**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 11 02:59:57 2011 Feb 11 03:05:28 can someone link me to the meego virtual keyboard source? Feb 11 03:13:02 Anyone here know anything about the plans for N900 GPS on MeeGo? There is documentation at www.wirelessmodemapi.com for the "modem LCS Server" but it doesn't seem to be correct for the N900 cellmo firmware. I also cant work out what versions of AT_MODEM_ISI_VERSION, SMS_ISI_VERSION etc match the N900 Feb 11 03:25:13 mrlrmrlmr Feb 11 04:02:58 jonwil: dunno about the techical details but the feature for location stuff is still open: https://bugs.meego.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=5747&hide_resolved=1 Feb 11 04:20:06 Will add something to the relavent bug (bug 11796 is about GPS on N900) Feb 11 04:20:10 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11796 nor, Medium, ---, carsten, NEW, GeoClue & Qt Mobility Location API non-functional on Nokia N900 Feb 11 07:11:20 any news on the future of meego yet? Feb 11 07:11:35 toadpole: same as always Feb 11 07:11:39 we're at work and working Feb 11 07:12:23 i'd be completely gutted if they killed meego Feb 11 07:12:38 been using nokias for 15 years, can't use anything else.. certainly not wp7 Feb 11 07:14:50 yeah, well, we'll see soon Feb 11 07:25:22 20mins till cancellation? Feb 11 07:25:55 meego isn't exclusively a nokia project, you now Feb 11 07:26:40 I think meego has enough momentum to be a success without Nokia. In fact, I think it can be a successful embedded Linux distro for mobile without handsets. Feb 11 07:27:40 i think meego can go on along as qt isn't ditched for whatever reason, either way, it's shaping up to be a very nice distro to build products using Feb 11 07:29:16 i started the meego rescue mode on my n900 through an initrd. The led shines yellow when booted. Is that a sign that it is charging? Feb 11 07:36:20 nokia microsoft partnership official Feb 11 07:36:37 http://conversations.nokia.com/ Feb 11 07:36:50 video on the right Feb 11 07:37:18 so metoo instead of meego, what a vision Feb 11 07:41:17 balmer makes reference to nokia wp7 phone Feb 11 07:41:32 • Nokia will adopt Windows Phone as its primary smartphone strategy, innovating on top of the platform in areas such as imaging, where Nokia is a market leader. Feb 11 07:41:35 "primary" Feb 11 07:41:36 :( Feb 11 07:41:54 so the Meego device cancelled or will just be another N900? Feb 11 07:42:18 read all of it, they're still shipping a meego device this year Feb 11 07:43:32 http://www.4-traders.com/NOKIA-6468/news/NOKIA-outlines-new-strategy-introduces-new-leadership-operational-structure-13558600/ Feb 11 07:43:47 fuuuuuuuuuuuu Feb 11 07:44:04 *facepalm* Feb 11 07:44:34 noklasoft(tm) Feb 11 07:45:27 poutsi: press release does not mention meego Feb 11 07:45:30 hmm Feb 11 07:46:19 but devtools from ms, i wonder what will happen with qt, sold to ms and than forgotten... Feb 11 07:46:41 poutsi: i cant find any word about meego Feb 11 07:47:03 so will the meego device be another N900 or will it be totally scrapped? Feb 11 07:47:04 * sivang can't believe the news Feb 11 07:47:37 can't be arsed to find it but I did read that somewhere Feb 11 07:48:07 poutsi: yes, but that is "old" news now Feb 11 07:48:22 elop did pee in its pants for warm Feb 11 07:48:39 Well MeeGo will still live, but any shot of MeeGo becoming popular on mobile phones from Nokia is a lost cause now Feb 11 07:48:53 "Under the new strategy, MeeGo becomes an open-source, mobile operating system project. MeeGo will place increased emphasis on longer-term market exploration of next-generation devices, platforms and user experiences. Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year." Feb 11 07:49:22 At least they didn't kill MeeGo outright. Feb 11 07:49:30 so all the rumors were right... about meego going to be shed out Feb 11 07:49:31 sounds like an N1000 to me Feb 11 07:49:35 another geek phone Feb 11 07:49:40 T1000 Feb 11 07:49:55 1000b Feb 11 07:50:17 if ms is involved meego will become a enemy. Feb 11 07:50:42 aholler: I am sure M$ will license all its linux patents to Nokia Feb 11 07:51:26 why should nokia need them? Feb 11 07:51:44 coz elop said so Feb 11 07:52:01 "Under the new strategy, MeeGo becomes an open-source, mobile operating system project. MeeGo will place increased emphasis on longer-term market exploration of next-generation devices, platforms and user experiences. Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year." Feb 11 07:52:20 Mece_: where did you find that? Feb 11 07:52:30 #meego-arm Feb 11 07:52:31 _1_ product Feb 11 07:52:32 "becomes"? Feb 11 07:52:44 its from the pressrelease here: http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1488004 Feb 11 07:52:46 this year Feb 11 07:53:15 so basically there will be one meego product. it better be awesome. Feb 11 07:53:47 zma, maybe so, but what's the point when they are selling their competitor also next to MeeGo phones. Feb 11 07:54:02 that's like soaking matches in gasoline Feb 11 07:54:53 meego is a "project" now.... Feb 11 07:55:17 Smart Devices will be responsible for building Nokia's leadership in smartphones and will be led by Jo Harlow. The following sub-units now in Mobile Solutions will move under Smart Devices: Feb 11 07:55:18 - Symbian Smartphones Feb 11 07:55:18 - MeeGo Computers Feb 11 07:55:18 - Strategic Business Operations Feb 11 07:55:26 interesting Feb 11 07:55:28 meego is listed under computers now in the new structure Feb 11 07:55:39 comawhite, obviously there wasn't enough fire on oil platform yet ;) Feb 11 07:55:57 I rather seen a Google partnership than with Microsoft Feb 11 07:56:38 " Nokia will adopt Windows Phone as its primary smartphone strategy, innovating on top of the platform in areas such as imaging, where Nokia is a market leader." Feb 11 07:56:42 Fun little note: WP7 is the only "smartphone" OS that isn't POSIX-compatible. (or around so) Feb 11 07:56:46 Too bad WP7 and meego will be in the same organizational group. It sounds like the split is smartphones (WP7 and MeeGo) plus featurephones (*still* Symbian). Feb 11 07:56:50 hence /Primary/ Feb 11 07:58:06 and so much potential for "synergy" between them Feb 11 07:58:10 so i guess we can forget Qt and start learning C# ... Feb 11 07:59:00 I suspect Qt is now a *larger* part of Nokia's strategy, but I have no inside knowledge whatever. Feb 11 07:59:39 zma: ?:) Feb 11 07:59:40 at least I now know what will be my next phone, surely android. Feb 11 08:01:00 It is of no benifit to NOkia this deal, Feb 11 08:01:11 it is massive benifit for MS Feb 11 08:01:13 where is teh full announcment with the organizational changes? Feb 11 08:01:20 i have the feeling that elop was a troyan horse Feb 11 08:01:33 still on hte payroll of MS Feb 11 08:02:30 so embedded visual basic into html pages? :) Feb 11 08:02:31 what happens to meego now since nokia drops it? Feb 11 08:02:49 there's not going to be a meego smartphone, is there? Feb 11 08:02:53 "#MeeGo will place increased emphasis on longer-term market exploration of next-generation devices, platforms and user experiences" Feb 11 08:03:01 says Stskeeps :) Feb 11 08:03:23 "Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year." Feb 11 08:03:38 from: http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1488004 Feb 11 08:03:39 a product Feb 11 08:03:39 * av500CDGS still plans to finish hiw PhD one day... Feb 11 08:03:45 plans. But WP7 is primary now Feb 11 08:03:52 one product Feb 11 08:03:55 they probably not concentrate on MeeGo Feb 11 08:04:08 as far as i'm concerned, Nokia can now kiss my ass Feb 11 08:04:23 they wanted to differentiate and this is surely a good way to do that Feb 11 08:04:50 two turkeys do not make an eagle, as google VP said Feb 11 08:05:52 a bit ironic the wish is to give a better user experience and to save things when this strategy for me looks the complete opoosite Feb 11 08:08:13 Its a shame that letter was not delivered in his handwriting. Feb 11 08:08:49 the leadership would be close to impossilbe to regain with non posix based os, where the rest are Feb 11 08:08:51 sivang: it does saves thing for MS... Feb 11 08:09:27 this is blowing up the platform and shootinf the guy who jumped to to cold water...:/ Feb 11 08:09:35 If Nokia wanted to kill whats left of their smartphone business, adopting Windows Mobile is the way to do it Feb 11 08:09:37 *shooting Feb 11 08:09:42 jonwil: I agree Feb 11 08:10:07 I wish I knew who the head of "MeeGo Computers" will be since it's not Alberto Torres. Feb 11 08:10:23 headless computers Feb 11 08:10:32 perhaps the plan is to work with MS for the meanwhile, and then when meego is ripe to put it back to be the best show in town? Feb 11 08:10:40 lol Feb 11 08:11:02 sivang, that's the best face I can put on it. MeeGo will face much less competition in IVI, for example. Feb 11 08:11:14 Alison_Chaiken: did he talk about IVI? Feb 11 08:11:35 so nokia will release a car? Feb 11 08:11:36 sivang, I have the same info as you. Feb 11 08:11:41 running meego? Feb 11 08:11:43 does anybody know people who buy WP7 smartphones? Feb 11 08:11:45 anyone know whats happening at Nokia's MeeGo dev team? Feb 11 08:12:04 sivang: I played once with one, the UI is nice Feb 11 08:12:05 ( sivang ): i know a guy who bought the HTC WP7 phone Feb 11 08:12:07 toadpole, Nokia employees have a briefing in 9.5 hours. Feb 11 08:12:10 he's happy with it Feb 11 08:12:22 So... Symbian died today. Meego is going to die. WP7 is not born yet Feb 11 08:12:43 ( Alison_Chaiken ): are you part of it? Feb 11 08:12:53 so maybe in due time, the UI from ms will be combined with meego and that is the plan? Feb 11 08:12:57 Alex-Meego, again, meego!=nokia Feb 11 08:13:02 toadpole, part of what? If I wake up in time, I will attend the briefing. Feb 11 08:13:10 but since no committment is made it leaves the time for more work for r&d? Feb 11 08:13:15 ( Alison_Chaiken ): the dev team, that is Feb 11 08:13:16 Alison_Chaiken: and symbian really wont die Feb 11 08:13:21 sivang, that's my read. Feb 11 08:13:24 I know. But Nokia financed also in this project Feb 11 08:13:33 morn wazd Feb 11 08:13:37 jesus christ, what's hap0ening in the world Feb 11 08:13:49 stskeeps: heya Feb 11 08:13:49 wazd: hell has frozen Feb 11 08:13:58 you know, i was planning on buying the e7 later today Feb 11 08:14:06 i think i'll just get an android Feb 11 08:14:09 any suggestions? Feb 11 08:14:19 I will eat a lot of turkey during easter Feb 11 08:14:21 go troll somewhere else Feb 11 08:14:29 saidinesh5, I totally don't understand Symbian being split between "Symbian Smartphones" in "Smart Devices" and the "Mobile Phones" unit. I guess MP gets S60 and S40 and the evergreen Symbian 3 goes to "Smart Devices." Feb 11 08:14:32 stskeeps: any blood baths in your area? :) Feb 11 08:14:46 wazd: i'm not sure if we are bought or sold yet Feb 11 08:15:22 toadpole, I had a new coworker join the MeeGo team in Sunnyvale yesterday. Tomorrow we should check nokia.taleo.net and see what job openings look like . . . Feb 11 08:15:46 Alison_Chaiken: I wonder what would the breifing be Feb 11 08:16:59 sivang, I have no idea. Probably no new info, just rehash, is my guess! Feb 11 08:17:05 right Feb 11 08:17:20 People who brief us will probably be told to calm us down but not give us new facts. Feb 11 08:17:30 Alison_Chaiken: how good is s60's Qt support? Feb 11 08:18:02 still thinking about meego for the future, switching to a platform that's not there yet and has low adoption, is kind of against reason or maybe WP7 is as good as andriod? (I never touched one so I would not know) Feb 11 08:18:14 saidinesh5, people I trust say Qt works well on all Symbian and that it's easy to deploy apps across all the platforms, but I'm the wrong one to ask. Feb 11 08:18:35 in Helsinki Stock Market Nokia has taken a hit of -11% and still sinking Feb 11 08:18:56 sivang, some companies were set to announce meego products in Barcelona. Will be fascinating now to see what comes out of Barcelona this week. Feb 11 08:19:37 nokia stock -9% OMX Feb 11 08:19:42 hmm... well if S60's Qt support is good enough, then may be MP getting S60 and Symbian 3 going to smart devices , else i think Symbian 3 on both mobile phones and smart devices Feb 11 08:19:44 11??? Feb 11 08:19:47 ok Feb 11 08:19:48 this is also a way to scare out the developers who were following open development models with Nokia..:/ yet a new platform, new sdk (MFC?) Feb 11 08:19:50 ouch Feb 11 08:20:06 saidinesh5: so why WP7 as well? Feb 11 08:20:23 sivang: not really? iirc Mono has WP7 support right? Feb 11 08:20:38 saidinesh5: YOu tel me, I don't know :) Feb 11 08:20:47 Mece_: nokia stock -9% OMX << and it s not enough ! Feb 11 08:20:54 Morning all ! Feb 11 08:21:01 i dnno much sivang... Feb 11 08:21:02 what a cruel news ! Feb 11 08:21:06 khertan: heya Feb 11 08:21:25 I just don't get wtf was that Feb 11 08:22:02 wazd: me neither, it seems like a kind of a mistake or a bad dream? :) Feb 11 08:22:09 * Khertan think it ll be time to stop learning QML and start to see at an other framework Feb 11 08:22:32 http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1488004 Feb 11 08:22:36 Khertan: I hope not Feb 11 08:22:57 Khertan: Qt runs well on windows, though Feb 11 08:23:13 Khertan: QML still runs on symbian and it is getting really good.. Feb 11 08:23:17 in case u missed the press release :) Feb 11 08:23:20 what an horrible morning : I guess I'll need to check on WebOS side now ... Feb 11 08:23:40 so is meego effectively dead now? that "meego becomes an open source operating system" sounds like dead dead dead Feb 11 08:23:41 VladNistor, "you" not "u" Feb 11 08:23:51 chouchoune: and probably fork qt Feb 11 08:23:56 pgquiles: we're already a open source os Feb 11 08:24:02 pgquiles, it's not, but you might consider it on Nokia phones now Feb 11 08:24:22 meego isnt just mobile phone pgquiles Feb 11 08:24:24 ah, the speculations continue... Feb 11 08:24:39 dm8tbr, what speculations? Feb 11 08:24:46 saidinesh5: yep ... but starting dev for a dead plateform is probably not the best idea :) Feb 11 08:24:51 comawhite: e.g. about where meego is going Feb 11 08:24:56 oh Feb 11 08:24:58 my bad comawhite Feb 11 08:25:15 VladNistor, it's cool, sorry I just hate lazy typed English Feb 11 08:25:25 http://conversations.nokia.com/images/Nokia-10-2-11-SLE-14.jpg <- the ultimate trollface Feb 11 08:25:39 * sivang recalls with irony the talk Futurice gave on developing qt on windows ce http://qt.nokia.com/developer/learning/online/talks/developerdays2010/tech-talks/qt-for-cross-platform-mobile-development Feb 11 08:25:49 I do too, but i just got the breaking news from the FT and thought you might like it sooner rather than later :)) Feb 11 08:26:28 and i used you when pasting the link in #maemo. Feb 11 08:26:57 Khertan: really, i dnt think symbian is dead.... i mean thats where Nokia still sells...... so QML++ i guess Feb 11 08:27:05 It's not April 1st yet Nokia :(((( Feb 11 08:28:13 sivang: wince != wp7 ;) Feb 11 08:28:25 thp: it's actually a wince base Feb 11 08:28:26 :P Feb 11 08:28:54 nokia is now a m$ subsidiary, elop got his old chief back ;) Feb 11 08:29:13 http://mynokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/elop-600x480.jpg Feb 11 08:29:18 didn't know that ;) but then, the ui layer is probably (hopefully?) a different one these days Feb 11 08:29:25 morning Feb 11 08:29:31 thp: Stskeeps tells me wp7 is on wince foundations or so :) Feb 11 08:29:37 at least wikipedia claims it Feb 11 08:30:19 He talks about jumping from a plateform in fire into the sea, and instead he run into the fire Feb 11 08:30:50 Stskeeps: it is last i knew Feb 11 08:31:03 Khertan: jumping onto the ice, you mean Feb 11 08:31:08 Stskeeps: so.... meego is... dead? :) Feb 11 08:31:15 raster: mate! Feb 11 08:31:16 sivang, Stskeeps: yep, just read it on wikipedia now. Feb 11 08:31:18 raster: the verdict is still not reached Feb 11 08:31:34 av500: yo! Feb 11 08:31:42 well at least one meego device they claim Feb 11 08:31:46 sivang: probably :) Feb 11 08:31:52 raster: maybe they will make a fridge with WP7 Feb 11 08:32:00 the stock clearly shows this is a business suicide..but surely there are more folks in NOkia then elop to decide on such things? Feb 11 08:32:09 MeeGo will be a lab project Feb 11 08:32:09 Stskeeps: well if windows phone 7 is now the principal smartphone strategy.. or so i read on engadget.. wither meego? :) Feb 11 08:32:11 so how is the NOK1V stock now? Feb 11 08:32:31 raster: well, they claim it'll continue Feb 11 08:32:33 av500: hehehe Feb 11 08:32:37 Mece_: -11% Feb 11 08:32:43 * sivang restarts learning to MFC and winforms. At least C++ is stil useful :) Feb 11 08:32:53 Stskeeps: smells of a very not-winning strategy for nok. Feb 11 08:33:02 Shadikka: as i thought.. not winning strategy :) Feb 11 08:33:11 raster: not a nokia employee but refreshing my CV is probably a good idea Feb 11 08:33:11 well that smells like that is the opinion of the market :) Feb 11 08:33:21 Stskeeps: hhehehe Feb 11 08:33:25 sure Feb 11 08:34:11 i was just curious what "direction" nokia woudl take Feb 11 08:34:16 its happene dbeforew with maemo Feb 11 08:34:23 it was all gtk/gnome stuff Feb 11 08:34:29 and then suddenyl tolltech was bought Feb 11 08:34:42 and then goodbye g-world, hello q-world Feb 11 08:34:54 So let's see, to develop for all dominant phone platforms now you need to know Java for Android, XNA/Silverlight/whatever for WP7 and ObjC for iOS. Feb 11 08:34:54 now that looks to me like a "hello win-world" :) Feb 11 08:35:47 hahah http://www.nasdaqomxnordic.com/shares/shareinformation?Instrument=HEX24311 Feb 11 08:35:53 I have a feeling that this is the oppinion of the US market :\ Feb 11 08:37:33 Funny, I thought US market was the one that wanted WP7 Feb 11 08:38:22 ShadowJK: i don't think Feb 11 08:38:47 we have a great ecosystem, why not just make it better instead of plundging into an unpopular platform and try to create an ecosystemwith it? Feb 11 08:38:47 (as far as anyone at all would want wp7) Feb 11 08:38:59 WP7 to me is just a rushed out OS that is still not even close to completion Feb 11 08:39:06 WP7 = Vista heh Feb 11 08:39:52 so how come there is oging to be an attempt to make it what meego "couldn't", while it is light years back? Feb 11 08:40:52 let me read the whole press releasy goop Feb 11 08:44:46 anyway, time to go relax a bit Feb 11 08:44:52 cheers all, keep the faith Feb 11 08:46:26 I would have been fine keeping the faith for one more year in hope for something that can turn Nokia around. This decision has shattered my dreams :\ Feb 11 08:46:35 http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/02/11/letter-to-developers?sf1066337=1 Feb 11 08:47:49 http://conversations.nokia.com/nokia-strategy-2011 Feb 11 08:47:58 How does this affect MeeGo-s future? Feb 11 08:49:21 Maybe less resources put into MeeGo? Feb 11 08:50:55 look Ballmer can't say "Nokia" right in the video :D Feb 11 08:51:29 it's already done? nokia drop meego? Feb 11 08:52:07 niala1: yes, please return your n900, so it can be wiped from it Feb 11 08:52:24 yes, congratulations to mr elop, the man who killed nokia Feb 11 08:52:39 suy, well he's ex-MS would do you expect? Feb 11 08:52:41 ah, it's troll friday XXL Feb 11 08:53:07 i wont get any work done today Feb 11 08:53:23 av500: fix my 720p dammit Feb 11 08:53:34 :) Feb 11 08:54:18 and now all the phone on earth are asian or us. europeen finish :/ Feb 11 08:55:56 yes, finish Feb 11 08:56:10 or finnish? Feb 11 08:56:31 lol finish finnish Feb 11 08:57:22 I HATE JAVA, I HATE WINDOWS, windows sucks since win95 Feb 11 08:57:35 itsuckedbefore too Feb 11 08:57:41 maybe we should all join #nokia and bash Elop there Feb 11 08:57:47 niala1: WebOS Feb 11 08:58:10 Khertan: webos = cloud ? Feb 11 08:58:14 niala1: since android 2.3 you can write apps in pure C++ Feb 11 08:58:57 pfff one year of work for nothing, Feb 11 08:59:13 niala1: or native apps Feb 11 08:59:23 so Feb 11 08:59:28 is meego dead yet? Feb 11 08:59:35 what about intel anyway? Feb 11 08:59:40 and now meego is only like another distro Feb 11 08:59:54 perhaps an intel phone. ..? Feb 11 08:59:55 Shapeshifter: seems a device is still planned for 2011. Feb 11 08:59:59 are there any intel press releases? Feb 11 09:00:04 Khertan: by intel, right? Feb 11 09:00:08 Shapeshifter: still a sidelined product Feb 11 09:00:13 niala1, it had one nice thing though :) liqbase has a little carryable wall now :) Feb 11 09:00:14 Shapeshifter: oh ? by Intel ? Feb 11 09:00:15 Khertan, lankku maybe. tablet afaik. Feb 11 09:00:18 ( Khertan ): keyword being 'device', not 'phone' Feb 11 09:00:19 Khertan: I don't know Feb 11 09:00:23 Mece_: pray, but atom kill battery Feb 11 09:00:27 toadpole: ouch Feb 11 09:00:29 Isn't the N9 still going to run MeeGo? Feb 11 09:00:45 Glavata: it's going to run windows 95 Feb 11 09:00:50 plus Feb 11 09:00:51 no more n9 Feb 11 09:01:03 toadpole: wat Feb 11 09:01:04 Shapeshifter ooh perfect! Can't wait! :| Feb 11 09:01:09 it's been cancelled Feb 11 09:01:13 >.> Feb 11 09:01:16 oh dear Feb 11 09:01:18 Glavata, well afaik there are 2 meego devices. tablet laatta and N9-01 "Lankku" Feb 11 09:01:21 where did you see that N9 is canceled? Feb 11 09:01:28 one of them will be released, maybe. Feb 11 09:01:32 yeah thought so Feb 11 09:01:39 :D ,,,,,, http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/4692/nokiaphone.jpg Feb 11 09:01:42 hang on, i'll look for the link Feb 11 09:02:03 Shapeshifter though I don't know why they would go with Win95 when you got Win ME :D Feb 11 09:02:27 Glavata: oh right, since ME is much more recent. It's top notch, or so they claimed Feb 11 09:02:30 galvata, N9 is many devices. rumor is n9-00 (the leaked one) got canceled Feb 11 09:02:39 lbt, :) Feb 11 09:03:08 How did they think this move was a good one Feb 11 09:03:18 now since they will only release one meego device, I'm guessing the tablet. not sure though. Feb 11 09:03:23 like.. this is such a dumb idea Feb 11 09:03:53 dotblank: i'm hoping elop is doing a dick move to kill WP7 instead Feb 11 09:03:53 :P Feb 11 09:04:00 http://www.gsmarena.com/nokias_first_meego_device_n9_dropped_before_its_even_official-news-2307.php is one, but i did read a confirmation somewhere, i'm looking for it Feb 11 09:04:00 but that's just dreaming Feb 11 09:04:19 toadpole: how can you cancel a device that wasn't announced? protos are usually dropped :) Feb 11 09:04:20 Not as bad as it could have been. Looks like a "we need a smartphone out there now" move Feb 11 09:04:47 Why didn't they keep full steam with maemo Feb 11 09:05:05 cause maemo is fine but could use some refinements Feb 11 09:05:07 can we resurrect maemo? Feb 11 09:05:15 svn co ... Feb 11 09:05:21 maemo is meego Feb 11 09:05:30 yea but its all reworked Feb 11 09:05:42 slaine say that to elop Feb 11 09:06:13 hey bergie Feb 11 09:06:27 hey Feb 11 09:07:30 \o bergie Feb 11 09:07:48 bergie: hey Feb 11 09:07:50 the Helsinki MeeGo meetup next week is bound to be interesting Feb 11 09:08:06 bergie: MeeGo Anonymous? Feb 11 09:08:07 :P Feb 11 09:08:19 Stskeeps: yes, something of that sort ;-) Feb 11 09:08:26 bergie: so much for our buildservice project, right? :-) Feb 11 09:08:57 karli: depends on what happens to the MeeGo community Feb 11 09:09:35 bergie: true. but it doesn´t look good. at least not the Nokia side Feb 11 09:09:47 Hail our new microsoft overlords! *sob* Feb 11 09:10:13 karli: did you read http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/02/11/letter-to-developers?sf1066337=1 Feb 11 09:11:13 bergie: sure. perhaps I read different thing between the lines than you :-) Feb 11 09:11:37 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-tells-investors-that-2011-and-2012-will-be-transition-yea/ Feb 11 09:12:29 That forum.nokia letter to developers just makes my angry, in a "Why can't you write non-marketingspeak non-bureaucrateese" kind of way :-) Feb 11 09:13:24 * slaine_ goes to install win7 on his lenovo Feb 11 09:13:37 because marketspeaking and bureaucrateese is the way Nokia rolls... Feb 11 09:14:00 I like the please share tweet Feb 11 09:14:04 ... i ll not ... Feb 11 09:14:05 :) Feb 11 09:14:16 * arfoll is thinking HTC will probably take on meego Feb 11 09:14:56 slaine_: win7 on lenovo..... saad Feb 11 09:14:58 sad day Feb 11 09:15:25 Nokia recently told their developers they had to target QT .. people learning it left right and center.. and now they'll be told to target wp.. sigh.. Feb 11 09:15:49 rmt: No, no Feb 11 09:15:56 So by the looks of it, the nokia prototype running meego didn't pass final muster and there was a "strategic" decision to get something out there on a current platform Feb 11 09:15:58 rmt: and they claim : "Supporting our developers" Feb 11 09:16:07 * slaine_ shakes head Feb 11 09:16:13 rmt: The people are bing told to disband, go their own ways, nothing ot see here Feb 11 09:16:21 niala1: I'm kidding about the win7 Feb 11 09:16:39 btw Feb 11 09:16:41 Which is a really cute way to address your development community Feb 11 09:16:43 rmt: I don't think they'll be told to learn wp7. wp7 comes as a complete package with little development required. development will be done at MS, and nokia will just need to do a bit of adaptation. it means most developers won't be needed anymore Feb 11 09:16:44 "Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year" Feb 11 09:16:52 is there any chance I could flash my n900 with Windows Phone7? Feb 11 09:16:54 :) Feb 11 09:17:18 thresh: sure. the result is called a brick, but it will still be better than an official wp7 phone :-) Feb 11 09:17:31 pinchartl, Ovi services will have to be ported, unless they decide that QT on wp7 is the way to go. Feb 11 09:17:31 isn't it possible that meego becomes a software platform for just one high end phone ala n900? Feb 11 09:17:47 <_berto_> http://is.gd/Fx6c3M Feb 11 09:18:31 rmt: why bother with ovi services ? they can just adopt MS service platform Feb 11 09:18:46 I wonder how long it takes to come out with the first marketable wp7 phone.. Feb 11 09:19:05 pinchartl, ms is adopting Ovi Maps, at least. Feb 11 09:19:12 as far as I'm concerned, wp7 isn't marketable, so I would say forever :-) Feb 11 09:19:31 MS will take a few interesting bits of Ovi, I wouldn't be surprised if the rest was dropped Feb 11 09:19:37 but I don't care much to be honest Feb 11 09:19:38 rmt, i think they have some protos. maybe we'll see in 40 minutes Feb 11 09:19:40 well, that's pretty insane step Feb 11 09:19:49 but I see some sense in it Feb 11 09:19:53 pinchartl, So Berlin jobs are mostly safe.. Feb 11 09:19:59 Mece_, presentation still going on? Feb 11 09:20:14 rmt: unless the jobs move to MS Feb 11 09:20:15 Ovi is pretty much condemned Feb 11 09:20:24 rst38h: o/ Feb 11 09:20:28 i'm i afraid i will never want to buy a nokia phone again :( Feb 11 09:20:30 heya wazd Feb 11 09:20:53 RST38h, Could be.. would've been condemned a lot faster had they said "Google" instead of MS. ;-) Feb 11 09:20:57 That letter directly says that Nokia will be using MS services, so Ovi is kaboom, except for Ovi Maps Feb 11 09:21:10 rst38h: what do you think bout these diabolic news? :) Feb 11 09:21:13 rmt: Does not matter who condemns you really Feb 11 09:21:23 wazd: I think Android or webOS Feb 11 09:21:54 RST38h, I'm most concerned with Ovi maps.. ;-) Feb 11 09:21:55 http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/feb/11/nokia-microsoft-sign-strategic-tieup Feb 11 09:22:08 Ovi maps is poor. Feb 11 09:22:15 * lupine_85 uses mappero :) Feb 11 09:22:19 web os is pretty much nonsense :) Feb 11 09:22:31 so, is meego going to have /any/ phones at all? Feb 11 09:22:40 webos is cloud ? Feb 11 09:22:40 RST38h, And for the time being, so long as the backend remains free of windows, I'm happy. ;-) Feb 11 09:22:48 wazd: It is not. It has got native devkit. It is Lunux, with SDL Feb 11 09:23:18 rst38h: oh, they've released ndk? Feb 11 09:23:30 lupine_85, Ovi Maps is improving, but slower than we'd like.. ;-) Feb 11 09:23:35 wazd: For a while, how do all these webos games work, do you think? Feb 11 09:23:37 rst38h: I'm in Prague right now, missing news Feb 11 09:23:52 wazd: come by warsaw for a drink! Feb 11 09:23:53 :P Feb 11 09:23:58 rst38h: good point :) Feb 11 09:24:02 wazd: In short summary, "clusterfuck" Feb 11 09:24:23 rmt, I wouldn't know - I've not used it for a long time now Feb 11 09:24:36 mappero even kept me from getting hopelessly lost in morocco :) Feb 11 09:24:42 ovi had no chance Feb 11 09:24:46 stskeeps: wait a sec, I'll check bus schedule :) Feb 11 09:24:55 * niala1 smoke weed and cry about nokia Feb 11 09:26:23 @nat/nokia/xxxxxxxx bybye have a nice day Feb 11 09:27:43 :( Feb 11 09:28:41 * niala1 need to megaupload a windows Feb 11 09:28:57 and now i become a thief!! Feb 11 09:29:41 http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/04/nokia-employs-as-many-engineers-for-symbian-and-meego-as-apple-does-for-all-its-product-lines/ Feb 11 09:30:10 any new news ? Feb 11 09:31:20 sivaN900: http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/02/11/letter-to-developers?sf1066337=1 Feb 11 09:31:57 * sivaN900 shivers to open Feb 11 09:32:32 Does anyone have a good Project Idead for MeeGo so I can work on for my graduation Project? Feb 11 09:33:17 port wine :p Feb 11 09:33:21 heh Feb 11 09:33:24 tomboy Feb 11 09:33:27 time to order .net coding books :) Feb 11 09:33:40 jonni: :( Feb 11 09:33:57 jonni: the only reason to order .net conding books is to burn them :-) Feb 11 09:34:05 I prefer to be related to ImageProcessing Feb 11 09:34:28 lol Feb 11 09:34:41 develop for WP7 :-S Feb 11 09:34:54 daniel_: implement 3A algorithms (auto-exposure, auto white balance and auto-focus) for the N900 camera on MeeGo Feb 11 09:35:25 Nice Idea, I will take a note about this now Feb 11 09:35:36 daniel_, make xbmc use graphicsmagick instead of cximage Feb 11 09:36:13 stskeeps: I'm affraid 9h bbus trip is too much :) Feb 11 09:36:14 so why is meego not mentioned in the developer letter ??? Feb 11 09:36:18 wazd: fair enough Feb 11 09:36:32 daniel_: it's not an easy project, but it would be very interesting for the embedded Linux community Feb 11 09:36:45 stskeeps: sorry :) Feb 11 09:36:47 sivaN900: read qt ecosystem Feb 11 09:37:37 so, on WP7, I think nokia just needs something to sell before meego arrival Feb 11 09:37:48 what is WP7? Feb 11 09:37:52 i, too, believe it's not all that bad Feb 11 09:37:56 meego is a huge step, enormous step Feb 11 09:38:21 windows phone 7 daniel_ Feb 11 09:38:43 wazd, meego isn't a huge step if you've done maemo Feb 11 09:39:01 Statistics show that WindowsPhone7 isn't doing that well Feb 11 09:39:20 arfoll: maemo is not consumer ready os, let's face it Feb 11 09:39:28 daniel_: you haven't been reading engadget this morning Feb 11 09:39:29 daniel_ of course, the OS isn't complete yet, they just added copy/paste jeez Feb 11 09:39:40 arfoll: it's powerful and really cool Feb 11 09:40:17 pinchart1: Do u know some requirements for the camera calibration? Feb 11 09:40:23 arfoll: but not quite consumer friendly Feb 11 09:40:29 Can I use openCV for that reason? Feb 11 09:40:37 WP7 is a buggy mess. was released way before being stable or feature complete Feb 11 09:41:02 wazd, i don't know - seems about as user friendly as android 1.x Feb 11 09:41:04 nokia just done suicide, there is nothing left what a chinese can't do too. Feb 11 09:41:18 yeah Feb 11 09:41:24 aholler++ Feb 11 09:41:27 Nokia has imagined that the gpl developer would do Meego in 6 months and reap the benefits Feb 11 09:41:30 Meego + Qt was the way the go :( Feb 11 09:42:00 Now where's qgil? Feb 11 09:42:09 I just dont understand why did they make MP7 their primary platform :( Feb 11 09:42:22 could have done an experiment with couple of devices Feb 11 09:42:25 aholler: nokia - best hardware on the market Feb 11 09:42:29 HyperDUDe: nobody here understand Feb 11 09:42:31 +1 Feb 11 09:42:33 aholler, +1 Feb 11 09:42:33 aholler: hands down Feb 11 09:43:01 aholler: neither chinese nor brand can compete with them Feb 11 09:43:12 `me, I just don't understand how Stephen Elop could sell Nokia's future sio easyly Feb 11 09:43:13 wazd: Not any more. Lots of cases when new nokia phones dies on the second or third day Feb 11 09:43:22 HyperDUDe: neither do i i guess there will just be one more meego device ? Feb 11 09:43:25 Qt adoption in WP7 should a been a prerequise !!!! Feb 11 09:43:30 wazd: also breaking connectors, malfunctioning LCDs, broken RF modules Feb 11 09:43:31 yeah Feb 11 09:43:35 a few month ago amd annonce her interrest in meego and now nokia .... incredible Feb 11 09:43:47 This makes me sad: "Though our plans for MeeGo have been adapted in light of our planned partnership with Microsoft, that device will be compatible with applications developed within the Qt framework and so give Qt developers a further device to target. " Feb 11 09:43:54 who says Elop ever left MS, maybe that was part of his coming to Nokia in the first place Feb 11 09:44:04 I dont mean just as a trojan horse Feb 11 09:44:09 ya Feb 11 09:44:15 maybe the board invited him for just this reason Feb 11 09:44:23 from MS point of view it is perfect : they will finally be a big player in smartphone, and they almost killed the most open platform and they slow down linux progress through Qt Feb 11 09:44:34 think of it he was an unknown from some business unit in MS Feb 11 09:44:46 it's a win-win situation for MS :@ Feb 11 09:45:00 lol HylerDuDe Feb 11 09:45:11 is there any chance to port Qt to WP7 as a community project like for Android or iPhone ? Feb 11 09:45:12 and next year elop announce his departure .... Feb 11 09:45:18 otherwise who would use threir shitty os :S Feb 11 09:45:27 no chance fr Qt on WP7 Feb 11 09:45:36 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-notifies-developers-that-qt-is-out-for-windows-phone-devel/ Feb 11 09:45:54 no give him 2 years to anounce the sale of the smartphone business to MS Feb 11 09:46:18 when you hire a microsoft executive, that's what you get Feb 11 09:46:21 now that Nokia is broken in to, the stuff ms wants Feb 11 09:46:23 and the rest Feb 11 09:46:33 *two Feb 11 09:46:50 now nokia depends of other Feb 11 09:47:59 erm... Feb 11 09:48:11 so nokia decided to get windows and not android, eh? Feb 11 09:48:34 poor qt Feb 11 09:48:41 nokia was not the only dev of symbian for like 10 years btw Feb 11 09:49:08 and done pretty well Feb 11 09:49:25 korgoth: yes the worth his appened Feb 11 09:50:01 partnership with MS is much better than android Feb 11 09:50:11 wazd: Not really Feb 11 09:50:17 1) win7phone 2) symbian and far far away meego Feb 11 09:50:22 wazd: Android phones sell, WP7 phones do not Feb 11 09:50:31 android with might have been something Feb 11 09:50:41 with qt Feb 11 09:50:50 Brilliant deal between Microsoft and Nokia. Microsoft gets worldwide platforms for its new OS. Nokia gets a strong partner in the U.S. market, where it lacks presence. Feb 11 09:51:05 yeah Feb 11 09:51:09 o.O Feb 11 09:51:11 and the only ones that are fucked up are we - the nokia fans Feb 11 09:51:12 ;D Feb 11 09:51:19 yeah Feb 11 09:51:19 this sucks Feb 11 09:51:21 rst38h: well, first android phones were pos Feb 11 09:51:42 rst38h: and didn't sell at all Feb 11 09:51:45 google is not a strong partner? Feb 11 09:51:56 ah, friday trolls. I was waiting for them :-) Feb 11 09:52:04 korgoth++++ Feb 11 09:52:36 i know this is harsh but it feels like a slam in the face Feb 11 09:52:53 BBC business analysis : http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2011/02/is_the_nokiamicrosoft_horse_a.html Feb 11 09:52:59 lets be serious, company needs something to sell Feb 11 09:53:11 and we need something to use Feb 11 09:53:14 meego obviously is not ready yet Feb 11 09:53:18 So which horse do you bet on. Apple? Google's Android on Chinese hardware? Or Microsoft's OS on Nokia hardware? Feb 11 09:53:19 i dont want to move to HTC now that ive been using nokia for 15 years Feb 11 09:53:25 "I am trying to remember a successful precedent of collaboration on this scale - involving businesses from different continents and with pretty different products and services - that worked" Feb 11 09:53:26 symbian is good, but not for us market Feb 11 09:53:42 wazd: is wp7 ready ? has windiws ever been ready ? Feb 11 09:53:48 symbian is way behind already wazd Feb 11 09:53:48 This looks like a bit of a step back to symbian actually :P Feb 11 09:53:49 :-/ Feb 11 09:54:00 of course i havnt used the ^3 but still i think its behind android Feb 11 09:54:11 ya Feb 11 09:54:15 korgoth: anyway Feb 11 09:54:32 Apple's strength is good design and engineering. Google's strength is openness. Microsoft's strength is its Windows/Office cash flow. Feb 11 09:54:33 wazd: i still maintain he should have jumped into the waters and choose Mer ;p Feb 11 09:54:37 I remember having an argument with some nokia person 5 years ago, wondering why I'd have to pay $2000 to make a tiny little app for symbian.. the guy said it doesn't matter since only big companies makes apps and $2K is trivially small for them.. Guess why there were no apps :P Feb 11 09:54:44 sivaN900: at least you can buy wp7 phone Feb 11 09:54:53 whats says nasdaq about nokia now? Feb 11 09:54:58 symbian is way better then WP7, it had a pathetic sdk (carbide++) but with Qt it was going in the right direction, only thing it needed was a great UI which nokia failed to deliver Feb 11 09:55:16 wazd: compare to wp7 apps, if any Feb 11 09:55:23 stskeeps: yeah, I'm still shocked he didn't make it Feb 11 09:55:25 wazd: i can buy android as well Feb 11 09:55:25 wazd: then rethink :) Feb 11 09:55:39 haha Stskeeps good one :_D i still have mer 'running' on myu n810 :D Feb 11 09:56:11 well good thing it might be that nokia was not realy driving meego Feb 11 09:56:26 sivaN900: android is google's ad platform Feb 11 09:56:26 so there is still intel doing great work Feb 11 09:56:54 jbos: yeah but who cares if it doesnt run on nokia hardware :) Feb 11 09:57:01 jbos: what work is that? Feb 11 09:57:08 sivan900: and zillions of manufacturers who are crafting android hardware Feb 11 09:57:18 http://kuvaton.com/browse/17005/bye_nokia.jpg Feb 11 09:57:28 rst38h: compare what? Feb 11 09:57:40 wazd: Android and WP7 apps Feb 11 09:58:03 wazd: but isnt wp7 a windows ? Feb 11 09:58:07 rst38h: there will be more Feb 11 09:58:09 who say its not running on nokia hardware.... well but true. At least there will be a MeeGo Device from nokia this year Feb 11 09:58:16 sivan900: so? Feb 11 09:58:25 jbos: not confirmed Feb 11 09:58:33 as far as i understand Feb 11 09:58:34 it was supposed to be out last year Feb 11 09:58:37 sivan900: you mean windows = bad? Feb 11 09:58:48 :) korgoth thats true again :D Feb 11 09:58:57 i'm still to optimitic Feb 11 09:59:04 wazd: i mean instabiliy voodo trpubleshooting etc Feb 11 09:59:18 wazd: win 7 is not bad Feb 11 09:59:35 sivan900: try use something beyond win98 :P Feb 11 09:59:43 lol wazd :D:D:D Feb 11 09:59:44 wazd: i do Feb 11 09:59:48 and don't forget the `windows' key. Feb 11 10:00:19 wazd: win7 and still some archiver download site made me reinstall Feb 11 10:00:32 wazd: bitzipper or something alike Feb 11 10:00:35 yea windows key for nokia hardware keyboard Feb 11 10:00:36 Very much like `in your face' type of attitude compared to Apple's iphone logo which is placed on the backside of the device and does not actually function as a button Feb 11 10:01:13 sivan900: I've crashed X in Suse on my HP laptop in like 40 seconds Feb 11 10:01:19 are you getting sound from the live feed? Feb 11 10:01:26 sivan900: completely Feb 11 10:01:38 wazd: use ubuntu ?-) or debian Feb 11 10:01:42 sivan900: is linux unstable? :) Feb 11 10:02:04 anybody has the link to the live stream? Feb 11 10:02:12 <_berto_> the webcast should be starting now, nokia.com/press Feb 11 10:02:27 arch linux ftw! :P Feb 11 10:02:28 it is.but I don't hear any sound... Feb 11 10:02:31 I just want to wait for hardware announcements Feb 11 10:02:39 live stream? Feb 11 10:02:39 <_berto_> I don't hear any sound either Feb 11 10:02:40 and see what they can get Feb 11 10:02:49 link plz Feb 11 10:02:59 no sound here Feb 11 10:03:03 <_berto_> HyperDUDe: nokia.com/press Feb 11 10:03:30 Download the slides ;) Feb 11 10:04:03 no audio here Feb 11 10:04:23 <_berto_> no, there's no audio Feb 11 10:04:27 looks good they arent streaming on silverlight Feb 11 10:04:28 * lbt waits for someone who types fast to transcribe Feb 11 10:04:34 <_berto_> audio not implemented yet in WP7 Feb 11 10:04:42 haha Feb 11 10:04:50 :) Feb 11 10:04:56 my brother pulling his hair woorking on win server through citrix from home to uni Feb 11 10:05:31 the clieht is like a trojan horse on the win7 Feb 11 10:05:50 <_berto_> there's audio now Feb 11 10:05:51 audio now... Feb 11 10:05:51 oh dear music started Feb 11 10:05:51 oh he had to reboot :-) Feb 11 10:06:08 kinda wish it hadn't Feb 11 10:06:12 ok I have sound now Feb 11 10:06:21 cheesy Feb 11 10:06:28 http://www-waa-akam.thomson-webcast.net/uk/dispatching/?event_id=2dd7139793f7dc9f43109186244f14dc&portal_id=369401748e8249f142a700d8098a3473&sf1066342=1 Feb 11 10:06:33 lbt, transcribe the keynote? Feb 11 10:06:39 a video of the announcement ? Feb 11 10:06:47 is judas going to be speaking? Feb 11 10:06:50 * arfoll just pasted in the wrong window Feb 11 10:06:59 sivaN900, video has started. nobody talking yet Feb 11 10:07:06 I wonder if anyone has rotten fruit Feb 11 10:07:31 yep, here he is Feb 11 10:07:37 now' Feb 11 10:07:45 now would be the time to throw fruit Feb 11 10:07:46 damn Feb 11 10:07:47 lag Feb 11 10:07:56 mece: the developer letter says meego died long live symbian and wp7 Feb 11 10:08:06 ack. I woke up at 2am and the webcast is getting hammered and I can't get in :( Feb 11 10:08:29 my meego is too nice to pollute with this conference Feb 11 10:08:43 DawnFoster: I guess a lot of people want to see it :) Feb 11 10:08:50 wait, churchill didn't say "we give up and commit suicide" Feb 11 10:09:00 I would've chosen a different Churchill quote Feb 11 10:09:06 DawnFoster: things aren't good, i'd say, so we're in for turbulent times.. Feb 11 10:09:11 eco-systems.... wtf eco-systems does wp7 have??? this is bs Feb 11 10:09:29 Stskeeps, where's dawn? Feb 11 10:09:38 X-Fade: DawnFoster: I guess a lot of people want to see it <---- like vultures Feb 11 10:09:39 just spoke? Feb 11 10:09:39 :P Feb 11 10:09:46 I"m here Feb 11 10:10:00 niala1: No, a path has been set for them. Nothing they can do about it. Feb 11 10:10:01 microsoft plants the seeds, nokia craps on them, and then they grow into lush crops, sounds like a great eco system Feb 11 10:10:11 nokia just an odm now Feb 11 10:10:14 except for the whole eating crap thing Feb 11 10:10:20 consumers want bing ????????? Feb 11 10:10:22 "bing" Feb 11 10:10:27 yay office ! Feb 11 10:10:27 WTF???? Feb 11 10:10:29 microsoft wins big here, nokia ... not so much, big loss. Feb 11 10:10:30 idiots Feb 11 10:10:36 so we now have the odd situation where Intel is in charge of an ARM port of a Linux operating system Feb 11 10:10:38 bergie:I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat. Feb 11 10:10:39 Milhouse, yep. elop trojan Feb 11 10:10:43 what could possibly go wrong? Feb 11 10:10:58 is Elop aa Microsoft Trojan horse? Feb 11 10:11:05 so it seems Feb 11 10:11:14 is this a Nokia statement? Or an MS statement? Feb 11 10:11:19 * niala1 search the hearse Feb 11 10:11:25 ah, finally got into the webcast Feb 11 10:11:33 developer developer developer ! Feb 11 10:11:46 DawnFoster \o Feb 11 10:11:54 I mean \o/ Feb 11 10:12:09 oohhh yes it is good for ms Feb 11 10:12:11 <_berto_> BINGO !!! Feb 11 10:12:14 "We also think this is good for microsoft" LOOOL Feb 11 10:12:15 lupine_85: so we now have the odd situation ..... <----- +1 Feb 11 10:12:28 and by the way, it's good for Microsoft Feb 11 10:12:44 Elop is now bashing QT Feb 11 10:12:50 do we still have meego conf ? Feb 11 10:12:57 it's good for devs excepts those who invest in qt.... Feb 11 10:12:59 lol Feb 11 10:13:02 mece: hahahah Feb 11 10:13:13 sivaN900: yes, and there will be free WP7 phones Feb 11 10:13:18 I'm getting furious here. Feb 11 10:13:32 ooh. Feb 11 10:13:34 hell, I almost considered applying for a job in Nokia's linuxy bits Feb 11 10:13:34 trojan man Feb 11 10:13:36 broader strategy Feb 11 10:13:40 good job I didn't, really Feb 11 10:13:41 FUUUUCK Feb 11 10:13:43 sorry Feb 11 10:13:45 What happens to MeeGo? It looks like its on the back burner now, barely hanging in there. ‘MeeGo will place increased emphasis on longer-term market exploration of next-generation devices, platforms and user experiences. Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year‘. Feb 11 10:13:47 meant to tweet that Feb 11 10:13:48 OMG Feb 11 10:14:01 fracking balmer Feb 11 10:14:05 There he is.. Feb 11 10:14:11 yes thanks steven Feb 11 10:14:13 look no chairs on the stage! Feb 11 10:14:15 .. "and it failed miserably" Feb 11 10:14:22 when he start to jump around? Feb 11 10:14:26 Probably WP7 is step 8 out of 12 Feb 11 10:14:29 hotmail! Feb 11 10:14:30 :D Feb 11 10:14:37 range, lol Feb 11 10:14:46 Balmer on now, LOL Feb 11 10:14:50 i am going to vomit Feb 11 10:14:55 lol Feb 11 10:15:00 hotmail :S Feb 11 10:15:03 omg I feel sick Feb 11 10:15:09 balmer under nokia logo! Feb 11 10:15:19 magically! Feb 11 10:15:21 mece: same here :( Feb 11 10:15:25 developer! developer! developer! developer! developer! Feb 11 10:15:27 hotmail ! Feb 11 10:15:28 is ballmer dancing around stage yet? Feb 11 10:15:29 * psycho_oreos rolls eyes Feb 11 10:15:35 the (few) people who have used WP have been delighted Feb 11 10:15:36 <_berto_> sivaN900: http://oi55.tinypic.com/2u4ixrs.jpg Feb 11 10:15:41 idiot idiot idiot Feb 11 10:16:08 DawnFoster: how r u given this black day for open source ? Feb 11 10:16:12 Balmer: "you did well son, go fetch me another company!" Feb 11 10:16:13 <_berto_> http://www.bullshitbingo.net/cards/bullshit/ Feb 11 10:16:13 Nokia has a primary focus on WP hardware Feb 11 10:16:23 putain de bordel de merde Feb 11 10:16:40 sivaN900: I've had better days and mine just started (here at 2am) Feb 11 10:16:47 people who don't like profanities should stay away from my twitter feed today. (Then again why would you be there in the first place if that was the case) Feb 11 10:16:52 * pinchartl should have slept late Feb 11 10:17:07 I can say that Intel isn't slowing down on MeeGo. Feb 11 10:17:20 intel don't make mobiles ;) Feb 11 10:17:28 lbt: it is all over :-/ Feb 11 10:17:28 DawnFoster: same here maybe intel can save the day ? Feb 11 10:17:28 DawnFoster: yay Feb 11 10:17:29 he said "engineers" like it had quotation marks around it. Feb 11 10:17:31 image technologies? Feb 11 10:17:37 which is the interesting form factor Feb 11 10:17:39 DawnFoster, yay Intel! Feb 11 10:18:03 he meant engineering-associated drones Feb 11 10:18:06 DawnFoster: i'll head to the career site asap Feb 11 10:18:18 DawnFoster: my worry is how Qt fits in to all this, as that can tip things extremely :/ Feb 11 10:18:25 step 6 of 14 Feb 11 10:18:44 DawnFoster :) Feb 11 10:18:49 ok meego is an os, but Qt is much bigger... Feb 11 10:19:15 So Alberto Torres, Nokia head of MeeGo, is resigning? Feb 11 10:19:18 Stskeeps: it seems it does not :-/ Feb 11 10:19:19 http://imgur.com/VmlXk Feb 11 10:19:19 Milhouse: resigned Feb 11 10:19:23 wow, the stock is taking a beating Feb 11 10:19:26 Man, Ballmer is shouting Feb 11 10:19:36 Stskeeps: thanks for the correction. :( Feb 11 10:19:47 live coverage from Elops/Nokia investors presentation : http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/live-from-nokias-capital-markets-day/ Feb 11 10:19:54 Stskeeps, not microsofts I bet. Feb 11 10:19:55 Stskeeps: maybe the stock will fall so hard elop will be fired Feb 11 10:20:11 Stskeeps: When it gets low enough, maybe MS can launch a takeover (I mean buy the company, officially). Feb 11 10:20:17 IE9 innovation? :-s Feb 11 10:20:27 darthvader and his son Feb 11 10:20:37 questions. BURN THEM!!! Feb 11 10:20:37 And I used to like Canadians... :) Feb 11 10:20:42 (metaphorically) Feb 11 10:20:52 Milhouse, like celine dion! Feb 11 10:21:08 mece: ah, maybe not all Canadians :) Feb 11 10:21:14 hehehe Feb 11 10:21:21 i am switching between the webcast and irc on my amazing N900 Feb 11 10:21:33 s40 is still there.. Feb 11 10:21:43 Nokia must have one of the most fcked up strategies going... Feb 11 10:21:46 sivaN900: epic Feb 11 10:22:07 Symbian/MeeGo with Qt... easy. Now it's just a joke. Feb 11 10:22:34 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/02/nokia-cmd0053.jpg Feb 11 10:22:40 mece: blackest day for open source ever Feb 11 10:22:51 sivaN900, may I qote you on that? Feb 11 10:22:53 how? Feb 11 10:22:56 sivaN900, and yes. Feb 11 10:23:02 mece: for the country thet invented linux Feb 11 10:23:04 meego is still going to bmw and others? Feb 11 10:23:11 mece: yes Feb 11 10:23:20 until they take QNX Feb 11 10:23:29 intel can't make phone? Feb 11 10:23:47 MeeGo just had a leg chopped off... but will no doubt soldier on. Feb 11 10:23:50 notic the miss fit to eu questions and uk Feb 11 10:23:52 car industry is still slow enough for meego :) Feb 11 10:24:05 pexi: I doubt that will save meego Feb 11 10:24:06 ask about MEEGO dammit! Feb 11 10:24:26 pexi: with nobody "driving" meego actively Feb 11 10:24:30 why? who cares? Feb 11 10:24:48 just abandonded internal research/strategy Feb 11 10:24:53 Kypeli on twitter: This sounds exactly what Nokia said last year with Intel. Feb 11 10:25:19 so the intel nokia partnership ends ? Feb 11 10:25:32 What's it delivered sivaN900? Feb 11 10:25:32 i have no idea.. Feb 11 10:25:58 * Jaffa wonders about TSG membership... Feb 11 10:26:06 When's the next TSG meeting? Feb 11 10:26:11 what's tsg? Feb 11 10:26:14 Jaffa: going to run? Feb 11 10:26:14 :P Feb 11 10:26:18 wasn't 2 days ago Jaffa Feb 11 10:26:26 "nothing to discuss" Feb 11 10:26:30 Here we go... Feb 11 10:26:32 Meego mentioned! Feb 11 10:26:39 yess good question Feb 11 10:26:41 Frye: how? Feb 11 10:26:42 finally someone asks about meego Feb 11 10:26:43 lbt: probably not true anymore Feb 11 10:26:53 more like FINALLY Feb 11 10:26:57 Stskeeps: =-) Feb 11 10:27:11 stfu about symbian! Feb 11 10:27:14 ok ok symbian who cares Feb 11 10:27:15 "Transition to Windows Phone"... sobs... Feb 11 10:27:29 ok... Feb 11 10:27:31 meego.. Feb 11 10:27:32 Transition from Symbian to Windows Phone Feb 11 10:27:33 "lol meego you still care about that?" Feb 11 10:27:48 "Why lead, when we can be lead?" :-/ Feb 11 10:27:49 "MeeGo is an opportunity to learn" Feb 11 10:27:53 so meego is dead this is it Feb 11 10:27:58 so only one meego device. Feb 11 10:28:01 yep Feb 11 10:28:04 meego will be another skunkworks project Feb 11 10:28:04 meego is dead. Feb 11 10:28:05 R&D project. Feb 11 10:28:07 so more "learning" with MeeGo... same with Maemo... then switch to "future platforms". MeeGo on Nokia is dead Feb 11 10:28:07 like the 770 Feb 11 10:28:15 "meego was an opportunity to learn that we suck at software, so we're going to some other company that sucks at software" Feb 11 10:28:17 preety much Feb 11 10:28:25 Maemo... what a waste of 5.5 years Feb 11 10:28:40 I cannot believe Elop killed nokia... Feb 11 10:28:49 Elop didn't kill Nokia, Elop saved Nokia Feb 11 10:28:59 lol Feb 11 10:29:00 * Jaffa wonders if the Nokia board had this in mind when choosing Elop and/or it was part of his pitch for the jon. Feb 11 10:29:01 lol Feb 11 10:29:05 No, I'm serious Feb 11 10:29:08 LOL Feb 11 10:29:10 nope Feb 11 10:29:11 so am I Feb 11 10:29:18 jnwi, how? Feb 11 10:29:18 Elop saved nokia by killing it and reviving the corpse Feb 11 10:29:21 Jaffa: it has to have been there Feb 11 10:29:24 don't care about nokia a want a open phone!!!!!! Feb 11 10:29:29 it's fine so long as you don't want phones with Charisma scores Feb 11 10:29:32 constitution scores Feb 11 10:29:34 What was the previous management thinking staying on a path that would ship one MeeGo phone in 2011 Feb 11 10:29:35 niala1, yes! THIS! Feb 11 10:29:37 ? Feb 11 10:29:43 (screwed that d&d reference up sorry) Feb 11 10:29:49 mece: thanks Feb 11 10:29:51 jnwi: better than none ... Feb 11 10:29:51 They're the ones who killed Nokia Feb 11 10:30:07 jnwi: apple make profit with only one phone Feb 11 10:30:09 lbt: Sucks to be a Nokian today, I suspect :-( Feb 11 10:30:14 Khertan: Nokia won't Feb 11 10:30:14 :) Feb 11 10:30:16 iltalehti lol Feb 11 10:30:26 pretty good english for a finn Feb 11 10:30:30 what happens to finland? heh Feb 11 10:30:38 what happens to Finland Feb 11 10:30:40 jnwi: they will waste MONTHS in transition to WP7. That time could be used to push Qt and Meego development and really change the market. Right now they signed death warrant Feb 11 10:30:43 heh Feb 11 10:30:44 Jaffa: at least it sucks to be a nokia subcontractor Feb 11 10:30:48 maybe he is thinking it as business.. if it won't make it in five years, it won't make it ever :) Feb 11 10:30:49 fucking store all kind of store... ovi, iphone samsung or anything .... regressive world Feb 11 10:30:54 well that's nice to hear from my point of view Feb 11 10:30:58 about finland Feb 11 10:31:13 I mean our whole economy is based on nokia Feb 11 10:31:13 language please Feb 11 10:31:16 sadly it's a "follow the leader" strategy - not a leapfrog Feb 11 10:31:24 dagger: that may end up being the case, but they wouldn't have been in this situation if Nokia could have delivered in 2010 Feb 11 10:31:38 "Nokia is a finnish company" or "Nokia is a finished company" ? Feb 11 10:31:44 latter... :) Feb 11 10:31:54 excessive outsourcing... nice Feb 11 10:31:55 jnwi: of course. Nokia made many bad decisions. But this one was the worst one so far Feb 11 10:32:02 bzhb: :P Feb 11 10:32:33 bzhb: hehee Feb 11 10:32:55 dagger, why so? Feb 11 10:32:57 what a nightmare Feb 11 10:33:07 customers fault to, they buy iphone, now the result, compagny adapt to the market Feb 11 10:33:15 jnwi: it sounds to me like it will be hard for Nokia to have proper margins being just a "yet another Windows phone manufacturer" Feb 11 10:33:16 dagger: So maybe I was exaggerating when I turned killed into saved, but you just can't blame Elop for this Feb 11 10:33:27 Interesting how much Nokia has been recruiting MeeGo people just recent days. I guess that will change Feb 11 10:33:27 bergie: I agree Feb 11 10:33:29 he just said subcontracting is finished Feb 11 10:33:29 pexi: their decision will boost M$ only. It was the worst possible solution for Nokia. Even going with google was better option Feb 11 10:33:34 the early user community. LOL all 4 of them Feb 11 10:33:35 And I will not get those headhunter calls anymore :) Feb 11 10:33:42 Kypeli \o Feb 11 10:33:47 o/ Feb 11 10:33:49 Kypeli, depressing Feb 11 10:33:53 Kypeli: yes tyey have been recruiting like hell Feb 11 10:34:09 dagger: with Android they could've at least kept Ovi and Qt, and a transition path to MeeGo Feb 11 10:34:14 You can't argue that the burning platform story has been cute, in a US Christian sense Feb 11 10:34:14 Kypeli: same here :-/ Feb 11 10:34:17 jnwi: I can only blame Elop for killing blow. Nokia was bleeding for long time Feb 11 10:34:24 ms is strong in live and trying to integrate the experience for phones, maybe they'll succeed.. like ngage did Feb 11 10:34:27 The guy put his trust into God and the God saved him Feb 11 10:34:27 RST38h: LOL Feb 11 10:34:32 bergie: +1 Feb 11 10:34:47 The problem, of course, who you consider to be your God Feb 11 10:35:04 Interesting .... operators want MeeGo... Feb 11 10:35:11 And with Cthulhu seemingly ruling the world nowadays, you know what happens with the jumping guy... Feb 11 10:35:18 lbt: ? Feb 11 10:35:23 this all about reducing r&d expense... Feb 11 10:35:38 giving nokia r&d costs and returns, can't really blame him for that. Feb 11 10:35:42 can winphobe do irc and 3 web browser windows including streaming media on omap3 ? :-) Feb 11 10:35:47 niala1: question from financial times guy Feb 11 10:36:16 sivaN900, who cares if you can play live arcade games with your friends easily :) Feb 11 10:36:55 no company has made a browser like microb Feb 11 10:36:58 nokia EA sports edition Feb 11 10:37:09 i can see it Feb 11 10:37:13 Halokia Feb 11 10:37:37 "He's from all about symbian" <--- Ballmer to Elop... oh dear. Feb 11 10:37:53 hehe "I'm from All About Symbian" Elop: "Sorry, I can't see where you are" Feb 11 10:38:01 poor rafe Feb 11 10:38:04 pexi: openess operating system that's important - for me, not stupid little game whos exist since last century Feb 11 10:38:07 lol Feb 11 10:38:08 LOL It's that reviewer. rafe Feb 11 10:38:11 poor rafe indeed Feb 11 10:38:47 lbt: he did know where finland is as well Feb 11 10:38:54 did not Feb 11 10:39:01 someone should make a burn question. like "As we can tell by the stock reaction this is obviously a terrible descision for nokia. Why go this way?" Feb 11 10:39:22 "Nokia engineers" really important to Ballmer... yeah right. surpless to requirements now. Feb 11 10:39:32 i would buy it Feb 11 10:39:38 Good question... MeeGo burning money. Feb 11 10:39:47 "meego tablet or whatever" Feb 11 10:39:51 hahaha Feb 11 10:40:01 he really doesn't care the least huh lol Feb 11 10:40:08 so terrible Feb 11 10:40:09 i suggest balmer fund psychological help for meego and nokia developers and fans Feb 11 10:40:22 next week i get my new phone, and now what must i choose.. Feb 11 10:40:23 So MeeGo is just a hedge for Nokia. Feb 11 10:40:30 now all my iphone and android counterprts will laugh at my face Feb 11 10:40:32 Milhouse: yeah Feb 11 10:40:32 microsoft to fund euthanasia program for meego developers Feb 11 10:40:35 niala1: HP Feb 11 10:40:45 dead Feb 11 10:40:47 moofree: ? Feb 11 10:40:52 niala1: WebOS is looking interesting, might have to be my next phone now. Feb 11 10:40:58 cheaper than counseling :P Feb 11 10:41:01 Milhouse: snap Feb 11 10:41:04 haha burn!!!! Feb 11 10:41:08 great great question Feb 11 10:41:13 haha Feb 11 10:41:21 he's not denying Feb 11 10:41:23 fuck Feb 11 10:41:34 Stephen confirmed MeeGo is dead. Feb 11 10:41:34 This strategy is a mess... someone in the audience just nailed it. Feb 11 10:41:36 Hmph Feb 11 10:41:37 And the maemo boss went to WebOS so maybe they're cooking up something nice Feb 11 10:41:53 is there a public live stream? Feb 11 10:41:59 ShadowJK: he did ? r they hiring ? :-) Feb 11 10:42:02 No. Pretty clear. "We're using MS tech" Feb 11 10:42:05 dunno Feb 11 10:42:06 Just enter any old rubbish in the name/email fields Feb 11 10:42:14 at nokia.com/press Feb 11 10:42:19 meego is dead Feb 11 10:42:31 dead as can be here he just said it Feb 11 10:42:37 wtf have I walked ito Feb 11 10:42:38 sivaN900, jaaksi left when meego was announced Feb 11 10:42:41 Wonder what Intel is thinking. Feb 11 10:42:45 s/ito/into/ Feb 11 10:42:45 CosmoHill meant: wtf have I walked into Feb 11 10:42:48 kypeli, yeah, indeed. Feb 11 10:42:52 mece: i guess he saw the future Feb 11 10:43:01 sivaN900, perhaps Feb 11 10:43:02 We're (Intel) still going full steam ahead on MeeGo Feb 11 10:43:04 CosmoHill: hell Feb 11 10:43:08 Probaly Intel feels a bit but raped. Feb 11 10:43:13 +t Feb 11 10:43:17 Dawn: Including Handset Edition? Feb 11 10:43:18 meego is not dead, he become a true slow project linux fundation Feb 11 10:43:23 DawnFoster, I showed my mum the MeeGo ideapad the other night :) Feb 11 10:43:24 DawnFoster: at least intel remains sane Feb 11 10:43:31 DawnFoster: Anyone likely to produce a MeeGo phone, other than Nokia? Feb 11 10:43:43 DawnFoster, are you (intel) making a phone with a keyboard? Feb 11 10:43:50 Milhouse: Aava for developpers Feb 11 10:44:06 chouchoune: I mean for retail customers Feb 11 10:44:13 I was away from Internet for a couple of days, what happened? Did Nokia drop MeeGo support or not? Feb 11 10:44:16 at least I guess you can also call with their phones ;) Feb 11 10:44:18 DawnFoster: please tell folks there we need a meego phone on intel hardware Feb 11 10:44:19 Someone should ask Ballmer "Considering Nokia's adhd-type attention span, aren't you afraid nokia will throw all the wp7 phones in a trashcan a year from now?" Feb 11 10:44:21 DawnFoster, you can now get rid of Qt ;-) Feb 11 10:44:22 :P Feb 11 10:44:23 Intel phones? Feb 11 10:44:32 Aranel: mostly yes Feb 11 10:44:33 hey CosmoHill nice to meet you on #meego :~ Feb 11 10:44:37 We still need time to digest the news and figure out the details. Feb 11 10:44:40 Aranel, pretty much. They said they will release a meego device for teh lulz Feb 11 10:44:48 but Intel is certainly making chips for phones and are talking to other manufacturers Feb 11 10:44:49 niala1: where else would I meet you? Feb 11 10:44:55 well, someone betrayed you, that's the news Feb 11 10:44:55 Aranel: pretty much Feb 11 10:44:57 Aranel: it is a microsoft company as fas as i deduce from the webcast Feb 11 10:45:04 haha positive effect Feb 11 10:45:12 stfu ballmer Feb 11 10:45:14 canada welcome ! Feb 11 10:45:29 mece: sivaN900: foolano :| does any other known company wants to takeover? Feb 11 10:45:47 today is a sad day :( Feb 11 10:46:00 The only winner here is Microsoft... presumably all other hardware manufacturers will continue to support WP7, and benefit from the same gains that Nokia believes it will get Feb 11 10:46:11 btw when this thing happen? Feb 11 10:46:13 CosmoHill: maybe meego is not dead, maybe he become a simple another distro, or another compagnie sell phone Feb 11 10:46:21 *thinks that I'm going to need a lot of tea today* Feb 11 10:46:32 DawnFoster: i think beer is the poison of choice for many Feb 11 10:46:39 Most analysis shows that the real money to be made from mobile hardware is with proprietary operating systems (ie. iOS, RIM, Symbian) Feb 11 10:46:42 Stskeeps, or vodka.. Feb 11 10:47:03 dammit. twitter api overloaded hehe Feb 11 10:47:04 DawnFoster: isn't it 3am for you? Feb 11 10:47:12 well, I just woke - seems a little early for alcohol, although that sounds way better than tea, probably won't help keep me awake :) Feb 11 10:47:19 DawnFoster: anti panic pills more like it Feb 11 10:47:19 Aranel: Not yet, it's not a done deal - maybe still hope the Nokia board will come to their senses but I doubt it.... needs a coup... a pusch Feb 11 10:47:21 Stskeeps: maybe elop think about meego to much beer and no work ;) Feb 11 10:47:43 CosmoHill: Yep - I woke up at 2am to watch the webcast *dedication* Feb 11 10:48:14 DawnFoster: is not a nightmare it's true!!! Feb 11 10:48:23 niala1: ha! Feb 11 10:48:29 you might wanna write a note saying "it really happened, it wasn't a dream. sorry" for when you wake up Feb 11 10:48:32 is the cast still going ? Feb 11 10:48:40 damn, niala1 beat me to that joke Feb 11 10:48:40 no Feb 11 10:48:48 break until noon gmt Feb 11 10:48:49 CosmoHill: :) Feb 11 10:48:58 i still dont get it. I mean Elop said that they didnt pick android because they wouldn't be able to differentiate and that in the long term google would be the main winner. My question is, if this partnership is not exclusive what does it make different? i mean how is not microsft the one that will win in the long term? Feb 11 10:49:05 thinking that today will be a busy one for this community manager Feb 11 10:49:11 Nokia's shares down -9.929% since the announcement :) It has begun Feb 11 10:49:23 oh.,.. Feb 11 10:49:24 any day that *starts* at 2am isn't off to a great start Feb 11 10:49:27 I still think Nokia could do BIG things with Android if they wanted to Feb 11 10:49:28 dagger, hmm. that's actually up Feb 11 10:49:30 niala1, yes, to you, but thats not good business :) Feb 11 10:49:32 was down to -11 Feb 11 10:49:35 foolano: to be android you need to sign contracts with google Feb 11 10:49:44 they didn't choose android cause they wanted to be different? obviously they should have gone with Apple then. Feb 11 10:49:48 ms needs maps and has money android had nothing to offer Feb 11 10:49:51 and these might limit the extent of what you can do Feb 11 10:49:55 Nokia iPhone Feb 11 10:50:02 that'd still be better than windows phone Feb 11 10:50:05 you dont need to sign contracts to get Android Feb 11 10:50:05 meego was on its way just more polish and feature reduction and we would win Feb 11 10:50:08 too bad Feb 11 10:50:18 you only need it if you want google binaries like Marketplace Feb 11 10:50:20 or Gmail Feb 11 10:50:22 or Google Maps Feb 11 10:50:24 or whatever Feb 11 10:50:26 jonwil: true Feb 11 10:50:27 jonwil: he said why : they won't be able to distinguished themselves from other android offering so they went with the plateform that nobody wanted at least they will be the only one using it Feb 11 10:50:32 but that is what customer want Feb 11 10:50:49 jonwil: and google has the trademark on "android" too Feb 11 10:51:07 jonwil: you can choose 1) google life or 2) windows life !!! Feb 11 10:51:13 as i see, this microsoft partnetship would make sense for the short term, but for the long term if they want to a have a chance they would need to create their own ecosystem and be "google" or "microsoft" Feb 11 10:51:15 so, nokia cannot make non sanctioned android phones Feb 11 10:51:17 "maybe it's popular for a reason?" "Nah people just like the little robot character" Feb 11 10:51:23 this seems like such a cop-out Feb 11 10:51:27 woo someone brought an almost unused N900 to my work desk! Feb 11 10:51:28 :D Feb 11 10:51:52 are they giving it to you now that it's useless? Feb 11 10:51:54 we invested so much effort Feb 11 10:52:25 I'm gonna go talk to the embedded systems guys, and play with their wetab :) Feb 11 10:52:30 I'll get my old amiga !!! Feb 11 10:52:31 av500: you also need to sign a partnership contract with microsoft... Feb 11 10:52:42 i imagine t.m.o and what is left of the "maemo community" will rapidly fall apart, mostly in disgust. Feb 11 10:52:42 http://os4depot.net/?function=showfile&file=development/cross/qt-user.tar.gz ;) Feb 11 10:53:23 alright, is this when i point out that Nokia and MeeGo aren't the same thing, and that Nokia couldn't kill MeeGo if they wanted to? ;) Feb 11 10:53:27 intel swap to open os, nokia sawp to closed os. question: who will live ? Feb 11 10:53:46 not same works i know Feb 11 10:53:55 leinir: well on the handsets they could ? Feb 11 10:54:09 Milhouse: there is gta04.org project to port meego there, but they are struggling to get money to produce the phone in series Feb 11 10:54:17 unless intel does a phone with meego Feb 11 10:54:22 leinir: but it's extremely dissapointing Feb 11 10:54:35 i hope a chinese compagny save meego handphone............ Feb 11 10:54:44 incredible! Feb 11 10:54:57 zumbi: really needs more support than open hardware... Feb 11 10:55:00 leinir: what time in the uk ? Feb 11 10:55:03 foolano: Oh, absolutely - i'm trying hard to stay positive here :P (anybody who knows me knows how hard it is to get me down ;) ) Feb 11 10:55:06 I thought it was clear from the start, MeeGo is a seperate entity Feb 11 10:55:08 sivaN900: 10.53 Feb 11 10:55:22 like a child is a seperate entity from both it's parents Feb 11 10:55:26 leinir: ok thanks and yes to that ! Feb 11 10:55:35 in the start it requires them to live and grow Feb 11 10:55:36 CosmoHill: you re positive, good Feb 11 10:55:39 happy faces all around today - eh? :-) Feb 11 10:55:39 CosmoHill: *nods* but a lot of people in the press fail to realise that :) just look at how the BBC reports it ;) Feb 11 10:55:44 @qtbynokia: Everyone who asked about Qt's future, please stay tuned. We need to understand things better and will come back to you. Feb 11 10:55:50 tybollt: Totally ;) Feb 11 10:56:14 MeeGo is still a kid and one of it's parents has just walked out but it can still grow to become an adult Feb 11 10:56:27 foolano: yes, but who knows what M$ offered them in contrast to goog Feb 11 10:56:31 start polishing your CVs Feb 11 10:56:33 CosmoHill: sure Feb 11 10:56:37 CosmoHill: did nookla drop it _all together_? Feb 11 10:56:41 bust most likely it'll end up on the streets and in jail by the time it turns 20 Feb 11 10:56:45 please don't use M$, it makes you look stupid Feb 11 10:56:49 foolano: I bet that goog was not willing to concede to anything, why should they? Feb 11 10:56:54 moofree: lol Feb 11 10:56:55 I mean using M$ instead of MS Feb 11 10:56:58 lots of other companies are doing cool stuff on meego: http://meego.com/about/public-support-meego Feb 11 10:57:14 CosmoHill: yes but for me, i m not developer, and it seems that meego is not very succesfully..... please correct me! Feb 11 10:57:20 CosmoHill: so, did Nokia drop it all together? Feb 11 10:57:25 DawnFoster: yeah, like weetab :) Feb 11 10:57:30 omg bad news Feb 11 10:57:48 i hate MS on Nokia phones!! Feb 11 10:57:56 tybollt: tbh I've been awake 20 minutes Feb 11 10:58:02 CosmoHill: :) Feb 11 10:58:10 DawnFoster: indeed lets hope my interview phone call from finland will get indeed rescheduled as it was cancelled this morning Feb 11 10:58:12 av500/Dawn: it's hard to compare WeTab with anything from the far east manufacturers who are all supporting Android... WeTab is a drop in the ocean. Feb 11 10:58:20 I just hope port 8000 is open at uni Feb 11 10:59:05 av500: my point is that this might be a valid short-term strategy, but for the long term they should their own ecosystem or they'll turn into yet another hw manufacturer Feb 11 10:59:11 I just updated my LinkedIn profile and removed MeeGo references :P Feb 11 10:59:16 The problem with Maemo and now MeeGo, is that in all this time they produced very few products and virtually none that anyone wanted. Feb 11 10:59:19 from: http://meego.com/about/public-support-meego these are mostly companies that offered stuff on top of meego, not meego adopters for products Feb 11 10:59:30 will MeeGo continue? or will it be replaced by MS software on Nokia phones? Feb 11 10:59:33 tybollt: No - they'll even be releasing at least one MeeGo device, and it's still listed as a part of the business unit doing smart devices Feb 11 10:59:35 http://conversations.nokia.com/images/Nokia-10-2-11-SLE-14.jpg Feb 11 11:00:10 really sad day for nokia Feb 11 11:00:11 Milhouse: the problem is people buy iphone and stupid other compagny copy this!!! Feb 11 11:00:16 leinir: yep, one MeeGo device with no future - who is going to buy it? Feb 11 11:00:35 i sold my Nokia shares today - all of them Feb 11 11:00:52 before or after the drop? Feb 11 11:00:55 leinir: am I corrent in assuming that MeeGo device would be a netbook of some kind? Feb 11 11:00:56 good one tuOki Feb 11 11:00:58 after drop Feb 11 11:01:00 sadly Feb 11 11:01:02 darn Feb 11 11:01:05 only 10% :P Feb 11 11:01:06 CosmoHill: Didn't say :) Feb 11 11:01:10 but i managed to get little bit profit still Feb 11 11:01:11 naila1: No the problem is that there is no alternative to iPhone etc. - MeeGo was not an alternative, as you can't buy it. Poor execution. Feb 11 11:01:13 omg sad picture Feb 11 11:01:34 Microsoft has gaind a lot, Nokia nothing Feb 11 11:01:34 but i do not want to own company after this Feb 11 11:01:37 disgusting Feb 11 11:01:55 hi michele Feb 11 11:01:55 Qt and MeeGo was future and they did not understand that Feb 11 11:02:03 i also sold my shares this morning Feb 11 11:02:06 i agree Feb 11 11:02:08 the big photo with evil is disgusting indeed Feb 11 11:02:11 Maybe if the share price tanks further they'll get rid of Elop before it's too late... :) Feb 11 11:02:14 oh it's too early in the morning for this Feb 11 11:02:23 tvainio: good call Feb 11 11:02:24 fffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu Feb 11 11:02:31 it's hard to sell the stock before Feb 11 11:02:34 lolloo: appropriate meme there :) Feb 11 11:02:39 since markets open at 10 :) Feb 11 11:02:40 not with INSIDER INFORMATION! Feb 11 11:02:42 maybe egyptian or tunisian peoples want open phone.................. Feb 11 11:03:09 they want the gsm network not switched off Feb 11 11:03:13 niala1: I think Egypt would want a stable government first Feb 11 11:03:20 i doubt they care about the phone Feb 11 11:03:34 CosmoHill: so do us :-) Feb 11 11:03:43 ok ok i m nervosu Feb 11 11:03:45 nervous Feb 11 11:03:55 ppl want phones to make calls and update facebook.... Feb 11 11:04:13 great, I'm not ppl :( Feb 11 11:04:14 "who would buy a meego device if it's not being developed actively?" "well i think you answered your own question" .. sad,sad Feb 11 11:04:15 just because nokia now doesn't mean that everything is lost... Feb 11 11:04:25 err Feb 11 11:04:27 wow Feb 11 11:04:31 just because nokia IS EVIL now Feb 11 11:04:54 robo: that taking it a bit out of context tho, he did continue with "if we release something we will ensure that it has support" Feb 11 11:05:07 really they've been evil since september you just didn't realize Feb 11 11:05:24 bring back OPK... ;) Feb 11 11:05:27 what an ugly photo Feb 11 11:05:38 ugly guy shaking another ugly guy's hand Feb 11 11:05:42 with ugly grins Feb 11 11:06:08 see ypu all in 12 uk time Feb 11 11:07:21 "I was indifferent on Thursday. Today I am different" Feb 11 11:07:31 this is one of the blackest days for open source and for linux. it states as if linux is not ready for prime time Feb 11 11:07:39 Didn't someone at Nokia say that "Qt is the Future"? Feb 11 11:08:01 lcuk: flee now or forever be depressed Feb 11 11:08:03 topeira: Nokia can't maintain the same strategy for more than 5 minutes. Feb 11 11:08:05 oh looks like this channel is duplicating everyting in #maemo Feb 11 11:08:21 hey Sazpaimon funny seeing you here Feb 11 11:08:26 lcuk: do what he says Feb 11 11:08:26 akikhaw: just because they said they'd make sure it had support doesn't mean they will, Symbian case and point Feb 11 11:08:35 sivaN900: I like my linux prime time android phone a lot Feb 11 11:08:36 Sazpaimon: well they're kinda the same thing ish Feb 11 11:08:43 hi Feb 11 11:09:10 av500: yes thst is the remaining sanest choice i guess Feb 11 11:09:23 av500: and the closest to opeh Feb 11 11:09:28 not really, nokia killed off maemo long ago, so i dont know why they're crying about current events there Feb 11 11:09:40 meego/we miss asian people to help develop meego Feb 11 11:09:56 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12427680 Feb 11 11:09:58 good bye Nokia Feb 11 11:09:58 topeira: yup, that what they said over and over again during the Qt Dev Days .. Feb 11 11:10:00 you were once a great compnay Feb 11 11:10:02 WIndows as main smartphone OS lol Feb 11 11:10:10 I like this: ""Nokia will adopt Windows Phone as its primary smartphone strategy, innovating on top of the platform in areas such as imaging, where Nokia is a market leader," <--- Nokia made one decent camera phone, on Symbian, and that's where they think they will innovate on WP7? lol Feb 11 11:10:23 DawnFoster: meego/we miss asian people to help develop meego Feb 11 11:10:35 they're pushing Qt on Symbian now? this is starting to confuse me even more Feb 11 11:10:39 will we have qt dev days still ? the whole show case in october was around mobile and tablets Feb 11 11:10:51 moofree: it is a suicide Feb 11 11:10:56 Nokia also released the first phone with NFC, in 2006... Feb 11 11:10:59 well yeah Feb 11 11:11:02 They are confused themselves Feb 11 11:11:02 how is the stock ? Feb 11 11:11:19 sivaN900: -9.93 : http://www.nasdaqomxnordic.com/shares/shareinformation/?Instrument=HEX24311 Feb 11 11:11:21 thats what ya get when you get a former MS employee to run your business Feb 11 11:11:24 you know on the bright side Feb 11 11:11:27 more confusion, back to the old Feb 11 11:11:28 Sazpaimon: cos Nokia killed of their replacement? Feb 11 11:11:33 Give it time, once the dirt storm recedes, you will see the hole shape, and maybe even the coffin Feb 11 11:11:34 LinuxCode+++ Feb 11 11:11:36 sivaN900: down sharply Feb 11 11:11:42 nokia hasn't seen this much press in in a long time Feb 11 11:11:47 http://www.google.co.uk/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:NOK Feb 11 11:11:48 -*in Feb 11 11:11:52 LinuxCode: how sure are we that he's "former" Feb 11 11:11:53 glad I will ahve my N900 for the next 3 eyars Feb 11 11:11:55 can not we write somethong to board of directors ? Feb 11 11:11:56 -7.25% now Feb 11 11:12:03 -7.25, recovering Feb 11 11:12:09 jjardon, NYSE hasn't even opened yet Feb 11 11:12:11 time for the gnu to take over and release GNU Slash Maemo (/me vomits) Feb 11 11:12:14 best thing is, windows phone is the worst selling OS for mobile smartphones Feb 11 11:12:18 meego Feb 11 11:12:27 Almost -10% at finnish exhange which is open Feb 11 11:12:32 and they think they will gain market share ? Feb 11 11:12:33 jjardon, Milhouse : i still see -9.93 Feb 11 11:12:36 LinuxCode: this is why it is suicide Feb 11 11:12:47 LinuxCode: it will never make it Feb 11 11:12:47 which is why I said, Good Bye Nokia Feb 11 11:12:56 LinuxCode: precisly Feb 11 11:13:00 at least microsoft has deep pockets to waste on advertising! Feb 11 11:13:12 500 million here and there and soon you're wasting a lot of money Feb 11 11:13:16 moofree, people know what thir MS based computers are like Feb 11 11:13:29 they dont want that, hence most are buying Apple now Feb 11 11:13:36 lol Feb 11 11:13:36 This deal is much better for ms than for nokia. Basically MS gets a huge company to support their own tanking platform Feb 11 11:13:41 everybody who has stocks should sell them to vote with legs against this Feb 11 11:13:44 they dont want a virus riddled, insecure, crap OS Feb 11 11:13:58 and I say this as a person who dopesnt like Apple either Feb 11 11:13:59 like tvainio and another here Feb 11 11:14:13 sharpneli, it smells corrupt Feb 11 11:14:15 we might see more coverage in the US market for nokia though Feb 11 11:14:24 so they'd get some US exposure they desperately need Feb 11 11:14:25 he leaves, and now Nokia drops everything but MS Feb 11 11:14:27 i would sell mine if i had any Feb 11 11:14:35 on this news, which is still confusing, if i was in the market considering a symbian phone i'd now be considering an alternative as the message today is that there is no future in that platform... so i would expect sales to fall in the near future. Q1/11 will be interesting. Feb 11 11:14:51 Osborne effect, basically. Feb 11 11:14:51 well even that i sold my "real" shares i build similar position with derivatives Feb 11 11:14:57 sivaN900, that is what MS probably wants, if the stock price drops low enough then it will be easier to aquire what is left of nokia Feb 11 11:15:00 Milhouse, and peopel will opt into Android or iOS Feb 11 11:15:05 lol Feb 11 11:15:08 kavacha1: ah Feb 11 11:15:11 LinuxCode: exactly. Feb 11 11:15:11 MS will be last on their minds Feb 11 11:15:14 kavacha1: oops sorry then Feb 11 11:15:16 CosmoHill, sivaN900 - in amongst all this faff, I went showing my mum how well apps work on MeeGo ideapad and handset. :) Feb 11 11:15:25 trojan maaaaann Feb 11 11:15:27 kavacha1: how do we save nokia ? Feb 11 11:15:31 kavacha1: then ? Feb 11 11:15:33 lcuk: I heard you telling DawnFoster that Feb 11 11:15:38 she really enjoyed it and had a game of tictactoe with Jake on the ideapad Feb 11 11:15:38 sivaN900, better option Feb 11 11:15:39 :) Feb 11 11:15:47 lcuk: cool Feb 11 11:15:48 find devices that will run any OS Feb 11 11:15:50 the employees should stage a global walk out in protest Feb 11 11:15:52 or distribution Feb 11 11:15:56 and demand a change in CEO Feb 11 11:16:01 lcuk: my mum can't use the DVD player but she's a guild leader on WoW, go figure Feb 11 11:16:04 but that is not likely to happen Feb 11 11:16:08 :( Feb 11 11:16:08 I'm not going to get any work done today Feb 11 11:16:10 Frankly, as someone whos actually used wp7 extensively rather than just blathering on with "omg its windazz, run!!" WP7 is not bad, and the xbox integration possibilities are massive for gamers. but I dont get the timing, if the wp7 transition's expected to take years how the hell could nokia not manage to get symbian's ui fixed up, and meego devices released, in that time? Feb 11 11:16:11 lol CosmoHill my mum can't either Feb 11 11:16:13 kavacha1: i was going to say that but was afraid Feb 11 11:16:14 kavacha1: no Feb 11 11:16:15 but she loves the calendar! Feb 11 11:16:18 stupid people with their jobs not wanting to get fired for a walkout Feb 11 11:16:20 kavacha1: this is not about the CEO Feb 11 11:16:22 kavachi: vote of no confidence, but probably a bit late for that now. Feb 11 11:16:27 lcuk: I let my mom play with a meego netbook a while back and she liked it. Feb 11 11:16:29 how dare they not put phone platform above their own paycheck Feb 11 11:16:39 DawnFoster, :D Feb 11 11:16:43 kavacha1: Nokia board SPECIFICALLY hired Ellop to deploy windows on their smartphones Feb 11 11:16:50 make apps for real people (non computer folks) to use! Feb 11 11:16:51 kavachi: this is all about appealing to the shareholders... Feb 11 11:16:56 tybollt: I agree Feb 11 11:17:00 the only thing I showed my mum recently was some image processing I did in a matlab alternative Feb 11 11:17:01 in 4 months Feb 11 11:17:03 kavacha1: this has nothing to do w/ steve ellop - he's just doing what he was told to do Feb 11 11:17:04 tybollt : i do not believe it Feb 11 11:17:05 that's clear from today's announcement Feb 11 11:17:07 this plan did not just hatch Feb 11 11:17:09 this was going to happen Feb 11 11:17:16 months ago Feb 11 11:17:23 tybollt, then the board needs sacking Feb 11 11:17:23 they give just CEO free hands to do as he sees best Feb 11 11:17:23 evil since september Feb 11 11:17:25 TuOki^: neither do i Feb 11 11:17:49 11.2.11 Feb 11 11:17:57 LinuxCode: so buy some stocks... only the shareholders (owners) can do that :) Feb 11 11:18:09 Ans5i: i propose a memorial day Feb 11 11:18:11 nope, I just will buy another product Feb 11 11:18:12 Ari must be breathing a sigh of relief Feb 11 11:18:21 if Nokia goes bankcrupt, I do not care Feb 11 11:18:21 CosmoHill, I went watching Shane Walter from OneDotZero last night, he gave a really good chat about moving image and innovations and collaborative experiences they have been part of over the years :) Feb 11 11:18:22 tybollt: You're sure that board spesifically wanted WP7? Feb 11 11:18:24 -c Feb 11 11:18:26 Got out while the going was good. Feb 11 11:18:27 Milhouse: indeed Feb 11 11:18:34 I've just thought, thank god I'm not a mod on these forums Feb 11 11:18:38 well Feb 11 11:18:40 then Feb 11 11:19:18 Whats the current market cap of Nokia? Feb 11 11:19:27 laters Feb 11 11:19:33 40.75 B dollars Feb 11 11:19:35 $40bn Feb 11 11:19:37 about 10% less than an hour ago ;) Feb 11 11:19:40 this has been too much already Feb 11 11:19:42 yes Feb 11 11:20:21 hmph Feb 11 11:20:28 morn iekku Feb 11 11:20:33 harumph Feb 11 11:20:35 Stskeeps, morning Feb 11 11:20:39 No doubt this will become an object lesson in business in years to come Feb 11 11:20:39 now don't be hasty mr. nokia Feb 11 11:20:54 "How to lose it all" Feb 11 11:21:00 "MeeGo and Mobile Solutions head Alberto Torres has stepped down from the company's management team, effective Feb. 10," Feb 11 11:21:31 I doubt any one group, person or organization could obtain enough Nokia shares to be able to have any real influence over the running on the company Feb 11 11:21:37 Not with a $40bn market cap Feb 11 11:21:52 bill gates could do it ^.^ Feb 11 11:22:03 lbt: Ouch Feb 11 11:22:04 hedge funds working together could, quite easily. Feb 11 11:22:20 jonwil: 40 bn is nothing intodays markets Feb 11 11:22:33 Milhouse: +1 Feb 11 11:22:53 some hedge fund managers get paid in excess of 1 billion a year Feb 11 11:22:56 yeah maybe some uber ritch guy could or maybe a hedge-fund group could do it. But no-one who would actually WANT to influence the running of the company would be able to do it Feb 11 11:23:23 really what would 40 billion be to MS Feb 11 11:23:39 I cant see Microsoft actually buying Nokia Feb 11 11:23:42 kavachi: all of their cash reserves, apparently Feb 11 11:23:44 investors care about money, not what platform their phones run Feb 11 11:24:04 why would ms need to pay 40 billion for nokia? they already bought the nokia leadership, they don't need to buy the shares Feb 11 11:24:06 now we just gotta ruin windows mobile somehow... Feb 11 11:24:16 "Windows Mobile 7 killed my dog" Feb 11 11:24:16 moofree, they will care a lot, wen Nokia goes down to 10-20% marketshare Feb 11 11:24:29 already down 10% Feb 11 11:24:36 :P Feb 11 11:24:41 moofree : no investors as like i care quite mucg Feb 11 11:24:43 hedge funds will get out of the shares if the company fails Feb 11 11:24:43 -g +h Feb 11 11:24:51 Oh boy. I'm still shocked. Feb 11 11:25:02 as will other normal investors Feb 11 11:25:21 smart investors will get out _before_ the company fails Feb 11 11:25:34 moofree: hedge funds etc. cares only stock movement is it up or down they dont care they just want momenton Feb 11 11:25:37 lilke some of you have already done, you smart people :D Feb 11 11:25:37 Can't imagine I'll ever buy another Nokia phone now. Feb 11 11:25:40 Ms indeed has no real reasons of purchasing Nokia as Nokia practically does their bidding already. Feb 11 11:25:43 modfree : you cannot no those things Feb 11 11:26:01 when stock goes up or down you cannot no it Feb 11 11:26:07 know* Feb 11 11:26:13 i never said i did know Feb 11 11:26:14 Looks like my N900 will be the first and last Nokia handset I own Feb 11 11:26:15 yeps Feb 11 11:26:19 this is just speculation Feb 11 11:26:27 sharpneli: Fairly. A CEO can't just decide on such a major reorganization of the entire company that this move is by himself - he needs to secure such a decision w/ the board. Feb 11 11:26:39 certainly since it needs very strong financial backing Feb 11 11:26:46 jonwil, there will be one more device Feb 11 11:26:46 but yea hedge funds have make lot of money today with Nokia Feb 11 11:26:49 with meego on it Feb 11 11:26:50 so yeah - this was most likely orders "from above" Feb 11 11:26:51 couldn't we just buy nokia and make it a community based company? :) Feb 11 11:27:00 hhehe not with our money Feb 11 11:27:02 but after that, def Feb 11 11:27:03 tybollt: Or he managed to talk them around. It's called marketing ;D Feb 11 11:27:04 develop the beset ever seen OS named meego Feb 11 11:27:04 he needs to secure the decision with those board members that didnt quit/get fired, yes Feb 11 11:27:14 question: the more open handset is android? Feb 11 11:27:25 we need to have approx 1-2 bn euros so that we could really get control over Nokia Feb 11 11:27:28 sharpneli: come now - why do you think they would hire HIM of all people? :) Feb 11 11:27:33 the thing about meego was, that I didnt see meego as a standalone option Feb 11 11:27:37 Wonder if we can go back to using Clutter/MX and GTK+ now Feb 11 11:27:44 some of the meego stuff would end up in other distributions Feb 11 11:27:49 I want a meego t-shirt Feb 11 11:27:54 and that is the way things will go... Feb 11 11:28:02 tybollt: He's been COO of Juniper, CEO of Macromedia etc. Feb 11 11:28:06 tybollt: He has experience. Feb 11 11:28:10 mece: welcome to the summit finland then :) Feb 11 11:28:11 tested my qml game on WeTab just now. Very very nice and smooth! yay! Feb 11 11:28:12 "i coded for meego and all i got was this stupid t-shirt" shirt? Feb 11 11:28:14 you wont find dedicated handset OS' in the near future Feb 11 11:28:16 there may well be another device. But we dont know that such a device will be a phone Feb 11 11:28:22 sharpneli: what was his last employer - again? :) Feb 11 11:28:22 sandst1, when is it? Feb 11 11:28:39 mece: 15-16th april, registrations full though.. Feb 11 11:28:39 summit.meegonetwork.fi Feb 11 11:28:56 Time to go see this announcement from the other side of the fence ( Feb 11 11:29:01 tybollt: Oh for christ sake, he was just 2 years at MS. Do you think MS hired him from Juniper in order to switch ms switchs into juniper?-) Feb 11 11:29:02 (xda-developers Win Phone 7 forum0 Feb 11 11:29:03 sandst1, well if kypeli doesn't want to go... Feb 11 11:29:06 sandst1: Let me guess - Microsoft is main sponsor of the event? :D Feb 11 11:29:11 http://conversations.nokia.com/nokia-strategy-2011/ Feb 11 11:29:13 All Nokia will produce is another MeeGo "project" phone - another device with all the aesthetics of a house brick, not something that is meant to succeed. Feb 11 11:29:14 "free micrososft cd's for all" Feb 11 11:29:17 tybollt: ^^ Feb 11 11:29:27 tybollt: Or juniper wanted flash when they hired him from Adobe?-) Feb 11 11:29:43 well the "project" phones are the best! Feb 11 11:30:05 nokia migrate like lemmings lol Feb 11 11:30:45 sharpneli: Did you have this debate in first grade when the math teach tried to tell you 1+1=2, as well? Feb 11 11:30:52 Milhouse, Nokia have capability to bottle up the smiles from people in Helsinki as they emerged to the first snow of the year and spread it around the world. Feb 11 11:31:03 tybollt: Yes! Feb 11 11:31:08 xda-developers people are going on about how good this move by Nokia is Feb 11 11:31:17 rofl Feb 11 11:31:23 and how "this move means I might actually buy a Nokia" Feb 11 11:31:35 "yeah now there's a phone that actually has windows mobile 7 WOW!" Feb 11 11:31:44 just wait to see meegoboy laugh :) Feb 11 11:31:48 :D Feb 11 11:31:50 he's banned Feb 11 11:31:58 lcuk: people are smiling in helsinki? Feb 11 11:32:01 Stskeeps: who's he? Feb 11 11:32:07 Milhouse, they were when I was there. Feb 11 11:32:14 Stskeeps: May I ask how you feel today? Feb 11 11:32:16 Milhouse: mostly not Feb 11 11:32:20 I was walking through the city centre when the first snow of the year arrived Feb 11 11:32:29 Milhouse: unless cynical half grin counts Feb 11 11:32:29 and people were coming out of their doors and seeing it for the first time Feb 11 11:32:32 lcuk: can't imagine they are today, but what do I know... :) Feb 11 11:32:38 the smiles and glee on faces was broad and wide Feb 11 11:32:40 frals, are you on here? Feb 11 11:32:58 tybollt: @!$@ describes it pretty well but i doubt i'll be running out of job opportunities anytime soon Feb 11 11:33:14 Stskeeps :) Feb 11 11:33:33 Stskeeps, I _really_ hope the n900 hardware adaptation will continue. Feb 11 11:33:35 Stskeeps: :-/ Feb 11 11:34:40 mece, its over some of its major hurdles and infrastructure is in place so images get out. ensuring the community apps build well is a priority even whilst adaption work continues Feb 11 11:35:02 honestly, i still believe in MeeGo - it's a great platform to work with. Feb 11 11:35:49 and this entire shuffle might end up with a better situation than before Feb 11 11:35:56 Stskeeps: do you think it's still going to produce good devices? Feb 11 11:35:56 maybe be phone with choice.. win7 or meego :) Feb 11 11:36:03 beware, I tweet stuff you say that is interesting.. Feb 11 11:36:04 :) Feb 11 11:36:22 mece: keep in mind i'm not a nokia employee Feb 11 11:36:22 :P Feb 11 11:36:34 Stskeeps, I know. Feb 11 11:36:47 ccooke: i mean, 1.2 is the one intended to people to productise using, and it's actually quite nice Feb 11 11:37:04 Stskeeps, you say cool stuff. So I tweet it :) Feb 11 11:38:32 Stskeeps, how is 1.2 currently on N900? is it something you could use as your phone (if you're nerdy and masochistic) Feb 11 11:40:55 Stskeeps: *nod* I'd be tryign it now, if I had a spare n900 with working usb port :-/ Feb 11 11:41:18 (must get aroundd to fixing that) Feb 11 11:43:36 how old is MeeGo? Feb 11 11:43:41 almost a year now Feb 11 11:43:53 it's birthday is some time next week i think Feb 11 11:44:09 Tomi Ahonen is shocked... Feb 11 11:44:09 http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2011/02/first-analysis-of-nokia-microsoft-alliance-wow-this-is-good-for-microsoft.html Feb 11 11:44:12 Stskeeps: how's upi ? Feb 11 11:44:17 upi? Feb 11 11:44:22 err Feb 11 11:44:29 Stskeeps: 'sup ? :) Feb 11 11:44:54 I dare not even open tmo today... Feb 11 11:44:58 ok i will. Feb 11 11:44:59 heh Feb 11 11:45:56 mece: bad plan :-) Feb 11 11:46:12 ok closing it now. Feb 11 11:48:01 I take this is old by now? Feb 11 11:48:06 http://i.imgur.com/4kepL.jpg Feb 11 11:48:14 aahaha Feb 11 11:48:15 apt Feb 11 11:48:30 amazing what you find on blogsphere surrounding this events Feb 11 11:49:06 any word from quim today? Feb 11 11:50:25 lol: "....And MeeGo? What a kick in the face of Nokia's last-year partner, Intel? This is really painful news for Intel...." Feb 11 11:50:45 oh man Feb 11 11:50:48 Intel Phone where? Feb 11 11:50:48 av500: intel should not care much. they are the strongest cpu mfct inthe world Feb 11 11:50:52 how do I set arm architecture to armv7hl from the default armv7el Feb 11 11:51:01 sivang_shock: exactly Feb 11 11:51:07 hence my lol Feb 11 11:51:11 raghum: #meego-arm will tell you Feb 11 11:51:12 i wonder. the meego device, will obviously be a project phone with no future. Which means it could be awesome for hackers Feb 11 11:51:23 thanks Feb 11 11:51:27 hackers have no future ;) Feb 11 11:51:45 mece: root an android phone and start hacking today.... Feb 11 11:51:56 why wait for awesomephone? Feb 11 11:51:58 so I guess y'all have heard about Nokia going with windows phone? :( Feb 11 11:52:05 angasule: really= Feb 11 11:52:07 oh yeah Feb 11 11:52:07 angasule: really? Feb 11 11:52:08 angasule: not really Feb 11 11:52:09 I dont want android, I want meego Feb 11 11:52:10 orlY? Feb 11 11:52:12 http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/02/11/open-letter-from-ceo-stephen-elop-nokia-and-ceo-steve-ballmer-microsoft/ Feb 11 11:52:16 mece: install it Feb 11 11:52:18 hadn't heard Feb 11 11:52:24 #qt-chat is another interesting channel atm btw ;-) Feb 11 11:52:28 oo Feb 11 11:52:47 angasule: that's a fake Feb 11 11:53:25 WeGO MeeGo! Feb 11 11:53:57 av500: how do you figure? Feb 11 11:54:25 angasule: it was a joke Feb 11 11:54:35 it's fake cause ballmer's horns aren't visible Feb 11 11:54:37 "LG will consider making their own OS like bada, might actually try to woo Intel into 'MeeGo part 2'" -> learn korean! Feb 11 11:54:39 obviously photoshopped Feb 11 11:54:51 av500: hmm? Feb 11 11:55:11 from Ahonen Feb 11 11:55:17 av500: http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1488007 Feb 11 11:55:30 it - was - a - joke Feb 11 11:55:39 * av500 joked Feb 11 11:55:56 * jonwil is getting nowhere with N900 projects Feb 11 11:56:04 I wonder what will happen with meego and Qt :( Feb 11 11:57:12 work continues? Feb 11 11:57:17 Any ideas on how the Finnish press are reporting this? Feb 11 11:57:18 Well it is a non-binding as of now Feb 11 11:57:23 they are still negotiating Feb 11 11:57:39 But I think if market response is good they will proceed Feb 11 11:57:53 if market response is good I'm moving to another planet Feb 11 11:58:00 Milhouse, they are like wolfs Feb 11 11:58:09 I'm not happy either Feb 11 11:58:13 already reporters outside at the nokia premises Feb 11 11:58:21 I have been waiting for meego phone for a long time now =) Feb 11 11:58:22 the only people that are happy are the windows people Feb 11 11:58:23 Frye: you mean the deal is not done yet? Feb 11 11:58:30 iekku: so happy, or unhappy? Feb 11 11:58:38 DISCLAIMER Feb 11 11:58:38 Nokia and Microsoft have entered into a non-binding term sheet. The planned partnership remains subject to negotiations and execution of the definitive agreements by the parties and there can be no assurances that the definitive agreements would be entered into. Feb 11 11:58:52 iekku: a good move for one of finlands biggest companies, or not? Feb 11 11:58:57 Frye: uh-ha Feb 11 11:58:58 From the press release Feb 11 11:59:05 Frye: me too, sad day for open os Feb 11 11:59:06 http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1488007 Feb 11 11:59:16 Frye: so if wp7 fails to deilver, as it will WeGo back to MeeGo? Feb 11 11:59:16 Milhouse, i'm in meego, i'm not happy with the news Feb 11 11:59:20 sad day indeed Feb 11 11:59:27 I'm not going to speculate Feb 11 11:59:31 I have no clue Feb 11 11:59:33 <[Rui]> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/meego/ Feb 11 11:59:38 I was 99.99% sure this would not happen Feb 11 11:59:42 and I was wrong Feb 11 11:59:56 Milhouse, but that's only my opinion Feb 11 12:00:14 it probably hits harder all the smaller companies who went meego+qt when nokia announced it was way to go Feb 11 12:00:14 this was the worst news I have ever heard from a tech company ever. Feb 11 12:00:15 iekku: no not you, the opinion of the Finnish press Feb 11 12:00:17 [Rui]: and? Feb 11 12:00:27 no man you weren't wrong, you were just .001% right Feb 11 12:00:31 .01% i mean Feb 11 12:00:49 "Bing would power Nokia's search..." should i laugh or should i cry ? Feb 11 12:00:49 appears I'm rather emotionally invested in meego and Qt Feb 11 12:00:59 jarkkom: backing Nokia and their future direction is a risky business, that will probably never change. Feb 11 12:01:08 mece: then help move ahead meego, it's open Feb 11 12:01:19 mece: that is my point... nokia is certainly not gaining goodwill w/ this move Feb 11 12:01:26 Yeah, there are lots of small companies near here that went to QT&maemo/meego development Feb 11 12:01:38 niala1, laugh until tears appear Feb 11 12:01:41 I have seen significant amounts of money poured into the training of their staff Feb 11 12:01:50 i mean Feb 11 12:01:50 nokia just announced to fire some more people Feb 11 12:01:52 Stskeeps, I know. And I believe I will have a device (newer device than n900) that use meego soon enough. Feb 11 12:01:53 to train them from Symbian to Qt Feb 11 12:01:53 MeeGo isn't technically bad Feb 11 12:02:01 janmalte, where, and who? Feb 11 12:02:17 it was a headline in the radio news right now Feb 11 12:02:20 Nokia is the new Palm Feb 11 12:02:24 and transitioning to winmo7 devs is useless because currently winmo7 API is so limited that you cannot do anything useful with it except XNA games Feb 11 12:02:32 janmalte, do you have a link? Feb 11 12:02:37 <[Rui]> av500: and subscribe if you want, don't if you don't want to. it's the same for me :) Feb 11 12:02:42 topeira, well the new hp products seem nice.. Feb 11 12:02:51 but at least people can learn .net and start doing sharepoint or something :) Feb 11 12:02:51 thats another good question Feb 11 12:02:52 mece: yes, HP... Feb 11 12:02:53 there's music in the live streem again.. Feb 11 12:02:57 how can a company go from being the most open to... microsoft? :( Feb 11 12:03:03 mobile phone business try to make more money with app sales Feb 11 12:03:09 angasule, by getting a microsoft person as the CEO Feb 11 12:03:11 but MS dropped silverlight Feb 11 12:03:20 and told those people to get lost Feb 11 12:03:28 i'm searching Feb 11 12:03:30 then they said, but we will keep it for mobiles Feb 11 12:03:33 money money money Feb 11 12:03:33 but hey, we are here for the meego, not for the nokia, right? Feb 11 12:03:41 * Stskeeps 's with iekku Feb 11 12:03:48 ah, crap Feb 11 12:03:48 iekku, naturally Feb 11 12:03:54 meego's meego, even though it might have lost a big contributor Feb 11 12:04:05 Stskeeps, +1 Feb 11 12:04:16 definately. But I still need a device from someone... Feb 11 12:04:24 Stskeeps: without nokia, who backs it up? Intel? MeeGo was interesting because of ARM Feb 11 12:04:24 so this will be a big bump in the road, but not a fatal wound Feb 11 12:04:29 LinuxCode: people are stupid, they buy the most closed os never been ios ant now the other compagnies copy this ecosystem Feb 11 12:04:34 angasule: who says ARM can't continue? i mean Feb 11 12:04:39 angasule: Linaro pretty much delivers the toolchain Feb 11 12:04:58 angasule, ? Feb 11 12:05:03 After the first (and apparently, only) MeeGo device ships this year, the MeeGo team will then "change their focus into an exploration of future platforms, future devices, future user experiences." Trying to determine the "next disruption" in smartphones. Feb 11 12:05:11 arm is one of the most successful chip companies ever Feb 11 12:05:14 iekku: mece: http://newsticker.sueddeutsche.de/list/id/1109948 Feb 11 12:05:26 don't know if there are any international news Feb 11 12:05:29 just wonder if nokia will still contribute to the qt-ui libraries Feb 11 12:05:36 http://i.imgur.com/4kepL.jpg Feb 11 12:05:38 well, a meego *has* apparently now lost one of it's major sources of actual devices to start gaining traction, which is needs to become popular Feb 11 12:05:40 angasule: rest of pieces is just fixing builds Feb 11 12:05:48 as Nokia holds control of QT Feb 11 12:05:58 question is, what will happen to that Feb 11 12:06:12 I guess worst case, it be forked Feb 11 12:06:13 LinuxCode, that is a very good question Feb 11 12:06:30 maybe red hat would buy it Feb 11 12:06:32 http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqt_announcement.php , LinuxCode Feb 11 12:06:35 <_berto_> live webcast again -> nokia.com/press Feb 11 12:06:40 Stskeeps, aha ta Feb 11 12:06:53 Page 32 of the slides. Feb 11 12:06:57 hahah Feb 11 12:07:04 I kinda knew that was coming Feb 11 12:07:15 X-Fade: hmm? Feb 11 12:07:47 I need to go through some kind of EULA to watch a live stream? haha forget about it Feb 11 12:08:15 Stskeeps: how interesting Feb 11 12:08:16 hmm, I think I'm going soon home, and start to enjoy weekend with my friends :) Feb 11 12:08:29 Stskeeps: I wonder if that agreement has been completed Feb 11 12:08:34 RST38h: supposedly it has Feb 11 12:08:37 even by nokia Feb 11 12:08:51 Stskeeps, the trolltech kde one ? Feb 11 12:09:47 maybe intel will buy qt... Feb 11 12:09:52 my live stream seem dead. Feb 11 12:09:55 Stskeeps: I don't get it, meego is so close Feb 11 12:09:57 are you getting anything? Feb 11 12:09:57 working here Feb 11 12:09:59 Milhouse: at this particular point, i really hope that Feb 11 12:10:01 grr Feb 11 12:10:01 Stskeeps: closer than ever Feb 11 12:10:02 it was a sad day to know about those Windows Phone plans. Feb 11 12:10:15 ok got it Feb 11 12:11:29 why were there only two options? downloads from ovi are growing at the rate of 0.5m/downloads a day per month... seems like Nokia don't have the balls or belief to grow their own Feb 11 12:11:41 depressing Feb 11 12:11:46 bah "those were the 2 options" \@/ there is always another way. Feb 11 12:12:08 i hear his argument, but find it very hard to believe any of it Feb 11 12:12:11 ok.. how praytell is ms better in any way whatsoever???? Feb 11 12:12:19 * LinuxCode forks lcuk and creates 3 more branch lcuks Feb 11 12:12:24 \o/ yayy Feb 11 12:12:26 he might as well talk about wp7 now.. Feb 11 12:12:36 what is in slide 32? Feb 11 12:12:37 it looks like Richard Branson has fixed my internet though :) Feb 11 12:12:52 LinuxCode, all last week in all the channels I had about 10 clones in each lol Feb 11 12:12:52 lcuk, yeah, he ddi that from the plane he is on atm Feb 11 12:13:01 And choosing MS isn't giving up??? WTF???!!!!! Feb 11 12:13:05 lcuk, hehe Feb 11 12:13:07 Milhouse: exactly Feb 11 12:13:08 haha so we decided to commit suicide instead of just give up Feb 11 12:13:21 The man is a twat Feb 11 12:13:34 he was part of Microsoft for how long? Feb 11 12:13:41 wait.. THAT IS THE EXACTLY SAME SCENARIO YOU JUST SAID WERE BAD ABOUT ANDROID!