**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 10 02:59:57 2011 Mar 10 05:07:22 wow Mar 10 05:07:26 serious spam on the meego forum Mar 10 05:11:38 anyone working on something along the lines of http://rtc-web.alvestrand.com/ in meego? Mar 10 05:38:31 morning Mar 10 05:39:47 hey all, I was brought to the moblin site by intel, and the meego site by moblin - looking for graphics drivers for the Intel 3150 - do you provide these outside of the distro, or only through the distro itself? Mar 10 05:47:47 3150, is that the one on the Atom N450? Mar 10 06:09:26 it's the one with the n%%) Mar 10 06:09:29 N550 * Mar 10 09:10:12 moorning, too Mar 10 09:10:26 moooooo Mar 10 09:22:44 RST38h: booja Mar 10 09:23:19 raster: yoohoo Mar 10 09:24:41 RST38h: mrlrmrlmrl Mar 10 09:29:26 urlurlurl seems to be more appropriate... Mar 10 09:58:57 hello all :) Mar 10 09:59:25 heya wazd, how are things? Mar 10 09:59:25 lo wazd Mar 10 09:59:43 wazd: not yet planning to extend OMWeather into other types of applets? Mar 10 10:02:35 RST38h: what did you mean other types of applets? Mar 10 10:06:35 RST38h: ask my master :D Mar 10 10:07:16 wazd: Yess, Igor! Mar 10 10:07:37 RST38h: but imo we can do it, but using different name Mar 10 10:07:59 vasvlad: Given how well omweather works, it may be worth to create a few other applets: CPU temperature, stocks, email counters, etc Mar 10 10:08:12 wazd: of course, they won't be about the weather any more Mar 10 10:44:20 Hi. Mar 10 10:44:40 hi Mar 10 10:45:18 I'd like to make a feature request. Mar 10 10:45:59 there's a good features process for this :) Mar 10 10:46:10 Really where? Mar 10 10:46:28 lbt, how can I access meego Mar 10 10:46:30 I've obviously come to the right place ;) Mar 10 10:46:32 obs? Mar 10 10:46:38 How can I access obs of meego? Mar 10 10:46:43 Stephen512: http://meego.com/developers/requirements Mar 10 10:47:06 Thanks. Mar 10 10:47:36 Alps: so... are you developing opensource apps for meego ? Mar 10 10:48:54 I'll be off then. Mar 10 10:49:21 Alps: Ok - ping me when you're back Mar 10 10:50:04 ok, is it just me - or did we just have someone wander by and miss a chance to engage user about a feature? Mar 10 10:50:22 I get stopped in the street by people who offer features and write every one down Mar 10 10:53:10 * lcuk2 wonders what he was going to say Mar 10 10:53:41 morning Stskeeps, lbt \o Mar 10 10:54:13 hey lcuk2 Mar 10 10:54:21 yes Mar 10 10:54:32 I'll try to customize the meego kernel. Mar 10 10:54:40 and build by myself Mar 10 10:54:47 Meanwhile: # Mar 10 10:54:47 # Mar 10 10:54:47 Nintendo can remotely brick your 3DS after flash Mar 10 10:54:49 Alps: OK Mar 10 10:54:59 Alps: what's your meego.com account ? Mar 10 10:55:08 alpsxing Mar 10 10:55:21 done Mar 10 10:55:32 thanks. Mar 10 10:56:07 MrPPS_: GMA3150 is supported by the standard xf86-video-intel driver (and KMS in the kernel). It is available in practically every distro, or you can get it from upstream (x.org) Mar 10 10:57:22 hi,lbt, i cannot login build.meego.com by alpsxing Mar 10 10:57:39 Alps: build.pub.meego.com Mar 10 10:58:49 * lbt raises priority of "MeeGo OBS overview page" in his todo Mar 10 11:00:13 thanks, stskeeps Mar 10 11:54:53 hello everyone Mar 10 11:55:08 ~seen everyone Mar 10 11:55:17 everyone <~Tom@CPE-121-216-246-148.lnse3.ken.bigpond.net.au> was last seen on IRC in channel #sc2mapster, 243d 22h 52m 42s ago, saying: 'we'd love to donate time maul'. Mar 10 11:55:32 hi Moystard \o Mar 10 11:55:51 I have a question for you guys :D Mar 10 