**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 11 02:59:57 2010
Aug 11 04:12:28 * gnuyoga is thrilled see a huge fan following for meego (and sick of seeing dead android irc channels ;-) )
Aug 11 04:30:00 * gnuyoga is looking at fellow release engineers and would like to contribute in that space, any one out here ? 
Aug 11 04:30:19 <gnuyoga> s/at/for/
Aug 11 04:31:59 <chriadam> gnuyoga: channel's pretty quiet at this time of the day, if you wait a few hours things will get a bit busier in here.
Aug 11 04:55:19 <Stskeeps> gnuyoga: #meego can be rather dead at times but #meego-dev , #meego-handset etc are more active. regarding release engineering, ask at meego-dev@meego.com for where you can help out
Aug 11 05:42:22 <ChildOfGod> I hear that MeeGo will move to Qt. Does that mean the current Clutter based Netbook UX (the panels and the toolbars etc) will be rewritten in Qt?
Aug 11 05:51:16 <gnuyoga> chriadam, Stskeeps: thanks
Aug 11 06:41:56 <DuckBoot> bjSederja
Aug 11 08:09:27 <Stskeeps> morning anaZ, slaine
Aug 11 08:09:44 <slaine> morning Stskeeps anaZ
Aug 11 08:10:09 <w00t_> morning anaZ, Stskeeps, slaine
Aug 11 08:10:10 <w00t_> (:-p)
Aug 11 08:10:15 <slaine> hehehe
Aug 11 08:16:23 <sivang> hi all
Aug 11 10:04:20 <frals> uhm, is there a a tag for code snippets on the wiki or what should be used?
Aug 11 10:15:01 <CosmoHill> I think someone is DoSing LFS :(
Aug 11 10:21:09 <CosmoHill> anyone in her use xchat / xchat aqua?
Aug 11 11:21:26 <odin_> yay REGISTRATION time for MeeGo Conference 2010
Aug 11 11:22:39 <CosmoHill> yay
Aug 11 11:22:46 <odin_> Special Dietary Restrictions: Internet access with all meals
Aug 11 11:42:41 <odin_> it is not clear what the process is in relation to the reserved accommodation, as in I don't mind if I need to find my own but if they need to fill in places then what is the process to put my hand up?
Aug 11 11:42:55 <Jaffa> odin_: Don't know
Aug 11 11:43:58 <Jaffa> odin_: See http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-August/001341.html
Aug 11 11:44:08 <Jaffa> Waiting for a reply from Amy or DawnFoster
Aug 11 11:45:39 <thiago> is the SDK meeting in #meego-sdk or #meego-meeting?
Aug 11 11:46:23 <odin_> should be in #meego-meeting with robot logging/minutes
Aug 11 11:46:39 <thiago> thanks
Aug 11 11:46:39 <odin_> ls
Aug 11 11:50:28 <odin_> maybe need to close and announce the assistance within the next 6 weeks, so allow 2 months for everyone else to sort themselves out
Aug 11 11:51:41 <odin_> then I guess they know how many rooms/spaces are left over for others to pay their own way at group discount rates
Aug 11 11:57:54 <CosmoHill> lcuk: what's your twitter name?
Aug 11 11:58:25 <lcuk> lcuk..
Aug 11 11:58:32 <CosmoHill> hush you
Aug 11 11:59:00 <lcuk> http://twitter.com/lcuk
Aug 11 11:59:55 * lcuk likes this: RT: my followers seem 2b enthusiastic hackers architects managers geeks engineers + devs who have a #nokia #mobile life! http://bit.ly/bkEZU2
Aug 11 12:00:23 <Stskeeps> meego sdk toolchain meeting in #meego-meeting
Aug 11 12:00:36 <Andy80> hi
Aug 11 12:00:40 <Andy80> I've followed these instructions http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_QEMU and I've the MeeGo handled UI up and running... ok.. and now? It's called MeeGo SDK, but... how can I compile something (for example a Qt/C++ application) and run inside the emulator?
Aug 11 12:03:32 <CosmoHill> lcuk: I was going to see if I could find out where you are using geotagging
Aug 11 12:03:44 <lcuk> you could just ask :)
Aug 11 12:03:50 <lcuk> I am in Manchester England
Aug 11 12:11:18 <Khertan> Hi !
Aug 11 12:58:59 <timeless_mbp> thiago: i like to believe that you are
Aug 11 12:59:05 <timeless_mbp> however i question group think
Aug 11 13:07:32 <GordonS> Hey all... is there someplace sane that I can download source for the various Maemo/Meego-related dependencies for Qt Mobility?
Aug 11 13:07:47 <GordonS> That is, I'm trying to build on something other than Meego.
Aug 11 13:08:15 <GordonS> but I'm doing Meego development, so I'd ideally like to have all the plug-ins I reasonably can.
Aug 11 13:16:34 <pinheiro> hey guys :)
Aug 11 13:17:44 <pinheiro> so design UI wise how does meego work aka were is the team :D me woudl like to share eforts :D
Aug 11 13:18:42 <GAN900> pinheiro, good luck.
Aug 11 13:18:54 <GAN900> I don't think any of them have a public pressence
Aug 11 13:19:08 <timeless_mbp> is there one such 'team'?
Aug 11 13:19:29 <pinheiro> :(
Aug 11 13:19:31 <timeless_mbp> actually, i think at a base there are arguably at least 5 such 'teams'
Aug 11 13:19:35 <timeless_mbp> one for each family
Aug 11 13:19:42 <timeless_mbp> (car, notebook, ...)
Aug 11 13:19:54 <timeless_mbp> ,me isn't sure what those things are called
Aug 11 13:19:59 * timeless_mbp sighs
Aug 11 13:20:15 <pinheiro> but how can we work toguether ?
Aug 11 13:20:19 * DuckBoot hands timeless_mbp a /
Aug 11 13:20:38 <timeless_mbp> DuckBoot: thanks
Aug 11 13:20:52 <pinheiro> me wants to bring some of comunity voodo here
Aug 11 13:21:03 * DuckBoot hands pinheiro a /
Aug 11 13:21:15 <DuckBoot> Hurry up while I still have some left.
Aug 11 13:21:37 <pinheiro> "/" ?
Aug 11 13:21:40 <pinheiro> :)
Aug 11 13:21:50 <pinheiro> me usualy versed in the irc slang :D
Aug 11 13:22:03 <pinheiro> but :D
Aug 11 13:22:28 <DuckBoot> /me too
Aug 11 13:22:36 * w00t_ three
Aug 11 13:23:51 <timeless_mbp> most of my irc clients use ',' as the command char
Aug 11 13:23:57 <timeless_mbp> with the exception of this one
Aug 11 13:24:11 <timeless_mbp> and i just sat down having been using my other ones… so bad muscle memory bit me
Aug 11 13:25:19 <pinheiro> so yeah if one was interested in trying to set up/(be part of) a normal open UI design platform in meego land what would be the best course of action?
Aug 11 13:25:41 <timeless_mbp> shoot yourself in the head?
Aug 11 13:25:51 <GAN900> pinheiro, email the list, guess.
Aug 11 13:25:52 <timeless_mbp> or maybe get a nice dose of cyanide?
Aug 11 13:26:12 <GAN900> pinheiro, I can't say I have much optimism for success, though.
Aug 11 13:26:23 <pinheiro> timeless_mbp:  :D well im beeond salvation :D
Aug 11 13:26:28 <DuckBoot> timeless_mbp: There there - forgotten you happy pill today?
Aug 11 13:26:28 <GAN900> This seems like one area where "open" doesn't actually apply.
Aug 11 13:26:33 <pinheiro> GAN900:  HOW SO?
Aug 11 13:26:33 <w00t_> GAN900: i swear, if I meet you one day, I'm going to inject you with happy pills
Aug 11 13:26:38 <w00t_> :-p
Aug 11 13:27:26 <GordonS> pinheiro, CAN900: the first challenge is to get a working/recent development and test environment :-S
Aug 11 13:28:20 <GAN900> w00t_, that would've been about a year ago.
Aug 11 13:28:36 <pinheiro> GordonS:  weell i been doing this for some years now and that is not as vital from a designers POV as you might think
Aug 11 13:28:49 <GordonS> okay, fair enough :)
Aug 11 13:29:43 <pinheiro> me usualy works on stuf that will be real in 1 yaers time, its mostly a matter of good comunicaton with developers and basacly undrstanding the language
Aug 11 13:31:15 <pinheiro> more important and complicated is usualy to get all the designers to sepeak the same language, ence me beeing here  :D
Aug 11 13:31:23 <timeless_mbp> DuckBoot: i made the mistake of supporting a friend's computer
Aug 11 13:31:34 <timeless_mbp> which involved trying to back it up and then installing a fresh os
Aug 11 13:31:44 <timeless_mbp> unfortunately i failed to save the email account info and passwords
Aug 11 13:31:59 <timeless_mbp> so i managed to get almost everything working
Aug 11 13:32:04 <timeless_mbp> including 1/2 of his mailboxes
Aug 11 13:32:12 <timeless_mbp> but he's now complaining that i lost one of his mailboxes :(~
Aug 11 13:32:19 <timeless_mbp> helping people is a bad idea
Aug 11 13:32:27 <DuckBoot> timeless_mbp: Ouch - That's the reason I wear my t-shirt with the text "NO - I will NOT fix your computer"
Aug 11 13:33:12 <w00t_> do it my way, lose both their mailboxes
Aug 11 13:33:13 <timeless_mbp> i need one of those
Aug 11 13:33:15 <w00t_> they'll never ask you again
Aug 11 13:33:16 <w00t_> :-)
Aug 11 13:34:19 <CosmoHill> anyone know of a easy to use PXE boot server?
Aug 11 13:34:20 <DuckBoot> timeless_mbp: http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/frustrations/388b/
Aug 11 13:34:52 <CosmoHill> hehe, unisex frustration
Aug 11 13:36:10 <_daniel_> is here any Masayuki Ohtak :D
Aug 11 13:36:20 <_daniel_> ?
Aug 11 13:41:12 <Bluewind> hey guys I bootet meego on the n900 but the screen is very dark (read nearly black) hints?
Aug 11 13:41:31 <Stskeeps> Bluewind: start flasher, hold down power key, immediately at same time turn up light
Aug 11 13:42:46 <Bluewind> I have to shutdown before right?
Aug 11 13:45:21 <_daniel_> hey guys
Aug 11 13:45:23 <danielwilms> Bluewind: or follow step 9) from http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=4812&postcount=1
Aug 11 13:45:31 <_daniel_> what is the cheapest device that runs meego :P
Aug 11 13:46:59 <Bluewind> danielwilms: thx
Aug 11 13:48:43 <th3hate> Stskeeps, latest meego image has hw accel?
Aug 11 13:48:58 <GAN900> _daniel_, an Atom board?
Aug 11 13:49:06 <Stskeeps> th3hate: always had
Aug 11 13:49:16 <Stskeeps> th3hate: but no updated gfx driver yet
Aug 11 13:49:37 <odin_> goes the kernel have the feature to detect the CPUID on IA32, sure "cat /proc/cpuinfo" and write a script
Aug 11 13:49:37 <th3hate> you'll update em in next release?
Aug 11 13:49:46 <thiago> odin_: the kernel detects features, definitely
Aug 11 13:49:54 <_daniel_> GAN900: don't know :P
Aug 11 13:50:02 <thiago> the question is whether the kernel has a feature to abort loading if it doesn't detect a feature
Aug 11 13:50:15 <odin_> that is not a kernel feature but a dynamic-linker feature
Aug 11 13:50:24 <lbt> _daniel_: O2 Joggler probably
Aug 11 13:50:27 <_daniel_> GAN900: meego is pretty interesting stuff and I wanted to know how much should I spent in order to start playing with it
Aug 11 13:50:51 <odin_> its not that useful for aborting the kernel running from the kernel itself, that would then be the bootloaders responsibility to check such things
Aug 11 13:50:52 <pinheiro> so any talk about the design side of things at the meego conference?
Aug 11 13:50:53 <th3hate> is it possible to partition mmc and put meego + nitdroid on each partition?
Aug 11 13:50:58 <thiago> dynamic linker for refusing to load apps, yes
Aug 11 13:51:25 <odin_> this is more a QA and Support improvement anyhow
Aug 11 13:52:42 <odin_> again to reiterate there is no objection with the goal to provide optimized code for the best experience, this is a worthy goal, some thought towards inter-operability with desktop linux is what is missing
Aug 11 13:57:07 <thiago> odin_: it just happens that this is an x86 processor
Aug 11 13:57:16 <thiago> do you install ARM or MIPS binaries on your desktop Linux?
Aug 11 13:58:16 <odin_> to actually use, nope.. the last MIPS I has was an SGI Indy some 8 to 10 years ago
Aug 11 13:58:27 <smoku> How do I apply for access to Community OBS?
Aug 11 13:58:35 <sivang> so, I checked the bios, there was no options to disable or enable VT, and in VirtualBox it is reported to be working.
Aug 11 13:58:51 <sivang> still I get 'kvm: disabled by bios'
Aug 11 13:58:53 <sivang> error
Aug 11 13:59:26 <sivang> anybody have an idea? (this is when trying to follow this: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_QEMU
Aug 11 14:00:04 <odin_> did you power off your PC after changing the BIOS ?
Aug 11 14:01:13 <smoku> sivang, are you sure your mobo supports virtualization?
Aug 11 14:01:28 <lbt> smoku: ask me.... but we're transitioning at the moment so no strong need for more beta testers... unless you're an OBS expert and can spare a chunk of time/commitment?
Aug 11 14:01:36 <thiago> odin_: my point is: you shouldn't be installing those binaries to your desktop Linux
Aug 11 14:02:21 <smoku> lbt: i would like to start packaging hildon (and fremantle ui) for meego
Aug 11 14:02:41 <lbt> smoku: good enough
Aug 11 14:02:54 <smoku> lbt: carsten suggested I should use community OBS
Aug 11 14:03:04 <lbt> see /msg
Aug 11 14:03:10 <odin_> thiago, well binaries that should be kept seperate really should use unique dynamic-linker paths, then there really would be no confusion, i..e. objdump -j .interp -s /bin/ls
Aug 11 14:03:51 <odin_> thiago, such as /lib/ld-linux-meego-arm-v7.so.2  nothing wrong with that
Aug 11 14:04:48 <thiago> odin_: there's no need to have a separate loader for each arch
Aug 11 14:05:00 <thiago> but I agree that the binary should encode the arch features it used
Aug 11 14:05:13 <odin_> thiago, need ?  its not a question of need, but interoperability clarity
Aug 11 14:05:22 <thiago> no, it's not
Aug 11 14:05:28 <thiago> you don't need a different interpreter
Aug 11 14:05:29 <odin_> thiago, there is also no need to call it /lib/ld-linux.so.2
Aug 11 14:05:44 <thiago> you need something like "file" or readelf that can tell you what features are needed
Aug 11 14:05:54 <odin_> thiago, correct, its just a symlink but the point is system which do not support that ABI and distro won't have that path, do the binary will never load
Aug 11 14:06:18 <thiago> yeah, and then you get the infamous: /bin/ls: No such file or directory
Aug 11 14:06:21 <thiago> error, yet the file exists
Aug 11 14:06:48 <thiago> no, the interpreter must be a known constant for everyone
Aug 11 14:06:49 <odin_> thiago, the interoperability goal would be to not have a binary that should not be running on the runtime system executing in the first place
Aug 11 14:06:53 <thiago> arch-specific, surely
Aug 11 14:07:22 <thiago> your /lib/ld-linux.so.2 can detect the use of SSSE3 instructions and refuse to load
Aug 11 14:07:27 <thiago> the same way that it refuses to load ARM binaries
Aug 11 14:08:17 <odin_> thiago, yes that would work too, but would not be compatible and interoperate with the intended consequence on other linux systems
Aug 11 14:08:34 <thiago> I don't see your point
Aug 11 14:08:37 <thiago> what is the intended consequence?
Aug 11 14:08:47 <odin_> the interoperability goal would be to not have a binary that should not be running on the runtime system executing in the first place
Aug 11 14:08:53 <thiago> an SSSE3-using binary will not run on a Pentium III, period
Aug 11 14:09:13 <thiago> if the ELF header contains a note "this requires ssse3", the loader won't load it
Aug 11 14:09:16 <odin_> well 99.9% would until it might hit code that did SSSE3
Aug 11 14:09:39 <CosmoHill> feck yeah \o/
Aug 11 14:09:44 * CosmoHill dances around
Aug 11 14:10:40 <odin_> what is the note in the ELF header you speak of ?  this is a proposed solution that I indicated to GCC list, so sure you are quoting my own solution back at me now in your argument ?
