**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 10 02:59:57 2010
Nov 10 03:02:18 <lebronjames> nobody knows?
Nov 10 03:02:34 <pixelgeek> There's just a lot of idelrs on the channel
Nov 10 03:02:38 <pixelgeek> idlers
Nov 10 03:02:44 <lebronjames> o
Nov 10 03:02:47 <lebronjames> lame
Nov 10 03:02:48 <pixelgeek> lebronjames: check out http://meego.com/about
Nov 10 03:02:52 <lebronjames> wakeup idlers
Nov 10 03:03:03 <lebronjames> pixelgeek, spoon feed me please
Nov 10 03:03:43 <pixelgeek> That description is pretty self-explanatory.  It's a linux distribution.
Nov 10 03:04:08 <lebronjames> well
Nov 10 03:04:10 <lebronjames> what for
Nov 10 03:04:42 <pixelgeek> further down on that page - MeeGo currently targets platforms such as netbooks/entry-level desktops, handheld computing and communications devices, in-vehicle infotainment devices, connected TVs, and media phones.
Nov 10 03:04:57 <lebronjames> hrm
Nov 10 03:05:00 <lebronjames> gimme more!
Nov 10 03:05:25 <pixelgeek> Check out meego.com  - it's all there.
Nov 10 03:05:50 <lebronjames> no
Nov 10 03:05:54 <lebronjames> u check it out
Nov 10 03:06:52 <lebronjames> u hear me
Nov 10 03:07:28 <lebronjames> punk
Nov 10 03:07:28 <pixelgeek> I hear.  I have checked it out.
Nov 10 03:07:36 <lebronjames> no you're not listening
Nov 10 03:07:39 <chriadam> pixelgeek: were you in channel yesterday when MrTroll disturbed the peace?
Nov 10 03:07:41 <lebronjames> check it out
Nov 10 03:07:55 <pixelgeek> No apparently I missed the fun
Nov 10 03:08:00 <lebronjames> and check my asshole out too
Nov 10 03:08:04 <pixelgeek> I'll go check the logs
Nov 10 03:08:08 <berndhs> this looks like the same type of thing
Nov 10 03:08:09 <pixelgeek> nice
Nov 10 03:08:24 <lebronjames> idlers come to life
Nov 10 03:08:28 <lebronjames> let's talk meego
Nov 10 03:09:35 <lebronjames> meego talk please
Nov 10 03:09:47 <lebronjames> i wanna talk meego
Nov 10 03:09:48 <lebronjames> what is it
Nov 10 03:09:52 <lebronjames> where do i get it ?
Nov 10 03:09:55 <lebronjames> what can i use it on ?
Nov 10 03:10:00 <lebronjames> how much does it cost ?
Nov 10 03:10:05 <lebronjames> can i become involved in development ?
Nov 10 03:10:11 <lebronjames> who created meego ?
Nov 10 03:10:13 <wmarone> www.meego.com
Nov 10 03:10:21 <lebronjames> what is your favorite type of cereal in the morning ?
Nov 10 03:10:24 <wmarone> no need to spam the channel with answered questions
Nov 10 03:10:25 <lebronjames> o that one's not meego
Nov 10 03:10:26 <lebronjames> my bad
Nov 10 03:10:35 <lebronjames> wmarone, you have a problem ?
Nov 10 03:10:35 <osx5> hello everyone
Nov 10 03:10:38 <lebronjames> hi
Nov 10 03:10:41 <lebronjames> sup osx5
Nov 10 03:10:45 <wmarone> someone needs to set a more effective ban on you
Nov 10 03:10:46 <osx5> I'm downloading Meego for my netbook
Nov 10 03:10:47 <lebronjames> nothing but idlers here
Nov 10 03:11:04 <osx5> wmarone: what DE environment does meego use?
Nov 10 03:11:10 <wmarone> DE?
Nov 10 03:11:16 <lebronjames> osx5, can you be more specific ?
Nov 10 03:11:17 <wmarone> meego has its own
Nov 10 03:11:35 <DawnFoster> should I ban the troll?
Nov 10 03:11:36 <osx5> lebronjames: I was wondering what is uses, like gnome etc
Nov 10 03:11:49 <lebronjames> o
Nov 10 03:11:50 <lebronjames> i c
Nov 10 03:11:52 <lebronjames> meego.com
Nov 10 03:11:55 <lebronjames> get the fuck out
Nov 10 03:11:58 <lebronjames> RTFM
Nov 10 03:12:04 <wmarone> DawnFoster: if you do, apply *!*@@209.189.232.*
Nov 10 03:12:16 <wmarone> lebronjames: spamming the channel does no one any good
Nov 10 03:12:18 <lebronjames> where's the troll ?
Nov 10 03:12:53 <michaelg|nok> DawnFoster: yes please
Nov 10 03:13:03 <johnx> DawnFoster, I'll vote yes as well
Nov 10 03:13:10 <lebronjames> i vote yes too
Nov 10 03:13:11 <osx5> wmarone: Does meego use a certain type of package manager? like .deb?
Nov 10 03:13:13 <lebronjames> i hate trolls
Nov 10 03:13:21 <lebronjames> osx5, RTFM
Nov 10 03:13:24 <johnx> osx5, it uses rpms
Nov 10 03:13:30 <lebronjames> fuck
Nov 10 03:13:31 <osx5> ty
Nov 10 03:13:32 <lebronjames> me
Nov 10 03:13:34 <lebronjames> in
Nov 10 03:13:34 <lebronjames> the
Nov 10 03:13:35 <lebronjames> ass
Nov 10 03:13:39 <chriadam> osx5: developers should use Qt to develop applications for MeeGo.  MeeGo uses RPM format for packaging iirc.
Nov 10 03:13:41 <osx5> see ya lebron
Nov 10 03:13:47 <lebronjames> laterz
Nov 10 03:13:55 <lebronjames> osx
Nov 10 03:13:58 <lebronjames> get the fuck out
Nov 10 03:13:59 <lebronjames> i hate u
Nov 10 03:14:27 <lebronjames> lame
Nov 10 03:14:29 <wmarone> DawnFoster: gotta kick, too :)
Nov 10 03:14:33 <lebronjames> naw
Nov 10 03:14:35 <lebronjames> kick the troll
Nov 10 03:14:38 <lebronjames> he's a nigger
Nov 10 03:14:54 <michaelg|nok> \o/
Nov 10 03:14:56 <chriadam> ty DawnFoster, that was getting irritating.
Nov 10 03:14:58 <wmarone> I sadly suspect he'll be back at some point :(
Nov 10 03:15:14 <DawnFoster> I suspect it's MrTroll from yesterday
Nov 10 03:15:19 <wmarone> it is
Nov 10 03:15:21 <pixelgeek> My apologies for feeding him
Nov 10 03:15:28 <DawnFoster> sorry that took so long - I kept botching it :)
Nov 10 03:15:30 <wmarone> same hostmask
Nov 10 03:16:00 <DawnFoster> auke is really good at kicking people :)
Nov 10 03:16:34 <DawnFoster> it's evening here & I'm most of the way through a glass of wine.
Nov 10 03:16:39 <wmarone> heh
Nov 10 03:16:49 <DawnFoster> pixelgeek: thanks for pinging me - I was ignoring IRC
Nov 10 03:17:05 <johnx> DawnFoster, cheers (in both senses of the word) :)
Nov 10 03:17:16 <DawnFoster> johnx: thanks!
Nov 10 03:19:09 <pixelgeek> :)
Nov 10 03:19:34 <DawnFoster> oh great - now he's sending me pm's
Nov 10 03:19:39 <lebronjames> who is?
Nov 10 03:19:40 <DawnFoster> *ignore*
Nov 10 03:19:42 <wmarone> DawnFoster: talk to freenode staff
Nov 10 03:19:59 <wmarone> I don't know why he's -here-, of all places
Nov 10 04:20:12 <osx5> hello again
Nov 10 04:20:37 <pixelgeek> Hi osx5
Nov 10 04:20:49 <osx5> I just installed meego on my netbook, and when I try to update teh system it says I needto make a security signature
Nov 10 04:20:53 <osx5> how do I go about doing that
Nov 10 04:21:38 <johnx> osx5, what does it say exactly?
Nov 10 04:21:39 <pixelgeek> http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=360
Nov 10 04:22:08 * pixelgeek <3 google
Nov 10 04:23:27 <osx5> u roc
Nov 10 04:23:28 <osx5> k
Nov 10 04:23:37 <osx5> pixelgeek: can I switch gnome to xfce? or no
Nov 10 04:24:21 * pixelgeek only started playing with Meego two weeks ago...
Nov 10 04:24:45 <osx5> oh sorry
Nov 10 04:24:53 <pixelgeek> I know there's a X server under the hood...
Nov 10 04:25:24 <sofar> you can install xfce on meego, but not gnome (unless you compile it)
Nov 10 04:25:37 <sofar> however, xfce is only present in the community OBS
Nov 10 04:25:46 <sofar> and it's not documented yet
Nov 10 04:26:36 <osx5> k
Nov 10 04:26:56 <osx5> sofar: when I try to run yum, keeps saying command yum not found
Nov 10 04:27:32 <pixelgeek> Meego 1.1?
Nov 10 04:28:38 <osx5> yup
Nov 10 04:28:48 <osx5> i'm surprised they didn't make xfce the default
Nov 10 04:28:51 <osx5> its lighter
Nov 10 04:29:19 <pixelgeek> MeeGo 1.1. uses Zypper (from OpenSUSE) instead of Yum for console package management.  You can still install Yum through the graphical package manager though.
Nov 10 04:29:34 <osx5> ah
Nov 10 04:29:35 <osx5> cool
Nov 10 04:29:37 <osx5> I didn't know that
Nov 10 04:29:45 <bef0rd> zypper is cooler though
Nov 10 04:29:46 <osx5> I thought it was using yum
Nov 10 04:30:01 <pixelgeek> I saw it mentioned on IRC, found the quote on the forums
Nov 10 04:30:54 <osx5> hm
Nov 10 04:31:01 <osx5> is there anyway I can see the entire file system
Nov 10 04:31:03 <osx5> or only in command line
Nov 10 04:31:10 <bef0rd> there is nautilus
Nov 10 04:33:52 <osx5> in the gui app installer?
Nov 10 04:34:02 <osx5> bef0rd the issue i'm having right now is, i installed the xfce stuff
Nov 10 04:34:09 <osx5> not i'm trying to change the run level to booti nto xfce
Nov 10 04:35:08 <bef0rd> check the /etc/inittab
Nov 10 04:35:17 <bef0rd> but I am not sure if meego uses it
Nov 10 04:35:19 <bef0rd> :P
Nov 10 04:35:52 <bef0rd> uxlaunch is the netbook ux launcher
Nov 10 04:37:02 <bef0rd> http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/uxlaunch/commit/37c14a6c0e08f9e4ad66acde8f858e573d1d34f9
Nov 10 04:37:50 <bef0rd> there you go, replace the uxlaunch command by the xfce start command which I believe is startxfce4 or something like that
Nov 10 04:38:30 <osx5> ty
Nov 10 04:39:15 <bef0rd> if it doesn't work you may need to boot from a live disk to fix it, or start in runlevel 0/3
Nov 10 04:39:40 <bef0rd> also make a backup of the file before changing anything
Nov 10 04:40:10 <osx5> do I have to add this in?
Nov 10 04:40:17 <osx5> the link you sent
Nov 10 04:40:24 <osx5> or download this uxlaunch and compile it?
Nov 10 04:40:35 <bef0rd> no.. try to read everything I said
Nov 10 04:40:40 <osx5> i'm in the /etc/inittab and I don't see anything about ex in there
Nov 10 04:41:14 <osx5> ux*
Nov 10 04:43:21 <bef0rd> it's on the forums aswell, try searching there first
Nov 10 04:43:22 <bef0rd> http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=562
Nov 10 04:43:42 <osx5> ty
Nov 10 04:45:00 <osx5> apreciate the help mamn
Nov 10 04:45:02 <osx5> man
Nov 10 04:45:07 <osx5> I do like this distro so far
Nov 10 04:45:11 <osx5> runs fast
Nov 10 04:48:34 <osx5> blah
Nov 10 04:48:57 <osx5> i rebooted and it just says : x respawning too fast, disabled for 5 minutes
Nov 10 04:49:26 <pixelgeek> Ah - that too a known issue
Nov 10 04:50:08 <pixelgeek> http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=447
Nov 10 04:50:50 <osx5> lol
Nov 10 04:50:55 <osx5> why is it so hard to get xfce going!
Nov 10 04:50:56 <osx5> lol
Nov 10 04:50:59 <pixelgeek> (BTW ^^ didn't work for me when I tried running the netbook image under VirtualBox)
Nov 10 04:51:30 <osx5> i guess i'm stuck with gnome :(
Nov 10 04:51:35 <osx5> sincei t's the default
Nov 10 04:56:17 <sofar> there is no gnome on meego
Nov 10 04:56:23 <sofar> it's "MeeGo Netbook"
Nov 10 04:56:36 <sofar> it maybe looks a bit like gnome, but it's not.
Nov 10 04:57:41 <andrewfblack> is there anyway to get files onto meego handset?
Nov 10 04:57:56 <sofar> on what platform?
Nov 10 04:58:09 <andrewfblack> n900
Nov 10 04:58:16 <sofar> usb cable or wireless
Nov 10 04:58:47 <andrewfblack> does mass storage mode work with usb cable?
Nov 10 04:59:17 <sofar> I think you can use usb-gadget mode on the connected system (linux) and ssh
Nov 10 04:59:53 <andrewfblack> sofar: ok didn't know meego had a ssh server running on it thanks
Nov 10 05:00:06 <sofar> n900 has
Nov 10 05:13:09 <Mat_Matan> hi
Nov 10 05:24:22 <pixelgeek> hi Mat_Matan
Nov 10 05:39:49 <mrcerulean> Good $greeting_time, everyone.
Nov 10 05:40:05 <mrcerulean> I'm trying to install the Google Voice and Video Chat plugin on 1.1
Nov 10 05:40:11 <mrcerulean> libcrypto is required.
Nov 10 05:40:15 <mrcerulean> How do I get it?
Nov 10 07:52:35 <newjor> help!!! I have trouble in installing meego sdk1.1.After executing the command 'mic-chroot /(mounted document)',i execute  the command 'startmeego &',and nothing displayed.
Nov 10 07:55:13 <newjor> help!!! I have trouble in installing meego sdk1.1.After executing the command 'mic-chroot /(mounted document)',i execute  the command 'startmeego &',and nothing displayed.
Nov 10 07:55:33 <Stskeeps> no need to repeat
Nov 10 08:02:08 <newjor> who can help me?
Nov 10 08:02:50 <Stskeeps> what guide did you follow
Nov 10 08:02:51 <Stskeeps> ?
Nov 10 08:14:41 <sx0n> http://www.visionmobile.com/blog/2010/11/the-meego-progress-report-a-or-d/
Nov 10 08:15:36 <Stskeeps> yeah, dneary from here wrote it
Nov 10 08:22:40 <sx0n> yep. Interesting thoughts.
Nov 10 09:02:06 <Guest84749> Hi, I have a question about meego handset video drivers:
Nov 10 09:04:19 <djszapi> lbt: is  your open collaboration service still pending ?
Nov 10 09:04:39 <lbt> it's being worked on
Nov 10 09:05:05 <lbt> by the guys who are involved in garage.maemo.org
Nov 10 09:05:21 <lbt> I've pointed them at the various resources
Nov 10 09:05:26 <djszapi> k, good, let me know if I can help with anything.
Nov 10 09:05:42 <lbt> and we've discussed how to sit it behind the OBS API
Nov 10 09:05:46 <doom> Hi, Is there any way to set up development environmant in Windows?
Nov 10 09:06:01 <lbt> all powerpoint-design at the moment
Nov 10 09:06:05 <djszapi> doom: mingw ?
Nov 10 09:06:30 <lbt> djszapi: maybe reply to the oldish mailing list thread to say that
Nov 10 09:09:03 <kt_> I have a kernel question. What I wanted to accomplish: Make jack sensing/detection possible in meego with my Intel HDA 82801g (codec Realtek ALC272X). What I did: The newest code in git at kernel.org supports jack sensing for this sound card. Therefore I took kernel 2.6.35 (git clone git://gitorius.org/meego-os-base/kernel-source.git) and replaced the patch_realtek.c with the newest one from kernel git and set CONFIG_SND_HDA_INPUT_JACK=y. The kernel compiled, i
Nov 10 09:09:04 <kt_>  got a rpm package and I have installed the new kernel. The outcome: Now I assumed the support was in the kernel but no new jack device has shown up in /dev/inputs/eventX.
Nov 10 09:09:43 <kt_> I want to know if there is something else I need to know?
Nov 10 09:10:00 <kt_> (In order to activate jack sensing)
Nov 10 09:13:14 <lbt> kt_: udev rules?
Nov 10 09:16:49 <kt_> lbt, should I look in /etc/udev/rules.d/?
