**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 01 02:59:57 2011 Feb 01 08:34:28 Morning, all Feb 01 08:37:50 morn Feb 01 09:08:33 morning jaffa, Stskeeps and all 488 folks \o Feb 01 09:19:23 Stskeeps, do you recall me mentioning seeing someone in the Guinness Brewery @ MeeGoConf who was writing in her journal? Feb 01 09:19:31 no Feb 01 09:19:41 ahh, well I found a photo of her :) Feb 01 09:19:52 too much fake U2 and beer? :P Feb 01 09:19:55 you and a couple of the adaption team are sat on a table just to the side Feb 01 09:35:53 Jaffa, ? mwkn saying Sojourner is another fosdem scheduler? theres only 1 for our N900 and written by wjt @ Collabora :P Feb 01 10:10:03 lcuk: That title is taken directly from his blog-posts title. Feb 01 10:10:48 :D its all good then! Feb 01 11:04:37 Hi evertone. Can anybody explain me on what the contact application on meego is based. I heard that maemo was based on evelution-server, is it the same for meego? Feb 01 11:19:01 Hello! Does anybody know what API's can be used to test the Supplementary services features on top of the Meego api's? Feb 01 11:39:49 will MeeGo support x86_64? Feb 01 11:41:28 Venemo: You mean OS or SDK? Feb 01 11:41:47 X-Fade: actually, both. Feb 01 11:42:34 X-Fade: x64 SDK would be great, and I'm also curios about x64 OS Feb 01 11:42:57 Venemo: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/sdk/host/repos/opensuse/11.3/x86_64/ Feb 01 11:43:14 For the OS itself, no. It is not a target. Feb 01 11:43:44 eh. Feb 01 11:43:47 why not? Feb 01 11:44:18 Because it targets SSSE3 and ARM cpus. Feb 01 11:53:49 X-Fade, not to mention, AMD also joined MeeGo http://www.allaboutmeego.com/news/item/12287_AMD_joins_MeeGo.php Feb 01 11:55:00 lcuk: Sure, but I'm pretty sure they want MeeGo for their mobile chips too. Feb 01 11:55:11 So no 64 bit probably. Feb 01 11:55:27 a great desktop/server OS is likely the least priority for MeeGo Feb 01 12:00:35 Venemo: hi Feb 01 12:00:48 hey hirabayashitaro Feb 01 12:01:07 I know that the handset thing is in a development stage Feb 01 12:02:39 Venemo: and I'm fine with it. The problem is that informations about development, and the managementof the project is in my opinion quite... chaotic Feb 01 12:03:04 hirabayashitaro: chaotic in what sense? Feb 01 12:04:00 Venemo: for example: Meego intentions are to create a standard platform for different devices, but the development of the various parts seems non to be syncronized Feb 01 12:04:33 Venemo: the netbook version has its working built in contacts managment so why handset does not have one Feb 01 12:04:51 hirabayashitaro: it has. Feb 01 12:05:11 hirabayashitaro: here is the app: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-handset-ux/meego-handset-people Feb 01 12:06:42 Venemo: Saw it, but it seems to be at a very embrional phase of development Feb 01 12:07:22 Venemo: And, correct me if I'm wrong, the system for storing information is not the same for the two... Feb 01 12:07:37 hirabayashitaro: oh, yes. Feb 01 12:07:44 hirabayashitaro: that is true Feb 01 12:09:10 X-Fade: ping Feb 01 12:09:28 achipa: pong Feb 01 12:09:40 oops, wrong channel, -> maemo Feb 01 12:10:33 Venemo: so for my "problem" a correct managment of that field should be implemented in evolution-server for maemo, in "don't know what" in netbook and in "some qt stuff backend" for handset Feb 01 12:12:29 Venemo: this is in no way similar to the "we are creating a coherent system" which I can hear in every slideshow-video-cool presentation of meego Feb 01 12:13:17 hirabayashitaro: well you can take it as this: they 'inherited' the netbook ux's stuff from Moblin. and the handset ux counterparts are not in a very good shape to replace them yet. Feb 01 12:13:39 hirabayashitaro: but as I hear, they aspire to use the same backends for all UXes Feb 01 12:15:44 Venemo: Please don't misunderstand me, I'm really enthusiast of the project, but it is frustraiting for me to open millions of bugs for every project linked to my n900 and recieve no answer because everyone is looking forward to something and is considering the actual project almost dead Feb 01 12:16:09 hirabayashitaro: I empathise. Feb 01 12:17:26 hirabayashitaro: did you look at Versit and Mobility Contacts? Feb 01 12:17:40 (regarding your fonetic field issue) Feb 01 12:19:48 brb Feb 01 12:20:06 (qt) Feb 01 12:20:12 Venemo: that's was I found some days ago, and what I suppose meego-handset-people is based on, am I right? Feb 01 12:21:10 generally what will matter is what is in meego api, http://apidocs.meego.com/1.1/core/html/index.html - backends can come and go based on requirements of those Feb 01 12:22:25 so improving apis is the direction to go Feb 01 12:23:23 hirabayashitaro, organisation of the projects is being standardised and working practices formulated. this entire project and way of working is totally new to many people. the projects themselves would do well to follow example the Dialer has (being organised by sabotage) http://wiki.meego.com/Project/Dialer :) Feb 01 12:23:54 also keep in mind meego-handset-people are -reference applications-, which most people will replace, so the APIs are what matters Feb 01 12:24:39 they may replace them, but they need to work well initially to allow variants to be built from them! Feb 01 12:27:06 Stskeeps: well, so my suggestion of improving should be suggestd to API developers, right? Feb 01 12:27:12 hirabayashitaro: yes Feb 01 12:27:21 which then drives backend requirements Feb 01 12:28:09 Stskeeps: and where is the place to do so? Feb 01 12:28:27 hirabayashitaro: well, in this case qt mobility APIs would be the place Feb 01 12:29:08 Stskeeps: is there a bugtracker or something? Feb 01 12:30:11 hirabayashitaro: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com i would believe Feb 01 12:36:24 Stskeeps: well, registered there also, hope this time I'll have at least a reply Feb 01 12:44:53 hrm Feb 01 12:46:07 searching the internet to find Meego-Releases mailing list on Yahoo got me the admin page Feb 01 12:46:10 how odd Feb 01 12:49:07 also, on RE ML, theres a mail saying images are there http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-releases/2011-January/001125.html Feb 01 12:49:24 but the N900 folder is still missing image Feb 01 12:49:25 http://download.meego.com/testing-daily/builds/trunk/1.1.90.1.20110131.90/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/ Feb 01 12:51:25 Weird, the -devel image is there Feb 01 12:53:00 Looks like there is a problem with mic Feb 01 12:53:42 Or something ran out of disk space ... Feb 01 13:19:19 * lcuk wonders why dd is so slow Feb 01 13:19:33 I wonder that too Feb 01 13:19:40 then I realised it was copying 2gb Feb 01 13:19:46 I got 14MB/s on a SATA hard drive Feb 01 13:19:50 is there an interactive version? Feb 01 13:20:13 I've never heard of one Feb 01 13:20:53 lcuk, you can watch the percentage by piping to... some utility I can't remember Feb 01 13:21:43 lcuk: kill -USR1 $PIDOFDD Feb 01 13:21:51 Termana, the internets are telling me theres a way to poke it with a USR1 signal Feb 01 13:21:54 that one ^ Feb 01 13:21:59 :D X-Fade Feb 01 13:22:03 lcuk, use pv Feb 01 13:22:07 pipe viewer Feb 01 13:22:23 lcuk: Make sure you use