**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 27 02:59:58 2011 Apr 27 03:01:24 meego seem to have improved a lot the past year...tried it a little when it first came out. Apr 27 03:05:54 i need to manually enable middle button scrolling from commandline everytime i starup, where would be the best place to auto run the commands at startup? Apr 27 03:06:53 at the moment you can put stuff in rc.local Apr 27 03:07:09 dont know if that will work for future versions Apr 27 03:07:24 thats assuming it is system wide Apr 27 03:10:32 k, will try Apr 27 03:10:34 ty Apr 27 03:10:50 im looking at their extlinux.conf Apr 27 03:10:58 says timeout 1 sec here Apr 27 03:11:08 and menu hidden Apr 27 03:11:23 so that doesnt give you much of a shot :P Apr 27 03:11:31 ye, i increased it Apr 27 03:11:53 and comment out the hidden until you know what it does Apr 27 03:12:51 i could not see gstreamer good/bad/ugly in zypper search....no coodecs awailable? Apr 27 03:13:01 dont know Apr 27 03:20:02 berndhs: espen77 I think I saw somewhere that the timeout is x10 ms. Apr 27 03:20:22 is it ? could be Apr 27 03:20:24 So a timeout of 1 is 10 ms. (or maybe its 100 ms or something) Apr 27 03:20:42 Anyway... it's some factor of 10. :-) Apr 27 03:20:42 it goes really fast, they want quick boot Apr 27 03:21:10 and they like the 1st commandment, thou shalt now have any others Apr 27 03:22:19 Thou shalt have no other OS's before MeeGo. Apr 27 03:22:25 And the number of thy counting shall be 1 Apr 27 03:22:36 no more no less Apr 27 03:22:38 yeah thats the one Apr 27 03:22:49 3 is RIGHT OUT! Apr 27 03:22:51 :P Apr 27 03:23:26 Thou shalt not count to 0, excepting that thou proceedest unto 1. Apr 27 03:24:31 lol...unfortunently it is hard to escape win totually Apr 27 03:24:46 sometimes Apr 27 03:24:58 I've been Windows fee in my daily routine since 1995. Apr 27 03:25:24 I used my Amiga and NeXT machines longer than I used PCs with Microsoft software on them for daily use :P Apr 27 03:26:06 i too only use it ocationally, Apr 27 03:27:11 i make win installers for some of my apps, for completeness Apr 27 03:27:13 * gabrbedd loves deleting Windows partitions and pealing the stickers off the lappy. Apr 27 03:27:46 shrinking windows partitions is fun too Apr 27 03:28:10 when it works. Apr 27 03:28:39 if it doesnt you can delete them :P Apr 27 03:29:01 :-) Apr 27 03:54:59 good night Apr 27 05:14:13 interesting , http://www.paneve.com/Technology Apr 27 05:15:36 404? Apr 27 05:16:12 click on Technology Apr 27 05:16:20 too early in morning Apr 27 05:16:21 :P Apr 27 05:16:48 To summarize, it is another company trying to make a flexible video controller Apr 27 05:17:02 Or video processor, to be exact Apr 27 06:06:20 * Cherrot Hello everyone~ Apr 27 06:07:36 hello Apr 27 06:56:14 is it just me or has the LF gone mailing-list berserk ? Apr 27 06:56:24 I got 8 monthly newsletters so fatr Apr 27 06:56:49 i only got one Apr 27 07:39:50 w Apr 27 07:40:38 err:) Apr 27 08:15:39 Morning, all Apr 27 08:15:46 morn jafa Apr 27 08:15:47 +f Apr 27 08:23:12 \o morning Apr 27 08:26:08 moorning indeed Apr 27 08:30:32 Just got an email from the hyatt regency telling me the room is booked. Apr 27 08:30:41 like, to you? Apr 27 08:30:41 :P Apr 27 08:30:56 This is what I'm wondering :S Apr 27 08:30:57 any updates on speakers getting a confirmation mail ? Apr 27 08:31:05 * bilboed is on the schedule but hasn't received any mail Apr 27 08:31:16 bilboed: if you haven't, contact meego-events@ mailing list Apr 27 08:32:20 Yeah there was a cockup I believe Apr 27 08:32:34 bilboed: if you're on the list, you're in a really good spot no matter what :) Apr 27 08:32:37 * alterego still needs to raise funds for sf :S Apr 27 08:32:50 Stskeeps, sure sure :) Apr 27 08:33:08 Anyone want to lend me a 1k? :) Apr 27 08:33:08 * lbt thought ... WTF ... arriving on the 5th!!! Apr 27 08:33:38 5th? Apr 27 08:33:38 alterego: I have loads of 1k (and 10k) aswell ... what wattage? Apr 27 08:33:38 :P Apr 27 08:33:48 arriving on 05/20/2011 Apr 27 08:33:53 ah Apr 27 08:33:59 in teeny tiny type... Apr 27 08:34:01 meh Apr 27 08:34:12 lbt: 1k GBP :P Apr 27 08:34:17 ah.... Apr 27 08:34:36 sure... what rate would suit ? 10% daily compounding? Apr 27 08:34:42 Hah Apr 27 08:35:08 0% apr but free rails development services? :) Apr 27 08:35:10 * lbt would use a CC contract if it helps ... Apr 27 08:35:21 alterego: watch out what you say.. Apr 27 08:35:21 :P Apr 27 08:35:23 hmm Apr 27 08:35:31 * lbt does some math.... Apr 27 08:39:12 Might see if I can get a short term loan Apr 27 08:39:29 when i was a student, banks were begging me to create debt Apr 27 08:39:34 that scared me Apr 27 08:39:35 :P Apr 27 08:39:44 Heh Apr 27 08:41:51 let me point out the short movie "money as debt" Apr 27 08:42:01 worth to spend 10 min watching it Apr 27 08:43:37 Might ask qgil if Nokia can subsidise me :D Apr 27 08:44:00 Do Nokia do loans? :D Apr 27 08:44:11 not really, you'd like to avoid that situation :) Apr 27 08:45:32 I could offer them the rights to my qml dialer :D Apr 27 09:03:46 hi all. I'm installing the sdk and at the point of installing a runtime. What are the options with "-sda-"? Apr 27 09:31:53 morning Apr 27 09:32:46 Aloha Apr 27 11:08:02 <_|Nix|_> Hey! What's the root password on meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.1.99.4.20110426.4.img? Apr 27 11:08:08 meego, probably Apr 27 11:08:12 <_|Nix|_> Tried that. Apr 27 11:08:22 <_|Nix|_> Does su - even work? Apr 27 11:08:34 su - will still require a password Apr 27 11:08:50 try "sudo -s" Apr 27 11:08:50 <_|Nix|_> OK, I must've typed it wrong last time, cuz it worked this time. Apr 27 12:07:22 Hello ! Apr 27 12:07:29 lo Khertan_ :) Apr 27 12:07:50 Stskeeps: what's new ? Apr 27 12:08:07 not much, having fun with the DE work Apr 27 12:08:09 you? Apr 27 12:08:20 not much too :) Apr 27 12:08:49 still playing with python Apr 27 12:09:07 try to fix last bug in khweeteur-experimental Apr 27 12:10:06 :) Apr 27 12:12:52 about the DE edition, are you doing it as a hobby ? i mean not beeing employed to work on it ? Apr 27 12:13:23 Khertan_: we're a bigger bunch of nokia people, subcontractors etc working on it paid and some volunteers Apr 27 12:15:20 Stskeeps, sounds like pretty serious business Apr 27 12:15:32 i wouldn't call it business Apr 27 12:15:32 :P Apr 27 12:15:57 Stskeeps: yep i know that you aren't only one :) but did you personnally are you a paid volunteers for your work ? Apr 27 12:16:27 Khertan_: i've been paid since starting as maemo.org distmaster Apr 27 12:16:54 oh ... maybe i should follow a bit more the maemo news ... :) Apr 27 12:17:14 well, short-lived job Apr 27 12:17:14 :P Apr 27 12:17:19 meego came along and there i went Apr 27 12:17:37 yeah ... Apr 27 12:17:57 did you try DE yet? Apr 27 12:18:29 and which meego which will not be delivered now as a experimental product for Nokia it could be worse in futur :( Apr 27 12:18:37 the DE is wonderful. honestly, I didn't believe it until I saw if for myself :) Apr 27 12:19:03 Stskeeps: i ve try a previous version where i didn't pass the loading of the kernel Apr 27 12:19:07 :) Apr 27 12:19:12 Khertan_: ah, you should try the alpha release Apr 27 12:19:20 hum ... i ll so Apr 27 12:19:21 :) Apr 27 12:19:21 I can give it more testing when it'll have the ability to use a SIM with a PIN code Apr 27 12:20:01 and in MeeGo DE, even the error messages are very funny Apr 27 12:20:32 this is installed same way as before... unpack and dd to sd card then boot with u-boot? Apr 27 12:20:38 yes Apr 27 12:20:48 ok going to try it Apr 27 12:21:08 Stskeeps, when is the PIN entry option coming? Apr 27 12:21:13 oh wait... no download allowance left Apr 27 12:21:19 Venemo: oh, right, i had an email to write Apr 27 12:22:00 wahou ... difficult to found something with the search feature on the meego wiki Apr 27 12:22:14 wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition Apr 27 12:23:51 Is sim code support for isi in ofono yet? Apr 27 12:24:01 i just pinged the developer who made a UI Apr 27 12:24:12 Stskeeps: on http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/ReleaseProcess there is only the daily image :) Apr 27 12:24:28 Khertan_: yeah Apr 27 12:24:35 