**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 30 02:59:57 2011
Jun 30 03:21:00 <Bruns> damion3
Jun 30 03:21:03 <Bruns> i rooted the phone
Jun 30 03:21:16 <Bruns> now how do i get meego on it?
Jun 30 03:21:36 <Ken-Young> Bruns, What kind of phone?
Jun 30 03:21:42 <Bruns> incredible
Jun 30 03:23:02 <Bruns> ken-young
Jun 30 03:24:19 <Ken-Young> Bruns, Oh, sorry.   I'm afraid I can't help you.
Jun 30 03:24:25 <Bruns> awh :(
Jun 30 03:24:32 <Bruns> ken-young: do you know if it has been done?
Jun 30 03:49:09 <Ken-Young> Bruns, No, I've never heard of that having been done.   I'd be surprised if it had.
Jun 30 06:22:25 <thp> Bruns: on the meego wiki there are some porting efforts to other android devices documented. unfortunately, most were not successful because of missing drivers afaiui
Jun 30 06:23:12 <thp> Bruns: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/MSMQSD
Jun 30 06:31:51 <Myrtti> cheesecake
Jun 30 07:42:13 <mcfrisk> Hello
Jun 30 07:42:28 <mcfrisk> How to rsync from meego.com repos?
Jun 30 07:42:40 <mcfrisk> I'm interested in http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.3.20110607.2/repos/
Jun 30 07:43:03 <mcfrisk> but it's no longer available from rsync://mirrors.kernel.org/mirrors/meego/
Jun 30 07:47:22 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Jun 30 07:48:44 <lbt> morning Jaffa
Jun 30 07:51:47 <Termana> morning Jaffa and lbt
Jun 30 07:54:27 <slaine> Congrats on the n950 Jaffa and lbt
Jun 30 07:55:10 <Jaffa> slaine: Thanks
Jun 30 07:55:51 <slaine> Looking forward to seeing your porting progress :)
Jun 30 07:56:26 <arfoll> anyone else getting "HTTP Error 500: Internal Server Error" all the time on public OBS?
Jun 30 07:57:58 * alterego yawns
Jun 30 07:58:19 <Termana> morning slaine and alterego
Jun 30 07:59:26 <slaine> Morning Termana
Jun 30 07:59:36 <slaine> I think I should put some coffee on
Jun 30 07:59:45 <Jaffa> arfoll: I noticed some problems *inside* the page (rendering X(HT)ML error pages)
Jun 30 07:59:50 * slaine yawns and stretches
Jun 30 07:59:54 <Jaffa> arfoll: X-Fade should be aware (*poke*)
Jun 30 08:00:39 <arfoll> Jaffa, thanks I was wondering wether my dodgy wifi was not the source
Jun 30 08:01:41 <Jaffa> arfoll: That was at 22:00 UTC last night, so it might have fixed itself (and this is something different) or got worse.
Jun 30 08:01:50 <alterego> I could do with some coffee.
Jun 30 08:02:06 * Jaffa was trying to flesh out http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS which was tricky with having to refresh each page
Jun 30 08:03:00 * arfoll is failing every osc co, web interface seems to accept files every so often
Jun 30 08:08:49 <Jaffa> arfoll: OK, it's definitely worse then, I didn't have any problems with ci's yesterday
Jun 30 08:09:39 <lbt> Jaffa: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build/Application_Building
Jun 30 08:14:05 <Jaffa> lbt: Is it best practice to have package.tar.gz or package_version.tar.gz? The former seems easier to manage and there's the built-in version control, but everything seems to follow the latter...
Jun 30 08:14:49 <lbt> Jaffa: I suspect it depends if you're maintaining or developing
Jun 30 08:15:04 <lbt> automation is easier without _version
Jun 30 08:15:07 <Jaffa> lbt: Let's assume developing
Jun 30 08:15:16 <Jaffa> lbt: Indeed.
Jun 30 08:15:17 <lbt> I prefer without _version
Jun 30 08:15:51 <Jaffa> lbt: I didn't want to make mud2 <http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24047&postcount=15> leave it off if that's a fatal faux-pas ;-)
Jun 30 08:16:35 <lbt> interesting...
Jun 30 08:17:28 <lbt> add : Upload ../project-build-mud/fremantle/ to the meego.com OBS
Jun 30 08:19:12 <Jaffa> lbt: Well, X-Fade's doing harmattan first. Once the meego.com OBS supports fremantle, absolutely :-)
Jun 30 08:19:41 <ZrZ> hi i think obs is wreck now
Jun 30 08:20:30 <lbt> so long as it's on the 'todo' list (for the roadmap)
Jun 30 08:20:50 <ZrZ> it worked yesterday
Jun 30 08:22:34 <Jaffa> lbt: Added it
Jun 30 08:22:44 <ZrZ> ok
Jun 30 08:23:41 <Jaffa> lbt: AFAICT, if build.pub.meego.com gets Fremantle support, we would require two different packages (or projects) unless we can make two dscs which the different targets differentiate.
Jun 30 08:26:22 <lbt> Jaffa: we can do that
Jun 30 08:27:46 <Jaffa> lbt: Cool - so a <package>.fremantle.dsc and a <package>.harmattan.dsc?
Jun 30 08:28:07 <Jaffa> lbt: That'd be good cos then mud2 can stick everything in the same place, which can be the osc checkout dir
Jun 30 08:28:18 <lbt> yep
Jun 30 08:28:33 <lbt> (on call so not 100% here)
Jun 30 08:35:37 <Jaffa> lbt: Added note about that to a 'Roadmap' item on there.
Jun 30 08:36:38 <lbt> I think the OBS already has something to to that - not sure of the syntax
Jun 30 08:37:08 <X-Fade> probably a prjconf could filter it.
Jun 30 08:43:54 <lbt> X-Fade: I am pretty sure there's a dsc selection filter based on target name or something
Jun 30 08:44:11 <lbt> X-Fade: also, you had a couple of Apps tasks for me for today/tomorrow
Jun 30 08:44:19 <khertan> Morning
Jun 30 08:44:37 <lbt> hi khertan
Jun 30 08:45:30 <khertan> 'ning lbt
Jun 30 08:46:53 <Jaffa> lbt: X-Fade: BTW, is Spectacle something which would be done on OBS or ahead of uploading to produce the .spec file?
Jun 30 08:47:11 <lbt> ahead
Jun 30 08:47:22 <lbt> but you must upload the yaml if you used one
Jun 30 08:47:37 <lbt> and we re-run specify to verify the yaml matches the spec
Jun 30 08:47:50 <lbt> (for CE, I guess we don't care for Apps)
Jun 30 08:48:02 <lbt> OBS doesn't know about yaml
Jun 30 08:49:10 <Jaffa> OK
Jun 30 08:51:01 <bkalinga> i opened settings in my tablet running inside Xephyr
Jun 30 08:51:10 <bkalinga> now how can i close that
Jun 30 08:51:32 <bkalinga> i want to navigate to Home screen but not finding a way to exit from this settings
Jun 30 08:55:02 <Jaffa> bkalinga: ExoPC? Tap the proximity sensor at the top-left
Jun 30 08:57:12 <lcuk> morning \o
Jun 30 08:57:20 <bkalinga> Jaffa: a tablet image running using Xephyr
Jun 30 08:57:21 <bkalinga> meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.0.90.5.20110621.5.img
Jun 30 08:57:32 <Jaffa> bkalinga: Oh yeah - sorry I saw Xephyr
Jun 30 08:57:36 <Jaffa> bkalinga: Escape key?
Jun 30 08:58:16 <bkalinga> jaffa: that does not work
Jun 30 09:40:31 <lardman> morning
Jun 30 09:53:57 <Jaffa> lardman: morning
Jun 30 09:54:03 <Jaffa> lardman: How's your home Internet going?
Jun 30 09:54:10 <lardman> hi Jaffa
Jun 30 09:54:13 <lardman> nothing at home still
Jun 30 09:54:21 <lardman> 4th of July apparently
Jun 30 09:55:27 <lardman> any news on devkits?
Jun 30 09:55:53 <Stskeeps|holiday> you're on the list i think
Jun 30 09:55:55 <Termana> lardman, first round list released
Jun 30 09:56:03 <hell> lardman: first round is over
Jun 30 09:56:17 <hell> lardman: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia  - search thru list
Jun 30 09:57:40 <lardman> thanks hell
Jun 30 09:57:45 <lardman> yay, I'm on the list :)
Jun 30 09:58:09 <ZrZ> i am not :(
Jun 30 09:59:14 <ZrZ> will there be a 2d round ?
Jun 30 09:59:17 <thiago> nor I
Jun 30 09:59:21 <hell> ZrZ: about 400 people are not in list yet)))
Jun 30 09:59:34 <hell> ZrZ: still in progress
Jun 30 09:59:53 <LunohoD> I'm not on the list too
Jun 30 10:00:00 <vvaltone> "You will receive an email with instructions..." So... what do they have to sacrifice?
Jun 30 10:00:08 <LunohoD> oh, wait. i did not submit my proposal...
Jun 30 10:00:22 <vvaltone> "Inorder to get your phone, you will have to buy a Windows 7 Phone"
Jun 30 10:00:36 <Termana> thiago, hmm... aren't you a Nokia employee?
Jun 30 10:00:45 <thiago> Termana: not anymore
Jun 30 10:01:52 <hell> LunohoD: there is a russian-ukrain drama in forum)  http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24159&postcount=169
Jun 30 10:03:12 <Termana> Why doesn't this surprise me?
Jun 30 10:04:08 <LunohoD> hell: lulz
Jun 30 10:06:13 <Ans5i> yep
Jun 30 10:07:09 <Jaffa> khertan: the definition of "sentence" is usually one line, not a long set of bullet points. Put the bullets on http://wiki.meego.com/User:Khertan or somewhere ;-)
Jun 30 10:11:29 <khertan> Jaffa: oh ... sorry i think it was better for readeability
Jun 30 10:12:13 <khertan> Add here one line of text  ... <- indeed ... the n900 screen is too small :)
Jun 30 10:13:37 <vvaltone> Inline bullet points, ftw
Jun 30 10:15:26 <khertan> Jaffa: refined
Jun 30 10:15:38 <khertan> thx for notifying it me
Jun 30 10:17:14 <Jaffa> khertan: No probs - other people could copy and make the whole page harder to read.
Jun 30 10:20:48 <khertan> Jaffa: indeed ... even if i found it easiest to read ... it s a point of view .. i follow the rule :)
Jun 30 10:21:05 <khertan> s/easiest/easier
Jun 30 10:21:29 <Jaffa> khertan: Not following the rules will get your name removed from The List ;-)
Jun 30 10:22:50 <khertan> hi hi
Jun 30 10:23:02 <khertan> no !!!!! my Willie Wonka's Golden Ticket !!!!
