**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 11 02:59:57 2011
Apr 11 04:39:32 <iekku> morning
Apr 11 04:39:51 <dm8tbr> mood groaning
Apr 11 04:48:14 <berndhs> morning indeed, here too :)
Apr 11 06:38:28 <leakydick> hi
Apr 11 06:38:39 <Termana> morning
Apr 11 06:39:20 <leakydick> Did the SVN close down?
Apr 11 06:46:22 <timoph> svn?
Apr 11 09:21:05 <jsmith_> hi, just now itried meego on beagleboard, getting error mount: mount point /sys/kernel/debug/ does not exist..any solution for thisSSSSS?
Apr 11 09:26:10 <alterego> jsmith_: you might have more luck in #meego-arm
Apr 11 09:45:16 <CosmoHill> dear lord, no wonder people stopped using myspace
Apr 11 10:42:06 <andreizro> hy all. I am having problems building glibc on ARM. Using MeeGo 1.1.99.0.20110329.5 (1.2 rc1) .... I get exactly the error described here: http://lists.linaro.org/pipermail/linaro-toolchain/2010-July/000021.html
Apr 11 10:42:34 <andreizro> shouldn't this be fixed? I see it built ok in Trunk
Apr 11 10:42:42 <iekku> andreizro, #meego-arm?
Apr 11 10:43:04 <iekku> andreizro, fastest way to find help :D
Apr 11 10:43:06 <andreizro> I'll try  ... thanks
Apr 11 12:39:38 <berndhs> morning
Apr 11 12:41:51 <CosmoHill> close enough
Apr 11 13:23:42 <taljurf> guys, what interface is the tablet meego using, the same netbook interface?
Apr 11 13:24:03 <mikeleib> nope.  it's own
Apr 11 13:24:39 <mikeleib> s/it's/its/
Apr 11 13:24:39 <infobot> mikeleib meant: nope.  its own
Apr 11 13:24:47 <Sage> taljurf: it is the one called "MeeGo User Experience"
Apr 11 13:25:00 <slaine> Tablet UX
Apr 11 13:25:13 <mikeleib> MeeGo UX
Apr 11 13:25:23 <mikeleib> that's what it's called in the repos
Apr 11 13:25:24 <slaine> Dear God, why confuse it even more
Apr 11 13:25:26 <Sage> slaine: actually just MeeGo UX no tablet in the name
Apr 11 13:25:33 <Sage> https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-ux
Apr 11 13:25:38 <slaine> Are all other UX's being dropped ?
Apr 11 13:25:49 <CosmoHill> hey slaine
Apr 11 13:25:54 <slaine> Hey CosmoHill
Apr 11 13:26:10 <Sage> slaine: There is "MeeGo Netbook UX", "MeeGo Handset UX" and then the new "MeeGo UX" (also called tablet ux in many places)
Apr 11 13:26:15 <CosmoHill> Handset, Tablet and netbook each have their own UX
Apr 11 13:26:22 <mikeleib> handset images continue to be made with the handset UX and netbook images continue to be made with the netbook UX
Apr 11 13:26:40 <CosmoHill> hey vgrade-de
Apr 11 13:26:50 <mikeleib> as has been demonstrated, it is possible to run the MeeGo UX on a handset if you want to
Apr 11 13:26:50 <CosmoHill> Reading vs Leeds in two weeks
Apr 11 13:26:52 <Sage> https://bugs.meego.com/enter_bug.cgi?classification=MeeGo%20Platform "Bugs for MeeGo User Experience" ;)
Apr 11 13:27:06 <slaine> Yes, but calling the MeeGo Tablet UX the MeeGo UX implies something, whether intentionally or not
Apr 11 13:27:06 <slaine> in that it's THE MeeGo UX
Apr 11 13:27:12 <vgrade-de> hi cosmohill, real playoff battle
Apr 11 13:28:28 <vgrade-de> CosmoHill: we've slipped up a few times over the last few matches, lets hope we can at least stay in a plyoff spot
Apr 11 13:28:39 <vgrade-de> TSCHAKeee: hi
Apr 11 13:29:10 <vgrade-de> did you see, https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13504#attach_4510, looks like our joggler bug, and a  possible resolution
Apr 11 13:29:13 <MeeGoBot> Bug 13504 maj, Medium, ---, matthew.d.roper, NEW, IVI+emgd: screen tears/black when launching MTF apps on Crown Bay
Apr 11 13:29:19 <CosmoHill> I've printed off all the code for one programming assignment
Apr 11 13:29:29 <CosmoHill> damn thing must be almost 50 pages :o
Apr 11 13:29:46 <mikeleib> you have to print it?
Apr 11 13:30:02 <mikeleib> what does the recipient do with the output?
Apr 11 13:30:22 <CosmoHill> read it I suppose
Apr 11 13:30:40 <CosmoHill> we're required to print out our source code for (assignment) submission
Apr 11 13:44:01 * CosmoHill has half a dinning table of source code
Apr 11 13:48:36 <ali1234> 50 pages... that's some long assignment
Apr 11 13:48:49 <ali1234> how many lines is it?
Apr 11 13:51:50 <CosmoHill> each function is printed seperatly, some functions are 250 lines, some are 5
Apr 11 13:57:00 <gabrbedd> 12 pt. font?  Double-spaced?
Apr 11 13:57:11 <gabrbedd> Do inline functions get single-spaced or smaller type?
Apr 11 13:59:05 <CosmoHill> gabrbedd: whatever nodepad++ prints .m files in
Apr 11 14:01:30 <gabrbedd> CosmoHill: I think it prints in the computer lab by the library, on the other side of campus >>>>>>>>
Apr 11 14:02:41 <CosmoHill> hehe yeah
Apr 11 14:02:57 <CosmoHill> wait, did I say other side of campus? I meant the other campus
Apr 11 14:07:03 * CosmoHill treats himself to a cookie and some russel howard
Apr 11 14:07:42 <CosmoHill> ooo even better, Have I got news for you
Apr 11 14:36:55 <gabrbedd> CosmoHill: news?
Apr 11 14:38:00 <CosmoHill> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mkw3
Apr 11 14:39:38 <gabrbedd> CosmoHill: oh!  haha
Apr 11 14:40:22 <gabrbedd> CosmoHill: There's a radio program on here that's kinda similar called "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me"
Apr 11 14:41:16 * CosmoHill reads a FAQ that has this:
Apr 11 14:41:16 <CosmoHill> A website about cats that look like Hitler. Are you mental or what?
Apr 11 14:41:16 <CosmoHill> Yes. Next question.
Apr 11 14:43:23 <gabrbedd> :-)
Apr 11 14:46:02 <CosmoHill> I do like that they display the complaints as well as the complements on the website
Apr 11 14:46:08 <r4co0n> Hey, i just downloaded the img from http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/latest/images/meego-netbook-ia32/ in order to install it to my eee-pc. I dd-ed the image content to a stick, i thought this was what i did when i first installed MeeGo, but the resulting USB-image does seem to be not bootable...
Apr 11 14:46:24 <r4co0n> Did i do something terribly wrong?
Apr 11 14:46:40 <CosmoHill> r4co0n: what processor does your eeeeeeeeeeeeeeepc have?
Apr 11 14:46:47 <r4co0n> atom
Apr 11 14:46:52 <r4co0n> wrong image?
Apr 11 14:47:30 <CosmoHill> could you try another USB stick or try the stick on another computer?
Apr 11 14:48:36 <r4co0n> cosmo, sure, but i think i had the problem with the last image as well...
Apr 11 14:48:40 <r4co0n> may be the stick
Apr 11 14:48:53 <CosmoHill> could it be BIOS settings?
Apr 11 14:49:04 <r4co0n> shouldnt be
Apr 11 14:49:12 <r4co0n> i installed meego already
Apr 11 14:49:15 <r4co0n> its running
Apr 11 14:49:20 <r4co0n> i just want a new version
Apr 11 14:49:33 <r4co0n> and fiddled some bit with the files, so wanted to start over new
Apr 11 14:49:34 <CosmoHill> 1.2 should be released within a few weeks
Apr 11 14:50:35 <r4co0n> its a bios setting
Apr 11 14:50:43 <r4co0n> other netbook boots
Apr 11 14:50:54 <r4co0n> any idea what could be the reason?
Apr 11 14:51:06 <r4co0n> i must have misconfigured sth when i was drunk :P
Apr 11 14:51:31 <CosmoHill> did you use the DD command on the website?
Apr 11 14:51:35 <gabrbedd> r4co0n: Exactly where does it fail?  Can you not even select the drive for booting?
Apr 11 14:52:00 <gabrbedd> r4co0n: Or do you see the boot screen (Run MeeGo, Install, etc), and it fails after that?
Apr 11 14:52:04 <r4co0n> it doesnt consider the thumbdrive bootable
Apr 11 14:52:16 <r4co0n> dont see the start screen
Apr 11 14:52:26 <CosmoHill> do other computers consider it bootable?
Apr 11 14:52:28 <r4co0n> i used dd from debian squeeze
Apr 11 14:52:31 <r4co0n> yes
Apr 11 14:52:44 <r4co0n> a fujitsu just loaded it
Apr 11 14:53:40 <r4co0n> summary: drive bootable, but not considered so by eee-pc. probably bios-setting.
Apr 11 14:54:00 <gabrbedd> r4co0n: AFAIK, most bioses just scan to see if a device is attached... and they do not inspect its contents.
Apr 11 14:54:26 <gabrbedd> r4co0n: So, it looks like a setup issue with your hardware/bios
Apr 11 14:57:00 <r4co0n> sry, i just had to specificially select the thumb drive, deactivating everything else wasnt enough. works now. and had to turn off "fast boot" to be able to do so...
Apr 11 14:57:13 <r4co0n> thx for the help
Apr 11 14:58:15 <r4co0n> MeeGo r0cK5
Apr 11 14:58:24 <gabrbedd> r4co0n: You're welcome... glad you got it working.
Apr 11 14:59:10 <CosmoHill> :)
Apr 11 15:16:25 * CosmoHill wonders why his default printer keeps changing
Apr 11 15:19:08 <r4co0n> should i give my separate home partition on another drive also btrfs or ext3? anyone got performance tips?
