**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 09 02:59:57 2011 Feb 09 06:06:17 So what's everyone's take on Meego and Nokia's "big change of direction" this Friday? Feb 09 06:06:56 there's enough rumours about that, better just wait and see what happens Feb 09 06:07:52 Hmmmm. Indeed. Feb 09 06:15:11 yep. Leave that speculation for techblogs and "analysts" Feb 09 06:15:36 Just curious what the mood on the ground is Feb 09 06:15:52 * timoph doesn't care :) Feb 09 06:16:03 So far, I'm getting "Not good" :/ Feb 09 06:17:28 Bugsbane: meego.com goes on nevertheless, imho Feb 09 06:17:46 Stskeeps: Thats what I'm hoping! Feb 09 09:06:49 hi Feb 09 09:07:03 http://www.myriadgroup.com/Media-Centre/News/Myriad-Announces-Alien%20Dalvik-Enables-Android-Apps-to-Run-on-Non-Android-Phones.aspx Feb 09 09:07:22 yeah, I saw that Feb 09 09:07:30 that's good for MeeGo, but not for Qt Feb 09 09:07:37 it's a bit like Linux and WINE, i think Feb 09 09:07:51 it's nice to have the applications but may demotivate people to develop for Linux Feb 09 09:07:51 :P Feb 09 09:08:22 i m agree Feb 09 09:10:24 it can be like a worm, people start with 'java' then swap to qt :) Feb 09 09:10:39 hopefully Feb 09 09:10:49 btw, there's a Qt port to Android too Feb 09 09:10:57 so you can run Qt apps on Android -- especially QML ones Feb 09 09:11:31 how's android market dealing with qt apps? Feb 09 09:11:33 out of curiousity Feb 09 09:11:58 I don't know Feb 09 09:12:11 k Feb 09 09:12:25 I'll ask my friends who have done work on that port Feb 09 09:12:35 I also know of one app in the iPhone App Store with Qt Feb 09 09:12:43 QtCore and QtNetwork, no GUI Feb 09 09:13:05 for ifruit it would need a commercial qt license though, right? Feb 09 09:13:53 dm8tbr: for mac? Feb 09 09:14:21 you can't buy a commercial license for something that isn't officially supported Feb 09 09:14:22 thiago_home: IIRC the ifruit store has a policy that no OSS is allowed Feb 09 09:14:44 so there's no iOS license that one can buy Feb 09 09:15:04 you can buy Qt for Mac licenses and use the Mac App Store (the new one) Feb 09 09:17:51 sivang: ping Feb 09 09:26:22 sivang: drop by in #qt-labs and explain why you needed the authentication cache clearing Feb 09 09:37:55 question Feb 09 09:38:33 I have an old PIIII laptop... can I install meego to try it? Feb 09 09:39:01 if it supports SSSE3 + has intel graphics Feb 09 09:39:10 that's three S's Feb 09 09:40:16 arfoll: uhm... I'm pretty sure about the intel graphics Feb 09 09:40:31 petrux, what's the exact CPU model? Feb 09 09:40:32 petrux: I guess you meant either pIII or pIV, both don't have SSE3, and while it should be possible to install it might fail randomly with funny errors Feb 09 09:40:48 PIV Feb 09 09:40:49 in fact Feb 09 09:40:53 Aard, i think some P4's prescott and later have SSE3 Feb 09 09:40:55 no SSSE3 :-( Feb 09 09:41:20 yeah i think SSSE3 is core marchitecture. sorry Feb 09 09:41:26 I'll switch it back to UbuntuStudio :-) Feb 09 09:41:31 nevermind Feb 09 09:43:26 arfoll: you're right, works since prescott. though can't remember seeing any of those systems in the wild lately Feb 09 09:43:51 Aard, i think people still use them as radiators Feb 09 09:44:49 arfoll: we had a few people working on pIV notebooks, but all of them pre-prescott. they got other boxes after string (!) started failing due to missing sse3 Feb 09 09:47:06 Uhm... I bought that laptop 8 years ago. NEVER had a problem. It *rained* on it and it is still "up and running". So... why should I drop it? II'm using it as a mock-veichle and as a music-machine. Feb 09 09:47:10 :-) Feb 09 10:13:01 jeremiah: ping Feb 09 10:14:59 moo raster Feb 09 10:16:39 DocScrutinizer: doczzzz! Feb 09 10:19:22 moo raster Feb 09 10:19:31 RST38h: burrrp! Feb 09 10:20:32 speaking of burp, munchtime! Feb 09 10:25:07 is there any progress on bug 12777? would be nice to get touch events working back in Qt applications or do I need to downgrade from daily trunk to some older meego release :) Feb 09 10:25:11 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12777 maj, High, ---, peng.li, NEW, [REG]IVI: QT apps not respond to touch events Feb 09 11:03:28 how can I do the equivalend of %if 0%{?meego_version} > 1.1 in yaml? Feb 09 11:48:49 Anyone knows any thing about Myriad Dalvik for meego ? will it be available as opensource or will it be strictly commercial ? Feb 09 11:48:55 doubt it'd be oss Feb 09 11:54:26 It could potentially be a boost for meego I guess but I wonde about licensing issues with Oracle Feb 09 12:15:27 meego development has stopped? Feb 09 12:15:37 nope Feb 09 12:16:20 at least Reuters is claiming this http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/09/nokia-meego-idUSLDE7180X420110209 Feb 09 12:16:55 meego development is definatly moving forward Feb 09 12:17:04 geez, rtfa Feb 09 12:17:19 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjTWQZgsuuQ Feb 09 12:17:22 An earlier device was canceled, not MeeGo Feb 09 12:17:29 oilinki: we're still here and at work.. Feb 09 12:17:38 ok. I really hope so! Feb 09 12:18:42 and yes. the reuters news can be read as first device, not the platform. Feb 09 12:19:24 "can be"? The third line of text says "Could unveil next MeeGo device later this week -analysts" Feb 09 12:20:19 It's pretty clear about a single device being canceled Feb 09 12:21:25 which isn't horribly unusual in a company.. Feb 09 12:21:30 ah.. ok. my mistake. sorry! I was reading the news from a finnish translation at first... I'll be quiet for now :) Feb 09 12:22:47 well, I didn't mean to sound so cranky, so I'm sorry too Feb 09 12:23:01 now let's all wait for The Announcement shall we? :) Feb 09 12:23:20 just a few days till MWC Feb 09 12:27:02 poutsi: no prob. I'm just a bit afraid nokia would drop meego and go for w7. Feb 09 12:27:58 i still really don't understand how anyone would want to base on windows ce and silverlight/xna Feb 09 12:28:01 :P Feb 09 12:28:38 my mac keeps telling me to update my silverlight and then telling me that they don't support powerpc anymore Feb 09 12:29:18 can't wait tomorrow Feb 09 12:29:33 the rumours must be HUGE then Feb 09 12:29:34 iekku: friday, isn't it Feb 09 12:30:21 Stskeeps, what comes on friday, we just have to live with that, but since the rumours are already this, they must be even worse tomorrow Feb 09 12:30:30 i do want to slap whoever put feature freeze weeks together with this announcement though Feb 09 12:30:34 :P Feb 09 12:31:10 not good for the mental health Feb 09 12:31:25 Heh Feb 09 12:31:45 Nokia haven't given up on MeeGo, I still bet it's their goal. Feb 09 12:31:51 Stskeeps: if they start changing timelines before the announcement, someone will be able to put 2+2 together Feb 09 12:34:48 personally I think Nokia have dropped the plans for ARM smartphone and are going to use Intel in the first meego device (bet it smartphone/tablet/netbook device) Feb 09 12:35:55 arkub: I personally disagree Feb 09 12:37:22 Stskeeps: so what'll happen with MeeGo? Feb 09 12:38:20 Venemo_N900: why do you think i'd know? :) Feb 09 12:38:38 meego goes on no matter what, isn't a bad system at all Feb 09 12:38:52 I just hope it will go on Feb 09 