**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 25 02:59:57 2011 Jul 25 04:42:32 you here lbt? Jul 25 04:49:04 or xfade Jul 25 04:49:58 think you might catch them a little too early. they're in european timezone Jul 25 04:50:15 unfortunate Jul 25 06:00:36 ping Jul 25 06:00:40 oops Jul 25 07:59:02 I've been corrupted by the exopc, didn't remember how slow zypper was when the fs was on a sdcard Jul 25 08:24:50 Should this work with the community obs, all I get is "HTTP Error 404: Not Found": $ osc -A https://api.pub.meego.com co MeeGo.com:devel:kernel:kernel-adaptation-intel-automotive Jul 25 08:29:01 remove the last ':' Jul 25 08:37:29 is it normal for the n900 running meego to suddenly decide to shutdown/reboot?-) Jul 25 08:37:47 no? ;) Jul 25 08:38:19 or burn it's battery even when connected Jul 25 08:38:24 what version? Jul 25 08:38:34 testing Jul 25 08:38:49 specificall which Jul 25 08:39:11 1.2.0.90.9.20110719.4 Jul 25 08:39:21 ok Jul 25 08:39:44 just flashed it on it, was running some process that did consume ~90% of cpu for a while on it tho Jul 25 08:39:58 and the batter might be a bit low Jul 25 08:40:19 our constraints are a bit odd on there, so i think you're hitting one of our known bugs Jul 25 08:41:04 oh, ok, automatic shutdown based on some drain logic? Jul 25 08:41:37 yeah Jul 25 09:18:32 can someone tell me how to create an .rpm file from a .spec inside a chroot environment, Jul 25 09:18:41 i am looking at http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.2/MeeGo_SDK_1.2_Preview_for_Linux/Create_RPM_Package_For_MeeGo_Application Jul 25 09:19:22 but not able to install "build" Jul 25 09:19:38 wiki page says "Install build on your Linux host machine. You can find the repo link and packages at MeeGo Tools Repo." Jul 25 09:20:23 can i install build on my Host Ubuntu machine using synaptic and use that inside MeeGo chrooted env? Jul 25 09:20:30 rpmbuild -bb Jul 25 09:20:51 and the specfile Jul 25 09:21:56 hmm.. ok, there's some build command too Jul 25 09:22:13 vvaltone: rpmbuild -bb where should i run this command? Jul 25 09:22:20 inside my chroot? Jul 25 09:22:23 yes Jul 25 09:22:58 it needs to have the correct directory layout, but it should bug you about it ;P Jul 25 09:23:42 but I am not getting how installing build on my Linux host machine should solve the problem as per the meego wiki page http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.2/MeeGo_SDK_1.2_Preview_for_Linux/Create_RPM_Package_For_MeeGo_Application Jul 25 09:24:33 I think build is for making a chroot, copying the files over and running rpmbuild Jul 25 09:24:54 so, it doesn't really make sense to install it into a chroot Jul 25 09:26:52 vvaltone:let say you are using qtcreator inside a chroot env and writing a plug-in, the best way to create the deployable .rpm is by going inside your source folder and running the rpmbuild -bb with the .spec file Jul 25 09:26:58 am I correct? Jul 25 09:58:44 ysss: i wonder if we're witnessing the last moments of maemo.org, it certainly looks at a point of no return now :P Jul 25 09:59:41 :( Jul 25 10:19:56 bkalinga, I couldn't say about 'the best way', but if it's a valid spec file and a meego chroot, it'll work Jul 25 10:20:45 vvaltone: ok, but from Qtcreator cant we create it? Jul 25 10:20:58 lbt_away: so, mxr seems to have finished and is now doing normal daily updates :) Jul 25 10:21:11 i didn't get my daily "i'm unhappy" message from cron Jul 25 10:21:19 i can see in Qtcreator that deploy option is disabled Jul 25 10:22:04 for people curious about the status of http://mxr.meego.com they can visit http://mxr.meego.com/hgweb.cgi Jul 25 10:22:17 which will show them when each repository was last updated Jul 25 10:22:44 bkalinga, I've never used that feature Jul 25 10:22:46 note that there is a delay between pulling in new data and updating the local index (possibly multiple hours, i'm not sure) Jul 25 10:23:54 vvaltone: but problem i face is every time i need to modify the source. i need to create ta tar.gz out of the newly modified code then put in the proper path and then run the rpmbuild -bb Jul 25 10:24:11 i understand i can write a script for this Jul 25 10:24:24 yeah, the deployment sucks Jul 25 10:24:30 but i feel this process somewhat lengthy Jul 25 10:25:13 mostly I've just built the software in a chroot working directory, and manually copied the results to the image and overwrite Jul 25 10:25:51 using rpmbuild builds the entire souce from 0 Jul 25 10:26:02 but when i use meego-sdkqtcreator with QEMU i dont do all these stuff directly build your code from qtcreator and deploy it Jul 25 10:26:14 it will get deployed in your QEMU Jul 25 11:29:54 yay: /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.4pUxY0: line 1: 3807 Segmentation fault /sbin/ldconfig Jul 25 11:31:16 on-device? Jul 25 11:32:52 lardman, my mum noticed a tv program using 2d barcodes for more recipe info over the weekend Jul 25 11:33:09 I was happily able to show her mbarcode and she ooohed and ahhed Jul 25 11:33:24 