**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 12 02:59:57 2010
Oct 12 04:59:27 <Macer> good evening
Oct 12 04:59:40 <Macer> how is the n900 project coming along?
Oct 12 04:59:45 <Macer> anything worth using real worldish yet?
Oct 12 05:11:50 <Stskeeps> Macer: well, we have a pretty shiny video
Oct 12 05:12:17 <Stskeeps> and we can make phonecalls
Oct 12 05:12:25 <Stskeeps> like, with, audio
Oct 12 05:12:42 <RST38h> With audio of what? =)
Oct 12 05:13:12 <Stskeeps> of the other person, duh
Oct 12 05:13:18 <Stskeeps> Macer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWtMLs3j09U&feature=player_embedded
Oct 12 05:16:48 <TheBootroo_> i can't even try my n900's usb port is broken :-( :-(
Oct 12 05:17:02 <TheBootroo_> i'm so sad
Oct 12 05:17:28 <TheBootroo_> Stskeeps: do you think the version of 27 october will be stable on N900 ?
Oct 12 05:17:29 <psycho_oreos> which build number is your n900?
Oct 12 05:17:47 <TheBootroo_> psycho_oreos: were can i find that ?
Oct 12 05:18:30 <Stskeeps> TheBootroo_: i can't tell the future but it's going to be there, it's going to have known bugs just like every other product and life goes on in 1.2
Oct 12 05:19:06 <Stskeeps> we are on a fixed release schedule and it has to be followed, but it isn't as fancy as i would have hoped
Oct 12 05:19:24 <TheBootroo_> Stskeeps: ok. and about bluetooth and 3G is it going to work soon ?
Oct 12 05:19:46 <TheBootroo_> becuase there is already bluez and ofono for that no ?
Oct 12 05:19:55 <Stskeeps> phonecalls work, 3g networking isn't a 1.1 feature. bluetooth works but there's a bug crashing bluetoothd we're investigating
Oct 12 05:20:24 <TheBootroo_> so you mean ofono is not intégrated yet ? and will not be soon  ?
Oct 12 05:20:32 <Stskeeps> no, it is there
Oct 12 05:20:41 <Stskeeps> except there's no UI to set up the network connections
Oct 12 05:20:48 <Stskeeps> we can't exactly make phonecalls without ofono :)
Oct 12 05:20:53 <TheBootroo_> hum ok
Oct 12 05:20:56 <TheBootroo_> so
Oct 12 05:20:59 <TheBootroo_> technically
Oct 12 05:21:16 <Tumi_> Stskeeps: will oFono be version 0.26?
Oct 12 05:21:23 <TheBootroo_> i can make a qt ui to configure ofono with my sim and it must work ?
Oct 12 05:21:33 <Tumi_> so does GSM network work?
Oct 12 05:21:39 <TheBootroo_> (i'm c++/qt developer)
Oct 12 05:21:39 <Stskeeps> TheBootroo_: right - i haven't tested this, but yes
Oct 12 05:21:39 <Tumi_> mean, cellular data?
Oct 12 05:21:45 <TheBootroo_> ok
Oct 12 05:21:46 <TheBootroo_> cool
Oct 12 05:22:01 <TheBootroo_> Tumi_: apparently
Oct 12 05:22:12 <TheBootroo_> if i understood right
Oct 12 05:22:16 <Stskeeps> it does if you hack it to do so :)
Oct 12 05:22:18 <TheBootroo_> it can work b
Oct 12 05:22:23 <TheBootroo_> but we cant test
Oct 12 05:22:37 <TheBootroo_> that's good for me
Oct 12 05:22:39 <Stskeeps> TheBootroo_: yes, ofono 0.26
Oct 12 05:22:41 <Stskeeps> er, Tumi_
Oct 12 05:22:52 <TheBootroo_> at least when my n900 will be powered up again
Oct 12 05:22:58 <Tumi_> Stskeeps: ok thnx
Oct 12 05:23:27 * Stskeeps has his coffee
Oct 12 05:23:32 <TheBootroo_> Stskeeps: when will be able to run plain qt apps on meego ?
Oct 12 05:23:34 <Tumi_> Just created module to change GSM/UMTS/LTE network but it's only in 0.31
Oct 12 05:23:57 <TheBootroo_> because it seem to have a bug tracked for that it doesn't work .