12:39:19 it would be bad for nokia if they became just another android/wincrap7 manufacturer Feb 09 12:39:44 would also be a huge waste of money Feb 09 12:40:00 but I don't really care about them that much, as long as meego becomes mainstream someday anyway. Feb 09 12:40:41 arfoll: Nokia shipping their "we need this to succeed to convince people we can compete in the next-gen mobile OS space" device on an hardware platform which isn't well known (to both work generally for mobile use cases, and within Nokia) would be madness. Feb 09 12:40:46 IMHO Feb 09 12:40:47 employees and time cost money Feb 09 12:41:13 Stskeeps: so if now Nokia quits, MeeGo would still go on, right? Feb 09 12:41:27 Stskeeps: but what happens if Inter quits too? Feb 09 12:41:37 s/ Inter/Intel Feb 09 12:41:43 can i run meego on android phone ? Feb 09 12:42:02 ngessia: if you can port it, yes Feb 09 12:42:02 nghtwsh: on some of them, yes. Feb 09 12:42:06 Jaffa, general consumer doesn't give a damn wether it's arm/intel Feb 09 12:42:19 also the bootloader is unlocked, Google Nexus phones are Feb 09 12:42:23 Venemo: Why should Intel quit? Feb 09 12:42:44 RST38h: they shouldn't, but neither should Nokia Feb 09 12:42:52 Venemo: And what makes you think Meego is so exclusive? Anyone with resources can come up with another Linux based mobile OS Feb 09 12:42:52 Guys... it really doesn't accomplish anything to speculate before Friday. Feb 09 12:43:06 Venemo: And how do you know what Nokia should or should not do? =) Feb 09 12:43:36 RST38h: right, I don't. however it is the right thing to do. Feb 09 12:43:36 nokia is hiring 66 meego dudes btw. Feb 09 12:44:11 can i get meego to run on a VM ? Feb 09 12:44:12 i would read that quite strong commitment to meego Feb 09 12:44:23 Venemo: Depends on your goals Feb 09 12:44:27 ngessia: there are guides on the wiki and forum Feb 09 12:44:42 Venemo: If your goal is to have a semi-open-source mobile OS, then yes Feb 09 12:45:08 Venemo: If your goal is to increase the market share and please investors, then you might choose a completley different approach Feb 09 12:46:03 Having said that, releasing YET ANOTHER Android or (god prohibit) WP7 phone is unlikely to make you a huge profit Feb 09 12:46:19 RST38h: agreed Feb 09 12:46:33 Not because they suck, but mostly becase the market is already crowded and you will not be able to offer anything new Feb 09 12:46:45 agreed Feb 09 12:46:47 maybe they'll just announce symbian EOL? Feb 09 12:46:55 Yea, right. Feb 09 12:47:13 The above does not automatically mean they will not switch to WP7 or Android Feb 09 12:47:49 right Feb 09 12:47:53 Their CEO may have other considerations (like, quickly doing what the investors want, insuring good bonus for himself, then leaving quickly) Feb 09 12:48:26 That is also a strategy, with a goal. Just because you do not like the goal, does not make it an unfeasible strategy :) Feb 09 12:49:13 Or maybe he will merge Nokia with Microsoft. Or, open a production line at the dark side of the Moon. We simply do not know. Feb 09 12:56:17 arfoll: They care if the battery life is shit. Feb 09 12:57:08 Jaffa, medfield batterry life should be competitive. saying x86 == terrible battery life is a little old ;-) Feb 09 12:57:39 mooretown power requirements are not as high as tegra2 Feb 09 12:59:53 arfoll: My point is that very few devices have shipped in the consumer space with that platform, so it's an unknown. It's also not what Nokia have experience with, so'd be a big risk; unless loads of Intel engineers have been working very closely at Nokia to tune every little