**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 25 02:59:57 2010
May 25 03:47:44 <TSCHAKeee> *scratch-head* ... so we have the qml stuff... but they're targeting mobile stuff first.... but we're seeing the Netbook UX firrst.... ... wha?
May 25 04:57:27 <reshwindblade> hmm, MeeGo going to be using WebKit right? but Maemo is Gecko?
May 25 05:31:07 <Stskeeps> REMINDER: N900 hardware adaptation team meeting in 30 minutes in #meego-meeting , agenda on http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900#Next_meeting - yes, we had a meeting yesterday and today too ;)
May 25 05:55:19 <Stskeeps> REMINDER: N900 hardware adaptation team meeting in 5 minutes in #meego-meeting , agenda on http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900#Next_meeting
May 25 07:27:58 <Myrtti> murh
May 25 07:29:09 <pupnik> moo
May 25 08:29:16 <Stskeeps> morn slaine
May 25 08:29:43 <slaine> howdy howdy howdy
May 25 08:30:39 <pupnik> so who is good at dsp programming.  we need dosbox soundblaster emulation on dsp
May 25 08:32:38 <timeless_mbp> heh
May 25 08:38:53 <crashanddie> so what exactly is the thing about meeting times in MeeGo?
May 25 08:39:14 <Stskeeps> hmm?
May 25 08:39:32 <crashanddie> I mean, when I was in Australia, all the meetings were happening after 2AM, and now that I'm in Europe, they're happening at 7AM (well, an improvement at least)
May 25 08:40:18 <crashanddie> but whose idea is it to put meetings at 6AM UTC, can someone point out the rationale of it when announcing meetings rather than just randomly changing times?
May 25 08:40:40 <Stskeeps> we've always at the n900 meeting at 6am utc
May 25 08:40:47 <Stskeeps> TSG and others are usually later in the day
May 25 08:41:24 <odin_> right thats it, someone setup a "google calendar" for meego events and stick it up on a wiki
May 25 08:41:48 <crashanddie> lol, odin_ the troll is actually saying "right, that's it"? Nice.
May 25 08:41:57 <odin_> call it "MeeGo Working Groups"
May 25 10:08:34 <freiksenet2> hello! is there any lisp or scheme available on meego? (apart from emacs lisp)
May 25 10:14:39 <bpeel> freiksenet2: I think there's a package for guile
May 25 10:36:15 <freiksenet2> bpeel: ok, thanks
May 25 10:41:02 <pupnik> "There are quite a few things in this area I want to work on such as automating builds of new test versions of the OS users can just extract to an SD to try and provide feedback on...."
May 25 10:41:55 <pupnik> meego should do this
May 25 10:47:26 <lcuk> pupnik, EVERY os should do this
May 25 10:53:08 <pupnik> why cant we manually assist the gps lock?
May 25 10:55:25 <Surfa> I assume you mean gps fix.. how did you plan to do that?
May 25 10:56:17 <Surfa> gps receiver needs to get satellite calendar in every case and it may be a little difficult to help it manually
May 25 10:58:10 <linuxcentos> any news on upoming meego smart phones?
May 25 10:58:16 <linuxcentos> upcoming*
May 25 10:58:31 <pupnik> Surfa: look up agps
May 25 10:59:04 <Surfa> pupnik, yes, and it changes the case how? :)
May 25 10:59:13 <pupnik> other data (celltower) is used to tell gps where you are
May 25 10:59:24 <pupnik> that speeds fix by 1000x sometimes
May 25 10:59:33 <Surfa> partly true
May 25 10:59:37 <pupnik> could also be user-input
May 25 11:00:22 <pupnik> very silly that is not implemented on n900
May 25 11:00:43 <Stskeeps> that's called agps..
May 25 11:00:51 <Surfa> agps not implemented? are you sure
May 25 11:01:05 <Surfa> because it certainly is
May 25 11:01:13 <pupnik> no user assist iks implemented
May 25 11:01:18 <pupnik> -k
May 25 11:01:33 <pupnik> see the linem right above it?
May 25 11:01:41 <pupnik> that is called context
May 25 11:01:50 <Surfa> which device has that sort of implementation?
May 25 11:02:20 <pupnik> none i know
May 25 11:02:22 <pupnik> why not
May 25 11:08:22 <Surfa> there are reasons
May 25 11:08:39 <Surfa> may be found in agps docs you referres
May 25 11:08:45 <Surfa> d
May 25 12:41:33 <CosmoHill> "I'm obsessed with the mess that's America" << good lyric :)
May 25 12:41:45 <reshwindblade> that was rather random...