Jun 30 10:23:04 <khertan> :)
Jun 30 10:23:56 <khertan> it s a micro sim, isn't it ? (i mean on the sim slot on n950 ?)
Jun 30 10:24:15 <lardman> yeah I remember reading that
Jun 30 10:24:29 <Termana> khertan, no
Jun 30 10:24:30 <lardman> do the providers happily give out uSims?
Jun 30 10:24:32 <Termana> not on the N950
Jun 30 10:24:39 <lardman> ah that's for the N9 then?
Jun 30 10:24:42 <Termana> yes
Jun 30 10:24:56 <vvaltone> a full sdcard on n950?
Jun 30 10:24:57 <Termana> only miniSIM on the N950 (normal sim)
Jun 30 10:25:06 <vvaltone> oh.. sims
Jun 30 10:25:51 <vvaltone> lardman, perhaps that's the joke, then they say that they didn't see any registered on any mobile network
Jun 30 10:27:47 <Venemo> thiago, you quit? :O
Jun 30 10:40:05 <thiago> Venemo: yes
Jun 30 10:41:39 <Venemo> thiago, I'm a bit surprised, but I think I can understand why
Jun 30 10:48:07 <berndhs> thiago: going anywhere in particular ?
Jun 30 10:49:11 <thiago> Intel
Jun 30 10:50:08 <berndhs> good for Intel
Jun 30 10:50:24 <mardy> thiago: congrats! I hope you'll continue working on Qt?
Jun 30 10:58:37 <thiago> mardy: yes
Jun 30 11:01:54 <Stskeeps|holiday> thiago, good luck in your new adventures at intel :)
Jun 30 11:08:06 <Venemo> thiago, then this is Intel's lucky day :)
Jun 30 11:12:05 <thiago> unfortunately pending my visa
Jun 30 11:12:21 <thiago> last time, it was one week delayed for me, 4 months for a friend
Jun 30 11:12:35 <w00t> thiago: ehh.. that hasn't been solved yet?
Jun 30 11:14:41 <thiago> w00t: no, unfortunately Intel doesn't have the backdoors that Nokia did
Jun 30 11:14:46 <thiago> so I have to wait the regular amount of time
Jun 30 11:15:35 <w00t> you'd better not get deported, i'll be so disappointed if i can't come visit you :-)
Jun 30 11:16:03 <Stskeeps|holiday> thiago: relocating to the US then?
Jun 30 11:16:09 <hell> thiago: you relocate?
Jun 30 11:16:16 <hell> heh.
Jun 30 11:16:18 <thiago> no, Norway visa
Jun 30 11:16:23 <Stskeeps|holiday> ah
Jun 30 11:16:42 <thiago> it should be a simple update of my current visa, but it takes time
Jun 30 11:20:18 <DocScrutinizer> hey Stskeeps|holiday :-D
Jun 30 11:21:20 <Stskeeps|holiday> moo
Jun 30 11:21:22 <hell> thiago: so, you waiting it outside EU?
Jun 30 11:22:43 <DocScrutinizer> khertan: lardman: N950 has standard SIM
Jun 30 11:23:02 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: yep saw that, thanks
Jun 30 11:25:08 <thiago> hell: I'm in Norway
Jun 30 11:26:08 <MiskaX> thiago: great news! ;)
Jun 30 11:32:50 <omcfadde> thiago: visa/residence permit is never simple. I'm already starting to put aside some money for lawyer fees
Jun 30 11:33:53 <khertan> DocScrutinizer: thx for the info
Jun 30 11:33:53 <omcfadde> easiest way is "here is the paperwork, here are my details, and here's a large heap of 100 euro bills. go to work!"
Jun 30 11:35:34 <thiago> omcfadde: that's taken care of
Jun 30 11:35:51 <omcfadde> thiago: ah, nice :)
Jun 30 11:36:03 <berndhs> bureaucratic paperwork needs to be properly aged
Jun 30 11:45:27 <omcfadde> berndhs: heh, maybe I should print my application on recycled newsprint or something ;)
Jun 30 11:52:37 <smoku> omcfadde: is it still worth it?
Jun 30 11:53:21 <omcfadde> smoku: not sure what you mean? still worth staying in Helsinki? absolutely!
Jun 30 11:54:02 <smoku> n.md. - I got an impression that you are talking about USA
Jun 30 11:54:05 <smoku> ;-)
Jun 30 11:54:23 <X-Fade> alterego: my bh-214 works at least.
Jun 30 11:54:30 <omcfadde> ah! yeah, I guess the process sucks everywhere :p
Jun 30 11:54:37 <X-Fade> Hehe -EWINDOW :)
Jun 30 11:54:46 <alterego> :D
Jun 30 11:56:00 <Glaxi> hi
Jun 30 12:05:48 <Venemo> bergie, if you are interested still, please look at http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=24198#post24198 :)
Jun 30 12:09:40 <TheBootroo> hello
Jun 30 12:11:41 <TheBootroo> did someone here already received a devkit email? or more  : the device ?
Jun 30 12:18:02 <bergie> Venemo: replied
Jun 30 12:19:08 <hell> hm. second round will add some more grey hair on my head)
Jun 30 12:19:27 <hell> waiting is paain.
Jun 30 12:21:28 <Venemo> bergie, thank you :)
Jun 30 12:22:34 <Venemo> brb
Jun 30 12:40:58 <MohammadAG> are there any examples for status menu applets?
Jun 30 13:26:32 <motafoca> anyone managed to compile the meego kernel? i downloaded it and have like 50 patches, but some dont apply, probably the order is wrong, how can i check the patching order?
Jun 30 13:27:50 <Termana> motafoca, are you manually applying the patches or using quilt?
Jun 30 13:28:19 <motafoca> manually applying
Jun 30 13:28:52 <motafoca> never trid quilt
Jun 30 13:28:53 <motafoca> let me see
Jun 30 13:28:53 <Termana> motafoca, use quilt or look in one of the files (can't remember it's exact name) and it will show you the patching order
Jun 30 13:30:10 <motafoca> Termana, ok, just a sec  :)
Jun 30 13:30:45 <Termana> motafoca, kernel.spec I think
Jun 30 13:31:50 <motafoca> Termana, i saw that, but how to use it?
Jun 30 13:32:47 <gabrbedd> motofoca: You say you downloaded the meego kernel.... from where?  The .src.rpm?
Jun 30 13:33:07 <motafoca> yeah
Jun 30 13:33:14 <motafoca> but i extracted it using alien
Jun 30 13:33:31 <motafoca> .src.rpm ..
Jun 30 13:33:39 <motafoca> changed it to tgz
Jun 30 13:33:42 <motafoca> then extracted
Jun 30 13:33:59 <Termana> hmm, are you sure that one doesn't already have the patches applied?
Jun 30 13:34:14 <motafoca> yes
Jun 30 13:34:32 <gabrbedd> motafoca: Have you read this page? http://wiki.meego.com/Tips_on_compiling_and_packaging_kernels_in_MeeGo
Jun 30 13:34:33 <motafoca> i applied the patch-2.6.31
Jun 30 13:34:38 <motafoca> it worked
Jun 30 13:34:53 <motafoca> but all the morestown stuf is missing
Jun 30 13:35:28 <gabrbedd> motafoca: BTW, it's not uncommon for the .src.rpm package to have patches that it does not use.  You'll need to consult the .spec file to see which ones are used (and in which order).
Jun 30 13:35:39 <motafoca> gabrbedd, thanks for the link, i think it will solve it
Jun 30 13:35:49 <Termana> otherwise, to use the kernel.spec file in a manual fashion you just go through it and look for all the lines labelled "PatchNUM" with NUM being an incremented number from the first one like it and patch it in that order
Jun 30 13:37:20 <gabrbedd> Also, I think the .src.rpm includes a `series` file that makes using quilt MUCH easier.  I think they also keep it in sync with the .spec.
Jun 30 13:38:39 <hesetys> n900 online help pag sems to be convertd to redirect to n9 add page.. "nice" product suppoet from nokia :(
Jun 30 13:38:58 <hesetys> s/add/ad/
Jun 30 13:38:58 <infobot> hesetys meant: n900 online help pag sems to be convertd to redirect to n9 ad page.. "nice" product suppoet from nokia :(
Jun 30 13:42:07 <motafoca> Termana, yeah, worst case ill grep that spec and do a script :)
Jun 30 13:42:08 <motafoca> thanks
Jun 30 13:47:00 <gabrbedd> motafoca: grep -E "^(Patch|%patch)" kernel.spec
Jun 30 13:47:11 <gabrbedd> The order is determined by the %patch lines
Jun 30 13:47:18 <gabrbedd> The file names by the Patch lines
Jun 30 13:47:28 <gabrbedd> they map PatchNNN ==> %patchNNN
Jun 30 13:49:36 <motafoca> yeah thans
Jun 30 13:49:37 <motafoca> :)
Jun 30 13:49:44 <motafoca> almost finished the script
Jun 30 13:50:06 <motafoca> simple grep with cut did the job
Jun 30 13:50:14 <motafoca> finishing the for
Jun 30 13:50:44 <motafoca> worked
Jun 30 13:50:46 <motafoca> done i guess
Jun 30 13:51:30 <motafoca> patched
Jun 30 13:51:31 <motafoca> ;)
Jun 30 15:16:49 * ZrZ http://rzr.online.fr/q/gl#: neheglqt : NeHe #3D #OpenGl demos PorteD to #qt4 , plz test them on #MobilE #DevicE , FeedBack PatcheS WelcomE 
Jun 30 15:17:12 <thiago> what's that?
Jun 30 15:17:59 <X-Fade> broken shift button, for sure.
Jun 30 15:22:56 <Ans5i> ..but nehe is great.
Jun 30 15:24:57 <w00t> my hand hurts when I try write like that :-)
Jun 30 15:25:03 <ZrZ> i just build a rpm for meego
Jun 30 15:25:13 <Tuju> write? i've pain while reading.
Jun 30 15:25:25 <ZrZ> :)
Jun 30 15:48:13 <lcuk> w00t, even worse trying to do it in handwriting
Jun 30 16:14:05 <andyross> (reading scrollback) you can write ... text?  With your hands?  Nonsense.
Jun 30 16:14:47 <araujo> Hello guys,
Jun 30 16:15:01 <lcuk> andyross, try doing handwriting from your keyboard
Jun 30 16:15:03 <lcuk> araujo, hi
Jun 30 16:15:06 <lcuk> i heard about lmt
Jun 30 16:15:07 <araujo> I notice they have just removed libmeegotouch, together with all meegotouch packages from Trunk now?
Jun 30 16:15:19 <araujo> Do we have an announcement about that?
