**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 12 02:59:56 2011
Jun 12 03:15:25 <berndhs> good night
Jun 12 03:33:01 <Termana> morning
Jun 12 07:47:01 <iekku> morning
Jun 12 08:20:37 * Sage just tested another usb stick and with that the installation of tablet ux still stalls to the very end of copying files to hard drive
Jun 12 08:32:50 <Jaffa> mikhas: I think Stskeeps is right, my name's on the wrong page. GeneralAntilles suggested starting a TSG agenda page a few hours before Dawn published the CO mtg agenda
Jun 12 08:37:38 * Stskeeps would be interested to see the platform you're running on described :P
Jun 12 08:40:53 * Jaffa has been nominated by someone else at the moment :p
Jun 12 08:40:59 <Stskeeps> heh
Jun 12 08:41:16 <Stskeeps> i kind of like CO's nominations this time around, niels & texrat definately has merit in the project for their roles, which is good to see
Jun 12 08:41:31 <Jaffa> Anyway, time to go out with family and be a tourist all day.
Jun 12 08:41:33 <Stskeeps> cya
Jun 12 08:41:35 <Jaffa> Agreed
Jun 12 08:43:20 * lardman puzzles through the Proximus update logic
Jun 12 09:04:12 * lardman wonders if he's made a mistake or if QtCreator just can't understand his multiple layers of nested classes
Jun 12 09:04:20 <lardman> probably the former
Jun 12 09:05:24 <thiago_home> it has a problem a while ago
Jun 12 09:05:34 <thiago_home> classes inside functions for example
Jun 12 09:06:18 <thiago_home> it had a problem, I mean
Jun 12 09:09:23 <lardman> ah ok, so I'll stop scratching my head and see what happens when I try to compile eventually
Jun 12 09:56:43 <Venemo> lardman, Qt Creator doesn't really like any esoteric stuff like that. eg. it doesn't support lambdas either
Jun 12 10:05:17 <lardman> I don't even know what a lambda is in the context of Qt/C++ :)
Jun 12 10:34:16 <alterego> QML has closures And anonymous functions.
Jun 12 10:34:49 <alterego> :)
Jun 12 10:35:48 <thiago_home> Venemo: I thought roberto had added lambda support for 2.2
Jun 12 10:35:51 <thiago_home> are you using that?
Jun 12 10:35:59 <thiago_home> lardman: [](){}()
Jun 12 10:36:51 <RST38h> Holy fuck, this Android stuff is an abomination =(
Jun 12 10:37:04 <alterego> What Android stuff?
Jun 12 10:37:28 <arnotixe> hi all is it at all possible to boot  meego-netbook-ia32/   meego 1.2.0 image on a desktop PC? Here it boots but I get "Cannot mount / or bad option", then "Cannot remount with SSD option" and it seems to stop there... (Booting from usb=
Jun 12 10:37:31 <RST38h> alterego: I am trying to figure out how ot use Android SDK
Jun 12 10:37:43 <Stskeeps> RST38h: so there's worse things than meego? ;)
Jun 12 10:37:49 <RST38h> alterego: It gives Scratchbox a simple and familiar feel
Jun 12 10:38:14 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Well, the Meego stuff, after you helped me installing it locally, feels like SB, more or less
Jun 12 10:39:13 <RST38h> Stskeeps: The Android SDK feels like a bunch of undergrads have hastily laid a steaming pile of fecal matter and called it an "SDK".
Jun 12 10:40:47 <alterego> Wow, that bad.
Jun 12 10:49:25 <phaeron> thiago_home: ping
Jun 12 10:52:05 <timakima> RST38h: really? i tried it couple of months ago and it was easy to install and worked out of the box. didn't do much more than "hello world" with it though.
Jun 12 10:52:26 <timakima> same thing with ndk
Jun 12 10:57:43 <RST38h> Ahahaha
Jun 12 10:57:54 <RST38h> Here are the simplest NDK instructions I could find: http://mobile.tutsplus.com/tutorials/android/ndk-tutorial/
Jun 12 10:57:58 <RST38h> Read and weep.
Jun 12 11:14:05 <thiago_home> phaeron: pong
Jun 12 11:19:34 <RST38h> Ok, native part builds now
Jun 12 11:19:49 <RST38h> Now the dreadful Dalvik part...
Jun 12 11:23:00 <RST38h> Ehehe, none of the tools written in Java and supplied with the SDK run. They all end up with a Java exception of one kind or another.
Jun 12 11:23:09 <thiago_home>     char *szFormat = "The sum of the two numbers is: %i";
Jun 12 11:23:12 <thiago_home> eww
Jun 12 11:24:22 <RST38h> Thereis something called Jython. Python implemented in Java? =)
Jun 12 11:29:43 <alterego> And JRuby :)
Jun 12 11:31:27 <thiago_home> how about a pyjava?
Jun 12 11:33:13 <lcuk> thiago_home, as long as you run it in a QML instance
Jun 12 11:33:27 <alterego> pyjamas
Jun 12 11:33:57 <thiago_home> sounds like a good name for the project
Jun 12 11:37:09 <lcuk> alterego, are you already pondering next week?
Jun 12 11:37:19 * lcuk was rather hopeful tracy would have had baby already
Jun 12 11:38:30 <lcuk> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/blog/2011/jun/01/hactivate
Jun 12 11:40:27 <alterego> lcuk: I am pondering it yes :)
Jun 12 11:49:45 <alterego> Only doing handset and tablet now?
Jun 12 11:49:51 <alterego> No tablet-apps?
Jun 12 11:50:04 <alterego> Oh, whoops, wrong room :)
Jun 12 11:51:39 <alterego> What's the name of the kernel headers package in meego?
Jun 12 11:52:16 <Stskeeps> kernel-headers or kernel-adaptation-n900-devel
Jun 12 11:52:40 <alterego> Where does it install the headers to?
Jun 12 11:53:15 <lcuk> alterego, so have you got any life changing apps?
Jun 12 11:53:20 <lcuk> or ideas to implement
Jun 12 11:53:30 <alterego> lcuk: I've got one, but it's huge
Jun 12 11:53:38 <alterego> So I might have to cheat and do a bit over this week.
Jun 12 11:53:56 <alterego> Write a few libs I can use at the event.
Jun 12 11:54:00 <alterego> What about yourself?
Jun 12 11:54:21 <lcuk> my life changes daily
Jun 12 11:54:37 <lcuk> and each time it does I come up with a new app to help
Jun 12 11:54:49 <lcuk> so, yeahh I have a few thoughts
Jun 12 11:55:50 <lcuk> alterego, when we were talking qml a few weeks ago about position indicators, I realised I had not put the fix in place in liq*
Jun 12 11:55:51 <alterego> Cool
Jun 12 11:55:59 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liq.20110611_212411.liqed.scr.png
Jun 12 11:56:08 <alterego> Heh
Jun 12 11:56:12 <alterego> Cool
Jun 12 11:56:19 <lcuk> translucent blue scroll indicators :D
Jun 12 11:56:23 <lcuk> on x and y
Jun 12 11:56:41 <alterego> Yeah, I've got that in dialer :)
Jun 12 11:57:19 <lcuk> where does dialer need that?
Jun 12 11:57:26 <lcuk> you don't have to pan around to see?
Jun 12 11:57:34 <alterego> History, Contacts, Favourites
Jun 12 11:57:38 <alterego> Well, no, just on y
Jun 12 11:57:42 <alterego> But the code does x & y
Jun 12 11:57:47 <alterego> I wrote it to be generic.
Jun 12 11:58:21 <lcuk> I thought actual kinetics were a sorted issue?
Jun 12 11:58:40 <alterego> Hrm?
Jun 12 11:58:47 <alterego> We're talking about the indicators right?
Jun 12 11:58:53 * lcuk just had a math equation missing for the indicator position
Jun 12 11:59:06 <alterego> Oh right
Jun 12 11:59:10 <lcuk> yeah indicators are the visual portion to kinetics
Jun 12 11:59:20 <alterego> You have to roll your own in QML
Jun 12 11:59:45 <lcuk> so we still have many different kinetics?
Jun 12 12:00:15 * lcuk expected useKinetics(true);
Jun 12 12:00:33 <alterego> I've never heard it called kinetics
Jun 12 12:00:58 <alterego> The point about QML is, no UI definitions
Jun 12 12:01:10 <alterego> Why would you want it to draw them? It should be left to the UI element designer.
Jun 12 12:01:11 <lcuk> and for a long list
Jun 12 12:01:17 <lcuk> how do you pan to the bottom of it?
Jun 12 12:01:38 <alterego> That, has only been a problem since I imported my ~220 contacts from Maemo :P
Jun 12 12:01:42 <alterego> So I'm working on it.
