**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 24 02:59:57 2010 Aug 24 03:51:32 hi , which is meego's appstore? Aug 24 03:52:20 interl's Appup or Nokia's Ovi Aug 24 04:11:46 probably both at some point in the future Aug 24 04:33:43 zecho, depends on who shipped your device, unfortunately. Aug 24 06:40:04 Aard: Qt Mobility update submitted Aug 24 06:42:17 fabo: which version is that now? Aug 24 06:44:26 michaelg|nok: still 1.0.2 except QtContact API updated to 1.1.0tp1 Aug 24 06:44:44 michaelg|nok: I have added the QContactAction API Aug 24 06:51:52 I'm getting this error 'No protocol specified' when I run qemugl_cmd.sh.. Aug 24 06:52:17 someone please help.. Aug 24 06:59:34 I'm getting this error 'Could not initialize SDL - exiting' any solutions? Aug 24 10:00:48 lbt: ping Aug 24 10:14:44 hi Aug 24 10:15:37 ji Aug 24 10:45:58 jeremiah: pong... but.... I'm busy today... will be around tomorrow. Aug 24 11:04:53 do you know if archos Android tablet can work with Meego ? Aug 24 11:05:06 which one of them? Aug 24 11:05:18 well, let's say archos 5 Aug 24 11:05:30 that's omap3 or how was it? Aug 24 11:05:38 no idea ^^ Aug 24 11:05:50 some arm processor are not supported ? Aug 24 11:05:56 if it's omap3, get 2.6.35 on it, powervr/sgx working, then it's probably a breeze Aug 24 11:06:24 (powervr/sgx provides drivers ??) Aug 24 11:06:42 vlj: do you have the flasher tool for that tablet? Aug 24 11:06:50 no Aug 24 11:06:53 i don't have the tablet Aug 24 11:06:56 do you have access to the bootloader? Aug 24 11:06:59 i'm just considering buying one Aug 24 11:07:02 no idea Aug 24 11:07:10 this is not a requirement ? Aug 24 11:07:13 yes it is Aug 24 11:07:19 how are you going to make it boot MeeGo? Aug 24 11:07:44 I mean Aug 24 11:07:53 thiago: actually an angstrom exists for it, provided by archos Aug 24 11:08:09 having a bootloader is not a requirement in order to run android ? Aug 24 11:08:16 vlj: it is Aug 24 11:08:27 do you know what bootloader that thing uses? Do you know how to make it boot MeeGo? Aug 24 11:08:36 no sorry :/ Aug 24 11:08:55 if it's an OMAP3, it probably can run MeeGo Aug 24 11:09:01 but someone must find a way of making it do that Aug 24 11:09:08 it's not evident with ARM platforms Aug 24 11:10:26 I would like to know if the future toshiba ac100 can do dual boot too Aug 24 11:11:38 but no clue about that Aug 24 11:23:44 are the binary images for the n900 out by now? Aug 24 11:24:10 yes, https://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php Aug 24 11:26:03 Not Found Aug 24 11:26:14 er, without https, http Aug 24 11:29:44 Stskeeps: Any chance of seeing a image with modem-drivers on? Aug 24 11:30:35 hopefully in the next weeks Aug 24 11:31:54 Stskeeps: Nice Aug 24 11:36:03 hi all Aug 24 11:36:31 hi Aug 24 11:39:06 I'm just having a look at Meego on my netbook, considering replacing Ubuntu Netbook Edition with it. It looks great! My only concern at this point is - I need to use a nonfree module in order to get my wifi to work. It's a Broadcom chipset, using the "wl" module from lib80211. It doesn't work OOTB, I'd need to install it. Ubuntu makes that pretty easy to do, you just tick a box and it happens. How would I go about install Aug 24 11:39:06 ing that in MeeGo? Aug 24 11:40:25 WillWork4Foo: do you have an atom based netbook ? Aug 24 11:41:06 vlj: yes, it's got an Atom N370 processor Aug 24 11:41:23 correction Aug 24 11:41:24 N450 Aug 24 11:41:25 as far as I know, Meego try to be as open source as possible Aug 24 11:41:26 !!! Aug 24 11:41:41 so you will need to build the kernel module for that chipset Aug 24 11:42:04 + probably Aug 24 11:42:06 so I'd need to manually go and hack it together and plug it in myself? Aug 24 11:42:25 there is no restricted hardware manager like in ubuntu sorry Aug 24 11:42:30 surely not - meego doesn't have the ability to just click and accept some terms and conditions Aug 24 11:42:35 that's a bit of a big gaping hole. Aug 24 11:43:03 since quite a lot of the netbook wifi chipsets are not natively supported by open-source modules at this time, I'd say that was an enormous gaping hole. Aug 24 11:43:05 maybe the module is not that hard to install Aug 24 11:43:18 hmm. Aug 24 11:44:25 you can try meego liveusb to see if wifi works out of the box but I think it won't Aug 24 11:45:36 Meego is still new so it lacks some features, like a "non free" repo Aug 24 11:45:57 however there are progress, meego can run on nvidia cards now Aug 24 11:46:01 I've already tried meego live on the usb. that's why I'm liking it Aug 24 11:46:12 and your wifi did not work ? Aug 24 11:46:13 I prefer it to Ubuntu Netbook, I think the interface is better Aug 24 11:46:17 no, the wifi didn't work. Aug 24 11:46:32 And before I make