**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 12 02:59:57 2011 Feb 12 03:26:55 i checked meego website there is no documentation on how to start ? Feb 12 04:29:57 you guys want to know a bit of reality? Feb 12 04:30:07 when you get old, your eyes start to fail Feb 12 04:30:15 you can no longer see Feb 12 04:30:37 so let's do what we can... Feb 12 04:30:51 to make the world more full of goodness Feb 12 04:32:01 it's a beautiful world Feb 12 04:32:04 for you Feb 12 04:32:06 for you Feb 12 04:32:10 for you Feb 12 04:32:13 it's not for me. Feb 12 04:34:39 when i get old im going to get cool robot eye implants Feb 12 04:36:12 you intel people have to understand something Feb 12 04:36:16 intel was evil Feb 12 04:36:30 they pushed the 8088 on the world Feb 12 04:36:38 and that thing was designed in israel Feb 12 04:36:49 segment:offset Feb 12 04:36:51 was sick Feb 12 04:36:56 only because they couldn't make the iAPX-432 work correctly. Feb 12 04:37:06 what Feb 12 04:37:14 before you start replying Feb 12 04:37:26 i do know what i'm talking about. ;) Feb 12 04:37:30 yes, the 8086 was a stop gap Feb 12 04:37:33 it was here for far too long Feb 12 04:37:38 but it's what stuck. Feb 12 04:37:51 well the world isn't perfect... i understand that Feb 12 04:38:03 it's full of path-dependence Feb 12 04:38:15 the segmented memory architecture was an extension that allowed 8085 code to be reasonably hand ported. Feb 12 04:38:55 ironically, had the iAPX-432 been successful, (which was highly unlikely), it would have made the world a very bizarre place. Feb 12 04:39:09 even more bizarre than the 8086 left things. ;) Feb 12 04:39:27 i was a child prodigy in 1981-2... and the intel thing made me very sad Feb 12 04:39:53 (you thought the VAX was a heavy instruction set? the 432 made the VAX instruction set look _SMALL_) Feb 12 04:40:22 i should have had more reasonable expectations Feb 12 04:40:58 full disclosure though, my favourite CPU is still the MOS 6502 Feb 12 04:41:22 that was beautiful Feb 12 04:41:27 1/2 the transistors Feb 12 04:41:56 yeah no multiply or divide, but, the instruction set was enough, and small enough to keep in my head. Feb 12 04:42:13 nice to meet you Feb 12 04:42:46 lets be happy Feb 12 04:43:04 the mobile world is at least unixy Feb 12 04:43:38 we won Feb 12 04:43:44 people use tcp/ip Feb 12 04:43:52 microsoft wanted to kill tcp/ip Feb 12 04:43:59 those fuckers lost Feb 12 04:44:14 and we will kill them again Feb 12 04:44:26 one way or another **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 12 05:01:48 2011 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 12 05:02:14 2011 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 12 05:02:53 2011 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 12 05:03:33 2011 Feb 12 05:08:17 http://pupnik.de/photos/original/Pupnik_Consulting_Deutsche_Bahn_afterwards_sm.jpg Feb 12 05:22:30 im gangsta Feb 12 05:22:34 !staff Feb 12 05:22:47 hi Feb 12 05:32:35 pupnik: how did they want to kill tcp/ip? Feb 12 05:39:16 treebeen`: they tried to ban it from windows Feb 12 05:41:02 pupnik: ah, really? heh, TIL... Feb 12 05:42:24 treebeen`: reality Feb 12 05:42:36 remember my name Feb 12 05:42:40 i lived through it Feb 12 05:43:24 pupnik: but you are right, we won, and MS will slowly die Feb 12 05:43:59 thanks Feb 12 05:44:04 let's be steadfast Feb 12 05:44:08 and kill that shit Feb 12 05:44:19 one way or another Feb 12 05:45:53 there's just no way the can compete anymore, before they were competing with OS/2 and the like, commercial products, they can't compete with free software Feb 12 05:46:33 today, smart companies take the linux kernel and build their own OS Feb 12 06:15:44 Hi, me and my friends are developing an multiprotocol IM for MeeGo. We wanted to know if the application should be completely using Qt? Qt is basically a GUI toolkit right? And also yahoo has this lib called libyahoo2 which has to be used to use its API which is in C, so how do we go about it. Feb 12 06:27:47 http://pupnik.de/photos/Summer_Skin_Beetle_sm.html Feb 12 06:28:07 arvind_khadri: Qt contains more than just gui components. And there is no problem with using c libs als long as they compile/work on your target platform. To get you started on Qt you can look at some of the material released by nokia. There's plenty :-) Feb 12 06:28:16 long live nokia :( Feb 12 06:29:09 Elop said that Nokia will not propose bringing Qt on WP. Feb 12 06:36:26 whois Aparna Feb 12 06:37:35 hello Feb 12 06:39:45 hello,i need help writing a chat client on meego. anyone? Feb 12 06:40:06 as in a multi-im client Feb 12 06:40:23 if it's qt , you can also try from #t Feb 12 06:40:29 #qt Feb 12 06:40:51 it s gotta be qt right? Feb 12 06:41:16 dD0T, thanks :) Feb 12 06:41:36 rayanon, Qt contains more than just gui components. And there is no problem with using c libs als long as they compile/work on your target platform. To get you started on Qt you can look at some of the material released by nokia. There's plenty :-) Feb 12 06:41:43 rayanon: Qt is the way to go Feb 12 06:42:35 Hmm ...thanks :) Feb 12 07:00:11 rayanon were you trying the whois irc command :)? Feb 12 07:00:30 Aparna, yep :P Feb 12 07:05:14 hi Feb 12 07:05:19 how are you all! Feb 12 07:05:32 hangover Feb 12 07:05:39 indeed Feb 12 07:05:44 How will meego go in the future? Feb 12 07:05:51 any ideas about it? Feb 12 07:05:53 and today is academic mm kyykkä Feb 12 07:06:01 michaelwang2011: intel is still backing it and meego isn't completely dead from nokia side Feb 12 07:06:26 michaelwang2011: so technically there might just be a reshuffle of resources and things will go on, contributions made Feb 12 07:06:30 yep Feb 12 07:06:45 meego is almost ready for prime time Feb 12 07:06:55 and i wan't to buy one... Feb 12 07:07:11 Stskeeps: great. Feb 12 07:07:16 Ans5i: hopefully MWC will show some devices Feb 12 07:07:24 yep Feb 12 07:08:19 will intel produce many kinds of devices running on meego in the future? Feb 12 07:08:33 michaelwang2011: i think the idea is for hardware vendors to use both intel and ARM chips Feb 12 07:08:50 Stskeeps: sure. Feb 12 07:09:13 and it'll be a cold day in hell when i personally give up on ARM in meego, so :) Feb 12 07:09:27 Stskeeps: but how is the meego status now? Could it compete Android and iphone in the future potentially? Feb 12 07:09:42 Ans5i: http://asia.cnet.com/crave/2011/02/11/fujitsu-first-to-market-with-meego-netbook/ Feb 12 07:10:00 michaelwang2011: i personally think it is able to compete in many diferrent areas Feb 12 07:10:20 Stskeeps: that will be great! Feb 12 07:10:21 kewl :) Feb 12 07:16:47 [Rui]: Is that you? Feb 12 07:23:02 However, considering that Nokia itself is shifting away from MeeGo and using Windows Phone 7 OS for its smartphones, we wonder if this model makes sense for the company. Moreover, the MeeGo LifeBook MH330 was retailing at S$488 (US$380.33) during a sneak preview at Singapore's Tangs departmental store sale yesterday. That is only S$11 (US$8.57) less than the Windows 7 Starter model. Feb 12 07:23:09 we'll be seeing that a LOT in the coming weeks Feb 12 07:28:09 Stskeeps: Another question: What is the main focuses for meego? Netbook? Feb 12 07:29:43 michaelwang2011: same as always, i think Feb 12 07:29:49 meego core as central focus, UX'es on top Feb 12 07:30:09 right Feb 12 07:31:15 with the qml switch, it should evolve a lot quicker Feb 12 07:33:37 TSCHAKeee: seeing what? windows starter is severly crippled btw Feb 12 07:34:05 Stskeeps: What is qml switch? Feb 12 07:34:25 michaelwang2011: rumours for the UX'es going qml Feb 12 07:34:29 trebeen`: i know. the point being you're going to see peope say, "Why bother with MeeGo when Nokia dropped it for the handsets?" Feb 12 07:35:03 hopefully MWC can help show that. Feb 12 07:35:46 Stskeeps: coool, but what is MWC, sorry but I am a newbie. Feb 12 07:36:03 michaelwang2011: mobile world congress Feb 12 07:36:15 oh Feb 12 07:36:17 I see Feb 12 07:37:22 yes MWC can prove to be very interesting if things still are what they are Feb 12 07:37:23 TSCHAKeee: yes, I see that. but Intel is still backing it, and we might probably see another company showing interest now that Nokia doesn't persue it fully anymore Feb 12 07:37:50 yeah. Feb 12 07:37:57 i wasn't saying that wasn't the case Feb 12 07:38:05 i'm merely pointing out the knee jerk response the media will take Feb 12 07:38:32 and when i say knee jerk, i put emphasis on jerk. Feb 12 07:38:40 :) Feb 12 07:38:45 treebeen`: the handsets thing was a big selling point on qt for me. Phones *and* multiple desktop platforms :/ Feb 12 07:41:50 doc|home: why do you think so? what are the advantages of qt when it comes to handsets? Feb 12 07:42:26 TSCHAKeee: ah well, the media, the hype WP7 but sales are a laugh Feb 12 07:42:30 *they Feb 12 07:42:31 michaelwang2011: when you've played with qml for a bit, you'll understand it well Feb 12 07:42:49 michaelwang2011: it was going to work on symbian *and* maemo, as well as windows, linux and OS X. One language for all of them. Feb 12 07:42:55 er, meego Feb 12 07:43:24 balmer said WP7 has 8000 apps, hah, wow, probably half of them are written by MS themselves Feb 12 07:43:31 what is qml? Feb 12 07:43:38 a language? Feb 12 07:44:08 michaelwang2011: "qt quick" Feb 12 07:44:12 michaelwang2011: without wanting to sound like a ... ass.. may I suggest google :) Feb 12 07:44:14 *an Feb 12 07:45:11 RTFM ;) Feb 12 07:46:58 qtquick would look good in qp7 Feb 12 07:47:10 wp7 Feb 12 07:47:39 i did not meant qt phone 7. ~ greenphone Feb 12 07:47:47 sure, but who wants to develop for wp7? screw that... :) Feb 12 07:48:16 i'm thinking of downloading sdk Feb 12 07:48:30 geilivable Feb 12 07:48:38 I did and it made me feel dirty Feb 12 07:48:42 heh Feb 12 07:48:45 hehehe Feb 12 07:49:01 I know someone who had his iPhone stolen, then went to a store to get a WP7 phone, next day he came in with android Feb 12 07:49:16 well maybe i leave to mm kyykkä first let see after that :) Feb 12 07:49:47 i don't just feel so well that i would like to start dev. Feb 12 07:52:38 I don't think adding Qt libraries on WP7 will happen Feb 12 07:52:53 Maybe separately installable, but they are not there by default Feb 12 07:53:58 they said pretty clearly that ms technologies will be used Feb 12 07:54:06 Hi, how do you guys see Qt compared to Android and iphone? will it be better potentially? Feb 12 07:55:21 michaelwang2011: Qt is not a device. anyway, I'd write Qt over obj-c/java anyday Feb 12 07:56:35 timoph: yep, that is right. But how is the Qt UI structure? I heard it is more flexible then Android. Feb 12 07:56:47 morn thiago_home Feb 12 07:56:50 it is Feb 12 07:57:14 write something with it and you'll see Feb 12 07:57:34 timoph: good to hear that. I have more confidence in meego. Feb 12 07:57:35 also, python bindings that are actually useful! Feb 12 08:04:43 Nokisoft, yay! Feb 12 08:04:51 * rmt goes off to kill something. Feb 12 08:05:33 Q: How do I send something to Steve Ballmer? Feb 12 08:05:34 Does anyone have an idea what I broke in a filesystem when -show-cursor stops working for all applications? Feb 12 08:06:04 RST38h: You want to send him congratulations card? Feb 12 08:06:07 A: If you would like to send a letter or a parcel, the address is XXXXX. For bigger payloads, the coordinates are lat/lon. Feb 12 08:08:22 i like the message from ari Feb 12 08:08:50 basically Ballmer's reign at MS was one failure until now, and it will only get worse now... heh Feb 12 08:09:00 don't let yourself get sucked into negative things Feb 12 08:09:57 morning Feb 12 08:10:17 RST38h: hahaha Feb 12 08:33:12 <[Rui]> michaelwang2011: is that me what? Feb 12 08:33:40 Are you from China? Feb 12 08:33:43 [Rui]: ? Feb 12 08:34:11 <[Rui]> michaelwang2011: nope, more or less the opposite side globally, Portugal. Feb 12 08:34:47 oh, I see. I thought you are one of my colleagues haha Feb 12 08:36:47 <[Rui]> michaelwang2011: well, I would like to learn mandarin or cantonese and visit one of those areas before I die :) Feb 12 08:36:58 <[Rui]> gotta go. bye! Feb 12 08:37:06 welcome. sseee u. Feb 12 08:40:28 <[Rui]> :) Feb 12 08:40:33 :> Feb 12 08:59:05 hey guys, what is up? Feb 12 08:59:32 If I wanna develop app for meego, do I have to know Qt? Feb 12 08:59:55 yes, qt or qt quick Feb 12 09:00:36 are Ubuntu Distributions using Qt also? Feb 12 09:00:55 a qt sdk exists too yeah Feb 12 09:01:37 Michael2011_: and for the interest, e.g. KDE is made with Qt Feb 12 09:02:29 great. Where can I download qt and its source code? Is it under git now? Feb 12 09:02:42 is it totally open software? Feb 12 09:04:17 qt.gitorious.org Feb 12 09:05:13 I'd use packages from the distribution of your choice Feb 12 09:05:37 instead of compiling it from git Feb 12 09:06:04 Michael2011_: yeah, it's free & you can choose between gpl & lgpl. Feb 12 09:08:48 sandst1: thanks a lot. Do I need to get the source code of qt if I develop apps for meego? Feb 12 09:10:56 Michael2011_: not necessarily, like timoph said, get the dist packages + devel libs. for qt quick, see http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/kate-alholas-forum-nokia-blog/2010/11/14/how-to-make-modern-mobile-applications-with-qt-quick-components Feb 12 09:15:39 Morning, all Feb 12 09:15:50 morning jaffa Feb 12 09:15:50 Anything interesting been happening...? Feb 12 09:16:09 slow morning Feb 12 09:16:14 that's good Feb 12 09:16:37 sandst1: thanks a lot.l Feb 12 09:16:59 * thiago_home doesn't need more excitement Feb 12 09:17:21 what's the plan for a Meego paid app store? Feb 12 09:17:48 thiago_home: :-/ Feb 12 09:18:06 tarantism_: Ask Intel. There are plans for AppUp, IIRC Feb 12 09:18:26 ? Feb 12 09:18:37 how to change nick here? Feb 12 09:18:46 without logging out first. Feb 12 09:18:49 Michael2011_: /nick newnickname Feb 12 09:18:49 Michael2011_: type: /nick NewNicknameHere Feb 12 09:18:49 /nick Newnick Feb 12 09:18:49 /nick fooblubb Feb 12 09:18:54 is appup going to be open? Feb 12 09:18:57 haha Feb 12 09:19:04 thanks guys. Feb 12 09:19:08 I get it:) Feb 12 09:19:16 no doubt :P Feb 12 09:19:24 :) Feb 12 09:22:35 AppUp is available for download for windows and moblin Feb 12 09:22:57 Do we know when it'll be available for meego? Feb 12 09:25:11 tarantism_: IIRC, Intel had something to say about it during MWC Feb 12 09:26:42 hope that's going to be a good announcement Feb 12 09:27:08 hello Feb 12 09:27:24 * Stskeeps hugs Texrat Feb 12 09:27:40 * Texrat hugs Ststkeeps back Feb 12 09:28:12 Stskeeps, hello Feb 12 09:28:25 Stskeeps, did you get a chance to test the latest daily Feb 12 09:28:42 there's some weird behaviour with the touchscreen responses Feb 12 09:28:46 known? Feb 12 09:30:08 I thought there would be more activity ;) Feb 12 09:30:47 anyone know what % of meego devs are nokia employees? Feb 12 09:30:56 there was yesterday, people were moaning how their pet project was ignored and how a product that's already on the market sucks Feb 12 09:31:09 well that sums it up Feb 12 09:32:54 Texrat: everyone's hungover today Feb 12 09:33:01 lol Feb 12 09:35:04 hello thiago_home Feb 12 09:35:24 hello Feb 12 09:35:30 * thiago_home had to reboot Feb 12 09:35:39 wireless driver crashed Feb 12 09:35:45 hey guys, should I try meego handset on my N900? Feb 12 09:35:57 is it in a usable state yet Feb 12 09:36:10 latest daily sort of works, but