**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 23 02:59:56 2010 Aug 23 03:30:44 so....is meego usable now on the n900 ? Aug 23 03:32:16 see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioNjJzNUZ4A&feature=player_embedded#! Aug 23 05:43:30 hmm.. i been fighting with connman here Aug 23 05:43:36 still get no net on boot Aug 23 05:44:16 at #connman they say it must be a racing condition between mac8011 ath9k and dhclient - is there sometihng i can do to figure it ot and fix (or hack around)? Aug 23 08:04:02 I though my topic on enabling meego on nvidia card would attract more people out there Aug 23 08:04:44 at least devs that does not have a netbook and wants to develop on their desktop Aug 23 08:05:04 no interest? Aug 23 08:05:52 where did you post it? Aug 23 08:07:50 http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=1228 Aug 23 08:09:59 vlj: link to ks file on your wiki page is broken? Aug 23 08:12:17 the funny thing about nvidia drivers and xinerama is that they require the X server to support it *just* so that they can disable it :( Aug 23 08:12:18 well Aug 23 08:12:30 indeed Aug 23 08:12:53 I though it was correctly updated Aug 23 08:13:10 i see why you wanted a ks file now, since you need to patch all those xorg things Aug 23 08:13:27 yup Aug 23 08:13:57 i wonder if anyone actually reported the xinerama thing to nvidia? Aug 23 08:15:12 dunno Aug 23 08:15:45 however nvidia driver can run with a rootless Xorg Aug 23 08:15:55 and that is a nice thing as ubuntu will move toward a rootless X Aug 23 08:17:44 ali1234: you remember our yesterday's discussion about X and keycodes? Aug 23 08:17:49 yes Aug 23 08:17:57 of course, i am not a goldfish :) Aug 23 08:18:21 does brightness control work now? Aug 23 08:18:28 you linked me http://lxr.linux.no/#linux+v2.6.35/include/linux/input.h this file however values i see there are differnt from what i get from xmodmap -pke Aug 23 08:18:31 well not really Aug 23 08:18:39 i use mod4+up/down for now Aug 23 08:18:54 but official keys are i am still fighting with Aug 23 08:19:24 did you check with xev what events X server sees? Aug 23 08:19:30 xev is blind Aug 23 08:19:37 it sees nothing Aug 23 08:19:40 ok, that is not unusual Aug 23 08:20:00 i ca see scancodes for "normal" keys Aug 23 08:20:28 brightness in particular is not visible there Aug 23 08:20:38 but soe other Fn+X produce weird result Aug 23 08:20:54 like Fn+F3 (euro sign) produces 8 events Aug 23 08:20:58 what about evtest on the event device? Aug 23 08:21:02 4 keypresses and 4 keyreleases Aug 23 08:21:35 no evtest on meego here Aug 23 08:21:45 unless it is root level Aug 23 08:21:49 maybe X really doesn't understand the brightness keys Aug 23 08:22:11 ali1234: that would a larger issue than what i see now Aug 23 08:22:20 it wouldnt work for anyone then Aug 23 08:22:44 but back to my original question - should i use values i see in xmodmap -pke or these from input.h ? Aug 23 08:22:44 what happens if you map those keys to a simple key like KEY_A Aug 23 08:22:59 ali1234: map keys how? Aug 23 08:23:07 with setkeycode Aug 23 08:23:33 setkeycode here takes 2 numerical params Aug 23 08:23:42 yes Aug 23 08:23:42 first being the scan and second the function Aug 23 08:23:53 what function should i use for KEY_A ? Aug 23 08:24:37 also, i have them in rc.local - may be they should be somewhere else? Aug 23 08:24:51 i don't think so Aug 23 08:25:02 KEY_A is 30 Aug 23 08:25:21 input.h is the key codes for console Aug 23 08:25:46 and xmodmap -pke reports something else? Aug 23 08:26:07 i must also say again that in console these keys function as intended Aug 23 08:26:37 thats because in console screen brightness is still under bios control, probably Aug 23 08:26:45 i bet those keys work in the bios right? Aug 23 08:27:11 no sure about bios and console works with help of custom scripts playing with /sys/class/acpi/video Aug 23 08:27:26 ok Aug 23 08:27:49 but console reacts to the keystrokes and launches what is apropriate Aug 23 08:27:59 whereas under X i can not assign them to do same Aug 23 08:28:40 ...so, you want me to dosomething like setkeycodes 0x88 30 # KEY_A Aug 23 08:29:24 you can use showkey instead of evtest Aug 23 08:29:32 (on the console) Aug 23 08:29:48 ahh Aug 23 08:29:49 interesting Aug 23 08:30:03 showkey does not show releases for brightnesscontrol Aug 23 08:30:27 at same time for some other similar keys that do work under X releases are visible Aug 23 08:30:41 this does sound like evdev issue now Aug 23 08:31:38 showkey -s Aug 23 08:31:57 -s show scancodes -k show keycodes Aug 23 08:32:28 keycodes shows what i expect Aug 23 08:32:55 scancodes shows sometihng else but similar to what one mighyt expect Aug 23 08:33:46 morning all Aug 23 08:33:52 check man xmodmap too Aug 23 08:34:04 if it makes any different - scancodes for brightnessup and down are 0x4c 0x54 Aug 23 08:34:28 i thought it was 0x88 Aug 23 08:34:40 dmesg shown 0x88 Aug 23 08:35:17 can i undeo scancodes w/o rebooting ? Aug 23 08:36:26 loadkeys -s Aug 23 08:36:55 oh, no Aug 23 08:37:07 -c? Aug 23 08:37:14 maybe loadkeys -d Aug 23 08:37:27 but that loads a default, it doesn't clear them Aug 23 08:37:42 well there is no default for starters Aug 23 08:37:48 but i can just reboot i guess Aug 23 08:38:16 you can use dumpkeys too Aug 23 08:38:53 what i was wondering ishow to get original output back into dmesg Aug 23 08:38:58 but i'll reboot for that Aug 23 08:39:06 hello Aug 23 08:39:20 setkeycodes only affects console anyway Aug 23 08:39:20 sidequestiion - is there a cli paste tool usable with meego easy? Aug 23 08:39:37 for X you have to xmodmap Aug 23 08:39:57 but you have to have the keys showing up on xev first before you can even do that Aug 23 08:39:58 ali1234: yesterday you told me not to bother with xmodmap if i set keycodes to what X wants them to Aug 23 08:40:09 yeah i was wrong Aug 23 08:40:24 if they don't even show up in xev then there's something far out with your keyboard Aug 23 08:40:41 okay back to basics, i'll rvert to what it was before and i want to paste dmesg Aug 23 08:41:00 what can i use for pasting it w/o messing with browser? Aug 23 08:41:12 like undergento i use nopaste script Aug 23 08:41:22 is there an alternative for meego? Aug 23 08:43:32 Morning Guys, Aug 23 08:43:33 http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/19/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/ Aug 23 08:43:36 Is it okay if I bounce an IVI idea/Usage scenario on the forum here to get some feedback? Aug 23 08:44:13 It may sound daft, but I'm hoping I can be put straight here? Aug 23 08:44:24 tcounihan: discussion is welcome Aug 23 08:44:30 Cool Aug 23 08:44:57 Okay, picture this - Meego IVI <-- BT A2DP ---> Meego Handset Aug 23 08:45:20 So, if I set up streaming and begin listign to my tunes Aug 23 08:45:46 Does it make sense to cache either/or the album structure and tunes? Aug 23 08:46:21 That way, on further/future engagment, if a use plays the same song, we could offload the streaming by playign locally from a cache Aug 23 08:46:38 There may be a legal/DRM issue Aug 23 08:46:53 ali1234: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Samsung_N120#Fix_Fn_.2B_key_combinations_does_not_produce_key_release_events could be relevant? Aug 23 08:47:03 But from a technical and more interestingly a usage scenario - does it make sense or is it totally daft idea? Aug 23 08:47:20 tcounihan: well, a2dp doesn't allow distinguishing between songs for caching, also, how about streams where people skip in Aug 23 08:47:23 ? Aug 23 08:48:06 Stskeeps: I guess there is a lot of technical nuances to work out, but at a conceptual level, does it have any merit? Aug 23 08:48:11 Phazorx: i don't understand why you see *nothing* on xev Aug 23 08:48:21 tcounihan: i think power usage ends up being more than simply re-streaming Aug 23 08:48:42 Phazorx: that means you can't remap in X because there is nothing to remap Aug 23 08:48:50 Stskeeps: Can you expand, I'm not too sure I understand Aug 23 08:49:20 Stskeeps: is that from the handset perspective? Aug 23 08:49:27 ali1234: are you sure setkeycodes does not talk to evdev? Aug 23 08:49:32 tcounihan: as in, your caching might seem useful but in the big perspective, you waste more power on caching, i would guess.. Aug 23 08:50:01 Stskeeps: Okay, understood, but would it be a 1 time hit? Aug 23 08:50:12 and in case if it does - unless kernel is aware what even to trigger - will anything show up under X untill setkeycodes are set correctly? Aug 23 08:50:38 Stskeeps: Plus, on the IVI side of the interface, we'd have a honking big battery under the bonnet, so it may not be too much of an issue Aug 23 08:50:50 i see 2 problems at this stage, there is missing mapping to features and missing release events Aug 23 08:51:14 tcounihan: mm Aug 23 08:51:20 mapping i sort of know how to aptach, but i am not sure what digits to use anymore since information sources differ Aug 23 08:51:46 and with release events - with abandonded HAL i dont even know how to deal with them Aug 23 08:51:47 Phazorx: X uses totally different codes to console Aug 23 08:52:00 Stskeeps: Assuming that we can bind tune info by taking it higher in the stack (perhaps at player level) and bind it to the first instance of the played stream Aug 23 08:52:12 in theory you just have two mappings, one done by setkeycodes and one done by xmodmap Aug 23 08:52:43 Stskeeps: Dump it into a cache somewhere, and then if its played a second time, pull it from there as opposed to executing a streamign procedure Aug 23 08:52:49 you need to make it show on xev in order to map it with xmodmap Aug 23 08:52:52 ali1234: okay, and the numbers i need for them msut be different, can be different, can be anything, what? Aug 23 08:53:06 i thought changing the code with setkeycodes would do that but apparently it doesn't Aug 23 08:53:21 Stskeeps: It would involve maintaining some logic w.r.t. the health of the recorded data - i.e. skipped etc.. Aug 23 08:53:25 well not having release events might matter there too Aug 23 08:53:41 no, xev displays those separately Aug 23 08:53:42 Stskeeps: Perhaps it may introduce a totally new component into the Arch from an IVI perspective Aug 23 08:53:50 ali1234: i mean on kernle level Aug 23 08:54:09 xev wont display anything unless kernel/evdev handles things like it expects them Aug 23 08:54:33 Stskeeps: But for today's query, I really wanted to explore if it made sense conceptually - what do you think? Aug 23 08:54:45 so i think a deeper level issue needs to be mitigated 1st Aug 23 08:54:49 tcounihan: not completely stupid but i am wondering if there's better protocols than a2dp.. Aug 23 08:54:50 Phazorx: xev displays what X receives no matter what it is Aug 23 08:55:30 you dont get release until you release the key, however, xev still understands this Aug 23 08:55:32 well there miht me more issues inbetween xev and evdev - but these i wont have any clue about untill i get there Aug 23 08:55:57 you need to compile evtest, it tells you *everything* about what comes out of the event device Aug 23 08:56:02 ali1234: yes... but assuming there is at least half a problem with these keystrokes at kernel level - there might be more there Aug 23 08:56:37 well if it has configure script