the switch, I wanted to make sure I wasn't shooting myself in the foot. Aug 24 11:47:30 Can I install apt-get in meego? Aug 24 11:47:38 no Aug 24 11:47:40 no, we use zypper Aug 24 11:47:41 I know it uses RPM instead Aug 24 11:47:43 ah ok Aug 24 11:48:02 Stskeeps: does it work ? Aug 24 11:48:08 I always used yum Aug 24 11:48:16 so in that case can it use all the repositories that Redhat / Fedora / whatever can use? Aug 24 11:48:19 I mean I use yum on Meego Aug 24 11:48:42 but it would be great if zypper was usable on Meego as I use it with opensuse Aug 24 11:48:55 WillWork4Foo: theoricaly yes Aug 24 11:49:04 ok... Aug 24 11:49:11 bah Aug 24 11:49:12 that would be fairly cool Aug 24 11:49:34 but you are likely to meet dependencies conflict, package trying to overwrite system part, ... Aug 24 11:49:43 fair enough. Aug 24 11:50:22 you can submit a feature request in bugzilla Aug 24 11:50:34 and ask on meego forum for help Aug 24 11:50:47 describing the module ubuntu does use Aug 24 11:51:13 Stskeeps: i thought someone ran into trouble w/ zypper Aug 24 11:51:15 * timeless_mbp walks away Aug 24 11:52:20 italiani ci sono? Aug 24 11:52:59 should that .ks file work from there? I get a 404 Aug 24 11:54:40 which .ks ? Aug 24 11:54:50 arm-n900.closed.ks Aug 24 11:54:55 from that codedrop site Aug 24 11:56:05 lbt: Okay, I'll try and catch you tomorrow Aug 24 11:56:52 no no Aug 24 11:57:00 get the weekly release ones Aug 24 11:57:51 ok Aug 24 11:58:07 how about "AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'is_meego_bootstrap'" Aug 24 11:58:11 with the mic-image-creator Aug 24 11:58:27 the older(?) moblin-image-creator works Aug 24 11:58:43 aha.... http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=147&highlight=restricted Aug 24 11:59:33 this looks promising. Aug 24 11:59:34 brb Aug 24 12:01:23 ali1234: you told me Ubuntu used dkms...does meego use dkms as well ? Aug 24 12:05:18 vlj: i don't think so but you can roll your own Aug 24 12:05:37 it is hard to build dkms ? :/ Aug 24 12:07:05 it's hard to duplicate all dkms functionality, but you only need to build one module Aug 24 12:15:38 * mdp wonders if the compliance people are on holiday/traveling Aug 24 12:16:36 which question were your compliance one? Aug 24 12:17:24 the question regarding the intent of the term "re-packaging" Aug 24 12:17:29 ah Aug 24 12:18:12 I think I caught that mskarpness was just a stand-in for that meeting...not sure who the real owners of the compliant plan are Aug 24 12:18:21 s/compliant/compliance/ Aug 24 12:18:22 mdp meant: I think I caught that mskarpness was just a stand-in for that meeting...not sure who the real owners of the compliance plan are Aug 24 12:18:35 mdp: nah, he's in charge of compliance Aug 24 12:18:42 ok Aug 24 12:18:49 even on /about/governance and all Aug 24 12:19:02 :) Aug 24 12:25:11 hrm, not finding email for him Aug 24 13:23:39 thiago: ping Aug 24 13:24:05 timeless_mbp: pong Aug 24 13:24:48 you were going to hunt for an account? Aug 24 13:25:08 timeless_mbp: no, I was going to tell the guys about the issue you found Aug 24 13:25:12 I have already :-) Aug 24 13:25:18 oh, that's better Aug 24 13:27:29 run and tell that! Aug 24 13:30:29 thiago: Got a question that I hope you may be able to answer Aug 24 13:31:00 thiago: Does QPainter::scale() affect further calls to QPainter::drawImage()? Aug 24 13:34:38 RST38h: I don't know Aug 24 13:34:45 you need to ask that in #qt Aug 24 13:42:51 thiago: #qt does not know Aug 24 13:43:00 oh well Aug 24 13:43:18 #qt-labs does, but that's a user question... Aug 24 13:43:47 ok, let me try qt-labs Aug 24 13:47:32 morn anaZ Aug 24 13:48:15 help please, I get "error: cannot open Packages database in /var/tmp/imgcreate-XimY_u/install_root/var/lib/rpm" Aug 24 13:48:35 and then "yum.Errors.YumBaseError: Error: rpmdb open failed" Aug 24 13:51:24 thiago: Not much luck there either. Aug 24 13:51:31 RST38h: you did get an answer Aug 24 13:51:43 15:43 <+gunnar> RST38h: it does Aug 24 13:51:44 thiago: Yes, half of it Aug 24 13:51:58 what it uses depends on the painting backend Aug 24 13:52:11 if you're using the raster engine, it uses SIMD-optimised methods Aug 24 13:52:21 thiago: Ok, let me clarify: N900. Maemo5. Qt 4.7. Aug 24 13:52:23 if you're using the native engine, it will use XRender if possible (and not slow) Aug 24 13:52:32 if you're using the opengles engine, it will use OpenGL ES Aug 24 13:52:50 that version defaults to the native engine Aug 24 13:53:00 try running your app with the three engines and measure results Aug 24 13:53:07 appname -graphicssystem native|raster|opengles Aug 24 13:53:19 ah, interresting =) Aug 24 13:53:37 Does Maemo5 Qt implement the opengles engine at all? Aug 24 13:53:53 yes Aug 24 13:54:17 though