Jun 30 16:15:22 <araujo> hi lcuk
Jun 30 16:15:25 <lcuk> araujo, what effect does that actually have
Jun 30 16:15:32 <lcuk> i just saw an email about it
Jun 30 16:15:38 <jonnor> lcuk: where is the email?
Jun 30 16:15:46 * andyross noticed that too, and had to move a few packages into a 1.2:oss branch, which is probably where they should have been.
Jun 30 16:15:49 <frals> lcuk: it was the SR from meego-commits i assume lcuk?
Jun 30 16:16:15 <araujo> lcuk, it'd be nice ot have an announcement in advance
Jun 30 16:16:19 <lcuk> http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-commits/2011-June/030779.html
Jun 30 16:16:27 <lcuk> yes frals
Jun 30 16:16:29 <andre__> commits doesn't count. real mailing lists would be welcome.
Jun 30 16:16:41 <frals> andre__: ha, thats not how things are done here ;-)
Jun 30 16:16:41 <lcuk> and araujo agreed, but wasnt there quite some discussion over recent weeks?
Jun 30 16:16:45 <jonnor> lcuk: for Maliit we have had LMT free packages in Trunk:Testing for some weeks now, but noone has integrated it yet
Jun 30 16:16:54 <araujo> well... I received the commit email, of course, but that doesn't count as an announcement :P
Jun 30 16:17:04 <lcuk> jonnor, is that what araujo is following on?
Jun 30 16:17:18 <jonnor> lcuk: what do you mean?
Jun 30 16:17:18 <andre__> frals, yeah, it's meego :)
Jun 30 16:17:28 <araujo> lcuk, discussion over recent weeks about what?
Jun 30 16:17:38 <lcuk> It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."
Jun 30 16:17:57 <araujo> we all know LMT would be soon removed, but I didn't know it was going to happen today like this....
Jun 30 16:18:01 <jonnor> no decision was annoucnced that lmt will be removed today, as I have seen
Jun 30 16:18:04 <lcuk> araujo, chatter about libmeegotouch
Jun 30 16:18:06 <frals> andre__: if you are lucky, some rabid person will send a mail to meego-dev "we decided to drop x, y and z. we are replacing it with a, b and c which needs a lot of work to come close in features" ;)
Jun 30 16:18:38 <lcuk> frals, being rabid at least shows some passion :P
Jun 30 16:18:51 <lcuk> it takes energy to foam at the mouth
Jun 30 16:18:55 <andyross> And related: do any OBS experts know why my personal MeeGo:1.2:oss branch repo hasn't published?  Is there some magic I need to do to make the packages appear on download.meego.com?
Jun 30 16:18:58 <frals> lcuk: ye :)
Jun 30 16:19:07 <andre__> I think I slowly lose confidence that MeeGo will get it right (=open). Might be just today though, a day with enough tension so far...
Jun 30 16:19:16 <araujo> and about the effects, well, right now there are many packages in OBS with unresolvable deps
Jun 30 16:19:30 <lcuk> andre__, I am recently easing tension with football
Jun 30 16:19:47 <araujo> andyross, did you enable the publish flags?
Jun 30 16:20:31 <andyross> Heh, indeed.  Magic. :)
Jun 30 16:20:55 <andre__> lcuk: damn, how productive. I just take lots of drugs and hit the streets with guns etc ;-)
Jun 30 16:22:19 <pierce> andyross:  publish flags always throw me off :-)   "wheres my damn package, it says it built successfully!" every single time
Jun 30 16:22:46 <tomeu> andre__: I think that's what he was referring with "football" :p
Jun 30 16:23:24 <andre__> :-D
Jun 30 16:25:31 * araujo sends an email
Jun 30 17:38:01 <BlueAidan> going to actually use btrfs' features this time...
Jun 30 17:38:19 <BlueAidan> doing snapshots as I make changes to the OS setup
Jun 30 18:33:00 <peterbjornx> i HATE nokia
Jun 30 18:33:19 <peterbjornx> i sent my n900 in for repair and they give me the n8
Jun 30 18:33:25 <peterbjornx> what a sorry excuse for a smartphone
Jun 30 18:33:44 <X-Fade> peterbjornx: And you join this channel, why?
Jun 30 18:33:51 <peterbjornx> any chance on getting a stripped down maemo or meego on it?
Jun 30 18:33:58 <X-Fade> no
Jun 30 18:34:20 <peterbjornx> why not
Jun 30 18:34:44 <X-Fade> different cpu, basically lower power stuff all around.
Jun 30 18:34:49 <peterbjornx> with stripped down i mean , kernel + GNU tools + Xorg + simple WM + deb packages
Jun 30 18:34:58 <peterbjornx> *dpkg
Jun 30 18:35:05 <X-Fade> And locked bootloader :)
Jun 30 18:35:15 <peterbjornx> do they still do that
Jun 30 18:35:30 <peterbjornx> now im srsly considering selling it and buying another N900
Jun 30 18:35:47 <CosmoHill> peterbjornx: phone them up and tell them you want a n900
Jun 30 18:36:13 <peterbjornx> i asked for one at the shop, they said, were sorry those aint made anymore, heres your N8
Jun 30 18:36:25 <peterbjornx> be thankful for it cause you got a pricy new phone
Jun 30 18:36:48 <peterbjornx> i then asked for my n900 back they said nokia destroyed it
Jun 30 18:36:52 <Mirv> that's unfortunately true, N900 isn't made any more. but N8 is indeed worth something... although not quite enough for a N9 pre-order where you could actually have MeeGo :)
Jun 30 18:37:11 <peterbjornx> how much will n9 cost when its in stores
Jun 30 18:37:17 <peterbjornx> any guesses?
Jun 30 18:37:30 <Mirv> depends if in $ or €, but I guess it's for example ca. 550€ at start
Jun 30 18:37:43 <peterbjornx> well
Jun 30 18:37:48 <thiago> probably as expensive as the N8
Jun 30 18:37:50 <thiago> possibly more
Jun 30 18:37:56 <peterbjornx> and day-value of a N8 with 2 months of warranty
Jun 30 18:37:58 <Mirv> N8 is a lot less expensive
Jun 30 18:38:15 <peterbjornx> they sell it for E500 there
Jun 30 18:38:29 <Mirv> anyway http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 <- CE is supposed to extend to N9 next
Jun 30 18:38:47 <Mirv> of course it needs people to do it, but starting obviously with packaging the harmattan kernel to MeeGo community OBS
Jun 30 18:39:28 <peterbjornx> but, how much do you think a N8 will sell for on ebay
Jun 30 18:39:45 <peterbjornx> its only got 2 months warranty and it didnt come with manuals and a box
Jun 30 18:40:14 <pierce> peterbjornx: I'm seeing some for 412usd
Jun 30 18:41:02 <pierce> some up to around 450
Jun 30 18:41:22 <peterbjornx> what'd be a better plan, go for a N9 and invest some 250 euros, buy a old N900 or keep the N8
Jun 30 18:41:33 <peterbjornx> would people care about the warranty?
Jun 30 18:41:40 <pierce> N9 is going to change everything
Jun 30 18:41:48 <pierce> better hold out for that
Jun 30 18:42:03 <peterbjornx> how "open" will it be
Jun 30 18:42:08 <Mirv> I'd say N9, not simply because it's the fanciest device, but because N900:s start to be rare and their USB connector is a bit shaky. keeping N8 you don't gain much (...if you're interested in MeeGo)
Jun 30 18:42:09 <peterbjornx> just like n900?
Jun 30 18:42:29 <peterbjornx> it was the usb connector why i sent it in for repairs
Jun 30 18:42:46 <Mirv> peterbjornx: well the shipping firmware is a combination of proprietary and open stuff, but the MeeGo Community Edition for it will be ~99% open (ie. only drivers et cetera)
Jun 30 18:43:14 <peterbjornx> i was talking more about software restrictions
Jun 30 18:43:47 <Mirv> well you can root it and flash it AFAIK, ie. totally change the software - zero restrictions per se
Jun 30 18:44:16 <Mirv> and with the default software you can play around freely also in the system which is Harmattan based (deb packaging)
Jun 30 18:44:43 <Mirv> for apps, you can target both the default people will be using and real MeeGo at the same time, since both have the same Qt for apps
Jun 30 18:45:08 <peterbjornx> and, do you think i have any chance of selling it for a reasonable price with only 2 months of warranty and no box and manuals?
Jun 30 18:45:26 <Mirv> I guess 2 months of warranty gives a lot more comfort to the buyer than 0 months
Jun 30 18:45:33 <Mirv> so yes
Jun 30 18:45:44 <peterbjornx> well i guess most on ebay have 1.5 years?
Jun 30 18:46:34 <peterbjornx> but the fact that this one is completely new will compensate i think
Jun 30 18:47:02 <Mirv> well yes should help a lot as well
Jun 30 18:47:05 <peterbjornx> i hate that i decided to send my n900 in
Jun 30 18:47:41 <Myrtti> ohai Mirv.
Jun 30 18:47:48 <peterbjornx> was working on a manual "distro" in a flash partition that was based of maemo but with different shells and desktop env
Jun 30 18:48:35 <pierce> peterbjornx:  so they wouldn't give it back to you?
Jun 30 18:49:12 <peterbjornx> nokia "destroyed" it
Jun 30 18:49:14 <peterbjornx> :@
Jun 30 18:49:54 <peterbjornx> i lost my temper when the shop guy said that
Jun 30 18:50:34 <peterbjornx> is there any official indications on the N9 price yet?
Jun 30 18:51:40 <peterbjornx> i dont want to end up selling my phone and not having enough money to buy it , as i probably wont have more than 200 euros to add to what i get for my N8
Jun 30 18:52:00 <thiago> peterbjornx: check your local operators. They may have the price already.
Jun 30 18:52:11 <thiago> peterbjornx: but expect it to be the N8 + some more money.
Jun 30 18:53:16 <Mirv> Myrtti: ohai!
Jun 30 18:54:23 <w00t> DDP \o/
Jun 30 18:55:00 <lcuk> w00t, \o/
Jun 30 18:56:10 <CosmoHill> damn hicups, I keep getting them
Jun 30 18:56:39 <Mirv> is this btw a known problem in the community OBS? "service daemon error: connect to store-vlan60.pub.in.meego.com:5152: Connection refused"
Jun 30 18:57:09 <X-Fade> Mirv: Hmm something needs kicking then.
Jun 30 18:57:23 <peterbjornx> €465 voor de 16GB variant en  €530 voor de 64GB variant.
