**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 29 02:59:57 2010 May 29 03:04:24 hello. i just installed meego, was trying to reconfigure the boot loader since it got screwed up during the meego install May 29 03:04:37 now i cant get into a terminal. the terminal window just never opens May 29 03:04:40 wat do May 29 03:13:44 Hello, I am trying to boot the meego 1.0 netbook with chromium, and every time I write the image to the USB with image writer it fails to boot giving the first error listed at http://meego.com/devices/netbook/installing-meego-your-netbook, and when I try with 7zip it says there is an error in the file at meego-netbook-chromium-ia32-1.0-20100524.1.img\LiveOS\squashfs.img, which seems concurrent with the error - any suggestions? May 29 06:52:07 Can I run any Linux application on Meego? May 29 06:53:57 Also, how does it run on an Acer Aspire One Netbook? May 29 06:56:28 those run? May 29 06:56:50 * pupnik points to dead unit May 29 06:57:22 Are Acer Aspire Ones bad? I just bought it because it was the cheapest Netbook for sale.. :( May 29 06:57:48 pupnik: Do you know if any Linux app will work on Meego? May 29 06:58:17 Could I compile something like say... KTouch from the KDE Edu software suite and run it on Meego? May 29 06:58:36 Also, can you watch movies on it? May 29 06:58:42 oh boy, kde? May 29 06:58:54 Just a KDE typing program. May 29 06:59:02 Not the whole KDE software/UI May 29 06:59:16 how does it run without kde libraries May 29 06:59:49 i thought the point of meego was to not be bloatware May 29 06:59:58 if you want that, try ubuntu May 29 07:00:11 I don't know... I don't actually even use Linux. My only computer is an Aspire One with Windows XP... May 29 07:00:13 http://www.notmart.org/index.php/Software/KDE_on_MeeGo May 29 07:00:54 CLabel: do you think that is useful or harmful? May 29 07:01:28 both May 29 07:01:33 hacking May 29 07:01:44 good answer May 29 07:05:27 sure people will compile whatever they can "for meego" as time goes by. but they should be schooled. May 29 07:05:43 pupnik: apsire apparently has a bios recovery option May 29 07:07:13 ty tmzt - ill check it out May 29 07:07:49 I ran into it looking for options in flashing coreboot without hardware recovery May 29 07:08:29 iirc i only see a blackscreen on poweron May 29 07:08:48 any leds? May 29 07:12:03 hi May 29 07:12:40 iirc none, tmzt - not sure. May 29 07:13:13 I have created dual boot on a nokia n900, I installed meego a ext3 formatted sd and not start, and do not know where to look May 29 07:13:36 btw does meego run in macbook? :) May 29 07:13:56 excuse my language, I'm using an online translator May 29 07:15:11 to do this I followed the steps in this wiki: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 May 29 07:15:52 ioeee, tell us more about it not starting. What does it do? May 29 07:16:23 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/Dual_Boot May 29 07:16:49 ioeee: have you check that one ^ May 29 07:17:11 ioeee: did you flash or load the kernel? May 29 07:18:11 get a white screen that says: Booting from meego (mmcblk1p1, ext3) and within seconds the device is turned off May 29 07:18:50 "Under construction. This feature is not working in MeeGo 1.0 due to kexec problems" May 29 07:19:02 CLabel: read the first part May 29 07:19:15 ioeee: ok, you aren't supposed to use the second instructions May 29 07:19:21 I created the dual boot, I start by starting up the device and pressing May 29 07:19:25 ioeee: flasher -l -k vmlinuz-file -b May 29 07:20:17 with the flasher not start me May 29 07:20:57 ext3 format is correct for the image of meego? May 29 07:21:55 I ask because it does not recognize the sd maemo May 29 07:25:23 Sending kernel image (1802 kB)... May 29 07:25:23 100% (1802 of 1802 kB, avg. 21210 kB/s) May 29 07:25:29 reboot May 29 07:26:54 I started this just a console May 29 07:27:19 ioeee, right, thats all the 1.0 release is for n900 May 29 07:27:27 ioeee, there is no Handset UX right now May 29 07:28:00 congrats ioeee May 29 07:28:54 meego mean that 1.0 does not have the x? May 29 07:29:07 it has X, just no user interface May 29 07:29:40 graphical May 29 07:30:10 ok, then that is what you need to start right? May 29 07:30:18 only console May 29 07:30:33 ioeee, yes at the moment May 29 07:30:56 i actually wonder how we'll deal with meego compliance on something like meego n8x0 May 29 07:31:50 well, at least since I have dual boot to see if I am able to boot debian or other May 29 07:31:51 Stskeeps, in what way? May 29 07:32:29 Stskeeps, using the Handset UX is not needed for compliance if thats what you mean May 29 07:32:46 Termana: well, there's a (i would say good) thing in the meego images, artwork and logos with 'meego' are actually only yours to use if you ship a device with software that's meego compliant May 29 07:32:56 ie, you can only use the trademark if so May 29 07:33:24 Stskeeps, right, but in what do you think is stopping n8x0 from being MeeGo compliant May 29 07:33:34 well, one is no gles2 May 29 07:33:41 but let's see how things go May 29 07:34:02 If all goes to hell, we can just distribute it on Tor May 29 07:34:06 oops did I say that out loud May 29 07:34:08 :P May 29 07:34:10 ;) May 29 07:49:44 Stskeeps: is there a generic set of images/trademarks (whitebox)? May 29 07:50:04 not sure, but let's wait for the actual trademark usage stuff coming out May 29 09:04:53 so the only way to use qemu to run the meego image is this? http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_Qemu May 29 09:06:22 that'll show you an x terminal at least May 29 09:10:55 I read in the channel's logs the usgin qemu-system-arm is wrong, but I don'þ quite understand why May 29 09:11:33 http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/%23meego.2010-04-19.log.html#t2010-04-19T11:00:25 <-- starts here May 29 09:11:47 maybe with beagle image? May 29 09:12:32 tmzt: beagle? May 29 09:13:42 I'm sorry, I just downloaded the image, I don't know much about meego stuff May 29 09:14:17 you're trying to do what, just to know your goal? May 29 09:16:22 Stskeeps: