**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 27 02:59:57 2010
Dec 27 07:00:08 <toadpole> hey, do you think meego will run fine on this: http://www.samsung.com/in/consumer/pc-peripherals-printer/notebook/netbook/NP-N148-DP05IN/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=specification
Dec 27 07:13:03 <toadpole> everything else should be fine, i'm just a bit iffy on whether the Intel GMA3150 graphics will work with meego
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Dec 27 09:12:03 <xscroll> is there a phone that runs meego yet?
Dec 27 09:22:56 <dm8tbr> xscroll: the n900 is as close as it gets currently. there is no meego designed phone yet though.
Dec 27 09:27:28 <xscroll> dm8tbr: thanks, I'll take a look
Dec 27 10:01:20 <sivang> morning
Dec 27 10:20:57 <TrackerDPP> hello all
Dec 27 10:21:35 <smoku> When you create a .spec for the rpm package there is a "Group:" field there. Where do I find a list of valid values for MeeGo?
Dec 27 10:21:49 <Sage> those are listed in wiki
Dec 27 10:22:35 <smoku> looks like my search-fu is weak, because I couldn't find these in wiki
Dec 27 10:22:40 <Sage> http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Guidelines#Group_Tag
Dec 27 10:23:00 <Sage> there
Dec 27 10:23:21 <smoku> Sage, thanks :)
Dec 27 10:23:44 <Sage> np
Dec 27 10:24:01 <smoku> Sage, looks like the list build into spectacle
Dec 27 10:24:05 <TrackerDPP> i have just paid my N900
Dec 27 10:24:24 <TrackerDPP> and i have need you help to install "NeoPwn" on
Dec 27 10:25:11 <smoku> Sage, I got confused, because meego packages do not comply with this list
Dec 27 10:25:20 <psycho_oreos> lol
Dec 27 10:25:56 <psycho_oreos> TrackerDPP, this is not a support channel for neopwn, its a support channel for meego
Dec 27 10:27:57 <TrackerDPP> ok
Dec 27 10:28:02 <TrackerDPP> thanks
Dec 27 10:29:12 <psycho_oreos> fyi, there's a huge thread on maemo forums about neopwn.. lots of newbs asked there for support so that thread sort of became a support thread. You might want to search it up and have a read
Dec 27 10:31:32 <TrackerDPP> ok
Dec 27 10:43:07 <TrackerDPP> i have need office on my maemo
Dec 27 10:43:10 <TrackerDPP> N900
Dec 27 11:11:26 <tcs-meego> Does the QMediaPlayer use Gstreamer underneath? Can I use QMediaPlayer to open a usb video input device such as /dev/easycap0 ?
Dec 27 11:11:28 <obit_sweden> Anyone knows how the penmount gCal app gets the screen resolution ?
Dec 27 13:42:21 <HoCoK> O_o
Dec 27 13:42:25 <HoCoK> ( MoL0ToV ) tovarish ;D
Dec 27 13:42:35 <CosmoHill> hey vgrade and lbt
Dec 27 13:42:42 <HoCoK> ( _kristianm ) da HUI
Dec 27 13:43:13 <HoCoK> ( CosmoHill ) ti huy
Dec 27 13:43:20 <CosmoHill> HoCoK: what month were you born in?
Dec 27 13:44:15 <HoCoK> ( CosmoHill ) cho???
Dec 27 13:44:32 <CosmoHill> you don't speak English do you?
Dec 27 13:44:47 <HoCoK> ( CosmoHill ) ti tupoi pendos
Dec 27 13:45:29 <HoCoK> ( CosmoHill ) noy
Dec 27 13:46:11 <HoCoK> net
Dec 27 13:46:14 <HoCoK> nine
Dec 27 13:46:16 <HoCoK> suoh
Dec 27 13:46:31 <CosmoHill> HoCoK: DE, FR, GB ?
Dec 27 13:46:39 <HoCoK> USSR
Dec 27 13:46:45 <HoCoK> ;)
Dec 27 13:47:30 <Mat_Matan> HoCoK: co to kurwa ma być? wypierdalaj mi z tym!
Dec 27 13:47:49 <Mat_Matan> HoCoK: en [go away ftom this channel]
Dec 27 13:48:08 <HoCoK> ( Mat_Matan ) cho???
Dec 27 13:48:29 <CosmoHill> Основным языком является английский канал
Dec 27 13:48:35 <Termana> Are you sure that's what you said? Google Translate said something completely different
Dec 27 13:49:05 <Termana> HoCoK, SPREKA ZE ENGLISH IN HERA ONNALE
Dec 27 13:49:07 <CosmoHill> (The main channel language is English)
Dec 27 13:49:12 <Mat_Matan> Termana: i know what i said :P
Dec 27 13:49:32 <HoCoK> ( Termana ) .!.
Dec 27 13:49:46 <Termana> See, he understands what I said perfectly well
Dec 27 13:49:48 <Termana> :P
Dec 27 13:50:14 <CosmoHill> he only has 3 fingers :o
Dec 27 13:50:25 <Leshko> hello all=)
Dec 27 13:50:27 <CosmoHill> hi
Dec 27 13:50:27 <Leshko> i'am Alexey
Dec 27 13:50:31 <Leshko> I from
Dec 27 13:50:31 <HoCoK> blyaaaaaaaa
Dec 27 13:50:33 <Splice> ))
Dec 27 13:50:33 <Leshko> Russia=)
Dec 27 13:50:48 <HoCoK> ( Leshko ) ( Splice ) O EBAT!!!!!!!!!
Dec 27 13:50:48 <CosmoHill> is Splice also from russa?
Dec 27 13:50:48 <Leshko> i'am from Yakutsk city=)
Dec 27 13:50:55 <Leshko> yes=)
Dec 27 13:50:58 <Splice> HoCoK �����
Dec 27 13:51:02 <Leshko> Hocok Splice and I
Dec 27 13:51:03 <CosmoHill> and you both know HoCoK
Dec 27 13:51:04 <Leshko> from
Dec 27 13:51:06 <Leshko> Russia
Dec 27 13:51:08 <Leshko> )
Dec 27 13:51:14 <HoCoK> ( Splice ) ( Leshko ) GO VODKU PIT NA NG!!!!!!!!!
Dec 27 13:51:19 <Termana> Please say everything on one line - stop splitting it up
Dec 27 13:51:29 <Leshko> [..:: Termana ::..]
Dec 27 13:51:30 <Leshko> oy
Dec 27 13:51:31 <HoCoK> ( CosmoHill ) i ti idi na hui
Dec 27 13:51:32 <Leshko> ok ok :)
Dec 27 13:51:36 <Leshko> xxaxa
Dec 27 13:51:36 <Splice> ?
Dec 27 13:51:47 <Leshko> cocute cyku :)
Dec 27 13:51:48 <Splice> oo
Dec 27 13:51:55 <Splice> hahahaa
Dec 27 13:51:56 <Termana> CosmoHill, something tells me we may be eating some spam imported from Russia
Dec 27 13:51:58 <CosmoHill> you are all aware the this channel is English
Dec 27 13:52:11 <Termana> Leshko, Splice: English only please
Dec 27 13:52:18 <Leshko> xmm
Dec 27 13:52:22 <Leshko> i badly
Dec 27 13:52:24 <Leshko> speak
Dec 27 13:52:25 <HoCoK> ( Splice ) alena churka :P
Dec 27 13:52:31 <Leshko> from english language:)
Dec 27 13:52:43 <CosmoHill> Leshko, HoCoK, Splice: http://translate.google.com/#ru|en|
Dec 27 13:52:54 <Leshko> [..:: CosmoHill ::..]
Dec 27 13:53:00 <HoCoK> ( Leshko ) yz tut mass privat sdelal
Dec 27 13:53:04 <Termana> FUCKERS I AM GOING TO FUCKING KICK YOUR ARSES OUT OF THIS CHANNEL IF YOU DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH
Dec 27 13:53:05 <HoCoK> ( Leshko ) ya tut mass privat sdelal
Dec 27 13:53:06 <HoCoK> :D
Dec 27 13:53:07 <Leshko> xaxaxaxaxaxaa
Dec 27 13:53:23 * Termana slaps people with some trout
Dec 27 13:53:26 <Leshko> [..:: Termana ::..]
Dec 27 13:53:27 <X-Fade> Guys. Join #meego-ru or something like that.
Dec 27 13:53:30 <Leshko> ne pizdi cyka
Dec 27 13:53:31 <CosmoHill> Termana: woah, rage much?
Dec 27 13:53:36 <Leshko> ebalo raznesy
Dec 27 13:53:45 <Termana> CosmoHill, I R Mad
Dec 27 13:53:47 <Termana> :p
Dec 27 13:53:49 <Splice> HoCoK sock shut
Dec 27 13:53:58 <HoCoK> ( CosmoHill ) no i stupit ;)
Dec 27 13:54:08 <Leshko> i don't love American Shit!!!
Dec 27 13:54:09 <HoCoK> ( Splice ) cho shut???
Dec 27 13:54:10 <Leshko> xaxaxaxaxa
Dec 27 13:54:10 <Leshko> [..:: HoCoK ::..]
Dec 27 13:54:10 <Splice> dada
Dec 27 13:54:11 <Leshko> [..:: Splice ::..]
Dec 27 13:54:12 <Leshko> xaxaxa
Dec 27 13:54:27 <Splice> �������� ������ �����
Dec 27 13:54:34 <HoCoK> ( Splice ) � �� ��� =(
Dec 27 13:54:34 <Leshko> emm
Dec 27 13:54:37 <Leshko> people
Dec 27 13:54:40 <Splice> sory
Dec 27 13:54:41 <Mat_Matan> someone can add +q for this smamers?
