**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 20 02:59:57 2010
Nov 20 05:59:27 <rhkfin> Tormis: tried with 7l-n900-1.1.80.0.20101001.1-vmlinuz-2.6.35.3-8.5-n900
Nov 20 05:59:32 <rhkfin> no success
Nov 20 06:02:50 <rhkfin> Any ideas why kernel won't find the root image from mmc no N900? Tried two separate images, with and without U while starting.
Nov 20 06:03:15 <rhkfin> Followed these instructions: mwiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC
Nov 20 06:47:20 <Kubuntiac> Anyone know if you can actually buy the WeTab in North America yet?
Nov 20 07:10:00 <Kubuntiac> Just found a YouTube video of some handsome looking hacker at the Meego conference...
Nov 20 07:10:13 <Kubuntiac> showing off Koffice on the WeTab :P
Nov 20 07:10:41 <Kubuntiac> oops... wrong channel >.<
Nov 20 08:43:32 <thiago_home> meego ML admins around?
Nov 20 08:43:36 <thiago_home> <meego-dev@meego.com>: mail forwarding loop for meego-dev@meego.com
Nov 20 08:44:20 <Stskeeps> mail dawn, i guess
Nov 20 08:44:57 <hena> hmh, i've been wondering why i'm not gettin any from meego-dev ;)
Nov 20 08:45:01 <Stskeeps> she handles lists.* admining, so
Nov 20 08:49:26 <thiago_home> she'll be up in 6 or 7 hours
Nov 20 08:50:50 <Stskeeps> i don't think we have any other admins in our timezone :/
Nov 20 09:17:45 * Chani looks at the clock
Nov 20 09:17:47 <Chani> meep.
Nov 20 09:18:19 <Chani> wow, that was a long shower..
Nov 20 09:18:22 <Chani> Mek: i'm on my way over now
Nov 20 09:19:52 <Mek> :) okay
Nov 20 09:21:09 <lcukn900> the guinness in england is just as awesome as ireland :)
Nov 20 09:35:34 <Stskeeps> lo wazd
Nov 20 09:50:16 <Stskeeps> morn lbt
Nov 20 09:50:30 <lbt> good morning
Nov 20 09:50:42 <lbt> lost you on whatever evening that was
Nov 20 09:51:20 <Stskeeps> yeah - i was looking around for you
Nov 20 09:51:21 <Mek> lbt: hi, would it be possible for us kde people to get a project on the community obs that is not in someones private namespace? (and I guess there are a couple of kde people that would love to get access to the community obs in the first place :) )
Nov 20 09:52:42 <lbt> Mek: yes... there will be a https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=Team
Nov 20 09:52:51 <lbt> however... there is a catch
Nov 20 09:53:15 <fabo_> :)
Nov 20 09:53:15 <lbt> I want to do this with lots of red tape ;)
Nov 20 09:53:26 <Mek> red tape?
Nov 20 09:53:33 <lbt> well, ok.... more a bit of red ribbon ....
Nov 20 09:53:42 <lbt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_tape
Nov 20 09:54:39 <lbt> so I asked someone around here.... (glances at fabo_) to help write up some process/policy stuff about who, what, when
Nov 20 09:54:50 <lbt> The thing is... we'll sign stuff in the Team area
Nov 20 09:55:07 <lbt> (maybe)
Nov 20 09:55:07 <rainyrhy> if that works, it should already be in Garage
Nov 20 09:55:13 <Mek> ah
Nov 20 09:55:16 <lbt> this is garage
Nov 20 09:55:59 <lbt> we have Extras: (garage), Surrounds: (contrib), Team: (dunno) and home:
Nov 20 09:56:48 <Mek> so for now I should just add people to my own home: kde project until this team thing is worked out?
Nov 20 09:56:54 <lbt> Team will be our official area for maintenance of a significant unit
Nov 20 09:57:13 <lbt> I don't want to just give KDE maintainer role for MeeGo to the first bod that asks...
Nov 20 09:57:20 <lbt> yes
Nov 20 09:57:27 <Mek> well, we're having a kde on meego dev sprint at the moment :)
Nov 20 09:57:36 <Mek> but understandable
Nov 20 09:57:52 <Tormis> rhkfin: no idea why it's failing :/
Nov 20 09:57:56 <lbt> so it may well be a simple "ask the CO" or some kind of community TSG
Nov 20 09:58:14 <lbt> and say "we claim the right because...."
Nov 20 09:58:41 <lbt> having a few upstream maintainers can't hurt :)
Nov 20 09:58:49 <fabo_> Mek: in the meantime, you can add users to your home:*:kde for collaborative work
Nov 20 09:58:50 <Mek> vkrause, MoRpHeUz, notmart: I guess some of you might want community obs acounts so I can add you to my current kde project? :)
Nov 20 09:58:54 <Mek> fabo_: yes, that's what I said
Nov 20 09:59:00 <vkrause> sure :)
Nov 20 09:59:09 <lbt> also ... my desktop died last night so the backlog is gone
Nov 20 09:59:23 <lbt> but I have an "add users to obs" script so fire away
Nov 20 09:59:34 <MoRpHeUz> Mek: lbt gave me yesterday an account (morpheuz)
Nov 20 09:59:42 <Mek> ah, okay
Nov 20 09:59:54 <MoRpHeUz> lbt: I was about to ask you how to change my password :) didn't find how to do it...
Nov 20 09:59:59 <Stskeeps> lbt: is there any plans for additional workers?
Nov 20 10:00:02 <Stskeeps> as in, obs workers
Nov 20 10:00:32 <lbt> MoRpHeUz: change on meego.com wait for the next hour (ie every hour, on the hour) to sync pw
Nov 20 10:00:47 <lbt> Stskeeps: yes... they kinda noticed that we may need some more
Nov 20 10:00:55 <Mek> vkrause: so give lbt and me your meego.com username :)
Nov 20 10:01:07 <lbt> don't tell anas but we'll get some core ones that are idle
Nov 20 10:01:41 <Stskeeps> lbt: and after you have more workers, we won't need the flagging like we do now?
Nov 20 10:01:55 <MoRpHeUz> lbt: ah ok, so it shares the infra with meego.com. nice :)
Nov 20 10:02:25 <lbt> MoRpHeUz: yes... I setup ldap for it
Nov 20 10:02:57 <lbt> Stskeeps: I want to get a handle on monitoring
Nov 20 10:03:04 <MoRpHeUz> lbt: you rock :)
Nov 20 10:03:07 <vkrause> Mek: lbt: my meego.com username is vkrause
Nov 20 10:03:35 <Stskeeps> lbt: as in policing or?
Nov 20 10:03:38 <Stskeeps>  / process
Nov 20 10:03:41 <lbt> both
Nov 20 10:03:51 <Stskeeps> k
Nov 20 10:04:07 <lbt> and I'm a tad nervous about wide open access yet... given I know the internal infra inside-out... it's not really secure
Nov 20 10:04:29 <Stskeeps> aren't the chroots kvm based?
Nov 20 10:04:37 <Stskeeps> with no networking
Nov 20 10:05:12 <lbt> yes... but we have a *lot* of work to do to get it smooth. It's too easy to make admin mistakes just know
Nov 20 10:05:22 <lbt> today is "manage distributed config" day
Nov 20 10:05:25 <Stskeeps> :nod:
Nov 20 10:05:51 <lbt> so I can validate that all machines have sensible iptables and all kinds of other stuff
Nov 20 10:08:54 * notmart steps in
Nov 20 10:09:00 <notmart> Mek: of course :)
Nov 20 10:10:07 <Mek> notmart: then tell lbt and me your meego.com username, and I'll add you to the current home:mkruisselbrink:kde project until the procedures around real Team: projects are in place
Nov 20 10:10:46 <notmart> lbt, Mek: yes, my username on meego.com is mart
Nov 20 10:12:36 <fabo_> Mek: my username is boudra
Nov 20 10:13:12 <MoRpHeUz> br
Nov 20 10:13:14 <MoRpHeUz> b
Nov 20 10:15:11 <Saviq> lbt: still around? I can has OBS account enabled please?
Nov 20 10:15:34 <lbt> back
Nov 20 10:16:12 <lbt> fabo_: done
Nov 20 10:16:20 <lbt> Saviq: meego.com username please
Nov 20 10:16:42 <Saviq> lbt: yup, Saviq it is
Nov 20 10:16:58 <Chani> lbt: can I have an obs account too, please? :)
Nov 20 10:17:00 <lbt> ah yes... http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder
Nov 20 10:17:14 * Chani starts reading backscroll
Nov 20 10:17:19 <lbt> good...
Nov 20 10:18:18 * lbt writes auto-responder to match a regex of : lbt.*OBS.* -> "please tell me your meego.com username"
Nov 20 10:18:27 <Chani> :)
Nov 20 10:18:40 * Chani was retrieving it already
Nov 20 10:18:47 <fabo_> lbt: thanks
Nov 20 10:18:51 <notmart> eheh, after the conference this big line for accounts -had-  to happen :)
Nov 20 10:19:06 <notmart> means that it was successful tough
Nov 20 10:19:46 <lbt> notmart: yes... we wanted it up beforehand but it finally got there on the thursday before, not a month before
Nov 20 10:19:58 <Chani> lbt: oh nice, I did get chani there :)
Nov 20 10:20:07 <lbt> done
Nov 20 10:22:03 <lbt> hmm... how would people feel about getting mail saying "community OBS may be disrupted" ?
Nov 20 10:22:13 <Chani> hmm?
Nov 20 10:22:20 <lbt> sorry, eg as we do admin work
Nov 20 10:22:40 <lbt> just thinking about mail notifiers
Nov 20 10:23:00 <Chani> hmm. if it happens less than once a month, then it's a useful notification
Nov 20 10:23:07 <lbt> and that one crossed my mind... I'll need to interrupt service a fair bit over the next weeks
Nov 20 10:23:08 <Chani> more often and it might get spammy :)
Nov 20 10:23:18 <Chani> hrm.
Nov 20 10:23:23 <lbt> OK .. I can just announce on here
Nov 20 10:23:35 <Chani> ok :)
Nov 20 10:23:40 <lbt> we're very beta still - but should be data safe
Nov 20 10:23:57 <Mek> hmm, I could add morpheuz as a maintainer to my kde project, but if I try boudra, mart, chani or vkrause (not sure which of them are supposed to already work) I get an "Unknown user with id '...'" error
Nov 20 10:23:58 <Chani> hmm, that reminds me, I never check /topic any more...
Nov 20 10:24:09 <lbt> Mek: interesting
Nov 20 10:24:23 <Chani> hmm.
Nov 20 10:24:31 <vkrause> Mek: I can't log in yet, might be related ;)
Nov 20 10:25:06 <lbt> vkrause: read backlog
Nov 20 10:26:17 <Mek> yeah, I guess some of the requests to lbt might have gotten lost, since I didn't see him react to every one of those people giving him their meego.com username
Nov 20 10:27:10 <vkrause> apparently
Nov 20 10:27:13 * Chani can't remember the obs url.. obs.something.meego.com?
Nov 20 10:27:14 <lbt> Mek: sorry, my machine crashed - but I saw nothing in the backlog
Nov 20 10:27:21 <vkrause> lbt: my username is vkrause
Nov 20 10:27:25 <Mek> Chani: build.pub.meego.com
Nov 20 10:27:30 <Chani> ohh
Nov 20 10:27:38 <lbt> vkrause: done
Nov 20 10:27:48 <vkrause> lbt: excellent, thanks :)
Nov 20 10:27:51 <Chani> lbt: did you do me?
Nov 20 10:28:08 <lbt> yes
Nov 20 10:28:13 <Mek> still "Unknown user with id 'vkrause'"
Nov 20 10:28:23 <lbt> ah.
Nov 20 10:28:28 <lbt> I bet the users need to login
Nov 20 10:28:34 <vkrause> login worked
Nov 20 10:28:36 <Mek> ah, okay, makes sense I guess
Nov 20 10:28:46 <Mek> yeah, now I can add him
Nov 20 10:28:50 * Chani logs in
Nov 20 10:28:58 <lbt> the mechanism is to authenticate against ldap and then writethrough to a local OBS user db
Nov 20 10:29:05 <Chani> lbt: thanks :)
Nov 20 10:29:08 * notmart still gets authentication failed
Nov 20 10:29:17 <lbt> notmart: which url ?
Nov 20 10:29:21 <Chani> Mek: you can add me now
Nov 20 10:29:22 <lbt> https://build.pub.meego.com/
Nov 20 10:29:24 <Mek> Chani: done
Nov 20 10:29:54 <vkrause> great, now let me see if I can upload kdepim-runtime, just got that to work here :)
Nov 20 10:30:25 <notmart> lbt: https://build.pub.meego.com then username and password of meego.com?
Nov 20 10:30:32 <lbt> notmart: yes
Nov 20 10:30:51 <lbt> needs 1hr for new accounts or passwd changes to sync up
Nov 20 10:30:52 <Chani> hmm, it doesn't show in *my* project page..
Nov 20 10:32:20 <notmart>  will try again in a while so...
Nov 20 10:32:50 <lbt> notmart: is it a really new account ?
Nov 20 10:33:25 <notmart> well, the meego.com account no, has two months probably
Nov 20 10:34:06 <lbt> oh, wait... [10:03] <Mek> notmart: then tell lbt and me your meego.com username,
Nov 20 10:34:16 <lbt> aha
Nov 20 10:34:24 <lbt> doen
Nov 20 10:35:20 <notmart> it works :)
Nov 20 10:35:28 <notmart> lbt: thx :D
Nov 20 10:43:15 <niala> morning'
Nov 20 10:47:39 <Mat_Matan> hi
Nov 20 10:49:29 <lbt> o/ Mat_Matan
Nov 20 10:54:33 <Saviq> lbt: have you considered adding opensuse as a remote obs instance available on pub.meego.com?
Nov 20 11:00:12 <lbt> Saviq: why ?
Nov 20 11:00:54 <Saviq> lbt: it could be useful to be able to base packages for MeeGo on them
Nov 20 11:01:15 <Saviq> in the ideal case - just link to them
Nov 20 11:01:29 <lbt> OK ... I proposed that over the conference
Nov 20 11:01:51 <lbt> I wonder about our Surrounds having an upstream
Nov 20 11:01:54 <lbt> auke shouted at me
Nov 20 11:02:05 <lbt> but admitted there may be something in it
Nov 20 11:07:22 <Saviq> lbt: IMO this could just be useful for people, nothing more
Nov 20 11:07:34 <Saviq> no requirement or anything
Nov 20 11:07:48 <lbt> Saviq: I'll certainly consider it more when we have more hardware
Nov 20 11:08:03 <Saviq> yeah that makes sense
Nov 20 11:15:27 <Saviq> lbt: do we have a place where the purpose of all the repositories is described? or why is there no current_core repo?
Nov 20 11:15:47 <lbt> no
Nov 20 11:15:54 <lbt> I'm on the wiki now
Nov 20 11:15:57 <lbt> please help
Nov 20 11:16:20 <lbt> http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder
Nov 20 11:16:37 <Saviq> anything in particular I could write?
Nov 20 11:17:18 <lbt> outline the existing projects
Nov 20 11:17:42 <lbt> say what targets you may use in typical use-cases
Nov 20 11:17:49 <lbt> eg targetting the free netbook
Nov 20 11:18:01 <lbt> or trying to port to N900/1.2
Nov 20 11:18:18 <lbt> link to naming conventions for targets
Nov 20 11:18:48 <lbt> link to more advanced team project use (eg multi-path)
Nov 20 11:25:27 <Saviq> oh so we only have one worker machine?
Nov 20 11:25:32 <lbt> :(
Nov 20 11:25:51 <Saviq> where's AMD when you need 'em ;)
Nov 20 11:25:53 <lbt> we can probably up that to 2 very quickly
Nov 20 11:25:56 <lbt> then 5
Nov 20 11:26:08 <lbt> we also need to sort out Xen I/O
Nov 20 11:26:39 <lbt> we're getting abysmal performance .... we think the raid cards are hurting.... reconfiguring spindles is on the TODO
Nov 20 11:27:31 <lbt> fixing i/o gives more cores - we have 24/machine iirc
Nov 20 11:27:43 <lbt> so we should have *lots* of workers
Nov 20 11:36:02 <Saviq> right
Nov 20 11:37:55 <jacekowski> i have a adaptec raid card that seems to be as slow with 3xSATA with raid0 as with raid5 on same disks
Nov 20 11:38:44 <jacekowski> and card should be a lot faster than that
Nov 20 11:40:04 <MoRpHeUz> well, it seems that the ideapad is stuck - no wireless neither battery indicator...let's wait for a bios update? =/
Nov 20 11:47:47 <lbt> MoRpHeUz: no wifi ?
Nov 20 11:48:11 <MoRpHeUz> lbt: nope
Nov 20 11:48:16 <MoRpHeUz> lbt: the led is even off....
Nov 20 11:48:20 <Stskeeps> MoRpHeUz: lspci
Nov 20 11:48:22 <lbt> switch on the side?
Nov 20 11:48:35 <lbt> front right corner
Nov 20 11:48:37 <MoRpHeUz> lbt: switch is on, the driver is broadcom
Nov 20 11:48:44 <lbt> just checking ;)
Nov 20 11:48:44 <Stskeeps> is wl-kmod installe?
Nov 20 11:49:12 <MoRpHeUz> even tried to reinstall windows...a lot of people is having this issue: http://www.proli.net/2010/11/19/hidden-wifi-switches/
Nov 20 11:49:58 <MoRpHeUz> Stskeeps: didn't triy wl-kmod but tried rfkill
Nov 20 11:50:28 <MoRpHeUz> lbt, Stskeeps: also the battery indicator always shows that it's at 0%, but it can survive on battery for hours...
Nov 20 11:50:44 <MoRpHeUz> I heard that it may be a BIOS bug =/
Nov 20 11:51:23 <Stskeeps> MoRpHeUz: cos at least the laptop+image i got had broadcom but no wl-kmod
Nov 20 11:51:49 <MoRpHeUz> Stskeeps: it was working at some point...just stopped working after a reboot or suspend/resume
Nov 20 11:51:50 <Stskeeps> hence rpm -qa | grep wl-kmod
Nov 20 11:51:51 <Stskeeps> ah ok
Nov 20 11:51:58 <lbt> http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/Ideapad
Nov 20 11:52:04 <Mek> Saviq: is it intended that you're building 24 different targets for your telepathy-sunshine package? It keeps the workers rather busy :)
Nov 20 11:52:16 <lbt> Mek: thanks :)
Nov 20 11:52:26 <Saviq> Mek:  I disabled all the other repos...
Nov 20 11:52:34 <Mek> they're still getting build it seems...
Nov 20 11:52:34 <Saviq> but first they got added enabled
Nov 20 11:52:37 <Saviq> so
Nov 20 11:52:39 <lbt> also... do people know about local build ?
Nov 20 11:52:49 <Saviq> we do
Nov 20 11:52:59 <lbt> ok good
Nov 20 11:53:21 <Saviq> Mek: I probably made the mistake of doing it the wrong way around - should've added the repos first and disable all of them project-wide
Nov 20 11:53:34 <Saviq> and add the package only then
Nov 20 11:53:38 <Mek> what does local build do?
Nov 20 11:53:54 <Saviq> Mek: roughly the same what workers do
Nov 20 11:53:59 <Saviq> but on your local machine
Nov 20 11:54:06 <lbt> *excactly* the same as the workers  (bar kernel version)
Nov 20 11:54:24 <Mek> so basically turning my local machine in a worker or something?
Nov 20 11:54:39 <lbt> the workers actually run the same build script that a local build runs and use the same wget
Nov 20 11:54:41 <lbt> yes
Nov 20 11:54:50 <Saviq> except that you don't publish the packages
Nov 20 11:54:50 <lbt> but on-demand "just build this"
Nov 20 11:54:55 <lbt> correct
Nov 20 11:55:11 <Mek> ah, well, I'm building stuff locally anyway before pushing them, so that won't help me
Nov 20 11:55:13 <Saviq> it's just there to test if they'll build fine on OBS
Nov 20 11:55:30 <Saviq> Mek: it will, 'cause it will verify that you don't have any missing deps and stuff
Nov 20 11:55:31 <lbt> ideally you setup a local chroot and bind-mount vcs and build in it
Nov 20 11:55:47 <Mek> yeah, that's what I'm doing
Nov 20 11:56:24 <Saviq> Mek: then as long as you do more than 'osc build <repo> <arch>'
Nov 20 11:56:30 <Saviq> to do your builds
Nov 20 11:56:45 <Saviq> osc will still speed up your work
Nov 20 11:57:06 <Mek> Saviq: what do you mean?
Nov 20 11:57:28 <Saviq> Mek: that's all that you need to do to trigger a local build
Nov 20 11:57:34 <Saviq> oneliner
Nov 20 11:57:41 <Mek> yeah okay
Nov 20 11:57:53 <Saviq> and it will bootstrap directly from the upstream repo
Nov 20 11:58:01 <Mek> although that complains that it can't find stuff
Nov 20 11:58:06 <Saviq> (caching a lot in the process, of course)
Nov 20 11:59:01 <Mek> and since the bottleneck right now is the actual publishing/building of packages on the OBS, that won't really speed up anything :)
Nov 20 11:59:27 <Saviq> well, yeah, it will only lessen the strain on them for testing out builds
Nov 20 11:59:45 <Saviq> btw, would it be possible to disable all the repos by default?
Nov 20 11:59:51 * Saviq thinks it might help
Nov 20 11:59:55 <Mek> why would you even add them all?
Nov 20 12:00:04 <Saviq> Mek: just for the future
Nov 20 12:00:15 <Saviq> to have 'em available in my home project
Nov 20 12:00:23 <Saviq> and enable at will on a per package basis
Nov 20 12:00:48 <Mek> so what to do about "Error: you need build.rpm with version 2007.3.12 or newer."?
Nov 20 12:00:53 <Saviq> doesn't that make sense?
Nov 20 12:01:29 <Saviq> ^^ that was not a response to Mek
Nov 20 12:01:47 <Saviq> Mek: what's your distro?
Nov 20 12:01:50 <Aard> Mek: you go to the opensuse repositories and get build.rpm
Nov 20 12:02:26 <lbt> please edit http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Packagers_Developers
Nov 20 12:02:59 <lbt> maybe add FAQ stuff - especially for distro specific issues
Nov 20 12:03:10 <MoRpHeUz> brb
Nov 20 12:03:17 <lbt> ideally linked to the suse bug report you filed
Nov 20 12:03:28 <Mek> hmm, maybe osc in meego should also come preconfigured for the meego obs, not the moblin one... :)
Nov 20 12:03:36 <lbt> rofl
Nov 20 12:03:53 <lbt> you should see the resolv.conf in the infra
Nov 20 12:05:51 <Aard> Mek: looks like they even have a usable version in the meego repositories now http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/tools/
Nov 20 12:07:11 <Mek> Aard: yeah, that's the one I installed, although now it complains that it can find dependencies (it looks in http://crepo.meego.com/MeeGo:/1.1:/Core/standard/i586/rpm-4.8.1-2.6.i586.rpm and https://api.pub.meego.com/build/MeeGo:1.1:Core/standard/i586/_repository/rpm)
Nov 20 12:07:26 <lbt> FYI ... starting point for community OBS stuff http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure#Community_Build_System
Nov 20 12:08:23 <sivang> lbt: what is actually surrounds? what repos does it contain?
Nov 20 12:08:53 <lbt> it is like suse contrib or ubuntu universe at the moment
Nov 20 12:09:42 <sivang> lbt: okay, so community build service is actually only about surrounds yes?
Nov 20 12:09:53 <lbt> http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure#Community_Build_System
Nov 20 12:11:15 <sivang> so build.meego.com is now for community builds as well? (I can't reach cbuild. anymore)
Nov 20 12:11:24 <Mek> build.pub.meego.com
Nov 20 12:11:37 <lbt> cbuild should redirect
Nov 20 12:12:07 <Aard> build.pub? does anybody expect alcohol to improve the results? :)
Nov 20 12:12:22 <lbt> we were in ireland
Nov 20 12:12:29 <lbt> in a pub
Nov 20 12:13:28 <Aard> alcohol abuse already brought us obs, no need to continue on the contents ;)
Nov 20 12:15:15 <MoRpHeUz> irish pub?
Nov 20 12:15:17 * MoRpHeUz hides
Nov 20 12:15:24 <sivang> thanks, cbuild redirects perfectly
Nov 20 12:16:35 <lbt> oh yes... note the pronunciation of pub in pub.meego.com ...
Nov 20 12:16:58 * lbt waits until we get control of the dns and can add guiness.pub.meego.com
Nov 20 12:17:04 <Chani> lol
Nov 20 12:17:38 <sivang> lbt: so, surrounds is the repo for deps and support the "Applications to run on MeeGo" from that wiki doc?
Nov 20 12:17:53 <timoph> lbt: is 'osc ci' supposed to work with pub?
Nov 20 12:18:11 <Mek> works fine for me
Nov 20 12:18:11 <timoph> gives me permanently moved error
Nov 20 12:18:30 <lbt> sivang: yes
Nov 20 12:18:42 <lbt> timoph: yes  https ?
Nov 20 12:18:58 <timoph> hmmh. I think I used http
Nov 20 12:19:01 * timoph checks
Nov 20 12:19:04 <lbt> timoph: you are now *obliged* to put that in the faq
Nov 20 12:19:07 <sivang> lbt: may I add this small note onto that wiki page?
Nov 20 12:19:20 <lbt> http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder has a TOC
Nov 20 12:19:26 <lbt> knock yourself out ;)
Nov 20 12:21:11 <lbt> timoph: add a "common pitfalls" to the TOC on that page and create a new page
Nov 20 12:21:15 <arfoll> how come there isn't a meego 1.0 target?
Nov 20 12:21:23 <lbt> then ask Aard to help you populate it
Nov 20 12:21:30 <arfoll> on pub.meego.com
Nov 20 12:21:31 <lbt> arfoll: there isn't ?
Nov 20 12:21:51 <arfoll> lbt, maybe i'm blind - but it loks like meego 1.1 and current
Nov 20 12:22:01 <arfoll> s/loks/looks
Nov 20 12:22:02 <lbt> https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=MeeGo%3A1.0
Nov 20 12:22:23 <lbt> it may not be in the list of easy options
Nov 20 12:22:31 <arfoll> ah ok thats it
Nov 20 12:22:45 <arfoll> the interface is confusingly different to OBS 1.9
Nov 20 12:23:01 <lbt> yeah
Nov 20 12:23:04 * sivang listens to Luke Kelly to ease landing
Nov 20 12:23:19 <lbt> we would like people to contrib changes
Nov 20 12:23:27 <lbt> I hate the https://build.pub.meego.com/project/list_public page
Nov 20 12:23:32 <lbt> it should have columns
Nov 20 12:23:34 <Aard> but wait with asking a few hours, I'm afk now
Nov 20 12:23:56 <arfoll> I hate more getting to subprojects is hidden in 'advanced'
Nov 20 12:23:57 <timoph> lbt: ack
Nov 20 12:24:02 <arfoll> how advanced are directories!
Nov 20 12:24:25 <lbt> arfoll: agreed - we can either change it upstream or adapt our theme
Nov 20 12:24:44 <lbt> this is a brand new UI and they're very receptive indeed
Nov 20 12:25:48 <arfoll> well its good to hear they are willing to change it, I say we should try get them to change it, it's much easier if OBS's look/behave the same
Nov 20 12:27:04 * slaine waves at arfoll and lbt
Nov 20 12:27:15 <lolloo> hi all!
Nov 20 12:27:36 <arfoll> hey slaine!