Apr 11 15:37:18 <vgrade-de> TSCHAKeee: hi, did you see the EMGD bug report and possible solution
Apr 11 15:38:01 <gabrbedd> "The documentation for git suite was started by David Graeves, and later enhanced greatly by the contributors on the git-list"  You rock, lbt!
Apr 11 15:38:45 <CosmoHill> no no no wtf
Apr 11 15:39:42 <CosmoHill> a major part of my assignment has decided it no longer wants to work
Apr 11 15:39:54 <Stskeeps> welcome to murphy's law
Apr 11 15:40:03 <Stskeeps> might as well get used to it for your working life
Apr 11 15:40:03 <Stskeeps> :P
Apr 11 15:40:06 <w00t_> ^
Apr 11 15:40:14 <CosmoHill> it fecking worked an hour ago
Apr 11 15:40:34 <bedboi> hi there
Apr 11 15:40:34 <CosmoHill> the error message must be pushing 50 lines :/
Apr 11 15:41:10 <bedboi> hi there. Anyone knows if the meego virtual keyboard can be used as a standalone app?
Apr 11 15:41:23 <frals> w00t_: go back to your operators! ;)
Apr 11 15:41:43 <w00t_> :'(
Apr 11 15:43:24 <r4co0n> my again: I finished installation, but meego seems to hang after hitting the "finish" button, the guy waving the hand at me wont go away...
Apr 11 15:43:29 <r4co0n> *me
Apr 11 15:44:25 <TSCHAKeee> vgrade-de: yup, i am building a new image to test.
Apr 11 15:46:01 <vgrade-de> TSCHAKeee: for the A9 or Joggler
Apr 11 15:46:33 <TSCHAKeee> a9
Apr 11 15:46:35 <mikeleib> r4co0n: I've seen it hang in umounting loopback, but there's usually text on the screen
Apr 11 15:46:40 <TSCHAKeee> but it should be the same for the joggler
Apr 11 15:46:45 <vgrade-de> yup
Apr 11 15:46:55 <vgrade-de> fingers x
Apr 11 15:46:56 <r4co0n> mikeleib: no text, since ~12min
Apr 11 15:47:09 <mikeleib> that's a new one to me
Apr 11 15:47:27 <mikeleib> r4co0n: is it repeatable?  If so, file it
Apr 11 15:47:40 <r4co0n> mikeleib: i accidently pulled the stick to soon when i installed 30min ago, but it didnt do anything else... it might be repeatable
Apr 11 15:47:41 <TSCHAKeee> vgrade-de: the problem described literally describes what I saw in the early days of X compositors, when they would try to grab a texture bigger than the driver would allow.
Apr 11 15:47:47 <mikeleib> If not, then file it but not it's a heisenbug
Apr 11 15:47:52 <TSCHAKeee> firefox was notorious for this
Apr 11 15:47:55 <mikeleib> s/not/note/
Apr 11 15:47:56 <infobot> mikeleib meant: If note, then file it but not it's a heisenbug
Apr 11 15:48:06 * mikeleib needs better regex
Apr 11 15:48:40 <r4co0n> mikeleib: gonna try again, cause last time it failed mounting some drive after reboot...
Apr 11 15:49:28 <vgrade-de> TSCHAKeee: the screen shot looks like the effect I get on the joggler sometimes with tablet ux, it can be a lot worse though
Apr 11 15:49:31 <kcroot> hello i am looking source SDK for meego
Apr 11 15:49:45 <r4co0n> any reason there is no text-console showing errors? would i need a developer version of MeeGo?
Apr 11 15:49:54 <CosmoHill> <rant>
Apr 11 15:49:56 <kcroot> i using gentoo but isnt in portage
Apr 11 15:50:08 <CosmoHill> oh screw you matlab, on like 54 of 700 I had '; instead of ;'
Apr 11 15:50:42 <mikeleib> r4co0n: I think it's just freezing before it would go back to text mode
Apr 11 15:51:06 <dfadsf> i am angry
Apr 11 15:51:08 <gabrbedd> r4co0n: I've been seeing the same thing when installing lately.  Just cycle the power button... I think your install completed fine.
Apr 11 15:51:11 <CosmoHill> http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/pastebin/index.php?7 <<< that was the error message it gave me
Apr 11 15:51:14 <CosmoHill> dfadsf: me too
Apr 11 15:51:45 <r4co0n> gabrbedd: it didnt last time, but i pulled the usb 5s faster...
Apr 11 15:52:17 <r4co0n> gabrbedd: u r right, we should file a minor bug though, shouldnt we?
Apr 11 15:52:23 <dfadsf> meego seems popular among hackers
Apr 11 15:52:41 <r4co0n> meego is popular at my grandma's
Apr 11 15:52:45 <r4co0n> she likes it a lot
Apr 11 15:53:20 <r4co0n> no joke
Apr 11 15:53:50 <dfadsf> she love meego rather than your grandpa?
Apr 11 15:54:00 <r4co0n> hes dead for 20 years
Apr 11 15:54:02 <r4co0n> so yeah
Apr 11 15:55:08 <r4co0n> she had some win7 starter beforehands
Apr 11 15:55:15 <r4co0n> and asked lots of questions
Apr 11 15:55:20 <r4co0n> this time is over
Apr 11 15:55:30 <r4co0n> it does everything she wants
Apr 11 15:55:31 <gabrbedd> r4co0n: Yeah... need to file a bug.  Lemme know if you do and I'll add myself to the CC.
Apr 11 15:55:43 <CosmoHill> "why can't I have four programs at once"
Apr 11 15:56:38 * mikeleib makes snide comment about OOM killer and small devices
Apr 11 15:59:00 <dfadsf> i think i must ask more questions than your grandma
Apr 11 15:59:22 <dfadsf> for i still use winxp
Apr 11 16:00:21 <lbt> gabrbedd: :)
Apr 11 16:00:25 <dfadsf> i am a poor guy
Apr 11 16:02:37 <GAN900> CosmoHill, who can't?
Apr 11 16:04:01 <CosmoHill> I thought windows starter was limited to 3 or 4 programs
Apr 11 16:05:36 <maligor> only time I ever saw it was on one of the Lenovo netbooks, I recoiled in horror and never booted it again
Apr 11 16:06:29 <dfadsf> emacs or vim?
Apr 11 16:06:52 <maligor> I prefer to use gnu/linux over emacs
Apr 11 16:07:27 <gabrbedd> CosmoHill: It is.
Apr 11 16:15:34 <TSCHAKeee> vgrade-de: much better
Apr 11 16:16:27 <vgrade-de> TSCHAKeee: \o/
Apr 11 16:16:46 <vgrade-de> TSCHAKeee: wish I had my Joggler with me
Apr 11 16:17:22 <TSCHAKeee> i have no way to trigger the home screen yt
Apr 11 16:18:37 <vgrade-de> does the a9 have any hw buttons
Apr 11 16:19:03 <vgrade-de> TSCHAKeee: what does video looko like?
Apr 11 16:19:08 <TSCHAKeee> two
Apr 11 16:20:08 <TSCHAKeee> they provide a really low quality big buck bunny
Apr 11 16:20:14 <TSCHAKeee> but it looks like here that it is using xv
Apr 11 16:20:38 <mikeleib> there is nothing you can do to improve the quality of that film.  You can only improve the bandwidth and resolution
Apr 11 16:20:53 <TSCHAKeee> I have a 1080p copy of it somewhere
Apr 11 16:21:33 <mikeleib> sounds like improved bandwidth and resolution...
Apr 11 16:22:14 <TSCHAKeee> sometimes the pedantism of extremely left brained people seriously piss me off.
Apr 11 16:22:20 * TSCHAKeee looks at mikeleib
Apr 11 16:23:33 <vgrade-de> TSCHAKeee: the n900 DE guys used this patch for home key, https://build.pub.meego.com/package/view_file?file=0002-Grab-ctrl-to-go-home-on-N900.patch&package=meego-ux-daemon&project=Project%3ADE%3ADevel%3ATablet&srcmd5=48e97a9ba00abd90741b8941f8264d5e
Apr 11 16:25:02 <vgrade-de> TSCHAKeee: have to run now, catch you later.  look fwd to a video of table ux on a9
Apr 11 16:25:39 <CosmoHill> bytw  vgrade-de
Apr 11 16:25:41 <CosmoHill> bye*
Apr 11 16:43:32 * CosmoHill sees his dream car and then sees his car insurance double, then crys
Apr 11 16:44:02 <CosmoHill> the 3rd cheapest quote is over £1000 more than the car
Apr 11 17:06:27 <qgil> hi, are you able to log in at http://planet.meego.com  ?
Apr 11 17:06:58 <Stskeeps> doesn' work for me
Apr 11 17:07:11 <Wellark^> oh, I thought it was only me :D
Apr 11 17:07:27 <TSCHAKeee> there you go, it is broken.
Apr 11 17:07:37 <TSCHAKeee> everybody take out your baseball bats and beat the admins
Apr 11 17:07:41 <TSCHAKeee> :P
Apr 11 17:08:05 <berndhs> should I want to log in there ?
Apr 11 17:08:06 <qgil> ok, thanks - this is blocking https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14932
Apr 11 17:08:08 <TSCHAKeee> then apologize profusely and offer them beer, so they may fix the problem
Apr 11 17:08:08 <MeeGoBot> Bug 14932 nor, Undecided, ---, henri.bergius, NEW, Please add Michael Hasselmann to the MeeGo Planet
Apr 11 17:08:17 <CosmoHill> I can log in
Apr 11 17:08:37 <DawnFoster> I can log in
Apr 11 17:08:47 <qgil> berndhs: when it is fully implemented yes - you will be able to help promoting the good stuff to the meego.com homepage
Apr 11 17:08:50 <DawnFoster> but they were supposed to give me admin access, which I don't have yet
Apr 11 17:09:04 <CosmoHill> DawnFoster: snap
Apr 11 17:09:09 <qgil> DawnFoster: maybe I can't login because I have admin access  ;)
Apr 11 17:09:28 <CosmoHill> wait, I can log in but it still has "login" in the corner
Apr 11 17:09:30 <DawnFoster> well, since you have admin access, if you ever get logged in, can you grant it to me :)
Apr 11 17:09:38 <CosmoHill> guess it means I can't leave
Apr 11 17:09:56 <qgil> DawnFoster: I don't think I'm that kind of admin
Apr 11 17:10:07 <qgil> I'll send an email to meego.community with these two problems
Apr 11 17:10:09 <DawnFoster> and it thinks I'm logged in, but voting doesn't work
Apr 11 17:10:12 <qgil> ccing henri
Apr 11 17:10:19 <DawnFoster> or file a bug report?