last thing. Feb 09 13:00:02 arfoll: I don't rule it out, but it'd be risky. Feb 09 13:01:41 to me it makes sense if they use meego, why not put all of Intel's engineering to use since they're providing it! Feb 09 13:30:19 Jaffa: I 100% agree with you on those points Feb 09 13:31:56 launching a completely new hw-platform together with a new OS is so extremely risky, it is almost guaranteed to fail on first few deadlines / 00-devices Feb 09 13:33:06 Given that Nokia (assuming strategy doesn't change fundamentally in the MeeGo space) *need* MeeGo to make an impression, the risk would... Feb 09 13:34:02 What's acceptable risk at this point, though? Jumping in the sea and all that... Feb 09 13:34:03 it takes at least 2 prototypes usually, to get the hw platform stable Feb 09 13:35:31 jnwi: switching hw platform isn't jumping the sea, it's more like holding on to a rocket and hoping you can ride it Feb 09 13:36:11 jnwi: Indeed. Given the tone of Elop's memo... Feb 09 13:36:19 Doc, haha Feb 09 13:36:26 there's absolutely zero chances you can keep your timelines and don't face silicon bugs and whatnot Feb 09 13:37:33 jumping into thee sea? Feb 09 13:37:37 are they going for Mer? Feb 09 13:38:20 DocScrutinizer: I'm not entirely convinced. This *is* Intel x86 after all, despite the form factor. Are silicon bugs really that much more likely than with any new Intel chipset? ahem... Feb 09 13:38:28 Stskeeps: I've just placed an order for a .net book, want me to get you one too ;) Feb 09 13:38:29 and look at meego, though it's a supposedly 'simple' port of an almost identical system (wrt maemo) to a welknown hw, you see things get messed up by importing drivers and stuff from "upstream" that don't work together well with this known hw platform as they never were optimized for it Feb 09 13:38:35 Stskeeps: lol Feb 09 13:38:48 thiago: done Feb 09 13:39:08 DocScrutinizer: :) Feb 09 13:39:27 I wish people would stop telling me they will hire me if I do Andoird or iPhone :-) Feb 09 13:39:40 jnwi: that's showing nicely what can, and will, happen on such an endeavor: you are thinking of a new phone as a CPU with a screen and battery. It's WAY more than that Feb 09 13:40:01 DocScrutinizer: hehe Feb 09 13:40:08 DocScrutinizer: (read your second comment) Feb 09 13:41:41 first of all a battery powered device like a phone NEEDS to be designed from scratch to be *completely* IRQ driven Feb 09 13:42:01 It's quite true that it's more than that, but it's also true that Intel has been planning this ever since the first generation Atom launched Feb 09 13:42:09 and every single subsystem, every unused gate, has to enter low power state Feb 09 13:43:15 aiui for now meego sensorfw is based on a polling concept, and that will fubar handset UX power consumption until eventually it gets radically fixed Feb 09 13:43:33 And how is that a hardware issue? Feb 09 13:43:39 if you do same mistakes for hw design, fixing it is factor 1000 more expensive Feb 09 13:43:48 ah, that's what you meant Feb 09 13:44:20 jnwi: see, another good example. It's hw realted, as a proper concept needs to exploit sensor IRQs, not poll Feb 09 13:44:27 IRQ == hw Feb 09 13:45:12 uh, yeah, but if the software is doing polling, that's still a software issue Feb 09 13:45:24 you just missed to put IRQs to purpose though hw supports them. Imagine hw design forgot to implement proper IRQ for that Feb 09 13:45:44 Why the hell would a hardware design forget to implement that Feb 09 13:45:59 But like I said, I get your general point Feb 09 13:46:02 imagine it turns out your chosen chips don't support