Nov 20 12:28:01 <sivang> hey slaine
Nov 20 12:28:27 <slaine> hey sivang
Nov 20 12:28:34 <slaine> you all made it home safe and sound I see
Nov 20 12:28:55 <lolloo> yes thank you
Nov 20 12:28:55 <sivang> how can I configure my "sources" list to fetch me upgrades to run at latest daily that was discussed a few hours ago on -releases?
Nov 20 12:29:11 <arfoll> ryanair made me break my suitcase but apart from that...
Nov 20 12:29:11 <Saviq> awesome, I\m getting all messages thrice...
Nov 20 12:29:19 <Saviq> brb
Nov 20 12:29:20 <sivang> slaine: indeed, for me it was with a minor annoyance of delaying and almost missing departure from dublin, but all good eventually
Nov 20 12:30:37 <slaine> I had the least amount of travel of most people at the conf but I was exhausted on the Thursday
Nov 20 12:30:52 <slaine> late nights and early starts
Nov 20 12:32:18 <lolloo> welcome back guys!
Nov 20 12:32:31 <lolloo> I hope you had fun !
Nov 20 12:32:49 <lolloo> I would like to thank Nokia and Intel.
Nov 20 12:35:03 <vair> делаешь?
Nov 20 12:41:30 <timoph> are we using the same packaging guidelines in the pub osb than core obs? For me that would sound reasonable if we want to get stuff moved from pub to core at some point.
Nov 20 12:44:04 <lbt> we are
Nov 20 12:44:08 <timoph> good
Nov 20 12:45:05 <lbt> timoph: what was the error message (for wiki google bait)
Nov 20 12:45:11 <nhg> any one was at the meego conf this week?
Nov 20 12:45:32 <lbt> about 1050 of us nhg :)
Nov 20 12:45:48 <nhg> right
Nov 20 12:45:56 <Stskeeps> lo nhg - think we spoke (carsten munk here)
Nov 20 12:46:09 <Stskeeps> if you're from TI, that is :P
Nov 20 12:46:20 <nhg> Yes...thats correct
Nov 20 12:46:27 <nhg> Yes...from TI
Nov 20 12:46:52 <nhg> So 1050 was the official number eh...wow....awesome!
Nov 20 12:46:54 <sivang> any one from openismus in here?
Nov 20 12:47:42 <Saviq> "Trying openSUSE Build Service server for glibc (MeeGo:1.1:Core), not found at crepo.meego.com" << that probably means 'using repo.meego.com instead of crepo.meego.com', right?
Nov 20 12:48:42 <lbt> + ".pub"
Nov 20 12:49:01 <lbt> but also probably a config bug
Nov 20 12:49:20 <lbt> we were... happy... whilst fixing the new urls
Nov 20 12:49:27 <Saviq> ah so we don't use core OBS as upstream, just snapshots?
Nov 20 12:49:33 <lbt> correct
Nov 20 12:51:19 <Saviq> lbt: what's the rationale behind that decision?
Nov 20 12:53:01 <lbt> they wouldn't let us :)
Nov 20 12:53:08 <lbt> now things are different
Nov 20 12:53:14 <lbt> but it isn't needed
Nov 20 12:53:29 <Saviq> also, is the lower/uppercase difference between _Netbook and _handset on purpose?
Nov 20 12:53:37 <lbt> we don't have build resource to allow users to track live rebuilds of core
Nov 20 12:53:43 <lbt> bug
Nov 20 12:53:53 <lbt> ask X-Fade :)
Nov 20 12:54:12 <lbt> we may need to completely redo the projects.. feedback needed
Nov 20 12:54:22 <sivang> lbt: added that note, it is important to explain "new" terminology that we introduce, or is surrounds borrowed from suse?
Nov 20 12:54:44 <lbt> it's a new term.
Nov 20 12:55:00 <lbt> I have some writeup to do
Nov 20 12:55:01 <Saviq> one last thing in this QA session, why isn't there a current_core target?
Nov 20 12:55:33 <lbt> possible bug
Nov 20 12:56:24 <lbt> it may be simply that it's not on the shortcuts
Nov 20 12:56:31 <lbt> which makes sense
Nov 20 12:58:18 <Saviq> about that feedback - I believe the core / extras distinction is a bit confusing, suggests that there's something different in core, not just that extras is an extension of it (or is it, in fact, not?)
Nov 20 12:58:38 <lbt> extras = app store
Nov 20 12:58:46 <lbt> see maemo extras
Nov 20 12:58:57 <Saviq> well, yes but it's core+extras, isn't it?
Nov 20 12:59:03 <lbt> mmm
Nov 20 13:00:02 <lbt> well in the same way that it's core+netbook ux+surrounds+extras
Nov 20 13:00:37 <lbt> which is technically what we expect... but packages in extras are simple(!) user apps
Nov 20 13:01:08 <arfoll> lbt, so apps in extras are not allowed to have deps from extras?
Nov 20 13:01:21 <arfoll> like pacakges in the intel appup store, they have to be a single RPM?
Nov 20 13:01:21 <Saviq> arfoll: that's what the extras targets are for
Nov 20 13:01:22 <lbt> arfoll: correct
Nov 20 13:01:29 <lbt> *but*
Nov 20 13:01:39 <lbt> that is what surrounds is for
Nov 20 13:01:42 <arfoll> in that case why can you use it as a target? That makes no sense
Nov 20 13:01:52 <Saviq> yeah ^
Nov 20 13:01:55 <lbt> it's not really a target
Nov 20 13:02:00 <arfoll> at least it shouldn't be in the 'quick' choices for targets
Nov 20 13:02:16 <lbt> probably not
Nov 20 13:02:17 <Saviq> that's what I thought the _extras* were for
Nov 20 13:02:23 <lbt> sorry
Nov 20 13:03:57 <Saviq> in that case the '_core' suffix is even more confusing and should go away IMO
Nov 20 13:04:21 <Saviq> especially since we call 'Core' the set of things that're common between verticals
Nov 20 13:05:13 <lbt> Saviq: put together a proposal on the wiki in "What the Targets are for"
Nov 20 13:05:24 <Saviq> weill do
Nov 20 13:05:28 <Saviq> -e
Nov 20 13:08:25 <niala> zypper dup done,  now reboot
Nov 20 13:08:31 <niala> hello CosmoHill
Nov 20 13:09:19 <CosmoHill> salut ...oh he's gone
Nov 20 13:12:01 <sivang> hey CosmoHill
Nov 20 13:12:25 <CosmoHill> salut
Nov 20 13:16:40 <niala> CosmoHill: reading fc today ?
Nov 20 13:16:49 <CosmoHill> ah, oui
Nov 20 13:17:06 <CosmoHill> I"m watching the Wales WRC Rally at the moment
Nov 20 13:17:34 <niala> CosmoHill: go Loeb go
Nov 20 13:17:40 <CosmoHill> lol
Nov 20 13:18:01 <CosmoHill> has anyone seen Linus' rant about DRM in the linux kernel?
Nov 20 13:18:07 <Saviq> hmm "can't verify packages due to lack of GPG keys"
Nov 20 13:18:42 <Saviq> not sure which key and where to import...
Nov 20 13:21:02 <Stskeeps> CosmoHill: url?
Nov 20 13:21:31 <CosmoHill> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODgwMQ
Nov 20 13:21:50 <CosmoHill> I don't know who Chris and Dave are but Linus is not happy with them
Nov 20 13:23:59 <arfoll> CosmoHill, I recommend you read the full LKML message because the phoronix article doesnt quite do it justice
Nov 20 13:24:10 <CosmoHill> okay I will
Nov 20 13:24:39 <lbt> url ?
Nov 20 13:25:00 <lbt> but he's essentially moaning about process and visibility of discrete changes... not much to do with DRM
Nov 20 13:25:12 <lbt> basically "yay linus!"
Nov 20 13:25:37 <arfoll> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2010-November/005596.html
Nov 20 13:26:07 <arfoll> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2010-November/005599.html
Nov 20 13:26:27 <arfoll> they where giving fixes for Linus's machine...
Nov 20 13:37:51 <CosmoHill> I thought he was annoyed at the messy code that resulted from git doing the merges and not humans
Nov 20 13:47:49 <timoph> lbt: if I remember correctly '301 - moved permanently'
Nov 20 13:50:06 <timoph> there was something else in it but I just can't remember the exact error msg
Nov 20 13:51:59 <arfoll> lbt, when is the maemo obs going offline?
Nov 20 14:12:41 <lbt> timoph: change it back ?
Nov 20 14:12:50 <lbt> arfoll: no plans... soon
Nov 20 14:17:53 <timoph> lbt: Transmitting file data .Server returned an error: HTTP Error 301: Moved Permanently
Nov 20 14:18:39 <Stskeeps> http or https api url?
Nov 20 14:19:01 <timoph> http. expected error
Nov 20 14:19:21 <timoph> or I knew to expect it this time :)
Nov 20 14:19:32 <lbt> timoph ftw ............................... for the wiki ;)
Nov 20 14:19:38 <timoph> :)
Nov 20 14:26:07 * CosmoHill moans of loss of Linux support on his PS3
Nov 20 14:27:56 <timoph> lbt: added
Nov 20 14:27:57 <Saviq> timoph: just add an alias in ~/.oscrc and use '-a meego'
Nov 20 14:28:04 <Saviq> or whatever
Nov 20 14:28:26 <timoph> Saviq: put that tip to the wiki
Nov 20 14:28:31 <lbt> Saviq: he was helping contrib to the wiki
Nov 20 14:28:42 <timoph> http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder/Common_pitfalls#Use_https_not_http
Nov 20 14:33:56 <CosmoHill> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD9T03qsFuo&feature=player_embedded
Nov 20 14:34:13 <Saviq> hmm I should not put that in the pitfall, do we have a tip'n'tricks?
Nov 20 14:34:45 <lbt> pitfalls is supposed to be for when you hit an error
Nov 20 14:34:52 <lbt> we do have tips+tricks
Nov 20 14:35:08 <lbt> using -A is useful to switch between OBSes
Nov 20 14:40:04 <bhaanu> Could somebody please comment on the question in this message  http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=13340&postcount=10
Nov 20 14:40:11 <Saviq> anyway, we have now http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder/Tips_and_tricks
Nov 20 14:46:33 <bhaanu> I am having a challenge in getting the Netbook sdk image to work using qemu. and the link  http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=13340&postcount=10 is related to that
Nov 20 15:03:49 <marnanel> couple of robotfindskitten screenshots running on the conference notebook: http://i.imgur.com/RZyqx.png  http://i.imgur.com/Xh1s4.png
Nov 20 15:22:10 <Mat_Matan> hi
Nov 20 15:35:00 <GAN900> OK, where should my unconference minutes go?
Nov 20 15:35:15 <GAN900> community mailing list or community forum?
Nov 20 15:35:28 <Stskeeps> wiki?
Nov 20 15:35:38 <GAN900> I'd like to encourage some discussion
Nov 20 15:35:43 <Stskeeps> both, then :P
Nov 20 15:35:55 <GAN900> Since the stupid netbook giveaway screwed up the collab day. . . .
Nov 20 15:37:17 <slaine> GAN900: I hope you gave yours back as a sign of protest
Nov 20 15:37:59 <GAN900> Topical marketing for the first two days, netbook chaos to ruin the last. :(
Nov 20 15:38:25 <GAN900> slaine, a session on International Logistics might be in order for the next one. *g*
Nov 20 15:38:49 <slaine> Or "How not to believe a supplier"
Nov 20 15:49:26 * CosmoHill swears cos his program is running a lot slower than everyone else's
Nov 20 15:57:32 <GAN900> Jaffa, ping?
Nov 20 16:06:48 <marnanel> Does anyone know where you get templates to make icons for the launcher?
Nov 20 16:09:06 <marnanel> got it: http://wiki.meego.com/File:Templates.zip
Nov 20 16:24:16 <Jaffa> re
Nov 20 16:24:20 <Jaffa> GAN900: pong
Nov 20 16:28:40 <timeless_mbp> hello
Nov 20 16:29:34 <CosmoHill> hey timeless_mbp
Nov 20 16:33:15 <lolloo> hello
Nov 20 16:43:00 <Jaffa> DawnFoster: ping
Nov 20 16:44:05 <timeless_mbp> hey
Nov 20 16:44:10 <timeless_mbp> my luggage arrived!
Nov 20 16:44:27 <kyb3R> :)
Nov 20 16:44:29 <timeless_mbp> (it spent thursday night in Paris, and wasn't interested in arriving early enough here yesterday)
Nov 20 16:46:15 <Jaffa> Birmingham airport was closed last night. Good job I didn't stay longer!
Nov 20 16:46:32 <GAN900> Weather?
Nov 20 16:46:56 <Jaffa> GAN900: Light plane crash caused by weather.
Nov 20 16:47:19 <GAN900> Good job indeed
Nov 20 16:47:21 <Jaffa> GAN900: Carrying a liver for organ transplant. 2 people on board quite badly injured, but the transplant succeeded
Nov 20 16:48:20 <Jaffa> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11802997
Nov 20 16:53:19 <DawnFoster> hey Jaffa
Nov 20 16:53:28 <lbt> hey Jaffa
Nov 20 16:53:31 <lbt> and DawnFoster :)
Nov 20 16:53:37 <DawnFoster> hey lbt
Nov 20 16:53:52 <lbt> we now have 41 users on the OBS
Nov 20 16:54:04 <lbt> and kde is being built...
Nov 20 16:54:11 <CosmoHill> yay
Nov 20 16:54:29 <CosmoHill> can I have an account just to say I was one of the first 50? :)
Nov 20 16:54:36 <GAN900> Implosion in 3... 2...
Nov 20 16:54:43 <lbt> you've seen the process...
Nov 20 16:55:43 <lbt> CosmoHill: so... ? what's your meego.com id ?
Nov 20 16:55:46 <timeless_mbp> GAN900 / Jaffa / DawnFoster / lbt : so, i started working on another slide set
Nov 20 16:55:50 <CosmoHill> just "cosmo"
Nov 20 16:55:56 <lbt> done
Nov 20 16:55:58 * timeless_mbp could use some feedback at some point
Nov 20 16:56:12 <CosmoHill> yay
Nov 20 16:56:13 <CosmoHill> thanks
Nov 20 16:56:20 <lbt> timeless_mbp: is it more... "constructive" ... otherwise I'm not interested ;)
Nov 20 16:56:38 <timeless_mbp> lbt: hopefully :)
Nov 20 16:56:42 <lbt> good
Nov 20 16:56:51 <timeless_mbp> and not fair, i had suggestions on the last couple of slides :)
Nov 20 16:57:08 * lbt wonders if it's now OK to growl at DawnFoster?
Nov 20 16:57:17 <DawnFoster> nope :)
Nov 20 16:57:33 <DawnFoster> still recovering from the conferene
Nov 20 16:57:43 <lbt> I have a small todo list....
Nov 20 16:57:48 <DawnFoster> I'm actually on vacation
Nov 20 16:57:52 <lbt> been working all day... and it got bigger
Nov 20 16:58:02 <lbt> DawnFoster: yay :)
Nov 20 16:58:06 <timeless_mbp> DawnFoster: earned and well deserved
Nov 20 16:58:12 <DawnFoster> taking the rest of november for the thanksgiving holiday to chill out.
Nov 20 16:58:15 <DawnFoster> thanks!
Nov 20 16:58:19 <timeless_mbp> but vacations on saturdays are kinda silly :)
Nov 20 16:58:25 <DawnFoster> I plan to read books
Nov 20 16:58:40 <timeless_mbp> except in Finland where officially you're supposed to spend vacation in 6 day blocks (including Saturday)...
Nov 20 16:58:42 <DawnFoster> well, Friday was my last day at work, so today counts as vacation :)
Nov 20 16:58:57 * gabrbedd still thinks DawnFoster rocks.
Nov 20 16:59:04 <lbt> timeless_mbp: actually, that looks rather useful
Nov 20 16:59:11 <DawnFoster> gabrbedd: thanks!
Nov 20 16:59:22 <timeless_mbp> lbt: thanks
Nov 20 16:59:27 <DawnFoster> of course, I'm hanging out with all of you guys on vacation :)
Nov 20 16:59:31 <timeless_mbp> some slides are definitely unfinished
Nov 20 17:00:00 <lbt> could go on the wiki... and we need DawnFoster to point Ryan at it ... (although he's going to be fine with it)
Nov 20 17:00:05 <timeless_mbp> i'm kinda sad that unconf didn't have video recording
Nov 20 17:00:15 <timeless_mbp> i did an intro to MXR in the l10n room
Nov 20 17:00:19 <timeless_mbp> using my n900's tv-out
Nov 20 17:00:35 <DawnFoster> ah, some of the uncof sessions were recorded, but not that room
Nov 20 17:00:45 <timeless_mbp> was that marked on the board?
Nov 20 17:00:52 <timeless_mbp> (not that i was there early enough to pick a choice spot)
Nov 20 17:00:57 <arfoll> where are the videos for the sessions? I can't find them on the schedule
Nov 20 17:01:15 <timeless_mbp> arfoll: mine is just at the top of the page for our talk
Nov 20 17:01:20 <timeless_mbp> and i saw someone else's the same way
Nov 20 17:01:24 <timeless_mbp> it isn't ideal
Nov 20 17:01:33 <timeless_mbp> it'd be nice to be able to see video icon links from the schedule itself
Nov 20 17:01:46 <arfoll> ok I see yours but for exampel the keynote ones aren't up
Nov 20 17:02:01 * timeless_mbp chuckles
Nov 20 17:02:02 <lbt> we could do with a revamp of the schedule page adding 's' and 'v' links to each entry for slides and video
Nov 20 17:02:09 <timeless_mbp> please
Nov 20 17:02:23 <Jaffa> DawnFoster: Was just going to say the MeeGo feed on my blog (on the News_and_Planet#Candidates list) now has entries; but don't worry about it if you're now on vacation. You deserve a rest...
Nov 20 17:02:27 <timeless_mbp> fwiw, i also would like to make my GoogleDocs slides available
Nov 20 17:02:34 <timeless_mbp> the ppt export kinda broke some of the slides :(
Nov 20 17:02:41 <lbt> DawnFoster: can I add some text to the wiki home page ?
Nov 20 17:02:47 <DawnFoster> Jaffa - nah, I'll add it. only takes a minute
Nov 20 17:03:02 <DawnFoster> lbt: sure
Nov 20 17:03:17 <DawnFoster> just make sure the text on the home page is relevant to a wide audience
Nov 20 17:03:17 <timeless_mbp> lbt: anyway, i'd like to try to finish off the slides and figure out where to put them
Nov 20 17:03:18 <lbt> (it's locked)
Nov 20 17:03:38 <DawnFoster> lbt: no, other people edit it
Nov 20 17:04:04 <lbt> oh. I'll try again. I may have been logged out when I started
Nov 20 17:04:19 <Saviq> hmm do we have some python packaging guidelines?
Nov 20 17:04:55 <josu> btw is there any way to fetch qaikus and show them in Myzone?
Nov 20 17:05:43 <DawnFoster> Jaffa: ok, your posts should show up now
Nov 20 17:05:56 <Jaffa> DawnFoster: Ta muchly.
Nov 20 17:06:02 <lbt> yes... misinterpreted the message
Nov 20 17:07:39 <DawnFoster> Jaffa: oops, no - let me fix it.
Nov 20 17:09:06 <DawnFoster> Jaffa: ok, now it works
Nov 20 17:09:17 <smoku> gosh... the ubuntu unity interface is so much better than meego tablet interface... I can finally use my ideapad without beeing annoyed every few minutes
Nov 20 17:09:33 <timeless_mbp> smoku: hrm, does it support wifi?
Nov 20 17:09:38 <timeless_mbp> (or how did you install it?)
Nov 20 17:09:49 * timeless_mbp is still waiting for someone to provide a "how-to-dualboot-your-ideapad"
Nov 20 17:09:54 <Stskeeps> smoku: you mean the netbook inteface
Nov 20 17:10:03 <Stskeeps> and yes, netbook isn't that good on tablets :P
Nov 20 17:10:17 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: you're using handset? :)
Nov 20 17:10:21 <Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: planning to
Nov 20 17:10:24 <DawnFoster> timeless_mbp: what about upstream developers?
Nov 20 17:10:35 <timeless_mbp> DawnFoster: oh
Nov 20 17:10:36 <timeless_mbp> hrm
Nov 20 17:10:36 <smoku> Stskeeps, the unity interface. the next ubuntu release will bring it on desktop too
Nov 20 17:10:46 <timeless_mbp> this is mostly designed from my mozilla->nokia experience
Nov 20 17:10:55 <smoku> Stskeeps, but yes. currently it is default in ubuntu netbook remix
Nov 20 17:10:57 <timeless_mbp> and the collaborator is another mozilla dev
Nov 20 17:10:59 * timeless_mbp ponders
Nov 20 17:11:08 <timeless_mbp> yeah, definitely need to figure out how to work that in
Nov 20 17:11:16 <DawnFoster> timeless_mbp: seems like it should be included, since MeeGo and lots of other open source project rely heavily on upstream
Nov 20 17:11:22 <timeless_mbp> yeah
Nov 20 17:11:33 <timeless_mbp> it just requires more thought :)
Nov 20 17:11:43 <smoku> timeless_mbp, I just downloaded ubuntu netbook remix iso, dd it on my usb pendrive and booted the netbook from usb
Nov 20 17:11:46 <timeless_mbp> the primary goal of the slide set is to encourage a split bugzilla
Nov 20 17:11:51 <timeless_mbp> [dev-bugs] [user-bugs]
Nov 20 17:11:56 <timeless_mbp> w/ a bridge between
Nov 20 17:12:13 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: How scalable is the Handset UX resolution? Given the bugs around missing X Terminal and Settings icons, I'm guessing "not very" (and the fact someone had brought an IdeaPad running Handset UX and it seemed to be running at 800x480)
Nov 20 17:12:14 <timeless_mbp> smoku: ok, did you get wifi?
Nov 20 17:12:16 <smoku> Stskeeps, meego netbook is not that good on tablets. even if you do not have touch screen
Nov 20 17:12:29 <Stskeeps> snowpong_: yeah, i know
Nov 20 17:12:39 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: there's some bugfixes to be made in theme
Nov 20 17:12:41 <smoku> timeless_mbp, yes. even during installation. it downloaded updates and mp3 support during installation.
Nov 20 17:12:48 <timeless_mbp> smoku: shiny
Nov 20 17:12:55 <Stskeeps> smoku: yes, i agree
Nov 20 17:13:04 <timeless_mbp> smoku: can it make my system dual boot? :)
Nov 20 17:13:10 <timeless_mbp> if so, i'll start w/ it as my first linux
Nov 20 17:13:18 <timeless_mbp> i.e. shrink my windows system
Nov 20 17:15:21 <smoku> Stskeeps, i meant that meego netbook interface is not good even on netbooks. no easy way to switch apps. no clock. no indicators that you have new mail or new im message. having to hit the upper screen border every minute is annoying
Nov 20 17:15:38 <timeless_mbp> smoku: Stskeeps and others talking work on handset
Nov 20 17:15:45 <timeless_mbp> you aren't going to hear them argue against you
Nov 20 17:15:55 <timeless_mbp> but complaining here isn't worth much
Nov 20 17:16:03 <timeless_mbp> better is to identify individual problems
Nov 20 17:16:04 <timeless_mbp> or use cases
Nov 20 17:16:14 <timeless_mbp> and get them into bugzilla or some use-case tracker
Nov 20 17:16:24 <timeless_mbp> and if you feel like making patches, that's a possibility
Nov 20 17:16:25 <Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: uhm, not complaining about handset :) netbook ux on a touchscreen clearly shows why we need special ux'es for touch
Nov 20 17:17:02 <smoku> timeless_mbp, I see no point in raising "basic design ideas are f*ed" bugs
Nov 20 17:17:31 <timeless_mbp> smoku: yeah, for that it has to be "document use cases"
Nov 20 17:17:39 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: The IdeaPad's an interesting device. But I think it shows me that a convertible netbook/tablet is a very hard h/w proposition.
Nov 20 17:17:46 <timeless_mbp> probably with a comparative analysis of other platforms
Nov 20 17:17:47 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: Compared with a dedicated ARM tablet
Nov 20 17:17:56 <timeless_mbp> Jaffa: it works great w/ windows :)
Nov 20 17:17:57 <smoku> Stskeeps, agreed. but even if I do not use the touchscreen, but the keyboard + touchpad, the tablet interface annoys the hell of me
Nov 20 17:18:16 <Stskeeps> smoku: it's not a tablet interface - it's netbook
Nov 20 17:18:19 <Stskeeps> just to get the terms right
Nov 20 17:18:23 <ShadowJK> smoku, you mean "try do anything a normal person would want to do"-"use case" is broken? :)
Nov 20 17:18:25 <Stskeeps> what got installed from usb on the ideapads was netbook ux
Nov 20 17:18:29 <smoku> Stskeeps, yes. I get them mixed up constantly
Nov 20 17:18:37 * Chani would build plasma-netbook packages if obs didn't seem so intimidating...
Nov 20 17:18:45 <Chani> I on't really know where to *begin*
Nov 20 17:18:52 <Stskeeps> Chani: do you know how to write spec files?
Nov 20 17:19:01 <Chani> Stskeeps: nope
Nov 20 17:19:19 <Chani> Stskeeps: I know that a spec file is something obs uses. that is all I know about packaging.
Nov 20 17:19:20 <smoku> ShadowJK, exactly. I tried to write an email while talking on IM. I needed to constantly switch the applications, to see whether my friend had written something
Nov 20 17:19:25 <Stskeeps> Chani: http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Tutorial
Nov 20 17:19:42 * Chani reads
Nov 20 17:19:53 <Jaffa> Chani: lbt should be able to help with OBS; and spectacle is a tool for helping produce .spec files for "normalesque" source tarballs.
Nov 20 17:20:01 <Chani> 'course it doesn't help that my brain is half fried from reading email half the day ;)
Nov 20 17:20:22 <slaine> smoku: there is no published tablet ux as of yet, so now would be a good time to start playing around with ideas form both the handset ux and the netbook ux to see if we can come up with something that works
Nov 20 17:20:22 * arfoll needs more upload bandwidth to OBS....
Nov 20 17:20:27 <ShadowJK> smoku, how about Bug: interface makes user facepalm Expected result: user does not facepalm or scream in despair
Nov 20 17:20:49 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
Nov 20 17:21:04 <smoku> ShadowJK, for me it looks like the person that designed and coded the netbook interface never actually used it :/
Nov 20 17:21:15 <slaine> that's pretty harsh
Nov 20 17:21:29 <slaine> a lot of talented people spent a long time coming up with that ux
Nov 20 17:21:36 <DocScrutinizer> haha
Nov 20 17:21:58 <arfoll> smoku, I actually quite like the netbook UX on a netbook
Nov 20 17:22:07 <smoku> slaine, sure. there are a lot of cool ideas there. but alongside there are some hurdles that makes me WTF??!
Nov 20 17:22:14 <Stskeeps> RevdKathy: my slide from keynote is online if you find the session on conference2010.meego.com
Nov 20 17:22:14 <slaine> I've been using it in one form or another for over a year and half
Nov 20 17:22:38 <arfoll> ok, the alt-tab behaviour is stupid but it's not unusable
Nov 20 17:22:41 <timeless_mbp> slaine: i think there is a reasonable point here, bugzilla as is won't work well for people complaining about use-case-fail
Nov 20 17:22:44 <Chani> wow
Nov 20 17:22:55 <RevdKathy> Oh thanks Stskeeps! I can think of lots of places it might be usable - with a different interpretation of 'upstream first'!
Nov 20 17:22:59 <Chani> smoku: exactly.