a big block size too. Feb 01 13:22:47 or bar Feb 01 13:22:54 X-Fade, I was not telling it a block size Feb 01 13:23:05 oh fiddlesticks Feb 01 13:23:07 Nokia-N900:~# dd if=/home/user/MyDocs/fm_meego/meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.1.90.1.20110131.80-mmcblk0p.raw of=/dev/mmcblk1 Feb 01 13:23:07 dd: writing '/dev/mmcblk1': No space left on device Feb 01 13:23:07 3911681+0 records in Feb 01 13:23:07 3911680+0 records out Feb 01 13:23:16 lcuk: See if bs=1M helps. Feb 01 13:23:25 Ah, game over anyway :D Feb 01 13:23:26 * lcuk learns to accept Meego images are 1 unit too large for his 2gb card Feb 01 13:23:33 its ok X-Fade Feb 01 13:23:41 it still boots and happily runs stuff Feb 01 13:23:45 even with 1 missing block Feb 01 13:23:51 X-Fade - bigger block size eh? Feb 01 13:23:57 Is that what you say to all the boys? Feb 01 13:24:03 ;p Feb 01 13:24:20 Termana: Sure... Feb 01 13:25:33 Awkward. Feb 01 13:25:34 Soo... hows about them Egypt? Feb 01 13:26:02 bug posted http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTMOBILITY-1083 Feb 01 13:26:37 * CosmoHill glares at the people who put adverts on DVDs Feb 01 13:27:16 CosmoHill, you wouldn't steal... A BEAR Feb 01 13:29:46 "I see you bought the DVD, have you considered blu-ray?" Feb 01 13:29:57 lcuk, :C Feb 01 13:30:05 :D Feb 01 13:30:15 :E Feb 01 13:30:59 CosmoHill, This DVD is equipped with fast-play your movie and a whole load of other crap before it will load automatically in a moment! Feb 01 13:32:06 CosmoHill, why are you watching a DVD and not a blu-ray anyway? :p Feb 01 13:32:17 Not because of your Mac surely? :p Feb 01 13:33:27 it's on the PS3 Feb 01 13:34:34 * lcuk going to get blu-ray player soon :) Feb 01 13:37:23 Physical media... how last century. Feb 01 13:37:48 X-Fade you keep awway from my collection Feb 01 13:39:26 X-Fade, if oyu have to go shops to get beer/munchies to eat whilst watching, physical media isn't so bad. Feb 01 13:39:29 you Feb 01 14:24:57 morn bdub2 Feb 01 14:25:54 morning, Stskeeps Feb 01 14:52:20 good morning to the night shift :) Feb 01 14:54:08 Stskeeps: first day trying to get to the office before 7am in order to leave earlier and share 1h more with the East :) Feb 01 14:55:03 hehe Feb 01 14:55:25 Interesting mail "I am looking for a Sr. Suse Linux Administrator for my Direct client in Lebanon OH. I noticed that you have this expereince" Feb 01 14:55:33 7am is bit too early for my taste Feb 01 14:55:49 maybe I'm posting too much about the OBS without knowing anything about it? ;) Feb 01 14:56:04 :) Feb 01 14:56:20 qgil: Nice :) Feb 01 14:58:54 qgil, and Lebanon, OH is a pretty exotic place to work :) Feb 01 14:59:36 mdp: less exotic nowadays but yes Feb 01 15:00:12 back to topic: I'm impressed by this "to be or not to be" email in MeeGo-pm. Good stuff! Feb 01 15:00:43 btw what is meegos take on the effort creatin one common app repository api? Feb 01 15:01:19 mihero: It is an interesting concept. Feb 01 15:01:56 yep, saw the news on linuxdevices today Feb 01 15:02:39 mihero: It would be nice to have something like that. The design has still a long way to go though. Feb 01 15:04:19 sure. those multimedia upgrades although sounded bit worring, maybe they are creating sometthing too heyvy Feb 01 15:04:40 mihero: At the moment they don't seem to have thought about mobile devices at all. Feb 01 15:04:43 loose the usability of cli Feb 01 15:05:03 mihero: A giant tarball with all icons doesn't scale very well. Feb 01 15:05:23 Especially not when you have > 10k apps :) Feb 01 15:05:51 Desktops don't have a problem with that, but downloading 50MB over 3G each time might not be the way to go. Feb 01 15:06:34 jep Feb 01 15:06:37 But the api can also be used by cli apps of course. That should not give you less usability. Feb 01 15:09:23 qgil: is good stuff but also worrying, shows exactly how we're doing.. Feb 01 15:09:55 i'm a bit afraid the big arguments might end up off list, but we'll see.. Feb 01 15:10:22 Stskeeps: shows a symptom in an objective way Feb 01 15:10:30 yep Feb 01 15:11:32 could make a good dashboard Feb 01 16:35:58 hi [17:24] Feb 01 16:35:58 *** dchaverri26 (~dchaverri@2001:470:8:76d:219:dbff:fe20:b82c) has quit: Quit: Feb 01 16:35:58 Leaving. Feb 01 16:35:58 hi [17:28] Feb 01 16:36:03 can we chat Feb 01 16:36:07 *** Mousey (~wtfisme@ross154.net) has quit: Quit: Leaving Feb 01 16:36:10 ? Feb 01 16:36:13 if you mean private message, then no Feb 01 16:36:13 *** seanvk (~seanvk@nat/intel/x-vxjrlanursbeyieh) has quit: Remote host closed Feb 01 16:36:16 the connection [17:29] Feb 01 16:36:19 ok love to chat 4 Feb 01 16:36:22 *** mankku (~mankku@projects.sse.fi) has joined channel #meego [17:30] Feb 01 16:36:26 *** puffin (~puffin@CPE0016cbc24934-CM000f9f7b2b80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Feb 01 16:36:29 has quit: Remote host closed the connection Feb 01 16:36:33 is there something about Meego I can help you with? Feb 01 16:36:36 *** ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has changed mode for #meego to +o auke Feb 01 16:36:39 [17:31] Feb 01 16:36:42 ok i need love ok Feb 01 16:36:46 *** auke (~auke@nat/intel/x-xohtyimfjeeiytzb) has changed mode for #meego to Feb 01 16:36:49 +b *!*prophetem@41.203.64.* Feb 01 16:36:52 *** auke (~auke@nat/intel/x-xohtyimfjeeiytzb) has kicked marry off channel Feb 01 16:36:52 #meego: marry Feb 01 16:36:54 wdouglas: you know this channel is logged, you could just point us to the logs Feb 01 16:36:55 I believe you're in the wrong channel [17:32] Feb 01 16:36:58 too late Feb 01 16:37:03 *** puffin (~puffin@CPE0016cbc24934-CM000f9f7b2b80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Feb 01 16:37:06 has joined channel #meego Feb 01 16:37:09 *** lynxis (~lynxis@84.22.107.1) has quit: Ping timeout: 255 seconds Feb 01 16:37:12 sorry, had my finger on the trigger there Feb 01 16:37:16 *** ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has changed mode for #meego to -o sofar Feb 01 16:37:22 for the record I want the channel made hidden [17:33] Feb 01 16:37:22 hahaha Feb 01 16:37:26 can someone make this stop? Feb 01 16:37:28 *** JPohlmann1 (~jannis@e176128237.adsl.alicedsl.de) has quit: Quit: Feb 01 16:37:30 JPohlmann1 Feb 01 16:37:30 Hi, I'm a Meego noob. Is it not possible to run a meego environment if my Laptop does not have VT or Intel graphics chipset ? Feb 01 16:37:33 X( [17:34] Feb 01 16:37:36 *** seanvk (~quassel@134.134.139.76) has joined channel #meego [17:35] Feb 01 16:37:39 *** muep (~muep@2a00:1a58:f501:235:5867:a7ff:fe44:6724) has joined channel Feb 01 16:37:43 #meego Feb 01 16:37:49 Sorry about that all, just noticed I pasted =( Feb 01 16:38:00 CosmoHill: putty always messes with me for copy and paste. Feb 01 16:38:07 ah Feb 01 16:38:42 screwgoth: You do need an Intel Graphics chip (not the GMA500), as for VT, that's to do with virtual machines which meego doesn't use Feb 01 16:39:26 well.. i have a Laptop with Nvidia GeForce 8600GT Feb 01 16:40:06 CosmoHill: Is that good enough ? Feb 01 16:41:03 CosmoHill: And I think VT is required for Graphics acceleration, as per: http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/MeeGo_SDK_Graphics_Acceleration Feb 01 16:42:12 http://www.PaisaLive.com/register.asp?1183345-7238421 