I don't understand the question. I just want to try meego in my x86 laptop, see what it looks like, etc May 29 09:16:59 ok, the problem is that qemu doesn't yet support proper 3d acceleration May 29 09:17:15 aha, and can it be turned off? May 29 09:17:21 I mean, the use of 3d May 29 09:17:38 right May 29 09:17:42 UX is heavily dependant on it May 29 09:18:20 so that's a no... May 29 09:18:44 you're better off trying to boot it, i guess May 29 09:19:38 Stskeeps: have you seen the work redhat is doing with qemu and spice? May 29 09:19:50 with GLES support it could work for system emulation May 29 09:19:55 so, back to the original problem, should I use qemu-system-arm or the 'meego on qemu' link above? May 29 09:20:16 tmzt: there'll be handset ux qemu i think. May 29 09:20:31 StyXman: meego on ux, but it emulates a nokia n900, which only shows an x terminal atm May 29 09:20:50 right, no sgx emulation/passthrough May 29 09:21:20 tmzt: except that does exist actually May 29 09:21:25 well, a different GLES library May 29 09:21:32 go look at maemo-qemu / meego qemu work May 29 09:21:34 gles-libs May 29 09:21:49 Stskeeps: and ux is...? May 29 09:21:53 http://www.linux-kvm.com/content/getting-started-spice-fedora-12 May 29 09:22:03 it's the qxl driver May 29 09:22:09 no GLES support yet that I know of May 29 09:22:20 StyXman: user experience May 29 09:22:30 StyXman: like netbook interface + apps, handset interface + apps, etc.. May 29 09:24:09 so that's useless May 29 09:24:16 hmm? May 29 09:24:26 you said it only gives an xterm May 29 09:24:41 err, x terminal May 29 09:24:43 yes, cos handset ux is not published yet :) May 29 09:25:04 ahhh, the user interface, so that's the full 'desktop' May 29 09:25:14 sorry, I wasn¶t following you May 29 09:25:28 I don't care much about the phone itself :) May 29 09:25:40 besides how it manages contacts and such May 29 09:26:03 :nod May 29 09:26:15 i'd wait a little while :) May 29 09:26:44 so, to resume, the best way to try meego's user interface is to use http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_Qemu and not to try to boot the live image from the released iso and qemu-system-arm? May 29 09:27:44 no, meego on qemu will just give you an x terminal May 29 09:27:55 there's no support for virtual machines of meego netbook ux at the moment May 29 09:28:22 best way to test it is by either the sdk simulator or by booting it. May 29 09:28:45 Stskeeps: I don't want to run qemu *in* meego, but meego *in* qemu May 29 09:29:00 yes, i know May 29 09:29:01 I cannot boot it because I don't have any arm machine May 29 09:29:11 meego exists for x86 too. May 29 09:29:22 if you want to see a x terminal, ie, the n900 port, you can do this with qemu. May 29 09:29:22 ... but the image is for arm May 29 09:29:48 go www.meego.com and check. there are two images for atom based processors. May 29 09:29:55 go to meego.com and go from there :P qemu stuff is for emulating a n900 May 29 09:30:23 and with qemu stuff you mean that link in the wiki May 29 09:30:32 you don't want to try anything on the n900 as there is nothing to try. May 29 09:30:56 terminal gets quite boring quite fast. May 29 09:31:43 nice, now I understand May 29 09:32:04 sorry, I think is too early in the morning May 29 09:35:13 beh, I *had* downloaded the atom image :| May 29 09:35:25 not the arm as I thought May 29 09:55:51 ok, the image crashed with ata exceptions under qemu and it froze under virtualbox. maybe I have to set some settings? May 29 09:56:31 dunno, but qemu/virtualbox isn't a supported target :P May 29 09:58:34 ill try my luck with compiling mplayer May 29 10:26:36 hi May 29 10:33:19 hello all, sorry to be a pain but I have one quick question someone here may be able to answer it for me? the meego forum isn't letting me register May 29 10:34:21 I have a HP 2133 netbook...does anyone happen to know if that will be supported or not? it seems there's a fairly large range of HP netbooks supported but I don't know if it extends that far yet May 29 10:40:07 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=meego_10_perf&num=5 May 29 10:40:37 seems that meego opengl performance is bad May 29 10:40:49 :( May 29 10:41:07 what are you expecting to run, crysis? May 29 10:41:07 :P May 29 10:41:09 it's a netbook May 29 10:41:09 :P May 29 10:41:26 games would be nice May 29 10:43:53 no one has any guesses on if a HP mininote 2133 would run it? :) I'm hanging out for meego but don't want to crash this horrible little netbook May 29 10:44:08 coincidentally, if anyone ever offers you one, tell them to pay you to take it May 29 10:44:09 urgh May 29 10:45:22 veradux: http://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.0/meego-v1.0-netbooks May 29 10:45:36 supported hw: ... HP mini 210-1044 May 29 10:45:46 *tested hw May 29 10:46:20 is the hw much different? May 29 10:47:26 I'm not really sure how similar it would be to one of those, I don't actually have any proper docs for this one because it's a second hand one that was given to me May 29 10:48:58 it's a 21XX so I'm assuming it would follow on from a 210, but I don't want to make an ass of myself with a bricked laptop and poor assumption May 29 10:49:35 does meego dual boot with windows, or does it replace? May 29 10:49:52 if it dual boots like jolicloud, I guess there'd be no harm in trying May 29 10:51:32 trying to compile mplayer but I get stuck on compile error in libavcodec. May 29 11:20:26 hi! May 29 11:20:44 i couldt be able to boot meego by usb drive May 29 11:21:08 i used unetbootin-windows-442.exe May 29 11:21:17 its seems incompatible May 29 11:28:40 celestica, you need to use ImageWriter May 29 11:28:55 it is an image, not a LiveCD iso May 29 11:29:21 ah! so i cant run it as live linux? May 29 11:29:55 you can, you just need to write the image to a USB drive using ImageWriter first May 29 11:30:05 its just a differant way of doing it May 29 11:32:19 win32 disk imager? if that > now i'm doing May 29 11:34:25 thanks. now i'll try May 29 11:37:45 hi May 29 11:39:33 yesterday I tried meego with a friend in a Toshiba netbook. It