**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 20 02:59:57 2006 Dec 20 05:13:37 wow Debian etch frozen? http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS3128387759.html Dec 20 05:14:03 joshin are u on VDSL? Dec 20 05:14:33 Yes RobNC. Why? Dec 20 05:15:16 cool, I helped deveop that. Just too bad it's not avail where I live. What is your data rate profile? Dec 20 05:16:01 It is 3mbps down and around 1mbps up. The best that Qwest offers here. Dec 20 05:16:21 um, that's no better than ADSL, or perhaps ADSL2 Dec 20 05:16:53 In SBC territories, they can get 25Mbps down, 3Mbps up Dec 20 05:16:57 Nope but Qwest hasn't installed a DSL capable phone switch in the area so we're stuck with it. Dec 20 05:17:08 It is a marketing limit rather than a bandwidth limit. Dec 20 05:17:08 but that is also with IPTV as well Dec 20 05:17:14 Yes. Dec 20 05:17:26 gotcha... what's the modem make/model? Dec 20 05:18:19 Not sure. It is an all-in-one unit that's upstairs (and I'm not) that integrates both TV & Net connection... I can go check. Dec 20 05:18:32 sounds likes it is 2Wire Dec 20 05:20:05 some of those you can SSH into (if it isn't disabled) and determine the SNR margin and bitrate. Dec 20 05:20:25 Nextlevel CV30000 Dec 20 05:20:31 Is the model number on it. Dec 20 05:20:40 Ooh, that sounds interesting. :) Dec 20 05:20:42 ah thanks for looking but never heard of that. Dec 20 05:21:36 Oh well. Now you've got me tempted to try and hack into it. :) Dec 20 05:21:44 yeah sometimes they even have a web interface that they let customers use to do routing, etc. and probably buried somewhere in there is a menu for VDSL profile, etc. You can't get more than you're provisioned, but it at least tells you theoretically how much more you can get. Dec 20 05:22:10 does it also have wireless? Dec 20 05:22:17 Nope, no wireless. Dec 20 05:22:42 ah ok, could blame "hack attemps" on some teenager next door :-) Dec 20 05:23:09 :) Dec 20 05:23:32 Anyhow, I'm off to bed. 7 hours until the kids are awake and noisy... :) Night! Dec 20 05:23:32 but either way, this information should be available w/o hacking. Believe me, if you were to hack it, they'd probably know. Even if they didn't find out about it, they probably have upstream and downstream traffic shapers outside of your reach. If they did it right. Dec 20 05:23:43 ok take care Dec 20 05:24:08 You too. Dec 20 05:24:28 thks (I know about kids too!) Dec 20 09:29:56 Is it possible to install with ipkg two packages with the same name but different locations? Dec 20 10:04:10 should I consider renaming package ipkg to ipkg-opt? Dec 20 10:04:34 as I did with uclibc->uclibc-opt Dec 20 10:37:04 http://pastebin.ca/286106 <- openwrt boot on nslu2 Dec 20 10:38:00 openwrt? Dec 20 10:38:05 bleh Dec 20 10:38:42 heh Dec 20 10:39:55 * rwhitby is distro agnostic Dec 20 10:40:34 * NAiL likes debian Dec 20 10:40:41 I use openwrt for ~1.5 year on my router Dec 20 10:41:02 hrw|work: what do you use on it now? Dec 20 10:41:06 if only debian could use softfloat, it'd be great for my stuff Dec 20 10:41:11 rwhitby: wrt54gs Dec 20 10:41:37 hrw|work: what firmware on it? Dec 20 10:42:23 rwhitby: openwrt 'whiterussian' rc5 Dec 20 10:42:38 they do not support upgrades in other way then reflash Dec 20 10:43:12 I'm thinking that my fsg-3 might end up running either Debian or OpenWRT. So I'm building up to that by porting both those distros to the nslu2 and nas100d first ... Dec 20 10:43:15 so I stay with rc5 - if I have to reflash then I will change to something not openwrt based probably Dec 20 10:44:03 hrw|work: is Angstrom up to the task of a wireless router box with vlans and stuff ? Dec 20 10:45:01 hrw|work: this will change in kamikaze, for whiterussian be happy with what you have :) Dec 20 10:47:40 Kaloz: 2008 release year? Dec 20 10:48:05 rwhitby: probably can be done - matter of initscripts and netbase Dec 20 10:48:52 hrw|work: anyways, i can't see your problem, as