Nov 20 17:23:23 <smoku> slaine, yesterday Texrat (quite a smart guy) came here to ask how do he switch apps in netbook UI.  doesn't it show basic usability issues with it?
Nov 20 17:23:23 <RevdKathy> I only logged in to boast that I am on Xchat on my ideapad!
Nov 20 17:23:24 <timeless_mbp> slaine: does the netbook ux team actually have documents describing use cases they're trying to address?
Nov 20 17:23:25 <Chani> it's a strange mix of "ooh, that's neat" and "what were they smoking!?"
Nov 20 17:24:02 <RevdKathy> I think the UI is TOO simple - they went for simplicity to the point of leaving out stuff I need.
Nov 20 17:24:12 <timeless_mbp> smoku: um, to be fair, some things aren't intuitive anywhere
Nov 20 17:24:23 <timeless_mbp> ... but vendors e.g. apple rely on viral learning
Nov 20 17:24:27 <slaine> People like us wheren't the target audience.
Nov 20 17:24:33 <RevdKathy> People like me were!
Nov 20 17:24:41 <slaine> I'd disagree
Nov 20 17:24:41 <smoku> timeless_mbp, I have no problem in discovering how to switch apps in unity
Nov 20 17:24:45 <timeless_mbp> if you learn how to do something and it's memorable, you'll remember forever
Nov 20 17:24:53 <slaine> you've an n900, I can't figure out how to use mine
Nov 20 17:25:07 <timeless_mbp> slaine: hrm, did i run into you @dub?
Nov 20 17:25:25 <slaine> smoku: all I did was alt+tab and it switched to the app, you get a nice visual queue too
Nov 20 17:25:33 <RevdKathy> n900 is actually quite simple for the average user - couple of things needed hunting for but mostly quite intuitive
Nov 20 17:25:41 <w00t> two things I really dislike about netbook UX.. hiding toolbar that I can't make appear without a keyboard/mouse (touchscreen..) and the stupid 'zones' concept, or at least primarily the incredislow transitions between zones..
Nov 20 17:25:48 <smoku> slaine, if you do not count the fact that alt-tab sometimes does not work
Nov 20 17:25:50 <Chani> I've seen people fail at using the n900 to :)
Nov 20 17:25:56 <w00t> (but zones altogether seem really weird)
Nov 20 17:26:04 <Chani> then again, I completely fail at trying to use an iphone or android
Nov 20 17:26:04 <slaine> timeless_mbp: no, we didn't
Nov 20 17:26:08 <w00t> and yes, the n900 'test' I always love giving people is to open a dialog and ask them to close it
Nov 20 17:26:11 <timeless_mbp> slaine: darn :(
Nov 20 17:26:12 <w00t> "where's the button?!"
Nov 20 17:26:16 <timeless_mbp> i knew i missed someone :(
Nov 20 17:26:24 <slaine> I missed loads of people
Nov 20 17:26:33 <timeless_mbp> i ran into RevdKathy and Chani
Nov 20 17:26:43 <Chani> my friends atually laughed at me the first time I got to play with a wii (I didn't get video games as a kid)
Nov 20 17:26:46 <slaine> I bet if I saw photo's of people and nicks I'd face palm and remember standing next to them or something
Nov 20 17:27:19 <w00t> slaine: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rJGdTMbrc-o/S-MmndVpx_I/AAAAAAAAABE/tZyAd2mXUHo/s1600-R/5e54b7913bdfabcc5d1b642ae4803e58%3Fs%3D80%26r%3Dg
Nov 20 17:27:22 <w00t> :)
Nov 20 17:27:24 <smoku> Chani, agreed. this is exactly my experience. "oh, that's neat" and few seconds later "how TF do I get to ...?"
Nov 20 17:27:26 <w00t> (I don't believe we got to chat)
Nov 20 17:27:36 <Chani> w00t: I think zones show some promise, but they're... missing somehting
Nov 20 17:27:44 <slaine> w00t: yes, I recognise you, and we didn't get to chat
Nov 20 17:28:05 <Chani> haha.. waaay too many people at that conference
Nov 20 17:28:05 <w00t> Chani: a button to get out of them with a touchscreen at least! *g*
Nov 20 17:28:09 <timeless_mbp> slaine: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3183/2982658690_6611c4f4ef_o.jpg i'm the guy on the right
Nov 20 17:28:10 <smoku> Chani, that's why i think the designers of this interface do not use it - if they were, they would discover this basic usability issues
Nov 20 17:28:13 <RevdKathy> The MYzone needs to be massively more configurable
Nov 20 17:28:17 <timeless_mbp> but my hair was neater @dub
Nov 20 17:28:22 * Chani had several "oh wait we've introduced ourselves before" moments
Nov 20 17:28:39 <arfoll> lbt, are there only 3 slots and one worker on the new pub obs?
Nov 20 17:28:44 <leinir> Chani: They need moar activities... ;)
Nov 20 17:28:48 <slaine> I think our past experiences impose a bias on our expectations, anything that's different has a lot of WTF's. I was the same when I got my first mac os computer
Nov 20 17:29:14 <sivang> re all
Nov 20 17:29:16 <sivang> hey timeless_mbp
Nov 20 17:29:17 <w00t> Chani: I had a really great moment, not quite along those lines, but.. spent ~15 minutes talking to someone before finding out I was working in the same office as him a while ago for a month and we never ran into each other, which was amusing
Nov 20 17:29:20 <timeless_mbp> hi
Nov 20 17:29:26 <Chani> hehe
Nov 20 17:29:28 * sivang realizes how many people he missed meeting
Nov 20 17:29:33 <smoku> w00t, the lightbox on webpages is slowly teaching people the "touch outside to close" workflow :)
Nov 20 17:29:36 <arfoll> slaine, very true, I still remember when I first saw the gnome desktop... oh wait my opinion still hasn't changed
Nov 20 17:29:37 * RevdKathy realises that too
Nov 20 17:29:40 <slaine> timeless_mbp: hmm, not sure we crossed paths
Nov 20 17:29:44 <sivang> RevdKathy: I never met you , for instance
Nov 20 17:29:46 <slaine> arfoll: lol
Nov 20 17:29:48 <sivang> or did it?
Nov 20 17:29:51 <sivang> *i
Nov 20 17:29:52 <leinir> w00t: *giggles* 'tis decidedly brilliant fun that sort of thing, yeah :)
Nov 20 17:29:54 <w00t> also, RevdKathy, HELLO!
Nov 20 17:30:00 <Jaffa> sivang: I think you did
Nov 20 17:30:01 <w00t> :)
Nov 20 17:30:05 <RevdKathy> sivang you may have done - I was the short female one on the help desk
Nov 20 17:30:14 <RevdKathy> Hiya w00t!
Nov 20 17:30:18 <w00t> literally, on, the help desk?
Nov 20 17:30:22 <w00t> because that would have been amusing
Nov 20 17:30:28 <sivang> my memory has been fading since the 2nd day of the conference :)
Nov 20 17:30:28 <slaine> not sure I'm in any pix
Nov 20 17:30:29 <Jaffa> Not lying on it, like The Fabulous Baker Boys
Nov 20 17:30:29 <timeless_mbp> slaine: google images does not find you :(
Nov 20 17:30:36 <sivang> hey Jaffa
Nov 20 17:30:37 <RevdKathy> Yeah - dancing on the helpdesk after all that Guinness
Nov 20 17:30:44 <GAN900> Smaller conference would've been nice.
Nov 20 17:30:51 <arfoll> i found I was on a russian blog - score!
Nov 20 17:30:52 <w00t> GAN900: regional meetups++
Nov 20 17:31:08 <sivang> I would love to have a developer's summit
Nov 20 17:31:12 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_mbp has a nice short paper about some WTFs in maemo, and there's a lot of howtos available on "doing UI the right way" - alas nobody ever seems to read them, or most people who do actually think "I know better about that"
Nov 20 17:31:13 <GAN900> w00t, yeah, but then you don't get many international people.
Nov 20 17:31:16 <w00t> lbt suggested we have one earlier in the UK as I never got to chat with him.. I was like.. it's not even a week after the conference!
Nov 20 17:31:23 * GAN900 hates the Netbook UX.
Nov 20 17:31:31 <Jaffa> Less booze would've been good on Tuesday.
Nov 20 17:31:33 <Jaffa> Or powering on through.
Nov 20 17:31:46 <w00t> Jaffa: everything in moderation etc.. :)
Nov 20 17:31:46 <RevdKathy> We're looking at a UK meet-up in Feb next time I leave the Duchy
Nov 20 17:31:56 <w00t> I actually spent more time talking than drinking on tuesday
Nov 20 17:32:07 <RevdKathy> Wasn't the booze, Jaffa, it was the dancing.
Nov 20 17:32:10 <w00t> though admittedly part of that was my nearly passing out from low blood sugar due to not getting time to eat at all
Nov 20 17:32:11 <GAN900> Jaffa, willpower. :P
Nov 20 17:32:13 <w00t> :P
Nov 20 17:32:15 <sivang> RevdKathy: dancing?
Nov 20 17:32:17 <sivang> RevdKathy: where?
Nov 20 17:32:23 <GAN900> Wednesday was destroyed for a number of irritating reasons.
Nov 20 17:32:25 <leinir> My personal biggest gripe with the netbook ux is very simple... google the term "mystery meat navigation" ;)
Nov 20 17:32:28 <w00t> RevdKathy: UK meetup in feb sounds good
Nov 20 17:32:36 <slaine> timeless_mbp: I look a lot like my southpark avatar on the meego site
Nov 20 17:32:50 <GAN900> Also: European orange juice is poison.
Nov 20 17:32:52 <lbt> RevdKathy: and I barely got to say hello this time :)
Nov 20 17:32:59 <Jaffa> GAN900: I'd used willpower to go and dance to Brown-Eyed Girl.
Nov 20 17:33:02 <w00t> GAN900: no, *bad* orange juice is poison
Nov 20 17:33:04 <RevdKathy> Some of us were dancing in the Guinness place. A lot were standing still pointing phone-cams. Planning a paper on "How Geeks Relax"
Nov 20 17:33:06 <sivang> DocScrutinizer: we have to think how to improve this...
Nov 20 17:33:08 <Jaffa> Hmm, I think timsamoff may have pictures of that.
Nov 20 17:33:15 <pupnik> Mystery meat navigation (also known as MMN) is a disparaging term coined in 1998 by author and web designer Vincent Flanders to describe a visually attractive but concurrently inefficient, confusing, or abstruse user interface, usually one that is Internet-based[1]. Such interfaces lack a user-centered design, emphasizing aesthetic appearance, white space, and the concealment of relevant information over basic practicality and functionality.
Nov 20 17:33:25 <DawnFoster> RevdKathy & w00t - I think Julien was looking at organizing something in the UK (meetup in London maybe)
Nov 20 17:33:29 <GAN900> w00t, there's no difference between the two, as far as I can tell. :)
Nov 20 17:33:34 <RevdKathy> I saw you in passing a few times, lbt, and we actually together in the music at one point.
Nov 20 17:33:34 <ShadowJK> gan900: did you get one of those 100% raw without fruitmeat kind?
Nov 20 17:33:38 <DocScrutinizer> also in my experience UI designers never talk to users about what those really want, and what they think about the designer's new baby. They are just convinced what they designed is the best thing since sliced bread, and nobody must change any bit of it
Nov 20 17:33:40 <w00t> GAN900: hah
Nov 20 17:33:46 <lbt> RevdKathy: yeah... that was hilarious... how can you stand still with music like that
Nov 20 17:33:51 <timeless_mbp> slaine: oh well :(
Nov 20 17:33:57 <w00t> DawnFoster: sounds cool.. Julien who though? I've a terrible memory for names
Nov 20 17:33:58 <GAN900> ShadowJK, dunno what it was.
Nov 20 17:34:00 <timeless_mbp> you're actually based around dub?
Nov 20 17:34:04 <GAN900> But I'm a Floridian
Nov 20 17:34:09 <GAN900> and I know orange juice
Nov 20 17:34:18 <RevdKathy> lbt: precisely. Very interesting - do people use a camera to avoid engaging with experience?
Nov 20 17:34:20 <leinir> http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/mysterymeatnavigation.html <-- it's about web pages, but it's equally as valid on desktops
Nov 20 17:34:24 <GAN900> whatever is served in Dublin and Barcelona isn't orange juice.
Nov 20 17:34:26 <pupnik> GAN900: why do some have this bitter taste?
Nov 20 17:34:33 <Jaffa> w00t: RevdKathy: DawnFoster: Cool. Tony Percy is trying to as well: offered a venue
Nov 20 17:34:38 <sivang> RevdKathy: I searched for dancing people and could not really find any, so I stayed still :)
Nov 20 17:34:40 <DawnFoster> w00t: @jfourgeaud - french guy in a hat :)
Nov 20 17:34:53 <ShadowJK> GAN900, was it strongly bitter or was it like flavoured water
Nov 20 17:35:03 <timeless_mbp> GAN900: you can get Tropicana
Nov 20 17:35:05 <Jaffa> DawnFoster: Always in the middle of a game of Werewolf
Nov 20 17:35:06 <slaine> GAN900: It was probably that acid they call orange juice 'made from concentrate'
Nov 20 17:35:15 <RevdKathy> DawnFoster, w00t, we were talking Brum, as I fly out of Brum airport on the 16th. I live in the wilds and getting upcountry is a major event
Nov 20 17:35:29 <GAN900> ShadowJK, bitter.
Nov 20 17:35:36 <lbt> rattle+hum .ie  ?
Nov 20 17:35:37 <DawnFoster> can you guys coordinate them here? http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Marketing/Local_MeeGo_Networks
Nov 20 17:35:42 <DawnFoster> just to avoid dublication
Nov 20 17:35:44 <Jaffa> RevdKathy: Ah, Devonwall way; right
Nov 20 17:35:48 <GAN900> timeless_mbp, which is the worst orange juice available here besides Minute Made.
Nov 20 17:35:50 <slaine> DawnFoster: I see you managed to make it to Cornucopia, my wife's favorite eatery in the city center.
Nov 20 17:35:51 <RevdKathy> sivang, should have come down by the speakers. Lots of us dancing there. I can't stand still in that environment.
Nov 20 17:35:56 * Chani notes that not all designers are bad... :) some do actual studies on actual people
Nov 20 17:36:02 <DawnFoster> slaine: ha! it was delicious!
Nov 20 17:36:05 <ShadowJK> gan900: yeah it's the concentrated acid variety like slaine said then probably :)
Nov 20 17:36:18 <RevdKathy> Jaffa: theses days I'm considered 'up country' being 25 miles north of Land's End.
Nov 20 17:36:25 <w00t> Chani: even without studies, using it *yourself* frequently is a really good way to find pain points
Nov 20 17:36:26 <DawnFoster> slaine: all of the good hippie food is near a university :)
Nov 20 17:36:28 <Chani> hmm. looks like dinnertime
Nov 20 17:36:35 <w00t> bon appetit
Nov 20 17:36:36 <slaine> DawnFoster: lol, yeah
Nov 20 17:36:41 <GAN900> ShadowJK, concentrate here doesn't taste like that.
Nov 20 17:36:44 <timeless_mbp> DawnFoster: there's some meego-ish meeting somewhere near HEL "soon"
Nov 20 17:36:46 <timeless_mbp> but i don't know where
Nov 20 17:36:47 <slaine> There's a few good spots around temple bar
Nov 20 17:36:51 <Chani> w00t: indeed, if you don't eat your own dogfood theres something seriously wrong
Nov 20 17:36:52 * GAN900 has never vomitted up Florida oj.
Nov 20 17:36:56 <timeless_mbp> and the coordinators are using a silly "registration required" service
Nov 20 17:36:58 <sivang> w00t: I will be trying to have focus groups as related to me and timeless_mbp 's talk, we'll see how far I can with this.
Nov 20 17:37:13 <Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: you mean the local networks
Nov 20 17:37:21 <ShadowJK> gan900: well it's like the raw juice with the sugars and water removed isn't it..
Nov 20 17:37:25 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: re: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Marketing/Local_MeeGo_Networks
Nov 20 17:37:31 <Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: right
Nov 20 17:37:32 * arfoll feels proud to be that spike in the public OBS
Nov 20 17:37:41 <timeless_mbp> btw, what the heck is w/ the strange wiki page?
Nov 20 17:37:43 <Chani> however, some usability issues are invisible when you've been using the UI too long
Nov 20 17:37:44 <sivang> w00t: just trying to figure out the people to involve, conferences are great opportunity for that and a giveaway like netbooks could have been used to get people's attention and feedback
Nov 20 17:37:57 <timeless_mbp> oh
Nov 20 17:38:01 <timeless_mbp> it isn't a redirect
Nov 20 17:38:03 * Chani found some glaring problems with newbies trying to use the activity manager UI in plasma
Nov 20 17:38:04 <timeless_mbp> it's a page w/ one link
Nov 20 17:38:23 * timeless_mbp sighs
Nov 20 17:38:29 <timeless_mbp> ok, i can't figure out WTF that page is
Nov 20 17:38:33 <timeless_mbp> is it a double redirect?
Nov 20 17:38:40 <Jaffa> DawnFoster: Attempting to organise all the people mentioned towards that page as we speak.
Nov 20 17:38:51 * timeless_mbp *hates* wikis
Nov 20 17:38:58 <sivang> Jaffa: UK meetup?
Nov 20 17:39:16 <DocScrutinizer> w00t: (using it *yourself* frequently is a really good way) not for the majority of developers/designers/whatever
Nov 20 17:40:09 <sivang> arfoll: xbmc ? :)
Nov 20 17:40:23 <arfoll> sivang, aye :-)
Nov 20 17:40:35 <sivang> arfoll: I spotted it couple hours ago already :-D
Nov 20 17:40:38 <DocScrutinizer> w00t: usually the dudes who designed something are much too used to the concept behind it, and never use different alternative methods or even weird useage scenarios
Nov 20 17:40:50 <arfoll> sivang, it's been on the maemo community OBS for 2 months
Nov 20 17:40:53 <w00t> DocScrutinizer: then those people are weird
Nov 20 17:40:55 <slaine> DocScrutinizer: but that's kinda part of the problem too though. Like I said, people's past experiences make them biased about certain approaches. I KNOW that the netbook ux guys worked heavily on the Zones idea and DO use it a lot
Nov 20 17:40:55 <DocScrutinizer> w00t: that's the whole point about testing
Nov 20 17:41:06 <slaine> So for them, it's exactly what they wanted
Nov 20 17:41:37 <GAN900> Installing Ubuntu tonight.
Nov 20 17:42:08 <sivang> slaine: we should have concepts reviewed thoroughly before actually going into investment in to them. Known practice in developing a service is consumer interview and market research.
Nov 20 17:42:09 <DocScrutinizer> slaine: *for them* - yes
Nov 20 17:42:21 <Jaffa> sivang: Aye
Nov 20 17:42:29 * ShadowJK wonders if "read web forums" use case is pleasant on meego
Nov 20 17:42:42 <RevdKathy> slaine - Zones is ok. I want to add the things I use to MyZone and can't work out how: they have put in the things they want, but a link to MY most used apps, for example
Nov 20 17:42:50 <sivang> this case should *not* be an exception, and I mentioned it a couple of times during the talk.
Nov 20 17:42:57 <sivang> (this == meego story)
Nov 20 17:43:12 <DocScrutinizer> sivang: ++ for research
Nov 20 17:43:13 <GAN900> Wish two finger scrolling worked on the trackpad.
Nov 20 17:43:22 <DawnFoster> RevdKathy: you just have to select them as a favorite
Nov 20 17:43:30 <slaine> RevdKathy: In the application panel, there's a little drop pin appears above an icon, click the pin to pin it to the fav's bar
Nov 20 17:43:45 <slaine> Over on the fav's bar, click the pin to unpin the ones you don't want
Nov 20 17:44:10 * ShadowJK recently heard a theory that market research as interviewing potential customers is counterproductive because they give stupid answers and dont really know what they want anyway
Nov 20 17:44:17 <GAN900> and what about the trackpad buttons?
Nov 20 17:44:29 <smoku> GAN900, I didn't manage to get two finger working. but you can scroll just by touching a side of the touchpad and moving to the other.
Nov 20 17:44:29 <GAN900> ShadowJK, ++++
Nov 20 17:44:29 <slaine> sivang: indeed, those UX concepts where designed in-house by Intel as part of the Moblin UX project
Nov 20 17:45:03 <DocScrutinizer> sivang: alas usually such research is biased as well. like in there's a question "does the 7-finger scrolling work smooth enough for you?" but nobody asks user "do you *like* that 7-finger scrolling?"
Nov 20 17:45:38 <RevdKathy> DawnFoster: slaine: thanks! That's brilliant! But I would NEVER have found that for myself. Helps enormously.
Nov 20 17:45:41 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: that's another lie spread by the designers
Nov 20 17:45:48 <slaine> DocScrutinizer: which often leads to design by committee, which never works
Nov 20 17:45:56 <DocScrutinizer> to protect their babies from any interference
Nov 20 17:46:02 <DawnFoster> ShadowJK: market research never produces anything useful when you are talking about something truly new and innovative
Nov 20 17:46:27 <arfoll> slaine, do you agree with the russian UX designer?
Nov 20 17:46:46 <sivang> DocScrutinizer: true, that's why a "like/dislike" survey should compliment the "functionality" research
Nov 20 17:46:57 <slaine> DawnFoster: Moblin used to have a pretty good user guide on the site that answered questions like RevdKathy's one there. Are those guides updated and available for meego ?
Nov 20 17:47:10 <DocScrutinizer> proper competition on usability test setup is something different than silly polls on the pavement
Nov 20 17:47:14 <slaine> arfoll: in principal, though he failed to validate it to any degree at all
Nov 20 17:47:26 <slaine> I've seen what happens with design by committee first hand
Nov 20 17:47:33 <timoph> lbt: is the community obs repos workflow documented in the wiki somewhere? meaning where do I send the sr to (Extras:Testing ?) and what's the stable repo that people should add to get packages that have passed the community QA?
Nov 20 17:47:33 <RevdKathy> Ok, is there an interface that would enable ad hoc networking that I'm missing? Cos my only really serious problem now is that the beastie doesn't see joikuspot
Nov 20 17:47:50 <sivang> ShadowJK: there has to be a balance, ofcourse, but working blindly is bound to crash.
Nov 20 17:47:51 <DawnFoster> http://help.meego.com/
Nov 20 17:48:07 <RevdKathy> Oh timoph - thank you SO much for your post about getting xournal and xchat. As you can see... it worked!
Nov 20 17:48:14 <slaine> DawnFoster: cool
Nov 20 17:48:17 <arfoll> slaine, he was pretty useless, but design by commitee is an interesting thing. I dont care as long as nokia don't come out with something that looks anything like symbian^3
Nov 20 17:48:19 <timoph> RevdKathy: np
Nov 20 17:48:21 <DawnFoster> has basic functionality descriptions & how to's for the installed bits
Nov 20 17:48:23 <slaine> Everyone else, what DawnFoster posted ;)
Nov 20 17:49:04 <slaine> arfoll: yeah, getting a consensus on a design is important, but that's different again.
Nov 20 17:49:38 <DocScrutinizer> e.g multitouch is a flawed concept if there's no alternative method to do same commands, as more often than designers like to believe, user needs to operate a device one-handed
Nov 20 17:49:57 <timoph> RevdKathy: anything else that is missing and should be packaged? I'm thinking of packaging libreoffice next (without the java parts)
Nov 20 17:49:58 <sivang> ShadowJK: going to effort to weed out the productive reponses than the "Stupid" once (although I made quite a lot of improvements to products I worked on by listening to "stupid" remarks) is only expected from anybody wishing to ship a product with large user bases
Nov 20 17:50:33 <sivang> if its for internal use, than no issue at all.
Nov 20 17:50:39 <ShadowJK> On desktop I use tabbed browsing, I love it. If anyone for N900/Maemo5 had asked my opinion on leaving it out, I'd told them to go fuck themselves on a rusty nail. However, in prfactice I love the Maemo5 way much more than fennec's tabbed browsing, and I dont know why
Nov 20 17:51:03 <RevdKathy> timoph I'd like a simple image manip so I can resize and tinker with photos before upload: the internal photo viewer is just a tad too basic. But I don't want the whole gimp
Nov 20 17:51:21 <GAN900> ShadowJK, hehehe
Nov 20 17:52:02 <GAN900> Just wish we had an easy and fast "Open link in background"
Nov 20 17:53:04 <ShadowJK> or an explanation/hint/help why sometimes it says just "open in new window" when I wanted to have "open link in new window", as if I had tapped a non-link despite the link highlighting :)
Nov 20 17:53:14 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: nevertheless N900 is missing a hw menu key - thus breaking one of the 10 commandments of UI design: "if here's alternative HIDs, then allow user to operate the UI by exclusive use of any one of them"
Nov 20 17:53:30 <timoph> RevdKathy: I'll check what's available. shotwell or something..
Nov 20 17:53:33 <GAN900> 25MB RAW files bring it to its knees.
Nov 20 17:53:46 <sivang> Beliving your user "does not know what he wants" is a dangrous excuse to not investing in feedback loops.
Nov 20 17:54:00 <sivang> Even sun listens to her users.
Nov 20 17:54:05 <GAN900> sivang, but it's true in many cases.
Nov 20 17:54:13 <sivang> GAN900: apple?
Nov 20 17:54:18 <GAN900> sivang, yes.
Nov 20 17:55:07 <GAN900> Problem with Apple is that they don't have their users' best interests at heart these days.
Nov 20 17:55:45 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: sorry can't parse your last post
Nov 20 17:55:59 <RevdKathy> timoph: thanks. Shotwell was there, but seems not to available any more. A better media player (one that takes the same mp4s as n900!) would be nice but is far from urgent
Nov 20 17:56:23 <Stskeeps> this netbook asks for a NES emulator..
Nov 20 17:56:30 <timoph> :)
Nov 20 17:59:03 <smoku> BTW if anyone wants to enable right click on ideapad: http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/Ideapad#Touchpad
Nov 20 18:00:16 <lcuk> thanks smoku !
Nov 20 18:00:35 <sivang> GAN900: I don't believe apple do not employ feedback loops and user focus groups.. even if it might appear so.
Nov 20 18:00:41 <ShadowJK> Anyway, for me tabbed browsing isnt really about multitasking, it's a way for me to tell the device in quesion "these are the things I want to read, please prepare them for me so I can have them instantly when I'm done reading this current page"
Nov 20 18:00:56 <timeless_mbp> smoku: ooh!
Nov 20 18:01:02 <sivang> smoku: THANK YOU
Nov 20 18:01:45 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: sadly that isn't how browsers behave
Nov 20 18:01:55 <lcuk> hi folks btw \o
Nov 20 18:02:00 <timeless_mbp> hi
Nov 20 18:02:02 <arfoll> good work smoku
Nov 20 18:02:03 <RevdKathy> ShadowJK for me it's a way of interrupting what I'm reading to check something and then come back to where I was without losing the place.
Nov 20 18:02:14 <lcuk> oh, hey a RevdKathy \o
Nov 20 18:02:25 <ShadowJK> timeless_mbp: but tabbed browsing for the most part achieves it :)
Nov 20 18:02:27 <RevdKathy> Hi lcuk! How're you?
Nov 20 18:02:39 <ShadowJK> revdkathy: yeah that too
Nov 20 18:02:39 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: I *hate* designers who think they can do whatever they like, as they got the excuse they're doing it "in my best interest". Nobody knows about my best interest
Nov 20 18:02:44 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: we get reporters complaining they run out of memory w/ 80 tabs open
Nov 20 18:02:45 <timeless_mbp> ...
Nov 20 18:02:58 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, everything in balance.