Aug 11 14:10:50 <mikeleib> ?
Aug 11 14:12:09 <thiago> no
Aug 11 14:12:13 <thiago> this is used in both ARM and IA-64
Aug 11 14:12:21 * thiago will find the Intel document that describes it for IA-64
Aug 11 14:12:30 <odin_> the point about that solution is it would address current and future advances, but will take a few years to integrate (since thats the turn around time)
Aug 11 14:12:49 <odin_> IA-64 is actually Itanium
Aug 11 14:12:59 <thiago> I know
Aug 11 14:13:11 * thiago thinks the Intel engineers working on Itanium had too much time on their hands
Aug 11 14:13:21 * mikeleib wonders why CosmoHill dances
Aug 11 14:13:35 <CosmoHill> mikeleib: I booted grub2 over PXE
Aug 11 14:13:54 <mikeleib> a hacky challenge worthy of a boogy
Aug 11 14:13:56 <TSCHAKeee> thiago: itanium was literally design by committee gone way way way way way amok
Aug 11 14:14:06 <CosmoHill> mikeleib: this is a milestone for me
Aug 11 14:14:12 <CosmoHill> since I will now use this on my cluster
Aug 11 14:14:25 <thiago> TSCHAKeee: it's got the best assembly
Aug 11 14:14:29 <TSCHAKeee> fusing tech by several companies over almost a 15 year period is bound to cause some weird things
Aug 11 14:14:30 <odin_> yes design by committee can be a problem with corporatism
Aug 11 14:15:07 * CosmoHill would like some IA-64 stuff to play around with
Aug 11 14:15:07 <TSCHAKeee> thiago: i agree, the native 64-bit code is fantastic.. it's the ia-32 emulation that reaaaaaaallly blows on it.
Aug 11 14:15:25 <thiago> odin_: http://download.intel.com/design/Itanium/Downloads/245370.pdf section 4.2.4
Aug 11 14:15:44 <thiago> TSCHAKeee: I thought the IA-32 emulation was removed from the chip in the latest Itanium chips
Aug 11 14:16:11 <TSCHAKeee> really? wow. okay :)
Aug 11 14:16:28 <TSCHAKeee> i hadn't dealt with itanium since 2005.
Aug 11 14:17:43 <odin_> thanks for the ABI link, but this obviously doesn't deal with IA-32
Aug 11 14:18:40 <thiago> odin_: ARM equivalent: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.ihi0044d/IHI0044D_aaelf.pdf section 4.4.6
Aug 11 14:21:31 <thiago> odin_: e.g., diff between the assembly generated by arm-none-linux-gnueabi with and without -mfloat-abi=softfp: +       .eabi_attribute 27, 3
Aug 11 14:21:52 <thiago> between -mfloat-abi=softfp and -mfloat-abi=hard: +       .eabi_attribute 28, 1
Aug 11 14:26:04 <Pforce> so where should i ask help for qemu not showing ui on meego handheld sdk
Aug 11 14:26:17 <Pforce> i see the troubleshooting has this, and solution is unknown
Aug 11 14:26:46 <Pforce> i have all the demands met that http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_Enabling_QEMU this page gives me
Aug 11 14:27:14 <Pforce> but this OpenGL renderer string: GeForce GTS 250/PCI/SSE2
Aug 11 14:27:28 <Pforce> seems good output for that should be MESA DRI... something
Aug 11 14:28:12 <odin_> thiago, I think you/someone hinted the ARM ABI changes the way floating data is passed across call boundaries, like calling "pow()" in libm ?  I'm sure its in the PDF which I have saved for later when I experiment
Aug 11 14:28:47 * CosmoHill stops working and starts writing
Aug 11 14:28:57 <thiago> I don't think it's this PDF
Aug 11 14:29:12 <thiago> search for "ARM ABI" and look at the other PDFs
Aug 11 14:29:33 <mikeleib> RTPCS?
Aug 11 14:29:39 <thiago> huh?
Aug 11 14:29:47 <odin_> thiago, the issue with "/bin/ls: No such file or directory" could be addresses with a "fall-back interpreter" this would be a /proc/sys/* in the kernel, which if the ELF .interp is not found on the system but the path of the global kernel variable is found, it would be loaded
Aug 11 14:30:04 <thiago> http://www.arm.com/products/DevTools/ABI.html
Aug 11 14:30:09 <mikeleib> rather arm thumb procedure call standard
Aug 11 14:30:17 <mikeleib> atpcs, I mean
Aug 11 14:30:51 <thiago> direct PDF: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.ihi0042d/IHI0042D_aapcs.pdf
Aug 11 14:31:10 <odin_> thiago, this way the fallback interpretor can be compiled to be most compatible, like with arm1 or arm5 and will diagnose the problem providing a more meaningful error, by comparing runtime platform installed against the binary requirements
Aug 11 14:32:00 <thiago> section 5.5 explains how to pass parameters
Aug 11 14:32:11 <thiago> float-abi=soft or float-abi=softfp are exactly those
Aug 11 14:32:32 <thiago> float-abi=hard is 5.5 plus 6
Aug 11 14:33:48 <GordonS> anyone have any idea what I might need to install to get the "sensors" module of Mobility built?  Just installing "sensorsd" doesn't seem to do it.
Aug 11 14:34:14 <thiago> mikeleib: AAPCS
Aug 11 14:36:38 * mikeleib notes
Aug 11 14:37:03 <thiago> at least we got pass-in-registers by default on x86-64
Aug 11 14:37:26 <thiago> but we should have used registers in an order that is at least easy to remember
Aug 11 14:39:09 <GordonS> "if you're doing assembly, you should just know!"  :-P
Aug 11 14:39:27 <thiago> ARM: r0, r1, r2, r3
Aug 11 14:39:37 <thiago> IA-64: out0, out1, out2, out3, ..., out7
Aug 11 14:39:58 <thiago> x86-64: rdi, rsi, rdx, rcx, r8, r9
Aug 11 14:40:02 <GordonS> true enough, ARM assembler just made sense to me
Aug 11 14:40:10 <GordonS> but x86 is just... er.
Aug 11 14:40:14 <TSCHAKeee> we got our compatibility with x86-64
Aug 11 14:40:15 <GordonS> not looked at x86-64 yet.
Aug 11 14:40:28 <TSCHAKeee> but fucking hell, at the cost of decades of legacy bullshit
Aug 11 14:40:53 <thiago> if the older registers had been renamed according to their encoding in instructions, the order would be:
Aug 11 14:41:03 <GordonS> "a 64-bit rework of a 32-bit upgrade of a 16-bit processor modeled after..."
Aug 11 14:41:04 <thiago> r7, r6, r3, r2, r8, r9
Aug 11 14:41:25 <TSCHAKeee> *facepalm8
Aug 11 14:42:09 <thiago> why couldn't we use rax (r0), rbx (r1), rcx (r2), rdx (r3) at least?
Aug 11 14:42:33 <thiago> move the base pointer from rbx to rsi (r6) or rdi (r7)
Aug 11 14:44:15 <sivang> smoku: how does one makes sure?
Aug 11 14:44:37 <thiago> GordonS: yesterday, I was posting to the internal ML about the consequence of writing the code:
Aug 11 14:44:49 <odin_> I don't think all operations are supported with all registers, rdi, rsi, rbp, rsp can all work with every offset based instruction permutation
Aug 11 14:44:53 <thiago> QString &s = someString().append("foo"); s.append("bar");
Aug 11 14:45:05 <thiago> odin_: you can do everything with any register on x86-64
Aug 11 14:45:19 <thiago> GordonS: I was going to post assembly, but the x86 one was too complex to read
Aug 11 14:45:32 <GordonS> thiago: to be fair, append() is one of the more confusing bits of QString
Aug 11 14:45:41 <thiago> GordonS: the ARM one was very clear, but actually IA-64 won
Aug 11 14:45:45 <sivang> odin_: there was nothing in the BIOS to change, so I just did a cold reboot
Aug 11 14:45:50 <thiago> let me pastebin them
Aug 11 14:45:51 <GordonS> this is where I like the Ruby convention of "append" versus "append!"
Aug 11 14:46:16 <odin_> sivang, if there is nothing in the BIOS, are your sure you have a VT capable CPU? can you "cat /proc/cpuinfo" into a pastebin for another to see ?
Aug 11 14:46:42 <sivang> odin_: of course, I take it VirutalBox's reporting is not something to rely on?
Aug 11 14:47:13 <odin_> sivang, I don't know much about VirtualBox specifically only VMWare and Xen, I hear VB is good
Aug 11 14:47:57 * lcuk still equates VB to mean something else
Aug 11 14:47:57 <GordonS> I've had good luck with VirtualBox
Aug 11 14:48:13 <GordonS> but it is *awful* to run Meego in :-S
Aug 11 14:48:19 <odin_> sivang, well the point about reporting is that if it has been disabled in BIOS you will not see it, since once turned off (which is the default for all BIOS have have had), it requires a BIOS change and save, and often a cold reset to see it
Aug 11 14:48:22 <GordonS> VMware is slow, but at least marginally usable
Aug 11 14:48:27 <GordonS> because of the 3-D acceleration
Aug 11 14:48:34 <GordonS> at least that is my best guess
Aug 11 14:48:42 <Ford_Prefect> Anyone know why I'd see a "no space left on device" about 10 MB into writing the image for the N900 onto a microSD card?
Aug 11 14:48:44 <thiago> GordonS: http://pastebin.com/2KXcZKBE
Aug 11 14:48:56 <thiago> GordonS: which one is more readable?
Aug 11 14:49:03 <smoku> sivang, mobo manual I guess
Aug 11 14:49:36 <GordonS> thiago: well, I know squat about IA-64 assembly...
Aug 11 14:49:42 <thiago> it should be readable
Aug 11 14:49:55 <thiago> especially because I compiled with -mno-pic and -mregister-names
Aug 11 14:50:02 <GordonS> but, I would really have to say ARM
Aug 11 14:50:02 <thiago> (the other two aren't PIC, so it was only fair)
Aug 11 14:50:18 <GordonS> though I can kinda read the x86, after working with DJGPP for so long
Aug 11 14:50:40 <Ford_Prefect> (this is an 8 GB card, so space should not be a problem)
Aug 11 14:50:41 <thiago> the fact that the compiler inserted those ;; makes the code sequence even more readable
Aug 11 14:50:59 <GordonS> indeed
Aug 11 14:51:30 <thiago> the compiler inserted nops and instruction templates though, which aren't necessary for the code flow, so I removed them
Aug 11 14:52:50 * thiago finds it nice that the x86 gcc managed to save the address of the QString temporary in a register, but the ARM and IA-64 gccs didn't
Aug 11 14:53:11 <thiago> wait, the ARM one did (r4)
Aug 11 14:55:34 <thiago> I still get confused sometimes by the src, dst convention of the AT&T syntax
Aug 11 14:55:55 <thiago> hmm... how will that syntax do the new AVX (3- and 4-operand) instructions?
Aug 11 14:56:46 <sivang> odin_: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/248908/
Aug 11 15:00:28 <odin_> sivang, according to Wikipedia X86_virtualization, you need a Core 2 Quad Q8400 or better for Intel VT-x support, search google for "intel cpu finder Q8300" to see the support
Aug 11 15:02:00 <odin_> intel have a habbit or doing that, knocking a few features off the lower end chips in the same series, most annoying when you want to understand it in terms of slow to faster for the Q8x00 series
Aug 11 15:03:56 <odin_> another thing or course, is check your BIOS doesn't have an update, i.e. the stepping you have might have support but your BIOS being released before it does not know about it or something like that
Aug 11 15:10:18 <odin_> borderline, take top hit for "intel cpu finder q8300" and then click left side "Ordering / S Specs / Steppings" and you can see some one SPEC Code does and one SPEC Code does not
Aug 11 15:10:49 <sivang> odin_: ah okay, bad, does the sdk run on AMD?
Aug 11 15:11:56 <odin_> sivang, sorry don't know, all Intel here, but with AMD GPUs
Aug 11 15:12:59 <sivang> odin_: ok, thanks.
Aug 11 15:13:29 <sivang> I guess virtual box does something else or does nto support GL for that matter on this setup
Aug 11 15:30:51 <smyows> 850Mhz is safe overclock to n900?
Aug 11 15:31:00 <Phazorx> any of you guys happened to know where can i get dmidecode compatible with meego?
Aug 11 15:58:13 <abhijeet> hi guys
Aug 11 15:58:26 <abhijeet> i want to run the meego img using the qemu on opensuse
Aug 11 15:58:40 <abhijeet> there is no qemu-gl available on open suse...
Aug 11 15:58:59 <abhijeet> can anyone tell me how can run the qemu emulation on opensuse
Aug 11 15:59:45 <abhijeet> there is only qemu package present at the opensuse repository and it is not working
Aug 11 16:04:49 <pavlix> abhijeet: I'm a meego newbie, but I guess only modified qemu works for meego
Aug 11 16:05:11 <abhijeet> pavlix, have u tried this on opensuse
Aug 11 16:05:55 <w00t_> http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_Building_QEMU_Tools looks relevant
Aug 11 16:07:25 <pavlix> abhijeet: it should be the same just anywhere
Aug 11 16:07:43 <pavlix> w
Aug 11 16:07:55 <w00t_> well, no
Aug 11 16:08:18 <pavlix> w00t_: the wiki search gives about 5-6 likely relevant pages, it's a total mess
Aug 11 16:08:20 <abhijeet> w00t_, that's difficult process :(
Aug 11 16:08:22 <w00t_> looking at that, it implies that qemu (and other bits) need to be patched
Aug 11 16:08:34 <pavlix> maybe http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Emulator_QEMU
Aug 11 16:08:35 <w00t_> pavlix: it's new, so yes, it's going to be a bit turbulent right now
Aug 11 16:08:54 <w00t_> pavlix: might be worth mailing -dev to talk about how to structure it better though
Aug 11 16:09:35 <pavlix> w00t_: it was always hard for me to follow mailing lists :)
Aug 11 16:09:53 <w00t_> pavlix: my advice: get a mail client that supports killing threads
Aug 11 16:09:59 <GordonS> Does anyone have any idea why libmeegotouch's configure script keeps finding /usr/include/qt4 instead of the include path from qmake or QTDIR?
Aug 11 16:10:05 <w00t_> anything that doesn't interest you, kill it, and you don't see it again unless you search for it ;)
Aug 11 16:10:12 <pavlix> w00t_: thanks, I'll try
Aug 11 16:10:21 <GordonS> "which qmake" returns /opt/qt/4.8.0/bin/qmake as it should
Aug 11 16:10:26 <GordonS> and QTDIR is /opt/qt/4.8.0
Aug 11 16:10:29 <abhijeet> w00t_, wow... i ran the meego handset version using xephyrn and it worked on my ati drivers.
Aug 11 16:10:46 <abhijeet> w00t_, but it looks so huge..
Aug 11 16:10:58 <w00t_> abhijeet: huge how?
Aug 11 16:11:30 <abhijeet> w00t_, 9" * 5 "
Aug 11 16:11:44 <pavlix> abhijeet: I was going to try qemu too, but then I got a meego netbook for development
Aug 11 16:12:04 <abhijeet> pavlix,  which os are u runing
Aug 11 16:12:16 <abhijeet> w00t_, " means inch
Aug 11 16:12:25 <w00t_> abhijeet: heh :) cool
Aug 11 16:12:42 <abhijeet> w00t_, is that correct size of the windows?
Aug 11 16:12:58 <w00t_> abhijeet: it works on resolution, so probably, yes
Aug 11 16:13:12 <abhijeet> w00t_, ok...
Aug 11 16:13:24 <w00t_> abhijeet: should be 8xx x 4xx pixels iirc (I forget the exact number)
Aug 11 16:13:25 <GordonS> this is driving me nuts, I can only build the thing by manually modifying a bunch of Makefiles
Aug 11 16:13:31 <pavlix> abhijeet: Fedora for most of my other testing, meego on the dev netbook for meego development, some Debian and CentOS servers, OpenWRT on router :) is this an answer to your question?
Aug 11 16:13:47 <w00t_> GordonS: I guess take a look at what their configure is running..
Aug 11 16:14:02 <GordonS> that's what I'm doing, it's just a slow process :-P
Aug 11 16:14:11 <abhijeet> pavlix, then i think do not have any issue running meego
Aug 11 16:14:41 <abhijeet> pavlix, on suse qemu-gl is missing and i have to build it run it in qemu..