you may find that the raster engine produces better results Aug 24 13:54:21 it just consumes more CPU Aug 24 13:54:35 the SGX and the GL driver aren't very good on the N900 Aug 24 13:54:48 thiago: raster will be slower than my own code Aug 24 13:54:59 your code is GL? Aug 24 13:55:03 opengles has a remote chance to be faster Aug 24 13:55:34 no, arm assembly hand-optimized for a fixed set of scale ratios Aug 24 13:55:43 ah, I see Aug 24 13:56:04 then I actually doubt that it'll be any faster Aug 24 13:56:21 good assembly code, especially if you used Neon, will probably be faster Aug 24 13:56:48 thiago: not even using neon Aug 24 13:57:13 thiago: carefully looked at neon instruction set, nothing that can be used directly there Aug 24 13:57:30 http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2010/08/24/improving-the-rendering-performance-with-more-simd/ Aug 24 13:58:14 thiago: yea, I am doing all this stuff with generic arm instructions Aug 24 13:58:28 but if you can do SIMD, wouldn't it be somewhat faster? Aug 24 13:58:46 no Aug 24 13:58:56 Consider this Aug 24 14:00:43 Take 5:6:5 color (used in Maemo), that is 16 bits. Spread then to Aug 24 14:00:56 30 bits (10 per component) Aug 24 14:01:19 You can use one bit per component to detect overflow, and 4 for fractional part Aug 24 14:01:47 You can now do the standard stuff (ADD, SUB, shifts) on these, in SIMD fashion Aug 24 14:02:24 Doing the same with Neon is also possible but it will not be faster: Neon sits at the end of something like 11-stage pipeline and uses specific data formats Aug 24 14:03:01 which you will have to convert to/from using... right, generic ARM instructions :) Aug 24 14:23:09 nick koupsaa Aug 24 14:23:15 oups sorry hello Aug 24 14:25:19 hi Aug 24 14:25:34 ah \/nick koupsaa don't work ? Aug 24 14:26:32 already in use Aug 24 14:27:00 you'd probably have to wait for it to time out Aug 24 14:27:12 or register and rely on ghost killings Aug 24 14:27:34 I read that as global :/ Aug 24 14:27:53 well I'm off to fix a PC, bye bye Aug 24 14:29:26 the problem today is: gpk-application gpk-xxx disappeared in panel-application ??? :) lol but desktop file are in /usr/share/applications and progs gpk-xxx works from term Aug 24 14:30:27 curious isn-t it? Aug 24 14:32:17 second: https://build.meego.com/ chromium tell me not a valid certificat Aug 24 14:32:57 should I accept certificate? Aug 24 14:33:10 no Aug 24 14:33:17 niala: Decide if you trust the Intel CA. Aug 24 14:34:06 mmm intel can't have a valid certificat ? :p Aug 24 14:35:04 was it an intel certificate? Aug 24 14:35:05 Your browser doesn't know every item in the CA chain. Aug 24 14:35:12 should be Linux Foundation Aug 24 14:35:57 I've had issues with chrome / chromium not recognizing valid certs (even from Google) :) Aug 24 14:36:12 DawnFoster: Intel External Basic Issuing CA 3A Aug 24 14:36:20 subject=/C=US/ST=Oregon/L=Hillsboro/O=MeeGo Project/OU=Build Service/CN=api.meego.com/emailAddress=build@meego.com Aug 24 14:36:23 issuer=/C=US/O=Intel Corporation/CN=Intel External Basic Issuing CA 3A Aug 24 14:36:38 ok, thanks - I'll file a bug to get it changed Aug 24 14:36:39 so i guess it qualifies for LF :) Aug 24 14:36:58 DawnFoster: i think it's just signed by intel, unless LF has their own CA Aug 24 14:37:00 issuer shouldn't be Intel, it should be LF Aug 24 14:37:13 cool my first bug! :) Aug 24 14:37:16 DawnFoster: No, the issuer should be a known CA. Aug 24 14:37:25 * thiago agrees Aug 24 14:37:26 DawnFoster: And LF isn't. Aug 24 14:37:35 without a valid CA, all browsers will give a warning Aug 24 14:37:42 hmmm Aug 24 14:37:48 DawnFoster: It should be verisign, thawte or something like that. Aug 24 14:38:19 Notice that https://meego.com, does use a proper CA. Aug 24 14:38:24 well, it probably shouldn't be Intel - I'll let the sys admins figure out the right one Aug 24 14:39:03 Hehe, godaddy.com ;) Aug 24 14:39:13 yeah, that's what I'll suggest :) Aug 24 14:42:53 sorry for stupid question but, how to have a valid login for build.meego and what is it? third party software? if i do my qt app where tu submit? build.meego ? Aug 24 14:43:10 s/tu/to Aug 24 14:47:46 filed a bug - feel free to add more details in comments: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5722 Aug 24 14:47:59 niala: I think you probably should be using the community OBS. Aug 24 14:48:13 build.meego.com is only for building the main distribution Aug 24 14:48:25 Stskeeps: Hi, I've seen the patches you sent to meego-dev about the SGX driver. Did IT release it as open source? Aug 24 14:48:28 DawnFoster: the flipside of the cert discussion is that intel can probably sign for free ;) Aug 24 14:48:54 mardy: hm? SGX kernel driver has always been OSS Aug 24 14:49:03 