**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun May 15 02:59:59 2011 May 15 03:02:14 g'night May 15 07:49:28 morning folks \o May 15 07:49:40 anything good on yesterdays -de image? May 15 07:56:52 can I install hildon-desktop on my ubuntu system ? May 15 08:01:37 Evanescence, have you checked if it is in the repositories? May 15 08:02:44 lcuk: yeah, I can search it, but I am worry about whether it will destroy my Gnome May 15 08:03:08 lcuk: Or whether it will display good on my laptop May 15 08:03:54 Evanescence, anything is possible. May 15 08:04:12 lcuk: ok, test it, May 15 08:04:13 Evanescence, even without installing hildon your laptop might screw up May 15 08:04:35 so backup your system, see if there are any instructions and have a go May 15 08:05:06 it is easier to just install meego though :) May 15 08:05:12 the images are all usb bootable May 15 08:05:24 and there is a hildon flavour called cordia :) May 15 08:06:01 lcuk: thanks, i will backup and find manual or help doc May 15 08:06:06 Evanescence finding yourself a usb bootable cordiia would let you see how hildon would work without messing with your harddisk May 15 08:06:37 lcuk: good idea May 15 08:06:48 * lcuk nods May 15 08:37:43 morning May 15 08:42:16 morning iekku \o May 15 08:42:44 mrnong lcuk \o May 15 08:43:00 (oh, need some coffee :P ) May 15 08:43:41 we all need some coffee May 15 08:47:50 :D May 15 09:18:22 * lcuk charges his lazers errr n900 May 15 10:14:21 hello world May 15 16:52:38 * lcuk assumes this is correct page for packaging nowadays May 15 16:52:40 http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.0/Packaging_MeeGo_applications May 15 16:58:06 * lcuk thinks there are many difficult steps for packaging! May 15 16:58:21 Venemo, where is puzzle master, since that has all this done for many platforms now? May 15 16:58:46 * lcuk ponders being able to use that as a template for an "easy-packager script or somesuch May 15 16:58:47 lcuk: dunno if things have changed since 1.0 May 15 16:59:00 most likely they have May 15 16:59:03 timoph, well, there isn't a page for 1.1 or 1.2 (I tried to find one) May 15 16:59:36 http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Guidelines May 15 16:59:37 and I can't seem to find anything in qt-creator itself May 15 16:59:40 check that May 15 17:00:55 * timoph needs to go. bbl May 15 17:01:32 thanks timoph \o cya later May 15 18:40:48 DawnFoster, where are your recipe pages? May 15 18:40:55 are they on a wiki? May 15 18:41:35 and would it be feasible to make a community effort to make a proper meego based recipe app under your direction? May 15 18:47:13 lcuk: my recipes are on a blog (only a few so far) http://whatdawneats.com/ May 15 18:47:28 until I can get the cookbook published in a month or so May 15 18:47:45 oooh awesome May 15 18:47:59 yeah, I'm working on final layout today May 15 18:48:13 hoping to send it to the printer to get a proof copy May 15 18:48:22 (self-publishing) May 15 18:48:52 that is good, DawnFoster so you are having it printed up as a proper book? May 15 18:49:03 lcuk: yep May 15 18:49:08 meego cook book ap would be nice as well May 15 18:49:13 :D awesome May 15 18:49:15 this is the second print book I've done May 15 18:49:30 also did this one: http://fastwonderblog.com/ebooks/ May 15 18:49:32 oops May 15 18:49:37 http://fastwonderblog.com/ebooks/ May 15 18:49:46 it's even on amazon :) May 15 18:50:03 Ronksu, well there is fiferboy who has a great core database application that I bet could get involved with helping a recipe version May 15 18:50:15 \o/ DawnFoster May 15 18:56:12 btw, I think a recipe app for meego would be very cool :) May 15 18:58:39 * CosmoHill gets his results back on wednesday :D May 15 19:00:58 [18:55] Venemo, where is puzzle master, since that