**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 18 02:59:57 2011 Feb 18 03:01:34 like grammars and those things, turing machines, graph theory Feb 18 03:01:38 at that level Feb 18 03:04:27 how would it be used? Feb 18 03:04:36 to prove that one input device is better than another? Feb 18 03:04:48 yes that's one way Feb 18 03:04:50 that's totally subjective :) Feb 18 03:04:53 to compare Feb 18 03:05:06 right, currently it is subjective Feb 18 03:05:10 that's bad Feb 18 03:05:28 if you have more formal methods, it becomes less subjective Feb 18 03:05:50 and it could be used to generate interfaces, interpret input Feb 18 03:06:18 same goals as languages now for text, for protocols Feb 18 03:06:41 and same goals as mathematics for hardware design Feb 18 03:06:53 all of those other things do not try to model human behaviour Feb 18 03:07:38 i mean the input methodology Feb 18 03:07:52 to measure and compare and generate thihngs Feb 18 03:08:09 is would help a lot to formally state what it is the interface is doing Feb 18 03:08:26 at least, more formally than now Feb 18 03:09:29 what we do now is alchemy :) Feb 18 08:06:19 Morning Feb 18 08:09:23 Is there any page in the wiki with the status of the meego images Feb 18 08:09:25 ? Feb 18 08:09:31 for n900 Feb 18 08:21:15 Just saw on twitter: http://www.meegocontinues.org/ Feb 18 08:22:11 .. by who? Feb 18 08:23:32 same guy who did the planb?:) Feb 18 08:24:16 tweet was here http://twitter.com/geragray Feb 18 08:24:18 plan c better Feb 18 08:24:19 I wonder why that just can't happen at meego.com, but hey :) Feb 18 08:24:36 I guess the novel angle is req for venture capitalists Feb 18 08:24:45 e.g. private business Feb 18 08:25:10 Intel has multiple times signalled wanting to keep MeeGoing Feb 18 08:25:27 * thiago sends them an email Feb 18 08:25:36 perhaps this is about phones? Feb 18 08:25:40 At least if the news in public media are to be trusted. Feb 18 08:25:50 Lynoure: yeah, and meego.com imad's post Feb 18 08:26:44 well - Intel is looking for people willing to do a phone. These guys may be willing to do phone(s) Feb 18 08:27:12 villev: My bet is they want Nokia to do phones with MeeGo :) Feb 18 08:27:24 it's not very easy Feb 18 08:27:35 from Trolltech's experience with the Greenphone: hardware is hard Feb 18 08:28:05 hardware is becoming less hard I guess, esp. if you can reuse android hw adaptation Feb 18 08:28:09 * Stskeeps is starting to believe a bit in the idea of disruptive technologies as a market where meego can really do a difference too Feb 18 08:28:10 Well, just look at N900 with maemo and the first tech preview of meego on it :) Feb 18 08:28:14 I have to agree; coworker treasures his chipset and cpu errata tomes Feb 18 08:28:22 not sheets, *tomes* Feb 18 08:28:42 and, you can recruit hardware people Feb 18 08:28:54 It makes you appreciate the work that has gone into powermanagement :) Feb 18 08:29:00 nobody can start from scratch I figure Feb 18 08:29:22 pepsodent is making android handset these days I imagine Feb 18 08:29:55 the main challenge is getting basic hardware adaptations from ARM SoC vendors into meego Feb 18 08:29:59 after that, productization is easier Feb 18 08:30:12 Stskeeps: but if you just use Android adaptation? Feb 18 08:30:30 villev: android adaptation can often be used but the problem is the userland stuff Feb 18 08:30:45 such as GLESv2/EGL, modem stuff, etc.. Feb 18 08:31:39 in theory - what would happen if you used android interfaces for graphics? Feb 18 08:31:49 villev: it's tied to bionic libc and often doesn't support x11 Feb 18 08:31:49 and just supporting lighthouse instead of full X Feb 18 08:32:03 villev: i do wonder if wayland + those things would be ok.. Feb 