May 25 12:41:53 <w00t_> welcome to CosmoHill
May 25 12:42:00 <CosmoHill> yes, it does help that I'm watching a music channel
May 25 12:42:29 <reshwindblade> i am reading how windows phone 7 development will fail due to the restricted APIs and no native SDK support
May 25 12:42:37 <lcuk> CosmoHill, its about time you took your medication :p
May 25 12:42:53 <CosmoHill> I haven't taken it since september
May 25 12:42:58 <CosmoHill> 2008
May 25 12:42:59 <CosmoHill> >.>
May 25 12:43:00 <CosmoHill> <.<
May 25 12:43:03 <crashanddie> taken "them"
May 25 12:43:07 <reshwindblade> ah brb ill check logs later dinner time
May 25 12:43:16 <CosmoHill> thanks crashanddie
May 25 13:10:53 <Andy___> Hello, where has the ARM package gone ?
May 25 13:10:58 <Andy___> packages
May 25 13:12:01 <CosmoHill> north wales
May 25 13:12:06 <CosmoHill> it was a good time of year
May 25 13:29:26 <Andy___> seriously, are the rpm packages for ARM permanently deleted ?
May 25 13:30:07 <lcuk> well if someone downloaded them before they can put em up again? or rebuild from source?
May 25 13:31:44 <Andy___> sure its possible, but since they are gone now, is that by accident or intentional ?
May 25 13:37:47 <happyblob> Andy___ newbie here so might have the wrong end of the stick but this is in the irc logs for the meego-arm meeting this morning:
May 25 13:37:47 <happyblob> 08:37 < Sage> During last 24h the arm repositories for "codedrop" have been removed so images for that can not be even made by users anyore.
May 25 13:37:47 <happyblob> 08:38 < Sage> kad: any news when any arm repositories will come back online?
May 25 13:37:47 <happyblob> 08:39 < kad> Sage: no. anas already gone sleeping I assume, so next cance for me to ask is after 9 hours
May 25 13:38:23 <happyblob> not sure if that tells you what you're looking for
May 25 13:38:37 <Andy___> happyblob: ok, thanks
May 25 13:39:02 <Andy___> seems to be more than me that are missing them
May 25 15:58:18 * CosmoHill gives th0br0 a poke
May 25 17:11:58 <Nadley> hi everybody
May 25 17:12:08 <pupnik> huhu
May 25 17:12:40 <CosmoHill> Hi Dr Nadley
May 25 17:13:24 <Nadley> I read a news and I would like to know if is it true. Nokia said that they didn't build a rom of Meego for the N900
May 25 17:13:33 * TSCHAK facepalms
May 25 17:14:07 <zaheerm-lp> Nadley, nokia will not provide support or any official nokia meego upgrade for maemo5
May 25 17:14:19 <Nadley> ok :(
May 25 17:14:26 <zaheerm-lp> Nadley, however meego the project will provide builds for n900
May 25 17:14:28 <TSCHAK> Nadley, Nokia will not support MeeGo officially. This means, you can't call them up at Nokia Care about it. However, this does not mean, that a MeeGo installation is being done for the N900
May 25 17:14:36 <TSCHAK> isn't rather
May 25 17:14:52 <TSCHAK> it means that the MeeGo community will provide the images
May 25 17:14:59 <happyblob> have a look at http://wiki.meego.com/ARM
May 25 17:15:18 * TSCHAK idly wonders how many times we'll have to repeat this.
May 25 17:15:30 <CosmoHill> TSCHAKwe need a bot like sploosh
May 25 17:15:35 <TSCHAK> yeah
May 25 17:15:45 <CosmoHill> Sploosh is a bot I use on my support channels
May 25 17:15:55 <CosmoHill> we say a command and it gives a pre-programed response
May 25 17:16:02 <lcuk> not that it matters
May 25 17:16:06 <arjan> there's also the fun part of getting a device through certification
May 25 17:16:08 <zaheerm-lp> Nadley, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53571
May 25 17:16:10 <lcuk> meego isnt technically a nokia project is it?
May 25 17:16:15 <lcuk> its a linux foundation one
May 25 17:16:24 <TSCHAK> correct.