Dec 27 13:54:42 <Leshko> do you like???
Dec 27 13:54:43 <Splice> ))
Dec 27 13:54:46 <Mat_Matan> *spamers
Dec 27 13:54:56 <X-Fade> Guys I'm going to silence some people..
Dec 27 13:55:08 <timoph> good
Dec 27 13:55:18 <X-Fade> Please keep it on topic and in English here.
Dec 27 13:55:32 <Leshko> ���� ������� ����� �� ��������� :)
Dec 27 13:55:35 <Leshko> ok
Dec 27 13:55:36 <Leshko> ok
Dec 27 13:55:42 * Termana facepalms
Dec 27 13:55:50 <Splice> ok
Dec 27 13:55:50 <CosmoHill> X-Fade: can you +s the channel
Dec 27 13:56:33 <Leshko> emm
Dec 27 13:56:44 <X-Fade> CosmoHill: Why would I make it secret? :)
Dec 27 13:56:46 <Leshko> this chanel emm - main chanel in the server ?????
Dec 27 13:56:48 <Leshko> this chanel emm - main chanel in the server ?????
Dec 27 13:57:06 <CosmoHill> do you know what MeeGo is?
Dec 27 13:57:19 <Leshko> ayyyy
Dec 27 13:57:22 <Leshko> people's
Dec 27 13:57:33 <CosmoHill> describe it to me
Dec 27 13:57:45 <Leshko> what ?
Dec 27 13:57:46 <HoCoK> a mi po lokot da zakataem a mi chikago razhuyarim na drova mi budem vodku jrat mi budem bab ebat da potomuchto nam na sovest savest naplevet
Dec 27 13:57:50 <HoCoK> ;D
Dec 27 13:57:51 <Termana> Excuse me while I go kill myself
Dec 27 13:57:56 <Leshko> xaxaxa ;)
Dec 27 13:58:02 <CosmoHill> Termana: but you'll miss the murders
Dec 27 13:58:06 <jonnor> Don't feed the trolls.
Dec 27 13:58:23 <Leshko> emm
Dec 27 13:58:50 <Leshko> you live in the city ?? (i badly speak for english language)
Dec 27 13:59:07 <CosmoHill> http://www.serengeticom.com/blogwp-content/uploads/2008/08/do_not_feed_the_trolls.jpg
Dec 27 13:59:16 <CosmoHill> oh damn  it's not loaded
Dec 27 13:59:17 <kyb3R> CosmoHill: :)
Dec 27 13:59:56 <kyb3R> i saw it somewhere today though
Dec 27 14:00:02 <CosmoHill> :)
Dec 27 14:00:11 <Termana> CosmoHill, 404 :p
Dec 27 14:00:36 <CosmoHill> X-Fade: have you ever done a drive by banning?
Dec 27 14:01:19 <Leshko> girls please go to my private :))))
Dec 27 14:01:19 <Leshko> girls please go to my private :))))
Dec 27 14:01:22 <Leshko> girls please go to my private :))))
Dec 27 14:02:37 <X-Fade> CosmoHill: I try to be fair and give people some time to learn from their mistakes :)
Dec 27 14:02:38 <CosmoHill> You have 0 private messages.
Dec 27 14:02:59 <lbt> hi CosmoHill
Dec 27 14:03:02 <CosmoHill> hey lbt
Dec 27 14:03:05 <v_zaitsev> leshko should write on #qt instead, would at least be on topic (private class, ha ha)
Dec 27 14:03:32 <CosmoHill> you know know that banning and kicking are two separate actions?
Dec 27 14:04:06 <X-Fade> CosmoHill: I only quiet them.
Dec 27 14:04:22 <CosmoHill> you're kinder than I am
Dec 27 14:04:41 <RST38h> X-Fade <== excersizes preventive censorship rather than punitive
Dec 27 14:04:43 <CosmoHill> I used to wonder why the ops before me were so bitter but now I'm finding out >.<
Dec 27 14:04:43 <timoph> yep. I'd've used /kb
Dec 27 14:04:52 <RST38h> Less fun though.
Dec 27 14:05:08 <X-Fade> Well it is much harder to be able to see, but not talk :)
Dec 27 14:05:23 <Termana> X-Fade, you're kidding right? I don't think anything they were doing was on mistake :p
Dec 27 14:05:38 <CosmoHill> you've basically done the IRC equivalent of putting duct tape over their mouths
Dec 27 14:05:47 <timoph> :)
Dec 27 14:05:59 <timoph> macgyver move
Dec 27 14:06:08 <X-Fade> Termana: You can never be sure about things like that. They clearly didn't know irc guidlines and were no native speakers.
Dec 27 14:06:14 <X-Fade> That doesn't make people dumb.
Dec 27 14:06:32 <CosmoHill> leshko seems like a teenager
Dec 27 14:06:33 <X-Fade> They are just uninformed and not able to express themselves properly.
Dec 27 14:07:00 <CosmoHill> a teenager who is currently talking to a 45 year old with a beard
Dec 27 14:17:19 <toadpole> i be able to dual-boot windows 7 / meego on my netbook?
Dec 27 14:17:35 <toadpole> *will
Dec 27 14:20:00 <CosmoHill> http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/blog/2010/11/02/setting-dual-boot-netbook-win-7-meego
Dec 27 14:21:10 <toadpole> fantastic, thanks bro, much appreciated
Dec 27 14:22:16 <CosmoHill> I've added it to the FAQ too
Dec 27 14:25:40 <toadpole> whats the url for the faq?
Dec 27 14:26:07 <CosmoHill> http://wiki.meego.com/index.php?title=FAQ
Dec 27 14:26:22 <CosmoHill> we're having a slight issue with http://wiki.meego.com/FAQ at the moment :/
Dec 27 14:31:29 <CosmoHill> toadpole: Dawn Foster would probably be the person to speak to about  helping MeeGo
Dec 27 14:31:48 <toadpole> ( CosmoHill ): sorry about that
Dec 27 14:35:18 <CosmoHill> it happens
Dec 27 14:41:15 <toadpole> ( CosmoHill ): after writing the netbook image to a USB drive, is it normal for it to not be accessible in windows?
Dec 27 14:41:47 <CosmoHill> yes, the USB image uses BTFS (or something) that Windows can't read
Dec 27 14:42:09 <toadpole> okay, thanks
Dec 27 15:08:00 <John___> good morning
Dec 27 15:08:12 <CosmoHill> salut .o/
Dec 27 15:08:29 <John___> cant wait for n9 to be released in Q2 of 2011
Dec 27 15:09:04 <ShadowJK> Q2 eh?
Dec 27 15:09:19 <CosmoHill> unless you have a time machine you're gonna have to wait
Dec 27 15:10:16 <John___> yes
Dec 27 15:10:17 <leinir> ShadowJK: Mmm, unsubstantiated rumours, aren't they fun? ;)
Dec 27 15:10:22 <John___> q2 of 2011
Dec 27 15:10:46 <John___> it will not be the sister model of nokia n8
Dec 27 15:10:59 <ShadowJK> Actually, Q2 2011 is the answer I give people about my projects too
Dec 27 15:11:26 <ShadowJK> (before that I said Q4 2010 until I realized it was christmas already) :D
Dec 27 15:11:55 <John___> dual core processor with 1ghz and 512mb ram\
Dec 27 15:12:02 <ShadowJK> lol
Dec 27 15:12:22 <ShadowJK> is that a memory bandwidth crippled omap4 then?
Dec 27 15:14:16 <John___> im going to go in my time machine 50 years and buy the nokia nanotechnology
Dec 27 15:16:09 <CosmoHill> you mean were you walk into the Nokia store and they install the implants for you?
Dec 27 15:17:19 <v_zaitsev> too bad the eyephone implant idea is already taken, but maybe there will be earphones and hairphones
Dec 27 15:17:21 <ShadowJK> man, and i was starting to get used to the idea of nokia pupil display contact lenses already (they'd called it retinal display, but apple stole it for their normal lcd) :-(
Dec 27 15:18:54 <John___> so i heard nokia is changing "S" series
Dec 27 15:19:55 <John___> shadow
Dec 27 15:20:02 <John___> you got some secret info?
Dec 27 15:24:29 <GAN900> John___, wrong channel to be rumor mongering.
Dec 27 15:28:30 <John___> so i have the n8 and is there a way i can put meego on it>
Dec 27 15:28:30 <tybollt_> GAN900: is the gfx accel stuff merged w/ what is put up in the daily build dirs?
Dec 27 15:28:56 <GAN900> tybollt_, hell if I know.
Dec 27 15:29:21 <GAN900> John___, short answer: yes. Long answer, how much free time do you have?
Dec 27 15:29:40 <GAN900> You'll have to figure your way past Nokia's signed bootloader.
Dec 27 15:29:45 <lcuk_idea> tybollt_, ask in #meego-arm, but right now I doubt it, just prior to christmas, stskeeps handed the patches over for review after some cleanup.  once reviewed and integrated they will be on testing first
Dec 27 15:30:04 <tybollt_> ty
Dec 27 15:30:56 <lcuk_idea> tybollt_, but if you are OBS savvy, I believe you can find the patches yourself and assist with the review
Dec 27 15:31:04 <lcuk_idea> but as said, ask in #meego-arm
Dec 27 15:31:27 <tybollt_> savy but little time so rather a pre built pkg :)
Dec 27 15:31:39 <tybollt_>  */imgae
Dec 27 15:31:42 <tybollt_> image, too
Dec 27 15:31:44 * lcuk_idea bashing head at following code for a single widget
Dec 27 15:34:48 * lcuk_idea puts head back into MButton 
Dec 27 15:44:24 <lcuk_idea> are bug 25 and bug 10351 related/samecause?
