**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 17 02:59:56 2011 Jun 17 03:48:02 hiyas Jun 17 03:51:37 evening Jun 17 04:37:46 any update on the nookcolor? I've been keeping an eye on the wiki and forums Jun 17 05:10:11 * btdrucke is away: I'm busy Jun 17 05:36:33 wdouglas: need a good laugh? Jun 17 05:37:06 sofar: Surely Jun 17 05:37:29 ran a bootchart on my home box and started seeing the weirdest crashes and corruption in it Jun 17 05:37:56 wdouglas: the error was.... #define MAXCPUS 8 Jun 17 05:37:57 :) Jun 17 05:38:07 12 core i7 lmao Jun 17 05:38:15 sofar: Hah darn i7 Jun 17 05:38:44 cpu stat data was overwriting all the basic accounting hehehe Jun 17 05:39:27 sofar: Yea, that's rough. Odd it didn't have any behavior changes for more cpus. Jun 17 05:39:32 it's technically a hyperthreaded 6-core i7 Jun 17 05:39:55 well duh Jun 17 05:39:58 of course Jun 17 05:40:30 that's not the funny part :P Jun 17 05:40:41 Jun 17 05:43:47 I really need to roll another patch for meego's systemd. My lenovo died a horrible death again so time to slam in the latest from trunk again. Jun 17 05:44:17 Ulf gave me an xfce4 image today that booted properly Jun 17 05:44:30 but it was missing all the basic xfce apps lol Jun 17 05:45:12 so what was the end result of 'netbook ux doesn't work properly on 1.3' discussion? to look into meego ux on netbook or xfce? Jun 17 05:46:24 nah, xfce4 is just a fallback/hobby thing of mine Jun 17 05:46:30 :nod: Jun 17 05:46:46 once in a while it's useful for starting a new platform since it doesn't need 3d, but has a full ui Jun 17 05:47:04 it would be nice if we could fall back on mesa llvmpipe actually Jun 17 05:47:08 I seem to just use virtual terminals even if the ux works =P Jun 17 05:47:15 netbook UX in it's current form is probably EOL Jun 17 05:47:36 wdouglas: no connman cli tool Jun 17 05:47:46 connman-tests ;) Jun 17 05:47:50 wdouglas: that's why I call Xorg a 'terminal multiplexer' Jun 17 05:47:50 Haha Jun 17 05:48:03 I still wish I could make someone write a connman-cli Jun 17 05:48:20 can't believe the only connman UI that is reliable is the clutter one :( Jun 17 05:48:24 Terrible shame it is missing that Jun 17 05:48:50 I am always confused when something has a UI only config Jun 17 05:49:05 But it isn't like wifi works on the lenovo atm anyway Jun 17 05:49:32 take out battery, put it back in, reset bios settings, that solves the rfkill issue for me :P Jun 17 05:50:26 If only rfkill was broadcom's biggest problem Jun 17 05:51:08 :nod: Jun 17 05:51:46 I am really happy with all the progress that has been made in dealing with proxy stuff though. http goes fine and I only need to manually set https now Jun 17 05:51:50 brb testing - making a bootchart of my systemd@homebox Jun 17 05:51:58 Woo Jun 17 05:54:16 bootchart a go go Jun 17 05:55:23 wow, that's worse than I thought it would be Jun 17 05:56:00 You don't have enough pessimism Jun 17 06:08:52 well, I'm gonna zone out but basically readahead with systemd isn't working on my platform Jun 17 06:09:42 needs more super readahead =) Jun 17 06:12:43 Jun 16 23:09:08 localhost systemd-readahead-collect[3942]: Disabling readahead collector due to low memory. Jun 17 06:12:51 6g memory... stupid Jun 17 06:13:43 heh :> Jun 17 06:15:38 ^^ Jun 17 07:21:47 hey Jun 17 07:22:05 does anyone know any good utlities for windoes? Jun 17 07:22:28 windows Jun 17 07:52:50 Morning, all Jun 17 07:54:29 morn jaffa Jun 17 08:19:56 hi Jun 17 08:46:33 ehlo! Jun 17 08:46:47 What is the state of Mono in MeeGo? Jun 17 08:47:18 only builds on x86 Jun 17 08:47:19 I'm going to look into the repos to see what I can find but I'm a little suspicious that there isn't much Mono in MeeGo as of yet. Jun 17 08:47:28 only used in netbook ux for banshee Jun 17 