**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 21 02:59:57 2011 Aug 21 04:25:26 vgrade: oh yes, you did just get called out by a stranger. :p I hear you're working on Tegra2 and MeeGo? Would it ever get to the point that any Tegra2 device could run MeeGo? :) Aug 21 04:26:06 or anyone else who's worked on tegra2 with meego? :) Aug 21 04:26:41 i figure if the drivers are there, it's just a question of getting an open bootloader, and maybe getting drivers for the cellular component? can't i recycle the drivers used by android? Aug 21 06:41:39 How differnt is Meego Manhatten from meego vanial ? And will i be able to run it later on it ? Aug 21 06:41:58 meego vanilla should be able to run on n950 and hopefully n9 Aug 21 06:42:02 also, Harmattan. Aug 21 06:42:03 :P Aug 21 06:42:08 ow sorry :) Aug 21 06:42:28 Stskeeps: you had doubt over both phones ... Aug 21 06:42:36 Stskeeps: so what WILL it run on ? :p Aug 21 06:44:41 And then comes the hard part: figuring out if the phone can do what i want it to do (out of the box without meego vanilla, as this still had day-to-day-bugs) Aug 21 06:55:27 Qantourisc: Which phone? Aug 21 06:55:43 robbiethe1st: that's to be decided Aug 21 06:55:44 he meant 'harmattan' presumably Aug 21 06:56:02 dm8tbr: and yes Aug 21 06:57:49 Well, if you're looking at the N9, it's going to take quite a while to get all thwe apps needed to come up to the same level of usability as, say, the N900 Aug 21 06:59:54 Also, guys.. I just got my N950. Where's the 'app manager'? Aug 21 07:00:02 swipe Aug 21 07:00:11 robbiethe1st: the apps i'm probably looking for is SSH, maybe irc ?, imap, "contact's" 'STILL didn't figure out how to sync contacts) and webcaldav Aug 21 07:00:24 robbiethe1st: left/right right/left from outside the screen border Aug 21 07:01:00 or did you mean the one for (un)installing? it's in settings Aug 21 07:01:33 No, I mean... to install stuff like root and stuff. I'm coming from the N900 and don't exactly have a guide or anything here Aug 21 07:02:18 first enable dev mode Aug 21 07:02:32 via flasher or...? Aug 21 07:02:34 robbiethe1st: should we move this to #harmattan? :) Aug 21 07:03:11 Oh... That's the channel for that? Ok Aug 21 07:03:32 yeah, more on topic there as we're getting into nitty gritty Aug 21 07:03:48 Fair enough Aug 21 07:05:39 can someone explain to me the obsession people have with adding string timestamps to their binaries? Aug 21 07:06:12 Stskeeps: wish i knew :/ Aug 21 07:09:00 Stskeeps: you mean like 'this binary built on $date'? I sort of see why, but I also know it screws up OBS rebuild logic Aug 21 07:09:32 proper version strings (or just checkout hash or whatever) would likely make more sense Aug 21 07:12:37 yes Aug 21 07:12:48 * Stskeeps is working to reduce churn so Aug 21 07:14:46 *nod* thought so Aug 21 07:17:19 they'd probably be useful to submit back to meego anyway Aug 21 07:17:39 taking the Mer approach, ie, doing code to show my points and improve the upstream, ie, M**** Reconstructed) Aug 21 07:36:31 "#MeeGo first boot on #STEricsson #Igloo #SnowBall! Now that I have basic userspace up time to figure out framebuffer and get UX up!" http://twitter.com/#!/tbr23/status/105180419577745408 Aug 21 08:15:25 Ahh MeeGo, I'm happier now :) Aug 21 08:20:33 :) Aug 21 08:21:18 Stskeeps: we all feel that way, and we know it. Aug 21 08:22:50 How do we suppose this Nokia / Microsoft stuff will affect MeeGo, and more importantly, QT? Aug 21 08:23:30 I imagine that MeeGo will have NO problem, because it's protected enough by Intel, but QT? doesn't bode well. Aug 21 08:33:10 IanWizard-Cloud: i doubt it'll affect things, qt is still central Aug 21 08:51:06 morn wazd Aug 21 09:10:58 Stskeeps: timestamps in binaries ... these people aren't used to working package managers Aug 21 09:11:29 lbt: so far i've removed churn causing things in perl and rpm Aug 21 09:11:33 that should speed things up immensely Aug 21 09:11:59 cool - I look forward to a short blog post :) Aug 21 09:12:48 that said, there are some things that are wtf in current meego tree.. dbus + x11 is a requirement for base ports Aug 21 09:13:00 because of a silly non-seperation of tools in dbus and systemd Aug 21 09:13:09 so i plan to propose patches for that and churn issues Aug 21 