**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 30 02:59:59 2011 May 30 03:33:04 hi leinir! May 30 04:27:11 berndhs, understatement. May 30 04:27:19 hi May 30 04:28:02 hi Jay_BEE May 30 04:31:01 * Jay_BEE opens bugs.meego.com May 30 04:31:32 * Stskeeps likes to see debugsource on Trunk:Testing May 30 04:39:56 hi I get this error while creating image with mic "/var/cache/meego-bootstrap/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/mic no such file" I made sure that mic-checkalldeps ran fine ,,,, can somebody help May 30 04:45:51 what distro are you using maggie May 30 04:46:05 opensuse 11.2 May 30 04:46:41 http://pastie.org/1991591 here is the complete log May 30 04:46:47 maggie: are you using --pkgmgr=yum ?? May 30 04:46:56 no May 30 04:47:58 maggie: try it. Last I checked, it's pretty much required in order for things to work. May 30 04:48:18 gabrbedd: I tried it it says mic-image-creator: error: no such option: --pkgmgr May 30 04:48:23 also I think your mic versions is a bit outdated May 30 04:48:36 just a sec... let me check the switch. May 30 04:48:42 MIC2 version: 0.22.13 May 30 04:49:45 --pkgmgr=PKGMGR Specify a package manager, the available package May 30 04:50:53 maggie: Yep, what beford said. You should probably grab a more recent mic2 and use that switch. I'm using 0.24.8 May 30 04:51:18 * Stskeeps starts the laborious task of fixing meego ARM packages in trunk:testing May 30 04:51:37 @gabrbedd let me try May 30 04:52:06 * gabrbedd goes to bed. May 30 04:52:08 Night all! May 30 04:57:03 beford : I tried with --pkgmgr =yum option after updating my mic I still get this error Installed total of 109 packages to bootstrap located in /var/cache/meego-bootstrap./bin/cp: cannot create directory `/var/cache/meego-bootstrap/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages': No such file or directory May 30 04:58:15 care to show the complete log again May 30 04:59:10 http://pastie.org/1991622 May 30 05:00:55 well it seems like its failing to fetch some repos and maybe that's why the bootstrap setup fails May 30 05:01:28 or is just the key? May 30 05:04:10 I oBS repositoies has no keys.. May 30 05:04:31 m using a local OBS which has no keys and on other machine the same server works just fine May 30 05:05:11 for boot straaping do I need to include packages like mic2 , isomd5sum etc in my kickstart? May 30 05:07:16 well it seems like your local repo is missing those packages May 30 05:07:52 you don't need those in the kickstart May 30 05:08:06 but with a different version of mic the same repo is able to create packages , well let me try adding those to my repo May 30 05:08:52 maybe you were not using bootstrap before try --bootstrap=0 May 30 05:11:27 it just says Error: Please specify a workable bootstrap env and exits May 30 05:13:59 moreover I checked python-zypp is not aviavlble on meego repository , I tried creating image using the ks file provided at the meego server without any chanegs ,, it gave the same result May 30 05:15:11 maggie, try --run-mode=0 May 30 05:16:57 Error: For non-Fedora and non-MeeGo systems, run mode must be 1 :( May 30 05:18:29 oh well add those packages to your repo May 30 05:18:37 those are needed to create the bootstrap environment May 30 05:18:54 you could also create it with the meego repo and just use that bootstrap environment I believe May 30 05:19:11 http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation#Use_Bootstrap May 30 05:19:41 i get the same with meego repo , got similar errors let me try agai May 30 05:19:57 coz python-zypp is not presentr in meego-1.1 repos May 30 05:45:22 Hey guys...I m beginner in meego .. I want to start with meego. Can some one advice which hardware should I buy ? other than nokia N900 ?? May 30 05:45:57 Karthee u can try on beagle board May 30 05:46:27 or any intel atom based board May 30 05:47:32 maggie: okay .. i ve never heard of beagle board. Just googling it .. May 30 05:48:03 Its an omap3530 based baord from TI , its inexpensive and gud for testing May 30 05:48:43 maggie: oh wow .. Will it require electronics knowledge ?? I m from computers background .. May 30 05:48:54 i mean software** backgroud May 30 05:48:57 not much May 30 05:49:30 the gud things is excellenrt help is avaible online for the same . just do the connection write image in sdcard and boot May 30 05:50:16 I ll order it right now .. Hope its avaliable in my country.. May 30 05:52:27 maggie: you have any links where I can read about how to do connections and all and install meego in beagle board ? May 30 05:53:15 karthee, I think Alison_Chaiken is listing the compatible boards somewhere on the Meego wiki, check there May 30 05:53:41 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_Beagleboard_from_scratch May 30 05:54:11 http://wiki.meego.com/In-vehicle#MeeGo_IVI_Development_Boards May 30 05:54:22 good morning guys :) May 30 05:54:24 Please add more! Or just make corrections. May 30 05:55:00 http://wiki.meego.com/Devices#Developer_Boards May 30 05:56:01 beford, the list at the latter URL is a bit short! May 30 05:56:20 yea just noticed hehe May 30 05:56:29 I suppose I could put the list I made at that URL instead of on the IVI page . . . hmm. May 30 05:56:53 Hard to know where wiki content belongs. May 30 06:40:15 Currently i am using MeeGo 1.2 Netbook image May 30 06:40:42 VKB is not launching when i click on any text field May 30 08:04:04 morning May 30 08:17:04 Morning May 30 08:17:20 morn May 30 08:17:35 one easy question is the Tegra 2 now full supported i 1.2? :S May 30 08:18:09 Jupaja: armv7hl supports tegra2's vfpv3-d16's yes May 30 08:18:31 you still need to get drivers for armv7hl from your hardware vendor and need to do a workaround in glibc (easy) though May 30 08:19:32 okey so will try it THX :D May 30 08:23:45 meego-sdk-assistant May 30 08:23:50 meego-sdk-assistant: error while loading shared libraries: libQtHelp.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory May 30 08:24:01 how to resolve this May 30 08:28:59 bkalinga: hm... it should be part of the build. can you check the dependencies of assistant and where it finds the other libs? May 30 08:31:05 ldd /usr/bin/meego-sdk-assistant May 30 08:31:09 libQtHelp.so.4 => not found May 30 08:31:14 libQtWebKit.so.4 => not found May 30 08:31:16 libQtSql.so.4 => not found May 30 08:33:02 bkalinga yum whatprovides May 30 08:33:41 bkalinga: sudo apt-get install libqt4-help libqtwebkit4 libqt4-sql ? May 30 08:33:55 depends on which platform you are right now :) May 30 08:34:17 karthee: i did not get you May 30 08:35:21 eg81: i am using Ubuntu 10.10 as host May 30 08:36:18 just wanted to know if i install it on the Host system then will meego-sdk-assistant pick it correctly? May 30 08:37:17 Stskeeps, remembering your "bullshit bug" slide from your talk and the threat of "sidestepping program management" - as I'm seeing enough such bug reports, how can I make sure that PM is *not* bypassed? Any recommendations what to do with such requests and how to identify who's deciding what? May 30 08:37:51 andre__: ask if the PM has agreed on this May 30 08:37:53 bkalinga: yes, it will do; May 30 08:38:06 ok let me try then May 30 08:38:23 Stskeeps, okay. I assume that the likely followup question will then be "How can I find out who is the PM" May 30 08:38:34 andre__: then you ask on meego-pm ;) May 30 08:38:39 hehe May 30 08:39:08 Stskeeps, does your criticism refer only to *adding* new modules/packages, or also to updating them? May 30 08:39:39 andre__: the problem is usually only visible in release freeze times May 30 08:40:48 Stskeeps, so if versions just get bumped in 1.3 there's no issue and anybody can do whatever s/he wants? May 30 08:41:08 andre__: in invasive changes phase it's free for all to keep packages updated, generally May 30 08:41:14 I see May 30 08:41:16 thanks! May 30 08:41:20 andre__: better that than becoming maemo May 30 08:41:26 hehe May 30 08:41:30 true May 30 08:42:36 sudo apt-get install libqtwebkit4 May 30 08:42:36 E: Couldn't find package libqtwebkit4 May 30 08:43:14 apt-cache search webkit May 30 08:44:35 i think i need to install this libqt4-webkit May 30 08:46:02 pebcak: http://pastebin.com/c58gY6qW May 30 08:46:20 bkalinga help yourself May 30 08:47:31 actually got confused with meego-sdk-libqt4-webkit - Qt 4 WebKit module May 30 08:47:37 and libqt4-webkit - Qt 4 WebKit module May 30 08:50:42 error in : /usr/bin/meego-sdk-assistant http://pastebin.com/LY9D34S0 May 30 08:51:11 after resolving all dependency May 30 08:55:11 hi meego users. Do you know how I can get my AL-C900 printer work with meego netbook ? May 30 08:56:29 many epson printers are listed, but none seem to match AL-C900 May 30 09:02:39 demental: http://avasys.jp/eng/linux_driver/ ? May 30 09:03:12 Which distribution should I get ? May 30 09:03:20 rpm / fedora 10 ? May 30 09:04:55 too old May 30 09:05:32 hi I am using pinetrail images . I get the screensaver ( locked ) state. it does not recognise my mouse events.. does anyone know why ? May 30 09:21:52 rcherian: if u press and hold on that Lock ...does it change to blue color? May 30 09:25:25 bkalinga, i dont see any mouse pointer and it does not work if i tap using my finger to screen May 30 09:26:38 sorry i can't help..mine was the observation in QEMU May 30 09:39:13 i guess we're finding out why the meego conf didn't have any announcements - they're all happening at computex ;) May 30 09:39:39 Hey folks. Anyone know how I can wipe out cached rpms on the server before triggering a rebuild? May 30 09:40:30 Ford_Prefect: using osc? you want --clean May 30 09:40:32 probably May 30 09:41:54 w00t_: osc rebuild doesn't have a --clean, and aiui osc build (which does have a --clean) is for local builds only? May 30 10:19:03 Ford_Prefect: the server always create a clean environment for each build, so you will always have fresh setup directly from OBS imported or built repos. May 30 10:24:14 smoku: I had alsa-lib 1.0.24.1 in my repo, removed it, but pulseaudio in my repo is still using 1.0.24.1 even though 1.0.23 is the latest otherwise May 30 10:26:47 Ford_Prefect: i guess 1.0.24.1 is in the main repo you build for May 30 10:27:19 Ford_Prefect: if your package needs specific alsa-libs version it's best to require <= May 30 10:28:05 Nah, it doesn't require that specific alsa-lib version, but afaict, the main repo doesn't actually have 1.0.24.1 May 30 10:38:19 I think we're going to need a new irc channel for community hardware discussions. May 30 10:38:44 twitter isn't amazingly effective, unless we use a hashtag .. May 30 10:42:05 Community hardware? May 30 10:42:21 You mean like trying to find hardware meego can run on? May 30 10:42:44 alterego: yeah, sounds like a good plan :) May 30 10:42:46 No, May 30 10:43:01 alterego: hacking existing hw? May 30 10:43:12 SpeedEvil: no, community driven hardware building May 30 10:43:28 Do you have a large slice of a million dollars? May 30 10:43:36 * Jaffa looks to the Pandora at how successful that was... May 30 10:44:30 SpeedEvil: well, I don't know ;) May 30 10:44:34 You need a large slice of a million dollars. If you only make a few, then even neglecting development costs, you will struggle to meet the cost of a purchased commercial device, while being larger and heavier. May 30 10:44:43 I mean: I don't, no. May 30 10:45:20 You sound like DocScrutinizer :P May 30 10:45:38 And you're quite likely to screw up the first dozen boards. This means you need to pay for the board - at least a few hundred dollars in ones - the components for that board - the assembly of that board. May 30 10:46:33 SpeedEvil: Well, let me put it this way - the first project is fronted by people who are very well versed in creating consumer-targeted devices ;) May 30 10:46:41 This can easily hit a thousand dollars, and then you find that you've miswired something, and it fries itself on boot. You think you've found out what it was, only to have the next one (and thousand dollars) not boot as you've connected the ROM backwards. May 30 10:46:52 Strangly enough, you aren't the only one that knows about fabrication processes :P May 30 10:46:58 Fair enough. May 30 10:47:35 Just that assuming that you can get it working first time, when actual professionals doing this don't, is fairly questionable. May 30 10:48:11 And I want community open source hardware to work - it's just realy, really hard for mobile phone class devices. May 30 10:48:21 alterego: /join ##meegoNewHW May 30 10:48:34 /join ##meegoNewHW May 30 10:51:34 hmm... wouldn't #meego-NewHW make more sense, considering the way the other channels are named? May 30 10:52:41 * MohammadAG agrees May 30 10:54:01 or -openhw May 30 10:59:37 I prefer #meego-hard May 30 10:59:43 * alterego chuckles May 30 11:05:50 *giggles* Actually yes, i kinda like that too - though perhaps the name isn't clear enough, it has a sort of ring to it ;) May 30 11:09:09 MInputContext: unable to create D-Bus connection: Failed to connect to socket /tmp/meego-im-uiserver/imserver_dbus: Connection refused May 30 11:09:51 while trying to debug Qt application with a line edit from Qt Creator May 30 11:12:59 * leinir paints that bike-shed pink and drizzles it with spangly things! "Wooh, pretty!" ;) May 30 11:14:09 * lcuk sighs and wonders how to remove someone from channels May 30 11:15:27 lcuk: uhm... /kick or /ban or /kickban? May 30 11:15:43 leinir, that only works if I am /op on channel May 30 11:15:55 historically I have not been op on my own channel for a long time May 30 11:16:15 right May 30 12:33:10 Who should I contact about keeping ARM v7 softfloat builds around in OBS? May 30 12:34:29 jeremiah_: I think that is a question for #meego-arm May 30 12:34:53 X-Fade: Okay, I'll ask there. :-) May 30 13:20:46 http://www.netbooknews.com/26824/asus-eee-pc-x101-with-meego-hands-on-video/ May 30 13:28:23 Netbook build, eh? May 30 13:33:10 some news says that prices start at $199. May 30 13:34:39 * Jaffa bets most'll get Ubuntu PDQ. May 30 13:37:27 Jaffa, if this is sold in the consumer channel, I bet you are wrong. in my experiences with computer people, they do not reinstall the basic OS that comes with the device May 30 13:37:44 non-computer people * May 30 13:38:22 a completely different question is whether the netbook OS can give a nice experience in the store that they actually purchase the machines May 30 13:40:00 lcuk: Whenever I would show the Netbook UX to friends (when getting started with MeeGo)... they were typically impressed with the raw speed of doing simple things. May 30 13:40:06 ...like loading facebook pages. May 30 13:40:17 no wonder chrome is popular ;) May 30 13:40:25 yeah gabrbedd there are some nice elements to it May 30 13:40:36 and the kinds of usecases developers put them under is different May 30 13:40:40 to how they use it May 30 13:42:01 Actually, I liked the Netbook UX, too. I just wish it was more touch-friendly. May 30 13:42:05 lcuk: Unfortunately, most consumers seem to consider Linux netbooks a dead end, whatever the OS :-( May 30 13:42:24 I wish I could still use it... but we've moved to Tablet UX and I have to eat my own dogfood. May 30 13:42:30 my gripes with it are relatively minor and brainjarring UX stutters May 30 13:43:01 alt-tab animation and ordering, windows not quite being fullscreen, panels grid being useless for finding info May 30 13:43:10 Menu/title bar UX is a) inconsistent with the home screen and b) requires UI changes in even the most trivial Linux software :-( May 30 13:43:12 gabrbedd, of course May 30 13:43:38 That reminds me, need to install the latest 2011-05-27 tablet image on my Exo May 30 13:43:41 Jaffa, people do not buy computers based on operating systems, they buy them based on whether they can do the same things as their friends May 30 13:43:52 Jaffa: You mean apps that have File | Edit | Tools | Help ?? May 30 13:43:56 ie, lot of apple fan friends - they buy apple May 30 13:44:19 keeping up with the joneses" May 30 13:44:37 give them a use case and experience that is only on linux May 30 13:44:46 and after a while they will mostly have linux May 30 13:45:15 lcuk: Seen the return reports, consumer reviews & press for the Linux netbooks to date? May 30 13:46:23 that is because the linux machines do not offer anything more to do - and if anything less because they cannot do same as the other machines around them May 30 13:47:12 lcuk Jaffa - In