Jun 12 12:01:46 <lcuk> :)
Jun 12 12:02:03 <alterego> I'll probably do something similar to how the people app works, with A-Z buttons down the _left_ handside.
Jun 12 12:02:15 <lcuk> i just make a ui element larger than its container (which then defines the kinetic area)
Jun 12 12:02:15 <alterego> Seems more intuitive to be having them down the left.
Jun 12 12:02:28 <lcuk> and bind the mouse event to a standard kinetic handler
Jun 12 12:02:42 <lcuk> all lists, grids, pictures, pages etc all act and feel the same
Jun 12 12:02:55 <alterego> Yeah, same with my code really.
Jun 12 12:03:18 <RST38h> Oh fuck, it is PalmOS all over again =(
Jun 12 12:03:32 <RST38h> No static data.
Jun 12 12:04:17 <alterego> lcuk: You just do something like: ListView { ScrollIndicator { target: parent } }
Jun 12 12:04:56 <lcuk> alterego, but how do you handle the mouse events?
Jun 12 12:05:04 <alterego> I don't need to.
Jun 12 12:05:09 <lcuk> the ermmm Qt description is flickable?
Jun 12 12:05:26 <alterego> A ListView inherits Flickable
Jun 12 12:05:46 <alterego> My "ScrollIndicator" just relies on its' parent being a "Flickable"
Jun 12 12:06:05 <lcuk> that is good then
Jun 12 12:06:21 <alterego> Yeah, works really nicely :)
Jun 12 12:07:24 <lcuk> apart from that you cannot use it for your contacts that easily
Jun 12 12:07:36 <alterego> You mean for quick navigation?
Jun 12 12:07:38 * lcuk pleased you have real data in the list now
Jun 12 12:07:41 <alterego> It's just a visual indicator.
Jun 12 12:07:44 <lcuk> yeah
Jun 12 12:11:38 <alterego> But you're right, I should have done the contact import thing ages ago.
Jun 12 12:11:54 <alterego> The people app takes _ages_ to startup when you've got loads of contacts btw.
Jun 12 12:12:08 <alterego> It's awful, I got the "Do you want to close" dialog about 4 times.
Jun 12 12:12:22 <Stskeeps> heh
Jun 12 12:12:32 <Stskeeps> and who said tracker was perfoming well..
Jun 12 12:13:20 <alterego> It works great in dialer.
Jun 12 12:13:24 <alterego> Doesn't effect startup time at all.
Jun 12 12:13:35 <alterego> Scrolling is nice and fluid.
Jun 12 12:14:42 <Stskeeps> interesting
Jun 12 12:15:06 <alterego> But then, dialer is prestarted ;)
Jun 12 12:15:14 <alterego> So maybe it effects X startup time :D
Jun 12 12:16:32 <alterego> I've not noticed it though, so ..
Jun 12 12:17:51 * alterego contemplates more things to download.
Jun 12 12:17:59 <alterego> Whilst I have access to my parents broadband ;)
Jun 12 12:18:08 * Stskeeps watches qt5 build
Jun 12 12:18:11 <alterego> Ooo, latest meego tablet release.
Jun 12 12:18:48 <alterego> How's that stuff coming along Stskeeps ?
Jun 12 12:19:29 <Stskeeps> good
Jun 12 12:19:45 <Stskeeps> i had the minimal plugin (write to png files) working
Jun 12 12:19:47 <alterego> What is the correct target for exopc?
Jun 12 12:19:54 <alterego> is it pinetrail or oaktrail?
Jun 12 12:20:21 <ab> png is slow :(
Jun 12 12:20:31 <alterego> Cool
Jun 12 12:21:00 <alterego> pinetrail it is ..
Jun 12 12:21:34 <Stskeeps> ab, yeah, but first step, got eglfs and wayland too
Jun 12 12:22:04 <ab> Stskeeps, good!
Jun 12 12:22:40 <ab> hopefully there will be enough bright minds to continue imaging topics around Qt :)
Jun 12 12:22:46 * alterego googles eglfs
Jun 12 12:23:05 <Stskeeps> alterego: full screen egl basically
Jun 12 12:23:11 <alterego> Ah, right
Jun 12 12:23:42 <ab> alterego, it is not a file system :)
Jun 12 12:23:52 <alterego> That's why I was curious :D
Jun 12 12:24:12 * alterego wonders if there's a Qt5 ppa for ubuntu
Jun 12 12:29:05 <alterego> Stskeeps: what do I need to compile to get Qt5/SceneGraph?
Jun 12 12:30:05 <alterego> Ah, found a cool article.
Jun 12 12:43:40 <lcuk> ab png on which device?
Jun 12 12:46:45 <alterego> What does the P stand for?
Jun 12 12:49:31 <ShadowJK> the P in what
Jun 12 12:51:46 <lcuk> Stskeeps, alterego - the things about tracker and slowness when filled up - this is a global problem with lab apps, until the real data is included any app works well
Jun 12 12:58:19 <Venemo> [12:34] <thiago_home> Venemo: I thought roberto had added lambda support for 2.2 --> this is news to me!
Jun 12 13:05:00 <Venemo> thiago_home, that is definitely not the case
Jun 12 13:05:29 <Venemo> thiago_home, I use 2.2.0 and it definitely underlines lambdas and says, "undefined function"
Jun 12 13:05:39 <thiago_home> Venemo: ok
Jun 12 13:05:59 <Venemo> thiago_home, the bug is described in http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTCREATORBUG-4439
Jun 12 13:06:58 <Venemo> thiago_home, if someone really added this feature, it would be nice of you if you could please point me to a nightly or prerelease version that has it.
Jun 12 14:33:25 <Sage> Ok, so the exopc installation stalls before the "installing bootloader" comes to screen.
Jun 12 14:33:53 <Sage> At least this iamge workes: meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.0.90.1.20110523.3
Jun 12 14:34:28 <Sage> need to download few more images :)
Jun 12 14:34:32 <alterego> Oh, great, I downloaded that image earlier ..
Jun 12 14:34:54 <alterego> Is d.m.c running slow for you today?
Jun 12 14:34:59 <alterego> I'm getting < 300KB/s
Jun 12 14:35:02 <Sage> yes a bit slow
Jun 12 14:35:13 <alterego> Might try it through my server
Jun 12 14:36:58 <alterego> That's an old image,.
Jun 12 14:37:03 <alterego> Why not 0601?
Jun 12 14:37:16 <alterego> Oh, it doesn't exist ..
Jun 12 14:37:36 <Sage> http://pastie.org/2056645
Jun 12 14:38:10 <Sage> Next image to test: meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.0.90.2.20110531.84.img
Jun 12 14:38:28 <alterego> That's the one I'm downloading lnow
Jun 12 14:38:45 <alterego> I'm getting 8MB/s on my server
Jun 12 14:38:49 <alterego> Do you want me to stick it up for you?
Jun 12 14:39:00 <alterego> It'll be on my server in 40 seconds
Jun 12 14:39:08 <alterego> You should get a better dl rate I reckon.
Jun 12 14:39:11 <Sage> nah, I'm done in 5mins
Jun 12 14:39:20 <Sage> getting 800kb/s atm.
Jun 12 14:39:21 <alterego> m'kay
Jun 12 14:42:13 <alterego> Interesting, seems my parents internet connection is crappy atm.
Jun 12 14:44:04 <CosmoHill> alterego: ah I see, Tar 1.17 was the last to be licensed under GPL v2
Jun 12 14:44:50 <CosmoHill> why not use BSD tar if you want to avoid GPL v3?
Jun 12 14:45:30 <alterego> CosmoHill: why don't you ask on the ML :)
Jun 12 14:46:10 * CosmoHill goes to find the mailing list
Jun 12 14:46:34 <CosmoHill> there's quite a few
Jun 12 14:46:40 <ab> lcuk, there are no simd optimizations in libpng upstream anymore. The were no arm optimizations and intel ones were removed due to some licensing mess
Jun 12 14:46:55 <lcuk> oh deay me
Jun 12 14:46:59 <lcuk> deary*
Jun 12 14:47:10 <lcuk> ab, those optimsations really helped performance
Jun 12 14:47:26 <lcuk> lots and lots of apps need fast loading images
Jun 12 14:47:36 <ab> I know :)
Jun 12 14:47:43 <lcuk> and improvements there will improve loading time of practically every single app
Jun 12 14:47:44 <CosmoHill> meego-dev seems about right?
Jun 12 14:47:46 <ab> I've got jpeg loading to pretty decent levels
Jun 12 14:47:49 <lcuk> if only due to the icons!
Jun 12 14:47:57 <lcuk> nice!