08:47:36 Aha. Jun 17 08:47:37 Okay Jun 17 08:47:39 not part of meego core or required Jun 17 08:47:41 Stskeeps: Thanks Jun 17 08:47:54 I see, but it is _packaged_? Jun 17 08:48:02 yes Jun 17 08:48:09 Okay, cool. Jun 17 08:48:12 i think it's an ancient version, too Jun 17 08:48:18 ah, okay Jun 17 08:48:26 I suppose I should install it and test. :/ Jun 17 08:48:43 what could you possibly need it for, btw? :P Jun 17 08:48:59 Stskeeps: Damn good question. Jun 17 08:49:16 Stskeeps: It turns out there is a company (centrafuse) that has ported a windows app to Ubuntu Jun 17 08:49:29 And folks in MeeGo IVI want that app in MeeGo Jun 17 08:49:35 It is written in C# Jun 17 08:49:47 And they ported it to Ubuntu with Mono Jun 17 08:49:48 mmkay Jun 17 08:49:55 well, nothing stops them Jun 17 08:50:00 It's not a technology that I am particularly fond of. Jun 17 08:50:19 But, as per usual, it isn't up to me Jun 17 08:50:20 Tomboy is a good mono app i would like to see in Meego :) Jun 17 08:50:21 just like i used java JRE for netbanking on meego netbook Jun 17 08:50:29 Khertan_: I agree, Tomboy is a good app Jun 17 08:50:56 i've compiled all things for meego netbook 1.0 Jun 17 08:51:05 _all_ thing? Jun 17 08:51:07 Cools Jun 17 08:51:09 but didn't have taken the time to do it for last release Jun 17 08:51:37 jeremiah: it s just a compilation ... didn't got problem at the time to compile mono and run it on meego Jun 17 08:51:51 at least the part used by tomboy Jun 17 08:52:09 Wow, very cool Jun 17 08:53:08 www.centrafuse.com for those who care. Jun 17 08:53:21 Those are the guys who are porting the Mono app Jun 17 08:58:06 Mono 2.6.3 in netbook ux Jun 17 09:07:59 Hi there Jun 17 09:08:50 I'm testing bluetooth in a netbook Jun 17 09:09:08 and I have a little doubt Jun 17 09:09:28 when I'm sending a file from the netbook to other device Jun 17 09:09:39 and I cancel the transfer Jun 17 09:09:50 the focus goes to the background Jun 17 09:10:02 it should be like this? Jun 17 12:43:24 re Jun 17 13:00:56 hi, I am looking for some help with installing meego into kvm. I have used virt-manager and added a new virtual machine of generic type and used the netbook image as the iso Jun 17 13:01:44 the installation seems to succeed just fine and I am prompted to press any key at the end, so that it can restart Jun 17 13:02:01 when it restarts it never manages to boot the new virtual machine Jun 17 13:03:43 has anyone encountered a similar issue ? Jun 17 13:09:38 can someone explain how I know when I should go to download.meego.com and when I should go to repo.meego.com ? Jun 17 13:11:39 download.meego.com only if you work with meego development directly, ie, needing to access for example Trunk:Testing or investigate devel:* projects Jun 17 13:12:34 so 'repo' is actually more stable than download Jun 17 13:12:46 I somehow interpret that the other way around Jun 17 13:13:13 repo is mirrored too. Jun 17 13:13:57 download is unstable, slow, etc :) Jun 17 13:14:09 and repo is not volatile Jun 17 13:14:37 volatile? Jun 17 13:14:55 things don't just vanish Jun 17 13:15:22 I hear that we've been using download and some things have gone away Jun 17 13:15:26 right Jun 17 13:15:51 there's an archive being set up as well, generally after a long while, some of the intermediate version *.80 *.90 moves to archive Jun 17 13:15:59 OK .. we need a header/footer on those directory views to explain this Jun 17 13:16:12 i think they documented the repos on wiki somewhere actually Jun 17 13:16:13 the nice meego is cute but really not helpful ;) Jun 17 13:16:41 http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Repo_List Jun 17 13:16:44 possibly Jun 17 13:25:04 hmmm ... the http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/ page should really