**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 03 02:59:56 2010 Aug 03 04:16:30 hm Aug 03 04:16:33 1.0.1 huh? :) Aug 03 04:16:40 how is the n900 dev going? Aug 03 04:28:59 Just a quick reminder that the community office meeting is in about 30 minutes: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings for anyone wanting to attend. Aug 03 04:49:34 hi..I am new at developing programs for other thn computer Aug 03 05:49:00 any one here? Aug 03 05:49:13 sortof Aug 03 05:50:16 hi all, I get black screen while run 'startmeego' in the meego-netbook-sdk env. Aug 03 05:50:22 how could i do? Aug 03 05:50:39 sorry Aug 03 05:50:42 I working for meego handset Aug 03 05:51:07 Stskeeps: what you interest in? Aug 03 05:51:13 Jisong: thanks, Aug 03 05:52:38 Jisong: i work on nokia n900 hardware adaptation team, using meego handset software on there Aug 03 05:53:11 Stskeeps: so, you are a nokia employee? Aug 03 05:53:37 no, i'm a sub-sub-contractor, but practically i'm from maemo.org, but working on meego Aug 03 05:53:40 :P Aug 03 05:54:10 Stskeeps: complicate... Aug 03 05:54:25 Stskeeps: you come from US? Aug 03 05:54:51 Jisong: poland Aug 03 05:55:25 Stskeeps: I want to join to the meego touch project, but i knew nothing about the open source style. Aug 03 05:56:22 have you already join to some project in meego ? Aug 03 05:56:48 Jisong: best way is to try and submit patches, see their reactions, if there's some materials you're missing, ask for them Aug 03 05:57:12 ali_z: what graphics shipset do you have? Aug 03 05:57:15 chipset* Aug 03 05:57:50 ChildOfGod: VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82G33/G31 Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 10) Aug 03 05:58:24 Stskeeps: I have tried to contact with admin of the meego touch project, and told him my suggestion about naming convension and other things, but it seems no react from him... Aug 03 05:58:45 Jisong: admins on gitorious usually have nothing to deal with it :/ Aug 03 05:59:22 Stskeeps: uh.... what should I do for my suggestion Aug 03 06:00:50 ChildOfGod: I could get meego-handset-sdk normally several days ago, and now it is still working. Aug 03 06:01:05 Stskeeps: my suggestion related to so many source code lines. I can't patch it by myself... Aug 03 06:01:06 Jisong: mailing list, i think Aug 03 06:01:11 ali_z: intel should work Aug 03 06:01:41 Stskeeps: Yeah, I did that... but, still no responce... Aug 03 06:01:42 kindly paste me the output of /var/log/syslog on your host system (not the chroot) Aug 03 06:01:49 ali_z: ^ Aug 03 06:01:51 use pastebin Aug 03 06:02:27 ChildOfGod: but i could only see the background at first, and then it could not show the whole desktop but a black screen Aug 03 06:03:44 ali_z: one of my collegue has same problem. I update qt to 4.7.0 then problem occured. Aug 03 06:05:44 ok. Aug 03 06:06:04 did you check the md5sum of the sdk you downloaded? Aug 03 06:07:17 Jisong: I use the meego-netbook-sdk, and the qt version is 'qt-4.7.0~prerelease-6.2.i586' Aug 03 06:07:36 Jisong: should i update to which version? Aug 03 06:08:15 ChildOfGod: how to use pastebin? Aug 03 06:08:52 ali_z: No, I think update may cause problem... Aug 03 06:09:24 Jisong: oh, sorry to misunderstanding. Aug 03 06:09:51 Jisong: then should i downgrade the qt package? Aug 03 06:10:12 ali_z: Ha, it's ok, my english is tragic... Aug 03 06:10:31 http://pastebin.ca Aug 03 06:10:52 ali_z: I have no idea, but you should show your boot log. Aug 03 06:11:10 ali_z: sorry, wait Aug 03 06:11:24 http://fpaste.org Aug 03 06:12:00 Jisong: i will when i learned how to use pastebin, and thank you Aug 03 06:12:24 ChildOfGod: thanks , now i am trying Aug 03 06:13:32 ChildOfGod: i am sorry, there is no /var/log/syslog on my host system Aug 03 06:14:15 ChildOfGod: could i use 'dmesg' to get some logs? Aug 03 06:14:36 ya sure Aug 03 06:14:39 