she also thinks n950 is pretty and very swish Jul 25 11:33:30 heh Jul 25 11:33:37 fwiw, I *love* my BlackBerry Jul 25 11:33:42 yes, we saw that too and I cursed that I've not installed mbarcode on the N950 yet Jul 25 11:33:43 Stskeeps, yeah Jul 25 11:33:44 hiya timeless \o Jul 25 11:33:52 timeless, lots of people do Jul 25 11:34:02 love his blackberry? Jul 25 11:34:03 which model do you have? Jul 25 11:34:04 ;) Jul 25 11:34:06 BlackBerry Travel, BlackBerry Maps, and its general BBM/Mail stuff Jul 25 11:34:09 lardman, lol Jul 25 11:34:11 lcuk: 9800 Torch Jul 25 11:34:12 vvaltone: please report as a bug Jul 25 11:34:16 splash protector! Jul 25 11:34:23 timeless, does it have a torch on it? Jul 25 11:34:29 i wondered since I heard the name Jul 25 11:34:40 lcuk: it worked *really* well in Paris given that I turned off my cellular radio when I left Canada Jul 25 11:34:52 stskeeps: seems like it. it'll be a death where no one mourns.. Jul 25 11:35:00 the apps were able to cache enough data to let me survive and do stuff between (wifi) network bursts Jul 25 11:35:22 timeless, that was historically the point where mobiles degrade - how to handle roaming Jul 25 11:35:41 lcuk: yeah, which is why i'm loving my BlackBerry Jul 25 11:35:42 good stuff if Blackberry have that handled Jul 25 11:35:48 it was really amazing Jul 25 11:35:52 :D Jul 25 11:36:07 i pointed to a few things on Maps and when I was offline, I could still see them and do stuff Jul 25 11:36:12 timeless, do you use evernote on blackberry? it doesn't cache data too well on that app... Jul 25 11:36:13 even for points that weren't on screen Jul 25 11:36:21 ysss: nope... Jul 25 11:36:32 i've installed EverNote on my mac Jul 25 11:36:35 but didn't ever use it Jul 25 11:36:39 or maybe it's just the model that i use lacks ram (9700) Jul 25 11:36:44 timeless, can Qt apps work on it? Jul 25 11:37:53 Stskeeps, hmm.. actually it's a kernel oops Jul 25 11:38:04 there is a Qt port for QNX, I don't know how complete it is Jul 25 11:38:10 well. http://tamsblackberry.tamoggemon.com/2011/06/06/qt-for-playbook-the-first-trials/ Jul 25 11:38:10 or if that works on blackberry Jul 25 11:38:22 if you want to target the PlayBook instead of a current BlackBerry Jul 25 11:38:23 w00t, lighthouse test for future perhaps Jul 25 11:38:25 it looks like you can Jul 25 11:38:29 vvaltone: not good either ;) Jul 25 11:42:27 timeless, good stuff Jul 25 11:44:20 hey lcuk, how old is your mom? Jul 25 11:45:00 ok, that may sound funny; but i'm just asking cause you said she appreciates the n950 Jul 25 11:45:01 ysss, never ask for age of a lady Jul 25 11:45:16 ysss, she has a Samsung touch device at the moment Jul 25 11:45:22 when I showed her the n950 and stuff Jul 25 11:45:25 she enjoyed it Jul 25 11:45:32 and said the vkb was great Jul 25 11:45:42 haha, i'm old enough to know that... (at least not to ask directly at the person) Jul 25 11:45:59 samsung pocketable or tablet? the android kind yea? Jul 25 11:48:12 ysss, pocketable phone Jul 25 11:48:23 she keeps asking me to try the vkb on it and send messages using it Jul 25 11:48:32 the n950 keyboard is better Jul 25 11:48:54 that's very encouraging Jul 25 11:49:07 yes Jul 25 11:49:29 Nokia N9 would have customer from her :) Jul 25 11:50:44 :) Jul 25 11:51:11 if she could ask for any (custom) app for you to make her, what do you think she'd ask for Jul 25 11:51:24 that'd be an interesting (Bday/mom'sday/etc) present Jul 25 11:57:49 ysss, :) garden design app actually Jul 25 11:58:16 lcuk: so do you store blob data in your db, or filenames and then the images in files? Jul 25 11:58:31 to walk round her garden taking photos of her plants and animals and to catalogue them and remember their names Jul 25 11:58:46 lardman, all flat file and dynamic generation Jul 25 11:59:01 the tag clouds can include sketches and photos and movies if required Jul 25 11:59:13 and they are not stored in the db then? Jul 25 11:59:18 http://liqbase.net/grid/grid_readable.png Jul 25 11:59:20 nope Jul 25 11:59:25 col Jul 25 11:59:27 cool Jul 25 11:59:35 that grid is dynamically generated Jul 25 11:59:43 I need to save thumbnails, wondering whether to keep them in db or in fs Jul 25 11:59:52 filesystem Jul 25 12:00:00 there is thumbnail apis I gather Jul 25 12:00:17 oh right Jul 25 12:00:18 not sure how it works in qt Jul 25 12:00:20 * lardman looks Jul 25 12:00:56 albanc, do you know what the harmattan api for thumnailing is? (since you did albanart) Jul 25 12:01:01 looks like it's for contacts only though Jul 25 12:01:11 in Qt anyway Jul 25 12:02:07 lardman, i found when I put blobs into sqlite (especially the quantities I had) extracting them took longer Jul 25 12:02:21 lcuk: ok thanks Jul 25 12:02:38 not sure how to go from a QImage to a blob anyway Jul 25 12:03:04 lcuk, no, I don't know Jul 25 12:05:05 :) Jul 25 12:05:25 anyone happen to know what a timedate sqlite item is stored in? Jul 25 12:05:34 e.g. int, or a float? Jul 25 12:05:59 http://www.sqlite.org/datatype3.html 1.2 Jul 25 12:06:29 