11:56:33 I know that MeeGo 1.2 is in development. I would like to build an image from the sources and execute it (I am in reality interested by MeeGo IVI). Is it possible to do so? Mar 10 11:56:51 yes Mar 10 11:57:00 in fact, you should build from the binary packages Mar 10 11:57:04 repo.meego.com :) Mar 10 11:58:24 so the last version for now is the 1.1.90 Mar 10 11:59:01 right Mar 10 11:59:06 oh okay I don't even to build it as images are already available for each build... Mar 10 11:59:13 even have to * Mar 10 12:01:09 thank you, I'll run it to see the improvements and new features :) Mar 10 12:08:40 * aloisiojr #nfc-temp Mar 10 12:08:58 Hello Mar 10 12:09:45 Are there netbook .raw images available that I can chroot into? Mar 10 12:20:00 anyone from Ixonos , Helsinki in this channel ? Mar 10 12:21:49 chinmaya, what would they be doing here, there are many side channels around meego Mar 10 12:22:01 and not everyone is watching all of the channels Mar 10 12:22:40 chinmaya, why are you asking that? Mar 10 12:22:41 lcuk: bcoz they have meego developers , might be online in this channel Mar 10 12:23:02 chinmaya, yes, which area of meego are they working on? Mar 10 12:23:07 chinmaya, they have them also in tampere and oulu :D Mar 10 12:23:20 also in helsinki Mar 10 12:23:39 for instance, there are a record number people in #meego-arm right now, some of whom are not in this channel Mar 10 12:23:48 moving this conversation to privat Mar 10 12:24:06 okie Mar 10 12:25:23 morning Mar 10 12:28:04 \o araujo, thiago_helsinki Mar 10 12:28:30 :) Mar 10 12:56:19 lcuk: Regarding download.meego.com, the Intelians are saying "WORKSFORME" Mar 10 12:56:29 gabrbedd, yeah Mar 10 12:56:31 lcuk: So, maybe it's a bug. Mar 10 12:56:51 it does work for them because the repositories on netbook do not use that server Mar 10 12:56:59 lcuk: i don't remember, did we try `zypper clean --all` ? Mar 10 12:58:13 gabrbedd, I did a zypper clean, will boot now and try --all Mar 10 12:58:41 (I know netbook is ok, because I stepped through the actions I was going to do on N900 using my ideapad Mar 10 12:58:41 lcuk: Anyway, you'll need to give them more specifics on your setup in order to get it resolved. Mar 10 12:58:46 sure Mar 10 12:59:32 Well, I'm running Handset builds on the netbook... and I couldn't reproduce it, either. Mar 10 12:59:43 Were you just doing `zypper refresh` ? Mar 10 13:00:01 yeah, hold on meego just booting on my n900 Mar 10 13:00:13 I will get network working and confirm everything in a documented bug Mar 10 13:00:17 if reqd Mar 10 13:01:49 Well, if `zypper clean --all` fixes it... we're having to do that /way/ too often. Mar 10 13:02:01 * lcuk nods Mar 10 13:02:10 and this is from a clean flash Mar 10 13:02:16 I've been on the look-out for the next time something like this happens (on my machines) so that I can find the cause. Mar 10 13:02:17 so there should not be anything in there cached Mar 10 13:03:32 Well, it's possible that mic2 doesn't clean the cache after installing the image... Mar 10 13:03:46 And anaconda is doing some kind of simple copy/paste to install. Mar 10 13:04:48 * gabrbedd is getting in the shower. Mar 10 13:11:53 what should i add to suders to allow every user to run an specific command without password? Mar 10 13:14:56 lucian1, user ALL = NOPASSWD: /yourcommand * Mar 10 13:15:01 ouch luist ^ Mar 10 13:15:50 user means all users or i have to specify? Mar 10 13:16:22 luist, hm... maybe i was too quick.. lemme check this Mar 10 13:17:30 luist, yes it seems