Aug 11 16:15:38 <pavlix> abhijeet: I haven't tried on any other than the netbook with complete meego system... on Fedora, I would most probably have to either emulate, or at least use chroot+xephyr (haven't tried, yet)
Aug 11 16:15:55 <abhijeet> pavlix, ok
Aug 11 16:16:07 <pavlix> abhijeet: I don't have qemu-gl on Fedora either
Aug 11 16:16:30 <abhijeet> but it is mentioned at the meego wiki
Aug 11 16:16:46 <abhijeet> pavlix, check this: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_QEMU
Aug 11 16:16:55 <pavlix> abhijeet: it's downloadable directly from meego
Aug 11 16:16:56 <w00t_> qemu-gl isn't part of qemu
Aug 11 16:17:16 <pavlix> w00t_: is it going to be?
Aug 11 16:17:20 <w00t_> from what I can gather from searching, it was a patch to qemu from some years ago implementing gl, which it looks like meego have picked up on and improved(?)
Aug 11 16:17:40 <abhijeet> ok
Aug 11 16:17:43 <w00t_> i don't know any of this for sure, just what i've come across from searching
Aug 11 16:17:50 <lbt> w00t_: can you help me do irc clever stuff in #obs
Aug 11 16:20:20 <pavlix> ah, well, it seems one can directly install downloaded rpms with yum with dependencies
Aug 11 16:21:15 <aaq> can i ask a question?
Aug 11 16:22:23 <CosmoHill> 1?
Aug 11 16:22:28 <aaq> or are you all angry internet web people?
Aug 11 16:22:33 <CosmoHill> oh wait my bot isn't in here
Aug 11 16:22:52 <CosmoHill> I'm not
Aug 11 16:22:56 <leinir> INTERNIET RAEG!!!111eleventy ;)
Aug 11 16:22:59 <CosmoHill> infact I'm very happy wit what I've done today
Aug 11 16:23:49 <aaq> can i instal from "inside" live cd?
Aug 11 16:23:59 <kkris1> is there a workaround to get meego running on a nvidia chip?
Aug 11 16:24:15 <Ford_Prefect> More N900 questions - (a) why might the backlight not work and (b) how do I reboot? :)
Aug 11 16:24:32 <CosmoHill> aaq: on the meego live image I've found that init 3 is command line, init 4 is the installer and init 5 is the gui / liveimg
Aug 11 16:25:12 <CosmoHill> kkris1: on the forums there is a post about using the meego SDK on an nvidia computer
Aug 11 16:25:33 <kkris> ok, will have look
Aug 11 16:25:34 <aaq> so i cant instal when i am using live cd like ubuntu and others?
Aug 11 16:28:04 <Ford_Prefect> Answer to (b) was "pull out the battery" \o/
Aug 11 16:29:02 <pavlix> aaq: if cosmohill is correct, it's as easy as rebooting into installation (or changing the runlevel, which is not that different)
Aug 11 16:30:44 <aaq> well i can only run it from live cd when i trying to instal it just hangs.
Aug 11 16:31:46 <CosmoHill> aaq: what processor do you have?
Aug 11 16:31:57 <GordonS> kkris: pretty please post that link when you get there??
Aug 11 16:32:03 <CosmoHill> oh wait, you can boot the liveimg but not the installer?
Aug 11 16:32:36 <kkris> i can get x running, but not the meego interface
Aug 11 16:32:51 <CosmoHill> kkris: same
Aug 11 16:32:54 <kkris> with the normal installimage
Aug 11 16:32:56 <aaq> a old ee pc
Aug 11 16:33:06 <CosmoHill> aaq: does it have an intel atom processor?
Aug 11 16:33:20 <aaq> hope so
Aug 11 16:33:35 <CosmoHill> cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep ssse3
Aug 11 16:33:57 <aaq> think its not supported
Aug 11 16:34:02 <CosmoHill> if it returns nothing then meego doesn't support your device
Aug 11 16:34:47 <pavlix> CosmoHill: when you're at it... is it at all possible to run meego on a non-ssse3 device?
Aug 11 16:34:48 <aaq> asus ee701.. its not listed in site
Aug 11 16:35:00 <CosmoHill> yes and no
Aug 11 16:35:29 <CosmoHill> I've got meego running twm on a pentium 4
Aug 11 16:35:48 <CosmoHill> things like yum and zypper don't run as they require ssse3
Aug 11 16:35:50 <Andy80> a very simple question: I'm "inside" MeeGo SDK with ssh, I've successfully compiled a Qt/C++ application. the MeeGo UI is up and running. If I try to start the application I get: cannot connect to X server. How do I have to start it?
Aug 11 16:36:06 <aaq> am i stupid to think it wil work when it is running from live cd?
Aug 11 16:36:10 <w00t_> Andy80: how did you launch xephyr?
Aug 11 16:36:13 <CosmoHill> Andy80: check your DISPLAY variable
Aug 11 16:36:16 <w00t_> (good to see you're making progress btw)
Aug 11 16:36:28 <pavlix> aaq: you are probably not stupid
Aug 11 16:36:34 <CosmoHill> aaq: do you have the GUI and everything?
Aug 11 16:36:40 <aaq> yes
Aug 11 16:36:44 <CosmoHill> hmm
Aug 11 16:36:45 <pavlix> CosmoHill: erm... upstream yum doesn't need ssse3 at all
Aug 11 16:36:46 <Andy80> w00t_: I'm running SDK using QEMU not Xephyr
Aug 11 16:37:03 <CosmoHill> pavlix: it needs something my pentium processor doesn't support
Aug 11 16:37:24 <w00t_> Andy80: ah, right :P forgot.. in that case I don't know the exact solution, but you'll probably need to export DISPLAY=:something, where something is the number X is on
Aug 11 16:37:45 <Andy80> let's try export DISPLAY=:2
Aug 11 16:37:51 <pavlix> CosmoHill: a recompile wouldn't fix it?
Aug 11 16:38:01 <Andy80> mmm.. not
Aug 11 16:38:03 <Andy80> no
Aug 11 16:38:03 <CosmoHill> aaq: I can run the installer but not the liveimg
Aug 11 16:38:15 <CosmoHill> pavlix: sort of
Aug 11 16:38:20 <w00t_> Andy80: are you ssh'd in btw?
Aug 11 16:38:27 <w00t_> (to the SDK)
Aug 11 16:38:30 <CosmoHill> yes it would fix it but I'd really need to recompile the whole of meego for pentium4
Aug 11 16:39:06 <CosmoHill> Andy80: if you are ssh'd in, did you enable X11 forwarding?
Aug 11 16:39:17 <Andy80> w00t_: yes... I'm into the ssh session
Aug 11 16:39:17 <pavlix> CosmoHill: after complete recompilation, everything should work, right?
Aug 11 16:39:24 <w00t_> Andy80: try :0
Aug 11 16:39:25 <CosmoHill> in theory
Aug 11 16:40:04 <Andy80> w00t_, CosmoHill: I try to start my app from inside the ssh session, of course: meego@[meego-handset-sdk]::~/lastgo_meego/LastGo$ ./LastGo
Aug 11 16:40:10 <Andy80> not from my linux machine..
Aug 11 16:40:16 <w00t_> Andy80: yes, I know
Aug 11 16:40:17 <w00t_> Andy80: try :0
Aug 11 16:40:37 <pavlix> CosmoHill: thanks, this was almost the answer I wanted to get ;)
Aug 11 16:40:50 <CosmoHill> pavlix: I want to give it a go some time
Aug 11 16:41:07 <Andy80> w00t_: :0 is the way!!!! :D the only problem... starting my application result in a black screen only :\ no error at all... :(
Aug 11 16:41:19 <w00t_> Andy80: kill mdecorator
Aug 11 16:41:35 <w00t_> if that still has problems, kill mcompositor
Aug 11 16:41:40 <pavlix> CosmoHill: me too, but now there's rather time for paid work :D
Aug 11 16:42:53 <Andy80> w00t_: mmm... killing mdecorator result in MeeGo UI not responding anymore...
Aug 11 16:43:19 <w00t_> Andy80: try mcompositor (and yes, it will cause problems to use the UI normally, since you're killing bits of it - problem is, those bits also cause problems with normal Qt apps atm)
Aug 11 16:43:37 <Andy80> w00t_: ah ok... it reponds now, but the problem is still there. I'll try to kill the other process too, wait...
Aug 11 16:44:24 <Andy80> w00t_: what you mean with "normal Qt apps" ? Qt is Qt :P I re-compiled the application and I expect it to run without any change ;)
Aug 11 16:44:46 <w00t_> Andy80: libmeegotouch apps are not normal Qt apps :-)
Aug 11 16:45:34 <Andy80> w00t_: btw.... killing mcompositor makes the UI to restart.... so I get the same black screen launching my app
Aug 11 16:45:44 <w00t_> hmph
Aug 11 16:45:56 <CosmoHill> pavlix: right about now I should be chilling out as much as possible before my final year
Aug 11 16:45:59 <w00t_> Stskeeps: ^^^ have you had to get around this yet? I guess there's something autostarting stuff
Aug 11 16:46:15 <CosmoHill> instead I've been told there are many problems with the uni cluster so they want mine to be finished soon
Aug 11 16:47:13 <pavlix> CosmoHill: nice
Aug 11 16:47:14 <Andy80> w00t_: anyway.... if you're telling me that MeeGo applications have to use libmeegotouch explicitly... since it's not part of Nokia SDK I suppose it's a bit premature trying to port my application to MeeGo...
Aug 11 16:47:48 <w00t_> they don't
Aug 11 16:47:56 <w00t_> you under no circumstances _have_ to use it
Aug 11 16:48:00 * CosmoHill shakes fist at Windows 2008 and it;'s ability to BSOD on an incorrect BIOS clock
Aug 11 16:48:08 <w00t_> it is just there if you want to (for whatever reason)
Aug 11 16:50:38 * w00t_ mails to meego-dev about it
Aug 11 16:54:27 <_BuBU> Hi
Aug 11 16:54:47 <aaq> it just hangs on installing bootloader
Aug 11 16:55:23 <_BuBU> another device added to the list of MeeGO supported device (with GMA500): http://www.openaos.org/
Aug 11 16:57:56 <pavlix> I was too curious... I'm trying the qemugl thing
Aug 11 16:58:09 <pavlix> but I ended up with black screen with blinking cursor
Aug 11 16:59:16 <pavlix> or, more exactly it's after some time with white screen
Aug 11 17:04:35 <aaq> when can i install meego on my nexus?
Aug 11 17:04:36 <aaq> :)
Aug 11 17:05:38 <thiago> do you have a flasher tool for that device?
Aug 11 17:06:11 <TSCHAKeee> ppl aren't quite grasping the concept of closed hardware...
Aug 11 17:06:14 <TSCHAKeee> ;)
Aug 11 17:07:21 <GordonS> TSCHAKeee: there is no such thing, only hardware you haven't figured out how to open yet :-P
Aug 11 17:07:33 <GordonS> (yes, I know what you mean)  :)
Aug 11 17:07:37 <TSCHAKeee> heheh
Aug 11 17:07:45 <TSCHAKeee> spoken like a man with a crowbar
Aug 11 17:08:00 <thiago> "there's no such thing as A. There's only stuff that's not !A."
Aug 11 17:08:00 <GordonS> or a shaped charge :)
Aug 11 17:08:28 <GordonS> indeed... and it is usually impossible to prove the *non*-existence of something >:->
Aug 11 17:08:32 * thiago found the Aavas pretty closed
Aug 11 17:08:38 <thiago> I bricked two of them
Aug 11 17:09:02 <GordonS> gaah, don't tell me that... that's one of our primary dev platforms >:S
Aug 11 17:09:18 <thiago> I'm missing a flasher tool for it
Aug 11 17:11:03 <thiago> Aug 11 19:10:52 lothlorien kernel: usb 2-5: New USB device found, idVendor=8086, idProduct=e003
Aug 11 17:11:15 * TSCHAKeee has a CDK on pre-order.. thanks for scaring me
Aug 11 17:11:18 <thiago> Aug 11 19:10:52 lothlorien kernel: usb 2-5: Product: MOORESTOWN
Aug 11 17:11:19 <TSCHAKeee> :P :)
Aug 11 17:11:21 <TSCHAKeee> openmoko allll over again
Aug 11 17:11:24 <TSCHAKeee> :P
Aug 11 17:12:04 <csd> that reminds of a question I had: will Meego support/request/require any sort of bootloader, or will that be a HW supplier decision?
Aug 11 17:12:20 <TSCHAKeee> that's a vendor thing
Aug 11 17:12:40 <thiago> it might be that one of the aavas isn't bricked, but the batteries are just drained
Aug 11 17:13:01 <Phazorx> silly question
Aug 11 17:13:09 <dm8tbr> thiago: I thought they had a bootloader that gives you a cdc-acm console?
Aug 11 17:13:11 <Phazorx> how do i switch consoles in meego?
Aug 11 17:13:20 <thiago> dm8tbr: they do
Aug 11 17:13:27 <Phazorx> i mean what would nowrmaly work with alt+F1 ... F8
Aug 11 17:13:28 <CosmoHill> Phazorx: alt + F# for command line
Aug 11 17:13:31 <thiago> dm8tbr: but not if you put it in recovery mode
Aug 11 17:13:37 <CosmoHill> ctrl + alt + F# with X running
Aug 11 17:13:40 <thiago> dm8tbr: that's what I did, now I can't get it out of that
Aug 11 17:13:47 <dm8tbr> thiago: how unfortunate
Aug 11 17:14:05 <Phazorx> CosmoHill: thanks
Aug 11 17:14:25 <thiago> the other device died while I was transmitting stuff to it via USB
Aug 11 17:14:33 <csd> TSCHAKeee: thanks. so that means that upgrading/reinstalling will also be a vendor thing? Does the UX have an "upgrade" something or other and then the vendor plugs in below it, or will even the UI aspect be up to vendors?
Aug 11 17:14:42 <thiago> it opens a console on ttyACM0 and a generic on ttyACM1
Aug 11 17:14:53 <thiago> dd'ed from the second to the flash
Aug 11 17:15:25 <GordonS> Does anyone have any idea why libmeegotouch's configure script keeps finding /usr/include/qt4 instead of the include path from qmake or QTDIR?
Aug 11 17:15:26 <TSCHAKeee> csd: there are reference pieces for all the parts you describe above, but as is reality, vendors can replace these at will...and most likely...will.
Aug 11 17:15:44 <thiago> GordonS: QTDIR isn't used by anything
Aug 11 17:16:11 <GordonS> sure, but I'm doing it as a super-double-extra-just-in-case, since nothing else has worked...
Aug 11 17:16:22 <GordonS> I've even tried renaming the system's qmake and qmake-qt4
Aug 11 17:16:50 <GordonS> and regardless, the Makefiles for corelib, extensions, views, and settings reference /usr/include/qt4
Aug 11 17:17:09 <thiago> GordonS: it does use QTDIR...
Aug 11 17:17:18 <GordonS> sure, but:
Aug 11 17:17:31 <GordonS> which qmake -> /opt/qt/4.8.0/bin/qmake
Aug 11 17:17:41 <GordonS> echo $QTDIR -> /opt/qt/4.8.0
Aug 11 17:17:41 <thiago> is that a pristine build?
Aug 11 17:17:44 <GordonS> yuup
Aug 11 17:17:51 <GordonS> even tried an out-of-source build
Aug 11 17:18:10 <thiago> git clean -f -d -x
Aug 11 17:19:12 <GordonS> trying again...
Aug 11 17:19:39 <GordonS> hmm, suppose I should check Qt itself...
Aug 11 17:19:45 <GordonS> I've seen *that* happen before too
Aug 11 17:20:21 <GordonS> Qt itself is clean :)
Aug 11 17:20:36 <GordonS> no dice, still references /usr/include/qt4
Aug 11 17:21:10 <pavlix> is it possible to use qemugl without kvm?
Aug 11 17:21:12 <GordonS> hmm, that's worrisome: "pkg-config --exists QtDBus"
Aug 11 17:21:17 <GordonS> in configure
Aug 11 17:22:49 <w00t_> that is purely for testing for dependencies, iirc
Aug 11 17:25:33 <csd> TSCHAKeee: thanks
Aug 11 17:25:42 <GordonS> even doesn't work with PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt/4.8.0/lib/pkgconfig
Aug 11 17:31:05 <TSCHAKeee> yikes, handset ux takes longer to boot up than fremantle...
Aug 11 17:31:55 * GordonS is confused as hell
Aug 11 17:32:03 <timeless_mbp> TSCHAKeee: wait a second
Aug 11 17:32:11 <timeless_mbp> something that is not optimized takes longer than a shipping product?
