**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 03 02:59:56 2008 Nov 03 03:52:07 anyone home? Nov 03 03:52:47 i'm having a problem where when rsnapshot dies cp -al takes all of nslu2 memory to rollback Nov 03 03:52:57 anyone knows solution to this? Nov 03 14:09:13 fwiw about garpinc's question... Nov 03 14:14:02 i use rsync and cp -al on a partition about 2G, and the process completes Nov 03 16:53:06 Can i spin down the disk which host my system, or should i move my system on a usb flash and only data on the hard disk? Nov 03 17:28:51 is there a webbased downloadmanager which i can run on my slug and control it via web browser? Nov 03 17:37:13 fabschub: Http downloads? Nov 03 17:37:55 PPmarcel: yes. ftp also would be nice Nov 03 17:39:04 Why don't you use you computer web browser? Nov 03 17:39:11 your* Nov 03 17:40:30 If downloads are too long, else you can try tu use your slug with ssh (but it is command lines), or maybe by using a web-terminal, as ajaxterm Nov 03 17:41:59 coz i want to download all files in one place. and sometimes i would like to start a download (ISO) when i am not at home via umts Nov 03 17:43:30 atm i am using ssh with wget Nov 03 17:45:03 ajaxterm sounds interresting. will give it a try Nov 03 17:45:06 Well, ajaxterm is ssh in web browser, but it's still a console Nov 03 17:45:29 But no ssh packets are sent, only http protocol is used Nov 03 17:45:34 Ok Nov 03 17:46:36 For you nslu2, you can use lighttpd instead of apache2 Nov 03 17:46:52 i am on lighttpd Nov 03 17:47:01 Because you can use https with lighttpd, and it's still lighteigh Nov 03 17:47:05 Ok :) Nov 03 17:47:06 using wb3torrent on it Nov 03 17:47:31 so i thought there will be smillar for http downloads Nov 03 17:48:32 *w3btorrent Nov 03 17:48:38 :) Nov 03 17:48:51 rtorrent has got a webmin too now Nov 03 17:49:07 And you can still use it in console and web Nov 03 17:49:39 i read about it Nov 03 17:49:50 http://libtorrent.rakshasa.no/wiki/UtilsList Nov 03 17:50:19 I don't say it is better than w3btorrent, i just say it exists, and it could interest you Nov 03 17:50:32 :) Nov 03 20:57:25 I should post my question on yahoo newsgroup (about spin down)? Nov 03 20:58:53 what's the question Nov 03 21:02:12 Can i spin down the disk which host my system, or should i move my system on a usb flash and only data on the hard disk? Nov 03 21:02:43 what do you do with it Nov 03 21:02:46 I guess i can't spin down my os, but i zant to be sure Nov 03 21:03:37 Hum, i use it for downloading some torrents, but it's not really often. Else i use for irssi, and i host a vpn and http-tunnel Nov 03 21:03:57 Everything fit in ram, except rtorrentm of course Nov 03 21:04:00 how often do you expect to be able to spin it down Nov 03 21:04:40 I want to spin down in there is 10 ~ 15 min lack of activities Nov 03 21:04:53 Most of time, only irssi is really working Nov 03 21:05:01 how often do you expect to be able to spin it down Nov 03 21:05:28 Ah, i want to make it automatic Nov 03 21:05:56 I found tools for that, so it's not myself who will really decide Nov 03 21:05:57 heh Nov 03 21:06:07 you're missing my question or what Nov 03 21:06:25 You should reformulate it 0:) Nov 03 21:07:41 You talk about frequency, the time it will be spined down or what? Nov 03 21:07:56 how often do you expect... Nov 03 21:08:03 what is your expectation Nov 03 21:08:08 not what you want to do Nov 03 21:08:12 what you calculate Nov 03 21:08:36 I though i answered it Nov 03 21:08:49 I want to spin down... Nov 03 21:08:58 not what you want, what do you calculate Nov 03 21:09:06 Aaaah Nov 03 21:09:53 if it's gonna have time to be spun down imo you might as well just use a usb flash device Nov 03 21:09:54 Let me search for my words :) Nov 03 21:10:22 No, i need some space for downloaded files Nov 03 21:10:41 I just want to save my disk's life as much as i can Nov 03 21:11:10 and you have some indication that spinning the drive down will do that? Nov 03 21:11:13 I think it's useless to let it idle 24h/24 7d/7 for 10 or 20 % usage of it Nov 03 21:11:24 It won't? Nov 03 21:11:33 all my drives run constantly Nov 03 21:11:43 I think they're designed for that actually Nov 03 21:12:47 Like a car: the more you drive with it, the faster they approach of their end :) Nov 03 21:13:11 that's what you think eh Nov 03 21:13:29 :) Nov 03 21:13:36 most of the wear and tear happens with spinning up