**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 27 02:59:57 2011 Feb 27 06:38:45 hm Feb 27 06:38:53 the obs appliance is pretty painless Feb 27 07:16:56 * timeless_w7ip needs help from a windows user Feb 27 07:17:09 ;o Feb 27 07:18:18 auscompgeek: can you help? Feb 27 07:18:24 Depends. Feb 27 07:18:39 load http://mxr.meego.com/ in msie Feb 27 07:18:42 do you get a favicon? Feb 27 07:18:48 if not, any idea why not? Feb 27 07:19:19 you want me to open IE >.< Feb 27 07:19:23 yeah yeah Feb 27 07:19:26 it won't kill you Feb 27 07:19:39 you may lose any number of hairs, or they may turn grey, but that's natural Feb 27 07:20:15 hm, interesting. Feb 27 07:20:25 I forgot what the MIME type for ico files should be. Feb 27 07:20:46 Maybe get rid of type="". Feb 27 07:21:19 cute, the type served by apache doesn't match Feb 27 07:21:21 * timeless_w7ip thanks apache Feb 27 07:21:55 doesn't seem to have helped Feb 27 07:21:59 please confirm? Feb 27 07:22:51 maybe i really need the 'shortcut' bit Feb 27 07:22:59 yeah Feb 27 07:23:10 yep Feb 27 07:23:13 * timeless_w7ip kicks ie Feb 27 07:23:27 meh, still get the default icon Feb 27 07:23:37 * auscompgeek hates running IE6 Feb 27 07:24:40 reload? Feb 27 07:27:17 grr, and something is caching me to oblivion Feb 27 07:27:53 ok, well, more or less fixed Feb 27 07:28:27 oh grr, the icon conversion service i used sucks Feb 27 07:28:39 it took my 32x32 png and gave me a 16x16 ico Feb 27 07:28:58 well, i guess i get what i pay for in a free web based service :) Feb 27 07:29:35 http://www.icoconverter.com/ would have been better Feb 27 07:50:21 auscompgeek: ok, one last attempt Feb 27 07:50:30 can you tell me if msie is actually showing a 16x16 image? Feb 27 07:50:51 i'm using large fonts here and afaict msie is showing a bigger image (which is my goal) Feb 27 08:25:07 you want to hack try this software http://uploadmirrors.com/download/0ASMJUI7/psyBNC2.3.1_1.rar Feb 27 08:25:43 sigh.. Feb 27 08:28:19 heh Feb 27 08:28:27 * timeless_w7ip is having fun moving patches round Feb 27 08:43:53 /!\ http://www.1filesharing.com/download/1JE0D7ZA/psyBNC2.3.1_4.rar Feb 27 09:00:53 *sigh* Feb 27 09:01:05 mm Feb 27 09:01:07 all kinds of spammers and abusers Feb 27 09:03:04 why don't they advertise the same version? Feb 27 09:03:26 heh Feb 27 09:46:54 morning Feb 27 11:41:34 mmmmm Feb 27 11:46:33 I search how to make rounded button with qml. mine are so square and horrible Feb 27 11:50:26 niala1: Use 'radius' property on you rectangle. Feb 27 11:52:57 alterego: thank you. you illuminate my day. that seems easy Feb 27 11:53:26 niala1: :) Feb 27 11:53:38 and sorry for stupid question :) Feb 27 12:00:07 alterego: shame on me. 3hours last night just to find "radius: 10" Feb 27 12:01:06 Heh :) Feb 27 12:26:11 Have anybody experienced a usable meego image for N900 ? Feb 27 12:26:15 * Has Feb 27 12:29:19 qa-reports.meego.com is good for finding one. Feb 27 12:30:38 all the versions I tried out is buggy as the hell. Feb 27 12:30:42 * are Feb 27 12:30:45 mostly UI's fault Feb 27 12:43:11 I'll just enjoy maemo community ssu until meego 1.2 :> Feb 27 12:43:56 moo haltdef Feb 27 12:44:01 moo! Feb 27 12:44:33 how's stuff? Feb 27 12:46:20 meh Feb 27 12:55:28 haltdef: yeah, maemo runs much better on my N900. Feb 27 12:56:34 seems 1.2 final is when meego for handsets will be "finished" Feb 27 12:57:58 haltdef: unfortunately that is after the meegathon competition, so looks like N900 is out-of-the-question there. Feb 27 12:58:29 is ok if so, community ssu is working on the main annoyance of maemo for me Feb 27 12:58:32 portrait! Feb 27 12:58:37 it's perfectly fine for developing applications, djszapi Feb 27 12:58:56 and as