Aug 11 17:32:19 <timeless_mbp> that's unbelievable!
Aug 11 17:32:39 <TSCHAKeee> heheheh
Aug 11 17:32:42 <TSCHAKeee> ;)
Aug 11 17:32:46 <timeless_mbp> how dare someone make an initial public release without first making it the fastest product in the world?!
Aug 11 17:33:29 <TSCHAKeee> does maemo do fast init tricks like swapping in a frozen ram image
Aug 11 17:33:32 <TSCHAKeee> ?
Aug 11 17:33:39 <timeless_mbp> not that trick
Aug 11 17:34:25 <timeless_mbp> myself and a colleague suspect that it wouldn't really help much
Aug 11 17:34:46 <w00t_> probably depends where it's swapped to as well
Aug 11 17:36:09 <GordonS> AHA!  Gotcha!
Aug 11 17:36:12 <timeless_mbp> well, the big risk w/ hibernation is that the data isn't in sync
Aug 11 17:36:17 <timeless_mbp> if it's out of sync, you're in trouble :)
Aug 11 17:36:25 <GordonS> pkg-config --cflags contextsubscriber-1.0   ->   -DQT_SHARED -I/usr/local/include/contextsubscriber -I/usr/include/qt4 -I/usr/include/qt4/QtDBus -I/usr/include/qt4/QtXml -I/usr/include/qt4/QtCore
Aug 11 17:36:39 <GordonS> ratchin' frickin' @%*#@%!
Aug 11 17:39:40 <GordonS> okay, so I'm out-obscured on qmake now.  Is there any way to override what PKGCONFIG does?
Aug 11 17:42:42 <qgil> Stskeeps: ping
Aug 11 17:43:47 <Stskeeps> qgil: pong
Aug 11 17:44:16 <qgil> ref MeeGo slow in the N900, did someone say that it is currently compiled for ARMv5 and it will be much faster when a bug impeding compilation for ARMv7 is fixed?
Aug 11 17:45:08 <Stskeeps> qgil: there's multiple factors: armv7 helps a long way, the other we are investigating what goes on with with bootchart and such
Aug 11 17:45:16 <Stskeeps> qgil: as well as updating the graphics drivers
Aug 11 17:45:47 <qgil> you (or someone) might want to explain about this somewhere, since it is the first reaction of people using the image or watching the video
Aug 11 17:46:33 <qgil> ... or invest the time fixing these problems and show another video with MeeGo running faster in the N900  ;)
Aug 11 17:46:53 <Stskeeps> qgil: agreed - got any suggestions on where to engage those people?
Aug 11 17:47:12 <qgil> your blog with a meego tag aggregated to meego.com?  :)
Aug 11 17:47:32 <Stskeeps> i guess we could make a team blog for this purpose
Aug 11 17:47:40 <qgil> good guess
Aug 11 17:47:41 <Stskeeps> i'll talk to harri about this tomorrow
Aug 11 17:47:55 * Jaffa 'll put it in MWKN too if you embed the YouTube video :)
Aug 11 17:48:03 <qgil> also, anybody interested in multi boot for N900: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5136
Aug 11 17:48:10 <Jaffa> Cos then it can act as both
Aug 11 17:48:10 <qgil> check/vote  :)
Aug 11 17:49:23 <Stskeeps> qgil: there actually exists a community solution for the multiboot problem. right now we do flasher 'load' as it doesn't damage maemo5
Aug 11 17:49:24 <Jaffa> I thought multiboot for N900 was done?
Aug 11 17:49:40 <Stskeeps> qgil: i'll comment on the various solutions available tomorrow
Aug 11 17:49:45 <Jaffa> Ah, right.
Aug 11 17:49:51 <qgil> at least not visible in the documentation available
Aug 11 17:49:57 <Jaffa> I knew it whad been inthe last issue of MWKN :)
Aug 11 17:50:48 <Jaffa> qgil: http://www.mwkn.net/2010/32/devices.html#devices-4
Aug 11 17:51:02 <Stskeeps> qgil: we're a bit vary of replacing kernel from maemo as it might mean people are unable to make calls and such so that was why we stuck to the "you can multiboot with a pc nearby"
Aug 11 17:51:50 <qgil> sure, I file the enhancement request and then you come up with the best solution(s) at any point of time
Aug 11 17:51:55 <Stskeeps> yep
Aug 11 17:52:40 <qgil> Jaffa: I'm a potential MeeGo tester, I don't find info to enable multi boot in the docs, nor in that mwkn url
Aug 11 17:53:26 <Stskeeps> qgil: our usual guide is multiboot though, doesn't harm maemo5
Aug 11 17:54:17 <qgil> If it exists and it's only a problem of lack of / unclear documentation, then great
Aug 11 17:54:56 <Stskeeps> :nod:
Aug 11 17:55:00 <qgil> I can only say that I went through the process of installing MeeGo and I found that I wouldn't have done it if I would not have a spare N900
Aug 11 17:55:26 <Stskeeps> any feedback is welcome :)
Aug 11 17:57:13 <lcuk> patches and thoughts on improving performance even more welcome ;)
Aug 11 17:59:18 <lcuk> Stskeeps, if there was a way to just lower that screen resolution just a touch - enough to barely be noticable but to shave off 20% of the pixels it would give a boost.  640*480 is 4/5 the screen size and saves you 20% of the render time ..
Aug 11 17:59:51 <lcuk> and working out how to operate in alternative resolutions *WILL* be needed when you get other devices onboard
Aug 11 18:00:50 <Stskeeps> lcuk: libmeegotouch already runs in alternative resolutions
Aug 11 18:01:01 <Stskeeps> check devices.conf sometime
Aug 11 18:01:22 <lcuk> sure, but when I asked about this previously (wrt running on alternative Nokia handsets and the like) it was told the apps were designed at a fixed res
Aug 11 18:01:40 <Stskeeps> qt should be more suitable for that, i guess
Aug 11 18:03:30 <lcuk> I know design layouts can be stretched that 20% easily without effecting visuals drastically - I know from 8x0 days that it would boost maximum frame rate then from ~25fps @ 800 to 33fps @640 .
Aug 11 18:04:13 <lcuk> before changing drivers though, just alter the devices.conf to set it to 640 (it will render with a black bar I assume) but should be faster
Aug 11 18:04:56 <lcuk> qgil, i relaly like your twittersheep thing btw :D  went looking at loads of them
Aug 11 18:05:17 <lcuk> yours is so varied with all the followers you have!
Aug 11 18:05:19 <kkris> are there any plans to support nvidia chips in the future?
Aug 11 18:10:35 <qgil> kkris: you need to ask NVidia whether they will open driver or provide support themselves - that or a vendor shipping MeeGo devices with Nvidia inside
Aug 11 18:11:02 <Stskeeps> cool - http://www.openaos.org/ , meego netbook ux on archos 9 tablet
Aug 11 18:11:57 <w00t_> Stskeeps: neat
Aug 11 18:12:13 <Stskeeps> if it runs netbook ux like that, it runs handset ux for sure
Aug 11 18:12:30 <w00t_> qgil: what about noveau?
Aug 11 18:12:41 <w00t_> it's supposedly fairly usable nowdays
Aug 11 18:13:09 <Stskeeps> w00t_: i think noveau's biggest problem is that the ux they want with it most likely doesn't work with it..
Aug 11 18:13:16 <w00t_> Stskeeps: hm?
Aug 11 18:13:29 <Stskeeps> w00t_: 'Any 3-D functionality that might exist is still unsupported. Do not ask for instructions to try it'
Aug 11 18:13:37 <w00t_> Stskeeps: that's not really up to date
Aug 11 18:13:46 <w00t_> people have done all sorts of stuff with it in more recent times
Aug 11 18:13:54 <CosmoHill> you know ctrl + w closes a tab on firefox
Aug 11 18:14:00 <CosmoHill> is there an alternative if your left handed?
Aug 11 18:14:57 <w00t_> Stskeeps: e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sLgtwEAgLo (and that was 2008) from a quick google
Aug 11 18:16:32 <Stskeeps> w00t_: texture from pixmap probably the usual reuqirement
Aug 11 18:16:33 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 11 18:17:17 <w00t_> Stskeeps: to put it another way: pretty sure it can run compiz/etc nowdays, so I can't see why it'd have problems
Aug 11 18:17:27 <w00t_> and stop tempting me to _try_ this and see how I manage dammit
Aug 11 18:17:35 <Stskeeps> w00t_: it's an itch, scratch it
Aug 11 18:17:35 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 11 18:17:48 <w00t_> gnng :P
Aug 11 18:17:58 <vgrade> Stskeeps, log of the A9 bringup, http://wiki.meego.com/images/Archos_A9_instructions.txt
Aug 11 18:18:09 <Stskeeps> vgrade: coool
Aug 11 18:18:10 <Stskeeps> -o
Aug 11 18:18:32 <Stskeeps> meego on more devices for sure, can only help if meego gets 'hip' to port instead of android
Aug 11 18:18:50 <Stskeeps> someone wanted to put it on their ipad or something, heh
Aug 11 18:19:52 <vgrade> the sssseeeee33333 thing needs sorting so more peeps can try
Aug 11 18:24:49 <GAN900> I wish Intel weren't so anti-community with the hardware support
Aug 11 18:25:20 <GAN900> We get that you don't want to "support" your competitors, but it's hurting you unaffiliated contributors.
Aug 11 18:25:22 <RST38h> is it, really>
Aug 11 18:26:03 <RST38h> What prevents you from compiling meego kernel with SSSE3 disabled?
Aug 11 18:26:16 <w00t_> GAN900: i don't think it's quite like that really, I mean, look at the qemu-gl work
Aug 11 18:26:59 <GAN900> Well, everytime the question comes up, some Intel employee jumps in to explain how Intel shouldn't have to support their competitor's products
Aug 11 18:27:07 <GAN900> Which is entirely the wrong way to look at it
Aug 11 18:27:12 <GAN900> and a harmful one.
Aug 11 18:28:14 <auke> ah right lemme start working on a ppc port <gets head smacked by manager>
Aug 11 18:28:15 <Stskeeps> GAN900: no, not really - people can step up to make the support
Aug 11 18:28:31 <Stskeeps> it is fair cos at any given feature, someone has to take the heavy lifting
Aug 11 18:28:39 <RST38h> GAN: But why can;t you compile a meego kernel without Intel's participation?
Aug 11 18:28:49 <RST38h> Isn't it just a matter of a #define?
Aug 11 18:28:50 <auke> GAN900: it's not enough that we put all this time into an open source project, but we now have to do the work for other companies too?
Aug 11 18:29:04 <Stskeeps> when a new feature enhancement is made, it's evaluated if intel has resources to do it, if nokia does, if anyone else wants to do it..
Aug 11 18:29:07 <Stskeeps> etc
Aug 11 18:29:12 <GAN900> Stskeeps, sure they can
Aug 11 18:29:12 <Stskeeps> it's pretty much documented i believe
Aug 11 18:29:24 <auke> GAN900: also, how do you expect intel to do all the QA for non-intel hardware?
Aug 11 18:29:41 <GAN900> but the fact that the support isn't there lowers adoption rates and increases barriers to entry
Aug 11 18:29:51 <GAN900> auke, completely the wrong perspective.
Aug 11 18:30:03 <auke> if you want to improve, why don't you go to <other companies> and get them to help?
Aug 11 18:30:04 <GAN900> It's not about your competitors, it's about your contributors..
Aug 11 18:30:11 <Stskeeps> contributors are more than welcome to do the work
Aug 11 18:30:11 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 11 18:30:12 <auke> that's not true
Aug 11 18:30:22 <auke> open source works in the market place because it equals the playing field
Aug 11 18:30:31 <auke> that means, everyone has the same entry barriers etc
Aug 11 18:30:36 * RST38h still does not understand what prevents non-intel people from compiling kernel with ssse3 turned off
Aug 11 18:30:39 <auke> and everyone needs to do their part to be part of it
Aug 11 18:30:54 <auke> people who decide not to be part of it are left out
Aug 11 18:31:13 <auke> we're not here to hobby around
Aug 11 18:31:16 <CosmoHill> http://www.collegehumor.com/article:1802364
Aug 11 18:31:21 <GAN900> More people using MeeGo benefits everybody
Aug 11 18:31:22 <CosmoHill> you will read, and you will enjoy :3
Aug 11 18:31:23 <auke> we want to create a healthy ecosystem going forward
Aug 11 18:31:24 <RST38h> auke: So, what are you here for?
Aug 11 18:31:29 <GAN900> Fewer people hurts everybody
Aug 11 18:31:43 <Stskeeps> GAN900: ubuntu hasn't gotten to where it's at without people contributing
Aug 11 18:32:02 <auke> RST38h: money, so I can feed my kids
Aug 11 18:32:04 <GAN900> When the barriers to entry are high for no reason, you're shooting yourself in the foot
Aug 11 18:32:09 <GAN900> Stskeeps, also missing the point.
Aug 11 18:32:17 <auke> ah, but there's a good reason ssse3 is required
Aug 11 18:32:26 <auke> otherwise atom would be very mediocre
Aug 11 18:32:30 <RST38h> auke: Honest answer.
Aug 11 18:32:50 <auke> RST38h: I've been working on open source since 1999 or so, now I just get paid for it
Aug 11 18:32:58 * RST38h doubts ssse3 makes any difference to atom's mediocrity
Aug 11 18:33:06 <auke> huge difference
Aug 11 18:33:10 <RST38h> in some very special cases, like video codec, maybe
Aug 11 18:33:15 <RST38h> in general, no
Aug 11 18:33:20 <Stskeeps> GAN900: no, i'm not missing the point really - resources are scarce and an itch is the best way to motivate people
Aug 11 18:33:26 <auke> power savings, huge
Aug 11 18:33:34 <RST38h> got numbers?
Aug 11 18:33:35 <Stskeeps> just look at GMA500 support. people were upset it was missing, people went ahead and started making .ks'es so it worked!
Aug 11 18:33:37 <auke> it's not just one aspect
Aug 11 18:33:38 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 11 18:33:44 <auke> RST38h: can't post numbers without legal approval
Aug 11 18:33:57 <CosmoHill> Atom is a low performance processor, so they should do everything they can to get the best performace out of it
Aug 11 18:34:10 <RST38h> auke: I see.
Aug 11 18:34:51 <RST38h> ...so, one would think that if ssse3 gave such a wonderful advantage to Meego, the numbers would already be made public
Aug 11 18:34:52 <GAN900> Stskeeps, not when the result is "Huh, well, that doesn't work. Guess I'll go play with Android."
Aug 11 18:35:04 <RST38h> Meego-specific numbers of course, not the overall stuff
Aug 11 18:35:17 <auke> it's not just ssse3, also the atom gcc optimizations
Aug 11 18:35:23 <GAN900> auke, you MIGHT Have a point if MeeGo were in a position of market leverage
Aug 11 18:35:31 <Jaffa> CosmoHill: Ctrl-W works perfectly for me (lef-handed) on my QWERTY keyboard...
Aug 11 18:35:44 <GAN900> but it's not, so you're just losing contributors to things that do work--like Android.
Aug 11 18:35:57 <auke> we won't get hardware vendors interested in meego unless it outperforms <others>
Aug 11 18:36:05 <RST38h> auke: The SSSE3 requireent is the major problem for the community, not the gcc enhancement
Aug 11 18:36:06 <CosmoHill> Jaffa: i either take my hand off the mouse and press it or use my right hand and strech over the keyboard
Aug 11 18:36:07 <Stskeeps> GAN900: except they aren't really able to adapt into the android ecosystems anyway
Aug 11 18:36:08 <auke> so, meego needs to perform best on all hardware
Aug 11 18:36:13 <auke> including atom, arm
Aug 11 18:36:22 <RST38h> auke: amd?
Aug 11 18:36:30 <Stskeeps> GAN900: find people who honestly get patches into android.
Aug 11 18:36:33 <auke> ppc sparc w/e
Aug 11 18:36:38 <slaine> auke, There where tests at the time of Moblin 2.1 that showed it performed poorly compared to other generic distros on the same hardware
Aug 11 18:36:39 <RST38h> auke: older (pre-ssse3) intel cpus?
Aug 11 18:36:55 <auke> RST38h: who's going to sell hardware like that?
Aug 11 18:37:04 <vgrade> as i understand it its not just the kernel its all the packages which need rebuilding
Aug 11 18:37:06 <RST38h> auke: Intel has sold quite a lot
Aug 11 18:37:13 <auke> I don't think you get it. meego isn't for your junkers!