for some reason it decided that there's no wifi available Feb 12 09:36:15 so it's not usable Feb 12 09:36:29 oh :/ Feb 12 09:37:04 TomaszD: UI believes that Feb 12 09:37:12 it does actually work deep down, which is interesting Feb 12 09:37:30 I'm also wondering why are the strings still not in English, but engineering strings Feb 12 09:38:27 TomaszD: ah, that's normal, string freeze happens at some point Feb 12 09:42:52 Texrat: so, i don't know about you but i still see a lot of potential in MeeGo, if anything as the last bastion of real open mobile systems :P Feb 12 09:43:01 morning Feb 12 09:43:17 I see potential, sure, but still feel in limbo for now Feb 12 09:43:30 Texrat: as with everyone, but development still goes on Feb 12 09:43:37 I was putting a LOT of work into conference presentations, projects, etc Feb 12 09:43:42 Do I still? Feb 12 09:43:58 it'd be a loss for the project if you didn't Feb 12 09:44:24 What will happen to the TSG ? Perhaps it is good time to think about making a more community-driven leading group, don't you think ? As a way to pass over this difficult time Feb 12 09:44:25 do I still go to Texas Linuxfest? Will there be a May MeeGo conference? Feb 12 09:44:33 you know... the "only" thing MeeGo has lost with Nokia pulling out is manpower (and perhaps some important delivery focussed management ;) ) Feb 12 09:44:33 Texrat: conference still goes on, AFAIK Feb 12 09:44:38 ok Feb 12 09:44:53 bzhb, I have some thing maybe related Feb 12 09:45:06 Ah I see. Feb 12 09:45:13 did you see my comment on twitter or blog about MeeGo brand refresh? Feb 12 09:45:19 Nokia makes a big WP7 announcement Feb 12 09:45:23 bzhb: i don't really expect it to change, since Nokia isn't cutting all MeeGo away Feb 12 09:45:36 Intel told me before Elop announcement Feb 12 09:45:37 and we get graced by the presence of Texrat and TomaszD Feb 12 09:45:38 :p Feb 12 09:45:44 Stskeeps: not yet Feb 12 09:45:47 graced? feh Feb 12 09:45:53 punished Feb 12 09:45:57 anyway Feb 12 09:46:00 :p Feb 12 09:46:21 Texrat: I was thinking the same thing myself mate ;) Feb 12 09:46:29 Intel says MeeGo indetity undergoing change, will be more community-focused Feb 12 09:46:38 identity* Feb 12 09:46:54 I submitted policy bugs a while back... Feb 12 09:46:56 Texrat: I personally think meego needs to establish a bit of an internal divide Feb 12 09:47:08 Didn't they say Moblin would be community-focused as well... and that didn't work out? Feb 12 09:47:09 and the subjects are all being reconsidered Feb 12 09:47:15 how so lbt? Feb 12 09:47:22 Texrat: more community focused would be nice to see. so far the community focus is plain BS when it comes to hardware Feb 12 09:47:24 eh Feb 12 09:47:30 maemo community is still here :) Feb 12 09:47:31 It isn't supposed to be just another linux distro Feb 12 09:47:34 I wasn't around for Moblin, just Maemo ;) Feb 12 09:47:34 Does anyone have an idea what I broke in a filesystem when -show-cursor stops working for all applications? Feb 12 09:47:40 it's *supposed* to be a core to build devices on Feb 12 09:47:44 right Feb 12 09:47:57 we should have a core *and* a community distro built around it Feb 12 09:47:57 Texrat: I was actually thinking that MeeGo could be more of an open project after this Feb 12 09:48:07 good morning Feb 12 09:48:11 bunk: repopulate /dev Feb 12 09:48:11 timoph: yeah, no big pressure on product launches Feb 12 09:48:19 yep Feb 12 09:48:22 lbt++ Feb 12 09:48:29 but we still need to service the needs of device vendors Feb 12 09:48:31 timoph yes, that's what Intel hints at for sure Feb 12 09:48:38 so focus on the bare minimum there Feb 12 09:48:49 I asked about a formal announcement, it should come soon Feb 12 09:48:50 and allow a community distro to build around it Feb 12 09:48:54 so, what was the big announcement yesterday? I've missed it. (was offline all day) Feb 12 09:49:02 rzr: Can there anything go wrong that survives a reboot? Feb 12 09:49:04 Venemo_N900: death to the infidels, basically Feb 12 09:49:06 with *much* easier access to the distro Feb 12 09:49:15 Stskeeps: what? Feb 12 09:49:20 Venemo_N900: engadget.cm Feb 12 09:49:21 :P Feb 12 09:49:25 lol Feb 12 09:49:30 .com Feb 12 09:49:36 Venemo_N900: seriously, go read it, and have a cup of coffee first Feb 12 09:49:41 ok Feb 12 09:49:43 engadget.cm redirects to engadget.com Feb 12 09:49:45 bunk: i cant tell Feb 12 09:49:46 or a beer Feb 12 09:49:51 Stskeeps, Engadget were quicker than you! :p Feb 12 09:50:06 (at correction) Feb 12 09:50:11 I just hope I can hang with you guys again :D Feb 12 09:50:19 I'd suggest to make it a strongly c2h5oh infused coffee Feb 12 09:50:20 man we've had some fun, eh? Feb 12 09:50:26 Venemo_N900: http://identi.ca/tag/elopcalypse Feb 12 09:50:37 Texrat: just stay around :) Feb 12 09:50:42 and see where things go Feb 12 09:50:46 Texrat, are you trying to get rid of us? Feb 12 09:50:49 for now Feb 12 09:50:53 We're not going anywhere :p Feb 12 09:50:57 damn Feb 12 09:51:04 lbt: IMO we should start putting up a wiki page for proposals for the changes we'd like too see in the project Feb 12 09:51:07 Texrat: i personally don't know if i'm out of a job, but i've grown to like meego because it's fun Feb 12 09:51:16 timoph: just starting Feb 12 09:51:23 cool Feb 12 09:51:32 oh Stskeeps I saw kudos on your last presentation, good job Feb 12 09:51:57 I am hoping to share the marketing stuff I've been working on Feb 12 09:52:11 Texrat: it wasn't my best and i didn't go deep enough, but that's a failure from me to not understand my audience too well Feb 12 09:52:43 trust me, I made the same mistake at Akademy 2010 Feb 12 09:52:45 +target Feb 12 09:52:58 like, thinking FOSDEM was just a small 1000 person conference ;) Feb 12 09:52:58 now's intels chance to hoard nokias share of smartphones ;) Feb 12 09:52:59 oversold my subject Feb 12 09:53:24 Texrat: which presentation at akademy 2010 ? :P Feb 12 09:53:44 the user engagement thing Feb 12 09:53:46 djszapi on customer feedback ecosystem Feb 12 09:53:55 what timoph said Feb 12 09:54:02 I had too much marketing shit in it Feb 12 09:54:06 :) Feb 12 09:54:06 ah well Feb 12 09:54:17 aimed too broadly Feb 12 09:54:28 had fun with you and leinir on followup though timoph Feb 12 09:54:38 so, nokia decided to be just another wp7 manufacturer Feb 12 09:54:41 how sad Feb 12 09:54:45 too bad we didn't have an audience! Feb 12 09:54:48 what'll happen to Qt? Feb 12 09:54:54 Texrat: with leinir ? :P That is awesome Feb 12 09:55:14 leinir is a great guy Feb 12 09:55:24 love hanging with him Feb 12 09:55:36 :) Feb 12 09:55:37 almost as much fun as timoph Feb 12 09:55:41 Venemo_N900: read forum.nokia.com -> letter for developers (only official word on it that I could find) Feb 12 09:56:40 * timoph is too lazy to fetch the url :) Feb 12 09:57:06 Texrat: but regarding MeeGo, timoph phrased it pretty well before: yep. no way in hell that we're giving up Feb 12 09:57:25 Texrat: worked too hard for this to go nowhere :) Feb 12 09:57:34 yep Feb 12 09:57:38 that's essentially how I was feeling Feb 12 09:57:51 and since meego is a open project, well, we can Feb 12 09:57:52 shit, I have been SLAVING the past two months Feb 12 09:57:58 good to hear Feb 12 09:58:20 wanted to present stuff that would rock at conferences Feb 12 09:58:39 still hope to Feb 12 09:58:52 the best thing that could happen is if nokia was to sold qt division to intel. But that is just wishfull thinking at this point. Feb 12 09:59:02 +1 Feb 12 09:59:09 so who is going to Linux Foundation collab summit? Feb 12 09:59:19 +1 Feb 12 09:59:25 bzhb: qt still has a lot of work to do Feb 12 09:59:28 we still support meego Feb 12 09:59:49 i think the path towards qt and wayland is definately one of importance Feb 12 09:59:53 he did not say you do not thiago_hme Feb 12 09:59:56 * thiago_home Feb 12 10:00:15 we've got Qt working on wayland already Feb 12 10:00:24 our guys and intel's guys collaborating Feb 12 10:00:32 prety kool to hear :) Feb 12 10:00:35 cool Feb 12 10:00:36 * pretty Feb 12 10:00:39 http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/02/what-now-for-meego.html Feb 12 10:00:39 and speaking of collaboration, I do want to go to the LCS -- if my travel is approved Feb 12 10:01:02 I may be starting a new job, so not sure if I can :( Feb 12 10:01:13 interview Monday!!! :) Feb 12 10:01:17 Texrat: good luck :) Feb 12 10:01:25 :) Feb 12 10:01:29 :) Feb 12 10:01:33 timoph: ^^ so that was one of the things Feb 12 10:01:36 and still waiting on freaking Nokia Siemens networks... Feb 12 10:01:44 Texrat: ftw Feb 12 10:01:51 they are supposed to interview me for 2 positions, but keep delaying Feb 12 10:02:11 lbt: at least easier access to platform development Feb 12 10:02:36 interview Monday is with American Airlines. Senior Operations Analyst Feb 12 10:02:38 timoph: I think that will come Feb 12 10:02:51 working with Rolls Royce jet engine repair Feb 12 10:03:05 community visible UI/UX design Feb 12 10:03:09 Texrat: yeah, RR jet engines aren't too popular atm are they? :P Feb 12 10:03:12 heck I wanted to propose this at the next TSG in 2 weeks.... it's barely formed in my mind. The focus was on Apps initially Feb 12 10:03:21 lol Feb 12 10:03:28 timoph: yes... the UX isn't part of core is it? Feb 12 10:03:33 no Feb 12 10:03:36 so lets establish chinese walls Feb 12 10:03:37 lbt: +1 for writing a post that doesn't take 20 mins to read Feb 12 10:03:38 ;) Feb 12 10:03:45 and chinese fire drills! Feb 12 10:03:49 Stskeeps: deadlines keep it tight ;) Feb 12 10:04:05 was that a slap, Ststkeeps? Feb 12 10:04:11 I was aiming for 30 :P Feb 12 10:04:14 Texrat: it was! Feb 12 10:04:22 a very +ve one ;) Feb 12 10:04:28 thiago_home: I suppose qt on wayland is too young for the nokia meego device. I'm wrong ? Feb 12 10:04:28 wtf does +ve mean anyway.. Feb 12 10:04:29 :P Feb 12 10:04:29 feh Feb 12 10:04:33 positive Feb 12 10:04:40 see your nearest battery terminal Feb 12 10:04:40 ok Feb 12 10:04:49 bzhb: yes, too young Feb 12 10:05:09 but it is the future Feb 12 10:05:24 excuse me if I sound rude but Feb 12 10:05:29 is there a project plan? Feb 12 10:05:38 tarantism_: the requirements system is still up and running Feb 12 10:05:39 hang on Feb 12 10:06:30 tarantism_: http://meego.com/developers/meego-roadmap and http://meego.com/about/roadmaps Feb 12 10:06:41 thanks. I'll take a look. Feb 12 10:06:59 thiago_home: do you have a blog about the Qt project after this announcement ? I guess lots of people are interested in this question, what trolls think. Feb 12 10:07:41 lbt: better roadmaps and such things. basically the project's direction should be easier to figure out. Feb 12 10:08:12 djszapi: I'm pretty sure they're not allowed to comment on those things (at least not yet) Feb 12 10:08:25 djszapi: we'll let you know when we know more Feb 12 10:08:31 timoph: obviosuly, I meant public opinions. Feb 12 10:08:32 djszapi: until then, please be patient Feb 12 10:08:43 okay, np. Feb 12 10:09:53 lbt: yes that post looks like a good direction IMO Feb 12 10:11:52 dm8tbr: timoph: I think the strategy for MeeGo has to be *NOT* a distro... otherwise why use it over a more established solution? Feb 12 10:11:54 Stskeeps: btw, packaged joe last night in build.pub Feb 12 10:12:13 I also feel that the coalition with another distro is now more important Feb 12 10:12:27 lbt: good point Feb 12 10:12:28 and using opensuse as an upstream may make more sense Feb 12 10:13:06 looks like I need to read my mails.. Feb 12 10:17:31 One thing I find a little strange is Nokia saying MeeGo was taking too long... but a WP7 Nokia phone won't be released until 2012... wtf? :p Feb 12 10:18:16 Termana: I think they mean that according to their purposes. Feb 12 10:18:17 nope, the transition takes next couple of years. wp7 phones are released earlier Feb 12 10:21:18 Termana: follow the money, not the logic ;) Feb 12 10:21:51 lbt: hehe :P Feb 12 10:21:58 yep. You find reasons for a lot of things just by following the money trail Feb 12 10:32:14 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/exclusive-nokias-windows-phone-7-concept-revealed/ - looking at the concepts the consumers are already drooling over it. sad but true, technology doesn't matter (that much). Feb 12 10:32:28 s/concepts/comments/ Feb 12 10:33:29 Stskeeps: How do you check whether you have enough resource to meet the scheduled release dates? Feb 12 10:33:51 dm8tbr: wp7 is definitely not meego and this isn't a nokia channel. Please take it elsewhere. Feb 12 10:35:13 thiago_home: cool it. I just tried to give some context. Feb 12 10:36:36 not going to comment on the rumours, but on engadget: since I *know* that they're wrong very often, you should take their news with a grain of salt Feb 12 10:52:13 achipa: o/ Feb 12 10:52:37 timoph: o/ mornin' Feb 12 11:56:17 quiet.... Feb 12 11:57:02 trinity: people are hungover, you should have seen last night Feb 12 11:57:46 hahah... really Feb 12 11:57:46 hi to all from n900 Feb 12 11:58:00 wait until they get today's news... Feb 12 11:58:13 Today's news? Feb 12 11:58:14 Stskeeps... have you heard the news? Feb 12 11:58:23 yeah... Nokia dropped Meego ... Feb 12 11:58:33 trinity: that was yesterday's news, and they didn't drop it fully Feb 12 11:58:35 trinity: If you mean *yesterday's* news, yes - people are aware of it Feb 12 11:58:45 nokia drpped Meego ? Feb 12 11:58:58 read engadget.com Feb 12 11:58:58 :P Feb 12 11:59:01 but anyway Feb 12 11:59:02 :) Feb 12 11:59:04 didn't drop what fully? =) Feb 12 11:59:06 this is meego.com - we're still alive Feb 12 11:59:11 RST38h: another good question Feb 12 11:59:49 I think meego netbook has great potential ... Feb 12 11:59:52 they have decided to fault Feb 12 12:01:01 if I am understood right, Nokia is planned to zip one MeeGo device later this year? Feb 12 12:01:57 Yes, that's what they said Feb 12 12:02:11 questi sono pazzi Feb 12 12:02:17 Whether it will be a phone, tablet or other is unknown Feb 12 12:02:59 trinity: Given no-one seems to be actively working on MeeGo Netbook, I think your "great potential" may go unrealised. Feb 12 12:03:10 i have not bought a deside hd for waiting nokia N9 Feb 12 12:04:10 NeOGeO: Buy an N900. Feb 12 12:04:44 i'm using now n900 Feb 12 12:04:46 i have an N900... great device with few exceptions including poor battery life Feb 12 12:05:06 * Chani wonders if the n9 could be their one meego device Feb 12 12:05:25 cool .. i'm not sure Nokia will deliver on that one Meego device Feb 12 12:05:27 I don't see poor battery life. Feb 12 12:05:41 (then again, with the rumours I'm hearing, I'm not so sure it'll be only one) Feb 12 12:06:13 Chani: the device that will be relased has not been given any official name Feb 12 12:06:20 Chani: what rumours? Feb 12 12:06:20 hehe :) Feb 12 12:06:23 i guess there will no one. what will nokia with one meego phone the market; who will buy such single solution?! Feb 12 12:06:28 right, There Is No N9 Feb 12 12:06:44 I had an E71 prior to the N900; I would normally recharge the E71 after 3 or 4 days... 1 or 2 days with the N900 Feb 12 12:06:47 * thiago_home raises his hand Feb 12 12:06:50 roadi: I'll buy it :-) Feb 12 12:06:56 roadi: other companies will be releasing Meego devices no doubt. Feb 12 12:07:04 I suspect there will be a n9 Feb 12 12:07:20 SpeedEvil: again, no name has been assigned to the device Feb 12 12:07:20 