**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 14 02:59:57 2010 Dec 14 03:05:41 harryhe, export http_proxy=http://proxy.example.com:8080; export RSYNC_PROXY=proxy.example.com:8080 Dec 14 03:05:49 and then rsync Dec 14 03:16:41 howdy Dec 14 03:23:28 Thanks very much Dec 14 03:36:38 hello all. Dec 14 03:37:03 is there a mailing list/irc channel about community events for meego? ... looking at hopefully trying to get a speaker Dec 14 05:05:15 what is happenin in meego channel Dec 14 05:06:59 dunno Dec 14 05:07:33 smoku is quitting because of excess flood... again and again and again... Dec 14 05:07:45 It's a party in my mouth and everyone's invited Dec 14 05:07:48 Except smoku Dec 14 05:08:23 those excess flood messages are flooding the channel excessively :( Dec 14 05:08:33 Stskeeps, ping Dec 14 05:09:31 ban it already Dec 14 05:09:43 how to ban an quit message? Dec 14 05:09:50 jeremiah_, X-Fade, DawnFoster, ping Dec 14 05:09:52 no, the join message Dec 14 05:10:25 lol, I don't see any join messages Dec 14 05:10:42 yeah, it's a good idea to disable them Dec 14 05:10:54 the join messages are flooding the channel excessively too Dec 14 05:11:44 I haven't disabled anything Dec 14 05:11:54 I only get quit messages from smoku, constantly Dec 14 05:12:18 and I'm wondering how can you quit without rejoining first :) Dec 14 05:12:38 yes, you just don't get the join messages Dec 14 05:12:43 I do Dec 14 05:13:24 strange Dec 14 05:13:33 smoku, settle down tiger Dec 14 05:13:40 I get join messages from others Dec 14 05:13:41 * Termana glues smoku to his seat Dec 14 05:13:54 maybe there's some sync problems with servers? Dec 14 05:15:52 Stskeeps, jeremiah_, X-Fade, DawnFoster, unping situation averted Dec 14 05:20:01 smoku uses a XMPP←→IRC gateway and that seems to run haywire at times Dec 14 05:21:34 he should just put an irssi-proxy in the loop, would solve that problem :) Dec 14 05:39:13 morning Dec 14 05:47:23 what should I modify in a kickstart file to make an image for moorstown? Dec 14 05:58:43 kaushik: The meego-handset-ia32-mtf images are using the moorsetown kernel. Dec 14 05:59:26 I want it for netbook though Dec 14 05:59:47 I replaced kernel-netbook by kernel-mrst Dec 14 06:00:13 and added bootloader --timeout=2 --append="ro pci=noearly console=tty1 console=ttyS0 earlyprintk=mrst loglevel=8 s0ix_latency=160" Dec 14 06:00:58 what is @Moorestown support in meego-handset-ia32-mtf kickstart file Dec 14 06:00:58 kaushik: I don't understand what you're trying to do. Are you trying to run the netbook UX on mrst? Dec 14 06:01:17 yes I am trying to run netbook UX on mrst Dec 14 06:05:15 kaushik: "@Moorestown Support" is defined here http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/core/repos/ia32/packages/repodata/29ea6f99ce7a7dd3a78b1cac43d600ceef0efeb7f2c312bf0cec3df1e704459d-comps-1.1.xml and described as "all packages required to boot moorestown platform" Dec 14 06:07:54 alright thanks Dec 14 06:41:15 #Andriod Dec 14 06:42:12 hermes, I think you forgot the /join part on that ;) Or you spammed, but I'll assume the best in you and assume you didn't Dec 14 06:43:31 Termana: I forgot the /join part Dec 14 06:43:36 Pardon me folks Dec 14 06:44:57 Termana: Now that I have got some attention (which I dint intend to have in this way). I was looking at stuff and reading about Meego and I was pretty intriguied by the idea especially by the interface Dec 14 06:45:19 So can anyone tell me over here how can I contribute and be a part of MeeGo in some way Dec 14 06:46:51 hermes: find a component, locate the source and follow http://meego.com/about/contribution-guidelines Dec 14 06:47:15 no paperwork involved Dec 14 06:47:39 http://wiki.meego.com/Contributing_to_MeeGo for the non-code contributions Dec 14 06:47:41 Stskeeps: hmm, i will look it up Dec 14 06:48:12 Stskeeps: I think I would interested in code contributions to MeeGo Dec 14 06:48:50 lists.meego.com for mailing lists, http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Meeting_IRC_Schedule for technical meetings Dec 14 06:50:43 * Jucato just watched/heard a talk given by another Nokia exec, (very) vaguely referring to a "new pattern" (of mobile user interface) that will come with "MeeGo in 2011" ... and left wondering ... "I thought they were working on MeeGo UX too?" Dec 14 06:54:04 Jucato: nokia's been fairly clear that handset ux isn't what they'll ship Dec 14 06:56:22 Stskeeps: that's what I heard as well. in fact I also heard it's going to be proprietary (hello again Hildon!). I guess I still find it a bit sad because the reference UX's (specially handset) aren't even fully done yet (not to mention a missing tablet ux) and yet they seem to be already huddled behind close doors for their own ux. Dec 14 06:57:02 ah well. 2011 isn't far off. time to wait and see. gotta reformat the laptop first for Fedora 13 -_- Dec 14 06:57:23 Jucato: well, i don't know what to put into that the components are still getting developed from nokia's side Dec 14 06:57:30 * Stskeeps doesn't actually know how things will look Dec 14 06:58:42 * Jucato will just cross his fingers :) Dec 14 06:59:16 and handset ux isn't half bad.. i mean, i can make a kitchen appliance with it fairly eeasy Dec 14 07:00:59 it isn't really. just needs polish to be usable. at least that's what I experienced in 1.1. and that's the unoptimized release :) Dec 14 07:01:10 1.1 n900 looks horrible cos of the drivers :) Dec 14 07:01:17 did you try out the 'demo' image? Dec 14 07:01:30 oh not yet Dec 14 07:01:36 ah, you should.. Dec 14 07:01:42 I still need to look for a better card Dec 14 07:01:47 it rocks your perception about what is a slow system and what's not Dec 14 07:02:07 link? same steps to get it installed? Dec 14 07:03:11 I was actually already satisfied that SMS and basic calling worked on 1.1 :) Dec 14 07:03:36 and wifi/wlan I think ... Dec 14 07:05:43 tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php Dec 14 07:07:25 thanks Dec 14 07:07:54 damn I still only have an 8GB class 4 card. need to buy two 4GB class 6 (one for NITdroid :P) Dec 14 07:08:17 i use class 4 eprsonally Dec 14 07:08:21 app launch is a bit slow but ui.. no Dec 14 07:09:15 the 20101109.1 version right? Dec 14 07:09:54 oh right, demo. the other one is mod Dec 14 07:35:33 one question, rsync works when RSYNC_PROXY is set on Host, but failed in virtualbox Dec 14 07:36:30 I am trying to install local OBS in virtualbox, and my host is behind a proxy Dec 14 07:39:47 when I try building a package using osc client I get the error "BuildService API error: can't verify packages due to lack of GPG keys" how can I add the GPG keys? Dec 14 07:39:59 am using community OBS server Dec 14 07:40:12 --nogpgcheck Dec 14 07:40:45 Stskeeps: there is no option --nogpgcheck in osc client Dec 14 07:40:55 in osc build? Dec 14 07:40:59 i guess it's --no-verify Dec 14 07:41:41 --nochecks is there, trying with that Dec 14 07:42:04 no-verify is prolly better Dec 14 07:42:12 Stskeeps: yes trying with that Dec 14 07:43:12 Stskeeps: it works thank you :) Dec 14 08:42:03 gn Dec 14 08:53:01 Stskeeps: online? Dec 14 08:53:12 tyson_: a little busy Dec 14 08:54:07 Stskeeps: OK...work first....thank you.... Dec 14 08:55:12 hello, anybody know obs git? Dec 14 09:02:14 timoph: ping Dec 14 09:03:32 kyb3R: pong Dec 14 09:04:23 Hi All Dec 14 09:04:35 I am looking for pppd rpm for meego Dec 14 09:04:59 I couldnt find any package under repos.meego.com Dec 14 09:05:58 Could someone please tell me where i can find this pppd rpm for meego? Dec 14 09:06:56 Charubala1920, give it some time. wait a bit before asking again. Dec 14 09:07:07 also, good morning :) Dec 14 09:08:09 Sure John. Good Morning :) Dec 14 10:09:27 Termana: pong :-) Dec 14 10:09:33 Belated though it may be. Dec 14 10:57:43 looks like we have a spammer visiting the forums Dec 14 10:58:18 http://forum.meego.com/search.php?searchid=147370 Dec 14 10:58:34 sadly I can't do