**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 05 02:59:56 2011 Jun 05 03:09:25 mikeleib: I can't actually test the switching version of meego-qml-launcher, because any sort of software rendering on my exopc seems to stop any and all X updates to the screen - permanently - until I kill X and force it to relaunch, so that's going to make life difficult Jun 05 03:09:48 mikeleib: I do have a few patches that will help things I think, I'll open a merge request to meego-qml-launcher Jun 05 03:10:44 finds all answers: http://www.wetab-community.com/index.php?/topic/12074-hdmi-ausgang/ http://www.phlerion.com/blog/exopc/exopc-ubuntu/ http://exocommunity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=2363 http://faceted.wordpress.com/tag/exopc/ http://shallowsky.com/blog/linux/install/natty-on-exopc.html Jun 05 03:35:12 mikeleib: heh.. I think I might have fixed it Jun 05 03:38:24 mikeleib: it's really hard to tell if this is properly fixed, since I have to kill uxlaunch whenever I come out of software rendering right now.. but before X was frozen on a white screen, and now it's frozen on content, which seems like a large step forward Jun 05 03:51:23 mikeleib: filed as https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-ux/meego-qml-launcher/merge_requests/8 Jun 05 03:51:50 and, gitorious is managing to show the completely wrong commits that had nothing to do with me. Jun 05 03:51:52 fantastic Jun 05 04:29:52 npm, VKB doesn't launch with Gtk applications in tablet-ux because of the inputmehtodbridges package, the fix didn't make it there for 1.2 , it should fixed with latest version of the package Jun 05 05:01:10 http://www.oqo.com/products/model2+/specifications.html Jun 05 05:01:18 put meego on that ;) Jun 05 05:03:15 I need help installing meego to my n900 Jun 05 05:04:36 I followed every step but dont know what to put for kernal? Jun 05 05:05:10 this is web site I am on http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/EMMC Jun 05 05:05:45 woodyjlw: i would recommend you try the external microsd method and uboot Jun 05 05:06:14 I want to fully flash to meego Jun 05 05:07:24 woodyjlw: have you tried it on microsd first? Jun 05 05:07:33 i would recommend you do that before flashing fully :) Jun 05 05:07:56 dont have the right micro sd to install too Jun 05 05:08:21 you should do that before potentially wrecking your n900 :) Jun 05 05:09:11 you cant flash back to maemo 5 ? Jun 05 05:10:10 it's not easy, so i'd recommend you try the microsd way first :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun 05 05:12:12 2011 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 05 05:18:14 2011 Jun 05 05:21:06 yeah i have been on youtube watching meego videos for weeks and now the released 1.2 stable for n900 and I really like how the meego looks on the videos and all the things I have ready I am sure I will like it. I do understand the risk of bricking a phone. but I have been needing to flash the phone anyways back to factory mode since I got phone used and want to switch to meego. thanks for the concern. it has taken me weeks to make m Jun 05 05:21:06 y mind up to do this Jun 05 05:21:38 woodyjlw: 'vmlinuz' are the kernel images Jun 05 05:22:23 thanks :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun 05 05:23:03 2011 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 05 05:24:14 2011 Jun 05 06:07:15 araujo: I installed 'zypper in meegotouch-inputmethodbridges' and rebooted. still same behavior for gtk apps Jun 05 06:13:33 npm, which version?.... Jun 05 07:06:15 morning Jun 05 07:13:09 araujo: meegotouch-inputmethodbridges-0.2.2-2.14.i586 Jun 05 07:13:27 iekku: good evening :- Jun 05 07:13:29 ) Jun 05 07:13:48 npm, you need 0.2.3 Jun 05 07:13:59 where from? Jun 05 07:14:28 http://download.meego.com/live/Trunk:/Testing/standard/ Jun 05 07:26:45 npm, :) Jun 05 07:32:26 hey guys anybody ever mounted a ubifs under meego? I cannot find any "ubiattach", which is usually used before mounting.. Jun 05 07:38:49 tcm458tu45u: i'm not confident we have that in n900 images Jun 05 07:39:20 any way to somehow add it? like compiling on the device or something? Jun 05 07:39:48 mtd-utils is the package, isn't it? Jun 05 07:40:17 should be Jun 05 07:41:28 wow, they really cleaned up 1.2 tablet Jun 05 07:42:42 lol found a source: http://mtd-utils.sourcearchive.com/documentation/20110107/ubiattach_8c_source.html Jun 05 07:43:11 tcm458tu45u: mtd-utils should be in meego repositories as mtd-utils Jun 05 07:43:13 rpm Jun 05 07:43:22 thx Jun 05 07:46:12 hmm now I need to get internet working on meego - somehow... Jun 05 07:46:39 re Jun 05 07:47:00 usb networking is always good Jun 05 07:47:12 saved my life several times Jun 05 07:47:25 both by saving the device and sometimes by the device saving my workstation Jun 05 07:47:31 lol Jun 05 07:47:35 Stskeeps: cleaned up in what sense? Jun 05 07:47:52 at the moment it saves me from typing everything on the small keyboard ^^ Jun 05 07:49:10 w00t: as in it doesnt act fucked up with appgrid and looks more proper :P Jun 05 07:49:17 hehe Jun 05 07:49:34 araujo: worksforme :-) -- zypper in http://download.meego.com/live/Trunk:/Testing/standard/i586/meegotouch-inputmethodbridges-0.2.3-1.4.i586.rpm Jun 05 07:49:49 Stskeeps: amazing what can happen with some decent development effort put into a ux, isn't it Jun 05 07:49:50 thanks Jun 05 07:49:55 w00t: yess.. Jun 05 07:50:46 now able to properly use http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem-Firefox4 on exopc Jun 05 07:51:12 and also google chrome Jun 05 07:55:35 npm, awesome :) Jun 05 07:56:59 so what do i upgrade to get rid of the weird behavior where sometimes the menu dropdown contents get blown up to the size of the full screen Jun 05 07:57:27 happens on chrome, seemingly w/ certain gl contexts (?), but not firefox Jun 05 07:59:49 hmm what is "liblzo2.so.2" ? the mtd-utils depend on it but I can not find it.. Jun 05 08:00:10 xz package maybe Jun 05 08:00:38 pidgin works too Jun 05 08:00:49 xz would include xz, not lzo :) Jun 05 08:01:26 oops sorry my fault.. Jun 05 08:01:30 tho the kbd obscures my typing Jun 05 08:01:41 misspelled lzo xD Jun 05 08:01:42 thiago_home: ah, you're right Jun 05 08:01:57 xz is the new name of LZMA, not LZO Jun 05 08:02:17 the LZ means the same thing though (Lempel-Ziv) Jun 05 08:02:37 found it.. it's in "http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/core/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/lzo-2.03-7.8.armv7l.rpm" Jun 05 08:03:01 thiago_home: you probably need 1.2 and armv7hl Jun 05 08:03:37 for n900? Jun 05 08:03:42 yeah Jun 05 08:04:07 zip and gzip also use (by default) algorithms based on Lempel-Ziv Jun 05 08:05:07 I used this image: "meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.1-mmcblk0p.raw" so I think 1.1 should be right !? Jun 05 08:06:01 afaik there is no meego 1.2 image for the n900, is it? Jun 05 08:06:58 tcm458tu45u: sure there is, wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 Jun 05 08:07:17 tcm458tu45u: but for your purpose just grab the armv7l right now Jun 05 08:07:37 yeah think so too.. Jun 05 08:07:42 stskeeps: hey, does meego do over the air updates? :) Jun 05 08:07:51 i want to update my exopc.. :) Jun 05 08:08:03 timeless: we don't actively test it Jun 05 08:08:10 is there a ui for it? Jun 05 08:08:16 console's a ui Jun 05 08:08:17 ;) Jun 05 08:08:20 (lacking a keyboard..) Jun 05 08:08:30 sorry, is there a ui that works ootb? Jun 05 08:08:47 console requires third party hardware accessories./ Jun 05 08:08:49 perl(Config::IniFiles) missing ^^ http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/core/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/perl-5.12.1-61.38.armv7l.rpm , right? Jun 05 08:08:49 no Jun 05 08:09:07 tcm458tu45u: 1.1 is obsolete.. Jun 05 08:09:09 tcm458tu45u: dunno - if you have zypper you can probably just zypper in mtd-utils Jun 05 08:09:33 timeless: I know Jun 05 08:10:33 over the air update == edit repos w/ http://download.meego.com/live/MeeGo:/1.2: then do zypper dup --from 'MeeGo:1.2:non-oss (MeeGo_1.2)' --from 'MeeGo:1.2:oss (standard)'" Jun 05 08:10:56 timeless ^^^ Jun 05 08:11:15 npm: how do i do that on an exopc w/o a keyboard? :) Jun 05 08:11:26 ssh in ? Jun 05 08:12:30 install emacs and do "ssh -f -Y meego@meegotab emacs --funcall shell" Jun 05 08:12:32 hrm, meego/meego? Jun 05 08:12:38 right Jun 05 08:12:41 and root/meego Jun 05 08:12:49 and then change it to secure yourself Jun 05 08:12:55 which lends me to think of some awesome pranks for next meego conference Jun 05 08:12:55 :P Jun 05 08:13:05 heh Jun 05 08:13:21 "SKYNET ACTIVATING".. Jun 05 08:13:21 :P Jun 05 08:14:26 o.0 zypper taking a long time... Jun 05 08:15:13 prank: have "morbid anal fog" videos start playing back at 3AM from youtube Jun 05 08:17:36 woooooohoooooo I finally managed to mount the maemo nand in meego hopefully I can now fix my little problem ^^ Jun 05 08:18:15 oh my gosh ^^ thanks for your help ;) I'm tried to mount it for around 6 hours Jun 05 08:18:19 ll Jun 05 08:18:21 lol Jun 05 08:19:14 ok, where's this repo file i need to edit? :) Jun 05 08:19:16 that is a dumb misspelling: [root@localhost input]# ls Jun 05 08:19:18 evdev_drev.so evdev_drv.so.mousesupport joystick_drv.so Jun 05 08:20:30 timeless: /etc/zypp/repos.d/1.2-oss.repo /etc/zypp/repos.d/1.2-non-oss.repo Jun 05 08:21:16 then do zypper clean --all ; zypper refresh ; zypper dup --from 'MeeGo:1.2:non-oss (MeeGo_1.2)' --from 'MeeGo:1.2:oss (standard)' Jun 05 08:22:00 grr, Jun 05 08:22:03 this terminal is so broken Jun 05 08:27:12 not as broken as a flash player in a browser... Jun 05 08:27:21 lol Jun 05 08:28:40 welcome back Jun 05 08:28:43 grr Jun 05 08:28:53 is there a wiki page that will walk frustrated people through this? Jun 05 08:29:29 not yet. i was thinking about posting an email about my success in upgrading my tablet to something useable Jun 05 08:30:29 but I cheated: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem :-) Jun 05 08:31:14 i guess i shoud finish that page first Jun 05 08:31:21 s/should Jun 05 08:34:19 the next frontier is fitting proper speakers into a tablet... the entire surface of the display could be driven as a subwoofer (and do tactile feedback when you're not playing sound) Jun 05 08:38:07 * timeless decides to curse zypper repeatedly Jun 05 08:38:49 ok, after a zypper refresh and a slightly different command, it's now going to download 200mb of stuff Jun 05 08:41:31 i don't suppose this will actually *fix* anything? :) Jun 05 08:41:53 well rotation will start working for one Jun 05 08:42:04 define working Jun 05 08:42:19 you turn the screen and things turn Jun 05 08:42:49 including browser. .. multitouch in browser works etc. Jun 05 08:43:09 hrm Jun 05 08:43:17 i already have some rotation and some multitouch Jun 05 08:43:53 well maybe yours was more up-to date than mine Jun 05 08:43:56 i wasn't using the version that came w/ my exopc Jun 05 08:44:06 i used some image someone installed for me Jun 05 08:44:24 well i'm sure some things will be better, some worse (media playback stops working?) Jun 05 08:44:44 it looks better, imho Jun 05 08:46:08 i already have media playback not working well Jun 05 08:47:44 what i'd like is a vkb that actually works in xterm Jun 05 08:48:09 or a vkb that actually stretches properly... Jun 05 08:49:11 i'd also like volume control to work reasonably well Jun 05 08:49:22 i wouldn't cry if the settings ui wasn't stupid Jun 05 08:49:40 (some items have back buttons, some don't) Jun 05 08:51:52 after doing 'zypper in http://download.meego.com/live/Trunk:/Testing/standard/i586/meegotouch-inputmethodbridges-0.2.3-1.4.i586.rpm' you should be able to get gnome progs to work with vkb Jun 05 08:52:00 therefore install gnome-termimal from meego Jun 05 08:52:16 (i installed roxterm from fedora with http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem ) Jun 05 08:52:47 and roxterm works with the virtual keyboard on the tablet w/ inputmethodbridges installed Jun 05 08:53:55 of course, it ends up covering up your typing if you hit the bottom third of screen, so you have to hit return a bunch of times to see what you're typing Jun 05 08:55:42 or do clear(1) Jun 05 09:40:37 what the **** why is the 1.2 image for n900 3.6GB? 1.1 was 1.8GB... Jun 05 09:41:27 tcm458tu45u: because we needed more roaming space for data Jun 05 09:42:26 and debug symbols and such Jun 05 09:42:54 hmm Jun 05 09:43:15 good thing I bought the 8GB microsd and not the 2GB.. Jun 05 09:43:24 we do say 4gb somewhere ;) Jun 05 09:43:33 ;) Jun 05 09:44:07 now you say 4gb ;) lol when I bought the other one for an earlier release it was 2GB minimum.. Jun 05 09:44:55 I'm looking forward to testing the new version though... 1.1 was kind of laggy on my n900 and it got kind of warm over the time.. Jun 05 09:45:21 DE SF2011 should be like a miracle to you then Jun 05 09:45:22 :P Jun 05 09:45:55 lol nice ^^ Jun 05 09:46:15 dd takes for ever with 3.6gig... Jun 05 09:47:44 hmm why does the raw image name says "1.1.99.7." ? Jun 05 09:48:35 long story Jun 05 09:48:47 ok as long as it is the right one.. Jun 05 09:48:53 everything is alright Jun 05 09:58:01 hmm... how long is it supposed to take to copy the image to the microsd card? it's class 6 I think... and now it takes around 20minutes.. Jun 05 09:58:42 writing is always slow Jun 05 09:59:05 hmm o Jun 05 09:59:08 k Jun 05 10:00:07 about 12 minutes at 6 megabytes/s. Though, it's hard to find a system/method which doesn't mess up the access pattern into something microsd doesn't like Jun 05 10:00:36 lol Jun 05 10:01:34 At one time a certain popular linux distro mounted cards with -o sync by default. This degraded performance to about 150kbyte/s :-) Jun 05 10:01:55 looool Jun 05 10:02:08 hopefully it's not ubuntu 10.04 LTS xD Jun 05 10:02:23 other ways its gonna take some time... Jun 05 10:02:54 I get about 10 minutes write time on C4 cards Jun 05 10:03:04 hmm Jun 05 10:03:29 break up and start all over again? Jun 05 10:03:56 do you know the name of the /dev/ entry for your card? Jun 05 10:04:01 sudo dd bs=4096 if=mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-de-sanity-1.1.99.7.20110516.2.DE.2011-05-23.1-mmcblk0p.raw of=/dev/mmcblk0 Jun 05 10:04:23 you have a mmcblk0 on Ubuntu? Jun 05 10:04:33 I do Jun 05 10:04:44 It's the internal card reader Jun 05 10:04:45 yes... worked like this for the old image.. Jun 05 10:05:11 plus it is what fdisk gives me Jun 05 10:06:53 'iostat -x -k -d 10 mmcblk0' ,wait 10s (the first line output is worthless), tell me what it says under wkB/s, avgrq-sz, avgqu-sz, util Jun 05 10:07:13 iostat is in sysstat package if you dont have it Jun 05 10:07:44 getting it, right now.. Jun 05 10:08:35 Device: rrqm/s wrqm/s r/s w/s rkB/s wkB/s avgrq-sz avgqu-sz await svctm %util Jun 05 10:08:37 mmcblk0 0,00 0,00 0,00 0,00 0,00 0,00 0,00 192,00 0,00 0,00 100,00 Jun 05 10:08:43 everything is zero!? Jun 05 10:10:03 wtf :) Jun 05 10:10:28 it's not going anywhere then. Jun 05 10:10:35 true true.. Jun 05 10:10:39 Anything peculiar in dmesg? Jun 05 10:11:23 [10800.292408] [] ? clockevents_program_event+0x90/0x140 Jun 05 10:11:25 [10800.292411] [] blkdev_aio_write+0x3c/0x90 Jun 05 10:11:27 [10800.292415] [] do_sync_write+0xc4/0x100 Jun 05 10:11:29 [10800.292419] [] ? autoremove_wake_function+0x0/0x50 Jun 05 10:11:31 [10800.292424] [] ? security_file_permission+0x14/0x20 Jun 05 10:11:33 [10800.292427] [] ? rw_verify_area+0x64/0xe0 Jun 05 10:11:35 [10800.292430] [] vfs_write+0xa2/0x1a0 Jun 05 10:11:37 [10800.292433] [] ? do_sync_write+0x0/0x100 Jun 05 10:11:39 [10800.292436] [] sys_write+0x42/0x70 Jun 05 10:11:41 hint: don't flood Jun 05 10:11:41 [10800.292439] [] syscall_call+0x7/0xb Jun 05 10:11:44 use a pastebin Jun 05 10:11:48 sorry Jun 05 10:12:36 that looks like the end of a crash of somesort Jun 05 10:12:49 looks related to writing too Jun 05 10:15:16 could be something else Jun 05 10:15:27 http://pastebin.com/HthZij1j Jun 05 10:15:32 you need to look at what preceded that stack dump. It could be "task hung" or just a warning. Jun 05 10:15:43 unplugged and replugged the card Jun 05 10:16:18 * timeless kicks zypper Jun 05 10:16:26 so i mistakenly installed firefox 3.6 Jun 05 10:16:31 and now i can't install 4.0 Jun 05 10:16:40 and i can't figure out how to uninstall 3.6 Jun 05 10:18:21 http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1242888 Jun 05 10:18:40 Maybe you could trade computers with one of those trying to figure out how to do the reverse Jun 05 10:19:15 timeless, which syste mdid you install it onto? Jun 05 10:19:38 morning btw \o Jun 05 10:19:41 exopc w/ some ****d version of meego 1.2 + random repositories Jun 05 10:19:48 system did Jun 05 10:20:04 * timeless should replace it w/ wepad Jun 05 10:20:12 since that actually works Jun 05 10:20:17 so what is preventing uninstalling? Jun 05 10:20:26 looks like it isn't actually installed Jun 05 10:20:52 what prevents it from uninstalling is crappy rollback behavior and crappy output Jun 05 10:20:52 * ShadowJK would suspect "+ random repositories" is a bad idea Jun 05 10:21:06 Package 'firefox' is not installed. 