Dec 27 15:44:27 <MeeGoBot> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=25 maj, Medium, ---, yong.y.wang, ASSI, [pinetrail NB] system hang after wake up sometimes (around 10% possibility)
Dec 27 15:44:29 <MeeGoBot> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10351 maj, Medium, ---, yong.y.wang, NEW, [Toshiba NB 305 / Lenovo Ideapad S10-3t] fails to resume from suspend
Dec 27 16:08:17 <lotf> hello
Dec 27 16:08:31 <lotf> I'm trying to locate meego-handset-armv7l-n900-final-mod-1.1.0.0.20101101.3-mmcblk0p.raw.bz2
Dec 27 16:08:46 <lotf> Or whatever is the latest image for n900.
Dec 27 16:09:32 <lotf> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php gives an "An error occurred while processing your request.".
Dec 27 16:14:06 <timoph> try repo.meego.com
Dec 27 16:16:52 <lotf> So http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.80/1.1.80.11.20101221.1/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.1.80.11.20101221.1-mmcblk0p.raw.bz2 would be the correct one?
Dec 27 16:17:26 <lotf> I'm planning to try dual booting with u-boot.
Dec 27 16:19:29 <lotf> Using the tutorial in MeeGo wiki
Dec 27 16:19:43 <lotf> I suppose it's uptodate, other than the name of the image?
Dec 27 16:24:07 <timoph> the name tells that it's an MeeGo 1.2 (1.1.80) development image from 21 December
Dec 27 16:25:57 <lotf> yeah
Dec 27 17:29:44 <CosmoHill> how do I restart the network on meego?
Dec 27 17:34:34 <lcuk_idea> CosmoHill, in netboook, network settings, off and back on again?
Dec 27 17:34:56 <CosmoHill> ah got it
Dec 27 17:35:06 <CosmoHill> in vmware I disconnect and reconnect the "cable"
Dec 27 17:35:07 <lcuk_idea> in handset the configurator isnt working, hmm not needed that but its not working
Dec 27 17:35:12 <lcuk_idea> CosmoHill, ahh
Dec 27 18:00:07 <CosmoHill> lcuk_idea: I'm giving ksplice a go on a VM
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 27 18:49:46 2010
Dec 27 18:49:49 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: anger
Dec 27 18:50:03 <lcuk_idea> :( better to share code and collaborate
Dec 27 18:53:28 <lcuk> ~seen frals
Dec 27 18:53:33 <infobot> frals is currently on #maemo (7d 21h 29m 42s) #meego (7d 21h 29m 42s). Has said a total of 12 messages. Is idling for 45m 28s, last said: 'yeah, bah, he told me to ping him when i was around but now he isnt! typical'.
Dec 27 18:53:39 <frals> oi
Dec 27 18:53:41 <frals> give me a sec
Dec 27 18:53:52 <lcuk> yessir
Dec 27 18:57:50 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, the translation stuff you have been looking at again last few days
Dec 27 18:57:57 <lcuk> is it all valid for qt stuff still?
Dec 27 18:58:08 <timeless_mbp> ?
Dec 27 18:58:11 <lcuk> I know the actual translations aren't, but I mean the principles
Dec 27 18:58:18 <timeless_mbp> it's just an update of the strings
Dec 27 18:58:28 <timeless_mbp> i fixed one bug in the ui's debug set
Dec 27 18:58:30 <lcuk> or are there different gotchas with qt based translation
Dec 27 18:58:39 <timeless_mbp> no, the gotchas are about the same
Dec 27 18:59:06 <timeless_mbp> well
Dec 27 18:59:12 <timeless_mbp> there's a gotcha which should be underlined:
Dec 27 18:59:22 <timeless_mbp> 1. if you define a string for "never", *make* sure it's usable
Dec 27 19:00:44 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, ? what do you mean
Dec 27 19:00:57 <timeless_mbp> modest has two mail plugins w/ sync schedules
Dec 27 19:01:15 <timeless_mbp> both let you select 1..7 days for syncing
Dec 27 19:01:42 <timeless_mbp> but the ui designers specify a string for 0 days
Dec 27 19:02:02 <timeless_mbp> this isn't reachable in either case (mfe, nm), because the dialog doesn't let you close w/ 0 items selected :o
Dec 27 19:02:03 <timeless_mbp> ...
Dec 27 19:02:08 <timeless_mbp> part 2 of this story
Dec 27 19:02:22 <timeless_mbp> the mfe strings show you whichever days you picked
Dec 27 19:02:41 <timeless_mbp> nm shows you 'weekends', 'weekdays', {somedays}, {everyday}
Dec 27 19:03:00 <timeless_mbp> since the two components are providing the *same* list widget to select the *same* thing
Dec 27 19:03:25 <timeless_mbp> one would hope they'd *share* a ui (including none, and magic collapsing days, and well, the ability to show the days in the cases they aren't magically collapsed)
Dec 27 19:03:56 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: did you ever browse through the slides for my dublin talk?
Dec 27 19:04:29 <timeless_mbp> this general problem is covered by a control panel example (voip v. sharing)
Dec 27 19:05:07 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, yeah I looked over a few times as you discussed them
Dec 27 19:05:14 <timeless_mbp> ok
Dec 27 19:05:23 * timeless_mbp should memorize the slide numbers :)
Dec 27 19:05:31 <lcuk> (apologies multiple convos going on, just got here after a hacking day)
Dec 27 19:05:34 <lcuk> lol
Dec 27 19:05:39 <timeless_mbp> yeah, no problem
Dec 27 19:05:46 <timeless_mbp> anyway, the other thing which i didn't really highlight in that talk
Dec 27 19:05:47 <lcuk> web links work as well
Dec 27 19:05:50 <timeless_mbp> but which i should in some talk
Dec 27 19:06:03 <timeless_mbp> is that the best way to test any ui is by working from the error strings
Dec 27 19:06:04 <CosmoHill> I've just realised I'm using 2 computers at once
Dec 27 19:06:07 <CosmoHill> *3
Dec 27 19:06:14 <timeless_mbp> the error strings effectively define the list of outcomes
Dec 27 19:07:03 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, yeah I have seen you do this multiple times
Dec 27 19:07:16 <lcuk> noticing a strange translation then working through to find out how to raise it
Dec 27 19:07:23 <timeless_mbp> yep
Dec 27 19:07:30 <timeless_mbp> it applies just as well to Qt
Dec 27 19:07:36 <timeless_mbp> but it needs to be pounded into people's heads
Dec 27 19:08:01 <timeless_mbp> the other thing which came up is the use of hard coded strings
Dec 27 19:08:13 <timeless_mbp> nm used "%s - %s" in one place to *paste* two strings together
Dec 27 19:08:18 <timeless_mbp> (this is a *big* no-no)
Dec 27 19:08:37 <RST38h> Looks ok.
Dec 27 19:08:53 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: not all languages use '-' as the separator
Dec 27 19:08:59 <timeless_mbp> it wasn't a _("%s - %s")
Dec 27 19:09:06 <timeless_mbp> it was a * "%s - %s" *
Dec 27 19:09:15 <timeless_mbp> the second half of this
Dec 27 19:09:17 <RST38h> I can use any shit as a separator, in any language
Dec 27 19:09:34 <timeless_mbp> separators need to be controlled by the linguist for a given language
Dec 27 19:09:38 <timeless_mbp> not the idiot coding the app
Dec 27 19:09:40 <timeless_mbp> thanks.
Dec 27 19:09:42 <RST38h> And it will still look intelligeable, as long as the separator is not an alphabetic symbol
Dec 27 19:09:48 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: so
Dec 27 19:10:03 <timeless_mbp> the problem is that you might have a language that needs to do %2$s - %1$s
Dec 27 19:10:11 <RST38h> Yes | Vertical Lines | Will | Work | Too
Dec 27 19:10:12 <timeless_mbp> which you can't do if an idiot hard codes the string
Dec 27 19:10:24 <timeless_mbp> repeat after me:
Dec 27 19:10:28 <timeless_mbp> PASTING STRINGS IS BAD
Dec 27 19:10:31 <timeless_mbp> DON'T DO IT
Dec 27 19:10:33 <timeless_mbp> thanks.
Dec 27 19:10:34 <RST38h> That depends on the context where your string has been used.
Dec 27 19:10:55 <RST38h> In most contexts it will be just fine
Dec 27 19:10:59 <timeless_mbp> would someone *please* kick RST38h out of here?
Dec 27 19:11:13 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: you don't deal with enough languages
Dec 27 19:11:20 <timeless_mbp> you're an annoying westerner
Dec 27 19:11:27 <RST38h> Me? A westerner?
Dec 27 19:11:28 <timeless_mbp> please get out of this conversation
Dec 27 19:11:38 <RST38h> So far it looks like a monologue
Dec 27 19:12:21 <lcuk> RST38h, actually it looks like quite an indepth explanation of easy gotchas encountered with translations to me
Dec 27 19:12:21 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: you speak Russian, right?
Dec 27 19:12:29 <RST38h> With the delivering person suggesting to kick his only opponent, too. As a Cthulhu adept, I LOVE that
Dec 27 19:12:33 <timeless_mbp> do you speak Arabic, Farsi, or Hebrew?