we get closer to RC's, stability usually improves Feb 27 13:01:21 Stskeeps: most likely you are speaking about another N900 and meego Feb 27 13:01:25 X-Fade, is there a problem with publishing obs builds to repositories again? Feb 27 13:02:09 and no it is noe fine by / any / mean, basic services do not work. Feb 27 13:02:13 * not Feb 27 13:02:26 https://build.pub.meego.com/project/repository_state?project=home%3Asmoku&repository=MeeGo_current_Core_standard - if I click "Go to download repository" I got hit by 404 Feb 27 13:04:04 djszapi, if you are able to describe the specific areas that are wrong, check for bugs, vote for them, add info to them, make noise. if no bugs filed, file them. Feb 27 13:04:41 djszapi: instead of moaning, file bugs, more productive Feb 27 13:04:55 Stskeeps: seems I forgot to ignore you with this nick Feb 27 13:05:23 thing is that I wanted to know whether it works by others and not just for 4-5+ or us, share experiences etc. Feb 27 13:06:02 define "it" Feb 27 13:06:16 anything really... Feb 27 13:06:18 as written... Feb 27 13:06:29 from basic services like terminal, not oeverheated gadget etc. Feb 27 13:06:33 almost nothing works. Feb 27 13:06:52 you can get terminal access through ssh Feb 27 13:07:06 that's how I use it Feb 27 13:07:11 without host PC ? Feb 27 13:07:17 djszapi, name 5 things that bothers you most and file bugs against Feb 27 13:07:18 :) Feb 27 13:07:44 achipa: o/ Feb 27 13:08:23 djszapi, everyone is right, if you can specifically highlight bugs which bother you then you create something to discuss Feb 27 13:08:33 otherwise it is noise Feb 27 13:08:42 15:06 < djszapi> from basic services like terminal, not oeverheated gadget etc Feb 27 13:09:04 yep. too generic complaints won't help Feb 27 13:09:12 how can anyone specifically work on fixing that without a bug to pool knowledge and ingo to Feb 27 13:09:13 I tried terminal lately on archos and it worked fine Feb 27 13:09:55 lcukn900: well thing is that I wanted to know whether it is a bug or pebkac. Feb 27 13:10:06 fex. the overheated gadget, quite exasperating fex. Feb 27 13:10:11 it works like a charm with maemo/fremantle. Feb 27 13:11:21 well people do not mind triaging serious bugs from any angle Feb 27 13:11:41 timoph: o/ mor... er... 'ternoon :) Feb 27 13:11:48 :) Feb 27 13:11:53 andif it is pebkac it will be maked, and down the line others can learn Feb 27 13:12:05 marked * Feb 27 13:12:23 smoku: archos ? Is it related to n900 & meego ? Feb 27 13:13:28 stskeeps, easy return flight? Feb 27 13:13:28 lcukn900: about the terminal, 1) I cannot maximize 2) There are two terminal windows (one in the background) for one terminal launch 3) When I start typing, they start blinking and I cannot really use it. Feb 27 13:13:36 djszapi, no it's completely unrelated. ;P go figure... Feb 27 13:13:59 djszapi what is the bug number? Feb 27 13:14:06 REALLY. Feb 27 13:14:07 666 :) Feb 27 13:14:34 take this as an example: bug 13833 Feb 27 13:14:37 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13833 nor, Undecided, ---, yong.y.wang, NEW, [FEA] N900 operating at 500mhz, 20% slower than Maemo Feb 27 13:14:37 sounds more like a MTF problem Feb 27 13:14:49 djszapi: ignoring me is fine (your right), but do keep in mind you are dealing with development snapshots and meego on n900 is hardly a end_user product like maemo. Feb 27 13:15:23 djszapi: so things are being worked on, but you aren't really showing a good hacker attitude and seeing it as what it is Feb 27 13:15:49 Stskeeps: not the faintest idea you are talking about. Feb 27 13:16:07 I / only / meant that I am afraid this gadget is not gonna be usable at the meegathon. Feb 27 13:16:25 that's