**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 17 03:00:00 2012
Nov 17 12:24:15 <eren> hello folks
Nov 17 19:16:15 <alexandernst> I'm thinking in using Yocto (or maybe some other distro?) with my Tiny6410, but I'm not sure if the components are supported. I had a look at Yocto's FAQ but I didn't see any "Supported devices" section. Any ideas if my device is supported or where can I see if it is supported?
Nov 17 19:58:25 <eren> alexandernst: there doesn't seem to be a specific feature that needs to be supporded. I'm referring to this page: http://www.friendlyarm.net/products/tiny6410
Nov 17 19:59:32 <alexandernst> eren: I'm afraid the CMOS (OV9650) isn't working with gstreamer at all
Nov 17 19:59:44 <alexandernst> I'm getting a segfault each time I try to acces the CMOS module with v4l2
Nov 17 20:00:03 <eren> alexandernst: what do you use right now?
Nov 17 20:00:17 <alexandernst> the kernel provided by FriendlyARM
Nov 17 20:00:43 <alexandernst> 2.6.38, last updated september 2012
Nov 17 20:01:26 <eren> Yocto is basically set of tools, a build system (bitbake), lots of recipes to get you working easily 
Nov 17 20:01:59 <alexandernst> oh, so no need for Yocto, I have a scratchbox2 + CodeSourcery already setup and building kernels fine
Nov 17 20:02:44 <eren> usually, vendors provide their own configurations, patches using yocto's layered architecture. All you need to is to include this layer and add whichever packages to your image and build
Nov 17 20:03:06 <eren> what you will gain is to the possibility of creating your image for different architectures, boards, etc easily
Nov 17 20:03:50 <eren> if you create a working system and need to run it on different board, you will typically just change a few config variables and build :)
Nov 17 20:04:06 <alexandernst> all that is pretty much useless for me. I just want the CMOS to work with gstreamer 
Nov 17 20:04:20 <alexandernst> on my board
Nov 17 20:04:46 <alexandernst> As in -> I won't change the board, nor any other components, so I just need to get one kernel running fine and don't touch it ever again
Nov 17 20:09:12 <eren> alexandernst: I'm checking if there are people using openembedded on your board
Nov 17 20:10:15 <alexandernst> thank you :)
Nov 17 20:14:36 <eren> alexandernst: there doesn't seem to be official support by your vendor :( at least, I couldn't find a reference. Changing your build system just for a CMOS problem doesn't seem to be optimal. I don't think that Yocto or OE has a special fix for your hardware
Nov 17 20:15:06 <eren> alexandernst: I'm speaking based on google, btw. I highly recommend you to send an email to mailing list
Nov 17 20:15:16 <alexandernst> eren: :(
Nov 17 20:15:19 <alexandernst> to what ML?
Nov 17 20:15:52 <eren> alexandernst: http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
Nov 17 20:16:37 <alexandernst> ah, ok. So you mean the OV9650 isn't supported by FriendlyARM?
Nov 17 20:17:09 <eren> alexandernst: no, I don't mean that
Nov 17 20:17:28 <eren> alexandernst: I'm just saying that I failed to see openembedded related work by FriendlyARM
Nov 17 20:17:39 <alexandernst> aaah, ok. I get it
Nov 17 20:18:44 <eren> openembedded (or yocto) provides tools, build system, set of packages, image building routes, etc to make embedded development easier. Usually, vendors provide their layer so that people can easily build image using their platform. Examples are TI, Gumstix etc
Nov 17 20:18:52 <eren> s/routes/routines/
Nov 17 20:19:26 <eren> alexandernst: I failed to see FriendlyARM showing their support for openembedded :)
Nov 17 20:19:37 <eren> based on google searches, of course
Nov 17 20:20:39 <alexandernst> yeah, I really don't think they support anything at all. Their software support as general sucks
Nov 17 20:21:33 <eren> in that case, you may not prefer switching to another build system. OpenEmbedded will just have newer kernel 3.2+ though
Nov 17 20:22:23 <eren> alexandernst: are we clear on what openembedded is?