May 25 17:16:25 <Nadley> ok cool because I will buy a N900 and I'll be very interrested to try meego
May 25 17:16:32 <CosmoHill> shell I fetch the bot?
May 25 17:16:50 <lcuk> i would not expect nokia to support me installing MS Windows on my n900
May 25 17:17:02 <happyblob> Nadley, you should be able to, but it will be at your own risk thats all
May 25 17:17:03 <TSCHAK> Nadley, at this point, don't install it unless you're a developer, and understand that everything is currently a work in progress...
May 25 17:17:06 <lcuk> however brilliantly we could get it running
May 25 17:17:12 <CosmoHill> for some reason I read that as "windows 2000 on my N900"
May 25 17:17:21 <lcuk> wouldnt be a bad thing
May 25 17:17:22 <zaheerm-lp> lcuk, but you would expect them to support you reinstalling windows 7 on your nokia booklet
May 25 17:17:28 <CosmoHill> true
May 25 17:17:42 <CosmoHill> Windows 2000 is very fast compared to XP when using Virtual PC on my mac
May 25 17:17:46 <lcuk> zaheerm-lp, if my booklet came with windows 7, sure
May 25 17:17:50 <lcuk> (i dont know what it has)
May 25 17:17:51 <Nadley> I'm not planning to install it before it works well
May 25 17:17:55 <zaheerm-lp> lcuk, it does
May 25 17:18:03 <zaheerm-lp> Nadley, define: work well
May 25 17:18:05 <TSCHAK> yup guys, get your macros ready  for the flood of "OHEMGEE, IS IT TROO THAT MEEGO NO WORKY ON N900?!"
May 25 17:18:12 <lcuk> ok then zaheerm-lp sure, same as nokia will support you using maemo on n900
May 25 17:18:34 <zaheerm-lp> Nadley, the meego images will not necessarily include the same ui that nokia will put on their meego devices
May 25 17:18:40 <lcuk> will meego work on the booklet tho
May 25 17:18:42 * lcuk ducks
May 25 17:18:50 <TSCHAK> nor will it necessarily work with things like the Ovi Store
May 25 17:18:52 <zaheerm-lp> lcuk, no they have gma500
May 25 17:19:02 <lcuk> zaheerm-lp, THAT i dont agree with :P
May 25 17:19:10 <lcuk> either of your last 2 posts
May 25 17:19:34 <lcuk> tho i suppose if it was a totally open project we could do it
May 25 17:19:45 <lcuk> i suppose a community ux could be made :D
May 25 17:19:48 <TSCHAK> please understand, Meego on the N900 means that those involved will get MeeGo running to the best of their ability on the device, filling in the gaps with closed source code as needed to support hardware... but this is a reference distribution....intended to facilitate development.
May 25 17:20:35 <Nadley> ok I understand when I said "work well" I mean the image are stable and the developpement complete
May 25 17:20:53 <TSCHAK> Nadley, define "complete"
May 25 17:20:55 <TSCHAK> :)
May 25 17:21:16 <zaheerm-lp> lcuk, yes i think nokia should give a licence to their binary stuff that they put on their devices that allow you to use it on other devices sold by nokia
May 25 17:21:44 <zaheerm-lp> lcuk, therefore allowing a community image for n900 that would have similar ui to next meego device
May 25 17:21:48 * lcuk wonders how we can be discussing binary userspace applications anyway
May 25 17:21:55 <lcuk> or rather, why
May 25 17:22:14 <lcuk> if they want uptake and remixes and modificaitons and community - it must be open
May 25 17:22:35 <TSCHAK> zaheerm-lp, basically the "Meego" UX's themselves are reference.
May 25 17:22:42 <zaheerm-lp> so the real question is what part of their UX will be closed..
May 25 17:23:01 <lcuk> well we know everything upto the command line is open so far :D
May 25 17:23:03 <TSCHAK> zaheerm-lp, they will most likely be completely replaced by the target vendor.. see Nokia with Harmattan
May 25 17:23:12 <zaheerm-lp> will it just be apps, themes and colour schemes or will it be as far as a completely diffeent UX
May 25 17:23:31 <lcuk> TSCHAK, if every vendor has to replace every user space application completely from scratch it will fail
May 25 17:23:38 <Nadley> TSCHAK: "complete " like Maemo actually I mean fully working with small issues
May 25 17:24:03 <TSCHAK> lcuk, they don't HAVE to
May 25 17:24:06 <TSCHAK> lcuk, they just WILL
May 25 17:24:12 <TSCHAK> lcuk, differentiation and all.