Dec 27 19:12:48 <timeless_mbp> In this context, Russian is a Western language
Dec 27 19:12:53 <RST38h> <yawn>
Dec 27 19:13:20 * timeless_mbp chuckles
Dec 27 19:13:36 <RST38h> The point you are missing here is that the "%1 - %2" construct does not have to be related to the language punctuation rules
Dec 27 19:14:03 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: the coders i'm dealing with get this stuff wrong
Dec 27 19:14:07 <RST38h> In fact, most often you will end up with "/dev/mmc1 - 15MB free"
Dec 27 19:14:19 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: which in Arabic or Hebrew might need to be:
Dec 27 19:14:29 <timeless_mbp> EERF 15MB - /dev/mmc1
Dec 27 19:14:33 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, hmm you just highlighted something for me I did not know existed.
Dec 27 19:14:40 <RST38h> It will be just the same in Arabic or Hebrew, thank you very much
Dec 27 19:14:41 <lcuk> printf strings reordering the use of parameters
Dec 27 19:15:09 <RST38h> The technical info crap is universal
Dec 27 19:15:10 <lcuk> RST38h, its just an example.
Dec 27 19:15:16 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: it's ;-)
Dec 27 19:15:31 <RST38h> lcuk: And my point is that the frequency of my example to the frequency oftimeless' example is like 9:1
Dec 27 19:15:41 <lcuk> *facepalm* :P
Dec 27 19:15:48 * lcuk will learn one day.
Dec 27 19:16:05 <RST38h> lcuk: So, 9 times out of 10, "%1 - %2" is perfectly fine.
Dec 27 19:16:36 <lcuk> RST38h, and the one time its not is because the developer treated it like you and required complete reintegration of components based on a silly thing.
Dec 27 19:19:40 <timeless_mbp> ok, next bit
Dec 27 19:19:45 <RST38h> lcuk:I do not translate my software,so it does not apply
Dec 27 19:19:45 <timeless_mbp> don't hard code time formatting string
Dec 27 19:19:47 <timeless_mbp> s
Dec 27 19:20:11 <timeless_mbp> nm has "%I:%M %p" in it
Dec 27 19:20:18 <timeless_mbp> which is wrong for all sorts of reasons
Dec 27 19:20:25 <timeless_mbp> the ui spec (i checked) specifically said "should match the system"
Dec 27 19:20:35 <timeless_mbp> that doesn't mean "please pass some random arbitrary string you hard coded to strftime"
Dec 27 19:20:51 <timeless_mbp> %I is generally wrong if you're using 12hr clocks
Dec 27 19:21:16 <timeless_mbp> (correct is generally %l fwiw, but that's not relevant, the point is that it should have used a localization marker)
Dec 27 19:21:30 <timeless_mbp> (as it happens, it should generally be %P not %p, but...)
Dec 27 19:22:18 <berndhs> there is some stuff that is sort of human readable, but doesn't get translated
Dec 27 19:22:22 <timeless_mbp> http://www.chromium.org/_/rsrc/1220197834922/developers/design-documents/ui-mirroring-infrastructure/explorer_window_he.jpg
Dec 27 19:22:33 <timeless_mbp> berndhs: this isn't one of those cases
Dec 27 19:22:37 <timeless_mbp> it was actually used in the UI
Dec 27 19:22:41 <berndhs> configuration settings, for example
Dec 27 19:22:56 <timeless_mbp> configuration settings should generally not include % anything...
Dec 27 19:23:08 <timeless_mbp> in the cases they do, the user should be able to change them, in which case it isn't an issue
Dec 27 19:23:10 <RST38h> People who "localize" standard Unix command line utilities should be exterminated with extreme prejudice btw
Dec 27 19:23:20 <berndhs> actually, configuration keys is what I should say
Dec 27 19:23:41 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: sp3000 says "you can always use LANG=C"
Dec 27 19:23:42 <berndhs> some configuration does get reported to users
Dec 27 19:24:00 <RST38h> Because I do not (repeat: DO NOT) want to see file creation dates in Russian just because I need xterm to show Russian
Dec 27 19:24:06 <timeless_mbp> berndhs: anyway, this conversation is to raise awareness of ways coders can screw up
Dec 27 19:24:21 <RST38h> LANG=C kills cyrillic support in xterm
Dec 27 19:24:29 <berndhs> oh sure, that type of reminder is useful
Dec 27 19:24:47 <berndhs> I just also remind that not everything that is user-facing shoudl be translated
Dec 27 19:24:57 <RST38h> LANG=RU (or something similar) enables cyrillics but makes ls print funny dates
Dec 27 19:25:25 <RST38h> screwing a zillion of Unix scripts that rely on ls returning standard english dates
Dec 27 19:25:39 <timeless_mbp> in theory there's LC_NUMERIC= and other stupid things
Dec 27 19:25:43 <timeless_mbp> but the reality is that they don't work
Dec 27 19:25:56 <lcuk> i thought unix had its own proper date format that utilities can output as and be parsed properly
Dec 27 19:25:58 <timeless_mbp> (maemo totally botches them, but they don't work anyway, and even RST38h is pointing out cases where this stuff fails)
Dec 27 19:26:01 <lcuk> for specifically this reason?
Dec 27 19:26:12 <RST38h> Just because some egghead thought that some users MAY have problems memorizing Mon/Tue/Wed/etc
Dec 27 19:26:22 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: sadly RST38h  is right about unix commandlines
Dec 27 19:26:30 <timeless_mbp> some idiots decided that localizing them was a good idea
Dec 27 19:26:37 <timeless_mbp> and the result is disastrous
Dec 27 19:26:45 <timeless_mbp> but let's focus on GUI disasters
Dec 27 19:26:58 <timeless_mbp> (yes, RST38h  and i can agree once in a while)
Dec 27 19:27:01 <lcuk> well yeah, the command line is the UI in htis instance, but unix makes extensive use of processing of it
Dec 27 19:27:06 <lcuk> this ^
Dec 27 19:27:19 * timeless_mbp underlines the G in GUI
Dec 27 19:27:31 <berndhs> yes GUI disasters like saying that an IP address has 4 decimal numeric fields :)
Dec 27 19:27:54 <timeless_mbp> berndhs: i can't remember if this app screwed that up
Dec 27 19:27:57 <RST38h> [state-of-factly] Word "shit" starts with G in Russian. Yiddish too, if you wonder.
Dec 27 19:28:57 <berndhs> GUI here basically means multiple-choice language interface
Dec 27 19:29:06 <RST38h> BTW, a really fun issue to discuss is what happens when your localized string is twice longer than your original LANG=C string and no long fits into your nice GUI element
Dec 27 19:29:26 <timeless_mbp> berndhs: non scripted :)
Dec 27 19:29:38 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: oh
Dec 27 19:29:46 <timeless_mbp> RST38h brings up a point which arose in #maemo
Dec 27 19:29:54 <timeless_mbp> namely localized strings tend to be much longer
Dec 27 19:29:57 <berndhs> also, its not about the Graphical parts of Graphical user interface :)
Dec 27 19:30:02 <lcuk> agreed timeless_mbp
Dec 27 19:30:02 <timeless_mbp> an english string could be e.g. "Dual"
Dec 27 19:30:06 <timeless_mbp> and the finnish string can be um...
Dec 27 19:30:10 <lcuk> I encountered this many times in the past.
Dec 27 19:30:24 <RST38h> The solution is to keep UI in English while providing localized help/documentation
Dec 27 19:30:50 <berndhs> another solution is to use Icons that are misunderstood equally in all locales
Dec 27 19:30:59 <RST38h> Because, let us face it, it is not that hard to remember what "Dual" means.
Dec 27 19:31:04 <timeless_mbp> "Kaksitoimisuus"
Dec 27 19:31:17 <lcuk> the other alternative involves not using fixed size elements and instead using an adaptable layout.
Dec 27 19:31:24 <RST38h> berndhs: Hell no.
Dec 27 19:31:28 <timeless_mbp> oh, while we're at it
Dec 27 19:31:33 <timeless_mbp> "Don't use a FLAG to mean LANGUAGE"
Dec 27 19:31:33 <RST38h> lcuk:Instant fail
Dec 27 19:31:35 <lcuk> berndhs, !!!
Dec 27 19:31:44 <RST38h> lcuk: As your physical screen size (!) is limited.
Dec 27 19:32:03 <timeless_mbp> e.g. the flag of Sweden is not a good idea to mean sv_FI, sv_DK, sv_NO
Dec 27 19:32:09 <RST38h> So, no, adaptable layouts only work to a certain point in mobile devices
Dec 27 19:32:15 <lcuk> RST38h, I used to do dynamic sizing of both element and font to work around issues such as this.
Dec 27 19:32:18 <timeless_mbp> nor is some random British/English/Londonish flag a good idea to mean en_US
Dec 27 19:32:48 <RST38h> lcuk: I am also doing it in the Sliderule. Only works to a point after which the text becomes unreadable.
Dec 27 19:32:50 <timeless_mbp> anyway, in some cases, the right answer is indeed to not localize the ui
Dec 27 19:32:57 <timeless_mbp> and instead provide people with a help guide
Dec 27 19:33:05 <timeless_mbp> e.g. i'd rather the dialpad on a phone not be localized
Dec 27 19:33:23 <timeless_mbp> there's no reasons to add ß to the phone
Dec 27 19:33:28 <RST38h> Actually, phone dialpads NEED to be loclized.
Dec 27 19:33:36 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: really?
Dec 27 19:33:37 <timeless_mbp> *sob*
Dec 27 19:33:38 <berndhs> and don't use google translate expecting to be understood
Dec 27 19:33:41 <RST38h> Yea, timeless, sorry.