It's been announced that meego devices scheduled are having windows put on them Feb 12 12:07:29 the other companies maybe - but where is meggo today?! Feb 12 12:07:31 SpeedEvil: no such thing has been announced Feb 12 12:07:43 maintaining the software for the one phone could be extraneous ... among other things Feb 12 12:07:46 normaly 10 hours of life with my use Feb 12 12:07:46 SpeedEvil: depends how you use it, from what I've heard. and maybe the devices differ; when my friend put a sim card in his and wandered around town with that and the wifi on, it was dead within hours. by *my* n900 can go the whole day, unless I'm using it heavily Feb 12 12:07:49 it isn't still there where it should be (for selling devices). pity. Feb 12 12:07:49 thiago: yes it was - yesterday - press conference on meego.com/news Feb 12 12:08:07 SpeedEvil: designs Feb 12 12:08:15 SpeedEvil: which isn't unusual to switch Feb 12 12:08:37 Stskeeps: Indeed - by devices I meant designs for devices which were scheduled to have meego on them. Feb 12 12:08:43 SpeedEvil: Mine's generally fine, but if I'm away from a wifi hotspot and do a bit of browsing on 2.5G (say yesterday), it'll be dying by about 7pm (when I'm trying to get home) Feb 12 12:09:04 roadi: companies are free to put whatever they want on top of meego core. Don't think people will ship Meego Handset as-is Feb 12 12:09:17 SpeedEvil: But I don't have a problem when I'm connected to wifi most of the day and Bluetooth headphone for an hour each morning and on way home. Feb 12 12:09:18 Jaffa: Yes - data transfer over wireless - especcially 3G is unfortunately heavy. Feb 12 12:09:20 actually, if I'm not using my n900 much it can go 2-3 days without charging Feb 12 12:09:33 SpeedEvil: The problem is, I want to be always on, but also trust the device. Feb 12 12:09:43 Jaffa: I agree. Feb 12 12:09:46 Ne0Ge0: looks like you have all readio on all the time.. Feb 12 12:09:49 SpeedEvil: I suppose I want a widget or status menu thing for quickly turning off auto-connect to GPRS Feb 12 12:10:31 Better policy framework. Feb 12 12:10:40 What can/can't brig up the radio Feb 12 12:10:50 it's not a perfect device, but I like the freedom it permits... Feb 12 12:10:59 There are already suitable infrastructures. Feb 12 12:11:01 man quota Feb 12 12:11:39 it could probably be the last open-source device from Nokia... although I would hope I'm wrong... Feb 12 12:12:45 I just love Meego Netbook ... it needs a lot of refinement, but it has such a mondern UI, and finger tip friendly goo :) Feb 12 12:13:18 I vs We. Feb 12 12:13:24 Stskeeps, what was the tool you used to mount .raw files again? partx? Feb 12 12:14:14 trinity, it may not be the last one if we make it shine :) Feb 12 12:14:18 MohammadAG: kpartx Feb 12 12:14:32 ta Feb 12 12:15:30 velope: And buy 8 each. Feb 12 12:19:51 Jaffa, could you read this short bit of text and see if this makes sense: http://liqbase.net/Liqbase.I_Vs_We.txt Feb 12 12:22:36 Jaffa, I have you marked specifically for your bright buttons, see: Feb 12 12:22:36 http://liqbase.net/Liqbase.I_Vs_We.txt Feb 12 12:22:57 kot c low levelness, Linux tutoring, x86 consideration Feb 12 12:22:57 seb tag cloud Feb 12 12:22:57 zack textbox mon Feb 12 12:22:57 w00t c++guard Feb 12 12:22:57 qwerty install and hildon Feb 12 12:22:58 stskeeps late night chats Feb 12 12:22:59 johnx ditto Feb 12 12:23:01 daniels xvideo mode which liqbase uses Feb 12 12:23:03 simon gst cam,detection talks Feb 12 12:23:07 jaffa bright buttons prototype Feb 12 12:23:10 spyro mic Feb 12 12:23:11 kath sheep,confidence Feb 12 12:23:13 lbt git Feb 12 12:23:15 tammy supercoder Feb 12 12:23:17 rm_you sleep technician Feb 12 12:23:19 jott advice, rotated thinking Feb 12 12:23:21 stop flooding Feb 12 12:23:21 kees debian package advice Feb 12 12:23:22 :P Feb 12 12:23:23 jeremiah debian package advice Feb 12 12:23:25 qole cheerleader Feb 12 12:23:28 x-fade builder Feb 12 12:23:29 wazd art critique! Feb 12 12:23:32 adele UX advice Feb 12 12:23:33 vlad live bg support for liqflow! Feb 12 12:23:34 .oO( i am waiting for the kick ) Feb 12 12:23:37 ciroip clock Feb 12 12:23:40 alban alban art Feb 12 12:23:41 ryan web layout Feb 12 12:23:43 timsamoff chats and meegon Feb 12 12:23:45 jussi driving to hospital Feb 12 12:23:47 * timoph stabs lcuk Feb 12 12:23:47 quim devices and conf Feb 12 12:23:50 danielw all sorts of help Feb 12 12:23:51 frals mms, walking through a non trivial app with me :) Feb 12 12:23:54 vdvsx chats Feb 12 12:23:55 vgrade doc formatting Feb 12 12:23:56 * lbt kicks lcuk Feb 12 12:23:57 alterego qml/widget considerations Feb 12 12:23:59 dawn devices and conf Feb 12 12:24:15 :) Feb 12 12:24:16 kdkf Feb 12 12:24:19 thx Feb 12 12:24:21 hehe Feb 12 12:24:26 haha Feb 12 12:25:07 :$ apologies Feb 12 12:25:10 lcuk: o/ Feb 12 12:25:17 *g* Feb 12 12:25:18 hahah Feb 12 12:25:33 was that your psych profile on meego members lcuk :P Feb 12 12:26:09 alterego, that is the list of people who I can remember talking to who helped in some way with liqbase Feb 12 12:26:15 * lbt makes an addition to his whoswho.org file Feb 12 12:26:29 the book and Smile thing is what I want to do, but the rest is because of you guys Feb 12 12:26:30 lcuk: err.... I want a "license" credit then! Feb 12 12:26:34 :) Feb 12 12:26:39 mr closed source Feb 12 12:26:47 lbt, put it on the wiki and flesh it out Feb 12 12:26:56 then I will use it in the next release Feb 12 12:26:57 :) Feb 12 12:27:08 i am not very good at presenting anything Feb 12 12:27:10 do you recall the debates on GPL ? Feb 12 12:27:14 yes Feb 12 12:27:18 long and drawn out Feb 12 12:27:22 lbt: would it be possible to generate a list of packages that are already in pub obs? some html generating script in a cronjob, etc.. Feb 12 12:27:25 aren't they all Feb 12 12:27:40 timoph: yep... we have REVS Feb 12 12:27:54 which I'm thinking of deploying there Feb 12 12:27:56 lbt, but my memory is poor and I regress into my shell too often to notice Feb 12 12:28:15 writing this does remind me of one thing Feb 12 12:28:28 lcuk: I meant license discussions.... not "me" .... (in case Stskeeps starts poking fun at me again!) Feb 12 12:28:29 our talks in BCN Feb 12 12:28:30 :) Feb 12 12:29:33 but timoph, what's the point? Feb 12 12:29:43 priming the ITP ? Feb 12 12:29:50 yep Feb 12 12:30:02 automating it Feb 12 12:30:45 so what would this list contain exactly? Feb 12 12:30:51 is the 8 February image broken? Feb 12 12:30:53 a list of packages that are open source? Feb 12 12:31:13 no. packages that are in build.pub.meego.com Feb 12 12:31:14 and what's the scope? home: projects or Team? Feb 12 12:31:18 jonwil, it contains a list of people who along the way have been begged, pushed, offered advice towards creating liqbase Feb 12 12:31:25 home is a bit 'private' Feb 12 12:31:27 or... not, just shows a lot of errors at boot time Feb 12 12:31:36 whats liqbase? Feb 12 12:31:36 hmmh. true Feb 12 12:31:53 liqbase is a bottle of smiles Feb 12 12:32:12 the best intentions of the entire of the community Feb 12 12:33:06 I think I need a lesson on how the community obs is supposed to be used Feb 12 12:33:21 my code is not very good and you have to squint a bit, but everyone who has ever seen me knows I just want the fastest shiniest slickest experience around Feb 12 12:33:32 and it runs really well and always does new different things Feb 12 12:33:55 like if I think some package is ready to leave home, where do I send the sr Feb 12 12:34:01 timoph: it's a reflection of the organisation of the community Feb 12 12:34:10 which is... not well defined Feb 12 12:34:18 but should mirror core to some degree Feb 12 12:34:30 it also isn't a single thing Feb 12 12:34:48 each Team: area supports a different project which may have their own rules Feb 12 12:35:52 lbt, the documents I posted, who could write them up properly? Feb 12 12:35:54 yes. I see that there's only the "team" area there but no actual team projects Feb 12 12:36:30 timoph: no one has asked for one with enough "thought" to justify being granted one Feb 12 12:36:44 lcuk: which docs? Feb 12 12:36:48 in my case where I'm packaging random stuff every now and then the team project would't IMO make sense Feb 12 12:36:54 correct Feb 12 12:37:13 timoph: did you read http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/01/meego-community-development-apps.html Feb 12 12:37:19 no Feb 12 12:37:28 * timoph reads it Feb 12 12:37:42 lbt, those notes I just wrote; http://liqbase.net/Liqbase.I_Vs_We.txt and http://liqbase.net/liqbase.info.txt Feb 12 12:38:01 * jonwil is still getting nowhere with any of his reverse engineering efforts :( Feb 12 12:39:50 jonwil: what are you trying to reverse engineer? Feb 12 12:40:01 A bunch of different things Feb 12 12:40:28 Stuff required to get Cell Broadcast working on my N900 for one. Feb 12 12:40:34 Also GPS on N900 for maemo purposes Feb 12 12:41:15 I mean meego purposes Feb 12 12:44:58 I still cant seem to get my head around listening to dbus signals :( Feb 12 12:54:07 There is no reason MeeGo cant get GPS on the N900 using a gpsd backend Feb 12 12:54:37 Its all a matter of Nokia being willing to release the details of the GPS related isi/phonet calls as they apply to the N900 cellmodem Feb 12 12:54:58 They have already released cell modem API docs (including some stuff related to GPS) at www.wirelessmodemapi.com Feb 12 12:55:05 but the GPS bits there dont match the N900 Feb 12 12:55:59 * jonwil just needs to find someone who has an "in" at nokia to try and push for the release of the stuff he needs for his projects :) Feb 12 12:57:57 jonwil: you should be talking to #meego-arm people. The N900 is the reference device and they are/were supported by Nokia Feb 12 13:00:35 lbt, its so anti-tech its in my handwriting: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110211_134505.liqbase-playground.scr.png Feb 12 13:00:48 luke walked into the bed when he noticed it Feb 12 13:01:48 I just dl'ed liqbook too Feb 12 13:02:13 you should change the background color ;) Feb 12 13:02:41 aholler, no - I should release the package that uses the most awesome image select dialog in the world Feb 12 13:02:49 to let you choose your ownbackground Feb 12 13:11:45 I have a question!!! Feb 12 13:11:55 ask instead of asking to ask Feb 12 13:12:09 Stskeeps, I believe that was more a statement. Feb 12 13:12:14 I 'd like to start and learn qt for meego Feb 12 13:12:19 lbt: good guestion on the post "what is the point of MeeGo?" I haven't actually given it that much though before. I agree with you that the core is the point. By having the core as the point makes MeeGo distro the surroundings. Feb 12 13:12:58 Is it worth it really or am I gonna waste my time???? Feb 12 13:13:17 pcman17: Qt development is fun. Feb 12 13:13:24 pcman17, you learn Qt, whether it is running on Maemo or Meego or Windows or Mac or Ubuntu or wherever does not matter. Feb 12 13:13:25 pcman17: depends what you want to acvhieve Feb 12 13:13:40 * timoph likes Qt Feb 12 13:14:22 Yes but a friend of mine is WP7 developer and tries to convince me on starting developing for windows Feb 12 13:14:50 like I said. it really depends on what you want to achieve Feb 12 13:14:55 pcman17: the true strength of a real programmer is one that can adapt Feb 12 13:15:03 ... I'm just opening IRC and see that sentence :( Feb 12 13:15:04 When i first learned about meego I was excited but now things have taken another way Feb 12 13:16:03 Ok thanks for the answer!!!!!!!!! I 'll think about it Feb 12 13:28:17 lcuk: Cool Feb 12 13:28:36 Jaffa, :) Feb 12 13:29:07 does meego accept Qt daemons? Feb 12 13:29:27 are they dbus activated? Feb 12 13:29:43 they listen to dbus Feb 12 13:30:07 Finland has dramatic newspapers now :) Feb 12 13:30:09 http://emailman.1g.fi/kuvat/mobile/120220112182.jpg Feb 12 13:30:09 since I'm (slowly) cloning Nokia Bubbles, maybe it could go upstream? :P Feb 12 13:30:11 MohammadAG: i think you need to describe the architecture and purpose a bit more than just asking it accepts [random] daemon Feb 12 13:30:34 "Lopun alku" == "Beginning of The End" Feb 12 13:32:54 frals, I'd assume saying cloning Nokia Bubbles that everyone would understand that it manages screen locks :P Feb 12 13:33:23 MohammadAG, lol Feb 12 13:33:25 anyway, the question was, can daemons be in Qt? Feb 12 13:33:33 * lcuk remembers tweeting about bubbles Feb 12 13:34:12 I just hope Nokia doesn't sue me for cloning a concept and releasing it as open source :P Feb 12 13:34:28 well I made you bubbles py thing months ago Feb 12 13:34:33 and released that Feb 12 13:34:42 well before we ever saw it emerge Feb 12 13:34:48 and its yours to use Feb 12 13:35:03 * lcuk wrote it with your keylights in mind Feb 12 13:36:25 Mohammad: daemons can even be in bash Feb 12 13:36:33 lcuk, if you didn't see it, this is Nokia bubbles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSRuY_9ZMsY Feb 12 13:36:42 I did see it Feb 12 13:37:00 reminds me of physics view from original liqbase Feb 12 13:46:39 lbt, did you read the part about Smiles? it has a path to allowing even simple community work to be rewarded Feb 12 13:50:58 so, is microsoft a ban word here, already? ;) Feb 12 13:51:30 no riot, they have some of the best engineers on the planet! Feb 12 13:51:39 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13226560/pics/nt/nt351s-1.jpg << yeah, right :P Feb 12 13:52:35 hi .o/ Feb 12 13:52:37 riot: Microsoft have talented engineers. The Kinect is amazing (although I don't have an Xbox 360). But talking about Microsoft's strengths and weaknesses is kinda off-topic for #meego Feb 12 13:53:13 riot: The question is how does MeeGo evolve and adapt to one of the few (only?) consumer electronics manufacturers who'd made MeeGo part of their core strategy pulling out. Feb 12 13:53:15 Jaffa: i thought the engineering part is what nokia was supposed to do? Feb 12 13:53:40 Intel can remain committed to MeeGo, but they don't develop stuff for consumers. Feb 12 13:53:51 i'll have a kinect system here next week.. for trying out :> Feb 12 13:54:08 i'll probably not like it *g* Feb 12 13:54:11 s/trying/working/ Feb 12 13:54:30 na, i work out on my bike *g* Feb 12 13:54:35 Jaffa, how about we make MeeGo so damned impressive that all the manufacturers will enable it Feb 12 13:55:12 if we can bottle the same enthusiasm and best hope that exists inside liqbase and make real apps with it then we are winning. Feb 12 13:55:37 the collective smiles I have seen around the world can brighten even the coldest, darkest nights. Feb 12 13:55:58 lcuk: how about making it run on more-or-less-arbitrary tablets Feb 12 13:55:58 I might go out on my bike later Feb 12 13:56:18 I might go shovel snow later Feb 12 13:56:54 lcuk: Who's doing the work, though? Visions are great, but putting out something that polished requires more work than community volunteers (unless you're willing to wait for the heatdeath of the universe) Feb 12 13:57:12 Jaffa, just like I have been doing with liqbase Feb 12 13:57:24 it takes motivation and dedication and commitment Feb 12 13:57:38 just like I have spoken with you and most others and I have tried my best Feb 12 13:57:52 if everybody tries their best, we will all win. Feb 12 13:58:11 ello haataja Feb 12 13:58:24 lcuk: You are one man motivational poster :) Feb 12 13:58:37 hello Stskeeps Feb 12 13:58:50 * timoph likes