**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 02 02:59:57 2011 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 02 03:41:18 2011 Aug 02 04:42:08 moaning Aug 02 04:56:25 the foul language in this channel is out of control! Aug 02 04:56:31 moaning Aug 02 04:56:34 * sofar giggles Aug 02 05:03:17 mood groaning sofar Aug 02 05:03:32 you sir Aug 02 05:03:37 make me want to open a beer Aug 02 05:03:42 :) Aug 02 06:02:21 :) Aug 02 06:38:58 Stskeeps: In conversation with lbt it came up that the bot thing still needs consolidation. should we work on it together? Aug 02 06:41:03 dm8tbr: yes, i've just been a bit mind absent lately to do anything about it Aug 02 07:26:21 X-Fade: Stskeeps: have you seen any announcements from LF? Aug 02 07:27:20 no, but as they're US based.. Aug 02 07:28:42 yep Aug 02 07:48:23 http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Apps/Problem_Statement Aug 02 07:59:02 lbt: wth? Aug 02 08:00:10 timoph: you know we've been kinda distracted wrt obs and stuff recently... well Aug 02 08:00:22 :/ Aug 02 08:00:54 I'd move c.obs to formeego.org Aug 02 08:01:04 it is regrettable that LF moves itself out of the picture without showing a possible way to go Aug 02 08:01:41 well, that's for "the community" to decide. Aug 02 08:01:49 my work to get to the forMeeGo situation was to avoid uncontrolled community fragmentation Aug 02 08:03:19 I tried to keep my opinion separate... though I made up the options so would be glad to see more. My serious suggestions is to leave meego.com as a TM placeholder with .img and .rpm downloads and a web page Aug 02 08:03:19 still I'd expect a high profile thing as apps.$whatever to be whatever=meego.com, though as lbt stated I'm happy to give the formeego domain to be used by any community efforts. Aug 02 08:03:37 "community" decision making in meego is pretty much non-existant Aug 02 08:03:54 reading now... unsettling Aug 02 08:04:15 "community" == OSS folk and non paid contributors Aug 02 08:04:24 a split like redhat/fedora, suse/opensuse is what should have been encouraged and fostered by LF instead of letting it happen out of necessity Aug 02 08:04:35 true Aug 02 08:06:29 but as meego is 'that business thing' the community remains an afterthought and necessary evil it seems Aug 02 08:06:54 * dm8tbr tones down the devils advocate hat a notch Aug 02 08:07:09 :) Aug 02 08:08:52 * timoph kicks nokia nat Aug 02 08:10:11 anyway. IMO building a community controlled version of MeeGo seems to be the way to go Aug 02 08:10:23 and I'm not talking about forking Aug 02 08:10:38 timoph: +1 Aug 02 08:14:44 timoph: exactly, all but forking Aug 02 08:15:08 FWIW people... I think the wiki page has the main issues Aug 02 08:15:32 the current plan is to move the web php-app out Aug 02 08:15:44 but that doesn't IMHO touch the *stated* problem Aug 02 08:16:07 c.obs is the elephant in the room Aug 02 08:16:32 ACK Aug 02 08:17:04 and, for that matter, home projects on core OBS Aug 02 08:17:31 well they already have some restrictions in place there Aug 02 08:20:48 hey leinir Aug 02 08:21:27 So, been away for a long weekend and it seems somethings up in the land of meego Aug 02 08:21:38 can anyone summarize or point me to a url ? Aug 02 08:21:55 apps? Aug 02 08:21:59 slaine: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Apps/Problem_Statement Aug 02 08:22:45 sucks about apps.meego.com :-( Aug 02 08:22:49 yep Aug 02 08:23:04 timoph: thanks Aug 02 08:23:20 vgrade, arfoll Nice work on the MeeGo TV trimslice Aug 02 08:23:43 Hey lbt :) Aug 02 08:24:45 o/ Aug 02 08:29:48 JFTR: there are other roadblocks in the community meego story. Aug 02 08:30:16 one is artwork, it's another elephant in the room nobody wants to mention Aug 02 08:30:38 yep Aug 02 08:30:43 oh... that's something else I have 'in progress' Aug 02 08:30:46 all reference UX artwork is non-free Aug 02 08:31:13 and that's not restricted to the MeeGo(tm,r,...) logo Aug 02 08:31:31 some curvy line in a ux? can't use, it's for compliant devices only Aug 02 08:31:33 but dm8tbr that's kinda OK ... what's not OK is that the non-free reference is given special treatment Aug 02 08:32:20 take meego core and slap plasma active on top of it. problem solved :p Aug 02 08:32:55 well you can't even use the existing PSD file as a tool to design completely new UX elements Aug 02 08:32:56 you know, i actually wonder what license our N900 CE theme has Aug 02 08:33:22 so you'd need to reinvent tooling Aug 02 08:33:39 /move window 10 Aug 02 08:33:41 oh. it's that bad :/ Aug 02 08:33:46 that's ok for a $big-vendor Aug 02 08:34:45 but if we want to e.g. design a non-infringing meego-ux graphics set we need to start at zero Aug 02 08:35:21 hi guys Aug 02 08:35:48 community may not be part of the high level MeeGo business story, but it comes back full circle on lower levels. Aug 02 08:36:01 dm8tbr: feel like setting up a task force? count me in. Aug 02 08:36:42 I think moving the entirety of meego.com community away from LF is the sane medium term plan Aug 02 08:36:49 timoph: screw task force JFDI, LF would just stall the topic for half a year like they did with ForMeeGo Aug 02 08:37:01 *nod* Aug 02 08:37:33 MeeGo needs the community if they want to go anywhere, they just don't (want to) realize that Aug 02 08:37:46 dm8tbr: well "task force" as in get people working on it now :) Aug 02 08:38:00 anyway. I'm out for lunch. bbl Aug 02 08:38:12 it's only my opinion or LF are totally