IRQs in the way you need Feb 09 13:46:29 that'S what I meant by silicon errata Feb 09 13:46:41 yeah, I'm getting your general point Feb 09 13:46:46 or general risk in launching a new hw platform Feb 09 13:52:34 Stskeeps, excuse me, the thing at http://www.talkandroid.com/134-android-nokia-n810-install/ - this is not nitdroid, is it? Feb 09 13:53:26 ancient android port Feb 09 13:54:16 it looks like it can dual boot though, nitdroid can't, right? Feb 09 13:54:46 what do i know Feb 09 13:54:46 :P Feb 09 13:54:53 what do you know? O.o Feb 09 13:55:03 yeah, never dealt with nitdroid Feb 09 13:55:37 Stskeeps: ah... sorry, i thought you were involved with it for some reason Feb 09 13:55:40 nop Feb 09 13:59:59 LjL: NITdroid can dual boot. But I don't know if it's compatible with the uboot dual boot of MeeGo/PR1.3 Feb 09 14:01:15 Jaffa: thanks. i'm actually on an N810 though, i asked here mainly because Stskeeps was here and i thought he was involved =) Feb 09 14:02:43 LjL: this is OT here. see #nitdroid Feb 09 14:05:56 df -h Feb 09 14:06:06 arf Feb 09 14:06:07 Hi Feb 09 14:36:57 hmm Feb 09 14:37:11 has anybody seen neil's post to -community? Feb 09 14:40:03 so much fake noise :) Feb 09 14:40:43 fake noise? I could sell you this barely used real additive white gaussian noise! Feb 09 14:41:08 my other offers include white and pink noise Feb 09 14:41:10 sivang, Which one? Feb 09 14:41:37 Ah Niels Mayer Feb 09 14:41:43 "what's happening with MeeGo?" Feb 09 14:41:52 I guess we find out on Friday Feb 09 14:42:07 Well, then we find out what's happening with Nokia Feb 09 14:42:10 Supposedly N9 was cancelled Feb 09 14:42:15 Jaffa, Indeed Feb 09 14:42:16 dneary: What happens with MeeGo is tightly coupled with that Feb 09 14:42:21 how can a device be cancelled that was never announced? Feb 09 14:42:34 dneary: Which is what we already knew Feb 09 14:42:40 dm8tbr: hehe! Feb 09 14:42:45 Stskeeps: I look forward to Nokia shipping the announced OMAP3 Harmattan device then ;-p Feb 09 14:42:45 MeeGo on ARM may well be dead in the water Feb 09 14:42:53 RST38h, You might have, I didn't Feb 09 14:42:57 dneary: The real question is whether Harmattan is cancelled Feb 09 14:43:01 dneary: says rueters? Feb 09 14:43:12 dneary: we're still on the job, so, doubt it Feb 09 14:43:19 Stskeeps, Easy - "The product is cancelled, we're cutting our losses. Move on!" Feb 09 14:43:19 N9 was cancelled? when? :) Feb 09 14:43:31 what's a n9? *scnr* Feb 09 14:43:37 sivang, Look up "reuters N9 cancelled" Feb 09 14:46:17 so I lost all previous comments due to lag, thansk freenode Feb 09 14:46:18 :) Feb 09 14:46:45 actually, my isp, freenode are okay. Feb 09 14:47:00 I'm out of the loop Feb 09 14:47:00 Jaffa: heh Feb 09 14:47:00 oh it is the us edition Feb 09 14:47:00 okay so now I wait anxiously for Friday Feb 09 14:47:01 dneary: surely the RM-680 was cancelled... the N9 may still appear (or maybe not, but that would be suicide in my books) Feb 09 14:47:15 RM-680 ? :) Feb 09 14:47:24 device name for what was to be the N9, apparently. Feb 09 14:47:36 ah yes, so says goole Feb 09 14:47:45 big difference between cancelling the RM-680, and cancelling the N9 Feb 09 14:48:34 yes, so changing the hardware not killing the project Feb 09 14:48:40 correct Feb 09 14:48:41 Milhouse, http://www.esphoneblog.com/2011/02/09/reuters-nokia-officially-kills-their-first-meego-phone/ Feb 09 14:48:52 difficult to kill something that does not exists Feb 09 14:49:27 yep seen it, just what the russian bogger was bogging about a week or two ago Feb 09 14:49:48 http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:NOK <- fun Feb 09 14:49:49 all rumours, speculation, conjecture Feb 09 14:50:12 I'm in denial! Feb 09 14:50:59 javispedro: Get out of Egypt, it's not safe! Feb 09 14:51:11 ;) Feb 09 14:51:15 Milhouse: bogger? :) Feb 09 14:51:41 sivang_: Sounds like an accurate description of eldar... Feb 09 14:51:43 sivang: well, most of what boggers write is utter toilet... :) Feb 09 14:51:48 now this is what I call FUD Feb 09 14:51:52 Hehe Feb 09 14:52:07 yes, what difference does it make for users if it is one platform or other? Feb 09 14:52:12 "kill first phone" Feb 09 14:52:27 that's like Daily Mail headlines Feb 09 14:52:28 i suppose that meant n900? Feb 09 14:53:22 Whatever it is, somebody needs to kick something out the door somewhere. Feb 09 14:53:34 MeeGo's long walk to irrelevance is growing shorter. Feb 09 14:54:58 it's nice to have buzz not just zzZzzZzz :) Feb 09 14:55:00 Stskeeps: so the stock has risen? Feb 09 14:55:07 Ans5i: hehe Feb 09 14:55:07 sivang_: quite Feb 09 14:55:11 try click 3d one Feb 09 14:55:16 here, talk about some real handset ux on real hardware - http://www.openaos.org/archives/666 ;) Feb 09 14:55:18 Stskeeps: I was retorical :) Feb 09 14:55:24 no need to spread gossip Feb 09 14:55:31 dm8tbr: nahh, we like gossip Feb 09 14:55:35 dm8tbr: and cnojucture Feb 09 14:55:40 :) Feb 09 14:55:41 Ans5i: Just not this kind of buzz... :) Feb 09 14:57:18 Stskeeps: I'd say there is a non-defition point in math speak :) Feb 09 14:58:21 Milhouse: haha Feb 09 14:58:30 Milhouse: (I have a delay, the stock fascinated me) Feb 09 14:58:34 Stskeeps: where the 3d? Feb 09 14:58:59 i wish friday was here already, would cut away most of the crap rumors Feb 09 14:59:09 toninikkanen: +1 Feb 09 14:59:22 sivang_: ok, 5d then Feb 09 14:59:38 don't count on it Feb 09 14:59:54 (cutting away rumors) Feb 09 15:00:18 toninikkanen: yes, I just realied it is not tomorrow as well Feb 09 15:00:19 well that i know, that nokia has not been most commented on crapget for a while. and now it is. Feb 09 15:01:13 Ans5i: right, crapgadet are starting to realize they will start to write a lot more about Nokia if they want to stay in the game :) Feb 09 15:01:18 i was using engadget as test data for an app i was making but i had to switch to something else since i was getting annoyed at the rumour news. i'll use aljazeera.com now Feb 09 15:01:36 toninikkanen: LOLOL, and I am saying this as an Israeli :) Feb 09 15:01:57 isnt meego KDE mobile channel ? Feb 09 15:02:05 toninikkanen: they are becoming not bad lately :-D Feb 09 15:02:16 toninikkanen: aljazeera does have less of an agenda than engadget... Feb 09 15:02:23 lol Feb 09 15:02:27 toninikkanen: go with www.dailyrotten.com, it has never failed to deliver Feb 09 15:02:40 and there's always the onion Feb 09 15:02:49 to learn about Apple's new directions Feb 09 15:03:10 And the BBC for all the latest Apple news Feb 09 15:03:16 The Onion is actually future news, camouflaged as satire Feb 09 15:04:02 RST38h: indeed. Feb 09 15:04:45 Speaking of Apple news: http://gizmodo.com/#!5755736/gramophone-style-comes-to-iphone-with-arkcanary-ii Feb 09 15:05:22 some one once told me linux is just a test bed for apple softwaer Feb 09 15:06:03 who'd thunk it?! :) Feb 09 15:06:18 Anyone watch BBC Click? I do, though not sure why. They have a segment at the end, covering the web, where they highlighted some mobile app showing OS logos on the companies website where they have support for iOS, Android, Blackberry and Symbian yet only the first three were considered worthy of a mention on BBC Click... I