Feb 01 16:42:14 http://www.PaisaLive.com/register.asp?1183345-7238421 Feb 01 16:42:19 http://www.PaisaLive.com/register.asp?1183345-7238421 Feb 01 16:43:09 Guest78064: piss off you prick Feb 01 16:43:39 screwgoth: Intel VT has nothing to do with graphics, VT stands for Virtualisation (formally Vanderpool) Technology Feb 01 16:43:41 hello Feb 01 16:43:52 niala1: plop Feb 01 16:44:24 hello CosmoHill have a nice day Feb 01 16:44:27 evening Feb 01 16:44:50 CosmoHill: Gotcha ! So I won't be able to boot into a Meego image at all .... I tried burning the netbook image on a USB (using imagecreator) and booting Feb 01 16:45:19 Unless of course you mean VTd which can be used to virtualize graphics Feb 01 16:45:35 screwgoth: you should be able to boot into run level 3 but you won't be able to gte a GUI because you are using Nvidia Feb 01 16:45:49 there might be something on forum.meego.com about using nvidia graphics Feb 01 16:45:58 CosmoHill: oh ok!! I'll check it out. thanks Feb 01 17:29:17 * CosmoHill rages cos he's 1/1000ths of a second off on GT5 Feb 01 17:31:57 CosmoHill: GT5 is a soul sucker Feb 01 17:32:09 I got a silver this time around Feb 01 17:32:48 *knock knock* guess who's here boys and girls Feb 01 17:33:01 Santa? Feb 01 17:33:13 No, MeegoBoy Feb 01 17:35:11 I am a developer with substantial revenues on various platforms. Pray explain to me how I will make income developing on Meego. I am all ears. Feb 01 17:37:11 Isn't that your job to figure out? Feb 01 17:37:27 or are you expecting money to be delivered on a silver platter? Feb 01 17:37:46 I come to the community to ask questions. What is the business model for meego? Feb 01 17:38:06 MeeGo is an infrastructure defined by its APIs and toolkits Feb 01 17:38:20 Instead of being snarky and clownish do give this some thought. Feb 01 17:38:36 the "business model" has to be defined by the vendor and by the developer who, hopefully, has a business plan Feb 01 17:38:51 much like the Linux kernel Feb 01 17:39:20 sell nokia phones and netbooks with intel processors :) Feb 01 17:39:33 or ARM :) Feb 01 17:39:43 or whatever, really Feb 01 17:40:00 i'd image at some point, atm I don't think there is an ARM netbook image Feb 01 17:40:13 That doesnt answer my question. Let me rephrase: how is a developer expected to support oneself writing meego software and ensure it isnt butchered by the open source folk. I am all ears. Feb 01 17:40:34 MeegoBoy: are you asking sincerely or are you merely here to troll? Feb 01 17:40:42 microlith: the former Feb 01 17:41:13 MeegoBoy: the same way people make money from any other open source software i'd imagine Feb 01 17:41:31 CosmoHill: he's obviously opposed to "open source" Feb 01 17:41:57 I am sincere. 20 years of writing computer code for various platforms. No need for insults. Feb 01 17:42:11 MeegoBoy: name two platforms Feb 01 17:42:31 MeegoBoy: give some credentials for your claims Feb 01 17:43:19 I am trying to comprehend how this project of yours will sustain programmers such as myself who can bring compelling applications to the table. Feb 01 17:43:37 I cannot say for privacy reasons. Feb 01 17:43:48 MeegoBoy: I think you are making this up Feb 01 17:44:24 MeegoBoy: who's privacy ? Feb 01 17:44:42 nobody is stopping you to sell your programs :) Feb 01 17:44:57 MeegoBo you mean appstore ? Feb 01 17:45:23 Meegoboy: My 2 - Realistically you can't yet. If or when some Meego platforms become popular, then it might be like the Android App market - which means free stuff will be available for most things, or free plus ads. Maybe some stuff will sell, but hard to say - how many developers can sustain themselves on the Android App market? A lot of it seems to be ego or playing around, as opposed to making money.... Feb 01 17:45:46 MeegoBoy: if adopted it will provide a common platform you can target. whether or not it will sustain you is on -your- end Feb 01 17:45:48 I have written some of the code for the most compelling applications in Windows and ios. My experience is extensive in computer languages. Feb 01 17:46:05 MeegoBoy: vague statements lend no credibility Feb 01 17:46:12 MeegoBoy: I dont believe you, give a real example, not just vague claims Feb 01 17:46:34 if application is compelling enough, people will buy it :) Feb 01 17:46:41 I think MeegoBoy would like to know how someone can contribute to open source projects whilst making an income Feb 01 17:46:52 (if he doesn't want to know I still would) Feb 01 17:47:14 i have been lurking here for a long long time and am rather apalled at the lack of progress with your platform. Can anyone shed some light on this debacle? Feb 01 17:47:28 MeegoBoy: you're a debacle :) Feb 01 17:47:30 MeegoBoy: so you are here to troll. Feb 01 17:47:38 MeegoBoy: you are a marketing troll Feb 01 17:47:52 Pardon? Feb 01 17:48:07 CosmoHill: most people I've seen are employed by others, or are independent contractors that get funding from various 3rd parties to work on a specific project Feb 01 17:48:20 CosmoHill: like the UBIFS and LogFS developers Feb 01 17:48:20 MeegoBoy: you understand what I am saying Feb 01 17:48:50 I have extensive work experience in this industry beginning with Nokia when it did series 80, i am an enginner at heart. Feb 01 17:49:00 microlith: like Hauku (or whatever it is) put up a bounty for some graphics work on their platform? Feb 01 17:49:11 MeegoBoy: ah so you are not an engineer, only at heart :) Feb 01 17:49:13 CosmoHill: something like that. Feb 01 17:49:29 MeegoBoy: and I was a principle engineer on IA64 :P Feb 01 17:49:38 (see how easy it is to make crap up!) Feb 01 17:49:41 Right now i work in computer programming capacity. Feb 01 17:49:53 CosmoHill: Think of the Renaissance and art... Find a patron... That's the most realistic way I've seen... That or incredible luck, like being a featured app for Apple... Feb 01 17:50:06 I have an extensive network of colleagues within Nokia. Feb 01 17:50:16 MeegoBoy: name two Feb 01 17:50:29 speaking of apple's app store, I'd be interested in seeing the return rates on most apps. I suspect most don't turn shit for profits :) Feb 01 17:50:50 I am not a fool. Naming anybody would destroy my network. Feb 01 17:51:13 MeegoBoy: ok, you're not a fool, but I think you are a liar Feb 01 17:51:35 MeegoBoy: it's starting to sound like you're reading your speach from blank pages Feb 01 17:52:05 I can speak about Apple app store and I assure you the profits are substantial. It is my full time occupation but i cannot give you specific numbers. Sorry. Feb 01 17:52:07 oh no, it's MeegoBoy again :) Feb 01 17:52:13 MeegoBoy, once all the links are in place, MeeGo will have App Store models from both Nokia Ovi as you should already know and Intel AppUp Feb 01 17:52:36 had you spent 5 minutes making use of your extensive knowledge you would know that. Feb 01 17:52:45 lcuk: I don't think MeegoBoy wants to know anything Feb 01 17:52:55 So meego will be competing with ovi? Care to clarify lcuk? Feb 01 17:53:43 *Sigh* Feb 01 17:54:02 by the way, do we have some policy around using "Meego" in nicknames Feb 01 17:54:06 MeegoBoy: Ovi is nokia's app store. Nokia will use MeeGo. Feb 01 17:54:18 MeeGo is not bound to