Oct 12 05:24:15 <Tumi_> really? what's wrong with that?
Oct 12 05:24:26 <TheBootroo_> Tumi_: not you
Oct 12 05:24:34 <TheBootroo_> Tumi_: was speakin to Stskeeps
Oct 12 05:24:40 <Stskeeps> TheBootroo_: ah, 7881 - it should be in next release candidate and is already in trunk daily
Oct 12 05:24:52 <TheBootroo_> Stskeeps: ok
Oct 12 05:24:56 <Stskeeps> TheBootroo_: support needs to be improved but at least it's not a white screen
Oct 12 05:25:01 <TheBootroo_> Stskeeps: and they are takin native look ?
Oct 12 05:25:27 <Tumi_> TheBootroo_: just wondering since I've been running native qt apps just fine
Oct 12 05:25:31 <Stskeeps> TheBootroo_: not sure about theming - but it's definately an area 1.2 can improve in
Oct 12 05:25:53 <TheBootroo_> ok
Oct 12 05:25:54 <Stskeeps> anyway, you two: #meego-arm is probably a place you'd like to hang out in
Oct 12 05:26:17 <TheBootroo_> i have a question for you Stskeeps
Oct 12 05:26:42 <TheBootroo_> since my N900 is kinda broken, i would like to continue my testing of weekly builds
Oct 12 05:27:03 <TheBootroo_> so can i try the i86 vesion on a eee pc that is at home ?
Oct 12 05:27:13 <TheBootroo_> and overall how
Oct 12 05:27:18 <Stskeeps> depends on which eee pc
Oct 12 05:27:29 <Stskeeps> has to be an atom based one
Oct 12 05:27:39 <TheBootroo_> 701, 800x480 screen so same res a N900,
Oct 12 05:27:48 <TheBootroo_> and for atom, no its nots needed
Oct 12 05:28:02 <Stskeeps> well, it is for meego x86 :P
Oct 12 05:28:03 <psycho_oreos> TheBootroo_, I meant hardware revision (after trying to google build number lead me to nowhere desirable). Try typing this into n900: flasher -i --local
Oct 12 05:28:30 <TheBootroo_> cause i've already run meego netbook on it but it was indicated to work only on SSSE2
Oct 12 05:28:32 <TheBootroo_> *3
Oct 12 05:28:45 <Stskeeps> TheBootroo_: right, but handset's a different beast
Oct 12 05:29:28 <TheBootroo_> what is using specifically SSSE3 functionnality which couldn't be turn off ?
Oct 12 05:29:56 <Stskeeps> think qt is using it quite extensively
Oct 12 05:29:57 <TheBootroo_> if its just something about power management i really don care
Oct 12 05:29:59 <Stskeeps> though i'm not sure
Oct 12 05:30:11 <Stskeeps> it's like NEON on ARM side, big benefits
Oct 12 05:30:21 <TheBootroo_> arf your speakin about the SIMD ?
Oct 12 05:30:29 <Stskeeps> mm, i guess
Oct 12 05:30:41 <Stskeeps> either way: there's a build for netbooks still i think
Oct 12 05:30:43 <Stskeeps> of handset ux
Oct 12 05:31:01 <TheBootroo_> so it can run without, maybe slowly but workin however
Oct 12 05:31:13 <TheBootroo_> Stskeeps: where can a find it ?
Oct 12 05:31:36 <Stskeeps> repo.meego.com under handset/
Oct 12 05:31:40 <Stskeeps> in one of the builds
Oct 12 05:31:44 <TheBootroo_> yes i know
Oct 12 05:31:47 <Stskeeps> well, it might break
Oct 12 05:31:49 <TheBootroo_> but there are many builds
Oct 12 05:31:58 <TheBootroo_> which one is the good ?
Oct 12 05:32:20 <Stskeeps> who knows :) test reports says that, go for the most recent: http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.2 , http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.1
Oct 12 05:32:29 <Stskeeps> but now i gotta have my coffeee
Oct 12 05:33:01 <TheBootroo_> what is mtf ?