http://live.gnome.org/ThumbnailerSpec pvanhoof - is this spec valid for harmattan? Jul 25 12:07:54 w00t: thanks, but does it perform conversion for me automatically? Jul 25 12:08:20 "Applications can chose to store dates and times in any of these formats and freely convert between formats using the built-in date and time functions." Jul 25 12:08:47 it's more when I read the field from the record Jul 25 12:08:54 what type I need to read it into Jul 25 12:08:56 sqlite is typeless Jul 25 12:09:11 ok, so it will presumably convert, or the QSql stuff will do Jul 25 12:09:11 so, what you store is what you get out Jul 25 12:09:15 oh I see Jul 25 12:09:22 http://www.sqlite.org/datatypes.html see 1.0 Jul 25 12:09:56 X-Fade: hi, do you know how I could apply for an OBS account? this page mentions you https://build.pub.meego.com/user/register_user :) Jul 25 12:10:06 lbt ^ Jul 25 12:10:19 ceyusa, please indicate what you are wanting to do with your cobs account Jul 25 12:10:25 (lbt will ask the same question) Jul 25 12:10:38 ceyusa: I can do that yes. But as lcuk says ... :) Jul 25 12:10:55 morning X-Fade \o Jul 25 12:11:01 I'm currently trying to port Meego to a x86 board Jul 25 12:11:32 without intel instruction like sse3 and so Jul 25 12:11:58 so I would need to recompile most of the meego's packages :s Jul 25 12:12:00 afaik Jul 25 12:12:22 starting by the kernel, btw Jul 25 12:13:03 thanks lcuk :) Jul 25 12:14:03 ceyusa: that will be too big load for community obs Jul 25 12:14:07 ceyusa: you'll want to set up a local one Jul 25 12:15:14 Stskeeps: mmmmh... even for a minimal console based configuration, as a proof of concept Jul 25 12:15:17 ? Jul 25 12:15:27 ceyusa: yes, still a fair bunch of packages Jul 25 12:15:53 ceyusa: you can prolly pull that off with a 2ghz/1-2gb ram x86 machine Jul 25 12:17:39 ceyusa: Yeah, that is not what the community obs is for at the moment. Jul 25 12:18:07 X-Fade: Stskeeps: d'accord Jul 25 12:18:57 is it more oriented to new packages ?? Jul 25 12:19:41 ceyusa: Application development yes. Jul 25 12:20:34 ceyusa, you should have a chat with dm8tbr and vgrade and see whether whole system image could be put on the formeego site Jul 25 12:21:00 formeego? Jul 25 12:21:09 (they have most knowledge of edge case and experimental meego device images) Jul 25 12:21:10 images.formeego.org Jul 25 12:21:20 \o dm8tbr Jul 25 12:21:22 formerly http://bug10738.openaos.org/ Jul 25 12:21:25 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10738 nor, Undecided, ---, david, NEED, Meego community ftp server or similar needed Jul 25 12:21:52 * ceyusa is checking it Jul 25 12:22:19 ceyusa: what hardware are you working with? Jul 25 12:23:14 lcuk: i've had some chuckles and tears about... bug 18260 Jul 25 12:23:16 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18260 nor, Medium, Jul-29-11, changzhi.wang, ASSI, very long page stops painting Jul 25 12:23:30 the requirements are very simple: the kickstart file must be hosted together with the image, the image must contain only packages from obs and cobs, if it needs closed source bits then it needs to be cleared by me Jul 25 12:23:53 dm8tbr: it is an x86, 1GHz, but is like an a Pentium, no SSE neither other of thes instruccions Jul 25 12:24:40 dm8tbr: right now my objective is only get a console based image Jul 25 12:25:01 ceyusa: mhm, sounds like you'll need to revive the no-ssse3 project for that Jul 25 12:25:01 then I'll move to the UX Jul 25 12:25:03 timeless, oh nice find Jul 25 12:25:16 and along same lines as the awesome stresstest page Jul 25 12:25:26 dm8tbr: I saw that page on the wiki Jul 25 12:25:29 lcuk: relatives can do the darndest things? Jul 25 12:25:39 timeless, of course Jul 25 12:25:49 i have plenty of huge html files here Jul 25 12:25:52 comment 7 just made me shake my head Jul 25 12:25:55 dm8tbr: what's the status of tha project? Jul 25 12:25:58 * lcuk just converts them to plain text Jul 25 12:26:05 and testing them in the book reader Jul 25 12:26:11 how can a bug with a summary such as mine actually result in comment 7? Jul 25 12:26:20 andre__: ^ Jul 25 12:26:54 url. Jul 25 12:27:02 bug 18260 Jul 25 12:27:05 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18260 nor, Medium, Jul-29-11, changzhi.wang, ASSI, very long page stops painting Jul 25 12:27:14 lcuk: speaking of which, do you know how the meego browsers handle my stress page? Jul 25 12:27:17 haha Jul 25 12:27:20 timeless.justdave.net/stress/stress.html Jul 25 12:27:32 (different stress page fwiw) Jul 25 12:27:38 (and potentially NSFW) Jul 25 12:28:21 andre__: please do feel free to slap someone over that.. Jul 25 12:28:25 * timeless sighs Jul 25 12:28:47 no plans Jul 25 12:28:50 there's worse stuff Jul 25 12:29:00 that's... depressing Jul 25 12:29:21 i mean, why did i bother filling in all the form fields? comment 7 clearly didn't read the summary or comment 0 Jul 25 12:29:29 i even filled in "USER IMPACT:"! Jul 25 12:30:48 actually, i should check to see how the torch + playbook handle those two