**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 15 02:59:57 2010 Dec 15 03:36:16 good evening (ugt) Dec 15 04:40:39 morning Dec 15 05:26:49 hi. does anybody know obs-git? Dec 15 05:32:43 http://developer.meego.com/ Dec 15 05:34:42 morning Dec 15 05:54:31 Tervrik: the website(http://developer.meego.com/) need user name and passwd.....i cann't access to it... Dec 15 05:54:43 hi. does anybody know obs-git? Dec 15 06:06:27 hi. does anybody know obs-git? Dec 15 06:24:50 Stskeeps, npm: Thanks stskeeps, its nice that we have someone answering here almost 24/7 :) Dec 15 06:25:10 yeah, i need to get a life Dec 15 06:25:10 :P Dec 15 06:26:57 question around video recording is quite much depending the accelerated encoders Dec 15 06:28:52 :nod: Dec 15 06:29:07 morn tekojo Dec 15 06:29:15 morning! Dec 15 06:30:21 hi. anybody know obs-git? Dec 15 06:33:43 * thiago_home sees the forecast for next week Dec 15 06:33:53 -16, -18, -18, -18 Dec 15 06:33:58 almost like finland? Dec 15 06:33:58 :P Dec 15 06:34:00 I'm glad I won't be here Dec 15 06:34:01 :) Dec 15 06:34:21 looks pretty familiar Dec 15 06:35:29 thiago_home: What version of qtcreator has the graphical qml editor? Dec 15 06:35:38 2.0 Dec 15 06:35:49 timoph: i was able to install from qt sdk and after enabling it in extensions, it was there Dec 15 06:35:51 but disabled. It's enabled in 2.1. Dec 15 06:36:14 ah. that explains why it doesn't work for me :) Dec 15 06:36:25 quite nice editor though Dec 15 06:37:08 yep. I saw a demo of it and decided that it's time for me to start learning new tricks Dec 15 06:38:20 i caught up on qml quite easily, which was a plus experience for me :) Dec 15 06:38:26 didn't write any qt before Dec 15 06:38:48 attila demoed some qml stuff that had wrappers to some c physics engine on n900. Basically just bunch of blocks on the screen that move when you rotate the device Dec 15 06:39:26 that was quite impressive Dec 15 06:54:17 ok, now off to last day of work this year Dec 15 06:54:23 enjoy! Dec 15 06:54:40 thiago_home, oh, have nice holiday! Dec 15 07:00:29 hi theodor Stskeeps -- "question around video recording is quite much depending the accelerated encoders" -- yep, i've been wondering how the omap DSP is invoked, and how QtMobility abstracts away compression for different platforms and coprocessors Dec 15 07:01:29 npm: 'quite' :) Dec 15 07:02:31 well it could also happen in gstreamer and qtmobility just pretties up that layer a little? Dec 15 07:02:52 gstreamer does the magic and qtmobility presents a interface to apps Dec 15 07:03:54 * npm wonders if there's a document like http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Multimedia_Domain Dec 15 07:03:58 or is it the same Dec 15 07:05:50 well, no. Dec 15 07:06:46 not same or not equiv to maemo 5 "Developer Guide/Architecture/Multimedia Domain" Dec 15 07:08:57 the idea hasn't changed "much" but api's aren't the same Dec 15 07:11:26 ok. But if i build to http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-mobility-snapshot/multimedia.html#video-clips then i can expect things to work in 1.2 timeframe for video recording? Dec 15 07:14:46 theodor -- in general would you consider it wise for me to get working on the web-aspects of http://ytd-direct.googlecode.com first and implement the "integrated video camera" part later when the camera stuff gets to app-developer state? Dec 15 07:19:42 * npm notes lack of QML API's for recording video clips akin to http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-mobility-snapshot/qml-video.html for playback Dec 15 07:22:23 * npm wonders what's causing delay on porting working video/camera stuff from maemo to meego -- wouldn't the code running on the DSP chip be the same independent of which OS called it? Dec 15 07:25:44 I wouldn't be too surprised if it was somehow tied to qtmobility Dec 15 07:28:44 well in examples like http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-mobility-snapshot/declarative-camera-capturecontrols-qml.html it's tied to "import QtMultimediaKit 1.1" Dec 15 07:30:08 qt camera api <-> gst camerabin.. is certainly the targeted thing Dec 15 07:32:03 yep, multidiakit (IIRC) does come from mobility Dec 15 07:32:12 currently, the differences in kernel level are a bit delaying camera integration.. since we have selected to support new architecture that cannot be accepted by meego reference kernel due its partly experimental Dec 15 07:43:19 npm: To fully featurize camera in N900, Meego needs components that used to be closed binaries in Maemo side. I assume a bunch of 3rdParty agreements needs to be dealt differently with Meego, and can only hope that this is ongoing work. Dec 15 07:47:23 lbt: hello Dec 15 07:48:00 npm: so, I wish not to give any hints based on assumption and cannot currently expect more myself than oss developer release that doesn't utilize accelerated codecs nor camera controls. Dec 15 07:48:04 moin Dec 15 07:49:19 lbt: i want to use meego community obs system. Dec 15 07:50:04 lbt: how to get meego community obs system account? Dec 15 07:52:00 X-Fade: hello Dec 15 07:52:21 X-Fade: how to get meego community obs system account? Dec 15 07:52:37 giwon: Sure. What is your meego.com username? Dec 15 07:53:02 X-Fade: username is namgiwon Dec 15 07:53:35 giwon: Ok, done. Dec 15 07:53:48 X-Fade: Thanks Dec 15 08:00:06 X-Fade: meego.com and obs system same password? Dec 15 08:02:22 X-Fade: Authentication failed Dec 15 08:04:13 giwon: Yes, same account. Dec 15 08:06:34 X-Fade: Thanks! Dec 15 08:11:33 theodor: thanks for all the answers... Dec 15 08:13:03 what about, instead of using closed binaries from maemo side, using http://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/fcam/html/ which has it's own maemo kernel drivers, presumably open-source Dec 15 08:14:38 (i need to go to bed now... will look at your answers in morning scrollback) Dec 15 08:15:07 npm: fcam was considered, but back then it lack support for new api's Dec 15 08:17:25 hi. anybody know obs-git or bsgit? Dec 15 08:18:21 theodor: Kari Pulli indicated interest in providing info to help get FCam ported to meego (i was considering using fcam until i understood its kernel dependency and non QtMobility layering) Dec 15 08:19:25 if that remains an issue, perhaps revisit FCam? Dec 15 08:19:48 gnight.. really :) Dec 15 08:20:14 npm: good to know. gnight. Dec 15 08:54:40 Morning, all Dec 15 08:56:18 hi. anybody know obs-git or bsgit? Dec 15 09:13:26 <_r1_> ppp/w 4 Dec 15 09:13:32 <_r1_> fail. Dec 15 10:59:15 hello, I'm trying to play a video in a qml file on meego netbook, but I'm getting No uri set error, any suggestions ? Dec 15 11:37:41 OMG http://twitter.com/keybuk/status/14822450634166272 :) Dec 15 11:40:33 qgil: who is he? Dec 15 11:40:40 and why did they leave only to come back? Dec 15 11:40:51 those OMG guys should also form a Web Task Force... Dec 15 11:40:54 Banshee Dec 15 11:41:26 of course, OMG already stands for Object Management Group (which has many Task Forces, alas, no Web Task Force) Dec 15 11:43:51 lardman: Scott James Remnant is known by its Upstart development, among other things - that comment has different layers of irony, I think Dec 15 11:44:28 ok thanks for the info :) Dec 15 