most of the stuff is stored in nvram on wr.. that isn't erased on reflash - if you customized other stuff then you cna back it up, simply (or even create a patch and compile your own) Dec 20 10:49:33 Kaloz: I'm used to 'apt-get update;apt-get upgrade' way of updates Dec 20 10:50:12 hrw|work: nope, not 2008.. if you would ever look into svn, you would realise that most work happened on Kamikaze.. and the fact that you have a $60 router doesn't mean it has to be the main target, as there is fewer broadcom based (and usable) devices each day Dec 20 10:50:28 Kaloz: and I understand it Dec 20 10:50:28 hrw|work: fine.. i hope you know that apt-get alone wouldn't fit into your flash Dec 20 10:50:41 Kaloz: I'm happy with current state of my router Dec 20 10:50:59 Kaloz: I use embedded devices - I know that apt-get is not for flash Dec 20 10:51:04 Kaloz: and I know ipkg Dec 20 10:51:04 hrw|work: ipkg upgrade works on most stuff btw, just it's not advised Dec 20 10:52:09 as you can't upgrade the kernel (due to the fact the firmware layout was designed by broadcom) and you can't really uprade busybox (sometimes works, sometimes not) Dec 20 10:52:22 apt-get / dpkg uses too much ram swapping 40mb and more is not funny just to upgrade some files Dec 20 10:52:23 and uclibc and libgcc Dec 20 10:52:34 the main problem is that we could happily make different fun stuff for your 8MB flahs, but 80% of the users are on 4MB Dec 20 10:52:36 * rwhitby fears he has started a distro war ... Dec 20 10:52:47 so we can't design the firmware for 8MB devices really Dec 20 10:52:50 rwhitby: nah :) Dec 20 10:52:52 I know, I know Dec 20 10:53:14 hrw|work: belive me, i would be the happiest if not 90% of consumer stuff would be crippled Dec 20 10:53:36 Kaloz: I believe Dec 20 10:53:49 Kaloz: I have problem with fitting x11 based stuff in 14M of flash Dec 20 10:54:12 hrw|work: hehe :) are you crosscompiling xorg against uclibc? Dec 20 10:54:23 Kaloz: glibc Dec 20 10:54:40 btw, as a good hw design, i have a pronghorn metro board, too :) just the price of that isn't too nice Dec 20 10:54:56 hrw|work: ah, then sure, that cna be hard.. probably would fit there with uclibc Dec 20 10:55:26 Kaloz: it is easy as long as you can use kdrive on fbdev Dec 20 11:50:52 ~seen likewise Dec 20 11:50:59 likewise was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 2d 12h 48m 35s ago, saying: 'good nite'. Dec 20 12:34:23 Kaloz , I have running Optware packages on OpenWRT whiterussian. Dec 20 14:01:35 03oleo * r4766 10optware/trunk/ (7 files in 2 dirs): ipkg-utils: patches moved and other cleanup Dec 20 14:10:40 03oleo * r4767 10optware/trunk/sources/ (5 files): ipkg-utils: patches moved and other cleanup Dec 20 17:14:56 03bzhou * r4768 10optware/trunk/make/ncurses.mk: ncurses: define conditional NCURSES_FOR_OPTWARE_TARGET Dec 20 17:15:25 03bzhou * r4769 10optware/trunk/make/less.mk: less: use conditional NCURSES_FOR_OPTWARE_TARGET Dec 20 17:16:16 03bzhou * r4770 10optware/trunk/ (Makefile make/tmsnc.mk): added and promoted tmsnc Dec 20 17:43:38 03bzhou * r4771 10optware/trunk/ (Makefile make/picocom.mk): added and promoted picocom Dec 20 18:44:03 03bzhou * r4772 10optware/trunk/make/tmsnc.mk: tmsnc: added openssl dependency Dec 20 19:53:21 hello, i just got my nslu2 :) Dec 20 19:56:38 likewise: ping? Dec 20 19:57:02 pong, bang, clash, burn. Dec 20 19:57:09 hi! :-) Dec 20 19:57:19 jollino: congrats Dec 20 19:57:31 jollino: now, just don't brick it Dec 20 19:57:40 likewise: I sent you a mail re. epia & linuxbios. Read it? Dec 20 19:57:42 it's just very, very, very slow :( Dec 20 19:57:50 lol i haven't even flashed it, i'm using the vanilla firmware Dec 20 19:57:52 whoops, no, leonw address? Dec 20 19:57:57 but it's VERY slow Dec 20 19:58:00 like... transfers get stuck Dec 20 19:58:19 likewise: Can't remember actually. Don't have the mailaddress here Dec 20 19:58:42 likewise: anyway, I've got a rev.b epia m10k. I wondered