addition, the "Ubuntu Netbook Remix" was... well... not very good. May 30 13:47:59 gabrbedd: 10.04 onwards seem quite good to me May 30 13:48:27 lcuk: Agreed. But I don't think the state of the Netbook UX when it was "stabilised" will change that. May 30 13:48:48 Jaffa: Yes, Unity is a big improvement. But I'm pretty sure that most of the "high return rates" are from the "remix" time-frame. May 30 13:49:08 gabrbedd: Most of them were with the shitty own UIs, like on the Eee IIRC May 30 13:49:17 well are there any features *any* of the ux offers that is outstanding? May 30 13:49:51 gabrbedd: I don't like Unity, I prefer Gnome 2 May 30 13:49:59 linux desktop/netbook can try to be like windows, it can be fancy and look the part and stuff May 30 13:50:03 and Gnome 3 is awesome comparing to Unity May 30 13:50:15 but when your mates come round, what do you show them? that it looks like windows? May 30 13:50:30 what are the defining features of the computer you are running? May 30 13:50:43 lcuk: Indeed. The Netbook UX's homescreen was very nice, but once you get outside it... May 30 13:50:49 pfft May 30 13:51:00 fancy window managers are for poofs May 30 13:51:06 xmonad ftw May 30 13:51:10 better irssi usability then in windows:) May 30 13:51:14 I had to explain to a group of doctors why they couldn't have my calendar on their machines last week May 30 13:51:58 if I could have sold them machines with it on, and fully integrated they would have bought them there and then. May 30 13:52:30 I know what defining features I would want on MeeGo based machines May 30 13:53:36 lcuk: I don't think they'd buy 200gbp machines to run a calendar on. The cost/benefit analysis would soon fall apart. May 30 13:53:59 Jaffa, ould not buy it for that alone May 30 13:54:05 the software is only 1 tiny part May 30 13:54:18 heh, looks like i have 26 terminal windows open currently May 30 13:54:25 it is connecting the household and all the *data* filled in by family that makes it important May 30 13:54:37 could not keep them in order with anything else than a tiling window manager May 30 13:55:04 Jaffa, a calendar is not just an app you use once and forget May 30 13:55:10 it is something daily and updating May 30 13:55:42 people do that? keep track of which family members do what, on which days ? May 30 13:55:49 berndhs, sure May 30 13:56:05 in my family we left them alone :) May 30 13:56:16 http://liqbase.net/20110526_002.jpg May 30 13:56:22 berndhs, do you have kids? May 30 13:56:28 a wife? May 30 13:56:35 I was a kid once, surprisingly :) May 30 13:56:37 simple day to day tasks May 30 13:57:13 parents didnt order me around on a schedule May 30 13:57:33 berndhs, look how it is used in our case May 30 13:57:46 Jaffa: is attitude written in python? May 30 13:57:48 simple reminders of school times and exams and general things you put on a wall calendar May 30 13:57:50 yes i'm just surprised that families function that way May 30 13:58:04 Jaffa: (or more precisely, is the QML "port" still having a Python backend or is it using C++ as the backend?)( May 30 13:58:08 berndhs, I spent 10 years talking to people who could not use computers May 30 13:58:15 who found them daunting May 30 13:58:22 right, but we didnt do that on paper either May 30 13:58:30 this kind of app removes any of the computerisms from it May 30 13:58:34 not in a family-global sense May 30 13:58:43 thp: It's entirely QML apart from the C++ launcher May 30 13:58:55 how did your mum know when you were in/out of school? May 30 13:59:05 sure, more or less May 30 13:59:17 but parents didnt drive me to school, I just went myself May 30 13:59:26 who said about driving to school? May 30 13:59:28 and after, I went home May 30 13:59:45 parents didnt stress about when I went and came back May 30 13:59:54 ? i never said they did May 30 14:00:05 it looks like it though May 30 14:00:05 but on the calendar are the dates of exams and school holidays etc? May 30 14:00:15 the times when things are different to norm May 30 14:00:23 or going to places etc May 30 14:00:30 nm anyway i got things to do re n900-de May 30 14:00:43 thp: http://gitorious.org/attitude/attitude (just pushed latest update) May 30 14:00:47 Jaffa: well for your minimization problem - you could just write a simple qobject subclass with one property and set that according to window state changes of your main widget (either QMainWindow or QDeclarativeView) May 30 14:01:45 erm s/minimization/"in foreground"/ May 30 14:04:25 thp: Does the main widget get the appropriate state changes on Maemo (and, preferably, Symbian)? I know Gtk+ doesn't single background windows as being minimised, so had to go off "focus" in the past May 30 14:04:57 Jaffa: yep, it does, although maemo 5 is a bit different compared to all the others May 30 14:05:03 let me look up the code May 30 14:06:43 Jaffa: the main window gets an event (::event(QEvent *event)) on show/hide May 30 14:07:24 the ->type() of the event is QEvent::Leave and QEvent::WindowDecativate on leave and QEvent::Enter and QEvent::WindowActivate on re-activation May 30 14:07:45 you need both to support symbian and maemo, although I'm not sure which is for which May 30 14:08:03 Cool. Is there some sample code on the internetz? May 30 14:08:53 let me copypasta it May 30 14:10:32 Jaffa: http://pastebin.com/tTSWt3aq May 30 14:11:30 Jaffa: adding this to the QmlApplicationViewer class that's created by Qt Creator and acting accordingly should do the trick May 30 14:12:05 Jaffa: for getting this into QML, a simple QObject subclass with a single NOTIFYable property should do the trick. May 30 14:12:25 + you can expose an instance of that object using e.g. setContextProperty() May 30 14:22:46 Jaffa: i'll send a patch May 30 14:25:20 thp: Wow, cool. Much appreciated :-) May 30 14:28:47 I have a couple btrfs issues (one crash, one incompatibility). Should I report those on BMC or upstream? May 30 14:29:06 gabrbedd: BMC May 30 14:29:27 then the maintainer should push the bug upstream - though you could help May 30 14:29:54 lbt: thanks, and welcome back! May 30 14:30:26 np May 30 14:34:26 can anyone tell me why mad-admin on SDK 1.2 doesnt seem to find targets for 1.2 (only 1.1.2 or older)? May 30 14:37:16 delac: check if this target exists in /usr/lib/madde/linux-i686/cache/madde.conf.d/ May 30 14:41:23 eg81: well, for me it is /usr/lib/madde/linux-x86_64/cache/madde.conf.d/ and the folder contains .conf files for all of the older targets, but nothing for 1.2 or newer May 30 14:49:50 delac: it seems that MeeGoSDKMaintenanceTool should be used to add additional target (it will install additional madde configuration file) May 30 14:50:53 eg81: yes, I was coming to the same conclusion. But why? Why don't they just update the repository to include 1.2 too? May 30 14:54:09 delac: as I know madde configurations came from madde-configurations package (and git repo), but I found that's not maintained anymore May 30 14:55:32 eg81: hmm? are they going to get rid of madde? May 30 15:04:06 delac: I don't know :| May 30 15:16:50 thp: Thanks - working wonderfully. May 30 15:17:09 thp: Will just have to remember to reapply the patch if qmlapplicationviewer.* gets overwritten in a future SDK update May 30 15:18:03 What package is providing the screenshot applet in N900-DE ? May 30 15:18:33 gosh. May 30 15:18:36 "Further revision were discussed among related stakeholders through internal mails or meetings. I don't think *ALL* decisions needs to be made in public ways." May 30 15:18:38 Am I the only one screaming when reading this? May 30 15:19:04 * SpeedEvil sighs. May 30 15:19:36 Jaffa: why they put qmlapplicationviewer into every project is beyond me, anyway. either it should go into qt itself or a supporting library. May 30 15:19:46 f*ck yeah, openness my behind May 30 15:20:00 one who wants to customize it can still subclass May 30 15:20:17 I'd love to lart some people now. May 30 15:20:31 andre__: URL? May 30 15:20:57 Stskeeps, latest two posts on meego-qa@ May 30 15:21:06 ah, lovely May 30 15:21:08 feel very free to chime in. May 30 15:21:40 I won't send further mail today, my wording would probably be rather unproductive May 30 15:24:38 Ironic that it's intended to "involve all meego community users" (AFAICT) May 30 15:25:49 * Jaffa would respond but isn't subscribed to -qa. Something along the lines of "Internal meetings at Intel? bugs.meego.com is not Intel's to do with as it pleases; 'internal' meetings for BMC would be on #meego-meeting on IRC or on this mailing list" May 30 15:26:34 Jaffa, subscribe and unsubscribe again. ;-) May 30 15:26:52 really, I sometimes feel like I can use any backing. It's not the first time. :-/ May 30 15:27:04 can anyone tell me if it might be bad thing to have more than one swap partition on single disk? (I'm trying to install Meego and it decided to add another swap even though the disk already has one) May 30 15:28:45 andre__, I see it as counter productive to have to pre check every single decision, however I could also see a "we had a meeting and set out these key points and decisions, please speak up now to discuss further or alter their scope" etc May 30 15:29:20 since we know that when you get together talking you can expand on things in much the same way we can here on irc May 30 15:29:39 actively saying "hold on, we are in the office, we cannot talk about this without typing every word" May 30 15:29:46 andre__: Anyway of getting the appropriate in-response-to/references headers when you haven't got the original? May 30 15:30:08 Jaffa, shall I forward an email to you? May 30 15:30:27 lcuk, I agree. Not every single decision. But the constant addition of new fields to Bugzilla makes it extremely unproductive to me. May 30 15:30:38 I understand entirely May 30 15:31:09 there should be a middle ground area where the office and the community can forward and advance topics properly May 30 15:31:16 lcuk, but having *no* involvement of "office-outsiders" does not help either. I'm not against "pre-meetings". But such decisions that affect every bugzilla user are a bit heavier to me May 30 15:31:58 andre__, that is my point, now that such a meeting has happened, had it been put up onto the ML with "we think this would be a good idea and if nobody speaks will give it a go" May 30 15:32:03 andre__: Yeah, if you could bounce it, that'd be appreciated May 30 15:32:08 so now, you are speaking up May 30 15:32:10 etc May 30 15:32:18 lcuk: Except it's been implemented *before* that check, AFAICT? May 30 15:32:25 Jaffa, sent May 30 15:32:29 i think so Jaffa May 30 15:32:36 or on its way to being May 30 15:32:42 delac: having more than one swap partition should be no big deal. May 30 15:32:45 lcuk, yeah, "silence means compliance" is also what I do. but at least I announce it. ;-) May 30 15:32:53 Also - were these discussors ones that _actually_use_bugzilla_a_lot_ May 30 15:32:55 lcuk: ...and been published as a fait accompli; without asking for the feedback May 30 15:33:02 gabrbedd: deleted it already :) May 30 15:33:11 delac: That'll work, too. :-) May 30 15:33:20 Otherwise - their feelings will be almost meaningless, and they will tend to agree with reasonable suggestions from the suggestor. May 30 15:33:28 Jaffa, IDK, that is the feeling after a quick read over the ML thread and andre__ who usually has sensible head about such things ;) May 30 15:33:36 lcuk: Indeed May 30 15:33:40 but tell me, what is this installation phase: "Boot loader operating system list" May 30 15:33:58 it has both Meego and "Other" listed May 30 15:34:14 lcuk, I hope my postings there are not too heated. If they are please tell me... :-/ May 30 15:34:18 I think the other is my other Distro May 30 15:34:42 Ugh. I'll to them *again* May 30 15:34:43 there is a check box on each and I can select either one May 30 15:34:52 but not both May 30 15:34:54 oops I'll *talk* to them *again* May 30 15:34:56 andre__, see the printout on my wall: http://liqbase.net/20110526_002.jpg May 30 15:35:12 what happends if I select either one? May 30 15:35:14 I look there whenever I am sending emails :) May 30 15:35:31 lcuk, haha. yeah, sometimes I do wait for one day to answer some emails :) May 30 15:35:52 * lcuk learning to write more carefully :) May 30 15:36:22 delac: IIRC, it doesn't do anything no matter what you select. It'll just plain boot MeeGo. May 30 15:36:50 gabrbedd: ... May 30 15:37:01 delac: But if "Other" is listed, it will try to boot the "other" OS that's on disk. May 30 15:37:10 Okay, played with wetab os, now gonna try ubuntu 11.04 on the exo May 30 15:37:46 gabrbedd: but doesnt succeed? May 30 15:37:57 DawnFoster: if you have any comments on escalating properly... but Carsten already told me to file a bug against Community processes if all goes wrong. I just wonder when I will make the decision that "all went wrong and won't change soon" ;-) May 30 15:38:09 delac: What doesn't succeed? May 30 15:38:27 gabrbedd: booting of the other distro May 30 15:38:40 gabrbedd: I thought you said it makes no difference May 30 15:38:42 andre__: I just emailed the guy who works for imad who manages the whole QA / release teams at Intel May 30 15:38:53 DawnFoster: thank you May 30 15:38:55 andre__: he gets open source May 30 15:39:04 DawnFoster, thanks May 30 15:39:10 delac: That screen in the installer is supposed to let you set the DEFAULT os to boot. May 30 15:39:13 * andre__ off for the rest of the evening May 30 15:39:18 I've been trying to get them some better training for a while May 30 15:39:28 and we need to stop these things from happening May 30 15:39:29 delac: In reality, it does nothing -- unless someone has fixed that bug. May 30 15:39:42 i wonder if we should have some project wide training material .. like "how to be a meego developer" May 30 15:39:42 gabrbedd: ok May 30 15:39:50 with tools info, behaviour, ways to operate, etc May 30 15:39:56 delac: But when you boot the device, you should have an opportunity to select which os to boot. May 30 15:39:59 so any company can learn May 30 15:40:14 delac: but you have to act fast... because the timeout it quick. May 30 15:41:28 Stskeeps: yeah, that would be a good start May 30 15:41:35 * Stskeeps mails himself with that todo May 30 15:41:59 we also have internal email training with things like: you have to use an intel email address or disclaimer to make affiliation with Intel clear May 30 15:42:08 :nod: May 30 15:42:10 along with more general open source best practices May 30 15:42:57 Though, there was a floor found in that strategy DawnFoster May 30 15:43:15 hm? May 30 15:43:17 What happens if you leave Intel? As a fair few Nokians are that still want to maintain their work in MeeGo? May 30 15:43:42 alterego: that one is simple actually, i've seen a few people do that May 30 15:43:45 you change your email address May 30 15:43:47 they changed their meego.com email May 30 15:44:00 and bugzilla follows May 30 15:44:11 I suppose the past few months have been a good test for that :D May 30 15:44:16 of course this requires you haven't been marched out the door but .. ;) May 30 15:45:13 My living room is freezing .. May 30 15:45:24 And it's pissing it down with rain outside. May 30 15:45:32 (welcome back to Britain Tom) May 30 15:45:35 indeed May 30 15:45:41 it's actually warmer here than in SF May 30 15:45:54 29 C tomorrow here May 30 15:48:07 * w00t_ got massively sunburned in SF May 30 15:48:21 how? you were inside hacking all the time May 30 15:48:22 :P May 30 15:48:29 not after the conference ended I wasn't May 30 15:48:30 Heh, you weren't the only one, seemed like I was the only one that went outside that remembed sun cream :P May 30 15:48:35 w00t_: ah May 30 15:48:42 alterego: i remembered after first day May 30 15:48:43 :P May 30 15:49:15 I even have photographic proof I got outside: http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/252488_2098400699414_1227292849_32507200_5802839_n.jpg May 30 15:50:03 frying like a lobster, it looks like May 30 15:50:12 hehe May 30 15:50:36 Heh May 30 15:50:58 I bought a hdmi c -> hdmi a, adapter yesterday May 30 15:51:06 Had the Exo plugged into my HDTV :) May 30 15:51:18 If only the Exo had an ethernet port May 30 15:51:21 nice May 30 15:51:24 how did you get hdmi working? May 30 15:51:41 wetab os May 30 15:51:43 ah May 30 15:51:46 But May 30 15:51:53 i found the sources for the chronotel stuff people mentioned May 30 15:51:56 You just need the firmware from wetab to get it working in meego tablet May 30 15:51:59 yeah May 30 15:52:12 http://www.wetab-community.com/index.php?