crazy? Aug 02 08:38:20 timoph: hyvää ruokahalua :) Aug 02 08:38:21 * RST38h reads Stskeeps' post about LF Aug 02 08:38:33 * RST38h suggests hosting Meego applications at maemo.org infrastructure Aug 02 08:39:10 Andy80: I wouldn't go that far. it's just business case high level thinking, meets reality. trainwreck, slwo motion. Aug 02 08:39:28 BTW, gentlemen, are you basically reimplementing PackRat again? "This service is a web application which indexes certain community vetted, OSI-approved-licensed applications built by individual community members at the C.OBS" <== this is PackRat Aug 02 08:39:33 no no no.... please be serious guys :) Aug 02 08:39:50 I don't like the term "Task Force", it sounds like something a committee would put together to get the problem shoved under the carpet Aug 02 08:39:50 if we would listen to them, no website would host any application! Aug 02 08:40:05 think to sourceforge, gitorious, github ecc.... Aug 02 08:40:09 I think moving the entirety of meego.com community away from LF is the sane medium term plan Aug 02 08:40:10 RST38h: apps does a bit more than that, there is a formal QA process like on maemo downloads Aug 02 08:40:10 are we crazy?! Aug 02 08:40:33 after almost 2 years of meego.com Aug 02 08:40:41 they realize they don't want to host any application?! Aug 02 08:40:45 Andy80: If I understand the US software patents situation correctly, hosting source code is no problem. Hosting binaries is Aug 02 08:40:48 bergie: So, it is extras.maemo.org? Why not do it at maemo.org then? Aug 02 08:41:00 bergie: read the problem statement carefully Aug 02 08:41:02 RST38h: because it is MeeGo :-) Aug 02 08:41:11 bergie: who cares what it is? Aug 02 08:41:40 omg O_o Aug 02 08:41:47 bergie: it is pretty consistent with what Maemo was/is, I doubt two letters make that much of a difference in principle Aug 02 08:41:54 so any app store could violate software patents! Aug 02 08:41:58 RST38h: also, the Apps service we've done for MeeGo is way ahead of the Maemo one... OBS instead of autobuilder, BOSS, proper review forms etc Aug 02 08:42:15 I really cannot belive that USA lawas are more stupid then italian one! Aug 02 08:42:16 bergie: Does not mean you can run both under the same domain though Aug 02 08:42:20 it's simply not possible :P Aug 02 08:42:24 s/can/cant Aug 02 08:42:35 RST38h: sure, but formeego.org is already approved and available, AFAIK Aug 02 08:42:39 slaine, cheers so are you getting one> Aug 02 08:43:16 bergie: correct, cost me more than half a year Aug 02 08:43:33 dm8tbr: ah, you have the domain? Cool Aug 02 08:43:49 bergie: yes I'm the 'Thomas' mentioned by lbt Aug 02 08:43:55 we could theoretically set up a nonprofit to own the domain etc, if we want to Aug 02 08:44:01 \o/ Aug 02 08:44:03 I'm also know as don quixote de la meego Aug 02 08:44:11 arfoll, Afraid not. Although it's greatly reduced at $175 (assuming I qualified via the MeeGo Device program) I simply can't justify the expense when I've a wife and 3 kids to feed and cloth (and school supplies to purchase) Aug 02 08:44:15 http://www.debian.org/reports/patent-faq Aug 02 08:44:22 bergie: and we would not have the same patents problems :) ? Aug 02 08:44:53 SFLC took a look at it for Debian, but LF obviously doesn't have time or resources to look at this. Aug 02 08:44:56 bergie: Dunno, I have come to believe that in order to make it a successful project, you need to stick with the original Maemo community and stay away from the official LF stuff Aug 02 08:45:24 Andy80: no silly software patents in Europe Aug 02 08:45:25 Andy80: part of the risk the LF face is that they are an attractive target for anti-OSS trolls Aug 02 08:45:43 bergie: They do not appear to be interested in a community at all Aug 02 08:46:15 I think the distro work happening on MeeGo is pretty good Aug 02 08:46:26 bergie, lbt: what about simply moving meego.com foundation/project to Europe? Aug 02 08:46:30 I just saw an interesting MeeGo deployment from a small company last week :-) Aug 02 08:46:33 bergie: Is it done by LF? Aug 02 08:46:44 Andy80: yes... http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Apps/Problem_Statement#Move_all_MeeGo_infrastructure_to_formeego.org_and_away_from_LF Aug 02 08:46:47 Andy80: LF can't just move :) Aug 02 08:47:05 LF should just drop MeeGo Aug 02 08:47:07 RST38h: nah, that work is Intel (and probably Nokia and other guys) Aug 02 08:47:16 they are not capable anymore to manage it Aug 02 08:47:21 BTW, can I add a .deb to the build.pub.meego.com repo? Aug 02 08:47:26 they're only ruining the project Aug 02 08:47:29 bergie: exactly Aug 02 08:48:03 in the worst case we just block some apps from being available in the US. On Maemo Downloads we already so some country blocking for export restrictions, AFAIK Aug 02 08:48:21 slaine, too bad - hopefully your kid will force you to get one ;-) Aug 02 08:48:52 RST38h: you can build for Harmattan there, yes Aug 02 08:49:02 arfoll, the eldest wants my n950 Aug 02 08:49:17 bergie: What if I have built elsewhere, can I put up a prebuilt deb file? Aug 02 08:49:48 unless grade can help out, I probably won't be in a position to get something sorted 'til october Aug 02 08:50:03 RST38h: lbt can probably answer that better, but my gut feel is "no" Aug 02 08:50:16 RST38h: i don't think so, that would be against the concept Aug 02 08:50:22 slaine, sounds like he's smart! maybe you can get one from your work - for research? Aug 