and down Nov 03 21:13:42 that's what I think Nov 03 21:13:50 you got any stats to back you up Nov 03 21:14:18 But it's like stopping and starting a disk right? Nov 03 21:14:42 what Nov 03 21:15:08 spin down a disk, i thought it was like stopping Nov 03 21:15:09 it Nov 03 21:15:29 and? Nov 03 21:16:12 Well, i don't think that spinning down a disk is more dangerous than turning of the nas :) Nov 03 21:16:19 tunring off Nov 03 21:16:22 refrrr Nov 03 21:16:46 who said it was Nov 03 21:17:13 Me, i don't know ^^ Nov 03 21:17:15 most of the wear and tear with electronics comes when you turn it on Nov 03 21:18:45 About my exceptations, i want to spin down my disk for some days Nov 03 21:19:14 I don't want to spin down for % minutes, but for long periods Nov 03 21:19:56 But if i launch nothing, i just want to know if the system can survive Nov 03 21:20:10 Or else i fit it in a memory flash Nov 03 21:23:16 What is the more nephast for a disk between idling for a long period, or just starting in at the end of this period? Nov 03 21:24:34 PPmarcel: You could write a little script to determine how often and for how long the disk would but in standby Nov 03 21:26:04 And then deciding if i really need to spin down this disk or not? Nov 03 21:26:10 Ok Nov 03 21:26:26 that's what I was getting at Nov 03 21:26:39 otherwise it's just an exercise in wheel spinning Nov 03 21:27:40 Ok DogBoy , i didn't understood your idea Nov 03 21:28:20 first you establish there is a problem Nov 03 21:28:22 then you fix it Nov 03 21:28:38 sometimes you're fixing stuff that's not broken Nov 03 21:28:43 I have before anyway Nov 03 21:30:28 PPmarcel: Try this: http://pastebin.com/m4a401eeb Nov 03 21:30:34 I have considered that my disk was like a usb flash, for preserving it from activities Nov 03 21:30:57 I have done some changements, in the fstab, log systems, etc Nov 03 21:30:58 http://www.cyrius.com/debian/nslu2/linux-on-flash.html Nov 03 21:31:12 PPmarcel: Wear mechanisms differ fundamentally between usb flash and harddisks Nov 03 21:31:28 anyway, in the script you need to adjust the first three parameters Nov 03 21:31:47 Ok Nov 03 21:31:59 DEV, IDLEMIN, LOGFILE - should be self-explanatory Nov 03 21:32:02 I need to run it how long time? Nov 03 21:32:24 Ahm forget Nov 03 21:32:55 for the duration of a typical - whatever you do... Nov 03 21:32:57 I thought the script was for monitoring Nov 03 21:33:12 upss Nov 03 21:33:14 upps Nov 03 21:33:25 forgot to take out the "hdparm" line! Nov 03 21:33:45 so just scrape the line "hdparm -Y /dev/$DEV" Nov 03 21:34:06 Ah ok :) Nov 03 21:37:19 a short summary: It addes the number of reads and writes and if that changes, the disk gets active (by itself). If it does not change for $IDLEMIN minutes, the disk is considered idle (on my NAS it turns off the disk). The log file records the events and their respective times. Nov 03 21:37:45 sorry, another little problem when slightly changing the code.... 1 sec Nov 03 21:41:00 http://pastebin.com/mf0d85d8 should work (the 11th line was not ok before) Nov 03 21:43:39 Changed Nov 03 21:44:12 Thank you Nov 03 21:44:29 I have some work to finish for tomorrow, so i have to go now Nov 03 21:44:42 I will launch the script and looking at access Nov 03 21:44:45 ok, hope you get some useful results Nov 03 21:44:54 :) Nov 03 21:45:05 then you still can decide on activating spin-down... Nov 03 21:45:20 PPmarcel: cu Nov 03 22:58:32 * mwester wishes people would consider commercial data centers when they think about spinning down disks. Logic would quickly reveal that there is NO good reason to do so, except perhaps noise. Nov 03 22:59:05 IF there were power savings of any significance to be gained, then datacenters would all spin down drives. But they do not. Nov 03 22:59:07 yea Nov 03 22:59:28 IF there were reliability to be gained, you would be certain to find data centers would spin down idle disks -- but they do not do so. Nov 03 22:59:35 heh Nov 03 22:59:44 Clearly, then, there is neither power savings, nor reliability, to be gained by spindown of a disk. Nov 03 22:59:46 I tried to explain it to him Nov 03 22:59:59 And the specs from the manufacturers bear this out. Nov 03 23:00:05 :( Nov 03 23:00:43 Ah well. That's why I spend no effort to test spindown on SlugOS or Unslung releases; it just makes no sense to me. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 04 02:59:57 2008