any store Feb 01 17:54:24 meego provides no store Feb 01 17:54:48 * lcuk mutters something about an app mall ;) Feb 01 17:54:54 I make a very comfortable living off Apple app store. Can I accomplish the same with Meego or is Meego only for hobbyist types coding stuff in their bedrooms looking at their pimple faced reflections in the computer screens? Sorry no offence. Feb 01 17:54:57 "App Strip Mall" Feb 01 17:55:19 someone ban MeegoBoy, he's being worthless Feb 01 17:55:28 MeegoBoy: how comfortable ? and do the income tax people know about this ? Feb 01 17:55:42 Yes. I pay every penny. Feb 01 17:56:05 MeegoBoy: what country ? we will have them check on you Feb 01 17:56:29 Is meego for hobbyists i described above? (pimple faced teenagers) Feb 01 17:56:47 MeegoBoy: shoo Feb 01 17:57:18 MeegoBoy: meego is for adults, you should not be here :) Feb 01 17:57:19 Or is meego a serious platform? Feb 01 17:57:21 reminder that we have IRC guidelines that including being nice to others Feb 01 17:57:23 MeegoBoy: it's the same as maemo Feb 01 17:57:32 http://wiki.meego.com/IRC_guidelines Feb 01 17:57:39 DawnFoster: I'm sure MeegoBoy crossed that line long ago Feb 01 17:57:50 Cosmo: so open source mambo jumbo then? Feb 01 17:57:50 DawnFoster: btw are my changes okay? I didn't realise I had to run them past someone first Feb 01 17:58:21 How am I rude or disrespectful? Feb 01 17:58:29 duno, never used it. All I know is that MeeGo will be placing it Feb 01 17:59:17 DawnFoster: I was thinking maybe adding a bullet point about the channel language being English Feb 01 17:59:21 MeegoBoy: [09:53 01] I make a very comfortable living off Apple app store. Can I accomplish the same with Meego or is Meego only for hobbyist types coding stuff in their bedrooms looking at their pimple faced reflections in the computer screens? Sorry no offence. Feb 01 17:59:22 Why am I not welcome here? Feb 01 17:59:34 you deliberately came here to insult, not to inquire Feb 01 17:59:41 CosmoHill: it's fine to make changes. I review them and revert anything that doesn't make sense Feb 01 17:59:49 MeeGoBot: probably because of your attitude towards others here. Normal reaction, I'd say. Feb 01 17:59:51 andre__: Sorry, I've no idea what 'probably because of your attitude towards others here. Normal reaction, I'd say' might be. Feb 01 17:59:52 CosmoHill: you changes looked good Feb 01 17:59:56 MeegoBoy: probably because of your attitude towards others here. Normal reaction, I'd say. Feb 01 18:00:08 MeegoBoy: I think your choice of words might have been very good and thus caused fritcion Feb 01 18:00:13 DawnFoster: thanks :) Feb 01 18:00:13 i have distaste for hobbyists types, they are pirates mostly. Surely you must agree. Feb 01 18:00:23 MeegoBoy: GTFO Feb 01 18:00:33 MeegoBoy: people have to start somewhere Feb 01 18:00:44 Microlith: nice language Feb 01 18:01:01 MeegoBoy: you are deserving of nothing more Feb 01 18:01:05 MeegoBoy: the name calling and accusations need to stop Feb 01 18:01:06 i'd encourage young ones to learn and i'd point them in the right direction Feb 01 18:01:26 infact that's normally what I do in LFS Feb 01 18:01:54 DawnFoster: say when Feb 01 18:01:55 \o/ Feb 01 18:02:04 * CosmoHill waits for auke to accidently kick MeeGoBot Feb 01 18:02:41 I've given the warning - feel free to kick if we see any more name calling / accusations :) Feb 01 18:02:58 now, I'm off to get a cup of tea :) brb Feb 01 18:03:04 may I suggest those involed chill out for a bit Feb 01 18:03:05 I kicked someone yesterday for saying they "need love" Feb 01 18:03:56 oh you have no heart auke :) Feb 01 18:03:57 hmm, chaos? Feb 01 18:04:37 wmarone-n900: auke has a gun in one hand and a cat in the other Feb 01 18:04:46 goodness Feb 01 18:05:09 oh no, he's stroking the cat whilst pointing the gun at someone Feb 01 18:08:38 a real cat and a real gun is a dangerous combination, as anyone who has cats can probably attest to Feb 01 18:08:51 no real cat-gun-experience required Feb 01 18:08:54 depends who has the gun, you or the cat Feb 01 18:09:12 wwwweeeellllll Feb 01 18:09:13 and depends on the size of the cat Feb 01 18:09:15 * RST38h moosevilly Feb 01 18:09:28 * RST38h moos evilly that is Feb 01 18:09:41 space moose? Feb 01 18:10:02 you can kinda read that as "moose villain"...well you can if your mind makes up letters Feb 01 18:11:04 it does, of course it does Feb 01 18:11:32 and space moose is nothing if not villain-y, so I rest my case Feb 01 18:11:38 whatever my case may be Feb 01 18:19:31 Hi, a little question... are there some japanese developers in the project? Feb 01 18:20:43 hirabayashitaro: there are a couple, not sure if there are any on the main dev groups Feb 01 18:21:34 And in addition to it, the meeting in Tokyo is to be intended as a the intention to try to gain some influence in the east asian countries also? Feb 01 18:22:30 wmarone-n900: is there a way to get in contact with some of them? Feb 01 18:22:58 kimitake comes around occasionally Feb 01 18:23:17 the other guy I'm not sure Feb 01 18:23:42 might want to look at the mailing list and forum Feb 01 18:24:05 hirabayashitaro: i think they're mostly on the forum but I have seen some japanese / chinese writing in here before Feb 01 18:25:07 ときどきですね。 :) Feb 01 18:25:32 CosmoHill: I see Feb 01 18:25:36 wmarone-n900: lol Feb 01 18:25:52 I'm hoping multilanguage IMEs are better integrated with MeeGo Feb 01 18:26:09 maemo works, but not consistently Feb 01 18:27:54 wmarone-n900: yes, is quite a mess. But meego seems to have no plans in this direction Feb 01 18:28:21 wmarone-n900: and I suppose this is linked to the fact that nokia has no business in Japan Feb 01 18:28:49 probably, but IIRC they do have business in much of Asia Feb 01 18:29:01 china, taiwan Feb 01 18:29:14 hirabayashitaro: maybe approach it from the other end - which service providers / manufaturers have interest Feb 01 18:29:45 hirabayashitaro: and then try to find which of those have involvement with meego Feb 01 18:29:51 meego needs to have IMEs regardless Feb 01 18:30:02 to not is sloppy Feb 01 18:30:28 especially considering that there are already several good Linux ones Feb 01 18:30:56 judging by our big chinese contributors, IME is obvious.. Feb 01 18:31:15 berndhs: I agree. But I've left the phone number of the chief head of Docomo and Softbank in my other trousers Feb 01 18:31:32 oooh! Feb 01 18:32:33 I'm still amazed at how good Docomo's 3(.5)G coverage is Feb 01 18:33:21 I looked at some statistics about smartphones on google just yesterday Feb 01 18:33:59 and the first three places with the most generatefd traffic are three east asian countries Feb 01 18:34:39 sure, japan is far more intense with cellphone use for data Feb 01 18:35:57 and I think we must consider the fact that it could bring some good coding and localization Feb 01 18:36:23 yup Feb 01 19:06:03 this is probably going to sound like an odd question, but is GLES1.1 a meego api? Feb 01 19:11:14 that's a good question considering you can (soon) put GLSL code into Qt and QML apps Feb 01 19:11:27 or well you can already Feb 01 19:11:59 i'm seing it listed and a bit surprised at that, but i guess "GLES2.0" is what needs to be supported Feb 01 19:23:27 so, anyone