if you had a ready-made bios? :) Dec 20 19:58:57 NAiL: lemme check. Dec 20 19:59:19 any hints on why the slug might be so slow to be unusable? Dec 20 19:59:23 NAiL: I have to see where I left the source tree... Lemme first check the board rev of mine. Dec 20 19:59:36 NAiL: yup, a rev. B Dec 20 19:59:58 yeah, you mentioned that on your success-report on linuxbios ml Dec 20 20:00:07 so I dug up my old card Dec 20 20:00:14 and it's the same one ;) Dec 20 20:00:42 NAiL: worst case, I have to rebuild. I have left the subversion revision at their wiki, with the single patch I needed for that revision. Dec 20 20:00:59 NAiL: and a lot of magic to extract the VGA BIOS code etc. Dec 20 20:01:38 NAiL: I am desperate to find my source tree back, so just ping me everytime you see me. Dec 20 20:01:40 yeah, I saw that. I just hoped that you had the known-good one, just in case something went bad during compile and stuff :P Dec 20 20:02:05 NAiL: yes, sure, np. Do you have a secondary FlashROM? (I have lotsof, can snailmail you one) Dec 20 20:02:16 Nope Dec 20 20:03:03 NAiL: OK, try to find a decent tool to extract the BIOS ROM from its socket. I use a very tiny screwdriver under a big angle (as flat as possible to the PCB). Or a real chip puller. Dec 20 20:03:25 * [g2] suggests a real-chip puller Dec 20 20:03:46 [g2]: yeah, I know. But I've done it with a tiny screwdriver before ;) Dec 20 20:03:50 * [g2] or a real chip-puller Dec 20 20:04:13 :-) Dec 20 20:04:20 <[g2]> likewise you mentioned something about lzma testing on the ml ? Dec 20 20:04:45 Sure, John Reiser said he had a LZMA kernel compressor Dec 20 20:04:59 which was still on my own todo, so I asked him for the code. Dec 20 20:05:10 Don't know his IRC nick though, you guys know him? Dec 20 20:05:17 <[g2]> dunno either Dec 20 20:05:20 no idea Dec 20 20:05:30 <[g2]> but I'd have thought lzma compressors were around Dec 20 20:05:44 hmm Dec 20 20:06:03 * NAiL might have a bios or two from some old motherboards lying around Dec 20 20:06:08 wonder if any of them are large enough Dec 20 20:06:21 See: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.misc.nslu2.devel/1385 Dec 20 20:06:58 NAiL: you need a compatible part (I have the double-sized part which is OK as long as you use the upper half) Dec 20 20:08:40 <[g2]> likewise doesn't busybox have a lzma compressor ? Dec 20 20:08:53 I am rebooting this box in a minute... Dec 20 20:08:58 [g2]: yes Dec 20 20:09:29 <[g2]> Ok, I don't understand what you were trying to do with the compressor then :( Dec 20 20:09:45 [g2]: but the compressor can be used in different ways: kernel compressor/decompressor, file compressor/decompressor, filesystem compressor/decompressor. Dec 20 20:10:15 OpenEmbedded does the latter two already (lzma and squashfs-lzma) but not the first Dec 20 20:11:04 [g2]: when a device starts the kernel, its actually starts a decompressor, which decompresses a piggybacked compressed kernel into ram, then starts the real kernel from ram. Dec 20 20:11:14 currently, gzip is used for this Dec 20 20:11:24 <[g2]> Ok. so squashfs-lzma is on the whole fs and lzma is just one of compresson/decompression algo's. Dec 20 20:11:32 yes. Dec 20 20:11:42 <[g2]> probably the tightest Dec 20 20:11:59 the compressor tool is also called 'lzma', just like 'bzip2' Dec 20 20:12:07 tighest in what terms? Dec 20 20:12:14 decompressor code size? Dec 20 20:12:15 <[g2]> best compression Dec 20 20:12:28 [g2]: no, lzma gives 30% smaller kernels Dec 20 20:12:28 <[g2]> (generally) best compression Dec 20 20:12:45 gzip has lousy compression Dec 20 20:12:50 <[g2]> that's what makes lzma the best Dec 20 20:13:16 yes, although lzma gives a slight decompression speed penalty (+10%?) Dec 20 20:13:19 <[g2]> right and we're now talking about using lzma instead of gzip for the kernel compressor Dec 20 20:13:26 [g2]: correct Dec 20 20:13:31 time to reboot then :-) Dec 20 20:13:41 <[g2]> one prepends a different