**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 30 02:59:58 2011
Apr 30 03:26:54 <white_gecko> i've checked the md5sum so it shouldn't be a download problem
Apr 30 04:51:39 <npm> anybody else know of programs using hunspell(1) for spellcheck (chromium?):  https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16879
Apr 30 04:51:42 <MeeGoBot> Bug 16879 maj, Undecided, ---, peter.j.zhu, NEW, hunspell dumps core with default english dictionary, and is installed with no default dictionary
Apr 30 05:31:10 <Serio__> wat up
Apr 30 05:32:46 <Serio__> what do you think of the tablet that intel gives ou for free
Apr 30 05:33:02 <Stskeeps> well, it is technically a loner
Apr 30 05:33:05 <Stskeeps> loaner
Apr 30 05:33:20 <Serio__> true but a keeper......
Apr 30 05:33:42 <Serio__> anyway some got win 7 some dont
Apr 30 05:34:04 <Stskeeps> yeah, and in here only talk that's relevant is when you run on meego on it :)
Apr 30 05:34:35 <Serio__> true i really dont care for windows
Apr 30 05:34:41 <Serio__> bt4
Apr 30 05:34:46 * dm8tbr is more concerned with the fact that qml failed at such a simple task like: application that makes noise when button pressed
Apr 30 05:34:51 <dm8tbr> aka a 'fart app'
Apr 30 05:35:19 <Serio__> Intel is interested in developers for it
Apr 30 05:35:31 <Serio__> im sure there can b money
Apr 30 05:35:33 <dm8tbr> (qt mobility would allow for sound but you can't get that for _any_ sdk without compiling it yourself. waaaaay to go)
Apr 30 05:35:42 <dm8tbr> there was money
Apr 30 05:35:51 <Serio__> and/??
Apr 30 05:36:03 <Stskeeps> dm8tbr: odd that it's not there, is part of meego api
Apr 30 05:36:05 <dm8tbr> every app-up submission that was nodded off till yesterday gets 500 buckaroos
Apr 30 05:36:20 <dm8tbr> Stskeeps: there are even qt bugs about it
Apr 30 05:36:22 <Serio__> still money but 350,000 to compete
Apr 30 05:36:30 <Serio__> apps that is
Apr 30 05:36:53 <dm8tbr> Stskeeps: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTSDK-419 (and a second that was later duped)
Apr 30 05:37:02 <Serio__> iphon3 350k
Apr 30 05:37:13 * dm8tbr loves the part where someone tells nokia not to pull a microsoft
Apr 30 05:37:29 <Serio__> anyone developing apps here?
Apr 30 05:37:46 <Serio__> on the tablet?
Apr 30 05:37:57 <akk> I will be, but I've been futzing around trying to figure out how to install python
Apr 30 05:38:26 <akk> and concluding that it's not really a solution for app development, unless all your users don't mind compiling the qt bindings themselves before running your app
Apr 30 05:38:27 <Serio__> u run the command line akk?
Apr 30 05:38:40 <akk> On linux, generally yes.
Apr 30 05:39:19 <dm8tbr> pyqt or whatever they call it right now is packaged for quite many distros though
Apr 30 05:39:35 <Stskeeps> pyside?
Apr 30 05:39:38 <akk> python-qt is dead easy for linux. But I thought we were talking about meego.
Apr 30 05:39:52 <Serio__> so, is Intel that deep in the appl....excuse me app game already with this
Apr 30 05:40:20 <akk> The pyside tutorials I've found all seem to start with "here's how to build the latest pyside on your meego netbook, which btw will take 2-3 hours"
Apr 30 05:40:34 <akk> which makes me think users may balk at this.
Apr 30 05:40:42 <Stskeeps> :nod:
Apr 30 05:40:58 <dm8tbr> akk: someone™ should build a package on obs then
Apr 30 05:40:58 <Stskeeps> there's packages now, though
Apr 30 05:41:19 <Serio__> how much popularity do u think this will draw from the population? Meego>apps>=$?
Apr 30 05:42:02 <dm8tbr> Serio__: 1.21 jiggobucks
Apr 30 05:43:23 <Serio__> w3ll cuz if we dev then i hope so but i do believe alot of $ cuz meego is in some auto manufactors uless they pulled it
Apr 30 05:43:54 <Serio__> Meego does have big corps sposoring it
Apr 30 05:44:07 <dm8tbr> Serio__: ok, if you 'wantz anzw3rz' please use english. ktx
Apr 30 05:45:13 <Serio__> wal-mart, best buy etc....d8 0|(
Apr 30 05:45:31 <Serio__> lol
Apr 30 05:46:42 <Serio__> so yeah it will be cool to develop for them because alot of there apps will probally go mainsteam default app in there products
Apr 30 05:47:07 <Serio__> to compete with apple though...
Apr 30 05:47:44 <Serio__> They do have backers in the u.k.
Apr 30 05:48:26 <Serio__> and all over so Intel with meego are thinking big....
Apr 30 05:49:24 <Serio__> anyone else thinking of dev for meego?
Apr 30 05:49:56 <Bostik> well, LG just announced they'll ship a product soon with meego on it
Apr 30 05:50:10 <Stskeeps> [citation needed]
Apr 30 05:50:15 <Bostik> http://www.bgr.com/2011/04/29/lg-to-display-meego-prototype-devices-in-may/
Apr 30 05:50:21 <Bostik> right, there's the [#]
Apr 30 05:50:27 <Stskeeps> right, the tabloid media
Apr 30 05:50:30 <Stskeeps> sec
Apr 30 05:51:11 <Bostik> well true, until the actual device is shown around
Apr 30 05:51:31 <Stskeeps> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=997301&postcount=2
Apr 30 05:52:05 <Bostik> ah
Apr 30 05:52:17 <Bostik> I stand corrected
Apr 30 07:46:52 <iekku> hi
Apr 30 08:47:28 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Apr 30 08:54:59 <lbt> hey Jaffa
Apr 30 08:56:22 <Myrtti> hmh
Apr 30 08:56:30 <Stskeeps> morn jaffa
Apr 30 09:19:51 <mikhas> pvanhoof, what went wrong? Why is libqttracker In the MeeGo 1.2 compliance spec but not QSparql?
Apr 30 09:20:21 <mikhas> no one's going to like to have to use the former ...
Apr 30 09:20:48 <mikhas> and QSparql has QML support
Apr 30 09:25:57 <Stskeeps> if something looks awry even with the architectual changes, comment it
Apr 30 09:26:07 <Stskeeps> i caught a issue with mesa-libEGL
Apr 30 09:54:32 <xpo> Hey there
Apr 30 09:54:54 <Stskeeps> hi
Apr 30 09:58:25 <xpo> I'm looking for French meeps interested in coming at Solution  Linux in Paris
Apr 30 10:05:45 <lbt> Stskeeps: what was that collaborative thing we used ages ago to work on a doc ?
Apr 30 10:05:53 <Stskeeps> etherpad?
Apr 30 10:05:59 <lbt> sounds right
Apr 30 10:06:01 <lbt> ta
Apr 30 10:06:07 <dm8tbr> :)
Apr 30 10:07:31 * lbt thinks it would make a nice plugin to the wiki editor
Apr 30 10:11:48 <Jaffa> lbt: http://www.ietherpad.com/ is a public site
Apr 30 10:16:39 <lbt> Jaffa: I would like to go to http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition/BOSS click 'edit' and go to an etherpad with the text in it
Apr 30 10:16:51 <Stskeeps> "start collaborative session"?
Apr 30 10:16:51 <Stskeeps> :P
Apr 30 10:16:54 <lbt> yep
Apr 30 10:17:01 <Stskeeps> could be a cool plugin
Apr 30 10:17:01 <dm8tbr> yes, what Stskeeps says
Apr 30 10:17:13 <lbt> *nod*
Apr 30 10:17:28 <lbt> shouldn't be massively hard either...
Apr 30 10:17:35 <dm8tbr> it isn't thaaat hard to do it manually either
Apr 30 10:18:03 <lbt> well - I've had a few annoying collisions :)
Apr 30 10:18:12 <lbt> with team members especially
Apr 30 10:19:00 <dm8tbr> lbt: I meant: 1) open for editing 2)copy all 3) insert to etherpad 4) edit 5) paste back ... x) profit
Apr 30 10:19:18 <lbt> sure
Apr 30 10:19:49 <dm8tbr> ofc it would be nice if you could do 1-3 with one click
Apr 30 10:20:22 * lbt --> coffee and a think
Apr 30 10:41:33 * lcuk raises an eyebrow
Apr 30 10:55:31 <phaeron> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_editor_support#How_to_set_up_specific_editors_for_Wikipedia_editing
Apr 30 10:56:46 <phaeron> so external editor plugin for browser , then use gobby or gedit (with collaborative) or etherpad etc ..
Apr 30 11:00:31 <lbt> yeah, but that's client-side driven
Apr 30 11:00:55 <lbt> (I use https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/its-all-text/ FWIW)
Apr 30 11:01:14 <phaeron> yeah that was mentioned there
Apr 30 11:01:29 <phaeron> you want server side collab. editor ?
Apr 30 11:01:50 <lbt> yes
Apr 30 11:01:57 <lbt> server-side aware ....