Aug 11 18:37:16 <slaine> I don't think it gives an over all OS benefit. It certainly would help GL and video etc
Aug 11 18:37:19 <RST38h> auke: And now, people cannot run Meego on this geniune Intel hardware
Aug 11 18:37:33 <GAN900> But what do I know, clearly you guys have it all figured out.
Aug 11 18:37:35 <RST38h> auke: Because somebody insists on using ssse3.
Aug 11 18:37:40 <auke> repeat after me: meego isn't for junkers/clunkers
Aug 11 18:37:47 * RST38h sighs
Aug 11 18:37:48 <auke> :)
Aug 11 18:37:53 <slaine> RST38h: can't we make a 686 build with OBS ?
Aug 11 18:38:03 <CosmoHill> meego isn't for...heeeeyyyy
Aug 11 18:38:05 <Jaffa> CosmoHill: Ah, I use my mouse in my right hand so I can type with my left or write on paper
Aug 11 18:38:11 <auke> CosmoHill: haha
Aug 11 18:38:18 <RST38h> So, you are telling me my somewhat dated Merom is a clunker while your Atom-whatever is a shining pinnacle of performance?
Aug 11 18:38:24 * CosmoHill lifes off throw outs
Aug 11 18:38:26 <CosmoHill> *lives
Aug 11 18:38:30 <slaine> My Pentium-M 1.7 out performs my Atom 1.6 hands down
Aug 11 18:38:30 <slaine> it's not a clunker
Aug 11 18:38:32 <GAN900> Stskeeps, I got the smack down on that point at FLS last year.
Aug 11 18:38:43 <Stskeeps> slaine: as i continously say.. problem isn't the core os, it's what the apps are built for
Aug 11 18:38:47 <RST38h> slaine: This is what I am trying to figure out: why don't people compile ssse3-free kernel without Intel's participation?
Aug 11 18:38:54 <auke> RST38h: ideally, perhaps you have a point. but that point doesn't get companies interested in investing....
Aug 11 18:38:58 <CosmoHill> Stskeeps: i have proof of this
Aug 11 18:39:03 <CosmoHill> I have core meego running on a P4
Aug 11 18:39:14 <RST38h> slaine: Same for my Centrino2, 3x Atom's performance
Aug 11 18:39:35 <auke> sure I run meego on a core2duo, and an i7, and...
Aug 11 18:39:53 <slaine> Stskeeps: I was talking about moblin 2.1 which wouldn't even boot on non ssse3 compat cpu's
Aug 11 18:39:57 <Stskeeps> slaine: ah
Aug 11 18:40:03 <Jaffa> RST38h: Perhaps - and this is a Devil's Advocate theory - because the people who defend Intel's right to not do it do it so vociferously, and so quickly, and are so senior in the MeeGo project they think it means *MeeGo* doesn't want to support that h/w.
Aug 11 18:40:05 <Stskeeps> slaine: i still kinda think meego shouldn't either
Aug 11 18:40:14 <slaine> it's performance was worse than most generic distros
Aug 11 18:40:29 <slaine> which I was highly surprised at
Aug 11 18:40:40 <RST38h> auke: So, this beautiful open source project that is so much based on the OSS, where "people" are supposed to work on it for "freedom", will shun the same people in favor of potential corporate investors?
Aug 11 18:40:44 <CosmoHill> Jaffa: I'm right handed but I tend to use computers left handed depending on how much space is on the desk
Aug 11 18:40:44 <auke> slaine: if meego underperforms any distro, file a bugzilla
Aug 11 18:40:51 <Stskeeps> freedom doesn't come without work.
Aug 11 18:40:52 <auke> slaine: I promise you it will get looked at
Aug 11 18:40:54 <slaine> auke, I've not bothered testing
Aug 11 18:41:04 <slaine> recently that is
Aug 11 18:41:08 <slaine> I just use it :)
Aug 11 18:41:16 <RST38h> auke: (and I am not even sure how one would persuade investors that they absolutely need ssse3)
Aug 11 18:41:47 <slaine> I'm hoping to have some scope to look at this over the coming weeks
Aug 11 18:41:52 <slaine> the generic 686 build that is
Aug 11 18:41:59 <slaine> I've a legit requirement
Aug 11 18:42:05 <auke> RST38h: we can't play fair, if you want us(intel) to invest a ton of money into infrastucture which is not going to benefit intel hardware
Aug 11 18:42:13 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: i still maintain that if we have had requirements going from the start and the process shown, that each feature has to have people responsible for implementation and QA
Aug 11 18:42:14 <vgrade> RST38h, noone said you coould not do it, just that intel would not
Aug 11 18:42:14 <RST38h> Jaffa: What a devious suggestion! I think you should be ashamed to even think about this!
Aug 11 18:42:25 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: then we'd be perceiving things in a lot different way
Aug 11 18:42:27 <auke> RST38h: bottom line is that we try to be fair, but you can't just give intel all the blame
Aug 11 18:42:34 <auke> without intel there wouldn't have been a meego
Aug 11 18:42:40 <slaine> nod
Aug 11 18:42:42 <slaine> here here
Aug 11 18:42:44 <lcuk> auke?   huh not benefit intel people - most of the worlds computers run intel hardware.  brand confidence should mean something.
Aug 11 18:42:51 <RST38h> it would be called Redhat and Maemo, indeed...
Aug 11 18:43:10 <Stskeeps> if anyone is doubting that intel actually does try to play fair, we've been doing MeeGo ARM on what's essentially intel sponsored hardware.
Aug 11 18:43:27 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: I think you're right - because others would be able to point to those same folk arguing in favour of h/w agnosticism (if the performance is there), but recognising the resource constraints on the current set of contributors.
Aug 11 18:43:30 <slaine> I strongly believe the official releases should be targeted at the Atoms and optimized as much as possible to make that shine
Aug 11 18:43:39 <CosmoHill> look at it from a consumers point of view, if you have a computer with meego on it, it would have been pre-installed by the manufactorer
Aug 11 18:43:43 <lcuk> Stskeeps, meego arm - are you putting the netbook image onto n900?
Aug 11 18:43:54 <Stskeeps> lcuk: meego arm is entire core plus others.
Aug 11 18:44:01 <MeOnTheGo> hello, i am a neophyte in btrfs (meego actually). i wanted to know the developer's perspective towards having btrfs as default fs in meego
Aug 11 18:44:02 <slaine> I'd just think that developers that could contribute are more likely to have a wider range of hardware to work on
Aug 11 18:44:07 <CosmoHill> most of us are just annoyed we can't run meego on what we have because we're geeks and like new things
Aug 11 18:44:08 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: have you seen the featuretracker btw?
Aug 11 18:44:12 <lcuk> so I should be able to run the netbook image on an arm chipset?
Aug 11 18:44:22 <slaine> So we should be able to make a 686 build using mic2 or something
Aug 11 18:44:26 <Stskeeps> lcuk: we haven't built netbook on arm, i did at some point but i didn't want to bother fixing clutter.
Aug 11 18:44:30 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: Ah, so we should be "grateful" that Intel lets us into this party. There's a perception that Nokia is the junior partner, y'know.
Aug 11 18:44:43 <auke> I'm out for lunch, later folks :)
Aug 11 18:44:48 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: Indeed, but with so much going on I've not been able to find time to find a bugbear and contribute.
Aug 11 18:44:54 <MeOnTheGo> sir, i couldn't install netbook meego on vmware
Aug 11 18:45:12 <CosmoHill> why do I feel a meeting coming on
Aug 11 18:45:28 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: no, just saying that it's sometimes unfair to say intel isn't trying to play fair.
Aug 11 18:46:26 <vgrade> slaine, the point surely is that you can try and buld it for you junkers, you have the source, the OBS
Aug 11 18:46:29 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: I'm not saying Intel isn't rrying t play fair - my theory was that some people might *perceive* Intel are actively defending their turf when defending the decision to focus resources where they're currently being focused.
Aug 11 18:46:41 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: :nod:
Aug 11 18:46:53 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: perceptions are always difficult. just look at tmo atm.
Aug 11 18:46:54 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 11 18:47:11 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: http://bugs.meego.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=3209&hide_resolved=1
Aug 11 18:47:27 <Stskeeps> each of these will have someone it's assigned to, and a QA contact.
Aug 11 18:47:29 <slaine> vgrade: indeed, but the community OBS is only just coming onstream, it wasn't something planned from the beginning (icbw)
Aug 11 18:47:43 <Stskeeps> if you want to have a feature roadmapped, provide those two
Aug 11 18:47:43 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 11 18:48:02 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: I *think* I could go to every single one of the threads asking about non-SSSSSSSSSSE3 support and find very defensive messages about "why should Intel..." rather than "The MeeGo project aims to be hardware agnostic, however we currently don't have the hardware resources (OBS), QA mechanisms or staff to work on it. Patches and contributions wlecome."
Aug 11 18:48:16 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: not a bad example
Aug 11 18:48:19 <slaine> I tried and failed to build moblin 2.0 and 2.1 from source due to poor packing. Many others where in a similar boat
Aug 11 18:48:22 <vgrade> im buliding on the maemo OBS at the moment, see lbt, so all the tools are there
Aug 11 18:48:26 <slaine> I'll be trying again in the next week or so
Aug 11 18:48:27 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: raise it with dawn?
Aug 11 18:48:37 <CosmoHill> Jaffa: if it's so common the threads should just be delete and leave the orginal or an annoycement
Aug 11 18:48:40 <slaine> vgrade: yes, I have an account too, just haven't had the time of late
Aug 11 18:48:41 <Stskeeps> to point people in how things are supposed to be done and help perceptions
Aug 11 18:50:47 <GAN900> MeeGo people are certainly not helping MeeGo's perception.
Aug 11 18:50:50 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: Yeah, I'll try and raise it with DawnFoster (damn, she's offline right now)
Aug 11 18:51:00 <Jaffa> Is there a log for #meego I can link to? :)
Aug 11 18:51:08 <Stskeeps> yes
Aug 11 18:51:09 <Jaffa> Got it.
Aug 11 18:51:13 <lcuk> did anybody have experience with the ubuntu moblin remix and what modifications were made to the moblin packages to get it running?
Aug 11 18:51:13 <vgrade> sorry, to start that one over again, it was just to maybe spark a organised community non sssssssssseeeeeeeeee33333333 build
Aug 11 18:51:13 <Jaffa> Ta mgedmin
Aug 11 18:51:24 <Stskeeps> GAN900: technical people are usually horrible at communication.
Aug 11 18:51:39 <slaine> vgrade: it's been a thorny subjects for a long time
Aug 11 18:53:07 <vgrade> so anyone want to get involved?
Aug 11 18:53:23 <CosmoHill> sounds good
Aug 11 18:55:06 <Jaffa> auke: Nice use of topical maths/CS reference in dealing with reply-to munging :)
Aug 11 18:55:06 <GAN900> Stskeeps, clearly.
Aug 11 18:55:07 <lcuk> vgrade, whats needed - servers? time? planning? or just someone to add a switch to the generic obs?
Aug 11 18:55:21 <Stskeeps> just be considerate of meego community obs resources, a full rebuild is a bitch
Aug 11 18:55:21 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 11 18:55:46 <vgrade> lcuk, not entirely sure but all those things probably :)
Aug 11 18:56:17 <slaine> vgrade: yes
Aug 11 18:56:17 <slaine> as I mentioned before, I'd planned on starting something in the coming week or two
Aug 11 18:56:17 <slaine> so if there's other interested then that'd be greayt
Aug 11 18:56:17 <slaine> s/greayt/great/
Aug 11 18:56:17 <infobot> slaine meant: so if there's other interested then that'd be great
Aug 11 18:56:18 <slaine> lcuk, the other distro's just packed up the the mutter plugins and created  gdm session to launch moblin desktop's
Aug 11 18:56:18 <slaine> well, mutter-moblin plugin and the moblin-panel apps
Aug 11 18:56:43 <slaine> thanks Stskeepz
Aug 11 18:56:52 <lcuk> slaine, would the same patches work now - just with renamed packages
Aug 11 18:56:56 <lcuk> they have to exist somewhere
Aug 11 18:57:00 <slaine> no patches where needed
Aug 11 18:58:24 * CosmoHill downloads a src.rpm and tries to compile
Aug 11 18:58:24 <lcuk> there was a big announcement back end of last year from canonical and dell about it
Aug 11 18:58:24 <lcuk> ahhh slaine, cool
Aug 11 18:58:24 <lcuk> http://www.ubuntu.com/news/canonical-dell-deliver-ubuntu-moblin-remix
Aug 11 18:58:24 <CosmoHill> I knew it wouldn't be that simple >.<
Aug 11 18:58:25 <lcuk> CosmoHill, better than my attempt, it opened in notepad
Aug 11 18:58:25 <nacho> hey guys
Aug 11 18:58:25 <nacho> do you know how am I suppose to play mp3s?
Aug 11 18:58:33 <nacho> packagekit says that the mpeg plugin for gstreamer doesn't exists
Aug 11 18:58:42 <nacho> and I could find anything with yum
Aug 11 18:58:52 <nacho> am I suppose to add any other source repository?
Aug 11 18:59:16 <CosmoHill> lcuk: if it opened notepad on my headless linux server I'd be very confused
Aug 11 18:59:16 <slaine> Fedora just made an rpm out of the source
Aug 11 18:59:16 <slaine> Fedora will have a Meego spin for F14
Aug 11 18:59:16 <slaine> The way the X session works on the netbook is, X -> mutter WM -> mutter-moblin plugin (toolbar and panel support)
Aug 11 18:59:26 <lcuk> CosmoHill, :D
Aug 11 18:59:49 <CosmoHill> looks like /usr/lib/rpm/macro has been customised
Aug 11 18:59:56 <CosmoHill> (just a guess)
Aug 11 18:59:58 <slaine> You then have moblin-panel-myzone, moblin-panel-blah run and they connect via dbus to mutter-moblin
Aug 11 19:00:18 <slaine> On Moblin/Meego, uxlaunch starts X and triggers loading mutter and the plugin and panels
Aug 11 19:00:37 <slaine> For an other distro, you just need to make a standard .desktop session file
Aug 11 19:00:45 <slaine> that does the same
Aug 11 19:00:54 <lcuk> cool
Aug 11 19:00:56 <vgrade> ok guys I'll open a wiki page on non SSSSEEEE3 and make an announcment in a couple of days after I have done some research
Aug 11 19:01:04 <slaine> cool
Aug 11 19:01:12 <lcuk> ^2
Aug 11 19:01:17 <slaine> :)
Aug 11 19:01:24 <CosmoHill> timeless_mbp: http://wakaba.c3.cx/s/apps/unarchiver.html << you might like
Aug 11 19:01:31 <CosmoHill> allows you to unpack src.rpm files
Aug 11 19:01:43 <lcuk> nacho, dunno about the mp3 issue
Aug 11 19:01:49 <w00t_> Stskeeps/others, re: communication..
Aug 11 19:01:53 <lcuk> I would have thought it would be included though?
Aug 11 19:02:00 <w00t_> it's kind of understandable why defensive attitudes crop up, though
Aug 11 19:02:02 <nacho> I thought so
Aug 11 19:02:10 <nacho> but I'm not able to play any mp3
Aug 11 19:02:22 <w00t_> 08/11@19:24:50 <GAN900> I wish Intel weren't so anti-community with the hardware support
Aug 11 19:02:28 <nacho> also when I try to play it with totem packagekit is run and it is not able to find any plugin
Aug 11 19:02:40 <Jaffa> w00t_: Chicken/egg?
Aug 11 19:02:47 <GAN900> ^
Aug 11 19:03:03 <GAN900> The responses were defensive fro' the offing.
Aug 11 19:03:13 <Jaffa> w00t_: But it won't help, true.
Aug 11 19:03:37 <slaine> nacho, you need to have the codec's for mp3 installed
Aug 11 19:03:55 <slaine> due to licensing issue, intel won't be able to ship them.
Aug 11 19:04:14 <lcuk> *facepalm*
Aug 11 19:04:31 <CosmoHill> hey guys
Aug 11 19:04:54 <CosmoHill> i think it's possible to compile and install meego-rpm-config-1.2.3.src.rpm on our computers
Aug 11 19:05:23 <CosmoHill> this would then setup RPM macros which in theory would allow us to compile other RPM packages
Aug 11 19:05:35 <slaine> ?
Aug 11 19:05:47 <lcuk> CosmoHill, Meego-From-Scratch? :D
Aug 11 19:05:50 <slaine> You'd end up linking against local libs etc.