uncompressor on the Image Dec 20 20:13:55 <[g2]> and obviously compresses the Image differently Dec 20 20:14:23 * [g2] wonders if lzma can be used with tarballs Dec 20 20:15:12 * mwester_ shudders at the thought of Yet Another CommandLine Option for tar... :) Dec 20 20:15:31 <[g2]> z and j are my friends :) Dec 20 20:16:28 * mwester_ thinks [g2] might consider a larger disk drive ;) Dec 20 20:16:42 * [g2] has 1T+ online Dec 20 20:17:07 <[g2]> mwester_ it's uploading via tiny pipes 30KB/s Dec 20 20:17:24 * mwester_ begins to turn green with envy at the thought of that much loose storage... Dec 20 20:17:37 <[g2]> I just finished pushing a 75MB tarball up the the server Dec 20 20:17:59 I thought you had a T1 line or better? Dec 20 20:18:25 <[g2]> mwester_ I did until a couple months ago. Then I switch to a hosted server Dec 20 20:18:45 <[g2]> the server's got about 5X the BW at about 1/5 the price Dec 20 20:18:52 <[g2]> so it's around a 25X gain Dec 20 20:19:08 <[g2]> the problem is between here and the server Dec 20 20:19:21 <[g2]> but I can now pull at 6Mbs+ :) Dec 20 20:19:58 <[g2]> and if I was pushing from somewhere with a big pipe it could accept that fast too Dec 20 20:28:55 re Dec 20 20:29:52 ~seen tbm Dec 20 20:30:19 tbm was last seen on IRC in channel #nslu2-linux, 269d 6h 14m 51s ago, saying: 'likewise: thanks'. Dec 20 20:30:51 no thanks Dec 20 20:31:11 Now there's someone MIA. Dec 20 20:31:53 no - he's active, just not on nslu2-linux for little while :-) Dec 20 20:31:53 NAiL: the linuxbios for the epia is probably on my... epia itself, which has a external PSU problem (too weak too spin-up drive...) Dec 20 20:33:21 <[g2]> likewise so do you have a lzma kernel decompressor ? Dec 20 20:33:44 * [g2] thinks openwrt has been running one for a year or two Dec 20 20:34:25 [g2]: no, john reiser announced one on oe or nslu2 ml. Dec 20 20:35:03 <[g2]> likewise Ok so you weren't aware of the openwrt one (if it exists) Dec 20 20:35:23 [g2]: no, I have only seen one for MIPS targets. Dec 20 20:35:30 <[g2]> but I'm guessing you'd want to run with lzma compression on the kernel and squash-lzma Dec 20 20:35:59 whereas most of the code is arch independent, the initial boot is arch dependent, so has to call in to the decompressor. Dec 20 20:36:17 [g2]: yes, for optimum flashrom use, that would be nice. Dec 20 20:36:37 h/w change fiddling, rebooting again. Dec 20 21:01:16 re Dec 20 21:01:19 NAiL: http://www.esrac.ele.tue.nl/~leon/linux/ Dec 20 21:03:08 NAiL: ping Dec 20 21:09:07 does anyone run os x here? Dec 20 21:10:14 <[g2]> Jollino a little Dec 20 21:10:31 <[g2]> my Intel Mac mini boots edgy by default Dec 20 21:10:35 [g2]: have you ever experienced VERY slow write performance to a vanilla slug? Dec 20 21:11:32 <[g2]> Jollino I haven't run the slug forever (I've got my own hw for a while), but a long time ago (years) there were a couple issues Dec 20 21:12:00 <[g2]> are you running many apps on it ? Dec 20 21:12:11 on the slug? Dec 20 21:12:13 <[g2]> yeah Dec 20 21:12:18 i just bought it a few hours ago Dec 20 21:12:22 it's running the standard firmware Dec 20 21:12:48 <[g2]> oh you're talking about the standard firmware ? Dec 20 21:12:55 yes Dec 20 21:13:05 that's what i meant by vanilla slug, sorry for not being clearer Dec 20 21:13:16 <[g2]> Ah... np Dec 20 21:13:22 what bothers me is that windows xp (in a virtual machine running in Parallels) works perfectly Dec 20 21:13:31 <[g2]> well I haven't run that in really forever :) like 2.5 years Dec 20 21:14:45 <[g2]> I didn't believe in the linksys firmware 2.5 years ago. I don't have much confidence in it now :) Dec 20 21:14:58 Jollino: not much ppl here using the default firmware, I would guess. Dec 20 21:15:00 lol Dec 20 21:15:11 likewise: i know, but i was just wondering i was lucky. :) Dec 20 21:15:36 i read that os x seems to have problems with samba 2 servers Dec 20 21:15:39 pong Dec 20 21:17:10 NAiL: I uploaded the