tweeted @click asking why they neglected to mention support for Symbian, Feb 09 15:06:18 but just got blanked which sums up the BBC. Feb 09 15:07:02 "sums up the BBC and their attitude towards Nokia/Symbian/etc" Feb 09 15:07:28 BBC = anglo saxon hype channel Feb 09 15:07:33 moo, qgil Feb 09 15:07:45 morning RST38h Feb 09 15:07:48 this is the same attitude here, although the E7 is marketed nicely as a first symbian device to emerge in commercials and web ads Feb 09 15:07:49 ngessia: eh? Feb 09 15:08:15 ngessia: sometimes useful, but useless for tech Feb 09 15:09:26 toninikkanen, unless it's accompanied by meaningful information, I doubt it. :) Feb 09 15:09:47 ngessia: mmm yes, your comment could be taken in several ways - are you saying they hype the anglo saxon? I'll stop paying my licence fee in that case, as I'm left out! Feb 09 15:10:30 Milhouse: Then the anglo saxons will come to your house with pitchforks and get medieval on you! Feb 09 15:10:46 :) Feb 09 15:10:50 RST38h: I'll go Viking on them in that case. :) Feb 09 15:11:06 and in the end the police will arrest both the french and the british.. no wait Feb 09 15:11:08 Or maybe Braveheart. Feb 09 15:11:37 there can be only 1 Feb 09 15:12:06 I like Viking Lines ship, so red and pretty Feb 09 15:12:06 to rule them all Feb 09 15:13:48 its the pitch fork vs the axes battlel Feb 09 15:14:58 Axes. Feb 09 15:15:24 i think google should be sueed by using free softwear and turning it proprietary TM Feb 09 15:16:04 by= for Feb 09 15:17:12 android, WP7, no - we're forgetting the -real- dive into the unknown, rebase on Mer: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_0BICmUIFTZU/Sm2WuMtJRPI/AAAAAAAAAD4/iw9Q6cSV490/mer_artwork43.jpg Feb 09 15:17:13 one of the gpl rules is to give back any modificationbs to the doftwear back to the community Feb 09 15:17:16 :P Feb 09 15:17:19 ngessia: android isn't gpl Feb 09 15:17:30 but its based on gpl Feb 09 15:17:41 not really Feb 09 15:17:44 the linux kernel is gpl Feb 09 15:17:50 yes, but that only goes for the kernel Feb 09 15:18:09 it's irrelevant because vendors have shown they don't care about licensing and respecting them Feb 09 15:18:17 most gnu toolkit is gpl also Feb 09 15:18:35 ngessia: they don't use a typical gnu userland Feb 09 15:18:50 they dont use typical kernel either Feb 09 15:19:00 they did changes to the kernel to support BIGFILES or something, but they released it no? Feb 09 15:19:22 or BIGFS, whatever they call it these days Feb 09 15:19:31 * slaine laughes at milo's email to community Feb 09 15:19:32 sivang, i suggest : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#Linux_compatibility Feb 09 15:19:57 arfoll: I was taking about their inhouse file systems Feb 09 15:20:12 arfoll: but I guess if they don't sell it they don't need to release nothing Feb 09 15:20:44 "Android's kernel was derived from Linux but has been tweaked by Google outside the main Linux kernel tree" Feb 09 15:20:52 what does this mean in practice? Feb 09 15:21:06 that they develoepd outside of the kernel tree and so they do not need to put back changes? Feb 09 15:21:08 it means that drivers written for android don't work in linux Feb 09 15:21:44 i think the gpl stats all drivative work has to be given back to the comunity Feb 09 15:21:49 greg KG on the topic : http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/android-kernel-problems.html Feb 09 15:22:05 ngessia: nop Feb 09 15:22:06 ngessia: it does, and the android SDK does include the kernel source Feb 09 15:22:10 oh and there's there the copy paste of java code from Oracle Feb 09 