Apr 11 17:10:39 <qgil> CCing bergie in bug reports seems to be less _efficient_
Apr 11 17:10:47 <qgil> and there is already one about login irregularities
Apr 11 17:11:06 <DawnFoster> I think it needs a fair amount of work before it gets launched
Apr 11 17:11:10 <qgil> that looks exactly what you/we have got
Apr 11 17:11:18 <qgil> DawnFoster: me too
Apr 11 17:20:27 <qgil> sent - thanks! http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2011-April/003897.html
Apr 11 17:45:03 <vgrade-de> alterego, did you try removing -opengl, I did the same on the tegra, worked a treat on all the apps but not on panels.  If I removed the opengl from ux-daemon touch stopped working, happy birthday by the way
Apr 11 17:46:18 <TSCHAKeee> vgrade-de: everything works RIGHT up until the MTF keyboard shows up
Apr 11 17:46:38 <TSCHAKeee> then whole screen goes black until it's gone
Apr 11 17:46:58 <Stskeeps> does it use self-composition or not?
Apr 11 17:47:26 <TSCHAKeee> not sure...this is with Tablet UX
Apr 11 17:48:07 <vgrade-de> TSCHAKeee:  kb works ok if not a little slowly for me on fbdev
Apr 11 17:48:29 <alterego> vgrade-de: thanks :) Well, no I've not tried it yet, been out doing birthday things ;)
Apr 11 17:48:59 <vgrade-de> i'll save you a beer for bext week
Apr 11 17:49:05 <TSCHAKeee> so close
Apr 11 17:49:07 <alterego> :)
Apr 11 17:49:43 <TSCHAKeee> although really, i think in the end, LinuxMCE will just do its own thing with the new orbiter, rendering our own QML screens etc.
Apr 11 17:50:01 <TSCHAKeee> we shall see...
Apr 11 17:51:49 <alterego> If I had a panda board I'd make my own Qml MeeGo TV/Multimedia system.
Apr 11 17:51:59 <alterego> Unfortunately I'm living on a budget at the moment :D
Apr 11 17:52:26 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: join our project. ;)
Apr 11 17:52:38 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: we have 10 years of learning from mistakes on our belt. ;)
Apr 11 17:52:39 <GAN900> alterego, wouldn't that be nice?
Apr 11 17:52:57 <alterego> GAN900: ?
Apr 11 17:53:03 <GAN900> I've got enough consoles and STBs in the home theater cabinet to make it not worth it, though.
Apr 11 17:53:05 <alterego> GAN900: You mean a panda media center thingy?
Apr 11 17:53:07 <GAN900> A MeeGo STB
Apr 11 17:53:15 <alterego> Yeah, would be awesome.
Apr 11 17:53:23 <Stskeeps> did you see the xbmc qt clone?
Apr 11 17:53:26 <alterego> I should start a company building them :)
Apr 11 17:53:57 <alterego> The only aspect of meego I'm not really interested in is IVI tbh, because I'd just use tablet on the dashboard (if I had a tablet)
Apr 11 17:54:00 <TSCHAKeee> GAN900: we can control them all.
Apr 11 17:54:07 <GAN900> alterego, yeah.
Apr 11 17:54:31 <GAN900> TSCHAKeee, I just wish CableCard hadn't been neutered.
Apr 11 17:54:33 <alterego> Problem is, it's quite a lot of effort keeping up with everything :D
Apr 11 17:54:52 <TSCHAKeee> GAN900: agreed...but at least we can control external AV gear pretty well
Apr 11 17:55:12 <TSCHAKeee> we can also pipe the result through a tuner like the HDPVR and bounce it around the house
Apr 11 17:55:25 <GAN900> TSCHAKeee, just picked up some INSTEON IR TX/RX devices.
Apr 11 17:55:28 <TSCHAKeee> so at least there is a way around it
Apr 11 17:55:32 <GAN900> Should increase the fun level.
Apr 11 17:55:55 <TSCHAKeee> GAN900: we have an Insteon driver in LinuxMCE that's fairly complete.
Apr 11 17:56:05 <vgrade-de> TSCHAKeee: did you see this bug report, it promises a new ivi QML ux for the 19 April.  I guess they will need to have a kb working for that, bug 14782
Apr 11 17:56:08 <MeeGoBot> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14782 nor, Medium, ---, jimmy.huang, NEW, [IVI-UX]FPS of glxgears/meegovideo is too low IVIHome based on QT
Apr 11 17:56:09 <TSCHAKeee> the only things more complete are the KNX and Z-Wave drivers
Apr 11 17:56:40 <TSCHAKeee> vgrade-de: cool
Apr 11 17:57:22 <RST38h> Why would you need a keyboard in your car? =)
Apr 11 17:57:50 <TSCHAKeee> vgrade-de: GAN900: and while this may not be completely meego related, I threw together a prototype of "Desktop Agent" support to solicit further development: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1pedtpuYzA
Apr 11 17:57:51 <vgrade-de> RST38h: virtual one
Apr 11 17:57:51 <GAN900> Just wish the propreitary protocol weren't the useful one.
Apr 11 17:58:29 * TSCHAKeee does wish more ppl would join our effort.. we have a considerable architecture that's unmatched anywhere else.
Apr 11 17:59:48 <vgrade-de> alterego: I could loan you my pb for a couple of weeks while im on my next trip to Germany
Apr 11 18:00:12 <GAN900> TSCHAKeee, need somebody selling pre-loaded hardware.
Apr 11 18:00:24 <TSCHAKeee> GAN900: http://www.lmcecompatible.com/
Apr 11 18:00:28 <TSCHAKeee> also
Apr 11 18:00:35 <TSCHAKeee> http://www.dianemo.co.uk/
Apr 11 18:00:45 <TSCHAKeee> and a couple of others.
Apr 11 18:01:19 <alterego> vgrade-de: that'd be cool :) I'd love to play with one hooked up to my TV ;)
Apr 11 18:01:41 <alterego> I've also got a USB DVB card (which is supported under linux) which has an IR reciever.
Apr 11 18:01:50 <vgrade-de> I'll bring it along next week,
Apr 11 18:01:53 * TSCHAKeee sighs.
Apr 11 18:02:06 <alterego> So N900 -> LIRC -> DVB DONGLE -> Panda -> 1080p HDTV :)
Apr 11 18:02:07 <TSCHAKeee> . o O (so frustrating.)
Apr 11 18:02:10 <TSCHAKeee> yikes
Apr 11 18:02:21 <TSCHAKeee> primitive.
Apr 11 18:02:34 <TSCHAKeee> (damn, I said that out loud)
Apr 11 18:03:04 <alterego> vgrade-de: thanks, that'd be really cool :)
Apr 11 18:05:30 <TSCHAKeee> why do you want to jerry rig stuff like that?
Apr 11 18:05:33 <TSCHAKeee> really?
Apr 11 18:05:42 <TSCHAKeee> spend a little time thinking things out and abstract a little
Apr 11 18:06:05 <TSCHAKeee> nevermind.
Apr 11 18:07:02 <alterego> TSCHAKeee: ?
Apr 11 18:07:28 <TSCHAKeee> we built an entire smart home platform around a messaging bus
Apr 11 18:07:30 <alterego> I can abstract the N900 and LIRC out with the IR remote that came with the DVB dongle :P
Apr 11 18:07:59 <TSCHAKeee> and built end points for each device we wanted to support, with an abstracted, but well defined command and event structure
Apr 11 18:08:04 <TSCHAKeee> as a result, we can pretty much plug anything in.
Apr 11 18:08:11 <TSCHAKeee> without having to wrap duct tape around it.
Apr 11 18:09:26 <TSCHAKeee> and we spent a great deal of time refining data structures on how to describe each and every device that could exist within a home, as generalized as possible.
Apr 11 18:09:39 <TSCHAKeee> it was a great deal of planning up front
Apr 11 18:09:49 <TSCHAKeee> but it has allowed us to scale outward and not hit any brick walls.
Apr 11 18:09:58 <alterego> What's that got to do with my hardware list?
Apr 11 18:10:24 <TSCHAKeee> it just irritates me when i see people reinventing the wheel over and over
Apr 11 18:10:37 <alterego> What am I reinventing?
Apr 11 18:11:19 <TSCHAKeee> you're making yet another LIRC controlled media setup.
Apr 11 18:11:24 <alterego> Don't be irritated :P
Apr 11 18:11:47 <alterego> No, I'm using LIRC on the N900 to act as an infrared remote.
Apr 11 18:11:55 <TSCHAKeee> it just drives me nuts, because I spent years actually thinking the problem through.
Apr 11 18:12:12 <alterego> Do you have something else that will turn my N900 into an infrared remote control?
Apr 11 18:12:15 <TSCHAKeee> and now I can use whole groups of devices to control virtually everything inside the house
Apr 11 18:12:31 <TSCHAKeee> I run the orbiter program on my N900, which makes it a control for my house.
Apr 11 18:12:47 <TSCHAKeee> but it requires the rest of the LinuxMCE infrastruture
Apr 11 18:12:52 <alterego> Okay, so if you have a wifi/network strategy then sure, I'd prefer that :P
Apr 11 18:13:10 <alterego> I have absolutely _no_ problem with using LinuxMCE :P
Apr 11 18:13:28 <TSCHAKeee> i've been trying to get a panda for months
Apr 11 18:13:33 <TSCHAKeee> so i can start a media director port
Apr 11 18:13:48 <alterego> In fact I'd rather use something that does most if not all of what I want functionally, so I can just play with the UX
Apr 11 18:13:53 <alterego> Because that's all I'm interested in.