Aug 11 19:06:36 <Stskeeps> slaine: or anyone, for that sake..
Aug 11 19:07:08 <slaine> true
Aug 11 19:07:09 <CosmoHill> slaine: hmm maybe, but at least it would compile
Aug 11 19:07:23 <slaine> What's the problem you're having CosmoHill ?
Aug 11 19:07:45 <slaine> Are you wanting to package meego rpms on a non-meego os ?
Aug 11 19:07:47 <CosmoHill> I'd like to be able to recompile the meego src.rpm files
Aug 11 19:08:05 <slaine> You can only do that if you have the appropriate deps
Aug 11 19:08:19 <Stskeeps> you know, there's not really anything stopping people from providing repo's with the right things
Aug 11 19:08:23 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 11 19:08:25 <CosmoHill> or if you compile them in the right order :)
Aug 11 19:08:32 <slaine> and the spec files for meego are for meego, not any other distro
Aug 11 19:08:49 <CosmoHill> slaine: I build my distro from source
Aug 11 19:08:51 <slaine> Cosmohill, I'd some scripts that handled doing the whole thing for moblin
Aug 11 19:09:03 <slaine> I know
Aug 11 19:09:10 <CosmoHill> so i could configure it like meego :)
Aug 11 19:09:21 <slaine> wot lcuk said
Aug 11 19:09:27 <CosmoHill> :3
Aug 11 19:09:32 <Stskeeps> w00t_: people get defensive when being attacked over and over again
Aug 11 19:09:36 <CosmoHill> that wasn't me >.>
Aug 11 19:09:42 <w00t_> Stskeeps: yup, my point
Aug 11 19:14:37 <nacho> slaine, the problem is that such code doesn't exists
Aug 11 19:14:53 * lcuk goes watching England vs Hungary
Aug 11 19:14:59 <CosmoHill> oh crap
Aug 11 19:15:05 <CosmoHill> Redding are playing today
Aug 11 19:15:14 <lbt> Jaffa, Stskeeps etc ... on the ssse3 http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2010/08/are-intel-subverting-meegocom.html
Aug 11 19:15:27 <lbt> vgrade: ^^^
Aug 11 19:16:06 <lbt> and slaine auke
Aug 11 19:16:28 <lbt> I'd appreciate editorial comments ... I think it's a bit strong in places :)
Aug 11 19:17:33 <vgrade> what a coincidence :)
Aug 11 19:17:36 <lcuk> lbt, reading whilst football on, Postition
Aug 11 19:18:01 <lbt> vgrade: I started drafting 3 weeks ago... it's a bitch to write without being offensive
Aug 11 19:18:15 <lbt> and I've been a tad busy :)
Aug 11 19:18:32 <Jaffa> lbt: timely
Aug 11 19:18:50 <Stskeeps> lbt, i kinda think the 'central' obs situation follows same pattern as with features/requirements.. provide resources (people, donations, machines) and it's possible given that it doesn't conflict with other parts of roadmap
Aug 11 19:19:47 <lbt> I think I say something like that in the "Counters" section ...
Aug 11 19:19:51 <Stskeeps> :nod:
Aug 11 19:19:56 <RST38h> mhmmm
Aug 11 19:20:13 <Stskeeps> having a feature requires you to take responsibility for it
Aug 11 19:20:15 <lcuk> lbt, title and intro are the only "strong" bits, but its attention grabbing.  as usual for you david, considered and spot on.
Aug 11 19:20:42 <lbt> Stskeeps: that's a good point ...
Aug 11 19:21:09 <lbt> I feel I say "them" too much :)
Aug 11 19:21:24 <Stskeeps> you can suggest a feature as a user, but someone has to take responsibility for implementation and QA (and other things needed)
Aug 11 19:21:46 <Stskeeps> and commit to that feature to keep it working
Aug 11 19:21:54 <lbt> OTOH isn't that an essential part of the MeeGo offering to "the market"
Aug 11 19:21:54 <Stskeeps> .. but that's just my sleepy view
Aug 11 19:22:05 <lcuk> lbt, Stskeeps - go back 12 months and consider Mer on bigger machines.  that is how meego should be.
Aug 11 19:22:50 <lbt> Asking for an Athlon (or whatever, Nvidia?) build would be a problem.... but a "reference build"?
Aug 11 19:23:02 <RST38h> lbt: so what is the problem? install an independent build system somewhere and rebuild the whole thing sans ssse3, no?
Aug 11 19:23:05 <lbt> one that uses Mesa maybe?
Aug 11 19:23:09 <Stskeeps> lcuk, having proper process and commitment is needed - i mean, we'll have the nice view of seeing how modern product processes works in the open
Aug 11 19:23:22 <Stskeeps> and exactly why companies want support contracts ;)
Aug 11 19:23:40 <lbt> RST38h: it's an option ... but I feel it would be more inclusive for MeeGo to support a broader base
Aug 11 19:23:53 <lbt> clearly the community OBS can now do that
Aug 11 19:24:07 <Stskeeps> lbt, it also bends back to if meego is a os for others to build on or a os for people to use..
Aug 11 19:24:11 <Stskeeps> which is a hot topic, too
Aug 11 19:24:37 <lbt> yes... "Is MeeGo a platform or a product" ?
Aug 11 19:24:49 <RST38h> lbt: I do think that the best way to solve these problems is to set up infrastructure completely independent from both Intel and Nokia
Aug 11 19:25:05 <lbt> RST38h: the meego.com community one is pretty much that
Aug 11 19:25:06 <Stskeeps> RST38h: who are you calling for a big obs farm to accomplish this?
Aug 11 19:25:06 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 11 19:25:22 <RST38h> lbt: not really, it is owned by corpses
Aug 11 19:25:37 <RST38h> lbt: even more so than maemo.org
Aug 11 19:25:45 <lbt> well yes... and me and neils are running it
Aug 11 19:25:57 <slaine> Moblin suffered heavily from the platform or product issue
Aug 11 19:26:02 <slaine> did maemo ?
Aug 11 19:26:07 <Stskeeps> slaine: it was a product
Aug 11 19:26:08 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Isn't it possible to run obs on a locla machine, build the whole system, and make binaries available to everyone?
Aug 11 19:26:18 <Stskeeps> RST38h: sure, it just takes time and bandwidth
Aug 11 19:26:37 <slaine> That's essentially what my make-moblin scripts did
Aug 11 19:26:48 <lbt> RST38h: and we have 3 16core machines with 6Tb of disk on OSU... but if you have a spare box...
Aug 11 19:27:19 * CosmoHill 's ears prick up
Aug 11 19:27:36 <CosmoHill> super computers you say?
Aug 11 19:27:39 <slaine> they're not being thrown out CosmoHill, so no, you can't have one for your lan
Aug 11 19:27:45 <vgrade> :)
Aug 11 19:27:48 <RST38h> lbt: neither you nor niels are intel employees, so why not build ssse3-free meego rather than complain?
Aug 11 19:27:51 <lcuk> heh
Aug 11 19:28:05 <Stskeeps> slaine: i wonder if it's time to start that discussion again though
Aug 11 19:28:07 <lbt> RST38h: because I want MeeGo to do the right thing
Aug 11 19:28:33 <RST38h> lbt: and that is...?
Aug 11 19:28:34 <Stskeeps> slaine: it's quite simple really. is MeeGo a platform to build upon, or something for users (affects marketing, etc)
Aug 11 19:28:35 <lbt> anyone on the OBS beta can import and build MeeGo
Aug 11 19:29:02 <lcuk> can they share it with the world though?
Aug 11 19:29:06 <Stskeeps> slaine: downside is that platform hype sometimes originates from user perception..
Aug 11 19:29:08 <lbt> RST38h: see the Proposal section :
Aug 11 19:29:09 <lbt> Add a 'generic x86' target to the MeeGo.com build
Aug 11 19:29:10 <lbt> architectures.
Aug 11 19:29:11 <slaine> lbt, I think a generic x86 release is in the realm of the community though
Aug 11 19:29:32 <slaine> I think Intel are right to pitch the Atom as entry level approach
Aug 11 19:29:35 <lbt> I think MeeGo should support it
Aug 11 19:29:37 <slaine> for their reference release
Aug 11 19:29:50 <lbt> and the community should spin it to include ATI gfx
Aug 11 19:29:58 <slaine> fair point
Aug 11 19:30:32 <lbt> I would support a reference release using software rendering
Aug 11 19:30:33 <slaine> Stskeeps: Moblin certainly had a split personality in that regards
Aug 11 19:30:48 <Stskeeps> slaine: dawn said she had noticed the same problem in meego
Aug 11 19:31:00 <lcuk> lbt, depending on the specific x86 that may not even be noticable
Aug 11 19:31:23 <Stskeeps> slaine: like, the schizophrenic marketing
Aug 11 19:31:35 <slaine> I ran moblin 2.1 UI from Fedora and Ubuntu distro's on Celeron-M with 855GM graphics, was fine
Aug 11 19:31:41 <slaine> Stskeeps: exactly
Aug 11 19:32:12 <slaine> One part of the organization that's dealing with ODM's is pitching it as a platform, the part dealing with OEM's is pitching it as product
Aug 11 19:32:49 <slaine> Dell had their own tiered repo's for their moblin release for example
Aug 11 19:32:55 <TSCHAKeee> yup
Aug 11 19:32:56 <slaine> and that was the plan at the time
Aug 11 19:33:05 <TSCHAKeee> which had working poulsbo stuff long before anyone else
Aug 11 19:33:08 <TSCHAKeee> fsckers
Aug 11 19:33:11 <TSCHAKeee> :P
Aug 11 19:33:26 <lbt> slaine: another comment ... how many times have you seen "MeeGo *is* the community" ?
Aug 11 19:33:34 <slaine> erm
Aug 11 19:33:46 <TSCHAKeee> i see that comment said when it is convienient to say it.
Aug 11 19:33:58 <lbt> ;)
Aug 11 19:34:04 <TSCHAKeee> that's the only way i can put it.
Aug 11 19:34:07 <slaine> that's been used on a few projects in fairness
Aug 11 19:34:32 <TSCHAKeee> it's said when they want to rev us up
Aug 11 19:34:36 <slaine> I guess it's all these things, as it's a tool and it depends on how you want to use the tool ???
Aug 11 19:35:25 <lbt> I just don't have a problem using it to justify building generic x6 in the core
Aug 11 19:35:36 <lbt> my 8 key is wonly
Aug 11 19:36:35 <TSCHAKeee> not the only one
Aug 11 19:36:38 <TSCHAKeee> :P
Aug 11 19:36:40 <TSCHAKeee> :)
Aug 11 19:36:53 <lbt> it's a microsoft keyboard
Aug 11 19:36:58 * lcuk hands lbt a bag of keys
Aug 11 19:37:14 * lbt doesn't mind relegating MS to be a keyboard+mouse vendor...
Aug 11 19:37:33 <lcuk> its good hardware :)
Aug 11 19:37:38 <lcuk> normally
Aug 11 19:37:55 <lcuk> unless you get one of those keyboards broken down the middle
Aug 11 19:37:58 <lbt> 4000
Aug 11 19:38:02 <lcuk> its like buying pre-ripped jeans
Aug 11 19:38:02 <lbt> yup
Aug 11 19:38:33 <lbt> I tried bending an old one... didn't work... they ping off everywhere
Aug 11 19:38:36 <lcuk> football is dull tonight
Aug 11 19:38:48 <lbt> s/tonight//
Aug 11 19:38:55 <lcuk> :D
Aug 11 19:39:21 <lcuk> i've been a member of ##sports now since the WC and seen quite a few games, this one is deffo not great
Aug 11 19:40:43 <vgrade> i feel as though events have taken over from my suggestion of a community effort for a non SSSSEEEE3 build but will open a wiki page anyway
Aug 11 19:41:12 <vgrade> lbt, what heavy lifting do you need from people to do this on the new OBS
Aug 11 19:41:33 <lbt> good question
Aug 11 19:41:58 <vgrade> ok, first section of the wiki sorted
Aug 11 19:42:04 <lbt> probably finding a way to sync the projects and handle a way to spin on them
Aug 11 19:42:24 <slaine> Phoronix did some comparisons of the Moblin 2.1 and MeeGo 1.0 releases against other distros at the time,
Aug 11 19:42:26 <slaine> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=chromium_moblin_benchmarks&num=1
Aug 11 19:42:26 <slaine> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=meego_10_perf&num=1
Aug 11 19:42:27 <Stskeeps> frankly? i believe it's a matter of editing prjconf, rebuild gcc, binutils, then everything.
Aug 11 19:42:30 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 11 19:43:07 <lcuk> ++
Aug 11 19:43:32 <lcuk> Stskeeps, you often do ":P" to imply YMMV :D
Aug 11 19:43:57 <vgrade> if its that easy what was the last hours discussion about
Aug 11 19:44:21 <w00t_> vgrade: there is a reason the phrase "talk is cheap" exists
Aug 11 19:44:25 <Stskeeps> vgrade: because the problem isn't the core, the problem is the apps.
Aug 11 19:44:38 <vgrade> ah, ok
Aug 11 19:44:39 <w00t_> Stskeeps: not really an issue yet
Aug 11 19:44:42 <slaine> vgrade, you've basically scratched and old wound, we've been complaining about this since February in Meego and February 2009 in Moblin
Aug 11 19:44:46 <vgrade> so thats the heavy liftinh
Aug 11 19:44:49 <Stskeeps> w00t_: damage's already done, atom sdk exists
Aug 11 19:44:56 <lcuk> Stskeeps, your twittersheep is awesome http://twittersheep.com/results.php?u=stskeeps
Aug 11 19:45:07 <Stskeeps> slaine: at least all the prjconfs and info how to set up obs is there..
Aug 11 19:45:09 <w00t_> Stskeeps: realistically, I still don't think it's a problem though
Aug 11 19:45:10 <Stskeeps> (now)
Aug 11 19:45:55 <slaine> lcuk: that's awesome
Aug 11 19:46:08 <slaine> Stskeeps: it was there for moblin2.1 too, it just didn't work, lol
Aug 11 19:46:32 <lcuk> slaine, its great, it lets you see what sort of people are following your progress
Aug 11 19:46:38 <Stskeeps> lcuk: it also shows what i'm about
Aug 11 19:46:38 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 11 19:46:46 <slaine> mines not too bad actually
Aug 11 19:46:59 <w00t_> http://twittersheep.com/results.php?u=w00teh <- haha.
Aug 11 19:47:18 <w00t_> I have many, many adjectives
Aug 11 19:47:29 <w00t_> ('hippy'? wtf.)
Aug 11 19:47:30 <slaine> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=meego_10_perf&num=1
Aug 11 19:47:32 <slaine> crap
Aug 11 19:47:42 <CosmoHill> young? rude? punk?
Aug 11 19:47:48 <slaine> w00t_: we all knew it, dirty hippy
Aug 11 19:47:58 <slaine> http://twittersheep.com/results.php?u=slaine_
Aug 11 19:48:01 <ScottishDuck> http://twittersheep.com/results.php?u=DuckTunes
Aug 11 19:48:09 <w00t_> slaine: i'm tempted to combine words on that page to make proper descriptions
Aug 11 19:48:10 <allandrick> evening
Aug 11 19:48:15 <w00t_> e.g. "dirty open source hippy"
Aug 11 19:48:22 <slaine> rofl
Aug 11 19:48:26 * lcuk likes http://twittersheep.com/results.php?u=lcuk 
Aug 11 19:48:41 * slaine wipes tears from his eyes and tea from his screen
Aug 11 19:48:49 <CosmoHill> noobmonkey?
Aug 11 19:48:51 <w00t_> :)
Aug 11 19:48:53 <ScottishDuck> my last tweet was a particularily nice one
Aug 11 19:49:01 <lcuk> what I have noticed after looking around LOTS of these is that there is little meego mentions in all the bios of people
Aug 11 19:49:30 <Stskeeps> lbt: on a sidenote, when is community OBS supposed to move out of beta?
Aug 11 19:49:32 <w00t_> ScottishDuck: why are all your tweets duplicated
Aug 11 19:49:39 <ScottishDuck> ?
Aug 11 19:49:44 <lcuk> so you would expect high profile meego folks to be watched by other high profile meego people etc
Aug 11 19:49:44 <w00t_> http://twitter.com/DuckTunes
Aug 11 19:49:51 <lbt> Stskeeps: when I finish it
Aug 11 19:49:59 <ScottishDuck> I see no duplication
Aug 11 19:50:07 <lbt> I'm doing an issues list with X-Fade
Aug 11 19:50:17 <Stskeeps> lbt: k
Aug 11 19:50:26 <lbt> the maemo one is just running... the focus now is on the OSU big beast
Aug 11 19:50:53 <Stskeeps> lbt: technical question, workers are in xen vms right?