Jun 30 18:57:24 <peterbjornx> :O
Jun 30 18:57:28 <peterbjornx> cheap
Jun 30 18:57:47 <Mirv> uu, cheaper than I thought. probably pricier here :P
Jun 30 18:58:05 <Myrtti> nothing stops from buying abroad
Jun 30 18:58:07 <peterbjornx> 660 dollars for the 16gig
Jun 30 18:58:17 <peterbjornx> but thats 465 euros atm
Jun 30 18:58:30 <Myrtti> especially when the hardware solutions are the same and not limited to, for example, a certain hw keyboard layout
Jun 30 18:58:43 <X-Fade> peterbjornx: $ == Euro in these cases.
Jun 30 18:59:02 <peterbjornx> why?
Jun 30 18:59:12 <timoph> that's how it usually is
Jun 30 18:59:17 <X-Fade> That is always the case. With about any product.
Jun 30 18:59:17 <Myrtti> of course, it doesn't stop Nokia from being an arsehole and limiting sw keyboard language versions to certain areas.
Jun 30 18:59:20 <timoph> at least in .fi
Jun 30 18:59:31 <Myrtti> or Swype.
Jun 30 18:59:36 <timoph> and good evening :)
Jun 30 18:59:40 <peterbjornx> well, im quoting 2 dutch e-magazines
Jun 30 18:59:46 <GeneralAntilles> Myrtti, add a plugin?
Jun 30 19:00:05 <Myrtti> a plugin?
Jun 30 19:00:08 <peterbjornx> or, modify the software to allow for diff languages
Jun 30 19:00:19 <Myrtti> "modify swype" lol
Jun 30 19:00:20 <peterbjornx> take some files from global images or UK images
Jun 30 19:00:26 <Myrtti> let's see that happening
Jun 30 19:00:38 <Myrtti> in a GAZILLION years
Jun 30 19:00:38 <peterbjornx> probably all in config/data stores
Jun 30 19:01:58 <Myrtti> sorry, I need to go wash my hair, sinuses and mind free from the hospice smell and despair
Jun 30 19:01:59 <GeneralAntilles> Myrtti, I was thinking Maliit
Jun 30 19:02:09 <GeneralAntilles> Myrtti, be well. :(
Jun 30 19:02:10 <Myrtti> GeneralAntilles: I don't get Maliit
Jun 30 19:02:40 <Myrtti> ie. understand
Jun 30 19:02:59 <Myrtti> I see the video on which the layout is being changed
Jun 30 19:03:36 <Myrtti> then I wonder how I can do that on my Exo, and stare at google search box for a while, before giving up
Jun 30 19:03:40 <GeneralAntilles> mikhas can probably illuminate if you can dig him up.
Jun 30 19:05:04 <Myrtti> aaanyway before I infect you all with my scepticism and tiredness, shower
Jun 30 19:12:06 <oilinki> I don't know if you agree, but here is my 2c  http://www.sfonge.com/forum/topic/how-save-meego
Jun 30 19:13:40 <timoph> oilinki: what do you mean by "with nokia MeeGo will die"?
Jun 30 19:13:56 <timoph> MeeGo != Nokia
Jun 30 19:14:50 <oilinki> timoph: nokia != meego can be true, but to meego really live it needs the end users
Jun 30 19:15:03 <niala> blablabla
Jun 30 19:15:22 <niala> m: meego need me :)
Jun 30 19:15:24 <oilinki> and that needs an company with large customer base
Jun 30 19:15:40 <timoph> intel isn't large enough?
Jun 30 19:15:47 <timoph> :)
Jun 30 19:15:47 <oilinki> is it?
Jun 30 19:16:03 <thiago> and there are other companies too
Jun 30 19:16:07 * noobmonk3y prods lcuk 
Jun 30 19:16:07 <dm8tbr> intel is not in the devices business
Jun 30 19:16:08 <timoph> yep
Jun 30 19:16:15 <oilinki> intel is an large company which makes products for other companies.
Jun 30 19:16:34 <thiago> intel likes the device business very much as they're trying to sell to the device makres
Jun 30 19:17:01 <oilinki> average user does not care which processor is in the device (actually does not have any idea of it)
Jun 30 19:17:09 <thiago> right
Jun 30 19:17:15 <thiago> that doesn't invalidate the argument though
Jun 30 19:17:23 * gabrbedd steps in to #meego to find people beating dead horses.  Then leaves.
Jun 30 19:17:37 <timoph> :D
Jun 30 19:17:42 <oilinki> anyway. I just tried to find some solutions, how to get forward.
Jun 30 19:17:55 <pierce> oilinki: if you think that intel is just a processor factory you have been misinformed :-)
Jun 30 19:18:05 <Purduecer> hey guys, sorry to bother you, but perhaps somebody can find a quick answer to my question
Jun 30 19:18:14 <bdub> This post would be more correct if, instead of saying "MeeGo", it said "The people working on MeeGo at Nokia."
Jun 30 19:18:14 <timoph> Purduecer: fire away
Jun 30 19:18:14 <andre__> Purduecer, don't ask to ask, just ask :)
Jun 30 19:18:24 <Purduecer> I just grabbed Meego 1.2 for netbooks and installed it on a USB drive
Jun 30 19:18:30 <gabrbedd> How to save MeeGo??  CREATE.
Jun 30 19:18:36 <Purduecer> trying to do some work in the meego terminal
Jun 30 19:18:44 <Purduecer> but... bash claims it can't find man...
Jun 30 19:18:55 <noobmonk3y> bash only likes women.....
Jun 30 19:19:00 <Purduecer> and, I'm unsure what Meego uses for package installation
Jun 30 19:19:01 <timoph> :D
Jun 30 19:19:03 <noobmonk3y> ;)
Jun 30 19:19:04 <Purduecer> since it's apparently not apt-get
Jun 30 19:19:05 <thiago> Purduecer: zypper
Jun 30 19:19:13 <timoph> Purduecer: zypper
Jun 30 19:19:24 * timoph is slow
Jun 30 19:19:47 <Purduecer> cool, thanks
Jun 30 19:19:55 <Purduecer> and, no man in the Meego distro?
Jun 30 19:20:00 <oilinki> so.. you don't agree what I wrote? then how to get forward in better way?
Jun 30 19:20:00 <Purduecer> just --help or something?
Jun 30 19:20:11 <thiago> oilinki: MeeGo, the project, doesn't need "saving". It could very well use more development, more devices running it, more applications.
Jun 30 19:20:21 <thiago> oilinki: but it's not in danger of dying, hence no need for saving.
Jun 30 19:20:35 <gabrbedd> Purduecer: MeeGo has `man` -- but it's not installed by default.  I think it's just `sudo zypper install man` and you're good to go.
Jun 30 19:20:47 <Purduecer> great, thanks everyone!
Jun 30 19:20:51 <Purduecer> *signs off*
Jun 30 19:20:54 <pierce> gabrbedd: Purduecer you also need manpages
Jun 30 19:21:14 <thiago> oilinki: so I don't agree with what you wrote at all.
Jun 30 19:21:29 <oilinki> thiago: how come it's not in danger of dying? I mean in scale of (mobile) symbian, android etc
Jun 30 19:21:36 <noobmonk3y> hmmm odd question... do you have to be registered on this nokia launchpad thing to be eligable for the n950?
Jun 30 19:21:49 <gabrbedd> pierce: IIRC, there's several man pages already there... just no way to view thim.  (That is for MeeGo <= 1.2)
Jun 30 19:21:55 <pierce> oilinki: your assumption is that meego is another flavor of the month linux fork, which is not true
Jun 30 19:22:01 <thiago> oilinki: MeeGo tablets is growing fine. MeeGo IVI and STBs are doing very well. In fact, we own the IVI industry.
Jun 30 19:22:08 <thiago> oilinki: so it's not in danger of dying.
Jun 30 19:22:31 <thiago> oilinki: true, we're not seeing much in the mobile (handset) segment, but what we need there is someone to commit to shipping a MeeGo device.
Jun 30 19:22:32 <oilinki> pierce: please explain
Jun 30 19:22:34 <pierce> oilinki: meego is just linux, everything in meego gets upstreamed to every other distro
Jun 30 19:22:40 <thiago> oilinki: meanwhile, we keep it alive in the Community Edition.
Jun 30 19:22:49 <pierce> oilinki:  it's owned by the linux foundation
Jun 30 19:23:29 <lbt> thiago: congrats : I hope the change makes no real difference :)
Jun 30 19:23:41 <oilinki> what I think is that in the future (actually already) there is huge need for mobile and laptop integration. like google is already doing.
Jun 30 19:24:14 <oilinki> if I see an picture on my laptop, I wish to see it on my mobile as well.. without thinking when changing the device.
Jun 30 19:24:35 <oilinki> these are just simple things.
Jun 30 19:25:14 <oilinki> and if there is no meego on mobile, the laptop (or PC if you wish), can not work out.
Jun 30 19:25:22 <bdub> oilinki: You're not making the distinction between MeeGo as a project (which has a lot of different contributors from a lot of different companies who can use it in a lot of different ways), and Nokia's handset as a product.
Jun 30 19:25:25 <pierce> oilinki: all of these projects are related, that's how open source works
Jun 30 19:26:11 <thiago> oilinki: agreed. Lots of people are working hard on the "multi-screen" demo
Jun 30 19:26:19 <oilinki> bdub: no I'm not. also the end users do not care. they just want things to go forward. Today the message is - there is no MeeGo. And that message is pretty bad.
Jun 30 19:27:13 <oilinki> today feels like everythin is hanging in the cloud. It could go anywhere.. but the real direction is missing.
Jun 30 19:27:31 <dm8tbr> bdub: btw thanks for coming back quickly to my query on bug 13516
Jun 30 19:27:34 <MeeGoBot> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13516 nor, Undecided, ---, brian.warner, RESO FIXED, Proposal: Allow MeeGo trademark usage in form of "<X>, a MeeGo R&D project"
Jun 30 19:28:10 <oilinki> therefore what Nokia's way to hang.. and way, is the worst thing. Some new directions would be needed.
Jun 30 19:28:52 * timoph thinks this conversation is going nowhere
Jun 30 19:29:25 <pierce> timoph: it's good exercise
Jun 30 19:29:42 <pierce> "this tredmill is going nowhere"  <-- same thing!
Jun 30 19:30:00 * dm8tbr prefers the nature, more variety
Jun 30 19:30:16 <oilinki> timoph: could be so.. but then again there should be an direction and future for the mobile part as well.
Jun 30 19:30:17 <pierce> dm8tbr: but that's where the bears live
Jun 30 19:30:37 <thiago> oilinki: also, don't forget that the MeeGo team inside Nokia will continue to exist, researching what more can be done and maybe plotting a comeback.
Jun 30 19:30:44 <thiago> oilinki: it will be just much smaller.