here going to fosdem? Feb 01 19:24:21 mm, i am, but mostly only around for beer event and embedded devroom on the sunday Feb 01 19:24:47 i forgot about it Feb 01 19:25:06 oh, i can't go, i have a commitment for friday Feb 01 19:26:55 Hello jello Feb 01 19:28:02 MeegoBoy: will you behave now? Feb 01 19:28:17 Do i hafta? Feb 01 19:28:58 yes, at least when i'm observing :) Feb 01 19:30:12 mmm the CO in 30-ish mins... Feb 01 19:30:43 lbt: I was just going to say that :) Feb 01 19:30:53 and with a link: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings Feb 01 19:31:13 :) Feb 01 19:31:20 oh! thanks for reminder.. Feb 01 19:31:42 You may not see it that way but I'm just trying to lit a fire underneath yo asses to get this project moving. Feb 01 19:31:57 dawn: are you going to fosdem? Feb 01 19:34:23 hey MeegoBoy, what's up? Feb 01 19:35:49 Same old, same old mate Feb 01 19:37:43 timeless_xchat: unfortunately, no Feb 01 19:38:14 So what ya all think elop will say on feb 11 ? Feb 01 19:38:42 MeegoBoy: i think it'll include the words "a" "an" "the" and "how" and that's about it Feb 01 19:39:10 Any cool fones being announced? Feb 01 19:39:29 we don't know, we're not nokia product management here :) Feb 01 19:39:56 But you got the inside knowledge man Feb 01 19:40:29 no, i'm utterly uninformed :) Feb 01 19:41:03 it's a blessing, makes me able to work on meego.com full time without worries Feb 01 19:42:55 How will meego win the battle of the OS's ? Feb 01 19:44:15 At first it will strike low with a katana... After that invisible ninjas will take over Google and iOS offices. End of the story. Feb 01 19:44:15 by smiling :) Feb 01 19:44:43 MeegoBoy: by providing a compelling developer experience, ease of productization, porting and open development Feb 01 19:45:12 Interesting, interesting Feb 01 19:45:22 MeegoBoy: how will you help to make it happen? Feb 01 19:47:45 battles may be lost...I'd rather win the whole war :) Feb 01 19:47:53 Albundy: i believe we had an understanding from last time you came by that you'd be using one nick only :) Feb 01 19:48:33 Stskeeps: It does not matter, just ban by IP. Feb 01 19:49:06 is today some special troll day? Feb 01 19:49:28 hirabayashitaro: seems so, they are popping up everywhere Feb 01 19:49:35 hirabayashitaro: :) Feb 01 19:49:48 Slow day indeed Feb 01 19:50:13 at least the chan is moving :D Feb 01 19:50:35 RST38h: that's because you're not taking into serious account my proposal... I have some dark power indeed :P Feb 01 19:50:51 timeless_xchat, are you? :D Feb 01 19:51:15 X-Fade: Jaffa: ping ... you two about ? Feb 01 19:51:23 lbt: Yes. Feb 01 19:51:48 hiraba: Does your proposal come with a decently paid work contract? Feb 01 19:51:51 heck of a day Feb 01 19:52:43 RST38h: you're working at meego for money? Bad bad guy! Feb 01 19:53:20 * lcuk wondering whether the latest n900 image has touch input Feb 01 19:53:47 RST38h: I'm searching a work for myself... Nokia, Intel, are you accidentally searching for someone to improve your international market? I'm here!!! Feb 01 19:53:49 hirabayashitaro: money is best way to ensure constant contribution :P Feb 01 19:54:11 blackmail also applies Feb 01 19:54:18 hiraba: Ok, yyou can probably guess why your proposal has not caused any interest then =) Feb 01 19:54:38 phaeron: o/ Feb 01 19:54:49 lbt: yo Feb 01 19:55:01 http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings/Brainstorming_11-02-01 Feb 01 19:55:30 Stskeeps: Ehi ehi, I'm not Nokia after all. Pay money is a task for whom who actually have money Feb 01 19:55:32 * lbt is too tired to do any 'prep' ... Feb 01 19:55:50 hirabayashitaro: yeah, of course Feb 01 19:56:16 hirabayashitaro: what do you do? Feb 01 19:56:52 RST38h: well, mine was a simple propposal of improvement. I don't pay for it, but I'm not receiving money either Feb 01 19:57:34 lbt: well, nothing in particular. Be interested in technologies and speak some languages. Feb 01 19:57:44 tester :) Feb 01 19:58:36 lbt: sure, it was my plain. But after many bug submissions and no answer I'm planning to quit :) Feb 01 19:58:54 :( ... yeah... that's frustrating Feb 01 19:59:02 hirabayashitaro: where are you having issues with unanswered bugs in particular? Feb 01 19:59:46 Ev'ning all Feb 01 19:59:48 X-Fade: so... are we good with scope for the meeting Feb 01 19:59:53 hey Jaffa Feb 01 20:00:15 here: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTMOBILITY-1083 Feb 01 20:00:19 lbt: Yeah, I guess we can follow the wiki. I'll do the intro. Feb 01 20:00:23 maclaver! Feb 01 20:00:35 and here: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13127 Feb 01 20:00:48 lbt: X-Fade: At some point I think it'd be good to get a MeeGo architect on board in this process; but probably outside of the scope of this meeting Feb 01 20:01:09 Jaffa: I agree. Feb 01 20:01:15 and here: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=640203 Feb 01 20:01:19 is auke around? Feb 01 20:01:19 lbt added link to itp on the wiki Feb 01 20:01:28 where it said where it the itp Feb 01 20:01:40 and some other places Feb 01 20:01:48 lcuk: i'm considering Feb 01 20:01:55 hirabayashitaro: ok, so, 2 days isn't ignored ;) Feb 01 20:02:15 but probably not Feb 01 20:03:06 lcuk: ta ... Feb 01 20:04:12 CO meeting starting Feb 01 20:05:25 Jaffa! Feb 01 20:11:34 lbt: are you going to talk about how MeeGo Garage fits in (or doesn't) in the new world order? Feb 01 20:12:40 pixelgeek: yes Feb 01 20:13:55 thx Feb 01 20:21:23 pixelgeek: is there a MeeGo garage? Feb 01 20:22:36 Venemo, theres a #Meego-meeting atm Feb 01 20:22:43 people are >>> Feb 01 20:51:50 Venemo: yes, there is a MeeGo garage, but it only has a couple of apps in it right now. My understanding is that it will somehow be linked in with or replaced by the community OBS that's being discussed in #meego-meeting right now. Feb 01 20:52:26 ah. Feb 01 20:53:38 yep Feb 01 21:01:28 pixelgeek: so... that didn't get to that area .... but it's in scope for the team Feb 01 21:02:00 yes, I saw the conversation was at a higher level. Feb 01 21:03:34 It's one of those catch 22 situations where you want to have a full collection of apps when MeeGo devices start hitting the shelves, but until they do no developers are going to want to port to it, so people will be less willing to buy a MeeGo device. Feb 01 21:04:05 *nod* ... and the work we're doing is opensource only Feb 01 21:04:06 pixelgeek: Yes, that is a difficult problem to tackle. Feb 01 21:04:17 pixelgeek, which way do you want to port? from desktop or from handset Feb 01 21:04:44 pixelgeek: that's where money comes in Feb 01 21:04:44 although we'd like to find a way to help commercially oriented app stores too... Feb 01 21:04:45 Me personally or what do I want to see? Feb 01 21:04:46 because for a while now, handset guys have been guided towards creating apps on Maemo which will try to be forwards/upwards compatible Feb 01 21:04:52 just pay some people and companies to write software Feb 01 21:05:08 in a sense the community OBS could provide a reference implementation Feb 01 21:05:08 hey thiago_home \o Feb 01 21:05:16 lcuk: heya Feb 01 21:05:25 I'd like to see apps that are on Android & iPhone -> MeeGo Feb 01 21:05:53 But I'd also like to