pages.. Jul 25 12:32:03 timeless, Jul 25 12:32:05 desktop: Jul 25 12:32:07 31656 gary 20 0 515m 219m 29m S 0 7.4 2:32.00 firefox-bin Jul 25 12:32:55 ceyusa: status is dormant Jul 25 12:33:14 dm8tbr: ok, I shall wake it up :) Jul 25 12:33:17 lcuk: yeah, browsers finally improved Jul 25 12:33:31 N4 and IE5(?) used to take around 755(?) mb Jul 25 12:33:43 the next generation of browsers took around 1.3GB Jul 25 12:33:50 (yay useless alpha channel) Jul 25 12:34:05 gecko at times (on bad days) would die (hitting the 2gb vm ceiling) Jul 25 12:34:18 ceyusa: feel free to poke me if you need more info Jul 25 12:34:24 it took years before browsers started having sane behavior.. Jul 25 12:34:36 dm8tbr: thanks!! Jul 25 12:35:12 the page looks very shiny here :) Jul 25 12:35:50 wah, it seems to die at a seahorse Jul 25 12:36:28 although die isn't in the "cause the entire page to become white" sense... Jul 25 12:36:34 just "no pictures beyond this point" Jul 25 12:36:45 ceyusa: you'll probably have to run your own OBS for that and tune the parameters for x86 to disable ssse3 optimization Jul 25 12:36:55 ooh, switching back gets me more :) Jul 25 12:37:19 lcuk: one part of the test is actually verifying that all the content loads Jul 25 12:37:25 if your browser cheats and doesn't load content... Jul 25 12:37:25 ceyusa: my best guess at the moment is that importing a current x86 build and then retriggering a full rebuild would get you almost there Jul 25 12:37:50 dm8tbr: ok Jul 25 12:38:07 timeless, last picture is lara croft Jul 25 12:38:07 lbt: anyway, "yay", happy mxr Jul 25 12:38:17 sounds right Jul 25 12:38:19 dm8tbr: I got to learn about OBS, install it and so, becasue I have no idea about it... Jul 25 12:38:33 but really, jumping to the bottom doesn't prove you don't have holes in the middle :( Jul 25 12:38:35 and figure out how to do that "import of a current build" Jul 25 12:38:44 (and yes, i've seen browsers that cheat that way) Jul 25 12:38:54 :( Jul 25 12:38:58 stress killed my browser Jul 25 12:39:09 ceyusa: the information on that is a bit scattered, for the setup you'll probably want to check the opensuse wiki, but Stskeeps has a helpful script mentioned in his guide Jul 25 12:39:16 * timeless really needs to get core submission working Jul 25 12:47:47 timeless: :) Jul 25 12:55:59 what's the best way to target N900 for development? Jul 25 12:56:13 aka.. building binaries, don't care about packages atm Jul 25 12:56:31 vvaltone, obs Jul 25 12:56:41 or for deeper, get the sdk Jul 25 12:57:13 I did once try obs, but local builds on it didn't seem to work for arm, perhaps I did something wrong Jul 25 12:57:45 for x86 I've used obs with just using the resulting chroot for active development Jul 25 13:13:52 vvaltone, hm I tried to also build meego n900 image using mic2 but ran into difficulties Jul 25 13:13:59 which host OS are you trying in? Jul 25 13:14:55 ubuntu 10.04 Jul 25 13:16:35 vvaltone, same here Jul 25 13:16:46 people recommend using fedora or some such Jul 25 13:17:43 can't see any reason to demand RPM based distro to work with mic2 Jul 25 13:18:02 mcfrisk, it was not a demand Jul 25 13:18:09 infact I was using meego netbook for it Jul 25 13:18:17 * lcuk losing marbles today Jul 25 13:18:30 i might go back to bed if this headache doesn't clear Jul 25 13:20:25 heh, sorry, too strong word. So far distro suggestions from meego.com have been all false. Had to do a few re-installations and fix a few packages. Changing distros is not a good solution. Jul 25 13:21:00 mic2 works just fine for i586 and IVI on 10.04 LTS Jul 25 13:21:36 make sure to have latest mic2, there's usually some stuff that is only there etc Jul 25 13:22:46 same for img, opensuse was just as bad as debian squeeze Jul 25 13:40:33 vvaltone: lcuk: I have a brand new install of Ubuntu 10.04 where mic2 works fine. And I have an old install of 10.04 where mic2 has somehow become broken. Jul 25 13:40:59 vvaltone: Perhaps try with a fresh VirtualBox install of 10.04, and see what you get. Jul 25 13:41:14 yeah, I'll have to do that tomorrow Jul 25 13:41:57 vvaltone: FWIW, I've been told that guys have good luck with mic2 on Fedora inside VirtualBox. Jul 25 13:42:25 oh, misread that Jul 25 13:42:54 a chroot in a virtual machine Jul 25 13:44:05 vvaltone: I've used chroot's for building packages -- but not for mic2. Jul 25 13:44:23 yeah, I've done that when I targetted x86 Jul 25 13:44:33 it's just arm that's the trouble :P Jul 25 13:45:26 mic2 on fedora 15 is still broken Jul 25 13:45:59 has to do with libzypper and rpm and python bindings Jul 25 14:35:11 lbt: is there a way for you to get my cron mail? like, can .forward send mail to multiple accounts? Jul 25 14:35:24 in theory you should never get any mail :) Jul 25 14:37:26 * w00t watches timeless try delegate Jul 25 14:37:28 ;p Jul 25 14:37:48 * timeless sees the word "try" in italics Jul 25 14:38:39 w00t: the reality is that the box runs itself Jul 25 14:38:48 and when there's a problem, the problem is infrastructure related