niala: community OBS status: http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder Aug 24 14:49:06 it's the libraries that aren't Aug 24 14:49:08 Stskeeps: Yes and these are more complex certs. Aug 24 14:49:08 lbt might have more details Aug 24 14:49:24 Stskeeps: As they have more DNS names included. Aug 24 14:49:41 well, I've filed the bug & they may tell me that it's not a bug :) Aug 24 14:50:34 DawnFoster, that cycle accident sounds quite nasty :( Aug 24 14:50:35 DawnFoster: thanks Aug 24 14:51:24 lcuk: no kidding! I've been afraid to look up the details - a bicyclist doesn't have much chance against a garbage truck Aug 24 14:51:32 Stskeeps: oh, didn't know. :-) Cool! Aug 24 14:51:37 what cycle accident? Aug 24 14:51:37 not really Aug 24 14:51:46 I posted it on Twitter. Aug 24 14:51:49 Stskeeps, dawn twittered Aug 24 14:51:51 ah Aug 24 14:52:03 A cyclist was hit by a garbage truck a few blocks from my house Aug 24 14:52:24 Eek! Aug 24 14:52:25 we had news helicopters circling the neighborhood all morning Aug 24 14:52:29 Let's hope he'll make it. Aug 24 15:07:41 stskeeps: you need some tough skin to submit patches in this group :) Aug 24 15:08:09 mmm in meego user can add/remove every programs with gpk-application. question is about security. everybody who take my notebook meego can do everything? Aug 24 15:08:44 and do mistake error and conflict Aug 24 15:08:44 niala: they can use a screwdriver Aug 24 15:08:47 and remove the hard disk Aug 24 15:08:54 and then stick it into another computer Aug 24 15:08:57 and do whatever Aug 24 15:09:05 possession is 9/10ths Aug 24 15:09:21 similarly, if i have a gun to your head, i can probably get you to give me the pin to your bank Aug 24 15:09:33 i don't have any guns, but that's a minor obstacle Aug 24 15:09:34 ladies and gentlemen: i am holding an (very early) prototype of the famous N9...i have 15 minutes to answer your questions...the prototype is not mine so hurry. GO! Aug 24 15:10:22 timeless, true :) Aug 24 15:10:32 DawnFoster: i'm just the guy who ends up with the bomb in his lap in this particular case :) Aug 24 15:10:43 so not taking it personally Aug 24 15:10:58 Stskeeps: at least Greg-kh is funny when he mocks you openly :) Aug 24 15:11:17 Stskeeps: http://www.dyberryfireworks.com/ChinaCherryBombCrackers.jpg Aug 24 15:11:49 stskeeps: those of us who stick around long enough to do anything interesting have probably learned not to take it personally Aug 24 15:11:50 no one interested ? Aug 24 15:13:28 romanovsky: No. Aug 24 15:13:53 We all have one already, you are just late :) Aug 24 15:14:10 your loss mates Aug 24 15:14:46 DawnFoster, perhaps when internals do reviews of submitted patches and give feedback, when the reviewer is acting in an official manner, they could link to a "don't take this personally" style wiki page on the mail Aug 24 15:15:17 the thing is incerdibly well made....feels solid...maybe because its a proto...the aluminum helps Aug 24 15:15:19 "we aim to get the best quality patches here and please submit more ..." Aug 24 15:15:46 lcuk: what do you mean by "internals" Aug 24 15:16:04 anyone with commit rights who will actually be taking the submited patch further Aug 24 15:16:08 the person reviewing Aug 24 15:16:15 camera doesnt work yet....keyboard feels solid... Aug 24 15:16:47 romanovsky: so, please read the irc logs Aug 24 15:16:56 the slide is tight as hell.... no final decision has been made if the slide will tilt Aug 24 15:17:03 it is not considered acceptable to talk about imaginary hardware which is not available from an official outlet Aug 24 15:17:48 lcuk: this is one of those open source culture things that is always difficult for people who haven't worked in open source before Aug 24 15:17:56 it's more of an implied thing Aug 24 15:18:09 ok....one last chance folks Aug 24 15:18:11 sure it is, I have seen a couple of examples of similar before Aug 24 15:18:13 we'll never get people to include it because they consider it a given Aug 24 15:18:18 its like getting marked off teachers! Aug 24 15:18:50 s/its/it's/ Aug 24 15:18:59 s/off/off by/ Aug 24 15:19:00 timeless_mbp meant: it is not considered acceptable to talk about imaginary hardware which is not available from an off byicial outlet Aug 24 15:19:00 nah, it's more like being helped to make something awesome by someone who has done it before Aug 24 15:19:03 :D thanks timeless_mbp, shall remeber Aug 24 15:19:13 remember even Aug 24 15:19:38 however, it can be really difficult for new community members Aug 24 15:19:39 DawnFoster, reasonable enough indeed! Aug 24 15:19:58 DawnFoster: the create attachment page could provide a link to review hints Aug 24 15:20:10 this is one of the biggest struggles we see when we talk