compiling it wont be a big issue Aug 23 08:56:46 it is just 1 .c file Aug 23 08:56:59 and i still would like to know if there is a way to paste things easy with meego Aug 23 08:57:14 http://beagleboard.googlecode.com/files/evtest.c Aug 23 08:57:17 browser and copy/pasting w/o mouse makes thigns very annoying Aug 23 09:00:03 hrm... the thing it want in devtree is not here Aug 23 09:00:08 Stskeeps: Agreed, the thought would be that this 'new' component would tap into a other protocols too Aug 23 09:00:17 Stskeeps: USB, etc... Aug 23 09:00:24 mm Aug 23 09:00:35 Stskeeps: but if the device is limited to A2DP only Aug 23 09:00:46 Stskeeps: then we take the data from A2DP Aug 23 09:01:30 Stskeeps: So at a high level, the requirement would be, when pulling/streaming data from a device, cache it Aug 23 09:01:40 mm Aug 23 09:01:41 maybe Aug 23 09:01:41 Phazorx: i think setkeycodes does not affect X at all Aug 23 09:01:46 tcounihan: anyway, i have to work Aug 23 09:02:05 Stskeeps: When playing data from a device, look first to cache and see if its there to play locally Aug 23 09:02:06 ali1234: does it affect evdev? Aug 23 09:02:18 Phazorx: i think no Aug 23 09:02:38 okay got evtest and clean boot w/o me messing with setkeycodes Aug 23 09:02:42 Phazorx: it controls how linux console maps evdev output Aug 23 09:02:57 not the actual evdev output Aug 23 09:03:03 at least i think Aug 23 09:03:06 Stskeeps: Ok, cheers, at least the impression I'm getting is the concept isn't totally off the wall and may be worth further exploration on myside as opposed to totally droping the idea Aug 23 09:13:04 Phazorx: i just tried 'setkeyscodes 1e 31' Aug 23 09:13:17 now my a key outputs s in both console and X Aug 23 09:18:26 so... setkeycodes is systemwide and probably evdev relevant? Aug 23 09:18:27 now i try 'setkeycodes 1e 224' and my a key now sends XF86MonBrightnessDown Aug 23 09:18:44 ali1234: why 224? Aug 23 09:18:54 #define KEY_BRIGHTNESSDOWN 224 Aug 23 09:18:56 from input.h Aug 23 09:19:26 okay... and "xmodmap -pke | grep nBri" shows 224 too ? Aug 23 09:20:40 http://dpaste.com/232725/ Aug 23 09:20:44 thats dmesg tail Aug 23 09:20:52 and i cant grab evtest output Aug 23 09:20:55 no, it shows 232 Aug 23 09:21:02 do i need to 2>&1 or something? Aug 23 09:21:27 dmesg is telling you what to do... Aug 23 09:21:33 Use 'setkeycodes e008 ' Aug 23 09:21:48 evtest shows 88/89 Aug 23 09:21:51 not e008 Aug 23 09:22:20 i would recommend you do what it says Aug 23 09:22:30 setkeycodes e008 224 Aug 23 09:22:45 can try that Aug 23 09:22:50 then go to gnome key binding thing and try to bind something to it Aug 23 09:22:55 but even w/o them being set evtest shows the vents Aug 23 09:23:21 it will show the scan codes Aug 23 09:23:28 but nobody cares about those Aug 23 09:23:43 nice Aug 23 09:24:01 and i need 224 not 236 as xmodmap shows for XF86MonBrightnessDown? Aug 23 09:24:09 yes Aug 23 09:24:28 my xmodmap shows 232 for brightness down Aug 23 09:24:42 point was it is not same as input.h Aug 23 09:24:53 but it does not matter, you need the keycode which is 224 and always same Aug 23 09:26:38 so i did 'setkeycode 1e 224' and then went in to gnome keyboard shortcuts and mapped it to "zoom in" and it shows XF86MonBrightness as the key used for shortcut and when i press A my display zooms in Aug 23 09:26:45 and now i can't type A Aug 23 09:26:51 on that computer Aug 23 09:27:01 so this seems like it should work Aug 23 09:27:34 all you have to do is figure out how to make it control the brightness, probably with the same scripts Aug 23 09:27:59 nope it does not let me assign these keys Aug 23 09:28:10 evtest reports same thing but dmesg is gone now Aug 23 09:28:36 oops Aug 23 09:28:37 i lied Aug 23 09:28:52 evtest reports bot 88/89 and bri up/dow Aug 23 09:29:02 like it does for volume up/down which always worked Aug 23 09:29:12 aside of missing release events Aug 23 09:29:31 well volume up/down is mapped through gnome but brightness up/down seems to be done some other way on my laptop Aug 23 09:29:34 and i cant present the output becase it is not redirectable :| Aug 23 09:29:54 seems to be handled in hardware cos it *always* works Aug 23 09:30:02 even if the machine hangs or something :) Aug 23 09:30:19 as such the "real" brightness control buttons work but my A key remapping does not Aug 23 09:30:26 that's probbly if it is handled by bios Aug 23 09:30:54 but the point is both the "real" button and my A key now send the right keycode to X Aug 23 09:31:02 and i bet even if you map the key to something else it will still control brightnessaside of other functionality Aug 23 09:31:09 yes Aug 23 09:31:13 certainly Aug 23 09:31:25 well in my case evtest shows brightness up, value 2 Aug 23 09:31:35 which is a bit strange Aug 23 09:31:45 since volume shows value 1 on press and value 0 on release Aug 23 09:32:18 now... may be i need to map 224 to 236 now with xmodmap? Aug 23 09:32:31 no Aug 23 09:32:37 i did not need to do it Aug 23 09:32:49 well it stil ldoes not work here Aug 23 09:33:04 and i am confused by what exactly these numbers do represent Aug 23 09:33:15 and why both of us have 2 values to same symbol Aug 23 09:33:31 because X maps things however it wants Aug 23 09:34:18 in that case i think missing release events might be a factor here Aug 23 09:34:36 no Aug 23 09:36:05 heh... obviously i know noting about it... but the suggested approach did not work Aug 23 09:37:06 if you hold down 'A' do you get a key release? no. does X see that you are holding down A? yes. Aug 23 09:38:07 i do get key release for most things Aug 23 09:38:24 specificaly i get them for Fn+left and Fn+right Aug 23 09:38:30 even when you dont release the key? Aug 23 09:38:37 while i dont get them from Fn+up & Fn+down Aug 23 09:38:48 well i get release when it is released Aug 23 09:39:20 actualy Aug 23 09:39:28 type 0 events are release Aug 23 09:39:33 type 1 is press Aug 23 09:39:36 type 2 is hold Aug 23 09:39:42 yes Aug 23 09:39:44 with up/dow i only get hold Aug 23 09:39:54 actually it is repeat Aug 23 09:39:54 with left/right i get press/hold/releae Aug 23 09:40:00 well repeat yes Aug 23 09:40:11 point being no press/release Aug 23 09:41:08 and i see a lot of artciles with Aug 23 09:41:09 #Fix sticking fn keys on samsung laptops, Kernel > 2.6.32 required Aug 23 09:41:09 echo 130,131,132,134,136,137,177,179,247,249 > /sys/devices/platform/i8042/serio0/force_release Aug 23 09:41:18 or similar depending on model Aug 23 09:41:35 well try it Aug 23 09:41:43 well i need to know values :) Aug 23 09:41:52 and release is noce but i dont get press either Aug 23 09:42:43 224,225 Aug 23 09:42:44 my guess would be these are decimal and e008/e008 are hex Aug 23 09:43:04 err... i dont think these are it but i can try Aug 23 09:43:05 88 is hex e008 is hex Aug 23 09:43:32 0x88 is 136 dec Aug 23 09:43:39 136 is in the list ^ Aug 23 09:48:24 http://ktemkin.com/en/ Aug 23 09:48:40 i don't think it's quite your problem Aug 23 09:48:42 it is 136 (so 0x88) and i get release now Aug 23 09:48:48 but no press Aug 23 09:49:38 however release was enough Aug 23 09:49:49 even w/o setkeycodes Aug 23 09:50:11 i mean it is kernel/evdev issue apaprently Aug 23 09:50:14 thanks btw Aug 23 09:52:15 well hallelujah Aug 23 09:52:20 at least something works now Aug 23 09:52:31 one down 598 problems to go Aug 23 09:57:04 and i have very little respect for samsung now after seing how they "fixed euro key" Aug 23 10:14:09 is there any scope of modifying the process scheduleres in meego Aug 23 10:14:44 here, we have less processing power and less memory Aug 23 10:14:57 if you can get one accepted into the upstream kernel Aug 23 10:15:58 sorry, i didn't get you Aug 23 10:16:26 DocScrutinizer, are you ignored here? Aug 23 10:16:29 =) Aug 23 10:16:56 schedulers for processes are controlled by the kernel, and meego works from what exists upstream Aug 23 10:17:23 i got u, thanks Aug 23 10:17:49 #meego-arm to be precise Aug 23 10:41:24 what does abrtd do? Aug 23 10:41:35 makes crash reports probably Aug 23 10:43:07 it fails on every second boot here (i see message on tty1 Aug 23 10:43:19 but i cant find anything about it in syslog Aug 23 10:56:09 Anyone willing to answer a question about QEventLoop::WaitForMoreEvents()? Aug 23 10:56:54 RST38h: just ask Aug 23 10:58:35 When I am calling processEvents() with this argument and there ARE som eevents to process, will it exit immediately after processing those events? Aug 23 11:00:40 RST38h: yes Aug 23 11:00:44 cool Aug 23 11:01:12 * Stskeeps ponders idly why people are so offended by statements by people that has no control over their topic, just because they have a @company.com mail and assume that's the area manager's opinion Aug 23 11:01:39 i guess organisational chart would be useful at times Aug 23 11:01:40 :P Aug 23 11:02:07 Stskeeps: Because noone knows if J. Bloggs is really senior architecturally within the project, within @company or within their area Aug 23 11:02:21 Jaffa: that is a problem, yeah Aug 23 11:02:21 who is J Bloggs ? ;) Aug 23 11:02:55 Stskeeps: And so if they send mail stating something categorically, without saying "I think...", it will be taken as the position of @company - especially if they are then not contradicted by someone who is known to be senior Aug 23 11:03:20 * Jaffa wonders if yerga's tweet was the start of this... Aug 23 11:03:25 yes, it was Aug 23 11:03:51 it is even more interesting as sdk is a joint effort, application sdk mostly spearheaded by nokia Aug 23 11:04:20 Stskeeps: The mail linked to is from someone I thought was senior architecturally at the project, and at @company. Aug 23 11:05:19 Stskeeps: I haven't rechecked the thread, but did someone say "As owner of the application SDK, we want to target as many platforms as possible; and bypass issues across multiple platforms as much as possible. Sometimes, it's necessary to debug on-device, but many apps can go the whole way through their development cycle without needing that."? Aug 23 11:06:05 Stskeeps: All I see is corporate employees busy antagonizing another developer Aug 23 11:06:17 Jaffa: auke is to be listened to in regards to boot phases and general optimization (uxlaunch, sreadahead, fastboot philosophy), but senior architecturally is the four horsemen (arjan, sakari, etc) Aug 23 11:06:36 also, this is on meego-community, not -sdk.. Aug 23 11:06:43 Stskeeps: So, whoever that Auke guy is, if the end result is antagonizing Yerga, he is doing harm to the project Aug 23 11:07:15 RST38h: not disagreeing Aug 23 11:07:32 ooh, i'm getting meego bugmail Aug 23 11:07:39 Stskeeps: What is more amusing is that it has become a pattern now Aug 23 11:07:50 Jaffa: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2681 Aug 23 11:08:10 (notice assigned to) Aug 23 11:08:13 would really appreciate help figuring out why X unloads tocuhpad driver (and hence i dont get scrolling and other multitouch gois working) Aug 23 11:08:15 and http://bugs.meego.