09:13:24 Stskeeps++ Aug 21 09:13:36 well, are you using the agile browser? Aug 21 09:13:48 lbt: no, i just observed it while reading build logs Aug 21 09:13:53 i am using agile browser normally Aug 21 09:14:08 but i don't have a source dependancy generator Aug 21 09:14:13 (i really miss that) Aug 21 09:14:33 hmm Aug 21 09:14:45 ie, give me a list of source dependancies from a OBS project Aug 21 09:15:05 hi everyone Aug 21 09:15:06 source deps? Aug 21 09:15:10 yeah Aug 21 09:15:10 vs build-deps? Aug 21 09:15:14 i mean build-deps Aug 21 09:15:24 and osc bdep ? Aug 21 09:15:30 we have that? Aug 21 09:15:39 so what am I missing? Aug 21 09:15:55 (i don't have 'osc bdep', i think) Aug 21 09:15:57 oh Aug 21 09:16:02 that was question Aug 21 09:16:05 yes, we have that Aug 21 09:16:10 oh, where? Aug 21 09:16:12 not in my osc :) Aug 21 09:16:51 osc dependson --help Aug 21 09:17:23 bdep is the xml that's provided to give the chroot package list Aug 21 09:17:36 ah cute Aug 21 09:17:46 that'll come in handy Aug 21 09:18:15 coffee Aug 21 09:18:19 if it could output agile browser stuff too, that'd be nice Aug 21 09:28:00 Mikko Ylinen (?) was asking about getting some AB and pkgDB stuff sorted out Aug 21 09:28:29 right Aug 21 09:28:45 it would be useful for you and Sage to ask Ramez for MINT to support this kind of thing as part of managing the CE codebase Aug 21 09:29:57 AB format is really easy Aug 21 09:30:05 http://pastie.org/2405839 Aug 21 09:30:18 @ for attributes, / for edge Aug 21 09:30:20 *nod* Aug 21 09:30:50 what we/they need to do is supplement it with some audit-like feature for tracking license compliance Aug 21 09:31:03 the dependency graph is dynamic Aug 21 09:31:10 the audit is static Aug 21 09:31:14 morning Aug 21 09:31:21 one from OBS, the other from pkgDB Aug 21 09:32:00 the more 'AB and OBS stuff is useful' feedback that Ramez (and Marc) gets, the more likely we'll prioritise it Aug 21 09:32:22 once AB gets into scope we'll have resource to support it :) Aug 21 09:33:00 .o/ Aug 21 09:33:03 AB should really be in scope for everyone Aug 21 09:33:03 :P Aug 21 09:33:41 yes, I realise ... so it'd help if you told Ramez that as the CE cheif wotsit Aug 21 09:43:14 Stskeeps: back to the timestamp in binary problem : rpm -V $(rpm -qf $BINARY ) tells you if it's modified AIUI Aug 21 09:46:54 mm Aug 21 10:21:29 DocScrutinizer: ping Aug 21 10:33:18 lbt, what would the MINT process add to the CE? Aug 21 10:33:54 remove drudgery, allow improved QA/process validation Aug 21 10:35:50 sounds reasonable, is there an outline document on the wiki? Aug 21 10:37:05 ahh http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Infrastructure Aug 21 10:48:48 morning bergie \o Aug 21 10:48:53 how is the flow programmung Aug 21 10:52:56 woo, perl no longer makes timestamped builds \o/ Aug 21 10:53:23 that should reduce churn extremely Aug 21 11:05:01 Stskeeps: what version of perl? Aug 21 11:08:20 lcuk: moving forward... http://universalruntime.tumblr.com/post/8998693776/node-js-powered-web-server-written-with-the-noflo Aug 21 11:26:12 bergie, what are you using it to build? Aug 21 11:27:44 bergie, does it generate a native class tree out of the visual nodes Aug 21 11:35:51 bergie: hmmm noflo seems quite similar conceptually to BOSS Aug 21 11:36:49 obs tells me "The setup of repository is broken, build not possible.", any idea what that's supposed to mean and/or how i get rid of that? Aug 21 11:37:26 lbt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow-based_programming Aug 21 11:45:57 bergie: so our black boxes are called participants Aug 21 11:46:23 http://autodoc.meego.com/mint/ Aug 21 11:46:39 eg http://autodoc.meego.com/mint/boss-participant-prechecks/participants/check_package_built_at_source.html Aug 21 11:48:23 bergie: of course our messages flow across multiple systems and languages (python/perl/ruby/php) using AMQP and json ... :) Aug 21 12:07:11 lbt if you have a worker that is idle for something Aug 21 12:07:20 does it poll for things Aug 21 12:07:23 or does it wait Aug 21 12:08:01 pretty sure it waits Aug 21 12:09:12 reasonable Aug 21 12:09:51 lbt i have been looking at push message stuff Aug 21 12:10:03 the comet code i mentioned the other day Aug 21 12:10:54 which is useful for mobile clients