**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 15 02:59:57 2011 Jun 15 03:20:54 morning Jun 15 03:21:37 yeah, time to go to sleep Jun 15 03:21:59 berndhs, :) Jun 15 03:23:57 good night Jun 15 04:37:32 * mikeleib waves to all the boys and girls of the world Jun 15 04:37:55 \o Jun 15 04:39:57 in looking at some of the maemo tools, I came across xresponse Jun 15 04:40:20 I think it can measure how long it takes for an app to start, but I can't seem to get it to do what I want Jun 15 04:40:26 anybody with experience in such things in the house? Jun 15 04:43:56 i think n900 ce people have measured the times, but not sure what they have used Jun 15 04:44:36 I vaguely remember it's somehing that LD_PRELOADS the app, and then watches for GTK calls Jun 15 04:44:42 window calls, rather Jun 15 04:49:51 from the README, it talks about damage events Jun 15 04:52:41 Initially the WM maps the window, and then sends the app a damage event, telling it to paint the window - I think Jun 15 04:52:52 But it's been a while since I've read it. Jun 15 04:54:09 yah Jun 15 04:56:41 bbl... i think... Jun 15 05:38:09 a lil more progress: http://nielsmayer.com/meego/tab/meego-app-youtube.png Jun 15 05:39:11 decided to make it an app first, then a panel like http://nielsmayer.com/meego/tab/meego-ux-panels-youtube.png Jun 15 05:39:33 (just re-wrapped cutetube for maemo/n900 into tablet ux) Jun 15 05:40:51 why the menu/back buttons? Jun 15 05:41:35 the meego ux components provide atleast the 'menu' button Jun 15 05:42:01 but I guess you're not using them? Jun 15 05:42:06 looks like stock qmltube (old version) to me Jun 15 05:42:11 good point... because i just dropped the existing source code in and made it work Jun 15 05:42:17 it is Jun 15 05:42:43 GonzoTheGreat: is there a newer version? Jun 15 05:42:51 maemo doesn't have meego ux component Jun 15 05:43:37 Are you using qmltube (qml) ore cutetube (python)? Jun 15 05:44:21 i just grabbed http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/q/qmltube/qmltube_0.6.5.tar.gz and started hacking Jun 15 05:44:36 not much hacking actully, just some reparenting Jun 15 05:45:14 I am running qmltube-0.9.8! Jun 15 05:45:16 so if there's a newer version or a git repo i don't know about pls let me know i found it here http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/qmltube/0.6.5/ Jun 15 05:45:24 (doh!) Jun 15 05:45:29 where from? Jun 15 05:45:29 toolbar is quite different Jun 15 05:45:56 yeah the comments/related tabs don't work for example Jun 15 05:46:00 just extras-devel via package manager. Jun 15 05:46:14 they didn't in orig version but if there's a 0.9.8... Jun 15 05:46:25 Also got the source in scratchbox Jun 15 05:46:31 same version Jun 15 05:47:25 The latest version has qtmultimedia playback as well Jun 15 05:48:22 cool. well i didn't do much work. Jun 15 05:48:45 i was trying to figure it out, then i decided to let qml figure it out for me and fix errors till i got things running Jun 15 05:48:58 and i got things running in short while Jun 15 05:49:57 IMHO it is the best qml-based program around. Quite snappy even on the old dog ;) Jun 15 05:50:19 /var/run/obs/worker/1/build/build: line 1259: 13235 Segmentation fault      umount $BUILD_ROOT Jun 15 05:50:38 nice(TM) Jun 15 05:50:39 yes, i started doing my own in pure qml, and was reminded by villev (hi ville) about cutetube qml being available in source Jun 15 05:51:08 :) Jun 15 05:51:48 Have dabbled myself. Only desktop widgets so far though. Never got enough time to do something bigger. Jun 15 05:51:49 mine is a lot more concise ( http://ytd-meego.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/playground/ytapi-jsonviewer/ ) Jun 15 05:52:18 and probably runs faster in some situations since it uses JSON API Jun 15 05:52:47 (on n900, feed-reading seems to spend a lot of time garbage collecting in qml) Jun 15 05:53:18 UX performance seems much better than other applications e.g. kasvopus etc Jun 15 05:54:06 yeah it works nicely even on n900, but then again so does my json viewer, other than firing up flash to display the vids Jun 15 05:55:17 so anyways i figured it's a good program to build for the tablet, and a cute-tube based panel would improve http://nielsmayer.com/meego/tab/meego-ux-panels-youtube.png Jun 15 05:56:34 so the panel is based your code? Jun 15 05:57:01 same deal, a quick rip through my existing code to see if it would work in panel context Jun 15 05:57:19 nice Jun 15 05:57:34 but then do i want to spend tome reinventing wheel or can i just frob cutetube into a panel Jun 15 05:57:46 decided i can, but would first run cutetube as an app Jun 15 05:57:58 to see if anything else weird came up first Jun 15 05:59:19 I think the trouble is handcrafted qml<-> qml components<->meego ux components Jun 15 05:59:58 but i have other stuff i want to do so leveraging as much of cutetube would be better Jun 15 06:00:47 meego ux components are handcrafted qml ;P Jun 15 06:00:59 or sort of anyway Jun 15 06:01:09 How do you write something which works (intergrates) on maemo/symbian/meego-ux Jun 15 06:01:18 well that's true, but the problem is on the tablet, if you don't wrap it w/ appropriate parent windows then it hoses up the tablet ux Jun 15 06:01:38 for example running plain cutetube-qml runs a full-window which prevents window switching Jun 15 06:02:30 Is that what qml components were for? Jun 15 06:02:40 well what i think is needed is an abstraction class that lets you write the same parent and wrapping to target whatever platform Jun 15 06:02:49 so you don't have to keep rewrapping for different uxes Jun 15 06:03:28 but beyond that a "widget set" is needed along with CDE-like standards of behavior for the desktop, translated to the tablet world Jun 15 06:03:45 But there aren't consistent implementation of Qt.components yet?! Jun 15 06:04:23 (ultimately, i don't want to think about transitions and visual fluff, i want to use whatever is appropriate for the device) Jun 15 06:04:24 I thought e.g. the implementation Window would handle this Jun 15 06:04:39 have the device be my fluffer :-) Jun 15 06:04:42 implementation of Window Jun 15 06:04:46 yeah, it does Jun 15 06:05:28 So are meego ux components compatible with Qt.components? Jun 15 06:05:53 They are different includes right now, aren't they? Jun 15 06:06:31 a quick look, it's a superset? Jun 15 06:06:48 well basically i had to get rid of Window and reparent w/ MeeGo.Window Jun 15 06:06:51 MeeGo.Window { // see: ~/qtquick/ux/meego-ux-components/src/components/ux/Window.qml Jun 15 06:07:08 Which I think is bad. Jun 15 06:07:14 and MeeGo.AppPage { // see: ~/qtquick/ux/meego-ux-components/src/components/ux/AppPage.qml Jun 15 06:07:40 i do too, but i'm just playing software DJ with the beat someone else chose Jun 15 06:08:17 trying not to have a software trainwreck in the process Jun 15 06:08:31 Well I was planning to do qml components for maemo, the lack of clarity however means I haven't started yet. Jun 15 06:09:34 ah... well i'm basically using the tablet ux because i don't like wasting time doing stuff that should be trivial like popping up a dialog box Jun 15 06:10:52 or making a selector, etc... so once Components are ready and I see apps being built w/ them, i'll give em a try Jun 15 06:11:14 too true Jun 15 06:12:02 I think that is the main problem at the moment. However if meego ux is different again there is no point. Jun 15 06:12:22 y'all haven't made very good progress in the last 20 years, given where i was at 20 years ago: http://nielsmayer.com/p45-mayer.pdf Jun 15 06:13:18 aka qml developed in the right language :-) Jun 15 06:14:02 * GonzoTheGreat thinks flame war is near Jun 15 06:14:11 nah, i Jun 15 06:14:21 m done w/ language wars. all hail javascript Jun 15 06:15:37 but there are a lot of steps backwards taken, in tablet-UX... it's like X10 all over again Jun 15 06:15:51 waltone: who is ther any cooparetaion (left) between meego components and qt.components? Jun 15 06:15:53 putting the window management functionality into the app Jun 15 06:16:09 * GonzoTheGreat should learn typing Jun 15 06:17:20 or the fact that my app spends time burbling about which neighbors wireless connections are going on/offline so as to draw the icon when it disconnects Jun 15 06:19:11 or on a wired network it burbles "Debug: id: 0 name: Wired state: 6 type: ethernet: path: /profile/default/ethernet_60eb69283c97_cable" Jun 15 08:16:48 good morning gabrbedd Jun 15 08:36:17 Anyone alive? =) Jun 15 08:36:26 vaguely Jun 15 08:37:14 Stskeeps: there is a "where have all developers left?" thread on tm^H^H^H^H^oh sorry :) Jun 15 08:37:23 poke me with a stick and I see what I can do... Jun 15 09:37:34 andre__, So - putting in a proposal for MeeGo track in Praha? Jun 15 09:38:38 dneary, hmm? :) Jun 15 09:38:48 refering to LinuxCon? Jun 15 09:38:55 andre__, Well, you're in .cz, so, yes Jun 15 09:39:06 sorry, still a bit sleepy :) Jun 15 09:39:22 hmm, must check deadlines, and then come up with something I could talk about. but basically I'm interested, yupp Jun 15 09:44:19 any news about N9/N950 ?? Jun 15 09:47:17 ashwinipatankar: there's no such device announced Jun 15 09:47:24 so, no news Jun 15 09:47:50 * alterego sighs Jun 15 09:47:59 thiago: wahts about the teasers and so much buzz on the net ?? Jun 15 09:48:30 ashwinipatankar: Keep an eye on Endgadget. You will learn news a lot faster there than here. Jun 15 09:48:42 hy all. I have a small problem related to OBS, but maybe you can help: I recently had to move my OBS machines to a new location, so the IP's changed. I've updated the configuration files, and now OBS works ok - workers do builds, I