al Aug 03 06:14:41 ali_z: Aug 03 06:16:55 oh, it is too big to paste, i should spit it to several small parts Aug 03 06:17:22 ChildOfGod: should i paste all of the 'dmesg' log? Aug 03 06:17:28 no Aug 03 06:17:39 only the stuff that comes after you run the sdk Aug 03 06:17:42 al Aug 03 06:17:43 ali_z: Aug 03 06:18:54 ChildOfGod: oh, then i clear the messages first and re-run the command Aug 03 06:19:28 well Aug 03 06:19:42 ali_z: yes you could do that Aug 03 06:19:54 ali_z: or do tail -f /var/log/messages Aug 03 06:20:03 and paste me what comes there Aug 03 06:20:23 i suspect mutter is crashing for you Aug 03 06:25:32 ChildOfGod: http://fpaste.org/DWsK/ the log info while i run startmeego-debug, and i saw that the contents of /var/log/messages is like that Aug 03 06:28:09 ChildOfGod: the contents of /var/log/meesages is too large and the tail of it should be not enough Aug 03 06:28:22 ya thats ok Aug 03 06:29:23 i cant see anything wrong in particular. mutter does not seem to crash ali_z Aug 03 06:34:10 ChildOfGod: oh, but i could not see the normally destkop of meego Aug 03 06:34:10 ChildOfGod: the log info from /var/log/messages: http://fpaste.org/oPL4/ Aug 03 06:43:05 ChildOfGod: what is the meaning of "NOTE: Not using GLX TFP!" from mutter-warning? Aug 03 06:43:27 ali_z: whatever it is, it doesnt matter because i get it too and it runs fine here :) Aug 03 06:44:57 ChildOfGod: oh, it's strange for me, and thank you for you help, i'll redo everything and have a try again. Aug 03 06:45:08 ya do that. Aug 03 07:07:44 hi Aug 03 07:08:13 I neeed help! Aug 03 07:09:05 does anybody know about release.gpg and release in Maemo? Aug 03 07:11:23 gug Aug 03 07:14:07 Morning, all Aug 03 07:14:39 is there a unique key of device which we can read in MeeGo ? Aug 03 07:26:16 o/ Aug 03 07:26:26 morn lbt Aug 03 07:26:27 \o Aug 03 07:26:31 hey lbt Aug 03 07:26:56 good morning Aug 03 07:55:02 morning Aug 03 07:57:32 morning Aug 03 09:42:24 bah... anyone EVER tried to make linux bootable with BCD? Aug 03 09:42:28 is that even feasible? Aug 03 09:45:26 any news on the first phone nokia with meego?? Aug 03 13:21:29 anyone have video http://meego.com/community/blogs/margie/2010/meego-ivi-v1.0-announcement ? Aug 03 13:24:42 toggles_w: vgrade has a video of it running on his joggler Aug 03 13:24:56 Stskeeps: linky? ;-) Aug 03 13:25:09 hey guys... i made a custom list/repository for garage, and it has many applications... after loading some of them, it gives me a dbus limit exceed error and stops resolving the applications... how can i prevent that? Aug 03 13:25:29 toggles_w: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwQSLauI1zI Aug 03 13:26:06 Stskeeps: grazie! Aug 03 13:27:22 vgrade: ping Aug 03 13:27:47 vgrade: just saw your email abot the psb, someone tested it? Aug 03 13:28:07 btw, i had some progress on it some weeks ago, you can check it out at: http://www.zimmerle.org/index.html Aug 03 13:28:29 zimmerle: you're aware we're using emgd right? :P Aug 03 13:29:13 emgd? no, what is emgd? :P Aug 03 13:29:30 zimmerle: continuation of iegd but for xorg 1.8 (meego 1.0 point of reference) Aug 03 13:29:32 sec Aug 03 13:30:03 zimmerle: http://jogglerwiki.info/index.php?title=MeeGo#Meego_1.0_Those_over_there_are_not_giants_but_windmills Aug 03 13:30:18 let me check it out :P Aug 03 13:30:54 btw, i am building a image to test on psb Aug 03 13:31:20 i see Aug 03 13:31:50 it is hardly licensing kosher (yes, still a closed xorg driver and closed libs) but it works quite well Aug 03 13:33:43 3d is working well ? Aug 03 13:34:04 zimmerle: i have full handset ux on there flawlessly (fennec excepted) Aug 03 13:34:09 so i'd think it works well enough Aug 03 13:34:52 Just downloading the packges Aug 03 13:35:08 * zimmerle on the phone, back in minutes Aug 03 13:46:22 does anyone know when the community OBS will be open? Aug 03 13:47:00 