18 08:32:28 right, lighthouse + *perhaps* wayland Feb 18 08:32:58 i don't think many people do remote-X on their phones Feb 18 08:33:05 this may be something more ambitious than "next spring", but... Feb 18 08:33:12 i'm still wondering if we need to adapt armv5/armv6+vfp ports in meego again though Feb 18 08:33:24 or if the road ahead is armv7 only Feb 18 08:33:34 if it allows for cheap future iterations of meego... Feb 18 08:34:56 if there was a port of wayland over android hw adaptation, that should be the trickiest part of hw adaptation already done, right? Feb 18 08:35:30 meego's nice in the way that you really just need to drop in a kernel and various hardware adaptation specific things, + the big one being a GLESv2/EGL impl Feb 18 08:35:53 i mean, while it was a proof of concept, meego did run without hassle on N810 :P Feb 18 08:36:05 N810 had MeeGo about 12 hours after N900 had it. Feb 18 08:36:53 anrdoid phone ports seem to be easy to do as well, sans gl Feb 18 08:37:21 i liked N8's approach of a armv6 chip and then a really good broadcom gfx chip Feb 18 08:37:51 noooooo Feb 18 08:38:10 thiago: goom terror? ;-) Feb 18 08:38:16 http://nooooooooooooooo.com/ Feb 18 08:38:46 so armv7 and up, i see? ;) Feb 18 08:39:14 yeah Feb 18 08:39:36 neon, hard fp, and good GL drivers Feb 18 08:41:28 i wonder if we're restricting ourselves by targetting armv7-a only as well, don't know if there's any value in cortex-r or cortex-m Feb 18 08:43:37 Stskeeps: are there any phones out now or soon that you think will be good matches for MeeGo? Feb 18 08:43:50 (with openGles drivers) Feb 18 08:44:12 pupnik: i suppose palm pre omap36* if not locked down wouldn't be a bad choice Feb 18 08:44:54 think there will be SGX drivers for the LG omap4 phone? Feb 18 08:45:09 pupnik: supposedly omap4 sgx drivers is in works/was published Feb 18 08:45:16 i don't actually know how hackable LG phones are Feb 18 08:45:26 i don't think many people do Feb 18 08:45:32 but it has android Feb 18 08:45:56 so there's at least a basis for linux drivers Feb 18 08:46:29 do you know anything about the progress on the archos a70 port? Feb 18 08:47:16 everyone on omap is having trouble with the MTF + sgx font issue Feb 18 08:47:36 Stskeeps: cortex-r might be interesting Feb 18 08:47:41 cortex-m is a whole different beast Feb 18 08:49:11 thiago: i could do a full rebuild of meego hardfp for armv7-r if there's interest in a quick view of how bad it looks Feb 18 08:49:44 should take a day or so to rebuild Feb 18 08:49:51 ning Feb 18 08:51:10 Stskeeps: I think all ARM manuals list as "ARMv7-AR", so it might not need a rebuild Feb 18 08:51:25 hm, maybe Feb 18 08:51:28 but let's not waste CPU power until we need to Feb 18 08:51:33 k Feb 18 08:51:38 anyway, my point was also that the broadcom solution isn't very good Feb 18 08:51:44 the N8 has severe video memory limitations Feb 18 08:51:59 some of them caused by Symbian (such as reserving 1 MB for the "out of memory" dialog box) Feb 18 08:52:18 most caused by the crappy VG/GL driver Feb 18 08:52:28 if you load the camera app, it takes 28 MB of the 32 of video RAM Feb 18 08:53:08 perhaps it's not so wrong to end-of-life the symbian development Feb 18 08:53:15 pupnik: you think? :-) Feb 18 08:53:37 anyway, the new HW coming out for Symbian isn't bad. If we can run MeeGo on it, it would be great. Feb 18 08:53:53 um. the E7? arm1136? Feb 18 08:54:12 no Feb 18 08:54:23 E7/C6/C7 are the same HW as the N8 Feb 18 08:54:31 oh next ones... Feb 18 08:54:32 I meant the newer ones, the ones not released Feb 18 08:54:42 the n9 :) Feb 18 08:54:56 i would sell my bone-marrow for a meego phone that looked like the E7 Feb 18 08:55:01 that's not symbian (and there's no