grab the one in the top of DeveloperEdition Apr 27 12:24:36 it actually works Apr 27 12:26:48 eta 2h45min ... ouch Apr 27 12:27:09 we even have it on a fast mirror :P Apr 27 12:27:43 Stskeeps: the problem is where am i :) Apr 27 12:28:01 Stskeeps: the connection is slow, overcharged, and unstable Apr 27 13:05:43 [14:57] Venemo: Intel have gone back to the moblin name IIRC Apr 27 13:05:45 is that true? Apr 27 13:05:51 no Apr 27 13:05:57 in fact, they closed the mailing lists Apr 27 13:06:13 what mailing lists? Apr 27 13:06:18 moblin ones Apr 27 13:06:22 ah :) Apr 27 13:06:24 thanks Apr 27 13:06:38 and the moblin irc channel Apr 27 13:06:39 it's all meego Apr 27 13:06:51 ah, thanks :) Apr 27 13:10:31 I have to go, will be back later Apr 27 13:21:04 X-Fade, Hi, I'm trying get pyside compiled to armv8 on Meego public OBS but I did see any target to meego 1.2. There is any trick to enable that, or this is not available yet? Apr 27 13:21:38 renato: MeeGo:Trunk is a 1.2 snapshot. Apr 27 13:22:21 from last week. Apr 27 13:22:23 renato: pyside compiles on Debian's armhf in case :-) Apr 27 13:23:17 X-Fade, but I got a lot of unresolvable dependencies when trying compile pyside, like: nothing provides python-devel, nothing provides python-setuptools-devel, nothing provides rpm, nothing provides binutils, nothing provides gcc, nothing provides glibc, nothing provides rpm-build, nothing provides libtool Apr 27 13:23:28 X-Fade: armv8el / armv7hl imported too? Apr 27 13:23:41 Stskeeps: Yes. Apr 27 13:23:47 hm Apr 27 13:24:25 on the main OBS all works fine Apr 27 13:24:35 renato: repo url please Apr 27 13:24:42 renato: Ah, you build against MeeGo:1.2, right? Apr 27 13:24:52 renato: That still needs a prjconf it seems. Apr 27 13:26:35 Stskeeps, this is from the main OBS: http://download.meego.com/live/home:/renatofilho/Trunk/ Apr 27 13:26:43 renato: You build against the wrong repo. meego_current_core is old. Apr 27 13:27:29 X-Fade, which one is the correct? Apr 27 13:28:06 I did not see any meego 1.2 repository on the list Apr 27 13:29:03 renato: I added the correct one to your project. Apr 27 13:29:48 X-Fade, yeah Thanks Apr 27 13:35:03 you know what would be good? if the http://download.meego.com/ build images would have the md5sum on the directory too Apr 27 13:35:41 that would be great, whenever I mirror a meego image I always provide the md5sum Apr 27 13:35:41 http://download.meego.com/trunk-daily/builds/trunk/latest/images/meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail/meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.1.99.4.20110425.7.img didn't even boot for me and I don't know if the error is in the download or the image it self Apr 27 13:37:13 there's anonymous rsync , you can use that to verify the file Apr 27 13:37:27 and or course, bittorrent would be nice too Apr 27 13:37:58 (says Miss-I-Will-Download-This-Bloody-Image-For-Three-Hours-Over-HTTP) Apr 27 13:39:35 sorry, four hours Apr 27 13:39:39 :-C Apr 27 13:45:59 How did we decide to hack the nametags to include nicks? Apr 27 13:47:09 GAN900: vote? flipped coin? Apr 27 13:48:34 gabrbedd, i.e., what's the procedure for getting your nick to show up on the nametag. Apr 27 13:48:59 ask on meego-events@? Apr 27 13:57:05 GAN900: My IRC name shows up on the attendee list Apr 27 13:57:12 It is probably used from there? Apr 27 13:58:58 Dunno, wasn't last time. Apr 27 14:00:58 fiferboy, I loled at Bautista striking out swinging. Apr 27 14:02:50 GAN900: Yeah, last time I hacked it on Apr 27 14:02:59 Then Shields catching him out at 1st was the little cherry on top. Apr 27 14:03:11 Did you lol at his league leading home runs too? :P Apr 27 14:03:55 Yeah, I loled because he got on base 11-for-12 for the series? Apr 27 14:04:12 Hehe Apr 27 14:05:38 fiferboy, attendence figures are depressingly low. At least Tropicana is sort of small so it doesn't look as empty. Apr 27 14:05:47 Rogers seemed really dead on Sunday Apr 27 14:06:23 Those Americans and their baseball! Apr 27 14:06:41 * RST38h assumes a vaguely European pose Apr 27 14:06:46 RST38h, Japanese, too! Apr 27 14:07:09 GAN: And Cubans. hehe. Apr 27 14:07:39 At least we're not so bored watching futbol that we have to resort to stabbing each other. *g* Apr 27 14:08:04 GAN: Got guns for that. Apr 27 14:08:16 Yeah, pretty much all of Central and South American, and the Carribean. Apr 27 14:08:57 Actually, a really weird combination of locales. Although cricket world championship is probably even weirder. Apr 27 14:09:00 Nah, we just chase the other team's fans up on lightpoles and throw beer bottles at them until they fall off. Apr 27 14:09:49 Leave them there until the morning! Apr 27 14:49:35 DawnFoster: is there a agenda for the TSG tomorrow or can I sleep in? :) Apr 27 14:49:52 Stskeeps: you can sleep in - there weren Apr 27 14:50:03 t enough agenda items to have a meeting Apr 27 14:50:05 alright Apr 27 14:50:26 *goes to update wiki page* Apr 27 14:52:45 * Stskeeps gets started on his sf2011 talk prep Apr 27 14:59:49 DawnFoster: https://meego.com/ -> MeeGo Planet section-> my post " MeeGo DE - *THAT* is how you do it .... " -> ???? very old link :) Apr 27 15:00:17 isn't it normally ???. PROFIT? Apr 27 15:00:30 I wish Apr 27 15:00:37 * lbt investigates adwords... Apr 27 15:00:53 lbt - yeah, weird Apr 27 15:01:15 it would be nice if meego news pointed to 'new' stuff... especially when one is making an effort to be supportive.... Apr 27 15:01:17 meh Apr 27 15:01:30 lbt: file a bug against planet.meego.com i guess Apr 27 15:01:33 it's bergie and co's area Apr 27 15:01:35 the other stuff is new Apr 27 15:01:45 blogger feeds are complete crap Apr 27 15:01:56 I'm guessing it's a glitch in that one feed Apr 27 15:02:16 OK - maybe I should find another home for my blog :) Apr 27 15:02:20 Stskeeps: well, those are from the old planet Apr 27 15:02:36 planet.meego.com is still working out some bugs Apr 27 15:02:37 all the feeds from blogspot do that Apr 27 15:02:39 ah Apr 27 15:03:01 lbt - i recommend wordpress Apr 27 15:03:06 reliable, open source Apr 27 15:03:17 DawnFoster: any news on the community device programme? Apr 27 15:03:34 we hope to have the application form up this week or early next week Apr 27 15:03:51 Cool, for the third week running :P Apr 27 15:04:13 *chomp-at-bit* Apr 27 15:04:16 :P :) Apr 27 15:06:11 I should probably get home and push my git commits Apr 27 15:24:03 Hi again Apr 27 15:24:17 wb Apr 27 15:24:31 Stskeeps: is it normal that after uboot install n900 still complain about insuffisant power to charge via usb ? Apr 27 15:24:43 (running on maemo) Apr 27 15:25:38 not sure, did you have PR1.3? Apr 27 15:25:43 yep Apr 27 15:25:54 and cssu alpha Apr 27 15:25:58 ok Apr 27 15:26:02 but same kernel Apr 27 15:26:19 haven't seen the insufficient power message except when in car :) Apr 27 15:32:54 hum ... so i ll try to economize battery :) Apr 27 15:32:55 bye Apr 27 15:33:03 and thx Apr 27 15:39:04 isn't there big power management issues with Linux 2.6.38 and .39 ? Apr 27 15:40:51 lbt: Meego.com seems to be down? any idea why? Apr 27 15:42:24 DawnFoster: huh, it worked an hour ago Apr 27 15:42:35 if you look up the IP address and type it in it gives you 404 Apr 27 15:42:40 yeah, I was just on it and now i'm getting dns errors Apr 27 15:43:14 DawnFoster: looking Apr 27 15:45:27 lbt: DawnFoster DNS issue. Apr 27 15:46:53 Looks like ns1.linux-foundation.net has forgotten meego.com. (But bugs.meego.com works ok) Apr 27 15:47:17 So.... do we file a bug? :-p Apr 27 15:47:46 no, we're on it Apr 27 15:48:08 * lbt mutters about LF Apr 27 15:53:26 should be fixed ... may take 10min Apr 27 15:58:20 it appears that the LF dns servers are *still* not listening to zone xfers. If you use the maemo.org dns server it resolves Apr 27 15:58:35 I'll ask Adam to raise it with LF again Apr 27 15:59:42 DawnFoster: back for you now? Apr 27 16:00:13 lbt: yep, thanks Apr 27 16:00:32 lbt: here, too Apr 27 16:00:57 np - sorry. There was a typo in a DNS update for spf for the lists Apr 27 16:01:06 hasn't hit google, yet (8.8.8.8) Apr 27 16:08:53 Hi all Apr 27 16:09:27 I need help with multiple network connections Apr 27 16:11:06 I read something about carrick and connMan