'firefox' not found in package names. Trying capabilities. No provider of 'firefox' is installed. Resolving package dependencies... Jun 05 10:21:13 that is not human readable Jun 05 10:21:49 so what's w/ this stupid file system thing and why does it care? Jun 05 10:24:43 is this some key format that meego doesn't support? Jun 05 10:25:11 heh, what repository do you have that has a package for fedora core 12 (current is fedora core 15?) :) Jun 05 10:25:25 hell if i'd know Jun 05 10:25:34 it's not like i know what this system is doing :) Jun 05 10:25:36 "This package provides some directories required by packages which use Mozilla technologies such as NPAPI plugins or toolkit extensions." Jun 05 10:27:51 And before that it's talking about xulrunner for Fedora Core 14. Hopefully the "package integrity check failed" is because it actually downloaded a htmli-ized themed 404 page instead of an rpm Jun 05 10:28:00 http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1242897 Jun 05 10:28:41 i'm pretty sure the checks it's failing are "i don't have a pgp key and i don't want to give you a remotely useful error message" Jun 05 10:30:06 7.68mb/s for class 6 isn't bad.. Jun 05 10:30:44 raw sequential speed only matters for cameras and for that one time you write the image :P Jun 05 10:30:59 that's what I'm doing ;) Jun 05 10:31:33 ok, forcefully installing the pgp key for remi seems to have maybe fixed the last of these stupid errors Jun 05 10:32:26 I don't know dude, forcing stuff and ignoring deps is like giving the packahe managment license to do random bad things forever and ever Jun 05 10:33:26 tcm458tu45u, so your card didn't die during the second attempt? Jun 05 10:33:41 cool Jun 05 10:33:48 gnome-terminal crashes (core dump) on launch Jun 05 10:33:55 (firefox at least launches) Jun 05 10:34:40 ShadowJK: actually I've got no idea what it did, but a reboot was mandatory because of os updates anyway so I did a quick reboot.. Jun 05 10:34:45 and now it seems to work Jun 05 10:34:49 done Jun 05 10:34:57 just in this moment lol Jun 05 10:36:25 timeless, I think you'd need to choose one distro, instead of mixing binaries from several distros :P Jun 05 10:36:40 shadowjk: is there a distro that doesn't suck? Jun 05 10:36:58 no:) Jun 05 10:37:05 LFS! Jun 05 10:37:18 speedevil: i think i'll ask MS for install media Jun 05 10:37:24 there's a license key on the reverse side Jun 05 10:37:28 :) Jun 05 10:37:50 hey, i'm chatting w/ you guys using w7starter on my ideapad :) Jun 05 10:37:59 They have comittees that determine what would piss off existing users the most, implement it and then abandin the older working usable version, forcing upgrades to piss-me-off version Jun 05 10:38:00 i might as well use w7home-pro on my exopc :) Jun 05 10:38:31 excuse me, i don't own this exopc, it's on a multiyear loan :) Jun 05 10:39:03 Last time I tried to get install media they wanted 100 eur and for me to FAX a form to somewhere in Norway Jun 05 10:39:24 i've had mixed luck w/ install media Jun 05 10:39:37 one vendor merrily sent it for free from somewhere in NAM to finland Jun 05 10:39:40 iirc that was LG Jun 05 10:39:55 the next vendor was a PIA and I gave up and just bought w7 at a store in town Jun 05 10:40:05 the third instance i just went to the store and grabbed w7 Jun 05 10:40:27 (none of these were for my own computers, just random people in/visiting helsinki) Jun 05 10:41:30 i think just killed itself Jun 05 10:42:21 [ 4895.504257] meego-qml-launc[956]: segfault at fffffffb ip b48558eb sp bfad97c0 error 4 in libSettings.so[b482b000+53000][ 4895.504293] meego-qml-launc/956: potentially unexpected fatal signal 11. Jun 05 10:42:27 * ShadowJK should upgrade from Fedora Core 10 some day, but I'm afraid it'll be month long effort of fixing everything they've broken, and wrestling network-manager into not breaking networking every few minutes Jun 05 10:42:34 potentially unexpected sig 11... yeah... Jun 05 10:42:37 potentially ... Jun 05 10:43:11 wow Jun 05 10:43:19 email has an icon for Aol. Jun 05 10:43:46 did you install an email app from 1999? :) Jun 05 10:43:47 what color would you expect to be? Jun 05 10:43:53 yellow? Jun 05 10:44:06 that's aim Jun 05 10:44:09 try again? Jun 05 10:44:21 um.. barf coloured? Jun 05 10:44:30 no cheating! Jun 05 10:44:41 blue? Jun 05 10:44:43 * timeless suspects shadowjk asked meego Jun 05 10:44:48 blue! that's right Jun 05 10:45:06 is it red? Jun 05 10:45:16 http://www.google.com/images?q=aol will support blue Jun 05 10:45:23 because that would have been third guess Jun 05 10:45:23 no, it's hot pink, i think Jun 05 10:46:17 aLsO, iN wHaT rAnSoM lEtTeR cAsE wOuLd YoU eXpEcT tO bE wRiTtEn? Jun 05 10:46:30 Aol Jun 05 10:46:32 s/S/D/ Jun 05 10:46:32 timeless meant: aLsO, iN wHaT rAnDoM lEtTeR cAsE wOuLd YoU eXpEcT tO bE wRiTtEn? Jun 05 10:46:43 shadowjk: why? Jun 05 10:47:08 because that:s what the helpful auto-capitalisation suggests when pressing a o l Jun 05 10:47:20 lol Jun 05 10:47:32 I'm guessing you're seeing AoL and correct is AOL? Jun 05 10:47:39 ok, ask google and let me know what the correct answer is Jun 05 10:47:42 you're close Jun 05 10:47:43 but no Jun 05 10:47:51 'Aol.' Jun 05 10:48:04 please don't ask me what the heck is up w/ the dot Jun 05 10:48:10 but if you happen to know, i'm all ears! Jun 05 10:48:14 Army of Losers? Jun 05 10:48:36 doc: that'd be 'AoL.', obviously =b Jun 05 10:48:43 "AOL.com"? Jun 05 10:49:09 aol.com took me to: http://www.aol.ca/?r=www.aol.com Jun 05 10:49:17 which led me to believe i was in a dns trap :o Jun 05 10:49:55 but wow Jun 05 10:49:56 http://portal.aolcdn.com/p5/forms/398/9da04a5a-4fdf-4488-99ee-899427372804.jpg Jun 05 10:50:03 it seems that 'Aol.' is their new branding Jun 05 10:50:07 * timeless kicks aol Jun 05 10:50:37 that's funny, at the bottom there's a "Aol." logo and a "our brands" listing with "AOL Mail" Jun 05 10:51:28 timeless, ok, so next one, yahoo? Jun 05 10:51:43 shadowjk: are you peeking? Jun 05 10:51:57 there's either or a solid-white-icon or a 100-percent-transparent-icon Jun 05 10:51:59 not sure which Jun 05 10:52:01 :) Jun 05 10:52:11 * DocScrutinizer prefers postal to portal.aol Jun 05 10:52:12 * ShadowJK typed yahoo.com into browser but didn't look Jun 05 10:52:46 DocScrutinizer: eh? Jun 05 10:53:10 ShadowJK: well, unless yahoo really has a solid white or 100% transparent icon... Jun 05 10:53:15 i'm pretty sure meego is broken :) Jun 05 10:53:39 it's purple Jun 05 10:53:44 supposed to be Jun 05 10:54:01 I'm pretty sure yahoo better had a 100% transparent icon Jun 05 10:54:01 speedevil: so... Jun 05 10:54:13 for my next trick... i'm going to click 'Other' Jun 05 10:54:22 so at least *aomething* is transparent with yahoo Jun 05 10:54:31 that takes me to a page w/ and buttons Jun 05 10:54:31 s/*a/*s/ Jun 05 10:54:32 DocScrutinizer meant: so at least *something* is transparent with yahoo Jun 05 10:54:48 what would you expect to have happen when 'cancel' is clicked? Jun 05 10:55:06 lol Jun 05 10:55:28 timeless, window goes away and then it tries to check your email and crashes because youm have no accounts defined? Jun 05 10:55:39 (going by typical experieences here) Jun 05 10:55:44 lol Jun 05 10:55:48 not far off Jun 05 10:56:02

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You have made changes to your settings, so are you sure you want Jun 05 10:56:17 to cancel

