**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 31 02:59:58 2010
Oct 31 03:00:19 <icesword> does N 8 support meego?
Oct 31 03:00:41 <lcuk> does the n8 work the same as the n900?
Oct 31 03:01:34 <icesword> meego rocks, android sucker
Oct 31 03:02:18 <icesword> N8 symbian 3
Oct 31 03:02:55 <lcuk> would be nice
Oct 31 03:03:13 <lcuk> meego has seen firstlight on a number of odd devices already
Oct 31 03:03:15 <icesword> cpu and memory both are good
Oct 31 03:03:24 <lcuk> in theory nothing prevents one of hte other nokia devices
Oct 31 03:03:43 <lcuk> :)
Oct 31 03:04:14 <icesword> how about 5230? lol
Oct 31 03:05:10 <lcuk> chances are, it will be bootable on pretty much the same subset of devices core linux can boot on one day
Oct 31 03:05:17 <icesword> so meego is efficiency? isn't it?
Oct 31 03:05:27 <lcuk> how many weeks a bootup takes or whether you can enter a gui is another matter
Oct 31 03:06:02 <lcuk> idk, what is it to you?
Oct 31 03:06:31 <icesword> don't know
Oct 31 03:07:22 <lcuk> what would you like it to be?
Oct 31 03:07:34 <icesword> only thing I'm not satisfied with
Oct 31 03:08:43 <icesword> is why can't nokia create a map like google,s
Oct 31 03:09:09 <Termana> Halt. This is the bullshit police.
Oct 31 03:09:27 <lcuk> icesword, meh, there are many places google still cannot map
Oct 31 03:09:28 <Termana> Firstly, the N8 "cpu and memory both are good". What a crock.
Oct 31 03:09:45 <icesword> and google's cloud information so nice
Oct 31 03:09:54 <Termana> It has an ARM11 (armv6) CPU that runs at 434MHz and has 128mb of RAM
Oct 31 03:10:05 <lcuk> icesword, cloud is in many places
Oct 31 03:10:08 <lcuk> but its not everywhere
Oct 31 03:10:11 <Termana> even if you COULD boot linux on that thing, good luck running MeeGo.
Oct 31 03:10:32 <lcuk> Termana, meegos *only* issue atm is hard dep on powervr
Oct 31 03:10:50 <wmarone> Termana: I've run linux on worse :) granted, not on battery and not with a GUI...
Oct 31 03:10:54 <lcuk> maemo + telescope highlights its perfectly good, as does mer and some kind of mermantle :P
Oct 31 03:11:48 <Termana> Fact: MeeGo will not run on the N8 and definitely not a 5230.
Oct 31 03:11:50 <Termana> Status: [  ] Untold [ X ] Told
Oct 31 03:12:10 <wmarone> that's some 4chan quality commentary there, Termana ;)
Oct 31 03:12:10 <lcuk> Termana, hm
Oct 31 03:12:18 <Termana> Now sit down, before I have to make some arrests
Oct 31 03:12:23 <Termana> wmarone, :p
Oct 31 03:12:25 <lcuk> 5230 i might agree with
Oct 31 03:12:39 <icesword> ok N8 5230 suckers
Oct 31 03:13:38 <Termana> lcuk, who is REALLY going to put in any effort to get the linux kernel to boot on the N8?... And then do the rest of the MeeGo porting work on top of that. And then realise that everything will be incompatible since everything is being compiled for armv7
Oct 31 03:13:59 <lcuk> Termana, i said in theory
Oct 31 03:14:03 <icesword> N8 you can't change batterys? you know
Oct 31 03:14:12 <lcuk> there is a proto n8x0 port somewhere
Oct 31 03:14:18 <lcuk> and as the number of devices grows
Oct 31 03:14:29 <lcuk> such support for stranger and stranger hw will grow
Oct 31 03:14:42 <lcuk> see x86 regular for example :P
Oct 31 03:14:52 <wmarone> n8's battery can be changed, you just need a screwdriver :)
Oct 31 03:14:58 <icesword> so N8 isn't quite good
Oct 31 03:15:27 <Termana> You would have to maintain your own repository of the surrounds repo compiled for armv6 and, quite frankly, forget about closed apps or Harmattan-compiled apps
Oct 31 03:15:48 <wmarone> sure
Oct 31 03:15:55 <lcuk> Termana, why so serious, cant we have a theoretical discussion
Oct 31 03:16:00 <wmarone> I'm forgetting about closed apps whenever I disable the DRM on my N???
Oct 31 03:16:36 <icesword> termana is a leader
Oct 31 03:17:06 <icesword> we have to shut up
Oct 31 03:17:38 <lcuk> if we can have meego on n8x0
Oct 31 03:17:55 <lcuk> it should be feasible elsewhere
Oct 31 03:18:29 <icesword> even it runs, it won't perform well
Oct 31 03:19:27 <lcuk> icesword, depends what you run
Oct 31 03:20:23 <lcuk> if its enough to let you say hi to friends or to use maps or something, its doing it job
Oct 31 03:20:39 <lcuk> but, sure you may not be able to run the latest game on it
Oct 31 03:21:02 <lcuk> a remote control for your media centre or something :)
Oct 31 03:21:28 <icesword> ok, i won't stare at it all day without doing anything, right. ps it s not good-looking
Oct 31 03:21:47 <lcuk> whats not?
Oct 31 03:21:53 <Termana> lcuk, icesword - sorry I didn't mean to seem so serious and/or angry :p
Oct 31 03:22:30 <icesword> multi-tasking,no name
Oct 31 03:23:11 <icesword> bbl
Oct 31 03:25:03 <Termana> lcuk, also, I didn't say you couldn't theorise. I was weighing in the practical side of the argument.
Oct 31 03:25:16 <lcuk> Termana, if its too heavy theres a problem
Oct 31 03:25:49 <lcuk> thats not the linux way
Oct 31 03:25:51 <Termana> lcuk, the practical side of the argument or MeeGo? :p
Oct 31 03:26:11 <lcuk> Termana, which was the first usable gui linux you had?
Oct 31 03:26:15 <lcuk> on handheld
Oct 31 03:26:32 <Termana> lcuk, my N810.
Oct 31 03:26:45 <lcuk> same here
Oct 31 03:26:47 <lcuk> :)
Oct 31 03:26:57 <lcuk> that has less power than the n8?
Oct 31 03:27:08 <lcuk> but yet ran all the things it did
Oct 31 03:27:15 <lcuk> at a higher resolution
Oct 31 03:27:39 <Termana> lcuk, a bit more power actually, but the argument still holds true.
Oct 31 03:28:54 <lcuk> lower the resolution as much as it does (theres 2/3 pixels on n8 as there was on n8x0)
Oct 31 03:28:59 <Termana> lcuk, the fact is, MeeGo is heavy.
Oct 31 03:28:59 <Termana> The UXs have been designed to run on beefy hardware.
Oct 31 03:29:22 <Termana> GLESv2 (not powervr specific btw, it's just the only one that has appropriate drivers at the moment)
Oct 31 03:29:27 <Termana> or GL
Oct 31 03:29:47 <lcuk> i am quite certain the n8 has practical gl support
Oct 31 03:29:57 <lcuk> it can house qt 4.7 remember :)
Oct 31 03:30:07 <Termana> Minimum of armv7 for default compiles, including applications for ARM. Minimum of SSSE3 on x86
Oct 31 03:30:44 <Termana> MeeGo has a lot of unnecessary things. But that is the way it's done. Do I like it? Not particularly. But it's something that has to be lived with at the moment.
Oct 31 03:30:50 <lcuk> so port libmeegotouch to it and run the meego apps ontop is possible also
Oct 31 03:32:00 <Termana> lcuk, quite frankly, even if the N8 did support GLESv2, it's impractical to make it work in a Linux/X11 environment.
Oct 31 03:32:24 <wmarone> then how on earth did Linux ever run on 486es?
Oct 31 03:32:56 <lcuk> ++
Oct 31 03:33:01 <Termana> lcuk, people have been trying to reverse engineer powervr stuff in an open source manner for quite a few years now. The last I checked, no practical progress.
Oct 31 03:33:15 <bef0rd> plain linux will work but MeeGo is kinda heavy as Termana said
Oct 31 03:33:17 <Termana> wmarone, who said this was about general linux. This is about specifically MeeGo
Oct 31 03:33:17 <lcuk> Termana, does everything require powervr?
Oct 31 03:33:30 <bef0rd> plain linux works almost on everything :P
Oct 31 03:33:49 <wmarone> \
Oct 31 03:34:02 <lcuk> meego toaster ux coming soon :P
Oct 31 03:34:12 <lcuk> "would anyone like any toast?"
Oct 31 03:34:15 <sofar> yes!
Oct 31 03:34:26 <sofar> with butter pls
Oct 31 03:34:35 <Termana> lcuk, who said anything required powervr. I said its a requirement to have GLESv2. Unless you go the software rendering route. But on old hardware it isn't going to go nice.
Oct 31 03:34:43 <npm> there's a burnt image of a penguin on my toast!
Oct 31 03:34:55 <lcuk> Termana, that is specifically where lower resolution helps
Oct 31 03:35:12 <lcuk> trying to render current high res screens in cpu bound is sluggish
Oct 31 03:35:37 <lcuk> but i know and have confirmable first hand knowledge of the strength of lowering the resolution
Oct 31 03:35:55 <lcuk> and that just how much of a difference it can make.
Oct 31 03:36:06 <lcuk> it may never be perfect on older devices
Oct 31 03:36:20 <lcuk> but damn, that does not mean people cannot have it on them for other tasks
Oct 31 03:38:00 <Termana> lcuk, but the problem still exists - it is obviously too heavy for it.
Oct 31 03:38:01 <Termana> lcuk, you could use a much less resource hungry distro on the device instead and it would be a smoother experience.
Oct 31 03:38:34 <lcuk> Termana, "qt: code once, deploy anywhere" is quite a powerful target.
Oct 31 03:39:08 <lcuk> just like my liqbase stuff, i wrote this on n810: http://liqbase.net/liq.20091016_041607.liqremote.scr.png
Oct 31 03:39:15 <lcuk> i just used it tonight whilst watching something
Oct 31 03:39:19 <lcuk> it runs on things
Oct 31 03:39:20 <lcuk> :)
Oct 31 03:39:46 <lcuk> when people start writing meego apps, some of them will be heavy on lower hardware
Oct 31 03:39:52 <lcuk> but other stuff will be light and simple
Oct 31 03:39:58 <lcuk> its good if we have a path
Oct 31 03:40:02 <lcuk> that lets them run too
Oct 31 03:44:16 <Termana> lcuk, but I think we've come full circle. The application SDK is set up to compile for armv7 and x86 and will link in libmeegotouch by default. What incentive is there for developers to make the sure their (closed) apps will run on older devices. If someone puts in the effort and recompiles the whole of Surrounds that will be a good start. But I'm not sure many people want to do that.
Oct 31 03:44:41 <lcuk> Termana, hrm
Oct 31 03:44:52 <lcuk> the application framework has not done its job then :P
Oct 31 03:45:09 <lcuk> it is the meegotouch libraries purpose to host a compliant application?
Oct 31 03:46:11 <lcuk> if the application listens to all the practical events and signals coming from the touch framework
Oct 31 03:46:38 <lcuk> and adheres to blanking signals and the like
Oct 31 03:46:44 <Termana> lcuk, I honestly couldn't tell you exactly what libmeegotouch does. I do know it relies on GLESv2 by default, but it can be turned off to use for software rendering.