device announced as N9, yadda yadda yadda) Feb 18 08:55:23 thiago, you said next one the n8, n8 + 1 = n9 ;) Feb 18 08:55:32 khertan: you forgot the extra two digits Feb 18 08:55:40 the C6 I meant is the C6-01, for example Feb 18 08:55:44 thiago, indeed Feb 18 08:56:04 * thiago has an N9-00, minus the dash Feb 18 08:56:48 * alterego has 2x :P Feb 18 08:57:02 but, in the principle of dogfooding, I keep it on my desk during the day Feb 18 08:57:13 I use the prototype during the day :-) Feb 18 08:57:20 has anyone tried meego on the openpandora? :) Feb 18 08:57:33 pupnik: afaik, suffers from the same font problem Feb 18 08:57:42 hum ... didn't see difference between n8 and e7 look like the same Feb 18 08:58:28 the e7 has a keyboard Feb 18 08:58:35 pupnik, not the n8 ? Feb 18 08:58:41 n8 has no keyboard Feb 18 08:58:49 indeed so i prefer e7 too ;) Feb 18 08:58:50 hardware keyboard, he means Feb 18 08:59:09 n8 has the great camera Feb 18 08:59:10 thiago, software keyboard isn't a keyboard Feb 18 08:59:22 the n8 is "classic candybar"; the e7 is an "n97-style slide-out keyboard" Feb 18 08:59:28 pupnik, but without keyboard it s useless Feb 18 08:59:48 thiago, is it useable ? the n97 style ? Feb 18 09:00:01 I mean tilting-up Feb 18 09:00:04 not just slide-out Feb 18 09:00:21 the device I'm holding has xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and the camera is xx MP :-P Feb 18 09:00:35 (one of the x might be a zero) Feb 18 09:00:59 thiago, yep ? but tilting-up is it useable ? Feb 18 09:01:19 I prefer tilting up than simple slide-out like the N900 Feb 18 09:01:42 thiago: ahhhhhh the suspense is horrible to live Feb 18 09:01:54 for example, for watching a video or for typing with more fingers than just your thumbs Feb 18 09:02:22 maybe I can unofficially use the n900 sgx drivers on the openpandora / archos a70 Feb 18 09:02:36 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5616 Feb 18 09:03:04 good luck fahti on finding the problem Feb 18 09:03:24 pupnik: worst part is that we have a really small testcase now - so it should be possible to figure out the issue Feb 18 09:04:49 https://build.pub.meego.com/package/view_file?file=arm-omap-texture.patch&package=qt-omap&project=home:obko << this doesn't fix it? Feb 18 09:05:03 no, we tried Feb 18 09:08:44 Stskeeps: there's nobody at nokia who knows why the nokia sgx driver doesn't show this problem? Feb 18 09:09:14 pupnik: i have a hunch on what's amatter but it's difficult to fix this in mainstream sgx if we don't have a reason why it happens lower down Feb 18 09:09:56 oh since there are a lot of differences... Feb 18 09:10:06 i conclude Feb 18 09:21:11 Does MeeGo have something like gvfs? Feb 18 09:21:22 afaik Feb 18 09:23:57 I was thinking the other day, that what I'd like is a private, encrypted area that you could store photos and docs that you need to unlock them to view them in the photos/whatever app. Feb 18 09:24:11 ah, the porn area.. Feb 18 09:24:32 Mainly because I took some embarrassing photos the other day and I was thinking about how I have a tendency to demo my device to other people ;) Feb 18 09:24:58 Yeah, so I'm wondering about strategies to implement such a facility and integrate it into the UX properly. Feb 18 09:27:10 alterego: check out ecryptfs? it's a userland based system to encrypt subdirectories - uses the normal filesystem underneath, but needs a password to unlock a key to mount the directory Feb 18 09:27:12 maybe making an app dedicated to that, which would encrypt data in a dedicated folder ? ;) Feb 18 09:27:50 - ;) Feb 18 09:28:15 Well, I was thinking of maybe a mirrored, private home, which could get mounted ontop of the normal home when enabled. Feb 18 09:29:25 alterego, LUKS