Nov 20 18:03:07 <lcuk> I am tired, I just woke up after another very late night drinking with friends :)
Nov 20 18:03:11 <ShadowJK> on desktop I also use tabs as bookmarks
Nov 20 18:03:17 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, on the other side you get Symbian^3.
Nov 20 18:03:17 <ShadowJK> and keep like 150 open
Nov 20 18:03:27 <GAN900> lcuk, how can you keep going?
Nov 20 18:03:30 <ShadowJK> with session mnager to restore after crashes
Nov 20 18:03:31 <DocScrutinizer> ME? no!
Nov 20 18:03:37 <smoku> RevdKathy, good browsers achieve that with the Back key
Nov 20 18:03:40 <DocScrutinizer> never touched a sybian device
Nov 20 18:03:47 <lcuk> GAN900, I was in an Irish bar drinking guinness again
Nov 20 18:03:48 <GAN900> I've sleep 11 hours both last night and before.
Nov 20 18:03:51 <RevdKathy> lcuk: sounds like a nice life. I spent the day on chores. But have had several successes with this ideapad since
Nov 20 18:03:53 * CosmoHill throws his phone at DocScrutinizer 
Nov 20 18:03:55 <lcuk> O#Neills in Bury :)
Nov 20 18:03:56 <CosmoHill> you have now!
Nov 20 18:04:00 <GAN900> lcuk, was it free?
Nov 20 18:04:36 <lcuk> GAN900, no, but it was worth it.
Nov 20 18:04:41 <RevdKathy> smoku no, not the way I want to. I like to follow chains of links and still be able to come back to my start point and compare
Nov 20 18:05:00 <lcuk> after barely spending anything at the conf I had enough to go and enjoy the night :)
Nov 20 18:05:08 <RevdKathy> lcuk: you developed quite the taste for Guinness in the end!
Nov 20 18:05:40 <lcuk> RevdKathy, I cut my hand this morning and it was oozing black blood!
Nov 20 18:05:43 <smoku> RevdKathy, in a good browser if you click on a link and then press back key, you will be at the same page at the same scroll position when you left
Nov 20 18:06:19 <RevdKathy> Yes, but if I click a link in that next page it gets complex. I like to open in a new tab then I can cross reference.
Nov 20 18:06:42 <lbt>  timoph the whole Extras thing is not written yet
Nov 20 18:06:56 <RevdKathy> lcuk: you have a great career ahead in horror movies bleeding black.
Nov 20 18:07:06 <lcuk> RevdKathy, I was telling Rick and Craig about the week and it was great to catch up with them :)
Nov 20 18:07:19 <smoku> RevdKathy, oh. if you want to look at both pages simultaneously - yes. but then the split window is even better option :)
Nov 20 18:07:27 <timeless_mbp> smoku: do you mean backspace?
Nov 20 18:07:33 <timeless_mbp> because backspace in browsers is a *disaster*
Nov 20 18:07:43 <timeless_mbp> it's the fastest way to dataloss
Nov 20 18:07:47 <sivang> GAN900: so apple's success is for knowing better than consumers what they want?
Nov 20 18:07:54 <RevdKathy> lcuk I went into work and buzzed all over people about how great it all was. I think they got fed up *very* quickly
Nov 20 18:08:13 <timeless_mbp> sivang: it's a generally successful strategy
Nov 20 18:08:28 <GAN900> sivang, to an extent.
Nov 20 18:08:32 <timeless_mbp> know what consumers could be convinced to want before they realize they want it
Nov 20 18:08:36 <timeless_mbp> then convince them to want and buy it
Nov 20 18:08:41 <RevdKathy> smoku: I just find the tabbing works comfortably, without fuss. I never have more than about 8 open - not 150.
Nov 20 18:08:50 <smoku> timeless_mbp, that's why I say "good browsers". yes, bad browsers workaround weak state trackin with "just use tabs" excuse
Nov 20 18:09:00 <timeless_mbp> smoku: err
Nov 20 18:09:07 <timeless_mbp> state tracking is a feature of web pages
Nov 20 18:09:12 <timeless_mbp> they generally ask for dataloss
Nov 20 18:09:17 <GAN900> sivang, you'll never have revolutionary design if all of your design is based on studies.
Nov 20 18:09:18 <timeless_mbp> there's very little a browser can do about it
Nov 20 18:09:41 <timeless_mbp> sivang: n.b. you do need to study users after you make your revolutionary design
Nov 20 18:09:49 <timeless_mbp> preferably before it's too late for minor fixes before you ship
Nov 20 18:09:52 * timeless_mbp sighs
Nov 20 18:10:29 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: then, otoh, who really *needs* revolutionary design. Except a few designers to take pride in it?
Nov 20 18:12:39 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: TBH I *hate* those "revolutionary new" designs as much and for same reasons I hate those designers that think "I'm acting in best interest of user" is an excuse for all that "revolutionary" crap
Nov 20 18:13:17 <RevdKathy> Tell me I don't need a separate log-in for meego bugs? It's deja vu all ovber again.
Nov 20 18:13:19 <sivang> timeless_mbp: but if the dislike my revo design , what do I do?
Nov 20 18:13:35 <lbt> RevdKathy: you don't
Nov 20 18:13:45 <sivang> *they
Nov 20 18:13:50 <timeless_mbp> sivang: for something revolutionary, it isn't quite about dislike
Nov 20 18:14:00 <timeless_mbp> it's about whether with some time it works for them
Nov 20 18:14:19 <RevdKathy> lbt: I go through the meego.com page and reach 'log in' - I was logged in on the last page!
Nov 20 18:14:21 <timeless_mbp> an initial negative reaction for something revolutionary is to be expected most of the time
Nov 20 18:14:42 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_mbp: and for a good reason
Nov 20 18:14:43 <lbt> RevdKathy: it is pretty flakey IIRC
Nov 20 18:15:06 <GAN900> RevdKathy, login to meego.com, reload bz.
Nov 20 18:15:08 <sivang> timeless_mbp: and then, in due time, we hope for the users to get used to it?
Nov 20 18:15:25 <GAN900> sivang, if it's actually worthwhile design, they will.
Nov 20 18:15:42 <DocScrutinizer> why should they
Nov 20 18:15:43 <DocScrutinizer> ?
Nov 20 18:15:46 <RevdKathy> I AM logged into meego.com. I followed logged in links all the way to that damned dinosaur and it ate my log in.
Nov 20 18:16:35 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, because it's more efficient and more powerful than the older alternatives?
Nov 20 18:16:56 <lbt> it's not sso... you need to login using the same user/passwd
Nov 20 18:17:19 * lbt isn't sure about bugs site
Nov 20 18:17:35 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: because they give that "revolutionary new" crap a second, third, 12th try after the initial MEH and dumping it? or just because some benevolent dictator is shoving that "new" crap down everybody's throat so they got now other choice than eat it or leave it?
Nov 20 18:17:55 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, whatever.
Nov 20 18:18:11 <sivang> GAN900: what happens if the design isn't worthwhile, how do you define worthwhile anyways?
Nov 20 18:18:26 <GAN900> sivang, efficiency and power, for my own usage.
Nov 20 18:18:57 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: that's a really huge and evil misconception about how user oriented develpment works
Nov 20 18:19:04 <GAN900> I hated tabbed browsing when it first arrived and couldn't envision any purpose to it.
Nov 20 18:19:28 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, again, whatever, I don't feel like holding a design war anymore.
Nov 20 18:20:00 <ShadowJK> I was instantly a fan :)
Nov 20 18:20:40 <DocScrutinizer> and I don't feel like contributing to the hierarchical dictator model of development anymore, when the dudes in command are unaware about such things
Nov 20 18:20:40 <ShadowJK> mostly because of its side-effect of removing lots of waiting
Nov 20 18:21:04 <smoku> ShadowJK, do you use Alt+1,2,... ?
Nov 20 18:21:12 <ShadowJK> no
Nov 20 18:21:34 <lcuk> RevdKathy, saw this on Ricks fridge: http://liqbase.net/onelife.photo.jpg
Nov 20 18:23:03 <ShadowJK> tabs are back button that has no 10-60 second delay, tabs are bookmarks that are instant, tabs create a tree of my most visited sites. tabs are a queue for putting things I want to read into a queue, from which I can get the thing instantly
Nov 20 18:23:22 <DocScrutinizer> where "such things" in my last statement applies not only to UI design but also to general system architecture decisions
Nov 20 18:24:08 <RevdKathy> lcuk: Deuteronomy 30:19 "Choose Life"
Nov 20 18:24:08 <ShadowJK> It would be absolutely fantastic if someone invented something that made all those tab use-cases obsolete, but I think it's a very difficult thing :)
Nov 20 18:24:53 <lcuk> :)
Nov 20 18:25:04 * thiago_home would really like if someone invented holographic projection screens
Nov 20 18:25:23 <GAN900> thiago_home, wouldn't we all.
Nov 20 18:25:52 <lcuk> thiago_home, hmm there are various designs for volumetric displays
Nov 20 18:26:55 <thiago_home> CSI has it
Nov 20 18:27:00 <lcuk> :D
Nov 20 18:27:10 <ShadowJK> I remember at one point using that mozilla suite thing, with some mailing list archives on the web it would automatically load the next mail beforehand, and it was really quick to read through
Nov 20 18:27:32 <fcrochik> has anybody figured out how to resize the brtfs partition on the ideapad so another os can be installed?
Nov 20 18:28:00 * thiago_home created a smaller partition for that purpose alone
Nov 20 18:28:26 <lcuk> which OS did you put on thiago_home ?
Nov 20 18:28:37 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: such hierarchical models may work on commercial environments, like Nokia. Where some managers decide a bug is WONTFIX just because they don't consider it worth the 5 lines of code being ritten that's needed to fix it. For a FOSS community project like meego I refuse to accept such irreverence
Nov 20 18:28:39 <thiago_home> right now, none
Nov 20 18:28:47 * lcuk is not dualbooting it, but a dual ui would be good
Nov 20 18:28:49 <thiago_home> I'll probably install other versions of meego
Nov 20 18:28:52 <thiago_home> handset, for example
Nov 20 18:29:00 <lcuk> did I see instructions for switching between handset/netbook ux?
Nov 20 18:29:05 <GAN900> DocScrutinizer, different argument.
Nov 20 18:29:16 <thiago_home> I didn't, so I thought I might install a separate one
Nov 20 18:29:17 <DocScrutinizer> absolutely not
Nov 20 18:29:26 <fcrochik> thiago_home: did you resize the one created by the original meego setup or started all over?
Nov 20 18:30:30 <thiago_home> fcrochik: neither. I created a smaller one (40G) right from the start
Nov 20 18:32:02 <arfoll> use btrfsctl -r
Nov 20 18:32:06 <fcrochik> thiago_home: that is what I was afraid... I used the usb stick and it did take over the entire hard drive with one brtfs partition....now I can resize within and haven't found another dist that will
Nov 20 18:32:54 <arfoll> fcrochik, btrfs does online resizing use that tool
Nov 20 18:33:06 <fcrochik> arfoll: I can't because it is the root partition....I have to boot some other distro that supports brtfs...any suggestions?
Nov 20 18:33:28 <sivang> very interesting article, however implies about Apple's stealth "focus group" strategy :) http://www.pragmaticmarketing.com/publications/magazine/6/4/you_cant_innovate_like_apple
Nov 20 18:33:32 <fcrochik> arfoll: does it? it did not let me do anything with the mounted volume
Nov 20 18:33:53 <sivang> pay attention to the paragraph right after the "What would we like to own?" question.
Nov 20 18:34:06 <arfoll> fcrochik, take out the drive connect it to any recent distribution (i used arch linux)
Nov 20 18:35:21 <fcrochik> arfoll: take out? its is a netbook.... :(
Nov 20 18:37:02 <timeless_mbp> thiago: how did you resize paritions?
Nov 20 18:37:14 <DawnFoster> thp: ping
Nov 20 18:37:14 <arfoll> fcrochik, 4 screws take out the backcover there is a tab to take out the hard drive
Nov 20 18:37:16 <arfoll> real easy
Nov 20 18:39:08 <fcrochik> arfoll: I was hiping for a less "involved" process...worst come to worst I will just start all over the meego install but would prefer not have to
Nov 20 18:39:22 <fcrochik> helping I meant
Nov 20 18:40:54 <arfoll> in that case download the latest arch installer, write it with dd to a USB stick and btrfs support is in the latest image
Nov 20 18:41:35 <fcrochik> arfoll: I will try...thanks!
Nov 20 18:41:49 <arfoll> actually it may not be but you can install the btrfs tools with pacman in the 'live' environment
Nov 20 18:42:14 <arfoll> doesnt ubuntu 10.10 support btrfs?
Nov 20 18:43:18 <fcrochik> arfoll: I just created a bootable stick...will find out soon....the first I tried with the netbook edition I couldn't use the keyboard for some reason
Nov 20 18:50:50 <sivang> as interesting, "You need to focus" and "You need to know your customer and your market"
Nov 20 18:51:09 <smoku> timeless_mbp, well.. Just posted bugs for my experience with netbook ui. we'll se ;-)
Nov 20 18:51:24 <timeless_mbp> smoku: i'll look in a bit
Nov 20 18:51:28 <timeless_mbp> i'm fixing an hg ux issue now
Nov 20 18:51:31 <DocScrutinizer> sivang: thanks for that awesome link
Nov 20 18:52:03 <fcrochik> smoku: where did you post? bugs.meego? I have some too
Nov 20 18:52:21 <smoku> fcrochik, yes. bugs.meego.com
Nov 20 18:53:25 <sivang> DocScrutinizer: you are welcome :)
Nov 20 18:55:22 <timeless_mbp> ok, so, hg ux work done
Nov 20 18:55:26 <timeless_mbp> back to this window...
Nov 20 18:55:39 <timeless_mbp> right, so um... anyone have a "solution" for my multiboot problem?
Nov 20 18:55:47 <timeless_mbp> or should i just document w7 first?
Nov 20 18:56:25 <fcrochik> has anybody noticed that checkboxes don't show up on dialogs? I noticed on qt creator
Nov 20 18:56:31 <timeless_mbp> http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/meego/firstrun/ was my last experience w/ meego
Nov 20 18:59:42 <smoku> another outcome of the conference for me... I reinstalled my laptop to OpenSUSE and so far lovin' it :)
Nov 20 19:00:48 <fcrochik> smoku: any obvious reasons why would be better than ubuntu for development?
Nov 20 19:01:30 <smoku> fcrochik, seems snappier. and gives non-broken GNOME experience
Nov 20 19:01:55 <fcrochik> smoku: I installed ubuntu 10.10 before I found out that qemu does not work on it....so now I have to start over
Nov 20 19:01:59 <smoku> fcrochik, ergo - none. purely subjective ;-)
Nov 20 19:02:37 <smoku> fcrochik, quemu worked fine on my 10.10. at least the user mode required for mic2 and osc
Nov 20 19:03:34 <fcrochik> smoku: I couldn't start the meego image and then I heard during the convention that there was a bug and decided to give up
Nov 20 19:04:21 <smoku> fcrochik, I actually never installed SDK yet ;-)
Nov 20 19:04:28 <Chani> smoku: opensuse ftw :) i'm really stsrting to like this distro
Nov 20 19:05:03 <fcrochik> it is not debian based, right?
Nov 20 19:05:03 <lcuk> why did you guys remove meego from your meego netbook?
Nov 20 19:05:17 <DawnFoster> Just published my blog post about the conference: http://fastwonderblog.com/2010/11/20/meego-conference-geeks-in-dublin/
Nov 20 19:05:34 <smoku> lcuk, for me the netbook UI is simply unusable
Nov 20 19:05:39 * thiago_home reads
Nov 20 19:05:48 <fcrochik> lcuk: I don't want to remove just want to install some other more complete disto sideways
Nov 20 19:05:55 <smoku> lcuk, but I'm going to try packaging Unity and try again
Nov 20 19:06:30 <thiago_home> DawnFoster: shall I add you to the wrap-up part of the wiki?
Nov 20 19:06:58 <smoku> lcuk, and comparing to smeegol the application selection and the simple count of administration aplets looked so lacking
Nov 20 19:07:05 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: the meego netbook didn't come w/ meego :)
Nov 20 19:07:16 <timeless_mbp> well, if you could "meego on a stick" as meego, i guess it does..
Nov 20 19:07:24 <DawnFoster> thiago: ha! was just editing that page :)
Nov 20 19:08:02 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, the point was to leave the room with meego installed and that was what the greatest majority did.
Nov 20 19:08:14 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: yep
Nov 20 19:08:23 <timeless_mbp> but i got to do more demos of clunky ui's :)
Nov 20 19:08:39 <timeless_mbp> i'll document my meego-ideapad firstrun experience later
Nov 20 19:08:47 <smoku> fcrochik, SuSE started as "RedHat done right" and came a long way since.
Nov 20 19:09:20 * timeless_mbp goes to take pictures of things w7 does right
Nov 20 19:09:29 <timeless_mbp> (they're rare, but worth noting when they happen)
Nov 20 19:09:44 <sivang> DocScrutinizer: In my world, there are no free meals. but I thank GAN900 for igniting my curiousity about apple's process, for otherwise I'd never come across it and would have thought they just get away without focus groups and market research and knowing the context in which they operate.
Nov 20 19:10:06 <timeless_mbp> hrm
Nov 20 19:10:13 * timeless_mbp wonders how meego handles resume
Nov 20 19:10:32 <timeless_mbp> windows has a menu you can enter which lets you discard your restore state and boot from scratch
Nov 20 19:10:51 <lpotter> it disables the touchscreen on my asus when it suspends/resumes
Nov 20 19:10:59 <sivang> timeless_mbp: there's an issue with 1.1, if you go to power off and accidently close the lid, it will suspend
Nov 20 19:11:16 <sivang> timeless_mbp: on resume, you're stuck black screened and have to poweroff 2 sec sequence
Nov 20 19:11:24 <timeless_mbp> sivang: people @conf think it's a feature
Nov 20 19:11:32 <timeless_mbp> (i.e. unfiled bug)
Nov 20 19:12:41 <fcrochik> sivang: ah.... so that was what happened with me earlier today :)
Nov 20 19:13:48 <sivang> fcrochik: yep, a known issue we had in ubuntu, I'm trying to dig if it got fixed or what
Nov 20 19:14:12 <sivang> timeless_mbp: I see
Nov 20 19:15:21 <sivang> timeless_mbp: need to fill that one about resizing broken as well, /me starts a "to be filed" bug list
Nov 20 19:15:29 <timeless_mbp> oh borther
Nov 20 19:15:32 <timeless_mbp> s/borther/brother/
Nov 20 19:15:33 <infobot> timeless_mbp meant: oh brother
Nov 20 19:15:46 * timeless_mbp kicks Windows Live Essentials 2011 [installer] in the ass
Nov 20 19:15:59 <timeless_mbp> it was part of my 44 or so software updates
Nov 20 19:16:08 <timeless_mbp> and insisted on showing me a "Done" dialog
Nov 20 19:18:05 <sivang> timeless_mbp: how can I know if it did not already get fixed in daily's snapshot?
Nov 20 19:18:30 <sivang> also, anybody knwos what's the way to upgrade as per daily snapshots?(rather then re-installing image repeatitvly)
Nov 20 19:18:40 <sivang> as in, sudo apt-get upgrade
Nov 20 19:21:01 <Bostik> zypper refresh && zypper update ?
Nov 20 19:21:30 <sivang> Bostik: how do I specify a version for the repo, so I want to get 1.1.80 or something
Nov 20 19:23:04 * sivang -> out
Nov 20 19:24:12 <Bostik> that's a good question, and honestly I don't know
Nov 20 19:24:40 <Bostik> mainly because I haven't had the urge/need to do that so far
Nov 20 19:27:16 <timeless_mbp> generally that isn't supported
Nov 20 19:28:44 <sivang> timeless_mbp: I was thinking "debian unstable"
Nov 20 19:29:20 <timeless_mbp> i don't think unstable lets you pick a time for a world
Nov 20 19:29:38 <timeless_mbp> you might be able to get one component at a version, but in general in debian it won't do what you want
Nov 20 19:30:40 <sivang> timeless_mbp: sorry, I was unclear. I just want to run the latest, such that if a package gets updated with fixes, I will be able to test etc. I don't really care about the time.
Nov 20 19:30:49 <timeless_mbp> oh
Nov 20 19:31:03 <sivang> timeless_mbp: and will be able to inspect changelog on upgrade, as with synaptic or update-manager
Nov 20 19:31:06 <timeless_mbp> that's totally incompatible w/ your question of "i want to get 1.1.80" :)
Nov 20 19:31:18 <sivang> timeless_mbp: yes, was giving it as an example:)
Nov 20 19:31:28 <sivang> sorry for being unclear
Nov 20 19:32:37 <sivang> anyway, laters
Nov 20 19:41:18 <Jay_BEE> hi
Nov 20 19:44:21 <smoku> Chani, after installing subpixel font rendering opensuse looks even better :D
Nov 20 19:45:01 * Jay_BEE takes a look at bug 9723
Nov 20 19:45:04 <_MeeGoBot_> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9723 enh, Undecided, ---, nm, ACCE, [FEA] Add Das u-boot package
Nov 20 19:46:38 <Jay_BEE> seems nm isn't able to edit the 'target build' field in bugzilla for this bug :(
Nov 20 19:48:52 <Jay_BEE> ^bug^enhancement
Nov 20 19:55:43 <arfoll> my netbook beeps at me when I turn it on....
Nov 20 20:04:13 <Chani> huh. everyone disappeared.
Nov 20 20:04:17 * Chani goes home
Nov 20 20:04:50 <rhkfin> http://risto.kurppa.fi/blog/2010/11/first-experiences-with-meego/
Nov 20 20:10:32 <timeless_mbp> oh
Nov 20 20:10:36 <timeless_mbp> in case people are wondering...
Nov 20 20:10:55 <timeless_mbp> on Windows 7, your ideapads can auto rotate the screen to match the orientation in which your pad is being held
Nov 20 20:11:18 <timeless_mbp> the lenovo people were clever though, it seems to be hidden in its own app instead of near control panel
Nov 20 20:11:22 <thiago_home> that means there's a sensor for the screen rotated
Nov 20 20:11:40 <timeless_mbp> seems to be more like a gyroscope in the pad, i think
Nov 20 20:11:45 <timeless_mbp> i haven't spent enough time attacking it
Nov 20 20:11:59 <timeless_mbp> because it works as i move the pad around in 3space
Nov 20 20:12:05 <timeless_mbp> not just the swivel screen
Nov 20 20:12:39 <dm8tbr> accel/gyro is pretty standard issue nowadays.
Nov 20 20:12:41 <timeless_mbp> oh, and there's a good reason it's off by default
Nov 20 20:12:45 <timeless_mbp> it's too easily jostled
Nov 20 20:12:52 <timeless_mbp> and the behavior more or less sucks :)
Nov 20 20:13:25 <thiago_home> dm8tbr: I don't think it's that sensor
Nov 20 20:13:36 <thiago_home> I saw it rotate when you closed the screen in the reverse position
Nov 20 20:13:46 <w00t> I heard someone say it had an accelerometer at some point
Nov 20 20:14:04 <thiago_home> so it must be a simple contact sensor
Nov 20 20:14:43 <gabrbedd> any idea what sensor the lenovo is using?
Nov 20 20:14:53 <gabrbedd> I can't seem to find anything in lsusb or lspci
Nov 20 20:15:13 * gabrbedd might be blind, though.
Nov 20 20:15:35 <timeless_mbp> yeah, this is different
Nov 20 20:15:44 <timeless_mbp> there's a contact sensor which is probably always enabled
Nov 20 20:15:52 <timeless_mbp> which does the basic rotate for swivel/close stuff
Nov 20 20:15:55 <timeless_mbp> this is different
Nov 20 20:16:26 <Saviq> daaamn what a backlog...
Nov 20 20:16:29 <timeless_mbp> there's definitely some accelerometer stuff in the hard drive
Nov 20 20:16:36 <timeless_mbp> there's software to do magic stuff there
Nov 20 20:16:59 <timeless_mbp> iirc firefox has code to support exposing accelerometer using hdd agents :)
Nov 20 20:17:08 <Saviq> lbt: RPMLINT warns about no python-base dependency in packages, but there's no python-base available in the repos
Nov 20 20:17:19 <Stskeeps> Saviq: file a bug please
Nov 20 20:17:32 <Saviq> any particular component?
Nov 20 20:17:37 <Stskeeps> Saviq: package manager?
Nov 20 20:18:05 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: Using the accel. in the hard drive -- that's a smart idea.
Nov 20 20:18:28 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: Do you know which firefox has this hack?
Nov 20 20:18:39 <timeless_mbp> gabrbedd: it'd be mozilla-central
Nov 20 20:18:46 <timeless_mbp> i haven't looked for the code
Nov 20 20:18:54 <Saviq> hmm 'Packaging tools' sounds better
Nov 20 20:18:54 <timeless_mbp> mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/ ...
Nov 20 20:19:32 <Saviq> Stskeeps: does a bug concerning the community OBS actually fits into bugs.meego.com?
Nov 20 20:19:32 <niala> sivang: I've see your email, to change your meego to meego trunk you must
Nov 20 20:19:32 <niala> 1: add new repo in /etc/zypp/repos.d  http://pastebin.com/QiEvn6pR 2) install release package 'zypper install meego-release' 3) upgrade dist 'zypper dup'
Nov 20 20:19:59 <Stskeeps> Saviq: same software in use
Nov 20 20:20:05 <Saviq> that I know
Nov 20 20:20:10 <Saviq> so probably makes sense
Nov 20 20:20:14 <Stskeeps> Saviq: rpmlint and rpm is taken as-is, so file a bug
Nov 20 20:20:42 <timeless_mbp> Saviq: don't worry too much about getting bugs into the right component
Nov 20 20:20:51 <timeless_mbp> a healthy bug tracker will have people who will fix the component for you
Nov 20 20:21:03 <timeless_mbp> just get a healthy bug w/ the right info filed
Nov 20 20:21:23 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: Looks like this is it... http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/system/unix/
Nov 20 20:22:24 <timeless_mbp> seems right
Nov 20 20:22:42 <timeless_mbp> you might want to see if the ideapad has that path
Nov 20 20:22:49 <timeless_mbp> since it is a lenovo which is related to thinkpad :)
Nov 20 20:23:37 <gabrbedd> Looking at the code... looks like it's tying into a kernel driver via /sys/devices/platform/blah/blah
Nov 20 20:23:44 <timeless_mbp> yep
Nov 20 20:25:42 <lcuk> anyone know how I can make the cursor flash in editors
Nov 20 20:26:25 <timeless_mbp> caret or mouse cursor?
Nov 20 20:26:28 <odin_> as in text mode ? editor ?
Nov 20 20:27:02 <lcuk> text entry boxes
Nov 20 20:27:13 <lcuk> the cursor is limegreen on white background and doesn't flash
Nov 20 20:27:13 <odin_> of Qt GUI widgets ?
Nov 20 20:27:16 <lcuk> its the same in gedit
Nov 20 20:27:41 <niala> question: to answer an email from meego-dev i must do: answer to the list or only answer ?
Nov 20 20:27:54 <Stskeeps> both
Nov 20 20:27:56 <thiago_home> niala: "reply to list"
Nov 20 20:28:03 <niala> ty
Nov 20 20:28:18 <lbt> meh... reply-all
Nov 20 20:28:23 * arfoll just has XBMC rc1 with touchscreen on his lenovo netbook!
Nov 20 20:28:28 <lbt> DawnFoster: ping
Nov 20 20:28:40 <Stskeeps> arfoll: woo
Nov 20 20:31:03 <odin_> lcuk, well often text box entry cursor blinking is turned off for X11 application, as I believe it requires the application to keep sending a data stream in sympathy with it (which is not good on network bandwidth or battery usage), I think that is the history of the why, as for the solution ???