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=2681&hide_resolved=1 Aug 23 11:08:17 http://dpaste.com/232754/ Aug 23 11:09:52 Phazorx: your touchpad is perhaps not supported py synaptics Aug 23 11:09:56 did you tried with evdev ? Aug 23 11:11:00 Ok, done with events processing, I guess Aug 23 11:11:17 Anyone willing to recommend the fastest way to blit bitmaps to the screen in Qt? Aug 23 11:14:03 Actually, just getting direct pointer to the window contents will suffice Aug 23 11:15:10 vlj: what do you mean not supported by synaptics.. it's made by them Aug 23 11:15:30 and i dont know how to try it with evdev i guess Aug 23 11:19:12 changing it in /etc/X11/xorg.conf Aug 23 11:19:28 there is no xorg.conf in meego Aug 23 11:19:31 I can use QCanvas inside MeegoTouch API, right? Aug 23 11:19:36 Or can't I? Aug 23 11:20:05 Phazorx: as long as some third party app writes one Aug 23 11:20:37 vlj: why would i need one anyway isnt it supposed to be autoconfigured nowadays? Aug 23 11:26:23 hmm... nice Aug 23 11:26:32 how can i kill X w/o keyboard? Aug 23 11:26:40 ssh Aug 23 11:26:41 you can't :p Aug 23 11:27:01 except if you manage to get a virtual keyboard Aug 23 11:27:10 no ssh it's meego Aug 23 11:27:19 and wasnt there a killx script? Aug 23 11:40:46 Phazorx: um, why no ssh? Aug 23 11:45:36 meego has ssh Aug 23 11:50:13 ssh may be Aug 23 11:50:14 sshd no Aug 23 11:50:54 and this is really silly now - how can i get to console and prevent X from loading Aug 23 11:51:12 without a keyboard?? Aug 23 11:51:19 since having input taken over by not wokring kbd driver - there is no way to get back to console after they load Aug 23 11:51:51 ctrl-alt-f1 even doesn't work? Aug 23 11:51:53 ali1234: keyboard is there, but only before xorg starts Aug 23 11:52:05 can you plug in another usb keyboard maybe? Aug 23 11:52:18 ali even numlock and ctrl-alt-del and ctrl-alt-bksp does not work Aug 23 11:52:26 dont have a usb one Aug 23 11:52:47 well ctrl-alt-backspace might be disabled... Aug 23 11:53:05 that actualy wold not matter Aug 23 11:53:13 mouse works? Aug 23 11:53:19 touchpad does Aug 23 11:53:32 start a terminal and copy paste 'chvt 1' from webpages/other windows Aug 23 11:53:48 was thinking abou hat Aug 23 11:53:51 but there is another issue Aug 23 11:53:53 you can middle click on touchpad right? Aug 23 11:54:17 ali1234: nope that i cant do... but issue i am faced with is differnt Aug 23 11:54:29 since connman fails to autoconnect - i need to retype wpa2 key Aug 23 11:54:33 before i can get to net Aug 23 11:54:43 and copy something from there Aug 23 11:55:15 help files? Aug 23 11:55:49 you need root to chvt anyway, and you might not be able to copy paste to a sudo password prompt Aug 23 11:56:35 nice Aug 23 11:56:39 RST38h, how fast does it work doing it at the moment Aug 23 11:56:44 ie, what have you tried Aug 23 11:56:46 is there a killx script i can click on? Aug 23 11:57:21 or prvent x from loading at extlinux stage? Aug 23 11:57:32 i suspect killing X might just cause it to load back up or just down the whole machine Aug 23 11:58:05 tin old days killing x would just kill x... Aug 23 11:58:55 would sighuping it work? Aug 23 11:59:02 i can get pid Aug 23 11:59:04 no idea Aug 23 11:59:16 this is bizarre issue Aug 23 11:59:35 anywa lunch time Aug 23 12:00:13 hmm i have an idea Aug 23 12:00:27 turn off X security on some other server Aug 23 12:00:47 then run DISPLAY=whatever:0 xterm Aug 23 12:01:03 now oyu have a shell on your netbook on the other machine Aug 23 12:02:12 if you run chvt 1 in that shell netbook should go to first console :) Aug 23 12:02:36 lcuk: does not work yet, it is an initial implementation Aug 23 12:06:46 RST38h, so try and get something working using normal qpainter stuff and see how it turns out? Aug 23 12:07:00 then come back seeking alternatives if it doesn't perform as expected Aug 23 12:07:05 lcuk: Don't be silly, what QPainter? Aug 23 12:07:22 lcuk: I am not painting/drawing anything, just blitting a ready made image buffer Aug 23 12:07:45 http://doc.trolltech.com/latest/qpainter.html#drawPixmap Aug 23 12:08:07 how can I post "raw" file in wiki ? Aug 23 12:08:32 maybe drawImage is more appropriate Aug 23 12:08:49 ali1234: yea, and I can draw images in just about any widget Aug 23 12:09:04 setBackground() or setPixmap() or something Aug 23 12:09:12 yeah, cos they all inherit it from some place :) Aug 23 12:10:22 the idea is to do it quickly though Aug 23 12:10:23 setBackground doesn't do what you think it does Aug 23 12:11:06 RST38h, sigh, qpainter gives the drawimage stuff with a context to blit onto, without it you don't have a destination* Aug 23 12:11:12 Hmm...ok Aug 23 12:11:19 So it is like allocating a Gc Aug 23 12:11:27 or an HDC in Windoze Aug 23 12:11:37 yes, similar principle afaik Aug 23 12:11:47 Good first step indeed Aug 23 12:11:48 =) Aug 23 12:11:48 the windows Qt backend is probably doing exactly that Aug 23 12:25:44 lcuk: Stupid question: is it possible to compile stuff using MeegoTouch in Maemo5? Aug 23 12:26:07 I have made an EMULib wrapper for MeegoTouch/Qt, but need to test it Aug 23 12:26:23 at present there are some dependency issues afaik Aug 23 12:26:32 * lcuk is doing other dependencies for something else atm Aug 23 12:26:35 so cannot confirm Aug 23 12:26:57 I have also one Qt wrapper emulib wrapper :) Aug 23 12:27:12 lcuk: But if I do it in plain qt, I am fine? Aug 23 12:27:23 should be, qt4.7 is in devel at present Aug 23 12:29:01 RST38h: can you give me a /msg when you have some benchmarks about the Qpixmap blit? :) Aug 23 12:30:38 Summeli: I am not doing any QPixmap blits Aug 23 12:30:57 RST38h: me neither, it wasn't really working on symbian Aug 23 12:31:09 Summeli, perhaps if you have a working example, you should be the one messaging RST38h to let him have a peek through the sources Aug 23 12:31:18 so you 2 can compare notes Aug 23 12:32:59 * RST38h has no notes to compare either Aug 23 12:34:09 lcuk: I burried the QPixmap based blit too soon to share notes :P Aug 23 12:34:14 maybe I should work it a bit further Aug 23 12:34:59 * thiago is tracking down gaps in the Qt presentations at MeeGo conference Aug 23 12:35:05 anything people would like to see presented? Aug 23 12:35:14 thiago: what's being presented? :) Aug 23 12:35:15 Qt Quick is well taken care of Aug 23 12:35:20 i guess "how to draw pixmaps as fast as possible" thiago Aug 23 12:35:24 timeless_mbp: http://conference2010.meego.com/program Aug 23 12:35:38 lcuk: draw onto pixmaps or blit them? Aug 23 12:35:43 thiago: Qt only list please? :) Aug 23 12:36:00 (seriously, imagine you're a guy only interested in Qt, surely you should be able to see a list of only Qt topics) Aug 23 12:36:01 thiago, ask RST38h and Summeli - they are the ones discussing Aug 23 12:36:02 timeless_mbp: the search field requires 3 letters Aug 23 12:36:10 fail Aug 23 12:36:19 thiago: http://conference2010.meego.com/session/qt-certification-exams-conference-participatns Aug 23 12:36:20 we should rename the library Aug 23 12:36:23 thats quite classy Aug 23 12:36:28 thinks someone could try spelling "participants" correctly? Aug 23 12:36:35 perhaps exceptions to the search could be made Aug 23 12:36:36 timeless_mbp: I'll tell vladimir Aug 23 12:37:03 thiago: does Qt do multimedia? Aug 23 12:37:12 yes Aug 23 12:37:18 oh, you're serious about the 3 letter fail Aug 23 12:37:18 there are even two frameworks for that Aug 23 12:37:20 that's awesome Aug 23 12:37:27 yeah um. Aug 23 12:37:31 * lcuk has thoughts for presentation but I get scared standing up there Aug 23 12:37:33 someone give me an actual list i can work through? Aug 23 12:37:45 just tell me what you'd like see presented Aug 23 12:37:47 having to click on 6+ links just to find stuff i care about is not fair Aug 23 12:37:48 never mind what's there Aug 23 12:38:08 hello Aug 23 12:38:08 lcuk: please tell kate to spell UI with a capital I: MeeGo handset Ui toolkits Aug 23 12:38:24 oh brother Aug 23 12:38:29 MeeGo TV - Supporting Pay TV in an Open source environement Aug 23 12:38:34 too many e's in that last word Aug 23 12:38:46 we should fine people for not using a spell checker on their presentation topics Aug 23 12:39:09 thiago: what do you have for multimedia? Aug 23 12:39:10 probably French Aug 23 12:39:12 and for html5? Aug 23 12:39:14 can submissions even be edited ? Aug 23 12:39:16 timeless_mbp: or you could stand up mid-presentation and go "I think you'll find that word only had one E in it" Aug 23 12:39:20 lcuk: i'm told so Aug 23 12:39:25 timeless_mbp: Phonon and QtMultimedia. But no talks on either. Aug 23 12:39:25 reasonable Aug 23 12:39:30 lcuk: the author can edit them Aug 23 12:39:46 thiago: i think that for a mobile platform to not have any talks on multimedia seems kinda bad Aug 23 12:39:51 can you argue otherwise? Aug 23 12:39:59 can't argue with that Aug 23 12:40:00 I am new and I am having some problems building meego, I get "Error: failed to create image : Unable to install: [('file /usr/share/icons/hicolor/icon-theme.cache conflicts between attempted installs of meego-handset-icon-theme-0.0.4-3.8.noarch and hicolor-icon-theme-0.12-4.6.noarch', (6, '/usr/share/icons/hicolor/icon-theme.cache', 0L))", can someone enlighten me? Aug 23 12:40:04 for maemo we've always had talks on MAFW Aug 23 12:40:08 and friends Aug 23 12:40:10 there's a Grilo talk Aug 23 12:40:22 if you correct the spelling on someone's presentation, what if they then struggle to read it when presenting? Aug 23 12:40:26 newbie: hildon isn't part of meego Aug 23 12:40:30 you'll have to make it lose somehow Aug 23 12:40:36 possibly w/ a diversion Aug 23 12:40:50 thiago, one specific thing, for people using devices, please give opportunity to let them be tested beforehand Aug 23 12:40:55 or just removing the file from the package Aug 23 12:41:01 timeless_mbp: hildon? It says hicolor. Aug 23 12:41:03 lcuk++ Aug 23 12:41:04 * lcuk had videoout fail using hardware last year Aug 23 12:41:11 lcuk: sorry? Aug 23 12:41:12 thiago: hicolor-icon-theme-0.12 Aug 23 12:41:15 oh Aug 23 12:41:16 oops Aug 23 12:41:19 * timeless_mbp sighs Aug 23 12:41:21 thiago, for the actual presentations, when people arrive Aug 23 12:41:21 ah, you mean at the event? Aug 23 12:41:23 and before their talks Aug 23 12:41:28 yeah, sure Aug 23 12:41:31 sorry, i spend way too much time thinking about hildon Aug 23 12:41:32 make sure there is a mechanism to allow them to be tested Aug 23 12:41:32 lcuk: Should have gone with a windoze laptop and powerpoint Aug 23 12:41:37 but I'm not talking here as part of the organisation Aug 23 12:41:38 urg Aug 23 12:41:42 we were at maemo summit Aug 23 12:41:42 I'm talking with my Qt PM hat Aug 23 12:41:44 with maemo devices Aug 23 12:42:09 newbie: actually, in that case you'll probably want to make handset win Aug 23 12:42:16 which again requires a diversion or equiv Aug 23 12:42:24 lcuk: and i had to do my first Mer presentation on a XP cd.. Aug 23 12:42:28 er, XP computer Aug 23 12:42:36 yes Stskeeps indeed Aug 23 12:42:53 qole kinda started this fashion with presentations in OOo on easy debian Aug 23 12:42:57 thiago: oh, please make sure they have mac support for presentations :) Aug 23 12:43:07 timeless_mbp: sure, will have to happen Aug 23 12:43:11 too many people using macs Aug 23 12:43:22 please also - anyone in US who is doing presentations from their device: Select PAL for video out Aug 23 12:43:27 and someone should make sure badges have names in large letters on both sides Aug 23 12:43:35 lcuk: that needs to be posted somewhere else Aug 23 12:43:36 * thiago