**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 31 02:59:56 2010
May 31 03:57:37 <Arizona> is the Meego chnnel live? And s there anyone here?
May 31 03:58:58 <TSCHAKeee2> yes. although most of the developers are t "awake" at the moment.
May 31 04:02:21 * arjan is just hacking some Qt code ;)
May 31 04:04:23 <Arizona> I've got a Asus 900 netbook, a cheap woot purchased one with a celeron instead of Atom processor, and no camera. I've been putting on quite a few small OSes on it and am currently downloading meego to see what you've got. Does Meego work on eee Netbooks?
May 31 04:04:47 <Arizona> What works and what does not?
May 31 04:05:20 <Arizona> The download still has another estimated hour to go.
May 31 04:06:11 <Arizona> Is there any support for the wifi chipset in the EEE Pcs?
May 31 04:06:29 <arjan> unfortunately, the meego build you download needs an Atom or Core2 or so processor
May 31 04:06:33 <arjan> the 900 does not work
May 31 04:06:42 <arjan> the 900A does work
May 31 04:06:47 <arjan> but not the celeron one
May 31 04:08:13 <Arizona> OK, I guess I'll stop the download. thanks for the info!
May 31 04:35:17 * arjan runs valgrind on my Qt app
May 31 04:35:19 <arjan> oh my.
May 31 04:37:30 <TSCHAKeee2> hahahaha
May 31 04:37:38 <TSCHAKeee2> ...one week later....
May 31 04:37:42 <TSCHAKeee2> oh look, a pixel
May 31 04:37:46 <TSCHAKeee2> :D
May 31 04:39:25 * TSCHAKeee2 is making a dev chroot for his joggler orbiter work
May 31 04:48:48 <arjan> TSCHAK: more like.. tons of memory leaks
May 31 04:48:57 <TSCHAK> heheh
May 31 04:49:20 <TSCHAK> arjan, are the bits of code for the current meego netbook UX still sitting over in moblin's repository?
May 31 04:49:29 <arjan> they're moving over tuesday
May 31 04:49:31 <TSCHAK> ok.
May 31 04:49:38 <arjan> we kinda missed them in the release plan
May 31 04:49:47 <arjan> and when we realized that friday it was too late to do a proper move
May 31 04:49:53 <TSCHAK> oops.
May 31 04:49:57 <arjan> we want to move them while preserving branches and such
May 31 04:50:06 <arjan> which means it's not a trivial "git push and be done with it"
May 31 04:50:12 <TSCHAK> yeah, i'm aware..
May 31 04:50:14 <TSCHAK> :/
May 31 04:50:48 <TSCHAK> arjan, do you know what's being used as the window manager for the handset UX side of things?
May 31 04:51:01 <arjan> the meego touch one
May 31 04:51:08 <arjan> I think it's called mcompositor or something
May 31 04:51:12 <TSCHAK> okay.
May 31 04:51:20 <TSCHAK> interesting.
May 31 05:56:11 <vikithakar> Is there any way to use Meego on my desktop?
May 31 05:58:02 <arjan> if you have intel graphics gpu.. then yes
May 31 05:58:05 * arjan does it all the time ;)
May 31 06:01:06 <Corsac> I should try it, but I'm not sure celeron has the needed bits :)
May 31 06:01:48 <arjan> check for ssse3 in /proc/cpuinfo
May 31 06:02:18 <Corsac> hmhm though it's intel64 compatible, so...
May 31 06:03:38 <Corsac> nop, sse, sse2 but no sse3
May 31 06:03:46 <Corsac> crappy cpu
May 31 06:11:02 <tmzt> 64bit celeron
May 31 06:11:03 <tmzt> ?
May 31 06:11:10 <Corsac> yeah
May 31 06:11:14 <Corsac> model name	: Intel(R) Celeron(R) D CPU 3.20GHz
May 31 06:33:30 <villemv> just got "meego platform bug jar in email"
May 31 06:33:40 <villemv> it seems to have bugs for handheld ux as well
May 31 06:33:53 <Stskeeps> open development is great, isn't it? :)
May 31 06:34:21 <villemv> did I miss an announcement somewhere? :)
May 31 06:34:41 <Stskeeps> nah, just that i think it's one of those areas that weren't closed off
May 31 06:34:54 * TSCHAKeee2 facepalms
May 31 06:35:11 <Stskeeps> situation should hopefully change soon
May 31 06:35:20 * TSCHAKeee2 does a rain dance
May 31 06:35:25 * TSCHAKeee2 sacrifices a goat
May 31 06:35:38 <TSCHAKeee2> hey, maybe it'll help
May 31 06:35:45 <TSCHAKeee2> nothing else has at this point
May 31 06:35:48 <TSCHAKeee2> :P :)
May 31 06:39:14 <villemv> at this point, if I was to look for information about MeeGo, it seems bugzilla is the place to go
May 31 06:39:32 <villemv> you can "deduce" tons of stuff from the bugs
May 31 06:39:46 <TSCHAKeee2> *nod*
May 31 06:39:48 <villemv> (if one was not inclined to wait, that is)
May 31 06:40:04 * TSCHAKeee2 wants to get his hands on mcompositor
May 31 06:40:20 <villemv> TSCHAKeee2: mcompositor is on gitorious, right?
May 31 06:40:29 <TSCHAKeee2> is it?
May 31 06:40:35 <villemv> i think so
May 31 06:40:37 <TSCHAKeee2> i couldn't find it
May 31 06:40:40 <TSCHAKeee2> hm ok
May 31 06:41:03 <villemv> http://qt.gitorious.org/maemo-6-ui-framework/duicompositor
May 31 06:41:42 <tmzt> what is the dui?
May 31 06:41:48 <villemv> old name for meegotough
May 31 06:41:51 <villemv> touch
May 31 06:41:59 <villemv> directui
May 31 06:42:43 <tmzt> this is the component that requires 3d hardware?
May 31 06:42:58 <Stskeeps> well, not so much required but is optimized on top of
May 31 06:42:59 <villemv> well, it does use opengl, yes
May 31 06:43:04 <TSCHAKeee2> hm it looks like it's over in..yeah.
May 31 06:43:10 <tmzt> doesn't use TFP?
May 31 06:43:20 <Stskeeps> compositor might i guess
May 31 06:43:40 <TSCHAKeee2> is the plan for meego touch to still use x, i wonder...
May 31 06:43:49 <villemv> yes
May 31 06:43:50 <TSCHAKeee2> guess i will just rifle through the code
May 31 06:43:54 <TSCHAKeee2> ok
May 31 06:44:01 <tmzt> let's hope, everybody else is moving to android display system
May 31 06:44:03 <villemv> meegotouch uses normal X11 qt
May 31 06:44:27 <TSCHAKeee2> android display system...heh.
May 31 06:44:34 <TSCHAKeee2> openmax on a framebuffer
May 31 06:45:53 <tmzt> android display system isn't openmax
May 31 06:46:49 <TSCHAKeee2> oh ok
May 31 06:58:00 <fabo> Corsac: pykickstart accepted on Debian archive.
May 31 07:22:59 <kisse> is anyone awake?
May 31 07:23:15 <Stskeeps> sortof
May 31 07:24:46 <kisse> is there ANY possible way to configure moblin-power-icon at all?
May 31 07:27:07 <kisse> it's like, someone decided that it was ok to dictate that everyone should have their machine enter sleep mode when they shut their lid
May 31 07:27:34 <Stskeeps> mm, forum.meego.com might be of help
May 31 07:27:51 <kisse> I posted there, no one even responded at all about it
May 31 07:28:04 <kisse> They like... ignore it, like it's some sort of horrible plague item
May 31 07:28:24 <kisse> ... personally, I don't blame them... as it seems to be and impossible thing that I'm asking for
May 31 07:28:54 <kisse> it's like asking someone to willingly bash their head against the world, because I'm tired of doing so myself
May 31 07:29:16 <Stskeeps> next step is meego-dev mailing list, indicating the problem, or submitting it asa bug
May 31 07:36:28 <kisse> Stskeeps: I think a bug is a good call
May 31 07:37:58 <kisse> v_v ... god... meego's link to create a bugzilla account returns "Access Denied"
May 31 07:38:30 <Stskeeps> shouldn't
May 31 07:38:55 <kisse> This is seriously so frustrating, because I prefer Meego so much, that I'm willing to boot into Win7 to leave my IM on while my lid is closed while I sleep
May 31 07:39:10 <Stskeeps> try with your meego.com login on bugzilla
May 31 07:39:22 <kisse> kk
May 31 07:39:36 <kisse> yep, that worked :)
May 31 07:39:47 <Stskeeps> 'access denied' is such a horrid message :)
May 31 07:42:49 <kisse> I'm too worn out right now... my first instinct is to post a horrible hate and obscenity filled bug laden with arrogant and self-righteous indignity....
May 31 07:44:05 <kisse> which is ENTIRELY not lady-like
May 31 07:44:07 <kisse> heh
May 31 07:45:17 <Stskeeps> well, you're sending bugs to people who are humans too, so be specific and straightforward, that makes your bug be responded to better :P
May 31 07:48:29 <Vortiago> kisse, try editing the file /etc/acpi/events/lid.conf
May 31 07:48:40 <Corsac> fabo: cool
May 31 07:49:03 <Vortiago> As I understand it that's the file being run when you close the lid
May 31 07:49:10 <kisse> Vortiago: I emptied out the entire lid.sh file already.  The problem is that moblin-power-icon is actually doing the lid event
May 31 07:49:16 <Vortiago> oh
May 31 07:49:32 <kisse> the lid.sh runs as well, but it pretty much doesn't do anything at all, because moblin-power-icon is running
May 31 08:08:35 <gour> morning
May 31 08:09:35 <gour> atm, meego does not work under vm (vbox) as moblin did, so the question is if it's on todo list or one has to buy new hardware to taste it?
May 31 08:11:51 <thiago> the problem is opengl
May 31 08:25:01 <gour> thiago: so, no solution on the horizon?
May 31 08:28:48 <thiago> gour: not that I know of
May 31 08:29:42 <gour> too bad...we had high hopes about the prospect of meego development based on moblin :-/
May 31 08:30:36 <gour> it is really limiting that one needs intel graphic in order to be able to do pc development
May 31 08:30:38 <Stskeeps> gour: handset ux or netbook ux?
May 31 08:30:57 <Stskeeps> gour: i think it's actually more about that people should set up guides how to make .ks'es containing nvidia, virtualbox, etc
May 31 08:31:02 <gour> Stskeeps: i tried to install meego-netbook
May 31 08:31:48 <Tm_T> Stskeeps: the idea of copying the related files from host system sounds a reasonable solution to me if it works
May 31 08:31:51 <gour> Stskeeps: i can only see twm in meego under vbox :-(
May 31 08:32:11 <gour> with moblin it was dl & play
May 31 08:32:47 <kisse> meego kind of had a bit of a radical rewrite... enough to lose some previous features :(
May 31 08:33:27 <gour> true...but, imho, the current release hardly deserves 1.0 tag
May 31 08:33:39 <Tm_T> how so?
May 31 08:34:13 * Tm_T thinks people stares too much those numbers
May 31 08:34:17 <gour> ..considering "this release provides developers with a stable core foundation for application development "...
May 31 08:34:36 <gour> one needs special hardware in order to even see how meego looks
May 31 08:35:39 <gour> Tm_T: check some of the comments in http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=202
May 31 08:41:38 <pupnik> runs on a lenovo x61 and S10-2 as well
May 31 08:42:17 <gour> people wants running in VM
May 31 08:42:50 <Stskeeps> gour: grab mic2 and see if you can drop virtual box extensions into the meego image
May 31 08:44:20 <gour> Stskeeps: ok. will try
May 31 08:44:45 <Stskeeps> i believe meego can't include them by default since they're closed source
May 31 08:44:53 <Stskeeps> (to my best knowledge)
May 31 08:45:15 <timeless_mbp> ?
May 31 08:45:25 * timeless_mbp is pretty sure the guest additions are open source for linux
May 31 08:45:28 <timeless_mbp> for windows they're closed
May 31 08:45:57 <timeless_mbp> iirc i installed guest additions into moblin w/o significant issue (one bug + patch @ virtualbox.org)
May 31 08:46:21 <srs2k> hi there. where can i ask a question about meego setup?