Nov 10 09:17:30 * lbt not an expert but I wouldn't be surprised if MeeGo udev was minimised
Nov 10 09:19:55 <lbt> auke may know if he's not busy
Nov 10 09:20:03 <Stskeeps> or asleep
Nov 10 09:20:41 <lbt> he sleeps? I thought he was one of us?
Nov 10 09:21:20 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 10 09:21:49 <Jani__> Hi again, another try with the video driver question, hopefully with less computer crashes this time
Nov 10 09:21:58 <kt_> lbt, ok, if i look at the rules on my ubuntu pc (where jack sensing is working) i only see one related to cd loading and one related to ethernet. On the meego pc there are more rules but non of them seems to be related to the sound card
Nov 10 09:22:17 <Stskeeps> Jani__: we never saw your question :)
Nov 10 09:22:48 <Jani__> So, basically what I'm wondering is why several video output drivers are missing from the Meego release 1.1, which were present in version 1.0 (like the x11)
Nov 10 09:22:51 <Jani__> ?
Nov 10 09:23:06 <Jani__> I know, My computer crashed while typing it:)
Nov 10 09:23:41 <Stskeeps> afaik things haven't been removed, but the images themsleves might be been trimmed
Nov 10 09:23:44 <Stskeeps> what are you missing?
Nov 10 09:24:07 <Jani__> I'm trying to get mplayer working in Meego
Nov 10 09:25:41 <Jani__> I was able to do that with the 1.0, with the x11 driver, but in 1.1 there are only the fbdev and fbdev2 drivers, which do not seem to work in my setup
Nov 10 09:27:58 <Stskeeps> what gfx card?
Nov 10 09:29:40 <Jani__> My PC has ati radeon 3450
Nov 10 09:31:10 <Jani__> The list of drivers I get with mplayer -vo help is similar inside the chroot in my pc as in n900 running meego 1.1, both are missing the x11 driver
Nov 10 09:31:44 <Jani__> however, in 1.0 chroot, the drivers are there
Nov 10 09:32:11 <Jani__> in the same pc hardware, only different image
Nov 10 09:47:08 <kt_> lbt, could it be that when I run rpmbuild -ba kernel.spec multiple times some of the code is not rebuild from time to time. Do I need to do something like rpmbuild -ba --rebuild|--recompile kernel.spec instead?
Nov 10 11:25:30 <tekojo> Stskeeps: do you think it would be possible to switch the conference presentations by me and X-Fade & lbt around?
Nov 10 11:31:37 <Stskeeps> tekojo: sec
Nov 10 11:32:26 <tekojo> Stskeeps: we are all in the afternoon on Day 2, and it makes more sense to have my high level view and then look at the details
Nov 10 11:35:51 <kt_> When doing  git clone git://gitorious.org/meego-os-base/kernel-source.git you get the meego kernel patches to the 2.6.35.3 and the kernel.spec files so that you can build the kernel by writing rpmbuild -ba kernel.spec. The actual Linux kernel source code is nowhere to be found - is it downloaded when building the package?
Nov 10 11:36:06 <Stskeeps> srpmss has that
Nov 10 11:39:13 <kt_> ehm, in kernel.spec it says: Source0: ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-%{kversion}.tar.bz2 so i guess it downloads the kernel.
Nov 10 11:39:57 <kt_> I need to change one of the kernel files (a fast hack without having to write a patch)
Nov 10 11:40:03 <Stskeeps> or download it manually
Nov 10 11:41:45 <kt_> Stskeeps, is the kernel.spec script so intelligent that I can write Source0: linux-%{kversion}.tar.bz2 (local version) instead of Source0: ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-%{kversion}.tar.bz2 ?
Nov 10 11:42:25 <lbt> Stskeeps: I'm OK with the switch
Nov 10 11:56:20 <tekojo> here we are
Nov 10 11:56:52 <tekojo> ping lbt X-Fade
Nov 10 11:57:10 <lbt> png
Nov 10 11:57:14 * CosmoHill offers tekojo, lbt, X-Fade and Stskeeps tea
Nov 10 11:57:30 <tekojo> thanks CosmoHill! that is needed, woke at 5:00 local time
Nov 10 11:57:39 <CosmoHill> there's a 5am?
Nov 10 11:57:42 <lbt> tea! Do you think I'm british or something?
Nov 10 11:57:53 <Stskeeps> lbt: i guess you might be partially finnish by now
Nov 10 11:57:54 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 10 11:58:03 <tekojo> anyway npattipati we started looking at the conference schedule and topics
Nov 10 11:58:21 <tekojo> CosmoHill: coming to Oulu means an early wake up
Nov 10 11:58:23 <lbt> kitos Stskeeps
Nov 10 11:58:43 <CosmoHill> tekojo: and then on to frankfurt?
Nov 10 11:59:08 <tekojo> CosmoHill: no, back home to Helsinki in the evening :)
Nov 10 11:59:18 <X-Fade> CosmoHill: Tea was cold when it finally reached me.
Nov 10 11:59:28 <npattipati> tekojo: ok.. any changes ? :)
Nov 10 11:59:34 <CosmoHill> it's an ice tea?
Nov 10 11:59:35 <CosmoHill> >.>
Nov 10 11:59:41 <tekojo> but the presentation topics could do with a bit of clarification :)
Nov 10 11:59:50 <lbt> npattipati: I think tekojo, me+ X-Fade and then you may make a better running order
Nov 10 12:00:00 <tekojo> npattipati: your topic really sounds like it covers a lot
Nov 10 12:00:14 <tekojo> so I was wondering where your focus is
Nov 10 12:00:26 <tekojo> or is it a really high level overview?
Nov 10 12:00:35 <npattipati> tekojo: my focus is app developers.
Nov 10 12:00:58 <tekojo> in general? OSS and commercial or no difference?
Nov 10 12:01:00 <npattipati> tekojo: dev environment for app developers
Nov 10 12:01:14 <npattipati> in general
Nov 10 12:01:22 <lbt> npattipati: so the OBS is crucial ?
Nov 10 12:01:51 <tekojo> so overview of all the tools and places available?
Nov 10 12:01:51 <npattipati> lbt: well... no.. i will just be pointing to the OBS... in one slide.
Nov 10 12:02:42 <tekojo> then it might make most sense to go: npattipati, me, lbt and X-Fade
Nov 10 12:02:55 <npattipati> tekojo: yes.. mostly giving intro to what we have in place for app developers and what are the gaps... and some ideas to better the environment for app developers
Nov 10 12:02:59 <lbt> yes
Nov 10 12:03:33 <CosmoHill> I hope this doesn't turn into my monday's lectures where people's brains are frazzled by the time they get to X-Fade
Nov 10 12:03:55 <lbt> npattipati: we'd also like to emphasis the ease of entry with OBS ... "install osc and run osc build" (for linux users)
Nov 10 12:04:02 <CosmoHill> speaking of presentations I really should finish my own
Nov 10 12:04:39 <tekojo> npattipati: can you look me up in the Nokia phonebook and send a reminder for me to send you my slides?
Nov 10 12:05:27 <npattipati> lbt: sure.. i will mention this point.
Nov 10 12:05:30 <lbt> tekojo: so .... npattipati, you, us    or maybe   you, npattipati, us
Nov 10 12:06:02 <CosmoHill> would you guys mind sticking to the third person, it makes it easier to understand then
Nov 10 12:08:30 <tekojo> lbt: to me it sounds npattipati, me, you
Nov 10 12:11:02 <lbt> that'd work ... I felt yours was the most e2e and goal-oriented... and step 1 in yours is "who writes an app".... which is where npattipati comes in
Nov 10 12:11:22 <lbt> which would be nice if our slide sets blended
Nov 10 12:12:24 <lbt> X-Fade: your opinion ?
Nov 10 12:12:30 <CosmoHill> how bad is it that my desktop can't play a video in a powerpoint?
Nov 10 12:16:23 <lcuk> CosmoHill, it will be worse on april 1st :P
Nov 10 12:27:36 <npattipati> lbt, tekojo : so, will you be communicating the session schedule change?
Nov 10 12:35:12 <tekojo> lbt: sorry, IRL meeting bugged in there
Nov 10 12:35:47 <tekojo> CosmoHill: video in a ppt? what was in that tea...
Nov 10 12:36:10 <CosmoHill> hehe
Nov 10 12:36:37 <CosmoHill> the alternative is that we jump out of the presentation, into movie player and then back into the presentation
Nov 10 12:37:00 <tekojo> CosmoHill: risky, means you plug your own machine to the system
Nov 10 12:37:25 <CosmoHill> the presentation and video can be ran of any computer or usb
Nov 10 12:37:32 <tekojo> but I guess that is the way to do it, or have there been any guidelines to presenters?
Nov 10 12:37:45 <tekojo> oooh, portable technology :)
Nov 10 12:37:49 <CosmoHill> fyi this presentation is for uni
Nov 10 12:38:23 <tekojo> ah, then it isn't so risky, it's only about grades :)
Nov 10 12:39:11 <CosmoHill> damn powerpoint
Nov 10 12:39:19 <CosmoHill> "can't find file C:/users/jonathan etc"
Nov 10 12:39:24 <CosmoHill> maybe cause you're on a mac!
Nov 10 12:40:10 <Termana> CosmoHill, silly boy. You should be on Linux and using OO.o Presentation! Then you wouldn't have silly problems! :p
Nov 10 12:41:23 <Termana> CosmoHill, but I guess you GNU that
Nov 10 12:41:32 <Termana> ;)
Nov 10 12:41:49 <CosmoHill> lol
Nov 10 12:52:03 <niala> hello
Nov 10 12:52:09 <mrcerulean> Hello, all. Any notes on installing the Google Video and Voice plugin? It needs libcrypto...
Nov 10 12:53:30 <lbt> Termana: you mean LO.o Presentation....
Nov 10 12:54:04 <Termana> lbt, :p
Nov 10 12:54:30 <lbt> <sigh> these proprietary people
Nov 10 12:54:47 <Termana> lbt, OF COURSE THAT'S WHAT I MEANT!!111!! You'll have to forgive me, I *COUGH* blame it on the fact that it's late
Nov 10 12:55:08 <lbt> FOSS ? late! never!!!
Nov 10 13:01:47 <pupnik_> !news
Nov 10 13:28:55 <CosmoHill> crap: http://trac.cross-lfs.org/report/1
Nov 10 13:29:10 <MohammadAG51> Stskeeps, why'd you leave #maemo? :P
Nov 10 13:29:39 <Stskeeps> MohammadAG51: place had started to turn toxix/already did
Nov 10 13:31:07 <Stskeeps> toxic, that is
Nov 10 13:31:09 <RST38h> Stskeeps: You are still on t.m.o though?
Nov 10 13:31:42 <Stskeeps> not really
Nov 10 13:31:51 <Stskeeps> post in some few threads
Nov 10 13:31:54 <RST38h> Stskeeps: sic transit, etc =)
Nov 10 13:35:34 <Myrtti> Recently it's become counterproductive really (#maemo)
Nov 10 13:37:38 <RST38h> Myrtti: Not surprising at all
Nov 10 13:38:26 <RST38h> Myrtti: With Nokia developers losing any interest in Maemo, all that is left are lemmings and a really few third party developers
Nov 10 13:39:52 <Myrtti> RST38h: I don't know about their motivation for staying on the channel but judging from the discussions it felt like either everyone is on acid or mushrooms, or is having murderous intents
Nov 10 13:40:37 <RST38h> Myrtti: Scary =)
Nov 10 13:40:42 <Myrtti> I did mention that couple of times, it was getting really hard to follow any meaningful conversation with the S/N ratio
Nov 10 13:41:22 <RST38h> Myrtti: Well, if by "meaningful" you mean "meego/maemo-related", there have not been many topics to discuss lately
Nov 10 13:41:54 <RST38h> Myrtti: I mean, between murderous intents and the endless discussion of how PR1.3 "sucks", I will take murder any time :)
Nov 10 13:41:54 <Myrtti> RST38h: even embedded linux or linux or open source would've sufficed
Nov 10 13:42:41 <RST38h> Myrtti: That's easy to achieve. Wait for Paul Fertser, then ask him why he responds to his phone calls from emacs
Nov 10 13:43:05 <Myrtti> RST38h: why bother, I left the channel few hours before Stskeeps did
Nov 10 13:43:10 <RST38h> Myrtti: Except that FOSS discussion is kinda boring
Nov 10 13:43:46 <RST38h> Myrtti: Dunno, I mainly stay for the people
Nov 10 13:44:11 <Myrtti> I realised the people I valued the most are/were here...
Nov 10 13:44:32 <RST38h> Myrtti: When they go, I go. But as long as people I am interested to speak with stay, I stay
Nov 10 13:45:25 <Myrtti> I've pruned my IRC usage lately anyway
Nov 10 13:45:49 <Myrtti> but to everyone to their tastes
Nov 10 13:45:55 <RST38h> "screen" utility is the answer :)
Nov 10 13:46:22 <RST38h> (I guess the next step is to make a bot to impersonate oneself...)
Nov 10 13:46:41 <Myrtti> RST38h: I've used screen with my irssi since 2003...
Nov 10 13:46:46 <Myrtti> and a bouncer before that
Nov 10 13:47:15 <lcuk> RST38h, you make an arse of yourself often enough people wouldn't notice if you were replaced by a bot :P
Nov 10 13:47:38 <RST38h> lcuk: Oh, I can make a nice, positive bot too :)
Nov 10 13:47:59 <lcuk> \o/
Nov 10 13:48:05 <sivang> #maemo is actually a nice place to be, I got my birthday there on the topic a few days ago :)
Nov 10 13:48:16 <lcuk> :D
Nov 10 13:48:34 <RST38h>  Except that the actual topic of #maemo is...well...Maemo
Nov 10 13:48:39 <Myrtti> sivang: QED - there's no relevant discussion there left
Nov 10 13:48:47 <sivang> and, there are some rather very interesting discussion and true handons stuff going on-
Nov 10 13:48:54 <sivang> you just need to pay attention to this moments.
Nov 10 13:48:58 <Myrtti> "congratulations, you, Sir, have won the Internets!"
Nov 10 13:49:08 <sivang> for developing an app it can be quite a helpful place :-)
Nov 10 13:49:08 <RST38h> "...the end boss was tough!"
Nov 10 13:49:15 <sivang> Myrtti: hehe
Nov 10 13:49:57 <Myrtti> sivang: I did find the discussion of North Korean currency usage in purchasing communist hamburgers and the royalist aspirations of the French republic very interesting...
Nov 10 13:50:00 <Myrtti> yes...
Nov 10 13:50:00 <Myrtti> very.
Nov 10 13:50:22 <RST38h> Me too. Seriously.
Nov 10 13:50:32 <Myrtti> not quite sure how they relate to Maemo, but what the hell
Nov 10 13:50:35 <sivang> Myrtti: I actually found some interesting dicussion about controlling stuff through the dbus api
Nov 10 13:50:39 <RST38h> (and why the hell not)
Nov 10 13:50:45 <sivang> Myrtti: about performance, about opengles etc
Nov 10 13:51:00 <sivang> and , usb host mode ! :-D
Nov 10 13:51:13 <RST38h> Myrtti: Actually, I have to admit that I got more useful help with Qt usage on #maemo than on #meego
Nov 10 13:51:13 <Myrtti> great!
Nov 10 13:51:21 <Myrtti> RST38h: I'm not surprised
Nov 10 13:51:35 <Myrtti> RST38h: then again, I'm not surprised by a lot of things these days
Nov 10 13:51:57 <RST38h> Myrtti: Also tried some qt-specific channel, got a lecture in OO-design there, left unsatisfied :)
Nov 10 13:52:02 <sivang> in meego everybody is busy with the releases and in justice, Maemo is the playground and like more relaxed for people new for the ecosystem so far.
Nov 10 13:52:06 <Myrtti> to most things my initial reaction seems to be "that's nice, dear. Would you like some more tea?"
Nov 10 13:52:27 <sivang> Myrtti: Sri Lankian tea?
Nov 10 13:52:37 <RST38h> (*special* tea?_
Nov 10 13:52:50 <sivang> yeah, all over from Sri Lanka
Nov 10 13:52:52 <leinir> Ah yes, the meego conference early bird sessions... is there a confirmed site for them yet? because the wiki page still says "Yeah, dunno" ;)
Nov 10 13:53:24 <Myrtti> leinir: there was some discussion on the mailing list
Nov 10 13:53:27 <sivang> leinir: I was just going to say that I got infected with your sense of satisfaction, hanging out together and so, finding #maemo a nice place to b.
Nov 10 13:53:50 * sivang digs the MLs
Nov 10 13:54:09 <Myrtti> now if I'd only remember which mailing list
Nov 10 13:54:15 <Myrtti> might have actually been the maemo ones
Nov 10 13:54:40 <sivang> leinir: ballsbridge inn
Nov 10 13:54:57 <sivang> leinir: where the hackspace
Nov 10 13:55:31 <leinir> Right... i'm working, but... wikify it? ;)
Nov 10 13:55:40 <Myrtti> leinir: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-November/004576.html
Nov 10 13:55:57 <sivang> leinir: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/community/63785
Nov 10 13:55:59 <sivang> Myrtti: ah!