May 25 17:24:19 <lcuk> if the userspace is incomplete with closed apps then it will fail
May 25 17:24:39 <lcuk> unless differentiation means closed apps and a bitmap logo
May 25 17:24:42 <zaheerm-lp> Nadley, the meego images will not support skype im/audio/video for example, it is a closed component of maemo5
May 25 17:25:09 <zaheerm-lp> lcuk, yes lets hope differentiation is just css, a few closed apps, and images...
May 25 17:25:38 <lcuk> lets hope the differntiation CAN go further if required
May 25 17:25:46 <zaheerm-lp> but i am cynical and i think it'll be more than that
May 25 17:25:53 <lcuk> thats horrid and slimey and not open source friendly if its the only mechanism
May 25 17:25:57 <clipartcat> TSCHAK, nokia sucks again big time. First iPhone has been updated untill now to new version.
May 25 17:26:06 <clipartcat> same as with s60
May 25 17:26:07 <zaheerm-lp> and we could have what happened with symbian where you had s60, uiq etc.
May 25 17:26:13 <clipartcat> new shitty devices, never mind updating them
May 25 17:26:46 * TSCHAK shakes head
May 25 17:26:48 <TSCHAK> more trolls
May 25 17:26:49 <Nadley> zaheerm-lp: I know that about skype and other but can I hope for open protocols like xmmp and other ?
May 25 17:26:51 <clipartcat> whey then don't release version without multitouch for n900
May 25 17:27:11 <TSCHAK> clipartcat, do you honestly want the answer?
May 25 17:27:24 <TSCHAK> it's very simple
May 25 17:27:28 <Lazy^> Is the repo for n900 chroot .img down ?
May 25 17:27:29 <lcuk> re: multitouch  i wonder what happens if i only touch uber multitouch device with 1 finger
May 25 17:27:45 <lcuk> and would i need multitple frozen sausages to operate it in winter
May 25 17:27:48 <zaheerm-lp> Nadley, yah i believe the free software protocols will be there as part of the telepathy packages
May 25 17:27:54 <TSCHAK> nokia can't realistically support a device with multiple operating systems that people can flash between.
May 25 17:27:58 <clipartcat> TSCHAK, Nokia is so busy sucking with it's business model so it doesn't have resources to pull a version for n900
May 25 17:28:12 <TSCHAK> clipartcat, care to keep talking out of your ass?
May 25 17:28:32 <lcuk> clipartcat, qt: code anywhere, develop once, deploy anywhere" isnt that the mantra?
May 25 17:28:39 <clipartcat> like s60 is been for 10years and apple got 10000x more developers in a month :)
May 25 17:28:46 <TSCHAK> oh fucking hell
May 25 17:28:48 <TSCHAK> troll
May 25 17:29:05 <clipartcat> well not really. I think it really sucks :D
May 25 17:29:09 <zaheerm-lp> clipartcat, be happy the same nokia has made the device open enough that you can flash your own OS onto it without any hw mods
May 25 17:29:26 * TSCHAK is NOT going to go into the Apps myth again
May 25 17:29:34 <Nadley> zaheerm-lp: nice I can hope for a fully open-source and compliants with the standars OS for a smartphone
May 25 17:30:00 <zaheerm-lp> Nadley, with a few binary blobs for n900 hw support, yes
May 25 17:30:18 <clipartcat> zaheerm-lp, well sometimes I just think that maybe closed device that is actually working could be better.
May 25 17:31:00 <zaheerm-lp> clipartcat, tell that to the people that bought an htc hero and have been kept waiting many more months than we have for any os update
May 25 17:31:01 <Nadley> ok and who is going to make the rom for the N900 ? Can we have both Maemo and Meego in dual boot ?
May 25 17:31:20 <zaheerm-lp> Nadley, there is talk that dual boot will come, lets wait and see
May 25 17:31:21 <pupnik> is not gameboy.  no roms
May 25 17:31:39 <Stskeeps> Nadley: search meego-dev for 'kexec' and that's current status.
May 25 17:31:45 <happyblob> Nadley: check out http://wiki.meego.com/ARM
May 25 17:31:50 <Nadley> ok thanks
May 25 17:32:04 <Nadley> happyblob: I'm reading it ;)
May 25 17:32:16 <Stskeeps> think it's a good time to make a hot cup of tea.