Nov 20 20:31:42 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: my ideapad does not have that path. (S10-3t)
Nov 20 20:31:53 <timeless_mbp> gabrbedd: oh well :)
Nov 20 20:32:03 <timeless_mbp> got any paths that end in those two file names? :)
Nov 20 20:33:08 <lcuk> odin_, it blinks on gedit on my other laptop
Nov 20 20:33:25 <lcuk> unless due to the compositing now theres a drastic requirement not to
Nov 20 20:34:48 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: Nope.  But you've given me an awesome clue on where to look for all this stuff... and that's worth a thousand entries in /sys
Nov 20 20:34:48 <lcuk> odin_, the color does not help its case in gedit - in other places its an alternative color and thicker
Nov 20 20:36:49 <DocScrutinizer> gabrbedd: timeless_mbp: not all drives have a g-meter, and even for those that do, there's for sure no standard API to get any data about orientation across (S)ATA
Nov 20 20:37:20 * timeless_mbp nods
Nov 20 20:37:21 <gabrbedd> DocScrutinizer: Yeah, but before I deleted Windows -- I think this thing /did/ have some accelerometer smarts.
Nov 20 20:37:22 <DocScrutinizer> I.E. using g-meter of a drive is a very specailized non-partable hack
Nov 20 20:37:35 <timeless_mbp> i'm still using w7 on it
Nov 20 20:37:42 <timeless_mbp> partially to figure out what features it has
Nov 20 20:37:49 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: sure
Nov 20 20:37:58 <timeless_mbp> but sometimes you just want to support the feature
Nov 20 20:38:12 <timeless_mbp> and are willing to pay for the cost of supporting lots of stupid systems
Nov 20 20:38:16 <timeless_mbp> until they're standardized
Nov 20 20:39:37 <timeless_mbp> oh cute
Nov 20 20:39:49 <timeless_mbp> "VeriTouch" lets me make a stroke to lock or reboot my computer
Nov 20 20:40:09 <timeless_mbp> and "VeriFace" lets me leave a message at the login screen
Nov 20 20:41:39 <thiago_home> houw about VeriSign?
Nov 20 20:42:12 <thp> lcuk: gnome-keyboard-properties, "Cursor blinking" maybe?
Nov 20 20:43:33 <gabrbedd> thiago_home: It charges $3000 to your credit card for a certificate.
Nov 20 20:47:23 <timeless_mbp> hrm
Nov 20 20:47:38 <timeless_mbp> has anyone here played w/ w7 dashboard widgets?
Nov 20 20:47:56 <timeless_mbp> they have very easy to use snap too behaviors
Nov 20 20:48:01 <timeless_mbp> (unlike say.... maemo)
Nov 20 20:48:02 <marnanel> in case anyone wants to beta test MeeGo robotfindskitten → http://marnanel.dreamwidth.org/174015.html
Nov 20 20:48:35 <timeless_mbp> marnanel: hint: you don't want the app name to wrap inconveniently ...
Nov 20 20:48:49 <marnanel> timeless_mbp: this is true, but I'm not sure what to do about it
Nov 20 20:48:56 <marnanel> timeless_mbp: it would look almost as bad with spaces
Nov 20 20:49:10 <timeless_mbp> Robot Finds Kitten
Nov 20 20:49:24 <timeless_mbp> ... still better than
Nov 20 20:49:27 <timeless_mbp> robotfindskitte
Nov 20 20:49:27 <timeless_mbp> n
Nov 20 20:49:39 <marnanel> timeless_mbp: well yeah, but the name of the game is specifically "robotfindskitten", and it would look like I didn't know that (maybe)
Nov 20 20:49:53 <marnanel> (not my choice of name!)
Nov 20 20:50:19 <timeless_mbp> anyone annoying enough not to understand you're trying to target mortals deserves to be beaten with a usability bat
Nov 20 20:51:33 <marnanel> you have a good point :)
Nov 20 20:52:05 <timeless_mbp> thank you
Nov 20 20:52:12 <lcuk> thp, thanks I will look later
Nov 20 20:53:24 <timeless_mbp> ooh
Nov 20 20:53:34 <timeless_mbp> the windows 7 taskbar clock lets me add 2 extra clocks
Nov 20 20:53:40 <timeless_mbp> (for alternate time zones)
Nov 20 20:53:43 <lbt> marnanel: would you care to put robotfindskitten on the OBS ?
Nov 20 20:54:36 <marnanel> lbt: I would love to.  First I will have to read up on how to use the OBS though :)
Nov 20 20:54:50 <lbt> what's your meego.com account?
Nov 20 20:54:54 <marnanel> tthurman
Nov 20 20:55:07 <lbt> we want to encourage ppa-s
Nov 20 20:55:27 <lbt> maemo had issues with scattered repos so ... :)
Nov 20 20:55:38 <lbt> done
Nov 20 20:56:01 <lbt> use meego credentials at https://build.pub.meego.com/
Nov 20 20:56:23 <timeless_mbp> hey.... someone was asking about blinking cursors on meego?
Nov 20 20:56:29 <timeless_mbp> Windows lets me do stuff about that...
Nov 20 20:56:33 <marnanel> yay, thanks.  (I will get on that later this evening when I've finished tidying the kitchen)
Nov 20 20:56:45 <lbt> hehe ... I just finished ;)
Nov 20 20:57:03 <arfoll> lbt, I've noticed the repos on the new OBS are on crepo.meego.com - is that normal?
Nov 20 20:57:25 <timeless_mbp> eep
Nov 20 20:57:31 <timeless_mbp> there's a carousel in here too
Nov 20 20:57:32 <lbt> no... we only got DNS changed on saturday
Nov 20 20:57:50 <timeless_mbp> hey, does meego have a sound recorder app?
Nov 20 20:57:54 <timeless_mbp> i keep telling people i need one
Nov 20 20:57:59 <lbt> the old c* names are deprecated.... but we've not been home long enough to fix 'em
Nov 20 20:58:01 <timeless_mbp> -- maemo doesn't ship w/ one
Nov 20 20:58:08 <timeless_mbp> symbian iiuc did
Nov 20 20:58:11 <timeless_mbp> (s60)
Nov 20 20:58:22 <lbt> arfoll: specifically where?
Nov 20 20:58:34 <arfoll> when you click on the repo through the links from OBS
Nov 20 20:58:56 <smoku> lbt, is build.pub open, or are you just testing?
Nov 20 20:59:01 <lbt> smoku: open
Nov 20 20:59:04 <arfoll> lbt, no wait - it's from my *.repo files
Nov 20 20:59:07 <Saviq> and alive!
Nov 20 20:59:11 <lbt> arfoll: by "specifically" I meant....
Nov 20 20:59:12 <smoku> lbt, I cannot log in with my meego account
Nov 20 20:59:24 <lbt> smoku: tell me your meego account
Nov 20 20:59:29 <smoku> lbt, smoku
Nov 20 20:59:38 <lbt> done
Nov 20 20:59:51 <lbt> arfoll: ah...
Nov 20 20:59:53 <lbt> eek
Nov 20 21:00:02 <Mek> alive and non-stop busy for the past 10 hours at least
Nov 20 21:00:07 <arfoll> lbt, guessing it's not normal then ;-)
Nov 20 21:00:08 <smoku> lbt, oh. so it's not really open but 'after approval', right?
Nov 20 21:00:30 <lbt> smoku: meh... we'll figure it out
Nov 20 21:00:34 <timeless_mbp> smoku: requiring signup isn't really closed
Nov 20 21:00:41 <timeless_mbp> not offering sign up is closed
Nov 20 21:01:04 <lbt> it is open but we're just early days...
Nov 20 21:01:21 <lbt> irc is like our captcha ;)
Nov 20 21:01:24 <smoku> timeless_mbp, sure. but every other *.meego.com part "just works"
Nov 20 21:02:04 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_mbp: what's about non-printing-whitespace or similar in long icon names?
Nov 20 21:02:14 <timeless_mbp> ?
Nov 20 21:02:17 <smoku> lbt, i get it. :)
Nov 20 21:02:44 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_mbp: robot\005finds\005kitten
Nov 20 21:02:48 <smoku> lbt, so, may I move my obs.maemo.org stuff there?
Nov 20 21:02:51 <DocScrutinizer> something like that
Nov 20 21:02:55 * timeless_mbp slaps DocScrutinizer 
Nov 20 21:03:16 <timeless_mbp> DocScrutinizer: "Tetris" is a better name than "Blocks"
Nov 20 21:03:17 <lbt> smoku: asap (but we don't have a fremantle setup just yet... it will come)
Nov 20 21:03:32 <smoku> lbt, i have only MeeGo stuff
Nov 20 21:03:47 <smoku> and compiling it against 1.1 would be nice :)
Nov 20 21:03:53 <lbt> smoku: fabo_ may have some scripts that could help
Nov 20 21:04:18 <lbt> smoku: could you clean up behind when you're happy... ask others to do the same
Nov 20 21:04:30 <smoku> lbt, sure.
Nov 20 21:04:31 <lbt> will make it easier to close down
Nov 20 21:04:39 <lbt> mmm
Nov 20 21:07:05 <DocScrutinizer> timeless_mbp: while I tend to agree on "Tetris" I don't really get your point
Nov 20 21:08:22 <smoku> will 'MeeGo Extras' repositories work like 'Maemo Extras'?
Nov 20 21:09:18 <fcrochik> lbt: how can I get access to the obs? I would like to contribute some ports of applications I developed for the n900
Nov 20 21:09:28 <Saviq> smoku: check out http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder
Nov 20 21:09:33 <lcuk> RevdKathy, :) another awesome posting
Nov 20 21:09:45 <lcuk> http://revdkathy.livejournal.com/
Nov 20 21:09:53 <Saviq> fcrochik: say your name, say your name (i.e. your OBS name)
Nov 20 21:09:55 <RevdKathy> Is it ok?
Nov 20 21:10:18 <lcuk> you are now more technically advanced on it than me!
Nov 20 21:10:20 <lbt> fcrochik: Saviq means your meego.com account name
Nov 20 21:10:27 <lcuk> hey david \o
Nov 20 21:10:34 <Saviq> ^ yeah, that...
Nov 20 21:10:35 <lbt> hi
Nov 20 21:10:43 <smoku> Saviq, google didn't give me this page. isn't wiki indexed?
Nov 20 21:10:45 <fcrochik> lbt: my meego.com account is fcrochik
Nov 20 21:10:58 <Saviq> smoku: might not be just yet, it's quite new AFAIK
Nov 20 21:11:01 <lbt> done
Nov 20 21:11:18 <lbt> it often is the same as irc... but not always
Nov 20 21:11:24 <lbt> lcuk: recovering ?
Nov 20 21:12:04 <smoku> Saviq, oh. i get it. extras section added today :)
Nov 20 21:12:14 <fcrochik> lbt: any doc with instructions or anything I should know? I assume this is how I can build an application that eventually will end up on the garage...is that right?
Nov 20 21:12:26 <lbt> correct...
Nov 20 21:12:45 <lbt> there are docs somewhere
Nov 20 21:12:57 <smoku> lbt, is there no option to build for MeeGo current?  I don't see it on add_repository_from_default_list
Nov 20 21:13:00 <lbt> check Saviq's link
Nov 20 21:13:19 <arfoll> smoku, click the advanced interface or w/e it's called
Nov 20 21:13:21 <lbt> smoku: no... it's not there by default. Can be done though
Nov 20 21:13:58 <smoku> fcrochik, go to opensuse wiki and search for "obs" there. they have pretty extensive OBS documentation
Nov 20 21:14:05 <lbt> build against       MeeGo current Extras Netbook
Nov 20 21:14:08 <timeless_mbp> yay,
Nov 20 21:14:10 * timeless_mbp crashes ie
Nov 20 21:14:10 <lcuk> lbt yeah muchly
Nov 20 21:14:23 <lcuk> I went out to an Irish bar last night and drunk guinness all night with some friends :)
Nov 20 21:14:29 <lcuk> hair of the dog :P
Nov 20 21:14:32 <lbt> for a change...
Nov 20 21:14:39 <smoku> fcrochik, or just go to http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service :)
Nov 20 21:14:59 <lcuk> haha
Nov 20 21:14:59 <fcrochik> lbt: what is the obs url for meego again? can't remember or find
Nov 20 21:15:21 <lbt> nobody tell him unless he promises to edit the wiki
Nov 20 21:15:36 <fcrochik> me?
Nov 20 21:15:39 <lbt> you
Nov 20 21:15:44 <lbt> promise?
Nov 20 21:15:51 <fcrochik> edit what wiki?
Nov 20 21:15:55 <smoku> arfoll, thanks for the hint. I have it :)
Nov 20 21:15:59 <lbt> http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder
Nov 20 21:16:14 <arfoll> snoku, have you got opengles on the dell streak?
Nov 20 21:16:28 <smoku> arfoll, no way :(
Nov 20 21:16:42 <smoku> arfoll, I hit that wall hard. on three different ways ;-)
Nov 20 21:17:00 <arfoll> smoku, :-( I guess that's the main problem with all devices...
Nov 20 21:17:02 <lbt> fcrochik: and... create the 2nd entry "Getting access to the OBS" :)
Nov 20 21:17:18 <smoku> arfoll, not all. TI OMAP is an exception
Nov 20 21:17:42 <fcrochik> lbt: as long as you tell me what I need to write? :)
Nov 20 21:17:55 <arfoll> smoku, do they have open drivers for that?
Nov 20 21:18:04 <arfoll> on omap4/omap3?
Nov 20 21:18:14 <lcuk> fcrochik, how about you write what you think it needs
Nov 20 21:18:23 <lcuk> and lbt and others will help guide from there
Nov 20 21:18:28 <lbt> fcrochik: what would have helped you  ? (and the url is https://build.pub.meego.com ... since you'll need that)
Nov 20 21:18:53 <smoku> arfoll, depends how you define open. there are drivers for linux available and they are redistributable.  if you can live with binaries
Nov 20 21:19:09 <fcrochik> lbt: what should I write about who to contact to gain access to it?
Nov 20 21:19:22 <lbt> yup...
Nov 20 21:19:31 <fcrochik> lbt: try to contact you?
Nov 20 21:19:48 <lbt> yes... not much... just gets you started on the wiki
Nov 20 21:20:04 <RevdKathy> timoph: you still taking suggestions for things to add to the repo? lcuk just pointed out we need a book reader please. Great idea. :)
Nov 20 21:21:06 <arfoll> smoku, ok so you can't compile them - so it'll work till they stop providing meego drivers
Nov 20 21:22:01 <smoku> arfoll, or there are changes in the kernel rendering the binary blobs noncompatible. yes.
Nov 20 21:22:37 <arfoll> still pretty sucky then
Nov 20 21:22:51 <timeless_mbp> RevdKathy: got pictures of the people you hung w/?
Nov 20 21:22:57 * timeless_mbp doesn't recognize Erika by name
Nov 20 21:23:25 <RevdKathy> timeless_mbp not many. Most of my photos seem to be of pints of Guinness!
Nov 20 21:23:31 <smoku> arfoll, better than nothing
Nov 20 21:23:32 <timeless_mbp> and your bear ;-)
Nov 20 21:23:55 <RevdKathy> Erika was/ is one of  the organisers. She had responsibility for the helpdesk
Nov 20 21:23:56 <arfoll> smoku, we'll just have to be really nice to TI
Nov 20 21:24:01 <timeless_mbp> btw... did the n900 terminal scare you in a specific way?
Nov 20 21:24:30 <timeless_mbp> also isn't "current mood" on your blog misleading?
Nov 20 21:24:34 <RevdKathy> I think a lot of the fear was generated by people posting "Don't do this you will break your device" type posts
Nov 20 21:24:40 <timeless_mbp> doesn't it mean "mood at time this was written"? :)
Nov 20 21:24:55 <timeless_mbp> RevdKathy: hrm...
Nov 20 21:24:55 <lcuk> RevdKathy, was Erika the lady from Intel who was sat at the desk?
Nov 20 21:25:07 <RevdKathy> Well, as it was written this evening, it's pretty valid
Nov 20 21:25:20 <RevdKathy> lcuk - yes that's right. Lovely girl.
Nov 20 21:25:24 * lcuk nods
Nov 20 21:25:30 <lcuk> very knowledgable and frendly
Nov 20 21:25:42 <RevdKathy> lcuk: extremely
Nov 20 21:25:52 <lcuk> we considered getting you a walkie talkie
Nov 20 21:26:01 <lcuk> the security guard missed you after you had left
Nov 20 21:26:14 <RevdKathy> lcuk: they offered me one at one point as it was lying around. ;)
Nov 20 21:26:19 <timeless_mbp> heh
Nov 20 21:26:35 <lcuk> yeah I saw, but one that would work whilst you were on the plane
Nov 20 21:26:39 * timeless_mbp remembers complaining about how people use random badges or walkie talkies to mean "trust me"
Nov 20 21:26:48 <RevdKathy> lcuk: I think I was a bit of a hit with the security guard. He carried my bag for me and everything!
Nov 20 21:27:21 <lcuk> yeah of course Kathy, your presence made a lot of people smile :)
Nov 20 21:27:54 <RevdKathy> timeless_mbp I declined the walkie-talkie. They were for Real Organisers. My badge was clearly that of a violunteer
Nov 20 21:28:00 <RevdKathy> or even volunteer
Nov 20 21:28:12 <lbt> RevdKathy: "maemo.org has the opportunity to demonstrate to meego.com the potential value of having a mix of skills and people" ... very true :)
Nov 20 21:28:29 <GAN900> lbt, where's that quote?
Nov 20 21:28:52 <lbt> I really want to make the obs a good place to extend maemo into meego
Nov 20 21:29:00 <lbt> GAN900: her blog
Nov 20 21:29:27 <GAN900> Ah
Nov 20 21:29:46 <GAN900> That post got a thumb down somehow.
Nov 20 21:29:51 <RevdKathy> lbt: Gosh! did I say that? Was I sober?
Nov 20 21:29:52 * Jaffa noticed that.
Nov 20 21:30:07 <Jaffa> We should start a series of blog posts asking why things get thumbed down.
Nov 20 21:30:09 <Jaffa> Or... not.
Nov 20 21:30:11 <lbt> RevdKathy: you know Niels and I fixed the MeeGo OBS so we can make most of the N900 maemo extras apps on their?
Nov 20 21:30:43 <RevdKathy> lbt - that would be awesome. I'd love to have more of the maemo apps available.
Nov 20 21:30:44 <lbt> so maemo devs have a pathway to meego (or can stick with maemo)
Nov 20 21:30:49 <Jaffa> lbt: BTW, is there a bit in the wiki about submitting to the OBS rather than the auto-builder? Does it output into a PPA-style Debian repo?
Nov 20 21:30:53 <lbt> or can build for both
Nov 20 21:30:59 <Saviq> RevdKathy: the slides are there http://conference2010.meego.com/session/strategic-freedom-meego
Nov 20 21:31:04 <Saviq> on the left hand side
Nov 20 21:31:04 * Jaffa bahs at the MeeGo Touch vkb not working.
Nov 20 21:31:09 * Jaffa goes poking in Terminal some more.
Nov 20 21:31:19 <lbt> Jaffa: I've not gotten fremantle into the meego OBS yet... it's in the maemo OBS
Nov 20 21:31:31 <lbt> we probably need to sort out a group/eula thing
Nov 20 21:31:49 <lbt> which of course is useful to support other device makers who do the same thing
Nov 20 21:31:57 <timeless_mbp> wow
Nov 20 21:31:59 <fcrochik> lbt: ok....one more inauguration for me... just updated the page with a "how to get started"
Nov 20 21:32:03 <Jaffa> lbt: Ah, true
Nov 20 21:32:12 <timeless_mbp> the bejewelled impl for the n900 is seriously crippled
Nov 20 21:32:17 <RevdKathy> Someone thumbs-downs all my posts, GAN900, Jaffa. I think it's personal rather than content.
Nov 20 21:32:24 * timeless_mbp is using the flash one on msn
Nov 20 21:32:43 <fcrochik> lbt: I would suggest that we need a little more information on who and how to contact to gain access to the obs
Nov 20 21:32:48 <lbt> fcrochik: yay... another wiki editor ... welcome
Nov 20 21:32:56 <Jaffa> Ah, the keyboard is an enormous SVG. How tempting.
Nov 20 21:33:00 <Jaffa> Someone should tell Texrat
Nov 20 21:33:16 <Jaffa> Eugh; generated in Illustrator
Nov 20 21:33:30 <lbt> probably not redistributable ;)
Nov 20 21:33:32 <arfoll> Jaffa, I saw that too
Nov 20 21:33:41 <RevdKathy> Saviq thank you! That includes the slide I want. Might nick that and scrapbook it. :)
Nov 20 21:33:53 <Saviq> cheers
Nov 20 21:33:53 <arfoll> at least doug fisher didn't have PPT slides
Nov 20 21:34:48 <Jaffa> arfoll: Yeah, make a big fuss about presenting on MeeGo, and then show everyone that you used PowerPoint to build them.
Nov 20 21:34:48 <fcrochik> lbt: do I need special permissions to create new pages on the wiki? haven't figured how
Nov 20 21:34:51 <Jaffa> Narf.
Nov 20 21:35:52 <timeless_mbp> oh wow
Nov 20 21:35:55 <timeless_mbp> and the rules are different
Nov 20 21:36:03 <timeless_mbp> you die in this version if you run out of moves :o
Nov 20 21:36:25 <thiago_home> angry birds?
Nov 20 21:36:32 <timeless_mbp> arfoll: what's wrong w/ ppt?
Nov 20 21:36:43 <timeless_mbp> thiago: bejewelled
Nov 20 21:36:56 <arfoll> timeless_mbp, don't want to get into that argument thank you ;-)
Nov 20 21:37:12 <Jaffa> arfoll: Nothing usually, unless you make an enormous fuss at the start of your presentation about how you're dogfooding your own product and show off OOo in MeeGo
Nov 20 21:37:19 <timeless_mbp> arfoll: i used google docs to make our presentation
Nov 20 21:37:24 <timeless_mbp> the generated ppt ruined it :(
Nov 20 21:37:36 <DocScrutinizer> hi RevdKathy :-)
Nov 20 21:37:41 <timeless_mbp> i can fight either side, i'm more curious about how you came to your opinion
Nov 20 21:37:53 <RevdKathy> Hi DocScrutinizer How're you tonight?
Nov 20 21:38:33 <arfoll> timeless_mbp, his presentation was Strategic Freedom.... The freedom part makes PPT ironic that's all
Nov 20 21:38:59 <DocScrutinizer> RevdKathy: Saturday night boredom, and hungry for a burger, since GAN900 explained to me how they should taste
Nov 20 21:39:01 <GAN900> Jaffa, the irony is truly enjoyable, isn't it?
Nov 20 21:39:03 <marnanel> lbt: it won't let me log into https://build.pub.meego.com ; I only just changed my password on the main site, so does it take time to propagate or something?
Nov 20 21:39:15 <GAN900> RevdKathy, ah, well, I know how that goes.
Nov 20 21:39:44 <GAN900> Jaffa, and don't be hateful. :P
Nov 20 21:40:12 <lbt> marnanel: an hour
Nov 20 21:40:15 <RevdKathy> DocScrutinizer: it's kind of sad we're all here on IRC. If we were in person with some Guinness it would all be so different!
Nov 20 21:40:32 <DocScrutinizer> :nod:
Nov 20 21:40:45 <marnanel> it really annoys me when people thumbs-down content because they have some kind of vendetta against the person rather than what they're saying
Nov 20 21:40:49 <Jaffa> GAN900: I'm being hateful now? Goodo.
Nov 20 21:43:04 <lcuk> irc to voice plugin/app for the devices (using the focused channel would be best way)
Nov 20 21:43:06 <marnanel> lbt: cheers, will go and tidy the kitchen some more then :)
Nov 20 21:43:16 <lbt> hehe
Nov 20 21:43:24 <lcuk> i have seen custom implementations using high powered hardware and windows code and stuff
Nov 20 21:43:31 <lcuk> but nothing as simple as a plugin for xchat
Nov 20 21:43:32 <RevdKathy> I suspect someone object to my gossipy non-tech blog in principle.
Nov 20 21:44:19 <timeless_mbp> arfoll: ah, url for presentation?
Nov 20 21:44:28 <lcuk> GAN900, whats the name of that case you have around you N900?
Nov 20 21:44:32 <GAN900> lcuk, zerojay had something like that. I think it was called "7-year-old".
Nov 20 21:44:35 <Jaffa> lcuk: "Ugly" ;-)
Nov 20 21:44:39 <GAN900> lcuk, OtterBox.
Nov 20 21:44:42 <GAN900> Jaffa, hater.
Nov 20 21:44:46 <Jaffa> Yay
Nov 20 21:44:50 <lcuk> Jaffa, its the only one I have seen that sticks on properly
Nov 20 21:44:53 <lcuk> thanks
Nov 20 21:45:11 <Jaffa> GAN900: Get me some free beer and I'll mellow again
Nov 20 21:45:23 <GAN900> Jaffa, go back to Ireland.
Nov 20 21:45:28 <lcuk> no need
Nov 20 21:45:32 <lcuk> irish bars exist all over
Nov 20 21:45:33 <GAN900> Apparently Guinness is free there.
Nov 20 21:45:37 <arfoll> http://conference2010.meego.com/sites/all/files/sessions/fisher_meego_keynote_v4a.pdf
Nov 20 21:45:39 * lcuk drank heartily in one last night 
Nov 20 21:45:42 * thiago_home wants a MeeGo Confernece soon
Nov 20 21:45:45 <lcuk> with great service and a folk band too!
Nov 20 21:45:53 <Jaffa> lcuk: Cool
Nov 20 21:45:55 <arfoll> timeless_mbp, it's quite a good presentation (as far as keynotes get anyways)
Nov 20 21:46:04 <GAN900> thiago_home, yeah, I'm about recharged and ready.
Nov 20 21:46:12 <lcuk> O'Neills in Bury ;)
Nov 20 21:46:16 <marnanel> I just realised that now I can discover whether the Irish bars here are anything like the real thing
Nov 20 21:46:26 <lcuk> yes marnanel
Nov 20 21:46:33 <Jaffa> marnanel: Full of tourists everywhere ;-)
Nov 20 21:47:06 * RevdKathy passes Jaffa a bottle of Doom Bar
Nov 20 21:48:18 <lbt> irish mist
Nov 20 21:48:30 <Jaffa> lbt: Ireland is, indeed, missed.
Nov 20 21:48:58 <lbt> :)
Nov 20 21:50:29 <timeless_mbp> arfoll: i think i skipped all the keynotes :o
Nov 20 21:50:59 <arfoll> timeless_mbp, I managed to miss the last two although I was in the room just started chatting and stopped listening...
Nov 20 21:51:52 <GAN900> timeless_mbp, just as well.
Nov 20 21:52:07 <GAN900> timeless_mbp, Stskeeps was the only worthwhile thing.
Nov 20 21:52:37 <arfoll> timeless_mbp, no! the free laptops where announced!
Nov 20 21:55:26 <GAN900> Though the irony of the TSG was entertaining.
Nov 20 21:55:43 <Cygoku> How do I install Brasero for Meego under my Netbook ??
Nov 20 21:56:06 <Cygoku> Or how can I use the startup disk creator under Meego ??
Nov 20 21:56:07 <thiago_home> Cygoku: do you have a CD burner in your netbook?
Nov 20 21:56:19 <lcuk> frals,
Nov 20 21:56:28 <Cygoku> I do have an external ASUS DVD Burner.
Nov 20 21:56:32 <lcuk> if I put a sim card in the ideapad and install fmms, will magic be possible?