Oct 31 03:47:01 <lcuk> :)
Oct 31 03:47:39 <lcuk> Termana, since it looks like most of the repositories will be / are sat ontop of obs
Oct 31 03:47:45 <lcuk> the arch problem is less so
Oct 31 03:47:58 <lcuk> initially, Mer was building debs on n8x0 using obs
Oct 31 03:48:11 <lcuk> i find it hard to believe its more than a twiddle to get the meego obs doing the same
Oct 31 03:48:35 <lcuk> (maybe not the deb bit, but the target arch is entirely feasible)
Oct 31 03:49:34 <Termana> lcuk, just something of interest as well - you can't technically call what you would be doing as MeeGo. Since the MeeGo compliance says you need GL or GLESv2. But that's a rather minor thing.
Oct 31 03:50:33 <lcuk> Termana, so actively building every single public meego.com application using the publicaly available meego.com .ks file would not be meego?
Oct 31 03:50:49 <lcuk> and officially sancioned meego.com sources
Oct 31 03:51:04 <Termana> lcuk, I didn't say it wouldn't be MeeGo. I just said you couldn't call it that
Oct 31 03:51:20 <lcuk> Termana, what if it was on repo.meego.com? :)
Oct 31 03:51:22 <Termana> lcuk, don't shoot me :p I'm just telling you what the compliance spec says! :p
Oct 31 03:52:15 <Termana> lcuk, if it's on repo.meego.com then it would be assumed you have asked for a exception from that part of the compliance spec
Oct 31 03:52:32 <Termana> an exemption *
Oct 31 03:52:47 <lcuk> i can see it if its expected to run games
Oct 31 03:53:19 <lcuk> thats bleugh
Oct 31 03:53:29 <lcuk> on that wonderful note, i will go to bed
Oct 31 03:53:36 <lcuk> its far too late for me
Oct 31 03:53:40 <Termana> lcuk, :P good night
Oct 31 03:53:45 <lcuk> gnite Termana \o
Oct 31 04:02:45 <boltR> does anyone know where i can find documentation for the Mx UI toolkit for loading CSS files?
Oct 31 04:02:52 <boltR> into Mx.Style
Oct 31 05:19:16 <kismeter> hello all, I'm new in meego. would anybody know how to compile the meego source code?thx
Oct 31 05:19:51 <icesword> platform?
Oct 31 05:20:28 <kismeter> yes
Oct 31 05:35:59 <boltR> does anyone know how to apply css to Moblin UI?
Oct 31 06:27:26 <ObKo> Hello, does anybody have info about bug #5616 - http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5616?
Oct 31 06:27:29 <_MeeGoBot_> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5616 nor, Undecided, 1.0.80.15, fathi.boudra, ASSI, Certain fonts are garbled
Oct 31 07:46:13 <SpinachHead> will meego have gtk support?
Oct 31 07:46:41 <Stskeeps> it's there but part of meego api so may technically disappear at any time
Oct 31 07:46:52 <Stskeeps> and vendors aren't obligated to provide it on devices
Oct 31 07:49:20 <tmzt> part of?
Oct 31 07:49:36 <Stskeeps> not part of
Oct 31 07:49:57 <tmzt> wonder if I should try to provide an image of meego for running under android
Oct 31 07:50:03 <tmzt> mostly to test ofono proxy
Oct 31 07:52:51 <dm8tbr> as long as you ship your own libc that should work I guess
Oct 31 07:53:08 <dm8tbr> I've seen android bionic and µclibc userspace coexist
Oct 31 12:46:37 <fabo_> anaZ: please, could you sync sdk repo?
Oct 31 13:28:21 <cih> ciao
Oct 31 13:29:01 <cih> !list;
Oct 31 14:07:16 <pupnik_> http://i.imgur.com/50MDa.jpg  << N810 sized phones could take 2x 1500mAh batteries for hot-swap capability.
Oct 31 14:10:38 <leinir> Hmmmm... Interesting :)
Oct 31 14:10:52 <Bostik> well, if you're willing to remove all the chipsets parts and components the extra battery space takes up
Oct 31 14:11:37 <juk> so it is suitable for n900
Oct 31 14:11:40 <juk> ?
Oct 31 14:12:00 <pupnik_> manufacturers are seriously screwing up with these tiny batteries
Oct 31 14:12:26 <juk> pupnik_: why, what's wrong with 'em
Oct 31 14:12:32 <pupnik_> too small
Oct 31 14:12:46 <pupnik_> Bostik: i'll show you pics of phones using much more of the back for battery than either n810 or n900
Oct 31 14:13:54 <juk> pupnik_: but you can have two, in case one gets disgarged
Oct 31 14:14:30 <leinir> Well yes, and then you have to turn the thing off...
Oct 31 14:14:51 <leinir> And no, with the new designs from e.g. Nokia, replacing the battery takes a torx driver ;)
Oct 31 14:14:54 <juk> drained i meant
Oct 31 14:15:16 <leinir> (which i kinda think is neat, that you can still do it, just makes it inconvenient for the use case you present ;) )
Oct 31 14:15:20 <CosmoHill> leinir: you mean like apple's stuff where the batteries aren't user replaceable?
Oct 31 14:15:36 <leinir> CosmoHill: That's something else entirely yeah, that's just... meh ;)
Oct 31 14:15:48 <leinir> At least with the new Nokia designs, you can actually get to it :)
Oct 31 14:16:05 <CosmoHill> I like that on my old mac I can put the laptop to sleep and swap the batteries
Oct 31 14:16:27 <leinir> Hehe, yes, that's pretty nifty :)
Oct 31 14:16:50 <CosmoHill> auke: poke
Oct 31 14:17:05 <lcuk> so are we calling for device designs with batteries and peripherals which are connected/disconnected like a banana ammo clip on a big gun?
Oct 31 14:17:27 <lcuk> keep spares on your utility belt and just swap them in hero style
Oct 31 14:17:42 <leinir> lcuk: Totally! Bat-belt! ;)
Oct 31 14:17:45 <RST38h> yes,and add a powerful laser to that
Oct 31 14:18:05 <pupnik_> lcuk: yes that would rule
Oct 31 14:18:06 <lcuk> RST38h, o_O laser sight for taking "perfect" pictures
Oct 31 14:18:09 <CosmoHill> lcuk: magazie style batteries
Oct 31 14:18:30 <lcuk> pump action MMC
Oct 31 14:18:47 <RST38h> Well you do want a lower power laser there as well
Oct 31 14:18:48 <pupnik_> make 1/2 the back a snap-on battery, and the other half a modular camera
Oct 31 14:19:02 <CosmoHill> Stskeeps: would love that, he can swap out his N900s for testing by standing back and firing
Oct 31 14:19:11 <lcuk> pupnik_, if these things take up 1/2 space what about the new components
Oct 31 14:19:26 <lcuk> just have the modules on lego bricks
Oct 31 14:19:32 <CosmoHill> pupnik_: http://black-flag.co.uk/files/k800i-thrown2.jpg like that?
Oct 31 14:19:33 <lcuk> and let you layout them as you see fit
Oct 31 14:19:38 <RST38h> Well To light up the target and create path through the air for the more powerful beam
Oct 31 14:19:59 <lcuk> RST38h, a sounding laser?
Oct 31 14:20:31 <pupnik_> heh
Oct 31 14:20:40 <CosmoHill> I miss my k800i now
Oct 31 14:25:26 <sunder> hi,...did anyone stumbled upon the 'syslinux' not found error while running mic-image creator... i m searching the meego repositories and till now can't find syslinux lackage there..
Oct 31 14:46:11 <summy> hello
Oct 31 14:46:19 <CosmoHill> hi
Oct 31 14:46:42 <summy> i hame one stupid question, if i setup the OTS, how many time do i need?
Oct 31 14:47:07 <CosmoHill> I don't understand the question
Oct 31 14:47:23 <summy> i am a new person in the meego platform, i want to try to set up the OTS systerm
Oct 31 14:47:32 <CosmoHill> OTS?
Oct 31 14:47:45 <summy> yes, open test service
Oct 31 14:48:20 <CosmoHill> ah, I've not used that
Oct 31 14:48:49 <summy> ok, still thanks, anyone know about that?
Oct 31 14:49:05 <CosmoHill> someone somewhere should :)
Oct 31 14:49:57 <summy> who can give me a big help?
Oct 31 14:50:38 <CosmoHill> you could try on the forums and mailing list to check to see if someone else has done this
Oct 31 14:52:43 <summy> ok, i will see,
Oct 31 14:53:07 <summy> thanks CosmoHill.
Oct 31 15:05:21 <thomas___> hello. Can I install mp3 and divx support on Meego 1.1?
Oct 31 15:05:40 <CosmoHill> thomas___: check the forums
Oct 31 15:05:52 <niala> hello, CosmoHill
Oct 31 15:05:57 <CosmoHill> salut niala
Oct 31 15:06:15 <CosmoHill> thomas___: if you find an answer let me know and I'll add it to the FAQ
Oct 31 15:06:48 <niala> mp3 need compil gstreamer & gstreamer-plugin
Oct 31 15:07:41 <niala> plugin plugin good, bad, ugly,ffmpeg
Oct 31 15:08:25 <niala> and don't forget --prefix=/usr  when you ./configure
Oct 31 15:09:02 <CosmoHill> the good, the bad and the ugly....and ffmpeg
Oct 31 15:09:13 <Frode_Haugsgjerd> hi, the download page for the Nokia N900 flasher tool is down, does anyone have a mirror of it?
Oct 31 15:09:15 <niala> 1 or 2 hour on atom l lol
Oct 31 15:09:18 <dm8tbr> noone set up an evil repository with rpms yet?
Oct 31 15:09:25 <CosmoHill> Frode_Haugsgjerd: can you send me the link?
Oct 31 15:09:50 <Frode_Haugsgjerd> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php
Oct 31 15:10:34 <thomas___> I found a script at the forum and a repository, but is only for version 1.0 not for 1.1
Oct 31 15:10:54 <CosmoHill> that may work
Oct 31 15:11:00 <CosmoHill> I don't see there being to much difference
Oct 31 15:11:35 <CosmoHill> Frode_Haugsgjerd: okay looks like you're going to have to wait a bit
Oct 31 15:11:42 <niala> thomas___: better yo go in http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/src/
Oct 31 15:12:05 * CosmoHill gives niala a cookie for dealing with people then goes away
Oct 31 15:12:18 <Frode_Haugsgjerd> CosmoHill, hmm, i have a flasher binary on my device, is it possible to do it locally?
Oct 31 15:12:43 <CosmoHill> that sounds like it can only end badly
Oct 31 15:13:36 <niala> CosmoHill: you go?
Oct 31 15:13:48 <CosmoHill> I'm still here but I'm doing work
Oct 31 15:13:58 <CosmoHill> I don't want to break my flow
Oct 31 15:14:24 <niala> right musi on headphones and work
Oct 31 15:14:31 <niala> c
Oct 31 15:14:40 <CosmoHill> pick a letter
Oct 31 15:14:55 <eluttine> summy: did you mean http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/QA-tools/OTS
Oct 31 15:15:01 * niala going crazy with c++ and qt
Oct 31 15:15:16 <thomas___> ok, in v1.1 the software is newer, but is the version 1.0 stable to use it on a netbook?