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Feb 11 12:13:41 mece: You are not getting it! The brave man has jumped into cold waters and has been saved!!! Feb 11 12:13:43 idiot Feb 11 12:13:45 in the slides there is a picture showing nokia r&d investment Feb 11 12:14:07 we should read something to cheer us up, I recommend Dawn of the Bunny Suicides Feb 11 12:14:07 they have a conteporary operating system? Feb 11 12:14:09 meego investment is cut by 3 Feb 11 12:14:14 or so Feb 11 12:14:17 more than meego/ maemo/ symbian? Feb 11 12:14:23 S3 is contemporay Feb 11 12:14:25 bzhb, meego 2 million, MS fees 100 million ? Feb 11 12:14:30 ;-p Feb 11 12:14:37 *sarcasm* Feb 11 12:14:44 bzhb: that is what in slide 32? Feb 11 12:14:54 yes Feb 11 12:15:07 by critical he means free ride Feb 11 12:15:14 it says its illustrative though Feb 11 12:15:19 what is? Feb 11 12:15:26 Id love it now, if Motorola or another manufacturer, would now say, ok, we will support meego Feb 11 12:15:27 rofl Feb 11 12:15:33 LinuxCode: or LG! Feb 11 12:15:41 I dont care which one Feb 11 12:15:51 lg would be nice. Feb 11 12:15:51 Id just like to see a face slap Feb 11 12:15:58 maybe samsung can ditch bada for meego Feb 11 12:16:01 their Approximate Revenue slide is funny Feb 11 12:16:02 i want rotten fruit thrown at them Feb 11 12:16:12 anybody looking at the press conference ? Feb 11 12:16:16 what great bullshit Feb 11 12:16:22 u19809: agreed Feb 11 12:16:28 is this channel gonna be full of LG users in a few months? Feb 11 12:16:35 u19809: truth spoke. Bullshit. Feb 11 12:16:40 only time will tell Feb 11 12:16:53 that's just stupid Feb 11 12:16:56 "Will it succeed?" haha Feb 11 12:16:59 he wants to create an ecosystem with a complete looser ??? Feb 11 12:17:01 haaahaha Feb 11 12:17:02 Hold on, he's just bet his companies future on something that may not succeed???? Feb 11 12:17:02 somebody re-post the link please Feb 11 12:17:03 I call utter failure Feb 11 12:17:12 LinuxCode: http://www-waa-akam.thomson-webcast.net/uk/dispatching/?event_id=2dd7139793f7dc9f43109186244f14dc&portal_id=369401748e8249f142a700d8098a3473 Feb 11 12:17:14 people should buy products that suite their needs Feb 11 12:17:15 ta Feb 11 12:17:20 sorry, should have used tinyurl Feb 11 12:17:26 This argument is paper thin... Feb 11 12:17:56 wait Feb 11 12:18:09 did anyone see the slide "Mobile Devices Net Sales Mix Feb 11 12:18:14 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-notifies-developers-that-qt-is-out-for-windows-phone-devel/ Feb 11 12:18:26 * LinuxCode watches share price Feb 11 12:18:29 MeeGo net sales not illustrated Feb 11 12:18:34 that is what that slide says Feb 11 12:18:51 erstazi: have there *been* any meego sales? Feb 11 12:18:53 What MeeGo sales? Feb 11 12:18:59 ccooke: of course not, yet Feb 11 12:19:04 they never even gave it a chance Feb 11 12:19:08 he claims that microsoft is taking critical bets ... what the f*K with 80% of revenue from windows and office ... what is the bet here ? Feb 11 12:19:09 "Focus Our “Direct R&D” Investment" slide too Feb 11 12:19:16 lol Feb 11 12:19:19 looks like they are cutting R&D by 66% Feb 11 12:19:20 anybody know what the stocks are doing ? Feb 11 12:19:34 How do Nokia plan to compete directly on price and time to market with Huwai and HTC? Feb 11 12:19:34 A next generation operating system... it's Windows CE with a new lick of pain!!! Feb 11 12:19:44 s/pain/paint/ Feb 11 12:19:44 share price is stubbornly hovering at -9.1x% Feb 11 12:19:45 Milhouse meant: A next generation operating system... it's Windows CE with a new lick of paint!!! Feb 11 12:19:53 Milhouse: don't forget the Walled Garden approach! Feb 11 12:20:08 Nokia is dead to me... :) Feb 11 12:20:22 milhouse : yep think so to Feb 11 12:20:27 all he keeps talking about is the US market lol Feb 11 12:20:29 the problem is, Nokia make good handsets. I'd have been dissapointed if they'd gone for android, say, but that would at least have been *interesting*... Feb 11 12:20:30 * erstazi bets on how many nokia employees leave this channel Feb 11 12:20:44 LinuxCode : and also advertising Feb 11 12:20:53 Windows phone blue squares look like original liqbase :) Feb 11 12:20:54 all Feb 11 12:21:01 again Feb 11 12:21:03 erstazi: i'm personally hoping some people will stay cos of that they like meego, though Feb 11 12:21:05 this is good for microsoft... Feb 11 12:21:11 Stskeeps: agreed Feb 11 12:21:13 and only microsoft Feb 11 12:21:20 ruskie: just was going to type that Feb 11 12:21:24 MeeGo is already part of both KDE and Gnome. Someone will make products based on "MeeGo" Feb 11 12:21:28 the only "good" that nokia gets from this deal is the oppurtunity to reduce head count Feb 11 12:21:38 fendel, we put some meego stuff into fedora Feb 11 12:22:13 who here wants blood? Feb 11 12:22:16 i hope nokia take an absolute caning when the us markets open Feb 11 12:22:19 Anyone know if any other mobile vendors going for MeeGo? Feb 11 12:22:20 QML on WeTab is superbly smooth btw :) Feb 11 12:22:32 LinuxCode: Sure.. Empathy, telepathy, Sofia-SIP, and so on. Nokia sponsored projects for Maemo and MeeGo Feb 11 12:22:33 hey dazo Feb 11 12:22:34 * dazo is so going to ditch Nokia Feb 11 12:22:38 CosmoHill: hey Feb 11 12:22:46 lbt, whats the simplest path to send commits to OBS - without actually needing OBS. ie, developing and using git for qt apps Feb 11 12:22:47 dazo: can I has it plz :) Feb 11 12:22:51 * dazo is grumpy on the latest news! Very grumpy! Feb 11 12:23:00 can a person just point OBS at that git and have it in community? Feb 11 12:23:12 CosmoHill: heh .... the N900 is still bought, but never Nokia again Feb 11 12:23:18 lcuk: mmm Feb 11 12:23:19 dazo: thats understandable. you invested time, money, and effort into a platform (I am assuming N900). Feb 11 12:23:32 I broke the keypad on my nokia yesterday Feb 11 12:23:34 yeah Feb 11 12:23:34 lbt, for instance, venemo's puzzle-master, its qt based Feb 11 12:23:34 lcuk: so that's kinda what BOSS is about Feb 11 12:23:43 yeah Feb 11 12:23:46 automation of code->image Feb 11 12:23:51 CosmoHill: you can use the on-screen keyboard but it is a pain sometimes Feb 11 12:24:06 my phone is a non-touch screen Feb 11 12:24:12 how mnay appz are in WP7 app store ? Feb 11 12:24:13 oh never mind Feb 11 12:24:14 triggering event (a commit to git) causes a QA process which ultimately builds an image Feb 11 12:24:15 lol Feb 11 12:24:19 and it's the "answer" button Feb 11 12:24:21 maybe CosmoHill can develop a newer and better on-screen keyboard ... after all, it's all software Feb 11 12:24:29 but it's deliberately not system to system Feb 11 12:24:33 LinuxCode: 8 THOUSAND were added in a day!!!1 (thats what that guy said in the press video) Feb 11 12:24:41 lol Feb 11 12:24:43 what if I want to do something between commit and build ? Feb 11 12:24:52 dazo: I have heard of some sound reconition software that uses your phone's microphone to work out where on the screen to tapped Feb 11 12:24:53 if it's git 2 obs then "tough" Feb 11 12:24:56 windows phone ecosystem... Feb 11 12:25:04 * LinuxCode spreads some dioxin Feb 11 12:25:06 CosmoHill: cool! Feb 11 12:25:08 lcuk: by having a hub we have a bottleneck and flexibility Feb 11 12:25:12 haha not only is the ecosystem hopeless, nokia also have to compete with the other manufacturers that are on a roll Feb 11 12:25:22 as long as the bottleneck is wide enough ... we're fine Feb 11 12:25:32 and we've tested a million concurrent commits ... Feb 11 12:25:40 lbt, awesome Feb 11 12:25:50 funny thing is, he wants to compete with android and apple Feb 11 12:25:50 mece: from the sounds of it, nokia is competing with nokia Feb 11 12:25:56 CosmoHill: haha Feb 11 12:26:06 * lcuk wants to offer programs that work Feb 11 12:26:07 but, where are the 70,000 developers that will build apps for their crap ? Feb 11 12:26:21 where are the free development systems for that? Feb 11 12:26:23 so ... the answer is BOSS ... and I'm on the CI delivery this sprint Feb 11 12:26:27 LinuxCode: they are probably counting the developers for Windows 7 and not windows phone 7. Feb 11 12:26:27 (was) Feb 11 12:26:33 LinuxCode: well if lcuk is on developer, that gives you 10 when his internet craps out Feb 11 12:26:35 lbt, good stuff. Feb 11 12:26:45 CosmoHill, lol Feb 11 12:26:50 reading the slides it appears Elop is planning to drop also symbian Feb 11 12:26:53 LinuxCode, I can convert each sketch I make into an app Feb 11 12:26:55 * LinuxCode calls Richard Branson Feb 11 12:26:57 OH MY GOD!! Feb 11 12:26:58 :O Feb 11 12:27:01 NOOOOOO Feb 11 12:27:07 it just gets worse and worse! Feb 11 12:27:08 do i hear right if he keeps on pressing that it is not 'a standard OEM agreement' ? He wants to make us believe that they will control windows / Microsoft ? That would be a first Feb 11 12:27:10 "oi, pull the plug from lcuk 's inet!" Feb 11 12:27:10 just last week Feb 11 12:27:10 mece: which dainty? Feb 11 12:27:11 Yep, WinCE has finally killed off Symbian Feb 11 12:27:12 pentalus: right but supposedly leave R&D for Meego while dropping Symbian Feb 11 12:27:17 I turned my entire UI into handwritten Feb 11 12:27:24 *religion Feb 11 12:27:27 so now, a couple of years ago, I sketched a clock Feb 11 12:27:31 now, its a fully working clock Feb 11 12:27:34 well he said "we could change ui yadda yadda, but we really can't" Feb 11 12:27:36 but looks just like my sketch :) Feb 11 12:27:36 Milhouse, lol Feb 11 12:28:04 I'm expecting Symbian sales to drop off a cliff Feb 11 12:28:25 http://view.samurajdata.se/psview.php?id=b15171a6&page=32 Feb 11 12:28:44 meego is still there though :) Feb 11 12:28:52 mece: yeah, in the R&D Feb 11 12:28:56 hehehe Feb 11 12:28:58 errrm, he thinks WP will become cheaper Feb 11 12:29:00 mece: they could drop it (; Feb 11 12:29:03 lol Feb 11 12:29:04 LinuxCode: haha exactly Feb 11 12:29:07 I do not think so Feb 11 12:29:16 MS, yeah sure, we will make less profit Feb 11 12:29:22 Man... Symbian outsells all other smartphone devices, and he's killing it off? Feb 11 12:29:31 Milhouse: exactly Feb 11 12:29:34 until now I have not heard anything i reall agree with Feb 11 12:29:36 thats what we do, we run a benevolent fund for mobile phone businesses Feb 11 12:29:36 To be replaced by something that barely sells Feb 11 12:29:37 I fear they are doing with meego the same thing they did with maemo... ship one device and then drop it Feb 11 12:29:38 :( Feb 11 12:29:40 Milhouse: it is the most popular smartphone OS Feb 11 12:29:46 MeeGo please dont go away. Feb 11 12:29:56 lolloo, it wont Feb 11 12:30:14 lolloo: let me just reiterate my earlier point here... MeeGo != Nokia Feb 11 12:30:17 open source is like a bad comment, once it's out there it's out there Feb 11 12:30:22 If the money from Nokia and Intel dry up, meego won't survive. If the money from Nokia dries up but Intel remains commited, meego will survive as Intel do a lot of work. Focus from intel will probably ship to a tablet ux Feb 11 12:30:26 CosmoHill, not really Feb 11 12:30:26 aha Feb 11 12:30:39 but we do need to find a way for community participation to be rewarded Feb 11 12:30:43 This guy is going to gut Nokia and leave it a broken wreck of a company, then p'ss off somewhere in a few years... by then i won't care of course, but that's what is going to happen. Feb 11 12:30:44 MeeGo is a distro. We have a lot of distros. The most important is the components, the focus, the contributors, and the end products Feb 11 12:30:54 nokia+intel+MS Feb 11 12:30:57 =? Feb 11 12:31:41 lolloo: the Nokia Notbook? Feb 11 12:31:43 what is he blabbing about now ? Feb 11 12:31:44 notebook* Feb 11 12:31:49 slaine: right Feb 11 12:31:58 haha Feb 11 12:32:02 slaine: "MeeGo" is a core part of Gnome and KDE: telepathy, empathy, qt, sofia-sip, and so on.. Nokia has sponsored core projects on both KDE (meego) and Gnome (maemo) Feb 11 12:32:06 Milhouse: I care. Feb 11 12:32:15 I care too. Feb 11 12:32:20 blabbing about the good stuff Nokia does on their low end devices, that will presumably be running WP7 at some point... yeah right. Feb 11 12:32:32 talking about locations in this world, that buy second hand mobile hand sets for cheap Feb 11 12:32:39 thats what he is taling about Feb 11 12:32:45 lolloo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booklet_3G_netbook Feb 11 12:32:52 oooh Feb 11 12:32:56 charging them money to use their phone for banking Feb 11 12:32:58 wtf? Feb 11 12:32:59 lol Feb 11 12:33:02 when do they say that? Feb 11 12:33:07 (and by they I mean we) Feb 11 12:33:13 I dont recall African farmers earning 30k a year Feb 11 12:33:29 sivan/mece: I did care, but have had enough of this mad company and their constantly changing strategy while never moving forward. this just continues that trend. Feb 11 12:33:50 I missed most of what's going on though. Have nokia decided to drop R&D in MeeGo, R&D in Symbian or is it general R&D Feb 11 12:33:52 The work done on MeeGo has already helped Fedora, Red Hat, Ubuntu, Debian, Suse, Mandriva, and so on. Feb 11 12:34:01 if anyone is interested, there is a video of meego running on the nokia booklet on youtube Feb 11 12:34:01 http://bit.ly/hV5bt8 << Let me Summarize Nokia's stock Feb 11 12:34:15 he just said they would provide a meego smartphone this year as a future experimentation platform Feb 11 12:34:29 i like this part of his speech :) Feb 11 12:34:34 meee toooo Feb 11 12:34:42 so we just have to wait a bit more ... Feb 11 12:34:44 nokwintel... Feb 11 12:34:55 * notmart hopes meego resists in some form Feb 11 12:35:03 u19809: it seems it s use the word "device" not smartphone Feb 11 12:35:04 good luck guys, and hugs :) Feb 11 12:35:05 Milhouse: I don't know what to say dude. We need to petition to the board that a whole ecosystem based on specific platform for years cannot just change in one day Feb 11 12:35:10 notmart: you dream Feb 11 12:35:17 damn lag Feb 11 12:35:22 my cast was cut Feb 11 12:35:27 what did he say about meego engineers? Feb 11 12:35:34 vgrade: do you think your image would run on the Nokia Booklet? Feb 11 12:35:34 after that they will plan the future? Feb 11 12:35:41 khertan : true but since it will relate to the future I would presume it has to do with mobile phoning ... Feb 11 12:35:43 slaine: No, but they have announced they will cut drastically. "10:40AM There will be "significant changes" to R&D spending. Nokia will be cutting its research and development costs, but Elop claims it will increase productivity." Feb 11 12:35:51 sivan : nothing Feb 11 12:36:01 slaine: http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/live-from-nokias-capital-markets-day/ Feb 11 12:36:01 sivan maybe they will do a .net stage Feb 11 12:36:14 unless Elop is forced to step down, nokia is gone... Feb 11 12:36:16 niala1, everyting will be silverlight Feb 11 12:36:26 wp will not have flash Feb 11 12:36:28 lol Feb 11 12:36:42 let's face it, nokia hardware is over-rated too. Feb 11 12:36:46 and you wont be able to install anything , apart from through the MS app store Feb 11 12:36:48 angasule: Nokia will not be gone, but it might become another Dell or HTC.. Feb 11 12:36:48 good thing apple forced youtube to move to HTML5 Feb 11 12:36:57 2 weeks later: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/02/nokia-cmd0096.jpg Feb 11 12:37:00 fendel: that is gone for all intents and purposes :-) Feb 11 12:37:08 CosmoHill, I dont think they forced them too Feb 11 12:37:19 Milhouse: True. How can Nokia compete with Huawei and HTC on speed to market and price only? Feb 11 12:37:21 I would imagine html5 is less resource hungry Feb 11 12:37:22 fendel: that's not quiet the point I was making. They're spending most of their money on developing Qt and the frameworks to provide a tier-1 SDK for developers and creating a reference UX, a custom product UX('s) and applications on top of that. That's all expenses that Nokia and Intel are spending on. As well some on tailoring core os. But the benefits you mentioned are inherint in open source, you contribute and help others and at the same time reap the Feb 11 12:37:22 benefits of contributions made by others. Feb 11 12:37:24 angasule, :) true Feb 11 12:37:46 lol Feb 11 12:37:54 he want sto bring in outsourced people ? Feb 11 12:38:14 "Elop studied computer engineering and management at McMaster University" How does one study both computer engineering and management at the same time? heh Feb 11 12:38:30 computer damagement Feb 11 12:38:36 angasule: easy - i have a mix in computer science and science history Feb 11 12:38:36 :P Feb 11 12:38:38 lol Feb 11 12:38:46 angasule: he studied how people sit at a computer and program and how to properly crack a whip. Feb 11 12:38:52 not being good at either Feb 11 12:38:54 hehe Feb 11 12:39:16 he speaks a lot of pointy hair buzzwords. Feb 11 12:39:17 Nokia seriously under estimate the Koreans, the Taiwanese, and the Chinese if they believe Nokia can continue to sell high margin OEM phones to the masses Feb 11 12:39:22 meh, I'm gonna be late for work, and unfortunately this talk sounds all too familiar :-) Feb 11 12:39:38 He'll not be the CEO Feb 11 12:39:39 "if thinks go well today, I will be the CEO" Feb 11 12:39:40 hah Feb 11 12:39:44 I hope Feb 11 12:39:45 s/thinks/things/ Feb 11 12:39:59 I would not want her job Feb 11 12:40:05 "if thinks go hell today, I will be the CEO" Feb 11 12:40:06 buzzwords are evil Feb 11 12:40:11 she will be blamd if it goes wrong Feb 11 12:40:25 fendel: i hope asian move on meego. that will be funny Feb 11 12:40:28 could Feb 11 12:40:29 they also backfire horribly when someone understands them and points out you're an idiot Feb 11 12:40:37 You code in Symbian, but need to change? What do you do, code for Android/iOS, or choose Windows Phone? Hmm... Feb 11 12:40:57 QT Feb 11 12:41:11 does android support qt ? Feb 11 12:41:17 or is there a port ? Feb 11 12:41:30 You have backed Nokia for the last 10 years, been shat on numerous times, what do you do? Continune to support Nokia or choose someone with a long-term roadmap? Feb 11 12:41:32 there android-lighthouse Feb 11 12:41:36 if Android, iOS, WP7 and Symbian all supported Qt, it would be a lot easier to make cross platform apps Feb 11 12:41:40 but nohting steady at the moment Feb 11 12:41:46 LinuxCode, it's bbeing worked on afaik Feb 11 12:41:46 in fact.... why we need other phone than n900 ? Feb 11 12:41:55 niala1: lol Feb 11 12:41:57 niala1: cos it's a small brick? Feb 11 12:41:59 so I guess, thats where the devs will go Feb 11 12:42:01 CosmoHill: and if pigs could fly, I would get to work in time Feb 11 12:42:08 if they are in it for the money Feb 11 12:42:14 CosmoHill: good for muscles Feb 11 12:42:17 angasule: pigs have flown Feb 11 12:42:28 sure it was with the use of a catapalt Feb 11 12:42:28 CosmoHill: self-powered or it doesn't count! Feb 11 12:42:28 hmm, cross platform, write in flash ... .or HTML5 Feb 11 12:42:30 Gravøl.. A nice day for a beer Feb 11 12:42:39 He's going to be busy, the bloke running HR. Feb 11 12:43:05 Milhouse: if he was smart he'd have a duvet day Feb 11 12:43:24 Patents: So Nokia just whoring itself out... Feb 11 12:43:25 and I told my ex gf to get a C7 which is amazing but... Feb 11 12:43:41 and -now- they replace NAM sales organisation Feb 11 12:43:42 ex Feb 11 12:43:44 wow Feb 11 12:44:14 how is wp7 bring speed? Feb 11 12:44:33 get more ex Feb 11 12:44:37 Will Nokia be making Microsoft keyboards and mice next, using all that manufacturing capacity they have that won't be making phones... Feb 11 12:44:38 sivan: slow speed! it gives you time to think about why you bought a windows phone Feb 11 12:44:46 angasule: LOL Feb 11 12:44:50 http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2009/aug09/08-12pixipr.mspx Feb 11 12:44:52 hahahahh Feb 11 12:44:54 ohh look at that pic Feb 11 12:45:02 its the same guy who is CEO now! Feb 11 12:45:05 again creating a different industry Feb 11 12:45:07 sivan: if you rage and throw the phone, the acceleromiter will register speed Feb 11 12:45:08 the new nokia : MS bitch & patent troll bitch Feb 11 12:45:24 CosmoHill: the C7 ? Feb 11 12:45:26 Elop. Fsck off. Now. Feb 11 12:45:32 LinuxCode: loool Feb 11 12:45:44 he learned to pronounc! Feb 11 12:45:48 dear Feb 11 12:45:51 oh dear Feb 11 12:45:55 sivan, any phone you throw :) Feb 11 12:46:02 * CosmoHill throws his phone at people and walls Feb 11 12:46:17 I have nothing agains Elop, he's not a bad guy, but where will be the speed in development? Feb 11 12:46:27 I forsee WP7 plan is dropped in about 4 months Feb 11 12:46:31 Has either Nokia or Intel said anything (at all) to the MeeGo community yet? Feb 11 12:46:38 dwd: none Feb 11 12:46:41 we are vaiting Feb 11 12:46:42 sivan: I think this change in strategy is different Feb 11 12:46:59 sivan: This'll stick, unfortunately for us Feb 11 12:47:12 jnwi: even if the OS fails? Feb 11 12:47:15 I've been here the whole time. Feb 11 12:47:31 DawnFoster: kinda assuming to watch isn't it? Feb 11 12:47:32 sivan: The OS was never the problem Feb 11 12:47:33 * Stskeeps offers DawnFoster tea and thanks for being around Feb 11 12:47:36 As I said earlier, Intel is continuing with MeeGo. Feb 11 12:47:37 DawnFoster, where is your cheque book ? Feb 11 12:47:39 ;-} Feb 11 12:47:49 DawnFoster: I could hug you Feb 11 12:47:52 ohh there it is....thank you Feb 11 12:48:12 I contributed, by buying a i7 2600 Feb 11 12:48:20 wow Feb 11 12:48:21 I guess the real question is whether Nokia will continue to develop (decent) hardware for running MeeGo on. Feb 11 12:48:23 sivan: The big problem was that their internal processes were consistently too slow Feb 11 12:48:23 stupid question: a x86 phone can exist ? Feb 11 12:48:31 sure Feb 11 12:48:32 LinuxCode, any overclock? Feb 11 12:48:33 Even though Nokia has kept Meego supposedly on the R&D budget, I am doubtful of their intentions now. Feb 11 12:48:35 DawnFoster: will intel have official statement to the community who has been putting its blood and sweat at meego sometime soon? :) Feb 11 12:48:44 lolloo, 2600 doesnt overclock Feb 11 12:48:45 niala1: not a good one Feb 11 12:48:46 niala1, I'm told that Atom isn't *quite* power efficient enough for phones yet. Feb 11 12:49:02 seen many sights run 4.3 Ghz on fan Feb 11 12:49:02 :( Feb 11 12:49:08 sites* Feb 11 12:49:16 sivan: not sure exactly what the plans are for any official announcement Feb 11 12:49:19 dwd: from what I have known, Atom is a byproduct from Intel's agreement with ARM. Feb 11 12:49:21 yeah, intel needs to get a shift on with atoms, or start making arm based processors Feb 11 12:49:22 oh crap, I have 10 mins to be at uni Feb 11 12:49:26 jnwi: so why just make them quicker? gain more focus? reduce features for linux based phone and deliver an amazing experience? Feb 11 12:49:30 most of the US is still asleep - not quite 5am here Feb 11 12:49:31 jnwi: *why not Feb 11 12:49:33 ah, well, off to the pixel mines, cheers people, at least Mubarak seems to be going down! :-) Feb 11 12:49:38 I've been up watching since 2am :) Feb 11 12:49:42 sivan: Probably because it wasn't working Feb 11 12:49:43 LinuxCode, Intel have made ARM processors before. Still do, I think. Feb 11 12:49:44 DawnFoster: oh :_) Feb 11 12:49:54 dwd: ^ Feb 11 12:50:07 sivan: Let me whore out my blog instead of rewriting my position here ;) http://cool900.blogspot.com/2011/02/meego-saved-but-at-what-cost.html Feb 11 12:51:04 jnwi: but write once run everywhere? Feb 11 12:51:15 sivan: huh? Feb 11 12:51:32 It's still "planned partnership" Feb 11 12:51:42 In the webcast Feb 11 12:51:49 Frye: yes, thanks for reminding although cutbacks are planned so this is half way committed Feb 11 12:51:49 I like arm, but Id really love a x86_64 architecture, to make it easier for us Feb 11 12:51:53 Yeah, they haven't managed to finish the contract yet Feb 11 12:51:57 it was said earlier Feb 11 12:52:01 jnwi: good Feb 11 12:52:08 if it were power efficient enough Feb 11 12:52:09 It is very close to committed I'm afraid Feb 11 12:52:19 royalty payments to microsoft.... hahahahahhahahahaha Feb 11 12:52:36 LinuxCode, Yes, especially if there were an x86 ecosystem taking us through to the desktop. Feb 11 12:52:38 they said royalty payments?.. Feb 11 12:52:39 Milhouse: sweet mother of god! Feb 11 12:52:41 investment in OS' ? Feb 11 12:52:43 Stskeeps: THEY DID! Feb 11 12:52:45 what OS' ? Feb 11 12:52:49 WHAT OS??? Feb 11 12:52:53 they are ditching all the ones they were involved in Feb 11 12:52:53 GUESS! Feb 11 12:53:14 I think I figured all this out now Feb 11 12:53:25 this is a major cost cutting exercise Feb 11 12:53:26 ROYALTIE Feb 11 12:53:35 you ditch any r&d you do yourself Feb 11 12:53:37 LinuxCode: ONE THAT WILL be taught in books Feb 11 12:53:39 LinuxCOde : yes I agree ... they need cash Feb 11 12:53:40 and let MS do it Feb 11 12:53:42 LinuxCode: yep Feb 11 12:53:58 LinuxCode : all the rest is fuzz Feb 11 12:54:01 intel left windows adopt meego, nokia left his os and adopt windows.... who is stupid ? Feb 11 12:54:04 protest is in place, I guess Feb 11 12:54:04 with a good wad of wishful thinking, that WP will take off Feb 11 12:54:23 roylatie payments Feb 11 12:54:28 so, of curiousity: how many of you are still interested in contributing to MeeGo and making it -the- future platform? I know I am. Feb 11 12:54:29 DawnFoster: you read this? Feb 11 12:54:38 Stskeeps: I am. Feb 11 12:54:50 Stskeeps: me too :) Feb 11 12:54:55 i suppose intel will not have interrest in os (meego or not) for a long time Feb 11 12:55:02 Stskeeps: Sort of, but I want to know I'll have an actual device to use Feb 11 12:55:02 Stskeeps: how do we make EUs though? Feb 11 12:55:08 http://twitpic.com/3ymf82 Feb 11 12:55:11 Stskeeps: otherwise, I'll probably get a Palm Feb 11 12:55:21 still here :) still working on meego Feb 11 12:55:27 Stskeeps: even if it's around the N900 for the time being. Maybe we'll come up with something to attract Nokia back to sanity. Feb 11 12:55:33 DawnFoster: we have the conference as planned? Feb 11 12:55:42 alterego: yes Feb 11 12:55:50 * lcuk slides coffee over to DawnFoster Feb 11 12:55:59 alterego: we should prove them the community can make it better and make sure it surpasses WP7 Feb 11 12:56:05 Hey lcuk Feb 11 12:56:18 do you think meegoboy will pop up in a few hours when the US wakes up? Feb 11 12:56:24 i'm still interested in bringing 1.2 and 1.3 meego ARM to release, at least Feb 11 12:56:24 hehe Feb 11 12:56:29 CosmoHill: definitely :D Feb 11 12:56:30 * LinuxCode slides a piece of cake over to DawnFoster Feb 11 12:56:36 shame i like my n900 Feb 11 12:56:37 sivan: we still need to figure out what all of this means. should have more updates soon Feb 11 12:56:40 virtual bribery ftw! Feb 11 12:56:46 everyone agree to lie to him Feb 11 12:56:50 DawnFoster: please send to meego community and spare no info :) Feb 11 12:56:53 CosmoHill: it is already 07:55 here in the EST (US) Feb 11 12:56:55 I hae to get something to eat Feb 11 12:57:01 I think I got an ulcer today Feb 11 12:57:02 "intel has left meego and nokia have gone for the iOS" Feb 11 12:57:07 Stskeeps: maybe new meego nokia dev device around 1.3 release. Feb 11 12:57:21 sivan if wa can install a meego on phone like on netbook or pc yes meego will survire... otherwise.... Feb 11 12:57:25 DawnFoster: I definitely would like to hear from Intel as well. Thank you for being a community member. Feb 11 12:57:36 niala1: yes, I wrote about it a year ago on the mailing lists Feb 11 12:57:41 niala1: like meego on N8 Feb 11 12:57:56 poor guy Feb 11 12:57:58 sivan: it's not the end of the world :P Feb 11 12:58:08 I think we should push Nokia for certain info/things so that MeeGo on N900 can be done with minimal binary blobs and with maximum hardware support Feb 11 12:58:19 jonwil: agreed Feb 11 12:58:21 sivan: though I can think of a few scenarios where this could be the turning point of such an event :D Feb 11 12:58:23 There is no reason why GPS on MeeGo n900 needs to have blobs Feb 11 12:58:30 damn, wtf is nokia doing? Feb 11 12:58:32 Now he is talking about R&D for Meego Feb 11 12:58:38 jonwil: well, maybe there is :P Feb 11 12:58:45 alterego: well, for some of us who meego and the nokia is a way of life and standing onto the company while getting tossed android job offers constantly and refusing them.. Feb 11 12:58:58 well if Nokia documents the isi/phonet calls for GPS on N900 Feb 11 12:59:03 alterego: MeeGo's in for a lot less interest if one of the two founding partners is going to MS. Feb 11 12:59:04 sivan: I am in the same boat. Feb 11 12:59:07 alterego: pitching and idea to an investor while he laughs at you for targetting nokia platforms. Feb 11 12:59:09 "harvest mode" - really hate that phrase Feb 11 12:59:12 alterego: yes, I undersatand :) Feb 11 12:59:13 hah! told you so Feb 11 12:59:17 cost cutting excercise Feb 11 12:59:24 if Nokia documents those, a gpsd backend can be done Feb 11 12:59:46 One has a certain hate for Nokia these days. Feb 11 12:59:48 "meego to drive future disruptive innovations" - ie. microsoft to cherry pick the good ideas from meego for windows phone? Feb 11 12:59:50 First MeeGo last year, now this. Feb 11 13:00:08 GeneralAntilles: better go back to bed :) Feb 11 13:00:24 i wonder if we'll still have sudo gainroot in nokia+microsoft world... Feb 11 13:00:31 so he says this might be the next disruptive technolgy Feb 11 13:00:32 sivan: rolled over at 6:30, thought about it, then I picked up the phone. Feb 11 13:00:37 WP7 has no root at all Feb 11 13:00:42 Went to the park to take pictures of the birds instead of brooding. Feb 11 13:00:44 WP7 is totally locked down :( Feb 11 13:00:45 GeneralAntilles: and what the phone said? Feb 11 13:00:46 Gotta be at work in an hour. Feb 11 13:00:50 So basically symbian out WP7 in and meego like maemo ... Feb 11 13:00:52 WP& is just...rooted Feb 11 13:00:54 and i bought my n900 2 months ago :/ Feb 11 13:00:55 lol Feb 11 13:00:57 so it suddenlty feels to me the light point: Feb 11 13:01:00 Milhouse: personally i read that as not the worst thing in the world... It means we'll get to do much wilder things with MeeGo :) Feb 11 13:01:05 sivan: "GO DIE IN A HOLE YOU FOOLISH OPEN SOURCE SUPPORTER" Feb 11 13:01:07 Why are you so negative? We needed Nokia making money on Symbian to fund Maemo. Now they need to make money on something to fund MeeGo - let it be Windows... :) Microsoft is not the no1 evil anymore. ;-) Feb 11 13:01:14 GeneralAntilles: right Feb 11 13:01:20 GeneralAntilles: who was that? Feb 11 13:01:28 Milhouse: think iOS, walled garden Feb 11 13:01:30 GeneralAntilles: same here Feb 11 13:01:31 smoku: Totally :) Let's focus on it not being iOS ;) Feb 11 13:01:34 sivan: look at it this way, less pressure for us all. Feb 11 13:01:40 sivan: Nokia. Feb 11 13:01:43 alterego: exactly I was going to say Feb 11 13:01:45 smoku, That's true. Seems amazing that Google and Apple are now overtaking Microsoft in the Evil Race. :-) Feb 11 13:01:55 why do you people even bother? there is nothing to do for people like you and me in a µsoft+nokia world, so why do you even care... didge nokia get along with meego and try to get it running on !=Nokia-Hardware Feb 11 13:01:57 leinir: let's focus on it not being Android. Feb 11 13:02:00 so we get the time to develop meego to be the alien all in wonder platform, Feb 11 13:02:07 while wp7 is sold to investors and share hodlers Feb 11 13:02:11 company gains more breathing room Feb 11 13:02:15 GeneralAntilles: Hehe, and that, yes :) Feb 11 13:02:17 we finish meego to be an amazing Feb 11 13:02:18 sivan: this is a brilliant strategy that Nokia developed to ease the burden of maemo and meego enthusiastss and developers from the annoying EUs :) Feb 11 13:02:21 I'd just like to have a stupid phone I can use sometime in the next year or so. Feb 11 13:02:21 actually this is a good time for N900. cssu, meego, lots of good stuff coming Feb 11 13:02:24 and then in a year long we WIN Feb 11 13:02:26 That possibility is looking more and more remote. Feb 11 13:02:26 BIGTIME Feb 11 13:02:34 as for whether winmo7 is in any way useful, i've no idea, never got the opportunity to play with it :) Feb 11 13:02:34 sivan: the investors and shareholders spat the dummy at wp7 already today Feb 11 13:02:41 there wont be "selling it" Feb 11 13:02:45 chem|st: yes do, personaly i havent the science to do that :( Feb 11 13:02:47 elop leavs WP7 as a replacement for symbian Feb 11 13:02:49 and meego wins Feb 11 13:02:52 sivan: *nods* That's the spirit! :) Feb 11 13:03:02 it will be "trying to put out the fires" Feb 11 13:03:03 Mece_: cssu? Feb 11 13:03:07 WHo's coming wiht me to next meego con! ? :) Feb 11 13:03:13 community SSU Feb 11 13:03:29 Mece_: in the meanwhile Feb 11 13:03:30 Mece_: ah gotcha Feb 11 13:03:33 what android apps for n900 Feb 11 13:03:34 sivan, I suppose there *might* be someone else... Feb 11 13:03:36 "Two bicycle makers, from Dayton Ohio, one day decided to fly." Feb 11 13:03:38 That guy should die. Feb 11 13:03:45 whoa Feb 11 13:03:46 erstazi, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU Feb 11 13:03:50 Plus, of course, i'll say it again: MeeGo != Nokia. And Intel and all the other slightly enormous players are still steaming ahead, whatever happens with Nokia ;) Feb 11 13:03:50 leinir: thanks, I'm starting to see how this can fold nicely for us Feb 11 13:03:58 the nokia announcement really kicked in Feb 11 13:04:06 If intel was smart, they would ramp up meego, which feeds into other distributions Feb 11 13:04:09 Mece_: already there (; Feb 11 13:04:12 i propose to all of our app are selling in win7p or android and free for meego .... Feb 11 13:04:12 leinir: steaming ahead to . . . selling Atoms? :) Feb 11 13:04:13 Since he said : specific nokia experience on WP7, coudl that mean that Qt for WP7 and own GUI using the CE OS underlying ? Feb 11 13:04:13 617 people in this channel, that's a lot.. Feb 11 13:04:17 Frankly, who cares? Feb 11 13:04:18 allows manufatcuers to make chaper tablets, mobiles Feb 11 13:04:22 leinir: as if Elop understands open source has much more thickness but needs more relaxed working mode and research to become best show in town. Feb 11 13:04:24 sales go up Feb 11 13:04:31 costs go down Feb 11 13:04:33 half of the meego and qt-courses got cancelled already Feb 11 13:04:45 nice Feb 11 13:04:52 Jartza: where? Feb 11 13:04:54 sivan: Yeah :) Feb 11 13:05:01 LinuxCode, Intel just scraped meego for netbooks. My guess is they are going with Windows 8 for ARM. Feb 11 13:05:08 leinir: but that means, that Elop leaves to us the community to help him unpaid Feb 11 13:05:10 smoku, ? Feb 11 13:05:20 leinir: unless the finish ecosystem gather more invesors other than nokia to finish to work Feb 11 13:05:42 which I hope they do, as my contact said my interview today got cancelled due to personal reasons and not the events of today Feb 11 13:05:51 LinuxCode, see http://www.wafaa.eu/entry/smeegol-nogo-meego-gogo-1-56.html Feb 11 13:06:03 sivan: iin finland. I teach for three biggest training-companies in finland. Feb 11 13:06:12 smoku: Intel hasn't scrapped anything on netbooks Feb 11 13:06:19 sivan: *nods* Yeah :) Feb 11 13:06:24 sivan: sorry to hear that :( Feb 11 13:06:25 Jartza: ah I see :-( Feb 11 13:06:34 qt is not interesting anymore. Feb 11 13:06:35 Mece_ i dont understand cssu. is this a repository, a new application manager, a debug mode? what is is? Feb 11 13:06:43 smoku: wafaa only works on the Suse port of the netbook, he doesn't represent the MeeGo netbook team Feb 11 13:06:45 DawnFoster, thank you for clarifying Feb 11 13:06:53 why develop to symbian when nokia is going to kill it? Feb 11 13:06:57 jartza: sad, but no real surprise. the take home from today is that Qt has just been killed off. Feb 11 13:07:07 DawnFoster, quoted: "I spoke to several people directly and indirectly involved with MeeGo, especially the Netbook UX, about the lack of info on the Netbook UX. Each one of them said the same thing - MeeGo is putting the Netbook UX into Maintanence Mode, stopping any further development on it, and only providing bug fixes for major issues." Feb 11 13:07:12 Nokia self destruction 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... Feb 11 13:07:17 why develop to meego when nokia doesn't seem to be interested of it. Feb 11 13:07:33 because its an OSS platform Feb 11 13:07:34 And the future for MeeGo - even with Intels continued involvement - is highly suspect. Feb 11 13:07:37 DawnFoster: poor Jaffa I confused them yesterday :) Feb 11 13:07:39 meego isn't just for nokia Feb 11 13:07:43 and its future is not tied to any partner Feb 11 13:07:46 luck: it s not the only one ? Feb 11 13:07:49 we have GENEVI Feb 11 13:07:52 Jartza : depends if the apps use the Qt layer, the OS does not matter, really Feb 11 13:07:54 as well Feb 11 13:07:56 and tablets Feb 11 13:08:13 I just wonder why Intel in Haifa are trying to optimize qt for windows... Feb 11 13:08:18 lcuk: But they just lost their biggest supporter and getting products into the market. Feb 11 13:08:23 u19809: sure. but it seems that customers thought that qt==development for meego and symbian Feb 11 13:08:28 lcuk: and what wil happen to Qt ... this is the main question ... Feb 11 13:08:43 and when both factors are unknown, they are not interested Feb 11 13:08:53 * GAN900 eyes HP sidelong. Feb 11 13:09:05 * Khertan look at WebOS too Feb 11 13:09:06 Jartza : qt and symbian should remain (said the CFO) so I presume perhaps also for WP7 since it looks that they want the move symbian apps to WP7 Feb 11 13:09:17 lol, thats something I didnt get either Feb 11 13:09:21 Too bad I don't want a portrait-only device. Feb 11 13:09:24 why HP continues with webos Feb 11 13:09:39 u19809: at least in finland the message seemed to be "symbian will survive for a while" Feb 11 13:09:43 u19809: he said only .Net for WP7, no Qt ... Feb 11 13:09:45 Khertan: is WebOS open-source and "real" GNU/Linux, like Maemo? Feb 11 13:09:49 GAN900: yep ... this is what i think too ... and so i ll probably stay with maemo Feb 11 13:09:54 chouchoune: he did? Feb 11 13:09:59 Aranel: i really don't think it's very open source at all Feb 11 13:10:08 Aranel: real gnu/linu, not open source Feb 11 13:10:12 but companies don't want to train developers for platform that will exist "a while" Feb 11 13:10:12 Aranel: I don't think it is open source Feb 11 13:10:19 fuck off i have erase fucking slow win7 from my netbook and now win7 will enter to my phone!!! anyway!!!!!!!!! Feb 11 13:10:22 chouchoune : i did not hear that ... perhaps missed it ? Feb 11 13:10:31 how? Real GNU/Linux but not open-source? what parts of it is closed? Feb 11 13:10:34 niala1, language! Feb 11 13:10:43 u19809: it's written in the press documents Nokia released too Feb 11 13:10:49 wooohooo Mr Elop still writes on paper Feb 11 13:10:51 is this confirmed? -> http://noknok.tv/2011/02/11/nokia-n9-launch-meego-smartphone-set-for-shipping-this-year/ Feb 11 13:10:52 Aranel: the ui, and the framework ui Feb 11 13:10:53 Aranel: they use the Linux Kernel Feb 11 13:10:54 I hope his handwriting is clear Feb 11 13:10:54 Zune.... dear god. Feb 11 13:11:05 Aranel: the rest is closed source Feb 11 13:11:11 lets pray Feb 11 13:11:11 chouchoune : URL ? Feb 11 13:11:11 Aranel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebOS Feb 11 13:11:13 niala1: win7 != wp7 Feb 11 13:11:16 totally different os's Feb 11 13:11:17 niala1, does anyone force you to buy windows device? :> Feb 11 13:11:21 I just have to laugh at the people saying MeeGo will survive with Intel. Feb 11 13:11:30 Aranel: http://opensource.palm.com/2.0.0/index.html Feb 11 13:11:35 toadpole: well, they said they would be shipping /some/ meego device this year... of course, no idea what that device will be, or indeed when it'll happen :) Feb 11 13:11:42 GAN900: DawnFoster said so. Feb 11 13:11:42 different kernels, different base os Feb 11 13:11:45 Win7 == WinCE Feb 11 13:11:47 okay, it's another dead end for me if it's not oss. Feb 11 13:11:51 GAN900: meego is way more than just hadset Feb 11 13:11:54 s/Win7/WP7/ Feb 11 13:11:55 Milhouse meant: WP7 == WinCE Feb 11 13:11:56 what did you expected? 5 meego devices? Feb 11 13:11:56 did Dawn mention anything about the handset UX? Feb 11 13:12:09 they closing development on that too for the time being? Feb 11 13:12:11 toadpole: ask dawn Feb 11 13:12:12 only one is fair enough for a platform that brings out its first release Feb 11 13:12:28 u19809: http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_blog/archive/2011/02/11/open-letter-from-ceo-stephen-elop-nokia-and-ceo-steve-ballmer-microsoft.aspx Feb 11 13:12:29 handset is also important for intel Feb 11 13:12:32 DawnFoster, if you say so. Feb 11 13:12:38 Android is open source enough for me, sure it doesn't run X etc, but i think i'm with it Feb 11 13:12:39 Microsoft will continue to invest in the development of Windows Phone and cloud services so customers can do more with their phone, across their work and personal lives. Feb 11 13:12:40 toadpole: the support is already there for n900, for instance. why would that be thrown away? Feb 11 13:12:47 DawnFoster: sorry where are car/tv/phone ... sorry again... maybe elop is in true Feb 11 13:12:47 presumably Nokia involvement in MeeGo will continue, slowly (more slowly). Feb 11 13:13:03 Milhouse: less R&D, for sure. Feb 11 13:13:03 If nobody is shipping devices and no ecosystem is developing, it's all a bit academic. Feb 11 13:13:04 lol Feb 11 13:13:06 btw, won't Meego (as in meego of FSF, not "nokia meego team") make an announcement about this news? Feb 11 13:13:06 LjL: nothing prevents you from running X on an android phone Feb 11 13:13:10 GAN900: ehrm... It's hardly a secret that Intel've been trying to get into handsets for a while now... So yes, she does say so, and you'd be a silly bugger to not trust her on that statement ;) Feb 11 13:13:15 Goldman Sachs guy askingg a very good question Feb 11 13:13:19 -g Feb 11 13:13:20 In the slides there was still budget for meego after symbian is totally out Feb 11 13:13:27 R&D budget that is Feb 11 13:13:31 some examples: http://meego.com/about/public-support-meego Feb 11 13:13:34 most probably microsoft will just suck some money out from nokia phone division, and after a while buy the whole company Feb 11 13:13:35 So I would not say it's completely dead horse Feb 11 13:13:52 Frye: yep, something like 50% (or more) cut Feb 11 13:13:57 DawnFoster: that list is a joke, that is all ppl that counted on somebody drving meego Feb 11 13:14:09 av500: true, but it sort of becomes awkward. actually, i'd say that myself i'm content with the Android interface, and it even has some decent open-source software... i just understand the feelings of those who want "real" Linux, by that meaning X and its friends Feb 11 13:14:15 LinuxCode: Thinking the same as the rest of us, Nokia sales will plummet Feb 11 13:14:17 lol: "Novell Announces Support for MeeGo" Feb 11 13:14:18 The two bars were not in scale Feb 11 13:14:19 and Intel will continue to drive meego Feb 11 13:14:20 what Novell? Feb 11 13:14:25 Frye, I would expect a budget around the one Maemo had - just to keep it from dying ;-) Feb 11 13:14:26 so I cannot comment on the amounts Feb 11 13:14:33 although, meego could survive if some other player did a good phone with it Feb 11 13:14:36 Milhouse: pssh, nokia's stock is already plummeting (; Feb 11 13:14:40 or a good tablet Feb 11 13:14:47 http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/02/11/open-letter-from-ceo-stephen-elop-nokia-and-ceo-steve-ballmer-microsoft/#comment-144684978 Feb 11 13:14:50 hahah read the comments Feb 11 13:14:51 LjL: well, if "real linux" means X in 2011 I cant help you :) Feb 11 13:14:51 DawnFoster: MeeGo development will be continued with the same speed? by Nokia side. Feb 11 13:14:53 erstazi: started this morning, yeah :) Feb 11 13:15:19 tzorvas__: reduced some, but looking at the graph they presented, surprisingly little, considering :) Feb 11 13:15:20 tzorvas__: so it ll stay slow ... Feb 11 13:15:22 av500: let's say "personal computer-like" Linux Feb 11 13:15:33 "I trust Nokia" - he's having a larf! Feb 11 13:15:33 LjL: you want a PC in your phone? Feb 11 13:15:39 * Aranel checks the calendar, it's not april 1st :| Feb 11 13:15:40 * LjL rolls eyes Feb 11 13:15:45 DawnFoster: yes i know, i m interresting in meego since day one. i have installed it for my friend (even mp3!!) but i m very disapointed today. Feb 11 13:15:48 ( DawnFoster ): what do you think, would it be worth pursuing MeeGo at this point? or is it going to progress too slowly to depend on it? Feb 11 13:15:48 av500: i don't. read what i said again :P Feb 11 13:16:01 LjL: :) Feb 11 13:16:10 * openstandards really would like to see nokia using kde's plasma for meego Feb 11 13:16:12 Elop really believes people will continue to buy Nokia/WP7 through loyalty... Feb 11 13:16:22 they will Feb 11 13:16:25 av500: (although i'd certainly like a device like my trusty Psion 5, except a bit more up to date) Feb 11 13:16:28 i won't, thats for sure Feb 11 13:16:37 I'll stick to my n900 Feb 11 13:16:39 :D Feb 11 13:16:48 ( openstandards ): same here Feb 11 13:16:50 621 nicks in this channel will not make a dent in any phone sale Feb 11 13:17:02 av500: If a Symbian user is going to make a switch, there's plenty of better choices than WP7... sure I know some people have remained loyal to Nokia for years, but this might be a step too far. Feb 11 13:17:03 Milhouse: people want a nice look they don't care abour Os. thats the true... Feb 11 13:17:04 I smell that Nokia is being set up to be sold Feb 11 13:17:07 I love my n900 so much its my best friend or atleast i feel it is Feb 11 13:17:16 maybe time is right for another spinoff-company. take best of people who are willing to leave nokia and take the severance package, put up a smaller company and start making only meego-phones :) Feb 11 13:17:28 niala1: Nokia hardware is vastly over-rated - plenty of "nice" looking phones out there that don't have a Nokia logo. Feb 11 13:17:28 ( Milhouse ): yup, i've been using nokia phones for 15 years now Feb 11 13:17:30 Milhouse: same for meego Feb 11 13:17:38 nokia has created lot of spinoffs anyway during its history Feb 11 13:17:47 Jartza: makes me wonder if there's more innovation in that approach really Feb 11 13:18:15 leinir, the "Atom everywhere" story is not one I'm interested in. Feb 11 13:18:16 niala1: I care about what OS my phone uses actually and so do two others I know that have brought the n900 Feb 11 13:18:32 #meego is animated like in dublin conf ... Feb 11 13:18:42 Just to point this out - http://www.thelins.se/johan/blog/2011/02/meego-and-qt/ (and so's my current employer www.kogmbh.net ;) ) Feb 11 13:18:44 niala1: and they want apps on their phone ... and a fashion phone and os ... WP is far from having the best ecosystem, and microsoft name on an os isn't something fashion Feb 11 13:18:56 Stskeeps: at least the spinoff wouldn't need to do anything with symbian, and they wouldn't have a history of slow moving :) Feb 11 13:19:01 openstandards: me to i want a open phone. nokia or anything else Feb 11 13:19:13 niala1: to say _no_one cares would be stupid, sure the average joe doesn't expect how well it works Feb 11 13:19:18 Khertan: It's just about reducing R&D cost Feb 11 13:19:33 Osittain. Kuis? Feb 11 13:19:44 Sorry, wrong window. Feb 11 13:19:47 Intel's just as likely to pursue Android. Feb 11 13:19:57 They're not selling to you or me. Feb 11 13:20:07 since when does intel care about the OS? Feb 11 13:20:19 GAN900: Might as well, Google already target the same areas, and actually have product in the market and an ecosystem Feb 11 13:20:19 Milhouse: it s just about suicide Feb 11 13:20:20 can we remember something? WP7 phones comes out with standar HW inside them. Also Nokia wont have the need of building an ecosystem etc. Anyone that would like to buy a WP7 device would buy propably an Nokia device. anyone that was expected of a MeeGo device will have the option to buy a Nokia MeeGo device. but what about developers? what about meego? will nokia take advantage of WP7 so will sell devices easier and make her income b Feb 11 13:20:29 Khertan: Agreed. Feb 11 13:20:37 bäck Feb 11 13:20:39 i persist, people don't buy iphone, other compagny didn't copy 'store application system. Feb 11 13:20:45 GAN900: Intel are already involved in Android and ChromeOS iirc Feb 11 13:20:47 have they said anything interesting? Feb 11 13:20:48 jayabharath: he Feb 11 13:21:03 also i cant understand why MeeGo is open source now. it was and before this day and it will be open source until it will be dead. Feb 11 13:21:04 av500: Intel cares about OS - did you know that Intel is one of the top contributors to the Linux kernel (for example) Feb 11 13:21:05 av500: hello Feb 11 13:21:08 * jonwil wishes he could find someone who has contacts at nokia and can ask about possibility of n900 GPS isi/phonet info and some other stuff :P Feb 11 13:21:13 niala1: people buy iphone because it s fashion ... microsoft didn't sell wp7 because it s not Feb 11 13:21:24 DawnFoster: I know, IBM as well :) Feb 11 13:21:28 I'm surprised nokia don't push meego more now that android apps can be used on maemo Feb 11 13:21:32 Hey DawnFoster, you're either up early or very late Feb 11 13:21:36 DawnFoster: sure, but that does not favor any OS flavor, android, webos, meego Feb 11 13:21:46 all run linux kernel Feb 11 13:21:47 slaine: I got *up* at 2am :) Feb 11 13:21:48 wow, even shareholders are outraged Feb 11 13:21:55 tzorvas__: all fine and good - but to get anything to boot.. letalone WORK... lets say.. oooh.. have fully baked opengl drivers.. or any AT ALL... requires the vendor actualyl do it Feb 11 13:21:56 DawnFoster: dedication ;) Feb 11 13:21:56 lol Feb 11 13:21:59 LinuxCode: where? Feb 11 13:22:03 and make the product tailored around that os Feb 11 13:22:06 av500: Intel works with all of the major operating systems Feb 11 13:22:08 "as a shareholder and long term customer I can only say I am outraged. Steve Elop - your Companies Stock is just loosing around 12% in the European Stock exchanges. Feb 11 13:22:09 But you might not care as you probably still have more MSFT stock from your time there.... Feb 11 13:22:09 Nokia board how - how could you choose such a guy to run "our" company " Feb 11 13:22:13 to quote a comment Feb 11 13:22:14 in the arm/handset world.. this is the reality of it Feb 11 13:22:16 DawnFoster: I know that Feb 11 13:22:30 if the vendor is going to push 1 os and relegate another Feb 11 13:22:34 DawnFoster: but meego is not a major operating system Feb 11 13:22:36 what's the word on Qt for WP7? Feb 11 13:22:44 av500, yet Feb 11 13:22:45 slaine: either dedication or insanity :) Feb 11 13:22:48 the relgated one - even if open.. wont be of much use on anything except the device(s) it is supported on Feb 11 13:22:49 so if htere's apath tomigrate from symbian, that sounds like meego will be the future Feb 11 13:22:57 mece: non existant Feb 11 13:23:00 mece: no qt on qp7 from nok Feb 11 13:23:01 and only for the time being it will be reduced in investemnt so we work for free Feb 11 13:23:04 thats the word Feb 11 13:23:05 av500, and as I said earlier, meego stuff feeds into other distributions Feb 11 13:23:19 raster, slaine, but WHY????? Feb 11 13:23:20 av500: Intel has made a lot of contributions to MeeGo and will continue to contribute Feb 11 13:23:27 DawnFoster: ok Feb 11 13:23:37 LinuxCode: that's a non comment to be honest Feb 11 13:23:49 Qt for WP7 is the only positive thing I can imagine that would come out from this. Feb 11 13:23:50 mece: why is it this way? Feb 11 13:23:57 LinuxCode: yes, since meego is a distribution as well Feb 11 13:23:59 Other distros feed MeeGo, that's how all this oss stuff works Feb 11 13:24:01 DawnFoster: have intel the money to buy nokia and arm? :) joke Feb 11 13:24:06 raster, yes. I mean there's Qt for desktop windows Feb 11 13:24:06 oh why no qt for wp7 Feb 11 13:24:10 slaine, exactly Feb 11 13:24:10 duno thats what nok says Feb 11 13:24:13 This might be the Microsoft strategy: Get the WP7 into the market. Make a new version of XBox. Sell extra services to the Xbox trough WP7. WP7 becomes a hit trough games on Xbox Feb 11 13:24:15 link somewhere in the scrollback here Feb 11 13:24:30 openstandards, Linaro is using kde plasma for handset UI - you may wanna check it out :) Feb 11 13:24:31 but meego devs do a lot on netbooks, mobile devices as a whole Feb 11 13:24:38 we dont do much with that Feb 11 13:24:50 :( pfff i can't launch qtcreator today :( Feb 11 13:24:53 althought we have some dedicated arm people Feb 11 13:25:20 av500: the telepathy framework that maemo used for the n700...etc made it into gnome and is used by empathy, thats a basic example of some of the eco system around maemo which no doubt will be the same with meego Feb 11 13:25:30 low cost WP7 phones... you're still paying a royalty, dumb ass. Feb 11 