Nov 20 21:56:44 <frals> lcuk: no
Nov 20 21:57:06 <lcuk> frals, is fmms coming to meego handset soon?
Nov 20 21:57:08 <GAN900> lcuk, got a modem?
Nov 20 21:57:13 * Jay_BEE looks around
Nov 20 21:57:14 <RevdKathy> frals: lcuk: that was a short and to-the-point answer!
Nov 20 21:57:14 <GAN900> If you get a modem. . . .
Nov 20 21:57:32 <frals> lcuk: not afaik, as it depends on wappushd being there which is nokia closed last i looked
Nov 20 21:57:33 <GAN900> Doesn't MeeGo handset have MMS?
Nov 20 21:57:36 <timeless_mbp> arfoll: well, i have one of those free netbooks on my lap now
Nov 20 21:57:41 <timeless_mbp> so i guess not much harm there
Nov 20 21:57:49 <timeless_mbp> GAN900: irony?
Nov 20 21:57:53 <RevdKathy> Right: time I went to bed. The bears are calling me. 'Night all.
Nov 20 21:58:01 <lcuk> whats the slot for under the battery on the ideapad?
Nov 20 21:58:11 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: does the ideapad have a modem?
Nov 20 21:58:12 <lcuk> frals, shame
Nov 20 21:58:12 <lbt> lcuk: aha
Nov 20 21:58:27 <lcuk> we should see what can be done to get it running :)
Nov 20 21:58:32 <GAN900> timeless_mbp, Zemlin asked a bunch of scripted questions, opened Q&A, then continued asking his own questions until time ran out.
Nov 20 21:58:50 <GAN900> timeless_mbp, SIM slot
Nov 20 21:58:59 <Cygoku> No one here knows how can I create a startup disk under Meego Netbook Edition ??
Nov 20 21:59:00 <GAN900> It needs a PCIe modem, though.
Nov 20 21:59:18 <thiago_home> the Q&A needed more time for audience questions, agreed
Nov 20 21:59:23 <thiago_home> add that to the feedback page
Nov 20 22:00:29 <GAN900> thiago_home, I figure if you have a panel, that should be self evident.
Nov 20 22:00:52 <thiago_home> yeah
Nov 20 22:00:54 <lcuk> GAN900, so its got place for sim
Nov 20 22:00:58 <lcuk> but cant make use of it?
Nov 20 22:01:01 <thiago_home> I don't mind a question or two to get it started
Nov 20 22:01:01 <ofauchon> Hi. "mad-admin  create -f meego-handset-ia32-qemu-1.1.20101031.2201-sda-runtime is there some mirror configuration or something else ? thx
Nov 20 22:01:03 <GAN900> lcuk, just need a modem.
Nov 20 22:01:08 <GAN900> For the third time. :P
Nov 20 22:01:13 <ofauchon> is slow sorry
Nov 20 22:01:13 <thiago_home> but there were too many from him
Nov 20 22:01:22 <GAN900> thiago_home, indeed not.
Nov 20 22:01:31 <lcuk> that part doesnt make much sense, so at the moment the sim is just a sim reader basically?
Nov 20 22:01:33 <thiago_home> then again, the first person who asked question asked a two-part multiple-level one
Nov 20 22:01:33 <GAN900> thiago_home, whole thing was him. *g*
Nov 20 22:01:44 <Cygoku> Is this place of any help usually ??
Nov 20 22:01:46 <GAN900> lcuk, drop in a PCIe modem.
Nov 20 22:01:49 <thiago_home> Cygoku: yes
Nov 20 22:01:54 <timeless_mbp> GAN900: clever
Nov 20 22:01:54 <Cygoku> I see.
Nov 20 22:02:16 <GAN900> Somebody has an oFono compatible list somewhere.
Nov 20 22:02:26 <Cygoku> Well then !
Nov 20 22:02:33 <lcuk> i like the big extended battery :)
Nov 20 22:02:39 <lcuk> meego lasts for ages
Nov 20 22:02:41 <GAN900> lcuk, too big
Nov 20 22:02:48 <GAN900> defeats the tablet mode
Nov 20 22:02:50 <lcuk> then get yourself a smaller one
Nov 20 22:03:01 <GAN900> (though Netbook UX defeats it harder)
Nov 20 22:03:04 <GAN900> Might
Nov 20 22:03:05 <thiago_home> it serves as a handle for tablet mode
Nov 20 22:03:07 <lcuk> yeah
Nov 20 22:03:25 <lcuk> thiago_home, book spine :)
Nov 20 22:03:43 <lcuk> when we have rotation working i can see myself reading from it happily
Nov 20 22:04:06 <thiago_home> it's too heavy
Nov 20 22:04:27 <lcuk> sure for carrying, but its ok as a prototype :)
Nov 20 22:04:35 <Cygoku> I wanna get rid of meego, but need to create a usb stick with meerkat, I am fudged under meego to do that.
Nov 20 22:04:38 <Cygoku> Please help.
Nov 20 22:04:51 <lcuk> Cygoku, you are in the meego channel
Nov 20 22:04:57 <tybollt> GAN900: so whatchs think of the current state of meego?
Nov 20 22:04:59 <GAN900> thiago_home, oof, feels a little fragile for that to me.
Nov 20 22:05:07 <GAN900> tybollt, well. . . .
Nov 20 22:05:11 <thiago_home> Cygoku: our job is to get you to install MeeGo. if you have it already, then our job is done.
Nov 20 22:05:11 * tybollt tried the demo last night - fairly depressing :)
Nov 20 22:05:16 <tybollt> GAN900: :)
Nov 20 22:05:33 <GAN900> (you're supposed to run off to talk to Amy there)
Nov 20 22:05:42 <Cygoku> Meego is not suitable for my needs right now.
Nov 20 22:05:47 <sivang> re
Nov 20 22:05:54 <lcuk> Cygoku, then go and read instructions elsewhere
Nov 20 22:06:03 <timeless_mbp> yeah, i'm not sure i dislike the battery-handle
Nov 20 22:06:30 <Cygoku> I cannot wait to tell msg board how ppl from the meego community treats ppl in help.
Nov 20 22:06:31 <GAN900> tybollt, seriously, though, the Netbook UX is too much the rough-edged toy for me right now.
Nov 20 22:06:36 <lcuk> the restore OS button needs functionality
Nov 20 22:06:38 <thiago_home> GAN900: me talk to amy? why?
Nov 20 22:06:58 <lcuk> for now its ok but for later we will need to find a way to make it work :)
Nov 20 22:07:04 <sivang> thiago_home: I want a conf soon as well, this time to get some musical instruments and form a band BOF
Nov 20 22:07:17 <lcuk> sivang, talk to texrat
Nov 20 22:07:22 <lcuk> he is musical and had similar idea
Nov 20 22:07:24 <tybollt> anyway what struck me about meego, regardless of the current state of things (all projects at broken in the beginining I guess) is that it's not very sharp, glossy, posh. Something I thought maemo did surprisingly well
Nov 20 22:07:27 <thiago_home> sivang: ok, I can talk to amy about that :-)
Nov 20 22:07:27 <GAN900> thiago_home, Sunday night we were chatting with Quim, he askes me "So, Ryan, what's your outlooking on MeeGo these days?"
Nov 20 22:07:27 <sivang> lcuk: already did
Nov 20 22:07:29 <lcuk> but they must be digital meego instruments
Nov 20 22:07:35 <sivang> thiago_home: great :)
Nov 20 22:07:39 <lcuk> i spoke to karoliina about it
Nov 20 22:07:42 <GAN900> *deep breath* "Well--"
Nov 20 22:07:45 <thiago_home> sivang: though "form a band" is dawn's territory :-)
Nov 20 22:07:46 <tybollt> GAN900: I actually meant the handset UX
Nov 20 22:07:48 <lcuk> and jussi has an interest always
Nov 20 22:07:51 <sivang> thiago_home: hehe
Nov 20 22:07:58 <GAN900> and Quim says "Excuse me" and runs off to talk to Amy.
Nov 20 22:08:03 <ShadowJK> rofl
Nov 20 22:08:05 <GAN900> tybollt, unusable on my N900.
Nov 20 22:08:07 <thiago_home> GAN900: :-)
Nov 20 22:08:13 <sivang> thiago_home: was great to be meeting you eventually, and to see how hard you tried to listen to people and guide through
Nov 20 22:08:17 <thiago_home> GAN900: I think I used that excuse myself too
Nov 20 22:08:18 <sivang> thiago_home: thank you
Nov 20 22:08:21 <Cygoku> How do I install Brasero for Meego under my Netbook ??
Nov 20 22:08:22 <Cygoku> How do I install Brasero for Meego under my Netbook ??
Nov 20 22:08:25 <tybollt> GAN900: it started on mine..
Nov 20 22:08:30 <tybollt> not much more but :)
Nov 20 22:08:32 <thiago_home> Cygoku: stop asking. There's no Brasero in MeeGo.
Nov 20 22:08:45 <thiago_home> GAN900: don't remember who I was talking to, but I did switch conversations to talk to Amy
Nov 20 22:08:56 <Cygoku> Well, if I insert a blank dvd it says to Install Brasero.
Nov 20 22:09:02 <Cygoku> And there is none ??
Nov 20 22:09:19 <thiago_home> Cygoku: no, there isn't
Nov 20 22:09:22 <Cygoku> And Meego is distributated at large ??
Nov 20 22:09:28 <thiago_home> Cygoku: yes
Nov 20 22:09:33 <Cygoku> Then how can I burn a cd ??
Nov 20 22:09:40 <thiago_home> Cygoku: you can't. There are no programs to do that.
Nov 20 22:09:44 <thiago_home> MeeGo doesn't package all applications.
Nov 20 22:09:54 <sivang> Cygoku: you can try with epel or so
Nov 20 22:10:05 <sivang> Cygoku: enable it and attempt installation, but not sure about deps
Nov 20 22:10:05 <DocScrutinizer> GAN900: X-P
Nov 20 22:10:09 <niala> zypper install brasero
Nov 20 22:10:28 <sivang> niala: thanks for the reply
Nov 20 22:10:54 <timeless_mbp> arfoll: well, his slides are shiny
Nov 20 22:11:43 <timeless_mbp> very shiny
Nov 20 22:11:54 <niala> sivang:  it was the good reply ?
Nov 20 22:12:17 <sivang> niala: yes, I was just wondering about the 64bitness of this specific netbook, hence replied on the ML
Nov 20 22:12:29 <GAN900> thiago_home, the next time I talked to Quim it was when he asked me if I had a battery in my camera at the football reception while I was taking a picture of fiferboy's Guinness.
Nov 20 22:12:31 <sivang> niala: but I guess that's already there by the arch detection through zypper?
Nov 20 22:12:57 <GAN900> To which I responded "Yes" and he ran off with his armfull of batteries.
Nov 20 22:13:04 <thiago_home> GAN900: what did you answer, "no, I'm just playing with an unpowered camera" ? :-)
Nov 20 22:13:33 <GAN900> thiago_home, apparently it's what he thought, because I got to keep my battery.
Nov 20 22:13:46 <thiago_home> he wasn't taking batteries
Nov 20 22:13:50 <thiago_home> he was giving them back
Nov 20 22:13:54 <GAN900> Ah
Nov 20 22:13:57 <tybollt> Seriously
Nov 20 22:13:57 <GAN900> Who took them?
Nov 20 22:14:01 <thiago_home> the stadium people were taking them
Nov 20 22:14:04 <niala> sivang:  there is no 64 specificaly
Nov 20 22:14:07 <GAN900> Ah, interesting.
Nov 20 22:14:13 <thiago_home> image rights for the match
Nov 20 22:14:16 <sivang> niala: ok, thanks
Nov 20 22:14:28 <tybollt> should we settle for an UX in the new OS that looks and feels WORSE than what we currently have? I'm very very sceptical
Nov 20 22:14:31 <GAN900> Was a bit strange
Nov 20 22:14:40 <DocScrutinizer> LOL
Nov 20 22:14:42 <sivang> timeless_mbp: which slides?
Nov 20 22:14:46 <GAN900> You just can't have lenses longer than 12" in stadiums here.
Nov 20 22:14:50 <tybollt> did nokia fire the graphics guys from maemo?
Nov 20 22:14:52 <GAN900> Otherwise they don't care.
Nov 20 22:15:26 <GAN900> How did Quim manage to negotiate rights for Conf attendees?
Nov 20 22:15:29 <DocScrutinizer> how did they treat iPhones?
Nov 20 22:15:44 <thiago_home> iphones have really bad cameras
Nov 20 22:15:51 <lcuk> dropped them accidentally into beer and replaced with n900s
Nov 20 22:15:53 <thiago_home> they let the N8s in, so why would they restrict iphones?
Nov 20 22:15:56 <DocScrutinizer> I heard it's not exactly easy to remove battery on these critters
Nov 20 22:16:10 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: :-)
Nov 20 22:16:14 <thiago_home> and it's about cameras with good zoom
Nov 20 22:16:42 <GAN900> Got a video of the MeeGo advert during the game.
Nov 20 22:16:43 <DocScrutinizer> aah
Nov 20 22:16:55 <tybollt> GAN900: URL?
Nov 20 22:17:03 <sivang> thiago_home: N8 has one of the best cameras a phone has on the market, affectionatly referred to a "camera with a phone"
Nov 20 22:17:05 <lcuk> GAN900, the meego football UX was simply awesome
Nov 20 22:17:24 <sivang> lcuk: indeed, I was excited to see it every time
Nov 20 22:17:32 <thiago_home> sivang: the best camera a phone has on the market
Nov 20 22:17:37 <thiago_home> for now, at least
Nov 20 22:17:40 <GAN900> tybollt, will upload it tonight.
Nov 20 22:18:10 <sivang> thiago_home: yes, beats some proper cameras that are not providing phone functionality
Nov 20 22:18:47 <lcuk> I would strongly dislike using an EOS camera as a phone
Nov 20 22:18:50 <timeless_mbp> wow
Nov 20 22:18:52 <timeless_mbp> so um..
Nov 20 22:19:04 <timeless_mbp> did anyone else save their ideapad windows install?
Nov 20 22:19:08 <DocScrutinizer> lcuk: LOL
Nov 20 22:19:11 * timeless_mbp is impressed by their note thingy
Nov 20 22:19:21 <timeless_mbp> it lets you scribble, record audio, record video
Nov 20 22:19:27 <timeless_mbp> and combine them on a desktop like surface
Nov 20 22:19:32 <timeless_mbp> very finger friendly
Nov 20 22:20:16 <sivang> timeless_mbp: I wanted to, but, well got swapped in anti-w excitment after I reazlied I can use the license on other machines perhaps
Nov 20 22:20:19 <sivang> ;)
Nov 20 22:20:29 <timeless_mbp> r
Nov 20 22:20:30 <GAN900> Don't they have an Android phone now that's basically a point'n'shoot with a phone addon?
Nov 20 22:20:33 <timeless_mbp> the license, sure
Nov 20 22:20:47 <timeless_mbp> but getting the lenovo software would probably be harder
Nov 20 22:20:56 <smoku> how do I import a package from one OBS to another?
Nov 20 22:20:58 <timeless_mbp> GAN900: probably
Nov 20 22:20:59 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: I saved my W7 Starter on some DVD-ROM's, but it's not on the hard drive.
Nov 20 22:21:03 <GAN900> Windows 7 Starter!
Nov 20 22:21:05 <sivang> timeless_mbp: intel people did not look at me nicely when I told them I want to resize and keep windows, noting the prtitioner is broken in that repsect
Nov 20 22:21:22 <timeless_mbp> heh
Nov 20 22:21:34 <timeless_mbp> gabrbedd: hrm, how'd you manage that?
Nov 20 22:21:36 <sivang> :)
Nov 20 22:21:40 <timeless_mbp> my idea pad was missing the dvd burner
Nov 20 22:21:50 <timeless_mbp> that's what i wanted to do
Nov 20 22:21:55 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: purchased an external DVD burner.
Nov 20 22:22:00 <sivang> there's an idea pad with a dvd burner?
Nov 20 22:22:03 <gabrbedd> needed one anyway.
Nov 20 22:22:04 <timeless_mbp> *just* for this?
Nov 20 22:22:05 <timeless_mbp> wow
Nov 20 22:22:23 <GAN900> sivang, think I got a good picture of your unboxing.
Nov 20 22:22:32 <gabrbedd> No, not *just* for this... but when doing lots of work with netbooks/tablets -- it's the easy way out of a lot of tight spots.
Nov 20 22:22:33 <sivang> GAN900: ohh nice :)
Nov 20 22:22:41 <lcuk> GAN900, add to the flickr group perhaps?
Nov 20 22:22:52 <sivang> I have some N900 photos as well
Nov 20 22:22:53 <GAN900> lcuk, just dumped the camera this morning
Nov 20 22:22:58 <sivang> I will add eventually to flicker group
Nov 20 22:23:02 <GAN900> Need to post before I upload.
Nov 20 22:23:08 <lcuk> GAN900, :( why, I thought you liked it
Nov 20 22:23:15 <pupnik> when doing a lot of work with tablets, spare batteries in pocket makes long life
Nov 20 22:23:15 <sivang> GAN900: ah, not I realize who you are :)
Nov 20 22:23:24 <timeless_mbp> gabrbedd: indeed
Nov 20 22:23:24 <GAN900> Got lots of photos of the conf. Not nearly enough of Dublin. :(
Nov 20 22:23:35 <timeless_mbp> gabrbedd: i was hoping to find a virtual dvd burner
Nov 20 22:23:39 * GAN900 wasn't comfortable flashing super camera around on the streets.
Nov 20 22:23:42 <timeless_mbp> but i kept searching and searching...
Nov 20 22:23:47 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: LOL.
Nov 20 22:23:51 <GAN900> sivang, pfft.
Nov 20 22:23:57 <timeless_mbp> gabrbedd: there are virtual readers....
Nov 20 22:24:05 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: but for me, it was worth the $50 bucks.
Nov 20 22:24:17 <timeless_mbp> you picked it up state-side?
Nov 20 22:24:18 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: Now that I remember, Lenovo's system restore software sucked really bad....
Nov 20 22:24:26 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: and I had to put them on CD-R's.
Nov 20 22:24:31 <timeless_mbp> 17?
Nov 20 22:24:34 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: A BUNCH of CD-R's.
Nov 20 22:24:39 <sivang> GAN900: well, I couldn't find time to actualy go around the streets enough, I almost missed flight back for being too relaxed on thursday taking a tour bus trip
Nov 20 22:24:39 <timeless_mbp> iirc that's what it asked for
Nov 20 22:24:40 <GAN900> sivang, after Dawn's fist community talk, a group of us went upstairs and were chatting. timsamoff asked "So, does anybody know who that GAN900 person was?"
Nov 20 22:24:42 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: Yeah, I think 17.
Nov 20 22:24:55 <sivang> GAN900: heh, oh btw, s/not/now/
Nov 20 22:24:57 <GAN900> sivang, hehe
Nov 20 22:24:59 <timeless_mbp> GAN900: heh
Nov 20 22:25:14 <GAN900> sivang, either way. ;)
Nov 20 22:25:14 <sivang> GAN900: it was nice meeting finally, even for an friction
Nov 20 22:25:16 <timeless_mbp> gabrbedd: sorry, i can't believe you actually went the CDR path
Nov 20 22:25:21 <timeless_mbp> that's *insane* :)
Nov 20 22:25:59 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: (1) didn't want to just delete W7
Nov 20 22:26:06 <GAN900> sivang, far too many people I didn't meet, and more who I didn't get to talk to nearly long enough.
Nov 20 22:26:06 <sivang> GAN900: were you at some point involved with Ubuntu ? I thought I remembered you from one of the UDSs
Nov 20 22:26:15 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: (2) knew I might screw up one day... and delete the hdd
Nov 20 22:26:16 <GAN900> sivang, nope.
Nov 20 22:26:17 <sivang> GAN900: same, too much people
Nov 20 22:26:17 <timeless_mbp> gabrbedd: can't argue w/ (1) -- i still haven't :)
Nov 20 22:26:25 <lcuk> OMG another GAN clone
Nov 20 22:26:29 <lcuk> thats the 4th this month
Nov 20 22:26:30 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: (3) Tried like 5 times with DVD and their software kept failing.
Nov 20 22:26:38 <timeless_mbp> that's scary
Nov 20 22:26:38 <GAN900> sivang, all of those damn OEMs filling up all the room.
Nov 20 22:26:39 <smoku> BTW, how did you managed to charge your ideapads using this uk plug that was included? :>
Nov 20 22:26:49 <thiago_home> smoku: with plug adaptors
Nov 20 22:26:52 <sivang> GAN900: heh, noted
Nov 20 22:26:53 <arfoll> smoku, easy in an english plug
Nov 20 22:26:55 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: (4) tired of wasting time and gave the CDR's a shot.  Worked.  Done.  Case closed.  :-)
Nov 20 22:27:11 <GAN900> lcuk, got one of you unboxing, too.
Nov 20 22:27:20 <lcuk> :D awesome
Nov 20 22:27:33 <lcuk> meta pic of me taking a photo of my unboxing?
Nov 20 22:27:34 <timeless_mbp> gabrbedd: which flavor did you burn?
Nov 20 22:27:41 <timeless_mbp> i'm assuming that was the official restore
Nov 20 22:27:46 <timeless_mbp> instead of the backup flavors
Nov 20 22:27:59 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: Yeah.  The official, I think.
Nov 20 22:28:23 <sivang> gabrbedd: t43 had the same backup. tedious, annoying
Nov 20 22:28:25 <timeless_mbp> gabrbedd: since you've done it, could i convince you to make iso's and let me slurp?
Nov 20 22:28:37 <GAN900> lcuk, don't recall
Nov 20 22:28:44 * timeless_mbp would vaguely like to skip hunting for a burner and wasting 17 blanks
Nov 20 22:28:50 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, hm
Nov 20 22:29:01 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: Sorry, but no. :-)  Not only is it illegal... but would take too much time to set up.
Nov 20 22:29:28 <GAN900> I was setting up my Lenovo, and realized "Oh shit, I'm sitting in a sea of Maemo people with new laptops. *snap snap snap*
Nov 20 22:29:41 <w00t> GAN900: hmm?
Nov 20 22:29:45 <timeless_mbp> gabrbedd: hrm, in this case i was hoping people would claim it isn't illegal
Nov 20 22:29:51 <timeless_mbp> since we each know we have a license
Nov 20 22:29:56 <timeless_mbp> but no matter
Nov 20 22:30:09 * timeless_mbp will have to find some usb stick w/ decent partitioning support
Nov 20 22:30:21 <sivang> GAN900: reading about apple's process was interesting (I posted a link before) I wonder if we could do something like this in a bit of crowd sourced fashion.
Nov 20 22:30:46 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, technically you can request restore disks from lenovo can't you?
Nov 20 22:30:50 <gabrbedd> timeless_mbp: According to Microsoft's EULA... I can't even let my kids look at it without the express writeen consent of Major League Baseball.
Nov 20 22:30:51 <andybleaden> sivang, in what way?
Nov 20 22:31:17 <andybleaden> lcuk, you want to put windows back on a lenovo?
Nov 20 22:31:19 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: dunno, someone thought you'd have to pay for the priv
Nov 20 22:31:25 <gabrbedd> lcuk, timeless_mbp: I think you can... and I think they charge for them.
Nov 20 22:31:27 <lcuk> not at all andybleaden
Nov 20 22:31:31 <lcuk> I was just mentioning
Nov 20 22:31:50 * lcuk will work through the meego netbook issues and get handset working on it etc
Nov 20 22:31:53 <sivang> andybleaden: have you read the document I linked earlier this evening?
Nov 20 22:32:07 <andybleaden> lcuk, good job too.took windows off of too many lenovo
Nov 20 22:32:09 <lcuk> some folks will be happy to just iron out netbook, others will push more for handset and thats cool :)
Nov 20 22:32:14 <sivang> I'm also going to get the MTF onto it for vkeyboard and good stuff
Nov 20 22:32:15 <sivang> :)
Nov 20 22:32:27 <marnanel> UI question.  When you have an app which is maximised so you can't see the MeeGo taskbar with the icons on it you can press Super (/Windows) to get the taskbar back.  Is there anything you can do with the pointer to get the taskbar back in that situation?
Nov 20 22:32:28 <andybleaden> sivang, not yetonly just come on xchat
Nov 20 22:32:41 <GAN900> w00t, what hmm?
Nov 20 22:33:05 <sivang> andybleaden: just hover the pointer to the top part of the screen
Nov 20 22:33:08 <sivang> err
Nov 20 22:33:08 <w00t> marnanel: try hit y=0 repeatedly until you get a toolbar
Nov 20 22:33:11 <sivang> marnanel: ^
Nov 20 22:33:13 <w00t> (and try to not hit anything else)
Nov 20 22:33:19 <marnanel> aha.  will try.  thanks
Nov 20 22:33:19 <andybleaden> sivang, can you repost link
Nov 20 22:33:22 <lcuk> sivang, "hover pointer"
Nov 20 22:33:25 <lcuk> not practical
Nov 20 22:33:27 <w00t> (also, hello marnanel!)
Nov 20 22:33:32 <marnanel> w00t: hello :)
Nov 20 22:33:33 <lcuk> autohide toolbars are the devil in touch ui
Nov 20 22:33:49 <sivang> lcuk: sincea touch interface?
Nov 20 22:33:51 * marnanel goes to cook dinner
Nov 20 22:33:54 <lcuk> without some nobble (like maemo) to open it and a lock button to keep it there ;)
Nov 20 22:33:58 <sivang> lcuk: ah, oka
Nov 20 22:34:10 <lcuk> sivang, you cant realistically/happily open the meego top bar in tablet mode
Nov 20 22:34:21 <lcuk> because it needs cursor at y=0
Nov 20 22:34:29 <lcuk> which is tough with a bezel
Nov 20 22:34:58 <sivang> andybleaden: http://www.pragmaticmarketing.com/publications/magazine/6/4/you_cant_innovate_like_apple
Nov 20 22:35:01 <sivang> lcuk: ok
Nov 20 22:35:02 <lcuk> biggest missing feature whilst doing stuff on netbook
Nov 20 22:35:05 <w00t> lcuk: i maintain it's the devil even without a touch ui
Nov 20 22:35:06 <lcuk> missing clock
Nov 20 22:35:11 <w00t> it's confusing to have key ui elements vanish
Nov 20 22:35:14 <lcuk> yes
Nov 20 22:35:45 <sivang> lcuk: I've been using both touch and keyboard(touchpad) so had no issue in hovering pointer
Nov 20 22:35:49 <lcuk> the nice one is on the app list/launcher, you have to try and guess where the pin to favorites icon will be when you tap
Nov 20 22:35:49 <andybleaden> sivang, cheers.will have a look
Nov 20 22:36:04 <thebootroo> i agree : no autohide in meego handset plz
Nov 20 22:36:11 <sivang> andybleaden: great
Nov 20 22:36:13 <lcuk> sivang, if you are using it in laptop mode, then the topbar is less useful to you
Nov 20 22:36:27 <andybleaden> lcuk, it is hard enough with the touchpad and tongue stuck out!
Nov 20 22:36:27 <lcuk> it should be on the bottom so that it becomes an extension row of keys
Nov 20 22:36:33 <sivang> anyway, back to nodeload/nodejs
Nov 20 22:36:36 <lcuk> and easily usable whilst keeping hands near keyboard
Nov 20 22:36:54 <lcuk> andybleaden, the touchpad is not nice I try best to ignore it
Nov 20 22:36:55 <sivang> lcuk: indeed.