Nov 17 20:22:46 <alexandernst> yes :)
Nov 17 20:22:52 <eren> okkie :)
Nov 17 20:23:02 <alexandernst> I'm thinking if switching will get me any pros
Nov 17 20:23:56 <eren> well, at least you will get tons of packages maintained well, just ready to be included to your image
Nov 17 20:25:33 <alexandernst> I guess that's a pro, it's just I really don't care about any packages apart from gstreamer (which I already have, built with my super-written-in-10-mins-bash-script :p)
Nov 17 20:26:02 <eren> well, ugly hack :P
Nov 17 20:26:17 <alexandernst> also, I don't care about any updates, as the device, once finished developing for it, won't get any updates at all
Nov 17 20:27:45 <eren> well, even if it won't get updates, having a decent build system and a good community would surely help in future. Of course, that's your choice :)
Nov 17 20:28:29 <alexandernst> there's no *feature* :P I just want to finish writing that software and forget about the device and everything related to it :D
Nov 17 20:28:39 <eren> haha
Nov 17 20:28:43 <alexandernst> :P
Nov 17 20:29:30 <eren> I would recommend debugging with gstreamer guys :) I sense that you may also need to do a bit digging on kernel
Nov 17 20:29:51 <alexandernst> well, it's just the driver that causing me all that headache :(
Nov 17 20:30:08 <eren> provded by friendlyarm?
Nov 17 20:30:17 <eren> they don't seem to be friendly after all :P
Nov 17 20:30:28 <alexandernst> The software is running just fine, in fact, if I plug a USB webcam to the device everything runs fine. it's just that OV9650 CMOS module that's turning my life into a hell
Nov 17 20:30:48 <alexandernst> no, provided by me :p I wrote the entire app (apps)
Nov 17 20:31:05 <alexandernst> oh, you mean the dirver? Yes, provided by FriendlyARM
Nov 17 20:31:18 <eren> alexandernst: yes I mean the driver
Nov 17 20:31:24 <alexandernst> A guy from #v4l had a look at the driver; he said it's a real crap
Nov 17 20:31:56 <eren> and it's sad that the only reference on OV9650 is your post on friendlyarm forums
Nov 17 20:31:57 <eren> :\
Nov 17 20:32:19 <alexandernst> it's even more sad that I got 0 replies :P
Nov 17 20:32:44 <eren> :(
Nov 17 20:32:52 <eren> alexandernst: call FriendlyARM and curse them
Nov 17 20:33:15 <eren> its their drivers, they should fix it, right?
Nov 17 20:33:18 <alexandernst> well, I should learn Chinese first.
Nov 17 20:33:38 <eren> oh
Nov 17 20:34:00 <eren> is the source available?
Nov 17 20:34:09 <eren> I mean, what's the status of the driver in the kernel
Nov 17 20:34:18 <alexandernst> well... yes, they should. But the end-date for the project was 5 days ago, so I must make the board work no matter how
Nov 17 20:34:40 <alexandernst> yeah, there is a source, but as I said, a guy from #v4l had a look at it and said it's horrible. 
Nov 17 20:35:15 <alexandernst> +that driver isn't really part of the kernel itself, but just a small piece of shitty code that somebody in FriendlyARM wrote and patched the kernel with it 
Nov 17 20:35:48 <alexandernst> (and that's why I'm almost-stuck with their 2.6.38 kernel instead of any other kernel)
Nov 17 20:36:00 <eren> oh, a kernel provided by friendlyarm with a piece of buggy driver :\
Nov 17 20:36:07 <alexandernst> yeah 
Nov 17 20:36:15 <alexandernst> so, I'm pretty much screwed 
Nov 17 20:36:43 <alexandernst> It's also the last time I get a project like that! Next time my boss ask me about a similar project I'll suicide :D
Nov 17 20:36:51 <alexandernst> or maybe just change job...
Nov 17 20:37:20 <eren> or choose a well supported board
Nov 17 20:37:24 <eren> :)
Nov 17 20:37:34 <alexandernst> yes, that's another option. :)
Nov 17 20:38:12 <eren> alexandernst: how is aMSN EFL branch is going?
Nov 17 20:38:20 <alexandernst> hmmm
Nov 17 20:38:24 <alexandernst> untouched :P
Nov 17 20:38:34 <alexandernst> for at least 1 year
Nov 17 20:38:35 <eren> you're stuck with tcl then
Nov 17 20:38:41 <eren> :(
Nov 17 20:38:42 <alexandernst> yes :(
Nov 17 20:38:58 <alexandernst> not that we want to, but you know... real life... no free time...
Nov 17 20:39:05 <eren> yeah I get it
Nov 17 20:39:19 <eren> isn't MSN dying btw?
Nov 17 20:39:30 <eren> the last time I used it was 6 years ago
Nov 17 20:39:46 <alexandernst> we had a talk at this year's GUADEC about aMSN2, we all want it, but nobody has any free time :(
Nov 17 20:39:51 <alexandernst> yes, kind of.
