**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 30 02:59:57 2010 Sep 30 03:06:29 hi all Sep 30 05:03:52 hi does anyone know how to compile meego Sep 30 07:18:07 hah, the plot thickens ! ... We have been looking into the Visa Invitation Letters for the MeeGo conference. Due to the requirements from the Irish Consulate that we could not meet, we are forwarding on any requests for Visa Invitation Letters... Sep 30 07:18:27 hmm? Sep 30 07:19:13 that's from who? Sep 30 07:19:22 and what is 'forwarding on'? Sep 30 07:19:22 :P Sep 30 07:21:12 I'm the problem child with the wrong bird on the passport, so I get pingponged a bit :) Sep 30 07:21:34 yeah, but it's .. bad if the visa stuff is messed up Sep 30 07:21:58 cos there's a bigger portion of speakers who'd need that Sep 30 07:22:09 oh, it's not messed up, it's *about* to get messed up :P Sep 30 07:23:21 cos it takes 4-8 weeks normally Sep 30 07:23:58 that's why I said 'about to' :) plus we don't have sponsorhip results... fun all around :) Sep 30 07:24:15 4-8 weeks? For real? Sep 30 07:24:47 I would have expected visa stuff to be 1-2 weeks (don't need one myself though) Sep 30 07:25:42 also the hotel reservation site seems to be down ;) Sep 30 07:27:40 Ronksu: that's what they say, but I guess depends on the country/particular case, too Sep 30 07:28:53 achipa: should probably poke amy on the issue.. Sep 30 07:37:48 Stskeeps: in fact, I'll poke... Jaffa :) Sep 30 07:37:52 or that Sep 30 07:38:26 i vote for a EU country next time Sep 30 07:38:26 :P Sep 30 07:38:31 ie, schengen Sep 30 07:46:57 Stskeeps: yes important difference, schengen != eu :) Sep 30 07:47:01 yeah Sep 30 07:47:50 schengen = eu - IE - UK + NO + CH + IS + lichtenstein Sep 30 07:48:11 * Stskeeps just hopes this doesn't end up in a visa fiasco on conference Sep 30 07:59:13 Morning, all Sep 30 08:00:20 Stskeeps: We had visa fun in a Schengen country (.nl) last year Sep 30 08:00:27 achipa: Who'd you get that email from? Sep 30 08:13:50 is there somewhere any specs of WeTab, which Qt it has? Sep 30 08:13:57 meego 1.0 ased Sep 30 08:13:58 based Sep 30 08:14:00 so 4.6 probably Sep 30 08:17:03 probably same that n8/e7 have then. Sep 30 08:18:19 does it have Qt Mobility? Sep 30 08:24:17 Jaffa: Jacynth Roberts Sep 30 08:24:33 company? Sep 30 08:24:46 linuxfoundation Sep 30 08:25:02 if that counts as a company :) Sep 30 08:25:05 ah Sep 30 08:25:35 Jaffa: wait until next year - there were ideas that meego conferences should alternate between Europe and the Americas :) Sep 30 08:26:05 I can just hope that means Canada and not the US otherwise we'll get to know a whole new level of fun :) Sep 30 08:26:58 sx0n: should have, 1.0.2 most likely Sep 30 08:27:12 achipa, ok, thanks. Sep 30 08:27:43 achipa: No more PDF reverse engineering then Sep 30 08:28:37 doesn't mean it actually *works* though :) Sep 30 08:28:47 (with regard to various backends and all) Sep 30 08:28:47 * sx0n is thinking porting app to webtab. Sep 30 08:29:29 got a wetab? Sep 30 08:29:30 :P Sep 30 08:29:42 no, that's why i am asking Sep 30 08:29:45 :) Sep 30 08:29:48 ah Sep 30 08:30:34 qt everywhere, it should work if we just compile it ;) Sep 30 08:31:03 no, that saying goes like this: if it compiles, ship it ! :P Sep 30 08:31:20 (I kid, I kid) Sep 30 08:31:27 achipa, do you happen to know does it include webkit? Sep 30 08:31:42 achipa: you'd be surprised just how many people have attitudes like that that aren't kidding Sep 30 08:32:02 sx0n: they have a repo up somewhere, check the channel logs here for wetab Sep 30 08:32:08 sx0n: so you can check for yourself Sep 30 08:32:21 sx0n: no idea. though should have, 4.6 had it bundled everywhere Sep 30 08:32:55 w00t_, well, Linus says if it compiles, it's good, if it boots it's perfect - so :P sounds like a great attitude :P Sep 30 08:33:36 TermanaN900: booting implies testing, so that's ok Sep 30 08:33:52 Linus' users are people who work with the code/stuff, which is very different from most real life scenarios :) Sep 30 08:34:28 btw anyone know