lcuk's thinking Feb 12 13:58:53 +1 Feb 12 13:58:56 RST38h, liqbase in my own words: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110211_134505.liqbase-playground.scr.png Feb 12 13:59:01 completely handwritten Feb 12 13:59:05 from the ground up :P Feb 12 13:59:15 Yes, I have seen liqbase Feb 12 13:59:25 RST38h, the clock is live Feb 12 13:59:25 newbie question, is there instructions anywhere how I could have MeeGO and Ubuntu side by side in netbook? Feb 12 13:59:31 and a real working one Feb 12 13:59:34 but its in my handwriting Feb 12 13:59:38 lcuk: The world doesn't work on optimism. Even something with the vision of Ubuntu needs bankrolling Feb 12 13:59:39 just like the original sketch Feb 12 13:59:44 haataja: you'd probably need to look on forum.meego.com for 'grub' Feb 12 13:59:51 Jaffa, read liqbook. Feb 12 13:59:58 lcuk: that's cool, I like seeing hand draw mock ups :) Feb 12 14:00:03 ok, thanks Feb 12 14:00:11 CosmoHill, but that is not a mockup. Feb 12 14:00:18 lcuk: What do you mean? Feb 12 14:00:19 its live and runs on n900 and meego Feb 12 14:00:27 and it goes at 60fps Feb 12 14:00:36 and its smoother than an iphone Feb 12 14:00:44 lcuk: is that in build.pub? Feb 12 14:00:44 and its different and distinctive Feb 12 14:00:54 timoph, no, I am not very good Feb 12 14:01:03 liqbook is on the itp Feb 12 14:01:25 but the other stuff I know nothing about, thats where lots of very very good people have spoken with me and tried to help Feb 12 14:01:42 lcuk: Mentioning package names repeatedly doesn't enlighten me ;-) Feb 12 14:02:05 Jaffa, READ it. Feb 12 14:02:09 its a short book Feb 12 14:02:14 explaining what I can do Feb 12 14:02:27 and how if I had the money would do somethng about it Feb 12 14:02:49 its written in my handwriting and signed off by me Feb 12 14:03:08 its the main part of liqbase that I want to achieve Feb 12 14:03:20 the rest comes because of the talks and discussions with everyone else Feb 12 14:05:52 I just added a new chapter to liqbook containing http://liqbase.net/liqbase.info.txt Feb 12 14:07:49 timoph, :) I showed my mum liqcalendar and she played tictactoe with Jacob. :) I have waited literally years to use a computer without tearing my hair out. Feb 12 14:08:00 :) Feb 12 14:08:06 we even needed the torch! the ideapad lights up the whole room Feb 12 14:08:25 no LEDs on the ideapad, but liqtorch let us see when the lights went out. Feb 12 14:08:33 the sources for it are in garage? Feb 12 14:08:51 maemo.org and github.com/lcuk Feb 12 14:08:56 ack Feb 12 14:09:05 I think I'll play with it a bit Feb 12 14:09:27 its very messy, I am not a good programmer Feb 12 14:09:37 but it has best intentions all over it. Feb 12 14:10:19 lcuk: WHERE can I read it? Feb 12 14:10:30 Jaffa, extras-devel on maemo Feb 12 14:10:33 for what I tend to do with some stuff is that I'm fairly bad at starting it but I am very very good at taking someone else's work and improving it Feb 12 14:10:34 I just uploaded 0.3 of it Feb 12 14:10:37 liqbook Feb 12 14:11:05 Right. I'll wait till later since a) enabling extras-devel's a fiddle and b) got jobs to do ;-) Feb 12 14:11:22 lcuk: liqbook on github seems empty Feb 12 14:11:54 lcuk: Thanks for the pointer, tho Feb 12 14:11:57 * CosmoHill is amazing by the awesome 404 page Feb 12 14:12:00 CosmoHill, git had a problem, latest source as uploaded 10 minutes ago is on maemo.org autobuilder Feb 12 14:12:40 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/liqbook_0.3.0/ Feb 12 14:12:51 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/liqbook_0.3.0/ Feb 12 14:12:58 thansks Feb 12 14:13:45 * lcuk still struggles with many little things in liqbase Feb 12 14:14:15 and the hardest part has been trying to break it up into digestable chunks Feb 12 14:14:33 I am going offline for a bit, cyas later \o Feb 12 14:14:38 bye bye Feb 12 14:18:52 oh, I pushed liqtutor to extras-devel for maemo, it is branched from liqcalendar, but allows you to make handwritten fonts Feb 12 14:19:25 its what I used to get Tracys handwriting in. mine was done by taking sketches drawn manually and pieced together Feb 12 14:19:31 hers was done using editor :) Feb 12 14:28:36 what happens to MeeGo now that Nokia partners up with Microsoft? Feb 12 14:28:54 wait and see. Feb 12 14:29:42 jo-erlend: we are continuing Feb 12 14:29:45 MeeGo continues as is. Feb 12 14:29:55 MeeGo's a LF project and Intel is still going on - including inside Nokia Feb 12 14:30:21 I'm just wondering who will develop the cutting edge hardware for meego to run on? Feb 12 14:30:22 Stskeeps: That depends on what is meant by LF Feb 12 14:30:29 but will Nokia sell mobile phones and MIDs for it? Feb 12 14:30:42 Nokia had some good stuff going on like hdmi and usb otg etc. Feb 12 14:31:05 Stskeeps: Based on my limited experience with US business speak, he means "Start looking for jobs, we are closing your project, but slowly" Feb 12 14:31:28 So, no, the "learning" part is not good at all. Feb 12 14:31:42 RST38h: not denying that, but let's see what happens in practice Feb 12 14:32:02 Yes, things may turn up in a variety of ways Feb 12 14:32:43 I think it will depend how MeeGo proceeds. Feb 12 14:32:56 No, it will depend on how WP7 proceeds :) Feb 12 14:33:08 Elop is barely acknowledging Meego existance. Feb 12 14:33:12 That too, but less that. Feb 12 14:33:44 BUT if WP7 tanks (and there are all reasons for that to happen), things may start looking a bit different for investors, if not for Elop himself Feb 12 14:33:45 Richrd_, I am just waiting for meego to run on iphone hardware. Feb 12 14:34:16 (only because I want to see whether liqbase really is faster than iOS on same HW ;)) Feb 12 14:34:38 Yes, lets not forget that meego is much more for others than Nokia also. Feb 12 14:34:40 If they manage to achieve some success with WP7 though, something they can showoff toinvestors, Meego is condemned. Feb 12 14:35:00 We are talking about it in Nokia context at the moment Feb 12 14:35:20 If you want to talkabout others, the only "others" I know is Aava Feb 12 14:35:32 hopefully MWC will show some more Feb 12 14:35:36 Which is noteven claiming to produce a consumer handset Feb 12 14:35:47 Microsoft may flop again in mobile business as it has done many times. http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-previous-strategic-mobile-partners/ Feb 12 14:36:26 I've seen some other manufacturer devices, that integrated meego. Done by Neusoft. Feb 12 14:37:09 Those were not phones/handhelds though. Feb 12 14:37:32 nice Feb 12 14:37:41 the phone functionality is important though Feb 12 14:38:43 Microsoft clearly wants Nokia to be an OEM. Nokia can be that too, but I think for own future something 'original' is needed. Like the meego. Feb 12 14:38:44 why is phone functionality important? because the phone market is the biggest ? Feb 12 14:43:52 Do you want to have a 'handset' and a phone? Feb 12 14:44:13 tablet and phone.. Feb 12 14:53:05 mikhas: Hey! Long time, no see. :) Feb 12 14:53:33 hi rishi! how are you? still in HKI? Feb 12 14:53:38 mikhas: Yes. Feb 12 14:53:50 left a week ago Feb 12 14:53:56 mikhas: Writing my thesis now. Almost done with my MSc. Feb 12 14:54:05 mikhas: You were in Helsinki? Feb 12 14:54:22 yup Feb 12 14:54:44 mikhas: Let me know if you come again. (Not likely, I guess :-)) Feb 12 14:54:50 harhar Feb 12 14:54:51 =p Feb 12 14:55:15 mikhas: How is Daniel? I gather he is busy with his studies. Feb 12 14:55:39 haven't met him yet, he seems to be ok though Feb 12 14:56:22 err, what's /usr/lib/madde/linux-x86_64/targets/meego-core-armv7l-1.1/bin/qdbusxml2cpp: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libQtDBus.so.4: undefined symbol: _ZN14QObjectPrivate15checkWindowRoleEv ? Feb 12 14:57:37 MohammadAG: a bug?\ Feb 12 14:57:50 MohammadAG: it means you're mixing your build with that of your system Feb 12 14:57:55 your system's libQtCore is interfering Feb 12 15:01:20 I see Feb 12 15:01:48 why is the sdk missing qdbusxml2cpp, it should be in the meego-sdk-libqt4-dev package but isn't Feb 12 15:23:09 fiferboy: ping Feb 12 15:24:36 lardman, you are mentioned http://liqbase.net/liqbase.info.txt Feb 12 15:25:17 cheers lcuk Feb 12 15:27:23 I used mic-chroot to get into the armel sysroot, then tried to use rpm to install the package, package augeas-libs-0.7.2-2.7.armv7l is intended for a armv7l architecture Feb 12 15:27:42 but it's an arm chroot Feb 12 15:30:36 * CosmoHill wonders how to make text files wrap in firefox Feb 12 15:31:40 CosmoHill, they wrap nicely in liqbook :P lol Feb 12 15:33:11 rm_you sleep technician ? Feb 12 15:34:48 CosmoHill, he fell asleep stood up in mcdonalds whilst we were chatting in berlin Feb 12 15:37:57 ..... Feb 12 15:38:17 is he a cow? Feb 12 15:39:42 CosmoHill, lol, no he was propped up along the wall Feb 12 15:39:47 and we were pretty much hammered Feb 12 15:39:58 jott and I could not stop laughing Feb 12 15:40:16 oh oh, I was imaging you two chatting in the middle of a queue Feb 12 15:41:03 CosmoHill, in Germany where we were - the Mcdonalds do not have seats. Feb 12 15:41:10 standing around high tables. Feb 12 15:41:19 wow Feb 12 15:41:53 that's one way to stop people shouting "get off your fat ass" at customers Feb 12 15:51:37 timoph, if you need any help, just ask, many people know about it - if you need specifics, #liqbase has folks who might know even more. Feb 12 15:51:44 * lcuk goes to daisy nook to feed the ducks Feb 12 15:56:40 lcuk: I've heard you talk about liqbase but never realised you were the creater Feb 12 15:58:25 CosmoHill, I have been creating it for years Feb 12 16:00:35 yes but I've only known you for one Feb 12 16:03:40 'meegotouchcp-bluetooth-libmeegobluetooth-devel' not found in package names. even though http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/handset/repos/armv7l/packages/ is in /etc/zypp/repos.d/ :/ Feb 12 16:29:37 May i say something? This community is acting like a bunch of grade schoolers who lost their toys. GET OVER IT ! Feb 12 16:30:12 GET OVER IT !!!! Feb 12 16:30:58 Many of the community have invested much unpaid time on this project. It's not hard to understand that they may feel somewhat perturbed. Feb 12 16:31:07 SpeedEvil: don't feed the troll Feb 12 16:31:29 I'm sure it must be him. Why do you think it's a troll? Feb 12 16:31:38 more importantly, don't prove him right Feb 12 16:31:43 so stop bashing Elop because he didnt kiss the feet of the open source community Feb 12 16:32:18 SpeedEvil: for one thing, because the IP is not from Finland. Feb 12 16:32:24 you people exaggerate the importance and the relevance of meego Feb 12 16:32:49 It's from Canada Feb 12 16:32:53 MohammadAG: yes Feb 12 16:33:02 MohammadAG: I just looked that up to Feb 12 16:33:15 and though Elop is from Canada, he was in London on Friday and he now lives in the Helsinki area Feb 12 16:33:20 also why would the real Elop refer to himself in the third person? Feb 12 16:33:20 the whining and the complaining is ridiculous .... cheer up people Feb 12 16:33:26 and you can bet he's going to Barcelona on Monday Feb 12 16:33:33 Anyway, wouldn't a Nokian have the nat/nokia hostmask? Feb 12 16:33:52 MohammadAG: they wouldn't use the freenode web interface either Feb 12 16:34:05 better now? Feb 12 16:34:06 ah, MeeGoBoy Feb 12 16:34:22 CosmoHill: hello mate Feb 12 16:34:35 bye bye Feb 12 16:34:58 I heared Nokia had an agreement with Microsoft Feb 12 16:35:03 is that true? Feb 12 16:35:10 to work on WM7? Feb 12 16:35:27 daniel___: engadget.com has all the information you need - it's a bit irrelevant for here :) Feb 12 16:35:28 daniel___: have a look at the #meego chat longs, MS / nokia press release, and shorten your tail Feb 12 16:35:31 meego.com continues Feb 12 16:35:49 tnx Feb 12 16:36:33 hmmh. infobot would be useful in answering this repeating thing Feb 12 16:36:41 hey folks this channel is dead all hail the new #MSeego Feb 12 16:36:55 MindWarper: lol Feb 12 16:36:58 MindWarper: evidence speaks to the contrary. The channel is very much alive. Feb 12 16:36:59 MindWarper: please, leave, this is a place for work, not trolling. Feb 12 16:37:14 MindWarper: in fact we have had the biggest amount of people in here in ages :P Feb 12 16:37:30 peaked yesterday at about 600 Feb 12 16:38:59 Stskeeps, probably because people are desperate for real information. :) Feb 12 16:39:11 sorry just been reading osnews site Feb 12 16:39:17 Not because they're all ready to jump on the wagon. Feb 12 16:39:39 MindWarper: and that gives you reason to go and troll in a channel where people do actual work? sorry, does not compute Feb 12 16:39:57 GAN900: probably, but this was about the channel P Feb 12 16:40:30 Stskeeps: i think he was just making a joke, not trolling Feb 12 16:40:36 * Stskeeps sighs a bit Feb 12 16:40:50 I never said it was a good joke Feb 12 16:41:25 * MindWarper likes some black humor jokes Feb 12 16:41:34 racist Feb 12 16:41:43 ? Feb 12 16:41:46 :p Feb 12 16:41:47 sometimes the line between joke and troll is thin Feb 12 16:52:49 At least I have been in a good situation as I have been payed for this and hopefully it continues. Feb 12 17:03:53 Meegosoft Feb 12 17:04:25 treebeen`: we're not nokia, thank god Feb 12 17:04:50 Stskeeps: just jokin Feb 12 17:07:10 Stskeeps: well, Nokia screwed it, I hope they go down together with WP7, and Meego will survive them, heh Feb 12 17:07:25 treebeen`: i hope the best for meego myself. its' a quite nice system Feb 12 17:10:12 i hope the best for Qt, it is really nice to work with Feb 12 17:10:32 I'm using meego sdk's "mad" command to build my qt app. But can I install the missing gstreamer dependencies somehow there? Feb 12 17:26:36 berndhs: we're not dying Feb 12 17:26:41 not now anyway Feb 12 17:27:05 I hope Qt lives a long time, its so useful for many things Feb 12 17:27:42 we're busy planning the plan B for world domination Feb 12 17:27:51 don't write us off just yet Feb 12 17:28:01 yeah that's it :) Feb 12 17:28:06 what is plan B? Feb 12 17:28:10 I thought Plan B was to kill everyone Feb 12 17:29:33 damn, our plan discovered! Let's start Plan C. Feb 12 17:30:50 morning' Feb 12 17:32:21 since nobody is going to ship meego smartphone for now, maybe you should focus on porting meego on android devices. Any chance to get from qualcomm the sources needed to have working 3d hw acceleration on meego? Feb 12 17:32:49 see http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/MSMQSD#libEGL_and_libGLESv2 Feb 12 17:33:05 meego on android.... that is stupid... why not meego on windows ? :) Feb 12 17:33:12 no, on the device Feb 12 17:33:27 meego on android devices, niala1 Feb 12 17:33:43 ahhhh ok sorry i m stupid :) Feb 12 17:33:59 polteus: and you don't know if no one is going to ship Feb 12 17:34:07 in fact, you know that nokia will ship Feb 12 17:34:10 polteus: smoku has gotten meego running on the archos tablets Feb 12 17:34:39 pupnik, and dell streak ;P Feb 12 17:34:47 I had the feeling there were some manufacturers hiding in Asia working on meego devices Feb 12 17:36:25 if we give them something to put on their devices, they'll ship Feb 12 17:37:19 i think meego is a opportunity for little vendor. the problems is now xhat about qt. Qt is an important part of meego Feb 12 17:39:08 do I have to repeat? Qt is not disappearing. Feb 12 17:39:27 qt existed before nokia and will continue to exist