Apr 30 11:02:21 <lbt> essentially click collab-edit and it either starts or joins a collab session
Apr 30 11:03:07 <phaeron> well if the url throws editors at the same edit session
Apr 30 11:03:16 <lbt> yep
Apr 30 11:04:10 <lbt> but ... low prio :)
Apr 30 11:04:56 <phaeron> use permanent google doc link
Apr 30 11:05:06 <phaeron> if that's possible
Apr 30 11:05:17 * phaeron ducks
Apr 30 11:07:39 <lbt> the issue is that the server would have to send the text to the etherpad if it wasn't running or redirect when it was. Then it would need to restore when the session was "over"
Apr 30 11:19:42 * gabrbedd makes coffee
Apr 30 11:42:36 <lbt> X-Fade: about?
Apr 30 11:50:01 <gabrbedd> Anybody know how to adjust brightness on the MeeGo UX?
Apr 30 11:50:36 <lbt> use a torch ?
Apr 30 11:51:00 <lcuk> zypper in eyelids
Apr 30 11:51:33 * gabrbedd coughs
Apr 30 11:51:52 <gabrbedd> Anybody know how to adjust brightness of the backlight for the display within the MeeGo UX's interface?
Apr 30 11:52:00 <gabrbedd> :-p
Apr 30 11:52:15 <arfoll> fn keys should work
Apr 30 11:52:16 <lcuk> lbt, lol
Apr 30 11:52:19 <lcuk> -lbt
Apr 30 11:52:22 <Stskeeps> gabrbedd: file a FEA#
Apr 30 11:52:23 <Stskeeps> ;)
Apr 30 11:52:33 <lcuk> gabrbedd, Fn + pgup/pgdn or something on the ideapad
Apr 30 11:52:51 <gabrbedd> It's a tablet... I'm using a USB keyboard.
Apr 30 11:53:12 <gabrbedd> Stskeeps: so it sounds like the answer is... "you can't" right?  :-)
Apr 30 11:53:46 <lcuk> on the netbook build, isn't there a control doofer for that?
Apr 30 11:54:01 <gabrbedd> lcuk: Yes.  Yes, there is.
Apr 30 11:54:06 <lcuk> ie hopefully it is just a frontend gui bit
Apr 30 11:54:11 * lcuk ponders where rm_you is ;)
Apr 30 11:55:41 <gabrbedd> lcuk: Yes, I'm sure that it is.  But past experience with the MeeGo UX devs... someone has a Very Strong Opinion on why the user should never even have to know that the backlight should be adjusted.  "It should just work"
Apr 30 11:55:56 <gabrbedd> :-)
Apr 30 11:56:12 <gabrbedd> lcuk: rm_you ?
Apr 30 11:56:32 <lcuk> gabrbedd, if they had a strong opinion, they would use the phrase "it does just work"
Apr 30 11:56:53 <lcuk> and will have tried to account for such things
Apr 30 11:57:43 <lcuk> gabrbedd, on the maemo devices rm_you was a dev who wrote the backlight control widgetry
Apr 30 11:57:55 <lcuk> along with jott afaik
Apr 30 11:58:08 <lcuk> then on the n900, qwerty released a variation
Apr 30 11:58:36 <gabrbedd> AH.
Apr 30 11:58:59 <gabrbedd> lcuk: And yes, they've swayed me with their opinion a couple of times.
Apr 30 12:00:47 <lcuk> gabrbedd, follow Stskeeps' advice and check/file a FEA# for it
Apr 30 12:01:18 * lcuk wrote a brightness setting widget once
Apr 30 12:01:30 <lcuk> I never wired it up to the backend though
Apr 30 12:01:40 * lcuk knows it is usable and pretty tho
Apr 30 12:02:12 <lcuk> gabrbedd: http://liqbase.net/liq.20081102_235650.gary.scr.png
Apr 30 12:02:43 <lcuk> I heard from so many people who some like granuality and others like defined steps
Apr 30 12:03:09 <lcuk> and that little thing elegantly allows best of both :)
Apr 30 12:04:04 <gabrbedd> :-)
Apr 30 12:21:21 * gabrbedd proudly presents Bug # 16882
Apr 30 12:21:24 <MeeGoBot> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16882 nor, Undecided, ---, rusty.lynch, NEW, There is no way to adjust the backlight in MeeGo UX
Apr 30 12:21:53 <gabrbedd> would have done a FEA, but MeeGo UX doesn't have any section in FEA.
Apr 30 12:24:55 <dm8tbr> gabrbedd: noticed that too, would make sense to have that, kind of...
Apr 30 12:26:11 <gabrbedd> I think it's a bug, anyway.  I don't know how you could ever automatically do that and get it right.
Apr 30 13:05:22 <dima> hi
Apr 30 13:09:33 <gabrbedd> dima: h1
Apr 30 13:10:42 <berndhs> H2, the future of fuel in trucking
Apr 30 13:12:52 <gabrbedd> berndhs: They've been saying that for years.  I quit paying attention -- what's the latest on fuel cells?
Apr 30 13:13:17 <berndhs> trucks will just burn it instead of diesel
Apr 30 13:13:36 <berndhs> diesel -> natural gas -> H2
Apr 30 13:14:44 <gabrbedd> berndhs: Do they liquify it or something?
Apr 30 13:15:05 <berndhs> i dont know, I'm just making this up now :)
Apr 30 13:15:25 <berndhs> big heavy tanks are not an issue with trucks
Apr 30 13:15:36 <berndhs> the natural gas part is Pickens
Apr 30 13:15:45 <gabrbedd> berndhs: :-p
Apr 30 13:16:01 <dm8tbr> until the first accident where such a thing goes kabloey
Apr 30 13:16:15 <berndhs> H2 is no worse than gasoline
Apr 30 13:16:31 <berndhs> or nat gas
Apr 30 13:16:33 <gabrbedd> berndhs: I think trucks you LPNG, where the L is "liquified"
Apr 30 13:16:55 <gabrbedd> And did you know that home heating oil is almost exactly identical to diesel?
Apr 30 13:17:04 <berndhs> i think so too, but those are still pressuriyed tanks
Apr 30 13:17:06 <gabrbedd> (Except that it's not taxed as hard)
Apr 30 13:17:14 <berndhs> not almost :)
Apr 30 13:17:30 <gabrbedd> Thus it's illegal to run it in your vehicle.
Apr 30 13:17:48 <gabrbedd> ...at least, in the US.
Apr 30 13:17:59 <berndhs> in some jurisdictions they color the home heating oil, thats the only difference
Apr 30 13:18:34 <gabrbedd> berndhs: I thought it was the diesel that was colored... but IDK. :-)
Apr 30 13:19:04 <berndhs> they color the cheap stuff so they can find it in the tanks of the taxed things
Apr 30 13:20:07 <gabrbedd> berndhs: BTW, you're in hockey-land, right?
Apr 30 13:20:22 <berndhs> yes unfortunately :)
Apr 30 13:20:35 <gabrbedd> unfortunately?
Apr 30 13:21:07 <berndhs> i dont like really want to be here
Apr 30 13:21:35 <berndhs> no opportunity, weather sucks
Apr 30 13:22:01 <berndhs> hockey is good though :)
Apr 30 13:22:08 <gabrbedd> berndhs: Yeah, I feel that way about Dallas :-p
Apr 30 13:22:35 <berndhs> oh there is probably more opportunity in Dallas than in Canada
Apr 30 13:23:39 <gabrbedd> berndhs: depends on the industry.
Apr 30 13:23:46 <berndhs> yes
Apr 30 13:23:52 <berndhs> oil is good in Canada
Apr 30 13:24:13 <berndhs> maybe aero is ok too, not sure
Apr 30 13:24:21 <gabrbedd> berndhs: But I've got a buddy in (I think) Northern Ontario who says that FT PERM web-dev job opportunities are... none.
Apr 30 13:24:52 <berndhs> very likely true
Apr 30 13:25:48 <gabrbedd> berndhs: He sticks around because his wife's family is around there... but whenever he wants to quit, he has to suck it up.
Apr 30 13:26:07 <berndhs> mostly Canadian attitude is to aim for being mediocre
Apr 30 13:26:27 <gabrbedd> No fun... but family > career.
Apr 30 13:26:41 <berndhs> historically I think, 2nd fiddle to UK, 2nd to US
Apr 30 13:27:00 <berndhs> I came back here for family reasons, now its hard to get out
Apr 30 13:27:40 <gabrbedd> I saw a Canadian TV awards show once... and it was really annoying at how often they played the "no respect" card (WRT US media)
Apr 30 13:28:10 <berndhs> yes, many define themselves as being not-americans
Apr 30 13:28:15 <RST38h> Ah! Canada bashing! =)
Apr 30 13:28:19 <gabrbedd> I was thinking, "You guys are really talented... do you /really/ need to keep this US-gives-us-no-respect chip on your shoulder?"
Apr 30 13:28:35 <berndhs> hey, I can bash Canada, I'm Canadian :)
Apr 30 13:28:44 <RST38h> Does US give them any respect?
Apr 30 13:29:03 <berndhs> US doesnt respect anybody, so whats the difference
Apr 30 13:29:08 <RST38h> berndhs: Wouldn't guess otherwise!
Apr 30 13:29:13 <gabrbedd> RST38h: Why should it matter?