but I've not found anything about switch from home wired network ti Apr 27 16:11:26 to work wired network with different parameter Apr 27 16:12:01 If I try to reconfigure network "on the fly", connman freeze Apr 27 16:12:38 anyone could help me? I really need to switch between a lot of different wired network Apr 27 16:14:27 no one could help me? Apr 27 16:15:04 flexer: connman 0.69 is full of bugs and nearly unusable. try upgrading to connman 0.73 in http://download.meego.com/live/devel:/connectivity:/latest/Trunk/ Apr 27 16:16:12 npm thank you so much for your response. One question I'm on 1.1.4 release. I could anyway install 0.73? Apr 27 16:17:47 see https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13778 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13780 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13653 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9007 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15552 Apr 27 16:17:50 Bug 13778 maj, Medium, 1.1.90.4, martin.xu, ASSI, [upstream 0.71 has fixed]connection problems, page allocation failures Apr 27 16:17:53 Bug 13780 nor, Medium, 1.1.90.4, martin.xu, ASSI, Wired connection stops working when transferring lots of data Apr 27 16:17:55 Bug 13653 nor, Medium, 1.3, sameo, ASSI, ConnMan applet disconnect does not disconnect ipv6 Apr 27 16:17:57 Bug 9007 nor, High, ---, martin.xu, RESO WORKSFORME, [REG]network notification pop up about every 5 minutes Apr 27 16:17:59 Bug 15552 maj, High, ---, martin.xu, ASSI, [Upstream v-0.71 has fixed the issue]network fail to connect to internet with static IP for the seco Apr 27 16:18:07 flexer: oh sorry i've got 1.2 on the brain. Apr 27 16:18:18 thank you again npm Apr 27 16:18:38 i believe the problem may have existed in 1.1 and caused by some upgrade to connman (0.69) that was broken Apr 27 16:19:18 can I downgrade? Apr 27 16:20:21 flexer: you can always try doing zypper in http://download.meego.com/live/devel:/connectivity:/latest/Trunk/i586/connman-0.73.33.g3a370e1-1.1.i586.rpm and save an old copy of the original RPM on your filesystem in case it doesn't work and you need to back out. Apr 27 16:20:46 the worst that could happen is something breaks :-) Apr 27 16:20:52 ok. Thank you so much. I'm going to try Apr 27 16:22:46 also, connman crashes a lot, so if your network panel greys out, instead of rebooting just to "sudo connmand" Apr 27 16:23:51 oh npm. My problem is that it not work with "sudo connman". It freeze and I'm forced to reboot Apr 27 16:42:09 When do we expect the sponsorship emails to all be out by? Apr 27 16:42:37 hi all Apr 27 16:43:52 this week Apr 27 16:44:03 i'd like install meego (in-vehicle) on a laptop but the installer don't see my hard drive :-/ Apr 27 16:44:08 OK, thanks. Apr 27 16:44:14 any one know what ? Apr 27 16:46:32 @ npm. I've trid to install connman 0.73 but not worked. I'm back on 0.69 now. Other ideas? Apr 27 16:47:34 Someone know if there is a possibilities of installing NetworkManager on meego 1.1.4? Apr 27 16:52:39 is it possible to use Huawei 3G stick with Meego? and how? It doesn't appear in the Networks Tab, but it is recognized by kernel. Nothing in dmesg looks like error... Apr 27 16:53:39 &win 10 Apr 27 16:53:44 oops, sorry Apr 27 16:57:07 @delac. try here http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=2843 Apr 27 17:00:12 flexer: thanks, I'll take a look of that. Apr 27 17:00:33 nothing Apr 27 17:03:19 flexer: you might try downgrading to an older version than 0.69, like perhaps the original one that came w/ 1.1 Apr 27 17:04:12 @npm: I'm try to install networkManager from smeegol release Apr 27 17:04:48 sounds like even more of a pain... Apr 27 17:05:54 1.2 "trunk" w/ the .38 kernel is pretty solid IMHO... might be less pain to just run that Apr 27 17:06:43 and connman 0.73 Apr 27 17:07:24 w/ the released connman 0.69 -- and 1.2 ... same old problems Apr 27 17:07:34 I think that the problem is with all release of connman. I need the ability of switch between different wired lan configuration Apr 27 17:07:49 probably with static IP, right? Apr 27 17:07:57 static IP causes the problems w/ connman 0.69 Apr 27 17:08:07 right but not only Apr 27 17:08:37 and also the wired network, for me, was getting all manner of allocation errors etc which seem to be resolved by the new kernel Apr 27 17:09:03 really? Apr 27 17:09:18 how can upgrade to new kernel? Apr 27 17:09:42 I need download the 1.2 rc and reinstall? Apr 27 17:09:45 gabrbedd: kernel-headers isn't the one used for kernel modules :) kernel-XXX-devel is :) Apr 27 17:09:56 install 1.2 and then do zypper in http://download.meego.com/live/devel:/kernel/Trunk/i586/kernel-adaptation-pinetrail-2.6.38.2-9.1.i586.rpm Apr 27 17:10:08 gabrbedd: kernel-headers is the user space facing headers Apr 27 17:10:37 then I need a fresh install of 1.2? Apr 27 17:12:23 * gabrbedd looks in his sandbox Apr 27 17:13:28 Stskeeps: Doh! My bad. Apr 27 17:14:16 npm: is there a way of upgrade system without fresh reinstall? Apr 27 17:14:28 probably. or install the new kernel and see what hapens. the old kernel should still be there and if you comment out the "hiddenmenu" in /boot/grub/grub.conf Apr 27 17:14:43 you can switch between the different boot options Apr 27 17:15:42 no problem for grub. I've grub from sabayon for manage meego, snow and sabayon. Now I go to try. Apr 27 17:17:23 npm: just one more question. What do you mean with "and then do zypper in http://download.meego.com/live/devel:/kernel/Trunk/i586/kernel-adaptation-pinetrail-2.6.38.2-9.1.i586.rpm" Apr 27 17:17:54 well that'll just directly install the kernel on your system, updating grub, etc. Apr 27 17:18:06 did you mean download the rpm and then zypper install? Apr 27 17:19:08 you probably need to update everything else to 1.2 as well... i did my upgrade "live" by changing /etc/zypp/repos.d Apr 27 17:20:04 then do sudo zypper clean --all ; sudo zypper --gpg-auto-import-keys refresh ; sudo zypper up Apr 27 17:20:52 but don't blindly update everything. (for example I skipped 'setup' and 'filesystem' as i didn't want things overwritten Apr 27 17:21:37 I dont know how to direct /etc/zypp/repos.d to new repositories Apr 27 17:21:50 e.g. edit baseurl=http://download.meego.com/snapshots/latest/repos/oss/ia32/packages Apr 27 17:22:11 instead of whatever it's pointing at. Apr 27 17:22:36 then whenever you want to refresh to the latest, redo the clean/refresh and update again Apr 27 17:24:01 ok I try Apr 27 17:26:28 by the way I also haul in all of Fedora and RPMFusion the same way -- http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem -- (in case you want to try installing networkmanager on meego).... Apr 27 17:26:45 well, no luck with that. so I'm still wondering how I could enable my Huawei 3G stick? Apr 27 17:29:41 delac: http://www.netbooks.ph/forums/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=2220 ?? Apr 27 17:30:44 let us know if you get it working Apr 27 17:31:14 @npm: thank you for your help but I think it's too difficult for me. I wait for a 1.2 official release Apr 27 17:33:03 npm: I really don't see how that relates to my problem? Apr 27 17:33:18 stefanoP, Ping? Apr 27 17:33:30 stefanoP, Do you know if Adam ever comes on IRC? Apr 27 17:34:16 Or am I mixing up stezz and stefanoP? Apr 27 17:34:28 think you are Apr 27 17:39:54 dneary: btw, you were talking about irc dashboard? Apr 27 17:40:15 Stskeeps, Yes Apr 27 17:40:34 dneary: we have supybot and ircbot vm set up now, meetingbot runs there now Apr 27 17:40:42 what things would you like rom it? Apr 27 17:40:44 from Apr 27 17:40:51 Stskeeps, I have a Supybot parser Apr 27 17:41:12 Stskeeps, So just a regular URL where I can get the day's logs would be great Apr 27 17:41:20 ok Apr 27 17:41:32 * Stskeeps sends himself a todo to set up proper logging Apr 27 17:41:36 we have irclogs.meego.com now Apr 27 17:48:03 Stskeeps: cool Apr 27 17:48:49 Stskeeps: will that contain all of the logs from this channel or just #meego-meeting? Apr 27 17:49:00 will evolve to have centralized logs Apr 27 17:55:01 i'd like install meego (in-vehicle) on a laptop but the installer don't see my hard drive :-/ Apr 27 17:55:14 any one know what ? Apr 27 