Oct 31 15:15:31 <CosmoHill> thomas___: v1.1 is stable
Oct 31 15:15:42 <eluttine> summy: check meego-qa-tools channel, you can get help from there
Oct 31 15:15:52 <CosmoHill> niala: subwoofer on, amp on, cd in, go go go
Oct 31 15:16:08 <thomas___> ok, thanks for your help
Oct 31 15:17:02 <niala> thomas___:  since 3 day I see no difference. Just facebook account from status-panel has disappeared
Oct 31 15:17:42 <niala> oh and qt4.7  and meegotouch integrated
Oct 31 15:18:16 * niala I will stop to speak english I don't understand myself :)
Oct 31 15:18:57 <summy> thomas, thanks ,i will see
Oct 31 15:19:19 <summy> sorry, eluttine, i will see, thanks for you help
Oct 31 15:21:49 <summy> hi eluttine, another question, can the ots can be used very well?
Oct 31 15:22:11 <thomas___> thanks niala. I will try v1.0.
Oct 31 15:22:52 <eluttine> summy, yes it can be used quite nicely for automated testing
Oct 31 15:23:22 <niala_sofa-tv> thomas___: get 1.1 qt is very important in meego
Oct 31 15:24:02 <thomas___> thanks niala
Oct 31 15:24:08 <thomas___> try 1.1
Oct 31 15:24:11 <summy> it can be used for testing for the kernel and middleware for automating testing?
Oct 31 15:26:23 <eluttine> also for those, but depends lot of the testcase. e.g. it can run min testcases
Oct 31 15:31:09 <CosmoHill> niala_sofa-tv: what you watching?
Oct 31 15:31:38 <niala_sofa-tv> camping2 CosmoHill a stupid comedy
Oct 31 15:31:55 <niala_sofa-tv> french people on hollyday
Oct 31 15:32:06 <CosmoHill> holiday*
Oct 31 15:32:11 <niala_sofa-tv> ty
Oct 31 15:32:35 <niala_sofa-tv> holly mean saint
Oct 31 15:33:05 <CosmoHill> Holly can be a girl's name, it's also a prickly type of bush
Oct 31 15:33:15 <niala_sofa-tv> ahhh ty
Oct 31 15:33:43 <pupnik_> wow look how big this keyboard is  -- Samsung Epic  http://www.brighthand.com/assets/14519.jpg
Oct 31 15:34:08 <CosmoHill> pupnik_: my god, that looks useable
Oct 31 15:34:42 * CosmoHill looks at the fingers then the keyboard again
Oct 31 15:34:46 <CosmoHill> oh second thoughts...
Oct 31 15:46:38 <pupnik_> CosmoHill: how did they get a slider mechanism to open that far??
Oct 31 15:47:17 <CosmoHill> maybe if he moves his pinky the keyboard falls off
Oct 31 15:47:28 <pupnik_> n900 doen to 360 euro in germany...
Oct 31 15:47:39 <pupnik_> awesome. that's less than i paid for the 770
Oct 31 15:47:59 <CosmoHill> that's still 260 € more than I'd like to pay
Oct 31 15:48:15 <CosmoHill> in fact 100 € is still a lot
Oct 31 15:48:31 <ruskie> I payed 620 eur for my n900 ;)
Oct 31 15:49:00 <CosmoHill> last thought I bought was £45 IIRC
Oct 31 15:49:10 <CosmoHill> s/thought/phone/
Oct 31 15:49:11 <infobot> CosmoHill meant: last phone I bought was £45 IIRC
Oct 31 15:49:22 <ruskie> but then I wanted it rather fast... not wait for any of the operators to start offering it
Oct 31 15:49:39 <ruskie> and frankly it was worth it
Oct 31 15:50:17 <CosmoHill> I'd have to buy the whole phone since I'm not on contract
Oct 31 15:51:08 <ruskie> the diff for me was I think less than 50 eur for my basic package
Oct 31 15:51:41 <CosmoHill> my dad gets a new phone every year or so and I got his old two :)
Oct 31 15:51:55 <CosmoHill> mostly because he broke them and I fixed them after he got a replacement
Oct 31 15:52:47 <pupnik_> 100 euro will get you a 320x200-400x240 display cellphone in germany
Oct 31 15:53:34 <CosmoHill> my friend got a LG Cookie for £50
Oct 31 15:55:09 <CosmoHill> scrolling was a pain
Oct 31 15:56:47 <pupnik_> i don't see anything that could compete with a N900 for under 400 - even imagining one could get meego running on it
Oct 31 15:57:23 <CosmoHill> my experience of touch screens is limited to LG cookies and iPhones
Oct 31 15:57:37 <RST38h> There is nothing above 400 either
Oct 31 15:57:44 <lcuk> COOKIES
Oct 31 15:57:50 <lcuk> om nom nom nom
Oct 31 15:57:54 <pupnik_> want to see some beautifully dense packing?  LG Mini GD880 854x480 display for .. 160 euro??
Oct 31 15:58:13 <RST38h> Isn't that "bisquits", lcuk? =)
Oct 31 15:58:14 <CosmoHill> I think I'll stick with my candy bar phone
Oct 31 15:58:26 <CosmoHill> RST38h: 1. biscuits
Oct 31 15:58:30 <CosmoHill> 2. Cookies are awesome
Oct 31 15:58:35 <RST38h> Ah right
Oct 31 15:58:37 <lcuk> c is for cookie
Oct 31 15:58:41 <lcuk> thats good enough for me
Oct 31 15:59:06 <RST38h> pupnik: Android actually comes pretty close. But nounified messaging there.
Oct 31 15:59:19 <CosmoHill> lcuk: unless it's used to describe someone who unplugs a computer after 1 week of solid work
Oct 31 15:59:37 <RST38h> (besides, the base OS appears to suck, but I fully understand that not everyone cares about it
Oct 31 16:00:49 <CosmoHill> it would be nice having a Meego phone and a meego netbook
Oct 31 16:00:56 <CosmoHill> sort of like a matching set
Oct 31 16:01:37 <ruskie> CosmoHill, look at touchbook or smartbook ;)
Oct 31 16:01:53 <lcuk> CosmoHill, watching tv on your meego tv and driving with your meego car is also on the list
Oct 31 16:02:01 <lcuk> meego tv remote control :)
Oct 31 16:03:03 <RST38h> Don't forget flying a meego airplane orsomething
Oct 31 16:03:27 <lcuk> RST38h, is there an airside ux?
Oct 31 16:03:57 <lcuk> i know some folks o nthe mailing list are laughing about military ux
Oct 31 16:04:12 <lcuk> but i never get the army, how on earth do they manage to find all their tanks and stuff
Oct 31 16:04:24 <RST38h> No, but I can see embedded Atom SoCs in avionics
Oct 31 16:04:38 <RST38h> Probably the same SoCs that are planned for automotive use
Oct 31 16:04:53 <lcuk> once you camouflage them it gets difficult
Oct 31 16:05:51 <pupnik_> i'd love meego on that LG Mini GD880... 180 euro without branding or lock
Oct 31 16:05:56 <pupnik_> 854x480
Oct 31 16:06:07 <RST38h> They find motorized equipment by oily traces =)
Oct 31 16:06:58 <lcuk> pupnik_, but what cpu and system components has it got
Oct 31 16:07:57 <pupnik_> hehe
Oct 31 16:08:14 <pupnik_> it has a radio, display and audio device
Oct 31 16:09:41 <CosmoHill> lcuk: the carPC would cost more than the car
Oct 31 16:09:50 <lcuk> hmm CosmoHill
Oct 31 16:09:59 <lcuk> why do you say that
Oct 31 16:10:10 <CosmoHill> my car is insured for £400 IIRC
Oct 31 16:10:51 <ruskie> so?
Oct 31 16:10:55 <lcuk> is that still classified as a car?
Oct 31 16:11:02 <CosmoHill> heeeyyy
Oct 31 16:11:24 <ruskie> I think I pay ~200eur yearly for it
Oct 31 16:11:29 <lcuk> CosmoHill, its a bit unusual insuring a matchbox car :P
Oct 31 16:11:32 <CosmoHill> ruskie: you rent?
Oct 31 16:11:35 <ruskie> no
Oct 31 16:11:36 <ruskie> own
Oct 31 16:11:53 <CosmoHill> lcuk: for some weird reason fully comp is cheaper than TFT
Oct 31 16:12:19 <lcuk> CosmoHill, who is main driver tho? or is this all your own policy
Oct 31 16:12:26 <CosmoHill> dad is
Oct 31 16:12:39 <CosmoHill> the car insurance costs more
Oct 31 16:12:42 <lcuk> then, yes thats understandable
Oct 31 16:12:50 <CosmoHill> but we'd get £400 - excess if it's written off
Oct 31 16:13:15 <lcuk> CosmoHill, the insurance for a car such as yours is less for yourself
Oct 31 16:13:19 <lcuk> and more for other drivers
Oct 31 16:13:22 <ruskie> we'd either get for repair... if it's marked as total ~1000eur
Oct 31 16:13:33 <CosmoHill> when it runs out we're moving it over to my own name
Oct 31 16:14:10 <ruskie> of coruse the car has 10+ years
Oct 31 16:14:15 <lcuk> pupnik_, i was asking what spec cpu it has
Oct 31 16:14:23 <sfriqueu> helo folks
Oct 31 16:14:29 <ruskie> anyway afk
Oct 31 16:14:30 <pupnik_> lcuk: still looking for that
Oct 31 16:14:32 <lcuk> ahh k
Oct 31 16:14:36 <lcuk> thought you had specs around
Oct 31 16:14:39 <sfriqueu> i just tested meego hahaha
Oct 31 16:14:57 <sfriqueu> my microsd is so slow.. can even play with it =/
Oct 31 16:15:02 <lcuk> is that a mad scientist laugh?
Oct 31 16:15:23 <CosmoHill> pupnik_: can I have a link
Oct 31 16:15:25 <lcuk> sfriqueu, first boot is slower than other times
Oct 31 16:15:45 <piru2> hey
Oct 31 16:16:02 <sfriqueu> even in N900 ?
Oct 31 16:16:10 <sfriqueu> CosmoHill, why that so ?
Oct 31 16:16:13 <lcuk> sfriqueu, especially in n900
Oct 31 16:16:20 <lcuk> hi Alison_Chaiken
Oct 31 16:16:24 <CosmoHill> hello
Oct 31 16:16:26 <sfriqueu> luck why that ?
Oct 31 16:17:01 <lcuk> sfriqueu, many technical reasons, but essentially boils down to caches and media scanning and stuff from what i hear.
Oct 31 16:17:05 <Alison_Chaiken> Hyvaa huomenta everybody, lcuk.