Apr 11 18:14:08 <RST38h> "<TSCHAKeee> i've been trying to get a panda for months" <-- this deserves to be saved in a quote list
Apr 11 18:14:19 <TSCHAKeee> RST38h: lol
Apr 11 18:14:19 <alterego> Hahah
Apr 11 18:14:22 <TSCHAKeee> ;)
Apr 11 18:14:38 <TSCHAKeee> wow, okay. let me rephrase that. ;)
Apr 11 18:14:40 <TSCHAKeee> a panda BOARD
Apr 11 18:14:43 <TSCHAKeee> :P
Apr 11 18:14:47 <vgrade-de> TSCHAKeee: alterego has been doing some cool stuff with QML. might be worth discussing the plans for orbiter
Apr 11 18:15:09 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: the idea is to replace the Orbiter software we have right now, with something that renders in QML
Apr 11 18:15:21 <alterego> I don't even know what orbiter is, TSCHAKeee you'll have to forgive my ignorance in this subject. I don't know what is available now, how things are connected together etc.
Apr 11 18:15:32 <alterego> TSCHAKeee: Cool :)
Apr 11 18:15:34 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: if you have 20 minutes
Apr 11 18:15:43 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: you can watch our original demo (circa 2007)
Apr 11 18:15:48 <alterego> Yeah, I've got 20 minutes :)
Apr 11 18:15:52 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: and please forgive the UI
Apr 11 18:15:58 <vgrade-de> just get your orders in for pb.  I had to wait 2 months for mine
Apr 11 18:16:00 <TSCHAKeee> we know it's basic
Apr 11 18:16:20 <TSCHAKeee> but when you're a set of only a few developers
Apr 11 18:16:23 <TSCHAKeee> working on 4 million lines of code
Apr 11 18:16:28 <TSCHAKeee> yeah, you have priorities. ;)
Apr 11 18:16:43 <vgrade-de> mitsutaka: hi, how are things with you, done anything new with the Nexus?
Apr 11 18:16:59 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2176025602905109829
Apr 11 18:17:43 <alterego> Well, I'd be happy to get involved in the UX :)
Apr 11 18:18:32 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: that would be great, the qml for the UX can be developed in parallel while we're working on the code.
Apr 11 18:18:57 <alterego> It'd be refreshing for me to work on just UI code for a change :)
Apr 11 18:19:16 <TSCHAKeee> Orbiter was written way back in 2003
Apr 11 18:19:23 <TSCHAKeee> long before any of this stuff existed
Apr 11 18:19:32 <alterego> And I've been wanting to work on a media centric TV oriented UX for years.
Apr 11 18:20:09 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: TV is but one of our targets.. orbiter runs on tablets, TVs, PDAs, cell phones, and IP phones
Apr 11 18:20:39 <TSCHAKeee> we had to design a whole retargetable UI for it, and now we're about to jettison it.
Apr 11 18:21:32 <alterego> Painful but ultimately hopefully a rewarding excercise :)
Apr 11 18:21:35 <TSCHAKeee> yes
Apr 11 18:22:01 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: if you watch the demo, hopefully you'll get an idea of the scope of the system
Apr 11 18:23:27 <alterego> So does it have PVR archiving capability?
Apr 11 18:23:57 <berndhs> I would love to have linuxMCE for my boat, when I have a boat again :)
Apr 11 18:24:06 <alterego> :)
Apr 11 18:25:23 <TSCHAKeee> berndhs: one of the first deployments of Pluto (the original name for the system) was on a yacht. ;)
Apr 11 18:25:44 <vgrade-de> TSCHAKeee: alterego , how extendable do you think the panels in tablet ux are?
Apr 11 18:25:54 <alterego> Heh, is it weird that I name all my devices after bodies in space as well?
Apr 11 18:26:08 <Stskeeps> what, dead astronauts?
Apr 11 18:26:08 <Stskeeps> :P
Apr 11 18:26:12 <TSCHAKeee> heheh
Apr 11 18:26:22 <TSCHAKeee> vgrade-de: the engine seems extensible enough
Apr 11 18:26:24 <alterego> My primary N900 is Proteus, laptop is Artemis, netbook (gfs now apparently) is Saturn
Apr 11 18:26:43 <alterego> vgrade-de: how do you mean extensible? Maybe a panel is easy if that's what you mean :)
Apr 11 18:27:10 <alterego> s/Maybe/Making/
Apr 11 18:27:10 <infobot> alterego meant: vgrade-de: how do you mean extensible? Making a panel is easy if that's what you mean :)
Apr 11 18:27:24 <vgrade-de> alterego: just thinking about an orbiter panel in tablet ux
Apr 11 18:27:40 <alterego> Good idea, :)
Apr 11 18:28:13 <TSCHAKeee> I had thought of that too.
Apr 11 18:28:28 <TSCHAKeee> we have a concept of "Screens" in Orbiter
Apr 11 18:28:35 <TSCHAKeee> which are basically just encapsulated modalities
Apr 11 18:28:53 <TSCHAKeee> i.e. one screen is a list of all the scenarios available in a room
Apr 11 18:29:01 <TSCHAKeee> another screen is the remote control for what's currently playing
Apr 11 18:29:13 <TSCHAKeee> another screen pops up when a call comes in, etc.
Apr 11 18:29:23 <alterego> Cool
Apr 11 18:29:32 <TSCHAKeee> and we have a concept of "binding" orbiters to a screen etc, so that they stay in sync when something changes
Apr 11 18:29:46 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: for example, if i use my TV remote to start a movie
Apr 11 18:30:00 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: the Joggler beside my bed also changes to the video playing remote
Apr 11 18:30:04 <TSCHAKeee> as well as my cisco IP phone
Apr 11 18:30:08 <TSCHAKeee> etc.
Apr 11 18:30:12 <alterego> Cool
Apr 11 18:30:13 <TSCHAKeee> kept in sync
Apr 11 18:30:25 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: the video shows all of this... are you watching? :)
Apr 11 18:31:01 <alterego> my gf is ebaying at the moment, don't want to screw her auctions just yet :P
Apr 11 18:31:08 <TSCHAKeee> ROFL
Apr 11 18:31:11 <TSCHAKeee> understood completely
Apr 11 18:32:32 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: we also have an extensive plug and play system... if I plug in a new network storage drive, or a new IP phone, or a new media director, or a networked tuner like the HDHomeRun, etc... or a USB device, etc.. the system asks about it, and asks whether or not it should configure it automatically.
Apr 11 18:32:55 <TSCHAKeee> as well as diskless booting of all media PCs
Apr 11 18:33:05 <alterego> neat, what do you use for video streaming?
Apr 11 18:33:07 <alterego> If you do streaming?
Apr 11 18:33:10 <TSCHAKeee> with remote powering on/off
Apr 11 18:33:47 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: it's highly abstracted, currently we use a player based on libxine that we've made into a device for the system, it can stream to the other end points in the house as needed.
Apr 11 18:34:06 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: but it can be replaced with another DCE device that implements gstreamer, or mplayer, or VLC, for example.
Apr 11 18:34:08 <alterego> And do you expose uPnP interfaces etc
Apr 11 18:34:25 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: we really do not care... the core of the system just sends messages, "go play this" "do this" etc.
Apr 11 18:34:35 <alterego> Cool
Apr 11 18:34:44 <alterego> Can you talk uPnP ?
Apr 11 18:34:56 <alterego> You better do ;)
Apr 11 18:34:57 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: we currently package MediaTomb as a UPNP server, and we use djmount to crawl upnp devices for media to show up in the system...but we want to do better.
Apr 11 18:35:01 <TSCHAKeee> the issue being that
Apr 11 18:35:03 <TSCHAKeee> well
Apr 11 18:35:05 <TSCHAKeee> UPnP as a standard
Apr 11 18:35:07 <TSCHAKeee> really sucks.
Apr 11 18:35:17 <alterego> I know :/
Apr 11 18:35:19 <TSCHAKeee> full of holes
Apr 11 18:35:25 <alterego> It's a real b*tch
Apr 11 18:35:27 <TSCHAKeee> and I've been saving up money
Apr 11 18:35:32 <TSCHAKeee> to get a copy of the DLNA standards
Apr 11 18:35:35 <alterego> Unfortunately Sony have used it quite a bit ..
Apr 11 18:35:38 <TSCHAKeee> (it's $10,000 to get the book)
Apr 11 18:35:45 <alterego> Wow ..
Apr 11 18:35:59 <TSCHAKeee> the irony is once we implement the messaging
Apr 11 18:36:04 <TSCHAKeee> we can control their devices effortlessly
Apr 11 18:36:11 <TSCHAKeee> we also were the ONLY system in existance
Apr 11 18:36:16 <TSCHAKeee> to actually implement THX Blackbird
Apr 11 18:36:19 <TSCHAKeee> ALL OF IT
Apr 11 18:36:22 <alterego> :)
Apr 11 18:36:40 <TSCHAKeee> meaning, that if you selected a DVD, or put one in, whatever
Apr 11 18:36:49 <TSCHAKeee> it would contact THX servers, send a disc ID
Apr 11 18:36:56 <alterego> Well, if you ever feel the need to control security cameras I know several PTZ protocols :)
Apr 11 18:37:01 <TSCHAKeee> and based on that disc ID send back a whole set of parameters for the TV and the amplifier
Apr 11 18:37:23 <TSCHAKeee> which the system would send the appropriate commands to set TV aspect ratio, DSP modes for the amplifier etc automatically
Apr 11 18:37:37 <TSCHAKeee> but the standard didn't survive
Apr 11 18:37:45 <TSCHAKeee> because nobody could implement it all
Apr 11 18:37:48 <TSCHAKeee> ;)
Apr 11 18:38:00 <alterego> Neat
Apr 11 18:38:02 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: we do support and control security cameras within the system
Apr 11 18:38:08 <alterego> Oh cool
Apr 11 18:38:20 <TSCHAKeee> as well as provide an interface to security sensors etc
Apr 11 18:38:27 <TSCHAKeee> whether they are stand alone, or connected to a supported panel
Apr 11 18:38:33 <TSCHAKeee> point being you relaly don't need a panel
Apr 11 18:38:42 <TSCHAKeee> orbiter becomes your panel
Apr 11 18:39:23 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: when I say "smart home platform" ... I mean it.
Apr 11 18:39:29 <TSCHAKeee> we even do climate and irrigation control
Apr 11 18:39:47 <alterego> Do you have a list of protocols?