Dec 27 19:33:45 <lcuk> RST38h, http://liqbase.net/font_scale_rendering_area_2.png  silly and gone to extreme (viewed through vnc so at 90% scale anyway)
Dec 27 19:34:09 <RST38h> Because it is not just a few umlauts, but the whole 33 different letters for some people.
Dec 27 19:34:30 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: yeah, i know that for hebrew they provide both ABC and hebrew
Dec 27 19:34:36 <timeless_mbp> i suppose that for russian it'd be the same
Dec 27 19:34:50 <RST38h> And Nokia, in fact, localizes dialpads/keypads.
Dec 27 19:35:05 <timeless_mbp> http://www.xda-developers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/fast_dialer_screenshot8.png
Dec 27 19:35:30 <timeless_mbp> for a sample Cyrillic dialpad
Dec 27 19:35:39 <RST38h> More or less, yes
Dec 27 19:35:50 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: did nokia do that for the n900?
Dec 27 19:35:51 <RST38h> Not that I ever use the goddamn thing
Dec 27 19:36:02 <RST38h> Nokia messed upN900 cyrillic keyboard
Dec 27 19:36:08 <RST38h> Same for N97
Dec 27 19:36:09 <timeless_mbp> i don't care about the keyboard
Dec 27 19:36:13 <timeless_mbp> i'm curious about the dialpad
Dec 27 19:36:22 <RST38h> You mean dialpad? Don'tthink so
Dec 27 19:36:26 <timeless_mbp> i mean dialpad
Dec 27 19:36:31 <timeless_mbp> if i mean keyboard, i'll say keyboard!
Dec 27 19:36:37 <RST38h> On the other hand, my locale is set to US English
Dec 27 19:36:41 <timeless_mbp> as for keyboards
Dec 27 19:36:57 <timeless_mbp> we screwed up the keyboards by doing a stupid rotation of 5 blue keys between some layouts
Dec 27 19:37:08 <timeless_mbp> that was just gratuitous damage
Dec 27 19:37:14 <RST38h> You screwed the keyboards by remiving arrow keys
Dec 27 19:37:23 <timeless_mbp> nah
Dec 27 19:37:26 <timeless_mbp> that was different damage
Dec 27 19:37:30 <timeless_mbp> not having enough rows
Dec 27 19:37:36 <RST38h> BTW, someone fixed Russian N900 keyboards, just not sure who
Dec 27 19:37:36 <timeless_mbp> and letting ui designers "solve" the problem
Dec 27 19:37:51 <RST38h> But you CAN buy N900 with the "correct" Russian keyboard nowadays
Dec 27 19:37:56 <timeless_mbp> fwiw, it seems my n900's hardware keylayout has > somewhere
Dec 27 19:38:35 <RST38h> N97 was worse: it was missing cyrillic "B" on its keyboard (usage frequency for B is about the same as in english)
Dec 27 19:38:59 <timeless_mbp> `%^<> on a s d f g
Dec 27 19:39:16 <timeless_mbp> (as blue-shift-<letter>)
Dec 27 19:39:36 <timeless_mbp> so now that i know that, if i can remember it, i really don't need the broken sym button :)
Dec 27 19:39:47 <timeless_mbp> Anyway...
Dec 27 19:39:54 <timeless_mbp> what else was there from this round of stupidity
Dec 27 19:40:35 <timeless_mbp> well, there's the general "labels and values need to agree" thing
Dec 27 19:40:54 <timeless_mbp> you can't have "Download size" as a label with "Full message" and "Message headers" as values
Dec 27 19:41:00 <timeless_mbp> those aren't /sizes/ ....
Dec 27 19:41:39 <lcuk> question about previous size related point.
Dec 27 19:41:39 <timeless_mbp> there's also the "If a UI is going to have 3 instances of the same item and another ui is going to reference *one* of them, you better do something to enable the user to figure out which one"
Dec 27 19:41:43 <timeless_mbp> sure
Dec 27 19:41:56 <timeless_mbp> oh
Dec 27 19:41:58 <timeless_mbp> on sizes
Dec 27 19:42:15 <lcuk> Using this latest example, the label says "Download size" the value says "300mb" (or whatever actual)
Dec 27 19:42:22 <timeless_mbp> good toolkits let localizers define 3 localization strings for a single identifier
Dec 27 19:42:24 <lcuk> during translation you said the strings can get longer
Dec 27 19:42:39 <lcuk> should the developer aim to ensure the Value is overprinted
Dec 27 19:42:43 <lcuk> in case of longer strings
Dec 27 19:43:02 <timeless_mbp> generally speaking stretching the ui is best
Dec 27 19:43:06 <lcuk> and no wiggle room available
Dec 27 19:43:13 <timeless_mbp> redesign.
Dec 27 19:43:20 <timeless_mbp> 300mb might be close to 1/2GB
Dec 27 19:44:07 <lcuk> reasonable, but as we know its not as easy to redesign as to just make sure the Value string sits ontop of the label caption, so the user might see a bit of a cutoff label
Dec 27 19:44:11 <timeless_mbp> where ½ is a glyph you could use if desperate
Dec 27 19:44:16 <lcuk> but still be able to read the quantity
Dec 27 19:44:50 <timeless_mbp> so, are we talking about a single pasted string <Download size (%d)mb> ?
Dec 27 19:44:57 <RST38h> You mean, you would like to force developer into providing three different translations for each application string in each language?
Dec 27 19:45:03 <lcuk> as an example, yes
Dec 27 19:45:07 <timeless_mbp> the ui in question was a two row button which triggers a popup list
Dec 27 19:45:09 <lcuk> but I know of many other places
Dec 27 19:45:18 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: no
Dec 27 19:45:21 <RST38h> Is anyone doing cost/benefit analysis here
Dec 27 19:45:32 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: in theory the toolkit would figure out which string to use
Dec 27 19:45:44 <timeless_mbp> so if a large string doesn't fit, it'd use a smaller one
Dec 27 19:46:05 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, heh, that sort of thing is hard work!
Dec 27 19:46:20 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: my primary job is working on a browser, the core of which is a layout engine
Dec 27 19:46:22 * lcuk has considered fully dynamic space adaptive uis in the past
Dec 27 19:46:24 <timeless_mbp> i'm aware of that
Dec 27 19:46:31 <RST38h> But whoprovides the strings?
Dec 27 19:46:35 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: what is relevant to your case is localization notes
Dec 27 19:46:46 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, yes.
Dec 27 19:46:48 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: ? the coder provides one string (or identifier)
Dec 27 19:47:01 <timeless_mbp> the linguist/translator for a given language provides 1, 2 or 3 strings
Dec 27 19:47:04 <RST38h> Who provides the 3 strings for each message in each language?
Dec 27 19:47:22 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: imagine, Mo, Mon, Monday
Dec 27 19:47:29 <RST38h> Who pays the linguist, if it is an OSS project?
Dec 27 19:47:32 <timeless_mbp> (actually probably M not Mo, but whatever)
Dec 27 19:47:44 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: oddly enough OSS projects do get linguists eventually
Dec 27 19:47:58 <timeless_mbp> visit transifex.net some day
Dec 27 19:48:03 <RST38h> Mghm
Dec 27 19:48:12 <timeless_mbp> or as we're in #meego, try meego.transifex.net
Dec 27 19:48:24 <timeless_mbp> anyway...
Dec 27 19:48:29 <timeless_mbp> on sizing
Dec 27 19:48:45 <timeless_mbp> if your ui is constrained, you need to give a localization note/hint
Dec 27 19:48:51 <timeless_mbp> classically these looked something like:
Dec 27 19:49:09 <timeless_mbp> gr
Dec 27 19:49:24 <timeless_mbp>  /* LOCALIZATION NOTE: foo only has space for 12 letters */
Dec 27 19:49:40 <RST38h> i-letters or w-letters?
Dec 27 19:49:48 <timeless_mbp>  fprintf(file, _("hello %s"), user);
Dec 27 19:50:01 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: the note being as specific as necessary
Dec 27 19:50:03 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, ok, now considering we think towards landscape+portrait, foo should be based on the smaller of those?
Dec 27 19:50:16 <timeless_mbp> in my case the localization note is for a monospaced font :)
Dec 27 19:50:21 <RST38h> AndI guess you are supposed to leave a specific not for each app string?
Dec 27 19:50:35 <RST38h> note
Dec 27 19:50:41 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: if there are constraints for a given string, yes, each one gets its own note
Dec 27 19:50:42 <berndhs> i think the users who demand translations the loudest should pay the linguists
Dec 27 19:51:01 <RST38h> Ok, consider cost/benefit analysis for this fun activity
Dec 27 19:51:07 <timeless_mbp> berndhs: not providing translations is actually a reasonable choice
Dec 27 19:51:17 <timeless_mbp> if the app is important, one of two things will happen:
Dec 27 19:51:21 <timeless_mbp> 1. someone will write a cheat sheet
Dec 27 19:51:26 <timeless_mbp> 2. someone will start localizing
Dec 27 19:51:36 <timeless_mbp> berndhs: but note that we're in #meego
Dec 27 19:51:51 <timeless_mbp> and here we have a couple of companies who will burn money paying for bad translations
Dec 27 19:52:03 <berndhs> so what ? my applications won't be compliant anyway :P
Dec 27 19:52:20 <timeless_mbp> berndhs: can you let me address lcuk 's point? you're just being a troublemaker like RST38h
Dec 27 19:52:36 <berndhs> sure go ahead
Dec 27 19:52:54 <RST38h> Calling people who do not agree with you troublemakers is a well known approach to discussion.