Aug 11 19:50:54 <Stskeeps> or kvm
Aug 11 19:51:00 <lbt> xen
Aug 11 19:51:02 <Stskeeps> k
Aug 11 19:51:07 <w00t_> ScottishDuck: http://w00t.dereferenced.net/p/i/imgbin20100811-6082-6yncoc-0.jpg
Aug 11 19:51:16 <timeless> isn't xen the tech that lost?
Aug 11 19:51:16 * lcuk saw lots and lots of big Nokia ones
Aug 11 19:51:19 <lbt> no special reason other than I know xen better
Aug 11 19:51:21 <lcuk> but not so many Intel ones
Aug 11 19:51:28 <ScottishDuck> I don't have that
Aug 11 19:51:35 <w00t_> weird
Aug 11 19:51:36 <lbt> timeless: support the underdog
Aug 11 19:51:54 <timeless> lbt: i have a box configured for xen
Aug 11 19:52:01 <timeless> but even oracle dropped it
Aug 11 19:52:05 <w00t_> lbt: time to switch to emacs, then?
Aug 11 19:52:07 <timeless> although i think they're favoring vbox
Aug 11 19:52:10 * w00t_ run run runs
Aug 11 19:52:17 <timeless> which given that they own vbox makes sense
Aug 11 19:52:40 <lbt> timeless: oracle dropped it..? that's unusual... they seem so ..... open...
Aug 11 19:52:46 <allandrick> *cough*
Aug 11 19:53:03 <thopiekar> vgrade: ping
Aug 11 19:53:21 <timeless> i thought they did
Aug 11 19:53:29 <timeless> but right now i can't finda ref
Aug 11 19:53:46 <w00t_> lbt: where are you? you must either be nearby or telling some serious untruth, my bullshit alarm just vibrated off my desk
Aug 11 19:53:52 <w00t_> :-p
Aug 11 19:54:44 <allandrick> g'day - anyone played with Bluetooth on MeeGo yet?
Aug 11 19:54:48 * allandrick is trying it out now.
Aug 11 19:58:17 * lbt takes Stskeeps' hint and goes to hack on the OBS some more
Aug 11 19:59:31 <CosmoHill> lbt and lcuk: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00t9t6r/Frys_English_Delight_Series_3_The_Trial_of_Qwerty/
Aug 11 20:00:18 * allandrick can't seem to find the pin settings...
Aug 11 20:01:32 <lcuk> CosmoHill, I cannot watch 2 tv programs and irc at same time :P
Aug 11 20:01:39 <lcuk> and england football is on :P
Aug 11 20:01:41 <CosmoHill> it's alright, it's ipplayer :)
Aug 11 20:01:45 <Jaffa> CosmoHill: I heard that advertised on R4 on Monday. Is it good? If so, I'll download it for my flight home
Aug 11 20:01:46 <CosmoHill> you have up to 7 days to watch it
Aug 11 20:01:54 <Jaffa> It's also radio, isn't it?
Aug 11 20:01:56 <CosmoHill> you can download?
Aug 11 20:01:58 * lcuk knows
Aug 11 20:02:06 * Jaffa has access to bbcredux.com
Aug 11 20:02:18 <CosmoHill> dammi
Aug 11 20:02:35 <CosmoHill> years 4 to 6 at school get taught to touch type
Aug 11 20:02:48 <CosmoHill> s/touch//
Aug 11 20:02:48 <infobot> CosmoHill meant: years 4 to 6 at school get taught to  type
Aug 11 20:03:00 <allandrick> aha
Aug 11 20:03:08 <allandrick> I reckon my problems are the modules not loading.
Aug 11 20:03:12 <allandrick> lsmod == empty.
Aug 11 20:03:45 <CosmoHill> Jaffa: i'm 5 mins in and it's very good so far
Aug 11 20:03:54 * allandrick scratches his head.
Aug 11 20:06:08 <th3hate> the n900's alpha unstable release is really slow and unreponsive, will it get better toward the beta?
Aug 11 20:06:32 <lbt> "my dad explained why the keyboard was like that..... but to be honest I wasn't really listening" :D
Aug 11 20:06:44 <CosmoHill> lbt: lol yeah
Aug 11 20:06:54 <Jaffa> th3hate: Stskeeps says there are numerous performance enhancements in the works (improved drivers, better compile options, etc.)
Aug 11 20:07:18 <Stskeeps> th3hate: it's a development image, what do you expect?
Aug 11 20:07:21 <leinir> th3hate: Read your own statement, especially the part about "alpha", and then ponder on what the answer might be ;)
Aug 11 20:07:29 <CosmoHill> "dirty mr qwerty" lol
Aug 11 20:07:39 <th3hate> i expected a bit more from an alpha image.. we're really close to the beta :S
Aug 11 20:07:59 <th3hate> beta = feature freeze
Aug 11 20:08:27 <CosmoHill> alpha = proof of concept?
Aug 11 20:08:36 <th3hate> thats pre-alpha
Aug 11 20:08:49 <lbt> th3hate: feel free to argue amonst yourself
Aug 11 20:08:59 <CosmoHill> eureka = proof of concept?
Aug 11 20:09:04 <th3hate> no problem anyway.. just hoping it would get better toward the beta
Aug 11 20:09:13 <lbt> it will
Aug 11 20:09:22 <th3hate> i bet
Aug 11 20:09:58 * allandrick reboots after symlinking the modules directory.
Aug 11 20:10:08 <tyan_> about of slowness is the is it TI:s GFX driver open sourced in N900 on Meego? As far as iI know GFX is not open sourced oin N900 maybe thats why it is slow?
Aug 11 20:10:18 <allandrick> oooh much better.
Aug 11 20:10:24 <CosmoHill> lbt: I keep looking down at my keyboard when he talks about some parts
Aug 11 20:11:08 <lbt> you'll find some off typos as I now configure the OBS by tougvh typing
Aug 11 20:11:28 <lcuk> how fast do omeled things refresh at?
Aug 11 20:11:40 <lcuk> (or whatever the acronym is)
Aug 11 20:12:07 <lcuk> i can't type with that on, radio enforces listening o_O
Aug 11 20:14:10 <allandrick> wow the range on the bt dongle I got is like 6"
Aug 11 20:14:15 * allandrick boggles.
Aug 11 20:14:21 <allandrick> no wonder it was so cheap !
Aug 11 20:15:46 <lbt> allandrick: use it as a proximity key
Aug 11 20:16:05 <allandrick> lol cheers I was hoping for handsfree audio but yeah, maybe it can start my car instead :P
Aug 11 20:16:31 <Stskeeps> tyan_: no, that's not it, often, closed source drivers are faster :P
Aug 11 20:16:52 <allandrick> can't expect much from 3 quid tho I suppose...
Aug 11 20:16:58 <vgrade> thopiekar,pong
Aug 11 20:17:44 <thopiekar> are there ready images on the net for meego+emgd?
Aug 11 20:18:00 <tyan_> Stskeeps: hmm what I meant was that Meego beta seems slow cause the lack of real 3d driver?
Aug 11 20:18:02 <thopiekar> the kickstarting thing doesn't work for me..
Aug 11 20:18:22 <Stskeeps> tyan_: we're not at beta yet, it's alpha
Aug 11 20:18:31 <lbt> CosmoHill: as all the keytops are wearing off I get to touch type more... if only I used more than 2 fingers
Aug 11 20:18:34 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: amoled? should be fast
Aug 11 20:18:38 <Stskeeps> tyan_: slowness is actually other factors, like MMC access
Aug 11 20:18:59 <CosmoHill> *kid typing with one finger*
Aug 11 20:19:03 <CosmoHill> me: you can use both hands
Aug 11 20:19:06 <CosmoHill> him: okay!
Aug 11 20:19:08 <tyan_> Stskeeps: Is see but whats the propgress on GFX anytway?
Aug 11 20:19:15 <CosmoHill> *kid types using one finger from each hand*
Aug 11 20:19:17 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: actually like CRT
Aug 11 20:20:06 <Stskeeps> tyan_: it's looking good. we need some things from DSS2 submitted to upstream and meego kernel, but i've had things working.
Aug 11 20:20:10 <allandrick> thopiekar: not yet
Aug 11 20:20:14 <Stskeeps> tyan_: i'm wondering if SGX can/should be overclocked.
Aug 11 20:22:03 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, ahh so its not like e-ink which I was mixing it up with, but I did find out that showing a mostly black screen would consume much less power - thats a nice datapoint.
Aug 11 20:22:27 <lcuk> are there any amoled devices which could be capable of hosting meego?
Aug 11 20:23:04 <ScottishDuck> Galaxy S could be hacked
Aug 11 20:23:05 * lcuk was playing in phone store at weekend with some amazing looking super slick devices
Aug 11 20:23:16 <ScottishDuck> Although I heard it has a closed bootloader
Aug 11 20:23:23 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: (am)oled is basically same principle like plasma, when it comes to refresh rate and power consumption vs screen content
Aug 11 20:23:36 <lcuk> doesn't the N85 have amoled?
Aug 11 20:24:00 * auke is back from lunch
Aug 11 20:24:07 <DocScrutinizer> no idea. Samsung has all in amoled now
Aug 11 20:24:42 <lcuk> i dont know which I was looking at
Aug 11 20:24:49 <lcuk> I took photos, but the label is all blurred
Aug 11 20:24:56 <DocScrutinizer> saturated colors but allegedly no good visibility in sunlight
Aug 11 20:25:04 <CosmoHill> lcuk: http://kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_3086.html << that;s a keybaord :D
Aug 11 20:25:29 <lcuk> CosmoHill, yeah, optimus maximus has been floating around for a while
Aug 11 20:25:42 <CosmoHill> that costs more than my car did :/
Aug 11 20:25:48 <DocScrutinizer> cost like gold
Aug 11 20:25:52 <lcuk> CosmoHill, thats gonna be a mouse -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdVqdfFdL3Q
Aug 11 20:25:58 <lcuk> ;)
Aug 11 20:26:04 <CosmoHill> lol
Aug 11 20:26:13 <CosmoHill> I like my Roccat Kova
Aug 11 20:26:28 <CosmoHill> decent usb mouce which is what I needed
Aug 11 20:26:35 <lcuk> i quite like the idea of having a nice touch device at my finger tips ;)
Aug 11 20:26:41 <CosmoHill> it has buttons on both sides for left and right handed use
Aug 11 20:27:36 <DocScrutinizer> hmm, righthand here. Logi MX Revolution
Aug 11 20:27:47 <lcuk> i have a wired logitech laser
Aug 11 20:28:02 <lcuk> first laser which has got me away from ballmouse tbh
Aug 11 20:28:08 <CosmoHill> my other wired keyboard is a Logitech MX510 that I got when I was 16 :D
Aug 11 20:28:16 <lcuk> non visible too so no bright red light glowing when I pick it up
Aug 11 20:29:26 <DocScrutinizer> the OMRON switches are crap, needed a swap with old Mousman revamped switch :-) http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10053
Aug 11 20:29:38 <CosmoHill> I have a MX700 (killed batteries), Mighty mouce (followed grains on my wooden desk) and a bluetooth mightmouce
Aug 11 20:30:04 <CosmoHill> the mighty mice have bad scroll balls and don't right click properly
Aug 11 20:30:11 * lcuk is wired
Aug 11 20:30:41 <lcuk> I had to stop using a mousepad with the laser though
Aug 11 20:31:01 <DocScrutinizer> logi not using proper BT for protocol is a PITA - but otherwise best mouse I ever had
Aug 11 20:31:02 <allandrick> has there been any meego updates since the 1.0 release?
Aug 11 20:31:10 <CosmoHill> 1.01 i think
Aug 11 20:31:12 <allandrick> I'm wondering if rebuilding my ks will help.
Aug 11 20:31:15 <CosmoHill> only available via update iirc
Aug 11 20:31:29 <allandrick> update in the OS itself?
Aug 11 20:31:36 <CosmoHill> yum update
Aug 11 20:31:44 <CosmoHill> that kinda update
Aug 11 20:31:44 <allandrick> on the meego device itself?
Aug 11 20:32:05 <allandrick> or in the build env.
Aug 11 20:32:06 <allandrick> ??
Aug 11 20:32:16 <lcuk> DocScrutinizer, every mouse I have ever tried which is wireless fails - I strongly dislike lag, in the time between moving mouse and stopping again normally the signals havent caught up
Aug 11 20:32:19 <CosmoHill> erm
Aug 11 20:32:24 <CosmoHill> ask lcuk :)
Aug 11 20:32:51 <allandrick> yum isn't even installed on the meego device :P
Aug 11 20:32:51 <lcuk> ask me what? building inside meego?
Aug 11 20:32:52 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: can't reproduce
Aug 11 20:32:58 <lcuk> i need meego hardware to do that
Aug 11 20:33:01 <Stskeeps> allandrick: zypper is
Aug 11 20:33:08 <lcuk> i wont run emulated
Aug 11 20:33:17 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: only annoyance is suspend mode sometimes needs a kick to wake up
Aug 11 20:33:20 <lcuk> i have many intel devices here
Aug 11 20:33:40 <lcuk> and none are properly compabile
Aug 11 20:34:01 <lcuk> compatible
Aug 11 20:34:15 <allandrick> righto.
Aug 11 20:34:24 <allandrick> it's off doing something now.
Aug 11 20:35:27 <allandrick> 26 packages to upgrade, 1 new.
Aug 11 20:35:38 <allandrick> new kernel.
Aug 11 20:35:41 <allandrick> interesting.
Aug 11 20:36:24 <auke> zypper install yum; yum remove zypper
Aug 11 20:36:28 <auke> problem solved
Aug 11 20:36:30 <allandrick> lol
Aug 11 20:36:41 <allandrick> hadn't thought of it like that.
Aug 11 20:37:06 <auke> I'm not joking
Aug 11 20:37:08 <allandrick> why is it there are so many different versions of the same thing
Aug 11 20:37:17 <allandrick> yum, apt-get, emerge, zypper (new one for me)
Aug 11 20:37:27 <allandrick> cvs, svn, and now git
Aug 11 20:37:37 <allandrick> the mind boggles.
Aug 11 20:37:54 * lcuk >> out
Aug 11 20:38:03 * allandrick waves.
Aug 11 20:38:09 <auke> allandrick: vim, emacs
Aug 11 20:38:15 <auke> P, NP
Aug 11 20:38:17 <allandrick> that's different auke
Aug 11 20:38:18 <auke> Jaffa: :)
Aug 11 20:38:32 <allandrick> vim has improvements over vi, emacs is a totally different beast.
Aug 11 20:38:39 <allandrick> it's like comparing notepad with notepad++
Aug 11 20:38:43 <auke> Jaffa: I'm bringing up Russel's paradox next
Aug 11 20:39:24 <allandrick> I"m just saying - a lot of duplicated effort
Aug 11 20:39:50 <allandrick> it's ego that does it tho.
Aug 11 20:39:54 <allandrick> ppl just can't get along.
Aug 11 20:40:03 * allandrick slaps himself with a wet fish.
Aug 11 20:40:05 <allandrick> see?
Aug 11 20:40:07 <allandrick> even I hate me.
Aug 11 20:40:09 <auke> asm, c, c++, pascal, modula-2, java, lisp, etc....
Aug 11 20:40:21 <Jaffa> allandrick: You been reading the "Would you miss the Council if it was gone?" thread on talk.maemo.org? :-/
Aug 11 20:40:32 <CosmoHill> Window home basic, prem, pro, enterprice starer etc
Aug 11 20:40:49 <allandrick> Jaffa: no mate, just got started in on this MeeGo stuff on Monday
Aug 11 20:41:09 <Jaffa> allandrick: There's a nice definition of mismatched expectations and "not get along"edness
Aug 11 20:41:21 * Jaffa is biased, being one of the volunteers being railed on ;-)
Aug 11 20:41:32 <allandrick> 19 pages?
Aug 11 20:41:38 <Jaffa> allandrick: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60131
Aug 11 20:41:40 <allandrick> no wonder nothing gets done - everyone's bitching at each other on forums :)
Aug 11 20:41:53 <Jaffa> allandrick: Maybe, I see 7 cos I've bumped up the number of posts per page
Aug 11 20:42:00 <allandrick> lol
Aug 11 20:42:10 <allandrick> you're living in denial then :P
Aug 11 20:42:20 <Jaffa> Too right!