A totally grabbed out of my own back-side guess would be sometime before the convention ;) Aug 03 13:54:37 * kryptoz is away: Gone away for now Aug 03 13:57:07 * kryptoz is back. Aug 03 14:01:08 Hi Aug 03 14:01:14 maybe you can help me Aug 03 14:01:58 I work on the moblin-dalston applet (for power & volume management) Aug 03 14:02:48 and I'm looking for the dev on the meego power management (the little battery on the right in the meego's toolbar Aug 03 14:03:08 but I can find it on gitorious... Aug 03 14:04:19 Do you know where I can find the sources, to see what they (you) did from moblin? Aug 03 14:05:23 *(I meant "I CAN'T find it on gitorious") Aug 03 14:55:49 I think MeeGo should be based on GNU's kernel instead of the Linux kernel. I HURD it was good Aug 03 14:55:52 :P Aug 03 14:57:09 DawnFoster: random question, why did noone react to the open letter thing if this was a problem? Aug 03 14:57:36 stskeeps: I'm not sure. Aug 03 14:58:15 Hi Aug 03 14:58:40 DawnFoster: because then i'd like to point to what repo.meego.com resolves to and our 'non-oss' category :/ Aug 03 14:59:00 so figuring out what exactly the policy is is probably a good idea Aug 03 14:59:01 Stskeeps: I think that lbt's post to the mailing list was very long and the real issue was buried Aug 03 14:59:31 DawnFoster: not entirely disagreeing on that point Aug 03 15:00:20 Stskeeps: I think people missed the core of what he was asking Aug 03 15:00:26 buried? Aug 03 15:00:52 The purpose of this letter is to ask the MeeGo community Aug 03 15:00:53 DawnFoster: but anyway, repo.meego.com resolves to OSUOSL and hosts closed source software, so we have a bigger problem if this is the agreement. Aug 03 15:00:53 for their permission to bring Maemo build targets (currently Fremantle Aug 03 15:00:55 eventually Harmattan, Diablo, Chinook?) to the MeeGo Community OBS Aug 03 15:01:20 "We want to build Nokia SW on MeeGo" ... how is that buried? Aug 03 15:01:28 Stskeeps: I agree that we haven't figured that out yet. Aug 03 15:02:11 lbt: the email was very long Aug 03 15:02:35 it was in the first paragraph Aug 03 15:02:44 DawnFoster: sorry, didn't mean to appear hostile, not my intention.. i guess the center core is that we're missing out on the possibility for bringing in maemo developers on to meego this way Aug 03 15:02:50 lbt: I'm just speculating Aug 03 15:03:06 anyhow... now you know... have a longer read :) Aug 03 15:03:16 It's a horrible position to be in Aug 03 15:03:32 you know I'm a rabid card-carrying FSF member (really, I am) Aug 03 15:03:45 but I think we need to be pragmatic Aug 03 15:04:13 The balance between open / proprietary isn't always clean, and it's hard to figure out where to draw the line. Aug 03 15:04:33 *nod*.... we want to support the maemo community Aug 03 15:04:40 and *THAT* is the crux Aug 03 15:04:56 lbt: I agree Aug 03 15:05:08 lbt: but we need to make sure that we do it in the right way Aug 03 15:05:09 lbt: is there any problem in keeping maemo.org OBS and a OBS link to make it possible to build apps? Aug 03 15:05:15 we will also have other real world issues going fwd ... but they can wait for a bar Aug 03 15:05:26 if we make exceptions for Nokia, do we make exceptions for every device manufacturer? Aug 03 15:05:34 see the email :) Aug 03 15:05:43 para 5 or 6 Aug 03 15:06:07 I put hours of thought into writing and re-writing (and condensing) it Aug 03 15:07:09 DawnFoster: we also have a problem with forum software choice now then, as mike shaver originally said it wasn't a problem.. Aug 03 15:07:14 as long as umbrella project was os Aug 03 15:07:14 s Aug 03 15:07:29 (Re: [Meego-community] (URGENT) Meego Forum Software Choice ) Aug 03 15:08:10 Stskeeps: that's a different issue Aug 03 15:09:12 DawnFoster: no, not really, http://pastebin.com/Z1fkjnBC Aug 03 15:10:01 Stskeeps: like I said, this is one of those gray areas