anything to other places than General :-< Dec 14 11:09:40 that spam got cleaned pretty fast Dec 14 11:56:41 lo Dec 14 12:00:41 have you problem with zypper update today? Dec 14 12:01:07 File './i586/evolution-libs-2.30.1~20100423-10.2.i586.rpm' not found on medium 'http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/netbook/repos/ia32/packages/' ..... Dec 14 12:03:31 just to know if it's a normal issue due of 'daily image' or if it is a problem from me Dec 14 12:03:57 anybody running asterisk on meego? Dec 14 12:04:36 If so: any idea what it would take to let it use the telephony on a say, N900? Dec 14 12:04:45 not me Dec 14 12:04:55 I'm well familiar with Asterisk, not with Meego Dec 14 12:06:48 tzafrir_laptop: if you can compil asterix sources it should working Dec 14 12:07:41 niala, I figure it's possible. There's an existing package for maemo somewhere, IIRC Dec 14 12:07:53 I figure that part is a technical issue Dec 14 12:08:11 But how can I generate calls in the phone? Dec 14 12:08:24 Or answer them? Dec 14 12:08:32 Is it possible? Dec 14 12:10:48 i believe meego use ophono to make calls Dec 14 12:11:39 there are some groups/people that wanna port meego to nokia N-series phones? Dec 14 12:12:18 is possible to load a linux kernel on s60 5th ed phones? Dec 14 12:12:18 ofono sorry Dec 14 12:13:00 MoL0ToV: I don't believe so Dec 14 12:13:53 I mean it's possible, everything is possible, but it's very hard Dec 14 12:14:44 linux is ported to arm devices? Dec 14 12:14:45 wb GeneralAntilles Dec 14 12:15:12 yes Dec 14 12:15:13 hello CosmoHill Dec 14 12:15:17 salut niala Dec 14 12:15:39 under snow here Dec 14 12:15:41 It's usually not the ARM/linux part. it's the surrounding hardware, lack of documentation thereof etc. Dec 14 12:16:35 gsm/umts/gps/webcam drivers? Dec 14 12:16:51 a wizard of reverse enginering is needed :) Dec 14 12:16:52 anyone tried to install meego on the internal eMMC? Dec 14 12:17:04 S60 uses signed bootloader if I'm not mistaken, so there's no way to bypass that unless you can get nokia's signature to sign the linux kernel installation Dec 14 12:17:09 on a separate partition that is Dec 14 12:17:57 guess not Dec 14 12:18:04 * MohammadAG backs up and partitions the eMMC Dec 14 12:18:30 nokia must release the documentation Dec 14 12:18:37 MohammadAG: it can be installed onto the internal memory but it's very hard and not documented Dec 14 12:18:42 you can start that by emailing them :) Dec 14 12:18:46 is a strategic need for nokia Dec 14 12:18:57 but don't undertand i think Dec 14 12:19:10 CosmoHill, but it was done right? Dec 14 12:19:23 Stskeeps said it has been done but only within nokia Dec 14 12:19:39 same partition type? Dec 14 12:19:51 brtfs? Dec 14 12:20:14 I don't know about that part Dec 14 12:22:30 in any case I don't think you'll get far with porting meego to symbian devices MoL0ToV, you may as well save yourself some headache and simply get n900 unless you're willing to brick your symbian powered phone Dec 14 12:43:42 MohammadAG: what sort of kernel work did you do to get host mode work? Dec 14 12:45:14 Morning, all Dec 14 12:46:01 sivang, read credits, patches are by PaulFertser only Dec 14 12:49:42 morning Jaffa Dec 14 12:49:50 MohammadAG: nice Dec 14 13:13:49 Is mic really that sensitive about python versions? Will it only work with 2.6 or will 2.7 work? Dec 14 13:14:05 mic's just generally moody Dec 14 13:14:13 Oh :( Dec 14 13:14:38 Had I known that this was going to be a waste of time, I might have actually decided to debug why it doesn't work on ubuntu 10.10 .. Dec 14 13:23:50 Cool, managed to get it to work with fedora 14 :) Dec 14 13:23:55 greetings again. I know Fedora 14 isn't (yet) supported as an SDK platform. but is it possible to at least use Fedora 13 *x86_64*? Dec 14 13:23:58 Well, it's working .. Dec 14 13:24:03 lol nice timing :) Dec 14 13:24:05 Hah Dec 14 13:24:06 :D Dec 14 13:24:17 Jucato: I'm using packages out of f13 at the moment. Dec 14 13:24:26 Do you plan on creating your own images? Dec 14 13:24:33 wikify please? I'm still struggling whether I should reformat and install F13 i386 on this laptop instead Dec 14 13:24:35 no Dec 14 13:24:45 Ah, well that's what I'm doing. Dec 14 13:24:49 just getting the SDK working (and possibly package) Dec 14 13:24:55 ah Dec 14 13:24:58 So just try following the instructions and use the f13 repo and let me know if you hit any walls Dec 14 13:25:15 on F14? 32 or 64-bit? :) Dec 14 13:25:32 Probably safer to do 32bit, but there are 64bit packages available. Dec 14 13:25:46 :/ Dec 14 13:26:12 Well, try 64bit then :P Dec 14 13:26:23 If you've got the time and bandwidth what have you got to lose ;) Dec 14 13:26:43 lo wazd Dec 14 13:26:50 my sanity? which is in very short supply? Dec 14 13:26:51 :) Dec 14 13:26:57 hello all, hi Stskeeps :) Dec 14 13:27:07 Jucato: just try it, I'm sure you'll be fine ;) Dec 14 13:27:13 And I'll help you if you hit a wall. Dec 14 13:27:42 On a positive note, my 32bit f14 doesn't complain at all, where as on ubuntu I was getting warnings all over the place. Dec 14 13:27:52 It's almost done now too, so we'll see if it actually works or not .. Dec 14 13:28:09 Hey wazd Dec 14 13:28:10 ok. I was hoping I could just install F13 64-bit and just upgrade to F14 when it's already supported. Dec 14 13:30:52 yay, it worked :) Dec 14 13:30:59 I suppose I should update the wikipage. Dec 14 13:31:08 wazd: how's stuff? Dec 14 13:31:34 congrats alterego :) Dec 14 13:34:47 Yes, my first meego madde sysroot :) Dec 14 13:35:23 It's quite refreshing running mic without any errors :/ Dec 14 13:35:28 Stskeeps: awesome, working on qml ui for very popular maemo program :) Dec 14 13:35:35 Stskeeps: gonna release "meegotouch-theme-example-stskeeps" someday when stable version meego is out? :D Dec 14 13:35:38 I just want to be always one step ahead :P Dec 14 13:35:40 Stskeeps: not sure if I can mention it :D Dec 14 13:35:52 Stskeeps: thanks for the pointer to the demo image. works as advertised: more fluid UI, slow to start apps :) Dec 14 13:51:22 No to set this VM/machine to autobuild my images. Dec 14 13:51:26 s/No/Now Dec 14 14:11:44 hello Dec 14 14:12:15 when one might expect some meego-powered smart.phone to appear (don't tell me about n900) ? Dec 14 14:13:16 gour: In 2011. Dec 14 14:13:33 X-Fade: 1q? Dec 14 14:13:48 gour: No idea. Dec 14 14:14:13 http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/21/stephen-elop-first-meego-device-is-a-2011-event/ Dec 14 14:14:15 i'm waitingfor quite some time, but it looks i should buy some android instead Dec 14 14:15:17 Whatever floats your boat. Dec 14 14:15:19 :) Dec 14 14:16:14 n9 won't be cheap and who knows when it might appear here...buying unlocked one is no-deal...n900 unlocked costs ~675€ Dec 14 14:16:49 and locked one is offered via only one provider (not mine :-/ ) Dec 14 14:17:50 so, another 2-yrt plan without meego, it seems :-( Dec 14 14:19:04 well, might as well buy an android then if you are that unsure? Dec 14 14:20:59 gour: Are you sure your area doesn't have any reasonably priced network contracts that let you provide your own phone? Dec 14 14:22:31 jnwi: nope...i use the cheapest provider and there is no n900 available...of course, i can buy unlocked n900, but for 675€ it's too much even for meego :-) Dec 14 14:23:17 i'm also not targetting high-end android, but e.g. galaxy s is more then twice cheaper Dec 14 14:24:33 buy a device on hire purchase in your local store? Dec 14 14:25:07 joppu: we're in croatia if you understand what does it mean ;) Dec 14 14:25:36 meaning that? Dec 14 14:25:43 i'm just afraid that buying android may led me to qt-android (via D) development Dec 14 14:26:24 joppu: there are no sucvh thing...here you can buy some device and you can replace it within 7 or 8 days...not 1 or 3 months Dec 14 14:27:16 that's too bad Dec 14 14:27:20 and that's good if they don't force you to just replace with some other