May 25 17:38:45 <CosmoHill> http://iphonetheif.blogspot.com/2010/01/iphone-theif-bust.html << how to stalk the crap out of someone
May 25 17:40:27 <clipartcat> pr1.2 finally fixes these kerning issues with browser. wonder what kind of quality control there is @ nokia when people are stuck half a year with browser like it was.
May 25 17:42:15 <zaheerm-lp> the browser was much better than most mobile browsers out there even with the stock firmware when you get the device
May 25 17:43:02 <lcuk> clipartcat, quit the trolling, it was a bug thats all
May 25 17:43:18 <CosmoHill> mine just charged you 50p for going online and then not actually letting you go online
May 25 17:48:42 <slaine> I see it's someone left the door open again
May 25 17:49:49 <TSCHAK> we need a doorman that can ask a random question to determine relative intelligence. :P
May 25 17:52:00 * slaine yawns and stretches
May 25 17:52:03 <slaine> man, what a day
May 25 17:52:15 <clipartcat> i always tought it was the intelligent people who aren't never satisfied what they get.
May 25 17:55:08 <Stskeeps> slaine: indeed.. a long one here, really tired
May 25 17:55:10 <Stskeeps> a lot of arguments
May 25 17:55:26 <slaine> I was in a management meeting for most of the day
May 25 17:55:31 <slaine> constructive, but sucked
May 25 17:56:34 <brbrr> hi!
May 25 17:56:45 <Stskeeps> evening
May 25 17:56:59 <brbrr> when meego will be releace?
May 25 17:57:11 <Stskeeps> slaine: i'm just praising myself happy there's people who 'get' what meego actually is
May 25 17:57:16 <Stskeeps> ie, what power it actually is
May 25 17:57:26 <slaine> brbrr: RSN
May 25 17:57:35 <frals> Stskeeps, told you to stay clear of #maemo today ;-)
May 25 17:57:57 <brbrr> slaine: RSN?
May 25 17:58:03 <slaine> Real Soon Now
May 25 17:58:27 <brbrr> its like less than week?
May 25 17:58:37 <slaine> I'd imagine sometime before next Tuesday
May 25 17:58:57 <slaine> We where told by the end of this month, so that doesn't leave much time
May 25 17:59:30 <brbrr> and is there any info about features of it?
May 25 18:00:25 <slaine> everything that we know is on the website
May 25 18:02:33 <CosmoHill> My laptop is 66'C, go youtube!
May 25 18:05:51 <inz> Cosmo, 66 minutes Celsius?
May 25 18:07:36 <CosmoHill> no
May 25 18:09:08 <lcuk> CosmoHill, 66 minutes at speed of light?
May 25 18:18:45 <slaine> alright folks, catch you all tomorrow
May 25 19:06:32 <luist> hey i rebuilt a moblin application in suse, and im getting this error: http://pastie.org/976760  what could it be?
May 25 19:07:42 <arjan> that seems to use clutter
May 25 19:07:45 <arjan> so it's not a meego application
May 25 19:11:42 <luist> arjan, well some ppl here were helping me with some moblin applications few days ago..
May 25 19:39:32 * CosmoHill test one of the forum users (different form)
May 25 19:39:34 <CosmoHill> forum*
May 25 19:39:55 <CosmoHill> if he doesn't respond to my PM / warning but puts his sig back to the way it was I'll ban him
May 25 20:45:14 <thiago_home> how big is the PR1.2 thread now?
May 25 20:45:17 <thiago_home> PR1.2 is out :-)
May 25 20:45:34 <arjan> in UK only
May 25 20:45:50 <Stskeeps> thiago_home: not sure which is bigger, pr1.2 thread or 'no commercial meego for n900'
May 25 20:46:14 * thiago_home needs to upgrade his PR1.2 to the newer PR1.2
May 25 20:46:17 <cure`> finally
May 25 20:46:21 <thiago_home> using pre-release images sucks...