Aug 03 15:10:05 :nod: Aug 03 15:10:24 DawnFoster: either way.. getting a clear statement is probably the basis of these discussions Aug 03 15:10:24 Stskeeps: I gave my opinion of which side of the gray area it falls in bugzilla Aug 03 15:10:48 Stskeeps: someone may decide I'm wrong :) Aug 03 15:10:59 DawnFoster: :nod: and i might be wrong too Aug 03 15:11:18 this is why I wrote an open letter for discussion... Aug 03 15:12:16 DawnFoster: from a entirely practical point of view, we have a problem in how to merge these two communities and continuation of app developers on to meego, we have to find a way to deal with it :P Aug 03 15:12:44 So rather than debate amongst ourselves, who owns making this decision? Probably Arjan from an overall technical project architecture and someone from the Linux Foundation (maybe Ibrahim) Aug 03 15:13:05 or maybe Mark Skarpness from a compliance perspective Aug 03 15:13:32 okay, so, stepping back - we're speaking of maemo closed bins, which is needed to build apps for maemo Aug 03 15:13:51 they have nothing to deal with meego app building or inclusion into the meego software Aug 03 15:13:56 Stskeeps: application development is critical to the success of MeeGo, and I agree that we can't lose application developers Aug 03 15:14:16 we just need to make sure that we get everyone together working on MeeGo (not Maemo / Moblin) Aug 03 15:14:30 yes, and being able to build for the two is a key issue Aug 03 15:15:16 From Nokia PoV we have Harmattan as the first MeeGo-esque target too Aug 03 15:15:18 DawnFoster: another (big) issue is the whole issue with harmattan.. Aug 03 15:15:35 snap? Aug 03 15:17:08 DawnFoster: okay.. so, a practical suggestion: would you be able to make a writeup presenting this topic so we can get the topic discussed properly? Aug 03 15:17:33 because i think the discussion needs to be taken properly this time around so we can put it in the ground or on wheels Aug 03 15:18:09 and preferably agreed on either by CO or TSG so it's stone set Aug 03 15:18:47 Stskeeps: I disagree Aug 03 15:18:48 the one after Harmattan is *really* MeeGo Aug 03 15:18:57 I've been talking to the team who is organising themselves to do it Aug 03 15:19:03 Stskeeps: this is outside of the scope of the community office Aug 03 15:19:05 thiago: hey, you're the Qt person, right? Aug 03 15:19:10 they will take MeeGo 1.0.80 snapshots now and try to bolt the Nokia apps on top Aug 03 15:19:19 a colleague is running into Qt pain and is looking for help Aug 03 15:19:20 * slonopotamus yawns. same talk again and again... just publish closed stuff in a country where it isn't against law and ftw. Aug 03 15:19:24 DawnFoster: okay Aug 03 15:19:25 timeless: no, I'm a Qt person. Not "the one" :-) Aug 03 15:19:25 Stskeeps: TSG is only for escalations and big decisions that can't be made lower in the project Aug 03 15:19:33 thiago: you'll do ;-b) Aug 03 15:19:44 Stskeeps: someone should take it to Arjan, Mark and Ibrahim first Aug 03 15:19:53 I'm not the right person to do that Aug 03 15:19:54 these people are also investigating the delta (versions, patches) between Harmattan and MeeGo 1.1 Aug 03 15:20:06 including the multitouch X.org driver Aug 03 15:20:17 thiago: sounds fun Aug 03 15:20:32 DawnFoster: i'll make a 10 liner writeup on the issue and get the conversation starte Aug 03 15:20:34 thiago: basically, we're having trouble figuring out what is responsible for ensuring that dead keys get partially eaten by the QtXIM bridge before they arrive at the application's event handler Aug 03 15:20:35 d Aug 03 15:21:02 timeless: someone inserted an event filter and they're getting deadkeys? Aug 03 15:21:17 i don't think they've inserted anything Aug 03 15:21:29 DawnFoster: would you like to review before it's passed around? Aug 03 15:21:30 i think for some reason the normal Qt filtering isn't being triggered