after it Feb 12 17:39:34 qt is just fine. if you have to worry about something then worry about meego devices Feb 12 17:39:35 and we still have some cards left up our sleeves Feb 12 17:39:36 berndhs: i m often here, and i rarely see asian people here Feb 12 17:40:05 most of the bugs are assigned to people with chinese names Feb 12 17:40:31 niala1: There are indeed several folks in asia working on MeeGo stuff. Feb 12 17:40:34 berndhs: yes more on bugzilla Feb 12 17:40:55 here is more a bar than a dev area Feb 12 17:41:01 :) Feb 12 17:41:13 niala1, --> #meego-bar does actually exist Feb 12 17:41:21 I was thinking that some no-name manufacturers in Asia probably have something shippable this year, if soemone wants to market it Feb 12 17:41:26 niala1: E.g. http://www.gearjunkies.com/news_info.php?news_id=5924 Feb 12 17:42:23 niala1: One nice thing about MeeGo for small vendors is that they can work on their products incognito, and only announce when they're ready to announce. Feb 12 17:42:53 gabrbedd, and this is specific to meego? Feb 12 17:43:35 thiago: Qt is not disappearing, but it is nolonger a framework for anything mass-marketed Feb 12 17:43:39 smoku: well, no... :-) Feb 12 17:43:58 ;-) Feb 12 17:44:00 smoku: but they don't even have to declare to the LF. Feb 12 17:44:03 thiago: Which, as I understand it, is the main reason of mass butthurt Feb 12 17:44:19 http://eu.techcrunch.com/2011/02/12/intel-kept-in-the-dark-over-nokia%E2%80%99s-meego-plans-operators-reject-first-device/ Feb 12 17:44:45 We've also learned that Nokia's first MeeGo device, originally scheduled to be announced late last year, has been sent back to the drawing board by operators. Feb 12 17:45:03 The problem, says our source, is in relation to the "flimsy' hardware keyboard mechanism, which fell short of operator standards. Feb 12 17:45:28 rumours abound still Feb 12 17:45:34 yes Feb 12 17:45:35 today I do paintball, guess who I thought was:) Feb 12 17:45:37 strange one Feb 12 17:45:54 Instead, a second (and possibly last) MeeGo smartphone on the roadmap - the N9-01 - sans physical keyboard will be pushed out first, as earlier reported by Engadget. Feb 12 17:45:56 Interestingly, well-placed sources also tell us that the device won't feature the stock MeeGo UI but instead one designed by "a three person external team rather than any of Nokia's hundreds of internal designers." It could be announced as early as next week at Mobile World Congress. Feb 12 17:46:02 would be more interesting Feb 12 17:46:22 Hm Feb 12 17:46:23 you shouldn't trust everything you read Feb 12 17:46:24 thank you, we are perfectly capable reading the article - based on rumours and sources who shall remain anonymous - ourselves Feb 12 17:46:25 question: providing what I read is true and that a Nokia MeeGo device is coming out - do we consider that one updatable? ie as MeeGo is developed, the device can be updated? Feb 12 17:46:28 Probably bullshit Feb 12 17:46:32 thiago_home: I'm not trusting Feb 12 17:46:40 just reporting rumours about meego Feb 12 17:46:54 ho-hum Feb 12 17:47:19 don't you have anything better to do? like baking a cheesecake or playing Minecraft? Feb 12 17:47:27 I vote for cheesecake myself Feb 12 17:47:35 Guys, how many phones did Apple develop last year? ONE. Feb 12 17:47:44 Myrtti, I have some cream in fridge, should I bring it over? Feb 12 17:47:45 Myrtti: right now, no Feb 12 17:47:46 Chill out about Nokia only making ONE MeeGo phone. Feb 12 17:49:04 If it rocks, it'll rock. Feb 12 17:49:05 chouchoune: sounds like you need to be corrupted with the joys of cheesecake and/or minecraft then Feb 12 17:50:25 Oh, and thiago_home already rocks. :-) Feb 12 17:50:27 gabrbedd, except it's now a dead-end unsupported platform from Nokia's view. Feb 12 17:50:43 We're back to the 770 days Feb 12 17:50:50 But sans excitement about the future. Feb 12 17:50:52 GAN: You do not even know that Feb 12 17:50:54 Pretty bleak. Feb 12 17:51:15 GAN900 is our official pessimist Feb 12 17:51:18 ♥ Feb 12 17:51:25 * GAN900 waves. Feb 12 17:51:32 we love you anyway Feb 12 17:51:41 my sister especially loves you Feb 12 17:52:03 Is that where it ended up, eh? ;) Feb 12 17:52:06 GAN900: So, if it's a successful phone... do you really think they'll can it? Feb 12 17:52:06 yup Feb 12 17:52:14 Myrtti: I'll think about this, but would prefer to be corrupted by a pint of guinness Feb 12 17:52:27 Meanwhile, when do you think the first WP7 phone will ship? Feb 12 17:52:31 * GAN900 still has 6 hours to go until Guinness. Feb 12 17:52:31 gabrbedd: N8 was successful Feb 12 17:52:37 chouchoune: sorry, I don't drink myself so I can't corrupt anyone else with it Feb 12 17:52:42 well, is Feb 12 17:53:03 gabrbedd, it'd have to be awfully successful. Feb 12 17:53:13 GAN900: indeed. Feb 12 17:53:44 jonnor: Well, I never heard my friends chatting about playing angry birds on their N8. :-) Feb 12 17:54:15 wife does that all the time Feb 12 17:54:22 gabrbedd: I have Feb 12 17:54:42 Sorry for the "stupid" question. How is the licence of qt, is forkable or not? Feb 12 17:54:51 I've never heard anyone chatting about chatting angry birds at all by the way Feb 12 17:54:57 not only with N8 Feb 12 17:54:58 hirabayashitaro: it's lgpl Feb 12 17:55:02 me neither Feb 12 17:55:08 hirabayashitaro: why do you want to fork it? Feb 12 17:55:21 I'm not seeing any reason for that Feb 12 17:55:31 hirabayashia: Yes, it's forkable... but it's too early to need to. Feb 12 17:55:49 http://twitpic.com/3z1s28 - any idea what may be causing this? Feb 12 17:56:07 I don't. because seems to be like an hot topic out there. Feb 12 17:56:11 if someone's gonna fork it, it's microsoft Feb 12 17:56:14 ;) Feb 12 17:56:19 hirabayashitaro: one of the good things nokia did before elop was open sourcing qt. so yes, you can fork it :P Feb 12 17:56:43 polteus: nokia didn't do that Feb 12 17:56:47 smoku: I've seen that happen when the cable between the video card and the LCD goes bad. Feb 12 17:56:47 @smoku: Loose connection of some sort i'd say Feb 12 17:56:49 Qt was open source long before Nokia Feb 12 17:56:54 well, so what's all this fear of Nokia about qt? Feb 12 17:57:09 Qt was always open source, in fact Feb 12 17:57:15 it was also proprietary long before it was open source :D Feb 12 17:57:16 smoku: or loose, like MeeGoExpert said. :-) Feb 12 17:57:20 no it wasn't Feb 12 17:57:32 MeeGoBot, loose connection on Xephyr? :> Feb 12 17:57:34 smoku: Sorry, I've no idea what 'loose connection on Xephyr? :>' might be. Feb 12 17:57:48 and how Nokia can influence the development of qt? Feb 12 17:57:54 s/MeeGoBot/MeeGoExperts/ Feb 12 17:58:06 hirabayashitaro: you've never forked a big software project have you Feb 12 17:58:08 hena: wasn't always (L)GPL, but that's a different story Feb 12 17:58:23 (those not being the only open source licenses) Feb 12 17:58:23 jonnor: sure I have not. And I don't want to Feb 12 17:58:31 hirabayashitaro: by paying 90%-95% of the people who work on it Feb 12 17:58:33 smoku: I don't use Xephyr, so I don't know. Feb 12 17:59:36 hirabayashitaro: good. Cause its not just a matter of taking the code and say I'm the new upstream now. (and its usually not a very good idea either, best used as a last resort) Feb 12 18:00:08 we don't want a fork Feb 12 18:00:18 we want to work with everyone to make sure a fork isn't *necessary* Feb 12 18:00:27 it's not that we're stopping you. If you want to fork, you can. Feb 12 18:00:33 we want to make sure that you don't have to. Feb 12 18:00:40 I'm not proposing to fork qt, I'm just asking about the current situation. To have a more clear idea of what we are talking about Feb 12 18:01:05 and in which way the situation has changed Feb 12 18:01:18 we're still trying to figure that out Feb 12 18:01:22 please be patient with us Feb 12 18:01:28 http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2011/02/12/nokia-new-strategic-direction-what-is-the-future-for-qt/ Feb 12 18:01:51 * thiago_home will post a blog as soon as he knows enough to blog about Feb 12 18:02:31 thiago_home: I know. But to consider the future of Qt I think we must consider it with at least 2 faces Feb 12 18:02:42 which two faces? Feb 12 18:02:49 thiago_home, if I wanted to put in new feature to Qt, where would I start? Feb 12 18:03:21 * thiago_home assumes that "two faces" is a Japanese way of saying "from two points of view" Feb 12 18:03:31 thiago_home: one is qt as something that nokia have. the other is qt as anopensource thing, something that everyone have Feb 12 18:03:36 lcuk: today? clone it, write the feature, create a merge request Feb 12 18:03:46 thiago_home, I do not have skills Feb 12 18:03:51 lcuk: soon, we'll have a different system and mailing lists, just like a regular open source project Feb 12 18:03:55 I can barely write my own code Feb 12 18:04:07 lcuk: you can always pay someone to do it for you Feb 12 18:04:14 lcuk: we also have a bugtracker that tracks feature requests Feb 12 18:04:15 they cant close it; if they close it developers will run away Feb 12 18:04:18 thiago_home, I have a kickass idea and feature that I want in Qt Feb 12 18:04:23 thiago_home: you really suggest people to do all the work before making sure you'd actually want it /accept it? Feb 12 18:04:25 http://liqbase.net/liq.20110208_002.liqbook.on.meego.ideapad.jpg Feb 12 18:04:28 hirabayashitaro: we want those two to be one and the same Feb 12 18:04:52 * gw280 waves Feb 12 18:04:54 jonnor: no, I don't Feb 12 18:05:05 jonnor: which is why we're opening up more and we'll have mailing lists Feb 12 18:05:15 thiago_home: very good :) Feb 12 18:05:16 jonnor: so you can talk to developers and bounce ideas off before spending time writing code Feb 12 18:05:22 good afternoon MeeGoists :) Feb 12 18:05:46 thiago_home: but today there is no policy of using say the public bugtracker for this coordination? Feb 12 18:05:57 jonnor: the bugtracker is the best place, today Feb 12 18:06:02 Venemo_N900, \o Feb 12 18:06:15 hey lcuk :) Feb 12 18:06:21 I just wish people would have time and patience to wait for the real information to come through - very seldom do CEO's tell anything worthwhile that will actually be good enough to make long term plans over. Even the other Steve leaves the technical details for better inclined people to tell... Feb 12 18:06:23 jonnor: the big problem is that the current merge request system is inefficient and full of cracks through which things are lost Feb 12 18:06:32 jonnor: we're working to fix all of that Feb 12 18:06:40 jonnor: *I* am dedicating 100% of my time to this Feb 12 18:06:45 Myrtti: Real state of things may take a few months to reveal itself Feb 12 18:06:57 Myrtti: No reasonable human will wait this long Feb 12 18:07:06 hi Feb 12 18:07:08 thiago_home: I'll study something about licensing and come back. At this stage I'm not able understand the situation. Anyway thank you Feb 12 18:07:10 thiago_home: will this happen through improvements to gitorious? Feb 12 18:07:11 RST38h: *MAY* Feb 12 18:07:21 jonnor: we don't know Feb 12 18:07:34 jonnor: let me find a link for you Feb 12 18:07:40 hirabayashitaro: I'd be surprised if anyone really understood the situation Feb 12 18:07:40 Myrtti: MAY with very high probability Feb 12 18:07:57 * RST38h is looking at everything he can find about SLP in the meanwhile Feb 12 18:08:11 jonnor: http://www.mail-archive.com/opengov@qt-labs.org/msg00255.html Feb 12 18:08:23 jonnor: the two leading contenders are Gerrit (same as Android) and Crucible Feb 12 18:08:29 jonnor: those are the features we want Feb 12 18:10:34 ffs, why isn't my phone on nokia.co.uk Feb 12 18:11:38 gw280: is your employer now more willing to use meego? :-) Feb 12 18:12:08 thiago_home: thanks Feb 12 18:12:41 jonnor: by the way, join us in finding out more about the tools and what we'd like Feb 12 18:16:57 thiago_home: haha, you know I can't comment on such things :P Feb 12 18:17:05 thiago_home: but QNX is a nice OS :) Feb 12 18:17:32 gw280: I know you can't, but I'd like to tease you anyway :-) Feb 12 18:17:33 thiago_home: just dropped by to see what all the commotion was about Feb 12 18:18:04 thiago_home: helio's applied for a position with us I think Feb 12 18:18:19 go tease him :D Feb 12 18:18:30 helio applied for a position with us too Feb 12 18:18:52 * gw280 gasps Feb 12 18:19:08 heliocastro: mercenary! Feb 12 18:19:18 but you guys aren't doing open source or qt, so I can't recommend you to any of my friends. Feb 12 18:19:38 hah, burned Feb 12 18:19:42 hehe Feb 12 18:19:58 indeed, many companies fail to see that we want our work to be visible Feb 12 18:20:27 more intense motivation than money Feb 12 18:20:27 thiago_home: we're doing a little bit, but yeah, it's kind of annoying Feb 12 18:20:59 thiago_home: it's actually got a lot better since we joined... pmax is slowly changing the company around Feb 12 18:21:04 gw280: that's great Feb 12 18:21:12 haven't talked to him in ages though Feb 12 18:21:20 he's been insanely busy Feb 12 18:21:20 every now and then I see his name pop up in skype Feb 12 18:21:29 thiago_home: I think he sends like 100 emails an hour for work Feb 12 18:21:42 gw280: what company is this? Feb 12 18:22:28 RIM Feb 12 18:22:33 ah Feb 12 18:23:16 gw280: well, at least that's what blackberries excel at :-) Feb 12 18:23:20 rofl Feb 12 18:23:24 heh Feb 12 18:23:27 he's addicted to them Feb 12 18:24:18 he must have a couple of torches Feb 12 18:24:32 before RIM, he already had at least 5 cell phones in every meeting we went to Feb 12 18:24:37 thiago_home: if by a couple you mean 10 then yeah Feb 12 18:24:48 thiago_home: he carries around a laptop bag full of phones these days Feb 12 18:24:58 thiago_home: I think he's normally got 20+ phones and 2+ tablets on him Feb 12 18:25:01 wouldn't a laptop be more useful? Feb 12 18:25:23 he carries that around too Feb 12 18:25:29 CosmoHill: he probably gets a laptop for the bag alone :-P Feb 12 18:25:50 he sounds' like a mugger's goldmine Feb 12 18:26:19 thiago_home: I wonder what airport security think when he's going through Feb 12 18:26:23 he flies /a lot/ Feb 12 18:26:26 lol Feb 12 18:26:31 like every few days Feb 12 18:26:40 he already flew a lot back in 2006/7 Feb 12 18:26:49 yeah, he's cut down since then Feb 12 18:27:17 * thiago_home only spent 90 days out of the country last year Feb 12 18:27:26 lol Feb 12 18:27:28 * CosmoHill has never been out of the country Feb 12 18:27:41 59 on business, the rest was vacation Feb 12 18:27:42 flying is so annoying Feb 12 18:27:44 thiago_home: so, is Nokia going to dump Qt and then the Free Qt Foundation will kick in? :P Feb 12 18:27:48 2 clause BSD! Feb 12 18:28:00 * RST38h has forgotten which country is "in" and which is "out" Feb 12 18:28:06 gw280, in a way, that'd be great. No legalese scan for code contributions. Feb 12 18:28:23 only one repo etc Feb 12 18:29:05 but but but that goes against the gitorious model of one repo for every user Feb 12 18:29:18 one central repo doesn't prevent you from having one Feb 12 18:29:22 and this silly "no it's not really a copyright assignment" could go, too Feb 12 18:29:23 * thiago_home has three Feb 12 18:29:39 oh well, just dreams Feb 12 18:29:46 gw280: he's not referring to the multiple public repos Feb 12 18:30:28 jonnor: yes, I know, I was joking. Feb 12 18:30:32 thiago_home: are we talking about phones or repos now? Feb 12 18:30:37 