when Niels will be back ? Sep 30 08:34:33 w00t_, why test when you can have everyone else do it for you ;) (I'm kidding, btw) Sep 30 08:34:45 TermanaN900: :-) Sep 30 08:35:09 TermanaN900: ah, the 'measure breakage by number of posts on talk' criteria :D Sep 30 08:36:01 we had our share of fun when we tried to do qt sw for n8 out of the blue. Sep 30 08:38:41 Stskeeps, thanks for tip, i try to reverse engineer some information of it. quick googling did not told much. Sep 30 08:40:55 but apparently any meego device will do. Sep 30 08:44:39 matrixx, o/ Sep 30 08:44:46 o/ Sep 30 08:55:57 matrixx, we could test with n900 that runs meego. it might work Sep 30 09:03:39 sx0n: sure, let's see in which shape the N900 port is Sep 30 09:05:35 matrixx, should be reference device for meego, if that means something Sep 30 09:05:59 sx0n: sure Sep 30 10:02:49 hi all, according to http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010#Sponsored_participants the first round of sponsorship approvals should be already out, has that actually happened? Sep 30 10:41:30 anyone know if there's any key bindings for ivi home menu so I can operate it from something other than a mouse or touchscreen? Sep 30 10:41:45 thought there's supposed to be like 'wheel' stuff Sep 30 10:42:48 yeh that's what I want to do. Where can I find info on that? Sep 30 10:42:57 check the sources for ivihome Sep 30 10:45:47 I was - couldn't spot how it's done. I shall examine in a bit more detail Sep 30 10:51:09 ok I found it. Guess I should look closer before I ask next time :) Sep 30 10:51:12 http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-ivi-ux/ivihome/blobs/master/taskwindow.cpp Sep 30 10:55:35 and looks like it has support for this too http://retail.contourdesign.com/?/products/22 Sep 30 10:56:41 hi all Sep 30 10:56:51 anybody knows how to check version of Meego?:-) Sep 30 10:58:20 cat /etc/issue Sep 30 11:01:40 it works, thanks Tumi_ Sep 30 11:14:53 devanjan were u attending the all hands? Sep 30 11:28:12 Hmm, can anyway point me to the main differences between android and Meego? Or is it just another reincarnation of the same concept? Sep 30 11:28:22 real gnu linux vs not? ;) Sep 30 11:28:58 Heh, people keep saying that. What's non-gnu about android? Sep 30 11:29:10 well, let's start with bionic libc ;) Sep 30 11:29:12 (Genuine question, I don't know!) Sep 30 11:30:24 DrMon: *everything* is different in Android Sep 30 11:30:47 the only thing that is common is the Linux kernel, and even then it's modified Sep 30 11:31:30 and those mods aren't pushed upstream with much enthusiasm Sep 30 11:31:58 more like upstream doesn't receive them with enthusiasm Sep 30 11:32:11 no one can claim google doesn't comply with the gpl Sep 30 11:32:28 complying with the letter doesn't mean complying with the spirit Sep 30 11:32:42 YEah, I know all about that >.> heh, android kernel coding is dodgy. I've been doing some USB work in the kernel a little while ago Sep 30 11:32:45 but android (and some other embedded devices, such as webos) push the point home that linux as is commonly known is gnu/linux Sep 30 11:32:48 the kernel community accepts patches, provided they're good Sep 30 11:32:51 and android is not gnu/linux Sep 30 11:33:05 Their USB gadget driver doesn't unload easily, and when it does, it doesn't reload later. Just hacky coding Sep 30 11:33:14 thiago: good enough to run on millions production systems? :P Sep 30 11:33:20 you can argue semantics all you want Sep 30 11:33:49 don't criticise a company that has a production deadline that is pushing out patches that work because they aren't being merged Sep 30 11:34:10 you've got a team of guys whose job it is to get android working on a device, they're complying with the gpl Sep 30 11:34:52 if the linux kernel team doesn't want those patches, that's their business, but google is trying to get their hardware working to compete in a very competitive market Sep 30 11:35:58 I remember hearing from a kernel hacker once from Intel Sep 30 11:36:21 "I am not