17:56:34 @npm: I've modded repos.d to point to new repositories. Now it want upgrade 589 packets. How can neglige "setup" and "filesystem" from upgrade? Apr 27 17:57:03 matth_gyver: Perhaps try the IVI ML or IRC channel (if they have one). Apr 27 17:57:21 matth_gyver: Their build is a tad different from the netbook/handset/tablet builds. Apr 27 17:59:54 flexer: i just take the list of packages it wants to upgrade, hand edit out the ones i want to skip, and then do "zypper up $list" where $list is set to the 587 packages you want to upgrade Apr 27 18:00:17 (is there a zypper "blacklist" feature to force skipping certain packages) Apr 27 18:00:49 ? Apr 27 18:02:17 gabrbedd: thanx, i'd like use the forum but there's some proleme with my mail address. I'll try the ML if I found it Apr 27 18:02:58 * gabrbedd often forgets that there is such a thing as a "forum" Apr 27 18:03:22 @npm: I've noticed "addlock, al" for skyp package. do you think it could be usefull? Apr 27 18:03:55 no idea what that is Apr 27 18:06:50 hey all.. Apr 27 18:07:19 evening Apr 27 18:08:55 npm: I've made "sudo zypper addlock setup" and sudo zypper addlock filesystem" and now these two packets are skipped. I'm going to upgrade. I cross my finger. Apr 27 18:10:01 is meego stable enough to flash my N900 with? Apr 27 18:10:16 should I take the chance.. Apr 27 18:10:41 npm: after the upgrade was completed I've to do zypper in http://download.meego.com/live/devel:/kernel/Trunk/i586/kernel-adaptation-pinetrail-2.6.38.2-9.1.i586.rpm Apr 27 18:14:09 flexer: thanks for teaching me about the "addlock" subcommand Apr 27 18:14:49 well that would be for the "second stage" (rebooting into it). Apr 27 18:14:57 for nothing Apr 27 18:14:58 ^^ pinetrail kernel Apr 27 18:15:21 first, after upgrade, i suggest a quick sanity check: sudo init 3 ; sudo init 5 Apr 27 18:15:49 that'll at least tell you if the GUI upgrade survived and give you something to type into in case it hasn't Apr 27 18:16:32 after confirming/fixing any issues with starting up the GUI, then try rebooting into pinetrail kernel Apr 27 18:17:49 confirm me the step. I wait for upgrade, then I install kernel; then init 3 init 5, then reboot. Right? Apr 27 18:18:00 the alternative is to setup an "init 3" boot of the kernel; that way, booting into a non-running GUI won't give you an infinite loop of restarts Apr 27 18:18:33 you could init3/init 5 first to see if the GUI survived Apr 27 18:18:42 then worry about kernel update and reboot last Apr 27 18:18:55 ok I'll do when my update finish Apr 27 18:19:08 also suggest looking for and fixing any RPMNEWs and RPMSAVES that the upgrade may write Apr 27 18:19:47 thank you for your support. I'll inform you about (I hope) Apr 27 18:20:11 sure. by the way, no guarantees any of this will work. it worked for me, that's all i know. Apr 27 18:23:16 but as configured, it works very well for me, and runs everything I would run on a Fedora system, but runs insanely fast on this puny Lenovo s10-3t with only 1G of memory... thus "win" Apr 27 18:24:13 (helps to have an SSD installed) Apr 27 18:50:24 interesting idea: http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/27/visa-makes-a-strategic-investment-in-disruptive-mobile-payments-startup-square/ Apr 27 18:50:49 credit card swiper that plugs into your analog headphone/mic port Apr 27 18:51:27 so exactly the same tech that thieves have been using for years? Apr 27 18:52:26 only now with iphone support! Apr 27 18:53:35 hopefully the sony mess will discourage people from using these braindead payment systems Apr 27 18:53:58 how will the sony mess do that? Apr 27 18:54:08 psn used credit cards Apr 27 18:54:20 people might think twice before typing their credit card details into every electronic device they own Apr 27 18:54:22 well credit cards are a joke.... some extra level of certification/verification might help ( i worked at verifone on their credit card devices ) Apr 27 18:55:19 and people might go back to visiting the local video rental store instead of using netflix Apr 27 18:55:20 I think if there was an option to upload credit card information to the cloud to `make payments easier`, many people would use it Apr 27 18:55:31 jedix: there already is that option Apr 27 18:55:42 credit cards are a "something you have" what's missing is "something you know" Apr 27 18:55:45 on the cloud? how so? Apr 27 18:55:48 see itunes, psn, and anything that uses paypal Apr 27 18:55:56 but that's what the electronic services provide Apr 27 18:57:19 don't forget android market and ovi too Apr 27 18:58:06 now all they need is a retinal scanner and we'd be good to go :-/ Apr 27 18:58:16 I'd use an rsa key vob.. but that was last months security breach Apr 27 18:59:21 online payment systems like PSN won;t be truly same until we have ubiquitous and unbreakable DRM end to end from the user machines all the way to the servers Apr 27 18:59:22 atleast ovi you can choose to put it on the phonebill Apr 27 18:59:57 and you can bet that many many companies will try to use this incident to sell their solution (which will be neither ubiquitous nor unbreakable, but *will* be annoying) Apr 27 19:00:26 espen77: putting it on the phonebill is no better than CC, it may be worse if you pay the bill by direct debit Apr 27 19:02:34 meego seems one step closer to achieving this... .. just noticed this package: trousers : Trousers is an implementation of the Trusted Computing Group's Software Stack ... TPM hardware can create, store and use RSA keys securely (without ever being exposed in memory) Apr 27 19:02:36 atleast no info to enter when doing phonebill, i would think it is a more secure system sins no extra information is sendt and stored Apr 27 19:03:19 * npm wonders who is using said 'trousers' package in meego, and what for Apr 27 19:06:07 * npm finds http://trousers.sourceforge.net/faq.html despite terrible googling for said item Apr 27 19:06:16 espen77: yes i'lll give you that - at least they won't be able to get loads of new CCs with your name on Apr 27 19:07:50 heya jbos - normal firefox doesnt even work with custom GTK+ input contexts? Apr 27 19:08:32 I managed to get the Huawei to show in Networks Tab by installing usb-modeswitch packages. However now it doesnt seem to be able to connect to the network. The light in the huawei will always blink green (2g) rather than blue (3g). However if I plug the huawei in to my desktop computer, it gets 3g connection. Thoughts? Apr 27 19:09:50 delac: i know that network manager (what you probably use on desktop) has *loads* of quirks code for those 3g dongles Apr 27 19:10:02 but meego does not use network manager, so probably lacks that quirks code Apr 27 19:12:27 ali1234: well, now it does blink blue time to time, but still doesn connect... sigh. Any way to import those quirks into meego? :) Apr 27 19:12:42 no idea Apr 27 19:12:51 try to connect manually Apr 27 19:13:01 ie install minicom, send AT commands by hand Apr 27 19:13:09 or picocom or whatever is used in meego Apr 27 19:13:17 cat Apr 27 19:13:20 and echo Apr 27 19:13:27 seriously? Apr 27 19:13:33 I might be Apr 27 19:13:42 I don't know if minicom or picocom are packaged Apr 27 19:13:49 or maybe if I just file a bug...? :) Apr 27 19:14:02 yes, to connman Apr 27 19:18:06 how do I echo AT to ttyUSB2? Apr 27 19:18:30 echo AT > /dev/ttyUSB2 Apr 27 19:19:11 hmm, it didn't seem to react to that... Apr 27 19:19:34 thiago_home: How do you get the reply? `tail -f /dev/ttyUSB2` ?? Apr 27 19:19:43 yes, in another terminal :-) Apr 27 19:19:50 isn't there a 'chat' program? Apr 27 19:19:50 :P Apr 27 19:19:55 or something Apr 27 19:20:00 cat ttyUSB2 Apr 27 19:20:01 i'm having acid pppd flashbacks Apr 27 19:20:11 chat isn't for that Apr 27 19:20:18 chat is send this, expect that Apr 27 19:20:34 in another terminal Apr 27 19:20:39 Stskeeps: my wife and I used to date over `talk` Apr 27 19:20:40 :-) Apr 27 19:20:48 gabrbedd: the IRC predecessor :-) Apr 27 19:21:42 thiago_home: We did IRC, too... over BITNET. But talk was more private. Apr 27 19:21:52 oh, wow, bitnet Apr 27 19:22:01 I remember using that in 92 Apr 27 19:22:16 thiago_home: Yep. This was 93. Apr 27 19:22:24 minicom is in the repos btw, i just checked