Nov 10 13:56:20 <sivang> Myrtti: :)
Nov 10 13:56:38 <leinir> Aah, that'd be the base issue, then, i guess :) Meego conference topics discussed outside meego mailing lists - it'd be kind of nice if that had been at least CCed ;)
Nov 10 13:56:42 <leinir> Thanks! :)
Nov 10 13:57:20 <Myrtti> leinir: I was wondering about that this morning when I read the email chain, myself
Nov 10 13:57:31 <sivang> Myrtti: what would have we done without Maemo? :)
Nov 10 13:57:48 <javispedro> btw, seems that Meego is going to repeat the same issue Maemo has (when the clock application is not in the foreground, it skips refreshing, so the task manager's view of it gets outdated)
Nov 10 13:57:56 <Myrtti> sivang: I'm not questioning maemo, I'm questioning the status quo of the IRC channel
Nov 10 13:58:07 <dwmw2_> javispedro: what bug number?
Nov 10 13:58:24 <lcuk> no javispedro
Nov 10 13:58:29 <sivang> Myrtti: I see, noted.
Nov 10 13:58:41 <lcuk> this time its easier for people to submit patch/mr for it :)
Nov 10 13:58:42 <javispedro> lcuk: what's been done? I still see only one generic focus-out event?
Nov 10 13:58:45 <Jaffa> javispedro: The problem, on Maemo, was that "visible" couldn't easily include "in thumbnail view" :-/
Nov 10 13:59:56 <javispedro> Jaffa: and a recent ML post about "display-off" being the same as the "defocused" event makes me think that is the case in handset too.
Nov 10 14:00:38 <javispedro> most applications will just stop refreshing on the combined defocus/displayoff event.
Nov 10 14:00:47 <javispedro> and so the problem manifests again...
Nov 10 14:00:52 <sivang> javispedro: so when the clock app is showing the time, on task switcher view, it does not get updated as expected in normal linux compositing manager on the desktop?
Nov 10 14:01:37 <borco> hi
Nov 10 14:01:49 <borco> anybody using mad on opensuse?
Nov 10 14:02:03 <javispedro> dwmw2_: can't find at bmo at the moment, sorry.
Nov 10 14:02:29 <javispedro> sivang: the issue here is that desktop apps do not usually stop refreshing when they're out of focus
Nov 10 14:02:45 <javispedro> sivang: while your average Maemo app does, to save cycles / battery.
Nov 10 14:03:12 <sivang> javispedro: IIRC the h-a-m continues, right?
Nov 10 14:03:33 <leinir> It's also one of the things highlighted in the CuteHacks post on building mobile-friendly apps... don't update when you're not active
Nov 10 14:03:46 <javispedro> sivang: what do you mean?
Nov 10 14:03:50 <sivang> javispedro: I did a couple of tests making sure progress is maintained when I step out of the app in task switching
Nov 10 14:03:56 <javispedro> sivang: ah.
Nov 10 14:03:57 <borco> i've installed the meego-sdk with zypper and then meego-handset-ia32-qemu-1.1.20101031.2201-sda-runtime, but when I try to poweron it on, nothing happens. any ideas?
Nov 10 14:03:58 <sivang> javispedro: let me check again, I think some apps do update and some not
Nov 10 14:04:05 <berndhs> leinir:thats nice but basing it on focus is not a great idea
Nov 10 14:04:05 <javispedro> sivang: yes, it's left to the app to decide that.
Nov 10 14:04:24 <sivang> javispedro: so it is just a fix of the app then?
Nov 10 14:04:28 <Jaffa> sivang: For example, Attitude stops on focus-out and display lock
Nov 10 14:04:48 <borco> this is on opensuse 11.3 x86_64. do i need to install the 32bit version of opensuse?
Nov 10 14:04:50 <Jaffa> sivang: But apps can't tell when they're visible in the dashboard, so they just know they're not the main focused app, so stop updating.
Nov 10 14:05:02 <leinir> *nods* Indeed - you can do that for Symbian (because of its strict multitasking system), but on e.g. maemo and meego, that doesn't quite work like that... apps need to keep updating when in /view/, not when they're active... but that's not entirely trivial to figure out.
Nov 10 14:05:34 <leinir> It is, however, something which QtMobility might want to supply information about... centralising that information... seeing as it's something that everybody's going to need ;)
Nov 10 14:05:51 <javispedro> sivang: you could make all the apps keep on redrawing while out of focus, but then for games or other heavy stuff battery would suffer.
Nov 10 14:06:06 <javispedro> btw, what the WebOS does here is what I've suggested sometimes: there's an special event that is roughly equivalent to
Nov 10 14:06:22 <javispedro> "i know you're out of focus, but I need you to redraw RIGHT NOW because I'm going to start the task manager"
Nov 10 14:06:24 <berndhs> right , it would be nice if an app could actually tell if it is visible or not
Nov 10 14:06:37 <leinir> berndhs: *nods* Yeah... :)
Nov 10 14:06:47 <javispedro> their SDL library maps it neatly to a SDL_VIDEOEXPOSE :)
Nov 10 14:07:06 <Jaffa> javispedro: Sounds like an appropriate event name ;-)
Nov 10 14:07:20 <leinir> Actually, i keep thinking that QtMobility is a very ill-named library... Most of the stuff in there is really workspace integration rather than anything particularly mobile-unit specific ;)
Nov 10 14:08:13 <Jaffa> leinir: Indeed. Takes some mental contortions for me to justify it in Netbook
Nov 10 14:08:39 <sivang> I smeel a feature request
Nov 10 14:08:55 <sivang> so , waht we want is to know when we're visible, that would cater for both use cases
Nov 10 14:08:58 <Termana> sivang, what do you use to do that?
Nov 10 14:08:59 <sivang> 1) in task switching
Nov 10 14:09:04 <lcuk> Jaffa, so your net book isn't mobile?
Nov 10 14:09:04 <sivang> Termana: ah! magic
Nov 10 14:09:05 <sivang> :-)
Nov 10 14:09:05 <lcuk> :P
Nov 10 14:09:12 <Jaffa> lcuk: Might not be ;-p
Nov 10 14:09:16 <sivang> Termana: and it is not going to be the first time I used it
Nov 10 14:09:24 <sivang> Termana: bugzilla's futurzilla
Nov 10 14:09:24 <lcuk> yeah my phone sits on the table occasionally too
Nov 10 14:09:39 <Termana> sivang, actually I meant what do you use to smeel
Nov 10 14:09:41 <Termana> :P
Nov 10 14:09:48 <sivang> Termana: HAHA
Nov 10 14:09:52 <sivang> Termana: was a good one
Nov 10 14:09:55 <Jaffa> lcuk: My netbook stays in the house 99.99% of the time. Won't be coming to Dublin either
Nov 10 14:10:55 <Termana> Jaffa, who needs a netbook when you have an N900!
Nov 10 14:10:58 <Termana> :p
Nov 10 14:11:03 <Jaffa> Termana: Something like that ;-)
Nov 10 14:13:02 <RST38h> Termana: There are real, non-Atom subnotebooks that are lighter than some netbooks
Nov 10 14:13:22 <Jaffa> Termana: Actually, my new work laptop's lighter than my netbook - and although it's a shitty Dell with a crappy CPU, it's better than my Aspire One.
Nov 10 14:13:41 <Jaffa> RST38h: The Lenovo X201s looked particularly good; though we've gone for Dell and I've got an E4200
Nov 10 14:13:45 <Termana> RST38h, still, I honestly prefer an N900 over a netbook or even in some cases a laptop
Nov 10 14:13:46 <leinir> my new laptop will, most likely, not arrive in time for dublin... oh well
Nov 10 14:14:09 <Termana> Personally, I just like that fact that I can shove a linux computer in my pocket and be anywhere with it. Its kind of a novelty thing :p
Nov 10 14:14:19 <RST38h> Jaffa: There is MacBook Air, Lenovo X-series, Toshiba R-series, etc
Nov 10 14:14:42 <RST38h> Termana: I do work on my subnotebook. N900 is too small for that, and too slow.
Nov 10 14:15:51 <Jaffa> RST38h: Just read Ars' review of the 11" MBA, and it came across well.
Nov 10 14:15:54 <GAN900> http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010/Flight_Information
Nov 10 14:16:07 <GAN900> If you haven't put your info up. . . .
Nov 10 14:16:16 <GAN900> Jaffa, too bad it's so expensive.
Nov 10 14:16:21 <Stskeeps> did we post it on forums/meego-community/dev yet?
Nov 10 14:16:51 <GAN900> Stskeeps, I haven't.
Nov 10 14:16:54 * Jaffa hasn't seen that on twitter or MLs.
Nov 10 14:17:31 <Jaffa> Now on Twitter ;-)
Nov 10 14:20:24 <leinir> Jaffa: and identi.ca ;)
Nov 10 14:20:54 <Jaffa> GAN900: Stskeeps: Probably could do with some context on standardising order and format (I like the Jaffa/Stskeeps/lm/leinir one)
Nov 10 14:22:53 <Ronksu> Is the flight information just for figuring out if you can share a ride from the airport, or for figuring out where all the missing presenters are? A few words on that might be a good idea.
Nov 10 14:23:05 <Jaffa> Anyone know what the N900 calendar does if you import events which already exist into the same calendar again? (e.g. from Uwe's ICS file)
Nov 10 14:23:21 <thiago> Jaffa: first of all, how did you manage to import a calendar?
Nov 10 14:23:25 <thiago> :-)
Nov 10 14:23:46 <Jaffa> thiago: Click on HTTP link. Calendar opens. Asks which local calendar I want to import into. Imports.
Nov 10 14:23:51 <Jaffa> thiago: No sync, of course :-(
Nov 10 14:23:55 <thiago> interesting
Nov 10 14:23:58 <Stskeeps> Ronksu: well, grouping up isn't a bad idea usually
Nov 10 14:24:09 <RST38h> Jaffa: For me, it created a second event
Nov 10 14:24:13 <Jaffa> If that's DBus exposed, having a "delete all entries and regularly download & import" would be good
Nov 10 14:24:22 <Jaffa> RST38h: So, name of game is delete calendar, recreate & re-import.
Nov 10 14:24:30 <Jaffa> RST38h: I'll confirm your experience first off
Nov 10 14:25:01 <GAN900> Ronksu, always nice to have a group to help make transit easier.
Nov 10 14:26:16 <Ronksu> Stskeeps, GAN900: sure thing. There's bound to always be a few people heading for the conference in the same plane
Nov 10 14:26:28 <Ronksu> just curious if this was for something grander :)
Nov 10 14:26:33 <sivang> Jaffa: so we need an event to know when we're going to be visible ?
Nov 10 14:26:50 <sivang> Jaffa: are we sure there no such support somewhere undocumented already?
Nov 10 14:27:29 <Jaffa> sivang: The problem is that the dashboard is entirely done by the compositor AFAIK, so no Gtk+ events or anything
Nov 10 14:28:12 <lcuk> no toolkit events *
Nov 10 14:28:42 <Jaffa> lcuk: Well, there might've been something X11ey which something could expose
Nov 10 14:28:57 <Jaffa> RST38h: I didn't get duplicated events, just the new early bird ones added.
Nov 10 14:29:26 <sivang> Jaffa, lcuk : but nothing wraps it out for great good?
Nov 10 14:29:49 <lcuk> Myrtti, wtf @ your tweet?
Nov 10 14:30:06 <sivang> this really should come through Qt, there's not much apps in the wild today that run in the absence of a task switcher/ manager
Nov 10 14:30:19 <sivang> or if not mature to go there, into MTF right?
Nov 10 14:30:25 <Jaffa> sivang: I've no idea if there *is* an X11 event...
Nov 10 14:30:32 <Myrtti> lcuk: hm?
Nov 10 14:30:34 <Jaffa> sivang: But agree on it being exposed via Qt
Nov 10 14:30:43 <sivang> Jaffa: oh :o
Nov 10 14:30:49 <sivang> saidinesh: hello there :)
Nov 10 14:30:59 <saidinesh> hey sivang
Nov 10 14:31:00 <saidinesh> hi
Nov 10 14:31:17 <Myrtti> lcuk: haven't you heard, apparently there's a student demonstration going on, the Canonical offices are in the building
Nov 10 14:31:22 <thiago> sivang: there should be X events
Nov 10 14:31:25 <thiago> minimise and maximise
Nov 10 14:31:29 <thiago> focus lost and gained
Nov 10 14:31:47 <Stskeeps> Myrtti: is someone burning down Canonical for going with Unity or something?
Nov 10 14:31:48 <sivang> thiago: I know for sure there are focus lost/gained, but that does not help to "guess" if we're visible or not.
Nov 10 14:32:02 <lcuk> thiago, the conflict here is that an app which listens for all those will get out of sync when its viewed on the dashboard screen
Nov 10 14:32:04 <Myrtti> Stskeeps: has nothing to do with Canonical, it's Canonical employee's inside joke
Nov 10 14:32:07 <lcuk> like the clock not updating etc
Nov 10 14:32:20 <sivang> thiago: I mean, I can be outof focus, still be at the dashboard and need to update
Nov 10 14:32:51 <lcuk> thiago, it was the same on maemo too, noticable for apps which actually do honour those events
Nov 10 14:35:00 <sivang> thiago: so maybe the dashboard supplied a dbus event for that, hackish since it can't probably be standartized for qt
Nov 10 14:35:06 <sivang> *supplies
Nov 10 14:35:16 * thiago is actually wondering what the dashboard is
Nov 10 14:35:41 <sivang> thiago: when you press the task switcher button, in maemo I guess it is hildon-desktop ?
Nov 10 14:35:47 <lcuk> the app overview screen when apps are panned to background
Nov 10 14:35:48 <sivang> thiago: you see all running tasks
Nov 10 14:35:57 <sivang> thiago: all running apps, sorry
Nov 10 14:35:58 <thiago> right, the task switcher
Nov 10 14:36:12 <thiago> then all windows become visible again
Nov 10 14:36:24 <thiago> it's up to WM to do that and the compositor for drawing
Nov 10 14:36:38 <sivang> right, so not really the concern of X
Nov 10 14:36:48 <thiago> right, not of X
Nov 10 14:36:52 <thiago> just the WM and compositor
Nov 10 14:36:56 <sivang> the X event is more lowlevel in my understanding and irrelvant here
Nov 10 14:37:08 <thiago> if it doesn't minimise the windows when they are not shown, then they'll continue painting
Nov 10 14:37:15 <sivang> yep
Nov 10 14:37:43 <sivang> mairas: will you be in dublin?
Nov 10 14:37:46 <sivang> mairas: (hi btw)
Nov 10 14:40:24 <tackat> hi
Nov 10 14:40:36 <tackat> where can I download slide templates for the MeeGo conf?
Nov 10 14:42:10 <sivang> tackat: there are on the conf site, go to your talk
Nov 10 14:42:24 <sivang> tackat: there you have on the left side down, links to download the templates
Nov 10 14:44:28 <tackat> sivang: thanks :)
Nov 10 14:44:41 <sivang> tackat: you are welcome
Nov 10 14:46:23 <mairas> sivang, hi, yes, I'll be in Dublin.
Nov 10 14:48:46 <sivang> mairas: nice, giving a pyside talk with setanta ?
Nov 10 14:49:22 <mairas> notmart, it's setanta's talk
Nov 10 14:50:29 <notmart> mairas: uh?
Nov 10 14:50:34 <mairas> sorry, sivang :-)
Nov 10 14:50:55 <mairas> notmart, I'm as confused as you are
Nov 10 14:58:18 <javispedro> thiago: unfortunately, on a mobile context applications are suggested to stop drawing when they get a focus lost event.
Nov 10 14:58:43 <thiago> which is why that event should be sent
Nov 10 14:58:49 <thiago> failure to send is a problem of the WM
Nov 10 14:58:50 <javispedro> don't ask me why, but someone in Nokia at least thought that having the clock application keep on drawing when it is defocused was a waste of tme :)
Nov 10 14:59:14 <thiago> the WM is a platform tool, therefore the battery consumption resulting from the failure to send the event is a fault of the platform
Nov 10 14:59:28 <javispedro> thiago: oh no, it's not that. the event is sent fine.
Nov 10 14:59:42 <javispedro> thiago: issue is that this means that the compositor view of the application gets outdated
Nov 10 14:59:49 <javispedro> same as if it was minimized on a desktop
Nov 10 15:00:29 <sivang> javispedro: which event is it?
Nov 10 15:00:29 <javispedro> you have a webpage? it's thumbnail won't change, even if there are more news/dynamic tweets/etc
Nov 10 15:00:46 <javispedro> you have clock application? time gets outdated
Nov 10 15:00:57 <sivang> javispedro: then the event is dispatched wrongly. There should be an event for when you are visible or not, and act upon that.