02 08:50:32 * RST38h sighs, goes off to create his own repository elsewhere Aug 02 08:50:49 RST38h: what is the problem with building on OBS? Aug 02 08:50:55 RST38h: why do you think building on cobs is not what you want to do? Aug 02 08:51:05 question... which language is meego apps based on, for the nokia phone.. Aug 02 08:51:07 RST38h: No non-free. Aug 02 08:51:22 meivi: Qt/QML Aug 02 08:51:23 arfoll: already asked and idea was rejected Aug 02 08:51:28 dm8tbr: Cause I have open source and non open source packages Aug 02 08:51:33 that's why I started the do it my self approach Aug 02 08:51:39 we'll see what happens Aug 02 08:51:42 dm8tbr: Cause the current package will not build on OBS Aug 02 08:51:45 etc. Aug 02 08:51:50 RST38h: why ? Aug 02 08:52:02 lbt: depends. Aug 02 08:52:04 you can submit non-free to Ovi, I think Aug 02 08:52:09 is that similar to java? c? Aug 02 08:52:16 which depends? Aug 02 08:52:19 slaine, too bad :-(, next meego conf we all get given tegra2 devices? Aug 02 08:52:23 RST38h: Then you need to fix building? Aug 02 08:52:30 RST38h: if it doesn't build on cobs, file a bug Aug 02 08:52:41 RST38h: Aard is helping out here Aug 02 08:52:42 arfoll, lol, that'd be nice Aug 02 08:52:53 Anyway, the universal explanation for "why?" is "just because" Aug 02 08:55:20 unless vgrade can help out, that should have said. Damn spell checker. Aug 02 08:56:40 slaine, vgrade has spares? Aug 02 08:57:45 arfoll: don't know, it would be great if he did Aug 02 08:58:27 RST38h: I really hope we don't go back to the pre-Fremantle situation of people installing stuff from dozens of random repos Aug 02 08:58:37 well it would be cool to get someone else on the trimslice team :-) Aug 02 09:00:32 bergie: but I thought that's what RPM was all about, using rpmfind and installing whatever it spits out Aug 02 09:01:02 :-D Aug 02 09:01:32 the good thing about OBS is that even your "home projects" there will be built on common, maintained base Aug 02 09:10:56 bergie: We already have. Aug 02 09:11:16 bergie: Simply by not continuing to use maemo.org extras for Harmattan and Meego apps Aug 02 09:12:28 arfoll: I'ld like too Aug 02 09:13:00 I have a trimslice and wanted at the beginning to port Meego on it Aug 02 09:13:10 but vgrade is better than me ;) Aug 02 09:13:24 slaine: where are you located ? Aug 02 09:14:04 chouchoune: Dublin Aug 02 09:14:07 yourselft ? Aug 02 09:14:11 gah Aug 02 09:14:13 yourself Aug 02 09:14:16 France (Nice) Aug 02 09:14:17 * slaine gets coffee Aug 02 09:14:36 Yes, France is nice…. Aug 02 09:14:42 sorru Aug 02 09:14:49 oh dear, it's getting bad Aug 02 09:15:16 slaine: if you want a Trimslice quickly I could get one to you, but it should stay my property ;) Aug 02 09:15:22 I have 2 of them Aug 02 09:23:13 chouchone, vgrade has an image with meego on it, it's not too hard Aug 02 09:24:20 so that part is done ;-) Aug 02 09:25:15 if you feel like working http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Smart_TV_for_Trimslice#TODO_List Aug 02 09:27:46 arfoll: yes, I know it's nor hard, it's just that he did it quickly Aug 02 09:28:10 I've seen that TODO list, I'll try to get things done ;) Aug 02 09:29:09 chouchoune, yeah vgrade is fast... cool well keep us updated on what you plan on doing no need to duplicate work Aug 02 09:29:30 he beat me to finding my own hardfp xbmc builds where done... Aug 02 09:30:33 haha Aug 02 09:31:12 sure, I'll let you know Aug 02 09:32:43 arfoll, do you know if HDMI-CEC is possible?-) Aug 02 09:33:29 vvaltone, I don't know, I haven't even started to look at HDMI yet, been using DVI Aug 02 09:33:32 the new tv I got recently supports it and very convenient feature Aug 02 09:34:30 it allows you to use a single remote that passes the control through hdmi Aug 02 09:34:31 but dont most tvs have their own protocols? Aug 02 09:34:35 no, they're the same Aug 02 09:35:47 i thought sony CEC could only talk to sony stuff Aug 02 09:35:50 or well, I don't really know about the wire protocol, but Panasonic's one and ps3 work nicely Aug 02 10:19:22 X-Fade can you and dm8tbr talk DNS ? Aug 02 10:20:06 lbt: Sure. Aug 02 10:31:17 * lcuk has migraine will bbl Aug 02 10:57:38 * dm8tbr waves at X-Fade Aug 02 11:28:28 Hi Aug 02 11:28:59 Is "formeego" the real planned dns or just a codename? (because it is a little ugly as a name...) Aug 02 11:31:15 Greatgib: it is real. Aug 02 11:31:28 Greatgib: It is because of the meego trademark Aug 02 11:35:55 i have to go offline, migraine stomping on my thoughts, bbl Aug 02 11:36:53 X-Fade: I understood that, but don't understand why nothing more sexy was found like meegoapps or 4meego or appformeego, meegomunity,... Aug 02 11:38:27 Greatgib: Because that touches the trademark. Aug 02 11:38:44 Greatgib: You can always say for meego, but not meegoxxxx Aug 02 11:44:08 X-Fade: but the linux fondation could allow to use they trademark without implying that they are responsible regarding patent issues and things like that no? Aug 02 11:45:45 Greatgib: Aparently not. Aug 02 11:47:32 This is strange. Aug 02 11:48:23 X-Fade: is there some list of what is available on the Harmattan cobs target ? :) Aug 02 11:49:12 looks like that debhelper and cdbs are both available but too old to build unmodified sid packages... Aug 02 11:50:00 M4rtinK2: Yeah, the obs just has an imported sdk. Nothing I can do about that. Aug 02 11:50:24 X-Fade: ah, ok :) Aug 02 11:50:42 M4rtinK2: You should see the same in