Qt Feb 12 18:30:49 I'm against Gitorious' crazy sandboxing model Feb 12 18:30:57 CosmoHill: repos Feb 12 18:31:01 I think they'd do a lot better by have branch sandboxes in git Feb 12 18:31:04 i mean, that's what git is good at Feb 12 18:31:06 gw280, replace Nokia by Microsoft in that Qt scenario, and it is very likely Feb 12 18:31:29 gw280, most people only have those gitorious repos because of merge requests Feb 12 18:31:34 there is no other way ... Feb 12 18:31:56 right, my point is that gitorious is badly designed for that sort of thing Feb 12 18:31:59 it's a huge resource hog for no reason Feb 12 18:32:02 gw280: gitorious used git. Its just that at some point you want your work to be public, and then a public git repo makes sense Feb 12 18:32:06 (kinda silly that merge requests are part of the cloned repo. I once deleted some repos, guess what happened to all my merge requests ...) Feb 12 18:32:08 hence the point in getting a new system Feb 12 18:32:16 see the requirements in the link I posted to jonnor half an hour ago Feb 12 18:32:20 actually git typically uses hardlinks internally for git clones Feb 12 18:35:41 * CosmoHill looks at RIM jobs and see's "LFS" mentioned :) Feb 12 18:41:26 hello all. im trying to change the xterm launch command. ive found meego-xterm.desktop and i changed the "Exec" line from "Exec=xterm" to "Exec=xterm -fg CadetBlue3 -bg grey20" but the colors dont change next time I run xterm... any ideas? Feb 12 18:42:04 How do you run xterm? Feb 12 18:42:28 Stskeeps: you're still op'd Feb 12 18:42:51 well, im new to meego. i run it by clicking the xterm link under Home -> Tools -> xterm Terminal Feb 12 18:43:10 i did some googling and it "appears" as though the .desktop files in usr/share/applications controls these things Feb 12 18:43:27 That is the standard method of controlling such, yes. Feb 12 18:44:14 from within xterm ive run "xterm -fg CadetBlue3 -bg grey20" and a new instance is created with the modified color shceme Feb 12 18:45:02 wait a second Feb 12 18:45:13 i just changed the Exec line to "Exec=navit" and it still runs xterm Feb 12 18:45:20 is there a command i need to run to refresh things? Feb 12 18:45:33 it appears as though the side bar might read the .desktop files once on startup Feb 12 18:45:40 and not every time an app is run? Feb 12 18:45:48 that is likely yes Feb 12 18:47:30 go it Feb 12 18:47:36 had to then "pkill startivi" Feb 12 18:47:45 thanks for letting me bounce my problems off you hehe Feb 12 18:51:15 hi all Feb 12 18:51:27 how are things looking in meego world this saturday night? Feb 12 18:51:57 sivang: people are upset about nokia's decision from yesterday Feb 12 18:52:28 Venemo_N900: ah, so it was real. I thought it wasa bad bad nightmare Feb 12 18:52:46 sivang: unfortunately Feb 12 18:52:48 Venemo_N900: I actually woke up today and thought "wow I should stop the drugs" Feb 12 18:53:05 lol sivang :D Feb 12 18:54:53 Venemo_N900: or the antibiotics, since the side effects said helucinations could be one of them Feb 12 18:55:01 Venemo_N900: I wish I was kidding Feb 12 18:55:04 sivang: yeah Feb 12 18:55:06 hey MohammadAG Feb 12 18:55:15 sivang: well i wasn't online yesterday at all Feb 12 18:55:34 Venemo_N900: you were lucky Feb 12 18:55:46 sivang: reading this news was a very bad start for today though Feb 12 18:56:14 yes, I am contemplating all weekend what to do now Feb 12 18:56:24 I had so much plans and eneregy for the developers offering Feb 12 18:56:53 what now Feb 12 18:56:56 but now, as it seems discussion of at least some of the people on the paid sude of the ecosystem say meego should be a core platform Feb 12 18:57:30 sivang: maybe collect independent developers, and approach another manufacturer Feb 12 18:57:48 brause: yes, I was thinking of writing Mark Shutteworth Feb 12 18:58:04 linaro... Feb 12 18:58:16 sivang: I totally agree Feb 12 18:58:18 he's not going to make hardware Feb 12 18:58:22 http://parislemon.com/post/3237400800/introducing-the-microsoft-puppet Feb 12 18:58:50 sivang: who's Mark Shutteworth? Feb 12 18:59:02 hey sivang Feb 12 18:59:06 Venemo_N900: and old friend of mine Feb 12 18:59:22 Venemo_N900: (not kidding) Feb 12 19:00:04 sivang: I believe, but I haven't heard about him Feb 12 19:00:27 nice elop-devil Feb 12 19:00:36 when you write Mark, be careful to spell his name correctly :) Feb 12 19:00:42 elop-devil: very sad Feb 12 19:01:03 Venemo_N900: In case you're serious... Shuttleworth is the head of Canonical (Ubuntu) Feb 12 19:01:12 gabrbedd: thanks Feb 12 19:01:23 hmm I hought Shuttleowrth was some astronaut Feb 12 19:01:24 gabrbedd: yes, I was serious Feb 12 19:01:59 lpotter: he went on a vacation in space, same guy Feb 12 19:02:04 sivang: and what would you write to him? Feb 12 19:02:53 yes: very sad, hope it only was an april fool's day joke but it's true Feb 12 19:03:04 Microsoft Buys Nokia for $0 Feb 12 19:03:06 http://www.appleoutsider.com/2011/02/11/nokia Feb 12 19:03:38 elop-devil: maybe nokia but not us Feb 12 19:03:45 * CosmoHill pokes Stskeeps Feb 12 19:04:36 Venemo_N900: to buy qt dev frameworks, get HP or dell or better, LG and make sure qt lives for mobile development or so. Feb 12 19:05:22 Venemo_N900: I can't see where qt fits in in the new order, and I am not sure a M$ strategy will let meego back into nokia even if it becomes that next best thing since sliced bread Feb 12 19:06:00 and since symbian is scheduled for purge to window phone, and qt targetted for meego and symbian... Feb 12 19:06:06 Venemo_N900: you get the picture? Feb 12 19:06:28 don't Qt run on Windows too ;) Feb 12 19:06:28 qt is more than a framework for mobile devices like the n900 or meego os. Feb 12 19:06:39 qt will go on :) Feb 12 19:06:47 Chani: thats it Feb 12 19:06:53 roadi: it must have a commercial backing entity as nokia done so far Feb 12 19:07:17 unfortunately, I took some courses in open economy and marketing during uni Feb 12 19:07:36 so during the night, it hit me that under a M$ strategy qt will not get the same r&d budget as before Feb 12 19:07:47 well, it is stated in reorg graphs Feb 12 19:07:54 google Feb 12 19:07:56 see for yourself Feb 12 19:07:57 qt was getting a bit much r&d anyways Feb 12 19:08:27 oh crap, I was supposed to be leaving Feb 12 19:08:37 you mean not a bit much... Feb 12 19:09:20 lpotter: nokia did not invest money in qt at all? Feb 12 19:09:54 nokia was pushing qt to grow extremely fast. Feb 12 19:10:17 and now it's killing it extremely fast :) Feb 12 19:10:23 well, considering the size of Qt development... Feb 12 19:10:33 Jartza: actually they're not killing it Feb 12 19:10:34 also, many contributors would not be interested to contribute anymore or use it to develop apps for it because it will be identified with Microsoft Feb 12 19:10:57 I'm not sure wtf they *are* doing, but .. well anyways they *can't* kill it Feb 12 19:11:07 Qt has always run on windows Feb 12 19:11:07 sivang: I agree Feb 12 19:11:10 sivang: wtf? Feb 12 19:11:12 Chani: microsof has killed better things and better frameworks Feb 12 19:11:29 sivang: we have the Free Qt Foundation, if worst comes to worst Feb 12 19:11:32 Chani: from experience and from peroinsla contact with inventors who got took over Feb 12 19:11:38 Problem with the "Full steam ahead" comments is that it seems to fail to take into effect the perception effect Nokia basically dropping MeeGo will have on MeeGo. Feb 12 19:11:58 GAN900: the perception about anhytihng nokia has been doping Feb 12 19:11:59 nokia is not dropping meego Feb 12 19:11:59 oh well Feb 12 19:12:16 oh right, I was leaving Feb 12 19:12:21 at least the interest to Qt vanished in one day, at least in education-business Feb 12 19:12:25 lpotter, well, it went from their primary platform to some R&D project Feb 12 19:12:28 lpotter: No, just branding it "experimental", "R&D" and planning to ship exactly one device at some point "this year" Feb 12 19:12:28 GAN900: you cannot preach open source for years and then pay royalities to M$ and expect you evelopers to follow you anymore Feb 12 19:12:32 We saw how well that worked for Maemo. Feb 12 19:12:33 meego is it's "disruptive thechnology" Feb 12 19:12:44 Jaffa++ Feb 12 19:12:50 lpotter, effectively the same thing to the market. Feb 12 19:12:54 nokia subsidiaries cancelled all qt-courses scheduled for this year \o/ Feb 12 19:13:05 Jaffa: this changes nothing, really Feb 12 19:13:15 lpotter: Ri-ight. Feb 12 19:13:18 lbt_, X-Fade, Is something wrong with community OBS? Feb 12 19:13:21 Trying openSUSE Build Service server for rpm (MeeGo:current:Core), not found at repo.pub.meego.com. Feb 12 19:13:23 lpotter: I'm afraid I think that's so very wrong. Feb 12 19:13:26 lpotter: please grasp reality Feb 12 19:13:29 Its clear that nokia will abandon the ship of OSS and Meego without nokia would become a moblin with a different name, dont think? Feb 12 19:13:36 lpotter: ask dneary about cancelled qt courses Feb 12 19:14:00 lpotter: as me about active leave from qt since app developers felt it has non stable future Feb 12 19:14:18 lpotter: I can give you names of 10 contacts throughout EU who refused to let me help them in qt Feb 12 19:14:22 lpotter: owners of companies Feb 12 19:14:27 elop-devil: no, Moblin was only for netbooks Feb 12 19:14:27 lpotter: small one, yes Feb 12 19:14:28 Now, hopefully some relatively big names will have some MeeGo tablets lined up for MWC. That might salvage something, but their boards will be asking "why are we using MeeGo when one of its own founders considers it only an experimental project?" Feb 12 19:14:32 smoku: I got the same. local builds didn't work but in the server they do Feb 12 19:14:42 elop-devil: and had fewer resources behind it Feb 12 19:14:51 timoph, yeah. I wanted to fetch some packages to do local build Feb 12 19:14:51 sorry to inform you , but meego has always been experimental R&D Feb 12 19:15:09 lpotter: Source? Feb 12 19:15:12 jonnor: and that is the final destiny of meego without nokia supporting it, dont think? Feb 12 19:15:24 and it just hit me tat new microsoft lead nokia will not use meego for a disruptive technology the next time Feb 12 19:15:25 sivang: will he be able to do that? Feb 12 19:15:25 source is me Feb 12 19:15:29 lpotter: Anyway, *Qt* was the platform. It now isn't. Feb 12 19:15:32 but a windows innovation Feb 12 19:15:42 elop-devil: no, Meego targets other things that netbooks Feb 12 19:15:48 so sometimes you just have to look at reality in the eyes Feb 12 19:15:58 because you also have to make a living Feb 12 19:16:02 anyway Feb 12 19:16:20 Jaffa: Qt is still the application platform for Meego Feb 12 19:16:26 WP7's UI looks awful. if that's the direction, then no more nokia for me. Feb 12 19:16:34 jonnor: But it's not for Nokia. Feb 12 19:16:35 they will never change strategy again, because microsoft don't have any more vendors to screw like they did with the others Feb 12 19:16:38 jonnor: yes, i know, but thats because nokia was supporting it... but now this seems that will change Feb 12 19:16:47 smoku: sorry, adsl drop Feb 12 19:16:48 so this time this deal sticks Feb 12 19:16:52 for better or worse Feb 12 19:16:53 jonnor: And Nokia brought the mass-market devices to Qt/MeeGo (delete as appropriate) Feb 12 19:16:57 Jaffa: Not in smartphones no. But it is in featurephones (ontop of Symbian) Feb 12 19:17:00 and the Finnish givernment was already notified :) Feb 12 19:17:16 smoku: so... more details? Feb 12 19:17:21 jonnor: But that's the market that Nokia was losing ground in... Feb 12 19:17:24 unfortunately Finnish government didn't get the message :P Feb 12 19:17:27 Jaffa: Nokia has not brough anything yet :) Feb 12 19:17:35 Jaffa, agree - Nokia's contribution to MeeGo wouldn't have been software as much - Intel did a better job there - but the devices ... Feb 12 19:17:51 the prime minister was just commenting that "this is best for nokia and we believe that the company knows what it does..." Feb 12 19:17:59 jonnor: No; and no-one else has brought any either. So it's a nice base for IVI or an STB... Feb 12 19:18:03 Jartza: I gues if they did they would intervene in the process of making one of europes largest job provider to a steal factory Feb 12 19:18:07 funny how a CEO with Microsoft shares is allowed to make such decisions though. Feb 12 19:18:11 the company != the invaders Feb 12 19:18:12 unfortunately, without Nokia Finland would be a dying ship Feb 12 19:18:13 lbt_, 'osc build' does not pull packages from MeeGo:current:Core. only from my home:smoku:* repos Feb 12 19:18:14 Jaffa: yes, this is true. I don't like it either Feb 12 19:18:24 in the same state as Greece or Ireland... or even worse Feb 12 19:18:42 Jartza: that what everybody there told me, but a cabbi told me that they will find something else asthey are smart. Feb 12 19:18:45 hmm Feb 12 19:18:49 Jartza: and they are very very samrt Feb 12 19:19:06 lbt: the same happens for me Feb 12 19:19:13 uI Know, but I guess you need more than just technolgical lead to succeed in today's crewl world Feb 12 19:19:25 sivang: who are they? Feb 12 19:19:28 or "they" Feb 12 19:19:38 design phones ppl want to buy Feb 12 19:20:06 * pupnik spins the propellor on his beanie Feb 12 19:21:11 Jartza: folks inventing technology in finland :) Feb 12 19:21:47 oh. yes we are. but still it would hurt if we got 10000 unemployed it-persons Feb 12 19:22:01 as finland only has 5 million people :) Feb 12 19:22:35 finland does a lot of cool stuff for being so small Feb 12 19:22:40 twice that many in silicon valley :) Feb 12 19:23:29 smoku: I'm kinda busy... I need to practically cut'n'paste stuff to reproduce. Can you log a bug with details please. I think we have the community OBS allocating to me now anyway Feb 12 19:23:44 pupnik: well we have a long history of being oppressed by "bigger ones", so we've found out ways to survive on our own :) Feb 12 19:23:59 that also includes implementing and inventing a lot of stuff Feb 12 19:24:41 lbt, ok. no hurry ;-) Feb 12 19:25:59 . Feb 12 19:27:08 Jartza: Iknow, and this what hurts me the most in this situation. this is forgetting the company's expertise and letting someone else control your platofrm. Feb 12 19:27:59 yeah Feb 12 19:28:09 and it also affects quite a lot of others. Feb 12 19:28:12 not just Nokia Feb 12 19:28:43 it also looks like I have to find another business Feb 12 19:29:48 basically giving up the mobile+services ecosystem to ms doesnt look good Feb 12 19:30:30 shyoty_: it is a move which would be very hard to reverse that is the problem Feb 12 19:30:43 going back to something of nokia's own later will be even more late than now and not going to happen i guess Feb 12 19:30:49 yup Feb 12 19:32:04 as I have my own small training company, I mainly train Qt/maemo/MeeGO/Linux -stuff... Feb 12 19:32:29 one week ago my work situation for this year looked promising Feb 12 19:32:43 yesterday, 80% of courses got cancelled Feb 12 19:32:51 Jartza: I'm sorry :( Feb 12 19:32:51 :/ Feb 12 19:34:11 yeah, it's a bit painful as self-employed entrepreneur... Feb 12 19:34:35 either I have to learn some new topics myself, or forget the whole thing Feb 12 19:34:50 but anyways it looks like I also have to find new customers Feb 12 19:34:53 Jartza: http://silverlight.net :P Feb 12 19:35:00 nope Feb 12 19:35:01 hohoho Feb 12 19:35:04 :) Feb 12 19:35:17 xD Feb 12 19:35:19 most probably "Android Java" and Objective C :P Feb 12 19:35:31 heheh Feb 12 19:36:16 Jartza: why would you want to learn that ? Feb 12 19:36:28 what good is nokia going to get from the deal, considering what it's giving up Feb 12 19:37:11 shyoty: nothing really, imo Feb 12 19:37:54 pinchartl: to be able to train those subjects. at least it seems that there is an order for those courses. Feb 12 19:38:01 yes that's what i think too Feb 12 19:38:18 as training is what I'm good at Feb 12 19:39:29 I would like to continue training qt/maemo/meego/linux -subjects, but at least at the moment it looks like no-go Feb 12 19:40:04 and I'm pretty sure that monday will bring more cancellations Feb 12 19:40:07 Jartza: if suicide bombing was the next big thing, you wouldn't train for it :-) Feb 12 19:40:20 nope :) Feb 12 19:40:30 but I have to live Feb 12 19:40:33 I pay my own salary Feb 12 19:40:40 so do I Feb 12 19:40:47 and I'm a Nokia contractor working on MeeGo Feb 12 19:40:59 Jartza: I also feel sorry for all the guys who're being fired by nokia Feb 12 19:41:00 at the moment it looks like I'm going to starve as 80% of my clients cancelled :P Feb 12 19:41:08 Venemo_N900: me too. Feb 12 19:41:13 I think a lot of people will sue them... Feb 12 19:41:16 although I already left Nokia at 2008 Feb 12 19:41:20 or was it 2007 already Feb 12 19:41:23 Jartza: :( Feb 12 19:41:33 but I left voluntarily :) Feb 12 19:44:25 well, or we can end up creating our own market ;) Feb 12 19:44:38 Stskeeps: what do you mean? Feb 12 19:45:18 Stskeeps: I like that idea much better Feb 12 19:45:44 :( Feb 12 19:45:46 meego's a quite nice platform and i definately feel there's room for meego-based products Feb 12 19:45:50 and interest, too Feb 12 19:45:55 Stskeeps: I agree Feb 12 19:46:09 Stskeeps: so how will we achieve this? Feb 12 19:46:12 the problem is, the embedded market has a high barrier of entry for small entities Feb 12 19:46:23 cost of development hardware Feb 12 19:46:28 cost of prototyping Feb 12 19:46:29 See OpenMoko, GP2X, Pandora, ... Feb 12 19:46:52 Stskeeps: I'd love to have a big name come in and support MeeGo. Feb 12 19:46:53 meego is interesting but maybe still too unfinished Feb 12 19:47:00 Oooh, let's resurrect Psion :-) Feb 12 19:47:12 TSCHAKeee: time to market even in embedded is key - if you don't have to reinvent your platform and just make a hardware adaptation on top of meego, that alone cuts a -lot- of time Feb 12 19:47:18 Jaffa: let's get Archos to manufacture MeeGo tablets Feb 12 19:47:22 Stskeeps: and I do agree there. Feb 12 19:47:49 Stskeeps: my problem that I keep running into, is finding hardware where I can actually talk to somebody to get drivers for something as trivial as the graphics chip. Feb 12 19:47:59 TSCHAKeee: Linaro helps this matter a lot :) Feb 12 19:48:05 i.e. the #(%#@%(#@ Mali200 Feb 12 19:48:09 Stskeeps: Linaro? Feb 12 19:48:16 TSCHAKeee: i've seen mali packaged for meego Feb 12 19:48:26 ...WHERE?! Feb 12 19:48:30 Venemo_N900: Commoditising ARM Linux Feb 12 19:48:39 mhm Feb 12 19:48:57 Jaffa: commoditising? Feb 12 19:49:18 Stskeeps: I wish we could convince OpenPeak to sell one offs of their hardware... I have a Joggler here (OpenFrame basically), and it is _WONDERFUL_ hardware Feb 12 19:49:58 Venemo_N900: Err, making cheap & easy. A commodity. Feb 12 19:50:09 Jaffa: ah, okay Feb 12 19:50:29 hmm guys, I have a package waiting to be submitted into OBS Feb 12 19:50:34 did anyone notice? Feb 12 19:50:44 for like, two days now. Feb 12 19:53:41 looking at google maps, London reminds me of the death star Feb 12 19:56:47 CosmoHill: is openstreetmap.org any better? Feb 12 19:57:09 I mean you have london, a bit of green then a small city next to it Feb 12 20:00:20 Stskeeps: we shold start approching a handset vendor or talk to Intel about this Feb 12 20:01:46 http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/nokia-appoints-chris-weber-to-president-of-nokia-inc-us-and-head-of-markets-north-america-115904119.html Feb 12 20:01:54 oh... more people from Microsoft :) Feb 12 20:03:30 Jartza: yes, apple outsider mentioned it "it's a coup, folks", looks bad Feb 12 20:03:41 yeah Feb 12 20:03:58 Jartza: could you tell me a bit more about your qt courses? Feb 12 20:04:16 Stskeeps: what about them? :) Feb 12 20:04:36 Stskeeps: I mostly train people who already know C++ (mostly symbian-people) to Qt. Feb 12 20:04:48 usually 3-5 day courses Feb 12 20:04:58 of course I also teach C++ if that's needed Feb 12 20:05:02 Jartza: oh nice Feb 12 20:05:18 http://firebay.fi/ Feb 12 20:05:26 actually I should make an english homepage :) Feb 12 20:05:33 Jartza: bookmarked, ta Feb 12 20:05:41 sivang: is there anything Intel has to say about this horseshit? Feb 12 20:05:52 Venemo_N900: intel made a blog post earlier Feb 12 20:06:00 http://blogs.intel.com/technology/2011/02/intel_and_meego.php Feb 12 20:06:02 Stskeeps: link please? Feb 12 20:06:08 Stskeeps: thanks Feb 12 20:06:23 I was just going to become Forum Nokia certified trainer. Feb 12 20:06:41 I don't know how advantageous that would be right now as I know close to nothing about windows :) Feb 12 20:07:09 I haven't used windows in like 6-7 years, unless forced to :D Feb 12 20:07:13 One of those trainers with lights in the heels? Feb 12 20:07:23 ? Feb 12 20:07:23 xwindows is windows too! Feb 12 20:07:26 nvm Feb 12 20:07:37 I don't know about the lights :) Feb 12 20:08:11 except I went to boston to train Nokia people. During the course they got an announcement that the whole site was going to be shut down. Feb 12 20:08:32 so I basically went there to shut down the lights :) Feb 12 20:08:44 Jartza: buston site? Feb 12 20:08:49 boston... Feb 12 20:08:53 yes Feb 12 20:08:55 sivang: Well, it'd have to be managed carefully. "MeeGo Project runs around looking for hardware platforms and sponsors" isn't necessarily a positive headline. Feb 12 20:09:06 Jaffa: true Feb 12 20:09:29 Jaffa: that is why intel could take the lead on handset as well until another one comes Feb 12 20:09:33 Jaffa: well Intel still has a hw platform and they're behing MeeGo also Feb 12 20:09:43 or more closely, it was in Burlington Feb 12 20:09:48 Venemo_N900: Intel has a hardware platform, true. But no CE manufacturing arm Feb 12 20:09:55 after that I went to Vancouver site. Feb 12 20:09:58 do handset vendors have to pay google for android? Feb 12 20:10:03 again, during the course they got an announcement Feb 12 20:10:17 this time they only did shut down half of the jobs there. Feb 12 20:10:21 tarantism_: you asked me a question last night and i didn't manage to answer before you left, could you re-iterate it? Feb 12 20:10:24 but I got a bit afraid :D Feb 12 20:10:25 Jartza: angel of death? Feb 12 20:10:26 :P Feb 12 20:10:27 Now, true, Android made HTC a much more household name than they were before Android; so maybe MeeGo could do the same for another smaller manufacturer. Feb 12 20:10:32 Jartza: sound very bad Feb 12 20:10:51 Jaffa: let's approach Archos? Feb 12 20:10:55 well, not my fault of course, but just strange coincidences :) Feb 12 20:11:02 Jartza: precisly Feb 12 20:11:04 Jartza: how do you feel about visiting MS headquarters? Feb 12 20:11:05 :P Feb 12 20:11:08 Stskeeps: :D Feb 12 20:11:12 I'd love to Feb 12 20:11:16 Jartza: :D Feb 12 20:11:17 stskeeps: I was trying to understand how the development programme worked. ie who manages the timescales? Feb 12 20:11:21 maybe I could teach some Qt for them :D Feb 12 20:11:31 Jartza: sure! Feb 12 20:11:44 din't elop said silverlight it is going to be? Feb 12 20:11:52 or is thing part of the trnasition stage? :) Feb 12 20:11:58 tarantism_: ok, so, generally, a feature is first accepted when someone commits to taking care of it - then, as release schedule slips, it's put onto a next release/reevaluated Feb 12 20:12:04 sivang: oh god Feb 12 20:12:28 tbh I wouldn't mind learning silverlight but they don't support my mac Feb 12 20:13:01 stskeeps: so I guess it's not possible to have one huge gantt chart that tells you when everything will be done. Feb 12 20:13:20 Stskeeps: ms HQs ? :) Feb 12 20:13:48 tarantism_: well, in a realistic world we have release targets for when a feature's supposed to be in Feb 12 20:13:54 hmmh Feb 12 20:14:14 maybe I'll send some email to MS that I'm more than willing to come over and organize few training sessions :) Feb 12 20:14:29 "if you just pay my flights... this is just for common good!" Feb 12 20:14:52 stskeeps: thanks. just for my interest. i've never worked on something with this many moving parts. Feb 12 20:17:59 tarantism_: i've had to cut off reading about kernel and ivi, too much to follow :) Feb 12 20:19:19 stskeeps: understand. I'd imagined that you were in testing and bug fixing at this time. Feb 12 20:19:47 Venemo_N900: why would Archos use Meego, they began a quite strong Android strategy Feb 12 20:20:19 chouchoune: because right now everyone's making android tablets Feb 12 20:20:42 chouchoune: they could make differece by making a MeeGo tablet Feb 12 20:20:56 right, but why Archos and not others ? Feb 12 20:21:15 chouchoune: I didn't say 'not the others' Feb 12 20:21:16 what makes the thing easyer with Archos ? Feb 12 20:21:36 chouchoune: they were just first to come to my mind, that's all Feb 12 20:21:41 ok, I thought you wanted to point that it would be maybe easyer with Archos than others Feb 12 20:21:48 ok ;) Feb 12 20:21:56 hmmh. Feb 12 20:22:15 a friend of mine told that there's a lot of Qt/MeeGo -activities going on in Spain Feb 12 20:22:21 but actually, Archos hasn't any phone Feb 12 20:22:22 maybe I should go there to train. Feb 12 20:22:26 chouchoune: also, Archos has opened up their tablets to allow running other OSes Feb 12 20:22:37 chouchoune: yeah, they make tablets Feb 12 20:22:46 and Intel announced some months ago that they partnered with Acer for a Meego tablet no ? Feb 12 20:24:25 http://talklaptops.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/intel-barclays-capital-slide-12-10-small.jpg Feb 12 20:24:50 I don't know if it's still planned ... Feb 12 20:26:02 acer might make a phone (speculation) Feb 12 20:28:23 sigh, meego still the 3rd rate world for hardware people. Feb 12 20:29:02 ? Feb 12 20:35:44 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/exclusive-nokias-windows-phone-7-concept-revealed/ Feb 12 20:36:01 pexi: this isn't #wp7, sorry :) Feb 12 20:38:13 :) Feb 12 20:47:39 Chani: here? Feb 12 20:48:01 Chani: look at th graphs - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_more_details/ Feb 12 20:48:07 Chani: and at the second page Feb 12 20:48:17 Chani: this is partially what decision makers are reading, hence the problem Feb 12 20:48:26 now I'm off. Feb 12 20:49:17 sivang: what phone do you have and what do you think of it? Feb 12 20:49:32 pexi: whatever, who cares about nokia anymore? they will just make some wp7 phones now. i don't want wp7 anyway. and even if I wanted it, why should I buy a nokia device (when it's finally available)? Feb 12 20:49:32 Why not fire elop now? Feb 12 20:49:56 How many billions in value has he cost nokia? Feb 12 20:50:27 CosmoHill: I have a computer that has a call making app Feb 12 20:50:33 they are still developing meego Feb 12 20:50:39 CosmoHill: that computer is RX-51 Feb 12 20:51:06 but they need good smartphones for the masses Feb 12 20:51:52 http://www.tietoviikko.fi/multimedia/archive/00087/Nokian-tutkimus-ja-k_87075a.jpg Feb 12 20:52:57 some analysis from the Register http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_more_details/ Feb 12 20:53:24 yeah, was pasted above Feb 12 20:53:50 CosmoHill: this is just part of what I think of it, and only a small taste how better it will get with MeeGo: http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/sivan-greenbergs-forum-nokia-blog/2010/09/29/maemo-meego-ivi-without-an-in-built-ivi-system-or-how-to-be-in-tel-aviv-and-feel-a-bit-like-you-re-in-helsinki Feb 12 20:54:19 it's a week of long URLs Feb 12 20:54:47 maybe forum nokia move to sharepoint now so it will be better :P Feb 12 20:55:59 CosmoHill: I hope it does not sound sick, but I think I am inlove with this small computer who's a companion and a portal to the great world where ever I go. Feb 12 20:56:14 now I 'm gone laters Feb 12 21:00:21 anyone now which phone is best supported by meego? htc hd2 maybe? Feb 12 21:01:18 n97: n900, probably Feb 12 21:02:03 lets just say Nokia is no alternative these days Feb 12 21:02:14 I got burned by N770, N810 and so on Feb 12 21:02:23 yes, but you asked a question and i told you :) Feb 12 21:02:37 htc hd2 doesn't even have voice, afaik Feb 12 21:03:05 * TSCHAKeee rolls his eyes Feb 12 21:03:16 "burned" by the N770/N810 and so on??? Feb 12 21:03:19 really? Feb 12 21:04:04 yepp, the hardware faulted on be right after the waranty whent out Feb 12 21:04:37 that's funny. I have a 770 that still works, I bought in 2005. Feb 12 21:05:08 my n800 and n810 still work as well, (I use my N810 as my pda, with GarnetVM installed) Feb 12 21:05:19 the N810 was solid as a rock, but the touch screen stopped working all of a sudden Feb 12 21:05:19 my n900 is my primary carry around though. Feb 12 21:05:46 n97, the cables often came loose. Feb 12 21:05:57 n97, you can open them up and reattach. Feb 12 21:06:04 is that possible to fix in a somewhat easy way? Feb 12 21:06:10 allright! Feb 12 21:06:18 that was good news :) Feb 12 21:06:32 n97: are you gonna change your nick when you get a new phone? Feb 12 21:07:28 CosmoHill: I was hoping for n9 Feb 12 21:07:36 but you know... Feb 12 21:07:50 someone took your nick? Feb 12 21:08:04 two a guy 2 years to find out why I use my surname on this server but not another one Feb 12 21:08:25 *took Feb 12 21:28:50 http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-022.htm [ The Windows MetaFile Backdoor ] - Trojan horse malware manufacturer coming soon, to a phone near you? Feb 12 21:33:08 I'm not sure if any CEO in the history of computer-related companies has ever delivered a "you're a worthless bunch unable to deliver proper software, I don't need you anymore" message to *all* his software developers Feb 12 21:33:31 but we "worthless bunch" ought to answer Feb 12 21:34:08 there's a lot of energy in anger ;) Feb 12 21:34:45 which is why we should use that energe to constructive means while it's there Feb 12 21:34:50 :nod: Feb 12 21:34:53 Stskeeps: are you the same as on talk.maemo.org and working on maemo 5 for N810? Feb 12 21:35:04 n97: yes but no Feb 12 21:35:14 Tunisia, then Egypt, then Nokia ? :-D Feb 12 21:35:57 I have been lurking that board for a long time Feb 12 21:36:06 you make lots of good points from time to time Feb 12 21:36:54 indeed he does Feb 12 21:37:26 also a lot of bad ones ;) Feb 12 21:37:49 tunisia and egypt have lost a dictator, not gained one Feb 12 21:38:55 irz: I mean it's now time to follow that path, now that we got a dictator ;-) Feb 12 21:39:19 for all I know he might just be a puppet Feb 12 21:49:27 pinchartl: Getting rid of the dictator when he ruled 20+ years? Feb 12 21:50:31 bunk: this one ruled for a couple of months only, but did an impressive amount of damage in such a short time Feb 12 21:52:35 pinchartl: I don't think it's only his fault. IMHO the problem is that N did two big strategical changes within less than 12 months. Feb 12 21:53:03 bunk: management before him was bad as