Jun 30 19:30:45 <dm8tbr> pierce: yes, they make you run faster, that's for bonus ;)
Jun 30 19:31:29 <oilinki> thiago: What I'm afraid that Nokia's Meego Team is really, really small compared to the ex-symbian and current WP7 team.
Jun 30 19:31:36 <bdub> oilinki: My point is that the article is very incorrect in the way it treats MeeGo.  MeeGo is a workgroup of the Linux Foundation, not an OS by Nokia.
Jun 30 19:31:46 <thiago> oilinki: it will be
Jun 30 19:31:58 <thiago> oilinki: no need to keep 7000 people (the size of the Symbian team)
Jun 30 19:32:11 <oilinki> bdub: in that way yes. but what really matters at the moment, is the support from nokia.
Jun 30 19:32:14 <timoph> yeah. they have been pretty open with the stategy change :)
Jun 30 19:32:37 <timoph> so no need to guess
Jun 30 19:32:49 <oilinki> and if nokia is let to slowly kill it's meego team.. then there will not be real meego anymore
Jun 30 19:33:03 <thiago> oilinki: you're again forgetting all the other companies and individuals
Jun 30 19:33:07 <timoph> oilinki: you're still confusing meego and nokia
Jun 30 19:33:09 <thiago> MeeGo does not depend on Nokia. Never has.
Jun 30 19:33:09 <gabrbedd> oilinki: that's bullshit.
Jun 30 19:33:45 <thiago> if Nokia lets its team die off, we'll feel its loss, but MeeGo will survive
Jun 30 19:34:06 * timoph bails out from this conversation as it starts to feel like trolling
Jun 30 19:34:12 <oilinki> I still think that without an major mobile company backup, there is no real concept and therefore a lot less growth with meego
Jun 30 19:34:30 <gabrbedd> oilinki: Right now, there's a boat load of code being dumped into meego from Intel's OSTC
Jun 30 19:34:39 <oilinki> that's put in pc way. but really. how to go forward?
Jun 30 19:35:07 * gabrbedd goes swimming with timoph
Jun 30 19:35:07 <pierce> oilinki:   https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/MeeGo#Companies_supporting_project
Jun 30 19:35:29 <thiago> oilinki: so without a mobile company, we can't have MeeGo IVI? Why?
Jun 30 19:35:54 <thiago> oilinki: explain to me why Nokia is needed to make STBs successful.
Jun 30 19:36:20 <TSCHAKeee> oilinki: MeeGo spreads across more verticals than just Handset, bro.
Jun 30 19:36:32 <Jaffa> thiago: IVI and STBs result in a very different community and offering, though.
Jun 30 19:37:05 <Jaffa> thiago: No-one has ever made IVI and STBs which are accepting - or successful - for third party developers; let alone "hobbyist" developers.
Jun 30 19:37:38 <thiago> Jaffa: that is probably true
Jun 30 19:38:33 <TSCHAKeee> meego could serve as an example
Jun 30 19:38:41 <oilinki> someone needs to explain IVI and STB for me.
Jun 30 19:39:01 <thiago> oilinki: no. You need to research them on your own before writing your posts.
Jun 30 19:39:01 <dm8tbr> oilinki: you need a trip to the meego wiki to look them up maybe
Jun 30 19:39:09 <dm8tbr> :>
Jun 30 19:39:12 <TSCHAKeee> oilinki: no, we don't. go read. IVI = In-Vehicle-Entertainment... STB = Set Top Box.
Jun 30 19:39:17 <pierce> *meego high five*
Jun 30 19:39:19 <thiago> In-Vehicle Infotainment, Set-Top Boxes
Jun 30 19:39:31 <TSCHAKeee> oilinki: we do not appreciate people who thinks things are owed to them "just because"
Jun 30 19:41:02 <oilinki> TSCHAKeee: thanks for the explanation
Jun 30 19:41:20 <oilinki> and thiago as well
Jun 30 19:42:32 <oilinki> I wish not so step on your feets.
Jun 30 19:43:24 <oilinki> and I do know that I do not hold the knowledge I should for coding.
Jun 30 19:43:34 <thiago> you're welcome to help
Jun 30 19:43:41 <thiago> but you need to do your own research first
Jun 30 19:44:32 <oilinki> But at the same time I wish not to see Nokia (or other mobile companies) to let Meego go to the 'nice but useless bin'
Jun 30 19:46:16 <oilinki> So, how to do with Nokia?
Jun 30 19:46:43 <thiago> I agree
Jun 30 19:46:47 <oilinki> it has been the major company behind meego. even if it let it down.
Jun 30 19:47:05 <thiago> Nokia will continue to have a division which is the rightful heir of MeeGo
Jun 30 19:47:12 * TSCHAKeee looks at Intel.
Jun 30 19:47:21 <thiago> it will be much smaller than it is today, but it will continue researching and experimenting with technologies
Jun 30 19:48:27 <thiago> Nokia wants to avoid being caught with its pants down again (like the iPhone was), so this unit may produce something interesting. We just don't know.
Jun 30 19:48:29 <TSCHAKeee> it is becoming as i suspected, an R&D tank.
Jun 30 19:48:38 <thiago> then there's all the talk of "internet for the next billion"
Jun 30 19:49:50 <oilinki> internet for the next billion is likely to be with s40 still
Jun 30 19:49:53 <TSCHAKeee> if my spidey sense is correct, i suspect it may go like this, Meego division comes up with an idea, the Windows Phone division copies it and put it in consumer devices. but that's just speculation.
Jun 30 19:50:00 <pierce> I want to see a MeeGo visor vertical :-D  team up with vuzix or something
Jun 30 19:50:26 <pierce> http://www.vuzix.com/ar/
Jun 30 19:50:50 <thiago> oilinki: Nokia has not revealed what that would be, so that's just speculation right now.
Jun 30 19:50:59 <oilinki> here in thailand, the cheapest phones (checked today at the supermarket) are about 12 euros.
Jun 30 19:51:15 <thiago> oilinki: with or without a subscription plan?
Jun 30 19:51:30 <oilinki> if nokia has to pay 5-7 euros to microsoft.. they can not beat that price
Jun 30 19:51:53 <thiago> microsoft is only the smartphone (high-end) segment
Jun 30 19:51:53 <oilinki> thiago: yes. from the shelve. some nokia model, did not check it better.
Jun 30 19:53:45 <oilinki> previously there has been a long time an segment for 20-30 euros phones. with 100 euros you get an chinese copy of some phones with touch screen, tv, radio, wlan etc. etc. funny toys.
Jun 30 19:56:09 <lcuk> thiago, i think microsoft do something other than smartphones
Jun 30 19:56:16 <lcuk> but I cannot quite put my finger on it
Jun 30 19:56:25 <timoph> lcuk: o/
Jun 30 19:56:32 <lcuk> oh hi timoph \o
Jun 30 19:56:39 <lcuk> congrats! :D
Jun 30 19:56:54 <thiago> i
Jun 30 19:56:54 <timoph> thanks. you too :)
Jun 30 19:56:55 <thiago> hi
Jun 30 19:57:40 <MiskaX> kind of funny, when i joined nokia i was working on STBs
Jun 30 19:57:46 <TSCHAKeee> lcuk: congrats! :)
Jun 30 19:57:59 <lcuk> I have just been talking to mja_fin (meego guy from Manchester) who has a great qt multitouch game that he has tested on harmattan sdk but he hasn't been on the device program yet
Jun 30 19:58:09 <lcuk> strange because of how active around meego forums he is!
Jun 30 19:59:05 <timoph> lcuk: are the sources somewhere in public?
Jun 30 19:59:12 * timoph wants to try
Jun 30 19:59:44 <lcuk> timoph, I think so, he spoke about OSS and gitorious last time we got together
Jun 30 20:01:25 <timoph> lcuk: do you remember the project's name?
Jun 30 20:01:34 <lcuk> i just asked him
Jun 30 20:01:38 <timoph> :)
Jun 30 20:01:38 <lcuk> will let you know
Jun 30 20:01:42 <timoph> thanks
Jun 30 20:02:19 <lcuk> timoph, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=24311#post24311
Jun 30 20:02:48 <timoph> ah. that one
Jun 30 20:03:02 <timoph> I actually already tried it :)
Jun 30 20:03:42 <lcuk> heh I didn't have a multitouch device to try it on
Jun 30 20:03:44 <timoph> the lack of multitouch device made it a bit hard to play.. :)
Jun 30 20:03:52 <lcuk> yeah
Jun 30 20:04:00 <lcuk> hence the n950 testing would be a good thing (TM)
Jun 30 20:04:05 <timoph> :)
Jun 30 20:04:23 <CosmoHill> Nokia N8 is £400 or £300 for a refurbished one
Jun 30 20:05:32 <timoph> we need to make a flute out of it. sandst1 made a component already that gives you the amplitude when you blow into the microphone :)
Jun 30 20:06:14 <lcuk> good stuff
Jun 30 20:06:21 <lcuk> CosmoHill, I have an N8 now actually
Jun 30 20:06:39 <CosmoHill> T9 phones seem to have vanished from the market :(
Jun 30 20:06:46 <gabrbedd> timoph: You mean like Smule's Okarina? (iPhone app)
Jun 30 20:07:25 <lcuk> first thing I want to try and do is add an extra tab to the swipe :)
Jun 30 20:10:04 <javispedro> lcuk: I think it's closed source .. :(
Jun 30 20:10:12 <timoph> gabrbedd: yep
Jun 30 20:11:31 <gabrbedd> timoph: how many fingers does the N9/N950 display support?
Jun 30 20:11:40 <lcuk> javispedro, really
Jun 30 20:11:41 <lcuk> http://projects.developer.nokia.com/MTCatchShake/browser
Jun 30 20:11:45 <lcuk> the source is there
Jun 30 20:12:13 <javispedro> oh, good.
Jun 30 20:12:20 <timoph> gabrbedd: at least 10. dunno if there's any limit really. We tried but run out of screen space
Jun 30 20:12:34 <gabrbedd> timoph: OMG!  Sweet!
Jun 30 20:13:23 <gabrbedd> timoph: With 3 fingers you can do a diatonic scale.  With 4 or more you can do a chromatic scale.
Jun 30 20:13:40 <timoph> :)
Jun 30 20:14:18 <lcuk> timoph, :P I did not think the SDK supported multitouch
Jun 30 20:14:37 <timoph> lcuk: I had a little play time with it :)
Jun 30 20:14:44 <lcuk> \o/
Jun 30 20:15:27 <lcuk>  bbiab
Jun 30 20:16:21 <arnbak> is it possible to speed up the qemu emulated harmattan device, with qtsdk ?
Jun 30 20:16:23 <javispedro> qemu seemingly supports multitouch
Jun 30 20:17:24 <arnbak> hardware acceleration is enabled
Jun 30 20:18:10 <thiago> gabrbedd: the N950 supports 10 fingers.