have some kind of pointer to an informative wiki page Jun 17 13:35:59 Hi there! Jun 17 13:36:36 Where can I download the 1.3 meego version for netbook?? Jun 17 13:37:22 you mean development versions? Jun 17 13:37:38 1.2 is the latest release Jun 17 13:37:47 BestiaH: i don't think we have one yet :) Jun 17 13:39:06 hmmm Jun 17 13:39:24 but I have find some test results of this version... Jun 17 13:39:45 what sort of test results? Jun 17 14:54:39 evening Jun 17 15:02:46 * Jaffa didn't think the MeeGo N900 DE -> CE name change had been well advertised given how many blogs have reused my tweet about it Jun 17 15:03:11 Would have done so sooner, but there wasn't really anything to link to AFAICT. Communications' fail ;_0 Jun 17 15:03:19 s/;_O/;-)/ Jun 17 15:03:38 Jaffa: mailing list archives or forum post? Jun 17 15:03:44 or wiki? Jun 17 15:03:53 a highly important change, it'll change the way we think about the world Jun 17 15:04:01 :) Jun 17 15:04:54 timoph: I didn't see anything on meego-* mailing lists about it until the meego-qa post today. Mostly referenced on IRC as a fait accompli, so no real source to credit. Jun 17 15:05:17 timoph: The wiki is still inconsistent and doesn't/didn't contain a categorical statement on it. Didn't check the forums Jun 17 15:05:24 timoph: Is there a post there? Jun 17 15:05:30 I thought jukka posted it to the handset ml Jun 17 15:05:47 * timoph checks Jun 17 15:06:34 http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3540 Jun 17 15:07:16 http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-handset/2011-June/000482.html Jun 17 15:08:26 timoph: Ah yes, cool - thank you Jun 17 15:08:33 np Jun 17 15:11:29 the wiki page is particularly enlightening :P Jun 17 15:12:57 yep Jun 17 15:14:12 berndhs: Trailing stop Jun 17 15:32:42 Anyone know what Mike Shaver's IRC nick is? Jun 17 15:32:55 I'm hoping he's online, and just not in here Jun 17 15:37:10 it's mrshaver Jun 17 15:38:17 ~seen mrshaver Jun 17 15:38:28 mrshaver <~Adium@nat/intel/x-mrqgmzrkzwnybuab> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 272d 21h 55m 55s ago, saying: 'lbt: Hi David, want to jump over to #meego-cas for a second?'. Jun 17 15:44:53 he's not in #meego very often Jun 17 15:45:03 but he's usually on other IM Jun 17 15:48:34 I'm guessing the nokia meego device will infact be a wrist watch Jun 17 15:49:02 Commodore-Amiga flashbacks Jun 17 15:54:23 wristwatch with dual-core Atom, I like it Jun 17 15:56:47 warms the wrist on those cold winter nights Jun 17 16:00:49 should be possible to improve on the ZYPAD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wristwatch_computer Jun 17 16:00:49 Stskeeps: did your "MeeGo UX" e-mail thread ever get anywhere? I think I only saw 1 reply. Jun 17 16:02:26 berndhs, I wouldn't be surprised if the introductory price was the same Jun 17 16:03:30 perhaps its available throught the device program https://meego.com/community/blogs/texrat/2011/formally-launching-meego-community-device-program Jun 17 16:13:32 lollers Jun 17 16:15:50 berndhs: I think the therm you're looking for is "Space Ranger" Jun 17 16:16:58 gabrbedd: tehre was a 1965 Science Fiction TV series with write computers, those were smaller :) Jun 17 16:18:16 berndhs: Looks like the computer on Buzz Lightyear's gauntlets. Jun 17 16:19:24 easier way is probably making a wristband clamp for N900s Jun 17 16:19:39 I'm not sure why I just suddenly thought that meego needs a Tricorder UX Jun 17 16:19:57 :-) Jun 17 16:20:42 Future proofing meego Jun 17 16:23:39 gabrbedd: two replies and i'm still parsing Jun 17 16:24:13 > 0 is better than silence :) Jun 17 16:25:50 == 1 Jun 17 16:31:44 Stskeeps: and both specific to IVI. :-/ Jun 17 16:34:42 Stskeeps: FWIW, the response I usually get is similar to what