Jul 25 14:39:07 so the right thing to do is to have someone from IT get the complaints from cron Jul 25 14:50:08 timeless: can you provide a nagios plugin for mxr please .... Jul 25 14:50:27 * lbt back l8r Jul 25 15:22:06 hmm bug 20099 Jul 25 15:22:10 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20099 nor, High, ---, marko.saukko, NEW, [CE] Calculator crashes after pressing any button and then "." . Jul 25 15:22:42 meego calculator should do fractions Jul 25 15:22:52 try pressing 0 first ? Jul 25 15:23:07 berndhs, "any button" Jul 25 15:23:27 effects tablet ux too Jul 25 15:23:35 no, "any button and then .", try "any button, then 0, then ." Jul 25 15:23:57 that would make the figure 10x larger Jul 25 15:24:03 no it won't Jul 25 15:24:06 "instead of 1.5 it would be 10.5 Jul 25 15:24:17 0.5 is the same as .5 Jul 25 15:24:25 special case Jul 25 15:24:32 the rest wouldn't be Jul 25 15:24:52 and besides, moot anyway - it crashes Jul 25 15:25:10 1/2 is ok :P Jul 25 15:25:33 i thought it referred to operation buttons, like + or - or / Jul 25 15:26:05 so to test further I suggested testing + 0.5 instead of + .5 Jul 25 15:26:15 but ok don't test it if you don't feel like it :) Jul 25 15:26:52 berndhs, the bug is in the handler for the decimal point Jul 25 15:27:01 ok dont test it Jul 25 15:27:06 ie when you press the "." button Jul 25 15:27:09 i did just test it Jul 25 15:27:10 :P Jul 25 15:28:02 good, not they know its not the number format Jul 25 15:28:41 * berndhs wondering where the boot splash image comes from Jul 25 15:29:26 wazd made it Jul 25 15:29:49 maybe some continental european wrote the code and expects a decimal comma instead of a decimal point Jul 25 15:30:20 berndhs, lol Jul 25 15:30:28 that is part of the issue I believe Jul 25 15:30:54 localeHelper.decimalPoint() Jul 25 15:30:59 was changed to a property: Jul 25 15:31:00 localeHelper.decimalPoint Jul 25 15:31:05 ah Jul 25 15:31:14 but the backend libraries did not get updated I think Jul 25 15:31:18 so regression Jul 25 15:31:33 in trying to call as a property something that is still a function Jul 25 15:31:42 or the other way round Jul 25 15:31:44 we should go back to the good old days, all-american format, ASCII, monospace,... Jul 25 15:31:53 american spelling Jul 25 15:32:05 problem is that qml errors are not identified at build time Jul 25 15:32:09 berndhs: yes Jul 25 15:32:32 qml has to be manually tested for all cases Jul 25 15:32:33 lcuk: and there's no automated testing during the build :) Jul 25 15:32:38 timeless, ^ Jul 25 15:33:03 timeless, build/compilation/sanity testing would have caught this Jul 25 15:33:08 if it was c++ Jul 25 15:33:30 well, not necessarily, but it shouln't crash in any case Jul 25 15:33:46 perhaps ignore the unknown character Jul 25 15:34:31 berndhs, the bug is related to a specific qml library function/property lookup Jul 25 15:34:37 not to the actual user entered data Jul 25 15:34:48 but yeah if you compute the functions you are calling on the fly, this sort of thing can happen Jul 25 15:34:59 the codeblock with the error only occurs when you use a decimal point Jul 25 15:38:05 hmm the tabled UX can't deal with applications that actually exit, it seems Jul 25 15:38:13 can't restart them Jul 25 15:39:10 are you sure that it closed correctly the first time Jul 25 15:39:13 and not just hidden Jul 25 15:39:19 yes its closed Jul 25 15:40:05 i can restart it manually from xterm, it behaves normally Jul 25 15:41:02 all right, put that on the list for my UX-spin :) Jul 25 15:41:10 heh Jul 25 15:42:29 the new thinking in UX design seems to be apps run until reboot, and everything is full screen all the time Jul 25 15:42:57 berndhs: that sounds like a bug Jul 25 15:43:01 the full screen I can understand for smallish screens Jul 25 15:43:01 i'm pretty sure it used to work fine Jul 25 15:43:31 yes the no-exit-and-restart seems to be a bug Jul 25 15:44:21 i'm saying in some mailing lists i've seen comments saying that closing and app doesn't happen nowadays Jul 25 15:44:53 that may be the case for some of the default apps, but it's definitely not always going to be the case for third party ones Jul 25 15:45:02 right Jul 25 15:45:12 games Jul 25 15:45:16 play for 5 minutes Jul 25 15:45:17 close Jul 25 15:45:23 play for another 5 minutes Jul 25 15:45:29 etc Jul 25 15:45:41 also depends on the device usage, read 1 book and turn it off Jul 25 15:46:12 but for a device that basically runs all day, your would expect apps come and go Jul 25 15:46:24 depends Jul 25 15:46:45 does it impact performance to leave it running? Jul 25 15:46:58 sure, you use more memory, more power Jul 25 15:47:08 is that quantifiable? Jul 25 15:47:28 ie "i have 512mb allocated and power is XYZ Ma Jul 25 15:47:32 yes its greater than zero power usage :) Jul 25 15:47:35 ie "i have 900mb allocated and power is XYZ Ma Jul 25 15:48:11 DocScrutinizer, you normally know how something like that works Jul 25 15:48:23 ? Jul 25 15:48:27 you will start swapping if you have a lot of