wishes meego-netbook contained OOo Aug 23 12:43:42 then I could use my netbook for the presentation Aug 23 12:43:45 preferably in a way people could understand how to fix it Aug 23 12:44:21 yes, I am just talking as I see things here, I have another window full of lists of things and my head is melting with it Aug 23 12:44:30 ok :) Aug 23 12:44:44 Stskeeps, lcuk: Well, XP computers do work for presentations. With the rest, you are always taking chances Aug 23 12:45:08 RST38h: that's true Aug 23 12:45:12 thiago: is there a Qt L10n talk? Aug 23 12:45:18 RST38h, yes I know Aug 23 12:45:21 because i'm pretty sure people need to know, and i don't know Aug 23 12:45:25 timeless_mbp: there's a meegotouch l10n one at least Aug 23 12:45:26 timeless_mbp: there's an l10n talk already, but focussing on MTF Aug 23 12:45:33 MTF? Aug 23 12:45:50 MeeGo Translation Framework? Aug 23 12:45:50 Meego touch framework Aug 23 12:45:59 ok, so that doesn't do it for me Aug 23 12:46:04 Qt-L10n please? Aug 23 12:46:17 timeless_mbp: I am not sure what you mean, I am using a kickstart file pointing to repo core and handset Aug 23 12:46:17 or at least consider it Aug 23 12:46:30 newbie: you'll either need to exclude a package from core Aug 23 12:46:42 or change the handset package to divert the file Aug 23 12:46:50 to figure out how to do diversions you'll have to learn about rpm Aug 23 12:46:52 (i don't know) Aug 23 12:47:08 and to exclude a file, you'll have to read about how your kickstart stuff words Aug 23 12:47:31 newbie: you can't just randomly merge stuff and: 1. expect it to work and 2. expect people to give you all the answers :) Aug 23 12:47:50 thiago: "http://conference2010.meego.com/session/qt-network-stack" is a bit light on content... Aug 23 12:48:07 timeless_mbp: did you read the abstract? Aug 23 12:48:11 the summary is empty Aug 23 12:48:26 I am surprised we didn't have thumbs up/down voting for the talks community wants to see ;) Aug 23 12:48:27 no, it didn't occur to me that they'd be different Aug 23 12:48:31 it would make selection easier :P Aug 23 12:48:36 but i'm going to thumbs down anything which doesn't have a summary Aug 23 12:48:52 o_O can we already? Aug 23 12:48:58 * lcuk didnt see the interface for that when looking Aug 23 12:49:48 timeless_mbp: thanks, I'll read more on how the kickstart thing work. Aug 23 12:50:11 Stskeeps: Does Meego have /dev/fb* BTW? Aug 23 12:50:15 thiago: it'd be vaguely nice for someone to talk about how roadmaps work Aug 23 12:50:21 like how things end up on the Qt roadmap Aug 23 12:50:23 timeless_mbp: MeeGo roadmaps or Qt roadmaps? Aug 23 12:50:23 RST38h: depending on device Aug 23 12:50:24 ah, that Aug 23 12:50:26 good Aug 23 12:50:28 RST38h: i don't think it's ensured Aug 23 12:50:28 that'd be me Aug 23 12:50:30 Stskeeps: N900? Aug 23 12:50:34 I'm writing my abstracts now Aug 23 12:50:37 RST38h: we have fbcon, so that'd be a yes Aug 23 12:50:41 RST38h: we even have chvt Aug 23 12:50:41 :P Aug 23 12:50:43 goood Aug 23 12:50:47 thiago: MeeGo roadmaps too, but i'll settle for what you can give Aug 23 12:51:02 * timeless_mbp sighs Aug 23 12:51:13 and could someone please teach the conference people how to count? Aug 23 12:51:20 i'm on a page and at the bottom it has "5" in Pink Aug 23 12:51:23 the url is: Aug 23 12:51:24 http://conference2010.meego.com/program?page=4 Aug 23 12:51:25 timeless_mbp: 1, 2, 4, Aug 23 12:51:25 ... Aug 23 12:51:44 thiago: i think they start "1 is 0, 2 is 1, 3 is 2, 4 is 3, 5 is 5" Aug 23 12:51:54 s/5 is 5/5 is 4/ Aug 23 12:51:55 timeless_mbp meant: thiago: i think they start "1 is 0, 2 is 1, 3 is 2, 4 is 3, 5 is 4" Aug 23 12:51:58 Stskeeps: Need a fallback mechanism in case this Qt stuff ends up being too slow Aug 23 12:51:58 good bot Aug 23 12:52:12 RST38h: OpenGL Aug 23 12:52:22 thiago: is someone covering Qt-OpenGL? Aug 23 12:52:28 or is anyone covering OpenGL ES? Aug 23 12:52:33 there's nothing to cover there Aug 23 12:52:47 "it just works", "it'll never work" ? Aug 23 12:52:48 we don't have opengl? Aug 23 12:52:52 there are many good books on OpenGL, and you shouldn't go to a MeeGo conference to learn OpenGL Aug 23 12:52:54 timeless_mbp: kate is Aug 23 12:53:08 Stskeeps: please poke kate about the above Ui botch :) Aug 23 12:53:08 kate is doing qt-mobility Aug 23 12:53:11 as for Qt's support for OpenGL, it's quite simple: it gives you a GL surface and then you play :-) Aug 23 12:53:19 what could be interesting are the helper tools and 3D enablers Aug 23 12:53:23 things like QMatrix4x4 Aug 23 12:53:32 thiago: Direct fb* access works faster than OpenGL. Aug 23 12:53:36 timeless_mbp: opengl es Aug 23 12:53:37 ok, i've now read the list of summaries Aug 23 12:53:42 and perf differences between n900 and netbook Aug 23 12:53:47 lcuk: only if you don't have a good GL chip and driver Aug 23 12:53:48 optimsing experience on both Aug 23 12:53:49 thiago: got a handy list of Qt modules? Aug 23 12:54:02 timeless_mbp: doc.trolltech.com/latest Aug 23 12:54:02 something i could shop from to tell you what interests me but that i didn't see listed? Aug 23 12:54:09 * timeless_mbp clicks Aug 23 12:54:55 erm Aug 23 12:55:02 RST38h: only if you don't have a good GL chip and driver Aug 23 12:55:14 RST38h: using /dev/fb* you still have the bus bandwidth issue Aug 23 12:55:17 thiago: Which (surprise!) I do not have Aug 23 12:55:27 thiago: will meego support printing? Aug 23 12:55:33 a 800x480 screen has ay require 1.5 MB of data per frame Aug 23 12:55:33 thiago: Correct, but less of it Aug 23 12:55:50 calculate how much data you need to transmit at 30 or 60 fps Aug 23 12:56:04 a good GL driver will get the ops done on the GPU already Aug 23 12:56:12 timeless_mbp: printing to PDF at least :-) Aug 23 12:56:17 thiago: And that will be the bare minimum I would have to transmit if I were using OpenGLES. Aug 23 12:56:24 timeless_mbp: but I see no reason why not. Print to Bluetooth printer. Aug 23 12:56:30 RST38h: commands only Aug 23 12:56:33 thiago: i didn't see any coverage in the talks Aug 23 12:56:38 timeless_mbp: no Aug 23 12:56:40 thiago: I do not think you understand what exactly I am doing Aug 23 12:56:43 if it's something we expect meego to do, perhaps it should be covered Aug 23 12:56:46 if not, that's alright Aug 23 12:56:48 thiago: So let us just drop this :) Aug 23 12:57:06 RST38h: you aren't trying to be a troll? :) Aug 23 12:57:27 thiago: i don't think i saw qt-multitouch Aug 23 12:57:35 timeless_mbp: we don't have to have everything in the first conference :-) Aug 23 12:57:35 if i missed it, then i think someone's talk needs to be retitled Aug 23 12:57:40 RST38h: why can't you skip the intermediate (emulated) framebuffer entirely, and draw individual pixels with GL commands? Aug 23 12:57:42 timeless_mbp: I didn't either Aug 23 12:57:48 thiago: fair enough, printing can be at the 3rd conference Aug 23 12:57:51 * thiago writes down to ask someone to talk about it Aug 23 12:58:05 timeless_mbp: besides, if it just works, what's there to talk about? :-) Aug 23 12:58:12 =b Aug 23 12:58:22 RST38h: i'm pretty sure eg spectrum couldn't do full motion video, so why do you need to redraw the entire frame every time? Aug 23 12:58:27 unlike Qt 4.5 for Maemo 5, QPrinter will not be disabled Aug 23 12:58:32 ali1234: Because it will be a few orders of magnitude slower than rendering them directly Aug 23 12:58:42 thiago: ouch. touche Aug 23 12:58:44 timeless_mbp: wow, printing might actually work for handset? :P Aug 23 12:58:46 have you actually tried it? Aug 23 12:58:51 Stskeeps: Fennec has it Aug 23 12:58:52 ali1234: Again, you do not know what I am doing Aug 23 12:58:53 and yeah, it just works Aug 23 12:58:54 RST38h, with the small emulators, writing to a texture and scaling up will remove the bandwidth issue anyway Aug 23 12:59:06 (to PDF as w/ everything else) Aug 23 12:59:09 RST38h: i know exactly what you are doing, you are emulating a framebuffer for your emulators Aug 23 12:59:12 timeless_mbp: as long as CUPS is installed, it should work Aug 23 12:59:21 lcuk: Except it causes pretty nasty scaling issues Aug 23 12:59:21 timeless_mbp: the only thing missing is CUPS finding the printers Aug 23 12:59:41 * timeless_mbp worries Aug 23 12:59:52 as mobile devices, you shouldn't have to configure printers Aug 23 12:59:52 my n81 8g keeps asking me which of 4 profiles to use w/ a usb power adapter Aug 23 12:59:54 lcuk: But yes, that is one way it can be done. Does not appear to be significantly faster than the CPU based routines I currently have Aug 23 12:59:57 RST38h: another thing to consider is that if you blit direct to framebuffer you need to send 800x480x16bit but if you use GL to draw it you need send only the native size and depth of the emulated device Aug 23 13:00:06 * Stskeeps waits on his qt build for armv7 to show how much performance we actually lose cos of the CXXFLAGS mangling Aug 23 13:00:14 sadly, that doesn't involve actually *charging*.. Aug 23 13:00:27 Stskeeps: check that the flags were used. Qt doesn't like the $CXXFLAGS env variable. Aug 23 13:00:49 thiago: well, meego ARM qt is unoptimized atm cos of mangling Aug 23 13:00:50 RST38h, did you ever see a way to change the native framebuffer to lower resolution - like I can do with xvideo? Aug 23 13:01:12 lcuk: No, it is kinda unfriendly to the system, causes all kinds of problems Aug 23 13:01:17 thiago: so i'm checking how big impact this problem actually has Aug 23 13:01:18 ie open a screen at (for instance) 640*480) and have it stretch dynamically by lcd hardware Aug 23 13:01:30 thiago: (not a qt packaging problem) Aug 23 13:01:30 lcuk: But I did use double-magnification on Diablo, in full screen mode, it worked Aug 23 13:01:31 RST38h, forgetting other system problems, is that feasible Aug 23 13:01:43 lcuk: With XVideo, it probably is Aug 23 13:01:46 Stskeeps: was it in release mode at least? Aug 23 13:01:48 Stskeeps: i.e., -O2 Aug 23 13:01:51 * lcuk can happily switch overlay between various sizes Aug 23 13:01:56 lcuk: But XVideo has no RGB planes Aug 23 13:02:02 but xvideo just sends ioctls down the line Aug 23 13:02:10 xvideo has rgb mode Aug 23 13:02:13 afaik Aug 23 13:02:19 lcuk: Did not work for me, I tried Aug 23 13:02:22 ok Aug 23 13:02:29 lcuk: Anyway, direct fb access works Aug 23 13:02:36 yeah direct fb access Aug 23 13:02:39 thiago: anyway, i think that's enough topics Aug 23 13:02:44 but if there was a way to specify a lower res Aug 23 13:02:45 but you really need to get a better search ui Aug 23 13:02:46 lcuk: I may try opengles again some time down the line Aug 23 13:02:48 lower data == faster etc Aug 23 13:02:50 so one can actually browse the Qt topics Aug 23 13:02:53 that was a disaster Aug 23 13:02:59 timeless_mbp: as for the roadmap, I was thinking that it would be two sessions: one talk for presenting the roadmap and one BoF for discussing it Aug 23 13:03:11 lcuk: The opengles thing sounds like the simplest way to achieve that, except that it isn't necessarily faster Aug 23 13:03:19 thiago: sounds good Aug 23 13:03:33 yeah because the opengl MUST send its data down the line as full res final image Aug 23 13:03:33 thiago: btw that page you linked me to Aug 23 13:03:38 it has a really bad layout Aug 23 13:03:38 I am trying to see a way round that Aug 23 