/topic/12074-hdmi-ausgang/ May 30 15:52:14 alterego: wiki.meego.com/Devices/ExoPC May 30 15:52:22 then scroll down to the hardware section May 30 15:52:34 * Stskeeps ponders where to put the exopc in his apartment May 30 15:52:53 I'm going to nail mine to the shower cubicle wall May 30 15:53:04 w00t_, that is a photoshop! May 30 15:53:09 no way were you really outside :P May 30 15:53:28 :-) May 30 15:53:28 thp: The 20110527 image for the ExoPC hangs on "hci0 timeout" during install for me :-( May 30 15:53:57 Jaffa: hmm works great for me. i'm always booting it from usb, though May 30 15:54:08 * Jaffa will try on another stick May 30 15:54:22 Jaffa: meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.0.90.1.20110525.84.img dd'd to the usb directly (/dev/sdX) May 30 15:54:51 Jaffa: hangs on hci0 timeout doesn't makes sense. It's only an error message for bluetooth. May 30 15:55:03 Jaffa: it doesn't affect the rest of the kernel May 30 15:55:12 padovan: It loops, doesn't go any further and repeatedly logs that line. Didn't claim it made sense ;-) May 30 15:55:22 thp: I'm trying meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.80.4.0.20110527.2.img (dd'd directly to the stick) May 30 15:55:32 thp: ...from http://download.meego.com/snapshots/latest/images/meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail/ May 30 15:55:36 Jaffa: sounds like it hangs _after_ the hci timeout May 30 15:55:40 So it could kind of be anything May 30 15:55:50 alterego: Well, true. s/on/after/ :-p May 30 15:56:17 ubuntu runs quite smoothly on the exo May 30 15:59:23 * alterego looks online for compact usb or bluetooth keyboards. May 30 15:59:26 * Stskeeps really wouldn't mind some kind of digital glue for his devices to talk together May 30 15:59:27 Think I'd prefer USB May 30 15:59:48 Stskeeps: I've been toying with that kind of stuff (in my mind) May 30 15:59:57 http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ultrathin-bluetooth-slide-out-keyboard-hard-case-for-apple-iphone-4-black-65669 May 30 15:59:59 And w00t_'s sync stuff shows how cool it could be ;) May 30 15:59:59 is neat! May 30 16:00:40 Stskeeps, bug 440 May 30 16:00:42 alterego: I've got a Lenovo N5901 (wireless with non-BT USB dongle); works really nicely on my media PC for stuff beyond the StreamZap May 30 16:00:43 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=440 enh, Low, ---, sameo, VERI WONTFIX, Unable to support ad-hoc mode for WiFi May 30 16:00:52 digital glue May 30 16:01:08 lcuk: little higher level May 30 16:01:08 :P May 30 16:03:11 Stskeeps, prod and poke the folks for wifi direct then instead May 30 16:03:48 bug 4729 May 30 16:03:51 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4729 enh, Undecided, ---, prahlad.gokul, INDE, [FEA] WiFi Direct (WLAN P2P) Support May 30 16:04:02 more digital glue (encrypted this time) May 30 16:04:20 "Digital Glue" that's what my gf calls it .. May 30 16:04:32 But she does think I'm a bit like a robot May 30 16:05:16 * SpeedEvil thinks of alterego now as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygN8H3kI1qE May 30 16:05:23 ubuntu 11.04 installed May 30 16:05:29 Lets see how crap this unity stuff is then May 30 16:07:58 It's a pity 'wifi direct' in general kills battery life. May 30 16:20:50 bugs.meego.com server is down May 30 16:21:02 but handily asks you to file a bug on bugs.meego.com if it persists May 30 16:21:25 Sorry, it looks like our servers are having trouble! May 30 16:21:25 Please try your request again or use the links below to report the issue. May 30 16:21:26 Submit a bug! May 30 16:21:26 If this error happens repeatedly, please submit a bug. May 30 16:21:37 http://bugs.meego.com/enter_bug.cgi?classification=MeeGo%20Community%20Infrastructure May 30 16:22:33 lcuk: that's how I avoid bugs :) May 30 16:22:49 :D May 30 16:24:51 andre__, what is the easieest way to see todays bug? May 30 16:24:52 bugs May 30 16:25:05 * lcuk has a feeling I have asked before May 30 16:26:34 alterego, CosmoHill - my mentioning of needing vkb for one purpose, I have tracy filling in and tagging stuff, the vkb is needed because the real keyboard is now not typing 1qa keys :S May 30 16:28:10 lcuk: yeah, vkb for "special" symbols is a must May 30 16:29:06 alterego, this is to write tag names with an a in them mostly May 30 16:29:22 it seems to be software related because the keys work again after reboot May 30 16:30:17 Oh, I thought we were talking about another conversation :P May 30 16:30:23 lcuk: Do you have the N900 DE installed? Can you do me a favor? May 30 16:30:42 I installed meego today after much deliberation and straight away connman refused to connect to Ad Hoc network setup on a different latop May 30 16:31:07 rakshasa_: adhoc networking doesn't work under meego currently May 30 16:31:11 and it refuses to recognise my usb cdma modem May 30 16:31:24 That I do not know about :) May 30 16:31:24 so is there any way to connect May 30 16:32:07 and it doesn't play nice with usb modem either .. May 30 16:32:16 so have i got any option? May 30 16:32:28 What are you running this on? May 30 16:32:46 intel n550 netbook(samsung n148) May 30 16:32:56 ethernet? :) May 30 16:33:08 cross over ?? May 30 16:33:11 Yes May 30 16:33:22 Though most modern nics can auto switch rather than using a cross over May 30 16:33:33 really May 30 16:33:43 ohh that was what keeping me off May 30 16:33:46 thanks May 30 16:33:48 off i go May 30 16:34:27 hey but wait.. May 30 16:34:41 can't I have some wireless option? May 30 16:35:04 Well, if you know how you can setup the wifi connection without connman manually from the console. May 30 16:35:11 But I can't really direct you in that regard. May 30 16:35:28 hmmm.. May 30 16:35:34 ok I can try May 30 16:37:53 gabrbedd, you could, but it is not doing much today May 30 16:38:58 lcuk: Is there a screenshot util? I think it's under Settings -> Debug or Settings -> Devel or something. May 30 16:39:14 gabrbedd, ECANNOTCLICK May 30 16:39:28 lcuk: :-) May 30 16:39:41 and the screenshot was in netbook afaik, I do not think it is on the n900-de May 30 16:41:11 lcuk: Someone was asking me the question and showing me an N900 DE edition. May 30 16:41:22 lcuk: But I may have misunderstood the question. May 30 16:47:19 gabrbedd, hm May 30 17:17:51 hey, there used to be modem-modeswitch package in the meego repos, but I can't find it anymore. No biggie, but I can't get my Huawei 3G recognized without it... May 30 17:18:43 I'm not sure about this unity thing. May 30 17:18:48 All the apps are hidden away. May 30 17:19:00 So I don't klnow what is installed, I have to do everything from memory. May 30 17:19:03 Much like the meego tablet UX :) May 30 17:19:16 they are bringing unity to meego? May 30 17:19:21 alterego: They use the Meta key like the Tablet UX. Did you try that? May 30 17:19:32 alterego: Also, I couldn't find any kind of VKB. May 30 17:19:43 er, needing the meta key on a tablet? May 30 17:20:06 Yeah, unity doesn't give you a way to get to the onscreen keyboard without first having a keyboard. May 30 17:20:26 * lcuk gives unity wild applause May 30 17:20:29 You have to search for it, which means typing in a search field. May 30 17:20:37 Well, ubuntu haven't really got into the tablet market yet. May 30 17:20:43 can you do copy and paste letter by letter? May 30 17:20:44 Unity is a start I'm sure though May 30 17:20:53 In fact, in theory they're ahead of Intel ;) May 30 17:20:56 or can you not right click in touchscreens *grin* May 30 17:21:10 Yeah, no context menus :( May 30 17:21:20 My exopc came with a sheet of paper that said to hold, then tap with another finger, to get a right-click May 30 17:21:23 but it's never worked for me May 30 17:22:05 akk: I've got hold-and-tap working on the Indamixx build. May 30 17:22:13 Lucky I have a menu button on my keyboard :) May 30 17:22:37 akk: but I thought the part line (MeeGo/Intel) was was to tap-and-hold for the context menu. May 30 17:22:57 I haven't found any apps where longpress does much that's useful either. May 30 17:23:12 (of the built-in apps; still trying to figure out where to get other apps) May 30 17:23:13 akk: longpress depends on which xorg driver you're using. May 30 17:23:37 gabrbedd: I'm just using the one that comes with meego tablet builds. May 30 17:23:40 akk: It's likely that longpress died when they got multitouch working. May 30 17:23:54 (and I think the graphics are intel, so that should be the driver it's using) May 30 17:24:02 akk: In that change the xorg driver switch from evtouch to mtev. May 30 17:24:36 Anyway, I'll be updating my c.OBS version of mtev with hold-and-tap (2-finger right-click gesture) May 30 17:24:43 ...updating it today. May 30 17:25:11 I prefer tap and hold ... May 30 17:25:15 Oh well May 30 17:25:32 Tap and hold is a lot more discoverable. May 30 17:25:40 But once you discover it, the 2-finger thing is probably fine. May 30 17:25:59 When I went to implement it... I considered tap-and-hold. May 30 17:26:00 (and in truth, I didn't discover tap and hold on android either, I had to read about it first) May 30 17:26:25 I didn't do it because (a) you have to provide user feedback that they've held for long enough... May 30 17:26:37 And (b) it's slower. I like fast. May 30 17:26:39 :-) May 30 17:26:47 I think it would be nice to have both types of events. So you could have hold do one thing, and still have 2-finger for a context menu. May 30 17:27:10 That's true, waiting for longpress can be really annoying in android. May 30 17:27:24 And if you don't wait quite long enough then the wrong thing happens (a left click). May 30 17:28:24 akk: it's annoying in windows, too... and they even have that "draw a circle around your finger to show you that you're about to right-click" thing. May 30 17:28:52 Yeah, that sounds like a good idea but probably wouldn't help much. May 30 17:29:09 In android I tend to look away (distractions) while I'm waiting for a longpress. May 30 17:30:33 akk: BTW Intel quitly released UI guidelines here: https://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.2/meego-tablet-developer-preview May 30 17:30:45 (next-to-last bullet point has link to PDF with UI guidelines) May 30 17:30:49 hi May 30 17:31:30 Linux 3.0.0-rc1 has been tagged May 30 17:32:09 blindfish: howdy May 30 17:32:24 CosmoHill: Really? Why 3.0? May 30 17:32:42 Why would they skip 2.8? May 30 17:33:01 community based decision made by Linux alone May 30 17:33:05 something to do with Linux entering it's 3rd decade May 30 17:33:06 Linus even May 30 17:33:34 if absolutly nothing has changed I'm not sure why it needs to go from 2.6.40 to 3.0.0 May 30 17:33:52 CosmoHill: three words: marketing. May 30 17:34:05 They should at least have let it go to 42. :) May 30 17:34:09 gabrbedd: including the "three words" words? May 30 17:34:12 MeeGo 1.2 running Web 2.0 on Linux 3.0.0 May 30 17:34:33 akk: I think that was mentioned May 30 17:34:36 with IPv-6 May 30 17:34:37 CosmoHill: It's not 3.0.0, it's 3.0 May 30 17:34:44 Any word on whether this fancy new 3.0 kernel will solve the huge power management regressions? May 30 17:34:45 lkml.org has been slashdotted. :-) May 30 17:35:04 * akk still trying to use old kernels on laptops because current ones use so much battery May 30 17:35:18 https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/5/29/204 May 30 17:35:23 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTUwMg May 30 17:35:27 Linus's announcement. May 30 17:35:41 everyone should now throw away their devices with linux 2.6 kernels May 30 17:35:43 they're old May 30 17:35:59 "go forth and test" << lol May 30 17:36:03 "bikeshed painting" -- how formal May 30 17:36:38 "can May 30 17:36:38 "So what are the big changes?" May 30 17:36:45 "NOTHING. Absolutely nothing." May 30 17:36:46 Love it! May 30 17:36:50 no longe rcomfortably count as high as 40" -- weren't there like 140 2.3 kernels? May 30 17:37:09 2.3 is the unstable branch May 30 17:37:19 oh yeah, odd numbers no longer mean it's unstable May 30 17:37:42 even counting to 20 he has to take off his shoes May 30 17:38:50 thiago_HEL: he was younger back then. Thus the "no longer" May 30 17:38:57 ah, I see your point May 30 17:39:01 :-) May 30 17:39:32 older people are more risk-averse, even with counting ? May 30 17:39:52 berndhs: what were we talking about? May 30 17:40:03 Qt 5.0 will break ABI and will add new features -- though it should instead do just one, not both May 30 17:40:04 * gabrbedd needs to take a nap May 30 17:40:10 140 .. 38 .. May 30 17:40:34 perl 6 does that too iirc May 30 17:41:06 yeah just break the ABI, leave the features as they are May 30 17:41:25 we should, but that's not the plan May 30 17:41:40 we should add the Scene Graph and call it 4.9, then clean that up and make it 5.0 May 30 17:42:03 but seeing as 4.8 isn't out yet and MeeGo needs Scene Graph by October, it's not realistic May 30 17:43:01 thiago_HEL: I'm glad you're at least considering it, though. May 30 17:43:32 thiago_HEL: why does meego _need_ scene graph by october? May 30 17:43:58 Probably for quicker QML .. May 30 17:44:04 performance May 30 17:44:08 scenegraph is that good May 30 17:44:15 :) May 30 17:44:22 removes a couple of layers of abstraction from QML to the OpenGL May 30 17:44:37 And it's much more flexible May 30 17:44:44 Effects and such May 30 17:44:47 yep i know that. May 30 17:45:00 i would like to be able to subclass the QML stuff in C++ May 30 17:45:02 (that's what I'm waiting for) May 30 17:45:15 Being able to inline GLSL :) May 30 17:45:17 the question was more along the lines if QtQuick 1.0 (non-scenegraph) would work on wayland and/or if wayland was the reason why it needs scene graph May 30 17:45:38 both things could work separately May 30 17:45:48 thp: neah, I think it is definitely the performance they're looking for. May 30 17:45:53 GV-based QML can work on wayland, using both the raster and opengl engines May 30 17:45:56 It's probably the largest complaint against QML May 30 17:46:08 scenegraph-based QML can work on X11 too, provided you give it a GL widget May 30 17:46:44 only problem will be that scenegraph-based QML will be API incompatible with QGraphicsItem-based QML components May 30 17:46:57 QML API or C++ API? May 30 17:47:01 C++ May 30 17:47:11 yeah, the C++ one will May 30 17:47:21 so plugins need to be rewritten to make use of SG May 30 17:47:57 ..which could lead to lots of disgruntled developers May 30 17:48:02 I should probably make a note to start migrating at that point :) May 30 17:48:29 you should look into writing your graphical plugins in pure QML May 30 17:48:34 How API incompatible are we talking? May 30 17:48:45 leave the C++ plugins for system integration and other tasks May 30 17:48:48 ("wth, i thought qt was working on meego, now i need to port my qwidget uis to qml", and then six months later "wth, i thought qml was working on meego, no i need to rewrite my c++ qml plugins") May 30 17:48:56 Oooo, plugins .. May 30 17:49:01 alterego: well, completely different. Starts by not having a paint() call. May 30 17:49:33 thiago_HEL: interesting, luckily my big app, the plugin isn't graphical. May 30 17:49:43 thp: you don't have to. Qt Quick 1 will still work. And unlike widgets, it does look good. May 30 17:50:10 thiago_HEL: so scene graph will just be an option? is that true for Qt 5 as well? May 30 17:50:23 Qt 5 will have scene graph as a mandatory component May 30 17:50:33 but you can use GV and GV-based Qt Quick if you want May 30 17:50:44 ok, that's cool then :) May 30 17:50:49 ok, flight to Tampere is boarding May 30 17:51:08 cya May 30 17:51:20 Caio May 30 18:10:30 hey, there used to be modem-modeswitch package in the meego repos, but I can't find it anymore. No biggie, but I can't get my Huawei 3G recognized without it... May 30 18:12:49 delac: sure that it's not usb-modeswitch? May 30 18:36:47 delac, dm8tbr: maybe that usb-modeswitch should be a feature in ofono? May 30 18:37:14 yay for reinventing the wheel!? May 30 18:39:13 btw: IIRC that modem kernel module implemented some of the modeswitch things May 30 18:39:42 I have no idea what kind of app is usb-modeswitch can't recall using it ever May 30 18:40:24 Last time I had problems with my huawei