yes... or you can use group instead of user name Mar 10 13:17:49 kdez: how would it be with group? Mar 10 13:17:52 lucian1, %users ALL = NOPASSWD: /bin/somecommand * Mar 10 13:18:00 luist, ^ sorry lucian1 :-S Mar 10 13:18:01 kedz: oh that seems good.. thanks Mar 10 13:18:54 kedz: no worries ;) Mar 10 13:19:17 gabrbedd, http://pastebin.com/idF96xM4 Mar 10 13:20:21 That is the MeeGo on N900 Zypper refresh failure log ^ Mar 10 13:22:29 * gabrbedd forwarding pastebin to jukka Mar 10 13:26:00 * gabrbedd would CC lcuk on the e-mail if he had lcuk's addy. Mar 10 13:26:20 liquid@gmail.com around meego bugzilla Mar 10 13:26:30 I will file a bug with that log in it Mar 10 13:26:32 it is simpler Mar 10 13:27:43 ok. Let me know the bug # when you do. Mar 10 13:27:51 Meanwhile, I sent them the pastebin link. Mar 10 13:30:01 gabrbedd, jukka, bug 14337 Mar 10 13:30:03 <_MeeeGoBot_> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14337 nor, Undecided, ---, ulf.hofemeier, NEW, MeeGo on N900 Zypper refresh failure Mar 10 13:30:35 thanks. Mar 10 13:31:30 remove 127.0.0.1 from top if you have no active connection with connman Mar 10 13:31:33 and no, usb networking doesn't count Mar 10 13:32:05 just following instructions! Mar 10 13:32:06 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Tips_and_Tricks/N900_USB_Networking#Setting_up_default_route_and_DNS_settings Mar 10 13:33:00 now it doesn't Mar 10 13:33:01 :P Mar 10 13:33:33 Stskeeps, !!! Mar 10 13:33:39 but I can ping the hosts Mar 10 13:34:06 yes, but for some reason you hit the round-robin and 127.0.0.1 says "no, that host doesn't exist, nanana" Mar 10 13:34:09 :P Mar 10 13:34:44 well I have always been stuck with my software on its own machine Mar 10 13:34:50 * lcuk does not really mind so much Mar 10 13:34:58 lemme try removing the 127.0.0.1 and see if it works Mar 10 13:35:48 :O ooooooh Mar 10 13:35:54 Stskeeps, :D you genius! Mar 10 13:39:45 oh, that whole nameserver on localhost thing is still causing problems eh? Mar 10 13:42:38 fastest fix in the west, bug 14337 sorted. Mar 10 13:42:41 <_MeeeGoBot_> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14337 nor, Undecided, ---, ulf.hofemeier, RESO FIXED, MeeGo on N900 Zypper refresh failure Mar 10 13:43:40 this bug is really old Mar 10 13:45:17 you haven't actually fixed it, you've just worked around the problem Mar 10 13:45:45 ali1234, well reopen it and find a different way Mar 10 13:46:04 but since the instructions have been modified, others using usb ntworking on their n900 might have a tiny bit easier ride Mar 10 13:47:26 those instructions still make me lol Mar 10 13:47:35 talk about the most overcomplicated way to achieve what you want Mar 10 13:47:55 ali1234, yes Mar 10 13:48:05 but I cannot get my wifi working on n900 yet Mar 10 13:48:26 the configurator is not complex enough for me to enter dns and gateway and ip etc that I could find Mar 10 13:48:43 so why don't you use dhcp? Mar 10 13:48:43 ali1234: pretty much from the maemo.org usb networking page Mar 10 13:48:43 :P Mar 10 13:49:05 ali1234: lcuk doesn't believe in anything but adhoc and static ips ;) Mar 10 13:49:17 once again, this is how you set up usb networking on ubuntu: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/htc/Screenshot-6.png Mar 10 13:49:24 if this doesn't work, it's a bug in meego ^ Mar 10 13:49:53 ali1234, that dialog does not exist in meego :P Mar 10 13:50:02 this is how you set it up in ubuntu Mar 10 13:50:12 then you plug in the meego device and it automatically configures