May 25 20:46:27 <cure`> reflash in week or two
May 25 20:47:02 <cure`> +a
May 25 20:54:33 <janneg> arjan: images for manual flashing are available
May 25 21:01:25 <GAN900> Stskeeps, which makes people angrier: "We're dropping this 2-month late half-assed update on you." or "Let's make up reasons we're dropping our current customers like a rock."? :P
May 25 21:02:27 <TSCHAKeee> they simply did not emphasise correctly that there is a degree of compatibility between the platforms
May 25 21:02:43 <GAN900> Doesn't help the core stuff
May 25 21:02:45 <TSCHAKeee> thus this fucked up feeling of abandonment
May 25 21:03:09 <arjan> janneg: I can wait a day :)
May 25 21:03:39 <GAN900> arjan, it's full of regressions anyway.
May 25 21:04:00 <TSCHAKeee> and yup, people are noticeably disappointed
May 25 21:04:20 * GAN900 wonders if Nokians would test better if they had to update in big leaps like the rest of us do.
May 25 21:04:39 <TSCHAKeee> heheheh
May 25 21:04:42 <TSCHAKeee> yeah...
May 25 21:04:50 <TSCHAKeee> this big reveal shit is for the fucking birds
May 25 21:05:07 <GAN900> Or dinosaurs
May 25 21:05:10 <TSCHAKeee> yeah
May 25 21:05:16 <TSCHAKeee> the only thing that pisses me off really...
May 25 21:05:25 <TSCHAKeee> is that... if i notice a problem in one of the core apps
May 25 21:05:27 <TSCHAKeee> chances are
May 25 21:05:29 <TSCHAKeee> i can't fix it.
May 25 21:05:33 <GAN900> Yeah
May 25 21:05:49 <RST38h> GAN: you cannot trust developers with testing anyway
May 25 21:05:59 <GAN900> And they do everything in their power to keep you from contributing to the open stuff.
May 25 21:06:00 <TSCHAKeee> i am hoping this will get a little better with meego
May 25 21:06:01 <TSCHAKeee> yes
May 25 21:06:01 <TSCHAKeee> hope
May 25 21:06:05 <RST38h> GAN: Testing is done by special testers who work on schedule
May 25 21:06:09 <RST38h> javispedro heya
May 25 21:06:20 <javispedro> hello
May 25 21:06:20 <TSCHAKeee> that dirty word
May 25 21:07:23 <GAN900> "javispedro"?
May 25 21:07:50 <javispedro> ""?
May 25 21:08:50 <GAN900> "that dirty word"
May 25 21:08:57 <heffer> okay so i pretty much hear from your opinions that i should wait with the update? :D
May 25 21:10:36 <GAN900> heffer, wont make any difference
May 25 21:10:52 <GAN900> Since the next one will probably take another 4 months.
May 25 21:11:03 * javispedro confuses #meego with #maemo for a moment
May 25 21:12:06 <GAN900> We're taking over!
May 25 21:12:59 <heffer> ah no meego for n900 by nokia. isee
May 25 21:14:45 <javispedro> "if MeeGo doesn't go to the N900, #maemo goes to #meego".
May 25 21:14:56 <javispedro> evil.
May 25 21:22:25 * arjan can understand not wanting to go through certification again for an existing product... but...
May 25 21:22:54 <thiago_home> arjan: do you know if we've made the decision already on whether to include Vorbis support in the MeeGo images?
May 25 21:23:31 <GAN900> Nokia has never managed to figure out that these devices aren't embedded.
May 25 21:25:59 <GAN900> Unfortunately Nokia as a company hates its little black sheep platform.
May 25 21:26:00 <arjan> thiago: eh why wouldn't vorbis be there?
May 25 21:26:23 <GAN900> arjan, for Maemo 5 legal/patent concerns were cited.
May 25 21:26:25 <thiago_home> Nokia has its reasons for not including it in Maemo
May 25 21:26:38 <thiago_home> so I'm wondering if this subject has been approached
May 25 21:26:47 <arjan> what someone wants to ship in a product, is the choice of that company that makes that product
May 25 21:27:00 <arjan> the community non-product images currently have it and I don't see why not.
May 25 21:27:23 <thiago_home> ok, that seems fair to me :-)
May 25 21:29:14 <GAN900> The community produces Maemo images?
May 25 21:29:54 <javispedro> GAN900: "patent concerns" of course, as Nokia has AAC patents...
May 25 21:39:19 <thiago_home> a reason why we're better than Android: https://review.source.android.com/#patch,sidebyside,14699,1,libc/memset.c
May 25 21:39:55 <user_> 'Better than Android'? That's a joke right?