11:44:58 * Stskeeps still tries to understand why people expect to use trademarks without permission, start using them and then complain when they can't use them.. Dec 15 11:45:17 qgil: did you get my email? ;) I forgot to mention that my N900 is also my connection to the internet :) Dec 15 11:45:48 Stskeeps, lots of OSS folks build systems from other components without issue Dec 15 11:45:49 alterego: yes I did Dec 15 11:46:17 hello all! Dec 15 11:46:27 imagine the issues we would have ourselves if X11 or something had the same restrictions Dec 15 11:46:35 i want to install monodevelop at my meego Dec 15 11:46:47 can you tell me how can i do it? Dec 15 11:47:27 lcuk: ignoring the package name issue, taking opensuse, dropping in replacements for key system components and releasing it as opensuse isn't alright Dec 15 11:48:02 (go read their trademark guidelines) Dec 15 11:48:44 Stskeeps, not against the words as said, merely pointing out that its not as clear cut Dec 15 11:49:19 i personally find it entirely fair that you can't call something that's not really meego anything that can be confused with being meego Dec 15 11:49:22 :P Dec 15 11:50:33 How do I tell mic not to compress my raw images? Dec 15 11:50:43 package=none or something Dec 15 11:50:45 ask sage Dec 15 11:50:45 :P Dec 15 11:51:44 Maybe --compress-disk-image :) Dec 15 11:51:49 --help is wonderful Dec 15 11:55:08 alterego: --compress-disk-image=none Dec 15 11:55:17 Sage__: yeah, thanks :) Dec 15 11:55:29 Can I add that into my .ks? Dec 15 12:05:22 Stskeeps: I heard you could help get our channel (#meego-qa-tools) registered, etc. so that someone would have operator rights in there? Dec 15 12:05:42 timoph: we're working on it but freenode group registrations seem to go into /dev/null Dec 15 12:05:50 timoph: if you can all leave you can regain ops Dec 15 12:06:02 Stskeeps, hm? Dec 15 12:06:04 that might not be doable anymore Dec 15 12:06:31 lcuk: not kidding.. we sent ours back in start of project Dec 15 12:06:31 I thought meego had GRP configured and setup so that meego admins could manage all #meego* channelsto liking? Dec 15 12:06:38 GRF * Dec 15 12:07:15 Stskeeps, hmm I tohught it was just me on #liqbase Dec 15 12:07:33 there is a freenode staffer who idles there, I will ask specifically about #meego Dec 15 12:08:40 too many people from around the world idling there to get everyone to leave Dec 15 12:09:44 timoph, I had that problem with only 10 people Dec 15 12:09:57 :) Dec 15 12:09:58 having 60 in yours makes it even tougher Dec 15 12:10:22 practically impossible Dec 15 12:10:45 alterego: that is mic cmdline so can't add that to the .ks file Dec 15 12:11:25 Sage__: I'll just make a few aliases, my mic commands are too many and too long to remember :) Dec 15 12:12:23 alterego: some (at some point hopefully all) of those values can be put to /etc/mic2/mic2.conf Dec 15 12:12:54 Cool Dec 15 12:12:55 or you can create your own .conf file and give that to mic so no need to use the one in /etc/ Dec 15 12:13:15 give --siteconf=file.conf Dec 15 12:13:31 Well, the machine (VM) I'm using to build these images is only really for building these images :) Dec 15 12:13:41 Doesn't do anything else now except update my dailys. Dec 15 12:14:25 using ubuntu and have fedora as vm? ;) Dec 15 12:14:50 Exactly, Dec 15 12:15:23 It's a shocking difference, there must be a lot of fedora reliant stuff in the post inst scripts and things :/ Dec 15 12:16:13 I might still look into fixing mic on ubuntu, but I've a feeling the issue is also in the packages not just mic. Dec 15 12:16:52 AFAIK the issue is in the rpm that is used in ubuntu or something like that. Dec 15 12:17:36 so it gives invalid package database or something. But you should be able to create the images fine with the bootstrap mode (--run-mode=1) Dec 15 12:18:01 Oh, why isn't that documented on the wiki :) Dec 15 12:18:13 hello Dec 15 12:18:27 Does bootstrap mode make a chroot environment for your host? Dec 15 12:18:33 s/for/on/ ? Dec 15 12:18:53 if someone wants to find more app for meego handset device is there any other place except gitorious? Dec 15 12:19:03 alterego: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9086 Dec 15 12:19:36 alterego: bootstrap mode creates first a chroot where it creates the image. Bootstrap mode does not currently work on arm though. Dec 15 12:20:01 and do u have any news about nokia's up coming meego smartphone? Dec 15 12:20:08 Oh, well, ARM is my target platform. Dec 15 12:20:09 boostrapmode patch for arm: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10853 Dec 15 12:20:32 Ah, neat :) Dec 15 12:20:38 that is not tested much though so it might not work Dec 15 12:20:50 please let me know if you try it out how it works :) Dec 15 12:20:59 I will do :) Dec 15 12:21:34 you need to change the urls a bit for that and replace the architecture to @ARCH@ Dec 15 12:22:09 Yeah, I'm using kernel.org mirror anyway. Dec 15 12:22:20 And another for sgx Dec 15 12:22:39 still you need to use @ARCH@ for all repos that contains architecture specific things. Dec 15 12:23:04 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/core/repos/armv7l/packages/ -> http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/core/repos/@ARCH@/packages/ Dec 15 12:23:32 So then it'll rely on the --arch flag too? Dec 15 12:23:44 I tend to use BUILD_ID aswell. Dec 15 12:23:46 :) Dec 15 12:24:03 not exactly Dec 15 12:24:46 if you specify --arch=armv7l and --run-mode=1 then it does first x86 chroot and after chrooting it changes to armv7l so it uses the repos for both arches. Dec 15 12:25:03 Yes, that's what I thought Dec 15 12:25:13 I understand now though why you need the ARCH thanks :) Dec 15 12:25:41 current mic tries to do arm chroot where it would create arm image but then many things go wrong. Dec 15 12:25:48 Yeah Dec 15 12:26:00 Does this stop the requirement of qemu-arm-static? Dec 15 12:26:05 Or do you still need it on the host? Dec 15 12:26:14 still need that Dec 15 12:26:19 Okay Dec 15 12:26:35 * alterego sets up an ubuntu 10.10 VM to work on this from scratch Dec 15 12:26:41 I'll document it and stick it on the wiki too. Dec 15 12:27:25 I would upstream that patch myself but I need more testing from others that it works fluently and does not destroy anything. Not sure either if that is still valid on top of the git master. Dec 15 12:27:41 Well, that is what I was going to go with. Dec 15 12:27:48 I'll let you know how I get on Dec 15 12:31:47 Hi! Dec 15 12:31:57 wello Dec 15 12:31:58 I bought a Kendo M7 today. Dec 15 12:32:25 I want to switch OS to Meego. I went to the wiki, but it has no instructions for my distro. Dec 15 12:32:35 Running Mandriva Linux 2010.1 Dec 15 12:32:40 Fully updated. Dec 15 12:33:14 What do I do? Dec 15 12:33:22 What CAN I do? Dec 15 12:33:43 Stskeeps: ??????????? Dec 15 12:33:57 whoa, cut down on the caffiene man :) Dec 15 12:34:26 Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehr!!!!!! Wrong answer!!!! ;) Dec 15 12:34:33 Try again for a million bucks!!!!!! Dec 15 12:34:40 hehehehe Dec 15 12:34:53 Sage__: I'm testing in ubuntu 10.10 64bit Dec 15 12:35:09 Nobody that can help me? Dec 15 12:35:21 alterego: uh, 64-bit ;) Dec 15 12:35:30 