has all this done for many platforms now? ---> https://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/puzzle-master May 15 19:01:34 Venemo, \o thx May 15 19:01:38 did you get your email> May 15 19:01:39 ? May 15 19:01:54 CosmoHill, confirming you are human? May 15 19:02:18 lcuk, yes I did May 15 19:02:20 lol May 15 19:02:35 DawnFoster, a good simple updatable recipe app would really be useful and practical for folks May 15 19:02:42 for this year's unisersity semester May 15 19:03:14 I dont want another recipe app, I want an app that cooks for me :-( May 15 19:03:57 just alter the cpu frequency scaling and put pot on top of device May 15 19:04:04 mikhas, bug 7790 should help, just slide out the keyboard, put a rasher of bacon on and bootup meego May 15 19:04:07 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7790 cri, Medium, 1.0.90.4, ext-kimmo.jukarainen, ASSI, [META]N900 turns warm quickly after boot May 15 19:05:33 :-) May 15 19:06:10 lcuk, you got your answer :) May 15 19:06:54 cool Venemo, was just pondering May 15 19:07:10 lcuk, in the meantime I learned that Qt Creator can automatically create rpms for MeeGo (although I never tried that feature) May 15 19:07:24 oh, which menu options etc? May 15 19:07:36 * lcuk opens qt creator May 15 19:07:55 well, if you set the target to meego and use the INSTALLS variable, I think it defaults to RPM May 15 19:08:35 I just opened qt-creator, selected to make a qt quick application, did some playing May 15 19:08:53 now I want to get that on meego, but it does not have anything related to meego in there May 15 19:08:59 okay, go to Tools/Options May 15 19:09:02 which qt sdk is needed specifically? May 15 19:09:13 * lcuk opens tools/options May 15 19:09:43 I just use Qt Creator 2.2 final (from the upstream version) with madde installed (from MeeGo SDK repo) May 15 19:10:17 hm, this is qt-creator 2.1 May 15 19:12:03 http://www.intomobile.com/2011/05/10/nokias-qt-sdk-11-out/ May 15 19:13:05 I believe that was the post and instructions I followed which got me the 1.1 sdk which is the one with Qt Quick app development inside May 15 19:13:49 mhm May 15 19:14:36 and qt creator 2.2 is marked as RC on the http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/ page May 15 19:15:15 qtcreator 2.2 is more recent than any sdk May 15 19:15:21 lcuk, according to a mailing list message from achipa, the final is already released. maybe that page is not up-to-date May 15 19:15:54 lcuk, I made you screenshots: http://i55.tinypic.com/sflavl.jpg and http://i51.tinypic.com/2zio3gi.jpg May 15 19:16:05 http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/05/06/qt-creator-2-2-released/ May 15 19:17:17 lcuk, see ftp://ftp.qt.nokia.com/qtcreator/ -> download 2.2.0 (the one without any -beta and -rc marking) May 15 19:17:25 2.2 is out, the download page is out of date May 15 19:17:41 (don't ask :) ) May 15 19:18:39 achipa, well I won't ask, but could you file a bug about it in the morning? (or check if there is one) May 15 19:19:16 What's 2.2 like? May 15 19:19:18 lcuk: long story, but is in progress already May 15 19:19:25 alterego: see the blog above May 15 19:19:26 ok reasonable enough May 15 19:19:28 alterego: bigger, better, uncut... May 15 19:19:42 :) May 15 19:19:52 alterego, http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2011-May/028345.html May 15 19:19:58 Venemo, thanks for the screenshots, when I update to the next build I will be able to use them May 15 19:20:04 I should probably grab it then, think I need it for conference anyway. May 15 19:20:14 lcuk, you can just download from the page I link :) May 15 19:20:44 lcuk, I think when you select "MeeGo" then it will generate rpms. achipa, is that correct? May 15 19:20:47 Venemo, I am in the middle of other stuff but will