works really well. We tried it in boot mode, and we wanted to do some tests... but we didn't know the root password... Someone knows what's the pass? May 29 11:40:01 meego, maybe May 29 11:40:58 yes.... it was the first pass that we tried... but it didn't work... :S May 29 11:46:04 does just sudo work? May 29 11:53:15 "Nothing we can do about this, n900 doesn't have any vsync exposed to userspace, not even to X server. May 29 11:53:17 password is 'meego' for users 'meego' and 'root' May 29 11:53:18 [ Show » ] May 29 11:53:20 Tom Cooksey added a comment - 05/Mar/10 04:42 PM Nothing we can do about this, n900 doesn't have any vsync exposed to userspace, not even to X server. May 29 11:53:34 love these crappy websites with hidden text May 29 12:22:56 why can i not change resolution when i plug my netbook into a external moniter? May 29 12:23:09 it automaitcally changes to 1280x900 but its too big May 29 12:24:04 !g "X11 dual-head" May 29 12:25:26 pupnik, it goes onto the screen, just at the wrong reolution May 29 12:25:52 every computer i plugin to this TV thinks its 1280x900 when its not May 29 12:26:45 xset command can change res iirc May 29 12:47:04 hi May 29 12:47:13 how can i change keyboard layout on meego May 29 12:48:42 got mplayer compiled. smplayer would be next :) May 29 12:49:25 i couldnt even mount my harddisk to play mp3 May 29 12:50:35 everything works just fine with eeepc 901. May 29 12:50:52 even mounting to my win7 network share. May 29 12:51:25 spide, a guide on a forum post about the compilation would be nice :) May 29 12:52:31 gaveen: following the instructions provided by the software itself should suffice. May 29 12:55:10 i might write a post after i see that smplayer works. May 29 12:56:25 and gadgets doesnt work properly May 29 12:57:08 spide: cat /proc/cpuinfo ? May 29 12:58:34 do you mean socket80? :) May 29 13:39:39 i'm starting to realize why debian has debian-legal May 29 13:39:49 to move all the legal discussions out of the way so developers can concentrate.. May 29 13:39:49 :P May 29 13:42:40 damn. didn't have libsmbclient installed when i compiled mplayer. May 29 13:43:11 have to do it again in order to able to play videos from network drive :) May 29 13:44:02 maybe i should reconsider my early adopter role and move back to ubuntu :P May 29 13:45:34 id like a small smb client option May 29 13:49:13 spide: did you build for x86? May 29 13:49:51 it would be nice if builder made arm builds also May 29 14:00:50 x86 of course. May 29 14:01:48 not going to mess with my n900. not sure if i could even if i wanted to. Managed to break the usb-port when it was attached to charger :) May 29 14:02:09 this one is just wobbly May 29 14:02:37 how bout magnet-usb May 29 14:02:37 spide, warranty? May 29 14:04:56 well it's a company phone. May 29 14:16:00 meego would be really cool if it would install May 29 14:24:36 no it is complaining about smb.conf May 29 14:28:09 ok. video works but i have to recompile mplayer again and enable alsa i think. May 29 14:56:40 Anyone got facebook chat / ICQ working in meego 1.0 with empathy ? May 29 16:19:32 what bootloader does meego use? May 29 16:20:06 grub? May 29 16:20:16 legacy or 2.0? May 29 16:20:33 uhm May 29 16:20:49 MeeGo uses syslinux, not grub May 29 16:21:20 ahhh....how can i make it display the menu on boot? May 29 16:22:20 if i hit escape at the right point i can click "Other" and go into Windows May 29 16:23:50 ah May 29 16:23:55 is this syslinux? May 29 16:24:09 it really looks grub May 29 16:24:15 usb live image... May 29 16:25:04 hello May 29 16:25:59 do you know if there is a step after install bootloader ? May 29 16:26:29 because a this moment bootloader install is blocked May 29 16:29:41 aw there is no acess to a tty May 29 16:31:25 so meego 1.0 is released but it is only for netbook computers? am I right? May 29 16:31:58 smhar: i had understand that this is also for mobiles May 29 16:32:23 there are only an official image for netbooks May 29 16:32:41 i can't see more images... May 29 16:32:52 LaSaRuX, but I can use this image in a vm in my computer for testing? May 29 16:33:35 why bootloader install do not works >< May 29 16:33:48 there are a thread in forums talking about these May 29 16:34:03 LaSaRuX: for me ? May 29 16:34:21 LaSaRuX, care to provide a link May 29 16:34:36 http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=202&highlight=qemu May 29 16:34:40 :-) May 29 16:34:46 i May 29 16:35:06 about virtual machines... May 29 16:35:15 LaSaRuX, thanks May 29 16:35:25 hylix: where are you trying to install meego? May 29 16:35:37 is there a road map for when a mobile version should be expected? May 29 16:35:39 smhar: you're welcome May 29 16:37:13 smhar: 1.1 maybe... octuber May 29 16:37:19 october May 29 16:37:31 good May 29 16:38:19 LaSaRuX: eeepc901 from usbstick May 29 16:38:48 so we can expect mobiles to show in the market by January. I just hope that Nokia will not get rid of the keyboard and go iphone crazy May 29 16:39:28 hylix: ah... http://wiki.meego.com/Devices#Netbooks May 29 16:39:46 hylix: your model is listed May 29 16:40:06 yes May 29 16:40:12 i know May 29 16:40:27 but it dont works for bootloader install May 29 16:40:44 LaSaRuX, may be not :-( it seems that the first wave of Nokia mobiles will be some hi bird , not a pure meego: http://meego.com/2010/02/maemo-6-harmattn-continues-development-will-be-meego-compatible/ May 29 16:41:13 LaSaRuX: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-April/001882.html i found that May 29 16:41:17 hylix: what is the error message? May 29 16:41:25 LaSaRuX: no error message May 29 16:41:29 its just blocked May 29 16:41:48 i know how to install grub but i have no tty :( May 29 16:41:49 smhar: nokia it's a mistery itself ... May 29 16:42:43 hylix: maybe you can boot without X if you add "single" editing grub first line and booting May 29 16:42:56 or init=/bin/bash May 29 16:43:12 but I don't know how to install meego from a shell May 29 16:43:16 with reboot its ok but during install May 29 16:43:27 hylix , i have a same problem on my netbook, no bootloader