have fun ;) Dec 15 12:35:55 Sage__: doing this first, then I'll try 32-bit, I just don't have a 10.10 32bit media laying around ;) Dec 15 12:36:13 Hrm, can I force it to use a 32bit bootstrap chroot? ;) Dec 15 12:36:14 Umeaboy: make a usb stick, boot it Dec 15 12:36:21 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Dec 15 12:36:27 USB-stick? Dec 15 12:36:34 Lets see. Dec 15 12:36:42 What can I use? Dec 15 12:37:26 alterego: the bootstrap is 32-bit always as MeeGo is 32-bit Dec 15 12:37:52 alterego: it creates the bootstrap from meego packages Dec 15 12:38:08 Okay, so it should be alright ... Dec 15 12:38:44 _should_, yes ;) Dec 15 12:53:09 I'm having trouble understand what do actually download. Dec 15 12:53:14 Can someone help me? Dec 15 12:53:41 you need to write a image file to a USB stick, check out meego.com Dec 15 12:54:09 Yes, but that's where I'm lost. Dec 15 12:54:20 What to write to the USB-stick. Dec 15 12:54:23 which package and what file holds the Welcome message that is shown in MyZone on the netbook UI? Dec 15 12:54:27 There are many. Dec 15 12:54:36 FunkyPenguin: grep usually helps Dec 15 12:54:37 :P Dec 15 12:54:52 Handet? Dec 15 12:54:55 Umeaboy: http://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.1/meego-v1.1-netbooks Dec 15 12:54:56 Handset? Dec 15 12:54:57 probably Dec 15 12:55:05 For a Surf-tablet? Dec 15 12:55:15 Stskeeps, ah a fountain of knowledge as always ;) Dec 15 12:55:17 Umeaboy: well you can try handset too, it's not half bad Dec 15 12:55:31 I want to use the proper one. Dec 15 12:55:34 FunkyPenguin: well that's how i would do it, and then ask rpm for the package name Dec 15 12:55:39 So nothing bad happens. Dec 15 12:56:12 hello all. bigproblem how to go back after a "zypper dist-upgrade" Dec 15 12:56:48 uxlaunch is only a white screen for me now Dec 15 13:15:18 npm, looks like you hit the same problem I got too :P Dec 15 13:15:25 corrupt RPMs Dec 15 13:17:34 hi, does any one know how to setup networking between win xp and n900 running meego? Dec 15 13:22:31 kysymys: should work the same as it does under maemo Dec 15 13:22:50 Your host IP should be 192.168.2.1 and the N900 is 192.168.2.15 Dec 15 13:23:51 alterego: but if have other host ip? for instance i have 10.0.0.2 Dec 15 13:24:35 Then you'll need to reconfigure usb0 on the N900 to be in that subnet Dec 15 13:24:57 thanks Dec 15 13:30:29 alterego, umm, is that necessary? Dec 15 13:31:17 It is if he wants to use that network address Dec 15 13:33:38 my PC's ip is 192.168.1.119 and it works fine as is Dec 15 13:35:36 is anybody on netbook with trunk/daily updates ? Dec 15 13:35:57 my main aim is to develop applications using qtcreator and windows. but i can't do it without networking. am i right? Dec 15 13:37:02 why kysymys ? you need network only to download ?! Dec 15 13:37:21 kysymys: you can do it oer wifi too Dec 15 13:37:40 I need to debug and so on, to install app Dec 15 13:38:21 nobody have notified any problem with daily update ? Dec 15 13:38:37 unfortunately, i have no wifi Dec 15 13:44:28 another question: after a 'zypper dup' how to come back to meego 1.1 ? Dec 15 13:55:28 niala1, I don't think that is easily feasible .... reinstall again? Dec 15 14:24:28 i m crazy.. 'zypper rm meego-release' 1,7GiB will be freed ..... Dec 15 14:47:42 hello friends , i followed the instructions on the installation of QEMU for the runtime , but the launch is unsuccessful Dec 15 14:49:04 also the ping give me a exit error Dec 15 15:00:04 mak89k, which instructions and what platform ? I repeatedly see users report some kind of error/problem getting QEMU to work, not sure if its instructions, design or user-error Dec 15 15:01:13 its the QEMU that is giving me the problem , there is no screen or anything. i am trying the Xephyr method hope it works Dec 15 15:01:30 btw i am running asus 1005ha , which is tested for it Dec 15 15:01:30 desktop Linux ? which distro ? Dec 15 15:01:34 ubuntu Dec 15 15:01:37 10.04 Dec 15 15:01:53 and the instructions you followed were from ? Dec 15 15:02:11 the wiki from the meego developer page Dec 15 15:03:59 64bit or 32bit linux? Dec 15 15:04:16 Stskeeps: around? :) Dec 15 15:04:28 hi all Dec 15 15:05:01 lo wazd Dec 15 15:05:09 mak89k, uname -m Dec 15 15:05:39 odin_: 32bit Dec 15 15:05:53 i686 Dec 15 15:06:50 ok I don't know the answer to your particular problem, just collecting info Dec 15 15:07:51 mak89k, this is the wiki page ? http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_QEMU Dec 15 15:08:04 odin_: yes thats it Dec 15 15:09:12 :s mdam Dec 15 15:11:34 odin_: does qemu work for you? Dec 15 15:12:27 mak89k, I don't use ubuntu, but Fedora, last time I fired it up it worked Dec 15 15:14:42 odin_: maan , this situation sucks. Dec 15 15:15:53 mak89k, you are using ubunto on bare-metal ? yes there are a few too many headaches getting QEMU fired up, maybe a better self-test-diagnostic that explains the problem on startup would see fewer blocking progress issues Dec 15 15:16:51 bare-metal? Dec 15 15:16:59 mak89k, can you pastebin your /proc/cpuinfo (I presume hardware is less than 3 years old and 64bit capable) Dec 15 15:17:24 nope i bought this netbook lat december Dec 15 15:17:24 mak89k, bare-metal == not running under VMWare or something like it, anyhows you said ASUS 1005ha so I presume not Dec 15 15:17:43 Atom N280 Dec 15 15:17:58 Atom 270 Dec 15 15:18:38 sorr 280 Dec 15 15:18:41 sorr* Dec 15 15:19:08 N270/N280 no VT-X (according to spec sheet) Dec 15 15:19:36 odin_: so wat does that mean? Dec 15 15:20:23 I think I heard is was a requirement now for the SDK/QEMU... it is the CPU hypervisor virtualization hardware assistance feature Dec 15 15:21:00 so why doesn't ./meego-qemu-start not have a big fat warning / error on startup about it ? Dec 15 15:21:30 mak89k, maybe goto #meego-sdk to confirm this matter ? Dec 15 15:21:59 odin_: thanks ... btw where is the meego-qemu-start file? Dec 15 15:22:55 mak89k, in the instructions on the WIKI (for me) Dec 15 15:25:07 the instruction do kind of indicate that you only need VT-X cpu feature support when using Graphics Acceleration for qemu-gl and kind of imply if you don't want that, you are fine Dec 15 15:29:52 * yacc wonders if anyone here has experience with the WeTab? Dec 15 15:32:39 yacc, :) have had a brief play on one Dec 15 15:32:45 at helsinki meego meetup Dec 15 15:35:11 lcuk, I wonder if it's worth the bother. The cpu-fan and weight seem to be kind of a problem, but then reviews can be over pedantic. *scratch-head* Dec 15 15:35:35 OTOH, the manufacturer seems to be pushing updates to implement all features quite fast, ... Dec 15 15:35:52 yacc, idk - am looking at the lenovo ideapad which seems to have best of both wrt netbook/tablet Dec 15 15:36:09 i do wonder though whether the ideapad interface can work on it, its all meego, right? Dec 15 15:36:27 s/ideapad/wetab/ Dec 15 15:36:27 lcuk meant: i do wonder though whether the wetab interface can work on it, its all meego, right? Dec 15 15:36:58 oh dear, meego handset can't be seriously having fennec as the default browser Dec 15 15:36:59 lcuk, which ideapad? The S10 seems to be a netbook with keyboard, ... Dec 15 15:37:01 even the maemo nightlies are too slow and sluggish for any pratical use Dec 15 15:37:13 yacc - 10" multitouch Dec 15 15:37:14 joppu: why not? Dec 15 15:37:22 or so Dec 15 15:37:47 yacc, ideapad is a slate too Dec 15 15:37:56 Stskeeps: have the proprietary gfx stuff been merged into trunk (so if I get the latest snapshot - I will be getting that?)