Jun 05 10:56:20
Jun 05 10:56:31 Jun 05 10:56:36 Cancel, OK? Jun 05 10:56:49 ah almost Jun 05 10:57:04 Jun 05 10:57:16 and yes, they force wrapped or something between 'want' and 'to' Jun 05 10:57:21 Cancel, Discard would have been fun too Jun 05 10:57:32 so... question... Jun 05 10:57:35 what changes have i made? Jun 05 10:57:41 is clicking 'cancel' considered a change? Jun 05 10:57:52 Dear UI designers: Jun 05 10:58:20 would you *please* try clicking on each button you add to a UI *before* you fill in data? Jun 05 10:58:27 ... it helps prevent stupid UX like this Jun 05 10:58:34 ... wow Jun 05 10:58:41 double negatives in the UI, ouch Jun 05 10:58:53 leiner: which ones? Jun 05 10:59:06 personally what impressed me most about the text was the use of "so" Jun 05 10:59:28 "Discard changes", "Sure you want to cancel", yes/no Jun 05 10:59:51 shadowjk: well, technically it's consistent Jun 05 10:59:54 it's stupid Jun 05 10:59:55 the one you just posted... that's a pretty bad message... Jun 05 10:59:59 but i've seen *much* worse Jun 05 11:00:12 leinir: oh, you won't hear me praising it :) Jun 05 11:00:24 in this case, i shouldn't have gotten the dialog *at all* Jun 05 11:00:37 but yeah, ideally the text would be different if it existed Jun 05 11:00:43 generally such dialogs shouldn't exist at all Jun 05 11:00:52 the right thing to do is to treat an incomplete task as a "draft" Jun 05 11:00:55 and just let the user leave Jun 05 11:01:02 when the user comes back, give them their draft Jun 05 11:01:08 the worst thing is, if you complain about the "so", the entire message gets replaced by something incomprehensible Jun 05 11:01:12 or give them an undo option Jun 05 11:01:27 shadowjk: indeed Jun 05 11:01:36 the only solution here is to take the dialog out and shoot it Jun 05 11:01:46 ... there should not be any dialog for this Jun 05 11:02:05 cute Jun 05 11:02:12 so, i'm using a landscape Settings app Jun 05 11:02:19 i'm in "General" Jun 05 11:02:23 it has two rows Jun 05 11:02:41 "Time and Date" (they get points for capitalizing the D in Date -- Nokia gets this wrong) Jun 05 11:02:45 "Sound" Jun 05 11:02:55 the "Sound" line is actually: Jun 05 11:03:22 the "draft" thing's disadvantage is that people sometimes expect to get some amount of sensible sane values prefilled, and go through the discard/cancel to go back to sane defaults to start from Jun 05 11:03:23

Sound100%v

Jun 05 11:03:51 shadowjk: easily dealt w/ by having a reset button which toggles to undo in the dialog Jun 05 11:04:02 so i can just click ;'reset' at any time to get sane defaults Jun 05 11:04:02 yeah Jun 05 11:04:09 and if i accidentally click it, i just click 'undo' Jun 05 11:04:27 `anyway Jun 05 11:04:44 the 'v' toggles to a '^' Jun 05 11:04:52 the '%' and the '^' run into eachother Jun 05 11:05:16 why is there a v or a ^ in there Jun 05 11:05:33 no one thought it would be important to leave space after the % Jun 05 11:05:37 it's a disclosure widget Jun 05 11:05:57 ah Jun 05 11:06:09 * timeless should have stuck it into an but then it's harder to read the collision Jun 05 11:06:19 oh... Jun 05 11:06:26 Time and Date says i'm using a 24 hour clock Jun 05 11:06:36 the title area for the system shows '11:06am' Jun 05 11:06:43 which means that someone isn't paying attn Jun 05 11:07:10 grr Jun 05 11:07:15 "Show offline contacts" Jun 05 11:07:24 what would you expect to see as values for such an option? Jun 05 11:07:32 or Jun 05 11:07:40 "Notification on new message" Jun 05 11:08:38 as for offline contacts: Show, Show in grey, Hide ? Jun 05 11:09:17 shadowjk: "Offline contacts" + / would make sense, yes Jun 05 11:09:29 Notification: tick boxes: Led, Vibrate, Sound (choose sound) Jun 05 11:09:55 meego seems to like and Jun 05 11:09:56 action Jun 05 11:10:53 on/off things are only 100% unambigous for the guy who writes the if() in the code Jun 05 11:11:01 or then not even for him/her Jun 05 11:11:11 but probably "action" isn't gashead-user compatible Jun 05 11:12:00 having rows and rows of identical looking on/off knobs looks darn fancy and cool, though Jun 05 11:12:11 shadowjk: and is absolutely useless Jun 05 11:13:23 get a dropdown to select from a set of "macros" (implement them as scripts or binaries) that get called when "new message" Jun 05 11:13:43 power users add own macros as they like Jun 05 11:15:26 ooh, i'm running 1.2.0.90 (MeeGo) Jun 05 11:15:40 ah, no wonder nothing works Jun 05 11:17:12 ooh Jun 05 11:17:20 i got a welcome back program email from PSN Jun 05 11:17:34 i wonder if i can ask them to remove the bogus account someone created w/ my email address now Jun 05 11:17:47 the last time i tried they told me they couldn't do anything because their accounts were all down Jun 05 11:17:48 ... Jun 05 11:18:11 timeless, it's sony, they'll sue you for identity theft Jun 05 11:18:33 they stole my identity first! Jun 05 11:18:39 i want them to stop! Jun 05 11:20:15 cool, my laptop's kbd and tp died Jun 05 11:21:29 alright, just ssh into it! Jun 05 11:21:38 oh hrm Jun 05 11:21:47 my ideapad says it's 7:25am Jun 05 11:21:51 usb kbd Jun 05 11:21:56 the exopc said 11:21am Jun 05 11:22:04 i wonder what timezone the ideapad is in Jun 05 11:22:10 s/ideapad/exopc/ Jun 05 11:22:11 timeless meant: i wonder what timezone the exopc is in Jun 05 11:22:13 I'm happy about the tp Jun 05 11:22:16 i'm pretty sure i don't want to know Jun 05 11:22:55 * timeless goes off to snooze for a bit Jun 05 11:23:30 * ShadowJK suspects the TZ determines also whether to use am/pm or 24hr Jun 05 11:23:55 but maybe qml overrides that for things using qml Jun 05 11:25:04 keymapping Jun 05 11:38:10 getting time formatting correct w/ posix is pretty much impossible Jun 05 11:38:24 actually, getting most formatting stuff right w/ posix is hard if you need to care about real users :) Jun 05 11:39:49 timeless, I tried to find a human readable time format Jun 05 11:40:01 I think you have seen screenshot of what I ended up with Jun 05 12:42:15 shouldn't the compliance spec (for meego core) specify versions of packages? Jun 05 12:42:33 it does in 1.1 but 1.2's still a 'draft' Jun 05 12:42:40 in practice the repo is the baseline Jun 05 12:42:52 yep, i am reading the 1.2 draft Jun 05 12:43:05 so when the 1.2 spec will be finalized, the current versions from the repo will just be added there? Jun 05 12:43:39 pretty much Jun 05 12:43:48 any specific reason you ask? Jun 05 12:43:54 how realistic is that, to put a specific version in there? won't versions change due to things like security updates ? Jun 05 12:44:40 i saw python in there (which is good), but there are different versions of python with different capabilities. Jun 05 12:44:46 (i think 2.6 is the current one, though) Jun 05 12:44:52 "current one in meego" Jun 05 13:00:50 Anyone know when the Calligra-Suite Krita for Meego will be available? Jun 05 13:01:26 like for pads and other touch based devices. Jun 05 13:51:58 hi Jun 05 13:52:05 got a weird bug, didn't find anything on google Jun 05 13:52:11 when I hit any key on the keyboard Jun 05 13:52:29 it launches the shutdown dialog Jun 05 13:53:11 I have meego 1.2 on a lenovo ideapad s10-3t Jun 05 13:53:14 if you have any idea Jun 05 14:10:39 guyzmo: Hm, no idea here. So any button calls up the shutdown dialog? Jun 05 14:12:30 switch keyboard layout and see if it makes any difference? Jun 05 14:45:21 is there a separate bugzilla for build.pub.meego.com ? Jun 05 15:09:45 w00t: Jun 05 15:09:56 mikeleib: o/ Jun 05 15:10:00 w00t: wrt to merge request-- can you add comment it bug to explore it Jun 05 15:10:12 the memory use one? Jun 05 15:10:14 yeah Jun 05 15:10:17 will do Jun 05 15:10:44 I need to test it in the office with a target system. I have vnc to it- but visual artifacts are hard to see that way Jun 05 15:10:55 *nod* Jun 05 15:11:16 I also am playing with changing the update modes before and after we switch to/from/gl Jun 05 15:11:28 notsure if it does much Jun 05 15:13:14 commented Jun 05 15:13:34 thanks Jun 05 15:13:41 I wish I knew what was wrong with the exo.. heh.. Jun 05 15:13:47 it makes debugging difficult Jun 05 15:14:22 Stskeeps: can you test that on yours? start e.g. 