try to this evening May 15 19:20:53 okay :) May 15 19:21:16 Venemo: lcuk: correct, if you have the required tools May 15 19:21:26 i.e. the meego sdk packages, etc May 15 19:21:39 neat May 15 19:21:49 that sounds nice May 15 19:23:06 indeed it does :) May 15 19:23:35 achipa, requiring specific sdks per development target still seems a bit odd May 15 19:23:48 as in "code once, deploy anywhere" ;) May 15 19:24:20 lcuk: that's just a question of integration, qtcreator is not an SDK in itself May 15 19:24:29 lcuk, lemme correct you. "code once, #ifdef everywhere" May 15 19:24:33 achipa, sure thing May 15 19:24:35 haha May 15 19:24:40 and you should know Venemo ! May 15 19:24:59 are you going for most OSes supported for your app? May 15 19:25:11 yes, when I can May 15 19:25:18 puzzle-master.zx81 May 15 19:25:23 hahah May 15 19:25:30 I suppose I should test it with DE :) May 15 19:25:30 if zx81 can run Qt, then sure May 15 19:25:39 lcuk: my last project had 7 targets... gone crosseyed May 15 19:25:55 lcuk, there are minor differences between each platform, some of which Qt can't take care of on its own. May 15 19:25:57 why crosseyed? May 15 19:26:30 Venemo, are they categorizable? May 15 19:26:40 ie is there specific things which always need ifdefing May 15 19:26:44 or is it just random bits May 15 19:27:39 lcuk: self-inflicted, really, as the goal was to have a single package that runs on all targets and all Qt versions and adjusts features dynamically May 15 19:27:54 achipa, sounds like what Venemo has done! May 15 19:28:05 well, on Symbian QWidget-based stuff looks awful. this can be compensated by some stuff, like using softkeys and the like. also Qt's file open dialog looks _very_ ugly, so you need to call the native one. May 15 19:28:11 a nice simple usable game which does exactly that May 15 19:28:18 I'm not sure why Qt doesn't call the native dialog in that case. May 15 19:28:21 i.e. when you start it on a system with qt4.6, you get a qwidget interface, when you're on a 4.7 one, you get the declarative ui May 15 19:28:48 (emphasizing this is done *dynamically*, i.e. same binaries, no recompile) May 15 19:28:50 achipa, n-tier development! May 15 19:29:10 achipa, but is that how users and app designers would do it? May 15 19:29:19 achipa, did you get your visa sorted? May 15 19:29:35 achipa, I would be interested in how to check the availability of QtMobility in such a dynamic manner. May 15 19:29:41 ie, they have a qt4.6 app which uses qwidget, what beneift would it give rebuilding the top layer in declarative? May 15 19:30:13 Venemo: well, if you want the 'dumb' version, check qtinfo's divineMobilityVersion function May 15 19:30:31 achipa, what do you mean, 'dumb'? May 15 19:30:34 * lcuk understands the movement to declarative for apps, but rebuilding the UI just because next gen exists for instance May 15 19:30:34 GAN900: yes, suprisingly May 15 19:30:54 Venemo: not through a reasonable API, but by hackery May 15 19:30:59 lcuk, for the most part, the answer is "because you can" May 15 19:31:03 achipa, excellent. May 15 19:31:31 Venemo, yeah I know you can and I am enjoying the bits of qml I am tinkering with May 15 19:31:46 achipa, what is qtinfo? A search in Qt Assistant's index didn't reveal anything May 15 19:32:04 lcuk: qwidgets are, for better or worse, dead on the mobile platforms, i.e. it's not a question of want, you must move on May 15 19:32:39 Venemo: https://projects.forum.nokia.com/qtinfo May 15 19:32:50 achipa, is there an alternative to the Qt Graphics View framework that QML can give me? with an equally as good API? May 15 19:33:19 achipa, even with QML, don't you still need to use qwidgets for low level stuff? May 15 19:33:38 ie for uber quick c++ native rendering/calculation stuff (for instance) May 15 