see the best of Linux apps there too. Feb 01 21:05:56 again, just pay those companies Feb 01 21:05:57 well no doubt one day someone will get bored enough to write an emulator for ios or something Feb 01 21:05:59 pixelgeek: which ones? Feb 01 21:06:05 "best of Linux apps" Feb 01 21:06:17 :) Feb 01 21:06:26 I think the best linux app is nmap :) Feb 01 21:06:38 * thiago_home is quite fond of ddate Feb 01 21:06:42 only because Trinity from the Matrix uses it :P Feb 01 21:06:51 tuxracer FTW! Feb 01 21:06:57 tuxracer is awesome Feb 01 21:07:12 i suggested it as a data visualisation tool for the NokiaPush snowboarding guys :D Feb 01 21:07:14 does it run on 800x480 without mouse? Feb 01 21:07:23 it runs on my n900 Feb 01 21:07:36 its in extras-something isn't it? Feb 01 21:07:57 * lcuk was playing it at the barbers Feb 01 21:07:58 * thiago_home was wondering today about all those "best of Linux apps" when we move to Wayland Feb 01 21:08:02 they'll have to be ported Feb 01 21:08:32 That's a way off yet, isn't it? Feb 01 21:08:35 you will probably see someone just port an x11 server onto wayland? Feb 01 21:08:40 right Feb 01 21:08:47 but running X on top of Wayland will have a cost Feb 01 21:08:54 performance, memory and disk space Feb 01 21:08:55 sure Feb 01 21:09:02 new versions of the apps will pop up Feb 01 21:09:07 and wayland should be end of the year, this year Feb 01 21:09:17 so in 2012, meego devices should be using wayland Feb 01 21:09:22 I would imagine porting to wayland would be same consideration as trying to port existing app to ios or android Feb 01 21:09:35 depends on how much Xlib usage the app does Feb 01 21:09:41 yeah Feb 01 21:09:58 apps using high-level toolkits like Qt, Gtk or Clutter may not need anything at all Feb 01 21:10:06 for Qt, probably not even recompile Feb 01 21:10:19 mind you - we all write proper n-tier apps now, so the decent core of them shouldn't be effected Feb 01 21:10:23 thiago_home: you just answered the question I was thinking Feb 01 21:10:42 opengl apps won't need much either Feb 01 21:10:49 * pixelgeek +1 for ESP Feb 01 21:10:50 DawnFoster: you don't happen to have a photo or a list of the unconference sessions we actually ended up having? Feb 01 21:11:05 I saw a photo Feb 01 21:11:06 Can I ask some technical detail... How the various part of the project are linked together? I mean how do you organize work between the kernel part, the qt part, the interface part, ecc. Feb 01 21:11:13 hmmm, on flickr maybe Feb 01 21:11:17 Stskeeps, http://liqbase.net/20101117_011.jpg Feb 01 21:11:20 I suppose there's a page on it, soa link should be good enough Feb 01 21:11:42 ah, thanks Feb 01 21:11:46 http://www.flickr.com/photos/martingrimme/5192178612/sizes/l/in/pool-1534110@N24/ Feb 01 21:11:53 hirabayashitaro: meego.com -> developers -> architecture, i think Feb 01 21:12:17 hirabayashitaro: probably something like "it happens" :-) Feb 01 21:12:18 maybe qgil or mrshaver have something better Feb 01 21:13:35 http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/FIqFSp3v3hihPXVjzrQJ4A?feat=directlink Feb 01 21:14:21 I've already seen that pages. Looks nice. But in concrete terms is there a positive collaboration between them? Feb 01 21:14:44 Ah - the others are better Feb 01 21:15:22 Because qt, for example, is non strictly a part of meego project and so it could take decisions which could be not in line with meego plans Feb 01 21:15:44 hirabayashitaro: of course, but this is where good old collaboration across projects exist Feb 01 21:15:47 hirabayashitaro: like what? Feb 01 21:15:55 hirabayashitaro: meego is a collection of open source projects Feb 01 21:16:07 hirabayashitaro: nothing guarantees that those open source projects will always do what meego wants Feb 01 21:16:15 hirabayashitaro: yet it works Feb 01 21:16:25 hirabayashitaro, that is like saying Qt taking decisions not in line with Linux Feb 01 21:16:57 porting to Symbian is not really in line with Linux :-) Feb 01 21:18:05 You have a point, but what I was intending is for example that meego development requires a feature which influences qt development? Feb 01 21:18:13 it should be Feb 01 21:18:18 then meego developers make the contribution to Qt Feb 01 21:18:34 Qt is technically a bad example, so let's take the Linux kernel Feb 01 21:18:47 we need a feature in the kernel, for example adaptation to a particular hardware Feb 01 21:18:55 well, make the feature, submit it to the kernel Feb 01 21:19:54 we really need a reference to forum quite up front on meego.com .. Feb 01 21:20:47 Stskeeps: +1 Feb 01 21:22:08 thiago_home: nice. And a more wide question: how do you manage to achieve a wide support for devices without the consequent problems of compatibility Feb 01 21:22:30 hirabayashitaro: that question is too vague Feb 01 21:22:44 hirabayashitaro: the stricti answer is "self-interest" Feb 01 21:22:57 each vendor or person has a self-interest in seeing their hardware work Feb 01 21:22:59 a hammer helps sometimes. Feb 01 21:23:27 thiago_home: Well, meego is presented as the universal SO, but it could be so? Feb 01 21:23:33 it can be Feb 01 21:23:41 like I said, it's self interest Feb 01 21:23:52 I'm wondering if I'll show up in the metrics as the #1 irc kick/banner Feb 01 21:23:52 each person pulls MeeGo in one direction, contributes a little Feb 01 21:23:57 the sum of all contributions is a universal OS Feb 01 21:24:25 you're not going to see Nokia support another manufacturer's device Feb 01 21:24:40 you're seeing Intel do some ARM work, but there's a self-interest reason behind all of that Feb 01 21:24:47 thiago_home: I'm intendig for example, if i have a netbook and an handset I'm expetcing to have no problems to exchange personal data between them Feb 01 21:25:01 hirabayashitaro: that's just data exchange, nothing to do with hardware Feb 01 21:25:52 if you see the slideshow presented at the meego meeting in Tokyo is all a line connecting things toghether Feb 01 21:26:12 DawnFoster: minor comment.. it is my impression -packaging@ is actually being used for what would otherwise be 70% of meego-dev traffic, due to the way we have the commits mailing list ("when something goes wrong, take it to meego-packaging") Feb 01 21:26:12 the point is that meego can be that Feb 01 21:26:16 not that it is today Feb 01 21:26:32 and that we have people working in each area to make it a reality Feb 01 21:27:05 hirabayashitaro, do you have a link Feb 01 21:27:11 DawnFoster: perhaps it'd be worth having -dev be target instead of -packaging, so discussion happens the 'right' place Feb 01 21:27:20 thiago_home: I appreciate that, what I want to know is in what way you are trying to achieve that Feb 01 21:27:29 you are developing common apps? Feb 01 21:27:31 hirabayashitaro: again a vague question Feb 01 21:27:32 yes Feb 01 21:27:37 some apps are common, some aren't Feb 01 21:27:42 the infrastructure is common, mostly Feb 01 21:27:48 hirabayashitaro, read up about qt-mobility Feb 01 21:27:50 the compliancy is common Feb 01 21:28:09 a common core of usable practical classes for app builders to use like lego :) Feb 01 21:28:50 * thiago_home pictures a Lego phone Feb 01 21:28:57 it can be done :D Feb 01 21:30:02 but who states the