13:03:42 lcuk: You spend lot of time loading textures Aug 23 13:03:44 Copyright © 2010 Nokia Corporation and/or its subsidiary( Aug 23 13:03:47 sure Aug 23 13:03:47 -ies) Aug 23 13:03:54 wrapped as above ^ Aug 23 13:03:54 thiago: yeah, O2, but no march=armv7-a -mtune=cortex-a8 -mlittle-endian -mfpu=vfpv3 -mfloat-abi=softfp -D__SOFTFP__ Aug 23 13:04:00 timeless_mbp: see updated: http://doc.trolltech.com/4.7-snapshot/ Aug 23 13:04:02 err Aug 23 13:04:07 Copyright © 2010 Nokia Corporation and/or its subsidiary(- Aug 23 13:04:08 ies) Aug 23 13:04:09 lcuk: The final image thing is not a problem it happens separately from you Aug 23 13:04:14 ^ wrapped that way, sorry. Aug 23 13:04:21 lcuk: It is setting the texture that takes most time Aug 23 13:04:24 how do i print in sed selective field (ws separated)? Aug 23 13:04:37 http://doc.trolltech.com/4.7-snapshot/modules.html Aug 23 13:04:40 Stskeeps: using -platform armv6 to configure? Aug 23 13:04:40 i was thinking something close to 'p 2' for printing 2nd word Aug 23 13:04:41 QtMultimedia isn't a link? Aug 23 13:04:54 lcuk: Apparently, it is not really accelerated in any way, and TI even wanrs about performance issues in its examples/docs Aug 23 13:04:54 Stskeeps: i.e., Qt Arch "armv6" as opposed to "arm" Aug 23 13:04:55 RST38h, if your screen is never using final large size Aug 23 13:04:57 thiago: not sure Aug 23 13:05:00 then everything else is a waste Aug 23 13:05:09 ie, if your emu is only at 320*200 Aug 23 13:05:11 Stskeeps: configure must have -platform or -xplatform armv6 Aug 23 13:05:16 lcuk: In N900, there is no such thing as screen resolution Aug 23 13:05:22 thiago: and the line spacing on the 4.7-snapshot page w/ Safari is bad (too little spacing between lines) Aug 23 13:05:22 * lcuk has it Aug 23 13:05:28 lcuk: Your XVideo overlay is an opengles texture afaik Aug 23 13:05:32 no its not Aug 23 13:05:33 Cross-platform and Platform- Aug 23 13:05:34 specific Aug 23 13:05:36 it bypasses opengl Aug 23 13:05:39 completely Aug 23 13:05:45 lcuk: In N8x0, you could set screen resolution by tweaking Blizzard Aug 23 13:05:46 the last i from the last line nearly runs into the first p from the previous line Aug 23 13:05:49 thiago: -platform linux-g++ \ Aug 23 13:05:57 well RST38h thats similar to what i am thinking here Aug 23 13:05:57 Stskeeps: without that, Qt uses slower atomics, which are WAY worse Aug 23 13:05:58 omapfb has xvideo support according this patch: http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-omap@vger.kernel.org/msg07271.html Aug 23 13:05:59 Hi all Aug 23 13:06:03 lcuk: Sure about it? What device? What ioctl()s? Aug 23 13:06:04 dunno if it is in mainline Aug 23 13:06:12 also dunno if it is done in hardware or not Aug 23 13:06:12 Stskeeps: sorry, -arch armv6 Aug 23 13:06:26 Stskeeps: I'm getting the options confused Aug 23 13:06:31 RST38h, if it used opengl it would be compositable and would work via the dashboard Aug 23 13:06:41 thiago: i see no -arch Aug 23 13:06:45 lcuk: Mmm...not necessarily Aug 23 13:06:56 thiago: in meego qt build Aug 23 13:07:08 Stskeeps: do have access to the configure output? Aug 23 13:07:16 thiago: yes, sec Aug 23 13:08:08 Stskeeps: let me find out what you need to search for Aug 23 13:08:18 -arch isn't passed Aug 23 13:08:37 RST38h, the xvideo overlay completely bypasses opengl afaik, I believe it works in systems without any of the powervr bins, but cannot confirm Aug 23 13:08:54 thiago: http://pastebin.com/dsG8Le2T Aug 23 13:08:57 lcuk: Mmm...it does work on non-N900 hw of course Aug 23 13:09:07 lcuk: But depending on the system it uses different hardware Aug 23 13:09:33 lcuk: On x86 it will use extra image planes provided by the video controller Aug 23 13:09:47 crap, my sysroot is broken Aug 23 13:09:54 /home/tmacieir/.madde/arm-2010q1/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/4.4.1/../../../../arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: crt1.o: No such file: No such file or directory Aug 23 13:10:21 it says "arm" Aug 23 13:10:26 please pass the -arch armv6 option Aug 23 13:10:36 it's using the slower armv5 atomics and indirects Aug 23 13:10:42 do you have a decent one for the armv5 variant? Aug 23 13:10:51 it's slower Aug 23 13:11:01 anyways, I won;t be able to try this until I switch from MeegoTouch to plain Qt Aug 23 13:11:07 well, i mean like, what's the armv5 equivalent of -arch? Aug 23 13:11:07 :P Aug 23 13:11:16 "arm" Aug 23 13:11:24 it's the one that is selected right now Aug 23 13:11:24 k Aug 23 13:11:29 Stskeeps: current one :) Aug 23 13:11:53 it uses the kernel-provided solution Aug 23 13:12:08 thiago: how does it detect armv6 ordinarily? Aug 23 13:12:22 it doesn't Aug 23 13:12:25 ah Aug 23 13:12:31 you have to tell it to use, via the -arch armv6 option Aug 23 13:12:39 we need to add an armv7 one though Aug 23 13:12:42 well, that might help our performance a tad more then Aug 23 13:12:58 * fabo is fixing Aug 23 13:13:04 probably a lot Aug 23 13:13:15 the only thing worse than the atomics is inlining Aug 23 13:13:58 * thiago can't ssh into his prototype Aug 23 13:14:10 it's monday afterall Aug 23 13:14:44 sshd not responding... Aug 23 13:14:46 where's the xterm Aug 23 13:15:43 rebooting Aug 23 13:22:35 with the "arm" architecture, Qt uses a restartable cmpxchg that Linux provides in EABI Aug 23 13:22:36 I just had a bloody quick shave, by that i mean I rushed it and I'm now bleeding Aug 23 13:23:08 CosmoHill: tmi Aug 23 13:23:30 there was a quiet spot Aug 23 13:23:37 see http://lwn.net/Articles/314561/ Aug 23 13:24:43 does the armv6 arch setting need -march=armv7-a and such? Aug 23 13:24:56 yes Aug 23 13:25:08 that only affects the atomics, not the options to the compiler Aug 23 13:25:18 does qt add that itself? Aug 23 13:26:50 no Aug 23 13:26:52 are boost included in meego ? Aug 23 13:27:00 compiler flags are only set in the mkspec Aug 23 13:27:02 boost c++ libs Aug 23 13:27:08 the -arch flag is to set the processor Aug 23 13:27:11 they're orthogonal Aug 23 13:27:15 k Aug 23 13:27:21 so compile will break because -march=armv7-a isn't in compiler flags? :P Aug 23 13:27:25 (or armv6 Aug 23 13:27:44 -arch armv6 enables the ARMv6 ldrex and strex instructions needed for proper atomics Aug 23 13:28:08 without them (in -arch arm), Qt makes a call to 0xffff0fc0 and lets the kernel do the job Aug 23 13:28:38 the kernel has the code there, so it's not that bad, but it's still a function call Aug 23 13:28:52 and the atomics are therefore implemented in terms of cmpxchg, instead of the proper LL/SC semantics Aug 23 13:28:57 :nod: Aug 23 13:29:30 the armv6 arch has LL/SC. For ARMv7, we need to add the memory barrier instructions. Aug 23 13:29:59 ARM is like Itanium there Aug 23 13:30:42 or more like PowerPC, which also has LL/SC instructions and one for memory barrier: eieio Aug 23 13:30:54 * TSCHAKeee chuckles Aug 23 13:31:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EIEIO Aug 23 13:56:02 Stskeeps: should we be submitting BoF proposals now? Aug 23 13:56:56 thiago: i think it can't harm - there's already some BoF suggested on interesting topics Aug 23 13:57:15 perhaps lightning talk call should include BoF's as well Aug 23 14:23:23 Stskeeps: http://build.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=qt&project=devel:qt-mtf&repository=testing Aug 23 14:23:42 thiago: /tmp/ccUbijb7.s:308: Error: selected processor does not support `ldrex r2,[r7]' Aug 23 14:23:53 fabo: yes, it's related to the CXXFLAGS mangling Aug 23 14:24:09 fabo: home:cvm:optqt is something i'm working on in that regard Aug 23 14:25:22 Stskeeps: the only difference on this build is -arch armv6 Aug 23 14:25:26 fabo: yes Aug 23 14:25:40 fabo: it can't build it cos we're actually optimizing for what is gcc's ARM baseline Aug 23 14:25:44 cos of .. sec Aug 23 14:25:46 I'll comment in the meantime Aug 23 14:26:27 fabo: well, we know it used the right instruction at least :-) Aug 23 14:26:47 we want to use ldrex Aug 23 14:26:54 fabo: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5420 , http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5592 Aug 23 14:27:30 yep Aug 23 14:27:40 that's one of the fixes i'm testing out atm in home:cvm:optqt Aug 23 14:33:09 kaitlin_: ping Aug 23 14:35:34 fabo: Hello =) Aug 23 14:36:24 kaitlin_: Hi Kaitlin :) Aug 23 14:37:06 kaitlin_: I would like to push a patch for Qt Mobility. It will update QtContacts API to 1.1 Aug 23 14:37:57 kaitlin_: it seems some developers started to use some API not released with 1.0.2 ... Aug 23 14:38:46 I've heard of some interest in some of the newer APIs. Aug 23 14:39:09 kaitlin_: to avoid to block them, I can update the API. I tested if it doesn't break previous application using QtContacts 1.0.2 Aug 23 14:39:48 kaitlin_: not the best scenario but I would like to hear your opinion before commiting this changes Aug 23 14:39:51 http://dpaste.com/232754/ << how can i prevent Xorg from dropping synaptics driver? Aug 23 14:39:55 fabo: I think that's fine. As long as it doesn't break existing functionality, I think we're fine to carry a patch for awhile. Aug 23 14:40:37 kaitlin_: ok, sounds good then Aug 23 14:41:06 i kinda need the module for touchpad to function properly and using http://andreascarpino.it/2010/04/xorg-1-8-synaptics-touchpad-configuration/ kills the keyboard and brings no joy whatsoever Aug 23 14:41:13 I can do some testing today too if you'd like. Aug 23 14:41:32 fabo: But if you tested it, then I think we're good to go. Aug 23 14:42:35 kaitlin_: bernd pushed this changes also, so I count on him for the testing too :) Aug 23 14:43:37 I don't think we have that many applications using the contacts api in public, but I'll test with other stuff once it's in meego Aug 23 14:44:02 Aard: I think meego-handset-people uses it. Aug 23 15:26:38 BTW, if I set QPainter::scale() to something and the draw an image there, will it automatically magnify? Aug 23 15:26:56 Also, will the Maemo5 version use OpenGLES for that? Aug 23 15:29:02 hi, does anyone know the deadline time (in UTC) to call for session proposals? Aug 23 15:29:30 Did you submit a proposal for the MeeGo Conference? You have until Aug 23 (11:59PM Pacific time): Aug 23 15:30:14 Ok, an alternative question: is there some place online where I can browse Qt source code? (including the Maemo5 bits) Aug 23 15:30:31 gitorious? Aug 23 15:30:37 qt.gitorious.org Aug 23 15:31:00 Stskeeps: thanks :) Aug 23 15:31:08 ok Aug 23 15:33:49 Mghm, git website brought down my firefox Aug 23 15:33:51 Weird Aug 23 15:40:01 Stskeeps: Maybe I am missing something but I cannot find a single Maemo or Meego related bit in that Qt code Aug 23 15:40:22 Stskeeps: X11 is there, Windows and MacOS are there, S60 is there (!) but not Maemo or Meego Aug 23 15:40:32 RST38h: probably hiding, but maemo/meego is variants of x11 Aug 23 15:40:39 Ah ok Aug 23 15:40:40 in fact, meego is x11 one i believe Aug 23 15:41:08 But another finding is that the QPainter::drawImage is not optimized in any way, as it looks Aug 23 15:41:17 it is simply copying data Aug 23 15:41:26 Does not seem to care about scale() call either Aug 23 15:41:38 http://blog.rburchell.com/2010/04/qt-on-maemo-warning.html Aug 23 15:42:21 .. maybe not that post Aug 23 15:42:27 there's one called "each time you scale a