can checkout and update packages (by API), but when I try to commit a change (using API) I get a server time out. Any clues? Jun 15 09:48:45 ashwinipatankar: rumours. Jun 15 09:49:05 ashwinipatankar: and given past track record, they had a hit rate of less than 50%. Jun 15 09:49:09 thiago: :( Jun 15 09:49:22 * thiago remembers all the discussions on what processor platform the Nokia MeeGo device will have. Jun 15 09:50:13 it will have a quantum processor and kittens with lasers for eyes Jun 15 09:50:27 And it can turn into a submarine Jun 15 09:50:43 * thiago wants one of those Jun 15 09:51:13 We all want one :) Jun 15 09:51:32 was Mx switched to an other toolkit or is UX still using Mx? Jun 15 09:51:46 It will swap to the perforated tape. Jun 15 09:51:53 luisbg: netbook uses it but tablet uses qml Jun 15 09:51:55 luisbg: the netbook UX is using Mx (I think) Jun 15 09:52:00 Swapping to EMMC just wasn't good enough... Jun 15 09:52:05 the others use QML Jun 15 09:52:11 thiago, and Stskeeps, thanks for the info Jun 15 09:52:31 The netbook UX uses gtk Jun 15 09:52:40 BTW, is IVI interface done entirely in QML now? How about MeegoTV? Jun 15 09:52:53 Handset is the only platform (1.1-1.2) that uses MeeGo Touch Framework. Jun 15 09:52:59 1.3 will be all MeeGo UX Jun 15 09:53:03 alterego, so gtk + Mx, or just gtk? Jun 15 09:53:16 luisbg: afaik, netbook is just gtk Jun 15 09:53:35 Though it has Qt installed too, it's just the UX is Gtk+ based. Jun 15 09:56:54 One more time: IVI and MeegoTV seem to have most developed UXs nowadays. Are they using QML or something else? Jun 15 09:58:11 RST38h: I think at least IVI is QML, MeeGo TV is either QML or they're migrating (from talking to people at the conference that is my impression). Jun 15 09:58:33 Aha =) Jun 15 10:15:31 is there any convenient way to integrate Qt-application to the netbook toolbar? Jun 15 10:32:28 hello. Jun 15 10:34:16 * achipa listens to Putting Out the Fire with Gasoline while posting flamboyant content to the Qt5 feedback list Jun 15 10:34:43 are you trying to go out with a bang, or something? Jun 15 10:34:44 :P Jun 15 10:34:48 :) Jun 15 10:35:19 possible to get remote access using the rescue Initrd? Jun 15 10:35:27 i tried yesterday Jun 15 10:35:47 but i cant seem to connect over ssh or telnet Jun 15 10:36:11 i can get networking working between the laptop and the n900 using it Jun 15 10:36:20 like i can ping it, but nothing else Jun 15 10:36:37 it answers to ping? Jun 15 10:36:46 yes Jun 15 10:36:51 but how can i get remote access? Jun 15 10:36:56 ssh should work Jun 15 10:37:03 rescue initrd won't have ssh Jun 15 10:37:09 the recovery terminal is useless Jun 15 10:37:09 ah Jun 15 10:37:17 you cant tip commands Jun 15 10:37:21 also, what rescue initrd? Jun 15 10:37:21 :P Jun 15 10:37:30 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd Jun 15 10:37:36 type* Jun 15 10:37:37 Stskeeps: it's the thing we based our emmc installer on :) Jun 15 10:37:46 achipa, which ML are you winning on? Jun 15 10:37:54 user0: that doesn't have a telnetd i think Jun 15 10:38:02 Sage: do we have a telnetd on initrd? Jun 15 10:38:08 timoph : what port is the sshd running on ? Jun 15 10:38:25 Stskeeps: I don't think so Jun 15 10:38:34 Sage: so why do we have usb networking? :P Jun 15 10:38:35 user0: not actually sure that it has it after thinking about it a bit Jun 15 10:38:51 Stskeeps : exactly Jun 15 10:39:08 Stskeeps: well, I used it from console to outside ;) Jun 15 10:39:12 user0: anyway, you should be able to start a shell and manually start busybox telnetd Jun 15 10:39:17 not from outside to device :) Jun 15 10:39:25 user0: i believe Jun 15 10:39:42 user0: also, feel free to file bug reports on bugs.meego.com or send patches Jun 15 10:40:32 i'd spend the day reporting bugs Jun 15 10:40:40 sounds good Jun 15 10:40:42 please do :) Jun 15 10:40:49 i just want to get this thing workig atm Jun 15 10:40:51 :) Jun 15 10:40:54 that's more likely to get things working, so Jun 15 10:41:14 i'm trying to build gnome-screesaver from sources, but it says: + %reconfigure --with-xscreensaverdir=/usr/share/xscreensaver/config --with-xscreensaverhackdir=/usr/libexec/xscreensaver --with-mit-screensaver=no /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.UfL1mE: line 28: fg: no job control - spec wasn't changed. broken srpm? Jun 15 10:42:23 Stskeeps : so are you sure it has a telnetd ? Jun 15 10:42:49 user0: not 100%, but open a shell with the physical keyboard and ./busybox Jun 15 10:42:50 er Jun 15 10:42:52 'busybox' Jun 15 10:43:13 user0: what are you trying to do anyway? Jun 15 10:43:53 echo root:$(grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1): Jun 15 10:44:09 thas all i wana do Jun 15 10:45:32 what is the best way to integrate Qt applications to the Meego netbook UX? Any way to make them as toolbar panels? Jun 15 10:45:34 okay, so you're trying to hack the lock_code and that's a tad suspicious ;) put that line on a sd card, mount it and sh it from the shell Jun 15 10:45:58 :) Jun 15 10:46:02 thats not possible Jun 15 10:46:15 sure it is Jun 15 10:46:21 i cant mount it Jun 15 10:46:36 i cant type stuff like / or . or - or numbers using the recovery terminal Jun 15 10:47:08 anyway, bbl Jun 15 10:47:11 (got a phonecall) Jun 15 10:47:19 :D Jun 15 10:47:46 initrd wasn't exactly made for hacking the lock code, but honestly, save yourself some trouble, flash uboot and boot meego from a microsd card instead Jun 15 10:47:53 much easier Jun 15 10:48:26 has a sshd open Jun 15 10:48:42 i'll read about that Jun 15 10:48:43 thx Jun 15 10:50:58 delac, you will need to use the API for those panels Jun 15 10:52:26 Venemo: any documents on that? or tutorials? Jun 15 10:53:52 Stskeeps, accessing the rootfs is more involved than with the rescue initrd Jun 15 10:53:58 delac, you could look at the sources of the other panels Jun 15 10:54:15 delac, http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-netbook-ux/ Jun 15 10:54:39 Venemo: I think they are all gtk or clutter based... Jun 15 10:55:06 delac, I meant, look at how they make themselves a meego panel Jun 15 10:55:44 * user0 is lost Jun 15 10:56:03 Stskeeps : where should is start ? Jun 15 10:56:06 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/U-Boot_from_scratch Jun 15 10:57:29 I* Jun 15 10:57:45 delac, I think you will need to use MplPanelClient - http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-netbook-ux/mutter-meego/blobs/master/libmeego-panel/docs/README Jun 15 10:57:55 give me the wiki pages i'll need to read to get what you had in mind done. Jun 15 10:58:21 found some guide regarding uboot being installed using the application manager , but thats not gona be useful Jun 15 10:58:45 since i dont have access to anything. the lock code is asked at boot Jun 15 10:59:17 Venemo: yes, but that seems to be either gtk or clutter based applications. Jun 15 11:00:02 delac, so make your own MplPanelClient subclass for Qt or use it directly for your app Jun 15 11:00:33 lcuk: as the title said, qt5-feedback Jun 15 11:01:04 Venemo: you think using that directly from othervise Qt based application would work nicely? Jun 15 11:01:33 delac, yes, I'm sure of it. Jun 15 11:02:04 delac, although you will definitely need to dig into the code of the existing implementations to see how it works Jun 15 11:02:39 achipa, thanks, have signed up Jun 15 11:02:52 http://lists.qt.nokia.com/pipermail/qt5-feedback/2011-June/thread.html Jun 15 11:02:54 delac, at the time that API was designed (Moblin times), Qt was not yet considered Jun 15 11:03:29 in a long distant time 1048 BQ Jun 15 11:03:31 lcuk, great :) Jun 15 11:03:46 lcuk, you could add your thoughts to my thoughts about lambdas in that list Jun 15 11:04:01 not really I cannot Jun 15 11:04:11 why not? Jun 15 11:04:24 because I didn't even know you were on the list Jun 15 11:04:54 and lambdas remind me more of half-life than coding Jun 15 11:05:27 I might know more with more coffee though Jun 15 11:05:41 lcuk, from your link, I found this: http://lists.qt.nokia.com/pipermail/qt5-feedback/2011-June/000536.html Jun 15 11:06:52 I know, I am reading it now Jun 15 11:14:41 . Jun 15 11:14:51 hello Jun 15 11:15:29 is there a way to test the meego tablet ux directly on my stock Ubuntu 11.04 32bit with Qt4.7.3 ? Jun 15 11:16:48 i can't achieve to compile it from gitorious there are too many crossing dependancies Jun 15 11:17:04 could you please tell me a quite simple method to get a running menu + panels + compositor + some simple apps (contacts, calendar and mail e.g.) Jun 15 11:17:06 thx Jun 15 11:17:13 TheBootroo, then resolve the dependencies and it will work Jun 15 11:17:24 or download the image and try it from there Jun 15 11:18:06 the meego ux is part of meego, it would be worrysome if it did not require bits of meego to build! Jun 15 11:19:32 lcuk: i can't test image since i dont have atom neither intel graphics, i want only the qt/qml apps on my linux laptop Jun 15 11:19:32 and i can't find missing deps Jun 15 11:20:07 lcuk: the only difference between meego and other linux are some qt made libs Jun 15 11:20:17 so i would be able to get it run under ubuntu Jun 15 11:20:39 i want to load meego UX just like gnome or kde , from the gdm screen Jun 15 11:20:55 i know how to add it to gdm but it can't achieve compilation Jun 15 11:21:58 how to dl all src packages from one command ? (apt is handling this very well : you ask for a src packages and it downloads it and all src deps, is there the same with RPM ? ) Jun 15 11:24:03 i was thinking there could be a PPA with precompiled meego apps for ubuntu (directely in .DEB) but there is none (surprising... am i the first one wanting to awesome MeegO panels on a classic distro with all my usual programs ?) Jun 15 11:24:58 no, afaik some folks from debian have been tinkering Jun 15 11:25:15 ask there to see how far they have gotten with meego ux components Jun 15 11:25:31 there is that : http://confusingdevelopers.