May 25 21:40:05 <thiago_home> read the link
May 25 21:40:25 <thiago_home> the joke is on Android
May 25 21:40:41 <user_> even Apple is more loyal to their customers than Nokia these days
May 25 21:40:45 <lbt> nah, it's a way to enforce all-black themes in the gui
May 25 21:41:22 <RST38h> Well, they have no idea about embedded systems or optimization
May 25 21:41:53 <RST38h> probably think none of it i required, especially given that they want people to program in java
May 25 21:42:03 <user_> they seem to know about continuity and carrying one OS across multiple devices
May 25 21:42:17 <thiago_home> user_: yes, all three of them
May 25 21:42:20 <RST38h> user: that does not require experience, just plain common sense
May 25 21:42:29 <thiago_home> Nokia releases more devices than that per year
May 25 21:42:48 <thiago_home> however, trust me we're trying to change Nokia ways
May 25 21:43:12 <RST38h> thiago: Many people tried by failed
May 25 21:43:27 <user_> oh sorry i was in particular taking about the n810-n900-nxxx maemo/meego fiasco
May 25 21:43:50 <lbt> what has the flasher got to do with it?
May 25 21:44:08 <RST38h> thiago: But of course the best first step would be to hunt down and murder all S60/Symbian people inside Maemo Devices, former or not
May 25 21:44:30 <user_> i say firing ari and quim gil would go a long way to start
May 25 21:44:43 <RST38h> user: not necessarily
May 25 21:45:01 <thiago_home> RST38h: did those many people have a good position inside the nokia strategy?
May 25 21:45:04 <user_> they have zero credibility
May 25 21:45:20 <thiago_home> user_: quim has nothing to do with this
May 25 21:45:20 <RST38h> thiago: NO idea. I can only see the results of their activities
May 25 21:45:35 <thiago_home> user_: he's marketing and community.
May 25 21:45:47 <RST38h> thiago: Notice the direction of forking Qt into DUI
May 25 21:46:02 <thiago_home> that's not forking
May 25 21:46:10 <thiago_home> it's a library on top of Qt, the same way that kdelibs is
May 25 21:46:27 <RST38h> thiago: Further notice S60-like UI elements shoddily implemented in forked GTK+ (Maemo5)
May 25 21:46:50 <RST38h> Making maemo5 gtk+ incompatible with mainline
May 25 21:47:21 <RST38h> Further notice UI in the Media Player, Ovi Maps, etc
May 25 21:47:30 <thiago_home> they can't fork Qt this time because Qt Development is the only one allowed to make Qt releases to Nokia
May 25 21:47:41 <thiago_home> what's wrong with the UI?
May 25 21:48:07 <RST38h> thiago: Creating an alternative framework inside the Qt pretty much achieves the same
May 25 21:48:19 <GeneralAntilles> user_, firing Quim is the LAST thing you want to do.
May 25 21:48:25 <GeneralAntilles> user_, he's our man-on-the-inside. :)
May 25 21:48:37 <RST38h> thiago: ANd you have now got TWO alternative UI frameworks, one for Maemo and another one for Symbian^n =)
May 25 21:48:57 <GeneralAntilles> user_, if anybody's there championing the thing's you're worried about, it's him.
May 25 21:49:00 <GeneralAntilles> user_, but he's not business-end.
May 25 21:49:04 <RST38h> thiago: What is wrong with the Media Player UI? :)
May 25 21:49:09 <GeneralAntilles> Which is where these dumbass decisions mostly come frome.
May 25 21:49:18 <thiago_home> RST38h: they're both Qt-based. And the Orbit framework runs on Maemo.
May 25 21:49:19 <RST38h> thiago: Ok, for starters, try removing a song from the playlist.
May 25 21:49:32 <thiago_home> it's not a fork, it's just one more UI library.
May 25 21:49:32 <RST38h> thiago: That is nice, technically.
May 25 21:49:36 <thiago_home> again, like KDE Libs.
May 25 21:49:45 <thiago_home> that has existed for 15 years and people don't complain.
May 25 21:50:33 <RST38h> thiago: But if I am a developer, I have a choice of plain Qt (will work on non-Meego, but will look ugly on Meego), DUI (will look nice on Meego, won't work on anything else) and Orbit (will work on both Symbian and Meego, won't work on anything else)
May 25 21:50:54 <RST38h> thiago: So much for portability that Qt was supposed to offer...