Oct 12 05:33:14 <Stskeeps> meego touch framework
Oct 12 05:33:35 <TheBootroo_> ok
Oct 12 05:33:38 <TheBootroo_> thanks
Oct 12 05:33:42 <TheBootroo_> let get your coofee
Oct 12 05:33:46 <TheBootroo_> i'll do the same
Oct 12 05:33:47 <TheBootroo_> ;-)
Oct 12 05:33:56 <TheBootroo_> geeks we r 4ev3r
Oct 12 06:06:25 <Guest81330> Hi All , I need to know how to add Qt package name to quick start ks file
Oct 12 06:07:36 <Guest81330> I added as "qt" to %package section in ks file but it downloaded only qtcore4 ...not all qtgui4 , qt4 etc
Oct 12 06:07:58 <Stskeeps> it should be pulled in if you have things depending on them
Oct 12 06:46:09 <Guest81330> Stskeeps , if qtgui4 is not dependent on qtcore4 , how would it has to be named ?
Oct 12 06:46:43 <Stskeeps> try adding qt-devel or something..
Oct 12 06:47:02 <Guest81330> I supposed naming as "qt" should have downloaded all these pkgs ...  I am referring to   http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/core/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/
Oct 12 06:47:23 <Guest81330> ok ..I will try with qt-devel
Oct 12 07:11:19 <Guest81330> Stskeeps , it works now ..all pkg being downloaded ..thanks a lot
Oct 12 08:07:24 <Myrtti> plirp. moin.
Oct 12 08:07:28 <Stskeeps> moin
Oct 12 09:49:49 * CosmoHill pokes DawnFoster 
Oct 12 09:49:52 <CosmoHill> oh wait, UTC-8
Oct 12 09:54:08 <CosmoHill> lcuk: looks like I can't do a poll on the forum as there are 21 suggestions and the maximum poll size is 10
Oct 12 09:54:32 <CosmoHill> hey Myrtti
Oct 12 09:59:54 <Myrtti> ohai
Oct 12 10:07:15 <CosmoHill> yay I remembered by own phone number :)
Oct 12 10:30:36 <lcuk> CosmoHill, ignore the silly ones
Oct 12 10:30:57 <CosmoHill> ignoing texrats leaves 16
Oct 12 10:35:05 * CosmoHill sees if he can get ride of some more
Oct 12 10:36:17 <CosmoHill> I could do the top 9 and have 10 as "others"
Oct 12 10:48:29 <CosmoHill> com.*.meego.com is so weird, the URL starts and ends with the same part!
Oct 12 10:54:18 <CosmoHill> lcuk: http://pastebin.cross-lfs.org/16927
Oct 12 10:59:30 <lcuk> c*.meego.com ?
Oct 12 10:59:40 <CosmoHill> i think lbt suggested that
Oct 12 10:59:54 <CosmoHill> i sometimes get you and lbt confused :/
Oct 12 11:00:16 * lbt gets me confused too
Oct 12 11:00:41 <CosmoHill> yeah I'm probably talking to the wrong person about stuff
Oct 12 11:01:57 <CosmoHill> if I drop c*.meego.com i'll reorder com.* with *.community
Oct 12 11:02:19 <CosmoHill> s/*.community/community.*/
Oct 12 11:02:21 <infobot> CosmoHill meant: if I drop c*.meego.com i'll reorder com.* with community.*
Oct 12 11:03:10 <lcuk> CosmoHill,
Oct 12 11:03:22 <lcuk> I meant, what does c*. mean, does it have cool.meego.com   for instance?
Oct 12 11:03:32 <CosmoHill> c = community
Oct 12 11:03:45 <Jaffa> CosmoHill: Isn't the "community" part more significant than the build/api parts? Given DNS is most-significant last, I'd still say <service>.community.meego.com makes most sense
Oct 12 11:04:17 <Jaffa> 'c' prefix is hungarian notation; and doesn't mean anything 'capi.meego.com' - gives you the documentation on the C API of MeeGo? ;-)
Oct 12 11:04:32 <Jaffa> Or, indeed, '<service>.<namespace>.meego.com'
Oct 12 11:07:01 <CosmoHill> okay I've dropped c*.meego
Oct 12 11:07:30 <CosmoHill> any changes before I create a poll on the forum?