going to accept a patch that passes a kernel spinlock via userspace, even if it fixes your bug and lets you ship on the deadline" Sep 30 11:37:14 he was talking to another Intel engineer, mind you Sep 30 11:37:40 the essence of the point is valid though Sep 30 11:37:46 point being: Google has a lot of well-known and good kernel hackers on payroll Sep 30 11:37:57 The whole point of the question was what's non-gnu about android, that's what was answered Sep 30 11:38:03 but i'd argue both sides of the argument are correct in their positions Sep 30 11:38:06 they can maintain their contributions, they can ensure they leave the staging branch that greg KH maintains Sep 30 11:38:16 if they don't do that, the contributions are dropped Sep 30 11:38:18 yup. what an OEM does with your stuff it's their business. but it's not a reason to lower your project standards Sep 30 11:38:29 slaine: android is not at all gnu in itself Sep 30 11:38:35 it has no gnu libs Sep 30 11:38:41 exactly Sep 30 11:38:48 read back Sep 30 11:38:52 it's possible to run android on a gnu system though, but i'm not aware of any devices that do Sep 30 11:39:00 the wetab Sep 30 11:39:11 meego-based internet tablet with dalvik Sep 30 11:39:13 the wetab is a hacked meego 1.0 Sep 30 11:39:18 http://wetab.mobi/en Sep 30 11:39:38 the question is whether they had to hack the android patches into the meego kernel Sep 30 11:39:57 Is phonon supported on Meego? Sep 30 11:40:58 thiago: if you have the patience to dig through their kernel patches and compare, have at it :P Sep 30 11:41:14 * thiago doesn't have the patience Sep 30 11:43:44 oh, and disclaimer, i know the former lead of the android kernel dev team :P Sep 30 11:47:09 most companies just don't get Linux kernel development. Google probably does, but chose not to actively push patches upstream. it's probably more of a business decision Sep 30 11:47:26 even in MeeGo things could be much better Sep 30 11:47:39 look at the meego-kernel mailing list for instance Sep 30 11:47:47 many patches posted there hurt Sep 30 11:49:31 (on the plus side, we have reviewers who make sure that bad patches don't go in :-)) Sep 30 11:54:09 pinchartl: well, as long as those patches flow upstream eventually Sep 30 11:54:19 remember Intel is the #2 contributor to the Linux kernel Sep 30 11:54:25 Nokia is #4 Sep 30 11:54:34 (RH is #1, IBM #3) Sep 30 11:56:27 thiago: Intel has several of the best Linux kernel developers on payroll. but Intel is a big company, and there's a huge difference in kernel contributions quality between different units Sep 30 11:56:59 no doubt Sep 30 12:28:14 I am running the SDK in a chroot. startmeego disappeared. in what package is it? Sep 30 12:37:16 hey lcuk Sep 30 12:37:42 hiya ka :) fancy seeing you out here :P Sep 30 12:38:27 I installed the chroot sdk, gave up on the qemu one :) Sep 30 12:38:48 ahh cool Sep 30 12:39:01 so you run debian as core system don't you? Sep 30 12:39:33 yep Sep 30 12:40:18 which set of instructions did you follow then, because before I had to stop I was looking at the OBS/OSC local install Sep 30 12:40:33 yesterday I had problems updating the sdk chroot to the last daily snap, and the startmeego script disappeared. I guess it was conflicting with some other package Sep 30 12:41:02 lcuk, for the chroot it was quite straightforward. http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_Xephyr Sep 30 12:41:20 lcuk: for the chroot you dont need to care about osc ;) Sep 30 12:41:34 I just copied the image locally instead of mounting it everytime. faster :) Sep 30 12:41:45 eepfrals, sure but does the chroot build packages for multi arch at same time? Sep 30 12:42:02 (which is kinda the point of the OBS angle) Sep 30 12:42:06 lcuk: nope ;) Sep 30 12:42:58 for testing purposes I want to click "Go!" on a builder and have it run on the waiting devices, whether they be arm or x86 flavoured Sep 30 12:43:43 but that will come :) Sep 30 12:44:45 hey lcuk Sep 30 12:44:56 hiya CosmoHill \o Sep 30 12:45:46 * CosmoHill offers tea Sep 