partition, you could at boot choose to enter the password and use the /home that is encrypted or not (Ctrl+C at password prompt) and mount the normal home Feb 18 09:29:26 alterego: yes but you would loose your "non-encrypted" home datas when you mount the encrypted one Feb 18 09:30:13 chouchoune: neah, not with that merged mounting thingy .. Feb 18 09:30:14 alterego, there is also unionfs Feb 18 09:30:25 Yeah, that's it unionfs :) Feb 18 09:31:07 * arfoll thinks unionfs looks like the coolest thing discovered this week Feb 18 09:31:14 Heh Feb 18 09:31:41 arfoll: is it released? (again) Feb 18 09:31:55 alterego: that mirrored private home thing you describe - that's what ecryptfs is /for/ :P Feb 18 09:32:10 lbt, what is released? Feb 18 09:32:33 Anyway, so what I'd invisage is the ability to easily unlock the privated area, which would mount it ala unionfs over home, then to write to the private area it's mounted r/w, under $HOME/Private, or something. Feb 18 09:32:34 alterego: it's done already - you just need to put some UI on the tools - on MeeGo Netbook and Ubuntu etc ecryptfs is integrated with PAM so it mounts/unlocks your encrypted ~ when you log in Feb 18 09:32:37 Robot101: true - does it act like a removable device? Feb 18 09:32:43 Robot101: unionfs Feb 18 09:32:56 what the hell is this unionfs stuff? this is irrelevant. ecryptfs is *EXACTLY WHAT YOU DESCRIBE* Feb 18 09:33:03 Robot101: interesting, I'll look into it :) Feb 18 09:33:10 (I know what unionfs is actually, don't tell me :P) Feb 18 09:33:12 unionfs is 'interesting' ... that's all :) Feb 18 09:33:24 * lbt has no need for pornfs Feb 18 09:33:27 is "not upstream" ;) Feb 18 09:33:32 he has an understanding wife ;) Feb 18 09:33:43 But I want to only "mount" it when required, and have it auto unmount after 5mins or some configured interval. Feb 18 09:33:55 understanding or doesn't know her way around your fs? Feb 18 09:33:56 he *is* however visiting USA so may need a dhsfs Feb 18 09:34:17 arfoll: she's practically my sysadmin ... what's the point Feb 18 09:34:41 Well, this isn't just for porn, this should be an enterprise level security system :) Feb 18 09:34:50 (kidding) Feb 18 09:34:55 I have a lot of sensitive info I carry around with me. Feb 18 09:35:08 ehehe we all believe you Feb 18 09:35:18 :P Feb 18 09:35:27 I'd like to see luks in meego Feb 18 09:35:34 if it's not there Feb 18 09:35:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5sfI9YuIc0&feature=related Feb 18 09:35:59 woops sorry wron,g tab Feb 18 09:35:59 * lbt is too focussed on infra stuff .... although that may change in the near future ;) Feb 18 09:36:15 niala_: aww..... now we *have* to click Feb 18 09:36:20 lbt, i think it is, you just need to install the packages Feb 18 09:36:23 Heh Feb 18 09:36:51 sorry sorry sorry 1000x Feb 18 09:37:06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 Feb 18 09:37:20 oops, wrong window too Feb 18 09:37:25 Okay, now I'm interested :D Feb 18 09:37:27 you just need to install the cryptsetup packages, but it would be nice if they enabled more crypto modules in the kernel Feb 18 09:38:05 Robot101: goddam it .... that was my first time! Feb 18 09:38:28 lbt: :D come on you were asking for it Feb 18 09:39:10 :P Feb 18 09:43:26 stop pasting videos banned in germany Feb 18 09:44:53 :) Feb 18 09:45:22 Heh Feb 18 09:45:49 pupnik, yes if internet continue like that we will have open OS and closed web :) Feb 18 10:06:26 raster: you been busy on Bada 2.0 then ? Feb 18 10:15:26 hey guys i wonder, this new intel pre alpha tablet seems to use some special made qml components Feb 18 10:15:39 mm? Feb 18 10:15:42 can i use them too? Feb 18 10:15:51 when they're released, i hope so Feb 18 