Dec 27 19:53:09 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: generally speaking if you expect two strings to have different constraints, then they need to be different strings
Dec 27 19:53:12 <berndhs> though we ere in #meego, nt in #timeless
Dec 27 19:53:22 <timeless_mbp> you can either use the localization context bit or distinct strings
Dec 27 19:53:38 <timeless_mbp> tr("Hello World", IS_PORTRAIT)
Dec 27 19:53:44 <timeless_mbp> (something like that
Dec 27 19:54:01 <timeless_mbp> berndhs: it's 10pm, i'm doing this because i was asked
Dec 27 19:54:02 <lcuk> RST38h, I notice in OSS, translation "teams" go round and have fun translating.  its like playing WoW and having a 10 man raid, they go onto transifex or some other, and discuss and translate a whole application together into a couple of languages.
Dec 27 19:54:05 <timeless_mbp> if you want me to leave, i'll leave
Dec 27 19:54:13 <timeless_mbp> but please note that when i leave, i rarely return.
Dec 27 19:54:27 <timeless_mbp> lcuk is correct there
Dec 27 19:54:33 <berndhs> timeless_mbp: your input is valuable
Dec 27 19:54:38 <RST38h> lcuk: never got what the fun is there
Dec 27 19:54:47 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: there's pride in it
Dec 27 19:54:48 <timeless_mbp> and thanks
Dec 27 19:54:50 <berndhs> not rather wordy and please dont monopolize the channel
Dec 27 19:54:52 <timeless_mbp> (like tmo thanks but better)
Dec 27 19:54:53 <lcuk> RST38h, sure, but different people like different things.
Dec 27 19:55:17 <timeless_mbp> berndhs: if someone else has other topics, i can go home and watch tv
Dec 27 19:55:19 <RST38h> Offering to leave, why not qualifying to a full-scale fit, is another, subtler, discussion approach.
Dec 27 19:55:26 <timeless_mbp> i'm sitting at a bar and three people want to watch tv here
Dec 27 19:55:49 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: other questions?
Dec 27 19:55:49 <lcuk> berndhs, I reviewed logs earlier, for the last 24 hours this channel has been pretty much dead, this is an important enough discussion for a worldwide linux distribution expecting to have applications released in many places.
Dec 27 19:56:06 <berndhs> alll tight I will shut up
Dec 27 19:56:08 <RST38h> You mean, your N900 is plugged into a TV and runs IRC there?
Dec 27 19:56:47 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, no I didn't think you could supply parameter like PORTRAIT into translation
Dec 27 19:56:53 <timeless_mbp> §i'm @ http://eat.fi/en/helsinki/elmo
Dec 27 19:57:06 <timeless_mbp> each table has its own tv
Dec 27 19:57:13 <timeless_mbp> and i have an mbp using a portion of the table
Dec 27 19:57:47 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: tr() takes 3 arguments
Dec 27 19:57:55 <timeless_mbp> http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.6//qobject.html#tr
Dec 27 19:57:58 <timeless_mbp> QString QObject::tr ( const char * sourceText, const char * disambiguation = 0, int n = -1 )   [static]
Dec 27 19:58:05 <timeless_mbp> i'm talking about the second argument
Dec 27 19:58:11 <timeless_mbp> and i'm not even going to start talking about the third
Dec 27 19:58:23 <timeless_mbp> (which is loads of fun, but nokia avoids that mess "differently")
Dec 27 19:58:45 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: next?
Dec 27 19:59:02 * Debolaz looks around
Dec 27 19:59:51 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, one question that has entered my head MANY times since I started hearing about it:
Dec 27 19:59:58 <lcuk> how do you translate QML
Dec 27 20:00:04 <timeless_mbp> dunno :)
Dec 27 20:00:10 <timeless_mbp> in gecko w/ XUL we use DTDs
Dec 27 20:00:15 <CosmoHill> with a lot of swearing?
Dec 27 20:00:23 <RST38h> You provide different QML script for each language?
Dec 27 20:00:28 <timeless_mbp> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Getting_started_with_extension_development
Dec 27 20:00:40 <RST38h> And this also lets you tinker with layout for each language? :)
Dec 27 20:01:17 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: anyway, w/ gecko we use CSS for two things, theming and localization magic
Dec 27 20:01:17 <lcuk> RST38h, sure, but then you just made it necessary for translation teams to also be designers
Dec 27 20:01:55 <RST38h> Lcuk: No, they can cut&paste
Dec 27 20:02:08 <timeless_mbp> http://doc.trolltech.com/4.7-snapshot/qdeclarativei18n.html
Dec 27 20:02:13 <timeless_mbp>  import QtQuick 1.0
Dec 27 20:02:13 <timeless_mbp>  Rectangle {
Dec 27 20:02:14 <timeless_mbp>      width: 200; height: 200
Dec 27 20:02:14 <timeless_mbp>      Text { text: qsTr("Hello"); anchors.centerIn: parent }
Dec 27 20:02:14 <timeless_mbp>  }
Dec 27 20:02:24 <RST38h> Ok, another magic macro
Dec 27 20:02:37 <timeless_mbp> hey, don't blame me for QML magic
Dec 27 20:02:40 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, good, that pretty much answers it, as long as there is a way :)
Dec 27 20:02:41 <timeless_mbp> i have nothing to do w/ it
Dec 27 20:02:59 <RST38h> I am sorry to be cheeky, but is there *some* system to QML syntax? Or is it completely adhoc?
Dec 27 20:03:00 <lcuk> what did you actually eat today?
Dec 27 20:03:01 <timeless_mbp> i'm going home, there'a a Soccer game starting
Dec 27 20:10:26 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: my guess is adhoc
Dec 27 20:10:55 <timeless_mbp> but... potentially it's an XML dialect written using {}s or alternatively a CSS dialect terribly misconstrued
Dec 27 20:11:16 <timeless_mbp> i've looked at QML snippets and given up in frustration after about 3 lines
Dec 27 20:17:04 <sandst1> afaik the syntax is based on Javascript
Dec 27 20:19:42 <timeless_mbp> sandst1: it isn't really
Dec 27 20:19:46 <timeless_mbp> it might pretend to be
Dec 27 20:19:48 <timeless_mbp> but it really isn't
Dec 27 20:20:08 <sandst1> timeless_mbp: ah ok
Dec 27 20:20:17 <timeless_mbp> if it were JSON it'd use <,> as a delim instead of <;> in random places
Dec 27 20:20:50 <timeless_mbp> it's really closer to css
Dec 27 20:21:04 <timeless_mbp> note that in js, you should have foo: {}, not foo {}
Dec 27 20:21:21 <timeless_mbp> but css doesn't treat <end-of-line> as particularly magical
Dec 27 20:21:28 <timeless_mbp> and it's clear that QML does
Dec 27 20:21:36 <timeless_mbp> which makes it a really crappy cross between JS and CSS
Dec 27 20:22:10 <timeless_mbp> i'm 99% certain json doesn't allow for foo.bar:baz
Dec 27 20:22:24 <timeless_mbp> it'd be foo:{bar:baz}
Dec 27 20:22:32 <Venemo_N900> timeless_mbp: they should have used some sort of xml, like xaml, instead of qml
Dec 27 20:22:42 <timeless_mbp> Venemo_N900: *shrug*
Dec 27 20:22:47 <RST38h> If it is really adhoc, these guys are running into possible problems in 6-12 months fromnow
Dec 27 20:22:48 <sandst1> wow. now that's a cool design
Dec 27 20:23:04 <timeless_mbp> Venemo_N900: XUL and XAML both exist
Dec 27 20:23:09 <RST38h> Once the number of "magical" tricks exceeds the reasonablelimit
Dec 27 20:23:10 <timeless_mbp> heck, they could use VB style ui
Dec 27 20:23:11 <timeless_mbp> or delphi
Dec 27 20:23:28 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: i pity anyone forced to write a parser for this
Dec 27 20:23:40 <timeless_mbp> oh, i'm likely to be one of those poor souls
Dec 27 20:24:22 <timeless_mbp> anyway, i think the syntax is probably more CSS like (not that it is) than JS like
Dec 27 20:25:58 <sandst1> definately more CSS than JS
Dec 27 20:26:13 <RST38h> Ah writing the parser is easy, you do it adhoc
Dec 27 20:32:12 <berndhs> CSS sucks :)
Dec 27 20:33:02 <RST38h> syntax is ok
Dec 27 20:33:26 <RST38h> The way it supplants the original HTML principles sucks
Dec 27 20:33:29 <berndhs> CSS doesnt even have named constants
Dec 27 20:33:40 <flavio> hello, I have installed meego sdk on openSUSE and now I have this problem: when I try to use meego-sdk-qmlviewer I get the following error:
Dec 27 20:33:42 <flavio> /opt/meego/meego-sdk-qt/bin/qmlviewer: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib64/libQtXmlPatterns.so.4: undefined symbol: _ZN14QObjectPrivate15checkWindowRoleEv
Dec 27 20:43:31 <timeless_mbp> [timeless@konigsberg ~]$ c++filt
Dec 27 20:43:31 <timeless_mbp> _ZN14QObjectPrivate15checkWindowRoleEv
Dec 27 20:43:31 <timeless_mbp> QObjectPrivate::checkWindowRole()
Dec 27 20:44:08 <timeless_mbp> http://blog.hartwork.org/?p=175
Dec 27 20:44:32 <timeless_mbp> it sounds like you're pulling in the wrong qt library
Dec 27 20:45:00 <timeless_mbp> http://www.mail-archive.com/qt-creator@trolltech.com/msg01256.html
Dec 27 20:50:00 <flavio> timeless_mbp: I've already tried to adjust the LD_LIBRAY_PATH but it didn't help
Dec 27 20:50:13 <flavio> and this is already done by the meego-sdk-qmlviewer script
Dec 27 20:51:38 <timeless_mbp> flavio: so, you can ldd, strace, or ask ld.so for help
Dec 27 20:52:03 <timeless_mbp> LD_TRACE_LOADED_OBJECTS=1
Dec 27 20:52:06 <timeless_mbp> is one approach
Dec 27 20:52:21 <timeless_mbp> LD_DEBUG=help
Dec 27 20:52:25 <timeless_mbp> is another approach
Dec 27 20:52:36 <timeless_mbp> i'd probably use one of the LD_ things (man ld.so)
Dec 27 20:53:58 <araujo> can somebody access the OBS repos atm?