the IVI guys are saying... "Um, why are you trying to use the *reference* UX? Vendors are supposed to supply their own UX's." Jun 17 16:56:08 * npm used to have a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruputer until it fell off my wrist one day and was lost Jun 17 17:01:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcg-wbJqL2g Jun 17 17:06:46 * CosmoHill looks at tackat Jun 17 17:09:14 howdy. Jun 17 17:09:32 I think you tripped over a cable on your way in Jun 17 17:10:09 * Jay_BEE gets up and dusts hisself off Jun 17 17:57:52 * lcuk bangs head on chanwall Jun 17 17:58:31 mm? Jun 17 17:59:28 there are no walls in irc, only infinite idling Jun 17 18:24:19 hi guys Jun 17 19:22:13 hello, Jun 17 19:25:13 salut Jun 17 19:39:49 * lcuk throws a sun sketch @ CosmoHill Jun 17 19:39:56 yay Jun 17 20:18:45 http://summify.com/story/Tfn7CvXQRHaNABol/bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-6229?utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=general&utm_source=share Jun 17 20:18:58 I think its worth supporting :) Jun 17 20:20:02 Interesting .. Jun 17 20:47:39 Something else worth supporting ;) http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3586 Jun 17 20:50:48 that's what I want to do for a living, boats and computing. Seriously. Jun 17 20:51:34 Malta is really nice. Jun 17 20:53:53 never been there. I read it gets hot in the summer. Jun 17 20:55:18 < maltafan. 5 times been there :) Jun 17 20:55:32 august will probably be 6th, oct would be 7th Jun 17 20:56:04 I can tolerate living in the sun though :) Jun 17 20:57:41 planned to be now in malta, but didn't worked out ;) Jun 17 20:58:10 I would go if I had the resources Jun 17 20:59:41 * CosmoHill boots CLFS 1.2 :D Jun 17 20:59:50 sofar its been a good year, I'm selfemployed, so, I guess I'm gonna do the trip and have fun. Jun 17 21:00:48 hey if you go for professional reasons, you can write the of the cost off your taxes Jun 17 21:01:13 sure, this trip will pay my company :) Jun 17 21:02:19 If you go out for lunch, and think about work, you can deduct the restaurant bill ;p Jun 17 21:02:49 nah, only if you go with someone who also thinks about work Jun 17 21:05:53 I prefer beeing invited for lunch :P Jun 17 21:06:35 careful, in some jurisdictions a free lunch is considered taxable income Jun 17 21:07:45 CosmoHill, I added something to the weather http://liqbase.net/20110617_003.mp4 Jun 17 21:09:42 darn, "register" is a keyword in C++ Jun 17 21:10:04 * CosmoHill looks Jun 17 21:10:25 berndhs: yes, it puts the value on the processor cache instead of the RAM Jun 17 21:10:26 sure it is. Jun 17 21:10:50 such a natural name for my function :) Jun 17 21:10:59 never used it so. Jun 17 21:11:38 I think its actually a hint, it doesnt really have to do it Jun 17 21:11:51 from the olden days of C Jun 17 21:12:20 ofc the compiler doesn't give a fuck about it today. Jun 17 21:13:09 its like inline, useful and nice, but modern compilers can decide this much better. Jun 17 21:13:12 no probably not the C++ compiler Jun 17 21:13:44 oh yes, they have very good optimisers nowadays. Jun 17 21:14:12 i mean, "no" as in "they don't care if you say register" Jun 17 21:14:13 * CosmoHill bows to lcuk Jun 17 21:14:15 that is awesome Jun 17 21:15:11 I'm waiting for the dragon. LLVM will really boost things up :) Jun 17 21:15:44 all out troubles will go away when wayland arrives Jun 17 21:15:47 or something Jun 17 21:16:13 wayland is cool. Jun 17 21:16:38 how is it better ? other than faster ? Jun 17 21:16:38 but also I ask my self, whats MeeGo gonna do on devices without gpu? Jun 17 21:17:24 with QML SceneGraph Qt will do alot better, if there is a gpu unit afaik. Jun 17 21:18:40 QML is kinda slow in my apps, and somewhat jumpy Jun 17 21:19:16 