10:16:07 i got a mail that i can now deploy on appup Feb 18 10:16:48 but how much sense it makes to start special intel meego devel. without directly beeing able to adopt intel meego UX Feb 18 10:16:51 :) Feb 18 10:17:14 hehe Feb 18 10:17:22 good question, i don't know :) i'm waiting for source myself Feb 18 10:17:39 okidoki :D Feb 18 10:17:58 one day or another more shouldn't be the end of the world Feb 18 10:18:26 did we get further on a team obs section? Feb 18 10:19:13 wasn't able yet to go through all resources around, :( Feb 18 10:25:40 jbos: if we didn't want you to use the components at some point or another we wouldn't have made a design guide http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/article/download-tablet-ui-ux-guidelines-license-agreement ;-) Feb 18 10:27:02 nice :D Feb 18 10:27:21 is code already around / how to use them? Feb 18 10:27:33 or is this "to be released asap" Feb 18 10:28:03 Heh Feb 18 10:28:50 nedrichards: random comment, but mentioning Atom exclusively in a "MeeGo" document is a bit odd :) Feb 18 10:29:28 document looks great though, helps describe things Feb 18 10:30:21 jbos: I haven't looked at the tablet sdk actually, but i would imagine there is or will be stuff there. as for open sourcing stuff, you'd have to talk to the various meego boards - either way is not my call ;-) Feb 18 10:30:42 slaine: working on efl stuff. bada 2 - never heard of such a thing :) Feb 18 10:31:06 nedrichards, I'll just mention the document doesn't follow the meego style guide? Feb 18 10:31:10 heya jbos Feb 18 10:32:08 * slaine waves to nedrichards Feb 18 10:32:33 arfoll: which bits in particular? I can pass feedback on - I wrote some of the content but I didn't design or layout the doc. Feb 18 10:32:41 slaine: ohai Feb 18 10:33:01 nedrichards, see the color and the exclusion zones the logos are off : http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Style_Guide Feb 18 10:33:25 just for the record i think the restrictions are silly, but i'd like someone else to realise and change them Feb 18 10:34:57 arfoll: I shall pass on and get back to you if I hear anything Feb 18 10:35:43 nedrichards, cheers - theres a thread in the meego-community about it would be great if you could post any response in there Feb 18 10:36:03 arfoll: about the design guides as a whole or about this document? Feb 18 10:36:40 nedrichards this doc is great Feb 18 10:36:45 nedrichards, about the design (especially the logo)- the document seems very good and useful Feb 18 10:37:00 arfoll: ah yes, I know of that thread Feb 18 10:37:48 nedrichards, only thing is that for code there is nothing around yet. but well lets see :) Feb 18 10:47:07 Hi all Feb 18 10:47:30 Is there a feature list anywhere for the n900 version of meego? Feb 18 10:58:21 jbos, perhaps you can look at https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13678 Feb 18 11:07:15 question: i have azerty on 2 pc. netbook on meego, fedora on desktop. I use synegys. the problem is: when i type from netbook keyboard to fedora desktop it's like a qwerty keyborad... why ? Feb 18 11:08:15 how do you "type from netbook keyboard to fedora desktop"? Feb 18 11:08:51 with synergys and synergyc Feb 18 11:09:19 mouse and keyboard are shared, works just qwerty/azeerty issues Feb 18 11:12:20 I joined only to say that I am trying Meego Netbook 1.1 and it's AMAZING Feb 18 11:12:39 yay Feb 18 11:12:51 andre__, any idea ? Feb 18 11:13:11 really, I tried it on my N900 but the netbook version is really amazing! :O I love it Feb 18 11:13:27 sorry for spam! and thank you for your work :) Feb 18 11:13:43 it's not spam, it's complements Feb 18 11:14:59 can I build and install the meego interface on my distro> Feb 