on dhcp Mar 10 13:51:20 basically the image replaces all this (none of which should be necessary): http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Tips_and_Tricks/N900_USB_Networking#Automatic_configuration_with_Ubuntu_9.10_and_10.04 Mar 10 13:52:51 <_kristianm> hi, can anyone explain the difference between Qt Quick and QML to me? - is there a definition of Qt Quick? - is it a special branch, a version number, a set of features, or just a marketing term? Mar 10 13:53:04 it's a marketing term Mar 10 13:56:18 I got MeeGo IVI running, it is still quite buggy but some improvements have been made since the 1.1 version Mar 10 13:57:04 _kristianm: I believe the idea is that Qt Quick is the name for the combination of QML + QML Designer Mar 10 13:57:34 qt quick includes also qt side Mar 10 13:58:02 haha http://dailyqt.crossmap.com/ Mar 10 13:59:45 so qt quick means short psalm from bible?:) Mar 10 14:01:04 no, I saw something this morning about 13 things cool about Qt Mar 10 14:01:25 <_kristianm> mihero you mean pyside? *qt side google* Mar 10 14:01:30 and one of them was the backronym Mar 10 14:02:26 [Bonus tip: Qt Quick stands for “Qt User Interface Creation Kit]. Mar 10 14:02:32 * lcuk thought that was nifty Mar 10 14:02:40 http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/03/10/reasons-to-get-stuck-on-qt-a-bakers-dozen/?sf1168252=1 Mar 10 14:04:47 is pyside really new? i thought it was available for years? Mar 10 14:09:01 lcuk: too bad that becomes "qt qt user interface creation kit" everywhere then... Mar 10 14:09:17 ahiemstra, shh :P Mar 10 14:09:24 what i want to know is how can i use qt quick without having to write any of that ugly javascript? Mar 10 14:10:19 does Qml use only javascript, or is it EMCA script or whatever and has potential to use an alternative engine ? Mar 10 14:10:35 javascript and ecmascript are the same thing Mar 10 14:11:22 ali1234: you can't Mar 10 14:11:35 ahiemstra: why not? Mar 10 14:11:50 can't i just declare the same objects in C++ code? Mar 10 14:12:09 and add them to a QGraphicsView or whatever? Mar 10 14:12:16 no Mar 10 14:12:33 all the qml elements are private implementations and not exposed to c++ Mar 10 14:12:44 great Mar 10 14:13:27 what if i want to subclass them? Mar 10 14:14:09 ali1234: you can't do that either Mar 10 14:14:30 and yes, that is incredibly annoying Mar 10 14:14:32 ahiemstra, ? Mar 10 14:14:37 seems pretty useless then Mar 10 14:14:52 I thought QML was able to be recursed and enumerated and stuff Mar 10 14:14:58 what is the benefit of QML over HTML5 then? Mar 10 14:15:18 and had a DOM and introspection capabilities Mar 10 14:15:22 um... you subclass QML elements in QML just fine Mar 10 14:15:33 toninikk1nen: yes, in qml Mar 10 14:15:35 not in c++ Mar 10 14:15:40 i want to sublass them in C++ Mar 10 14:15:47 i want to write as little javascript as possible Mar 10 14:15:57 because javascript is a horrible ugly and slow language Mar 10 14:16:14 you can use javascript in a minimum way just to glue things together and the rest in c++... Mar 10 14:16:19 ali1234: the biggest benefit, in my opinion, is a way cleaner api and much more direct c++ data binding Mar 10 14:16:42 ali1234 meant "Because javascript is not as optimal as certain other binary compiled language offerings" Mar 10 14:16:43 yes, like sharing the sama data model btw. qml and c++ is prett nifty Mar 10 14:16:55 toninikk1nen: but if i do that, i have to write all my QML objects in C++ from scratch? because i can't just subclass QML's