Oct 31 16:17:09 <lcuk> optimisation of the experience is ongoing
Oct 31 16:17:22 <piru2> in maemo I could do "git clone repo"; cd repo ; "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -D"
Oct 31 16:17:26 <lcuk> heavy optimisation hopefully
Oct 31 16:17:43 <lcuk> piru2, no you couldnt
Oct 31 16:17:57 <sfriqueu> i undersand that is slow cause of my sd card
Oct 31 16:17:59 <lcuk> dpkg-buildpackage was not supported on the maemo device itself :P
Oct 31 16:18:04 * RST38h wonders if someone at Meego Devices management gathers enough courage to kill the Tracker
Oct 31 16:18:09 <piru2> lcuk :)
Oct 31 16:18:10 <sfriqueu> but does not make anysense be slower at first boot
Oct 31 16:18:14 <sfriqueu> but anyway hahah
Oct 31 16:18:20 <piru2> in scratchbox :)
Oct 31 16:18:27 <CosmoHill> it makes perfect sence to be slower first boot
Oct 31 16:18:29 <lcuk> of course piru2, was jesting
Oct 31 16:18:38 <sfriqueu> only if it does caching an stuff
Oct 31 16:18:40 <lcuk> sfriqueu, its gotta organise its bits and shake itself out
Oct 31 16:18:54 <lcuk> RST38h, principle of tracker is right
Oct 31 16:19:14 <sfriqueu> i mean, not the "boot" is slow
Oct 31 16:19:15 <RST38h> lcuk: that is not enough though
Oct 31 16:19:18 <sfriqueu> i am saying
Oct 31 16:19:22 <sfriqueu> when i am using it
Oct 31 16:19:36 <piru2> what is the equivalent in meego-chroot
Oct 31 16:19:37 <lcuk> RST38h, understood
Oct 31 16:19:38 <RST38h> lcuk: it has to actually *work* for the users and not cause them grief
Oct 31 16:19:41 <lcuk> whats the replacement
Oct 31 16:19:45 <piru2> git clone repo
Oct 31 16:19:49 <piru2> cd repo
Oct 31 16:19:59 <piru2> rpmbuild package.spec
Oct 31 16:20:27 <piru2> ~/rpmbuild/SOURCES/package.tar... not found
Oct 31 16:20:42 <sfriqueu> how do i install a packeg in meego ?
Oct 31 16:20:44 <RST38h> lcuk: Well, if I were doing it, I would deprioritize getting metadata
Oct 31 16:20:58 <RST38h> lcuk: I would simply store filenames in the database
Oct 31 16:21:36 <RST38h> lcuk: I would still scan for metadata but in very short bursts, and only when device screen is off
Oct 31 16:22:00 <lcuk> RST38h, :) sounds reasonable in theory
Oct 31 16:22:02 <RST38h> I.e. when I am absolutely sure that the user is NOT using the device
Oct 31 16:22:23 <piru2> *"rpmbuild -ba package.spec"
Oct 31 16:22:43 <RST38h> Would probably also make the camera app produce thumbnails when it makes pictures
Oct 31 16:22:57 <RST38h> As it has the data in memory at that moment
Oct 31 16:23:03 <CosmoHill> RST38h: how about only scanning when it's connected to the charger too?
Oct 31 16:23:21 <RST38h> Cosmo: there is a setting like that in Tracker. Not sure if it ever heeds it.
Oct 31 16:23:30 <CosmoHill> cool
Oct 31 16:24:04 <RST38h> Cosmo: but this may not be very useful, as some people use their device when it is plugged in (on their desk, or in a car)
Oct 31 16:24:32 <RST38h> Cosmo: screen off OR (no user input AND no CPU activity) is a better condition
Oct 31 16:24:32 <lcuk> RST38h, that last bit about thumbs being created in sync with writing the original is deffo something that has been discussed in places
Oct 31 16:24:46 <lcuk> its something that i think should be happening for sure
Oct 31 16:24:51 <RST38h> lcuk: "discussed" is not enough
Oct 31 16:24:55 <lcuk> you have an in memory representation of a large image
Oct 31 16:25:08 <lcuk> during writing it should scale and save thumbnail in process
Oct 31 16:25:17 <RST38h> lcuk: yep
Oct 31 16:25:20 <lcuk> RST38h, it depends on who the discussion is with
Oct 31 16:25:55 <RST38h> lcuk: it may not be elegant from tracker author's point of view, but it will improvecustomer experience (i.e. remove one of the major pissing point)
Oct 31 16:26:09 <RST38h> point
Oct 31 16:26:19 <lcuk> agreed, it also saves cpu
Oct 31 16:26:23 <RST38h> pointS, hell, what is it with these "island" keyboards
Oct 31 16:26:25 <lcuk> no point in reloading and decoding the image
Oct 31 16:26:32 <lcuk> to produce a thumbnail just afterwards
Oct 31 16:26:48 <RST38h> lcuk: CPU isn't usually a problem in N900 (and probably other similar devices). It is memory and disk activity
Oct 31 16:27:01 <lcuk> RST38h, its simply a waste
Oct 31 16:27:13 <RST38h> lcuk: in this case, you are saving on disk activity, a very important point
Oct 31 16:27:30 <RST38h> and you do not need to start up thumbnailer, causing swapping
Oct 31 16:27:54 <lcuk> yup and whatever race conditions may present themselves
Oct 31 16:28:32 <RST38h> and no, unless this is actually implemented and distributed as part of PR, it does not count as something that matters for me
Oct 31 16:28:32 <lcuk> "oh look" says tracker, a new image has been saved, oh its already got a thumbnail, NO-OP :)
Oct 31 16:28:47 <RST38h> We have seen too many "discussions" over the last few years
Oct 31 16:29:25 <CosmoHill> RST38h: take a gun to you next discussion
Oct 31 16:30:14 <RST38h> Cosmo: I have a simpler solution
Oct 31 16:30:47 <RST38h> Cosmo: Of not discussing anything with people who have no ability or desire to act on it
Oct 31 16:31:13 <lcuk> RST38h, how do you know these things arent already on the table?
Oct 31 16:31:17 <CosmoHill> that sounds better, also a lot easier than getting a gun
Oct 31 16:31:27 <RST38h> lcuk: I do not
Oct 31 16:31:55 <RST38h> lcuk: All I care is that the person I am talking too is capable of putting them on the table
Oct 31 16:33:19 <lcuk> well hopefully whatever the current state, some folks have hopefully read this and can ask their own questions and see whether anything can be done
Oct 31 16:33:36 <RST38h> lcuk: it is #meego, not #maemo though
Oct 31 16:33:47 <RST38h> I am sure meego will have its own set of warts
Oct 31 16:34:53 <CosmoHill> warts?
Oct 31 16:35:04 <lcuk> RST38h, warts are everywhere, but thankfully are mostly treatable :P
Oct 31 16:35:17 <lcuk> tho shouldnt ask tonight, since theres a lot of witches around
Oct 31 16:35:30 * lcuk got jacob walking around like a zombie asking for brains earlier
Oct 31 16:35:37 <CosmoHill> awww
Oct 31 16:35:56 <lcuk> tho he still runs away like a girl if i put a mask on
Oct 31 16:39:24 <CosmoHill> you should keep the mask for whenever he does something naughty
Oct 31 16:39:55 <CosmoHill> if he's done something naughty in the day, when you tuck him in at night you should put the mask on before you enter his room
Oct 31 16:40:05 <lcuk> nahhh
Oct 31 16:40:08 <lcuk> that would be evil
Oct 31 16:40:14 <lcuk> i just have to reach for the cupboard
Oct 31 16:40:27 <lcuk> we put it ontop of the chocolate thats in there
Oct 31 16:40:39 <lcuk> surprisingly, he hasnt been helping himself this afternoon
Oct 31 16:40:46 <CosmoHill> lol
Oct 31 16:41:08 <CosmoHill> that would be so funny if he pulls the box down and that falls into his hands
Oct 31 16:41:14 <lcuk> heh
Oct 31 16:43:58 <CosmoHill> better yet, when he opens the door that is in there looking down at him
Oct 31 16:45:28 <CosmoHill> I really should stop thinking of ways to scare children
Oct 31 16:51:44 <CosmoHill> I wonder if meego will run on this: http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_5487.html
Oct 31 16:55:57 <lcuk> CosmoHill, ask yourself a better question: will the remote software from logitech run in meego
Oct 31 18:26:18 <pervert> I have a laptop that i've got IVI 1.1 on, and in ubuntu i can get my resolution normal/etc. but the UI is waaay out of bounds on this monitor. i set up a 10-monitor.conf file with 2048x1536 (native res), but its still way out of bounds
Oct 31 18:27:45 <pervert> is there some other place to change ui scale? the res looks right. the text is crazy tiny
Oct 31 18:33:44 <piratephlox> hi, I'm looking for general information on meego and widgets.
Oct 31 18:33:56 <piratephlox> I write an article about meego, and thats still to cover.
Oct 31 18:34:11 <piratephlox> any hint where to find more infos about widgets?
Oct 31 18:36:50 <the_lord> Hi!
Oct 31 18:37:07 <the_lord> where can I find information about dual booting maemo and meego?
Oct 31 18:41:26 <piratephlox> hi the_lord, just read that as a topic in the wiki-FAQ: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Netbook_FAQ#Can_I_run_MeeGo_in_a_dual_.2F_triple_boot_environment.3F
Oct 31 18:52:40 <piratephlox> btw. why is the no tablet section under devices?
Oct 31 18:53:10 <piratephlox> at meego.com I mean.
Oct 31 18:56:13 <Myrtti> piratephlox: because there isn't anything published for it yet
Oct 31 18:56:26 <Myrtti> (my guess)
Oct 31 18:57:19 <piratephlox> I guess so to, just would like to know, if there is one to be. my problem is that I write an article now, and its published after the conference :/
Oct 31 18:57:35 <smithna> pervert: IVI doesn't seem to run well on high resolutions....
Oct 31 18:58:05 <Myrtti> piratephlox: I wouldn't be sourcing my articles on IRC anyway
Oct 31 18:58:52 <piratephlox> sure. I'd rather look on the net. but wikipedia isn't the best source either. may someone here knows some sources for it.
Oct 31 18:59:26 <piratephlox> still looking for a page that says something about meego and widgets, sofar I couldn't find any.
Oct 31 19:04:32 <pervert> smithna: yeah i can see that. i think maybe its just the skin. or whats a good res to run it in?
Oct 31 19:09:23 <sofar> piratephlox: what do you mean with "widgets"?
Oct 31 19:09:50 <sofar> are you talking about the phone applications or about the graphical toolkit used?
Oct 31 19:10:03 <piratephlox> mobile widgets. all I know about widgets on meego is, that wrt could be used for it.
Oct 31 19:10:22 <piratephlox> html5 widgets kind of I mean.
Oct 31 19:10:50 <piratephlox> I've written already some stuff for qt, now I'd also like to get the widgets stuff covered in my article.
Oct 31 19:11:08 <piratephlox> meego.com isn't really diversifing my knowledge about that, so.
Oct 31 19:11:29 <sofar> the knowledge is in the code
Oct 31 19:12:52 <sofar> wrt code is available - why not check that out?
Oct 31 19:13:27 <piratephlox> heck, I'm not looking for code, I look for some offical page, telling what kind of widgets are in meego.
Oct 31 19:13:29 <CosmoHill> sofar: hey
Oct 31 19:13:35 <CosmoHill> you might be the person to talk to
Oct 31 19:14:09 <RST38h> pirate: Making a guess here: whatever you end up writing, it will not be very informative
Oct 31 19:14:20 <piratephlox> btw. cosmohill: the resolution of the images you pointed to yesterday should be high enough. they are just downscaled for the browser.