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/intels-qt-quick-components-available-for-ubuntu/ Jun 15 11:25:45 but is this sufficient to run meego panels and menu ? Jun 15 11:27:00 TheBootroo, speciffically which dependencies are missing Jun 15 11:28:19 i dont remember, a big number, so i get 'libmeegotouch', 'mthemedaemon', 'contextkit','libseaside' and a bunch of others but some didn't compiled because of missing others deps Jun 15 11:29:01 have you ever "ported" applications from outside ubuntu into ubuntu? Jun 15 11:29:37 yes, starting by maemo apps Jun 15 11:29:53 with maemo specific code Jun 15 11:30:19 is there a faster way than http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/NFS#Installing_NFS_server to get remote access ? Jun 15 11:30:26 i've even created replacement qt classes for maemo's message box, stacked windows and notification banners.... Jun 15 11:30:31 i dont need meego installed i just need a remote shell Jun 15 11:30:46 or some recovery terminal that works Jun 15 11:31:10 Then why are you here? Jun 15 11:31:17 lcuk: the https://launchpad.net/~forumnokia/+archive/fn-ppa repos is no more updated Jun 15 11:31:32 user0: well you need to boot something. Like Stskeeps said the easy way is to boot meego from sd (you can load the kernel without using uboot) Jun 15 11:32:05 TheBootroo, ask around ubuntu if there are others working, normally porting whole ux will be bigger than porting individual apps Jun 15 11:32:12 you might find a team already working on it Jun 15 11:32:22 you can find all the needed info to get it running from the wiki Jun 15 11:32:43 but i thought that OBS was made to produce different kinds of packages automatically, so why doesn't it build .deb packages of meego x86 packages ? Jun 15 11:32:58 TheBootroo: because there's this thing called packaging? Jun 15 11:33:36 it still needs the packaging script and afaik the community obs doesn't do debs atm Jun 15 11:33:44 lcuk: "porting whole ux will be bigger than porting individual apps" : but we can't port only apps since they need the whole ux to run (i saw many meego only qml classes used in meego-panels E.G.) Jun 15 11:34:09 Stskeeps: what do you mean ? Jun 15 11:34:18 TheBootroo: as in manual work to make debian/ dirs is needed Jun 15 11:34:28 alterego : im here just to piss you off :P Jun 15 11:34:29 the basis info for .deb are the same than for .rpm Jun 15 11:34:43 Stskeeps: true ? Jun 15 11:35:00 yes, but dependancy names are different and a lot of small details Jun 15 11:35:02 it isn't 1:1 Jun 15 11:35:07 user0: please behave then, we're trying to be helpful, so don't be lazy :) Jun 15 11:35:11 Stskeeps: i didn't know : when i generate .deb package from qt project for my N900 it's wuite straitforward Jun 15 11:35:18 timoph : i was hoping the rescue Initrd was the solution Jun 15 11:35:37 *quite Jun 15 11:36:24 Stskeeps: qtcreator automatically generates enough information to build a correct .deb package from a single .pro file Jun 15 11:36:39 TheBootroo: yes, but that only works for a subset Jun 15 11:36:42 Stskeeps: i mean, qtcreator from Qt Nokia SDk Jun 15 11:36:51 Stskeeps: that's too bad Jun 15 11:37:14 i really want to use MeeGO UX but i don't have the right hardware Jun 15 11:37:37 * alterego sighs Jun 15 11:37:45 so at least if a qt apps running on my ubuntu box they will use existing graphics acceleration( nvidia 9600M GT) Jun 15 11:37:52 * Stskeeps looks around for a beer Jun 15 11:38:05 * TheBootroo gives Stskeeps a bear :p Jun 15 11:38:12 * lcuk runs to the bar and grabs a crateful Jun 15 11:38:14 grrrr Jun 15 11:38:35 TheBootroo, it is understandable, go and find out how far the debian folks have gotten Jun 15 11:38:42 you might be asking questions already answered Jun 15 11:38:44 Teeheehee Jun 15 11:39:13 you can stop laughing alterego :P Jun 15 11:39:17 lcuk: you mean debians guys from a regular debian channel or some special meego/debian channel ? Jun 15 11:39:22 where is the package for qtcontacts import :P Jun 15 11:39:34 TheBootroo, I don't know where thye hang out Jun 15 11:39:45 but afaik there is a "meego on debian" project of some ilk Jun 15 11:39:56 In my pub obs, still lacking the script. Jun 15 11:39:58 but since I am concentrating on meego on meego have not watched too much Jun 15 11:40:19 I'm gonna rename the package so I can add the script to it making it maemo import specific. Jun 15 11:40:44 alterego, http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DataManagement/ContactsImportScript Jun 15 11:40:50 wish i had my laptop with me today Jun 15 11:40:56 all i have here at work is winxp Jun 15 11:40:57 but Stskeeps aren't you responsible of meego for N900 ? since that you must know how to build .deb packages from meego OBS ? Jun 15 11:41:21 very basic and you were talking about moving the mounting to somewhere else, I am at outstretched end of my knowledge here and hoping you can do the technical stuff :$ Jun 15 11:41:25 iekku: good morning! Jun 15 11:41:25 even if the method is hard, i'm developer and linux user i can use CLI, i just want instructions Jun 15 11:41:27 TheBootroo: yes, and i don't have to do debian packaging in my work. it makes me really happy. Jun 15 11:41:27 i guess all this will have to wait untill im back at home :( Jun 15 11:41:30 :P Jun 15 11:41:56 lcuk: I'll have it done by the end of the day. Jun 15 11:41:59 stskeeps : do you recommend this http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/NFS#Installing_NFS_server ? Jun 15 11:42:08 alterego, wonderful :$ Jun 15 11:42:10 user0: no, just use a microsd card and save yourself a lot of power Jun 15 11:42:14 and time Jun 15 11:42:22 none at hand Jun 15 11:42:33 then you'll have to wait Jun 15 11:42:34 but that should work , no ? Jun 15 11:42:40 gabrbedd, :D Jun 15 11:42:50 user0: haven't tested it for ages Jun 15 11:43:38 the results cant be as bad as using the rescue Initrd :P Jun 15 11:43:55 Stskeeps: where can i download an updated MeeGoDE for N900 with tablet UX ? if i can't test it on my desktop, maybe i can get some recent image for my n900, Jun 15 11:44:07 TheBootroo: wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 Jun 15 11:44:30 and http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/ Jun 15 11:44:36 for the images themselves Jun 15 11:45:16 Stskeeps: you mean http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/TabletUX i know this page but i dont see the DE image link in it.... Jun 15 11:45:32 th^^ Jun 15 11:45:51 daily and weekly testing include n900-de handset and tablet builds Jun 15 11:47:14 lcuk: each folder i look in for meego recent iamges doesn't contains tablet image and even some times no handset image only some log file or xml one Jun 15 11:47:43 http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/1.2.0.90.4.20110613.2.DE.2011-06-15.1/images/mg-tablet-armv7nhl-n900-ce-testing/ Jun 15 11:47:56 curious because I just started downloading that a little bit ago Jun 15 11:48:37 lcuk: sry i checked just 4 days ago and the most recent i found was 24 may dated ! Jun 15 11:50:04 well 4 days ago would make it the 11th Jun 15 11:50:06 http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/1.2.0.90.3.20110609.2.DE.2011-06-11.1/images/mg-tablet-armv7nhl-n900-ce-testing/ Jun 15 11:50:15 which surprisingly has an image from... the 11th Jun 15 11:50:45 but there were a few days at start of month Jun 15 11:50:49 lcuk: maybe i didn't looked at the right place Jun 15 11:50:52 where images were not made Jun 15 11:50:56 yes, likely Jun 15 11:51:08 moral of story: there are n900 images for tablet build that you can check Jun 15 11:51:10 i looked into repos.meego.com Jun 15 11:51:28 the n900-community edition is not direct meego project Jun 15 11:51:36 lcuk: however i really would like test it on my computer, biger and more powerfull Jun 15 11:51:57 just hold the n900 closer to your face, it gets much bigger Jun 15 11:52:11 lcuk: you funny you know Jun 15 11:52:12 and as far power, the n900 outperforms many other devices even today :) Jun 15 11:52:15 ;-) Jun 15 11:52:38 lcuk: n900 is powerful for a phone, but terribly lacks RAM overall Jun 15 11:52:58 and nothing compares to a quad core computer in the phone class Jun 15 11:52:59 fair Jun 15 11:53:05 obviously Jun 15 11:53:12 but quad core computer looks silly held to your ear Jun 15 11:53:44 Yeah, Nokia should have learned from the 770 wrt RAM Jun 15 11:53:46 TheBootroo, if I hear anything about the meego on debian/ubuntu I wll endeavour to remember Jun 15 11:53:57 i dont speak about phone, i really want tablet ux on a regular laptop, that i use fo music, web and photo Jun 15 11:53:57 I added your point to my graffiti wall Jun 15 11:54:14 thx Jun 15 11:54:54 if you find some complete meego apps compilation guide, let me know, with all dependancies needed and were to find their last version Jun 15 11:55:09 TheBootroo: shouldn't be too hard, the dependencies are all there and it's not like it depends on intel graphics hardware like the images. Jun 15 11:55:10 * RST38h yawns Jun 15 11:55:15 i think that is something even the developers on meego ask ;) Jun 15 11:55:26 * RST38h yawns at the bootroo troll. Jun 15 11:55:27 you just have to dive into obs Jun 15 11:55:39 RST38h: which troll ? Jun 15 11:55:44 RST38h, yawning because it is not you this time trolling :P Jun 15 