Oct 12 11:08:19 <lbt> yes
Oct 12 11:08:46 <lcuk> lbt.meego.com :P
Oct 12 11:08:48 <lbt> CosmoHill: it has to be *.<something>.meego.com ... ie community.api.meego.com is no good
Oct 12 11:09:09 <lbt> capi.meego.com is OK ... but not c.api.meego.com
Oct 12 11:09:30 <CosmoHill> ah okay
Oct 12 11:09:33 <lbt> Jaffa: that's why I *hate* capi :)
Oct 12 11:09:39 <lbt> I read it as C-API too
Oct 12 11:10:02 <lcuk> thank god we dont have rap music on meego
Oct 12 11:10:13 <CosmoHill> do we want to combine pub and public? I have enough slots to separate them now
Oct 12 11:11:43 <CosmoHill> is the community OBS almost ready?
Oct 12 11:16:18 <lbt> yes... it's very ready..,
Oct 12 11:16:32 <lbt> been ready for ages.... waiting on meego.com stuff
Oct 12 11:17:13 <CosmoHill> how long do you want the poll for?
Oct 12 11:17:23 <CosmoHill> IIRC there is a community meeting next tuesday
Oct 12 11:18:01 <CosmoHill> also would you like to allow multiple choice?
Oct 12 11:21:27 <CosmoHill> here we go
Oct 12 11:21:54 <CosmoHill> http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=1671
Oct 12 11:23:44 <stephg> I have voted. I am winning!
Oct 12 11:24:37 <CosmoHill> this is where if someone wants to make a change they need to suggest is very soon
Oct 12 11:24:46 <stephg> heh
Oct 12 11:25:07 <CosmoHill> stephg: does the post make sense to you? I want it to be as clear as possible but english isn't my strong point
Oct 12 11:25:40 <pupnik> "like the most" for *what* purpose?
Oct 12 11:26:01 <pupnik> oh community obs
Oct 12 11:26:11 <stephg> it's pretty clear CosmoHill
Oct 12 11:26:15 <pupnik> can you put that in the title CosmoHill ?
Oct 12 11:26:36 <CosmoHill> the thread is called "Community OBS Naming" :p
Oct 12 11:26:51 <pupnik> ah
Oct 12 11:27:03 <pupnik> my mistake - just skipped right to the question
Oct 12 11:27:12 <stephg> only thing I might say is a little boilerplate about what the OBS is
Oct 12 11:27:17 <adeus> "obs" is taken so just "bs"? :)
Oct 12 11:27:41 <stephg> heh
Oct 12 11:28:18 <pupnik> but seriously CosmoHill - *anytime* you take a poll, be specific in the *poll question* - not the context...
Oct 12 11:29:49 <CosmoHill> I will, as soon as I find the edit button for the poll
Oct 12 11:35:15 <whitewine> Simple question. Is megoo gonna be the next Maemo? I mean comportable backwards.
Oct 12 11:47:32 <CosmoHill> whitewine: meego, and yes it will repleace maemo
Oct 12 11:47:46 <Stskeeps> but no guarantees of compatibility unless you're writing in qt
Oct 12 11:49:08 <whitewine> oh, double "e", not "o" :^)
Oct 12 11:49:11 <whitewine> Thank you
Oct 12 11:56:17 <Jaffa> whitewine: and the "next Maemo" is still Maemoish.
Oct 12 11:57:51 <whitewine> Jaffa, a fork? ;)))
Oct 12 11:57:54 <vilvo> meego-qa-tools weekly at #meego-meeting in 5 mins. welcome.
Oct 12 11:58:59 * CosmoHill sees the price of the N8 and gasps
Oct 12 12:13:24 <lcuk> whos got link to the video of n900 with reasonable drivers and meego reacting reasonably well?
Oct 12 12:14:34 <Stskeeps> planet.maemo.org a few pages back
Oct 12 12:15:27 <frals> lcuk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWtMLs3j09U
Oct 12 12:18:12 <lcuk> frals come and see us, I will go for a smoke using your card :P
Oct 12 12:18:14 <stephg> frals: that's a cool video btw
Oct 12 12:18:19 <lcuk> 5th floor somewhere
Oct 12 12:18:36 <lcuk> wave a trout I will see you
Oct 12 12:19:22 <CosmoHill> frals: pretty
Oct 12 12:20:45 <lcuk> sat near B521
Oct 12 12:29:32 <CosmoHill> http://www.nokia.co.uk/support/product-support/nokia-6220-classic
Oct 12 12:29:37 <CosmoHill> does this page render okay for everyone else?