knowing job statuses without draining battery polling every few seconds Aug 21 12:16:51 lcuk: the obs code is fairly mature - unlikely to change it w/o benefit Aug 21 12:17:10 lbt was not considering that Aug 21 12:36:12 is the wetab a megoo os ? Aug 21 12:36:31 s/megoo/meego/ Aug 21 12:36:31 wald0 meant: is the wetab a meego os ? Aug 21 12:36:39 thanks infobot :) Aug 21 12:37:38 I'm not sure about their current status, but they might be meego 1.0 core compliant Aug 21 12:38:25 mmh, i would like to know the disk space used for the operating system, is there any channel specific for meego ? Aug 21 12:38:44 #meego Aug 21 12:38:45 SpeedEvil: Error: "meego" is not a valid command. Aug 21 12:39:11 ah Aug 21 12:39:17 * SpeedEvil is tired, and not parsing right. Aug 21 12:45:34 sorry, i meant wetab Aug 21 12:45:57 what is the aprox. size of the installed OS's of meego ? Aug 21 12:46:46 wald0: that depends on the UX and vendor specific packages Aug 21 12:52:14 w00t_, you mentioned yesterday you were poking around ofono, any particular reason Aug 21 12:53:06 wald0: if you have one, it's probably enough to go to a terminal window and do a |df| Aug 21 12:54:38 no, i dont have one... i ask that because im looking to buy a wetab and there's 16gb and 32gb, where im not decided yet... i think that i can do anything with 16gb because 32 becomes pretty more expensive just for that Aug 21 12:55:16 wald0: I would be astonished if it's a gig. Aug 21 12:55:28 wald0: No SD slot I assume? Aug 21 12:56:07 wetab has a SD slot Aug 21 12:56:26 discovered it just week ago or so... Aug 21 12:57:50 wald0: amazon.de at least has very very cheap prices for the wetab Aug 21 12:58:18 compared to the "official" price at least Aug 21 12:58:22 let's make a look to amazon.de Aug 21 12:59:04 i want to install a second OS, around 2gb clean install, this is why i ask how much "uses" meego, anybody knows (or has one to run df) ? Aug 21 12:59:10 I don't remember how big the recovery image is but not too big Aug 21 12:59:24 and it has a USB port and an SDHC slot, so you can pop additional storage into it Aug 21 12:59:48 well, recovery image can be compressed, very probably Aug 21 13:00:02 so 3x more than the image Aug 21 13:00:27 KaIRC: only one usb ? Aug 21 13:00:35 two Aug 21 13:00:43 wald0: also, it seems that between the 16GB and 32GB variants there's more difference than just the storage Aug 21 13:01:01 yes, i think that i could solve it with the extra slots...specially sdhc (not annoying thing plugged) Aug 21 13:01:19 KaIRC: really ? which things ? Aug 21 13:01:41 not sure, on amazon it looks like gps could not be supported on the 16GB variant, but I'm not sure Aug 21 13:02:13 their own page doesn't sounds like that Aug 21 13:03:04 ah, possible... well, fortunately im not interesed on gps or 3g :) Aug 21 13:03:43 wetab is far from sexy as a development board but for basic stuff and light UI development it is pretty nice Aug 21 13:03:51 weighs a ton, though Aug 21 13:04:03 * SpeedEvil idly wonders about meego on pre Aug 21 13:04:11 Bostik, light ui development? Aug 21 13:04:12 anybody knows if supports more than one finger ? i suppose that since ipod's appears, this should be a very basic need... Aug 21 13:04:18 why not normal/heavy ui development? Aug 21 13:04:27 i would like to use it for tests/programming Aug 21 13:04:40 lcuk: the gpu is very low-end Aug 21 13:05:07 Bostik, lower than n900? Aug 21 13:05:26 * lcuk sighs at all ui requiring heavy gpu Aug 21 13:05:33 although we did get 60fps out of it on full screen... Aug 21 13:05:43 \o/ Aug 21 13:06:06 * wald0 thinks that any UI development that not works in low-end gpu's is not worth :) Aug 21 13:07:08 * SpeedEvil notes that his PII/300 laptop worked fine with a 800x600 screen. Aug 21 13:07:16 And was completely acceptably fast. Aug 21 13:07:24 a very simple plasma effect with nothing but a a background image jabs 63-68% of gpu power Aug 21 13:07:30 Bostik, according to wikipedia there is a 1.6g cpu Aug 21 13:08:07 the it requires better optimization lol Aug 21 13:08:12 the soft, i mean :) Aug 21 13:09:11 SpeedEvil: I remember the 8086 being too fast for all those 8088 games... Aug 21 13:09:42 Bostik, I remember the days when you saw plasma being rendered Aug 21 13:09:52 a lovely