Apr 11 18:40:09 <alterego> I guess it doesn't really matter, all the protocols I know are industrial anyway ..
Apr 11 18:40:15 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: yeah, on the wiki.. but the short list is, X-10, Z-Wave, Insteon, EIB/KNX, PLCBus, and a few others.
Apr 11 18:40:21 <TSCHAKeee> (yes we actually support KNX)
Apr 11 18:40:27 <alterego> Heh
Apr 11 18:40:41 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: we even have a mechanism for follow me
Apr 11 18:40:56 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: if you can emit a presence event in the house that says you've gone from one room to another
Apr 11 18:41:09 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: the system will make your media, lighting, climate, telecom, whatever, follow you to that room
Apr 11 18:41:18 <alterego> Neat,
Apr 11 18:41:19 <TSCHAKeee> turning things on/off as needed.
Apr 11 18:41:46 <TSCHAKeee> we've done it in the past with cell phones, RFID tags, 1-wire i-buttons, etc.
Apr 11 18:41:47 <alterego> I don't really have anything that could do that :)
Apr 11 18:41:57 <alterego> Except point/click on a map.
Apr 11 18:42:01 <TSCHAKeee> and yeah
Apr 11 18:42:04 <TSCHAKeee> you can do that too
Apr 11 18:42:12 <TSCHAKeee> if you change room on an orbiter with follow me enabled
Apr 11 18:42:15 <TSCHAKeee> it will emit the event
Apr 11 18:42:35 <TSCHAKeee> i want somebody to take OpenKinect
Apr 11 18:42:39 <TSCHAKeee> and OpenCV
Apr 11 18:42:45 <TSCHAKeee> and do a device for the Kinect
Apr 11 18:42:50 <TSCHAKeee> which does facial recog
Apr 11 18:43:10 <TSCHAKeee> my initial experiements with OpenCV show this is possible
Apr 11 18:43:30 <alterego> Yeah, RFID seems the most "robust" because I don't want my gf triggering an IR sensor whilst she's sleeping and a TV coming alive in the bedroom showing hard core porn.
Apr 11 18:43:44 <TSCHAKeee> haha
Apr 11 18:43:47 <TSCHAKeee> ;)
Apr 11 18:44:01 <TSCHAKeee> we do support private media btw
Apr 11 18:44:02 <alterego> TSCHAKeee: http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/Z.Kalal/tld.html
Apr 11 18:44:04 <TSCHAKeee> both in storage
Apr 11 18:44:07 <alterego> Under GPL too :)
Apr 11 18:44:15 <RST38h> alterego: Why is it set to the hardcore porn channel in the first place?
Apr 11 18:44:21 <TSCHAKeee> and in the floorplan you can mark media as private so ppl can't view it.
Apr 11 18:44:44 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: that's the other thing too..once you draw a floorplan, you can place devices on it, and use the floor plan view to control any device in your home discretely.
Apr 11 18:45:12 <ali1234> TSCHAKeee: do you have real, non-technical users?
Apr 11 18:45:31 <ali1234> i mean eg people who use it every day and don't have a nerd to keep it working on call 24 hours
Apr 11 18:45:42 <ali1234> and also have a fairly large complicated set up
Apr 11 18:45:49 <ali1234> such as the one in your demo video
Apr 11 18:46:02 <TSCHAKeee> ali1234: yes. As I have mentioned above, there are installers above who install and maintain the systems for customers.
Apr 11 18:46:13 <TSCHAKeee> just like any Crestron, AMX, Control4, etc. setup
Apr 11 18:46:43 <alterego> That predator stuff looks v. impressive
Apr 11 18:46:52 <alterego> I might play with it sometime.
Apr 11 18:47:18 <TSCHAKeee> ali1234: the complex nature of the whole problem space means ultimately that LinuxMCE will have to rely on technical competence for its installation.
Apr 11 18:47:32 <TSCHAKeee> this will change over time
Apr 11 18:47:41 <TSCHAKeee> and as I am NOT interested in having a billion users
Apr 11 18:47:58 <TSCHAKeee> this helps reinforce my intrinsic patience.
Apr 11 18:48:25 <TSCHAKeee> I work on this system for fun
Apr 11 18:48:30 <TSCHAKeee> because I want it to exist
Apr 11 18:48:39 <ali1234> yes, for installation... but can you set it up for someone, and then they'll use it day to day without calling you every five minutes?
Apr 11 18:48:42 <alterego> :)
Apr 11 18:48:45 <TSCHAKeee> ali1234: yes.
Apr 11 18:49:06 <ali1234> and has it been done?
Apr 11 18:49:18 <TSCHAKeee> yes. refer to Dianemo for an example.
Apr 11 18:49:43 <TSCHAKeee> they have close to 100 active clients under their belt atm
Apr 11 18:50:03 <ali1234> cool, UK as well
Apr 11 18:50:45 <TSCHAKeee> ali1234: talk to Andrew Herron.. tell him Thomas Cherryhomes from LinuxMCE sent you. ;) (he is also known as totallymaxed on the forums and here on IRC)
Apr 11 18:51:02 <TSCHAKeee> they've been a Pluto systems specialist since 2005.
Apr 11 18:53:47 <ali1234> TSCHAKeee: i have no need for it personally, what with living in a cave and all
Apr 11 18:54:35 <ali1234> but the ability to install and forget is really the acid test of something like this
Apr 11 18:56:43 <TSCHAKeee> ali1234: :P
Apr 11 19:28:51 * RST38h checks out LinuxMCE, finds half the menus in primal green
Apr 11 19:29:20 <RST38h> "How do you find that a program is made by geeks, for geeks, in three easy steps"
Apr 11 19:30:26 <thiago_home> is that a meegoconf talk?
Apr 11 19:30:50 <Stskeeps> it could be fun to watch RST38h do that one, actually
Apr 11 19:31:47 <TSCHAKeee> RST38h: I know
Apr 11 19:31:52 <TSCHAKeee> RST38h: I did not do the UI
Apr 11 19:31:55 <RST38h> Oh, I can definitely do a talk like that, but it will be along the standup comedy lines
Apr 11 19:31:56 <TSCHAKeee> god I know
Apr 11 19:32:01 <RST38h> TSCHAK: I know :)
Apr 11 19:32:13 <TSCHAKeee> I have been apologising for Orbiter's look
Apr 11 19:32:16 <TSCHAKeee> since 2003.
Apr 11 19:32:21 <TSCHAKeee> my throat is sore.
Apr 11 19:32:53 <berndhs> TSCHAKeee: don't apologize, explain why its better that it doesn't look good
Apr 11 19:33:25 <alterego> I think RST38h should do that talk
Apr 11 19:33:27 <TSCHAKeee> berndhs: we were busy making the back end possible
Apr 11 19:33:34 <alterego> We should have a comedy tent or someting :P
Apr 11 19:33:45 <TSCHAKeee> and making Orbiter highly retargetable
Apr 11 19:34:28 <berndhs> TSCHAKeee: sure, but Apple and M$ often tell people their limitations are a good thing when they can't get soemthing to work
Apr 11 19:34:36 <TSCHAKeee> hehehehe
Apr 11 19:34:42 <TSCHAKeee> yes, that is true
Apr 11 19:34:52 <TSCHAKeee> the old "but you don't really need copy and paste. It's a feature!"
Apr 11 19:37:02 <RST38h> "<TSCHAKeee> berndhs: we were busy making the back end possible" <-- exactly
Apr 11 19:43:16 <piotr> hi
Apr 11 19:43:23 <piotr> any Meegons here?
Apr 11 19:45:29 <ali1234> berndhs: or like "the menu and the minimize button suck anyway"
Apr 11 19:45:35 <ali1234> wait, that's gnome, nvm
Apr 11 19:45:44 <piotr> any nokians working on meego?
Apr 11 19:47:59 <Stskeeps> piotr: there's plenty, but we're all meegons, company affiliation matters little :)
Apr 11 19:49:05 <piotr> sure, I just need a nokian
Apr 11 19:49:39 <CosmoHill> would a meegon with a nokia do?
Apr 11 19:50:03 <piotr> :)
Apr 11 19:50:22 <CosmoHill> I have most of a nokia
Apr 11 19:50:59 <piotr> which is the best non-nokia device to run meego?
Apr 11 19:51:44 <Stskeeps> wetab doesn't look half bad
Apr 11 19:52:45 <CosmoHill> piotr: netbook, tablet or phone?
Apr 11 19:53:06 <piotr> phones I have plenty
Apr 11 19:53:11 <piotr> I work for nokia
Apr 11 19:53:22 <piotr> tablet or netbook could be nice
Apr 11 19:56:35 * CosmoHill finds further prove that the people who created the Vodafone website have never themselfs used it when he compares two touch screen phones that don't support touch screen
Apr 11 19:58:28 <CosmoHill> wtf, now it's just getting things very wrong
Apr 11 19:58:50 <CosmoHill> it says the HTC wild fire, doesn't have touch screen or 3G and that it has a 1.3MP camera
Apr 11 20:00:09 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: did you watch the demo?
Apr 11 20:01:15 <TSCHAKeee> hello DawnFoster
Apr 11 20:01:21 <timeless_w7ip> hi dawn
Apr 11 20:01:22 <CosmoHill> what he said
Apr 11 20:01:23 <DawnFoster> hey TSCHAKeee
Apr 11 20:01:27 <DawnFoster> hi guys
Apr 11 20:01:33 <TSCHAKeee> DawnFoster: did you get my private msg earlier?
Apr 11 20:02:00 * TSCHAKeee feels like Peter Potamus on Harvey Birdman ... "Didja get that THING i sent ya?!"
Apr 11 20:02:03 <TSCHAKeee> :P
Apr 11 20:02:08 <gabrbedd> hello timeless_w7ip
Apr 11 20:02:23 <DawnFoster> TSCHAKeee: we've been working on getting a system set up for people to apply for community devices. We're not quite ready to take applications yet
Apr 11 20:02:29 <TSCHAKeee> ok
Apr 11 20:03:36 <timeless_w7ip> grr
Apr 11 20:03:47 <timeless_w7ip> can someone please walk me through registering for the conference?