11:56:13 RST38h: i don't troll, i just want to do something and i can't Jun 15 11:56:17 so i ask Jun 15 11:56:23 Rather than endless argue on what mobile computing is, tell me how to pass arguments into the Android NativeActivity. Jun 15 11:56:34 lcuk: easily fixable, as you see :) Jun 15 11:56:53 RST38h: android is sh*t and saying that is a troll Jun 15 11:57:33 * lcuk grabs more beer Jun 15 11:57:40 Sure, it is shit Jun 15 11:57:44 i ask because there are many guys more skilled than me, but unhopefully nobody has tried what i ask for, as usual, maybe i'm wanting too compilcated thing all the time Jun 15 11:57:49 Sells millions of units though Jun 15 11:58:11 RST38h: most people on earth are stupid sheep, we all know that Jun 15 11:58:19 oi Jun 15 11:58:31 do not insult or generalise to most people. Jun 15 11:59:00 i tried an Asus Transformer yesterday, great device but Android 3.1 ruins it, meego for tablets would be great, but that's too bad, its a nvidia platform :-( Jun 15 11:59:20 lcuk: us here are not really 'most people' Jun 15 11:59:34 * RST38h is ok selling to stuid sheep Jun 15 12:00:00 As long as I get to shave 'em regularly, you know... Jun 15 12:00:06 * TheBootroo thinks selling to sheep is a very profitable business Jun 15 12:00:20 * TheBootroo don't want to be shaved Jun 15 12:00:39 lcuk: See, how lively it becomes when I have to wait for testing to complete? Jun 15 12:00:50 it was lively before you arrived Jun 15 12:00:57 :P Jun 15 12:01:04 * TheBootroo lols Jun 15 12:01:09 what are you testing? Jun 15 12:01:22 Nah, it was the same newbie fanboy shit, boring Jun 15 12:01:25 lcuk: code Jun 15 12:02:04 * TheBootroo hints RST38h to stay polite Jun 15 12:02:08 ;-) Jun 15 12:02:09 manly code? Jun 15 12:02:38 lcuk: Oh, you can't imagine... =( Jun 15 12:02:38 like ardiuno controlled beer dispensing robot control code? Jun 15 12:02:52 lcuk: great Jun 15 12:02:58 it would be Jun 15 12:03:43 in qml is the text/memo/html box actually a qml component? Jun 15 12:03:53 or are they normal qwidgets still? Jun 15 12:04:04 lcuk: i dont use QMl Jun 15 12:04:24 well thankfully I wasn't asking you :P Jun 15 12:04:29 only QWidget + QCss or QGraphicsItem Jun 15 12:04:36 lcuk: i know i know Jun 15 12:04:42 lcuk: -_- Jun 15 12:04:52 lcuk: not sure. Though they probably exist in 4.8 Jun 15 12:04:57 (for scene graph) Jun 15 12:05:47 wondering because I did some playing outside qt with how to make a memobox from scratch Jun 15 12:05:56 using only rectangles and containers initially Jun 15 12:06:06 lcuk: Afaik, it HAS to be a component Jun 15 12:06:17 RST38h, for what reason? Jun 15 12:06:21 scalability? Jun 15 12:06:24 lcuk: Whether it is a proper one or a qwidget container is a different thing Jun 15 12:06:33 Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Text component is a component and editors inherit from it. Jun 15 12:06:45 lcuk: semantics? Jun 15 12:06:55 RST38h, you mean a native coded component rather than a pure qml element Jun 15 12:07:08 lcuk: the first Jun 15 12:07:13 yeah Jun 15 12:07:24 it was like Microsoft still using native elements in .net Jun 15 12:09:57 RST38h, is that just for brevity or do you think it has been attempted? Jun 15 12:10:20 lcuk: I do not really know Jun 15 12:10:46 Let me see if I can find the source code Jun 15 12:11:07 RST38h, no need Jun 15 12:11:13 was just idle banter Jun 15 12:13:28 lcuk: seems to still use QTextDocument Jun 15 12:14:25 hmmh Jun 15 12:14:46 Would be unusual if it didn't... Jun 15 12:14:51 I was doing some tinkering and was hoping for it to be native qml Jun 15 12:15:01 lcuk: AFAIK QML are coded using C++/Qt4 classes Jun 15 12:15:02 well RST38h http://liqbase.net/liq.20110613_221639.codebox.scr.png http://liqbase.net/liq.20110614_024720.codebox2.scr.png Jun 15 12:15:15 only display and use is done via QML Jun 15 12:15:29 TheBootroo: nope :P Jun 15 12:15:38 QML needs a Qt/C++ launcher/interpreter Jun 15 12:16:04 TheBootroo: sorry, misinterpreted classes as QWidgets Jun 15 12:16:09 lcuk: Lemme guess, you continue reqwriting the complete UX stack in liqbase? =) Jun 15 12:16:20 alterego: why not ? i don't know Javascript that could launch itself, it needs a engine Jun 15 12:16:36 what would happen if you could make a .qml file +x executable and get linux itself to do the bootstraping Jun 15 12:16:47 so QtCore classes and QGraphics one too are used by QML Jun 15 12:16:50 Yes, QML is written in Qt/C++, but we're talking about whether it uses QWidgets for some display components, which it shouldn't Jun 15 12:16:56 RST38h, was testing ideas and was rather hoping for a qml variant Jun 15 12:17:05 lcuk: you can do that. Jun 15 12:17:25 but qmlviewer is not recommended, which would be how you bootstrap it. Jun 15 12:18:18 ali1234: zypper bug -- could not reproduce. Jun 15 12:19:00 ali1234: rpmbuild ~/rpmbuild/SPECS/kernel.spec -- I didn't get your exact results, but I got something similar. Jun 15 12:19:07 lcuk: I might be wrong, seems it uses QPainter, might use text document for constants and layout info/engine. Jun 15 12:19:22 ali1234: I'll go back and follow your steps to the "t" and comment on the bug report. Jun 15 12:19:36 RST38h, I have certain elements inside qt Jun 15 12:20:01 just when I come across a roadblock in knowledge of qt I dive back into my liqbase code garden and have a go there Jun 15 13:08:21 lcuk: alterego: Has anyone tried to put a shebang line in a QML file? Jun 15 13:08:52 gabrbedd: no, but it'll fail, because # isn't a comment Jun 15 13:09:16 You could make one like: //!/usr/bin/qmlviewer Jun 15 13:09:30 But it's probably best to use the extension Jun 15 13:10:04 binfmt_misc? Jun 15 13:10:31 the program that loads the qml file (the one listed in the shebang line) could strip out the first line Jun 15 13:12:00 sure, still think binfmt is better .. Jun 15 13:22:01 * gabrbedd reads about binfmt Jun 15 13:24:59 hm. I didn't know that existed. Jun 15 13:28:40 :) Jun 15 13:28:49 It's what makes qemu work in chroots Jun 15 13:28:59 And other magic Jun 15 13:29:13 scratchbox uses it, obs uses it, etc. Jun 15 13:39:59 gabrbedd, the syntax in c/c++ files does not allow it? Jun 15 13:40:12 though on similar, I did find out last night Jun 15 13:40:30 that http://url url syntax *IS* valid within c code Jun 15 13:40:38 after I mistakenly pasted a link within some source Jun 15 13:41:51 lcuk: Are we talking C/C++ or javascript? Jun 15 13:42:06 gabrbedd, my observation was c Jun 15 13:42:17 i had middle clicked a youtube link into middle of some source Jun 15 13:42:24 and only noticed when I was checking git diffs Jun 15 13:42:35 te code compiled and built happily Jun 15 13:42:44 because http: is a goto jump point thingy Jun 15 13:42:51 and //youtube.com/ is a comment Jun 15 13:42:52 lcuk: AFAIK, they're right... #! is not a comment... so it would need special //! support from bash. Jun 15 13:43:01 Haha... That's true. :-) Jun 15 13:43:13 which is tricky Jun 15 13:43:25 I tried similar within the meego wiki the other day Jun 15 13:43:37 You should keep that handy for an the IOCCC Jun 15 13:43:53 Internation Obfuscated C Code Contest Jun 15 13:44:05 http://www.ioccc.org Jun 15 13:44:23 heh Jun 15 13:44:42 gabrbedd, minor curiosity rather than odd c Jun 15 13:44:51 my code itself is obfuscated qml ;) Jun 15 14:01:44 Yay, but 18557 is fixed in the latest tablet image Jun 15 14:01:50 bug 18557, rather Jun 15 14:01:53 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18557 cri, High, ---, chengwei.yang, RELE FIXED, Installation freezes during live image copy Jun 15 14:02:23 nice fiferboy Jun 15 14:03:36 UI revamp seems to be in progress Jun 15 14:05:07 Looks nice, but functionality way down Jun 15 14:05:59 ah, who needs functionality when you have shine Jun 15 14:07:18 berndhs: True, I'll just enjoy the warm glow of the updated theme :) Jun 15 14:09:13 fiferboy, which image are you using (url link for those >> ) Jun 15 14:09:21 * lcuk waiting for dd Jun 15 14:10:36 lcuk: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/snapshots/testing/1.2.0.90/latest/images/meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail/ Jun 15 14:10:57 I just bookmarked the "latest" folder and check for new versions Jun 15 14:29:05 achipa, i have seen the demos of qml based game: samegame Jun 15 14:29:24 10*16 grid of particles Jun 15 14:29:33 so not taking by any means Jun 15 14:29:48 but something people would routinely play on the bus to/from work for instance Jun 15 14:30:15 i wonder how to produce a longevity graph Jun 15 14:30:32 to see how this could be optimised so people can play longer Jun 15 14:30:58 fancy pants animations are one thing, but keeping folks entertained for whole journey is another Jun 15 14:34:27 lcuk: oookay... ? Jun 15 14:34:37 Didn't even see you leave :P Jun 15 14:35:00 achipa, just pondering and voicing really Jun 15 14:35:41 samegame is something that can be tested because it is in every os Jun 15 15:08:14 Can any point me to an article or documentation on how I can make my Qt program look "native" on handset, netbook, tablet, etc Jun 15 15:08:40 My plain Qt program looks okay on desktop and netbook, but handset and tablet UX do not fit in with the theme Jun 15 15:09:05 fiferboy: its not just the theme, its the whole UX Jun 15 15:09:26 this is the big reason that Qt says to go Qt Quick now Jun 15 15:09:33 so that QML can be made for different UX. Jun 15 15:09:34 fiferboy: the idea is that you "only" replace the QML part Jun 15 15:09:44 My Qt app looks awesome under handset Jun 15 15:09:58 But it renders itself, doesn't use any widgets, all custom Jun 15 15:10:00 So first off that would mean porting my UI to