May 31 08:46:54 <Stskeeps> define 'setup'
May 31 08:47:19 <Jartza> yeah, without getting meego to run in virtualbox etc. it's quite useless & pointless at least for me
May 31 08:47:27 <Jartza> I don't want to use my netbook for development :P
May 31 08:47:49 <timeless_mbp> Jartza: meego development isn't quite selfhosted
May 31 08:47:55 <timeless_mbp> it's generally done using OBS
May 31 08:47:59 <Jartza> I know
May 31 08:48:03 <timeless_mbp> which is not really the same thing...
May 31 08:48:12 <timeless_mbp> if you mean testing, ...
May 31 08:48:13 <Jartza> but for "real life testing" I'd like to run my apps in "real meego"
May 31 08:48:27 <Jartza> and yes, I count testing as a part of development :)
May 31 08:49:23 <srs2k> i've downloaded meego image and want to put it on flash drive where grub4dos installed. which lines i need to write in 'menu.lst'?
May 31 08:54:55 <mindThomas> any guys from UK in here?
May 31 08:55:41 <Stskeeps> mindThomas: phrasing it like you're not seeking out a date might be better :)
May 31 08:55:47 <Stskeeps> like adding why you are looking for UK people
May 31 08:58:18 <sivang> Good Morning to all the soggy cats.
May 31 08:58:21 <sivang> :)
May 31 08:58:31 <sivang> Stskeeps: hehe
May 31 08:58:39 <sivang> there are a couple
May 31 08:58:45 <sivang> (UKpeople)
May 31 08:59:01 <timeless_mbp> sivang: don't feed the ignorant, let Stskeeps teach them to fish
May 31 08:59:10 <sivang> timeless_mbp: sure sure , sorry :)
May 31 08:59:50 <sivang> on a related note, anybody to offer a place to crash in London between the 15th and 17th of September? O:-)
May 31 09:00:25 <sivang> I'll bring in good mood beer and snacks :)
May 31 09:00:31 <spide> preferably a hot female. :)
May 31 09:00:43 <sivang> spide: my sister (20 year old) will accompany me
May 31 09:01:09 <Termana> If shes blonde, spide has a room
May 31 09:01:13 <Termana> :P
May 31 09:01:13 <sivang> haha
May 31 09:01:16 <spide> sivang: adding a link to a pic of your sister might add to offers.
May 31 09:01:19 <sivang> so shovenistic
May 31 09:01:22 <spide> not from uk sorry :(
May 31 09:01:33 <sivang> :)
May 31 09:04:51 <Myrtti> ...
May 31 09:05:54 <Myrtti> you guys manage to disappoint me almost every day. Good Job.
May 31 09:06:06 <kisse> sivang: chauvanistic*
May 31 09:06:27 <sivang> kisse: right , I should know this came from French :-p
May 31 09:06:36 <kisse> ah... chauvinist*
May 31 09:06:51 <sivang> Myrtti: in what way?
May 31 09:06:53 <kisse> Ami english drops so much vowel quality from unstressed syllables :(
May 31 09:14:32 <Myrtti> sivang: making women (or atleast me) feel like piece of meat
May 31 09:15:00 <LinuxCode> you are pieces of meat, just as we men are pieces of meat
May 31 09:15:22 <LinuxCode> dirty filthy human pieces of meat
May 31 09:16:46 <Termana> Especially LinuxCode
May 31 09:16:50 <Termana> :D
May 31 09:16:50 * gour thinks that "...we have piece of meat, but we are not that..."
May 31 09:17:12 <LinuxCode> Termana, we are all pieces of useless humanoid meat
May 31 09:17:25 <LinuxCode> probably be all dead in 200 years
May 31 09:17:33 <LinuxCode> extinct as a race
May 31 09:17:45 <sx0n> nerds as a race?
May 31 09:17:45 <Termana> LinuxCode, your timing is a little off
May 31 09:17:47 <LinuxCode> or species, rather
May 31 09:17:51 <LinuxCode> hehe
May 31 09:18:00 <Termana> 2012 is only 2 years away!
May 31 09:18:01 <Termana> :P
May 31 09:18:04 <LinuxCode> haha
May 31 09:18:08 <sx0n> it's dangerous specie
May 31 09:18:12 <LinuxCode> thats what they said in 2000
May 31 09:18:28 <LinuxCode> and ehhh 1996 ?
May 31 09:18:58 <sx0n> at epoch
May 31 09:19:11 <pupnik> it is funny that "developers" have no idea why meego uxlaunch wont run in their non-gl VMs
May 31 09:19:39 <Stskeeps> uhm, uxlaunch just launches gl-dependant stuff..
May 31 09:19:59 <sx0n> is there easy way to deactivate uxlaunch? i tried to kill it.
May 31 09:20:06 <Stskeeps> if you don't want a UI
May 31 09:20:06 <Stskeeps> :P
May 31 09:20:30 <Termana> Stskeeps, isn't that exactly pupnik's point? People are wondering why gl-dependant things are unable to run in a non-gl enviroment
May 31 09:20:58 <Stskeeps> logic ought to be taught in first grade.
May 31 09:24:29 <sivang> Stskeeps: Before birth.
May 31 09:27:56 <tmzt> Termana: it can confusing why a 2d ui needs a 3d api
May 31 09:28:41 <leinir> tmzt: You seem to be misunderstanding something vital about opengl... :)
May 31 09:30:16 <tmzt> oh?
May 31 09:30:34 <leinir> Well, opengl is a graphics acceleration framework more than it's a 3d framework :)
May 31 09:31:27 <mindThomas> Stskeeps: You live in UK right? I talked to you yesterday
May 31 09:31:33 <mindThomas> About the O2 Joggler
May 31 09:48:51 <pxchen> If meego will use QT to rewrite Netbook UX?
May 31 09:52:28 <sx0n> pxchen, User Experience will be powered by Qt.
May 31 09:52:45 <sx0n> at least.
May 31 09:53:29 <pxchen> Use Harmattan UI Framework?
May 31 09:53:43 <Tm_T> prolly no
May 31 09:53:59 <Tm_T> Harmattan is quite different beast
May 31 09:55:05 <Termana> Thats not very nice
May 31 09:55:10 <Termana> Calling Harmattan a beast
May 31 09:55:12 <Termana> :P
May 31 09:55:17 <Stskeeps> go read about it on wikipedia
May 31 09:55:17 <Stskeeps> :P
May 31 09:55:32 * sx0n loads a rifle with a silver bullets
May 31 09:55:36 <Tm_T> Termana: better than calling it little kitty
May 31 09:56:16 <pxchen> This means Meego Use a new UI Framework?
May 31 09:56:36 <smoku> "User Experience will be powered by Qt" - pretty buzzwords straight from marketing flyer :D
May 31 09:57:12 <sx0n> smoku, yes :) but that's because i don't know anything.
May 31 09:58:01 <smoku> sx0n: :)  no offence. you just made me laugh ;-)
May 31 10:03:52 <Guest18947> Is there any information about the handset UI?
May 31 10:09:57 <gour> havinr read that "he next Nokia mobile phone running the Harmatten “MeeGo Instance” will not be a pure MeeGo device, but will support MeeGo applications." makes me really wondering what will happen with meego
May 31 10:10:24 <Termana> gour, in what way?
May 31 10:10:50 <gour> it looks like mudded water
May 31 10:11:06 <gour> nokia is not behind meego, meego is quite closed...strange
May 31 10:11:29 <Termana> gour, how is MeeGo closed?
May 31 10:11:53 <Termana> That would defy one of the very reasons MeeGo exists
May 31 10:12:30 <gour> Termana: it needs special hardware...have you read comments in http://meegoreview.com/2010/05/no-official-meego-release-for-nokia-n900/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MeeGoReview+%28MeeGo+Review%29 & http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=202
May 31 10:13:17 <Termana> gour, needing GL/GLES - a) does not require "special" hardware and b) does not make it closed
May 31 10:13:44 <Termana> You can full well run MeeGo without GL/GLES hardware, you just won't be able to use the MeeGo UIs
May 31 10:13:52 <gour> Termana: it requires one to have intel graphic in order to develop for it
May 31 10:14:14 <gour> how can i test app without ui? building terminal apps?
May 31 10:14:32 <Termana> gour, use something like Gnome, KDE, XFCE etc.
May 31 10:15:07 <gour> i use that, but i would like to develop mobile app as well
May 31 10:15:27 <Termana> gour, also while I don't like the fact the x86 instances of MeeGo are very Intel specific - it doesn't make it closed
May 31 10:15:30 <gour> i don't need meego for desktop replacement
May 31 10:15:55 <gour> ok...let's stick to a) then
May 31 10:16:01 <Termana> gour, you can run MeeGo with Gnome, KDE etc. instead of the MeeGo UI and develop apps with that
May 31 10:16:58 <gour> as i said, i have my desktop DE...i want to develop app for netbook/smart-phone and do you expect to have gnome kde etc. there?
May 31 10:17:30 <Termana> gour, no, but you can still develop an app that runs under the MeeGo UI without using it yourself
May 31 10:17:50 <gour> how? by magic?
May 31 10:17:58 <smoku> gour: Nokia fully supports MeeGo. They just invested too much in Meego6/Harmattan, that they cannot afford scraping it. And even if they could, there's no way of getting MeeGo ready for the upcoming 2010 device. But I guess next NIT will be MeeGo based, not only MeeGo compatible.
May 31 10:18:22 <Tm_T> smoku: you'll mean Maemo6/Harmattan there
May 31 10:18:33 <smoku> Tm_T: yup. typo :)
May 31 10:18:35 <Termana> gour, obviously you don't understand the way Linux is architectured. Its the same thing with running KDE apps in Gnome
May 31 10:19:03 <gour> Termana: you forget one thing...kde & gnome runs on whatever hardware
May 31 10:19:13 * gour uses lxde  + xmonad
May 31 10:19:27 * Tm_T is silly and has KDE in Windows too
May 31 10:19:36 <Termana> gour, EXACTLY - but you don't need to be USING KDE to compile and use a KDE app
May 31 10:19:36 <gour> ..which is not the case for meego.
May 31 10:19:57 <gour> sure, but i can install kdelibs and see how it works under gnome
May 31 10:20:25 <gour> and i cannot even run meego installed under vm
May 31 10:20:49 <gour> btw, it's not me only who complains...you can try to defend as much as you like
May 31 10:21:08 <Termana> gour, you'll find that you can still use the MeeGo libraries, just not the UI
May 31 10:21:12 <Termana> UI itself*
May 31 10:21:34 <gour> which meego libs?
May 31 10:21:42 <gour> what's the point of them without ui?
May 31 10:21:44 <Stskeeps> gour: i think it's on organisational level, not technical level
May 31 10:22:20 <gour> Stskeeps: it's showstopper, no matter on which level
May 31 10:22:28 <Stskeeps> gour: i agree
May 31 10:22:31 <gour> and that's what counts
May 31 10:22:56 <Tm_T> you cannot change past, so let's work on for the future
May 31 10:23:07 <gour> it's better to agree (/me appreciates Stskeeps) than to defend effortlessly
May 31 10:23:42 <gour> Tm_T: yeah, but it's disappointeg move after quite nice experience with moblin
May 31 10:23:47 <Tm_T> I have seen almost only negative complaining after the release, instead of building for whatever they are interested on
May 31 10:23:59 <Tm_T> gour: and complaining wont change it, unfortunately
May 31 10:25:44 <Tm_T> all this critique is going well past the usefullness IMO
May 31 10:25:47 <mindThomas> Any UK guys in here who would call their local O2 store for me and ask if they have any O2 Joggler's left?
May 31 10:26:09 <gour> maybe, 1.0 was rushed a bit
May 31 10:26:25 <Tm_T> sure it was, I didn't expect anything more
May 31 10:27:24 <gour> then it should have 0.1 tag...