Nov 10 15:01:55 <javispedro> sivang: the event is, from a Qt PoV, "QFocusEvent"
Nov 10 15:02:08 <javispedro> I do not remember the actual X11 event name off hand
Nov 10 15:02:28 <sivang> javispedro: right lost focus is not right here for redrawl pruposes
Nov 10 15:02:51 <sivang> javispedro: it is good for releasing cursors, input field focus etc
Nov 10 15:03:07 <javispedro> so guidelines should suggest not stopping redrawing when you're out of focus, and instead suggest stopping drawing when you get some kind of "lost visibility" event
Nov 10 15:03:22 <javispedro> and the "display-off" event should be mapped to this new event
Nov 10 15:04:01 <javispedro> this would break apps everywhere, so I guess it's too late to fix already :(
Nov 10 15:04:42 <GAN900> Oof
Nov 10 15:04:52 <GAN900> On the same slight as sjgadsby.
Nov 10 15:05:00 <javispedro> oh, seems X11 actually has an existing "visibility" event ( http://tronche.com/gui/x/xlib/events/window-state-change/visibility.html ). I wonder what event does Qt map it to.
Nov 10 15:05:07 <Stskeeps> GAN900: sleigh or flight? :P
Nov 10 15:05:34 <GAN900> Stskeeps, with sjgadsby? It's probably a sleigh.
Nov 10 15:06:21 <Stskeeps> is it just me or is nokia in the press every second day, at least?
Nov 10 15:06:38 <RST38h> Stskeeps: You are reading the wrong news
Nov 10 15:06:59 <GAN900> Stskeeps, still doing worse than Apple.
Nov 10 15:07:04 <RST38h> Stskeeps: In my news, there are 12 people (4 kids) killed by some bandits in south .RU
Nov 10 15:07:43 <GAN900> Bandits?
Nov 10 15:08:05 <RST38h> GAN: Some local mafia, the police is still figuring out details
Nov 10 15:09:16 <lcuk> :S
Nov 10 15:09:39 <Bostik> usually the difference between mafia and police is nothing more than that the mafia do not have badges
Nov 10 15:10:02 <RST38h> No, body counts are smaller for police.
Nov 10 15:10:17 <Bostik> good point
Nov 10 15:10:26 <RST38h> But anyway, it is offtopic, Myrtti will be angry at me
Nov 10 15:13:25 <Stskeeps> NishanthMenon: how's the fedora adventures going?
Nov 10 15:13:36 <NishanthMenon> Stskeeps, it is fun with virtualbox ;)
Nov 10 15:14:17 <NishanthMenon> Stskeeps, fedora is long way different from Redhat 5.1 which I had used last -> but seems to create mic images way better than my ubuntu box ;)
Nov 10 15:14:26 <Stskeeps> hehe
Nov 10 15:15:27 <NishanthMenon> funny though when i tried all available rpms- the opensuse worked out of the box on fedora
Nov 10 15:15:47 <Myrtti> RST38h: want some soup? lovely chicken soup
Nov 10 15:15:50 <Stskeeps> i've spent time building rpms under debian for meego, that was a bad idea.. so many soname differences
Nov 10 15:16:03 <NishanthMenon> yep...
Nov 10 15:16:14 <Stskeeps> at least the qemu-arm is a nice static binary
Nov 10 15:16:15 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 10 15:16:25 * NishanthMenon liked it
Nov 10 15:18:49 * NishanthMenon should try brtfs on panda sometime
Nov 10 15:19:41 <Stskeeps> you'll be in for a whole new set of fun problems :)
Nov 10 15:20:14 <NishanthMenon> Stskeeps, yeah - but I am curious - i'd like to run bonnie++ on ext3, ext4 and brtfs and see if there is any performance diff for MMC cards ;)
Nov 10 15:20:34 <RST38h> Myrtti: wouldn't mind :)
Nov 10 15:20:38 <NishanthMenon> mebbe around the weekend
Nov 10 15:21:14 <Jaffa> GAN900: Stskeeps: leinir:Note structure of http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010/Flight_Information has got a bit nicer and your old entries are invalidated
Nov 10 15:21:30 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: arr.
Nov 10 15:21:43 * Myrtti scoops a bowl of spicy Tom Yum Gai for RST38h 
Nov 10 15:22:03 * leinir edits...
Nov 10 15:22:34 <lcuk> Jaffa, the old list had more info
Nov 10 15:22:42 <lcuk> it actually let you know where people were coming from also
Nov 10 15:22:51 <GAN900> Jaffa, bastard.
Nov 10 15:22:54 <Jaffa> lcuk: Indeed.
Nov 10 15:22:56 <Jaffa> GAN900: Not me.
Nov 10 15:23:03 <Jaffa> GAN900: I just went to have a look, and it'd changed
Nov 10 15:23:27 * GAN900 will fix it at lunch.
Nov 10 15:25:28 <thp> lcuk: you can add this info to the new table as well. the old list made it difficult to spot people coming in at the same time as you :)
Nov 10 15:26:32 <lcuk> thp, sure
Nov 10 15:26:43 <lcuk> the new one is better being ordered by time of course
Nov 10 15:26:57 <lcuk> but for helping to know who is coming from same place/flight  etc
Nov 10 15:27:52 <thp> lcuk: that's what the "Means of transport" columns is for
Nov 10 15:28:17 <thp> the new tables are just copied from the maemo summit 09 wiki page ;)
Nov 10 15:28:21 <Jaffa> lcuk: And if two entries are the same time, and list the same flight number and the same origin, then requirement met, no?
Nov 10 15:28:24 <Termana> thp, you can't escape wiki history
Nov 10 15:28:42 <Termana> If you do something no one likes, we can finger the person who did it!
Nov 10 15:28:45 <lcuk> Jaffa, sure i know, just saying it as I saw it
Nov 10 15:28:47 <Termana> :p
Nov 10 15:39:47 <fiferboy> Whoever fixed the flight information did a good job
Nov 10 15:43:19 <sivang> anybody coming from Heathrow?
Nov 10 15:46:05 <thp> sivang: yes.. on saturday
Nov 10 15:46:45 <sivang> thp: ah , then we might be on the same flight to Dublin
Nov 10 15:47:47 <fiferboy> lcuk: Thanks for defending my original attempt at the flight information :)
Nov 10 15:48:57 <lcuk> fiferboy, thanks for starting the page to actually get the discussion moving in the first place :P
Nov 10 15:52:46 * lcuk should put his flight times on the board
Nov 10 15:52:49 <Mat_Matan> hi
Nov 10 15:53:56 <fiferboy> lcuk: I was noticing your info wasn't there...
Nov 10 15:54:29 <sivang> thp: when are you arriving at Dulbin?
Nov 10 15:54:33 <sivang> thp: or Dublin
Nov 10 15:54:34 <sivang> :)
Nov 10 15:57:11 <lcuk> http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010/Flight_Information
Nov 10 15:57:13 <lcuk> sivang, look
Nov 10 16:04:24 <thp> sivang: did you check the wiki pag?
Nov 10 16:04:27 <thp> "page"
Nov 10 16:04:45 <sivang> thp: yes, I think I am arriving earlier which makes sense only if you arrive with a different airliner
Nov 10 16:12:11 <GAN900> lcuk, clearly we'll need to plan a public transit adventure.
Nov 10 16:13:48 <lcuk> GAN900, as long as the trains have drivers, I am ok with that!
Nov 10 16:14:45 <fiferboy> Speaking of transit, does anyone know the easiest way from the airport to the D4 hotels?
Nov 10 16:15:19 <GAN900> fiferboy, think the conclusions involved a couple of bus changes.
Nov 10 16:15:33 * Stskeeps ponders being lazy and just taking aircoach, to get from A to B.
Nov 10 16:15:41 <Stskeeps> and from B to A in the early of the morning thursday
Nov 10 16:16:30 <GAN900> It was fairly reasonable pricewise, wasn't it?
Nov 10 16:16:46 <Stskeeps> like 14 euro return, as far as i could see
Nov 10 16:16:46 <Jaffa> Yeah, a handful of euro, IIRC
Nov 10 16:16:52 <sivang> GAN900: pricier than bus stops
Nov 10 16:17:06 <sivang> GAN900: which seemed rather easy given dave's instructions
Nov 10 16:17:11 <GAN900> sivang, sure, but less stress.
Nov 10 16:17:42 <lcuk> Stskeeps, your flight out is v early on thursday!
Nov 10 16:18:01 <sivang> GAN900: stress? this is an English speaking country, try to reach the Dev days or the hostel in Munich, that's stress! :)
Nov 10 16:18:37 <GAN900> sivang, handing a Google Maps printout to a cab driver at the airport in BCN worked pretty well.
Nov 10 16:18:44 <Stskeeps> lcuk: only direct flight
Nov 10 16:18:47 <sivang> GAN900: BCN ?
Nov 10 16:18:57 <achipa> sivang: barcelona
Nov 10 16:19:01 <sivang> achipa: ah
Nov 10 16:19:16 <sivang> achipa: barcelona is very easy to get by, and people seem to know where you wanna go without much words
Nov 10 16:21:12 <fiferboy> It's only a 2.5 hour walk from the airport to the hotel...
Nov 10 16:22:10 * fcrozat will use aircoach too ;)
Nov 10 16:22:36 <lcuk> fiferboy, that of course is only true if you walk in the right direction.
Nov 10 16:22:37 <fcrozat> it isn't that expensive, compared to "standard" bus
Nov 10 16:23:07 <fiferboy> lcuk: Very true.  There is no guarantee of that
Nov 10 16:23:39 * lcuk has to find a way to MAN airport at 5am
Nov 10 16:23:58 <rauli> you are frodo and your wallet is the one ring when you enter the metro. keep it secret, keep it safe
Nov 10 16:24:12 <Stskeeps> .. what metro?
Nov 10 16:24:13 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 10 16:24:21 <lcuk> what wallet?
Nov 10 16:24:47 <rauli> this insolence ruins my joke
Nov 10 16:25:55 <Myrtti> talking of rings
Nov 10 16:25:56 <lcuk> .. what joke?
Nov 10 16:26:03 <Myrtti> it's pink and I want it http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8087462/Pink-diamond-expected-to-fetch-24m.html
Nov 10 16:26:18 * Myrtti goes to write a letter to Santa
Nov 10 16:27:22 <sivang> rauli: what metor?
Nov 10 16:27:34 <Myrtti> sivang: what iceberg?
Nov 10 16:27:56 <Myrtti> bad joke-a-rama
Nov 10 16:28:51 <Stskeeps> it's TSG evening today?
Nov 10 16:29:03 <Stskeeps> where does time go..
Nov 10 16:32:08 <lcuk> DawnFoster, n the conference site, there seems to be two ways to access user information
Nov 10 16:32:14 <lcuk> http://conference2010.meego.com/people/dawnfoster
Nov 10 16:32:20 <lcuk> http://conference2010.meego.com/people/stskeeps  etc
Nov 10 16:33:11 <lcuk> but i am not listed under that folder, i am however listed in the attending and stuff as:
Nov 10 16:33:11 <lcuk> http://conference2010.meego.com/user/957
Nov 10 16:33:22 <lcuk> any idea why the difference?
Nov 10 16:34:06 <DawnFoster> lcuk: weird - not sure why. I'm guessing it's a bug somewhere in the user database
Nov 10 16:34:57 <DawnFoster> Stskeeps: as usual, I am *still* finalizing the TSG agenda despite starting the process more than 10 days ago :)
Nov 10 16:37:18 * CosmoHill rages as his finished program no longer compiles
Nov 10 16:40:26 <CosmoHill> damn thing, it works now that I use typedef but it worked for the last 30 mins without it too
Nov 10 16:59:12 <Stskeeps> lbt: seems like rpmlint actually does not barf on com.meego.blah stuff
Nov 10 16:59:45 <sivang> Stskeeps: com.meego is cbuild?
Nov 10 16:59:54 <Stskeeps> sivang: no, just testing out the dotted packagename
Nov 10 17:01:23 <sivang> Stskeeps: :->
Nov 10 17:01:47 <javispedro> dotted package names? Innovating as a distro, I see? :)
Nov 10 17:02:09 <Stskeeps> javispedro: compliance criteria
Nov 10 17:02:11 <sivang> javispedro: yes, like java packages :
Nov 10 17:02:18 <Stskeeps> i thought it was hogwash for a while and it wouldn't wor
Nov 10 17:02:19 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 10 17:02:30 <javispedro> looks good to me.
Nov 10 17:02:46 <javispedro> as long as . is a valid character per rpm spec :)
Nov 10 17:03:02 <Stskeeps> well, our own packaging guidelines state it's not, but rpm doesn't kill itself over it
Nov 10 17:03:28 <sivang> dots are legal chars in unix, so...
Nov 10 17:03:31 <sivang> in unix filenames
Nov 10 17:03:44 <Stskeeps> at least it isn't :/s
Nov 10 17:03:47 <Stskeeps> er, :'s
Nov 10 17:03:53 <X-Fade> Yeah copying those files to windows is going to be fun.
Nov 10 17:03:57 <sivang> Stskeeps: yes, like in git?
Nov 10 17:04:06 <Stskeeps> sivang: obs:P
Nov 10 17:04:10 <sivang> ah right, obs
Nov 10 17:04:22 <javispedro> well, windows only craps itself with filenames starting or ending with a dot
Nov 10 17:04:31 <sivang> I did not decide whicho of them is more confusing
Nov 10 17:05:00 <sivang> :-)
Nov 10 17:05:08 <sivang> but it is onlu a matter of getting used to the tools
Nov 10 17:23:33 <thiago> hmm... intel renamed the Intel C++ Compiler to Intel C++ Composer XE
Nov 10 17:23:34 <_MeeGoBot_> c++ is evil
Nov 10 17:23:50 <Stskeeps> 'composer'?
Nov 10 17:24:06 <leinir> ooook? interesting choice there :)
Nov 10 17:24:07 <thiago> yes
Nov 10 17:24:28 <thiago> "Intel® C++ Composer XE 2011 for Linux* (formerly known as Intel C++ Compiler Professional Edition for Linux)"
Nov 10 17:24:32 <lcuk> dm8tbr, ping
Nov 10 17:25:22 <dm8tbr> lcuk: gaaaah! :(
Nov 10 17:25:58 <Stskeeps> what's wrong with that bot?
Nov 10 17:25:58 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 10 17:26:51 <Stskeeps> moz guys must really dislike c++ :)
Nov 10 17:27:03 <thiago> that's why they built their browser with it
Nov 10 17:30:46 <Bostik> c++ ?
Nov 10 17:31:00 <thiago> no bot
Nov 10 17:31:04 <Bostik> ah, the bot left and I missed that
Nov 10 17:31:34 <Bostik> but if all goes as planned, I'll have the first draft of mobility 1.1 rpm packaging ready tomorrow
Nov 10 17:31:35 <tybollt> ~bitchslap
Nov 10 17:31:46 <Bostik> then just port it to 1.1-release and see what happens
Nov 10 17:34:06 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: ?
Nov 10 17:34:13 * timeless_mbp is about to trigger a panic
Nov 10 17:34:41 <tybollt> timeless_mbp: Don't panic()!
Nov 10 17:35:24 <timeless_mbp> must panic()!
Nov 10 17:39:01 * lcuk calls forth the spirit gods and offers 300ma to resurrect Noobmonk3y
Nov 10 17:39:11 * Noobmonk3y farts
Nov 10 17:39:20 <lcuk> its ALIVE!
Nov 10 17:39:21 * GAN900 may freeze to death in Dublin
Nov 10 17:39:34 <lcuk> GAN900, yes, you likely will
Nov 10 17:39:48 <RST38h> lcuk: now kill it quickly before it has gone out of hand
Nov 10 17:39:50 <Noobmonk3y> brb 2 mins
Nov 10 17:40:52 <GAN900> That's about as cold as it ever gets in the winter here.
Nov 10 17:41:14 <GAN900> It's a good thing we've had a front moving through here over the past week.
Nov 10 17:47:12 <lbt> why can't I see the schedule on http://conference2010.meego.com/
Nov 10 17:47:23 <Stskeeps> program ->
Nov 10 17:47:40 <thiago> http://conference2010.meego.com/program/schedule
Nov 10 17:47:48 <lbt> not good enough :)
Nov 10 17:47:57 <lbt> (serious +ve feedback)
Nov 10 17:48:51 <lbt> nb the page title is "schedule" ... so I scanned the home page for that
Nov 10 17:50:21 <GAN900> Lot of tracks
Nov 10 17:51:22 <Stskeeps> 1000 people :P
Nov 10 17:51:42 <GAN900> Yeah
Nov 10 17:51:47 <Stskeeps> and still we refused a large bunch of presentations
Nov 10 17:51:49 <GAN900> Gonna be a bit overwhelming
Nov 10 17:52:21 <GAN900> Good argument for doing a smaller one in the Spring each year.