May 25 21:50:58 <thiago_home> plain Qt will look fairly ok on MeeGo and Symbian
May 25 21:51:13 <RST38h> Also, notice the MVC model you have got now
May 25 21:51:21 <thiago_home> won't be perfect because it's not QGraphicsView
May 25 21:51:34 <javispedro> RST38h: actually DUI/"MeegoTouch" works on non-Meego....
May 25 21:51:50 <javispedro> (but I agree with the general argument)
May 25 21:51:50 <RST38h> THAT has definitely come from Symbian, where MVC is universally dreaded
May 25 21:52:11 <thiago_home> javispedro: I've never managed to get it to compile properly on my 32-bit Linux, but it the Symbian lib works fine on Maemo.
May 25 21:52:15 <RST38h> javis: yes, but who will use DUI on non-Meego?
May 25 21:52:43 <javispedro> thiago: costed me a ton but got it running on 64-bit squeeze...
May 25 21:53:00 <thiago_home> javispedro: what's a 64-bit squeeze?
May 25 21:53:05 <javispedro> Debian Squeeze.
May 25 21:53:08 <javispedro> amd64.
May 25 21:53:18 <RST38h> All right. Sleep. PR1.2 tomorrow.
May 25 21:53:31 <javispedro> RST38h: heh, you might want to hear pulseaudio seems a bit faster.
May 25 21:54:21 <RST38h> javis: how wonderful...does it still hang all the third party apps?
May 25 21:54:32 <javispedro> not tested yet
May 25 21:54:40 <RST38h> do try it
May 25 21:54:54 <javispedro> iirc the bug report said it still hanged all third party apps,
May 25 21:54:54 <RST38h> that is the most awful bug
May 25 21:55:07 <javispedro> but the media player wouldn't.
May 25 21:55:10 <RST38h> ah holy fuck...
May 25 21:55:17 <javispedro> (only the phone app would...)
May 25 21:55:33 <RST38h> why don't these guys just FIX the damn thing?
May 25 21:55:51 <javispedro> they ran out of non insane pulseaudio developers?
May 25 21:55:55 <RST38h> it is not hard, only takes checking a quit_now variable while hanging
May 25 21:56:15 <thiago_home> is the variable volatile?
May 25 21:56:43 <RST38h> thiago: that is not the issue
May 25 21:56:51 <RST38h> thiago: the issue is as follows
May 25 21:57:00 <thiago_home> that was a joke, sorry for not being explicit
May 25 21:57:13 <thiago_home> this all started because I pointed out that Android fixed a bug in memset...
May 25 21:57:28 <RST38h> YOur app opens pulse audio. Pulseaudio starts a thread. That thread tries opening audio device and hangs because audio is used by let us say media player.
May 25 21:58:00 <RST38h> You obviously do not hear any audio, but the fun stuff happens when your app tries quitting
May 25 21:58:32 <RST38h> You are trying to close pulseaudio, it sets quit_now=1 and waits for its private thread to stop
May 25 21:58:43 <RST38h> thiago: GUess what happens next?
May 25 21:59:29 <RST38h> <SLEEP>
May 25 22:00:04 <thiago_home> considering it's pulseaudio, I would guess something completely non-sequitur
May 25 22:00:06 <thiago_home> :-P
May 25 22:01:08 <javispedro> the device explodes  and slays your children?
May 25 22:01:26 <arjan> are smoke and flames involved?
May 25 22:01:30 <arjan> or shocking the device owner?
May 25 22:02:04 <arjan> thiago: you may laugh on that android bugfix
May 25 22:02:08 <arjan> but mesa until last week or so had
May 25 22:02:18 <arjan> #define memset(a, b, c)  bzero(a,c)
May 25 22:02:34 <javispedro> hey, that's a good optimization after all.
May 25 22:02:40 * TSCHAKeee cocks his head sideways a little
May 25 22:02:51 * TSCHAKeee chuckles
May 25 22:03:29 <thiago_home> arjan: it's different if mesa only used zeroing, than enforcing zeroing in all apps :-)
May 25 22:03:58 <arjan> yeah doing it in your C library takes it to the next level
May 25 22:04:17 <TSCHAKeee> hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
May 25 22:04:28 <TSCHAKeee> of hell
May 25 23:42:40 <CosmoHill> night night
May 26 02:32:47 <m1keg> hi, I need some help, http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/images/ doesn't exist, where can I download a bootable image for netbook?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 26 02:59:57 2010