QML away from QWidgets? Jun 15 15:10:07 yup Jun 15 15:10:17 So it looks the same on anything, with the exception of fonts. Jun 15 15:10:30 And then there would be (potential) changes to the QML based on the UX Jun 15 15:10:38 right, then you do your own branding, and forget the theme :) Jun 15 15:10:53 I guess this is the whole Qt Components vs MeeGo Components Jun 15 15:11:04 That's what I do for apps where it makes sense. Jun 15 15:12:01 If you're writing an app that say, extends the functionality of the system and is meant as an integration or augmentation, theming is the way to go. But self contained apps, games, etc. Should have their own custom Ux imo Jun 15 15:12:46 right, it there is more commonality in the app across verticals, it makes more sense to app-brand it Jun 15 15:12:51 alterego: I would prefer to avoid a custom UX (mostly due to my design ineptitude) Jun 15 15:13:07 fiferboy: :) Jun 15 15:13:15 But for all the "official" meego UX platforms I could use MeeGo UX Components? Jun 15 15:13:33 fiferboy: well, I suppose it does depend on your artistic talents and or whether you have UX designers. Jun 15 15:13:53 fiferboy: in 1.3 meego ux components should be everywhere. Jun 15 15:14:36 alterego: But not for QWidget-derived UI? Jun 15 15:14:46 fiferboy: if the components that you need are in the MeeGo Compliance spec... then you'll need to provide your own... e.g. a private copy of the Qt labs desktop components. Jun 15 15:15:09 fiferboy: qwidget is on it's way to deprecation. Jun 15 15:15:24 Gah, I guess it is time to finally learn QML :) Jun 15 15:15:30 gabrbedd: not in I'm guessing? Jun 15 15:15:30 it will be gone sometime after Qt 5 Jun 15 15:15:44 QML is not hard, just frustrating at times :) Jun 15 15:16:01 We really need more community involvement wrt meego ux components, real use cases from real app developers. Jun 15 15:16:08 I have made a couple of half-hearted attempts at porting simple GUI apps to QML Jun 15 15:16:08 I tried to build qt5 yesterday, still has all kinds of widgets Jun 15 15:16:22 and programmers really need to learn UI design Jun 15 15:16:26 berndhs: sure, but they're "deprecated" ;) Jun 15 15:16:30 if I have to bitch slap it into each and every one of them Jun 15 15:16:33 alterego: I'm sure some standard components lib will be part of Qt /eventually/ Jun 15 15:16:35 * CosmoHill did a course in UI design Jun 15 15:16:38 didn't do that well Jun 15 15:16:50 gabrbedd: definitely, qt-components is about that. Jun 15 15:17:04 CosmoHill: don't make any apps users will use. Jun 15 15:17:07 ;) Jun 15 15:17:12 alterego: And I wouldn't be surprised if meego ux comp's were part of 1.3 Core. Jun 15 15:17:12 TSCHAKeee: I actually have a book called "Universal Principles of Desgin" sitting beside me right now Jun 15 15:17:19 if I keep up my design they won't use them Jun 15 15:17:27 qwidgets are still ok for apps with just 1 big button Jun 15 15:18:06 CosmoHill: if all else fails. study and copy. Jun 15 15:18:11 steal. Jun 15 15:18:17 fork and fix Jun 15 15:18:20 please for the love of god Jun 15 15:18:27 yes then file a patent on what you copied Jun 15 15:18:32 programmers need to learn to make UIs that look okay. Jun 15 15:19:13 TSCHAKeee: Or programmers need to work with a designer to make their UIs look okay Jun 15 15:19:22 either or Jun 15 15:19:25 but most don't have that option. Jun 15 15:19:48 * TSCHAKeee is both programmer and designer in one. Jun 15 15:19:53 actually programmers need to learn to make UIs that look ok, artists need to learn to make UIs that function Jun 15 15:20:02 last website I got paid to do I did the programming and made is so the designer could just add his CSS sheet Jun 15 15:20:17 TSCHAKeee: either you're good or you're a rather large person Jun 15 15:20:36 hey, large persons can be competent too Jun 15 15:20:40 CosmoHill: I grew up in a family of both artists and engineers. Jun 15 15:20:55 tbh I was expecting you to say midgets for some reason Jun 15 15:25:42 * CosmoHill needs to stop watching kids tv Jun 15 15:30:23 Are meego ux components available in 1.2? Or 1.2.0.90? Jun 15 15:30:51 They're in N900 CE Jun 15 15:31:28 1.2, 1.2.0.90 Jun 15 15:33:47 fiferboy: also for Tablet UX, they're in there. I don't think they're in Netbook. Jun 15 15:34:09 Cool, Tablet UX and N900 CE will be mostly what I am testing on Jun 15 15:34:21 most designers take properly working programs and turn them into some kind of altar to their ego, rather than being concerned about the user actually getting stuff done... Jun 15 15:34:25 The QWidget version is themed properly on Netbook Jun 15 15:34:57 npm: was that a remark on my skillz :P Jun 15 15:34:58 or they design the application into failure from the get-go Jun 15 15:35:23 well maybe you're not one of the designers i've worked with Jun 15 15:36:20 e.g. turning a UI with proper relative layouts, all based on calculating sizes of components w/ resolution independence... all gone and replaced with pixel sizes Jun 15 15:37:09 i want a widget set that puts the designer inside the widgets, and makes them do the right thing. Jun 15 15:37:41 also, if there's a particular look to a given handset, then i don't want "design" i want it to look like all the other apps on that handset Jun 15 15:37:52 npm: you only see this from your perspective Jun 15 15:37:56 this is the problem Jun 15 15:38:12 programmers lack any and all aesthetic sense Jun 15 15:38:12 actually, the problem is designers see from their perspective too Jun 15 15:38:21 and lack the ability to even remotely understand it Jun 15 15:38:32 one pixel Jun 15 15:38:35 does Jun 15 15:38:37 make Jun 15 15:38:39 a difference Jun 15 15:38:40 and there really shouldn't be designers or programmers. if you're doing an app, you should be both Jun 15 15:39:07 no, one millimeter makes a difference. Jun 15 15:39:20 one pixel can be ten on a different platform Jun 15 15:39:42 indeed. Jun 15 15:40:40 npm, symbiosis. Jun 15 15:40:43 i was just as happy with square buttons too..., esp ones that you could clearly tell when they were clicked Jun 15 15:40:55 designer and developer working harmoniously as a team Jun 15 15:41:02 but then a "designer" gets through with it, and it becomes "art" and not very functional as a button Jun 15 15:41:10 but the developer should know the limits available Jun 15 15:41:24 as should the designer - designing to capabilities is something many miss Jun 15 15:41:44 npm buttons are more tricky actually Jun 15 15:41:45 I vote for one pixel checkered buttons, with accurate click tracking Jun 15 15:41:52 now with touch ui, your finger itself covers the button Jun 15 15:42:05 more important than that though is icons vs names Jun 15 15:42:09 and i just love watching my dad or son pecking away at their iphones... if that's the pinnacle of design... fail... Jun 15 15:42:31 wall of icons is confusing Jun 15 15:42:44 my real wall has real things on it Jun 15 15:42:49 the pinnacle of design is when you have a apple chip embedded in your brain Jun 15 15:42:59 using an iphone is like using an advent calendar Jun 15 15:43:05 (little door you have to open per day) Jun 15 15:43:22 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43126515/ns/business-retail/t/dont-call-them-fanboys-now-call-them-acolytes/ Jun 15 15:43:50 mri's of apple fanboys seeing apple icon similar response as devoutly religious w/ crucifix Jun 15 15:44:08 thus maligor's comment is true Jun 15 15:44:36 and so is lcuk's advent calendar Jun 15 15:44:38 :-) Jun 15 15:45:08 npm Jun 15 15:45:15 you can see the contents like a real calendar Jun 15 15:45:16 I guess Apple is the real american religion Jun 15 15:45:35 you do not need to open each day to know what it contains :) Jun 15 15:45:40 beats talking salamanders Jun 15 15:45:41 consumerism combined with religious overtones Jun 15 15:45:49 you might have to get closer to read all of it, but it is exactly as written Jun 15 15:48:54 lcuk: isn't that basically w7's boxes idea? Jun 15 15:49:47 having issues instaling from the latest tablet ux images ... Jun 15 15:49:48 npm, sigh Jun 15 15:49:59 windows boxes idea is over 2 years later than mine Jun 15 15:50:26 it just hangs with a systemd-fsck (well. that's the last line at least) Jun 15 15:50:27 well apple's finally paying up for ideas they've stolen from nokia... Jun 15 15:50:41 anyone else? Jun 15 15:50:50 so you never know what the future can bring lcuk Jun 15 15:51:01 npm, I have to wonder whether employers I have had over the time will be patenting ideas in my code done at nighttimes Jun 15 15:51:02 (been using meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.80.6.0.20110614.7.img) Jun 15 15:51:29 has anyone been watching the QML app reviews by all about symbian? Jun 15 15:51:30 (in this case, i think MS will just acquire their way out of it :-/ ) Jun 15 15:51:53 if they do, good thing if it is fair offer Jun 15 15:52:03 http://www.youtube.com/rafeaas Jun 15 15:52:09 i bet they're slapping themselves in the head right now about the nokia apple patent deal right now Jun 15 15:52:29 those apps are OK but they all suffer from the same problem: Jun 15 15:52:44 they all look completely different and the graphical quality is extremely variable Jun 15 15:53:53 Hello Jun 15 15:54:18 npm, I did see that Nokia offers patening help Jun 15 15:54:38 but since my work takes a number of years and different employers is tricky Jun 15 15:54:44 and melts my head completely to consider Jun 15 15:55:14 Gnu or LF ought to have a open-source patenting arm funded by going after closed source that steals their ideas Jun 15 15:55:42 yeah, and where is GNOME taking their primary inspiration