goods instead of providing refund Dec 14 14:27:44 indeed...so unlocked meego is out of question... Dec 14 14:29:00 otoh, i hoped nokia/intel would push meego a little bit harder Dec 14 14:30:10 gour: They're pushing, the thing simply is - it's still not even a year old :) Dec 14 14:30:13 It took a year after announce for Android for devices to show up. Dec 14 14:30:25 a lot of people forget this, it already feels so nifty ;) Dec 14 14:30:35 Things just take time. Dec 14 14:30:51 well, 1.0 was not much more than moblin... Dec 14 14:31:33 X-Fade: true, but android is taking its share...what to say about iOS 4g is already in croatia Dec 14 14:32:02 gour: Some things can't be rushed. Dec 14 14:32:16 Launching a device which sucks is not really an option either ;) Dec 14 14:32:29 X-Fade: true...but they will have hard time penetrating the market if they're latecomers Dec 14 14:33:00 gour: Well, that they are already. So ;) Dec 14 14:33:08 X-Fade: It is not??? Dec 14 14:33:15 X-Fade: Really? Dec 14 14:33:42 one would expect that nokia/intel have resources to be more pushy...but nokia did not released meego phone, but went with symbian Dec 14 14:34:17 gour: When it is ready, you will see a lot more devices. Dec 14 14:34:45 we'll see ;) Dec 14 14:34:47 pushing out something that isn't ready will reflect badly on the companies and damage the products reputation Dec 14 14:34:49 Is €675 an accurate price for an unlocked n900 ? Dec 14 14:34:59 slaine: No. Dec 14 14:35:04 for now, we're going to android...no choice Dec 14 14:35:09 I'd say it depends on the country Dec 14 14:35:09 what is "?"? Dec 14 14:35:13 Seems on the high side Dec 14 14:35:28 RST38h: you mean € ? It's a euro sign Dec 14 14:35:34 slaine: it's simply too much Dec 14 14:35:35 slaine: you can get a brand new one for 450 eur Dec 14 14:35:38 Ah, e675 is too much Dec 14 14:35:52 rauli: that's more like the prices I'd seen Dec 14 14:35:58 i love and use linux, but i'm from croatia :-) Dec 14 14:36:12 US$350 from amazon Dec 14 14:36:16 and today's hardware is meant to be replaced sooner than later Dec 14 14:36:27 they will probably ship to croatia Dec 14 14:36:31 berndhs: they probably do not want to export... Dec 14 14:36:40 why would they care ? Dec 14 14:36:46 if my computers were human, most of them would be in school Dec 14 14:36:57 that's nonsense, hardware should be replaced when it's no longer sufficient. You just want something new and shinny. Dec 14 14:37:03 berndhs: you can check shipping policy Dec 14 14:37:20 guests...bbl Dec 14 14:37:34 you can check, I know they will ship here :) Dec 14 14:37:42 zing Dec 14 14:38:06 lbt did tyou see my last email about the Apps Packages Surrounds discussion at meego-community? Dec 14 14:38:17 slaine: people like shiny things, that is why you get people buying phone contracts with TVs and xboxs instead of doing maths and finding out they are paying to much Dec 14 14:38:44 CosmoHill, it beats saving for a year if you can has it NOW Dec 14 14:38:55 lbt: sent last Thursday Dec 14 14:39:04 qgil: The whole surrounds thing should not be a visible thing for end-users anyway. Dec 14 14:39:22 X-Fade: my point exactly, without questioning the name itself :) Dec 14 14:39:22 the entire mobile phone industry is based on shinyness Dec 14 14:39:27 qgil: They just see Extras, which can or can not include it. Dec 14 14:39:38 slaine: hmm true, I can't say I've ever really considered a contract so I've not put much thought into it Dec 14 14:39:48 qgil: But really, people discuss too much and do too little :) Dec 14 14:39:48 "Extras"? You mean "Apps"? X-Fade Dec 14 14:40:08 qgil: No, Extras. :) Wallpapers are not apps. Dec 14 14:40:21 X-Fade: well, lbt started a discussion to have an agreement and we are quite there Dec 14 14:40:24 berndhs: "I see you 5.2MP camera phone and I raise you my *5.3* MP phone" Dec 14 14:40:32 qgil: Themes are not Apps, ringtones are not apps. Dec 14 14:40:43 qgil: X-Fade: whats the big issue with the name? can't you have several names that go to the same site ? Dec 14 14:41:56 qgil: If it was me, it would be CoolStuff[tm] ;) Dec 14 14:42:13 that sounds like a good category Dec 14 14:42:18 X-Fade: if a wallpaper and a ringtone is something found in a catalog that can be downladed and installed from a user point of view - have no doubt that for those users the difference is irrelevant Dec 14 14:42:41 ShinyAdditions Dec 14 14:42:54 qgil: yes, but then it is still weird to call it Apps. Dec 14 14:43:08 X-Fade: but anyway, lbt opened a bug and a related thread at meego-community to discuss and decide this - I have been following his process :) Dec 14 14:43:24 X-Fade: But if they're in Apps you can call them "apps" and then that helps in the war of "apps" numbers Dec 14 14:43:50 Jaffa: Yeah, sure. We can lie too. Dec 14 14:44:06 X-Fade: the point of discussionm is a and a URL, all the rest is pure semantics Dec 14 14:45:14 <X-Fade> qgil: Yeah. I know. We should just pick something which makes more sense. Dec 14 14:45:50 <X-Fade> qgil: But let other people fight over it, I'll just make it work instead of discussing the name :D Dec 14 14:46:58 <qgil> X-Fade: I can't do the work, so let me at least help at finding the right name http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11053#c4 Dec 14 14:47:25 <X-Fade> qgil: Hehe, you should be enjoying a holiday IIRC ;) Dec 14 14:47:51 <qgil> X-Fade: starting next week ;:) Dec 14 14:48:00 <X-Fade> Ach so. Dec 14 14:48:06 <qgil> genau Dec 14 14:48:40 * GAN900 , too, prefers "Extras". Dec 14 14:49:05 <GAN900> Apps is rather generic. Dec 14 14:50:55 <joppu> themes should probably have their own category Dec 14 14:51:14 <alterego> qgil, GAN900, is there still an N900 device queue? I keep getting held back because I can't use my personal phone as a dev device all the time :/ Dec 14 14:51:24 <X-Fade> joppu: But you can download them through the same website and client. Dec 14 14:51:36 <joppu> not sure if ringtones and wallpapers would be doable due to copyrights Dec 14 14:51:36 <alterego> In an ideal world, I wouldn't use my phone as a dev device at all ^.^ Dec 14 14:51:41 <qgil> alterego: send me an email explaining the problem, thanks Dec 14 14:51:46 <GAN900> joppu, agreed. That was a mistake with our categorization efforts. Dec 14 14:51:50 <alterego> qgil, okay, cheers. Dec 14 14:52:01 <lardman> alterego: did you flash the new pvr driver image ok? Dec 14 14:52:12 <X-Fade> GAN900: Well if categories made sense and the app was good, you would not see them ;) Dec 14 14:52:27 <alterego> lardman: about to do it. Dec 14 14:52:34 <X-Fade> GAN900: But if you always need to pick 'All' as category, then yeah. Dec 14 14:52:37 <lardman> let me know how you get on Dec 14 14:52:43 <alterego> lardman: my daily yesterday didn't uboot boot :/ Dec 14 14:52:54 <lardman> hmm, not ideal Dec 14 14:52:54 <X-Fade> joppu: Creative Commons? Dec 14 14:53:41 <joppu> didn't previous maemo releases have arbitrary categories that could be just defined? Dec 14 14:54:10 <X-Fade> joppu: Yeah, that was a mistake too ;) Dec 14 14:54:14 <joppu> :D Dec 14 14:54:41 <X-Fade> But categories are always limiting. Dec 14 14:55:14 <GAN900> X-Fade, oh, indeed. Dec 14 14:56:37 <lardman> didn't we talk about using tags in the dim and distant past rather than the section? Dec 14 14:56:54 <X-Fade> lardman: Yeah, but that doesn't work like you'd expect. Dec 14 14:57:02 <lardman> oh, fair enough Dec 14 14:57:08 <X-Fade> lardman: Tags are a great way to descibe an app for instance. Dec 14 14:57:22 <X-Fade> But using it reverse, for lookup is a pain. Dec 14 14:57:36 <lardman> if the user doesn't know what they want you mean Dec 14 14:58:42 <leinir> if you go with user-assigned tags, please consider using a broad folksonomy rather than a narrow one... Dec 14 14:59:21 <X-Fade> lardman: http://screenshots.debian.net/package/apachetop Dec 14 14:59:33 <X-Fade> lardman: Check the tags describing apachetop