Apr 30 13:29:28 <RST38h> gabrbedd:Dunno,does not matter much to me
Apr 30 13:29:37 <gabrbedd> That's the point.  :-)
Apr 30 13:29:43 <RST38h> gabrbedd: But someone, somewhere obviously finds it importantenough
Apr 30 13:30:38 <berndhs> it hurts canadians to think that way
Apr 30 13:30:44 <gabrbedd> I think it's just an excuse.  A way to hedge.
Apr 30 13:31:01 <berndhs> like I said defining yourself in terms of sombody else is not good
Apr 30 13:32:00 <berndhs> left-over colonian thinking probably
Apr 30 13:32:05 <gabrbedd> berndhs: And that reminds me of something thiago said yesterday, that MeeGo can't win by trying to be Android or iOS or whatever
Apr 30 13:32:07 <berndhs> colonial even
Apr 30 13:32:32 <berndhs> yes i woudl agree with thiago there
Apr 30 13:39:24 <gabrbedd> zypper install 'pkgconfig(xext)'
Apr 30 13:39:42 <gabrbedd> I just love that you can do that... I don't know of anything in apt that'll do that.
Apr 30 13:39:43 <gabrbedd> :-)
Apr 30 13:46:14 <GAN900> Mmm . . . hockey is good right now even in Florida. :P
Apr 30 13:50:03 <RST38h> Can't win on its own too =)
Apr 30 14:07:40 <serio__> goodmornin fellow meegos
Apr 30 14:09:08 <serio__> does anyone know how to start internet from the command line in meego bcuz i googled it and it only said about phones it seems
Apr 30 14:09:37 <serio__> i tried dhclient and it did launch but did not bind
Apr 30 14:09:49 <serio__> dhclient wlan0
Apr 30 14:10:05 <serio__> thats with wpa_supplicant
Apr 30 14:10:27 <serio__> does meego use diff source than ubuntu?
Apr 30 14:17:18 <serio__> what up friend ids
Apr 30 14:17:23 <gabrbedd> serio__: Install connman-test
Apr 30 14:17:54 <gabrbedd> serio__: ...and muck around with the scripts in /usr/lib/connman/test/
Apr 30 14:18:50 <serio__> ok thanks, i was looking for the interface config file like in ubuntu the lo inet loopback etc...
Apr 30 14:19:23 <serio__> in order to add the wlan0 inet dhcp
Apr 30 14:19:53 <gabrbedd> serio__: Nope, sorry.  Nothing like that here.
Apr 30 14:20:00 <serio__> that is how i connect in ubuntu by a script
Apr 30 14:20:20 <gabrbedd> serio__: But once you set it up with connman with these things... it'll generally work automatically from then on.
Apr 30 14:20:26 <gabrbedd> connman remember.
Apr 30 14:20:34 * gabrbedd is away
Apr 30 14:20:50 <serio__> that i wrote but yeah so alright.
Apr 30 14:20:59 <idontsleep> sounds good
Apr 30 15:01:27 * lcuk returns from local barber shop with exceedingly well done haircut and eard trimmed and edged 
Apr 30 15:01:32 <lcuk> b^
Apr 30 15:03:15 <alterego> :)
Apr 30 15:03:27 <alterego> I think I'm just going to push my qml commit now
Apr 30 15:03:39 <alterego> Even if there are some rather weird bugs
Apr 30 15:04:30 <alterego> lcuk: wanna test it? :)
Apr 30 15:11:15 <GAN900> alterego, it sends $10 to your PayPal every run?
Apr 30 15:11:27 <alterego> No, that's one of the bugs :(
Apr 30 15:11:41 <alterego> I'll have to add that feature in later.
Apr 30 15:17:28 <lcuk> lardman, \o
Apr 30 15:17:47 <lardman> hi lcuk, how's things?
Apr 30 15:18:02 <lcuk> lighter :)
Apr 30 15:18:14 * lcuk had several tonnes of extra weight lifted from his head
Apr 30 15:18:30 <lardman> well that sounds good, why though?
Apr 30 15:18:53 <lcuk> because my hair was starting to resemble a mountain yak
Apr 30 15:19:29 <lardman> well....
Apr 30 15:19:40 <lardman> it's cold oop north so i hear ;)
Apr 30 15:19:53 <lcuk> sun is shining
Apr 30 15:19:57 <lardman> :)
Apr 30 15:19:59 <lcuk> was out in just a tshirt :P
Apr 30 15:20:03 <lardman> same here actually, was expecting rain
Apr 30 15:20:06 <lcuk> it is not that cold
Apr 30 15:20:25 <lcuk> still trying to work out where we can put the barometer up on the wall
Apr 30 15:20:25 <lardman> just a generic southerner vs northerner comment, don't worry :)
Apr 30 15:20:55 <lardman> (where noth is anything above the M4) ;)
Apr 30 15:21:00 <lardman> north even
Apr 30 15:21:07 <lcuk> heh
Apr 30 15:21:19 * lardman tries to find a map source
Apr 30 15:21:23 <lcuk> for you anything north is technically north of the equator isn't it? :P
Apr 30 15:21:29 <lardman> not for the M4 mind you
Apr 30 15:21:39 <lcuk> how is Holly?
Apr 30 15:21:42 <lardman> well I suppose so :)
Apr 30 15:21:55 <lardman> she's fine, we're expecting (I think I told you that a while back)
Apr 30 15:22:04 <lcuk> Tracy is too
Apr 30 15:22:12 <lardman> yep I remember you saying
Apr 30 15:22:27 <lcuk> how far along is Holly?
Apr 30 15:22:49 <lardman> hmm, due mid Aug, so I'll have to do the maths to work that one out
Apr 30 15:23:47 <lcuk> we just got the cot made up the other day
Apr 30 15:23:53 <lcuk> and went to take it upstairs
Apr 30 15:24:05 <lcuk> before getting stuck half way up the stairs
Apr 30 15:24:25 <lardman> lol
Apr 30 15:24:29 <lcuk> took combined effort  of all of us to dismantle it and reassemble once it got through the door :P
Apr 30 15:24:50 <lardman> we need to move first, which means finding something to buy or to rent, no pressure!
Apr 30 15:25:02 <lcuk> indeed difficult
Apr 30 15:25:13 * lcuk would ideally be in a bigger house
Apr 30 15:25:28 <lardman> 2 bed flat for us atm, so not ideal
Apr 30 15:25:55 <lcuk> yeah that isn't so bad for you :P
Apr 30 15:25:55 <alterego> Okay, commited my first working qml dialer :)
Apr 30 15:26:00 <lcuk> this is 3rd kid i nthe house ;)
Apr 30 15:26:04 <Stskeeps> alterego: \o/
Apr 30 15:26:06 <Stskeeps> alterego: url?
Apr 30 15:26:07 <alterego> And sent intros to meego-dev and -handset
Apr 30 15:26:36 <lardman> lcuk: we have some catching up to do then!
Apr 30 15:27:00 <alterego> https://meego.gitorious.org/~tswindell/meego-handset-ux/qml-meego-handset-dialer
Apr 30 15:27:05 <lardman> ah, the commander has just told me we're heading out to meet people in the pub, dare I disobey... no :)
Apr 30 15:27:08 <alterego> Or check your inbox :P
Apr 30 15:27:11 <lcuk> beers lardman, beers.
Apr 30 15:27:16 <lardman> mmmm
Apr 30 15:27:18 <lcuk> alterego, :D:D:D:D
Apr 30 15:27:23 <lardman> I'll drink one for you lcuk
Apr 30 15:27:26 <lardman> cu all later!
Apr 30 15:27:28 <lcuk> roger \o
Apr 30 15:28:24 <alterego> I guess I should figure out how to build it on community obs now
Apr 30 15:28:39 <alterego> So, I create a .yaml file right?
Apr 30 15:28:43 <alterego> Then what do I do with that? :)
Apr 30 15:29:08 <lcuk> alterego, I was not aware you needed a yaml?
Apr 30 15:29:15 <lcuk> I thought spec was required though
Apr 30 15:29:23 <timoph> spec works too
Apr 30 15:29:30 <alterego> I thought you used the .yaml to generate the .spec
Apr 30 15:29:33 <lcuk> hi timoph \o
Apr 30 15:29:43 <timoph> o/ lcuk
Apr 30 15:29:47 <alterego> What's the easiest way :)
Apr 30 15:30:03 <timoph> I'm using specs
Apr 30 15:30:15 <timoph> dunno if it's easier
Apr 30 15:30:28 <alterego> So, I just need .spec and my .tar.bz2
Apr 30 15:30:33 * lcuk just realised line of beard is actually better than when I do it myself
Apr 30 15:30:41 <timoph> haven't bothered to learn the yaml stuff
Apr 30 15:30:51 <timoph> yep
Apr 30 15:30:54 <Stskeeps> i like the yaml stuff, makes my daily life easier
Apr 30 15:31:00 <timoph> spec + source tar ball
Apr 30 15:31:27 <alterego> Stskeeps: is it spectacle that generates the spec from the yaml?
Apr 30 15:31:31 <Stskeeps> yes
Apr 30 15:31:42 <Stskeeps> 'specify'
Apr 30 15:31:43 <Stskeeps> and then you do some misc adjustments to spec
Apr 30 15:31:47 * timoph is trying hildon (cordia) in exopc
Apr 30 15:32:24 <lcuk> speaking of cordia, I need a drink!