algorithm in fractint Aug 21 13:09:57 Bostik: hmm, sounds like one should not use such an inefficient system as plasma, then :P Aug 21 13:10:10 * SpeedEvil remembers 320*240 raytraces taking several hours. Aug 21 13:10:16 (386dx/20) Aug 21 13:10:19 kairc, you need plasma for the warp core rendering Aug 21 13:10:24 * wald0 remembers the TURBO button :P Aug 21 13:10:27 SpeedEvil: you should use my cluster Aug 21 13:10:36 it will be done within a year Aug 21 13:10:37 good old Turbo button Aug 21 13:10:51 KaIRC: it's a good test baseline, as it creates updates all over the screen Aug 21 13:10:51 lcuk: warp cores need to be used for propulsion, not for rendering Aug 21 13:10:56 because sometimes I wanted to run my computer at 62.5% reduced speed Aug 21 13:11:05 KaIRC, ahh Aug 21 13:11:08 Bostik: well, sounds like a waste of resources :P Aug 21 13:11:19 except that the turbo button in my casing wasn't connected to anything :-) Aug 21 13:11:23 * KaIRC is intentionally non-seriously trolling ;-) Aug 21 13:11:26 that it is, sure :) Aug 21 13:11:35 i wonder if fractint will build in obs Aug 21 13:11:49 * lcuk goes and searches for a linux package Aug 21 13:11:53 thiago: yes, for games is very good when you found the "big boss" and unpress it :) Aug 21 13:12:27 wald0: like calibrating timer loops that overflowed? Aug 21 13:12:30 oh and btw, world of goo runs nicely on wetab with meego 1.2 :) Aug 21 13:12:47 playing that with touch is neat Aug 21 13:13:14 Bostik, is it in an obs somewhere? Aug 21 13:13:20 no Aug 21 13:13:27 * thiago remembers that the PC Washer toy-app was just 1 or 2s of unintelligible noise on his 386 Aug 21 13:13:49 coworker installed their rpm and deps, and that's it Aug 21 13:14:11 it did need a config tweak to use whole screen Aug 21 13:14:14 thiago: nah, slowing the game is more easy to kill the big boss :) Aug 21 13:14:44 good, old times when you could tell how long code would take to execute with certainty by counting clock cycles Aug 21 13:15:05 in fact, once both are mature and I finally have a tablet, I'll be quite torn between Plasma Active and whatever comes out of B2G as a primary environment - but I'd want MeeGo underneath any of them Aug 21 13:15:09 no cache misses, lengthy memory accesses, page faults, preemptive multitasking... Aug 21 13:16:21 very coffe during compilations... Aug 21 13:16:50 and yes, I want a good GPU with an open driver, and I want to run WebGL on it :) Aug 21 13:17:48 (and I want a pony...) Aug 21 13:17:49 thiago: It's astonishing that random byte access times essentially hasn't changed since ~1990 Aug 21 13:19:11 wooohoo i found a .spec file for xfractint Aug 21 13:19:21 and a .src.rpm too Aug 21 13:19:30 Oooh. Aug 21 13:19:35 Pinch+zoomy goodness. Aug 21 13:19:45 well i dont know about that Aug 21 13:20:06 Bostik: world of goo seems to not need a lot of graphics acceleration, interestingly, it worked fine with all kinds of old graphics chips when I tried it Aug 21 13:20:16 but it was one of the first open source apps I ever looked at and tinkered with Aug 21 13:20:20 true Aug 21 13:20:46 SpeedEvil: in terms of cycles? Aug 21 13:20:54 thiago: In terms of nanoseconds Aug 21 13:21:10 playing with touch gives the game a nice feel Aug 21 13:21:26 well, we can just access a whole lot of bytes in parallel Aug 21 13:22:15 thiago: 1990 was ~200ns or so. Now is 10ns or so Aug 21 13:22:44 thiago, back then touchscreen devices cost thousands of pounds Aug 21 13:22:46 Bostik: hmm, I'll need to try that on this 23" desktop touch screen some time Aug 21 13:22:56 well, the original lightpens were cheap Aug 21 13:23:04 but they went out of fashion Aug 21 13:23:35 thiago: But RAM price has dropped by a factor of 10000 or so, while access time only by 20 Aug 21 13:24:58 well, you rarely need a single byte in reality, and accessing a larger block has been optimized more Aug 21 13:25:24 True. Aug 21 13:25:37 Though it depends. Aug 21 13:25:47 Sometimes you can't avoid hitting that penalty over and over Aug 21 13:26:09 This can be exploited in some cases. Aug 21 13:26:45 For example - if you have an algorithm with 3MB of data accessed randomly, it will execute at remarkably the same speed on platforms from cellphones to ultra-high-end servers. Aug 21 13:26:50 sure... I'm