Apr 27 19:22:36 in fact it appears to be installed by default on netbook Apr 27 19:56:10 alterego: ping Apr 27 19:56:23 Aloha Apr 27 19:56:35 Yes, I know, I'm sad and I have no life Apr 27 19:56:49 ha ... look who you're talking to! Apr 27 19:57:09 :) What can I do for you :) Apr 27 19:57:14 well ... I want to make a plugin for the OBS ... Apr 27 19:57:22 Okay, which runs Rails ;) Apr 27 19:57:26 yup Apr 27 19:57:29 Think I see where this is going :) Apr 27 19:58:23 I want a per-project plugin : eg https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Albt Apr 27 19:58:41 no, that's wrong Apr 27 19:59:06 I want a plugin that will add functionality which I'd like displayed on a project page Apr 27 19:59:31 m'kay Apr 27 19:59:41 eg https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=Project%3ADE%3ATrunk%3ATesting Apr 27 19:59:48 I've not really looked into the obs code much Apr 27 19:59:53 understood Apr 27 19:59:57 s/much/at all/ :) Apr 27 20:00:06 I think it's a normal rails app - complex but normal Apr 27 20:00:17 so first : is this a rails thing? Apr 27 20:00:25 or is it likely to be an OBS thing ? Apr 27 20:00:57 I'd imagine it's a Rails thing Apr 27 20:01:18 https://gitorious.org/opensuse/build-service/trees/master/src/webui - fyi Apr 27 20:01:20 You want to make your own planel thing? Apr 27 20:01:26 just so you can see the file structure Apr 27 20:01:30 yes Apr 27 20:01:37 Y?es, that is a rails app Apr 27 20:02:14 Looks like it taks to a database, though only for session management. Apr 27 20:02:43 there's a partner 'api' app too Apr 27 20:03:20 docs? Apr 27 20:03:31 b Apr 27 20:03:35 I think this: https://gitorious.org/opensuse/build-service/trees/master/src/webui/app/views/project is where the code I'm interested in is Apr 27 20:03:37 err sorry Apr 27 20:03:44 alterego: hah... code Apr 27 20:04:01 Yes, app/views is where all the html/* template code is Apr 27 20:04:33 You'll also want to look under app/controllers for the "projects" controller, which is where you want to make our data available. Apr 27 20:04:48 And you'll want to look in app/models for accessing all the business logic for OBS Apr 27 20:05:16 app/models basically should contain all the business logic for the application, app/controllers contains the ux logic and app/views is the display. Apr 27 20:05:23 Standard MVC architecture. Apr 27 20:05:25 *nod* Apr 27 20:05:37 heya Apr 27 20:05:42 lcuk, any news? :) Apr 27 20:05:42 Hey Venemo :) Apr 27 20:05:51 hey alterego, what's up? :) Apr 27 20:05:57 Not a lot Apr 27 20:06:25 Same old really, working hard, working on meego, getting stressed out :) Apr 27 20:06:56 ok ... and in the html... https://gitorious.org/opensuse/build-service/blobs/master/src/webui/app/views/project/monitor.html.erb#line10 Apr 27 20:06:59 hi Venemo, yeah I have been banging head about bug 16609 today Apr 27 20:07:02 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16609 nor, Undecided, ---, liquid, NEW, [N900 DE] Daily testing server does not include changelog Apr 27 20:07:03 mmm OK ... Apr 27 20:07:36 lbt: why don't you give me an example of a bit of information you want presented on the project page :) Apr 27 20:07:51 And I'll talk you through what I'd do. Apr 27 20:07:57 OK ,. step back Apr 27 20:08:06 BOSS is a workflow engine Apr 27 20:08:07 lbt: Error: "is" is not a valid command. Apr 27 20:08:13 shut it Apr 27 20:08:19 Hahah Apr 27 20:08:29 Right Apr 27 20:08:33 step back it'll blow up Apr 27 20:08:34 i cant seem to enter meego . it starts logo shows and then after that black screen Apr 27 20:08:41 n900 here Apr 27 20:08:46 so. when OBS emits events we launch a workflow Apr 27 20:09:05 lcuk, and any success with the packaging stuff we've talked about earlier? Apr 27 20:09:07 lolloo: can you ask in #meego-arm Apr 27 20:09:09 each project has a number of events it can emit: BUILD_SUCCESS, REQUEST_DECLINED Apr 27 20:09:10 am using daily image DE Apr 27 20:09:15 ok Apr 27 20:09:22 Sure Apr 27 20:09:56 now. I'd like each of those events to have/open a textarea with some text in it Apr 27 20:10:08 that text comes from a 'database' Apr 27 20:10:19 (eg a filesystem layout or redis or something) Apr 27 20:10:44 so given : https://build.pub.meego.com/project/repositories?project=Project%3ADE%3ATrunk%3ATesting Apr 27 20:11:04 there'd be an additional 'tab' next to Overview / Packages / Monitor Apr 27 20:11:11 that says "Workflow" Apr 27 20:11:34 and when I open it: there are like 15 textarea boxes... 1 for each event Apr 27 20:11:40 (UI can be improved later) Apr 27 20:12:11 http://pastie.org/1840684 Apr 27 20:12:24 ^^ is the content of a simple one Apr 27 20:12:54 Ah Apr 27 20:14:20 so .. not wanting to do this 'tonight' Apr 27 20:14:26 :) Apr 27 20:14:31 more a sanity check to see what approach to take Apr 27 20:14:40 I don't think this is suitable for upstream yet Apr 27 20:14:55 so I need to maintain it as a patch or something Apr 27 20:14:57 Well, I'd play with app/views first, get it looking like you want, then we can talk about getting it actually working through the contorller. Apr 27 20:15:01 that's ugly Apr 27 20:15:15 Yeah .. Apr 27 20:15:25 so I'm looking to see if I can install the app and install some code somewhere to 'plugin' Apr 27 20:15:33 now... OBS uses themes Apr 27 20:15:39 which I think is rails again Apr 27 20:15:58 Rails doesn't have any concept of "themes" Apr 27 20:16:00 so I think I can override by installing a theme which overrides some key things Apr 27 20:16:02 damne Apr 27 20:16:10 OK - that's an OBS-ism then Apr 27 20:16:29 it seems to have a search path for erb files? Apr 27 20:16:33 You could create all your view code in a "partial" which is basically a small .html.erb file Apr 27 20:16:43 https://gitorious.org/opensuse/build-service/blobs/master/src/webui/app/views/project/_tabs.html.erb Apr 27 20:16:46 Then you can just include that file from the projects/*.html.erb file you want it included. Apr 27 20:16:54 That means your patch on upstream will be a single line. Apr 27 20:17:01 *nod* Apr 27 20:17:24 That's a partial, anything starting with _*.html.erb is basically a fragment of commonly used HTML logic/code Apr 27 20:17:37 in this case the menubar Apr 27 20:17:52 files without the leading underscore are "views" which are generally entire pages. Apr 27 20:18:05 which I *think* I can override using their theme thing... which means I may be able to 'plugin' Apr 27 20:18:15 If you look under app/layouts and if there's an "application.html.erb" that is the main (global) template that is applied to every page. Apr 27 20:18:33 In that application.html.erb page there will be a line that looks somewhat like: <%= yield -%> Apr 27 20:18:57 That basically tells rails to load in the app/views/*/*.html.erb files depending on the controller/action being viewed. Apr 27 20:19:35 mmm I think they don't do that: https://gitorious.org/opensuse/build-service/blobs/master/src/webui/app/views/project/monitor.html.erb Apr 27 20:19:39 is the monitor page Apr 27 20:19:48 which is one of the 'tabs' Apr 27 20:20:07 line 10 has the call to the partial Apr 27 20:20:21 Yeah, you're right, Apr 27 20:20:36 They probably stick all the generic template stuff in partials and just include it whereever. Apr 27 20:20:46 Very php way of doings things ... Apr 27 20:21:07 *g* Apr 27 20:21:25 * lbt does not detect a compliment there Apr 27 20:21:29 :) Apr 27 20:21:41 bloody website designers :P Apr 27 20:21:58 I wonder what a professional website designer would think of my code. Apr 27 20:22:25 hehe ... yeah. I cringe every time I think someone looks at my python Apr 27 20:22:44 OK - this is good I think I'm going to go do a PoC... Apr 27 20:23:30 Well, I have issues about my own code, but then I look at others' and I'm like, wow, my standards must be quite high ... Apr 27 20:24:00 I just accept the fact that I'm a good designer and not a great coder :) Apr 27 20:24:19 :) Apr 27 20:24:27 so, my code sucks... fixing it gives you a job ! Apr 27 20:24:32 I accept the fact I'm a good head banger :D Apr 27 20:24:36 Hah Apr 27 20:26:08 OK - thanks ... I'll yell when I get stuck. Apr 27 20:26:25 :) Apr 27 20:26:30 I'll be around .. Apr 27 20:26:32 Tomorrow ... :) Apr 