usb stick I disabled the "USB CD" or what ever it is with AT commands ;) May 30 18:40:36 haven't had problems since :P May 30 18:42:56 Sage_: so did I with my A-link 3GU May 30 18:43:50 the usb-modeswitch thing basically triggers e.g. via udev and sends an eject signal (or whatever is needed by that particular modem) May 30 18:44:11 ok, so working with udev pretty much May 30 18:44:33 btw, anyone know if nokia cs-15 3g modem has AT command to disable the USB CD? May 30 18:44:36 IIRC some of that got implemented in the option kernel driver which does not only handle option buty pretty much everything else that is tty-based May 30 18:44:57 give me one to try ;) May 30 18:45:20 I managed to disable it in my A-link by switching to 'debug mode' May 30 18:45:49 Sage_: USB CD? May 30 18:46:00 Sage_: Oh - I've no idea what that is. May 30 18:46:27 SpeedEvil: It is the virtual CD rom drive that is mounted when pluggin in the USB 3G sticks May 30 18:46:34 Sage_, i don't recall there being an AT command to kill the usbpart May 30 18:46:37 not sure what it is called exactly May 30 18:46:45 yeah - I read the part about it being a modem. I have no idea how that works. May 30 18:46:51 i know i've passed umount via udev to unmount them on the sierra modems May 30 18:47:44 you could always set fstab to ignore it, probably the easiest method May 30 18:49:32 ehci involving hubs is downright wonky... May 30 18:51:10 Sage_: that's an application for usb_modeswitch or a script to eject the device through udev, right there :) May 30 18:52:21 http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=581681 <- my problems with cs-15 and dd-wrt. Huawei E1820 (with disabled virtual cd) worked fine but the cs-15 didn't May 30 18:55:10 yes, I think it is the usb-modeswitch after all. Cheked the repos and that is there. The reason it didnt show up in meego is because the internet connection was down. Though meego was happily telling me that it's OK. Took a while to notice that it aint... May 30 18:55:33 dd-wrt drives me nuts lately **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon May 30 18:58:39 2011 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 30 19:00:14 2011 May 30 19:04:45 * dm8tbr stopped caring for *-wrt May 30 19:05:05 if I'll need to set up something small it will be an alix and run debian or meego May 30 19:05:34 btw: do we have router-UX yet? (would be a web interface obviously) May 30 19:27:01 What is the correct way to get a package (specifically mysql) available in MeeGo? May 30 19:27:26 zypper install mysql from the terminal May 30 19:27:33 if it is in the repos May 30 19:28:47 acydlord: Sorry, I meant how to get it added to the repo May 30 19:29:13 I have heard there is supposed to be a request procedure May 30 19:29:37 fiferboy: get an account on build.pub.meego.com, then you have your own repo. Put it in there. May 30 19:29:39 you mean a build you compiled, or to request someone to build it for meego? May 30 19:30:23 berndhs: That is a possibility, but my end goal would be to get the qt mysql plugin added May 30 19:30:40 Apparently the blocker for not building the mysql plugin is that there is no mysql package in the core May 30 19:31:14 fiferboy, what I gather is core wants maintainers, not just porters May 30 19:31:43 so that someone who will track upstream (in your case mysql) and also keep the latest stable version available May 30 19:32:52 lcuk: Hmm May 30 19:46:32 fiferboy: yep... somebody has to maintain it in c.OBS. For it to be merged into MeeGo proper, there needs to be a reason. May 30 19:47:50 fiferboy: I.e. you must answer the question, "Why does a mobile device need the mysql client libs or the mysql server?" May 30 19:55:55 fiferboy, still stuck in CA. :/ May 30 20:03:02 gabrbedd: Thanks for the information May 30 20:03:22 So you are saying there has to be more reason than me just wanting it? May 30 20:03:42 GAN900: Admit it, you are staying for the orange juice :P May 30 20:04:32 fiferboy: To get it into c.OBS (community OBS) -- no. You don't even need a reason. May 30 20:05:09 fiferboy: to get it into meego -- yes, there must be a reason. Adding it to MeeGo also adds maintenance and QA overhead (i.e. cost)... May 30 20:05:21 so there needs to be some sort of benefit to the project from the added cost. May 30 20:05:23 Is there a place to browse packages that are in OBS, advertise your packages there and see other people's packages? May 30 20:05:47 gabrbedd: Thanks again. I'll look into putting it in my public repo first May 30 20:05:54 akk: Yeah, just go to http://build.meego.com and http://build.pub.meego.com May 30 20:06:15 akk: Then click "List of All Projects"... May 30 20:06:23 I was looking at that, https://build.pub.meego.com/project/list_public May 30 20:06:36 akk: Then uncheck the thing that says "exclude users home projects" May 30 20:06:51 Aha! That's what I was missing. May 30 20:07:21 As for a raw listing of packages... I dunno if that's currently possible through the web interface. May 30 20:07:27 It looks like it's mostly just a list of users, though. May 30 20:07:46 Not a way to look around and say "Oh, cool, an app to do [X], just what I was hoping for!" May 30 20:07:51 fiferboy, ohgod. Well, at least its not that European shit. May 30 20:07:52 or "what games can I install?" or whatever May 30 20:08:03 Stomach bug, had to cancel my flight. May 30 20:08:05 akk: But the search does OK. May 30 20:08:24 akk: sounds like a good thing for a feature request, though. :-) May 30 20:08:24 Was $300 cheaper to cancel and rebook than to reschedule. May 30 20:08:56 gabrbedd: If I search for game, I get 0 hits. Is it really true that there's not a single game in community obs? May 30 20:09:14 * akk isn't worried about finding games specifically, this just seemed like a good test of how people would look for programs May 30 20:09:41 akk: needs to match the package name. So if the package isn't called 'game' then it won't appear. May 30 20:10:04 So really, there's no hope of a user ever finding my program that I check into OBS. May 30 20:10:19 Or me being able to search for programs I want to run. May 30 20:10:23 akk: Like I said, sounds like a good feature request, because it would be good. May 30 20:10:32 Where would I request that feature? May 30 20:10:33 GAN900: Stomach bug due to orange juice? May 30 20:10:34 akk: why so fatalistic? May 30 20:10:39 akk: bugs.meego.com May 30 20:10:57 akk: there's a section for IT/infrastructure May 30 20:11:00 I've been trying to get into meego development -- writing programs for it is refreshingly easy, but then I hit a wall - -there's no way to make those programs available. May 30 20:11:08 (Except put them on my website and hope people use google) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon May 30 20:11:13 2011 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 30 20:12:15 2011 May 30 20:12:17 akk: IIRC it has a basic web interface for browsing/searching apps May 30 20:12:52 https://build.pub.meego.com/search May 30 20:12:53 akk: that stuff should/will be there, eventually. But at the moment the majority of MeeGo users are developers (not users). ;-) May 30 20:12:58 fiferboy: Where is it? I didn't see it starting from the main obs page. May 30 20:13:42 akk: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=MeeGo%3A1.2%3AApps%3ATesting May 30 20:13:50 berndhs: thanks, that works better than the other search. Maybe that should be linked in some obvious way. May 30 20:14:18 fiferboy, could be. Drank an awful lot of it. May 30 20:14:35 * akk is still waiting to get an obs account in the first place ... holiday weekend right after a major conference turns out to be a bad time to ask for things :) May 30 20:15:04 if you want to advertise a package, you can get a web page for it someplace else and point to your repo May 30 20:15:04 not as nice as advertising on something.meego.com May 30 20:15:30 well you can do meego.something.xxx May 30 20:16:07 berndhs: Right, maybe people will search for meego stuff by googling for meego [otherkeywords] May 30 20:16:27 mysql is being kept out of core for a reason... May 30 20:16:40 I hope eventually there'll be something like an app store or apt/synaptic or something. May 30 20:16:49 there is zypper May 30 20:17:07 sofar: Do you know the reason? May 30 20:17:13 and the "manage software" app is pretty much like synaptc May 30 20:17:21 akk: do you have a meego.com account? May 30 20:17:31 But zypper will only search what's formally in meego (and repositories you specifically add manually), right? May 30 20:17:33 gabrbedd: yes May 30 20:17:37 acydlord: that's actually specific to the Netbook UX. May 30 20:17:53 ahh, i've only used the netbook and tablet versions May 30 20:18:19 akk: I've seen both lbt and X-Fade on here today. Have you tried asking them for a c.OBS account? May 30 20:18:21 fiferboy: too heavy resource wise, should not ne needed on mobile devices in the first place May 30 20:18:40 gabrbedd: I sent mail yesterday or the day before -- they weren't around when I asked on IRC. May 30 20:19:07 I can understand being busy after the conf, though ... I'm not whining about that. May 30 20:19:14 akk: didn't see it May 30 20:19:16 I am mostly interested in the mysql client so I can communicate with off-device databases May 30 20:20:09 lbt: Can I just ask you now? Accountname is akkana. May 30 20:20:17 oh, yes I did May 30 20:20:24 I enabled you and forgot to reply :) May 30 20:20:51 Oh, thanks! May 30 20:20:52 fiferboy: if you can package just the client bits... I imagine it stands a better chance. May 30 20:23:26 fiferboy: there's a good argument for the libmysqlclient, we can see about that May 30 20:23:31 ah, no, I see - X-Fade enabled it and replied to me and himself... and that's why... akk, you seem to have set the Mail-Followup-To: wrong in your email client May 30 20:24:01 fiferboy: I hope you're not calling the `mysql` program and talk to it over pipes :) May 30 20:24:14 gabrbedd, sofar: That would suit my needs May 30 20:24:29 sofar: No, I am using the qt mysql plugin May 30 20:24:35 Really? I didn't think mutt set Mail-Followup-To: at all. May 30 20:24:38 What does it set it to? May 30 20:24:51 Mail-Followup-To: david@dgreaves.com, niels@maemo.org May 30 20:25:18 ?? where would that have come from? May 30 20:25:28 fiferboy: is that not already supported in the core? I thought we package the qtmysql stuff already May 30 20:25:52 sofar: sqlite is supported, but the mysql plugin is not built due to the missing mysql client package May 30 20:26:06 akk: Mutt ? May 30 20:26:18 sofar: At least, the last time I checked (which I think was the 1.2 release not long ago) May 30 20:26:48 fiferboy: I'd almost suggest filing a bugreport on that May 30 20:26:54 on bugs.meego.com May 30 20:27:18 there's a bytefx-data-mysql -- but that's all I see May 30 20:28:00 yeah it's not in OBS except for some personal experiments May 30 20:28:12 sofar: There is already a bug report for the qt mysql plugin, but it was closed saying the mysql library was required May 30 20:28:41 sofar: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6869 May 30 20:28:45 Bug 6869 nor, Undecided, ---, gavin.hindman, INDE, [FEA] Could qt open mysql support? May 30 20:28:45 fiferboy: send me the bugzilla number by e-mail and I'll track it next week when I'm at work May 30 20:28:52 auke-jan.h.kok@intel.com pls May 30 20:29:02 I'm at home right now May 30 20:29:07 sofar: Will do May 30 20:29:21 I'll see what I can do about it May 30 20:29:47 I know we have some requests for it from odd angles and it might just be a good time to add the client library to core May 30 20:29:49 sofar: Thanks! May 30 20:29:57 geebers, netsplat **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 31 07:34:15 2011 May 31 07:34:33 thp: try prod janne1 May 31 07:35:35 strange on the meego website about the image with chrome. sais that the s10-3t doesnt have the broadcom card working out of the box... when I installed that image on mine it worked out of the box. only thing I had to do was to set up my wifi at home manually. for some reason it wouldnt connect to the one it found... May 31 07:35:58 some of them have atheros wifi May 31 07:36:04 mine has broadcom May 31 07:36:44 1.2 it worked no issue May 31 07:36:56 on 1.1 I had to set up the wifi driver May 31 07:37:14 and it was a bitch to get my iphone tethering working... May 31 07:37:57 Stskeeps: on irc? basically i want to get bug 17461 fixed, which requires a "rm" command to be removed from the .ks file May 31 07:38:00 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17461 nor, Low, ---, jerry.yu, NEED, Can't use Accelerometer Sensor in ExoPC with MeeGo Table pre-alpha OS May 31 07:38:02 on 1.2 I have to use tethering via bluetooth, wont work via cable for some weird reason May 31 07:38:37 (got same issue in ubuntu. in windows and sles 11 it works May 31 07:38:38 thp: ah - then you should mail meego-releases@ i guess May 31 07:40:50 one thing that got me puzzled with 1.2 was that the native twitter support was gone... (had to use the solution from the forum to get it working) May 31 07:43:27 Stskeeps: wonder if http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-releases should be linked from http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering#Team May 31 07:43:57 should be probably May 31 07:44:01 edit it? May 31 07:46:49 done **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 31 07:48:14 2011 May 31 07:48:29 I myself try to find out too, though :-P May 31 07:48:30 yeah, but I know you like processes ;) May 31 07:48:44 tomeu, not if they are partially braindead... ;-) May 31 07:50:14 andre__, :D May 31 07:50:25 next time I'm on a RT, I will also want to hide the contact May 31 07:50:50 anyway, until that bug is (hopefully) fixed, one can get accelerometer fun on the ExoPC using http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/ExoPC#Accelerometer May 31 07:51:22 tomeu: so shall I propose you once I will leave that other release-team I'm in. ;-) May 31 07:51:46 not sure, that RT seems to realize the importance of being contactable by the community May 31 07:52:02 which one? MeeGo or Gnome? :-P May 31 07:52:12 i've not had trouble with meego release team lately, personally May 31 07:53:22 me neither, though some activity is just completely invisible. but we all know that... :) May 31 08:46:53 argh! meego-releases@ wants me to be a subscriber. May 31 08:47:02 blah, meego-packaging@ is also good May 31 08:47:14 well, all lists require you to be a subscriber May 31 08:49:55 which kind of misses the point in my opinion for something like "being able to bring something to the release team's attention" May 31 08:50:29 generally, -packaging@ is for all packages, -releases@ is for release engineering (trunk, trunk:testing problems, repos, etc) May 31 08:50:33 You can subscribe and disable mails. May 31 09:01:05 when booting the MeeGo netbook live image I receive this error: "mount: / not mounted already, or bad option" - "unable to re-mount root with SSD option" May 31 09:01:27 how can I solve this and get the system to boot? May 31 09:03:37 (booting on an Atom Z530 based board) May 31 09:11:12 jksM: you should have a more relevant error when it tried to mount for the first time May 31 09:46:30 the meego netbook emulator stalls after "starting meego" when run from the terminal linux. May 31 09:59:25 hi I just found that the getext pakcage at meego 1.2 repo is an empty archive which does not install anything, is it a known issue May 31 10:05:59 tomeu, no such error was displayed... I also tried booting without the quiet boot option, but didn't get such an error either May 31 10:06:25 tomeu, even without quiet it stops emitting messages at some point, where it clears the screen and I get a blink cursor at the top left corner of the screen May 31 10:06:40 is there a boot option for meego that will increase the verbosity of debug messages perhaps? May 31 10:07:56 andre__, thanks! May 31 10:08:14 jksM: then maybe root was mounted correctly and it's a wrong remount option May 31 10:08:32 and that remount may not be a real symptom of the problem you are having May 31 10:55:59 hi everyOne May 31 10:56:23 i want to install Meego emulator on Ubuntu 10.04 what's the best way for it ? May 31 10:56:56 Night-Hacks: probably the sdk installation notes on the wiki May 31 10:57:17 installing its SDK with apt. May 31 10:57:33 ? May 31 10:58:03 is meego 1.2 available ? May 31 10:58:07 try May 31 10:58:09 http://developer.meego.com/guides/getting-started/getting-started-meego-v1.2-sdk-linux May 31 10:59:10 i wanted to install it via apt. May 31 10:59:32 but it looks 1.2 is available just in installer May 31 11:08:27 installer says May 31 11:08:47 Error downloading May 31 11:08:55 from ... amazon site ! May 31 11:09:02 what's the problem May 31 11:09:03 ? May 31 11:09:34 i think it's amazon web services May 31 11:11:22 any idea ? May 31 11:12:08 Night-Hacks: are you sure that you have teh latest installer (20110519)? May 31 11:12:38 eg81: yeah it is May 31 11:13:09 server replies forbidden May 31 11:13:18 tomeu, I assume it's something that Meego "does" May 31 11:13:29 tomeu, I wonder what that SSD remount option means (I'm running it off an SSD) May 31 11:15:07 the first step is BUG ! May 31 11:44:38 Has anyone upgraded ubuntu-10.04 to 11.04 an dgot mic and osc working? May 31 11:45:37 maitrey: never seen that stuff work on any ubuntu version... didn't bother trying 11.04 though May 31 12:05:46 to which path third party application must be installed in case of Meego May 31 12:06:03 i am using 1.2tablet image May 31 12:06:58 bkalinga: /opt/my_application i think May 31 12:07:22 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-03-14 17:44 opt May 31 12:07:47 opt is owned by root May 31 12:08:06 so can my application create some generated files inside that May 31 12:08:50 bkalinga: http://gabrbedd.