30 12:46:04 :) any vodka in there? Sep 30 12:46:13 lcuk, do you use the chroot too? Sep 30 12:47:24 ka, I haven't set it all up yet, backend of last week I was getting organised and checking bounds of the OBS stuff (getting a maemo deb out would be beneficial for apps too) Sep 30 12:48:27 * CosmoHill hands lcuk and Irish tea Sep 30 12:49:34 it is indeed possible to get maemo debs out from an OBS installation but it takes quite a lot of (black) magic Sep 30 12:50:24 lcuk: what is the physical arrangement of an OBS? Is it just a HP cluster? Sep 30 12:52:52 CosmoHill, OBS can be run locally I understand Sep 30 12:52:58 pulling down the things it needs Sep 30 12:53:09 so you could potentially install it on your own cluster :P Sep 30 12:53:27 I have external IPs now :) Sep 30 12:53:51 Bostik, not sure whether its possible but it would be a benefit for certain uses Sep 30 12:53:56 oooh CosmoHill Sep 30 12:54:08 I have a completely stripped bathroom Sep 30 12:54:34 can anyone using a sdk chroot do a "rpm -qf /usr/bin/startmeego" (with the right path if it's wrong), please? I'd need to know what package it belongs to :) Sep 30 12:54:53 lcuk: I have done it, it took a lot of work and am awful lot of dirty tricks Sep 30 12:55:06 Bostik, did you document it? Sep 30 12:55:13 lcuk: go on... Sep 30 12:55:21 lcuk: the biggest problems are build-deps that either directly or or indirectly require anything that is nokia-proprietary Sep 30 12:56:28 lcuk: for work yes, but due to trickery required we haven't been able to make it public; not to mention it's a rough prototype Sep 30 12:57:40 Bostik, reasonable enough Sep 30 12:57:45 prototypes are where the future comes from :) Sep 30 13:00:33 lcuk: hint #1: if you want to build anything in native mode that uses Qt, you can't use maemo's qt packages; the -dev package contains i386 binaries because they are designed to be used ONLY in sbox/madde type of environments Sep 30 13:01:15 lots o' fun Sep 30 13:01:57 yeah, theres lots of issues - its a shame that on device compilation is such a PITA at the moment Sep 30 13:02:06 would be easier to squirt sources and build on the box Sep 30 13:02:59 my dream system for OBS would be a farm of 16 or 24 fast ARM boards for workers, each with plenty of memory Sep 30 13:04:12 well will 16/24 be enough to build packages for all compatible targets for every package every person pushes to it? Sep 30 13:04:16 in a timely fashion? Sep 30 13:04:37 you misunderstood :) Sep 30 13:04:49 that would be a dream system for *personal* use Sep 30 13:05:04 ++ :) Sep 30 13:06:17 lcuk: you've confused me with your stripped bathroom Sep 30 13:06:54 CosmoHill don't worry, I am very confused myself this week which is why I haven't been sat on thecomputer Sep 30 13:10:49 I need to word my ideas into a question Sep 30 13:12:46 anyone have wetab? Sep 30 13:28:36 Is it just me or does wetab sound like some sort of urinary disorder ? Sep 30 13:28:51 hehe Sep 30 13:29:31 everytime I read it, part of me flinches. Sep 30 13:30:21 as long as it's not a wet ab... Sep 30 13:31:29 though in this context I'm very happy that we got MeeGo and not WeeGo... that would have been... disturbing Sep 30 13:32:40 lol Sep 30 13:33:31 * w00t_ inserts joke about Nintendo here Sep 30 13:33:48 * thiago looks at the blue USB stick saying "weego" on his desk Sep 30 13:33:56 I'm not kidding Sep 30 13:34:06 thiago: I want one Sep 30 13:34:53 http://www.weego.fi/ Sep 30 13:36:47 'delicious weego solutions and services' Sep 30 13:36:52 this joke gets worse and worse.. Sep 30 13:37:35 I ran into this a while ago: http://inoob.fi/ Sep 30 13:37:44 Sure makes you want to trust their expertise... Sep 30 13:37:58 lol Sep 30 13:38:04 lol Sep 30 13:38:33 jnwi: o/ btw Sep 30 13:39:38 yeah? Sep 30 13:39:57 oh, right, hi to you too :) Sep 30 13:39:59 just saying hi :) Sep 30 13:40:27 yeah, I realized :) Sep 30 13:43:04 Will you be coming to future meetups? Sep 30 13:43:26 I hope to be at the next one at least, I don't know if I'll be in helsinki after 19th