Nov 17 20:40:02 <eren> we have Skype, gtalk, even scary facebook
Nov 17 20:40:12 <alexandernst> M$ is switching to Skype, but there are 2 possible ways for that
Nov 17 20:40:16 <eren> it will die like ICQ
Nov 17 20:40:21 <eren> and we will say RIP
Nov 17 20:40:33 <eren> have the "new message" sound on our phones
Nov 17 20:40:34 <alexandernst> a) they just stop providing WLM (the app that everybody uses to login in MSN)
Nov 17 20:40:34 <eren> :)
Nov 17 20:40:35 <alexandernst> or
Nov 17 20:40:46 <alexandernst> b) shutdown MSNP (the protocol) after migrating all accounts to Skype
Nov 17 20:41:01 <alexandernst> if b) happens, aMSN will keep living :)
Nov 17 20:41:19 <eren> how?
Nov 17 20:41:42 <eren> what does shutting down protocol mean? :)
Nov 17 20:41:49 <alexandernst> because MSNP will be alive (means, MSNP servers won't shutdown and Skype will do both protos)
Nov 17 20:41:59 <eren> ah okkie
Nov 17 20:42:02 <alexandernst> :)
Nov 17 20:42:28 <alexandernst> right now Skype is doing both protos (you can see it with wireshark when chatting witha  friend from MSN via Skype)
Nov 17 20:42:48 <alexandernst> question is... will that remain this way or everything will be switched to Skype proto?
Nov 17 20:43:55 <eren> it's microsoft, no one can answer
Nov 17 20:44:08 <alexandernst> x)
Nov 17 20:45:18 <eren> alexandernst: go out, get some fresh air, drink beer and start digging v4l mailing lists :)
Nov 17 20:45:28 <alexandernst> I think I'll go for pengutronix (kernel 3.1, support for mini6410, which is almost the same as tiny6410)
Nov 17 20:45:56 <alexandernst> the same guy from v4l is writing a patch for the ov9650 and the s3c6410 soc, so... 
Nov 17 20:45:59 <eren> alexandernst: are there any special drivers for your CMOS?
Nov 17 20:46:17 <eren> on pengutronix
Nov 17 20:46:22 <alexandernst> the only driver available is the one provided with the FriendlyARM kernel
Nov 17 20:46:47 <alexandernst> pengu doesn't have any, but backporting the patch that the guy from v4l is writing to 3.1 will be easier than backporting it to 2.6.38
Nov 17 20:47:07 <alexandernst> also I'm not sure how patched is the friendlyarm kernel. It seems really durty IMHO
Nov 17 20:48:36 <eren> then you can use whatever build system you want since it's a kernel driver problem :)
Nov 17 20:48:53 <alexandernst> yup
Nov 17 20:49:17 <alexandernst> I'll stick with the scratchbox2 + CodeSourcery
Nov 17 20:49:30 <eren> alexandernst: what are you doing with that board btw? (if it's not private)
Nov 17 20:49:50 <eren> I guess the board usually runs android
Nov 17 20:49:50 <alexandernst> eren: no, ofc no :)
Nov 17 20:50:05 <eren> some kind of telephony?
Nov 17 20:50:08 <alexandernst> I'm writing a VOIP software based on gstreamer and farstream
Nov 17 20:50:18 <eren> ah
Nov 17 20:50:20 <alexandernst> yes, not to hard to find out I guess :P
Nov 17 20:50:31 <alexandernst> Googling what I do... xD
Nov 17 20:50:42 <eren> well, I didn't
Nov 17 20:50:44 <eren> :P
Nov 17 20:50:46 <alexandernst> :P
Nov 17 20:51:32 <alexandernst> I also had to write some basic examples, as in "show what the CMOS *sees* on the screen (framebuffer, no X)" or "record to the hdd"
Nov 17 20:51:43 <alexandernst> and also a basic streaming client 
Nov 17 20:52:16 <eren> beware to not link against ffmpeg if you will close the source :)
Nov 17 20:52:46 <eren> the biggest ISP here had to open the codes of their first version of SIP client
Nov 17 20:52:53 <alexandernst> oh, no, the code will be open. It's just that I'm not too sure how people will get it :s
Nov 17 20:53:06 <alexandernst> where is "here"? :s
Nov 17 20:53:48 <eren> the linked against ffmpeg, but they did not actually use it. Some guy noticed that they were linked against ffmpeg and reported it. The name of the ISP was written in "wall of shame" in ffmpeg webpage
Nov 17 20:53:50 <eren> alexandernst: Turkey
Nov 17 20:53:57 <eren> they linked*
Nov 17 20:54:10 <alexandernst> lol @ISP
Nov 17 20:54:31 <eren> they opened the code which they linked, with all the build scripts etc :)
Nov 17 20:54:50 <alexandernst> anyways, the software will run on just a few devices, and users won't be able to touch anything but the start/end buttons (that's not even software, but hardware buttons)
Nov 17 20:56:18 <eren> oh, okie
Nov 17 20:57:36 <eren> alexandernst: I wish good luck for you
Nov 17 20:57:55 <alexandernst> eren: Thank you :D I'll need it
Nov 17 20:58:20 <eren> btw, last off-topic thing
Nov 17 20:58:29 <alexandernst> it making me really sad see how I'm delaying the entire project just because FriendlyARM failed at writing proper drivers :(
Nov 17 20:58:35 <alexandernst> :p
Nov 17 20:58:43 <eren> why on earth do I see "unknown number" when calling my cell via skype
Nov 17 20:58:43 <alexandernst> never say "never" or "last" 
Nov 17 20:59:24 <alexandernst> well, what do you expect to see? Your skype account? :p </joke>
Nov 17 20:59:32 <eren> haha
Nov 17 20:59:55 <alexandernst> it's basically because a server is calling you, via GSM (replace with the network your OP is providing)
Nov 17 21:00:21 <alexandernst> it's like all those one-way numbers in some companies
Nov 17 21:00:57 <eren> at least I expect to see a trunk line. When called, I would expect "this is a skype service, etc.."