install ... : missing operating system May 29 16:43:27 it should have a free tty May 29 16:43:50 hylix: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=272 May 29 16:43:55 il try to fix it by making a chroot May 29 16:44:40 hylix: in this thread there isn't a solution May 29 16:44:41 sorry May 29 16:44:45 file a bug May 29 16:44:46 ? May 29 16:44:50 strange May 29 16:45:10 its ok if thisis just a grub problem May 29 16:45:55 I have got a eeepc 1001HA May 29 16:46:13 it's working really smooth and fast on it May 29 16:46:37 it seems tht install is ok May 29 16:48:14 switch to console 3 (CTRL-ALT F3) May 29 16:48:32 do you see something? May 29 16:48:50 i took this from the thread May 29 16:49:43 i reboot May 29 16:49:46 ed* May 29 16:50:18 argh croot not works May 29 16:50:21 chroot* May 29 16:52:51 chroot ? May 29 16:53:13 you dont know chroot ? May 29 16:53:25 yeah May 29 16:53:37 but why do you are using chroot? May 29 16:53:46 to install the grub May 29 16:54:18 but you have already installed linux in that netbook? May 29 16:54:37 meego is installed but grub isnt installed May 29 16:54:38 grub-install --root-directory=/mnt/root ? May 29 16:55:14 odin_: grub is not installed on the meego img >< May 29 16:55:23 but on the root May 29 16:55:26 mmh ill try May 29 16:56:55 Oo May 29 16:57:21 grub binary is not installed May 29 16:58:42 syslinux then... May 29 16:58:55 as long as you know what you are doing! you dont want to trash your PC and chroot will still let you do that via /dev/foo May 29 16:59:07 how said DawnFoste May 29 16:59:35 odin_: i cant chroot May 29 16:59:51 this is full of bug >< May 29 17:00:29 meego-help doesnt works too, yum too >< May 29 17:02:12 what is a password root by defaut ? i try to mount /dev/sda2 May 29 17:02:17 meego May 29 17:03:17 hylix srsly? May 29 17:03:46 ZogG: yes May 29 17:04:00 where can i find img checksum May 29 17:04:15 maybe its cause of the integrity May 29 17:05:18 thx hylix May 29 17:20:29 is there a roadmap for meego 1.1 somewhere? May 29 17:27:14 smhar: someone from nokia or intel in this room to answer to smhar? May 29 17:27:16 :-) May 29 17:27:45 I read 1.1 for october in a blog May 29 17:28:04 >< i shot my eeepc :( May 29 17:29:01 Hi, has anyone tried installing MeeGo on Nokia Booklet? May 29 17:30:10 As it's hardware isn't in the list of supported devices May 29 17:31:02 its graphics card is unsuitable at this time May 29 17:31:41 Ok, thanks. Now I know I won't waste my time trying it until it's officially supported May 29 17:31:55 I'm eager to try it May 29 17:33:12 GMA500 is out of meego 1.0 scope May 29 17:33:15 :-( May 29 17:33:55 and i saw in code that 1024x600 in panels is hardcoded May 29 17:34:09 GMA500 devices has got 1366x768 May 29 17:34:11 no? May 29 17:34:54 LaSaRuX: it shold be 1337x768 May 29 17:34:59 should* May 29 17:35:42 in my test in the laptop i have got a zone with 600 pixels height May 29 17:35:57 not my full screen height May 29 17:35:59 LaSaRuX, i saw something on ML about meego on lower spec grpahics cards May 29 17:36:03 someone has it on 800*480 May 29 17:36:11 ah May 29 17:36:22 there are some calcs in the code May 29 17:36:27 [MeeGo-dev] MeeGo *does* work with old CPUs May 29 17:36:33 but i don't know really the meaning yet May 29 17:36:34 "P.S. Now that the toolbar is customisable even a crumby 800x480 display May 29 17:36:34 works well :-)" May 29 17:36:40 okis May 29 17:36:48 will meego be installable on N800 and N810 Nokia tablets? May 29 17:37:14 smhar: I presume *no* officially May 29 17:37:58 maybe in a community project? May 29 17:38:01 if it will, it would add a new life to the old tablets for sure :-) May 29 17:38:08 sure May 29 17:39:55 one of Stskeeps' projects is porting MeeGo to the N800, drawing upon previous work from Mer. May 29 17:40:17 n810, but both should work in time May 29 17:42:11 yeah May 29 17:43:14 ah... interesting May 29 17:45:47 Stskeeps: what is the current idea for UX in N? May 29 17:45:57 from maemo 5/6 ? May 29 17:50:57 ps uax May 29 17:51:41 opps... trying to work out why ForcaWeather won't finish installing on N900 (Maemo5 PR1.2) May 29 17:56:25 bash head on wall May 29 17:57:39 or csh it May 29 17:58:48 topic moved #maemo May 29 18:15:56 ok. smplayer + mplayer working :) May 29 18:16:48 nothing work >< May 29 18:17:09 on n8x0? not sure, let's see what works. atm, xfce4 May 29 18:18:20 Illegal instruction (core dumped) > what it mean ?? May 29 18:18:27 Stskeeps: and something using a mutter plugin? May 29 18:18:50 like netbook UX one May 29 18:18:52 LaSaRuX: are we speaking about N8x0 or something else? May 29 18:18:58 N8x0 May 29 18:18:58 netbook UX doesn't even run on ARM yet, let alone n8x0 :P May 29 18:19:12 but it's very easy to run for sure May 29 18:19:26 it's only X with 3d May 29 18:19:38 well, no, it's opengl :P May 29 18:19:39 and the mutter window manager May 29 18:19:44 uhm May 29 18:19:46 hehe May 29 18:19:48 yes May 29 18:19:53 a tiny problem ;) May 29 18:20:24 anyone has an idea ? May 29 18:21:09 Stskeeps: what 3d hardware has N8x0 ? May 29 18:22:31 meego-help doesnt work too !!! May 29 18:23:11 LaSaRuX, PowerVR MBX May 29 18:23:23 LaSaRuX: MBX and it doesn't really work properly yet May 29 18:23:25 johnx: hi! May 29 18:23:40 hallo Stskeeps May 29 18:23:48 noone can help me ? May 29 18:23:48 congrats on the meego release(s) May 29 18:24:22 thanks May 29 18:24:45 hylix: comment something into the forums May 29 18:25:00 add info to the eeepc thread May 29 18:25:37 its writed that it has been tested on this pc May 29 18:25:58 and just the live doesnt works May 29 18:26:09 the half of apps crash May 29 18:27:46 well, if it's a non SSSE3 device, of course it will crash May 29 18:31:50 Stskeeps: first i dont know whats is an SSSE3 and second if it is not able to runs meego why my pc is in the list off supported pc ? May 29 18:31:54 of* May 29 18:33:07 hylix_: first question is if it's a Atom based CPU :P May 29 18:34:37 Stskeeps: eeepc 901 has an atom May 29 18:34:42 fair enough May 29 18:37:31 atom doesn't have sse3? May 29 18:39:47 it does, and