Oct 31 19:14:33 <CosmoHill> piratephlox: ah cool
Oct 31 19:14:39 <CosmoHill> I'm about to talk to auke about them
Oct 31 19:14:40 <smithna> pervert: The default res is 856x480 (I think)
Oct 31 19:14:56 <sofar> piratephlox: MeeGo has never used the word "widgets" ever
Oct 31 19:15:03 <sofar> not in any official document
Oct 31 19:15:09 <RST38h> yep
Oct 31 19:15:15 <piratephlox> RST38h well, so far I havent written anything about widgets.
Oct 31 19:15:20 <sofar> so, if you wanna talk about widgets, .... it's not even related to MeeGo
Oct 31 19:15:25 <RST38h> So, at best, you will have to extrapolate from technologies introduced in Maemo5
Oct 31 19:15:30 <piratephlox> so, what is the word they use in meego for this?
Oct 31 19:15:37 * CosmoHill pokes DawnFoster 
Oct 31 19:15:41 <sofar> applications
Oct 31 19:15:48 <RST38h> There is a good chance they will be implemented in Meego the same way as Maemo5
Oct 31 19:17:28 <RST38h> Actually, the first attempt at googling for "meego wrt" brings this page: http://meego.com/developers/meego-api
Oct 31 19:17:40 <RST38h> I doubt you will get much more by asking here
Oct 31 19:18:08 <RST38h> Marked as "upcoming"
Oct 31 19:18:51 <RST38h> Here is documentation on using WRT in Meego SDK 1.1: http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/MeeGo_SDK_with_WRT
Oct 31 19:18:53 <piratephlox> thanks. at least I know know its not worth writing too much about it.
Oct 31 19:19:14 <RST38h> Well, it depends on your scope
Oct 31 19:19:55 <RST38h> In a certain sense, it may not be worth to write anything about Meego at all, as the project's UI has not been completed yet
Oct 31 19:20:35 <RST38h> From the other point of view though, you may want to cover all the main technologies (Qt, QML, QtQuick, WRT, Mobility)
Oct 31 19:20:41 <piratephlox> oh well, for now its 2,5 pages.
Oct 31 19:20:47 <RST38h> And repositories, for a good measure
Oct 31 19:20:59 <RST38h> Double-spaced? :)
Oct 31 19:21:15 <piratephlox> about meego, qt, appstores, history and so on.
Oct 31 19:21:48 <piratephlox> a lot about the 5 device things and a bit speculation about tablets. something about meego phones etc.
Oct 31 19:22:04 <piratephlox> its just a small article for an overview about meego.
Oct 31 19:22:37 <RST38h> Hell, you could just plagiarize a random t.m.o post instead! 8)
Oct 31 19:23:19 <RST38h> Posters wouldn't mind, in fact, they wouldn't be able to tell which exact post you plagiarized.
Oct 31 19:24:34 <piratephlox> application, hm, what you call then an app written with qt?
Oct 31 19:25:29 <piratephlox> at least here in germany there are native apps (qt apps f.e.) and (html5) widgets, as far as it goes about mobile technologies.
Oct 31 19:26:04 <RST38h> application is a program you start and use and quit
Oct 31 19:26:16 <RST38h> widget is something that hangs around your desktop permanently
Oct 31 19:26:43 <RST38h> the language it is coded in does not really affect this division
Oct 31 19:26:45 <rauli> some gui toolkits call the ui elements widgets
Oct 31 19:26:52 <berndhs> RST38h: yeah but you ask 5 professionals, you get 8 definitions of "widget"
Oct 31 19:27:05 <RST38h> ok, let us call the hang-around crap applets
Oct 31 19:27:18 <RST38h> and call UI coding primitives widgets
Oct 31 19:27:42 <RST38h> AmigaOS called them gadgets btw =)
Oct 31 19:27:44 <lcuk> user extensible desktop widget plugins :P
Oct 31 19:28:27 <RST38h> it does notmatter what you call them as long as your readers understand what you mean
Oct 31 19:28:42 <niala_sofa-tv> RST38h: ;) rohh amiga workbench long time ago. Once upon a time was the comodore 64....
Oct 31 19:28:56 <RST38h> C=64 was from the previous age
Oct 31 19:29:02 <RST38h> Amiga was from the future though
Oct 31 19:29:15 <rauli> amiga was a fascist regime anyway, let us not go there
Oct 31 19:29:43 <RST38h> ended up very similarly to how maemo/meego may one day...
Oct 31 19:29:53 <niala_sofa-tv> RST38h: please insert a disk to boot
Oct 31 19:29:55 <RST38h> so, not entirely offtopic
Oct 31 19:30:35 <lcuk> having a disk box full of microsd cards in for different meego boots is "cute"
Oct 31 19:30:58 <lcuk> flipping through your friends disk collection to find that game he got off a magazine cover :D
Oct 31 19:31:11 <RST38h> lcuk: would be cuter to finally fix kexec and make it bootable from a single card, without having to swap them...
Oct 31 19:31:22 <lcuk> RST38h, sure
Oct 31 19:31:30 <lcuk> step by step
Oct 31 19:31:43 <rauli> piratephlox: qt apps have to be built separately for each target platform (phone, netbook, whatever), while the WRE stuff should run as-is on any of them i guess
Oct 31 19:32:12 <piratephlox> i know :)
Oct 31 19:32:30 <piratephlox> with qt you get the performance of c++ on every platform it supports.
Oct 31 19:32:31 * _MeeGoBot_ mumbles something about c++ being evil
Oct 31 19:32:51 <pupnik> based on the meego previews on n900, i'd say you get the shitty performance
Oct 31 19:33:04 <lcuk> c++ is a tool,  it is not evil in itself
Oct 31 19:33:16 <rauli> i was quite surprised how much faster meego feels than ubuntu netbook remix on my samsung nc10
Oct 31 19:33:22 <lcuk> evil developers.  thats a different story altogether :P
Oct 31 19:33:27 <pupnik> lcuk: OO makes people ignore performance
Oct 31 19:33:45 <lcuk> pupnik, you can have OO and performance
Oct 31 19:35:57 <RST38h> pupnik: Not OO
Oct 31 19:36:17 <RST38h> pupnik: Dogmatism makes people ignore real priorities
Oct 31 19:36:39 <dwmw2_BOS> qt's use of C++ isn't that bad
Oct 31 19:36:43 <dwmw2_BOS> it's a sane subset
Oct 31 19:36:49 <dwmw2_BOS> no exceptions, etc.
Oct 31 19:36:55 <rauli> maybe if you start stacking up virtual inheritance, but there certainly is more ways to writing c++ than c, and not all of them are evil
Oct 31 19:36:56 <RST38h> pupnik: OO by itself is fine. It is when you make OO the main goal of your work, you start forgetting about actual goals
Oct 31 19:37:17 <dwmw2_BOS> C++ is a whole bunch of mostly misguided shit bolted onto the side of C
Oct 31 19:37:24 <mechanic> hello everyone just checking in
Oct 31 19:37:29 <RST38h> rauli: you can stack up as many classes as you like. Virtual function call is still one lookup away
Oct 31 19:37:29 <dwmw2_BOS> qt is relatively tasteful in what it uses of that extra shit
Oct 31 19:37:38 <piratephlox> C++ is not java pupnik. the language isn't build around oo.
Oct 31 19:38:18 <RST38h> The usual culprit in bad performance and reliability of C++ code is the new/delete
Oct 31 19:38:25 <lcuk> dwmw2_BOS, some would say the MOC ontop to give inheritence chains throws what you said to the side
Oct 31 19:38:46 <RST38h> By extension, STL usually leads to performance problems
Oct 31 19:38:59 <lcuk> you rarely hear people complaining about how clean and presentable qt code actually is (infact theres many compliments)
Oct 31 19:39:01 <dwmw2_BOS> lcuk: perhaps
Oct 31 19:39:18 <pervert> i code in qbasic 4.5
Oct 31 19:39:19 <dwmw2_BOS> I have a vague recollection of hating that part :)
Oct 31 19:39:28 <dwmw2_BOS> it's been a quite since I did anything in qt though
Oct 31 19:39:39 <lcuk> pervert, hm?
Oct 31 19:39:41 <dwmw2_BOS> not since I was working on the iPaq stuff in about 2002
Oct 31 19:40:03 <pervert> lol. "hm?" is right. i was just being a tool
Oct 31 19:40:12 <lcuk> pervert, :)
Oct 31 19:40:30 <RST38h> [state-of-factly] Two perverts meet.
Oct 31 19:40:39 <rauli> pervert: you idiot! turbo pascal 7.0 would give you a nice clean ui library and superb compilation and execution performance
Oct 31 19:40:48 <piratephlox> RST38h only if you don't know how to use STL.
Oct 31 19:41:21 <RST38h> pirate: Most people who "know how to use STL" at this level, do not care about anything else but STL
Oct 31 19:41:23 <mechanic> WTF is a N900 anyway?
Oct 31 19:41:34 <dwmw2_BOS> mechanic: nokia linux-based phone
Oct 31 19:41:46 <dwmw2_BOS> successor of their N770/N800/N810 range, except this time with GSM
Oct 31 19:41:51 <RST38h> pirate: So, you either get problems due to people not knowing that you have to write your own memory allocation code for effective STL use
Oct 31 19:41:55 <mechanic> Ah thought it must be a mobile device. ta!
Oct 31 19:42:14 <RST38h> pirate: Or you get problems due to people who spend 90% of their work time writing memory allocation code for effective STL use
Oct 31 19:42:54 <rittk> dwmw2_BOS: and with fake battery)
Oct 31 19:42:54 <pupnik> RST38h: do you think that people who learn programming with procedural or OO have a more useful outlook and skill-set to writing fast code?
Oct 31 19:43:21 <RST38h> pupnik: OO is still procedural
Oct 31 19:43:34 <mechanic> Is this netbook version of Meego just a sideline or are they really trying to promote it on this platform?
Oct 31 19:43:38 <piratephlox> STL is a template library, it already offers quite good memoryallocation.
Oct 31 19:43:40 * dwmw2_BOS learned to program in ml :)
Oct 31 19:43:50 <dwmw2_BOS> lambda-calculus ftw
Oct 31 19:44:45 <mechanic> Where's the quality framework in Meego, coding standards, release criteria, code reviews?
Oct 31 19:45:22 <mechanic> Not impressed with the bug lifecycle process diagram either
Oct 31 19:45:32 <piratephlox> thats probably in the future of meego ;)
Oct 31 19:45:49 <RST38h> pupnik: In fact, OO is not a coding method, it is a data organization method
Oct 31 19:46:03 <pupnik> meh
Oct 31 19:46:08 <pupnik> point taken
Oct 31 19:46:19 <pupnik> now can you understand the question despite that?
Oct 31 19:46:19 <mechanic> Still there seem to be a lot of real programmers involved, presumably they are paid?
Oct 31 19:46:49 <RST38h> pupnik: case in point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_Lisp
Oct 31 19:47:49 <RST38h> pupnik: Well, answering your question at its face value, I think that starting children with OO from the beginning is wrong
Oct 31 19:48:14 <mechanic> What was wrong with Logo as a starting language?