Aug 11 20:42:36 <allandrick> cbf reading that
Aug 11 20:42:43 <allandrick> I'm too old for politics :P
Aug 11 20:42:50 <allandrick> I just want shit to work already ;-)
Aug 11 20:42:52 <auke> lol interesting thread
Aug 11 20:42:54 <CosmoHill> you're to old to be f too
Aug 11 20:42:59 <CosmoHill> hey auke
Aug 11 20:43:34 * allandrick puts a post-it note on his monitor reminding him this channel is logged.
Aug 11 20:44:01 <auke> allandrick: assume all channels are logged.
Aug 11 20:44:18 * allandrick was using the internet before logs were invented.
Aug 11 20:45:23 <allandrick> ahh those were the days.  you could dial into a DECNET terminal server at 1200/75, LAT connect to a VMS system and from there telnet to the local SMTP server and send mail from god@heaven.com
Aug 11 20:45:35 <allandrick> freaked out the first years.
Aug 11 20:46:28 <allandrick> ahhh TGV.
Aug 11 20:46:30 <Jaffa> Ah, SMTP conversations. Those were the days
Aug 11 20:46:47 * allandrick nods knowingly, stroking his long grey beard.
Aug 11 20:46:53 <auke> raise your hands if can can type SMTP to a server over telnet
Aug 11 20:46:59 * Jaffa hands up
Aug 11 20:46:59 * auke raises hand
Aug 11 20:47:00 <thiago_home> could you whistle the connection at 1200/75 ?
Aug 11 20:47:02 * allandrick raises his hand.
Aug 11 20:47:09 <auke> thiago_home: XD
Aug 11 20:47:10 <allandrick> only 300 thaiiago_home
Aug 11 20:47:17 <auke> ok now we've identified the old people
Aug 11 20:47:26 * allandrick isn't old.  Just worn out.
Aug 11 20:47:27 * thiago_home is from the EHLO time
Aug 11 20:47:43 <auke> raise your hands if you never played doom 3D
Aug 11 20:47:48 <allandrick> see, there you go again - what was wrong with HELO?
Aug 11 20:47:51 <thiago_home> there's a 3D version?
Aug 11 20:47:53 <CosmoHill> .o/
Aug 11 20:48:08 * thiago_home is considering buying SC2 though
Aug 11 20:48:12 <thiago_home> first game in over 10 years
Aug 11 20:48:16 * allandrick wonders if castle wolfenstein counts...
Aug 11 20:48:26 <auke> allandrick: possibly
Aug 11 20:48:53 <allandrick> C=128 in C=64 mode.
Aug 11 20:49:49 <slaine> auke: now I feel old based on that doom question
Aug 11 20:50:52 <allandrick> right - reboot time - see what the updates bring.
Aug 11 20:51:24 * allandrick installs yum while he's at it.
Aug 11 20:51:29 * allandrick cackles.
Aug 11 20:56:44 <vgrade> allandrik, you probably did'nt want to upgrade the kernel
Aug 11 20:57:50 <allandrick> probably
Aug 11 20:58:13 <allandrick> I'm driving blind here mate, I've really know enough to be dangerous.
Aug 11 20:58:19 <Aard> 12
Aug 11 20:58:46 <allandrick> we'll find out in a minute :)
Aug 11 20:58:56 <allandrick> vgrade: evening by the way
Aug 11 20:59:15 <vgrade> evening, what about ya
Aug 11 20:59:24 <allandrick> alright mate, y'self?
Aug 11 21:00:16 <allandrick> well she boots up ok
Aug 11 21:00:24 <allandrick> but the touchscreen is borked again
Aug 11 21:00:39 <vgrade> not bad, meego upped on Archos A9 yesyerday with BuBu
Aug 11 21:01:05 <allandrick> nice nice
Aug 11 21:01:25 <allandrick> the audio problem by the way:
Aug 11 21:01:39 <allandrick> still there
Aug 11 21:01:50 <allandrick> bluetooth not working well either
Aug 11 21:01:53 <allandrick> can't configure a pin
Aug 11 21:02:08 <allandrick> or find out what the default one is (that may be just me though) - not where I'd expect it in /etc/bluetooth
Aug 11 21:02:21 <vgrade> yes, audio on my list, bluetooth not on my radar
Aug 11 21:02:44 <vgrade> has jogger got BT
Aug 11 21:03:08 <allandrick> nope, I paid the princely sum of 2 pound 80 pence for a 2.0EDR USB dongle.
Aug 11 21:03:14 <allandrick> it's smaller than my thumbnail.
Aug 11 21:03:19 <allandrick> (that was delivered, by the way)
Aug 11 21:03:22 <allandrick> ebay is your friend.
Aug 11 21:03:31 <allandrick> it half-works
Aug 11 21:03:41 <allandrick> I can scan devices on the meego and see my phone
Aug 11 21:03:43 <allandrick> but can't connect.
Aug 11 21:03:51 <allandrick> likewise in reverse it doesn't go so well either
Aug 11 21:04:52 <vgrade> i think getting wifi up for most ports has been difficult (n900) so I guess BT will be next, unless anyone knows better
Aug 11 21:05:26 <allandrick> I managed to get the wifi associated, but couldn't pass any traffic
Aug 11 21:06:05 <allandrick> is it a hardware support thing or just 1.0 blues?
Aug 11 21:06:14 <allandrick> e.g.: would this work better on another set of hardware?
Aug 11 21:06:41 <vgrade> 1.0 works fine on supported platforms, ie small list of netbooks
Aug 11 21:07:04 <allandrick> I mean the IVI image
Aug 11 21:07:12 <allandrick> that too?
Aug 11 21:07:38 <vgrade> anything else (ie joggler, GMA500, AMD, ATI, nVidia, nonSSSE3) and your doing the heavy lifting
Aug 11 21:07:44 <allandrick> gotcha.
Aug 11 21:08:19 <vgrade> IVI also has a small list of supported platforms, ie new Intel SBC's
Aug 11 21:08:23 <allandrick> you'd think companies like OpenPeak would be jumping all over it.
Aug 11 21:09:06 <slaine> Atom N270 and Intel 945GME is the basic x86 hardware
Aug 11 21:09:19 * allandrick might have to go shopping.
Aug 11 21:09:58 <slaine> OpenPeak did have a media phone in the works for moblin
Aug 11 21:10:23 <slaine> but with all the chopping and changing I've not heard anything since the IDF last december
Aug 11 21:10:24 <vgrade> allandrick, check out the irc log for this channel, intersting chat on the very subject of hw
Aug 11 21:10:37 <allandrick> right
Aug 11 21:10:54 <vgrade> Evening DawnFoster,
Aug 11 21:11:02 <DawnFoster> hey vgrade
Aug 11 21:11:04 <CosmoHill> she's alive!
Aug 11 21:11:13 <vgrade> you've missed it all
Aug 11 21:11:18 <DawnFoster> oh good!
Aug 11 21:11:29 <DawnFoster> I'll check the logs later. I've been at LinuxCon
Aug 11 21:11:32 <CosmoHill> vgrade: you make it sound like a bad things
Aug 11 21:11:34 <DawnFoster> on a related note ...
Aug 11 21:11:39 <vgrade> what's new there
Aug 11 21:11:45 <DawnFoster> We'll be having a MeeGo mini meetup at #linuxcon at 6pm today. Meet outside of Atlantic 2 & then walk to the Harbor Cruise together for anyone here in Boston at LinuxCon
Aug 11 21:12:07 <DawnFoster> I gave a MeeGo talk this am to a packed room
Aug 11 21:12:13 <vgrade> are you buying?
Aug 11 21:12:17 <DawnFoster> and they are doing a MeeGo keynote right now
Aug 11 21:12:39 <DawnFoster> the cruise is sponsored by Intel, so I guess, yes :)
Aug 11 21:13:03 <DawnFoster> people just need to get their free ticket
Aug 11 21:13:26 <vgrade> vgrade, hops on a plane :)
Aug 11 21:13:39 <thiago_home> is the keynote any good?
Aug 11 21:13:45 <DawnFoster> you have 45 minutes to get here :)
Aug 11 21:14:17 <DawnFoster> it's a short 30 minute keynote, so not very in depth
Aug 11 21:14:26 <DawnFoster> seems ok so far.
Aug 11 21:14:30 <vgrade> :( I hate missing out on a free drink
Aug 11 21:14:42 <DawnFoster> the are doing video, so you can probably watch it later
Aug 11 21:14:49 <vgrade> can I claim it in Dublin
Aug 11 21:15:00 <DawnFoster> it was probably livestreamed, which I should have mentioned here 30 min ago.
Aug 11 21:15:02 <allandrick> what's in Dublin? :)
Aug 11 21:15:17 <DawnFoster> vgrade - what makes you think we'll have free drinks in dublin :)
Aug 11 21:15:18 <vgrade> meego conf
Aug 11 21:15:23 <DawnFoster> ok, probably
Aug 11 21:15:32 <allandrick> oh nice
Aug 11 21:15:36 <allandrick> when's that?
Aug 11 21:15:39 <DawnFoster> http://conference2010.meego.com/
Aug 11 21:15:44 <allandrick> thanks Df
Aug 11 21:15:50 <DawnFoster> all the details you could want :)
Aug 11 21:16:39 <DawnFoster> reminder: people need to submit sessions by Aug 23rd
Aug 11 21:16:43 <DawnFoster> hint, hint
Aug 11 21:17:23 <allandrick> hmm I'll just be back from DC that week so ... might be able to make it.
Aug 11 21:18:16 <vgrade> DawnFoster, are you looking for hw demos for the conf
Aug 11 21:18:36 <DawnFoster> not sure
Aug 11 21:18:49 <DawnFoster> you might want to submit something as a session
Aug 11 21:19:07 <DawnFoster> or do a hardware demo as part of the unconference sessions on wednesday
Aug 11 21:19:24 <DawnFoster> if we get enough interest, maybe we could set up some area where people can do demos
Aug 11 21:20:03 <vgrade> i've been putting the ivi,netbook and handset on the O2 joggler, MeeGo will not work on non-SSSE3 CPUs
Aug 11 21:20:26 <vgrade> woops wrong link, http://www.youtube.com/user/vgrade100
Aug 11 21:22:52 <allandrick> yay sda2 error ext2_lookup deleted inode referenced.
Aug 11 21:22:58 * allandrick grumbles.
Aug 11 21:25:19 <allandrick> g'night all, taking a break to finish a uni assignment.
Aug 11 21:25:33 <allandrick> back week after next
Aug 11 21:25:35 * allandrick waves.
Aug 11 21:25:53 <vgrade> alandrick, put your stick in host and fsck
Aug 11 21:26:05 <allandrick> will do mate
Aug 11 21:26:07 <slaine> night folks
Aug 11 21:26:22 <slaine> time for a big cuppa tea, some true blood and then off to bed
Aug 11 21:26:35 <DawnFoster> ok, I have to get back to linux
Aug 11 21:26:36 <vgrade> night slaine, nonSSSE3 page nearly up
Aug 11 21:26:37 <DawnFoster> later people
Aug 11 21:26:51 <vgrade> enjoy the criuse
Aug 11 21:26:57 <DawnFoster> thanks!
Aug 11 21:27:08 <slaine> vgrade: will you post to the -dev list ?
Aug 11 21:27:19 <vgrade> wd
Aug 11 21:27:23 <slaine> sweet
Aug 11 21:27:25 <slaine> laters
Aug 11 21:56:27 <CosmoHill> can you be a intern after you?
Aug 11 21:59:44 <lcuk> CosmoHill, that is amongst one of the stranger posts you have made
Aug 11 21:59:53 <CosmoHill> uni*
Aug 11 22:00:23 <lcuk> now, it makes a bit more send
Aug 11 22:00:27 <lcuk> sense
Aug 11 22:00:30 <CosmoHill> ha!
Aug 11 22:00:35 <CosmoHill> English got you too!
Aug 11 22:00:37 * lcuk facepalms
Aug 11 22:00:43 <lcuk> it always happens!
Aug 11 22:28:53 <vgrade> http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/nonSSSE3
Aug 11 22:30:20 <CosmoHill> I was expected "Supported Devices" followed by nothingness
Aug 11 22:30:35 <CosmoHill> yay I'm already on there :)
Aug 11 22:40:03 <w00t_> vgrade: ++
Aug 11 22:43:18 <CosmoHill> w00t_: why do you have a tail btw?
Aug 11 22:43:25 <w00t_> CosmoHill: there's two of me
Aug 11 22:43:34 <w00t_> and only one of me tends to be in here
Aug 11 22:43:35 <CosmoHill> physically or mentally?
Aug 11 22:43:56 <w00t_> I have two clients, one for work (or work related stuff), and one for socialising
Aug 11 22:44:06 <w00t_> in practice there isn't a great deal of difference between the two
Aug 11 22:44:08 <w00t_> but oh well
Aug 11 22:45:34 <auke> I do the same
Aug 11 22:45:41 <lpotter> I only socialize when I work :)
Aug 11 22:45:50 <auke> the other one of me trolls around anonymously :)
Aug 11 22:46:21 <CosmoHill> it's plick!
Aug 11 22:46:42 <lpotter> oh good. we can blame all the anonymous troll posts on auke
Aug 11 22:47:09 <auke> shush, no, this channel is no fun to troll
Aug 11 22:51:16 <creative1412> Hello :) guys does Meego has a package manger?
Aug 11 22:51:35 <CosmoHill> you mean zypper?
Aug 11 22:51:41 <CosmoHill> or did you mean a GUI one?
Aug 11 22:53:35 <creative1412> so it has zypper?
Aug 11 22:53:39 <creative1412> like opensuse?
Aug 11 22:54:08 <creative1412> can i add the OpeSuse repos?
Aug 11 22:54:41 <bspencer> lbt: X-Fade  ping
Aug 11 22:54:47 <bspencer> hey guys, not sure what timezone you're in.
Aug 11 22:55:17 <bspencer> I'd like to sync on community repos, obs server, and the ongoing work on garage clients, ocs, etc.
Aug 11 22:55:27 <bspencer> wondering what time is convenient.
Aug 11 22:55:33 <bspencer> for an irc mtg.
Aug 11 22:57:19 <creative1412> CosmoHill: can i add opensuse 3rd party reops?
Aug 11 22:57:33 <CosmoHill> i don't believe so
Aug 11 22:57:55 <CosmoHill> for example my distro uses RPM but you can't install rpms from meego or fedora
Aug 11 22:58:03 <vgrade> bspenser, lbt is UK tz
Aug 11 22:58:20 <CosmoHill> whilst it may use the same packager the actually packages themselves will differ
Aug 11 22:58:32 <vgrade> also try on #meego-dev later
Aug 11 23:01:34 <creative1412> CosmoHill: so the Megoo hasn't lot of packages :(
Aug 11 23:01:48 <CosmoHill> nope
Aug 11 23:03:22 <creative1412> CosmoHill: i think i'll stick to Ubuntu then"unfortunately"!
Aug 11 23:03:52 <creative1412> hope fedora or SUSE make a meego remix soon:(
Aug 11 23:05:32 <CosmoHill> actaully fedora are
Aug 11 23:05:45 <CosmoHill> fc14 will have one, if I heard correctly
Aug 11 23:06:50 <creative1412> fc14 Thanks GOD! no more ubuntu soon :D
Aug 11 23:06:59 <creative1412> thanks CosmoHill :)
Aug 11 23:07:02 <creative1412> bye
Aug 11 23:07:05 <CosmoHill> bye
Aug 11 23:07:12 <ScottishDuck> I wouldn't ever place my trust in fedora
Aug 11 23:10:37 <lpotter> there is already a meego based on opensuse http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/openSUSE-11-3-LiveCD-with-MeeGo-desktop-1048563.html
Aug 11 23:36:06 <bspencer> vgrade  thx
Aug 11 23:50:24 <CosmoHill> hmm
Aug 11 23:51:08 <CosmoHill> I think if I build the cross compiler for CLFS with extra packaged need to start compiling RPMS
Aug 11 23:51:47 <CosmoHill> and then started some of the required packages (gcc, glibc, kernel headers) as configured by meego
Aug 11 23:52:08 <CosmoHill> i might then be able to compile and install the src.rpm files one by one
Aug 12 00:19:10 <CosmoHill> cyas
Aug 12 00:20:38 <vgrade> night
Aug 12 01:02:46 <TSCHAKeee> arrggg
Aug 12 01:03:13 <TSCHAKeee> wth, meego won't boot, it times out looking for the mmc card
Aug 12 01:03:21 <TSCHAKeee> *scratch-head*
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 12 02:59:57 2010