May 31 10:27:52 <Tm_T> gour: hey, really, it is already done, there's no amount of complaining that will change it
May 31 10:28:14 <Tm_T> I know it very well how easy it is just complain instead of do something myself so the next release would be better
May 31 10:28:27 <gour> Tm_T: there was, imho, enough time after merge was announced to devise a better plan...
May 31 10:28:55 <gour> now it just creates bitter taste and make people to turn to android...
May 31 10:29:27 <Tm_T> gour: and we are going circles, it's already done, you cannot change the past
May 31 10:30:41 <gour> Tm_T: right. but i see some people here are defending the present status which means that the lesson is not learnt ; (aka, we can expect similar blunders in the future)
May 31 10:31:23 <Tm_T> gour: well, things aren't decided here, so better give propositions with positive examples towards release planning
May 31 10:32:02 <sx0n> gour, which android version are you referring? i've heard that those are not compatible which each other. that's good reason to complain imo.
May 31 10:32:02 <Stskeeps> gour: i think the best direction is showing we can include virtualbox 3d drivers for instance
May 31 10:32:15 <smoku> gour: but what's your point really?  if you want to develop app for the upcoming meego, just start developing Qt app. then when the release is settled you need to make only minor adjustments.
May 31 10:32:16 <pupnik> gour did you once work in molecular biology?
May 31 10:32:27 <gour> Tm_T: then it meens that we are coming to b) :-D
May 31 10:33:05 <gour> sx0n: i'm not at all familiar with android...didn't even take a look at it...only moblin & maemo were on the stake here
May 31 10:33:31 <gour> Stskeeps: that would be cool
May 31 10:33:56 <Stskeeps> gour: the alternative is qemu gaining  3d ability
May 31 10:34:26 <gour> it could be...
May 31 10:34:34 <pupnik> btw i think vmware can pass opengl to host X session
May 31 10:35:15 <gour> smoku: i'm not sure how many adjustments would be required...e.g. handheld ui is not the same as desktop
May 31 10:35:19 <Vortiago> Anyone tried running it with the help of VMGL?
May 31 10:35:27 <sx0n> i've hoped for over 10 years that linux provide good hw integration but has not happened so far.
May 31 10:35:49 <sx0n> hopefully meego will provide that.
May 31 10:36:06 <Stskeeps> Vortiago: feel free to be the first
May 31 10:36:24 <smoku> gour: well.. I'm sure it's less work, than waiting and starting from scratch when meego settles
May 31 10:37:22 <gour> smoku: how do you think this graphic issue will be resolved?
May 31 10:37:41 <gour> (than one can develop on desktop pc using VM)
May 31 10:39:16 <gour> s/than/that
May 31 10:39:29 <jarkko^> vmgl supports only  < 2.0 opengl
May 31 10:39:48 <jarkko^> atleast the last time i tried it
May 31 10:42:07 <jarkko^> not very good long term solution
May 31 10:42:47 <jarkko^> shaders and such things are mandatory to do any real world gl stuff
May 31 10:42:47 <gour> i also doubt about qemu & 3d
May 31 10:45:06 <jarkko^> "OpenGL up to version 1.5 is supported (sorry, no 2.0 shading languages,)"
May 31 10:45:12 <jarkko^> from vmgl homepage
May 31 10:46:28 <smoku> gour: what do you need VM for?
May 31 10:46:45 <smoku> gour: Qt runs natively on most platforms
May 31 10:47:07 <Tm_T> smoku: name one platform it doesn't run
May 31 10:47:19 <Vortiago> My Wii
May 31 10:47:23 <pupnik> Roughly speaking, OpenGL up to version 1.5 is supported (sorry, no 2.0 shading languages,) with the following exceptions:
May 31 10:47:23 <Tm_T> ...that is even closely relevant to this topic, that is (:
May 31 10:47:23 <Stskeeps> nokia 770?
May 31 10:47:28 <Stskeeps> Vortiago: actually, not true
May 31 10:47:32 <pupnik> http://vmgl.sourceforge.net/
May 31 10:47:34 <Stskeeps> Vortiago: Mer had Qt which ran on wii
May 31 10:47:35 <Stskeeps> :P
May 31 10:47:38 <Tm_T> Stskeeps: it doesn't run on it?
May 31 10:47:41 <Vortiago> Stskeeps, seriously? Sweet
May 31 10:47:42 <sx0n> http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=16
May 31 10:47:48 <pupnik> haha jarkko^
May 31 10:47:50 <smoku> Tm_T: MorphOS
May 31 10:48:07 <Stskeeps> Vortiago: we made a powerpc port ;)
May 31 10:48:49 <gour> smoku: to run meego ui
May 31 10:48:55 <Tm_T> smoku: never heard of it
May 31 10:49:15 <jarkko^> pupnik: duplicate :)
May 31 10:49:33 <smoku> Tm_T: congrats ;P
May 31 10:49:46 <Tm_T> smoku: (:)
May 31 10:51:25 <pupnik> smoku: tried building anything yet?
May 31 10:51:38 <smoku> pupnik: context?
May 31 10:51:43 <pupnik> for meego
May 31 10:51:53 <smoku> no. I hate Qt ;-)
May 31 10:52:50 <pupnik> is sdl banned then?
May 31 10:53:04 <Stskeeps> no
May 31 10:53:14 <smoku> well... but it's not really "for meego" then ;-)
May 31 10:53:17 <Stskeeps> just like maemo didn't ban qt when it was qt..
May 31 10:53:17 <Stskeeps> :P
May 31 10:53:23 <Stskeeps> when it was gtk based, that is
May 31 10:56:12 <smoku> but I tried building my own image with mic2
May 31 10:56:18 <smoku> and failed so far ;-)
May 31 10:56:27 <Stskeeps> x86 or arm?
May 31 10:56:30 <Stskeeps> and under what os
May 31 10:56:34 <smoku> arm
May 31 10:56:54 <smoku> to run it on meego qemu
May 31 10:57:21 <Stskeeps> well, come debug it in #meego-arm
May 31 10:57:22 <smoku> i think it may be an issue of mic package for Arch Linux
May 31 10:58:07 <Stskeeps> might be
May 31 10:58:08 <smoku> I will once I get back to it :)
May 31 10:58:12 <Stskeeps> i use fedora chroot as a basis
May 31 11:00:35 <smoku> I would rather fix the port rather than workaround with chroot
May 31 11:00:40 <Stskeeps> yeah
May 31 11:03:17 <pupnik> some of those threads on forum are disheartening
May 31 12:49:24 <jozefk> can i install meego on nokia n95 8gb?
May 31 12:50:02 <suihkulokki> no
May 31 12:50:54 <jozefk> it's only for netbooks?
May 31 12:51:23 <spide> you can install the meego core to n900 but it is not much of an experience.
May 31 12:52:47 <jozefk> it's only good for netbooks I think
May 31 12:52:55 <spide> for now.
May 31 12:53:34 <spide> meego with UI for n900 will be released later.
May 31 12:53:41 <jozefk> it's still new OS it seems
May 31 12:54:28 <jozefk> n900 is coming with maemo by defualt I think. it is also some kind of linux
May 31 12:54:57 <spide> you are correct.
May 31 12:55:54 <jozefk> but maemo is not listed on distrowatch.com
May 31 12:56:37 <jozefk> meego and moblin are there. meego is based on moblin
May 31 12:57:05 <spide> meego is supposed to be moblin + maemo merged as one.
May 31 12:57:48 <jozefk> sounds good
May 31 12:59:06 <timeless_mbp> sounds complicated :)
May 31 12:59:34 <timeless_mbp> fwiw, the n95 was capable of running an older version of maemo
May 31 12:59:53 <timeless_mbp> but the reason you can't run <whatever> on your n95 is that to do it you need a signing certificate for the bootloader and friends
May 31 12:59:57 <pupnik> can i get that timeless_mbp ?
May 31 12:59:58 <timeless_mbp> and nokia doesn't distribute those
May 31 13:00:01 <timeless_mbp> pupnik: no
May 31 13:00:07 <timeless_mbp> well, get a job at nokia :)
May 31 13:00:25 <jozefk> or buy n900
May 31 13:00:37 <timeless_mbp> he already has one of those
May 31 13:00:51 <jozefk> n900 don't need certificates?
May 31 13:00:52 <spide> buying n900 doesnt get the maemo / meego on n95 :)
May 31 13:00:54 <pupnik> it would be so cute on a n97 mini!
May 31 13:01:33 <spide> well for n900 you get the "official" maemo / meego images.
May 31 13:01:36 <jozefk> spide, but it gets them on n900 :)
May 31 13:02:26 <sivang> pupnik: I actually want to run S60 on N900 :)
May 31 13:02:39 <sivang> pupnik: see my ML thread :)
May 31 13:02:39 <timeless_mbp> jozefk: kinda
May 31 13:02:41 <pupnik> going back to tampere in august i think timeless_mbp
May 31 13:02:52 * CosmoHill has just seen the indy 500 crash :/
May 31 13:02:57 <timeless_mbp> you can generally flash most parts of the system w/ whatever you like
May 31 13:03:03 <timeless_mbp> that excludes the cellmo module
May 31 13:03:10 <sivang> timeless_mbp: ah, so no calls
May 31 13:03:17 <sivang> timeless_mbp: and that is the exact reason why I wanted it
May 31 13:03:19 <timeless_mbp> which can only be upgraded to a newer signed software
May 31 13:03:26 <timeless_mbp> sivang: which?
May 31 13:03:40 <sivang> timeless_mbp: to have the lighter S60 on the N900
May 31 13:03:54 * timeless_mbp is terribly confused
May 31 13:03:54 <sivang> timeless_mbp: although after reboot calls reciving and making is snappy
May 31 13:05:52 <jozefk> maemo is open source or not?
May 31 13:06:12 <sivang> jozefk: it is, in its most part.
May 31 13:06:42 <sivang> timeless_mbp: I wanted to expriment with S60 on N900 and MeeGo on N8, since it has better CPU etc.
May 31 13:06:45 <sivang> timeless_mbp: as an example
May 31 13:06:52 <sivang> timeless_mbp: so the choice of device AND os.
May 31 13:07:04 <timeless_mbp> sivang: well
May 31 13:07:13 <timeless_mbp> in theory open symbian could probably be ported to the n900
May 31 13:07:19 <timeless_mbp> i certainly wouldn't waste my time w/ it
May 31 13:07:23 <sivang> but then I am alone
May 31 13:07:28 <sivang> e.g. no Nokia help
May 31 13:07:33 <sivang> since it's not their cut
May 31 13:08:24 <Termana> Look, I mean no offence to the Nokians that might be idling in the room that may work on Symbian at Nokia, but Symbian sucks and no one cares about it.
May 31 13:08:32 <Termana> No one WANTS that thing ported
May 31 13:09:54 <Stskeeps> but but it'll give us proper ovi maps ;p
May 31 13:10:05 <jozefk> what's worng with symbian on n95? it works fine I think
May 31 13:10:15 <jozefk> wrong*
May 31 13:11:44 <spide> i think most of the people have issues with s60 not symbian itself.
May 31 13:11:59 * CosmoHill has S60 :/
May 31 13:13:53 <spide> S60 is the UI framework that runs on Symbian OS.
May 31 13:14:45 <sivang> It is true that S60 is not perfect, but it is far from being useless and people do care for it. It just need some more polish and to adopt some more to the new hardware and utilize it
May 31 13:15:04 <sivang> I acan't wait to see S^3 on N8
May 31 13:15:15 <sivang> I'm sure it improved and solved many of the issues with S^2/S60
May 31 13:15:56 <clipartcat> sivang, are you referring that maemo/meego is useless?
May 31 13:16:13 <sivang> clipartcat: no, these aer differnt tools for differnt audiences and markets.
May 31 13:16:17 <sivang> Are
May 31 13:16:19 <sivang> *are
May 31 13:16:23 <sivang> latency is bad today
May 31 13:17:07 <clipartcat> we need local echo back!
May 31 13:17:10 <sivang> clipartcat: so if I need to choose a phon for my 20 yo sister, I give her S60, if I choose a phone for my CTO friend , I give him MeeGo/Maemo
May 31 13:17:20 <sivang> on N900 and future devices
May 31 13:17:25 <Termana> I reiterate, I don't think anyone really cares about Symbian. If you seriously believe Symbian is the platform that has future and the platform Nokia needs to put out in the high-end smartphone market...