limit of what is in meego and what is not? Feb 01 21:30:08 and where the limit is Feb 01 21:30:57 thiago_home, :D Feb 01 21:31:17 if I'd like to implement some funticion for something which requires a special feature in a more basical structure, I can really implement that thing in the core system? Feb 01 21:31:32 prove the concept first Feb 01 21:31:36 make people listen Feb 01 21:31:44 get it on roadmap/requirement.. Feb 01 21:32:40 * lcuk goes doing some bedtime reading Feb 01 21:32:46 gnite guys \o Feb 01 21:33:40 hirabayashitaro: http://meego.com/developers/meego-roadmap and http://meego.com/developers/requirements Feb 01 21:34:32 A concrete example about contact managing, which is the only field that I know a bit. If I'm a chinese developer and I need that my contacts must have a bloodtype attribute I should implement that on qt contact schema to guarantee the standardization of devices? Feb 01 21:35:36 it seems a bit complicated when it comes to more specifical things Feb 01 21:36:25 hirabayashitaro: generally the rule is to work in the projects we use (upstream first) Feb 01 21:36:27 hirabayashitaro, you have come asking a specific question about something I have never heard of in contacts. curiously, why do you need blood type? Feb 01 21:37:09 lcuk: i believe that's something along the lines of zodiacs Feb 01 21:37:10 * lcuk pauses his book Feb 01 21:37:24 http://www.chinapost.com.tw/life/2009/02/03/194440/In-Japan.htm Feb 01 21:37:31 because for chinese people blood type is linked to people attitude Feb 01 21:37:31 'tis Feb 01 21:37:36 ahh Feb 01 21:37:58 good 'ol 血液型 Feb 01 21:38:00 hirabayashitaro, what blood type are you? Feb 01 21:38:13 and that's true for all asian countries. All japanese phones have blood type field under contacts Feb 01 21:38:14 O.o Feb 01 21:38:25 B型 Feb 01 21:39:12 you should have understood it from what I typed :D Feb 01 21:39:25 B+? Feb 01 21:39:42 CosmoHill: yes Feb 01 21:39:45 yay Feb 01 21:40:20 "Security review has been completed and it is now acceptable from a security Feb 01 21:40:21 perspective to open the Core OBS to anonymous read-only access." Feb 01 21:40:23 \o/ Feb 01 21:40:43 :) Feb 01 21:41:13 hirabayashitaro: i think there's definately some kind of room for geographical area work groups in meego Feb 01 21:41:33 collecting requirements that people wouldn't normally think about not being from certain areas Feb 01 21:41:41 like, blood type field support in a contact card :) Feb 01 21:42:04 I wonder if there's a demand for bra size field :> Feb 01 21:42:27 Stskeeps: It could, but it's kind difficult to find things in meego. (Not a critical observation, though it could seem so) Feb 01 21:42:55 hirabayashitaro: always a problem with fast growing projects, things don't look as streamlined :) Feb 01 21:43:27 but you're right Feb 01 21:43:46 what top 5 things are you missing? Feb 01 21:44:02 hirabayashitaro: "All japanese phones have blood type field under contacts" -> really? Feb 01 21:44:09 Venemo: really Feb 01 21:44:20 for what purpose? Feb 01 21:44:26 even my sanyo dumbphone from 2003 had it Feb 01 21:44:34 Venemo: horoscope-style stuff Feb 01 21:44:38 Venemo: mine had it, and my friends' too Feb 01 21:44:43 even I don't know my blood type Feb 01 21:44:58 can you send a group text to all, say, B+ people in your contact list? Feb 01 21:45:00 :/ well, you should at least know it for emergency purposes Feb 01 21:45:05 I imagine in asia particulary you might also want to have a picture of someone's business card associated with a contact entry? Feb 01 21:45:36 wmarone: I guess it's written down in somewhere. I just can't recall it Feb 01 21:45:45 anidel: I think it's mostly vanity, though on meego it'd certainly be possible :) Feb 01 21:45:59 wmarone: that'd be helpful though :) Feb 01 21:46:22 "I need your blood! Hurry!" Feb 01 21:46:47 Asian market (people?) is kinda weird, and I suppose that part of the fail of Nokia in that area of the world is due to the misunderstanding of their specificity which they are proud to defend Feb 01 21:47:26 Anyway... Feb 01 21:47:53 hirabayashitaro: by the way, where are you from? Feb 01 21:48:05 Venemo: Italy Feb 01 21:48:30 whereabout in Italy ? Feb 01 21:49:08 Well, born in Umbria, and studying in Florence Feb 01 21:49:58 japanese parents I suppose? Feb 01 21:50:24 anidel: no, just Japanese student Feb 01 21:51:08 anidel: And I must go back to study for my Japanese philology exam soon Feb 01 21:51:18 isn't quite late over there? Feb 01 21:52:43 It is, but had no time today (and I were not in the mood of dealing with conjugations Feb 01 21:53:31 there'll be a MeeGo Day in Bologna in March, will you be going ? Feb 01 21:54:43 hirabayashitaro, how do you enter text on a handheld? Feb 01 21:54:44 it's not an official MeeGo event (although Intel Italia's sponsoring it): http://www.meegoit.com/ Feb 01 21:55:07 anidel: I'm considering to go Feb 01 21:55:08 lcuk: I guess they do like chinese? Feb 01 21:55:18 lcuk: well, in the case of Maemo it's an IME similar to standard desktop linuxes Feb 01 21:55:53 you type in romaji, and hit space to convert from the kana to kanji Feb 01 21:56:14 anidel: I'm considering to go Feb 01 21:56:15 so multiple keypresses per character? Feb 01 21:56:45 lcuk: it's not unlike typing in english Feb 01 21:56:48 hirabayashitaro, go, it'll be interesting and it's 2hrs away from Florence Feb 01 21:56:59 lcuk: no, simply software that proposes different possibilities for any imput Feb 01 21:57:38 right, like the predictive keyboard as discussed for English by myself marnanel and the Collabora guys and whoever else Feb 01 21:57:48 anidel: The fact is that I'm not a programmer, and it is mainly about technical stuff Feb 01 21:58:04 hirabayashitaro, nope, it's an introduction to MeeGo.. or at least, it should Feb 01 21:58:59 lcuk: sorta, though you have the additional kanji conversion step Feb 01 21:59:06 lcuk: there are plenty IMEs for CJK out there. For maemo the problem was only the integration with the normal input Feb 01 21:59:18 mmm just read the program, indeed it's quite technical save for the first talks Feb 01 21:59:33 wmarone, hirabayashitaro - you both have experience with these IMEs Feb 01 21:59:49 lcuk, you've never tried or seen one ? Feb 01 21:59:51 anidel: I'll have a look at the program... Feb 01 21:59:53 most people in the channel however do not - I am merely curious and opening conversation :) Feb 01 22:00:28 lcuk, I remember I tried one, but was actually drawing rather than using pijing (is that the correct name?) Feb 01 22:00:37 the only real non qwerty IME I have experience with is cellphone abc and T9 which both sound similar Feb 01 22:00:59 having to multipress or guess because there are not enough buttons to fill the normal alphabet Feb 01 22:01:02 Pijin... Feb 01 22:01:04 lcuk: kimitake adapted some IME packages for maemo, so I suppose he can do something for meego also Feb 01 22:01:54 the problem in this sense is that there's no commercial interest in that area by the involved companies Feb 01 22:02:19 there will be.. China and India are very interesting markets now Feb 01 22:02:29 anidel: they are Feb 01 22:02:50 especially on the handset side Feb 01 22:03:14 lcuk, weren't