Apr 11 20:03:50 <timeless_w7ip> it's asking me for a password
Apr 11 20:03:55 <timeless_w7ip> and i'm confused
Apr 11 20:04:02 <alterego> timeless_w7ip: don't register as a speaker
Apr 11 20:04:19 * timeless_w7ip watches arnold use a minigun to take out "all of them [police in the entire city]"
Apr 11 20:05:43 <alterego> timeless_w7ip: just register as an attendee.
Apr 11 20:06:14 <gabrbedd> timeless_w7ip: yeah, what alterego said.  That was like a 5 minute speed bump for me, too.
Apr 11 20:06:24 <alterego> Me too :D
Apr 11 20:06:44 * alterego doesn't feel like so much of an idiot.
Apr 11 20:06:46 <TSCHAKeee> who says open source people can't make effective UIs?
Apr 11 20:06:50 <TSCHAKeee> :P :)
Apr 11 20:07:03 <DawnFoster> accepted speakers will get that code to register (or if they've already registered, we'll switch them to a speaker on the back end)
Apr 11 20:07:53 <alterego> I presumed the speaker bit was more corporate :) Like bill gates wanting to do a talk
Apr 11 20:08:07 <alterego> But I guess that's all done behind the scenes.
Apr 11 20:08:34 <TSCHAKeee> wouldn't that just be insult to injury...
Apr 11 20:09:27 <DawnFoster> wait, who told you he was one of the keynotes?
Apr 11 20:09:33 <DawnFoster> </humor>
Apr 11 20:10:10 <TSCHAKeee> hehehe
Apr 11 20:10:13 <alterego> :)
Apr 11 20:10:36 <alterego> I'd prefer him to Balmer. :)
Apr 11 20:10:51 <Ans5i> Balmer would be cool.. :)
Apr 11 20:11:08 <DawnFoster> developers, developers, developers
Apr 11 20:11:10 <Ans5i> developers developers developers :)
Apr 11 20:11:13 <TSCHAKeee> bouncing around like Donkey Kong going... yup
Apr 11 20:11:17 <TSCHAKeee> you got it
Apr 11 20:11:17 <Ans5i> :)
Apr 11 20:11:22 <DawnFoster> ha!
Apr 11 20:11:24 <Ans5i> *second
Apr 11 20:11:45 <alterego> developers developers developers .... *tomato!*
Apr 11 20:11:58 <TSCHAKeee> then rolling Windows 7 Phones like they were barrels at attacking developers
Apr 11 20:12:05 <alterego> Heh
Apr 11 20:12:19 <gabrbedd> maybe balmer could give CosmoHill tips on throwing chairs
Apr 11 20:12:34 * CosmoHill ears prick up
Apr 11 20:12:48 <alterego> Heh
Apr 11 20:13:14 <alterego> I registered on Intel App Up yesterday
Apr 11 20:13:52 <alterego> I'm pretty annoyed that there's no tablet sdk for linux though
Apr 11 20:14:13 <TSCHAKeee> there is, if you change the URL to read linux instead of windows
Apr 11 20:14:50 <alterego> interwesting
Apr 11 20:14:52 <DawnFoster> alterego: what Linux OS are you using?
Apr 11 20:14:55 <gabrbedd> alterego: What do you mean "no tablet sdk" ?
Apr 11 20:14:57 <alterego> I'll check that out tomorrow.
Apr 11 20:14:58 <DawnFoster> we pulled the linux sdk
Apr 11 20:15:13 <alterego> DawnFoster: ubuntu 10.10 64bit currently
Apr 11 20:15:22 <CosmoHill> DawnFoster: how come?
Apr 11 20:15:24 <gabrbedd> alterego: What's wrong with the ones on RMC?
Apr 11 20:15:29 <DawnFoster> for doing very destructive things to atilla's os
Apr 11 20:15:34 <DawnFoster> he was using kubuntu
Apr 11 20:15:43 <CosmoHill> was being the key word
Apr 11 20:15:47 <DawnFoster> it deleted a bunch of files
Apr 11 20:15:59 <julienf> hey guys :)
Apr 11 20:16:08 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: watch the demo video? :D
Apr 11 20:16:09 <julienf> long time idle....
Apr 11 20:16:09 <alterego> Though don't even have a hfp arm madde sysroot yet :)
Apr 11 20:16:20 <DawnFoster> technically, it isn't supported on kubuntu, but it shouldn't be allowed to wipe a huge chunk of the hard drive either :)
Apr 11 20:16:24 <gabrbedd> Yeah... atilla had a minor objection to the install script doing a `rm -rf /` on his puter.
Apr 11 20:16:26 <alterego> TSCHAKeee: in a minute :)
Apr 11 20:16:31 <TSCHAKeee> heheheh okay
Apr 11 20:16:33 <DawnFoster> as he shouls!
Apr 11 20:16:35 <gabrbedd> What a whiner
Apr 11 20:16:38 <DawnFoster> hey julienf
Apr 11 20:16:39 <gabrbedd> :-)
Apr 11 20:16:48 <DawnFoster> at least he was good natured about it!
Apr 11 20:16:52 <CosmoHill> was he all "nooo my por...grams"
Apr 11 20:16:59 <alterego> I'm suprised it didn't fdisk and install windows 7 :P
Apr 11 20:17:01 <gabrbedd> Yes, he was. :-)
Apr 11 20:17:33 <alterego> That, is a serious flaw :D
Apr 11 20:17:50 <DawnFoster> alterego: which is why we pulled it off the page :)
Apr 11 20:17:53 <CosmoHill> was atilla in the office or just very very angry when this happened?
Apr 11 20:18:06 <gabrbedd> DawnFoster: What do you mean by "isn't supported on kubuntu" ?  It's still ubuntu.
Apr 11 20:18:31 <DawnFoster> gabrbedd: meaning we only do full qa on a few distros
Apr 11 20:18:34 <CosmoHill> isn't it ironic that there isn't a linux SDK for a linux platform?
Apr 11 20:18:53 <TSCHAKeee> ssshhhh, it's not Linux, it's MeeGo
Apr 11 20:18:56 <DawnFoster> something was different enough that it worked on ubuntu and did something terrible on kubuntu
Apr 11 20:19:00 <TSCHAKeee> we don't wanna scare off the fragile windows developers
Apr 11 20:19:11 <DawnFoster> technically, the SDK is fine
Apr 11 20:19:19 <gabrbedd> DawnFoster: k, thanks.
Apr 11 20:19:19 <DawnFoster> it was the installer that was borked
Apr 11 20:19:38 <CosmoHill> so I may install the SDK but lose pro...grams
Apr 11 20:19:50 <timeless_w7ip> rm -rtf / ? anyone have a video of this? :)
Apr 11 20:20:04 <CosmoHill> timeless_w7ip: blah
Apr 11 20:20:10 <CosmoHill> rm -rvf / &
Apr 11 20:20:52 <gabrbedd> A ${HOME}-less SDK.  A root-less existence.
Apr 11 20:20:55 <CosmoHill> if you're gonna empty someone's hard drive you might as well empty their bows too
Apr 11 20:21:14 <alterego> This is why I generally build my own "sdks"
Apr 11 20:21:33 <DawnFoster> alterego: what - you don't trust us? :)
Apr 11 20:21:53 <gabrbedd> I didn't install the Intel SDK.  What was special about it?
Apr 11 20:22:10 <DawnFoster> it had a pretty installer, I think
Apr 11 20:22:16 <timeless_w7ip> gah
Apr 11 20:22:21 * timeless_w7ip kicks the registration form
Apr 11 20:22:29 <timeless_w7ip> i entered dates first and then picked the room type
Apr 11 20:22:40 <timeless_w7ip> when i picked the room type, it whiped out my dates!
Apr 11 20:22:49 <gabrbedd> DawnFoster: hahaha, nice...
Apr 11 20:22:52 <timeless_w7ip> grr
Apr 11 20:22:58 <timeless_w7ip> i can't check in on saturday night!?
Apr 11 20:23:04 <alterego> DawnFoster: well, it's not that, I just like being able to customise things :)
Apr 11 20:23:09 <gabrbedd> DawnFoster: Anyway... that's what I suspected.
Apr 11 20:23:29 <DawnFoster> of course, you should ask an sdk developer in case I'm just making things up
Apr 11 20:23:55 <timeless_w7ip> grr
Apr 11 20:23:56 <DawnFoster> timeless_w7ip: you should be able to check in on Sat
Apr 11 20:23:56 <timeless_w7ip> wtf
Apr 11 20:24:02 <timeless_w7ip> dawn: i'm trying
Apr 11 20:24:07 <DawnFoster> assuming you are selecting the hyatt
Apr 11 20:24:08 <timeless_w7ip> i picked standard king
Apr 11 20:24:20 <gabrbedd> Well, I figured it was just marketing-fu to attract devs, that it's more or less the same thing avil on RMC.
Apr 11 20:24:21 <timeless_w7ip> i can pick 20th or 22nd
Apr 11 20:24:39 <timeless_w7ip> if i pick 20th, my only checkout is 21st
Apr 11 20:25:04 <DawnFoster> did you try with double or another room type?
Apr 11 20:25:08 * timeless_w7ip thinks that means there aren't any kings available on the 21st
Apr 11 20:25:10 <berndhs> I said I will live in the parks, don't need accomodations
Apr 11 20:25:23 <DawnFoster> timeless_w7ip: that's my guess
Apr 11 20:25:27 <timeless_w7ip> yeah, i'll select double-queens
Apr 11 20:25:33 <DawnFoster> berndhs: hard core!
Apr 11 20:25:35 <timeless_w7ip> it's kinda annoying
Apr 11 20:25:48 <timeless_w7ip> hey, i've already done sleep in front of the library in sunny california
Apr 11 20:25:59 <timeless_w7ip> sprinklers included
Apr 11 20:26:04 <timeless_w7ip> i'd rather not do it again
Apr 11 20:26:13 <timeless_w7ip> (it wasn't bad, but i was like 10 years younger)
Apr 11 20:26:20 <DawnFoster> that's not how I want to wake up
Apr 11 20:26:22 <alterego> TSCHAKeee: really don't like the video prompts in the installer :P
Apr 11 20:26:48 <Ans5i> There is btw still room for meegathon teams in meego-summit-fi :)
Apr 11 20:26:49 <Ans5i> http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/04/meego-summit-fi-appsstream-involved/
Apr 11 20:26:59 <DawnFoster> as always, you can file bugs / feature requests against the sdk installer :)
Apr 11 20:31:04 <timeless_w7ip> dawn: ok, i've registered, please flip me at your convenience, but before someone books a hotel
Apr 11 20:31:07 <timeless_w7ip> i'm sure i can't afford it
Apr 11 20:31:29 <timeless_w7ip> part of the reason for the library sleeping arrangement was that hotels in the area were 200$/night
Apr 11 20:31:38 <timeless_w7ip> and my credit card couldn't handle that
Apr 11 20:32:14 * timeless_w7ip doesn't think it's any better today, plus that was santa clara, not san francisco which certainly costs more
Apr 11 20:47:13 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: yes...we know.