13:25:36 (at Elop, btw) Feb 11 13:25:54 Milhouse, probably the r&d budegt end Feb 11 13:26:05 Robbing Peter to pay Paul... Feb 11 13:26:08 Milhouse: has anyone asked a question (in the Q/A session) about Meego yet? (I had to walk away for a few minutes) Feb 11 13:26:11 j #qt Feb 11 13:26:43 erstazi: none. Feb 11 13:27:01 erstazi: no - a guy from JP Morgan just asked if WP7 could reach to down to the very low end that is serviced by Symbian, or would another OS appear at the low end. Elop reckons Nokia have the skill/experience to take WP7 down to the very low end... I doubt it. Feb 11 13:27:08 mece: http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-notifies-developers-that-qt-is-out-for-windows-phone-devel/ Feb 11 13:27:20 Milhouse: agreed Feb 11 13:27:56 FUUUUUUUUU Feb 11 13:28:22 I know the guy asking from UBS... :) Feb 11 13:28:39 smoku got a link at all for me and what os is it using Feb 11 13:28:56 Milhouse, text him and tell him to ask more about MeeGo. :P Feb 11 13:29:03 http://planetkde.org/ Feb 11 13:29:38 How did we not see this coming when this joker was hired? Feb 11 13:29:55 GAN900: Does seem obvious, in hindsight. Feb 11 13:30:01 i knew this would happen Feb 11 13:30:03 Milhouse, indeed. Feb 11 13:30:03 The Joker =) Feb 11 13:30:05 well, when Rich Green was hired as Nokia CTO no-one saw Solaris coming... (which it didn't) Feb 11 13:30:13 I kinda did GAN900 however I hoped it wouldn't Feb 11 13:30:25 They're not going to bring in somebody new and stay the old course. Feb 11 13:30:27 openstandards, http://www.linaro.org/downloads/ - look at right sidebar Feb 11 13:30:32 what openstandards said. Feb 11 13:30:33 GAN900: Seems like a decision to win the US market, but lose market share everywhere else... and reduce costs at the expense of any control over your own platform destiny. Feb 11 13:30:33 GAN900: :-) It was nothing new. It happens from time to time: Hire a ex-Microsoft manager, get into close partnership, sell the leftovers after failure Feb 11 13:30:36 openstandards, self delusion, I guess. Feb 11 13:30:50 Milhouse, win the US market with WP7? Feb 11 13:30:54 RIP Nokia Feb 11 13:31:09 You know how long it's been since I've seen an MS mobile device here? Feb 11 13:31:18 fendel: +1 Feb 11 13:31:27 GAN900, I have never ever seen a single one Feb 11 13:31:34 fendel: it's called suicide-by-Microsoft. Happened to Palm... Feb 11 13:31:35 GAN900: not saying they will, but surely that's the intent Feb 11 13:31:41 iOS, Android, shitty LG/Samsung/whatever. Feb 11 13:31:48 GAN900, I recon WP7 got very good press in states Feb 11 13:31:53 If that's the intent, Elops an idiot. Feb 11 13:31:54 javispedro: And many others. SGI is also a famous story Feb 11 13:32:01 smoku, not really. Feb 11 13:32:22 Explains the cancellation of the X7 on AT&T and Neuron2 (T-Mobile) Feb 11 13:32:30 :( :( :( :( Feb 11 13:32:34 that is soo depressing Feb 11 13:32:35 GAN900, so, you say they need to throw some money at AT&T? :) Feb 11 13:32:37 hey Feb 11 13:32:38 so.. Feb 11 13:32:40 maybe Feb 11 13:32:50 we could hack meego onto the windows phones.. sounds like it :D Feb 11 13:32:55 booooooo Feb 11 13:33:08 * javispedro ponders what the EU comission has to say as they're chopping R&D jobs for an american company. Feb 11 13:33:15 * javispedro stocks even more popcorn Feb 11 13:33:21 GAN900: This is the move with the least risk for Elop. He can easily get a position in Microsoft or one of the other related companies if something happens. Feb 11 13:34:00 Safer for him than burning bridges.. Feb 11 13:34:00 tbh it sounds borderline corrupt Feb 11 13:34:22 another good question Feb 11 13:34:30 "throwing chairs in frustration" Feb 11 13:34:31 haha Feb 11 13:34:36 lol Feb 11 13:34:39 did MS pay Nokia Feb 11 13:34:41 fendel, I agree. Feb 11 13:34:46 :D Feb 11 13:34:51 great question Feb 11 13:34:58 ok he's avoiding the question Feb 11 13:35:04 Paul allen's yacht spent half of last summer in Finland Feb 11 13:35:05 haha Feb 11 13:35:07 mece: of course Feb 11 13:35:20 do you think he was making brown paper bag drops :) Feb 11 13:35:23 does his reponse make any sense to anyone ? Feb 11 13:35:28 hahaha Feb 11 13:35:36 LinuxCode: he skirted answering the question Feb 11 13:35:40 LinuxCode: more than likely MS has been lobbying for windows mobile to appear on a nokia handset Feb 11 13:35:42 javispedro: we shoudl write them Feb 11 13:35:45 Depending on how Nokia's investment in MeeGo comes out of this (assuming it's not heavily hit, I think Symbian is by far a larger cost) this might actually not be too bad for us. It may well mean that Nokia make enough profit and don't sink further in an Android dominated market. Meaning that we've not got a chance to catch our breath and make a killer meego handset ux Feb 11 13:35:46 "invest significantly"... paying the same for less. Feb 11 13:35:49 javispedro: EU can't afford to lose this jobs Feb 11 13:36:21 * georgem yawns at the idea of Windows handsets. Feb 11 13:36:23 slaine: yes, my thought Feb 11 13:36:30 Milhouse, yeah, with that R&D budget Feb 11 13:36:31 slaine: i think Nokia have lost the belief they can do this on their own Feb 11 13:36:33 slaine: however- doin that without money ? Feb 11 13:36:36 sivan: Who cares? EU can pay companies to stay, but nothing else Feb 11 13:36:37 what was the marketing budget ? Feb 11 13:36:49 * mece vomits at the idea of Windows handsets. Feb 11 13:36:57 Qt question finally! Feb 11 13:36:57 Qt! Feb 11 13:37:03 Oh, interesting question... Feb 11 13:37:05 something just jumped into my mind Feb 11 13:37:06 Indeed. Feb 11 13:37:08 Hi ppl Feb 11 13:37:09 sivan, that's what I meant by depending on the meego budget from nokia Feb 11 13:37:13 I have not seen a Nokia ad in years Feb 11 13:37:19 mece: +infinite Feb 11 13:37:37 quick poll: chances of Nokia handing Qt over to the Linux Foundation now? :) Feb 11 13:37:41 mece: hey now. you can get on and chat with all ur peeps on xbox live :P Feb 11 13:37:42 whereas I saw motorola, LG ads all with android Feb 11 13:37:42 <-- has seen nokia ads and ads for nokia devices... Feb 11 13:38:02 ruskie, which country ? Feb 11 13:38:08 slovenia Feb 11 13:38:10 The spring meego gathering might be a more sombre affair than the meegconf2010 :( Feb 11 13:38:15 sivan: The "American" internationals are even less Americans than Nokia is Finish. IBM fires people in Europe and USA on regular basis. They hire new ones in India, China, Brazil, and so on Feb 11 13:38:18 Is anyone aware if any moves have been made to approach Nokia about specs of W7 devices to run meego on? Feb 11 13:38:34 where can I watch the stream? is it still live? Feb 11 13:38:35 ohh god, he mentioned silverlight Feb 11 13:38:40 aeneby: dneary had a good point earlier. Perhaps Canonical will buy it off them ;) Feb 11 13:38:41 LinuxCode, what did you expct? Feb 11 13:38:44 Aranel, Go to Nokia.com anbd you can't miss it. Feb 11 13:38:46 'that meego device' Feb 11 13:38:49 hahaha, silverlight Feb 11 13:38:52 Qt - incredible how Nokia have managed to turn a winning play into a total fail Feb 11 13:38:53 LinuxCode: I can't remember any HTC ad either in Germany, but a lot of my friends use their android phones now... Feb 11 13:39:02 we will evaluate qt's role... Feb 11 13:39:03 Well, my thoughts go out to the Nokians who're likely to be canned now or in the near future. Feb 11 13:39:06 * GeneralAntilles is now off to work. Feb 11 13:39:07 Milhouse: totally agree Feb 11 13:39:15 Raim, because people know android Feb 11 13:39:17 GeneralAntilles: Seconded. Feb 11 13:39:28 "not as part of another broad smarpthone platform strategy, but as an opportunity to learn." Feb 11 13:39:35 I dunno. Qt has really been quite fail for a long time in my opinion. Feb 11 13:39:42 OMG THE IDIOCY Feb 11 13:39:44 means "go to hell" Feb 11 13:39:49 basically seen ads for 'droids, nokias sonys etc... etc... though primarily from cellcos around here Feb 11 13:39:51 "the bet we have placed" Feb 11 13:39:51 qt everywhere cancelled Feb 11 13:39:52 nice Feb 11 13:39:55 bing...lol Feb 11 13:39:55 now to look for a new phone for the future Feb 11 13:39:59 * LinuxCode face palms Feb 11 13:40:04 to be honest, the N97 is what killed Nokia Feb 11 13:40:07 sivan: apart from maybe on the low-end. Feb 11 13:40:12 bing aka ripped off google search Feb 11 13:40:13 LinuxCode: nope, "palm" is dead too :) Feb 11 13:40:21 SpeedEvil: but they will transitoin to WP Feb 11 13:40:25 SpeedEvil: did not he said that? Feb 11 13:40:26 av500, palm palmed off webos to HP ;) Feb 11 13:40:29 sivan: the very low end Feb 11 13:40:30 wtf is bing and why would anyone care about it? Feb 11 13:40:34 they should have put all their eggs into maemo/meego/whatever at that point Feb 11 13:40:34 * av500 face-HPs Feb 11 13:40:39 Who put Bill Gates hidden son on top of Nokia CEO :'( ? Feb 11 13:40:41 sivan: the 'bring internet to a billion people' phones. Feb 11 13:40:45 this is why I don't own a mobile phone :P... and no one likes to talk to me :( Feb 11 13:40:45 zr0, In as much as way too much R&D went into making a semi-competitive SYmbian phone. Feb 11 13:40:49 nokia phones will also now feature a windows button for all your smiting needs Feb 11 13:40:53 zr0++ Feb 11 13:40:58 georgem: The main failure of QT: It was never sold in to Red Hat, Fedora, and Ubuntu. The change to LGPL had potential, but it would be to through out GTK Feb 11 13:41:17 georgem: A united Linux desktop would be helpful also on other devices and handsets Feb 11 13:41:26 fendel, we have loads of QT stuff in fedora Feb 11 13:41:26 mece: bing is a google frontend ;) Feb 11 13:41:30 Mark Shuttleworth would love to see a Qt based GNOME desktop Feb 11 13:41:33 maybe canonical will adtop MeeGo and make it with dpkg ? :) Feb 11 13:41:38 fendel: used kde 4 recently? Feb 11 13:41:44 as much as i like nokia hardware, i will never buy a microsoft phone Feb 11 13:41:47 slaine: he's actually working on it , I think Feb 11 13:42:00 * JockeTF is disappoint. :( Feb 11 13:42:02 LinuxCode: And a lot of development of GTK related code.. Red Hat do not look very active in QT Feb 11 13:42:10 sivan, starting the process anyway with Unity going to Qt/Quick Feb 11 13:42:20 fendel, why would anyone want Qt is beyond me Feb 11 13:42:20 slaine: yes, surprised me but yes Feb 11 13:42:23 I ain't buying another nokia phone nor is my brother.... Feb 11 13:42:23 openstandards: That is my point. It is good, but it doesn't get focus Feb 11 13:42:24 and adding a dconf backend Feb 11 13:42:32 slaine: I wonder where he'll go now with the focus out of Qt Feb 11 13:42:35 but then I'm not a developer... I still consider GTK to be the better looking UI Feb 11 13:42:37 slaine: onwards SLiverslight Feb 11 13:42:47 sivan, He may buy Trolltech from Nokia ? Feb 11 13:42:51 ruskie: You prefer GTK? Feb 11 13:42:53 ruskie : are you serious GTK better than Qt ??? Feb 11 13:42:54 ruskie: ah, that explains it, GTK is horrible to develop on Feb 11 13:42:54 slaine: right Feb 11 13:43:02 "Please register below to access the webcast." Feb 11 13:43:05 fendel: I think Qt went wrong way back when they decided not to go full FOSS Feb 11 13:43:05 oh really.. Feb 11 13:43:08 ruskie: GTK is horrible to develop with Feb 11 13:43:09 Aranel: lie, it's ok Feb 11 13:43:10 ruskie: you should see my desktop.... its sexy and smart Feb 11 13:43:11 ruskie: The "look" is just a skin Feb 11 13:43:12 * sivan goes to look at Canonical's job offerings Feb 11 13:43:14 steve jobs is probably giggling right now Feb 11 13:43:19 fendel, look and feel Feb 11 13:43:19 Aranel: there are no checks, no confirmation email or anything Feb 11 13:43:24 aka user experience Feb 11 13:43:36 I love the gtk save/open dialog for one Feb 11 13:43:42 fendel, red hat favours foss Feb 11 13:43:42 Aranel: they are turning into microsoft minions, lying to them is ok Feb 11 13:43:43 yup, "I'm the F*** You from F*** You Inc." Feb 11 13:43:46 ruskie : really ? Feb 11 13:43:47 yeah, diving forward into a wall Feb 11 13:43:50 * ruskie puts a flame retarndad shield infront Feb 11 13:43:51 georgem: I disagree. The problem was that they did not go full FOSS. They could have been "the linux" of GUIs Feb 11 13:43:58 and when I say foss, I mean as open as possible Feb 11 13:44:01 u19809, yes really Feb 11 13:44:12 georgem: QT did have more in common with OpenOffice and MySQL. Closed, but open Feb 11 13:44:17 also qt for me looks way to much like windows... Feb 11 13:44:17 georgem: so GPL isn't free enough, it should be LGPL. they do that and now LGPL isn't free enough either, you want what? GPL again? Feb 11 13:44:18 crap, I'm finally watching the stream and it ends? Feb 11 13:44:29 lol Feb 11 13:44:31 angasulino: looks like. :| Feb 11 13:44:31 mece: diving from a burning platform into a cesspool Feb 11 13:44:32 who is that guy Feb 11 13:44:36 what happened to Qt btw? Feb 11 13:44:38 LOL that was weird Feb 11 13:44:38 hahaha this guy is funny Feb 11 13:44:39 ruskie : ok ... good for you Feb 11 13:44:39 the legal guy Feb 11 13:44:40 I hate the fact that microsoft will now use this as FUD against anyone considering using linux as a base Feb 11 13:44:42 the disclaimer guy Feb 11 13:44:43 LOL Feb 11 13:44:44 I wonder if he does stand up comedy too Feb 11 13:44:46 They intend to not talk about it. Feb 11 13:44:53 terms and conditions apply, read the small print, it was all a lie Feb 11 13:45:01 LinuxCode: haha I loved the guy at the end Feb 11 13:45:05 openstandards++ Feb 11 13:45:16 openstandards: Meego is still being given R&D, so it isn't all over Feb 11 13:45:21 I had never seen a legal guy do that before Feb 11 13:45:31 erstazi: that'll change very soon Feb 11 13:45:36 LOLOLOLOL Feb 11 13:45:43 angasulino, must be inherited from MS Feb 11 13:45:43 Chani: I thinking way back. I remember at one point they had a lot of momentum then messed around with their license and freaked a lot of people out. Feb 11 13:45:45 he almost choked Feb 11 13:45:55 It's because the deal is not on paper yet Feb 11 13:46:00 sivan: all lawyers choke,… on money Feb 11 13:46:03 US companies love lawyers Feb 11 13:46:05 So there could be an obstacle and the deal is off Feb 11 13:46:07 erstazi: HAHA Feb 11 13:46:08 One thing we have not talked about: What is a phone anyway? It is just a device that communicate with some defined protocols. Anyone can develop a phone as long as the standards are open Feb 11 13:46:12 Frye: no chance Feb 11 13:46:27 Frye: no chance Feb 11 13:46:34 Yeah it' a wet dream =) Feb 11 13:46:38 Frye: listen to what he said at the end of the webbcast Feb 11 13:46:39 fendel, My problem is that Nokia developed *nice* phones, and appeared to have an OS for them that seemed like it should be very good. Feb 11 13:46:46 stskeeps: ping Feb 11 13:46:47 I listened it Feb 11 13:46:50 fendel: that was tried with openmoko which never took off Feb 11 13:46:54 Phone hardware is mass produced standardized parts that anyone can buy Feb 11 13:46:58 jonwil: pong Feb 11 13:47:06 Stskeeps: TSG and Community office needs a meeting ASAP Feb 11 13:47:06 georgem: the problem with Qt's license is *really* old and no longer relevant, and it has only become more free with time, also, if Chani is who I think Chani is, Chani knows this :P Feb 11 13:47:10 fendel: we have seen with OpenMoko that it is possible, but also how hard it is Feb 11 13:47:11 openstandards: It was just too early. Feb 11 13:47:11 fendel: which are locked down Feb 11 13:47:12 There is this disclaimer on the press release too Feb 11 13:47:26 georgem: I think you're misremembering. they started proprietary, then went GPL, then when nokia bought them it went LGPL to make it spread faster Feb 11 13:47:28 that the terms are under negotiation Feb 11 13:47:41 and it is currently non-binding Feb 11 13:47:41 quim tweeted! Feb 11 13:47:47 openstandards: The finished devices are locked down. The parts are cheap and get cheaper buy the day Feb 11 13:47:59 mece: link ? Feb 11 13:48:06 Raim, the way I see it... openmoko was a death by commite approach Feb 11 13:48:17 @quimgil: Still digesting, but I guess "MeeGo becomes an open-source, mobile operating system project" = MeeGo/Harmattan-by-Nokia,including UX & apps Feb 11 13:48:20 fendel: since when have the parts been cheap? Feb 11 13:48:23 apparently he is shicked too. Feb 11 13:48:24 fendel: 3G parts are not available in small volumes. Feb 11 13:48:26 shocked Feb 11 13:48:29 Chani: I probably am misremembering. I'm just remembering back in about 98 when people were freaking about Qt in KDE. Too many beers since then I guess :) Feb 11 13:48:36 fendel: You cannot go out and buy 5000 3G chips. Feb 11 13:48:49 georgem: ah yes, that was a looong time ago :) Feb 11 13:48:58 fendel: the parts aren't cheap at all look at the gaming handset openpandora Feb 11 13:48:59 Chani: Seems like that might have hurt their momentum a bit Feb 11 13:49:04 georgem, I remember when it was just K, but yes. Feb 11 13:49:24 georgem: that was where they started, though; their momentum has gone nowhere but up Feb 11 13:49:27 georgem: the lgpl? Hehe, not exactly :) Look at the size of Qt DevDays if you need proof that it's going well ;) Feb 11 13:49:30 fendel: mass bulk is how they become cheap Feb 11 13:49:37 SpeedEvil: That is changing. 3G and 4G is becoming commodity. 5000 units are a very low number. Intel announce their prices in 10000 units? Feb 11 13:49:38 SpeedEvil: don't forget HSPA+ suport (; Feb 11 13:49:43 Raim, they should have made the device and a shiny OS... THEN release it... so that people actually buy it and can use it... then they can hack on it... then take best of breed from the first run... again lock it down... polish it off... release... Feb 11 13:49:53 man, yeah, devdays was huge... Feb 11 13:50:00 fendel: perhaps. I diddn't mean that they will sell you 10K Feb 11 13:50:15 fendel: Simply that 5K is no-hope. Feb 11 13:50:17 fendel: whos going to sell you the hardware? Feb 11 13:50:24 fendel, disagree. the manufacturers of these "mass produced standardized parts" won't talk to you unless you bring $1M to the table ;P Feb 11 13:50:25 openstandards: My point. Nokia was a player when the hardware was the difference. A mobile phone is becoming a PC and nothing more than a cheap pc Feb 11 13:50:25 KURWA!!! NIE!!! Feb 11 13:50:26 * Matan[M] wanna kill M$ Feb 11 13:50:29 yeah, Qt rocks more and more, I hope Ubuntu switches to a Qt based by default Feb 11 13:50:41 fendel: absolutely Feb 11 13:50:48 fendel: i Disagree completely Feb 11 13:50:50 Qt is definitely easier to develop with Feb 11 13:50:53 ruskie: the approach was to design both hardware and software with the community. it was more than just a open platform to hack on... Feb 11 13:50:57 good for me i suppose now i can buy a n900 not to expensive. i can convince the seller that is phone is dead Feb 11 13:51:05 niala1: heh Feb 11 13:51:10 Matan[M], a lot of people here do understand these Feb 11 13:51:14 Matan: TAK! Feb 11 13:51:37 The Freerunner was a brilliant piece of kit... only problem was someone decided to market the thing as a phone ;) Feb 11 13:51:41 well, we could still get a meego device, as long as that device is the n900.. Feb 11 13:51:45 fendel: have you looked at the price of a openpandora? Feb 11 13:51:58 Raim, well then any such approach is doomed to fail sadly... Feb 11 13:52:05 demo Feb 11 13:52:12 * Chani drags herself away from the computer Feb 11 13:52:27 angasulino: they anounced they would support Qt inside Unity Feb 11 13:52:27 openstandards: :-) I have followed the project. It might also been too early. They integrate communication in more and more devices. Feb 11 13:52:46 chouchoune: until it's in active use, it doesn't count :-) Feb 11 13:52:48 from twitter: "@quimgil: Still digesting, but the Nokia strategy has MeeGo as a platform for open experimentation and mid term innovation" Feb 11 13:52:53 fendel: its only been shipped recently Feb 11 13:52:53 Raim, I find that often the better approach for the long term is a benevolent dictator... Feb 11 13:53:01 fendel, You're kidding, right? Nokia led the industry for so long because of their hardware. People use 5 year old E71's because they don't die (and don't even run out of battery). Feb 11 13:53:03 mece: lol :P Feb 11 13:53:03 mece: who is the source of that? Feb 11 13:53:21 dwd: 3 year old :) Feb 11 13:53:26 @quimgil Feb 11 13:53:32 fendel: it lacks hdmi and all the other goodies and how long has it been in the procss of being made Feb 11 13:53:36 ruskie: but it was the first try. we have now seen it is possible and someone figured out all the problems with that. we have also seen, that it didn't work as expected. so we learn from this experience and move on with a new plan :) Feb 11 13:53:43 openstandards: The market are changing now and the next few years. Android has opened up a market for off the shelf mobile phone hardware Feb 11 13:53:52 Raim, yeah... but that takes time and a lot of cost... Feb 11 13:54:15 fendel: the embedded market won't change that much Feb 11 13:54:20 while if you were to design a contraption from the ground up with your own OS but allow hacking to others... you could actually be making money to support other things... Feb 11 13:54:29 man, this elop dude, i hope he goes down with wp7 and nokia Feb 11 13:54:30 zr0, Hmm. Yeah, probably. Mine's only 18 months. Up for a replacement, but I have no clue what to replace it *with*, now. Feb 11 13:54:30 Raim, see always innovating touchbook and now smartbook Feb 11 13:54:32 fendel: totally agree, smartphone hardware will be marginalized further and further just like PC hw back in the day Feb 11 13:54:40 @quimgil: Question to those asking me questions: thinking in business terms like CEOs have to think, would made a different choice? Feb 11 13:54:49 @quimgil: And question to myself, shared among freedom lovers: does the standard Linux stack we all know have a future as 4th mobile ecosystem? Feb 11 13:54:53 treebeen`, he'll just jump back to microsoft for a nice big fat bonus for helping take out nokia... Feb 11 13:55:25 "midterm innovation" :/ Feb 11 13:55:38 chouchoune, there is a QML based rewrite of unity Feb 11 13:55:43 Johnny Cash makes for excellent theme music for this Friday. Feb 11 13:55:58 midterm innovation.. more like midterm abortion Feb 11 13:56:02 GAN900, Satanic Warmaster too... Feb 11 13:56:13 ruskie: you can keep using an old phone, they don't rot :-P Feb 11 13:56:18 I wanted an N9 with meego, though... Feb 11 13:56:48 openstandards: Been in China? Never seen as many variants of ipod as I did in Beijing in 2005 or so. A lot more versions that Apple make them self :) Feb 11 13:56:52 i don't see the N9 happening.. and I see Nokia's first WP7 device full of fail Feb 11 13:57:10 openstandards: They was much cheaper than ipod and had much more functionality and diversity Feb 11 13:57:17 I wonder where's the Nokia employees (Quim?) now? Don't they have anything to share about this matter, or do they have to "be silent"? Feb 11 13:57:29 ruskie: it is sick, nokia invested so much in QT and everything. it's like a slap into the face of too many devs. i bet they will be leaving the company Feb 11 13:57:33 @stskeeps: 100 MeeGo code changes mails during the night. Who said #MeeGo was dead? We are #MeeGo and we're very much alive! Feb 11 13:57:35 I'm a bit worried that the library of iOS and Android apps are going to create a barrier to entry. Feb 11 13:57:38 Aranel: they're probably looking for new jobs Feb 11 13:57:41 openstandards, Sold as Apple iPod :) Feb 11 13:57:58 Aranel: http://twitter.com/quimgil Feb 11 13:58:11 zr0: don't think so, they may migrate to "evil WP team" Feb 11 13:58:19 georgem: might it be that that was what drove nokia to WP7? Feb 11 13:58:31 I'd rather quit than make that switch Feb 11 13:58:41 Only those not really interested in what MeeGo offer are saying it's dead ... Feb 11 13:58:46 fendel: most hardware is made by the same company but look at fic who produced the openmoko handset that failed because it couldn't been done in mass Feb 11 13:58:58 av500: I don't know. I think WP7 is suffering from the same problem. Feb 11 13:58:58 angasulino: thank you =) Feb 11 13:59:27 Aranel: np, makes no sense to retweet stuff in here Feb 11 13:59:30 At least WP7 is ready (and already released) Feb 11 13:59:42 openstandards: Unsure how they produce all the crap of the day in China. But it is a lot of devices that they sell dirt cheap Feb 11 13:59:51 alterego: for some definitions of ready Feb 11 14:00:04 fendel: people buy named brands for a reason they believe that name is better, not always the case however the point is nokia had a brand and that brand sold in mass Feb 11 14:00:12 alterego: you're in a state of denial Feb 11 14:00:19 ahiemstra: not mine admittedly. But still Feb 11 14:00:24 erstazi: Meego on mobiles is imho dead. Without someone to make the HW and back the development it just won't happen. Too bad...I was looking forward to an n900 successor.... Feb 11 14:00:25 alterego: yeah, and nobody cares, sales for windows phones dropped even further Feb 11 14:00:26 zr0: am I? Feb 11 14:00:31 alterego: I would prefer waiting couple of years. Feb 11 14:00:43 dD0T: that is from @stskeeps on twitter, not me Feb 11 14:00:48 fendel: how many copies of those ipod copies get exported and i've had cheap chinese knock offs before.... Feb 11 14:00:55 setting up manufacturing is usually a large chunk of the cost, but making a million more or less units doesn't cost that much (relatively speaking), so Chinese factories can easily make a bit extra... Feb 11 14:01:00 treebeen`: I'm being devils advocate, I'm about as likely to get a WP phone as I am Android or iOS Feb 11 14:01:09 the software is generally flakey and feels cheap too Feb 11 14:01:16 erstazi: Just wanted to add my 2cents ;-) Feb 11 14:01:20 http://twitpic.com/3ymf82 Feb 11 14:01:20 dD0T: there will be a Meego device Feb 11 14:01:24 I don't really like Android, I prefer something more open and with less java Feb 11 14:01:45 openstandards: Sure, but they do not need to write software from scratch. The same as with TVs. They comes with Linux Feb 11 14:01:51 At 12:32 today - the talk implied that meego device would be a smartphone. Feb 11 14:01:58 I don't suppose anyone was recording? Feb 11 14:02:05 yeah, what's kept me from getting android is the mediocre hardware and battery life performance Feb 11 14:02:36 erstazi: there will be a Meego device so terrible that he kill other nokia phone... i dream Feb 11 14:02:44 erstazi: Didn't they just scrap the N9. Is something else even announced yet? Feb 11 14:02:49 fendel: but whos going to export the hardware and what about battery life? Feb 11 14:03:00 alterego, problem is, if there's no money behind it, not much is going to happen. Feb 11 14:03:06 zr0, I am not a big fan of "the cloud". I am not interested in putting everything online in a google account. Feb 11 14:03:12 dD0T: In another part of the talk it was mentioned that meego devices in the design process are becoming w7 devices. Feb 11 14:03:13 fendel: how many chinese laptops exist that do well? Feb 11 14:03:16 dD0T: n9 is not announced by nokia Feb 11 14:03:28 Frankly, there's little reason for investors to want to see companies dump that money on MeeGo. Feb 11 14:03:29 So N9 may well arrive Feb 11 14:03:29 fendel: totally agree, that's my other reservation with android Feb 11 14:03:43 openstandards: Battery: Time handle that. Others develop cheap off the shelf hardware that others can buy. Export: Why export? Feb 11 14:03:47 I don't need a smart phone. I have iPod touch I can use with wifi and play stupid games on and a prepaid phone that costs me $100 a year which I keep off most of the time incase my car breaks down. Feb 11 14:03:57 Nokia is bad for my health. Feb 11 14:04:05 dD0T: Elop said that there will be a Meego Device. whether they follow through with that is another story Feb 11 14:04:39 Second time in less than 12 months they've given me heartburn. Feb 11 14:04:40 "if you buy it in large enough numbers" I would say Feb 11 14:04:40 erstazi: not gonna happen Feb 11 14:04:48 they prob have to produce a device as part of contract with intel, like microsofts sidekick thing Feb 11 14:04:50 GAN900: heh Feb 11 14:05:07 With them using WP7 I honestly can see no reason for them to pour any more money into that area though. Feb 11 14:05:15 fendel: so these companies that produce "cheap" hardware, how will i get hold of one when i'm based in the uk i ain't going to china for a phone Feb 11 14:05:26 openstandards: dealextreme.com Feb 11 14:05:33 openstandards: ebay Feb 11 14:05:42 However - the build quality and the software quality is generally not great. Feb 11 14:05:52 openstandards: what do you want with a crap china phone? Feb 11 14:06:03 openstandards: You wont. But they keep developing for their own market. A player gets good at their stuff from time to time and we got another rising star Feb 11 14:07:09 av500: fendel is trying to say theres a market with cheap chinese hardware and i'm pointing out thats its got to be mass produced otherwise it will be pricey Feb 11 14:07:19 I'm out. tata Feb 11 14:08:14 SpeedEvil, georgem had chinese hardware before and it was flakey and quite rubbish Feb 11 14:08:37 not everything from china is cheep crap, zte and huwei arent that far behind korean lg in build quality Feb 11 14:08:55 just remember, all of you - all the contributions from nokia into MeeGo aren't lost. They're open source and public. Feb 11 14:08:55 btw, anyone read somethingabout how much nokia has to pay for the wp7 the want to use to replace their r&d costs? Feb 11 14:09:28 aholler: not specific amounts, no, but royalties they will be paying Feb 11 14:09:29 i wouldnt't be surprised if the cost was less than paying for thousands of symbian guys Feb 11 14:09:30 aholler: I guess around $10 per unit Feb 11 14:09:33 most stuff from China is cheap crap unless it has the backing of a non Chinese company :) Feb 11 14:09:37 fungi: There's lots of high quality stuff from china. But most of it will be OEM or a known brand Feb 11 14:09:47 yup Feb 11 14:09:48 aholler: with volume discounts Feb 11 14:10:04 georgem: They do all kind of stuff in China. They even export OK quality wifes. Feb 11 14:10:13 fendel, loool Feb 11 14:10:18 toninikkanen: yes, but what they'll save is only to become one of the heard. Feb 11 14:10:24 Im glad I didnt make a joke earlier Feb 11 14:10:31 lol Feb 11 14:10:34 or your line would sound very wrong Feb 11 14:10:35 people will just use android.... Feb 11 14:10:38 fendel: but it s not cheap ! Feb 11 14:10:42 av500: 10$ until they are dependent Feb 11 14:10:49 Stskeeps, doesn't mean much if there's never any reasonable hardware to put it on. Feb 11 14:10:51 not really at all Feb 11 14:11:00 Khertan: My wife came for free, but I have to invest time ;) Feb 11 14:11:02 I doubt MS sells virus patches for 10 USD Feb 11 14:11:24 fendel: for the moment ... it s ll higher and higher during time Feb 11 14:11:26 anyway, who cares about nokia, just another company doomed by ms Feb 11 14:11:32 aholler: well Feb 11 14:11:40 Khertan: :-) Feb 11 14:11:44 fendel: do not forget the 14th :) Feb 11 14:11:51 Feb 11 14:11:53 I would have loved MeeGo in the mass market, or at least as an Android competitor Feb 11 14:12:01 GAN900: I guess we'll see some embedded / netbook stuff from the intel side of things. Though I can't quite fathom why you wouldn't use android / windows for that Feb 11 14:12:02 but unless Intel can build its own ecosystem Feb 11 14:12:09 aholler, only real chance of us getting a semi-open mobile device in the near future. Feb 11 14:12:10 it'll remain Yet Another FOSS Project For FOSS People. Feb 11 14:12:16 And Embedded Manufacturers. Feb 11 14:12:21 I still fail to see what intel wants with meego Feb 11 14:12:27 me too Feb 11 14:12:31 and I've talked to them twice Feb 11 14:12:32 netbooks are win7 Feb 11 14:12:39 they do not seem to care that much. Feb 11 14:12:40 av500: yeah. I know what you mean. Feb 11 14:12:51 (I was contacted for AppUp) Feb 11 14:12:55 av500, win8 for ARM :) Feb 11 14:13:01 aholler: I care. They own Qt. I like Qt. Without their runs everywhere strategy they have no reason to invest in Qt. Makes me a sad panda Feb 11 14:13:09 smoku: its still "windows" Feb 11 14:13:18 dD0T: LGPL FTW :) Feb 11 14:13:23 but no investments :( Feb 11 14:13:27 millenomi: Doesn't help without commercial backings Feb 11 14:13:27 dD0T: qt doesn't need nokia Feb 11 14:13:31 I know Feb 11 14:13:33 dD0T: the code is out there Feb 11 14:13:34 av500, yup. I guess that Intel is just covering all bases. Do we support Linux? Sure we do. Feb 11 14:13:34 but there's an exit route. Feb 11 14:13:36 at least. Feb 11 14:13:38 av500: car sat nav systems Feb 11 14:13:45 openstandards: well Feb 11 14:13:47 av500: That's rubbish. Without backing by a company it's going nowhere Feb 11 14:13:57 dD0T: like gnow? Feb 11 14:14:00 dD0T: like gnome? Feb 11 14:14:07 av500: Ever heard of redhat? ;-) Feb 11 14:14:12 av500: Or cannonical? Feb 11 14:14:20 heh heh heh 'cannonical' Feb 11 14:14:21 av500: redhat backs gnome big time Feb 11 14:14:21 canonical came late Feb 11 14:14:22 av500, for intel it's just commoditizing the hardware market. they need a glue to all the APIs out there Feb 11 14:14:28 Feb 11 14:14:36 av500: ever heard of kde? Feb 11 14:14:37 av500: Qt without Nokia (and more importantly, product support) has a bleak future Feb 11 14:14:45 openstandards: rings a bell Feb 11 14:14:49 millenomi: -n for you ;-) Feb 11 14:14:56 how was trolltech doing before nokia bought it ? Feb 11 14:15:05 so so i guess Feb 11 14:15:06 so good that it got bought Feb 11 14:15:06 not too badly since I remember they had to pay hundreds of millions for it... Feb 11 14:15:20 http://www.hs.fi/talous/artikkeli/1135263739290 Feb 11 14:15:26 av500: Best thing Nokia can do is sell it on as a going concern Feb 11 14:15:34 av500: kde doesn't get as much attention as gnome for the fact that gnome has bigger sponsership Feb 11 14:15:36 I wonder who will adopt Qt. Most likely KDE, since they need it for their desktop projects. Feb 11 14:15:37 openstandards: Would prefer if KDE and Gnome could find some middle ground. They are getting closer and closer, but still waste limited resources Feb 11 14:15:39 sell it to who? Feb 11 14:15:53 av500: And given that they are now driven by avirice than ideals, they probably will Feb 11 14:15:58 kde has no money Feb 11 14:16:00 Aranel: KDE has no major financial backer. I doubt they could stem the development Feb 11 14:16:07 -c Feb 11 14:16:15 openstandards; MeeGo/Maemo/Nokia has helped to push pulseaudio, gstreamer,telepathy, and so on in KDE Feb 11 14:16:24 so, maybe today is more a say day for KDE than for nokia Feb 11 14:16:37 av500: Intel might be a good shout Feb 11 14:16:38 http://planet.kde.org Feb 11 14:16:46 dD0T: I don't say that Qt will be the same Qt, with "cross-platform awesomeness, future of the development blah blah" Feb 11 14:16:47 av500: Actually I think Nokia will profit from this step. At least in the short run. Feb 11 14:17:30 dD0T: It will become another way to do things, like Gtk, which is mostly used for desktop (gnome) purposes. Feb 11 14:17:31 dD0T: Short term I think they'll lose money big time... who is going to invest in Symbian (development, or buying phones)? Symbian sales to drop off a cliff, and no WP7 phone until 2012. Feb 11 14:17:56 Good evening Feb 11 14:17:57 The next 2-3 quarters will quite possibly be loss making, pluss all the redundancy packages on top Feb 11 14:18:04 This was a serious fuck up on a large scale Feb 11 14:18:19 Milhouse: Symbian phones are mostly sold in contracts afaik. I very much doubt customers will know or care. It'll hurt their ecosystem though. Feb 11 14:18:28 BTW, you know that GTK+ 3.0 was released yesterday? :) Feb 11 14:18:32 Good things for the Linux dekstop: GTK 3.0 just came out. KDE has matured well with KDE 4.6. No crises Feb 11 14:18:46 fendel: I know this, I chat to a dev that got given a nokia n800 to hack on and another friend whos employed by nokia who was part of the symbian team Feb 11 14:18:53 GTK 3 scares me a little bit. Feb 11 14:18:59 dD0T: If you heard the news that Symbian is going to be killed off, why would you be interested in buying a Symbian phone? Agree that some people won't care, but this is not a good move. Feb 11 14:19:00 Milhouse: Though you might be right. It's not as if I've got that good a grip on the market ;-) Feb 11 14:19:06 ruskie: http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/24/desktoprtd.png thats a kde desktop Feb 11 14:19:12 smoku: yes, but who cares about gtk+, when your platform is buuuurrrrrning? =) Feb 11 14:19:30 Milhouse: The question is how many people will hear or even care. Though bad word of mouth can go a long way.... Feb 11 14:19:33 RST38h, another nail in the coffin? :> Feb 11 14:19:37 Share price now -10.75% Feb 11 14:19:58 Share prices will sky dive like never before Feb 11 14:19:59 openstandards: nice background :) Feb 11 14:20:00 to be far that ceo probably got something out for saying that Feb 11 14:20:01 georgem: gtk 3.x gives room for discussions and changes without screwing up a major ongoing project. It is done and it works. Changes can now be discussed Feb 11 14:20:06 dD0T: This is pretty big news, all over most news services - will be hard to ignore unless you live under a stone. Feb 11 14:20:06 smoku: more like a wooden stake Feb 11 14:20:14 Milhouse: most customers that have a symbian phone dont even know that it is "symbian", they have a nokia phone... Feb 11 14:20:19 I think Microsoft big plan is that they are currently clearing out Nokia and buy the mobile distribution skeleton after 1 year or so. Feb 11 14:20:40 I can see MS buying nokia stocks now Feb 11 14:21:03 openstandards, Might be a plan, they're pretty cheap now. Feb 11 14:21:40 fendel: I'll be happy as long as it doesn't break a bunch of existing apps. Feb 11 14:22:42 I hope someone in the MeeGo area, will offically port it to us N900 users since I won't be buying another Nokia phone Feb 11 14:22:49 fendel: Even better for the linux desktop would be some consolidation instread of the diversification occuring atm.... Feb 11 14:23:05 the single desktop to rule them all Feb 11 14:23:07 comawhite: you are aware that a team has been working on this for a long time? :P Feb 11 14:23:16 i mean, we even have camera working :P Feb 11 14:23:17 As long as its not gnome Feb 11 14:23:18 comawhite, too late Feb 11 14:23:21 lol Feb 11 14:23:25 Stskeeps: Wasn't that port unofficial? Feb 11 14:23:26 it already works on N900 Feb 11 14:23:27 Stskeeps, wasn't it never an official port? Feb 11 14:23:32 dD0T: define 'official' Feb 11 14:23:38 Well, time to go and open a vodka bottle and get seriously hammered Feb 11 14:23:38 Stskeeps: does it also make phone calls? Feb 11 14:23:42 av500: yes, it does Feb 11 14:23:43 /wc Feb 11 14:23:47 av500: even has audio routing Feb 11 14:23:48 av500: devs have egos and those egos are what drive innovation Feb 11 14:23:50 Stskeeps: nice :) Feb 11 14:23:52 Stskeeps, official meaning, not you Feb 11 14:23:53 lol Feb 11 14:23:55 LinuxCode: working is something different. even maemo doesn't work on the n900 properly with factory settings. Feb 11 14:23:55 ;-D Feb 11 14:24:02 is there a way to wipe Maemo and use it natively? Feb 11 14:24:04 it was nokia employees + subcontractors + community doing it Feb 11 14:24:04 Stskeeps: "As good as if the phone shipped with it" Feb 11 14:24:09 dD0T: meh Feb 11 14:24:11 then no Feb 11 14:24:20 and not "was" "is" Feb 11 14:24:22 we're still at work Feb 11 14:24:23 :P Feb 11 14:24:25 If it voids my warranty then weeeellll ;-) Feb 11 14:24:32 MrFlop will come back to Microsoft as an hero who bring Nokia under it's wings. Feb 11 14:24:48 you guys can dual boot if ya want Feb 11 14:24:59 meego site has instructions online Feb 11 14:25:57 Stskeeps, does this mean N900 MeeGo might actually target day-to-day instead of "neat toy". . . . Feb 11 14:25:57 Stskeeps: Though I appreciate the work that has been done in that area. While not being what I actually planned (testing ground for future phones) I'll at least get more use of my n900 itself. Feb 11 14:25:59 -11,27% NOK right now Feb 11 14:26:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8WOZ_avFmA check out that guys Feb 11 14:26:28 shows 10.57% here Feb 11 14:26:30 lol Feb 11 14:26:32 Is the whole press conference available? Feb 11 14:26:34 shocking Feb 11 14:26:42 GAN900: i mean, we have power management in works, we have cellphone working, camera.. i mean, it could be more than a neat toy Feb 11 14:26:44 Stskeeps:is there any roadmap/progress bar/something to read about the process online? Feb 11 14:26:47 I thought after the press conference it would stabilize Feb 11 14:26:48 stskeeps, my liqbase analogy, I have barely touched it all year (have been obviously concentrating on Maemo, now Meego) but I walk around it quite often as a user and occasionally straighten up pictures hanging in the rooms and stuff. MeeGo will get there as long as there are dedicated people doing similar :) Feb 11 14:26:51 LinuxCode: I check from Finnish sources, http://www.kauppalehti.fi/5/i/porssi/porssikurssit/osake/?klid=1050 Feb 11 14:27:03 Aranel: track our status meetings every week on thursdays, we sent minutes out on meego-dev Feb 11 14:27:27 -11,52% Feb 11 14:28:52 worst decision ever. no idea why they didn't push meego hard and provide something like alien dalvik on their devices. Feb 11 14:28:55 Stskeeps, yes, but is it the goal of the project? :) Feb 11 14:29:14 DrGrov: Negative feedback loop engaged. It'll take some time before the stock prices have any meaning again. Feb 11 14:29:15 Stskeeps: okay ^^ I think n900/meego project is much more important now than ever, since many ppl -incl. me- wont ever buy any product from Nokia. Feb 11 14:29:16 GAN900: our goal is to deliver a complete hardware adaptation Feb 11 14:29:23 Aranel: well, then contribute :) Feb 11 14:29:52 dD0T: Yes, it will take quite the time for stock prices to regain trust. Feb 11 14:30:03 Stskeeps: I would love to, I'm not skilled enough. I'm contributing to meego translations anyway :) Feb 11 14:31:15 i wonder how many are thinking about buying shares right now as they are becoming cheap Feb 11 14:31:31 i'd wait a few more hours Feb 11 14:31:45 i'd like to know what the nokia employees think of this. Feb 11 14:31:53 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTCwf6dXZOg Feb 11 14:32:01 MrCase: i think you really don't need telepathy to realize that Feb 11 14:32:06 http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-previous-strategic-mobile-partners/ Feb 11 14:32:41 want to read something ironic Feb 11 14:32:54 dD0T: I agree regarding the Linux desktop. KDE 4.x has matured and Gnome3 is on the way (GTK 3.x just came out). It might be openings in both camps to discuss without becoming a problem for ongoing major projects. Feb 11 14:33:01 http://www.gomonews.com/morgan-stanley-says-buy-nokia-shares-claims-n8-is-a-hit/ Feb 11 14:33:40 -12.5% Feb 11 14:33:55 Stskeeps: Is there something like a "getting started with contributing guide?". I had a look through gitorious, wondering if there's a quick ramp of some sort. Feb 11 14:34:06 openstandards: n8 sold pretty well over here in europe afaik Feb 11 14:34:14 Alright - for the doom and gloom around in here, read it: http://blog.laptopmag.com/intel-were-not-blinking-on-meego :) Feb 11 14:34:16 micrypt: for meego ARM, show up in #meego-arm :) Feb 11 14:34:47 dD0T: i'm in the uk and don't know a single person with one Feb 11 14:34:57 does anyone know what "franchise platform" means? Feb 11 14:35:14 Means "we'll milk it until it dies" Feb 11 14:35:21 fungi: mcdonalds platform, like android Feb 11 14:35:27 fungi, "Do you want chips with that?" Feb 11 14:35:35 openstandards: Anecdotal evidence? Feb 11 14:36:21 openstandards, FWIW, I don't know of anyone with one, but I had a tinker with one at FOSDEM and I was quite impressed with the device. Just a shame the same effort hadn't been put into a MeeGo device. Feb 11 14:36:29 hope! Feb 11 14:36:30 http://blog.laptopmag.com/intel-were-not-blinking-on-meego Feb 11 14:36:39 yes it is ^^ Feb 11 14:36:46 leinir: thank you dan! Feb 11 14:37:07 I wonder what is the next phone then... Any suggestions? Feb 11 14:37:32 sivan: You're very welcome :) i'm just the messenger, mind, but... yeah :) Feb 11 14:37:36 dD0T: correct its only what I've encounted Feb 11 14:37:48 DrGrov: Well, either an avaa or whatever the thing nokia /will/ be releasing is? :) Feb 11 14:38:19 dwd: i was chatting to one lad in here last night who sold his n900 to his cousin as hes got one but thats it Feb 11 14:38:19 (depending on whether you want atom or arm in the short term, i'm sure there'll be plenty other arm devices :) ) Feb 11 14:38:23 Just to clarify ... MeeGo will be still under development for future Nokia devices right ? Feb 11 14:38:27 which will apparently be shipping before any of their wm7 phones... Feb 11 14:38:33 though they maybe not be planning to release one soon Feb 11 14:38:41 ahiemstra: *nods* it's too close to being ready :) Feb 11 14:38:51 xDaReaperx: as a "research platform" Feb 11 14:39:14 okay , so there wont be a real MeeGo smartphone as they planned ? Feb 11 14:39:16 xDaReaperx: Indeed :) speculations are that it's their active fallback - the wp7 thing fails, meego will still be there :) Feb 11 14:39:31 can't blame them, considering M$'s history Feb 11 14:39:32 yeah i really dunno why Nokia would abandon meego Feb 11 14:39:32 openstandards, If I could pick up a cheap n900 I would. Otherwise I'll stick with my E71 until I see this Atom MeeGo phone that Intel have mentioned. Feb 11 14:39:33 (fallback) Feb 11 14:39:39 xDaReaperx: Sure thing - but rather than a whole slew of devices, they'll release one now, and then we'll see :) Feb 11 14:39:51 leinir: Noooo!!! Please no... Nothing with Nokia anymore. I will call Nokia and demand a full refund of my N8 Feb 11 14:39:53 Stskeeps: it's a sensible approach :) Feb 11 14:39:54 Ah okay Feb 11 14:39:59 dwd: there are plenty cheap n900s on ebay and more to come i guess. Feb 11 14:40:02 i mean Feb 11 14:40:11 WinMo not being a success for Palm caused them to develop WebOS Feb 11 14:40:13 lol there's gonna be a high sale of N900 now Feb 11 14:40:16 xD Feb 11 14:40:24 leinir: indeed Feb 11 14:40:27 openstandards: You were talking with me I presume about the N900? Feb 11 14:40:32 i better get some protective casing for my N900 to prevent damange lol Feb 11 14:40:39 yep :D Feb 11 14:40:53 * dD0T droppes his twice already oO Feb 11 14:40:57 Stskeeps: well... that /was/ the old winmo... wp7 is an entirely different beast... though, yeah, i never did actually try anything running it, so i can't really comment more than that of course :) Feb 11 14:41:11 DrGrov: you idle too much and sorry couldn't remember your nick Feb 11 14:41:36 Nokia on the up, hopefully a dead cat bounce... Feb 11 14:41:42 dD0T : i don't take mine out of my house lol Feb 11 14:41:53 (share price, that is) Feb 11 14:41:59 problem is that winmo7 APIs are really limited (by design), there isn't really anything that interesting you can do with them Feb 11 14:42:00 back up to -10.71 Feb 11 14:42:04 % loss Feb 11 14:42:06 xDaReaperx: Its my primary phone so that's not an option ;-) Feb 11 14:42:10 openstandards: No worries, I am idling because I am fucking breaking my left testicle with my Nokia N8 and rest of Nokia phones Feb 11 14:42:13 Milhouse: US market opening? Feb 11 14:42:16 aye Feb 11 14:42:22 Milhouse: which site do you use to track that? yahoo finance had some flash stuff last time I checked Feb 11 14:42:28 Milhouse: what do you expect Microsoft have just brought alot :) Feb 11 14:42:32 just looking at google finance Feb 11 14:42:39 http://www.google.co.uk/finance?q=NYSE%3ANOK Feb 11 14:43:05 connection failed Feb 11 14:43:20 Ah yeah ... i wasn't planning on using it as my primary device Feb 11 14:43:26 i felt it was too delicate Feb 11 14:43:33 safe to say the markets are not liking todays announcement... Feb 11 14:43:50 Nokia makes its decisions too quickly Feb 11 14:43:52 -11.12 now Feb 11 14:43:59 they should have though of this before Feb 11 14:44:03 -11.40% Feb 11 14:44:04 but no use complaining now Feb 11 14:44:12 this new ceo wont last long Feb 11 14:44:19 lol Feb 11 14:44:22 Feb 11 14:44:25 Milhouse: that is just uncool. "For the ubercool interactive charts, you need to install the Adobe Flash Player" Feb 11 14:44:34 IF they manage to get a short term cash horse out of this Feb 11 14:44:35 xDaReaperx: Dropped twice from 1m onto concrete. Only scratched the bevel a bit. The thing is amazingly robust ;-) Feb 11 14:44:38 The it could be ok decision Feb 11 14:44:39 boardroom coup, reverse all his decisions, got to be a total win Feb 11 14:44:45 However I have hard time seeing that Feb 11 14:44:49 Feb 11 14:45:16 xDaReaperx: Dropped twice from 1m onto concrete. Only scratched the bevel a bit. The thing is amazingly robust ;-) Feb 11 14:45:23 Finnish government nationalises Nokia... :) Feb 11 14:45:37 hahaha Feb 11 14:45:39 Milhouse: Haha. From what I hear Nokia is big industry over there Feb 11 14:45:49 dD0T : oh lol i dunno i'm kind of paranoid xD Feb 11 14:45:50 HUGE Feb 11 14:45:53 what about qt/meego/intel-and-the-other Feb 11 14:45:57 yeah, there's a few towns that are more like nokia factories Feb 11 14:46:14 niala1: http://blog.laptopmag.com/intel-were-not-blinking-on-meego Feb 11 14:46:22 Milhouse: boardroom agrees with elop.. Feb 11 14:46:23 Granted Nokia can be made more efficient, but this isn't the way to do it... Feb 11 14:46:24 ahiemstra: Then I guess Nokia better performs well so those ppl. can keep their jobs Feb 11 14:46:37 -11.76% Feb 11 14:46:47 -12.00% Feb 11 14:46:52 was a dead cat bounce, phew Feb 11 14:46:57 I use this, http://www.finanzen.net/realtimekurs/Nokia Feb 11 14:47:15 wow haven't seen stocks drop like that for a while Feb 11 14:47:19 wonder how low it will go today... 52 week low is $8 Feb 11 14:47:26 currently $9.60 Feb 11 14:47:29 microsoft to the rescue.... Feb 11 14:47:32 dD0T: yeah, otherwise they will have problems Feb 11 14:47:34 I am not so angry about Nokia in that sense. I am mostly angry since It will fuck us Finns royally Feb 11 14:48:02 microsoft will bail out nokia for windows mobile Feb 11 14:48:04 -13.6 Feb 11 14:48:12 hahaha, all these analysts calling for a WM7 strategy are now selling their shares Feb 11 14:48:28 they are the only ones really interested in it Feb 11 14:48:29 fucking liberal economy !!! Feb 11 14:48:31 -11.95% on NASDAQ, -13% on EUR markets Feb 11 14:48:50 This is working out well... Feb 11 14:49:21 Milhouse: :p Feb 11 14:49:35 http://twitter.com/#!/jesuscliment/status/36070015975292928 Feb 11 14:49:35 at least it is pretty clear what most people think of it Feb 11 14:49:47 http://twitter.com/#!