19:34:17 you need one widget, the top-level window May 15 19:34:23 that's all May 15 19:34:29 thiago, need is one thing May 15 19:34:41 Venemo: qtgraphicsview is fairly unrelated to qwidgets, you do your stuff in whicever, but qgv receives less attention nowadays May 15 19:34:49 there are other means of getting native-looking "widgets", for example as provided by the various QML components projects May 15 19:34:51 but when you make super qml app that needs to do (for instance) mandelbrot fractal rendering May 15 19:34:56 lcuk: define low level ? May 15 19:35:05 that is practically impossible in QML/script May 15 19:35:08 right May 15 19:35:18 achipa, QGraphicsView is a QWidget subclass. that makes it in my book "fairly _related_" to QWidgets. May 15 19:35:20 qml isn't "one-size fits all" May 15 19:35:21 so you would make a qwidget and use native c++ May 15 19:35:23 you can do all kinds of things in Qt-C++ still without using widgets, like models and data structures May 15 19:35:29 thiago, I know it is now May 15 19:35:31 not* May 15 19:36:01 I was just querying the message achipa said that qwidget was unusable, it still has a place May 15 19:36:08 lcuk, I think you can make your own component for that in C++, without a QWidget. May 15 19:36:18 the problem with QWidget is actually QStyle May 15 19:36:27 it will not make the look-and-feel that we want on modern devices May 15 19:36:36 Venemo: and qdeclarativeview is a qgraphicsview subclass... but that's not the point May 15 19:36:43 so widgets have their place, but for us in MeeGo, it's very limited May 15 19:36:45 I think we're talking about two things here May 15 19:36:56 thiago, sure but style is not everything, especially for as described, a whole widget math calculation or game etc May 15 19:36:59 achipa, okay, enlighten me please May 15 19:37:01 one, QWidgets as a common back-end for putting things on screen May 15 19:37:14 and two, a set of UI elements May 15 19:37:19 lcuk: you're more likely to use Graphics View then May 15 19:37:39 thiago, I can happily see a whole fractal app being put together using QML, with just the main fractl rendering engine itself in qwidget May 15 19:37:47 or graphics view etc May 15 19:38:03 I might be getting terms mixed up, but I think you know what I mean May 15 19:38:33 achipa, well, according to a presentation I recently watched, QWidgets will not be part of the default installation of Qt on mobile devices. so then, QGraphicsView is a QWidget (and the declarative view derives from that), so it seems like a bit of a contradiction to me May 15 19:38:55 Venemo: for Qt 5 May 15 19:38:59 thiago, indeed May 15 19:39:06 we've begun work to move the widgets to a separate lib May 15 19:39:21 the top-level window will simply be a QWindow or something similar May 15 19:39:22 so, what is the future-proof approach to an app that currently uses QGV? May 15 19:39:39 Venemo, there is no such thing as future proof. May 15 19:39:46 Venemo: the point is there is some aggregation of functionality between the two things I mentioned above - this is recognized as a problem, and is one of the drivers of changing the position of QWidgets (the UI elements) within Qt May 15 19:39:53 Venemo: QGV May 15 19:39:57 Venemo: keep using QGV May 15 19:40:08 Venemo: it has its uses. And we're not removing the classes. Just moving them to a separate lib. May 15 19:40:12 to make a smaller GUI core May 15 19:40:27 smaller, lighter, faster! May 15 19:40:27 so QGV will still be there and working on a default Qt installation, or my users will have to install the separate lib for it to work? May 15 19:40:43 thiago, I gather that will help link times too ! May 15 19:40:45 at this point, Qt 5 is just ideas May 15 19:41:03 well, the version number has changed... May 15 19:41:10 but