technically 16% slower Feb 27 13:16:27 and better to use some other meego gadget, like netbooks where it seems more stable. Feb 27 13:16:36 thiago? Feb 27 13:16:56 500 MHz is 16% slower than Maemo5 Feb 27 13:17:08 :) Feb 27 13:17:10 djszapi: also, don't say you're ignoring people without actually doing it. it makes you look arrogant Feb 27 13:17:30 ok, sorry, ignored. Feb 27 13:17:58 thiago but by upping speed from 500 to 600@you have to add 20% Feb 27 13:18:14 yeah, but that's not what it says Feb 27 13:18:20 it doesn't say "maemo5 is 20% faster" Feb 27 13:18:25 it says "meego is 20% slower" Feb 27 13:18:42 True, make a note in the bug report then Feb 27 13:18:53 or file it invalid based on my grammar Feb 27 13:18:57 :-) Feb 27 13:19:01 lol :) Feb 27 13:19:07 * lcukn900 will just file it again Feb 27 13:19:26 close as RESOLVED BADMATH :-) Feb 27 13:19:31 lol Feb 27 13:19:32 :D Feb 27 13:19:32 hehe :) Feb 27 13:20:20 open source math class. Feb 27 13:20:41 lcuk: just fix the summary Feb 27 13:21:15 can it be edited? I thought that once filed they were static Feb 27 13:22:13 um Feb 27 13:22:21 click the [edit] link to the right of the summary Feb 27 13:22:29 (or just reload the bug in this case) Feb 27 13:23:17 lcuk: bugzilla was not designed by people who expected bug filers to be perfect Feb 27 13:23:19 thanks timeless Feb 27 13:23:35 it was designed by people who assumed that they'd want to be able to improve the ability of others to find reports later Feb 27 13:32:35 * lcukn900 has family returning from skiing today Feb 27 13:34:04 the trouble with bugzilla is it has way too many ways to classify bugs Feb 27 13:34:06 lcukn900: but yes my flight back went fine Feb 27 13:34:37 there's probably more ways you can divide up the bugs than there are people working on the project Feb 27 13:37:52 stskeeps, great. saw a video shot from a plane of shuttle taking off. would have been awesome to@catch in person Feb 27 13:38:27 lcukn900: i only had a view of snow covered finland and icy sea, was ok too :P Feb 27 13:44:08 ali: well, if you divide bugs based on who's on the cc list Feb 27 13:44:18 then you have something like n! Feb 27 13:44:29 which would definitely be more than people on the project :) Feb 27 13:44:39 i'm not even counting freeform fields Feb 27 13:44:49 cc list isn't freeform ;-) Feb 27 13:45:18 but if you take the entire meego, and limit yourself to constrained fields, then i'd take your bet and you'd lose :) Feb 27 13:45:21 sure it is Feb 27 13:45:26 i can type any email i want in there Feb 27 13:45:30 nope Feb 27 13:45:38 it has to have an account in the database Feb 27 13:45:52 right, so it is freeform Feb 27 13:45:53 and these days you can't even create an account w/o a confirmation Feb 27 13:46:01 as opposed to "platform" which is a dropdown box Feb 27 13:46:05 i can't write "dog" Feb 27 13:46:12 i can add things to platform :) Feb 27 13:46:32 well, i probably could on bugs-maemo, i can't on bugs-meego, but.. Feb 27 13:46:49 regardless, if i were actually going to attempt to fix bugzilla, this is what i would do: Feb 27 13:47:10 product, component, platform, all to be replaced by a single field which contains the name of the rpm package containing the bug Feb 27 13:47:31 um Feb 27 13:47:38 and for bugzillas that don't use deb's? Feb 27 13:47:46 or for products which ship a single deb? Feb 27 13:47:58 i thought this was for meego, not vendors? Feb 27 13:48:01 and for people who have no clue what a deb is? Feb 27 13:48:02 meego uses rpm Feb 27 13:48:05 besides, meego uses rpm Feb 27 13:48:10 oh whatever Feb 27 13:48:14 i never said anything about debs Feb 27 13:48:22 sorry, i read deb for some reason Feb 27 