scratchbox. Aug 02 11:53:37 X-Fade: also, any idea why quite a few package self tests fail ? like: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=pixman&project=home%3AMartinK%3Aharmattan&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard Aug 02 11:54:28 I think I remember quite a few Fremantle packages having tests disabled because of similar errors Aug 02 11:56:40 M4rtinK2: Might be a qemu bug. Aug 02 11:57:32 ok, I'll try to disable the tests to see if it helps :) Aug 02 12:15:36 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-14370721 Aug 02 12:22:26 timoph, light sabre construction school. where is the best place for learning about library packaging for .spec files and stuff? Aug 02 12:22:39 start with yaml and go from there Aug 02 12:24:13 Stskeeps, documentation/tutorials? Aug 02 12:24:32 the ones around meego I found were mostly for a trivial qt app Aug 02 12:24:41 look up existing packages Aug 02 12:24:45 not more indepth library needing -devel and potentially dbg builds Aug 02 12:25:37 * lcuk goes hunting Aug 02 12:25:42 http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.0/Packaging/Tutorial Aug 02 12:25:52 rest can be picked up as example from other .yaml files Aug 02 12:26:38 the same should be used for projects currently aiming at harmattan I gather Aug 02 12:27:00 since I notice a lot of the projects there are merely reusing their debian packaging Aug 02 12:27:09 and not having meego repository enabled Aug 02 12:29:44 yeah. The fact that most people don't make their stuff available for other targets than harmattan troubles me Aug 02 12:30:40 well. I guess I'm even with them since I mostly build stuff only for meego (CE) Aug 02 12:30:48 timoph, does Components work on vanilla MeeGo? Aug 02 12:30:53 timoph, it is a metter of simplicity and understanding Aug 02 12:31:01 GeneralAntilles: not yet Aug 02 12:31:10 Well, then, mystery solved. . . . Aug 02 12:31:12 GeneralAntilles: CE should have them in the next build Aug 02 12:31:28 if yaml can generate both hmt.debian and rpm.spec then we should be trying to push it Aug 02 12:36:32 Frankly I think the software patent argument is bullshit. Aug 02 12:36:51 after the nortel buyout i think there's reason to be cautious Aug 02 12:36:52 General: It does not matter Aug 02 12:37:15 General: What DOES matter is that Linux Foundation is not interested in individual contributors to Meego Aug 02 12:37:23 Clearly Aug 02 12:37:28 But we've known THAT for a while. Aug 02 12:37:58 what is WITH the random word capitalisation? :P Aug 02 12:38:06 Upstream only is fine. If upstream cares about mobile spaces, and will accept patches. Aug 02 12:38:11 General: But this means that it is best to dsitance oneself from LF and its services as far as possible Aug 02 12:38:14 lcuk, it's a substitute for italics. Aug 02 12:38:16 :) Aug 02 12:38:32 as I say : No idea how the (currently favoured) solution solves the stated problem. Makes one wonder if the problem to be solved is openly stated. Aug 02 12:38:35 General: I.e. separate forum, separate repositories, separate build system etc Aug 02 12:39:19 General: In fact, I would do this on the maemo.org infrastructure Aug 02 12:40:28 IMHO more sensible is to have the whole project (core OBS too) under another name and allow LF to have a clear role as a the trademark and compliance owner for MeeGo Aug 02 12:41:21 lbt: i.e. ignore LF, essentially? Aug 02 12:41:26 yes Aug 02 12:41:30 and provide releases to them once in a while? Aug 02 12:41:31 :P Aug 02 12:41:36 ignore.... sideline Aug 02 12:41:41 Stskeeps: No Aug 02 12:41:42 and yes, release to them Aug 02 12:41:48 Stskeeps: Release to the world. Aug 02 12:41:59 If they want the release then, they can take it, or not Aug 02 12:42:18 RST38h: the project's raison d'etre is to release code to MeeGo ... Aug 02 12:42:23 I support that Aug 02 12:42:28 big time Aug 02 12:42:48 lbt: Well, it looks like the Meego official rights holder is not interested Aug 02 12:43:01 lbt, which specific project - apps. ? Aug 02 12:43:04 you know... to some extent... they should not be Aug 02 12:43:18 MeeGo is for vendors, not oss community Aug 02 12:43:31 lbt: So, I do not think making advances toward them is the right thing to do, especially considering that any misstep may trigger their lawyers into actions Aug 02 12:43:31 we should be providing grass-roots support too of course Aug 02 12:43:53 you mean LF ? Aug 02 12:43:59 yes Aug 02 12:44:39 hi everyone :) Aug 02 12:44:39 mmm they're appearing somewhat rude and lazy IMHO ... but I dont know *why*. They're not being deliberately difficult Aug 02 12:44:41 Problem with LF is that is basically too small to do much more than hold a trademark. Aug 02 12:44:49 X-Fade: absolutely Aug 02 12:45:09 They don't even have one person working on MeeGo full time, right? Aug 02 12:45:13 lbt: because they do not care. because youy are a nuisance to them Aug 02 12:45:40 i have fedora 15 on my netbook, how can i install meego? Aug 02 12:46:02 RST38h: mmm ... not "me" .... "we" Aug 02 12:46:17 lbt: Not me, I am just watching the DRAMAH =) Aug 02 12:46:57 lbt: But basically, LF is a bunch of legal busybodies living off corporate donations to their non-profit Aug 02 12:47:28 no body can help me? :( Aug 02 12:47:55 Vampir3: 1) Remove Fedora 2) Install Meego Aug 02 12:48:14 Well, what advantage does the project really get out of LF? Aug 02 12:48:18 Marketing for Intel? Aug 02 12:48:22 (but make