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/meego-compliance-why-installing-to-opt-is-a-good-thing/ May 31 12:09:29 bkalinga: the user is root when something is installed with the package manager, so the /opt/my_application could be created May 31 12:09:32 but in Meego this folder is owned by root May 31 12:09:41 so would it create any problem May 31 12:09:58 while you run your application as user "meego" May 31 12:10:53 consider u run meego-im-uiserver as user "meego" May 31 12:11:17 that loads a shared library which will create some temp files in /opt May 31 12:11:26 is it possible?? May 31 12:11:39 bkalinga: i'm not sure because I havn't a meego device near me, but put in the worst case, create a subfolder my_files in the .spec with the chmod 777 and then you will be able to do whatever you want inside it as a normal user :) May 31 12:12:10 bkalinga: /usr/bin is owned by root, also -- but there is no security issue. May 31 12:12:20 bkalinga: when you first install you application and the .spec file is executed, the user is root, so you could do what you want May 31 12:12:56 bkalinga: so in your spec, you could ask to create all the subfolders you want with the right you want in /opt/my_application May 31 12:13:09 s/right/rights May 31 12:13:32 gabrbedd: can a process start with user meego can create temp files inside /usr/bon May 31 12:13:39 */usr/bin May 31 12:14:08 Greatgib: i understand while installing it can create May 31 12:14:24 but what about during the execution May 31 12:14:57 bkalinga: No, you cannot create temporary files in /usr/bin or in /opt -- but this wasn't your original question. May 31 12:15:05 bkalinga: no because your a not supposed to do that, except if you want to ask for the sudo right to the user at runtime May 31 12:15:24 gabrbedd: that is my original question May 31 12:15:29 bkalinga: you can create temporary files in /tmp or any any folder where the user has write permission May 31 12:15:46 bkalinga: The preferred location is ~/.cache/my_appname/ May 31 12:15:53 bkalinga: but isn't it a solution for you to create at installation the folder: /opt/my_app/tmp May 31 12:16:04 chmod it to 777 May 31 12:16:14 and then as a normal user you could put files inside May 31 12:16:35 Greatgib: do not do that. May 31 12:17:27 Lets say some third party application has a data folder where it has its own pre-installed content May 31 12:17:35 and wants to add more into it May 31 12:17:46 then now what is the best solution May 31 12:17:55 gabrbedd: it is not the best, but for example if you create a game and want to downlaod later the resources for it, that is a better place than ~/... May 31 12:18:24 i think there must be a standard folder for this in MeeGo May 31 12:18:37 Greatgib: why is it better than ~/.cache/ ?? That's what ~/.cache is for. May 31 12:18:52 And how is it better to put it in /opt for a single-user installation? May 31 12:19:09 I dont prefer to put my application in ~/cache May 31 12:20:17 but why shouldn't it ask for root credentials if you try to install other things later ? May 31 12:20:19 Compliance spec allows you to also install in /var/opt/packagename May 31 12:20:27 gabrbedd: in that case it is not cache datas, it is additional persistent datas May 31 12:20:31 And that's where it belongs. May 31 12:20:53 you can use opt, and then, when you want to update the installation, use opt again while asking for root password May 31 12:21:10 gabrbedd: /var/opt/packagename is a good place :) May 31 12:22:07 But using ~/.cache/packagename is better than using giving /var/opt/packagename 777 permissions. May 31 12:22:47 Lets say i install my application in /var/opt/kalinga/ May 31 12:23:06 Don't install your application in /var/opt/kalinga May 31 12:23:11 how can i give permission to "meego" so that it can write insto this path latter May 31 12:23:50 bkalinga: meego has full permissions to write to ~/.cache/packagename May 31 12:24:15 bkalinga: What is the problem with using ~/.cache ? May 31 12:25:31 no problem but i had impression that usully people delete this folder May 31 12:25:38 bkalinga: why do you want to write inside your installation folder ? May 31 12:26:01 bkalinga: usually people have no clue that the folder exists. May 31 12:26:10 ainstallation folder contain some initial data May 31 12:26:14 if it's temporary or congiguration data, it should be in the home folder May 31 12:26:25 over the period of time that data needs to be modified May 31 12:26:30 bkalinga: however, they can delete the folder if they want to clean things up -- in which case you'll just re-download the data. May 31 12:26:54 bkalinga: just do like usual Linux programs May 31 12:27:22 sone default configuration inside /opt or /etc or whatever depending on the distributions's compliance May 31 12:27:40 and then inside the home folder, user specific configuration changes May 31 12:28:24 chouchoune: when ever you say installation folder..what do you mean by that? May 31 12:28:28 the user meego, over the time, will have the ability to change settings through it's own home folder May 31 12:28:37 /opt May 31 12:28:44 where you have your binaries May 31 12:28:55 and the program you launch May 31 12:29:12 binaries/libraries/etc... May 31 12:29:31 ok i prefer putting them into /usr/local/bin or /usr/bin /usr/local/lib /usr/lib May 31 12:29:51 but i have kind of configuration data May 31 12:29:57 but apparently it's not the Meego way to do it May 31 12:30:30 ok, let me check meego compliance folders exactly ;) May 31 12:30:59 please point me to link if any exists May 31 12:32:14 gabrbedd: My understanding is binaries should go to ~/.cache/kalinga May 31 12:32:31 but where must i put my configuration files May 31 12:32:38 bkalinga: What? No. May 31 12:32:46 http://gabrbedd.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/meego-compliance-why-installing-to-opt-is-a-good-thing/ May 31 12:32:49 bkalinga: Install your application in /opt/packagename May 31 12:32:54 here, it's written at the beginning May 31 12:33:05 /etc/opt/packagename I would say May 31 12:33:24 chainsawbike: /etc is for configuration files. May 31 12:33:52 bkalinga: When you install your package, all the files installed from the RPM are recorded in the RPM database. May 31 12:33:53 yes, that's why your configuration should go to /etc/opt/packagename May 31 12:34:09 bkalinga: If you add extra stuff... how will RPM know to delete it when you uninstall? May 31 12:34:36 %ghost May 31 12:34:49 or something like that iirc May 31 12:34:49 and after, when running the application at the user level, you can update your configuration through a second conf file located in the user's directory May 31 12:34:54 temp file are generated and cleaned up by the app May 31 12:35:00 bkalinga: How will RPM know to go and delete the stuff that you added in /var/opt/packagename/world_writeable_folder ? May 31 12:35:04 so rpm does not need this info May 31 12:35:11 and the configurations from there could override the "global configurations" May 31 12:35:27 bkalinga: RPM doesn't run your app. It just cleans up files. May 31 12:36:07 * lcuk peeks in May 31 12:36:29 gabrbedd: your question was if I add extra stuff(i mean generated files during execution) May 31 12:37:11 right. May 31 12:37:25 Will the extra stuff appear in `rpm -ql packagename` May 31 12:37:35 If not, then you've undermined RPM. May 31 12:37:37 they can not be accessed by rpm May 31 12:37:43 * Stskeeps ponders if meego-ux-components can be used on top of stock qt May 31 12:37:45 in windows May 31 12:37:55 * gabrbedd has to take kids to school, brb May 31 12:38:01 they will be deleted by my application May 31 12:38:13 Stskeeps: it's installable on regular linux, at least, so it has some degree of portability May 31 12:38:18 before my app exits May 31 12:38:25 bkalinga: during the same execution that created them ? May 31 12:38:34 ok, so why not /tmp ? May 31 12:38:36 w00t_: requires meego-ux-daemon or not? May 31 12:38:49 w00t_, what about the rest of the meego api? May 31 12:38:52 Stskeeps: not sure, villev might know May 31 12:38:53 or meego-qml-launcher May 31 12:38:54 ok May 31 12:39:18 yes...Yes I agree those could have created in /tmp but i am using a third party engine that does all this May 31 12:39:48 w00t_: i'm trying to have a compelling story for my wife to do meego app devel that does not in some way involve symbian components May 31 12:39:51 :P May 31 12:39:58 it takes my application settings as the base path to create those temp files May 31 12:40:27 so i cant change their behaviour rather place my stuff so that the third party lib works perfectly May 31 12:40:32 * lcuk had tracy tagging and grouping sketches most of yesterday afternoon :) May 31 12:40:36 she said it was very relaxing May 31 12:41:07 Stskeeps: -nod-.. if it doesn't already, it really will need to at some point for SDK May 31 12:41:22 Stskeeps, where are symbian components needed? May 31 12:41:33 and why are they a bother if you write in qt/qml? May 31 12:41:42 bkalinga: chouchoune: 2 things: May 31 12:41:51 if anything that just shows another market for the same app May 31 12:41:57 lcuk: well, because that's the only ones that work with qt creator with no runtimes needed May 31 12:42:03 1) i think that your configuration should go to /opt/application/etc and not /etc/opt/application May 31 12:42:34 Stskeeps,ok so supposing you used that sdk to create a qt/qml app May 31 12:42:39 and it runs on symbian May 31 12:42:52 Greatgib: 2) binaries? May 31 12:42:55 what is the developer story (since you like these) to just submitting it to meego? May 31 12:43:09 i have liqcalendar in qt now May 31 12:43:09 2) To remove files in /var/opt/application_name/blablabla_dynamic_added_files, just add a "rm /var/opt/application_name/*" in the uninstall section of your .spec May 31 12:43:11 lcuk: probably no difficulty, but i'd like to have some kind of uniform inteface May 31 12:43:14 and it shows on the symian simulator May 31 12:43:21 so how can I deploy it to meego May 31 12:43:35 2)binaries must go to : /opt/packagename correct me if i am wrong May 31 12:43:45 bkalinga: it is really simple, everything that is in your package go inside in /opt/my_package/ May 31 12:44:17 Stskeeps, sure thing May 31 12:44:24 but there are hundreds of similar qt apps now May 31 12:44:28 designed for small mobile May 31 12:44:28 you could use something like "prefix" in your .spec so that files of your application that go to /usr/share , or /etc go to /opt/my_package/usr/share and /opt/my_package/etc May 31 12:44:33 designed for low power use May 31 12:44:49 written in the "right" toolkit (qt) May 31 12:44:53 how do each of those developers get them onto meego? May 31 12:45:23 and for things that you will download yourself, of additional binaries and things like that, add that to /var/opt/my_application/* May 31 12:45:27 at conferences around the world, hundreds of apps are made May 31 12:45:32 but we never see them deployed May 31 12:45:34 as a user meego will u be able to write into /opt/my_package/ May 31 12:45:37 no matter how crappy May 31 12:45:46 and in your .spec add a rule at uninstall to delete everthing in /var/opt/my_package May 31 12:45:55 at barcamp, I saw a talk/presentation for android that was publishing an android app May 31 12:46:02 by the end of the presentation it was submitted May 31 12:46:10 and for user configuration and things like that, put that in ~/.cache/ or ~/.my_application etc.... May 31 12:46:11 and on android marketplace thingy May 31 12:46:35 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-03-14 17:44 opt May 31 12:46:36 that is a developer story, how close in meego can we get? May 31 12:46:51 Greatgib: An application shall be installed to /opt/packagename/ and, if necessary to the May 31 12:46:53 /etc/opt/packagename/ and /var/opt/packagename/ directories. System wide May 31 12:46:55 configuration files shall be placed in the /etc/opt/packagename directory, rather than directly in May 31 12:46:57 data from a package, such as lock files, cached files, etc. shall be placed in the May 31 12:46:59 /var/opt/packagename directory rather than directly in /var , unless a specific location is May 31 12:47:01 lcuk: sorry, i lost track at "sure thing" May 31 12:47:01 necessary for the application or system to operate correctly. User.specific files shall be stored in the May 31 12:47:03 ~/.config/packagename directory. The rationale for these rules is to avoid filename clashes May 31 12:47:03 bkalinga: in your .spec file, you could change the rights of the folder of your application to whatever you want, but the best is to have things that never change in /opt/my_application May 31 12:47:03 that's too long, chouchoune May 31 12:47:05 between application packages and system files, by defining portions of the filesystem certain to be May 31 12:47:07 unique to that application. May 31 12:47:13 sorry for the blood May 31 12:47:35 well Stskeeps you said you wanted a uniform interface May 31 12:47:41 the apps are written in qt May 31 12:47:44 ,things that change in /var/opt/my_application, and user specific things like configuration in ~/.config/my_app , ~/.cache/my_app, etc... May 31 12:48:36 so configuration goes in /etc/opt/packagename rather then /opt/packagename/etc May 31 12:49:00 http://wiki.meego.com/images/MeeGo-Compliance-Spec-1.1.0.0.pdf May 31 12:49:11 (for the Compliance doc) May 31 12:49:15 chouchoune: yes it would be best :) But you could have my_config.default.ini un /opt/packagename/etc and my_config in /etc/opt/... May 31 12:49:49 no May 31 12:49:59 default config should be on /etc/opt May 31 12:50:11 and specific config in .config May 31 12:50:43 because specific config is dependent of the user's action May 31 12:50:53 and can be changed at the user's level May 31 12:56:37 mwichmann: is libmeegotouch currently in 1.2 compliance? May 31 12:56:52 checking May 31 12:56:53 I thought lmt was in platform APIs May 31 12:57:01 (i.e. not in compliance) May 31 12:57:59 yes... these three packages are in the "full compliance" set May 31 12:58:02 - libmeegotouch May 31 12:58:02 - libmeegotouch-l10n-en May 31 12:58:02 - meegotouch-theme May 31 12:58:21 ok May 31 12:58:27 (damnit) May 31 12:58:59 * Stskeeps ponders if upgrading to a ABI/API compatible later version is proper or not May 31 13:05:27 Stskeeps: provided they are compatible, why not? May 31 13:24:02 andre__: I dunno how you can read meego-qa. The lack of decent quoting, randomised replies etc has made my eyes bleed after just one day May 31 13:30:02 Jaffa: at least it's a public ML May 31 13:33:59 w00t: I subscribed because of a comment of "we decided this in internal meetings" May 31 13:35:17 Jaffa, those ones are "very nice" May 31 13:46:41 Jaffa, I have noticed that in genreal the qa- mails are formatted in an understandable manner and the guys