from? .. Jun 15 15:55:43 :P Jun 15 15:55:45 i see mostly cloning of other apps in open source Jun 15 15:55:46 and they'd then force the losers to open source their closed source software in defeat Jun 15 15:55:56 it is rare to see such innovation that I normally play with Jun 15 15:57:00 ali1234: Qt Components should help in the Symbian case Jun 15 15:57:22 that's what i keep hearing Jun 15 15:57:28 Stskeeps, I could say that same about the current wayland screenshots from you Jun 15 15:57:29 ;) Jun 15 15:57:42 simpsons did it Jun 15 15:58:37 i think it's the other way around... closed source clones ideas from the research community and makes them "production".. often the work of the research community is and was open even before open source Jun 15 15:58:57 Xerox PARC's Alto -> Macintosh is good example Jun 15 15:59:13 i used an Alto, it was much better :-) Jun 15 16:00:14 I think I'll patent the idea of drawing an image by copying pixels from one buffer into another Jun 15 16:00:16 personally i'm not interested in innovation if it comes at the cost of my ability to fix problems that i encounter when the vendor refuses to help Jun 15 16:00:35 for example, 10-20 years ago, SigCHI was all about camera tracking UI's... now they're in games from MS Jun 15 16:00:53 where have I heard that before Jun 15 16:00:58 ah. RMS :) Jun 15 16:02:02 10-20 years ago the hardware required for camera tracking was really expensive Jun 15 16:02:28 probably used color coded gloves or something Jun 15 16:03:08 yep. but the ideas were all openly published -- http://www.billbuxton.com/InputSources.html Jun 15 16:04:32 then again perhaps that's cuz microsoft hired him :-) Jun 15 16:04:33 all patents are openly published Jun 15 16:04:53 you do know that the whole mocap field is one of the most heavily patented areas of CS right? Jun 15 16:05:16 i was talking about using the patent system for GNU purposes in the same way that the copyright system has been used. Jun 15 16:05:17 seeems that the tablet UX live image, when you select install-only, doesn't mount the root system properly Jun 15 16:06:26 if the patent holder insisted on open source, they could force a settlement where the patent violation is treated like a GPL violation.... Jun 15 16:06:58 mikhas: the 1.2.0.90 branch had that problem until the build from 20110614 Jun 15 16:07:11 yeah the only small problem with that is that FOSS projects don't hold any patents Jun 15 16:07:12 mikhas: Does it sound the same as bug 18557? Jun 15 16:07:14 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18557 cri, High, ---, chengwei.yang, RELE FIXED, Installation freezes during live image copy Jun 15 16:07:20 npm: Problem is that patents typically cost US $5k minimum... and that only covers the US. In contrast, getting a copyright is free. Jun 15 16:07:31 because everything they write was patented by researchers 20 years before Jun 15 16:07:51 yep, which is why the foundation would need to bootstrap itself first by forcing some payment from violators Jun 15 16:08:04 until it had a large enough patent portfolio to trade with the big boys Jun 15 16:08:51 npm: So... people plunk down $10k on a software patent so that we can.... stick it to the man? Jun 15 16:08:53 that makes no sense Jun 15 16:08:58 Not a very good ROI. Jun 15 16:09:09 Hum ... i can't update meego or install app on a fresh netbook install ! I think i ve found the bug ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqD9UaDpA_0 Jun 15 16:09:17 not stick it to the man. play on the same playing field Jun 15 16:13:02 fiferboy, no different Jun 15 16:13:08 I dont even get to see any UI Jun 15 16:14:40 mikhas: I don't have any experience installing the 1.2.80 branch Jun 15 16:14:54 npm, then get them talking with my employers over the period I wrote liqbase because i have a whole suite of innovations :) Jun 15 16:15:10 * lcuk can write c code but cannot write patent code Jun 15 16:15:54 lcuk: In the US, you have to apply for a patent within 1 year of your first public disclosure of the invention. Jun 15 16:16:13 gabrbedd, so I have until February next year then Jun 15 16:16:21 lcuk: And some countries don't even allow that. Jun 15 16:16:41 for something I wrote years ago but did not make use of Jun 15 16:19:39 * lcuk uploaded sketchfonts whilst at fosdem Jun 15 16:21:04 fiferboy, tablet UX images are just plain broken Jun 15 16:21:06 http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/7739604.html "Method and apparatus for managing windows" from Apple. references yours truly Jun 15 16:21:23 you dont even get a VKB Jun 15 16:21:37 uxlauncher doesnt launch for install-only Jun 15 16:21:41 windows key is not working Jun 15 16:21:50 maybe that's why the tablet UX doesn't have any managed windows. apple patented it :-) Jun 15 16:22:41 and then there's "Intelligent Scrolling" http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/7456850.html Jun 15 16:22:59 and another on drag and drop. pretty lame. Jun 15 16:23:54 we're seeing the fourth wave of recurring patent ideas here Jun 15 16:24:00 originally it was "do X" Jun 15 16:24:07 then it was "automate X" Jun 15 16:24:21 'automate x in a mobile' Jun 15 16:24:23 in the 80's it became "do X with a computer" Jun 15 16:24:29 npm, find me a patent for sending and recieving messages and presenting as handwritten notes. ie full circle back to original telegrams. Jun 15 16:24:35 and now we're seeing "..on a mobile device" Jun 15 16:24:42 which is what sketchfonts if fully implemented would do. Jun 15 16:25:02 lcuk: the fax machine ? :-) Jun 15 16:25:08 I had a lovely chat with one of the telecomms engineers at the museum of science and industry Jun 15 16:25:27 npm go for it Jun 15 16:26:26 mikhas: Recent Tablet UX in 1.2.0.90 look to be going through a transition too Jun 15 16:26:50 fiferboy mikhas -- see end of http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2011-June/004169.html for suggestions on making tablet UX better Jun 15 16:26:53 VKB doesn't input, setting dialog layout completely broken, missing images for lockscreen and panel Jun 15 16:27:09 aka "zypper in http://download.meego.com/live/Trunk:/Testing/standard/i586/meegotouch-inputmethodbridges-0.2.3-1.4.i586.rpm" and reboot Jun 15 16:27:31 npm, *tablet* requires GTK+ input context? Jun 15 16:27:38 that was supposed for netbooks only Jun 15 16:28:18 apparently... seems to give me input in progs i need input in... qt ones seem to have it Jun 15 16:28:22 auke: what happens to a process's ioprio when x-moblin-priority isn't set? Jun 15 16:28:27 npm, the description by aniello was hand typing. typing using your own handwriting :) Jun 15 16:28:31 tablet ux images work fine for me Jun 15 16:28:59 npm, well then ... thanks for our architect who rejected this very package to be part of MeeGo 1.2 Jun 15 16:29:41 sounds like a bug report should be filed Jun 15 16:30:04 was Jun 15 16:30:17 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14374 Jun 15 16:30:20 Bug 14374 nor, Medium, ---, x2rich, RELE FIXED, Virtual keyboard does not work in Gtk+ based applications Jun 15 16:31:20 i just work around for now, and hope for the future. not sure why that's sched'd for 1.3 when it ought to be in a 1.2 update Jun 15 16:31:39 fiferboy, do you know a last good tablet UX image then? Jun 15 16:31:53 npm, dont ask such difficult questions ;-) Jun 15 16:32:28 http://nielsmayer.com/meego/tab/meegotab-screenshots.html shows that the vkb in gnome is not w/o it's issues Jun 15 16:33:03 but at least i can run roxterm and have a vkb to kill processes, even if it's "blind" because you end up typing behind the vjb Jun 15 16:33:06 vkb Jun 15 16:33:46 is there a c to patent converter? Jun 15 16:35:55 Heh Jun 15 16:37:50 * CosmoHill grumbles cos his program ignored the CFLAGS and is displaying errors Jun 15 16:38:00 s/errors/warnings/ Jun 15 16:38:29 Stskeeps, why is there no http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.3 ? Jun 15 16:38:32 mikhas: 20110529 for 1.2.0.90 Jun 15 16:38:33 like we had for 1.2 Jun 15 16:38:34 lcuk: file a FEA request in bugzilla Jun 15 16:38:42 fiferboy, thanks Jun 15 16:38:52 berndhs, lol Jun 15 16:39:15 I would rather just get on and make lots of products but it seems nobody know how to become a vendor Jun 15 16:39:20 it would be a useful, income-generating feature Jun 15 16:39:29 * lcuk would try and direct folks and be a vendor Jun 15 16:39:43 mikhas: i'm not in RE, ask meego-releases@ Jun 15 16:39:55 I just want to be able to buy real wall calendar to install in my mums house Jun 15 16:40:04 she would be even more proud of me when I accomplish that :) Jun 15 16:40:16 oh, I was under the impression you were Jun 15 16:40:33 and no, I am subscribed to enough ML's already ... Jun 15 16:40:43 my mom was plenty prpoud of me, doesn't do anything for steady income :) Jun 15 16:41:01 why do I always need to subscribe to a ML in MeeGo, even if I only want to ask a single question, sigh Jun 15 16:41:35 mikhas: another FEA, generate a new ML for every new question Jun 15 16:41:50 berndhs, oh you ... Jun 15 16:42:46 berndhs, hence the vendor part - putting heavy work into trying to ensure that meego can be used for such purposes Jun 15 16:42:56 then if I get that organised can sell in bulk Jun 15 16:43:05 and make plenty of money :) Jun 15 16:43:27 shipping is where it's at, not production Jun 15 16:43:57 very far off topic and it is tea time anyway, bbl Jun 15 17:14:38 Is there any way to work around the problems installing MeeGo SDK on 11.04? Jun 15 17:15:30 what is 11.04? is that an Ubuntu number? Jun 15 17:16:38 andre__: Yes, sorry. Ubuntu 11.04 Jun 15 17:16:55 fiferboy, a better