Oct 12 12:29:43 <CosmoHill> the main content for me is off to the right
Oct 12 12:30:15 <stephg> CosmoHill: looks a mess to me too fwiw
Oct 12 12:30:35 <stonda> broken as well (ff 3.6.10)
Oct 12 12:31:02 <Myrtti> yup, it's messed, with chromium
Oct 12 12:31:55 <CosmoHill> good
Oct 12 12:32:00 <CosmoHill> well, bad, you know what i mean
Oct 12 12:35:11 <CosmoHill> took me ages to find what I wanted
Oct 12 12:35:14 <sugnan> i have the following display for the command lspci | grep VGA,  00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: InnoTek Systemberatung GmbH VirtualBox Graphics Adapter
Oct 12 12:35:14 <sugnan>  but the meego sdk is not working in mine, and i am using xepher, can some one help
Oct 12 12:35:14 <CosmoHill> nokia.com/mac
Oct 12 12:36:03 <sugnan> in the documentation in the link http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_Xephyr, Desired output: 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation ...
Oct 12 12:41:43 <sugnan> can some one please tell, does meego requires controller: Intel Corporation only,
Oct 12 12:42:01 <Stskeeps> sugnan: be more specific :)
Oct 12 12:43:20 <sugnan> Stskeeps, i am a newbie installing the meego sdk, i followed the instructions from the link http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_Xephyr
Oct 12 12:43:51 <Myrtti> and you're doing it inside Virtualbox?
Oct 12 12:44:18 <sugnan> now i have installed everythin but the xephyr display some unusual display wen i start meego
Oct 12 12:44:20 <ni1s> I assume the image only contains a X driver for intel, xf86-video-intel
Oct 12 12:44:22 <sugnan> Myrtti, ya i am
Oct 12 12:45:38 <sugnan> Myrtti, cant we use the meego-sdk in virtual box?
Oct 12 12:45:44 <Stskeeps> not afaik
Oct 12 12:48:22 <sugnan> no is there no way to have meego-sdk on windows?
Oct 12 12:48:38 <Stskeeps> this is platform sdk, there'll be a proper qt based sdk
Oct 12 12:49:07 <sugnan> http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_on_Windows_with_VirtualBox
Oct 12 12:49:22 <ni1s> sugnan, you could install ubuntu or something and install the sdk on that
Oct 12 12:49:36 <ni1s> yeah
Oct 12 12:50:59 <sugnan> nils, ya thats what i have done, but the xephyr is showing some unexpected output,
Oct 12 12:51:53 <ni1s> sugnan, could you pastebin that output?
Oct 12 12:52:16 <sugnan> nils, ya just a min
Oct 12 12:54:43 <frals> lcuk: smoking is bad ;-)
Oct 12 12:56:15 <lcuk> frals, gahhh
Oct 12 12:56:28 <lcuk> it might be bad, but trout is worse
Oct 12 12:57:40 <sugnan> nils, http://yfrog.com/03screenshotikhp
Oct 12 12:59:00 <ni1s> pretty
Oct 12 13:00:36 <lcuk> Stskeeps, who handles handset release integration currently, is there a wikipage for the process yet?
Oct 12 13:00:39 <sugnan> nils, may be i should use a system which has intel?
Oct 12 13:00:47 <Stskeeps> lcuk: define integration
Oct 12 13:01:37 <lcuk> Stskeeps, who decides to accept a patch and make it available, and who does the actual configuration modification to have the .ks including those updated versions?
Oct 12 13:02:08 <ni1s> sugnan, maybe, not sure
Oct 12 13:02:15 <Stskeeps> lcuk: well, there's package maintainers and those controlling the package groups
Oct 12 13:02:29 <Stskeeps> and .ks doesn't usually specify exact version
Oct 12 13:02:46 <sugnan> nils, ok anyways thanks :(
Oct 12 13:03:31 <lcuk> ok Stskeeps, but for integrating new packages or changing the default image contents those need modifying
Oct 12 13:03:44 <Stskeeps> right
Oct 12 13:03:44 <CosmoHill> awesome, itunes is trying to murder my processor with 40% load to play music
Oct 12 13:03:59 <Stskeeps> lcuk: it's a mix of people doing those but in theory anyone can submit requests
Oct 12 13:04:20 <lcuk> so "those controlling the package groups" == umpa lumpas? or real people with email addresses ?