in general perform well as a team May 31 13:47:32 after all, they are QA - they try extra hard to ensure quality in everything they do! May 31 13:47:52 lcuk, :o May 31 13:47:53 Heh, pedants. May 31 13:48:08 i need to stop mailing to keep the quality high :P May 31 13:48:25 lol May 31 13:48:32 Increase MeeGo Quality: /kick alterego ! May 31 13:48:38 :-p May 31 13:48:45 nooooooo May 31 13:48:58 why don't we ask png guy to be on the TSG? May 31 13:49:00 gabrbedd, that wasn't so nice May 31 13:49:08 lcuk: at least he asks questions! May 31 13:49:08 :P May 31 13:49:14 indeed May 31 13:49:20 i somehow missed the whole png guy thing May 31 13:49:32 * lcuk runs to #maemo and suggests abill for the council too ;) May 31 13:49:46 iekku, he ensured that every TLA was described May 31 13:49:47 :D May 31 13:49:57 none shall pass without his little question May 31 13:50:04 * gabrbedd hugs alterego May 31 13:50:19 hmmm, lcuk did you try to say "NIH" to him? May 31 13:50:27 i was not at the conf! May 31 13:50:44 * lcuk never been to America May 31 13:50:46 lcuk: you should have been! :p May 31 13:50:55 yes, I should May 31 13:50:55 iekku: is that a reference to knights? May 31 13:51:01 the baby is not here yet either May 31 13:51:19 lcuk: you blacklisted then? ;) May 31 13:51:37 lardman, flight would stop off in NY May 31 13:52:12 lardman, i think yes May 31 13:52:19 I don't know if I am actually, I should try flying soon May 31 13:52:22 iekku: OK, this isn't a terribly positive article... but this is where I learned about the PNG-guy. http://www.sdtimes.com/blog/post/2011/05/26/Meego-SF.aspx May 31 13:52:23 iekku: :) May 31 13:52:40 lcuk: I had to go via NY when I went to SF last year May 31 13:52:47 the knights who say Ni May 31 13:52:55 are not the kinghts who say "Not invented here" May 31 13:52:57 I had direct flight from LHR-SFO and back May 31 13:53:11 lardman, tracy wants to go to ny May 31 13:53:20 lcuk: ah I see May 31 13:53:21 and shouted lots when I suggested going to the conf May 31 13:53:35 and then got practical and moaned about baby May 31 13:53:43 Heh May 31 13:53:44 (which is estimated to be 8-9lbs already May 31 13:53:59 It's a shame you weren't there it was really good (at least for me) :) May 31 13:54:00 iekku: And GAN900 took a picture of him in my session... http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/5758755051/in/set-72157626686547465/ May 31 13:54:08 this is going to be an engineering challenge! May 31 13:54:13 alterego, yeah I know May 31 13:54:42 which one is he? May 31 13:54:53 and why isn't he labelled as the PNG-guy ? ;) May 31 13:54:55 if it was even a fraction as good as the dublin conf, everyone will have set of things to do these coming months May 31 13:55:17 lardman: the asian fellow in the center of the picture, head down and sleeping. May 31 13:55:19 lardman: - left, front row May 31 13:55:36 gabrbedd: ah ok, worn out from all his questions no doubt :) May 31 13:55:47 And writing his javascript. May 31 13:56:27 gabrbedd, nice text May 31 13:56:35 ok real question: who in the channel now *uses* their meego device longterm for things? May 31 13:56:53 lcuk: mine is on full time now, pretty much. May 31 13:56:54 I like how he paints the PNG-guy as an example of how "non-technical" the conference was compared to Google IO May 31 13:56:55 Meego device? May 31 13:57:06 I'm using both, DE for calls, Maemo for email May 31 13:57:13 email and internet. May 31 13:57:21 and music May 31 13:57:26 alterego, so when hacking do you boot into meego May 31 13:57:34 or have you multiple devices? May 31 13:57:51 * lardman heads to meeting May 31 13:57:52 I have multiple devices. May 31 13:58:07 lardman, you need one I gather May 31 13:58:13 but catch you after meeting May 31 13:58:23 wmarone: Yeah, I disagreed with several things in that article. May 31 13:58:57 wmarone: However, when the dude walked in I really did wonder if he was a homeless guy looking for a place to rest. May 31 13:59:05 lcuk: I have an N900, but as I am working on mBarcode and most people still use Maemo, I've not had time to try Meego N900DE yet - planning to give it a go asap though May 31 13:59:09 bbiab May 31 13:59:13 gabrbedd, you did gui principles class? May 31 13:59:29 Nice group of geeks: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7222180&l=f0f310d52b&id=666721077 May 31 13:59:33 lcuk: I beg to differ about good formatting. Who said what in this email? http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-qa/2011-May/001690.html (to pick the one I was responding to) May 31 13:59:44 lcuk: No, it was "Writing Interactive Audio Applications" May 31 13:59:59 gabrbedd: I can believe that, but to use him as a point with which to bash pretty much everyone there... May 31 14:00:12 lcuk: A common mistake in writing an audio app is for the GUI to be too active. May 31 14:01:12 Jaffa, i feel your pain. May 31 14:01:15 wmarone: Well, his point was valid. Without charging admission, you have no way to validate that you have qualified attendees. May 31 14:01:49 wmarone: Thus, it's no big accomplishment to have a "capacity crowd" since anyone can walk off the street and attend. May 31 14:02:22 wmarone: That said, his comments fly in the face of the spirit of MeeGo (openness and transparency). May 31 14:02:39 wmarone: I.e. the reporter just doesn't "get" what we're trying to do. May 31 14:02:44 right May 31 14:03:22 Jaffa, I said in general. you can find corner cases for everything in life - this is obviously a passionate topic and you picked up on it for the internal meetings aspect and jumped into a conversation already ongoing and known by the participants May 31 14:04:02 you will probably find similar in many threads on any ML May 31 14:05:05 but if you do feel it needs more structure then cool beans, high quality *should* be coming from the qa guys :) May 31 14:06:57 alterego, it seems that someone has really been present, i haven't seen any pictures of me in the conference May 31 14:19:07 * gabrbedd coughs May 31 14:19:19 I though quality was more or less repeatability. May 31 14:19:40 So as long as they consistently use poorly formatted e-mails, then it's all good. Right? May 31 14:19:42 :-p May 31 14:30:00 Jaffa, I agree. I have to... :-/ May 31 14:34:54 w00t, pass on congrats to brik May 31 14:35:50 will do, but she's off getting drunk atm May 31 14:35:53 ;) May 31 14:36:46 what does atm mean? May 31 14:36:53 at the moment May 31 14:38:55 ta May 31 14:39:14 w00t, well raise a glass with her later May 31 14:56:37 oooh Intel Remastered art exhibition coming to Manchester this week May 31 14:56:40 * lcuk will go and visit May 31 15:06:09 re May 31 15:07:47 youtube catchup tv + ad block = ad free tv May 31 15:11:33 i am going to reflash 0523 image because i cannot appear to use the latest :s May 31 15:24:19 Hey guys, i wanted to try the new Meego release on my N900. I downloaded the "acceptance-1.1.99.7.20110516.2.DE.2011-05-23.1-mmcblk0p.raw" one. After reading the installation guide, i found out, i have to bring this raw into a new format. the guide says there are already prebuild ones. But why is there already a 1.2.80 build, when the 1.1.99.7 just got released? May 31 15:25:31 the 1.2.80 is the branch for 1.3 development May 31 15:27:06 So to make it clear, the 1.2.8 is the less stable, but the newest version? May 31 15:27:44 the something.80 is less stable than something-else.99, usually May 31 15:28:00 ;). Allright, Thank you. May 31 15:28:06 saying "newest" implies that it is linear, but it isn't May 31 15:29:06 Okay, so, i just wanted to try the 'newest' one, since the 1.1 version was kinda slow for me. May 31 15:29:37 It was a year ago, so i was just probably doing something wrong. But anyways ;) May 31 15:33:51 May 31 15:38:35 where is the best place to look at the pipeline a QML object will go through May 31 15:38:49 from parsing to object generation to rendering? May 31 15:57:30 Stskeeps, regarding your 2012 thread, starting it off with "one of the disadvantages" is perhaps unfortunate wording! May 31 15:58:11 * lcuk was once asked about 2012 devices :) May 31 15:58:36 strangely enough as often as I have tried to get hold of that interview video I have not seen it since May 31 16:00:43 * CosmoHill wishes his mac wouldn't try an index every external hard drive he connected May 31 16:02:21 CosmoHill, lol May 31 16:02:59 * lcuk wonders how many people have seen that video to date and whether I was right in what I said in it May 31 16:32:09 should I install SDK if I plan to do Meego development ON Meego netbook? And if so, do I need to install the netbook target too? May 31 16:38:27 this is a REALLY silly question May 31 16:38:34 * CosmoHill installs Fedora 15 May 31 16:38:36 but is there a MeeGO SDK image yet? May 31 16:38:47 ie, like I get a pinetrail meego tablet UX image May 31 16:39:02 can I get a similar SDK image with osc/OBS all configured and ready to use May 31 16:39:11 I have a machine here that will happily boot meego May 31 16:39:25 but wheneever I peer at OBS itis overwhelming May 31 16:39:41 lcuk: you could install a normal image of meego 1.2 for netbook May 31 16:39:53 lcuk: and then install developer tools May 31 16:40:04 sure I could May 31 16:40:15 but you are missing the point of what I am considering May 31 16:40:19 I run meego daily already May 31 16:40:20 how well does that work? May 31 16:40:29 I develop (non qt) apps in it May 31 16:40:41 lcuk: there is a filter somthing like "developers-tools" so in one command with zypper you could install everything you need May 31 16:40:50 but whenever I try and configure OBS and osc and all the sdk stuff May 31 16:40:53 it is confusing May 31 16:41:06 qt-creator should work fine for non-qt stuff May 31 16:41:16 Greatgib: there is? can you be more specific? May 31 16:41:29 Greatgib, suppose I cannot get on the network easily and that I just want to have an appliance in my house ready to use May 31 16:41:42 berndhs, not really the point May 31 16:42:15 but perhaps would be fun May 31 16:42:17 lcuk: you could clone one of a repo something like: repo.meego.com/..../release/...netbook/../1.2/packages May 31 16:42:31 Greatgib, I am a developer May 31 16:42:31 there is not so much packages May 31 16:42:33 not a console wizard May 31 16:42:35 what is the point ? OBS/osc ? May 31 16:42:43 I spent 10 years with visual basic and not a console in sight May 31 16:43:12 I know about kickstart files May 31 16:43:16 Greatgib: maybe "zypper install -t pattern development-tools" ? May 31 16:43:19 zypper install -t pattern development-tools May 31 16:43:20 yes May 31 16:43:24 and that they can have packages listed and preinstalled when used to make an image May 31 16:43:30 so using your logic Greatgib May 31 16:43:53 a generic meego netbook kickstart file could be modified to add all the sdk and OBS faff stuff May 31 16:43:53 lcuk: Ah no, i was not saying if you want to create your own image May 31 16:44:00 ah this leads me to a question, can I make my own zypper patterns May 31 16:44:10 so that developer with spare netbook lying around can just install meego May 31 16:44:14 and use it to make more meego May 31 16:44:42 meego + meego = MeeGo˛ May 31 16:44:45 ;) May 31 16:45:13 berndhs, yes May 31 16:45:29 a pattern is just a group of like named packages I believe? May 31 16:45:40 actually it would be 2Meego May 31 16:45:51 newbie007, historically I am bad at math May 31 16:46:00 and MeeGo˛ looks cooler :P May 31 16:46:23 MeeGo˛TheCinema May 31 16:46:27 MeeGo˛Lunch May 31 16:46:30 MeeGo˛ThePark May 31 16:46:34 oooh May 31 16:46:54 lcuk: http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation_For_Beginners May 31 16:47:04 MeeGo the Lunch Box! May 31 16:47:08 MeeGo the Toilet Paper! May 31 16:47:10 MeeGo²rocks ;) May 31 16:47:14 MeeGo the FLAMETHROWER! May 31 16:47:27 moychendising! May 31 16:47:49 hey it works for Superman May 31 16:48:29 Greatgib: FYI, it's actually: "zypper install -t pattern meego-development-tools" May 31 16:48:29 * TSCHAKeee wants a Meegon plushie May 31 16:49:15 * CosmoHill makes a note to install MeeGo at some point May 31 16:49:42 delac: true :) too complicated to remember :p May 31 16:50:18 Greatgib, did you miss the part where I as a regular joe bloggs app developer does not really understand the command line/console ancient runes May 31 16:50:24 thanks for the link though :D May 31 16:51:57 lcuk: There will be no fun if it was too easy and without command line invocation :) May 31 16:52:24 Greatgib, this is the issue May 31 16:52:43 the divide between qt-creator simplicity in a way having click Play to run app May 31 16:52:43 command line is a lot quicker May 31 16:52:56 and being able to get that cool little app running on meego device itself May 31 16:53:11 can't you write a little bash script and run it from qt-creator ? May 31 16:53:54 qtcreator already has a button to click to run the app on the device May 31 16:54:05 historically: windows developer. open visual studio, make a few forms, generate binaries put msi file on website and let people have it on their windows machine May 31 16:54:14 akk, no, it has a plugin May 31 16:54:24 and targets and stuff May 31 16:54:37 but the amount of difference between my qt creator and yours is large May 31 16:55:00 there was a huge fuck-up, in making so many SDKs May 31 16:55:03 example: I have the Nokia Qt SDK, which I got when they said there was a new one May 31 16:55:03 apple has one SDK May 31 16:55:10 I see app running in symbian/maemo simulator May 31 16:55:11 Android has one SDK May 31 16:55:12 and your soul May 31 16:55:24 it is a nice app too May 31 16:55:41 and I want to try it on meego n900-de or on meego netbook or tablet builds May 31 16:55:51 and this isn't a "just shut up and code it problem" May 31 16:56:00 this is a top management clusterfuck problem May 31 16:56:16 and until that is solved, this discussion is meaningless. May 31 16:56:59 TSCHAKeee, really management problem? which companies management ? May 31 16:57:04 why is zypper incapable of downloading anything? It jusr hangs on "retreaving". Connections are OK, so it's not that. And the "Manage Apps" App does install stuff. May 31 16:57:24 lcuk: precisely. but really this has to do with the fact that the Linux Foundation is completely neutered in this respect. May 31 16:57:41 an umbrella needs to take charge, and present a unified face. May 31 16:58:17 ok, so to ease this, how can we make a MeeGo SDK appliance image May 31 16:58:26 something that is uable at conferences and training sessions May 31 16:58:32 with known configuration and setup May 31 16:58:45 ah, maybe it was the repo. works now... May 31 16:58:53 or just zypper slowness May 31 16:59:23 might be. it just hang again... May 31 17:00:09 there is a bug for it, hold on May 31 17:00:31 bug 14219 May 31 17:00:33 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14219 maj, Low, 1.1.90.4, qiang.z.zhang, ASSI, Zypper slowness before each operation May 31 17:05:00 TSCHAKeee, May 31 17:05:17 what would a developer need to make new components for your thingamibob May 31 17:05:23 well, it could be related, although I'm not sure. My problem just seems to be that the downloading of some of the packages doesn't begin. May 31 17:07:26 lcuk: besides the C++ compiler, we provide all the tools needed. They're part of every installed system. May 31 17:08:51 TSCHAKeee, do you see people using them and get feedback about it? May 31 17:09:39 the problem is, very few people have approached the system... the number of interested users is much smaller than say, someone who uses an android phone May 31 17:09:47 and even smaller than the number of android developers May 31 17:10:17 for every 200 users, we have 1 developer, and we have maybe 3000-4000 users. May 31 17:10:30 thiago_ARN: how many airports do you get to see the inside of yearly? :P May 31 17:10:56 so the developer base is small enough, that I work hand in hand with each one. May 31 17:11:01 Stskeeps: do you want me to count? May 31 17:11:06 * thiago_home has a spreadsheet May 31 17:11:07 hehe May 31 17:11:34 * w00t thinks "flying around the world" must be in thiago_home's job description May 31 17:14:22 Stskeeps: 13 airports this year May 31 17:14:38 TMP was first time this year yesterday and ARN first time this year today May 31 17:14:55 not bad May 31 17:15:51 7 more if I go back to last May 31 17:15:53 