May 31 13:17:41 <Termana> ...with the likes of the iPhone and the Android platform
May 31 13:17:51 <Termana> then I am truely sorry for you
May 31 13:17:53 <pupnik> sivang: i want an n8 just cause it is -gorgeous- hardware
May 31 13:17:54 <clipartcat> Termana, nokia sure cares as consider how much it gives time to meego vs. s60
May 31 13:18:17 <sivang> pupnik: I want it to poke inside S3 and learn about it with relation to the Nokia ahrdware.
May 31 13:18:22 <Termana> Even Nokia is clearing Symbian out of their high-end smartphones
May 31 13:18:30 <Termana> They do actually have sense
May 31 13:18:40 <pupnik> plus n8 will be a great portable media player
May 31 13:18:47 <clipartcat> Termana, well not in two years.
May 31 13:18:50 <sivang> timeless_mbp: Symbian is in the mid-range market, for multimedia savy non tech users.
May 31 13:19:01 <pupnik> bingo sivang
May 31 13:19:01 <sivang> pupnik: exactly
May 31 13:19:15 <sivang> if you need a mobiule compupter phone, you use maemo
May 31 13:19:18 <sivang> or MeeGO
May 31 13:19:23 <jozefk> meego is made by nokia?
May 31 13:19:25 <sivang> err latency!
May 31 13:19:29 <pupnik> alsol the screen is +so+ useful for taking good photos
May 31 13:19:29 <sivang> jozefk: and intel
May 31 13:19:44 <sivang> pupnik: indeed, and it has professional grade digicam
May 31 13:20:03 <sivang> there's even diffrent use cases in my opinion
May 31 13:20:13 <jozefk> intel and nokia are behind meego :) that must be something good then
May 31 13:20:18 <sivang> when I go to a confeerence our abroad for a long time, I take the tablet (n900)
May 31 13:20:25 <sivang> jozefk: it is.
May 31 13:20:28 * pupnik is excited for meego + amoled screen
May 31 13:20:44 <Stskeeps> sivang: i learnt that the hard way from dragging a laptop around all the time in hong kong, heh
May 31 13:20:52 <Termana> Symbian will never regain mindshare in the US
May 31 13:20:55 <sivang> if I go to a cycle or to a party, I take my N97 Mini
May 31 13:21:05 <Termana> and the US' biggest export is culture
May 31 13:21:16 <sivang> Termana: US is an odd market in its own regard. People there tend to prefer lock down aolutions
May 31 13:21:26 <pupnik> sivang: how do you feel about n97 mini keboard vs n900?
May 31 13:21:33 <sivang> pupnik: even a bit better
May 31 13:21:41 <sivang> pupnik: more resilient to miss press
May 31 13:21:50 <sivang> pupnik: and snappier in response int he softwware
May 31 13:21:50 <pupnik> hmm i like n900 feel though
May 31 13:21:55 <Termana> Symbian has a lot of marketshare in Europe (AFAIK) but I still don't think it has mindshare and I don't think it will get it
May 31 13:21:59 <sivang> right, it feels better for the kbd
May 31 13:22:11 <sivang> but the N97 mini is a bit better in seperating the keys.
May 31 13:22:20 <sivang> (e.g. plastic hardware layout)
May 31 13:22:33 <pupnik> yep.  finally had a chance to grope all the nokias
May 31 13:22:33 <sivang> Termana: in Asia as well
May 31 13:22:37 <sivang> Termana: and middle east :)
May 31 13:22:43 <jozefk> what about e90? can it be used with meego or it also only symbian?
May 31 13:22:54 <Termana> sivang, either way NO MINDSHARE.
May 31 13:23:16 <Termana> Maemo doesn't exactly have too much of it either. But hopefully MeeGo will be able to bring that forward
May 31 13:23:53 <sivang> Termana: I don't think there has ever been such a brave attempt to do something like Nokia had done with Maemo.
May 31 13:24:17 <Termana> sivang, expand on what you mean?
May 31 13:24:21 <sivang> Termana: it is like Netscape and mozilla for me
May 31 13:24:26 <Termana> Create an open phone?
May 31 13:24:34 <sivang> Termana: in that direction, yes
May 31 13:25:01 <sivang> Termana: AApple would have never done something like that and for me that says something about the company philosophy
May 31 13:25:04 <Termana> Android is completely open, Maemo is 57% closed - how do you make that open phone comparison?
May 31 13:25:05 <sivang> Termana: and conduct
May 31 13:25:50 <Termana> Google have made sure 3 phones were able to be used in a completely open manner - ADP1, ADP2 and the Nexus One
May 31 13:26:45 <Termana> Maemo is 57% closed. You can't just rebuild all of Maemo. Thats not an open phone, and an open OS.
May 31 13:27:38 <Termana> MeeGo changes the game a little bit. But Nokia still plans to use closed packages for differentiation in end products.
May 31 13:27:47 <smoku> Termana: "Android is completely open"???!! What a load of BS.  http://www.visionmobile.com/blog/2010/04/is-android-evil/
May 31 13:28:13 <Termana> smoku, I've already seen that blog, so I anticipated someone saying that
May 31 13:28:25 <Termana> smoku, That blog post is a load of bullshit :)
May 31 13:28:32 <Termana> Look at the comments for starters
May 31 13:28:42 * saft agrees
May 31 13:29:01 <smoku> Android is no more open than Maemo. Google uses the same tricks as Nokia in Maemo.
May 31 13:29:22 <Termana> smoku, WRONG. You can COMPLETELY recompile Android and still have everything you originally had
May 31 13:29:29 <Termana> You absolutely CANNOT do this with Maemo
May 31 13:29:33 <smoku> Termana: like GMail app?
May 31 13:29:51 <smoku> or store app
May 31 13:29:59 <Termana> smoku, we are talking the core OS here. But if you want to get into the apps - you CAN still use those apps
May 31 13:30:31 <smoku> Termana: keeping core OS, what exactly you cannot compile in Maemo?
May 31 13:30:38 <sivang> Termana: the same in Maemo
May 31 13:30:54 <sivang> Termana: and Nokia opened that to community particiaption (apps and more) very very early.
May 31 13:31:06 <sivang> released the platform while it is known it is still not perfect.
May 31 13:31:10 <sivang> that's brave.
May 31 13:31:56 <Termana> It isn't the same I'm afraid. You cannot even charge your battery without using closed source software.
May 31 13:32:29 <smoku> that's not core OS
May 31 13:32:44 <Termana> How is that not to do with the core OS, and retaining all the features
May 31 13:33:16 <Termana> Also, if you try and recompile Maemo, I think you'll have a hard time getting back any of the apps on top that are closed
May 31 13:33:33 <Termana> Whereas with Android, the apps can just be reinstalled
May 31 13:34:28 <smoku> Mer project recompiled all open Maemo parts and have a functional system. Moebian project is integrating Maemo proprietary apps in plain Debian ARM system with success.
May 31 13:35:04 <Stskeeps> success?
May 31 13:35:06 <Stskeeps> :P
May 31 13:35:17 <Termana> smoku, BUT neither are full recompiles of the Maemo core OS plus the proprietary bits placed back on
May 31 13:35:29 <smoku> yup. It's not joe-user ready, but it works.
May 31 13:35:34 <Termana> bits in Maemos case are apps and packages of the core OS
May 31 13:35:42 <smoku> Termana: same for Android.
May 31 13:35:45 <Termana> bits in the case of Android is just the apps
May 31 13:36:07 <Termana> smoku, NO its not the same for Android - for Android it is just the apps.
May 31 13:36:24 <smoku> for Maemo it's just the apps too
May 31 13:37:05 <PolarFox> Meego is pretty... pretty little thing... Mmmm... :)
May 31 13:37:20 <jadams> has anyone run into and fixed the "INIT: Id "x" respawning too fast: disabled for 5 minutes" bug?  I've seen it reported a few times after a cursory google search, but found no solutions
May 31 13:37:56 <sivang> smoku: is that a community project? (Moebian)
May 31 13:38:05 <sivang> smoku: how do they get access to the prop. stuff?
May 31 13:38:35 <smoku> sivang: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/moebian/
May 31 13:39:49 <Termana> Just browsing http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/maemo.org/openness/pr1.1/
May 31 13:40:25 <Termana> The telephony stack is completely closed in Maemo, but I guess you could argue that its replaceable with ofono, whatever.
May 31 13:41:16 <Termana> The browser UI is closed. Just as a reference, the Android browser IS open
May 31 13:42:29 * timeless_mbp shrugs
May 31 13:42:34 <timeless_mbp> the browser ui was open at times
May 31 13:42:40 <Termana> Looks like there is some of the multimedia framework closed off
May 31 13:42:46 <timeless_mbp> we didn't really get patches from the community
May 31 13:42:54 <timeless_mbp> even when i explained to people how to write them
May 31 13:43:03 <sivang> timeless_mbp: you did not explain that to me! :)
May 31 13:43:10 <sivang> timeless_mbp: or at least, I wasn't there when it was open
May 31 13:43:27 <timeless_mbp> sivang: the sources for some chinook or diablo version are still around somewhere
May 31 13:43:32 <Termana> timeless_mbp, OH I see, so its ok to close off packages if your not receiving patches from the community?
May 31 13:43:49 <timeless_mbp> Termana: oh, go to ****
May 31 13:43:56 <clipartcat> timeless_mbp, well that's a good reason to close it.
May 31 13:44:03 <timeless_mbp> being accusatory will not get you anywhere useful
May 31 13:44:20 <timeless_mbp> if you want to be an *** then you shouldn't expect positive responses
May 31 13:44:26 <timeless_mbp> in general, engineers want to be on your side
May 31 13:44:30 <Termana> Now hold on a minute, I'm just asking you to clear up what you said
May 31 13:44:31 <timeless_mbp> but if you piss *us* off
May 31 13:44:31 * sp3000 wants to be a star!
May 31 13:44:40 <timeless_mbp> forget about anyone supporting you against the managers
May 31 13:44:50 <timeless_mbp> sp3000: i want food
May 31 13:44:52 <Termana> I'm asking if thats the reason it was found acceptable to close the package off
May 31 13:44:55 <timeless_mbp> i missed dinner yesterday
May 31 13:45:02 <timeless_mbp> Termana: it wasn't the reason
May 31 13:45:05 <sp3000> it's early, or late
May 31 13:45:10 <timeless_mbp> but it is a reason that i'm less interested or fighting
May 31 13:45:30 <timeless_mbp> the browser ui from fremantle is a dead end
May 31 13:45:41 <timeless_mbp> it's also entirely uninteresting
May 31 13:45:49 <timeless_mbp> please note that if we were to open source it today
May 31 13:45:54 <timeless_mbp> and people then provided patches to it
May 31 13:45:56 <timeless_mbp> and we ignored them
May 31 13:46:05 <timeless_mbp> we'd be trashed for tossing junk code at the community
May 31 13:46:09 <timeless_mbp> and asking them to maintain it
May 31 13:46:16 <timeless_mbp> that's not a winning proposition
May 31 13:46:34 <timeless_mbp> there is a general sense that one shouldn't open source code w/o accepting an obligation to maintain it
May 31 13:46:42 <timeless_mbp> doing otherwise engenders very negative feelings
May 31 13:46:58 <timeless_mbp> i'll take counter arguments on that point now
May 31 13:47:01 <timeless_mbp> you have 5 minutes.
May 31 13:47:08 <Termana> Fine, but shouldn't it have been open from the start?
May 31 13:47:08 <clipartcat> timeless_mbp, god bless that there is no junk code @ nokia.
May 31 13:47:31 <timeless_mbp> clipartcat: thankfully i'm not currently responsible for any such code
May 31 13:47:41 <timeless_mbp> i got in trouble the last time management forced us to make a contribution
May 31 13:47:50 <timeless_mbp> i'm really not interested in a repeat
May 31 13:47:51 <clipartcat> i've heard horror stories of people parsing timestamps with regular expressions <3
May 31 13:48:08 <timeless_mbp> that sounds better than some of the code that extended the browser pre 1.2
May 31 13:48:17 <timeless_mbp> parsing xml files one character at a time
May 31 13:48:21 <sivang> clipartcat: oh dear
May 31 13:48:25 <sivang> timeless_mbp: oh DEAR
May 31 13:48:33 <sivang> timeless_mbp: XUL content?