about getting more people involved in open source Aug 24 15:20:12 currently it has that annoying disclaimer blob Aug 24 15:20:15 which is just pain Aug 24 15:20:25 giving some candy … helpful advice … would balance it out Aug 24 15:20:34 ++ Aug 24 15:20:39 timeless: sorry - which create attachment page? Aug 24 15:20:42 bugzilla? Aug 24 15:20:47 yeah Aug 24 15:20:52 I like the idea of candy :) Aug 24 15:21:10 i'm not sure if the mailing lists have description pages Aug 24 15:21:13 the symbian equivalents do Aug 24 15:21:25 you could stick similar content there if they exist Aug 24 15:21:33 (and you could create such pages if they don't...) Aug 24 15:21:46 bonus points for sticking them into a wiki instead of into mailman or whatever Aug 24 15:21:48 s/you/we/ Aug 24 15:21:55 timeless: dang, now I have another task on my to do list :) Aug 24 15:22:07 i'm using "you" because i don't consider myself fully part of the community Aug 24 15:22:19 i should be, but the "community" hasn't welcomed me enough Aug 24 15:22:22 sure you are Aug 24 15:22:26 until then, i have to use "you" instead of "we" Aug 24 15:22:43 and "we" is problematic, because I don't want to be seen as using we Aug 24 15:22:47 you want to take a shot at writing the content for that page? Aug 24 15:22:54 grr Aug 24 15:23:03 just offering Aug 24 15:23:05 i think lcuk probably has a better idea what should go in it ;-) Aug 24 15:23:05 :) Aug 24 15:23:11 i'll gladly do a review or rewrite Aug 24 15:23:16 but i hate writing from scratch Aug 24 15:23:20 i prefer editing Aug 24 15:23:35 wow....a lot of arguing here i see.... very productive :-) Aug 24 15:23:46 anyone want to take a first shot at writing a page that we can link to from bugzilla, mailing lists, etc? Aug 24 15:24:50 once my painkillers kick in, I will try to writeup some notes later and see if can get the ball rolling for it. Aug 24 15:25:17 romanovsky: It is, yes :) i'm quite happy to see this channel so active, personally :) (but then, i'm just me ;) ) Aug 24 15:25:34 romanovsky: "arguing" is not the right word Aug 24 15:25:38 lcuk: cool, thanks Aug 24 15:25:50 did you mean "discussion" ? Aug 24 15:26:07 we can also link to the new contribution guidelines that I finally got online yesterday: http://meego.com/about/contribution-guidelines Aug 24 15:26:15 DawnFoster++ Aug 24 15:26:29 yawn Aug 24 15:26:41 ++ indeed Aug 24 15:27:46 DawnFoster, is it possible to get email info for people listed on Governance? Aug 24 15:28:22 there should be a link to their profile from governance & you should be able to send them a message through meego.com Aug 24 15:28:46 timeless_mbp, did you see the facial recognition stuff on N900 posted around recently? the guy who does it is a doctorate at Manchester university, I sent him a mail talking about his stuff and potential ways to expand on his work and for crossover uses :) Aug 24 15:29:03 http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/staff/philip.tresadern/proj_facerec.htm if not Aug 24 15:29:18 lcuk: i saw the /. bit about it Aug 24 15:29:56 yeah, biggest individual issue atm with using facial recognition is the camera is very dark and you need ideal lighting Aug 24 15:30:13 i hope that on other devices the face camera works better :) Aug 24 15:30:21 the n810 camera was great for it Aug 24 15:30:30 even with all its snow Aug 24 15:31:26 lcuk: i think the pattern here is to only develop the non face camera Aug 24 15:31:30 and deal w/ the face camera later Aug 24 15:31:46 because customers initially check the quality of the device as if it were a real digital camera Aug 24 15:31:59 at least, that seems to describe the n900 Aug 24 15:32:13 sure, but the face camera does have its uses for sure Aug 24 15:32:15 and if you're a management bean counter, wouldn't you do precisely that for precisely that reason? Aug 24 15:32:29 oh sure, as an engineer who isn't short sighted, I agree Aug 24 15:32:29 yup Aug 24 15:32:45 i'm expressing a belief about certain other classes of people Aug 24 15:33:03 I'm just installed the latest meego (ivi) and want to compile a kernel module for it, yum info kernel-headers shows they are already installed, but they aren't. also, the kernel-headers on the repo are outdated, does anyone know how i can get around this? Aug 24 15:33:30 hurrok: the kernel-headers are supposedly "compatible" Aug 24 15:33:57 you can read a bug about them if you're curious Aug 24 15:34:02 timeless_mbp: that can't be true Aug 24 15:34:13 compatible and read a bug about them, this sounds promising :p Aug 24 15:34:25 timeless_mbp: if they were, closed drivers wouldn't break on each kernel update Aug 24 15:34:31 DawnFoster, ok, I can get to the profile, but just see the irc nick and a link for the blog Aug 