Aug 03 15:21:36 if they just have keyEvent handlers, they shouldn't be getting deadkeys Aug 03 15:21:42 .. so they get too much of the deadkeys Aug 03 15:21:43 but I have seen cases where it doesn't work Aug 03 15:21:59 Stskeeps: I'd be happy to take a look if you want my opinion on it Aug 03 15:22:00 it happens once in a while in KDE apps, but doing Alt+Tab out and back solves the problem Aug 03 15:22:00 thiago: anyway, the code is mozilla's Qt widget stack Aug 03 15:22:14 DawnFoster: gladly - i do respect your opinion and most often agree with it :P Aug 03 15:22:22 it happens consistently on Qt Creator when opening tests/auto/qurl/tst_qurl.cpp Aug 03 15:22:24 this is consistent, the app (Fennec-Qt) *always* gets Press+Release Aug 03 15:22:32 timeless: of the deadkeys? Aug 03 15:22:43 i think they're expecting not to get the Press for the deadkey Aug 03 15:22:44 thiago: yep Aug 03 15:22:49 (and any other key) Aug 03 15:22:55 Stskeeps: half the fun of working on an open source project is that we get to argue with people until we finally find something we can all agree to :) Aug 03 15:22:56 timeless: so if you press dead_acute, you get ´ printed? Aug 03 15:23:30 thiago: um, lemme make a call Aug 03 15:24:38 i think the key we're using is ^/umlaut/tilde Aug 03 15:24:42 it makes me respect the IETF process all the more, "rough consensus, working code." :P Aug 03 15:25:04 i guess the natural character is umlaut, which i don't think is normally represented Aug 03 15:25:13 (uncomposed) Aug 03 15:27:49 thiago: anyway, i'll try to get him to poke you tomorrow Aug 03 15:28:33 you're @troll central, right? are you generally around by 9a local time? Aug 03 15:28:55 * timeless just wants to make a connection, not sit as a middleman Aug 03 15:30:46 wrong button Aug 03 15:31:24 * thiago is on vacation Aug 03 15:31:32 yay Aug 03 15:31:32 ask him to go to #qt or #qt-labs Aug 03 15:31:43 funny use of a vacation =b Aug 03 16:02:25 DawnFoster: mail sent to you and quim - thanks in advance for comments and suggestions Aug 03 17:45:52 cool, the handset and netbook qemu sdk images are out Aug 03 17:52:43 PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND Aug 03 17:52:48 6813 root 30 10 3676 504 428 R 79.2 0.1 0:45.63 rm Aug 03 17:52:53 2053 root 15 -5 0 0 0 R 16.5 0.0 12:10.45 kmirrord Aug 03 17:52:56 hehe Aug 03 18:26:42 hrm. Aug 03 18:27:06 mm Aug 03 18:27:09 ? Aug 03 19:04:17 evening all Aug 03 19:12:49 evening slaine Aug 03 19:13:05 hi slaine Aug 03 19:13:12 evening th0br0, long time no type Aug 03 19:13:20 Hey DawnFoster, welcome back Aug 03 19:13:27 did you have a good vacation ? Aug 03 19:13:29 indeed, the past few weeks have been horrible in terms of work-load for me Aug 03 19:13:32 wb DawnFoster Aug 03 19:13:39 th0br0: snap Aug 03 19:13:46 hella busy Aug 03 19:13:53 it's 20:13 here and I'm still working Aug 03 19:13:55 slaine, thanks! I had a really nice, relaxing location - I ignored work and email for 6 days :) Aug 03 19:14:08 oops location = vacation Aug 03 19:14:13 DawnFoster: awe, sounds like bliss Aug 03 19:14:54 slaine: it was nice - visited with family, rode enormous fast roller coasters Aug 03 19:15:07 stop, I'm turning green Aug 03 19:15:22 with jealousy, not imagined motion sickness ;) Aug 03 19:16:01 When will Intel release cloning technology Aug 03 19:16:03 I was just wondering which one :) We went here, btw: http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/park/rides/coasters/index.cfm Aug 03 19:16:13 we're working on it Aug 03 19:16:23 I've so much stuff to do and so many "projects" I'm never going to get time to start Aug 03 19:16:42 cedarpoint, I've heard of it (all good things) Aug 03 19:17:13 it's one of the top roller coaster parks in the world - conveniently located 1.5 hours away from where I grew up Aug 03 19:17:41 handy alright Aug 03 19:18:06 I know the feeling - too many