Nov 20 22:37:40 <lcuk> i made a few notes on my wiki talk page
Nov 20 22:37:41 <lcuk> http://wiki.meego.com/User_talk:Lcuk
Nov 20 22:38:10 <andybleaden> lcuk, I still have to use a lenovo s10-2 so touchpad is all I have .mind you with cumberland sausages for fingers I am not sure what use a touch screen would be
Nov 20 22:38:33 <lcuk> :) andybleaden sausage fingers work well for touch
Nov 20 22:38:44 <lcuk> but not for fiddly ui
Nov 20 22:39:19 <sivang> andybleaden: did we meet at the conf btw?
Nov 20 22:39:52 <andybleaden> sivang, nope.could not go.been on meego/moblin for a while
Nov 20 22:40:21 <andybleaden> sivang, and been on meego netbook forums since launch as andybleaden :)
Nov 20 22:40:57 <sivang> andybleaden: ah, k :)
Nov 20 22:41:25 * lcuk thought lenovos had nipples
Nov 20 22:42:29 <andybleaden> *nope those are people
Nov 20 22:42:38 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: great notes
Nov 20 22:42:43 <timeless_mbp> => bugs?
Nov 20 22:43:07 <lcuk> yes sure
Nov 20 22:43:15 <lcuk> just organising myself
Nov 20 22:43:24 <lcuk> i had no internet on it and only gedit to type with
Nov 20 22:43:25 * timeless_mbp nods
Nov 20 22:43:31 <timeless_mbp> err
Nov 20 22:43:40 <timeless_mbp> were you one of those "I do not like the red stripe" people
Nov 20 22:43:44 * timeless_mbp bets lcuk was
Nov 20 22:43:55 <lcuk> i have installed the red stripe
Nov 20 22:44:02 <lcuk> i made those notes elsewhere
Nov 20 22:44:06 <timeless_mbp> ah
Nov 20 22:44:21 <timeless_mbp> i wrote a "how to launch apps and manage files using a Gecko browser" while in Flight
Nov 20 22:44:22 <lcuk> at the conf I tried my best not to use device
Nov 20 22:44:36 <timeless_mbp> we had a platform w/o a file manager
Nov 20 22:44:41 <timeless_mbp> but we had Gecko :)
Nov 20 22:44:43 <lcuk> we were there to talk with people and I dont like having my head buried in a laptop
Nov 20 22:44:44 <andybleaden> Have you all with new lenovos got your wifi sorted then
Nov 20 22:44:58 <leinir> lcuk: there was networking to be done of the squishy human interaction sort ;)
Nov 20 22:44:58 <timeless_mbp> andybleaden: there was a choice
Nov 20 22:45:01 <andybleaden> been a pain with my lenovo for the last 12 months
Nov 20 22:45:09 <andybleaden> choice!?
Nov 20 22:45:10 <timeless_mbp> purists took the stripe free usb stick = no wifi
Nov 20 22:45:12 <lcuk> yes leinir and a great much of it did do :)
Nov 20 22:45:20 <leinir> *nods* :)
Nov 20 22:45:21 <lcuk> did you get Ians email address/number?
Nov 20 22:45:23 <timeless_mbp> sane people picked the red striped usb stick = binary wifi drivers
Nov 20 22:45:33 <leinir> i got his email, yeah :)
Nov 20 22:45:35 <timeless_mbp> andybleaden: choice
Nov 20 22:45:36 <andybleaden> timeless_mbp, cool
Nov 20 22:45:44 <timeless_mbp> that was rather well done actually
Nov 20 22:45:49 <GAN900> timeless_mbp, most of day 2's batch was Atheros
Nov 20 22:45:51 <timeless_mbp> my biggest complaint is that they gave people UK plugs
Nov 20 22:45:53 <GAN900> If not all of them.
Nov 20 22:46:05 <GAN900> And UK layouts.
Nov 20 22:46:05 <timeless_mbp> thankfully work had spare EU plugs :)
Nov 20 22:46:08 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, thats not a problem realistically since the shipment came from uk
Nov 20 22:46:12 <andybleaden> GAN900, does not the whol
Nov 20 22:46:15 <timeless_mbp> GAN900: better than FI layouts!
Nov 20 22:46:17 * timeless_mbp grumbles
Nov 20 22:46:19 <lcuk> minor - next time it could be taken into consideration
Nov 20 22:46:35 <andybleaden> GAN900, whole world use UK plugs :P
Nov 20 22:46:40 <lcuk> perhaps a percentge of adapters from regions
Nov 20 22:46:42 <timeless_mbp> andybleaden: small world
Nov 20 22:46:48 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: yeah
Nov 20 22:46:56 <andybleaden> timeless_mbp, too right
Nov 20 22:46:57 <timeless_mbp> nokia fwiw in the past has considered this when giving out devices
Nov 20 22:47:09 * timeless_mbp is starting to appreciate nokia for doing that
Nov 20 22:47:15 <lcuk> since those cables are standard
Nov 20 22:47:24 <timeless_mbp> "standard"
Nov 20 22:47:31 <lcuk> you can get them for a few euros/dollars in most computer shops
Nov 20 22:47:36 <timeless_mbp> i didn't have any of this netbook cable lying around my house
Nov 20 22:47:36 <leinir> timeless_mbp: this time was apparently slightly odd, as they had other plans which didn't come through
Nov 20 22:47:43 <lcuk> ok not standard but not really odd and needs mailorder
Nov 20 22:47:47 <thiago_home> we forgot the plugs when we gave out N8s in San Francisco
Nov 20 22:47:48 <timeless_mbp> leinir: oh? interesting
Nov 20 22:47:51 <sivang> timeless_mbp: there's much more than that to appreciate nokia for :)
Nov 20 22:47:51 <leinir> cloverleaf ones? Sure, they're pretty standard
Nov 20 22:47:54 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, all the laptops in our house have similar!
Nov 20 22:47:55 <timeless_mbp> thiago: doh
Nov 20 22:47:57 <thiago_home> I'll put it in the to-do list for the next give-aways
Nov 20 22:48:06 <timeless_mbp> thiago: please do :)
Nov 20 22:48:08 <leinir> thiago_home: ooops :)
Nov 20 22:48:20 <thiago_home> leinir: they were EU plugs in the US
Nov 20 22:48:21 <sivang> thiago_home: N8 giveaways in san fran? woo
Nov 20 22:48:25 <andybleaden> timeless_mbp, mind you after 12 months I have learnt broadcom hacking in ubuntu/kubuntu/fedora/moblin/meego/suse/smeegol and even chrome os
Nov 20 22:48:46 <timeless_mbp> leinir: i have oo, o=o, o=oo, plus the mac chargers
Nov 20 22:48:53 <w00t_> realistically speaking - free hardware, and you're complaining about the charger? :-P
Nov 20 22:49:06 <timeless_mbp> w00t: i have an iPod touch
Nov 20 22:49:09 <timeless_mbp> i can't find its charger
Nov 20 22:49:13 <sivang> I am always prepared with adaptors, so never problem to me
Nov 20 22:49:14 <timeless_mbp> do you know how useful it is to me today?
Nov 20 22:49:25 <w00t_> timeless_mbp: if you don't want it, I'll be glad to take it off of you
Nov 20 22:49:30 <timeless_mbp> heh
Nov 20 22:49:32 <kyb3R> :)
Nov 20 22:49:34 <w00t_> I have no charger either, but I can most likely get one very easily
Nov 20 22:49:40 <timeless_mbp> technically i think nokia owns it...
Nov 20 22:50:12 <andybleaden> timeless_mbp, strange when I bought my lenovo it came with uk and eu plugs
Nov 20 22:50:19 <w00t_> point being I'd rather pay X.00 to XX.00 for a charger than XXX.00 for the hardware, retail
Nov 20 22:50:31 <sivang> w00t_==
Nov 20 22:50:31 <timeless_mbp> andybleaden: interesting
Nov 20 22:50:42 <w00t_> (in my case, it's actually no problem as I travel so often I have so many goddamn adapters for various countries..)
Nov 20 22:50:44 <timeless_mbp> w00t_: sure
Nov 20 22:50:45 <lcuk> andybleaden, thats a nice touch
Nov 20 22:51:04 <w00t_> ironically enough
Nov 20 22:51:14 <w00t_> despite living in the UK right now, I have more european cables than UK ones
Nov 20 22:51:19 <w00t_> I've had to start using EU->UK adapters
Nov 20 22:51:24 <timeless_mbp> heh
Nov 20 22:51:31 <timeless_mbp> i learned ages ago to just have power strips
Nov 20 22:51:31 <w00t_> I have no idea how that happened
Nov 20 22:51:32 <andybleaden> timeless_mbp, might be or it was a dodgy plug! did you all sort out your 3g phone sim thing.tried a normal phone sim..got stuck...doh!
Nov 20 22:51:37 <timeless_mbp> and adapters for the strip plug
Nov 20 22:51:50 <lcuk> w00t_, as timeless pointer out: get a power strip in the style all your stuff is and use a single localised convertor
Nov 20 22:52:05 <timeless_mbp> andybleaden: mostly yeah
Nov 20 22:52:18 <w00t_> lcuk: could do, but I don't have a european power strip at present :-)
Nov 20 22:52:26 <timeless_mbp> after yelling at a clerk in a brick+mortar store for lying to me
Nov 20 22:52:32 <timeless_mbp> w00t_: that can be solved
Nov 20 22:52:37 <timeless_mbp> i could have left one behind
Nov 20 22:52:40 <timeless_mbp> i brought two..
Nov 20 22:52:49 <w00t_> I'll probably try pick one up at christmas
Nov 20 22:52:58 * lcuk still giggles at emphasis the conf badges had on first names
Nov 20 22:52:59 <andybleaden> get on t'ebay
Nov 20 22:53:00 * w00t_ will be going to norway as usual
Nov 20 22:53:10 <w00t_> lcuk: I'm still waiting for you to /nick luck
Nov 20 22:53:20 <leinir> lcuk: Yeah, first names, and no irc nicks ;)
Nov 20 22:53:39 <sivang> w00t_: there's someone by that nick already
Nov 20 22:53:42 <w00t_> leinir: mine had w00t on it, in brackets (because I thought to put it on there)
Nov 20 22:53:47 <lcuk> w00t_, luck comes in here already
Nov 20 22:53:54 * lcuk started the conference with luck
Nov 20 22:54:02 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: yeah well
Nov 20 22:54:05 <w00t_> lcuk: right, point being that he can take lcuk, and we'll all then be really confused
Nov 20 22:54:08 <timeless_mbp> did people comment clearly on that?
Nov 20 22:54:08 <leinir> w00t_: And mine had leinir on it, because it's part of my name... but still :)
Nov 20 22:54:08 <w00t_> ;)
Nov 20 22:54:12 <lcuk> w00t_, many people found out timeless_mbp's first name!
Nov 20 22:54:25 <w00t_> I don't think I met timeless_mbp, unfortunately. still
Nov 20 22:54:25 <andybleaden> were all of you who went to meegoconf developers then
Nov 20 22:54:35 <lcuk> andybleaden, a lot of us were yeah
Nov 20 22:54:36 <timeless_mbp> w00t_: i missed slaine too
Nov 20 22:54:40 <andybleaden> hmmm
Nov 20 22:54:43 <timeless_mbp> we need to make shopping lists of people to meet
Nov 20 22:54:55 <w00t_> timeless_mbp: I had one, but the problem is.. there were *so* many interesting people..
Nov 20 22:55:04 <w00t_> that plus the talks meant I was already rushed off my feet
Nov 20 22:55:16 <andybleaden> lcuk, he was real helpful with moblin for me.big into IVI if I remember
Nov 20 22:55:23 <w00t_> plus taking ~2 hours of Qt exams on monday didn't help
Nov 20 22:55:42 <lcuk> andybleaden, a guy called luck?
Nov 20 22:56:01 <andybleaden> lcuk, nope glen (slaine)
Nov 20 22:56:20 <lcuk> ahh cross talking about things
Nov 20 22:56:29 <lcuk> digital badges with location would be good
Nov 20 22:56:32 <lcuk> "where is w00t"
Nov 20 22:56:41 <andybleaden> lcuk, sorry
Nov 20 22:56:43 <lcuk> "where is lcuk"
Nov 20 22:56:43 <sivang> no need,there are enough mobile apps for that :)
Nov 20 22:56:55 <lcuk> "Gary is in the presedential suite"
Nov 20 22:57:02 <timeless_mbp> not badges...
Nov 20 22:57:03 <lcuk> sivang, gps doesnt work indoors
Nov 20 22:57:10 <timeless_mbp> bluetooth mesh networks
Nov 20 22:57:13 <lcuk> ++
Nov 20 22:57:17 <timeless_mbp> you tell your phone who you want to meet
Nov 20 22:57:17 <sivang> lcuk: in door positioning using bluetooth or wifi
Nov 20 22:57:19 <w00t_> I also think that at the next conference
Nov 20 22:57:23 <w00t_> badges should be much bigger
Nov 20 22:57:25 <w00t_> and NEON FLASHING
Nov 20 22:57:25 <timeless_mbp> it finds out who's nearby
Nov 20 22:57:27 <sivang> lcuk: digia has experience with setups like this
Nov 20 22:57:39 <lcuk> then I will talk with them some more then
Nov 20 22:57:39 <w00t_> because I got sick of peering at someone trying to work out who they were for like 40 seconds
Nov 20 22:57:41 <sivang> specifically, wifi in door positioning
Nov 20 22:57:44 <andybleaden> w00t, or tshirts with names on
Nov 20 22:57:46 <timeless_mbp> and tells you who's on your list nearby
Nov 20 22:58:00 <lcuk> w00t_, some of the lanyards were so long it almost felt like looking at crotch
Nov 20 22:58:02 <w00t_> granted, I also need new glasses, or contacts
Nov 20 22:58:02 <timeless_mbp> w00t_: it takes me 50+s :)
Nov 20 22:58:16 <w00t_> timeless_mbp: yeah
Nov 20 22:58:27 <w00t_> in some cases it took me a few *minutes*
Nov 20 22:58:31 <tybollt> w00t
Nov 20 22:58:31 <w00t_> which was a bit embarrasing
Nov 20 22:58:42 <lcuk> i just got round to asking people what they did
Nov 20 22:58:43 <lcuk> :)
Nov 20 22:58:45 <w00t_> "so, person I've been talking to for the past hour, who are you?"
Nov 20 22:58:52 <GAN900> w00t_, need to let Randy design it again next time.
Nov 20 22:58:55 <sivang> w00t_: my sister loves the collabora shit with the open source ninja
Nov 20 22:58:58 <sivang> w00t_: thanks
Nov 20 22:59:10 <w00t_> sivang: collabora shit!? :o
Nov 20 22:59:16 <lcuk> i hope you mean shirt
Nov 20 22:59:16 <GAN900> w00t_, I took a cab to the airport with Timo before I connected the dots!
Nov 20 22:59:17 <sivang> w00t_: shirt
Nov 20 22:59:21 <w00t_> i didn't think we used that for marketing purposes!
Nov 20 22:59:25 <w00t_> ;)
Nov 20 22:59:33 <sivang> sorry :/
Nov 20 22:59:37 <sivang> bad bad keyboard!
Nov 20 22:59:51 <sivang> but I have my netbook now, and soon his laptop is going to someone else
Nov 20 22:59:56 <w00t_> irony of ironies, i've just been wasting time^W^Wworking hard by spending some time on http://damnyouautocorrect.com/
Nov 20 23:00:04 <w00t_> great, great amusement
Nov 20 23:00:46 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, the qa-tools testrunner application has a mechanism to create documented gui flows for bug testing purposes
Nov 20 23:00:47 <sivang> haha
Nov 20 23:01:05 <sivang> lcuk: with TDriver?
Nov 20 23:01:07 <lcuk> it worked well and would work offline too, had I got it installed, I would have made my buglist into those things
Nov 20 23:01:09 <lcuk> yes
Nov 20 23:01:36 <andybleaden> many of you pep
Nov 20 23:01:55 * Jay_BEE heads for the Qt bug tracker
Nov 20 23:02:18 <sivang> lcuk: Did we get to talk at conf?
Nov 20 23:02:20 <w00t_> Jay_BEE: hrrm?
Nov 20 23:02:29 <lcuk> sivang, not sure
Nov 20 23:02:31 <lcuk> photo?
Nov 20 23:02:33 <lcuk> or you
Nov 20 23:02:44 <andybleaden> sorry ..many of you people managed to try sorting mpeg4 /mp4 support other than via a long terminal session.
Nov 20 23:03:21 <Jay_BEE> w00t:  trying out qt creator 2.1 beta2... seems for me building and deploying app to n900 does not work
Nov 20 23:03:43 <lcuk> andybleaden, not yet afaik
Nov 20 23:03:46 <Jay_BEE> it works with 2.01
Nov 20 23:03:48 <andybleaden> tried in moblin but it took ages and lots of terminal session.obviously fluendo would save time but is there another way
Nov 20 23:03:52 <timeless_mbp> w00t_: nice
Nov 20 23:04:21 <w00t_> Jay_BEE: hrrm, surprising.. hit up #qt-creator tomorrow (probably best during european daytime) too if you can - lots of helpful folks there
Nov 20 23:05:16 <Jay_BEE> w00t: i'm there now and hear nothing but crickets and see a bunch of tumbleweed rolling around..
Nov 20 23:06:04 <w00t_> Jay_BEE: yeah.. european nighttime is not a good time for most of the creator hackers
Nov 20 23:06:44 <Jay_BEE> w00t: cool...thanks for the tip
Nov 20 23:06:53 <sivang> lcuk: sivan greenberg, at the left with a black shirt http://www.maemonokian900.com/maemo-news/meego-conference-building-bridges-literally/
Nov 20 23:07:28 <Jay_BEE> now if we could get some love with getting uboot added to the meego 1.2 handset nightlies :)
Nov 20 23:07:53 <lcuk> sivang, I think you were in some of the adhoc discussion groups but I dont think we spoke 1:1
Nov 20 23:08:39 <sivang> lcuk: yes, makes sense. I would have remembered. I did see a name tag with your name on for a friction of a second at some point :)
Nov 20 23:09:15 <lcuk> sivang, yeah likely
Nov 20 23:11:58 * lcuk remembers a lovely chat with one of the aava guys 
Nov 20 23:12:29 <lcuk> outside the brewery
Nov 20 23:12:31 <lcuk> :)
Nov 20 23:12:34 <andybleaden> sivang, have you managed to get your meego to change any themes permanently yet
Nov 20 23:12:39 * thiago_home didn't meet anyone from aava
Nov 20 23:12:50 <sivang> me neither, could have been itneresting to meet some of them
Nov 20 23:12:57 <leinir> Hmm... yeah, me neither...
Nov 20 23:12:59 <sivang> andybleaden: haven't really tried
Nov 20 23:13:12 <sivang> I did not even know aava people are there
Nov 20 23:13:14 <lcuk> corporate logo/name might be useful on future badges
Nov 20 23:13:16 <lcuk> for confs
Nov 20 23:13:18 <andybleaden> anyone else managed?
Nov 20 23:13:19 <sivang> yes
Nov 20 23:13:26 <WIIman> i can change wallpaper , but didnt know themes could be changed
Nov 20 23:13:33 <lcuk> i spoke to people from many corporations
Nov 20 23:14:19 <thiago_home> too many people in the conf
Nov 20 23:14:30 <leinir> lcuk: actually, i found it refreshing to walk up to people and have a nice conversation, and then find out they were some high level person in whatever corporation or somesuch...
Nov 20 23:14:30 <w00t> lcuk: I stuck a sticker on mine :-)
Nov 20 23:14:47 <andybleaden> WIIman, they can or used to be via sudo gnome-appearance-properties but they don't seem to stay changed
Nov 20 23:14:47 <w00t> thiago_home: I never did get to corner you later on :-P
Nov 20 23:14:53 <thiago_home> w00t: yeah
Nov 20 23:14:55 <lcuk> thiago_home, fosdem is larger
Nov 20 23:15:04 <thiago_home> lcuk: so is fisl
Nov 20 23:15:06 <lcuk> leinir, good point
Nov 20 23:15:12 <leinir> w00t: Yup, me too - texrat's leinir meegon ;) i was also told it looked just right at home there, as though it was supposed to be there, which was kinda neat ;)
Nov 20 23:15:14 <lcuk> actually, yes agreed
Nov 20 23:15:20 <lcuk> but when looking for specific people
Nov 20 23:15:26 <thiago_home> lcuk: 7000 there, but not many interesting people to meet
Nov 20 23:15:27 <lcuk> it made it hard to do
Nov 20 23:15:37 <lcuk> thiago_home, every one of them is interested
Nov 20 23:15:40 <lcuk> and interesting
Nov 20 23:16:14 <thiago_home> lcuk: not at fisl
Nov 20 23:16:22 <lcuk> i met someone doing biological research at uni
Nov 20 23:16:29 <lcuk> ahh right
Nov 20 23:16:34 <w00t> speaking of fosdem, I wonder if I should go this time
Nov 20 23:16:50 <w00t> I've intended to go for 2008/2009/2010, and neither of them managed to happen for various reasons
Nov 20 23:16:50 <lcuk> it was good last year, where is it this time??
Nov 20 23:17:07 <lcuk> *this year and next time
Nov 20 23:17:26 <w00t> brussels, according to the website
Nov 20 23:18:20 <smoku> lbt, is OBS down?
Nov 20 23:18:23 <sivang> thiago_home: btw, got my email?
Nov 20 23:18:31 <thiago_home> sivang: yes, I did
Nov 20 23:18:44 <thiago_home> sivang: like I told you, I don't think you offended
Nov 20 23:18:57 <thiago_home> just a matter of having the problems you guys pointed out being to be addressed
Nov 20 23:19:12 <thiago_home> first step in fixing a problem is to identify it
Nov 20 23:19:35 <berndhs> I identified my problem as not finding QAudioInput :)
Nov 20 23:19:37 <timeless_mbp> iirc fosdem is always brussels
Nov 20 23:19:46 <lcuk> thx timeless_mbp
Nov 20 23:19:49 <lcuk> and w00t
Nov 20 23:20:30 <timeless_mbp> thiago: someone's addressing problems?
Nov 20 23:20:35 <timeless_mbp> publicly?
Nov 20 23:21:54 <thiago_home> timeless_mbp: I don't know, but we should be, shouldn't we?
Nov 20 23:22:12 <thiago_home> but like I said, thanks for pointing out where problems needed solving in the first place
Nov 20 23:22:13 <timeless_mbp> that'd be nice, yes
Nov 20 23:22:36 <sivang> thiago_home: what about the focus groups / feedback workshops do you think its feasible ? a conf could be a good place to have these, with a giveaway as an incentive perhaps?
Nov 20 23:22:38 <timeless_mbp> sorry, it's hard to know what the context is
Nov 20 23:22:53 <thiago_home> sivang: focus groups yes
Nov 20 23:22:58 <thiago_home> why a giveaway?
Nov 20 23:23:10 <sivang> thiago_home: well, it is not mandatory
Nov 20 23:23:35 * thiago_home isn't following
Nov 20 23:23:37 <sivang> thiago_home: just a suggestion to incent participation. Although without it, I am sure we'd get wide participatios
Nov 20 23:24:15 <sivang> thiago_home: the netbook giveaway could be great opportunity if we had the laptops preinstalled
Nov 20 23:24:21 <sivang> thiago_home: *have been
Nov 20 23:26:24 <sivang> thiago_home: for next time, we could use this event for such. People spent quite some time installing etc, assuming we have preinstaled devices either handsets/netbooks/tablets this time can be utilized for feedback, perhaps. (I'm thining outloud)
Nov 20 23:26:38 <sivang> *thinking
Nov 20 23:27:18 <thiago_home> how would a giveaway make an incentive for feedback on the communtiy?
Nov 20 23:28:59 <GAN900> I think we're more than happy to give our feedback for free! *g*
Nov 20 23:29:22 <WIIman> it would people a chance to see meego  in action and buy next avalable broduct or diferant one with meego on it
Nov 20 23:29:30 <WIIman> insentives work
Nov 20 23:29:55 <thiago_home> I don't want people to come to a community focus group only to get a giveaway
Nov 20 23:30:08 <WIIman> to bad the jins keep moving my keys
Nov 20 23:30:11 <thiago_home> that's why they're never announced
Nov 20 23:30:25 <thiago_home> you never know what you may or may not get (SF for example)
Nov 20 23:30:46 <lcuk> thiago_home, of course not, but theres a group of people now who have a reproducable, specific dedicated machine and workhorse
Nov 20 23:31:52 <sivang> thiago_home: that was just a suggestion, I personally don't think it is neccessary but such giveaways tha take place already could also form a ground for feedback
Nov 20 23:32:50 <WIIman> batterry life seems much better under meego
Nov 20 23:33:05 <thiago_home> feedback on the device itself?
Nov 20 23:33:39 <WIIman> combo feedback its on my dell mini and meego
Nov 20 23:34:05 <WIIman> with is very intell driven
Nov 20 23:34:26 <lcuk> WIIman, do you have any hardware integration issues/bugs filed ?
Nov 20 23:34:34 <lcuk> or is it happily running?
Nov 20 23:34:45 <WIIman> no hardware issues to file
Nov 20 23:34:55 <lcuk> do all hte button work?
Nov 20 23:34:59 <WIIman> gotta have bugs to squish
Nov 20 23:35:07 <fcrochik> anybody knows of any qt project on meego obs? I would like to have one as an example of spec files... by the way I am planning to write a howto for a simple qt app all the way....is anybody working on it?
Nov 20 23:35:22 <sivang> thiago_home: feedback on either: device+ os combo, on the releaseon the device, or on any new feature we would like to get feedback on.
Nov 20 23:35:58 <WIIman> well maye one now that i think
Nov 20 23:36:50 <WIIman> it mounts usb device once then once unmounted it wont mount it again till the system restarts meego 1.1 netbook ill file that
Nov 20 23:37:06 <lcuk> eek, ok then \o
Nov 20 23:37:08 <sivang> thiago_home: so there can be general questionire, and drill downs, including live session where a host interacts with audience enabling brainstomring. given the diverse nature of people (OEMs, end users, developers) this could be interesting.
Nov 20 23:38:02 <thiago_home> sivang: nokia does that, of course
Nov 20 23:38:13 <thiago_home> except that people sign NDAs and are not allowed to talk about it
Nov 20 23:38:17 <thiago_home> and not in conferences
Nov 20 23:38:28 <lcuk> this is where meego is different
Nov 20 23:38:45 <thiago_home> well, no. Nokia will make its own UI, independent of MeeGo.
Nov 20 23:38:54 <thiago_home> we can talk about the reference UI though.
Nov 20 23:39:12 <WIIman> the netbook UI rocks
Nov 20 23:39:14 <lcuk> sure, but you are also talking about the netbook ux too
Nov 20 23:39:21 <thiago_home> ok
Nov 20 23:39:24 <thiago_home> that can be done
Nov 20 23:39:37 <thiago_home> I just thought we were discussing community improvement and meego the project
Nov 20 23:39:39 <thiago_home> not the UI
Nov 20 23:39:44 <thiago_home> hence my confusion
Nov 20 23:40:07 * lcuk nods
Nov 20 23:40:08 <WIIman> my ony complaint about meego is very few apps for it
Nov 20 23:40:41 <thiago_home> you mean meego netbook
Nov 20 23:40:47 <WIIman> i know that will change in time though
Nov 20 23:40:49 <thiago_home> for the other verticals, those apps make little sense
Nov 20 23:40:59 <WIIman> yeh meego netbook
Nov 20 23:41:21 <sivang> thiago_home: yes, feedback on the open reference UI for handset
Nov 20 23:41:42 * thiago_home wouldn't spend much time on that
Nov 20 23:41:53 <sivang> thiago_home: oh ?