Jun 12 14:48:11 <ab> and even open sourced what went into fremantle
Jun 12 14:48:19 <lcuk> lots of Contact avatars are stored as png nowadays I noticed
Jun 12 14:48:45 <lcuk> yeah I know, I saw the jpeg stuff last year when I was on fremantle duties
Jun 12 14:48:51 <ab> Linaro even wanted to use them in their long standing work on jpeg optimizations. Unfortunately, the end result is quite dumb.
Jun 12 14:49:00 <ab> lcuk, it is on gitorious now
Jun 12 14:49:09 <lcuk> I think I saw it
Jun 12 14:49:20 <lcuk> I was pondering using libquill for some things
Jun 12 14:49:25 <ab> all Linaro got is 20% improvement over stock libjpeg-turbo
Jun 12 14:49:36 <ab> where we've got 2x-3x
Jun 12 14:49:40 <lcuk> 20% is massive in optimisation terms though
Jun 12 14:49:51 <lcuk> :O even more so
Jun 12 14:50:00 <lcuk> holy heck ab, you have been busy :D
Jun 12 14:50:14 <ab> lcuk, yep, sort of. :)
Jun 12 14:50:35 <ab> a typical grid thumbnail loading now is under 1ms
Jun 12 14:50:51 <alterego> Avatar copying in my contacts stuff seems broken.
Jun 12 14:50:55 <lcuk> yeah I use libpng in liqbase and noticed improvements
Jun 12 14:50:56 <ab> unfortunately, not open source
Jun 12 14:50:59 <alterego> I think I might have to do something to the image data field ..
Jun 12 14:51:00 <lcuk> and libjpg *
Jun 12 14:51:18 <lcuk> alterego, that was the only thing I made work
Jun 12 14:51:26 <lcuk> I have had a users grid for ages, but it was static data
Jun 12 14:51:35 <lcuk> now on startup, it reads that "Exported contacts" folder
Jun 12 14:51:37 <alterego> My handset is saying the image data is corrupt, need to look into it.
Jun 12 14:51:39 <lcuk> and fills in live data
Jun 12 14:51:43 <lcuk> extracting the images on the fly
Jun 12 14:51:59 <lcuk> then runs base64 on them and loads from /tmp
Jun 12 14:52:01 <alterego> I also need to package up that app for you to use ;)
Jun 12 14:52:13 <lcuk> it needs to be integrated in the dailies
Jun 12 14:52:20 <alterego> Indeed
Jun 12 14:52:26 <alterego> I need to package it first though.
Jun 12 14:52:28 <lcuk> to mount that folder and import into meego n900-ce
Jun 12 14:52:37 * CosmoHill is confused by all the different mailing lists
Jun 12 14:52:44 <alterego> CosmoHill: meego-dev is right
Jun 12 14:52:48 <lcuk> CosmoHill, just signup for all of them
Jun 12 14:52:55 <CosmoHill> thanks alterego
Jun 12 14:53:01 <lcuk> including the #meego-food
Jun 12 14:53:01 <lcuk> :P
Jun 12 14:53:55 <lcuk> do I need a QApplication to make use of qtmobility?
Jun 12 14:54:07 <lcuk> ie, can I use the library without needing graphical qt?
Jun 12 14:54:22 <lcuk> so I could just use the mobility interfaces but some random unknown rendering toolkit
Jun 12 14:54:24 <ab> qcoreapplication in most cases is enough
Jun 12 14:54:52 * lcuk gets confused by qt build system so might have trouble
Jun 12 14:55:56 <alterego> Good morning DawnFoster
Jun 12 14:56:10 <DawnFoster> afternoon alterego
Jun 12 14:56:25 <CosmoHill> sent
Jun 12 14:56:26 <CosmoHill> hi DawnFoster
Jun 12 14:56:46 <DawnFoster> hey CosmoHill
Jun 12 14:56:50 <maligor> You'll need to add some annoying glue into it if you use a different gui
Jun 12 14:57:17 <alterego> lcuk: look at my app, I use mobility in a console app
Jun 12 14:57:35 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: btw, kudos for nominating people with clear merit in CO :)
Jun 12 14:58:02 <DawnFoster> Stskeeps: thanks! I'm probably missing someone
Jun 12 14:58:09 <lcuk> alterego, interesting
Jun 12 14:58:25 <lcuk> DawnFoster, where is the list?
Jun 12 14:58:30 <lcuk> and good morning
Jun 12 14:58:31 <DawnFoster> Stskeeps: and your presentation during the conference was what prompted me to get off my butt & get the CO organized again
Jun 12 14:58:40 <Stskeeps> :nod: happy to see it
Jun 12 14:58:59 <alterego> lcuk: https://gitorious.org/meego-projects/qtcontacts-vcard-import
Jun 12 14:59:05 <alterego> I've moved the repository btw ;)
Jun 12 14:59:09 <DawnFoster> lcuk: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Proposed_CO_Nominations_June2011
Jun 12 14:59:42 <DawnFoster> we have a meeting on Tuesday to talk about them before I take them for ratification to tsg http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings
Jun 12 15:00:26 <DawnFoster> and feel free to make suggestions for CO nominations at any time
Jun 12 15:00:35 <CosmoHill> alterego: I think my email has been caught in the spam filter
Jun 12 15:00:53 <DawnFoster> lcuk: Did you see that my cookbook is out now :) http://whatdawneats.com/2011/06/buy-the-cookbook-now/
Jun 12 15:00:57 <alterego> CosmoHill: give it time :P
Jun 12 15:01:15 <CosmoHill> well I did end my email with "are you looking for cheap car insurance?"
Jun 12 15:01:47 * Sage downloads yet another tablet image
Jun 12 15:05:47 <alterego> Sage: was that image crap?
Jun 12 15:07:12 <Sage> no that worked
Jun 12 15:07:17 <Sage> updated the pastie
Jun 12 15:07:45 <Sage> http://pastie.org/2056645
Jun 12 15:08:26 <Sage> so downloading 0602 now
Jun 12 15:09:32 <Sage> after that 0603 and 0606 if needed.
Jun 12 15:23:16 <Sage> alterego: ok so it breaks between meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.0.90.2.20110531.84.img and meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.0.90.2.20110602.81.img
Jun 12 15:24:00 <Stskeeps> kernel used in each is?
Jun 12 15:24:03 <Stskeeps> check pkgs
Jun 12 15:25:22 <phaeron> thiago_home: sorry was away. can I pm please ?
Jun 12 15:25:27 <thiago_home> phaeron: yes
Jun 12 15:30:06 <alterego> So 0531 works?
Jun 12 15:31:08 <Sage> https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18912
Jun 12 15:31:11 <MeeGoBot> Bug 18912 maj, Undecided, ---, chengwei.yang, NEW, Unable to install latest snapshots to exopc
Jun 12 15:32:29 <Sage> kernel-adaptation-pinetrail.i586 2.6.38.2-8.13 vs kernel-adaptation-pinetrail.i586 2.6.38.2-8.13 so the same
Jun 12 15:39:06 <Sage> what provides package installer-launch?
Jun 12 15:39:30 <Sage> ah, installer shell
Jun 12 15:46:11 <Sage> alterego: ^ if you are interested of that bug
Jun 12 15:47:25 <alterego> Thanks
Jun 12 15:58:42 <alterego> Now it's compiling qt3 support. URgh
Jun 12 15:58:51 <alterego> I don't even want Qt3 support.
Jun 12 16:10:07 <Vitna> someone know if nokia rm680 will have meego or harmanattan maemo 6
Jun 12 16:11:07 <maligor> you think they'd be at liberty to say
Jun 12 16:11:59 <Vitna> yes this isnt an information confidentially
Jun 12 16:13:31 <maligor> I never followed the harmanattan stuff, but I assumed it was just the nokia version of meego
Jun 12 16:13:40 <Vitna> there is some information that they are at liberty to say?
Jun 12 16:14:10 <Vitna> harmanattan is maemo not meego
Jun 12 16:14:15 <Vitna> as far as i know
Jun 12 16:17:52 <Vitna> there is some way for known some information about rm680(€€€)
Jun 12 16:19:02 <thiago_home> Vitna: any information about non-released products is confidential
Jun 12 16:19:08 <thiago_home> so you won't be getting it here
Jun 12 16:19:21 <alterego> It'll be running Harmattan, there's plenty of information on this.
Jun 12 16:19:25 <alterego> Why come here and ask?
Jun 12 16:19:42 <Vitna> because i am crazy
Jun 12 16:19:53 <Vitna> the wait is so frustrating
Jun 12 16:20:43 <maligor> the thing is tho, any actual devels who'd work on it couldn't talk about it atall
Jun 12 16:21:05 <Vitna> i tought someone want earn an extra and so can call me
Jun 12 16:21:19 <Vitna> but i am wrong
Jun 12 16:21:49 <SpeedEvil> And they can lose their job.
Jun 12 16:21:58 <SpeedEvil> And possibly be sued.