anyway, we're one year away May 15 19:41:23 lcuk: if you don't load the other library, yes. If you do, it will be worse. May 15 19:41:45 Venemo: define separate lib... is declarative a separate lib ? it's not going to be more separate than that May 15 19:41:51 thiago, according to this guy http://blip.tv/file/5122502 Qt 5 is a bit more than "just ideas". May 15 19:42:04 achipa, the question is simple. May 15 19:42:22 achipa, will they be able to run a QGV-based app on a default installation or not? May 15 19:42:35 Venemo: the fact that we took the source code and changed #define QT_VERSION doesn't mean much May 15 19:42:39 we have ideas for the future May 15 19:42:53 okay, sounds fair enough to me May 15 19:42:54 those ideas are taking shape May 15 19:42:58 :) May 15 19:43:16 btw, my blog still on meego.com homepage has more info May 15 19:43:35 thiago, okay, I'm checking it out May 15 19:44:45 anyway, for this particular app, I doubt that I will ever replace QWidgets. but I'm looking for new ways for my upcoming apps :) and I'm looking for a future-proof way. May 15 19:47:58 thiago, link! May 15 19:48:16 and yeah I know, I recall your other blogs about it all May 15 19:48:20 * lcuk most informed May 15 19:48:20 lcuk: http://meego.com :-) May 15 19:48:28 it's on the homepage May 15 19:48:50 lcuk, http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/05/13/qt-5-at-the-meego-conference/ May 15 19:48:59 which contains links to the other blogs May 15 19:49:02 thiago, what is the blog post called? May 15 19:49:05 ahh May 15 19:49:12 lcuk, see my link May 15 19:49:22 * lcuk spotted, thanks Venemo May 15 19:49:22 I suppose that is what thiago is referring to May 15 19:50:07 yeah I was too, but there is no reference to author on the meego.com homepage for that section of posts, the blogs section is further up and does not include one ;) May 15 19:50:11 Venemo: yup May 15 19:50:29 sorry, planet meego at the bottom of the homepage May 15 19:52:45 developers: picky gits. May 15 19:52:51 I hope that these session will be watchable online May 15 19:53:01 I hope that these sessions will be watchable online May 15 19:53:39 I have a huge email backlog that I need to get through, bbl May 15 19:53:58 the ones on the main room (including Lars's talk) will be May 15 19:53:58 ctrl + a and del May 15 19:54:05 the other ones will be filmed May 15 19:54:08 hey, is there a way to enable the soft keybaord on meego netbook? May 15 19:54:51 or enable the tabs bar in tablet ediiton May 15 19:55:56 kamui, there is no tabs bar in the tablet ux (as it is driven by a different concept) May 15 19:57:41 venemo: understood, however, I would like tabs, so I was really asking if there's a way to get netbook edition working with the tablet soft keyboard (best soft keyboard I've seen in linux todate) or get that bar in tablet edition May 15 19:58:13 kamui, I understand, but I don't know how to do either of those, sorry :) May 15 19:59:04 its all golden, Ill struggle with tablet edition until I figure otu how to get it to work for me May 15 20:05:31 Hi, just getting some thoughts... Using the IVI image (although this is probably true with other images) flash drives inserted after the system is up aren't mounted. And drives in external enclosure aren't ever mounted. Isn't udiskie suppose to handle all that? May 15 20:10:22 only if told to May 15 20:13:06 * w00t_ waves from helsinki May 15 20:14:13 WWWWWWWOOOOOOOOHOO May 15 20:14:16 *ahem* May 15 20:14:47 i must say, i didn't expect that degree of excitement May 15 20:14:48 :P May 15 20:15:02 w00t_: ;-) May 15 20:15:55 Hah May 15 20:16:25 aw my bloodpressure May 15 20:16:33 *ahem* May 15 20:17:08 it's changed a lot since I was here last May 15 20:17:16 no 0.5m of snow everywhere :-P May 15 20:18:12 who gives a