more concerned about disk speed on my desktop, actually - and on mobile, I'm more concerend about having an open system that works well Aug 21 13:27:42 SpeedEvil: so you mean you can calibrate speed with that? Aug 21 13:28:07 KaIRC: For example hashing algorithms. Aug 21 13:28:27 Even the fastest processors don't have more than xMb of cache. Aug 21 13:28:33 Where x is still quite small Aug 21 13:28:47 I heard that sometimes running them on the GPU is faster than on the CPU Aug 21 13:29:13 It depends, not for applications where you need random access to large amounts of RAM Aug 21 13:29:20 oh, ok Aug 21 13:30:02 but what does it help you to have an algorithm that can't use the strength of a "better" system? Aug 21 13:30:44 A working set larger than cache, and accesses spread so that reading a cacheline in only reads one byte Aug 21 13:32:40 I still don't see what such a slow algorithm is good for Aug 21 13:38:44 ahh the fun of optimising asm algorithm to fit in 256bytes of cache Aug 21 13:38:52 *instruction cache Aug 21 13:46:07 bah i cant get fractint binaries to work Aug 21 13:47:59 KaIRC: If you can hash at around same speed as a (say) cellphone can, on a fast machine, then that can make attacks which require the server to generate lots of hashes impractical. Aug 21 13:48:50 Versus more normal algorithms may go 100* faster on fast server. Aug 21 13:49:18 ok Aug 21 13:49:26 cellphones tend to have some sexy crypto accelerators Aug 21 13:49:57 Bostik: Sure Aug 21 13:55:31 holy crap Aug 21 13:55:38 i see mandelbrot on my meego ideapad Aug 21 13:55:39 :D Aug 21 13:55:41 :) Aug 21 13:56:39 \o/ Aug 21 13:57:50 {} Aug 21 14:05:33 curiously Aug 21 14:05:40 fractint on my ideapad Aug 21 14:05:44 appears no squicker now Aug 21 14:06:11 the plasma rendering (thanks Bostik) still tile renders at about same speed I remember on 486 spec machines Aug 21 14:07:53 lorenz chaotic butteryfly renders quickly Aug 21 14:08:08 * lcuk really pleased to see this Aug 21 14:09:21 http://www.openmamba.org/distribution/distromatic.html?tag=milestone1-updates&pkg=xfractint.source Aug 21 14:09:27 incase others want to tinker Aug 21 14:09:39 the binary package from there installs with rpm -i :) Aug 21 14:51:22 i`m need help Aug 21 14:53:01 phone don`t load Aug 21 14:57:56 phone isn`t loaded. flasher3-5 doesn`t stitch phone. what will prompt? Aug 21 15:01:29 who live is? Aug 21 15:52:40 how would an app launcher operate on semi accurate touchscreen Aug 21 15:52:55 sometimes when scrolling app list on capacitive screen Aug 21 15:53:02 accidental press occurs Aug 21 15:53:19 should each app require double tap Aug 21 15:53:30 or a dedicated button Aug 21 15:53:45 like the network connect button in harmattan connections dialog Aug 21 15:58:08 lcuk: I would probably solve that with some kind of timer - only accept taps if there has not been any other kind of touch (pointer) event in a given, arguably short time Aug 21 15:58:23 so a tap would require to lift a finger first, really Aug 21 16:08:17 Bostik, hmm perhaps Aug 21 16:08:27 i shall experiment some more Aug 21 16:20:30 what it`s "modprobe: FATAL: can not load /etc/module/kernel***" what it`s Aug 21 16:20:41 device n900 Aug 21 16:21:11 whut? /etc/module/... ? Aug 21 16:21:22 aren't modules supposed to be in /lib/modules/... Aug 21 16:24:12 they are Aug 21 16:24:22 nge: what's the exact error message you're getting? Aug 21 16:24:52 thiago, when device try loaded Aug 21 16:25:15 "when device try loaded" is not syntactically correct English Aug 21 16:30:30 thiago, meego tries to boot, takes off the message, the black sceen, reboot Aug 21 16:30:41 ok Aug 21 16:30:44 but what is the exact message? Aug 21 16:39:20 could a font's installation be a temporary fix for this? https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22701 Aug 21 16:39:23 Bug 22701 nor, Undecided, ---, james.wei, NEW, No Hebrew fonts in web pages. Aug 21 16:39:55 * sivang is testing tablet on a daily basis now, reading the Qt documentation with it is nothing short but pure pleasure. Aug 21 16:40:07 also, big kudos to browser team for N950 Aug 21 16:40:24 the first mobile browser I can really use and enjoy in the same time. Aug 21 16:40:29 is it still MicroB ? Aug 21 16:40:35 MeeGoBot: well, the fix for