27 20:28:04 how do I quickly change window within zone? Apr 27 21:16:45 bleh: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11896#c1 "Nokia legal team did not agree to open source the package providing this functionality." Apr 27 21:16:48 Bug 11896 maj, Undecided, 1.1.80.15, baris.boyvat, RESO REJECTED, [FEA] Google Authentication API Apr 27 21:17:40 what is google authentication api? Apr 27 21:17:59 http://code.google.com/apis/accounts/docs/AuthSub.html Apr 27 21:18:06 sounds like it should be easy to reimplement Apr 27 21:18:09 http://code.google.com/apis/youtube/2.0/developers_guide_protocol.html#AuthSub_Authentication Apr 27 21:18:30 well it always sounds easy :-) Apr 27 21:18:54 actually i don't understand why that is a good reason to close the bug Apr 27 21:19:14 just because nokia doesn't want to release their existing code for this, means it's not a valid feature for someone else to implement from scratch? Apr 27 21:19:15 but there's the details of the implementation that are always tricky Apr 27 21:19:36 for example on maemo, sometimes you have to hand-type the oauth-code back from the browser into the app Apr 27 21:20:18 and in better integrated situations, (e.g. webkit for the oauth handoff) you don't get access to your saved passwords in your main browser Apr 27 21:20:47 in either case, both cause an unusual amount of pain for normal users (not us) Apr 27 21:22:01 is there any way to check what is set as APN for 3g connection? I think everything elese works, but the carric-3g-wizard fails to set the settings. Apr 27 21:22:07 ali1234: feel free to put that comment in the bug. i agree Apr 27 21:22:18 yeah but i don't understand why it cannot be implemented without some closed source code Apr 27 21:22:34 feels like nokia is saying "we don't want to do this, so nobody should do it" Apr 27 21:22:45 that's even more peculiar. Apr 27 21:30:53 maybe some dictate was given to stop contributing to android through linux and this code just found itself in the wrong place at the wrong time ( http://tech-buzz.net/2011/04/26/nokia-is-the-biggest-contributor-to-android-codebase-after-google/ ) Apr 27 21:31:35 more like dictate to stop contributing to anything open source Apr 27 21:33:11 yep. no more sipping and blinking. just drink the ms-coolaid Apr 27 21:50:27 i might be blind, but i cant seem to find a place to register at bugs.meego.com Apr 27 21:51:14 espen77, register on meego.com accounts are for everything on meego Apr 27 21:51:32 arfoll: ahh...ty :) Apr 27 21:54:22 ali1234, if you start thinking about bugs.meego.com as internal bugtracker that just happens to be publically visible, it makes perfect sense Apr 27 21:55:24 an internal request from one involved party to another was just formally rejected Apr 27 21:55:25 with open source there's not supposed to be an internal bugtracker Apr 27 21:56:12 yeah. android is advertised as open source too Apr 27 21:56:44 meego is constantly claimed to be "real open source, not like android" Apr 27 21:57:17 and it did catch you, didn't it? :) Apr 27 21:57:23 npm: open source != open development Apr 27 21:57:26 what do you mean? Apr 27 21:57:39 i have yet to see any evidence that it is true Apr 27 21:57:42 can't we just settle for more open than android? Apr 27 21:58:02 However, open development > open source :-) Apr 27 21:58:07 maemo community used to call it "open source for ivory towers" Apr 27 21:58:20 i disagree that open development is better than open code Apr 27 21:58:41 open source: user has access to source code for the product that they received. Apr 27 21:59:10 open development: user can read about why their bug will never be fixed and has no ability to fix it themself Apr 27 21:59:15 But open source doesn't mean that people can be involved in the development or that they have access to bug trackers or past releases or SCM... Apr 27 22:00:29 But open development is where the internal development is exposed to encourage contributions and participation. Apr 27 22:00:39 but it does neither Apr 27 22:00:45 ali1234: That can happen in any development model. Apr 27 22:01:05 it can't happen in the open source model (the one where you get the code and nothing else matters) Apr 27 22:01:08 nokia wanted to include some of their currently closed code in meego, opened a feature for it, didn't get permission to open it, so the bug got closed - i'm really not seeing the controversy :p Apr 27 22:01:30 ali1234: With open source... you can always fix it yourself (or pay for it)... but in neither model will get it merged up-stream. Apr 27 22:01:52 * gabrbedd is assuming "open development" includes (is a superset of) "open source" Apr 27 22:02:13 Open development without open source is.... something else. Apr 27 22:02:40 open development without open source = the maemo way Apr 27 22:03:04 "yes, every one come and contribute to maemo! no, you can;t have the source." Apr 27 22:03:27 "but please help by reporting bugs, even though we will never fix them" Apr 27 22:03:31 * gabrbedd dislikes Nokia a little more every day... Apr 27 22:04:18 ali1234, at least you had -devel packages and very good documentation, so you actually could develop against the closed components. you weren't allowed to change how the closed components work - true. Apr 27 22:05:35 and the android model is the exact opposite - the code is open, the development is not Apr 27 22:05:45 and personally i think that has worked out a lot better Apr 27 22:05:49 hey guys, quick question: What's the latest N900 image that boots properly? Apr 27 22:05:53 ali1234, show me the honeycomb source ;PPPP Apr 27 22:06:55 julienf: the one at the top of this page: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition Apr 27 22:07:02 we're still stuck with non free components for a while even in intel land Apr 27 22:07:08 * arfoll stares blindly at emgd Apr 27 22:07:52 ali1234: I think Qt did well with closed devel / open source, too. Apr 27 22:08:16 ali1234: And I think Qt is the model of good open source / open devel -- which they're also doing very well. Apr 27 22:08:30 arfoll: what specific nonfree components in intel land? codecs? or drivers? Apr 27 22:08:35 found itfound Apr 27 22:08:49 npm, gfx drivers Apr 27 22:09:03 and the situation is not looking any better with medfield/oaktrail Apr 27 22:09:34 actually i'm not sure what oaktrail gfx is exactly Apr 27 22:10:07 Hi everyone. Apr 27 22:10:48 npm, i don't see codecs as a big deal, hobbyists can use gst-ffmpeg and rebuild -bad/-ugly and device vendors will have to work out the hard part Apr 27 22:11:29 arfoll: or use http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem Apr 27 22:11:30 :-) Apr 27 22:11:51 npm, my thoughts on that page are on the ML ;-) Apr 27 22:12:30 indeed the GMA950 seems to be problematic: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/657976 Apr 27 22:12:40 Does anyone use Midori on Meego? Struggling to install it. =\ Apr 27 22:12:51 might also be causing https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12687 Apr 27 22:12:54 Bug 12687 nor, Medium, ---, robert, REOP, [REG]sometimes It will wait for a long time before Terminal launcded Apr 27 22:14:27 arfoll: my thoughts: why should individuals be compiling complex packages when they can just pick them up from one of the most widely used, best curated repositories around. Apr 27 22:15:19 esp. when people start packaging themselves, you get bugs like this: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16284 Apr 27 22:15:22 Bug 16284 nor, Medium, ---, hao.h.li, NEW, Chromium browser sandbox feature is not working in MeeGo builds Apr 27 22:15:39 and a nobody (other than me) banging on it hard enough to find the bugs Apr 27 22:15:42 so i Apr 27 22:15:58 i prefer a really large user community to be vetting the software packages i run. Apr 27 22:16:06 npm, using packages from another distro is not a good idea IMO Apr 27 22:16:09 esp. when they're basically an open portal to owning your machine Apr 27 22:16:17 you use packages from other distros all the time Apr 27 22:16:20 skupe Apr 27 22:16:22 skype Apr 27 22:16:24 java Apr 27 22:16:27 flahs Apr 27 22:16:30 flash Apr 27 22:16:31 etc. Apr 27 22:16:37 npm, only skype i believe