June May 31 17:16:46 2 more last May May 31 17:17:56 my latest "new" airport was Dublin May 31 17:18:08 * w00t is a lightweight at 6 airports so far this year May 31 17:18:13 :-p May 31 17:18:41 w00t: 6 distinct airports? May 31 17:18:49 yes May 31 17:19:09 thhis luggage however has been to 37534752873458238483248 different airports :P May 31 17:19:20 s/thhis/his/ May 31 17:19:20 lcuk meant: his luggage however has been to 37534752873458238483248 different airports :P May 31 17:19:25 lcuk: fortunately, no May 31 17:20:39 you might want to start declining the x-ray machine May 31 17:21:14 maybe you're going for the laser vision, but I myself won't go though it without a search warrent May 31 17:25:25 * lcuk wonders what intelremastered people will think of the calendar as "art" May 31 17:26:05 most artists leave signature on the bottom, mine is all over the place May 31 17:32:26 "it is just before half past six." May 31 17:32:34 "it is half past six." May 31 17:32:40 :) May 31 17:34:28 for completeness May 31 17:34:38 "it is just after half past six." :D May 31 17:34:39 see, you just can't go by the time, it keeps changing May 31 17:34:41 * lcuk goes for tea May 31 17:34:58 berndhs, it is this: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110530_191729.ciroclock_minutes_12h_time.scr.png May 31 17:35:29 jake has been reading it everytime, it is helping teach him the time and how to communicate it May 31 17:35:29 very nice May 31 17:36:18 with all this discussion about the SDK and the 2012 packaging May 31 17:36:41 I say MeeGo should make one time and stick with it May 31 17:38:10 Stskeeps: on the 2012 thing... are you more or less proposing something like a JIT compiler as a solution? May 31 17:38:21 berndhs, according to my poorly coded calendar I lost a day in March May 31 17:38:26 but gain 2 back in autum May 31 17:38:29 autumn May 31 17:38:51 ah probably a boring day anyway May 31 17:39:04 Samoa's losing that day in December... May 31 17:39:32 gabrbedd: so, c++ -> llvm il -> native code.. not necessarily JIT but you can do that too i suspect May 31 17:40:16 gabrbedd: read the PNaCl paper May 31 17:41:05 Stskeeps: ok, I grok it now. Whenver I see LLVM I think "Large Volume Manager" EINVALID May 31 17:41:27 doesnt this replace developer effort with load time CPU, basically ? or is it build time ? May 31 17:41:45 basically in tampere mikko terho from nokia said about compliance "who cares about compliance, i just want to run qml".. which is very true May 31 17:41:54 if it's build time for packaging, that's ok, if its load time or run time, that's detrimental May 31 17:42:06 it does change the landscape quite a fair bit May 31 17:42:49 Stskeeps: ACK on QML-only deploys. But I think your proposal is worth considering. May 31 17:43:07 we're 2/3rd there, 3rd one is that the qt quick extensions aren't portable May 31 17:43:09 ie, native code May 31 17:43:18 Right. May 31 17:43:39 Stskeeps: the Qt components aren't even portable across verticals May 31 17:43:55 so 2/3 it kinda optimistic at the moment May 31 17:43:58 jeez. mic2 keeps crashing my laptop. What's up with that? May 31 17:44:05 gabrbedd: stop using btrfs May 31 17:44:28 berndhs: right, but at the moment you still need to make two apps for meego arm and for meego x86 May 31 17:44:45 Stskeeps: oh my gosh. are you serious? May 31 17:44:57 gabrbedd: i'm very serious, that was the main cause of my mic2 problems May 31 17:44:57 no you just need to build them, that's relatively easy May 31 17:45:11 for the verticals you need to write new code May 31 17:45:15 * gabrbedd sighs again May 31 17:45:28 gabrbedd: uname -a May 31 17:45:49 Stskeeps: The host machine isn't using BTRFS, but the target image is. May 31 17:45:57 gabrbedd: yeah, i know May 31 17:46:09 gabrbedd: we had really nasty lockups on our builders at times May 31 17:46:24 not to mention the fun bugs on device May 31 17:46:28 so I think it is optimistic to say 2012 the limiting factor will be building ARM vs x86 or 32bit vs 64bit May 31 17:46:33 Stskeeps: Did I tell you about my BTRFS kernel oops during MeeGoConf... in the middle of a demo on Monday. May 31 17:46:39 ? May 31 17:46:59 gabrbedd: no, but i would probably have gone "hah-ha" if i had seen it May 31 17:47:00 :P May 31 17:47:26 gabrbedd: generally btrfs is well behaving on modern kernels like .37 but below.. May 31 17:47:47 C'mon. I was toting the party line: "btrfs is the future" May 31 17:48:12 gabrbedd: it is the future. Next month :) May 31 17:48:35 gabrbedd: yeah, i stopped believing that when without telling anyone, non-installer images of meego was suddenly turned away from btrfs May 31 17:48:38 :P May 31 17:48:41 Well, looks like I wasn't using btrfs in my mic2 build. May 31 17:48:56 so that's probably not it. May 31 17:49:00 alright May 31 17:49:03 Stskeeps: argh... I didn't know that. May 31 17:50:35 Hmmm... but my log file says "Loading btrfs..." May 31 18:02:01 auke: \o/ also works, i was really surprised to see the concept extended :) will make life a -lot- easier May 31 18:11:21 * npm has meego-lem ized his tablet and written first meego ux components test app May 31 18:11:32 Stskeeps: hmm? the debug stuff? May 31 18:11:42 auke: yeah May 31 18:12:00 you know, I spent like a week trying to get `debuginfo-install` working on zypper May 31 18:12:05 lol May 31 18:12:07 couldn't last for more than a few hours of development w/o it... (missing tools: mercurial, waf, etc) May 31 18:16:19 Stskeeps, PNG guy would certainly ask this: What is PNaCl ? May 31 18:16:49 lcuk: "RTFM"? May 31 18:16:51 ;) May 31 18:17:06 you mentioned it here in IRC May 31 18:17:12 there is no FM :P May 31 18:18:12 by the way, you say that you have to make 2 apps for meego at the moment May 31 18:18:25 that is normal OBS thing where it makes 5 or so variation packages? May 31 18:18:35 or did you mean having to code/create 2 distinct apps May 31 18:20:19 ahh I see the RTFM thing May 31 18:20:21 PNaCl: May 31 18:20:21 Portable Native Client Executables May 31 18:20:47 phosporus sodium chloride May 31 18:47:06 DawnFoster, what do you know about the IntelRemastered exhibition May 31 18:47:30 I know ShaneWalters from OneDotZero was at one doing some glow in the dark clay a few days ago May 31 18:47:38 and its coming to Manchester this week May 31 18:48:10 lcuk: honestly, nothing :) May 31 18:48:14 Intel is a big company May 31 18:48:29 fair enough May 31 18:48:37 I wonder what they will make of my digital painting :) May 31 18:49:31 * npm wonders what kernel/drivers/usb/misc/trancevibrator.ko is all about :-) May 31 18:50:57 npm: maybe thats the real reason for 3.0 :D May 31 18:51:20 so, if I install the SDK on Meego netbook and plan on only developing for the netbook, do I need targets? May 31 18:51:38 delac, everybody needs targets. May 31 18:51:47 without them we wouldn't get anything done. May 31 18:51:58 best answer is: try it May 31 18:52:01 ... May 31 18:54:11 so on the exopc's, is there a way to get the bluetooth working? May 31 18:56:31 npm: From what I have heard the hardware is working and supported, but there is a bug in MeeGo May 31 18:56:41 Hopefully it will be corrected with an upcoming release May 31 19:00:32 hi May 31 19:00:54 ive installed Meego SDK on Ubuntu May 31 19:01:15 do i need anything else for running my apps on Meego emulator ? May 31 19:01:34 npm: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17595 May 31 19:01:36 Bug 17595 maj, High, ---, kai.chai, NEED, [REG] No Bluetooth firmware on EXOPC May 31 19:08:38 fiferboy: thanks ... yeah seemedd like missing module or fw May 31 20:07:00 it's quiet here May 31 20:07:19 lbt_hel: btw, did you sent any post's about the vendor thing to some ML after SF? May 31 20:07:46 not yet... May 31 20:07:57 I started writing a wiki page May 31 20:08:01 lbt_hel: also when would you like to add more BOSS functionalities to DE project? Now that SF is behind we have time to break some things. May 31 20:08:11 would love to :) May 31 20:08:22 phaeron: ping May 31 20:08:29 wiki page out in the open or just drafting in some note app? May 31 20:08:52 I checked and I didn't hit save before getting in the taxi :( May 31 20:09:17 lbt_hel: pong May 31 20:09:24 oh hey May 31 20:09:27 I would like to see BOSS creating for example reports how the submits look like. Not acting based on those but to create reports at least so we could see how it would go. May 31 20:09:35 I'm thinking we can start doing BOSS stuff on thur/fri May 31 20:09:54 yes - it kinda does that already May 31 20:10:06 we can do anything after tomorrow May 31 20:10:09 but we don't have any checks yet May 31 20:10:39 I should say ... we've not tied any to the DE process May 31 20:12:44 didn't get that .. :) May 31 20:13:48 just meant that we don't actually call any/many of the pre-checks May 31 20:14:22 yeah the process needs love of course May 31 20:23:02 :) May 31 20:39:49 any experiances with meego emulated from VirtualBox or others? Which image would you suggest I grab for this purpose? May 31 20:46:24 I've used meego with qemu but not VirtualBox. Try the netbook ISO. May 31 20:50:36 I'll report my experiances. VirtualBox was my favorite, now that it's labeled Oracle I'm not so sure May 31 20:52:10 newbie007: vbox is tricky May 31 20:52:57 newbie007: the whole 3d thing never worked for me on the netbook images (after installing the vbox additions everything fell apart ui wise) May 31 20:53:15 newbie007, if you're using fedora or ubuntu, you can easily install qemu. If you google "meego PCBSD qemu" you'll find what I did before (not that it's complicated). May 31 20:53:31 hey Alison_Chaiken May 31 20:53:39 bye May 31 20:53:51 ohai, you're in the country :) May 31 20:54:11 I always avoid that additions thing May 31 20:55:13 newbie007: problem is that most of the UI relies on openGL May 31 20:58:51 I was about to treat this meego-netbook-ia32-1.2.0.img file as a bootable CD,, that's not right is it.... This is an image not an iso... May 31 20:59:08 might work May 31 20:59:20 I keep forgetting if vbox will take it May 31 20:59:34 newbie007: it's both. May 31 20:59:56 newbie007: it's an ISO image and a live USB stick image. May 31 21:00:16 and if not you can always use qemu-img to convert it to an vbox disk image :) May 31 21:00:29 newbie007: it uses a compressed filesystem... so it's probably not the best for actually doing work in a VM environment. May 31 21:00:36 it recognized it, I'm at the first screen. keyboard doesn't seem to work though (might be my own stupidity) May 31 21:00:51 click into the window ;) May 31 21:04:01 no it doesn't recogise it. It's a usb keyboard.. ever had this problem before... May 31 21:04:19 * newbie007 meant *never* had this problem before May 31 21:05:02 newbie007: mouse work? May 31 21:06:01 I cannot tell, the first screen doesn't have a mouse (I'm seeing 3 choices of Boot MeeGo, Installation Only, Boot from local drive) May 31 21:06:38 newbie007: That's the boot menu... so the mouse probably won't work. May 31 21:07:12 newbie007: You need some way to press [ENTER] (and possibly [UP]/[DOWN]) May 31 21:07:50 newbie007: This part is more or less between you and virtualbox. MeeGo's doing nothing fancy here. May 31 21:08:06 give me some credit guys, I mean I know my handle is newbie, but I can manage this screen, I'll try to dig up a ps/2 keyboard... May 31 21:08:53 I've never had this problem with other OS's fedora, debian, windows etc.. May 31 21:09:02 even mac May 31 21:09:39 I'll double check... May 31 21:11:15 newbie007: nobody's calling you silly. I'm just saying that the problem appears to be with virtualbox. May 31 21:11:28 newbie007: the fact that your keyboard is USB should make no difference. May 31 21:12:42 I wouldn't fault meego for this May 31 21:17:45 newbie007: maybe you released the control of the keyboard to the host system. The default control key is the right-ctrl. Try hitting that and see if the keyboard works for meego after that May 31 21:18:32 okay here's what happened. The keyboard works fine. Until I pressed enter, then it hangs. May 31 21:18:52 newbie007: ah, well that is odd May 31 21:19:24 vbox doesn't give any indication of hard drive activity, just freezes. I'll have to try qemu when I get home May 31 21:19:36 newbie007: does it happen every time you try to boot it? May 31 21:19:41 yes May 31 21:20:03 * newbie007 maybe I could runlevel 3 May 31 21:22:57 newbie007: what kind of processor is virtualbox emulating? May 31 21:23:21 newbie007: did you follow these instructions? http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_VirtualBox May 31 21:23:31 * lcuk just wiping his eyes at hearing that a qt list with 6 data items is slow May 31 21:23:57 lcuk: To be fair - 6 items is a lot. May 31 21:24:06 yeah May 31 21:24:14 it is more than I can count on one hand May 31 21:24:39 maybe it is 6 running virtual machines? May 31 21:25:03 or individual live running simulations of chemical simulations or something May 31 21:25:36 (this came from a discussion in #qt-labs about lists and grids in symbian being sluggish and that the new scenegraph stuff should cure many things May 31 21:25:56 * SpeedEvil sighs. May 31 21:26:21 I hate how otherwise sane devs seem to be content with 'yeah - it's slow' May 31 21:26:27 SpeedEvil, at the time I was panning around the graffiti wall with 8000 sketches on it May 31 21:26:45 When doing it with a 486/25 laptop 15 years ago was quite snappy. May 31 21:26:54 on historically described as underpowered and slow ideapad May 31 21:27:13 SpeedEvil, heh May 31 21:27:15 regressions May 31 21:27:17 Was this at the conference? May 31 21:27:21 cygnus editor on the amiga May 31 21:27:29 was written using custom blit routines May 31 21:27:40 and could scroll to line of code oh so smoothly May 31 21:27:57 no, this is in #qt-labs now May 31 21:28:05 Ah. May 31 21:31:32 * TSCHAKeee remembers Cygnus Editor May 31 21:31:43 that was my preferred editor for Devpac 2 and SAS/C May 31 21:32:03 I adored many of its features May 31 21:32:11 the macro mode was powerful May 31 21:32:16 rather sad that my accelerated Amiga 3000 May 31 21:32:20 feels much faster May 31 21:32:24 and it worked exactly as required May 31 21:32:24 than most machines today. May 31 21:32:30 yes, many regressions May 31 21:32:36 that seriously pisses me off. May 31 21:32:42 people accepting not instant saddens May 31 21:32:58 AROS is insanely fast May 31 21:33:07 like, WHOA fast May 31 21:33:15 :) AREXX was nice too May 31 21:33:33 yes, a system wide scripting language long before AppleScript May 31 21:33:34 was first time seeing interop May 31 21:33:37 ;) May 31 21:33:47 python comes close for linux May 31 21:33:51 with dbus bindings etc May 31 21:33:57 but they are not as elegent May 31 21:34:10 AREXX came from REXX, which IBM hooked all over AIX and OS/2 May 31 21:34:33 yeah i recall reading about it May 31 21:34:45 was fascinating to play on May 31 21:34:48 I think there was also an implementation for OS/400 as well May 31 21:35:09 would amiga os work for today? May 31 21:35:16 I now there is updated version somewhere May 31 21:35:45 * gabrbedd still has OS/2 Warp 4 install disks... somewhere... May 31 21:35:47 lcuk: AROS. May 31 21:36:04 actually, nm TSCHAKeee taking these nice thoughts and heading into code editor myself May 31 21:36:06 don't even bother with AmigaOS 4.1 or morphOS May 31 21:36:07 \o cya in a bit May 31 21:36:23 they holed themselves off with PowerPC May 31 21:36:29 and I will never forgive them for that. May 31 21:37:29 by the way: it is just before twenty five to eleven. http://liqbase.net/liq.20110531_223403.ciroclock_minutes_12h_time.scr.png May 31 21:37:46 lcuk: lol... May 31 21:38:01 * lcuk ponders an internet service for this :) May 31 21:38:07 not for long May 31 21:38:43 a little past half past 10 May 31 21:39:16 it is broad daylight May 31 21:39:37 gabrbedd, :) May 31 21:39:49 I will set liqbase to automatically upload new photo every minute :) May 31 21:41:17 lcuk: When setting an alarm... you could do set the time as "When the big little hand points to 6 and the big hand points to 4." May 31 21:43:12 have to be careful though, strictly speaking that never happens May 31 21:43:33 Sure it does. May 31 21:43:46 If the user does that, it's clear that they want to redefine teh number of hours in a day. May 31 21:44:05 not on a normal clock May 31 21:44:19 its clear what they