sure your hardware is supported first, has to have SSSE3 instruction set and preferably no PowerVR) Aug 02 12:48:22 Vampir3, https://meego.com/downloads Aug 02 12:48:27 So far they mostly seem to be providing roadblocks. Aug 02 12:48:30 General: Legal endorsement Aug 02 12:48:31 get meego onto a usb stick Aug 02 12:48:33 try it first Aug 02 12:48:40 if happy, install Aug 02 12:48:42 :) Aug 02 12:48:46 General: Offloading the legal responsibility from Intel/Nokia Aug 02 12:48:48 GeneralAntilles: vendor neutral ground, technically Aug 02 12:49:04 RST38h, AMD! ;-P Aug 02 12:49:09 General: I.e. when Meego dies, it will be due to LF, not due to Nokia or Intel Aug 02 12:49:28 lcul: tnx dude, but one more question, can i have meego and fedora together? Aug 02 12:49:51 Vampir3, perhaps, but that is a question for later Aug 02 12:50:01 ensure meego works happily on your hardware and does what you want Aug 02 12:50:06 then ask about dualbooting etc Aug 02 12:50:11 * lcuk recalls somewhere it is Aug 02 12:50:16 Where is qt4 git by the way? Aug 02 12:50:49 * RST38h is tired of seeking help from eager idiots and going to check what the code is actually doing Aug 02 12:51:12 lcuk: tnx alot dude :) Aug 02 12:51:19 ah found it Aug 02 12:51:45 RST38h, link then, and would your gained knowledge allow you to become an eager idiot also? Aug 02 12:52:23 lcuk: No, it would just make me more sad. Aug 02 12:52:31 lcuk: as it should, actually Aug 02 12:52:37 http://qt.gitorious.org/ Aug 02 12:55:45 Mghm, no Harmattan patches Aug 02 12:55:57 not looking hard enough then Aug 02 12:56:52 Tried searching even, but no doughnut. Is there some special git with the harmattan version? Aug 02 12:58:37 RST38h: what would you like to find? Aug 02 12:58:49 Ans5i: QMainWindow source code Aug 02 13:03:23 RST38h: that should be there, but i think that meegotouch doesn't really use it anyway. http://apidocs.meego.com/git-tip/ Aug 02 13:03:43 Ans5i: That is not what I am trying to find. Aug 02 13:03:49 that git tip seems to be quite old. Aug 02 13:04:08 Actually, http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/q/qt4-x11/ Aug 02 13:06:19 yep Aug 02 13:10:19 * lcuk ponders Aug 02 13:23:11 morn n8willis Aug 02 13:23:25 morning! Aug 02 13:23:49 * n8willis is faking awakeness Aug 02 13:28:28 How interesting...There is exactly ONE reference to harmattan in latest Qt source code Aug 02 13:28:36 in QNetworkAccessManager Aug 02 13:29:06 Aha, "Meego" brings 23 files Aug 02 13:31:17 Pretty much limited to dloading meegotouch stuff in QApplication constructor Aug 02 13:36:36 ....and here is our suspect: http://pastebin.com/43hWWLUh Aug 02 13:38:39 moo vasvlad Aug 02 13:38:55 * RST38h is closing up on the evil navigation bar thingie Aug 02 13:42:29 Let us see if QObject offers any introspection... Aug 02 13:43:19 n8willis: hey bro! fancy seeing you here Aug 02 13:43:34 zup? Aug 02 13:44:10 you know... gonna be 108 today Aug 02 13:44:11 n8willis: almost ready for the #n950club I see Aug 02 13:44:32 slaine, yeah, it took some doin' .... painful process Aug 02 13:45:13 n8willis: slaine: Do they have initiation rites? Aug 02 13:45:26 still I hope to have somethign in hand for LinuxCon Aug 02 13:45:47 gabrbedd, Hazing ain't dead Aug 02 13:46:29 gabrbedd: my consisted of getting wasted on cough medicine and Jolt cola, while dancing to early 80's american hardcore punk Aug 02 13:46:36 not really Aug 02 13:46:46 * gabrbedd thinks of the hacking+drinking contest in "The Social Network" Aug 02 13:46:57 * slaine hasn't seen it Aug 02 13:47:04 slaine: haha :-) Aug 02 13:47:10 lol Aug 02 13:47:23 nelson has a lot to answer for Aug 02 13:47:38 * n8willis only watches movies about vampires Aug 02 13:48:01 oh, reminds me, latest trueblood episode should be available Aug 02 13:48:04 twilight? Aug 02 13:48:08 n8willis: maybe that could be the sequel for The Social Network. Aug 02 13:48:45 gabrbedd, it'd certainly have a lot of pale, nocturnal people Aug 02 13:48:59 Instead of being "vampire vegetarians", they still eat people... but only do "ethical hacking" Aug 02 13:49:15 groan Aug 02 13:49:23 and not in the biblical sense Aug 02 14:14:28 lbt, so I just use the .tar.gz I normally use for maemo autobuilder Aug 02 14:14:33 and add an extra .spec file? Aug 02 14:24:55 in BuildRequires should I also specify gcc and stuff? Aug 02 14:25:50 no Aug 02 14:31:27 anyone got any ideas why this is failing? https://build.pub.meego.com/package/rawlog?arch=i586&package=libomxil-bellagio&project=home%3Aarfoll%3Axbmc-testing&repository=DE_Trunk Aug 02 14:31:44 it works on my local machine but I don't understand the error it's giving me on OBS Aug 02 14:32:02 make yourself happier and make -j1 Aug 02 14:32:10 if it doesn't happen there, you've messed up dependancies somewhere Aug 02 14:32:24 ie, a race condition Aug 02 14:32:47 uhm i'll check its not a race Aug 02 14:33:31 wow nice instincts Stskeeps Aug 02 14:34:01 question is do I fix the makefile.... or do I just make -j1 in the spec.... Aug 02 14:34:06 fix the makefile ideally Aug 02 14:34:14 less build power used Aug 02 14:35:24 it's usually something about demos not waiting for src etc Aug 02 14:36:05 i'll have a look at it when i can, luckly its a tiny pkg. Aug 02 14:36:41 cheers for the help though, it had me confused like hell last night Aug 02 14:39:58 arfoll: looks like your installation path (DESTDIR?) is empty, and since it resolves to "", rpmbuild ends up trying to