here. Dec 14 14:59:46 <X-Fade> lardman: Now consider casual browsing based on tags. Dec 14 15:00:44 <lardman> well apart from the fact one doesn't browse for apache, yeah they aren't very useful Dec 14 15:01:01 <lardman> s/apache/apachetop Dec 14 15:01:06 <X-Fade> lardman: Well this started with an a ;) Dec 14 15:01:16 <lardman> i.e. I can't see someone browsing for it unless they know what it is already Dec 14 15:01:22 <lardman> :) Dec 14 15:01:49 <lardman> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/3dchess is perhaps more like it Dec 14 15:02:02 <lardman> game, board, chess, etc Dec 14 15:02:20 <Jaffa> joppu: Someone can make their own tune and upload it as a ringtone, just like someone can write an app. Dec 14 15:02:23 <lardman> but I accept your argument, you could search the package descriptions to get this data so it makes no odds Dec 14 15:02:43 <X-Fade> lardman: You are already looking for something really specific when you look for a board game. Dec 14 15:04:54 <joppu> Jaffa: yeah, or copy a licensed image off google and package it Dec 14 15:04:57 <joppu> oh well Dec 14 15:07:34 <Linex> any meego phone yet ? Can't wait to get rid of my n97. Dec 14 15:08:24 <CosmoHill> Linex: nope Dec 14 15:08:34 <CosmoHill> something should be coming out next year Dec 14 15:08:54 <Linex> in Q1 ? Dec 14 15:09:15 <CosmoHill> Linex: http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/21/stephen-elop-first-meego-device-is-a-2011-event/ Dec 14 15:09:34 <Linex> Hope samsung join the meego bandwagon, they make good phones, their screens are really nice. Dec 14 15:10:38 <X-Fade> lardman: fwiw, Android uses these categories: http://market.android.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=113475 Dec 14 15:13:24 <lardman> hmm, obviously not many people doing sciency stuff with Android then ;) Dec 14 15:16:36 <alterego> lardman: just managed to boot my daily with new sgx fine. Dec 14 15:16:39 <lardman> seems odd to have a Demo category unless you can select more than one (and it seems to indicate you can't) Dec 14 15:16:52 <lardman> alterego: cool, I'll build one when I get home Dec 14 15:17:02 <alterego> Seems using a fedora 14 vm has cured all my image creator woes Dec 14 15:17:39 <alterego> bbiab Dec 14 15:19:18 <lardman> X-Fade: did you see an equivalent for the iPhone? I see it has "Explicit" :) Dec 14 15:20:54 <X-Fade> lardman: I don't seem to have enough google foo to find an official list for iPhone. Dec 14 15:21:09 <lardman> nah nor me, I'm still looking for something other than a screenshot Dec 14 15:23:38 <jespada_> Hi, I need to set up a local meego mirror, what would be the best way, rsync? Dec 14 15:26:40 <lardman> X-Fade: http://blog.mobclix.com/2009/09/23/app-store-by-the-numbers-category-breakdown/ Dec 14 15:27:22 <lardman> in fact this also shows subcategories in the drop down: http://www.mobclix.com/appstore/1/ Dec 14 15:29:00 <X-Fade> lardman: But only for games it seems :) Dec 14 15:29:14 <lardman> perhaps that's all there is? Dec 14 15:29:26 <lardman> I'll have a look on my wife's iPod Touch when I get home Dec 14 15:29:46 <X-Fade> But I think that if we compare this list and the android one, we can come up with something which is quite sensible. Dec 14 15:30:03 <X-Fade> And doesn't contain things like 'X11' or 'python'. Dec 14 15:30:17 <lardman> Though we'll probably want to add some more serious categories I'd guess, or perhaps not Dec 14 15:30:47 <lardman> Are subcategories allowed? Programming > Python Dec 14 15:30:59 <X-Fade> lardman: http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Guidelines#Group_Tag Dec 14 15:31:05 <X-Fade> This is what we have now. Dec 14 15:31:33 <X-Fade> Subcategories can be used, as long as we don't make huge trees :) Dec 14 15:32:28 <X-Fade> And if you look at that list, you can see we need to come up with a list based on _user_ needs instead of a list created by developers :) Dec 14 15:32:34 <lardman> so more categories to be added below Applications then if we wish to match the iPhone/Android level of granularity for user apps Dec 14 15:32:58 <X-Fade> No way you want to have 400 i18n languages listed as categories etc. Dec 14 15:33:28 <lardman> well the user won't want to see any of the System stuff really Dec 14 15:34:03 <X-Fade> So the App can decide to not show certain groups. Dec 14 15:36:35 <X-Fade> A clear split between user visible things and platform developers might be a good idea. Dec 14 15:47:06 <mwichmann> does anyone know if the roadmap page is being updated? (http://meego.com/developers/meego-roadmap) Dec 14 15:47:14 <mwichmann> it stops at 1.1, which is "in the past" Dec 14 15:48:29 <Stskeeps> mwichmann: ah, i forgot we had a roadmap for a second there Dec 14 15:48:52 <Stskeeps> i thought it was around the corner some months back :) Dec 14 15:50:03 <mwichmann> always dangerous to publish things, then silly people like me want them kept up to date :) Dec 14 15:50:20 <Stskeeps> my primary information source is the wiki and featurezilla :P Dec 14 15:51:25 <mwichmann> sure, it works, I'm just looking for a page to point "external" folks to in response to a question Dec 14 15:51:30 <Stskeeps> :nod: Dec 14 15:51:44 <Stskeeps> i don't know where the roadmap is, personally :P Dec 14 15:51:59 <Stskeeps> think it's not finished Dec 14 15:58:19 <Myrtti> Stskeeps: your slip is showing ;-) Dec 14 15:58:28 <Stskeeps> eep Dec 14 16:04:03 <alterego> Is anyone looking into some kind of compatibility layer for android drivers? I'm thinking to reduce the pressure on vendors, if we had generic wrappers that could proxy meego apis to their andoid counter parts. Dec 14 16:05:11 <Stskeeps> well, the problem is that they're using power management that is unsuitable for linux kernel, i think.. Dec 14 16:05:18 <alterego> tbh, I don't know anything about Android OS layers, but I'm guessing hardware control eventually boils down to a low level kernel or userspace that could be cross compiled for meego Dec 14 16:05:28 <alterego> Oh, m'kay Dec 14 16:05:42 <alterego> Still, may be of benifit? Dec 14 16:06:23 <Stskeeps> i'm more interested in having android apps render onto meego ;) Dec 14 16:06:30 <alterego> Even if we're not talking about a drop in replacement for android devices, I'd imagine vendors, like Nokia do, use their own standard hardware Dec 14 16:06:35 <Stskeeps> but it's comparable to the 'hildon' issue Dec 14 16:06:39 <berndhs> what android things, other than apps, would you want to run on meego ? Dec 14 16:07:04 <Stskeeps> berndhs: pretty much nothing Dec 14 16:07:11 <alterego> berndhs: I'm talking about easing vendor adoption of the platform. Dec 14 16:07:27 <alterego> Not running Android apps :P Dec 14 16:07:34 <berndhs> right,alterego: so what would they want to run ? same question for them Dec 14 16:07:52 <alterego> My idea is for making it easier for them to adapt meego for their devices :P Dec 14 16:08:14 <alterego> Presumably MeeGo, hence the idea :P Dec 14 16:08:27 <berndhs> MeeGo on top of Android ? Dec 14 16:08:41 <berndhs> or just meego on some hardware that now uses android Dec 14 16:09:05 <alterego> No, MeeGo wrappers for low level android hardware drivers. Presumably all Linux kernel drivers but with some other interface. Dec 14 16:09:14 * javispedro shudders Dec 14 16:09:19 <slaine> You can't run an OS ontop of another os without virtualization and I doubt any handset vendors are ready for that yet Dec 14 16:09:40 <Stskeeps> alterego: i think generally android kernels should work, i think.. Dec 14 16:09:42 <alterego> I think you're all confusing what I'm saying :P Dec 14 16:09:46 <berndhs> slaine: sure, its nonsense for a phone Dec 14 16:10:14 <alterego> Stskeeps: right good, but what about Qt backends and such. Dec 14 16:10:14 <javispedro> I think the entire power saving models are different Dec 14 16:10:20 <berndhs> alterego: are there any hardware bits used by android devices that are special? I