projects & not enough time. Aug 03 19:18:13 yup Aug 03 19:18:30 awe well, coffee will help some of them to fruition, bbs Aug 03 19:18:37 I have some personal tech projects that I am deliberately neglecting until summer is over. Aug 03 19:18:59 I was pretty burned out already when I started working at Intel, so I needed a little down time Aug 03 19:19:33 DawnFoster: Could you send me a sandy bridge CPU and LGA2011 motherboard Aug 03 19:19:38 thanks in advance Aug 03 19:19:47 ScottishDuck: nice try :) Aug 03 19:20:08 I haven't even been able to get my hands on one of those aava platforms (my request was denied) :) Aug 03 19:20:36 DawnFoster: the shame Aug 03 19:20:40 You could send me a Rockwell CPU then Aug 03 19:20:40 ;) Aug 03 19:20:56 I'll keep asking - someday I'll get one Aug 03 19:21:13 "Dream weaver, I believe in you...." Aug 03 19:21:18 yeah right Aug 03 19:21:42 I think those aava handsets are devilishly expensive Aug 03 19:22:08 current aava images dont work anyway :) Aug 03 19:22:17 or atleast you need keyboard Aug 03 19:23:20 I've seen it working, but I wouldn't call it end use ready :) Aug 03 19:23:40 yeah the image released on handset day 1 worked Aug 03 19:23:52 * Stskeeps has started making a kitchen UX based on handset UX for him and his wife (joggler based) Aug 03 19:23:59 nice free time project Aug 03 19:27:34 haha Stskeeps Aug 03 19:27:41 nice idea. Aug 03 19:27:43 and hello Aug 03 19:28:47 Stskeeps: I need to get you on a LinuxMCE installation. ;) Aug 03 19:28:48 Stskeeps: you're going to port a recipe app to it? Aug 03 19:29:05 Myrtti: we have recipes in onenote so we were thinking of exporting to html Aug 03 19:29:11 as a start Aug 03 19:29:23 TSCHAKeee: once you can view tv series like boxee does, i'm in Aug 03 19:29:23 :P Aug 03 19:29:32 right. I've got Gourmet on my desktop and had the whatever app it was on N800 Aug 03 19:29:38 * TSCHAKeee has our current Orbiter ported over to the Joggler for now. Aug 03 19:30:19 goddammit, hiccups Aug 03 19:30:34 Stskeeps: it's on the list to redo the entire media browser... but it is worth noting we're the only whole house solution that exists. Aug 03 19:30:52 TSCHAKeee: yeah, i like whole house but with a wife that cares about power consumption.. Aug 03 19:30:56 (the ultra high end solutions like Crestron and AMX don't even come close) Aug 03 19:31:18 *nod* Aug 03 19:31:22 ok Aug 03 19:31:32 Aug 03 19:31:36 :P Aug 03 19:32:04 i really wouldn't mind power management that didn't only deal with cpus and battery life.. but seeing the entire house in context Aug 03 19:32:05 I wonder how Intel intends to make 16nm CPUs in 2013 Aug 03 19:32:07 :P Aug 03 19:32:14 because I'm pretty sure it's impossible with silicon Aug 03 19:41:55 zimmerle, hi, just seen your page on the psb netbook build Aug 03 20:31:22 vgrade: hi there :P Aug 03 20:31:34 vgrade: i not tested yours yet Aug 03 20:31:54 vgrade: the image is built Aug 03 20:32:07 * zimmerle is trying to find my usb stick :P Aug 03 20:48:14 hi Aug 03 21:14:09 zimmerle, which one did you build, netbook or IVI Aug 03 22:18:32 * lbt looks at jeremiah's rants on the meego bugzilla and shakes his head in bemusement. Aug 03 22:20:41 well, meego's bugzilla is terrible Aug 03 22:21:15 wait, where did he rant? Aug 03 22:21:23 auke: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=615 Aug 03 22:21:38 " Open the access of MeeGo OBS" Aug 03 22:21:54 did you see my "open letter" epic email? Aug 03 22:24:28 lbt: yup Aug 03 22:24:40 Haha oh wow Aug 03 22:24:42 did you see Dawn's earlier comments? Aug 03 22:24:56 lbt: I'm still here btw Aug 03 22:24:57 :) Aug 03 22:25:01 lbt: don't see anything wrong with that, other than extreme resistance from certain people to do so voluntarily :) Aug 03 22:25:06 since when was an Open OBS the standard for projects Aug 03 22:25:32 ScottishDuck: it's not, but it's a start? Aug 