copy files directly into the build worker root Aug 02 14:42:57 Bostik, yeah thats the new problem, because I went too fast and didn't use the make install macro ;-) Aug 02 14:44:02 heh Aug 02 14:44:12 that happens :) Aug 02 14:44:55 it's been a busy day... Aug 02 15:14:55 omg obs actually got as far as compiling stuff Aug 02 15:15:23 lcuk: \o/ Aug 02 15:15:49 * timoph hasn't succeeded in building anything for harmattan target yet Aug 02 15:16:10 timoph, from maemo packages it should be simpler Aug 02 15:16:11 maybe that's a hint that I should stick with rpms :) Aug 02 15:16:20 sometimes as simple as moving the .desktop file Aug 02 15:16:31 from /usr/share/applications/hildon to /usr/share/applications Aug 02 15:16:52 * lcuk considers this a postinst step perhaps or just duplicate the entries hmm Aug 02 15:17:01 yep. I've done that for some package I pulled from maemo and rpm packaged them Aug 02 15:20:21 timoph, it seems my package has extra file which can be removed Aug 02 15:20:25 but not sure how to do it Aug 02 15:20:27 from spec Aug 02 15:20:56 dirty way would be to rm it in the %install section Aug 02 15:22:30 or you can do a patch Aug 02 15:22:41 or %exclude Aug 02 15:23:14 * timoph learned something new Aug 02 15:24:01 yay Aug 02 15:24:02 Stskeeps: %exclude goes into %files section? Aug 02 15:24:06 right, afaik Aug 02 15:31:19 i just removed the files from the .tar..gz and makefile Aug 02 15:31:34 they only really made sense directly in the n8x0 maemo build Aug 02 15:35:28 what is ldconfig Aug 02 15:35:29 ? Aug 02 15:36:12 /sbin/ldconfig - configure dynamic linker run time bindings Aug 02 15:36:32 ldconfig(8) man page :) Aug 02 15:38:22 yes timoph, however I have never used it for liqbase Aug 02 15:38:52 it is the thing that creates symlink between liq.so and lib.so.1 I gather? Aug 02 15:40:42 lcuk: No... it's like a pre-compiled index of .so files. Aug 02 15:41:28 lcuk: After you add .so files in /usr/lib and /usr/local/lib, the dynamic linker won't find them until you've run ldconfig to update the index. Aug 02 15:41:40 ah Aug 02 15:41:42 thanks Aug 02 15:41:51 lcuk: However, if you use LD_LIBRARY_PATH, it searches that before going to the index. Aug 02 15:41:59 so what creates the symlink between lib.so and lib.so.1 Aug 02 15:42:36 lcuk: you mean... like libliq.so and libliq.so.1 ?? Aug 02 15:42:41 (for example) Aug 02 15:42:48 yes Aug 02 15:43:00 in my manual instructions I do an "ln -s..." Aug 02 15:43:03 IIRC, each application is responsible for doing it. Aug 02 15:43:03 Got event BUILD_SUCCESS from home:lcuk Aug 02 15:43:03 Looking to handle BUILD_SUCCESS in home:lcuk Aug 02 15:43:18 Some applications use libtool, and it possibly auto-does-that. Aug 02 15:44:00 lcuk: Only you can set the SOVERSION, because that affects the ABI of your library. Aug 02 15:45:12 gabrbedd, thanks, I have just added a manual step in the post for now Aug 02 16:07:51 well libliqbase and libliqbase-devel can install, nice. Aug 02 16:10:07 timoph, that be the first part of lightsabre school done \o Aug 02 16:26:47 lcuk: Now that I think of it... usually libfoo.so gets shipped in the devel package, and libfoo.so.1 gets shipped in the user binary. Aug 02 16:28:54 gabrbedd, cool, I will see how it works for now, obs appears to have accepted it through Aug 02 16:29:57 it was easier than expected to make it build in obs Aug 02 16:30:05 ldconfig also does links Aug 02 16:30:14 libfoo.so.1 -> libfoo.so.1.latest Aug 02 16:30:26 just grab the .tar.gz I would normally upload to maemo, quick bit of tinkering and managed a build Aug 02 16:30:28 thanks javispedro Aug 02 16:30:49 it does not do libfoo.so -> libfoo.so.anything though Aug 02 16:31:40 mostly because that last link is the one that decides which library you link with when doing -lfoo, so user (or package manager) chooses where that link should point to. Aug 02 16:35:19 oh balls Aug 02 16:35:34 liqbook does not link correctly, guessing it is related to the libliqbase dependency Aug 02 16:35:46 (but it happily found the /includes Aug 02 16:47:39 i apoligise in advance but https://build.pub.meego.com/package/rawlog?arch=i586&package=libomxil-bellagio&project=home%3Aarfoll%3Axbmc-testing&repository=MeeGo_1.0_Core_standard and http://pastebin.com/bQQMjUwh Aug 02 16:48:08 it complains it can't get the doc files when i put them in the yaml, but when i dont it says it cant find them Aug 02 16:48:45 * arfoll is so confused today Aug 02 16:48:48 ew meego 1.0 Aug 02 16:48:49 sec Aug 02 16:49:17 lol its just for the example, fails the same everywhere Aug 02 16:49:41 was it the race condition btw? Aug 02 16:51:28 Stskeeps, yeah i do a make -j1 now and it fixed the compilation issues Aug 02 16:51:30 can you remove the documentation mentions? Aug 02 16:51:38 i want to see the old error Aug 02 16:51:45 Stskeeps, the older error is in the pastebin Aug 02 16:54:42 .. %doc ? Aug 02 16:55:26 Stskeeps, i had %doc before, i also was using docdir instead, but didnt change anything Aug 02 16:55:54 i don't immediately see it Aug 02 16:56:03 maybe a utf-8 character sneaking in or something? Aug 02 16:56:51 or -doc has to be in -doc package Aug 02 16:56:58 Stskeeps, looks all ascii Aug 02 16:57:04 ok, no clue then Aug 02 16:57:13 stupid package Aug 02 17:03:37 arfoll: did you get PA working? Aug 02 17:03:43 or through alsa Aug 02 17:04:34 Stskeeps, alsa, havent tried using that patch yet Aug 02 17:04:46 ok Aug 02 17:06:46 damnit i missed