ssse3 May 29 18:40:38 Hm, should the simulator be able to run on a machine without SSSE3? May 29 18:40:44 i wrote a post to forum.meego.com about getting smplayer to work. May 29 18:40:49 Vortiago: that's another good question.. May 29 18:41:10 'cuz it's running on my laptop right now, which I was pretty sure didn't have SSSE3 May 29 18:41:14 what's ssse3 May 29 18:41:28 i think there's more problems than benefit to the ssse3/atom/core 2 duo choice.. and not many that can't be fixed with hwcap May 29 18:48:09 Stskeeps, yes, but Intel wants to sell chips. :P May 29 18:48:31 GAN900: i highly doubt it's a business decision. May 29 18:48:56 there is technical sense to it, but circumstances are changing a bit. May 29 18:51:40 Stskeeps, you're clearly not cynical enough then. May 29 18:52:47 i am, except i already had these discussions May 29 18:53:30 the startup choice or being based on fedora May 29 19:03:23 Stskeeps, hwcap ? CPUID allows any application at runtime from user-space to detect capability May 29 19:04:05 odin_: yes, and using optimized libs based on that :P May 29 19:04:59 what regular functions are optimizing on it ? sure the 64bit ABI does optimizations the 32bit doesn't May 29 19:05:14 anything floating point and vector like i would guess May 29 19:05:33 but that is specialized, no what I'd call "regular" May 29 19:06:59 compiler can generate it automatically May 29 19:07:04 including codecs, graphics manipulation, etc... it should not be a packaging issue May 29 19:07:20 but you break the ABI, the ABI defines what the compiler must do May 29 19:08:42 3d graphics libraries and codec libraries can use SIMD instructions, but they never cross an ABI boundary May 29 19:09:14 yeah, except this is generated by a compiler, not assembly May 29 19:09:15 :P May 29 19:09:43 still that is ok too, providing it doesn't cross an ABI boundary May 29 19:11:08 for example I can have an external interface, that is ABI compatible to my library, so it loads a DSO, but inside the linkage between the objects is my own policy, everytime I call-out to another library (I cross an ABI boundary) so my specialized library ensure it follows the ABI rules May 29 19:11:27 go read up on hwcap May 29 19:11:27 :P May 29 19:12:11 if 32bit intel linux is doing some of the optimizations that 64bit intel linux (was able to do, because it started over with new features, then 32bit could be made more efficient on a modern 32bit only cpu) May 29 19:13:05 64bit brings the new floating point abi and more registers :) May 29 19:14:12 and guarantees about particular CPU insn's being available, and a register calling convention and return argument, yadda yadda May 29 19:14:18 ShadowJK, they doubled the number to 2? May 29 19:14:32 j/k of course, but x86 has always been register challenged May 29 19:15:17 6510 had 3 registers. but they werent general purpose :/ May 29 19:15:28 iirc May 29 19:15:52 hwcap is unnecessary for MMX/SSE, since there isn't much utility gotten by "general purpose" use for them May 29 19:16:30 however some of the other CPU supported things there is plenty of utility in May 29 19:17:10 yeah my first asm as 6502 on C64, LDA #ff, STX, LDA #00, lols May 29 19:19:42 * thiago_home wants IA-64's register set May 29 19:19:57 Intel Titianum? May 29 19:24:58 spide, I comment on your post May 29 19:26:55 odin_: STX requires an address. ;) May 29 19:27:04 ok. biggest issue was the config.mak editing. other things were fixed with installing stuff with yum. May 29 19:27:54 TSCHAK, oh darn! how much I have forgotten, maybe I meant TAX May 29 19:29:23 ;) May 29 19:30:00 the 6502 was my first CPU as well May 29 19:30:27 apple II here May 29 19:30:30 68k was principle place i learnt asm May 29 19:30:44 my first machine of my own, was an Atari 800..but I had a smattering of other machines as well (over 400 or so) May 29 19:30:52 then i got an 8088 and decided i didnt like cpus anymore May 29 19:31:07 I liked the 68000 instruction set May 29 19:31:11 very balanced May 29 19:31:27 yes we learned thatmat ujni May 29 19:31:29 uni May 29 19:31:38 having a decent registry set on chip and an instruction set capable of using it was a godsend. the ARM on n89X0s is similar May 29 19:31:56 yup. I consider the 6502 a grandfather of the modern ARM May 29 19:32:04 same philosophies May 29 19:32:09 more with less. May 29 19:32:15 then you can get linapple working :) May 29 19:32:29 got my own plate, bro May 29 19:32:33 and it's full May 29 19:32:35 lol :) May 29 19:32:49 well indeed, the BBC Micro => Acorn Archimedes => ARM CPU May 29 19:33:00 lol TSCHAKeee with 3million LoC to chump through i think you wont go hungry in your lifetime :p May 29 19:33:07 it runs, but the sounds it makes are fearsome to behold May 29 19:33:15 odin_: I have a BBC Micro in my collection as well May 29 19:33:45 at the last barcamp i went to someone had bbc micro used for pipe organ stuff May 29 19:33:47 :) May 29 19:33:49 yes I do too, but my collection is maybe just 4 machines of circa 1985..1992 May 29 19:33:52 i should release it with the modem+caterwaul sound playback just for fun May 29 19:34:21 basically, you name it, i've probably had it. May 29 19:34:38 Commodore Pet ? I best you are using it now! May 29 19:35:11 quite a few PETs May 29 19:35:24 a 2001, a 4032, an 8032, a 9000 SuperPET May 29 19:35:25 TSCHAKeee, bacterial and fungal :p May 29 19:35:42 wow TSCHAKeee :) May 29 19:35:43 and a smattering of IEEE-488 peripherals May 29 19:35:46 * Stskeeps misses his c64 which had a fuse blowout and we were too poor to fix it. May 29 19:35:48 * odin_ wonders if anyone wrote a cassette tape commodore 64 driver for a sound card ? May 29 19:36:26 someone wrote a real sampler for music tapes on the zx spectrum May 29 19:36:43 it was like voodoo May 29 19:36:58 I want to throw away my C64 games, on cassette, they are around here somewhere...... May 29 19:37:24 ....no what I really want to do is play them again, my guilty secret :P May 29 19:37:50 odin_: (1) any games you have on tape, are probably out there on the net, (2) EMULATION May 29 19:37:52 Im sure