source tree, which holds my builds inside for Linuxbios-epia. Dec 20 21:17:18 maybe i should go for the unslung firmware, hoping it helps. to downgrade it in case i need to, would i just upload the latest firmware found on linksys' website? Dec 20 21:17:35 likewise: got it Dec 20 21:17:47 NAiL: the FILO bootloader which is embedded in linuxbios, is from the 0.4.2 source tree (just verified that using md5) Dec 20 21:18:58 NAiL: I should probably re-do the whole build from scratch and make notes. Dec 20 21:21:57 NAiL: the binary to flash into ROM is in: linuxbios/targets/via/epia-m/epia-m/*.bin Dec 20 21:22:30 NAiL: linuxbios.rom for the standard ROM. double.rom for a double-sized ROM. Dec 20 21:23:19 thanks Dec 20 21:23:31 what's up with the vga-bios stuff. Is it embedded in the bios rom? Dec 20 21:23:59 NAiL: but the bootloader has a hardcoded kernel argument list: it loads "hda1:/vmlinuz" and uses "root=/dev/hda1 console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200" Dec 20 21:24:26 vga-bios: yes, the vga bios was extracted from the proprietary VIA BIOS. Dec 20 21:24:53 NAiL: this bootloader setting was set in filo-0.4.2/defconfig (see the top) Dec 20 21:25:23 well, it's the correct partition Dec 20 21:25:30 so it doesn't matter Dec 20 21:25:38 and it runs headless, so that's a good cmdline Dec 20 21:26:14 NAiL: Also, you might want to find an Ethernet card which can be used program the FlashROMs in (although I always did it by hot-swapping the flashROM while the epia was running linux) Dec 20 21:26:28 s/used program/used to program/ Dec 20 21:26:29 likewise meant: NAiL: Also, you might want to find an Ethernet card which can be used to program the FlashROMs in (although I always did it by hot-swapping the flashROM while the epia was running linux) Dec 20 21:26:35 I've hotswapped a couple of times before Dec 20 21:26:42 ok, good :-) Dec 20 21:26:52 although though that was larger chips Dec 20 21:26:56 brb Dec 20 21:27:03 k Dec 20 21:35:34 likewise: Is there any difference in boot speed? Dec 20 21:35:57 NAiL: only 2 seconds before the Linux kernel Dec 20 21:36:03 ooh, nice Dec 20 21:36:19 NAiL: yup, and that's with serial debugging enabled (slowing the LinuxBIOS down a bit) Dec 20 21:36:41 well, I guess I could disable that later on when I'm familiar with it Dec 20 21:36:49 haven't touched linuxbios for like... five year Dec 20 21:36:50 s Dec 20 21:37:04 Ran it on a dell poweredge 2450 (iirc) Dec 20 21:37:20 NAiL: I would like to use LinuxBIOS on more x86 platforms, but it's very dependent on the motherboard chipset etc. Dec 20 21:37:45 yeah, I've noticed Dec 20 21:37:49 shame actualy Dec 20 21:38:18 NAiL: yup, only one mb maker seems to actively support it, cannot remember the name though (Tiger something?) Dec 20 21:38:28 Tyan Dec 20 21:38:31 probably Dec 20 21:38:34 duh, yes Dec 20 21:38:40 I had a Tyan Tiger mobo earlier Dec 20 21:38:44 "sounds like" :-) Dec 20 21:39:01 dual pIII. Shame I broke it before I could run linuxbios on it ;) Dec 20 21:39:09 :-/ Dec 20 21:40:20 Anyway, I'll be testing it during christmas I guess Dec 20 21:40:27 thanks for the bios Dec 20 21:40:37 I'll let you know what I end up with Dec 20 21:41:38 Time for bed Dec 20 21:41:41 nite all Dec 20 21:41:53 nite! Dec 20 21:49:56 <[g2]> nite Dec 20 22:01:15 nite [g2] Dec 20 22:01:24 euh, never mind Dec 20 22:01:41 that probably was a reaction to NAiL... :-) Dec 20 22:05:14 03bzhou * r4773 10optware/trunk/make/srelay.mk: added srelay Dec 20 22:18:41 03bzhou * r4774 10optware/trunk/ (Makefile make/srelay.mk): promoted srelay Dec 21 00:13:40 03oleo * r4775 10optware/trunk/ (19 files in 3 dirs): ipkg-opt: rename from ipkg to allow system and optware ipkg packages coexist - added patch to reenable list_installed functionality Dec 21 00:23:16 03oleo * r4776 10optware/trunk/Makefile: optware: rename package ipkg to ipkg-opt **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 21 03:00:03 2006