/jesuscliment/statuses/36056821592494080 Feb 11 14:49:53 DrGrov: Technlogy wise, the board just sold Finland down the river Feb 11 14:50:07 LOL Feb 11 14:50:16 DrGrov: Nokia is just a manufacturing company, putting components together. Feb 11 14:50:16 Milhouse: Yes and that makes me fucking insane over here Feb 11 14:50:51 http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.hs.fi/talous/artikkeli/Yli%2Btuhat%2Bnokialaista%2Bmarssi%2Bty%25C3%25B6paikaltaan/1135263739290&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhgEHALXdzVTBWLv8b2sDbMXXfIZ6A Feb 11 14:51:01 i just watched that openletter vid and well it made me laugh Feb 11 14:51:14 This union isn't going to happen quietly Feb 11 14:51:29 windows mobile will bring services users want.... "bing" Feb 11 14:51:44 sorry but bing is terrible Feb 11 14:51:44 "Over a thousand Nokia employees walk out in protest in Tampere, Finland." Feb 11 14:51:44 Bing is a fucking joke Feb 11 14:51:53 How about this? Feb 11 14:51:57 openstandards: heh, yeah, I LOLD at that one too Feb 11 14:51:59 lol Feb 11 14:52:00 I could care less about Bing - Nokia don't do search, so it doesn't matter to me Feb 11 14:52:08 I call Nokia Monday and demand a fucking refund on all my Nokia phones. Especially the N8 Feb 11 14:52:10 DrGrov: i acctually laughed Feb 11 14:52:18 openstandards: windows mobile will bring revenue nokia & microsoft want *bing* (at least that's the plan I guess ;-) ) Feb 11 14:52:40 DrGrov: and you will get a refund why? Feb 11 14:52:58 Milhouse: too bad the google translation of that article is terrible Feb 11 14:52:58 dD0T: this is win/win for microsoft excuse the phun but they have a brand now Feb 11 14:53:07 -12.41% NASDAQ Feb 11 14:53:19 openstandards: that's quite clear yes Feb 11 14:53:23 av500: I have no idea why but at least I will make Nokia understand from a consumer standpoint how it feels to be royally fucked, not only as a customer but as a country in whole Feb 11 14:53:23 ahiemstra: blame google :) Feb 11 14:53:28 Milhouse: ;) Feb 11 14:54:00 DrGrov: how long have you had that fun for? Feb 11 14:54:16 phone lool Feb 11 14:54:26 openstandards: Sure was the best thing that could happen for WP7. Nokia is still huge (the biggest in everything but smartphones) in the mobile market worldwide. Feb 11 14:54:39 openstandards: Explain better what you mean Feb 11 14:55:11 DrGrov: your n8 how long have you had it for? Feb 11 14:55:19 1,5k ppl. working on symbian. Wow. That's a lot. Feb 11 14:55:34 openstandards: Since day 1 of the release Feb 11 14:55:44 damn Feb 11 14:55:55 I have had the N97, N900 and N8 since 1st day of release Feb 11 14:56:08 pretty loyal then Feb 11 14:56:17 Well, I consider so as well Feb 11 14:56:18 Milhouse: Nokia has been the main research company for basic mobile phone technologies: GSM, UMTS, LTE, and so on. Feb 11 14:56:59 fendel: now they can add research on mobile blue screens Feb 11 14:57:12 well, i got the X6, i guess that was my last Nokia unless they bring out something without wp7 Feb 11 14:57:27 av500, :-) Feb 11 14:57:30 -12% : it is was Elop was meaning by diving into the unknown Feb 11 14:57:43 bzhb: lol Feb 11 14:57:43 does nokia have much patents? Feb 11 14:57:49 openstandards: tons Feb 11 14:57:49 ha Feb 11 14:57:55 bollocks Feb 11 14:58:06 much bollocks? Feb 11 14:58:16 openstandards: Can't built a modern phone without licensing from them afaik Feb 11 14:58:26 thats extremely bad if microsoft do buy stocks Feb 11 14:59:53 Oracle should buy Nokia, sue everybody else. Feb 11 15:00:04 sorry for finnish employes Feb 11 15:00:05 openstandards: As fendel said they are one of the big researchers in the hw/standards space. Feb 11 15:00:09 Alien Dalvik (or similar) on MeeGo and Symbian would have surely been a better option than this bollox... Feb 11 15:00:12 google should buy nokia, sue themselves Feb 11 15:00:31 Milhouse: agreed. Feb 11 15:00:32 If all Elop cares about is an eco-system, he'd have got it on plate for peanuts. Feb 11 15:00:33 dD0T: that I understand and thats whats bothering me so much Feb 11 15:00:46 s/on plate/on a plate/ Feb 11 15:00:47 Milhouse meant: If all Elop cares about is an eco-system, he'd have got it on a plate for peanuts. Feb 11 15:02:04 Some people mentions the possibility that Microsoft might start suing over patents. They have Nokia on their side Feb 11 15:02:56 ipr was mentioned on press releases atleast Feb 11 15:02:58 perhaps google will be smart and buy just incase Feb 11 15:03:14 Googles mistake was not to buy Sun Feb 11 15:03:36 Milhouse: Hm. Google would've done exactly what with sun? ;-) Feb 11 15:03:39 yeah oracle is laughing over that deal Feb 11 15:03:51 fendel: i doubt they have Nokia on their side, they have Elop, and some puppies Feb 11 15:03:58 Solaris patents, a shed load of OS patents actually, plus of course Java... Feb 11 15:04:08 -13.14% Feb 11 15:04:08 dD0T: patents sun is a big patent player Feb 11 15:04:09 dD0T: Patents. The rest could be split up and resold Feb 11 15:04:36 Apple and Google in the plus... Feb 11 15:04:54 i wonder why Feb 11 15:04:58 fendel: Doesn't sound like do no evil to me ;-) And except Java I don't see much google would've gained. Though I might be missing something. Feb 11 15:05:23 -13.94% Feb 11 15:05:33 damn Feb 11 15:06:01 Maybe I'll come out of the shower in a few minutes and this will be all a bad dream Feb 11 15:06:26 dD0T: There are a difference between "do no evil" and being sued Feb 11 15:06:26 fendel: some time ago Novell started some relationship with Microsoft - and there are were similar opinion about suit cases Feb 11 15:06:31 but nothing happen Feb 11 15:06:56 alextai: We have a import tool on our hand: Governments and anti-trust Feb 11 15:07:09 fendel: I don't think google was aware they could be sued. They tried to play it safe by explicitely not using the jvm. Feb 11 15:07:37 fendel: and goverments have shown that they can be brided too Feb 11 15:07:38 alextai: Microsoft on the desktop and on the servers are too big to that what ever Feb 11 15:07:58 openstandards: :-) Qt has had one thing for some time: Knut Yrvin Feb 11 15:08:22 knut yrvin? Feb 11 15:08:34 openstandards: A lot can be said about Knut, but he is one of those who know how to put pressure on politicians Feb 11 15:09:26 openstandards: There are some small groups of individuals who makes pain for major players. That is of major importance Feb 11 15:10:05 http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-previous-strategic-mobile-partners/ Feb 11 15:10:15 no comment Feb 11 15:10:34 Norway made Apple change their iTunes licensing policies. That was partly by support of people like Knut. Feb 11 15:10:37 be honest... I waited for meego nokia phone... and I do very like qt... as for phone - I believe that somebody else will continue this,,, as for Qt... I hope Nokia will continue it since it can be very valued on M$ platform as well Feb 11 15:10:42 all of microsoft mobile partnerships ended really bad for thei partners Feb 11 15:11:11 how long before he jumps ship thou fendel Feb 11 15:11:44 Today, Microsoft Business Division President Stephen Elop and Nokia’s Executive Vice President for Devices Kai Öistämö announced the agreement, outlining a shared vision for the future of mobile productivity. Feb 11 15:11:59 That was in aug 2009.. What happened? Two and a half years later the same Stephen Elop announced that Symbian will be deprecated. Feb 11 15:12:09 -13.33% NYSE Feb 11 15:12:53 "this deal combines microsoft's openness with nokia's innovation." Feb 11 15:12:53 wow Feb 11 15:12:55 and still falling Feb 11 15:13:02 do they really said that? haha Feb 11 15:13:02 -13.51% NYSE Feb 11 15:13:06 is AMD already work on meego ? Feb 11 15:13:43 Aranel: ha ha ha ha **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 11 15:15:53 2011 Feb 11 15:17:17 -14.06% Feb 11 15:20:32 Milhouse: it doesn't mean much... people has very short memory.... they will go up pretty short Feb 11 15:20:32 Elop said it took Google 2 years to become leader with linux... Nokia has linux for much longer time Feb 11 15:23:30 Milhouse: except they'll end up in a similar situation like google.. their partners won't be happy m$ giving 'nokia' brand preference Feb 11 15:23:31 With nokias scale, that won't be a problem for Microsoft Feb 11 15:24:05 hiya Feb 11 15:24:24 so, nokia is ditching meego and adopting wp7? Feb 11 15:24:48 ditching everything, and adopting wp7. yep. Feb 11 15:25:15 very strange Feb 11 15:25:36 somehow this will strip nokia of all the relevance, after all who cares who is making the hardware? the software is what is runs the game. and MS will decide on that... Feb 11 15:25:57 /is// Feb 11 15:26:04 treebeen`: indeed Feb 11 15:26:07 otoh, it was obvious that meego is coming lte to the party...too bad :-( Feb 11 15:26:08 treebeen`: its not that simple - at the moment MS has 1Ms of WP7 handsets - Nokia's volumes are 100Ms Feb 11 15:26:30 treebeen`: so, Nokia has a lot that MS needs - route to market and sales volume in ~100 countries Feb 11 15:26:46 treebeen`: which is why it's MS and not Android - Nokia means a lot to MS - they would mean nothing to Google Feb 11 15:26:55 so people Feb 11 15:27:03 what i remember got nokia famous was being able to change the covers... Feb 11 15:27:24 openstandards: I think Nokia will be able to "change the covers" on WP7 if they are shipping 90% of the devices :P Feb 11 15:27:34 the analysis on the register is very sadly the practical and realistic one Feb 11 15:27:36 Robot101, so where do you think meego will go medium-term (<= 6 months)? Feb 11 15:28:04 They say that meego stays r&d, but .. Feb 11 15:28:08 Robot101, Hey, Rob. So you were right, and I didn't believe it was possible. Feb 11 15:28:08 pvanhoof: well - they're still committed to releasing a device this year Feb 11 15:28:16 Robot101: nokia has patents.... Feb 11 15:28:20 One device, you think more will happen with meego? Feb 11 15:28:28 pvanhoof: there'll be a device from nokia, but who will seriously b developing for MeeGo (and Qt) after todays news? it's a dead end device, but no doubt interesting all the same. Feb 11 15:28:39 but the fact Qt isn't part of the WP7 story - means it will have an "N900" problem Feb 11 15:28:45 pvanhoof, There's promising noise from Intel. Feb 11 15:29:03 a standalone device with very little platform appeal unless Intel also produces some devices Feb 11 15:29:09 dwd: care to clarify? Feb 11 15:29:13 i'm hoping to see devices on MWC. Feb 11 15:29:22 Robot101, You saw Intel's note on an Atom based phone this year? Feb 11 15:29:26 Robot101: i can't see anyone getting rid of maemo to run win mobile.... Feb 11 15:29:27 well done Elop Feb 11 15:29:29 heh Feb 11 15:29:34 Naranek: I was saying last weekend that I thought the Nokia + WP7 rumour was the most credible I'd heard Feb 11 15:29:34 ahh #meego is quiet again ... Feb 11 15:29:34 Naranek, http://blog.laptopmag.com/intel-were-not-blinking-on-meego Feb 11 15:29:54 dwd: thanks Feb 11 15:30:23 dwd: cool - thats roughly what I thought - Intel has multiple pokers in the fire around MeeGo besides Nokia Feb 11 15:31:33 come on freenode Feb 11 15:31:46 http://www.slashgear.com/google-offers-sacked-nokia-engineers-a-lifeline-11132817/ Feb 11 15:31:47 what's appens? a second Elop attack today? Feb 11 15:31:52 Stskeepz, It's the cold - the pipes freeze. Feb 11 15:32:11 dwd: so freenode = hell, as hell froze over today? Feb 11 15:32:25 Great, the evil Android grows. Feb 11 15:32:52 Stskeepz: yes Feb 11 15:33:08 better anddroid than iOS or WP7 or even symbian Feb 11 15:33:20 :) Feb 11 15:33:21 better android than wp7, GAN900 Feb 11 15:33:28 psycho_oreos: whats wrong with symbian... Feb 11 15:33:30 ugh channel overflow thingy Feb 11 15:33:39 always disconnecting Feb 11 15:33:42 has everyone seen the mail on meego-community to elop and dell? Feb 11 15:33:43 lol Feb 11 15:33:49 psycho_oreos: s3 is great i dont agree Feb 11 15:33:58 <[Rui]> Just saw -14% Feb 11 15:34:20 [Rui]: the stocks are like a yoyo right now Feb 11 15:34:21 “Finland is our home, and it will remain our home” Feb 11 15:34:27 openstandards, reboots whenever it wants, cannot turn off stupid camera sounds, C:\ and Z:\ usually hidden and are read-only. Feb 11 15:34:34 polteuus, not in the slightest. Feb 11 15:34:48 polteuus, Android is evil in a way WP7 can never be. Feb 11 15:34:56 sivan900, you meant something like s^3? Feb 11 15:34:58 <[Rui]> openstandards: like a yoyo falling down a mountain, sometimes when it hits a stone it jumps a bit up, but still falling Feb 11 15:35:10 I'd rather see webOS grow than android, it's already the Windows95 of phones Feb 11 15:35:27 openstandards, and that's just barely the tip of the iceberg for my qualms with s60 Feb 11 15:35:42 psycho_oreos: yes dude i have seen it and played with it it is shiny and great for mm Feb 11 15:35:44 GAN900: how so? Feb 11 15:36:15 sivan900, hah, shiny and great.. more like being locked inside some obscure jailhouse :) Feb 11 15:36:46 polteuus, it's a black hole. Feb 11 15:37:10 psycho_oreos: symbian is open now thou Feb 11 15:37:15 It sucks open source devs into contributing to a project which help nothing else in Linux or open source. Feb 11 15:37:34 When you're contributing to Android, you're only contributing to Android. Feb 11 15:37:36 openstandards, o rly? where's their open source portal? I heard it was no longer open :p Feb 11 15:38:18 20,000 layoffs expected in Finland: http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20110211/massive-layoffs-expected-at-nokia/ Feb 11 15:38:20 GAN900: agree Feb 11 15:38:26 and softwares written for WP7 supports none other than WP7 devices Feb 11 15:38:28 no different Feb 11 15:38:41 psycho_oreos: symbian s^3 is opensource Feb 11 15:39:08 openstandards, and their portal? link? is it still up and valid? :) Feb 11 15:39:31 openstandards, they've ditched fixing woeful s60 for s^3? how wonderful Feb 11 15:39:52 psycho_oreos, yes, it's very different. Feb 11 15:39:53 leaving the s60 users in the dark, typical of nokia's attitude Feb 11 15:40:02 WP7 and iOS don't pretend to be anything they're not Feb 11 15:40:12 You know what you're getting into with Apple and Microsoft. Feb 11 15:40:13 psycho_oreos: its a rewrite.... Feb 11 15:40:30 With Google, Android pretends to Open Source. Feb 11 15:40:33 GAN900: this is the ceo's doing Feb 11 15:40:40 20 000 can't be Feb 11 15:40:54 And suckers in large swaths of the open source community supporting their advertising machine. Feb 11 15:41:08 GAN900: did you know that Android even has a x86 port (not from google) Feb 11 15:41:09 openstandards, slow adoption for nokia n?? and e?? series handhelds seems like Feb 11 15:41:12 So we end up with a blackhole platform subverting open source. Feb 11 15:41:18 iekku: all so that nokia can flog a few WP7 phones... Feb 11 15:41:23 selling a lot of locked down devices. Feb 11 15:41:32 GAN900: stop spreading FUD, as much as I don't like whats going on Feb 11 15:41:48 GAN900: my n900 is pretty open mate Feb 11 15:41:56 GAN900: android IS open source. granted, carriers install closed middleware on their phones... but it's the carriers you have to blame Feb 11 15:42:01 android is opensource per se Feb 11 15:42:02 GAN900, I don't think android is that overly pretentious, every platform is pretentious in their own ways Feb 11 15:42:06 <[Rui]> openstandards: erms... right... pretty open... Feb 11 15:42:09 lol Windows Phone 7 Feb 11 15:42:14 sorry but you guys are screwed Feb 11 15:42:17 polteuus: only in a shallow "you can have the source code after all of our vendors are done with it" Feb 11 15:42:19 id jump ship now if I were you Feb 11 15:42:20 sort of way Feb 11 15:42:28 siriusly: meego != nokia, and don't troll Feb 11 15:42:35 [Rui]: the battery managment... was the problem for the devs Feb 11 15:42:53 Stskeepz - meego backs Nokia pretty much Feb 11 15:42:59 <[Rui]> openstandards: what about the graphics card? gsm? Feb 11 15:43:12 <[Rui]> iirc still pretty close.d Feb 11 15:43:26 meego doesn't back anyone, meego was founded because of a joint venture existed between Intel and Nokia Feb 11 15:43:34 <[Rui]> don't get me wrong, I was pretty excited with meego, specially partnering with Intel, as it could mean more open phones in the future. Feb 11 15:43:41 <[Rui]> but N900 isn't exatly open. Feb 11 15:43:43 [Rui]: find me a phone other than the neo freerunner and neo 1973 thats completely open Feb 11 15:43:50 <[Rui]> though not designed for meego either Feb 11 15:43:58 Milhouse: that 20k is the number of employees nokia has in finland :P not the number of layoffs Feb 11 15:44:00 polteuus, it may be open source, but it's not Open Source. Feb 11 15:44:02 you won't be able to Feb 11 15:44:13 Which is an important distinction Feb 11 15:44:16 Can you make calls with these Neos? =) Feb 11 15:44:23 Supporting Android does not support Linux. Feb 11 15:44:24 <[Rui]> openstandards: even those aren't fully open, the freerunner has about 5 computers in it, 4 of which run on closed firmware. Feb 11 15:44:43 yesterday i have installed the NokiaQtSDK and the QtSDK. I had a look ad PySide and QML. today I think of it as wasted time. Feb 11 15:44:59 [Rui]: ok if thats not even open, how the hell do you expect me to hate nokia for the n900 Feb 11 15:44:59 <[Rui]> at least the main OS can talk to them all via more or less clean interfaces allowing for a fully free stack (modulo the firmware blobs for bt, wifi, gps and gsm) Feb 11 15:45:07 GAN900: stop spreading that rubbish, do some research first Feb 11 15:45:25 Kaadlajk: well, they could be laying off 20k people if they plan to completely ditch finland :p Feb 11 15:45:26 GAN900: stop spreading FUD Feb 11 15:45:30 <[Rui]> openstandards: I don't expect anyone to hate nokia for the n900, if it wasn't so overpriced I'd get one to help port SHR into it :) Feb 11 15:45:40 Changes to Android only benefit Android (and Google) Feb 11 15:45:47 <[Rui]> openstandards: but don't claim it's open, please :) Feb 11 15:46:10 <[Rui]> I was hoping Aava would be an openphone, but it seems more like vapourware so far Feb 11 15:46:20 re lardman Feb 11 15:46:22 kaadlajk: The Finnish government is already bracing itself for the hit. "You’re talking about 20,000 people, it’s a big number," <--- Finnish government minister, ambiguous wording perhaps but he seems to be suggesting that number could be laid off Feb 11 15:46:24 [Rui]: it exists, but only as a devkit Feb 11 15:46:42 hey sivan900 Feb 11 15:46:49 Milhouse, Does that count the ecosystem too, or Nokia only? Feb 11 15:47:00 dneary: What eco-system? ;-) Feb 11 15:47:07 [Rui]: ok, i'm claiming it to be the most open phone on the market other than the freerunner... thats all not completely open Feb 11 15:47:19 treebeen`, proving my point. Feb 11 15:47:49 <[Rui]> wmarone: how open is it? Feb 11 15:47:52 [Rui]: i'm actually trying to point out to GAN900 how nice nokia have done things in the "past"... Feb 11 15:48:27 <[Rui]> wmarone: is it going the way of OpenMoko? Taking so long to get a product out, overly hyped marketing and then coming out so late it's no longer a top hw phone? Feb 11 15:48:31 openstandards, aint FUD, buddy. Feb 11 15:48:31 Dispute my claims if you care to, don't just dismiss it as FUD Feb 11 15:48:44 [Rui]: what are you referring to, the Aava? Feb 11 15:48:49 <[Rui]> wmarone: yes Feb 11 15:48:52 Android has opened up a market for cheaper and more open hardware. MeeGo can use that Feb 11 15:48:54 openstandards, it's my understanding the n900 can't even charge without proprietary code? Feb 11 15:49:09 they're selling the devkits into Intel and Nokia, I suspect that may shift but I've got no insight into that area Feb 11 15:49:11 Milhouse, Tieto, Symbio, Ixonos, TAT, Movial, ... Feb 11 15:49:24 <[Rui]> openstandards: well, Nokia was better than many compannies, but far from nice. Consider software patents, they're one of the strongest european supporters of software patents. Feb 11 15:49:32 arfoll: read up and you'll see i said theres issues with battery management already Feb 11 15:49:38 <[Rui]> wmarone: ok. Feb 11 15:49:51 but they're like, $2000 a piece. Feb 11 15:49:55 openstandards, I think youmve missed my point. Feb 11 15:49:57 Milhouse, I'm sorry, I can't bring myself to be flippant about people's livelihoods & companies Feb 11 15:49:58 [Rui]: Nokia has a lot in common with IBM Feb 11 15:50:19 <[Rui]> wmarone: just that I'd love to replace my Freerunner with another open phone (if at least as much) so I could save my Freerunner for my fondest memories Feb 11 15:50:22 dneary: point is, the lack of eco-systems is how we got here, apparently Feb 11 15:50:26 <[Rui]> fendel: but IBM is not european Feb 11 15:50:28 Milhouse, I'm putting myself in the place of friends of mine who are right now probably going "Oh shit, my main client might go away" Feb 11 15:50:33 [Rui]: that I didn't know I do know one of the devs that worked on some gstreamer audio got a n800 Feb 11 15:50:41 dneary: good ML post. Very apropos. Thanks. Feb 11 15:50:45 dneary: am not treating anyones loss of livelihood lightly Feb 11 15:50:48 <[Rui]> fendel: and there's really evil stuff WRT software patents going on *right*now* at the European Comission Feb 11 15:50:58 Milhouse, Nokia has been extremely successful in creating an ecosystem of companies Feb 11 15:50:58 dneary, moral superiority, eh? ;) Feb 11 15:51:04 GAN900: what is your _point_? Feb 11 15:51:07 GAN900, Any time I can :) Feb 11 15:51:25 [Rui]: right.. I have't been watching. What is it this time? Feb 11 15:51:35 I'm missing it so explain it to me. Feb 11 15:51:42 dneary: shame elop doesn't think so, but with today's news they're not in a good position, unless they know Windows APIs. Feb 11 15:51:47 openstandards, Google subverts Open Source with Android. Feb 11 15:52:12 no hanset mfct did open source like nokia Feb 11 15:52:14 GAN900, Also because I just bought a house, and 3 of my main leads for training services probably disappeared today, so I just said goodbye to ~35% of my annual revenues, so I'm kind of in the same boatr, with 5 mouths to feed Feb 11 15:52:15 <[Rui]> fendel: they're trying to, under the guise of harmonising the EU patent system, throw the patent regime into the European Patent Office, which is a non democratic international *company* and with no jurisdicional oversight. Feb 11 15:52:24 NONE Feb 11 15:52:32 They're an advertising company co-opting open source contributors into contributing to a black hole. Feb 11 15:52:36 <[Rui]> fendel: all the supporters of software patents support this harmonisation.... guess why... Feb 11 15:52:53 GAN900: I know android isn't opensource, the eco system doesn't scream opensource, heck you need liceasing permision to bundle the google apps with it Feb 11 15:53:15 <[Rui]> fendel: the principle of harmonising laws in EU is ok, by me. but doing it the way they're doing will legalize software patents by proxy Feb 11 15:53:23 GAN900: sorry but you can build an android image using opensource ala cyanogen no problems Feb 11 15:53:36 [Rui]: I agree. Will have a look in the weekend Feb 11 15:53:39 dneary, yeah, we're all taking a hit here, both financial and emotional. Feb 11 15:53:47 My point exactly Feb 11 15:53:51 * TSCHAKeee hugs dneary Feb 11 15:53:52 dneary, trust me, nobody here is flippant about that. Feb 11 15:53:55 <[Rui]> openstandards: GAN900: andoird is free software, of course. but it's free software friendly to proprietary lock downs. Feb 11 15:53:56 arfoll: just can't use google's app :) Feb 11 15:53:58 GAN900+++ Feb 11 15:54:01 * TSCHAKeee hugs GAN900 Feb 11 15:54:11 <[Rui]> the result is that there's only freedom in android if you're a phone developer Feb 11 15:54:16 openstandards, yes but thats the same on n900 Feb 11 15:54:26 [Rui]: this i understand Feb 11 15:54:32 i'm just in shock, because it's like I witnessed the mass suicide of an entire company. Feb 11 15:54:37 I have an online friend (we've met in person a few times, but we know each other online mostly) who's creating a company & is basically broke now Feb 11 15:54:43 Every penny is in her company Feb 11 15:55:05 dneary: I've been there. I spent my entire 20s helping found a company. Feb 11 15:55:06 TSCHAKeee++ Feb 11 15:55:14 And she recently wrote a Facebook status (she's very honest about this all) saying "why is it pep talks always seem so patronising?" Feb 11 15:55:49 dneary: the interesting thing is if we can turn this around and still benefit from/to MeeGo.. i don't think meego's dead and my source of income is at risk too Feb 11 15:55:54 So I wrote that the feedback I got from other business owners was what Winston Churchill said: "When you're going through hell, keep going" Feb 11 15:55:56 dneary: i got cancelled a meego interview today. i hope it will be rescheduled Feb 11 15:56:17 Stskeepz, Indeed - that's the challenge, and one of the things I've been thinking about Feb 11 15:56:46 Stskeepz, As a viable platform for an application developer ecosystem, it mostly died today (let's be frank) Feb 11 15:57:01 But as a vertical platform one step above Yocto, it's very much alive Feb 11 15:57:09 dneary: how do we do that ? it is becoming hard with the strikes that wrath upon us Feb 11 15:57:17 dneary, trust me, nobody here is flippant about that. Feb 11 15:57:18 At this rate, the Linux Foundation will be the center of the Linux embedded world soon :) Feb 11 15:57:27 dneary: i'm not so sure about that (that it died today), all things considering, but it took a really really nasty beating Feb 11 15:57:29 Stskeepz: i have to agree with dneary Feb 11 15:57:47 Indeed Feb 11 15:57:53 This dude was way ahead of the curve! http://consumertrack.blogspot.com/2010/08/clownsumers-at-it-again-nokia-n9-leaked.html Feb 11 15:57:54 i don't think meego will die i can see alot of promise in it Feb 11 15:58:06 sivan900, I don't see any phone builder using MeeGo (but who cares? with Android & WebOS, we have two viable Linux phone OSes) Feb 11 15:58:07 nokia is luckily only one player in meego, big but not the only one Feb 11 15:58:16 If - big if - Intel pull their phone platform out of nowhere and back MeeGo on it, then MeeGo isn't dead. Feb 11 15:58:21 i dont think OS/2 will die Feb 11 15:58:55 dneary, Both WebOS and Android use the Linux kernel, but not the userspace. Feb 11 15:58:57 sivan900, On the other hand, tablets, cars, planes, TVs, media centers, some consumer device category we haven't seen yet... Feb 11 15:59:09 mihero: sadly intel is not a player in any of the recently attractive markets. Feb 11 15:59:09 dwd, So they're Linux, but not GNU/Linux Feb 11 15:59:26 dwd, Android is free software, for the most part (more than Maemo was) Feb 11 15:59:28 dwd: wrong, they are using some of the userspace Feb 11 15:59:29 dneary: lets hope those will hold the eco system yes Feb 11 15:59:32 thanks Nokia Feb 11 15:59:32 dneary, I'd argue they're Linux, but not in any useful way. Feb 11 15:59:34 Hum ... nice ... The job position i apply about porting an Android app to Symbian / Meego in C++/Qt was just cancelled ... Feb 11 15:59:36 pffff Feb 11 15:59:37 <[Rui]> dneary: only WebOS is closer to what most people perceive as a "Linux" device. Android only uses a bastard version of the kernel Feb 11 15:59:41 And WebOS isn't (but there's a bunch of open source on it) Feb 11 15:59:41 what a fucking day ! Feb 11 15:59:43 what does "blink on" means? Feb 11 15:59:54 mihero: they paid big for larrabee and to nvidia and have nothing against what is happening CPU/GPU wise on the mobile market. Feb 11 15:59:57 Aranel: not keeping focus for a sec Feb 11 16:00:03 Elop should be castrated Feb 11 16:00:06 andburned Feb 11 16:00:08 <[Rui]> webos is openembedded with a graphical stack above it Feb 11 16:00:09 Khertan, Serious, or joking? Feb 11 16:00:14 Khertan: theres an app that does that for maemo already Feb 11 16:00:15 dneary: serious Feb 11 16:00:17 Aranel, Intel is saying they're not changing (or even considering changing) their MeeGo strategy at this point, I think. Feb 11 16:00:40 "Over a thousand Nokia employees walk out in protest in Tampere, Finland." Feb 11 16:00:41 and there is NO GNU/linux today, it's a/b/c/d/e/.../GNU/Linux Feb 11 16:00:42 huh. Feb 11 16:00:42 <[Rui]> daedaluz: at this rate, he will be fired. those things are a bit of an hyperbole, I hope. Feb 11 16:00:42 intel failed in wireless for a decade Feb 11 16:00:49 dwd, That's damage limitation for stock value Feb 11 16:00:53 openstandards: there is a demonstration of an app ... it s not avialable yet Feb 11 16:00:56 dwd, We'll see in April Feb 11 16:01:08 openstandards: and will surely not be free Feb 11 16:01:14 They'll give themselves 2 months to come up with a decent public strategy Feb 11 16:01:16 I'm sad, very sad. Nokia is dead to me as of today. Feb 11 16:01:16 okay, thanks ^^ Feb 11 16:01:22 dwd: on the other hand, if they just heard about the new strategy of Nokia, they couldn't have done any changes themselves. they need to analyze the situation before making any announcements Feb 11 16:01:24 [Rui] worst thing is the board knew this will happen, Elop is not allowed to function rogue Feb 11 16:01:28 CLIPPY LIVES IN EUROPE! Feb 11 16:01:29 Elop will not be fired Feb 11 16:01:31 of course I'm hoping they'll stick with meego Feb 11 16:01:35 yeah i can't see it being free at all interesting none the less Feb 11 16:01:38 orospakr: source? Feb 11 16:01:57 orospakr: I was there and did not realize there was a walk out :P Feb 11 16:01:59 <[Rui]> daedaluz: of course, but I think they're very deluded that it would be taken as a good thing, I only see positive comments from known microsoft fanboys Feb 11 16:02:07 most likely elop was hired to do this, board had allready decided this will happen Feb 11 16:02:10 <[Rui]> I'm discaring officially paid lobbyist, of course. Feb 11 16:02:24 mihero: +1 Feb 11 16:02:34 daedaluz, In hindsight, it seems clear that the house-cleaning in Autumn was preparing the terrrain: Ari Jaaksi, Carlos Guerreiro, OPK et al all left because MeeGo was on the way out & was declared a failure Feb 11 16:02:46 daedaluz, So Elop was hired to make this partnership happen Feb 11 16:03:02 http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/nokia-workers-walk-out-in-protest-20110211/ Feb 11 16:03:04 In summer this as predicted http://consumertrack.blogspot.com/2010/08/clownsumers-at-it-again-nokia-n9-leaked.html Feb 11 16:03:26 http://thenextweb.com/eu/files/2011/02/Screen-shot-2011-02-11-at-15.20.01.png Feb 11 16:03:30 bah freenode Feb 11 16:03:37 Imagery for your day today. http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/5432356309/ Feb 11 16:04:42 sivan900, split? Feb 11 16:05:38 When was elop hired/ Feb 11 16:05:43 GAN900: sudden disconnect Feb 11 16:05:44 autumn Feb 11 16:05:54 SpeedEvil: september i think Feb 11 16:05:58 It was mentioned discussions began in November. Feb 11 16:06:05 let's see, how long do you gather it will take nokia to make a good wp7 phone? Feb 11 16:06:08 During the Q+A I think Feb 11 16:06:16 i just wanted to say and i hope nobody here grudge us communit for what we say Feb 11 16:06:20 there is no such thing as a good wp7 phone. Feb 11 16:06:22 treebeen`: Impossible. Feb 11 16:06:25 and never will be. Feb 11 16:06:28 it is a very bad day for us so far Feb 11 16:06:38 well, just one that works... you know what I mean Feb 11 16:06:46 define works. Feb 11 16:06:53 from my perspective the n900 is a total fail. Feb 11 16:06:59 They will have phones out and in themarket in 2012 Feb 11 16:07:05 no bugs, runs like MS intended it Feb 11 16:07:09 milions. Feb 11 16:07:22 But MS put the bugs in for a reason! Feb 11 16:07:22 as i realize some decision makers and hirerers r here please bare with us at our harsh hour Feb 11 16:07:43 I don't think I want most of the decision makers bare. Feb 11 16:07:55 sivan900 I doubt anyone would hold it against anyone in here Feb 11 16:08:00 can they bring out a wp7 phone this years? Feb 11 16:08:06 *year Feb 11 16:08:09 treebeen`: no Feb 11 16:08:10 What will happen to Trolltech/QT ? Feb 11 16:08:14 better install MSVC and C# Feb 11 16:08:29 some of us have dedicated the last 2 or more years and lost out job due to passion for meego. Feb 11 16:08:32 ahiemstra: ok, let's assume they can do it in 2012... it will be far too late Feb 11 16:08:37 http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2011/02/11/nokia-names-new-north-american-president Feb 11 16:08:45 another ex Microsoft to Nokia Feb 11 16:08:50 MarcA-N: thanks for the reassurement Feb 11 16:08:53 Cliipy lives! Feb 11 16:09:01 chouchoune: .. Feb 11 16:09:35 wow, re: NA Pres Feb 11 16:09:40 chown meego windows Feb 11 16:09:46 Stskeepz: ? Feb 11 16:09:50 crevetor: nobody kjnows Feb 11 16:09:55 dneary: I don't think (m)any of those people were strategically dispatched as you're inferring - except OPK, but that was because shareholders were baying for his blood - nothing more Feb 11 16:09:58 i just figured this is our way to ingest this Feb 11 16:10:01 treebeen`: yes, which is also what completely baffles me in this entire story Feb 11 16:10:37 Olii Pekker sucks Feb 11 16:10:40 ahiemstra: it just proves that some people in the management have no clue about what is going on right now Feb 11 16:11:02 and to talk to each other in our grief given no counseling is given by LFS :P Feb 11 16:11:25 dneary: I can see how Torres was somehow staking his career on MeeGo being at the top of Nokia's sw strategy, and so it's not surprising to see him go now Feb 11 16:12:09 Hasta manana Torres Feb 11 16:12:17 dneary: thanks for noting the livlyhood issues in this nightmare Feb 11 16:12:29 What would be nice is a spinoff of Nokia which would develop new phones with meego Feb 11 16:12:44 <[Rui]> ouch http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-previous-strategic-mobile-partners/ Feb 11 16:13:18 Wonder if Torres will end up at HP or Intel Feb 11 16:13:45 <[Rui]> rotflol no bugs, runs like MS intended it Feb 11 16:14:49 [Rui]: you mean by design ? Feb 11 16:14:51 -13.92% and it keeps going down Feb 11 16:15:29 at some point it will be a buy Feb 11 16:15:34 slaine: no, at google ;) Feb 11 16:15:44 <[Rui]> polteuus: I just saw Down 1.22 (14.94%) http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NOA3.DE Feb 11 16:16:02 Buy! Buy! Buy! Feb 11 16:16:03 ahiemstra: ouch Feb 11 16:16:08 :) Feb 11 16:16:26 Clippy: why? do you expect they will still sell phones? Feb 11 16:16:27 Did Microsoft just start Chemio on what it calls a cancer ? Feb 11 16:16:30 [Rui]: http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:NOK --> I was reading here Feb 11 16:16:36 <[Rui]> 15% now Feb 11 16:17:03 <[Rui]> Clippy: that's what Balmer's thinking right now, I'm sure. Feb 11 16:17:19 "Today, Microsoft Business Division President Stephen Elop and Nokia’s Executive Vice President for Devices Kai Öistämö announced the agreement, outlining a shared vision for the future of mobile productivity." - August 2009 Feb 11 16:17:27 <[Rui]> if Microsoft tries to buy Nokia, it should go to SEC investigation Feb 11 16:17:34 <[Rui]> and EU as well. Feb 11 16:17:41 SEC usually not, usually FTC Feb 11 16:17:59 <[Rui]> guy leaves MS in good terms, goes to be Nokia President, makes disastrous move for Nokia, then leads to buyout... Feb 11 16:18:01 <[Rui]> hms... Feb 11 16:18:04 What happend Nov 30 - price was a bit below current values? Feb 11 16:18:12 Robot101, On the plus side, Collabora should be able to take over Nokia in a couple of hours at this rate. Feb 11 16:18:21 dwd, lol Feb 11 16:18:34 whats nokias enterprise value? 35 billion? Feb 11 16:18:43 Clippy, It was 40 this morning. Feb 11 16:18:52 yep, 35b Feb 11 16:18:53 Oh. http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/keyDevelopments?rpc=66&symbol=NOK×tamp=20101118133600 Feb 11 16:18:53 dwd: :) Feb 11 16:18:59 dwd, lol Feb 11 16:19:03 dwd: I'd definetly apply to collabora then ;) Feb 11 16:19:04 Clippy, two-and-a-half chocolate bars and half a packet of peanuts now. Feb 11 16:19:24 dwd: Salted, or unsalted? Feb 11 16:19:26 crevetor, I wouldn't. I hear the boss is a real slave driver. Feb 11 16:19:32 airline prices or 7-11 prices? Feb 11 16:19:40 Don't know about that. Feb 11 16:19:56 Ok then I'll start my company and will finish porting Android to the N900 Feb 11 16:20:02 where is dneary 's post on the ml ? Feb 11 16:20:14 starting a company to port an OS to an older HW? thats nuts Feb 11 16:20:14 crevetor, (I'm joking - the boss is posting in here now...) Feb 11 16:20:30 * dwd considers using smilies. Feb 11 16:20:40 <[Rui]> Clippy: or that. Not an expert in US thingies Feb 11 16:20:46 dwd: huhu ok. Feb 11 16:20:59 is pt portugal? Your bonds are going for a ride i heard Feb 11 16:21:02 Clippy: it was a joke. Feb 11 16:21:04 can we trust collabora to push open source ? :-) Feb 11 16:21:19 <[Rui]> Clippy: Portugal has some decades of disastroups Elops as prime ministers. Feb 11 16:21:36 nice land tho, i went to caiz caiz and lisbon in 2004 Feb 11 16:21:41 sivan900, trac record seems ok - see git.collabora.co.uk Feb 11 16:21:47 <[Rui]> Clippy: things have been so bad even the Prime Minister emigrated for a better job (current president of European Comission) Feb 11 16:22:09 Collabora's actually been working on our own BeOS based mobile platform, totally closed source. We're planning to announce some new mobile devices with Sinclair soon. :P Feb 11 16:22:17 arfoll: i was kidding :-) Feb 11 16:22:29 SpeedEvil, November was when OPK et al left Nokia. Then there was the software strategy announcement in December, and Elop seemed to be avoiding major boat rocking, then rumours this week drove the price up, and today... Feb 11 16:22:35 It's all a microsoft strategy : announce a bad move for Nokia, have the stock price drop, buy Nokia. Now they own the whole chain (software + hardware)... Feb 11 16:22:57 crevetor, surely they need developers,developers,developers? Feb 11 16:22:57 i dont forsee that Feb 11 16:23:07 i wore the ninja shirt day after day until my boss fed up with it :-) Feb 11 16:23:10 arfoll: who does ? Feb 11 16:23:15 crevetor: And they can then sell them bundled, taking a reduced profit hit, as they have the nokia profit too. Feb 11 16:23:28 crevetor: so it seems according to stock Feb 11 16:23:39 Anyone interested in buying the share, tomorrow mid-morning would be a good time Feb 11 16:23:53 crevetor, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=developers%2Cdevelopers%2Cdevelopers&l=1http://lmgtfy.com/?q=developers%2Cdevelopers%2Cdevelopers&l=1 Feb 11 16:23:55 SpeedEvil: yup. And then they can bundle computer computers+phone Feb 11 16:23:56 <[Rui]> dneary: lol Feb 11 16:24:14 Today is shock selling & profit taking, tomorrow that'll keep going for a few hours, then people will realise "hold on, it's Nokia, these shares are really cheap" Feb 11 16:24:28 arfoll: thanks ;) Feb 11 16:24:30 And the prices will pick up again. For a 6 month hold, it's a good bet Feb 11 16:25:03 oh well, at least my feeling on Qt was right - an expensive experiment Feb 11 16:25:46 It's not going down any more, you'll note - the announcement has been "priced in", as the market says Feb 11 16:25:57 * SpeedEvil realises that his last two phones 'next gen OS' have both gone down after they switched to QT Feb 11 16:26:04 (neo1973 and n900) Feb 11 16:26:09 Wait till Monday for the magnitude of cuts to sink in, I bet it goes down further Feb 11 16:26:13 Aranel, alas, only some random guy on Twitter. Who knows how accurate it is. Feb 11 16:26:26 SpeedEvil, Was Qt the lifebuoy or the anchor? Feb 11 16:26:33 http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/nokia-workers-walk-out-in-protest-20110211/ Feb 11 16:27:12 nokia stock will go down as people who trusted old good strategy sell them off, when US markets open people believing in new strategy will make it rise Feb 11 16:27:15 yeah, it's likely mostly the symbian people. Feb 11 16:27:39 with a smattering of MeeGo people, I suspect :) Feb 11 16:27:45 daedaluz: aren't US markets open ? Feb 11 16:27:47 I actually think it'll rise quickly to 9 euro Feb 11 16:27:48 daedaluz the us market is open Feb 11 16:27:53 exactly.. Feb 11 16:28:03 the us mkt is open and the ADR are down significantly Feb 11 16:28:16 but I agree with dneary, Nokia is a pretty stable company Feb 11 16:28:31 in other news, gong rumin is in a scandl Feb 11 16:28:34 MarcA-N: was Feb 11 16:28:48 holy crap, they are. what surprises me even more is that Microsoft is sinking too Feb 11 16:28:50 with all the noise around Nokia these days and the decision, Nokia is not the same now Feb 11 16:29:04 no, definitely not Feb 11 16:29:07 companies change though Feb 11 16:29:13 they find new support from like minded people Feb 11 16:29:18 http://www.google.ca/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:NOK Feb 11 16:29:23 those people are probably not here, right now Feb 11 16:29:31 just saying ;) Feb 11 16:30:20 daedaluz: I expected Nokia to fall and Microsoft to rise Feb 11 16:30:22 msft also is hurting a bit Feb 11 16:31:04 looking at stock prices, I'd say all those bloggers bitching at Nokia and Symbian and Meego were dead wrong. Nobody actually wanted it Feb 11 16:31:08 to go away Feb 11 16:31:11 dneary: Well - speaking of the neo1973 - in march 2007 they had a more-or-less functional GTK phone stack, that could have been a basic dumbish phone + X for xmas 2007, with little investment. Feb 11 16:32:05 that last link say tampere office closes ? Feb 11 16:32:20 seems and error in translation Feb 11 16:32:42 it is. doens't say so in the original finnish article Feb 11 16:32:52 My understanding of the Nokia-Microsoft deal: Nokia admits publicly they have nothing extra compared to what Asian cheap factories can make more effectively. Feb 11 16:33:09 So.. why should the stock go up? Feb 11 16:33:10 timoph: omgs Feb 11 16:33:27 timoph: they cant close the tampere office ! Feb 11 16:33:42 fendel yea Feb 11 16:34:23 timoph: i wish i was there to march with them. Feb 11 16:34:32 mmmhhh, actually buying Nokia stock now is quite safe, how could they go further down ? Feb 11 16:34:43 chou, yes Feb 11 16:34:59 can go down more or flat or up Feb 11 16:35:14 chouchoune, easily, just wait until small investors in Europe hear the news over the weekend Feb 11 16:35:19 we'll see when they'll start announcing something Feb 11 16:35:20 "nokia did WHAT?! Feb 11 16:35:42 waiting to see Clippy on a Vertu phone Feb 11 16:35:47 daedaluz: they won't sell to such a cheap price anymore Feb 11 16:35:51 chouchoune: How can they not go down? Nokia was not priced as a direct competition with HTC and what ever OEM factory of the day Feb 11 16:35:54 I'm not going to start guessing anything Feb 11 16:36:22 fendel: I agree, going down was normal, but going down again is nonsense now Feb 11 16:36:34 timoph: sure sorry i am just overly shocked. Feb 11 16:36:41 np Feb 11 16:36:45 I just hope it won't go up now ;) Feb 11 16:37:08 why is this shocking, it was predicated! Feb 11 16:37:11 chouchoune: Down 70% would sound logical to me. Nokia is not positioned to compete. They could fire 80% of staff and become HTC, but what else? Feb 11 16:37:51 I sure hope it rises, I'm 900 euro poorer than I was in the morning lol Feb 11 16:38:21 yes but it's still Nokia with marketing strength, it can't go down before they unvail WP7 phone which would fail Feb 11 16:38:42 chouchoune: Nokia was something. It is still a major research company, but nothing special on devices. They are also competing directly with Huawei on infrastructure. Huawai got the deal for the whole network of the larges phone company in Norway Feb 11 16:38:49 I'm sorry for you daedaluz Feb 11 16:38:59 but if share goes up then ms cannot take over no ? Feb 11 16:39:01 prediction: they will differentiate by re-introducing Clippy onto the phone as a little helpful animation software Feb 11 16:39:41 anyway, time to leave from work Feb 11 16:40:04 I see the MS-Nokia deal as a major boost to Huawei, LG, Samsung, HTC, and others. It is more scary for the google lawyers Feb 11 16:40:09 fendel: wrong.best of breed devices engineerd from out of this world Feb 11 16:40:23 fendel: and WebOS :) Feb 11 16:40:23 good luck to all persons impacted by this decision (Nokia employees, contractors, ...) Feb 11 16:40:33 agree chouchou Feb 11 16:40:41 thats a bad feeling of uncertainty Feb 11 16:40:53 sivan900: Nokia had good devices, but others can learn that fast. They are learning that fast trough Android. Feb 11 16:40:56 I think webos doesn't look that bad, haven't had a chance to try it though Feb 11 16:41:10 chouchoune: that is uneeded here stop Feb 11 16:41:20 fendel: disagree Feb 11 16:41:40 fendel: maemo today does more than android or ios will ever Feb 11 16:41:56 please let me know an example sivan Feb 11 16:42:03 sivan900: I am talking hardware. Nokia is not a software company. That was yesterday Feb 11 16:42:34 Clippy: get a maemo device. the ecperience is beyond words Feb 11 16:42:46 sivan900: yeah. totally crappy. Feb 11 16:42:56 fact is that you can't even phone with a stock n900. Feb 11 16:43:08 sivan900: I do enjoy N900. I like the freedom Feb 11 16:43:13 MrCase: no it is amazing and it can be used just as a laptop Feb 11 16:43:16 ill probly ping timeout, i am telnetted in and have to take a shower.... good night to the eu folks Feb 11 16:43:22 which is what i am doing now Feb 11 16:43:44 "Nokia CEO: China faster at making phones" - http://www.chinaeconomicreview.com/china-eye/2011_02_11/Nokia_CEO:_China_faster_at_making_phones.html Feb 11 16:43:47 sivan900: it is as good as a laptop as a laptop is as good as a washing machine. Feb 11 16:44:01 flash webcasta irc facebook share internet with joikuspot Feb 11 16:44:06 you name it Feb 11 16:44:25 get calls in the middle Feb 11 16:44:28 MrCase, don't talk about what you don't - that was his experience, and is backed by mine and others Feb 11 16:44:30 listen to music Feb 11 16:44:37 act as a streamer Feb 11 16:44:45 MrCase: Small changes would make a N900 into more or less similar as the laptop I am using: 1.2Ghz CPU, decent GPU, and 2GB RAM Feb 11 16:45:11 mobile hd backup device amazing camera Feb 11 16:45:28 game platform Feb 11 16:45:38 remote control Feb 11 16:45:47 syntific survey device Feb 11 16:45:51 fendel, how is that 'small' changes? Feb 11 16:46:04 security device Feb 11 16:46:04 arfoll: The software is more or less the same Feb 11 16:46:23 arfoll: Just buy the new generation components Feb 11 16:46:45 fendel, 2GB of ram? Feb 11 16:46:57 arfoll: RAM is cheap Feb 11 16:47:09 then show me one phone with 2GB of ram Feb 11 16:47:31 i even helped my boss reroute all his sms s or resppnd to the from afar by sshing into his n900 while he was abroad Feb 11 16:47:52 sivan900: it is a geek device, no doubt. totally useless as a phone for a normal user who would buy something like a motorola defy. Feb 11 16:48:09 arfoll: why do you need 2gb of ram? Feb 11 16:48:10 MrCase: :) Just like a normal smart phone would be useless for me Feb 11 16:48:16 I'm fine with 512mb on my pc Feb 11 16:48:32 2gb on a phone is wasted Feb 11 16:48:34 arfoll, how many non-disclosure agreements are you willing to sign ? Feb 11 16:48:41 MrCase: that is the only geek usage did not you see the list of stuff before ? Feb 11 16:48:47 before you see said 2GB ram phone Feb 11 16:48:51 ;-p Feb 11 16:49:29 polteuus, i don't, he said ram was cheap so 2GB was easy on a phone Feb 11 16:49:30 nokia supported developers like no company ever in mobile open field see forum nokia Feb 11 16:49:53 this is a bad bad nightmare Feb 11 16:50:08 I bet there is a concept phone out there, with 2GB of ram and x86_64 arch Feb 11 16:50:10 I'm not really sure of the impact of this, is meego still going to be run as an OSS project just receive far fewer resources from Nokia? Feb 11 16:50:19 polteuus: Anything less than 2GB RAM in a PC is pain. Swap is slow Feb 11 16:50:22 destinal-work, that is correct Feb 11 16:50:55 sivan900: What worries me the most (appart form lots of good people being laid off) is what will happen to QT. I have the same feeling as when Oracle bought Sun Feb 11 16:50:56 Why not 4GB RAM on a 32bit platform? Feb 11 16:51:13 RAM makes multitasking easier Feb 11 16:51:17 crevetor: we will have to wait and see Feb 11 16:51:21 crevetor, QT is mainly FOSS Feb 11 16:51:29 it will probably be forked Feb 11 16:51:32 fendel, Multitasking is stupid on a phone. Feb 11 16:51:39 if they mess with it Feb 11 16:51:40 fendel, I know because Steve Jobs told me so. Feb 11 16:51:43 I doubt they will Feb 11 16:51:45 cost, availability of parts in the right form factor, power requirements Feb 11 16:51:48 crevetor: with qt nokia was unbeatble Feb 11 16:51:54 dwd: ;) All right then Feb 11 16:51:54 nokia should have let 30 of their devs develop killer apps for maemo for 6 months. Feb 11 16:51:58 honestly, it was a big loss today Feb 11 16:52:02 LinuxCode: sure but you can't deny that having full time developers, project leaders, etc helps open source projects a lot Feb 11 16:52:09 and yes, you can answer most questions by googling Feb 11 16:52:09 sivan900: I agree Feb 11 16:52:13 crevetor, of course Feb 11 16:52:20 RST38bis: Power might be a problem Feb 11 16:52:34 sivan900: What's really disappointing is that they had a really nice strategy and it all went to waste today Feb 11 16:52:42 not might be, it is a problem, among other things Feb 11 16:52:44 oh did i mention download meeting slides while listening to music and reading writing emails ? Feb 11 16:52:58 I think it is fair to say, that if we didnt have red hat pay most peoples wages, there would be a Fedora release every year Feb 11 16:53:05 with not mnay added features Feb 11 16:53:14 the same applies to other foss projects Feb 11 16:53:22 crevetor: I would say it is close to a must. Almost all effective and productive open source projects has well paid and experienced staff Feb 11 16:53:23 crevetor: i think we must pledge to the board to officially announce fallback on meego and qt when wpt fails Feb 11 16:53:30 LinuxCode: exactly Feb 11 16:53:34 LinuxCode: debian is community-driven Feb 11 16:53:42 polteuus, indeed Feb 11 16:53:55 fendel: yes that's why I'm worried about QT Feb 11 16:53:59 because wp will fail Feb 11 16:54:04 I think generally, the development of new features would slow down Feb 11 16:54:07 LinuxCode: War, Oil, Weapons, and so on... They pay for Linux Feb 11 16:54:08 but it would carry on Feb 11 16:54:20 LinuxCode: Top500 Feb 11 16:54:22 just as win7 continues to ger reinstalled on some new http malware Feb 11 16:54:31 sivan900: that'd be nice but even then, it will be too late and I doubt Nokia could still come back from it Feb 11 16:54:32 fendel, errrm Feb 11 16:54:44 I doubt many big businesses directly are involved Feb 11 16:54:44 crevetor: they could Feb 11 16:55:05 crevetor: there r AMAZING people there in bulk Feb 11 16:55:15 sivan900: Will they stay though ? Feb 11 16:55:16 crevetor: with amazing innovation Feb 11 16:55:31 crevetor: if our pledge is heared maybe Feb 11 16:55:56 sivan900: Yeah. I sort of doubt it Feb 11 16:55:56 i say this afte getting to know many of themr Feb 11 16:56:17 not to mention the ecosystem Feb 11 16:56:19 LinuxCode: Why should businesses be directly involved? IBM, Red Hat, Oracle, Novel, and so on do the contracting and product development for them Feb 11 16:56:26 which is just as amazing Feb 11 16:56:42 fendel, exactly Feb 11 16:56:54 so why did you mention top500 ? Feb 11 16:57:10 That is why those companies do good money (Novell had some issues) Feb 11 16:57:11 god, I think this "ecosystem" word is really gonna tick me off Feb 11 16:57:32 ecosystem == corporate greed Feb 11 16:57:35 ecosystem my ass. Feb 11 16:57:40 i.e. app store Feb 11 16:57:46 why didnt they talk to ibm Feb 11 16:57:48 that is all they care about Feb 11 16:57:55 another kernel patcher Feb 11 16:58:12 LinuxCode, Well, to be fair that's true for any company. Feb 11 16:58:21 dwd, sure Feb 11 16:58:23 LinuxCode: Linux has been developed largely by huge organizations needs. Governments has put a lot of money into Linux based nuclear weapons research. Oil companies into oil research and so on Feb 11 16:58:33 but....wrapping it into a shitty word kinda sucks Feb 11 16:58:39 just when ovi became even better with free pblishing etc for individuals Feb 11 16:58:47 fendel, ehhh Feb 11 16:58:48 LinuxCode, My concern with Nokia's decision is it suggests they're quitting a long-range (and badly executed) strategy. And nobody likes a quitter. Feb 11 16:59:04 fendel, government maybe through Unis Feb 11 16:59:06 dwd: see the stock Feb 11 16:59:14 the stock talks best Feb 11 16:59:23 sivan900, whats it now ? Feb 11 16:59:29 I only just came back Feb 11 16:59:33 -13.42% on Google. Feb 11 16:59:37 jesus Feb 11 16:59:41 LinuxCode: Sure. Top500 and so on. Feb 11 16:59:43 it was 10 when I left lol Feb 11 16:59:55 LinuxCode, But it's holding steady now. Feb 11 16:59:55 http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2011/02/3310wp7.jpg Feb 11 16:59:56 ... Feb 11 17:00:03 fendel, Uni stuff work on linux in their "own time" Feb 11 17:00:09 there is no "research project" Feb 11 17:00:15 which makes them work on it Feb 11 17:00:25 dwd, shocking Feb 11 17:00:33 that should really speak for itself Feb 11 17:00:53 that usually only happens when they lost billions in revenue Feb 11 17:02:23 LinuxCode: http://lwn.net/Articles/237768/ - Most of Linux is made on company time Feb 11 17:02:54 mainly technology compnaies Feb 11 17:02:56 anyway my energy is drained for today but this and old blog post about something that nokia were among the first to offer - ivi before ivi existed: Feb 11 17:03:08 I dont see a weapons manufacturer there Feb 11 17:03:11 fendel: What is true for the kernel is a bit different for software Feb 11 17:03:35 http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/sivan-greenbergs-forum-nokia-blog/2010/09/29/maemo-meego-ivi-without-an-in-built-ivi-system-or-how-to-be-in-tel-aviv-and-feel-a-bit-like-you-re-in-helsinki Feb 11 17:03:57 fendel: and BTW I think if those stats were on the latest kernel we would see a far greater proportion for Nokia Feb 11 17:04:16 crevetor: http://lwn.net/Articles/420658/ Feb 11 17:04:18 and my friends tell me ios dont do this yrt not sure about android Feb 11 17:04:55 it is practically over. in 2012: android, ios, palm. Feb 11 17:05:08 unless oracle pulls a stunt on google. Feb 11 17:05:13 sivan900: android has some sort of IVI Feb 11 17:05:34 vgrade: my department is closing and moving to cambridge at the end of the teaching year :( Feb 11 17:05:46 MrCase: Do not forget the people in the east. There are a huge room for something there Feb 11 17:06:33 CosmoHill: :-( Feb 11 17:06:54 be back later i am spent Feb 11 17:07:10 fendel: for sure not w7 :). Feb 11 17:07:42 seems stupid concidering they rolled out new computers and networking equipment over the past 18 months Feb 11 17:07:44 The Asian companies uses Linux in all kind of devices. Why not phones? Feb 11 17:07:57 they do use it in phones Feb 11 17:08:01 yep Feb 11 17:08:03 they have been doing for aages Feb 11 17:08:06 yep Feb 11 17:08:14 ali1234, :) Feb 11 17:08:17 would you like some cake? Feb 11 17:08:17 and linux is in every android phone Feb 11 17:08:26 CosmoHill: uni department ? Feb 11 17:08:28 see, the power of linux is you can customize it to the point where nobody even knows it is running linux Feb 11 17:08:33 * CosmoHill just wanted av500 to say yep 3 times in a row Feb 11 17:08:39 sivan900: yep Feb 11 17:08:52 they're closing it and moving it to the cambridge campus Feb 11 17:08:59 cya i'm ou Feb 11 17:09:03 s/ou/out Feb 11 17:09:13 cyas Feb 11 17:09:14 crevetor: was not discussing ivi per se but ivi experience with maemo Feb 11 17:09:56 crevetor: fm transmitter et al n900@is the most feautre packed platfrom ever Feb 11 17:10:06 now bye all Feb 11 17:10:16 we must rest for what lies ahead Feb 11 17:10:42 fm transmitter Feb 11 17:11:34 fm transmitter ftw :) Feb 11 17:12:06 bilboed-tp: not here, every spot taken :( Feb 11 17:12:19 I cant drive 10km without changing the frequency Feb 11 17:12:24 you live in a radio testing center or what ? Feb 11 17:13:02 nope, near frankfurt Feb 11 17:13:05 same effect Feb 11 17:13:21 works for me over 100km range Feb 11 17:13:33 maybe it is a regional thing, or maybe it is because i don't have a car, but i find FM transmitter really pointless Feb 11 17:13:34 mine works great, but then again my areal got remove by a bush Feb 11 17:13:37 driving 200km trough austria I had to change frequency 8 times :D Feb 11 17:13:53 of constant driving and streaming finish radio interent through 3g Feb 11 17:14:08 sivan900: yes, but where? Feb 11 17:14:33 i will bring mine to nokia care tomorrow. 