'qmlviewer' from ssh, and note how the screen stops updating until you kill X Jun 05 15:14:41 (works with 'qmlviewer -opengl', so something really weird is going on) Jun 05 15:15:22 you get a white screen that won't go away until you kill X? Jun 05 15:15:35 I tried qmlviewer once and got a grey screen Jun 05 15:15:38 mikeleib: no Jun 05 15:15:46 whatever content raster draws once, gets drawn forever Jun 05 15:15:51 even after I kill the application Jun 05 15:15:53 hrm Jun 05 15:16:06 it stays that way until I kill X Jun 05 15:16:12 Xbu ? Jun 05 15:16:16 it's not a meego-ux problem, because as I say, qmlviewer triggers it too Jun 05 15:16:20 xbu? Jun 05 15:16:22 s/Xbu/Xbug/? Jun 05 15:16:36 ah Jun 05 15:16:51 yes, that's my theory.. I'm wondering if it's my image or what Jun 05 15:16:58 I guess I need to figure out how to update to latest 1.2 Jun 05 15:17:06 need to find the right repos for that Jun 05 15:17:27 me too Jun 05 15:18:03 my system is all half baked except for my target. and that's a pain b/c I have to reflash it every day or so w/ 5.6 gig images Jun 05 15:18:55 exactly Jun 05 15:23:15 * mikeleib ought to see if he can get some of this testing tooling open sourced Jun 05 15:25:54 testing tooling? ooh? :) Jun 05 15:26:18 what MeeGo seriously needs is some products that are based on it Jun 05 15:27:06 w00t: the tooling is not particularly fancy, but it just automates some things that are a pain Jun 05 15:27:21 I have a tool called rebooter that runs test scripts and reboots the system Jun 05 15:27:41 and I have a tool called memeater, which mallocs/mlocks pages until it drives you to swap Jun 05 15:27:58 and then some scripts to measure the output Jun 05 15:28:22 *nod* Jun 05 15:28:29 It's the sort of crap that isn't worth mentioning much except that I can't just post it on the web unless I get open source approval Jun 05 15:28:33 (get an n900 instead... you don't need any tool there *g*) Jun 05 15:29:10 well. measuring free memory is not something that is really directly measurable Jun 05 15:29:24 mikeleib: http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-tools/ contains some interesting gems that are probably usable in a meego context btw :) Jun 05 15:29:28 you have to exhaust all the memory and see when the kernel gives up on you Jun 05 15:29:33 hrm Jun 05 15:30:13 spiffy Jun 05 15:30:50 (sp-endurance might be relevant to you for instance) Jun 05 15:31:41 yeah Jun 05 15:32:14 these tools look really useful Jun 05 15:32:59 there is a learning curve.. but the things that can be done with them is *incredible* Jun 05 15:33:16 sooper Jun 05 15:33:22 is it possible to multi boot meego and maemo at the same time using on the emmc Jun 05 15:33:41 no, emmc install is destructive Jun 05 15:33:44 get a microsd Jun 05 15:33:54 get class 6 or better Jun 05 15:34:02 I'd like to get automated regression testing going for some of these things-- I feel like time goes by and we get surprised by the results Jun 05 15:34:26 Stskeeps: or I could run only meego on the N900? Jun 05 15:34:58 mikeleib: *nod* Jun 05 15:35:21 mikeleib: talk to the qa tools people Jun 05 15:35:34 they are really open to ideas Jun 05 15:35:59 we have a performance-qa team as well Jun 05 15:36:01 they implemented power measurement and graphing on qa-reports in really short time Jun 05 15:39:39 argh.. I gotta figure out why my screen keeps blanking every two minutes Jun 05 15:40:14 :| Jun 05 15:40:50 * mikeleib kills upowerd and wonders what will hapen Jun 05 15:40:58 not even sure what upowerd is Jun 05 15:41:27 some part of device kit it seems Jun 05 15:43:42 Abstraction for enumerating power devices, listening to device events and querying history and statistics Jun 05 16:02:56 alterego: I'm neither pregnant nor just had it. Mrs lcuk is due, IIRC. Jun 05 16:03:09 haha Jun 05 16:03:16 see facebook. Jun 05 16:03:17 Jaffa: bit of lag? ;) Jun 05 16:03:38 w00t: Caused by being out in my hat :-) Jun 05 16:03:45 Jaffa: I know, I realised that ;) Jun 05 16:04:32 lcuk2: Oooh, false alarm presumably. Unless you & Tracy are updating Facebook from the hospital :-) Jun 05 16:04:42 lol jaffa Jun 05 16:04:43 Hullo Jun 05 16:04:54 practice contractions Jun 05 16:04:58 Was just wondering whether MeeGo uses just Linux as a kernel, or the whole GNU/Linux stack? Jun 05 16:05:29 silver_hook: it uses a large portion of gnu/linux Jun 05 16:05:29 silver_hook: the whole gnu linux stack Jun 05 16:05:35 silver_hook, Linux himself uses ssh into every machine and personally uses a sliderule and pencil to compile the running code. Jun 05 16:05:37 silver_hook: there's gnu coreutils, bash, etc Jun 05 16:05:37 Thank you :] Jun 05 16:05:41 s/Linux/Linus/ Jun 05 16:05:42 lcuk2 meant: silver_hook, Linus himself uses ssh into every machine and personally uses a sliderule and pencil to compile the running code. Jun 05 16:05:48 That's why it is better than android *cough* :) Jun 05 16:05:58 alterego: That's why I'm asking ;) Jun 05 16:05:58 silver_hook: but! meego is not 100% like other distros, it's more tuned towards product making Jun 05 16:06:11 silver_hook: so in short it's lean and mean Qt stack Jun 05 16:06:18 Yeah, a meta-distro, let's say. Jun 05 16:07:06 i would call yocto, openembedded etc as meta distro Jun 05 16:07:20 but not meego necessarily Jun 05 16:07:43 is it a Kdistro or a Qdistro? Jun 05 16:08:04 for that matter, why isn't it called Qmeego Jun 05 16:08:21 meego is distro dilated towards mobile apps Jun 05 16:08:32 I think bergie's term "industrial" fits fairly well Jun 05 16:09:08 jarkko^: not really mobile :P Jun 05 16:09:14 berndhs: agree Jun 05 16:09:19 I' Jun 05 16:09:40 Would this be OK: Jun 05 16:09:43 can't we settle for embedded distro? Jun 05 16:09:47 I'm hacking together an internet enabled pub/bar oriented gaming system based on MeeGo and QML Jun 05 16:09:50 A very good rationale what MeeGo is about and how it differs from e.g. Android/Linux. Basically MeeGo is a full GNU/Linux meta-distribution with Qt in its default stack, created as a common ground for businesses to tailor it for their end-products. Jun 05 16:10:00 I wonder if I can get Rovio to release angry birds for it :D Jun 05 16:10:20 keep the angry birds on the other side of the bar Jun 05 16:10:26 Heh Jun 05 16:10:27 the beer is for men. Jun 05 16:10:43 silver_hook, that sounds reasonable Jun 05 16:10:57 angry birds should only be allowed if humans can have shotguns Jun 05 16:11:00 I don't even like these bar game machines, but it seems like a good use case for developing a custom meego instance. Jun 05 16:11:04 what is the fastest build of a new OS to date? Jun 05 16:11:13 which has gone from 0 to effective full use Jun 05 16:11:25 lcuk2: Thank you :] Will feature it in the next Free Software & Law news update and wanted to make sure I get it right. Jun 05 16:12:26 silver_hook: thanks for doing the research, seems a lot of people don't get it ;) Jun 05 16:12:59 now for those that did: how the hell do the required full os components go together Jun 05 16:13:15 * lcuk has considered a superset of templates for longest time Jun 05 16:13:41 alterego: Sure thing! :) Jun 05 16:13:51 I notice Windows are calling their elements "tiles" Jun 05 16:14:01 liqtile used to be the layout routines Jun 05 16:14:13 before they became organic and grew up into cells :) Jun 05 16:14:58 I just