comatose apps around Jul 25 15:48:32 power usage for memory allocation Jul 25 15:48:58 also, some apps will keep generating data models that nobody looks at Jul 25 15:49:03 does it drain battery faster to have fully allocated 1gb memory than if you keep memory footprint minimal Jul 25 15:49:06 allocation of memory quite usually doesn't change power usage Jul 25 15:49:09 berndhs, different issue Jul 25 15:49:18 memory needs power to refresh Jul 25 15:49:30 its the same issue of assuming apps live indefinetely and don't close Jul 25 15:49:39 refresh *usually* takes place for all available memory Jul 25 15:49:44 In principle the device could save power by turning off refresh on unallocated RAM Jul 25 15:49:55 it doesn't afaik Jul 25 15:50:00 But as you can only do this in quarters (typically) it's not going to Jul 25 15:50:24 There is no extra power used by RAM being full, if no swapping is occurring. Jul 25 15:50:30 Swapping means more power use Jul 25 15:50:31 thanks SpeedEvil Jul 25 15:50:34 data transfer will eat considerable chunks of power Jul 25 15:50:51 yes but there will be swapping with unused apps that dont close Jul 25 15:51:01 I assume though there would be quantifiable power usage for a MicroSD card inserted/removed Jul 25 15:51:14 which would be like turning on/off a whole bank of memory Jul 25 15:51:15 The card is suspende when not used Jul 25 15:51:25 usually, yes Jul 25 15:51:59 except with the most retarded drivers Jul 25 15:52:05 but seriously, assuming there is no cost to having apps not close is bad Jul 25 15:52:13 ack Jul 25 15:52:34 they all will hog cpu to some extent Jul 25 15:52:48 if only for rendering in taskswitcher Jul 25 15:52:51 berndhs, not assuming, just discussing Jul 25 15:53:05 the bug you have noticed may be a real bug Jul 25 15:53:11 and hence should be sorted Jul 25 15:53:11 sure, there will be some aspects where there is no cost Jul 25 15:53:24 DocScrutinizer, yes Jul 25 15:53:36 each app rendering 854*480 is heavy Jul 25 15:53:45 lcuk: o/ Jul 25 15:53:52 hello timoph \o happy monday Jul 25 15:53:58 "happy" Jul 25 15:54:02 :D Jul 25 15:54:06 Monday is always happy Jul 25 15:54:18 sometimes Jul 25 15:54:19 because you have memory of weekend + knowing only a few days to next one :P Jul 25 15:54:28 :) Jul 25 15:54:40 i don't like sundays, so mondays are often a bit of a relief :) Jul 25 15:54:48 i remade liqbook over the weekend Jul 25 15:54:55 and plumbed in all the niven books I have Jul 25 15:54:57 :) Jul 25 15:55:16 it even looks quite neat with the droid fonts o_O Jul 25 15:55:17 http://liqbase.net/liq.20110725_163156.liqbookreader.scr.png Jul 25 15:55:25 lcuk: I hope you used a goodly amount of scrith in the foundations. Jul 25 15:55:34 SpeedEvil, yes Jul 25 15:55:45 I ordered latest niven book in hardback too Jul 25 15:56:01 I'm somewhat depressed about 'recent' niven. Jul 25 15:56:28 which is a Louis Wu ringworld prequel :) Jul 25 15:56:29 Did not enjoy the newer protector novels much Jul 25 15:56:47 "newer"? Jul 25 15:56:58 >1990? Jul 25 15:57:20 last few years he has done "* of worlds" novels with Edward Lerner Jul 25 15:57:38 sounds reasonable Jul 25 15:58:06 kinetic scrolling on a 2 page view is strange Jul 25 15:58:25 so is autoscrolling actually but that is beside the point :P Jul 25 15:58:55 berndhs: I googled for "Langeweile am Sonntag / Kuchenessen mit Opa und Oma / Langeweile am Sonntag / Denkst Du liegst im Koma" , but obviously this song never made it from vinyl to internet :-) Jul 25 15:59:26 is there a meego netbook version, that can be run on normal PCs? Jul 25 16:01:15 I'm owning a hp tc1100 tablet-pc with an intel celeron and would like to use it there Jul 25 16:34:16 Where are the translation files stored? (those used by qtTrId()) Jul 25 16:44:12 ugh, I give up... what provides pkgconfig(meegolocale)? Jul 25 16:44:58 mlite, hopefully Jul 25 16:45:12 because otherwise someone needs to be shot :P Jul 25 16:46:20 hmm, I don't see that Jul 25 16:46:31 meegolabs-ux-components-liblocale-devel I think Jul 25 16:46:42 ah Jul 25 16:46:53 * krh looks Jul 25 16:47:40 shot is string, but lightly beaten for that name perhaps Jul 25 16:47:50 s/string/strong/ Jul 25 16:47:51 berndhs meant: shot is strong, but lightly beaten for that name perhaps Jul 25 16:48:32 we're trying to phase out the -labs components, right? Jul 25 16:49:53 gri: wherever the application placed them Jul 25 16:57:40 * auke walks in the office Jul 25 16:57:51 it's an auke! Jul 25 16:58:57 ok, behave everyone Jul 25 17:06:26 yeah watch out, it's monday :) Jul 25 17:07:41 * CosmoHill wondered what day it was a few hours ago Jul 25 17:08:20 4 hours ago it was tuesday in Fiji Jul 25 17:10:55 thiago: accounts-ui lets me define an catalog name which contains the translations ... but unfortunately I have no clue where it loads them from Jul 25 17:27:06 Ok, found what I was looking for in the meegotouch docs :) Jul 25 17:37:36 hello...does anyone know where i can find a nice concise list of meego 1.2 components? Jul 25 17:37:51 