though its all pretty plain stuff Dec 14 16:10:24 <Stskeeps> alterego: well, that's up to the hw adaptator anyway Dec 14 16:10:31 <slaine> alterego: afaik, Stskeeps is pretty much right on there, They have added lots of hooks for pm and other areas that where not accepted in the upstream kernel and they have little interest in having the upstream kernel support android Dec 14 16:10:33 <alterego> In the absense of both platforms using the same kernel interfaces. Dec 14 16:10:55 <slaine> they've the resources to manage their own fork of linux and so are happy to do that if it means they keep controling their product Dec 14 16:11:19 <alterego> Fair points, now we're all on the same page :P Dec 14 16:12:10 <alterego> Still, even without pm, and I'm guessing here, maybe a few wrappers is still a good idea. Dec 14 16:12:13 <slaine> The onus is on the hardware provider to develop their drivers for upstream and not solely on the android fork Dec 14 16:12:14 <berndhs> alterego: so teh thing to do would be to grab the shiniest android device and see what doesnt work with meego Dec 14 16:12:32 <alterego> But I don't know how android hardware exposes through the kernel and where it differs for us. Dec 14 16:12:55 <alterego> slaine: exactly Dec 14 16:13:05 <berndhs> there isn't anything special about android hardware, or is there ? Dec 14 16:13:19 <slaine> berndhs: not particularly Dec 14 16:13:29 <slaine> though I don't know what I'm talking about ;) Dec 14 16:13:33 <ali1234> there is nothing special about the hardware, however the drivers are written in a rather ... bad way Dec 14 16:13:36 <alterego> berndhs: I'd imagine it's all just silly little number ranges and stuff. Dec 14 16:13:50 <slaine> alterego: you're making assumptions Dec 14 16:13:54 <alterego> Indeed Dec 14 16:14:03 <alterego> I am I've already said that :P Dec 14 16:14:11 <berndhs> my assumption is the cheapest stuff they can get away with :) Dec 14 16:14:15 <javispedro> alterego: android implements most of power saving by suspend()ing, OS usually suspends after idle timeout, applications/other drivers can prevent suspension by special interface Dec 14 16:14:21 <ali1234> the kernel part of most android "drivers" simple exports a mmap device which maps the hardware io memory to userspace, then the actual driver code is in a userspace application Dec 14 16:14:29 <slaine> If it was that trivial there'd already be a HAL for android so they they could use upstream kernels whenever they wanted Dec 14 16:14:38 <smoku> alterego, could you give an "for instance" of the drivers you want to ease porting? Dec 14 16:14:49 <Stskeeps> smoku: irc gateway fixed? :P Dec 14 16:14:59 <alterego> smoku: okay, how about cellmo and accel :) Dec 14 16:15:05 <alterego> They don't use ofono Dec 14 16:15:16 <Stskeeps> those you have to write ofono drivers for anyway Dec 14 16:15:24 <alterego> So what about an ofono backend for whatever android uses? Dec 14 16:15:53 <ali1234> android uses RIL, it is rewritten for each and every device, it is a userspace library Dec 14 16:16:00 <smoku> alterego, I ported accelerometer drivers for two devices and there wasn't anything special about it. just fixing the API calls that got changed from older kernel versions Dec 14 16:16:15 <ali1234> there is RIL for ofono, but not ofono for RIL... Dec 14 16:16:20 <alterego> The drive for this is purely to make it easier for vendors to adapt meego, then hopefully they'll clean up their act and get stuff upstreamed properly. Dec 14 16:16:32 <smoku> alterego, gsm modem is usually just serial port, so there is nothing special about it too Dec 14 16:16:48 <slaine> alterego, they'd have no reason to as you'd have done the adaptation work for them Dec 14 16:16:53 <alterego> ali1234: well, that's at least some of it answered then :) Dec 14 16:17:07 <slaine> effectively cementing the android api as the api to use for kernel drivers Dec 14 16:17:08 <ali1234> plus they is nothing to upstream because all the actual useful code is in closed userspace binaries Dec 14 16:17:26 <smoku> alterego, most of the google GPIO stuff was included in the latest kernels, so it's just a matter of s/gpio_*/.../ calls to the new names and including linux/gpio.h instead mach/gpio.h Dec 14 16:17:35 <alterego> right, like bme, isi .... Dec 14 16:18:35 <alterego> Anyway, original question is kind of satisfied, yes, someone has done something along the lines of what I was thinking :) Dec 14 16:18:43 <smoku> alterego, there are some custom drivers depending on google added hardware clocks and timers. but these are not critical, and even though most of these google stuff is available in staging drivers section Dec 14 16:18:46 <berndhs> I'm not sure why it would be the drivers that are slowing anyone down using meego Dec 14 16:18:57 <ali1234> it isn't Dec 14 16:19:08 <ali1234> drivers are only a problem for hobbyists Dec 14 16:19:21 <smoku> Stskeeps, not really. but I'm looking on replacing this python crap with some modern libpurple stuff :) Dec 14 16:19:43 <ali1234> if you order 10 million chips they'll make you a driver for any OS you want... Dec 14 16:19:44 <Macer> smoku: awesome! python ftl Dec 14 16:19:53 <Macer> :) Dec 14 16:20:45 <Macer> any timeline on when meego might be usable on an n900? Dec 14 16:20:56 <alterego> now! Dec 14 16:21:08 <alterego> But that depends on your definition of usable. Dec 14 16:21:31 <Macer> end user usable with all the hardware working ;) Dec 14 16:21:42 <Jartza> never? Dec 14 16:21:47 <alterego> this time next year Dec 14 16:22:04 <Macer> wow. by next year the n900 will be obsolete Dec 14 16:22:19 <alterego> It's not already? Dec 14 16:22:21 <berndhs> Macer: yeah and you'll be able to get it real cheap Dec 14 16:22:25 <alterego> jk :P Dec 14 16:22:30 <Macer> no. not yet. :) Dec 14 16:22:42 <Macer> still has a good 4 months left Dec 14 16:22:49 <berndhs> and if you invest wisely now, you can afford it a year from now Dec 14 16:22:50 <Macer> i know it is my last nokia tho heh Dec 14 16:23:02 <alterego> Oh well Dec 14 16:23:17 <Macer> unless they stick by something non-symbian and maemo derived Dec 14 16:23:28 <alterego> "last Nokia" how can people make these massive wall statements? Dec 14 16:23:47 <alterego> Are you including MeeGo? Dec 14 16:24:12 <alterego> 2011 Q1 is supposed to be first MeeGo Nokia device iirc Dec 14 16:24:13 <Macer> it has yet to be seen how well meego will be supported Dec 14 16:24:39 <Macer> if it follows the maemo trend then it will be abandoned every other year Dec 14 16:24:44 <Macer> :) Dec 14 16:25:08 <alterego> That's more of a device perspective, not platform :P Dec 14 16:25:22 <Macer> maybe. Dec 14 16:25:24 <alterego> It's been 6 years for maemo to get abandoned. Dec 14 16:25:30 <Stskeeps> meh, keeping meego devices on lifesupport should be trivial with meego Dec 14 16:25:34 <Stskeeps> add another hardware adaptation.. Dec 14 16:25:35 <Stskeeps> :P Dec 14 16:25:49 <alterego> Stskeeps: you'd hope it'd already be there ;) Dec 14 16:26:02 <Macer> Stskeeps: heh. maybe as well. nokia has a bad habit of cutting the cord Dec 14 16:26:07 <Macer> bbl Dec 14 16:26:22 <alterego> If Nokia walks the walk with the next device, then I'll breathe a sigh of relief .. Dec 14 16:26:46 <Stskeeps> alterego: well yes Dec 14 16:27:07 <Stskeeps> alterego: but there's a significant economic benefit in not having to maintain the entire OS for a device, just the hw adaptation Dec 14 16:27:11 <Stskeeps> :P Dec 14 16:27:12 <alterego> And if they can continue dishout out bme, sgx and that to the closed builders, well, I'll live with that. Dec 14 16:27:38 <alterego> dishing ... Dec 14 16:28:27 <alterego> Any news on gps? Dec 14 16:28:41 <alterego> Oh and is data working yet? Dec 14 16:29:35 <Stskeeps> data should work, just no ui for it Dec 14 16:29:47 <alterego> splended Dec 14 16:29:50 <Stskeeps> and gps is difficult Dec 14 16:30:36 * alterego sighs Dec 14 16:30:47 <alterego> How