May 31 13:48:38 <timeless_mbp> sivang: no, this was an addon
May 31 13:48:42 <sivang> ah
May 31 13:48:43 <timeless_mbp> not written by the browser team
May 31 13:48:45 <sivang> geez
May 31 13:48:55 <timeless_mbp> i'm not saying the browser team code is great
May 31 13:48:58 <timeless_mbp> but...
May 31 13:49:09 <timeless_mbp> by comparison, our code was saintly and leak free!
May 31 13:49:16 <pupnik> :)
May 31 13:49:26 <timeless_mbp> (this is the same code which was among the reasons 1.2 was delayed
May 31 13:49:42 <timeless_mbp> it was the code which caused people to complain that the browser was too stable and was hurting the system
May 31 13:49:52 <timeless_mbp> because the code was slowly leaking
May 31 13:49:59 <timeless_mbp> which isn't a problem if the browser crashes regularly)
May 31 13:50:16 <timeless_mbp> anyway, enough about that code
May 31 13:50:22 <timeless_mbp> it's best left forgotten
May 31 13:50:54 * timeless_mbp grumbles
May 31 13:50:58 <timeless_mbp> parsing sqlite3.c is painful
May 31 13:51:08 <timeless_mbp> the file is >2mb
May 31 13:51:52 <timeless_mbp> (111k lines)
May 31 13:51:56 <sivang> In timeless_mbp true
May 31 13:52:03 <sivang> hmm,
May 31 13:52:10 <sivang> wrong language and console :)
May 31 13:52:17 <timeless_mbp> heh
May 31 13:52:23 <timeless_mbp> sadly there are a couple of copies of that file in this repo
May 31 13:52:50 <timeless_mbp> sp3000: anyway… i've gotten genxref to think about things in a merge-able manner :)
May 31 13:52:50 <sivang> timeless_mbp: we'll make it all better with MeeGo, there's chromium to maintain as well ;)
May 31 13:53:36 <timeless_mbp> sivang: thankfully not in this iteration of the index
May 31 13:54:36 <Termana> My point still stands you cannot piece together anything that will be exactly the same as Maemo. It is completely possible to do so for Android. To go back to the original point, yes Maemo and Nokia have done some good things for the future of open phones.
May 31 13:55:33 * timeless_mbp ponders
May 31 13:55:45 <timeless_mbp> iirc you couldn't use the android store if you pieced together your own pone
May 31 13:55:51 <timeless_mbp> s/pone/phone/
May 31 13:55:51 <infobot> timeless_mbp meant: iirc you couldn't use the android store if you pieced together your own phone
May 31 13:55:55 <sivang> Termana: you mean ground breaking things, that you'd see android and friend projects will use.
May 31 13:55:57 <timeless_mbp> maybe google changed that
May 31 13:55:58 <sivang> :)
May 31 13:56:07 <sivang> timeless_mbp: due to signing right?
May 31 13:56:17 <timeless_mbp> sivang: implementation detail
May 31 13:56:18 * timeless_mbp shrugs
May 31 13:56:28 <timeless_mbp> eCouldntCareLess
May 31 13:56:39 * sivang likes the fact installing stuff on MeeGo/Maemo is  amtter of download an rpm/deb and installing it just on a regular desktop system.
May 31 13:56:44 <sivang> no signing no nothing.
May 31 13:57:08 <sivang> and there are a couple of apps that are from the OVI store (actually quite a few) that are shipped that way.
May 31 13:57:20 <sivang> timeless_mbp: heheh
May 31 13:57:37 <Termana> You can use the store on your own phone
May 31 13:57:56 <Termana> Theres no technical limitation, there is a licensing limitation however
May 31 13:58:28 <timeless_mbp> there was certainly a time when dev phones in dev mode could not use the store
May 31 13:58:42 <timeless_mbp> because google didn't want people to buy a product, copy it, "return it", and copy it back
May 31 13:59:06 <timeless_mbp> but i don't really care
May 31 13:59:16 <timeless_mbp> yes google has made an interesting platform
May 31 13:59:28 <timeless_mbp> but if you want to talk about #android, might i suggest #android or @twitter ?
May 31 13:59:31 <sivang> does not use Java?
May 31 13:59:35 <timeless_mbp> this is #meego
May 31 13:59:42 <sivang> timeless_mbp++
May 31 13:59:53 <timeless_mbp> complaining about nokia's historical gaffs is as offtopic as complaining about google's
May 31 14:00:04 <timeless_mbp> all that should matter here is what you're doing to help meego
May 31 14:00:12 <timeless_mbp> i'm currently building an xref for meego.com
May 31 14:00:15 <timeless_mbp> what are you doing today?
May 31 14:01:15 <clipartcat> coding with erlang and nothing for meego!
May 31 14:01:21 <Termana> Thats they way you change the subject so you stop looking like a fool. Tell the room its off-topic and act like you never discuss anything "off-topic".
May 31 14:02:20 <sivang> Termana: may I offer some slides?
May 31 14:02:23 <sivang> Termana: http://www.imaworld.org/?CategoryID=692
May 31 14:02:31 <timeless_mbp> Termana: complaining about nokia's open sourcing or lack of open sourcing a component for maemo is offtopic
May 31 14:02:36 <sivang> Termana: maybe some questions will be answered or some nice info to consume
May 31 14:03:03 <Myrtti> meh. Be productive folks.
May 31 14:03:03 <timeless_mbp> management decided to be annoying and refused to let use continue to work on the browser ui in the open for fremantle
May 31 14:03:03 <w00t_> timeless_mbp: xref?
May 31 14:03:10 <timeless_mbp> w00t_: cross reference
May 31 14:03:15 <timeless_mbp> like mxr.maemo.org
May 31 14:03:19 <timeless_mbp> but in this case, mxr.moego.org
May 31 14:03:22 * w00t_ does not know of this, and goes to investigate
May 31 14:03:31 <timeless_mbp> w00t_: *sigh*
May 31 14:03:42 <timeless_mbp> iirc mxr.maemo.org's being in the #maemo irc topic for years
May 31 14:04:00 <w00t_> I don't usually see topics unless someone updates them or I actively request them
May 31 14:04:05 <w00t_> I *am* in like over 80 channels, so
May 31 14:04:10 <timeless_mbp> the meego one isn't topic'd yet because i haven't gotten my cname and i don't have a happy repo for meego
May 31 14:04:17 <w00t_> looks interesting though
May 31 14:07:55 <sp3000> timeless_mbp: that reminds me, mxr.maemo wasn't PR1.2'd yet last I looked
May 31 14:08:03 <sp3000> and it's been out for like several minutes!
May 31 14:08:19 <timeless_mbp> sp3000: heh
May 31 14:08:25 <timeless_mbp> yeah, i need to do that
May 31 14:08:33 <timeless_mbp> should we use swift or one of your boxes? :)
May 31 14:08:37 <LaSaRuX> hi
May 31 14:08:43 <Myrtti> *yawn*
May 31 14:08:49 <Myrtti> need moar coffee
May 31 14:09:14 <sp3000> timeless_mbp: gaaah! :)
May 31 14:32:23 <Mansson> I am confused. The 0.9 ARM code was available as meego_qemu_nand.img. The 1.0 only as a ".raw" file to be flashed on N900. How do I do if I want to run 1.0 for ARM in qemu?
May 31 14:33:55 <timeless_mbp> you want to use system qemu?
May 31 14:35:27 <Mansson> I just want to follow the instructions on http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_Qemu but get to 1.0 instead of 0.9.
May 31 14:39:14 <sivang> timeless_mbp: so if I flash 1.0 onto my N900, I just have a console after boot?
May 31 14:40:10 * timeless_mbp shrugs
May 31 14:40:14 * timeless_mbp wouldn't flash it
May 31 14:40:16 * sivang wiki's
May 31 14:40:20 <timeless_mbp> you're welcome to do so
May 31 14:40:28 <timeless_mbp> but i like having working phones
May 31 14:40:35 <timeless_mbp> so i can choose to ignore phone calls and meetings...
May 31 14:41:37 <sivang> timeless_mbp: hehe
May 31 14:41:54 <sivang> timeless_mbp: I wonder what happens now when you have it installed and there's a call, how do you answer?
May 31 14:42:10 <sivang> "Press ENTER to answer the call from 972-??-?????" :)
May 31 14:43:38 <Myrtti> yeah, I thought 1.0 was the netbook version
May 31 14:48:43 <Mansson> 1.0 for ARM did not quite work on N900, but It should be useful in qemu nevertheless. The 0.9 for ARM did only have yum - not zypper so it's a dead end.
May 31 14:49:41 <timeless_mbp> you can't install zypper w/ yum?
May 31 14:52:39 <sivang> zypper is how apt is called in MeeGo?
May 31 14:53:45 <timeless_mbp> sivang: roughly
May 31 14:53:51 <timeless_mbp> they're functionally similar
May 31 14:53:55 <timeless_mbp> but entirely unrelated
May 31 14:54:12 <timeless_mbp> apt-get/apt-cache/whatever are layers on top of dpkg-whatever
May 31 14:54:30 <timeless_mbp> yum is a layer on top of rpm
May 31 14:54:44 <timeless_mbp> zypper is a more advanced thing that i believe just layers above rpm
May 31 14:55:04 <sivang> ah, like Gustavo Nymer's package manager sort of thing?
May 31 14:55:15 <sivang> like one interface, multiple backends?
May 31 14:55:16 <timeless_mbp> google :)
May 31 14:55:20 <timeless_mbp> no
May 31 14:55:20 * sivang googles :)
May 31 14:55:25 <sivang> SMART
May 31 14:55:29 <sivang> finally I recalled the name
May 31 14:55:33 <timeless_mbp> meego is using rpm as its package system instead of deb
May 31 14:55:37 <sivang> I know
May 31 14:55:41 <sivang> (that)
May 31 14:55:46 <timeless_mbp> but the ideas behind how one does this stuff are roughly the same
May 31 14:55:56 * sivang googles.
May 31 14:58:03 <sivang> forums kill me
May 31 14:58:08 <sivang> why can't we just use MLs?
May 31 14:58:29 <sivang> so much overhead using a browser to communicate through a forum software.
May 31 14:58:53 <sivang> and some forum software with tons of js bring some mobile browsers down...
May 31 15:00:43 <pinchartl> sivang: I've always preferred MLs over forums too
May 31 15:01:32 <sivang> but I guess there's a group of users more comfortable with forums than with MLs.
May 31 15:01:39 <sivang> a rather large group :)
May 31 15:02:42 <lbt> forums are for users
May 31 15:02:51 <gour> how many of those are devs...that is the question
May 31 15:03:36 <pinchartl> lbt: why are users assumed not to be able to use e-mail ? :-)
May 31 15:03:41 <sivang> lbt: I see, when you sent me to look over the forum the other day on the ML thread, I stood still and lost my way through the tangling forum threads :)
May 31 15:03:58 * sivang is too old
May 31 15:04:19 <sivang> I've been using mutt not until recently when gmail got big.
May 31 15:04:29 <sivang> s/not/just/
May 31 15:04:29 <infobot> sivang meant: I've been using mutt just until recently when gmail got big.
May 31 15:05:02 <gour> then it means that /me is too old using gmane to follow MLs
May 31 15:06:51 <sivang> gour: heh
May 31 15:07:08 <sivang> gmane is nice if you are tired of choosing the month of the thread
May 31 15:09:27 * gour uses gmane for 99.9 MLs
May 31 15:09:49 <gour> (using claws as mailer)
May 31 15:16:41 <sivang> gour: you use a gmane plugin?
May 31 15:17:07 <gour> sivang: no. claws can handle nntp
May 31 15:17:22 * gour uses rss plugin
May 31 15:17:24 <Yoshi47> anyone here running meego 1.0 on a dell mini 12?