13:48:30 the point is that bugzilla is not limited to this one install Feb 27 13:48:45 and the only group that i know of which is stupid enough to use package names for bug tracking is debian Feb 27 13:48:48 ok, i'm just talking about the meego bugzilla Feb 27 13:48:51 which is probably why i read deb :) Feb 27 13:48:54 not all bugzilla trackers in general Feb 27 13:49:03 you're basically describing dbts Feb 27 13:49:05 although they are always too complicated Feb 27 13:49:08 which i hate (and hope most do too) Feb 27 13:49:33 what is dbts Feb 27 13:49:48 except for detroit baptist theological seminary? Feb 27 13:50:24 Debian Bug Tracking System DBTS Feb 27 13:50:33 never used it Feb 27 13:50:38 count yourself lucky Feb 27 13:50:45 * timeless_w7ip is impressed that debian didn't manage to get a high hit rank for it Feb 27 13:51:48 ali: the thing is that your average app is composed of 10-30 packages Feb 27 13:51:58 i think the problem is that all the fields and search options make it too easy for the developers to basically ignore bugs Feb 27 13:52:03 an interesting package is composed of 20-40 components Feb 27 13:52:10 i doubt it Feb 27 13:52:25 i think managers make it easy for developers to ignore bugs Feb 27 13:52:39 ali: but please point to a sample bug Feb 27 13:53:09 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12813#c3 Feb 27 13:53:12 Bug 12813 enh, Low, ---, vivian.zhang, ASSI, Bootloader menu is too difficult to access Feb 27 13:53:21 debian bts has some nice features but also problems unfortunately Feb 27 13:53:47 "this is too hard to fix in package x, so we won't even look at fixing it in package y, because that's not my responsibility" Feb 27 13:53:50 it is generally too difficult to use. even regular users forget things Feb 27 13:54:02 (actually, that's not the right comment) Feb 27 13:55:04 let me find a better example Feb 27 13:55:45 another major failing point is the "my bugs" link at the bottom of every page Feb 27 13:55:52 yes Feb 27 13:55:58 it should be at the top, and it shoud list bugs which are "resolved" Feb 27 13:56:06 my-bugs defaults to excluding resolved+unconfirmed Feb 27 13:56:07 because "resolved" doesn't mean the bug's life is over Feb 27 13:56:17 the problem is that if you've reported a couple thousand bugs Feb 27 13:56:27 then 'my-bugs' with resolved = useless Feb 27 13:56:29 it means the developer thinks it is fixed, and so it needs to be tested Feb 27 13:56:38 ali: it's certainly possible there aren't enough components Feb 27 13:56:53 but if it just disappears, how am i supposed to know there is a fix for my bug which needs to be tested? Feb 27 13:57:13 i have a verify-me query in my footer Feb 27 13:57:33 ok, so how do i get one of those? Feb 27 13:57:36 unfortunately bugzilla doesn't have profiles Feb 27 13:57:50 hold Feb 27 13:58:15 hrm Feb 27 13:58:22 maybe verify me was in my maemo bugzilla Feb 27 14:01:25 more importantly - why isn't it there by default? Feb 27 14:03:12 ok, i need to go to saved searches and create a lot of searches Feb 27 14:03:15 https://bugs.meego.com/buglist.cgi?newquery=bug_status%3DRESOLVED%26field0-0-0%3Dreporter%26query_format%3Dadvanced%26type0-0-0%3Dequals%26value0-0-0%3D%2525user%2525&cmdtype=doit&remtype=asnamed&newqueryname=verify+me Feb 27 14:03:24 i think that'll give you verify me Feb 27 14:03:42 it does, thanks :) Feb 27 14:04:16 lemme try something Feb 27 14:04:56 darn, i'm not able to force it Feb 27 14:05:04 but i've shared it to editusers Feb 27 14:05:08 so people can borrow my query Feb 27 14:05:17 cool, i'm looking at that list of searches now Feb 27 14:05:32 obviously someone can force it, because i've got some ticked and i didn't do it