the absence of fonts is to install the fonts :-) Aug 21 16:40:37 thiago: ok Aug 21 16:40:43 oops Aug 21 16:40:47 sivan: well, the fix for the absence of fonts is to install the fonts :-) Aug 21 16:40:48 thiago: do we have a package for that? Aug 21 16:41:01 * sivang needs to connect a keyboard and hasonly one. Aug 21 16:41:03 I don't know. Aug 21 16:41:09 thiago: I know that :) Aug 21 16:41:19 sivang: the browser on the N950 and N9 is grob Aug 21 16:41:24 it's a QtWebKit-based browser Aug 21 16:41:26 who's grob? Aug 21 16:41:32 thiago: so no more gecko? Aug 21 16:41:38 sivang, thiago - and what a great job it does Aug 21 16:41:39 no, it's not gecko Aug 21 16:41:47 uh-ha! Aug 21 16:41:59 lcuk: seriously, the best mobile browser I have ever had the pleasuure to touch. Aug 21 16:42:08 * lcuk agrees Aug 21 16:42:11 lcuk: it is like having a true desktop browsing experience. Aug 21 16:42:12 really good ux Aug 21 16:42:18 best UX ever. Aug 21 16:42:24 the firefox that was on the Harmattan images up until recently was good too Aug 21 16:42:31 but it used too much RAM, so it became slow too quickly Aug 21 16:42:42 shall see how well n950-ce works with it Aug 21 16:42:45 if Nokia sells the N9's ux to a handset vendor, Harmattan *will* be the succesor to iPhone. Aug 21 16:42:53 unfortunately, using gecko to paint to a cairo raster image, then load the image into Qt and draw wasn't a good design Aug 21 16:42:56 thiago: yes, like on the N900 Aug 21 16:43:21 but it still had some necessary features that grob still didn't last i checked Aug 21 16:43:22 thiago: right, too many levels of indirection. Aug 21 16:43:35 no mouse-cursor mode, no way to drag parts of the screen (e.g., google maps) Aug 21 16:43:57 there were also some other basics that were missing but I can't remember now what Aug 21 16:44:10 I'm sure, but for the mobile use in the restaurant or so, it is good enough. Aug 21 16:44:26 thiago: isn't that working with one finger touch? Aug 21 16:44:26 thiago: I didn't stumble upon them yet, so I guess for the average user that's more than enough. Aug 21 16:44:36 arfoll: nice @ cocom Aug 21 16:44:37 or it's implemented them since I last tried Aug 21 16:44:49 it's been two months since I handed back my N950 Aug 21 16:45:02 I don't think Safari on iFone supports mouse curosor Aug 21 16:45:03 but indeed a nifty feature Aug 21 16:45:03 right :) Aug 21 16:45:12 last time I chekced, the gesture for mouse cursor was ignored Aug 21 16:45:13 Stskeeps, yeah hopefully it'll be possible to get real meego tv hardware now Aug 21 16:45:16 and I updated a day ago. Aug 21 16:45:28 * sivang rechecks Aug 21 16:45:53 if you're interested in why the name "grob", it's because an engineer was working on the überbrowser project Aug 21 16:46:09 but he's Finnish, and there ü and y are the same, so he wrote yberbrowser Aug 21 16:46:31 thiago: interesting :) Aug 21 16:46:35 then the Danes took over and they wanted to call it großbrowser, but couldn't find the ß in their keyboards Aug 21 16:46:38 hence, grob Aug 21 16:46:45 lol Aug 21 16:46:51 is it an open source projoect? Aug 21 16:46:54 danes wanted to call it a german word? thank god they shut down the place Aug 21 16:46:54 :P Aug 21 16:47:01 Stskeeps: LOL Aug 21 16:47:08 I hope they release everything Aug 21 16:47:15 likely not the browser itself, but the engine is open Aug 21 16:47:19 so Nokia in denmakr? Aug 21 16:47:24 yes Aug 21 16:47:26 I did not know there are Nokia R&D there. Aug 21 16:47:32 the five guys left from the Copenhagen office Aug 21 16:47:45 so the UX is closed? (for the browser, again a ground breaking design for browser UX) Aug 21 16:47:48 they're the ones working on the browser, along with another half-dozen in Oslo Aug 21 16:48:01 what design? show a page full-screen? Aug 21 16:48:14 with a location bar on the top if you scroll far up? Aug 21 16:48:20 thiago: mouse cursor gesture does not make sense together with the "swipe" concept. Aug 21 16:48:29 thiago: e.g. no sane way to turn it on, like on the N900 :-) Aug 21 16:48:30 sivang: find another gesture Aug 21 16:48:56 the N950 supported up to 10 fingers Aug 21 16:48:57 * sivang hopes he'll have enough money to buy an N9. Aug 21 16:48:58 swan gesture, browse ecologically Aug 21 16:49:11 some combination