3 defects. Feb 11 17:14:34 :P Feb 11 17:14:56 will not mention the missing apps and the 600 euro i have spend a year ago for a phone one can buy for 150 euro on ebay now. Feb 11 17:15:40 you can buy any year old phone for 150 euro on ebay... Feb 11 17:16:07 sure. but not like everyone of them. Feb 11 17:16:14 at least this is how it feels. Feb 11 17:16:25 but maybe everyone sells their after a year. Feb 11 17:16:41 anyway. Feb 11 17:16:58 i will try to hack something with PySide and QML for the n900. Feb 11 17:16:59 * CosmoHill needs a new phone Feb 11 17:17:05 or super glue Feb 11 17:17:10 CosmoHill: which one? Feb 11 17:17:22 I broke the keypad on my nokia 6220c Feb 11 17:17:36 +yesterday Feb 11 17:18:02 MrCase: I can't see one under 250 euro sold on ebay.co.uk Feb 11 17:18:06 MrCase: In new condition Feb 11 17:18:12 my phones aren't given to me new so I tend to treat them kinda badly Feb 11 17:18:14 eflop Feb 11 17:18:23 than and when I get angry to tend to throw them Feb 11 17:18:36 Well - apart from the dual SIM model of the n900. Feb 11 17:18:37 (never text / phone me bad news) Feb 11 17:18:48 SpeedEvil: i meant used phones. Feb 11 17:20:10 The only used ones I see going for that are either smashed screen, or sold using a stock photo, from a seller with 0 feedback. Feb 11 17:20:17 (again, ebay.co.uk) Feb 11 17:20:59 ebay.de here. used in the 200 range. new for 300 (which is too much, considering a milestone 2 costs 400). Feb 11 17:25:59 bly me, there are still people here after todays announcement! Feb 11 17:26:20 of course, meego isn't dead Feb 11 17:26:48 It's just resting. Feb 11 17:26:52 Pining for the fjoords. Feb 11 17:27:06 really? Feb 11 17:27:07 Stskeepz: well Flop axed it already. Feb 11 17:27:13 http://mynokiablog.com/2011/02/11/poll-on-a-scale-of-1-to-10-how-pssed-off-are-you-with-todays-nokia-news/ Feb 11 17:27:48 * CosmoHill pets berndhs Feb 11 17:28:08 did I do something wrong ? my ISP keeps disconnecting Feb 11 17:28:16 probably their hamster is tired Feb 11 17:28:26 they need to get a cat Feb 11 17:28:28 berndhs: they need to upgrade to gerbils Feb 11 17:28:56 gerbils multiply faster and like living in groups, thus allowing for more wheel uptime Feb 11 17:29:11 yeah or run 2 hamsters in parallel Feb 11 17:29:13 trumee: rd budget on nokia side is planned to be lower, but meego.com still works Feb 11 17:29:19 my friend's gerbils never had a wheel Feb 11 17:29:28 meego is not going anywhere. Feb 11 17:29:35 CosmoHill: tragic, so much wasted power Feb 11 17:29:38 Stskeepz: meego.com is hosted by the linux foundation Feb 11 17:29:42 it just take some time to mature Feb 11 17:29:46 Stskeepz: is Collabora still on the team? Feb 11 17:30:08 trumee: i'm not from collabora, so i dont know Feb 11 17:30:56 Stskeepz: Flop mentioned about cutting outsourcing, so it will interesting to know how it affects Collabora Feb 11 17:31:30 trumee: i think that effects a lot of other companies too Feb 11 17:31:43 Stskeepz: well, meego is already half-dead (netbook ux), no? Feb 11 17:32:22 slonopotamus: netbook ux didnt have any features in 1.2 as the focus was on handset, i think Feb 11 17:32:43 Stskeepz: what happened to your nick? Feb 11 17:32:51 CosmoHill: i'm evil stskeeps Feb 11 17:33:09 this years biggest disappointment, Nokia & Microsoft Feb 11 17:33:09 Stskeepz: no progress = dead software Feb 11 17:33:23 Stskeepz: more like high impedance Stskeeps (bad hdl joke) Feb 11 17:33:29 what does this mean for Meego? Feb 11 17:33:33 Stskeepz: kinda hard to tell tbh Feb 11 17:33:47 slonopotamus: could just be sleeping Feb 11 17:33:55 slonopotamus: bugs have been worked on afaik Feb 11 17:34:08 otherwise the open source world would be full of zombies Feb 11 17:34:32 CosmoHill: and it is :) Feb 11 17:34:36 wasnt there a lot of recruitement lately within nokia for meego development? Feb 11 17:35:01 interesting fact, there are 100 more people in here than were in here wednesday Feb 11 17:35:09 trumee: My guess: The different departments was not informed before lately. Feb 11 17:35:20 linuxplatform: according to Intel, It means MeeGo lost a major partner, and It still has "other" (?) partners. Feb 11 17:35:21 yes Feb 11 17:35:44 linuxplatform: according to more pessimistic ppl, It means MeeGo is dead, It's never going to be stable etc.. Feb 11 17:36:08 Intel probably see MeeGo as just another distro. One of many they support Feb 11 17:36:09 we've had people saying meego is dead without the N9 for ages Feb 11 17:36:14 nothing about "without nokia" tho Feb 11 17:36:24 well not until this week anyway Feb 11 17:36:31 it up to makers, there are going to be stable products afaik. from intel and nokia at least. Feb 11 17:36:34 hmm Feb 11 17:36:35 it's Feb 11 17:37:20 was waiting for my first MeeGo phone, that hope is now gone :( Feb 11 17:37:37 There will be a meego phone. Feb 11 17:37:44 this would be a good time for another company to pick up meego, flop would probably agree to sell it ;) Feb 11 17:37:44 If there will be a next is questionable Feb 11 17:37:48 SpeedEvil: one? :) Feb 11 17:38:05 why would anyone want to buy it knowing it is a dead horse? Feb 11 17:38:12 I guess (blindly) MeeGo will be more tablet/netbook-centric OS than a smartphone OS from now on, since Nokia is not going to make new devices for it. Feb 11 17:38:34 CosmoHill: IMHO, the MTF is the reson why our co. has been working on a MeeGo device. With Nokia's decision, we're obviously anxious about the future of MTF. Feb 11 17:38:37 treebeen`: sell what? Feb 11 17:38:44 it's not good for the competition Feb 11 17:38:45 Speaking personally, if it's a more capable n900 style device, because it's a more stable n900 style device. Feb 11 17:39:00 treebeen`: MeeGo is not a property and it's name rights are property of FSF, not Nokia. Feb 11 17:39:26 Aranel: hmm, ok, forget the "sell" part Feb 11 17:39:32 MTF? Feb 11 17:39:33 MeeGo is run by LF, not FSF :) Feb 11 17:39:51 oops, sorry. my mind is blown today :| Feb 11 17:40:20 CosmoHill: MeeGo Touch Framework. Feb 11 17:40:41 oh well. mubarak has retired, at least some good news. Feb 11 17:40:43 DawnFoster: we should have lfs publish a request for a major partner to meego that will support it as nokia did Feb 11 17:40:54 MrCase: heh Feb 11 17:41:50 * CosmoHill goes to chill out Feb 11 17:41:52 anyone wanna come? Feb 11 17:42:19 waiting bus to chill place.. Feb 11 17:42:39 I've spent hours at uni going round in circuls :( Feb 11 17:42:42 so it's just Intel left on MeeGo development? Feb 11 17:43:10 Intel is the only big company, there's the rest of us little people too Feb 11 17:43:14 linuxplatforms: Nokia has not pulled out of MeeGo. Feb 11 17:43:28 gabrbedd, MTF's future is brighter than the one of the Symbian. Feb 11 17:43:41 there's even a slide where they said they'll continue to develop meego. Feb 11 17:43:51 CosmoHill: I'm not that sure about it. Feb 11 17:43:53 mikhas: symbian has no future. Feb 11 17:43:54 The angst is whether or not we believe them. Feb 11 17:44:00 I'd like to comment here about the disaster, but my thoughts have mostly been posted already, in a slightly more peaceful way. Feb 11 17:44:01 http://www.carrypad.com/files/2011/02/meegorandd.jpg Feb 11 17:44:12 It's part of the platform API, so even if it gets axed it would take a year or so before it would vanish from MeeGo devices Feb 11 17:44:14 There are other big companies in the MeeGo game, dunno how they're commited to it but anyway.. Feb 11 17:44:30 jep Feb 11 17:44:32 Like Cisco, Electronic Arts (gaming, anyone?), BMW, AMD, Fujitsu etc. Feb 11 17:44:42 gabrbedd, also: MTF is available @ gitorious, sitting in the open. Feb 11 17:44:47 well if there is alternative for android, i would guess so Feb 11 17:44:55 You don't need Nokia to keep open stuff alive. Feb 11 17:44:57 MrCase: Thanx. Feb 11 17:44:59 what does EA exactly contribute to Meego? Feb 11 17:45:22 mikhas: Yes, but part of our strategy was to piggy-back off Nokia's hard work on MTF. Feb 11 17:45:37 gabrbedd, well, look at what you have today Feb 11 17:45:55 MTF has become quite stable over the last couple of months Feb 11 17:46:10 and it has a few useful features for handhelds Feb 11 17:46:33 If it wasn't software, you could say "It's nearyl finished" ;-) Feb 11 17:47:49 mikhas: Maybe I'm working on the wrong build (entirely possible)... because what I have is not "stable" by any means. Feb 11 17:48:21 There have been over 150 people working on MTF (check http://www.ohloh.net/p/mtf/factoids/3809119) Feb 11 17:48:30 those people arent going to simply die now, you know Feb 11 17:49:06 mikhas: I know. Have I not said, "Nokia has not pulled out of MeeGo" ?? Feb 11 17:49:16 mikhas: :-) Feb 11 17:49:45 mikhas: It's friday and I'm too ticked off to make decisions. :-) Feb 11 17:49:53 * gabrbedd goes sit beside CosmoHill Feb 11 17:50:29 Dont make any hasty decisions Feb 11 17:50:36 so far, only rome has been burnt down in a day Feb 11 17:50:52 oh right, "Do not kill yourself" ;-) Feb 11 17:51:49 MrCase: games I guess. Since Maemo simply sucks about gaming and any kind on interactive entertainment. Feb 11 17:51:49 I had Andry Birds on my N900 before anybody had even played it on the iphone or android.. Feb 11 17:51:50 Angry Birds Feb 11 17:51:50 gaming of Maemo = a few commercial games (mostly indie titles), emulators, preenv, angryman. Feb 11 17:51:50 yup AB was cool, so keep it coming, what other games are Maemo-exclusive? Feb 11 17:51:50 Aranel: It's just because it was such a small market that games weren't developed for it Feb 11 17:51:50 not a matter of ability to run games Feb 11 17:51:50 sure, MeeGo was planned to be a mass market OS anyway Feb 11 17:51:50 so EA is there, to make games and profit. Feb 11 17:51:50 They wouldn't do the same for N900 since it is a very small market. Feb 11 17:52:03 gabrbedd, keep reporting stability issues @ bugs.meego.com - we do care Feb 11 17:52:07 * CosmoHill hands gabrbedd and PS3 controller Feb 11 17:52:34 MrCase: user draw Feb 11 17:52:35 wmarone: nothing then. Feb 11 17:52:35 EA is as evil as M$ Feb 11 17:52:36 MrCase: without users you have nothing Feb 11 17:52:37 does anyone knows if applications developed for meego will run on the wetab or maemo(N900) too? Feb 11 17:52:38 janmalte: meego and wetab is likely Feb 11 17:52:38 maemo less Feb 11 17:52:39 what happens if people continue to stop buying atom netbooks and buy tablets instead? Feb 11 17:52:39 ok, thanks for the information Feb 11 17:52:39 where intel has no share? Feb 11 17:52:40 to me the one with the foot in the market was nokia. Feb 11 17:52:40 there are tablets with atom processors Feb 11 17:52:46 mikhas: I'm not going anywhere. Just axious is all. Feb 11 17:53:20 am I lagging or does Freenode act weird? Feb 11 17:53:32 LinuxCode: competitive to the ARM ones? Feb 11 17:53:52 MrCase, thatsa subjective view I cant really answer Feb 11 17:54:01 as I have not played with arm/x86 tablets Feb 11 17:54:13 I just bookmarked a link with one Feb 11 17:54:31 gabrbedd, aren't we all anxious today? Feb 11 17:54:45 not a good day to make decisions ;-) Feb 11 17:55:20 god, I nees to stop hording bookmarks Feb 11 17:55:23 need* Feb 11 17:55:33 I would paste the thing, if I could find it Feb 11 17:55:55 You might have been getting the following question countless times today and in that case I am sorry. But does the Nokia+Microsoft deal mean that MeeGo is pretty much dead? Feb 11 17:56:06 no Feb 11 17:57:05 I don't know why but it's like I knew all along that that Nokia/Meego was DOA since the Intel partnership last year. Feb 11 17:57:09 Nokia didn't died today, it died one year ago. Feb 11 17:57:13 sjk: it may pretend being alive, but i doubt meego will be any more alive than maemo Feb 11 17:57:18 Maemo was so close to be perfect on the N900. If Nokia would have keep improving Maemo instead of starting all again from scratch with Meego, we would have plenty of great Maemo devices to choose from by now. Feb 11 17:57:18 sjk: Nope, Intel and some others still commited to MeeGo. Feb 11 17:57:33 uhsf: true Feb 11 17:58:12 i have to agree. a few more timely updates to maemo 5 wouldn't have been bad either Feb 11 17:58:37 the problem (also a bless) with intel is, that intel can be committed to pretty much anything for a decade and it can still be a loss of 10 billion usd to them... Feb 11 17:58:38 yeah, I also wonder why they didn't stay with Maemo. In fact N900 was not a "geek-only" device, Nokia made it so. Feb 11 17:59:16 Ah Feb 11 17:59:24 lol, from 2009: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/images/press/2009/08-12Elop_lg.jpg Feb 11 18:00:04 treebeen`: who is that other dude? Feb 11 18:00:35 Executive Vice President Kai Öistämö Feb 11 18:00:41 (then) Feb 11 18:00:52 http://i55.tinypic.com/2yuzgog.jpg Feb 11 18:01:05 Hm, they must have lost a lot of money on the N900, no? Compared to the iPhone and similar it's fairly difficult to learn Feb 11 18:01:18 I think ELops pay should be slashed, and that money put back into R&D Feb 11 18:01:21 GIMP-ed it in a min, It's very funny to me, I'm even thinking of a simple dart game with this picture. Feb 11 18:01:28 so torres (http://www.nokia.com/about-nokia/corporate-governance/group-executive-board/alberto-torres) quit? Feb 11 18:01:39 MrCase: yesterday. Feb 11 18:02:35 is Aari Jaaksi still about ? Feb 11 18:03:06 at hp Feb 11 18:03:09 LinuxCode: he's still working for Palm since the beginning of MeeGo. Feb 11 18:03:10 lol Feb 11 18:03:21 lucky him then, he got out Feb 11 18:03:33 who is maluka at forum.meego.com? Feb 11 18:03:40 before the ship turns into a submarine, which cant use its ballast tanks Feb 11 18:03:41 well I think he was one of the best Feb 11 18:04:08 even think that he was too good for Nokia. Feb 11 18:04:44 showed off a tablet on his blog Feb 11 18:04:54 Nokia, I havent even seen a teaser yet Feb 11 18:04:59 of a working tablet Feb 11 18:05:33 I think somebody from MeeGo should make an announcement, or at least write a blog entry about future of MeeGo and mostly about its smartphone part. Feb 11 18:05:42 oh, flop what CEO of macromedia, heh Feb 11 18:05:47 ohey! Feb 11 18:05:56 bad day Feb 11 18:06:17 Aranel: it is not like anyone will build smartphones for meego now. Feb 11 18:06:23 Richrd_, why what happened ? Feb 11 18:06:31 Aranel: and i doubt Nokia will ship the one meego phone before a w7 phone. Feb 11 18:06:36 just the announcement and 14% stock drop :P Feb 11 18:07:00 Richrd_, its ok,l elop will forfeit his pay, until the share drop has been sorted out Feb 11 18:07:08 never been here before but I'm really interested in all the MeeGo stuff and decided to come see what you guys are thinking now Feb 11 18:07:26 Intel is great Feb 11 18:07:30 thats what I think Feb 11 18:07:33 MrCase: well It's Handset UX is still under development so I think another company can replace Nokia about making devices. Feb 11 18:07:42 dont know much about them, but the project is good Feb 11 18:07:42 LinuxCode: How does Intel compare to Allah then? Feb 11 18:07:45 and Intel will be better, if it stuffs more money into meego Feb 11 18:07:52 Aranel: which company? Feb 11 18:07:57 specially as Intel is making huuuge profits Feb 11 18:08:14 RST38h, they both dont exist ? Feb 11 18:08:22 ohh wait...flaw Feb 11 18:08:24 LinuxCode: you mean intel? the company that paid like 4 billion dollars to dell for not selling AMD? Feb 11 18:08:25 lol Feb 11 18:08:29 MrCase: I also wonder. Feb 11 18:08:36 treebeen`, yeh that one Feb 11 18:09:57 sack some lawyers working for Intel Feb 11 18:10:01 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12159922# Feb 11 18:10:05 save money on cases like that Feb 11 18:10:11 pump it into meego Feb 11 18:10:23 which in turn feeds mobile support into other distros Feb 11 18:10:26 win win! Feb 11 18:12:23 ARM should support something Feb 11 18:13:41 why? :) Feb 11 18:13:45 everyone is supporting them! Feb 11 18:15:04 MrCase: everyone support intel too Feb 11 18:15:40 niala1: where are the phones with intel processors? Feb 11 18:15:55 some company should just make an x86 phone and let customer install any Linux distro Feb 11 18:16:12 all problems would be solved then Feb 11 18:16:30 except battery life but I don't care at this point Feb 11 18:16:32 MrCase: processor are not only for phone Feb 11 18:16:38 need to travel with a nuclear power plant then in order to make a clone. Feb 11 18:16:46 *make a call. Feb 11 18:17:33 MrCase: windows exist for desktop or laptop intel/amd and intel support meego .... why ? Feb 11 18:18:30 niala1: because they have to. imagine a bazillion of ARM/Nvidia based netbooks/tablets running android/webos + apple. Feb 11 18:18:30 MrCase: intel can sell only processor like arm Feb 11 18:19:38 they support only because they want a 'store like' Feb 11 18:19:48 not for the fun Feb 11 18:19:50 Aranel, it's still steaming ahead!!! Feb 11 18:20:34 huh? Feb 11 18:21:57 Linux is big business. No reason why Intel should not be active Feb 11 18:22:03 with no qt no sdk for a store like Feb 11 18:22:40 why he should? what about amd and meego? work is already starting? Feb 11 18:22:44 http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nokia-meego-netbook-stephen-elop,12169.html, Nokia drops Meego. Feb 11 18:23:37 it is a problem now. why should anyone start developing apps with Qt when symbian will be dead in a year and there will be maybe one phone for meego in 2011? Feb 11 18:23:39 Bad day for openness: http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20031525-264.html Feb 11 18:24:46 there is still a community OBS and any netbook UX or other variations would be welcome on there Feb 11 18:27:33 * auke reads the news, and the irc discussions, and the mailinglists Feb 11 18:28:01 auke: I hope you got a lot of coffee at hand, it is a long read. Feb 11 18:28:05 fendel: hmm, something like that was to be expected, of course now that google dropped h.264 from chrome they have reason to worry Feb 11 18:28:14 MrCase, try to keep positive thinking Feb 11 18:28:17 * auke declines to read Dohm's thread Feb 11 18:28:19 auke: what, you didn't get up at 2am to watch it like I did :) Feb 11 18:28:31 i think meego is great and will survive Feb 11 18:28:32 DawnFoster: haha, hell no - my kids wore me out - I need my sleep Feb 11 18:28:35 DawnFoster: Still awake? How are you holding up? :) Feb 11 18:28:41 lbt: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nokia-meego-netbook-stephen-elop,12169.html - so this is just bullcrap? Feb 11 18:29:54 X-Fade: I got a quick nap between 6:30am and 8:30 so I'm doing well Feb 11 18:30:02 lots of tea helps :) Feb 11 18:30:04 MrCase: no Feb 11 18:30:09 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=942876&postcount=1137 Feb 11 18:30:10 * X-Fade decided to just continue working on MeeGo Apps and not let this get to me. Feb 11 18:30:13 MrCase: it's just not the whole story :) Feb 11 18:30:23 click it for instant epic lulz. Feb 11 18:30:42 Dawn: Are you staying awake to watch this whole elopocalypse, or are there other reasons? :) Feb 11 18:31:04 what's with this "nokia=meego" talk? Feb 11 18:31:04 RST38h: I got *up* this morning at 2am to watch the webcasts Feb 11 18:31:15 RST38h: dedication Feb 11 18:31:18 Dawn: urgh Feb 11 18:31:25 so I could hang out with all of you on IRC Feb 11 18:31:41 Dawn: and pretty morbid webcasts too. At least they came at 13:00 over here. Feb 11 18:31:51 Nap + Caffeine = happy Dawn Feb 11 18:31:56 in other news: http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/02/11/133654860/no-more-windmills-activision-kills-guitar-hero Feb 11 18:32:02 ;-) Feb 11 18:32:19 Myrrti: Old news! Feb 11 18:32:22 I never thought it'd come to this, but help help help, save us Intel, you're our last hope! :) Feb 11 18:32:28 (like 2 days :)) Feb 11 18:32:46 RST38h: and my life is so messed up on the personal level that I really couldn't care less Feb 11 18:33:04 * auke declares that he is .... working as usual Feb 11 18:33:06 Myrtti: all shit sooner or later blows off Feb 11 18:33:18 Myrtti: or becomes irrelevant. Feb 11 18:33:42 RST38h: or is buried, but not forgotten. Feb 11 18:33:42 auke: at least you still have a job. i feel sorry for the guys who got axed because of this. Feb 11 18:33:50 auke: you're not alone :) Feb 11 18:34:12 TSCHAKeee: I have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't hear about people losing their jobs, and, that would suck. Feb 11 18:34:14 Myrrti: We will all get buried eventually, can't do much about it Feb 11 18:34:22 TSCHAKeee: afaik noone got axed so far, except Torres resigning Feb 11 18:34:29 i can't open qtcreatop today... maybe tomorrow........ Feb 11 18:34:32 TSCHAKeee: people high likely will though Feb 11 18:34:46 Stskeepz: A lot of people will get axed, just not today. Feb 11 18:35:06 auke: thumbs up on boardname latest impl with uname Feb 11 18:35:13 RST38h: moving on, I've cried enough today Feb 11 18:35:16 well if they had before the move would have been obvious before the presentation Feb 11 18:35:19 I hear 20,000 jobs to go... so yeah... Feb 11 18:35:21 Long term clearly a lot of linux positions at Nokia are going away. That's not quite the same thing as a layoff, though it's still bad news. Feb 11 18:35:22 Stskeepz: going to close on that today, and merge to trunk Feb 11 18:35:23 Myrtti: *hugs* Feb 11 18:35:28 Hope the community start looking into starting new companies Feb 11 18:35:45 auke: cool Feb 11 18:35:55 lbt, i wonder how 20 000 in finland are going Feb 11 18:36:08 iekku: unlikely to be .fi only Feb 11 18:36:13 iekku: i am thinking positively. Feb 11 18:36:16 iekku: media quoting wrong numbers Feb 11 18:36:21 Nokia have a global ecosystem of employees and suppliers than can start new companies and opportunities. Feb 11 18:36:29 Myrtti, i think that too Feb 11 18:36:48 iekku: will develop something for the n900 while waiting for a quadcore android phone with a proper keyboard. Feb 11 18:36:51 :P Feb 11 18:37:03 lbt: 20k sounds very low to me. Nokia is going trough a revolution. Feb 11 18:37:15 super sad to hear the news. :( Feb 11 18:37:19 MrCase, that's the spirit! Feb 11 18:37:25 shocking Feb 11 18:39:07 the announcement does not sound very visionary unless WP7 is just kept for transition time Feb 11 18:39:31 It is kept until the finns figure out it does not sell. Feb 11 18:39:48 like all the other windows phones that didn't sell. Feb 11 18:39:49 And if you do not believe it does notsell, check the 2010 sales figures Feb 11 18:40:10 lbt: Nokia employs only around 20 000 people in Finland. Feb 11 18:40:46 hence "unlikely to be .fi only" Feb 11 18:40:50 and no Qt really makes sense Feb 11 18:41:01 ehem Feb 11 18:41:26 if nokia sell qt to intel may be a hope!! lol Feb 11 18:41:40 lbt: And do you have any reliable source that Nokia will shrink by that many people? Feb 11 18:41:46 bunk: no Feb 11 18:42:12 oh, I suspect it all makes sense ... but the mindset and ones personal financial situation probably have a huge impact Feb 11 18:42:33 in the news they said 20 000 in finland Feb 11 18:42:57 iekku: Nokia *has* around 20 000 people in Finland. Feb 11 18:42:59 iekku: don't forget knock-on job losses Feb 11 18:43:05 so, it just can't be, only rumours Feb 11 18:43:26 Elop did say they'd consulted .fi govt Feb 11 18:43:55 so they did when they ended jyvskyl, there were ~360 people Feb 11 18:44:40 and once again, only i can say, is meego!=nokia and i think meego goes on, with or without nokia Feb 11 18:44:59 +1 iekku Feb 11 18:45:03 just nokia gives meego bad press with this move Feb 11 18:45:09 http://apidocs.meego.com/1.1/platform/html/index.html advertissment make sense today Feb 11 18:46:03 Good afternoon, day or night, depends on place Feb 11 18:46:04 Qt runs on windows mobile right? Feb 11 18:46:09 yes Feb 11 18:46:13 a lot better than it runs on android Feb 11 18:46:29 so that quote "we didn't think we would be able to differentiate as easily on android" Feb 11 18:46:39 maybe they will write a UX for WP7 using Qt :) Feb 11 18:46:51 just get an abstraction layer Feb 11 18:47:00 Qt *is* an abstraction layer Feb 11 18:47:11 sure Feb 11 18:47:12 ali1234: and since it's in Qt it should be easy to replace WP7 with e.g. MeeGo :) Feb 11 18:47:15 porting it to a new OS is not easy though Feb 11 18:47:23 sebsauer: exactly Feb 11 18:47:36 but Qt port to windows mobile is a lot further forward than android Feb 11 18:47:39 was this already here: http://blog.laptopmag.com/intel-were-not-blinking-on-meego Feb 11 18:47:41 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-notifies-developers-that-qt-is-out-for-windows-phone-devel/ Feb 11 18:47:43 just a thought anyway Feb 11 18:47:44 that is what I thought too Feb 11 18:47:46 sorry to disappoint you Feb 11 18:47:56 ali1234: no since it already works fine on WP7 Feb 11 18:48:00 i think this is more important part than nokia news Feb 11 18:48:44 Can't imagine MS would want to allow a portable (!?!) API for app development. And it's not like Nokia was negotiating from a position of strength... Feb 11 18:48:50 XNA on nokia phones *puke* Feb 11 18:48:53 EdLin: well, screw it then Feb 11 18:49:03 Then again, WP7 ks sort of tanking, so they were both desperate I guess. Feb 11 18:49:15 from Vic Gundotra (VP Android at Google) : “Two turkeys do not make an Eagle” Feb 11 18:49:16 EdLin: your source is wrong. Feb 11 18:49:20 Hi everybody, how can I get access to OBS ? Feb 11 18:49:39 EdLin: since he assumes that one developer-tool exlucludes the other what never was the case Feb 11 18:49:49 pvaz: Which one? Feb 11 18:49:52 sebsauer: is this source wrong too? http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/02/11/letter-to-developers?sf1066337=1& Feb 11 18:49:55 pvaz, ping vgrade or X-Fade Feb 11 18:50:05 ping vgrade Feb 11 18:50:17 sorry, newbie, howto ping ? Feb 11 18:50:18 smoku: s/vgrade/lbt/ Feb 11 18:50:34 X-Fade, ouch. yes. sorry ;-) Feb 11 18:50:34 EdLin: no, it is correct and in the "The Qt ecosystem" it even explicit says that Qt will target a new decide now: WP7 Feb 11 18:50:35 mmm? Feb 11 18:50:37 andyross: Nokia produces twice as many phones as the second-biggest producer - that is a huge strength Feb 11 18:50:44 device Feb 11 18:50:45 pvaz, ping lbt or X-Fade :) Feb 11 18:50:53 ah Feb 11 18:51:31 Qt does not run on WP7. Feb 11 18:51:34 sebsauer: where does it say that sebsauer? It says it will continue on "for symbian", which will be phased out by 2012. Feb 11 18:51:35 pvaz: opensource app development? Feb 11 18:51:35 would need to port it. Feb 11 18:51:40 MrCase: it does and very fine Feb 11 18:51:49 yes, opensource app development Feb 11 18:51:54 bunk: no, there are no plans for Qt for WP7 Feb 11 18:51:59 EdLin: the last sentence in the "The Qt ecosystem" section Feb 11 18:52:05 right, i'm done being shellshocked Feb 11 18:52:06 bunk: the device being referred to is the Meego device Feb 11 18:52:08 sebsauer: erm. you ported it yourself? Feb 11 18:52:31 MrCase: no, Qt works fine on Windows CE since a very long-time and WP7 is WinCE6+Silverlight Feb 11 18:52:32 sebsauer: "that device" refers to the one meego device, you have a reading comprehension problem. Feb 11 18:52:34 now what about aavamobile ? Feb 11 18:52:34 pvaz: meego username? Feb 11 18:52:38 sebsauer: no. Feb 11 18:52:44 sebsauer: it is not. Feb 11 18:53:02 lbt, username is pvaz Feb 11 18:53:06 niala1: aava's a developer board, essentially Feb 11 18:53:09 kinda like omap blaze etc Feb 11 18:53:15 mmm how long ago did you register pvaz Feb 11 18:53:24 < 1hr ? Feb 11 18:53:27 EdLin: no, it does not. You should read carefully. It says "hough our plans for MeeGo have been adapted in light of our planned partnership with Microsoft, that device will be compatible with applications developed within the Qt framework and so give Qt developers a further device to target. " Feb 11 18:53:29 less, yes Feb 11 18:53:37 Stskeeps: may be they can take a opportunity ? Feb 11 18:53:45 ping me again in 7 mins Feb 11 18:53:59 sebsauer: yes, they are releasing one device on meego. That sentence is about meego, not about wp7. Feb 11 18:54:12 sebsauer: "that device" clearly refers to "Extending the scope of Qt further will be our first MeeGo-related open source device" Feb 11 18:54:17 EdLin: hmmmm.... probably you are right Feb 11 18:54:19 sebsauer: the apps on wp7 run in a CLI, is there a port of Qt for .NET? Feb 11 18:54:19 I have to leave now to pick up my kids from school, I will leave irc open, and will try to find you later, ok ? Feb 11 18:54:26 EdLin: but that means that MeeGo WILL continue, right? Feb 11 18:54:31 pvaz: yep .. np Feb 11 18:54:41 sebsauer: after that one device, elop is scrapping the meego team. Feb 11 18:54:48 EdLin: they aren't saying that anywhere though Feb 11 18:54:50 talk later, thanks Feb 11 18:54:59 sebsauer: intel says they will continue developing meego though. Feb 11 18:55:40 sorry i m not a great codder, but maybe if the only meego phone is better than the win7p they drop win7p :p Feb 11 18:56:05 me i can't do a great UI :( Feb 11 18:56:13 EdLin: the roadmap stated that long-term R/D will spend about 1/3 of the current resources on Meego Feb 11 18:56:32 current meego resources? Feb 11 18:56:32 jonnor: link? Feb 11 18:56:38 jonnor: Whomever you were answering to, it wasn't me. Feb 11 18:56:46 EdLin: "after that one device" <= what's your source for that? Also I am still not convinced that Qt will not be on WP7. Have you a source for that too? Feb 11 18:56:57 sebsauer: that one is mentioned in blogs and in the capital markets day Feb 11 18:57:00 sebsauer: a second ago you said it already runs on it. Feb 11 18:57:01 which imho , is suicide Feb 11 18:57:19 EdLin: http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/rip-symbian/ Feb 11 18:57:22 MrCase: it does but run on CE Feb 11 18:57:36 CE is dead, WP7 is a different design. Feb 11 18:57:41 sebsauer: Elop explicitly said in response to a question about Qt that it would not be made available for WP7 Feb 11 18:57:46 MrCase: no, Wp7 is CE. Feb 11 18:58:02 fun times Feb 11 18:58:05 Mek: oha, does there exist a source? Feb 11 18:58:12 jonnor: that says they'll continue to do R&D on mobile platforms, not on meego, which they are throwing in the towel on. Feb 11 18:58:15 MrCase: in fact, the current versions of Wp7 run into the same version of Ce WM6.5 does because the newer version of CE was a disaster. Feb 11 18:58:21 how much as nokia paid for Qt? Feb 11 18:58:23 sebsauer: not sure if the webcast is available somewhere... Feb 11 18:58:23 so they willl reduce the total R&D? Feb 11 18:58:24 hmm, I wonder when the map-business will be given to ms. But that make need some more time, sold out ot ms just begins Feb 11 18:58:28 EdLin: the green bit is Meego Feb 11 18:58:45 Mek: that indeed sounds like bad news :-( Feb 11 18:59:04 jonnor: ah, I see it now. Correct, they did say, however, they have no plans for more than one meego phone.... Feb 11 18:59:05 Would be nice if Red Hat, Intel, and Canonical could hire some of the MeeGo/Qt people Feb 11 18:59:16 EdLin: in 2011 :) Feb 11 18:59:35 or novell Feb 11 18:59:39 well suse Feb 11 18:59:44 jonnor: 2012 is a long way off, it is being put in the same position as maemo, one experimental device every few years. Feb 11 18:59:51 EdLin: that's assuming their one meego "device" actually is a phone... Feb 11 18:59:51 It is a lot of good stuff going on: pads, Gnome3, KDE 4.6/4.7, MeeGo, and so on Feb 11 19:00:07 fendel: meego can live on desktop/laptop with only us, but no on handset. i believe Feb 11 19:00:10 ali1234: true, intel does say they'll continue to spend on meego. Feb 11 19:00:11 also, they actually say "Meego related" device Feb 11 19:00:18 not "Meego" Feb 11 19:00:27 javispedro: i stand corrected, thank you. not sure about running pure c++ on it though. Feb 11 19:00:29 EdLin: potentially Feb 11 19:00:36 well so meego core plus different UX? Feb 11 19:00:37 One mad leader down, one more to go... Feb 11 19:00:57 niala1: The most important in short term is to make sure that as many projects get finished as possible Feb 11 19:01:00 Will Elop survive, will there be much left of Nokia by the time he gets the push... Feb 11 19:01:04 MrCase: nothing save for "microsoft-selected third parties" (and of course microsoft themselves, their own apps are c++) Feb 11 19:01:22 Milhouse: he'll sell what's left to micrsoft, like he did with macromedia and adobe... Feb 11 19:01:24 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12427680 "two turkeys don't make an eagle" Feb 11 19:01:35 Google, Apple, ARM all up - Nokia 15% down Feb 11 19:01:37 i like the turkey picture Feb 11 19:01:47 source re Qt will not be on WP7; http://www.appscout.com/2011/02/nokia_no_qt_for_windows_phone.php Feb 11 19:02:27 ali1234: I don't think Microsoft is interested in buying a giant mobile phone manufactorer. Feb 11 19:02:46 ali1234: they are, however, happy to crush them the way they did with Palm. Feb 11 19:02:55 :-) Feb 11 19:04:05 microsoft... lol Feb 11 19:04:09 microsoft will have a big party this week end i suppose, with champagne and toasts Feb 11 19:04:57 GAN900: http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/02/linux-foundation-meego-nokia-jim-zemlin/ Feb 11 19:05:08 niala1: They should. They do deserve it. Great work on Microsofts behalf Feb 11 19:05:11 GAN900: now I understand what you meant =) Feb 11 19:06:22 well, nokia announced also which is the future of meego? Feb 11 19:06:48 hirabayashitaro, it's not something nokia can decide Feb 11 19:07:35 hirabayashitaro: meego continue without nokia... more excactly he s "promise" just a meego phone Feb 11 19:07:47 iekku: but they can decide how many founds to give to the project, which is not irrelevant at all Feb 11 19:08:09 right Feb 11 19:08:26 aren't you amazed by the extreme stupidity of Nokia's leaders? I mean 15% market shares drop in a few hours, I don't know anything about market shares, but even I could've predicted this easily. why so much stupidity is beyond my understanding. Feb 11 19:08:40 http://wmpoweruser.com/bad-news-for-nokia-developers-nokia-dumps-qt-for-wp7/ Feb 11 19:09:05 "We reserve the right to introduce tablets using other platforms, including ones we may be working on internally," he (elop) said. Feb 11 19:09:26 reserve the right? Feb 11 19:09:30 ... Feb 11 19:09:33 sigh Feb 11 19:09:48 meh... I'm just hoping to keep a job at this point ;) Feb 11 19:10:11 as, no doubt, are many others... Feb 11 19:10:29 lbt: best of luck to you all Feb 11 19:10:41 i am a little curious how meego-nokia will look internally now Feb 11 19:10:45 uhsf: Don't bother about short-term tock value changes. It was an interesting change, and it will take a few years to see if it was good or bad for Nokia. Feb 11 19:10:47 yap best wishes Feb 11 19:11:01 lbt: elop is planning on cutting "over a thousand jobs" so polish your resume and look elsewhere. Feb 11 19:11:04 bunk: no way Feb 11 19:11:16 EdLin: that's easy by cutting symbian, though Feb 11 19:11:16 :P Feb 11 19:11:39 Stskeeps: he's not exactly increasing the size of meego spending either. Feb 11 19:11:53 elop would be nuts to cut from meego Feb 11 19:12:09 EdLin: of course, but there's definately cuts to be made to center qt-symbian-meego apps Feb 11 19:12:10 hirabayashitaro: Why not? Feb 11 19:12:26 hena: he has said he's going to cut it by 2/3rds already. Feb 11 19:12:53 if you cut symbian, and meego is turned into a "project", the motivation for qt and meego developers will go through the floor... Feb 11 19:12:56 the dude responsible for meego quit yesterday. Feb 11 19:12:59 bunk: after a public event like this shares are supposed to grow in any case Feb 11 19:13:03 basically, motivation will go to shit Feb 11 19:13:11 along with morale Feb 11 19:13:12 Edlin: which is a really good investment in the future... Feb 11 19:13:31 d12n: they are gutting R&D, what future? Feb 11 19:13:35 bunk: two failures toghter don't form a success Feb 11 19:13:51 any idea what mwc will bring? Feb 11 19:13:51 sorry that was sarcasm Feb 11 19:13:55 hirabayashitaro: Such short-term value changes are not very meaningful. Feb 11 19:14:13 -15.81% Feb 11 19:14:24 d12n: i thought it might be, but wasn't sure. :) Feb 11 19:14:31 Milhouse: you re right :( Feb 11 19:14:40 EdLin: it was ;-) Feb 11 19:14:55 Milhouse: morale is in the toilet, a thousand nokia employees walked out in protest. Feb 11 19:14:57 MrCase: wow ... I guess we're not the only ones thinking it's a dipshit move Feb 11 19:15:06 MrCase: saw it at 16 before Feb 11 19:15:31 guest7: more promises that nobody will believe, and no new products to buy would be my guess Feb 11 19:15:38 Who is the person "in charge of Meego" that quit yesterday? Feb 11 19:15:50 hirabayashitaro: M$ has a smartphone operating system but no devices, and N is by far the biggest device manufacturer in the world but is behind on having a competitive software platform. Feb 11 19:16:01 blizzow: Alberto Torres Feb 11 19:16:04 blizzow: http://www.nokia.com/about-nokia/corporate-governance/group-executive-board/alberto-torres Feb 11 19:16:06 blizzow: MeeGo in Nokia Feb 11 19:16:10 @milhouse: yep... sounds like a realistic guess :/ Feb 11 19:16:13 oh Feb 11 19:16:16 they took the page down Feb 11 19:16:17 ... Feb 11 19:16:22 evening mwichmann Feb 11 19:16:33 hi Feb 11 19:16:38 still curious about what intel is up to now Feb 11 19:16:43 honestly, after all the changes in strategy over the last few years, and now this, you'd have to be mad to bet serious investment on anything nokia are involved with. Feb 11 19:16:52 guest7: meego goes on, it seems Feb 11 19:16:54 guest7: buying eyedrops Feb 11 19:17:04 since apparently they're not blinking ;) Feb 11 19:17:05 hehe Feb 11 19:17:05 nightwalk: larne? Feb 11 19:17:31 intel has to reflect? Feb 11 19:17:38 ohh, I don't know how to feel right now.. I'm just so sad.. Feb 11 19:17:48 MeeGo needs a new big name parter in the mobile space... Feb 11 19:17:49 bunk: there are plenty of things that ms does't have Feb 11 19:18:03 Positive view: The Nokia move shows how much mobile phones are becoming a competitive mass produced market. This is a market where things will change and opportunities exist. Feb 11 19:18:13 hirabayashitaro: I'm more puzzled how N changes it's strategy every 1-2 years instead of doing one thing consequently. Feb 11 19:18:14 Milhouse: +1 Feb 11 19:18:30 And with a bit of luck, they'll make a success out of MeeGo while Nokia fails miserably with WP7. Feb 11 19:18:33 http://www.worldnewsmania.com/2011/02/11/technology/nokia-windows-phone-will-not-support-qt-symbian-developers-left-high-and-dry/ Feb 11 19:18:41 So is there any good hardware out there for a qwerty phone? Feb 11 19:18:52 There are one other huge potential: Intel is still not a major player on mobile phones. Intel is involved in MeeGo and Linux Feb 11 19:18:54 blizzow: milestone 2? Feb 11 19:19:04 blizzow: cam might suck a bit. Feb 11 19:19:10 silverlight only, that's stupid Feb 11 19:19:27 and XNA. Feb 11 19:19:31 does XNA support opengl? Feb 11 19:19:31 this whole "abandon Qt" just demonstrates lovely how this new strategy is a flying duck Feb 11 19:19:40 MrCase: DirectX Feb 11 19:19:41 Qt made sense for nokia Feb 11 19:19:41 they just alienated whatever developer community they had Feb 11 19:19:42 :P Feb 11 19:19:50 funny, I thougght I heard that silverlight was being discontinued last week. maybe I was dreaming... Feb 11 19:19:53 that also removes any upgrade-path Feb 11 19:19:55 Qt made sense for all the partners Feb 11 19:20:00 Stskeeps, Seems like that has been the main Nokia strategy the last year Feb 11 19:20:03 and now it's all destroyed Feb 11 19:20:19 Qt made perfect sense for Nokia, that's also why this is such an incredible turn around Feb 11 19:20:22 Milhouse: so one would need some kind of 3d engine that runs on XNA and opengl in order to be able to deploy the mobile apps on major mobile OSes. Feb 11 19:20:37 not sure such thing exists for cheap money. Feb 11 19:20:57 looks like I'm looking for an N900 to baby for a while. Feb 11 19:21:06 hirabayashitaro: Did MeeGo or Symbian offer a better mid-term and long-term alternative to N? And having M$ as a partner can bring advantages. Feb 11 19:21:07 * Chani is hearing more positive things about qt, but, no details... Feb 11 19:21:09 buy mine Feb 11 19:21:29 Commondore 64, Delphi and now Qt. Good things die first :-( Feb 11 19:21:42 Qt is not dead Feb 11 19:21:44 yes and amiga Feb 11 19:21:47 bunk: Meego with a Dalvik VM was the route for me. Feb 11 19:22:01 sebsauer: C64? That one sold for a long time. Amiga did well after that...? Feb 11 19:22:07 bunk: Nokia could have gone to Microsoft for Bing (search) and advertising, without selling out on their entire platform... Feb 11 19:22:13 yeah, Amiga was great too Feb 11 19:22:15 sebsauer: Amiga messed up Feb 11 19:22:28 this decision today just shows a complete lack of ambition./ Feb 11 19:22:39 c64 wasn't GPL'ed Feb 11 19:22:52 amiga ---> amigo ---> meego Feb 11 19:22:54 * TSCHAKeee is an ex Amiga, and NeXT developer. Feb 11 19:22:57 A small Canadian firm are doing exactly what Nokia can't, for crying out loud (RIM). Feb 11 19:23:11 TSCHAKeee: NeXT isn't dead, it's OS X. Feb 11 19:23:12 niala1: :D Feb 11 19:23:20 EdLin: I know. Feb 11 19:23:33 Milhouse: :-) Nokia management can't. That is the problem Feb 11 19:23:48 EdLin: well because there was a vision which was kept up Feb 11 19:23:57 (not by apple though) Feb 11 19:24:32 d12n: Apple was bought out by NeXT, not the other way around. ;-) Feb 11 19:24:50 I hope as many ex-Nokia employees as possible start new companies Feb 11 19:24:56 EdLin: I know but the vision did not come from Apple Feb 11 19:24:56 now that Nokia's dead, my main concern is about the future of open mobile devices. what company could make any interesting hardware in a foreseable future? Feb 11 19:24:59 EdLin: Apple bought Jobs and got NeXT as a freebie Feb 11 19:25:10 d12n: it came from Steve Jobs, which is Apple. Feb 11 19:25:15 fendel: True, but I honestly thought they had a winning plan - which they've just torn up. Feb 11 19:25:16 nope Feb 11 19:25:19 next win7p/nokia phone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CT2 Feb 11 19:25:48 EdLin: he "was quitted" then Feb 11 19:25:52 uhsf: Some unknown Chinese company. They push what ever all the time. It will be "white box" phones from some of those factories. Feb 11 19:25:55 Milhouse: "Nokia's content and application store would be integrated with Microsoft Marketplace for a more compelling consumer experience." - N failed on doing that themselves, and if the two companies get that up and running together that's an interesting option. Feb 11 19:26:19 Milhouse: I had hope myself Feb 11 19:26:20 d12n: I'm aware of that, but Apple is Steve Jobs - without him, it was a zombie of a company. ;-) Feb 11 19:26:22 Was listening to today's the not so slim nokia CEO's speech and had the irresistible impulse to buy an iPhone.. Where to buy one? Feb 11 19:26:44 EdLin: yes .... isn't that a message? Feb 11 19:26:54 Milhouse: That's the part of the business where the huge profit is. Feb 11 19:27:03 hirabayashitaro: so you heard nokia announce using a closed platform, and you want to buy a diffferent closed platform? Feb 11 19:27:19 bunk: where, in an app store? Feb 11 19:27:27 Milhouse: yes Feb 11 19:27:29 (Genivi) Intel, BMW, General Motors, PSA Peugeot, Magneti Marelli and Bosch agreed on meego as a reference platform.. so meego's future might is the in-vehicle branch... Feb 11 19:27:36 EdLin: Sure, so I can at least have a working japanese input Feb 11 19:27:53 would be horrible though.. cant afford a bmw just to use open source os ;) Feb 11 19:28:05 guest7: meego is going to be continued to be developed by intel, and it may very well be only for non-mobile platforms by the looks of it. Feb 11 19:28:07 bunk: maybe, but Ovi Store was gaining in downloads/day quite nicely. Things actually looked to be on the up. Feb 11 19:28:13 guest7: for now that is just promises Feb 11 19:28:13 well, I guess cars are mobile.... Feb 11 19:28:25 guest7: The different MeeGo branches help the others Feb 11 19:28:34 i see nothing from amd, peugeot, bmw etc.... Feb 11 19:28:43 EdLin: Something that I'm not supposed to have in the near future... Or maybe I can consider android... Feb 11 19:29:02 DawnFoster: when was next TSG planned? Feb 11 19:29:07 EdLin: I expect cars to have sim-cards, ipv6, LTE, GPS, and so on Feb 11 19:29:13 wordw words words only words they use meego ONLY if the community do the work Feb 11 19:29:22 bunk: the problems should have been manageable... instead they've just thrown everything out, baby and bathwater. this isn't about eco-systems though, being realistic this is about reducing costs and head-count at Nokia. Feb 11 19:29:24 hirabayashitaro: I'm enjoying my HTC HD2, it runs meego, android, wp7 (!), ubuntu, or wp6.5. Feb 11 19:29:29 er, wm6.5 Feb 11 19:29:37 DawnFoster: or at least, the initially planned one Feb 11 19:29:45 niala1: They will probably sponsored targeted projects Feb 11 19:29:59 Stskeeps: plans for official announcments to community ? Feb 11 19:30:01 Milhouse: AS I already said, the bad thing I see about N is that they change their strategy every 1-2 years. Feb 11 19:30:10 EdLin: Sure you're right. Feb 11 19:30:14 sivang: no, just curious Feb 11 19:30:18 Stskeeps: 2 weeks - 2 days Feb 11 19:30:22 Stskeeps: okay. Feb 11 19:30:24 lbt: ok Feb 11 19:30:32 hirabayashitaro: I'm thinking of getting an n900 to replace my n810 if prices drop a lot. Feb 11 19:30:45 Jaffa, X-Fade and I had a proposal.... Feb 11 19:30:45 which they probably will, already down to $350. Feb 11 19:31:07 lbt: true, life must go on Feb 11 19:31:11 EdLin: want mine? Just joking... maybe Feb 11 19:31:27 Nokia stopped selling N900 in Finland, gone from their webshop Feb 11 19:31:27 hirabayashitaro: does yours have t-mobile us bands? :-) Feb 11 19:31:32 What is the state of MeeGo on N900? Feb 11 19:31:38 Stskeeps: we don't have one on the schedule right now. This week was cancelled, next week is MWC and then imad is on vacation for 2 weeks Feb 11 19:31:48 lbt: ? Feb 11 19:32:03 DawnFoster: alright Feb 11 19:32:26 @fendel: works afaik Feb 11 19:32:26 EdLin: I suppose it hasn't... Don't know. I'm not Amrican tough Feb 11 19:33:07 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 Feb 11 19:33:14 hirabayashitaro: it's called AWS, 1700 up, 2100 down, although these are also european bands, it uses them in a different way. Feb 11 19:33:33 DawnFoster: but surely some official messages to community will come sooner than this time frame? Feb 11 19:34:00 sivang: technically 'only' meego needs to worry about is status of their upstreams Feb 11 19:34:18 that's Qt and the individual components nokia contributes - as well as if the people nominated in the MeeGo project continues Feb 11 19:34:35 sivang: I think everyone is still regrouping right now - I'm hoping that we'll have more communication next week, but no promises Feb 11 19:34:55 sivang: I don't get to decide when to communicate something big like this ;) Feb 11 19:34:58 Stskeeps: meego also is hardware, and without anyone making hardware for it, it'd be like openmoko. Feb 11 19:34:59 Stskeeps: Nokia is not supporting qt anymore? Feb 11 19:35:04 At least let nokia show something at thw MWC! Feb 11 19:35:05 hirabayashitaro: didn't say that Feb 11 19:35:15 sivang: I have asked that we get something out to the community as soon as we can Feb 11 19:35:19 Stskeeps: Just asking... Feb 11 19:35:22 Even if it is only a mock N8 with WP7 :) Feb 11 19:35:26 DawnFoster: thank you I appreciate it Feb 11 19:35:48 Stskeeps: sure, what about developer offering that has been driven jointly , websites , events etc? Feb 11 19:35:59 * marsje wonders how/when/if he will ever get an open phone... Feb 11 19:36:11 hirabayashitaro: meego and qt migrate to research ... not good next stage it's trash Feb 11 19:36:15 DawnFoster: in more light news, do we have a birthday party for MeeGo announcement planned? ;) Feb 11 19:36:17 lbt: a com Feb 11 19:36:18 for nokia Feb 11 19:36:19 (15th) Feb 11 19:36:25 Stskeeps: :) Feb 11 19:36:45 Stskeeps: not that I know of, but we should do something Feb 11 19:36:47 hehe Feb 11 19:36:59 been one heck of a year :) Feb 11 19:36:59 Stskeeps: wondering how to do virtual cake and candles :) Feb 11 19:37:07 May I ask a technical question