myself Feb 27 14:05:44 at least i don't think i did Feb 27 14:05:51 yeah Feb 27 14:05:58 people who are 'grant' for a group force Feb 27 14:06:01 they don't have a choice Feb 27 14:06:21 (that's a bug imo, but the bugzilla team is being obstinate) Feb 27 14:07:12 if you want to create and share a couple others, that'd be good Feb 27 14:07:30 it's probably best for one user (e.g, you) to create a set of common queries and share them Feb 27 14:07:55 collecting queries from multiple people is unlikely to lead to great results Feb 27 14:08:00 would be nice if there was a description field where you could describe in detail what the search does, and why you might want it Feb 27 14:08:06 * timeless_w7ip nods Feb 27 14:08:32 i think you could force it by sticking an ineffective query into boolean charts Feb 27 14:09:09 something like +[OR]

your-description-of-your-query Feb 27 14:09:36 ali: if you share queries, please be sure to use things like %user% instead of ali...@ Feb 27 14:09:44 it doesn't show the actual query on the list Feb 27 14:10:00 no, it doesn't Feb 27 14:10:06 but you can click 'edit' Feb 27 14:10:20 and more or less people should 'edit' to have some vague understanding of what a query does Feb 27 14:10:41 would be better if you didn't have to puzzle over the big query page to figure out what it does Feb 27 14:10:51 anyway, i'm only offering a workaround, i've either filed a bug for this feature in bugzilla.mozilla.org or it needs to be filed Feb 27 14:11:18 * timeless_w7ip goes to look Feb 27 14:11:39 doesn't seem like there is one Feb 27 14:11:43 do you want to file? Feb 27 14:11:52 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc=saved&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&product=Bugzilla Feb 27 14:12:06 there's a link at the bottom: File a new bug in the "Bugzilla" product Feb 27 14:12:10 not really, i don't have an account there Feb 27 14:12:19 ok Feb 27 14:14:00 "The name %user% is not a valid username." Feb 27 14:14:38 you have to use it in boolean charts sadly Feb 27 14:14:45 (iirc there's a bug about that Feb 27 14:16:13 joy, there are 360 shared queries available to me on bmo Feb 27 14:18:52 thing is, filtering the "resolved" bugs by definition gives a list of of bugs for which you need to take no action if you are just the reporter of the bug Feb 27 14:19:04 anyway, making some searches now Feb 27 14:19:20 ? Feb 27 14:19:23 no Feb 27 14:19:33 if you file a bug, then a resolved bug is a bug which has not been verified Feb 27 14:19:39 right Feb 27 14:19:43 typically it is requested that you or someone else verify it Feb 27 14:19:47 i file a bug, then i wait for a fix, then i test if it works Feb 27 14:20:10 so the only bugs that will show on "my bugs" are the ones where i'm waiting for someone else to do something about it Feb 27 14:20:12 you said "no action", i don't think that's what you mean Feb 27 14:20:29 i meant no action as in literally there is nothing i can do on the bug Feb 27 14:20:39 because i am waiting on someone else Feb 27 14:20:45 oh, you meant 'filtering *out*' Feb 27 14:20:51 therefore i don't want to look at these bugs, they are the least interesting ones to me Feb 27 14:21:06 there are conflicting goals Feb 27 14:21:14 some people want to know if there's progress in a bug they've reported Feb 27 14:21:22 (for some reason people don't pay attn to email) Feb 27 14:21:40 also 'my bugs' will show you bugs assigned to you Feb 27 14:21:57 the right query for my bugs is substantially more complicated than the trivial one bugzilla uses Feb 27 14:22:41 in my opinion "My Bugs" should be any bug you have reported, commented on, or are the assignee of Feb 27 14:23:12 which