Nov 10 17:52:41 <Noobmonk3y> back :)
Nov 10 17:53:58 <lcuk> GAN900, logistically, a couple of smaller ones with specific focus would be good
Nov 10 17:54:06 <GAN900> Yeah
Nov 10 17:54:17 <GAN900> BCN was a really nice format.
Nov 10 17:54:23 * lcuk nods
Nov 10 17:54:42 <lcuk> i have spoke highly of that since the planning stages
Nov 10 17:54:55 <andre__> ...and finally in Dublin I can run into GAN900 :-D
Nov 10 17:55:14 <lcuk> heh
Nov 10 17:55:17 <GAN900> andre__, we're probably not going to see eachother the whole week.
Nov 10 17:55:22 <GAN900> 1000 people and all.
Nov 10 17:56:06 <andre__> I also run into "my" people on Fosdem which has 5000 people. it always works somehow
Nov 10 17:56:28 <lcuk> andre__, thats because you don't watch where you are going :P
Nov 10 17:56:52 <andre__> lcuk: physical violence is part of the concept :-P
Nov 10 17:57:02 <GAN900> Ha
Nov 10 17:57:08 <lcuk> :D
Nov 10 17:57:44 <GAN900> andre__, though there's an argument for organizing a ride to the airport Thursday morning if everything else fails. *g*
Nov 10 17:58:15 <Noobmonk3y> does anyone in here use Nokia QT SDK on windows 7 - and have qtmobility working?
Nov 10 17:58:48 <andre__> hehe
Nov 10 18:00:41 <Jaffa> Noobmonk3y: I've heard other people complain, but not tried it myself yet
Nov 10 18:00:41 <GAN900> Noobmonk3y, there's something flawed in your premise. :P
Nov 10 18:01:16 * lcuk slaps Noobmonk3y, if you were using a real operating system none of this would happen anyway :P
Nov 10 18:01:24 <DrWilken> :)
Nov 10 18:02:41 <GAN900> lcuk, oh the irony. *g*
Nov 10 18:02:51 <Noobmonk3y> lol v true lcuk  ;)
Nov 10 18:03:07 <lcuk> GAN900, shhhh
Nov 10 18:03:08 <Noobmonk3y> Tis really odd, its just as though it is not recognising the qtmobility libraries
Nov 10 18:04:40 <DrWilken> it's probably a *feature*
Nov 10 18:05:04 <Noobmonk3y> lol DrWilken
Nov 10 18:05:09 <DrWilken> stealthy libraries?
Nov 10 18:05:40 <Alison_Chaiken> Thiago, I am a Qt-on-Symbian training as we speak.  The trainers can't answer many audience questions about Qt-on-MeeGo.   Who can I send people to?
Nov 10 18:05:45 <Noobmonk3y> way too stealthy for my liking
Nov 10 18:05:56 <DrWilken> :)
Nov 10 18:06:08 <thiago> Alison_Chaiken: what kind of questions?
Nov 10 18:06:24 <lcuk> Alison_Chaiken, send them to the meego conf :P
Nov 10 18:06:42 <Noobmonk3y> lcuk: :P
Nov 10 18:06:55 <Noobmonk3y> wouldnt the meego forums be a good start?
Nov 10 18:06:58 <DrWilken> Alison_Chaiken: #qt ?
Nov 10 18:07:23 <Noobmonk3y> #qt smells..........
Nov 10 18:07:31 * thiago thinks #meego is a good channel for Qt-on-MeeGo discussions just as #qt is
Nov 10 18:07:45 <lcuk> actually, #qt is very core qt desktop oriented from what i can gather Noobmonk3y :P
Nov 10 18:08:09 <thiago> which is fine for MeeGo netbook
Nov 10 18:08:16 <Alison_Chaiken> thiago, folks have questions about the Ovi store with MeeGo as well as questions about "Can I control the camera using Qt/MeeGo?", etc.
Nov 10 18:08:38 <thiago> it just happens that #qt has existed for many years, long predating the Qt focus on mobile
Nov 10 18:08:45 <lcuk> thiago, so in general is packaging the meego documented in same manner as the windows mac side?
Nov 10 18:09:03 <thiago> Alison_Chaiken: well, there will be MeeGo training, so if those people need MeeGo answers, they need to find that traiining
Nov 10 18:09:09 <lcuk> the syntax is completely wrong there, apologies
Nov 10 18:09:29 <thiago> Alison_Chaiken: as for the ones on Mobility, yes, Mobility will come to MeeGo. Anything that is possible with the Qt API on Symbian should be possible on MeeGo too. Hopefully even better.
Nov 10 18:09:38 <thiago> lcuk: sorry?
Nov 10 18:10:55 <lcuk> thiago, the good guys in #qt are very oriented towards normal desktop side, i get the feeling they would move you on if we started talking specific requirements for even the netbook version
Nov 10 18:11:38 <thiago> they'll need to adapt
Nov 10 18:11:44 <thiago> nothing wrong with having specialised channels though
Nov 10 18:11:58 <thiago> but for a generic one, I don't see anything wrong with bringing new stuff into #qt
Nov 10 18:12:13 <thiago> our stated goal is "Qt Everywhere", so there will be more than just desktop
Nov 10 18:12:15 <DrWilken> How about #qt-mobility ? :)
Nov 10 18:12:19 <thiago> DrWilken: it exists
Nov 10 18:12:23 <DrWilken> I know ;)
Nov 10 18:12:27 <DrWilken> Just tried joining
Nov 10 18:15:29 <javispedro> do you still hate C++, _MeeGoBot_ ?
Nov 10 18:15:34 <dm8tbr> now that hopefully was a) the right config file this time b) cured this particular problem
Nov 10 18:15:45 <dm8tbr> javispedro: I lobotomized that part :)
Nov 10 18:15:57 <javispedro> I heard that the first time too =)
Nov 10 18:16:12 <javispedro> but clearly his hidden Skynet personality will eventually reactivate
Nov 10 18:16:14 <dm8tbr> I spent some time in #meego-test with him
Nov 10 18:16:26 <dm8tbr> to make sure it's really gone
Nov 10 18:16:32 <javispedro> ... as I was saying, who could envision that robot rebellion starts by "I hate C++" in #meego!
Nov 10 18:16:38 <dm8tbr> :D
Nov 10 18:19:56 <sivang> thiago: still thinking how to formulate the feature request for that event, given that X supports a visibility event but its interpretation is somewhat ambigious
Nov 10 18:23:54 * GAN900 spots sivang's session in the schedule.
Nov 10 18:24:00 <thiago> do we have a TSG meeting today?
Nov 10 18:24:17 <Stskeeps> yes, seemingily
Nov 10 18:28:39 <thiago> then I need to go home
Nov 10 18:28:54 <lcuk> thiago, have a good evening, and ta for answer i just got back \o
Nov 10 18:29:03 <DawnFoster> we do have a TSG
Nov 10 18:29:10 <DawnFoster> I'm just finalizing the agenda
Nov 10 18:29:13 * thiago types "meego tsg meeting" in Google and sees an ad for the MeeGo Conf
Nov 10 18:29:19 <DawnFoster> TSG is at 20:00 UTC
Nov 10 18:29:32 <thiago> ah, ok, TSG was adjusted for DST
Nov 10 18:29:36 <DawnFoster> to make it at the normal time after factoring daylight savings
Nov 10 18:29:40 <thiago> I have slightly more time
Nov 10 18:29:40 <DawnFoster> exactly
Nov 10 18:30:05 <thiago> it moves the meeting 1 or 2 hours for people in the Southern Hemisphere though :-)
Nov 10 18:30:26 <CosmoHill> lcuk: http://forums.kustompcs.co.uk/showthread.php?p=480159&posted=1#post480159
Nov 10 18:30:45 <v-pv> DawnFoster: I happen to have couple of nomination proposals to TSG. do you think that those would still fit in?
Nov 10 18:30:50 <v-pv> http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-11-09-14.31.html
Nov 10 18:31:27 <DawnFoster> v-pv: I think it's too late now.
Nov 10 18:31:42 <v-pv> Yep, I though so
Nov 10 18:31:46 <DawnFoster> v-pv: Imad / Valtteri need time in advance to review them
Nov 10 18:32:04 <v-pv> Please take those into account for the nest one, ok?
Nov 10 18:32:07 <DawnFoster> We'll put them as tentative for Dec 1 TSG
Nov 10 18:32:40 <v-pv> definetly, Valtteri and Imad knows the situation. This has just not been agenda :-(
Nov 10 18:33:01 <DawnFoster> v-pv: you need to email me all of the details - your minutes are missing things like last names, exact roles :)
Nov 10 18:33:04 <v-pv> that's fine with me
Nov 10 18:33:29 * Stskeeps grabs a glass of wine - time to write slides!
Nov 10 18:33:36 <v-pv> Yep, I'll do that...
Nov 10 18:34:19 <v-pv> You will get those tomorrow...
Nov 10 18:34:57 <v-pv> Stskeeps: great idea... I'll do the same.
Nov 10 18:54:40 <veli> \o/ We have SDK: http://meego.com/community/blogs/veli/2010/meego-1.1-sdk-beta-release
Nov 10 18:54:57 <leinir> wooh! \o/
Nov 10 18:56:38 <MannyNS> veli: excellent.
Nov 10 18:59:08 <MannyNS> veli: does the SDK support ia32 platforms only?
Nov 10 19:00:11 <veli> it supports arm target too.
Nov 10 19:00:25 <veli> but we don't have qemu-arm now..
Nov 10 19:00:42 <veli> DUIhome is crashing so we needed to postpone that.
Nov 10 19:01:03 <Stskeeps> well, you can deploy to a n900 if you have one and compile for meego arm i'd guess?
Nov 10 19:01:09 <veli> But you can compile for arm and run it in n900 running meego image.
Nov 10 19:01:21 <Stskeeps> ah, question answered :)
Nov 10 19:01:23 <veli> :)
Nov 10 19:01:56 <MannyNS> any plans for Meego supporting other architectures except arm and ia32?
Nov 10 19:02:34 <Stskeeps> MannyNS: well, noone else has done a port to anything else so far. i just spent a week porting to ARM hardfp, so i know what to advise people with
Nov 10 19:03:23 <Stskeeps> which is roughly along the lines of "find the sanest person you have and expect to have to deliver him to a mental institution afterwards when the porting is done
Nov 10 19:03:26 <Stskeeps> "
Nov 10 19:03:28 <Stskeeps> ;)
Nov 10 19:04:00 <MannyNS> wow
Nov 10 19:04:18 <lbt> dl9pf_: done
Nov 10 19:04:23 <MannyNS> :)
Nov 10 19:04:24 <RST38h> Stskeeps: YOu mean, Meego port is supposed to include MMS? =)
Nov 10 19:04:40 <Myrtti> Stskeeps: ah, that explains the pink elephants you've been complaining about
Nov 10 19:04:48 <Myrtti> and the head twitching
Nov 10 19:05:04 <lbt> Myrtti: nah, that was fremantle
Nov 10 19:05:38 <Myrtti> omg, I just found Joe Hisaishi on Spotify
Nov 10 19:05:48 <Myrtti> ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
Nov 10 19:06:09 <slonopotamus> -.-
Nov 10 19:06:13 <javispedro> Stskeeps: so, if mental hospitalization is for those that want to port it to a new (sub)architecture, then purgatory must be for those than want to port it to a new architecture...
Nov 10 19:06:24 <javispedro> and hell for those that want to port it to a BIG ENDIAN architecture!!
Nov 10 19:06:40 <Stskeeps> javispedro: i couldn't reuse -any- arm binaries :P
Nov 10 19:07:02 <javispedro> :)
Nov 10 19:07:09 <dl9pf_> lbt: tnx
Nov 10 19:07:57 <lardman|home> ah, /me remembers the wonders of the Octave endianness checks using arrangement of fp numbers
Nov 10 19:09:21 <MannyNS> so, hell seems to be my new place
Nov 10 19:10:00 <javispedro> MannyNS: PPC?
Nov 10 19:10:09 <MannyNS> no, try again
Nov 10 19:12:41 <Myrtti> slonopotamus: what? good music is good music, theme music from Nausicaä makes me shiver
Nov 10 19:12:49 <javispedro> MannyNS: do tell? :D
Nov 10 19:17:20 <slonopotamus> Myrtti: i doubt mp3s of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausicaa are available currently...
Nov 10 19:18:17 <Myrtti> slonopotamus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausica%C3%A4_of_the_Valley_of_the_Wind_(film)
Nov 10 19:18:22 <slonopotamus> :P
Nov 10 19:18:24 <javispedro> MannyNS: either way, it must be doable. I'm just remembering the problems I had with amd64 a few months ago :)
Nov 10 19:18:44 <javispedro> (and ofc amd64 is LE, only long/pointer size changes)
Nov 10 19:19:01 <thiago_home> LP64
Nov 10 19:19:12 <javispedro> s/LE/LittleEndian
Nov 10 19:19:13 <Stskeeps> MannyNS: MIPS?
Nov 10 19:19:14 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 10 19:22:11 * thiago_home wonders about MeeGo for MIPS
Nov 10 19:23:11 <Stskeeps> according to some, some of them do have capable enough gfx
Nov 10 19:23:23 <thiago_home> I've seen some with PowerVR
Nov 10 19:25:38 <javispedro> btw, wall plugs on ireland?
Nov 10 19:26:07 <Stskeeps> oh dear, i need to prep that
Nov 10 19:26:23 <javispedro> me too...
Nov 10 19:26:25 <Stskeeps> it's UK style isn't it?
Nov 10 19:26:30 <thiago_home> yes, UK style
Nov 10 19:26:49 <thiago_home> Trolltech power plug adapters were part of the gift bag during Akademy 2006 in Dublin
Nov 10 19:26:57 <javispedro> heh.
Nov 10 19:27:02 <thiago_home> best gift ever
Nov 10 19:27:36 <thiago_home> even though they are lethal
Nov 10 19:27:50 <javispedro> 220V 50Hz at least?
Nov 10 19:28:50 <javispedro> hum.. seems so.
Nov 10 19:32:21 * fiferboy thinks about taking the Qt Certification exam
Nov 10 19:34:13 <DawnFoster> The TSG starts in about 30 minutes in #meego-meeting
Nov 10 19:34:24 <DawnFoster> Agenda here: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings
Nov 10 19:34:54 <DawnFoster> nothing like finalizing the agenda an hour before the meeting - like herding cats :)
Nov 10 19:36:58 <javispedro> today I saw a nice comic on the door of a professor I know, a conveyor belt with a big crushing machine on its end, with the word "DEADLINE" written on it.
Nov 10 19:37:08 <javispedro> :)
Nov 10 19:37:34 <DawnFoster> javispedro: that is exactly how I feel today :)
Nov 10 19:37:49 <DawnFoster> between the TSG and all of the last minute conference prep ...
Nov 10 19:38:15 <javispedro> :D
Nov 10 19:48:00 <sivang> GAN900: :)
Nov 10 19:50:51 <sivang> so, looks like I'm gonna be able to attend TSG
Nov 10 19:51:00 <sivang> that takes place in 15 minutes from now?
Nov 10 19:51:13 <Stskeeps> right
Nov 10 19:51:55 <sivang> great, although I still have that project I need to submit... bah :)
Nov 10 19:52:26 <Stskeeps> it's usually good for observing
Nov 10 19:52:55 <sivang> Stskeeps: do you know if the SDK needs SSSE3 to do meego arm development?
Nov 10 19:53:00 * sivang is hunted with SSSE3
Nov 10 19:53:25 * javispedro bought an intel cpu for these reasons not long ago...
Nov 10 19:53:27 <Stskeeps> sivang: unsure
Nov 10 19:53:44 <sivang> javispedro: I have intel, just without SSSE3
Nov 10 19:53:47 <sivang> :/
Nov 10 19:53:57 <sivang> javispedro: I wonder if P4 from 2004 supports that
Nov 10 19:54:36 <sivang> Hmm I See qt training offered by KDAB people on Sunday in Dublin
Nov 10 19:54:42 <javispedro> dunno, I was an amd guy :)
Nov 10 19:54:52 * sivang tries to recall if he noted that on the agenda
Nov 10 19:56:57 <sivang> yes, it is there, funny how I Never spotted it and found it through linked in.
Nov 10 20:00:14 <Stskeeps> auke: what do we define as our rpm upstream? whatever fedora has?