Oct 31 19:48:19 <RST38h> pupnik: If you are teaching them programming, Pascal or BASIC are probably the most fitting languages
Oct 31 19:48:53 <RST38h> pupnik: Both are generic enough to be similar to other widespread languages (so the kid will not have to relearn programming)
Oct 31 19:49:01 <mechanic> But who learns programming these days, code writing is becoming automated
Oct 31 19:49:03 <RST38h> pupnik: Both are easy and low on keywords
Oct 31 19:49:05 <pupnik> ty, i agree
Oct 31 19:49:11 <pupnik> also not too much abstraction
Oct 31 19:49:19 <RST38h> pupnik: There is just enough
Oct 31 19:49:55 <RST38h> pupnik: OO is something you show them once they start writing code and discover that they are better off grouping properties into structures
Oct 31 19:50:02 <piratephlox> maybe Brainfuck?
Oct 31 19:50:25 <RST38h> pupnik: At which point you suggest adding methods too, and you have got primitive OO
Oct 31 19:50:46 <RST38h> Just like C++, hehe :)
Oct 31 19:50:52 <pupnik> :)
Oct 31 19:51:22 <pupnik> at university, starting with something like scheme is good for seperating out the people who shouldn't be in the programme
Oct 31 19:51:46 <RST38h> Dunno, Scheme probably qualifies as cruel/unusual punishment
Oct 31 19:52:21 <RST38h> Like placing newborn kittens into a room with lined walls to see if they can still recognize vertical lines after that
Oct 31 19:53:24 <RST38h> (do note that I am all for experimenting on humans, there are just too many around, but there are better experiments to conduct)
Oct 31 19:59:39 <pupnik> lol
Oct 31 19:59:41 <CosmoHill> who would I need to speak to about the screen shots?
Oct 31 20:12:03 <pupnik> nice analogy RST38h
Oct 31 20:20:18 <niala>  
Oct 31 20:37:38 <rittk> newborn kittens are blind, AFAIK
Oct 31 20:38:08 <CosmoHill> only for a few days
Oct 31 20:38:26 <CosmoHill> it's more that they can't open their eyes than are actually blind
Oct 31 20:39:14 <rittk> btw, who added those cute kittens to a demo media?)
Oct 31 20:40:52 <lcuk> on this night of Halloween, shouldn't Meego have a Scary UX?
Oct 31 20:40:55 <lcuk> modded broomsticks
Oct 31 20:41:48 <leinir> Hehe, halloweenie meegons ;)
Oct 31 20:45:31 <sofar> rittk: someone at intel but I haven't figured out who yet...
Oct 31 20:48:11 <rittk> also I have an idea for the meego bootscreen
Oct 31 20:48:42 <rittk> make it like those stereo images)
Oct 31 20:48:55 <sofar> red/blue glasses?
Oct 31 20:49:01 <rittk> no
Oct 31 20:49:23 * rittk googling
Oct 31 20:51:29 <sofar> http://www.mpi-inf.mpg.de/~gziegler/stereo/images/stereo_example.png ?
Oct 31 20:51:32 <rittk> http://berland.ru/stereo/sirds_1610091.php
Oct 31 20:53:09 <sofar> those are annoying as hell
Oct 31 20:53:31 <owen1> can i use meego on an arm tablet, as the archos 101?
Oct 31 20:53:51 <rittk> thebootscreen's background looks exactly like these stereoimages
Oct 31 20:53:58 <rittk> but w/o anyhiddenimage)
Oct 31 20:54:03 <sofar> ah IC
Oct 31 20:54:33 <sofar> owen1: in theory yes, in practice anything not on the support list will require a certain amount of work to get it working
Oct 31 20:54:43 * rittk hits his keyboard
Oct 31 20:54:51 <owen1> sofar: where can i find a list of devices+
Oct 31 20:55:08 <sofar> http://meego.com/ see top-right part
Oct 31 20:55:17 <sofar> http://iphonevsdroid.net/tag/archos-101-meego/
Oct 31 20:55:27 <owen1> thakn
Oct 31 20:55:29 <sofar> it's claimed archos 101 runs meego
Oct 31 20:55:29 <owen1> 10x
Oct 31 20:55:40 <sofar> but I don't recall confirmation
Oct 31 20:56:04 <sofar> afk
Oct 31 20:58:15 <CosmoHill> sofar: a char is 1 byte, correct?
Oct 31 20:58:19 <sofar> yes
Oct 31 20:58:43 <sofar> that's why strings are arrays of chars
Oct 31 20:58:49 <pervert> holy shit. its 2pm and kids are already trick-or-treating
Oct 31 20:58:56 <sofar> wow
Oct 31 20:58:59 <CosmoHill> a long int would be 16 bytes?
Oct 31 20:59:02 <sofar> that's early
Oct 31 20:59:11 <pervert> yeah, its super early
Oct 31 20:59:23 <pervert> i better go get some candy or leave my dog outside to scare the kids away
Oct 31 20:59:35 <sofar> long int? no I thought that was 8 bytes (64bit)
Oct 31 20:59:39 <CosmoHill> pervert: put the candy on the dog house
Oct 31 20:59:47 <sofar> CosmoHill: sizeof(long)
Oct 31 21:00:43 <sofar> CosmoHill: but, it varies per standard and the only way to know for sure is to use sizeof()
Oct 31 21:01:11 <CosmoHill> ah, a long int is the size of the processor
Oct 31 21:01:12 <rittk> it also varies per platform
Oct 31 21:01:19 <CosmoHill> so 32 bits = 4 bytes
Oct 31 21:01:19 <rittk> yep
Oct 31 21:01:20 <sofar> afaik long long == 128bits (16 bytes)
Oct 31 21:01:38 <sofar> yeah I'm mostly focussed on ia32
Oct 31 21:01:55 <CosmoHill> so my program wants to put 38B on the processor
Oct 31 21:02:10 <sofar> 4.75 bytes, lol
Oct 31 21:02:17 <sofar> what's packed in that? a float?
Oct 31 21:02:28 <CosmoHill> 38 bytes
Oct 31 21:02:33 <sofar> oh bytes
Oct 31 21:02:44 <CosmoHill> small b for bytes?
Oct 31 21:02:47 <sofar> the only way to reliably do that is probably a string
Oct 31 21:03:06 <sofar> b/B are not consistent, always use the word
Oct 31 21:03:58 <sofar> are you making me do your homework?
Oct 31 21:04:21 <CosmoHill> sofar: as an intel person you might like to know this, my program has been running on an Intel Xeon E5520
Oct 31 21:04:26 <CosmoHill> ...since monday
Oct 31 21:05:55 <CosmoHill> sofar: nope
Oct 31 21:06:35 <sofar> shrug, we have those around in the office
Oct 31 21:06:50 <sofar> sorry, unless it's unreleased hardware it doesn't get me excited anymore :)
Oct 31 21:07:34 <CosmoHill> I barely have anything new, let alone unreleased :p
Oct 31 21:12:33 <CosmoHill> when I say since monday, I mean solidly running
Oct 31 21:23:10 <owen1> i want to run meego on a vm. i have  Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.60GHz. i read that it have to be SSSE3. is my cpu ok?
Oct 31 21:23:21 <CosmoHill> no
Oct 31 21:23:42 <CosmoHill> You will need a Atom or C2 or newer
Oct 31 21:26:17 <owen1> CosmoHill: got it
Oct 31 22:37:31 <niala> in kickstart file the rule: keyboard fr  doesn't work
Oct 31 22:39:01 <eikke> is there any general-purpose distribution which provides a working Meego 1.1 Netbook UX ?
Oct 31 22:41:10 <CosmoHill> eikke: not yet, MeeGo 1.1 only came out on thursday
Oct 31 22:42:17 <eikke> they could've been tracking development releases or something ;)
Oct 31 22:43:00 <eikke> I really like the UI on my netbook, but need much more packages than what's provided by meego (as a distribution)
Oct 31 22:44:54 * niala think, if martien have invented computer, now we all speaking martien
Oct 31 22:45:51 <dwmw2_BOS> eikke: which packages? Should be easy enough to import...
Oct 31 22:46:02 <dwmw2_BOS> isn't there even an open build system you can use?
Oct 31 22:46:24 <eikke> dwmw2_BOS: mostly development stuff: gvim, the whole GHC Haskell platform and related stuff, a full-fledged Python development environment,...
Oct 31 22:47:06 <eikke> ideally I could run both 'normal' gnome sessions and meego sessions on my netbook, depending on what I'm doing
Oct 31 22:47:23 <eikke> gnome for dev etc, meego for entertainment sessions
Oct 31 23:12:36 <ClaesBas> Which version of 1.1.80.x is known to "work/boot" on N900 (following the Wiki "Installing MeeGo to N900 on external MMC card")?
Oct 31 23:13:50 <CosmoHill> yes version 1.1, this is the latest stable release
Oct 31 23:14:02 <CosmoHill> v1.1.80x is the 1.2 alpha release
Oct 31 23:15:15 <ClaesBas> CosmoHill: So v1.0.99.3... is 1.1?
Oct 31 23:15:23 <sofar> pre-1.1 yes
Oct 31 23:15:24 <CosmoHill> it's the beta
Oct 31 23:15:57 <ClaesBas> Exactly which one is 1.1 in http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds ?
Oct 31 23:16:07 <CosmoHill> ClaesBas: the one called 1.1
Oct 31 23:16:10 <CosmoHill> it came out thursday
Oct 31 23:16:19 <sofar> wrong folder
Oct 31 23:16:23 <sofar> see /releases/ instead
Oct 31 23:16:30 <sofar> http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/
Oct 31 23:16:58 <ClaesBas> Somebody should change the Wiki!
Oct 31 23:17:08 <sofar> it's a wiki, you can do it
Oct 31 23:17:10 <sofar> which page?
Oct 31 23:17:14 <dolp> 1.1 is pretty useless super slow and looks horrible :D
Oct 31 23:17:40 <ClaesBas> But it seams like somebody knows allready how to do it!
Oct 31 23:17:59 <sofar> again, which wiki page needs changing?
Oct 31 23:18:31 <ClaesBas> http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC pointing to http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/
Oct 31 23:19:11 <ClaesBas> Maybe s/builds/release/
Oct 31 23:19:31 <sofar> fixed. please proof read the change.
Oct 31 23:20:55 <ClaesBas> sofar: It looks better!
Oct 31 23:22:07 <ClaesBas> sofar: Doesn't any of the dev-builds work with the "MMC method"?
Oct 31 23:22:21 <CosmoHill> sofar: are you the person to talk to about the screen shots?
Oct 31 23:23:09 <sofar> CosmoHill: prolly dawnfoster or mshaver
Oct 31 23:23:18 <sofar> ClaesBas: did I say that anywhere?
Oct 31 23:23:30 * CosmoHill pokes DawnFoster
Oct 31 23:23:45 <sofar> afk
Oct 31 23:24:07 <ClaesBas> sofar: No, I was only curious....
Oct 31 23:24:31 <dolp> claesbas: i tried 1.1.80.4 some days ago
Oct 31 23:25:00 <ClaesBas> dolp: Did you get more than a prompt?
Oct 31 23:25:44 <dolp> yep.. it ran ok
Oct 31 23:26:21 <ClaesBas> dolp: Did you do it the "MMC way"?
Oct 31 23:28:34 <dolp> ClaesBas: yep.. like this http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC#Windows
Oct 31 23:29:53 <dolp> and then http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC#Running_Meego
Oct 31 23:30:52 <ClaesBas> dolp: After the "flasher boot" (with or without U-key), did have to do anything and how long did it take to get some graphics on the screen?