pixmap god kills a kitten" Aug 23 15:42:30 or something Aug 23 15:43:08 Stskeeps: Well this does not relate to me Aug 23 15:43:26 is it on meego, pc, or maemo? Aug 23 15:43:26 :P Aug 23 15:43:36 Stskeeps, different issue Aug 23 15:43:38 mmk Aug 23 15:43:44 the optimisation in that case relates to passing through lists etc Aug 23 15:43:48 Stskeeps: But, it does seem to imply that whatever Qt people say about "GL acceleration" is apparently non-existant unless you use GL Aug 23 15:44:36 Stskeeps: The code he is quoting does something completely different. It uses GTK-compatible themes and draws pixmaps rather than qimages Aug 23 15:44:41 RST38h: got a qglwidget? Aug 23 15:45:08 Stskeeps: I would like to avoid using GL directly. It is pain and too slow to be worth it Aug 23 15:45:32 fair enough Aug 23 15:45:43 Stskeeps: If Qt used it implicitely, it would probably be worth it, but between plain GLES and /dev/fb* the frame buffer wins hands down Aug 23 15:46:28 Stskeeps: So I will most likely default to my old scheme (scaling up using opitmized arm assembly, then drawing image using QPainter without scaling) Aug 23 15:46:44 Stskeeps: and for the full screen go with the fb Aug 23 15:46:50 mmk Aug 23 15:46:59 * Stskeeps 's brain has shut off for today, tbh Aug 23 15:46:59 :P Aug 23 16:05:57 Stskeeps, wasn't the 1.0.90 beta supposed to be released this week? Aug 23 16:06:28 th3hate: things skipped a week Aug 23 16:06:59 Stskeeps, but beta will be feature complete even on n900? Aug 23 16:07:39 th3hate: i don't know if we'll be feature complete for 1.1 when it comes to n900 hardware. i hope we will, but i don't know. Aug 23 16:08:17 Stskeeps, you mean the 1.1 october release? Aug 23 16:10:00 th3hate: yeah Aug 23 16:21:37 whoa...did you guys see n9's specs??? snapdraggon 1ghz...4 inch oled....etc Aug 23 16:21:57 :D Aug 23 16:22:04 none this resistive bullcrap too Aug 23 16:22:18 let the battle begin Aug 23 16:22:56 and where exactly you have acquired the specifications? Aug 23 16:22:56 what is it with people and the N9 Aug 23 16:22:57 N9-da-king: yesterday this topic didn't bring much positiveness Aug 23 16:23:22 this thing smokes!! forget the rest Aug 23 16:24:16 most of the "leaks" I've seen regarding those "specifications" have certainly lacked any kind of professionalism regarding realistic assumptions Aug 23 16:24:23 finally a top end fone from nokia that kicks major ass Aug 23 16:24:55 N9-da-king: your mum is a sony erricson now go away Aug 23 16:25:03 N9-da-king: leak is insane as harmattan is for sure a OMAP3 platform Aug 23 16:25:23 why you guys so negative??? Aug 23 16:25:27 RST38h: your blit plan is quite similar to mine :) Aug 23 16:25:38 don't nokia like to use their own modem chipset? Aug 23 16:25:39 oh you're human, i thought you where a bot Aug 23 16:25:41 I'm quite likely to buy N9, but the "leaks" are just absurd... "I'll invent half a dozen buzzwords and use hyped-up terms and features, and call it a leak" Aug 23 16:25:42 n9 is the only chance meego got Aug 23 16:25:58 if nokia dont support it meego is finished...soyonara Aug 23 16:25:59 however I hope that the Qt pixmap scaling would be fast enough on N9/meego Aug 23 16:26:02 N9-da-king: first off, this isn't a nokia product channel, and you're off topic Aug 23 16:26:31 lol....you serious mate? its meego, aint it? Aug 23 16:26:45 http://www.intomobile.com/2010/08/23/rumor-nokia-n9-specifications-4-inch-oled-screen-qualcomm-1-ghz-snapdragon-512-mb-ram/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IntoMobile+%28IntoMobile%29 Aug 23 16:26:50 the GL approach is way too slow if you're planning to blit as textures Aug 23 16:26:55 meego isn't N9 or Nokia, though Aug 23 16:27:07 are there any meego handsets announced officially? Aug 23 16:27:21 Stskeeps: he'll be on-topic if he claims N9 will run meego :P Aug 23 16:27:41 i mean real ones, not development platforms :) Aug 23 16:27:48 N9 WILL be meego, what are you guys smoking ???? Aug 23 16:28:15 until the N9 is officially announced, I don't care Aug 23 16:28:22 N9-da-king: is your name lee by any chance? Aug 23 16:28:32 N9-da-king, I want to know what you are smoking, since you seem to have lost your short term memory Aug 23 16:28:35 meego is a linux distro designed for netbooks and smart phones Aug 23 16:28:45 although I couldn't rule out snapdragon with over 95% likelihood, that is quite unlikely proposition tostart with, considering nokias' relations with TI and the realities of development Aug 23 16:28:48 sure the N9 is /A/ phone but it's not the only thing Aug 23 16:28:49 man... this is the only community that woud Aug 23 16:29:17 man this is the only community that would shit on the only hope they have Aug 23 16:29:28 the N9 is not meegos only hope Aug 23 16:29:30 N9-da-king: this is a software community. Aug 23 16:29:34 nokia make more than one phone Aug 23 16:29:37 we don't dabble in hardware production. Aug 23 16:29:44 and meego is designed for more than one phone Aug 23 16:29:49 would yous rather talk about meego on refrigerators and car audios or the n9 ?? Aug 23 16:30:01 none of the above Aug 23 16:30:01 actually, yes. Aug 23 16:30:20 N9-da-king: or lighters Aug 23 16:30:23 haha Aug 23 16:30:43 * lcuk saw a laser projector inside a zippo case the other day Aug 23 16:30:48 as long as about a year ago I remember hearin"g ofseveral different maemo6-taergeted prototype devices being worked on at nokia... N9 is just one of them Aug 23 16:31:03 i am telling you... n9 smokes and hopefully nokia takes care of meego properly....none this community shit Aug 23 16:31:28 you do know that without the community meego would probably die? Aug 23 16:31:38 interesting attitude. Aug 23 16:31:52 and with that, I'm gonna ignore you Aug 23 16:32:16 without nokia ??? who gives a shit about some korean manufacturer? it HAS to be a nokia mate Aug 23 16:32:42 mmm, casual racism Aug 23 16:33:23 btw how old are you? Aug 23 16:33:32 ok....so you folks are shitting on the n9, did i get it straight? Aug 23 16:33:39 I am 47...why? Aug 23 16:33:53 i was expecting "14". Aug 23 16:34:03 considering this is open source project with open arch approach targeted to many devices being solmenly designed by single company engineers for one specific phone will kill the idea Aug 23 16:34:03 also we can't shit on something that hasn't been released yet Aug 23 16:34:17 N900 was manufactured in korea, btw Aug 23 16:34:32 kirma: he hates N900 remember? Aug 23 16:34:34 meego supports x86. ARM9 and whatever else the community build it for Aug 23 16:34:48 * slonopotamus really wishes irc had kick/ban based on voting :) Aug 23 16:35:09 slonopotamus: we could vote now and the op might kill him if we ask nicely Aug 23 16:35:23 CosmoHill: and is based on linux framework - so it is not hardware limited at ll neither it is software limited... and nokeia n whatever is just one phone Aug 23 16:35:51 lol.... Aug 23 16:36:04 I think the main thing to take away from this is that the N9 is one single device (which hasn't been released yet) Aug 23 16:36:07 CosmoHill: then you have a single one to blame/critisize - op who kicked. Aug 23 16:36:17 for all you know i could be holding the N9 in my hands.... Aug 23 16:36:18 slonopotamus: that is why you have bots Aug 23 16:36:33 N9-da-king: you're not Aug 23 16:36:43 N9-da-king: and i could be holding something else, so what? Aug 23 16:36:47 maybe i am maybe i am not Aug 23 16:37:03 you type to fast to be holding something Aug 23 16:37:34 lol Aug 23 16:38:00 nice aluminum finish....love it ! Aug 23 16:38:03 brand fanatics are an odd bunch Aug 23 16:38:19 what is aluminum? Aug 23 16:38:20 i was once stuck between a windows and an apple fanboy Aug 23 16:38:35 aaaaannnyyyyway... lets get constructive: what can i do to make connman not hate me? Aug 23 16:38:46 his wife? Aug 23 16:38:51 oh wait, not hate you Aug 23 16:39:00 anyone knows when mr m shaver usually gets in? Aug 23 16:39:07 i am not a nokia fanatic... for starters i think n900 sucks balls....n9 is a different beast Aug 23 16:39:17 frals: that his real name? Aug 23 16:39:24 N9-da-king, then go back to engadget and carry on fapping Aug 23 16:39:31 as it happens you are lowering the IQ in this channel Aug 23 16:39:37 CosmoHill: http://gitorious.org/~mshaver Aug 23 16:39:47 frals, email. . . . Aug 23 16:40:04 lcuk: iq in this channel? Aug 23 16:40:04 CosmoHill: considering how picky it is - it hates me... particualry the timing it takes to load mac80211 and ath9k on this N150 Aug 23 16:40:11 well, anyone getting emotional over hardware is pretty many standard deviations off ;) Aug 23 16:40:12 GAN900: waiting for 10hrs.. hence asking if anyone knows his working hours :p Aug 23 16:40:31 so I have a question Aug 23 16:40:38 on meego.com I saw that PowerDVD was coming to meego Aug 23 16:40:42 go on Aug 23 16:40:47 frals, working ours are: Never on when you need him. Aug 23 16:40:48 to play DVDs on meego you need a DVD drive Aug 23 16:40:58 what key feature do netbooks normally lack? Aug 23 16:41:08 well, I have had enough Aug 23 16:41:09 *@*74.198.8.47 added to ignore list. Aug 23 16:41:13 I'm waiting for a good meego phone and hope that one comes from Nokia soon enough... but eh, that's it. Aug 23 16:41:16 CosmoHill: but IVI might have a DVD slot Aug 23 16:41:22 just a guess Aug 23 16:41:26 ooooopi Aug 23 16:41:28 damn forgot about that Aug 23 16:41:30 connected TV too Aug 23 16:41:53 we need that screen from the land rovers Aug 23 16:41:56 powerdvd need to grow a bit to start compeeting with xbmc Aug 23 16:42:07 the one where its' GPS for the drive and DVD for the passanger / kids Aug 23 16:42:11 on one monitor Aug 23 16:42:53 Stskeeps: "I banned you using a N900, goodbye" Aug 23 16:44:13 I'm using it now, too. it's a reasonable irc tool. (ok, over with it) Aug 23 16:45:39 if he comes back we should say that the N9 can't hold a candle to the N10 Aug 23 16:47:55 CosmoHill: What, you mean the one with the dual-core snapdragon 1.5 ghz and full hd hdmi out? ;) Aug 23 16:48:26 don't forget wireless H technogly Aug 23 16:48:54 Totally Aug 23 16:48:58 And the 1200dpi wacom-hybrid screen ;) Aug 23 16:49:21 the N11 is better tho Aug 23 16:49:29 build in 3D mini-projector Aug 23 16:49:37 screw you guys, you are living in the past, we went all the way through and have N900 now! Aug 23 16:49:44 whatever that thing is, the keyboard looks rubbish. psion solved that problem 10 years ago, why can nobody make a mobile computer with a decent keyboard? Aug 23 16:50:03 at the same time the fanboy ravings are funny and depressing... especially when semi-respectable web sites publish their ravings as trusted leaks Aug 23 16:50:33 <`Alt096> hi all Aug 23 16:50:37 hello Aug 23 16:50:50 if you mention the N9 you will be shot ^.