Jun 30 20:18:31 <thiago> gabrbedd: I tried the 11th touch point with my nose but didn't succeed.
Jun 30 20:19:10 <berndhs> tablets should suport 20 fingers for 2-player games :)
Jun 30 20:19:12 <thiago> I just hope no one took a picture of my trying that
Jun 30 20:19:15 <smoku> thiago, which app do you use to test it?
Jun 30 20:19:29 <thiago> berndhs: if two people have all their fingers on the tablet, who's holding it?
Jun 30 20:19:34 <thiago> smoku: evtest
Jun 30 20:19:41 <smoku> thiago, table?
Jun 30 20:19:43 <berndhs> the table holds the tablet
Jun 30 20:19:57 <gabrbedd> thiago: :-)
Jun 30 20:19:58 <smoku> thiago, thanks. how does evtest report these?
Jun 30 20:20:03 <BlueAidan> so does anyone have tips about actually using the crystalhd gstreamer plugin from the community repo?
Jun 30 20:20:05 <w00t> thiago: rofl
Jun 30 20:20:08 <thiago> smoku: it reports the touch ID
Jun 30 20:20:21 <thiago> smoku: from 0 to 9. So 10 touchpoints.
Jun 30 20:20:36 <smoku> oh. cool.  need to try it then :)
Jun 30 20:20:49 <gabrbedd> smoku: you can also test it with `hexdump -C /dev/input/inputN`
Jun 30 20:20:55 <thiago> /dev/input/ts
Jun 30 20:21:04 <thiago> but evtest decodes the stream for you
Jun 30 20:21:18 <gabrbedd> smoku: When you go one-too-many it stops sending data.
Jun 30 20:21:24 <smoku> gabrbedd, i would like something human friendly rather :D
Jun 30 20:21:33 <gabrbedd> thiago: true... but sometimes it's not installed. :-)
Jun 30 20:22:21 <smoku> thiago, I guess touchscreen designers didn't think about the nose :(
Jun 30 20:27:33 <peterbjornx> n950, isnt that simply N9 or have i missed something
Jun 30 20:28:37 * fiferboy steals the idea to make a fife-emulator
Jun 30 20:29:42 <thiago> peterbjornx: two different devices
Jun 30 20:29:46 <thiago> similar, but not exactly the same
Jun 30 20:30:18 <peterbjornx> will n950 be released too or is it released already
Jun 30 20:30:29 <thiago> it's released already
Jun 30 20:30:34 <peterbjornx> ok
Jun 30 20:31:07 <peterbjornx> to customers too?
Jun 30 20:31:10 <peterbjornx> or just to devs
Jun 30 20:31:29 <thiago> just to devs
Jun 30 20:32:05 <peterbjornx> any info on rtm date and pricing
Jun 30 20:32:20 <thiago> price is 0
Jun 30 20:32:24 <thiago> you cannot buy it
Jun 30 20:32:42 <peterbjornx> it wont be released to customers :O
Jun 30 20:32:43 <thiago> the n950 is only available as a devkit and you have to be given one by Nokia
Jun 30 20:33:01 <peterbjornx> in the future too?
Jun 30 20:33:05 <thiago> forever
Jun 30 20:35:13 * timoph goes to bed
Jun 30 20:40:00 <ali1234> i am fairly certain that giving out the n950 as dev kit for the n9 is a bad idea and here is why
Jun 30 20:40:16 <ali1234> all those maemo guys who get one are going to port the same old stuff from maemo 5
Jun 30 20:40:26 <ali1234> and it's all going to suck on the n9 without a keyboard :/
Jun 30 20:41:51 <smoku> sucky apps won't be accepted ;-)
Jun 30 20:43:24 <ali1234> speaking of which, what is going to happen with "extras" on harmattan?
Jun 30 20:43:31 <ali1234> does it even have a name?
Jun 30 20:43:37 <berndhs> the n950 is there to keep the old maemo crowd quiet for the next 6-12 months :)
Jun 30 20:43:54 <ali1234> are they even going to have a community repo in it?
Jun 30 20:44:03 <ali1234> or they just going to have nokia store?
Jun 30 20:44:12 <ali1234> or is this stuff not known yet?
Jun 30 20:44:17 <smoku> intel appup
Jun 30 20:44:22 <ali1234> nothing else?
Jun 30 20:44:38 <smoku> ovi store too I guess
Jun 30 20:44:44 <smoku> if they manage to get it working
Jun 30 20:45:17 <ali1234> hmm
Jun 30 20:45:37 <smoku> last time I tried uploading .deb to ovi, it barked on me, that .deb is no good, and I need to upload .deb
Jun 30 20:45:47 <ali1234> great
Jun 30 20:45:59 <ali1234> i've had similar experiences with just about every nokia service ever
Jun 30 20:46:10 <berndhs> well that should teach you :)
Jun 30 20:46:33 <ali1234> it taught me not to bother with nokia "ecosystem"
Jun 30 20:46:48 <smoku> and today they messaged me, that they are discontinuing ovi chat, and I need to download new app from website, that in turn informed me that my n900 is not supported
Jun 30 20:46:56 <RST38h> ali: Dunno about other guys but my stuff is not going to suck =)
Jun 30 20:47:23 <RST38h> ali: Got touch joystick, accelerator joystick, going to add multitouch and compass based controls=)
Jun 30 20:47:51 <RST38h> smoku: Hehe
Jun 30 20:47:58 <smoku> :)  my stuff is also touch based.  i still find using the keyboard awkward for anything more than sms and email
Jun 30 20:48:03 <ali1234> i never understood why i need a ovi chat account to talk to people on msn, jabber etc on a symbian phone
Jun 30 20:48:15 <RST38h> Yea, kbd is kinda too slow
Jun 30 20:49:05 <Damion3> I think people think there is money to be made in social and having your own ecosystem might help
Jun 30 20:49:34 <smoku> ali1234, i did setup ovi chat just out of couriosity. never exchanged one message over it.  but messaging me to upgrade and then informing that sorry, but we do not support you is kind of ironic.
Jun 30 20:49:47 <Damion3> google+1, ovi, etc
Jun 30 20:49:59 <smoku> and exemplary of the whole ovi ecosystem
Jun 30 20:50:36 <Damion3> I use gtalk via irssi and bitlbee in a screen session I ssh to from my n950
Jun 30 20:50:45 <smoku> Damion3, there is. you just need to do it right, not outsource it to some god forgotten dev centre
Jun 30 20:51:06 <smoku> like nokia did with ovi
Jun 30 20:51:20 <Damion3> and before that n900 and e90 before, 9300...9500, 9210, 9110, 9000
Jun 30 20:51:42 <smoku> same session? :D
Jun 30 20:51:46 <Damion3> heh
Jun 30 20:51:57 <smoku> nice uptime you got there :)
Jun 30 20:52:03 <Damion3> I've had 4 year screen sessions
Jun 30 20:52:28 <peterbjornx> are there any plans for a Atom MeeGo phone?
Jun 30 20:52:36 <Damion3> there is a box at the bbc with about 13 years uptime or some such silly amount
Jun 30 20:52:53 <smoku> LOL...
Jun 30 20:52:53 <smoku> [22:45:25] twitter.com: OviPublish: Nokia Ovi Store success: TenPearls: 1.4m downloads globally- http://t.co/HR2FyEM
Jun 30 20:53:01 <Damion3> peterbjornx: I hope so, don't know who'd do it though
Jun 30 20:53:02 <smoku> 1.4m globally.... nice "success" :D
Jun 30 20:53:19 <Damion3> nokia have does intel compatible hones before
Jun 30 20:53:35 <Damion3> the 9000 and 9110 could run command.com
Jun 30 20:53:56 <peterbjornx> yh but was it really a PC command.com or some native file?
Jun 30 20:53:56 <smoku> peterbjornx, intel for sure has plans. but not for the current atom generation.  the upcoming one
Jun 30 20:54:07 <Damion3> peterbjornx: native
Jun 30 20:54:21 <Damion3> it supported INT 10h
Jun 30 20:54:24 <RST38h> 1.4m is a lot
Jun 30 20:54:30 <Damion3> was 486
Jun 30 20:54:34 <peterbjornx> lol
Jun 30 20:54:46 <peterbjornx> why was  bochs so slow on n900
Jun 30 20:55:00 <peterbjornx> as ive had pc's with comparable specs performing better
Jun 30 20:55:01 <RST38h> peter: you really have to ask?
Jun 30 20:55:11 <Damion3> it didn't have screen ram at b800:0000 but was quite pclike
Jun 30 20:55:33 <smoku> RST38h, comparing to 500k android activations a DAY
Jun 30 20:55:46 <Damion3> x86 version of solitaire is quite fast in qemu (user)
Jun 30 20:55:58 <peterbjornx> lol, so in theory you could've ported a windows os to it with custom vid drivers
Jun 30 20:56:04 <peterbjornx> nt 3 or something
Jun 30 20:56:31 <Damion3> peterbjornx: uh... not really enough ram/storage.  it's os was GDOS
Jun 30 20:56:42 <Damion3> this'll all be on wikipedia
Jun 30 20:56:43 <RST38h> smoku: Do not compare to Android.
Jun 30 20:56:58 <RST38h> smoku: Besides, I doubt you would get 1.4m downloads in the Android app store
Jun 30 20:57:07 <smoku> RST38h, so, to which other competition should I compare to? :)
Jun 30 20:57:14 <RST38h> smoku: Lots and lots of fecal matter there, very difficult to get your app seen
Jun 30 20:57:15 <ali1234> see that's what i don't get
Jun 30 20:57:24 <RST38h> smoku: RiM:)
Jun 30 20:57:41 <smoku> RST38h, that's one _very_ unfortunate name ;-)
Jun 30 20:57:54 <ali1234> 1.8M downloads is a success... they have 11 apps, so that's 160000 downloads per app
Jun 30 20:57:54 <RST38h> smoku: yea, on many levels, I am afraid :)
Jun 30 20:58:09 <ali1234> but the most downloaded apps on maemo 5 extras have 200000 downloads
Jun 30 20:58:24 <RST38h> smoku: Anyway, I am planning to try putting some of my stuff on the Android app store
Jun 30 20:58:30 <ali1234> i don't understand how this can be the case when there is about 100x as many symbian phones
Jun 30 20:58:37 <RST38h> smoku: Also going to put it into Meego app store (for free)
Jun 30 20:58:52 <RST38h> smoku: So, we will see how well each goes, for the same app =)
Jun 30 20:59:07 <smoku> RST38h, these are 1.4m downloads for the whole ovi store. globally.  not for one app.
Jun 30 20:59:18 <Damion3> wanting/installing apps is surprisingly niche
Jun 30 20:59:19 <RST38h> Ah, that is for the whole thing?