? Dec 15 15:38:38 s10-3t has a touchscreen as well a keyboard Dec 15 15:38:40 lcuk, yeah, I see it. Dec 15 15:38:47 because at its current state fennec is still way too unoptimised Dec 15 15:38:54 lcuk, OTOH, 1.5kg does not look that cool. Dec 15 15:39:05 I've got a 2.4kg HP convertible already, ... Dec 15 15:39:13 ideapad is convertible Dec 15 15:39:22 not a slate Dec 15 15:39:35 it's been in developement for quite a long time and even the supposedly stable versions are next to unusable Dec 15 15:40:28 fennec? Dec 15 15:40:36 mobile firefox Dec 15 15:40:36 yeah Dec 15 15:41:33 wazd_, i have a convertable car Dec 15 15:42:24 with its top down its no different to a real topless car :) Dec 15 15:42:38 same can be said for convertable laptops turning into a slate Dec 15 15:44:01 wazd, best of all, its also getting the first multi ux meego (bug 10874), netbook and handset so far Dec 15 15:44:04 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10874 nor, Undecided, ---, elliot.smith, VERI FIXED, Multi UX Meego instructions writeup Dec 15 15:44:09 which ux will it get next? :) Dec 15 16:06:02 qgil: As you may have noticed on the wiki, Debian is interested in the handset UX (and I am not interested in netbook at all) Dec 15 16:07:22 juliank, then put handset ontop of netbook :) Dec 15 16:10:57 lcuk: Far more people are interested in netbook overall, and the current page is sorted reverse alphabetically. Dec 15 16:11:06 or not Dec 15 16:30:17 juliank: mno, I hadn't noticed - URL? Dec 15 16:30:45 juliank: ah, you mean the one with meego in package names? Dec 15 16:30:50 qgil: Yes Dec 15 16:31:44 juliank: sorry, I was under the assumption that the only contentious UX was netbook, feel free to change Dec 15 16:32:05 juliank: btw, do you mind explaining what are exactly the problems you are facing now? Dec 15 16:32:25 did you see my replies in meego-community, after the topics was decided off-topic in meego-dev' Dec 15 16:33:02 for background tro the channel: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_in_package_names Dec 15 16:33:18 qgil: I am not subscribed to meego-community, so no Dec 15 16:34:49 juliank: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-December/002889.html & 1 reply until now Dec 15 16:42:58 bacon sandwiches in the canteen >>>>>>> Dec 15 16:43:17 Nice! :) Dec 15 16:45:50 qgil: No response from ibrahim to the new stuff yet Dec 15 16:46:19 well, in what i don't find a too smart move, his email sends a autoanswer that he's out of office until the new year.. Dec 15 16:46:24 so that's probably why Dec 15 16:47:27 :) Dec 15 16:47:34 juliank: what is the new stuff anyway? this is what I want to go down to details Dec 15 16:48:34 qgil: He said no, we then gave reasons where we need to use the name, and are awaiting a response. Dec 15 16:49:02 strangely enough, searching internet for meego ibrahim brings up a person on facebook with an awesome profile picture Dec 15 16:51:36 * lardman is jealous of lcuk Dec 15 16:51:54 Heh Dec 15 16:51:57 lardman, should I email you one Dec 15 16:51:59 lardman: your search just brings up your own? Dec 15 16:52:11 ? Dec 15 16:52:21 like on maemo.org :P Dec 15 16:52:23 Stskeeps, a search without lardman pic is wrong I agree Dec 15 16:52:39 we should make a greasemonkey script Dec 15 16:52:43 lardman_everywhere :P Dec 15 16:52:59 juliank: sorry dfor bothering but can you point (or forward me) the email where tyou explained where you needed to use the name? Dec 15 16:53:08 * lardman is confused, I was talking about the bacon sarnies Dec 15 16:53:10 juliank: probably in packages that have already that name? Dec 15 16:53:31 though it's true maemo.org doens't feel like home without my avatar always displayed ;) Dec 15 16:54:22 qgil: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-December/480531.html Dec 15 16:54:42 qgil: "and use meego only (and only as a technical Dec 15 16:54:43 detail such as file or package name) where we are required to do so, Dec 15 16:54:43 that is, in libraries like libmeegotouch" Dec 15 16:55:35 libmeegotouch is called that way and the license says that you can use and redistribute that package. problem solved (which is my point in my last email) Dec 15 16:55:38 Sage__: ping Dec 15 16:56:41 qgil: That's my opinion as well. Dec 15 16:57:02 and I believe it's everybody's opinion Dec 15 16:57:24 qgil: Well, not ibrahims. Dec 15 16:58:04 juliank: yesterday in my mail linked above I quoted him, and I think using "libmeegotouch" is fully in sync of what he says Dec 15 16:58:36 juliank: if it's not ok then the problem is for the maintainers of libmeegotouch, not yours Dec 15 16:59:01 juliank: then the other thing is how you call this "MeeGo-Handset-UX-on-top-of-Debian" Dec 15 16:59:26 qgil: Your reply is to someone with the name Gabriel Dec 15 16:59:31 juliank: any name in mind? make sure it doesn't sound like "MeeGo" and problem solved Dec 15 16:59:35 hey arjan Dec 15 16:59:51 juliank: the point I'm answering is the same that affects you Dec 15 17:00:32 arjan: A few days ago I saw another 'Arjan' on freenode. Dec 15 17:01:02 hi Dec 15 17:01:09 actually the OMG is not a bad idea :) juliank Dec 15 17:01:29 qgil: I'd for the "Debian Handset", "Debian Netbook" and "Debian IVI" brands Dec 15 17:01:38 juliank: sounds great+ Dec 15 17:03:14 juliank: with those names and just porting the packages needed with "meego" in their names and making sure no MeeGo logo appears in homescreen etc, I don't see any problem Dec 15 17:03:30 arjan: "[Arjan] (~Arjan@524B8562.cm-4-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl): Arjan Snaters" - two people with the same nick is a bit confusing, you might want to keep your eyes open for arjan_ and ask him to use another name. Dec 15 17:04:24 i was wondering how it's going on the development to get non SSSE3 devices working on meego? Dec 15 17:04:35 quietly I'd say Dec 15 17:06:33 juliank following with your email, naming the linux groups and teams "Debian Handset" etc you get rid of more MeeGo words Dec 15 17:06:55 but is there some progress? that would be great! Dec 15 17:07:15 Naming the components inm release notes etc is not a problem of course, if something is called MeeGo Touch Framework and you are using it, so be it Dec 15 17:07:33 juliank: finally, about "why is Nokia handled differently than anyone else? Why are they allowed to use MeeGo/Harmattan for the next product when it is in fact not MeeGo?" Dec 15 17:08:12 I work at Nokia and I have been using the term "MeeGo-Harmattan" only for sanity in public discussions before a release goes out juliank Dec 15 17:09:20 as far as I know Nokia will make a request to the MeeGo project via TSG etc to regulate the use of MeeGo in relation of this Harmattan release that will be not quite yet compliant Dec 15 17:09:58 quim: So, *what* Harmattan will be marketed as? Dec 15 17:11:19 RST38h: Nokia hasn't said anything yet, the