Apr 30 15:32:38 <lcuk> timoph, I guess it is working well?
Apr 30 15:32:39 <dm8tbr> timoph: oh that sounds interesting
Apr 30 15:33:16 <timoph> made the mistake of taking a tablet image as the starting point
Apr 30 15:33:36 <lcuk> why a mistake?
Apr 30 15:33:49 <mikeleib> alterego: spiffy
Apr 30 15:33:53 <timoph> doesn't seem to work as well
Apr 30 15:33:59 <alterego> Stskeeps: under "Files:" can  I have a directory?
Apr 30 15:34:11 <Stskeeps> alterego: sure
Apr 30 15:34:14 <alterego> Like "- "%{_datadir}/meego-handset-dialer"
Apr 30 15:34:18 <timoph> after changing the session to hildon. meego-ux-daemon is in a hildon window :)
Apr 30 15:34:25 <alterego> Ignore the first double quote ;)
Apr 30 15:34:28 <alterego> m'kay
Apr 30 15:34:38 <timoph> screen lock goes behind everything and can't be interacted with
Apr 30 15:35:06 <mikeleib> alterego: the entries under Files: are just turned into %files in a the specfile
Apr 30 15:35:30 <mikeleib> first rule of YAML- rip off someone else's
Apr 30 15:35:53 <alterego> I am, I'm ripping off the current dialer one :D
Apr 30 15:36:03 <mikeleib> excellent
Apr 30 15:36:05 <timoph> :)
Apr 30 15:36:29 <mikeleib> for example of subpackages in package, see: meego-ux-settings, for example
Apr 30 15:41:04 <Stskeeps> alterego: screenshots?
Apr 30 15:41:27 <alterego> I'll upload some in a couple of minutes.
Apr 30 15:41:52 <alterego> Okay, so I've got a local obs chroot, a .yaml file, how can I test it builds from sources correctly?
Apr 30 15:42:21 <Stskeeps> osc build it?
Apr 30 15:42:28 <Stskeeps> just submit it to obs, like i do, when i'm lazy :P
Apr 30 15:42:37 <alterego> Heh
Apr 30 15:43:35 <mikeleib> osc build fails for me on such a regular basis that I revert to abusing obs to building on server most of the time
Apr 30 15:43:52 <Stskeeps>  --clean is nice
Apr 30 15:44:13 <alterego> "is not an osc project dir or working copy"
Apr 30 15:44:35 <mikeleib> --clean can bail you out of a wedge.. Or it demonstrate that your wedge is incurable
Apr 30 15:45:13 <alterego> Heh
Apr 30 15:51:07 <alterego> okay, so a ci, then a build, I getcha :D
Apr 30 15:58:50 <timoph> dm8tbr: just realized that I forgot to ask you to move MeeGoBot from #meego-qa-tools to #meego-qa
Apr 30 15:59:08 <timoph> (we stopped using -qa-tools)
Apr 30 16:02:35 <Stskeeps> ok, what the hell at meego-community@ mail
Apr 30 16:03:59 <timoph> ?
Apr 30 16:04:50 <thp> alterego: any screenshots of the new qml dialer ui?
Apr 30 16:05:21 <alterego> thp: working on them now :P
Apr 30 16:12:54 <alterego> Damnit, they're gonna have to wait as my N900 just died :)
Apr 30 16:13:42 <dm8tbr> timoph: will do that later. ping me again if he doesn't magically appear in a day
Apr 30 16:14:10 <timoph> dm8tbr: ack
Apr 30 16:30:00 <GAN900> Stskeeps, gotta be the preamble to a 411 scam
Apr 30 16:31:07 <momesana> Hi
Apr 30 16:31:16 <momesana> How can I change the brightness of my tablet?
Apr 30 16:32:07 <momesana> Is there a way to do that or do I have to write a app to do it manipulating /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video0/actual_brightness ?
Apr 30 16:33:10 <alterego> N900 usb port has just come lose
Apr 30 16:33:19 <alterego> I now can't get on the internet ..
Apr 30 16:33:25 <iekku> Stskeeps, you made me open my work mail :)
Apr 30 16:33:26 <alterego> (on my laptop)
Apr 30 16:33:48 <iekku> Stskeeps, and need to agree with you, what the ....
Apr 30 16:33:57 <alterego> And I don't want to send it off for repair, because I know they'll just send me an f'ing N8
Apr 30 16:34:02 <jonnor> momesana: look in Qt Mobility, it might have API for that
Apr 30 16:34:10 <Stskeeps> alterego: at least you have two n900's
Apr 30 16:34:16 <RST38h> no small do-it-all shops?
Apr 30 16:34:22 <momesana> jonnor: alright
Apr 30 16:34:33 <alterego> Stskeeps: yes, at least I can keep a charged batter using the other one. Still ..
Apr 30 16:35:02 <alterego> I think I'll relegate old broken N900 to meego dev, using adhoc wifi
Apr 30 16:35:08 <Stskeeps> alterego: which one broke, btw? the new or old?
Apr 30 16:35:11 <alterego> And use the newer one for primary
Apr 30 16:35:18 <alterego> old one thank god :)
Apr 30 16:35:26 <Stskeeps> and do you have uboot on it?
Apr 30 16:35:29 <momesana> jonnor: I can query it but not change it, it seems: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.2.0-beta1/qsystemdisplayinfo.html#displayBrightness
Apr 30 16:36:11 <alterego> Stskeeps: yeah, got uboot on both
Apr 30 16:36:18 <Stskeeps> alterego: ah, perfect developer device then
Apr 30 16:36:18 <Stskeeps> :P
Apr 30 16:37:38 <jonnor> momesana: there might be a service for it
Apr 30 16:37:57 <Stskeeps> alterego: no AP at home?
Apr 30 16:37:57 <momesana> jonnor: hm, a service? Can you elaborate on that?
Apr 30 16:38:21 <momesana> jonnor: All I know is Qt
Apr 30 16:38:26 <alterego> Stskeeps: nope :/
Apr 30 16:38:36 <momesana> jonnor: so is the service stuff specific to MeeGo?
Apr 30 16:39:09 <jonnor> momesana: Qt Mobility is a framework that is mostly for giving you access to system services
Apr 30 16:39:19 <jonnor> http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.2.0-beta1/qtserviceframework.html
Apr 30 16:39:25 <jonnor> is the generic service module
Apr 30 16:39:42 <momesana> Sweet. Thanks
Apr 30 16:40:44 <jonnor> multimedia collection api, contacts, location, messaging, network, connectivity are some of the speific service APIs
Apr 30 16:41:07 <jonnor> momesana: I don't know that there is a service for display brigthness, I just suspect that there is
Apr 30 16:42:33 <alterego> sysfs :)
Apr 30 16:43:39 <momesana> jonnor: I assume there isn't ... from what I've read so far
Apr 30 16:43:58 <momesana> jonnor: but that ain't too bad ... I'll implement a small Qt app that does this for now ... and I hope the next version provides one
Apr 30 16:48:56 <akk> To develop apps for an ExoPC, do I want to set a mad-admin target of handset or netbook? (or core?)
Apr 30 16:49:06 <akk> None of the docs seem to talk about tablets.
Apr 30 16:58:26 <Stskeeps> akk: core, prolly
Apr 30 17:07:00 <dm8tbr> timoph: done
Apr 30 19:21:22 <lcuk> random question to chip/sensor people: is there such a thing as a digital barometer?
Apr 30 19:22:57 <thiago_home> it's probably easy to do one
Apr 30 19:23:15 <RST38h> lcuk: yes.
Apr 30 19:23:24 <berndhs> or you could take a digital photograph of a barometer
Apr 30 19:23:27 <lbt> altimeter's use them AFAIK
Apr 30 19:24:06 <RST38h> lcuk: you can find these in some timex watches (fancy ones), some radio scanners (together with a few other env sensors), and I think some android phones too
Apr 30 19:24:19 <akk> My Garmin GPS has a barometer in it (but not all do).
Apr 30 19:24:28 * TSCHAKeee has some 1-wire barometers
Apr 30 19:24:38 <akk> I saw an Android phone with a barometer last weekend, but apparently very few of them have one.
Apr 30 19:24:48 <akk> actually tablet, not phone
Apr 30 19:25:02 <lcuk> thanks \o
Apr 30 19:25:08 <akk> I bet adafruit or sparkfun sell them
Apr 30 19:25:54 <akk> TSCHAKeee: Does meego come with drivers for 1-wire? (I know they exist in the linux kernel source.)
Apr 30 19:26:01 <TSCHAKeee> no.
Apr 30 19:26:07 <TSCHAKeee> but you can fold in owfs
Apr 30 19:41:15 <gabrbedd> lcuk: A friend has a tablet barometer.  He hangs his just inside the door.
Apr 30 19:41:26 <gabrbedd> (not really :-p)
Apr 30 19:41:55 <gabrbedd> lcuk: Whete did you decide to hang yours?  And is your Hg?
Apr 30 19:42:21 <lcuk> it is still up here, looking for a suitable place
Apr 30 19:42:36 <lcuk> Hg?
Apr 30 19:43:02 <lcuk> you mean the twitter post from before?  that is a paraglider
Apr 30 19:43:02 <berndhs> you want to keep long term records ?
Apr 30 19:43:47 <lcuk> berndhs, I have every sketch I have ever drawn since my n810, is that a good enough answer?