read Henri Bergius' blog post about it and thought it was more then worth speaking about it. Jun 05 16:15:26 I wish there were some MeeGo phones out there already though ...I was really looking forward to it for years :\ Jun 05 16:16:00 silver_hook, is that like being a developer with 10 years experience in a language created last year? Jun 05 16:16:23 what specifically from meego were you waiting for? Jun 05 16:16:30 lcuk: like an android dev with 5 years experience? /me saw a job posting for that Jun 05 16:16:36 :D Jun 05 16:16:43 hey, its been 1.4 years now :) Jun 05 16:16:45 The N9 will be one of the meego devices, or am I wrong? Jun 05 16:17:07 eh? I read its the N950 Jun 05 16:17:09 dyrvere: yes. It will be, or you're wrong :) Jun 05 16:17:25 btw, does the core meego Wifi app save passwords yet? Jun 05 16:18:06 Anyhow, I'm heading home bbiab Jun 05 16:18:41 It's one of the reason Meego 1.0 wasn't useful, network manager does not save the password for the next session. Jun 05 16:19:21 hiemanshu, that was for illustrative purposes re: market placement, not actually an indication of what it would be called. Jun 05 16:20:00 what difference does it make what they will call it ? Jun 05 16:22:37 lcuk: Hehe, naaaah, I really wanted a Maemo Nokia phone ...but then, yeah. Jun 05 16:23:30 tiles, elements, plasmoids.. hm Jun 05 16:23:53 Have you considered WICD instead of NM? Jun 05 16:25:15 does it have any compability issues currently? Last time I checked it lost connection from time to time. Jun 05 16:26:49 dyrvere: WICD? Dunno, I stopped using it because it didn't support yet WPA2 Enterprise, which I needed for EduRoam. But apart from that, I was happier with it then NM. Jun 05 16:29:31 connman does support wpa2 enterprise Jun 05 16:29:54 Ahh, good stuff. Actually need WPA2 ent at work. Jun 05 16:32:41 'lo mwichmann Jun 05 16:32:57 hello Jun 05 16:36:44 but, the wpa password save for connman, is it in yet? :p Jun 05 16:47:22 arfoll: told you the RSS feed always ticking... =D Jun 05 16:48:30 sofar, cpu gain isn't awesome, but at this stage i will take anything ;-) Jun 05 16:48:51 I'm sad that in idle with screensaver on, I can't get xbmc below 2% Jun 05 16:48:57 that's 2% on a core2 Jun 05 16:49:00 not atom :() Jun 05 16:49:07 i just wish I had a CE4170... yeah xbmc idle sucks Jun 05 16:49:30 It's probably trying indexing files or something Jun 05 16:49:33 although i've got idle to something like 1% on CE4150 when launching an external app! Jun 05 16:49:41 strace? Jun 05 16:49:56 wow, 1.2.0.90 tablet is awesome Jun 05 16:50:06 Stskeeps: ^ Jun 05 16:50:19 i know, i use it on my joggler Jun 05 16:50:26 bogna crashed it within 2 min Jun 05 16:50:36 yeah, still not perfect Jun 05 16:50:40 i have a nonworking browser Jun 05 16:51:59 X still screws up with non-GL applications, sadly Jun 05 16:54:35 hm, can meego run on a Core 2 Duo desktop PC? xD Jun 05 16:54:55 yes, permitted it has intel gfx Jun 05 16:55:16 oh.. Core i7 even then I guess. Jun 05 16:56:00 works too, just need to have onboard intel GFX Jun 05 17:04:51 doesn't the i7 have built-in graphics? Jun 05 17:04:59 (like an atom) Jun 05 17:13:59 any chance I could have a few more followers on http://twitter.com/lcuk please Jun 05 17:14:47 (I am trying to find out if twitter is still sending out emails) Jun 05 17:16:26 suuure suure, that's what they all say :P Jun 05 17:17:19 w00t, it is the "... is now following you on twitter" Jun 05 17:17:38 my follower count increases daily but I haven't seen any of those mails in a while Jun 05 17:17:44 since they changed them I tihnk Jun 05 17:20:14 does Meego have built in support for PyQt apps? Jun 05 17:24:46 hiemanshu, I believe python itself was not a full part of meego until recently Jun 05 17:24:49 lcuk: there's a notifications section in twitter settings, have you checked it? Jun 05 17:24:56 not sure if it is required for complience still Jun 05 17:25:16 javispedro, yes Jun 05 17:25:25 but I noticed the change first Jun 05 17:25:34 lcuk: well I see it is there now, so is there a way to get it working? I am a PyQt dev, and well I can learn a lot and help development Jun 05 17:25:39 hiemanshu, I've heard that PySide > PyQt, wrt. MeeGo Jun 05 17:25:50 it could just be that a load of follower flip floppers are readding and hence not resending the email Jun 05 17:26:00 mikhas: ah, PySide isn't really that different from PyQt Jun 05 17:26:43 gabrbedd, sure Jun 05 17:26:44 the showstopper so far seems the additional image size, if either PyQt or PySide were included in the MeeGo images Jun 05 17:26:45 :P Jun 05 17:26:50 I get all other mails Jun 05 17:26:54 :-p Jun 05 17:26:57 and my follower count increases Jun 05 17:27:12 berndhs: NEWS FLASH! Time to fear bean sprouts. Jun 05 17:27:15 mikhas: how big is the difference? Jun 05 17:27:43 dont have the numbers, sorry Jun 05 17:27:44 mikhas, meego n900 images are designed to fit inside 4gb cards Jun 05 17:27:55 how much extra download bandwidth does it need Jun 05 17:27:59 lcuk, I find the CD image size silly myself, too Jun 05 17:28:16 I find that a reasonable thing personally Jun 05 17:28:24 you still use CD's? Jun 05 17:28:32 eh, what are CDs? Jun 05 17:28:36 exactly Jun 05 17:29:02 gabrbedd: ah I feel better now Jun 05 17:29:05 mikhas, I have a cd image of meego 1.1 Jun 05 17:29:16 as well as lovely usb key from dublin Jun 05 17:29:18 mikhas: according to the package list of the image, it has pyside included Jun 05 17:29:22 (actual key shaped with shamrock) Jun 05 17:29:38 mikhas: http://bit.ly/kCVvJr Jun 05 17:29:57 hiemanshu, the developer edition has Jun 05 17:30:04 not official MeeGo image Jun 05 17:30:12 ah Jun 05 17:31:17 I have been using python so much, I am too lazy to start learning C/C++ Jun 05 17:32:00 It does take a while to master C/C++ if you've only been using interpreted languages all your life :P Jun 05 17:32:21 alterego: but its worth it Jun 05 17:32:33 gabrbedd, which memo btw? :P Jun 05 17:32:43 I am barely 21 :P I have been using python for about 2 years now, I could always learn C/C++ Jun 05 17:32:44 well, logic is still the same, it's just the memory management Jun 05 17:32:52 berndhs: definitely Jun 05 17:33:15 hiemanshu: I'd do it before you hit thirty ;) Jun 05 17:33:30 lcuk: The e-mail is the memo. Jun 05 17:33:36 lcuk: didja get the e-mail? Jun 05 17:33:45 lcuk: I'll send you a copy of that e-mail. Jun 05 17:33:53 lol Jun 05 17:33:56 I got the email Jun 05 17:34:05 * alterego contemplates QML and network transparency .. Jun 05 17:34:28 * maligor contemplates using QML to rewrite the linux kernel Jun 05 17:34:52 I want to write an SMS UI that is fed from my N900 to whatever device I choose over the network. Jun 05 17:35:09 alterego: maybe I should start now Jun 05 17:35:21 But now I'm going to research writing a QML browser plugin. Jun 05 17:35:25 For firefox .. Jun 05 17:35:46 maligor: emacs needs a QML rewrite, too. Jun 05 17:35:48 alterego, in whitespace? Jun 05 17:36:25 gabrbedd, yes, true, I shall work on it using vim Jun 05 17:37:11 I guess totem is the only FOSS plugin I can think of to see how it's done .. Jun 05 17:37:27 I feel that python backend and qml should be our app developer story, not c++ backend and qml. Jun 05 17:37:47 Though even just registering qml viewer for application/qml is a good start for my idea. Jun 05 17:39:26 The python/qml developer story needs a prequel, on what python packages will be available. Jun 05 17:41:12 mikhas, I'm not really sure if that makes sense Jun 05 17:41:20 python isn't exactly fast Jun 05 17:41:51 I'm not terribly sure about Qt's ECMA Script performance Jun 05 17:43:07 mikhas: do i misremember, or did you do some hackery to the vkb to make it use the full horizontal screen width? Jun 05 17:43:18 mikhas: where did those patches/work end up? Jun 05 17:43:29 Is their a maliit ppa? Jun 05 17:43:41 there .. Jun 05 17:45:00 intel just needs to make a python accelerator x86 isa extension Jun 05 17:45:39 maligor: it's fast and getting faster (with