Rectangle for example Mar 10 14:17:19 ali1234: Not fully true. V8 is rather fast and the language is also actually pretty nice if you just use it right (the same as C++). Mar 10 14:17:41 you subclass QML's rectangle in QML and glue that to c++ Mar 10 14:17:46 ali1234: you could encapsulate the qml objects instead of extending them Mar 10 14:18:02 just use it for a day or two and it will feel much clearer... Mar 10 14:20:31 here is an example: http://pastebin.com/pXPgpYXn Mar 10 14:20:39 how would i do this if my UI was written in QML? Mar 10 14:21:58 ali1234: use a c++ model to provide the data and use that in the qml Mar 10 14:22:09 i already do that Mar 10 14:22:34 the point is that with this code i do not have to rewrite the UI when the datamodel changes Mar 10 14:22:57 so how would QML make this simpler? Mar 10 14:23:12 seems like i would have to define another model for the QML, and then keep them in sync by hand Mar 10 14:23:12 qml responds to data changes Mar 10 14:23:17 that's extra work not less Mar 10 14:23:44 i don't think you understand what the code example does... Mar 10 14:24:14 it's building a UI dynamically at runtime depending on the properties available on an arbitrary QObject Mar 10 14:24:16 no, I don't really Mar 10 14:24:33 what is the ui supposed to look like? Mar 10 14:24:50 a bunch of sliders Mar 10 14:24:54 and colour choosers Mar 10 14:25:02 in QML you start from the direction of how the UI should look and behave, not from the direction of autogenerating based on whatever happens to be in a data model Mar 10 14:25:39 well, i know how the UI should look. it should provide methods for changing the properties of an arbitrary object :) Mar 10 14:25:58 ali1234: well, in this case you'd need to reimplement that method in qml Mar 10 14:26:10 at least, that would be the easiest solution Mar 10 14:29:14 either that, or a (relatively simple) data model for the display data Mar 10 14:29:30 are you familiar with phpmyadmin? Mar 10 14:29:45 yeah, though not on the code level Mar 10 14:30:03 but you know what it does right? it looks at the database model, and then generates a UI to edit the data Mar 10 14:30:35 imagine trying to write phpmyadmin with QML for the UI Mar 10 14:32:32 hmm, I think that, while it would be quite a bit of work, it would probably be quite doable Mar 10 14:32:50 in fact, i'd most likely also use data models for a pure c++ ui for it :p Mar 10 14:33:02 but the question is, would it be easier or harder than doing it in QWidgets? Mar 10 14:33:03 you could generate chunks of QML from c++ and execute those Mar 10 14:33:10 lol Mar 10 14:33:18 now we enter the realm of "nasty hacks to make it work" Mar 10 14:33:26 :D Mar 10 14:33:27 that's not a hack Mar 10 14:33:46 i'd just end up writing a C++ -> javascript translator Mar 10 14:33:57 berndhs, or you could call to the shell to run pyside to generate some qml which then get instantiated Mar 10 14:33:59 all so i can use this language which is supposed to make everything easier Mar 10 14:34:05 if you want a QML element that depends on the content of your data model, generate the elements Mar 10 14:34:05 goddam idiot users Mar 10 14:34:20 maybe you could use Repeater http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qml-repeater.html Mar 10 14:34:21 * lcuk slides beer over Mar 10 14:34:27 what is up lbt ? Mar 10 14:34:29 ali1234: well, one thing I think would be way easier in qml is the delegates for the table overview and table data overview pages Mar 10 14:34:29 * lbt quaffs