15:22:23 Android is licensed under Apache2, no? Feb 09 15:22:36 ngessia: but the GPL talks about the community at large, not any specific grouping within it. Feb 09 15:22:38 Milhouse, parts of the OS written by google yes Feb 09 15:23:03 thats what i was refering to Feb 09 15:23:09 this mer looks pretty Feb 09 15:24:15 * sivang -> out Feb 09 15:31:16 I mujst laugh every time someone misspells Maemo with "Meamo". This time is no less than The Register. Meamo = "ilovemyself" in Spanish Feb 09 15:32:33 The Register, that pinnacle of internet journalism Feb 09 15:33:06 Nah, that's The Inquirer (.net) Feb 09 15:34:57 The Register is not the worst I have read - but these days most of them are scoring pretty low, I must say :) Feb 09 15:35:18 Is that because they're so far off base, Quim? ;-) Feb 09 15:35:55 i think friday evening will probably be a good time for beers, no matter what Feb 09 15:36:50 Milhouse, ha. Feb 09 15:37:16 GAN900: Well, it was worth a try. :) Feb 09 15:37:35 Stskeeps: sorry but I don't do beers for breakfast Feb 09 15:37:50 didn't say which timezone ;) Feb 09 15:38:39 man, the nokia proxy is unstable today Feb 09 15:38:59 Stskeeps: sorry, I assumed IRC timezone Feb 09 15:39:02 hehe Feb 09 15:39:49 today I found out I am constantly misreading "memo" as "maemo" Feb 09 15:40:03 as in, the burning platform maemo Feb 09 15:40:44 I never got how to pronounce it, is it may-no or is it my-mo Feb 09 15:41:00 s/may-no/may-mo/ Feb 09 15:41:00 slaine meant: I never got how to pronounce it, is it may-mo or is it my-mo Feb 09 15:41:20 may-mo, i think Feb 09 15:41:24 finding maemo, but with an n. Feb 09 15:41:27 maybe it was misspell on elops memo and it was meant to say burning maemo and putting fate to meego:) Feb 09 15:41:37 s/n./m./ Feb 09 15:41:38 Milhouse meant: finding maemo, but with an m. Feb 09 15:41:43 oh never mind. Feb 09 15:41:49 confusing myself now. Feb 09 15:43:09 slaine, given it was invented by a Spaniard and delivered by a Finnish company, I'd argue "my-mo" is most correct (given that it's an invented word). Feb 09 15:43:33 i thought it was invented by a random number generator? Feb 09 15:43:35 It's certainly the most common pronunciation. Feb 09 15:43:50 Milhouse, password generator being run by a Spaniard. Feb 09 15:44:09 what's the story behind this ? Feb 09 15:44:12 I've always said it like Stskeeps, may-mo. But all the Fins and qgil seemed to say my-mo at meegoconf Feb 09 15:44:19 ah, that Balaric influence flowed through the keyboard, obviously. Feb 09 15:44:30 or maybe it was Galician Feb 09 15:44:55 i am using the finnish pronunciation.. and that is, of course, mae-mo Feb 09 15:45:04 m a e m o, each vowel standing on its own feet without any saxxon diftongs Feb 09 15:45:07 (but to get this you have to NOT read this with English mode in your head) Feb 09 15:45:18 Anybody got the blog post handy? Feb 09 15:45:40 ie. the 1994 recording from Linus Torvalds on how to pronounce Linux.. comes to mind Feb 09 15:45:46 so, in simple terms, is it me-mo or may-mo? Feb 09 15:45:48 or neither? Feb 09 15:45:59 http://stezz.blogspot.com/2008/10/where-maemo-is-coming-from.html Feb 09 15:46:37 and will it really matter come saturday? ;) Feb 09 15:47:26 (anyone from nokia, feel free to chime in at this point) Feb 09 15:50:01 ? Feb 09 16:00:18 Milhouse, my-mo, basically. Feb 09 16:00:34 There's a third syllable in the middle of some people's pronunciation, though. Feb 09 16:01:06 GAN900: Thanks, that's how I say it although sometimes I slip and say me-mo. Feb 09 16:01:21 I've cured myself of may-mo. Feb 09 16:02:02