I don't know if thats the graphics part, or the JS parser, or the bindings evaluation Jun 17 21:19:24 well SceneGraph is gonna improve it. Jun 17 21:19:48 SceneGraph would improve it if it's the graphics part Jun 17 21:19:52 I think Jun 17 21:19:52 also use C++ when you can. Jun 17 21:20:15 i use C++ for all the underlying data, the QML is just for the display part Jun 17 21:20:25 no data model or processing in QML Jun 17 21:20:35 I love QML, I think its a great technique for good and modern UIs. Jun 17 21:20:58 I dont really care about the languages Jun 17 21:20:58 yeah, expose your data in models to qml. Jun 17 21:21:17 but I also noticed, that large models take their time to load in qml. Jun 17 21:21:38 basically I write a C++ application, and load QML to do teh display part Jun 17 21:21:48 what is the difference between qml and html? Jun 17 21:21:54 the C++ says when the data changed, and controls what the data are Jun 17 21:21:58 and why does html load/render relatively quickly? Jun 17 21:22:45 qml knows transitions and states, html is just a dumb xml format describing a document. Jun 17 21:23:21 what the world needs is a good profiler for QML Jun 17 21:23:30 one that doesn't require qt-creator :) Jun 17 21:25:07 currently qml is based on top of GraphicsView, which isn't perfect, espicially if you have controls in your qml code. Jun 17 21:26:02 i have some trouble with it crashing with F15 or gcc 4.6, don't know which is the culprit Jun 17 21:26:07 qml states are great :) Jun 17 21:27:23 great states are Florida and Texas, no state income tax Jun 17 21:27:48 Heh Jun 17 21:28:02 nah, gators and longhorns aren't that great ;) Jun 17 21:28:28 if US, I'd go to California. Jun 17 21:28:48 its nice there, just kinda expensive Jun 17 21:30:28 phl0x81, are you sure there is much difference? Jun 17 21:30:44 berndhs, there is a decent qml performance profiler tool Jun 17 21:30:57 there is one outside of qt-creator ? Jun 17 21:31:11 http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/04/07/qml-perfomance-monitor/ Jun 17 21:31:19 no but that is hardly the issue Jun 17 21:31:20 i dont want to build the whole thing with creator to do the profiling Jun 17 21:31:22 it exists Jun 17 21:31:44 California rocks. been there 2 times. k, its been more then 10 years since :/ Jun 17 21:31:56 building my project with creator is a major nuisance, really Jun 17 21:32:22 I lived in California for 17 years, would go back tomorrow if I had the chance Jun 17 21:32:26 really? I love the creator, best IDE ever so far. Jun 17 21:32:52 Laguna Beach <3 Jun 17 21:33:06 i dont like the creator editor, and all the little windows around the side of it Jun 17 21:33:12 < been 10 month to Oklahoma also <3 Jun 17 21:33:22 San Diego has better climate Jun 17 21:34:02 ah, more the emacs guy? :P Jun 17 21:34:11 i ahve my own editor Jun 17 21:34:20 or gedit, or vi Jun 17 21:34:54 my editor is a scintila wrapper basically, like gedit but with qt Jun 17 21:35:35 I can float or dock windows for different files, that's why i made it Jun 17 21:36:08 convenient for editing the foo.cpp while looking at the foo.h, and such things Jun 17 21:38:40 I had that for some years too. Jun 17 21:38:51 basicly, not editor, generator. Jun 17 21:39:08 wanna recode that tool to something useful so. someday. Jun 17 21:39:27 scintilla is nice, makes it really easy to write an editor Jun 17 21:41:00 I use a moded up gedit :) Jun 17 21:41:19 i think gedit uses scintilla inside Jun 17 21:42:15 the thing about teh qml profiler is that its probably quite separate from qt-creator, just not publically available right now Jun 17 21:43:55 I believe it's all part of the project when you make it Jun 17 21:44:09 could be Jun 17 21:44:11 It's in the qml project template. Jun 