Mar 10 14:34:38 oh its not easy, no, but its not a hack Mar 10 14:35:15 lcuk: just users who are incapable of reading.... and then tell you how important their time is ;) Mar 10 14:35:51 ali1234: considering most of what phpmyadmin does is data views with some actions, I would say it is easier in qml actually Mar 10 14:36:02 ...and place the magic needed for your case in delegate of the repeater Mar 10 14:36:02 so i could make a model that models the model, and then delegate it's operation back to C++ code Mar 10 14:36:25 yep Mar 10 14:36:42 it just all sounds like yet more work Mar 10 14:36:56 analogous to what PHP does, generate HTML and CSS on the fly Mar 10 14:37:00 or you could bite the javascript hate and do it in js ;) it's not too bad as long as oyu use it for simple logic, calling methods etc. Mar 10 14:37:30 ali1234: well, as I said, if I were doing phpmyadmin in qt i would have those models anyway Mar 10 14:37:45 sure, you already have the QSql stuff Mar 10 14:38:12 lbt yes, but that is a human condition Mar 10 14:38:28 the difference with widgets is that I would be exposing the models to qml and using qml listviews + delegates instead of widget based listviews + delegates Mar 10 14:39:09 lbt, try using parchment rolls with a wax seal, I bet they would read it then! Mar 10 14:39:10 lcuk: I'm still being polite... just Mar 10 14:39:24 especially since I can't point to a decent wiki page.... Mar 10 14:39:28 which is my bad Mar 10 14:39:51 just booked flights+hotel for meego.fi though \o/ Mar 10 14:40:00 so I should write something now Mar 10 14:40:21 lbt: great! Mar 10 14:40:46 found uber-cheap flight .... but all hotels are full :( Mar 10 14:40:59 * lcuk has not even got a ticket yet Mar 10 14:41:07 lbt: i ended up paying 100eur/night Mar 10 14:41:08 you? Mar 10 14:41:09 true, there happens to be some other events at the same time Mar 10 14:41:16 so how do i get from a QObject to a model? Mar 10 14:41:23 Stskeeps: yep - "Homeland" Mar 10 14:41:50 i guess i use something like the code snippet to build the model Mar 10 14:41:53 although..... Stskeeps.... where are you? and do they have twin rooms ? Mar 10 14:42:14 lbt: good question, sec.. Mar 10 14:42:15 ali1234: that's a different story but yeah, something like that code to add elements to a model Mar 10 14:42:36 so my C++ code gets more complex, and i also have to write a bunch of javascript on top Mar 10 14:42:44 how is this "quick" again? Mar 10 14:42:45 ali1234: hehe Mar 10 14:43:11 ali1234: never believe marketing Mar 10 14:43:15 i don't :) Mar 10 14:43:29 ali1234: well I don't think they had this use case in mind for it :) Mar 10 14:43:32 lbt: scandic tampere city Mar 10 14:43:57 javascript is just as fast as c++ in free fall :) Mar 10 14:48:15 Yop All. Mar 10 14:49:28 what, oulu hotels full already ? Mar 10 14:50:12 or was that about tampere ? Mar 10 14:54:45 target: sony weapon: LOIC hive: loic.anonops.in port: 6667 chan: #loic Mar 10 14:54:56 ... Mar 10 15:17:13 Hi Stskeeps, I have a fix for chrome-meego-plugins package to build on ARM Mar 10 15:17:23 cool Mar 10 15:17:41 i can help upload that if you need Mar 10 15:18:00 I sent you a diff of the package Mar 10 15:18:08 k Mar 10 15:18:24 or I branch it in meego.com OBS and submit it.... Mar 10 15:18:33 well, one or the other works Mar 10 15:20:06 wrt to chromium in general, do we stay with the very old version in Trunk ? Mar 10 15:20:28 What happened with courgette in chromium? Mar 10 15:21:36 SpeedEvil: not sure Mar 10 15:33:28 pvanhoof, INSERT