^ Aug 23 16:50:53 <`Alt096> someone knows if is possible to virtualize meego? Aug 23 16:51:04 * lcuk will submit this proposal then go to hospital I think Aug 23 16:51:05 <`Alt096> i would run it under windows 7 Aug 23 16:51:37 <`Alt096> clear Aug 23 16:51:42 <`Alt096> sorry Aug 23 16:52:15 sorry, touch surface Aug 23 16:52:20 the screen is, of course, a pixel qi ;) Aug 23 16:52:23 I think it requires to much 3D acceleration that isn't able to be virtualised yet Aug 23 16:52:42 <`Alt096> if i had a touchscrenn? Aug 23 16:53:12 i think virtual box supports multi-touch emulation Aug 23 16:53:33 <`Alt096> yes but i don't know how to set vbox Aug 23 16:53:48 <`Alt096> as starting from the boot cd the installation does not run Aug 23 16:54:08 virtualization should be quite achievable, but virtualizing 3D parts would require setting drivers for the virtualization system Aug 23 16:55:12 CosmoHill: we've done 3d virtualisation for MeeGo Aug 23 16:55:16 <`Alt096> kirma sorry for my miss but what do you mean when u talk about 3d ? Aug 23 16:55:19 ok, well it's not virtualised, it's a pass-through Aug 23 16:55:52 alt096: mostly ability to support compositing efficiently on the X server Aug 23 16:56:26 <`Alt096> so even if i have a core duo i cannot run it? Aug 23 16:56:49 CosmoHill: http://gitorious.org/vm-gl-accel Aug 23 16:57:28 fancy effects of modern window managers depend largely on efficient implementation of opengl with programmable shaders Aug 23 16:57:53 <`Alt096> ok i will wait someone more practice than me Aug 23 16:58:03 <`Alt096> that will write a guide :D Aug 23 16:58:24 <`Alt096> I have downloaded meego for netbook Aug 23 16:58:46 virtualbox has also sort of 3# passthrough, although I haven't read the source... Aug 23 16:58:57 <`Alt096> but i have not enough time to screw it Aug 23 16:59:02 3D Aug 23 16:59:10 <`Alt096> anyway thanks to all Aug 23 16:59:46 <`Alt096> i can buy a n9 Aug 23 16:59:47 <`Alt096> :D Aug 23 17:00:08 eh. Aug 23 17:01:47 <`Alt096> i hope that n9 will have meego Aug 23 17:02:09 says it's symbian Aug 23 17:05:01 Robot101: oo Aug 23 17:06:41 Robot101, is that a spyro I spy commiting to the vm-gl repo :D Aug 23 17:06:56 spyro the dragon? Aug 23 17:07:09 ^.^ Aug 23 17:07:15 hena, who said it's symbian on the n9? Aug 23 17:07:40 yeah, and also spyro the collaboran :) Aug 23 17:08:56 some website, but then the next site said it would be the first meego phone Aug 23 17:10:14 mmm... speculation Aug 23 17:10:21 tastes great in the morning Aug 23 17:14:03 wow, i'm gone for 5 minutes Aug 23 17:14:16 and i see a full on leak as rant fanboi gizm scroll by Aug 23 17:15:49 lcuk: yeah Aug 23 17:53:27 how can I add an installed app to the "App Panel" ? Aug 23 17:53:39 you know the scratch remover for cars? Does it work on laptops? Aug 23 17:53:57 I installed qtcreator but there is no icon Aug 23 18:14:29 Is there a list of required packages to make a MIC2 image? ie: the list of basic packages required to have the image bootable? Aug 23 18:33:59 how many hours until call for papers closes Aug 23 18:36:08 lcuk: technically they close in about 12 hours Aug 23 18:36:25 so about 6am UTC? Aug 23 18:36:34 however, we might extend it to fill some gaps and make it clear that BOFs should be submitted Aug 23 18:36:50 but you should submit now in case we decide not to extend :) Aug 23 18:37:06 I'll post something to the mailing list when we decide for sure Aug 23 18:37:31 dawn: i had someone add me to their presentation, do i hyave to do something else? Aug 23 18:37:44 DawnFoster, I have a talk I am chopping to size and to read correctly, but I have the worst ear ache, hence me asking ;) Aug 23 18:37:46 timeless: I'm doing that right now :) Aug 23 18:37:56 :) Aug 23 18:38:01 I am off to doctors knowing it will be open after midnight Aug 23 18:38:29 timeless: a very important event this week needs my preperations so this got a bit pushed back, together with juggling with the day job Aug 23 18:39:02 now where is the proposals page :) Aug 23 18:40:25 when will the things unconference/bof planning start, o the 13th? Aug 23 18:40:44 http://conference2010.meego.com/program/call-session-proposals Aug 23 18:40:57 BOFs need to be submitted as sessions Aug 23 18:41:04 preface title with BOF: Aug 23 18:41:16 unconference planning happens at the event Aug 23 18:41:27 not sure how lightening talks are being organized Aug 23 18:41:31 DawnFoster: but from the 13th ? Aug 23 18:41:50 I got the impression that there are more activites other than the 15-17th Aug 23 18:42:05 17th is the unconference day Aug 23 18:42:07 we Aug 23 18:42:18 DawnFoster: okay, cool Aug 23 18:42:22 we've talked about doing some weekend activities if people are interested Aug 23 18:42:32 what does BOF stand for? Aug 23 18:42:40 those are still TBD until we find out if people want to come early Aug 23 18:42:40 ali1234: Birds of Feather Aug 23 18:42:46 infobot bof? Aug 23 18:43:07 DawnFoster: e.g. arrive on the or before the 13th ? Aug 23 18:43:13 hmm i still don't know what it means :/ Aug 23 18:43:20 DawnFoster: eer, the 14th :) Aug 23 18:43:33 BASTARD OPERATOR FROM.... or rather, birds of a feather, a disucssion session Aug 23 18:43:38 ali1234: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_of_a_Feather_(computing) Aug 23 18:43:49 sivang: people should arrive no later than the 14th, since the conference starts first thing in the morning on the 13th Aug 23 18:43:51 lcuk: heh Aug 23 18:43:51 oops Aug 23 18:43:53 15th Aug 23 18:44:01 9am on the 15th Aug 23 18:44:08 DawnFoster: heh, I managed to confuse as well :) Aug 23 18:44:16 http://conference2010.meego.com/program/tentative-schedule Aug 23 18:44:21 DawnFoster: great , thanks Aug 23 18:44:58 if enough people are around early - we can organize something fun. I'll probably fly in on the 13th to help with setup, etc. anyway Aug 23 18:48:31 DawnFoster: that would rock. Aug 23 18:59:28 hm. Aug 23 19:16:27 Is it just me or is this link broken? http://apidocs.meego.com/qt4.7/ -> Examples http://apidocs.meego.com/qt4.7/examples.html doesn't exist Aug 23 19:17:35 Zoltan2: nope, it's broken Aug 23 19:17:49 Any ideas how to report it to webmaster? Aug 23 19:17:58 bugs.meego.com Aug 23 19:18:06 Okay Aug 23 19:18:06 there is a section for apidocs Aug 23 19:19:02 Stskeeps: ping Aug 23 19:19:06 plonk Aug 23 19:19:42 Zoltan2: hmm in fact there isn't a section for apidocs.meego.com, maybe it's not done yet Aug 23 19:19:47 How do you configure Meego/Xorg.conf to map alt+tab shortcut to app switching ? Aug 23 19:19:52 vlj: no clue Aug 23 19:20:02 currently it switches between Xorg and VT1 Aug 23 19:22:37 is there an emulator around that can run meego? or can i just boot it up in kvm? Aug 23 19:24:33 tapas: I'm new here but I think there are virtualbox instructions on the website Aug 23 19:25:22 fprimex: ty Aug 23 19:25:49 ali1234: funny, I can't even register in meego bugzilla, it says "Use lower case letters a-z and/or digits 0-9; no spaces, underscores, hyphens or other punctuation." for my nick Zoltan Aug 23 19:26:03 Zoltan2: make an account through meego.com Aug 23 19:26:13 then you have access to everything Aug 23 19:27:40 ali1234: that's exactly what I am doing at http://meego.com/user/register Aug 23 19:28:03 Ah, it doesn't like capital Z Aug 23 19:28:18 what is "Garage" ? Aug 23 19:28:50 Zoltan2: that's odd there's plenty of people with uppercase in their usernames... Aug 23 19:29:08 Well I could go on with "zoltan" Aug 23 19:29:14 ah i think you can change the way it is displayed Aug 23 19:29:56 yeah, you can change it after you log in Aug 23 19:31:00 fprimex: ah it looks like it's for the netbook edition Aug 23 19:31:12 fprimex: i wonder whether it's possible to have an emulator run the handset images Aug 23 19:31:31 tapas: ah, that I don't know Aug 23 19:31:46 there's a handse qemu image Aug 23 19:31:47 t Aug 23 19:31:57 Stskeeps: ok, cool.. Aug 23 19:32:08 vlj: garage.maemo.org - but for meego Aug 23 19:32:37 well what is the difference between garage.maemo.org and, let's say, obs ? Aug 23 19:32:53 garage is a stone age creature and obs is a spaceship. Aug 23 19:32:56 vlj: garage does source code management, OBS builds packages Aug 23 19:33:10 ok Aug 23 19:33:25 is garage.maemo.org "connected" with meego ? Aug 23 19:33:36 no Aug 23 19:33:42 meego will have it's own garage i guess Aug 23 19:33:59 I mean, maemo garage won't merge with meego garage ? Aug 23 19:34:08 i doubt it Aug 23 19:34:49 i guess anything is possible Aug 23 19:36:08 ok Aug 23 19:37:41 Ok first bug on MeeGo even before I tried to do something filed Aug 23 19:37:42 vlj, why should it merge? Aug 23 19:38:48 Stskeeps: hehe re: stoneage and spaceships Aug 23 19:39:10 Zoltan2: link? Aug 23 19:39:33 do we get to have aliens as well ? Aug 23 19:39:34 sivang: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5675 Aug 23 19:40:42 Zoltan2: hrm, this is an apidoc error no? Aug 23 19:41:11 sivang: there is no such category as apidocs.meego.com in bugzilla at the moment so I filed generally on meego.com Aug 23 19:42:03 sivang: if you know a better category you are free to modify the bug Aug 23 19:42:24 Zoltan2: no that's okay, but you saud "bug on MeeGo" which for me implied on the OS Aug 23 19:42:43 Ah you're right here Aug 23 19:43:22 I didn't get to OS yet, just trying to figure how to create applications for it Aug 23 19:55:55 Stskeeps: do you know how I can add an icon to MyApp Zone ? Aug 23 20:01:13 click the pin thing in the top-right Aug 23 20:20:22 DawnFoster, I saw the extension, I will still submit tonight but being able to finish it after docs tomorrow would be easier Aug 23 20:21:18 lcuk: now you have a few more days. Aug 23 20:21:19 DawnFoster: am i blind or do i not see any date anywhere? Aug 23 20:21:22 http://conference2010.meego.com/news/meego-conference-session-proposal-deadline-extended-august-27-1159pm-pacific-time Aug 23 20:21:33 (in the mail) Aug 23 20:21:37 it's in the subject line of the email Aug 23 20:21:41 ah Aug 23 20:21:50 guess i'm blind and it's time to sleep ;) Aug 23 20:21:58 probably should have included it in the body, too :) Aug 23 20:22:18 IRC topics and subject lines, noone reads them ;) Aug 23 20:22:35 depends on the server :) Aug 23 20:22:57 with freenode having 434309092340923409432094 channels having informative topic helps Aug 23 20:24:38 night all Aug 23 20:24:45 DawnFoster: How do you identify middleware sessions? :) Aug 23 20:24:55 because i did not state in mine that that's what it is... :) Aug 23 20:25:22 leinir: the middleware section in the architecture diagram, mostly http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture Aug 23 20:25:48 there were some middleware sessions, but there are so many middleware components and some weren't well represented Aug 23 20:26:29 Ooh right, then i misunderstood the term :) Aug 23 20:28:52 The session i referred to is the Gluon one, about how to use Gluon to build and distribute games on MeeGo :) Aug 23 20:35:48 (just in case anyone was wondering ;) ) Aug 23 20:40:20 leinir, what does gluon compile apps into? Aug 23 20:40:36 or what is it written in (if it parses runtime data) Aug 23 20:41:00 lcuk: It doesn't :) Aug 23 20:41:19 Game logic is written in QtScript :) Aug 23 20:41:43 cool, so does it work with native qt games? Aug 23 20:41:50 and it comes with a lot of boilerplate code already written, so you very rarely need to write heavy computational stuff yourself :) Aug 23 20:41:53 or libmeegotouch specifically? Aug 23 20:45:10 i would like to postpone this, even though i'd like to discuss it... i really must be off to bed (hence my awayness) Aug 23 20:46:06 leinir, no probs dude,sleep well Aug 23 20:46:30 night night leinir Aug 23 20:46:42 cheers - you too when you get that far :) Aug 23 20:47:03 In the meantime - http://gluon.gamingfreedom.org/ and http://gamingfreedom.org/ contain lots of infos ;) Aug 23 20:47:49 DawnFoster: something fun? :) Aug 23 20:48:13 DawnFoster: sorry, I've just reacted to an age-old post by accident Aug 23 20:49:27 hey guys, I'm getting this error that was posted a while ago by someone else: http://pastebin.com/tDcheBuc Aug 23 20:49:36 it's a mic-image-creator error Aug 23 20:49:43 anyone know what causes it/how to fix it? Aug 23 20:49:48 or anything on it really.. Aug 23 20:51:11 hello Aug 23 20:51:17 hi Aug 23 20:51:53 I'm currently trying meego for the first time and i'm quite impressed but some softwares i frequently use in my daily life aren't in meego's repo Aug 23 20:52:13 is there a way to use other rpm repo's or do i have to compile everything by hand? Aug 23 20:52:18 or maybe creating packages? Aug 23 20:52:41 what software is it? someone may have already made their own rpm Aug 23 20:53:11 I haven't made a list yet but the first things I tried are emacs, ntfs, mplayer, ... Aug 23 20:53:27 check Extras Aug 23 20:55:14 anyone having issues with connman? Aug 23 20:55:24 (I forgot to mention I'm on a netbook, but I think emacs made it clear) Aug 23 20:55:39 burton: there's an Extra repo, I think Aug 23 20:55:55 jedix: I'm looking for it on google Aug 23 20:56:05 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0.1/extra/repos/ia32/packages/i586/ Aug 23 20:56:10 there's emacs in there Aug 23 20:56:13 particularly on fast booting netbooks Aug 23 20:56:18 jedix: \o/ Aug 23 20:56:27 * CosmoHill points to vim.rpm Aug 23 20:56:32 >.