Apr 27 22:16:45 google-chrome Apr 27 22:16:55 google-talk Apr 27 22:17:02 and that's because I have to. it's much easier to rebuild on community OBS Apr 27 22:17:05 they're all RPMs for fedora Apr 27 22:17:27 so it's nonsense to say using packages from other distros is a bad idea Apr 27 22:17:37 it's a bug when meego can't support packages from other distros Apr 27 22:17:53 e.g. https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16284 Apr 27 22:17:56 Bug 16284 nor, Medium, ---, hao.h.li, NEW, Chromium browser sandbox feature is not working in MeeGo builds Apr 27 22:17:59 i don't understand how you reach that conclusion Apr 27 22:18:08 oops https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14117 Apr 27 22:18:10 Bug 14117 nor, Undecided, ---, yan.yin, VERI FIXED, Skype application can be installed, but with error Apr 27 22:18:15 if you install enough fedora packages, you'll be running fedora, not meego Apr 27 22:18:25 not true Apr 27 22:18:30 i disagree, there are a few packages that it's handy to share Apr 27 22:18:38 i'm running meego. with fedora (rpmfusion) apps Apr 27 22:18:45 i setup the repositories to prefer meego Apr 27 22:18:56 so fedora stuff only gets picked up if missing Apr 27 22:18:59 eg, skype, java, chrome because they are closed source. but this should be a real minimum and only closed src apps need that kinda stuff Apr 27 22:19:04 and there is no guarantee that this will work, and why would there be? Apr 27 22:19:31 these rpmfusion packages are not tested at all on meego Apr 27 22:19:41 beyond closed, source, i'd rather be using the developers build for fedora directly, rather than waiting for someone to port it to meego Apr 27 22:19:46 this all assumes using ia32 of course Apr 27 22:20:01 and OBS and packaging for meego on other archs is absolutely necessary Apr 27 22:20:16 i don't understand why you think this is any less crazy that installing debian unstable packages on ubuntu Apr 27 22:20:26 if anything it's worse since meego is no longer even downstream of fedora Apr 27 22:20:30 that's fine if you want to but it shouldn't be on the wiki nor supported behaviour Apr 27 22:20:53 what is "supported behavior" .... Apr 27 22:21:03 sounds like something Sony would come up with Apr 27 22:21:07 and we know how that went. Apr 27 22:21:22 supported behaviour = your bug reports won't get instantly closed for doing this Apr 27 22:21:25 npm, you said it's a bug when a fedora package didn't work... i say it's not Apr 27 22:21:45 please explain https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14117 Apr 27 22:21:48 Bug 14117 nor, Undecided, ---, yan.yin, VERI FIXED, Skype application can be installed, but with error Apr 27 22:22:04 skype is special Apr 27 22:22:08 npm, that's because skype havent yet been cohersed to do a special build for meego Apr 27 22:22:20 there is no meego skype package so you have to use something else Apr 27 22:22:30 which is why I approved that bug Apr 27 22:22:48 any package from fedora.org -> not so Apr 27 22:23:27 nobody will be convinced to do a special build for meego. they might be paid to do it. but when you go to google, do you see "meego" listed in http://www.google.com/chat/video/download.html Apr 27 22:23:37 and why would google want to support meego? Apr 27 22:24:08 no you see 32 bit RPM for Suse/Fedora and it happens to work perfectly installed on meego. Apr 27 22:24:28 npm, so install it and enjoy if it works, if it doesn't it's not a bug Apr 27 22:24:42 Yeah I'm using it right now. So it's I can confirm it working perfectly. Apr 27 22:25:27 that's like saying look i can use a 300V PSU on my computer and it works! wait now it doesn't, i'm going to complain to the manufacturer Apr 27 22:25:30 but, for example in meego 1.0, it required two libs to relink before working. meego 1.0 users thus didn't get it working. how is that not a bug? Apr 27 22:26:12 there's a certain amount of compatibility epxected when you call something linux -- why deviation from that standard not be a bug? Apr 27 22:26:17 officially, skype is not supported either Apr 27 22:26:26 there is no standard of compatibility expected Apr 27 22:26:27 not from a fc15 rpm anyway Apr 27 22:26:38 npm: you think "compatible with fedora rpms" is a requirement to call it "linux"? seriously? wat? Apr 27 22:26:43 but, we do make an effort to get some unsupported stuff "to work" Apr 27 22:26:44 dont think so, i don't expect an fc15 rpms to work on my arch linux box Apr 27 22:26:50 "work" does not imply "supported" Apr 27 22:27:10 does archlinux use RPMs? Apr 27 22:27:13 i don't even expect it to work let alone be supported :) Apr 27 22:27:16 no, but it's linux Apr 27 22:27:48 npm: does opensuse accept bug reports against fc15 rpms? Apr 27 22:28:10 why would they? Apr 27 22:28:20 well apparently it's not linux if they don't Apr 27 22:28:26 that implied compatibility you are on about? Apr 27 22:28:39 is RPM based versus ubuntu based Apr 27 22:28:49 are the two defacto standards Apr 27 22:28:57 lolno Apr 27 22:28:58 and of course .tar.gz binary distibutions Apr 27 22:29:03 oh dear Apr 27 22:29:30 that's what you find on the internet. it's what ought to be supported or what's the poing of being linux? Apr 27 22:29:40 s/point Apr 27 22:30:00 * arfoll is out Apr 27 22:31:45 npm, "linux" is the kernel you can download from kernel.org. the other thingies you call "linux" is just posix-like operating systems built on top of that kernel using publically available components Apr 27 22:31:57 you seem to be implying that all rpm based distributions must provide support for installing fedora-compatible rpms (ie rpms built with fedora toolchain and packaging tools) and all deb based distros must provide same support for ubuntu debs Apr 27 22:33:08 npm, the thing is, libraries they build upon do not keep ABI compatibility between versions. so if you can get a binary built for one of these operating systems to run on another system - lucky you. but you cannot expect it to work. Apr 27 22:33:50 and IMHO, given that people build their binaries for fedora, it would be a bad idea to let meego become incompatible with fedora Apr 27 22:34:10 then it wouldn't be meego, it would be fedora Apr 27 22:34:20 or you lose out on having some important closed apps, and latest vesions of hard to package open apps. Apr 27 22:34:30 BTW, this is the largest complaint of vendors entering linux world from other, more stable OSes. "what?! you do not keep ABI backwards compatible??!" Apr 27 22:34:49 actually, the incompatibilities are trivial Apr 27 22:35:01 fedora14 uses readline6 and python 2.7 Apr 27 22:35:10 meego 1.2 uses readline5 and python 2.6 Apr 27 22:35:30 exactly. so you know exactly where the main problem is. Apr 27 22:35:48 in that case, it may be trivial, in others.. less so Apr 27 22:35:54 i've already live through one balkanization of unix (Openlook/Motif) and I don't think we need any more... Apr 27 22:36:19 (was in Motif camp). Apr 27 22:36:57 if you want to prevent the balkanization of unix, I think you already missed that boat :-) Apr 27 22:37:16 well MeeGo doesn't need to forcibly continue it. Apr 27 22:37:34 for example it's close enough on the RPM front that you can happily use a lot of stuff Apr 27 22:37:40 nobody said anything about forcing it Apr 27 22:37:49 nobody is stopping you from doing what you want to do Apr 27 22:37:50 and that should be touted as a feature Apr 27 22:38:07 arfoll seems to want to stop me Apr 27 22:38:11 npm, why don't you just run fedora on your metal, instead of pushing fedora packages to meego installation? Apr 27 22:38:14 no? Apr 27 22:38:40 because fedora is bloated and slow on the netbook Apr 27 22:38:52 meego is fast and has some cool features Apr 27 22:38:58 and it's precisely that reason why meego is not targetting fedora compatibility Apr 27 22:39:00 why can't i have best of both worlds ( i do) Apr 27 22:39:58 but it is already compatible per my experience w/ http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem Apr 27 22:40:02 in the case of out of date dependencies, btw, you realise that, generally speaking, distros stop updating things before a freeze for sanity reasons, right? Apr 27 22:40:13 ...and that 1.2 is