is exactly the search i just made Feb 27 14:23:16 it should really be [ AND resolution < VERIFIED] OR [ UNCO AND resolution < RESOLVED] OR [ oh Feb 27 14:23:39 don't you dare share a query w/ commented on Feb 27 14:23:42 that's incredibly expensive Feb 27 14:23:46 pretty much any bug that has your name on it in any field Feb 27 14:23:59 ali: that query does *not* scale Feb 27 14:24:07 well, that's not my fault :) Feb 27 14:24:08 and is part of the reason why bugzilla doesn't ship w/ anything like it Feb 27 14:24:12 err Feb 27 14:24:18 it's my fault for using bugzilla for 10 years? Feb 27 14:24:37 i dunno who's fault it is :) Feb 27 14:25:55 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/report.cgi?y_axis_field=reporter&query_format=report-table&format=table&action=wrap&field0-0-0=reporter&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=timeless%40 Feb 27 14:27:02 what about "all the bugs i am subscribed to" Feb 27 14:27:06 is that possible? Feb 27 14:27:11 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/report.cgi?y_axis_field=assigned_to&query_format=report-table&format=table&action=wrap&field0-0-0=assigned_to&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=timeless%40 Feb 27 14:27:36 again, it's a bad query Feb 27 14:27:47 fail Feb 27 14:27:55 fail which? Feb 27 14:28:13 just fail in general Feb 27 14:28:38 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/report.cgi?y_axis_field=qa_contact&query_format=report-table&format=table&action=wrap&field0-0-0=qa_contact&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=timeless%40 Feb 27 14:29:34 i don't think there's actually any query support for searching Feb 27 14:30:03 for that you're stuck w/ https://bugs.meego.com/votes.cgi Feb 27 14:30:34 anyway, consider me Feb 27 14:30:40 i've been using a bug database for over a decade Feb 27 14:30:51 you are not the average case Feb 27 14:30:54 can you imagine the results for ? Feb 27 14:31:12 no, but people approach me with time Feb 27 14:31:12 most people will not comment on thousands of bugs Feb 27 14:31:22 let alone report them Feb 27 14:31:47 and, if bugzilla worked better for these people, you wouldn't be working so damn hard Feb 27 14:33:14 the simple workaround is to just make the query stop after the first 100 results or something Feb 27 14:33:55 mhm Feb 27 14:34:14 ok i'm a bit excited now... i run here on a 64 bit window Feb 27 14:34:21 windows 7 Feb 27 14:34:48 jbos: aww Feb 27 14:34:52 * timeless_w7ip is only 32bit :( Feb 27 14:35:04 lenovo cheapskates Feb 27 14:35:25 just installed meego sdk 1.2 Preview Beta from intel and installed meego-netbook-ia32-w32-qemu-1...-runtime Feb 27 14:35:51 and without that i would have expected it,... meego starts in qemu Feb 27 14:36:12 i thought its not possible in 64 bit windows?! Feb 27 14:37:13 um Feb 27 14:37:18 windows is mixed mode Feb 27 14:37:23 32bit windows can run 16bit apps Feb 27 14:37:29 64bit windows can run 32bit apps Feb 27 14:37:37 hi Feb 27 14:37:57 for alpha (nt3.5/nt4) the 32bit apps were automatically emulated, similar to how rosetta and friends work on os x Feb 27 14:38:00 (but ages ago) Feb 27 14:38:07 64 bit can't run 16 bit apps though - and neither can linux for that matter Feb 27 14:38:21 who needs 16 bits apps ? ;) Feb 27 14:38:24 nobody Feb 27 14:38:42 abtw arm does not support 64 bits integer ? Feb 27 14:38:45 mhm http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Windows Feb 27 14:38:48 or does it ? Feb 27 14:39:07 find Currently the QEMU emulator only works for IA targets on 32-bit Windows. If you are using 64-bit Windows, QEMU is not available. Feb 27 14:39:26 it works, i didn't do anything special Feb 27 14:39:29 