Nov 20 23:42:35 <marnanel> lcuk: were you doing things with onscreen keyboards?
Nov 20 23:43:10 <lcuk> marnanel, there are some instructions for osk stuff around, I havent looked yet tbh not been on any computer all day practically
Nov 20 23:44:14 <WIIman> i dont like onskreen kbs on tablets the ones i seen take half the screen or more
Nov 20 23:44:34 <WIIman> one reson i got a netbook
Nov 20 23:44:38 <lcuk> sure
Nov 20 23:44:49 <lcuk> but osk on a slate is practical
Nov 20 23:45:12 <marnanel> lcuk: oh okay.  Just wanted to bounce a related idea off you
Nov 20 23:45:12 <sivang> thiago_home: you mean, since it is just a reference UX?
Nov 20 23:45:20 <thiago_home> yes
Nov 20 23:45:34 <thiago_home> it should be made nice, but don't spend too much time on it
Nov 20 23:45:40 <WIIman> practacle yes but efficiant no not when use lose lots of screen estate
Nov 20 23:45:46 <sivang> thiago_home: okaym, thanks for this important note
Nov 20 23:45:47 <thiago_home> nokia won't use it, for instance
Nov 20 23:45:56 <lcuk> WIIman, sure, I got an n810 and n900 purely because they had a keyboard
Nov 20 23:46:12 <thiago_home> an OEM could, but then it's their business to ensure it meets their needs
Nov 20 23:46:24 <thiago_home> but we can reverse the question and say that no OEM will use it unless it's good
Nov 20 23:46:33 <thiago_home> or more strongly: no OEM will use meego unless there's a good UX
Nov 20 23:46:45 <thiago_home> at this point, I don't know whether that's the case
Nov 20 23:47:08 <WIIman> i love my netbook it lets sit at table comfortably and see screen at a nice angle
Nov 20 23:47:09 * lcuk nods
Nov 20 23:47:31 <lcuk> i have my device in slate mode between my keyboard and kneess
Nov 20 23:47:34 <lcuk> knees
Nov 20 23:47:49 <marnanel> lcuk: so someone at the conference said (not in these terms) that what we need is to take n-grams of English text and produce Markov chains such that after n-1 letters entered on the osk, the three or so most likely following letters became *slightly* larger
Nov 20 23:47:55 <lcuk> where my a4 pad would normally sit
Nov 20 23:47:56 <WIIman> tablets have aplace i quess i just havnt jumped on the train yet
Nov 20 23:48:09 <marnanel> lcuk: I can write and train the back end for this easily, it's the sort of thing I do all the time.
Nov 20 23:48:11 <lcuk> yes marnanel
Nov 20 23:48:21 <marnanel> lcuk: so I wondered whether you know whether anyone else was working on it
Nov 20 23:48:24 <marnanel> lcuk: otherwise I might.
Nov 20 23:48:24 <lcuk> i recall the conversation also
Nov 20 23:48:38 <thiago_home> marnanel: they don't have to be larger. Just their hit areas.
Nov 20 23:48:44 <marnanel> thiago_home: true
Nov 20 23:48:46 <sivang> thiago_home: yes, mythought was to have good enough upstream UI that most OEMs will either adopt or follow the practices
Nov 20 23:49:12 <lcuk> marnanel, I remarked that to slightly dim the other non useful characters would be a good visual indicator
Nov 20 23:49:22 <marnanel> lcuk: oh yeah, I remember you saying that
Nov 20 23:49:40 <marnanel> lcuk: I could probably fix up UI stuff to do that.  but atm I am thinking about the back-end implementation
Nov 20 23:49:58 <marnanel> I think this could be a thing of great niftiness
Nov 20 23:50:12 <lcuk> i heard the keymats for the vkb are a big ass svg file
Nov 20 23:50:12 <rrix> i heard the keymats for the vkb are a big ass-svg file
Nov 20 23:50:22 * marnanel blinks
Nov 20 23:50:27 <lcuk> wtf
Nov 20 23:50:51 <marnanel> does rrix repeat anything with big ass foo in it?
Nov 20 23:50:52 <lcuk> huh "i heard the keymats for the vkb are a big ass svg file"
Nov 20 23:50:52 <rrix> huh "i heard the keymats for the vkb are a big ass-svg file"
Nov 20 23:50:52 <rrix> does rrix repeat anything with big ass-foo in it?
Nov 20 23:50:59 <marnanel> yes.  gosh, that's silly.
Nov 20 23:51:05 <lcuk> yes big ass
Nov 20 23:51:11 <lcuk> yes big ass hmm
Nov 20 23:51:11 <rrix> yes big ass-hmm
Nov 20 23:51:17 <marnanel> I think it's a reference to an xkcd
Nov 20 23:51:46 <marnanel> http://xkcd.com/37/
Nov 20 23:51:55 <lcuk> anyway, not sure if those keymats can have birightness modified on the fly or if the hitzones can be effected
Nov 20 23:52:03 <lcuk> and I am not sure how I would proceed using qml
Nov 20 23:52:24 <lcuk> whether you can have an element but have its hit area larger without intefering
Nov 20 23:52:31 <marnanel> I don't know either.
Nov 20 23:52:35 <lcuk> at a guess
Nov 20 23:52:37 <rrix> woops
Nov 20 23:52:40 <rrix> god damnit
Nov 20 23:52:42 <marnanel> rrix: hush
Nov 20 23:52:43 <rrix> sorry guys
Nov 20 23:52:54 <lcuk> making a new transparant layer ontop with bigger hitzones would suffice
Nov 20 23:52:57 <rrix> I have root on this machine, I'm gonna go delete that script finally
Nov 20 23:52:59 * marnanel nods
Nov 20 23:53:16 * lcuk hmms
Nov 20 23:53:42 <lcuk> i am wondering how I would implement it by thinking about the liqbase keyboard
Nov 20 23:53:58 <lcuk> marnanel, how many potential keys would we need to show larger
Nov 20 23:54:23 <WIIman> im not big on getting freebies but you would have to give me a tablet or at least loan me one so i can see its viabilaty before i would consideer giving up my netbook
Nov 20 23:54:25 <marnanel> lcuk: I am thinking three-ish.  more than that would defeat the point
Nov 20 23:54:33 <WIIman> i just love this thing
Nov 20 23:54:49 <lcuk> marnanel, reasonable
Nov 20 23:55:48 <lcuk> so holding a group of transparent redefinable (and relocatable) widgets sitting ontop of the keyboard which would offer larger hitzone for the press would work?
Nov 20 23:55:59 * timeless_mbp sighs
Nov 20 23:56:00 <marnanel> I believe so, yes
Nov 20 23:56:01 <marnanel> lcuk: so if I wrote a library where you gave it zero to three letters and it returned a string of three characters which were likely to follow, that would be a start
Nov 20 23:56:10 <marnanel> plus the database
Nov 20 23:56:12 * timeless_mbp kicks intel, lenovo, nvda, and of course... nokia
Nov 20 23:56:19 <lcuk> marnanel, one thing about keyboards - using circular distance algorythms from the centre of each letter
Nov 20 23:56:24 <lcuk> rather than a rectangle hitzone
Nov 20 23:56:24 <timeless_mbp> these idiots didn't include descriptions for their services
Nov 20 23:56:28 <lcuk> would be nicer potentially
Nov 20 23:56:41 <marnanel> timeless_mbp: ah, but we know now: they *can* organise a piss-up in a brewery
Nov 20 23:57:05 <lcuk> marnanel, so the library would accept a string
Nov 20 23:57:15 <lcuk> which is the text leading upto the cursor current position
Nov 20 23:57:28 <lcuk> marnanel, ++
Nov 20 23:57:43 <marnanel> lcuk: circular> yes, we just use pythagoras with respect to each letter and find the shortest maybe, with weighting for the more likely letters
Nov 20 23:57:49 <marnanel> lcuk: yes
Nov 20 23:57:50 <lcuk> such an apt phrase for the sheer awesomeness of the event
Nov 20 23:59:26 <lcuk> marnanel, lets talk again on monday after getting some thoughts sunk in
Nov 20 23:59:35 <marnanel> lcuk: yeah, good plan
Nov 20 23:59:42 <lcuk> do you want to perhaps copy paste this convo into the wiki
Nov 20 23:59:42 <marnanel> lcuk: I'll hack around with ngrams a bit maybe
Nov 20 23:59:50 <marnanel> lcuk: the meego wiki? sure
Nov 20 23:59:57 <lcuk> and then we can flesh it out and do some bits with it
Nov 21 00:00:00 <marnanel> sure
Nov 21 00:00:56 <lcuk> marnanel, read up on how fmms started :) its a good model for creating applications over the internet
Nov 21 00:01:21 <lcuk> (also started based on a conversation)
Nov 21 00:01:58 * lcuk pokes frals 
Nov 21 00:04:27 <sivang> is it possible for someone to use meego as a "base" without getting an official meego stamp?
Nov 21 00:04:39 <lcuk> marnanel, chances are similar algorithm could work well for browser link hitting too
Nov 21 00:05:18 <lcuk> sivang, ?
Nov 21 00:05:57 <leinir> sivang: sure - they just can't call it "meego"... though as i understand they are free to call it "based on meego"... possibly even legally required to do so, what with the license and such
Nov 21 00:06:53 <sivang> leinir: so if I want the promise of quality through MeeGo quality guidelines and stringest process, I buy a meedo device, not a based one.
Nov 21 00:07:07 <sivang> or rather, a "based on" one.
Nov 21 00:07:16 <leinir> sivang: something like that, i believe... but yeah, meego compliance is still very much up in the air
Nov 21 00:08:49 <sivang> leinir: right
Nov 21 00:08:53 <lcuk> leinir, did you see at the airport, Ian was collared at the gate about his bag collection
Nov 21 00:09:30 <leinir> lcuk: Hmm?
Nov 21 00:09:42 <lcuk> his 5 pieces of handluggage
Nov 21 00:10:02 <sivang> I got a jam taken away from me :-(
Nov 21 00:10:02 <WIIman> i saw where BMW and othere car makere were adopting MeeGo as there incar os
Nov 21 00:10:19 <leinir> WIIman: *nods* GENIVI :)
Nov 21 00:10:42 <leinir> lcuk: Hmm? as in please rephrase, that did not translate in my head ;)
Nov 21 00:10:46 <WIIman> thats a nice start :)
Nov 21 00:11:14 <lcuk> leinir, as Ian got to the gate and you were walking off, did you notice him being caught with all his bags?
Nov 21 00:11:17 <sivang> WIIman: indeed, for "meego based"
Nov 21 00:11:55 <ofauchon> Hi ... is there a debug verbose mode for mad : "mad remote -r meego-handset-ia32-qemu-1.1.20101031.2201-sda-runtime poweron" returns nothing . thx
Nov 21 00:12:04 <leinir> lcuk: No, i can't say that i did...
Nov 21 00:12:22 <WIIman> its meegos future that makes me stand by it as well as how it handles my netbook inspite of the lac of apps that could be avalible for it
Nov 21 00:12:23 <lcuk> bbiab phone
Nov 21 00:12:37 <sivang> night all, see you tomorrow hopefully
Nov 21 00:12:55 * sivang regrets losing the jam to the airport dude
Nov 21 00:13:28 <Alison_Chaiken> WIIman, I have friends at Nvidia (fellow bicycle racers) and they are  pushing MeeGo on Tegra for IVI.
Nov 21 00:13:59 <lcuk> ooh
Nov 21 00:14:18 <arfoll> tbh nvidia have been pushing tegra for how long?
Nov 21 00:14:21 <arfoll> and still no products
Nov 21 00:14:35 <Alison_Chaiken> WIIman, I can't say more as I have been following public announcements, but MeeGo in cars is looking pretty strong.   I wish an IVI SDK were available that would run in QEMU.
Nov 21 00:14:57 <Alison_Chaiken> arfoll, the Zune and (regrettable) Kin are both Tegra IIRC.
Nov 21 00:15:22 <arfoll> lol awesome success...
Nov 21 00:15:39 <arfoll> and isn't the zune tegra1?
Nov 21 00:15:49 <arfoll> tegra2 actually has no products I know of
Nov 21 00:15:52 <Tili> hi guys. i am getting "Not enough space" error when I try to write Meego image to sd card. Using windows.
Nov 21 00:15:54 <Alison_Chaiken> arfoll, the Zune is a pretty great product even though: 1) it has sold poorly; 2) it's made by Waldemort.
Nov 21 00:17:24 <arfoll> Alison_Chaiken, but its a shame, on specs at least the tegra2 looked nice, now with the new ST chips and OMAP4 out it looks like tegra2 passed it's prime
Nov 21 00:17:30 <berndhs> has lbt gone to sleep ?
Nov 21 00:19:18 <Alison_Chaiken> Dunno arfoll, but since TI gave me a free Pandaboard last week in Dublin, my personal plans involve the OMAP4!   Bummed to see that I have to solder on the board to use the LCD output though.
Nov 21 00:19:41 <arfoll> awesome how did you manage to get a free panda?
Nov 21 00:20:25 <marnanel> lcuk: http://wiki.meego.com/Predictive_virtual_keyboard
Nov 21 00:21:14 <Tili> guys how can i resolve "Not enough space" issue for placing meego on sd card?
Nov 21 00:21:29 <arfoll> Tili, how big is your SD card?
Nov 21 00:21:36 <Tili> 4GB
Nov 21 00:22:05 <arfoll> and your writing your image with dd?
Nov 21 00:22:30 <Tili> using windows win32-disk-imager
Nov 21 00:22:35 <Alison_Chaiken> arfoll, the TI guys were having a "contest" for the 15 best ideas on projects to build with the Pandaboard.   Let's hope that there were more than 15 entries.   I'm quite serious about building mine, but soldering on those tiny SMT resistors scares me.    I should check if it's working first!
Nov 21 00:22:41 <arfoll> try on linux with dd
Nov 21 00:22:54 <Tili> arfoll: roger that
Nov 21 00:23:07 <arfoll> Alison_Chaiken, good work, I actually didn't propose one stupidly enough forgot about it... damn it!
Nov 21 00:23:54 <Alison_Chaiken> arfoll, you can have mine if I ruin it with the soldering.   But seriously, I'll probably end up spending $170 (what the board costs) on accessories.
Nov 21 00:24:43 <arfoll> Alison_Chaiken, ehehe give me a shout if that happens - I'd like to have a good porting XBMC to omap4 since gst-openmax looks like it'll work quite well on that
Nov 21 00:24:59 <arfoll> s/good/go\ at
Nov 21 00:25:31 <lcuk> marnanel, oooh that looks like a very good start.
Nov 21 00:27:19 * WIIman wishess someone lived close to him that had a meego tablet to play with a few minuts to see it work and weather it was worth the purchase vs the functionality of his netbook
Nov 21 00:27:58 <WIIman> i dont want to waste monney on a tabletonly to find i hate it
Nov 21 00:28:19 <arfoll> WIIman, right now it's probably not worth your money
Nov 21 00:28:59 <WIIman> i have a very nice netbook for what at&t gave it to me for 42 dollers
Nov 21 00:29:34 <WIIman> just for a 2 year agreement and adding it as a second line
Nov 21 00:30:41 <WIIman> sure i had to get a 35 data plan but hell getting a dell mini  10 1012 for 42 dollers was worth it
Nov 21 00:31:33 <WIIman> and meego even lets me use my 3g card
Nov 21 00:31:37 <arfoll> you realise you paid $882 for that netbook?
Nov 21 00:32:12 <WIIman> over the long term yes but short turn only 42 dollers
Nov 21 00:32:52 <arfoll> WIIman, you're the perfect customer ;-)
Nov 21 00:32:55 <WIIman> atleast i didnt have to fork out 400 dollers upfront for it
Nov 21 00:33:47 <WIIman> i dont care att makes eetra monny i got my netbook for cheap at the onset  :)
Nov 21 00:34:18 <WIIman> the ipad was still over 200 dollers for the same plan
Nov 21 00:34:40 <WIIman> so i see it a steel
Nov 21 00:35:24 <WIIman> as long as i get a benifit i am fine letting my vender have one to
Nov 21 00:36:04 <lcuk_idea> hey chaps :) first time on my irc from the ideapad
Nov 21 00:36:10 <WIIman> give a free or cheep device ill pay for it to have 3g or somethng
Nov 21 00:38:07 <timeless_mbp> lcuk_idea: ok, this client sucks, what irc client are you using?
Nov 21 00:38:36 <lcuk_idea> timeless_mbp: direct webchat on chromium and it sucks
Nov 21 00:38:49 <arfoll> someone built xchat for meego
Nov 21 00:38:55 <lcuk_idea> yeah I heard
Nov 21 00:39:04 <timeless_mbp> arfoll: does it suck? :)
Nov 21 00:39:10 <lcuk_idea> i just did this to check something
Nov 21 00:39:14 <lcuk_idea> kathy has xchat installed
Nov 21 00:39:32 <lcuk_idea> she did it herself from timoph's repo
Nov 21 00:39:43 <arfoll> timeless_mbp, it's ok if you like gui clients
Nov 21 00:39:55 <timeless_mbp> does it support fingers?
Nov 21 00:40:09 * lcuk_idea giggles
Nov 21 00:40:13 * timeless_mbp should try comic chat
Nov 21 00:40:20 <timeless_mbp> or in lcuk's case, does it support *limited* fingers? :)
Nov 21 00:40:22 <arfoll> didn't really try - probably not great
Nov 21 00:40:53 <WIIman> where she get xchat ? have to use pidgin as i couldnt get xchat or any other irc client instaalled
Nov 21 00:40:54 * arfoll is enjoying machete
Nov 21 00:41:48 <timeless_mbp> machete?
Nov 21 00:41:53 <lcuk_idea> WIIman: timoph has an obs repository which he has been building some apps into
Nov 21 00:41:54 * timeless_mbp considers comic chat
Nov 21 00:42:02 <arfoll> timeless_mbp, machete - the film
Nov 21 00:42:07 <lcuk_idea> ask him or others where it is
Nov 21 00:42:41 <arfoll> http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/timoph/meego_1.1_core_Netbook/i586/
Nov 21 00:42:44 <WIIman> what he link to the repo and adding it ?
Nov 21 00:43:16 <timeless_mbp> arfoll: what's w/ the : in the url?
Nov 21 00:43:17 <WIIman> lol thanks
Nov 21 00:43:37 <arfoll> timeless_mbp, because obs homes are home:username
Nov 21 00:43:56 <arfoll> it's kinda stupid IMO but that's the way it is
Nov 21 00:44:08 <niala> you can use empathy for irc it's integrated with meego-panel-relation
Nov 21 00:50:06 <timeless_ideapad> hello world
Nov 21 00:50:20 <timeless_ideapad> # Appears as ANNA
Nov 21 00:50:49 * timeless_mbp kicks comic chat
Nov 21 00:51:44 <timeless_ideapad> # Appears as SAGE
Nov 21 00:51:57 <timeless_ideapad> (#G010E010M1) oops
Nov 21 00:52:29 <timeless_ideapad> ?
Nov 21 00:52:56 * w00t blinks
Nov 21 00:53:13 * timeless_ideapad smipes
Nov 21 00:53:42 * arfoll awesomness bios wipe fixes wifi issue :-)
Nov 21 00:53:45 <timeless_ideapad> typing on osk isn't easy
Nov 21 00:53:50 * CosmoHill tilts head
Nov 21 00:54:13 <Robot101> this is why comic chat died in a fire :P
Nov 21 00:54:17 <timeless_mbp> are you guys too young to remember comic chat? :)
Nov 21 00:54:26 <timeless_mbp> i'll post a picture of it...
Nov 21 00:54:39 <CosmoHill> I just step into the channel randomly
Nov 21 00:54:44 <Robot101> we looked at implementing support for the protocol in telepathy as an april fools joke
Nov 21 00:54:58 <Robot101> but we couldn't be bothered :P
Nov 21 00:55:10 <timeless_ideapad> loo
Nov 21 00:55:15 <timeless_ideapad> lol
Nov 21 00:55:34 <timeless_ideapad> s/loo/lol/
Nov 21 00:55:43 <w00t> I think I actually did write something to talk to comic chat years ago
Nov 21 00:56:06 <w00t> or, wait
Nov 21 00:56:13 <w00t> did comic chat talk ircx?
Nov 21 00:56:17 <w00t> i think i'm confusing things
Nov 21 00:56:22 <TrackerDPP> hello
Nov 21 00:56:24 * timeless_mbp thinks it might have
Nov 21 00:56:24 <TrackerDPP> all
Nov 21 00:56:29 <Robot101> its just irc with stupid stuff
Nov 21 00:56:32 <w00t> right
Nov 21 00:56:34 <w00t> ircx :)
Nov 21 00:56:36 <Robot101> # Appears as IDIOT
Nov 21 00:56:47 <Robot101> (#dorkdorkdork) hi
Nov 21 00:56:56 <w00t> i hated ircx with a firey burning passion :p
Nov 21 00:57:03 <w00t> but it was fun for a laguh
Nov 21 00:57:05 <w00t> laugh*
Nov 21 00:58:03 <Robot101> heh oh yeah it msgs you with people's current appearance when you say that, haha
Nov 21 00:59:06 <TrackerDPP> i am new on this channel
Nov 21 00:59:16 <marnanel> lcuk: still around?
Nov 21 00:59:21 <timeless_ideapad> welcome
Nov 21 00:59:37 <TrackerDPP> thanks timeless_ideapad
Nov 21 01:00:07 <marnanel> lcuk: this is what I mean about the backend (it still needs a database; this just spits out ngrams) http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~tthurman/git/predictive.git/
Nov 21 01:00:50 <marnanel> lcuk: left hand column is context, right hand column shows the zero to three characters most likely to follow that context
Nov 21 01:01:04 <TrackerDPP> what is require to create a community ?
Nov 21 01:04:08 <w00t> marnanel: http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/meegotouch-inputmethodengine/blobs/master/words/mimenginewordsinterface.h might be an interesting read
Nov 21 01:04:42 <Termana> morning
Nov 21 01:04:52 <TrackerDPP> Morning Termana !
Nov 21 01:04:54 <timeless_mbp> w00t_: ooh, that used to be in mxr
Nov 21 01:05:01 <timeless_mbp> but then they renamed from dui to mtf
Nov 21 01:05:18 <w00t> timeless_mbp: *nod*
Nov 21 01:05:21 <marnanel> w00t: hm, I wonder how easy it would be to twist that into what we want.  thanks
Nov 21 01:05:27 <w00t> and moved from qt.gitorious.org to meego.g.o
Nov 21 01:05:30 <w00t> marnanel: :-)
Nov 21 01:05:44 <timeless_mbp> w00t: could you look at mxr.meego.com/meego and help me arrange a better list of things to clone?
Nov 21 01:06:15 <w00t> timeless_mbp: certainly, do you have a mail address I can mail corrections to? I have to wander off to shower
Nov 21 01:06:24 <timeless_mbp> timeless@gmail
Nov 21 01:06:27 <w00t> k
Nov 21 01:06:31 <marnanel> w00t: see, the problem I see in this is that it gives you the "n" words it judges most likely to follow the context
Nov 21 01:06:34 <w00t> will try take a look later
Nov 21 01:06:52 <GAN900> I like it when the trackpad just stops working.
Nov 21 01:06:52 <marnanel> w00t: and unless we set n infinitely large we will always have the risk that they'll begin only with a subset of the letters we want
Nov 21 01:07:19 <GAN900> Useless Lenovo, Useless MeeGo.
Nov 21 01:07:25 <w00t> marnanel: I'm sure the IM developers could use feedback, I doubt that API has been played with a lot
Nov 21 01:07:26 <timeless_ideapad> gan900: what makes you feel this way?
Nov 21 01:07:40 <timeless_mbp> (ideapad is using osk.exe)
Nov 21 01:07:44 <w00t> marnanel: see /msg btw (unrelated)
Nov 21 01:07:48 <marnanel> w00t: like maybe "FO", n=2, -> food, foot.. so we see the O, but not any other letter that might actually be more likely than O
Nov 21 01:08:02 <GAN900> timeless_ideapad, I want to throw it through the wall next to me
Nov 21 01:08:23 * w00t heads for the shower
Nov 21 01:08:28 <GAN900> Largely because I can't seem to find a freaking flash drive it'll boot the Ubuntu installer from.
Nov 21 01:08:34 <timeless_mbp> heh
Nov 21 01:08:46 <timeless_mbp> anyone here familiar w/ bzr?
Nov 21 01:08:50 * timeless_mbp wants to shoot bzr
Nov 21 01:09:17 <timeless_mbp> i installed bzr (thanks port), and no thanks to help created ~/.bazaar/bazaar.conf
Nov 21 01:09:43 <timeless_mbp> and i ran whoami (totally unintuitive command)
Nov 21 01:09:56 <timeless_mbp> my bazaar conf has a url thing for my fixes=
Nov 21 01:10:04 <timeless_mbp> and i did a commit, which didn't complain
Nov 21 01:10:12 <timeless_mbp> but i can't find the fixes() bit in my commit
Nov 21 01:19:29 <marnanel> I still can't log into the MeeGO OBS.  I'm sure it's been more than an hour now
Nov 21 01:19:55 <timeless_mbp> interesting...
Nov 21 01:19:59 <timeless_mbp> the screen is multitouch
Nov 21 01:20:11 <timeless_mbp> does multitouch work w/ ideapads on meego?
Nov 21 01:21:46 <TrackerDPP> i go to sleep
Nov 21 01:21:50 <TrackerDPP> see you later
Nov 21 01:22:04 <TrackerDPP> bye all Meego !
Nov 21 01:23:08 <timeless_mbp> ooh, i finally got the "browser vote" thing
Nov 21 01:39:24 <sp3000> telnet to 80 better be an option
Nov 21 01:47:25 <CosmoHill> I'm gonna sleep now, cyas
Nov 21 02:07:59 <GeneralAntilles1> ss2/clear
Nov 21 02:29:34 <timeless_mbp> sp3000: hey
Nov 21 02:29:40 <timeless_mbp> i need to upload ~50-100 screenshots
Nov 21 02:29:47 <timeless_mbp> any suggestions for where they could live?
Nov 21 02:31:48 <sp3000> stress!
Nov 21 02:32:19 <timeless_mbp> this is more like ovi-stress
Nov 21 02:32:22 <timeless_mbp> lots of Pain
Nov 21 02:32:27 <timeless_mbp> no Glory
Nov 21 02:32:45 <timeless_mbp> technically the Ovi stuff was supposed to be Pane, but they overdid it
Nov 21 02:34:14 <sivang> timeless_mbp: ovi mistakes? :)
Nov 21 02:34:24 * sivang now knows how to use nodeload
Nov 21 02:34:28 <sivang> joy!
Nov 21 02:35:02 <timeless_mbp> sivang: did i not give you the ovi suite demo?
Nov 21 02:35:11 * timeless_mbp needs to set up an audiocast for it
Nov 21 02:35:44 <sivang> timeless_mbp: you did but that was just before we parted and went each on our own, you mean the wrong strings that the MS readers exposes?
Nov 21 02:36:08 <sivang> *reader
Nov 21 02:36:25 <sivang> timeless_mbp: but an audio cast could be good, I am not sure I rmember all the details.
Nov 21 02:42:59 <sivang> timeless_mbp: useful to have sunday as a weekend
Nov 21 02:43:48 <timeless_mbp> shouldn't you be sleeping?
Nov 21 02:47:41 <sivang> I should've, but had a small thing I was needing to finish before meego conf, relating to load testing my kv store. Now that I figured nodeload, I'm almost done, and I just need to figure how to tell setuptools to deliver my docs, or rather use debhelper for that.
Nov 21 02:48:18 <sivang> so I got to it only today..
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 21 02:59:58 2010