about a problem I have with MeeGo on a device? Feb 11 19:37:12 we need a meegon cake! Feb 11 19:37:14 Stskeeps: you can say that again Feb 11 19:37:16 * niala1 offer beer and weeds for all Feb 11 19:37:21 niala1: I see, just I supposed Feb 11 19:37:25 bunk: gladly Feb 11 19:38:00 No one involved with intel who knows which is the position from that side? Feb 11 19:38:24 -15.99% again. Feb 11 19:38:28 hirabayashitaro: so far meego is going ahead afaik Feb 11 19:38:39 i hope it drops to -80% and someone takes over. Feb 11 19:38:56 MrCase: it will be gates. Feb 11 19:39:04 hirabayashitaro: intel must be chocked too, i suppose they have a meeting and decide for the futur Feb 11 19:39:31 * marsje wonders when Microsoft will buy Nokia Feb 11 19:39:40 Stskeeps: why wouldn't it go on? besides if all commercial players leave, we can rename it to mer :) Feb 11 19:39:53 Can anyone give me a hint what might be going wrong when uxlaunch does not start the applications in /etc/xdg/autostart ? Feb 11 19:39:56 hirabayashitaro, There's an Intel statement, basically saying it's business as usual for them. Feb 11 19:40:05 bunk: are you on NFS? Feb 11 19:40:07 now wait for windows7 car and tv and plane!!! LOL Feb 11 19:40:13 Stskeeps: yes Feb 11 19:40:17 hirabayashitaro: Intel is moving full steam ahead on MeeGo. We still need to digest all of this news, of course. Feb 11 19:40:25 bunk: there's a bug related to that i believe Feb 11 19:40:31 niala1: that's not funny but scary Feb 11 19:40:36 windows tv 7 ;) Feb 11 19:40:36 bunk: hang on Feb 11 19:40:45 timoph++ and put it back to deb? :) Feb 11 19:40:54 Stskeeps: sure :) Feb 11 19:41:06 sebsauer: :) Feb 11 19:41:18 sivang: ew Feb 11 19:41:21 DawnFoster: good to hear. I know I'll contribute to it whatever I can Feb 11 19:41:35 Stskeeps: kidding sorry bad day for that :) Feb 11 19:41:50 the thing that is really nice about working with and contributing to MeeGo is that it is -fun-. Feb 11 19:42:05 DawnFoster: you know if other than intel have already submit works for meego? or just promises for now ? Feb 11 19:42:09 for us it is love not just work or loss of work :) Feb 11 19:42:13 DawnFoster, I don't suppose there's any public info about that Atom-based phone they mentioned, is there? Feb 11 19:42:28 give the girl a break lol Feb 11 19:42:40 :) Feb 11 19:42:46 :) Feb 11 19:42:55 well.. gotta go back to work now.. since i have to save up more money than expected for my meego mobile device... still have to figure out how to answer calls in a meeting with a bmw 5 though... gl guys Feb 11 19:42:59 Im sure they will make an announcement soon Feb 11 19:43:02 i will remember this day a long time Feb 11 19:43:04 dwd: not yet, Intel product announcements are made by different teams at Intel. Feb 11 19:43:08 ohh wait its Friday Feb 11 19:43:11 will meego participate in gsoc this year? Feb 11 19:43:26 Monday! Feb 11 19:43:30 bluelf: we're starting to look at gsoc Feb 11 19:44:07 DawnFoster, you should, we are Feb 11 19:44:14 DawnFoster: count me in for mentoring :) Feb 11 19:44:14 looking for projects atm Feb 11 19:44:45 qt's open governance hasn't advanced enough to allow me to apply qt this year Feb 11 19:44:55 thiago_home: :/ Feb 11 19:45:01 hey thiago_home Feb 11 19:45:02 DawnFoster, Thanks. By the way, I appreciate the fact you've been here since the wee small hours. Feb 11 19:45:03 Stskeeps: awesome, thanks! Feb 11 19:45:20 DawnFoster: Same here! Feb 11 19:45:24 no one here? Feb 11 19:45:27 if ya dump a site up now, could have some projects to submit soon Feb 11 19:45:30 DawnFoster: with Python speciality Feb 11 19:45:35 dwd / sivang: thanks. I like to at least be here for the community - I can sleep later :) Feb 11 19:45:48 DawnFoster, lol, thats dedication! Feb 11 19:45:52 DawnFoster: you are too cute, really:) Feb 11 19:46:04 DawnFoster: I hope we can play wearwoulves again soon Feb 11 19:46:10 awww, thanks :) Feb 11 19:46:11 Has there been any contact from Nokia to the MeeGo community? Feb 11 19:46:18 I would like to work in meego . Can you point me to some documentation that will help me get started with it ? Feb 11 19:46:28 dwd, apart from two fingers ? Feb 11 19:46:30 ;-p Feb 11 19:46:36 bluelf: welcome - we have a how to contribute to meego :) Feb 11 19:46:38 bluelf: hang on Feb 11 19:47:11 sivang: we'll have werewolf at the next meego conference, and I'm hoping to get a couple of games going at the CollabSummit in April Feb 11 19:47:33 I wonder where is Quim though Feb 11 19:47:47 sivang: like the rest of nokians, regrouping Feb 11 19:47:48 DawnFoster: collabsummit from LFS? Feb 11 19:47:49 probably Feb 11 19:47:58 Stskeeps: I guess. Feb 11 19:48:04 bunk: you'll want to poke 'nazgee' for his patch Feb 11 19:48:07 sivang: he's wearing his other MeeGo shirt Feb 11 19:48:22 bluelf: my internet is utterly slow, but look for contribution guidelines on meego.com Feb 11 19:48:22 but you probably know that alreday Feb 11 19:48:26 This has to be really hard for the Nokians working day to day on the project - let's give them some time to digest what all of this means for them Feb 11 19:48:43 Stskeeps: Do you have a bug URL. Feb 11 19:48:49 we're hiding, trying to steer clear from the discussions Feb 11 19:48:51 bunk: was trying to find it Feb 11 19:49:07 bunk: but all my tcp connections stall in funny ways Feb 11 19:49:07 Stskeeps, ok Feb 11 19:49:14 where does todays news leave QT at large? Feb 11 19:49:20 thiago_home: keep safe Feb 11 19:49:23 tybollt: Quiet? Feb 11 19:49:33 bunk: ah, found the merge Feb 11 19:50:00 I mean seeing as nokia bought trolltech (right?) they will just drop qt all together now, or? Feb 11 19:50:12 tybollt: go read the press materials, that explains a little more Feb 11 19:50:21 like I said, keeping clear of the discussions Feb 11 19:50:21 sad to hear that wonderful music that always was in the background of device demos in helsinki promotion videos with the new video of the partnership Feb 11 19:50:25 i can't get over how much nokia's stock has been dropping Feb 11 19:50:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe3ksR8zgXg Feb 11 19:51:35 sivang: http://wiki.meego.com/Events/Linux_Foundation_Collaboration_Summit_planning <- I just added an informal gathering section with werewolf as the first idea :) Feb 11 19:51:36 thank you sivang :) Feb 11 19:51:37 i'm waiting for qt 4.7.2 in meego at the moment, as that should get us meegographicssystem for libmeegotouch Feb 11 19:52:30 (is disabled atm) Feb 11 19:52:41 Nokia should have kept GTK in the first place, Qt is in part why Nokia was never able to release Meego Feb 11 19:52:55 sebsauer: for what ? :) Feb 11 19:52:56 how well does kde mobile work on meego Feb 11 19:53:02 uhsf: naah. that wasn't it Feb 11 19:53:19 sivang: for rememering me with that video by I left Windows long ago Feb 11 19:53:21 sivang: your links was not necessary :( Feb 11 19:53:23 15.99% down... come on, go below 16... Feb 11 19:53:25 now Feb 11 19:53:30 Stskeeps: otoh you have to think what would happened if they had just released a n901 a few months ago Feb 11 19:53:39 woot! -16.08% :) Feb 11 19:53:40 Stskeeps: any eta for that? Feb 11 19:53:41 would elop be the ceo? :) Feb 11 19:53:43 niala1: well, it is very saddening to me. Feb 11 19:53:46 timoph: 4.7.2? Feb 11 19:53:49 yep Feb 11 19:53:57 timoph: supposedly FEA is accepted, but i don't know if 4.7.2 is even out :) Feb 11 19:54:07 ah :) Feb 11 19:54:20 sivang: elop face bug my splendid asus s101 atom meego Feb 11 19:54:57 Milhouse: i feel sorry for the devs of nokia.... they have families the more the stock drops the more people will be laid off Feb 11 19:55:22 don't hate nokia because of some ex-microsoft jackass Feb 11 19:55:26 I think it would be a great time to reunite Maemo and Meego communities into one, to join forces and produce the best open mobile platform, and under a better name by the occasion. Feb 11 19:55:29 openstandards: +10000000 Feb 11 19:55:44 openstandards: i doubt that, to be honest. they'll be laid off irrespective of stock price, but if it continues to tank maybe they won't. I feel very sorry for them though, and hope they'll all be ok. Feb 11 19:56:01 openstandards: sad day for european industry, if i permit politic talk here Feb 11 19:56:29 i'm hoping that if the market continues to give the thumbs down for this new strategy, the board (or someone) will grow the balls to think about reversing it... i can dream anyway. Feb 11 19:57:07 Milhouse: I'm friends with a dev that worked for symbian that went onto nokia... and lets just say nokia uk wasn't doing great back in nov Feb 11 19:57:09 I tend to throw phones at people Feb 11 19:57:21 so its certainly not going to get any better Feb 11 19:57:25 so a nokia phone with windows and a blue screen would be a good brick Feb 11 19:57:47 oh wait, that's not what you meant by ball Feb 11 19:58:01 Milhouse: all it means is some ass is going to buy a ton of nokias shares for cheap and its not going to help anyone Feb 11 19:58:09 openstandards: I'd expect the people to be cut have already been identified, the share price isn't likely to affect that at all. Feb 11 19:58:22 if we forget nokia what s new in congress ? Feb 11 19:58:37 niala1: i'm hoping to see other meego announcements really Feb 11 19:58:37 funnily enough, Feb 11 19:58:41 Milhouse: that might be the case however more job cuts will come Feb 11 19:58:50 htc just said that they're not showing any wp7 phones at mwc Feb 11 19:58:56 javispedro: interesting Feb 11 19:59:08 but that they "still believe in wp7" Feb 11 19:59:10 Stskeeps: we needs asian Feb 11 19:59:15 openstandards: no doubt, but a tanking share price is the only hope for change - if it starts to go up it vindicates this announcement. Feb 11 19:59:24 javispedro: heh :) Feb 11 19:59:32 hope for change == back to meego, qt, etc. Feb 11 19:59:44 Milhouse: it will jump up again as the stock falls Feb 11 19:59:55 even symbian, which i think is a good mobile os - just needs a new lick of paint. Feb 11 20:00:03 so now it's time to say something which I have been allowed to say already: qt is not disappearing, open governance continues Feb 11 20:00:10 * thiago_home goes back to idling and reading Feb 11 20:00:16 its going to be a yoyo till one company decides to buy enough shares to do damage Feb 11 20:00:22 openstandards: we'll see, too early to call it now... just interesting to see it go south Feb 11 20:00:23 * Stskeeps thanks thiago_home Feb 11 20:00:46 * sivang thanks thiago_home Feb 11 20:00:46 no need to found the freeqt foundation then I guess =) Feb 11 20:00:51 found? Feb 11 20:00:55 *start Feb 11 20:00:57 do you mean another one? Feb 11 20:01:15 you know, the KDE Free Qt Foundation already exists Feb 11 20:01:33 ping lbt Feb 11 20:01:37 yeah. Feb 11 20:01:49 it's maybe not what you want, but a foundation exists :-) Feb 11 20:01:52 pvaz: pong Feb 11 20:02:06 heheeh Feb 11 20:02:07 yeah, your account doesn't appear to be there Feb 11 20:02:28 strange, I've create on meego website Feb 11 20:02:38 great to hear thiago_home, thx :) Feb 11 20:02:48 oh, I should register on obs ? Feb 11 20:03:04 no meego.com website Feb 11 20:03:18 what's your email - msg me if you like Feb 11 20:03:48 pvaz@valorverde.pt Feb 11 20:04:50 well now... it is possible that the meego.com website stopped syncing again Feb 11 20:05:00 I dunno what those guys keep doing... Feb 11 20:06:02 lbt: want me to ping Mike to have him look at the account snc? Feb 11 20:06:18 Open Source + Asians + fast growing economies + cheaper hardware + the hardware openness Android has made = opportunities Feb 11 20:06:23 strange, even i tried to create on opensuse build system, and gives error Feb 11 20:06:25 DawnFoster: adam just signed in... gimme a sec Feb 11 20:06:32 pvaz: that won't work Feb 11 20:06:39 So Qt@Symbian then. The N8 has 4.6 pre-installed and rocks already. Feb 11 20:06:45 lbt: yes, seems so Feb 11 20:06:53 lbt: cool - let me know if I can help - otherwise I'll just stay out of your way :) Feb 11 20:07:15 DawnFoster: Thank you Feb 11 20:07:21 "$NOK down 16% in New York. Nokia's soul down even more in Finland." <---Asymco Feb 11 20:07:54 * thiago_home thinks the stock down that much has moved from "market reaction" to the "investor panic" range Feb 11 20:08:24 * timoph nods Feb 11 20:08:40 DawnFoster: mmm adam's not responded ... pinging Mike would be good. Last sync at 14:58 server time Feb 11 20:09:03 thiago_home: or that they simply don't believe in the direction, maybe Feb 11 20:09:18 whatever nokia does the stock goes down, completely normal for nokia :) Feb 11 20:09:23 "abandon linux and watch your stock collapse" Feb 11 20:09:24 hmmh. I could package something to kill the time. anything simple missing from MeeGo? Feb 11 20:09:30 timoph: "joe" Feb 11 20:09:43 joe? what's that Feb 11 20:09:46 timoph: vnc Feb 11 20:09:48 joe doe? Feb 11 20:09:52 timoph: package it in c.OBS Feb 11 20:09:53 timoph: my favorite editor Feb 11 20:09:54 editor Feb 11 20:09:58 tigervnc Feb 11 20:09:59 * WindowsPhone7 brings you: Trojan Horse Feb 11 20:10:01 lbt: was planning to Feb 11 20:10:05 have fun Feb 11 20:10:19 lbt++ Feb 11 20:10:23 good ... I want to get some maintained apps sorted Feb 11 20:10:31 Stskeeps: ack. I'll start with it Feb 11 20:10:56 (yes, while i'm a vim user, i like joe better as it uses same shortcuts as PolyPascal editor..) Feb 11 20:11:02 I thought MeeGo had a vnc client already Feb 11 20:11:03 I also would like to see some of the non-essential come out of MeeGo core and into a more community supportable area Feb 11 20:11:07 Anyone knows if it's possible to put MeeGo working on a ARM11 tablet ? Feb 11 20:11:24 yes, a big upset today Feb 11 20:11:38 pvaz: we currently build meego for armv7 and higher Feb 11 20:11:38 lbt: regardless of the current mess going on, what was the field you were looking for help with? something about packaging IIRC? Feb 11 20:11:45 pvaz: meego requires armv7 Feb 11 20:12:02 dm8tbr: policy :) Feb 11 20:12:04 Stskeeps: But cannot use higher arm cpu ? Feb 11 20:12:10 pvaz: arm11 is lower Feb 11 20:12:13 lbt: mike is looking into it Feb 11 20:12:17 lbt: that's the other topic, yes Feb 11 20:12:19 * WindowsPhone7 raped MeeGo Feb 11 20:12:19 I'd like to get some Team areas and top level projects started Feb 11 20:12:25 DawnFoster: thanks Feb 11 20:12:34 pvaz: it goes like this: arm9 (armv5), arm11 (armv6), cortex-a8 (armv7) Feb 11 20:12:46 can someone please plonk the troll? Feb 11 20:12:53 WindowsPhone7, haa haa, very funny Feb 11 20:12:58 pvaz: so be careful when saying "a9" (cortex-a9, an armv7) and "arm9" Feb 11 20:12:59 thiago_home: thank you, always learning Feb 11 20:13:09 WindowsPhone7: please adhere to http://wiki.meego.com/IRC_guidelines or we'll have to ask you to leave Feb 11 20:13:10 DawnFoster, could you please do something? Feb 11 20:13:10 dm8tbr: which troll? Feb 11 20:13:14 * niala1 enjoy that nobody answer the troll Feb 11 20:13:20 auke: WindowsPhone7 Feb 11 20:13:23 too late Feb 11 20:13:26 sorry, just walked in from lunch Feb 11 20:13:32 Stskeeps: meh, I feel very sorry about all :( Feb 11 20:13:38 I almost cryed :/ Feb 11 20:13:44 Stskeeps, do you have a link for the Nokia press release on the status of Qt? Feb 11 20:13:56 pvaz: the ones with "v" indicate the instruction set and major architecture Feb 11 20:13:57 I seriously dont understand how they made such thing Feb 11 20:13:57 WindowsPhone7: please, just log out instead of misbehaving Feb 11 20:13:59 Vid: nokia.com/press , blogs.forum.nokia.com etc Feb 11 20:14:00 http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/02/11/letter-to-developers Feb 11 20:14:02 Vid: is every where on the internet Feb 11 20:14:02 pvaz: v7 is the latest Feb 11 20:14:09 Vid: ^^ Feb 11 20:14:18 WindowsPhone7: well, switch to a less insulting nickname then ;) Feb 11 20:14:36 WindowsPhone7: please Feb 11 20:14:41 k Feb 11 20:14:43 :) Feb 11 20:14:47 thiago_home: thanks, you have any idea if anyone have made it for any tablet made in china ? Feb 11 20:14:50 * WindowsPhone7 < MeeGo Feb 11 20:14:54 WindowsPhone7: laugh with windows community please if they exist Feb 11 20:15:10 thanks Feb 11 20:15:18 pvaz: no clue. Feb 11 20:15:19 i'm almost afraid to read talk.maemo.org today, heh Feb 11 20:15:35 HtheB: thanks you re welcome Feb 11 20:15:50 auke: np Feb 11 20:16:05 niala1: ? Feb 11 20:16:24 Stskeeps, you don't want to, I think there are about 9+ threads on the Nokia + MS partnership Feb 11 20:16:24 Stskeeps: after seeing what went on here and on #maemo during the day I wouldn't dare to touch it with a 10m pole Feb 11 20:16:25 I dont know if you guys already know about this: Feb 11 20:16:28 thank to change nick... anyway forget Feb 11 20:16:38 thiago_home: I think it was amazing to spread meego, since the market of tablets is predicted to by millions this year Feb 11 20:16:40 http://mynokiablog.com/2011/02/11/another-ex-microsoft-appointed-as-nokias-north-american-president/ Feb 11 20:16:46 HtheB: yeah, we read that Feb 11 20:17:05 Stskeeps: Stay away fromtmo for Tetnacled's sake Feb 11 20:17:34 dm8tbr: lol Feb 11 20:17:41 Well... I guess its Time to join Intel and AMD and leave Nokia Feb 11 20:17:46 let's just nuke it from orbit, k? Feb 11 20:17:55 HtheB: meego goes on Feb 11 20:18:05 Stskeeps: yeah :) thats for sure Feb 11 20:18:09 * dm8tbr plonks HtheB, should have done it earlier Feb 11 20:18:49 but who will make the devices? Feb 11 20:18:53 I believe that we should do all we can to make meego become stronger and stronger, againts all speculations that want to make the project to go down. Android is good, indeed, but MeeGo can have it's own space Feb 11 20:19:02 any other manufacturer that will use MeeGo? ... Feb 11 20:19:06 HtheB: the question is, who wont? Feb 11 20:19:09 Personally I do not like Android Feb 11 20:19:19 Stskeeps: Nokia wont... Feb 11 20:19:24 well.. they will do... but Feb 11 20:19:34 "as an experiment" ¬_¬ Feb 11 20:19:57 That guy doesnt like Open Source at all Feb 11 20:20:05 pvaz, I also believe there is room for Meego. It is room for a few billion mobile units. That make space for more players Feb 11 20:20:11 sivang, thanks for the link. The paragraph on Qt talks about Symbian mostly, and holds out a carrot to devs promising they could 'migrate' to meego in the future Feb 11 20:20:36 Actually, with today's announcement, I realized how other alternatives are meh-y, so I'm looking into MeeGo again Feb 11 20:20:44 HtheB: "HtheB: "as an experiment" ¬_¬" experiment like bad boy experiment cat on water Feb 11 20:21:19 But I was looking for info on their future plans for licensing Qt after Symbian is gone Feb 11 20:21:40 fendel: Yes, I have nothing against android, I think Android is good, for me personally does not make me "in love", as long as MeeGo and since I use QT for a long time now, it's better. Also the UI it's far better than Android, on my opinion Feb 11 20:21:51 Vid: so yes, I don'tbeloieve nokia board want to see it dead. so they buyus time withWP7 when it is finished with qt it replaces WP7 Feb 11 20:21:55 wow, pretty scary, i turned off adblocking to see what the internet is like with ads: it's horrible Feb 11 20:22:08 Vid: the strategy can be canged anytime and the hint for that is "distruptive technolgoies" Feb 11 20:22:28 * thiago_home resists... urge... to comment! Feb 11 20:22:43 ahhaha Feb 11 20:22:45 so meego investment is protected as 'distrup[tive' forthe next gen Feb 11 20:22:56 thiago_home: hmm, am I the fool on the hill? :) Feb 11 20:23:02 * CosmoHill pets thiago_home Feb 11 20:23:05 uh... no comments Feb 11 20:23:14 hrm Feb 11 20:23:30 btw, if you want to know what a "disruptive technology" is, I recommend the book The Innovator's Solution Feb 11 20:23:39 pretty heavy in management and strategy Feb 11 20:24:05 pvaz: I have a lot against android, but I respect their right to exist and see that it can be opportunity in cooperating with android communities. Feb 11 20:24:42 pvaz: I trust Google as much as I trust Chinese government, Russian mafia, and what else. Nice as long as we have the same goals. Feb 11 20:25:01 "cloud" is great as long as it is MY cloud Feb 11 20:25:14 thiago_home: I guess I am a fool then :) Feb 11 20:25:49 sivang: no, you're not Feb 11 20:26:10 * dm8tbr hands out free scoobie snacks to everyone Feb 11 20:26:32 fendel: I do not thrust Chinese Gov, but reallity is that China is a sleeping dragon, awaking, and we cannot avoid it Feb 11 20:26:59 thiago_home: ok :) Feb 11 20:27:07 * sivang goes to order that book Feb 11 20:27:31 * thiago_home also liked yesterday's dilbert Feb 11 20:27:33 fendel: they are now making huge business on tablets, many of low quality, indeed, but putting android and spreading android as a flag to sell their tablets. I believe that it was important to have MeeGo working on this tablets Feb 11 20:27:39 pvaz: I do deal with both google and the Chinese. They are a fact of life, but I will not change my citizenship into Chinese or use Google services Feb 11 20:27:41 lets just thumb down this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe3ksR8zgXg Feb 11 20:27:53 dogbert was consulting and said: categorise your company: 1) facebook; 2) china; 3) irrelevant Feb 11 20:28:14 yea, yea,that is how a proper ceo thinks Feb 11 20:28:20 fendel: yes, I travel a lot to Asia but I also do not convert my self to their mind. Feb 11 20:28:34 thiago_home: Dilbert is awesome Feb 11 20:28:52 pvaz: The Chinese communist party was official guests in my wedding. They had the table of honor. They are a fact of life and I respect that Feb 11 20:28:55 DawnFoster: every other office in Oslo has a dilbert strip glued to their windows Feb 11 20:29:11 other offices have some mementos of Feb 11, 2010 Feb 11 20:29:12 same strip? Feb 11 20:29:15 link to dilbert? Feb 11 20:29:16 (yes, last year) Feb 11 20:29:19 of yesterday Feb 11 20:29:26 sivang: dilbert.com, click the back button Feb 11 20:30:02 thanks Feb 11 20:30:06 fendel: I also respect them, but reality is that it's a comunist gov and have a close way of thinking. I have many good chinese friends, but indeed China is good for rich Chinese people Feb 11 20:30:11 http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2011-02-10/ Feb 11 20:30:36 thiago_home: my family always gives me the dilbert daily calendar for christmas. Dogbert is my hero :) Feb 11 20:30:38 pvaz: :-) My view of Google is a bit similar. Feb 11 20:30:43 lbt: any luck ? Feb 11 20:31:09 * thiago_home has one that says something about trying to change the world with a powerpoint Feb 11 20:31:44 Nokia down 15.17% Feb 11 20:32:01 the Qt official blog is internally called the "PHB blog" Feb 11 20:32:01 fendel: yes, also, they want monopoly and what is happening to MeeGo is indeed the action of interest to make it go off. All the news outside it to damage the image of this great project Feb 11 20:32:04 all interested in meego, meego will live in that project even within Nokia. we must recouncil as a community and help it as much as we can and I am sure external funding will come to bring it to the point where it is ripe for main show with qt and focus will shift again. Feb 11 20:32:12 and we still have intel full steam Feb 11 20:32:20 sivang: founding will be interesting Feb 11 20:32:38 Stskeeps: I have a hunch it will miracously appear Feb 11 20:32:41 sivang: I fully support you. The union makes it stronger. Feb 11 20:32:50 pvaz: no, not yet... I don't have access to the source systems yet (not migrated) so I have to wait Feb 11 20:33:36 * thiago_home has no plans of leaving this channel Feb 11 20:33:42 so we should continue with meego on N900 and verticals without hesitationas just as with any community project. Feb 11 20:33:47 anyone knows if there are still europeans in the board? Feb 11 20:33:57 pvaz: Agree Feb 11 20:33:58 and I am sure the LFS want sto see it prosper Feb 11 20:34:22 lbt: please do not forget to help me on that, it's important for me. And thank you for your help. Feb 11 20:34:52 and qt is going forward with open governece so should not be a problm to fix there what we need for meego Feb 11 20:34:57 sivang: to make it stronger is to make it alive Feb 11 20:35:35 it is a live and one of the nicestFOSS to be part of , I assure you Feb 11 20:35:40 lbt: adam is looking into the account sync issue right now Feb 11 20:35:45 and not just by the friendlynature of support channels Feb 11 20:35:49 thiago_home: how do you see the outlook for meego/qt?....can you see projects like freoffice having a platform to run on? Feb 11 20:35:59 DawnFoster: ta - it seemed to stop earlier today Feb 11 20:36:03 when do you expect Meego to be more usable than Maemo on a N900? Feb 11 20:36:10 piggz: I'd rather not comment on anything official right now Feb 11 20:36:15 uhsf: when you contribute Feb 11 20:36:16 I'm going to be looking at some monitoring over the weekend too Feb 11 20:36:31 uhsf: send a patch Feb 11 20:36:37 piggz: the news are pretty fresh and everyone is still digesting them Feb 11 20:37:00 uhsf: think of more app ideas that can be used only on posix based Feb 11 20:37:01 oops Feb 11 20:37:05 too religious a bit :) Feb 11 20:37:07 thiago_home: i know, i have been digesting it all day, getting more and more depressed! Feb 11 20:37:30 i should remove twimgo from my n900...twitter is just gloomy! Feb 11 20:38:45 there is nothing to digest about, nokia done suicide. the might still sell some phones over the next years, but as sw will get more and more important, there is no future for nokia in the phone business Feb 11 20:39:39 well, thats certainly +ve ;) Feb 11 20:42:24 do think they can successfull just by soldering some chips together? Feb 11 20:42:40 randomly? Feb 11 20:42:42 remember, this is a meego discussion channel, not a nokia discussion channel Feb 11 20:42:49 mee go sleep now Feb 11 20:42:54 a little quiet, it feels good Feb 11 20:42:56 RFC 2795 :-) Feb 11 20:43:13 Stskeeps: You haven't forgotten my question? Feb 11 20:43:37 I've create a forum for QT developers and I am trying to find some moderators to this forum and to help me making it known, anyone can help me ? Feb 11 20:44:15 pvaz: uh... please use the qt devnet instead Feb 11 20:44:23 pvaz: or qtcentre Feb 11 20:44:29 meego forum need helps Feb 11 20:44:58 Stskeeps: OK, as soon as I ask I find it myself... Feb 11 20:45:09 thiago_home: I will Feb 11 20:45:43 Stskeeps: Thanks for the hint with the NFS, I'll check that. Feb 11 20:45:46 bunk: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/uxlaunch Feb 11 20:45:51 check changes done there Feb 11 20:46:51 lbt: try again - sync should be working now Feb 11 20:47:09 Stskeeps: yup, found it Feb 11 20:47:35 lbt: looks like ssh config on destination server changed & broke sync Feb 11 20:47:46 lbt: any progress on defining the surrounds/extras process? Feb 11 20:47:51 DawnFoster, you based in the UK ? Feb 11 20:48:10 LinuxCode: nope - at Intel here in Oregon (US) Feb 11 20:48:25 Computing Mag (free), does a weekly dilbert Feb 11 20:48:28 just working on UK time today with the Nokia announcements Feb 11 20:48:31 DawnFoster: it's not there ... probably will turn up in 10 mins though Feb 11 20:48:50 or bi-weekly, cant recall now how often that thing comes through the door Feb 11 20:49:07 DawnFoster, there is a digital edition Feb 11 20:49:28 pvaz: I've set it to add you in 15mins... try then Feb 11 20:49:28 LinuxCode: i'll have to check it out Feb 11 20:49:34 http://www.computing.co.uk/ Feb 11 20:49:50 * piggz downloads the feb-11 build of meego for n900 Feb 11 20:49:52 * lbt -> until tomorrow .... 'night all .... hope there's better things to come ;) Feb 11 20:50:03 lbt: I will do that. Thank you lbt and DawnFoster for all the help Feb 11 20:53:37 ho-hum Feb 11 20:53:42 what a week Feb 11 20:53:46 indeed Feb 11 20:53:51 * Stskeeps passes Myrtti tea Feb 11 20:53:58 *yawn* not sleeping is starting to catch up with me. Feb 11 20:54:17 What day ! Feb 11 20:54:22 What a dat ! Feb 11 20:54:29 can't type anymore.. Feb 11 20:54:42 Let me try again : What a day ! Feb 11 20:54:44 Aranel, ha, I actually hadn't seen that. Weird coincidence. ;) Feb 11 20:54:44 intel will have a talk like nokia today at mobile world congress ? Feb 11 20:54:48 DawnFoster: wanna coffee ? Feb 11 20:55:09 pvaz: I've been drinking green tea since 2am Feb 11 20:55:18 caffeine only gets me so far Feb 11 20:55:32 DawnFoster: Green Tea as lot of caffeine Feb 11 20:55:37 tea good idea...... Feb 11 20:56:02 and tea if far better than coffee, and also you can eat some cookies ! lol Feb 11 20:57:00 i usually start the day with 2 filter coffess's, followed by a green tea in the afternoon Feb 11 20:57:26 You can just as well take it via a syringe... Feb 11 20:57:30 just imagine balmer and elop at this party: http://www.youtube.com/user/NokiaConversations#p/search/0/C1lEEllKAcE Feb 11 21:03:49 btw. how do I enable the virtual keyboard? I've installed large parts of meego from source. Feb 11 21:04:54 the meego phone nokia "promised" will not be n900 by any chance? Feb 11 21:05:24 aholler: on netbook ? Feb 11 21:05:25 MrCase: nah, they're not -that- delusional Feb 11 21:05:25 :P Feb 11 21:05:54 niala1: no, e.g. for touch-photo, -music -email Feb 11 21:06:00 i am wondering about the sorry state of the apps on the n900. Feb 11 21:06:33 handset ux? Feb 11 21:06:41 yes Feb 11 21:06:46 aholler: sorry i don't have any n900 i haven't try meego handset . Feb 11 21:06:48 like twimgo or newsflow, some of the supposedly better apps, they're lacking. Feb 11 21:09:05 question: i m newbie how long should infuse tea ? 3minute 5 minutes? Feb 11 21:09:26 depends on the tea and the water temperature Feb 11 21:09:29 ok people, I'm off to nap for a bit :) Feb 11 21:09:39 nite DawnFoster - thanks for being around Feb 11 21:09:40 niala1: depends on your flavor, palette, water, cups/pot used etc... Feb 11 21:09:48 do it till you think it looks good Feb 11 21:09:59 Stskeeps: thanks Feb 11 21:10:09 :) earlgrey water 100°celcius Feb 11 21:10:20 niala1: 5 minutes for me. Feb 11 21:10:21 DawnFoster: have a nice day Feb 11 21:10:21 niala1: I too don't have such. I've used a beagle: http://ahsoftware.de/MeGentooBeagle.jpg Feb 11 21:10:26 it all depends, tea is like steak :) Feb 11 21:10:45 niala1: 3 should be sufficient. Feb 11 21:11:00 ahhh smile here :) Feb 11 21:11:06 * openstandards likes his steak medium rare Feb 11 21:11:09 niala1: but try 5 with a bit of sugar and milk. Feb 11 21:12:14 thanks it's perfect Feb 11 21:12:35 perfect like meego netbook Feb 11 21:15:28 woops i have destroy the little small bag of tea Feb 11 21:15:59 you mean the teabag? Feb 11 21:16:05 niala1: aw Feb 11 21:16:10 hey auke Feb 11 21:16:17 good day Feb 11 21:16:24 no, not really Feb 11 21:16:41 best part of the day was seeing my friend and playing the PS3 Feb 11 21:16:50 haha Feb 11 21:16:53 speaking of ps2 Feb 11 21:16:55 ps3 Feb 11 21:16:57 my dissertation is a blackhole :( Feb 11 21:17:05 my 2-year old LOVES watching me or my wife play Flower Feb 11 21:17:13 Flower? Feb 11 21:17:17 Flower Feb 11 21:17:20 2 year olds are awesome Feb 11 21:17:47 I used to babysit one Feb 11 21:18:23 niala1: then you have sopmething nice to chew on ;-) Feb 11 21:18:32 -p Feb 11 21:20:34 d12n: :) fortunately that was not happen during nokia announce, I'd become crazy Feb 11 21:21:53 idea: an solar atom phone to work around battery issues Feb 11 21:22:35 http://thehandheldblog.com/2011/02/12/intel-disappointed-with-nokias-move-but-puts-its-weight-behind-meego/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+MaemoCentral+(The+Handheld+Blog)&utm_content=Twitter Feb 11 21:24:02 that ... is a Feb 11 21:24:06 very long url :) Feb 11 21:24:17 auke: you must have missed the dilbert one yesterday Feb 11 21:24:33 I haven't read my comics for a few days Feb 11 21:24:38 no worries, they're all in my inbox Feb 11 21:24:47 I'm super sad Feb 11 21:25:04 that nokia did this Feb 11 21:27:31 here, i'll fix that url: Feb 11 21:27:34 http://hugeurl.com/?NjgxMGM0YTIyODUwYjg5ZWU0YzNkZDRlOWU0OGRmNhttp://hugeurl.com/?NjgxMGM0YTIyODUwYjg5ZWU0YzNkZDRlOWU0OGRmNGUmOCZWbTB4ZDFJeGJGZFhXR3hVVjBkb1dGWXdaRk5VTVZweldrYzVWMkpIZUZaVmJYUXdWMFpLYzJKRVRscFdWbHBRVm0xemVGWXlUa2RYYkZwcFYwZG9lVlpyVWtkWlYwMTRXa2hHVW1KSVFtOVVWbWhEWWpGa1dHUkhSbHBXTURVd1ZrZDBWMVV5U2toVmJHaGhWak5TUjFwVldscGxSbVIwVW14b2FWWnNjRnBXVnpFd1lqRldSMWR1VmxKaWEwcFlXVlJHWVdGR1duTlhiWFJZVWpBMVIxZHJaREJVYkZsNFUydHdWMkpVUlhkWmFrcEdaVVpPZFZ Feb 11 21:27:34 ac1NtbGhNSEJaVmtaV2ExVXlVbGRqUm1SWVlraENjMVpzVWxkWGJGVjVZM3BHVjAxRVJraFphazVyVmpGYVJsZHVXbHBsYTFwVVdYcEdUMWRYVGtoaFJrNVhVak5vYjFadE1UQldNV3hZVm01T1ZtSnJOVmxaYTFVeFYwWnNjbGR0Um14V2JHdzFWRlpTVTFack1WaFZhMlJXVFc1b2NsWnFSbUZTYlVsNldrWndWMUpXY0ZWWFdIQkhWREpPYzFwSVVtbFNiRXBVVm10YVlWZEdXblJOV0dSVlRWWldORmxyV210aGJFcHpZMFpvVjAxSFVuWlpNVnBYWkVkV1NWcEdhR2xTTTJnMVZtcEtlazVYUmtkWGJrNXBVa1p3V1ZsWGN6RmtiRmwzV2tWYWJGSnRVakZWTW5ocllVZEZlbEZzUWxoaE1VcE1WbXBHU21WV1NuSmF Feb 11 21:27:35 SbWhwVmpOb2RsWkdWbTlSTURWSFYyNUtXR0pZVWs5VmJURTBWakZTVm1GSE9XaFNWRUkxVmxjeFIxbFdXWHBoUjJoYVRWWndXRmt4V2tka1ZuQkdUbFprYVZORlNtRldhMXBoVlRGVmVGcElUbGhpYTNCWlZtdFdkMVl4YkhKYVJ6bE9UVlpzTlZwVlpFZGhNVWwzVjJ0b1YxWXphRE5aVldSR1pESkZlbHBHWkdoaE1IQllWa1phWVdFeFdYaGpSV3hXWWxkb1ZGWnJXbUZrTVZweFVXMTBhVTFFUm5wV01XaHZWbTFHTm1KSVJscGlSbkJvVlRGYVlWZEhVa2hQVm1SVFlsWktTMVpXWkRSak1XUjBVMnRvYUZOR2NGaFZhazV2WVVacmVGZHJaR3RXYlZJd1dsVmFUMkZYUlhkalJXeFhZbGhTYUZscVNrcGxWa3BaV2t Feb 11 21:27:41 umm Feb 11 21:27:42 VMVdGSlVWbFpYVjNSdlVURmtSMWR1Vm1wU2JWSlBWRlphZDFOR1dYbGxTR1JwVW14c05GVnRjR0ZYUjBWNFkwUk9WMUl6VGpSYVJscFhWbFpHYzFwR1RtbFNXRUpLVmpKMFUxSXlSWGhVYTJSVlltdHdiMVZzVW5OWFJsSllUVmM1VjJKR2NGbFVWbEpEVjBkS1YxSnFVbGROVjJoMlZqSnpkMlZYUmtkaFJsWlhUVEZLTmxaSGVHRldNbEpJVm10b1VGWnNXazlXYlRFelRXeGFjMXBJY0U1V2JHdzFWVEkxVjFWdFJYbGhSMFpoVmpOU2FGa3llSE5PYkVwMVdrWlNVMDFWY0VwWGExWnJZakZTY2sxVldtcFNiV2hZV1d0YVMxUkdVbFphUlZwc1VteEtXbGxWV205aFJURlpVV3hHVjJKWWFISlpha3BIVWpGYWRWVnJ Feb 11 21:27:43 * CosmoHill hides Feb 11 21:27:47 OVmRsYlhoWlZsY3dNVkV4U1hoWFdHeE9Va1ZhY0ZWcVFuZFRSbFY1WTBWa1YwMUVSbmhWYkdoclZqQXhSMk5GZUZkTlZuQklXa1prUjFJeGNFWk9WMnhwVmpKb1UxWnRNSGRrTWxaSFYxaHNWVmRIYUZaWmJYUjNZakZXZEUxWE9XcFNiR3d6VjJ0ak5XRlZNVmRqUkVKYVRVWmFjbFpyVlhoamF6VldZVVp3VGxKc2NIbFhWbFpoVXpGa1YxWnVWbFJpUjFKd1ZtdGFZVkpXV25GVGFsSlhZbFphU0Zrd1ZsZFdiVXBIVjI1Q1YySkdjRE5VYlhoclYwZE9SazlYYkU1V00yaFpWbFJLTkdJeFdsaFNiazVVWWtkNFlWbHJXa3RUUmxwR1YyeHdhMDFYVWpCVmJURXdWVEF4Vm1ORmNGaFdiRnBvV1dwR1ZtVldUbkpoUmt Feb 11 21:27:48 you took that too far Feb 11 21:27:53 KWFVsUldXVlp0ZEZka2F6RkhWMnhXVTJKRmNITlZiWE14Wld4a2NscElaRmRTYTNCNVdUQmFjMWRHV1hwaFNGcGFZV3R3U0ZWcVJtRmpNVnB6Vkcxc1UwMVZjRkpXYlRCNFRrWk5kMDFWWkZaaWF6VlpXV3hvVTFac2JISldiazVPVFZkME0xWXlNRFZXTVZwVlVteHNWMVl6UWxCV2FrRjRaRmRHU0dGR1ZtbFhSMmhOVjFSR1lWVXlUWGxTYTJSaFVqSjRXRmxVU1RSbFZscHhVbTF3YTAxc1draFdSbWh6VmxkRmVWVnNiRnBoTWxFd1dURmFWMlJIVGpaU2JHUlRZa2hCZDFaSGVGZFVNa3BJVTJ0a2FWSkdXbWhXYkdSU1pERmFkRTFWZEZkaVZUVkhWMnRhVjFZeFdYbGhTR3hYWWtaS1NGWXlNVmRrUmtweVYyeEN Feb 11 21:27:53 *ducks* Feb 11 21:27:58 WMkpyU2xsV1YzaFhaRzFXYzFkdVNsWmhNbEp2VkZaYWMwNUdhM2RXYlhSYVZtdHNObFpYZUZOV1ZscFlWVmh3WVZZemFHaFpNbmh5WlcxR1JrOVdUazVTYmtKaFZteFNTazFXVVhoWGEyaFRZbXMxV1ZsclpEUlhSbXh6Vld0a1ZrMVlRbGxhVldoUFlXMUtSMk5HY0ZwV1YxSXpXVlphUzFaV1duTmpSbWhwVW14d1dGWkdXbXRTTVU1SFZHNU9hRkl5YUZSWmJGcExWMnhhZEUxVVVscFdNRFY2VmpJMVUxUnNXbGxWYkZKYVYwaENTRll5ZUZabFYxWkhWRzFvVTFaRldYaFhWbFpyWWpGWmVWTnNWbGRoYXpWWVdWZDBkMVZHYkRaVGEzUlRUVmRTTUZWdGVFOWhWbHB5WTBSU1YyRXhjR2haYWtaR1pVWk9jMXBHYUd Feb 11 21:28:01 kick him Feb 11 21:28:02 saGVsWjJWbFJDVmsxV1dYaGlTRTVYWWtkU1QxUldaREJOTVd4V1lVZDBXRkl3Y0ZkV01qVnpWMnN4U0dGRmFGZE5ha1pIV2xWYVlXTldWbk5qUlRWWFRWVndTVll5ZUdGaE1WbDRVMjVLVDFadGFHOVZha28wVmtad1dFMVljR3ROVm5CNFZUSndRMVl3TVhKWGFrSlhZbGhTY2xsWGVFOVNhelZZVDFaV1YxSlhPSGRXYkZwaFYyMVJlRnBJVWxOaVdFSndWVzE0ZDA1R1dsaE5TR2hUVFZaS2VsWXlOVmRWYlVWNVZXeG9WbUZyTlhaWlZWcHpZMnh3Um1SR1RtbFdWRlpJVjFaV1lXRXhXWGROU0dSVVlrVmFXVlp0ZUdGaFJteFZVbXR3YkZKc1NucFphMlJIVlRKS1dHRklaRmRXTTBKTVdXcEdVMUl4WkhOWGJHaG9 Feb 11 21:28:07 UVmhDVWxadE1UQlRNVlY0Vm10a1ZsZEhVbEpXVmxGM1QxRTlQUT09GUmOCZWbTB4ZDFJeGJGZFhXR3hVVjBkb1dGWXdaRk5VTVZweldrYzVWMkpIZUZaVmJYUXdWMFpLYzJKRVRscFdWbHBRVm0xemVGWXlUa2RYYkZwcFYwZG9lVlpyVWtkWlYwMTRXa2hHVW1KSVFtOVVWbWhEWWpGa1dHUkhSbHBXTURVd1ZrZDBWMVV5U2toVmJHaGhWak5TUjFwVldscGxSbVIwVW14b2FWWnNjRnBXVnpFd1lqRldSMWR1VmxKaWEwcFlXVlJHWVdGR1duTlhiWFJZVWpBMVIxZHJaREJVYkZsNFUydHdWMkpVUlhkWmFrcEdaVVpPZFZac1NtbGhNSEJaVmtaV2ExVXlVbGRqUm1SWVlraENjMVpzVWxkWGJGVjVZM3BHVjAxRVJr Feb 11 21:28:09 Somebody ban him already, he has lost his mind =) Feb 11 21:28:12 aFphazVyVmpGYVJsZHVXbHBsYTFwVVdYcEdUMWRYVGtoaFJrNVhVak5vYjFadE1UQldNV3hZVm01T1ZtSnJOVmxaYTFVeFYwWnNjbGR0Um14V2JHdzFWRlpTVTFack1WaFZhMlJXVFc1b2NsWnFSbUZTYlVsNldrWndWMUpXY0ZWWFdIQkhWREpPYzFwSVVtbFNiRXBVVm10YVlWZEdXblJOV0dSVlRWWldORmxyV210aGJFcHpZMFpvVjAxSFVuWlpNVnBYWkVkV1NWcEdhR2xTTTJnMVZtcEtlazVYUmtkWGJrNXBVa1p3V1ZsWGN6RmtiRmwzV2tWYWJGSnRVakZWTW5ocllVZEZlbEZzUWxoaE1VcE1WbXBHU21WV1NuSmFSbWhwVmpOb2RsWkdWbTlSTURWSFYyNUtXR0pZVWs5VmJURTBWakZTVm1GSE9XaFNWRUkx Feb 11 21:28:14 !ops Feb 11 21:28:19 VmxjeFIxbFdXWHBoUjJoYVRWWndXRmt4V2tka1ZuQkdUbFprYVZORlNtRldhMXBoVlRGVmVGcElUbGhpYTNCWlZtdFdkMVl4YkhKYVJ6bE9UVlpzTlZwVlpFZGhNVWwzVjJ0b1YxWXphRE5aVldSR1pESkZlbHBHWkdoaE1IQllWa1phWVdFeFdYaGpSV3hXWWxkb1ZGWnJXbUZrTVZweFVXMTBhVTFFUm5wV01XaHZWbTFHTm1KSVJscGlSbkJvVlRGYVlWZEhVa2hQVm1SVFlsWktTMVpXWkRSak1XUjBVMnRvYUZOR2NGaFZhazV2WVVacmVGZHJaR3RXYlZJd1dsVmFUMkZYUlhkalJXeFhZbGhTYUZscVNrcGxWa3BaV2tVMVdGSlVWbFpYVjNSdlVURmtSMWR1Vm1wU2JWSlBWRlphZDFOR1dYbGxTR1JwVW14c05G Feb 11 21:28:21 Who could blame him? Feb 11 21:28:24 VnRjR0ZYUjBWNFkwUk9WMUl6VGpSYVJscFhWbFpHYzFwR1RtbFNXRUpLVmpKMFUxSXlSWGhVYTJSVlltdHdiMVZzVW5OWFJsSllUVmM1VjJKR2NGbFVWbEpEVjBkS1YxSnFVbGROVjJoMlZqSnpkMlZYUmtkaFJsWlhUVEZLTmxaSGVHRldNbEpJVm10b1VGWnNXazlXYlRFelRXeGFjMXBJY0U1V2JHdzFWVEkxVjFWdFJYbGhSMFpoVmpOU2FGa3llSE5PYkVwMVdrWlNVMDFWY0VwWGExWnJZakZTY2sxVldtcFNiV2hZV1d0YVMxUkdVbFphUlZwc1VteEtXbGxWV205aFJURlpVV3hHVjJKWWFISlpha3BIVWpGYWRWVnJOVmRsYlhoWlZsY3dNVkV4U1hoWFdHeE9Va1ZhY0ZWcVFuZFRSbFY1WTBWa1YwMUVSbmhW Feb 11 21:28:29 Still. Feb 11 21:28:29 YkdoclZqQXhSMk5GZUZkTlZuQklXa1prUjFJeGNFWk9WMnhwVmpKb1UxWnRNSGRrTWxaSFYxaHNWVmRIYUZaWmJYUjNZakZXZEUxWE9XcFNiR3d6VjJ0ak5XRlZNVmRqUkVKYVRVWmFjbFpyVlhoamF6VldZVVp3VGxKc2NIbFhWbFpoVXpGa1YxWnVWbFJpUjFKd1ZtdGFZVkpXV25GVGFsSlhZbFphU0Zrd1ZsZFdiVXBIVjI1Q1YySkdjRE5VYlhoclYwZE9SazlYYkU1V00yaFpWbFJLTkdJeFdsaFNiazVVWWtkNFlWbHJXa3RUUmxwR1YyeHdhMDFYVWpCVmJURXdWVEF4Vm1ORmNGaFdiRnBvV1dwR1ZtVldUbkpoUmtKWFVsUldXVlp0ZEZka2F6RkhWMnhXVTJKRmNITlZiWE14Wld4a2NscElaRmRTYTNCNVdU Feb 11 21:28:34 clearly autothrotling. Feb 11 21:28:34 QmFjMWRHV1hwaFNGcGFZV3R3U0ZWcVJtRmpNVnB6Vkcxc1UwMVZjRkpXYlRCNFRrWk5kMDFWWkZaaWF6VlpXV3hvVTFac2JISldiazVPVFZkME0xWXlNRFZXTVZwVlVteHNWMVl6UWxCV2FrRjRaRmRHU0dGR1ZtbFhSMmhOVjFSR1lWVXlUWGxTYTJSaFVqSjRXRmxVU1RSbFZscHhVbTF3YTAxc1draFdSbWh6VmxkRmVWVnNiRnBoTWxFd1dURmFWMlJIVGpaU2JHUlRZa2hCZDFaSGVGZFVNa3BJVTJ0a2FWSkdXbWhXYkdSU1pERmFkRTFWZEZkaVZUVkhWMnRhVjFZeFdYbGhTR3hYWWtaS1NGWXlNVmRrUmtweVYyeENWMkpyU2xsV1YzaFhaRzFXYzFkdVNsWmhNbEp2VkZaYWMwNUdhM2RXYlhSYVZtdHNObFpY Feb 11 21:28:39 ZUZOV1ZscFlWVmh3WVZZemFHaFpNbmh5WlcxR1JrOVdUazVTYmtKaFZteFNTazFXVVhoWGEyaFRZbXMxV1ZsclpEUlhSbXh6Vld0a1ZrMVlRbGxhVldoUFlXMUtSMk5HY0ZwV1YxSXpXVlphUzFaV1duTmpSbWhwVW14d1dGWkdXbXRTTVU1SFZHNU9hRkl5YUZSWmJGcExWMnhhZEUxVVVscFdNRFY2VmpJMVUxUnNXbGxWYkZKYVYwaENTRll5ZUZabFYxWkhWRzFvVTFaRldYaFhWbFpyWWpGWmVWTnNWbGRoYXpWWVdWZDBkMVZHYkRaVGEzUlRUVmRTTUZWdGVFOWhWbHB5WTBSU1YyRXhjR2haYWtaR1pVWk9jMXBHYUdsaGVsWjJWbFJDVmsxV1dYaGlTRTVYWWtkU1QxUldaREJOTVd4V1lVZDBXRkl3Y0ZkV01q Feb 11 21:28:41 you people are slow to your awords Feb 11 21:28:43 ieatlint, /part ! Feb 11 21:28:46 VnpWMnN4U0dGRmFGZE5ha1pIV2xWYVlXTldWbk5qUlRWWFRWVndTVll5ZUdGaE1WbDRVMjVLVDFadGFHOVZha28wVmtad1dFMVljR3ROVm5CNFZUSndRMVl3TVhKWGFrSlhZbGhTY2xsWGVFOVNhelZZVDFaV1YxSlhPSGRXYkZwaFYyMVJlRnBJVWxOaVdFSndWVzE0ZDA1R1dsaE5TR2hUVFZaS2VsWXlOVmRWYlVWNVZXeG9WbUZyTlhaWlZWcHpZMnh3Um1SR1RtbFdWRlpJVjFaV1lXRXhXWGROU0dSVVlrVmFXVlp0ZUdGaFJteFZVbXR3YkZKc1NucFphMlJIVlRKS1dHRklaRmRXTTBKTVdXcEdVMUl4WkhOWGJHaG9UVmhDVWxadE1UQlRNVlY0Vm10a1ZsZEhVbEpXVmxGM1QxRTlQUT09 Feb 11 21:28:50 wow Feb 11 21:28:51 wow, i didn't get kicked for that? Feb 11 21:28:53 oh for the love of people Feb 11 21:28:53 err, uh, sorry Feb 11 21:28:55 * ieatlint will go be quiet for a while to make up Feb 11 21:28:57 :P Feb 11 21:28:59 hehe Feb 11 21:28:59 nah Feb 11 21:29:08 ignore-ance is bliss ;) Feb 11 21:29:12 * marienz eyes ieatlint Feb 11 21:29:13 you are going to be kicked regardless Feb 11 21:29:17 possibly banned Feb 11 21:29:19 ieatlint: you bastard you Feb 11 21:29:30 i am a bastard Feb 11 21:29:31 in general Feb 11 21:30:05 how long is that url? Feb 11 21:30:20 it seems a bit useless, since some browsers are very limited on url length Feb 11 21:30:23 ieatlint, pastebin that url, i can't be arsed to stitch it together :D Feb 11 21:30:44 auke: kinda late now Feb 11 21:30:55 never late for a good kicking Feb 11 21:31:05 IIRC firefox was limited to 1k or 4k chars per URI Feb 11 21:31:08 friendly reminder on this tumultuous day to be considerate, and consider our IRC policies Feb 11 21:31:12 I kick anyone who pastes to much in the channel Feb 11 21:31:15 I then invite them back Feb 11 21:31:47 nobody has a short hint about how to enable input-method-keyboard? Feb 11 21:31:49 auke: never op yourself after playing GTA or Assassin's Creed Feb 11 21:32:09 lol CosmoHill Feb 11 21:32:15 hehe Feb 11 21:32:35 CosmoHill, drive-by kicks? Feb 11 21:32:45 yes, i apologise for flooding the channel Feb 11 21:33:18 i will try to follow nokia's lead and be respectful to those in here Feb 11 21:33:31 nokia's lead? Feb 11 21:33:48 ieatlint: are you going to marry a Microsoft employee or what? =) Feb 11 21:33:51 sarcasm isn't part of our IRC policies, but it is certainly frowned upon Feb 11 21:34:10 the apology was sincere, if that helps Feb 11 21:35:25 CosmoHill reading fc this we ? Feb 11 21:35:31 weekend? yes Feb 11 21:36:16 merlin1991: one moment Feb 11 21:36:19 ignoring is good Feb 11 21:37:31 just to distract, is tennis fan here ? Feb 11 21:37:40 how about a meego device program so devs can buy some improved hardware without installed OS Feb 11 21:37:51 probably - with 600 ppl there is bound to be a tennis fan here Feb 11 21:37:53 thinking of that n9 prototype leaked Feb 11 21:38:04 merlin1991: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/pastebin/index.php?h Feb 11 21:38:43 auke: 600 ppl but sleeping or bot, or microsoft spy :) Feb 11 21:40:05 now i think microsoft was afraid about meego promises Feb 11 21:40:27 may be Feb 11 21:41:00 merlin1991: 8 seconds well spent :) Feb 11 21:41:04 it may be microsoft's move againts meego Feb 11 21:41:09 Looks like Intel is pushing a MeeGo phone Feb 11 21:41:39 When? Feb 11 21:41:44 fendel: if this is true i demand a green card !!!! :) Feb 11 21:41:48 velope: yeah, elop was a trojan horse xD Feb 11 21:42:13 niala1: I was a bit fast.. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/intel_sticks_with_meego/ Feb 11 21:42:35 intel doesn't make smartphones Feb 11 21:42:37 niala1: heh Feb 11 21:42:54 niala1: Intel says they supports MeeGo *and* that it will be a phone with Intel hardware. BUT they do not specify OS Feb 11 21:43:07 niala1: Intel supports all major linux platforms Feb 11 21:43:31 we all knew Intel would always push MeeGo, it was and is their platform.. Nokia would have provided its expertise on the handset UX (and will do) Feb 11 21:43:58 I don't see anything changing from the Intel point of view... that is,exactly, disappointment ... Feb 11 21:44:20 I wouldn't bet on the part in () Feb 11 21:45:12 Nokia hasn't decided yet .. as eFlop ...erm Elop said, this is a transitional period for Nokia. They needed a stable OS until things clear in their mind... Wp7 or MeeGo? Feb 11 21:45:33 WP7 is here now, so they went for it.. MeeGo will be here later.. so they wait and they continue to experiment as they did with Maemo Feb 11 21:45:39 so given companies aside, if we make meego amazing as we can through the community evolution will prevail, that is wp7 has to prove itself in the market so until this has not happened I think we cannot yet say that meego is gone in Nokia Feb 11 21:45:48 except wp7 wont be on nokia phones for a year Feb 11 21:45:58 anidel: exactly Feb 11 21:46:19 i can't see the point in nokia doing this at all Feb 11 21:46:20 lpotter: in that time meego becomes amazing and ripe, and nokia ndever sells wp7's :) Feb 11 21:46:27 what does WP7 do better than symbian3? Feb 11 21:46:38 pupnik: getting US carrier market share Feb 11 21:46:38 and if they give something to MeeGo with the next N9, then I am happy.. as "we" community will still have a choice between those closed source alternatives Feb 11 21:46:39 pupnik: crash? Feb 11 21:46:41 :D Feb 11 21:47:01 pupnik, a lot.. Symbian still crashes and the UI is old.. Symbian wasn't born to be scalable Feb 11 21:47:11 lpotter: First Nokia tells their N900 customers that they are screwed. Then they do not communicate much at all. Then they tell all their customers that what ever they buy the coming year will be unsupported soon... Feb 11 21:47:16 WP7 is... and, actually,I like it a lot.. they did a great job.. but it's very very closed source Feb 11 21:47:28 think,,linux start with no vendors............. Feb 11 21:47:28 but he was a very good hacker.... i m not... not at all..... Feb 11 21:47:33 fendel, everyone knew the N900 was a transitional device Feb 11 21:47:36 symbian should have been axed a long time ago. Feb 11 21:48:14 symbian is not the problem, the ui on symbian is Feb 11 21:48:16 MrCase, true, but it takes guts to cut something you've spent billions in... with no alternative.. they had Maemo, they might have been pushing more on it Feb 11 21:48:39 anidel: Yes, but Nokia would have made it a bit easier for them self if they had communicated some kind of support for MeeGo on the unit. It would not make a huge difference anyway. But it would have given them a lot less negativity Feb 11 21:48:42 lpotter, I ad a N8 for a month.. crashes were common.. it was crashing more than I was drinking glasses of water every day Feb 11 21:48:53 a whole product pallette of maemo phones in 2009 Feb 11 21:48:58 lpotter: I can not see the problem of Symbian either Feb 11 21:49:31 fendel, what do you mean some kind of support for MeeGo on the unit? Feb 11 21:50:01 anidel: This was the clear message: We do not care about your needs or wishes. Your time invested is gone. Feb 11 21:50:11 anyway... Nokia had to make a decision.. I don't approve it.. but I guess they were forced to do it and MS made a very nice deal for them.. Feb 11 21:50:16 http://twitter.com/#!