difficult? Dec 14 16:31:26 <Stskeeps> well Dec 14 16:31:38 <Stskeeps> it talks to the gps through the modem, which is the first challenge Dec 14 16:31:38 <Stskeeps> :P Dec 14 16:32:23 <alterego> Presumably Nokia haven't voiced an opinion? We have a user space app that can talk directly to it Dec 14 16:32:44 <alterego> A lot of the proto is also reverse engineered. Dec 14 16:32:51 <Stskeeps> agps is what's needed Dec 14 16:32:57 <alterego> Ah, good point. Dec 14 16:33:47 <Stskeeps> do keep in mind we have nokians on the team so if we aren't doing something right away, it's cos it's technically difficult :P Dec 14 16:34:25 <alterego> Hrm Dec 14 16:34:41 <alterego> Or too much grunt worth to be bothered :P Dec 14 16:34:46 <Stskeeps> nah Dec 14 16:35:19 <Stskeeps> the 'best' thing i can see right now is bad, cos we'd just write liblocation (closed source) into a geoclue wrapper Dec 14 16:35:39 <Stskeeps> so it's one more closed bits and we're not exactly fans of those Dec 14 16:36:02 <alterego> Agreed, but it'd be nice to just have something working tbh .. Dec 14 16:36:06 <Stskeeps> yeah, agreed Dec 14 16:36:32 <alterego> Esp. since my major app is a navigation app :) Dec 14 16:36:32 * Stskeeps ponders Dec 14 16:36:46 <Stskeeps> well, if you want, check out how location is tied together in m5 and what libs it uses Dec 14 16:36:59 <alterego> okay, I'll do that. Dec 14 16:37:38 <alterego> Nothing interesting outside of glib/gobject Dec 14 16:37:56 <Stskeeps> libisi and such is the interesting parts Dec 14 16:37:59 <alterego> I think it accesses directly through ceelmo Dec 14 16:38:08 <alterego> No, not through isi .. Dec 14 16:38:21 <javispedro> didn't luke-jr manage to get most of the data sent via cellmo? Dec 14 16:38:32 <Stskeeps> javispedro: yes, but not agps.. Dec 14 16:38:51 <javispedro> hm Dec 14 16:39:05 <javispedro> Stskeeps: will Nokia approve getting data from their agps server with a RE'd client? Dec 14 16:39:09 <alterego> I still can't believe our chip isn't documented :D Dec 14 16:39:43 <alterego> javispedro: we can use a google source if we want .. Dec 14 16:39:55 <alterego> supl.nokia.com is confurable. afiar Dec 14 16:40:17 <javispedro> it is, I have no idea about the protocol but it must be partially standarized somewhere Dec 14 16:40:29 <lardman> I thought the Google server had stopped accepting requests from the N900...? Dec 14 16:40:32 <alterego> its just injecting the raw alamanac Dec 14 16:40:53 <alterego> trivial I'm sure we can find a public source. Dec 14 16:41:22 <alterego> I could hook my garmin handheld to an always on pc and forward it to my server if worst comes to it :) Dec 14 16:41:50 <javispedro> it's not a bad idea actually =) Dec 14 16:43:33 <alterego> Would only work for a chunk of europe centered around the uk though :P Dec 14 16:43:55 <pixelgeek> alterego: just the important bits then :) Dec 14 16:43:58 <alterego> If we could do this though, dgps may become an option :) Dec 14 16:45:03 <javispedro> if it's just almanac your garmin is able to export the entire message Dec 14 16:46:05 <alterego> Yeah, that proto was reversed for this garmin years ago Dec 14 16:46:28 <alterego> By some clever italian prof who does gps stuff for a living. Dec 14 16:46:45 <javispedro> huh? Dec 14 16:46:48 <javispedro> it is documented Dec 14 16:46:51 <javispedro> by garmin Dec 14 16:47:11 <alterego> groovy Dec 14 16:47:33 <alterego> My knowledge of this is very old, I just remember reading it Dec 14 16:47:44 <alterego> Probably 5 years ago Dec 14 16:47:59 <javispedro> in the old days they were much more friendly =) Dec 14 16:48:01 <alterego> (it's an old garmin 12XL) Dec 14 16:48:02 <javispedro> either way, going OT. Dec 14 16:48:15 <alterego> :) Dec 14 16:48:44 <alterego> Wouldn't it be just magical if we could just cat the almanac :) Dec 14 16:48:53 <alterego> But I imagine there is a command Dec 14 16:48:58 <lardman> I'm more concerned about PM than the GPS really for a day to day image Dec 14 16:49:15 <alterego> lardman: sure, but that is being worked, this isn't Dec 14 16:49:50 <lardman> I do hope the next device comes with a chipset that has decent stand-alone performance Dec 14 16:50:34 <javispedro> lardman: I mostly expect it to be the same hw as the pre2 Dec 14 16:50:41 <javispedro> s/hw/chipset Dec 14 16:50:48 <lardman> what's the pre2? Dec 14 16:51:06 <alterego> palm pre? Dec 14 16:51:09 <javispedro> omap3630 1ghz, 512MiB RAM Dec 14 16:51:29 <lardman> and the gps chipset? ;) Dec 14 16:52:16 <javispedro> same as prev one :P Dec 14 16:52:21 <javispedro> (aka same as n900) Dec 14 16:52:22 <lardman> what's the problem with open sourcing the gpsdriver? NDA with Ti or something Nokia-related? Dec 14 16:52:29 <lardman> javispedro: oh dear Dec 14 16:54:33 <javispedro> lardman: actually MSM6801A (Qualcomm), sorry =) Dec 14 16:54:56 <Jaffa> lardman: With a slightly larger screen (so that'd reduce throughput slightly). I believe 854x480 litters the MTF test cases. Dec 14 16:55:01 <javispedro> lardman: but dunno if that will be the case, as I was thinking you were mentioning general performance only Dec 14 16:57:06 <lardman> Jaffa: what's MTF Dec 14 16:57:19 <alterego> meego touch framework Dec 14 16:57:24 * lardman is feeling lost in acronyms Dec 14 16:57:28 <lardman> ah ok Dec 14 16:57:37 <javispedro> you should drop that one acronym, it always freaks me out :) Dec 14 16:57:53 <alterego> Heh deja vu Dec 14 16:58:02 <lardman> bbiab, heading to the bar for someone's graduation do Dec 14 16:58:42 <alterego> have fun Dec 14 17:00:40 <berndhs> isnt MTF the thing that is not quite released, but scheduled to be deprecated ? Dec 14 17:00:51 <aard_> yep. Dec 14 17:04:10 <sradhakrishna> am trying to build RFS image using http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation Dec 14 17:04:16 <slonopotamus_> "scheduled to be deprecated" - i like that Dec 14 17:04:23 <sradhakrishna> am using ubuntu 10.10. Dec 14 17:04:49 <Stskeeps> RFS Dec 14 17:04:49 <Stskeeps> > Dec 14 17:04:51 <Stskeeps> ? Dec 14 17:05:05 <sradhakrishna> root file system Dec 14 17:05:18 <sradhakrishna> however, when i add the repos in synaptic, Dec 14 17:05:34 <sradhakrishna> and do a sudo apt-get update Dec 14 17:06:00 <sradhakrishna> it fails to get the epos. Dec 14 17:07:07 <sradhakrishna> this is what synaptic throws up as an error: Failed to fetch http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/tools/repos/ubuntu/10.10/Release Unable to find expected entry Sources in Meta-index file (malformed Release file?) Dec 14 17:28:17 <lardman> beer + nearly 5.30, not sure much more work will get done today Dec 14 17:29:57 <CosmoHill> the amount of work will go up then suddenly drop as you pass the magical point of between 1 and 1/2 and 1 and 2/3s of a drink Dec 14 17:30:16 <lardman> no, I think that;'s skill at pool isn't it? ;) Dec 14 17:30:45 <CosmoHill> search on youtube, "mitchell and webb slightly drunk" Dec 14 17:33:56 <berndhs> pool isn't important when you're sober. after 3 beers its cosmic Dec 14 17:36:13 * lardman heads home, bb online l Dec 14 17:36:38 * timeless_mbp looks around Dec 14 17:36:43 <andre__> can I still assume that MeeGoConf videos of the last conf day will get published on video.linuxfoundation.org? Haven't seen anything from Wednesday yet... Dec 14 17:36:45 <timeless_mbp> can someone please point me to MeeGo IT? Dec 14 17:36:45 * andre__ 'd like to review the nonsense that he talked Dec 14 17:37:06 <timeless_mbp> andre__ =~ s/talked/said|spoke/ Dec 14 17:37:21 <andre__> uh, true :) Dec 14 17:38:02 <timeless_mbp> can you help me? :) Dec 14 17:38:19 <andre__> heh. no idea, sorry :) Dec 14 17:38:38 <berndhs> timeless_mbp: no, your insurance says its too late, doctors forced to give up Dec 14 17:38:58 <timeless_mbp> ? Dec 14 17:39:08 <berndhs> they cant help you Dec 14 17:39:36 * timeless_mbp looks for /ignore Dec 14 18:05:13 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster1: that'll be a no, the bureaucracy seems worse than the polish post office :) Dec 14 18:05:34 <DawnFoster1> Stskeeps: ha! Dec 14 18:08:40 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster1: i think we need a guideline on how to create new channels, ie, remember to register the place :P Dec 14 18:08:59 <DawnFoster1> It should be in the IRC guidelines Dec 14 18:09:07 <DawnFoster1> http://wiki.meego.com/IRC_guidelines Dec 14 18:09:17 * Stskeeps looks Dec 14 18:09:20 <DawnFoster1> Stskeeps: by "should be" I mean I already added it :) Dec 14 18:09:32 <DawnFoster1> Stskeeps: feel free to add any steps I missed Dec 14 18:09:59 <Stskeeps> nop, seems correct Dec 14 18:10:05 <DawnFoster1> cool, thanks Dec 14 18:10:20 <DawnFoster1> now, getting people to follow it is a different challenge ... Dec 14 18:10:57 <Stskeeps> well, if we have a guide for working in the meego way, that would be a good part of it :P Dec 14 18:11:51 <Stskeeps> which reminds me i should spend some time on alice coding.. Dec 14 18:12:08 * Stskeeps goes hacking Dec 14 19:29:19 <CosmoHill> I wonder, will meego phones be locked to network operators? Dec 14 19:30:57 <Stskeeps> some, i guess Dec 14 19:31:02 <MohammadAG> Probably Harmattan more than MeeGo Dec 14 19:31:19 <MohammadAG> I'm assuming the initrd image has no bme -> no charging? Dec 14 19:31:26 <Stskeeps> MohammadAG: pretty much yeah Dec 14 19:31:31 <CosmoHill> if it's linux, couldn't you just change it or flash is to it's unlocked? Dec 14 19:31:36 <MohammadAG> explains the IO error then... Dec 14 19:32:05 <MohammadAG> Stskeeps, other than bme_rx51, is anything else needed? Dec 14 19:32:20 <Stskeeps> dsme, libcal.. Dec 14 19:40:40 <Alison_Chaiken> Stskeeps and CosmoHill, since MeeGo is open source, carriers are free to offer locked phones using it. We would have no way of stopping them. Dec 14 19:40:57 <Stskeeps> yeah, well, it's just another business model Dec 14 19:41:15 <Stskeeps> freedom is freedom for everyone, including carriers :) Dec 14 19:41:53 <RST38h> Carriers' and users' definitions of "freedom" are mutually exclusive Dec 14 19:42:04 <RST38h> Guess which definition will become more widespread. Dec 14 19:42:20 <CosmoHill> If I were to get a MeeGo phone, as long as I didn't want to change carriers within a year I'd be fine Dec 14 19:43:00 <CosmoHill> but I've been told that non-carrier phones come with all the features since some carriers may want to remove some features Dec 14 19:43:21 <Alison_Chaiken> I can't believe that there won't be locked MeeGo phones. Whether there will be unlocked ones in every market is a better question. I paid extra to have my phones unlocked. Dec 14 19:44:00 <Alison_Chaiken> Or CosmoHill, carriers may add annoying skins, as they have done with Android, not to mention any names. Dec 14 19:44:36 <RST38h> As long as there will be *unlocked* Meego phones, I am happy though :) Dec 14 19:45:06 <CosmoHill> In the UK you pay to get your phone unlocked within a year, after a year they're legally required to unlock it for you for free Dec 14 19:45:48 <CosmoHill> In china on the other hand you're not allowed to sell locked phones Dec 14 19:45:49 <ali1234> that's the sim lock though Dec 14 19:46:07 <ali1234> after a year they have to unlock it for use on other networks, nothing more Dec 14 19:46:17 <lbt> unlocked != bootloader allows unsigned kernel Dec 14 19:46:28 <ali1234> exactly Dec 14 19:49:51 <CosmoHill> hmm Dec 14 20:10:33 <Stskeeps> kyb3R: meetbot/#meego-meeting is free for use in case you want to use it for mnf meeting Dec 14 20:10:39 <Stskeeps> ~haveameegomeeting Dec 14 20:10:40 <infobot> [haveameegomeeting] book at http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Meeting_IRC_Schedule , read http://wiki.meego.com/IRC_guidelines#IRC_Meeting_Guidelines and instructions for MeetBot at http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html Dec 14 20:12:01 <npm> theodor (or anybody else who can answer): when will video recording and camera functionality be available for n900 handset? I want to run apps like http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-mobility-snapshot/declarative-camera-declarative-camera-qml.html http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-mobility-snapshot/declarative-camera-capturecontrols-qml.html http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-mobility-snapshot/declarative-camera-focusbutton-qml.html ??? Dec 14 20:12:39 <Stskeeps> npm: we're pretty much putting a camera stack into meego from the lowest kernel stuff, to gstreamer to qt mobility support :) Dec 14 20:12:57 <Stskeeps> npm: join the status meeting on thursday on #meego-meeting , we do team status'es there Dec 14 20:13:35 <npm> any idea as to timeframe??? 1.2? a future release of 1.1? Dec 14 20:14:03 <Stskeeps> 1.2 timeframe, afai Dec 14 20:14:04 <Stskeeps> k Dec 14 20:14:12 <Stskeeps> we aren't adding new features to 1.1 Dec 14 20:14:20 <npm> ah, that's good to know. Dec 14 20:15:04 <npm> so right now, in 1.1 n900, i could record audio, but not video, correct? and in 1.2 n900, would i be able to record video, or just take photos Dec 14 20:15:27 <Stskeeps> that's what i'm hoping.. but let's see Dec 14 20:15:51 <npm> i'm asking because i'm trying to figure out how to break up the work for http://ytd-meego.googlecode.com Dec 14 20:17:13 <npm> seems like i should work on the basic app framework, QML, youtube-direct and webby things (like the client side of http://code.google.com/intl/ja/apis/youtube/2.0/developers_guide_protocol_resumable_uploads.html for slow/flaky/wireless networks) Dec 14 20:17:36 <MohammadAG> what port does the initrd ssh server run on? ssh: connect to host 192.168.2.15 port 22: Connection refused Dec 14 20:17:37 <npm> and then wait for 1.2++ to get the camera stuff going Dec 14 20:22:12 <npm> Stskeeps: unfortunately, for the "webby stuff" i may need QtWebKit, which, as mentioned in #meego-arm, I'm having problems w/ compiling Dec 14 20:22:45 <Stskeeps> right Dec 14 20:22:49 <Stskeeps> check if there's a bug Dec 14 20:23:49 <MohammadAG> npm, I got problems with it too Dec 14 20:24:04 <MohammadAG> QWebview.h wasn't found Dec 14 20:24:09 <npm> ah Dec 14 20:26:10 <npm> so what about dropping it into /usr/lib64/madde/linux-x86_64/sysroots/meego-core-armv7l-madde-sysroot-1.1-fs/usr/include/ as workaround? Dec 14 20:26:23 <kyb3R> Stskeeps: nice! Dec 14 20:26:45 <kyb3R> haven't used the bot before, so... Dec 14 20:27:08 <Stskeeps> it's easy :) Dec 14 20:29:17 <MohammadAG> npm, haven't tried it ;) Dec 14 20:29:49 <MohammadAG> currently N900-less, sort of, partitioning the eMMC to install MeeGo onto it, just hope the full battery doesn't run out cause of the backlight Dec 14 20:30:21 <MohammadAG> hmm, screen turned off, I'm assuming this is normal? :S Dec 14 20:30:22 <kyb3R> Stskeeps: errr...so I should hold our meeting at #meego-meeting? Dec 14 20:32:38 <kyb3R> that's not a problem, just wondering how things should be done :) Dec 14 20:33:26 <Stskeeps> kyb3R: yes :) Dec 14 20:33:29 <Stskeeps> read the urls above Dec 14 20:37:01 <kyb3R> Stskeeps: ok, and we get the logs and stuff? that would be awesome Dec 14 20:37:26 <Stskeeps> yeah Dec 14 20:37:28 <kyb3R> now I just have to learn to use it :) Dec 14 20:37:34 <Stskeeps> check out TSG meeting minutes for example Dec 14 20:37:40 <kyb3R> i will Dec 14 20:38:21 <kyb3R> is the intention to hold all meetings there? I have probably missed some emails or something Dec 14 20:38:45 <kyb3R> regardles if regional or global Dec 14 20:38:49 <Stskeeps> it's a good thing to do it at least, keeps things central :) Dec 14 20:38:59 <Stskeeps> and shows project activity instead of being 'hid away' in irc channels Dec 14 20:39:00 <kyb3R> that's right Dec 14 20:39:08 <kyb3R> again I agree Dec 14 20:39:54 <kyb3R> thanks for the info, you wiki changes lurking beast ;) Dec 14 21:51:57 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: while i doubt it's