well. but this is the deadly blow Feb 12 21:55:04 pinchartl: Any of the 3 platform options (Symbian, MeeGo, Windows) sunds like a valid choice with advantages and disadvantages to me, but the huge overhead of switching strategies makes the frequent changes scary. Feb 12 21:55:16 in Egypt and Tunisia, the dictarors where seen as good leaders at the beginning : that's a big difference with Nokia ;) Feb 12 21:56:06 pinchartl: Another example is the engineering effort spent on (and the GTK+ engineers lost) in the GTK+ -> Qt transition, only for now ditching Qt. Feb 12 21:58:01 MeeGo could not deliver so it was time for Nokia management to look for something that could. Feb 12 21:58:15 * bunk doesn't like Windows, but also sees possible advantages for N in the partnership with M$ Feb 12 21:59:18 Kypeli: well, by MeeGo do you mean meego.com or Harmattan program Feb 12 21:59:24 first one isn't as bad as latter, probably :) Feb 12 22:00:05 who won was android/google Feb 12 22:01:17 Stskeeps: Yeah - the latter :) Feb 12 22:01:26 we'll know who won in 2 or 3 years Feb 12 22:01:47 Stskeeps: But in the end, Meego.com in itself has no value for Nokia - Nokia needed a smartphone they could ship. This didn't happen with or without Meego.com Feb 12 22:01:54 Kypeli: yeah Feb 12 22:02:29 But having worked for MeeGo harmattan - I can only say that oh boy did they try their best :) Feb 12 22:02:46 a lot of fingers can be pointed at execution, for sure Feb 12 22:03:26 and choices, etc Feb 12 22:03:30 but we're here now Feb 12 22:03:31 :P Feb 12 22:03:51 (denial phase or hope? hmm) Feb 12 22:04:55 is there a decent htc phone with portrait keyboard that can run meego? Feb 12 22:08:44 pupnik: sure, most will I believe. no accelerated 3D though Feb 12 22:11:08 then useless! Feb 12 22:26:34 pinchartl: agreed Feb 12 22:36:17 would meego run on a HTC Desire ? Feb 12 23:10:02 cosmohill, which night is topgear on? Feb 12 23:10:10 sunday Feb 12 23:10:41 cool, ta. Feb 12 23:11:03 having a look at LG pop and cookie Feb 12 23:11:17 physically they look nice, the specs are poop Feb 12 23:11:43 there are a lot of shiney devices. Feb 12 23:12:32 its cool watching the guys bring meego up on them. Feb 12 23:12:43 I think vgrade has high score so far. Feb 12 23:13:02 3 or 4 I think Feb 12 23:13:18 my nokia is literary falling to bits (me pulling on them can't help) Feb 12 23:13:37 * lcukn900 can only file/chase/poke at bugs and awestruck by adaption teams Feb 12 23:13:49 which nokia? Feb 12 23:13:55 6220 classic Feb 12 23:13:59 cool Feb 12 23:14:06 annoyingly it's not listed on the Nokia UK website Feb 12 23:14:07 which OS does it run? Feb 12 23:14:11 S60 Feb 12 23:15:19 so what spec hardware is that? Feb 12 23:15:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6220c Feb 12 23:16:04 I tried it for a week to see if I'd replace my SE K800i with it Feb 12 23:16:11 that was about a year ago i think Feb 12 23:16:31 cool Feb 12 23:16:43 its quite powerful then :) Feb 12 23:16:59 so I shouldn't replace it with a £50 LG? Feb 12 23:17:13 does it make calls? Feb 12 23:17:21 does it do everything you need? Feb 12 23:17:30 mostly, battery dies mid call and only ever mid call Feb 12 23:18:28 that is not good, perhaps replace battery as first step? Feb 12 23:19:05 it needs a new battery, case and I broke the keypad on wednesday Feb 12 23:19:11 doh Feb 12 23:19:55 one big problem I have is that I keep comparing all camera's to my DSLR Feb 12 23:20:12 whee Feb 12 23:20:20 I fixed my other N900 Feb 12 23:20:25 you would look funny holding dslr to your ear! Feb 12 23:20:25 for a phone it has a good camera tho Feb 12 23:20:30 now I have two working ones Feb 12 23:20:37 yayyy jartza Feb 12 23:20:38 awesome Feb 12 23:20:56 I can dedicate the other to meego Feb 12 23:21:16 CosmoHill, that's a road fraught with disappointment. Feb 12 23:21:37 comparing phones to DSLRs? Feb 12 23:21:57 or should I try to install WP7 to my N900? *grin* Feb 12 23:22:00 when the phone wins it means it's time for a new camera Feb 12 23:22:24 I think I get windows mobile from uni Feb 12 23:23:54 CosmoHill, yes. Feb 12 23:24:02 Phone really wont ever win. Feb 12 23:24:06 Sensor size and all. Feb 12 23:24:23 it's good for when I need to take a pic and I don't have my proper camera on me Feb 12 23:24:39 gan900 we could use entire back of device as sensor Feb 12 23:24:54 CosmoHill, it's similar to the N95 right? Feb 12 23:24:57 I wish you could get the N900's camera up fast enough for that. Feb 12 23:25:08 lcukn900, and where will you put the lens? :) Feb 12 23:25:42 gan900 you want a proper camera but with a fixed lens? interchangable sir, interchangable! Feb 12 23:25:58 clip on a telephoto one! Feb 12 23:27:07 * lcukn900 vanishes for a bit. ttyl \o Feb 12 23:27:09 MohammadAG: no idea Feb 12 23:30:01 vgrade: do you think meego could go on a 6220c? Feb 12 23:50:24 how does phones like the n900 perform if the user has sweaty / clammy hands? Feb 12 23:52:05 fine, in my experience Feb 12 23:52:48 CosmoHill: yeah, fine for me, not sure what you mean :P Feb 12 23:58:24 I was using my mates LG pop and pretty much stroking it trying to get it to scroll down Feb 12 23:58:27 okay, so not all is lost: Feb 12 23:58:31 http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.php Feb 12 23:59:58 thank god for kde Feb 13 00:00:04 and kde e.V Feb 13 00:23:03 CosmoHill: no capacitve display can ever come close Feb 13 00:23:14 CosmoHill: I use it with complete wet hands or under heavy rain Feb 13 00:23:20 CosmoHill: it does not even blink Feb 13 00:23:30 unless I get an SMS :) Feb 13 00:23:30 the n900 or lg pop? Feb 13 00:23:35 CosmoHill: n900 Feb 13 00:23:51 CosmoHill: my lg top has the worst keyboard and touchpad ever Feb 13 00:23:53 worst Feb 13 00:24:24 http://www.ubergizmo.com/2009/10/lg-x-note-t380-goes-to-the-fat-house/ Feb 13 00:24:37 but it runs linux amazingly and lasts for 10 hours without charge on ubuntu Feb 13 00:24:51 CosmoHill: windows 7 c, 7 hours Feb 13 00:24:55 s/c// Feb 13 00:25:24 i get about 10 hours out of meego netbook from this eeePC 1005PEG Feb 13 00:25:37 meego is od as well Feb 13 00:25:47 meego's boot time is amazing Feb 13 00:25:51 sivang: the free qt foundation would kick in if nokia stopped releasing feature updates of Qt for 12 months Feb 13 00:26:03 but all that would get is Qt licensed as BSD Feb 13 00:26:15 sivang: indeed. I run a modified meego core on both my Archos 9 and Joggler Feb 13 00:26:22 sivang: to run our Orbiter software Feb 13 00:26:24 quite frankly, if Qt were to live on as an independent OSS project, LGPL is better Feb 13 00:26:35 thiago_home: right, I just realized Feb 13 00:26:43 forces people to contribute back their improvements -- see webkit Feb 13 00:26:47 thiago_home: since then a vendor could take it close it give a copyright nice Feb 13 00:26:51 notice Feb 13 00:26:56 and that's it Feb 13 00:27:01 we need to reopn the agreenemnt Feb 13 00:27:06 and change it to GPL Feb 13 00:27:07 no need Feb 13 00:27:09 Qt is already LGPL Feb 13 00:27:23 even if NOkia steps down? Feb 13 00:27:34 it's *already* LGPL Feb 13 00:27:37 irrevocable Feb 13 00:27:37 ah Feb 13 00:27:39 right Feb 13 00:28:00 this version is LGPL, nothing anyone can do about it Feb 13 00:28:05 one of the many reasons Microsoft hates the LGPL Feb 13 00:28:30 when Richard visit Israelnxt month, I am going to kiss his beard Feb 13 00:28:36 :) Feb 13 00:28:54 well, maybe just in spirit :) Feb 13 00:28:55 sivang: dude, he hasn't taken a bath in 47 years... ;) Feb 13 00:29:01 TSCHAKeee: OL Feb 13 00:29:03 see up Feb 13 00:29:22 TSCHAKeee: yes, I just gave thought to this and rephrased Feb 13 00:29:27 Israelis are used to living in danger :) Feb 13 00:29:32 i see him from time to time here in Cambridge Feb 13 00:29:32 berndhs: true true Feb 13 00:29:41 he always...wears...the same clothes.... Feb 13 00:29:44 berndhs: we suffer and danger for a living Feb 13 00:29:58 berndhs: were you the guy waiting with me to get hte meego idepad? Feb 13 00:30:06 berndhs: that visited here and rented a car? Feb 13 00:30:18 no, never been anywhere near the place Feb 13 00:31:03 "Bernd" is a common name Feb 13 00:31:14 sure Feb 13 00:32:39 * CosmoHill normalised a database Feb 13 00:32:44 shame I can do the same to humans Feb 13 00:33:04 CosmoHill: normal people tend to be boring Feb 13 00:33:05 CosmoHill: heh , I recall the databases course Feb 13 00:33:24 I'm still to go to a lecture drunk or with a hang over Feb 13 00:33:38 better drunk Feb 13 00:33:42 hung over is just a pain Feb 13 00:33:48 yeah i recommend drunk Feb 13 00:33:55 a pint a lunch should do it Feb 13 00:33:55 plus relational algebra makes much more sense when you are drunk Feb 13 00:34:40 losens the mind to move the letters about Feb 13 00:34:53 i used to go to class with an irish coffee in my stomach. Feb 13 00:35:03 it made class very enjoyable. ;) Feb 13 00:35:21 perhaps even makes relational algebra seem interesting Feb 13 00:35:36 irish coffee == brilliant balance Feb 13 00:35:52 I woner what nokia strategy this servers? I mean, qt runs nicely on windows right? http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.engadget.com%2F2011%2F02%2F11%2Fnokia-notifies-developers-that-qt-is-out-for-windows-phone-devel%2F&h=12716 Feb 13 00:36:00 *serves Feb 13 00:36:20 heck, symbian development is only on windows if not using remote compiler :) Feb 13 00:36:45 TSCHAKeee: eeeewwww, coffee Feb 13 00:36:57 and you call yourself a coder?! Feb 13 00:37:09 if I go to uni with irish in my stomach people might get the wrong idea Feb 13 00:37:30 berndhs: heh right on Feb 13 00:37:57 TSCHAKeee, coffe has a nice effect of removing dizzyness of alcohol ;-) Feb 13 00:38:16 sivang: it serves a very simple strategy, Microsoft doesn't want portability to other platforms, and Microsoft now owns nokia. Feb 13 00:38:17 TSCHAKeee, I used to use beer+espresso combo :) Feb 13 00:39:17 sivang: Elop left Microsoft only in September of last year, after the announcement, he's replaced three executives with former Microsoft employees. This is not a partnership, it is a coup. Feb 13 00:39:35 EdLin: this can't be it. I read on #kde-cafe that wp is not windows, it does not even have anative sdk Feb 13 00:39:38 EdLin, if you look broader it may turn out to be better portability. Mono and friends are very compatible with miscrosoft APIs Feb 13 00:39:47 so maybe it is an effort to port it here Feb 13 00:40:34 smoku: mono and friends are in violation of several Microsoft patents, and Microsoft hasn't exactly been warm towards their efforts. Feb 13 00:41:06 EdLin, Miguel has a different opinion :) Feb 13 00:41:20 Miguel has a lot of opinions that are... different. Feb 13 00:41:25 :D Feb 13 00:42:15 Miquel makes the same mistake Nokia is making, trusting Microsoft. Feb 13 00:42:38 it's all just flexing muscles, until someone brings it to the court ;-) Feb 13 00:43:20 well yesssss.... Feb 13 00:43:34 and in the end GNOME will rule the world :> Feb 13 00:44:17 smoku: Mircrosoft is waiting until Mono becomes a greater part of the Linux ecosystem, they won't do too much damage as long as it's only a marginal part of it, so they're only saying they can sue, and not suing. Feb 13 00:44:56 smoku: GNOME is not even going to rule Ubuntu, what makes you think it's going to rule the world? ;-) Feb 13 00:45:27 GTk, maybe, I'll grant you that. :-) Feb 13 00:45:39 superior technologies olways win overall Feb 13 00:45:47 *always Feb 13 00:45:57 http://qt.nokia.com/developer/learning/online/talks/developerdays2010/tech-talks/qt-for-cross-platform-mobile-development Feb 13 00:46:03 GNOME is a superior technology? in what way. Feb 13 00:46:05 very nice talk I liked in Munich Feb 13 00:46:07 recommended Feb 13 00:46:32 EdLin, I'm not talking about gnome-desktop (especially with the crazy stuff they are doing in gnome3) Feb 13 00:46:50 brb, nature calls. Feb 13 00:47:01 EdLin, but yes, GTK+ and the other core gnome technologies. that BTW are part of meego core :) Feb 13 00:48:57 I conclude that if it was easy to get qt to WP7 it would be allowd, since what does microsoft cares if more apps run on their platform? Feb 13 00:49:40 and they have even easier transition path for symbian developers? Feb 13 00:50:14 sivang, symbian developers are used to brain-dead APIs anyway ;-) Feb 13 00:51:09 ms doesn't want qt because that free's you from their stuff Feb 13 00:51:31 same thing Apple does Feb 13 00:51:41 banning toolkits from their devices Feb 13 00:52:24 microsoft actually funds some open development, so I can't just buy this upfront Feb 13 00:52:28 http://ironpython.net/ Feb 13 00:52:38 they have been funding this open source development, sure for .net Feb 13 00:53:33 but it can use proper python not just .net Feb 13 00:53:40 so not all is black or white for me Feb 13 00:53:53 microsoft is very selective on the open source code they support Feb 13 00:54:34 and it always ties in with use of their platforms Feb 13 00:55:15 sivang: are there any ironpython apps for WP7? Feb 13 00:55:38 WP7 only allows XNA or Silverlight apps as far as I know... Feb 13 00:55:47 it runs under silverlight Feb 13 00:56:09 but ironpython is moot, as they want you to use .NET Feb 13 00:56:24 and the only viable set of .NET libraries are Microsoft's Feb 13 00:56:32 http://ironpython.net/browser/docs.html Feb 13 00:56:32 Mono is behind and will continue to be behind Feb 13 00:56:56 ms dropped funding for ironpython some months ago iirc Feb 13 00:57:07 not to mention that it never worked on wp7 Feb 13 00:57:27 javispedro: ah, bad Feb 13 00:58:04 (the fact that they ever did is still an interesting point though) Feb 13 00:58:40 why did it never work on silverlight and how do you know this? :) Feb 13 00:59:18 because I have had to ignore tens of "Please let me use ironpython on wp7"-like posts on the ms newsgroups Feb 13 00:59:21 javispedro: well, interesting only in that it's not a microsoft language Feb 13 00:59:43 javispedro, weren't some big universities teaching Python on computer science? Feb 13 01:00:20 smoku: probably, it is a very academical language design Feb 13 01:00:28 amazing how many sleepless nights without actual work this announcement has caused :) Feb 13 01:00:49 javispedro, maybe this is the answer. (oh, you can do that on windows too) Feb 13 01:01:26 s/windows/.net/ Feb 13 01:01:36 http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/dumol/microsoft_has_cut_funding_for_the_development_of/ Feb 13 01:01:43 darn Feb 13 01:02:04 javispedro: what were you doing on hose ms newsgroups? Feb 13 01:02:17 "real life" work Feb 13 01:02:58 oh :) Feb 13 01:03:01 =) Feb 13 01:03:29 javispedro: now nokia can be part of it :p Feb 13 01:03:45 smoku: yeah, but as per the link sivang just shared, they did the same with IronRuby. IronRuby on universities would be a surprise =) Feb 13 01:04:03 smoku: so my guess is just goodwill PR generation Feb 13 01:04:28 real night now, cheers all, monday is almost here :) Feb 13 01:04:35 cya sivang Feb 13 01:04:37 cheers javispedro :) Feb 13 01:05:47 * javispedro --> bed too. Feb 13 01:06:04 I should go to bed Feb 13 01:06:19 databases and Young Frankenstien Feb 13 01:06:28 yeah, monday is mwc, also nokia's dev event :) Feb 13 01:18:41 night night Feb 13 01:41:56 . Feb 13 01:43:45 mwichmann: ! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Feb 13 02:59:56 2011