actually planning on releasing relatively soon... Apr 27 22:40:15 you can setup fedore with as few packages installed as you want....importing bloat into meego will make it bloated Apr 27 22:40:26 for me the correct way of having other distros rpms (i have a lot of opensuse rpms installed) is through rpmbuild and proper install, not hacking my system to give some illusion of ABI compatibility :) Apr 27 22:40:54 espen77: i'm running meego kernel and OS. there is no imported bloat Apr 27 22:41:35 the difference is that if I want to try out some cool app i run on my desktop, instead of gong "yum install" I do "zypper in" on meego. Apr 27 22:42:03 and i don't need to go wasting time looking for someone's one-off build Apr 27 22:42:17 when i can use apps that are used/tested by thousands Apr 27 22:42:53 what's the difference to installing srpm and building it for your system? Apr 27 22:43:05 this is exactly te same package Apr 27 22:43:13 but built properly for meego Apr 27 22:43:24 maybe that makes sense for trivial packages Apr 27 22:43:37 as an exercise, please bring up the openshot video editor on meego. Apr 27 22:44:27 oh. so you're just lazy :) Apr 27 22:44:31 i'll talk to you in a few days. ... I just zypper installed it from rpmfusion and ran it within minutes. Apr 27 22:44:41 no i have better things to do Apr 27 22:45:31 so the issue is not packaging trivial little programs. Apr 27 22:45:59 it's packaging these goliaths of dependencies like firefox4, of openshot, or xbmc Apr 27 22:46:21 i have abiword and gnumeric installed together with all the dependencies from opensuse srpms Apr 27 22:46:29 and then trusting that those packages have been packaged so as to not expose security holes Apr 27 22:46:39 and it was not such time consuming as you are trying to present it Apr 27 22:46:41 (such as the lack of sandboxing in meego's chromium-browser) Apr 27 22:47:15 true, if you grab someone's srpms it's can be easy. Apr 27 22:47:28 so it is Apr 27 22:47:36 except when there's a dependency list of 20 other hard to compile painful packages Apr 27 22:47:47 which is often the case w/ multimedia Apr 27 22:47:49 almost as easy as grabbing someone elses rpms Apr 27 22:48:10 npm: you still do them one by one Apr 27 22:48:54 yep, i think it would be a good idea to have an OBS scraper just grab everything from OpenSuse and Fedora and RPMFusion and build em all Apr 27 22:49:14 then let people try em out and 'vote' on the results Apr 27 22:50:33 Grrrr Apr 27 22:50:37 npm: you are assuming that everything use the same toolchain Apr 27 22:50:50 that's a way better idea than advocating installing other distros binary packages :) Apr 27 22:50:57 I need another browser that supports Google Talk Plugin as well. Also mouse gestures like finger scrolling... =\ Apr 27 22:51:10 Midori is such a pain to install on Meego. Apr 27 22:51:21 isn't zigbee a human scrapper? Apr 27 22:51:59 arfoll, isn't the whole moblin project such scraper? :> Apr 27 22:52:27 smoku, was. Apr 27 22:52:54 anyways i dont think mass building everythign off opensuse is a bad idea. Apr 27 22:53:56 BTW, you can already find a lot of cool stuff in community obs Apr 27 22:54:03 ojdon: i'm using http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem-Firefox4 and it works fine w/ google talk plugin and has proper sandboxing and http://grabanddrag.mozdev.org/index.html give scrolling Apr 27 22:55:05 I'll give it a go then sometime. :) Thanks for the suggestion. Apr 27 22:55:23 we just need software.opensuse.org like interface Apr 27 22:55:44 of course, that's FF4 from the REMI Fedora repository... clearly a nono Apr 27 22:55:58 even though he's been reliably packaging stuff for fedora for years Apr 27 22:56:19 Oh? Apr 27 22:56:39 and the guy clearly tests everything for meego too Apr 27 22:57:17 arfoll. meego doesn't test stuff for meego, otherwise i wouldn't have found https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16284 Apr 27 22:57:19 Bug 16284 nor, Medium, ---, hao.h.li, NEW, Chromium browser sandbox feature is not working in MeeGo builds Apr 27 22:57:39 what's needed isn't testing, which is basically a waste of time... what's needed is zillions of users Apr 27 22:58:01 npm, and remi has zillions of users? doubtfull Apr 27 22:58:14 he has enough Apr 27 22:58:33 when Fedora 15 is released and FF4 is officially packaged there, i'll upgrade to that version. Apr 27 22:58:35 anyways i remember the mess of when i had a rhel workstation at work and installed packages from left and right, always caused a mess Apr 27 22:59:57 i've been running fedora/redhat for over a decade, never been a mess for me. Apr 27 23:00:11 and meego with installed 3/4 of fedora as dependencies is clearly not as bloated as real fedora installation :) Apr 27 23:00:43 especially when you'll end up with two different versions of the same lib just with different package names on the same system... Apr 27 23:00:55 well it seems to run about half as many interrupts per secondf as fedora 15 Apr 27 23:01:04 and uses less memory Apr 27 23:01:12 file a bug in fedora bugzilla? Apr 27 23:01:52 i just ran it for long enough to decide I was happy with meego Apr 27 23:02:04 although i like the gnome shell Apr 27 23:02:25 npm, have you tried smeegol? Apr 27 23:02:44 no Apr 27 23:03:02 it's opensuse running meego netbook interface Apr 27 23:03:19 i didn't see any speed difference to meego on my netbook Apr 27 23:03:29 i actually want meego on here, i just also want all the other libs and progs i'm used to as a fedora desktop user Apr 27 23:04:07 try running powertop for one Apr 27 23:04:51 that would be a good starting comparison for mobility... Apr 27 23:05:21 sorry. do your comparisons yourself ;-) Apr 27 23:05:29 i'm just suggesting options :) Apr 27 23:06:10 i'm pretty happy w/ meego 1.2 netbook actually Apr 27 23:07:16 and I'm with cordia ;-) Apr 27 23:09:04 interesting... that sounds like it would be good on a netbook/tablet Apr 27 23:43:20 the garage application just closes again when i open it. tailf .xsession-errors give the the following: FreeType: couldn't find encoding 'iso8859-13' for '/usr/share/fonts/cjkuni-fonts/ukai.ttc' Apr 28 02:36:14 * GeneralAntilles chuckles at The Register Nokia memo. Apr 28 02:36:39 What an absolute mess Nokia has made of itself over the last few years. Apr 28 02:37:44 GeneralAntilles: memo? Apr 28 02:37:49 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/27/nokia_cuts_memo/ Apr 28 02:37:53 I hope they go down in flames. Apr 28 02:38:05 They don't deserve to keep trying to compete. Apr 28 02:38:37 * GeneralAntilles notes the Lightning are about to go to the semi-finals. Apr 28 02:38:54 sigh Apr 28 02:39:01 the media still think that Nokia == MeeGo Apr 28 02:39:10 Mmm Apr 28 02:39:44 this is almost like Commodore Apr 28 02:39:48 all over again. Apr 28 02:40:51 hello,have someone been used webCam on meego-netbook? Apr 28 02:40:54 might actually be good for MeeGo it its not dominated by Nokia Apr 28 02:40:55 Well, without them things don't look particularly positive. Apr 28 02:41:05 berndhs: I could see that, but the negative press really hurts. Apr 28 02:41:08 and the lost time Apr 28 02:41:21 Not being in place in the cellular arena hurts, too. Apr 28 02:41:29 Frankly, I'd say tablets are a stop-gap. Apr 28 02:42:19 (Woo, Go Bolts!) Apr 28 02:42:46 . . . Apr 28 02:42:53 hello,have someone used webCam on meego-netbook? Apr 28 02:42:56 Declined sponsorship. Apr 28 02:43:03 That's special. Apr 28 02:47:29 hello,have someone used webCam on meego-netbook? Apr 28 02:48:51 i tried it, but I forget if it worked :) Apr 28 02:49:52 * GeneralAntilles tries to decide whether to couch surf of forget about the trip. Apr 28 02:50:22 ah be adventurous, take a tent and sleep in the park Apr 28 02:51:30 Mmm, too cold. Apr 28 02:51:58 SF in late May? should be fine with a decent sleeping bag Apr 28 02:52:35 berndhs: depends on where you grew up. :P Apr 28 02:53:00 it will be wayyy above freeying Apr 28 02:53:02 berndhs: i used my webcam which of chip is zc301,unfortunately,can't find /dev/video Apr 28 02:55:09 i guess there don't support for v4l on meego now? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 28 02:59:57 2011