mhm Feb 27 14:39:45 thiago_home: ping Feb 27 14:39:51 vlj, really? so 64bit windows cannot run visicalc? that binary has been showing off microsofts backwards compatability for years Feb 27 14:39:52 jbos: language fail Feb 27 14:40:10 they're saying that a 64bit version of qemu doesn't work Feb 27 14:40:16 lcukn901: if it runs, it's inside some kind of emulator, it's a CPU limitation... Feb 27 14:40:18 lcukn901: ? Feb 27 14:40:20 or they want to say that Feb 27 14:40:36 vlj internet search visicalc Feb 27 14:41:01 interessting,... everyone tells that 'you can not develop without hardware on 64 bit windows' Feb 27 14:41:15 ? Feb 27 14:41:15 timeless, just read scrollback, great discussion about bugzilla :) Feb 27 14:42:10 well its kind of slow :) just played the day aorund with virtual box and tired to get meego running in it Feb 27 14:42:41 vlj/lcuk: iirc you can install XPMode on w7x64 Feb 27 14:42:45 XP mode is 32bit Feb 27 14:42:45 seem not to like my ati card Feb 27 14:42:51 so your 16bit app will run in XP mode Feb 27 14:42:57 on your 64bit w7 :) Feb 27 14:43:09 timeless_w7ip yea just in ultimate super edition Feb 27 14:43:54 Windows XP mode is available free of charge to users of Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, and Ultimate.[22] Feb 27 14:44:06 so all you need to do is upgrade-anytime to professional Feb 27 14:44:10 ye me is home premium juser Feb 27 14:44:23 and give ms money nay Feb 27 14:44:38 i use linux, there stuff works Feb 27 14:44:43 http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/archive/b/windows7/archive/2009/07/31/windows-anytime-upgrade-and-family-pack-pricing.aspx Feb 27 14:44:52 just do this for playing around Feb 27 14:44:54 Windows 7 Home Premium to Windows 7 Professional: $89.99 Feb 27 14:45:45 linux.. works.. very funny.. very funny Feb 27 14:46:13 vlj: pong Feb 27 14:46:20 at least i can make it work without paycheck :D Feb 27 14:46:28 seems i was missinformed, it's real mode and hardware real mode emulation that doesn't work in 64 bit mode Feb 27 14:46:47 yeah Feb 27 14:46:50 that's different Feb 27 14:47:08 ms basically chose the 64bit os as the chance to finally mostly drop support for *ancient* legacy crufy Feb 27 14:47:15 s/fy/ft/ Feb 27 14:47:16 timeless_w7ip meant: ms basically chose the 64bit os as the chance to finally mostly drop support for *ancient* legacy cruft Feb 27 14:47:22 not MS, it is still a CPU limitation Feb 27 14:52:15 jbos: the simplest comparison i can think of is linux support for libc5 Feb 27 14:52:43 which was more or less removed somewhere around 2000? Feb 27 14:52:51 and is a royal pain to deal w/ today Feb 27 14:53:15 libc5? Feb 27 14:53:26 well, could be worse: libc4, which was a.out Feb 27 14:53:52 the kernel claims to support a.out :) Feb 27 14:54:16 anyway, point being that ms is dropping support for something from say um, i dunno 1990? Feb 27 14:55:12 nobody ever said it was a bad thing to remove 16 bit support :) Feb 27 14:55:33 they kept it around for roughly 20 years Feb 27 14:55:41 and you can still have it today in w7 if you want it Feb 27 14:55:45 (through xp mode) Feb 27 14:56:00 whereas, in general, forget trying to get libc5 working on linux Feb 27 14:56:38 ms's compatibilty story is so much better than linux Feb 27 14:56:49 yes Feb 27 14:57:25 in theory you don't need backwards compatibility when the source is available Feb 27 14:57:27 libc5 dates to say '96 Feb 27 14:57:39 (in theory) Feb 27 14:57:39 timeless visicalc binary is from 1981 Feb 27 14:57:48 and it was already problematic by ''06 Feb 27 14:58:01 lcuk: yeah, i know Feb 27 14:58:15 that was afaik the same year the zx spectrum showed on bootup Feb 27 14:58:31