must be available Aug 21 16:49:32 thiago: what's the new browser in symbian anna? it's clearly using a very different rendering engine to the old one Aug 21 16:49:41 Stskeeps: exactly. Aug 21 16:49:55 ali1234: I don't know. It's definitely WebKit, but I don't know which of the projects. Aug 21 16:49:55 ali1234: you get it on your N8? Aug 21 16:50:07 ali1234: Symbian has used WebKit for 5 years now Aug 21 16:50:09 sivang: no sadly i got it on my C7 which can't be downgraded Aug 21 16:50:18 * sivang needs to turn on the N8 to get the update, since E7 does not show any update whatsoever. Aug 21 16:50:25 don't bother, it's rubbish Aug 21 16:50:35 ali1234: It might be the "Browser 7" project, "Browser 8" project or "Browser 9" Aug 21 16:50:35 just some new icons Aug 21 16:50:38 that's it Aug 21 16:50:48 ali1234: I think 8 and 9 are QtWebKit Aug 21 16:50:49 and a new browser that can't render fonts for toffee Aug 21 16:50:58 ali1234: you sure? I heard rather an interesting talk in Berlin about Anna and the many fixes and performances boosts it shall bring. Aug 21 16:51:06 yeah that's nonsense Aug 21 16:51:08 toffee as in the sweet? Aug 21 16:51:14 oh and ovi store doesn't work any more either Aug 21 16:51:57 it certainly isn't any faster Aug 21 16:52:11 ali1234: I think that's caused by the Qt upgrade to 4.7; the Ovi Store made use of some non-public APIs and broken behaviour Aug 21 16:52:18 but I'm sure that was tested before... Aug 21 16:52:32 ali1234: okay, so back to concentrate on meego (and some harmattan) Aug 21 16:52:37 ovi store crashes on my N950 Aug 21 16:52:54 i don't seem to have the same problem with ovi that everyone else is haivng Aug 21 16:53:05 mine loads up but when i try to sign in it just hangs on "loading" Aug 21 16:53:09 I wish the N9 would have been sold more widely. Aug 21 16:53:11 actually the IM thingy does the same Aug 21 16:53:12 such a rocking device. Aug 21 16:53:21 so it's a problem with ovi signon in any app Aug 21 16:53:22 mine crashes :) Aug 21 16:53:27 thiago: was there a plan where to report harmattan bugs? Aug 21 16:53:47 although the enforced ovi signup on first boot worked Aug 21 16:54:02 ali1234: this worked for me as well. Aug 21 16:54:15 but i'm still talking about symbian anna :) Aug 21 16:54:21 oh Aug 21 16:54:22 i don't have a n950 Aug 21 16:54:40 for why you shouldn't upgrade, check my recent posts: https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts Aug 21 16:54:45 oops Aug 21 16:55:02 sivang: no clue Aug 21 16:56:02 ah, bing Aug 21 16:56:05 ali1234: ^ Aug 21 16:56:26 ali1234: so no fonts for you eh? almost like my problem with intel's tablet, just less severe ;) Aug 21 16:56:34 no fonts? Aug 21 16:56:38 no, that's just what it looks like Aug 21 16:56:43 for everyone Aug 21 16:57:19 ali1234: what can I say... Aug 21 16:57:26 * sivang shrugs Aug 21 16:57:43 at least you N8 users have the option to downgrade with service tools Aug 21 16:57:54 i'm stuck with this rubbish Aug 21 16:58:05 and it will probably be another year before any of it gets fixed Aug 21 16:58:07 ali1234: I will not update, now that you told me, thanks. Aug 21 16:58:37 having the N950 is a big comfort. Aug 21 16:58:37 well, the N9 for that matter. Aug 21 16:58:47 if you desperately want the new icons and theme they are available seperately on modding forums Aug 21 16:59:02 meh, i have a nice android phone Aug 21 16:59:09 shame it crashes once a week Aug 21 16:59:17 and the battery lasts about 4 hours Aug 21 16:59:19 ovi < * Aug 21 16:59:52 up until anna, C7 was the best phone i ever used Aug 21 17:00:09 ali1234: C7 is a great phone, indeed. Aug 21 17:00:24 I made my ex gf buy it, but then she switched to iPhone Aug 21 17:00:28 and i've used about everything except for iphone Aug 21 17:00:52 she could not put with the fact calls were accidentely rejected or answered Aug 21 17:01:12 ali1234: anyway, 'nough with the renting, better try to do some Qt stuff :) Aug 21 17:01:17 *ranting Aug 21 17:01:18 i never had that problem on C7. it happened all the time on N900 and WM5 Aug 21 17:01:36 ali1234: she would press the phone to her chick as well, and the call would get disconnected. Aug 21 17:01:46 android doesn't seem to do it, but i still miss calls because of thegeneral crashing