possible, it'd be good to have a rule that policy proposals should be posted on a public mailing list like a week before the tsg meeting in question :) Dec 14 21:52:15 <DawnFoster> Stskeeps: I would *love* to see that happen :) Dec 14 21:52:22 <MohammadAG> What's the red LED supposed to mean? Dec 14 21:52:31 <Stskeeps> MohammadAG: 1.2 is codename 'devil' Dec 14 21:52:32 <MohammadAG> low battery? Dec 14 21:52:32 <alterego> deeeeeeeeeeeeeath Dec 14 21:52:44 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: yeah.. though i know things don't always work that way ;) Dec 14 21:53:32 <DawnFoster> Stskeeps: "If I ran the zoo," said young Gerald McGrew. "I'd make a few changes, that's just what I'd do" :) Dec 14 21:53:38 <MohammadAG> Stskeeps, is the red LED really _that_ necessary? I don't see cupcakes with android devices ;) Dec 14 21:53:46 <MohammadAG> MeeGo running from the eMMC, it's damn fast! Dec 14 21:53:47 <Stskeeps> MohammadAG: we actually don't know why it turned red. Dec 14 21:54:38 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: hehe :) Dec 14 21:54:40 * Stskeeps heads to sleep Dec 14 21:54:42 <MohammadAG> Stskeeps, cause you're writing 255 to the red led node? Dec 14 21:54:49 <DawnFoster> night Stskeeps Dec 14 21:55:05 <Stskeeps> MohammadAG: well yes, but orange rgb.. Dec 14 21:56:14 <MohammadAG> shall I add this to the wiki? Dec 14 22:30:18 <lardman> night Dec 14 22:30:32 <sivang> MohammadAG: put it back to maemo now? Dec 14 22:30:37 <sivang> GeneralAntilles: hey ryan :) Dec 14 22:31:37 <MohammadAG> sivang, it's not that, why are two kernels failing to find the eMMC? Dec 14 22:31:57 <MohammadAG> actually, I get something like p1 p2 p3 p4 < p5 > Dec 14 22:32:02 <MohammadAG> not sure what the <> mean Dec 14 22:32:30 <sivang> hmm Dec 14 22:32:33 <sivang> then I don't know Dec 14 22:32:38 <sivang> maybe doc will know? Dec 14 22:33:10 <sivang> MohammadAG: maybe you can try to put itback to Maemo, e..g by reflashing the eMMC image Dec 14 22:33:18 <sivang> MohammadAG: and if it works, retsrat all over? Dec 14 22:33:27 * sivang i stalking out of where the sun does not shine Dec 14 22:33:37 <GeneralAntilles> sivang: howdy. Dec 14 22:33:41 <MohammadAG> maemo works fine Dec 14 22:33:46 <MohammadAG> I never touched it in the first place Dec 14 22:33:50 <sivang> MohammadAG: with the same eMMC? Dec 14 22:34:07 <MohammadAG> but meego booted up fine once, second time (with maemo boot in between), no dice Dec 14 22:34:09 <sivang> you said you thought you b0rked your eMMC Dec 14 22:34:27 <sivang> if Maemo boots,and runs, usable, can it still be the eMMC? Dec 14 22:34:38 <MohammadAG> well, yes, I can't export /dev/mmcblk* with the rescue image Dec 14 22:34:40 <sivang> given you've used enough stuff from home or "user"storage Dec 14 22:34:47 <sivang> oh Dec 14 22:34:51 <sivang> I see Dec 14 22:34:52 <MohammadAG> I have 6 partitions on the eMMC Dec 14 22:35:08 <sivang> ext4? Dec 14 22:35:30 <sivang> GeneralAntilles: are you working with qt/c++ by now? Dec 14 22:35:32 <MohammadAG> actually, "5" Dec 14 22:35:46 <MohammadAG> vfat, ext3, swap (default 3), extended partition, and btrfs Dec 14 22:36:09 <sivang> you're thinking wear out? Dec 14 22:36:19 <MohammadAG> doubt it Dec 14 22:36:39 <sivang> then I don't know. Dec 14 22:36:50 <sivang> no idea, hope it is fine though Dec 14 22:39:51 <MohammadAG> oh Dec 14 22:39:54 <MohammadAG> should've noticed that Dec 14 22:40:16 <MohammadAG> Stskeeps, is mmcblk naming stable in MeeGo? Dec 14 22:40:38 <MohammadAG> or is first detect -> first name? Dec 14 22:43:00 * Jeff_S waits idly by for DawnFoster to quote dr. suess Dec 14 22:44:14 <DawnFoster> Jeff_S: too late, you missed the if I ran the Zoo quote :) Dec 14 22:54:01 <MohammadAG> sivang, nevermind, figured it out, might put this on the wiki if anyone feels it's worth doing so Dec 14 22:55:39 <MohammadAG> sivang, http://i51.tinypic.com/nez67p.jpg Dec 14 22:59:14 <auke> MohammadAG: it's unstable - the order can be random Dec 14 23:00:25 <MohammadAG> auke, any plans to fix that? Dec 14 23:00:45 <auke> I don't think it's fixable Dec 14 23:00:53 <auke> mmc controllers can come and go Dec 14 23:01:03 <auke> they're not like sata controllers on a system board Dec 14 23:02:01 <auke> also, many kernel subsystems are "unordered" by design Dec 14 23:02:40 <sivang> MohammadAG: lba? Dec 14 23:05:09 <sivang> auke: so mmc is like a usb stick plugged, only onboard right? Dec 14 23:06:01 <auke> mcc can be hotplugged, can be onboard Dec 14 23:06:17 <auke> see? it just unplugged :) Dec 14 23:08:15 <ShadowJK> I'd say it's like an sd or mmc card, only onboard :P Dec 14 23:08:40 <ShadowJK> emmc that is.. Dec 14 23:09:27 <srbaker> heya folks Dec 14 23:09:33 <srbaker> anyone know if the N8 is likely to run meego? Dec 14 23:10:11 <ShadowJK> not likely Dec 14 23:10:20 <GeneralAntilles> sivang: no. Dec 14 23:10:38 <srbaker> that's a shame. Dec 14 23:10:52 <srbaker> it looks like a very sweet device. but i'm not putting any money in the symbian bucket Dec 14 23:11:19 <ShadowJK> I don't think it even meets the minimum hw specs for MeeGo Dec 14 23:13:28 <srbaker> oh Dec 14 23:13:48 <srbaker> is there any hardware out ther ei can run meego on today? Dec 14 23:13:53 <srbaker> i can't find any by googling intel ivi Dec 14 23:14:20 <sivang> ShadowJK: that was what I was getting at, precislhy Dec 14 23:14:29 <sivang> GeneralAntilles: ah, ok Dec 14 23:14:57 <sivang> srbaker: the symbian there is very different from what you've came to know s far Dec 14 23:15:15 <srbaker> sivang: but it's still closed, and only used by one carrier, right? Dec 14 23:15:43 <sivang> srbaker: ah, I thought you were concenred by quality of UX , which in my taste meets most of my needs from a non hacker's device Dec 14 23:15:44 <ShadowJK> that's not a symbian issue.. Dec 14 23:16:15 <sivang> srbaker: and is slick and cool and fast as a lightning on the N8 Dec 14 23:16:27 <srbaker> yeah, i'm not concerned about how good it feels. Dec 14 23:16:33 <ShadowJK> Well.. if "getting things done" is part of UX, then symbian in general fails :) Dec 14 23:16:33 <srbaker> the iphone feels great, too, but it's a jail. Dec 14 23:16:47 <sivang> srbaker: what do you want to do with it? Dec 14 23:17:01 <srbaker> sivang: don't know yet. buti don't want to be prevented from doing anything Dec 14 23:17:28 <ShadowJK> though with the python for s60 port, you can spend a weekend writing yourself some basic software for basic needs, like transfering files over wlan :) Dec 14 23:17:38 <sivang> srbaker: if app developm,ent is what you want, that's a done deal and you don't need tp pay 150$ for the sdk Dec 14 23:17:45 <sivang> ShadowJK: :) Dec 14 23:18:09 <sivang> srbaker: given you know how to use symbian libs for stuff not covered by qt, so far Dec 14 23:18:17 <sivang> srbaker: but lots of it is getting htere Dec 14 23:18:58 <srbaker> how are maemo and meego related? Dec 14 23:19:02 <srbaker> is meego the successor of maemo? Dec 14 23:19:09 <ShadowJK> but then when it comes to getting openvpn running so I can access my email I gave up, the compiler didn't work on my computer, though someone had written an enormous document on how to run it with wine, etc... and then the C library is kinda weird :s Dec 15 00:19:57 <CosmoHill> cyas Dec 15 02:09:52 <rangelife> anyone know how to reject an incoming call programmatically (C++/QT example or command line util)? Dec 15 02:10:15 <rangelife> I used a dbus-send command on fremantle but it doesn't work on harmattan Dec 15 02:36:22 <hellyeah> hey Dec 15 02:36:27 <hellyeah> what is the meego Dec 15 02:36:38 <hellyeah> is a kind of linux Dec 15 02:59:13 <harryhe> who has done with local OBS? I failed in step 6 to import the release, the warning is "SSL certificate checks disabled," the error is "Server returned an error: HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized" **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 15 02:59:57 2010