OR REPLACE? Why not UPSERT ;-) Mar 10 15:33:58 although, the former is nicely explicit. the latter is most likely better known Mar 10 15:37:28 * lcuk tests installing stuff on n900 Mar 10 15:37:56 :O cannot install git on n900 Mar 10 15:38:20 Problem: nothing provides perl(Error) needed by git-1.7.2.2-2.27.armv7l Mar 10 15:39:08 mikhas: Isn't UPSERT a DB-specific extension? Mar 10 15:42:43 miksuh, UPSERT? :) Mar 10 15:43:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upsert Mar 10 15:43:01 ah yes Mar 10 15:43:10 look at that, first time I hear about this Mar 10 15:43:36 Well it's not in master yet, so maybe we will use UPSERT :) Mar 10 15:44:49 Problem with upsert is just like insert-or-replace that it doesn't differentiate between single-value and multi-value, while in RDF-world those two are different (and yet aren't different) Mar 10 15:45:21 I have problems installing mx-devel and clutter-gst-devel on meego 1.0 because of newer versions of gst-plugins-good-devel (and another package) installed in the system, what may be wrong? Mar 10 15:45:27 Update is more about rows, in rdf you don't really have rows Mar 10 15:46:36 bug 14340 Mar 10 15:46:38 <_MeeeGoBot_> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14340 nor, Undecided, ---, ulf.hofemeier, NEW, Cannot install git on N900 Mar 10 15:48:39 So maybe... TUPSERT ?? Mar 10 15:48:41 :-p Mar 10 15:48:55 Heh, tupsert stands for? Tuple insrt? Mar 10 15:49:15 Triple update or isnert Mar 10 15:49:35 TUPLE UPDATE OR REPLACE Mar 10 15:50:03 Well it's insert or replace, insert in case of multivalue and replace in case of single value Mar 10 15:50:24 As insert in rdf can mean append Mar 10 15:50:35 I know it's all a bit confusing for relational database ppl :) Mar 10 16:13:33 ~seen alterego Mar 10 16:13:34 alterego is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 27 messages. Is idling for 6h 15m 53s, last said: 'RST38h: but Nokia already folded :P'. Mar 10 16:23:20 hey there. I tried running a meego image in qemu Mar 10 16:23:47 All I get is a "Starting meego" message for a very short time and after that I just see a silver white screen and nothing happens Mar 10 16:24:03 I tried the handset ia32 and netbootk ia32 image Mar 10 16:24:26 OpenGL hardware acceleration is provided Mar 10 16:24:28 try to get into the boot menu and disable silent Mar 10 16:24:57 dm8tbr: Which key accesses the menu? It seems really fast to me Mar 10 16:25:08 I think tab Mar 10 16:25:13 * thomasjfox tries Mar 10 16:26:11 dm8tbr: Jackpot! Mar 10 16:26:25 It loads the kernel and then stalls Mar 10 16:28:14 Hi Mar 10 16:28:22 Maybe the qemu version from Fedora 14 is not compatible Mar 10 16:29:25 morn Ulf^ Mar 10 16:29:34 Hi Stskeeps! Mar 10 16:30:39 berndhs: you rang? Mar 10 16:37:25 alterego: yes wondering if you want to chat about revolutionary UI stuff :) Mar 10 16:43:12 yeah, meego is running using the qemu version supplied with madde Mar 10 16:43:21 Time for some rockbox porting ;) Mar 10 16:51:21 kaitlin__, Do you know anything about sensor orientation being borked in the QML images? Mar 10 16:52:17 Ulf^: You mean like the screen is rotated in a way the user doesn't expect it (f.e. on top)? Mar 10 16:52:24 berndhs: sure :) Mar 10 16:52:29 berndhs: here? :) Mar 10 16:52:41 Ulf^: Happened to me yesterday when trying meego on the n900 Mar 10 16:52:41 thomasjfox, wrong window, but yes, that too ;) Mar 10 16:57:39 alterego: im here Mar 10 16:57:53 we can chat here or in more private Mar 10 16:58:51 Well, maybe here, if