Dec 27 20:55:53 <berndhs> araujo: the pub or the closed ?
Dec 27 20:56:40 <berndhs> both look like they are up from here
Dec 27 20:57:57 <araujo> berndhs, the internal one, .. mm.. zypper refresh isn't working
Dec 27 20:58:00 <araujo> for me...
Dec 27 20:58:55 <berndhs> looks ok from here, they must have soemthing against you personally
Dec 27 21:02:20 <flavio> timeless_mbp: do you have libQtXmlPatterns.so.4 installed under /opt/meego/meego-sdk-qt4/lib{64} ?
Dec 27 21:02:29 <flavio> because it's missing here
Dec 27 21:03:04 <timeless_mbp> i don't have /opt
Dec 27 21:03:19 <timeless_mbp> oh, i have /opt/local
Dec 27 21:03:25 <timeless_mbp> but nothing else in /opt :)
Dec 27 21:03:53 <flavio> timeless_mbp: doesn't matter. I just wanted to know if you have libQtXmlPatterns.so somewhere under meego installation directory
Dec 27 21:04:34 <lcuk> araujo, which repositories specifically?
Dec 27 21:13:48 <xMOLATZEN_DUx> aupa
Dec 27 21:19:50 <araujo> lcuk, Trunk:Testing
Dec 27 21:19:57 <araujo> lcuk, can you access it?
Dec 27 21:20:25 <lcuk> araujo, just trying to find out which repositories I have enabled
Dec 27 21:20:41 <araujo> zypper repos
Dec 27 21:20:49 <lcuk> but zypper doesnt directly list the repository urls with "zypper repos"
Dec 27 21:20:53 <lcuk> it only gives name and alias ;)
Dec 27 21:21:54 <araujo> check the repos.d/ dir
Dec 27 21:22:13 <CosmoHill> have any of you heard of ksplice?
Dec 27 21:22:41 <araujo> more specifically /etc/zypp/repos.d/
Dec 27 21:23:11 <lcuk> baseurl=http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/handset/repos/ia32/packages/
Dec 27 21:23:17 <lcuk> i have trunk daily for handset
Dec 27 21:23:27 <lcuk> and i updated stuff last night hmm
Dec 27 21:24:48 <araujo> lcuk, can you try this one: http://download.meego.com/live/Trunk:/Testing/standard/
Dec 27 21:25:00 <RST38h> lcuk: how usable is it? =)
Dec 27 21:26:08 <lcuk> RST38h, in some ways its better than netbook
Dec 27 21:26:13 <lcuk> but in others its still immature
Dec 27 21:26:24 <lcuk> i am actually due to file a load of bugs
Dec 27 21:26:36 <lcuk> but was hoping to hear back from some other filed things first
Dec 27 21:27:00 <lcuk> araujo, you mean just replace the url in mine with that one?
Dec 27 21:27:07 <lcuk> or add a new repo for that url
Dec 27 21:27:33 <lcuk> RST38h, netbook UX drives me mad with its alt tab handling
Dec 27 21:27:42 <lcuk> especially when theres multiple windows open
Dec 27 21:27:44 <araujo> lcuk, add that new repo and try it
Dec 27 21:27:50 <araujo> see if it works
Dec 27 21:27:52 <lcuk> ok, a mo
Dec 27 21:28:30 <araujo> and see if you can get the metadata with zypper refresh ...
Dec 27 21:32:06 <lcuk> Retrieving repository 'handset-araujo' metadata [done]
Dec 27 21:32:07 <lcuk> Building repository 'handset-araujo' cache [done]
Dec 27 21:32:23 <lcuk> it spincycled for a few seconds updating
Dec 27 21:32:45 <RST38h> lcuk: The netbook stuff is not very interesting, but the handset/tablet is eagerly awaited by many
Dec 27 21:33:02 <RST38h> lcuk: Is there any progress on the tablet UI, anyway?
Dec 27 21:33:08 <lcuk> sure RST38h - but the core bugs will remain unless they are fixed
Dec 27 21:33:19 <araujo> thanks lcuk !
Dec 27 21:33:21 <araujo> mm..
Dec 27 21:33:24 <lcuk> like adhoc networking and mic input and stuff
Dec 27 21:33:51 <RST38h> Never seen adhoc networking actually work, on anything
Dec 27 21:34:04 <RST38h> Mic input is different though =)
Dec 27 21:34:14 <lcuk> RST38h, I use it all the time on n900/lenovo/desktop
Dec 27 21:34:18 <lcuk> and I have done for ages
Dec 27 21:34:25 <RST38h> lcuky man
Dec 27 21:34:30 <lcuk> for the longest time I had my n810 tlaking to windows desktop with it
Dec 27 21:34:35 <lcuk> because I did not have a router
Dec 27 21:34:50 <lcuk> and I use it whenever I am out and about :)
Dec 27 21:35:05 <lcuk> and obviously it *does* work for some people
Dec 27 21:35:19 <lcuk> because of the whole "free wireless internet" 'virus'
Dec 27 21:35:28 <lcuk> which exists solely because of adhoc
Dec 27 22:25:19 <Iraqi> can i insrall meego on htc desire ?8
Dec 27 22:26:47 <CosmoHill> that depends, can you wait more than 60 seconds for someone to reply?
Dec 27 22:28:46 <Chani> hehehe
Dec 27 22:30:19 <berndhs> CosmoHill: probably did it real fast and doesn't need adivce now
Dec 27 22:30:42 <CosmoHill> whilst I'm in a bad mood ksplice can get knotted, and then fix itself
Dec 27 22:38:42 <CosmoHill> aaaaahhh, I have an exam next week :o
Dec 27 22:57:24 <lbt> now I have 10mins.... what's the best thing to do with my conference lenovo?
Dec 27 22:57:43 <lbt> is there a better image to flash?
Dec 27 23:00:08 <timeless_mbp> heh
Dec 27 23:02:50 <v_zaitsev> i would laugh... if I wasn't guilty of having the laptop sit idly on the corner of my desk for 2 weeks now..
Dec 27 23:03:59 <berndhs> 10 minutes is too short for a beer. Vodka or Tequila maybe, but even that's pushing it.
Dec 27 23:04:17 <Jaffa> lbt: Not sure myself. VKB and chrome-scrolling makes it semi-usable as a tablet for quick email checks
Dec 27 23:04:35 <Jaffa> lbt: I tried Jolicloud, but it's currently sitting on the bookshelf.
Dec 27 23:05:09 <Jaffa> lbt: Battery life's excellent. Dunno where the charger is but it has juice whenever I just want to check something and have no other computer on (or the N900 is too piddly)
Dec 27 23:05:14 <lbt> Jaffa: the cat is now used to using it as a step to climb onto my desktop.... I figured that was a bad sign....
Dec 27 23:05:15 <kaushik> what is ttyMFD2?
Dec 27 23:05:27 <kaushik> I am getting respawning too fast
Dec 27 23:05:42 <kaushik> for echo "s1:235:respawn:/sbin/agetty -L 115200 ttyMFD2 vt100" >> /etc/inittab
Dec 27 23:05:43 <lbt> kaushik: something in /etc/inittab
Dec 27 23:05:48 <Jaffa> lbt: I'd be interested in trying Linpus Tablet on it; but they're touting that for OEMs only.
Dec 27 23:06:12 <timeless_mbp> yeah, the battery life is amazing
Dec 27 23:06:16 <timeless_mbp> i still use it once in a while
Dec 27 23:06:17 <kaushik> lbt: I looked at the inittab and particularly for the id that I am facing
Dec 27 23:06:20 <timeless_mbp> (but it's still w7starter)
Dec 27 23:06:27 <Jaffa> lbt: AFAICT, the best OS for a tablet/netbook hybrid (or really even just a tablet available separately) is Win7.
Dec 27 23:06:51 <Jaffa> lbt: It's just a market segment that FLOSS hasn't looked at; and even MeeGo missed it.
Dec 27 23:06:56 <kaushik> lbt:no luck by commenting it out ... and i am sure abt the baudrate too
Dec 27 23:08:07 <lbt> Jaffa: I think the lack of some really basic stuff (sound) put me off too much
Dec 27 23:08:08 <dm8tbr> Jaffa: the win7 ui is not touch friendly at all.
Dec 27 23:08:36 <lbt> kaushik: ttyMFD2 is a very very odd thing
Dec 27 23:09:12 <lbt> do you have something similar in :  ls /dev/tty*
Dec 27 23:09:30 <kaushik> lbt: no i dnt have ttyMFD2 in /dev
Dec 27 23:09:46 <lbt> kaushik: so... that's not going to do much then :)
Dec 27 23:10:01 <kaushik> so i removed it from inittab .but then I am not getting to login on VT
Dec 27 23:11:06 <lbt> kaushik: what OS? and what are you trying to do?