17 21:44:27 So you should be able to see how they do it. Jun 17 21:44:39 i'm not making projects with creator though unless someone pays me for it. And I mean *pays* Jun 17 21:44:44 Benchmarking qgv I guess. Jun 17 21:45:03 I like creator, Jun 17 21:45:14 Though I don't use any of their templates :) Jun 17 21:45:15 fine with me, other people can like it :) Jun 17 21:45:35 And I don't use the qml wysiwyg editor Jun 17 21:45:54 In fact, I don't use any of their ui wysiwyg tools Jun 17 21:46:01 I tried to find the qml editor, its not there in the creator versions I looked at Jun 17 21:46:06 I just use it for the editing Jun 17 21:46:37 The graphical editor or the text editor? Jun 17 21:46:43 qml Jun 17 21:46:54 anytthing for qml Jun 17 21:47:34 i probaly look at the wrong version Jun 17 21:47:45 Oh, well, when I edit a qml file it has good syntax highlighting and code completetion, then you click on the ui design button in the toolbar on the left of the window at it takes you to the designer Jun 17 21:47:53 I just don't like designers. Jun 17 21:47:56 dont' want to install things that are not in the fedora repo Jun 17 21:48:30 the scintilla stuff in my editor works ok for qml, it thinks its javascript Jun 17 21:48:42 so I get some syntax highlighting Jun 17 21:48:44 Yeah, but it's not :P Jun 17 21:48:56 And it highlights the wrong keywords Jun 17 21:49:21 that's not really a major issue for me Jun 17 21:49:22 I keep meaning to get around to doing a qml highlighting configuration for gtksourceview. Jun 17 21:51:31 i'm mostly curious about profiling the bindings stuff Jun 17 21:51:38 and some of the javascript parsing Jun 17 21:51:53 I suspect that an inordinate amount of time is spent there, but that's conjecture Jun 17 21:57:24 Well, all the major grunt work should be in C++ Jun 17 21:57:41 The QML should just declare the UI and states. Jun 17 21:58:03 So the real Qt can build it's scene (graph) :) Jun 17 21:58:40 the evaluation of declarative stuff could be expensive though Jun 17 21:59:08 the little UIs I make are not static Jun 17 21:59:18 Only on startup, one it's loaded in all the components into it's tree it doesn't need to pass it anymore. Jun 17 21:59:34 no that's not always the case Jun 17 21:59:36 berndhs, see the qml profiler thing I showed which profiles "samegame" in the video demo Jun 17 21:59:36 Javascript evaluation is the only think that'll decrement performance. Jun 17 21:59:47 then map what it shows for that into your code Jun 17 22:00:19 lcuk: yes i'll look into that, its worth spending some time on it Jun 17 22:00:38 It's like UIs that are stored in xml files and built at run time, they don't have any overhead except initial creation. Jun 17 22:00:44 alterego: the bindings have to be re-evaluated when condistions change Jun 17 22:01:09 different things are shown and hidden, sizes change, colors change Jun 17 22:01:28 so how they do the evaluation can make a difference Jun 17 22:01:34 Sure, but I imagine that is all very efficient signals & slot type things. Jun 17 22:01:47 yes you imagine :) Jun 17 22:02:11 evaluation of declarative or functional stuff is not easy, lots of pitfalls Jun 17 22:02:16 For instance, you need to have NOTIFY on all properties in a component in C++ in order for it to effect anothers' bindings. Jun 17 22:02:53 So it must be using signals for binding recalculation triggers. Jun 17 22:02:54 its not just those parts, its also simple stuff like width and height of the window Jun 17 22:03:11 How is that different! Jun 17 22:03:22 Sorry that was a question mark ;) Jun 17 22:03:31 How is that different? Jun 17 22:03:49 one of my points is, tehre are many evaluation orders for functional/declarative lanaguages Jun 17 22:04:03 and the evaluation order can make huge