and rubbish battery life Aug 21 17:01:48 ali1234: cause the proxmity / light sensor threshold is too low Aug 21 17:02:07 ah, i see Aug 21 17:02:52 ali1234: I can't take android seriously, seriously now :) Aug 21 17:03:04 neither can i Aug 21 17:03:06 ali1234: it is too much half baked for my stomache even compared to the firmware on the N950 :-p Aug 21 17:03:08 it's a nice toy though Aug 21 17:03:18 ali1234: and the N950 is still not even beta :) Aug 21 17:03:21 or is it? Aug 21 17:03:22 youtube app and google+ app are great Aug 21 17:03:33 nothing else comes close to how good they are Aug 21 17:03:41 ali1234: agreed, but someone from Helsinki once showed me how to have all the google apps on Symbian if you want them. Aug 21 17:03:47 unfortunately it is a nicetoy but a rubbish phone Aug 21 17:04:07 ali1234: as in, google made sis files for most of the apps they have. including maps. Aug 21 17:04:30 i highly doubt they work anywhere near as well Aug 21 17:04:38 maps surprised me. Aug 21 17:04:42 really Aug 21 17:05:27 give it a try. Aug 21 17:05:28 anywya Aug 21 17:05:28 be back later. Aug 21 18:56:54 since fractint works on my ideapad Aug 21 18:57:04 javispedro mentioned about making pinch/zoom work on it Aug 21 18:57:13 but it would be really tricky to do that! Aug 21 18:58:27 mypaint works quite lovely on the ideapad, a bit slow, but maybe that's because krita is compiling in the background Aug 21 18:59:51 vandenoever, awesome Aug 21 18:59:58 where did you get mypaint from? Aug 21 19:01:29 lcuk: i compiled it (i have gentoo on the exopc), it might be in opensuse too Aug 21 19:01:38 I think the "thud thud thud" I can hear in the background is V fest Aug 21 19:02:05 vandenoever, any reason to not use obs? Aug 21 19:02:18 * lcuk trying to figure out workflow from finding awesome app Aug 21 19:02:24 and getting it onto obs for others Aug 21 19:02:42 lcuk: i have obs too for convenience and meego, but i thought i'd see if compiling for atom makes a difference Aug 21 19:02:54 vandenoever, sure Aug 21 19:03:09 if you find time, could you add mypaint onto your repository Aug 21 19:03:30 eh, i mean i have opensuse, not obs, i have obs repositories though Aug 21 19:03:48 i guess i should look into obs at some point too Aug 21 19:04:11 and with 'i have obs repositories' i mean i *use* them, i do not have my own Aug 21 19:04:28 http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS Aug 21 19:04:31 when you do ;) Aug 21 19:04:34 last time i tried obs it used it to make a webkit for (odfkit) and that really was too heavy Aug 21 19:04:45 s/for/fork Aug 21 19:07:14 webkit's huge Aug 21 19:07:14 :P Aug 21 19:08:49 Hey, quick one... anyone know where I can add a new menu to meego ivi? I want to add another one, similar to "Navigation" or "Video" Aug 21 19:09:22 I know how to add entries under those top level menus, I need another top lvel menu. Aug 21 19:23:42 "For now, if you wish to make changes to the menu, like edit and add additional categories, and modify the groups to filter out which application to show up, you'll need to re-compile to plugin" [0]https://meego.com/devices/in-vehicle/in-vehicle-faq#q15 Aug 21 19:23:52 That's apparently my answer. No biggie though. Aug 21 21:07:54 hi! Where I can get some recent "upstream" version of meego, for n900? Smth, with which I can create useful bug reports. Aug 21 21:10:28 http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/ Aug 21 21:11:46 thanks (I was looking at repo.meego.org, and couldn't found anything recent) Aug 21 21:15:35 i have no idea if those images even work btw Aug 21 21:16:35 its ok, I understand what I'm doing Aug 21 21:20:43 Does anyone know how accurate the information on here: https://meego.com/devices/in-vehicle/in-vehicle-faq is ? I have absolutely no qml files in my install. Aug 21 21:41:49 are there any reccomended tablets for meego? Aug 21 21:45:08 crazedpsyc: I would say ExoPC Aug 21 21:45:42 WeTab (comes with Meego, but I don't know if it's available outside Germany) Aug 21 21:48:19 Cool, I'll take a look :) Aug 21 21:48:53 win7 home premium. lovely. ;) Aug 21 21:50:43 Hmm, the ExoPC has pretty low specs.. the Motorola Xoom looks better Aug 21 23:17:51 0 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Aug 22 01:29:03 2011