Nov 10 20:00:26 <auke> nothing
Nov 10 20:00:32 <auke> we don't have an upstream
Nov 10 20:00:44 * auke smacks Stskeeps for asking that
Nov 10 20:00:57 <slaine> So we use the MeeGo version of rpm
Nov 10 20:00:58 <Stskeeps> i'm not talking about if we base off anything
Nov 10 20:01:06 <Stskeeps> i'm talking about 'rpm', the program :)
Nov 10 20:01:12 <auke> oh
Nov 10 20:01:25 <Stskeeps> cos we're obviously not on rpm5
Nov 10 20:01:33 <auke> no, at this point we're maintaining a stable version of rpm4 ourselves
Nov 10 20:02:04 <auke> obviously we'll take patches from other distro's, but we can't really say we're taking a version from some other distro
Nov 10 20:02:13 <qgil> We just had the MeeGo 1.1 SDK Beta release and apparently is confusing some people vs Nokia Qt SDK
Nov 10 20:02:29 <fandeli> I've set this http://pastebin.ca/1987491 to use my proxy server in fennec, but it seems not working, am I missing some other config? I appreciate any help
Nov 10 20:02:30 <auke> in what way?
Nov 10 20:02:42 <Stskeeps> reason i'm asking is because we'll need to add some rpmrc changes for the hardfp work (like 4-5 lines), so it matters in terms of upstream-first, hence me asking :)
Nov 10 20:02:56 <qgil> Both SDKs are the same in terms of architecture, it's a matter of branding, targets predefined and testing against MeeGo releases vs Nokia products
Nov 10 20:03:08 <auke> Stskeeps: I see
Nov 10 20:03:44 <auke> Stskeeps: can't give a clear cut answer on that, hardfp is probably very meego-specific
Nov 10 20:03:58 <Stskeeps> we'll basically be adding 'armv7hl' as an arch, so
Nov 10 20:04:16 <auke> ok so
Nov 10 20:04:18 <csdb> auke, Stskeeps, actually the rpm thing is a good point. I've had problems trying to use meego gened rpms in openSUSE.
Nov 10 20:04:19 <sivang> qgil: that what I had assumed, given it looks the same like the other sdk, but why can't it just bee Nokia QT sdk, that can target MeeGo ?
Nov 10 20:04:24 <auke> I see we have very little patches to rpm
Nov 10 20:04:35 <auke> so, upstream first would be good
Nov 10 20:04:38 <thiago_home> hl?
Nov 10 20:04:39 <Stskeeps> :nod:
Nov 10 20:04:42 <thiago_home> replacing the e?
Nov 10 20:05:00 <csdb> afaik each rpm version has its own quirks so it should at least be said Meego uses rpm version NN (which btw FC 13 also uses...) or something like that
Nov 10 20:05:10 <Stskeeps> thiago_home: in rpm, armv7l is the name for it .. armv7el is some thing OBS uses
Nov 10 20:05:26 <thiago_home> ah, ok
Nov 10 20:05:28 <slaine> Isn't rpmrc already meego specific for the ssse3 stuff ?
Nov 10 20:05:32 <auke> csdb: meego rpm's (meego packages) are not meant to be compatible with other distros at all
Nov 10 20:05:54 <sivang> qgil: I mean, to be compatible with previous releases, but if there's a wish to differentiate it makes sense
Nov 10 20:05:57 <Stskeeps> slaine: well i guess in terms of optimizations
Nov 10 20:06:00 <auke> the internal format of the rpm file matters less than things like dependencies etc.
Nov 10 20:06:08 <csdb> auke, but does the rpm spec have global version #s? Common across SuSE, Redhat and all other rpm-using distros?
Nov 10 20:06:14 <DawnFoster> reminds qgil to join #meego-meeting for TSG :)
Nov 10 20:06:15 <thiago_home> well, isn't there an LSB spec for rpms?
Nov 10 20:06:18 <slaine> Stskeeps: which is what your talking about no ?
Nov 10 20:06:18 <csdb> I mean for the format of the rpm itself
Nov 10 20:06:33 <auke> rpm4 format is stable since forever
Nov 10 20:06:37 <slaine> yay, I'm around for a TSG for the first time in ages
Nov 10 20:08:22 <Stskeeps> auke: i think i'll weigh it with the fedora arm and opensuse arm guys wrt naming.. i think they are the only ones in the 'arm rpm' field
Nov 10 20:08:23 <csdb> auke, rpm4 has been around but if I recall SuSE is 4.7 and FC is 4.8 (or something like that) and I know I had problems doing a simple "rpm -qilp " on a MeeGo gened rpm from SuSE.
Nov 10 20:09:19 <thiago_home> Stskeeps: are you in contact with anyone inside Nokia on that hardfp bootstrapping?
Nov 10 20:09:52 <Stskeeps> thiago_home: i have a working meego hardfp buildroot now that can compile python and perl, at least
Nov 10 20:09:55 <Stskeeps> sec
Nov 10 20:10:15 <thiago_home> I heard today that there are people in Nokia wokring on this
Nov 10 20:10:21 <thiago_home> I just want to make sure you guys are in touch
Nov 10 20:10:37 <Stskeeps> thiago_home: well, at least at last toolchain meeting nothing had been bootstrapped
Nov 10 20:11:08 <javispedro> gles in desktop, surprised.
Nov 10 20:11:26 <thiago_home> netbook
Nov 10 20:11:28 <javispedro> ofc mesa-based drivers won't have a problem with it..
Nov 10 20:11:39 <thiago_home> well, the thing is that the libraries have different sonames
Nov 10 20:11:52 <thiago_home> so applications (and Qt, in particular) can only link to one of them, not both
Nov 10 20:12:25 <thiago_home> since GLESv2 is largely a subset of GL2, this isn't that big a problem
Nov 10 20:12:26 <Stskeeps> thiago_home: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/meego-hardfp/files/ is what's bootstrapped so far.. we're (me, dl9pf_ from LF) are working to get OBS building started using these
Nov 10 20:12:39 <csdb> auke, Ok, I take that back. I just tried it from openSUSE and it seems to work (at least with sampling of 1). But I'm pretty sure I've had problems in the past. Though I'll leave it at that since I have no proof atm
Nov 10 20:12:42 <thiago_home> the GLESv2 functionality not present in GL2 can be easily emulated (or so I'm told)
Nov 10 20:13:17 <javispedro> possibly
Nov 10 20:13:31 <javispedro> but ..
Nov 10 20:13:41 <javispedro> GL2 still contains all of GL1 :)
Nov 10 20:14:22 <thiago_home> which is the issue
Nov 10 20:14:24 <thiago_home> GLESv2 doesn't
Nov 10 20:14:26 <javispedro> so quite a chunk of functionality that is still teached at schools goes missing
Nov 10 20:14:39 <thiago_home> people shouldn't use GL1. They should use GL2.
Nov 10 20:15:32 <leinir> javispedro: Yup - forget ever having heard about the fixed function pipeline, it no longer exists ;)
Nov 10 20:16:11 * javispedro is not entirely against such a thing, but much of the possible "Porting" appeal of netbook is lost
Nov 10 20:16:39 <leinir> we had a whole lot of fun with that in gluon... our old graphics engine was all fixed function... so it was ripped out and redone from scratch... and also made the whole thing super-neato and way more extensible in the process, but that's a different matter of course :)
Nov 10 20:17:27 <javispedro> btw, if the issue is qt not being able to link with both at once..
Nov 10 20:17:44 <javispedro> SDL does. It just dlopens the required one based on a setup call.
Nov 10 20:17:54 <javispedro> and then sets itself up to use the appropiate functions.
Nov 10 20:18:17 <javispedro> so it can seamlessly switch between gles1 and gles2 for example.
Nov 10 20:18:57 <javispedro> so it effectively leaves it up to the application to decide which want to use.
Nov 10 20:19:08 <thiago_home> javispedro: Qt could dlopen
Nov 10 20:19:15 <thiago_home> we don't want to because it doesn't solve the problem of the apps
Nov 10 20:20:45 <javispedro> what you mean? apps should link with none at all if they don't use a GL function, and link with the one they want if they use it.
Nov 10 20:21:17 <thiago_home> which one do they want if they use GL?
Nov 10 20:21:28 <javispedro> depends on "what" GL
Nov 10 20:21:36 <thiago_home> remember, these apps are built once and they must run on all hardware
Nov 10 20:21:43 <thiago_home> so which one should they link to?
Nov 10 20:22:22 <lcuk> sdl obviously :P
Nov 10 20:22:24 <javispedro> I would be assuming you keep the "Meego netbook" has GL2+GLES2 definition.
Nov 10 20:22:51 <thiago_home> with the change to the spec, netbooks must support GLES2 now
Nov 10 20:22:58 <Stskeeps> javispedro: mesa + drivers should be able to use it..
Nov 10 20:23:10 <thiago_home> in turn that simplifies the question: if the app wants to run everywhere, it must link to GLES2
Nov 10 20:23:14 <javispedro> in which case (GL2+GLES2), if they want GL2, they link with -lGL, they want want GLES2, lGLES2
Nov 10 20:23:23 <veli> with dlopen one could also change underlaying other backends.. Or the user could do that. Install e.g. google maps backend but the apps would still use the same api.
Nov 10 20:23:36 <thiago_home> google maps?
Nov 10 20:23:40 <javispedro> so it's not a library issue, but rather that you want to simplify the spec so that GLES2 devices only are acceptable :)
Nov 10 20:23:42 * thiago_home wonders what veli is talking about
Nov 10 20:23:59 <javispedro> s/GLES2 devices only/only GLES2 devices
Nov 10 20:24:01 <thiago_home> javispedro: devices with GLES2, or those with drivers that can emulate it
Nov 10 20:24:02 <RST38h> javispedro:Isn't GLES2 completely differentfromGLES1?
Nov 10 20:24:15 <RST38h> not a subset or superset but a whole different animal?
Nov 10 20:24:20 <thiago_home> GLEs2 is largely a subset of GL2
Nov 10 20:24:25 <javispedro> RST38h: it is completely different, but that's another story.
Nov 10 20:25:15 <javispedro> so, to recap, the idea is to allow devices that only support GLES2 to be Meego netbook capable.
Nov 10 20:25:25 <javispedro> then yes, dropping GL entirely is the only sane option.
Nov 10 20:26:03 <javispedro> thanks for the explanation :)
Nov 10 20:26:13 <thiago_home> the problem at hand is that apps and Qt must link to something (the same thing) and there's only one build
Nov 10 20:26:19 <thiago_home> we tried to make two builds, but it was too hard
Nov 10 20:27:01 <thiago_home> since GLESv2 is present in most verticals and netbooks can emulate GLES, it's not hard
Nov 10 20:27:17 <thiago_home> the next problem is what happens if an app linked to libGL also links to Qt
Nov 10 20:27:21 <javispedro> well, if there's a Meego netbook device without GL2, then it's stupid to allow GL2.
Nov 10 20:27:51 <javispedro> but if there isn't...
Nov 10 20:27:52 <veli> thiago_home: well now you link against certain backends. With dlopen we could provide the possibility for user to change to a different backend.. Maybe some company would like to do a commercial backend for some service but still be able to use the same apps.
Nov 10 20:27:59 <javispedro> basically, let the app link with the one it wants.
Nov 10 20:28:05 <thiago_home> javispedro: Lenovo IdeaPads have GL1...
Nov 10 20:28:05 <javispedro> Qt doesn't link with any single one.
Nov 10 20:28:12 <thiago_home> GMA3150
Nov 10 20:28:26 <thiago_home> veli: this is OpenGL we're talking about
Nov 10 20:28:29 <javispedro> It just dlopens the one the application linked with based on a ) heuristic b ) explicity function call
Nov 10 20:28:36 <thiago_home> it's not a backend. It's a front-end API that apps link to as well.
Nov 10 20:29:04 <RST38h> javispedro: How about having a GLES1 compat layer on top of GLES2 and relying on GLES1 entirely?
Nov 10 20:29:13 <javispedro> *GLES2
Nov 10 20:29:18 <thiago_home> RST38h: GLES1 is completely different and should die...
Nov 10 20:29:40 <javispedro> thiago_home: say goodbye to all of my dreams of getting EA to port a game to Meego.
Nov 10 20:29:42 <spoussa> thiago_home: +1
Nov 10 20:29:42 <RST38h> I know that it is different. I do not understand why it should die though
Nov 10 20:29:56 <veli> thiago_home: true.. but dlopen came up. ;)
Nov 10 20:29:59 <thiago_home> javispedro: it needs to be fixed, I agree
Nov 10 20:30:01 <RST38h> GLES1 is way closer to proper GL than GLES2
Nov 10 20:30:11 <thiago_home> javispedro: in my vision, libGL links to libGLESv2
Nov 10 20:30:21 <thiago_home> javispedro: since it is an almost perfect superset anyway
Nov 10 20:30:23 <javispedro> oh, a bit scary.
Nov 10 20:30:29 <javispedro> what?
Nov 10 20:30:36 <javispedro> well.
Nov 10 20:30:42 <thiago_home> GL2 almost perfect superset of GLESv2
Nov 10 20:30:43 <RST38h> is it a superset?
Nov 10 20:30:47 <RST38h> ah ok
Nov 10 20:30:55 <thiago_home> not completely. GL4 is a superset of GLESv4
Nov 10 20:30:55 <RST38h> and GL1 is a superset of GLES1
Nov 10 20:31:04 <javispedro> well...
Nov 10 20:31:18 <thiago_home> apparently GLESv2 has stuff that GL2 doesn't. But it's not to hard to emulate
Nov 10 20:31:18 <javispedro> nothing of these assumptions is 100% true, but it is rare functionality either way
Nov 10 20:31:21 <thiago_home> or so I'm told...
Nov 10 20:31:42 * javispedro at least agrees with the move to EGL..
Nov 10 20:32:44 <Summeli> I think that the problem (usually) with GL2 vs GLES2 "emulation" is how you are using the shaders
Nov 10 20:33:04 <Summeli> the GPUs in PC world had quite much more power than the ones on mobile devices
Nov 10 20:33:41 <thiago_home> indeed
Nov 10 20:34:04 <thiago_home> in any case, Qt only needs the common subset of both
Nov 10 20:34:13 <thiago_home> so if there were a libGLcommon.so, we'd use that
Nov 10 20:34:24 <javispedro> dlopen! :)
Nov 10 20:35:20 <thiago_home> can't dlopen because it depends on what the app is linking to
Nov 10 20:35:24 <thiago_home> we can't guess that
Nov 10 20:35:28 <javispedro> oh, you can
Nov 10 20:35:30 <javispedro> glGetVersion
Nov 10 20:36:12 <javispedro> or just check for the presence of some symbols (ie make libGL define I_AM_GL and libGLES2 I_AM_GLES2)
Nov 10 20:36:19 <thiago_home> you can't call that before you dlopen
Nov 10 20:36:22 <thiago_home> you must dlopen first
Nov 10 20:36:26 <RST38h> noooooo
Nov 10 20:36:35 <thiago_home> the point is: what should it dlopen?
Nov 10 20:36:43 <DawnFoster> lbt: hmm, I think I've heard this question before :)
Nov 10 20:36:54 <lbt> point me to the answer ;)
Nov 10 20:37:00 <RST38h> it should dlopen them in succession and check each for version
Nov 10 20:37:12 <RST38h> (good luck doing it on a mobile device)
Nov 10 20:37:56 <thiago_home> which is again why we don't want to do it
Nov 10 20:38:02 <RST38h> Or, better, create an abstraction layer library that lets Qt use either
Nov 10 20:38:06 <javispedro> no, just the glGetVersion of the current loaded one
Nov 10 20:38:17 <RST38h> And ship the right version of the layer library with each platform
Nov 10 20:38:22 <thiago_home> RST38h: that's what we came up with when I talked to Linaro
Nov 10 20:38:33 <RST38h> thiago: and that is probably the least evil
Nov 10 20:38:37 <thiago_home> javispedro: there isn't one loaded before you dlopen
Nov 10 20:38:43 <thiago_home> RST38h: indeed
Nov 10 20:38:50 <javispedro> thiago_home: not in RTLD_DEFAULT?
Nov 10 20:39:14 <thiago_home> javispedro: hmm... had forgotten about that feature
Nov 10 20:40:20 <javispedro> but even then, there's no need to that; SDL has a function that basically boils down to SDL_UseThisGLLibrary(GL|GLES1|GLES2)
Nov 10 20:40:38 <thiago_home> and if you don't tell it?
Nov 10 20:40:38 <javispedro> (ofc that breaks API...)
Nov 10 20:41:36 <javispedro> thiago_home: "sane" default. I understand that might break existing Qt applications...
Nov 10 20:41:41 <RST38h> ...and that is why Qt should use SDL as its backend
Nov 10 20:41:51 <javispedro> (but then dropping libGL also might...)
Nov 10 20:41:51 * RST38h urgently looks for a tree to climb
Nov 10 20:42:11 <javispedro> RST38h: the community port of Qt to WebOS used SDL as backend afaiu =)
Nov 10 20:42:20 <thiago_home> RST38h: don't worry
Nov 10 20:42:27 <thiago_home> the standard answer now is "nice, send a patch" :-)
Nov 10 20:42:34 <javispedro> :)
Nov 10 20:42:39 <RST38h> javispedro: Hell, WebOS does not offer that many opportunities, it is either JS or SDL
Nov 10 20:42:43 <thiago_home> doesn't webos use Qt?