difference in performance and resources Jun 17 22:04:16 shouldn't be that of a problem, all that JS is based on C++ in qt, afaik. Jun 17 22:04:38 so qml should be too. Jun 17 22:04:45 phl0x81: the javascript gets evaluated everytime it's run Jun 17 22:04:47 the js is from apple Jun 17 22:04:54 The qml describes a scene. Jun 17 22:05:05 qml is js. Jun 17 22:05:16 right, the js is evaluated every time something changes Jun 17 22:05:30 but what parts are evaluated, I don't know Jun 17 22:05:33 phl0x81: not all of it, not really. Jun 17 22:06:15 The javascript files are js, and the embedded js fragments are js, but .qml files are Qml .. Jun 17 22:06:30 Which _isn't_ javascript. Jun 17 22:06:31 isn't qml valid js? Jun 17 22:06:37 No Jun 17 22:06:42 QML is CSS with embedded JS if you want to be disrespectful :) Jun 17 22:06:57 yeah, kind of true berndhs Jun 17 22:06:58 berndhs: it sort of looks more like that yes ;) Jun 17 22:07:24 But it's different to taht. Jun 17 22:07:25 i mean, that's not accurate, but its an approximation Jun 17 22:07:46 its more than CSS at the top level Jun 17 22:08:00 It's like a JS/CSS hybrid syntax, which describes a heirarchial scene graph/model Jun 17 22:08:08 I'm waiting for components and scenegraph. Jun 17 22:08:25 So conceptually it's more like a subset of XML :P Jun 17 22:08:30 Than CSS or JS Jun 17 22:09:03 alterego: So, since it's YAML (but not /YAML/)... we can add support for a shebang line! Jun 17 22:09:08 what I dont like is filename == componentname. Jun 17 22:09:42 phl0x81: Well, you don't have to do it like that, but it's cleaner and it's standard. Jun 17 22:09:46 also there isn't any module/namespace concept in qml. Jun 17 22:10:08 yes the naming stuff seems kinda ad-hoc Jun 17 22:10:41 yeah, Standards. who cares about them... Jun 17 22:10:44 but then javascript is an ad-hoc language, so maybe that's consistent Jun 17 22:11:03 phl0x81: import can be used for namespacing Jun 17 22:11:12 yeah, but you wanna be an ad-hoc programmer? :P Jun 17 22:11:27 gabrbedd: neither are programming languages, it doesn't make sense to "execute" a qml file. Jun 17 22:11:37 oh there is an entire industry based on ad-hoc programming Jun 17 22:12:02 all the ruby and php stuff :) Jun 17 22:12:20 php and :) -> fail. Jun 17 22:12:36 lots of money in it Jun 17 22:13:09 not really. as a freelancer I get more for C++. and less pain. Jun 17 22:13:12 did you know, 30 years ago this sort of re-evaluation thing was donei na different environment: spreadhseets Jun 17 22:13:19 don in a Jun 17 22:13:22 fffffffs Jun 17 22:13:25 done in a Jun 17 22:13:29 excel! Jun 17 22:13:29 :) Jun 17 22:13:33 50 years ago it was done in LISP Jun 17 22:13:34 visicalc Jun 17 22:13:52 the idea of a sparse table of data which has interrelationships and formulas Jun 17 22:13:59 which is the same as a qml model Jun 17 22:14:34 right, lambda calculus is the same thing Jun 17 22:14:41 alterego: Sure it makes sense. That's why everyone is asking to be able to deploy pure-qml apps. Jun 17 22:15:05 marketing, not everyone. Jun 17 22:15:08 gabrbedd: that's cause they are lazy :P Jun 17 22:15:30 A qml file sin't an executable program, like I said, it describes a scene. Jun 17 22:15:41 quite a few folks think that if they can write it in QML, they dont need to know how to write programs Jun 17 22:15:43 alterego: Here's a raspberry for you :-b::::..... Jun 17 22:16:06 apimonkeys should do java... ;) Jun 17 22:16:11 But yeah, I understand it might be useful to have a auto-loader :) Jun 17 22:16:34 I want to load qml from strings, can I do that ? Jun 17 22:16:45 berndhs: in qml? sure Jun 17 22:16:47 a shell script isnt an executable program, like I said, it describes a spell Jun 17 22:16:48 berndhs: I think so. Jun 17 22:16:59