even if they have degraded badly a modern sound card can work out the bits and bytes May 29 19:37:52 :P May 29 19:38:13 um do you remember* what a pita cassettes were? May 29 19:38:16 no I want the enjoyment of waiting for it to load, emulation doesn't give me that May 29 19:38:23 hahah May 29 19:38:25 you sadistic bastard May 29 19:38:28 masochistic rather May 29 19:38:31 :P May 29 19:38:38 TSCHAKeee: you should meet joe May 29 19:38:45 he's a sadistic bastard May 29 19:38:46 i recall the superstition that touching the computer when it was LOAD'ing would harm the load and waste our time May 29 19:38:57 hehe... I do get flashing colours on screen to keep my busy while waiting May 29 19:39:00 LOAD"*",8,1 May 29 19:39:09 SEARCHING FOR * May 29 19:39:12 LOADING * May 29 19:39:26 *go-out-and-walk-across-town-and-back* May 29 19:39:27 in 8bit days you REALLY had to want to play a game, with loading times in the minutes and no multitasking it was something worth doing May 29 19:39:27 turbo loading and having to rewind the tape (if it went wrong) May 29 19:39:33 damn still loading May 29 19:39:46 well, the 1541 disk drive was not supposed to be that slow May 29 19:39:57 * TSCHAKeee knows all the C= engineers who designed the hardware May 29 19:39:59 i remember when spectrum gained a working pacman game during loading of something May 29 19:40:04 wasnt it the slow interface? May 29 19:40:09 well, to explain... May 29 19:40:13 * odin_ sighs May 29 19:40:17 it goes back to the VIC20 May 29 19:40:34 the VIC20 had a 6522 VIA in it, replacing the PIAs used in the PET May 29 19:40:46 the 6522 had two additional lines, which were high speed shift registers May 29 19:40:48 my, look how complicated computing has become now... I was looking forward to a carrier waiting for cassettes to load... while brewing a cuppa, but now I am rushed off my feet May 29 19:41:02 c/carrier/carreer/ May 29 19:41:11 which had been multiplexed with the existing slow speed shift registers (the IEC had two modes, fast and slow) May 29 19:41:36 the code to use the high speed shift registers had been shoved into ROM and had been shipped off to the fab May 29 19:41:48 and the computer was nearing completion May 29 19:42:12 there turned out to be a major problem with the VIC chip, and how it shared cycles with the bus and the 6502 May 29 19:42:24 and the 6522's VIA shift registers had a floating wave bug in them May 29 19:42:27 odin_, the cuppa while loading has been replaced with the cuppa while compiling ;) May 29 19:42:36 which literally caused a voltage spike on the bus while being used May 29 19:42:41 TSCHAKeee: ... wow May 29 19:42:45 not finished May 29 19:42:48 ;) May 29 19:43:13 so, when this bug was discovered, roughly...three days before CES May 29 19:43:31 Bob Russell scrambled back, and wrote a software based shift register in the KERNAL rom May 29 19:43:39 so thats why nokia take their time making a release, so no one ever complain again! otherwise your VIA shift-registers might be shifting the wrong way upside-down :P May 29 19:43:48 the story doesn't end there, funny enough May 29 19:43:54 remember, that Commodore owned MOS May 29 19:44:10 MOS went back, and made an improved VIA, the 6526 May 29 19:44:15 this was used, in the Commodore 64 May 29 19:44:35 they made faster shift registers, and wired them in, without the floating wave bug present in the 6522 May 29 19:44:49 (and sorry, the disk drive i was talking about before, was the 1540) May 29 19:45:06 they made a paired drive, the 1541, with a matching 6526 May 29 19:45:08 ah yes the 1540, the compact disk drive! May 29 19:45:27 it was about the length of a bus May 29 19:45:34 so , what happened, was.. May 29 19:45:44 they fixed the shift registers, and shipped it off to QA May 29 19:45:46 now.... May 29 19:45:52 QA in commodore were a rather idiotic bunch May 29 19:45:59 who didn't really talk to the engineering department May 29 19:46:35 so do you recon if they had got it all right when they send out their RTM they would have ruled the world ? May 29 19:46:54 brb May 29 19:46:58 door May 29 19:48:10 that drive with matching 6526... almost as "cool" as IBM's IDE May 29 19:49:49 back May 29 19:50:00 now..the QA department saw May 29 19:50:08 these two traces for the high speed shift line May 29 19:50:17 going to the exact same line as the slow speed shift lines May 29 19:50:20 they were multiplexed May 29 19:50:22 well May 29 19:50:33 the QA dept decided that those two extra lines were superfluous May 29 19:50:38 so they REMOVED THEM May 29 19:50:54 Aaahahahahaha May 29 19:51:02 Bob Russell was the engineer on the C64, once again May 29 19:51:07 and seeing that this happened, well May 29 19:51:14 he did the same thing that they did on the 1540 May 29 19:51:19 wrote a software based shift register May 29 19:51:35 taking into account this time that the VIC-II had additional bus time May 29 19:51:42 to take care of MOBs on screen (sprites) May 29 19:51:54 this bug was never fixed May 29 19:52:03 wow May 29 19:52:04 and had to wait for the Commodore 1571 May 29 19:52:15 and the C128 to get a high speed serial IEEE-488 bus. May 29 19:52:34 or, if you were lucky to have an IEEE-488 bus, you could use the higher speed (but older) PET devices May 29 19:52:47 pupnik: i have...a ton of..stories.. May 29 19:52:49 heheh May 29 19:52:51 that's a nice story May 29 19:53:10 my cousin had a mod for the drive May 29 19:53:12 commodore had a long history of shooting themselves in the foot May 29 19:53:48 lol so the demise (or lack of circa 1986 market position) was due to release engineering blunders, wow indeed May 29 20:00:33 odin_: oh marketing was a big factor then also May 29 20:00:35 and the c64 keyboard physically *resisted* typing :) May 29 20:01:02 i learnt to type.. and my handwriting is mimicing the on-screen font on the c64 May 29 20:01:37 ditto on typing (maybe thats why I only like klunky cherry like PC keyboards now) May 29 20:03:01 apple II keys at least went down without a fight May 29 20:03:12 cant remember the atari 800 May 29 20:05:46 odin_: same here - need