Jun 12 16:22:40 <Vitna> okok but nokia doesnt kill them
Jun 12 16:23:01 <Vitna> how nokia can known who is the leaker?
Jun 12 16:23:15 <SpeedEvil> No, they don't.
Jun 12 16:23:23 <maligor> wiki says harmattan is maemo base with meego ux
Jun 12 16:23:24 <SpeedEvil> They outsource NDA assassinations.
Jun 12 16:23:38 <berndhs> well, it they leak it here, it's pretty much public knowledge who it was :)
Jun 12 16:23:43 <maligor> so I guess it's not really meego as such
Jun 12 16:23:52 <SpeedEvil> Vitna: For example - you may be a nokia employee
Jun 12 16:24:11 <maligor> the nokia inquisition department
Jun 12 16:24:23 <Vitna> yes i am the killer for the leaker
Jun 12 16:24:31 <Vitna> you have uncovered me
Jun 12 16:24:35 <Vitna> :)
Jun 12 16:24:47 <SpeedEvil> Nobody expects the Symbian inquisition!
Jun 12 16:25:16 <Vitna> i hope only that mrflop decide to sell this damn phone before the end of world in 2012
Jun 12 16:25:47 <Vitna> but you are all meego devs?
Jun 12 16:25:54 <alterego> Ah, now it's compiling the examples :)
Jun 12 16:26:22 <iekku> Vitna, not all of us :P
Jun 12 16:26:49 <Vitna> good i am not
Jun 12 16:27:54 <maligor> I'm not sure how to take that.. is it good not being a meego devel or good that there are people here who aren't meego devels just like you? ;P
Jun 12 16:28:10 <iekku> but like thiago_home said, if there isn't any released device, there isn't any information
Jun 12 16:28:15 <iekku> only rumours
Jun 12 16:28:48 <iekku> and rumours usually does only harm
Jun 12 16:28:52 <iekku> so let's avoid them
Jun 12 16:29:28 <Vitna> but you(all) think that ther will be a released device(handset) before the end of world?
Jun 12 16:29:50 <maligor> They did release dnf before the end of the world too
Jun 12 16:30:05 <Vitna> what is dnf
Jun 12 16:30:10 <maligor> heh
Jun 12 16:30:26 <maligor> a computer game that was developed for 14 years
Jun 12 16:30:39 <Vitna> oh good
Jun 12 16:30:48 <Vitna> is like pandora?
Jun 12 16:31:00 <maligor> you mean openpandora?
Jun 12 16:31:05 <Vitna> yeh
Jun 12 16:31:23 <maligor> I'm not sure how they'd compare, it was a high profile title
Jun 12 16:31:47 <Vitna> it isnt totally community driven
Jun 12 16:31:48 <maligor> openpandora is a low profile project
Jun 12 16:31:48 <Vitna> ?
Jun 12 16:31:51 <maligor> no
Jun 12 16:32:06 <maligor> dnf aka Duke Nukem Forever
Jun 12 16:32:21 <Vitna> duke nuken is an old game
Jun 12 16:32:37 <maligor> yes, they made a sequel to it, took 14 years
Jun 12 16:32:55 <maligor> I wonder how much money they spent on it
Jun 12 16:33:50 <maligor> I do hope the nokia phone won't turn out similar
Jun 12 16:34:40 <Vitna> i hope only that nokia phone exist
Jun 12 16:34:45 <Vitna> :0
Jun 12 16:34:58 <Vitna> :D
Jun 12 16:35:30 <Vitna> why there isnt a meego-games channel?
Jun 12 16:35:37 <maligor> I'm sure there's prototype devices of it
Jun 12 16:35:53 <Vitna> yes i know u have it
Jun 12 16:36:07 <maligor> no, I don't work for nokia
Jun 12 16:36:30 <Vitna> yes and i am not here ;)
Jun 12 16:36:57 <alterego> There is at least one Harmattan device, which will be released soon
Jun 12 16:37:10 <Vitna> i hope before of soon
Jun 12 16:37:23 <maligor> the harmattan wristwatch!
Jun 12 16:37:35 <Vitna> wristwatch?
Jun 12 16:38:08 <iekku> Vitna, to be exact, there's one nokia phone with meego already
Jun 12 16:38:19 <iekku> Vitna, you can run meego on the N900
Jun 12 16:38:25 <Vitna> yep
Jun 12 16:38:29 <maligor> for a limited value of run
Jun 12 16:38:31 <Vitna> i used DE
Jun 12 16:38:45 <Vitna> but now on microsd i have nitdroid
Jun 12 16:39:49 <Vitna> someone know if this damn rm680 will run deb or rpm?
Jun 12 16:40:06 <Vitna> we have to know for develop application
Jun 12 16:40:19 <maligor> why?
Jun 12 16:40:29 <maligor> packaging takes about... a day
Jun 12 16:40:47 <Vitna> ok i can develop in qml
Jun 12 16:40:51 <Vitna> ?
Jun 12 16:41:10 <Vitna> or i have to dwnload meego sdk
Jun 12 16:41:51 <Vitna> actually i use qt sdk 1.1 for s3 and maemo
Jun 12 16:42:10 <Vitna> also the screen resolution
Jun 12 16:42:15 <Vitna> is a mistery
Jun 12 16:42:41 <maligor> if it does use the meego handset ux, then yes, it would have to have qml
Jun 12 16:42:51 <Vitna> if someone work in nokia can tell mrflop that he is a stupid incompetent?
Jun 12 16:44:19 <iekku> Vitna, that road doesn't take anyone to anywhere
Jun 12 16:44:39 <Vitna> i think when rm680 will be in market there is not apps because mrflop don tell us anithing on device
Jun 12 16:45:45 <dragunov11> hey, am having build issues with meego 1.2
Jun 12 16:47:01 <Vitna> byebye i have broken your ball too much sorry
Jun 12 16:47:21 <dragunov11> while compiling, i get this - Invalid configuration `i686-pc-linux-'
Jun 12 16:48:04 <dragunov11> any way i can fix that?
Jun 12 16:49:49 <dragunov11> ok, got the solution :P .
Jun 12 17:38:07 <bash`> hi all
Jun 12 17:38:14 <bash`> where can I download madde-0.7.63.tar.gz?
Jun 12 17:43:14 <sofar> unpack the src.rpm
Jun 12 17:43:24 <bash`> sofar: hi, si the only way?
Jun 12 17:43:26 <bash`> is*
Jun 12 17:44:49 <sofar> http://download.meego.com/live/Tools:/SDK:/Host/Trunk/src/
Jun 12 17:45:12 <bash`> yes then
Jun 12 17:45:15 <bash`> ok thanks
Jun 12 18:34:08 <lcuk> a question about the ideapad
Jun 12 18:34:31 <lcuk> I can only seem to get VGA-out working with transfer display to monitor
Jun 12 18:34:39 <lcuk> I want to keep the laptop lit
Jun 12 18:34:44 <lcuk> but show the contents on the vga
Jun 12 18:34:50 <lcuk> a clone mode so to speak
Jun 12 18:35:07 <npm> what happens when you hit fn-display multiple times?
Jun 12 18:35:58 <lcuk> flips between internal/external
Jun 12 18:37:21 <lcuk> and of course that is not good for presenting touch app
Jun 12 18:37:31 <lcuk> since on external, the screen resolution changes
Jun 12 18:37:47 <lcuk> but the touchscreen sensor is then working blind
Jun 12 18:38:32 <npm> i think you'll have to edit /etc/X11/ and frob your server config
Jun 12 18:39:19 <npm> xorg.conf(5)
Jun 12 18:40:22 <npm> setup Screen sections and Display sections as needed
Jun 12 18:40:55 <npm> you may have to find some impossible mode where you can drive both your onboard and offscreen monitors at same rate
Jun 12 18:41:11 <lcuk> npm
Jun 12 18:41:17 <lcuk> xvideo can technically do that
Jun 12 18:41:28 <lcuk> and on other laptops they stretch too
Jun 12 18:41:36 <lcuk> for mirrored mode video out
Jun 12 18:41:44 <lcuk> but it is the ideapad itself that wont
Jun 12 18:41:54 * lcuk can happily use n900 instead :)
Jun 12 18:41:59 <npm> it's really just a matter of copying some existing X config that works on the ideapad from somebody else that's geeked out all the display modes
Jun 12 18:42:36 <lcuk> then were do I find x config geeks who also hang out around meego and who have ideapads to test
Jun 12 18:42:43 <lcuk> s/were/where/
Jun 12 18:42:44 <infobot> lcuk meant: then where do I find x config geeks who also hang out around meego and who have ideapads to test
Jun 12 18:44:05 <npm> it's really just a matter of googling... the issues are the exact same for any distro
Jun 12 18:44:08 <npm> that use X
Jun 12 18:45:16 <npm> chances are you could drop a live-image of fedora on it and see if the display does something sensible (it probably will) and then copy the config if it works.