Nov 17 21:01:20 <alexandernst> For example, if you call 911 (which is USA's police) you'r not calling a single phone. You're calling a ... *thingy* that will redirect the call to the closest to your location police phone number 
Nov 17 21:01:33 <eren> I normally do not respond to unknown numbers
Nov 17 21:01:54 <alexandernst> I'm not too sure how GSM works, but AFAIK it doesn't supoprt non-number IDs
Nov 17 21:02:09 <eren> alexandernst: yeah, what's that "thingy" called?
Nov 17 21:02:12 <alexandernst> so, at most you could be able to *trick* GSM and make it send random numbers
Nov 17 21:02:26 <alexandernst> a "central" maybe?
Nov 17 21:02:32 <alexandernst> 1sec, I'll tell you the proper name
Nov 17 21:03:17 <alexandernst> a switchboard maybe?
Nov 17 21:03:23 <eren> I guess so
Nov 17 21:03:58 <eren> the good think with skype is that I was able to call US toll free number from Turkey
Nov 17 21:04:06 <eren> I didn't pay anything :)
Nov 17 21:04:07 <alexandernst> :D
Nov 17 21:04:31 <alexandernst> I never liked skype, but I guess it's because I never liked any IM 
Nov 17 21:04:40 <alexandernst> except IRC and MSN
Nov 17 21:04:48 <alexandernst> well... Just IRC at first
Nov 17 21:05:05 <eren> started with mIRC? Khaled Mardam-Bey?
Nov 17 21:05:07 <eren> :P
Nov 17 21:05:26 <alexandernst> but then I started using MSN because all my friend did, and I felt the need to contribute to aMSN (which was the client I was using), so I ended up liking it :)
Nov 17 21:05:57 <alexandernst> nop, started with quassel and konversation
Nov 17 21:06:06 <alexandernst> Isn't mIRC windows only?
Nov 17 21:06:17 <eren> yeah, windows only
Nov 17 21:06:25 <eren> I started with it
Nov 17 21:06:30 <alexandernst> I haven't touched a windows machine in years :P
Nov 17 21:06:46 <alexandernst> 9 or 10 years maybe
Nov 17 21:06:46 <eren> me neither, I was a child at these days :P
Nov 17 21:06:51 <eren> 6 years here
Nov 17 21:06:57 <alexandernst> aah :)
Nov 17 21:07:14 <alexandernst> I wasn't using anything but the movies-player on windows 10 years ago
Nov 17 21:07:24 <alexandernst> the pc was a huge movies-machine :D
Nov 17 21:07:32 <alexandernst> maybe games-machine too 
Nov 17 21:07:44 <eren> no, I mean 7 years since windows-free 
Nov 17 21:07:47 <eren> not 6
Nov 17 21:07:58 <alexandernst> :)
Nov 17 21:07:59 <eren> I'm really happy with my linux and mac
Nov 17 21:08:06 <alexandernst> aaahh, mac
Nov 17 21:08:19 <alexandernst> #pain
Nov 17 21:08:37 <eren> yeah, I'm using it like a BSD distribution, vim, tmux, weechat, mutt, zsh :)
Nov 17 21:09:02 <eren> the hardware is quite good, I like the lightness, keyboard and lcd
Nov 17 21:10:48 <eren> font rendering is way better
Nov 18 02:37:05 <dFence> hey guys!
Nov 18 02:38:25 <dFence> Here's my scenario: I have a Kernel, which contains modifications for Android PLUS some manufacturer-voodoo; is there a way to extract the Android-modifications? In the end, I'd like a vanilla kernel with only the vendor/device specific patches
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 18 02:59:58 2012