a real keyboard http://www.flickr.com/photos/arnim-s/4573664099/ May 29 20:10:53 Stskeeps: sorry i had to go, what did you said after i gone ? May 29 20:11:12 hylix_: look at the logs May 29 20:11:40 mmh May 29 20:11:59 ok May 29 20:13:09 Oh i have understand May 29 20:13:25 in fact my eeepc is not 901 but 900 May 29 20:13:37 the cpu is an intel celeron May 29 20:13:54 and i just have sse2 May 29 20:14:00 ah May 29 20:14:02 that's why then May 29 20:15:14 Stskeeps: anyway is there any way to have the same interface ? May 29 20:16:32 what software is it you have needing SSE3 ? May 29 20:17:16 odin_: it seems that gtk apps dont use it but the games ,yum and meego help use it May 29 20:17:22 chromium too May 29 20:17:24 theoretically its possible to do CPU instruction emulation, but you won't get the best performance compared to unrolling the operation in a library May 29 20:17:46 I saw an N900 today, damn that thing's big May 29 20:18:16 are you doing something and getting an error, like a SIGBUS ? May 29 20:18:31 odin_: illegal instruction May 29 20:18:50 CosmoHill: you know what wm runs meego ? May 29 20:19:02 nope May 29 20:19:19 so you run "yum" and you get a SIGILL ? and does "file /usr/bin/yum" work ? May 29 20:19:45 yum in F12 appears to be a python job May 29 20:19:50 odin_: what is sigill ? and how to do ? May 29 20:21:10 sorry SIGILL is the signal number the kernel threw at the application, when it crashed it out, as a way of indicating the reason it crashed May 29 20:21:29 odin_: how do i know that ? May 29 20:22:06 your shell printed "Illegal Instruction" that is it giving you a pretty description for the SIGILL, anyhow May 29 20:22:41 so what is it you have loaded ? MeeGo for Intel ? what does "uname -a" say ? May 29 20:23:46 and what does "file /usr/bin/python" say May 29 20:24:14 uname -a say May 29 20:24:49 odin_: you want all the line ? :( May 29 20:24:56 normally they would make the installer package be i386 and detect the CPU on installation and then tune kernel/packages based on what it sees May 29 20:25:07 its i686 May 29 20:25:18 sure its only one line May 29 20:26:38 odin_: for file command : ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked May 29 20:26:52 stripped May 29 20:28:58 then if it dont works ill install arch, my first choice :) May 29 20:31:06 what mechanism did you use to install the OS, download an image and load ? burn a cd and boot ? May 29 20:34:02 it does clearly say in the "Installing MeeGo on your Netbook" that you'd need Eeepc 901, to use their download images and looks like an "image transfer" install, as opposted to a netinstall and package download May 29 20:35:47 maybe the intel community are working on an image for slightly older hardware, or even just a netinstall.iso that auto-detects May 29 20:36:39 odin_: in fact i have eeepc900 May 29 20:37:00 it doesnt have atom cpu but celeron cpu May 29 20:37:57 there is no reason why MeeGo can not be made to work on it, I am just trying to work out if the issue is that the "image transfer" is optimized for space May 29 20:38:33 and pre-built based on what Intel are targetting (trying to sell in the future) May 29 20:39:07 odin_: i dont understand May 29 20:40:25 well it maybe upto the Intel community to create a spin for older hardware May 29 20:40:35 as opposed to expecting Intel to do it May 29 20:42:07 odin_: ah ok May 29 20:45:44 ERROR booting from USB. /dev/loop2: cant read superblock ( i have dual boot Moblin and win xp) May 29 20:46:01 anyone can help? May 29 20:46:22 hamid11771, check you wrote the data to USB correctly ? May 29 20:46:45 odin_: i wrote using win32diskimage May 29 20:47:29 usb is a 16gb one May 29 20:47:36 and the format is fat32 May 29 20:48:28 hamid11771, what is it you are booting ? you have dual boot of Moblin & WinXp on the internal storage (MMC/SSD/HDD) ? and you want to bootup MeeGo live from USB to try it ? May 29 20:49:02 odin_: exactly May 29 20:50:20 hamid11771, the entire USB is devoted to trying out MeeGo ? unfortunately I have not tried the process yet May 29 20:51:19 odin_: yes. its devoted May 29 20:53:07 hamid11771, ok from looking at the instructions myself (having never tried them!) it not FAT formatted, the USB stick has a raw img copied onto it May 29 20:53:56 odin_: thanks bud for your help May 29 20:53:58 hamid11771, but providing you used Win32DiskImagher.exe (after the format, which sanity tells me you must have) it should not matter it was formatted May 29 20:56:03 using win32diskimager rendered the usb-stick unusable to windows myself. so it only worked as bootable media. windows could not read it. must use some other filesystem. May 29 20:56:39 bye bye all May 29 21:01:55 meego does not use a windows filesystem, correct spide May 29 21:05:21 well atleast ubuntu image is in fat16/32 :) May 29 21:05:53 or is it unetbootin magic there. May 29 21:06:25 yeah, lots of different ways to do a live boot May 29 21:06:37 ubuntu uses a live-cd style even when booting from usb May 29 21:07:53 ubuntu is trying very hard to piss me off, every month May 29 21:08:33 they do it just for you May 29 21:08:58 they all have meetings on IRC and talk about the next milestone for pissing off pupnik May 29 21:11:29 i knew it May 29 21:12:00 so I'll bite. how did they piss you off this month? May 29 21:12:30 < spide> well atleast ubuntu image is in fat16/32 : May 29 21:12:51 really? it's been like that for years May 29 21:13:10 also: you must get pissed off pretty easily May 29 21:14:07 why use that filesystem for a bootable linux OS image May 29 21:14:39 because they do the bootable thing by just copying the iso into place and mounting it loopback May 29 21:14:54 or rather they copy the contents of the iso May 29 21:15:05 oh oh nm then May 29 21:15:10 i misunderstood May 29 21:15:25 that's the cause of a lot of ubuntu hate :) May 29 21:15:32 its all about, accessibility by windows users to Linux and trying to convert them to suck their blood May 29 21:15:37 granted, there are things to hate about it :) May 29 21:15:58 because canonical is staffed by the undead