of october, so we'll see Sep 30 13:44:27 k. It might be during the 2nd week. Sep 30 13:44:41 in which case I'll make it :-) Sep 30 13:45:04 Great! Sep 30 13:46:06 Bergie will soon meet (or has met, don't know) the person who offered to host the next one. Sep 30 13:47:25 cool Sep 30 13:49:30 Btw, the next meetup will probably be announced here: http://www.meetup.com/Helsinki-MeeGo-Network Sep 30 14:26:13 Robot101: thanks for retweeting that link Sep 30 14:29:35 Myrtti: it'd be funny if it wasn't so depressing Sep 30 14:30:44 unless it's so depressing it becomes funny again (just like me) Sep 30 14:59:15 has anyone tried building panel-web with chromium 7.0? Sep 30 15:01:23 w00t_: Yay, I feel I can add value on meego-dev :) Sep 30 15:01:32 Jaffa: hmmm? Sep 30 15:02:05 w00t_: re: setRoughPosition (or whatever it was) Sep 30 15:02:15 Jaffa: ooh :) Sep 30 15:41:20 exit Sep 30 15:41:22 oops Sep 30 16:07:56 thiago, the wetab runs android within a VM on MeeGo Sep 30 16:08:55 do you mean it runs android in a VM, or it runs android apps in a VM? Sep 30 16:09:04 android apps are java, so they run in a jvm anyway Sep 30 16:09:30 full android 2.2, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=1266&page=3 Sep 30 16:09:48 * CosmoHill wonders where vgrade with tail learns these things Sep 30 16:09:50 sounds like a waste Sep 30 16:12:16 I mean, waste because dalvik is a Linux app and Android is running Linux Sep 30 16:12:33 if only Android shared infrastructure... Sep 30 16:14:05 I don't think android apps run in a jvm fyi Sep 30 16:14:15 I'm pretty sure dalvik is quite different Sep 30 16:14:44 ScottishDuck: I believe thiago meant _a_ jvm, not _the_ JVM ;) Sep 30 16:16:09 android apps aren't compiled to native code, they're compiled to dalvik bytecode Sep 30 16:16:25 so the bytecode needs to be interpreted or JITted anyway Sep 30 16:21:08 Stskeeps: ping Sep 30 16:34:28 Stskeeps: unping Sep 30 16:34:58 that's a new one Sep 30 16:54:47 hi all Sep 30 19:10:45 Khertan: ping Sep 30 19:58:24 hi Sep 30 19:58:33 hi Sep 30 19:59:18 I've seen that there is only the english hunspell package... is there a way to have the italian one too without compiling it? (maybe stealing it from fedora or other similar distro?) Sep 30 20:07:18 I just realized that maybe I don't need hunspell... I only need abiword to check my ortography :| any idea? Sep 30 20:46:44 hi all. im booting ivi 1.0 in a hp core duo laptop and the mouse/touchpad doesnt work. Sep 30 20:47:02 how can i enable it? Sep 30 20:47:42 does meego work on arm eabi? Sep 30 20:50:58 Lopi: yes Sep 30 20:51:21 arm v7, eabi, little-endian, hard fp vfpv3 Sep 30 20:51:37 as far as I know, no one uses oabi for new projects Sep 30 21:34:47 touchpad mouse doesnt work. tried a lilliput touchscreen and it too didnt work Sep 30 22:18:55 Hello duck of Scottish origins Sep 30 22:19:40 hello Sep 30 23:34:13 Anyone know why icons for/on the taskbar would disappear? (IVI) They were there initially when I installed, now they are gone after some upgrades Sep 30 23:54:21 smithna try this: http://meego.com/devices/in-vehicle/in-vehicle-faq#q13 Oct 01 00:53:06 brenddie: Thanks! Oct 01 00:53:48 np Oct 01 01:45:29 Hey, i just installed meebo, i was wondering what the cli package management system was. Oct 01 01:47:18 gary6: yum or zypper, your choice Oct 01 01:48:38 cool and what repositories is it based on, and can I add more. Oct 01 01:49:08 ok, ^^ just relised that was kinda stupid to ask... Oct 01 01:50:18 awesome, ill have a play around with zypper, and ill be back soon when i break it :) Oct 01 02:06:39 how do you update the repos because my install doesn't seem to be able to locate alot of them? Oct 01 02:07:02 is their a online list of the current repos? Oct 01 02:22:55 gary6: have you already tried zypper from the command line? Oct 01 02:24:34 gary6: details - http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_Updates#Can.27t_See_the_Continue_Button_on_First_Update **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 01 02:59:57 2010