Nov 10 20:42:50 <javispedro> 2.0 does
Nov 10 20:43:01 <thiago_home> where did you find that info?
Nov 10 20:43:03 <javispedro> this is pre-2 efforts by cowboy coders..
Nov 10 20:43:12 <RST38h> javispedro: And I do not wanna see Qt with Javascript as backend...
Nov 10 20:43:48 <javispedro> thiago_home: rom image; not me, webosinternals guys.
Nov 10 20:44:19 <thiago_home> RST38h: that reminds me of an April 1st joke that never got off the ground
Nov 10 20:44:33 <thiago_home> we wanted it last year, "Qt 5.0 to have JavaScript as its main language"
Nov 10 20:44:54 <javispedro> heh
Nov 10 20:44:55 <RST38h> thiago: Is that a joke though?
Nov 10 20:45:06 <RST38h> With QtQuick/Qml thing being based on JS...
Nov 10 20:45:07 <thiago_home> but then the marketing guys had prepared this huge effort into the "qtoverload.com" idea
Nov 10 20:45:15 <thiago_home> this year, it was too close to the truth...
Nov 10 20:45:23 <slaine> Has the topic of linking against some external lib been covered, i.e. the idea say of utilizing some utility app from the Ovi store
Nov 10 20:45:46 <slaine> and the question of compliance there in
Nov 10 20:45:54 <Stskeeps> thiago_home: am discussing some things with fedora arm guys.. how are we on thumb usage?
Nov 10 20:46:31 <thiago_home> Stskeeps: we're not using it
Nov 10 20:46:33 <RST38h> slaine: The way I understood things, you can have external dependencies in community repos
Nov 10 20:46:38 <thiago_home> but Thumb2 should be good
Nov 10 20:46:51 <slaine> RST38h: but can your app be meego compliant
Nov 10 20:46:54 <RST38h> slaine: The self containment requirement is for Ovi store only
Nov 10 20:47:03 <Jaffa> slaine: No dependencies on non-official packages in third party packages.
Nov 10 20:47:10 <Jaffa> slaine: If you want compliance.
Nov 10 20:47:20 <RST38h> slaine: I do not know,and do not care much, as long as I am able to distribute it to the users
Nov 10 20:47:25 <slaine> good, that makes sense
Nov 10 20:47:40 * thiago_home agrees to that for the community repo
Nov 10 20:47:44 <Jaffa> RST38h: You don't know if most users will be using devices which only allow compliant apps
Nov 10 20:48:19 <RST38h> Jaffa: If that happens to be the case, I will consider wrapping stuff into one huge binary blob
Nov 10 20:48:35 <thiago_home> andyross: yes, POSIX and STL API should be allowed
Nov 10 20:48:43 <thiago_home> it's basically "a given"
Nov 10 20:48:46 <Jaffa> Us lot with unsubsidised stuff might be able to do anything, but less useful if to "compete" with iOS/Android, most devices get locked into "compliance" to reduce the QA requirements for accepting packages
Nov 10 20:48:53 <javispedro> and Qt, I guess :)
Nov 10 20:48:54 <thiago_home> we can even standardise on glibc API, since we don't allow other libc
Nov 10 20:49:19 <Jaffa> RST38h: Yeah, a few 100MB apps will change any such policy PDQ, IMHO
Nov 10 20:49:23 <RST38h> Jaffa:Basically, as I am probably going to charge for apps on Meego, I will just ship them as standalone blobs
Nov 10 20:49:35 <RST38h> Jaffa: Not my responsibility to worry about.
Nov 10 20:49:36 <lbt> if there was a subtle...! == "I have a question" then DawnFoster would be able to call on people in order and there wouldn't be the "is it quiet yet?......mmmmmm...... DAMN someone beat me" syndrome that leads to early questions and DawnFoster having to moan at them making them feel like idiots...
Nov 10 20:49:42 <andyross> thiago_home: Yeah.  But it seems like if we're splitting out a core API and specifying "everything else" as the "platform API" we need to be sticky about what "obvious" ones get left out
Nov 10 20:49:43 <javispedro> Jaffa: have you checked out the average app size on other platforms? ;)
Nov 10 20:50:00 <javispedro> Jaffa: hint: those preenv users quickly ran out of /opt space ;)
Nov 10 20:50:08 <thiago_home> andyross: in the interest of time, I propose you send Mats a lits of obvious stuff left out
Nov 10 20:50:09 <RST38h> Jaffa: Let Intel/Nokia guys hit this problem head-on and solve it
Nov 10 20:50:17 <thiago_home> and no, X11 is not left out by accident.
Nov 10 20:50:24 <javispedro> heh.
Nov 10 20:50:26 <andyross> Fair enough.
Nov 10 20:50:53 <thiago_home> wayland...
Nov 10 20:51:05 <lbt> Jaffa: "I think there will be a way to describe this (suggestions welcome), first cut is intentionally restrictive"
Nov 10 20:51:07 <andyross> Yeah, that's what I assumed :)
Nov 10 20:51:52 <andyross> The GLX question was more that there's a *ton* of software that already binds to it, and (last time I checked) pretty poor support for EGL on top of GLX in Mesa.  Which sounds like a teething problem.
Nov 10 20:52:46 <thiago_home> I wish some of our graphics guys were coming to Dublin
Nov 10 20:52:47 <lcuk> :)
Nov 10 20:52:53 <thiago_home> they'd be able to discuss this and come up with a solution
Nov 10 20:53:42 <Stskeeps> mwichmann: you're coming to dublin too?
Nov 10 20:53:54 <RST38h> BTW, is anyone at all trying to insure that the standard Unix/X11/Gtk/Qt apps still run onMeego?
Nov 10 20:54:17 <Stskeeps> RST38h: yes, if normal x11 apps break, so does qt.
Nov 10 20:54:17 <Stskeeps> :P
Nov 10 20:54:25 <thiago_home> mwichmann: suggest you create an unconference proposal for  next week
Nov 10 20:54:34 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Not necessarily, depends on what qt uses for backend =)
Nov 10 20:54:50 <thiago_home> the Qt for X11 port obviously uses X11
Nov 10 20:54:59 <DawnFoster> lcuk: there is a session: http://conference2010.meego.com/session/app-compatibility-and-meego-compliance-program
Nov 10 20:55:08 <thiago_home> MeeGo 1.x is using that port, so X11 is kind-of guaranteed to be there
Nov 10 20:55:14 <lcuk> DawnFoster, ++++
Nov 10 20:55:15 <lcuk> :)
Nov 10 20:56:14 <mwichmann> Stskeeps: I wasn't given permission to travel, so I won't be there unfortunately
Nov 10 20:57:16 <mwichmann> skarpness is taking over the talk
Nov 10 20:57:21 <Stskeeps> mwichmann: ah, ok - regarding the ARM thing i think the specific support needed (ARMv7, EABI, VFPv3) is actually good to have there (for 1.1)
Nov 10 20:57:23 <mwichmann> maybe he can do other stuff on compliance
Nov 10 20:57:40 <Stskeeps> because it won't run on ARMv6, OABI, hardfp ;)
Nov 10 20:58:14 <thiago_home> OABI? who uses that?
Nov 10 20:58:30 <Stskeeps> noone, just an example of why it's important to note what is compliant :)
Nov 10 20:58:47 <thiago_home> VFPv3-D32 then
Nov 10 20:59:18 <Stskeeps> yeah, it should say VFPv3-D32, not only VFPv3
Nov 10 20:59:39 <javispedro> yeah, unfortunate name decision on gcc's part :)
Nov 10 21:00:12 <javispedro> this item should be put on a FAQ, sounds like a bit of obscure knowledge.
Nov 10 21:00:47 <thiago_home> don't forget to add little-endian too then
Nov 10 21:01:31 <Stskeeps> man, ARM is complicated..
Nov 10 21:02:30 <MannyNS> Stskeeps: yes, you were right
Nov 10 21:02:46 <Stskeeps> MannyNS: join gbraad then
Nov 10 21:04:02 <MannyNS> what is the Meego policy of adding new architecture to Meego base?
Nov 10 21:04:41 <slaine> bspencer: could I run a Fedora VM and have the meego sdk hosted in that ?
Nov 10 21:04:50 <slaine> i.e. will qemu run in a vm
Nov 10 21:04:56 <slaine> haha, edgecase
Nov 10 21:05:06 <Stskeeps> MannyNS: get it working, submit patches, take responsibility and QA personell
Nov 10 21:05:24 <bspencer> slaine: so you can run Linux in the VM on top of Windows and then run QEMU in Linux VM ?
Nov 10 21:05:30 <Stskeeps> MannyNS: and in the end approved by TSG
Nov 10 21:05:32 <bspencer> I like it :)
Nov 10 21:05:34 <bspencer> no idea.
Nov 10 21:06:17 <slaine> lol, well, more thinking of running VirtualBox version of Fedora 13/14 on my mac and installing the MeeGo SDK in that
Nov 10 21:06:22 <thiago_home> emulate ARM inside an emulated Linux?
Nov 10 21:06:28 <thiago_home> slaine: why do you want a Linux VM in the first place?
Nov 10 21:06:42 <mwichmann> speaking from /experience/, two layers of VM is... painful :)
Nov 10 21:06:44 <lcuk> thiago_home, some people use linux inside vmware
Nov 10 21:06:45 <slaine> 'cause there's no SDK on Mac OS X
Nov 10 21:06:49 <bspencer> slaine: right.  I understand when you don't have countless PCs around to load things on.
Nov 10 21:06:49 <lcuk> from windows
Nov 10 21:06:57 <thiago_home> lcuk: they do, but that's because they want to run Linux apps
Nov 10 21:07:10 <thiago_home> but why do we need to provide an SDK VM?
Nov 10 21:07:11 <slaine> exactly
Nov 10 21:07:12 <RST38h> lcuk: and it is usually painful
Nov 10 21:07:17 <lcuk> RST38h, sure
Nov 10 21:07:40 * thiago_home points out that he uses Mandriva and wants to run the SDK too
Nov 10 21:08:16 <slaine> thiago_home: we don't, but there's no packaged up method for Mac OS X like there is for Linux or will be for Windows (though bspencer said they intend to look at this next year)
Nov 10 21:08:17 <RST38h> As it is all Linux, what is the problem with making SDK work on different distros?
Nov 10 21:08:42 <thiago_home> slaine: there's way to package stuff for Mac :-)
Nov 10 21:08:59 <thiago_home> RST38h: it's not the Linux way, but it's possible
Nov 10 21:09:04 <thiago_home> the Qt and Nokia Qt SDK do it
Nov 10 21:09:20 <RST38h> And thatis probably how it should be
Nov 10 21:09:48 <thiago_home> besides the IDE, there's very little left that needs to be compiled
Nov 10 21:09:54 <slaine> thiago_home: indeed, and possibly someday soon, the "SDK" will be available
Nov 10 21:09:56 <thiago_home> well, the cross-compiler...
Nov 10 21:10:20 <bspencer> slaine:  RST38h :   btw, MeeGo supports full Qt 4.7 .  so if you application is cnostrained to just Qt 4.7 you can develop the majority of it using Qt for Mac or Qt for Wnidows, without the MeeGo SDK
Nov 10 21:10:22 <slaine> at the moment it's not and I'm too busy to futz about trying to make qemu work for me
Nov 10 21:10:25 <mwichmann> there's a port of rpm to macos :)
Nov 10 21:10:29 <andyross> slaine: The OpenGL acceleration transport is a custom thing, and tied to qemu/kvm (caveat: I was last looking at the SDK work two months ago and haven't kept up).  It's non-trivial to get it working with another VM.
Nov 10 21:10:30 <bspencer> but eventually you will need to build it with MeeGo toolchain
Nov 10 21:10:49 <slaine> indeed
Nov 10 21:11:05 <thiago_home> bspencer: are you in touch with our Berlin team?
Nov 10 21:11:07 <slaine> I'll be targeting netbook like platforms, so it's not as big a deal for me
Nov 10 21:11:12 <thiago_home> the team that does the current Qt SDK?
Nov 10 21:11:17 <Stecchino> anyone here tried to visualize gestures for video demo purposes?
Nov 10 21:11:17 <Stecchino> Not sure of it's possible but I was thinking of creating a eventFilter on the main widget that would drag a finger on top and other images for the gestures
Nov 10 21:11:17 <thiago_home> they have a way to do Mac
Nov 10 21:11:21 <andyross> Or if you have a little cash in your budget, there are handset images that run on Pine Trail netbooks.
Nov 10 21:11:26 <javispedro> andyross: you could it linked with VirtualBox's GL acceleration (it's basically Chrome GL)?
Nov 10 21:11:30 <javispedro> *get
Nov 10 21:11:32 <thiago_home> give them a cross-compiler and the sysroot, they have the rest
Nov 10 21:11:53 <javispedro> err... s/Chrome/Chromium GL
Nov 10 21:12:48 <slaine> Anyway, it's not the thing that's been holding me back anyway, just lack of time
Nov 10 21:12:56 <Stecchino> thiago_home: scheduling sigh: http://conference2010.meego.com/program/schedule
Nov 10 21:13:16 <thiago_home> bspencer: btw, didn't see you last week so I could say good bye. Did you enjoy the event?
Nov 10 21:13:16 <Stecchino> You would be sooo welcome in the BoF session
Nov 10 21:13:17 <andyross> javispedro: Haven't looked at that one.  We were looking at this same issue about the time bspencer's folks started working on their solutions.  Is the VirtualBox thing robust?
Nov 10 21:13:23 <thiago_home> Stecchino: explain?
Nov 10 21:13:32 <Stecchino> http://conference2010.meego.com/session/bof-developing-meego-interface-your-desktop-app
Nov 10 21:13:53 <Stecchino> frank as well
Nov 10 21:14:04 <javispedro> andyross: unfortunately I'm ot a heavy vbox user... but Sun/Oracle sells it, it must at least work I guess :D
Nov 10 21:14:11 <lcuk> Noobmonk3y,
Nov 10 21:14:23 <lcuk> kathy wanting the knitting counter is cool
Nov 10 21:14:33 <lcuk> i know someone else who knits too :P
Nov 10 21:15:12 <Noobmonk3y> lol
Nov 10 21:15:26 <Noobmonk3y> the healthcheck project was started as a qt qui app, i can start a new qtmobility app, and it works
Nov 10 21:15:38 <Noobmonk3y> meh, might as well start again, again, again
Nov 10 21:16:27 <lcuk> heh
Nov 10 21:16:45 * lcuk has heard of a few projects being started directly with qtmobility functionality
Nov 10 21:16:52 <lcuk> lots of folks are happy with what it provides
Nov 10 21:17:17 <Noobmonk3y> yup, so gonna start it, and hopefully it will ease my Maemo specific issues as the systeminfo call will do half of what i want
Nov 10 21:17:36 <lcuk> yeah
Nov 10 21:18:53 <DawnFoster> lbt - you still here?
Nov 10 21:19:05 <lbt> do I ever leave :)
Nov 10 21:19:30 <DawnFoster> not really :)
Nov 10 21:19:56 <sivang> lcuk: she explained to me the idea, I wanted to do it- but got tied up with stuff :/ I liked it as well :)
Nov 10 21:20:02 <DawnFoster> I wanted to tell you that I've tried your hand raising idea before MeeGo and it has more issues than what we use now
Nov 10 21:20:17 <DawnFoster> what usually happens is several people raise their hand
Nov 10 21:20:24 <Jaffa> javispedro: Oracle sells their DB too. Doesn't make it good.
Nov 10 21:20:28 <DawnFoster> several of them have the exact same or similar questions
Nov 10 21:20:46 <DawnFoster> or other people's questions become obsolete by the time you get to them
Nov 10 21:21:01 <javispedro> Jaffa: hehe
Nov 10 21:21:13 <DawnFoster> so, you spend a lot of time sorting out that people don't have questions any more
Nov 10 21:21:18 <tybollt> oracle is slowly but securely comitting harakiri :)
Nov 10 21:21:20 <DawnFoster> and it takes a lot more time
Nov 10 21:21:28 <DawnFoster> lbt: make sense?
Nov 10 21:21:28 <tybollt> no sane bussiness will stick w/ mysql
Nov 10 21:21:38 <lbt> it does
Nov 10 21:21:45 <DawnFoster> it's also hard to track over IRC (put point of failure on 1 person - me)
Nov 10 21:21:59 <lbt> but I know that it's hard to spot a pause vs a finish
Nov 10 21:22:02 <DawnFoster> I know what we have isn't perfect
Nov 10 21:22:08 <lcuk> I am going to take a placard to the meego conference with "QUESTION:" on it
Nov 10 21:22:11 <RST38h> there are logs
Nov 10 21:22:19 <lbt> see bspencer's nice <end announcement>
Nov 10 21:22:29 <lbt> or just
Nov 10 21:22:30 <lbt> .