we're not completely off topic, as long as the conversation is interesting it might attract more people :) Mar 10 16:59:02 So, what's on your mind then? Mar 10 16:59:12 ok lets start here, we can always move Mar 10 16:59:44 what i'm after is makeing the programming effort for multiple screen sizes managable Mar 10 17:00:23 with current methods, you write 1 app for phones, then basically 1 app for tablet, 1 for desktop Mar 10 17:00:27 too much work Mar 10 17:00:40 i want to do 1 + 0.1 + 0.1 Mar 10 17:00:47 Are we talking in general or a specific set of tools, say, Qml or Qt etc? Mar 10 17:01:06 in general, but I want to start with QML/Qt Mar 10 17:01:25 for convenience Mar 10 17:01:31 The paradigms should should translate to web/html5 also anyway :) Mar 10 17:01:36 right Mar 10 17:01:58 if its done right, it shouldn't matter a great deal Mar 10 17:02:46 the reasons I asked for collaborators is that i'm an engineer, and this also needs a designer Mar 10 17:03:02 toothbrushes and coffee machines are designed Mar 10 17:03:23 and this is in part that kind of design Mar 10 17:04:06 Stskeeps: what about sending the N900 adaptation summaries to meego-handset to have eveything N900 there? Mar 10 17:04:31 but other kinds of collaborators are welcome of course, just have to keep in mind the design part Mar 10 17:05:03 Stskeeps: those summaries are useful for N900 MeeGo testers that otherwise might feel overwhelmed by the meego-dev topics and traffic Mar 10 17:06:08 Sure, well I'm a programmer but I like to think I have a good sense of aesthetic also. And I have quite a lot of experience using various technologies when developing UI/UXs Mar 10 17:06:43 its about artistic and ergonomic aspects Mar 10 17:06:50 I think UIs that flow, maybe even similar to how WP7 moves about are an interesting paradigm Mar 10 17:06:57 yes Mar 10 17:07:36 I think looking at the UI as a HUD is also useful Mar 10 17:07:45 Yes, Mar 10 17:07:51 away from the old style bunch of panels Mar 10 17:07:59 More toward widgets? Mar 10 17:08:13 well, concentrate on delivering the content Mar 10 17:08:24 It'll be interesting to see how scalable the tablet UX is Mar 10 17:08:33 and showing control elements only as necessary Mar 10 17:08:51 some things between tablets and desktops can just be scaled Mar 10 17:09:09 but for phones, for example, you need to group things differently Mar 10 17:09:19 Well, seems to me, that tablets, like handsets perfer to go fullscreen wrt apps Mar 10 17:09:35 show different collections of things within the app Mar 10 17:09:51 right with small displays, you dont have much choices except full screen Mar 10 17:09:52 Not sure what you mean, do you have a usecase? :) Mar 10 17:10:16 use case is shoing a document and index information Mar 10 17:10:28 Ah, right Mar 10 17:10:37 like an RSS news item, and list of headlines, list of feeds Mar 10 17:10:54 how much of which part you show varies with the real estate available Mar 10 17:10:57 Yeah, the old drill up/down Mar 10 17:11:04 thigns like that yes Mar 10 17:11:25 but even for desktops, showing everything at once is not a good idea Mar 10 17:11:33 its just left over from slow displays Mar 10 17:11:45 So, ideally you'd define your views, and depending on screen estate the UI manager could either display panes or provide drill up/down Mar 10 17:12:05 yes Mar 10 17:12:09 That's a nice idea. Mar 10 17:12:17 and all this needs to be dynamic Mar 10 17:12:29 Yeah Mar 10 17:12:32 depending, for example, on the curent display Mar 10 17:12:47