azchris_: http://build.meego.com - find project MeeGo:1.2:oss and click 'packages' Jul 25 17:38:55 thanks Stskeeps! Jul 25 17:39:00 no problem Jul 25 18:08:15 why is the sdk/workflow for apps so complex still Jul 25 18:08:38 is the barrier of entry to make simple ihpone/android apps so high? Jul 25 18:08:50 iphone Jul 25 18:08:59 iphone no, android is somewhere in the middle Jul 25 18:09:11 iphone is totally easy to set up the sdk Jul 25 18:09:17 ali1234, is iphone varrier simply requiring a mac? Jul 25 18:09:20 b Jul 25 18:09:22 pretty much yeah Jul 25 18:09:39 and you have to sign up for a mac store account to get the xcode Jul 25 18:09:40 can you run xcode on other devices? Jul 25 18:09:50 and you have to pay $4.99 or something for the *good* version Jul 25 18:09:52 no Jul 25 18:10:03 well $4.99 ontop of cost of mac Jul 25 18:10:17 yeah :) Jul 25 18:10:19 so its a marginal issue really Jul 25 18:10:34 unless you have issues giving away your personal details, sure Jul 25 18:10:47 meh Jul 25 18:10:59 with android, you have to find your own IDE Jul 25 18:11:04 but eclipse is the only one anyone uses Jul 25 18:11:07 i gather windows phone is quite easy Jul 25 18:11:09 i happen to not like eclipse Jul 25 18:11:22 i heard some folks getting visual studio starter versions etc Jul 25 18:11:32 and getting the sdk integrated with eclipse is kind of odd Jul 25 18:11:34 eclipse is overwhelming to most humans Jul 25 18:11:40 and then you load up eclipse and it's like "now what?" Jul 25 18:11:43 yeah exactly Jul 25 18:11:53 windows phone is the easiest one by a long long long way Jul 25 18:12:06 no sign up, no fee, just download an exe from msdn, run it, wait a while, it's done Jul 25 18:12:19 run it, and the first thing you see is "what kind of app do you want to make?" wizard Jul 25 18:12:24 could literally not be any easier Jul 25 18:12:28 yeah I am used to vs Jul 25 18:12:40 i have not used VS in years but damn was it easy Jul 25 18:12:46 * lcuk nods Jul 25 18:12:55 I ported liqflow to .net the other night Jul 25 18:13:00 it's all completely different to old versions too Jul 25 18:13:00 well, rewrote Jul 25 18:13:05 a lot better than i remember Jul 25 18:13:14 yeah ali1234 Jul 25 18:13:30 QtCreator is pretty easy too... it's deploying where it breaks down Jul 25 18:14:13 code once, deploy anywhere * Jul 25 18:14:52 * as long as you supply your own toolchain and packaging tools Jul 25 18:15:08 nahh Jul 25 18:15:14 you just have to ask venemo to do it Jul 25 18:15:22 heh Jul 25 18:15:41 * lcuk might consider venemo as a packaging tool Jul 25 18:16:12 i think he wrote the spec file for my app :) Jul 25 18:16:17 can't remember who it was Jul 25 18:43:56 * lcuk goes playing football Jul 25 19:17:41 yeah touch screens would be so much more useful if they could tell your fingers apart http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-July/483878.html Jul 25 19:18:47 berndhs, there's always "tap to right of touchpoint" or "tap to left of touch point". Jul 25 19:19:30 sort of, but not quite the same Jul 25 19:48:48 lol berndhs Jul 25 20:26:54 meegoexperts_mob: ping Jul 25 20:44:51 Hi Jul 25 20:46:21 you're either on the phone or there's a lot of you Jul 25 20:47:24 meegoexperts_mob, good evening Jul 25 20:47:29 i was talking to miika on Sunday Jul 25 20:47:40 and suggested coming to the birmingham meetup Jul 25 20:47:47 but thursday nights dude Jul 25 20:47:50 thursday nights Jul 25 20:47:57 they are (a) my local pub night Jul 25 20:47:59 Would make a change you guys coming opposed to ducking out :-P Jul 25 20:48:02 and (b) thursday Jul 25 20:48:11 see above Jul 25 20:48:17 Whats a good night for you ? Jul 25 20:48:44 well we have been meeting on sundays during (shock) daytime afternoon hours Jul 25 20:48:58 it works better transportation wise Jul 25 20:49:12 not that it really matters lol Jul 25 20:49:18 just a bus either way for local meet Jul 25 20:49:32 Anyone here fluent in German? Jul 25 20:49:54 nein Jul 25 20:55:26 there's quite a few germans in here Jul 25 20:55:51 i'm only fluent in german when i get paid for it :) Jul 25 21:04:15 berndhs, auto translate app Jul 25 21:04:21 hasn't google got one Jul 25 21:04:28 c-obs is funny ... can't use + in filename Jul 25 21:04:29 https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=python-setuptools&project=home%3Akhertan Jul 25 21:04:29 so build failed of course Jul 25 21:04:31 any idea ? Jul 25 21:04:39 google translate is terrible for german <->english Jul 25 21:04:49 for other language too :) Jul 25 21:04:52 dunno Jul 25 21:06:51 meegoexperts_mob: OK .... be like that and ignore me then... see if I care .... *sob* Jul 25 21:07:33 lbt, come to the next meego meetup Jul 25 21:07:47 lcuk: where/when ? Jul 25 21:07:51 idk Jul 25 21:07:51 Reading? Jul 25 21:08:02 miika and I had a few pints in manchester on sunday Jul 25 21:08:05 * lbt invites #meego to his house Jul 25 21:08:11 i think we will be going to september one Jul 25 21:08:22 lbt, is the pond without fish ready? Jul 25 21:08:31 