first step will be to make a proposal to the MeeGo project and get it approved Dec 15 17:11:31 Ah,I see Dec 15 17:11:33 alterego: pong Dec 15 17:11:45 Not reconsidering using Maemo just this once though? Dec 15 17:11:57 what i'm occasionally wondering about is who is authorized currently to use the meego trademark Dec 15 17:12:00 Sage__: the patch doesn't apply against the latest git :) Dec 15 17:12:19 RST38h: since the MeeGo launch day Nokia has made clear that Maemo would not be used in future releases Dec 15 17:12:26 Stskeeps: Doesn't website have a page of legalese on this? Dec 15 17:12:39 RST38h: sure, but doesn't say who has permission Dec 15 17:12:45 quim: Ok (many things changed since then though) Dec 15 17:12:49 RST38h: and honestly, even if Harmattan is technically not MeeGo compliant (packaging and some little bits) it is a lot closer to MeeGo than to Maemo Dec 15 17:12:54 alterego: ok, I need to rebase it then at some point. Propably tomorrow. Dec 15 17:13:13 Sage__: okay, I'll do a manual patch for now. Dec 15 17:13:47 Stskeeps: we need to get this compliance spec approved by the TSG in order to have a crystal clear answer Dec 15 17:13:53 ls Dec 15 17:14:01 qgil: Well, IMHO it is all pretty artificial anyway, but given that it is clearly not Meego, the logical (albeit imperfect) solution seems to call it Maemo6 or something Dec 15 17:14:01 . .. Dec 15 17:14:13 then it will be either compliant products or anybody going through an explicit permission path to the TSG Dec 15 17:14:17 Nokia owns the trademark, etc Dec 15 17:14:34 They don't want to call it Maemo, because it'll scare off developers Dec 15 17:14:44 alterego: true Dec 15 17:14:53 qgil: :nod: i was just wondering about the elephant in the room which is for example linpus meego :) compliance will be good to finally get out the door Dec 15 17:15:31 RST38h: this "clearly not MeeGo" is clear to platform developers, less clear to app developers (assuming the API compatibility is there), even less clear to users, media, etc. But we have discussed this many times and there is nothing really to be discussed before you see Harmattan under the light Dec 15 17:15:51 * alterego agrees Dec 15 17:16:00 Stskeeps: afaik the LF is actually asking Linpus about this Dec 15 17:16:06 qgil: ah, good Dec 15 17:16:12 I'm kind of bored of this conversation. I think I've been involved in similar ones more than 20 times now :) Dec 15 17:16:34 Maybe I should keep a tally Dec 15 17:16:41 there was a bit of a 'so why are you saying no to these guys in public and doing nothing about X' atmosphere, but i guess transparency in this area is difficult :) Dec 15 17:17:05 * RST38h stiffles the question "WHEN?" =) Dec 15 17:17:24 RST38h, never. Dec 15 17:17:25 RST38h: each time you ask the question the release is postponed a week Dec 15 17:17:26 ;) Dec 15 17:17:27 Stskeeps: there is this assumption that the LF automatically finds ok any commercial product wearing the MeeGo brand Dec 15 17:17:41 Stskeeps: I know. And a Finnish kitten dies. Dec 15 17:17:49 qgil: ah, we know from suse meego tsg meeting item that's not true :P Dec 15 17:17:52 Stskeeps: in case of doubt file a bug under Policy/Trademark and let the LF find oiut and decide whjat to do Dec 15 17:18:01 RST38h, it's actually a ploy to keep developers away from iOS and Android in the short term. Then the "next thing" will be announced with Symbian. :P Dec 15 17:18:04 qgil: :nod: Dec 15 17:18:19 The only thing that confuses me is, when mentioned the first MeeGo Nokia device will be Q1? 2011, is that "MeeGo/Harmatten" or a 100% MeeGo Handset based device. Dec 15 17:18:28 I expect the former and the latter to follow Q3 .. Dec 15 17:18:36 * javispedro jiggles Dec 15 17:18:58 alterego, former. Dec 15 17:18:58 ok, back to hacing.. Dec 15 17:18:59 +k Dec 15 17:19:01 ls Dec 15 17:19:01 GAN900: Judging from the Net discussions and blogs, it rather looks like a ploy to migrate developers/users from Nokia to Android =( Dec 15 17:19:20 RST38h, well, it may have backfired a little. *g*. Dec 15 17:19:27 IRC: ls: command not found Dec 15 17:19:41 alterego: and "the latter to follow Q3" sounds overly optimistic Dec 15 17:19:59 Ponies and rainbows optimistic. Dec 15 17:20:38 Maybe, Dec 15 17:20:52 I don't see why it's _that_ optimistic tbh Dec 15 17:21:25 its probably just real secret and will come out in time for christmas Dec 15 17:22:12 alterego, consider history. Dec 15 17:22:39 berndhs, secret enough for them to announce 2011 as the "more information" timeframe in Dublin? Dec 15 17:23:02 right, that's just to confuse the competition :) Dec 15 17:23:15 hell yeah, the device will be an atom handset. Dec 15 17:23:22 javispedro: no no, powerpc Dec 15 17:23:40 IBM Cell actually Dec 15 17:23:42 I was banking on mips .. Dec 15 17:25:01 re: npm, looks like you hit the same problem I got too :P -- actually the RPM's aren't corrupt, they're "empty" as if just a header was output Dec 15 17:25:30 npm, regardless, they don't install Dec 15 17:26:04 Stskeeps, ah, nostalgia. Dec 15 17:26:11 (for others wanting to know what this is about: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-sdk/2010-December/000749.html ) Dec 15 17:27:15 it turns out phonon has the same problem. i'm testing the fix right now, soon as i can boot successfully again :-) Dec 15 17:32:43 i'm developing a rather larger "cargo cult" of ways of getting meego to boot successfully on n900. i'm going to have to get rid of a few items soon Dec 15 17:33:17 * javispedro ponders adding 2GiB to the ideapad Dec 15 17:33:23 Onlyone method is required, but it should not involve inserting/yanking the SD card Dec 15 17:38:39 is there a mirror for the weekly images on repo.meego.com? Dec 15 17:38:47 well there's the trick of getting the xterm on the console.... that's a good cargo-cult item to hold onto... Dec 15 17:39:43 start the "setup app" rotate the handset vertical so the setup app rotates, then quit setup app. the "main screen" will be in vertical mode and when you click menu, "xterm" is one of the items that was previously off-screen Dec 15 17:59:13 I'm trying to track down some of the meego source code, specifically does anyone know where the source to libsysinfo and libcellular-qt ? Dec 15 17:59:40 I don't see anything on repo.meego.com (looking in 1.1 and 1.1.80) as well as on gitorious Dec 15 18:01:08 juliank: just answered your email fwiw - I hope the issues are resolved and ylou can continue your work Dec 15 18:02:17 qgil: Saw and read it Dec 15 18:51:24 http://fossdotin.blogspot.com/2010/12/topic-backuprestore-for-meego.html Dec 15 18:52:12 one of the talks at the meego bangalore meeting Dec 15 18:52:17 http://fossdotin.blogspot.com/2010/12/topics-and-overview.html (rest here) Dec 15 18:57:13 Ah, finally: http://wiki.meego.com/Marketing/Media_Team Dec 15 18:57:39 and now, time to switch off :) Dec 15 18:57:52 anybody interested in contributing to the media team, see you here tomorrow Dec 15 18:58:12 looks good! Dec 15 19:34:38 TSG meeting starts in 30 minutes in #meego-meeting: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings Dec 15 19:50:59 kyb3R: you're having a meego.fi meeting at midnight finnish time? brave.. Dec 15 19:51:00 :P Dec 