18 11:15:02 ? Feb 18 11:15:33 niala_: it could be the mapping Feb 18 11:15:49 bash: I believe you can but you have to de-brand it Feb 18 11:16:03 like CentOS or Iceweasel Feb 18 11:16:13 understand Feb 18 11:16:36 CosmoHill: I won't reboot xD Feb 18 11:16:49 CosmoHill, i suppose too.. Feb 18 11:17:08 niala_: if you plug a keyboard directly into them does it come out the way you want? Feb 18 11:17:27 yes sure Feb 18 11:18:46 I've noticed when i do a .ks file on fedora and i use them on meego. i have same issue ... ascii blablabla Feb 18 11:19:04 X-Fade: hey. Could I have access to Meego Core OBS? I'm on the Meego inputmethods team. Username: jonnor Feb 18 11:19:57 jonnor: x-fade and lbt only handles on build.pub.meego.com - file on bugs.meego.com -> community infrastructure -> build service -> build service accounts Feb 18 11:20:20 Stskeeps: ah, okey. Thanks! Feb 18 11:59:11 mikhas, Yes, well current firefox mobile version is pretty old (iirc) we got some hard reset on our team... and mozilla is not really interessted in getting on meego Feb 18 11:59:33 so we still get patches upstream Feb 18 11:59:40 but it all takes time Feb 18 11:59:57 (reviews on mozilla upstream are extremly exhausting) Feb 18 12:00:04 no fun at all... Feb 18 12:00:06 :D Feb 18 12:00:47 we got some regressions when we lately kick all meego touch dependencies out of firefox Feb 18 12:00:59 and those we concentrating on Feb 18 12:01:07 (rotation, language...) Feb 18 12:01:16 also on perfect openGL speed Feb 18 12:01:47 (we have around 30 fps flash video and nearly constant 60 fps on i.e. lemonde.fr Feb 18 12:02:05 which have some heavy useage of flash Feb 18 12:02:20 (of course on some handset device) Feb 18 12:02:39 also full weg-gl and webm support coming :D Feb 18 12:03:12 h264 was wanted by nokia, (of course) ... but mozilla does not like that idea to much ;) Feb 18 12:04:09 mikhas, for reporting bugs, we dont care about bugs.meego.com - we have basically 3 bugzillas to play with Feb 18 12:04:28 if you really want to get things done use bugzilla.mozilla.org Feb 18 12:04:30 :D Feb 18 12:09:22 lbt, any ideas on https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=tint2&project=home%3Aarfoll%3Autils&repository=meego_1.1_core Feb 18 12:13:29 arfoll: no, sorry. I don't do enough actual building these days. X-Fade ? Feb 18 12:14:12 "error: Package already exists: %package debuginfo " is the error in case anyone knows Feb 18 12:14:27 1.1 problem Feb 18 12:14:49 i think it's somethign to do with the %install macro Feb 18 12:15:20 Stskeeps, what do you mean? I could try see if it builds against current Feb 18 12:15:31 there was a macros issue in 1.1, i think Feb 18 12:17:38 Alrighty, I'm booting into meego. from the mmc card, and It looks fantastic! Feb 18 12:17:56 The instructions here http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/Dual_Boot seem to be a little out of date though Feb 18 12:18:09 jophish_, your IP is a joke right? Feb 18 12:18:17 arfoll: hmm? Feb 18 12:18:35 jophish_: which parts are missing? Feb 18 12:18:45 jophish_ : quassel@nat/microsoft/x-xmkaanfmqhyqjcwn Feb 18 12:19:07 arfoll: keep in mind there's also microsoft R&D people :) let's keep it civil here Feb 18 12:19:13 Stskeeps: the link to the meego image is no longer functional Feb 18 12:19:16 jophish_: ah Feb 18 12:19:21 * Stskeeps looks Feb 18 12:19:25 oh whoops, forgot I'm at work Feb 18 12:19:31 * arfoll smiles Feb 18 12:19:35 I am using the image from here: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.1.90.3.20110215.10/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/ Feb 18 12:19:51 jophish_: are you in redmond? Feb 18 12:19:53 Stskeeps, lbt, removing the debuginfo flag from the