Jun 12 18:45:19 <lcuk> alterego, ping another question: sleeping arrangements for saturday
Jun 12 18:45:56 <lcuk> npm I gather ubuntu would be the same
Jun 12 18:46:22 <npm> yes, but it depends on the rev.
Jun 12 18:46:57 <lcuk> shudder
Jun 12 18:49:40 <npm> speaking of outputs, has anybody figured out how to get the digital audio out on the HDMI --> SPDIF?
Jun 12 18:50:57 <npm> i guess i could just have ALSA talk to 'hdmi:CARD=Intel,DEV=0' but is there a mini-hdmi->spdif converter?
Jun 12 18:51:55 <npm> that would give two PCI-based stereo pairs to work with, one for headphone monitors, one for mains.... ( gabrbedd ? )
Jun 12 18:52:17 <npm> ^^ ExoPC
Jun 12 19:26:43 <gabrbedd> npm: We usually just run the HDMI to a TV and use that as the 2nd audio out.  I don't know of any cables to split out just the audio from the HDMI.
Jun 12 19:26:55 <gabrbedd> npm: Indamixx calls it "HDMI DJ's"
Jun 12 19:30:38 <lcuk> aww lenovo has no hdmi out
Jun 12 19:30:59 <Stskeeps> yeah, sadly
Jun 12 19:31:31 <Julienf> Hey guys.
Jun 12 19:31:32 <lcuk> not that it matters, as stated, n900 has decent video out when it works
Jun 12 19:31:36 <Stskeeps> evening julien
Jun 12 19:31:50 <Julienf> Just trying a client on my phone
Jun 12 19:32:46 <npm> gabrbedd: wow, the exopc screen works way better for mixxx than the lenovo
Jun 12 19:32:46 <Julienf> Really need to set up a screen on an ssh. Not convenient at all from mobile otherwise..
Jun 12 19:33:01 <npm> i can actually hit the crossfader on first attempt
Jun 12 19:34:25 <npm> gabredd i'll have to look into a converter.... and actually, for DJing, I like running the mains digitally into a mastering processor/leveler/compressor
Jun 12 19:35:05 <npm> which also serves as a high quality D/A into the mains (aka no computer noise being amplified onto 10Kw soundsystem :-) )
Jun 12 19:37:31 <Stskeeps> i've reached a level of existence where i might actually have patches to contribute to qt
Jun 12 19:37:39 * Stskeeps is a bit scared by that fact
Jun 12 19:41:19 <andre__> Stskeeps: congrats! I will hereby start to actually consider your opinions in this project. ;-)
Jun 12 19:47:57 <alterego> Heh
Jun 12 19:49:04 <lcuk> Stskeeps, I thought Qt became self aware a number of months ago?
Jun 12 19:50:15 <lcuk> Stskeeps, which area are the patches in then?
Jun 12 19:52:11 * w00t still needs to verify windows autotest results before he can submit his latest patch
Jun 12 19:52:18 <alterego> Hello julian, how's Finland?
Jun 12 19:52:50 <w00t> also I am never moving house ever, ever again
Jun 12 19:52:53 <alterego> That good aye ..
Jun 12 19:52:58 <alterego> Heh
Jun 12 19:53:47 <lcuk> w00t, where are you now?
Jun 12 19:53:58 <w00t> hull, right now
Jun 12 19:54:11 <w00t> just started on the packing/cleaning/throwing old crap out the past few days
Jun 12 19:55:02 <gabrbedd> npm: Yeah, the digitizer on the ideapad is not very responsive.  I can't even use it as a virtual keyboard controller.
Jun 12 19:55:45 <gabrbedd> npm: Also, the idea with HDMI audio outs... is that your video card serves as a 2nd sound card.
Jun 12 19:56:17 <gabrbedd> npm: In the case of N450 Atoms (pineview), the graphics card does not have the HDMI stuff in it.
Jun 12 19:57:41 <gabrbedd> npm: Thus... pinetrail does not have HDMI out of the box.  And if you ever see one, it's not /real/ HDMI.  It's either VGA-to-HDMI, or they've added some special hardware, or it's not really pinetrail.
Jun 12 19:59:00 <lcuk> I want to get a high resolution dual mode laptop like ideapad
Jun 12 19:59:33 <lcuk> something to sit on the desk between me and my keyboard
Jun 12 19:59:46 * lcuk has n900 there most of the time
Jun 12 20:07:33 <alterego> What about 4 N900s :P
Jun 12 20:07:52 <alterego> lcuk: you know you inverted AR demo?
Jun 12 20:07:59 <alterego> your ..
Jun 12 20:08:12 <lcuk> yes
Jun 12 20:08:35 <alterego> Do you use that for anything practical. I'm just thinking, it'd be pretty cool in a looser context switching type setup
Jun 12 20:09:06 <alterego> If I could use it to pan note screens in conboy or something, that's be neat :)
Jun 12 20:09:24 <lcuk> alterego, I put it to one side for a while, last I played with was using it as a mouse
Jun 12 20:09:26 <lcuk> the n900 :)
Jun 12 20:09:37 <alterego> Heh
Jun 12 20:09:49 <alterego> How accurate is it?
Jun 12 20:10:04 <lcuk> you seen the videos
Jun 12 20:10:09 <lcuk> download the app and see for yourself
Jun 12 20:10:12 <lcuk> you need 2 n900s
Jun 12 20:10:27 <lcuk> it uses one to project the sensor balls
Jun 12 20:10:32 <lcuk> the other to position based on them
Jun 12 20:10:49 <alterego> Oh, didn't realise you used two :)
Jun 12 20:10:52 <lcuk> people suggested using head mounted leds
Jun 12 20:11:12 <alterego> Heh, it'd move too much.
Jun 12 20:11:14 <lcuk> but I spoke with professor phil from manchest university who has a really good facial tracking system
Jun 12 20:11:25 <lcuk> not really, it is practical actually to consider it
Jun 12 20:11:30 <lcuk> wall mounted units
Jun 12 20:11:40 <lcuk> that know which way you are coming into view from
Jun 12 20:11:50 <lcuk> would know if you were walking out of the house to work
Jun 12 20:11:55 <lcuk> or home at the end of a day
Jun 12 20:12:25 <lcuk> are amusing ideas that crop up from the calendar and where you would mount it in your home
Jun 12 20:12:35 <alterego> I saw a really good recognition system a month ago, "predator" I think
Jun 12 20:12:49 <SpeedEvil> To catch a predator?
Jun 12 20:12:55 <lcuk> sounds comforting
Jun 12 20:13:06 <SpeedEvil> Naah - it's a GPL thingy
Jun 12 20:13:09 <SpeedEvil> visual
Jun 12 20:13:23 <SpeedEvil> I need to chase that up, biut it got buried in my stack.
Jun 12 20:13:55 <SpeedEvil> http://www.i-programmer.info/news/105-artificial-intelligence/2310-predator-better-than-kinect.html
Jun 12 20:13:56 <SpeedEvil> tat
Jun 12 20:13:59 <SpeedEvil> ^h
Jun 12 20:14:01 <alterego> I've just built Qt5 scenegraph and qml2 :)
Jun 12 20:14:14 <lcuk> alterego, the same build you started yesterday?
Jun 12 20:14:14 <alterego> Gonna play with that a bit over the next week.
Jun 12 20:14:21 <alterego> It was today :P
Jun 12 20:14:36 <alterego> It built in about 4 hours,
Jun 12 20:14:38 <lcuk> alterego, planning anything fun for next week?
Jun 12 20:15:32 <alterego> Yeah, thinking of doing something network transparent user interfaces.
Jun 12 20:15:57 <SpeedEvil> alterego: http://projectiris.co.uk/ seen?
Jun 12 20:16:02 <SpeedEvil> Iris recongition
Jun 12 20:16:06 <Jaffa> alterego: Building X network transparency on top of Qt 5 & Wayland. Hmm ;-)
Jun 12 20:16:34 <lcuk> network transparency?
Jun 12 20:16:37 <alterego> I'm going to develop a UX that shows local apps, but when you move into a network, like home, or work, it picks up apps/services provided by other devices on the network.
Jun 12 20:17:15 <julienf> alterego: that's a great idea!
Jun 12 20:17:40 <alterego> The idea is you have a device, that gets services, apps and policies from an upstream root provider (in the future this would be you operator)
Jun 12 20:18:10 <alterego> But it's obviously a large project. So I'm going to start in a more local manner.
Jun 12 20:18:13 <lcuk> I am going to teach the world to read.  One word at a time.