Apr 30 19:44:11 <berndhs> it allows to make a wild guess :)
Apr 30 19:44:26 * lcuk should actually put them together in a folder and see how far the graffiti wall spans :P
Apr 30 19:44:35 <berndhs> i download a weather sat pic every 2 hours, keep them in a database
Apr 30 19:44:45 <lcuk> I used to do that too
Apr 30 19:44:46 <berndhs> i dont actually do anything with it
Apr 30 19:44:51 <lcuk> started at school
Apr 30 19:44:56 <berndhs> make nice movies though
Apr 30 19:44:56 <lcuk> they had a sat dish on the roof
Apr 30 19:45:07 <lcuk> so downloads came direct, no internet
Apr 30 19:45:29 <lcuk> on an archimedes I think
Apr 30 19:46:11 <berndhs> NOAA and canadian weather service let you download stuff, i dont know about europeans
Apr 30 19:46:27 <lcuk> when I was in school there wasn't much in the way of internets
Apr 30 19:47:09 <berndhs> i was on the internet before it existed :)
Apr 30 19:47:27 <lcuk> I think the first WAN connection I saw was on JANET in college
Apr 30 19:47:36 <lcuk> (I think it is JANET anyway)
Apr 30 19:47:44 <TSCHAKeee> JANET was on the ARPANET
Apr 30 19:47:46 <gabrbedd> lcuk: I was referring to T's tweet, which I thought was about the barameter.
Apr 30 19:48:09 <gabrbedd> lcuk: and Hg == Mercury.  Is your barometer a mercurial barometer?
Apr 30 19:48:20 <lcuk> gabrbedd, possibly was, I can't seem to make twitter show me just the tweets from a subset of folks
Apr 30 19:48:22 <berndhs> about that tweet, I dont think it makes much difference if you keep long term data
Apr 30 19:48:56 <lcuk> gabrbedd, ahh not sure it has been sitting under our bed for a long time
Apr 30 19:49:22 <lcuk> we only got it out when sorting through stuff
Apr 30 19:50:07 <gabrbedd> lcuk: Well, an Hg barometer is a tube of glass turned up-side down to create a vacuum at the top.  At the bottom is a pool of Hg with holes to allow air to get through.
Apr 30 19:50:21 <gabrbedd> lcuk: So, if you found it under your bed... it's probably not.  :-)
Apr 30 19:50:47 <gabrbedd> Oh, and they're usually about 1m long (760 mmHg == 1atm)
Apr 30 19:51:05 <lcuk> I guess that one answers your question then :P
Apr 30 19:51:41 <berndhs> i always want to keep records, but im too lazy to write it down every morning
Apr 30 19:52:19 <lcuk> do it in irc :D
Apr 30 19:53:21 <lcuk> Jaffa, :O @ Dr Who
Apr 30 19:54:45 * CosmoHill wishes his family wouldn't buy cool games when he has so much work to do
Apr 30 19:56:23 * alterego tries to figure out how to get his N900 connected to adhoc wifi
Apr 30 19:57:22 <mikeleib> connman doesn't support adhoc
Apr 30 19:57:41 * TSCHAKeee depressed, a LinuxMCE developer died two days ago, and I just got the news.
Apr 30 19:57:54 <mikeleib> :(
Apr 30 19:57:59 <alterego> Yes, that's why I'm trying to figure it out
Apr 30 19:58:10 * CosmoHill hugs TSCHAKeee 
Apr 30 19:58:29 <TSCHAKeee> thanks.
Apr 30 19:58:32 <mikeleib> you'll have to kill connman and use iwconfig or the like directly.. also send patch to connman
Apr 30 19:58:50 <gabrbedd> TSCHAKeee: :-(
Apr 30 19:59:01 <berndhs> I'm sorry to hear that TSCHAKeee
Apr 30 19:59:30 <lcuk> :( TSCHAKeee
Apr 30 19:59:42 <TSCHAKeee> he was an Apache helicopter pilot. helicopter crashed while he was training a student.
Apr 30 20:00:17 <mikeleib> zowy
Apr 30 20:00:31 * mikeleib is now saddened as well
Apr 30 20:00:56 <TSCHAKeee> and he had just finished his military service with the Dutch Air Force...just finished it.
Apr 30 20:01:01 * TSCHAKeee goes back to coding.
Apr 30 20:01:11 * CosmoHill hugs mikeleib and TSCHAKeee again
Apr 30 20:03:05 <lcuk> TSCHAKeee, what protocol does a linuxmce remote control need?  are there already remote control apps that work from symbian on it?
Apr 30 20:03:31 <TSCHAKeee> lcuk: we have a mobile orbiter for Symbian Series 60 v1/v2 and one for v3.
Apr 30 20:03:43 <TSCHAKeee> lcuk: it is a specific protocol for talking to the bluetooth dongle that we call BD.
Apr 30 20:04:09 <TSCHAKeee> lcuk: it operates over bluetooth RFCOMM, with the phone as the server, and the nearest media director as the client.
Apr 30 20:04:50 <TSCHAKeee> as for anything else, Orbiter talks DCE to the DCE router.
Apr 30 20:04:52 <alterego> Annoyingly I can't set the wifi adapter to ad-hoc :/
Apr 30 20:04:59 <lcuk> TSCHAKeee, nice (sounds complex though!)
Apr 30 20:05:04 <lcuk> alterego, nope
Apr 30 20:05:06 <lcuk> bug 440
Apr 30 20:05:09 <MeeGoBot> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=440 enh, Low, ---, sameo, ASSI, Unable to support ad-hoc mode for WiFi
Apr 30 20:05:17 <TSCHAKeee> lcuk: it is... it was designed so that mobile phones would automatically change depending on what room they were in.
Apr 30 20:05:29 <alterego> Then how the hell do I connect to an adhoc network?
Apr 30 20:05:34 <TSCHAKeee> the protocol works, as long as the bluetooth clouds do not overlap
Apr 30 20:05:35 <alterego> Someone said they had this working ..
Apr 30 20:05:36 <lcuk> TSCHAKeee, I keep pondering an alarm clock
Apr 30 20:05:44 <lcuk> that once you set it, all BT devices in the room ring
Apr 30 20:05:51 <lcuk> at that time without each needign to be set
Apr 30 20:06:11 <TSCHAKeee> lcuk: interesting. linuxmce has timed events...and I use my joggler as a bed side orbiter.
Apr 30 20:06:20 <lcuk> because everytime I go to hotel I end up setting so many things just to make sure I get up
Apr 30 20:06:20 <TSCHAKeee> my alarm turns on my lights, and the TV.
Apr 30 20:06:34 <TSCHAKeee> *nod*
Apr 30 20:06:59 <CosmoHill> mine is a 20 year old guy
Apr 30 20:07:11 * CosmoHill goes looking for the undo button
Apr 30 20:07:22 <alterego> Great ..
Apr 30 20:07:22 <lcuk> lol
Apr 30 20:07:35 <lcuk> alterego, ad-hoc wifi *does* work
Apr 30 20:07:40 <TSCHAKeee> bluetooth is a wonderful protocol, but jesus christ it's a headache, and it's slow
Apr 30 20:07:44 <lcuk> lardman runs his galaxy tab in meego with it
Apr 30 20:07:48 <mikeleib> ???
Apr 30 20:07:48 <CosmoHill> to finish what I started: he rings or texts me and that wakes me up
Apr 30 20:07:49 <lcuk> but connman does not
Apr 30 20:07:51 <alterego> lcuk: I can't get it to work
Apr 30 20:07:56 <lcuk> console
Apr 30 20:07:57 <Stskeeps> you probably do need to do it manually
Apr 30 20:08:04 <lcuk> yes Stskeeps
Apr 30 20:08:05 <alterego> It says "set failed on blag"
Apr 30 20:08:17 <lcuk> the connman developer said it is relatively simple to implement
Apr 30 20:08:27 <lcuk> but the pause seems to be for WiFi Direct
Apr 30 20:08:28 <alterego> "set failed on device wlan0" when I'm trying to set it to adhoc mode.
Apr 30 20:08:31 <lcuk> which is secured version
Apr 30 20:10:08 <lcuk> read this for info on my travels with wifi ad-hoc stuff:
Apr 30 20:10:09 <lcuk> https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12686#c3
Apr 30 20:10:11 <MeeGoBot> Bug 12686 enh, Undecided, ---, gavin.hindman, RESO REJECTED, [FEA] Wifi Ad-hoc Missing from ConnMan
Apr 30 20:10:34 <lcuk> I saw some movement on one of the related wifi direct bugs
Apr 30 20:10:40 <lcuk> so hopefully that will be fixed :)
Apr 30 20:10:47 <lcuk> soon
Apr 30 20:18:58 <mikeleib> there are people working on wifi direct
Apr 30 20:19:06 * gabrbedd is having to remember how to do a DKMS driver... and again appreciating the TSG/ArchBoard decision to discourage out-of-tree drivers.