Oct 12 13:05:20 <lcuk> I know anyone can submit requests, its who is dealing with accepting them, and just deciding to accept something usually means legwork after for someone
Oct 12 13:06:28 <Stskeeps> for package groups: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/package-groups , right hand side
Oct 12 13:07:11 <lcuk> Stskeeps, consider it me trying to document and understand the workflow.  thanks \o
Oct 12 13:07:35 <Stskeeps> lcuk: check out wiki/Release_Engineering
Oct 12 13:08:04 <lcuk> :) perfect
Oct 12 13:17:08 <alterego> Where's the git for qemu-gl?
Oct 12 13:17:25 <alterego> nvm, found it ^.^
Oct 12 13:34:07 <alterego> What's pinetrail-mtf?
Oct 12 13:34:37 <alterego> Oh, moorestown variation
Oct 12 13:46:35 * CosmoHill shoos a random cat out of his kitchen
Oct 12 14:35:22 <qgil> ayanes: as a coincidence I just found http://fruct.org/conf7/Yanes_Packages_on_Maemo_MeeGo.pdf  :)
Oct 12 14:37:02 <Stskeeps> morn qgil
Oct 12 14:44:56 <ayanes> qgil yep :P
Oct 12 14:47:10 * qgil is glad to see first contributions to http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Marketing/University_Collaboration
Oct 12 15:17:45 <qgil> dneary  I just answered that email on meego-dev about Stskeeps taking the role of Harri on the N900 releases
Oct 12 15:18:50 <qgil> dneary: you really need to fix your definition of "community" as "MeeGo contributors, except those working at Nokia and Intel"  :)
Oct 12 15:23:23 <dneary> qgil, Thanks
Oct 12 15:23:30 <DawnFoster> qgil: We need a meego conference twitter hashtag.
Oct 12 15:23:31 <DawnFoster> Current leaders are:
Oct 12 15:23:31 <DawnFoster> #MeeGoCon (not really being used) 
Oct 12 15:23:31 <DawnFoster> #MeeGoConf (most people already using this one)
Oct 12 15:23:31 <DawnFoster> #MeeGoConference (too long IMHO)
Oct 12 15:23:41 <dneary> qgil, There's a reason I put community in quotes
Oct 12 15:23:41 <DawnFoster> Unless you have another suggestion, let's go with #MeeGoConf
Oct 12 15:23:59 <dneary> DawnFoster, Looks fine to me
Oct 12 15:24:25 <DawnFoster> also reminder that we have a nice definition of MeeGo Community here: http://meego.com/community
Oct 12 15:25:01 <DawnFoster> qgil: any objections to that hashtag before I start promoting it?
Oct 12 15:27:47 <DawnFoster> *wonders if qgil has his IRC client set to ping him when someone mentions his name* :)
Oct 12 15:28:00 <Myrtti> Meegonf
Oct 12 15:28:02 <Myrtti> :-P
Oct 12 15:28:51 <DawnFoster> Myrtti: let's make it something that no one can spell - part hashtag part intelligence test :)
Oct 12 15:29:11 <qgil> DawnFoster: ok to #MeeGoConf
Oct 12 15:29:53 <DawnFoster> qgil: coolio. Can you mention this in that blog post you're working on along with the Twitter list?