shit about snow, Finland is winning in ice hockey world championship final against Sweden :-D May 15 20:18:24 * > sweden May 15 20:18:36 a rare occasion to see Finns go mad might be tonight, if things go right May 15 20:18:53 Heh May 15 20:18:55 hmm, this might explain some of the shouting I heard walking back to the hotel May 15 20:18:56 :P May 15 20:19:04 Can't believe it's less than a week until SF May 15 20:19:12 alterego: me neither May 15 20:19:18 really not looking forward to next weekend May 15 20:19:26 i get to spend a lot of it on planes May 15 20:19:56 * w00t_ will have to buy a book or three May 15 20:20:37 I was thinking the same thing, I'm dreading the 10 journey May 15 20:20:47 10 hour .. closer to 11 actually May 15 20:20:47 10? where are you going from May 15 20:20:52 UK May 15 20:21:02 I have 15 hours May 15 20:21:14 (from manchester) May 15 20:21:46 Eek, you flying from manchester to london? May 15 20:21:55 amsterdam May 15 20:22:02 no direct flights May 15 20:22:18 atleast I have pit stops between flights in Cambs May 15 20:22:21 so it's either take a few hours of train(/hell) to london, or fly somewhere else May 15 20:23:30 Isn't their a train straight to heathrow? May 15 20:23:43 gatwick is less stress than heathrow May 15 20:23:50 by a long shot May 15 20:24:38 LHR is the only airport I've not been to in london/south area May 15 20:24:50 I usually fly from gatwick though, in the past. May 15 20:24:57 count your blessings :-) May 15 20:25:03 w00t_: flies from AMS ? May 15 20:25:08 I've been through there 3-4 times, and really not liked it at all May 15 20:25:21 mikeleib: indirectly, MAN -> AMS -> SFO May 15 20:25:22 Well, that makes me feel better :S May 15 20:25:29 woof May 15 20:25:35 alterego: the biggest problem is that it's *huge* May 15 20:25:37 What day you flying out? May 15 20:25:48 saturday May 15 20:25:53 I arrive 11:30 or so May 15 20:25:56 Ah, same here. May 15 20:26:02 * mikeleib checks shuttle flight May 15 20:26:03 in the evening? May 15 20:26:45 alterego: AM May 15 20:26:51 I leave manchester at 6am May 15 20:26:53 * mikeleib hopes to arrive in CA at 8am on Mon May 15 20:27:40 Cool, I arrive about 15:30 May 15 20:28:00 think a few people are meeting for drinks in the hyatt bar in the evening. May 15 20:28:16 I have no idea what I'll be doing May 15 20:28:25 I'm meeting special around the same time I arrive May 15 20:28:32 we then have some various touring around to do May 15 20:28:41 I guess we'll probably scout out the hyatt at some point May 15 20:29:01 I might spend a few hours wondering, but I've signed up for the app up thing on sunday May 15 20:29:14 w00t: when are you flying? -- i'm going through AMS too May 15 20:29:15 wandering .. May 15 20:29:18 * CosmoHill went on a train for the first time in 10 years today May 15 20:29:21 *this week May 15 20:29:33 CosmoHill: that's quite an achievement :P May 15 20:29:43 I get trains at leasdt 3 times a week May 15 20:29:54 I sat opposite my mate with a stupid grin on my face May 15 20:30:34 Heh May 15 20:30:38 timeless_w7ip: departing AMS 9:50am saturday May 15 20:30:50 as for planes, I've never been on one May 15 20:31:18 Heh, I've been on plenty of flights, never outside of Europe though May 15 20:31:31 Unless you count iceland as outside May 15 20:32:01 oh May 15 20:32:06 * timeless_w7ip is flying on friday May 15 20:32:27 * w00t_ is leaving helsinki on friday, then leaving manchester on saturday May 15 20:32:48 yuck :) May 15 22:04:11 cyas May 15 22:08:18 Getting weird ofono behaviour, I'm sure remote calls which are hungup before being answered are counted as missed, and I'm sure that calls which are unanswered but are ringing don't count towards call time. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon May 16 02:59:57 2011