the shop closing time. no food for brendan again.... Aug 02 17:12:17 * SpeedEvil looks at his cupboards full of food just in case. Aug 02 17:22:08 lots of frogs and rabbits here, too stupid to run away. Need frog recipes. Aug 02 17:32:21 * rcg1 as an old frogger player breaks out in tears: leave the frogs alive... Aug 02 17:32:25 ;P Aug 02 17:32:43 qgil, congrats on getting far enough to need to file bugs! Aug 02 17:33:08 hopefully shall be cured or worked around reasonably quickly Aug 02 17:33:55 lcuk: thanks :) well, I worked around it converting svg to png - works for a single device but not optimal if now we want to have e.g. Miniature in a tablet Aug 02 17:34:15 lcuk: but well, good enough for a first release targeting handset Aug 02 17:36:03 nice qgil, do you hope to also include it on the ovi store once it works well? Aug 02 17:36:15 so that n8etc users could also benefit and play Aug 02 17:36:15 lcuk: of course Aug 02 17:36:18 \o/ Aug 02 17:36:30 ah well, a Symbian port is another thing Aug 02 17:37:00 We are staying within Qt but we haven't tried to deploy to a Symbian device yet Aug 02 17:37:42 reasonable enough Aug 02 17:38:10 I have seen many projects recently coming from symbian and being tweaked to run happily on n950 Aug 02 17:38:25 mja's game works better on the n9 than on his n8 Aug 02 17:39:15 we'll see Aug 02 17:39:17 qgil: ah, you're here, was about to ask if you had a copy of one of the svgs - since they're not on gitorious Aug 02 17:40:13 w00t_: I sent you the URL, just go to e.g. https://gitorious.org/miniature/miniature/blobs/master/data/pieces/black/bishop.svg a click on "Raw blob data" Aug 02 17:40:38 ah, thanks.. multitasking a bit atm due to a small rl crisis so i might have missed it Aug 02 17:41:49 w00t_: this is why I added the URL also at https://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-20698 ;) Aug 02 17:43:23 * lcuk slides w00t_ a coffee Aug 02 17:44:09 * w00t_ loves that we all have mobile phones - but firmly wishes people would answer them in times of need :P Aug 02 17:44:20 * javispedro eventually switched from QtSvg to rsvg as SVG renderer on his icon webapp... Aug 02 17:44:37 I was surprised with the sad state of svg rasterizers everywhere. Aug 02 17:44:48 the Qt one is not bad but was also heavily incomplete Aug 02 17:45:06 javispedro: the svg standard is absolutely huge though, so it's not really unsurprising Aug 02 17:45:38 javispedro: those svg files I'm using render perfectly well when just calling the Image file - the problem is in GridView, ListModel or both Aug 02 17:45:53 and yeah, there's nothing wrong with that svg Aug 02 17:46:07 ah, so then it's probably an easy bug :) Aug 02 17:46:22 i might look around a bit more, but i'm digging into new territory as i've not looked at declarative's code a great deal Aug 02 17:47:57 hey, i found out how to make the HDMI output work on the exoPC for those people that are reporting errors Aug 02 17:48:06 is there a place i can post the follow up information? Aug 02 17:48:54 w00t_: no worries, I hope someone paid to make GridView work will look at it ;) Aug 02 17:51:44 gandhijee_: i don't know, but do tell us when you do :) Aug 02 17:52:42 blauzahl: if you know where i can post it please let me know! ive seen a couple people with the problem, but no ones posted the soluton yet Aug 02 17:52:46 *solution Aug 02 17:59:09 qgil, you've been developing more lately. Aug 02 17:59:19 are you tasked with helping release content for harmattan? Aug 02 18:11:26 qgil: would love to see a few symbian media apps on n950 : http://nokia-news.com/cnn-launches-international-news-app-for-nokia-symbian3-devices-on-ovi-store/ and this one needs porting to symbian/n9/n950: http://www.mobiletopsoft.com/blog/ios/hbo-go-application-surpasses-1-million-downloads/ Aug 02 18:12:50 HBO Go works nice in the MeeGo 1.2 tablet (exopc) now that i've installed flash 11 and upgraded to much later 1.2.0.90 Aug 02 18:14:03 although i find it annoying that each provider needs to use their own GUI and player, instead of putting it on some kind of secured media feed Aug 02 18:14:12 npm where did the later flash build come from? Aug 02 18:14:20 adobe Aug 02 18:14:34 http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer11.html Aug 02 18:15:00 it requires moving some stuff around from the distributed 32 bit deb Aug 02 18:15:59 but that's all in a days work :-)... Aug 02 18:16:01 dare I ask after hearing about apps: can it be put onto obs with a patch? Aug 02 18:16:12 hell no, that would be crazy Aug 02 18:16:18 antman8969: you mean that I have *started* developing lately ;) Aug 02 18:16:38 what would make sense would be to have a script that downloads it from adobe and runs the transformations on each persons workstation Aug 02 18:17:11 antman8969: I'm doing this as personal training, to learn about Qt Quick - and for fun Aug 02 18:17:23 ++ for fun Aug 02 18:17:42 antman8969: helping to get a chess mobile app based on Qt for MeeGo & etc is the main incentive Aug 02 18:17:49 qgil, I often still ponder voice driven chess Aug 02 18:17:59 for in car mental challenges! Aug 02 18:18:17 qgil: it would be terrible just having the n950 just sitting there (nature abhors an empty repository) Aug 02 18:19:14 qgil: I'm definitely not having my device sitting there, but at some point reporting user bugs was less fun (since things are getting pretty good) and this is why I decided to open finally the hood,.. Aug 