03 22:25:33 DawnFoster: I'd expect no less :) Aug 03 22:26:03 auke: nothing wrong with what? Aug 03 22:26:07 I'm trying to get someone from the LF to chime in on the bug or mailing list thread Aug 03 22:26:14 lbt: your suggestion Aug 03 22:26:34 OK ... Aug 03 22:26:54 I can see your point DawnFoster... Aug 03 22:26:56 actually, the LF might be ok with the nokia proprietary binaries in the community OBS - still trying to get an answer for you Aug 03 22:27:12 we should also loop arjan into the discussion, since he's the meego architecture lead Aug 03 22:28:39 DawnFoster: I just added arjan to that bugzilla XD Aug 03 22:30:25 make that 24 Aug 03 22:30:26 auke: thanks - the cc list was so huge, I just assumed he was already on it Aug 03 22:30:56 * lbt is tempted to just announce the url and close the bug :) Aug 03 22:31:06 jeremiah reeks of stallman in disguise Aug 03 22:31:13 from reading that bug Aug 03 22:31:24 nah... stallman is consistent and rational Aug 03 22:31:30 hahahahahaha Aug 03 22:31:33 no Aug 03 22:31:47 sorry, that was unkind... Aug 03 22:32:13 Stallman argues about freedom, yet allowed GCC extensions to exist Aug 03 22:32:16 real consistant Aug 03 22:32:29 * lbt backs away.... Aug 03 22:32:36 :) Aug 03 22:32:45 I'm refrainging to make statements about Richard Stallman Aug 03 22:32:45 * lbt is an FSF member.... Aug 03 22:32:54 oh noes Aug 03 22:33:20 I pay them to have my opinion... then I can get on with real work... Aug 03 22:33:21 So are GCC extensions a "don't ask don't tell" subject? Aug 03 22:46:30 ScottishDuck: extensions to C and C++? Aug 03 22:46:52 yes Aug 03 22:46:57 the extensions are all documented as such, they provide new functionality allowing better code Aug 03 22:47:00 they aren't necessary Aug 03 22:47:07 they are non-standard Aug 03 22:47:12 and some extensions become official C and C++ in newer standards Aug 03 22:47:21 some Aug 03 22:47:25 like interleaved declarations and code in C89, // comments Aug 03 22:47:45 gcc can also disable and warn about any extensions Aug 03 22:48:01 However, anyone that wants to make an alternate compiler would have to support gcc extensions Aug 03 22:48:08 or not Aug 03 22:48:17 which for some projects, is impossibe as they strive for standards compliance Aug 03 22:48:20 I mean, HP, Sun and IBM aren't doing the extensions Aug 03 22:48:42 I don't see Microsoft doing them either Aug 03 22:48:49 thiago: Could you build meego with llvm. Aug 03 22:48:52 clang* Aug 03 22:48:55 answer: no Aug 03 22:48:58 clang isn't C++-compliant yet Aug 03 22:49:01 so that's not a point Aug 03 22:49:01 reason: gcc extensions Aug 03 22:49:16 Linux kernel is filled with gcc extensions Aug 03 22:49:26 the Linux kernel is not meant to be built with anything but gcc Aug 03 22:49:37 that was a conscious decision: "we support gcc only" Aug 03 22:50:05 but it is the job of the GNU to maintain software freedoms Aug 03 22:50:08 any compiler has extensions, particularities and implementation details Aug 03 22:50:14 all of them have that Aug 03 22:50:27 what does clang have Aug 03 22:50:38 the C language and the C++ language both have a very well-defined constructs Aug 03 22:50:44 any developer can stick to them Aug 03 22:50:54 the Linux developers chose not to Aug 03 22:51:05 Qt developers chose to Aug 03 22:51:06 they would not have chose to do that Aug 03 22:51:13 if gcc had no extensions Aug 03 22:51:23 no, that's not the point Aug 03 22:51:27 yes it is Aug 03 22:51:28 all compilers have extensions Aug 03 22:51:53 the kernel developers chose not to adhere to the C standard and to depend on the GCC implementation details Aug 03 22:51:59 that was their choice Aug 03 22:52:08 Qt developers chose to support multiple compilers, however Aug 03 22:52:19 yet gcc is the most-often used one Aug 03 22:52:31 and yes, we use extensions where they make life easier Aug 03 22:52:39