build fixed it :-) Feb 18 12:20:07 CosmoHill: nah, I'm at Lionhead studios in the UK Feb 18 12:20:13 sweet Feb 18 12:20:33 I was gonna ask if you knew my friends who work at MS but you're in the wrong country Feb 18 12:22:16 CosmoHill: It's a bit early in the morning in Redmond :) Feb 18 12:22:32 I like this guy already Feb 18 12:22:59 jophish_: Lionhead ? Feb 18 12:23:19 A First party game studio Feb 18 12:23:39 jophish_: ok, odd, the tablets-dev url? Feb 18 12:24:15 Stskeeps: That's right Feb 18 12:24:22 jophish_: ah - thinking about the future now eh ? :D Feb 18 12:24:24 jophish_: odd, worked for me Feb 18 12:24:52 How strange.. I'll try again Feb 18 12:26:46 hmm, I can't seem to access any of the files there Feb 18 12:26:55 maybe i should recheck that Feb 18 12:27:12 Stskeeps: I can grab images from here: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/ Feb 18 12:27:21 Stskeeps: you've seen the recent repo reorg ? Feb 18 12:27:21 meego handset is really strange Feb 18 12:27:25 lbt: yes Feb 18 12:27:26 i didn't understand the ui Feb 18 12:28:29 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.90/1.1.90.3.20110215.10/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/ << it s the last release isn't it ? Feb 18 12:28:47 khertan: me neither Feb 18 12:28:59 khertan: excellent, that's the one I'm using at the moment Feb 18 12:29:03 khertan: but it is getting there, hopefully the pinretrail UX components would help, it'd be great with them Feb 18 12:29:59 jophish_, hum ... but settings isn't working Feb 18 12:30:16 how to setup wifi to be able to ssh on it Feb 18 12:30:16 khertan: qa-reports.meego.com will tell you that too Feb 18 12:30:30 Stskeeps, oh thx for the link Stskeeps Feb 18 12:30:40 khertan: usb networking should work Feb 18 12:30:44 exactly what i was looking for Feb 18 12:37:47 khertan: my hunch is the tethering works and is setup with madde ip's Feb 18 12:37:55 khertan: so just set up the ubuntu side and your set to go Feb 18 12:38:20 Is there a stable n900 build, or is it all considered unstable at the moment? Feb 18 12:38:37 jophish_: pretty much .. the tablets-dev one is .. ok, but not very fancy Feb 18 12:39:53 Stskeeps: the one from 26 October? Feb 18 12:40:27 yeah Feb 18 12:40:36 we are in 6 month development cycles so Feb 18 12:42:20 in cmake how do you use the enable options? is it just --enable-option ? Feb 18 12:43:13 hi all, can I install meego into the root of my N900? Feb 18 12:43:20 Ok, thanks, I think I'll use the image from october, the latest seems to be a little on the rough side. Unless there is a "best of both worlds" option. Feb 18 12:50:01 is meego fully opensource? (compared to the n700, which imo contained proprietary sw components) Feb 18 12:50:48 i believe MeeGo itself is fully opensource, but some drivers used in actual phones are closed Feb 18 12:50:56 but don't quote me on that Feb 18 12:51:46 i once saw a component map for n700 which had all licenses collected. it would be very helpful with meego too. Feb 18 12:52:06 Tuju: meego.com is a open platform, the platform doesn't rely on closed binaries, but the hardware adaptations may Feb 18 12:52:58 ack. I think a good meter for openess is that can you install own version of OS into system - like in PC you can. Feb 18 12:53:57 i never understood the logic behind it - if you get the money from hardware, does it matter what it runs? Feb 18 12:54:08 Tuju: openess of hardware you mean? Feb 18 12:54:40 lindi-: yes. Feb 18 12:54:57 it's not all about openness you know Feb 18 12:55:13 PC BIOS is a blessing and a curse Feb 18 12:55:17 for lot of developers it is. Feb 18 12:55:23 Tuju: I think the catch is exactly that most vendors don't get the money from the