you going to be? :) Feb 01 22:03:18 *bed Feb 01 22:03:28 hirabayashitaro, i went reading Feb 01 22:03:45 then Venemo pinged me on another channel Feb 01 22:03:58 anidel * Feb 01 22:04:46 meaning several reasons? Feb 01 22:04:47 anidel: i wish I could get one of those 2 billion people to work with me to provide for that market Feb 01 22:05:12 provide what? Feb 01 22:05:31 make sure my applications work there Feb 01 22:05:45 hirabayashitaro, does your normal computer IME make you curse with strange guesses? Feb 01 22:06:22 is there a version of damnyouautocorrect for chinese because you missed a character? :D Feb 01 22:06:52 http://www.google.com/trends?q=android%2C+iphone%2C+blackberry have a look under the graph Feb 01 22:07:53 lcuk: not really, I'm actually using Google IME (the open source version) which is in my opinion the best on linux today Feb 01 22:08:17 lcuk: though anthy is not bad at all Feb 01 22:09:21 Hong kong, taiwan, korea are not something that could be ignored, I think Feb 01 22:10:18 it would help if there was a hardware vendor from those areas interested in MeeGo, and willing to engage the community Feb 01 22:10:58 wmarone: agree Feb 01 22:11:26 there probably are some vendors tehre working on it as we speak, just not in public Feb 01 22:11:48 wmarone: Japan is also a big market for mobile devices Feb 01 22:12:19 hirabayashitaro: oh I know, it's the country that gives us electronic dictionaries with ridiculous capabilities and the Sharp Zaurus Feb 01 22:12:39 on top of being the single biggest consumer of cell phone games Feb 01 22:13:17 * wmarone glances at his 7 year old Sharp eDictionary Feb 01 22:14:45 to answer Stskeeps who made me a question like an hour ago Feb 01 22:15:58 Stskeeps: missing things are as far as I can see: 1_Something like a forum or community friendly discussion board intended to cover most of the aspects of the project Feb 01 22:16:24 hirabayashitaro: language specific, I assume? Feb 01 22:16:44 Stskeeps: because mailing lists and bugttrackers are powerful tools, but a community of enthusiasts is sometimes scared of them Feb 01 22:17:38 wmarone: an english one should be good, language specific boards are supposed to born spontaneously Feb 01 22:17:48 because there is forum.meego.com Feb 01 22:18:33 wmarone: yes, but is quite poor, and there are only problem-solving related topics Feb 01 22:19:35 so perhaps the forums could use some expansion and categorization Feb 01 22:20:06 Stskeeps: 2_A more detailed description of the project compared to the official site, but less than the wiki which is very technical in approach Feb 01 22:21:35 wmarone: I think it should. Feb 01 22:23:55 Stskeeps: (who is probably idle) 3_As I said a worldwide perspective. Programmers and fans are not only in Europe and America. Same for companies . Feb 01 22:24:11 Stskeeps: I'll think about point 4 and 5 Feb 01 22:26:08 Well, I'm going. See you soon! Feb 01 22:27:04 試験頑張って Feb 01 22:27:27 hirabayashitaro, good night \o Feb 01 22:27:52 wmarone: はーい頑張ります Feb 01 22:36:00 I'm running meego-v1.1-netbooks on ExoPC with and without a USB mouse. Touchscreen works well with handset image on this HW, so hid_egalax driver is okay. With netbook image, it seems like either top launcher bar is working with touch and USB mouse, or rest of screen is working, but not both. Anyone else seen this? Feb 01 23:08:50 http://bashtube.ru/video/7088/ Feb 01 23:46:38 * pixelgeek thanks Alison_Chaiken for http://wiki.meego.com/Installing_MeeGo_Handset_image_on_WeTab_Tablet Feb 01 23:49:08 I've had some problems with the netbook image on the Lenovos, just trying to click near enough to the top bar to trigger it. Feb 01 23:49:45 The Windows key works nicely though to trigger it instead. Feb 01 23:49:57 pixelgeek, I heard from Intel that ExoPC is easier to bring up than WeTab, which is why I switched (also, not using my own money!). Feb 01 23:50:27 Yes - the ExoPC is much easier to work with. No Ploploader required. Feb 01 23:50:40 I'm finding that I get stuck in the top bar once I touch it. Just been turning on verbose mode of udev, etc. and reading up on mousedev, evdev and suchlike. Feb 01 23:51:12 Unfortunately, MS is out of stock of them right now. Feb 01 23:51:16 Didn't get WiFi working on WeTab, which didn't come with ath9k driver. Didn't try hard though. Feb 01 23:52:04 hid_egalax is statically compiled with handset image, but modprobing it with netbook should work, I would think. Feb 02 00:21:31 alterego, ping Feb 02 00:23:17 I may have, MAY have broken someone's web server Feb 02 00:28:04 twice Feb 02 00:28:11 or is it three times Feb 02 00:28:46 CosmoHill: anybody you know ? Feb 02 00:28:58 yeah he's my friend Feb 02 00:29:09 I go to ban someone on the forum for spamming and the server crashes Feb 02 00:29:33 lets hope he's stull your friend tomorrow :) Feb 02 00:34:26 http://forums.kustompcs.co.uk/showthread.php?p=483268#post483268 Feb 02 00:35:59 well, it was nice knowing you Feb 02 00:36:05 thanks Feb 02 00:36:43 I hear that the next life is much better than this one Feb 02 00:37:02 I''ll probably still bark up the wrong trees Feb 02 00:38:47 oh it's crashed again Feb 02 00:39:36 maybe its not you, maybe jsut periodical that coincides with the spamming frequency Feb 02 00:40:40 it was the one person I was trying to ban Feb 02 00:40:47 infact I banned him about lunch time Feb 02 00:41:21 vgrade, I have a pic here from one of the channels, for context which one because I cant seem to find it Feb 02 00:41:37 doh, its from twitter Feb 02 00:44:13 vgrade, is that your panda? Feb 02 00:46:05 lcuk, yup Feb 02 00:46:11 :D Feb 02 00:46:39 is the kernel complex, I know spyro has one at home but not even taken it out of its box yet Feb 02 00:47:03 lcuk, only had it a few days Feb 02 00:47:03 errr I mean, is configuration complex Feb 02 00:47:07 cool Feb 02 00:47:25 rom loader is insane, Feb 02 00:47:38 vgrade, I gather its similar to the beagle? Feb 02 00:47:39 it needs crazy CHS Feb 02 00:47:52 most systems do! Feb 02 00:47:53 spent a day getting it to boot meego Feb 02 00:48:29 :) Feb 02 00:48:37 mic2 is supposed to sort all that but I must have the wrong version or missing a patch Feb 02 00:48:58 anyway its sloooooooooooooooooow but good for the meeting I guess Feb 02 00:49:08 well thats what merge requests are for lol Feb 02 00:49:26 heh, the N900 today was in similar state Feb 02 00:49:36 it showed a great static screenshot of meego all day :P Feb 02 00:50:14 the x driver was a bit misconfigured I hear based on the MT patches Feb 02 00:51:24 don't know about that, N900 config after I've updated the Joggler to latest Feb 02 00:51:56 did you say you were thinking of making the meet tomorrow Feb 02 00:53:02 hmm Feb 02 00:53:23 wmarone, hi Feb 02 00:53:29 hi Feb 02 00:53:56 my vega has taken a bit of a back seat as I prep for the cambridge meet Feb 02 00:54:11 yeah Feb 02 00:54:30 I'm debating on keeping the thing, aside from short bursts of work it mostly sits idle Feb 02 00:54:46 the good thing is that what you learn on one port you can utilise in another Feb 02 00:55:06 my son puts it to use most of the time Feb 02 01:29:43 cyas **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 02 02:59:58 2011