Apr 30 20:19:19 <mikeleib> I don't know if that will make adhoc work, but I do know one of the guys doing direct
Apr 30 20:19:48 <mikeleib> I suspect that a conv on the connman list or channel might be helpful
Apr 30 20:19:56 <mikeleib> also... patches always work
Apr 30 20:21:39 <lcuk> mikeleib, yes sameo said that it was possible to do fairly simply
Apr 30 20:21:48 <lcuk> but I suppose like anything it is knowing the codebase
Apr 30 20:22:11 <mikeleib> the connman codebase is not too difficult
Apr 30 20:22:12 <lcuk> on your favourite app source, finding the right line to tweak should be like finding the lightswitch in your house
Apr 30 20:22:30 <lcuk> err unless you just got a new house that it
Apr 30 20:22:39 * mikeleib sometimes had to take it apart to do the connection manager client
Apr 30 20:22:57 <mikeleib> using the connman API gives one a common refrain
Apr 30 20:23:02 <mikeleib> "connman is malware" ;)
Apr 30 20:23:14 <lcuk> mikeleib, then next time you dig, have a read of the conversation me and sameo had and see if you can find the almost trivial bit he mentions
Apr 30 20:23:18 <alterego> I don't care about connman, I just want to do it via the command line.
Apr 30 20:23:29 <alterego> If I can't ssh into my N900 then I can't really do shit with it :/
Apr 30 20:23:31 <mikeleib> kill connman.. then use command line
Apr 30 20:23:48 <mikeleib> alterego: ether gadget?
Apr 30 20:23:49 <alterego> Do you know what commands I'm supposed to yse :P
Apr 30 20:23:54 <alterego> mikeleib: usb fell out
Apr 30 20:24:06 * mikeleib didn't even know that was possible
Apr 30 20:24:40 * mikeleib doesn't know about n900 wifi.. intel wifi uses iwconfig, but not sure about n900 chipset
Apr 30 20:24:45 <alterego> Well, you've obviously not been about much :P
Apr 30 20:24:49 * mikeleib doesn't have an n900
Apr 30 20:25:18 * mikeleib hangs qt-creator
Apr 30 20:25:20 <mikeleib> what crapware
Apr 30 20:26:15 * mikeleib switches back to his beloved emacs
Apr 30 20:30:31 * gabrbedd wonders if there's a Qt code-completion for emacs....
Apr 30 20:32:12 <mikeleib> M-/
Apr 30 20:32:40 <mikeleib> http://alexott.blogspot.com/2009/02/cedet-qt.html
Apr 30 20:34:11 <gabrbedd> mikeleib: I'll try that... but i doubt it gives you parameter hints.  (or does it?)
Apr 30 20:34:41 <gabrbedd> hmmm.... looks like it does.
Apr 30 20:34:54 <mikeleib> semantic/cedet does.  it knows type information
Apr 30 20:36:02 * mikeleib mostly just has assistant in one window anyway.. so M-/ is all I need
Apr 30 20:40:27 * gabrbedd grumbles...
Apr 30 20:41:06 <gabrbedd> I'll have to look into CEDIT later... looks like I gotta install that mode or upgrade emacs to get it automatically.
Apr 30 20:41:13 <gabrbedd> But it looks really cool... thanks.
Apr 30 20:46:00 <mikeleib> emacs23 is so worht it
Apr 30 20:46:08 <mikeleib> and semantic/cedet are include
Apr 30 20:46:10 <mikeleib> d
Apr 30 20:46:17 <mikeleib> also org-mode
Apr 30 20:47:27 <gabrbedd> mikeleib: ok, thanks.  I've got 23.1.1 (and it /is/ nice) -- but CEDIT appeared in 23.2
Apr 30 20:48:13 <gabrbedd> mikeleib: But I've been sticking with Ubuntu 10.04 since (AFAIK) that's the highest MeeGo-supported version.
Apr 30 20:48:19 <mikeleib> oh.. bummer
Apr 30 20:48:40 * lcuk has 10.4 too
Apr 30 20:48:51 <mikeleib> meego trunk has 23.2
Apr 30 20:48:58 <mikeleib> eat yer own dogfood
Apr 30 20:49:01 <gabrbedd> But I see 10.10 in the tools repos... so maybe idunno
Apr 30 20:50:15 <mikeleib> also.. BMC#14650 will make life even better when fixed
Apr 30 20:50:29 <gabrbedd> MeeGoBot: bug 14650
Apr 30 20:50:32 <MeeGoBot> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14650 enh, Low, ---, yan.i.li, ASSI, new upstream version of emacs available
Apr 30 20:50:41 <gabrbedd> ah
Apr 30 20:51:42 <mikeleib> also.. if anybody wants to take BMC#12 off my hands, please stand up
Apr 30 20:51:47 <mikeleib> MeeGoBot: bug 12
Apr 30 20:51:49 <MeeGoBot> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12 enh, Low, ---, michael.leibowitz, ASSI, Package magit required
Apr 30 21:21:58 <alterego> Dialer screenshots: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/meego/screenshots/handset/
Apr 30 21:47:21 <mikhas> alterego, use more padding: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/meego/screenshots/handset/meego-screenshot-handset_20110430_221553.png
Apr 30 21:47:45 <mikhas> distance between keys should be around 6-8px
Apr 30 21:48:39 <alterego> It's just wireframe :P
Apr 30 21:49:02 <alterego> Are you talking about the numberpad
Apr 30 21:49:03 <mikhas> alterego, using Qt components? I think they have reactive areas there, so you wouldn't necessarily lose accuracy for the keys
Apr 30 21:49:03 <alterego> ?
Apr 30 21:49:04 <mikhas> yes
Apr 30 21:49:31 <alterego> No, not using Qt Components, nothing has matured enough for me to take advantage of it yet :/
Apr 30 21:49:39 <alterego> Then plan is to use meego-ux-components
Apr 30 21:50:11 <mikhas> then this whole we-replace-lmt-with-plain-qml is not worth it
Apr 30 21:50:54 <mikhas> Qt components I could understand, plain QML ... seems like too much effort, for what gain exactly?
Apr 30 21:51:13 <thiago_home> keep the current code until components is ready
Apr 30 21:51:15 <alterego> I'm using plain QML in the absence of any components.
Apr 30 21:51:16 <thiago_home> no need to port twice
Apr 30 21:51:20 <alterego> Exactly
Apr 30 21:52:09 <mikhas> there is no need to port at all, if we would be realistic, but whatever
Apr 30 21:52:17 <thiago_home> indeed
Apr 30 21:52:40 <alterego> Well, we don't have anyway to theme it currently.
Apr 30 21:52:47 <alterego> So that code is statically styled.
Apr 30 21:52:56 <alterego> Well, semi-static-styled
Apr 30 21:53:01 <mikhas> we have bigger problems than going into a rewrite binge
Apr 30 21:53:10 <mikhas> but that's just my view
Apr 30 21:54:07 <sivang> but qt components is getting there right?
Apr 30 21:54:15 <sivang> at least so I think I heared a few days ago...
Apr 30 21:54:29 <thiago_home> yes
Apr 30 21:54:41 <mikhas> Qt components looks promising, but even that rewrite was unnecessary
Apr 30 21:54:49 <alterego> Maybe, I've not decided whether to use Qt Components or MeeGo UX Components
Apr 30 21:55:12 <sivang> What's MeeGo UX components?
Apr 30 21:55:13 <mikhas> (a rewrite from QWidget UI to QML for handset, yes, go for it. a rewrite from LMT to QML? pointless)
Apr 30 21:55:13 <alterego> The point is, it's up to ISVs really, as a reference app it would make sense doing it in MeeGo UX Components.
Apr 30 21:55:16 <sivang> qml based?
Apr 30 21:55:27 <alterego> sivang: yes, it's the QML widgetset that the tablet ux uses.
Apr 30 21:55:34 <sivang> alterego: ah, okay
Apr 30 21:55:36 <alterego> Based on Qt Components
Apr 30 21:55:48 <alterego> Hopefully they'll realign before 1.3 :)
Apr 30 21:55:49 <sivang> I was afraid something new sprung into existence and I'm too out of touch.
Apr 30 21:56:02 <sivang> based on a snapshot of qt comps from when?
Apr 30 21:56:24 <sivang> mikhas: LMT?
Apr 30 21:56:29 <thiago_home> MTF
Apr 30 21:56:33 <mikhas> MeeGo Touch
Apr 30 21:56:40 <sivang> ouch
Apr 30 21:56:45 <sivang> meego touch..
Apr 30 21:56:46 <mikhas> MTF sounds too much like WTF, marketing fail
Apr 30 21:56:52 <sivang> haha
Apr 30 21:56:54 <alterego> Heh
Apr 30 21:56:55 <thiago_home> WTF is part of webkit
Apr 30 21:56:57 <sivang> mikhas: not only :-p
Apr 30 21:57:07 <thiago_home> besides, who cares about marketing for MTF? :-)
Apr 30 21:57:20 <mikhas> thiago_home, it was bad marketing that killed it, no?
Apr 30 21:57:28 <thiago_home> no
Apr 30 21:57:34 <sivang> thiago_home: do you happen to know if WebKit in Qt on Symbian Anna shall support HTTP Live / HTTP streaming ?
Apr 30 21:57:44 <CosmoHill> if you skip the T the first word could be mother :/
Apr 30 21:57:51 <thiago_home> sivang: if it's supported anywhere, it'll be supported there.
Apr 30 21:58:21 <sivang> thiago_home: how can we find out positively? ask webkit upstream? What version of webkit are we using in qt?
Apr 30 21:58:28 <thiago_home> ask #qtwebkit
Apr 30 21:58:29 <mikhas> sorry but saying that QML is better than LMT for handset is pure marketing nonsense. integration for LMT is much better.