15 19:52:14 (22:00 UTC..) Dec 15 19:53:22 ehehe Dec 15 19:55:06 arjan: thanks for proposing a flexible approach (might come in handy in the future for various situations as well, i guess) Dec 15 19:55:34 it's a tough balance Dec 15 19:55:37 it is Dec 15 19:55:44 because we want to be able to use newer features in meego when Linux gets them Dec 15 19:55:50 (assuming the feature is interesting for our targets) Dec 15 19:55:54 i'm technically inclined towards a baseline matching what meego needs Dec 15 19:56:09 yeah that's what we had so far Dec 15 19:56:16 problem is not all hw can follow that fast Dec 15 19:56:16 :nod: with kernel-headers and all Dec 15 19:56:44 like the AOS thing Dec 15 19:57:03 there is a point, that it's sometimes easier to backport those 4 or 5 key features a kernel or two, rather than rebasing Dec 15 19:57:29 :nod: Dec 15 19:57:42 anyway the new way the thing is worded should be more flexible while still having the same final intent ("compatible enough" kernel so we and apps can use new features) Dec 15 19:57:44 arjan: I hope I managed to get across that I'm not after blocking the main meego things but want to see the situation clearly defined for small hardware adaptation communities Dec 15 19:58:01 dm8tbr: oh I understand your points Dec 15 19:58:09 good :) Dec 15 19:58:20 I think you understand mine as well Dec 15 19:58:25 absolutely Dec 15 19:58:31 so hopefully the new proposal wording adds enough flexibility Dec 15 19:58:40 I tried to actually not argue those :) Dec 15 19:58:55 the whole point of the porposal is to allow someone to not HAVE to follow the meego pace Dec 15 19:59:04 while allowing us to use newer features once they become available Dec 15 19:59:14 which is obviously good Dec 15 19:59:16 (and have some form of compliance/compatibility for app writers) Dec 15 20:00:03 dm8tbr: it's a tough balance in general; for me app compatibiilty while allowing innovation are important things Dec 15 20:00:11 (those are the reasons MeeGo exists in the first place) Dec 15 20:00:25 just need to find a way to also allow the smaller hw communities/etc Dec 15 20:00:27 I really hope we can find a way to integrate those small hardware adaptation communities. after all that's where the big companies draw a lot of skilled people from Dec 15 20:00:30 I hope the proposal achieves that now Dec 15 20:00:40 TSG meeting in 2 minutes or so in #meego-meeting Dec 15 20:00:46 dm8tbr: so now with this proposal you can have your own kernel in OBS and get it going Dec 15 20:00:57 and once it's compatible "enough" it can even be part of the official Meego.com releases Dec 15 20:01:11 arjan: which indeed would be nice, yes Dec 15 20:01:20 without being stepped on by other hw communities at the same time Dec 15 20:01:26 s/same time/all the time/ Dec 15 20:01:26 arjan meant: without being stepped on by other hw communities at the all the time Dec 15 20:04:25 arjan: "one of the MeeGo OBS instances" ? I haven't seen that discussed Dec 15 20:05:04 lbt: I don't care if it's community obs or the other one Dec 15 20:05:15 wanted to leave that open so that if anything changes tehre we don't need a new TSG decision Dec 15 20:05:40 OK Dec 15 20:11:11 DawnFoster: is amy on irc? Dec 15 20:11:29 timeless_mbp: just before you joined it was stated she's at the next conference site Dec 15 20:11:32 timeless_mbp: let me dig up backlog for you Dec 15 20:11:56 timeless_mbp: http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-12-15-19.58.log.txt Dec 15 20:12:35 timeless_mbp: She is sometimes - she was in the last community office meeting in IRC, and she's been in a few of the TSG meetings, too Dec 15 20:13:15 queue+ to ask some questions about items in the current #topic proposal Dec 15 20:13:43 "board"? Dec 15 20:15:41 timeless_mbp: generic terminology for a specified set of hardware :) Dec 15 20:16:06 lbt: as opposed to a board of governors Dec 15 20:16:15 yes Dec 15 20:17:12 someone ping me when it's my turn Dec 15 20:17:25 QUESTION [1 of N]: what actually enforces the security promise in point 5? there doesn't appear to be a sanction method Dec 15 20:17:57 timeless_mbp: go :) Dec 15 20:18:13 * Stskeeps assumes that's done as with all meego stuff, if you don't follow rules, you get dropped.. Dec 15 20:18:33 since it's a loose policy maybe there should be 'subject to the interpretation of the MeeGo architect' Dec 15 20:19:43 (good that it's loose though) Dec 15 20:23:00 lovely, i have a stuck build log Dec 15 20:23:04 job too Dec 15 20:23:06 although it is odd that we have such a loose 'laissez faire' policy for the kernel and yet a tight "letter of the law" policy on the name... Dec 15 20:24:37 lcuk: =~ s/its/it's/ Dec 15 20:24:53 timing is a big issue for development, yeah Dec 15 20:25:49 timeless_mbp, I will think on next time I need it \o Dec 15 20:26:22 DawnFoster: #action ;-) Dec 15 20:26:58 lcuk: read this http://garyes.stormloader.com/its.html or timeless_mbp will haunt you Dec 15 20:27:07 arjan: not going to ask this in the meeting, but we don't seem to be saying anything about kernel ABI, like ioctls and such.. Dec 15 20:27:26 thanks lbt \o Dec 15 20:27:33 lcuk: hehe Dec 15 20:27:48 http://eloquentscience.com/2010/04/bob-the-angry-flower-its-vs-its/ Dec 15 20:29:54 arjan: sorry, meant to post in here Dec 15 20:30:11 Stskeeps: it does actually but worded as "user visible features" :) Dec 15 20:30:38 timeless_mbp, regarding auto adding features, in the inverse case, automatically depending on things by default rather than by hard requirement also happens too often. Dec 15 20:30:44 arjan: how hard is that to track going forwards? Dec 15 20:30:56 ? Dec 15 20:30:58 but the first glimpse of whether they are required or accidental comes when someone tries to port code backwards. Dec 15 20:31:09 yeah, since most packages auto enable features if they find them... Dec 15 20:31:34 sorry isn't that the same thing? Dec 15 20:31:55 thanks DawnFoster Dec 15 20:31:56 mmm not sure that's true though Dec 15 20:31:56 timeless_mbp, yes and no Dec 15 20:32:02 lbt mentioned about making a list Dec 15 20:32:23 and it starts empty today Dec 15 20:32:28 a list is hard Dec 15 20:32:37 do you need to document everything from 2.6.28 forward? Dec 15 20:32:40 or only from 2.6.35 Dec 15 20:32:41 no Dec 15 20:32:41 etc Dec 15 20:32:46 2.6.36 Dec 15 20:33:09 DawnFoster, I like that ceveat, it could realistically become part of standard definition of specification agreements. Dec 15 20:33:10 I'm more in favor of a joint "what we encountered in practice" wiki that's shared between maintainers of these adaptation kernels Dec 15 20:33:18 joined learnings kind of thing but pragmatic Dec 15 20:33:21 seems reasonable arjan Dec 15 20:34:07 OK - so letting adaptation kernel maintainers report breakage against 'in-range' kernels Dec 15 20:34:12 and documenting that Dec 15 20:34:20 and share backports even Dec 15 20:34:54 the idea really was some mechanism to support that - a wiki is good Dec 15 20:35:32 sometimes developers will see a new kernel feature and decide to support it ... how to encourage them to communicate that? Dec 15 20:35:38 arjan: one thing: is the idea still for reference kernel patches and adaptation kernel