Jun 30 20:59:20 <RST38h> Ok
Jun 30 20:59:30 <ali1234> Damion3: it used to be, but not any more
Jun 30 20:59:38 <Damion3> but enough iphone ppl do it it seems popular
Jun 30 20:59:47 <smoku> or not.
Jun 30 20:59:53 <ali1234> Damion3: the average iphone user *buys* 6 apps per *month*
Jun 30 20:59:57 <smoku> just googled TenPearls - it's a publisher
Jun 30 21:00:05 <Damion3> look at the gazillions of people wh don't care and just get on with tneir symbian phones
Jun 30 21:00:10 <smoku> ok. for one publisher 1.4m downloads is a succes
Jun 30 21:00:18 <RST38h> smoku: See?
Jun 30 21:00:19 <peterbjornx> i dont get the whole app thing
Jun 30 21:00:19 * smoku gets under the table and barks
Jun 30 21:00:28 <ali1234> yes, the reason i use a symbian phone is because it is a good phone. i don't care about apps
Jun 30 21:00:37 <Damion3> peterbjornx: I use ssh and....um?
Jun 30 21:00:38 <RST38h> don't need to get it, it is a religious thing.
Jun 30 21:00:49 <ali1234> the best thing about symbian is they put all the effort into making the phone and PIM functions actually work in a decent way
Jun 30 21:00:50 <peterbjornx> isnt it a de-development, like worse than what was before it
Jun 30 21:00:52 <RST38h> marketing people get it, on the faith level
Jun 30 21:01:10 <RST38h> de-de-what?
Jun 30 21:01:12 <peterbjornx> why use a app for every newspaper if theres a RSS application
Jun 30 21:01:19 <smoku> ali1234, you are basically required to give your credit card number to use the iPod/iPhone
Jun 30 21:01:43 <ali1234> i would never use one even if it was free
Jun 30 21:01:45 <smoku> ali1234, so getting these users to click "buy for $1" and then regretting the desision is easy
Jun 30 21:01:47 <ali1234> os x is bad enough
Jun 30 21:02:08 <ali1234> but yeah, i can see where you're coming from
Jun 30 21:02:14 <Damion3> I'd like to like osx
Jun 30 21:02:28 <peterbjornx> OSX isnt that bad
Jun 30 21:02:36 <peterbjornx> but i prefer linux
Jun 30 21:02:37 <ali1234> supposed to be getting an android soon
Jun 30 21:02:48 <ali1234> never tried it before. tbh i don't expect to like it
Jun 30 21:02:55 <Damion3> been a hardcore terminal/x11 man for too many decades
Jun 30 21:02:59 <ali1234> even though i use google for everything pretty much
Jun 30 21:03:10 <peterbjornx> i just hope my n8 sells for a good price so i can get another n900 or save for a n9
Jun 30 21:03:45 <Damion3> ali1234: been on Google+ ?
Jun 30 21:03:57 <ali1234> no
Jun 30 21:04:08 <ali1234> i dunno how you "go on it"
Jun 30 21:04:40 <Damion3> you get invited to somebodies circle I think
Jun 30 21:04:47 <ali1234> ah
Jun 30 21:04:57 <ali1234> well, i don't use social networks, so i'm not really interested
Jun 30 21:05:00 <pierce> someone sent me a google+ invite last night, but when I went to click it this morning is was 404 :-(
Jun 30 21:05:08 <smoku> invited.... viral marketing 101
Jun 30 21:05:10 <Damion3> I found it hard to use, but then I can't use FB either
Jun 30 21:05:12 <pierce> ali1234: you are on a social network right now :-)
Jun 30 21:05:25 <ali1234> really? where do i get my FREE SMILEYS?
Jun 30 21:05:29 <Damion3> I'm 36 ffs it's not irc enough ;)
Jun 30 21:06:19 <peterbjornx> lol
Jun 30 21:06:48 <ali1234> i was talking the other day about how i don't like all this "autosuggest" stuff
Jun 30 21:06:48 <peterbjornx> if it was up to me, "social network sites" wouldnt have been invented
Jun 30 21:07:12 <peterbjornx> i mean, its like a voluntary give-up-your-privacy system
Jun 30 21:07:19 <ali1234> not just that
Jun 30 21:07:20 <Damion3> I've been socialising online for many years thens youngen uostarts and their facebook piss me off
Jun 30 21:07:31 <ali1234> you also are being shielded from seeing anything you don't like
Jun 30 21:07:39 <ali1234> you'll never be challenged on facebook
Jun 30 21:07:47 <ali1234> not unless 4chan is raiding itor something
Jun 30 21:07:57 <peterbjornx> lol
Jun 30 21:08:01 <smoku> peterbjornx, if it's voluntary, what's the problem then?
Jun 30 21:08:15 <Damion3> whah was wrong with ytalk, write, finger, telnet chatmud.net 9999, ircii ... ?
Jun 30 21:08:47 <peterbjornx> well, from my personal experience, too many people join because its popular and dont think about the whole privacy thing
Jun 30 21:08:51 <pierce> Damion3: harder to manage photo album
Jun 30 21:08:53 <Damion3> sorry for all the typos, still getting used to n950 keyboard
Jun 30 21:08:54 <ali1234> the difference between irc and facebook and twitter is simple
Jun 30 21:09:01 <ali1234> on irc you block people you don't like
Jun 30 21:09:01 <smoku> ali1234, what's wrong with shielding?  i do not like to see things i do not like to see
Jun 30 21:09:09 <ali1234> on social networks you friend the people you do like
Jun 30 21:09:35 <Damion3> ali1234: twitter is worryingly similar to irc, what with #channels you can follow
Jun 30 21:10:16 <ali1234> Damion3: i "use" twitter through my instant messaging client so it is basically identical for me
Jun 30 21:10:23 <ali1234> but of course i don't actually use twitter
Jun 30 21:10:53 <Damion3> my wife follows people and tells me what's up in the world
Jun 30 21:10:58 <peterbjornx> i dislike the idea of posting what you are doing at any given moment to the internet
Jun 30 21:11:00 <ali1234> that is, i don't personally know any of the people i follow and i never post anything
Jun 30 21:11:10 * Damion3 also isn't on it
Jun 30 21:11:13 <ali1234> i just use it to get news really
Jun 30 21:11:31 <peterbjornx> and for news i check rss feeds,front pages and news sites like google news
Jun 30 21:11:45 <Damion3> peterbjornx: I do that sometimes on irc
Jun 30 21:11:49 <Damion3> and buzz at work
Jun 30 21:12:09 <ali1234> i don't mean news news, i mean like "we posted a new video today" for people that don't use youtube
Jun 30 21:12:54 <peterbjornx> well, i think theres a difference in saying what you  are doing in a chat room that keeping a "micro web log
Jun 30 21:13:22 <ali1234> smoku: what is wrong with shielding is you'll never see anything that makes you question your beliefs EVER
Jun 30 21:13:36 <peterbjornx> sometimes i see tweets like : bored, going to msn for a bit..
Jun 30 21:13:57 <berndhs> I just don't want to pollute the web with "I had salad with bacon bits for lunch"
Jun 30 21:14:17 <Damion3> peterbjornx: so buzz and your followers is better there.  and the replacement Google+
Jun 30 21:14:37 <smoku> ali1234, humans do not like their beliefs questioned
Jun 30 21:14:55 <ali1234> so?
Jun 30 21:15:07 <ali1234> humans should never have to do anything that they don't like?
Jun 30 21:15:11 <peterbjornx> i think the best web developments in the past (+/-)10 years have been: youtube, wikipedia, the advanced discussion fora and image upload sites
Jun 30 21:15:18 <Damion3> smoku: huh?  most scientific people love their beliefs to be questioned
Jun 30 21:15:38 <peterbjornx> i think it is important to a healthy mind to have your beleifs questioned
Jun 30 21:15:47 <ali1234> i think so too
Jun 30 21:15:50 <RST38h> normal humans should keep humans who do not like their beliefs questioned under constant supervision, preferably in captivity
Jun 30 21:16:17 <RST38h> [and sometimes match them against each other, for lulz]
Jun 30 21:16:19 <andre__> peterbjornx: to represent the broader interwebs user base, I guess porn is covered by the youtube category? ;-)
Jun 30 21:16:33 <peterbjornx> if your beleifs dont get questioned, you will lose your grip of reality eventually
Jun 30 21:16:37 <berndhs> it is also very useful to know the beliefs of people you don't agree with
Jun 30 21:16:44 <smoku> Damion3, scientists are not typical people
Jun 30 21:17:00 <Damion3> smoku: which is a pity
Jun 30 21:17:04 <peterbjornx> well, i didnt include that but well i think i'd not group it under youtube
Jun 30 21:17:33 <peterbjornx> i was thinking more of sharing useful videos without the hassle of setting up a streaming server
Jun 30 21:17:35 <andre__> it's all video streaming... :)
Jun 30 21:17:42 <Damion3> google is full of engineers.  That's a pretty nice environment
Jun 30 21:17:46 <smoku> ali1234, humans do not like to do things they do not like.  shortcuting to "they shouldn't" is lazy thinking ;P
Jun 30 21:18:22 <peterbjornx> i think most intelligent people think like scientists nowadays
Jun 30 21:18:27 <peterbjornx> atleast the people i know
Jun 30 21:18:42 <RST38h> christian scientists? =)
Jun 30 21:18:45 * RST38h cackles
Jun 30 21:18:52 <peterbjornx> like to hear new information even if that is opposite to what they think
Jun 30 21:19:02 * peterbjornx doesnt get the joke
Jun 30 21:19:14 <berndhs> there's also a difference between intellectually believing something and emotionally believing it
Jun 30 21:19:35 <smoku> berndhs, huh? care to explain the difference?
Jun 30 21:19:39 <berndhs> pretty much everyone knows they will die, but the under-30 crowd doesn't really believe it
Jun 30 21:19:56 <peterbjornx> true, id like to beleive in a "heaven" emotionally but intellectually i think the idea is ridiculous
Jun 30 21:20:45 <Damion3> my daughter has just turned 5, and although I've told her about magic stuff like fairies, she has _already_ sussed that it's just a bit of a laugh and not really true, they don't actually exist.  I told her that some silly people believe in a perportadly magic jew called jebus and she can't see why they'd believe in magic things
Jun 30 21:21:42 <berndhs> right, but many scientists believe it, and they are definetely not silly people
Jun 30 21:21:55 <smoku> peterbjornx, so you would like heaven to be, but you do not believe in it.
Jun 30 21:22:03 <smoku> you like the idea only
Jun 30 21:22:34 <dm8tbr> smoku: btw - my pony just grew up, might be a different ride now ;)
Jun 30 21:22:57 <Myrtti> how random topic.