hardware alone Feb 18 12:56:09 lindi-: that would be the only explanation. Then again, me or anyone who i know, don't pay anything else than hardware and what comes along with it. Feb 18 12:56:13 lindi-, Tuju, Indeed .. it would be irresponsible to shareholders if a public company didn't try to exploit every possible niche for profit. Feb 18 12:56:21 the bios is old and annoying to use, but just look at the state of the arm kernel Feb 18 12:56:45 it's also about liability issues Feb 18 12:56:57 Tuju: you might want to think that but your money will be used to cover all sorts of other costs Feb 18 12:56:59 tvainio, good point. Feb 18 12:57:36 completely open access to everything makes it possible for example to bypass all volume limitations --> Somebody damages their ears with the device. --> They blame the HW vendor Feb 18 12:57:37 my point is, that in this market situation, your options to be picky are limited, that train has gone allready. We should put something new on the table - like complete openess that would attract both devs and consumers. Feb 18 12:58:15 tvainio: that has already happened with third party batteries and it has not driven the brand owners to bankrupt. Feb 18 12:59:04 meego is completely open Feb 18 12:59:07 ear damage vs exploding battery is bit different scale and the worse has already been proven being irrelevant. Feb 18 12:59:15 meego isn't a hardware project Feb 18 12:59:47 it's up to the vendors to provide hardware support Feb 18 12:59:54 ali1234: correct, but i've seen numerous requests for info that where you can run it. it cannot become anything successfull alone either. Feb 18 13:00:43 which just goes to show that complete openness doesn't really attract any significant number of people Feb 18 13:00:51 what you actually need is quality software Feb 18 13:01:25 CosmoHill: you've seen how a) keen b) well vendors integrate their hardware with operating systems. HP with proliant is a good example of such which is just non acceptable. Feb 18 13:02:58 ali1234: bugger me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSSE3 Feb 18 13:03:10 um, no thanks? Feb 18 13:03:26 I mean instead of doing research I could have just copied that page Feb 18 13:03:28 and yes, that is where i got information about nano chip from? Feb 18 13:05:08 anyone in here running MeeGo on a Xeon processor? Feb 18 13:05:08 but apparently there is no such license map for Meego yet? Feb 18 13:05:43 Tuju: it's pretty much 99% open source and 1% artwork packages Feb 18 13:06:23 it's as open as RHEL and you don't hear anyone whinging about that Feb 18 13:06:25 Stskeeps: ah, then i bit misunderstood earlier comments. Feb 18 13:06:44 and apparently its radically more open than n700 was? Feb 18 13:07:05 Tuju: difference is that meego is a platform and not a end-user product Feb 18 13:07:29 it would be fair to say it is radically more open than maemo was Feb 18 13:07:52 but maemo was based on debian Feb 18 13:07:58 and debian is open Feb 18 13:10:19 is the user interface part then vendor provided and closed? I mean all GUI stuff? Feb 18 13:10:34 probably, yes Feb 18 13:10:51 it will be like htc sense vs vanilla android osp Feb 18 13:11:42 I've been talking about this with quite many opensource people and nobody seems to really know these details. Feb 18 13:12:56 i don't know anything for sure, i'm just a guy, this is just my opinion Feb 18 13:13:08 Tuju: they dont know because it all depends on a final product coming out Feb 18 13:13:15 exactly Feb 18 13:13:20 ans THAT product will define what IT ships with Feb 18 13:13:30 it may ship with a custom UI all open source Feb 18 13:13:33 or it may be closed Feb 18 13:13:45 anything that the vendor wrote Feb 18 13:13:50