24 15:34:33 slonopotamus / hurrok: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3702 Aug 24 15:34:39 cheers Aug 24 15:35:27 slonopotamus: maybe there's a distinction between userspace and kernelspace api? Aug 24 15:35:46 hurrok: anyway, for your purposes, you probably need to get the source for the kernel instead of the kernel headers package Aug 24 15:35:58 kernel headers according to the bug is for userspace, not kernelspace Aug 24 15:36:10 but…. feel free to read the bug, it's actually relatively useful Aug 24 15:36:21 i will do, thanks Aug 24 15:36:23 (maemo bugs tend to have much more noise and much less content) Aug 24 15:36:27 s/content/signal/ Aug 24 15:36:27 timeless_mbp meant: (maemo bugs tend to have much more noise and much less signal) Aug 24 15:36:41 hah Aug 24 15:38:27 Poor guy - shame that n9-what's-his-face guy wasn't in here, i'm sure he'd have had plenty of questions ;) Aug 24 15:39:04 mdp - who are we talking about? Aug 24 15:39:13 mark skarpness Aug 24 15:39:37 trying to get his attention about a compliance program question Aug 24 15:39:47 mdp: did you have a specific question about compliance? Aug 24 15:39:59 yes, posted on -community as requested Aug 24 15:40:00 have you asked it in meego-community? Aug 24 15:40:04 ok, cool Aug 24 15:41:27 I just sent him a note asking him to respond Aug 24 15:41:44 mdp: we probably just don't have a clear answer for that yet Aug 24 15:42:02 the compliance docs are still a work in process Aug 24 15:42:59 first draft should be ready for people to review / comment at the end of this month Aug 24 15:43:04 ok, thx Aug 24 15:43:22 and should have everything final by 1.1 release in oct/nov timeframe Aug 24 15:44:50 DawnFoster: Aug 24 15:44:52 > For kernel patches, configuration changes and drivers we will have more precise guidelines available shortly. Aug 24 15:44:57 i'm not a fan of shortly Aug 24 15:45:11 could you specify a quarter (2010Q3) or a month? Aug 24 15:45:18 you can use "we hope to" Aug 24 15:45:20 it smells of "Soon(TM)" ;) Aug 24 15:45:24 timeless: well I wanted to get what I had out and not wait for the rest Aug 24 15:45:31 yeah, i understand Aug 24 15:45:43 I'm going to try to get it posted this week Aug 24 15:45:55 oh, that's a reasonable form of shortly :) Aug 24 15:46:33 I've seen a draft and I based much of the other document on an abstracted version of the kernel guidelines. Aug 24 15:46:55 I always try to get what I have out now and not be held up by other stuff Aug 24 15:46:59 > Other MeeGo Project Contributions Aug 24 15:47:02 doesn't mention irc Aug 24 15:47:36 timeless: good point Aug 24 15:48:02 DawnFoster: the page is text heavy Aug 24 15:48:07 a flowchart would be nice Aug 24 15:48:12 (boy, i must work for nokia) Aug 24 15:48:28 timeless_mbp: also, the flowchart must be visibly made in Paint Aug 24 15:48:29 ? Aug 24 15:48:50 Stskeeps: the flow chart must have lines which criss-cross and aren't level? Aug 24 15:49:07 … and some lines must be missing directional arrows Aug 24 15:49:16 ok - added IRC Aug 24 15:49:29 not a fan of flowcharts Aug 24 15:49:32 -> ( send it upstream ) Aug 24 15:49:35 | Aug 24 15:49:36 v Aug 24 15:49:57 -> (send patch to meego-dev) Aug 24 15:49:58 | Aug 24 15:49:59 v Aug 24 15:50:05 (create attachment in bugzilla) Aug 24 15:50:13 \ | Aug 24 15:50:16 v Aug 24 15:50:33 -> (be happy) Aug 24 15:50:34 | Aug 24 15:50:35 v Aug 24 15:50:39 (escalate) Aug 24 15:50:53 i'm personally not a fan of flow charts at all Aug 24 15:50:59 but your page risks "tl;dr" Aug 24 15:51:10 I think that flowchart should be pasted directly :P Aug 24 15:51:20 and there's no way for me to know that i want "Escalation" Aug 24 15:51:34 there's an idiotic group here which used "escalate" a lot. Aug 24 15:51:50 but outside of that group, i've never really seen the word used, so it isn't a word i would scan for Aug 24 15:51:58 a flow chart would make it obvious Aug 24 15:54:34 mpb: mark is going to try to respond this morning Aug 24 15:55:02 timeless: I'm starting to agree on the flowchart Aug 24 15:55:17 :) Aug 24 15:55:56 I'm also graphically challenged :) Aug 24 15:56:09 you can try using "dot" Aug 24 15:56:31 but this is simple enough - anyone want to take a shot at making it pretty? Aug 24 15:57:02 Stskeeps: you're the one who knows what not to do ;-) Aug 24 16:00:17 timeless: I don't think stskeeps is taking the bait :) Aug 24 16:01:23 it was worth a try Aug 24 16:01:26 i'm trying google's docs Aug 24 16:01:31 have you tried worms? Aug 24 16:03:18 (and lemmings before worms) Aug 24 16:03:51 sorry, was laying in bed reading a book :P Aug 24 16:04:19 Stskeeps, thats not good since your missus is waiting for her dinner :P Aug 24 16:04:28 lcuk: already sorted Aug 24 16:04:34 ++ Aug 24 16:04:35 :D Aug 24 16:05:31 https://docs.google.com/drawings/edit?id=1Y7T4kfYW5xoppuItd3gCdKr7vxVz2jP21MU0X_BtSjc&hl=en&authkey=CJWvxNEL Aug 24 16:05:35 is what i'm starting w/ Aug 24 16:06:10 timeless_mbp: nice and simple :) Aug 24 16:06:36 once it gets more complicated, flow charting is kills you over or overkill :) Aug 24 16:06:58 i vote for a text adventure game Aug 24 16:07:24 "submit bad kernel patch -> you got eaten by a grue" Aug 24 16:08:14 I like stskeeps' idea :) Aug 24 16:08:18 Stskeeps, I approve of this mechanism Aug 24 16:08:46 * lcuk used to want email delivery via doom, if oyu make it to the virtual recipients desk it arrives, if not the mail is lost in post Aug 24 16:09:06 anyone going to meego dev day in sf? Aug 24 16:09:08 timeless: looking good Aug 24 16:09:18 hiosfan: I'll be there Aug 24 16:09:32 i'm 50/50 Aug 24 16:09:38 I'm giving a short talk during lunch about the meego community Aug 24 16:09:47 quim will be there, too Aug 24 16:09:49 nioce Aug 24 16:10:13 I'll also be attending some of the meego sessions at idf on Monday Aug 24 16:10:20 anyone know how to increase the size of a google drawing? Aug 24 16:10:34 what's idf Aug 24 16:10:43 Intel Developer Forum Aug 24 16:11:19 http://www.intel.com/idf/ Aug 24 16:11:32 should we write meego apps in english 1st or european langs 1st? Aug 24 16:11:52 hlosfan, I recommend writing in qt first Aug 24 16:12:11 qt no prob Aug 24 16:12:21 timeless_mbp: almost like a silent webinar Aug 24 16:12:34 hlosfan: Depends what language you think your translator base will be speaking. Aug 24 16:13:07 curious where mass market of devices will be first Aug 24 16:13:09 doing them in Chinese or Japanese is more eleet. Aug 24 16:13:21 lol Aug 24 16:13:50 不好 Aug 24 16:14:04 BTW, I hope Unicode has a page for ancient Egyptian... Aug 24 16:15:34 sarcastic dude Aug 24 16:16:28 DawnFoster: ok, check that url? Aug 24 16:17:03 this still cracks me up http://consumertrack.blogspot.com/2010/08/clownsumers-at-it-again-nokia-n9-leaked.html i wanna see more leaks Aug 24 16:23:29 DawnFoster: ok, do you want a PNG, JPG, SVG or PDF? :) Aug 24 16:45:21 looks great! How about png? Aug 24 16:45:35 and svg in case we need to edit it later Aug 24 16:47:30 ok, where do you want them? Aug 24 16:47:42 where can I get the emgd driver from? Aug 24 16:47:54 i suppose i can stick them on mxr.meego.com :) Aug 24 16:48:07 want to make it work with ubuntu Aug 24 16:48:40 timeless_mbp: that works Aug 24 16:49:31 http://mxr.meego.com/ContributingapatchtoMeeGo.png http://mxr.meego.com/ContributingapatchtoMeeGo.svg Aug 24 17:00:20 the world is coming to an end, cnn.com has news story comments.. Aug 24 17:01:40 nahh the world will come to an end when they use those comments as articles themselves :P Aug 24 17:01:53 lcuk: that happens on danish newspapers.. Aug 24 17:02:32 its not a bad thing, slashdot allows comments to be promoted up through the firehose Aug 24 17:06:10 timeless: thanks so much for pulling this together! Aug 24 17:06:51 Stskeeps: just now? at least they did not wait with it for the weekend :) Aug 24 17:12:41 hi Aug 24 17:12:45 err Aug 24 17:12:58 I can't add an icon app to MyApp zone ? Aug 24 17:17:27 You can pin it Aug 24 17:17:50 that'll mark it as a "favorite" and display it on the MyZone Aug 24 17:18:03 I would like to add qtcreator Aug 24 17:18:07 but it does not appear Aug 24 17:18:12 there is no icon to pin Aug 24 17:18:17 It should appear in Programming Aug 24 17:18:27 ? Aug 24 17:18:37 I don't have any categories Aug 24 17:18:42 just a panel with a lot of icons Aug 24 17:18:51 this the netbook or the handheld ux ? Aug 24 17:19:01 If it's the later, I don't know anything about it Aug 24 17:19:03 netbook Aug 24 17:19:24 on netbook you should have an Applications icon in the MeeGo toolbar Aug 24 17:19:31 yup Aug 24 17:19:42 and I have no qtcreator in it Aug 24 17:19:57 Ok, on there, you'll get a page split with fav's on the left and a separated list of applications on the main boady Aug 24 17:19:59 body Aug 24 17:20:19 The title for the section has an arrow that indicates it's expandable or collapsable Aug 24 17:20:28 yes Aug 24 17:20:44 QTCreator should have created a new Programming section Aug 24 17:21:25 Assuming you installed the rpm Aug 24 17:21:40 slaine: http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/5089/capturemf.png Aug 24 17:21:47 I have installed Aug 24 17:22:04 I can run qtcreator within a terminal Aug 24 17:22:26 there is no arrow Aug 24 17:22:52 eek, that looks nothing like mine Aug 24 17:23:26 how yours look like ? Aug 24 17:23:50 I don't have mine to hand, but the site has shots that show what mine looks like Aug 24 17:23:51 http://meego.com/sites/all/files/users/u3/meego-netbook-app-launcher.png