patches to be mailed to meego-devel and reviewed there? Dec 15 20:35:47 err Dec 15 20:35:48 meego-kernel Dec 15 20:35:59 Stskeeps: reference yes Dec 15 20:36:07 adaptation I'm fine with a per adaptation/board list as well Dec 15 20:36:15 ok Dec 15 20:36:31 if there's a well functional porting team... we should just leverage that and let them do their most efficient thing Dec 15 20:37:11 which unlikely is meego-kernel but a per board/platform kind of list Dec 15 20:38:42 I would like to port meego sdk to Gentoo linux. Who's the best person to talk to about it? Dec 15 20:39:04 kyb3R: better discussed in here Dec 15 20:39:22 kyb3R: i personally see no problem as long as you don't conflict with other meetings going on :) Dec 15 20:39:41 Stskeeps: Should we have n900 mailing list for patches? Dec 15 20:40:00 there's a wiki page for scheduling and explaining policy Dec 15 20:41:16 ile_: can you use the meego-handset mailing list, instead? Dec 15 20:41:38 i'd rather piggyback on meego-kernel as we'd utterly destroy meego-handset with all the patches :) Dec 15 20:41:52 so what's tomorrow's meeting that i'm supposed to ask those questions about camera/video capture? Dec 15 20:42:10 npm: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Meetings Dec 15 20:42:21 wow, a TSG meeting that ends *early* - sweet! Dec 15 20:42:41 Christmas is coming early Dec 15 20:42:42 ile_: and determine a prefix to use or something like [N900] or something.. Dec 15 20:42:46 npm but put it in AOB section or make detailed proposal for next week Dec 15 20:42:52 but time to sleep for me, meeting tomorrow.. Dec 15 20:42:53 bbl Dec 15 20:43:06 I agree with Stskeeps - m-kernel rather than m-handset Dec 15 20:43:23 Stskeeps: the URL doesn't say much about the meeting Dec 15 20:43:29 Yep, prefixing would be good idea Dec 15 20:43:38 npm agreed Dec 15 20:43:56 npm: scroll down Dec 15 20:43:58 if they're kernel patches, meego-kernel is definitely the place Dec 15 20:46:09 DawnFoster: are you adding new blog feeds to the planet? And related to that I added qa-tools team blog to the candidates list without a link to meego.com user profile. I hope that's ok.. Dec 15 20:46:48 timoph: I think Henri is adding them to the new planet software, which should replace the existing one shortly (a few more bugs to work out) Dec 15 20:47:18 in general I wonder how to get a blog (like mine :-P) onto the meego planet. do we have guidelines somewhere? Dec 15 20:47:35 andre__: http://wiki.meego.com/Planet.meego.com Dec 15 20:47:39 but that's probably something for after the new planet software has been deployed Dec 15 20:47:45 DawnFoster: thanks Dec 15 20:47:49 heh. yay for my search skills :-) Dec 15 20:48:03 :) Dec 15 20:48:41 ~seen bergie Dec 15 20:48:47 bergie <~bergie@dsl-hkibrasgw2-fef3de00-234.dhcp.inet.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 20d 2h 43m 20s ago, saying: 'lcuk: sure... http://www.dopplr.com/traveller/bergie'. Dec 15 20:51:44 andre__: no, it's active now, go ahead and add your blog to the Candidates section Dec 15 20:52:40 o Dec 15 20:52:47 done. thanks :) Dec 15 20:53:36 hey vivijim :) Dec 15 20:53:49 * lbt is guessing OBS access ? Dec 15 20:54:00 lbt: hi! exactly ;) Dec 15 20:54:04 :) Dec 15 20:54:15 so ... quick question : what do you plan to do... Dec 15 20:54:46 open source app writing/porting? Dec 15 20:56:57 * lbt wanders off to do some work ... ping me when you're back vivijim Dec 15 20:57:37 lbt: well, I'm interested in writting, porting, testing and everything else... I'm currently working for Nokia in a performance team and I need to help every test and port to Meego... Dec 15 20:58:16 ah... so do you want the community OBS or the core OBS ? Dec 15 21:01:23 lbt: I didn't know about the core obs... but if possible I'd get both... in my daily work I have to be involved with a bit of everything Dec 15 21:01:57 OK -what's your meego.com account Dec 15 21:02:18 lbt: vivijim Dec 15 21:02:41 done Dec 15 21:03:16 the community OBS only has 3 workers at the moment so keep that in mind :) Dec 15 21:04:11 Thank you very much! I will! ;) Dec 15 21:05:45 lbt: btw, any estimate when we'll see boss up and running? (been hearing that question a lot lately) Dec 15 21:06:27 yeah.... "2010" Dec 15 21:06:35 :) Dec 15 21:07:06 what are you hoping to do with it? Dec 15 21:07:09 lbt, you are a bit late :P its 21:00 now Dec 15 21:07:19 (and I assume you mean community) Dec 15 21:07:53 dunno if it's any use for the community Dec 15 21:07:54 * lbt looks for a kipper and eyes lcuk... Dec 15 21:08:15 lbt: are you keeping a tally on "what people plan to do with it?" Dec 15 21:08:17 you'd think the core guys would talk to me about BOSS ... but hey Dec 15 21:08:22 ali1234: yes Dec 15 21:08:28 you might now already that we're running nightly tests in ots.meego.com Dec 15 21:08:42 lbt: cool, when will we see some report on the results? Dec 15 21:09:10 ali1234: mainly interested for future design/development priorities Dec 15 21:09:20 timoph: no, didn't realise Dec 15 21:09:25 I'm building images for that on my test server.. Dec 15 21:09:44 I know Adam is setting up the IMG workers 'soon' Dec 15 21:09:54 and that needs a BOSS setup Dec 15 21:10:33 yep. I'm using a 7 line shell script to do boss' job :) Dec 15 21:11:04 well, not the whole job.. Dec 15 21:11:15 doesn't surprise me Dec 15 21:11:20 http://ots.meego.com/logger/view/ Dec 15 21:11:33 BOSS is essentially a shell-script type system Dec 15 21:11:36 well, that doesn't really answer my question... Dec 15 21:11:49 ali1234: "you won't" :) Dec 15 21:12:11 that bad huh? Dec 15 21:12:46 we're still waiting to be able to automatically send results to qa-reports.m.c from ots Dec 15 21:12:47 no... just not planning on writing a report. We'll be doing some work on making it easier to "get running" Dec 15 21:13:00 how about at least a pie chart or something? Dec 15 21:13:51 can anyone tell me, where can I get md5_shaX-obsd-201011.tar.gz ? Dec 15 21:14:04 ali1234: (> Dec 15 21:14:06 happy? Dec 15 21:14:17 :) Dec 15 21:14:36 not really, you didn't label it Dec 15 21:17:01 i'm just curious what is the relative proportion of people porting existing open source apps/writing original open source meego apps/just need something to kickstart their own OBS for closed development/didn't know the difference between community and core OBS Dec 15 21:20:35 that actually would be fun to know Dec 15 21:20:41 ah... those questions Dec 15 21:23:13 MohammadAG: nah, OBS is OK here Dec 15 21:23:29 cool :) Dec 15 21:23:45 lbt, do OBS builds go to a public repo, or can builds be private? Dec 15 21:24:09 (by private, I mean sources are available for everyone who checks the page, but don't go in the main repos) Dec 15 21:24:47 you can choose not to "publish" a binary package Dec 15 21:25:01 MohammadAG: that's default for your account in the community obs Dec 15 21:25:02 but nothing is "private" on the community OBS Dec 15 21:25:19 private as in personal :) Dec 15 21:25:24 lbt, and it's open to everyone right? Dec 15 21:25:29 lbt: how's the fremantle obs going? :) Dec 15 21:25:30 alterego, thanks :) Dec 15 21:25:36 also... you will build in your 'home' area Dec 15 21:25:46 and eventually promote to "Extras" Dec 15 21:25:55 when it's in your home you have a PPA Dec 15 21:25:57 oh so it's not like the current builder for maemo Dec 15 21:26:06 No, Dec 15 21:26:07 no, it's a bit different Dec 15 21:26:14 It's kind of cooler :) Dec 15 21:26:24 everyone has their own personal 'Extras Devel' Dec 15 21:26:26 Kind of like launchpad for ubuntu I guess Dec 15 21:26:36 * MohammadAG remembers when X-Fade showed him live builds Dec 15 21:26:48 lbt, and it's open to anyone with a meego.com account right? Dec 15 21:27:42 * MohammadAG reads wiki Dec 15 21:28:13 MohammadAG: yes Dec 15 21:28:17 want to be enabled? Dec 15 21:28:24 I thought I did you Dec 15 21:28:28 kinky Dec 15 21:28:33 heh Dec 15 21:28:54 alterego, very o_O Dec 15 21:29:02 lbt, can't remember tbh :) Dec 15 21:29:10 your meego.com acc Dec 15 21:29:14 Try logging in with your meego.com accout Dec 15 21:29:15 lbt, I think my account is mohammad7410 Dec 15 21:29:17 ~account Dec 15 21:29:26 done Dec 15 21:29:36 it wasn't enabled Dec 15 21:29:43 :) Dec 15 21:29:49 He's very efficient ^.