Jun 12 20:18:20 <alterego> :)
Jun 12 20:18:55 <lcuk> jake knows the pieces of the time now
Jun 12 20:19:02 <lcuk> and can just glance over and tell the time
Jun 12 20:19:10 * lcuk proud of him :)
Jun 12 20:19:19 <alterego> So you get this pyramid, cascading service/app infrastructure. Walk in to a shopping mall and you can access info on all the deals in all the shops.
Jun 12 20:19:39 <alterego> Order a ticket at the cinema, the use NFC to get into the theater.
Jun 12 20:19:50 <lcuk> shopping malls and wireless data
Jun 12 20:19:54 <lcuk> are normally a problem
Jun 12 20:20:11 <lcuk> "tracy get me some shoes"   "sorry cant hear you, breaking up"
Jun 12 20:20:17 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: wear asbestos underwear when you join next hacker congress
Jun 12 20:20:38 <alterego> DocScrutinizer: ?
Jun 12 20:21:09 <alterego> lcuk: I'm just throwing out ideas of how this project could be utilised.
Jun 12 20:21:37 <DocScrutinizer> alterego: I bet you'll beat M$ and Google and facebook on everybody's ranking of most hatred directions the IT could develop
Jun 12 20:21:42 <alterego> But basically, the work/home network specific apps/services is the domain I'm going to be working on at Hactivate
Jun 12 20:23:01 <alterego> Having my phone app accessible on the exo, on my tv and on my computer.
Jun 12 20:23:02 * lcuk expects to do little in the way of code 
Jun 12 20:23:23 <alterego> That's one idea anyway :)
Jun 12 20:26:34 <alterego> julienf: how's finland?
Jun 12 20:26:48 <julienf> alterego: it's hot! :D
Jun 12 20:27:03 <alterego> It's pissing it down here,
Jun 12 20:27:16 <alterego> First raink we've had in the UK for months
Jun 12 20:27:24 <alterego> At least it feels like that.
Jun 12 20:28:50 <julienf> I think it would be needed in Finland too
Jun 12 20:28:52 <alterego> julienf: any chance of an angry birds demo for N900 Community Edition? :)
Jun 12 20:29:04 * alterego grins menacingly.
Jun 12 20:29:32 <julienf> alterego: I think we could do something about that. But might need to wait for a week or so. We're at max capacity right now.
Jun 12 20:30:12 <alterego> That would be amazing :)
Jun 12 20:30:33 <alterego> Would certainly make our summer release a lot shinier :)
Jun 12 20:31:18 <julienf> when are you aiming to release?
Jun 12 20:31:33 <alterego> 21st I think.
Jun 12 20:32:21 <julienf> this month?
Jun 12 20:32:24 <alterego> Yeah
Jun 12 20:32:31 <julienf> hmm..
Jun 12 20:32:39 <julienf> that might be a bit difficult..
Jun 12 20:32:40 <Jaffa> alterego: Sounds like a cross between Sun's Jini (network transparent devices protocol) and the "dream" of web services & service discovery.
Jun 12 20:32:41 <alterego> So it is quite a tall order
Jun 12 20:32:51 <Jaffa> alterego: But still cool to aim for :-)
Jun 12 20:33:03 <julienf> sending an email to our dev to ask
Jun 12 20:33:04 <alterego> Jaffa: yes, it's certainly inspired by Tim Bernes-Lee
Jun 12 20:33:15 <alterego> julienf: I really appreciate it :)
Jun 12 20:33:25 <SpeedEvil> TBL hands out occasionally on another channel
Jun 12 20:33:57 <Jaffa> alterego: Just build re-package Chromium from build.meego.com and provide an icon which launches http://chrome.angrybirds.com/
Jun 12 20:34:04 <SpeedEvil> hangs
Jun 12 20:34:13 <alterego> Hah
Jun 12 20:34:19 <Jaffa> julienf: BTW, that HTML5 implementation is truly astounding. Kudos to y'all.
Jun 12 20:34:21 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: you have no idea how @%@%^ chromium is to port
Jun 12 20:34:38 <julienf> Jaffa: thanks. Only the beginning :)
Jun 12 20:34:39 <alterego> We've already tried chromium, not sure it even built.
Jun 12 20:34:41 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: Doesn't OBS make it easy? ;-p
Jun 12 20:35:01 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: Source goes in, binaries for multiple platforms & architectures comes out? ;-)
Jun 12 20:35:46 <w00t> Jaffa: provided the source is designed for multiple architectures..
Jun 12 20:35:58 <SpeedEvil> IME source goes in, errors I don't understand come out.
Jun 12 20:36:35 <DocScrutinizer> hah
Jun 12 20:38:42 <Jaffa> w00t: Indeed, something I'm very aware of but has always been skirted around in MeeGo circles IMHO
Jun 12 20:39:05 <Jaffa> w00t: c.f. points about some of the futility of the original aims of Compliance
Jun 12 20:43:41 <julienf> does anyone here know someone who could help with kernel and driver stuff?
Jun 12 20:44:18 <lcuk> Jaffa, how would you change compliance then?
Jun 12 20:44:30 <lcuk> since in your eyes the original aims are not met
Jun 12 20:47:15 <berndhs> he didn't say the aims have not been met :)
Jun 12 20:47:16 <Jaffa> lcuk: See the video from Dublin when I proposed *some* changes; and the mailing lists at the time when I said if Compliance's aim was not to guarantee a stable platform for developers, but to provide assurance to consumers about being able to take a compliant app and run it on their complaint system, it wouldn't work.
Jun 12 20:48:05 <Jaffa> And compliance *seems* more about the former now, which is fine.
Jun 12 20:48:49 <lol_> lol
Jun 12 20:49:00 <lol_> hi guys
Jun 12 20:49:00 <julienf> Jaffa: both are needed. Think the later can be achieved if you have the former?
Jun 12 20:49:12 <lol_> i have ask
Jun 12 20:49:28 <lcuk> Jaffa, would it make more sense to try and outline the policies and improvements into one place?
Jun 12 20:49:39 <lol_> when buy nokia n9 ?
Jun 12 20:49:41 <lcuk> I mean, the tsg would have to vote on this
Jun 12 20:49:52 <lcuk> and it would be helpful to put up a candidacy document?
Jun 12 20:49:54 <SpeedEvil> lol_: After it's available only - maybe.
Jun 12 20:50:02 <SpeedEvil> lol_: Nobody here is telling.
Jun 12 20:50:10 <ShadowJK> It doesn't exist as far as we know. :P
Jun 12 20:50:10 <lol_> ok thanks
Jun 12 20:51:06 <Jaffa> julienf: Doubtful. Because "Compliance" is too simplistic, even with the Profile overlays. See recent talk about "fat" RPMs, Chromium not being able to be built on ARM, screen sizes etc.
Jun 12 20:51:49 <Jaffa> lcuk: Two points - yes, the points were made in multiple places, and I tried to start a dialogue about it but Compliance is currently pretty unimportant compared with having hardware & apps (IMHO). Certainly IRC isn't going to be a third place.
Jun 12 20:52:17 <lol_> i like development in meego
Jun 12 20:52:43 <Jaffa> lcuk: Secondly, candidacy document? That suggests a) there's a process for TSG membership and b) I'm in the process of putting myself forward for it (and c) that I'm going to write such a document whilst on holiday)
Jun 12 20:53:00 <lol_> good web: http://appdeveloper.intel.com/es-es/meego
Jun 12 20:53:17 <lcuk> Jaffa, on the community page DawnFoster has you penciled in for twg
Jun 12 20:53:19 <lcuk> tsg
Jun 12 20:53:21 <Jaffa> lcuk: Such a document *may* start from http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2011/05/28/meego_conference_keynote_how_it_should_v of course ;-)
Jun 12 20:53:42 <Jaffa> lcuk: mikhas added that yesterday; but I think Stskeeps is right - it's not the right page.
Jun 12 20:53:57 <Jaffa> lcuk: That's for the CO down, not the CO "up"
Jun 12 20:53:58 <lcuk> just talking Jaffa, just assume that anyone that asks you would be trying to help you flesh out such a thing
Jun 12 20:54:14 <Jaffa> lcuk: thanks
Jun 12 20:54:20 <Jaffa> Bed time now, though ;-)
Jun 12 20:54:25 * lcuk nods
Jun 12 20:54:34 <julienf> Jaffa: good night :)
Jun 12 20:54:58 <lol_> good niht
Jun 12 20:56:27 <arfoll> adding meego1.2 repo on pub.build.meego.com makes a meego_trunk_standard repo. that's kinda ugly no? shouldn't it be calling it meego_1.2?
Jun 12 21:00:23 <lbt> Jaffa: quick ping
Jun 12 21:02:25 <lol_> bye
Jun 12 21:43:15 <lcuk> w00t, :)
Jun 12 21:43:28 <w00t> hmm?