V8) Jun 05 17:46:01 mikhas: the problem with python+qml instead of c+++qml (heh) is that you don't interpreted+interpreted Jun 05 17:46:33 mikhas: if you're going to use something else than QML (which is interpreted), it's usually because of performance requirements. Then go native. Jun 05 17:51:40 * lcuk sighs heavily Jun 05 17:54:09 Wassup lcuk? Jun 05 17:54:09 sup? Jun 05 17:57:49 alterego, isketch Jun 05 17:58:08 when I talked about irc with sketching everybody goes "nahh crap" Jun 05 17:58:13 :) Jun 05 17:58:49 Heh Jun 05 17:59:36 yeah "heh" is it, but the amount of apps and core pieces I have gotten started in liqbase and given some assistance would have polished and finished on Nokia/MeeGo would be amazingly awesome Jun 05 17:59:55 so I am a bit miffed Jun 05 18:01:01 very incomplete sketching irc client is liqtactoe in maemo Jun 05 18:04:08 Oo, new series of topgear? Jun 05 18:04:42 konversation has whiteboard(sketching)-over-dcc support too Jun 05 18:06:04 Mek, group sketching or 1:1 Jun 05 18:06:04 really? Jun 05 18:06:45 lcuk: http://buscher.zxq.net/2010/01/konversation-%E2%80%93-introducing-dcc-whiteboard/ Jun 05 18:07:50 mek cool Jun 05 18:09:09 Mek, this is group conversations (not irc, but LAN based using OpenSoundControl) Jun 05 18:09:10 http://liqbase.net/liq.liqbase.multi.sketch.S6003750.JPG Jun 05 18:10:19 he has 2 n900! Jun 05 18:10:32 vldcnst, 3 Jun 05 18:10:45 I've got 3 too :) Jun 05 18:10:52 And, all of mine have USB ports .. Jun 05 18:10:57 How about yours lcuk? :) Jun 05 18:11:00 haha Jun 05 18:11:08 2/3 Jun 05 18:11:12 only one of my 2 has a usb port Jun 05 18:11:12 ^.^ Jun 05 18:11:26 * alterego is #winning :P Jun 05 18:11:34 alterego, I have other family members that also have devices Jun 05 18:11:45 Yeah, my brother has one too Jun 05 18:11:52 2 I understand, but 3? Jun 05 18:11:58 I've got a few friends that have them as well. Jun 05 18:11:59 * lcuk notes that one device should be elsewhere and heads to post office tomorrow Jun 05 18:12:13 vldcnst, one I cannot and do not use. Jun 05 18:12:31 main phone and test device are the others Jun 05 18:13:20 Do you still have that N9? :P Jun 05 18:13:41 ? Jun 05 18:13:46 nvm Jun 05 18:13:52 * lcuk would not hint at anything unreleased Jun 05 18:14:09 i want the N9000 Titanium Edition Jun 05 18:14:14 with MeeGo 3.0 Jun 05 18:14:19 So, I bought this domain yesterday: http://www.meegonetwork.org.uk/ Jun 05 18:14:26 Gonna have to find some time to properly develop it. Jun 05 18:14:28 yesterday? Jun 05 18:14:40 who owns meegouk twitter account? Jun 05 18:14:43 Oh, friday actually .. Jun 05 18:15:01 I dunno, I got MeeGoNetworkUK Jun 05 18:16:04 Hey DawnFoster \o Jun 05 18:16:22 Having fun with the family? ;) Jun 05 18:28:49 hi Jun 05 18:28:54 hi Jun 05 18:29:08 my first time here Jun 05 18:29:14 hi Jun 05 18:29:19 hi Jun 05 18:29:39 going through the tutorials and trying to install Meego on my N900 Jun 05 18:30:03 * alterego starts working on QML mapping .. Jun 05 18:30:58 alterego: you mean like... point A to point B mapping? Jun 05 18:31:23 I don't know yet :P Jun 05 18:31:26 I'm investigating. Jun 05 18:31:56 But that's navigation, not mapping Jun 05 18:33:28 alterego: I kinda meant as opposed to computer science mapping. Jun 05 18:34:27 Hah Jun 05 18:34:29 Okay :) Jun 05 18:34:48 I'm very confused, I've charged up a battery in one N900 the other day, but it wont even startup now O_O Jun 05 18:36:46 Does the battery charging work with the latest Meego handset release? Jun 05 18:37:02 yes Jun 05 18:37:07 claudio_: wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 Jun 05 18:37:39 thx :-) Jun 05 18:39:44 I read there "The eMMC currently has a severe performance problem, bug #18295", do you think I can still use it as a main phone? Jun 05 18:40:09 i was planning to install it on the eMMC Jun 05 18:40:23 claudio_: well, meego n900 isn't a consumer product, so it's really for developers - we're doing an effort to make it possible to use it as a day to day phone Jun 05 18:40:43 well, I wan't to develop Jun 05 18:40:54 alright then Jun 05 18:40:58 But I'm a Java web developer Jun 05 18:41:22 i'd recommend you to look at videos of the SF2011 release of MeeGo DE - i would really recommend trying meego out on a microsd card first Jun 05 18:41:29 I'm ready to learn QT and I was planning to start by creating some apps Jun 05 18:41:40 eMMC will make it unable to coexist with maemo, so maemo won't work Jun 05 18:42:04 Stskeeps, I hear this X is not a real distro, n900-de is not for end users etc Jun 05 18:42:12 I'm ready to abandon Maemo if Meego is already usable... even if still buggy Jun 05 18:42:19 how big a gap in real terms is it to stabilise any of these things Jun 05 18:42:30 I know we are getting solid improvements for everything Jun 05 18:42:40 but for it to be described so often Jun 05 18:43:00 makes me wonder just how if we documented the steps necessary we could make meego ready for end users Jun 05 18:43:06 and ready for more than developers Jun 05 18:43:57 for instance, we do not generally include codecs inside the images Jun 05 18:44:04 but the netbook build happily plays mp3s Jun 05 18:44:04 I think we can expect to be "power user" ready by october Jun 05 18:44:17 errr it might not hang on, mixing up machines Jun 05 18:44:20 lcuk: errr.. netbook shouldn't Jun 05 18:44:28 ^^ yeah sorry Jun 05 18:44:49 I think right now we're at a stage where developers can hack it Jun 05 18:44:57 lcuk: try to use meego n900 de for a day and make a user writeup of experiences Jun 05 18:45:02 as your primary device Jun 05 18:45:07 It's very hackable. Not very usable yet (at least tablet). Jun 05 18:45:09 :) Jun 05 18:45:19 Tablet is a completely different story :P Jun 05 18:45:34 I think the biggest thing I'll miss is conboy Jun 05 18:45:48 conboy was cornelius hald's, right? Jun 05 18:45:54 and yeah, i need conboy too :P Jun 05 18:46:01 tablet's improving at an alarming rate though Jun 05 18:46:22 whoever is whipping you tablet guys are doing a good job ;) Jun 05 18:46:27 Well, tablet has Intel pushing it hard. Jun 05 18:46:35 the music player knows it is mp3 Jun 05 18:46:45 the music player can extract the tags and album info Jun 05 18:46:49 We have the DE team, which has helped no end in giving us goals Jun 05 18:46:56 the music player cannot actively play it though Jun 05 18:47:01 As well as pushing for maemo components. Jun 05 18:47:09 Stskeeps, I use the n900-de every day Jun 05 18:47:13 and I talk about it here Jun 05 18:47:16 with devs Jun 05 18:47:18 I swear my email client removes all it's content and redownloads it all from the server Jun 05 18:47:23 and try to get the bugs to day-day usage sorted Jun 05 18:47:31 lcuk: yeah, but i mean like.. go outside the lab ;) Jun 05 18:47:31 wifi networking is a MUST for me Jun 05 18:47:39 Stskeeps, :) Jun 05 18:47:44 I am unable to without wifi Jun 05 18:47:45 Indeed Jun 05 18:47:53 And a working terminal ;) Jun 05 18:47:55 but I know more than most Jun 05 18:48:00 that should be coming quite soon Jun 05 18:48:04 because I am one pushing for it to be upgradable Jun 05 18:48:05 according to quim Jun 05 18:48:08 so there seems to be a problem with the meego installer script for the N900, even though I get Error claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy, it says flashing done on the next line and installation fails Jun 05 18:48:21 you cannot "use" day to day if the additions you make are wiped out the next day by daily-testing images Jun 05 18:48:35 lcuk: sounds like a good task for you to get into Jun 05 18:48:38 make SSU functionality Jun 05 18:48:44 there are only so many times I will type in the contacts entries Jun 05 18:48:50 or a todo list or other things Jun 05 18:48:55 I know Stskeeps ! Jun 05 18:49:03 Yeah, Jun 05 18:49:29 Stskeeps, I am very much behind this - it ties in with the backup/restore/import stuff too Jun 05 18:50:00 Stskeeps, if xv worked I would have even more things Jun 05 18:50:04 I keep saying I'll write vcard import/export