Dec 27 23:11:42 <kaushik> its meego. I am just trying to boot it on mrst platform
Dec 27 23:12:54 <Jaffa> dm8tbr: Ah, fair enough. So everything sucks.
Dec 27 23:13:40 <lbt> kaushik: normal meego seems to be using mingetty
Dec 27 23:14:21 <kaushik> this one is using agetty
Dec 27 23:14:23 <lbt> ah, there is an agetty
Dec 27 23:14:25 <lbt> yeah
Dec 27 23:14:35 <lbt> so dmesg | grep tty ?
Dec 27 23:15:01 <lbt> may show you if anything found a tty device during boot
Dec 27 23:15:14 <kaushik> I am not able type any command
Dec 27 23:15:25 <kaushik> as I am not able to login from VT
Dec 27 23:15:33 <lbt> ssh?
Dec 27 23:16:00 <kaushik> ssh may not work ..this is very initial work on the hardware
Dec 27 23:16:57 <lbt> and you have no simple tty[0123] ?
Dec 27 23:17:31 <kaushik> yes I have tty0123 and ttyS0
Dec 27 23:17:51 <lbt> OK ... so why are you using ttyMFD2 ?
Dec 27 23:18:25 <lbt> I guess you're playing with the image before inserting it into the device to boot?
Dec 27 23:18:48 <kaushik> Ok .. I removed ttyMFD2..still there is a problem .. I am not able to login to meego or shell
Dec 27 23:19:26 <kaushik> yes .. I have my own image. using kernel-mrst and mrst support
Dec 27 23:20:24 <lbt> so what's in /etc/inittab now ?
Dec 27 23:22:29 <kaushik> there is s0:235:respawn:/sbin/agetty -L 115200 ttyS0 vt100
Dec 27 23:22:46 <kaushik> there is no S1 so it does not give any error
Dec 27 23:23:16 <lbt> so that's trying to start an agetty on the serial port .... yes?
Dec 27 23:23:35 <kaushik> yes
Dec 27 23:24:20 <lbt> and there's nothing like :      1:235:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty1
Dec 27 23:24:47 <kaushik> i have
Dec 27 23:24:49 <kaushik> 1:235:respawn:/sbin/mingetty --noclear tty1
Dec 27 23:24:49 <kaushik> 2:23:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty2
Dec 27 23:24:49 <kaushik> 3:23:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty3
Dec 27 23:24:49 <kaushik> 4:23:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty4
Dec 27 23:24:49 <kaushik> 5:23:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty5
Dec 27 23:24:50 <kaushik> 6:23:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty6
Dec 27 23:24:58 <lbt> use pastie.org ...
Dec 27 23:25:11 <kaushik> Sorry :P
Dec 27 23:25:18 <lbt> OK ... so they should put something on the VTs...
Dec 27 23:25:35 <lbt> ctrl-alt-Fn<N> ???
Dec 27 23:25:56 <lbt> (not sure how much of this you know ;) )
Dec 27 23:26:23 <kaushik> what is ctl-alt-fn?
Dec 27 23:26:50 <kaushik> they put out kernel-msgs but I dnt get to enter username and pwd
Dec 27 23:26:58 <lbt> press crtl + alt + a function key
Dec 27 23:27:24 <lbt> ctrl-alt-Fn1 => VT1
Dec 27 23:27:29 <lbt> ctrl-alt-Fn2 => VT2
Dec 27 23:27:30 <lbt> etc
Dec 27 23:28:02 <kaushik> oh k .. on meego i can not do that ..as the hardware does not have keyb oard ...just a touchscreen
Dec 27 23:28:36 <lbt> hehe
Dec 27 23:29:05 <lbt> usb keyboard?
Dec 27 23:29:28 <kaushik> sadly no :(
Dec 27 23:29:52 <lbt> so.... what were you planning on typing when you got the VT ??????
Dec 27 23:30:23 <lbt> do you have a serial port?
Dec 27 23:30:35 <lbt> and a serial console/terminal
Dec 27 23:30:44 <kaushik> so ... i tried the other image ..which is netbook-mrst image and i get to enter loginname and password??
Dec 27 23:30:54 <kaushik> yes I do have a serial port
Dec 27 23:31:02 <kaushik> and terminal
Dec 27 23:31:30 <lbt> so if you connect it and uncomment the s0 entry  (the one using ttyS0) then you may find that works
Dec 27 23:31:49 <lbt> nb ... do you know what getty is? and how inittab works?
Dec 27 23:32:30 <kaushik> no i dnt know abt it in depth but i can understand the things from getty man page
Dec 27 23:32:48 <kaushik> lbt: i am trying the same thing that u suggested
Dec 27 23:32:48 <lbt> OK - not much needed. getty gives you a login prompt
Dec 27 23:32:53 <kaushik> trying to remove the S0
Dec 27 23:33:07 <lbt> mmm not remove the S0
Dec 27 23:33:16 <lbt> s0:235:respawn:/sbin/agetty -L 115200 ttyS0 vt100
Dec 27 23:34:01 <kaushik> ok. .. u suggesting not to remove it ??
Dec 27 23:34:13 <lbt> no
Dec 27 23:34:16 <lbt> uncomment it
Dec 27 23:34:21 <lbt> you want it active
Dec 27 23:34:40 <lbt> means .... s0 is just a label. 235 runlevels to start in . respawn = rerun if it exits. then the getty command creates the login prompt
Dec 27 23:34:40 <kaushik> yeah I tried to make it active ... but no luck with it
Dec 27 23:35:00 <lbt> so you may as well copy that to
Dec 27 23:35:09 <lbt> s1:235:respawn:/sbin/agetty -L 115200 ttyS1 vt100
Dec 27 23:35:12 <lbt> and have both
Dec 27 23:35:20 <kaushik> ok ..thats a good idea
Dec 27 23:35:26 <lbt> bbiam..... cat wants food :)
Dec 27 23:36:05 <tmzt> does mrst have it's own serial port driver?
Dec 28 00:11:09 <vgrade> hi guys
Dec 28 00:11:19 <vgrade> I have some book vouchers
Dec 28 00:11:27 <vgrade> fancy qt/qml
Dec 28 00:11:37 <vgrade> any recommendations?
Dec 28 00:12:05 <vgrade> seen this one, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-Nokia-Apps-Development-OpenSymbian/dp/1430231777/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1293494691&sr=8-3
Dec 28 00:14:37 <lolloo> thanks dude for this book!
Dec 28 00:14:46 <lolloo> more please if you have info.
Dec 28 00:21:01 * lcuk curses araujo quietly
Dec 28 00:29:23 * lcuk looks at his poor ideapad and shakes head
Dec 28 01:04:54 <araujo> lcuk, did it break? ... zypper upgrading can break the system yes
Dec 28 01:04:55 <araujo> :(
Dec 28 01:05:09 <lcuk> i sorta kinda got some of it back araujo
Dec 28 01:05:27 <lcuk> netbook completely went away until I ran xchat on it
Dec 28 01:05:33 <lcuk> then it magically reappeared
Dec 28 01:05:41 <lcuk> and handset has no clicker or menu
Dec 28 01:05:43 <araujo> :P
Dec 28 01:07:56 <lcuk> araujo, is your zypper managing to update now?
Dec 28 01:09:27 <araujo> lcuk, i cannot even access repos from my n900, I am right now trying to fix it :P
Dec 28 01:10:02 <lcuk> well based on the updates I found ;) maybe its a good thing you can't tonight lol
Dec 28 01:13:00 <ptl> lucky you, I cannot even access my N900.
Dec 28 01:13:08 <lcuk> ptl, ?
Dec 28 01:13:37 <ptl> lcuk: sorry, random rant due to my frustration with my broken N900 :) just ignore me
Dec 28 01:13:50 <lcuk> :( what did you break?
Dec 28 01:15:00 <ptl> I dunno. It just stopped working. When I turn it on, the blue Nokia logo appears and stays there for about one minute, then it turns off. It makes this a dozen times then stops, until I remove the battery and plug it in again. I flashed it dozens of times and still it does not boot.
Dec 28 01:15:09 <ptl> Most probably a deep hardware problem.
Dec 28 01:15:26 <ptl> I even tried the meego rescue boot image.
Dec 28 01:15:33 <ptl> the menu does not appear...
Dec 28 01:15:42 <ptl> although the screen clears
Dec 28 01:17:07 <lcuk> ptl, did you do as you said you would?
Dec 28 01:17:11 <lcuk> 2010-11-13 (Saturday):
Dec 28 01:17:11 <lcuk> * ptl will send his fucked-up N900 to Nokia this monday :(
Dec 28 01:17:24 <ptl> nope
Dec 28 01:17:31 <ptl> I have to find the receipt
Dec 28 01:17:35 <ptl> it's here somewhere
Dec 28 01:17:37 <ptl> :/
Dec 28 01:18:20 <ptl> as I am rather busy with some interview preparations (have been for two months), I can't get the time to search for it
Dec 28 01:19:01 <ptl> If the N9 had been out, I'd have bought it already
Dec 28 01:21:32 <ptl> but if the preparations are worth it (the interview is for a job in Switzerland), I will at least live in Europe, closer to most maemo/meego geeks.
Dec 28 01:48:08 <MohammadAG> is GTK present on the handset images?
Dec 28 01:52:38 <beford> at the moment it is
Dec 28 01:52:48 <beford> the installer is still gtk based at least
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 28 02:59:56 2010