02 18:19:32 * qgil seems to be in a dialog with himself ;) Aug 02 18:19:58 lcuk: yeah another thing to distract driver attention Aug 02 18:20:25 berndhs, was tongue in cheek, but the idea of voice control did come up at the dublin conf Aug 02 18:20:51 was in part related to mikhas over the shoulder of person playing chess giving hints Aug 02 18:21:25 qgil: yeah, bug reporting is very un-fun... excellent that you are out there with the dev-troops :-)... very tasty dogfood here i must confess.... Aug 02 18:21:42 there used to be a voice interface for bank PIDs, i wonder who's idea that was Aug 02 18:22:03 "please say your password louder" Aug 02 18:22:05 PID? Aug 02 18:22:25 (I actually find bug reporting fun - even more if as an incentive you get a device when the OS is far from ready and just a few real users are hitting its edges) Aug 02 18:22:35 Personal Identification number Aug 02 18:24:10 qgil: my converted qtzibit demo app Bugzibit might make bug tracking more interesting: http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/bugzhibit-timeline.png Aug 02 18:24:49 http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/bugxhibit.png --> searching for "harmattan" on BMC Aug 02 18:25:10 but i don't know about fun :-) Aug 02 18:25:30 npm, that looks reasonable Aug 02 18:25:38 even more so because I am assigned to bug 13084 Aug 02 18:25:41 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13084 maj, Medium, ---, liquid, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink Aug 02 18:25:48 npm: well done, but I think I'm done with bug festivals for now - as it took me a year to recover from the Fremantle bug festival ;) Aug 02 18:25:51 hopefully my extra practice I am trying to do around obs will help Aug 02 18:26:50 well that's only one of 20 or so apps ... bugzibit will be in next version of http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qtzibit_0_0_3_armel.deb Aug 02 18:40:57 which part of the system does the linker convert a library "-l[library]" into actual .so Aug 02 18:41:04 is it the ldconfig thing from earlier? Aug 02 19:10:21 chouchoune: i also needed to test how meeting bot works with foreign languages anyway ;) Aug 02 19:11:11 haha Aug 02 19:11:16 you see then ;) Aug 02 19:41:05 hey, i am using a USB wifi adapter because the PCIe one doesn't work in meego. how do i get my USB wifi dongle to automatically connect at start up Aug 02 19:41:14 so i don't have to turn on the wifi throught the panel Aug 02 19:44:02 gandhijee_: you have to at least once use the UI to connect to an access point Aug 02 19:44:10 gandhijee_: after that it will do it automatically Aug 02 19:44:20 auke: thats the issue, when i reboot it won Aug 02 19:44:28 t automaically reconnect to the AP Aug 02 19:44:39 i have to go through the UI and turn WiFI back on Aug 02 19:44:43 then it will connect Aug 02 19:44:56 your hardware might turn off the device at boot Aug 02 19:45:24 auke: nope i have another meego netbook with the exact same setup Aug 02 19:45:29 does the alt-fn keycombo work to turn it on? Aug 02 19:45:31 and it starts up fine at boot Aug 02 19:45:38 no, its a USB dongle - external to the machien Aug 02 19:45:53 well, it works for me, usb dongle too Aug 02 19:46:00 automatically reconnects just fine Aug 02 19:46:14 shrug, sorry Aug 02 20:04:41 awesome seeing #meego-meeting in French tonight Aug 02 20:08:11 Ev'ning, all Aug 02 20:08:30 evening Aug 02 20:08:42 hi Jaffa, sunbaked? Aug 02 20:08:59 lcuk: Not too bad :) Aug 02 20:09:13 good good Aug 02 20:09:17 lcuk: Was damned hot in a Parisian park yesterday Aug 02 20:09:42 it has been warm and humid over here too Aug 02 20:10:24 So I hear. Thundery downpours for the last leg of our journey up the M1 or M40 tomorrow Aug 02 20:10:32 Jaffa, if you want extra French, the #meego-meeting is discussing French related topics Aug 02 20:10:42 Oh, bon Aug 02 20:11:03 J'adore parles en francais, mais je ne suis pas tres bien Aug 02 20:13:27 Jaffa, good trip? Aug 02 20:13:55 Stskeeps: problem with charset ;) Aug 02 20:14:35 Stskeeps: oh no, it's OK for the HTML version Aug 02 20:14:44 but not the .txt version Aug 02 20:14:46 GAN900: Aye, looking forward to getting back to a real computer Aug 02 20:14:55 Jaffa, n950? Aug 02 20:15:45 lcuk: 'sok, but no Twitter client and not got my favourite bookmarks. Terminal's a bit limited too (e.g. lack of c&p) Aug 02 20:18:44 * Jaffa needs to send a few emails tomorrow, following up things from before holiday (and looking over lbt's email and wiki pages in more detail) Aug 02 20:19:15 :) Aug 02 20:37:25 Stskeeps, found the error, the makefil is writing the doc to /home! crazy rubbish Aug 02 20:41:47 arfoll: scary Aug 02 21:06:49 * CosmoHill grumbles about his hayfever pills Aug 02 21:07:18 Anyone know why rpcbind and friends won't start on boot for me? Aug 02 21:07:44 in meego 1.2 Aug 02 21:07:48 are the services disabled or set not to start on boot? Aug 02 21:08:54 jedix: NFS isn't exactly working in meego Aug 02 21:09:00 not a FEA#, afaik Aug 02 21:19:09 jedix: Aard has nfs on c.obs IIRC Aug 02 21:20:58 meego's kernel doesn't enable nfs Aug 02 21:27:37 * lbt goes looking for the registry setting... :) Aug 02 21:28:41 hmm he's not built a kernel on c.obs yet either.... Aug 02 22:47:58 evening Aug 02 23:14:18 hello vgrade Aug 03 00:07:32 morning Aug 03 00:17:12 Termana is here, time for dinner **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 03 02:59:57 2011