Apr 11 20:48:17 <TSCHAKeee> that was done by the romanian team
Apr 11 20:48:25 <TSCHAKeee> (aka development team #2)
Apr 11 20:49:04 <alterego> Well, watched the whole thing now, very impressive :)
Apr 11 20:49:58 * CosmoHill throws steve balmer at VMware
Apr 11 20:50:47 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: thank you.
Apr 11 20:51:16 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: we've just needed UI people. I can do it, and have the credentials for it...but I have my hands all over the code...no time...
Apr 11 20:52:04 <alterego> Well, I'd like to get involved.
Apr 11 20:52:31 <alterego> And even if you don't have the time to do UI code, you can obviously help with the artistic input and overall UX design
Apr 11 20:56:02 <alterego> In fact, it'd be good to have some kind of specification
Apr 11 20:56:29 <alterego> And get everyone involved in building it.
Apr 11 21:11:13 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: right now, I am trying to get people interested by building models and toys for various parts of the system so we can try out new ideas.
Apr 11 21:12:02 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: one aspect I really want to keep of the on screen orbiter we have now... the media is always priority..the UI overlays on top, and should try to be as out of the way as possible, while still being visible for urgent things.
Apr 11 21:16:38 <alterego> TSCHAKeee: yeah, I like that idea as well :)
Apr 11 21:16:57 <alterego> TSCHAKeee: what ideas are you most interested in expanding in to?
Apr 11 21:17:01 <TSCHAKeee> one sec
Apr 11 21:22:46 <CosmoHill> he's alive \o.
Apr 11 21:23:04 <CosmoHill> aaahh, wtf is my other arm
Apr 11 21:23:12 * TSCHAKeee is wrestling with his bank
Apr 11 21:23:26 <alterego> CosmoHill: that's luck :P
Apr 11 21:23:34 <CosmoHill> TSCHAKeee: I can just imagine a man punching an ATM
Apr 11 21:25:45 <TSCHAKeee> oh for fuck's sake
Apr 11 21:25:59 <TSCHAKeee> bank of america
Apr 11 21:26:10 <alterego> Heh
Apr 11 21:26:11 <TSCHAKeee> can't transfer funds, because website is broken
Apr 11 21:26:23 <TSCHAKeee> call on phone to transfer funds, the phone IVR is broken
Apr 11 21:26:42 <gabrbedd> lcuk: welcome back!
Apr 11 21:26:46 <TSCHAKeee> call to transfer to a customer service representative, after they transfer me, operator says "call can't be completed after this time"
Apr 11 21:26:52 <TSCHAKeee> WHAT THE $(@#(%@#%(#@ ?!
Apr 11 21:27:05 <piotr> can we keep the chat ontopic please?
Apr 11 21:27:06 * TSCHAKeee sets his bank card on fire
Apr 11 21:27:30 <TSCHAKeee> piotr: I would be concerned, if we were actually talking about something.
Apr 11 21:27:36 <TSCHAKeee> piotr: but we aren't.
Apr 11 21:27:43 <TSCHAKeee> piotr: so relax.
Apr 11 21:27:53 <CosmoHill> says the person going ape
Apr 11 21:27:58 <TSCHAKeee> soak in the irony
Apr 11 21:28:01 <alterego> Heh
Apr 11 21:28:01 <TSCHAKeee> ;)
Apr 11 21:28:04 <CosmoHill> :)
Apr 11 21:28:19 <CosmoHill> the fun kinda irony, not The Office kind
Apr 11 21:29:13 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: to answer your question, we have a fairly complete UI..the problem is... it's ...really...clumsy in spots...and it was completed long before anyone saw an iPhone...
Apr 11 21:29:16 <alterego> I don't think the topic has been on topic for about 5 hours :)
Apr 11 21:29:34 <vldcnst> what is the topic?
Apr 11 21:29:51 <CosmoHill> vldcnst: http://black-flag.co.uk/Picture 13.png
Apr 11 21:30:22 <CosmoHill> but seriously, it's pretty much anything MeeGo or MeeGo ish
Apr 11 21:30:37 <vldcnst> CosmoHill: is it!?
Apr 11 21:30:41 <alterego> Annd we can expect MeeGo powered ATMs any day now :)
Apr 11 21:30:59 <ali1234> srsly?
Apr 11 21:31:06 <alterego> No
Apr 11 21:31:12 <alterego> Maybe one day though :P
Apr 11 21:31:14 <CosmoHill> alterego: ones that take offence to Kubuntu users
Apr 11 21:31:19 <alterego> Heh
Apr 11 21:31:32 <alterego> He's kubuntu, zero his funds! :D
Apr 11 21:31:52 <CosmoHill> "what a kind person, donating all his money to cancer research UK"
Apr 11 21:31:58 <alterego> Hah
Apr 11 21:32:27 <CosmoHill> hmm, either I can hear a distant plane or one hell of a pidgin
Apr 11 21:32:50 <alterego> Or your neighbours sex toy
Apr 11 21:33:22 * CosmoHill throws his badly build and even worse repaired Nokia 6220 Classic at alterego 
Apr 11 21:34:52 <TSCHAKeee> before ya slam pidgins, be aware, we may have to use them for packet transport one day
Apr 11 21:34:53 <TSCHAKeee> after the apocalypse
Apr 11 21:34:53 <TSCHAKeee> and mad max roams the streets
Apr 11 21:34:53 <TSCHAKeee> looking for
Apr 11 21:34:53 <TSCHAKeee> the night....rider....
Apr 11 21:34:54 <CosmoHill> aussie V8 verses camp american, should be interesting
Apr 11 21:35:56 <CosmoHill> five bucks says the V8 is top
Apr 11 21:36:16 <alterego> Yeah, America don't make good cars
Apr 11 21:36:42 <berndhs> also the BBC car guys are really biased :P
Apr 11 21:37:10 <CosmoHill> I've seen some "international" cars
Apr 11 21:37:25 <alterego> Hahah, yeah
Apr 11 21:37:27 <CosmoHill> the american version looks like the ugly sister than lives under the staircase of the pretty european
Apr 11 21:38:04 <CosmoHill> take the honda civic for example
Apr 11 21:38:13 <alterego> Which one?
Apr 11 21:38:30 <alterego> Honda are pretty epic though ..
Apr 11 21:38:58 <CosmoHill> or the ford escort
Apr 11 21:39:07 <alterego> awful ..
Apr 11 21:39:09 <CosmoHill> alterego: latest one
Apr 11 21:39:20 <alterego> Never liked ford
Apr 11 21:39:46 <CosmoHill> I was mean until my best friend got me into Focuses
Apr 11 21:39:47 <TSCHAKeee> euro cars, huh? ;) and the..uh....Citroen? ;)
Apr 11 21:40:03 <alterego> TSCHAKeee: The french make crap cars too :P
Apr 11 21:40:13 <CosmoHill> I was thinking of european models of internation cars
Apr 11 21:40:15 <alterego> Well, except the 2CV :)
Apr 11 21:41:04 <berndhs> yeah the 2CV, there was a proper performance car
Apr 11 21:41:04 <CosmoHill> the french drive like itanians on modpeds, just crazy and all over the place
Apr 11 21:41:05 * CosmoHill puts the broom away
Apr 11 21:41:15 <GAN900> BBC's opinions about American cars are useless.
Apr 11 21:41:34 <TSCHAKeee> thou shalt not make fun of top gear
Apr 11 21:41:38 <alterego> Top Gear is the tits :P
Apr 11 21:41:50 <GAN900> They're immature children.
Apr 11 21:41:52 <berndhs> i'm not british, I can make fun of them :)
Apr 11 21:42:14 <alterego> That's why they're great :P
Apr 11 21:42:29 <alterego> It's like a much better jack ass.
Apr 11 21:42:40 <TSCHAKeee> I saw jack-ass 3D
Apr 11 21:42:45 <TSCHAKeee> and went...yup...jumped the shark
Apr 11 21:42:52 <GAN900> I enjoy them immensely, but they're children whose documentary diligence should often be questioned. :P
Apr 11 21:43:17 <alterego> I've never been too into it, could go out into town to watch a bunch of guys do stupid crap :)
Apr 11 21:43:29 <berndhs> oh they are very entertaining, its just a lot of whay they say about the cars is nonsense
Apr 11 21:44:06 <alterego> s/nonsense/opinion/ ;)
Apr 11 21:44:10 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: ultimately what we're looking to try and accomplish for this first pass is an on screen TV target, and a tablet target...which we can then repurpose to other stuff as we can.
Apr 11 21:44:34 <TSCHAKeee> keeping in mind that even the tablet targets can view media too.
Apr 11 21:45:13 <alterego> Yes, of course :)
Apr 11 21:45:14 <TSCHAKeee> trying to bring in nice things like kinetic scrolling
Apr 11 21:45:22 <GAN900> I'm frightened by the possibility that many people will have confused Florida with Alabama during their first US tour.
Apr 11 21:45:25 <TSCHAKeee> so we can get rid of stupid scrollbars and buttons
Apr 11 21:45:33 <alterego> Yeah
Apr 11 21:45:38 * GAN900 doubts most Europeans appreciate exactly how different US states are.
Apr 11 21:46:06 <ali1234> i think you'd be quite wrong in that assumption
Apr 11 21:46:12 <alterego> Yeah
Apr 11 21:46:17 <alterego> I thought that was quite obvious :P
Apr 11 21:46:34 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: but the big thing here that we're trying to bring in with QML, is the ability for PEOPLE NOT WORKING ON this thing 24-7 to be able to make their own UIs
Apr 11 21:46:35 <Corsac> us states, that looks a bit redondant
Apr 11 21:46:54 <TSCHAKeee> because our current designer software is....how shall i put this delicately? AWKWARD.