^ Dec 15 21:29:49 I think I had a fremantle OBS account Dec 15 21:29:53 lbt, thanks :) Dec 15 21:30:14 who said fremantle... it's not moving right now Dec 15 21:30:26 Oh :( Dec 15 21:30:52 Really looking forward to that. Dec 15 21:31:06 lbt, there was one, I'm sure I had an account that's OBS related and not for MeeGo/openSUSE :) Dec 15 21:31:07 need time Dec 15 21:31:14 Especially if we get a Harmattan OBS too ;) Dec 15 21:31:18 there is a maemo OBS Dec 15 21:31:24 and it has fremantle Dec 15 21:31:29 and you can have an account Dec 15 21:31:38 but it's old meego Dec 15 21:31:48 No, I want it for integration with meego development. Dec 15 21:32:05 yep Dec 15 21:32:09 For cross-dev, it'd be cool if you could make a Symbian obs system too. Though that is not trivial. Dec 15 21:32:18 are OBS builds done in threads? i.e, do I delay other builds if say, I sent a kernel source to it? Dec 15 21:32:34 * lbt crawls back from the floor Dec 15 21:32:54 alterego, I have a better suggestion, pull the plug on Symbian ;) Dec 15 21:32:58 MohammadAG: you do Dec 15 21:33:12 it's not threads.... each build gets a Xen VM Dec 15 21:33:13 hmm Dec 15 21:33:44 Heh Dec 15 21:33:47 so all accounts share the same server? Dec 15 21:34:15 pool of servers... yes Dec 15 21:34:23 the VMs are recreated each time Dec 15 21:34:54 oh, similar to each build on the current maemo builder then Dec 15 21:35:23 better look into a local OBS, going to experiment with kernels :P Dec 15 21:35:46 no need Dec 15 21:35:54 'osc build' does what you want Dec 15 21:36:18 it essentially creates the same 'worker' on your desktop that the OBS would use Dec 15 21:42:13 especially if you use virtual machine build way Dec 15 21:46:42 well, locally it uses a chroot ... same basic principle and 99.9% good enough Dec 15 21:47:20 true Dec 15 21:47:41 it would be nice with awesome with lxc integration Dec 15 21:47:59 yeah, been mentioned Dec 15 21:48:18 it's all opensource.... feel free to dive in (that's how I got started) Dec 15 22:05:46 alterego, there is remote compiler for qt-creator to compiler for symbian or maemo without sdk Dec 15 22:06:12 I know Dec 15 22:06:42 any idea where can I get md5_shaX-obsd-201011.tar.gz? Dec 15 22:32:12 MohammadAG: you don't need OBS to do kernel builds, it's one of the easiest things to cross compile Dec 15 22:32:27 you don't even need a full toolchain Dec 15 22:33:59 I need rpm support to get a proper patch set, I'm not sure who thought of that system for distributing patches Dec 15 22:34:32 i don't even understand what that means Dec 15 22:34:44 a patch set is just... a set of patches Dec 15 22:35:19 And an rpm is just an archive Dec 15 22:35:25 You can decompress with cpio Dec 15 22:35:32 exactly Dec 15 22:35:54 uncompress rpm, apply on your local git repo, git format-patch, send result to mailing list Dec 15 22:36:52 I can't find an rpm archive, I need to make one Dec 15 22:37:43 well, this is why i hate packaging Dec 15 22:37:57 it always ends up being much harder than actually writing the program in the first place Dec 15 22:38:03 * MohammadAG hates RPM Dec 15 22:38:29 My build of meego-handset-video isn't outputting debug information -_- Dec 15 22:40:42 * leinir finds it odd that people can find enough emotion to hate a collection of metadata combined with a data archive... Dec 15 22:40:56 i dislike .deb, but hate? That's a bit of a strong term to use for that sort of thing :) Dec 15 22:43:17 They're all bloody annoying :) Dec 15 22:45:26 MohammadAG: fwiw the meego kernel package is also just a quilt patch series Dec 15 22:46:53 leinir, k, I dislike RPM ;) Dec 15 22:47:01 arjan, are we looking at the same sources? Dec 15 22:47:25 * MohammadAG cloned meego-os-base-kernel-source Dec 15 22:52:03 So, how do you make core apps output their qDebug() stuff? Dec 15 22:56:25 Oh, you're kidding .. Dec 15 22:56:35 compile with DEBUG=1? Dec 15 22:56:42 Tried that :P Dec 15 22:59:00 alterego: try s/NO/ in these definitions: QT_NO_WARNING_OUTPUT QT_NO_DEBUG_OUTPUT Dec 15 22:59:30 defines even, too late Dec 15 22:59:39 ;) Dec 15 22:59:45 help Dec 15 22:59:59 there was a meego meeting where hard fp was approved, right? Dec 15 23:00:10 Yes, Dec 15 23:00:45 got a useful url? Dec 15 23:00:47 http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Toolchains/Meetings/Notes20101119 Dec 15 23:00:51 says "Status" Dec 15 23:00:54 which is useless :) Dec 15 23:01:30 Heh Dec 15 23:01:51 Dunno, Stskeeps is the man that seems to do/know everything in regards to that :) Dec 15 23:04:13 lardman: no joy Dec 15 23:05:36 alterego: hmm Dec 15 23:05:46 QT_DEBUG ? Dec 15 23:05:51 Tried that too Dec 15 23:06:04 I don't know then sorry Dec 15 23:08:22 http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-12-01-20.02.html is what i found Dec 15 23:08:25 Heh Dec 15 23:08:30 -output-level debug Dec 15 23:08:35 but the fact that there aren't good links for this does not make me happy Dec 15 23:08:36 Need to call your apps with that -_- Dec 15 23:10:07 Probably because of MApplication and some other bullshit (aka magick). Dec 15 23:12:08 Wow, this app looks really broken :D Dec 15 23:13:36 MohammadAG: if you're talking abuot the meego kernel yeah then very likely we're looking at the same stuff Dec 15 23:14:38 arjan, so do I just apply all patches in kernel-n900.spec? Dec 15 23:21:08 arjan: something needs to be done about the way these pages work Dec 15 23:21:17 it's way too hard for me to find content that i know exists Dec 15 23:21:38 it should be dead simple for me to be able to tell someone that meego 1.2 will use hard fp Dec 15 23:22:05 (by telling, i mean browsing/searching to find the official page that talks about it and has an item linking to the decision) Dec 15 23:22:21 I'll agree there, also rather hard to find e.g. flashing instructions for the N900 or how to setup the image builder Dec 15 23:22:25 (and all work leading up to a decision should really link to the decision so that people who have old links can find it) Dec 15 23:48:38 morning Dec 16 00:05:50 hey Termana Dec 16 00:30:29 cyas Dec 16 01:02:42 finally got the kernel compiled **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 16 02:59:57 2010