Oct 31 23:31:49 <ClaesBas> s/did have/did you have/
Oct 31 23:31:51 <infobot> ClaesBas meant: dolp: After the "flasher boot" (with or without U-key), did you have to do anything and how long did it take to get some graphics on the screen?
Oct 31 23:34:07 <dolp> i pressed u-key and guess it didnt take long
Oct 31 23:34:57 <ClaesBas> I try it again...
Oct 31 23:35:00 <dolp> tho before that i tried 1.1.80.3 version and it didnt work.. gave kernel panic. so no graphics there whatsoever..
Oct 31 23:50:43 <CosmoHill> cyas
Oct 31 23:54:56 <ClaesBas> ni1s: The world is small.. i'm also at ...dre.sth.bostream.se
Oct 31 23:59:23 <jaafar> qmake on the meego sdk really wants to use something called "mmoc" instead of "moc".  And of course, mmoc does not exist... Anyone seen this before?
Nov 01 00:05:39 <jaafar> OK, Mek just demonstrated that this stems from using the "meegotouch" option with CONFIG in your qmake .pro file.  Bug?
Nov 01 00:06:11 <thiago> no
Nov 01 00:06:59 <sh0gunk0> is there some MeeGo app repository already?
Nov 01 00:07:14 <sh0gunk0> with rpm packages?
Nov 01 00:08:44 <thiago> no, just repo.meego.com
Nov 01 00:09:05 <Mek> not a bug? with CONFIG += meegotouch in your .pro file regardless of if you actually use meegotouch, meego-qt-creator fails to build anything for a meego target, with it it works fine
Nov 01 00:09:23 <sh0gunk0> repo.meego.com doesn't contain any aplication repositories as far I have checked
Nov 01 00:09:48 <sh0gunk0> the app repositories will be in there? I mean, in the future, on repo.meego.com
Nov 01 00:11:50 <jaafar> thiago: would love a workaround or some suggestion of how to do it right if it's something I'm doing... thanks
Nov 01 00:11:50 <sh0gunk0> anyway, it is possible to use fedora's repos now right?
Nov 01 00:12:16 <sh0gunk0> in meego
Nov 01 00:12:21 <niala> sh0gunk0: nop
Nov 01 00:12:28 <sh0gunk0> why not :/
Nov 01 00:12:44 <niala> because meego != fedora
Nov 01 00:12:53 <ljp> hmm.. did a zypper update and now meego wont auto mount the sd card ;( or mount it at all through the gui
Nov 01 00:13:34 <sh0gunk0> so meego is now completely without any aplications :/
Nov 01 00:13:47 <sh0gunk0> look at maemo, you can get plenty of apps from debian arm repos
Nov 01 00:14:14 <sh0gunk0> I mean shell aplications
Nov 01 00:14:24 <niala> sh0gunk0: you can add a repos fedora on ubuntu? or suse on fedora?
Nov 01 00:15:11 <sh0gunk0> but ubuntu uses apt-get and suse zypper if I am right
Nov 01 00:15:20 <sh0gunk0> fedora = yum, meego = yum
Nov 01 00:15:56 <niala> sh0gunk0: yep you can add any rpm you want, but it can broke your os updates and so
Nov 01 00:16:12 <niala> suse = rpm mandriva to
Nov 01 00:17:10 <jaafar> lacking any other alternative, I've just linked /usr/lib/madde/linux-i686/targets/meego-core-armv7l-1.1/bin/moc to mmoc and moved on... strange that it doesn't work though
Nov 01 00:18:00 <niala> sh0gunk0:  you can build you own rpm (I know it's no really easy) http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Tutorial
Nov 01 00:19:54 <sh0gunk0> ok but let's say that someone writes a program for MeeGo, compiles rpm package and so, he wants to publish it, where if MeeGo has no place for packages yet?
Nov 01 00:20:44 <niala> sh0gunk0: not yet, public OBS is not ready, soon
Nov 01 00:21:29 <sh0gunk0> hmm, ok
Nov 01 00:21:32 <sh0gunk0> thanks
Nov 01 00:21:47 <niala> think meego is still in dev
Nov 01 00:22:09 <niala> but stable...
Nov 01 00:22:27 <niala> sh0gunk0: ./configure ; make; make install  ;)
Nov 01 00:22:32 <sh0gunk0> I think the first meego tablet has been released
Nov 01 00:22:51 <sh0gunk0> so they release the device without any app repository
Nov 01 00:24:19 <niala> yes. or maybe a company repos ?   wich tablet?
Nov 01 00:25:07 <niala> not in store isn't it
Nov 01 00:25:17 <niala> is it
Nov 01 00:25:22 <sh0gunk0> http://pycage.blogspot.com/2010/10/wetab-look-at-first-meego-tablet.html
Nov 01 00:25:27 <niala> lol my english sorry :)
Nov 01 00:27:05 <sh0gunk0> hmm I see
Nov 01 00:27:08 <sh0gunk0> http://meegonews.com/2010/10/08/wetab-proof-that-meego-needs-apps/
Nov 01 00:27:21 <sh0gunk0> In that respect, the WeTab could be a good product but unfortunately, the content and 3rd-party application stores (Intel’s AppUp and FonPits AndroidPIT) are missing. The UI isn’t quite finished either. WeTab has it’s own applications store but currently only a ‘handful’ of apps are available.
Nov 01 00:30:57 <sh0gunk0> and yes, it is on market already
Nov 01 00:31:06 <niala> well strange
Nov 01 00:31:10 <sh0gunk0> using company repos
Nov 01 00:31:11 <sh0gunk0> only
Nov 01 00:31:12 <sh0gunk0> :/
Nov 01 00:32:26 <sh0gunk0> MeeGo repos should have been one of the first things to do, imagine that there is a device already in stores, people can buy it, they can start making apps for it, but they don't have any MeeGo publishing place
Nov 01 00:33:19 <sh0gunk0> or not imagine, it is true already :)
Nov 01 00:34:25 <niala> in other way meego is linux so you "can do what you want". I mean it's difficult and long to setup public OBS
Nov 01 00:34:31 <niala> not trivial
Nov 01 00:35:44 <sh0gunk0> well Asus did it, seems in a very short time, for that WeTab
Nov 01 00:38:27 <sh0gunk0> Palm's WebOS device have been released, place for apps have been available, Android first device released, it has been available, even community distros like SHR have repositories
Nov 01 00:38:42 <jaafar> Anyone try to install an rpm that was built with the meego sdk onto a meego handset (n900)?
Nov 01 00:39:21 <niala> Stskeeps: pouvez-vous donner l'url de votre configuration d'obs iin your wiki
Nov 01 00:39:44 <sh0gunk0> maybe it's fault of Asus that they released a device with non-complete OS
Nov 01 00:39:45 <niala> sorry can you give your url to setup obs Stskeeps
Nov 01 00:40:37 <jaafar> when I run "file" on the generated rpm on the development system I get: rrpmbuild/jeffsfirstmeegoapp-0.0.1-1.armv7l.rpm: RPM v3 bin i386 jeffsfirstmeegoapp-0.0.1-1
Nov 01 00:41:09 <jaafar> the target system rejects this rpm with a "Problem reading the RPM header of jeffsfirstmeegoapp-0.0.1-1.armv7l.rpm. Is it an RPM file?" error
Nov 01 00:41:49 <jaafar> If there's anyone who actually tried to do an rpm install on a handset please tell me any special hints you have thanks :)
Nov 01 00:42:07 <niala> in fact just setup an obs is not difficult, there is a lot of tutorial on the web. But other difficulties
Nov 01 00:42:36 <niala> sorry jaafar I have only play with netbook version for now
Nov 01 00:43:04 <niala> jaafar: maybe in #meego-arm
Nov 01 00:44:02 <sh0gunk0> yes but still seems strange to me, that a big project, covered by companies like Intel and Nokia and after that long time, with device release, usable versions for N900, still don't have OBS
Nov 01 00:45:21 <niala> n900 is an old phone he run with maemo, it's only compatible with meego.
Nov 01 00:46:30 <sh0gunk0> I know, with device release I meant the Atom powered WeTab
Nov 01 00:47:05 <sh0gunk0> because it is actually first official MeeGo device
Nov 01 00:47:17 * niala is just an user like other, he can fail :)
Nov 01 00:48:38 <sh0gunk0> I don't blame niala here, probably Intel did have to push the things, because WeTab is Atom device and Intel is doing MeeGo mainly because of Atom
Nov 01 00:49:00 <sh0gunk0> Nokia is fine here since they didn't release any phone yet
Nov 01 00:50:01 <niala> sure netook version is the more complete version of meego
Nov 01 00:51:03 <sh0gunk0> but not complete since it doesn't have own app repositories
Nov 01 00:52:17 <niala> sh0gunk0: try meego on virtual environment. bah I can do everything I want with meego,
Nov 01 00:52:34 <niala> vi and terminal and the world is your :)
Nov 01 00:52:59 <niala> almost
Nov 01 00:53:07 <sh0gunk0> OS without apps is not an OS, with manual app installation/getting --> c'mon, are we on Windows?, with separate company app stores --> main fault, we need to let users use 1 app place from the start
Nov 01 00:53:21 <sh0gunk0> yes I know I can use in virtualbox
Nov 01 00:54:01 <sh0gunk0> but my point is, that there is a device released and Intel side of the project doesn't care of any app repos
Nov 01 00:54:44 <niala> yes I m agree, but time is time and for now we must wait until public repos is open for all the world :)
Nov 01 00:54:55 <sh0gunk0> yes :(
Nov 01 00:54:59 <niala> sure if no app meego will die
Nov 01 00:55:11 <sh0gunk0> thath's the point
Nov 01 00:55:30 <sh0gunk0> everyone writes about QT know, world is full of it, but no place to publish
Nov 01 00:55:42 <niala> but with meego you can do your-crazy-app
Nov 01 00:56:05 <niala> be patient and prepare your app
Nov 01 00:56:22 <sh0gunk0> :-)
Nov 01 00:56:37 <sh0gunk0> true, no other choice at the moment
Nov 01 00:56:43 <niala> rare an os where you can do your own app before anything
Nov 01 00:56:54 <niala> before the harware lol
Nov 01 00:57:02 <niala> hardware
Nov 01 00:57:13 <niala> (sorry 2x my english)
Nov 01 00:57:41 <sh0gunk0> it's not true, because there is a hardware already :) the WeTab
Nov 01 00:58:05 <sh0gunk0> being sold on amazon germany and other stores
Nov 01 00:58:30 <niala> meego is alive since may
Nov 01 00:58:31 <jaafar> niala: thanks for the suggestion
Nov 01 00:58:53 <jaafar> for anyone who is interested I copied my app binary over with sftp
Nov 01 00:58:54 <niala> jaafar: wellcome, ? I don't remenber :)
Nov 01 00:59:05 <jaafar> (for suggesting I try meego-arm)
Nov 01 00:59:16 <niala> jaafar: sh0gunk0 will install an app :)
Nov 01 00:59:31 <niala> what is your app ?