Jun 30 21:23:04 <Myrtti> Nonetheless, thank you for it.
Jun 30 21:23:04 <peterbjornx> true too
Jun 30 21:23:17 <smoku> berndhs, but they do redefine heaven from "place up there with angels and stuff", to "a place the immortal soul goes after death, if such soul do exist"
Jun 30 21:23:23 <smoku> and that's a difference
Jun 30 21:23:31 <peterbjornx> i ment the latter too
Jun 30 21:23:49 <berndhs> they believe in something that can't be proven or disproven
Jun 30 21:24:00 <peterbjornx> but im the kind of person that doesnt beleive in anything besides the physical world we live in
Jun 30 21:24:37 <berndhs> peterbjornx: that's perfedtly reasonable, but doesn't make a different belief silly
Jun 30 21:24:47 <smoku> berndhs, that's the whole point of belief. doesn't matter if based on emotions of intelectual hunch
Jun 30 21:25:11 <peterbjornx> i dont think other beleifs are
Jun 30 21:25:20 <peterbjornx> its just my personal opinion
Jun 30 21:25:28 <berndhs> my point is that people can intellectually know that something is exceedingly unlikely and still emotionally believe the opposite
Jun 30 21:25:40 <peterbjornx> yes
Jun 30 21:26:01 <peterbjornx> which is a good thing, because otherwise lots of people would get depressed
Jun 30 21:26:04 <smoku> peterbjornx, do you believe in love?
Jun 30 21:26:10 <peterbjornx> yes
Jun 30 21:26:20 <smoku> peterbjornx, is love physical then?
Jun 30 21:26:25 <smoku> and I do not mean sex
Jun 30 21:26:27 <Stskeeps|holiday> religion and pink ponies to #meego-bar pleas
Jun 30 21:26:30 <Stskeeps|holiday> e
Jun 30 21:26:44 <peterbjornx> ok
Jun 30 21:26:48 <berndhs> Stskeeps|holiday: no this is about marketing :P
Jun 30 21:26:53 <smoku> Stskeeps|holiday, I would shut up and suggest the same if we were interrupting real discussion
Jun 30 21:27:05 <smoku> but it's kind of dead here at the time anyway ;P
Jun 30 21:27:21 <Stskeeps|holiday> a lot of different people, nationalities, religions, etc here who has to work together :P
Jun 30 21:27:43 <peterbjornx> well, lets move to meego-bar for the sake of regulations
Jun 30 21:27:43 <berndhs> some of the best marketing exploits exactly the things we are talking about
Jun 30 21:30:16 <peterbjornx> smoku, cause you are not in meego-bar, i do, but i see it (intellectually) as a physical process in the nervous system
Jun 30 21:30:27 <smoku> i'm trying to join
Jun 30 21:30:44 <smoku> but it seems freenode has no love for me today ;-)
Jun 30 21:33:39 <Damion3> believing in silly things like magic, which can easily be proved are silly, is silly.
Jun 30 21:33:39 <berndhs> is the tablet UX source in some identifiable repository ? gitorious has MeeGo-Handset US, Netbook UX, IVI UX, and just plain UX, btu not tablet
Jun 30 21:35:10 <smoku> berndhs, "@MeeGo Tablet" and "@MeeGo Tablet Applications" patterns in 1.2 repo
Jun 30 21:42:34 <bash`> hi everyone
Jun 30 21:43:05 <bash`> I'm trying to install meego on my n900's eMMC, but the de-installer fails
Jun 30 21:43:36 <bash`> the flashing goes ok, but the n900 display shows "starting netcat for initial connection check"
Jun 30 21:43:43 <bash`> then nothing else..
Jun 30 21:43:59 <bash`> I already waited ~40 minutes...any help?
Jun 30 21:47:41 <Damion3> not tried it myself
Jun 30 21:48:10 <Damion3> presumably networking isn't working
Jun 30 21:48:36 <Damion3> nc supports a timeout, you'd assume it would use it
Jun 30 21:49:26 <rafael2k> I'm in the second batch of the N950!
Jun 30 21:49:29 <rafael2k> iuhuuuul!
Jun 30 21:49:43 <Damion3> hat does that mean?
Jun 30 21:49:54 <Damion3> w!!
Jun 30 21:51:06 <Damion3> oh someone from nokia emailed me asking for clarification of my dev project, I'll go use a real keyboard for that reply :)
Jun 30 21:52:02 <ieatlint> just tell them you want an n950 to develop proprietary applications and to review the device
Jun 30 21:52:05 <ieatlint> worked for me
Jun 30 21:52:48 <Damion3> I'm using one now on loan from a colleage, she mentioned nokia were practially throwing them at us
Jun 30 21:53:37 <rafael2k> this is good news
Jun 30 21:54:14 <ieatlint> should be interesting to see what comes out of the device giveaways
Jun 30 21:54:19 <ieatlint> hopefully some awesomeness :)
Jun 30 21:57:20 <bash`> Damion3: hi, I'm using the timoph's installer
Jun 30 21:57:51 <Damion3> I emailed the developer @nokia.com whose name was down against meego-terminal thanking him saying it turned a device which essentailly a brick to me, in to something magically useful.  his response was guarded but with obvious undertones of depression at the nokia managment and strategy
Jun 30 21:57:53 <bash`> I guess I should re-create the initrd, but I don't know how
Jun 30 21:59:05 <Damion3> bash`: is it looking for wifi?
Jun 30 21:59:19 <Damion3> or usbnet or something
Jun 30 21:59:30 <bash`> yes usb0
Jun 30 21:59:48 <Damion3> you have dhcp daemon on the other end?
Jun 30 22:00:08 <bash`> I set up the ip addresses
Jun 30 22:02:38 <bash`> Damion3: I can ping it...
Jun 30 22:04:49 <Damion3> you need somebody who has done this to help ideally, I'm just using unixy knowledge
Jun 30 22:05:09 <bash`> ok, anyway this:
Jun 30 22:05:12 <bash`> dd if=mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-ce-stable-1.2.0.90.5.20110621.5.DE.2011-06-23.1-mmcblk0p.raw bs=256k | nc 192.168.2.15 500
Jun 30 22:05:14 <bash`> do nothing
Jun 30 22:05:35 <bash`> this means the n900 doesn't accept the connection?
Jun 30 22:06:10 <bash`> 192.168.2.15 500 (isakmp): Connection refused
Jun 30 22:06:13 <bash`> yep..
Jun 30 22:07:23 <Damion3> is the n900 running nc -p 500 -l > /dev/mmcblk?? something?
Jun 30 22:08:21 <Damion3> that will take an awfully long time with no progress
Jun 30 22:08:34 <Damion3> no progress shown I mean
Jun 30 22:09:05 <Damion3> so maybe you just need to wait longer?
Jun 30 22:09:14 <bash`>  /bin/nc -l -p 500 -e /bin/sh
Jun 30 22:09:21 <bash`> Damion3: that's what the n900 is running
Jun 30 22:09:39 <Damion3> sh eh?
Jun 30 22:09:46 <bash`> yes
Jun 30 22:09:56 <Damion3> maybe that .raw feeds shell commands in
Jun 30 22:10:12 <Damion3> how large is it?
Jun 30 22:10:18 <bash`> the raw file?
Jun 30 22:10:21 <Damion3> yeah
Jun 30 22:10:42 <bash`> 381MB
Jun 30 22:11:04 <Damion3> also if you're getting connection refused something clearly is wrong if that nc command is running as it should be fine
Jun 30 22:11:05 <bash`> sorry 3.6GB
Jun 30 22:11:26 <Damion3> you can test with telnet
Jun 30 22:12:01 <bash`> but I should edit the initrd, right?
Jun 30 22:12:02 <Damion3> 3.6GB?  try waiting long enough for 3.6GB to transfer over usbnet
Jun 30 22:12:31 <Ulf_> Hi
Jun 30 22:12:32 <bash`> $ echo "raw" | nc -v 192.168.2.15 500
Jun 30 22:12:33 <bash`> 192.168.2.15 500 (isakmp): Connection refused
Jun 30 22:16:44 <CosmoHill> f**king hicups, where do they come from
Jun 30 22:18:01 <Damion3> you're using a flashed kernel and initrd that leaves you with a netcat process to dump an image to emcc?
Jun 30 22:18:12 <bash`> yes
Jun 30 22:18:16 <Damion3> 3.6GB will take an age to copy
Jun 30 22:18:46 <Damion3> sorry I've not bothered doing this myself I'm just generically familiar with linux installations
Jun 30 22:19:11 <bash`> ok
Jun 30 22:19:16 <bash`> anyway I'm using these scripts https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-quality-assurance/meego-ai/trees/master
Jun 30 22:19:19 <Damion3> I have to go anyway and you're safer asking somebody who knows
Jun 30 22:19:30 <bash`> no problem!
Jun 30 22:19:34 <bash`> thanks anyway Damion3
Jun 30 22:20:26 <Damion3> that nc on the n900 you said was running, was that in ps?  cos if that were running, I can't see how you're getting conn. refused
Jun 30 22:20:39 <Damion3> that webpage's readme confirms my assumptions
Jun 30 22:21:11 <Damion3> you certain you've set up the usbnet IPs on phone and pc correctly?
Jun 30 22:21:26 <Damion3> jeez it's 11pm and i've not eaten, sorry have to go :)
Jun 30 22:21:30 <bash`> yep I can ping it
Jun 30 22:22:14 <bash`> I don't know if it is running because I can't root in the n900 now
Jun 30 22:22:38 <bash`> but the next line in the initrd.init starts nc
Jun 30 22:22:55 <bash`> the n900 still says "starting netcat for initial connection check"
Jun 30 22:23:23 <smoku> gotta love rpm toolchain - it even corrects my spelling :D
Jun 30 22:23:24 <smoku> RPMLINT report: xorg-x11-drv-imx.armv7l: W: spelling-error-in-description C accelleration acceleration
Jun 30 22:45:37 <bash`> timoph: I need to regenerate the initrd for the de-installer, can you help me on this when you are available? thanks
Jun 30 22:48:11 <peterbjornx> initrd on n900 :O
Jun 30 22:48:45 <peterbjornx> doesnt the n900 boot straight from rootfs?
Jun 30 23:22:18 * CosmoHill sets fire to Guest78061 
Jun 30 23:38:57 <Termana> morning
Jun 30 23:39:13 <berndhs> afternoon
Jun 30 23:40:06 <CosmoHill> teacake!
Jun 30 23:55:55 * CosmoHill needs to be up in 5 hours
Jul 01 01:57:35 <Coke> Hi
Jul 01 02:32:18 <Jay_BEE> hello.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 01 02:59:57 2011