Apr 11 21:47:06 <alterego> :)
Apr 11 21:47:18 <TSCHAKeee> and even that doesn't do justice to the weirdness
Apr 11 21:47:19 <alterego> TSCHAKeee: so have you started working on Qml integration?
Apr 11 21:50:29 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: not yet, I want to see what's possible from a UI perspective, and then start building an engine...building back from the UI to the backend, changing things as neede
Apr 11 21:50:29 <TSCHAKeee> we already have a tremendous architecture in place
Apr 11 21:50:30 <TSCHAKeee> so the real work is working on a replacement window controller class, and a QML engine...a dev is working on the former, and i am guiding him.
Apr 11 21:50:32 <alterego> TSCHAKeee: okay, well I'll get your stuff working in a vm and work on my own adaptation of the UX this weekend :)
Apr 11 21:50:32 <TSCHAKeee> okay. thing to note. you'll want to put two virtual NICs in the VM
Apr 11 21:50:32 <alterego> Okay
Apr 11 21:50:32 <TSCHAKeee> because the system likes to set itself up as a gateway/router/firewall/central everything.
Apr 11 21:50:32 <TSCHAKeee> ok.
Apr 11 21:50:32 <alterego> Does it do DHCP?
Apr 11 21:50:32 <TSCHAKeee> yes
Apr 11 21:50:32 <alterego> As a server?
Apr 11 21:50:32 <TSCHAKeee> that's how we deal with network detection
Apr 11 21:50:32 <TSCHAKeee> yes
Apr 11 21:50:32 <alterego> Cool
Apr 11 21:50:33 <TSCHAKeee> we built it as the ultimate drop in
Apr 11 21:51:16 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: install Kubuntu 10.04, and use the installer from here: http://svn.linuxmce.org/svn/branches/LinuxMCE-0810/src/new-installer/
Apr 11 21:51:39 <alterego> I see you've not made a release in a while :)
Apr 11 21:51:43 <TSCHAKeee> just cut and paste that somewhere... pre-install-from-repo.sh ... mce-install.sh.. thenp ost-instal..sh ....
Apr 11 21:52:03 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: no, we've been working our asses off trying to transition from a vertical company to a completely community dev process
Apr 11 21:52:07 <alterego> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13038481
Apr 11 21:52:21 <alterego> Cool
Apr 11 21:52:22 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: literally imagine a rich uncle dying, leaving you a mansion, with no help or staff, with you just having the key
Apr 11 21:52:33 <alterego> :)
Apr 11 21:52:43 <TSCHAKeee> alterego: and a handful of us learning how to build the thing from nothing.
Apr 11 21:52:46 <TSCHAKeee> :)
Apr 11 21:52:54 <TSCHAKeee> it took us a while
Apr 11 21:53:45 <alterego> "Until now, most devices have used chips designed by Apple and Cambridge-based Arm Holdings."
Apr 11 21:54:01 <alterego> I really don't like that sentence ..
Apr 11 21:54:34 <GAN900> Source?
Apr 11 21:55:02 <ali1234> the bbc article i guess
Apr 11 21:55:11 <alterego> Yeah, 'tis'
Apr 11 21:55:25 <ali1234> the apple chips are arm core too right?
Apr 11 21:55:32 <CosmoHill> yes
Apr 11 21:55:35 <alterego> ali1234: that's my problem with the statement ;)
Apr 11 21:55:47 <CosmoHill> Apple have their own modified design that they produce
Apr 11 21:55:53 <alterego> Sure,
Apr 11 21:55:59 <ali1234> yeah but it's not the same
Apr 11 21:56:00 <CosmoHill> still ARM tho
Apr 11 21:56:14 <alterego> But that's like saying TIs OMAP isn't ARM
Apr 11 21:56:25 <ali1234> still, you can't expect journalists to understand the difference between ip-cores and real chips
Apr 11 21:56:39 <alterego> ali1234: I'd hope they do when they're writing an article about the subject ;)
Apr 11 21:56:40 <GAN900> Especially BBC ones. :P
Apr 11 21:56:46 <alterego> GAN900: Hah :D
Apr 11 21:56:59 <alterego> Yeah, I bet it was a joke just to piss some Cambridge people off :P
Apr 11 21:57:01 <ali1234> if you read it as "one chip designed by apple and arm" then it makes sense
Apr 11 21:57:20 <ali1234> cos the apple chip also has parts in it designed by cambridge
Apr 11 21:57:23 <CosmoHill> no were in the article does it mention the architecture difference
Apr 11 21:57:27 <ali1234> and ipad is the most popular after all
Apr 11 21:58:01 <CosmoHill> that reminds me of people buying cheap £150 ARM netbooks and asking if they can run Windows 7 starter and stuff on it
Apr 11 21:58:18 <ali1234> "Currently, chipsets based on Arm's designs, such as Nvidia's popular Tegra processors, are unable to run Windows."
Apr 11 21:58:22 <alterego> Well, they go on to talk about "chipsets based on ARM designs, such as Nvidia's popular Tegra processors"
Apr 11 21:58:29 <alterego> Oh, hah :)
Apr 11 21:58:42 <CosmoHill> oh wait it does support ARM
Apr 11 21:58:45 <TSCHAKeee> Apple has done a fantastic snowjob
Apr 11 21:58:45 <CosmoHill> *meantion
Apr 11 21:58:50 <TSCHAKeee> convincing the world
Apr 11 21:58:55 <TSCHAKeee> that they invent all their own stuff.
Apr 11 21:59:00 <alterego> Yeah ..
Apr 11 21:59:16 <CosmoHill> I have a Apple Powermac somewhere with Intel and Sun Microsystem chips
Apr 11 21:59:18 <alterego> I'd just be interested to know where this ignorance comes from :)
Apr 11 21:59:18 <TSCHAKeee> i mean, wow
Apr 11 21:59:28 <TSCHAKeee> reality distortion field is globally maintained
Apr 11 21:59:43 <ali1234> alterego: nobody cares if apple designed it themselves or not
Apr 11 21:59:53 <CosmoHill> ali1234: apple do
Apr 11 22:00:02 <CosmoHill> says so on the back of everything they sell
Apr 11 22:00:04 <alterego> I do
Apr 11 22:00:12 <ali1234> the ipad is a good device
Apr 11 22:00:17 <alterego> And all the Apple fanboys do
Apr 11 22:00:25 <TSCHAKeee> I will never forget a friend who was asked to speak internally at apple to a group of engineers
Apr 11 22:00:26 <CosmoHill> "designed by apple in cali, built by child labor in china"
Apr 11 22:00:30 <ali1234> i wouldn't buy one
Apr 11 22:00:37 <TSCHAKeee> but was turned away when he refused to re-do his entire presentation using apple software.
Apr 11 22:00:40 <ali1234> but i'm not exactly the average consumer
Apr 11 22:00:50 <alterego> I'm always reading articles about someone arguing with an Apple fanboy about the so called heritage of the apple A(n) designs
Apr 11 22:01:38 <alterego> Like: "The A5 is so much more powerful than the Cortex A9"
Apr 11 22:01:39 <TSCHAKeee> nobody realizes that Apple's design department really consists of ONE guy with the permission to think for himself
Apr 11 22:01:43 <TSCHAKeee> Johnathan Ive
Apr 11 22:05:21 <GAN900> CosmoHill, better than subsistence farming. :)
Apr 11 22:05:43 <alterego> I'm hitting the hay now, g'night folks.
Apr 11 22:08:14 * CosmoHill wonders when ford will release a 4wd RS
Apr 11 22:09:24 * CosmoHill looks at the euro ford focus, then the american one then slaps the american one
Apr 11 22:10:47 * gabrbedd throws a Toyota Prius at CosmoHill
Apr 11 22:11:15 <GAN900> Stupid EPA and NHTA and all the other damn Federal TLAs
Apr 11 22:11:17 * TSCHAKeee read that as a Toyota Primus
Apr 11 22:11:18 * CosmoHill returns it to the enviroment by droping it in the sea
Apr 11 22:11:23 <GAN900> Busybody government parasites.
Apr 11 22:11:26 <TSCHAKeee> I can see the commercials now
Apr 11 22:11:38 <CosmoHill> we seem to have hit a nerve, and a sea lion
Apr 11 22:11:41 <TSCHAKeee> my name is mud! :)
Apr 11 22:12:13 <GAN900> CosmoHill, don't litter.
Apr 11 22:13:14 <GAN900> I hadn't realized the EU had passed an average carbon emissions requirement until I saw that horrifying Aston subcompact on Top Gear.
Apr 11 22:13:37 <GAN900> How does it feel having unelected officials from other countries meddling in your economy?
Apr 11 22:14:06 <thiago_home> I thought the entire european parliament was elected
Apr 11 22:14:07 <ali1234> euro MPs are elected
Apr 11 22:14:13 <ali1234> nice try
Apr 11 22:14:47 <berndhs> european commision isn't elected, and they have a lot of control
Apr 11 22:15:24 <ali1234> so do the unelected lobbyists everywhere
Apr 11 22:15:42 <berndhs> yeah but not in a formal way like the comission
Apr 11 22:15:55 <ali1234> in some ways that is worse
Apr 11 22:16:24 <berndhs> nah the comission is a bad idea, no way around it
Apr 11 22:16:36 <berndhs> there are lobbyists in europe too of course
Apr 11 22:17:51 <GAN900> The core of the issue is deaper than that, in that they have that much power in the first place. :P
Apr 11 22:20:13 <berndhs> yeah if they would just listen to us, we could fix it :)
Apr 11 22:27:48 <GAN900> I'd make a better wizened elder any day of the week. *g*
Apr 11 23:36:22 <gabrbedd> GAN900: More lake a wisenheimer.... :-p
Apr 11 23:49:12 <GeneralAntilles> gabrbedd, yeah, 'xactly. :P
Apr 12 01:34:22 <Bird> Hi ,is there a way in which I can utilize to detect meego platfrom in Qt?thanks in advance
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