Aug 24 17:24:06 hmm Aug 24 17:24:34 unless there's a preference that you have to enable ?? Aug 24 17:24:38 Shit, I've to go catch a bus Aug 24 17:24:42 I'll be online later Aug 24 17:24:45 sorry Aug 24 17:24:51 ok Aug 24 17:29:37 DawnFoster, are you sure you want to publically ask people to ignite portland? Aug 24 17:30:01 publicly even Aug 24 17:30:11 sure - why not? Aug 24 17:30:46 DawnFoster, pyromaniacs!!oneone111!! Aug 24 17:30:51 it's held at a local theater in Portland & we usually have 600+ people attending Aug 24 17:30:53 ha! Aug 24 17:31:00 no real fires allowed :) Aug 24 17:31:05 thats good then :D Aug 24 17:31:21 yeah, we also live stream it Aug 24 17:31:39 I've been one of the organizers since the beginning Aug 24 17:31:52 it's a fun event Aug 24 17:32:02 awesome Aug 24 17:32:10 portland is very mellow Aug 24 17:32:11 do you have specific infrastructure for the streaming? Aug 24 17:32:13 only fake fire allowed Aug 24 17:32:21 or is it just normal apps and bandwidth? Aug 24 17:34:13 we have a guy at Blaze Streaming Media who does it for us Aug 24 17:34:21 he brings in his own bandwidth Aug 24 17:34:30 he does a lot of corporate & tech events. Aug 24 17:35:11 apparently, we love to name things after fire Aug 24 17:35:12 http://www.blazestreaming.com/ Aug 24 17:37:16 lol DawnFoster Aug 24 17:37:22 what is the command to update desktop database ? Aug 24 17:37:37 desktop database? Aug 24 17:37:53 also the icon things like that Aug 24 17:39:05 there's no real database for that Aug 24 17:39:07 it's a directory Aug 24 17:39:09 vlj: does this help: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_FAQ#How_can_I_get_my_newly_installed_application_to_appear_in_the_menu.3F Aug 24 17:39:16 you can argue that a directory with files is a database ;) Aug 24 17:39:26 but that's more a meta discussion that should be had over beer Aug 24 17:39:44 vlj: that link has details about creating the directory files to specific icons Aug 24 17:39:59 basically, what arjan said, but with links :) Aug 24 17:40:13 DawnFoster: the issue is that qtcreator should already provide its icon Aug 24 17:40:56 vlj: the icon for qtcreator itself or apps created with qt? Aug 24 17:41:04 for qtcreator itself Aug 24 17:41:54 hmm, the icon appeared just fine when I installed it on meego netbook Aug 24 17:42:06 not here Aug 24 17:42:30 how did you install it? Aug 24 17:42:39 with the dedicated app Aug 24 17:42:45 the "manage my app" Aug 24 17:42:59 I'm reinstalling it with yum right now Aug 24 17:43:11 hum Aug 24 17:43:14 it appeared :p Aug 24 17:43:20 sweet! magic Aug 24 17:43:23 is there 2 differents package manager ?? Aug 24 17:43:29 I mean there is zypper and yum Aug 24 17:43:36 but they "work" together or ...? Aug 24 17:44:15 not sure - I've mostly used zypper on meego Aug 24 17:44:51 I mostly use yum :p Aug 24 17:47:23 qml is hard to use Aug 24 17:47:43 why? Aug 24 17:47:57 it's not that intuitive Aug 24 17:48:01 in my opinion Aug 24 17:49:07 I like qt Aug 24 17:49:16 it's javascript Aug 24 17:49:36 the link between qml and qt c++ is not...obvious Aug 24 17:49:59 right Aug 24 17:52:29 but the results are quite impressing according to demo on qt website Aug 24 17:54:47 arjan: what about adding dkms to meego ? Aug 24 17:55:21 this would allow for easier management for non free driver Aug 24 17:56:10 qml looks an awful lot like EFL's Edje layout/state descriptor language Aug 24 17:56:21 ELF ? Aug 24 17:56:45 enlightenment foundation libraries Aug 24 18:03:51 mdp, and they both look like any other markup language, html/xml being more notable than edje :P Aug 24 18:04:06 used in a "few" more places etc ;) Aug 24 18:04:09 lcuk, hehe Aug 24 18:05:01 is there any tutorial on qml/C++ ? Aug 24 18:05:06 none of it is very readable :) Aug 24 18:05:53 mdp, both are much more readable than brainf*ck so we can be happy for some things Aug 24 18:06:01 indeed Aug 24 18:06:02 * lcuk once tried to code in brainf*ck Aug 24 18:06:29 lcuk: you should have tried SML instead Aug 24 18:07:16 according to wikipedia, SML is seemingly normal Aug 24 18:07:25 My favorite is, of course, YaMB, but there is no way you will find hardware for that Aug 24 18:07:47 lcuk: in a way, yes Aug 24 18:12:16 RST38h, thats so obscure I can only find links to unrelated Aug 24 18:54:29 mdp: most of the material is still being prepared, for the launch Aug 24 18:54:38 there's some online documentation and the examples, though Aug 24 19:55:28 "Local Folders has 0 new messages." thanks, shredder! ;) Aug 24 21:49:23 nite all, sweet dreams Aug 24 22:02:51 has UTouch Framework been considered as a base inteface counterpart for MeeGo? Aug 24 23:59:58 bye **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 25 02:59:57 2010