May 31 15:20:40 <CosmoHill> Inspiron Mini 1012 ?
May 31 15:23:46 <CosmoHill> Yoshi47: Inspiron Mini 1012 ?
May 31 15:23:56 <Yoshi47> CosmoHill, yes
May 31 15:24:07 <CosmoHill> it's listed as a supported device
May 31 15:24:26 <Yoshi47> i know, but it can't seem to find my frame buffer
May 31 15:36:49 <arjan> Yoshi47: mini 12?
May 31 15:36:51 * arjan looks up
May 31 15:36:59 <Yoshi47> arjan, yes
May 31 15:37:08 <Yoshi47> can't find any bugs
May 31 15:37:16 <Yoshi47> or others have this problem
May 31 15:37:28 <arjan> 12.1 does for sure not work (chipset with no linux support)
May 31 15:37:56 <arjan> if your atom cpu starts with a Z it's not supported
May 31 15:38:08 <arjan> (since it then has the menlow chipset with gma500 graphics )
May 31 15:39:44 <Yoshi47> i have had multiple linuxes on it
May 31 15:39:51 <Yoshi47> xubunut
May 31 15:39:53 <Yoshi47> gentoo
May 31 15:40:02 <Yoshi47> ubuntu netbook remix
May 31 15:40:12 <arjan> what graphics does it have?
May 31 15:40:16 <Yoshi47> poulsbo
May 31 15:40:26 <arjan> menlow/gma500 ;(
May 31 15:40:35 <arjan> yeah that's not supported by the hw vendor on linux ;-(
May 31 15:40:43 <arjan> I wish I had a better answer
May 31 15:40:49 <arjan> (especially as someone working for said hw vendor)
May 31 15:41:01 <Yoshi47> then why can i get other linux to work
May 31 15:41:11 <arjan> vesa mode
May 31 15:41:16 <LaSaRuX> uhm
May 31 15:41:19 <arjan> but if you really need 3d..
May 31 15:41:28 <LaSaRuX> but there are drivers...
May 31 15:41:30 <arjan> there was a driver at some piont for older linux as well
May 31 15:41:40 <arjan> but it's unmaintained and not provided for newer kernel/X
May 31 15:41:41 <Yoshi47> arjan, why do they say mini 12 is supported then?
May 31 15:41:45 <arjan> we do ?
May 31 15:41:53 <Yoshi47> you do
May 31 15:41:55 <Yoshi47> if your a dev
May 31 15:41:57 <Yoshi47> yes
May 31 15:41:59 <Yoshi47> its on the web page
May 31 15:42:05 <LaSaRuX> http://www.happyassassin.net/2009/05/13/native-poulsbo-gma-500-graphics-driver-for-fedora-10/
May 31 15:42:26 <arjan> Yoshi47: have the url?
May 31 15:42:33 <arjan> (the website is big ;l-)
May 31 15:42:53 <Yoshi47> http://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.0/meego-v1.0-netbooks
May 31 15:43:00 <Yoshi47> look at the supported hardware
May 31 15:43:20 <Yoshi47> never mind
May 31 15:43:22 <arjan> Inspiron Mini 1012
May 31 15:43:23 <Yoshi47> i have the 1210
May 31 15:43:25 <Yoshi47> not the 012
May 31 15:43:27 <Yoshi47> 1012*
May 31 15:43:29 <arjan> that's a Mini 10
May 31 15:43:30 <Yoshi47> well that sucks
May 31 15:43:43 <arjan> I'm sorry I wish I could support said hardware ;(
May 31 15:43:51 <arjan> (and trust me, we've fought about this internally)
May 31 15:44:22 <sivang> I've had issues with it on Uubuntu as well
May 31 15:44:38 <sivang> so I eventually got a GMA4500 based system
May 31 15:46:24 <Yoshi47> yes inorder for hardware accel to go you need to get the sources from dell and make a image for it
May 31 15:46:31 <Yoshi47> it was a pain, but i did get it too work
May 31 15:46:39 <Yoshi47> but then my hard drive clunked out
May 31 15:46:45 <Yoshi47> and now i need a ssd for it
May 31 15:46:49 <Yoshi47> then i want to sell it
May 31 15:47:58 <LaSaRuX> http://www.happyassassin.net/2009/05/13/native-poulsbo-gma-500-graphics-driver-for-fedora-10/#comment-817
May 31 15:48:00 <LaSaRuX> hey
May 31 15:48:03 <LaSaRuX> guys
May 31 15:48:08 <LaSaRuX> watch that
May 31 15:52:33 <gour> anyone tried qt port for android?
May 31 15:56:25 <koan> so I installed MeeGo 1.0 on my netbook, but I can't find the settings for 3G internet connections (I have a 3G USB dongle)
May 31 16:16:58 <renegaid> I just tried this yesterday. really buggy
May 31 16:17:18 <arjan> renegaid: can you be bothered to fire off an email with the bugs you find?
May 31 16:17:40 <arjan> or just say here which areas you consider buggy
May 31 16:18:43 <renegaid> the ui crashes and the software update does not work
May 31 16:19:04 <renegaid> how come there is no open office
May 31 16:19:30 <tyler_> Can't you add the repository manually?
May 31 16:19:44 <tyler_> (I don't really know, I haven't tried the OS yet)
May 31 16:19:50 <arjan> we don't have open office since openoffice is pretty bad for a small screen
May 31 16:19:54 <arjan> many dialogs don't fit and such
May 31 16:20:05 <tyler_> It's also pretty resource intensive.
May 31 16:20:11 <arjan> well that too yes
May 31 16:22:42 <renegaid> I use MS office on my eeepc no issues
May 31 16:22:56 <CosmoHill> can you use youtube without issues?
May 31 16:23:03 <renegaid> yea
May 31 16:23:09 <CosmoHill> damn you -.-
May 31 16:23:17 <tyler_> arjan: Do you know if the MeeGo team plans to officially support proprietary drivers (Nvidia)?
May 31 16:23:52 <renegaid> CosmoHill: maybe you have an old eeepc
May 31 16:23:59 <spide> i was trying to get wvdial to work but run into troubles while compiling wvstreams.
May 31 16:24:01 <CosmoHill> I have a high end laptop
May 31 16:24:04 <CosmoHill> it's just old :(
May 31 16:24:05 <renegaid> do you problems with youtube
May 31 16:24:23 <CosmoHill> sometimes I can use 480p
May 31 16:24:23 <arjan> tyler_: we're not.
May 31 16:24:24 <spide> it is saying that openssl is missing even when it is installed.
May 31 16:24:26 <renegaid> oh. I thought meego was only for atom
May 31 16:24:32 <arjan> tyler_: but we may look at nouveau for 1.1
May 31 16:24:38 <CosmoHill> yay
May 31 16:25:06 <CosmoHill> arjan: is it possible to install nvidia drivers from the command line if you boot meego into init 3?
May 31 16:25:24 <arjan> I don't know.
May 31 16:25:55 <tyler_> arjan: I was just wondering because I have an Asus N10 (you can switch between discrete and int. graphics).
May 31 16:26:10 <arjan> that switching isn't very well supported by X yet
May 31 16:26:22 <arjan> read dave airlie's blog; he is making some progress, but only some
May 31 16:27:09 <CosmoHill> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Nzk1NQ
May 31 16:27:36 <arjan> yeap that
May 31 16:27:41 <arjan> it still involves an X restart
May 31 16:27:46 <arjan> but it's better than nothing :)
May 31 16:27:50 <arjan> and a good step forwar
May 31 16:27:50 <arjan> d
May 31 16:28:13 <CosmoHill> does it invole logging out?
May 31 16:28:39 <tyler_> Well, I wasn't planning on using the switch but it would be nice to have a netbook OS that can use the proprietary graphics.
May 31 16:28:45 <CosmoHill> ah yes it does
May 31 16:29:12 <arjan> tyler_: why is it nice to use proprietary graphics??
May 31 16:29:22 <arjan> why not use Windows.. that's all proprietary ;)
May 31 16:29:28 <CosmoHill> later in the week I might try and install meego onto my laptop and then install drivers
May 31 16:29:49 <CosmoHill> (my laptop being nvidia)
May 31 16:29:51 <tyler_> Because the open source driver stack sucks and doesn't work?
May 31 16:30:04 <tyler_> I would like to actually, play games, on my netbook.
May 31 16:31:19 <CosmoHill> tyler_: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nouveau_gallium3d_first&num=2
May 31 16:31:30 <CosmoHill> i think it could be like with the google brower
May 31 16:31:40 <CosmoHill> you have nouveau for the OSS meego version
May 31 16:31:49 <CosmoHill> and the nvidia ones for the EULA like you have with chrome
May 31 16:32:30 <spide> how should a phone modem show up in meego or are they even supported / do I need some other sw as well?
May 31 16:32:47 <arjan> spide: it's supposed to show up as 3G in the network panel
May 31 16:32:52 <arjan> if it does not that's a connman bug.
May 31 16:33:52 <spide> connected my 3150xm via usb and i see nothing.
May 31 16:34:03 <sx0n|home> gallium is quite interesting: http://zrusin.blogspot.com/2010/04/geometry-processing-love-story.html
May 31 16:34:15 <spide> also tried if iwconfig or ifconfig would tell anything.
May 31 16:35:08 <tyler_> It's also five times slower then the proprietary drivers provided by Nvidia.
May 31 16:35:44 <spide> maybe my trusty e90 would do better.
May 31 16:36:51 <CosmoHill> tyler_: hmm
May 31 16:37:00 <CosmoHill> you need drivers to use meego
May 31 16:37:17 <CosmoHill> if meego came with nouveau you could use meego
May 31 16:37:21 <spide> forget it. don't have correct usb cable for that one.
May 31 16:37:33 <tyler_> I want to play games.
May 31 16:37:36 <tyler_> 3D games.
May 31 16:37:48 <CosmoHill> if you wanted better performace you could then go onto nvidia.co.uk and get the propriotory drivers
May 31 16:38:21 <tyler_> My question was that if there was going to be official support for it though.
May 31 16:38:44 <arjan> tyler_: and the answer so far is no.
May 31 16:38:59 <arjan> the tsg has said they do not want to support binary kernel drivers
May 31 16:39:02 <tyler_> Which is a bummer.
May 31 16:39:05 <CosmoHill> as it's been pointed out to me it's too legally "iffy" to ship meego with propriety nvidia drivers
May 31 16:39:24 <arjan> tyler_: the linux foundation has a very clear position on binary kernel drivers
May 31 16:39:29 <arjan> I suggest you read it ;-)
May 31 16:39:38 <CosmoHill> so my new point is that nouveau drivers are better than nothing
May 31 16:39:39 <arjan> the LF thinks they're very harmful to linux
May 31 16:40:14 <hylix_> again all
May 31 16:40:59 <hylix_> do you know if there is a way to have the same interface that meego ?
May 31 16:41:27 <tyler_> arjan: Thanks for the condescending and demeaning tone. I meant a support similar to how Ubuntu helps users download and install proprietary drivers.
May 31 16:42:18 <smoku> tyler_: it's not a job of meego to deliver proprietary software. it's a job of tha manufacturer. In windows world whan you buy a hardware, you get the drivers CD and noone complains...
May 31 16:42:20 <CosmoHill> tyler_: you mean some kinda of script that gets the drivers from nvidia and install them for you
May 31 16:42:25 * gour did some research about the prospect of using qt port for android for possible development for android OS...but meego still looks as better option
May 31 16:43:11 <arjan> tyler_: are you volunteering to do the work for that? sounds like a good thing to start a wiki about, and once the wiki is mature, automated it somehow
May 31 16:43:32 <arjan> like slaine is doing for broadcom wifi
May 31 16:43:36 <tyler_> And it's not the job of Canonical to provide help for users to have a better experience if the own a nvidia card. They do it anyway.
May 31 16:44:21 <tyler_> CosmoHill: Yes, like that.