Apr 30 21:58:47 <sivang> why again is it called LMT now?
Apr 30 21:58:51 <sivang> instead of MTF?
Apr 30 21:58:51 <mikhas> libmeegotouch
Apr 30 21:58:56 <thiago_home> we're using QtWebKit 2.0 in Qt 4.7; there's 2.1 for Harmattan and then there's 2.2 coming soon
Apr 30 21:58:58 <sivang> ah, k, cool
Apr 30 21:59:19 <mikhas> MTF is more than just libmeegotouch, technically spoken
Apr 30 21:59:24 <thiago_home> mikhas: indeed
Apr 30 21:59:39 <mikhas> the mistake is that everything using just a single bit *from* LMT is called MTF
Apr 30 21:59:43 <thiago_home> the big problem for MTF is that its widgets are C++ sitting on top of Graphics View
Apr 30 21:59:47 <thiago_home> that's the big issue
Apr 30 21:59:53 <mikhas> and that's how our keyboard got on Intel's kill list, for example
Apr 30 22:00:34 <alterego> Why is C++ ontop of QGV an issue?
Apr 30 22:00:46 <alterego> MTF is nice technology, QML is just easier
Apr 30 22:00:47 <thiago_home> because the replacement for GV isn't binary compatible
Apr 30 22:00:53 <alterego> Oh
Apr 30 22:00:58 <alterego> There's a GV replacement?
Apr 30 22:01:07 <sivang> SceneView no?
Apr 30 22:01:11 <thiago_home> QML code transitions without a hitch; C++ code needs to be rewritten.
Apr 30 22:01:11 <sivang> QSceneView or so?
Apr 30 22:01:14 <thiago_home> Scene Graph
Apr 30 22:01:17 <sivang> err
Apr 30 22:01:19 <sivang> graph :-p
Apr 30 22:01:21 <sivang> yeah
Apr 30 22:01:25 <alterego> Ah, right, yes, the Scene Graph stuff
Apr 30 22:01:29 <alterego> Is that Qt 5?
Apr 30 22:01:33 <alterego> Or 4.8 ?
Apr 30 22:01:40 <thiago_home> it is available to work on top of 4.8
Apr 30 22:01:45 <sivang> why is the graph stuff better? (better utilization or bare metal utilization of accelerated hardware?)
Apr 30 22:01:46 <mikhas> but that's the problem
Apr 30 22:01:54 <mikhas> you cannot base a product on future stuff
Apr 30 22:02:02 <thiago_home> it's doing OpenGL the way that OpenGL was inteded to be used
Apr 30 22:02:25 <mikhas> and yet we managed to get LMT performance good enough, eventually
Apr 30 22:02:33 <thiago_home> on one device
Apr 30 22:02:33 <mikhas> the story that people wont tell you
Apr 30 22:02:49 <mikhas> yeah well, QML is slower than LMT
Apr 30 22:02:58 <mikhas> they come asking for our hacks
Apr 30 22:03:03 <mikhas> so there
Apr 30 22:03:14 <thiago_home> that's not what I see in Oslo
Apr 30 22:03:26 <mikhas> and scene graph is not there yet, so QML stays slower for a bit
Apr 30 22:03:36 <mikhas> well, products need *released* software
Apr 30 22:03:38 <thiago_home> 60 fps overlay drawing on live video playing with 20% CPU
Apr 30 22:03:51 <mikhas> peanuts
Apr 30 22:03:53 <mikhas> =p
Apr 30 22:04:08 <thiago_home> on Symbian-level hardware
Apr 30 22:04:10 <sivang> thiago_home: the HTTP live stuff is required to deliver streaming content in Israel today, all content providers use it and I've been contacted by folks to ask if it is supported on Symbian to see if it would be worthwhile to migrate to qt..
Apr 30 22:04:27 <sivang> thiago_home: this is OT here, can I forward you the email I sent to my FN contacts and others getting no response?
Apr 30 22:04:47 <sivang> thiago_home: would be a great help. The official distributor here contacted me about that...
Apr 30 22:04:54 <thiago_home> sivang: I'm not sure I can help, as I don't even understand what the requirement is.
Apr 30 22:05:10 <sivang> thiago_home: see the email, if you have nothing to add, just ignore it.
Apr 30 22:05:15 <thiago_home> mikhas: anyway, yes, you need released stuff. That's why I said don't port now.
Apr 30 22:05:28 <thiago_home> wait until a good replacement exists, if any porting is to be done.
Apr 30 22:05:30 * sivang asks for forgiveness for the terrible OTness
Apr 30 22:06:02 <mikhas> yep
Apr 30 22:08:24 <sivang> thiago_home: you still work on qt for Nokia right? :)
Apr 30 22:08:34 <thiago_home> yes
Apr 30 22:08:42 <thiago_home> I still work on Qt for Nokia
Apr 30 22:08:48 * sivang wipes sweat off head :-)
Apr 30 22:09:07 <mikhas> sivang, dont be so scared
Apr 30 22:09:25 <sivang> mikhas: I won't :)
Apr 30 22:09:39 <mikhas> even if you took Intel and Nokia away, there would still be people working on MeeGo, Qt, whatever
Apr 30 22:09:50 * thiago_home has no plans of stopping work on Qt
Apr 30 22:10:07 <mikhas> I see what GNOME manages to pull off with a handful of people (granted they get paid by companies, but still)
Apr 30 22:10:19 <sivang> yes, but let's not even think of Intel going away from MeeGo, at least not at this easly stag.
Apr 30 22:10:27 <sivang> *stage
Apr 30 22:10:29 <mikhas> sivang, you are scared again
Apr 30 22:10:34 <sivang> heh
Apr 30 22:10:37 <sivang> okay, I'll stop.
Apr 30 22:10:39 <sivang> :)
Apr 30 22:10:50 <mikhas> it would not kill MeeGo, not at all
Apr 30 22:11:12 <sivang> are LG investing into it, or you rely just on the individuals like us working on it?
Apr 30 22:11:17 <sivang> :)
Apr 30 22:11:20 <mikhas> bad products and bad decisions, too many delays, that's what can kill it
Apr 30 22:11:34 <CosmoHill> sounds like Duke Nukem Forever
Apr 30 22:11:37 <mikhas> sivang, I am saying: dont underestimate *people*, dont overestimate *companies*
Apr 30 22:11:46 <sivang> true.
Apr 30 22:11:53 <sivang> See Debian
Apr 30 22:12:15 <sivang> mikhas: true, let's hope we won't see much of those anymore
Apr 30 22:12:26 <sivang> (bad productws, bad decisions, bad execution)
Apr 30 22:14:05 <thiago_home> hey, not even Duke Nukem is dead
Apr 30 22:14:18 * w00t_ is with thiago_home
Apr 30 22:14:40 <w00t_> I have too much fun with Qt to stop using it :-)
Apr 30 22:15:02 * alterego agrees
Apr 30 22:15:51 <CosmoHill> if I had the skills I'd like to make some modifications to Qt, more speifically Qmake on mac
Apr 30 22:16:44 <thiago_home> CosmoHill: we'd like to get rid of qmake
Apr 30 22:16:59 <CosmoHill> even better
Apr 30 22:17:18 <mikhas> thiago_home, <3
Apr 30 22:17:26 <CosmoHill> I just used it to make a .pro file and then a Makefile, which I then had to edit so it would actually compile
Apr 30 22:17:33 <mikhas> if only it was better documented ... =p
Apr 30 22:17:55 <mikhas> and if qmake -d was readable (try qmake -d -d -d for fun!)
Apr 30 22:18:10 <thiago_home> if only qmake's source code were readable...
Apr 30 22:18:23 <thiago_home> qmake was written in C++ to do what a perl script (tmake) did
Apr 30 22:18:26 <CosmoHill> vi qmake.cc
Apr 30 22:18:32 <CosmoHill> dG
Apr 30 22:18:34 <CosmoHill> :wq
Apr 30 22:18:46 <CosmoHill> (or is it "dgg"?)
Apr 30 22:18:46 <mikhas> :-)
Apr 30 22:18:49 <w00t_> thiago_home: it's not *that* bad.. well, I've seen worse.. but it's not good either :-)
Apr 30 22:18:59 <thiago_home> I've seen worse too
Apr 30 22:19:03 <thiago_home> like make's source code
Apr 30 22:19:04 <w00t_> CosmoHill: I'd ggVgd
Apr 30 22:19:14 <thiago_home> iddqd
Apr 30 22:19:15 <CosmoHill> Good Game, Very Good
Apr 30 22:19:43 <w00t_> VG*
Apr 30 22:19:53 <w00t_> and I guess the leading 'gg' isn't needed if you only just opened it...
Apr 30 22:19:56 <CosmoHill> you know that joke where the source code roads: "if(true) { something} else {same thing}
Apr 30 22:20:14 <CosmoHill> it's not so funny when it's your own code
Apr 30 22:20:43 <sivang> thiago_home: got the email?
Apr 30 22:21:01 <sivang> thiago_home: use plain autotools?