no... but there's an update... Jul 25 21:08:38 * lbt haz big digger!!! Jul 25 21:08:39 and can we fill it with custard for the evening Jul 25 21:08:53 lcuk: I like it! Jul 25 21:09:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Newtonian_fluid Jul 25 21:10:54 hi all Jul 25 21:11:22 lcuk: seriously ... that bunker is built on thixotropic sand Jul 25 21:11:35 i hate the gimp UI Jul 25 21:13:29 hey dneary Jul 25 21:22:48 sorry, got side tracked by family Jul 25 21:49:58 anybody built this for exopc: http://drippler.com/nokia_n900/broadcom-crystalhd-decoder-support-for-ffmpeg-and-mplayer Jul 25 21:52:05 and this: http://www.maemonokian900.com/maemo-news/gst-av-0-5-released-now-with-video-encoding-and-decoding-support/ Jul 25 21:52:16 npm: why not build broadcoms crystalhd drivers instead? I think they plug into gstreamer Jul 25 22:11:59 it that's the better solution that would be cool. it would be nice if at some point our meego's will support the nice hardware on the exopc Jul 25 22:13:58 it sure would be nice if HD videos off youtube played back w/ acceleration by default in http://ytd-meego.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/playground/qmltube/ (which works nice on exopc btw) Jul 25 22:15:13 but as i'm busy revamping the UI on that, I was hoping there was a magic answer for that... Jul 25 22:15:39 as well as the optional ffmpeg dependency for downloading audio off videos/etc Jul 25 22:16:22 ok back to battling aegis :-) Jul 25 22:26:24 hey guys Jul 25 22:26:30 anyone here? Jul 25 22:27:12 * CosmoHill rattles his cage Jul 25 22:29:03 julienf: yes, we're here Jul 25 22:30:26 :D Jul 25 22:30:36 been playing with my N950 Jul 25 22:30:47 and I have a feeling I found a major bug Jul 25 22:31:08 where? Jul 25 22:31:10 memory gets locked into USB mode after charging on computer Jul 25 22:31:33 It's a very old image Jul 25 22:31:42 Also - #harmattan Jul 25 22:32:02 SpeedEvil: yes I know.. but I don't have any way to update it.. at least right now.. Jul 25 22:32:16 use Ovi Suite mode only. And USB networking with SSHFS mounting :-) Jul 25 22:32:46 thiago: that's an idea :) Jul 25 22:34:28 the problem is that even a reboot does not fix it :( Jul 25 22:35:04 ACT_DEAD mode Jul 25 22:35:20 you need a hard reboot. Press the Power key down for 8 seconds Jul 25 22:35:59 you know when they say in the movies they can track you if you don't take the battery off? Yeah, the phone doesn't actually turn off when you turn it off. Jul 25 22:37:03 thiago: thanks :) Jul 25 22:38:04 (1) buy Danish Cookies in metal box (2) eat (3) put phone in box Jul 25 22:40:55 julienf, what do you mean with memory getting locked? Jul 25 22:42:03 phdeswer: when I go to "camera" it tells me that the device is in USB mode Jul 25 22:43:02 thiago: does the same, even after a hard reboot.. Jul 25 22:43:34 julienf, you still have the cable plugged in? And you default to mass storage? Jul 25 22:44:04 I had a standard nokia charge plugged in Jul 25 22:44:10 trying without the charger now Jul 25 22:46:33 julienf, if you can access the memory in other ways (like viewing pics etc you can already eliminate the USB stuff. And you can only do a real reboot if you have no charger/cable plugged in. Jul 25 22:47:10 phdeswer: I can access the memory but it's read only Jul 25 22:48:22 rebooting does not solve the problem Jul 25 22:48:33 julienf, Salut Jul 25 22:48:42 dneary: salut :) Jul 25 22:48:44 julienf, How're things? Jul 25 22:48:57 julienf, and how big is that parition? Jul 25 22:49:02 dneary: things are good. In Finland right now. Moved permanently... Jul 25 22:49:05 I suspect you have a corrupted emmc Jul 25 22:49:14 My kids love the slingshot bird... my wife, not so much :) Jul 25 22:49:26 julienf, I noticed you were spending a lot of time there Jul 25 22:49:43 dneary: working for Rovio now Jul 25 22:49:47 Not at OSCON this week, I suppose? (not really on the Rovio radar, I suppose)? Jul 25 22:49:57 dneary: not really... Jul 25 22:50:05 julienf, You were working for Rovio last time we spoke too, remember? ;) Jul 25 22:50:38 phdeswer: partition seems good. I can read, but it's mounted read only Jul 25 22:50:46 dneary: yeah, that's true :) Jul 25 22:51:43 julienf, there is a ro fallback in case the emmc gets corrupted. You need to check the size to know. if it is like 128Kb and ro you have a corrupted emmc partition. Jul 25 22:52:01 it's 6GB Jul 25 22:53:21 hmm weird, should not be ro then. Jul 25 22:53:22 phdeswer: 2GB for /home and 8 for /hom/user/MyDocs Jul 25 22:53:58 camera gives you a wrong message anyway in case it cannot write to /home/user/MyDocs... Jul 25 22:54:11 (try to explain to the UI people that it is a bad idea) Jul 25 22:54:12 phdeswer: ok Jul 25 22:54:56 phdeswer: any idea on how I could recover RW? Jul 25 22:55:26 julienf, first check /etc/fstab to see if the mount options are ok Jul 25 23:18:12 why is it that I tell mic2 "-netbook-backgrounds" and it goes and installs it anyway ? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 26 02:59:56 2011