> Aug 23 20:56:50 thanks I'm gonna look there Aug 23 20:57:01 there's mplayer somewhere I think.. Aug 23 20:57:49 I have to go, but I'm definitly gonna stick a little bit around meego Aug 23 20:58:00 burton: mplayer can probably be omited in favor of xbcm Aug 23 20:58:22 considering it is netbook and you are unlikely to play video in xless console Aug 23 21:05:59 If you have a MeeGo Phone and mini usb to ethernet. you never need any other recovery tooling ever. right? Aug 23 21:09:11 recovery of what? Aug 23 21:09:18 of your computer? or of the phone? Aug 23 21:09:51 WIndows boxes ofc Aug 23 21:10:07 I don't see how a phone would help you recover windows boxes Aug 23 21:10:27 sftp/netboot. with out how to get inet troubles Aug 23 21:10:55 that depends on whether your box has netboot capabilities Aug 23 21:11:07 live CD or USB are more reliable Aug 23 21:12:04 really?? only things that never gave me install problems where netboot and the 3 Debian floppies Aug 23 21:13:10 and then again. a cdrom does not give inet access.. Aug 23 21:15:14 heh, nice idea actually Aug 23 21:16:00 ^^ Aug 23 21:16:16 even if I use a CD, chances are it'll be vastly outdated, so you'd need a ton of updates first Aug 23 21:17:20 You can update you're meego boot image ^^ Aug 23 21:18:27 you use a cdrom to boot? Thats so 2009 outdated before you can burn it. Aug 23 21:19:06 lol Aug 23 21:20:25 Or use a PC as a Meego Desktop terminal. Aug 23 21:22:09 sivang: got your email :) Aug 23 21:23:56 * timeless_mbp wonders how to sign up for the conference Aug 23 21:24:26 * timeless_mbp tries clicking "sign up now" Aug 23 21:26:22 can someone tell me if i'm "signed up"? Aug 23 21:26:27 http://conference2010.meego.com/attendees doesn't seem to list me Aug 23 21:27:37 timeless: intel / nokia employees are being moderated Aug 23 21:28:03 we're trying to make sure that we don't fill up the conference with Intel / Nokia people thus leaving no space for other attendees Aug 23 21:29:14 timeless: I checked & you are in the queue for approval Aug 23 21:29:23 DawnFoster, makes sense Aug 23 21:29:34 so there is a quota then? Aug 23 21:29:50 the point is that we want others to be able to give talks too Aug 23 21:30:03 not a formal quota right now - depends on how many people register & which talks get selected Aug 23 21:30:14 could some of these underutilized intel/nokia employees help me deal with connman please? ;o) Aug 23 21:30:23 oh, attendees? Aug 23 21:30:41 thiago: yep, attendees are being moderated Aug 23 21:30:54 interesting Aug 23 21:31:05 with companies the size of Intel / Nokia, we could easily fill up the venue by ourselves Aug 23 21:31:44 this way, we make sure that the right people are registered and that we aren't way out of balance compared to other attendees Aug 23 21:32:34 we don't think it's going to be an issue Aug 23 21:37:22 Phazorx: what's your connman issues? Aug 23 21:41:28 thiago_home: hey Aug 23 21:41:33 i was supposed to yell at you Aug 23 21:41:47 so… on windows and macosx "cancel" is not supposed to have an underlined letter Aug 23 21:41:56 you're supposed to rely on a cancel stroke (esc, cmd-.) Aug 23 21:42:13 but i'm told that Qt's "cancel" button is underlining the 'c' in cancel automatically Aug 23 21:42:22 can you please ensure that it stops doing that? :) Aug 23 21:42:35 timeless_mbp: the style should take care of that Aug 23 21:43:33 thiago_home: hr Aug 23 21:49:54 so, the project in question is http://bitbucket.org/tortoisehg/thg Aug 23 21:50:12 the cancel button appears here: http://cdn.bitbucket.org/tortoisehg/thg/downloads/Screenshot-commit.png Aug 23 21:50:46 jedix: on bootup it never connects to favorite (and only) wifi network Aug 23 21:51:00 if i press cancel folowed by connect = it connects Aug 23 21:51:40 if i want for ~90 seconds it borks with an error, and i hit connect (after retyping samekey) - it connects too Aug 23 21:59:13 thiago_home: does QStyle happen automatically or do you have to create it manually? Aug 23 21:59:22 it's automatic Aug 23 21:59:42 defaults to the Mac style on Mac and the native Windows on Windows Aug 23 21:59:47 (XP, Vista or 7) Aug 23 22:00:24 what about unix? :) Aug 23 22:00:32 that's a lot more complex Aug 23 22:00:50 it may default to Plastique, GtkStyle, Clearlooks, CDE or whatever KDE sets as default Aug 23 22:01:12 or the MeeGo Touch Framework style on MeeGo Aug 23 22:02:14 heh Aug 23 22:02:19 can you guess from the picture? :) Aug 23 22:02:59 that looks like the Gtk or Clearlooks style Aug 23 22:03:14 should it be underlining the C ? :) Aug 23 22:03:43 I don't know, I never run that style Aug 23 22:04:35 * timeless_mbp kicks Qt Aug 23 22:04:43 so i want to download Qt on OS X so i can run an app Aug 23 22:04:48 and i get sent to http://qt.nokia.com/downloads Aug 23 22:04:55 from which i can't figure out how to download something Aug 23 22:05:00 tl;d-want-to-r Aug 23 22:06:19 this link: http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/qt-for-open-source-cpp-development-on-mac-os-x Aug 23 22:06:26 or this: http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/sdk-mac-os-cpp Aug 23 22:15:46 gah, qt.nokia.com/downloads/ looks awful w/o js Aug 23 22:16:41 Atleast you don't need flash to see content, I hope? Aug 23 22:16:48 um Aug 23 22:17:06 there's at least one youtube video (flash) Aug 23 22:18:00 Some nokia.com pages have habbit of putting a static image with hyperlink inside flash, and have the entire page built with that Aug 23 22:18:38 yep Aug 23 22:19:10 > Welcome to the Qt installer! This will guide you through the steps to getting Qt 4.6 Opensource Edition installed on your machine! Aug 23 22:19:13 the video is just the lawyer explaining some licensing issues Aug 23 22:19:17 choose LGPL :-) Aug 23 22:19:54 thiago_home: the spelling of 'opensource' there is odd Aug 23 22:20:15 err Aug 23 22:20:17 wtf Aug 23 22:20:27 did your guys not try using their .mpkg? Aug 23 22:20:47 What is a .mpkg? Aug 23 22:20:48 their who? Aug 23 22:20:57 .mpkg = multi .pkg Aug 23 22:21:07 it's the osx installer format Aug 23 22:21:10 the .dmg contains an .mpkg Aug 23 22:23:08 thiago_home: http://konigsberg.mozilla.org/qt463dpkg-installer-whitespace.png Aug 23 22:24:22 right, the .dmg also contains an installer program Aug 23 22:24:29 no Aug 23 22:24:33 that's the .mpkg Aug 23 22:24:39 you mean the formatting? Aug 23 22:24:43 yes Aug 23 22:24:55 I'm pretty sure it was fine last I tried Aug 23 22:25:05 i *just* downloaded it Aug 23 22:25:18 I didn't test 4.6.3 Aug 23 22:25:22 http://get.qt.nokia.com/qt/source/qt-mac-cocoa-opensource-4.6.3.dmg Aug 23 22:25:24 I haven't been doing packages for a while Aug 23 22:25:33 they were fine in my time :-) Aug 23 22:25:38 ... Aug 23 22:25:50 should i try to file a bug? Aug 23 22:26:07 btw, why did it offer me the choice of GPL or LGPL? Aug 23 22:26:21 couldn't hurt, choose component Installer Aug 23 22:26:23 did the lawyer mention GPL? because the download page didn't Aug 23 22:26:43 Qt is actually tri-licensed with GPLv3 too Aug 23 22:26:49 yeah, i know Aug 23 22:26:50 the LGPL license isn't "or any later version" Aug 23 22:27:06 so the GPLv3 is offered in addition, but most people don't care Aug 23 22:27:16 * timeless_mbp doesn't see a component installer Aug 23 22:27:29 it defaults to GPLv3 Aug 23 22:27:31 which seems stupid Aug 23 22:27:41 thiago_home, LGPL 2+ is "or any later version" though Aug 23 22:27:47 try Packaging Aug 23 22:27:57 tripzero: that's not what Qt is though Aug 23 22:28:01 oh, okay Aug 23 22:28:01 tripzero: it isn't + Aug 23 22:28:02 yeah Aug 23 22:28:03 Qt is commercial, LGPLv2.1, GPLv3 Aug 23 22:28:08 the lawyers aren't that stupid Aug 23 22:28:13 in fact, the Qt lawyers seem pretty good Aug 23 22:28:15 does the "+" automatically mean v3? Aug 23 22:28:33 GPLv2+ is "2 or later" Aug 23 22:28:38 3 is later than 2, so it applies Aug 23 22:28:51 packages just has a bunch of packages Aug 23 22:28:52 so any downstream can chose 2 or 3? Aug 23 22:29:00 s/downstream/consumer/ Aug 23 22:29:00 tripzero meant: so any consumer can chose 2 or 3? Aug 23 22:29:22 timeless_mbp: project Qt, type Bug, component Packaging Aug 23 22:29:26 * tripzero never clearly understood what that menas Aug 23 22:29:40 thiago_home: starting url? Aug 23 22:29:43 tripzero: copyright holders decide which license they license their code under Aug 23 22:29:49 timeless_mbp: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/secure/CreateIssue!default.jspa Aug 23 22:30:10 thiago_home: how do i know if i have an account? :) Aug 23 22:30:18 tripzero: licensees choose one of the licenses that the copyright holders provided Aug 23 22:30:27 timeless_mbp: you'd know if you did :-) Aug 23 22:30:38 timeless_mbp: just drop me an email and I'll ask the team to check tomorrow Aug 23 22:30:40 thiago_home: i filed bugs against one of the bug trackers Aug 23 22:31:06 one of? Aug 23 22:31:25 you guys changed at some point, i think… i've found the bug i filed in the past Aug 23 22:31:30 it's a royal pain to find, but.. Aug 23 22:31:43 well, the older system didn't have accounts Aug 23 22:31:53 so you must have account on the new one Aug 23 22:32:34 ah Aug 23 22:33:56 the change is too late for RC1 though Aug 23 22:34:04 packages are frozen Aug 23 22:57:09 uuuuuuuuuuuggghhhhh. MODEST SUUUUUCKS!!!!! .... now it literally takes 5 minutes for me to open up my nokia messaging account. :( Aug 23 23:10:00 TSCHAKeee: i think you're in the wrong channel Aug 23 23:10:15 unless someone has ported modest and nokia messaging to meego.. Aug 23 23:11:03 yeah, you're right... Aug 24 01:39:45 anyone running meego on a mini 210? Aug 24 02:03:25 cyas **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 24 02:59:57 2010