Nov 01 01:00:13 <jaafar> niala: just a basic simple starter app to check the development flow.  Uses libmeegotouch for look and feel, displays current orientation of the device
Nov 01 01:00:45 <jaafar> It was two full days getting this to work.  Documentation IMO is fragmentary and occasionally self-contradictory.  I'm going to write up my experiences in the hope it helps others
Nov 01 01:00:54 <niala> I note your nickname jaafar if I need help with qt/c++ ;)
Nov 01 01:01:13 <niala> jaafar: yes please :)
Nov 01 01:01:13 <sh0gunk0> gj
Nov 01 01:01:51 <sh0gunk0> 2am in here
Nov 01 01:01:59 <sh0gunk0> work tomorrow :/
Nov 01 01:02:02 <niala> same
Nov 01 01:02:11 <niala> european
Nov 01 01:02:15 <sh0gunk0> yes
Nov 01 01:02:17 <sh0gunk0> czech republic
Nov 01 01:02:32 <niala> france nice to meet you
Nov 01 01:02:52 <sh0gunk0> france cool, I am going to work for France customers in 2 weeks
Nov 01 01:02:57 <sh0gunk0> nice to meet you
Nov 01 01:03:06 <sh0gunk0> like France outsourcing team
Nov 01 01:03:17 <sh0gunk0> placed here in Czech
Nov 01 01:03:48 <sh0gunk0> currently working in Italian team and it's terrible, Italian people are terrible :P
Nov 01 01:04:36 <niala> well my english to bad I haven't understandt
Nov 01 01:04:36 <niala> terrible like? like cool ? or ?
Nov 01 01:05:06 <sh0gunk0> well, terrible to work with them
Nov 01 01:05:19 <niala> all the country are great, only certain person in world are not good :)
Nov 01 01:06:07 <sh0gunk0> yes, but some countries contain more of these certain people :D
Nov 01 01:06:46 <sh0gunk0> my experience with Italian side of IBM is terrible, maybe in other companies it's better
Nov 01 01:07:45 <sh0gunk0> anyway, is it hard to get work as unix administrator in France without knowing the french language?
Nov 01 01:07:47 <niala> it depends on the canteen :)
Nov 01 01:07:59 <sh0gunk0> get job *
Nov 01 01:08:24 <sh0gunk0> do you require french a lot in IT jobs?
Nov 01 01:08:34 <niala> well get any work in france is difficult for now
Nov 01 01:08:42 <sh0gunk0> aha :-?
Nov 01 01:08:52 <sh0gunk0> aha :-/
Nov 01 01:09:22 <niala> sh0gunk0: yes but only in some area, like big city paris, marseille, lyon
Nov 01 01:09:58 <sh0gunk0> big cities are fine for me
Nov 01 01:10:27 <niala> well get any work in france is difficult for now <--- like every where. no?
Nov 01 01:10:59 <sh0gunk0> currently working in Brno, which is a city with lot's of IT developer/delivery centres, not that big city, but I want to go abroad finally
Nov 01 01:11:02 <niala> yes paris is fine, and marseille you have a hot sea near your job
Nov 01 01:11:39 <sh0gunk0> but we have here a big IBM delivery centre in Brno, 3000 employees, L1, L2 and L3 outsourcing
Nov 01 01:11:54 <sh0gunk0> then we have AT&T outsourcing centre
Nov 01 01:12:06 <sh0gunk0> Red Hat developer centre, biggest in Europe
Nov 01 01:12:12 <sh0gunk0> and many others
Nov 01 01:12:15 <niala> go to berkeley! the king of computer and robotic lol
Nov 01 01:12:23 <sh0gunk0> hehe
Nov 01 01:13:22 <niala> s/king/the kingdom
Nov 01 01:13:51 <sh0gunk0> y
Nov 01 01:13:53 <niala> and nice weather, that is importaznt! :)
Nov 01 01:14:00 <sh0gunk0> yes I check now
Nov 01 01:14:04 <sh0gunk0> Marseille look great
Nov 01 01:14:17 <sh0gunk0> I don't like hot weather and cold neither
Nov 01 01:14:25 <niala> a good football team :)
Nov 01 01:15:44 <sh0gunk0> http://www.worldweather.org/062/c01055.htm
Nov 01 01:15:48 <sh0gunk0> this is great
Nov 01 01:15:52 <sh0gunk0> very stable weather!
Nov 01 01:16:41 <sh0gunk0> I mean, in Brno we have even 35 °C in summer and sometimes -20 °C in winter
Nov 01 01:16:58 <sh0gunk0> big differencies
Nov 01 01:17:00 <niala> mediterranean climat
Nov 01 01:17:35 <niala> ouch, but I love when we have a true summer and a true winter,
Nov 01 01:18:08 <niala> this punctuates the years
Nov 01 01:18:33 <sh0gunk0> +35 °C in the shadows and +45 °C on sun is not true summer but hell :P
Nov 01 01:18:51 <sh0gunk0> and -20 °C is not comfortable as well
Nov 01 01:19:10 <niala> :) it's a punition
Nov 01 01:19:29 <niala> punishment
Nov 01 01:19:32 <niala> sorry
Nov 01 01:19:49 <sh0gunk0> it is
Nov 01 01:20:01 <sh0gunk0> one of the things why I want to get out of the country
Nov 01 01:20:17 <sh0gunk0> but worst time for it, because of world crysis
Nov 01 01:21:47 <pupnik> i found the scandinavian countries much nicer places to do IT business than france
Nov 01 01:21:50 <pupnik> back around 2003
Nov 01 01:22:47 <sh0gunk0> yes, interest for them as well :)
Nov 01 01:23:05 <niala> sh0gunk0: yes but be movable is an advantage
Nov 01 01:23:12 <sh0gunk0> sure
Nov 01 01:23:36 <sh0gunk0> but the thing is, that in scandinavian countries, norway, sweden etc. they require their language a lot
Nov 01 01:24:01 <sh0gunk0> sometimes, you sign a job contract with a note, that you have to learn norwegian in 2 years, etc.
Nov 01 01:24:29 <niala> sh0gunk0: french are the worst, we speak english often (and other language to) like spanish cow
Nov 01 01:24:51 <sh0gunk0> heh
Nov 01 01:25:09 <niala> I mean you can easily speak english in other country than france :)
Nov 01 01:25:22 <sh0gunk0> yes I get your point
Nov 01 01:26:14 <sh0gunk0> actually scandinavian people speak english almost like maiden language (excellent level) but they still require their language (norwegian, swedish, ..) a lot for jobs
Nov 01 01:26:17 <niala> we are to pretentious to speak other language than french ;D
Nov 01 01:27:20 <sh0gunk0> but french is the main language along with german and english
Nov 01 01:27:29 <sh0gunk0> it is acceptable
Nov 01 01:27:42 <blackrock> what's with this weather, countries, etc.?
Nov 01 01:27:43 <sh0gunk0> eg. official language in Canada
Nov 01 01:28:00 <blackrock> isn't it a meebo channel?
Nov 01 01:28:18 <niala> yes it is, you have a question blackrock
Nov 01 01:28:27 <sh0gunk0> it is :D, just no one was speaking so we fill the board up
Nov 01 01:28:42 <sh0gunk0> yes, shoot a question
Nov 01 01:28:45 <niala> we only take a virtual coffee :)
Nov 01 01:28:52 <blackrock> no i'm just stalking the channel
Nov 01 01:28:53 <blackrock> :)
Nov 01 01:29:29 <blackrock> actually, i'm eager to develop for meego, and waiting for more phone support
Nov 01 01:30:08 <niala> blackrock: you can already devl for meego
Nov 01 01:31:03 <niala> sh0gunk0: canada is more reallistic
Nov 01 01:32:05 <blackrock> when meego replaces symbian, would the old smart phones just be left behind?
Nov 01 01:32:29 <sh0gunk0> MeeGo is not meant to replace Symbian
Nov 01 01:32:54 <sh0gunk0> MeeGo is developed for high-end device and Nokia still develops Symbian a lot
Nov 01 01:33:13 <niala> symbian will die more like win95 or comodore or amstrad, with the time...
Nov 01 01:33:32 <thiago> and like win95, it will be around and relevant for longer than people expected
Nov 01 01:33:44 <sh0gunk0> and now, there will be no more versioning of Symbian like Symbian 3 etc. only one Symbian with rolling releases
Nov 01 01:34:29 <sh0gunk0> in case the MeeGo starts to be very popular, yes it is possible that Nokia will let the Symbian die
Nov 01 01:34:49 <sh0gunk0> but currently, they still plan to do phones with it and they develop it actively
Nov 01 01:35:56 <thiago> just a couple hundred million more
Nov 01 01:35:56 <niala> maybe they have to more project for make a success with one ?
Nov 01 01:37:05 <sh0gunk0> I hope they will try to success with one MeeGo mainly, they are putting all their hopes into the Nokia N9, first MeeGo phone
Nov 01 01:37:30 <sh0gunk0> this should be like best seller, or Nokia wants it to be. needs
Nov 01 01:37:51 <thiago> it's hard to beat the current nokia best seller
Nov 01 01:37:52 <niala> thiago: have you the url from Stskeeps to setup a virtual OBS ?
Nov 01 01:37:54 <sh0gunk0> and for Sybian devices, they will still do tons of them, low end piecies for few bucks :P
Nov 01 01:38:02 <thiago> niala: no
Nov 01 01:38:29 <thiago> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_1101 <--- best seller
Nov 01 01:38:32 <sh0gunk0> N8 is an exception, after meego device release, I don't  think any other Symbian device will be selling so much
Nov 01 01:38:37 <sh0gunk0> hehe
Nov 01 01:38:51 <sh0gunk0> I didn't like this one
Nov 01 01:39:14 <niala> ahh souvenirs souvenirs
Nov 01 01:40:50 <sh0gunk0> Nokia 9000 and 9110 were cool ones, with GeOS :P
Nov 01 01:40:53 <thiago> symbian devices will still sell more than any close competitor, save maybe for the iPhone
Nov 01 01:41:10 <sh0gunk0> then Nokia 9210 started era of Symbian
Nov 01 01:41:23 <thiago> I mean each device
Nov 01 01:41:27 <sh0gunk0> yes
Nov 01 01:41:41 <sh0gunk0> but, look at the Android
Nov 01 01:41:56 <niala> when ressource like coltan and lithium will be spent
Nov 01 01:42:08 <thiago> coltane?
Nov 01 01:42:23 <thiago> yep, smart phones made of coltane :-)
Nov 01 01:42:45 <thiago> then they'll rise and rule us, so we'll have to send someone back in time
Nov 01 01:42:46 <niala> yep
Nov 01 01:43:05 <sh0gunk0> niala, you mentioned souvenirs and I remembered one cool song :P
Nov 01 01:43:18 <sh0gunk0> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUSOBYzUVqA
Nov 01 01:43:18 <niala> long time ago sillicium valley has sillicium...
Nov 01 01:43:34 <sh0gunk0> singing about souvenirs also :P
Nov 01 01:45:21 <niala> nice whos is the singer? singerin (whet the correct word?)
Nov 01 01:45:43 <sh0gunk0> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4hVCvab9X8 this is the original one ;)
Nov 01 01:46:35 <niala> waldek? polish singer ?
Nov 01 01:47:37 <sh0gunk0> isn't it a french band? according to the accent
Nov 01 01:48:26 <niala> lol maybe. I ask my second brain google
Nov 01 01:48:30 <sh0gunk0> hmm probably Austria, Vienna, http://www.waldeck.at/
Nov 01 01:50:57 <niala> well time to bed
Nov 01 01:51:24 <niala> see you later #meego
Nov 01 01:51:50 <niala> good night sh0gunk0 thiago
Nov 01 01:53:38 <sh0gunk0> night
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 01 02:59:57 2010