Jun 05 18:50:04 right, let's get some code on the table then and a design wiki Jun 05 18:50:15 But everytime someone says, don't bother, I think it's being worked on :P Jun 05 18:50:18 more reasons to actively use it Jun 05 18:50:29 alterego: hmm. Jun 05 18:50:42 alterego: point me to someone who says 'don't bother', as i'm not aware of one Jun 05 18:50:47 Or "someone said something about doing that" Jun 05 18:50:58 I might just do it now. Jun 05 18:51:07 It'd probably take me like 30 minutes to have a crap prototype. Jun 05 18:51:11 Stskeeps, I talk in realtime better and would be better to talk with someone to do the writeups, it worked very well when I worked with araujo :) Jun 05 18:51:37 is meego on the N900 really really slow or is it would be my phone? Jun 05 18:51:44 hiemanshu: first boot is always very very slow Jun 05 18:51:50 hiemanshu: it collects data for fast next boots Jun 05 18:52:14 Stskeeps: no, I mean, it isn't really opening any apps properly Jun 05 18:52:51 hiemanshu: launch times are not good, what class SD? Jun 05 18:53:00 Stskeeps: eMMC Jun 05 18:53:20 see bug 18295 Jun 05 18:53:23 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18295 nor, Undecided, ---, carsten, NEW, [DE] [N900] eMMC performance is significantly worse than in Maemo Jun 05 18:56:05 Stskeeps, MeeGo terminal had some issues with N900DE, works OK in tablet UX though. Jun 05 18:56:40 I'll try to look into that this week. Jun 05 18:57:15 Would have been so nice if we could have presented it for the conference. Oh well, bad timing. Jun 05 18:57:37 mikhas: indeed - you're one of the authors or? Jun 05 18:58:01 Stskeeps, no, but been working together with the author. Jun 05 18:58:06 ok Jun 05 18:58:25 (I have the sources though) Jun 05 19:00:29 Oh BTW, get your own MeeGon: appupavatar.com Jun 05 19:04:00 mikhas, http://liqbase.net/appupavatar.com_lcuk.meego.avatar.png Jun 05 19:04:07 That's the website I've been looking for! Jun 05 19:04:07 from last weekish Jun 05 19:04:27 lcuk, no pet? Jun 05 19:06:59 mikhas, i have a totem Jun 05 19:14:46 Mmm, specilationtastic ;) http://technomoblion.com/2011/06/05/nokias-n950n9-will-be-announced-june-21st-at-nokia-connection-2011/ Jun 05 19:14:57 (be fun if it was, that's my birthday ;) ) Jun 05 19:15:07 Heh Jun 05 19:19:57 http://i.imgur.com/vZWFh.png Jun 05 19:19:58 haha Jun 05 19:20:16 +1 Jun 05 19:21:28 Ha! Nice ;) Jun 05 19:21:37 can i get that as a poster? Jun 05 19:22:11 "MeeGo: We will rule ze world soon" Jun 05 19:24:32 http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/my-meegon.png Jun 05 19:24:36 There's mine :) Jun 05 19:24:56 looks like you Jun 05 19:25:00 :) Jun 05 19:25:03 except for the beard Jun 05 19:25:09 You should see me this morning :P Jun 05 19:27:44 true, conferences are typically a place where people have done an effort to look okay Jun 05 19:27:47 debconf not inclued Jun 05 19:28:00 Hah Jun 05 19:28:46 * alterego wonders what slideshare is .. Jun 05 19:28:57 Oh, presentation sharing website, interesting .. Jun 05 19:42:32 I'm somewhat skeptical that the Harmattan device will be announced at Nokia Connection, it's possible, but no community members will be there. Jun 05 19:42:36 Seems a bit crazy .. Jun 05 19:46:02 They don't want those sort of people there. Jun 05 19:46:14 They're wierd, and ask awkward questions. Jun 05 19:46:20 :) Jun 05 19:46:31 Like, "Is it compatible with MeeGo?" Jun 05 19:46:37 Like 'Why is it covered in sapphires and aligator hide, and $28000' Jun 05 19:46:39 "Will it be upgradeable to MeeGo"? Jun 05 19:46:56 "Will it dual boot Android?" Jun 05 19:47:06 "Can we over clock it?" Jun 05 20:01:01 * CosmoHill comes to the conclusion that his email client is retarded cos it re-downloads cosmo's whole inbox Jun 05 20:02:37 * gabrbedd wonders which client CosmoHill is using. Jun 05 20:02:52 Mail (mac OS X) Jun 05 20:03:09 dm8tb: ping Jun 05 20:03:38 CosmoHill: thx Jun 05 20:04:43 (still downloading) Jun 05 20:11:10 dm8tbr, anab1s is looking for you Jun 05 20:11:35 anab1s: ah, you truncated my nick, sorry didn't see it Jun 05 20:12:00 dm8tbr: oops Jun 05 20:12:20 dm8tbr: vgrade says you could help with uploading some image files Jun 05 20:14:47 anab1s: the rules are very simple: always include the kickstart file, if there are closed source binaries - they have to be redistributable, the filename starts with 'mg' NOT 'meego' Jun 05 20:15:38 the latter is necessary until we get bug 13516 resolved Jun 05 20:15:42 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13516 nor, Undecided, ---, brian.warner, ASSI, Proposal: Allow MeeGo trademark usage in form of ", a MeeGo R&D project" Jun 05 20:16:05 dm8tbr: all right Jun 05 20:16:17 details see privmsg Jun 05 20:17:41 * CosmoHill appludes his email client for re-syncing 55MB every time it starts Jun 05 20:19:54 btw: everyone is invited to vote for bugs 17570 13516 10738 Jun 05 20:20:21 let's try again, bug 17570 13516 10738 Jun 05 20:20:23 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17570 nor, Undecided, ---, ibrahim, NEW, Lack of hardfp compiled graphics drivers from TI, Qualcomm, nVidia, etc Jun 05 20:20:37 hrm Jun 05 20:20:49 bug 13516 bug 10738 Jun 05 20:20:52 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13516 nor, Undecided, ---, brian.warner, ASSI, Proposal: Allow MeeGo trademark usage in form of ", a MeeGo R&D project" Jun 05 20:20:54 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10738 nor, Undecided, ---, tero.kojo, NEED, Meego community ftp server or similar needed Jun 05 20:20:58 ah Jun 05 20:33:19 lcuk! http://www.maplin.co.uk/robotic-arm-kit-with-usb-pc-interface-266257 Jun 05 20:42:05 expensive Jun 05 20:42:28 where would one send bug reports for the flashplugin, I can't find any support section on Adobes site. Jun 05 20:42:52 Flaah plugin on what? Jun 05 20:43:26 dyrvere: email them :) Jun 05 20:43:35 ok, thanks :) Jun 05 20:43:43 Whilst you're at it, tell them they should have a public bug tracker :) Jun 05 20:43:45 Linux in general. Jun 05 20:43:52 They used to alterego. Jun 05 20:43:58 Don't they still? Jun 05 20:44:12 Dunno Jun 05 20:44:48 yeah not when I was using the beta of 10.3, no bugtracker available for me. Jun 05 20:55:10 CosmoHill, fwded to people in charge of Fathers day stuff ;) Jun 05 22:06:11 bacon, not sprouts ! Jun 05 22:08:18 mmmm, bacon. Jun 05 22:11:08 mmm bacon. Jun 05 22:23:14 bacon, avacado and mayonaise.... tomorrow Jun 05 22:32:48 cyas Jun 05 22:32:56 night Jun 05 22:33:41 hayfever still sucks Jun 05 22:33:48 it does Jun 05 22:38:58 http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/04/07/qml-perfomance-monitor/ Jun 05 22:39:03 just because I refound it Jun 05 23:02:46 mayonaise, is good for you. Jun 05 23:03:23 As part of a balanced diet, yes. Jun 05 23:06:40 btw, Icculus is the go-to-guy for porting games to GNU/Linux, anyone else doing that but him these days? Jun 06 01:56:53 This http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/understanding_meego/ is awesome, in case anyone missed it. Strikes precisely the right tone. Jun 06 01:57:12 Big up to you, bergie. Jun 06 02:01:31 * gabrbedd posts link on FB... Jun 06 02:46:06 any dbus wizards around? Jun 06 02:48:22 This doesn't work for me... dbus-send --print-reply --session --dest=unix:path=/tmp/meego-im-uiserver/imserver_dbus /com/meego/inputmethod/uiserver1 com.meego.inputmethod.uiserver1.showInputMethod Jun 06 02:48:58 Fails an assert Jun 06 02:49:09 Is it valid to put a socket path for --dest ?? Jun 06 02:50:04 on my f15 it dumps core Jun 06 02:50:34 it shoulnd work, the arguments are nonsense on f15, but not dump core Jun 06 02:52:09 berndhs: yeah, I get a core as well. Jun 06 02:58:01 So, did Nomovok release any source? Jun 06 02:58:15 wmarone_, see that? Jun 06 02:58:25 yeah I saw that Jun 06 02:58:39 kinda hard to compete with someone paid to work on it ;) Jun 06 02:58:47 and I haven't seen anything yet Jun 06 02:59:47 see what? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 06 02:59:57 2011