May 31 16:44:43 <CosmoHill> ah yes about the wiki
May 31 16:44:59 <CosmoHill> is it possible to change the default for the search bar from "go to" to "search"
May 31 16:45:06 <smoku> tyler_: I'm sure once Nvidia joins Meego foundation, we'll have their drivers as integraded as Intel ones. :)
May 31 16:45:15 <CosmoHill> that way it would search the wiki instead of telling you you don't have permission to edit it
May 31 16:45:27 <tyler_> arjan: I'm not on the MeeGo team. I was just asking if there was going to be an 'easy' way to install proprietary drivers.
May 31 16:45:46 <CosmoHill> tyler_: I'll have a play and see if i can make a shell script for meego
May 31 16:45:55 <CosmoHill> (but anyone else is free to do it instead)
May 31 16:45:57 <gour> smoku: then it means that ati folks is doomed...
May 31 16:46:05 <arjan> technically you asked if we were going to officially support the prop. drivers.
May 31 16:46:32 <smoku> gour: they can join too :) AFAIK there's no restrictions
May 31 16:47:12 <gour> smoku: well, all i'd like to have (for development) is to be able to run meego under vbox as i did with moblin
May 31 16:47:46 <hylix_> noone has an idea ?
May 31 16:48:06 <tyler_> CosmoHill: Thanks.
May 31 16:48:37 <CosmoHill> I'm not making any promises tho
May 31 16:48:58 <tyler_> CosmoHill: Haha, I'm thanking you for the offer really.
May 31 16:49:03 <CosmoHill> :)
May 31 16:49:19 <tyler_> I could probably install it manually... it would just be a pain.
May 31 16:49:52 <CosmoHill> arjan: what did moblin come with?
May 31 16:50:06 <CosmoHill> was it just vesa?
May 31 16:50:34 <arjan> CosmoHill: moblin has intel graphics and vesa
May 31 16:50:42 <arjan> same deal basically
May 31 16:50:48 <arjan> all open graphics drivers that work with the UI
May 31 16:51:00 <CosmoHill> cos I could get moblin to boot on my laptop
May 31 16:51:05 <arjan> (the UI has pretty high demands for graphics driver features/quality... for the intel driver we found and fixed many many issues)
May 31 16:52:51 <CosmoHill> I wouldn't mind a slow interface as long as it allowed me to get the drivers
May 31 16:53:14 <CosmoHill> i don't want it to be like installing the graphics drivers on a computer using a serial cable
May 31 16:54:45 <tyler_> What I'm going to have to do is install Fedora on one partition for the games and MeeGo on the second partition for other stuff.
May 31 16:55:11 <CosmoHill> I wonder if I have enough free space on my hard drive
May 31 16:55:32 <CosmoHill> I might have to replace RHEL6 but I don't want too cos that took me a day to boot
May 31 17:01:45 <CosmoHill> did anyone in here download the meego image from cross-lfs.org/~cosmo ?
May 31 17:02:08 <CosmoHill> If you did can you let me know if it worked?
May 31 17:13:25 <tyler_> arjan: Is there going to better codec support for MeeGo then there was for Moblin? I.e, will there be a user friendly way to install codecs to play mp3 files and watch DVDs?
May 31 17:13:48 <arjan> we're trying to see how to do this legally
May 31 17:14:03 <CosmoHill> i think slaine was doing something about VLC for meego
May 31 17:14:06 <arjan> since someone needs to pay the per-unit fee, we need to figure out how this all works
May 31 17:14:50 <RST38h> arjan: separate package that a user would download later
May 31 17:15:03 <tyler_> I don't know how feasible this is, but what about a dedicated optional repository that is added by the user?
May 31 17:15:16 <tyler_> And a how-to guide that pops up on install?
May 31 17:15:41 <CosmoHill> post-install would be better
May 31 17:15:51 <CosmoHill> a webpage that opens first boot?
May 31 17:15:54 <tyler_> Not only better, but also legal.
May 31 17:16:02 <tyler_> Yeah, something like that.
May 31 17:16:08 <arjan> tyler_: if we help it too much its' likely no longer legal
May 31 17:16:22 <arjan> "assisting with a crime" is also a problem usually ;)
May 31 17:16:36 <arjan> rather just do it correctly
May 31 17:16:47 <arjan> (since both LF and Intel are US companies this matters anyway)
May 31 17:16:56 <CosmoHill> "It was nokia"
May 31 17:17:22 <arjan> (oh and the assumption that software patents don't matter for europe is ... dubious at best ;-)
May 31 17:19:06 <tyler_> I was just thinking that something similar to Medibuntu for Ubuntu would be helpful until legal issues were sorted out.
May 31 17:19:12 * CosmoHill is reading about libCSS
May 31 17:19:31 <CosmoHill> "Many GNU/Linux distributions do not contain libdvdcss due to fears of running afoul of DMCA-style laws, however they may provide the tools to let the user install it themselves."
May 31 17:19:46 <CosmoHill> tyler_: we seem to be on the same track :p
May 31 17:20:01 * arjan tries to find how to go from a QImage to a QGraphicsLayoutItem
May 31 17:21:28 <CosmoHill> I swear i read on wikipedia that VLC was illegal in France because of libdvdcss :/
May 31 17:22:01 <tyler_> Does anyone know how the Linux Mint team gets away with packaging it with their distro?
May 31 17:22:03 <w00t_> arjan: not sure what QGLI is, but if you're trying to render a QImage in a QGraphicsView, you'd want QGraphicsItem (or, depending on your needs, QGraphicsWidget)
May 31 17:22:10 <w00t_> arjan: #qt is often a help, too
May 31 17:22:12 <koupsaa> vlc illegal in france? i think not
May 31 17:22:21 <thiago> QGLI is one of the two base-classes of QGraphicsWidget
May 31 17:22:30 * arjan looks up QGrpahicsItem
May 31 17:22:32 <thiago> you want a widget that displays images
May 31 17:22:52 <thiago> there's QGraphicsPixmapItem, but it's not a layout item
May 31 17:23:26 <CosmoHill> hey thiago
May 31 17:23:31 <thiago> hi cosmo
May 31 17:23:40 <CosmoHill> not a bank hoilday for you then?
May 31 17:23:45 <thiago> no
May 31 17:23:50 <thiago> finally a Monday that isn't a public holiday
May 31 17:23:59 <arjan> ah via QGraphicsPixmapItem
May 31 17:24:12 * arjan already has a layout thing
May 31 17:24:13 <thiago> on the widget model, you use QLabel to display images
May 31 17:24:16 <arjan> just need to plump pictures
May 31 17:24:44 <TSCHAKeee2> it's memorial day here.
May 31 17:24:48 <arjan> a label of pictures? ok ;)
May 31 17:25:00 <thiago> QLabel displays images too :-)
May 31 17:25:01 <w00t_> QLabel has a setPixmap method
May 31 17:25:08 <thiago> TSCHAKeee2: what are you memorising today?
May 31 17:25:15 * TSCHAKeee2 laughs
May 31 17:25:32 <TSCHAKeee2> good question :P
May 31 17:25:56 <thiago> our next public holiday is Christmas
May 31 17:26:29 <TSCHAKeee2> arjan: what are you coding?
May 31 17:27:06 <arjan> trying to make a simple touch app likea  remote control
May 31 17:27:13 <arjan> show a grid of pictures, and let the user click them
May 31 17:27:43 * thiago goes have a barbecue
May 31 17:27:59 <thiago> 7:30 pm, we've got another 2-3 hours of daylight
May 31 17:28:25 <CosmoHill> http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20100528/183038/ << cool, USB monitor
May 31 17:31:34 <tyler_> I'm off. Thanks CosmoHill for feedback and thanks arjan for the useful information.
May 31 17:31:40 <CosmoHill> cyas
May 31 17:31:51 <w00t_> thiago: enjoy
May 31 17:35:09 <arjan> ah sod it
May 31 17:35:12 * arjan sticks with text labels
May 31 17:39:41 <w00t_> arjan: if you want, I can give you a small example
May 31 17:39:53 <arjan> would be much appreciated
May 31 17:40:30 <w00t_> k, I'll see what I can do tonight.. got a mail address, though? I need to run off to make dinner and stuff for now
May 31 17:40:41 <w00t_> (also, it's probably good if you tell me exactly what you want :-P)
May 31 17:41:47 <arjan> arjan@linux.intel.com
May 31 17:42:13 <arjan> basically I have a grid layout in my Qgraphicsview
May 31 17:42:23 <arjan> and want to stick QImage pictures in a set of grid items
May 31 17:42:29 <w00t_> okay
May 31 17:42:32 <w00t_> should be possible
May 31 17:42:50 <arjan> which needs a QGraphicsLayoutItem compatible class
May 31 17:43:28 <arjan> don't kill yourself over it; I can always ask folks at work tomorrow
May 31 17:43:34 <w00t_> nah, it's np
May 31 17:43:35 <arjan> but if it's easy it's very appreciated
May 31 17:43:40 <w00t_> I need things to entertain myself :-)
May 31 17:45:16 <arjan> worst case  I need to subclass/etc
May 31 17:45:26 <arjan> but one would think that that would not be needed for just showing an image
May 31 17:48:31 <w00t_> from thinking about it and digging around a bit (I'm a relative newcomer to QGV), you will need to subclass
May 31 17:49:07 <w00t_> easiest route is QGraphicsWidget, alternative is multiple inheritance: QGraphicsLayoutItem and QGraphicsItem
May 31 17:49:29 <w00t_> QGV doesn't really offer a lot of advanced stuff, it's just the building blocks stuff gets built on
May 31 17:49:41 <w00t_> (somewhat unfortunately, since it seems a lot of reinventing the wheel gets done)
May 31 17:49:52 <w00t_> now, dinner.. i'll hack up an example when i get back
May 31 17:50:08 <CosmoHill> w00t_: enjoy
May 31 18:28:34 <Bughead> Hi all!
May 31 18:28:57 <Bughead> Any sucess in runing MeeGo inside VirtualBox?
May 31 18:29:44 <Bughead> It just stuck in the background ... after boot.
May 31 18:30:27 <Stskeeps> not yet, i think
May 31 18:31:52 <CosmoHill> meego requires 3D graphic acceleration that virtualbox is unable to support at this time
May 31 18:32:50 <Bughead> hmmm ...
May 31 18:33:46 <Bughead> It will not boot in my MacBook I guess ..
May 31 18:33:59 <Stskeeps> http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=202
May 31 18:34:47 <Bughead> Thank you Stskeeps. I will read the thread!
May 31 18:39:22 <maragato> what's the crash reporting tool being used by Meego?
May 31 18:39:25 <maragato> bug buddy?
May 31 18:42:49 <arjan> abrt
May 31 18:43:52 <maragato> arjan, thanks
May 31 18:48:47 <maragato> arjan, how is the crash information being stored? (I'm assuming the info is being send to a Meego database)
May 31 18:49:03 <arjan> it goes to a simple database
May 31 18:49:09 <arjan> primarily for getting statistics
May 31 18:49:15 <arjan> so we know which bugs are hit the most
May 31 18:49:23 <arjan> (so that we then fix those first)
May 31 18:50:51 <maragato> arjan, where's this db hosted? better yet, is the data freely available to anyone?
May 31 18:51:02 <arjan> it's on a meego server
May 31 18:51:10 <arjan> I don't think this data is freely available due to privacy issues
May 31 18:51:19 <arjan> but maybe the overview data can be, would need to check
May 31 18:52:10 <maragato> ok, just checking. I'm looking at how much we know about crashes happening in the wild.
May 31 18:52:59 <GeorgiusCz> Hello, I have a problem. I need to boot the rescue image, but according to http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd I should download the N900 kernel & rescue initrd, but I cannot find eiter. And I do not have flasher-3.5 so far. Can you help me, please, to obtain those ?
May 31 18:53:58 <Stskeeps> GeorgiusCz: ok, first off, what do you need the rescue image for n900 for?
May 31 18:54:32 <GeorgiusCz> N900 reported some database corruption in the contacts and I was stupid enough to reboot the device
May 31 18:54:55 <GeorgiusCz> Since it is not able to boot, recpectively it boots up to "hands shaking" and then reboots again
May 31 18:55:27 <GeorgiusCz> If there is a SIM present, it goes for "enter pin" screen, but it does not react and boots within a second or son
May 31 18:55:31 <Stskeeps> fair enough, hang on a second
May 31 18:55:48 <Stskeeps> will you help updating the documentation if i find you the right links?