/nokia - this is so sad. Feb 11 21:50:46 no one is going to code for an already dead symbian, no one for just 2 maemo/meego phones. Feb 11 21:50:48 fendel, false.. they did care..at least the team working on Maemo and MeeGo.. but for Nokia as a whole, it was and is still an experiment.. Feb 11 21:50:50 anidel: It would be nicer with something like: We have changed our strategy. We will help to ensure a smooth transition. The test users and developers will get a upgrade path Feb 11 21:51:16 ok forgot nokia, continue meego, but Qt..... ? difficult to know now Feb 11 21:51:18 anidel: A lot of users and developers has written about this the last year Feb 11 21:51:45 fendel, miscommunication has always been an issue.. Feb 11 21:51:51 I don't defend them Feb 11 21:52:04 I'm just tying to grasp this partnership ... Feb 11 21:52:22 as I see it... MeeGo with its OSS roots was too slow for them... too slow to deliver Feb 11 21:52:35 may be :) Feb 11 21:52:38 It's madness Feb 11 21:53:13 so, that's it about meego Feb 11 21:53:17 what a pity. Feb 11 21:53:32 well they were in a corner.. Symbian didn't deliver, Maemo was ready, but for some reason they didn't believe in it or they though merging it in MeeGo would make more sense.. it does, but that meant another year thrown awat Feb 11 21:53:33 away Feb 11 21:53:45 indeed maemo was ready Feb 11 21:54:00 so they had to choose... and went for WP7. I might like that.. as I like WP7, but for us in the OSS word, it's a bad news. Feb 11 21:54:14 anidel: MeeGo was slow because of lack of resources and management support. Linux and other major open source projects are not slow Feb 11 21:54:27 but I guess the stock went down for different reason.. Nokia lost a piece of its identity Feb 11 21:54:31 correct fendel Feb 11 21:54:38 no committment behind meego Feb 11 21:54:49 just lawyers and trademarks. no hardcore team Feb 11 21:54:51 fendel, MeeGo is slow because of too many entities driving it... as I said , democracy can be a bitch Feb 11 21:55:21 Would be nice to know what Ubuntu camp thinks about Qt integration, is there enough will power to carry on Qt platform and tools by someones Feb 11 21:55:21 anidel: That is a management problem. Linus Thorvalds deals with those issues all the time with not much slow down Feb 11 21:55:22 but anyway.. they made this choice Feb 11 21:55:37 fendel, look at the status of the Desktop Linux... Feb 11 21:55:42 forget canonical. Feb 11 21:55:45 so many developers.. and still... Feb 11 21:55:53 After nokia departure who are the "leading figures" for a possible future plan of meego about market strategies? Feb 11 21:56:26 anidel: right Feb 11 21:56:39 and remember, MeeGO is NOT a Nokia product.. they depended on others... that was, to me, the main mistake in merging Maemo in MeeGo Feb 11 21:57:06 true, they could've branched off somehow... but still .. I think that process is very slow and they are still grasping how to manage it Feb 11 21:57:23 not something you would base a huge company as Nokia Feb 11 21:57:35 for me maemo was the mistake. Feb 11 21:57:41 so they still use Symbian as a cash cow as long as it lasts Feb 11 21:57:46 anidel: No major player with a clear goal. Red Hat has been running the shows since 1998: http://web.archive.org/web/19981202001113/www.labs.redhat.com/projects.shtml Feb 11 21:57:50 waiting for WP7 and MeeGo to deliver Feb 11 21:58:11 fendel, but how is their desktop compared to Windows 7 or Mac OS X? Feb 11 21:58:19 I've been using Linux since 0.99pl13 ! Feb 11 21:58:20 anidel: Red Hat has been the main player on the Linux desktop. A company with no special interests in it. Feb 11 21:58:26 I don't think maemo was the mistake Feb 11 21:58:36 dotblank, was the mistake to drop it Feb 11 21:58:42 the mistake was to drop it :) Feb 11 21:58:48 well yea Feb 11 21:59:09 I might offend someone, but writting gnome-apps is a pain Feb 11 21:59:13 but who are we to judge ... after all we're not even end users (at least not me :P) Feb 11 21:59:18 * pupnik agrees with anidel Feb 11 21:59:43 dotblank: MeeGo is more or less ready to go. Two things lacking: 1) Testing by mass market (always some issues) 2) More important: Needed a functional ecosystem Feb 11 22:00:06 dotblank: 2) Like a app-store with apps Feb 11 22:00:24 anyway... I always like Maemo since the 770 and being very active in it... I will see what MeeGo brings ... then.. we'll see. .it's a shame.. Maemo meant a lot... was what I was waiting for on a mobile device.. Feb 11 22:00:29 well I hope intel kicks destroys the tablet market then Feb 11 22:00:53 app-stores stink Feb 11 22:01:04 maemo's setup has better software Feb 11 22:01:06 anidel, except now Nokia's not going to be driving MeeGo's ecosystem and market development. Feb 11 22:01:09 Well app repos don't Feb 11 22:01:11 Intel's focused on the Netbook (weird), still there's nothing on the Tablet side (even weirder) and now it depended on Nokia for the Handset side... hopefully, Nokia will deliver that at least! Feb 11 22:01:16 Which doesn't leave me much faith in its future. Feb 11 22:01:19 I think (with my short experience) MeeGo started to look or feel something and maybe getting also a little bit hype (at least in point of view of developer) Feb 11 22:01:27 However much handwaving Intel may do. Feb 11 22:02:01 GAN900, MeeGo will continue to evolve as Moblin did so far... issue is: will there be MeeGo handset? will Intel step up and bring us hw for the handset UX? Feb 11 22:02:15 in case Nokia decides to drop it, of course Feb 11 22:02:55 there are still the car-manufacturer. I think they might have an interest in ivi Feb 11 22:03:14 anidel, Intel sells to OEMs. Feb 11 22:03:16 I don't really care about IVI, I can't bring my car to the office for a tweet :p Feb 11 22:03:23 anidel: I see Plasma Netbook as something for the netbook Feb 11 22:03:34 Intel. Could Intel make a phone perhaps? Feb 11 22:03:38 there is also ubuntu and unity Feb 11 22:03:50 see, democracy :) too much choise, lack of focus Feb 11 22:03:51 I don't see the pooint of netbook meego Feb 11 22:03:59 anidel: hehe Feb 11 22:04:02 look at what HP has now... Feb 11 22:04:05 IVI sounds really nice to me. Feb 11 22:04:11 it's more than Apple and Google have.. a scalable OS Feb 11 22:04:12 GAN900: to me as well Feb 11 22:04:25 that should hve been Maemo first and MeeGo todat Feb 11 22:04:25 and the tablet-market might be a target for meego too Feb 11 22:04:26 today Feb 11 22:04:31 GAN900: wish there was more hardware for testing through the community though Feb 11 22:04:56 does anyone of you know how to access the calendar on the n900, preferably via python (pyside)? Feb 11 22:05:07 dotblank: I see the 2011/2012 netbook as a tablet with a keyboard. Mostly a tablet Feb 11 22:05:27 Intel doesn't know how to make software..they lack a proper UI team... I don't see the first MeeGo handset UX (as we see it today) to be that fancy for example... I may not care, but people will Feb 11 22:05:42 I wished for a nice UI from Nokia.. they clearly did a great job on Maemo Feb 11 22:05:50 and I still think we'll see it Feb 11 22:06:03 anidel: on the meego device later this year Feb 11 22:06:07 after all Nokia seems willing to play with THREE platforms Feb 11 22:06:11 yep Feb 11 22:06:11 I think intel is talent starved for programmers Feb 11 22:06:27 for linux and phone devs Feb 11 22:06:40 what can i say, i buy AMD for reasons :). Feb 11 22:06:47 :) Feb 11 22:06:57 another thing I blame on Nokia Feb 11 22:07:03 dotblank: Intel have developers and manager that understand open source. One respected leader in Open Source do work for them. He also happens to have a MBA Feb 11 22:07:07 was to go DOWN to a mobile phone with the N900 Feb 11 22:07:09 Intel advertises meego jobs all over my facebook page Feb 11 22:07:12 instead of keeping it as a tablet Feb 11 22:07:26 but that is personal : Feb 11 22:07:28 :) Feb 11 22:07:58 dotblank, clearly they should be hiring from Nokia, then. Feb 11 22:08:10 dotblank: He also looks like he might be in family with a guy that many finish people lives in Finland: Santa Claus Feb 11 22:08:23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Cox Feb 11 22:08:26 GAN900, :) indeed Feb 11 22:08:41 * GAN900 tries not to rage. Feb 11 22:09:08 I'm listening to the Q&A of today's event... Is quite funny. Elop claims that nokia will continue to support symbian, but also meego, and focus on windows... if you are a software developer and you need to be sustained, please ask, there's room for everyone. Feb 11 22:09:29 nokia has been advertizing meego jobs just as well Feb 11 22:09:31 until today Feb 11 22:09:57 yup... that's why I think they'll do release a phone... for them is a "why not"? Feb 11 22:10:18 all that R&D out the window Feb 11 22:10:21 I don Feb 11 22:10:26 't think thats the case Feb 11 22:11:21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U Feb 11 22:11:22 ROFL Feb 11 22:11:24 ;-) Feb 11 22:12:17 http://www.hs.fi/english/article/More+than+1000+Nokia+employees+walk+out+in+Tampere+in+protest+at+Symbian+phase-out/1135263743059 Feb 11 22:12:43 MrCase: will it play mp3's or all sorts of codecs? ogg? :) Feb 11 22:12:58 but this was because of Symbian.. the whole company was based on Symbian and now you drop it? Feb 11 22:13:10 sivang: :-) Feb 11 22:13:25 that means, I guess, that many will lose their job as those positions are now being outsourced to MS Feb 11 22:13:36 sivang: wondering what happened to ffmpeg ogg decoder on the n900. Feb 11 22:13:52 MrCase: stayst the same, mameo is in the hands of the community council thank god Feb 11 22:14:02 MrCase: and there just bee community SSU started Feb 11 22:14:11 I gotta get myself a N900 again Feb 11 22:14:34 sivang: not sure i like the idea. the community SSU broke a couple of things from what i have read. Feb 11 22:15:19 MrCase: so did nokia updates, updates break things sometimes :) Feb 11 22:15:37 MrCase, no they didn't... what did they break? it's working just fine here Feb 11 22:15:44 let me look it up. Feb 11 22:16:07 Gimme a N901 with 1500mAh and speakers that don't break Feb 11 22:16:19 want mine? :) Feb 11 22:16:20 anidel: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU_notes Feb 11 22:16:34 hirabayashitaro: Where did you find the Q&A? on conversations.nokia.com ? Feb 11 22:16:44 anidel: selling a n900? what kbd layout? Feb 11 22:16:50 pr3 at start broke something, I don't remember what Feb 11 22:16:54 they're normal bugs... where's the actual issue? PR1.3 had bug of itself.. so ? Feb 11 22:16:57 well not for all of people Feb 11 22:17:00 no, it's just the video of the conference (?) Feb 11 22:17:06 on nokia/press Feb 11 22:17:09 pupnik, I was kidding :) but I may be tempted :P Feb 11 22:17:28 MrCase: community SSU will be good trust me. I Know the guy behind it and he is very serious about it :) Feb 11 22:17:29 anidel: okay. then "Product: Maemo 5 Community SSU" is misleading in the ticket system. Feb 11 22:17:37 anidel: well, the packager Feb 11 22:18:08 yep.. he is.. I've have provided a patch myself and was just included for the next release... Feb 11 22:18:26 sivang: glad to hear that. tbh i just started using my n900 2 days ago properly. before it was not usable. but after applying some kernel settings found on maemo.org it runs smoothly. Feb 11 22:19:12 Seeing Ballmer on youtube just makes the announcement that much more gut wrenching. Feb 11 22:19:12 MrCase, also the CSSU is bringing to us many newer versions ot the modules, courtesy of Nokia.. they continued to fix issues for a while after PR1.3 Feb 11 22:20:29 DrGrov: here: javascript:; Feb 11 22:20:54 MrCase: what kernel settings? Feb 11 22:20:59 DrGrov: sorry.. http://tiny.cc/rb056 Feb 11 22:21:08 MrCase: what were the issues? Feb 11 22:21:51 sivang: device not responsive, prolly swapping too much. Feb 11 22:21:59 sivang: http://crymore.de/rehosted/N900/tuning Feb 11 22:22:09 The recruit is on at #symbian. Interesting to say the least. Some Facebook stuff going on there Feb 11 22:23:24 Per_n900: I see you jumped the train to #symbian Feb 11 22:23:58 DrGrov: Yeah, thought I would check things out a little :) Feb 11 22:24:19 Per_n900: That guy seems like a big joke though Feb 11 22:24:44 yes Feb 11 22:24:47 did Nokia say anything about MeeGo's future? Feb 11 22:24:47 IQ heheh Feb 11 22:24:59 He gotta be a retard with an IQ of 12,2 Feb 11 22:25:04 Or even perhaps 1,22 Feb 11 22:25:05 linuxplatform: yes, it is a research project for the next disruptive technology Feb 11 22:25:10 pisses me of that they chose Microsoft!! Feb 11 22:25:16 linuxplatform: with phone releasedlater this year Feb 11 22:25:30 linuxplatform: so don't just through your hopes yet Feb 11 22:25:37 sivang, yeah? Feb 11 22:25:53 Why Elop ended to be the CEO of Nokia? I must have missed something. Feb 11 22:26:32 This seems like a good read :http://www.appleoutsider.com/2011/02/11/nokia/ Feb 11 22:28:36 [UPDATE: Former Microsoft exec Chris Weber has just been named President of Nokia Inc. (US). This is a coup, folks.] Feb 11 22:28:38 wow... Feb 11 22:30:45 anidel: thanks for the link Feb 11 22:31:10 di niente Feb 11 22:31:57 let's do some live coding for the n900. Feb 11 22:32:00 to celebrate this day. Feb 11 22:35:17 How functional is a MeeGo phone as of today? Feb 11 22:35:30 Compared with Maemo Feb 11 22:36:49 people who have the phone can't tell you about it Feb 11 22:37:18 and clearly it's not ready, or it would've been released Feb 11 22:38:35 Not so clear to me. A lot of reasons why a project stalls Feb 11 22:38:55 have you seen any project not release *after* they're ready? Feb 11 22:39:08 "we're waiting for the right sign of the zodiac" Feb 11 22:39:11 thiago_home: It's only my humble opinion, but I think meego on handset should be made ready for existing devices to abtract some attention on it, and thenperfected Feb 11 22:39:14 * simula guesses that's as close to thiago telling you he has a meego phone as you get Feb 11 22:39:43 yes, I have one Feb 11 22:39:53 I can't tell you anything about its state or technical details Feb 11 22:40:30 http://www.sharpley.org.uk/node/11 - Clearly maemo components are coming to KDE Feb 11 22:40:31 is it good ? :) Feb 11 22:40:51 I like it and I'll buy one when it's out Feb 11 22:40:57 gstreamer, telepathy, pulseaudio, and so on Feb 11 22:41:08 i.e., never. Feb 11 22:41:23 fendel: I have one, and tested meego on it. It's absolutely not usable for consumes use yet Feb 11 22:42:13 Anyone know when the E7 is coming to the US? Feb 11 22:43:32 blizzow: this is not a nokia channel and the e7 is not a meego device Feb 11 22:44:27 hirabayashitaro: That is interesting as long as it is build on mostly the same components as maemo, gnome, and kde. Feb 11 22:44:45 what was I thinking asking such a question? Feb 11 22:45:45 "ImportError: No module named QtDeclarative" is there some additional magic needed with pyside? Feb 11 22:46:12 i have installed the stuff from http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/cgoncalves:/pyside:/shiboken/openSUSE_11.3/x86_64/ Feb 11 22:46:16 MrCase, try "import silverlight" ;-) Feb 11 22:46:23 haha :) Feb 11 22:46:31 no, thanks, i only do real c++ on windows. Feb 11 22:46:46 what is silverlight btw? Feb 11 22:47:02 is it like WRT? Feb 11 22:47:06 fendel: Well, I'm not aware of technical stuff, I see your point but cannot answer properly Feb 11 22:47:11 sivang, the new future Feb 11 22:47:14 it's a stripped down version of wpf that is a browser plugin from ms Feb 11 22:47:31 sivang: competition for flash. Feb 11 22:47:32 wpf? Feb 11 22:47:50 windows presentation framework... the successor to windows forms Feb 11 22:48:03 but nokia devices were among the few running flash natively and properly such that even iphone couldn't Feb 11 22:48:05 a programming framework... kinda like Qt, but stuck on a single platform Feb 11 22:48:17 simula: I see Feb 11 22:48:18 and c# instead of c++ Feb 11 22:48:18 hirabayashitaro: I see many potential issues regarding multitouch, touch friendliness, and so on. But I have not tried it Feb 11 22:48:29 and a much more horrible markup language Feb 11 22:48:41 I see Feb 11 22:49:57 fendel: I tryied it on an n900 phone, and found the graphics rough, had some problems with connection, and missing functionality to some basic services for a phone. I suppose you can find all you need by bugtracking tool Feb 11 22:51:36 thiago_home: I just hope we will have the OVI sprint and qt dev days this year as last year. THis is my wish for tonight :) Feb 11 22:51:46 thiago_home: I've never seen such an aspiring event to developers Feb 11 22:51:53 thiago_home: educating and stiulating Feb 11 22:51:57 *stimulating Feb 11 22:52:15 fendel: At a system level I really can not judge, and I think that various software could be implemented easily due to the fact that everything shares some common components with other open source projects, but I'm not sure of it Feb 11 22:52:24 my wish too Feb 11 22:53:50 I'm really sorry but... http://www.elop.org/ lol Feb 11 22:56:18 hirabayashitaro: :) I will test it myself. Thanks Feb 11 22:56:21 I am new in the area but cannot properly understand what takes so long to make MeeGo releases. Feb 11 22:56:31 that's a london phone number... Feb 11 22:57:20 velope: Me either. Could be management issues Feb 11 22:58:22 velope: Maemo is a working phone. Basically the same communication components as MeeGo? Qt has been used on phones before.. Feb 11 22:58:30 I guess that if someone knew, they'd be making a lot of money now Feb 11 22:59:47 or MeeGo would be out and we happy. Feb 11 23:00:08 fendel: I think it is due to the fact that maemo is not open source, and so many things has to be rewritten Feb 11 23:02:56 hirabayashitaro: Strange, but worth a look. :-) Thanks Feb 11 23:04:03 anybody watched the share value? Feb 11 23:04:04 hm, I don't buy that shit from nokia today... Feb 11 23:04:36 its been a microsoft event, with nokia beeing guest. Feb 11 23:05:06 Could it be so that there is something even bigger coming up later? Feb 11 23:05:14 thiago_home: are qt devs being let go too? Feb 11 23:05:19 sivang, Down 14% Feb 11 23:05:20 no Feb 11 23:05:27 no one is losing their jobs in our team Feb 11 23:05:41 thiago_home: thats a relief. Feb 11 23:05:51 Nokia down 14%. Microsoft down 1% Feb 11 23:05:54 thiago_home: Are you the person that resigned yesterday? Feb 11 23:06:00 no Feb 11 23:06:05 Oh sorry Feb 11 23:06:08 let's not make rushed decisions Feb 11 23:06:14 I just thought I recognized the name Feb 11 23:06:29 qt lives on, and we'll need time to digest the news Feb 11 23:06:34 please be patient with us Feb 11 23:06:41 thiago_home: I wonder what it means for qt app devels if ovi is merged into ms's app stores.. Feb 11 23:06:59 sivang: again, we'll need time to map out the future Feb 11 23:07:04 yes Feb 11 23:07:08 thiago_home: Can I ask a minor thing since you obviously are working for Nokia? Feb 11 23:07:15 DrGrov: you can ask Feb 11 23:07:19 I don't promise to answer Feb 11 23:07:19 The market response to the Microsoft deal: Google up 1.3%. MSFT down 0.91%. Nokia down 13.97% Feb 11 23:07:30 INTC? Feb 11 23:07:42 well, lets be honest, before 1.2 MeeGo isn't ready for anything. Feb 11 23:07:44 fendel: the FT says it's because Elop said it's a 2-year changeover plan Feb 11 23:08:09 so nokia needs a solution, and obviously, MS is paying quite well for taking WP7 Feb 11 23:08:10 thiago_home: Can consumers somehow make a mass complaint to Nokia for disrespectful comments? Feb 11 23:08:16 thiago_home: how about the meego team, is there any downsizing there? Feb 11 23:08:28 DrGrov: huh? Feb 11 23:08:28 wouldn't that be disrespectful, DrGrov ? :) Feb 11 23:08:30 thiago_home: that is the only hole forme with my theory this is just to buy time for when meego is ripe to be back :) Feb 11 23:08:49 Oh damn, sorry. Not intended to write it in that way. Feb 11 23:08:50 thiago_home: Make sense to me. Uncertainty and change. Feb 11 23:08:54 trumee: I don't know of any decisions regarding them. All I know outside our org is what's been said in the public. Feb 11 23:09:03 I don't think thiago_home knows anything about the planned layoffs. Feb 11 23:09:05 thiago_home: I mean that complain to Nokia about being mistreated as a loyal customer Feb 11 23:09:18 how've you been mistreated DrGrov ? Feb 11 23:09:20 we have to wait on that one. thats just an announcement. Feb 11 23:09:24 DrGrov: you can do that. Feb 11 23:09:37 DrGrov: you can also make your decision known by not buying more nokia devices Feb 11 23:09:44 thiago_home: I can? Well that sounds like a very good idea. Feb 11 23:09:51 I personally plan on buying the nokia meego one when it comes out Feb 11 23:10:08 if it's anything like an improved n900, i'm all over it like a dog in heat Feb 11 23:10:10 I've got from Nokia an N8, its shitty imho. Feb 11 23:10:14 thiago_home: I would like a MeeGo phone Feb 11 23:10:27 so only mobile I would buy from nokia, would be a MeeGo phone. Feb 11 23:10:30 pupnik: I have been mistreated since I have bought all my phones on 1st day of release. The N97, N900 and N8 and still the consumer needs are not answered. Just ignored again and again Feb 11 23:10:55 thiago_home: This would be actually what I thought to do. No more Nokia devices unless there is a Meego device coming out. Feb 11 23:10:56 if its as free as the N900, so you can flash easily new SW for MeeGo. Feb 11 23:11:00 DrGrov: you buy devices, and then expect them to change? that's like a woman expecting to change a husband. :) Feb 11 23:11:01 DrGrov: the n97 was a disaster, it's recognised publicly. The n900 is a developer device, so don't expect anything more than that. Feb 11 23:11:01 thiago_home: MeeGo phone will be good, however will there be anybody around to do bug fixes for it in the future, is the question? Feb 11 23:11:17 thiago_home: did you justsay that? :) Feb 11 23:11:20 thiago_home: I not been a Windows desktop users since before 2000, but I can see myself buy a MeeGo phone Feb 11 23:11:29 ... or will there be enough application developers for MeeGo ... Feb 11 23:11:32 the only way for me to buy another nokia would be if it was like the n900 Feb 11 23:11:32 thiago_home: Yes, the N97 was a complete disaster. Feb 11 23:11:40 me too openstandards Feb 11 23:11:42 but meego driven... Feb 11 23:11:45 thiago_home: But how about the future for the N8 then? Just dump and leave, that's it? Feb 11 23:11:51 n8 is what n97 should've been Feb 11 23:11:58 Ari's latest blog rubbing Nokias nose in it... Feb 11 23:12:00 DrGrov: I can't tell you anything Feb 11 23:12:08 Milhouse: link? Feb 11 23:12:16 http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/ Feb 11 23:12:17 openstandards, What I want is a developer device Feb 11 23:12:21 pupnik: Yes of course. No I don't expect the device to change but that Nokia will keep their god damn promises to their customers Feb 11 23:12:26 Vodafone's selection for pay as you go customers is tantalisingly dull Feb 11 23:12:28 "We have ambitious goals. We will make webOS a winning mobile operating system. We will create an exciting ecosystem with developers and other partners. We are very committed, we have products in the pipeline, and we do not hesitate. We control our own destiny, and that is what matters in life. Right?" Feb 11 23:12:29 what promise DrGrov ? Feb 11 23:12:38 what sucks about the n900 is it would of been a fantastic enterprise driven phone Feb 11 23:12:56 anything known about an Intel based MeeGo Phone? There were rumors about Aava... Feb 11 23:13:08 pupnik: About Symbian and the future of Symbian that it still will be the choice for the future. This was said earlier already during the same time of the launch of the N8. Feb 11 23:13:17 no doubt just rumors... Feb 11 23:13:27 thiago_home: I have to ask one thing though. You feel like you are working like a puppet for Nokia and now Microsoft? Feb 11 23:13:38 DrGrov: can you pleasestop? Feb 11 23:13:45 DrGrov: that's out of code of conduct Feb 11 23:13:54 just kick him. Feb 11 23:14:01 DrGrov: I will not commenton that. Feb 11 23:14:33 sorry I took that long, I'm actually really busy today Feb 11 23:14:47 thanks auke Feb 11 23:15:15 Well, I just heared a Troll say (in Munich, October'10, Qt DevDays): "We make the software, to turn your (nokias) bricks into something useful" ;) Feb 11 23:15:32 thiago_home: :-) Do not feel bad about your employers choice. It is their choice to change. It is your choice to reflect over that. Part of life :-) Feb 11 23:15:36 isn't that what all software does? Feb 11 23:15:43 qt-qml ml just shown something sad :/ Feb 11 23:15:50 fendel: I don't have to like the decision to understand it. Feb 11 23:16:03 thiago_home: :-) I perfectly agree Feb 11 23:16:10 phl0x81: Intel has stated that their silicon will be in a phone in 2011. It was in the announcement re meegos future, but they did not say if it was meego or not Feb 11 23:16:32 nokia didn't say today that they gonna drop MeeGo. so... Feb 11 23:16:41 thiago_home: indeed, I just figured OVI store change will be kept last, anyways stuff with OVI take lots of time , so that closes that hole :) Feb 11 23:16:43 MWC next week :D Feb 11 23:16:46 nokia said today that it will ship a meego phone this year Feb 11 23:17:09 nokia said that last year too... ;) Feb 11 23:17:26 they said they may ship Feb 11 23:17:35 google and hp hiring nokia devs. Feb 11 23:17:36 xD Feb 11 23:17:37 funny! Feb 11 23:17:39 thiago_home: I read it as Nokia will ship a MeeGo device this year Feb 11 23:17:56 thiago_home: a "meego-related device" *nitpicking* Feb 11 23:18:06 well, as I said, with 1.2 in April, is the first MeeGo Version afaik, that is interesting in beeing shipped on devices. Feb 11 23:18:10 MrCase, logical. A lot of good guys will leave now. Feb 11 23:18:13 jonnor: yes, harmattan. Just like before. Feb 11 23:18:16 mikhas: yes. Feb 11 23:18:24 i thought nokia just wanted to produce a tablet with meego Feb 11 23:18:26 A device might be anything from a GPS in a car to a pad Feb 11 23:18:49 elop said that nokia may ship a tablet, using any OS (i.e. not windows) Feb 11 23:19:48 openstandards: A tablet can be OK. N810 was ok Feb 11 23:20:14 fendel: a tablet is no use for me thou Feb 11 23:20:16 New startegy for long-term success: announce a long-term strategic vision bianually. Feb 11 23:20:17 But I want a more general and portable communication device (phone) Feb 11 23:20:28 fendel: same here Feb 11 23:20:42 WP7 kills off the rest of the communicator business Feb 11 23:20:59 alternative, NOK bus DataVision and builds OviOffice Feb 11 23:21:07 okay... this is now back into the part that I must sit back and not talk Feb 11 23:21:09 Why do we still call a "smart phone" a "phone"? It is a PDA with some phone functionality or a pocket computer Feb 11 23:21:12 so I'll just go to bad Feb 11 23:21:14 fendel: the only tablet i'd consider getting would be that one that has the same display as the olpc Feb 11 23:21:25 bed Feb 11 23:21:28 <[Rui]> fendel: IMHO smartphones are dumb computers Feb 11 23:21:30 fendel: xda :P Feb 11 23:21:32 openstandards: The OLPC has a nice screen Feb 11 23:21:45 :) Feb 11 23:21:50 <[Rui]> nowadays limited interfaces like Android or iPhoney or winPhoney are the suxor Feb 11 23:22:01 <[Rui]> fendel: I love the olpc screen Feb 11 23:22:09 fendel: i like the fact its more like an e-ink display..readable in sunlight Feb 11 23:22:15 <[Rui]> I only wish I could get my hands on a olpc 1.5 board Feb 11 23:22:50 or, Wayland compositor, Qt toolkit and phone api, ofono backend, Android compatibility Feb 11 23:23:02 [Rui]: :). I am considering getting a OLPC 1.5 or so for my 2 year old Feb 11 23:23:08 <[Rui]> to upgrade my olpc 1 one. Feb 11 23:24:04 Well. Feb 11 23:24:08 [Rui]: We have family 20+ hours travel from home. Would be nice as a "grandma communication device" Feb 11 23:24:27 thiago_home: I do apologize for the question. It was not meant as a insult or a personal attack on you. Feb 11 23:26:57 answered a post in meego-kernel that as encouraging Feb 11 23:27:21 now good night al and I Suggest others to do the same Feb 11 23:27:49 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/exclusive-nokias-windows-phone-7-concept-revealed/ Feb 11 23:27:53 OMG disgusting Feb 11 23:28:56 good night sivang Feb 11 23:29:16 GOD Damnit!!! Feb 11 23:29:22 goddamit Nokia!!! Feb 11 23:29:27 what the hell! Feb 11 23:29:29 lolloo: chill out Feb 11 23:29:48 i need chill pill Feb 11 23:29:51 Really makes one hate Nokia. Feb 11 23:29:54 gimmeeeeeeeeeee Feb 11 23:30:15 Looks like a phone to me. Feb 11 23:30:26 hehe Feb 11 23:30:38 Even if a MeeGo device comes out from them, I'm not sure I could bring myself to pay for it just on principle. Feb 11 23:31:02 but would it be nicer with "MeeGo" logo instead of what winlogo? Feb 11 23:31:07 that* Feb 11 23:31:26 i feel i want to cry. Feb 11 23:31:33 GAN900: hey, at least you'd know it was dead end ;) Feb 11 23:31:41 wait a week for that. Feb 11 23:31:48 hehe Feb 11 23:31:53 maybe its the best that could happen. Feb 11 23:31:58 maybe they'd be benevolent and release all of the sources, knowing they'll just leave it to rot (at microsoft's command) Feb 11 23:31:59 GAN900: I buy hardware from Dell, HP, IBM, Lenovo, and so on. They also push Microsoft Feb 11 23:32:05 maybe Feb 11 23:32:06 GAN900: Nokia is now a Dell Feb 11 23:32:10 yuck, not liking... Feb 11 23:32:26 Intel says, its not gonna drop MeeGo. HTC and other might now think different about the OS. Feb 11 23:32:29 GAN900: But I do not run Windows Feb 11 23:32:49 i think the colour ideas is a good idea but thats the only thing nice really Feb 11 23:33:34 Keyboard please! Feb 11 23:34:26 yeah, since the n8 I know, why most Nokia Smartphones had a keyboard... Feb 11 23:34:49 Quite sad to see that the only thing which is important in this world is money. It is not about Nokia, it's a tendency. Feb 11 23:35:55 hirabayashitaro, I agree totally. Feb 11 23:36:21 :) Good night Feb 11 23:36:22 in defense, money is what keeps a roof over your head and keeps a family fed Feb 11 23:36:35 i owned nokia since when? 1998? Feb 11 23:36:59 night fendel Feb 11 23:37:27 night fendel Feb 11 23:37:27 <[Rui]> my last Nokia was a 2670 or something, after a 6600. and I only bought that one because I killed a long living 6600 with a 20 min swim :) Feb 11 23:37:47 <[Rui]> and I didn't buy a better one because OpenMoko was about to be on sale Feb 11 23:38:06 I have a bada phone, bada sucks in development, but I like it in its everyday usage. Feb 11 23:38:19 thats sad: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-February/481506.html Feb 11 23:38:29 I bought my phone inspired by the principles of community experience, collaboration, etc. Which I supposed to find on a linux based device. I was wrong. A product is a product. Feb 11 23:38:48 I am telling the truth, I never bought other than nokia phones. just once I bought SE COPT for its camera. Feb 11 23:38:51 hirabayashitaro: sadly +1 Feb 11 23:39:15 C905* Feb 11 23:39:57 I was going to buy the neo freerunner but decided against it and ended up with a n900 Feb 11 23:40:01 openstandards: sure money is important, but it is not the only thing one needs. And some years ago there were less roofs and more people under them Feb 11 23:40:27 openstandards: not to mention the fireplace :P Feb 11 23:41:44 money is not a goal, its a path Feb 11 23:42:32 yes, unofortunately money has still too much power. maybe in future, communities like this gains more importance. Feb 11 23:42:46 sorry for late question but what's the consensus here? Does Meego have a future? Feb 11 23:43:05 yes it will continue Feb 11 23:43:09 Cool Feb 11 23:43:16 Who owns it? Feb 11 23:43:16 yeah Feb 11 23:43:17 velope: linux start with no vendor :) Feb 11 23:43:26 N9 Feb 11 23:43:48 tarantism_: no one owns MeeGo, though the name and trademarks are held by the Linux Foundation Feb 11 23:43:55 OK Feb 11 23:44:03 lolloo: and what is the goal? Feb 11 23:44:08 Who wants it to succeed?? Feb 11 23:44:23 tarantism_: me? Feb 11 23:44:35 me too Feb 11 23:44:40 tarantism_: I would think most people in here would want it to succeed Feb 11 23:44:42 anyone else? Feb 11 23:44:47 N9 is successor to N900 open source better power and cpu. Feb 11 23:45:04 ok, most people in here - clear. Feb 11 23:45:30 thinking about doing our own phone. Feb 11 23:45:46 we don't have a major handset mfr any more. Feb 11 23:46:39 what would it cost, lets say to get a MeeGo Phone with G3 (UMTS) made in China? Feb 11 23:46:44 was inspired watching Egypt tonight Feb 11 23:46:56 may need mass action Feb 11 23:47:00 haha Feb 11 23:47:06 not kidding Feb 11 23:47:14 yeah, thought already about a revolution in Finland too... Feb 11 23:47:20 fendel, yes, but none of them have betrayed me like Nokia has. Feb 11 23:47:25 don't be daft Feb 11 23:47:27 drama! Feb 11 23:47:32 anonymous-meego lol Feb 11 23:47:43 opmeego :) Feb 11 23:47:48 talking about software revolution!!! Feb 11 23:47:58 Well, I can go bed I suppose, talk is degenerating Feb 11 23:48:04 indeed Feb 11 23:48:05 phl0x81: talk to the OpenMoko people :) Feb 11 23:48:11 wait wait Feb 11 23:48:11 see you! Feb 11 23:48:13 not trying to degenerate Feb 11 23:48:18 i am installing qt 4.7 Feb 11 23:48:20 so there is hope! Feb 11 23:48:32 bye hirabayashitaro Feb 11 23:48:48 niala1: see you soon! Feb 11 23:48:52 stay and talk Feb 11 23:49:12 hirabayashitaro: if elop dont kill me like freddy crueger Feb 11 23:49:19 in mz dreams Feb 11 23:49:24 my Feb 11 23:49:25 it's been a rough day. Nokia retreating seriously, my ISP keeps hanging up, my power fails. Feb 11 23:49:55 they didn't actually retreat from MeeGo. Feb 11 23:49:59 At least I'm not one of Mubarak's buddies. Feb 11 23:50:12 i thought nokia was going to push an open platofrm to mainstream Feb 11 23:50:18 Nokia didn't quit MeeGo, but I would say they reduced their engagement. Feb 11 23:50:37 berndhs: I'm sure that engagement will end when Ballmer says "endit " Feb 11 23:50:46 oh probably Feb 11 23:51:01 real open creativity needs an open platform Feb 11 23:51:25 where will it come from? Feb 11 23:51:27 lets see, if the sauna is not to hot for Mr. Elop ;) Feb 11 23:51:33 I don't really have a direct stake in it, but it's dissapointing still Feb 11 23:51:51 phl0x81: no sauna for him, he'll be in San Jose Feb 11 23:52:23 open source NEEDS to join forces Feb 11 23:52:32 err, what do you mean by that? Feb 11 23:52:39 open source also needs to remain diverse Feb 11 23:52:41 you can work on whatever you want Feb 11 23:52:45 there's a huge opportunity Feb 11 23:53:19 i don't like diverse Feb 11 23:53:26 i like coordinated Feb 11 23:53:38 you don't get progress without diversity Feb 11 23:53:39 waiting for canonical to do the next move ;) Feb 11 23:53:42 i'd appreciate it if meego lawyers didn't sue me and my friends for porting meego to other devices Feb 11 23:53:52 tarantism_: "open source NEEDS to join forces" <--- but in fact every compagnie use linux kernel but they do all anything else Feb 11 23:53:53 <[Rui]> tarantism_: then you don't understand this thing. Feb 11 23:54:06 pupnik you getting sued? Feb 11 23:54:13 <[Rui]> tarantism_: it's as if you're asking for all nature to be coordinated. Feb 11 23:54:18 rui please explain Feb 11 23:54:20 <[Rui]> tarantism_: wake up, it isn't and that's good. Feb 11 23:54:36 <[Rui]> tarantism_: you can have organized groups, but you can't have an organized universe. Feb 11 23:54:43 ok Feb 11 23:54:51 phl0x81: the trademark lawyers are highly aggressive against anyone releasing anything even derivative of the 'meego' name Feb 11 23:55:01 <[Rui]> tarantism_: and even organized groups, unless you *pay* you can't exactly demand a special kind of organization Feb 11 23:55:04 i suggest they get fired :) Feb 11 23:55:10 pupnik: because they want to reserve the meego name for devices that pass the compliance spec Feb 11 23:55:26 that's completely reasonable, as that's the purpose of meego Feb 11 23:55:29 i understand wmarone Feb 11 23:55:33 <[Rui]> tarantism_: that's why you have so many apps that do the same Feb 11 23:55:41 <[Rui]> tarantism_: that's why you have so many kinds of ants :) Feb 11 23:55:58 <[Rui]> those best fit in the specific market will thrive better Feb 11 23:55:59 they aren't stopping you from doing anything in terms of ports, so don't say that :P Feb 11 23:56:00 no demand for organisation. Did I mention egypt Feb 11 23:56:03 actually its kind of sad, that MeeGo may turn for Nokia Employees in YouGo... xD Feb 11 23:56:28 #scnr Feb 11 23:56:29 <[Rui]> phellarv: more than Meego employees, symbian ones. but those have had it coming for years.... Feb 11 23:56:42 phl0x81: not very funny Feb 11 23:57:04 the point is (isn't it) that without an open platform we're all screwed (wanting to slow down and get a beer) Feb 11 23:57:27 tarantism_ great Idea, I already have a beer! Feb 11 23:57:45 there's more to computing than phones :) Feb 11 23:57:48 niala1 well, sometimes I'm a bit to sarcastic... Feb 11 23:58:21 <[Rui]> tarantism_: there are really open platforms in development like FreeSmartphone (anti-vendor) ofono (pro-vendor, probably non-open when a device reaches an user's hands) and android (pro-vendor, normally non-open when a device reaches an user's hands) Feb 11 23:58:53 unless the open platforms come together they will never compete Feb 11 23:59:18 phl0x81: yes i understand don't want to blame you, just think of employees ( i m not) Feb 11 23:59:25 i got interested in meego because i thought that was happenning Feb 11 23:59:28 <[Rui]> I like the way ofono and fso work because they allow you to have a powerful computer with long lasting battery that fits in your pant's pockets, all they need is really slick phone and pim apps Feb 11 23:59:54 well, I'm selfemployed. could be working at nokia now, if I wanted, had an offer... Feb 12 00:00:04 <[Rui]> tarantism_: that's where you're very wrong, they can compete depending on the economic power of those in charge of it. Feb 12 00:00:18 LG GW990 is the intel phone i think everyone has been talking about Feb 12 00:00:25 <[Rui]> tarantism_: eg, the less open of the three platforms I mentioned is the most successful one. Feb 12 00:00:52 niala1 wanna quote offspring for a short one: "feeling, all those damn feelings, get out of my live..." Feb 12 00:00:59 -v +f Feb 12 00:01:06 <[Rui]> phl0x81: in hindsight, I'm glad I never tried to go work for Nokia :) Feb 12 00:01:10 isn't it that the best is most successful? Feb 12 00:01:18 <[Rui]> tarantism_: lol Feb 12 00:01:23 <[Rui]> tarantism_: so Windows is the best? Feb 12 00:01:37 no way Feb 12 00:01:38 Rui: oslo is to long to dark and cold for me... Feb 12 00:01:53 <[Rui]> tarantism_: that is true on a HUGE timeframe (centuries, millenia in biological terms). Feb 12 00:01:59 i've wasted huge amounts of time watiting for windows Feb 12 00:02:09 LG GW990 was shown a year ago right ? Feb 12 00:02:26 rzr: the GW990 can't do tethering, right? Feb 12 00:02:27 that's my problem Feb 12 00:02:29 <[Rui]> who knows how long it will take for the best to succeed in software... I know for sure it will be Free Software, but it may not even have been written yet. Feb 12 00:02:31 rzr, I guess that was just a mockup. Feb 12 00:02:54 rzr: i mean gw900 Feb 12 00:02:56 <[Rui]> tarantism_: waiting for windows? lol... I haven't seen Windows on any computer of mine since 97 or so Feb 12 00:02:59 pupnik: no idea Feb 12 00:03:09 <[Rui]> 1997 Feb 12 00:03:14 i'd buy one if it could tether Feb 12 00:03:21 100 euro is cheap Feb 12 00:03:25 finally gonna move windows this year to a VM. Feb 12 00:03:41 <[Rui]> pupnik: any phone can tether, if it's on a Free platform. Feb 12 00:03:52 <[Rui]> pupnik: only those in closed platforms need hacks Feb 12 00:04:09 MEEGO can be Feb 12 00:04:16 <[Rui]> pupnik: just set ip_forwarding and apply some masquerade iptables rule Feb 12 00:04:40 <[Rui]> god knows I have used my Freerunner's GPRS several times :) Feb 12 00:04:42 <[Rui]> on my laptop Feb 12 00:04:47 Apple/Google need a challenge Feb 12 00:05:05 How do we make it happen? Feb 12 00:05:26 <[Rui]> tarantism_: I expected Nokia to be a good backer, but apparently too much internal friction and civil war led to #elopcalypse Feb 12 00:05:38 agreed Feb 12 00:05:51 <[Rui]> Es vs Ns versus Maemo/Meego Feb 12 00:06:05 <[Rui]> now turned in WinPhoney (and rest is crap) Feb 12 00:06:26 rui - pick your head up Feb 12 00:06:43 morning Feb 12 00:06:50 need a plan Feb 12 00:06:50 that sneak preview n9 picture was beautiful Feb 12 00:07:04 <[Rui]> tarantism_: then do a plan :) start it Feb 12 00:07:07 <[Rui]> tarantism_: convince people Feb 12 00:07:13 <[Rui]> I have to go to bed now :=) Feb 12 00:07:22 i'd love to but i need help Feb 12 00:07:39 ok Feb 12 00:07:40 the c8 is also gorgeous... put an 800x480 screen on it and maemo5 Feb 12 00:07:45 <[Rui]> tarantism_: as in that cornkevin costner movie, if you built it, they will come Feb 12 00:07:54 hmmm Feb 12 00:08:03 <[Rui]> tarantism_: *this* is a *key* thing on Free Software. Good things attract people. Feb 12 00:08:18 <[Rui]> but you can't expect someone to coordinate. either take the job or stfu :) Feb 12 00:08:28 http://blog.laptopmag.com/intel-were-not-blinking-on-meego :) Feb 12 00:08:29 nokias designers can kick asia's butt Feb 12 00:08:37 <[Rui]> bye bye! Feb 12 00:08:39 * [Rui] afks. Feb 12 00:08:48 night [Rui] Feb 12 00:09:12 I don't believe in free software Feb 12 00:09:19 only free platforms Feb 12 00:09:40 i'll put all of my free time into helping to Feb 12 00:09:44 generate Feb 12 00:09:47 FREE Feb 12 00:09:47 only good looking thing from LG was designed in europe... http://www.gsmarenasi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/LG-GD880-Mini-3.jpg Feb 12 00:09:53 PLATFORMS Feb 12 00:09:56 pupnik, link for N9 preview? Feb 12 00:10:14 Or are you talking about the one that came out months ago (the prototype)? Feb 12 00:10:17 Termana: it's been floating around for months - that macbook-like device Feb 12 00:10:23 Ah right, the same one Feb 12 00:10:44 sexy :D Feb 12 00:14:18 ffs you're kidding me, there is no option to order the product by price Feb 12 00:17:17 stand up Feb 12 00:17:24 meego warriors Feb 12 00:17:36 are there any here? Feb 12 00:17:45 not all the time :P Feb 12 00:17:58 why not? Feb 12 00:19:07 i guess its gonna be quiet Feb 12 00:21:02 nokia and I'd imagine most meego people come from europe Feb 12 00:21:16 so it's kinda bed time for us Feb 12 00:21:28 me too Feb 12 00:21:29 who will sleep Feb 12 00:21:51 I'LL SLEEP WHEN I DIE Feb 12 00:24:16 heh Feb 12 00:25:13 or you'll die if you fall asleep ... Feb 12 00:25:46 ipad publicity on tv ... :/ Feb 12 00:26:00 there a some all over my town Feb 12 00:27:08 tarantism_, you never slept yet? Feb 12 00:27:12 a computer with no keyboard.... incredible and people buy that!! ... i don't understand human :) Feb 12 00:27:47 this is just a giant remote control to pay contents Feb 12 00:28:00 tarantism_, not to mention the 1500-or-so symbian Nokia workers that might have been interested in MeeGo, quitting their jobs. Feb 12 00:28:13 rzr: i m agree :) Feb 12 00:28:44 rzr: and to make content you must buy another computer... and people are happy Feb 12 00:29:13 no need to make when you can buy Feb 12 00:29:17 hi raster Feb 12 00:29:34 promising post on your homepage Feb 12 00:29:41 indeed Feb 12 00:29:48 the future relly on you Feb 12 00:29:52 -l Feb 12 00:30:26 Evening all Feb 12 00:30:34 rzr: moomooo! Feb 12 00:30:51 hi MeeGoExperts Feb 12 00:31:03 rzr: well not me... not sure "the future" is light enough for me to carry Feb 12 00:31:16 but there's a lot of others helping it along Feb 12 00:31:28 :-) Feb 12 00:31:35 well :-/ Feb 12 00:31:39 lol Feb 12 00:31:39 there are many pple to hire too :) Feb 12 00:32:11 hahahaha Feb 12 00:32:20 well... if they all want to move to korea... Feb 12 00:34:05 http://pics.nase-bohren.de/can-we-yes.jpg ;) Feb 12 00:34:57 awesome phl0x81 Feb 12 00:37:56 hey MeeGoExperts Feb 12 00:38:35 raster: will this X platform setup an online community website ? Feb 12 00:38:51 rzr: yes. Feb 12 00:38:52 or offline website Feb 12 00:38:54 :) Feb 12 00:39:12 at some point Feb 12 00:39:16 cant say what and when Feb 12 00:39:17 offline website..... Feb 12 00:39:18 ok tell us the url once it's ready :) Feb 12 00:39:20 * Termana troll face Feb 12 00:39:21 but it'd be stupidity NOT to have one Feb 12 00:39:23 :) Feb 12 00:39:29 Termana: yes that the future of the internet :) Feb 12 00:39:37 :p Feb 12 00:39:50 raster: stupidity is common these days Feb 12 00:40:09 Termana: look for dropbox Feb 12 00:40:16 not dropbox Feb 12 00:40:21 deaddrop Feb 12 00:40:30 that level of stupidity doesn't get past me Feb 12 00:40:32 :) Feb 12 00:40:55 Termana: http://deaddrops.com/ Feb 12 00:41:03 raster, anything (not a website) we might see in 2011? Feb 12 00:41:04 raster: at least you have the authority to stop stupidity in its tracks :) Feb 12 00:41:15 already have one as such Feb 12 00:41:18 http://innovator.samsungmobile.com/ Feb 12 00:41:34 swf Feb 12 00:41:43 sh! Feb 12 00:41:43 it just has nothing major on it for what we are doing yet as its not quite the right time :) Feb 12 00:41:57 Termana: i'm afraid i can't give you timeframes Feb 12 00:42:10 i'm one of the best peolpe at not giving timeframes so sammy is happy :) Feb 12 00:42:19 look at bada on this page : http://innovator.samsungmobile.com/sitemap.do Feb 12 00:42:30 lol Feb 12 00:42:31 no problem, I'll just beat you within an inch of your life to get it out of you Feb 12 00:42:32 kidding :p Feb 12 00:42:36 wmarone: i do. and i actually hang out and listen to people Feb 12 00:42:41 or try to in what time i can find Feb 12 00:42:59 so if people bitch about doing something bad - i generally take note :) Feb 12 00:43:06 good Feb 12 00:43:22 you should lead nokia :) Feb 12 00:43:25 i want to make as many people happy as i can Feb 12 00:43:29 you cant make everyone Feb 12 00:43:35 but you can try Feb 12 00:43:43 Hi CosmoHill … Sorry, drifted into Twitter for a bit Feb 12 00:44:10 np Feb 12 00:44:27 raster: better than nokia, who couldn't make anyone happy Feb 12 00:44:27 rzr: dont think the shareholders would let me :) Feb 12 00:44:31 Hows things around here ? Everyone upbeat ? Feb 12 00:44:32 looking at new phones, most websites seem to go "oh you're a pay as you go customer? here's a value selection" Feb 12 00:44:45 Lol Feb 12 00:44:50 tho i have spent the last 2 days dropping idle speculation on nokia's potential moves Feb 12 00:45:08 Who would have thought it. Feb 12 00:45:13 and when i read last night what elop decided.. it was the "worst of the options" that he chose Feb 12 00:45:26 Agree Feb 12 00:45:31 its funny - the stockmarket and pretty much every comment forum around seems to agree Feb 12 00:45:39 weird move if you ask me Feb 12 00:45:52 he should have put meego front and center as nokia's new primary os Feb 12 00:46:01 that would have been the smart money Feb 12 00:46:11 I've only bumpted into 2 people that think it was a good idea. The rest thought it was a load of Bollocks Feb 12 00:46:32 MeeGoBot: if you're feeling short on that, go read engadget Feb 12 00:46:33 wmarone: Sorry, I've no idea what 'if you're feeling short on that, go read engadget' might be. Feb 12 00:46:34 He took the easy option Feb 12 00:46:35 lol Feb 12 00:46:36 some people say "it was the only option" Feb 12 00:46:37 i disagree\ Feb 12 00:46:41 doh Feb 12 00:46:53 when u think nokia will able to release a wm7 device ? 2012 ? Feb 12 00:46:57 raster: no kidding, they're already in the 2012 timeframe Feb 12 00:46:58 and if they do Feb 12 00:47:14 rzr: i suspect they can manage one this year Feb 12 00:47:16 the week later they will announce that they'll drop win for android Feb 12 00:47:29 if they dont try and over-customize Feb 12 00:47:43 rzr: no, Elop was probably put in place explicitly so this would happen Feb 12 00:48:25 Warra bastard Feb 12 00:48:29 wmarone: but someone can take his place ... let's convice shareholder that rasterman can do a better job :) Feb 12 00:48:34 well this is nonsense Feb 12 00:48:43 either way Feb 12 00:48:52 nokia did need a major shift in its moves Feb 12 00:48:59 oh they did, definitely Feb 12 00:49:04 and this was meegos best chance to go from sideline os to primary star Feb 12 00:49:07 it lost out Feb 12 00:49:07 * araujo agrees with raster Feb 12 00:49:14 cleaning out the managerial space that crippled it would have helped Feb 12 00:49:27 now over time what theat means for meego, qt etc. etc. is not clear Feb 12 00:49:28 I doubt they would have walked out if he said "all you symbian people are now working on meego" Feb 12 00:49:30 meego would be much long term profitable in my opinion .... Feb 12 00:49:50 But instead of trying to play for the long term strategic game with MeeGo he fucked off and partnered with another company that needed help Feb 12 00:49:55 wmarone: i would suspect so too Feb 12 00:50:16 raster: meego is not nokia.... about qt i don't know and meego/qt .... Feb 12 00:50:24 wmarone: Nokia's problems aren't just managerial - Elop's memo also spoke about an organisation-wide lack of accountability - everyone thinks the obvious screwups are someone else's to deal with Feb 12 00:50:25 meg thats why the stockmarket has droped nokia stock - what? 10%? 14%? now Feb 12 00:50:28 in 1 day? Feb 12 00:50:34 wmarone: and tbh, I've seen it myself sometimes too Feb 12 00:50:59 niala1: i know it isnt. but nokia was the FLAGSHIP vendor to put meego on handsets and in the pockets of millions and millions of people Feb 12 00:51:04 there are some truly brilliant engineers I've worked with there, real heros, and some people who just work their allocated hours and count down the days to the weekend Feb 12 00:51:06 It's not exactly like we didn' Feb 12 00:51:06 even traders have understand that windows is bullshit lol Feb 12 00:51:07 shit Feb 12 00:51:07 Robot101: sure, but a shift of OSes won't fix that Feb 12 00:51:19 wmarone: true, but firing shitloads of people might - and they might do that too :/ Feb 12 00:51:19 raster: yes :( Feb 12 00:51:23 if nokia partnered with google and their android, this wouldn't have been so much of ruckus to begin with Feb 12 00:51:28 if nokia shipped many meego devices and showed it to be a viable handset platform... it would gain momentum and others would ship hangsets and join Feb 12 00:51:28 It's not exactly like we didn't REASONABLE suspect this might happen when Elop went from Microsoft to Nokia Feb 12 00:51:32 the graph showing R&D spend before and after symbian is kind of telling Feb 12 00:51:37 REASONABLY* Feb 12 00:52:04 i knwo full well that qt is open source, meego is, and so on -a nd that intel are still all in there for meego and you have amd, arm, Lg is playing around with it etc. Feb 12 00:52:35 but nokia joining in and makign meego with intel was a major feather in meego and qt's cap. Feb 12 00:52:47 that feather is now a small fluff ball, it would appear Feb 12 00:52:49 raster: LG play with meego ? Feb 12 00:52:54 niala1: i believe so Feb 12 00:52:57 if I look at bugzilla, most of the assignments are to people with intel addresses Feb 12 00:53:01 they were playng with atom and moblin Feb 12 00:53:01 I'm not sure that just peddling the status quo - MeeGo will be here soon and it will sort everything out - would've kept Nokia's investers happy Feb 12 00:53:10 nothing has actually surfaced tho Feb 12 00:53:19 because the stock market have too short memories and don't understand how long a device takes to produce Feb 12 00:53:31 and, because Nokia announced MeeGo too soon, IMO Feb 12 00:53:49 * araujo agrees with Robot101 there Feb 12 00:53:57 when Elop's memo saying "Nokia is screwed, we have to change something radeically" leaked - Nokia's share price *rose* Feb 12 00:54:05 Robot101: what elop did made them very much unhappy Feb 12 00:54:10 i hope in futur we can buy nokia and erase win7phone like we do when we buy a netbook....... Feb 12 00:54:15 or n900 Feb 12 00:54:17 I don't actually see it as a bad thing for Nokia Feb 12 00:54:26 niala1: a better thing is to buy solutions that you don't have to fight Feb 12 00:54:40 * CosmoHill looks at sony phones Feb 12 00:54:42 imagine the price fall if he did not announce the laid off :) Feb 12 00:54:46 sharemarket disagrees... Feb 12 00:54:47 http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NOA3.DE Feb 12 00:54:49 down 14% Feb 12 00:54:58 in terms of ecosystem, MS has a lot more to spend on WP7 (and has) and proven track record with developers, than Nokia's Ovi efforts so far Feb 12 00:55:13 and large companies - large caps like that .. if they move 14% in a day.. without a general stockmarket dump... says something big. Feb 12 00:55:30 what do you think would've made them act differently? Feb 12 00:55:44 i am surprised none talk about m$novel partnership too Feb 12 00:55:45 a "fuck yeah meego! one phone! later this year! it'll be great... honest... guys ... ?" announcement Feb 12 00:55:46 wmarone: you re right.. i search hope... think how start linux.... but take too much time if the end of the world is in 2012 :) joke Feb 12 00:55:51 tbh - pushing meego front and center Feb 12 00:55:52 as above Feb 12 00:55:54 had nokia resolved its path and announced housecleaning Feb 12 00:55:58 what I don't get is ... how this new strategy actually convinced shareholders (and everyone else) about a "brighter" future ... I just see it like a step back Feb 12 00:55:59 * auke checks in for a second Feb 12 00:56:10 * wmarone waves at auke Feb 12 00:56:10 android would not have made them happy either Feb 12 00:56:12 how's the crowd? rowdy and asking for Mubarak's resignation? Feb 12 00:56:16 both turn nokia into an oem Feb 12 00:56:25 araujo: well a lot of business clients want the synchronisation that windows-world supposedly offers Feb 12 00:56:30 they basically compete against a slew of other makers just trying to make cheaper and faster hw Feb 12 00:56:31 auke: I am not so tied to Nokia Feb 12 00:56:36 raster: definitely - at least with WP7 Nokia stands to be a big piece of MS' pie Feb 12 00:56:40 for the moment Feb 12 00:56:50 if/when that changes, you might see Nokia and MS' priorities shift Feb 12 00:56:51 ands the investors see that that will kill profitability Feb 12 00:56:54 it wont kill nokia Feb 12 00:57:10 but it means their profit margins will be slimmer than they could have been with alternative choices Feb 12 00:57:17 could nokia just sell prototypes without-OS to us geeks? :) Feb 12 00:57:18 pupnik, a few minority behind the curtain? ..... who?, Feb 12 00:57:26 but they're not just viewed on profit, they're also viewed on volume Feb 12 00:57:32 and market %age Feb 12 00:57:33 it is even evident with the stock market results of today Feb 12 00:57:40 actually Feb 12 00:57:41 pupnik: I'll be amazed if their unlocked retail sales survive Feb 12 00:57:46 :( Feb 12 00:57:50 companies are views on Feb 12 00:57:52 the world is not = USA Feb 12 00:57:53 PE ratios Feb 12 00:58:04 and PE ratios tend to be high if your PROFIT is high Feb 12 00:58:11 :) Feb 12 00:58:13 also expected profits Feb 12 00:58:22 stock prices are future-oriented Feb 12 00:58:25 yes Feb 12 00:58:38 the stock market prices you based on its BET on your future profitability Feb 12 00:58:44 right Feb 12 00:58:57 (generally speaking - taking out the herd instinct thing like in stock market crashes etc.) Feb 12 00:59:27 also very important Feb 12 00:59:38 apple has a herd Feb 12 00:59:40 i'd say that a 14% drop in nokia stock price says that a large # of investors have now bet that nokias future profits, as of elops change in direction, have been reduced to what they could have been given alternative decisions Feb 12 00:59:48 i would agree with them Feb 12 00:59:58 well stated Feb 12 01:00:33 i think we need to look at the LG-GD880 for the future of featurephones Feb 12 01:00:47 featurephones? Feb 12 01:00:50 raster: interesting angle :) Feb 12 01:01:21 alright folks! don't do anything stupid while I'm gone! Please read the IRC guidelines and keep things tidy in here, thanks. Feb 12 01:01:31 raster's comments are informed investor viewpoints Feb 12 01:01:34 cheers auke Feb 12 01:01:36 * auke drives home. Feb 12 01:01:43 auke: the stockmarket is all a big betting game Feb 12 01:01:46 its gambling Feb 12 01:01:48 with real money Feb 12 01:01:59 prediction != gambling Feb 12 01:02:02 gambling on the future outcome of the decisions and fortunes of organisations Feb 12 01:02:19 everything in life is gambling anyway Feb 12 01:02:46 you can "win" at gambling if you predict the right outcome more often than most other people making the same bet Feb 12 01:02:52 it is possible the market is wrong Feb 12 01:03:05 and SOME people make thng now is a good time to buy nokia stock Feb 12 01:03:10 as its cheap Feb 12 01:03:20 and that most people are wrong in the bet that things will be worse Feb 12 01:03:36 but the money peolpe actually put on the line disagrees Feb 12 01:03:37 you are convincing me to short the stock raster Feb 12 01:03:49 :) Feb 12 01:03:57 hahahaha Feb 12 01:03:58 if you're a broker, you make money either way :) Feb 12 01:04:06 berndhs: thats true Feb 12 01:04:07 :) Feb 12 01:18:39 good night #meego Feb 12 01:19:46 bonne nuit niala1 Feb 12 01:24:27 fnight Feb 12 01:24:29 gnight Feb 12 01:43:44 I have a proposal regarding N900 GPS and MeeGo, who should I talk to about it? Feb 12 02:52:57 stskeeps: ping Feb 12 02:54:00 http://i.imgur.com/dMX1f.png Feb 12 02:56:03 lol Feb 12 02:57:29 o **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 12 02:59:57 2011