Nov 10 21:22:52 <lbt> if we "allow"  a ! then that's OK , as you call their name they say "answered - thanks"
Nov 10 21:23:11 <lbt> I know I feel annoyed when someone pips me and it feels unfair
Nov 10 21:23:30 <lbt> I don't like you having to tell me to shut up (it can feel very dismissive)
Nov 10 21:23:48 <lbt> which honestly makes me not want to bother
Nov 10 21:23:54 <Stskeeps> well, the alternative is a queue/moderator like we had before
Nov 10 21:24:00 <Stskeeps> which is less fluent/inclusive
Nov 10 21:24:18 <lbt> well, I thought through the ! thing
Nov 10 21:24:25 <DawnFoster> part of the problem is that we always have more questions than we can answer in the time allowed
Nov 10 21:24:37 <lbt> it's how the real-world works
Nov 10 21:24:45 <lcuk> agreed in a way, but where theres obvious interest in a topic, we could find a way to go back at the end or extend the topic slightly
Nov 10 21:24:48 <lbt> I agree... nothing is perfect
Nov 10 21:25:07 <lbt> heh .... I was offering something constructive though...
Nov 10 21:25:20 <DawnFoster> lbt: and I do apprciate it
Nov 10 21:25:21 <lbt> if you feel it's not useful I won't be offended
Nov 10 21:25:32 <DawnFoster> which is why I wanted to have this conversation
Nov 10 21:25:52 <lbt> I would ask that speakers are primed to say "."
Nov 10 21:25:56 <lcuk> why can't we allow people to ? anyway?
Nov 10 21:25:59 <lbt> especially the slow typers
Nov 10 21:26:02 <lcuk> DawnFoster, you know it might happen
Nov 10 21:26:09 <lbt> who type 23 lines in utter silence
Nov 10 21:26:11 <lcuk> if people want to QUESTION: immediately, cool
Nov 10 21:26:16 <lbt> and then hit return
Nov 10 21:26:23 <lbt> making us thing... "are they dead"?
Nov 10 21:26:57 <DawnFoster> lcuk: for very large meetings, it's generally good practice to let people finish their update and take questions at the end
Nov 10 21:27:04 <javispedro> yet more reason to meet in Jabber conference rooms =)
Nov 10 21:27:15 <javispedro> (where typing notifications are part of the protocol ;) )
Nov 10 21:27:24 <Stskeeps> another possibility.. someone taking on himself to work questions into a nice questions sheet and any presenter should be obligated to answer within 48 hours after a TSG meeting
Nov 10 21:27:28 <lbt> totally agree... the "." is a way of saying "I'm done"
Nov 10 21:27:43 <Stskeeps> that way we have a flow and a nice 'Q&A' blog series
Nov 10 21:27:48 <DawnFoster> lbt: I really like that idea (or something like it)
Nov 10 21:28:05 <DawnFoster> maybe we can update the http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings/Instructions_for_presenters
Nov 10 21:28:10 <lbt> also... maybe prime attendees on the wonders of cut'n'paste for announcers
Nov 10 21:28:20 <lbt> rather than have them retype ;)
Nov 10 21:28:23 <Stskeeps> lbt: it seems like many have learnt to prep with copy-n-paste
Nov 10 21:28:26 <DawnFoster> with some better tips for indicating that they are done.
Nov 10 21:28:39 <DawnFoster> lbt: I've been working with people on that :)
Nov 10 21:28:41 <lbt> Stskeeps: :P ... oh yeah ... probably using an apple
Nov 10 21:28:47 <DawnFoster> bspencer: seemed to be in good shape
Nov 10 21:28:54 <lbt> he was great
Nov 10 21:29:04 <DawnFoster> poor mwichmann got pulled into this 1.5 hours before the tsg
Nov 10 21:29:06 <lcuk> Stskeeps, lbt, pasting is mentioned explicitly
Nov 10 21:29:14 <lbt> noticed that
Nov 10 21:29:16 <DawnFoster> to cover for mark who wouldn't make it
Nov 10 21:29:17 <lcuk> "have a text file with some key points that you can paste into IRC to get you started when introducing the topic. "
Nov 10 21:29:29 <DawnFoster> he did fantastic on short notice :)
Nov 10 21:29:31 <thiago_home> or type really fast
Nov 10 21:29:51 <DawnFoster> I use the text file / cut and paste approach
Nov 10 21:29:52 <lbt> thiago_home: irc... the best typing tutor in the world
Nov 10 21:29:59 <DawnFoster> makes the meetings much easier for me
Nov 10 21:30:11 <timakima> by the way, are the presented slides going to be available from the meego conference website later?
Nov 10 21:30:14 <lbt> *nod* ... I have been known to
Nov 10 21:30:34 <GAN900> lbt, or worst. ;)
Nov 10 21:30:48 * thiago_home needs to prepare his presentation for next week
Nov 10 21:30:50 <lbt> nb... we're quietly allowing users onto the community OBS now
Nov 10 21:30:52 <GAN900> DawnFoster, TextExpander is nice.
Nov 10 21:31:03 <thiago_home> I'll steal from the Dev Days keynotes :-)
Nov 10 21:31:08 <lbt> "by request" ... just so you know...
Nov 10 21:31:32 <DawnFoster> GAN900: ooooh, nice. I'm going to look at that
Nov 10 21:32:16 <lcuk> grrr lbt \@/
Nov 10 21:32:31 <lbt> lcuk: ?
Nov 10 21:32:41 <lcuk> your interesting topic allowed me to be so distracted a whole tina turner youtube video played
Nov 10 21:32:54 <DawnFoster> thiago_home: yeah, me too - I have 2 presentations that I haven't finished
Nov 10 21:33:08 <DawnFoster> luckily i've done similar ones I can steal from
Nov 10 21:34:09 * slaine is really looking forward to next week
Nov 10 21:34:17 <lcuk> has dneary offered up his extremely informative presentation hints and tips this year
Nov 10 21:34:20 <thiago_home> me too
Nov 10 21:34:26 * Stskeeps got cute-ish business cards with his meegon on
Nov 10 21:34:38 <dneary> lcuk, No
Nov 10 21:34:47 <lcuk> dneary, still got the slide notes?
Nov 10 21:35:53 <thiago_home> note to self: check that I have enough business cards
Nov 10 21:36:02 <thiago_home> almost ran out of after dev days
Nov 10 21:36:33 <dneary> lcuk, Yeah. http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2009/10/10/giving-great-presentations-speaker-notes/
Nov 10 21:36:57 <dneary> thiago_home, Andrea's a bit shy about emailing people he doesn't know yet
Nov 10 21:37:08 <lcuk> dneary, :) great stuff, and evenbetter for people to read them BEFORE they arrive ;)
Nov 10 21:37:12 <dneary> thiago_home, Do you think you could do me a favour?
Nov 10 21:37:29 <dneary> lcuk, Feel free to post a link :) I don't want to be selling myself
Nov 10 21:37:44 <thiago_home> dneary: name it
Nov 10 21:38:52 <lcuk> dneary, you just posted the link yourself.  but the advice in there is something lots of nervous people could read over, especially if its the first time presenting
Nov 10 21:39:29 <dneary> thiago_home, we don't know how many people with Qt knowledge will be there to help out on Sunday afternoon for the hands-on session
Nov 10 21:39:48 <thiago_home> crap, forgot to find who from our team will be there
Nov 10 21:39:55 * thiago_home checks his ticket
Nov 10 21:40:16 <dneary> thiago_home, Basically, we would like half a dozen "lab assistants" to help people with problems doing some coding projects that Kevin Ottens will be setting
Nov 10 21:40:29 <lcuk> i am going to be in town on sunday, but I am not signed up for any of the earlybird events, do I have to signup officially or just turnup?
Nov 10 21:40:50 <thiago_home> dneary: arrival 12:35
Nov 10 21:40:56 <dneary> Link to people who've signed up is here: http://conference2010.meego.com/program/early-bird-events/attendees
Nov 10 21:40:59 <thiago_home> I think that's the flight many of us will be taking
Nov 10 21:41:04 <dneary> thiago_home, We start ~2pm
Nov 10 21:41:16 <dneary> Should be just enough time to get there
Nov 10 21:41:23 <thiago_home> dneary: I don't know if I can find you a dozen
Nov 10 21:41:36 <dneary> half a dozen :)
Nov 10 21:41:45 <dneary> 4-6 would be ideal
Nov 10 21:43:34 <thiago_home> dneary: whoever is flying with me, I'll bring along
Nov 10 21:43:41 <thiago_home> that's what I can do for you
Nov 10 21:43:45 <thiago_home> at the stadium?
Nov 10 21:43:47 <dneary> thiago_home, Thanks!
Nov 10 21:44:00 <dneary> thiago_home, It's the hotel
Nov 10 21:44:13 <thiago_home> ok, even better
Nov 10 21:44:38 <dneary> The D4 Ballsbridge Inn (also known as Jury's Inn)
Nov 10 21:44:50 <dneary> Night
Nov 10 21:44:58 <thiago_home> I'm in D4 something
Nov 10 21:45:21 <bspencer> how to update that link dneary  ?  ( http://conference2010.meego.com/program/early-bird-events/attendees )
Nov 10 21:45:28 * bspencer feels incompetent
Nov 10 21:45:38 <dneary> bspencer, Sign up to the early bird events
Nov 10 21:46:07 <dneary> bspencer, In your account
Nov 10 21:46:12 <dneary> "Edit profile"
Nov 10 21:46:53 <DawnFoster> I think that registration was closed for everything when we hit 1000
Nov 10 21:47:03 <bspencer> yeah.  np
Nov 10 21:47:20 <bspencer> I didn't see it listed... but I'm on the agenda :)
Nov 10 21:47:30 <thiago_home> presenting?
Nov 10 21:47:44 <bspencer> thiago_home:  on ARM development.  My specialty  <sarc>
Nov 10 21:48:09 <thiago_home> bspencer: we'll get Qualcomm and ST-E folks to talk about Intel then
Nov 10 21:48:28 <bspencer> thiago_home: excellent.  Now we've got the entertainment in place.
Nov 10 21:48:44 <thiago_home> I wonder what MIPS people will talk about
Nov 10 21:48:47 <thiago_home> probably PowerPC
Nov 10 21:52:21 <KaffeeJunky123> Is the current meego handset release ready for real world use on a Nokia N900?
Nov 10 21:52:41 <Stskeeps> i'd go with no
Nov 10 21:53:07 <veli> one can ping localhost!
Nov 10 21:53:17 <Stskeeps> and make phonecalls, under some conditions
Nov 10 21:53:42 <veli> also install hello worlds from sdk! \o/
Nov 10 21:53:46 <thiago_home> but only use the speaker
Nov 10 21:55:17 <veli> Stskeeps: we made a roaming call in London! \o/
Nov 10 21:55:21 <KaffeeJunky123> so it's still in a developers toy state
Nov 10 21:55:52 <KaffeeJunky123> I guess I'll get a nice sd card to dual boot it =)
Nov 10 21:58:41 * thiago_home saw a MeeGo handset call in London
Nov 10 21:58:49 <thiago_home> I wonder if it's the same veli saw
Nov 10 22:06:38 <sivang> thiago_home: I'd really like to iron out a feature request for the app visibility lost event, have you had any more thoughts about it?
Nov 10 22:07:30 <thiago_home> not my particular area of expertise
Nov 10 22:07:36 <thiago_home> talk to ddenis tomorrow
Nov 10 22:07:58 <sivang> thiago_home: is here here usually ?
Nov 10 22:08:20 <sivang> *he
Nov 10 22:08:29 <thiago_home> no, #qt-labs
Nov 10 22:09:17 <sivang> thiago_home: okay, will do thanks.
Nov 10 22:10:03 <sivang> veli: nice :)
Nov 10 23:04:03 * qgil finally put http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Marketing/Materials/Slides in place
Nov 10 23:05:44 <pupnik> apt-get install firmware-iwlwifi
Nov 10 23:05:44 <pupnik> modprobe -r iwlagn
Nov 10 23:05:44 <pupnik> modprobe iwlagn
Nov 10 23:05:49 <pupnik> oops sorry
Nov 10 23:08:05 <qgil> pupnik: are you expecting an output from the collective intelligence in this room?  :)
Nov 10 23:08:29 <BManojlovic> FATAL: Module iwlagn not found.
Nov 10 23:08:30 <BManojlovic> :)
Nov 10 23:08:51 <Myrtti> E_NOTINTELLIGENT
Nov 10 23:08:53 <qgil> :D
Nov 10 23:10:00 <Myrtti> guru meditating
Nov 10 23:10:18 <Myrtti> jebus, did I really spend an hour pruning my browser cookies?
Nov 10 23:10:42 <qgil> yum yum cookies
Nov 10 23:11:01 <Myrtti> and still my gmail has a bug :-<
Nov 10 23:11:06 <Myrtti> what a waste of time
Nov 10 23:11:27 * Myrtti kicks off her pink furry slipper boots and goes to bed
Nov 10 23:16:59 <CosmoHill> :D
Nov 10 23:21:04 <sivang> Myrtti: you have pink furry boots?
Nov 10 23:21:13 <sivang> Myrtti: You're cooler than I thought
Nov 10 23:22:06 <sivang> qgil: are you like on Pacific time now?
Nov 10 23:23:01 <qgil> sivang: yes
Nov 10 23:23:13 <sivang> qgil: ah, left Helsinki for good?
Nov 10 23:23:27 <qgil> sivang: since the end of June  :)
Nov 10 23:24:19 <sivang> qgil: yeah, I saw something about it but was afraid to properly ask :)
Nov 10 23:24:21 <lbt> ldap sync is a step closer :)
Nov 10 23:24:36 <sivang> lbt: is this related to buteo?
Nov 10 23:24:44 <lbt> not afaik
Nov 10 23:24:55 <qgil> lbt let me guess... OBS?
Nov 10 23:24:59 <sivang> well, it's not syncml for sue
Nov 10 23:25:01 <lbt> :)
Nov 10 23:25:05 <sivang> ah :)
Nov 10 23:25:14 <sivang> so not related to device sync with ldap
Nov 10 23:25:19 <lbt> qgil: we're open for business... but not shouting about it yet
Nov 10 23:25:19 <sivang> although this could be interesting
Nov 10 23:25:33 <lbt> we have a few users now... they just ask me and I add them
Nov 10 23:25:41 <qgil> sivang: I'm sure lbt has instructions to install your own OBS in your device
Nov 10 23:25:48 <sivang> qgil: heh
Nov 10 23:26:01 <sivang> lbt: I wonder if the new SDK can ease rpmization before upload
Nov 10 23:26:04 <qgil> lbt: cool and very welcome
Nov 10 23:26:29 <lbt> too hard a slog ... but we're there... not as much horsepower as we'd like ... but that's being fixed
Nov 10 23:26:35 <qgil> sivang: the new SDK is in need of real MeeGo app developers
Nov 10 23:27:56 <sivang> qgil: it will get those, when some of them finish previous committments  like preparing conf slides, submitting some other work unrelated, sleeping, packing :)
Nov 10 23:28:24 <qgil> sivang: I think I feel your pain
Nov 10 23:29:17 <CosmoHill> cyas x
Nov 10 23:31:30 * lbt stumbles off to bed...   o/
Nov 10 23:32:43 <sivang> qgil: I wouldn't mind to drop over commitments pretaining to the project alone, but I have so many others outside of it, so I could live with the "pain", but the fact I can'\t dedicate full attention to it is a big part of it (the pain). But thanks for sharing :)
Nov 10 23:33:50 <sivang> anyway, body signals it'd a good time to go to bed.
Nov 10 23:34:02 <sivang> good night
Nov 10 23:34:09 <qgil> sivang: first things first - the rest can wait - don't open a new box until an old box is closed --- the theory is easy  ;)
Nov 10 23:34:41 <sivang> qgil: true, true. theory always is :-p
Nov 10 23:35:00 <sivang> qgil: g'night
Nov 10 23:35:13 <qgil> sivang: nite
Nov 10 23:35:17 <GAN900> Packing, oof.
Nov 10 23:35:29 <GAN900> I need to find some climate appropriate clothing.
Nov 10 23:36:06 * villev should be sleeping as well... got stuck coding
Nov 10 23:36:24 <villev> btw, it appears we have now all the sdk goodies neatly packaged for ubuntu
Nov 10 23:36:45 <villev> (as everybody here knows already)
Nov 11 00:20:22 <auke> bubye folks, going mobile for 2 weeks
Nov 11 01:35:20 <kaiex> hi. trying n900 meego dual boot. on startup, it stalls at "gemerating rsa ssh key". waited 10 minutes, no progress. but n900 has not crashed, after pressing power button it does a shutdown
Nov 11 01:35:36 <kaiex> do I need to wait longer?
Nov 11 01:41:37 <kaiex> i use instructions from http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/Dual_Boot
Nov 11 01:42:29 <pupnik> hi kaiex
Nov 11 01:42:51 <pupnik> you might find someone who knows in #meego-arm
Nov 11 01:43:23 <kaiex> pupnik thank you
Nov 11 01:43:47 <pupnik> and a few folks are still awake in #maemo
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