May 31 18:55:53 <GeorgiusCz> If switched on with USB in, it mounts as a mass storage, but only /home/user/MyDocs
May 31 18:56:14 <GeorgiusCz> yes, I would be happy to help
May 31 18:57:18 <Stskeeps> http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/nokia-n900-rescue-initrd-0.1-1.3.armv7l.rpm , http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/kernel-n900-2.6.33.3-11.2.armv7l.rpm i believe
May 31 18:59:00 <Stskeeps> those should match
May 31 18:59:46 <GeorgiusCz> OK, I will firstr try them and then I will be updating the docs ... http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb as a flesher is OK ?
May 31 19:00:27 <Stskeeps> right
May 31 19:00:40 <Stskeeps> and remember you can just load the kernel+initrd, don't have to flash them
May 31 19:01:43 <GeorgiusCz> how do I do it ? I am just downloading flasher ...
May 31 19:03:16 <Stskeeps> ah, the wiki page says that pretty specifically
May 31 19:03:38 <GeorgiusCz> you mean sudo flasher-3.5 -k boot/<vmlinuz>-n900 -n boot/initrd.img -l -b"rootdelay=1 root=/dev/ram0" ?
May 31 19:03:47 <Stskeeps> right
May 31 19:04:12 <GeorgiusCz> OK, just last question, is it safe to launch it with SDHC card inside ?
May 31 19:04:37 <Stskeeps> yes
May 31 19:04:53 <GeorgiusCz> Thank you so far, I will be back after trying ...
May 31 19:05:01 <Stskeeps> unless you usb export and overwrite the sd obviously ;)
May 31 19:13:14 <GeorgiusCz> Stskeeps: I have not used RedHat for ages (last try RH 7.0) so I am not familiar with rpms. rpm2cpio nokia-n900-rescue-initrd-0.1-1.3.armv7l.rpm |cpio -vid vmlinuz-n900 does not do anythig
May 31 19:13:24 <GeorgiusCz> it claims :3293 blocks
May 31 19:13:35 <GeorgiusCz> and does not create any file
May 31 19:14:23 <GeorgiusCz> jimmac: greetings to western Bohemia from Prague !
May 31 19:17:42 <Stskeeps> GeorgiusCz: hmm? should generate boot/ for instance i think
May 31 19:18:07 <GeorgiusCz> it was my feeling as well
May 31 19:18:52 <Stskeeps> oh, wait, not cpio -vid vmlinuz-n900
May 31 19:18:57 <Stskeeps> just cpio -vid
May 31 19:21:00 <GeorgiusCz> cpio: ./usr/share/doc/nokia-n900-rescue-initrd-0.1/COPYING: Cannot open: Permission denied, otherwise seems ok so fat
May 31 19:21:01 <GeorgiusCz> far
May 31 19:21:33 <Stskeeps> you're not unpacking into your root filesystem, right? :P
May 31 19:21:59 <GeorgiusCz> nope, I am using Linux for 10 years now ;-)
May 31 19:25:45 <GeorgiusCz> Suitable USB device not found, waiting.
May 31 19:26:00 <GeorgiusCz> Then I connected the device, inserted the battery and ...
May 31 19:26:23 <GeorgiusCz> guess what, It was just mounted as a storage and the flasher did not do anything :-(
May 31 19:26:31 <Stskeeps> turn off n900 completely
May 31 19:26:37 <GeorgiusCz> it was
May 31 19:26:58 <Stskeeps> ok, battery out, start flasher, plug in usb cable in both ends, put in battery.
May 31 19:27:16 <GeorgiusCz> exactly what I did
May 31 19:27:18 <clipartcat> you need to press u
May 31 19:27:41 <GeorgiusCz> OH YES , I was using the wiki and it is not there !!
May 31 19:27:51 <GeorgiusCz> going to do second attempt
May 31 19:27:55 * Stskeeps has yet to need to use 'u', but hey :P
May 31 19:31:32 <GeorgiusCz> did not help
May 31 19:31:49 <GeorgiusCz> tried twice. First U, then the cable, then battery
May 31 19:32:04 <Stskeeps> that's odd. are you running flasher as root?
May 31 19:32:11 <GeorgiusCz> obviously
May 31 19:32:22 * Stskeeps ponders
May 31 19:32:34 <GeorgiusCz> maybe mass storage driver has to be removed ?
May 31 19:32:40 <Stskeeps> or phonet
May 31 19:33:02 <Stskeeps> can i see your command line for flasher?
May 31 19:33:21 <GeorgiusCz> sudo flasher-3.5 -k boot/vmlinuz-2.6.33.3-11.2-n900 -n boot/initrd.img-rescue-2.6.33.3-11.2-n900 -l -b"rootdelay=1 root=/dev/ram0"
May 31 19:33:34 <Stskeeps> looks right
May 31 19:33:47 <Stskeeps> what OS?
May 31 19:33:51 <ZogG> GeorgiusCz no space needed after -b?
May 31 19:33:57 <ZogG>  -b"r
May 31 19:33:59 <Stskeeps> no
May 31 19:34:08 <ZogG> i tried =)
May 31 19:36:07 <GeorgiusCz> maybe the battery not fully charged ?
May 31 19:36:41 <Stskeeps> not impossible, but it's odd flasher doesn't pick up your n900
May 31 19:36:49 <Stskeeps> last idea is rebooting your machine
May 31 19:36:49 <Stskeeps> :P
May 31 19:37:17 <GeorgiusCz> I am running Linux, you know ;-)
May 31 19:37:59 <GeorgiusCz> Ubuntu 9.10 32bit
May 31 19:39:17 <Stskeeps> i know, but that kernel has phonet and stuff kernel driver
May 31 19:40:34 <Stskeeps> sec..
May 31 19:41:02 <Stskeeps> rmmod cdc-phonet, might have to temporary blacklist it
May 31 19:42:26 <GeorgiusCz> ERROR: Module cdc_phonet does not exist in /proc/modules
May 31 19:42:38 <GeorgiusCz>  lsmod|grep phonet is empty
May 31 19:42:40 <Stskeeps> hmm
May 31 19:42:45 <Stskeeps> could i see your lsmod?
May 31 19:43:08 <GeorgiusCz> \me is going to flood ;-)
May 31 19:43:13 <GeorgiusCz> Module                  Size  Used by nls_iso8859_1           3740  0  nls_cp437               5372  0  vfat                   10716  0  fat                    51452  1 vfat binfmt_misc             8356  1  vboxnetadp              7296  0  vboxnetflt             14344  0  vboxdrv               177320  2 vboxnetadp,vboxnetflt dm_crypt               12928  0  snd_hda_codec_idt      59876  1  snd_emu10k1_synth       6140  0  snd_em
May 31 19:43:35 <Stskeeps> is that a real machine, fwiw?
May 31 19:43:59 <GeorgiusCz> yes
May 31 19:44:13 <GeorgiusCz> http://pastebin.com/DxahjNUf
May 31 19:46:09 <Stskeeps> in a usb hub or straight port?
May 31 19:48:22 <GeorgiusCz> usb hub
May 31 19:48:27 <GeorgiusCz> can make a difference ?
May 31 19:50:11 <Stskeeps> yeah
May 31 19:50:15 <Stskeeps> try directly in port
May 31 19:56:21 <GeorgiusCz> great, I have a shell !
May 31 19:56:57 <GeorgiusCz> but only for few seconds :-( then mass storage starts up
May 31 19:56:58 <GeorgiusCz> :-(
May 31 19:58:39 <GeorgiusCz> any idea ?
May 31 19:59:10 <Stskeeps> did it show a shell on the device?
May 31 19:59:15 <GeorgiusCz> yes
May 31 19:59:22 <Stskeeps> and then it showed nokia logo?
May 31 19:59:35 <Stskeeps> .. did you hold down 'U' key by chance?
May 31 20:00:32 <GeorgiusCz> yes, pressed and hold up to shell start
May 31 20:00:38 <Stskeeps> well, that's why
May 31 20:00:47 <Stskeeps> sec
May 31 20:01:04 <Stskeeps> Toggle USB storage mode on/off (U)
May 31 20:01:11 <Stskeeps> function of the shell ;)
May 31 20:13:22 <GeorgiusCz> even with U and report that mass storage is of, it swithes to that mode (with no console)
May 31 20:15:35 <GeorgiusCz> neither on nor off make any difference :-(
May 31 20:21:13 <GeorgiusCz> wiki updated with the info I know so far
May 31 20:21:30 <GeorgiusCz> Stskeeps: any idea ?
May 31 20:21:48 <CosmoHill> alt + F4 ?
May 31 20:23:31 <Stskeeps> GeorgiusCz: avoid pressing u
May 31 20:24:06 <Stskeeps> bbl
May 31 20:24:51 <CosmoHill> hey thiago_home, how was the bbq?
May 31 20:31:24 <GeorgiusCz> storage 0, networking 0 .. storage0 networking 0 - Nokia logo - reboot
May 31 20:31:26 <GeorgiusCz> :-(
May 31 20:31:33 <GeorgiusCz> I did not touch anything
May 31 20:34:07 <GeorgiusCz> Stskeeps: strange, isn't it ?
May 31 20:59:00 <CosmoHill> Tumi_: http://pastebin.cross-lfs.org/6913 << if you're interested, it's my sound system
May 31 21:00:11 <Stskeeps> GeorgiusCz: --enable-rd-mode --set-rd-flags=no-omap-wd,no-ext-wd , add that
May 31 21:25:56 <rolsworth> i just tried this OS on my Eeepc yesterday
May 31 21:26:18 <rolsworth> is it a beta? for a linux distro it does not seem to have anything
May 31 21:26:37 <rolsworth> no office software
May 31 21:28:14 <w00t_> early days for one, yes
May 31 21:28:35 <rolsworth> but where are the software
May 31 21:28:40 <rolsworth> not compatible ?
May 31 21:28:55 <w00t_> go get packaging, and it'll be there
May 31 21:29:16 <rolsworth> what?
May 31 21:30:45 <w00t_> point being, that it's early days, so everything under the sun isn't going to be available out of the box yet
May 31 21:30:55 <w00t_> if you want it, you're probably going to have to make it work, or wait for someone else to do so
May 31 22:04:37 <renato> hi all, I need to mount my extenal drive "ext4" in my meego netbook. What is the best solution for this? recompile the kernel? Or there is the ext4 module compiled in some place?
May 31 22:18:53 <CosmoHill> isn't ext4 backward compatable with ext3 and 2?
May 31 22:38:22 <renato> CosmoHill, I think no because I tried mount with -t ext3 and ext2 and does not work
May 31 23:19:21 * CosmoHill does a bit more revision for tomorrow's exam
May 31 23:56:40 <CosmoHill> night night
May 31 23:56:46 <CosmoHill> wish me luck in my exam :o
May 31 23:57:10 <TSCHAKeee2> good luck
May 31 23:57:13 <TSCHAKeee2> :)
May 31 23:57:27 <janneg> ext4 with extents is not backwards compatible
May 31 23:57:30 <CosmoHill> I feel much more confident now after all my revision :)
May 31 23:58:10 <TSCHAKeee2> janneg: were you the one who wrote the hdpvr driver?
Jun 01 00:11:14 <janneg> TSCHAKeee2: yes
Jun 01 00:12:10 * TSCHAKeee2 hugs janneg
Jun 01 00:12:15 <TSCHAKeee2> janneg: thanks, man.
Jun 01 00:12:39 <TSCHAKeee2> janneg: it took us a while, but finally got it folded into LinuxMCE, plug and play.. but it works very well.
Jun 01 00:17:09 <janneg> your welcome. and feel kind of bad since the driver could be better. (un)fortunately I don't use it day to day since I have working digital capture devices
Jun 01 00:17:22 <janneg> I feel
Jun 01 01:10:01 <csd> Hi I'm looking at the n900 kickstart and it points to this URL http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/repo/arm/os which doesn't exist - anyone know the right URL?
Jun 01 02:56:32 <rolsworth> the update feature on this os does not work
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 01 02:59:57 2010