Jun 12 21:43:39 <lcuk> remember you saying "if you keep the background when you zoom into the playground"
Jun 12 21:44:08 <alterego> lcuk: was that onion sketch animation thing my idea?
Jun 12 21:44:33 <alterego> I started writing my own for maemo a while ago, think I remember talking to you about it :)
Jun 12 21:44:34 * w00t has a goldfish brain, and thus, doesn't remember
Jun 12 21:45:02 <lcuk> no, it was jusii makinen when we met up and discussed liqbase for the first ever time
Jun 12 21:45:10 <lcuk> s/jusii/jussi/
Jun 12 21:45:11 <infobot> lcuk meant: no, it was jussi makinen when we met up and discussed liqbase for the first ever time
Jun 12 21:45:53 <lcuk> at the 2008 maemo summit I believe
Jun 12 21:47:11 <lcuk> w00t, http://liqbase.net/liq.20110612_224435.liqbase-playground.scr.png     http://liqbase.net/liq.20110612_224256.ciroclock_minutes_12h_time.scr.png
Jun 12 21:47:31 <lcuk> it now does that by default if the app does not provide its own background
Jun 12 21:48:55 <lcuk> a much more pleasant slick experience when you zoom into it
Jun 12 21:49:21 <w00t> good
Jun 12 21:50:07 <lcuk> surprised I got the math correct at first attempt
Jun 12 21:50:23 <lcuk> yesterday my head was stressing about a similar streamlined issue
Jun 12 21:52:05 <lcuk> alterego, I am mostly going over historical notes
Jun 12 21:52:18 <lcuk> and just ticking off the simpler ones
Jun 12 21:52:24 <lcuk> and planning the complex ones
Jun 12 21:54:43 <alterego> Cool
Jun 12 21:56:02 <lcuk> it actually is a really nice upgrade
Jun 12 21:56:03 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liq.20110612_225308.tagcloud_system.scr.png
Jun 12 21:56:28 <lcuk> tagclouds uptill now were black and white, now the zoom process really is just looking closer at the whole thing
Jun 12 21:56:31 * lcuk impressed himself
Jun 12 22:09:57 <alterego> Wow, this scene graph stuff is hawt ..
Jun 12 22:13:35 <gabrbedd> alterego: do tell.
Jun 12 22:14:09 <gabrbedd> alterego: erm... you've got a blog now, right?  Write a blog about it! :-)
Jun 12 22:17:13 <berndhs> i start writing blogs every now and then. Then I look at the stats of how many people read them.
Jun 12 22:19:41 <lcuk> I should have a blog really
Jun 12 22:19:55 <alterego> I should have a blog really.
Jun 12 22:19:58 <lcuk> but that has other issues
Jun 12 22:20:09 <alterego> I've yet to setup blog.rubyx.co.uk
Jun 12 22:20:15 <alterego> Might do it tuesday.
Jun 12 22:20:50 <lcuk> mine would have to incorporate sketches :)
Jun 12 22:21:24 <lcuk> I nearly wrote one a long time ago
Jun 12 22:21:25 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liqbase_net_preview.png
Jun 12 22:22:22 <alterego> Heh
Jun 12 22:23:15 * CosmoHill applauds apple for screwing over his dad as well
Jun 12 22:23:53 <CosmoHill> PPC support was dropped in Leopard and Lion drops Intel Core support
Jun 12 22:24:01 <CosmoHill> so you need a 64bit intel to use apple
Jun 12 22:25:11 <sofar> business as usual?
Jun 12 22:25:12 <berndhs> if apple wants to do everything in the cloud, what do the need a CPU for ?
Jun 12 22:25:28 <berndhs> sell smart terminals
Jun 12 22:25:46 <alterego> That is shockingly lame
Jun 12 22:26:22 <alterego> Now I've got glsl in qml2 I can come up with some super effects :)
Jun 12 22:26:40 <alterego> My first will be blurring
Jun 12 22:29:00 <CosmoHill> my dad bought a top end mac mini with an Intel Core Duo and can't upgrade any more
Jun 12 22:30:17 * lcuk heads back to #liqbase then bed, \o
Jun 12 22:31:04 <alterego> yeah, bed tine for me also.
Jun 12 22:31:07 <alterego> time ..
Jun 12 22:31:11 <alterego> g'night folks
Jun 12 23:23:09 <s3cz0n3> Anybody have any suggestions for bringing an N810 WiMax back to life with a creative mod?
Jun 12 23:23:39 <SpeedEvil> s3cz0n3: how doesn't it work?
Jun 12 23:24:23 <s3cz0n3> it works, i meant in a figurative sense as maemo seems a bit tired imo
Jun 12 23:27:09 <SpeedEvil> I vaguely recall a community based refresh for the 810
Jun 12 23:27:35 <SpeedEvil> As far as I'm aware there are no projects to put meego on it - wander over to #maemo I guess
Jun 12 23:55:26 <soreau> Is it possible to run meego on a desktop pc?
Jun 12 23:58:01 <CosmoHill> one sec
Jun 12 23:58:26 <CosmoHill> supported processors?
Jun 12 23:58:50 <CosmoHill> soreau: what processor and graphics card do you have?
Jun 12 23:59:30 <soreau> CosmoHill: Where can I find what the minimum is?
Jun 12 23:59:43 <CosmoHill> http://wiki.meego.com/Supported_Processors
Jun 13 00:00:54 <soreau> Why the high specifications? Or some support just isn't implemented?
Jun 13 00:01:13 <CosmoHill> it requires SSSE3?
Jun 13 00:01:16 * CosmoHill removes the ?
Jun 13 00:03:15 <soreau> I see
Jun 13 00:42:00 <user0> hello.
Jun 13 00:43:12 * user0 looks around
Jun 13 00:46:14 * gabrbedd stares at user0
Jun 13 00:49:28 * user0 takes out his knife in fear!
Jun 13 00:49:46 <berndhs> i'm making good progress with my discrete event simulation lib, and forget why i'm doing this
Jun 13 00:52:50 <gabrbedd> berndhs: too subtle?
Jun 13 00:53:14 <berndhs> no there was a reason that I'm writing it, honest
Jun 13 00:53:21 <berndhs> i just dont know what it was
Jun 13 00:53:54 <user0> :S
Jun 13 00:53:58 <gabrbedd> what does it... do?
Jun 13 00:54:15 <berndhs> it does events and entities and such
Jun 13 00:54:36 <berndhs> it will be able to simulate CPUs and things like that
Jun 13 00:54:43 <berndhs> but that's not what I want it for
Jun 13 00:54:53 <berndhs> it was something else
Jun 13 00:55:39 <gabrbedd> To understand women.
Jun 13 00:56:02 <berndhs> that's overly optimistic
Jun 13 00:56:27 <berndhs> i can be ambitious, but not as bad as that
Jun 13 01:12:08 <npm> is there any reason why i shouldn't do this on the ExoPC when plugged in --  "echo "performance" > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor ; echo "performance" > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpufreq/scaling_governor '
Jun 13 01:13:57 <npm> hopefully i didn't sign anything about not changing the CPU clock rate
Jun 13 01:15:03 <berndhs> perhaps you want to watch the temperature sensors after you do that
Jun 13 01:15:26 <berndhs> actually I would watch them before too, for comparison
Jun 13 01:15:27 <npm> there are none loaded on exopc and i haven't figured out how to
Jun 13 01:16:50 <npm> on ideapad, the temps don't seem too bad
Jun 13 01:18:38 <npm> wish the proximity sensor was actually useful on a netbook/tablet -- to allow it to switch to full-speed when you're using it and it's plugged in
Jun 13 01:19:36 <npm> when using wireless (pig that it is) running at full cpu speed really ups the xfer rate
Jun 13 01:20:00 <berndhs> does the proximity sensor respond to large insects ?
Jun 13 01:21:39 <npm> no it just responds to your thumb as you attempt to power cycle it
Jun 13 01:21:42 <npm> :-/
Jun 13 01:21:53 <npm> but then again, i'm all thumbs
Jun 13 01:33:51 <gabrbedd> npm: You usually don't have to worry about core meltdowns.
Jun 13 01:34:21 <gabrbedd> npm: However, thermal cycles on the board are something to consider.
Jun 13 01:34:59 <gabrbedd> npm: That said, in lieu of a good userspace freq daemon for audio... we always set it to performance.
Jun 13 01:35:30 <berndhs> temperature is also a measure of CPU load :)
Jun 13 01:36:36 <gabrbedd> Right.  What I was getting at, though... is that failure won't be a singular event.  It'll happen slowly over time.
Jun 13 01:36:46 <gabrbedd> And running the CPU hotter will hasten that day.
Jun 13 01:37:00 <berndhs> oh certainly
Jun 13 01:39:15 <npm> well these are supposed to self destruct in a puff of smoke in three years, right?
