooo :'(
May 22 20:03:09 <ak> how come meego released the developer version for n900
May 22 20:03:14 <ShadowJK> "no confirmation"  isn't the same as "confirmed there will be no", of course
May 22 20:03:33 <leinir> because the n900 is the handheld reference device :)
May 22 20:03:40 <leinir> (which it also says on the website somewhere)
May 22 20:03:43 <ShadowJK> Because N900 is a nice open device to test stuff on :)
May 22 20:03:44 <ShadowJK> not just meego
May 22 20:04:03 <ak> oh k
May 22 20:04:22 <ak> it depends on nokia.
May 22 20:04:27 <ak> nokia is crap
May 22 20:04:41 <ak> all other company's have apps for their OSs
May 22 20:04:56 <ak> overall meamo is great
May 22 20:05:06 <leinir> all other companies have crappy OSes that have no features and as such need apps to make them even remotely useful ;)
May 22 20:05:43 <leinir> (also: ak should read and attempt to understand this --> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apostrophe ;) )
May 22 20:08:35 <ak> leinir you're lame and I've just used it :D
May 22 20:09:26 <TSCHAKeee> sigh
May 22 20:09:28 <TSCHAKeee> children.
May 22 20:09:31 <TSCHAKeee> stop.
May 22 20:09:38 <ak> ?
May 22 20:09:42 <TSCHAKeee> yes, you.
May 22 20:09:46 <leinir> *giggles* just pointing out that you are calling someone crap, immediately proceeding to invalidate your point by failing to grasp the very basics of the English language ;)
May 22 20:09:52 <leinir> TSCHAKeee: NOYUUU! ;)
May 22 20:10:30 <TSCHAKeee> and yes, the whole "apps" thing is overblown hype
May 22 20:10:38 <TSCHAKeee> problem is, you can't convince people of that.
May 22 20:10:48 <TSCHAKeee> people are by nature
May 22 20:10:50 <TSCHAKeee> greedy
May 22 20:10:54 <TSCHAKeee> self centered
May 22 20:10:57 <leinir> Indeed :)
May 22 20:11:09 <TSCHAKeee> this is why apple works so well
May 22 20:11:11 <TSCHAKeee> they feed directly off that
May 22 20:11:54 <ak> bye people
May 22 20:11:58 <ak> this is boring
May 22 20:12:08 <GAN900> lol
May 22 20:12:56 <TSCHAKeee> . o O (the ADHD generation.. I weep.)
May 22 20:13:45 <TSCHAKeee> it's rather sad when the people with ASPERGER'S SYNDROME, are becoming the ones with more attention spans than the general population.
May 22 20:13:46 * CosmoHill has ice cream and offers bowls
May 22 20:13:48 <GAN900> TSCHAKeee, people suck. :P
May 22 20:14:40 <TSCHAKeee> yes. we do.
May 22 20:14:41 <TSCHAKeee> :(
May 22 20:15:24 <TSCHAKeee> after almost 25 years of this
May 22 20:15:30 <TSCHAKeee> i'm growing weary
May 22 20:16:03 <TSCHAKeee> tired of the ones who do things, being drowned out by millions of loud whiny voices of the people who do nothing.
May 22 20:16:25 <idra> ADHD != Asperger Syndhrome, kid <csnr>
May 22 20:16:32 <idra> *scnr even
May 22 20:16:36 <TSCHAKeee> ;)
May 22 20:17:00 <CosmoHill> Audio Dynamics and High Definition?
May 22 20:17:04 <TSCHAKeee> thank you for so brilliantly proving my point.
May 22 20:17:52 <TSCHAKeee> CosmoHill, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder
May 22 20:18:11 <CosmoHill> I know, I was joking
May 22 20:18:50 <idra> or "what normal kids do in the rest of the world, where parents understand they are not adults and don't drug them"
May 22 20:19:17 <CosmoHill> they're annoy but you deal with it
May 23 00:16:06 <CosmoHill> cyas
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 23 02:59:57 2010