May 29 21:16:18 their thirst for blood and their hunger for brains is insatiable May 29 21:16:45 that is so they can put thdeir readme on the usb/cdrom readble by winusers May 29 21:17:27 and not have their windows users bitch and complain that the USB key can't be used to put other stuff on at the same time May 29 21:17:30 i thought the livecd actually used some bastard vfat with metadata May 29 21:17:55 when i saw that comment May 29 21:18:02 how long you'd think it would last not in FAT and only usable by linux, its just a survival mechanism May 29 21:19:06 the longer it stays on the USB disk, the more chance the user might look at it May 29 21:22:40 well said May 29 22:43:36 i resolved my problem with bootloader . Meego does not install bootloader . Try install other any distribution (archlinux for me) ... reboot and install meego with all erase partition. Meego use Grub MBR . May 29 23:07:50 anyone know of a scsi to usb converter? May 29 23:08:22 google seems to know of some. no idea how well they work May 29 23:08:28 I dumped my SCSI stuff years ago May 29 23:09:04 i have some scsi hard drives May 29 23:09:54 want some IDE hard drives? I have spares :) May 29 23:10:10 maybe... May 29 23:10:21 shipping probably wouldn't be worth it sadly May 29 23:14:04 someone has a bundle of processors somewhere in his home May 29 23:14:20 i think he was gonna post it a year ago :/ May 29 23:19:08 nite all, sweet dreams May 29 23:20:45 freddo: meego does not use grub but syslinux May 29 23:37:27 CosmoHill: try old usb floppy drives May 29 23:37:55 i have a load of them somewhere May 29 23:46:25 can i use moblin-web-browser instead of chromium .at toolbar? May 29 23:46:40 meego-toolbar May 29 23:49:59 Empathy crash May 30 00:06:20 hi May 30 00:06:44 somebody try to boot meego v.1.0 on parallels May 30 00:06:59 the live version I mine? May 30 00:09:35 koupsaa: realistically, you can use chrome or chromium.... May 30 00:09:44 we've stopped work on any other browser May 30 00:10:10 giasone: that's going to be painful; I don[t know of any virtualization thing that supports 3D well enough May 30 00:10:19 VMware player? May 30 00:11:09 at the moment I istalling it on a virtualbox machine May 30 00:11:23 and seems like it go forth May 30 00:11:44 iI want give it a try before install on y netbook May 30 00:12:27 arjan, ok, for now i use meego-chromium. but on somes site he doesn't work and after 3 or 4 tabs he become (became? sorry my english) very slow May 30 00:12:57 I've heard tabs 3 and later become slow May 30 00:14:53 arjan, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=320 it's happen to me too May 30 00:16:26 giasone: as far as I know, meego does not really work in virtualbox May 30 00:16:36 giasone: If you get it working, let me know what you did May 30 00:17:52 i reboot the vm but give me boot error May 30 00:17:56 arjan, you and your team have made a nice work (specially UI) :) May 30 00:21:03 nice italian translation May 30 00:24:33 * CosmoHill gives intel and nokia a box of cookies May 30 00:25:28 CosmoHill, and the others nothing? :( :) May 30 00:25:49 * CosmoHill gives a box to contributors May 30 00:26:31 how many cookies for one rpm ? May 30 00:27:23 1? May 30 00:27:36 maybe 2 May 30 00:28:20 question: where can i posted my meego-rpm for the community May 30 00:28:40 I believe this was covered in the TSG May 30 00:37:51 koupsaa: look in this weeks TSG logs May 30 00:38:43 2010/05/26 ? May 30 00:38:47 yes May 30 00:45:34 markatto: black screen after first configuration May 30 00:45:44 doesn't work May 30 00:55:04 giasone: yeah for me the installer works, but it can't actually boot May 30 00:55:18 it hangs as soon as the wallpaper appears May 30 00:59:58 yes the same for me May 30 01:00:24 but i try it on netbook directly May 30 01:01:15 Any chance MeeGo will play nice with VMWare? May 30 01:02:47 I don't know but sure doesn't with parallels and freeze on desktop image in virtualbox May 30 01:17:20 you can probably get meego into command line only May 30 01:18:25 cyas May 30 01:28:44 It works on my Acer one 110 May 30 01:28:54 really fastly May 30 01:30:18 someone tested maemo @Asus 1101HA? May 30 01:30:22 *meego May 30 01:30:24 :) sry May 30 01:42:02 but what about a productivity software May 30 01:42:12 openoffice and/or co? May 30 01:42:25 i f i want read a document? May 30 01:43:17 good night meego to sleep May 30 01:45:52 giasone, perhaps meego has packet manager, or some repositorys May 30 01:46:45 hope so :) May 30 02:07:51 Is anybody running meego on an N800 tablet? May 30 02:22:15 are there any plans for recent phones running symbian os to be able to "upgrade" to meego OS? like an alternate OS May 30 02:22:49 bjk, doubtful. May 30 02:24:03 i need a linux based phone but the symbian phones have all the hardware features i need. and i dont want to have to buy a new phone when meego is more widely available May 30 02:24:22 some symbian based phones anyway May 30 02:24:36 bjk, what about the n900? it doesn't suit your needs? May 30 02:24:57 yeah, but i don't have that kind of money May 30 02:26:17 i wonder if anyones working on a linux port for any symbian phones. need detailed hardware specs. May 30 02:32:13 good luck finding enough specs to port the kernel, then finding drivers for all the hardware May 30 02:33:29 bjk, i dont think the phones are quite powerful enough to run meego properly May 30 02:33:38 besides...symbian is an good OS May 30 02:33:42 isn't symbian opensource now? shouldn't the drivers be too? May 30 02:34:00 bjk: it is open source, yes, but the drivers may not be there May 30 02:34:51 even an openembedded recipe would be good. could put qtopia on there or anything X11 May 30 02:37:27 havent used symbian yet. i'm looking to get a new phone and i'd like to know my options for the future of it May 30 02:45:22 hi, so both of the meego downloads either come with chrome or chromium? May 30 02:48:05 ok, now I see that is true. Horrible May 30 02:49:25 I know, lack of adblock and noscript sucks **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 30 02:59:56 2010