Apr 30 22:21:17 <w00t_> I doubt it
Apr 30 22:21:34 <w00t_> that's not really conducive to being cross platform
Apr 30 22:21:49 <thiago_home> got the email
Apr 30 22:21:56 <CosmoHill> qmake makes i386 binaries on my powerpc mac -.-
Apr 30 22:21:57 <thiago_home> no, the solution is another in-house system
Apr 30 22:21:57 <sivang> so how can qmake be red of?
Apr 30 22:22:03 <thiago_home> qbs
Apr 30 22:22:08 <sivang> qbs?
Apr 30 22:22:10 <sivang> oh
Apr 30 22:22:11 <thiago_home> yes
Apr 30 22:22:18 <sivang> qt build system
Apr 30 22:22:21 <sivang> in python?
Apr 30 22:22:24 <thiago_home> in QML
Apr 30 22:22:32 <sivang> seriously?
Apr 30 22:22:34 <thiago_home> yes
Apr 30 22:22:41 <thiago_home> the project files would be QML
Apr 30 22:22:42 <sivang> isn't QML just for UX ?
Apr 30 22:22:47 <thiago_home> QML is a language
Apr 30 22:22:52 <w00t_> QML is .. what he said
Apr 30 22:22:53 <sivang> yes, I know
Apr 30 22:22:59 <w00t_> nothing stops it being used elsewhere
Apr 30 22:23:05 <sivang> ofcourse not.
Apr 30 22:23:08 <CosmoHill> Questionable Markup Language?
Apr 30 22:23:17 <sivang> I'd say use SCons instead of re-inventing so many wheels
Apr 30 22:23:23 <thiago_home> I just don't know how we're going to use QML to build the libraries that interpret QML
Apr 30 22:23:24 <berndhs> as long as it doesnt rely on an IDE
Apr 30 22:23:40 <sivang> berndhs++
Apr 30 22:23:41 * CosmoHill realises that he's been getting QML confused with UML these past weeks
Apr 30 22:23:51 <w00t_> thiago_home: how does gcc compile gcc? :-)
Apr 30 22:23:59 <thiago_home> w00t_: it bootstraps itself
Apr 30 22:24:10 <thiago_home> there's a first stage that is compilable by any C compiler
Apr 30 22:24:13 <w00t_> really?
Apr 30 22:24:27 <thiago_home> the second stage builds a real gcc
Apr 30 22:24:33 <thiago_home> then it runs a third time to build gcc with gcc
Apr 30 22:24:34 <w00t_> I thought it used any compiler to compile gcc, then you did a fresh build with the new compiler
Apr 30 22:24:37 <w00t_> right
Apr 30 22:24:41 <sivang> that's how every self intepreting languages work no?
Apr 30 22:24:56 <sivang> w00t_: when you bootstrap a toolchain, this is the same process
Apr 30 22:25:08 <sivang> w00t_: when you want to create a pure soft float tool chain for example :)
Apr 30 22:25:20 <sivang> or self- soemthing, forgot the scientific term
Apr 30 22:25:39 <thiago_home> self-hosted
Apr 30 22:25:43 <sivang> right, thank you
Apr 30 22:26:06 <thiago_home> but even then some things are bootstrappable from elsewhereg
Apr 30 22:26:12 <thiago_home> gcc can be built with other C compilers
Apr 30 22:26:19 <thiago_home> tar is shipped in a shar
Apr 30 22:26:21 <sivang> thiago_home: you shold also be able to use a differnet linker, for the bootstrapping of the monolithic compiler
Apr 30 22:26:22 <w00t_> symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/egl/egl_dri2.so: undefined symbol: _glapi_get_proc_address
Apr 30 22:26:28 <w00t_> I think something is broken here :-)
Apr 30 22:26:31 <thiago_home> until a short while ago, gzip was available in a compress archive
Apr 30 22:29:53 * w00t_ hrms
Apr 30 22:31:15 <w00t_> I wonder what that's about
Apr 30 22:31:30 <w00t_> the only reference I can find to it is openvg, and I'm definitely not doing anything related to openvg
Apr 30 22:38:54 <lbt> phaeron: python lets you
Apr 30 22:39:10 <lbt> try it
Apr 30 22:39:47 <sivang> w00t_: rebuild?
Apr 30 22:40:05 <phaeron> lbt: hop
Apr 30 22:42:07 <sivang> thiago_home: why not use something already existing and standard in open source as a build system?
Apr 30 22:43:27 <w00t_> most likely answer: doesn't meet requirements
Apr 30 22:43:38 <w00t_> (and is too difficult to make meet them)
Apr 30 22:46:07 <sivang> w00t_: I'm just trying to think up the world with yet-another-build-system :)
Apr 30 22:46:29 <sivang> w00t_: but you are right. I guess most of the stuff was more suited at 70's software
Apr 30 22:46:43 <sivang> but SCons is rather an amazing take of modern configuratio and build system.
Apr 30 22:47:08 <sivang> I would recommend everybody who knows a bit of python to use it. It allows great flexability.
Apr 30 22:48:21 <berndhs> i tried scons, something about it caused really negative feelings :)
Apr 30 22:50:35 <sivang> berndhs: like?
Apr 30 22:50:46 <berndhs> i dont remember, honestly
Apr 30 22:50:50 * sivang finds qmake nice and magical
Apr 30 22:50:56 <sivang> I cd to a source tree, qmake
Apr 30 22:51:02 <sivang> and things just happens :)
Apr 30 22:51:21 <sivang> berndhs: have you ever used couchdb?
Apr 30 22:51:33 <berndhs> dont think so
Apr 30 22:51:44 <sivang> okay. If you do, it'd feel funkey at start.
Apr 30 22:51:53 <sivang> Once you get used to it, you can't imagine your life without it.
Apr 30 22:51:55 <sivang> :-p
Apr 30 22:52:01 <sivang> funky
Apr 30 22:52:03 <sivang> *
Apr 30 22:52:13 <berndhs> i like declarative stuff for builds, here are the sources, thats what i want to make
Apr 30 22:52:51 <berndhs> i dont want to say how to find things
Apr 30 22:54:55 <sivang> you don't with scons.
Apr 30 22:55:16 <sivang> you do need to say what you want to build, that's granted.
Apr 30 22:55:27 <berndhs> maybe it was one of those python things, you had to get past pages of how elegant it is, before the docs tell you anything
Apr 30 22:55:36 <sivang> hehe
Apr 30 22:55:41 <sivang> berndhs: "Zen"
Apr 30 22:55:41 <sivang> :-p
Apr 30 22:55:43 <berndhs> i hate that about python
Apr 30 22:56:04 <berndhs> its no more elegant than anything else
Apr 30 22:56:25 <sivang> well, explicit is better than implicit
Apr 30 22:56:26 <sivang> :)
Apr 30 22:56:40 <sivang> there should be one, and only one way to do it..
Apr 30 22:56:41 <sivang> :)
Apr 30 22:56:45 <sivang> anyway, I need to get some sleep.
Apr 30 22:56:47 <berndhs> assigning meaning to blank spaces is just dumb
Apr 30 22:56:48 <sivang> keep the faith people.
Apr 30 22:57:00 <sivang> berndhs: this sounds like perl
Apr 30 22:57:07 <berndhs> dream about something positive :)
Apr 30 22:57:15 <sivang> will do :)
Apr 30 22:57:34 * sivang will dream of SF meego conference that a handset device will be announced there
Apr 30 22:57:49 <sivang> running meego and only qt
Apr 30 22:57:51 <sivang> :-p
Apr 30 22:57:56 <berndhs> :)
Apr 30 22:58:02 <sivang> night berndhs
Apr 30 22:58:06 <sivang> (others)
Apr 30 22:58:14 <lbt> o/
Apr 30 23:07:14 <mikhas> only Qt? means you are not allowed to use Chrome browser or regular Fennec, good luck
Apr 30 23:07:39 * mikhas does not understand why people like to restrict their own freedom
May 01 00:12:36 <CosmoHill> cyas
May 01 00:19:36 <npm> so meego nebook 1.2 now seems to have a "flickr" capability in "add web accounts" ... so i'm logged in to flickr through it successfully... now what?
May 01 00:22:42 <npm> (when i logged in to flicker it said something about "Fedora Mojito" not MeeGo or Moblin Mojito)
May 01 00:24:28 <npm> oh wait i forgot about my specially added key /usr/share/libsocialweb/keys/flickr
May 01 00:24:48 <npm> i guess it knows where i got it from :-)
May 01 00:27:53 <berndhs> yeah it knows where you've been
May 01 01:18:59 <akk> Anybody installed qtcreator via repo.meego.com on Ubuntu natty? I'm trying to add the Qt version for the local machine and getting "Qt version is not properly installed, please run make install"
May 01 01:19:12 <akk> and running make install doesn't sound like a safe idea for something I installed with apt-get
May 01 01:19:45 <akk> This is in the "Using the MeeGo SDK Qt version" step on http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux#Installing_the_MeeGo_SDK
May 01 01:21:38 <akk> I do have a qmake in /opt/meego/meego-sdk-qt/bin/qmake, but maybe the problem is that it's from http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/sdk/host/repos/ubuntu/10.10/ because there's no 11.04 there yet.
May 01 01:47:19 <mikeleib> zypper in qt-creator
May 01 01:47:34 <mikeleib> ;)
May 01 01:51:01 <akk> Was that to me? Sorry, I'm new to qtcreator so I'm not sure. (Isn't zypper like an RPM equivalent of apt-get?)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 01 02:59:58 2011