thing would be to say what errors it has? Jun 15 17:17:04 so what are the problems? is there a bug report? Jun 15 17:17:20 Ah, I see there is a bug report. Bug 16884 Jun 15 17:17:23 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16884 nor, High, ---, max.a.yu, NEW, installer does not work on Ubuntu 11.04 Jun 15 17:17:44 Add support middle of July :| Jun 15 17:19:50 Looks like it is repository issues Jun 15 17:21:44 evening jukkaeklund \o Jun 15 17:22:06 fiferboy, you could try installing a reasonable OS to do sdk work Jun 15 17:22:09 like meego :) Jun 15 17:22:35 lcuk, hi there Jun 15 17:23:10 lcuk: MeeGo isn't listed as a supported OS for the SDK :) Jun 15 17:25:45 :O RLY? Jun 15 17:26:56 lcuk: I guess because it isn't listed doesn't mean it won't work Jun 15 17:27:07 I know the qa guys run the test cases there Jun 15 17:27:23 but meego netbook is usually smallish screen - unless I plug it into my monitor Jun 15 17:27:32 the ideapad runs at 1920*1080 or whatever there Jun 15 17:28:30 I was considering installing it on the Netbook UX, I don't see why it wouldn't work Jun 15 17:28:50 it would make it a sensible thing then Jun 15 17:28:55 using meego to build more meego Jun 15 17:29:14 Anyone know if there's a general announce list for people announcing releases of Qt software? Jun 15 17:29:29 Something Trolltech uses to keep track of software & app authors can use to get the word out? Jun 15 17:29:35 'twould be nice Jun 15 17:29:43 dneary: ml maybe? Jun 15 17:29:51 And their blog I'd imagine Jun 15 17:30:06 Oh qt apps Jun 15 17:30:13 There is the qt apps site. Jun 15 17:30:30 Don't think it's too official. Jun 15 17:30:40 Hmm, installing the older version of the SDK with a work around seems to be uninstalling most of my Ubuntu desktop... Jun 15 17:30:48 alterego, I found a forum on qtcenter Jun 15 17:31:13 dneary, any decent apps we can put onto the n900-de ? Jun 15 17:31:28 or are most apps now aiming for bigger heavy hardware? Jun 15 17:32:08 * alterego still needs a simple idea for a "world changing" app for this weekends hactivate Jun 15 17:32:21 I hope they give out goodie bags, Jun 15 17:32:30 * alterego really wants a qt enabled N8 Jun 15 17:32:36 lcuk, Seems to be mostly a support forum rather than app announcements Jun 15 17:32:55 http://www.qtcentre.org/forums/16-Qt-based-Software Jun 15 17:33:30 dneary, according to my (very random) research, the best qt app is qonsole or whatever the console it Jun 15 17:34:22 lcuk, Do you have examples of community developed apps in MeeGo core? Jun 15 17:34:25 That would be really good Jun 15 17:34:32 I know people talk about Peregrine Jun 15 17:34:35 And the dialer Jun 15 17:34:44 But isn't it Shane Bryan that's doing the dialler? Jun 15 17:34:56 http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder/ITP Jun 15 17:35:00 there is the meego ITP Jun 15 17:35:07 which lists some/all the apps put forwards Jun 15 17:35:30 one of the better qt apps in terms of delivering o nthe qt promise is Venemo's Puzzle-master Jun 15 17:35:40 which is now available on the 23842387423265234 operating systems qt supports Jun 15 17:36:26 dneary: Shane Bryan is managing the dialler, but the current QML version is alterego Jun 15 17:37:33 Jaffa, qml dialer is n900-ce at this time, it is not in core as far as I know Jun 15 17:37:44 garrr.... Bugzilla, where you can click and do something that you don't understand, like mass-moving some reports to the Security product for no reason whatsoever, just to make those reports inaccessible. Jun 15 17:37:44 when transformed to meego-ux-components, maybe Jun 15 17:37:45 * lcuk may be wrong Jun 15 17:38:07 * andre__ needs tranquilizers Jun 15 17:38:47 andre__: why did i just get a flashback of you running in a jungle being hunted by people with tranquilizer guns? Jun 15 17:38:51 :P Jun 15 17:39:05 Jaffa, OK Jun 15 17:39:08 IC Jun 15 17:39:23 Stskeeps: which one of our LSD trips was that one again? Jun 15 17:39:36 andre__: good question :P Jun 15 17:39:52 ahhh Jun 15 17:40:00 MeeGo SF 2011 was not san fran Jun 15 17:40:06 it was MeeGo Safari 2011! Jun 15 17:40:17 lcuk: you know, that would explain the keynote a lot beter.. Jun 15 17:40:37 lcuk: QML branch of dialler was merged to trunk just before the conference, IIRC Jun 15 17:40:38 * lcuk will try and deliver a short talk this weekend Jun 15 17:40:53 Jaffa, ask alterego he will know Jun 15 17:41:00 we do not have to IIRC ;) Jun 15 17:41:26 lcuk: I meant the timing is IIRC. I quite clearly remember the announcement about it becoming the main MeeGo dialler :-p Jun 15 17:41:52 lcuk: http://www.mail-archive.com/meego-dev@meego.com/msg09722.html Jun 15 17:43:50 Jaffa, merged but still remaining as MTF for now Jun 15 17:44:27 the QML dialer does not yet count for all required feature tests Jun 15 17:44:42 so people with those images based on master will not see qml Jun 15 17:48:18 lcuk: ? The branch has been merged to the trunk. Jun 15 17:49:09 Jaffa, read the proceeding email from that 2 mail thread ;) Jun 15 17:49:22 2. The UI is now a runtime (and compile time) selectible option: Jun 15 17:49:22 QML UI: Jun 15 17:49:23 $ /usr/bin/dialer -ux meego-ux-components Jun 15 17:49:23 MTF UI: Jun 15 17:49:23 $ /usr/bin/dialer -ux meegotouch Jun 15 17:49:23 The default will remain "meegotouch" (MTF) for now, until we draw Jun 15 17:49:25 closer to Feature equivalence Jun 15 17:49:29 Jaffa, lcuk the QML dialer seems default for me Jun 15 17:49:30 note the sentence at the foot Jun 15 17:50:04 but of course I might be wrong Jun 15 17:51:40 * lcuk wonders how you can tell if something is qml or not by looking Jun 15 17:52:04 QML dialer UI is the master in meego dialer, yes Jun 15 17:52:24 has been for s few weeks Jun 15 17:52:25 jukkaeklund, on the n900-de or trunk for meego images? Jun 15 17:52:27 a few Jun 15 17:52:39 lcuk, master as in meego gitorious Jun 15 17:52:44 so trunk Jun 15 17:53:28 jukkaeklund, that email from sabotage was only a few weeks ago saying that, yes qml dialer is there, but that the MTFone was being used still? Jun 15 17:55:48 lcuk: the "MTF" UI is still the default in git master branch Jun 15 17:55:53 ah ok Jun 15 17:55:56 sorry Jun 15 17:55:59 but will likely be changing that this week Jun 15 17:56:17 jukkaeklund and lcuk: you are both correct Jun 15 17:56:41 the current master has *both* QML and MTF ui versions Jun 15 17:56:50 but it's CLI selectable Jun 15 17:56:54 even better :) Jun 15 17:57:18 today, the default (no CLI options given) is to use MTF ui Jun 15 17:57:35 later (this week) the default will be QML Jun 15 17:57:52 * lcuk slides beers all round since we were all on the right track Jun 15 17:57:53 then I will start gutting the MTF bits Jun 15 17:58:23 but it's a bit complicated due to also trying to move to libofono-qt at the same time Jun 15 18:04:04 2 Jun 15 18:08:57 what's the last tablet image that actually installs? Jun 15 18:10:28 with recent images the installer never finishes it's thing Jun 15 18:17:32 But note in my DE deliverables, I compile time default QML UX Jun 15 18:17:43 MTF is then selectable via command line or gconf. Jun 15 18:18:04 But trunk dialer defaults to MTF, my CE package from trunk defaults to QML Jun 15 18:18:13 timoph -- maybe it's fixed in latest? http://mirrors1.kernel.org/meego/builds/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.4.20110614.1/builddata/reports/repodiff-1.2.0.90.3.20110607.2-1.2.0.90.4.20110614.1.html Jun 15 18:18:51 i'm updating now... Jun 15 18:19:14 but not by "image install" which is kinda lame, if you've already got meego running Jun 15 18:20:29 315 packages to upgrade, 3 to downgrade, 1 to change vendor, 1 to change arch. Jun 15 18:20:34 what's the name of the terminal in MeeGo? Jun 15 18:21:24 'zypper info gnome-terminal' Jun 15 18:21:45 thank you Jun 15 18:22:03 now I can copy and paste from chromium to gnome-terminal in TWM Jun 15 18:22:16 now why is that claimed to be in package 'non-oss' ?? Jun 15 18:22:39 doh Jun 15 18:22:55 because i left out "non" in the non-oss.repo file Jun 15 18:23:10 nevermind Jun 15 18:23:17 thanks for catching my error :-) Jun 15 18:24:06 i'm not even sure why non-oss is in there. is there anything used from it on the ExoPC tablet? Jun 15 18:25:27 npm: What version are you updating from? Jun 15 18:25:41 trunk of last week Jun 15 18:25:59 npm: 1.2.0.90 branch? Jun 15 18:26:08 yeah Jun 15 18:26:31 Whenever I try doing a command-line upgrade it ends up bailing in the middle and leaving the system unusable Jun 15 18:26:32 why is that a mistake? Jun 15 18:27:04 well i check before i reboot with an init 3 ; init 5 Jun 15 18:27:42 For me it seems to update the rpm libraries, bails the update, and won't execute any zypper commands after that Jun 15 18:28:07 i do a bunch of voodoo first Jun 15 18:28:17 npm: Ooo, what is your voodoo? Jun 15 18:28:21 fiferboy: If you're doing massive upgrades... yeah, I've found that to happen. Jun 15 18:28:25 sudo zypper clean --all Jun 15 18:28:33 sudo zypper --gpg-auto-import-keys refresh Jun 15 18:28:48 fiferboy: But usually after a reboot I can simply fire off `zypper dup` and it'll pick up where it left off. Jun 15 18:28:49 gabrbedd: I usually just do a clean install, but the installer was broken for a couple weeks Jun 15 18:28:52 sudo zypper dup --from 'MeeGo:1.2:non-oss (MeeGo_1.2)' --from 'MeeGo:1.2:oss (standard)' --from 'adobe' Jun 15 18:29:27 * fiferboy writes down zypper voodoo Jun 15 18:29:34 fiferboy: I do both. If you can't continue after a reboot that's major bad. If you can, that's normal juju. Jun 15 18:29:38 sudo rm -f /etc/prelink.cache ; sudo /etc/cron.daily/prelink ; sudo rm -f /etc/readahead.packed ; sudo /etc/init.d/sreadahead-pack start Jun 15 18:31:12 you may not need all the args spelled out like i have, but i got http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem and i don't want fedora interfering w/ my updates Jun 15 18:31:35 npm: Thanks, that looks helpful Jun 15 18:32:36 i'm running my 'post upgrade' script which does the prelink/readahead whackage Jun 15 18:36:35 * npm plays http://velocityconf.com/velocity2011/public/content/video as background music Jun 15 18:39:33 it survived init 3 ; init 5, though scary for a while because it took much longer to launch than normal Jun 15 18:41:26 npm: Does your "Settings" program look right? Jun 15 18:42:27 question: wat constitues an "app" Jun 15 18:42:39 could I begin live uploading new apps as fast I draw them? Jun 15 18:42:54 complete full app - designed to re-render what I draw here Jun 15 18:43:01 installer and app icon and everything Jun 15 18:43:11 +typing fixes Jun 15 18:43:22 settings works Jun 15 18:45:36 The main settings screen looks messed up for my new install of 20110614 Jun 15 18:46:42 well it's messed up in that the toplevel wastes space and doesn't tell you there's stuff below general Jun 15 18:47:03 but in it's simplistic looking form, it seems ok Jun 15 18:47:59 Ok. My top level has all the entries printed overtop of each other and half off the top of the screen Jun 15 18:49:05 when you did your upgrades, did you check for rpmnew files, and integrate them? Jun 15 18:49:27 npm: I just did an install with the 20110614 image Jun 15 18:50:00 oh a fresh install? can't help you there. Jun 15 18:50:32 the last fresh install on this tablet was at meego conf at intel booth Jun 15 18:50:46 I'll try the next image before I get too worried. It looks like things were caught in the middle of a transition Jun 15 19:01:25 well it rebooted ok and seems to work, perhaps a little better Jun 15 19:05:34 actually, a lot better :-) Jun 15 19:07:09 npm: Does the interface seem to be updated? Slightly different theme and graphics? Jun 15 19:07:29 that happened on the first update Jun 15 19:09:09 Yeah, I knew it happened sometime in June I just wasn't sure when :) Jun 15 19:09:28 hey guys, has someone tried the latest meego-builds on a wetab / exopc? i don't get them installed Jun 15 19:09:48 see above Jun 15 19:09:51 :-) Jun 15 19:09:55 yes. worksforme Jun 15 19:10:26 blindfish: Recent builds had a bug with the installer until today Jun 15 19:10:33 Latest image installs properly Jun 15 19:11:00 ooh, thank you ;) Jun 15 19:11:16 then i guess i have to try it Jun 15 19:12:30 uhmm ... the 1.2.80-images were the stable-ones, right? Jun 15 19:13:04 blindfish: No, those are the 1.3 devel images Jun 15 19:13:19 1.2.0.90 are the 1.2.1 devel images Jun 15 19:14:36 okay, thanks ;) Jun 15 19:36:43 are there any AMD developers in here? Jun 15 20:13:44 anyone try running http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Nook_Color ? Jun 15 20:56:32 paroneayea, I guess some people around meego have else hte page would not exist Jun 15 20:56:53 lcuk: :) Jun 15 20:57:39 if you want to send me a nook over I will give it a try Jun 15 21:01:04 Venemo_, :) Jun 15 21:01:06 once again Jun 15 21:01:18 http://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/puzzle-master/trees/master/rpm Jun 15 21:01:23 hey lcuk Jun 15 21:01:37 you have the rpm info and .spec file inside your package in an understandable manner Jun 15 21:01:51 thanks :) Jun 15 21:02:05 minor thing I bet, when you pull the version Jun 15 21:02:13 the spec file remains at 1.22 or whatever? Jun 15 21:02:14 ? Jun 15 21:02:28 ok Jun 15 21:02:35 you run the script create-spm.sh Jun 15 21:02:38 I update the .spec file (along with the debian/changelog file) when I decide to bump the app version Jun 15 21:02:45 it extracts version number from git Jun 15 21:02:49 then I run the shell script to simplify my life Jun 15 21:02:50 based on git tag stuff Jun 15 21:02:58 and makes a .tar.gz as required for rpmbuild Jun 15 21:03:08 oh yeah, after bumping the version number, I indeed make a git tag too Jun 15 21:03:12 right, but could you use sed Jun 15 21:03:18 to use that same version number Jun 15 21:03:25 in the newly copied .spec file Jun 15 21:03:32 indeed... I haven't thought of that yet Jun 15 21:03:46 it was just noticing the version number inside the spec Jun 15 21:03:53 very nice little workflow helper anyway :) Jun 15 21:04:02 and because it is in with your code, it is understandable too Jun 15 21:04:05 * lcuk smiles Jun 15 21:04:47 hey, bumping version numbers is hard work Jun 15 21:05:13 I could make a bump-version.sh script that would update the version number 1) in the .pro file 2) in the util.h file 3) in the debian/changelog file 4) in the .spec file Jun 15 21:05:18 Venemo, and also writing the changelog entries Jun 15 21:08:08 Venemo, the wince package info looks complex Jun 15 21:08:29 lcuk, that is a project file generated by Visual Studio Jun 15 21:08:41 yeah Jun 15 21:08:49 and I haven't tested it since 1.0.x :S (not having a Windows+VS2008 install right now) Jun 15 21:09:13 I will probably fix it when my GF lends me her omnia II again Jun 15 21:09:29 but I'm afraid that QGV will perform extremely badly on it anyway Jun 15 21:15:59 lcuk, this is usually not the "standard" way of doing RPM though Jun 15 21:16:22 no, the standard way is to keep packaging and development distinct Jun 15 21:16:28 indeed Jun 15 21:16:31 but it lets the process be seen Jun 15 21:16:48 and understood in context Jun 15 21:16:48 the packaging info is usually kept in the distros' VCS Jun 15 21:16:59 but usually the packager and the developer are different persons Jun 15 21:17:13 since I package my own app, I invented this little shortcut for myself Jun 15 21:17:14 but packaging requires meta info that the original developer usually sorts out? Jun 15 21:17:57 packaging requires some metadata (app name, description, etc), and a way to build the app. Jun 15 21:18:52 Venemo, yes - in a way .tar.gz: ./configure; make; sudo make install would be best of all Jun 15 21:18:56 yep Jun 15 21:18:58 the standard way of rpm packaging works very effectively when you package something that wasn't created by yourself Jun 15 21:19:14 ie an upstream only distro Jun 15 21:19:16 usually the package's build part also uses those commands lcuk :) Jun 15 21:19:23 yep. Jun 15 21:19:32 and this is a _LOT_ easier to do than deb Jun 15 21:19:37 but that requires having a group of people actively scanning the multiverse and being fluent in packaging Jun 15 21:19:51 yeah Jun 15 21:20:31 it is basically the mechanism, "hey, I found a cool app! I want to get it into my favourite distro!" - so you download their tarball and make a spec and submit it for review Jun 15 21:20:31 I see timoph and lbt and a couple of others who can just "meh; here you go" when given a new app Jun 15 21:20:45 but they have real other tasks to be doing Jun 15 21:20:59 Venemo, talent scouts Jun 15 21:21:07 what do you mean? Jun 15 21:21:17 people who go and seek the apps Jun 15 21:21:25 Hello there! Jun 15 21:21:31 well, I usually more like stumble upon them rather than seek them Jun 15 21:21:35 hello user0, what's up? :) Jun 15 21:21:39 how are you geeks doing today? Jun 15 21:21:47 we are doing fine Jun 15 21:21:52 * lcuk is notably not a geek Jun 15 21:21:59 not much Jun 15 21:22:06 just sent my n900 back to the shop Jun 15 21:22:13 * Venemo notes that lcuk is definitely a geek Jun 15 21:22:23 Venemo, :O how Jun 15 21:22:50 lcuk : it was a complement not an insult :) Jun 15 21:23:00 indeed :) Jun 15 21:23:03 well then ok :P Jun 15 21:23:53 i have to get back to choosing what to hacktivate this weekend Jun 15 21:24:02 liq? Jun 15 21:24:40 did i express how useless the rescue initrd was ? Jun 15 21:24:54 http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/blog/2011/jun/01/hactivate Jun 15 21:25:17 i still didnt get what the usb networking function's for if theres no telnetd or sshd Jun 15 21:26:38 its like you can get ping replies from the device , but you cant access it remotely Jun 15 21:27:05 was a major was of time, ended up sending it back for them to deal with the problem Jun 15 21:27:39 it, as in the device... Jun 15 21:27:41 sounds reasonable Jun 15 21:27:49 I have not tried the rescue initrd Jun 15 21:28:00 thankfully my machines have been mostly stable Jun 15 21:28:07 and if not a flash has put them back Jun 15 21:28:40 :) Jun 15 21:29:48 btw someone needs to add to the wiki page that you need rd mode enabled for the rescue initrd to work Jun 15 21:30:14 else the device will keep restarting and the screen lights will be off Jun 15 21:31:42 user0, since you know the wiki page (because you read it) and know the issue Jun 15 21:31:52 please edit it yourself to get the wording correct Jun 15 21:32:19 i'd need an account Jun 15 21:32:38 cant be worth the time :P Jun 15 21:33:18 + it doesnt even work correctly , so removing the wiki page may even be a better option! Jun 15 21:38:25 user0, yeah, I did need to get my device to R&D mode when I used the rescue initrd Jun 15 21:39:12 damn connection Jun 15 21:39:24 Venemo : same here Jun 15 21:40:23 question about brightness from rm_you Jun 15 21:40:26 i never got HAL support functioning Jun 15 21:40:26 does Meego use HAL? Jun 15 21:40:26 or DSME still Jun 15 21:40:34 for operating the screen brightness Jun 15 21:40:44 Stskeeps, perhaps you may have spotted? Jun 15 21:40:57 (asking you because you helped with brightness nobble on n8x0 days) Jun 15 21:54:25 lcuk: meego doesn't use hal Jun 16 00:24:14 cyas **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 16 02:59:57 2011