mean, sure May 31 21:44:32 "When the little hand points somewhere around 6-ish and the big hand points to 4." May 31 21:45:27 and when you're done arguing with the clock about it, its too late :) May 31 21:46:25 gabrbedd, :D May 31 21:46:33 no, jacob is learning to read the time out May 31 21:46:39 and to communicate it back :) May 31 21:47:32 it has a mix of simple and more tricky words and easy to recall May 31 21:47:57 I like how the germans do it. May 31 21:48:24 how is that? May 31 21:48:31 they say something like "5 til a quarter til 3" May 31 21:48:51 "5 til a quarter past 2" May 31 21:51:51 Troubleshooting mic is the pits. May 31 21:52:25 * gabrbedd subscribes to meego-distribution-tools ML May 31 22:19:19 sup May 31 22:19:39 wow, so many nicks, just like a mainstream distro May 31 22:20:00 can meego be installed on the Asus Transformer? May 31 22:22:53 cordiceps: doubt it. uses nvidia tegra2 processor. May 31 22:23:46 cordiceps: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/TEGRA2 May 31 22:24:31 cordiceps: if you're serious about it, contact Marin Brook (vgrade) May 31 22:24:40 s/Marin/Martin/ May 31 22:24:41 gabrbedd meant: cordiceps: if you're serious about it, contact Martin Brook (vgrade) May 31 22:25:47 but it's a tablet May 31 22:29:25 that's the only acceptable tablet out there I can think of. May 31 22:30:50 hello, I'm trying to get meego working on a vbox emulator. I got an error message "Unable to boot please use a kernel appropriate for your CPU" This kernel requires the following features not present on the CPU: pae. May 31 22:30:52 also runs android which is linux basically. May 31 22:32:19 found a setting in my vm, please disregard May 31 22:34:07 MeeGoBot: supported processors? May 31 22:34:09 gabrbedd: Was it not... er, someone, who said: Supported Processors are http://wiki.meego.com/Supported_Processors May 31 22:34:13 cordiceps: ^^^ May 31 22:34:21 * CosmoHill gives gabrbedd a cookie May 31 22:34:56 * gabrbedd dips cookie in milk May 31 22:36:19 wow, no amd. Why is the support so limited? Qt is ported to way more arches os is linux kernel. May 31 22:36:22 I don't get it. May 31 22:36:51 cordiceps: if you have an AMD computer and get MeeGo 1.2 working on it let me know May 31 22:37:34 cordiceps: it's not impossible. It's just not supported because nobody is allocating the engineering and IT resources to support it. May 31 22:37:48 cordiceps: If someone wants to do it, they're more than welcome. May 31 22:38:00 see the Non-SSSE3 wiki page May 31 22:38:53 that different is from intels? I thought intels/amd where clones just re-arranged uderlying engineering but provide same results. May 31 22:39:38 cordiceps: intel introduced SSSE3 instructions... AMD said "we don't think we should have to support that." May 31 22:40:07 * cordiceps googles SSSE3 to find out what's so special about it. May 31 22:40:28 gabrbedd: the new AMD processors suppport SSSE3 May 31 22:41:04 cordicepts: the new instructions give an advantage with streaming media. May 31 22:41:17 you know, all my non-intel processors are also non-x86 May 31 22:41:24 AMD joined meego some months ago, ask them what they have been doing May 31 22:43:59 that's exactly what I thougt it's only for multimedia. How's the rest of the system hard coded to it? May 31 22:45:12 wouldn't it be technically possible to exclude the parts that depend on SSSE3 and compile the rest? May 31 22:45:27 Some things are optimised for various processors - for example - faster hashing? May 31 22:45:37 then use mplayer or other stuff not hard-coded with SSSE3. May 31 22:45:57 cordiceps: the parts that depend on SSSE3 are core parts May 31 22:46:06 :( May 31 22:46:27 it is possible to boot meego into run level 3 on a pentium 4 (non HT) but some things then still don't work like zypper May 31 22:46:40 cordiceps: you can recompile everything of course, set compiler flags appropriately May 31 22:48:31 I'm not sure what my processor is.. it's a vm,, my physical machine is a dual core xeon May 31 22:48:44 cordiceps: possible, yes. But it's not going to happen. May 31 22:49:03 zypper needs SSE3? May 31 22:50:17 SSSE3 May 31 22:50:18 yes May 31 22:50:33 guys, the SSSE3 has been argued til we're blue in the face. May 31 22:50:42 search the ML archives and the IRC archives. May 31 22:51:15 lcuk: you there? May 31 22:51:22 this is an odd decision really, the more arches supported the more exposure, more ppl using/testing/improving. Is just crazy to blacklist AMD as a whole. May 31 22:51:37 * cordiceps is slightly offended May 31 22:51:43 cordiceps: AMD is part of the project, ask them May 31 22:51:49 cordiceps: The point of MeeGo is to ship devices. May 31 22:52:04 TSCHAKeee, possibly May 31 22:52:05 Somethings just clicked into place for me about why we have the N900 DE project May 31 22:52:08 * javispedro loves how "meego doesn't boot in amd and no one seems to care enough to build an obs tree for amd meego" gets converted to "meego blacklists amd omg" again and again May 31 22:52:14 cordiceps: Intel is leveraging their SSSE3/Atom/Core2 technology. May 31 22:52:20 am just pondering how to wrie up the original liqbase editor to new framework May 31 22:52:32 And why Nokia have been open sourcing maemo components for us May 31 22:52:36 cordiceps: The goal is *not* to be a universal operating system like Ubuntu. May 31 22:53:29 If I had a blog I'd blog about it. May 31 22:53:29 cordiceps: lots of folks don't like this (understandably) -- but that's the current state. May 31 22:53:35 Oh well, time for bed. May 31 22:53:40 akai lpk25 sounds great with zynaddsubfx!! May 31 22:53:50 alterego: I can set up a blog for you for a low-low-price! :-) May 31 22:54:09 gabrbedd: I used to have one, I could do it myself :P May 31 22:54:24 lcuk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KefqZgDFIRU May 31 22:54:28 alterego: :-p May 31 22:54:31 can someone tell me the password for the image? I tried root/root and root/password May 31 22:54:40 I might ressurect my blog soon actually, May 31 22:54:52 lcuk: one of our programmers managed to fuse DCE and Qt together, doing a test device "an intelligent light switch" May 31 22:54:52 Now I've gone all out media with twitter :P May 31 22:55:36 then, as I understand there are no intel tablets currently in the market. May 31 22:55:48 wetab May 31 22:55:51 There are. May 31 22:55:53 Is Intel May 31 22:55:57 For small values of 'in the market' May 31 22:56:03 ExoPC, is Intel May 31 22:56:10 at least not as cool as Transformer/Xoom/iPad types. May 31 22:56:21 In fact Intel "tablets" predate the iPad, tbh .. May 31 22:56:51 Also - lenovo has some intel tablets too. May 31 22:56:52 As do other makers. May 31 22:57:15 And Apple just basically executed Nokias strategy, they just did it better. May 31 22:57:25 Because apple can make anything shiny May 31 22:57:43 exopc, no dual core and no DDR2, it's a gen behind. May 31 22:58:02 cordiceps: hate to tell ya bro, that's how it always is May 31 22:58:07 It has hyperthreading May 31 22:58:16 And the exo is last years model ... May 31 22:58:19 cordiceps: the stuff on the shelves is always a gen behind. May 31 22:58:22 Apple took the most secure OS FreeBSD and made it the least secure OS May 31 22:58:45 MeeGo 1.2 works on a Core 2 Quad and Intel GMA 4500 graphics :) May 31 22:58:47 that's the nature of the business... May 31 22:58:49 newbie007: they didn't turn it in to windowsp at least :P May 31 22:58:56 the fabs make a new chipset May 31 22:59:11 it takes time for the chipset to be sampled, prototyped in new gear May 31 22:59:27 then prepped for production (assuming it makes it that far) May 31 22:59:31 and shipped out... May 31 22:59:46 usually on average of 14 months. May 31 23:00:53 ok, any other tablet? May 31 23:01:56 cordiceps: do some research, jeez .. May 31 23:02:16 the lenovo ideapad (hey, am I original or what?) May 31 23:02:17 we won't see anything with Oak Trail for at least another 9 months. May 31 23:02:32 assuming anybody bites on it May 31 23:02:57 there are some device kits, but nothing public. May 31 23:03:02 Somebody should port meego to the new nook. :) May 31 23:03:19 unless i am wrong, intel engineers in the room, feel free to correct me May 31 23:04:45 I think someone cracked the 18K enigma to do with Nokias' announcement tomorrow May 31 23:05:00 18 Karat gold May 31 23:05:13 That new Ono device or whatever it is called. May 31 23:06:51 cyas May 31 23:06:59 night Cosmo May 31 23:07:02 last exam EVER tomorrow :D May 31 23:07:08 what is the root password in the image? I'm unable to boot (trying runlevel 3 to get it working) May 31 23:07:08 alterego: Windows Phone 7 device? May 31 23:07:13 alterego, link? May 31 23:07:20 newbie007, it's meego May 31 23:07:20 newbie007: meego/meego ? May 31 23:07:45 yes thank you May 31 23:08:07 got it up May 31 23:09:33 TSCHAKeee: symbian actually May 31 23:09:43 a symbian device?! May 31 23:09:48 whatever nokia will announce it's not going to change the world May 31 23:09:51 TSCHAKeee: it's one of Nokias silly expensive phones. May 31 23:10:05 * TSCHAKeee facepalms May 31 23:10:09 if it's a symbian device it's definitely not going to do anything ... yawnn! May 31 23:10:21 what the fuck are they doing? May 31 23:10:34 they want to be bought by Microsoft, it's clear May 31 23:11:00 their shares will keep going down more so that MS will have to scoop them up or someone else will May 31 23:11:18 and MSFT cannot afford that May 31 23:12:52 I think it's a C series but gold plated, May 31 23:12:53 luckily m$$ CAN'T buy meego, lol. May 31 23:12:58 It's for rich people :P May 31 23:13:39 since meego is protected by GPL barrier. May 31 23:14:04 alterego: you have to be kidding me. May 31 23:14:42 I'll get the link, hang on May 31 23:15:00 It looks like a C7 to me May 31 23:16:50 http://conversations.nokia.com/2011/05/25/gold-ringer-introducing-nokia-oro/ May 31 23:16:58 "premium phone" May 31 23:17:01 * alterego chuckles May 31 23:17:23 what's the 'premium' os running it? May 31 23:17:52 in case you wonder, oro means "gold". May 31 23:19:00 I can't believe the company is basically tanking as we talk and they're still releasing crap May 31 23:19:07 symbian anna May 31 23:19:38 ah well, it says it sells well between Russian mafia guys May 31 23:19:43 some ppl at the top are out of touch. May 31 23:19:43 RRP 800 EUR May 31 23:20:07 Their "premium" line used to be a lot more expensive. May 31 23:20:17 Shows Nokia are having a hard time ;) May 31 23:20:52 So, someone pointed out that 18K probably meant thatl May 31 23:21:04 But in the article it's spelt carat May 31 23:21:29 rofl, nokia embeds youtube vids. May 31 23:21:39 cordiceps: who doesn't? May 31 23:21:50 It's also better advertising .. May 31 23:22:10 That’s a real sapphire crystal in the home key, May 31 23:22:12 They get more plays and the possibility of being found through youtube. May 31 23:22:15 err - why not on the face? May 31 23:22:32 lol@the comments on the oro page May 31 23:22:37 --> "Gorgeous phone.. hideous OS.. have to run away before the Symbian fanboys come running after me " May 31 23:22:51 You can actually get diamond coated windows that are used for barcode scanners. May 31 23:23:03 I dunno, but apparently that saphire makes it 5 million times stronger May 31 23:23:28 A sapphire screen would actually have a point. May 31 23:24:21 I learned sapphire is crystalized aluminum May 31 23:24:41 yes May 31 23:24:55 In the same way that apples are crystallised manure. May 31 23:25:44 Heh May 31 23:25:58 I used to live on Sapphire street May 31 23:37:15 I am right though yeah? The Oro looks like a C7 with a dead bit of cow glued to it and painted gold? May 31 23:37:50 * alterego contemlates tweeting that May 31 23:38:04 lol May 31 23:38:05 I can see twitter becoming the death of me May 31 23:38:30 tomorrow's announcement is the 'Platinium' version. May 31 23:38:51 Pretty much everyone that'd receive my tweet is here though, so it seems pointless :P May 31 23:39:16 https://twitter.com/#!/w00teh/status/75596536125456386 <- alterego: that's one of my better tweets, recently ;) May 31 23:39:34 800 euros, and no bacon ? May 31 23:40:40 * cordiceps points tweeter to 127.0.0.1 in /etc/hosts May 31 23:41:32 party pooper :) May 31 23:42:07 w00t: I saw that earlier, made me laugh :) May 31 23:42:41 Eek, my posts are a bit Nokia negative .. May 31 23:42:54 I was slating their graphic designers earlier May 31 23:43:20 I keep a fairly balanced view, I think May 31 23:43:44 I think my points are valid opinions May 31 23:44:04 I said that anna icons and general look & feel didn't make me tingle May 31 23:44:25 And I just compared the Oro to the C7, I think they're justified remarks :) May 31 23:52:25 Meego on vbox. I'm getting " [drm:i915_init] *ERROR* drm/i915 can't work without intel_agp module![drm:i915_init] *ERROR* drm/i915 can't work without intel_agp module!" :( May 31 23:56:41 Eek, almost 1am May 31 23:56:50 newbie007: the problem is that even if you get it running it'll be slow as snal. May 31 23:56:51 Should definitely think about bed. May 31 23:57:13 newbie007: I got it running with qemu-kvm May 31 23:57:26 I tried a agp=off, and got past it, to an error about / not being mounted... May 31 23:57:56 I have 1 sata controller (this is a VM). Is Sata an issue? May 31 23:58:36 Satan? that might be an issue lol. May 31 23:59:03 newbie007: there's a page with instruction to get it running on vm May 31 23:59:19 cordiceps: my bad I'll check it out Jun 01 00:00:44 is unison packaged for meego? Jun 01 00:01:01 reed: the file system? Jun 01 00:01:39 reed: I do not think it is. Jun 01 00:03:17 newbie007: wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_Qemu Jun 01 00:56:27 newbie007: you could get this too --> http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/30/asus-brings-out-extra-skinny-eee-pc-x101-running-meego-hands-on/ Jun 01 01:11:49 altergo, your posts? What about mine? :P Jun 01 01:12:16 which posts now? Jun 01 01:26:22 when is that netbook gonna be in the market? Jun 01 01:33:24 sergiusens: which one? That one =====> Jun 01 01:34:22 or the x101? Jun 01 01:48:36 hello Jun 01 01:49:53 hi Jun 01 01:51:03 I was wondering if someone could help me with getting meego to work with my nokia booklet 3g Jun 01 01:54:47 anab1s: what problem are you having with it? Jun 01 01:55:56 The nokia booklet looked nice. Jun 01 01:58:45 I've found some instructions from a user called "vgrade", the problem is: there are several versions of the instruction, involving several different "kickstart" files, I'd just like clarification of the latest instructions. Jun 01 02:00:00 anab1s: unless you're trying to do something very specific... you should be able to use the Netbook 1.2 image from the front page (http://meego.com) and follow those instructions. Jun 01 02:01:58 the booklet 3g uses the gma500 chipset which is not officially supported by meego, however, there are instructions for getting it to work. Jun 01 02:09:40 anab1s: I'm sure you've already tried the official images in live mode... and they didn't work. Right? Jun 01 02:09:52 yes Jun 01 02:10:26 I don't think that the netbook UX image has emgd built in. Jun 01 02:10:31 anab1s: do you have lots of time to tackle this? Jun 01 02:10:38 yes Jun 01 02:11:27 anab1s: use the emgd-netbook-3.ks Jun 01 02:11:40 anab1s: which is an input file that you'll have to give to mic2 Jun 01 02:11:57 anab1s: there's docs on the wiki about getting started with mic2. Jun 01 02:12:07 anab1s: I won't have time to walk you through that. Jun 01 02:12:37 Start with a stock .ks file (i.e. the official 1.2 release) while you learn mic2. Don't start with vgrade's. Jun 01 02:13:12 anab1s: mic2 can be a bear when things don't work right. E.g. I've been fighting mic2 all day long. Jun 01 02:13:38 where will I find the stock .ks file? Jun 01 02:14:45 anab1s: in the same folder as the .img file Jun 01 02:15:16 ok Jun 01 02:18:24 I've got it, I'm looking at it now. Jun 01 02:19:41 anab1s: after you get (and understand) your toolchain... I'm sure there's things that you'll have to fix in his .ks file. Jun 01 02:19:53 anab1s: But that should keep you occupied until he wakes up. :-) Jun 01 02:20:40 thanks. Jun 01 02:49:15 im installing meego on my exopc YAY Jun 01 02:56:09 anyone hre using meego on exopc? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 01 02:59:56 2011