Oct 12 15:30:13 <qgil> DawnFoster: I do, but sometimes I left my headset plugged AND on the table  :)
Oct 12 15:30:25 <qgil> DawnFoster: I will mention it
Oct 12 15:30:57 <DawnFoster> qgil: ha - was mostly harassing you. I wander away from my computer and sometimes see them much later
Oct 12 15:31:18 <DawnFoster> I use visual notifications though - I hate having things beeping at me all day :)
Oct 12 15:31:48 <qgil> DawnFoster: I'm also well trained to avoid anything interrupting me before I send the email I'm writing  :)
Oct 12 15:32:24 <DawnFoster> the Art of Ignoring People is an important community management trait
Oct 12 15:33:00 <qgil> dneary: "independent contributors" is much clearer than "community" in quotes, then
Oct 12 15:33:48 <dneary> qgil, Just for information: I was making a statement. Having fairly major things like this mentioned only in meeting agendas, meeting minutes and during real-time meetings is not what I would call communicating about them
Oct 12 15:34:09 <dneary> I'm in some sense giving you an opportunity to head off community concerns which might otherwise have arisen later
Oct 12 15:34:20 <qgil> dneary: but I hope you agree that we can't assume something is being downgraded just because a Nokia/Intel dude is being substituted by a non-Intel/Nokia dude  :)
Oct 12 15:35:03 <dneary> qgil, I did discuss this with Stskeeps. And again, as I said in the email, there are 2 things here: the thing, and what the thing looks like
Oct 12 15:35:20 <dneary> As a marketing dude, you surely appreciate that there is a difference
Oct 12 15:36:16 <qgil> dneary: I do, even as a community member  ;)  - and I don't know why Harri/Carsten couldn't discuss this before in a mailing list (meego-pm?) without needing direct intervention from the TSG
Oct 12 15:36:29 <qgil> dneary: then again, the TSG meetings is where nominations happen atm
Oct 12 15:36:44 <dneary> qgil, And you may not have noticed if you read quickly, but I won't be able to attend the TSG tomorrow, so won't be able to ask during the meeting
Oct 12 15:36:59 <qgil> dneary: I read too fast, then  ;)
Oct 12 15:37:17 <dneary> This was, in some sense, the point I wanted to make most strongly. The real time meetings are not effective as a means of making things known within the project
Oct 12 15:37:57 <dneary> I mentioned to Dawn that I thought that perhaps the time has come to see if there isn't a better way to co-ordinate efforts
Oct 12 15:38:12 <dneary> some real-time meetings are useful, but too many are not.
Oct 12 15:38:20 <qgil> dneary: this is a point that I agree needs a lot of improving. but TSG members don't feel like following busy mailing lists (they have enough managing their mailboxes without lists)
Oct 12 15:39:34 <qgil> dneary: the natural evolution is to leave more decisions out of the TSG (it's happening, slowly) and maybe the TSG could make more use or non-real-time channels to communicate stuff in the future
Oct 12 15:40:38 <qgil> meego-pm can be a useful tool for this, having the Program Office more voice on daily decisions, and leaving the TSG for more strategic or escalation stuff
Oct 12 15:40:40 <dneary> qgil, In this particular situation, I would have expected Harri to send a mail proposing the change to meego-dev, explain the reasoning & propose submitting it for approval to the TSG
Oct 12 15:40:48 <qgil> anyway, I need to write this post for meego.com :)
Oct 12 15:40:59 <dneary> qgil, Please don't let me distract you :)
Oct 12 15:42:16 <qgil> DawnFoster and me are mastering this sharing of responsibilities, she is doing a great job organizing the community collaboration channels and processes and she is the one that is spending more brain/time helping the TSG and the MeeGo meritocracy consolidation
Oct 12 15:44:28 <DawnFoster> we're still refining the processes. The benefit of regular meetings is that they act as a forcing function to make sure we are making progress.
Oct 12 15:44:37 <DawnFoster> I still think we need both
Oct 12 15:45:11 <DawnFoster> we do need to get better about discussing things on the mailing list before the decision happens in the TSG
Oct 12 15:45:28 <DawnFoster> qgil & I push for this, but it doesn't always happen
Oct 12 15:45:33 <DawnFoster> we're slowly getting there
Oct 12 17:05:13 <CosmoHill> hey auke
Oct 12 17:31:43 * CosmoHill glares at dawn for shooting down his poll
Oct 12 17:43:31 <niala> hello, is there any '@meego devel'    in  .ks file, like  '@MeeGo Core'
Oct 12 17:44:37 <niala> or @meego devel, or @devel, or @Development Tools    ?
Oct 12 23:40:26 <CosmoHill> lbt: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=1671
Oct 12 23:40:35 <CosmoHill> at the bottom is something for you to deal with
Oct 12 23:40:51 <CosmoHill> cyas
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 13 02:59:57 2010