Jun 13 01:39:32 <berndhs> look at the warrantee, it will tell you
Jun 13 01:39:48 <npm> i'm talking about the intel contract we signed
Jun 13 01:43:15 <SpeedEvil> In some cases chip datasheets specifically say that running flat out will age the chip.
Jun 13 01:43:20 <SpeedEvil> For example, the SoC in the n900
Jun 13 01:43:56 <npm> it'll age the display first by giving it a white blob
Jun 13 01:45:05 <npm> visible only in browser w/ all white background
Jun 13 01:45:23 <SpeedEvil> In the above case - not.
Jun 13 01:46:06 <npm> no i was talking about the n900 actually... running meego on it for a while gave it the whiteblob
Jun 13 01:46:38 <npm> http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=974510
Jun 13 01:47:05 <SpeedEvil> I really doubt that's possible.
Jun 13 01:47:09 <npm> for some reason that's what google gave me intead of meamo.org
Jun 13 01:47:22 <SpeedEvil> The screen is not thermally connected to the motherboard.
Jun 13 01:47:28 <npm> it happened to mine, it seems to be happening to others
Jun 13 01:47:30 <SpeedEvil> They are totally isolated.
Jun 13 01:47:35 <npm> it's close enough that it gets hot
Jun 13 01:47:37 <SpeedEvil> (thermally)
Jun 13 01:48:22 <npm> that's weird that maemo.org forums are at internettablettalk.com
Jun 13 01:48:52 <npm> but anyways that's what i got from maemo.org forums and a 20 page thread that disagrees with you
Jun 13 01:49:18 <SpeedEvil> No, it doesn't.
Jun 13 01:49:34 <SpeedEvil> It says there are spots - which I don't disagree with.
Jun 13 01:49:48 <DocScrutinizer> npm: (Itt) legacy
Jun 13 01:49:56 <SpeedEvil> The problem is that the heated components are in the back of the device, and the screen is on the front.
Jun 13 01:50:13 <SpeedEvil> In front of a metal plate that will very efficiently spread heat
Jun 13 01:50:47 <SpeedEvil> This could easily be due to pressure on the LCD causing the optical layers to vary in arrangement on the backlight
Jun 13 01:50:50 <DocScrutinizer> blobs on LCD are frequently caused by excessive mech pressure to the surface
Jun 13 01:51:03 <npm> last i checked it's not made of gold so it doesn't spread heat that efficiently
Jun 13 01:51:06 <DocScrutinizer> know effect
Jun 13 01:51:25 <DocScrutinizer> gold doesn't spread heat, alu does
Jun 13 01:51:26 <berndhs> i got it, the heat warps the case :)
Jun 13 01:51:31 <npm> maybe that's why nokia made the 18k phone.... better heat sink?
Jun 13 01:51:49 <SpeedEvil> npm: It's steel - so no - it's not a great heat spreader - but the heat would spread out considerably more than the reported spots
Jun 13 01:51:49 <DocScrutinizer> and copper
Jun 13 01:51:54 <npm> actually gold does spread heat it's just a very expensive heat sink
Jun 13 01:52:02 <SpeedEvil> Diamond is better.
Jun 13 01:52:12 <npm> the better the conductor the better the heat spread
Jun 13 01:52:29 <DocScrutinizer> roughly yes
Jun 13 01:52:52 <npm> thus the engineering reason for nokia making a gold phone :-) :-)
Jun 13 01:53:04 <DocScrutinizer> though there are excellent heatspreading isolators
Jun 13 01:53:07 <SpeedEvil> But in this case, the PCB is also a good heat conductor, which will spread heat lots.
Jun 13 01:53:46 <DocScrutinizer> burn-in on LCD also still an issue sometimes
Jun 13 01:54:10 <DocScrutinizer> esp when controller gets misconfigured
Jun 13 01:54:32 <DocScrutinizer> DC components are really bad for LCD
Jun 13 01:54:51 <user0> hmm
Jun 13 01:54:52 <akk> S-IPS LCD monitors can definitely have burn-in problems. My last one got really annoying, so with this one I'm constantly moving windows around.
Jun 13 01:54:56 <user0> just watched this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWFzN3HarHE
Jun 13 01:54:59 <akk> Not sure about TN displays.
Jun 13 01:55:08 <user0> ux seens a but slow
Jun 13 01:55:13 <user0> bit*
Jun 13 01:55:41 <user0> any progress made regarding that in the comming release ?
Jun 13 01:55:47 <user0> seems*
Jun 13 01:55:54 <SpeedEvil> LCDs are a complex arrangement of various optical films to diffuse and manage the light. Especially with thin displays, this can go a little bit wrong, and you get uneven brightness. Especially with mechanical stress on the display.
Jun 13 02:28:03 <redmagemeego_> 'ello
Jun 13 02:28:32 <redmagemeego_> does anybody know if the meego-dev room is up? I can't seem to join
Jun 13 02:28:53 <berndhs> meego-dev has been deprecated for a few months
Jun 13 02:29:04 <redmagemeego_> ohhh. Is there a new room?
Jun 13 02:29:12 <berndhs> no
Jun 13 02:29:45 <redmagemeego_> I see. Do you know who would be able to help me sign up to use build.meego.com? I cannot create a new account
Jun 13 02:30:31 <gabrbedd> redmagemeego_: To get a build.meego.com account, i think you have to file a bug.  And you need a Pretty Darn Good Reason to have it.
Jun 13 02:30:51 <gabrbedd> redmagemeego_: However, build.pub.meego.com (the community OBS) is open to the public...
Jun 13 02:31:07 <redmagemeego_> I see.
Jun 13 02:31:33 <redmagemeego_> I really just want to contribute to MeeGo's package list. Lot's of stuff not present in the repos.
Jun 13 02:32:28 <gabrbedd> http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder
Jun 13 02:32:38 <gabrbedd> redmagemeego_: ^^ That's how to get access.
Jun 13 02:33:14 <redmagemeego_> Cool *bookmarked*
Jun 13 02:33:18 <gabrbedd> FWIW, when you ask for access, they will ask that you "maintain" rather than "port" :-)
Jun 13 02:34:05 <gabrbedd> Anyway, it would be cool to have you part of the team. :-)
Jun 13 02:34:15 <gabrbedd> What kind of software are you interested in maintaining?
Jun 13 02:34:57 <redmagemeego_> well, I wanted to install gnash on my system, but it wasn't in the repos, so I thought I would contribute. A bunch of libraries aren't there for it either.
Jun 13 02:35:12 <redmagemeego_> like libpng
Jun 13 02:36:07 <redmagemeego_> If it's a rite of initiation to maintain first, I suppose I'll have to look into that.
Jun 13 02:36:35 <redmagemeego_> I'm a Rails developer at Groupon.com during the day, so maybe I could help with anything ruby related
Jun 13 02:37:53 <gabrbedd> redmagemeego_: OK.  BTW, libpng is already in MeeGo.
Jun 13 02:38:13 <redmagemeego_> really?
Jun 13 02:39:01 <redmagemeego_> Ah. I see that now in zypper. I must have been thinking of another package
Jun 13 02:39:16 <redmagemeego_> gnash does not appear to be
Jun 13 02:39:38 <gabrbedd> redmagemeego_: Nope.  MeeGo usually uses flash instead.
Jun 13 02:40:08 <redmagemeego_> yes, it comes with that. It kept crashing every time I watched a video full screen
Jun 13 02:40:36 <redmagemeego_> Let me ammend that: it kept FREEZING, not crashing
Jun 13 02:41:22 <redmagemeego_> I couldn't even get to the command line to kill it (as in ctrl+alt+f1, etc)
Jun 13 02:45:06 <gabrbedd> redmagemeego_: using chrome or fennec?
Jun 13 02:45:15 <btdrucke> join #meego-ux-components
Jun 13 02:46:17 <gabrbedd> btdrucke: what if I don't wanna?? :-p
Jun 13 02:47:36 <berndhs> you can't make me :)
Jun 13 02:48:04 * redmagemeego has quit?
Jun 13 02:48:08 <redmagemeego> :)
Jun 13 02:50:14 <redmagemeego> Alrighty, well, I sent Mr. Greaves a request. In the meantime I'll read more documentation
Jun 13 02:53:04 <npm> redmagemeego: the fullscreen issue might be a window manager prob more than flash
Jun 13 02:54:27 <redmagemeego> true
Jun 13 02:55:06 <redmagemeego> if i used gnash and still had the problem, I could be more confident about it
Jun 13 02:55:24 <redmagemeego> but then, maybe there are some logs somewhere. I don't know
Jun 13 02:56:25 <npm> well you should just try dropping in fedora 14's gnash first to see if it's worth the effort ( http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem ) although some consider that a treasonous opinion
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 13 02:59:57 2011